위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive1041
Wikipedia:역량
| 스펜서에 의해 24시간 동안 IP가 차단되었다.판다케콕9 (대화) 02:13, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
190.86.168.35는 그들이 편집하고 있는 자료를 이해하지 못한다(중간지진을 매우 큰지진으로 변경).물질과학자가 몇 주 전에 이 사람을 막으려 했지만 나는 무심코 한 달 동안 차단당했다.새벽시커2000 18:07, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
엠파이어 AS의 파괴적 편집
Empire AS는 WP:RS, WP:BLP 및 WP:Atif Aslam, Pachtaoge와 같은 기사에 대한 CASPIVO.
엠파이어 AS는 우선 능력 문제가 있다.그는 카피비오[1][2][3]에 대해 충분히 경고했지만 아무것도 배우지 못했다.24시간 만에 4번의 리턴(WP:3RRR 참조)을 한 그는 먼저 노골적인 WP를 복원하기 위해 워렌을 편집했다.링크비오[4][5][6] 이제 그는 자신의 WP를 소싱하기 위해 유튜브와 트위터 트렌드에 의존하고 있다.RGW 기반 진술.[7] शिवव///Shiv Sahil (대화) 02:44, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
아티프 애슬람에게 내용을 추가했는데, 당신이 그 내용을 삭제한 건 공급되지 않았기 때문이야.나는 너의 편집을 되돌리고 그 섹션에 참조를 추가했다.마찬가지로 파흐타오게는 믿을 만한 출처가 있었다.누군가가 그것을 제거했고 나는 그 편집을 되돌렸다.하지만 다시 한번, 당신은 내 편집을 되돌렸다.나는 어떤 편집 전쟁도 원하지 않았다.그러므로 나는 당신의 편집을 되돌리지 않고 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 가지고 다시 진정한 정보를 추가했다.하지만 당신은 그것을 다시 되돌렸고 심지어 참고문헌도 보지 못했다.매번, 당신은 믿을만한 인용구로부터 올바른 정보를 담은 내 편집 내용을 되돌렸다.당신은 또한 편집 와르에도 관여했다.[8] 주요 기사 내용을 삭제하지 않도록 주의하십시오.[9] 당신은 단 15시간 만에 파흐타오지에서 3번의 반격을 했다.[10][11][12].Atif Aslam[13][14][15]에서 2회 리턴을 하고 신뢰할 수 있는 소스를 포함하는 Atif Aslam에서 "노래 스타일, 영향 및 인식"의 전체 부분을 제거했는데, 이는 중립적인 관점을 사용하지 않는다는 것을 보여준다.[16] 소누 니감에서 주요 내용을 삭제한 것과 같다.[17]AS 수신 (대화) 05:21, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
단일 목적 편집기에서 중단 편집: Julie Passas
| (비관리자 폐쇄) 무한 부분 블록.El C는 사용자가 자신을 더 잘 설명하고 전쟁 편집을 중단할 수 있다면 차단 해제도 고려할 용의가 있다.다크나이트2149 08:22, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
Julie Passas(토크 · 기여)는 단일 목적 계정이며, 그녀의 유일한 편집은 닉 아담스(코멘터)로부터 지속적으로 컨텐츠를 제거하는 것이다(토크 히스토리 편집은 로그 보기 링크 삭제 보호).그녀는 두 번 차단되었다.그녀는 오늘 두 번의 경고를 받았다[18].LibStar (토크) 01:34, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 AIV에 보고서를 제출했고, 그래서 우리는 아마도 이것을 사용자의 일부가 차단된 것으로 보아, 우리는 이것을 모토로 닫을 수 있을 것이다.Jusdafax (대화) 01:39, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
무한정 차단됨.부분 블록.이 보고서에 따르면.만약 그녀가 전쟁 편집을 중단하고 기사 토크 페이지에서 자신을 설명하기 시작하겠다고 약속한다면, 그녀는 차단되지 않을 수도 있다.El_C 01:45, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
প্রসেনজিৎ পাল
প্রসেনজিৎ পাল (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar에서는 lade와 info 박스에 라벨을 포함시키는 것을 놓고 약간의 편집 전쟁이 있었다(정확히 말하면 "철학자", "작곡자" 그리고 "작곡자").
문제는 사용자가 자신이 옳다고 주장하고 있으며, 일부 허름한 출처(일부는 본문을 백업하지도 않는 것 같다)에 의존하고 있다는 점이다.게다가 (확실히 하기 위한 정책을 위반하는 것은 아니지만) 그들의 영어는 그다지 좋지 않으며, 나는 그들이 생각하는 의미에 맞지 않는 말을 하고 있을 수도 있다고 생각한다(또는 그들은 의미심장하게 생각하고 있으며 아주 이상한 주장을 하고 있다).그들은 또한 SPA인 것처럼 보이고 (대부분은) 여기에 있지 않은 것 같다. 또한 듣지 않는 것(또는 그들은 단지 무슨 말을 하는지 이해하지 못하는 것일 수도 있다.)슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:54, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이 편집자가 프라바트 란잔 사르카르에서 무엇을 하고 있든지 간에 이것은 분명히 SPA나 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 사람이 아니다.편집자는 세계 최고의 문학인 중 한 명인 라빈드라나트 타고레의 작품에 대한 많은 기사를 쓰기 시작했는데, 이 작품들은 부끄러운 듯 삭제 후보로 지명되었다.필 브리저 (대화) 2020년 6월 29일 16:09 (UTC)[
- 나는 거기서 정정해졌지만, 그것은 그의 시간을 엄청나게 잡아먹었다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:18, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 아멘, 필 브리저어쨌든 jps가 제3의 의견을 자원한 것으로 알고 있으니, 그들의 선례를 따르자.이 사건은 조기에 보고되었을 수 있다(WP:3O 항상 옵션).다른 곳에서 선의를 얻은 사람은 비록 그들이 완전히 일관되지 않더라도 최소한 그것을 받을 자격이 있어야 한다(그 일관성이 난해한 문제로 이어지는 패턴을 형성하지 않는 한).El_C 16:33, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 지난 며칠 동안.하지만 그들의 역사가 진행되는 동안 그들은 여러 번 초점을 바꾸었고, 주어진 기사에 며칠을 보냈다.이 기사는 사실 그의 시간을 비교했을 때 그렇게 많이 차지하지는 않았다.확실히 SPA는 아니고, 백과사전을 만들려고 온 것 같아.나는 이것이 콘텐츠 분쟁이고 분쟁 해결 과정이 먼저 뒤따라야 한다고 생각한다.그들은 반응하고 당신과 대화하는 데 관여한다.정책과 관련하여 그들의 주장 중 일부는 대단하지 않을 수도 있지만 그것은 개선될 수 있는 것이다.ANI에 이 일을 가져오기 전에 해야 할 일이 6가지 더 있다고 생각한다. 미루는 독자 (대화) 16:41, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 거기서 정정해졌지만, 그것은 그의 시간을 엄청나게 잡아먹었다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:18, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
BeamAlexander25에 의한 최근 변경사항
| 우리는 일단 BA의 자해책을 시도할 것이다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 14분 40초, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
BeamAlexander25(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 최근 변경사항 순찰에 참여하지만 불행히도 새로운/IP 사용자들의 편집에 방해가 될 수 있는 정기적인 실수를 저지르고 있다(오늘의 두 가지 예: [19] & [20]).그들은 그들의 토크 페이지에서 몇몇 사용자들로부터 단지 소싱이 누락된 선의의 편집이 아니라 공공 기물 파손으로 보고된 편집이 실제로 프로젝트에 지장을 주는지 속도를 늦추고 확실히 해야 한다는 말을 들었다. 그러나 그들은 계속해서 이것을 하고 있다(오늘 [21]).문제를 여기에 제기한다는 측면에서 낙타의 등을 부러뜨린 빨대였다.)나는 그들이 어리고 제2외국어로 영어를 가지고 있다고 의심하지만, 이 시점에서 그들은 그들의 파괴적인 순찰 행동에 대해 많은 피드백을 받아왔고, 그것을 계속 해오고 있는 이 시점에서, 더 넓은 지역 사회의 검토를 위해 여기서 토의할 가치가 있을 것이다.오카리나오프타임 (토크) 19:55, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 우연히 BA25의 페이지에서 토론하는 것을 보고, 그가 계속 같은 방식으로 되돌아간다면 내가 막겠다고 말했다.그는 내가 왜 그의 롤백 요청을 거절했느냐고 대답했을 뿐이어서, 그가 이해했는지 확실하지 않다.유감스럽게도 이것은 완전한 CIR 사건이다. 아마도 언어의 어려움 때문일 것이다.오늘 밤은 이만 끊어야겠어.내가 일어나기 전에 CIR 블록이 필요할지도 몰라비쇼넨 tålk 20:05, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)
- 나는 이 문제에 대해 내가 해야 할 말을 대부분 그들의 토크 페이지에 다 썼지만, 모든 사람들을 위해 여기서 요약하겠다.나는 오늘 아침 내가 직접 최근의 변화를 보고 있었는데, BeamAlexander25가 유럽 학교(역사)에서 109.87.48.66의 편집 내용을 되돌린 것을 발견했다.109.87.48.66은 편집 요약 없이 상당량의 내용을 제거하여 BeamAlexander25([22]로 시작)에 의해 되돌리기를 유발했지만, 이후 109.87.48.66은 기사의 토크 페이지와 사용자 토크 페이지 모두에서 새로운 기사로 내용을 나누는 것의 일부임을 명확히 했다.이러한 오해를 풀려는 나의 시도에도 불구하고, 그리고 이것은 분명히 반달리즘이 아니라는 것(또한 109.87.48.66이 이전에 기사를 작업해 온 것에 주목한다)에도 불구하고, BeamAlexander25는 109.87.48.66의 토크 페이지 [25]와 나의 편집 요약본(그들의 목적과 선의는 명확하지 않기 때문에 편집본을 복원했다)과 r26]에 대한 나의 응답을 모두 무시했다.나의 편집을 마치 공공 기물 파손인 것처럼 하고 나의 토크 페이지 [27][28]에 템플릿 경고를 남겼다.그들은 1분 후에 기사에서 자기반복했지만(분명히 이 실수를 깨달았다), 내가 나중에 그들의 토크 페이지[29]에 남긴 개인적인 쪽지에 대해 아무런 반응을 보이지 않았다.나는 이러한 편집이 공공 기물 파손이 아니라는 것을 설명하기 위해 할 수 있는 일을 했고, 다른 사용자들도 비슷한 우려를 제기했으며(이 ANI 토론에서), 그들과 그 문제를 토론하겠다고 제안했지만, 이전 사용자들의 시도와 마찬가지로 실패에 직면했다.다행히 이 IP는 겁먹지 않았지만, AIV[30]에서 보고되기 전에는 결코 공공 기물 파손이 아닌 편집에 대한 4단계 경고에 도달하지 않았다.
- 나의 더 큰 걱정은 BeMalexander25가 그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 메시지에 응답하지 않고, 그 후에도 똑같은 의심스러운 행동을 계속하고 있다는 것이다.섣부른 되돌리기(즉, 편집 내용을 면밀히 검토하지 않아 잘못 분류하는 것)도 문제지만, 새로운 편집자들에게는 드물지 않지만, 편집이 되돌리거나 사용자가 편집한 사용자와 효과적으로 의사소통할 수 없거나 원하지 않는 경우(이것은 또한 정규 편집자를 템플리트화하지 않는다는 것을 의미함) 최근의 변경에 손을 대서는 안 된다.누가 실수를 강조하느냐는 것이다.최근 변화의 안팎을 시간이 지남에 따라 순찰하는 것은 가능하지만, 개방적이고 효과적인 의사소통이 없이는 가능하지 않다.ComplexRational (대화) 20:19, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 그들의 겉보기에는 영어가 서툴러서, 나는 그들이 '최근의 변화들'을 순찰하지 말아야 한다고 확신할 수
없다. (하지만 나는 지금 잠자리에 들었고, 나는 내일 여기를 돌아볼 것이다.)보잉! 제베디(토크) 21:00, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[ - 이것은 악기의 법칙의 나쁜 경우처럼 보인다.BA는 WP를 가지고 있다.트윙클 & WP:RedWarn은 영어에 대한 확고한 숙달 없이도, 그리고 그 결핍을 드러내지 않고도 사용할 수 있다.BA가 이러한 도구를 사용할 수 있고 그들이 무엇을 하고 있는지 또는 왜 하는지 이해하지 못하는 한, 그들은 WP이다.CIR-온-스테로이드.카바이 (대화) 21:36, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- WP: 의사소통이 필요하다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 22분 48초, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 사건이 다시 일어난 것이 아니라 위키피디아의 모든 정책을 읽고 있다. 나는 조심스럽게 패트롤을 할 수 있다고 약속하고 WP를 따른다.CIR, WP:커뮤니케이트 등, 하지만 일부 반전은 실수하고 있다. -BEAMALEXANDER25, 토크 16:07, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- WP:CIR은 가끔 필요한 악을 쓰기도 하지만 항상 나를 기분 나쁘게 만드는 것이다.나는 여기에 좋은 의도가 있다고 생각하지만, 언어 장벽과 결합된 지식과 정책의 부족은 그들의 최고의 의도와 위의 진술에도 불구하고 문제를 일으킬 가능성이 있다.내 견해는 블록/밴이 징벌적이어서는 안 된다는 것이고, 비록 블록/밴은 필요할지 모르지만, 우리가 그것들을 피할 수 있고 여전히 문제를 해결할 수 있다면, 나는 그것이 좋은 결과가 될 것이라고 생각한다.나는 BeamAlexander25가 명백한 공공 기물 파괴 행위만을 고집한다면(대부분의 설명되지 않은 공백, 경멸적인 내용 추가, 그리고 절대 헛소리) 그것은 실수를 할 여지가 적고 그 사이에 적절한 해결책이라고 생각한다.천천히 하자는 제안이 도움이 될 수 있다는 얘기다.일부 논평에 대한 그의 응답이 없는 이유는 비록 이것이 WP: 커뮤니케이션이 요구된다는 사실을 바꾸지는 않지만, 반드시 서투른 행동이 아니라, 아마도 (언어 장벽 때문에) 말하고 있는 것에 대한 이해가 부족하기 때문이라고 생각한다.그렇지 않다면, 그들이 다른 분야에 기여하기를 원하는 경우에 반반달리즘 순찰 금지가 적용될 수 있을 것이다.나는 그러한 금지가 지켜지지 않는 한 사이트 블록은 고려되어서는 안 된다고 생각한다.마지막으로, BeamAlexander25가 그들이 루손 출신이라고 그들의 프로필에 명시되어 있는 것을 보면, https://tl.wikipedia.org도 그들 또한 관심을 가질 수 있다.미루는 Reader (대화) 16:27, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 비록 이 단계에서는 (몇 명이 염두에 두고) 최소한 Twinkle이나 Redwarn과 같은 반자동 역회전 도구의 사용을 금지할 것을 제안하고 싶다(그리고 논리 b도 알 수 있다).반유대적이든 반유대적이든 반유대주의 순찰에 대한 전면적인 금지를 원하는 사람들.오카리나오프타임 (토크) 16:33, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- OkarinaOfTime, 인정하건대 CIR에 관해서는 내 판단이 다소 약하다.때로는 이런 일이 다시 일어날 것이라는 것을 직감적으로 알더라도, 공동체나 그들이 좋아하는 지역에서 누군가를 배제하는 것(성실한 행동을 하는 것)을 지지하는 것은 어렵다는 것을 알게 된다.
- 그럼에도 불구하고, 나는 당신의 견해와 현 단계에서 금지의 필요성을 본다. 왜냐하면 이것은 새로운 편집자들을 외면할 것이기 때문이다.반반달리즘은 분명히 그들이 열정적인 것이기 때문에 아마도 받아들일 수 있는 선택사항은 그들이 WP에 가입할 경우 제한된 반반달리즘 작업/도구 사용이 허용된다는 것일 것이다.CVUA를 찾아 적합한 트레이너를 찾고, 졸업하면 금지는 끝난다.나는 그것이 그들이 반반민주의나 관련 정책에 대해 더 많이 배울 수 있는 방법이라고 생각하고, 앞으로 그들이 그 지역으로 돌아갈 수 있기를 희망한다.늑장부리는 Reader (대화) 16:58, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 조심스럽고 신중한 반응에 감사하지만, 결국 필요한 반응이다.기고가 거의 없거나 전혀 없는 편집자들의 희생양이 되어 위키피디아에 나오는 모습을 삭제하는 짜릿함 때문에, 나는 그러한 무언가가, 특히 noobb가 어떻게 아픈지 너무나 잘 알고 있다.다들 정신 차리지 않고 따라오길 잘했네.고마워!야마플로스톡 21:12, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 비록 이 단계에서는 (몇 명이 염두에 두고) 최소한 Twinkle이나 Redwarn과 같은 반자동 역회전 도구의 사용을 금지할 것을 제안하고 싶다(그리고 논리 b도 알 수 있다).반유대적이든 반유대적이든 반유대주의 순찰에 대한 전면적인 금지를 원하는 사람들.오카리나오프타임 (토크) 16:33, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 개인적으로 나는 최근의 변화로부터 혹은 트윙클과 레드워른으로부터도 언어 문제를 고려해 토픽 반을 지지하고 싶다. 그러나 모든 사람들이 사용자의 모국어가 영어가 아닌 상황에서 실수를 하는 동안 나는 IMHO가 다시 이런 일이 일어날까 두렵다. –Davey2010Talk 16:36, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC) 하라
- 그러나 우리는 반자동화 도구를 잘못 사용하는 새로운 편집자를 다시 보게 된다.이 일을 막을 방법이 없을까?우리는 롤백과 같은 사용자 권리를 통제하지만, 누구나 더 강력한 도구를 사용할 수 있게 하는 것 같다.필 브리저 (대화) 2020년 6월 29일 17:12 (UTC)[
- 우리는 롤백 퍼머를 요구함으로써 허글과 같은 강력하고 빠른 도구의 사용을 중단한다.레드워른은 내가 알기로는 트윙클과 같아서 특별히 더 빠른 페이싱이나 롤백 퍼머가 필요한 것은 아니다.허걸과 레드워른 사이에는 분명 가능한 대혼란의 수준에 큰 장벽이 있다.고급은 아니더라도 어떤 종류의 반반달리즘 도구를 사용하기 위해 롤백을 신청하도록 누군가에게 요구하는 것은 문제가 되는데, 이는 반반달리즘 패트롤러가 줄어들거나 경험이 부족한 사용자들이 실제 강력한 도구에 접근하는 결과를 낳기 때문이다.아마도 RedWarn의 개발자는 Twinkle과 유사하게 RW 블록리스트를 구현할 수 있을 것이다. 하지만 그것은 아마도 약간 접선적인 논의일 것이다.늑장부리는 Reader (대화) 17:31, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 일반 Undo(실행 취소) 버튼을 사용하면 동일한 속도로 동일한 속도로 많은 데미지를 발생시킬 수 있다.Twinkle과 RedWarn은 경고 사용자에게 도움을 주지만, 실행 취소 버튼을 되돌리는 것만으로도 꽤 빠르다.--Chuka Chief (talk) 20:07, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 롤백 퍼머를 요구함으로써 허글과 같은 강력하고 빠른 도구의 사용을 중단한다.레드워른은 내가 알기로는 트윙클과 같아서 특별히 더 빠른 페이싱이나 롤백 퍼머가 필요한 것은 아니다.허걸과 레드워른 사이에는 분명 가능한 대혼란의 수준에 큰 장벽이 있다.고급은 아니더라도 어떤 종류의 반반달리즘 도구를 사용하기 위해 롤백을 신청하도록 누군가에게 요구하는 것은 문제가 되는데, 이는 반반달리즘 패트롤러가 줄어들거나 경험이 부족한 사용자들이 실제 강력한 도구에 접근하는 결과를 낳기 때문이다.아마도 RedWarn의 개발자는 Twinkle과 유사하게 RW 블록리스트를 구현할 수 있을 것이다. 하지만 그것은 아마도 약간 접선적인 논의일 것이다.늑장부리는 Reader (대화) 17:31, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 반반달리즘 카운터 개선을 위해 반반달리즘 유닛 아카데미를 등록하고, 내 세션을 졸업하면 최근의 변화를 사용할 것이다.-BEAMALEXANDER25, Talk 17:26, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 업데이트, 나 이제 자러 간다 - BEAMALEXANDER25, 대화 19:08, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 자발적으로 검토나 다른 반관리 유형의 업무에서 철수할 것을 강력히 제안한다.지금 당장은, 영어에 대한 당신의 이해력이 나쁘지 않지만, 이런 것들을 하기에는 충분하지 않다.나는 네가 자동화된 도구를 계속 사용하면 결국 주제가 금지될 것 같아.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 01:10, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 내 사용자 페이지에 내 성명을 발표했어. BA25의 사용자 페이지를 방문해줘, 고마워 -BEAMALEXANDER25, 토크 03:06, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC]
- 좋아, 그리고 나는 당신에게 정책에 의해 정의된 "반달리즘"은 백과사전을 손상시키도록 고안된 편집일 뿐이고 그것은 정확하다는 것을 상기시켜주지 않을 수 없다.의도는 좋으나 잘못된 편집, 허술한 편집, 비협조적인 편집, 그럴듯한 편집, 그 중 어느 것도 "반달리즘"은 아니다.도움이 되지 않지만 의도적인 편집들을 "반달리즘"이라고 부르는 것 자체가 파괴적이다.만약 당신이 편집에 대해 100% 확신하지 못한다면, 아무것도 하지 않는 것이 좋다.경고를 받았구나.데니스 브라운 - 2시 11분 02, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 고마워, @Dennis Brown: 이것은 BeMalexander25가 활동적으로 유지되도록 하는 전략처럼 들리지만, 그가 원한다면 오버스텝은 피할 수 있어!야마플로스톡 21:12, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 그리고 나는 당신에게 정책에 의해 정의된 "반달리즘"은 백과사전을 손상시키도록 고안된 편집일 뿐이고 그것은 정확하다는 것을 상기시켜주지 않을 수 없다.의도는 좋으나 잘못된 편집, 허술한 편집, 비협조적인 편집, 그럴듯한 편집, 그 중 어느 것도 "반달리즘"은 아니다.도움이 되지 않지만 의도적인 편집들을 "반달리즘"이라고 부르는 것 자체가 파괴적이다.만약 당신이 편집에 대해 100% 확신하지 못한다면, 아무것도 하지 않는 것이 좋다.경고를 받았구나.데니스 브라운 - 2시 11분 02, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
WP:뉴저지 리버 베일의 신스
User:201blm에 의한 뉴저지 리버 베일에 대한 기사 수정은 그 마을의 시장에 대한 일련의 주장을 만든다.이전 버전은 출처가 누락되었지만 출처를 포함하더라도 편집 내용은 WP의 명백한 위반으로 간주된다.SYNTH 정책은 Glen Jacheroski 시장이 Black Lives Matter에 대한 성명을 발표했어야 했다고 주장하기 위한 노력의 일환이다.소싱은 1) 공동체가 대체로 백인이며 2) 지역 고등학교에서 마스코트 문제에 대해 그가 입장을 취했다는 사실, 3) 몇 년 전 고등학교에서 인종차별 사건이 있었다는 사실 등으로 단정되는데, 이는 시장이 '흑인 생활'에 대해 성명을 냈어야 했지만 그러지 않았다는 것을 보여주기 위한 것이다.이 모든 것이 사실일 수도 있고, 모두 출처가 있을 수도 있지만, 내가 보기에 결론은 술어에서 오는 것이 아니며, 이것은 이 모든 것을 다소 노골적인 WP로 만든다.SYNTH 위반.이 편집, 이 두 번째 다시 삽입 및 일부 사소한 수정 사항이 있는 최신 버전을 참조하십시오.앨런슨 (대화) 15:30, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 내용상의 논쟁이지만 나는 그것을 제거했다.어떤 일을 하지 않는 사람은 백과사전이 아니다.게다가 학교에 관한 내용은 학교 기사에 실려야 하는데, 그 중 하나가 있다.마지막으로 WP에 불합격한다.리드. 캔터베리 테일 토크 15:38, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 꽤 분명한 WP처럼 보인다.내게 SYNYTH.오노잇츠재미 15:48, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
마샤 P 존슨 반달리즘
Marsha P. Johnson(대화 기록 편집으로 로그 보기 삭제 링크 보호)
이 페이지가 오늘 구글 낙서에 실렸기 때문에 고조되고 있다.Marsha P Johnson의 페이지는 NSFL 이미지와 함께 반복적으로 파괴되고 있다.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/965314802 이미 반보호 상태임.침대 파괴자가 막혔어ECP를 원하십니까? --Deepfriedokra (대화) 16:39, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 딥프리도크라, 그 재미는 어디 있어?난 왁자지껄한 게임 정말 좋아해!하지만, 자동발화기를 부는 것이 그렇게 절름발이의 무언가에 확증된 잠자는 것을 상상해보라.가이(도움말!) 17:42, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- General Notability에 의한 2개의 폭파, 현재 ECP. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 18:24, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
공격과 공격성
| 경고됨 | |
| 나는 BLP에 대한 DS 경보를 발령하고 인디안에게 데드네임을 둘러싼 추가 편집 전쟁이 블록으로 이어지며 잠재적으로 금지될 것이라고 경고했다.가이(도움말!) 20:53, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 관련 문제를 보고하고자 하는 경우:인디안.나는 처음에 위키피디아 이후에 이 페이지를 만들기로 계획했다.분쟁_해결_공지판#레베카_하인만 DRN 사건은 끝났지만, DRN이 나에게 유리하게 나타나지 않을 경우에 대한 보복으로 보이지 않도록 지금 게시하기로 결정했다.
인드리안은 레베카 하인만의 별명과 관련된 수정사항을 현재 약 6년 동안 되돌리고 있다.나는 빙글빙글 돌다가 그녀의 글에서 내가 생각하는 지나친 데드네임(deadnaming)을 알아차렸고, 그것을 없애기로 결심했다.이 기사의 역사를 보다가 나는 몇 년 동안 여러 사람이 같은 일을 하려고 시도했다는 것을 알아차렸는데, 그들 모두는 재빨리 인드리안에게 되돌아갔다.편집 전쟁이 두려워서, 나는 토크 페이지에 이 메시지를 남겼고, 인디안에게 ping을 했고, 그들이 이해할 수 있는 방식으로 나의 편집을 설명하려고 시도했다.글을 올린 후, 나는 실생활과 온라인에서 그들의 생각을 얻기 위해 여러 사람에게 손을 내밀었고, 결국 페디버스 사용자로부터 조언받은 "우리 대 그들"의 사고방식을 피하기 위해 이 편집을 하게 되었다.몇 시간 후, 인디안은 이런 반응을 남기고, 나의 변화를 되돌렸다.인드리안의 이 메시지는 검열로 나를 비난하고, 레베카가 NPOV의 부족으로 인해 그렇게 할 수 없음에도 불구하고 그녀가 원한다면 그녀의 페이지를 편집해 줄 것을 제안한다.게다가, 인디안은 응답의 마지막에 1984년 책을 언급한다.이들은 이 페이지와 인디안과의 테마를 운영하고 있는데, 이들은 토크 페이지에서 개인적인 의제와 검열을 강요한다고 또 다른 사용자를 고발했기 때문이다.인디안에게 다소 무뚝뚝한 반응으로, 나는 앞서 언급한 DRN을 열어보았는데, 그것은 내게는 분명해 보였기 때문에 우리 스스로 해결할 수 없는 일이었다.
토크 페이지의 나머지 게시물들을 통해 인드리안은 내가 검열이라는 개인적인 어젠다를 강요하고 있다고 계속 주장해왔으며, DRN 요청을 여는 것에 대해 나를 조롱해 왔으며, 나는 이것이 WP를 위반하고 있다고 믿는다.AGF. 나중에 나는 다소 우스꽝스럽게 인디안을 '진실성부'라고 지칭하면서, 그들이 1984년에 언급한 이전의 언급으로 다시 전화를 걸었다.인드리안의 가장 최근의 대응은 이것이 인신공격이라고 주장하는데, 나는 그것이 상당히 우스꽝스럽다고 생각한다.
나는 공격, 비난, 조롱, 공격의 이런 행동은 끔찍하며 위키피디아에서 허용되어서는 안 된다고 생각한다. 특히 인드리안이 현재 적어도 6년 동안 이 일을 해왔기 때문에 사용자:Girlsimulation on Talk:레베카_하인만.이것은 더 이상 레베카의 죽은 이름이 아니라, 인드리안의 행동과 공격성에 관한 것이다.나는 피곤하고, 좌절감을 느낀다.나는 열린 마음과 선의를 전제로 이 토론에 들어가려 했고, 그 대가로 나는 모든 것을 트란스 사람들에 의한 웅대한 오르웰의 음모로 보는 사람으로부터 괴롭힘과 공격을 받아왔다.3nk1namshub (대화) 19:46, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 와, 얼마나 비열한 인신공격인가!우리는 현재 상황에 대해 DRN에서 생산적인 논의를 하고 있다.나는 사용자:에 대한 나의 토크 페이지 응답을 지지한다.소녀시뮬레이션은 내가 해석한 대로 정책을 제시했을 뿐이다.나는 또한 역사적 맥락을 지우려는 시도가 오웰리언이라는 나의 주장을 지지한다.거기엔 어떤 큰 음모도 보이지 않는다.나는 큰 디자인이 없거나 더 큰 의도를 가진 공동체의 구성원들이 자기 정체성 선택에 대한 판단에 적용될 때 당연히 혐오스럽다고 보는 관행을 근절하는데 열성적이라고 본다. 그러나 위키피디아는 현재의 위키백과 정책에 따라 역사적 맥락에 필요한 전기적 데이터를 보고하는 것에 불과하다.대체 이름과 대명사 용어로역사를 지우기 위한 특권을 주장하는 것은 슬프게도, 성 스펙트럼에 대한 자기식별권을 부정하려는 것처럼 음흉한 형태의 편협함을 실천하라는 초대다.나는 2004년부터 위키피디아에 종사했고, 그 당시 수십 건의 기사에 대한 열띤 토론에 관여했다.여기까지 끌려온 것은 이번이 처음이다.너무 재밌다.괴롭힘과 침묵을 지키려는 것은 정말로 반대파다!인디안 (대화) 19:57, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 다시 말하지만, 이건 우리의 의견 불일치가 아니라, 당신의 공격과 공격에 관한 겁니다.다른 것으로 돌리지 말아줘, 고마워. 3nk1namshub (대화) 20:07, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 오, 정말 아무것도 돌릴 필요가 없어.내 도움 없이 여기 있는 확실한 연결고리를 잘 정리했구나!인디안 (대화) 20:13, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- Indrian, 당신은 기사에서 과도하게 출생명/죽은 이름이 언급되었다는 것을 인정하지만, 당신은 그 이름의 과도한 사용을 줄이기 위해 어떤 편집자의 모든 노력을 되돌린다.한 IP가 지난 1월 두 건의 과도한 언급만 삭제하려 했는데, 당신은 되돌아간 겁니다.그래서, 당신의 열성 때문에, 그 기사는 6년 동안 보기 흉한 문제를 안고 있었다.나는 네가 물러설 것을 권한다.만약 당신이 그렇게 하지 않는다면, 아마도 우리는 당신을 위한 성전환자의 주제 금지를 고려해야 할 것이다.컬렌렛328 20:22, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 오, 정말 아무것도 돌릴 필요가 없어.내 도움 없이 여기 있는 확실한 연결고리를 잘 정리했구나!인디안 (대화) 20:13, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 다시 말하지만, 이건 우리의 의견 불일치가 아니라, 당신의 공격과 공격에 관한 겁니다.다른 것으로 돌리지 말아줘, 고마워. 3nk1namshub (대화) 20:07, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 콘텐츠 분쟁과 관련된 DRN이 있었다.결의도 없이 문을 닫았다.ANI는 내 공격성에 관한 것이지, 내용은 아니었다.인디안 (대화) 20:46, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
참고: 이 사례는 DRN. Xavexgoem (대화) 20:27, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[에서 종결됨
로렌스 카스단 관련 전쟁 편집
| 지금은 문을 닫는 중이고, 할 일이 없어.편집 교전이 계속되면 블록 툴을 사용할 것을 권장한다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 14분 42초, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
(원래 섹션 제목은 "로렌스 카스단 기사에 대한 포괄적인 추가가 계속 취소되어 원치 않는 편집 전쟁이 발생한다")
나는 2020년 2월에 로렌스 카스단을 위한 기사에 상당한 양의 새로운 자료를 추가했고(그 모든 것을 꼼꼼하게 소싱했으며), 한 명의 특정 사용자인 Revan646은 이제 세 번이나 나의 모든 작품을 삭제하여 기사의 구(그리고 매우 희박한) 버전으로 되돌아갔다.주어진 유일한 이유는 내가 너무 길게 만들어서 "이 페이지를 불필요한 정보로 채워서" "그냥 망쳐버렸어." (이용자도 나를 개인적으로 모욕해서 "stupid" "troll"이라고 불렀어.) 나는 그들의 토크 페이지(대략적으로)에서 직접 레반646와 소통했지만, 우리는 정지해 있는 것처럼 보였다.전후좌우로 인해 또 다른 사용자 티마아가 편집전쟁에 휘말리게 되는 결과에 대해 우리 둘 다에게 경고하게 되었는데, 나는 분명히 그렇게 하고 싶지 않다.나는 이 분쟁을 분쟁 해결 공지 게시판에 올렸고, 사용자 자벡스굼은 그것을 닫았다. "진행 문제가 많다"는 이유로 대신 여기에 올려달라고 나에게 충고했다.나는 이 분쟁이 평화롭게 해결되는 것을 보고 싶고, 모든 위키백과의 표준과 프로토콜을 준수하면서 카스단의 기사를 개선하기 위한 노력의 시간을 보고 싶다.티그리빙 (대화) 15:29, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 이 분쟁에 대한 차이점은 다음과 같다(요약 편집 참고). [31][32][33][34]또한 [35]를 참조하라. 8번째 기여가 될 것이다.콘텐츠 DR은 보통 그것과 관련된 실행 문제를 가지고 있지만, 나는 내가 이 사건을 거부한 것이 불합리하다고 생각하지 않는다.자벡스검 (대화) 17:40, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 티그리빙, 자네와 레이안656 둘 다 내가 봤을 때 17번과 25번에서처럼 편집이 몇 개밖에 안 됐네너희 둘 사이의 메인 스페이스에 대한 총 편집이 10개도 안 되는데 어떻게 편집 전쟁을 할 수 있는지 모르겠다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 01:45, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
내가 오해하고 있을지 모르지만, 기사에 대한 나의 기여는 거의 1만 단어에 달하는 새로운 내용이었다.Revan646은 그것이 지금 "너무 길다"는 것 외에 다른 이유 없이 그 전체를 수중에 삭제했다.내가 이 기사 외에 위키피디아에 별로 기여하지 않은 것은 사실이지만, 왜 그것이 이 논쟁과 관련이 있을지는 잘 모르겠다.티그리빙 (대화) 18:59, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 내 의견으로는, 사용자:Tgreiving and User:Revan646은 둘 다 편집 전쟁 중이다.토크페이지에서 자신들에게 유리한 의견수렴을 받기 전에 다시 기사를 되돌릴 경우 각자가 한 블록씩 위험을 감수하고 있다.에드존스턴 (대화) 20:26, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 합의를 볼 수 있을까?의미 있는 방법이나 실체적인 방법에 관여하지 못하는 사용자와 교착 상태에 빠진 느낌이다.기사에 대한 나의 기여는 모두 가미되고 건설적이었으며, '전쟁'은 단순히 다른 사용자가 설명 없이 내가 추가한 모든 것을 삭제하는 것이었다.티그리빙 (대화) 21:38, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 공감대를 얻기 위한 일반적인 방법은 토크 페이지에서 토론을 하는 것이다.지금 현재, 당신의 편집에 대해 두 명의 편집자로부터 세 개의 코멘트가 있다.레이얀656은 커리어 섹션이 너무 길다(참조, 나는 당신의 추가사항을 믿는다)고 말했고, 그것을 원래대로 되돌릴 생각이었고, 다른 편집자는 긴 버전(당신의 버전)이 더 낫다고 논평했다.사실적인 측면에서, 기사의 편집 히스토리에서, 당신은 두 명의 편집자가 당신의 편집(Reyan646과 다른 편집자)을 제거하고, 당신은 칼튼이 그것을 복원하도록 한다.비록 나는 당신이 삭제한 기사의 일부를 복원시켰지만, 필모그래피 -- 나는 또한 당신의 편집을 개선으로 받아들였다. 지금 이 순간에는 어떤 식으로든 의견이 일치되지 않는 상황이 벌어지므로, 토크 페이지로 가서 왜 당신이 편집한 내용이 기사를 개선한다고 믿는지, 그리고 그것에 대해 어떤 반응을 얻는지 알아보세요."Too long"은 전체 편집을 삭제하는 매우 타당한 이유가 되지 않기 때문에 Reyan646은 당신의 편집에 대항하기 위해 더 나은 주장을 내놓아야 할 것이다.누가 알겠는가, 당신은 당신의 추가가 근본적으로 개선이라는 것에 동의할지 모르지만, 조금 더 날씬해질 필요가 있다.토론을 시작하기 전에는 결코 알 수 없을 것이다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 22:56, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 합의를 볼 수 있을까?의미 있는 방법이나 실체적인 방법에 관여하지 못하는 사용자와 교착 상태에 빠진 느낌이다.기사에 대한 나의 기여는 모두 가미되고 건설적이었으며, '전쟁'은 단순히 다른 사용자가 설명 없이 내가 추가한 모든 것을 삭제하는 것이었다.티그리빙 (대화) 21:38, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
내 편집 내용을 취소하는 스슈
| 107.77.155.0/24 범위 한 달 동안 차단됨.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 05:01, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
그래서 Spshu는 WLAJ, WILX-TV, WLNS-TV에서 편집한 나의 편집들을 모든 것을 설명하지 않고 되돌리고 있다; 그것들은 파괴적이며 심지어 다른 기사에 쓰여진 편집까지 한다.기본적으로 그들은 백과사전을 치우기 위해 이곳에 있지 않기 때문에 무기한 차단되어야 한다. 107.77.189.39 (대화) 18:43, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 일반적으로 역전이 제공된 정당성을 가지고 있다고 말하고 싶다(이전의 역전이 동일한 경우, 그리고 제공된 초기 이유가 있는 경우, 일반적으로 동일한 설명을 갖는다고 가정할 수 있다).그들의 WLAJ(및 당신들) 참여는 느린 속도 편집 전쟁으로 보인다.세 가지 경우 모두 두 분 모두 토크 페이지로 가져가서 모든 것을 해결했어야 한다.그들은 WILX-TV에서 거의 한 달 동안 활동을 하지 않는다.나는 위로부터 어느 편집자의 행동이 공식적으로 제재될 수 있다고는 생각하지 않지만 보통 양쪽 모두에게 송어를 제안할 것이다(그러나 나는 그것이 스파슈의 TP에 문제를 야기시켰다고 본다).대신, 두 사람 모두 저속 삽입/반전을 권장하기보다는 각 인스턴스를 논의하기 위한 요구 사항을 고려하십시오.코백베어 (토크) 18:57, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 이는 같은 지역에서 활동하다가 스파슈와 한 번 이상 충돌한 차단된 사용자 센트럴타임301과 약간 비슷한 느낌이다.나는 1월에 그들에게 연락하려고 했지만 소용이 없었다.만약 그들이 아직 이 자리에 있다면, 나는 정말 실망할 것이다. 6개월 후. -- 19:47, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- CT301은 편집에서 전역 잠금. 107.77.189.39 (토크) 23:48, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
IP 주소가 사용자 대화 페이지를 편집하고, 잘못된 경고를 제공하며, 교전을 편집하는 경우
IP 주소 107.77.189.13과 107.77.189.39는 편집이 허용되지 않는 사용자 대화 페이지에서 "말도 안 되는"을 삭제해 왔다 – 107.77.189.39는 심지어 내 대화 페이지에서 "합리적인 코멘트를 삭제하거나 편집한다"고 거짓 경고하기도 했다.나 또한 그들이 비슷한 편집 패턴을 공유하기 때문에 관련 IP일 수도 있다고 생각한다.
107.77.189.39 또한 사용자:이 디프트에서 볼 수 있듯이 IP 주소가 Sp슈에 대해 보고한 Spshu.사용자:Thoneweirdwikier 대화 및 기여 19:25, 2020년 6월 30일(UTC)[
- 범위 블록이 순서대로 나타난다.그들을 막아서 끝내라.BD2412T 19:32, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 하지만 나는 행정관이 아니다.사용자:Thoneweirdwikier 대화 및 기여 20:06, 2020년 6월 30일(UTC)[
사용자:Aborigins야.
메타나 인큐베이터의 관리인은?사용자:AboriginsDude 내 인큐베이터의 사용자 대화 페이지를 파손한 것.우리는 메타 및 인큐베이터 커뮤니티 포털에서 이 사실을 보고했지만, 그곳의 관리자로부터 어떠한 응답도 받지 못했다.또한, 내가 아는 것은 이 사용자가 이미 en.wiki에서 차단되었다는 것이다.이 사용자가 사용자인 것 같다.반달의 행동을 근거로 한 마이 로열 영. -WayKurat (대화) 09:29, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
공식 바룬 디만
| 차단됨 | |
| 공식 차단 스팸 발송자.가이 (도움말!) 15:37, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
WP의 아주 분명한 사례로 보인다.NOTHERE; 그들은 이미 두 번 빠르게 삭제된 후 세 번째로 개인 페이지를 다시 작성했다.삭제되지 않은 다른 유일한 편집은 기존 문서를 원하는 사용자 페이지의 동일한 복사본으로 교체하는 것이었습니다.–Vorbison(탄소 • 비디오) 14:55, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- 그냥 외설한 거야자기 홍보를 위해 페이지 가로채기, 자기 홍보를 위해 페이지를 이용하라.여기는 아니다.그리고 사라졌다.캔터베리 테일 토크 15:02, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
사용자:나이트즈워세이
Stefan Molyneux에서 최근 편집한 내용을 보면 경고에도 불구하고 사용자:Knightswhosay는 WP:NOTHERHERE는 보호 물품을 반복적으로 파괴하는 빠른 블록을 얻을 수 있다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 07:52, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
반달족은 백인 민족주의적인 내용이 없는 사람을 백인 민족주의자로 묘사하고 인디펜던트가 편견 없는 사실의 뉴스원이라고 생각하는 사람들이다.
- NOTHERE에 대해서는 잘 모르겠지만, 사용자가 안정적으로 소싱된 자료를 계속 되돌리면 블록이 순서대로 되어 있을 것이다.--Ymblanter (토크) 08:04, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @Ymblanter:그들은 그레이펠과의 전쟁을 계속 편집하고 있으며 그들의 토크 페이지에 이런 무례한 의견을 썼다.나는 이 페이지에 있는 대부분의 편집자들이 그들이 동의하지 않는 누군가를 비방하고 싶어하는 당파적인 해킹자들이라는 것을 안다.만약 그들이 과거에 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기에 있었다면, 그들은 분명히 더 이상 존재하지 않는다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 08:35, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 72시간 동안 차단했는데--Ymblanter (대화) 08:39, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[하라
- @Ymblanter:그들은 그레이펠과의 전쟁을 계속 편집하고 있으며 그들의 토크 페이지에 이런 무례한 의견을 썼다.나는 이 페이지에 있는 대부분의 편집자들이 그들이 동의하지 않는 누군가를 비방하고 싶어하는 당파적인 해킹자들이라는 것을 안다.만약 그들이 과거에 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기에 있었다면, 그들은 분명히 더 이상 존재하지 않는다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 08:35, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 퍼 "거짓말을 알아냈다" 그리고
반달족은 백인 민족주의적인 내용
이 없는사람
을 백인민족주의자로 묘사하고 인디펜던트가 편견 없는 사실
의 뉴스원이라고생각하는 사람들
이다. 이 사용자는 WP를 다음과 같이 반박한다.RS 및 is WP:WP를 제외한 다른 내용은:RGW. "2020년 6월, 몰리눅스가 혐오 발언으로 유튜브에서 금지됐다"를 "마오 주석의 오른쪽에 있다"로 바꾼 것은 용납할 수 없다.가이(도움말!) 09:05, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
Safehaven86(토크 · 기여)의 편집도 흥미로워 보이는데, 이 편집을 확인하는 데 CU의 시간을 할애할 가치가 있을 것이다!네크로몽거...모든 인생은 14:35, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
위키백과 위반:사용자별 에티켓:비욘드_My_Ken
이 사건은 한 편집자가 대담하게 QAnon 음모론 페이지에 한 줄을 삽입하면서 시작됐다.페이지 상의 라인의 관련성과 WP 위반 가능성에 대해 우려했다.SYNTH, 그래서 나는 그것을 되돌렸다.BRD 가이드라인에 따라 이슈를 논의하는 대신 사용자 Beyond_My_Ken은 나와 편집 전쟁을 시작했다.그는 아이러니하게도 나의 토크 페이지에 전쟁터 편집 경고문을 올렸다.이에 나는 그의 토크 페이지에 같은 템플릿(이 절차가 정확한지 확실하지 않아, 그렇지 않으면 고쳐줘, 정기적으로 편집하는 것은 처음이야)을 올렸고, 결국 사용자 Beyond_My_Ken이 애초에 했어야 했던 것처럼 기사의 토크 페이지에 한 섹션을 만들게 되었다.
이것으로 끝났을 테지만 QAnon 기사의 토크 페이지에서는 사용자 Beyond_My_Ken이 그 후 나와 나의 편집 동기를 폄하하는 작업을 진행하여, 내가 "기사의 독자에게 보이고 싶지 않은 정보"라는 기사를 의도적으로 "박치기"하고 있었음을 암시했다.이것은 분명히 불신임을 전제로 한 것이고, 시작하기에 좋지 않은 비난이다.나는 좋은 백과사전을 만드는 데 관심이 있기 때문에 이 사이트에 있는 것이고, 뻔뻔하고 부정확한 비난으로부터 이러한 동기부여를 옹호할 필요는 없을 것이다.ANI의 목적이 아니기 때문에 여기서 콘텐츠 분쟁에 휘말리고 싶지는 않지만, 나의 유일한 목표는 페이지의 질을 향상시키고 다른 유사한 페이지들과 위키피디아의 가이드라인과 더 일치하도록 만드는 것이라고 분명히 말하고 싶다.토크 페이지에 있는 의견의 일치는, 내가 옳았다고 말할 가치가 있다.
나는 그를 초청하여 불필요하게 모욕적인 그의 진술을 좀 더 정중하게 다시 말하거나, 아니면 무시해 버리고, 며칠을 기다렸다.그는 이것을 하지 않았다.앞으로 나는 이런 식으로 폄하당하거나, 정당한 이유 없이 나의 동기를 방해받지 않기를 바란다.감사합니다.CrimeMotivation (대화) 20:16, 2020년 6월 27일 (UTC)[
- 이 페이지의 상단 - "이 페이지는 긴급한 사건과 만성적이고 난해한 행동 문제에 대한 논의를 위한 것이다."모든 편집전은 5일 전에 일어났고, 토크 페이지에는 3일 동안 게시되지 않은 작은 토론이 있었다.긴급한 관리자 주의가 필요한 문제는 없는 것 같은데?블랙 카이트 (토크) 21:51, 2020년 6월 27일 (UTC)[
- 음, 나는 그에게 사과하거나 불쾌한 글을 통해 그의 실수를 고치도록 며칠을 주어서 자선을 베풀려고 했는데, 그 이유는 Civility에 관한 기사가 이것을 해결책으로 제시했기 때문이다.그 기사는 내가 만약 그게 안되면 여기로 갈 것을 시사했다.이런 일에는 어떤 절차가 적절한가?긴급하지 않은 사건에 대한 게시판이 있는가?내가 잘못했다면 미안해 - 나는 단지 내가 사과나 철회 없이 토크 페이지에 앉아 있는 것에 대한 경계선 비방이 있는 것이 싫고, 이것이 올바른 절차라고 생각했다.CrimeMotivation (토크) 05:34, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 편집이 45개밖에 안된 사람을 위해 위키부즈 단어와 버튼을 많이 알고 있을 겁니다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 22분 27초, 2020년 6월 27일 (UTC)[
- 고마워! 사실 네가 말하는 "버튼"이 무슨 뜻인지는 잘 모르겠지만, "버즈워즈"에 대해서는 내가 정확하게 하려고 노력하고 있기 때문에 정책에 대해 많이 읽었어.혹시 여기서 뭔가 암시하고 있었니?CrimeMotivation (토크) 05:34, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- Dennis Brown은 이 편집자의 이상한 편집 패턴과 오래된 BMK의 검열을 받고 심지어 BMK의 편집 습관의 일부를 채택하려는 ANI로 즉시 에스컬레이션된 질문을 던졌는가?저런!, 이런!드레이미스 (대화) 00:55, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 내가 ANI로 격상시킨 것은 즉각적인 것이 아니었다. 나는 토론이 벌어지고 있는 대화 페이지에서 철회나 사과를 요구했고, 그리고 나는 3일을 기다렸으나 결국 오지 않았다.그는 그 기간 동안 다른 편집자들과의 토론에 참여했고, 그 요청을 볼 수 있는 충분한 기회를 가졌다.내가 잘못한 게 있다면 다음에 따라갈 수 있도록 실제 과정이 무엇인지 말해줘.이 경우 ANI는 과잉보전인가?만약 내가 정직하게 누군가 나에게 무례하게 행동하고 모욕적이라고 믿는다면 나는 대신 어떻게 해야 했을까?참고로, 나는 [36]의 "불간섭한 거래"란에 나와 있는 리스트를 따라가기 위해 최선을 다하고 있었는데, 나는 이 사건이 일어난 후 시간을 내어 읽어 보았다.7단계마다 "분산 해결"을 모색했어야 했는가?내가 그 대사를 읽은 것은 내가 8단계인 ANI로 직행해야 한다는 것을 나타내는 것 같았다. 왜냐하면 아직도 그 토크 페이지에는 매우 불쾌한 비난이 떠돌고 있었기 때문이다.나는 여기서 좋은 편집자가 되고 싶어, 내가 도를 넘었는지, 만약 그렇다면 다음에 무엇을 해야 하는지 말해줘.CrimeMotivation (대화) 03:37, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 알았어. 고마워 - 앞으로 이런 일에 더 좋은 척도를 가질 수 있도록 노력할게.아직도 요령을 터득하고 있어!CrimeMotivation (토크) 05:21, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 내가 ANI로 격상시킨 것은 즉각적인 것이 아니었다. 나는 토론이 벌어지고 있는 대화 페이지에서 철회나 사과를 요구했고, 그리고 나는 3일을 기다렸으나 결국 오지 않았다.그는 그 기간 동안 다른 편집자들과의 토론에 참여했고, 그 요청을 볼 수 있는 충분한 기회를 가졌다.내가 잘못한 게 있다면 다음에 따라갈 수 있도록 실제 과정이 무엇인지 말해줘.이 경우 ANI는 과잉보전인가?만약 내가 정직하게 누군가 나에게 무례하게 행동하고 모욕적이라고 믿는다면 나는 대신 어떻게 해야 했을까?참고로, 나는 [36]의 "불간섭한 거래"란에 나와 있는 리스트를 따라가기 위해 최선을 다하고 있었는데, 나는 이 사건이 일어난 후 시간을 내어 읽어 보았다.7단계마다 "분산 해결"을 모색했어야 했는가?내가 그 대사를 읽은 것은 내가 8단계인 ANI로 직행해야 한다는 것을 나타내는 것 같았다. 왜냐하면 아직도 그 토크 페이지에는 매우 불쾌한 비난이 떠돌고 있었기 때문이다.나는 여기서 좋은 편집자가 되고 싶어, 내가 도를 넘었는지, 만약 그렇다면 다음에 무엇을 해야 하는지 말해줘.CrimeMotivation (대화) 03:37, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- Dennis Brown은 이 편집자의 이상한 편집 패턴과 오래된 BMK의 검열을 받고 심지어 BMK의 편집 습관의 일부를 채택하려는 ANI로 즉시 에스컬레이션된 질문을 던졌는가?저런!, 이런!드레이미스 (대화) 00:55, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 고마워! 사실 네가 말하는 "버튼"이 무슨 뜻인지는 잘 모르겠지만, "버즈워즈"에 대해서는 내가 정확하게 하려고 노력하고 있기 때문에 정책에 대해 많이 읽었어.혹시 여기서 뭔가 암시하고 있었니?CrimeMotivation (토크) 05:34, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 기억해, 탱고를 추는 데는 두 사람이 필요해.만약 누군가가 당신과 전쟁을 편집하고 있다면, 당신은 둘 다 전쟁을 편집하고 있는 것이다.그러나 여기서는 아무도 WP:3RR을 어기지 않았고, 평화롭게 논의되었다.나는 BMK의 논평이 특별히 미개하다고 보지 않는다.그가 좀 더 선의로 행동할 수 있었을까?아마도.하지만 당신이 매우 논쟁적인 분야의 새로운 편집자임을 고려하면, 사람들이 약간의 의심을 가지고 있다는 것을 이해해주길 바란다.BMK를 되돌리지 말고 즉시 토크 페이지로 옮겨야 하는데 훨씬 더 긍정적인 반응을 얻었을 것이다.전반적으로, 나는 이것을 일반적인 학습 경험으로 보고, 어떠한 제재도 하지 않을 것으로 본다.선장EekEdits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 00:27, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 리: 탱고 두 잔 - 네 말이 맞아.나는 BRD 페이지에 있는 것들을 지침이라기보다는 명령으로 받아들이고 있었던 것 같다.앞으로 나는 먼저 토크페이지에서 의견일치를 보기 위해 최선을 다하겠다.감사합니다.의심에 관해서는, 확실히 이해가 되지만, 만약 사람들이 불필요하게 새로운 사용자들을 쫓아내고 싶지 않다면, 이런 종류의 일은 혼자만 알고 있어야 한다고 생각한다.내 관점에서, 나는 단지 기사를 개선하려고 노력했을 뿐이었고 (그리고 합의는 그것이 개선이라는 것에 동의했다) 그 대가로 나는 모욕당했다.CrimeMotivation (토크) 05:34, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
방금 게시된 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMary_Tyler_Moore&type=revision&diff=965390062&oldid=965389259을 참조하십시오.-저스틴 (코아프))T☮C☺M☯ 02:02, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- OP는 그들이 해야 할 일을 했다: 대담한 (그리고 IMO 의문의) 편집을 되돌렸다.그들은 그렇게 해서 공격을 받았다.BMK는 꽤 연마적인 역사를 가지고 있다.다소 더 많은 시민적 행동을 요구하는 관리자의 조용한 메모가 나쁘게 배치되지는 않을 것이다.호빗 (토크) 16:34, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
2601:8B:C300:4A70:5D09:1427:2C4C:4D51
IP(범위가 현재 차단되어 있기 때문에...)는 TPA 취소가 필요한 것으로 보인다.사용자 토크에서 그들의 최근 편집 이력을 보라:2601:8B:C300:4A70:5D09:1427:2C4C:4D51. 또한 이러한 파괴 행위/파괴적 편집으로 단 2주 이상의 블록이 필요할 수도 있다...마기트로파 (대화) 17:55, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 페이지 보호를 직접 수정하는 것이 훨씬 더 쉽다.WP 시도:DENYUnbreaked Chain (토크) 17:57, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 차단된 상태에서 자신의 토크페이지에서 그들의 공공 기물을 파손하는 행위는 상당히 광범위하며, 차단 전 다른 기사(및 그 범위 내의 이전 IP)에서의 공공 기물 파괴 행위도 광범위하다.나는 확실히 더 긴 블록과 TPA의 해지가 필요하다고 말할 것이다.마기트로파 (대화) 18:11, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 잘됐네, 당신은 왜 단순한 WP에 대해 아직도 대답을 안 하셨죠?RPP가 이걸 해결하지 못할까?그들의 올바른 생각을 가진 어떤 관리자도 IP를 옹호하지 않을 것이다.Unbreaked Chain (talk) 18:12, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이 IP는 내 토크 페이지를 파괴했다(만약 이것이 이 토론과 관련이 있다면) [37]P,To 19104 (대화) (출납) 18:17, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- IPv6을 옹호하는 것은 거의 문제가 없다.반달은 다른 사용자에게 할당된 IPv6과 같은 해에 세 번 번 번개에 맞을 확률이 더 높다. --RexS (대화) 20:59, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @RexxS: 지금으로서는 그런 가능성이 더 낫다는 약간의 뉘앙스가 있다.그들이 광고가 될 것이라는 보장은 없다; 실제로, 향후 몇 년에서 십 년 사이에 이용 가능한 IPv6 주소 범위가 상당히 좁혀질 가능성이 있다. 잠재적으로 수십억 개 이상의 연결된 장치들이 IPv6 주소를 얻는다.IPv6 주소의 변명이 전체적으로 나쁜 생각이라는 것이 아니라, 조만간 IPv6 변명이 더 자주 재사용되기 시작할 것이기 때문에, 나는 우리가 IPv6 변명이 많은 입장에 놓이는 것에 대해 경계해야 한다고 생각한다."IPv4만큼 조심스럽지 않음"이 "사용자 계정과 동일한 방식으로 차단"과 반드시 같은 것은 아닐 것이다.Naypta ☺ ✉ 토크 페이지 21:04, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @RexS 및 Naypta:그것은 절대적으로 옳지 않다.IPv6 개인 정보 확장이 활성화된 경우에만 정확하지만, 종종 마지막 64비트는 MAC 주소를 기반으로 결정론적이다.처음 64비트는 사실 정적으로 할당되는 경우가 많다.또한, 위키백과:IP 주소를 차단하는 것은, 분류적으로, IP 주소는 절대로 무기한 차단되어서는 안 된다는 것을 매우 명확하게 명시하고 있다.그 컨센서스 지원 버전을 존중해 주시고, 동의하지 않으면 RfC를 열어 이것을 변경해 주시길 부탁드린다.--Jasper Dung(talk) 22:39, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 위의 재스퍼 덩의 주의 말에 동의한다.IPv6 주소가 반드시 무작위로 할당되는 것은 아니다. 외부 요인은 ISP에 따라 여전히 부수적인 손상을 초래할 수 있다.IP 주소가 /64 IPv6 주소 범위인 경우에도 무한정 차단하는 것은 일반적인 관례에 어긋나는 일이며, 나는 관리자들에게 사전 합의 없이 이 관행을 벗어나지 말라고 강력히 권고하고 싶다.Mz7 (대화) 23:01, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)@JasperDung: 확실히 맞다.첫째, IPv6은 일반적으로 /64의 블록으로 동일한 연결에 할당된다.둘째로, 마지막 64비트는 MAC 주소에 의해 결정되지 않는 것이 명백하다. 왜냐하면 이제 동일한 사용자가 편집하는 동안, MAC 주소가 고정되어 있는 동안, 어떤 /64 블록의 기여도를 보고 시간이 지남에 따라 어떻게 변화하는지 관찰할 수 있기 때문이다.셋째, 처음 64비트가 너무 많아 정적이든 동적이든, 재사용 가능성은 0에 가깝다.마지막으로 WP:IPBLENGLENGE가 말하길, 그리고 나는 그것이 얼마나 구식인지 알고 있고, 당신도 그럴 것이라고 나는 확신한다.나는 어떤 IPv6도 무한정 차단하고 싶지 않기 때문에 정책 변경에 대해 논쟁하는 데 시간을 낭비할 필요가 없다.내 생각엔 빌어먹을 신경쓰는 사람이 조만간 그렇게 할 것 같아.그렇지 않으면.IPv6을 IPv4인 것처럼 취급하는 어리석음을 지적하는 재미만 있을 뿐이다.--RexxS(대화) 23:03, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- @RexxS: No. IPv6_address#Stateless_address_autoconfiguration은 달리 명시되어 있다.그들이 실제적으로 무작위로 보이는 유일한 이유는 사생활의 확대 때문이지만 우리는 어떤 경우에 대해서도 말할 방법이 없다.없음. 그리고 재사용 가능성은 주소 할당 방법에 따라 달라진다. 일부 DHCPv6 서버가 /64 접두사를 순차적으로 할당하는 것은 매우 상상할 수 있다.어떤 경우든 DHCPv6 또는 정적 주소에 의해 직접 할당된 주소에 대해서는 이 "랜덤" 동작이 관찰되지 않는다.Special이 제공하는 명확한 예:기여/2600:387:800:800:0:0:0:0:0:0:0/60, 주소의 마지막 바이트만이 실제로 변화할 수 있는 방식으로 주소가 순차적으로 또는 다른 방식으로 명확하게 할당된다.--Jasper Dung (talk) 23:15, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- CheckUser의 관점에서 말하자면, 나는 IPv6 범위가 범위를 공유하는 다수의 관련 없는 사용자들이 있었던 /64 범위만큼 좁다는 것을 확실히 확인했다. 특히 영국과 같이 동적인 어드레싱이 높은 국가에서는 이러한 방식으로 단순히 주소 공간을 할당하는 몇몇 인터넷 서비스 제공자들이 있다.네 말이 사실일 수도 있는 상황이 있다는 것은 인정하겠지만, 우리는 일반화 형성에 신중해야 하며, 나는 재스퍼가 주의를 충고한다고 나무라지 않는다.Mz7 (대화) 23:20, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- /64가 여러 명의 사용자를 보유하는 것은 매우 드문 일이겠지만, 나는 그것이 일어날 수 있다는 것을 인정한다.실제로 IP가 고객 수와 유사한 IPv6/64 블록 할당을 가지고 있다면, 무작위성은 사라질 것이다.IPv6의 저렴성을 고려할 때, 나는 현재 상황에서 매우 가능성이 없는 시나리오를 발견하지만, 그것이 불가능한 것은 아니라는 것을 인정한다.라우팅을 단순화하기 위해 주소 그룹을 번들로 묶으면 무작위성이 감소하는 것도 사실이지만, 다시 말해, 너무 많은 /64 블록이 존재하기 때문에 IPv6의 재사용 가능성은 분으로 남아 있다.나는 우리가 항상 주의의 측면에서 실수를 해야 한다는 것에 전적으로 동의하지만, IPv6을 차단할 때 문제를 최소화하는데 필요한 주의의 정도는 IPv4를 차단할 때 필요한 것과 전혀 다르다고 주장한다.YMMV. --RexxS (대화) 00:45, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)@JasperDung: 확실히 맞다.첫째, IPv6은 일반적으로 /64의 블록으로 동일한 연결에 할당된다.둘째로, 마지막 64비트는 MAC 주소에 의해 결정되지 않는 것이 명백하다. 왜냐하면 이제 동일한 사용자가 편집하는 동안, MAC 주소가 고정되어 있는 동안, 어떤 /64 블록의 기여도를 보고 시간이 지남에 따라 어떻게 변화하는지 관찰할 수 있기 때문이다.셋째, 처음 64비트가 너무 많아 정적이든 동적이든, 재사용 가능성은 0에 가깝다.마지막으로 WP:IPBLENGLENGE가 말하길, 그리고 나는 그것이 얼마나 구식인지 알고 있고, 당신도 그럴 것이라고 나는 확신한다.나는 어떤 IPv6도 무한정 차단하고 싶지 않기 때문에 정책 변경에 대해 논쟁하는 데 시간을 낭비할 필요가 없다.내 생각엔 빌어먹을 신경쓰는 사람이 조만간 그렇게 할 것 같아.그렇지 않으면.IPv6을 IPv4인 것처럼 취급하는 어리석음을 지적하는 재미만 있을 뿐이다.--RexxS(대화) 23:03, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- 나는 위의 재스퍼 덩의 주의 말에 동의한다.IPv6 주소가 반드시 무작위로 할당되는 것은 아니다. 외부 요인은 ISP에 따라 여전히 부수적인 손상을 초래할 수 있다.IP 주소가 /64 IPv6 주소 범위인 경우에도 무한정 차단하는 것은 일반적인 관례에 어긋나는 일이며, 나는 관리자들에게 사전 합의 없이 이 관행을 벗어나지 말라고 강력히 권고하고 싶다.Mz7 (대화) 23:01, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- IPv6을 옹호하는 것은 거의 문제가 없다.반달은 다른 사용자에게 할당된 IPv6과 같은 해에 세 번 번 번개에 맞을 확률이 더 높다. --RexS (대화) 20:59, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 이 IP는 내 토크 페이지를 파괴했다(만약 이것이 이 토론과 관련이 있다면) [37]P,To 19104 (대화) (출납) 18:17, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 잘됐네, 당신은 왜 단순한 WP에 대해 아직도 대답을 안 하셨죠?RPP가 이걸 해결하지 못할까?그들의 올바른 생각을 가진 어떤 관리자도 IP를 옹호하지 않을 것이다.Unbreaked Chain (talk) 18:12, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 차단된 상태에서 자신의 토크페이지에서 그들의 공공 기물을 파손하는 행위는 상당히 광범위하며, 차단 전 다른 기사(및 그 범위 내의 이전 IP)에서의 공공 기물 파괴 행위도 광범위하다.나는 확실히 더 긴 블록과 TPA의 해지가 필요하다고 말할 것이다.마기트로파 (대화) 18:11, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
복수 이슈: 재량 제재, COVID, 기타
물품
편집자
공지사항
그리고, 반전은 계속된다: [43] [44] [45] [46], 그것들은 표본일 뿐이고, 더 많다.
상업적 이익과 잠재적인 조정된 편집, 통지 후 COVID 재량권 제재 위반으로 보인다.여기는 아니다.나는 다음에 위에 링크된 세 명의 편집자와 @DePiep: 누가 여러 번 되돌아왔는지 통지할 것이다.샌디조지아 (토크) 15:33, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 WP당 처음 두개를 외설했다.NOTHERE (그리고 서로의 양말일 가능성이 있음) 및 아연을 보호했다.세 번째 것은 주로 그들의 샌드박스에서 편집했는데, 나는 그들이 다른 두 개와 함께 편집전에 참여하는 것을 보지 못한다.아마도 그들이 말하고자 하는 것을 이해한 누군가가 그들의 편집 내용을 살펴봐야 할 것이다.-임블란터 (대화) 15:50, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- WT에 올린 글:MED, 그러니 희망컨대 제약회사 사람들이 곧 그 일을 하게 될 것이다.Thx, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:52, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- (ec, 블록을 보았다)내게는 글에 여러 섹션이 있는 매우 동일한 텍스트 블록(즉, c/p)을 삽입하는 것이 귀찮아 보인다.이러한 대부분의 장소에서 나는 WP를 반대했다.FRURED와 그러한 이유들.또한 모든 신규 편집자 Mandem123456의 기고문은 동일한 편집을 보여주며, WP의 자격을 얻을 수 있다.SOCK 체크. -DePiep (대화) 15:57, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
나는 변경 보류 중이고, 미심쩍은 주장에 대응하여 철의 결핍을 보호했다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 08:34, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
반복적인 비소싱 편집
제러미쿨 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
제레미컬은 개인적인 탄원뿐만 아니라 여러 개의 경고, 번복 편집 요약(예 1, 2, 3)에도 불구하고, 그들의 토크 페이지에서 이러한 이슈를 인정하지 않고 편집 내용을 검증하려고 시도하지도 않았다.여기, 여기, 그리고 여기 그들의 가장 최근의 비협조적인 편집의 몇 가지 예들이 있고 나는 필요하다면 기꺼이 더 많은 것을 제공할 수 있다.관리자 개입을 해주면 정말 고맙겠다.로반베 08:06, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 관리인이 한 번 봐주길 바라는 마음에서 살짝 부딪힌 것뿐이야.로반베 13:58, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- ANI가 눈치채기 전부터 응답도 편집도 안 했어그들의 토크 페이지를 보고 있다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 20:54, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 딥프리도크라 고마워.맞아, 내 개인적인 요청을 그들의 토크 페이지에서 삭제하는 것 말고는 편집된 내용을 친절하게 전달해 달라고 부탁하는 것 말고는 말이야.나는 관리자가 그 사건을 살펴보기 전까지는 그들의 비지원적인 추가사항을 삭제하지 않기로 선택했다. 그래서 우리는 그들이 의도적으로 다시 참조되지 않은 편집사항을 다시 복원했는지 여부를 확인할 것이다.다시 한번 고마워!로반베 07:22, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- @Robvanvee:우리는 비록 그것이 성가신 이해력을 나타낼 뿐이지만, 제거는 인정과 동일시한다.충분히 경고를 받은 것 같다. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 08:24, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 응. 다시 한번 Deepfriedokra 고마워!로반베 08:38, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- @Robvanvee:우리는 비록 그것이 성가신 이해력을 나타낼 뿐이지만, 제거는 인정과 동일시한다.충분히 경고를 받은 것 같다. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 08:24, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 딥프리도크라 고마워.맞아, 내 개인적인 요청을 그들의 토크 페이지에서 삭제하는 것 말고는 편집된 내용을 친절하게 전달해 달라고 부탁하는 것 말고는 말이야.나는 관리자가 그 사건을 살펴보기 전까지는 그들의 비지원적인 추가사항을 삭제하지 않기로 선택했다. 그래서 우리는 그들이 의도적으로 다시 참조되지 않은 편집사항을 다시 복원했는지 여부를 확인할 것이다.다시 한번 고마워!로반베 07:22, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- ANI가 눈치채기 전부터 응답도 편집도 안 했어그들의 토크 페이지를 보고 있다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 20:54, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
보복성 AFD 후보지명
| 이것은 도움이 되지 않는 방법으로 완화되었다.캑터스 잭은 은퇴 메시지를 올리기 전 보복성 애프드를 폐쇄했다.그들은 또한 화가 나서 프로젝트를 떠나면서 다른 사용자를 향한 미개한 편집 요약을 남기지 말았어야 했다.NPOL을 어떻게 적용하고 적용해야 하는지에 대한 추가 논의가 적절한 포럼을 개최할 수 있다.전혀 다른 두 편집자에 대한 지역 사회의 의견이 필요한 의견 불일치는 어느 누구도 개입이 필요한 것이 있다고 생각하지 않는 것 같다.바킵49 (대화) 20:19, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
위키백과에서 논쟁을 벌인 후:WP에 대한 나의 "해석"에 대한 삭제/애너미 폴:NPOL은 틀렸다. 한 편집자가 최근 내가 만든 전혀 관련이 없는 몇몇 기사들을 사실상의 기한이 오래 지난 주목할 만한 영화 시상식의 연례 반복에 대해 분명하게 지명함으로써 내 입장에 대한 보복을 시도했다.분명히 영화상들과 정치 후보자들은 서로 전혀 상관없는 일이고, 당신이 완전히 관련이 없는 문제에서 그것을 만든 사람과 의견이 다르기 때문에 삭제하기 위해 무언가를 지명하는 것은 적어도 WP는 아니다.POINT 위반과 잠재적으로 괴롭힘에 접근하기도 하지만 직접 관련된 당사자로서 내가 복수 후보를 마감하거나 편집자를 직접 제재하는 것은 분명히 부적절할 것이다.
해당 토론은 위키백과:삭제 조항/제8회 주트라 어워드, 위키백과:삭제 조항/제9회 주트라 어워드, 위키백과:삭제 조항/제10회 주트라 어워드 및 위키백과:삭제 조항/11회 주트라 어워드 — 그리고 프릭스 아이리스 전체 (2016년에 이름이 바뀌었으므로 주트라-vs-아이리스 구별에 혼동하지 말 것)에 대한 우리의 글과 매년 열리는 시상식에서도 프랑스어 위키백과에 대한 기사가 있다는 사실 모두 그들의 불친절함을 분명히 보여준다.
따라서, 나는 단지 누군가가 이 상황을 볼 수 있는지, 그리고 만약 당신이 적절하다고 생각한다면 잠재적으로 최소한 빠르게 복수 후보들을 마무리 할 수 있는지 묻고 싶었다.고마워요.베어캣 (대화) 22:49, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 내 의견을 고수하며 그것들을 철회하지 않을 것이다.베어캣은 수년간 AFD 과정을 정치인의 기사에 대해 맹비난하며, 그 가이드라인에 대한 자신의 해석만이 옳고 GNG는 전혀 무관하다고 주장하며, 동의하지 않는 사람은 누구든 의사진행발언을 하고 있다.나는 요점 있는 후보들에 대해 사과한다 - 그것은 사소한 것이었고 잘못된 것이었다.나는 피할 수 없는 차단을 받아들인다 - 나는 내 논평과 뾰족한 후보 지명 때문에 그것을 받을 자격이 있다는 것을 인정한다.----CactusJack 🌵 23:20, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 내가 말한 모든 것을 지지한다.나는 NPOL이 어떻게 작용하는지에 대한 현장 전체의 합의와 한 가지 차이점이 있는 NPOL에 대한 "개인적 해석"을 가지고 있지 않다.
- 내가 전에 말했듯이, 모든 선거의 모든 후보자들은 항상 어느 정도의 선거 커버리지를 받는다. 그래서 만약 어떤 선거 커버리지의 존재가 NPOL을 통과해야 하는 GNG 기반의 면제를 한 후보자에게 건네주는 데 전부였다면, 모든 후보들은 항상 그러한 면제를 받을 것이고 NPO 그 자체는 무의미할 것이다. 왜냐하면 아무도 그렇게 하지 않을 것이기 때문이다.사실 더 이상 통과해야 한다.정치인들은 이곳에 선거 브로슈어를 게시함으로써 그들의 허심탄회함을 홍보하기 위해 위키피디아를 광고 플랫폼으로 이용하려는 경향이 높은 사람들 중 한 명이다. 하지만 그것은 우리의 의무나 역할이 아니다. 그래서 우리는 정치인을 정치적인 이유로 위키피디아에 들어오게 하는 열쇠가 된다는 확고한 공감대를 가지고 있다.보통은 보직을 위해 출마하는 것만이 아니라 보직을 필요로 한다.따라서, 정치 후보들은 NPOL에서 스스로를 면제하기 위해 단지 일부 선거캠페인 커버리지의 존재만을 보여줄 필요는 없다. NPOL이 그러한 방식으로 일한다면, 모든 후보들은 항상 NPOL에서 자유로워질 것이기 때문이다. 오히려, 후보자들은 WP: 그들이 WP를 탈출한다는 것을 보여줄 필요가 있다.BLP1E는 그러한 맥락에서만 또는/또는 그들의 입후보자가 NPOL에서 면제되기 전에 영구적인 중요성에 대한 10년 시험을 통과해야 하는 이유 이상의 내용을 가지고 있다.
- 그리고 이것들 중 어느 것도 내 개인적인 의견만은 아니다. 모든 의견들은 위키피디아에 의해 확립되어 있고, 정치인들에 대한 수 천명의 과거 AFD들에 의해 지지되고 유지되고 있다. 그 중 많은 것들은 전혀 참여조차 하지 않았다.그리고 사실, 나는 또한 기존의 합의안에 동의하지 않았고, 선출되지 않은 후보들에 대한 기사들을 지지했다 - 나는 내 눈으로 내 전 입장이 위키피디아의 품질과 신뢰성에 실제로 미친 영향을 본 후에야 합의에 동의하게 되었다. 왜냐하면 선출되지 않은 후보들에 대한 기사들은 알 수 있기 때문이다.ost는 항상 광고에 나오는 잡동사니에 빠져든다.
- 그러나 당신이 정치인에 대해 내 의견에 동의하든 동의하지 않든 간에, 정치인에 대한 평판 기준과는 전혀 상관없는 주제에 대한 보복성 공천은 그야말로 부적절하다.베어캣(토크) 23:30, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
매디슨 카우톤 AFD 논평 |
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메모들
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- 가이드라인의 본문이 정면으로 모순되는 상황에서 자신의 해석이 '올바른 해석'이라고만 주장할 수는 없다.----CactusJack 🌵 02:09, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 캑터스잭은 그 후보들을 철회하고 마감했고, 나는 그들이 그것이 이 논쟁을 처리하는 잘못된 방법이었다는 것을 인정했다고 생각한다.WP의 해석에 대한 토론을 제안할 수 있는가?NPOL은 위키백과에서 계속:빌리지_펌프_(idea_lab)#re thinking_notability_standards_for_political_candidates? --말콤플렉스5 (토크) 02:41, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 베어캣과 같은 편집자들이 한 번도 고위직에 오른 적이 없는 선출되지 않은 정치 후보들이 거의 눈에 띄지 않는다는 우리의 오랜 합의를 옹호하는 데 도움을 준 것은 다행스러운 일이다.이 편집자는 캠페인 브로슈어가 위키백과에서 백과사전 기사로 위장하는 것을 돕는 뛰어난 일을 했다.물론 후보자가 이전에 장군이나 프로 운동선수나 영화배우였다면 그런 이유로 눈에 띈다.그러나 의회나 의회에 출마한 지역 변호사나 사업가의 대다수는 위키백과의 전기를 쓰기에는 충분히 주목할 만한 것이 못 된다. 왜냐하면 그들의 취재는 일상적이고, 지역적이며, 방앗간의 운영이며, 예측 가능하기 때문이다.그러한 후보들을 선거 캠페인에 관한 기사에서 간략하고 중립적으로 묘사해야 하며, 모든 후보들에게 그에 필적할 만한 보도가 제공되어야 한다.그러나 이러한 기사를 쓰려고 하는 POV 푸셔와 SPA는 중립적인 취재를 원하지 않는다.그들은 그들의 후보자에게 초점을 맞춘 위키피디아 기사가 그들의 캠페인의 소셜 미디어 포트폴리오의 또 다른 요소일 뿐이라고 본다.컬렌렛328 02:45, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 사용자:Cullen328은 SPA가 중립적인 보장을 원하지 않는다는 것에 대해 옳다.이 우려는 정치 후보자와 기업 모두에게 적용된다.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 21:29, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 베어캣과 같은 편집자들이 한 번도 고위직에 오른 적이 없는 선출되지 않은 정치 후보들이 거의 눈에 띄지 않는다는 우리의 오랜 합의를 옹호하는 데 도움을 준 것은 다행스러운 일이다.이 편집자는 캠페인 브로슈어가 위키백과에서 백과사전 기사로 위장하는 것을 돕는 뛰어난 일을 했다.물론 후보자가 이전에 장군이나 프로 운동선수나 영화배우였다면 그런 이유로 눈에 띈다.그러나 의회나 의회에 출마한 지역 변호사나 사업가의 대다수는 위키백과의 전기를 쓰기에는 충분히 주목할 만한 것이 못 된다. 왜냐하면 그들의 취재는 일상적이고, 지역적이며, 방앗간의 운영이며, 예측 가능하기 때문이다.그러한 후보들을 선거 캠페인에 관한 기사에서 간략하고 중립적으로 묘사해야 하며, 모든 후보들에게 그에 필적할 만한 보도가 제공되어야 한다.그러나 이러한 기사를 쓰려고 하는 POV 푸셔와 SPA는 중립적인 취재를 원하지 않는다.그들은 그들의 후보자에게 초점을 맞춘 위키피디아 기사가 그들의 캠페인의 소셜 미디어 포트폴리오의 또 다른 요소일 뿐이라고 본다.컬렌렛328 02:45, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 나는 이 문제에 너무 깊이 관여하고 싶지는 않지만, 선인장잭이 위키피디아에서 베어캣을 지목한 것에 대해 잘못된 비난을 했다는 것을 보고해야 할 것이다.삭제/Dylan Peceval-Maxwell에 대한 기사들 그리고 내가 요청했을 때 격분했다 (역대 그것은 꽤 확고했지만, 나는 편집자를 존경한다.)블록이 필요할 수도 있다.(편집 요약이 무엇보다 나를 여기로 불러온 이유였습니다, 참고하십시오.)SportingFlyer T/C 06:46, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- 나는 위키피디아처럼 보인다.딜런 피어스발 맥스웰과 안나미 폴 모두 수십 년 전 그들의 허심탄회한 사실과 관련된 세부적인 자료들을 가지고 있다는 점에서 삭제/Dylan Pisceval-Maxwell에 대한 기사는 요점이었다.선인장잭이 보복 후보에 올라서는 안되지만 베어캣도
뾰족한후보에 올라서는 안된다.나는 베어캣이 AFD 토론과 AFD 토론에서 SNG(특히 NPOL)가 GNG를 이긴다는 주장에 대해서도 매우 우려하고 있는데, 이는 최근 AFD 후보 지명 중 일부에서 일관성이 있어 보인다.Nfitz (대화) 07:57, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC) (보복보다 더 중요한) Nfitz (대화) 09:20, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 위키피디아처럼 보인다.딜런 피어스발 맥스웰과 안나미 폴 모두 수십 년 전 그들의 허심탄회한 사실과 관련된 세부적인 자료들을 가지고 있다는 점에서 삭제/Dylan Pisceval-Maxwell에 대한 기사는 요점이었다.선인장잭이 보복 후보에 올라서는 안되지만 베어캣도
확장 콘텐츠 |
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| 내가 처음 카피비오에 들어갔을 때, 카피비오는 AFD에서 언급되지 않았고, 내가 그 토론에 들어갔을 때, 단지 그 일부만이 앞의 코멘트에서 카피비오로 확인되었다; 위키피디아에서는 명백한 공감대가 결여되어 있었다.삭제/새티쉬 메논에 대한 조항은 JLP(아직 AFD 생성이 금지된 주제)만이 삭제를 승인했다면, 어떠한 삭제도 WP의 적용을 받는다.환불 - 카피비오의 내용이 상세히 보도된 후에 문제를 제기하지는 않았지만... 그렇다고 해서 마감 상태가 좋았다는 뜻은 아니다.페닉스의 폐쇄에 대해 걱정했었는데...포이살의 경우 개선될 수 있을 것 같다.Ishan Pandita의 경우, 위키피디아에서 다음과 같이 마무리하는 과정에서 절차상의 오류가 있었다.삭제 조항/이산 판디타(2차 지명)는 만장일치에 가까운 곳이 아니었고, 그 자체도 다소 의문스러운...내가 2차 AFD 이후 그에 대해 출판된 자료의 양을 보았을 때, 나는 단지 3차 AFD가 그 문제에 대한 정의를 행하지 않은 것처럼 보인다.나한테 무슨 문제라도 있나? ... 글쎄... 집에서 3.5개월 동안 갇혀있다가 내가 약간 소동을 일으키고 있는 것 같은데... 우리 모두 그렇지? ... 하지만 나는 내가 보통 하는 것보다 더 깊이 파고드는 데 시간이 더 많은 것 같아.공교롭게도, 나는 베어캣에 대해 비슷한 우려를 갖기 시작했는데, 베어캣은 AFD에서, 특히 캐나다 기사에서 전반적으로 이성적인 모습을 보였었다. |
두 가지 고민
스피디한 보관!투표
최근 AFD에는 SK2나 SK3가 아닌 "나는 이 AFD가 싫다"는 의미의 스피디한 Keep!보트가 많이 있다.최근 스피디한 킵의 매우 혼란스러운 비관리자 마감으로 폐쇄된 AFD가 적어도 한 명 있었지만, 그것은 DRV에서 역전되었다.당신이 Keep을 의미할 때 Speed Keep이라고 말하는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다.혼란스럽다.아마도 곤충과 같은 스피디한 킵의 주장을 먹으려면 송어의 종류가 필요할 것이다.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 13:46, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
NPOL 리스테이트
사용자:CactusJack은 사용자:베어캣의 정치적 명성에 대한 해석은 백과사전의 개선을 방해하고 무시되어야 한다.그 진술은 정치적 공신력 기준을 오해하고 있다.정치적 공신력은 특정 공직자들에게 사실상의 특별한 공신력이며, 수년 동안 이해되고 합의되어 왔다.후보자를 포함하여 그것을 충족시키지 못하는 개인은 일반 공신력만으로 평가되어야 한다.일반 공신력에 대한 삭제론적 해석이 해롭다는 뜻이라면 그렇게 말해라.그 이슈는 정치적 평판이 좋지 않다. 그것은 분명하다.그것은 일반적인 공신력이다.정치적 명성에 대해서는 이견이 없어야 한다.후보들에 대한 일반적인 공신력에는 의문이 있다.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 13:46, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 @CactusJack:의 문제는 사용자:베어캣은 다음과 같은 해석을 하고 있다.어떤 후보라도 커버리지가 있을 것이고 일반적인 지명도를 쉽게 충족시킬 것이다.위키피디아가 채워지는 것을 막기 위해 우리는 정치적 공신력이라는 추가 기준을 적용해야 하며, 그들이 WP를 만나야 한다.그들의 기사가 받아들여질 수 있다는 NPOL.
- 그것은 사용자:와 반대다.로버트 맥클레논은 즉 정치적 공신력과 일반 공신력이 공신력에 도달하는 두 가지 방법으로 작용한다고 말하고 있다.한 사람을 만나면 그 사람이 눈에 띈다.TimeEngineer (대화) 15:21, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 유의미한 커버리지가 있더라도 후보(특히 실패한 후보)는 WP에 따라 하나의 이벤트에서만 주목할 수 있다는 점을 기억해야 한다.BLP1E - 따라서 NPOL 또는 GNG 정책에 대한 우려가 없어야 한다.베어캣이 최근에 만든 두 개의 AFD에서, 두 후보 모두 GNG 커버리지가 수십 년 전으로 거슬러 올라가기 때문에 이 모든 것이 엉망이 되었다. 베어캣은 NPOL이 GNG를 능가한다고 잘못 주장하고 있다. 그러나 후보자들의 정치 경력은 두드러지지 않을 수 있지만, 중요한 연방 정당의 지도력 선출은 놀라운 일이 아니다.주목할 만한 이력을 가진 후보들을 선정하다Nfitz (대화) 17:10, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- NPOL은 관련 정책이 아니다.NPOL이 배제되기 때문이 아니라 그들이 WP를 실패하기 때문에 NPOL에 실패한 비노력 정치인들을 우리는 자주 청소한다.어떤 면에서는 그렇지 않다 - WP:NOTNNEWS, WP:PROMO, 아마도 WP:BLP1E, 내가 잊고 있는 게 하나 있을 것 같아.거의 모든 정치인들, 심지어 매우 지역적인 정치인들도 GNG를 통과하게 될 것이고, 이것은 우리가 그들을 AfD에서 더 높은 기준을 유지하게 한다는 것을 의미한다.SportingFlyerT·C 17:43, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- WT:N에서 GNG와 SNG에 대한 폭넓은 논의가 있다.ANI는 사실 무엇이 '이상한' 것인지 알아낼 수 있는 곳이 아니다.늑장부리는 Reader (대화) 21:50, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 유의미한 커버리지가 있더라도 후보(특히 실패한 후보)는 WP에 따라 하나의 이벤트에서만 주목할 수 있다는 점을 기억해야 한다.BLP1E - 따라서 NPOL 또는 GNG 정책에 대한 우려가 없어야 한다.베어캣이 최근에 만든 두 개의 AFD에서, 두 후보 모두 GNG 커버리지가 수십 년 전으로 거슬러 올라가기 때문에 이 모든 것이 엉망이 되었다. 베어캣은 NPOL이 GNG를 능가한다고 잘못 주장하고 있다. 그러나 후보자들의 정치 경력은 두드러지지 않을 수 있지만, 중요한 연방 정당의 지도력 선출은 놀라운 일이 아니다.주목할 만한 이력을 가진 후보들을 선정하다Nfitz (대화) 17:10, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
원래의 관심사
- 나는 이 스레드가 납치될 것이라고 예상하지 못했지만, 나는 여전히 관리자가 이 편집을 검토했으면 한다.SportingFlyer T/C 17:43, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 선인장잭이 비밀번호를 허비하고 위키피디아를 그만둔 것은 불과 몇 주 전 아니었을까?이번엔 제대로 된 휴식이 필요할지도 몰라P-K3 (대화) 18:05, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그들이 재활한 지 3년이 지났지만 블록이 없는 상황에서, 나는 CJ에 대한 긴급한 우려는 보이지 않는다… 뾰족한 AFD들이 철회되었고, 그 반언어는 여전히 이슈가 되고 있다.그들이 가장 취약한 상황에 있을 때 편집자를 쫓아내지 맙시다.베어캣의 뾰족한 AFD, 불성실성, 그리고 SNG가 수십 년간의 GNG 커버리지를 능가한다는 특이한 주장으로 볼 때 우리가 그런 방향으로 간다면 부메랑 잠재력도 있을 것이다.모두 진정하면 돼Nfitz (대화) 18:17, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 욕설이 문제가 아니라 나가는 길에 그들이 부과한 인신공격이다.베어캣의 AFD는 뾰족한 수가 없었으며, 당신이 그 진술들을 철회한다면 우리 모두에게 이익이 될 것이다.나 또한 네가 이 요청을 가로채는 것에 감사하지 않아.제발 나와의 상호작용을 삼가 주시오.SportingFlyer T/C 18:46, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 베어캣은 여기에 한 사용자가 예의 바르지 않고 점잖은 AFD를 만든다는 불만을 제기했고, 당신은 위키피디아에서 상황을 고조시켰다.삭제/Annamie Paul에 대한 문서.나는 이미 베어캣에게 그들의 예의범절과 뾰족한 AFD에 대해 따로 불평했었기 때문에, 이 ANI 토론을 보았을 때, 어떻게 내가 문제를 제기하는 것 외에 다른 선택권이 있었는지, 잠재적인 부메랑으로 보지 않는다.Bearcat이 글을 읽고, BEY를 제대로 하고, AFD 지명을 완료하는 것을 다른 사용자가 ORTUSTUFFEXIST로 강조한 후 16분 만에 AFD는 확실히 지적이었다.물론 그 전에 실패했을 때, 최근의 지도력 달리기뿐만 아니라 20년 동안 GNG 커버리지가 있다.Nfitz (대화) 19:04, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 다시 말하지만, 나와의 상호작용을 자제해줘.SportingFlyer T/C 19:27, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
인터랙션 금지?
사용자 간의 상호 작용 금지 제안:Nfitz 및 사용자:스포르팅 플라이어.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 21:29, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 만약 내가 상호 작용 금지를 원했다면, 나는 특별히 요청했을 것이다.이 섹션은 단지 내가 검토를 요청한 디프피를 조사하기 위해 관리자에 대한 나의 요청을 제거하는 역할을 할 뿐이며 나는 그것을 즉시 종료할 것을 제안한다.스포팅플라이어 T·C 21:47, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 좀 이른 것 같아?가이(도움말!) 10:17, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
감시자용
이 보고서에 따르면 스테판 몰리뉴, 리처드 B. 스펜서와 데이비드 듀크는 유튜브에서 금지되었고, 그것은 전형적으로 BLP에 대한 비중립적인 편집으로 이어진다.가이 (도움말!) 09:44, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이것이 WP라는 것을 안다.NOTFORUM, 하지만 나는 자제할 수 없다.말할게, 때가 됐어트위터, YouTube조차 누군가를 금지할 때 너는 주의를 기울인다.침착하게 행동해라.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 09:48, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 그 모든 기사들은 이미 스프로터(당신의 진실로 처음 두 기사)가 되어 있으니, 그런 것이 있다.하지만 필요하다면 ECP로 임시로 업그레이드할 준비가 되어 있다.El_C 12:20, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- El C, yup.그리고 나는 끔찍한 트롤링 때문에 이틀 동안 스테판 몰리뉴스의 토크 페이지를 몰래 찾아냈다.가이(도움말!) 20:55, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- 오, 미안, 난 이미 리처드 B처럼 스테판 몰리눅스처럼 변명의 여지가 없다고 생각했어.스펜서하지만 그와 함께 AP2를 호출할 수는 없을 것 같다. 그의 캐나다인 같은 생각이 나를 당황하게 한다.El_C 21:13, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
- El C, yup.그리고 나는 끔찍한 트롤링 때문에 이틀 동안 스테판 몰리뉴스의 토크 페이지를 몰래 찾아냈다.가이(도움말!) 20:55, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[
핵심 이슈 신뢰 및 사용자에 의한 WP:3RR 위반에서 WP:NPOV 문제 해결:92.2.40.111
| (관리자 이외의 폐쇄) GeneralNotability에 의해 차단됨.다크나이트2149 19:56, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 현재 CUVA 프로그램에 등록되어 있고 최근 변경사항 순찰에 대해 더 배우기 위해 프로그램의 Tools 부분에 있다.92.2.40.111 (대화 · 기여)의 핵심 신뢰 이슈에 대한 편집 내용을 우연히 발견했고 그것이 WP:NPOV를 위반했다고 보았다.나는 사용자에게 WP:NPOV에 어긋나는 문구를 강요하지 말고 중립적인 문구로 바꾸라고 요구했었다.사용자는 코어가 무엇을 상징하든 내가 옹호한다고 비난했지만, 사용자 역시 계속해서 페이지를 편집하겠다고 말하는 사용자에게서 보듯이 완고하다.따뜻한 안부 전합니다,가르도 베르사체 (대화) 16:23, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- @Tarheel95 ping: 유저도 IP 유저와 그 문제에 대해 논의하였듯이.
여기 IP 사용자.애초에 가졌던 문제가 이제 해결되었다.이와 같은 민감한 주제에서는 '이슈'라는 용어를 사용해서는 안 된다.그러므로 나는 지금 그것을 주제로 변경했고 이 문제는 종결되었다고 생각한다.— 92.2.40.111 (대화) 16:28, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- @92.2.40.111: 네가 돌아와서 기쁘다. 네가 WP를 해결했으니 나도 그 문제를 종결된 것으로 생각할 것이다.NPOV 문제.하지만 여전히 3RR의 문제가 있다.편집전에 적극적으로 참여하셨는데, 지난번에는 편집전에 대한 위반이었기 때문에 정확히 되돌리지는 못하셨습니다.하지만 3RR 문제는 여전히 직면해야 한다. 정말 유감이다.가르도 베르사체 (대화) 16:33, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
난 아직 돌아오지 않았어.내가 편집하는 걸 금지해, 난 상관없어.이는 WP보다 훨씬 신뢰할 수 있는 정보 출처가 있다는 것을 방금 증명했다 — 92.2.40.111 (대화) 16:36, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나는 WP에서 정책에 대한 반복적인 무지와 관련하여 두 가지 이슈의 타당성에 대해 말할 수 있다.NPOV 및 3회 되돌리기 규칙 위반.사용자는 NPOV 충돌을 인정하지 않는 것 같으며 사용자의 대화 페이지와 위에서 논의된 정책 위반에 대해 경고를 받았을 때에도 편향된 내용으로 반복적으로 되돌리기를 한 적이 있다.타르헬95 (토크) 16:52, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
여기에 표시된 다른 편집자에 대한 인신공격에 대해서도 이 편집자에게 '단독 경고'를 발령했다는 점에 유의하십시오.이후 다른 편집자들이 NPOV 위반에 대해 상당한 양의 경고를 한 것으로 보인다.그들은 분명히 내가 보기에 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다.베스트, 대런-M 토크 17:23, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- IP 편집기는 내가 아는 한 여기에 있지 않다.페이지 보호됨, IP 차단됨.GeneralNotability (대화) 17:35, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
37.130.126.241
| (비관리자 폐쇄) 대화 페이지 액세스 취소, 차단 확장다크나이트2149 19:58, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
누군가 이 IP의 TPA를 취소할 수 있는가?아담9007 (대화) 00:59, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
TPG 위반
| (비관리자 폐쇄) Dennis Brown에 따라 고정.다크나이트2149 20:00, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
우리는 여기에 107.77.213.157의 IP를 가지고 있는데, 어느 정도, 토크 페이지 지침을 위반하고 포럼으로 취급한 것에 대해 비판적인 견해를 가지고 있다.예를 들어, 대화 페이지를 비우거나 여기를 참조하십시오.그들의 최근 이력에 대한 리뷰는 그들이 트롤링한 이력이 있는 것처럼 보인다는 것을 나타낼 것이다. 이것과 이것들을 참조하라.고마워, Mar4d (대화) 04:31, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
지나치게 열성적인 반달 투사: 그들의 편집에 눈길이 필요하다.
우리는 새로운 반달 투사 임굿캅(토크 · 기여)을 가지고 있는데, 그는 반달 투병에서 극도로 다작하고, 극도로 부정확하며, 극도로 산산조각이 났다.기물 파손과 불완전한 반전의 잘못된 반전은 내가 그들의 편집 내용을 꽤 많이 통해 찾아냈듯이 많다.예로는 이것, 이것, 그리고 이것이다.사람들이 그들의 기여를 주시하고 필요하다면 개입할 수 있을까?사용자가 양립할 수 없는 시간대에 있는 것 같아 (그들의 편집 내용을 있는 그대로 간신히 따라갈 수 있었다) 정말 나 스스로는 할 수 없다.Graham87 14:02, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 또한 이 사용자를 처리한 Incagnito와 AviationFreak도 ping.최근에 다른 사용자가 비슷한 행동을 하는 것을 본 것 같은데...하지만, 나는 나의 기여를 검색해서 그들의 사용자 이름을 찾을 수 없고 어떻게 되었는지 전혀 모른다.Graham87 14:07, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나는 방금 그들의 반전에 대해 몇 가지 즉석 검사를 해 보았는데, 문제가 되는 반전의 수많은 예를 찾는데 오랜 시간이 걸리지 않았다.이것은 편집 요약을 거의 사용하지 않는다는 사실에 의해 더 악화된다.나는 네가 이미 그들에게 이것에 대해 접근했다는 것을 안다. 나는 그들에게 속도를 줄이도록 경고할 것이다.약 12시간 동안 편집이 안 된 것 같으니, 아마 네가 이걸 올린 이후로 오프라인 상태였을 거야. 하지만 이걸로 계속 편집이 된다면 알려줘.GirthSummit (blether) 15:18, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그레이엄87, 음, 나는 그들의 토크 페이지 중 2센트를 줬어.어디 보자.만약 그것이 진행된다면 나는 우리가 그들이 이해하지도, 관심도 없다고 생각할 수 있다고 생각한다.어느 쪽이든 추가 조치가 필요할 것이다.곧 알게 될 거야!글렌 15:24, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
사용자:111.125.119.6
| 차단됨 | |
| 111.125.119.6은 임블란터(비관리자 폐쇄) ~ Amkgp 💬 04:13, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)[에 의해 3개월간 차단되었다. | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕. 나는 이 IP 주소의 사용자 토크 페이지 편집 권한을 차단하기 위해 관리자에게 도움을 요청하고 싶어.이 IP는 지난 월요일 3개월 동안 차단되었지만 반달은 계속해서 사용자들의 대화 페이지를 편집하고 필리핀의 폭리를 게시하고 있다(여기 참조).나는 이전에 AIV에 이것을 게시한 적이 있지만 나의 요청은 정화 봇에 의해 자동으로 제거되고 있다.미리 고마워. -WayKurat (대화) 10:11, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
사용자:Rt0103
| El C. NAC 자바허리케인 08:17, 2020년 7월 3일(UTC에 의해 일주일 동안 차단[응답] |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
인신공격.편집 요약에서 "stupid and moron"을 호출하는 사용자 이름 - 여기-1을 참조하고 편집자 대화 페이지에 개인 atack에 대한 경고를 표시했다 - 여기-2를 참조하십시오.그는 내 토크 시대에 대한 메시지를 썼고 나는 그들의 메시지에 내 토크 페이지에 답장을 보냈고 그들에게 인신공격은 그만하고 다른 편집자를 예의 바르게 대하는 것이 위키백과 교장의 다섯 가지 기둥 중 하나이므로 WP:5P4 "를 고수하라고 알렸다. 여기 -3 참조.Rt0103은 내 토크 페이지에서 다시 개인 첨부를 계속했다. 여기 4를 참조하십시오.Editor는 2020년 2월에 블록을 받았다. 자세한 내용은 5번 여기를 참조하십시오. 카시오페이아(talk) 04:06, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
차단됨 – 1주일의 기간 동안 차단됨.El_C 04:36, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
자진신고
그렇지 않으면 나는 오늘 누군가가 그것을 할 것이라고 확신한다.{{Infobox 러시아인이 거주하는 지역}}}}은(는) 2년 전에 TfD로 옮겨져 삭제(포장지로 전환)되었는데, 나의 반대 위키백과:토론/Log/2018년 11월 3일 템플릿:인포박스 러시아인이 거주하고 있는 지역한 달 전 나는 새로운 버전이 위키다타로부터 비소싱적이고 추측컨대 잘못된 데이터를 수입한다는 것을 발견했고(아마 {{인포박스정산}}이 그렇게 되기 때문임) 이 데이터는 기사당 덮어쓰지 않는 한 영어 위키백과에 표시된다.나는 WP에서 주제를 열었다.VP/P(Wikipedia:마을 펌프(정책)/아카이브 158#템플릿:인포박스 러시아인이 거주하고 있는 지역성, 위키다타, 검증가능성)과 함께 나온 제안은 다음과 같은 위키백과 토크에 가자는 것이었다.위키다타 입니다내가 그랬어, 위키피디아의 대화:위키다타#템플릿:Infobox Russian이 거주하고 있는 지역성과 나쁜 데이터의 수입으로 인해 RexSS는 템플릿의 토크 페이지에서 주제를 열었다.두 명의 유저와 나는 이것이 문제라고 말하고 아무도 반대하지 않는 등 참여가 거의 없었다.주제가 3주 동안 열려 2주 동안 새로운 반응이 없었고, 오늘 나는 템플릿을 다시 TfD 이전 상태로 되돌렸다.이것은 TfD의 합의와 명백히 어긋나는 것이지만, 나는 이 두 가지 요소가 어떻게 우리 프로젝트의 초석 중 하나인 WP:V 위에 있을 수 있는지 모르겠다.나는 내가 WP:V를 시행하기 위해 무엇을 할 수 있었는지 잘 모르겠다.원칙적으로는 이것(위키다타에서 템플릿의 위키백과 영역으로 소싱되지 않았거나 소싱된 것)은 {{인포박스정산}}의 일반적인 문제로서 아마도 고쳐져야 할 필요가 있을 것이다(이후 편집이 롤백될 수 있음). 그러나 어떻게 하면 심신건강을 위태롭게 하지 않고 고칠 수 있는지 알 수 없다.--Ymblanter (토크) 07:22, 2020년 7월 1일 1일)(UTC)[하라
- 임블란터, 짜증나는: 기술적 순수성과 사실적 정확성.나는 사실의 정확성이 승리해야 한다고 생각한다.가이(도움말!) 09:34, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 내가 보기에, 이번 2020년 토론에서의 합의는 2018년 토론에서의 합의보다 우선한다.특이한 것은, 항상 일어나는 일이다(WP:CCC).2020년 컨센서스를 구현해줘서 고마워.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 18:02, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 안타까운 것은 위키다타에서 소싱된 정보만을 끌어내는 infobox를 만드는 것이 완벽하게 가능하지만, infobox를 변환하는 편집자들은 그렇게 하지 않기로 선택해서 WP:V를 위반할 수 있고 위키피디아에서 발견된 합의와 명백히 모순된다는 것이다.Wikidata/2018 Infobox RfC #토론 :
"Wikidata에서 데이터를 사용
하고자 한다면, 이데이터의 신뢰성에 대해 명확한 확신이 있어야 한다."
--RexS (대화) 21:17, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[- 일어난 일은 정확하고 정확하게 내가 TFD에서 말한 것이다.내 주장은 내가 이러한 템플릿으로 작업하는 사용자여서 다른 사용자들은 은퇴하거나 비활성화된다는 것이었다.나는 오래된 템플릿이 무엇을 하고 있는지 알고 있었고, 그것이 잘 작동하고 있다는 것을 알고 있었다.그리고 나는 지금 새로운 템플릿이 어떻게 작동하는지 모른다.많은 사용자들이 획일성을 이유로 투표했고(이것은 위키백과 정책도 아니다) 템플리트를 내가 전혀 모르는 것으로 변환했다.그 후 그들은 다른 사업을 시작했고, 나 외에는 아무도 유지하지 않는 약 5천개의 기사에 나는 일하지 않는 템플릿이 남겨졌다.변환된 템플릿의 첫 번째 버전은 약 반년 동안 잘못된 지도를 보여주고 있었고, 나는 그것을 새로운 기사에 추가하는 것을 중단했다.그리고 이제서야 비로소 좋은 생각이 아니란 것을 알게 되었지만, 언젠가는 다시 TfD로 끌려갈 것이 확실하고, 또 다시 획일성 명목으로 나에게 부과된 수많은 기술적 문제들로 남게 될 것이다.---임블란터 (대화) 09:23, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 안타까운 것은 위키다타에서 소싱된 정보만을 끌어내는 infobox를 만드는 것이 완벽하게 가능하지만, infobox를 변환하는 편집자들은 그렇게 하지 않기로 선택해서 WP:V를 위반할 수 있고 위키피디아에서 발견된 합의와 명백히 모순된다는 것이다.Wikidata/2018 Infobox RfC #토론 :
시스템 게임, 신뢰할 수 없는 소스 추가
| 콘텐츠 분쟁 | |
| 지금은 관리자 작업이 필요하지 않다.가이(도움말!) 09:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
IP 편집기 2600:1702:2700:E880:C191:5783:9F51:기사에 신뢰할 수 없는 출처를 반복적으로 사용하고 있는 BF76.IP 편집자는 또 다른 정책인 WP:NPOV, WP를 푸려면:신뢰할 수 없는.그냥 단순하게 편집하는 거야지식열차 (토크) 02:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)
나 또한 편집자가 독창적인 연구도 추가했다는 것을 언급하는 것을 잊었나?지식열차 (토크) 02:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)
편집자는 현재 WP:BLP라는 또 다른 정책을 사용하여 WP:BLP:신뢰할 수 없는 WP:NOR 정책.지식열차 (토크) 02:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)
어떻게 그녀 자신의 트위터 계정이 주요 정보원이 아닐 수 있을까?지원자가 지지자임을 부인했기 때문에 당신은 이것을 포함시킴으로써 명예훼손 소송에 위키피디아를 개방하고 있다.위키피디아는 중립적이어야 하는데 이 기사는 분명히 그렇지 않다.내가 편집한 주요 자료도 포함했어 네가 무슨 말을 하고 있는지 모르겠어2600:1702:2700:E880:C191:5783:9F51:BF76 (대화) 02:18, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
그녀 자신의 트위터 계정은 주요 출처로서, 기사에 주요 출처를 사용하는 것은 독창적인 연구에 해당한다.위키피디아에서는 원본 연구가 허용되지 않는다. 왜냐하면 이런 종류의 콘텐츠는 검증가능하다고 여겨지지 않기 때문이다.그녀가 QAnon과 관련이 없다고 부인하는 클레임을 포함하려면 신뢰할 수 있는 보조 소스를 찾거나 클레임을 전혀 포함하지 마십시오.지식열차 (토크) 02:23, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
나를 포함한 다른 편집자들에게 법적 위협을 가한 것에 대해 이미 경고했소.이 중단적인 편집을 계속하면 차단된다.지식열차 (토크) 02:27, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
그래서 NYT가 주장을 꾸며냈다는 것은 자신의 말을 통해 부인하더라도 받아들여지는 자신의 주장을 부인하는 또 다른 기사를 써야 한다는 것을 의미한다.내 말은 그것은 내가 지금까지 2600:1702:2700:E880:C191:5783:9F51:BF76 (토크) 02:37, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라고 한 가장 멍청한 것 중 하나여야 한다는 것이다.
또한 그녀의 트위터는 그렇게 검증되었다: 믿을만한 소식통으로서:가끔은 노타베네.특정 트윗은 스스로 발행하는 주요 출처로 유용할 수 있다.트위터는 유명인사와 다른 주목할 만한 사람들의 계정을 식별하기 위해 검증된 계정 메커니즘을 포함하고 있다; 이것은 트위터 메시지의 신뢰성을 판단할 때 고려되어야 한다.따라서 이에 따라 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로 간주되어야 한다.2600:1702:2700:E880:C191:5783:9F51:BF76 (대화) 02:41, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- WP에 따라 트위터를 인용할 수 있다.트위터.이게 내용 논쟁처럼 들리니?레비비치[dubious – discuss] 03:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 레비비히의 말이 맞지만, 이 경우에는 해석이 어렵기 때문에 여전히 그 게시물을 보고하는 데 문제가 있을 수 있다.우리는 그것이 무엇을 의미하는지 언급하기 위해 여전히 2차적인 출처가 필요할지도 모른다.그리고 이것은 콘텐츠 논쟁이다.다음 사항을 기억하십시오.ANI에서 우리는 내용이 아닌 기고자에 대해 논평을 한다.EENG 04:03, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
이게 왜 괜찮은 거지?
| 친애하는 DEITY에게.가장 친절한 것 같아서 나는 일단 외설했다.가이 (도움말!) 10:37, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
| OP에서 멈추겠다고 하던데그들의 말을 믿읍시다.동작이 계속되면 ANI를 여십시오.에버그린피르 (대화) 05:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
| 퀴어 | |
| 시기적절하지 않다.당신은 아마도 위키백과에서 이것을 논의할 수 있을 것이다.위키백과 표지판가이(도움말!) 00:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
난 여기서 마크업 때문에 별로 신경 안 쓸 거야.미안해, 너무 피곤해서 신경 쓸 수가 없어.https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2019-02-28/Humour&diff=885668498&oldid=885667368
이것은 1년이 넘었지만 여전히 관련 질문에 대한 답을 가지고 있다.
왜 이것이 애초에 출판되었을까?
왜 그것은 비어있었지만, 핵은 아니었을까?
왜 그것을 출판한 편집자나 그것을 허락한 The Signpost의 편집자에 대한 처벌은 없었는가?확실히 그것은 이곳의 모든 트랜스 편집자에 대한 인신공격이다.만약 내가 여기 있는 어떤 시스 사람 페이지에 들어가서 내가 시스 사람들을 싫어하고 그들이 인간 이하의 사람들이라고 생각하는 방법에 대해 이야기하기 시작한다면, 나는 차단될 것이다.
위키피디아는 이와 같은 콘텐츠가 다시는 The Signpost에 오르지 않도록 하기 위해 무엇을 하고 있는가?
위키백과(및 위키미디어 재단)는 트랜스 공포증을 분명히 조장하고 묵인하는, 그들이 만든 환경에 도전하기 위해 무엇을 하고 있는가?트랜스 피플을 서브휴먼처럼 취급하지 말라'는 환경이 검열로 비쳐지는가?
여기가 아니면 미안한데, 이걸 어디에 올려야 할지 모르겠어.
위키피디아는 트랜스 공포증에 분명히 문제가 있고, 그것에 대해 아무 조치도 취해지지 않고 있다. 왜일까?코미디라고 불러도 괜찮아?상처는 상처, 학대는 학대다.웃기다고 해도 상관없어, 머저리라는 건 여전히 똥꾸러기야.
3nk1namshub (대화) 23:33, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[하라
또한, 더 "잘 말하는" 사람이 되지 못한 것에 대해 사과한다.나는 힘이 없고 더 이상 신경 쓸 수가 없어.내가 여기서 주목한 지 일주일밖에 안 됐는데 여기 트랜스포비아 문제가 끔찍하다는 건 확실해.너희들은 더 다양한 편집 인구를 원하지만, 그것을 가능하게 하는 환경을 조성하기 위해 아무것도 하지 않는다.
당신은 세계에서 가장 큰 정보 저장소를 만들었다.여기서 사람들을 안전하게 하는 것은 당신의 책임이다. 3nk1namshub (대화) 23:35, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 삭제 논쟁:위키백과:삭제/Wikipedia용 miscellany:위키백과 간판포스트/2019-02-28/휴먼펜스&Windows 23:38, 2020년 7월 2일(UTC)[
- 솔직히 말하면, 난 상관없어.내가 말했듯이, 너는 트랜스 공포증의 환경을 조성했다.물론 투표만 하면 삭제되는 건 아니고, 여기 있는 사람들은 인정하든 안 하든 편파적인 사람들이야.결코 출판되어서는 안되었고, 그것만으로도 누킹의 경우로 충분해야 했다.3nk1namshub (대화) 23:42, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 오늘은 뇌가 제대로 작동하지 않아서 다른 편집으로 추가했어."삭제하지 말라"는 모든 주장은 "무어 검열"이다.기본적인 인간의 존엄성을 가진 사람들을 대하는 것이 검열이라고 생각한다면, 소년 내가 어떻게 소식을 전할 수 있을까. 3nk1namshub (토크) 23:46, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 질문에도 답이 나왔고, 이것은 1년이 훨씬 넘었기 때문에 긴급한 (시간적으로) ANI를 위한 논의가 아니다.누군가는 이걸 닫아야 할거야데니스 브라운 - 2시간 23분 52초, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 내가 한 말을 네가 시간 내서 읽었는지 잘 모르겠어.적어도 내가 게시했어야 할 곳을 알려줬으면 좋았을 텐데.3nk1namshub (대화) 23:53, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[하라
고정을 하지 않은 트랜스 공포증 소문은 재미있지 않다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost#Why_is_this_ok%3F
스쿼드가 남긴 댓글.원.복싱은 역겹다.누군가가 소외된 것에 대해 분명히 화가 난다면, 웃음은 혐오스러운 것이다.
나는 단지 행정관이 "트랜스포비아는 나쁘다"고 말하길 원한다.3nk1namshub (대화) 03:48, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 관리자가 기여도를 검토한 후 NOTHERE 블록을 RGW SPA에 적용하시겠습니까?레비비치[dubious – discuss] 03:56, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- RGW란 무엇이며, 나는 SPA인가?만약 당신이 실제로 나의 기여를 읽는다면, 당신은 내가 많은 다른 장소에서 여러 가지 기여를 했다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.3nk1namshub (대화) 03:58, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
트랜스 공포증은 나쁘다.하루 이틀 물러나서 마음을 가라앉히고 좀 더 명쾌하게 생각할 필요가 있다고 생각한다.무스 04:02, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 트랜스 사람들이 기여하기를 원하는가, 아니면 그냥 착한 꼬마 트랜스가 되어 사람들이 우리를 공격했을 때 화내지 않기를 바라는가? 3nk1namshub (대화) 04:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 또한 트랜스포비아는 나쁘다고 말해줘서 고마워.자, 끝까지 따라갈래, 아니면 이건 그냥 화장품이야?3nk1namshub (대화) 04:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 레비비히에 동의하라; NOTHERE 블록은 백과사전을 쓰는 것을 방해할 뿐이기 때문이다.크리스 트라우트먼 (대화) 04:03, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 트랜스 공포증을 싫어해서 나를 파시스트라고 불렀는데, 나를 침묵시키려고?그것은 {fascism, sstalinism, hitlerism, 당신이 원하는 다른 유행어} 3nk1namshub (토크) 04:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[처럼 들린다.
- 사용자:3nk1namshub, 당신은 이미 위에서 시작한 실에서 그 문제가 1년 전에 지역사회에서 논의되고 해결되었다고 들었다.지금 두 개의 새 실을 동시에 열어서 무엇을 이루려고 하는지는 잘 모르겠지만, 당신의 편집 이력과 결합되어 당신이 백과사전을 짓기 위해 온 것이 아니라, 당신과 의견이 맞지 않는 모든 사람을 비난하기 위해 온 것처럼 보이게 한다.부메랑을 피하고 싶다면 스틱을 내려놓고 다음 단계로 넘어가라고 제안한다(스틱 관련 말 폭력에 대한 위키피디아의 냉담한 무시에 대해 불평하는 새로운 실을 열고 싶지 않다면).오노이트자미 04:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 그것이 우스꽝스러운 "주장"인 이유를 설명했다.나는 새로운 실을 열었고, 짐보의 토크 페이지에서 실을 열라는 권고를 받았다.그냥 사람들이 시키는 대로 하는 거야.나는 논쟁을 하는 것이 아니라 사람들이 공공연히 트랜스 공포증을 갖는 것에 화가 난다.3nk1namshub (대화) 04:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 사용자:3nk1namshub, 당신은 이미 위에서 시작한 실에서 그 문제가 1년 전에 지역사회에서 논의되고 해결되었다고 들었다.지금 두 개의 새 실을 동시에 열어서 무엇을 이루려고 하는지는 잘 모르겠지만, 당신의 편집 이력과 결합되어 당신이 백과사전을 짓기 위해 온 것이 아니라, 당신과 의견이 맞지 않는 모든 사람을 비난하기 위해 온 것처럼 보이게 한다.부메랑을 피하고 싶다면 스틱을 내려놓고 다음 단계로 넘어가라고 제안한다(스틱 관련 말 폭력에 대한 위키피디아의 냉담한 무시에 대해 불평하는 새로운 실을 열고 싶지 않다면).오노이트자미 04:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 트랜스 공포증을 싫어해서 나를 파시스트라고 불렀는데, 나를 침묵시키려고?그것은 {fascism, sstalinism, hitlerism, 당신이 원하는 다른 유행어} 3nk1namshub (토크) 04:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[처럼 들린다.
- 이것이 도움이 될 수 있다: Talk:자폐증#Semi-protected_edit_request_on 15_6월_2020.EENG 04:17, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 오래된 문제다.나는 24시간 동안 차단당했고, 관련된 모든 사람들에게 사과했다.3nk1namshub (대화) 04:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 15일은 그렇게 오래되지 않았고, 그럼에도 불구하고 유익하다.아무 일도 하지 않고 불쑥 나타나는 사람들은 그들의 긴급한 우려에 모두가 즉각적으로 참석하라고 요구하는 것 외에는 결코 좋게 끝나지 않는다.제트기를 식혀라.당신만이 피해를 본 선거구는 아니에요EENG 04:57, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 "상대적 궁핍의 오류"를 찾기 위해 인터넷을 검색하기를 제안한다.3nk1namshub (대화) 04:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 아마도 그것을 찾아보는 것이 좋을 것이다(그리고 그것을 하는 동안, 나와의 재치 싸움의 가능한 결과에 대해 주변에 물어 보라).집에서 노는 사람들에게, 상대적 궁핍의 오류는 "그것이 더 심할 수 있다"거나 "당신의 불평이 이 다른 사람의 불만만큼 심각하지 않다"는 이유로 (여기서 적용) 해고를 당한다.나는 다른 사람들의 걱정으로 인해 당신의 걱정이 사라졌다고 말하지 않았다; 나는 다른 사람들의 걱정이 타당하고 또한 관심을 받을 만하다고 지적했다. 그래서 당신이 원하는 만큼 신속하고 강렬하게, 또는 개인적으로 원하는 결과에 참여하지 않을 수도 있다.EENG 05:32, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 "상대적 궁핍의 오류"를 찾기 위해 인터넷을 검색하기를 제안한다.3nk1namshub (대화) 04:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 15일은 그렇게 오래되지 않았고, 그럼에도 불구하고 유익하다.아무 일도 하지 않고 불쑥 나타나는 사람들은 그들의 긴급한 우려에 모두가 즉각적으로 참석하라고 요구하는 것 외에는 결코 좋게 끝나지 않는다.제트기를 식혀라.당신만이 피해를 본 선거구는 아니에요EENG 04:57, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 오래된 문제다.나는 24시간 동안 차단당했고, 관련된 모든 사람들에게 사과했다.3nk1namshub (대화) 04:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- @3nk1namshub: 트랜스포비아는 용납할 수 없으며 그 페이지와 그 내용은 엉망이다.그러나 이곳은 당신이 선택해야 할 언덕이 아니다.표지판 쓰레기는 그것의 창조자와 지지자들에게 수치심의 배지가 되게 하라.에버그린피르 (대화) 04:51, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 3nk1namshub의 사용자 페이지는 기본적으로 위키피디아가 불쾌감을 주는 diff를 nucking하는 것을 거부하는 것에 대한 항의로 변했고, 그것을 만든 편집자를 "모론"이라고 부른다.WP:G10에 따라 빠른 삭제를 위해 일단 태그했다.나는 WP를 지지한다.이 사용자를 위한 부메랑 블록.슈퍼구스007 04:44, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC]
- 그들을 도우려는 사람들을 포함한 모든 사람들을 공격하고 있기 때문에, 나는 그들이 고의적인 트롤일 가능성이 있거나 적어도 여기서 편집하고 있는 역량이 부족하다고 생각하는 경향이 있다.무스 05:14, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @무스:미안, 이제 가볼게3nk1namshub (대화) 05:18, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 마지막으로 한 가지, 미안.속상해.나는 여기에 매우 살아 있는 시스템적인 문제에 화가 난다.여기가 환기를 하기에 적당한 곳인가?절대 아니다.그러나, 당신이 "troll"이나 [insert confession] 이외의 다른 선택사항을 볼 수 없다는 것은 화가 난다.내가 속상해 하는 이유가 있어, 그냥 좋은 일이 아닐 뿐이야.잘 자. 3nk1namshub (대화) 05:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- @무스:미안, 이제 가볼게3nk1namshub (대화) 05:18, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- (분쟁을 편집한다) 어떤 진부한 것은 여기 있는 사용자가 확실히 트롤이 아니라는 것을 내게 보여준다(그리고 가이 마콘은 그들을 하나로 부르거나 유괴를 은유물로 사용함으로써 큰 도움이 되지 않았다고 생각한다).남자: 아마도...그러지 마.)나는 그들이 시스템에 화가 난 합법적인 사용자라고 생각하지만 우리가 위키피디아에서 어떻게 작업하는지 이해하지 못한다.우리가 어떻게 운영하는지 깨닫지 못한 채 대규모의 제도적 변화를 요구하는 것을 처음 사용자들은 거의 하지 않았다.그들은 더위를 식히고 싶은 욕망을 표현했다.나는 그들이 돌아올 때 긍정적인 기여를 받아들일 수 있다면, 우리는 그들을 곁에 두어야 한다고 생각한다.3nk1namshub, 나는 네가 이것을 읽을 것이라고 생각한다.그렇다면 어떻게 하면 긍정적인 기여자가 될 수 있을지 생각해보길 바란다.분노는 아무것도 해결하지 못한다.하지만 다른 사람들과 함께 일하고 긍정적인 목소리를 내는 것은 그렇다.다양한 사용자가 필요하고, 다양할수록 환영받을 수 있다.만약 당신이 정말로 위키피디아를 개선하고 우리의 많은 문제들을 해결하기를 원한다면, 우리는 당신이 있다면 기쁠 것이다.하지만 변화는 느린 과정이고, 우리는 도서관 같다는 것을 깨달았으면 한다.우리는 우리의 후원자들이 예의 바르게 행동하고 소리치지 않기를 바란다.만약 네가 그 규칙들을 지키지 못한다면, 우리는 너를 쫓아낸다.그러나 WP인 경우:Civil and action with other users, 당신이 할 수 있는 일이 너무 많다.순조로운 항해입니다, 선장님Eek ⚓ 05:32, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
워링 편집
유감스럽게도 @3nk1namshub: 지금 위키백과의 대화에서 전쟁을 편집하고 있다.위키백과 표지판@JasperDung: 그리고 나는 그의 논평 제거를 되돌렸다.내가 그에게 경고했지만 그는 그것을 되돌리고 이것을 제자리에 놓았다. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 07:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 그들. 그리고 너도 알게 될거야. 난 편집을 멈추고 토크 페이지에 새로운 섹션을 올려서 너의 마지막 경고 후에 그 문제를 토론했어.
- 만약 내가 틀리지 않았다면, 나는 빈칸을 포함하여 내가 원하는 대로 내 토크 페이지를 편집할 수 있다.3nk1namshub (대화) 07:07, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 당신이 자신의 토크 페이지를 비우는 것은 잘못된 것이 아니다. 그것은 당신이 위키백과의 규칙, 지침, 그리고 일반적인 관행에 어긋난다는 것을 인식하지 않으려 한다는 것을 의미하기 때문에 나를 걱정하게 하는 것은 당신이 그 자리에 남긴 메시지보다 더 중요하다. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 07:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 내가 사과할게, 그리고 그것을 제거할 거야.같은 문제로 스팸메일을 받고 있었기 때문에 그냥 거기에 넣어두었다.3nk1namshub (대화) 07:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 고마워, 지금 너의 토크 페이지에 있는 그 댓글이 그 대립적인 댓글보다 훨씬 나아. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 07:12, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 천만에요.앞으로 나는 더 잘 맞설 수 있도록 노력할 것이다.3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (대화) 07:14, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 고마워, 지금 너의 토크 페이지에 있는 그 댓글이 그 대립적인 댓글보다 훨씬 나아. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 07:12, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 내가 사과할게, 그리고 그것을 제거할 거야.같은 문제로 스팸메일을 받고 있었기 때문에 그냥 거기에 넣어두었다.3nk1namshub (대화) 07:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- (분쟁 편집)@331namshub:자기 자신의 토크 페이지에서는 할 수 있지만, 간판 포스트의 토크 페이지는 할 수 없다.제발, 솔직한 조언 좀 해 줘-이제 WP를 그만둘 때가 됐어.이 문제에 전적으로 집착하고 다른 곳으로 옮겨가라.--Jasper Dung(토크) 07:11, 2020년 7월 3일(UTC)[
- 이제 막 문제가 시작됐어?다른 편집자가 내 자폐증을 이용해서 대리인을 제거하려고 하는 건 괜찮지 않아.소름끼치는 일이다.나는 그 문제에 대한 합의를 얻으려고 노력했지만, 당신은 그것을 닫았다.뭐가 더 좋으십니까?3nk1namshub (대화) 07:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 어떻게 당신의 "기관"을 "제거"할 수 있는가?@3nk1namshhub:스틱을 떨어뜨리는 것에 대한 나의 조언은 이것을 "새로운" 이슈로 생각하든 말든 여전히 적용된다.--Jasper Dung(토크) 07:13, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 누군가의 행동을 자폐증 탓으로 돌리는 것은 자폐증 환자에게는 진짜 문제다.그것은 우리의 행동을 현재의 감정이나 지성이 아닌 자폐증 탓으로 돌리기 때문에 우리의 기관을 제거한다.나는 조네시95의 토크 페이지에 분명히 말한 것 같다. 나는 매우 현실적인 문제에 대해 화가 났다. 나의 자폐증은 그것과 아무 관련이 없다.어쨌든, 나는 어떤 코멘트를 취소한 것에 대해 사과한다.조네시95가 응답하기를 기다렸다가 필요하면 DRN이나 ANI로 갔어야 했다. 3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (토크) 07:16, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- @3nk1namshhub:솔직히 말해서, 나는 근본적으로 이것에 동의한다; 나의 코멘트를 코멘트의 토크 페이지에서 보아라.그러나 이는 즉각 철거 기준에는 크게 못 미친다.일반적으로 이렇게 열띤 논쟁에 깊이 관여하고 있을 때는 자기 이외의 사람이 댓글을 삭제하도록 하는 것이 좋다; 당신의 판단은 객관적일 것 같지 않다.--Jasper Dung(토크) 07:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 네 말이 맞아, 다시 한 번 사과할게.나는 이 일이 끝나면 위키피디아에서 휴식을 취해서 진정하고 다시는 그런 경솔한 편집을 하지 않도록 할 것이다.3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (대화) 07:22, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- @3nk1namshhub:솔직히 말해서, 나는 근본적으로 이것에 동의한다; 나의 코멘트를 코멘트의 토크 페이지에서 보아라.그러나 이는 즉각 철거 기준에는 크게 못 미친다.일반적으로 이렇게 열띤 논쟁에 깊이 관여하고 있을 때는 자기 이외의 사람이 댓글을 삭제하도록 하는 것이 좋다; 당신의 판단은 객관적일 것 같지 않다.--Jasper Dung(토크) 07:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 누군가의 행동을 자폐증 탓으로 돌리는 것은 자폐증 환자에게는 진짜 문제다.그것은 우리의 행동을 현재의 감정이나 지성이 아닌 자폐증 탓으로 돌리기 때문에 우리의 기관을 제거한다.나는 조네시95의 토크 페이지에 분명히 말한 것 같다. 나는 매우 현실적인 문제에 대해 화가 났다. 나의 자폐증은 그것과 아무 관련이 없다.어쨌든, 나는 어떤 코멘트를 취소한 것에 대해 사과한다.조네시95가 응답하기를 기다렸다가 필요하면 DRN이나 ANI로 갔어야 했다. 3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (토크) 07:16, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 어떻게 당신의 "기관"을 "제거"할 수 있는가?@3nk1namshhub:스틱을 떨어뜨리는 것에 대한 나의 조언은 이것을 "새로운" 이슈로 생각하든 말든 여전히 적용된다.--Jasper Dung(토크) 07:13, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이제 막 문제가 시작됐어?다른 편집자가 내 자폐증을 이용해서 대리인을 제거하려고 하는 건 괜찮지 않아.소름끼치는 일이다.나는 그 문제에 대한 합의를 얻으려고 노력했지만, 당신은 그것을 닫았다.뭐가 더 좋으십니까?3nk1namshub (대화) 07:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 당신이 자신의 토크 페이지를 비우는 것은 잘못된 것이 아니다. 그것은 당신이 위키백과의 규칙, 지침, 그리고 일반적인 관행에 어긋난다는 것을 인식하지 않으려 한다는 것을 의미하기 때문에 나를 걱정하게 하는 것은 당신이 그 자리에 남긴 메시지보다 더 중요하다. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 07:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 이에 대한 조치를 취하기로 결정한 모든 관리자에게 보내는 메시지.나는 최소한 며칠 블록 정도는 있어야 진정할 수 있을 텐데.위키피디아에 있든 없든 나는 매우 힘든 하루를 보냈다.그건 물론 변명이 아니라 설명일 뿐이다.인터넷과 떨어져 있는 시간이 도움이 될 것 같고, 블록이 나로 하여금 그렇게 하도록 강요할 것이다.고마워. 3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (토크) 07:26, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 우리가 여기서 소크푸펫을 다루고 있다고 강하게 의심한다.사용자 대화:가이 마콘#가이 떨어져 있어. --Guy Macon (대화) 07:30, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뭐라고?처음엔 트롤이었는데 이젠 양말?좋아, 부탁 하나만 들어주고 체크유저를 불러줘(내 스스로 어떻게 해야 할지 잘 모르겠어)IP 하나와 계정 하나에서만 편집한 적이 있다.나는 네가 근거 없는 주장을 하는 것을 그만두면 고맙겠다.나와 문제가 있으면 증거로 뒷받침해 줘.소환 @대장Eek: 당신을 가볍게 꾸짖은 사용자로서.아마도 "warn"은 적절한 단어가 아니었을 것이다.3nk1namshub (그들/그들) (대화) 07:36, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 존경심을 가지고, @Guy Macon: 나는 당신이 여기서 계속 관여하는 것이 도움이 될 것 같지 않다고 생각한다.나는 그들이 양말이라고 생각하지 않는다; 그것은 순간적인 발언일 가능성이 더 높다.나는 많은 양말푸펫을 다루는데 그것들은 하나 아닌 것 같다.--Jasper Dung (토크) 07:43, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집자가 양말이나 트롤이라고 생각하는 경향이 없다.나는 걱정거리가 없다고 생각하지만 전 두 가지는 아니다.코백베어 (토크) 08:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 재스퍼 덩의 추천으로, 여기에서의 마지막 코멘트가 되겠지만, 나는 삭푸페리의 증거가 설득력이 있다고 생각한다:[52]
- "나한테서 떨어져 있으라고 부탁했소."그 당시 3nk1namshub는 나에게 그들로부터 떨어져 있으라고 한 적이 없었다.어쩌면 이전 정체성이 나에게 물었을까?
- "여러 번 경고를 받았구나."그 당시 나는 3nk1namshub에 대한 경고나 경고를 전혀 받지 않았었다.어쩌면 나는 이전의 정체성에 대해 경고를 받은 것이 아닐까?
- "내 토크 페이지를 스팸 발송하지 마십시오."한 가지 경고는 스팸이 아니다.내가 이전 신분을 경고한 게 아닐까?
- "신체에 해를 끼치길 바라지 마"나는 상호작용 분석기에서 이러한 반응을 유발할 수 있는 어떤 것도 찾을 수 없으며, 만약 3nk1namshub가 실제로 육체적 위해를 바라는 것과 약간 비슷한 어떤 것도 받았다면 그것에 대해 논평하지 못했을 것이라고 믿지 않는다.
- 이것들은 7시간 전까지만 해도 나와 어떤 식으로든 교류한 적이 없는 편집자의 말이 아니다.그것들은 나와 이전에 갈등을 겪었던 누군가의 말이고, 지금은 새로운 정체성을 사용하고 있으며, 각각의 계정을 사용하여 무슨 말을 했는지 잊어버린 것이다.
- 하지만, 내가 말했듯이, 이것은 이 주제에 대한 나의 마지막 게시물이 될 것이다.공식적으로 밝히기 위해 나는 이제 3nk1namshub에게 나를 내버려 두라고 부탁한다.나는 3nk1namshub에 관해서도 똑같이 할 것이다.내 토크 페이지에 올리지 마.다른 편집자에게 보내는 내 의견에 회신하지 마십시오.내 이름을 들먹이지 마라.나한테 핑계를 대지 마.만약 3nk1namshub가 나를 내버려두지 못한다면, 나는 관리자에게 경고를 부탁한다--나는 응답하지 않을 것이다. --Guy Macon (대화) 09:07, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- (갈등 편집) 재스퍼 덩의 추천으로, 여기에서의 마지막 코멘트가 되겠지만, 나는 삭푸페리의 증거가 설득력이 있다고 생각한다:[52]
- 3nk1namshub는 JzG에 의해 WP로서 외설된 것으로 보인다.NOTHERE Missicdan (대화) 09:54, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자:잘 놀아라.
| 토크 페이지 접속이 취소됨. -- LuK3 (Talk) 21:55, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자가 나와 사용자를 향해 인신공격 중그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 Luk3.관리자가 TPA를 취소할 수 있는가?슈퍼구스007 21:25, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC]
조셉 벤티
| MelanieN(비관리자 폐쇄) ~ Amkgp del 04:24, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 기사의 역사, 토크 페이지, 내 토크 페이지에는 최근 BLP 위반이 있다.나는 대부분의 기사를 썼다.나는 지금 회사에 늦었다.다른 관리자가 필요에 따라 다시 배달할 수 있는가?고마워요.컬렌328 16:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
사용자 Lilipo25 반복적이고 지속적인 실행 문제
| 두 사용자 모두 더 잘 응축해야 하며, 항상 증거를 가지고 서로에 대한 주장을 뒷받침해야 한다.뉴임파트먼트도 콘텐츠 분쟁을 개인화하지 말라는 경고를 받고 있다.El_C 23:43, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 사용자에 대한 이전 ANI 다음에 이 ANI를 여십시오.불행히도 그들의 행동은 그 이후로 개선되지 않았고, 최근에는 특히 나빴다.행실을 둘러싼 나 자신에게서 나오는 주된 불평은 거짓 고발과 불필요한 반목이 반복되고 있는데, 이를테면 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기서 볼 수 있다.많은 다른 편집자들 또한 이러한 행동을 경험했지만, 나의 개인적인 경험은 반복적이고 지속적인 학대 중 하나였으며, 내가 위에 주어진 예에서 증명된 것처럼 무한한 예의와 인내로 대응할 수 있도록 최선을 다했다.이전의 ANI는 일반적으로 콘텐츠 논쟁으로 간주되었지만, 나는 그렇지 않다고 주장했지만, 나는 이것이 기사와 편집자에 걸쳐 있기 때문에 콘텐츠의 문제가 아니라 행동의 문제라는 것이 이제 분명하다고 생각한다.예전처럼, 나는 릴리포가 금지되거나 비슷한 행동을 하는 것을 원하지 않는다. 하지만 나는 우리 모두가 그래야 한다고 생각하는 것처럼, 이 행동을 절대적으로 멈추기를 원한다.누구든 이런 식으로 다른 사람을 학대하는 것은 용납될 수 없다.나는 그들의 행동에 의해 야기된 거대하고 불필요한 고통을 잃으면서 우리가 위키피디아에 대한 릴리포의 기여를 유지할 수 있는 어떤 방법이든 환영한다.위키디템 (대화) 17:16, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 언급할 가치가 있다고 생각하는 두 가지 긍정적인 점.첫째로, 지난 ANI에 이어, 나를 향한 어떠한 욕설적인 행동도 하지 않는 평온한 초기 시기가 있었다.둘째로, 한 번 허위 고소가 제기되면, 이것은 사실이 아니라고 말한 후에 철회되었다.이 두 가지 예는 우리에게 작업할 것을 주고, 사용자가 선의의 편집자임을 충분히 증명해 준다고 생각한다.위키디템 (대화) 17:35, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 위키디템은 또 다른 ANI로 나를 위협했고(5월에 그들이 나에게 열어준 ANI가 실패해서 그들은 나에게 아무런 제재도 없을 것이라고 들은 후) 나는 그들에게 계속하라고 말했다. 왜냐하면 나는 위키디엠과 다른 편집자가 나와 나를 태그팀이나 나를 괴롭힐 때마다 ANI의 협박에 의해 굴복하는 것을 거부하기 때문이다.같은 세 명의 편집자(뉴임파티얼, 바스툰, 위키디템)가 그레이엄 라인한 페이지에 계속 태그테이트를 했기 때문에 나는 떠났고 그들 중 두 명인 위키디템과 뉴임파티알은 내가 편집하고 있던 다른 페이지인 프레드 사르간트로 따라갔고, 편집 전쟁을 계속했다.나는 WP에 대해 Girth Summit의 토크 페이지에 다음과 같은 메시지를 남겼다.HURKING 그리고 그것은 더 나빠졌다.거스 서밋은 그동안 사르겐트 페이지에서 분쟁을 중재하려 했고, 거기에 집중하라고 했지만 위키디템은 내가 선례를 따르지 않으면 나에게 ANI를 개설하겠다고 협박해 왔기 때문에 나는 계속 진행하라고 했다.괴롭힘과 협박에 지쳤다.
- 나는 이것이 말 그대로 다른 태그팀인 뉴림파티알에서 끝난 마지막 것만큼 수영적으로 진행될 것이라고 확신하는데, 나(유대인)는 나치가 유대인을 살해하도록 내버려둔 사람들과 똑같고, 나는 트랜스젠더 사람들이 살해되기를 원한다는 것을 암시한다(이 증거의 증거는 내가 트랜스젠더들에 대한 범죄에 대해 아무 말도 하지 않았다는 것이었다).그것과 무관한 논의.분명히 위키디템은 일부 관리자가 더 좋아하는 결과를 제공할 때까지 이러한 ANI를 계속 열 것이다.자, 또 시작합시다.릴리포25 (대화) 17:47, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 릴리포, 말 그대로 모든 게 너에 관한 건 아니야.지난 ANI에서 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력과 학대가 진짜라는 것을 인식할 수 있는 기회를 많이 줬는데, 특히 성폭력이 다른 사람들에게 행해지는 동안 당신이 어떻게 지냈는지를 지적한 겁니다.이것이 당신의 유대인의 정체성과 무슨 관계가 있는지는 내게 분명하지 않다.어쨌든, 마지막 ANI로 돌아가 맥락을 재구성하고 싶지 않은 사람들을 위해 이걸 여기에 두는 겁니다.Newimpartial (대화) 18:29, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴림파탈, 지난 ANI에서 Girth Summit으로부터 아주 분명하게 경고받으셨죠? 지난 번 ANI에서 당신이 말한 것처럼, 내가 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 언급하지 않았기 때문에, 그것은 내가 트랜스 사람들이 "폭행을 당하고 살해되기를" 원한다는 것을 의미한다고.그리고 당신은 또한 ANI에서 추악한 발언을 했는데, 그 이유는 내가 트랜스플이 강간당하고 살해되는 것에 대해 이야기하지 않았기 때문이다: (문자: "릴리포25, 나는 역사적으로 그들이 불신임하는 단체들로부터의 폭력에 대해 "전혀" 진술하지 않았던 사람들이 생각난다.네가 내 입장을 말해줘.") 릴리포25 (대화) 19:18, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 이것이 결국 여기에 오게 되어 실망스럽다.내 생각에 우리는 Fred Sargeant talk 페이지에서 진전을 이루고 있었고, 모든 당사자들이 어느 정도 타협을 받아들이고 콘텐츠에 초점을 맞추면서 토론을 통해 논쟁의 여지가 있는 내용의 버전을 간신히 얻어냈던 것 같다.나는 그 당사자들이 내 토크 페이지에 있는 화려한 실에 대해 서로 언급하기 보다는 거기서 참여하도록 격려함으로써 그들이 함께 생산적으로 편집하는 것을 도울 수 있기를 바랐다.우리가 진보하고 있는 것 같았을 때 여기서 한 가닥이 올라오는 것을 보게 되어 유감이다. 만약 내가 이 포스트에서 한 오타에 의해 촉발된 것이라면, 나는 그것에 대해 다시 한번 사과한다.GirthSummit (blether) 18:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴림파티알에 의한 성명 - 릴리포는 위에서 내가 "그들을 따라" 프레드 사르간트 "그리고 전쟁 편집"을 시작했다고 말했다.이것은 사건의 균형 잡힌 요약이 아니다.필자는 이 페이지를 한동안 지켜보다가 릴리포가 이 주제의 반트랜스젠더 활동주의에 소스화된 내용을 다시 추가하기 전까지는 관여하지 않았다. 도전할 때 릴리포는 토크 페이지에 참여하지 않고 계속해서 내용을 삭제했다.위키디템이 릴리포스 중 하나를 대체할 다른 소스를 추가했을 때, 후자는 이 새로운 소재가 추가되면서 다시 두 번, 토크에 의미 있는 참여 없이 되돌아갔다.(릴리포는 1, 2차 환원 성단 사이, 그리고 2차 성단 이후, 의미 있는 토론에 참여했다.)여러 페이지에 걸쳐 상황을 만드는 데 있어 그들의 행동(POV 편집 및 되돌림)의 역할을 보지 못한 채 겉으로 보기에 이 일련의 사건들을 "아직 다른 페이지로 따라간다" "계속 편집 전쟁"이라고 기술하는 것이 릴리포의 대화에 대한 접근법의 전형이다.Newimpartial (대화) 18:41, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴림파티얼, 그 사르겐트 페이지를 편집하지 않고 얼마나 오랫동안 따라다녔는지 궁금하군.당신은 라인한 RFC에 대한 우리의 의견 불일치 직후에 그곳에 나타났고, 내가 당신과 위키디엠에 의해 태그테이트를 받는 것을 더 이상 받아들일 수 없어서 포기하고 떠났을 때.그리고 당신은 내가 편집하고 있는 라인한 기사에 나타났고, 밴쿠버 강간 위기 센터에 대한 다른 기사에 대해 우리가 동의하지 않은 직후에 당신은 한번도 편집한 적이 없었다.매번 내가 다른 페이지에서 당신과 의견이 다른 후 내가 편집하는 모든 페이지에 관심을 갖게 된 것은 단지 우연의 일치라고 당신은 주장한다.— Lilipo25가 추가한 사전 서명되지 않은 설명(대화 • 기여)
- 뉴임파티얼, 정말.릴리포25는 몇몇 설득력 있는 주장을 한다.El_C 22:30, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 앞서 말한 것처럼 반트랜스 활동가들은 내가 많은 페이지를 따라다니는 분야 중 하나이다.그래, 릴리포는 이런 것들을 만들어내거나 알려 주기도 했지만, 이 부분에 대한 나의 편집 관심은 오래전부터 있어.나는 이러한 반트랜스 활동가와 단체, 그들의 토크 페이지, 편집자의 토크 페이지, 그리고 ANI와 관련된 편집 이외에는 결코 릴리포와 교류한 적이 없다.나는 그들의 POV가 문제가 되는 이 영역 밖에서 릴리포의 편집에 관심을 보인 적이 없다(이 논의에서 다른 곳에서 증명했듯이, 디프(diff)를 가지고.그러므로 나는 지난 1년 동안 릴루포가 나에게 던진 많은 비난들 중에서 호킹(혹은 "왕따"나 "가스라이팅"이나 "다보"를 한 적이 없다.Newimpartial (대화) 22:44, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴임파티얼, 정말.릴리포25는 몇몇 설득력 있는 주장을 한다.El_C 22:30, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 잘 아시겠지만, 위키백과에서 신뢰할 수 없는 출처로 기재된 미디엄 블로그에서 가져왔기 때문에 자료가 삭제되었다.게다가, 그 블로그는 NPOV를 시도하지 않았다.당신은 소스를 개선하지 않고 반복적으로 나의 편집을 되돌렸고, 내가 당신의 변경사항의 대부분을 포기하고 더 나은 소스를 사용하게 했을 때, 섹션은 남겨졌다.넌 그것에 동의했어.그러자 역시 사르겐트 페이지를 편집한 적이 없었던 위키디템이 즉시 뛰어들어 섹션에 남아 있던 내 편집의 소량을 삭제했고 거기서 또 다른 편집 전쟁을 촉발시킨 편파적인 언어를 다시 삽입했다.거스 서밋이 개입되어 우리에게 되돌리지 말고 논의하라고 말한 후에도 당신은 먼저 논의하지 않고 계속 구간을 변경했다.이제 나는 다시 타협했고 우리는 그 부분에 대한 편집에 동의했다.
- 나는 지난 ANI에서 했던 당신처럼 당신의 제안으로 모욕과 괴롭힘을 당하지 않을 것임을 분명히 하고 싶다 나치가 유태인을 살해하도록 내버려둔 사람들(그들 중 일부는 내 가족이었다)과 같은 존재에 대해, 또는 150년 동안 유태인의 대량학살을 단성 목욕을 원하는 여성에 비유한 "화장실 포그롬"에 대한 기괴한 묘사와 함께 말이다방이나, 내가 트랜스 사람들에 대한 범죄에 대해 아무 말도 하지 않았기 때문에 트랜스 사람들이 죽기를 원한다는 거짓 주장과 함께.지난 번엔 예의와 비슷한 걸 훨씬 넘어섰는데 절대 허락되지 말았어야 했어릴리포25 (대화) 19:00, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 릴리포, 당신은 Fred Sargeant, Graham Linehan, 밴쿠버 강간 구제 여성 보호소 등 관련 단체 기사와 반트랜스 운동가들의 BLP를 화이트워싱하기 위해 POV 편집 작업을 반복해 왔다.이런 맥락에서, 나는 당신이 그러한 POV로 편집한 페이지들이 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력에 기여하는 믿을 만한 출처에서 고발되었기 때문에 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 묵인하는지를 묻는 것이 타당하다고 생각한다.만약 당신이 그것을 용납하지 않는다고 말한다면, 나는 그것을 받아들일 것이고, 그 특정한 문제는 중단될 것이다.Newimpartial (대화) 19:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그럼에도 불구하고 당신은 지난 ANI에서 했던 것과 똑같은 터무니없는 비난을 하고, Girth Summit이 당신에게 ANI는 "불미스러운" 것이며, 다시는 하지 말라고 특별히 말한 것이다.내가 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 원한다고 비난하는 것은 비열하고 명예훼손적이다.위키피디아에서 페이지마다 따라다니면서 쉬지 않고 나를 괴롭히는 게 바로 이거야.나는 네가 어떻게 아무런 영향도 미치지 않고 계속 도망치는지 이해할 수 없다.릴리포25 (대화) 19:22, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로, 잠재적 특성화 "비열한" 것을 발견하는 사람들은 특성화와 관련된 행동의 과정을 비난한다.릴리포, 당신은 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 비난하십니까?Newimpartial (대화) 19:54, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 새로운 부분, 나는 이 문제에 편을 들지 않고 중재하고 긍정적인 기여를 장려하기 위해 꽤 열심히 노력해왔다.나는 여전히 그것을 하고 싶지만, 나는 이것이 너에게 불합리하다고 말해야 해.릴리포25는 그녀가 어떤 식으로든 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 지지할 것이라고 제안하는 어떠한 것도 하지 않았다.당신이 그녀에게 그런 취지의 진술을 반복해서 부탁하는 것은 매우 이해하기 어렵다.당신은 당신이 TERF라고 불리는 사람들에 대한 폭력과 죽음의 위협을 비난한다는 취지의 진술을 한 적이 없다 - 나는 당신이 그렇게 하라고 요구하는 것은 완전히 불필요하고 완전히 무례한 것이라고 생각한다.나는 네가 왜 이 선을 따라 내려가는지 이해가 안 가.GirthSummit (blether) 20:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 TERF에 대한 폭력을 강력히 비난한다.그것은 내가 양심의 가책을 받아 하는 것이 어렵지 않다.게다가 나는 TERF에 대한 폭력을 묵인하거나 묵인하는 방식으로 기사를 편집하지도 않을 것이다.이것은 직설적인 것 같다.
- 한편, 나는 요청에 따라 다른 것을 공급하게 되어 기쁘다 - 릴리포는 그들의 동맹국들이 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장하는 동안 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력 촉진이나 "빈둥빈둥"을 포함한 반트랜스 어젠다를 가진 개인과 단체에 대한 기사를 반복해서 희화화화시켰다.릴리포의 편집은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 제거하고, 존재하지 않는 곳에 편견이 있다고 비난했으며, NPOV와 BLP 정책을 위반하여 기사의 주제의 견해를 지나치게 무시하는 기사로 쓰여졌다.그러므로 이런 맥락에서, 그리고 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력이 그들이 더 동정심을 가지고 있는 다른 집단들에 대한 폭력과 암묵적으로 비교될 때 릴리포에게 나타나는 분노의 정도를 고려할 때, 나는 왜 내가 이 (그리고 이전의) ANI 논의와 관련된 반트랜스 폭력에 대한 릴리포의 입장을 "이해하기 어렵다"고 생각하지 않는다.Newimpartial (대화) 20:33, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 새로운 부분, 나는 이 문제에 편을 들지 않고 중재하고 긍정적인 기여를 장려하기 위해 꽤 열심히 노력해왔다.나는 여전히 그것을 하고 싶지만, 나는 이것이 너에게 불합리하다고 말해야 해.릴리포25는 그녀가 어떤 식으로든 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 지지할 것이라고 제안하는 어떠한 것도 하지 않았다.당신이 그녀에게 그런 취지의 진술을 반복해서 부탁하는 것은 매우 이해하기 어렵다.당신은 당신이 TERF라고 불리는 사람들에 대한 폭력과 죽음의 위협을 비난한다는 취지의 진술을 한 적이 없다 - 나는 당신이 그렇게 하라고 요구하는 것은 완전히 불필요하고 완전히 무례한 것이라고 생각한다.나는 네가 왜 이 선을 따라 내려가는지 이해가 안 가.GirthSummit (blether) 20:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로, 잠재적 특성화 "비열한" 것을 발견하는 사람들은 특성화와 관련된 행동의 과정을 비난한다.릴리포, 당신은 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 비난하십니까?Newimpartial (대화) 19:54, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그럼에도 불구하고 당신은 지난 ANI에서 했던 것과 똑같은 터무니없는 비난을 하고, Girth Summit이 당신에게 ANI는 "불미스러운" 것이며, 다시는 하지 말라고 특별히 말한 것이다.내가 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 원한다고 비난하는 것은 비열하고 명예훼손적이다.위키피디아에서 페이지마다 따라다니면서 쉬지 않고 나를 괴롭히는 게 바로 이거야.나는 네가 어떻게 아무런 영향도 미치지 않고 계속 도망치는지 이해할 수 없다.릴리포25 (대화) 19:22, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 릴리포, 당신은 Fred Sargeant, Graham Linehan, 밴쿠버 강간 구제 여성 보호소 등 관련 단체 기사와 반트랜스 운동가들의 BLP를 화이트워싱하기 위해 POV 편집 작업을 반복해 왔다.이런 맥락에서, 나는 당신이 그러한 POV로 편집한 페이지들이 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력에 기여하는 믿을 만한 출처에서 고발되었기 때문에 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 묵인하는지를 묻는 것이 타당하다고 생각한다.만약 당신이 그것을 용납하지 않는다고 말한다면, 나는 그것을 받아들일 것이고, 그 특정한 문제는 중단될 것이다.Newimpartial (대화) 19:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴림파티얼, 그 사르겐트 페이지를 편집하지 않고 얼마나 오랫동안 따라다녔는지 궁금하군.당신은 라인한 RFC에 대한 우리의 의견 불일치 직후에 그곳에 나타났고, 내가 당신과 위키디엠에 의해 태그테이트를 받는 것을 더 이상 받아들일 수 없어서 포기하고 떠났을 때.그리고 당신은 내가 편집하고 있는 라인한 기사에 나타났고, 밴쿠버 강간 위기 센터에 대한 다른 기사에 대해 우리가 동의하지 않은 직후에 당신은 한번도 편집한 적이 없었다.매번 내가 다른 페이지에서 당신과 의견이 다른 후 내가 편집하는 모든 페이지에 관심을 갖게 된 것은 단지 우연의 일치라고 당신은 주장한다.— Lilipo25가 추가한 사전 서명되지 않은 설명(대화 • 기여)
- 나는 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장하거나 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장하는 사람을 '백지화'하기 위해 위키피디아 기사를 편집한 적이 없으며, 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력이 촉진되는 동안 어느 누구도 "빈둥빈둥 대기"해야 한다고 주장한 적도 없다.그 중 어느 것도 사실이 아니다.뉴림파티알은 그들이 내가 나치가 내 가족을 죽이게 내버려둔 사람들과 같음을 암시하는 논평을 냈고, 그들이 단지 괴롭힘을 계속하기 위해 편집해 본 적이 없는 위키피디아 기사에 이르기까지 나를 따라다녔다는 사실에서 벗어나기 위해 역겨운 주장을 하고 있다.나는 그들이 몇달에 몇달이고 아무런 결과도 없이 이 일을 계속 회피한다는 것을 믿을 수 없다.릴리포25 (대화) 20:41, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
여기뿐만 아니라.당신은 또한 역사적으로 트랜스 여성에 대한 폭력을 배제하고 장려하기 위해 사용되어 온 중립적이지 않은 POV 용어 "여성 태생" (Newimpartial (대화) 23:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)의 삽입을 주장해왔다.반면에, 나는 당신이 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장했거나 심지어 당신이 "나치가 당신의 가족을 죽이게 내버려둔 사람들과 같다"고 말한 적이 없다. 이것은 터무니없는 말이다.그러나 나는 너를 초대한 적이 있다. 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 비난하거나, 적어도 네가 그러한 폭력을 용납하지 않는다고 진술하도록. 그러나 너는 그 문제를 명확히 하지 않았다. (예를 들어 내가 TERF에 대한 반유대적 폭력과 폭력을 비난함으로써)Newimpartial (대화) 22:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 문자 그대로 두 명의 관리자들, Girth Summit과 El_C로부터 내가 "트랜스 피플에 대한 폭력을 중단하라"고 요구하는 것을 그만두라는 말을 들었다. 왜냐하면 나는 결코 내가 그것을 지지할 것을 제안하지 않았기 때문이다. 그리고 물론 당신은 가서 다시 그것을 한다.믿을 수 없다.평소처럼 왕따를 멈추지 않을 거야
- 당신이 위에서 말한 것처럼, 그 어느 곳에서도 나에게 "전송자에 대한 폭력 조장이나 그들의 동맹국들이 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장하는 것을 포함하여, 반트랜스 어젠다를 가진 개인과 조직에 대한 기사들을 흐리멍덩하게 보여주는 것은 없다."어디에도 없다.그러한 사람들과 조직을 묘사하기 위해 "반트랜스젠더"를 사용하는 것은 많은 편집자들에 의해 큰 논쟁에 휘말렸고, 그 결과 지난 몇 주 동안 아무런 합의 없이 끝난 라인한 토크 페이지에 RFC가 등장했다.그러나 그들 중 어느 누구도 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 주장하지 않았고 그 주장은 단순히 거짓이다.
- 나는 셰익스피어의 맥베스 밖에서는 우스꽝스럽게 들릴 뿐인 '여성 태생'이라는 용어를 어떤 기사에서나 사용할 것을 주장하거나 제안해 본 적이 없다.밴쿠버 강간 위기 센터 기사에서 인용된 소식통은 "여성 태생"을 언급했고 그래서 나는 그들의 용어를 사용해야 한다고 주장했다.나는 또한 너와 다른 편집자에게 나에 대해 아무것도 모르거나 내가 어떻게 식별했는지를 모르니 ME 'cis'라고 부르지 말아달라고 거듭 부탁했다.나의 요청은 거절당했다.
- 그리고 마지막으로, 나치가 유대인을 죽일 때 내가 옆에 있던 사람들처럼 되는 것에 대해 당신이 한 제안은 이전 ANI에 있다.그것을 위해 어떻게 해야 할지 모르지만, 그것은 ANI Archive 1036의 바닥 근처에 있고 나는 이미 이 실에 당신의 정확한 말을 인용했다.릴리포25 (대화) 22:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 릴리포, 내가 실제로 말한
릴리포25, 나는 역사적으로 그들이 불신임하는 집단으로부터 오는 폭력
에 대해"전혀" 말하지 않았던
사람들이생각난다.
나를위해
내주장을 하는구나."
라고말하는
것은 합리적으로 나치가당신의 가족을 죽이게 내버려두었던 사람들처럼 [당신들]이라는 것
을 암시하는 것으로 해석할 수 없다.내 진술이 의도한 대로 읽어야 하는 추상화 수준에서 다른 사람에 대한 동정심을 가지고 활동할 수 없는 사람은, 내 견해로는 위키백과의 민감한 주제를 편집해서는 안 된다. - 그리고
당신
은 또 다시 내가당신과 다른 편집자에게 나에 대해 아무것도 모르거나 내가 어떻게
식별했는지에대해
나를'cis'
라고 부르지말라고 반복적으로 요구
했다고 말할 때 대머리적으로 잘못 말했다.
나의 요청은 거절당했다.
나는 한번도, 그 전체 토론에서 너를 "cis"라고 부른 적이 없는데, 나는 네가 왜 이 명백한 허위 고발을 반복하는지 상상할 수 없다. - 나의 실수에 대해 미안하게 생각하고, 위의 「여성 태생」을 「여성 태생」으로 정정해 놓았지만, 이것은 여전히 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 조장하는 데 사용되는 비중립적인 용어로서, 당신이 그것을 가져가고 있던 출처는, 그 자체의 편집 음성으로가 아니라, 기사의 주제가 사용하는 용어의 일부로서 사용하고 있었는데, 당신은 다시 경고를 받았다.지나치게 의존하지 않고
- 트위터 대변인에 따르면 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력에 관한 한, 두 명의 BLP 피험자 중 첫 번째 피험자는 "혐오 행위와 플랫폼 조작에 대한 우리의 규칙을 반복적으로 위반한 후 영구적으로 정지되었다"고 한다.두 번째 주제는 경찰이 흑인 트랜스 남자를 쏜 것에 대해 공개적으로 찬사를 보냈다.이 활동가들 중 어느 누구도 트랜스 사람들에 대한 폭력을 묵인하거나 조장하지 않았다는 당신의 주장은, 허황되고, 증명되지 않았으며, 이용 가능한 출처와 모순된다.Newimpartial (대화) 23:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 너희 둘 다 선반에서 내려놔야 할 것 같아.그러나 그러한 감정을 릴리포25에 귀속시킴으로써 전이에 대한 폭력에 대한 이러한 함의는 다소 뉴림파티알에 있다.나는 행동 없이 이 보고서를 마무리하는 것에 기대기 시작했지만, 약간의 경고가 첨부되었다.이것은 지금 생산적인 담론이 아니다.El_C 23:29, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 릴리포, 내가 실제로 말한
- 여기서 장난해?첫째로, 라인한은 "남자는 여자가 될 수 없다"는 이유로 트위터로부터 정직 처분을 받았는데, 이것은 "전환자들에 대한 폭력을 조장하는" 것이 아니다.트윗의 결정이 틀렸다고 말한 소식통들을 인용할 수 있는데, 원한다면 <스펙터>에 나오는 트랜스 여성 데비 헤이튼 박사의 <오피에드>도 포함해서 말이다.ANI 페이지에 Sargeant에 대한 그런 비방글을 올려서 토니 맥데이드 사건을 시도해보게 할거야?좋아. 이건 더 이상 주의를 산만하게 하려는 말도 안 되는 시도야. 하지만 넌 사실을 제시할 수밖에 없어.
- 맥데드는 1시간 분량의 동영상을 촬영해 자신의 페이스북에 올린 지 몇 분 만에 흑인 청년 말리크 잭슨을 흉기로 찔러 살해했다. 이 동영상에서 말리크 잭슨은 살해 의사를 밝힌 뒤 경찰관들에게 총을 겨누며 자살했다. 왜냐하면 그의 말에서 "내가 총격전을 통해 자살하기 전에 미리 알아둬.앞으로 일어날 일을 그렇게 될 거야왜냐하면 나는 그것을 꺼낼 것이고, 요즘 이 경찰관들은 그들이 총을 쏘는 것을 보고 있기 때문이다.난 감옥으로 돌아가지 않을 거야내가 너희들의 삶을 끝내고 나면 나와 법률은 교착상태에 빠질 거야나는 다시 연방 교도소로 돌아가지 않을 것이기 때문에 나는 살인을 저지를 것이다.사르겐트는 피해자 말릭 잭슨의 가족과 함께 일해왔으며 잭슨의 살인자에 대해 아무런 동정심도 없었다고 진술했다.핑크 뉴스는 스톤월 폭동에 대한 잘못된 보도를 한 사르겐트에게 화가 난 뒤 경찰에 의한 흑인 트랜스 남자의 살인을 자축하고 있다고 주장하며 그를 비난했다.그들은 맥데이드가 막 말리크 잭슨을 살해한 것이나, 그가 막 경찰에 의해 자살하려고 한다는 내용의 동영상을 올렸다는 사실은 전혀 언급하지 않았다.
이 일에 대해 행정관이 다시 아무 조치도 취하지 않을 것인가?아무도 없어?뉴림파티얼은 내가 암시하지도 제안하지도 않은 것들에 대해 이런 역겨운 비난으로 나를 계속 조롱하고 괴롭힐 수 있어. 그리고 심지어 행정관이 그들에게 멈추라고 한 후에도 계속해서 그렇게 할 수 있어. 그리고 그것에 대한 어떠한 결과도 없고 계속 악화되고 있어.그들이 가장 많이 받는 것은 그들이 괴롭힘을 계속하기 위해 어깨를 움츠리고 무시하는 것이 잘못된 것에 대한 가벼운 비난이다.그들은 이 괴롭힘을 계속하기 위해 위키피디아에 관한 기사부터 기사까지 나를 따라다닌다.이게 어떻게 괜찮지?릴리포25 (대화) 20:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 괴롭힘이 아니었어, 릴리포.그것은 당신이 대답하지 않기로 선택한 꽤 간단한 질문이었다.Newimpartial (대화) 20:12, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 행정관이 이 상호작용이 어디서 시작되었는지 궁금하지 않다면, 나는 여기에 기록된 토론을 가리킬 것이다.나는 그 토론에서 무한히 인내심이 강하거나 완벽하게 예의 바른 척 하지 않겠지만, 릴리포가 그 토크 페이지에 내게 가한 일련의 인신공격과 근거 없는 비난은 내가 위키피디아에서 접했던 그 어떤 것보다도 더 많고, 나는 여기서 꽤 오랫동안 "문화전쟁" 주제를 편집해 오고 있다.Newimpartial (대화) 20:16, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴임파트먼트, 나는 Girth Summit에 동의해야 한다.너는 도발의 영역을 회피하고 있다.El_C 20:35, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 내가 그 토크 페이지 토론에 대한 링크를 게시하는 것에 대해 "도발적인" 것이 있는가?무슨 반응인지 모르겠네, 여기.Newimpartial (대화) 20:39, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 다른 기고자들의 진술에 대한 공개를 원하는 것에 대해 일반적인 주장을 하고 있다.그것은 약간은 이해될 수 있다.El_C 20:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 좋아.그러나 릴리포는 "비례"에 관한 한, COI에 대해 상호담당자들에게 질문하는 것이 "논리적"인 한 괜찮다고 생각한다.동의합니까?Newimpartial (대화) 20:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 먼저 El_C, 기사에 COI가 있는지 내가 위키디엠에게 물어본 것은 (뉴림파티알이 나에 대해 이와 같은 괴롭힘 전술에 종사하고, 나에 대한 어떠한 제재도 정당화되지 않았다고 결정된) LAST ANI 위키디템의 주제라고 지적할 수 있다.그래서 뉴임파티알은 지금 다른 결정을 기대하며 새로운 행정관에게 그 결정을 쇼핑하고 있다.둘째로, 나는 위키피디아 정책에서 다른 편집자에게 COI가 있는지 물어보는 것은 허용된다고 생각한다.셋째, 뉴임파티리얼 그들 자신이 오늘 프레드 사르간트 기사에서 COI가 있는지 물어봤고, 기꺼이 대답해 주었다.릴리포25 (대화) 21:15, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이해충돌 여부를 사용자에게 공개하도록 요구하는 것(각 사용자 대화 페이지에서 uw-coi를 추천한다)은 의심스러울 때 하는 완전히 합법적인 질의다.El_C 21:26, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 먼저 El_C, 기사에 COI가 있는지 내가 위키디엠에게 물어본 것은 (뉴림파티알이 나에 대해 이와 같은 괴롭힘 전술에 종사하고, 나에 대한 어떠한 제재도 정당화되지 않았다고 결정된) LAST ANI 위키디템의 주제라고 지적할 수 있다.그래서 뉴임파티알은 지금 다른 결정을 기대하며 새로운 행정관에게 그 결정을 쇼핑하고 있다.둘째로, 나는 위키피디아 정책에서 다른 편집자에게 COI가 있는지 물어보는 것은 허용된다고 생각한다.셋째, 뉴임파티리얼 그들 자신이 오늘 프레드 사르간트 기사에서 COI가 있는지 물어봤고, 기꺼이 대답해 주었다.릴리포25 (대화) 21:15, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 좋아.그러나 릴리포는 "비례"에 관한 한, COI에 대해 상호담당자들에게 질문하는 것이 "논리적"인 한 괜찮다고 생각한다.동의합니까?Newimpartial (대화) 20:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 다른 기고자들의 진술에 대한 공개를 원하는 것에 대해 일반적인 주장을 하고 있다.그것은 약간은 이해될 수 있다.El_C 20:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 내가 그 토크 페이지 토론에 대한 링크를 게시하는 것에 대해 "도발적인" 것이 있는가?무슨 반응인지 모르겠네, 여기.Newimpartial (대화) 20:39, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 뉴임파트먼트, 나는 Girth Summit에 동의해야 한다.너는 도발의 영역을 회피하고 있다.El_C 20:35, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
편집자가 대화 페이지에서 내 편집을 삭제함
| 나는 WP를 위해 외설했다.DE. 물론 설득력 있는 막힘 없는 호소가 고려될 수도 있다.El_C 13:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
쿠르디야테352에게 투즈 호르마토에 대한 인구조사 정보를 삭제한 이유를 설명해 달라고 요청했는데, 그 정보는 찾을 수 없다는 설명이었다.그것은 노골적인 거짓말이고 그들은 또한 책의 내용을 잘못 표기해서 읽지 않았다는 것을 분명히 한다.게다가, 내가 그 토크 페이지에 대한 설명을 요구했을 때, 편집자는 나의 편집을 삭제했다.[53] --Semsûrî (대화) 20:37, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 이것에는 분명히 장점이 있다.이 출처에는 '1919191925년 이라크 북동부의 정치, 여행, 연구'라는 부제가 붙어 있지만, 그럼에도 불구하고 쿠르디야테352가 계속 삭제하는 1947년 인구조사를 여러 차례 언급하고 있다.나는 또한 쿠르디야테 352가 셈스르트의 외부 공격과 연관되어 있고 바로 그 직후 그들의 토크 페이지에 쿠르드 차 위키 러브 메시지를 남겼다는 것을 알아챘다. 이 메시지는 매우 수동적인 공격이라고 이해된다.우드로어 (토크) 21:13, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 쿠르디야테352가 오프사이트 트위터 인신공격과 연계한 것은 불온한 관행이다.That MontrealIP (대화) 21:54, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 네가 말했듯이 1947년 인구조사는 책에 언급되어 있다.쿠르디야테352는 1947년[54년]에 실시된 인구조사가 없다고 처음 주장하였고, 이를 잘못 입증한 후 이 책에 인구조사가 언급되지 않았다고 주장했다.솔직히 자신의 POV와 Tuz Khurmatu에 대한 정보 제거를 위해 노골적으로 거짓말을 하는 사람과 논쟁할 시간이 없다. --Semsûrî (대화) 09:29, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 메인 페이지와 토크 페이지[55][56] 양쪽에서 혼란이 계속되고 있다.또한, 그들은 또한 고려해야 할 3RR 규정을 위반한 것으로 보인다. --Semsûrî (대화) 13:30, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
편집자는 민족적 선전으로 페이지를 파괴한다.
셈스르트는 아시리아 역사에 관한 페이지를 파손해 수천 개의 글자와 역사의 페이지를 삭제해 쿠르드족의 선전물로 대체해 왔다.나는 멈춰달라고 요청했고 편집 내용을 되돌리려고 했지만 그들은 듣지 않는다.아메도 셈수리는 이라크 내 아시리아 주요 지역과 투르크멘 주요 지역을 쿠르드족(그들은 그렇지 않다)으로 주장하기 위해 가짜 통계와 선전을 덧붙인다.--쿠르디야테352 (대화) 22:45, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- Semsûrî의 기여를 대충 훑어본다고 해서 그것들 중 어떤 것도 보여주지 않는다.당신은 어떤 잘못이든 DIF를 제공해야 한다. 그렇지 않으면 이것은 근거 없는 인신공격이다.우드로어 (토크) 12:09, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
중단 없는 편집을 위해 무기한 차단됨.El_C 13:37, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자:Dyll222
| 차단됨 | |
| Dyll222는 El C(비관리자 폐쇄) ~ Amkgp by 04:26, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)[에 의해 36시간 동안 차단되었다. | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
Heathers Brands와 같은 기사에 대한 편집에 대한 관리자 지원 요청.해당 편집자는 WP에 기울어진 요약본과 같은 편집요약을 통해 논평을 추가하는 대신, 비협조적인 정보를 끈질기게 추가하며 토크 페이지 토론에 참여하지 않고 있다.PA.
추가 사항과 관련된 편집 내용은 다음과 같다. (1 2 3 4)
나는 WP에 따른 가이드라인을 따르려고 노력했다.DDE를 통해 가능한 한 이 문제를 해결할 수 있도록 관리자 지원을 해주십시오.로잘리나2427 23:37, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
차단됨 – 36시간 동안 차단됨.El_C 23:41, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
바하티
바하티는 2006년 3월 등록해 집필 당시 226건의 편집을 누적했다.그의 이력은 논쟁으로 얼룩진 비활동의 하나이다.나는 그를 Stefan Molyneux에서 만났다. 그곳에서 그는 Molyneux가 백인 우월주의자라고 진술하는데 있어서 출처를 따르지 않는 것에 대해 다양한 창의적인 주장을 채택하고 있다.아흐메드 모하메드 시계 사건(편집 토크 히스토리가 삭제 링크 감시 로그 뷰를 삭제하는 것을 보호함)과 관련된 그의 이전 활동 시기로 돌아가면서, 나는 [58]과 [59]와 같은 편집본을 발견했다. 이 편집물은 리차드 도킨스의 이슬람 혐오 발언을 촉진시키지만 그 논평에 대한 비판은 제외할 것을 요구한다.
한편, 과거의 역사는 그가 곧 다시 동면에 들어갈 것이라는 것을 보여준다.다른 한편으로, 그것은 또한 그가 아마도 다른 인종적으로 고발된 기사로 다시 돌아올 것임을 암시한다.
가능한 편집 제한 수준으로 상승하는가?가이(도움말!) 09:34, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
나는 막 WP에 대한 경고를 올리려던 참이었다.Stefan Molyneux에서 Stephan Molyneux에서 같은 주장을 반복해서 반복해서 반복해서 스틱을 떨어뜨리지 않기 위해 편집한다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 10:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이봐, 난 네가 DS를 이용해서 인종과 민족이라는 주제 영역으로부터 주제를 금지시키는 것을 지지해.El_C 10:42, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
그들이 이 문제들을 다루기 전까지는 아마 무기한으로 차단될까?우리가 어떤 제한을 가하든, 그것들은 나중에 다른 곳에서 같은 문제로 새롭게 나타날 수 있다.그럼 처음부터 다시 시작해야겠군--Deepfriedokra (대화) 11:49, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이의가 없는 한 나는 기꺼이 밀고 나갈 것이다.El_C 12:15, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
리차드 도킨스가 이슬람 혐오 발언을 했다는 의혹은 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/richard-dawkins-accuses-ahmed-mohamed-of-committing-fraud_n_55fed260e4b08820d918fe9b?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592&guccounter=1(당시 기사에 사용된 출처)이다.그들은 어떤 식으로든 이슬람교를 언급하거나 언급하지 않는다.IIRC는 WP 기사에 포함된 그의 논평에 대해 비판은 없었지만, 대체로 그에 대한 비판은 없었다.나는 어느 쪽도 그 기사에 포함시키는 것이 적절하지 않다고 주장한다.나는 Stefan Molyneux 기사를 편집한 적도, 편집하려는 의도도 없다.해당 기사의 토크페이지에서 장기간에 걸친 논의는, 내가 추측하건대, 제기되는 이슈들을 둘러싼 중요한 속성, 사실, 정책 해석에 대한 명백한 의견 불일치의 산물이며, 이는 그 수정의 맥락을 제공하기 위해 계속적으로 수정과 일부 반복을 부추기고 있다.내 동면을 언급하는 게 맞는데, 그 때문에 나는 이 과정에 익숙하지 않다.만약 내가 비난으로부터 자신을 방어해야 한다면 나는 그 비난이 무엇인지 확신할 수 없다는 것을 인정해야 한다.만약 동면 그 자체라면, 인종적으로 고발된 기사들에 대한 나의 관심이나 아메드 모하메드 시계 사건과 스테판 몰리뉴스의 대화 페이지에 대한 나의 주장은 사실 내가 잘못한 것에 대한 세부사항이 없는, 뉘우침이 없는, 내가 문제인 것이다.바하티 (대화) 12:21, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- Bahati, "Richard Dawkins is not a Islamophobe" 카드는 성공하지 못한 채 이전에 연주된 적이 있다.가이(도움말!) 12:44, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이봐, 난 그 카드 안 할거야.나는 "Guy가 Dawkins의 특정 논평이 이슬람 혐오적이라고 잘못 주장하고 있다"라는 카드를 연주하고 있다.그 이유는 잘 모르겠지만.WP 기사에 이슬람 혐오 발언을 포함시키는 것은 정책에 반하는 것인가?편집: 명확하게 하기 위해, 나는 삭제된 이후 문제의 코멘트를 기사에 포함시키지 않았다. 나는 여전히 그것이 정책에 반하는 것인지, 또한 그들의 포함에 대한 논쟁도 마찬가지인지 알고 싶다.바하티 (대화) 12시 59분, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- Stefan Molyneux에 대한 의견 일치가 있다. 하나는 많은 VS이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 13:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 꽤 일찍 여러 번 인정했다고 생각한다.하지만, 사람들은 여전히 이야기를 하고 있고 적절한 곳에 나도 있다.그것이 명백한 위법행위라면 내가 할 수 있는 모든 것은 사과하고 내가 무엇을 잘못했는지 설명하는 관련 정책 기사를 지적해 달라는 것이다.바하티 (대화) 13:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 왜 아직도 의견이 일치하지 않는다고 생각하는데 논쟁하는 겁니까?JZG가 마지막 말을 할 시간이야슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 13:30, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 꽤 일찍 여러 번 인정했다고 생각한다.하지만, 사람들은 여전히 이야기를 하고 있고 적절한 곳에 나도 있다.그것이 명백한 위법행위라면 내가 할 수 있는 모든 것은 사과하고 내가 무엇을 잘못했는지 설명하는 관련 정책 기사를 지적해 달라는 것이다.바하티 (대화) 13:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
젬그윌슨
사용자:Jmgwilson은 흑인 마블 코믹스의 캐릭터인 Brother Voodoo를 "슈퍼히어로"가 아닌 "캐릭터"라고 부르는 것이 인종차별의 증거라고 확신하고 있다.IP는 요약 편집을 통해 우선 중립적인 용어[60]를 선호하는 합의가 있음을 그에게 알린 다음, 나중에 ORTHUFF 논쟁에 대응하기 위해 "슈퍼히어로"[61]로 설명되지 않은 흰색 문자의 예를 제공했다.
IP가 코믹스 프로젝트에 알려줬어. 그게 내가 어떻게 참여하게 된거지.나는 WP에 의해 IP가 정확하다는 것을 확인했다.주인공. Jmmgwilson은 그 토론을 알고 있으며, 그는 "슈퍼히어로"를 사용하지 않는 것은 인종차별이라고 재차 강조했다.나는 그가 여기와 여기의 OTRSTUFF라고 지적한 페이지를 정정했다.나는 Jmgwilson에게 이러한 변경사항을 알려주고 똑같이 해달라고 초대했다.
이에 대해 Jmgwilson은 WP를 계속 위반할 계획임을 분명히 했다.다른 사람이 다른 모든 기사에서 "슈퍼히어로"를 삭제하기 전까지의 GEON.나는 그것을 하지 말라고 충고했지만 무시당했다.
입력하는 동안 사용자:이즈노는 뒤돌아 Jmgwilson에게 편집 전쟁 경고를 주었다.여기서 어떤 수준의 제한이 가장 좋을지 모르겠지만, 나는 그가 왜 그의 행동이 파괴적인지를 깨닫는 동안 그 혼란을 막기 위한 행정 조치를 취했으면 한다.아르젠토 서퍼 (대화) 12:36, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- MOS:FILM은 만화책 기사가 어떻게 쓰여지는지를 의무화하지 않는다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 12:53, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그러나 컨센서스는 그러하며, 코믹 프로젝트는 오랫동안 코믹스 MOS에 그것을 추가하지 않고 그 허황된 문제에 의존해 왔다. 아카이브에서 몇몇 링크를 찾으려고 노력했지만, "캐릭터", "중립" 그리고 "슈퍼히어로"는 그다지 효과적인 검색어가 아니다.아르젠토 서퍼 (대화) 13:14, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 내용상의 논쟁처럼 보인다.
그것이 부두형제로부터 삭제된 유일한 이유는 인종주의 중재자들
이 편집 요약에는 분명 훌륭하지 않지만, 분쟁과 편집-전쟁의 그 측면은 WP에게 너무 간략하게 보인다.ANI. 나머지 부분에 대해서는 WP가 다음과 같은 사실조차 제쳐두고 있다.주인공은 모스에 있다:필름을 위한 스타일 매뉴얼은 정책 문서가 아니라 가이드라인이다.당신은 아마도 오랜 MOS 지침을 무시한 채 그것이 파괴적이거나 WP를 제기할 정도로 ANI에 누군가를 데려올 수 있을 것이다.역량 문제, 그러나 나는 당신이 단지 하나의 가이드라인의 비교적 불명확한 부분을 거스른다고 해서 그렇게 할 수 있다고 생각하지 않는다; 사실, 많은 MOS들은 더 불명확하거나 구체적인 가이드라인이 엄격하게 지켜지기 보다는 조언자로 취급된다.WP에 언급된 바와 같이:집행, 집행은 일반적으로 공동체 규범과 토론에 우선 의존한다; 행정 개입은사용자가 정책에 반대(또는
정책과 상충되는 방식
의가이드라인
에 반대)하는
것이분명한 경우
에 대한 것이다. (내 것을 강조함)즉, MOS 위반으로 누군가를 ANI에 데려오려면 그들의 행동이 정책을 위반하거나 가이드라인이 어떤 정책(즉, 그 가이드라인이)을 이행하는 역할을 할 정도로 터무니없다는 것을 보여줘야 한다.WP:RS는 기술적으로 가이드라인이지만 WP:V를 구현하는 역할을 하기 때문에 대부분의 위반도 정책 위반이다; 나는 어떻게 "사람들을 슈퍼히어로라고 부르지 말라"가 그것과 같은 힘이나 중요성을 가지고 있는지 잘 모르기 때문에, 그것에 대한 논쟁은 여전히 콘텐츠 논쟁일 뿐이다.) --조 (대화) 16:52, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 내용상의 논쟁처럼 보인다.
- 그러나 컨센서스는 그러하며, 코믹 프로젝트는 오랫동안 코믹스 MOS에 그것을 추가하지 않고 그 허황된 문제에 의존해 왔다. 아카이브에서 몇몇 링크를 찾으려고 노력했지만, "캐릭터", "중립" 그리고 "슈퍼히어로"는 그다지 효과적인 검색어가 아니다.아르젠토 서퍼 (대화) 13:14, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 ANI 요청이 지금 시기상조라고 생각한다.그가 먼저 편집 전쟁을 중단하는지 보자. --Izno (대화) 13:03, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
103.60.175.41로 예상되는 블록 회피
가능한 블록 회피: 103.60.175.41 (대화 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵연료 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)은 문서 및 템플릿의 표에 색상을 변경하고 편집 요약을 남기지 않고 수백 개의 편집(반자동화)을 해왔다.이는 2년 동안 차단된 103.60.175.78(토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)과 동일한 것으로 보이는 편집을 했다.어제 블록 회피의 또 다른 시도인 103.60.175.51 (토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 사용자 • 블록 로그)은 차단되었다.피케라이 (대화) 21:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- #probable block from 103.60.175.51 by 103.60.175.51에서 논의
#probable block from 103.60.175.51의 토론을 참조하십시오.피케라이 (대화) 21:10, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Malcolmxl5:고마워!에드존스턴과 나는 위키피디아에서 이런 이야기를 꺼냈다.열린 프록시/요청/아카이브/37#103.60.175.51에 대한 위키프로젝트.Mdaniels5757은 다음과 같은 이유로 이 요청을 거절했다: "범위는 정상적인 ISP에 속하는 것 같다. 그래서 나는 colo/webhost 또는 유사하다고 차단하지 않을 것이다.담보가 없다면 /24를 차단할 것을 권하고 싶지만, 어느 정도 담보가 있을 것 같다(특수: 참조).기부금/103.60.175.51/24) 그러므로 왁아몰을 하는 것이 아마도 가장 좋은 선택일 것이다."피케라이 (대화) 22:43, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Peaceray:아니, 거기 내 업데이트에 의하면(내가 너에게 ping을 한 것 같다) "그래, 담보에도 불구하고 (5월부터 편집된 내용 참조) /24 한 블록이 (대리 블록이 아닌) 보증될 수도 있어." --Mdaniels5757 (대화) 22:50, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Malcolmxl5:고마워!에드존스턴과 나는 위키피디아에서 이런 이야기를 꺼냈다.열린 프록시/요청/아카이브/37#103.60.175.51에 대한 위키프로젝트.Mdaniels5757은 다음과 같은 이유로 이 요청을 거절했다: "범위는 정상적인 ISP에 속하는 것 같다. 그래서 나는 colo/webhost 또는 유사하다고 차단하지 않을 것이다.담보가 없다면 /24를 차단할 것을 권하고 싶지만, 어느 정도 담보가 있을 것 같다(특수: 참조).기부금/103.60.175.51/24) 그러므로 왁아몰을 하는 것이 아마도 가장 좋은 선택일 것이다."피케라이 (대화) 22:43, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Mdaniels5757:해명해줘서 고마워.내가 오해한 것 같아.나는 이 편집자가 같은 범위의 다른 IP에 다시 접속한다면, 우리는 진행해야 한다고 생각한다.피케라이 (대화) 23:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
이슬람의 후궁/이슬람의 노예
| 이슬람의 후궁들 El C(비관리인 폐쇄) ~ Amkgp 💬 04:16, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[]에 의해 1주일 동안 완전히 보호된다 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 그 주제에 대해 아무것도 모르고 관심도 없다.그 수정 역사는 케임브리지베이까지 되돌아가는 (전쟁을 편집하는) 헛된 쇼였다.Weather WP:MOVP가 페이지를 넘겼어관심 있는 행정가와 편집자들이 페이지를 보고 분쟁을 해결할 수 있는지 알아봤으면 좋겠다. -ThesusHell (대화) 19:39, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
무신경한 관리자의 눈을 부탁한다.
사용자 대화 시:Pasword wiki에는 NitinMlk가 2020년 6월 28일 19:23에 배치한 재량권 제재 경보 통지가 있다.그 날짜와 시간 이후로 내 인식은 파스워드 위키가 그 통지의 왜곡 가능성을 편집했다는 것이다.나는 내 인식이 옳은지 결정하기 위해 기고 이력과 개별적인 편집에 대해 심사숙고하는 관리자의 시선에 감사할 것이다.
나는 두 편집자에게 그들의 토크 페이지인 Fiddle Faddle 09:12, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[]을 통해 이 토론을 통지하려고 한다
- @Timtrent:디프 부탁해.워드서치에 비해 너무 늙고, 너무 피곤하고, 난독증이 심하다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 09:16, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 딥프리도크라, 디프트를 많이 공급할 수 있을 것 같아.그러나 그들의 기여 기록을 살펴보는 것은 정말로 가장 간단한 일이고, 그들이 매우 논쟁적인 BLP 영역에서 편집하고 있고, 카스트 (진실로 논쟁적인 문제)를 살아있는 사람들의 이름에 효과적으로 첨가하고 있다는 것을 주목하는 것이다.그냥 이걸 볼까?FiddleFaddle 09:20, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 많은 차이점을 필요로 하지 말고, 가장 터무니없는 차이점이나 다른 주목할 만한 차이점들 중 몇 가지에 불과하다.El_C 09:23, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- El C, * FiddleFaddle 09:28, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 많은 차이점을 필요로 하지 말고, 가장 터무니없는 차이점이나 다른 주목할 만한 차이점들 중 몇 가지에 불과하다.El_C 09:23, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 딥프리도크라, 디프트를 많이 공급할 수 있을 것 같아.그러나 그들의 기여 기록을 살펴보는 것은 정말로 가장 간단한 일이고, 그들이 매우 논쟁적인 BLP 영역에서 편집하고 있고, 카스트 (진실로 논쟁적인 문제)를 살아있는 사람들의 이름에 효과적으로 첨가하고 있다는 것을 주목하는 것이다.그냥 이걸 볼까?FiddleFaddle 09:20, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- Timtrent, yeah, 관련 차이점을 이 보고서에 직접 인용하십시오.El_C 09:18, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
또한 DS 조건이 충족되지 않는 방법에 대한 씁쓸한 설명도 있다.아니면 그들이 어떻게 화를 내고 있는지?가. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 09:29, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
또한, 여기에 제출하기 전에 어떻게 교란적으로 또는 교란적으로 편집하고 있는지 사용자를 교육하는 것이 가장 좋다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 09:32, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 딥프리도크라, 사과한다.나는 몇 년 동안 오랫동안 위키백과 활동을 해 왔다.나는 Fiddle Faddle 09:38, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[을 어느 때보다 많이 잊고 있었다.
- 갔다 왔다.해냈다.돌아온 것을 환영한다. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 09:40, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- Looks는 더 많은 비지원적인 편집을 좋아한다.DS 관련 자료를 통해 차단 가능'09:40, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)
- 그렇다, 만약 비협조적인 편집의 패턴이 있다면, 사용자는 그 이유로 제재를 받을 수 있다.El_C 09:43, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들이 6월 28일에 DS 경고를 받은 이후로 단지 여러 가지를 살펴봤을 뿐이지만, 소싱과 관련된 경고들을 포함하여 그 날짜 이전의 그들의 대화 페이지에 많은 템플리트 경고들이 있다는 것을 주목한다.
- 이것은 그곳에 있었던 것 보다 나쁘지 않다. (출처에서는 구자라티 용어와 목동이라고 언급하고 있으므로, 둘 다 언급되어야 한다 - 나는 "농부"를 사용하는 것이 언어 문제일 뿐이라고 가정할 것이다.)
- 이것은 좋은 출처와 거울을 가지고 있다 - 그들은 미러링을 모를 수도 있다.
- 이 카스트 리스트에는 소싱 문제가 많다.사용자 정보를 알고 있는지 여부:시투시/공통#카스텔리스트?
- 그들이 이 편집에 대한 정보를 어디서 얻었는지 모르겠다 - 내가 볼 수 있는 한 기사 본문에 언급되지 않고.옳을 수도 있고 그렇지 않을 수도 있다.
- 유사하게, 비록 역사적으로 식히즘이 훨씬 나중의 발전이기 때문에 힌두교인들이 힌두교인들이었을 가능성이 높지만, 이 편집에서 힌두교를 어디서 얻었는지 확실하지 않다. - 시투시 (토크) 09:55, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 사용자에게 확대된 경고를 했다: 추가적으로 비협조적인 편집은 제재에 의해 충족될 가능성이 있다.El_C 10:02, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들이 6월 28일에 DS 경고를 받은 이후로 단지 여러 가지를 살펴봤을 뿐이지만, 소싱과 관련된 경고들을 포함하여 그 날짜 이전의 그들의 대화 페이지에 많은 템플리트 경고들이 있다는 것을 주목한다.
고마워, 시투시.링크 줬어. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 10:04, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
IP는 내 토크 페이지에 원치 않는 메시지를 반복해서 남긴다.
| (비관리자 폐쇄) IP가 괴롭힘으로 차단됨.나노소증 (대화) 17:48, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 90.226.9.16에 우리가 하고 있는 토론이 빙빙 돌고 있는 것이 분명해진 후에 내 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남기는 것을 그만 두라고 요청했다.나는 먼저 6월 16일에 멈추라고 사용자에게 부탁했다.사용자가 17일에 메시지를 두 개 더 남겼어.다시 물었더니 20일 유저가 또 메시지를 남겼다.헬프 데스크의 조언에 따라 같은 날 사용자 토크 페이지를 삭제했지만 7월 1일 사용자가 또 다른 메시지를 남겼다.게다가 사용자가 젓가락을 파손하여 다른 사용자와 나를 구타하려는 것처럼 보인다.나는 내 토크 페이지가 반보호적이 되도록 요청했지만, 보아하니 그것은 내 경우에 허용되지 않는다.나는 단지 사용자로부터 더 이상 쓸모없는 통보를 받는 것을 멈추고 싶다.얼마나 힘들어야 돼??--Yel D'ohan (토크) 21:33, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그 IP 주소는 차단된 사용자 BjörnBergman의 것이었다.솔직히, 여전히 같은 사람이 그들의 차단을 피해 있을 가능성이 큰 것 같다.나는 이것을 6월에 만들어진 기무라 지로에몬 편집, 3월에 만들어진 국가별 최고령자 리스트 편집과 같은 장수의 기사에 계속 초점을 맞추고 있다.하지만 이 계정은 SPI에 비해 너무 오래된 것일 수도 있고, IP가 장수 기사에만 집중하는 것은 아니라는 점을 유념해야겠다.그럼에도 불구하고, 위에서 제기되었던 행동의 블록을 제안하고, 이것이 문제를 일으키기 위해 되돌아오는 차단된 사용자일 가능성을 고려하여 확장 블록으로 한다. --Yamla (대화) 21:41, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 장수와 관련된 진짜 문제가 생긴 지 얼마나 되었는지 깨닫는 것은 기쁜 일이다.예전엔 어땠는지 기억나?EENG 09:47, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
EENG—왜 여기와 여기의 Brooks 범죄 기록 섹션에 이미지를 추가/복원하십니까?왜 그러는 거야?버스정류장(토크) 11시 53분, 2020년 7월 2일(UTC)
103.60.175.51로 예상되는 블록 회피
| 차단되었지만 아래를 참조하십시오.(비관리자 폐쇄) --Mdaniels5757 (대화) 20:38, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
103.60.155.51(토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)은 문서 및 템플릿의 표에 색상을 변경하고 편집 요약을 남기지 않고 수백 개의 편집(수정-수정)을 해왔다.이는 최근 2년간 차단된 103.60.175.78(토크 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 블록 사용자 • 블록 로그)과 동일한 것으로 보이는 편집을 했다.나는 그 파괴적인 편집을 철회하는 과정에 있다.피케라이 (대화) 00:36, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
-
차단됨 – 2주.그들은 7월 2일에 약 400개의 편집을 했고, 그 전에 겨우 몇 개 편집했다.WP에서도 보고서를 만들겠다.이 IP가 개방형 프록시인지 확인하기 위한 OP.WHOIS는 이 IP가 방글라데시의 마제다 네트워크가 호스팅하는 /24 범위의 일부라고 말한다.mw:ORES는 이러한 IP 편집의 일부에도 플래그를 지정하고 있다.에드존스턴 (대화) 02:33, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
#probable block from 103.60.175.41에서 토론을 참조하십시오.피케라이 (대화) 21:11, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
스티브 다블리즈 스팸
| 블랙리스트에 추가됨 | |
| 특수 시:Diff/962664912/965888943. (비관리자 폐쇄) --Mdaniels5757 (대화) 01:28, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
지난 6월부터 다양한 이용자들이 호주의 유명 배우 스티브 다블리즈에 대한 스팸 기사를 만들거나 크게 기여했다.이러한 편집자는 다음과 같다.
- 도돌츠크 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- Amr gamal eldin(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그) (sockpuppet 또는 mitpuppet으로 의심됨)
- 아나스타샤DL (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- .알리 이브레이크 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
보시다시피 이들 편집자의 대부분은 이미 차단되었지만, 그렇다고 해서 더 이상 들어와 기사를 재창조하는 것을 막지 못하고 있다(스티브 다빌즈, 스티브 '스튜즈' 다블리즈, 스티브 다블리즈 스투즈 등 다른 이름으로).여기서 무슨 정교한 미트푸펫이 벌어지고 있는 것 같다.거의 모든 계정들이 기사를 만들기 위해 돈을 받고 있다고 공개하고 "이 사람은 충분히 유명하고 주목할 만하다." 또는 매우 유사한 것 ([62], [2], [63])과 함께 삭제에 이의를 제기하고 있다.나는 이 스팸 글의 작성을 저지하는 유일한 방법은 아직 차단되지 않은 모든 사용자를 차단하는 것이라고 생각한다.Dabliz에 대해 만들어진 모든 기사와 초안 타이틀을 SOLT로 작성한다.- ZLEA \C 23:43, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 페이지들을 소금에 절였다.El_C 23:47, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 내 생각에 블랙리스트라는 직책의 직책 - 우리는 그 성을 가진 사람들에 대한 다른 기사가 없고 그것은 매우 드문 것 같다.내가 처리할게.블랙 카이트 (토크) 00:57, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
다른 편집자를 표절하는 것은 잘못된 것인가?
| OP는 결과에 만족한다.Rgrds. --Bison X (대화) 22:27, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 편집자들이 다른 편집자들의 작품을 표절하도록 허용되어야 하는지 묻고 싶다.
예를 들어 최근에 사용자:에서 사용자 공간에 있는 경우:마부스카/노먼이 아일랜드의 노르만 침공 기사를 다시 쓰고 있다.나는 내 사용자 공간에서 다시 쓰고 있는 기사 토크 페이지에 공지했다.
오늘부로 나는 한 편집자 @Asarlai:가 내 사용자 공간에서 비트와 조각을 복사하고 편집 요약에 그것을 귀속시키지 않음으로써 자신의 작품이라고 주장하고 있다는 것을 깨달았다.
대표적인 예가 6월 30일에 편집한 [64]이다.그는 내 사용자 공간인 "교회의 역할" 하위 섹션 머리글을 추가할 뿐만 아니라, 심지어 6월 28일에 내가 내 사용자 공간에 쓴 해를 제외한 전체 텍스트 블록을 복사하기도 한다.그의 편집에 포함된 다른 추가 사항들 역시 클레어브룩스의 버나드, 말라키의 삶 등과 같은 내 작품에서 직접 가져온 것이다.
확실히 이것은 잘못된 행동이고 나쁜 믿음의 행동인가?마부스카 00:41, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이는 WP에 해당될 것으로 보인다.CWW:
위키피디아의 페이지 기록 기능에는 페이지의 모든 편집과 이러한 변경
을 한모든 사용자가 나열되지만, 텍스트
가 원래어디에서 왔는지
그자체로는 결정
할 수없다.
이 때문에 위키피디아 내의 다른 페이지에서 내용을 복사하는 것은 그것을 표시하기 위한 보충적 귀속성을 필요로 한다.
이러한 속성은 편집 요약에 있어야 한다.샤즈지드(talk) 01:04, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 마부스카, 2015년 기사 크기를 3배로 늘린 필자의 노트를 돌아보고 직접 리서치를 한 뒤 더 디테일을 추가했다.내가 추가한 대부분의 내용은 너의 초안에는 포함되어 있지 않아. 그리고 그 문장은 내가 새로 추가한 문장의 일부분일 뿐이야.그 문장은 당신과 유사하다. 왜냐하면 우리 둘 다 같은 출처, 아일랜드의 새로운 역사, 제2권, 56-57페이지에서 가져왔기 때문이다. 그리고 그것을 다시 쓸 수 있는 몇 가지밖에 없기 때문이다.나는 그 구절을 가장 잘 표현할 수 있는 방법이라고 느낀 것을 가지고 갔다.도움이 된다면, 내가 그 선을 제거해서 네가 직접 다시 추가할 수 있어?
제목이 '교회의 역할'인데, 그 행사들에서 교회가 어떤 역할을 하는지에 대해 내가 또 어떤 부분을 언급하겠는가?
- 마부스카, 2015년 기사 크기를 3배로 늘린 필자의 노트를 돌아보고 직접 리서치를 한 뒤 더 디테일을 추가했다.내가 추가한 대부분의 내용은 너의 초안에는 포함되어 있지 않아. 그리고 그 문장은 내가 새로 추가한 문장의 일부분일 뿐이야.그 문장은 당신과 유사하다. 왜냐하면 우리 둘 다 같은 출처, 아일랜드의 새로운 역사, 제2권, 56-57페이지에서 가져왔기 때문이다. 그리고 그것을 다시 쓸 수 있는 몇 가지밖에 없기 때문이다.나는 그 구절을 가장 잘 표현할 수 있는 방법이라고 느낀 것을 가지고 갔다.도움이 된다면, 내가 그 선을 제거해서 네가 직접 다시 추가할 수 있어?
- 기사화면에 실린 너의 말투는 처음부터 무례하고 공격적이었다.기사를 다운그레이드한 후, 당신은 그것을 "절대 엉망진창"으로 만든 것에 대해 "내 탓"이라고 말했고, "매우 편파적인 서사를 조장한다"고 비난했고, 내 언급이 증거 없이 쓰여진 것을 지지하지 않는다고 제안했다.나는 구체적인 예를 들었고, 우리가 함께 일하자고 제안했으며, 소스가 잘 되어 있는 어떤 추가도 환영했다.그 대신 당신은 유난히 방어적이 되어 "당신이 다른 이름으로 갔을 때 소싱에 대한 당신의 문제를 잊지 않았다"고 말했는데, 이것은 아마도 내가 새 편집자였을 때 어떤 사건을 불러일으킨 것으로 추정된다.이 행동은 확실히 야만적이어서 그만둘 필요가 있다.~아사라이 04:25, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 종교적인 역할은 한 가지 방법이다.교회의 영향력은 또 다른 것이다.글에 어떤 것이 실리기 전에 정밀 조사를 위해 올리려고 했던 다시 쓰기를 하면서 시간을 보내는 것이 모든 구체적인 이슈를 뒤지는 것보다 더 간단하다.내가 다시 쓰기를 샌드박스로 하는 이유는 기사 교란이 스타일과 포맷으로 끊임없이 변하는 것을 막기 위해서입니다.당신이 이제 가서 그 기사를 너무 많이 새로 수정해야 할 필요성을 느꼈다는 사실은 그것이 부족한 점이 있었음을 보여준다.
- 내가 좀 더 잘 할 수 있었을까?응. 내 초기 반응은 순간적인 자극이었고 나는 내 사용자 공간에서 다시 쓰기로 WP:Bold가 되기로 결심했어.기사의 상태를 내가 탓했는가?그래, 하지만 너만 그런 건 아니야. 하지만 난 네가 주공자라고 이름만 지었을 뿐이야.다른 편집자들은 그것에서 더 적은 역할을 한다.그러나 나는 그것과 나의 어조에 대해 사과한다.
- 당신이 어떤 단어를 몇 가지 방법으로 말하고 다른 편집자에게서 직접 복사하는 것과 상관없이, 당신은 물어볼 수 있다.마부스카 05:38, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 처리됐는지, 복사물 말고는 어떤 것도 언급할 수 없다.다른 편집자의 기여자가 "작다"든 상관없이, 만약 그들이 저작권의 적용을 받는다면, 당신은 여전히 그들의 면허 조건을 준수해야 한다. 또는 당신이 WP:복사권 침해에 책임이 있다.만약 그것이 계속된다면 너는 차단되어야 한다.편집자들은 그들의 저작권이 위키백과 외부에 컨텐츠를 게시하는 사람들보다 덜 존중될 것이라고 기대해서는 안 된다.따라서 복사한 것이 저작권의 대상이 되지 않는다고 확신할 수 있을 정도로 저작권법에 대한 전문가가 아니라면, WP의 조언을 따라야 한다.위키백과 내에서 복사하기.편집자가 편집 내용을 리메이크하게 할 필요는 없다.대신 다른 곳에서 콘텐츠를 복사할 때 해당 페이지에서 제안하는 것처럼 충분한 속성이 제공되도록 해야 한다.심지어 본문을 크게 확장하는 것은 저작권이 있는 콘텐츠에 대해 필요한 귀속성을 제공하지 못한 것에 대한 변명은 아니다.닐 아인(대화) 05:09, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- (EC) 좀 더 주의 깊게 읽으면 내가 오해했을지도 모른다.당신이 OP에서 소량의 내용만 복사했다고 말하는 것이 아니라, 그 내용 중 단지 소량의 부분만이 유사하며, 그것은 OP에서 복사했기 때문이 아니라, 같은 소스를 사용하고 심지어 WP를 피하려고 시도하기 때문이기도 하다:두 사람 모두 비슷한 표현을 생각해 낸 것 같다.만약 나의 새로운 해석이 맞다면, 나는 나의 초기 논평에 대해 사과한다.만약 당신이 다른 위키피디아 페이지의 어떤 내용도 복사하지 않았다면, 물론 그 위키피디아 페이지에 어떠한 귀속도 제공할 필요가 없다.하지만 나는 네가 초고를 베꼈다고 생각하지 않더라도 네가 초고를 읽는다면 강한 주의를 촉구할 것이다.글을 쓸 때 직접 읽고 있지 않더라도 읽는 외부 소스를 가까이서 패러프레이징할 위험이 있는 것처럼, 그렇지 않다고 생각하더라도 불가피하게 다른 페이지를 복사할 위험이 있다.복잡성을 감안할 때, 초안을 수정하기 전이나 도중에 읽었을 경우, 초안을 베꼈다고 생각되지 않더라도, 초안을 귀속시키는 것이 더 나을 수 있다.그렇게 하면 의도하지 않은 카피비오의 위험을 줄일 수 있을 것이다.물론 당신이 그것을 읽은 적이 없거나 당신이 변화한 후에야 그것을 읽지 않았다면, 그것은 분명히 당신이 그것에 영향을 받았을 가능성이 없기 때문에 비난할 필요는 없지만 만약 당신이 이것이 일어났다고 주장하는 것이라면 그것은 당신의 응답으로부터 나에게 불분명하다.닐 아인 (대화) 05:24, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 기사화면에 실린 너의 말투는 처음부터 무례하고 공격적이었다.기사를 다운그레이드한 후, 당신은 그것을 "절대 엉망진창"으로 만든 것에 대해 "내 탓"이라고 말했고, "매우 편파적인 서사를 조장한다"고 비난했고, 내 언급이 증거 없이 쓰여진 것을 지지하지 않는다고 제안했다.나는 구체적인 예를 들었고, 우리가 함께 일하자고 제안했으며, 소스가 잘 되어 있는 어떤 추가도 환영했다.그 대신 당신은 유난히 방어적이 되어 "당신이 다른 이름으로 갔을 때 소싱에 대한 당신의 문제를 잊지 않았다"고 말했는데, 이것은 아마도 내가 새 편집자였을 때 어떤 사건을 불러일으킨 것으로 추정된다.이 행동은 확실히 야만적이어서 그만둘 필요가 있다.~아사라이 04:25, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
미안하지만 편집한 내용이 복사 중인지 확인할 시간이 없어.만약 그렇다면, 그것은 매우 나쁜 행동이고 관리 조치가 일어나야 한다.사용자 샌드박스의 텍스트를 전용하는 것은 극도로 실망스럽고 짜증나는 일이며 이 게시판은 이를 근절해야 한다.너무 지저분하지 않다면, 사용자에게 중지해야 한다고 경고한 다음, 최근 수정된 기사를 삭제하여 카피비오를 기록에서 제거하는 것이 가장 좋을 수 있다.그 후, 마부스카는 텍스트를 가능한 한 빨리 추가해야 한다.조누니크 (대화) 05:20, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 아무것도 찍지 말고, 우리가 우리의 샌드박스에 대한 변경사항을 게시할 때, 우리는 하이퍼링크나 URL이 Creative Commons 라이센스에 따라 충분한 귀속이라는 것에 동의한다.하지만 그것은 실망스럽고 짜증난다.여기서 그것을 하는 사람들은 당연히 그것이 화나게 하는 사람들에게 다소 경멸당할 것이다, 그것은 충분한 처벌이다.불가침헐크 (대화) 05:35, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 절의 제목에 제시된 질문에 대한 간단한 대답은 "예"이다.표절은 분명히 잘못된 것이다.진짜 문제는 이것이 표절이었는가 하는 것이다.그리고 표절은 저작권 위반과 같은 것이 아니다.이 토론은 누가 생산적으로 논평하기 전에 더 나은 제목부터 시작하는 더 나은 초점이 필요하다.필 브리저 (대화) 08:29, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
이것은 두 사람이 매우 비슷한 방식으로 같은 말을 하는 경우일 수도 있다고 말해야겠습니다.wp:agf.슬레이터스트븐 (대화) 09:05, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Slattersteven:28일 본문과 30일 본문 역시 이번 토론이 시작될 때 연계된 것으로 보고 아사라이가 위에서 제공한 출처와 페이지 번호를 비교해 보면, 내가 빠뜨린 것을 생각하면 단순히 두 편집자가 똑같은 표현을 내놓는 경우가 아니라는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다.베끼는 경우다.마부스카 10:03, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
나는 이 토론의 폐지를 요청하고 싶다.이 질문에 답변하고 관련 정책에 주목했다: WP:CWW. 더 이상의 조치를 취하거나 필요하지 않다.마부스카 14:35, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
BRM Aero Bristell 악성 삭제
| 최고를 바라며, 아훈트 고마워.드레이미스 (토크) 16:46, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
BRM Aero Bristell(대화 기록 편집으로 로그 보기 삭제 링크 보호)
사용자들은 BRM Aero Bristell wiki 페이지에서 악의적으로 정보를 삭제하고 있다.정보는 이전에 누락된 후 추가되었다.정보가 소싱되어 사용자들은 내가 추가한 정보를 삭제했다.— Shandak2020 (대화 • 기여) 02:24, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[에 의해 추가된 선행 미서명 논평
- @Shandak2020: 사실 당신의 카나드는 편집 요약에 설명되어 있는 이유 때문에 근거가 없다.이것은 WP:콘텐츠 논쟁이고 당신은 WP:편집 전쟁이다.선호하는 버전이 더 나은 이유를 기사 토크 페이지에서 논의하십시오.동의하지 않는 사람을 모욕하지 말고 내용을 토론하십시오. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 02:33, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 샨다크2020, 계속 이러면 곧장 무기한 블록으로 가는 거야.드레이미스 (토크) 02:37, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @Shandak2020:네가 추가한 콘텐츠는 스타일 매뉴얼을 위반하고, 본질적으로 홍보에 해당된다.소싱 문제가 제기되었다. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 02:38, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 샨다크2020, 계속 이러면 곧장 무기한 블록으로 가는 거야.드레이미스 (토크) 02:37, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
토크 페이지 스토커에 대한 조치
| OP는 비쇼넨이 인신공격으로 48시간 동안 봉쇄했다.존스미스2116은 블록이 만료되었을 때 요약 편집에서 인신공격하지 않도록 주의하라는 충고를 받고 있다. 또한 나는 그들이 요약 편집을 더 자주 사용하여 기사에 만들고 있는 변화를 기술할 것을 요청하고 싶다. 완전한 중단/기간 한 번으로 다른 기여자들에게는 그리 도움이 되지 않는다.GirthSummit (blether) 15:12, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
누군가가 일을 처리하고 자신의 사업에 신경을 쓰면서 할 권리가 있는 자신의 토크 페이지를 정리하고 있을 때, 또 다른 편집자는 이유 없이 와서 그들의 2센트를 아무 이유 없이 받아들여야 할 필요성을 느낄 때, 그것에 대해 어떻게 할 수 있을까?존스미스2116 (대화) 14:25, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[하라
- 다른 사용자에게 이 스레드를 알리고 토론하도록 초대한다. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 14:29, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 wp:stalker가 무엇을 의미하는지 배워라.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 14:32, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 wp:npa.Slattersteven (대화) 14:33, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 Wjemather(대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)를 의미한다면, 그들은 당신에게 에 대해 메세지를 보냈다.크리스탈.그리고 나서 당신은 편집 요약과 함께 그 메시지를 되돌렸다. (거짓 비난, 사과도 하지 않고, 위키피디아에 너무 많은 *ssholes)그들은 추가 설명으로 너를 속였다.메시지를 되돌리는 것은 분명 괜찮지만, 편집 요약은 (이 쉿! 이 조각들은 듣지 않고, 계속해서 거짓으로 비난하고, 쓰레기들은 어디에나 있다) 미개한 것이다.내용을 상의해 달라고, 정중하게 부탁했다. (그게 다 4월로 돌아왔다.일부 미디어위키 메시지가 뒤따랐다.)그리고 나서 그들은 7월 2일에 인용문을 제공해 달라고 부탁했다.편집 요약("이 생애에 너무 많은 **점")과 함께 해당 메시지를 삭제하셨습니다.그들은 NPA 경고로 응답했다.아까와 같은 편집 요약으로 그 경고를 제거했잖아. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 14:42, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 거기에 누구 이름을 말한 적이 없다.만약 누군가가 그것을 특정한 방법으로 해석하고 싶다면, 나는 그것을 통제할 수 없다.그리고 우리는 여기서 벗어나고 있다.나는 내가 적합하다고 생각되는 대로 내 토크 페이지를 편집할 권리가 있다.난 아무도 괴롭히는 사람이 아니야.나는 위키피디아에서 5개의 수치를 편집했는데 시간이 지나도 별 문제가 없었다.그러나 최근에 한 편집자가 갑자기 나타나서 사람들을 곤혹스럽게 하고 거짓 비난을 하기 시작했고, 어떤 이유에서든 사람들의 토크 페이지를 지켜보았다.많은 편집자들이 개인적으로 그 사람에 대해 불평하고 있다. 왜냐하면 그것이 그들이 그렇게 할 수 있는 유일한 방법이기 때문이다.나는 더 악화시킬 필요가 없고, 너무 많은 책임과 다른 일들은 이 모든 것을 처리하지 않고도 돌봐야 한다.이곳은 사람들이 와서 쉴 수 있는 공간이 되어야 한다.존스미스2116 (대화) 14:54, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이름을 말할 필요 없이, 우리는 모두 당신의 토크 페이지 기록을 읽고 요약을 편집할 수 있다.너는 네가 무례하고, 무례하고, 도움이 되지 않았다는 증거를 제공했다.당신이 되돌리고 비어있는 다른 편집기는 당신의 편집에 도움이 되고 건설적이었다.너는 여기서 많은 행동 규칙을 어기는 것에 매우 근접해 있고 예의 바르게 행동해야 한다.제재를 받기 싫으면 심호흡을 하고 넘어가라 독토브 14:57, 2020년 7월 5일(UTC)[하라
- 나는 거기에 누구 이름을 말한 적이 없다.만약 누군가가 그것을 특정한 방법으로 해석하고 싶다면, 나는 그것을 통제할 수 없다.그리고 우리는 여기서 벗어나고 있다.나는 내가 적합하다고 생각되는 대로 내 토크 페이지를 편집할 권리가 있다.난 아무도 괴롭히는 사람이 아니야.나는 위키피디아에서 5개의 수치를 편집했는데 시간이 지나도 별 문제가 없었다.그러나 최근에 한 편집자가 갑자기 나타나서 사람들을 곤혹스럽게 하고 거짓 비난을 하기 시작했고, 어떤 이유에서든 사람들의 토크 페이지를 지켜보았다.많은 편집자들이 개인적으로 그 사람에 대해 불평하고 있다. 왜냐하면 그것이 그들이 그렇게 할 수 있는 유일한 방법이기 때문이다.나는 더 악화시킬 필요가 없고, 너무 많은 책임과 다른 일들은 이 모든 것을 처리하지 않고도 돌봐야 한다.이곳은 사람들이 와서 쉴 수 있는 공간이 되어야 한다.존스미스2116 (대화) 14:54, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 Wjemather(대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)를 의미한다면, 그들은 당신에게 에 대해 메세지를 보냈다.크리스탈.그리고 나서 당신은 편집 요약과 함께 그 메시지를 되돌렸다. (거짓 비난, 사과도 하지 않고, 위키피디아에 너무 많은 *ssholes)그들은 추가 설명으로 너를 속였다.메시지를 되돌리는 것은 분명 괜찮지만, 편집 요약은 (이 쉿! 이 조각들은 듣지 않고, 계속해서 거짓으로 비난하고, 쓰레기들은 어디에나 있다) 미개한 것이다.내용을 상의해 달라고, 정중하게 부탁했다. (그게 다 4월로 돌아왔다.일부 미디어위키 메시지가 뒤따랐다.)그리고 나서 그들은 7월 2일에 인용문을 제공해 달라고 부탁했다.편집 요약("이 생애에 너무 많은 **점")과 함께 해당 메시지를 삭제하셨습니다.그들은 NPA 경고로 응답했다.아까와 같은 편집 요약으로 그 경고를 제거했잖아. --Deepfriedokra (토크) 14:42, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 필러가 wp:npa.Slatersteven (대화) 14:45, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[을 읽어야 한다고 말한 이유
- 괴롭힘과 토크 페이지 관찰자 사이에는 차이가 있다.가끔 질문에 대한 답이 있다면, 그 질문에 대답하는 것은 해가 되지 않는다.그래도 토크 페이지 스토커와 직접적인 관련이 없는 문제가 있는 것 같다.doktorbwordsdeeds 14:46, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 또한 Johnsmith2116은 실제로 그들의 토크 페이지와 그들이 합리적인 메시지에 어떻게 반응하는지에 대해 더 많은 관심을 끌지 않는 것처럼 들린다...——연속 # 14:48, 2020년 7월 5일(UTC)[
- e/c Hey User:존스미스2116 당신은 당신의 토크 페이지에서 아레쉬홀을 학대하는 것과 당신을 도우려는 누군가와의 차이점을 배울 필요가 있다.현재, 당신은 아르세홀이다. -엘핀 개 록시.우F 14:50, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[하라
- 또한 Johnsmith2116은 실제로 그들의 토크 페이지와 그들이 합리적인 메시지에 어떻게 반응하는지에 대해 더 많은 관심을 끌지 않는 것처럼 들린다...——연속 # 14:48, 2020년 7월 5일(UTC)[
- (여러 EC) 구체적으로 누군가에게 자신의 토크 페이지에서 떨어져 있으라고 요구하면 그렇게 해야 한다는 것이 일반적으로 받아들여진다.그래서 만약 누군가가 계속해서 당신의 대화 페이지에 당신에게 메시지를 보낸다면, 분명한 해결책이 있다.그러나 만약 당신이 문제를 일으키고 당신이 그것을 금지했기 때문에 편집자가 당신에게 말할 수 없다면, ANI의 사람들은 비록 당신에게 먼저 말하는 것이 일반적인 제안일지라도 그들이 당신을 ANI로 데려오는 것을 이해할 수 있다는 것을 알아야 한다.그리고 그럼에도 불구하고, 많은 사람들이 당신에게 그것에 대해 말하려고 했을 때 우리의 정책이나 지침을 계속 위반한다면, 당신은 차단될 가능성이 있다.당신이 메시지를 삭제한다는 것은 당신이 그것을 읽고 어떤 중요한 조언도 받아들여야 한다는 것을 의미하는데, 예를 들어, 자아가 인신공격을 차단하면서 말한 것처럼 말이다.동료 편집자들을 계속 "멍청"이라고 부르거나 그들이 "합리적이지 않다"고 말하는 것은 당신이 그렇게 하지 못했음을 암시한다.그리고 265k의 "거짓 비난" 닐 아인 (토크) 14:56, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[]이 있었을 가능성은 상당히 낮다는 것을 알아내는 데는 천재가 필요하지 않다
- 나는 그들에게 메시지를 보내는 것을 고려했지만, 그들의 이메일 옵션이 활성화되지 않았다.존스미스2116 (대화) 15:03, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- (EC) 2점을 추가할 수 있다면.우리가 바보가 아니라는 것은, 가상으로 무언가를 웅크리고 있는 것이 다른 편집자를 "합리적이지 않다"고 분명하게 언급하는 것을 우리가 무시한다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.둘째, 만약 그것이 불분명하다면, 누군가에게 당신의 토크 페이지에 들어가지 말라고 요청하는 방법은 "야, 내 토크 페이지에 더 이상 게시하지 말아줄래?"와 같이 간단하고 공손하지만 직접적인 것을 사용하는 것이다.편집자들에게 전화를 걸어 그들이 이해하기를 기대하는 것은 그들이 당신의 토크 페이지에 접근하지 않기를 바란다는 것을 의미한다.추신: 확실하지 않은 경우, 이러한 요청은 당신의 토크 페이지 또는 다른 편집자의 토크 페이지에 게시되어야 한다.편집 요약은 그 용도가 있지만, 이런 것에 사용되어서는 안 된다.그리고 내가 말했듯이 이메일은 절대 안 돼.닐 아인 (대화) 15:07, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @Johnsmith216:우리가 여기 있는 동안, 당신은 당신의 토크 페이지에 나와 있는 나의 경고를 인정하거나 이해하지 못한 것 같다.요약 편집을 시작하십시오.그들은 이 프로젝트에서 중요한 의사소통 수단이고 (.)"는 편집 요약이 아니라, 트릿이다.이 문제에 대한 당신의 협조에 대단히 감사한다.고마워요.프락시디카에 (대화) 14:57, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 부메랑이 부탁했다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 14:58, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @Johnsmith216: 아, 어서.당신이 누구를 말하는지 여기에 쓰여진 위의 링크에서 분명히 알 수 있다.이 작은 글에 대해 자세히 설명해 주시겠습니까?@Wjemather:사용자가 이 사용자의 적개심으로 응답할 때는 대화 페이지에서 벗어나 관리자나 여기에 보고하면 된다. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 15:02, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 사람들의 자각 부족은 나를 계속 놀라게 한다.부메랑 말고 어떤 결과가 나올 수 있을까?필 브리저 (대화) 15:06, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 초안:Wikipedia:우리는 네가 생각하는 것만큼 멍청하지 않아?그런데 부메랑이 때린 것이 나타난다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:08, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) 부메랑이 파견됐다.편집 요약 편집에서 끔찍한 인신공격으로 48시간 동안 차단되었고, 요약 편집에 접근한 사용자를 대상으로 했다.비쇼넨 tålk 15:10, 2020년 7월 5일(UTC)
토크 페이지HK는 순수히 히트한 작품
| 기사 피터 로마리는 삭제되었다.사용자 준설드크는 3개월 전에 마지막으로 편집했으며, 그들의 대화 페이지에 있는 불쾌한 내용은 리브델드 되었다.더 이상 열어둘 필요가 없다.비쇼넨 tålk 18:07, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC) |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 삭제하기 위한 기사의 논의에 관여했다.기사를 쓴 이 사람이 토크페이지에 가서 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dreddhk을 보았다.
이게 얼마나 많은 규칙을 깨는지 어디서부터 시작해야 하지?그가 작성한 페이지는 삭제되고, 몇 년 동안 위키피디아에 접속하지 않은 것 같고, 누군가 메모를 쓰고, 지우고, User가 다시 올리면 우리는 트와일라잇 존으로 들어간다.나는 다른 사람들도 불평을 했지만, 이것은 단지 방금 남겨진 근거 없고, 비지원적이며, 잠재적으로 모욕적인 물질에 지나지 않는 것 같다.철자법은 나쁘고, 또한 그가 쓴 기사의 주제에 의해 해고된 것처럼 보이는 것에 대해 횡설수설한다.또한 대상과 대상의 동생을 모르는 것처럼 행동했다(또한 그에게 공격을 남겼다).
이 사람은 토크 페이지 가이드라인이 개인 페이지에 적용되는지 전혀 모르거나 상관하지 않는 것 같다.그들이 여기 온 지 거의 7년이 지났으니 만약 그들이 지금 여기에 온다면 우리는 그들이 뭔가를 봤다는 것을 안다!
그들이 쓴 글을 마지막으로 비운 사람이 짖어대자 그리고 사용자가 빈 것을 다시 올렸으니 페이지를 비우지 않을 것이다.나는 여기서 변호사가 되려고 하는 것은 아니지만, 명예훼손은 많은 나라에서 범죄라는 것을 알고 있고 또한 매일 무언가가 일어나고 있는 것은 또 다른 공화국이다.6년 동안, 그가 그들의 주장을 관철했을지도 모른다.제우스비어드2018 (토크) 17:39, 2020년 7월 5일 (토크) 제우스비어드2018 (토크) 17:48, 2020년 7월 5일 (토크)[
- 나는 이 토론의 결과가 나올 때까지 사용자 토크 페이지에서 잠재적으로 불쾌감을 줄 수 있는 내용을 삭제했다.그것은 여전히 역사에서 볼 수 있다.필 브리저 (대화) 17:59, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
필 브리저 덕분에 잘 지내셨네요삭제 후보로 지명된 글은 삭제됐는데, 페이지 전체를 비워둘까?저보다 더 많은 지식을 가진 여러분들에게 그것을 맡기겠다.제우스비어드 2018 (토크) 18:03, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 편집된 내용이 수정되었다.RickinBaltimore (대화) 18:03, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
오스틴 음악 반달의 4가지 레인지블록
| El C가 배치한 4개의 레인지 블록.비쇼넨 tålk 18:10, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC) |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
음악 기사에 적극적으로 잘못된 사실을 집어넣고 있는 사람을 위해 4개의 레인지블록을 요청하고 싶다.IP는 모두 텍사스주 오스틴 출신이다.
- 특수:기여금/2600:387:A:3:0:0:0:0:0/64
- 특수:기여금/2600:387:A:5:0:0:0:0:0/64
- 특수:기여금/2600:387:A:7:0:0:0:0:0/64
- 특수:기여금/2600:387:A:9:0:0:0:0:0/64
초점의 위치와 영역, 특히 워먼블즈(밴드)의 음악에 대한 관심은 2018년 9월 외설됐지만 스페셜 등 텍사스 IP를 계속 사용한 베로네66을 떠올리게 한다.기부금/99.23.39.93.이 녀석은 끈질긴 고통이다.Binksternet (talk) 17:41, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[하라
차단됨 – 3개월 동안(모두)El_C 17:55, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 고마워! 대박이야.Binksternet (대화) 18:08, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
2020년 7월 6일
| 처리했다.블랙 카이트 (대화) 13:53, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 대화:무보슈구는 사용자:2600:1012:B160:FD21:0:0:4A:97A:8C01. CupcakePerson13 (대화) 13:34, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
TBAN 해제 요청
| 지역사회의 합의는 정상운영에 관한 TBAN의 해제에 찬성한다.행운을 빌며 향후 편집에 신경 쓰세요.코백베어 (토크) 12:46, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
2019년 8월 30일 개에 대한 TBAN 해제를 요청한다.결정문에는 "지역사회가 동일한 사항을 재고하기 위해 3개월의 기간을 거쳐 여기에 재신청할 수 있다"고 적혀 있었다.
위키피디아에서 몇 달 동안 휴식을 취한 후, 2019년 12월에 잠정적으로 돌아왔고, 그 후 올 3월에 강하게 돌아왔으며, 그 이후로도 무겁게 편집하고 있다.나는 작년에 ANI에서 내가 고발당한 PA나 건방진 편집이나 옹호나 다른 어떤 것에도 고발된 적이 없다.비록 3개월 후에 다시 신청할 수 있다는 말을 들었지만, 다른 편집자들과 잘 일할 수 있는 내 능력에 자신감을 갖도록(혹은 핫 스팟을 피해) 그리고 편집 이력을 통해 다른 사람들에게 보여줌으로써, 나는 백과사전을 만들고 그렇게 협력적인 일을 하기 위해 이곳에 왔다는 것을 (지금은 2,000개의 편집이 있다) 요청하기 전에 스스로 10개월의 시간을 허락했다.y. 나는 이 기간 동안 많은 관찰과 학습을 했고, 위키백과 내에서 수용 가능하고 수용 불가능한 것을 인식할 수 있다.
그 동안 나는 고양이 기사, 호랑이 기사, 뱀 기사, 주립 숲, 공원, PRODED 또는 AfD'd 등 다양한 주제에 대한 여러 기사를 보강하고, AfDs에 투표하고, 프랑스어를 번역한 후 기사를 정리하며, 위키프로젝트에 가입하고, 목록 기사 뭉치(I love list), 역사 기사들, 아르티 등을 다루었다.NRHP 장소의 클로스들, Wikimedia에서의 나의 첫 이미지 추가, 장미, 역사적인 아프리카계 미국인들에 대한 모든 것을 배웠고, 현재 조지 플로이드 시위와 남부 연합 기념물 파괴와 관련된 목록 기사들을 만들고 있다.
개 주제에 대해 TBAN을 해제하는 것을 고려하십시오.개 품종 기사 작업에는 특별히 관심이 없지만, 가끔 모든 기사에 걸쳐 편집하고 있는 것을 작업하고 있다(작자 링크 파라미터를 사용하여 작가와 핫링크를 하던 날처럼 고양이 기사를 모두 뒤졌지만, 그가 인용한 개 기사들에서는 그렇게 할 수 없었기 때문에 짧게 멈춰야 했다).개는 어디서나 볼 수 있고 인간의 삶의 많은 부분을 차지한다.나 또한 동물 보호소 기사를 편집하던 날처럼 개들이 관여할지도 모르기 때문에 누군가가 나를 불러낼 것인지 아닌지에 대한 걱정 없이 편집만 할 수 있었으면 좋겠다.나는 제한 없이 위키백과 편집자가 될 수 있는 자유를 원한다.작년에 있었던 행동이나 발현된 행동은 현재 존재하지 않는 것 같고, 나의 편집 이력은 내가 위키백과에서 비슷한 문제에 휘말리지 않고 편집하는 능력을 가지고 있다는 것을 증명해 줄 것이다.
— 정상 운영 (대화) 09:24, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Normal Op: 당신은 어떤 행동이 변화해야 하는지/변했는지에 대해 확신이 없는 것처럼 들린다.이전에 무엇을 했는지, 그리고 이제 무엇을 다르게 할 것인지 좀 더 구체적으로 설명해 주시겠습니까? --Deepfriedokra (토크) 09:30, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- @Deepfriedokra:무슨 일이 있었는지 작년 ANI를 봐줘.그것은 지저분했고 나는 "머리 박기"라고 말하는 것 외에는 요약하기 시작할 수조차 없었다.그 이후로 내가 배운 것은 온라인상에서 당신이 모르고, 볼 수 없고, 직접적으로 교류할 수 없는 사람들을 다루는 많은 방법들이다.위키피디아와 관련하여, 그것은 지금 당장 고쳐야 할 것이 거의 없다는 것, 강하게 반대되는 관점을 가진 사람들을 당신처럼 직접적으로 끌어들이지 않는다는 것, 내가 일을 미룰 수 있고 모든 것을 고칠 필요가 없다는 것, 그리고 너무 심각하게 받아들이지 않는다는 것, 그리고 다른 사람들의 관점에 반하는 주장을 하는 것이 다른 에드의 지지를 얻지 못할 것이라는 것을 인식하는 것을 포함한다.그렇지 않으면 관찰자들을 자신으로부터 멀어지게 할 것이다.나는 심지어 자기 자신을 위한 그리고 온라인 상황 모두를 위한 탈분산 기술들을 배웠다.확신이 없는 것 같으면 까마귀 먹는 것을 좋아하지 않고 TBAN을 들어달라고 부탁할 만한 장소인지도 확신하지 못했기 때문이다.위의 나의 요청은 나의 현재 기부금에 대한 것이 아니라 나의 낡은 더러운 세탁물에 대한 것이 더 큰 틀에 박혀 있었다.정상 Op (대화) 18:01, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- 네가 핏불만 피하면 난 거의 괜찮아.가이(도움말!) 21:31, 2020년 6월 28일 (UTC)[
- ... 그리고 물론 어떤 으르렁거리거나 물어뜯는 행동을 하지 않도록 매우 조심해라.EEng 23:00, 2020년 6월 28일(UTC) 참고: 장난이 장난이 아니니까, 무료.
- EENG, 나는 옷을 다 차려입고 소파에 앉아서 반응하고 있어, 나 역시 장난꾸러기야.농담은 차치하고, 나는 이 주제 금지를 해제하는 것을 지지한다. 왜냐하면 편집자는 그들이 어떻게 잘못되어 갔는지, 그리고 어떻게 하면 그러한 행동을 피할 수 있는지 이해하는 것 같기 때문이다.그러나 나는 개에게 물리거나 핏불이나 개 품종이나 품종이나 품종이 잘 물리는 부분에 있어서 어떤 파괴적인 편집도 당신에게 대한 제재의 재추정에 직면하게 될 것이라고 <정상적 운영>에 주의를 기울여야 한다.또한 최고 품질의 신뢰할 수 있는 출처만 사용하도록 주의할 필요가 있다.1년 전에 아주 형편없는 자료들을 내놓으셨잖아요.출처가 신뢰할 수 있다고 믿지 않는 한 출처를 제안하지 마십시오.다른 편집자들이 신뢰할 수 없는 출처를 평가하는데 시간을 낭비하기를 기대하는 것은 파괴적이다.컬런328 2020년 6월 29일 02:57 (UTC) 토론하자[하라
- 지원 - 정상 운영은 최소한 시작하려면 해당 주제 편집기에서 편집에 대한 정밀도가 증가한다는 것을 깨달아야 한다.필요하다면 TB를 다시 붙일 수 있고, 다시 붙이면 다시 들어올리기가 훨씬 더 힘들다는 점을 이해할 필요가 있다.그렇긴 하지만, 그 호소는 편집장이 성숙하고 과거의 실수로부터 배웠다는 것을 보여주니, 기회를 주자.Mjroot (대화) 17:39, 2020년 6월 29일 (UTC)[
- 비관리자 지원.그들이 그 문제를 알아낸 것 같다.참고: 여러분이 정말 열정적인 주제에 대해, 다시 빠져드는 것은 정말 쉽다.당신의 뜨거운 주제를 피하는 것이 가장 좋을 것이다.호빗 (토크) 16:42, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 논평: 나는 자신감 있는 투표에 매우 감사한다.감사합니다.정상 Op (대화) 17:11, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 지원 - 정상 운영은 10개월 만에 큰 성과를 거두고 프로젝트에 많은 긍정적인 기여를 했으며, 명백히 토지의 법칙을 배우고 있다.가장 중요한 테이크아웃은 위키피디아가 누가 옳고 그른가의 싸움터가 아니라 커뮤니티에 기반을 둔 합의 프로젝트라는 점이며, 최근 이들의 기여는 이에 대한 많은 증거를 보여주고 있다는 점이라고 생각한다.PearlSt82 (대화) 01:37, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 질문:결정을 내리고 이 일을 마무리 지어야 할 관리자 같은 것이 있는가?정상 Op (토크) 04:20, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 설명:그냥 관찰을 신청해야겠다고 생각했을 뿐이야.나는 방금 이 사용자의 TBAN 상황을 알게 되었다. 왜냐하면 그가 세계에서 가장 폭발적으로 논란이 되고 있는 기사 주제에 대해 원치 않는 부정적인 의견을 유휴 채팅으로 올렸기 때문이다.그는 아무도 또는 모든 사람들에게 의견을 개진했는데, 사람들이 여기서 남부연합을 괴롭히고 있다는 것이 얼마나 슬픈 일인가.나는 WP를 인용하면서 핵 벌집을 되돌렸다.NOTFORMUM.WP 무시:그는 WP를 인용하며 이를 번복했다.TALKO (내가 그의 의견을 어떻게든 편집한 듯) 이 또한 실제로 수다와 의견에 관여하지 말라고 충고한다.그리고 나서 그는 아카이브 기능을 남용하여 아카이브에 자신의 채팅을 숨기는 시늉을 했지만, 기존 아카이브에 추가된 단 하나의 새로운 코멘트만이 아카이브가 영원불멸로 축복해 줄 것처럼 기존 아카이브에 추가되었다.그리고 나서 그는 또 다시 WP에서 나에게 다음과 같이 지시할 것을 추측하기 위해 경고 템플릿을 남용하면서 내 토크 페이지에 나를 더 괴롭혔다.TALKNO 중... 위키피디아에 온지 11년이 지난 후 나를 환영한다.그리고 나서 그는 어떻게 그런 일을 하지 않는지 너희들에게 말하려고 왔어.그래서 나는 그가 더 이상 개들을 만지지 않을 것이라고 생각한다. 플로이드 이후의 남부 연합과 공동묘지에 대한 슬픔에 대한 진정한 이야기를 시작하는 것에 찬성한다.그냥 FYI든 뭐든.— 스머콜라 (대화) 10:46, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
사용자:MilesSmilesNow WP:NOTHERE 및 가능한 양말
사용자가 많은 정보를 삭제하면 출처를 바꿀 수 있지만 대신 많은 정보를 삭제한다.WP:NOTHERE 및 사용자 양말:외메르코카튀르크 [[66] [67] [[68] 섀도4dark (대화) 13:34, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그의 편집 요약을 근거로 볼 때, 그는 단지 위키백과를 삭제하는 것 같다.더 이상 사용되지 않는 출처, 그건 좋은 일이다.하지만 새로운 사용자가 첫 번째 편집에서 그렇게 하는 것은 이상하다는 것을 인정한다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 14분 54초, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- btw, 당신이 생각하고 있는 양말마스터는 위키피디아 입니다.Sockpuppet 조사/Drankcarat 및 두 가지를 연결하는 차이점이 있고 그것이 유일한 문제라면(편집 자체는 그렇지 않은 것 같다) WP:SPI는 접수처다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 14분 59초, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
양말 인형에서 IP 사용자 탈출 블록
| NinjaRobotPirate(비관리자 폐쇄) ~ Amkgp p 05:06, 2020년 7월 7일(UTC)에 의해1개월간 차단된 IP [응답] |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
84.69.69.48은 파괴적인 편집으로 인해 한 달 동안 차단되었다.그러나 사용자가 여기에 표시된 84.203.70.13. 84.203.70.13의 파괴적 편집 편집, 여기에 표시된 84.203.69.48의 편집, 여기에 표시된 것과 정확히 동일한 양말 인형과 함께 블록을 회피하고 있는 것으로 보인다.나는 그 문제를 SPI에 가져가려고 노력했지만 지금까지 그것에 대한 관심이 없었다.기다리고 있는 동안 84.203.70.13은 계속해서 파괴적인 편집을 하고 있는데, 나는 오늘 이것을 되돌렸다.아르메곤 (대화) 23:54, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 한 달 동안 또 막혔어.나는 이 ISP에 대해 잘 몰라서 레인지 블록을 하기가 꺼려.어쨌든 이러한 IP주소는 변경되기 전에 오랫동안 고착되어 있는 것 같다.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 04:18, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
오타와 음악 반달에 대한 또 다른 레인지 블록
| 최신 IPV6/64 범위는 닌자RobotPirate에 의해 3개월 동안 차단됨.(비관리자 폐쇄). --Jack Frost (대화) 07:02, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
오타와 주변과 오타와 지역에서 IP를 사용하는 누군가가 허위 자료와 잘못된 날짜를 추가하며 음악 기사를 파괴하고 있다.물질과학자는 이전 범위를 두 번 차단했는데, 한 달 동안 두 번째 차단했다.아래 목록의 상위 범위는 현재 활성화되어 있다.Binksternet (대화) 04:12, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 2020년 7월 – 2607:FEA8:BE20:898:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적))
- 2020년 4월~6월 – 2607:FEA8:BE20:1F90:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적) (2회 차단)
- 2019년 8월 – 2607년:FEA8:BE20:655:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적))
- 2018년 10월 – 2019년 7월 – 2607:FEA8:BE20:6E0:0:0:0:0:0/64(블록 범위 ·블록 로그(글로벌) ·WHOIS(부분적))
반달 전용 계정
사용자 계정 Real phil rudd는 2020-07-04년에 만들어졌고 그 이후로 그들의 편집의 100%가 비파괴적이었다.수일 동안 여러 차례 경고했지만 이 행동을 멈추는 데는 아무런 도움이 되지 않았다.제재가 그 메시지를 전달할 수도 있다.솔라플래시Discussion 20:22, 2020년 7월 8일 (UTC)[
- NOTHERE로 외설됨. -Ad Orientem (대화) 20:52, 2020년 7월 8일 (UTC)[
법적위협
| RickinBaltimothy에게 외설되었다.–Davey2010Talk 12:19, 2020년 7월 7일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, The3Kittens는 Chutti TV 기사에서 이 위협을 했다. 그들은 또한 내용을 둘러싼 전쟁을 편집하고 있지만 위협이 훨씬 더 중요하다고 생각했다. 고마워, –Davey2010Talk 12:10, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 편집을 위해 사용자를 차단했다.그들이 끊임없는 편집 전쟁을 위해 그렇게 가고 있는 것은 말할 것도 없고, 그러나 법적인 위협은 충분했다.RickinBaltimore (대화) 12시 15분, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- 동의해, RickinBaltimore가 여기서 당신의 신속한 행동에 대해 감사해, 나는 전에 누군가 그렇게 빨리 차단되는 것을 본 적이 없는 것 같아! :) 어쨌든 다시 한번 당신의 도움에 감사해, 고마워, –Davey2010Talk 12:19, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
의견조사 통지 편집 워링
| 자우어백에 의해 일주일 동안 봉쇄되었다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 19분 12초, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
누가 렘즈2075(대화 · 기여)에 대한 단서를 주는 것을 도와줄 수 있는가?그는 편집-전쟁을 위해 72시간 동안 새로운 시간을 보냈으며 위키백과 강연에서 다시 편집-전쟁을 벌이고 있다.WikiProject 한국 강연에서:RfC에 다소 노골적으로 부적절한canvassing" 와서 도와 주는"노트 다시 복귀시키다.Liancourt rocks나는 보통 그 페이지들에서 자유자재로 행동하고 차단했을 것이지만, 문제의 특정 RfC에서는 의견을 등록했기 때문에 이번 기회에 하지 않을 것이다.Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:19, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집 전쟁을 만들고 싶지 않았다.왜냐하면 나는 이런 이유로 막혔기 때문이다.하지만 고쳐야 할 것은 고쳐야 한다.나는 이 문제를 전쟁을 편집하지 않고 토론으로 해결하고 싶다. --Leemsj2075 (토크 기여) 12:05, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 편집 전쟁을 일으킬 생각은 전혀 없었다고 말한다. --Leemsj2075 (TalkContractions) 12:15, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
일주일 동안 막혔어.자우어백dude?/dude.12:39, 2020년 7월 7일 (UTC)[
IP에 의한 남용
- 93.138.138.104 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 93.138.124.186 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 93.136.87.219 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 93.138.73.127 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
유사한 IP의 그룹이 내가 기고하거나 논의한 기사의 토크 페이지에 메시지를 게시했다(가능하다 WP:그것은 나에 대한 경멸적인 내용과 사적인 정보를 포함했다.따라서 일부 메시지는 지나치게 관대한 것이었다.--WEBDuB (대화) 16:37, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[하라
- 거짓말 그만해, 아무 것도 모욕적이고 사적인 정보라고 쓰여져 있지 않아.그냥 읽어.왜 관리자들에게 거짓말을 하는 거야?그들은 네가 거짓말을 하는 것을 금지해야 한다.— 93.138.73.127 (대화) 17:28, 2020년 6월 30일 (UTC)[이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- @WEBDuB:비록 지금은 왜 그들이 과시를 했는지 말할 방법이 없지만, 지나친 관점의 개정이 있다.—C.Fred (대화) 00:51, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 테즈우(토크·연고)도 Talk:Croatia에서 지나치게 시시콜콜한 편집을 했다.IP를 조작하고 있을 가능성은?사용자:GeneralNotability가 Tezwoo를 차단했고 그들은 이 상황에 대해 약간의 조언을 할지도 모른다.에드존스턴 (대화) 05:11, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 에드존스턴, 나는 그들과 토론할 때마다 실제로 테즈우를 차단해 왔다. 추가 조사를 통해 그 IP가 실제로 그들의 것인지 아닌지에 대해 합리적인 의심을 품게 되었다.나는 그들이 무엇을 했거나 하지 않았는지에 대해 논평하지 않기 때문에 지나친 관점의 자료를 볼 수 없다.GeneralNotability (대화) 12:45, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- Talk:Croatia and Talk:에서 모든 편집이 토크 페이지에 보이는 것처럼 보이기 때문에 편집은 내부 오류로 인해 지나치게 시각적이다.노박 조코비치 [69] 내가 처음 그것을 알아차린 곳.사용자들이 서명을 시도한 후 이상한 버그를 만들어 낸 그들의 게시물에 IP가 서명하지 않았기 때문이라고 추측한다.테즈우 (대화) 20:55, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 테즈우는 아무 상관도 없어, 분명히 이 IP들의 불안정한 행동과는 관련이 없을 거야.나는 나에 대한 경멸적인 내용과 사적인 정보 때문에 감독 요청을 했다.나는 그 요청과 감독팀의 승인에 대한 증거로 이메일을 가지고 있다.이러한 행동은 이후에도 계속되었는데, 이 절에서도 볼 수 있다.--WEBDuB (대화) 22:05, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- Talk:Croatia and Talk:에서 모든 편집이 토크 페이지에 보이는 것처럼 보이기 때문에 편집은 내부 오류로 인해 지나치게 시각적이다.노박 조코비치 [69] 내가 처음 그것을 알아차린 곳.사용자들이 서명을 시도한 후 이상한 버그를 만들어 낸 그들의 게시물에 IP가 서명하지 않았기 때문이라고 추측한다.테즈우 (대화) 20:55, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 에드존스턴, 나는 그들과 토론할 때마다 실제로 테즈우를 차단해 왔다. 추가 조사를 통해 그 IP가 실제로 그들의 것인지 아닌지에 대해 합리적인 의심을 품게 되었다.나는 그들이 무엇을 했거나 하지 않았는지에 대해 논평하지 않기 때문에 지나친 관점의 자료를 볼 수 없다.GeneralNotability (대화) 12:45, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 테즈우(토크·연고)도 Talk:Croatia에서 지나치게 시시콜콜한 편집을 했다.IP를 조작하고 있을 가능성은?사용자:GeneralNotability가 Tezwoo를 차단했고 그들은 이 상황에 대해 약간의 조언을 할지도 모른다.에드존스턴 (대화) 05:11, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @WEBDuB:비록 지금은 왜 그들이 과시를 했는지 말할 방법이 없지만, 지나친 관점의 개정이 있다.—C.Fred (대화) 00:51, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
사용자별 중단 편집:바와이야의 차이파우
사용자:차이파는 출처와 정책을 고수하지 않고 바와이야에서 편집-워링([71], [72], [73])을 계속한다.이 편집에서, 그는 소스 위조에 가까운 소스들이 진술하는 것과 대조하여 리드 문장을 변경했다.여기서 그는 MOS:LEADLANG에 따라 추가된 벵골어 등가명을 제거했다.그는 계속해서 WP를 언급하고 있다.MOSIS는 이 초경계 주제에 부과할 것이지만, MOSIS는 "인기 문자의 이러한 회피는 주로 인도와 관련된 기사에만 적용되며, 그 중에서도 힌두교, 불교, 파키스탄 또는 인도의 인접 국가에 관한 기사에서는 제외된다"고 명시하고 있다.이 모든 이슈들은 이틀 전 이미 토크페이지에서 설명되었지만, 사용자는 합의점을 찾기 위해 결실을 맺을 의도가 없는 것 같다. --제임브 15:25, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:Kmzayeme가 WP를 표시하는 중:그 글에 있는 이슈를 소유하라.이 되돌리기[74]에서 그들은 그 기사가 "예상적으로" 인도어가 아니며 주요 언어가 벵갈어라고 주장하며, 따라서 WP는 다음과 같다.MOSIS는 적용되지 않는다.음악의 형태는 인도의 코흐 왕국과 인도, 방글라데시 그리고 서벵골과 아삼이라는 두 개의 인도 주에 걸쳐 있는 역사/문화적 발자취와 관련이 있다.차이파우 (대화) 16:07, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- Bhawaiya는 여러 국가와 언어 영역에 걸쳐 있으며 WP:MOSIS가 적용된다.인디케이터 대본에 나와 있지 않은 바와이야는 아무것도 잃어버리지 않는다.차이파우 (대화) 16:12, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Chaipau: 이러한 맥락에서 'Predomyally'는 오로지 인도와 관련된 기사를 의미하며, Bhawaia는 당신이 스스로 받아들인 방글라데시와 인도 둘 다와 관련된 음악이다. WP는 어떻게 하는가?여기에 MOSIS가 적용되나? --제일 (talk) 16:15, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- @Kmzayeme: 그 뜻은 전적으로 나에게 새로운 것이다.차이파우 (대화) 16:23, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Chaipau:그렇다면 이런 맥락에서 '예의롭게'란 무엇인가?그리고 이 기사가 "여러 나라를 흩어지게 한다"고 직접 말했는데 왜 이 기사가 '인도적'이라고 생각하는가?내 생각에 너는 단지 여기서 시스템을 조작하고 있는 것 같아.안정적인 버전의 기사는 편집 전쟁을 시작하기 전에 항상 MOS:LEADLANG에 따라 현지 대본으로 이름을 옮겨왔다. --Zayeme (talk) 16:35, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Kmzayeme:너는 왜 주로 전화를 끊었니?WP:MOSIS는 "다문화적" 이슈를 건드리는 이런 유형의 충돌을 정확하게 다루도록 선동되었다.토의에서:바와이야#바와이야 역시 인도와 네팔에 속한다.당신의 입장은 방글라데시에 관한 것 뿐이라는 것이었습니다.당신은 심지어 바와이야가 아삼의 분할되지 않은 골파라 구역에서 토착적인 형태가 아니라는 입장을 취했고, 인용구가 있는 언급이 주어졌을 때 바와이야가 북벵골에서만 유래되었다고 주장하면서 그것을 밀어내었다[75].여기 또 다른 언급이 있는데, 이번에는 방글라데시 자체에서 Bhawaiya도 골파라의 토착지라고 분명히 밝히고 있다[76].분명히 WP:OWN. Chaipau (대화) 20:01, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 네가 거짓말을 하고 거짓 비난을 하는 것은 분명 너의 행동에 문제가 있다.나는 이 주제가 국경을 초월한 것이고 방글라데시와 인도 양쪽과 관련된 것이라고 분명히 말했는데, ANI와 토크 페이지 둘 다에서 여러 번 언급되었다.이전에 나는 네가 이해에 문제가 있다고 생각했지만, 지금은 그것을 오해하려는 의도적인 시도인 것 같다.나의 편집에 대해서는, 여기 토크 페이지에서도 설명되었는데, 당신이 추가한 인용문은 바와이야가 골파라에서 유래했다는 것을 어디에도 말하지 않았다.그리고 "predomously"라는 단어에 강조되는 것은 그것이 WP의 범위를 정의하기 때문이다.MOSIS, WP를 따라야 하는 이유:MOS:리드랑 MOS:READLANG, 위키백과의 모든 기사의 일반 지침? --제임 (talk) 09:49, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Kmzayeme:거짓말에 대한 비난은 WP이다.PA, 그리고 당신은 이 일이 일어난 곳의 예를 들어야만 한다.당신은 바와이야가 원산지인 지역에 골파라를 포함시키는 것에 반대해 왔고 내가 위에서 보고한 당신의 편집이 그것에 대한 증거다.내가 앞서 알려준 참고문헌에는 바와이야가 쿠흐 베하르 출신이며 랑푸르와 골파라에서도 발견된다고 구체적으로 적혀 있다.나는 여기서(위) 바와이야가 골파라를 포함한 이 모든 지역이 원산지라는 추가적인 언급을 했다.
- WP:MOSIS가 MOS:리드랑보다 우선시하는 이유는 WP:MOSIS는 일반 MOS:LEADLANG을 통해 인디케이터 스크립트를 위해 특별히 만들어진 특수한 경우로서, 더욱이 바와이야는 벵골어뿐만 아니라 아사메어 언어와도 관련이 있다.Bhawaiya는 다국어 및 지역과 연관되어 있으므로 WP:MOS:LEADLANG이 아니라 MOS:LEADLANG이 해당된다.WP의 해당 부분:MOSIS는: 인도어 대본을 피하는 한 가지 이유는 종종 주제에서 원래 이름이 될 수 있는 그들 고유의 대본을 가진 다른 언어들이 너무 많기 때문이다. 또한, 영어 이외의 철자의 정확성을 검증하는 데 너무 자주 문제가 발생한다. 세 번째 이유는 어떤 원어민 대본을 포함시킬지에 대한 의견 불일치가 빈번하기 때문인데, 이는 그 모두를 피하려는 결의로 이어졌다.차이파우(대화) 12시 48분, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 네가 거짓말을 하고 거짓 비난을 하는 것은 분명 너의 행동에 문제가 있다.나는 이 주제가 국경을 초월한 것이고 방글라데시와 인도 양쪽과 관련된 것이라고 분명히 말했는데, ANI와 토크 페이지 둘 다에서 여러 번 언급되었다.이전에 나는 네가 이해에 문제가 있다고 생각했지만, 지금은 그것을 오해하려는 의도적인 시도인 것 같다.나의 편집에 대해서는, 여기 토크 페이지에서도 설명되었는데, 당신이 추가한 인용문은 바와이야가 골파라에서 유래했다는 것을 어디에도 말하지 않았다.그리고 "predomously"라는 단어에 강조되는 것은 그것이 WP의 범위를 정의하기 때문이다.MOSIS, WP를 따라야 하는 이유:MOS:리드랑 MOS:READLANG, 위키백과의 모든 기사의 일반 지침? --제임 (talk) 09:49, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Kmzayeme:너는 왜 주로 전화를 끊었니?WP:MOSIS는 "다문화적" 이슈를 건드리는 이런 유형의 충돌을 정확하게 다루도록 선동되었다.토의에서:바와이야#바와이야 역시 인도와 네팔에 속한다.당신의 입장은 방글라데시에 관한 것 뿐이라는 것이었습니다.당신은 심지어 바와이야가 아삼의 분할되지 않은 골파라 구역에서 토착적인 형태가 아니라는 입장을 취했고, 인용구가 있는 언급이 주어졌을 때 바와이야가 북벵골에서만 유래되었다고 주장하면서 그것을 밀어내었다[75].여기 또 다른 언급이 있는데, 이번에는 방글라데시 자체에서 Bhawaiya도 골파라의 토착지라고 분명히 밝히고 있다[76].분명히 WP:OWN. Chaipau (대화) 20:01, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Chaipau:그렇다면 이런 맥락에서 '예의롭게'란 무엇인가?그리고 이 기사가 "여러 나라를 흩어지게 한다"고 직접 말했는데 왜 이 기사가 '인도적'이라고 생각하는가?내 생각에 너는 단지 여기서 시스템을 조작하고 있는 것 같아.안정적인 버전의 기사는 편집 전쟁을 시작하기 전에 항상 MOS:LEADLANG에 따라 현지 대본으로 이름을 옮겨왔다. --Zayeme (talk) 16:35, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Kmzayeme: 그 뜻은 전적으로 나에게 새로운 것이다.차이파우 (대화) 16:23, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- @Chaipau: 이러한 맥락에서 'Predomyally'는 오로지 인도와 관련된 기사를 의미하며, Bhawaia는 당신이 스스로 받아들인 방글라데시와 인도 둘 다와 관련된 음악이다. WP는 어떻게 하는가?여기에 MOSIS가 적용되나? --제일 (talk) 16:15, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 그냥 댓글로.MOS는 정책이라기 보다는 지침이다.그러나 선두에서 인디케이터 대본을 제외하는 근거는 파키스탄과 방글라데시 주제에 관한 기사에도 동일하게 적용되는 많은 의미를 지니고 있다.특히 대본에 등장하는 인물에 대한 약간의 조정이나 심지어 도매로 대체하는 것까지도 우리는 많은 뒷감당을 받고 있다.이것은 영어 위키백과로서, 그러한 변화들은 대부분의 독자들을 혼란스럽게 하고 있으며 때때로 반달들에 의해 폄하 용어/조소/비열한 행위 등이 추가되고 몇 주, 몇 달 또는 심지어 몇 년 동안 그곳에 방치되는 결과를 낳기도 한다.그 기사들에 영향을 주고 있는 민족주의적인 문제들은 (카스트/트라이브와 종교적인 논쟁은 말할 것도 없고) 이것을 지뢰밭으로 만든다.그래서, 원어민 대본을 포함시킬 만한 설득력 있는 이유가 없는 한, 정말로 요점이 별로 없고, 원하지 않고 다루기 힘든 반달리즘의 가능성이 있다. - 시투시 (토크) 13:08, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Sitush:네, 바로 그겁니다.많은 경우에 영어 위키피디아의 독자들은 그들의 시스템에 올바른 글꼴을 가지고 있지 않을 수 있고, 이 스크립트들을 몸 안에 가지고 있다는 것 역시 말이 되지 않는다.이 경우 독자가 보게 될 것은 모두 빈 상자(예: 바와이야#)이다.예).이것을 로마자화 없이 인디케이터의 대본으로만 갖는 것은 이치에 맞지 않으며, 그렇다고 해도 번역 없이는 아무런 의미가 없다.그렇다면 이 가사가 많은 대본과 연관되어 있다면, 우리는 모두 대본에 넣어야 할까?왼쪽 패널에 "Language" 아래의 다른 언어 기사에 대한 링크가 있기 때문에 우리는 이 스크립트가 필요하지 않을 수 있다.차이파우 (대화) 13:45, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Chaipau: 당신은 여러 번 ([77], [78]) 내가 이 기사가 오로지 방글라데시와 관련이 있다고 주장했다고 진술했다. 그리고 내가 이미 내가 아니라고 설명한 사례들을 보여준 후에, 당신은 지금 당신의 거짓말에 대한 증거를 요구하고 있다.그것은 정직하게 말하면 또 다른 형태의 괴롭힘이다.@Sitush: 당신의 조언에 감사하며, 만약 그것이 인도의 국경을 넘어선 기사들에 적용된다면, 페이지에 반영되어야 하지 않을까?현재 WP:MOSIS는 "대부분 인도 관련 예술"에만 적용되며 인도 인접 국가에 대한 기사에는 적용되지 않는다고 제안한다. --Zayeme (talk) 17:23, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
알라마123 편집사적 백인우월주의 행동주의
알라마123은 2012년 자신의 사용자 이름을 등록하고 화학 주제 편집을 몇 차례 한 뒤 8년 동안 사라졌다.2020년에 돌아온 알라마123의 허둥대는 활동은 거의 모든 편집자들이 위키피디아를 백인우월주의의 방향으로 기울이려는 시도와 함께 매우 다른 맛을 지니고 있다.
- 터커 칼슨(폭스뉴스 등) 전기에서는 '백인 우월주의자'를 '백인 동일주의자'로 바꾸고 복스, GQ, 미디어 매터스 등에 대한 존경을 줄였다.
- 알라마123은 주차장에서 흑인 남자와 싸우는 쿠 클룩스 클랜스맨에게 동정적인 해석을 더했다.[79]
- 알라마123은 극우 음모 이론가 마이크 세르노비치의 전기에서 백인 집단학살에서 음모의 사상을 제거하기 위해 동정적으로 말을 바꾸어 음모론에서 실제 백인 집단학살로 전환했다.이것은 주요 신문에서 2차 소스 분석을 삭제하면서 1차 소스 트윗을 사용하여 수행되었다.
- 알라마123은 혐오 발언의 전기에서 음모를 제거하여 젬마 오도허티를 선동했다.
- 알라마123은 린치에 관한 기사에 또 다른 언급을 덧붙였는데, 이는 미국에서 흑인 남성들만이 린치를 당한 것이 아니라는 생각을 뒷받침하는 데 도움이 되었다.1910년에 인용된 출처는 두 명의 이탈리아인이 린치를 한 후 탬파에서 평화를 만족시켰다고 보고했다.
- 알라마123은 블랙 활동가 겸 래퍼 라즈 시몬의 전기에서 시몬을 군벌이라고 부르는 nationalfile.com 우익의 미친 소식통 하나를 추가했다.
- 알라마123은 블랙라이프 마테의 창립자 파트리스 컬러스의 전기에서 맥락이 없는 '마르크시스트'라는 꼬리표를 붙여 정치적 공격의 지렛대로 활용했다.마르크스주의는 세 가지 뜻을 가지고 있어 전기에서 매우 장황한 낱말이 된다.인용된 출처는 맥락에서 인용한 컬러스의 인용이며, 3개의 마르크스주의 의미 중 어떤 것이 작용하고 있는지를 결정하기 위해 컬러스의 정치적 입장을 분석한 제3자 관측자는 없다는 점에 주목한다.
백인우월주의 인종주의자들의 방어와 반 인종주의 흑인 운동가들에 대한 공격을 보여주는 이런 패턴으로 볼 때, 나는 알라마123이 미국 정치에서 금지된 토픽이 될 것을 제안한다.브링크스터넷 (대화) 03:46, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 마르크스주의라는 꼬리표는 전적으로 적절하다.그녀는 스스로 서술했고 그것은 평판이 좋은 출처로 출판되었다.하지만 나머지는 블록의 가치가 있다.내가 알아서 할게.--v/r - TP 04:03, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이것이 그렇게 설득력이 없다고 말해야 한다.Gemma O'Doherty 편집은 아마도 사실 정확할 것이다. 왜 당신이 그것을 되돌렸는지 모르겠다.라즈 시몬은 여전히 군벌의 물건을 가지고 있는데, 그들이 덧붙인 훌륭한 출처는 아니지만 내용상의 문제로 보인다.마지막으로 마르크스주의적인 것에 대해서는, 그들은 자기 정체성이 있다.만약 당신이 더 많은 문맥이 필요하다고 느낀다면 당신은 그것을 자유롭게 추가할 수 있지만 그것은 반대되는 것처럼 보이지 않는다.이 많은 것들이 내용상의 논쟁처럼 보이고 당신은 다른 편집자를 인종차별주의자라고 부른다.PackMecEng (대화) 04:10, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 농담하는 거야?Gemma O'Doherty는 음모 이론가의 바로 그 정의다.사실 그녀는 믿을 만한 매체에서 그런 정확한 말로 묘사되기도 하는데, 이것은 이례적이다.한편, 여기 COVID 난센스 5G COVID Anti-Vax에 대한 믿을만한 출처(또는 그녀 자신의 소셜 미디어)가 있고, 이것은 블로그지만 유명한 (그리고 재미있는) 드로잉 유니콘이 우리 아이들을 트랜스젠더로 만들고 있다!블랙 카이트 (토크) 09:54, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @검은 연:그들은 아마도 음모론자일 것이다. 그것은 문제가 아니다.문제는 그런 발언을 할 때 하나의 의견 기사가 출처였다는 점이다.나는 그들이 하나인지 아닌지 신경 쓰지 않을 수 없다.나는 우리가 그렇게 하기 위해 적절한 소싱과 BLP 정책을 따르도록 신경 쓴다.PackMecEng (대화) 17:26, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- @PackMecEng:그래, 하지만 위키피디아의 목소리로 진술하는 것은 아니었다.그것은, 아주 정확하게는, 우연히도 어떤 무작위 스태프가 아닌 아일랜드 생활에서 스캔들에 대해 쓴 유명한 작가인 그 기자가 마이클 클리포드(기자)를 본다는 것이어야 할 의견이었다.그리고 그녀의 음모 이론에 대한 다른 믿을 만한 출처가 이 글에 많이 있다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 18:57, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그런 다음 사용할 수 있다.현장에서 주목받은 사람의 단일한 의견 기사가 논쟁의 여지가 있는 라벨을 붙일 만큼 좋은 경우는 드물다.당신도 아시잖아요.만약 그들이 되돌아가서 당신이 제안하는 자료의 일부를 추가한다면, 그것은 괜찮을 겁니다.그것이 앉아 있기 때문에, 그것은 분명히 괜찮지 않다.PackMecEng (대화) 19:05, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
(비관리자 폐쇄)- 잭프로스트(대화) 05:14, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)--표시됨.아래 참조. --Jack Frost (대화) 06:14, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
나는 여기서 NAC에 동의하지 않는다.사용자가 블록에 이의를 제기하고 있는데, 여기(PackMecEng)의 편집자도 블록에 의문을 제기했다.나는 동의한다; 이것은 어떤것보다 WP:CryRACIST처럼 보인다.---- 선인장 잭 🌵 05:25, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 사용자는 2020년 2월에 경고를 받았고, 최근 다시 한번 토크 페이지당 AP2 주제 영역과 DS에 대해 경고를 받았다.오늘 편집 전쟁으로, 두 차례 오락가락한 끝에 편집 사상 처음으로 토크 페이지에 오른 것은 이 점에 대해 경고를 받았다는 점에서 다소 골치 아픈 일이다.CRYRACIST 측면은 걱정되지만 블록은 다른 요소를 고려하지 않고 좋다. --Masem (t) 05:32, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 일정 기간 편집 창을 열어두고 PackMecEng에 의한 후속 편집을 눈치채지 못한 것으로 보인다.이슈/토론이 해결되지 않을 수도 있다는 점을 감안, 폐막을 번복했다. --잭 프로스트 (토크) 06:04, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 내가 보기에 우리는 세 가지 접근법 중 하나로 갈 수 있을 것 같다: WP:LOP, 주제 금지, 또는 이것이 잠자는 사람 같아 보이기 때문에 차단.나에게 있어 선택은 명백한 인종차별적 편집이 있는가에 의해 좌우될 것이다.가이(도움말!) 09:33, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- #4가 WP당 편집이 잘 된 것 같다.RSOPINION과 #7은 자기식별에 따라 좋은 편집이었다(나는 그것이 어떤 지름길인지 잊어버린다).나머지는 소싱 정책(예: WP:BLPRS)을 충족하지 못하며 POV 문제가 있다.그러나 차단되기 전에 사용자와 이 문제가 어디서 논의됐는지, 또는 경고가 어디서 나왔는지 알 수 없다.저것들은 여기서 건너뛴 두 가지 중요한 단계인 것 같다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 18:22, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 38개의 편집으로 모든 인종차별주의자들의 계정을 저장하려고 하지 않을 것이다.계정을 등록하는 것은 저렴하고 하기 쉬우며 만약 우리가 그렇게 한다면 이 프로젝트는 인종 차별주의자들과 트롤들을 갱생시키기 위해 모든 에너지를 소비할 것이다.WP:DFT.--v/r - TP 19:26, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- 아무도 구하거나 재활하라고 하지 않아아마도 템플릿일 것이다. WP:AGF. 행정관이 이런 상황에 10번이나 직면했다고 가정해 보자.옵션 A: 관리 블록옵션 B: 먼저 관리 템플릿을 선택한 다음 다음 위반되는 편집(있는 경우)을 차단하십시오.그리고 행정관의 '굿'이 90%가 옳다고 치자, 그 10번 중 9번은 트롤이고, 10번 중 1번은 실수를 한 선의의 편집자라고 치자.옵션 A에 따라 우리는 선의의 편집자를 잃는다.옵션 B에서 우리는 9개의 나쁜 편집 비용을 지불하고 선의의 편집자를 얻는다.편집자 한 명을 데리고 일주일 중 아무 때나 9번의 편집 불량으로 갈 거야.이런 일이 10번도 아니고 100번도 일어나고, 행정관이 90%가 아니라 99%가 맞는다고 하자.99개의 나쁜 편집에 대해 좋은 편집자 한 명을 데려갈게.먼저 경고하는 것은 매우 싸고, 만약 우리가 완전히 새로운 선의의 편집자 전체를 몇 번의 나쁜 편집의 대가로 얻는다면 엄청난 배당금을 지불한다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 22:34, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나쁜 편집은 물론 비용이 든다. 누군가는 그것을 처리해야 한다.그리고 시간이 지남에 따라, 우리는 훌륭한 편집자들을 잃는다. 왜냐하면 그들은 많은 양의 절제되지 않은 편집, POV-pushing, 그리고 AN/I의 누군가가 자신들에게 아무런 대가 없이 관대하게 보이기를 원했기 때문에 제공되는 기회 n번째에 의해.Trolling/Bad 편집에 대한 높은 내성은 건설적인 기여자 기반의 시간과 영업권에 거의 또는 전혀 가치를 부여하지 않는 경우에만 저렴하다.이 특정한 편집자에게 무슨 일이 일어나야 하는지에 대한 언급은 없다; 나는 트롤에게 "로프"를 주는 것이 "치프"라는 프레임에 이의를 제기할 뿐이다.마스트셀Talk 22:51, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나는 어떤 기성 편집자가 경고와 차단 사이에 38개의 편집으로 이루어진 계정 편집 때문에 그 프로젝트에서 쫓겨난 적이 없다고 생각한다.기존 편집자들이 프로젝트에서 쫓겨날 때, 그것은 다른 기성 편집자들의 행동 때문이다.나는 이 편집자가 차단되기 전에 경고를 받았다면, 이 편집자가 다른 편집자를 쫓아냈을 위험은 0%라고 생각한다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 23:35, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 관리자가 된다면 그것은 그 프로젝트에 불행이 될 것이고, 만약 당신이 Arbcom에 접속한다면 그것은 재앙이 될 것이다.당신처럼 통찰력과 표현력은 자유롭고 자유롭게 돌아다녀야 한다.EENG 02:51, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나는 어떤 기성 편집자가 경고와 차단 사이에 38개의 편집으로 이루어진 계정 편집 때문에 그 프로젝트에서 쫓겨난 적이 없다고 생각한다.기존 편집자들이 프로젝트에서 쫓겨날 때, 그것은 다른 기성 편집자들의 행동 때문이다.나는 이 편집자가 차단되기 전에 경고를 받았다면, 이 편집자가 다른 편집자를 쫓아냈을 위험은 0%라고 생각한다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 23:35, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 나쁜 편집은 물론 비용이 든다. 누군가는 그것을 처리해야 한다.그리고 시간이 지남에 따라, 우리는 훌륭한 편집자들을 잃는다. 왜냐하면 그들은 많은 양의 절제되지 않은 편집, POV-pushing, 그리고 AN/I의 누군가가 자신들에게 아무런 대가 없이 관대하게 보이기를 원했기 때문에 제공되는 기회 n번째에 의해.Trolling/Bad 편집에 대한 높은 내성은 건설적인 기여자 기반의 시간과 영업권에 거의 또는 전혀 가치를 부여하지 않는 경우에만 저렴하다.이 특정한 편집자에게 무슨 일이 일어나야 하는지에 대한 언급은 없다; 나는 트롤에게 "로프"를 주는 것이 "치프"라는 프레임에 이의를 제기할 뿐이다.마스트셀Talk 22:51, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 아무도 구하거나 재활하라고 하지 않아아마도 템플릿일 것이다. WP:AGF. 행정관이 이런 상황에 10번이나 직면했다고 가정해 보자.옵션 A: 관리 블록옵션 B: 먼저 관리 템플릿을 선택한 다음 다음 위반되는 편집(있는 경우)을 차단하십시오.그리고 행정관의 '굿'이 90%가 옳다고 치자, 그 10번 중 9번은 트롤이고, 10번 중 1번은 실수를 한 선의의 편집자라고 치자.옵션 A에 따라 우리는 선의의 편집자를 잃는다.옵션 B에서 우리는 9개의 나쁜 편집 비용을 지불하고 선의의 편집자를 얻는다.편집자 한 명을 데리고 일주일 중 아무 때나 9번의 편집 불량으로 갈 거야.이런 일이 10번도 아니고 100번도 일어나고, 행정관이 90%가 아니라 99%가 맞는다고 하자.99개의 나쁜 편집에 대해 좋은 편집자 한 명을 데려갈게.먼저 경고하는 것은 매우 싸고, 만약 우리가 완전히 새로운 선의의 편집자 전체를 몇 번의 나쁜 편집의 대가로 얻는다면 엄청난 배당금을 지불한다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 22:34, 2020년 7월 1일 (UTC)[
- 그 노트에, 나는 석양 속으로 차를 몰고 가 우리를 묶는 보이지 않는 울타리를 통과하기를 희망한다.불협화음, 대학살, 코요테가 있을 수 있다.EENG, 이건 네 잘못이 아니야.내 말 들려?!레비, 오늘 밤 울지 마!마스트셀, 넌 괜찮아Alamma123, "백인 식별자"는 심지어 온라인에서도 내가 본 것 중 최악의 문구다.한 마디로, 인종차별주의자는 없었지만, 내가 본 것 중 최악이었어.네가 관리직을 선고받거나 아니면 내가 계속 운전해!불가침헐크 (토크) 07:03, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 내 잘못이 아니라는 말을 들으니 정말 기쁘지만 무슨 말인지 모르겠다.EEng 09:55, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 무급 집필 작업에서 자유를 찾는 기성 편집자로서, 나는 새로운 계정에서 한 번의 편집으로 인한 분노가 나의 미친 기차를 다른 쪽으로 몰고 갈 수 있는지 알아보려고 생각했다.하지만 리바이스가 옳았어, 아무것도 없었어, 0%.그래, 그는 우리 모두를 지배할 만큼 현명하지만, 그런 지루한 책임감을 가질 자격이 없어.대신 Alamma123을 관리자(administrator)로 만들고, 다른 사람이 그의 운명을 선택하게 할 수도 있다.관리자들은 RfAs에 대한 그들의 능력을 이미 보증한 관리자들 또는 사람들에게 정확하게 쿨한 것이 아니라 이 주변에서 문제를 결정하는 것에 대해 충분한 슬픔을 느낀다.그러나 이 곁가지로는 충분하다, 나는 인종 논쟁에 다시 한 번 발언권을 양보한다.불가침헐크 (대화) 05:56, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 내 잘못이 아니라는 말을 들으니 정말 기쁘지만 무슨 말인지 모르겠다.EEng 09:55, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그 노트에, 나는 석양 속으로 차를 몰고 가 우리를 묶는 보이지 않는 울타리를 통과하기를 희망한다.불협화음, 대학살, 코요테가 있을 수 있다.EENG, 이건 네 잘못이 아니야.내 말 들려?!레비, 오늘 밤 울지 마!마스트셀, 넌 괜찮아Alamma123, "백인 식별자"는 심지어 온라인에서도 내가 본 것 중 최악의 문구다.한 마디로, 인종차별주의자는 없었지만, 내가 본 것 중 최악이었어.네가 관리직을 선고받거나 아니면 내가 계속 운전해!불가침헐크 (토크) 07:03, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 나는 38개의 편집으로 모든 인종차별주의자들의 계정을 저장하려고 하지 않을 것이다.계정을 등록하는 것은 저렴하고 하기 쉬우며 만약 우리가 그렇게 한다면 이 프로젝트는 인종 차별주의자들과 트롤들을 갱생시키기 위해 모든 에너지를 소비할 것이다.WP:DFT.--v/r - TP 19:26, 2020년 7월 1일(UTC)[
- 마스트셀, 동의하지만 이게 트롤인지는 확실하지 않아, 꼭 그래야만 해.편집된 대부분의 것들은 아마도 강력한 소싱이 부족할지라도 괜찮게 보인다.가이(도움말!) 09:49, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
- 그 무늬는 분명히 보기 위해 거기에 있다.예 1번은 엉망진창의 시작이다."백인 동일시" 정말.그리고 GQ의 작가들은 집단적으로 활동가가 아니다.알람마123 편집의 대부분은 백인우월주의에 대한 비판을 누그러뜨리거나, 그 음모신앙을 옹호하거나, 백인우월주의에 반대하는 사람들에게 그늘을 드리려는 시도들이다.그래서 나는 나의 관찰을 이곳으로 가져오는 진지한 조치를 취한 것이다.브링크스터넷 (대화) 06:47, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 브링크스터넷, 웁, 그건 편집광이야.가이 (도움말!) 14:08, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 38개의 편집본을 모두 보았는데 "대부분"에 동의하지 않는다.몇몇은 나쁘고, 5-10 정도, 위에 열거된 것 중 최악인 것 같지만 나머지는 괜찮다.Look, if an article says that the article subject "is a Fooian", and I think that violates NPOV based on the sources, and I change it to "is considered by some to be a Fooian", then I am, in fact, "attempting to soften" the statement, but that doesn't mean that I am "upholding Fooianism" or "throwing shade on those who oppose Fooianism".그것은 단지 위키피디아의 "Fooian"을 지지하는 출처가 아니라고 생각한다는 것을 의미할 수도 있다.그것은 내가 푸이아니즘을 믿거나 푸이아니즘이 괜찮다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.백인 우월주의도 마찬가지야기사에서 백인 우월주의라는 비난을 ' 누그러뜨리는' 편집자가 반드시 백인 우월주의를 지지하거나 그것을 최소화하거나 그런 것을 하는 것은 아니다.NPOV는 백인우월주의자들에게도 적용된다.나는 여전히 #1이 나쁜 편집이었다고 생각한다, 나는 단지 그 편집을 한 편집자가 백인 우월주의나 그런 것을 지지하고 있다고는 생각하지 않는다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 15:20, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 비교 사례로,필딩 L. 라이트는 유명한 미국 인종차별주의자였다.그에 대한 우리의 기사는 WP에 따른 그의 인종차별적 견해를 다루지 않는다는 것을 아무도 알아차리기 전에 GA와 DYK를 거쳤다.기사의 주요 기고자는 그 자체로 불완전한 취재 범위를 제공하는 일련의 출처들을 처리하고 있었기 때문이다.이 문제는 제기, 논의, 더 많은 출처 제시, 편집, 문제 해결 등이 이루어졌다.어느 시점에서도 인종차별주의나 인종 차별이나 백인 우월주의를 지지한다고 비난한 사람은 아무도 없었고, 아무도 차단되거나 경고받지 않았으며, 인종차별주의자가 된 사람도 없었고, 편집자도 잃지 않았다. 그저 그런 결과가 나오지 않았다.꼭 올라올 필요는 없다.'나쁜 편집'을 하는 모든 사람이 나쁜 편집자일 필요는 없다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 15:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 인종 차별주의적인 트롤이나 어떤 맛의 트롤을 상대해야 한다면, 당신은 그들이 종종 우리가 그들에게 선의를 베푸라고 주장할 정도로 충분히 좋은 일을 한다는 것을 알 것이다.그만해.단지, 인종차별주의자들(또는 성차별주의자/트랜스포비아/호모포비아/등)의 실제 관심사를 감추려는 노력일 뿐이다.--v/r - TP 01:22, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)[
- @Levivich:Aaanndddd, 나는 알라마123일 확률이 95%일 가능성이 있는 새로운 계정으로부터 공포증을 통한 죽음의 위협을 방금 받았다.그 계정은 아마도 내가 그들보다 훨씬 더 많은 총을 소유하고 있고 우리 집에 경험 많은 총기 소유자가 있다는 것을 깨닫지 못할 것이다.--v/r - TP 13:20, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 살해 협박을 받아서 미안해내 주장은 확증 편견을 극복하지 못할 것이다.다음 번에는, 아마도 종달새로서, 다른 접근법이 다른 결과를 가져오는지 알아보세요.레비비치 14:29, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- @Levivich:Aaanndddd, 나는 알라마123일 확률이 95%일 가능성이 있는 새로운 계정으로부터 공포증을 통한 죽음의 위협을 방금 받았다.그 계정은 아마도 내가 그들보다 훨씬 더 많은 총을 소유하고 있고 우리 집에 경험 많은 총기 소유자가 있다는 것을 깨닫지 못할 것이다.--v/r - TP 13:20, 2020년 7월 4일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 인종 차별주의적인 트롤이나 어떤 맛의 트롤을 상대해야 한다면, 당신은 그들이 종종 우리가 그들에게 선의를 베푸라고 주장할 정도로 충분히 좋은 일을 한다는 것을 알 것이다.그만해.단지, 인종차별주의자들(또는 성차별주의자/트랜스포비아/호모포비아/등)의 실제 관심사를 감추려는 노력일 뿐이다.--v/r - TP 01:22, 2020년 7월 4일(UTC)[
- 비교 사례로,필딩 L. 라이트는 유명한 미국 인종차별주의자였다.그에 대한 우리의 기사는 WP에 따른 그의 인종차별적 견해를 다루지 않는다는 것을 아무도 알아차리기 전에 GA와 DYK를 거쳤다.기사의 주요 기고자는 그 자체로 불완전한 취재 범위를 제공하는 일련의 출처들을 처리하고 있었기 때문이다.이 문제는 제기, 논의, 더 많은 출처 제시, 편집, 문제 해결 등이 이루어졌다.어느 시점에서도 인종차별주의나 인종 차별이나 백인 우월주의를 지지한다고 비난한 사람은 아무도 없었고, 아무도 차단되거나 경고받지 않았으며, 인종차별주의자가 된 사람도 없었고, 편집자도 잃지 않았다. 그저 그런 결과가 나오지 않았다.꼭 올라올 필요는 없다.'나쁜 편집'을 하는 모든 사람이 나쁜 편집자일 필요는 없다.레비비치[dubious – discuss] 15:59, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그 무늬는 분명히 보기 위해 거기에 있다.예 1번은 엉망진창의 시작이다."백인 동일시" 정말.그리고 GQ의 작가들은 집단적으로 활동가가 아니다.알람마123 편집의 대부분은 백인우월주의에 대한 비판을 누그러뜨리거나, 그 음모신앙을 옹호하거나, 백인우월주의에 반대하는 사람들에게 그늘을 드리려는 시도들이다.그래서 나는 나의 관찰을 이곳으로 가져오는 진지한 조치를 취한 것이다.브링크스터넷 (대화) 06:47, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 마스트셀, 동의하지만 이게 트롤인지는 확실하지 않아, 꼭 그래야만 해.편집된 대부분의 것들은 아마도 강력한 소싱이 부족할지라도 괜찮게 보인다.가이(도움말!) 09:49, 2020년 7월 2일 (UTC)[
비유를 들자면 레스터 매독스는 1966년 조지아 주지사로 선출되기 전 애틀랜타에서 고객으로 들어온 블랙을 물리치기 위해 도끼 손잡이를 파는 분리형 식당을 운영했다.주지사로서 매독스는 이사회 초안 작성에 비례하여 블랙 회원들
을 임명하고 조지아 주 순찰대를 통합했다.그러나 균형을 잡아서 도끼 손잡이는 그의 이데올로기를 특징으로 삼았다.
위키피디아를 편집할 때 우리는 서로를 거의 알지 못하며, 기사나 대화 페이지의 편집에 근거해서만 판단할 수 있다.WP:AGF는 양방향으로 절단한다!액면가로 취해진 allama123의 편집은 내가 비관리자로서 TP의 블록에 동의하도록 이끈다.— 네오란지 (필) 02:15, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[하라
베세84년
비세84는 '도널드 트럼프 대통령 행정부'를 네오파시스트로 등재하며 이같이 편집했다.나는 이것을 중립적이지 않은 것으로 되돌렸다.베세84는 다음과 같은 글을 올렸다. [80][81], "이 문제를 좀 더 확대했으면 좋겠다.나는 이 대화의 모든 부분을 기록하고 있으며, 만약..."하지 않으면 주요 언론에 그것을 공개할 것이다.이번 언론 공개는 내 급여 등급에서 한참 벗어나서 다른 사람에게 부탁해.--Mvqr (대화) 12:46, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 왜 그의 포스트가 WP인지 설명하기 위해 그의 토크 페이지에 대답했다.OR 그리고 그에게 그런 태도를 위협하지 말라고 부탁했다.바라건대 그가 그것을 타고 가길 바란다.— Czello 12:52, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
사용자:2603:6000:8D40:77F:BD12:50AD:7448:D01
익명의 사용자가 위스콘신 차량 등록판에 설명되지 않고 비파괴적인 편집을 반복하는 경우:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Wisconsin&type=revision&diff=965985360&oldid=965980919
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Wisconsin&type=revision&diff=966014547&oldid=966011122
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Wisconsin&type=revision&diff=966036430&oldid=966022389
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Wisconsin&type=revision&diff=966038048&oldid=966036673
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Wisconsin&type=revision&diff=966038762&oldid=966038141
또한 로마 숫자와 20세기 스튜디오의 대화 페이지에 비파괴적인 횡설수설도 게재했다.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Roman_numerals&diff=965989081&oldid=963318173
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:20th_Century_Studios&diff=prev&oldid=965990616
세 명의 다른 사용자(나 자신이 포함)로부터 받은 세 개의 경고는 분명히 아무런 영향을 받지 않았다.
이 개인의 심리 상태에 대해 언급하는 것은 내가 할 일이 아니다.하지만, 나는 위키피디아가 장난감처럼 취급되어서는 안 된다고 확신한다.클론다이케53226 (대화) 22:00 (UTC) 2020년 7월 4일 (화)[
- 클론다이케53226, WP일 가능성이 높다.여기서 CIR 이슈는, 비록 잠시 중단되었던 것 같지만.계속 주시할 수 있는 무언가가 있을지도 몰라.에드6767톡! 00:12, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 음, 24시간 넘게 편집이 안 됐지 지정된 주소나 범위 내 다른 주소에서 말이야하지만 위스콘신 주의 차량 등록판은 내 감시 목록에 있으니 계속 지켜볼 것이다.고마워, 에드 6767클론다이케53226 (대화) 01:10, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
유료 편집기
나는 안드로루쿠스 편집장이 베이징 영화 아카데미와 중앙 연극 아카데미와 같은 학교들의 페이지에 지속적으로 레드 링크 페이지를 덧붙이기 때문에 다양한 중국 영화 학교를 홍보하기 위해 돈을 받은 것이 아닌가 의심한다. 24.232.123.19 (토크) 07:05, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 또한 BFA의 "알림할 수 없는" 동창생 명단에 38명 (38명)의 불성실한 사람들이 있는데, 그 중 누구라도 개인적으로 발기인의 수수료를 지불할 수 있었을 것이다, 그렇지 않은가?그리고 CAD는 49 (!!!) 입니다.왜 학교는 87명의 상대적인 노비들을 가진 유명한 학생들을 물타기하려 하는가?불가침헐크 (대화) 09:58, 2020년 7월 3일 (UTC)[
- 안드롤루쿠스, BFA 기사를 뚜렷한 이유 없이 마헤(배우)와 같은 사람들로 계속 어수선하게 만들고 있다.여기서 설명해 주시죠.아니면 그냥 멈춰.불가침헐크 (토크) 02:40, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
카미2018년 반달리즘
User Kami2018 [[82]는 그의 편집에 대해 신뢰할 수 있고 검증 가능한 출처/참고 자료를 삽입하지 않고 파슈툰과 아프간 페이지에 정보를 삭제하거나 추가하는 작업에 다시 착수했다.예를 들어, 그는 아무 이유 없이 Kharoti에서 정보를 삭제하거나 변경에 대한 참조를 추가했다. [83]마찬가지로, 그는 발라 히사르라는 기사를 [84]로 편집했다.그는 '아프간'이라는 단어를 삭제했는데, 같은 편집자가 기사로부터 '아프간' 단어를 삭제하거나 아프가니스탄이나 아프간과 관련된 기사의 내용을 다른 곳에 넣어 '아프간'이라는 단어를 생략한 경우, 이 사용자가 반복적으로 되돌아온다는 점에 유의하기 바란다.그러나 여기서 파키스탄-펀자비 민족주의 추진 의제의 또 다른 예에서 그는 기사에서 '파슈툰화'라는 단어를 삭제할 수 있도록 정보와 첨부된 출처/참고를 생략했다.이 편집은 델리 술탄국(Delhi Sultaate) 페이지를 오랫동안 편집해 온 다른 사용자에 의해 [86]으로 되돌아갔다.그러나 카미2018은 다시 첨부된 참조/소스를 제거하여 같은 정보를 삽입했다.자세한 내용은 페이지 기록을 참조하십시오.그는 다른 기사에도 같은 행동을 했고, 파슈툰 페이지를 편집한 것에 대해 거듭 경고를 받았다.나는 이 특정한 개인에 대해 조치가 취해지기를 기대한다.이 사용자가 다른 사용자로부터 동의서가 온 후 삽입되었던 '파쉬툰화'라는 단어를 기사에서 삭제한 예는 다음과 같다.
나는 이 사용자가 파슈툰스 및 아프간스 관련 기사 편집에 일정 기간 금지할 것을 강력히 권고한다.101.50.92.206 (대화) 13:24, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
사용자 메가히즈
| 블랙 카이트가 편집장을 추행했다고 보도되었다.GeneralNotability (대화) 13:34, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
메가히즈 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
위키피디아에는 처음 있는 일이기 때문에 여기서 토론이 필요한지 아닌지 완전히 확신할 수는 없지만, 앞서 언급한 사용자 메가히즈는 스타일에 관한 매뉴얼을 위반할 가능성이 있는 단일/이중 단어 철자를 숫자로 바꾸기 위해 야구 관련 기사들을 수 많은 편집 작업을 해왔다.메가히즈는 과거에 이것에 대해 경고를 받은 적이 있는데, 그 편집이 너무 많기 때문에(그 편집은 주당 수백에 달한다), 나는 몇 가지 예를 덧붙일 수 있을 뿐이다.
메가히즈는 또한 야구 관련 페이지에 많은 길이로 변환된 단위를 추가해왔지만, 이것은 아마도 위반이 아닐 것이다.
이게 위반이 아니라면 시간을 낭비해서 미안해.Klohinxtalk 06:39, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 지금 몇 달째 계속되고 있다.사용자의 토크 페이지를 보면, 이 [95][96]에 대한 특정 경고가 표시되고 사용자는 경고까지 인정하지만 [97]은 계속 유지된다.(MOS에 대한 참조를 포함하여 올바른 행동 방침이 지적된 경우) 이것이 용인할 수 없는 행동이라는 이 편집자의 주의를 끌기 위한 블록이 필요한 시점이라고 생각한다. - Nick Thornetalk 07:00, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 몇 달?보아하니 몇 년 됐군.토크 페이지를 보면 최소한 8번(다른 MOSNUM이나 이와 유사한 이슈는 말할 것도 없고) MOSNUM 문제에 대해 경고를 받았고, 그들은 그저 계속 하고 있을 뿐이다.나는 그들이 경고에 대해 "천만에요"라고 답한 다음 경고가 하지 말라고 한 것을 그대로 이어나갈 때 여기에 CIR 문제가 있을 수 있다고 생각한다.그 결과 나는 그들이 그 문제를 논의할 때까지 그들을 무기한 차단했다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 10:27, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
182.186.108.113
182.186.108.113(대화 · 기여 · 삭제 · 필터 로그 · SUL · Google) • (블록 · 소프트 · 프로모 · 원인 ·봇 · 하드 · 스팸 · 반달) WP:NOTTTEM의 행동 ([98])은 마피아에 속한 다른 사람들을 고발하는 것을 포함한다.TPA를 해지하십시오.빅터 슈미트 (대화) 15:48, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- @빅터 슈미트:실수로 잘못된 디퓨즈를 게시했을 수도 있지만, 게시된 디퓨즈는 전혀 관련이 없는 사용자와 다르기 때문에 불만 사항을 지원하지 않는다.그러나 그런 말을 했으니 어차피 블록 해머가 떨어진 것 같다 86.146.209.237 (대화) 16:40, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 에 대해 모른다니까.나는 사용자 토크 페이지에서 위키피디아의 마피아와 비유적인 비교를 보았다.블록 후 교란으로 기각. --Deepfriedokra (대화) 16:46, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
WP를 명백히 위반하여 Jesselin Radack을 편집하는 휘파람블로그:BLPCOI, 또한 EDITWARNING
| 제시린 라닥의 변명이 막혔어{{3125A토크}}13:57, 2020년 7월 6일(UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
WP:SPA Whistblogger는 WP를 명백히 위반하여 Jesselyn Radack을 편집하고 있다.BLPCOI.
편집자는 앞서 6월 9일 제시린 라닥의 소재로 자신을 지목했다.이러한 내용은 2020년 6월 9일부터 편집한 내용을 참고하여 작성되었다.
편집자는 Jesselin Radack에 자료를 추가했는데, 만약 이것이 실제로 Jesselin Radack이라면 WP를 위반하는 것이다.BLPCOI는 위의 편집에서 다음과 같이 편집한다.
편집된 내용은 법정에서 진짜 제시린 라닥을 악의적인 기소와 명예훼손 혐의로 고소하고 있는 사람을 형사 고소한다.그녀의 것이든 아니든 간에, 이러한 편집은 WP:BLP 위반.
편집자 휘파람블로그도 여러 차례 역전을 당한 뒤 편집전을 벌이고 있다.편집경고 발생 위치:
시국에 대한 관심이 필요하다.
NEWFineyoungcannibalsNOW (토크) 19:12, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 기여 목록을 참조하십시오.정상 운영 (대화) 19:18, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- NEWFineyoungcannibals지금, 그녀는 어느 편집자를 고발하고 있는가?정상 운영 (대화) 19:34, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 휘파람블로그는 2018년 피츠기브본 전체 토론을 시작한 현재 차단된 사용자 칼홀만(토크·기여)을 지칭한 것일 수 있다.Trevor Scott FitzGibbon에 대한 기사도 삭제되었다(Wikipedia:삭제 조항/Trevor Scott FitzGibbon).나는 이 피소된 편집 전쟁 상황이 OP가 만들어 내는 것보다 조금 더 복잡하다고 생각한다.CheckUser가 순서대로 있나?정상 운영 (대화) 20:19, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 NEWFineyoungcannibals를 믿는다.NOW는 휘파람블로그가 "이 섹션"의 저자를 비난하는 그녀의 두 편집 요약에서 나에게 암시하고 있다고 추론하는 것이 옳다.문제가 된 부분은 피츠기브본 형사사건과 민사사건이다.MediaWiki의 분석 도구 Who Writting That?는 정확한 측정 기준을 제공하지 않지만, 내가 그 부분의 대부분을 기여했음을 나타낸다: 134개의 총 단어 중 100개(수치 75%).이에 따라, 내가 Trevor FitzGibbon이 아니며 Jesselin Radack, Trevor FitzGibbon 또는 그들의 알려진 동료들과 온라인이나 오프라인으로 교류한 적이 없다는 것을 기록으로 진술하게 해줘.그리고 나는 연쇄 포식자가 아니며 성폭행으로 경찰에 신고된 적도 없기 때문에, 나는 행정관이 즉시 WP를 연습할 것을 요청한다.REVDEL은 그 추악한 비난들을 제시린 라닥의 편집 역사에서 삭제하기 위해서입니다.네드파우사 (대화) 21:09, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- REVDEL 사용자는 편집 요약 텍스트만 수정할 수 있지만 편집은 그대로 두십시오.그렇지 않으면 향후 행동에 대한 평가는 불가능할 것이다.불행히도, 편집 요약을 REVDEL하면 휘파람블로그의 OUTING도 제거될 것이다.나는 REVDEL이 일어나기 전에 휘파람블로그를 COId/차단해야 한다고 생각한다(증거가 변질될 것을 예상한다).정상 운영 (대화) 21:35, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- RevisionDelete는 편집 요약 수정만 허용하여 편집 자체를 공개 위키에서 볼 수 있게 한다.관리자는 수정되지 않은 요약을 여전히 검토할 수 있다.인터넷상의 어떤 것도 진정으로 사라지지 않는다.하지만 적어도 휘파람블로그의 범죄혐의는 대중의 시각에서 제거될 수 있다.네드파우사 (대화) 21:50, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- REVDEL 사용자는 편집 요약 텍스트만 수정할 수 있지만 편집은 그대로 두십시오.그렇지 않으면 향후 행동에 대한 평가는 불가능할 것이다.불행히도, 편집 요약을 REVDEL하면 휘파람블로그의 OUTING도 제거될 것이다.나는 REVDEL이 일어나기 전에 휘파람블로그를 COId/차단해야 한다고 생각한다(증거가 변질될 것을 예상한다).정상 운영 (대화) 21:35, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 NEWFineyoungcannibals를 믿는다.NOW는 휘파람블로그가 "이 섹션"의 저자를 비난하는 그녀의 두 편집 요약에서 나에게 암시하고 있다고 추론하는 것이 옳다.문제가 된 부분은 피츠기브본 형사사건과 민사사건이다.MediaWiki의 분석 도구 Who Writting That?는 정확한 측정 기준을 제공하지 않지만, 내가 그 부분의 대부분을 기여했음을 나타낸다: 134개의 총 단어 중 100개(수치 75%).이에 따라, 내가 Trevor FitzGibbon이 아니며 Jesselin Radack, Trevor FitzGibbon 또는 그들의 알려진 동료들과 온라인이나 오프라인으로 교류한 적이 없다는 것을 기록으로 진술하게 해줘.그리고 나는 연쇄 포식자가 아니며 성폭행으로 경찰에 신고된 적도 없기 때문에, 나는 행정관이 즉시 WP를 연습할 것을 요청한다.REVDEL은 그 추악한 비난들을 제시린 라닥의 편집 역사에서 삭제하기 위해서입니다.네드파우사 (대화) 21:09, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 야, 정말 엉망진창이야.나는 방금 그 페이지의 다른 편집자를 위해 또 다른 ANI를 읽었다.그가 피츠그 사건과 라닥에 대해 한 말이 절반이라도 사실이라면, 그녀는 자신의 기사를 편집할 필요가 없다.하지만 내가 우려하는 또 다른 문제는 이 ANI의 OP가 새로운 사용자에게는 꽤 경험이 많은 것 같다는 것이다.그는 편집 전쟁, 사용자 토크 페이지, ANI, 게시 디프, COI, BLP에 대해 알고 있는 것 같다.제시린 라닥 기사 말고는 편집이 안 돼양말(더 오래된 차단/금지된 계정 중 하나를 다시 수정)?정상 운영 (대화) 20:51, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @정상 Op:위키백과:신참들이 항상 무뚝뚝한 것은 아니다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 22:25, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @Psiĥedelisto:인용문이 제대로 포맷된 고급 콘텐츠 편집과는 천양지차인데...위키백과로:위키와이어링(비존재적 감각 사용)그리고 이 편집자는 적어도 두 명의 이전 편집자가 차단된 채, 논란의 깊은 곳에 뛰어들었기 때문에, 조사해 볼 가치가 있다.정상 Op (대화) 22:40, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- @정상 Op:위키백과:신참들이 항상 무뚝뚝한 것은 아니다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 22:25, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 야, 정말 엉망진창이야.나는 방금 그 페이지의 다른 편집자를 위해 또 다른 ANI를 읽었다.그가 피츠그 사건과 라닥에 대해 한 말이 절반이라도 사실이라면, 그녀는 자신의 기사를 편집할 필요가 없다.하지만 내가 우려하는 또 다른 문제는 이 ANI의 OP가 새로운 사용자에게는 꽤 경험이 많은 것 같다는 것이다.그는 편집 전쟁, 사용자 토크 페이지, ANI, 게시 디프, COI, BLP에 대해 알고 있는 것 같다.제시린 라닥 기사 말고는 편집이 안 돼양말(더 오래된 차단/금지된 계정 중 하나를 다시 수정)?정상 운영 (대화) 20:51, 2020년 7월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 RD2에 따라 편집 요약을 다시 작성했으며, 답변되지 않은 autobio 문제와 BLP 문제로 인해 문제의 페이지에서 Whist Blogger를 부분적으로 차단했다.GeneralNotability (대화) 03:20, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 WP일 수 있다.DOLT 케이스.COI 편집자의 편집에 대해서는 잘 모르겠지만, WP를 위반하여 법정 문서에 크게 의존하는 것 같아 우려되는 부분은 큰 문제가 있는 것 같다.블프리머리.닐 아인(토크) 06:28, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
Normal Op의 WP에 관하여:부메랑의 방어막 뉴파이낸스캐니발스지금
| 행정적인 조치가 필요하지 않다; 논의 이상 이 줄기는 이미 닫혀 있다.Sockpuppeting을 하고 있는 사용자들이 차단되어야 하는지 말아야 하는지에 대해 논쟁을 벌일 필요는 없다.대화) 23:10, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[] |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
@Normal Op 및 NedFausa:나는 어떤 이유에서인지 후세를 위해 이 소란을 연결시켜야만 한다고 느낀다.특수:PermaLink/966366704 § 사용자 대화:NEWFineyoungcannibals이제 § Sockblock이 적어도 이 나사산의 보관소에 착륙하도록 하고, WP의 Ponyo를 ping:내가 하는 동안 사용자를 확인하십시오.나는 이것으로부터 아무런 이득도 얻을 수 없다는 것을 알고 있다; 나는 그것이 불필요하게 "적들을 만들고" "싸움을 하는" 것으로 보일 수 있다는 것을 알고 있지만, 그것은 내 의도가 아니라, 나는 단지 이 CU 요청이 불필요하다고 느낄 뿐이고, 나는 다른 곳이 없다면 보관소에 내 목소리를 가지고 싶다.나도 겁쟁이로 비쳐지고 싶지 않아, 네드의 토크 페이지에만 글을 쓰고 여기선 안 돼.레흐츠스트레이티게이튼이 한 어떤 것이든 이것을 보증했다는 것을 나는 알지 못한다. 그리고 나는 포뇨가 단순히 CU를 운영하지 않고 NEWFineyoungcannibals를 기다리는 것을 선택할 수 있었다고 생각한다.이제 그들이 이 심각한 WP를 밝혀냄으로써 이 프로젝트를 위해 한 놀라운 서비스를 감안할 때, 이 프로젝트를 더욱 혼란스럽게 만들었다.BLPCOI 위반.유감스럽게도 우리는 잘못된 것들에 대해 처벌하고 있다.내가 할 말은 그게 다고 WP는 이제 이렇게 말할 것이다.그것을 노련한 자에게 맡겨서 해결하되, 나는 불성실하지 않은 나의 반대의 목소리를 내지 않고는 잠을 잘 수 없다.Psiĥedelisto (대화 • 기여) 18:45, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
긴급 블록 필요
| 나는 블록이 필요하다고 생각하지 않으며, 이것은 적절한 장소에서 논의된 것으로 보인다.GeneralNotability (대화) 23:16, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
콰미카가미가 직선으로 된 아포스트로피를 컬로 교체하고 페이지를 많이 옮기는 것 같다.나는 블록이 시급하다고 생각한다.(대화) 17:04, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
아이러니하게도 며칠 전 나는 제목에 아포스트로피가 곱슬곱슬한 모든 WP 기사들의 목록을 요청했고, 그것들을 직선 아포스트로 옮기고 있다.천 명이 넘는 사람들이 있었는데, 이는 아무도 이 일을 한동안 치우지 않았음을 시사한다.— kwami (대화) 22:30, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
시작 또는 괴롭힘/스토킹 행위
| 스토킹이나 괴롭힘은 일어나지 않았다.행정 조치는 필요 없다.이 실을 닫는 것은 아무 소용이 없기 때문이다.대화) 23:20, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[] |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 알렉스브렌은 괴롭힘/스토킹 행동의 초기 단계에 있는 것처럼 보인다.위키백과에서 나를 따라다니며 무분별하게 편집을 되돌리는 것 같다.https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Apitherapy&action=history 및 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Open_access&action=history을 참조하십시오.
사용자가 사이트 주변에서 당신의 움직임을 추적하고 있을 때 소름끼치는 느낌이다.
이 편집자에 대해 어떻게 좀 해 주시오.— Noloader가 추가한 선행 미서명 논평 (대화 • 기여) --Deepfriedokra (대화) 19:34, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Noloader: 당신을 괴롭히는 회상에 대해 디프피를 제공하십시오.내가 볼 수 있는 것은 알렉스브렌이 아피테라피에서 당신의 편집 내용을 되돌린 편집자 중 한 명이고, 오픈 액세스에서 당신의 편집 내용 중 하나를 되돌린 것이었는데, 몇 분 후에 첫 번째 되돌리기가 실수였다는 것을 나타내는 편집 요약본을 가지고 당신의 버전으로 다시 되돌린 것뿐이라는 것이다. --보네다 기고 토크 19:51, 2020년 7월 6일 ()
- 보나데아 - 아피테라피는 확실히 의견 불일치였다.나는 그것이 모든 것의 끝이라고 생각했다.
- 나는 알렉스브렌이 오픈 액세스 기사에 도착하는 것이 무작위라고 생각하지 않는다.나는 사용자 알렉스브렌의 욕망의 대상인 것 같고, 그는 지금 사이트를 따라다니고 있다.이것은 알렉스브렌의 매우 소름끼치는 행동이다.
- 그것은 즉시 그 문제로 이어져야 한다...왜 알렉스브렌이 지금 나를 따라다니며 유효한 편집을 되돌리는 거지?여기 편집이 있다(어피테라피 기사 이후 편집이 한 번밖에 없다): https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Open_access&type=revision&diff=966291239&oldid=966255601. (내가 삭제한 인용문은 사본/논문이 상하는 것처럼 중복되고 잘못된 형태였다.)
- 또한 아래의 알렉스브렌의 반응에 주목하라.차라리 자신의 행동에 책임을 지고, 자신이 괴롭히거나 스토킹하는 사람을 탓하고 싶은 모양이다.마치 내가 그/그녀가 내 프로필을 방문하고, 내 최근 편집한 내용을 클릭하고, 되돌리기를 클릭하는 것에 대한 책임이 있는 것처럼 말이다.
- 내가 말했듯이, 이것은 알렉스브렌의 매우 소름끼치는 행동이다.
- 제프리 월튼 (대화) 20:28, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 노로더, 아마 그게 잘못 눌렀나 봐. 잘못 눌렀나 봐.신의를 지키다.El_C 20:35, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- El_C - 미안해, 실수였다고 생각하지 않아.그것들은 사용자 알렉스브렌의 의도적인 행동이었다.실수하기 위해 사용자 알렉스브렌은 적어도 세 번을 클릭해야 했다 - 한번은 내 프로필에, 한번은 내 기록에, 그리고 한번은 편집을 되돌리기 위해서.611만4482개의 영어 페이지가 있는 경우, Open Access 페이지에 무작위로 착륙하는 것은 600만개의 이벤트 중 1개가 될 것이다.
- 제프리 월튼 (대화) 20:48, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 뭐?만약 그들이 원한다면 그들은 당신의 기여를 검토할 수 있다.그들이 그 과정에서 실수를 해도 화를 내서는 안 된다.El_C 20:50, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- El_C - 나는 누구든지 편집을 할 수 있다는 것에 전적으로 동의한다.이후 편집은 이 사이트에서 항상 일어난다.이것의 이상한 점은 다음 편집자의 임의 편집도 아니고 개선도 아니었다는 것이다.사용자 알렉스브렌은 나를 괴롭히거나 스토킹하고 유효한 편집 내용을 되돌려서 이전의 망가짐으로 되돌리고 있는 것 같다.그건 적어도 네가 걱정해야 할 일이야.사용자 알렉스브렌이 나를 괴롭히거나 스토킹할 의사가 있다면 다른 사람들에게 할 것이다; 그의 편집은 사이트를 개선시키지 않고 있다. 그들은 사이트를 축소시키고 있다.
- 20:59, 2020년 7월 6일(UTC)
- 그래서 뭐?만약 그들이 원한다면 그들은 당신의 기여를 검토할 수 있다.그들이 그 과정에서 실수를 해도 화를 내서는 안 된다.El_C 20:50, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 노로더, 아마 그게 잘못 눌렀나 봐. 잘못 눌렀나 봐.신의를 지키다.El_C 20:35, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 제프리 월튼 (대화) 20:28, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- @놀로더:당신이 그곳에 도착하기 전에 몇 년 동안 기사를 계속 편집해 왔는데, 나는 정말로 당신이 아파테라피에 "팔로우"하고 있을 수 없었다.어제 오픈액세스에서 편집한 내용에 대해서는 실수(다이프 잘못 읽어서)였고, 몇 분 후에 되돌아왔다.나는 이것이 AN3[99]에서 당신이 잘못된 형식의 보고서를 작성한 후 관리 위원회에 제출한 당신의 두 번째 최근 보고서라는 것을 주목해야 한다. 그리고 당신은 내 토크 페이지에서 나의 행동이 "스토킹"하고 "매우 소름끼친다"고 말했다.[100] 그래서, 나는 '그렇다'고 생각하기 시작했는데, 여기 문제가 있을지도 모른다는 생각이 들기 시작했으며, 라고 생각하기 시작했다.WP:허황된 사람이 되어서는 안 될 만큼 오래 여기 계셨군요.알렉스브렌 (대화) 20:03, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- 노로더, 너의 증거는 불충분해, 그리고 지금은, 질식구 역할을 하고 있어.너는 반드시 패턴을 보여야 하고 그것이 말이 된다는 것을 보여야 한다.네 보고도 지금은 안 돼.El_C 20:13, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- FWIW, 이거 그냥 두고 갈게.Editor Interaction Analyzer Noloader 편집기: 2138 & Alexbrn 편집기: 41581. (누가 누구를 팔로우하고 있는가?아니면 누구인가?) --Deepfriedokra (대화) 20:20, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- 토크 페이지, 사용자 토크 페이지, 게시판을 포함한 요약하자면 공통적으로 20페이지가 있다.이 13개 중 알렉스브렌이 먼저 편집했다. --딥프리도크라 (토크) 20:25, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- 그래서 내가 보는 것은 6시간 간격으로 한 기사다.편집하고 되돌리기? --Deepfriedokra (대화) 20:53, 2020년 7월 6일 (UTC)[
- Deepfriedokra - If all you see is an edit and revert, then I believe you are missing the bi picture. If you are not seeing the big picture, then maybe you should escalate the issue to Wikipeida administrators or employees. I'm guessing folks with professional training will have a better understanding of the issues at hand.
- Jeffrey Walton (talk) 21:34, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- There are more eyes on you now than if you hadn't made this report. I am not seeing anything actionable here - if this is stalking/harassment, then I should hand back the keys to my account because I routinely click through to Users' contributions if one of their edits seem a bit suspect. I would withdraw this and carry on as if nothing happened. -- a they/them argue contribs 21:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks Alfie. I think I'll let the request stand because the behavior was obvious and egregious. It is not appropriate behavior to stalk another editor, revert edits out of spite, and put an article into a [formerly] broken state. If you are engaging in the behavior then I think you should rethink your position.
- Jeffrey Walton (talk) 22:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
Insistence against declared RM consensus and other tendentious editing
- Velayinosu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User:Velayinosu has been active on Wikipedia for less than three months, but has already collected about 10 comments on their User talk page regarding unhelpful and obnoxiously non-collaborative behaviour (together with some accolades). After an RM was closed in which the user had participated and was not fond of the outcome, they have moved the article back to its previous name twice, including after a User talk page comment about that not being appropriate, and without opening a WP:Move review as was suggested to them. The article in question is now again at their preferred title, Severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus, despite an RM consensus declaration two weeks ago that came out differently. The user has also exhibited a remarkably sophisticated level of knowledge of how to edit Wikipedia for someone who has been around only briefly. Although this person also seems to have done a lot of helpful editing and has been extremely active, I suggest a brief block to get their attention and let them know that they need to learn to play nice with others. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:14, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- BarrelProof's complaint to Velayinosu about their unorthodox move was posted at User talk:Velayinosu#Your article title move contrary to a declared consensus. EdJohnston (talk) 02:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree that anything that I have done warrants being blocked from editing. Organisms that have hyphens and dashes in their name is not addressed by WP:MOS and it has become standard on virus articles to use the hyphen for scientific names of viruses since that is what the ICTV does. My proposal is to keep the article in line with the hyphen standard until the MOS is edited to clarify how this situation should be addressed since the move to the dash is itself disruptive at this point in time. (If that is wrong, then fine, but the MOS issue remains.) I've started a section on the MOS talk page for this and it would be beneficial if others could participate in it (a related discussion is also being held at Talk:Middle East respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus). Velayinosu (talk) 03:47, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- The RM was open for two weeks, and Velayinosu's was the sole expression of opposition (on an article that was getting about a thousand views per day). Based on that, it seems hard to say the RM discussion "was closed improperly/prematurely/etc.", as they alleged on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Opening a discussion at WT:MOS is fine, of course, but they should not insist that their preferred outcome must prevail while others consider their proposal to change the MoS to support their point of view. And this is not the only action by this editor that has generated complaint. As I said, their User talk page shows about 10 complaints in a 3-month period of activity in this account which shows a very high amount of expertise and activity for a new user. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:57, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I edited the MOS comment to address your concerns. And those warnings on my talk page were for minor things that were all resolved without further issue which I hope is the ultimate result of this discussion. If the problem is the overturning of the move discussion result, then I won't do that from now on, but the MOS issue should be addressed and it would be beneficial if uninvolved people participate in the discussion as well. Velayinosu (talk) 05:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please do not change what your comments say after someone else has already responded to them, especially if it is to remove statements that have been quoted or commented on specifically in someone else's remarks. That confuses the historical record and makes it impossible to understand the comments that others have made in response. I have reverted your change to what you said at WT:MOS. It is better to add further clarifying remarks as separate new comments, or to apply strikethrough formatting to the original comments and add a note to explain why some remarks have been struck. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have reviewed the 9 other complaints on the User talk page, and none of them seem to have turned into protracted disputes. However, a common theme was not providing sufficient WP:edit summary information to explain what the editor is doing. As Velayinosu has already said they will respect RM results, I think this matter can be closed if they will also pledge to try harder to provide adequate edit summaries in the future. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I'll try to be more informative with edit summaries. Velayinosu (talk) 00:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I edited the MOS comment to address your concerns. And those warnings on my talk page were for minor things that were all resolved without further issue which I hope is the ultimate result of this discussion. If the problem is the overturning of the move discussion result, then I won't do that from now on, but the MOS issue should be addressed and it would be beneficial if uninvolved people participate in the discussion as well. Velayinosu (talk) 05:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- The RM was open for two weeks, and Velayinosu's was the sole expression of opposition (on an article that was getting about a thousand views per day). Based on that, it seems hard to say the RM discussion "was closed improperly/prematurely/etc.", as they alleged on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Opening a discussion at WT:MOS is fine, of course, but they should not insist that their preferred outcome must prevail while others consider their proposal to change the MoS to support their point of view. And this is not the only action by this editor that has generated complaint. As I said, their User talk page shows about 10 complaints in a 3-month period of activity in this account which shows a very high amount of expertise and activity for a new user. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:57, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Vikasb2003 & Disruptive editing on BLP article
| BLOCKED | |
| for a period of 2 weeks for WP:NPA, WP:DE by El C (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 05:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Vikasb2003 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
The user has been trying to edit the page of Ramanan Laxminarayan which is a biography of a living person. The section they intend to insert includes original research cited to a tweet (note, even the tweet does not support their addition in full). On being provided warning templates and links to the relevant policies, their response has been to indulge in personal attacks and revert back their edits.
- Special:Diff/965057155 - First addition. I posted a level 3 warning template (Special:Diff/965759027) seeing as they had a history of similar warnings.
- Special:Diff/965710495 - Revertion to the same. I posted a level 4 warning template (Special:Diff/965709485) with an added note on relevant policies.
- Special:Diff/965901140 - Their response to the warning template filled with personal attacks.
- Special:Diff/965909767 - Revertion to the same.
Tayi Arajakate Talk 05:35, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Blocked – for a period of 2 weeks for WP:NPA, WP:DE. El_C 06:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Cyberfan195 - Categories & Misleading edit summaries
| BLOCKED INDEFINITELY | |
| Cyberfan195 blocked for WP:DISRUPT and WP:ENGAGE by NinjaRobotPirate (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 12:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user is constantly making new categories and adding categories left and right, most with one of two edit summaries: "fixed." or "added source(s)". This has been continuing on, despite many warnings against this on their talk page, and even with a block for harassment in February 2020. Many other users, including myself, have been warning them for unconstructive edits, unsourced content, and their misleading edit summaries, with one tonight.
Yet, despite my recent warning, their contribution history shows they continue to use misleading edit summaries, seemingly ignoring that warning. At this point, the user seems to be WP:NOTHERE. Non-responsive, and continuing to use misleading summaries and disruptive edits. Something needs to be done here. Thanks in advance. Magitroopa (talk) 00:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Seconded. Their only interest appears to be adding categories; of their few edits to talk pages, most were to make small changes to categories that were incorrectly added. (The other edits were unblocking requests.) Trivialist (talk) 10:15, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've blocked Cyberfan195 indefinitely to force a response to the complaints. Sometimes I think we should just get rid of genres and categories. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 11:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Racism (at Idris Elba)
Racism at Wikipedia -- just below the surface -- rooted in the notion that black people cannot be English (at best, they can only be British). This idea is apparent here. We also have a talk-page section [101] -- a bit dated, except that there are some recent contributions going along with the first post in the section. It is also apparent in the way Idris Elba (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) is being edited to favour British over English -- despite clear self-identification ("Listen guys: I'm English".) This is all quite shocking. We simply would not be having the same sort of discussion (and editing) in connection with a white person... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 14:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm. Strange then, that nobody has noticed that six of the seven forwards listed at England national football team#Current squad are not "really" English. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- The fuller discussion is on the BLP noticeboard, along with my comments on the matter as it should relate to ANI. Their most recent (5th) change to reintroduce their edit has been reverted, and an admin has warned them not to reinstate it. Let's just see how that goes. Assuming they drop the stick now, I'm not sure (further) admin action is needed. Also, you should've left ANI notices on both Chris Tomic and Ryan Soul's talk pages, as I believe you're referring to them in this matter. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 16:33, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have applied a 72 hour block for the edit warring (I note that it was not a 3RR violation, but it was edit warring nonetheless). GeneralNotability (talk) 23:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Nomoskedasticity, Um, really? The edit wars over English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish/British are at leats as old as Wikipedia. It's not racism, it's nationalism. Which is exactly as lame but slightly less problematic, at least mostly. Guy(help!) 23:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, there's nationalism -- but several of the posts people have made make it crystal clear it's also racism. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:27, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- JzG Have you read the talk page discussion? British not English = boring, but not racist, conversation about nationalism. Black people can't be described as English? I guess I can imagine a non-racist way that someone could think that, but I'm really having to stretch the old AGF almost to breaking point. GirthSummit (blether) 19:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Girth Summit, that's... disturbing. Guy (help!) 22:55, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Kremlin IP editing American political articles
109.252.171.205 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
I first noticed this IP promoting the QAnon conspiracy theory as if they were an American who believed in it (I am one of them since 2 weeks ago, we have official site and etc. We will have one of us in congress soon.
). They have also argued that Trump can do whatever he wants with regard to copyright. Now, when a user with an account makes statements that they believe QAnon is real or true, other admins and I have given them maybe one warning before indefinitely blocking them as lacking distinction between reality from fantasy necessary to edit.
There are other edits to non-political articles that don't appear to be problematic but elsewhere the IP sings Putin's praises (for putting in a loophole that will allow him to stay in office indefinitely) and even mocks those who don't join their chorus. They have also asserted that Crimea was not part of the Ukraine (as if Russia's invasion was totally legitimate).
The IP geolocates to the Kremlin. Given that Russia has a history of interfering in various website to skew public opinion, should this IP really be welcome to edit articles relating to international politics? Ian.thomson (talk) 22:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Is it possible to partial-block IPs? If so, we should partial-block them if this is what we should expect. —A little blue Bori v^_^v 2020's a bust; thanks SARS-CoV-2 22:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Nuke it from orbit. Heiro 22:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- For clarification: does the IP geolocate to "the Kremlin" (your words), or to the whole city of Moscow? Otherwise, if an IP is disruptive it can be blocked whether it's coming from Moscow, Berlin, Paris, Washington DC, or the North Pole. -Darouet (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whether or not if it's not a Kremlin employee, the IP pretending to be an US citizen fits one of the tricks used by the Russian web brigades. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- You said "The IP geolocates to the Kremlin.". Your topic heading is "Kremlin IP editing American political articles". But on the page that you linked to, all I see is Moscow. Am I missing something, or are you assuming that's the same thing? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 23:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- The IP location - Latitude:(55° 45′ 9.72″ N),Longitude:(37° 37′ 1.92″ E) shows as Srednyaya Arsenal'naya Bashnya, a military building inside the Kremlin. It's most likely an employee editing since they did not use a series of proxies to hide the location. CBS527Talk 00:12, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- The IP "location" is a public park in the dead center of the city, but I strongly doubt that the center of the gigantic red circle ringing Moscow in this link [102] is the actual location of this person's editing. If we're going to jump down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, a Russian intelligence operation targeting Wikipedia using IPs that geolocate to the center of Moscow is less parsimonious than a teenager's trolling operation to discover our most gullible editors. -Darouet (talk) 02:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- The IP location - Latitude:(55° 45′ 9.72″ N),Longitude:(37° 37′ 1.92″ E) shows as Srednyaya Arsenal'naya Bashnya, a military building inside the Kremlin. It's most likely an employee editing since they did not use a series of proxies to hide the location. CBS527Talk 00:12, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- You said "The IP geolocates to the Kremlin.". Your topic heading is "Kremlin IP editing American political articles". But on the page that you linked to, all I see is Moscow. Am I missing something, or are you assuming that's the same thing? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 23:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whether or not if it's not a Kremlin employee, the IP pretending to be an US citizen fits one of the tricks used by the Russian web brigades. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- For clarification: does the IP geolocate to "the Kremlin" (your words), or to the whole city of Moscow? Otherwise, if an IP is disruptive it can be blocked whether it's coming from Moscow, Berlin, Paris, Washington DC, or the North Pole. -Darouet (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have blocked them for WP:CIR, POV pushing, and being WP:NOTHERE, regardless of whether or not they are a Russian state troll. I have emailed ComCom however, as this is sensitive if true. The block length is one month right now, as they've had this same IP for a while. The block may need to be made longer, its possible they have a static IP. Another admin is free to change the block length, or update the block reason, should more info be found regarding their troll status. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 23:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- How long do you think it'll be before some of the people involved in this discussion find polonium replacing the sugar in their drinks? 86.181.78.88 (talk) 10:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.78.88 (talk) 10:26, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Range Blocks Needed
Given the threats and the source, IPv4 and IPv6 range blocks should be implemented. Can't imagine there would be much collateral damage from long term range blocks either. 2600:1003:B85A:8941:58A5:1343:374:B85 (talk) 00:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
User Redirecting Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe to Christopher Langan without consensus on talk page.
| Content dispute- discussion to be moved elsewhere. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Back in 2006 two articles were written on the Cognitive Theoretic Model of the Universe. They didn't pass AfD at the time. One was Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cognitive_Theoretic_Model_of_the_Universe (without the hypen) and the other was Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_the_Universe. The later was redirected to Christopher Langan, the author of the CTMU. Since 2006 more as been written about the CTMU and I believe it deserves a shot at passing the GNG as determined by a consensus of editors on Wikipedia as the version that I've written. Instead of nominating the new version for AfD and having the appropriate discussion ජපස is replacing it with the redirect back to Christopher Langan and arguing for a request for comment on the topic of the new version of the article. I don't believe an RfC addresses this appropriately as (1) the consensus that was reached in 2006 was on entirely different version of the article (2) all of the sources in the 2020 version were published after 2006 (3) I see no evidence that the editors involved in the decision 14 years ago are still active on this article.
If ජපස believes the article is non-notable, I believe the appropriate action to take is an AfD. If there is an AfD, I'll respect whatever the outcome of the AfD is. - Scarpy (talk) 04:11, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Scarpy, please review and observe WP:ONUS. The longstanding version of the page has been as a redirect, for many years. Gain the consensus if you wish it to be otherwise. El_C 04:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- This appears to be a mainspace content dispute and I am doubtful that it belongs at ANI. That said, I would note that the last major discussion of this took place in 2006. An argument could be made that the 2006 discussion and consensus may be stale and due for a review. All of which said, this is not the forum for that discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:21, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem what would be the forum for that discussion? - Scarpy (talk) 04:33, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C I would ask the same question. What would the appropriate forum for changing consensus on this point be when none of the editors that determined it in 2006 are active on the topic. You're talking about something that's 14 years old. - Scarpy (talk) 04:43, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- The suggestion for an RfC seems reasonable to me. You could also post a neutrally worded alert to the discussion on the talk pages of relevant wiki projects. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:47, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- This appears to be a mainspace content dispute and I am doubtful that it belongs at ANI. That said, I would note that the last major discussion of this took place in 2006. An argument could be made that the 2006 discussion and consensus may be stale and due for a review. All of which said, this is not the forum for that discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:21, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Fake allegations by user from multiple accounts
- Tylertoney Dude perfect (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Pixel Lupus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- XxPixel WarriorxX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
A user from multiple accounts disturbing and targeting me with fake allegations on my talk page without any proof or explanation please take a review. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ytpks896 (talk • contribs)
- I note that all of these accounts are declared as operated by the same person on Pixel Lupus's userpage (though it also says that Tylertoney Dude perfect is no longer used, which is self-evidently not true). Tylertoney Dude perfect/Pixel Lupus/XxPixel WarriorxX/whatever you want to be called, Ytpks896 is permitted to remove your comments from your talk page and has indicated that they do not want you to post to their talk page - please respect that. GeneralNotability (talk) 15:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Ok Now my part of the story, You may see that I said I do not operate Tylertoney Dude Perfect but my main account XxPixel WarriorxX is lost now and I could not log in so I needed to use another account if I wanted to edit Wikipedia so I used Tylertoney Dude Perfect. Done with this fact and now about Fake Allegations (Allegations- A type of Blame out on a person if the person that puts found him guilty) So practically I did not put allegation on him. Yeah..Yeah I know you will say about Neutrality and all so understand his edits centred Pakistan and I found Many Unfair on India's side and mostly for Sensitive and Disputed regions so I left a message saying whenever you edit keep mindset of both sides before editing that he actually did not follow according to me(Proofs I will give you)that is what I said. OK.Pixel Lupus (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- You say you don't operate it, yet you did use it to post on your page, along with your main account. Since you don't use it, I assume you have no problem if I just block the Tylertoney Dude Perfect and XxPixel WarriorxX so we don't have this problem (confusion) in the future? Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment)Unless I'm missing something, this is bizarre. Firstly, if Pixel Lupus doesn't control those accounts, then the obvious question is, who does? Secondly, if in fact, they are theirs and that was an erroneous statement, then using three different accounts to warn another editor about the same issue has got to be about as blatant a misapplication of WP:VALIDALT in a long time. ——Serial # 16:21, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
At least you all can talk to me at my talk page if you have any doubts, All the three accounts ate mine only, By that statement I meant that I used XxPixel WarriorxX and Tylertoney Dude Perfect was inactive, but My XxPixel WarriorxX got lost so I started using Tylertoney Dude Perfect and about Pixel Lupus it is a account which I use when my accounts are unavailable cause they are at different phones so when they are Unavailable then I use this. Understood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tylertoney Dude perfect (talk • contribs) 16:56, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- This user creating lots of confusion and making erroneous statements they also reverting my edits from different accounts and warning me from different account, I hope this user's other accounts must be blocked.
As long as you are correct I may support you but if you are not then I must not. I never have reverted any edit of except one: 1.) Kashmir Conflict Map which you.. You.. Reverted of ABHIMAN 19 and was a correct map so I added on his behalf cause he was blocked.. Thanks to you... For that..
Case is Different here:
2.) Afghanistan you.. You.. Reverted my edit stating it was not a good source so I agreed and went for a search for a good reliable source...
So pretty much.... I have defied your claims from your recent edits here...Tylertoney Dude perfect (talk) 17:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Pixel Lupus unlike Dennis Brown I'm not as nice. I find your use of two different accounts in one section here disruptive and confusing. So I blocked the lost account and the one you claim you are not using. If another admin feels like unblocking one or both of the alternate accounts feel free. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:21, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree. I just had all this rope and wanted to see how he was going to hang himself. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:10, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, and Pixel Lupus, if you do that again with multiple accounts, you can expect to be blocked for socking. Declaring alt accounts doesn't give you carte blanche to use them to unnecessarily cause confusion. If fact, you have to have an alt account, may I suggest "Pixel Lupus (alt)". Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree. I just had all this rope and wanted to see how he was going to hang himself. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:10, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
(Alt) what is that! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pixel Lupus (talk • contribs) 06:42, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Pixel Lupus, 'alt' it is an abbreviation for 'alternative' - it's a way of showing that two accounts are controlled by the same person. I don't really understand why you think it necessary to have multiple accounts to edit from multiple devices - I edit from several devices using this account. If there is some overriding reason why you can't do that, ensure that any other accounts are a variation on your existing username. GirthSummit (blether) 07:46, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Disruption from Jingiby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This is a Bulgarian user who is constantly editing articles concerning Macedonia, Macedonian people and the Macedonian language with blatant chauvinistic Bulgarian propaganda and pseudo historic "artificially created nation" myths, and is glorifying Axis occupation as "liberation" by citing dubious and biasedly one sided Bulgarian sources. Examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pavel_Shatev&diff=prev&oldid=963892765
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Macedonian_Uprising_in_1941
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Macedonians_in_Serbia&diff=prev&oldid=957238827
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Macedonian_language&diff=954199612&oldid=954196050
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Macedonian_language&diff=954200901&oldid=954199612 Dedokire (talk) 12:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Probably the case is related to this issue. Wikipedia warriors: The new frontline of the battle for Macedonia organised by the United Macedonian Diaspora. Jingiby (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Nothere boomerang? Or just close? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- What's really great is when outsiders go to the trouble of campaigning against you off Wiki. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked per NOTHERE. The fact that this came out of nowhere from an inactive account smells of sock or meatpuppetry. If I had a dollar for every nationalist/ethnic edit warrior on Wikipedia...Sro23 (talk) 18:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- right-e-o. 9 edits in 10 years and then stuff I ain't sayin' --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you User:Sro23. It is unfair that User:Jingiby's nationality was targeted now just for doing his job. There is a worrisome trend of meatpuppetry on Macedonia-topic articles as of late. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ contribs ✎) 07:50, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- right-e-o. 9 edits in 10 years and then stuff I ain't sayin' --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Update: @Sro23 and Deepfriedokra: since you were active here on this discussion, my I ask for your attention at Talk:Prespa agreement? The IPs are now attacking Jingiby again, and this time me as well. In meantime, I made now a Request for Protection at [104] as well. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ contribs ✎) 13:06, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I blocked the one. It would take a sizable rangeblock to get them all. Block a whole country???? No. The RFPP people can have a go as well. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thats enough, thanks. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ contribs ✎) 14:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Speaking of RFPP: I have semi-protected the talk page for a week. -- MelanieN (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Those IP's are socks of User:Operahome. You know, that Igor Janev-obsessed one. Sro23 (talk) 01:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Deepfriedokra, MelanieN, and Sro23:, you are awesome, thank you for your swift responses! --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ contribs ✎) 09:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Chris Tomic
- Chris Tomic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This edit to Idris Elba (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) neatly encapsulates the problem with Chris Tomic's editing: It doesn't matter what he himself describes himself as. A criminal in a court of law describes himself/herself as innocent; THAT DOES NOT MEAN however that HE OR SHE IS INNOCENT IN ACTUAL FACT. Ethnicity is a definition, not a description or self-chosen identity. It assertts not only that English is an ethnicity (a tendentious claim), but that it is only an ethnicity and not a nationality (which is doubly tendentious). It uses an analogy of criminality to assert that a black man somehow cannot be English, which at best is profoundly tone deaf. It is worth noting here that Elba was born in Hackney, which is within the sound of Bow Bells. Not only is he English, he's a Cockney! Anyway, I think Chris Tomic's edits are sufficiently disturbing that they mnay warrant a topic ban from the topics of nationality, race or ethnicity. Guy (help!) 09:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've had a quick look through Chris Tomic's recent contributions. They returned from something of an editing hiatus earlier this year; since then, the majority of his edits have been related to the nationality of subjects - they're either unexplained changes from English/Welsh to British (e.g. this, this and this), changing a nationality to reflect ethnicity (e.g. this), or discussing nationality on talk pages (e.g. Talk:Niko Bellic). Randomly spot-checking some of their older contribs from before the hiatus, their interests seemed more diverse, but I did come across this and this which are about the subjects' Jewish heritage; the whole area of ethnicity seems to be of particular interest to them. I agree with JzG's conclusion that some of their recent comments are at best reprehensibly tone-deaf. Chris Tomic is currently blocked for edit warring at Idris Elba in the face of an obvious consensus at BLPN; if their first edit upon the expiration of the block is not a statement at this thread along the lines of "Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry, I've said some really stupid things; I will now carefully read MOS:ETHNICITY, MOS:OPENPARABIO and WP:UKNATIONALS and ensure that I don't make any more changes that aren't fully compliant with all three", then I would support a TBAN from this whole area. GirthSummit (blether) 10:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Turning article talk page into personal attacks platform
I would like to report this section of Talk:Boris Malagurski, as User:Mikola22 and User:EdJohnston are turning the article talk page into a platform for attacking me, making accusations against me, simply because of my interest in Boris Malagurski related topics.
--UrbanVillager (talk) 13:46, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whilst true the correct place to discus you actions is not on an articles talk page, but here. I am also not sure you wanted to draw attention to this.Slatersteven (talk) 14:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's not an attack on you. I was interested in what Wikipedia rules say about this. It seems as you editing article instead of Boris Malagurski. You are interested in him and there is no problem with that. I didn’t know it was allowed, now I know. Mikola22 (talk) 14:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Recently (July 4) I put full protection on the Boris Malagurski article due to edit warring. The dispute was whether three tags ought to be kept on the article: for COI, autobiography and NPOV. On 1 July UrbanVillager removed the three tags as part of the edit war. The thread on article talk is intended to reach agreement on whether the three tags should be kept. One of the issues to be resolved is if the 'COI' tag is justified. Apparently the claimed COI is about UrbanVillager. If he would prefer not to have the discussion about him on article talk, then I can relocate it to WP:COIN and then link to it from the article talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 15:38, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's not an attack on you. I was interested in what Wikipedia rules say about this. It seems as you editing article instead of Boris Malagurski. You are interested in him and there is no problem with that. I didn’t know it was allowed, now I know. Mikola22 (talk) 14:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to request that an administrator other than User:EdJohnston assesses this incident, as EdJohnston is involved in the incident. I'd also like to add that this isn't the first time users are personally attacking me on the Boris Malagurski talk page because of my interest in Boris Malagurski related topics -- Previously, User:Santasa99 created a section titled Editor Urban Villager. My edits on articles are NPOV and I add facts without inputting a single bit of my personal POV, while I do my very best to find reliable sources for every single sentence that I add to any article. On the other hand, I see users coming with very strong opinions on Boris Malagurski and his work, as evident on the article talk page as well as the talk pages of Malagurski's films, and then attacking me for being one of the few constructive editors of the article. As for the removal of the tags, there was no consensus for adding the tags, but User:Santasa99 started an edit war over them. I'm not sure why EdJohnston protected the articles after User:Santasa99's revert, thus leaving the tags protected before consensus is reached on whether they should be added, but Wikipedia:Wrong Version is a great excuse for that. I see EdJohnston tried to remedy the fact that he added 2,600 characters of personal attacks against me, mentioning several other users as if he's trying to invite them to continue the attacks and accusations against me, by suggesting that maybe this isn't the place to discuss this, and that the witch hunt against me should continue elsewhere. --UrbanVillager (talk) 17:16, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm going to limit this to conversation on that talk page only, as I'm not up to go research vague claims about past actions without diffs. What I see is Mikola22 asking a question about a COI regarding you on the talk page of the very article the COI would cover. Not a comfortable discussion, and perhaps better asked at WP:COIN but it is the 2nd best place to ask. EdJohnston, who is an admin and we assume knowledgeable about these things, answer it in detail, spelling out the history without injecting his own opinion, except to say he probably would have closed with the same result (no action). When pressed further on this issue, the first words out of Ed's mouth (keyboard) was "In my opinion, if there is a need for a longer COI discussion it should take place over at WP:COIN. " In short, I'm sure it is uncomfortable for you, but I can't see any issue with EdJohnston's actions, which were quite neutral. It would have been better if Mikola22 simply went to WP:COIN to start with, but it would have been worse if he had come to WP:ANI, where we are now. Again, I don't see any obvious bad faith. In the future, he will likely know where to go. I don't see any policy violation, even if the discussion was started in a less than optimal place. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:34, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- There is no "personal attacks", there is expressed concerns on suspicion that your editing is in COI, and as it happened, I misread COI and COIN instruction regarding sequence of appropriate steps, that should be taken before formal report is filed, so instead of initiating discussion on your TP I started it on article TP. However, I admitted my mistake there, but conversation has already commenced and you have taken part in it, without complain. But when EdJohnston decided to protect the page it suddenly became a problem, and you resorted to generating suspicion regarding Edjohnston's involvement and actions.--౪ Santa ౪99° 01:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think that the principle of neutrality has been broken and I can see why UV is filling like he/she has been attacked - there is more than ample evidence (plus the general style used) on the TP. There is no breathing space for people to discuss in good faith, not to mention that the RfC was started after an edit war, which was followed by report/s, all of which included the same mediator. The last comment on the TP suggests that the fellow editor UrbanVillager is a targeted for massive hounding and dirt digging, or that's my impression at least?! [105] Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 00:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Stop-gap block on image competition editor please
I thought the Do's and Don'ts of that abominable image spamming competition had been communicated to participants by now, but obviously not. Could an admin please apply the brakes to Ababio70 while I clean up their trail of duplicates (argh), random keyword matches (argh), and nonsensical captions (argh). They don't seem to notice comments on their talk page. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Done. Shame we can't do more with Filter 1073 here, the editors that are treating this damn thing properly are simply getting outweighed by the spammers. Black Kite (talk) 00:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC) - Black Kite, I'm open to suggestions for a warn or throttle variant of the filter if someone can suggest good rules for it. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- GeneralNotability The rules are fine, it needs to be set to warn though I think. I wouldn't throttle it as there are some editors doing quite a few images perfectly well. I'd set it to warn, with quite a strong warning that images added must add value to the article by being (a) relevant (b) correctly captioned (c) not already in the article, and (d) not non-free, and that editors may be blocked if they do not follow these rules. Black Kite (talk) 02:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Black Kite, I'm open to suggestions for a warn or throttle variant of the filter if someone can suggest good rules for it. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
User Snowded
| I spent half an hour reading through this thread (there goes my lunchbreak) and was contemplating summing things up with a block. However, I went back through Sirjohnperrot's recent contributions over the last few days, and he seems to have calmed down a bit and is becoming more productive. So I endorse WCM's suggestion that we shouldn't block for now and close this thread with no further action at this stage. Snowded has offered mentorship, and SilkTork has already had a word with them and explained that unnecessary snark and verbiage can land you in trouble with other editors, and hopefully that's had the desired effect. I think for now, the discussion has run its course and we should close it. However, if there's any further suggestion of disruption or troublemaking starting up again, any editor is free to ping me and I'll look into it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Snowded (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Sirjohnperrot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Despite several attempts at resolution on the respective Talkpages this user has engaged in a series of personal attacks following an exchange about my editing of the Laugharne article. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Have you any evidence for this charge at all? -Roxy the elfin dog .wooF 13:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'll leave his edit history on my and other people's user pages to speak for itself -----SnowdedTALK 13:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- SomehowI don't think Snowded is the problem --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:20, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have warned Sirjohnperrot, but sanctions are still possible. El_C 13:23, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please also see the discussion on my user talk page at User talk:Verbcatcher#Sir James Perrot & Sir Sackville Crowe of Westmead. Verbcatcher (talk) 13:26, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have warned Sirjohnperrot, but sanctions are still possible. El_C 13:23, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- SomehowI don't think Snowded is the problem --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:20, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'll leave his edit history on my and other people's user pages to speak for itself -----SnowdedTALK 13:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Where's the linked evidence of said behaviour? GoodDay (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- The talk page of Verbacher linked above pretty well says it all. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:31, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've also been reported for vandalism :-) -----Snowded TALK 13:36, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- The talk page of Verbacher linked above pretty well says it all. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:31, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think we may need to get Australian, forum shopping to get a user banned is shabby at best.Slatersteven (talk) 13:39, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Only warned. Limbering up my throwing arm. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support you doing whatever you see fit, Deepfriedokra. El_C 13:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Only warned. Limbering up my throwing arm. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Reading through Talk:Laugharne and his talk page, it would appear Sirjohnperrot is a problem. He's getting close to a tban on his name sake. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:56, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Having seen the vitriol and offended attitude over a simple discussion of sources, not seeing their own faults while blowing out of proportion any disagreement, accusing attempts at helping them of being personal attacks (and personal insults), I'm convinced OP is not suited for a collaborative environment. Reporting non vandalism at WP:AIV was certainly beyond my imagination. @Sirjohnperrot:, this is a limited time offer. Please either substantiate your accisations here or withdraw your complaint. The alternative is that you be blocked from editing. If anyone sees an alternative outcome, please speak up. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- TBAN siuts. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- We'll have to wait for the lad to respond. But, Snowded a vandal of articles? doubt it. GoodDay (talk) 14:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- It gets better. Is this a legal threat? @Sirjohnperrot: Do please explain your accusations. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deepfriedokra, I sought clarification, which is to say, a categorical withdraw of any threat of legal action. El_C 14:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- It gets better. Is this a legal threat? @Sirjohnperrot: Do please explain your accusations. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- We'll have to wait for the lad to respond. But, Snowded a vandal of articles? doubt it. GoodDay (talk) 14:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sanctions are coming? El_C 14:15, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
on 18 June Sirjohnperrot requested protection of my user talk page.[106] This was interpreted as a request for protection of Laugharne.[107] Verbcatcher (talk) 14:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- That seems like an honest mistake. I wouldn't hold it against them. El_C 14:21, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- In no hurry. Awaiting response from OP. TBAN vs Indef. Given the torrent of words, I'd expected a response. The quasi legal threat just makes this so much better. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Not compatible with a collaborative project is the essay I had in mind. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- In no hurry. Awaiting response from OP. TBAN vs Indef. Given the torrent of words, I'd expected a response. The quasi legal threat just makes this so much better. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Can I throw this hat into the ring? The phrase "family history burrowings" suggests that they may have a COI, and are attempting to write about one of their ancestors. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:12, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Nah. Good be. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Redrose64, I posed that question to them directly (uw-coi). El_C 15:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure dramamongering on his talk page is helping him. I'm still where I was, a Tban obviously makes sense in one way, but I think the problems run deeper than this one topic. It's already been stated but I will repeat that some people just aren't suited to working in a collaborative environment. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but obviously something strong is needed. There does seem to be a consensus for that. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:45, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'd say we give the lad another 24 hrs to provide his supposed evidence. If he doesn't? then this report should be closed. GoodDay (talk) 19:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- So you're saying give it a good day before saying good day? :-) Levivich [dubious – discuss] 20:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- OP wants to complain about me. I again invited them to respond here. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- So you're saying give it a good day before saying good day? :-) Levivich [dubious – discuss] 20:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'd say we give the lad another 24 hrs to provide his supposed evidence. If he doesn't? then this report should be closed. GoodDay (talk) 19:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Greetings to my fellow user, Dennis. We've not been formally introduced but let me congratulate you on your vituperative talents, they are considerable and clearly well practised. If you and Deepfriedokra are indeed benchmarks of collaborative working our planet is really in trouble. I suppose if gratuitous and ignorant abuse counts for anything anywhere you've found a position as Wiki administrators where it might, do you also venerate dishonesty like your fellow team members? Sirjohnperrot (talk) 22:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Shall we assume, you're putting evidence together? I've known Snowded for many years & ain't seen him vandalising articles. GoodDay (talk) 23:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sirjohnperrot, unless you have evidence to add, please refrain from the passive-aggressive innuendo. El_C 02:03, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Greetings to my fellow user, Dennis. We've not been formally introduced but let me congratulate you on your vituperative talents, they are considerable and clearly well practised. If you and Deepfriedokra are indeed benchmarks of collaborative working our planet is really in trouble. I suppose if gratuitous and ignorant abuse counts for anything anywhere you've found a position as Wiki administrators where it might, do you also venerate dishonesty like your fellow team members? Sirjohnperrot (talk) 22:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- An extended edit war by Sirjohnperrot (against all other editors involved) to insert the name of the Elizabethian Sir John Perrot as a notable person in the article on Laugharne. I, others and Airplaneman who protected the article explained that s/he had to provide evidence that the said Sir John was born in or lived in Laugharne and it wasn't enough to show he lived in another village within the wider area covered by Laughane Township (then a separate article).
- S/he did not listen to all the advise given, but we tried to be helpful. I suggested that given the Townshop article was a stub the two articles could be merged at which point there would be no issue. That happened, I closed the merge, added in the disputed name. I then had the status of "favourite Wikipedia editor of all time" :-)
- I stepped back then as editors with more knowledge and interest in local history got involved but it wasn't long before the tendatious behaviour started again and there were a series of attacks on Verbcatcher including a post where s/he said he had reported Verbcatcher to Oversight (I assume by email)
- I then gave a level 2 warning] and s/he then threw every warning in the book on my talk page and edit warred when I deleted them - despite a polite note explaining policy
- Then we get the report here, a few hours after reporting me for vandalism
My view on this is that:
- S/he has the capability to be a good detailed editor on Wikipedia - lots of access to sources and interest in the material - little experience and what seems like an over obsession with one subject but that would not be the first time we have seen this and getting good editors is worth a little effort
- But the agressive response to any contradiction is an issue - the way s/he frames the problem here, suggesting that I am taking revenge for loosing a debate on the insertion of Sir John (I actually put the name in folling the merge which I suggested) illustrates the problem.
- Then we have the unwillingness to learn, despite constant references to policy there is zero evidence that s/he has read the material or attempted to understand it which raises the issue of competence; the assertion s/he had been singled out to be blocked when s/he only encountered edit conflicts being the latest example.
I'd suggest that an absolute ban on ANY reference to the competence, attitudes or motivations of any other editor coupled with a 1RR restriction and the suggestion of a mentor might be a way forward if s/he is prepared to accept it. A topic ban on ANYTHING to do with Perrots broadly defined for a month to allow experience to be built elsewhere might be a useful addition to that. But if there is no willingness to change, and I can't see any in the reponses then I can't see any other option than a long block. The latest suggestion that s/he appeal to Jimmy against the evil machinations of two admins doesn't help the case. -----Snowded TALK 05:16, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Assuming that he doesn't provide diffs for what he claims. A mentor would be acceptable & go from there. We must be careful not to appear to crush the lad. GoodDay (talk) 05:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good mentors are worth their weight in gold. If Sirjohnperrot is amenable, maybe start scouting for one? El_C 06:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ironically I did offer to help last month and the offer still stands (and to be clear I know I am not worth my weight in gold) but I think we need some evidence that s/he is willing to change and accept key policies before moving on here -----SnowdedTALK 07:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. If they agree about and manage to find a mentor, that would be ideal — a fitting end to this saga. El_C 07:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- GoodDay I've offered the evidence to support my report on several occasions already but the exchanges I've referenced seem to regarded as a confession that I made it all up. Not sure what 'diffs' have to do with it either - nothing has been deleted as far as I know - is it shorthand for a certain format? I'm always happy and grateful to be mentored btw - still got a couple of experienced editors giving me advice about this scrape - it can summed up as 'repent & survive' :( Pity they didn't tell me I hadn't already been banned after your admin pack tucked in yesterday - it would have spared me the embarrassment of making a premature scaffold farewell to my friends. I'm guessing the real event isn't far off though judging from today's deposits on my talkpage. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 12:20, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- You have not been banned, but I suspect you are about to be. Diff means you find one edit they made and then link to it, you do not ask us to dig for your evidence.Slatersteven (talk) 12:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm obliged, can't imagine why anyone would call you rude names though Sirjohnperrot (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- You have not been banned, but I suspect you are about to be. Diff means you find one edit they made and then link to it, you do not ask us to dig for your evidence.Slatersteven (talk) 12:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- GoodDay I've offered the evidence to support my report on several occasions already but the exchanges I've referenced seem to regarded as a confession that I made it all up. Not sure what 'diffs' have to do with it either - nothing has been deleted as far as I know - is it shorthand for a certain format? I'm always happy and grateful to be mentored btw - still got a couple of experienced editors giving me advice about this scrape - it can summed up as 'repent & survive' :( Pity they didn't tell me I hadn't already been banned after your admin pack tucked in yesterday - it would have spared me the embarrassment of making a premature scaffold farewell to my friends. I'm guessing the real event isn't far off though judging from today's deposits on my talkpage. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 12:20, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. If they agree about and manage to find a mentor, that would be ideal — a fitting end to this saga. El_C 07:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ironically I did offer to help last month and the offer still stands (and to be clear I know I am not worth my weight in gold) but I think we need some evidence that s/he is willing to change and accept key policies before moving on here -----SnowdedTALK 07:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good mentors are worth their weight in gold. If Sirjohnperrot is amenable, maybe start scouting for one? El_C 06:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks - don't suppose there is a template/model for an ANI report I can look at ? Not familiar territory as you know but I'm keen to assist Sirjohnperrot (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- FWIW, there's a parallel discussion at User talk:Sirjohnperrot. As user stated a wish to report me, I feel I have nothing further to contribute, and have withdrawn. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:13, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Remedies-- quo vadis?
My impression from yesterday was that OP is not compatible with a collaborative project. With mentorship, user can probably be constructive, if they accept mentorship. I have not always found user to be receptive to reason/guidance/contradiction. I think they are overly tetchy. User has refused to provide dif's for the (to me baseless accusations) and has refused to withdraw them. Contrarily, user demands admins do something. Perhaps we should. UNless mentorship leaps forward as an option, I think a WP:TBAN (to be demarcated by the community) or an indefinite block, removable when user's intransigence has passed, are the options of choice. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm leaning more towards a block as time goes on. This is becoming a giant time sink for someone that isn't likely to get the point, since they have't gotten a single point yet. We've tried patience and that hasn't gotten us very far, except for a few "highbrow" insults. Simply put, I have better things to do than mentor someone who already assumes they are right on every point, thus, beyond criticism. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 18:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have to say, at this point I think if they are mentored it will not work, and the mentor will give up in frustration. But if someone wants to volunteer to waste their time why not.Slatersteven (talk) 09:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Summary from OP
OK - Here' s my summary This incident began with Verbcatcher accusing me of dishonestly by altering a source. He refused to apologise and I raised te matter with the oversight team because of his disruptive editing . In the event he didn’t revert my revision based on the source so their role proved unnecessary and I let the matter go until Snowded announced he was going to use the event as evidence in his campaign to get me blocked. That prompted my ANI report and now the quite disgraceful handling of it by the admin team.
Extended content brought over by OP from their talk page |
|---|
| This is the record of events beginning with informing Verbcatcher of my Oversight treport.
Sirjohnperrot (talk) 09:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Sirjohnperrot (talk) 14:53, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
References
> I am an inexperienced user but believe my contributions do benefit Wikipedia and > welcome the advice and guidance given to ensure they are properly presented. My > issue is with unfounded accusations of dishonesty made yesterday by Verbcatcher > on the Laugharne Talk Page/Perrot section for which there has been no apology. His > conduct is unacceptable and is now accompanied by disruptive editing which > continues unchecked. My own shortcomings are numerous in terms of protocol and > courtesy but my input is made in good faith and with serious intent. Verbcatcher > has crossed a line and I draw your attention to the matter in the hope the > situation can be remedied. > > -- > This email was sent by user "Sirjohnperrot" on the English Wikipedia to user > "Oversight". It has been automatically delivered and the Wikimedia Foundation > cannot be held responsible for its contents. > > The sender has not been given the recipient's email address, nor any information > about his/her email account; and the recipient has no obligation to reply to this > email or take any other action that might disclose his/her identity. If you > respond, the sender will know your email address. For further information on > privacy, security, and replying, as well as abuse and removal from emailing, see > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Email>. > To manage email preferences for user Sirjohnperrot please visit > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Mute/Sirjohnperrot>. > From: XXXXX Sent: 01 July 2020 23:40 To: English Wikipedia Oversight Subject: RE: [Ticket#2020070110003506] Wikipedia email from user "Sirjohnperrot" I have reverted the edit in question in two stages and that version remains current as I write. The disruptive edit was by Verbcatcher and is identified with a red arrow on this screenshot of the edit history of the Laugharne article The context is in current discussion on the Laugharne Talk Page#Perrot and Verbcatcher’s Talk Page#Sir James Perrot & Sir Sackville Crowe. To: XXXXX Subject: Re: [Ticket#2020070110003506] Wikipedia email from user "Sirjohnperrot" Dear XXXXX, Please note, this is not the place to report disruptive users. We act under a strict policy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Oversight ) of what we can and can not remove. To report someone's behavior, please try ANI instead ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents ). If you still feel things need oversight after reading our policy, please email us back and be very specific about what needs to be removed. Sincerely, AmandaNP English Wikipedia Oversighter the Snowded decides to have another pop and use this situation to get me blocked User warningsThank you for your support on my user talk page. For the future, I think it is preferable to put warnings to other users their user talk page (with an edit summary in case the the warning is deleted), so that if an administrator later reviews the editor's actions the warning is explicit. When appropriate, it also helps to use one of the user talk namespace templates (see WikiProject User warnings). We should assume that an admin will not simply count the warnings, but will use them to help review a the issues. Verbcatcher (talk) 13:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
here's where it all kicks off with Snowded in my first ever talkpage exchange
My mobile phone doesn't seem to recognise the indentation code btw Sirjohnperrot (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I am now transferring this discussion back to the article's Talk page in the hope that an editorial consensus will enable my edit adding Sir James Perrot and Sir Thomas Perrot to be restored, as was the case with Sir John Perrot whose entry you also deleted and failed to restore for no good reason. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 20:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC) |
Sirjohnperrot (talk) 19:31, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Proposal for sanction
At this point, it seems clear that Sirjohnperrot lacks the ability to work in a collaborative system, and no amount of mentoring will help. I can't see anything gained from a topic ban or a short term block, so it is best if we just cut to the chase. I'm proposing a COMMUNITY block for an indefinite period of time (via WP:DE), meaning unblocking will require community consent as well. Dennis Brown - 2¢
Polling
- Support as proposer. This is turning into a giant time waster as he is never going to get "it". Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above . Wikipedia:Not compatible with a collaborative project. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:28, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps mentorship as part of a WP:STANDARD OFFER. If eligible. I don't think it would work now. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Suspending per possible development. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps mentorship as part of a WP:STANDARD OFFER. If eligible. I don't think it would work now. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Reserve judgment for now. I am trying to work out what is going on (apart from the obvious, of course). Guy (help!) 20:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support per all the evidence. Why hasn't this been done yet so that our wonderful Corps of Administration can spend their time more usefully? Hmm. -Roxy the elfin dog . wooF 20:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. This person is unsuited for a collaborative project, and has been wasting the time of several productive editors who could otherwise be improving the encyclopedia. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 20:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. I have read through the discussions on Talk:Laugharne, on User talk:Sirjohnperrot, and on User talk:Verbcatcher. Each instance of escalating antagonism seemed to be initiated by Sirjohnperrot, and each conciliatory explanation by Verbcatcher (who demonstrated remarkable patience throughout) just seemed to make Sirjohnperrot angrier. That level of determination to find and embrace offense is unhelpful on Wikipedia. <insert>As Sirjohnperrot's added responses still give no acknowledgement of any problems with their own behavior, I do not support mentorship as an alternative until at least after standard offer.</insert> Schazjmd (talk) 20:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support Levivich [dubious – discuss] 21:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support It has become increasingly evident that "Sirjohnperrot" is unable to act collaboratively, and unable or unwilling to even consider how his own behaviour looks to others, let alone try to modify it. He sees anything and everything that he doesn't like as an attack on him, or deliberate lying, or any of various other dreadful things. He appears to be unable to conceive of the idea of respectfully disagreeing; that means both that he can't do so, and that he can't see that other people are doing so, but sees disrespect where there isn't any. He is not only convinced that he is always right about everything, but also seems to be unable to imagine anyone who disagrees with him (and therefore must be wrong) doing so for anything other than wicked motives. What is more, he shows absolutely no interest whatever in learning from what others say, or changing his approach in any way. Numerous editors have put very large amounts of time into trying to explain things for him, into giving him opportunities to move forward (such as offering mentoring), into suggesting steps we can take to improve things, and so on, but they have achieved nothing. It is time to put an end to this totally unproductive time sink, so that we can move on and do more useful work for the encyclopaedia. JBW (talk) 22:05, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support - The mess of material they brought here from their talk page -- as if it was going to justify everything -- was the last straw for me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:11, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. I've spent a lot of time to try to work things out. And others have spent considerably more time than me, and progress is nonexistent. Enough is enough. Airplaneman (talk) ✈ 01:21, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support It's disappointing that this user has come down to this kind of editing behavior. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 06:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support, inexcusable conduct.--Bob not snob (talk) 06:30, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support mainly following the OP's retaliatory WP:AN thread, which seems to prove the very point under discussion here. ——Serial # 09:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Meh. I think it was an act of desperation, rather than retaliation. It's just a highlight of the overall impression of not being a good match for Wikipedia. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:51, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support - Enough is enough, There's only so much patience the community has and Sir has used all of that up. –Davey2010Talk 09:58, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Supportmainly following the OP's retaliatory WP:AN thread, as three is so much wrong with its assumptions accusation and self justification that it is hard to see how they can be mentored. They have not listened to one thing that has been said to them, not one piece of advice. Even after they have been told they are still not aware of what Diffs are.Slatersteven (talk) 10:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- OK lets give mentoring a chance. Who is going to step up?Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose - I still believe this fellow can be saved, with a mentor. My goodness, we should give it a chance. If after one month with a mentor, nothing has improved? then we can apply appropriate sanctions. If not a mentor? then a topic ban. GoodDay (talk) 13:28, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Mentor, if possible. If a mentor can be found, that would be my preferred course of action. Some users have more growing pains with Wikipedia's learning curve than others. There is still a chance that Sirjohnperrot could become a productive editor. They just need to commit to significant correction. That, alongside the oversight of a mentor, can bring the chances of success here well within the realm of possibility. I choose to be optimistic. El_C 17:33, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose, looks like this is the first noticeboard discussion in which they have been involved, their account has been autoconfirmed for less than six weeks, and evidence is not much stronger than the evidence they provided here of personal attacks by other editors. Peter James (talk) 22:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support with seven day appeal User appears intransigent, unwilling to learn, quick to blame others, quarrelsome (albeit politely), obsessive on minor points, not self-reflective, resentful, etc - qualities we frequently see in problematic users who drain our collective volunteer energy. I have mentored several times, and mentoring can work with users who have made mistakes but are willing to learn, but doesn't work with those who don't see that they are the problem. This user, albeit they have offered to withdraw the complaint which prompted this poll, still thinks that others are to blame rather than themselves. I'm also not comfortable voting for mentorship when nobody has volunteered to mentor. Because this is a new user and we like to give everyone a chance, we should, however, allow an appeal after seven days. If Sirjohnperrot is able to reflect on what people are saying, and demonstrate they understand what they have done wrong, and why we are voting to ban them from contributing to the project, then there is hope there will not be a repeat of this incident. If Sirjohnperrot is unable to reflect on this and come back after seven days with an acceptable appeal, then mentorship is highly unlikely to have worked anyway. SilkTork (talk) 23:58, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Excellent points, as usual. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support - Quite frankly, I'm amazed that this is still going on. If I had caught it before the 24 reprieve was offered, I would have blocked them at that point. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 00:15, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support with seven day appeal as recommended by SilkTork. Sirjohnperrot's statement on his talk page appears to indicate contrition and that he is amenable to Snowded's offer of mentorship. Mojoworker (talk) 06:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Discussion (sanctions concerning Sirjohnperrot)
- Great Ghu! I have not read any of user's more recent stuff. Carried over from his talk? I also see a response from AmandaNP (DeltaQuad) carried over. FWIW, there is more related content here. --Deepfriedokra (talk)
- Disclaimer please be aware that a large extract from section from User talk:Sirjohnperrot has been pasted into this discussion. This may lead to confusion as pasted content includes signatures from Sirjohnperrot, Snowded and myself for content that we had not posted to this Administrators' noticeboard discussion. This extract also makes this discussion difficult to follow – would it be appropriate to clarify what was been posted from elsewhere, perhaps by placing it in a grey box? Verbcatcher (talk) 20:56, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm of riper years and with that goes some opinions which seem to be unfashionable on here, such as truth is important. The belief that if you do something crooked, say something untrue - just to gain an advantage - then that gain is not worth having. Ban me if you like but I agree with Mr Kipling - "...on being lied about - don't deal in lies" I don't and if a pack of lies prevails in the community empowered to protect Wikipedia'ss main purpose l it'll be a sad day indeed. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 21:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Do you know, I hadn't read that comment when I posted my comment above, but it is a perfect confirmation of something I said there; you seem to be unable to conceive of anyone sincerely, in good faith, disagreeing with you. Anyone who says or does anything you think is wrong must by lying. Well, in a collaborative project there are always going to be disagreements among participants, and anyone who cannot or will not accept such disagreements as good faith differences of opinion to be worked with, but always sees them as lies and attacks to be uncompromisingly opposed, is, obviously, never going to be able to work collaboratively. JBW (talk) 22:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I suppose if you disregard everybody other than the two involved in my report (+ a few admins) who I've disagreed with amicably and constructively on here then your description of my delinquent state would be correct. There are quite a few of those I like to think but not on this list clearly. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 22:46, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- OK. He's thrown his toys out of his perambulater, now ban him? -Roxy the elfin dog .wooF 21:05, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Just 'pram' in Stockport Roxy, nothing fancy about folk from here.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirjohnperrot (talk • contribs) 22:46, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not interested in the Truth®, it is interested in verifiable facts. See WP:TRUTH. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I am and so should you be, we're people after all but I agree Wikipedia is about accuracy, which relies on honesty Sirjohnperrot (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- This is precisely why you can't adapt to editing here within the policies set forth. It requires you adopt a basic set of rules, some you will find common sense, some, less so, but we all agree with function within the bounds of these "rules". The rules (policies and guidelines) are decided by the community and we agree to comply with them. Or we don't, and we leave. Compliance is not optional. Sadly, I would imagine you are nice enough in person, perhaps a little curmudgeonly, but we all can be as we age. But good intentions aren't good enough. Either you can work collaboratively, or you can't. So it isn't personal (it can't be, I don't know you, nor does anyone else here). It is simply that we have better things to do than debate endlessly over what is already accepted by the community, particularly when you are unwilling to bend in the wind the least amount. Your reaction to my comment just above demonstrates this. This just isn't the right platform for you. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Dennis Brown Why does my last reply show I'm unable to comply with the rules? Your ban proposal and this poll is very unfair. Seeking to write me off as some sort of 'curmudgeonly' lost cause on the basis of this single issue is also both offensive and inaccurate. My relationship with the majority of users I have engaged with on Wikipedia is perfectly good and maybe it's you who need to review your own earlier conduct in this matter and your current prejudicial mode of expression to comply with WP:NPA. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 06:52, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Polls are inherently fair in that they allow the community as a whole to opine and decide an issue, instead of a single admin taking unilateral action. Considering I could have simply blocked you without any input from anyone (that is what admins like myself are granted the tools for), I would consider polling the community to be the ultimate act of fairness, as you aren't subject to the whims or misinterpretations of a single person. The fact that you can't see this is part of the problem. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm getting fed up of the unfounded allegations that Sirjohnperrot is making about various people (myself included), and their continued unwillingness to provide evidence when directly asked to do so. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:08, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Redrose64:User has removed the offending passage. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:23, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I believe, in fairness, that that comment was hyperbole, but given the amount of effort spent expounding on the need for truth and accuracy, the discussion over its removal is ironic, as is the use of hyperbole in the first place --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Redrose64:User has removed the offending passage. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:23, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- The real Sir John Perrot died in the Tower awaiting execution, probably poisoned by his enemies who thought Elizabeth was about to pardon him and feared his retribution. Hope that doesn't happen to me ;( Sirjohnperrot (talk) 23:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've watched many of these (ANI threads) play out over more than a decade here. It may take a day or so before an uninvolved admin decides the conversation here has run it's course and looks over the evidence to make a decision, but unless you make a some serious course changes fast, you're inability to play and work well with others has pretty much sealed your fate. Which will be exile, not poison. Instead of making statements like the one above, you should probably put on a contrite face, apologize to a few people, and endeavor to work within policies and collaboratively, like everyone else here. If literally everyone you encounter here tells you you are doing it wrong, you may want to take the advice on board and consider there may be something wrong with how you do things. Heiro 23:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have acknowleged my shortcomings in this from the start and collaborate happily most of the time. It's an education to read the comments about me on here - as though trying to confront what I regard as an important problem with two users somehow cancels out all the good relationships with the others and brands me as a hopeless case. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 06:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- As a neutral observer, I damn sure don't expect Elizabeth to swoop in and save your bacon, it's going to take a modern equivalent of Dee or higher this time. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- When I got the email note that the Incredible Hulk was on the case there was a brief moment of hope - alas it seems you won't be turning green on my account :( Sirjohnperrot (talk) 06:59, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Doubly doubtful, little dude, this account falsely represents the orange Hulkster. Best I can do is advise you train, eat your vitamins, say your prayers and believe in yourself. Then jump out of that tower and flap your pythons as fast as you can, I hear footsteps! InedibleHulk (talk) 07:48, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Quite seriously, this is all rather upsetting really. Laugharne is our favourite place and while idly browsing its Wikipedia’s article a couple of weeks ago I noticed that Sir John Perrot, it's most famous resident for 300 years until Dylan Thomas turned up, didn't feature on the town’s Notable People list. I ventured to add him - my last attempted edit was two years ago and like that one it was immediately deleted - which got me here. My faculties must be in steep decline because I did actually manage a successful contribution in 2006 - maybe it was easier then.
- My recent Wiki experience was really very positive until now, lots of quality chat with knowledgeable people who are also interested in Welsh medieval history and then onto discussions about poetry, wiki policies on sourcing, copyrights, image formatting and many other topics. It really is puzzling that my attempt to prevent a dishonest claim being repeated through a request to Oversight - and on their recommendation transferred to ANI for action - should result in this profoundly demeaning and unjustified proposal and process. The disconnected bits of various unedifying exchanges I was obliged to cobble together as 'diffs' are now being used to determine "what sanctions I deserve" when only relevant to my report. They are completely unrepresentative of my conduct as an editor when taken out of their wider context but are being used illegitimately as a basis for most the comments made here. Sirjohnperrot (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- May I ask if the final verdict of this poll translates into the action proposed or are there further stages in the process? Sirjohnperrot (talk) 11:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- No further stages. The result here, will be implemented. GoodDay (talk) 13:29, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Well the can appeal after the block is in place, but they will need a much (much!) better case about their actions then they have made here.Slatersteven (talk) 13:33, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- This is the last step. Either a consensus opposes and you walk away, or you are blocked indefinitely and may appeal only to the community at large, or the Arbitration Committee, typically after at least a 6 month break. No single admin can overturn a community block. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Doubly doubtful, little dude, this account falsely represents the orange Hulkster. Best I can do is advise you train, eat your vitamins, say your prayers and believe in yourself. Then jump out of that tower and flap your pythons as fast as you can, I hear footsteps! InedibleHulk (talk) 07:48, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- When I got the email note that the Incredible Hulk was on the case there was a brief moment of hope - alas it seems you won't be turning green on my account :( Sirjohnperrot (talk) 06:59, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've watched many of these (ANI threads) play out over more than a decade here. It may take a day or so before an uninvolved admin decides the conversation here has run it's course and looks over the evidence to make a decision, but unless you make a some serious course changes fast, you're inability to play and work well with others has pretty much sealed your fate. Which will be exile, not poison. Instead of making statements like the one above, you should probably put on a contrite face, apologize to a few people, and endeavor to work within policies and collaboratively, like everyone else here. If literally everyone you encounter here tells you you are doing it wrong, you may want to take the advice on board and consider there may be something wrong with how you do things. Heiro 23:51, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
They have agreed to a mentor [[108]], any volunteers?Slatersteven (talk) 13:54, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
They also have asked to change their user name to Horatius_At_The Bridge... No I do not think they get it.Slatersteven (talk) 14:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- 9sigh) As a global renamer, I must sadly inform you that renaming is not open to those "under a cloud". --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:14, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I was wondering about that.Slatersteven (talk) 14:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I hope he's not gotten the idea that changing his name, will somehow avoid his getting banned. It's the individual behind the username that being considered for a ban, not just the username itself. GoodDay (talk) 14:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have informed them already that is the case.Slatersteven (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- My request for a Username change has nothing to do with this at all. To make progress I will withdraw my report about Snowded. Please advise any action I should take to confirm this and then you can proceed with your deliberations secure in the knowledge that I'm going nowhere. If you wish it I've said before and I repeat that I'm very happy to have a mentor to help steer me through the Wiki shoals and if someone is prepared to take me on I'll be most grateful. I think we would all welcome a speedy resolution of this sorry saga so please press on and do your duty asap Sirjohnperrot (talk) 15:03, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Sirjohnperrot: Withdrawal, at this point, will not close this thread, per WP: BOOMERANG. You cannot simply withdraw to avoid sanctions. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 15:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't for a moment think or suggest it would, it was simply a gesture of goodwill to help simplify the issues here, clarify that I have never been resistant to mentoring if you think that should be offered and to expedite this process if that is possible.Sirjohnperrot (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't taken part in the above poll for obvious reasons but I'd support the idea of a one week ban with the right to appeal. I think there has to be some evidence of understanding of why it has got to this stage and a willingness to read, work on understanding and then apply policy. Throught this saga links have been given but apparently ignored. If no one else is willing and/or Sirjohnperrot can't find someone then I'd be willing to take on the mentor role - although I understand that might not be welcome. That would including helping them on or off line understand what will be important in the appeal. The reason I placed the two warnings (3rr and then NPA) was I could see a block coming if a monitoring admin saw the behaviour and hoped some reflection would be triggered. As a community I think mentoring "difficult" editors is something we need to think about and develop an appraoch for. I've had mixed success in a few attempts but we need editors like this who are prepared to do the detailed work. -----Snowded TALK 05:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Sirjohnperrot: The issue for many is not do we think it would help, do you?Slatersteven (talk) 09:50, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think it would, as my old mentor Sir Karl Popper used to say "experience is what we call our mistakes" and I'm clearly very experienced on here ;) Sirjohnperrot (talk) 10:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I didn't for a moment think or suggest it would, it was simply a gesture of goodwill to help simplify the issues here, clarify that I have never been resistant to mentoring if you think that should be offered and to expedite this process if that is possible.Sirjohnperrot (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Sirjohnperrot: Withdrawal, at this point, will not close this thread, per WP: BOOMERANG. You cannot simply withdraw to avoid sanctions. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 15:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- My request for a Username change has nothing to do with this at all. To make progress I will withdraw my report about Snowded. Please advise any action I should take to confirm this and then you can proceed with your deliberations secure in the knowledge that I'm going nowhere. If you wish it I've said before and I repeat that I'm very happy to have a mentor to help steer me through the Wiki shoals and if someone is prepared to take me on I'll be most grateful. I think we would all welcome a speedy resolution of this sorry saga so please press on and do your duty asap Sirjohnperrot (talk) 15:03, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have informed them already that is the case.Slatersteven (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I hope he's not gotten the idea that changing his name, will somehow avoid his getting banned. It's the individual behind the username that being considered for a ban, not just the username itself. GoodDay (talk) 14:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I was wondering about that.Slatersteven (talk) 14:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- You have only had an account for a year, with less than 200 edits (90% in the last month). No I do not think you are very experienced.11:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Irony doesn't appear to be your strong suit friend. There are clearly some on here who think Wikipedia would be improved if I was just escorted off the premises. To them I say that I believe this platform is a powerful force for good and its aims are irreproachable. I would do nothing to undermine those values and my contributions are intended solely to further them.Sirjohnperrot (talk) 11:26, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- That was me, I left out a tiled by mistake. And no irony is not often to pick up, in certain circumstances.Slatersteven (talk) 11:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- You just reminded me of the time Obi wan asks Yoda : "are we going the right way?" and he answers: "off course, we are"
Sirjohnperrot (talk) 11:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC) - I liked it, Sirjohnperrot. Thanks for that.
El_C 11:33, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- I liked it, Sirjohnperrot. Thanks for that.
- You just reminded me of the time Obi wan asks Yoda : "are we going the right way?" and he answers: "off course, we are"
- That was me, I left out a tiled by mistake. And no irony is not often to pick up, in certain circumstances.Slatersteven (talk) 11:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
A question, what other platforms would be affected by a Wikipedia block?Slatersteven (talk) 13:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Note this is a more specific technical question, if a block can remove a users ability to use their user name elsewhere that is rather significant, and should affect our willingness to stop people being able to access functionality that is nothing to do with us. I raised it here as until raised by Sirjohnperrot I was not aware it might even be an issue.Slatersteven (talk) 17:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- The block is isolated to the English Wikipedia, we don't have the authority to block on any other Wiki. That means unless someone is globally blocked (something we can't do here), they can edit at Commons, Simple, German or any other language Wiki under Wikimedia. That is how community blocks have always worked; limited to the Wiki in which it was enforced. Technically, they can go the German Wikipedia and ask for the name change there, and be granted the change. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:12, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
- Alas. This is one of the drawbacks to globalization. Like a username acceptable on de.wiki might not be here. And then there is confusion and other problems because of the globalness of accounts As a global renamer (were I not already involved through this discussion), I would decline based on this still being up in the air. We have discussed this sort of thing amongst ourselves in the past, and the consensus has been to decline. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 07:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Request to close
Can we agree to close this on the SilkTork variation? Block but with the right to appeal after 7 days? If we leave access to the talk page then I can work with Sirjohnperrot on the appeal as he has accepted mentorship. That way the workings will be visible to whoever reviews the appeal if/when it is made-----Snowded TALK 03:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- If users think this will work fine, go for it.Slatersteven (talk) 10:38, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- There actually isn't a consensus for SilkTork's idea outright, although I won't protest if that is what the closer decides to do. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:01, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Just a suggestion, if the editor has agreed to a mentor and will agree to a voluntary one week ban from editing main article space then perhaps any sanction could be withdrawn for a week to see how it works? WP:IAR and WP:ROPE spring to mind, if he continues as before there appears to be a community sanction to block them if they return to the same ways. It seems that a head of steam has built up over this, which is a shame since they seem on the face of it to have stepped back. Does it matter if we wait a week? WCMemail 12:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Canvassing and threatened to have an admin called on me
| Self-requested block applied. El_C 15:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have been told I was canvassing by Lil-unique1 and have been threatened by MaranoFan that he would bring admin if I kept creating “Finneas stubs”. This has happened in the past by different users and has made me very stressed. It seems like they want me banned, so if an admin can please do that request and ban this account, because I was canvassing and creating article that someone doesn’t like. That would be very helpful. The users can be happy and I can finally stop stressing over these incidents and move on with my life... DarklyShadows (talk) 14:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- DarklyShadows, if editing Wikipedia is causing you distress, you should stop. I would be willing to block you for any duration you wish, up to and including indefinitely. El_C 14:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please read the notice at the top of ANI. You should leave ANI notices on both those editors' talk pages to notify them of this discussion. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 14:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C Indefinitely would be great. It seems these users want me gone and it’s making me very worried and stressed. Thanks a lot. DarklyShadows (talk) 14:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Please revdel edit summary containing offensive, ableist personal attack from User:John Maynard Friedman
| User blocked indef in line with egregious ableist bullying. ~Swarm~{sting} 05:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC) Above is a little strong. Both sides agree now that there was a highly unfortunate coincidence in the choice of words. An apology has been made and accepted, and the block lifted. (That's JMF's block; a ham-handed kibbitzer who managed to make a bad situation much worse remains blocked.) EEng 15:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please revdel the edit summary only, which contains an ableist personal attack from User:John Maynard Friedman, in direct contravention to Wikipedia:No personal attacks § What is considered to be a personal attack?Nᵒ1, under WP:CRDNᵒˢ2 & 3.
I did not see this slur when I wrote out Special:PermaLink/966743960 (see very bottom of page), only later did I see it in the edit summary. That edit summarizes the controversy before I discovered this edit summary.
An image of me showing my height (File:Fredrick Brennan selfie.jpg) is on my user page. My user page also links to the article here about me which features the same image in the first sentence, as well as a link to a 12 May 2020 ANI discussion proving it's me. I am 26 years old. I am not a teenager and certainly no longer a boy. I have osteogenesis imperfecta which caused my congenital, permanent dwarfism.
[L]ittle boy
, along with little man
, is most commonly directed at me by QAnon people and 8chan users I've angered by campaigning for 8chan to be closed. In fact, they usually use the softer little man
, but John Maynard Friedman has here gone for the harshest form of this insult, implying I'm immature due to being a dwarf. Other editors should get the message that this will not be tolerated. It is a clear-cut personal attack. Amazingly, he has the chutzpah to declare my good faith attempt at an olive branch through humor a "provocation", and then decides to call a dwarf a little boy
. If my olive branch and improving Wiktionary, which I would have done anyway, is a personal attack, I'll accept chastisement or sanction. But I will not accept editors mocking my disability, and he should immediately apologize.
I cannot request an apology from him as it could be seen as Wikipedia:Harassment because he requested a voluntary WP:IBAN. And, I don't think just an apology is enough. The community should know about this behavior. Psiĥedelisto (talk • contribs) please always ping! 23:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- As EEng said, there are better ways to sort this out than going to ANI. MiasmaEternalTALK 00:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have revdeleted the offending edit summary. We aim to be inclusive to the utmost on Wikipedia. Any mocking of one's disability will be responded to most harshly. That said, I can't tell if that was the intent here, but I will warn the user against doing so in no uncertain terms. Are you sure you want this report to remain visible, Psiĥedelisto? El_C 00:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'd like to request at least a cursory look at whether there's a boomerang concerning this editor's consistent battleground mentality and disruptive editing at template:Char and its associated TFD. There seems to be a pretty consistent WP:NOT HERE and WP:DE pattern in this user's refusal to edit collaboratively. A couple days ago, it looked like he might be turning over a new leaf by engaging a bit with User:Spitzak, but that seems to have been wishful thinking on my part when I held off on going to ANEW. VanIsaacWScont 01:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, I think we should block Friedman until we get a satisfactory answer. Drmies (talk) 01:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Already done. El_C 01:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC) - El_C, thank you. User:John Maynard Friedman, this is a serious matter. Drmies (talk) 01:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've also redacted Vanisaac assertion that Psiĥedelisto is using his disability to game the system. Unbelievable. The heartlessness. I'm seriously weighing blocking them, as well. El_C 01:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Upon further consideration, I have blocked Vanisaac for one week. Sorry, but I'm pretty disgusted. El_C 01:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, thank you. User:John Maynard Friedman, this is a serious matter. Drmies (talk) 01:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
What happened here? In no one's defense, and in everyone's offense, that talk page discussion went badly in a few ways (even by the OP), and this report spiraled out of control quickly. I think this jumped the shark when emotions over took logic. This thread is a textbook example of worst-case-scenario. Why couldn't this have been talked out first? I think we have some people from different backgrounds interacting here without considering the other person's background. Lots of good people involved here. I purposely am using the word "people" here instead of "editors". Can everyone take a second look here? I think this can be worked out better. Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 04:28, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Uh, anything concrete beyond a general chastisement to everyone? I'll repeat what Drmies said: this is a serious matter. I'm not sure you're fully appreciating that. El_C 04:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- But from what I can tell from digging thru the diffs and talk pages, was it really a conscious attack on the OP's disability? I'm asking for serious proof. The OP seemed to be getting under a few people's skin at the template talk. I agree with revdelling the edit summary, but where can it be shown that JMK was attacking based on disability? I thought they were attacking based on talk page interactions. Am I missing something? I'm not trying to downplay this, but can't this be resolved with some discussion? Where are the diffs showing they were clearing trying to hurt the OP based on their knowledge of the disability? Was this just a case of bad choice of words? Where's the diffs? Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 04:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The diff is at the top of the report, entitled: "Diff." Clarifications from John Maynard Friedman have been sought. No need for redundancy, Bison X. El_C 05:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The diff was
I will not descend to your level. I am ignoring everything you write. I choose not to debate with you or engage with you in any way. The reasons will be obvious to everyone except you. My choice is to work with editors who aim for consensus by calm and reasoned discussion and do not need to resort to personal attacks or believe that they can just impose their will irrespective of discussion in progress.
and their edit summary was apparently "little boy", right? The OP frustrated the hell out of JMK, right? Where is it acknowledged they knew the latitude of what the hell they were saying? Is there a history here you're not letting on about? Are these blocks really appropriate? Psiĥedelisto was only asking for revdel of the edit summary. Can I ask @Psiĥedelisto: to respond here? I think there might be a way to work thru this. However, if JMK has previously acknowledged their disability, then I am completely off base here, I admit. But is that the case? Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 05:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC)- Your insensitivity has been noted. Psiĥedelisto, please do not feel obliged to respond to that. Please move along, Bison X. You are not helping. El_C 05:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The diff was
- The diff is at the top of the report, entitled: "Diff." Clarifications from John Maynard Friedman have been sought. No need for redundancy, Bison X. El_C 05:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- But from what I can tell from digging thru the diffs and talk pages, was it really a conscious attack on the OP's disability? I'm asking for serious proof. The OP seemed to be getting under a few people's skin at the template talk. I agree with revdelling the edit summary, but where can it be shown that JMK was attacking based on disability? I thought they were attacking based on talk page interactions. Am I missing something? I'm not trying to downplay this, but can't this be resolved with some discussion? Where are the diffs showing they were clearing trying to hurt the OP based on their knowledge of the disability? Was this just a case of bad choice of words? Where's the diffs? Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 04:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- This footnote is not intended as a contribution or material comment on the closed discussion above. However as my user-name has been put on the record with motives attributed to me, I feel that I should be allowed a closing comment. (If this is not allowed, then I will let it go). Had it not all happened in the middle of the night UK time, I would have rushed to correct a horrible misunderstanding. I have never encountered the complainant before this week, I know nothing about their personal circumstances and had no reason to go poking about. I have apologised at my talk page for an unintentional but very real insult.--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:44, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
USER: Mr.User200 - keeps his posting his personal conclusions and counts under military/aviation articles.
| Not a proper report. "Moving in the shadows" — really? Please don't say things like that. OP warned to self-correct. El_C 15:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
his most recent hits are:
List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen
but I am very sure he is everywhere, moving in the shadows and driving his personal POV as given facts. Give him a warning, block, I don't know... Just do something, please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vnkd (talk • contribs)
- Just in case, use talk page for dispute resolution. Also the edit you reverted was just stick to the Source ( Literal from the RS "The airstrikes late Saturday on the al-Waitya airbase in the desert southwestern of Tripoli destroyed military equipment recently brought in by Turkey, including air-defense systems, according to officials in Tripoli. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media", the Washington Post. Your errasing of information at List of aviation incidents is pure blanking of content because you dont like it. And that edit is vandalism or DONTLIKEIT at least. You have errased that table over 8 timed in a years other users have reverted your blancking including me. Other pages have a final table too. See the Shotdown template artivles.Mr.User200 (talk) 15:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
My talk page.
Can an admin sort out this weirdness that seems to be attacking my talk page. Cheers. Govvy (talk) 15:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I just indef'd the Commander in Chief. RickinBaltimore (talk) 15:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Not even the actual real Donald Trump would write English as garbled as this. Now about those tax returns.... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 16:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Covfefe? -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:15, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- lol, I could restore the content for a laugh! heh. Govvy (talk) 16:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- If this were the real Trump he wouldn't be making a Wikipedia account to "make things right", he'd tweet something like: "Terrible! The failing Fake News Pedia isn't talking about how we are REBUILDING OUR ECONOMY. Did Hillary pay them off? Or was it China? JOBS!" ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 16:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Lol, I only just noticed this thread. I came across this user via Special:Log/newusers. Adam9007 (talk) 16:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- heh, I decided to added it to bottom of User:Govvy for a laugh, feel free to write funny stuff below it if you want. Govvy (talk) 16:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I missed my joke earlier. I impeached the Commander in Chief. RickinBaltimore (talk) 16:36, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Possible breach of edit restrictions
Das osmnezz is subject to editing restrictions not allowing them to create BLPs directly into article space- the notice for it is at the top of their talkpage. However, they created List of foreign English Non-League players, a list consisting almost entirely of living people. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons says that "BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Wikipedia, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, lists, article titles and drafts.", therefore I believe this list is a BLP according to that page. Thus, according to that definition of BLP, Das osmnezz has broken their edit restrictions. Pinging Ad Orientem as the admin who enforced these edit restrictions in 2017. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Didn't notice that. However, they first created this article in article space in February 2019, which would still be a violation. And if this is the standard of articles they're going to be producing, then maybe the restrictions were correct to be in place. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:36, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- If that's the case then I'd guess this article was known to Ad Orientem when they decided to unban. But let's see what AO says about it. Reyk YO! 14:42, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hmmm. A few points. I have provisionally lifted the editing restrictions based on a gradual improvement in their article creation. To date he has created over 700 articles. Most of those are stubs but clearly do pass GNG and cleared AfC. I was not aware of this list, but the BLP and general quality concerns raised appear valid to me. Regards the breach of editing restrictions; it's possible he may not have understood that the list was covered in those restrictions (I don't think English is their first language). In any event the breach is from a year and a half ago, so I am inclined to treat this as stale sans evidence that it is part of a pattern of behavior. As far as I can tell he was pretty good about abiding by the restrictions and I am aware of only one other breach, which was minor and treated as a no harm no foul event. Having said this, I am not at all impressed by this list and may chime in at the AfD. I would very much like Das osmnezz to join us here, acknowledge the concerns raised above and assure us that this is not going to be the sort of thing we can expect in the future. Lastly, I would caution Das osmnezz, formally, that editing restrictions can be reinstated if sloppy editing and/or questionable page creation starts to become a recurring problem. We all make mistakes and even experienced editors have had pages they created deleted. But I don't want to see this becoming a pattern. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping @Sulfurboy:... -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hmmm. A few points. I have provisionally lifted the editing restrictions based on a gradual improvement in their article creation. To date he has created over 700 articles. Most of those are stubs but clearly do pass GNG and cleared AfC. I was not aware of this list, but the BLP and general quality concerns raised appear valid to me. Regards the breach of editing restrictions; it's possible he may not have understood that the list was covered in those restrictions (I don't think English is their first language). In any event the breach is from a year and a half ago, so I am inclined to treat this as stale sans evidence that it is part of a pattern of behavior. As far as I can tell he was pretty good about abiding by the restrictions and I am aware of only one other breach, which was minor and treated as a no harm no foul event. Having said this, I am not at all impressed by this list and may chime in at the AfD. I would very much like Das osmnezz to join us here, acknowledge the concerns raised above and assure us that this is not going to be the sort of thing we can expect in the future. Lastly, I would caution Das osmnezz, formally, that editing restrictions can be reinstated if sloppy editing and/or questionable page creation starts to become a recurring problem. We all make mistakes and even experienced editors have had pages they created deleted. But I don't want to see this becoming a pattern. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- This is really stupid. That was created in mainspace back in 2019, probably accidentally, and moved back to mainspace on 3 July. There's a reasonable argument that the article wasn't directly about a BLP, and it's so far back that it's not an urgent issue. This should have been dealt with back then, but I don't support any further sanctions. SportingFlyer T·C 20:18, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I second what SportingFlyer states. AO pinged me to this as I recommended to them that the restrictions on Das be lifted. I have reviewed a few dozen of their articles via the AfC process and all passed notability guidelines with flying colors. Trying to nitpick on some year and a half old list article is a case of WP:DEADHORSE Sulfurboy (talk) 21:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't see any purpose in sanction here. It might be a technical violation, but 1. it is very old, 2. it is possible that they didn't see this as being covered by the restriction because it wasn't an article on any individual. Any sanction at this late of date, under these circumstances, would be punitive rather than preventive. In a nutshell, if this is the worst he did while under the restriction, we should overlook it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:34, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- My 2p - one, this is not an "old" violation, he moved the page into mainspace less than a week ago. Two, and more importantly, we are missing the bigger issue here - Das osmnezz's lack of understanding and competence. I have seen a large number of their creations at AFC, some are non-notable, some are notable but in incredibly poor condition. It's such hard work tidying up after this editor. GiantSnowman 10:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Repeated insults by Kyteto and problem with an admin
- Kyteto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
A few days ago I got in a minor revert war with the user User:Kyteto in the article BDC Aero Industrie over my removal of a few badly sourced trivial paragraphs. Which he and another user claimed I had removed in a bad faith edit to intentionally make the article seem less notable by removing the sources that the content was attached to. Which simply wasn't factual. When I messaged Kyteto on his talk to work things out he proceeded to insult and attack me in message after message. Including calling me arrogant and hypocritical multiple times (as can be seen in his changeset comments here, and here at the end of his comment). Even after I said I was in the wrong, that I didn't care if the sources that I had removed were restored or retained, and asked him not to insult me anymore.
I probably would have been fine with just letting things go. Except an admin named User:El C got involved, put the whole thing on me by claiming I was the one casting aspersions etc etc and said Kyteto had the right to comment as he saw fit because he's a long standing member. I assume the "comments" that were OK for Kyteto to make related to the insults, because those were the only things he said that I ever took issue with. I'm not really satisfied with the outcome. Especially an admin "resolving" things by saying it's cool that Kyteto called me an arrogant hypocrite repeatedly, among other things, because he's been here a while. I assume the WP:PA still applies to long standing members. If so, then he should be capable for violating it and User:El C shouldn't be telling people it's OK for long standing members to insult them. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Links to the personal attacks are needed. What El_C said may have been misrepresented, as they did not OK personal attacks. Also, I think the removal of sources when such removal decreases the likelihood of an WP:AfD candidate being seen as notable is a poor idea. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deepfriedokra, can you clarify what you meant when saying: “Also, I think the removal sources when such removal decreases...”? It’s a bit ungrammatical. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 11:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deepfriedokra, I thought I provided links to his talk page comments in the first paragraph. At the end of the third line. In his changeset comments he called my approach to this hypocritical twice in the first one and in the second one at the end he said "it comes off as hypocritical, in my opinion - the fact that you compound that with the justification of "bad edits" also comes off as arrogant, in my opinion." I'm pretty sure he said it in other places to, but even he didn't that's more then enough IMO. Especially since I asked him to stop after the first time.
- I agree removing the sources might have been a poor idea, but I wasn't thinking about doing the AfD at that point and I said Kyteto could restore them if he wanted when I realized it probably wasn't the best thing to do. Last time I checked though articles can be edited during AfDs anyway and I assume that would include removing badly sourced content. Either way, it doesn't warrant the personal attacks. Although, I removed them before I decided to do one. I don't think I misrepresented what El_C said. There might not have been an outright OK of the personal attacks, but they weren't addressed at all. Which seems like tacit approval to me. Especially since it was combined with the statement that Kyteto could say whatever he wants. Otherwise, El_C should have explicitly said otherwise. He/she was fine calling me out for casting aspersions, when I wasn't the one calling anyone arrogant. So, if he/she had a problem with Kyteto doing it there was zero reason not to just say so. BTW, Kyteto also accused me of intentionally trying to hide what I was doing multiple times for some reason and went off about how I was trying to miss-lead people with my changeset comments. Undid revision 966615420 by Robert McClenon (talk)Which made no sense. Really, most of the interaction seemed like an attempted character assassination or something on his part. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- If you don't want to be accused of arrogance and hypocrisy then stop behaving with arrogance and hypocrisy. Kyteto took the time to give a lengthy explanation of how your actions were incorrect without making any personal attack. Read and understand it. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Phil Bridger, that's well and good. Except I said already that I did and said multiple he could restore the sources. I'm not sure what's arrogant or hypocritical about agree with the persons and telling them to do what they want. Even if it was though, there's still a civil way to go about things. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- If you don't want to be accused of arrogance and hypocrisy then stop behaving with arrogance and hypocrisy. Kyteto took the time to give a lengthy explanation of how your actions were incorrect without making any personal attack. Read and understand it. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree removing the sources might have been a poor idea, but I wasn't thinking about doing the AfD at that point and I said Kyteto could restore them if he wanted when I realized it probably wasn't the best thing to do. Last time I checked though articles can be edited during AfDs anyway and I assume that would include removing badly sourced content. Either way, it doesn't warrant the personal attacks. Although, I removed them before I decided to do one. I don't think I misrepresented what El_C said. There might not have been an outright OK of the personal attacks, but they weren't addressed at all. Which seems like tacit approval to me. Especially since it was combined with the statement that Kyteto could say whatever he wants. Otherwise, El_C should have explicitly said otherwise. He/she was fine calling me out for casting aspersions, when I wasn't the one calling anyone arrogant. So, if he/she had a problem with Kyteto doing it there was zero reason not to just say so. BTW, Kyteto also accused me of intentionally trying to hide what I was doing multiple times for some reason and went off about how I was trying to miss-lead people with my changeset comments. Undid revision 966615420 by Robert McClenon (talk)Which made no sense. Really, most of the interaction seemed like an attempted character assassination or something on his part. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I reverted Adamant1 on that article. It's never smart to remove good sources, even if it is trivial, when an article is at AFD. They are smart enough to filter the wheat from the chaff there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Dennis Brown, except like I said I removed the sources before I did the AfD. So, I don't know what your talking about. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- You know exactly what I'm talking about. Removing reliable sources then sending it to AFD is no different than sending it, then removing them. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work around here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:16, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Dennis Brown, except like I said I removed the sources before I did the AfD. So, I don't know what your talking about. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Adamant1: it's a silly thing to edit war over, especially when it's clear that it's an edit-war rather than 3RR (meaning your two reverts would stil be considereed warring). the AfD will see that it all comes out in the wash, one way or another. ——Serial # 12:55, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Adamant1: I think the links provided support the conjecture that you have been casting aspersions. Maybe you're just tetchy today or something, but you are coming across as bellicose. We do edit articles at AfD, BTW. Generally we seek to rescue if possible. As has been noted, removing cites looks like the opposite of WP:BEFORE. If an article is to sink on the shoals of AfD, let her go down with flags flying and brightwork polished. Don't see much here to do of an admin nature-- Block/Protect/Delete --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Deepfriedokra, I never claimed I didn't cast aspersions. Just that it wasn't proportional to or in the same nature as Kyteto's and that he didn't called out for his casting of them while I did. Like I said in my original message I would have been fine letting it go if Ahunt hadn't of came along and chastised me for it without doing the same to Kyteto or saying it was cool for him to do because he's been here awhile. I'm perfectly fine with someone saying my tone could have been better, I'm not fine with me being the only one that gets called out for it though when Kyteto clearly did the same thing. The excuse of long-term membership by El_C wasn't a good way to approach it either. Also, what was bellicose about saying he could restore the sources if he wanted to? He was the one that didn't and continued the argument instead. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Adamant1: I think the links provided support the conjecture that you have been casting aspersions. Maybe you're just tetchy today or something, but you are coming across as bellicose. We do edit articles at AfD, BTW. Generally we seek to rescue if possible. As has been noted, removing cites looks like the opposite of WP:BEFORE. If an article is to sink on the shoals of AfD, let her go down with flags flying and brightwork polished. Don't see much here to do of an admin nature-- Block/Protect/Delete --Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- When referring to Ahunt and Kyteto, Adamant1 wrote:
Re sock puppeting. It doesn't matter if you are "individual people." "Closely connected users may be considered a single user for Wikipedia's purposes if they edit with the same objectives.
So, I warned Adamant1 that those two users are editors in good standing who may edit and comment as they see fit. I also warned him not to WP:HOUND Kyteto, but instead use ANI for any pattern of problems they may identify. This report is not what I had in mind. Needless to say, I stand by that warning, even if I did let Adamant1 have the last word (at length). Which obviously wasn't enough. But that very lengthy discussion on Kyteto's talk page, that clearly needed to end sooner rather than later. El_C 15:25, 7 July 2020 (UTC)- El_C, I have zero problem with you saying Kyteto can edit how he sees fit because he's a long-term member (although I think that's questionable when it comes to edit warring). My problem is with the part that he can "comment" however he wants due to it. Which your not addressing in your message. My original comment about sockpuppeting has nothing to do with it and seems like a whataboutism. I was just explaining to him why I had reverted him and Ahunt in the first place, because at the time I felt like they were working together to slant the AfD in a certain direction. So I'm not sure how it's relevant. It has nothing to do with or justifies him calling me arrogant or hypocritical multiple times . Let alone you not calling him out for doing so. When you where fine calling me out. It's completely ridiculous to act like there's a connection between me explaining myself and him saying I was an arrogant hypocrite, or that there was no reason to say anything to him because of it. It just shows he wasn't willing to accept my explanation and continued badgering me. Which you fully should have said something about. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Adamant1, I'll focus my warnings as I see fit. You are welcome to bring that up to review, which you have done with this report, but I would suggest, again, that you move on from this and take my warning to heart. El_C 19:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- That doesn't seem like a very good way to handle this. I think it's fair to request that you be more balanced and fair in how you focus your warnings and to bring it up when you aren't. Telling me to just move on when I'm bringing up what I think is a legitimate complaint about how you dealt with something is rather muh IMO. Especially since you suggested on Kyteto's talk page that I file complaint if felt like things weren't settled or that otherwise I'd be violating WP:HOUND by continuing it. I can't bring it up for review like you told me to do and also move on from it at the same time. Seriously. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:32, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Adamant1, I don't know what muh is, but this is an encyclopedia, not a court of law. If you're unable to move on from this, that is on you and not to your credit, I challenge. El_C 21:46, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- That doesn't seem like a very good way to handle this. I think it's fair to request that you be more balanced and fair in how you focus your warnings and to bring it up when you aren't. Telling me to just move on when I'm bringing up what I think is a legitimate complaint about how you dealt with something is rather muh IMO. Especially since you suggested on Kyteto's talk page that I file complaint if felt like things weren't settled or that otherwise I'd be violating WP:HOUND by continuing it. I can't bring it up for review like you told me to do and also move on from it at the same time. Seriously. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:32, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- Adamant1, I'll focus my warnings as I see fit. You are welcome to bring that up to review, which you have done with this report, but I would suggest, again, that you move on from this and take my warning to heart. El_C 19:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, I have zero problem with you saying Kyteto can edit how he sees fit because he's a long-term member (although I think that's questionable when it comes to edit warring). My problem is with the part that he can "comment" however he wants due to it. Which your not addressing in your message. My original comment about sockpuppeting has nothing to do with it and seems like a whataboutism. I was just explaining to him why I had reverted him and Ahunt in the first place, because at the time I felt like they were working together to slant the AfD in a certain direction. So I'm not sure how it's relevant. It has nothing to do with or justifies him calling me arrogant or hypocritical multiple times . Let alone you not calling him out for doing so. When you where fine calling me out. It's completely ridiculous to act like there's a connection between me explaining myself and him saying I was an arrogant hypocrite, or that there was no reason to say anything to him because of it. It just shows he wasn't willing to accept my explanation and continued badgering me. Which you fully should have said something about. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I note that despite the original poster's verbosity above we still haven't been given any diffs of personal attacks, rather than valid criticism of edits. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what your talking about. I included the diffs of personal attacks in my first message, at the end of the third line. I'm not sure how I was being verbose either. I thought we were suppose to explain things and people keep miss quoting me, or saying I didn't say things that I did (like with you). So, I felt the need to be more detailed. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)--Adamant1 (talk) 23:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have read the diffs that you provided in your first message and still can't see any personal attacks there. Can you please quote the particular sentence(s) involved which contained personal attacks, rather than criticism of edits? And they were both edits by Kyteto, but you also complained about El_C. How about some diffs for that complaint? Phil Bridger (talk) 06:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Re quotes, for Kyteto
- "You're hear complaining about being reverted several times, but you've done it to me in the same timeframe at more than double the frequency, so it comes off as hypocritical, in my opinion - the fact that you compound that with the justification of "bad edits" also comes off as arrogant."
- "hiding that deletion under the euphemism of 'fixing' is underhanded,"
- "I find it deceptive to be removing the autogenerated Undid revision xxxxxxx by yyyyyy from your edit summaries, as if you're trying to obfuscate your reversion actions from the log,"
- "either your latest version of events is a lie, or your edit summary was, they cannot be both true. False narratives indeed,"
- "you value your own opinions and actions to a higher level than diametrically identical actions being performed by others," "I'm sure you'd be mystified if I suddenly started telling you about the actions of random editors and how their actions should be transposed onto you; in such a circumstance I am certain you'd be unhappy. Again, a double-standard,"
- "my takeaway from this is that your belief is, that when you edit content that's not the same, it 'doesn't count', but when I edit content that's not the same, you're counting it differently? Sounds like a hypocritical approach to me." Etc etc. All that is from only a few messages to.
- With El_C the main thing was him saying "Adamant1, a warning: like Kyteto, Ahunt is an editor is good standing. They are entitled to comment as they see fit. Please do not cast aspersions." When Kyteto was the one casting aspersions as I've quoted him here as doing. Which El_C didn't call him out for. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- These aren't personal attacks, they are criticisms. If you can't handle disagreement or criticism, you're not going to have a good time at Wikipedia. Personal attacks are along the lines of "You are an asshat" or "You're a fucking idiot". Those would be actual attacks. Commenting on your actions is, well, commenting on your actions. There is nothing actionable here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:05, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I fail to see how what he said was "criticisms" or how the distinction matters anyway. WP:PA says personal attacks involve "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence." So, I assume saying things like I was using changesets comments to hide my reverts, that I was lying, and that I have a hypocritical approach to this whole thing would qualify as personal attacks. No guideline anywhere, WP:PA, WP:AGF, or otherwise says bad behavior is just confined to saying someone is a fucking idiot. Him saying I was using changeset comments to hide things isn't just a disagreement either. I'm totally fine with someone disagreeing with me or commenting on my actions. That wasn't all he was doing though. Also, if what he said is just normal stuff that people on Wikipedia have to tolerate I don't see why El_C would have ever called me out for casting aspirations. It's kind of a weird double standard to argue that what Kyteto said was normal criticism that I just deal with, but then to also claim El_C calling me out for casting aspersions was legitimate and the appropriate thing to do. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Adamant1, I'm a lot more sensitive to aspersions about socking than I am about some jabs that are lightly interspersed in a very lengthy discussion thread. Especially when these are borderline, at best. Also, do you not see a problem with the manner in which you engaged this very report? My sincere hope is that you will be able to draw some lessons from this. Please rely more on your critical faculties and introspect. El_C 16:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I fail to see how what he said was "criticisms" or how the distinction matters anyway. WP:PA says personal attacks involve "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence." So, I assume saying things like I was using changesets comments to hide my reverts, that I was lying, and that I have a hypocritical approach to this whole thing would qualify as personal attacks. No guideline anywhere, WP:PA, WP:AGF, or otherwise says bad behavior is just confined to saying someone is a fucking idiot. Him saying I was using changeset comments to hide things isn't just a disagreement either. I'm totally fine with someone disagreeing with me or commenting on my actions. That wasn't all he was doing though. Also, if what he said is just normal stuff that people on Wikipedia have to tolerate I don't see why El_C would have ever called me out for casting aspirations. It's kind of a weird double standard to argue that what Kyteto said was normal criticism that I just deal with, but then to also claim El_C calling me out for casting aspersions was legitimate and the appropriate thing to do. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Re quotes, for Kyteto
- I have read the diffs that you provided in your first message and still can't see any personal attacks there. Can you please quote the particular sentence(s) involved which contained personal attacks, rather than criticism of edits? And they were both edits by Kyteto, but you also complained about El_C. How about some diffs for that complaint? Phil Bridger (talk) 06:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what your talking about. I included the diffs of personal attacks in my first message, at the end of the third line. I'm not sure how I was being verbose either. I thought we were suppose to explain things and people keep miss quoting me, or saying I didn't say things that I did (like with you). So, I felt the need to be more detailed. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)--Adamant1 (talk) 23:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C I wasn't accusing Kyteto of being a socket puppet on his talk page or anywhere else. I was saying that if both of them were reverting me in a concreted way together to try and get me to violate the 3RR rule so they could report me for it that my defense would be them sock puppeting. Which is why I specifically said "I'd be fine making the argument of sock puppeting if" Otherwise, I wouldn't have just let it go after that and reported them for it. Saying "i'd be fine going to the grocery store if I needed groceries" isn't the same as saying "I'm going to the grocery store for groceries." I'm not sure how can say me doing the first one is casting asperations. Let alone that it is at all comparable to him calling me an arrogant hypocrite multiple times. There's no way me saying what I did was was worse then what he said, and if they were equal you still didn't call him out for his part of the arguement and should have. Instead of tacitly approving of it by saying he can say whatever he wants. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, quit
casting aspirations
and just wallow in the mud with the rest of us. Grandpallama (talk) 17:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)- Grandpallama I don't see how it's wallowing in the mud to ask for fair treatment and for people to be treated equally. Anyway, El_C said to take up the issue here if I wasn't satisfied with the outcome. I wasn't, so I did. That's it. Non-constructive and overly critical comments like your's are a big reason why this whole arduous discussion hasn't ended yet. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
this whole arduous discussion hasn't ended yet
Really? I don't think you're reading the "room" correctly. But please, carry on. Grandpallama (talk) 13:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Grandpallama I don't see how it's wallowing in the mud to ask for fair treatment and for people to be treated equally. Anyway, El_C said to take up the issue here if I wasn't satisfied with the outcome. I wasn't, so I did. That's it. Non-constructive and overly critical comments like your's are a big reason why this whole arduous discussion hasn't ended yet. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Aspiration effect in casting: [109] --T*U (talk) 18:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hope this does not turn into Aspiration pneumonia from mud wallowing --Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, quit
- El_C I wasn't accusing Kyteto of being a socket puppet on his talk page or anywhere else. I was saying that if both of them were reverting me in a concreted way together to try and get me to violate the 3RR rule so they could report me for it that my defense would be them sock puppeting. Which is why I specifically said "I'd be fine making the argument of sock puppeting if" Otherwise, I wouldn't have just let it go after that and reported them for it. Saying "i'd be fine going to the grocery store if I needed groceries" isn't the same as saying "I'm going to the grocery store for groceries." I'm not sure how can say me doing the first one is casting asperations. Let alone that it is at all comparable to him calling me an arrogant hypocrite multiple times. There's no way me saying what I did was was worse then what he said, and if they were equal you still didn't call him out for his part of the arguement and should have. Instead of tacitly approving of it by saying he can say whatever he wants. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Belteshazzar
- Belteshazzar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Belteshazzar is an editor with just under 7,000 edits, of which at least 200 relate to Bates method (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) either directly or indirectly. His advocacy of fringe content at that article has been going on for over a year, and his vigorous talk page advocacy for at least four months, including not just WP:FRINGE material but also sources that fail RS (and especially MEDRS), blatant WP:SYN and more. As he himself added to WP:IDHT, "if you obstinately stick with one argument for too long, other editors might then assume that anything else you advocate for is wrong." He is a disruptive presence at that article and shows no sign of dropping the stick. I request that he be topic banned from articles related eyesight. Guy (help!) 16:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, or you can save everyone some time and just AE ban that topic area per WP:ARBPS. I would support. El_C 16:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- We've already discussed taking Belteshazzar to ArbEnf. There's no need for discussion here. --Hipal/Ronz (talk) 17:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- "over a year" is misleading, as I edited very rarely until March of this year.
- Please note that I asked an optometrist for help, which I obviously wouldn't do if I were advocating for the Bates method. (He has not yet responded, probably because he knows of no better sources.)
- Most recently, I simply tried to more accurately reflect an already cited source and sources it cites, which say there is sometimes an improvement of more than two lines in acuity from the initial blur after glasses are removed. That would seem to be more than "slight". Belteshazzar (talk) 17:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- As far as the claim that I advocate for "sources that fail RS (and especially MEDRS), blatant WP:SYN", this is applied quite inconsistently in the current Bates method article. A reference to pseudomyopia is excluded because the source does not quite connect it to the Bates method specifically, whereas other sources cited in the article do not specifically connect the Bates method to things they are cited for. Sources from 1943 and 1957 are used to source a key point about why the Bates method might sometimes seem to work, but a 1952 source by Elwin Marg is rejected insofar as another such point is concerned. Belteshazzar (talk) 15:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I was going to sit on the fence for this one, but with the suggestion[110] that "short-lasting" might not mean "temporary" because of some unspecified "context", I think a line has been crossed. I think it would be good for everybody if Belteshazzar could focus on other areas of the Project than the Bates method. Alexbrn (talk) 17:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Did you see my response here? I do believe the intended meaning was likely a bit different, but I acknowledge that it does indeed appear to say what you think it does, and I certainly won't try to impose my interpretation on the article. Belteshazzar (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The trouble is that in creating pointless discussions, editors' time, the most valuable resource the Project has, is being wasted. Alexbrn (talk) 18:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- If we're going to talk about people's time being wasted, the current article will likely not dissuade readers from wasting their time with the Bates method. If pseudomyopia and "flashes of clear vision" were explained, readers might realize that they or someone they know are not likely to get much more improvement than they already have. "ineffective" at the top is also damaging in this regard, because it might convince such readers that the article authors don't know what they're talking about. Belteshazzar (talk) 18:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The trouble is that in creating pointless discussions, editors' time, the most valuable resource the Project has, is being wasted. Alexbrn (talk) 18:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Did you see my response here? I do believe the intended meaning was likely a bit different, but I acknowledge that it does indeed appear to say what you think it does, and I certainly won't try to impose my interpretation on the article. Belteshazzar (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
NitinMlk
Nitinmlk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Dear Wikipedia admins,a user named NitinMlk, is targeting biography BLP pages in name of caste factor continuously.He belongs to a particular caste 'Jat' himself and is trying to spoil all genuine history articles in pursuit of vandalism. His pattern of spoiling articles is uniform and always targetted against biographies,BLP of all castes of India, expect his own.Almost all times he doesn't even read the references provided and simply modifies all articles and mentions his particular caste in all articles. Respected, admins I urge you to monitor such racist and casteist users like NitinMlk and keep Wikipedia free platform for all well-sourced content.
Thanks & Regards 27.255.238.114 (talk) 22:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- The IP who opened this discussion did not inform NitinMlk of its opening. I have left them a note on their talk page informing them of the thread. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 22:31, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- "He doesn't read the references"? This revert you made of Nitinmlk actually contains no sources at all, as one webcite saying a book exists isn't actually a source, and the other paragraph has no source at all, so unless I hear a good reason why your version is superior, I'm going to revert it as well. Black Kite (talk) 22:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Caste warriors do show up from time to time. There is the ability to give them a warning about discretionary sanctions for South Asian artilces, though I am unsure whether such a warning is reserved for admins to give or whether any editor may give them. It feels like a admin grade warning. Fiddle Faddle 06:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Anyone can add it. It is an alert, not a warning. It does not imply wrongdoing at the point of being issued. - Sitush (talk) 07:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please add it whenever you see a new caste warrior, Fiddle Faddle and others! It's a big help for admins if an alert gets added early. We can only give DS sanctions for disruption that occurred after they got the alert, and it's quite frustrating, I find, to have to first give the alert and then wait for more disruption. (So doesn't the alert ever stop the disruption? Well.. frankly.. not so's you'd notice, no.) Bishonentålk 08:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC).
- The anon's source appears to be this, which was written ca. 200 years ago. It is essentially a primary text. - Sitush (talk) 07:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've blocked the anon for a month. If that was an account, they'd get a NOTHERE block. Bishonen tålk 09:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC).
- First of all, I apologise for the delay. This report was filed after I logged out yesterday, and I came to know about it only a few minutes ago.
- As already explained by Sitush, they only provided an approx. 200-year-old source. Such outdated, non-scholarly works are not considered reliable for history-related details on this project. In fact, there are many modern scholarly sources available for the subject, and I cited one of them in my edit summary. Here is the full quote from that book's latest edition:
Few details about Bhai Mani Singh |
|---|
|
- As far as mentioning caste in a BLP is considered, we have a long-term consensus that caste should be mentioned only if the subject self-identify with it – see here for details. Also, I always read the references properly and provide clear edit summaries for my edits. Rest of the anon's comment is just full of nonsensical claims and personal attacks.
- PS: The anon removed an unsourced detail from the article,[111] after which I posted a welcome template on their page.[112] And that was my only interaction with them before they opened this thread. So I am a bit surprised by this mud-slinging. - NitinMlk (talk) 18:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Wiki Loves Pride: Annual accusations of bias
If others have feedback to offer at Wikipedia_talk:Wiki_Loves_Pride#Bias, by all means. I'm over it. You lost me at 'Wiki Loves Domestic Violence'.
Wiki Loves Pride is an annual campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content across Wikimedia projects, among other goals such as making the editing community more inclusive and working with LGBT-related institutions. I've helped organize this campaign for several years now, and each year I get to read comments about how the campaign does not comply with Wikipedia's neutrality standards, see a stream of disparaging (if not hateful) comments on Wikipedia's Facebook page after sharing anything LGBT/Wiki Loves Pride, and even sometimes receive hateful messages in my email inbox.
If editors have constructive feedback about the campaign, or can think of improvements to project pages so I don't have to read these same comments every year (some sort of banner or FAQ or something?), I invite you to share thoughts on the talk page.
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've hatted that noxious mess per WP:NOTFORUM. Sorry you have to put up with this sort of abusive nonsense - goes with the territory on Wikipedia these days, I'm afraid. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- For edits such as this, this, and the final warning they received, I have blocked Somua35 for this edit. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
@NorthBySouthBaranof, Ian.thomson, and Swarm: See more here. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC) Update: The comment has been removed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:34, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- That user left a message on my page complaining about my description of Somua35's post as if I was addressing him instead. Um, @Ray2556: you sure you want to say it that way? Because that doesn't leave the best implication for you.Ian.thomson (talk) 22:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, upon counting their edits and seeing that just over three-quarters of their activity is complaining about Wiki Loves Pride (half of that before that WP:POINT-edly made lipservice of doing something else), I'm just gonna block them as NOTHERE (not sockpuppetry, even though they stumbled into what I could pretend was a confession). Ian.thomson (talk) 22:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Primal Groudon and OR
- Primal Groudon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User is continuing to add original research to articles despite warnings at Book of Ruth and Book of Joshua (e.g., here and here). How their own analysis of Biblical text constituted OR was explained to them late last year at Talk:Book of Ruth#Original research by multiple other editors. I just dropped a final warning on their talk page, but another attempt was made to add the same text back. (They've also now made a 4th revert at Book of Joshua too as I'm writing this). There are some other indications in their editing history that suggest that they're unwilling or unable to cite sources. It might be time for some sanctions here. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:00, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Now you're lying about the number of reverts and the fact that my edits weren't original research? How despicable. Primal Groudon (talk) 18:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- You've now made 3 at Book of Ruth, and 4 at Book of Joshua. My original post had the wrong one at 4, and I've since corrected that. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- In reality, I'v only made two on each. Primal Groudon (talk) 18:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Here are now the 5 reverts at Book of Joshua: [113], [114], [115], [116], [117] and 3 at Book of Ruth: [118], [119], [120] (not even including the initial edit which was to re-introduce material that you were trying to add to the article several months ago). Insisting that something isn't a revert in an edit summary doesn't make it so.–Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- After a long break, Primal Groudon recently returned to editing Wikipedia. Today they made their first edit after the break. They do appear to be restarting the campaign of original research about Bible topics that they were warned about previously, in December 2019. Unless they agree to stop, I suggest a block for disruptive editing. EdJohnston (talk) 18:30, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked. Some very strange edit summaries from Primal Groudon, claiming their reverts on Book of Joshua aren't violations of 3RR "as this edit isn't a revert". Instead they believe it's "the vandalism that constantly reverts me" that violates 3RR. I'm baffled, but I suppose a highly AGF explanation could be that they don't understand, or have not seen, the definition of a revert: "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert". They don't seem to understand, or know, the "whether in whole or in part" part. And are unwilling to learn — the "How despicable" above is not promising. Anyway, they have now reverted Book of Joshua five times in less than an hour [sic], with those kinds of aggressive and IDHT edit summaries, and are also edit warring to insert original research in Book of Ruth. I have blocked for 48 hours for disruptive editing and edit warring. It's a pretty short block considering the disruption, but then it's their first. Bishonen tålk 19:00, 8 July 2020 (UTC).
- Here are now the 5 reverts at Book of Joshua: [113], [114], [115], [116], [117] and 3 at Book of Ruth: [118], [119], [120] (not even including the initial edit which was to re-introduce material that you were trying to add to the article several months ago). Insisting that something isn't a revert in an edit summary doesn't make it so.–Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- In reality, I'v only made two on each. Primal Groudon (talk) 18:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- You've now made 3 at Book of Ruth, and 4 at Book of Joshua. My original post had the wrong one at 4, and I've since corrected that. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Can someone check out what Groudon did at Talk:List of states by population in 1 CE? I'm not sure whether there was agreement to this redirect and whether it involves a rename. Achar Sva (talk) 22:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC) Although deletion of the mother-article seems an attractive alternative.Achar Sva (talk) 22:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Request to have Mary Kay Letourneau's wikipedia account locked (User:Smmary)
| Globally Locked. Thanks Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:33, 9 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Infamous former school teacher Mary Kay Letourneau had a wikipedia account, Smmary that was used intermittently over the last decade to dispute claims about herself on her article per WP:BLPSELF, most recently just last year. Now that the subject is deceased per recent news coverage, and the fact that the article got over 700,000 views in the past few days can her user and talk pages be permanently protected. Thanks Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Clash Jester
| Was indeffed (non-admin closure) --DannyS712 (talk) 00:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Clash Jester (talk · contribs) is clearly WP:NOTHERE; see the number of warnings on his user page and his ongoing creation of very questionable redirects shown in his deleted CONTRIBS, which came about after their block for pretending to be a famous footballer. At worst a troll who thinks they are cleverer than they are, at best somebody who is CIR/NOTHERE. I suggest an indef block. GiantSnowman 16:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. See their talkpage, redirect mess. Clearly WP:NOTHERE, regardless of whether they are a professional footballer or not. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think we have a CIR issue. Emailed me three times over the rename and unblock. Posted so many times to their talk page I could not accept their request and someone else unblocked during all the edit conflicts. Just too hot to trot. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I did not think too hard about the rename. Gah! t'ink about it. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Based on the input here, and my own review of his live and deleted contribs, I think an indef block for WP:NOTHERE is due. Going to block after this edit. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Spam-only account
| Account is blocked by the admin who reviewed their draft - the type of block is in their discretion. GirthSummit (blether) 14:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Status: Done
- BALA YESU SCHOOL (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
Spam-only account, soft blocked. Change to hard block because it is a spam-only account and username violates policy as promotional. I tried submitting this to WP:AIV, but it got removed by a bot. –User456541 14:43, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- User456541, the account was blocked by the (very experienced) admin who declined their draft article - I trust that Deepfriedokra took the account's contributions into account when deciding on what type of block to apply. GirthSummit (blether) 14:47, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Post close reply on block of BALA YESU SCHOOL--
- Reblocked by Deb as a SPAMU. Which is fine. SPAMU places obstacles to article creation, so I went with SOFTER block and a COI notice. The subject may or may not turn out to be notable. Actually, it would have been better, User456541, to discuss with me before taking the matter to WP:AIV or here. Also, as this concerned an action I took, it would have been nice to have been notified me of this discussion. I also chose SOFTER in an effort to be less bitey. There has been a concern with driving good faith editors away with overly enthusiastic blocks. Yes, a SPAMU block is acceptable under policy. I just did not feel it necessary. That Deb changed it is fine, though. We all have different thresholds and different sensibilities. (I used to only block possible VOA's for a week. A certain other admin kept changing them to INDEF.) ANd I've made it clear over the years that changing an admin action of mine is at the discretion of any other admin. Oh good grief, I just saw the "vandal" label on the template. So much for WP:AGF. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, I see I did not delete the draft. It was tagged by OP. Once again, different sensibilities and threshold. The draft did not meet my threshold for WP:G11. Promotional tones, but I did not see it as "unambiguously promotional". That Deb deleted it is, once again fine. However, I don't see a single errant attempt to create an article as sufficient to brand a new user as a "spam only" account. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I guess we've pretty much given up on explaining how WP works to newbies before blocking them. This is what we do to some kid who dared to make two misguided but good faith edits, with no edits after the first message on their talk page, in draft space, about their school. To be clear, those messages weren't after they continued to edit; they all came after they made their two edits. The hard block was a nice touch. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I shall increase my efforts to welcome and warn. Yes, I know we are all tired, burned out, and sometimes COVID-adled (waves hand). Sometimes the easy thing is not the best thing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:30, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm being too harsh and snarky, sorry. I think I'm less annoyed that you and Deb did what you did, and more annoyed that this seems to be what almost everyone is doing these days to almost all newbies in similar situations. I mean, a rename was obviously needed eventually, and that's the standard template, and there were links to the teahouse, so this all seems like SOP. But if I was a newbie faced with a user talk page like that, after just two good-faith (if misguided) edits, with two different (contradictory) block notices at the bottom, including one that says I have to convince an admin that I'm not a spammer before I'm allowed to create a new username, I'd just throw up my hands and walk away. You don't need to increase your efforts so much as we need to increase our efforts. We have to figure out a way to differentiate between actual spammers, and new editors who don't know any better. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:18, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I shall increase my efforts to welcome and warn. Yes, I know we are all tired, burned out, and sometimes COVID-adled (waves hand). Sometimes the easy thing is not the best thing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 15:30, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's been going on for years and years, Floq. In this instance, declining the draft as completely unsuitable for mainspace is all that was required. The blocks were superfluous. Either this is a kid who doesn't know how WP works, who would be back, or a spammer who has said their piece and departed, not giving two hoots about the block. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to correct this, because it's difficult to argue against an admin saying "I was just following policy, guv" followed by two other admins who say "yes, 'x' was following policy". Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
. So probably it would have been better to just notify them of the user name violation instead of blocking. Will do that more and the other less. And probably need to raise my threshold to creating G11's instead of just promotionally toned editing. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I generally go very easy on G11s in draft space, and reserve it for very serious piss takers. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I am interested in User456541's conduct here, and also their behaviour in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snow and Rock and trying to speedy an article with the rationale "twinkle doesn't wanna tag it". Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- LOL. Took me a moment to parse "twinkle doesn't wanna tag it". I'm not always the brightest bulb, so sometimes I gotta twinkle too, but in a different way. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Notified OP that conversation refocused, which he failed to do for me when he started original thread. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:36, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, that was 'cause it was already at AfD. FWIW, I would have thought A7 as a business/group, but it did assert significance, and did not meet my threshold for WP:G11. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Notified OP that conversation refocused, which he failed to do for me when he started original thread. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:36, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- LOL. Took me a moment to parse "twinkle doesn't wanna tag it". I'm not always the brightest bulb, so sometimes I gotta twinkle too, but in a different way. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
User:User456541
- In January User456541 was warned by TonyBallioni, as a CU, from continuing to make
comments that aren't particularly helpful and are if anything distracting or disruptive to the SPI process
. Praxidicae advised them against templating CU-blocked editors; Primefacwarned them against unnecessary tagging.Okay, that was January. Fast forward to June. - On the 8th, there's a bizarre discussion, between himself and a now-retired editor, whom 456541 had twice attempted to speedy-delete their talk page, and when the retired editor came to 54etc's talk, 54etc accuses them of turning his page "into a Discord DM channel" and threatens to get his page protected so the retired ed. can no longer post.
- On the 16th, they misapply a G11 tag which is swiftly contested. The same day, ST47—yet to receive a reply to their email regarding oversightable (or not) material—is forced to publicly tell 54etc that oversight is
not for routine requests under any of the criteria for speedy deletion
; further, ST47 notes that 54etc requested the oversighting of "Hiiii" under CSD criterion U5 (misuse as webhost). The same day, NJA warned them to take more care in their AIV reports, noting thathe edits were not vandalism
, but COI at most. Shortly after, Atlantic306 [asked them to take more care with their CSD tagging, which was reiterated by Passengerpigeon; the latter also offered adoptioon as a possibility. This was accepted; but has it stalled since the end of last month? - On June 22, Dreamy Jazz declined a G5, and the following day, Jogurney declined an A7.
- June 25th, and Praxidicae again warns 54etc that he is continually making the same mistakes that he has already been warned about; her reply is a slightly bald and less than reassuringly unsigned "OK" four minutes later.
- Last but not least, on 7 July, Premeditated Chaosreiterated previous concerns:
Please, stop tagging things for speedy deletion until you are more experienced - the amount of people pointing out issues with your speedy deletion tagging on this talk page is really concerning reiterated previous warnings
.I say nothing about the curious WP:ENGVAR instruction at the top of their talk page, but having been warned about misdirecting their actions into adminesque-areas in January, that they are still repeatedly making the same mistakes in spite of multiple warnings weeks on end, leads me, unfortunately, to suspect that they're not really listening; if they are, there's little evidence of it. (First things first, they could reduce the amount time (currently over 50%) that they spend on user/talk pages perhaps.) ——Serial # 12:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe I should take a wikibreak to get more familiar with policy. –User456541 12:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm also trying to improve, because I can now spot G11 and U5 without any problem. –User456541 13:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- "I should take a wikibreak" as a response to all of these very valid concerns is not doing you any favors. Rarely, if ever does this work for editors who do this. We call that diva quitting and avoiding sanctions. You need to address each issue and commit by action to not continuing this. Praxidicae (talk) 13:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm also trying to improve, because I can now spot G11 and U5 without any problem. –User456541 13:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Bloody Hell. All I wanted was for them to understand the need to discuss with other users before posting to ANI and to notify them on doing so. Note Britishism --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
RE: "can now spot G11 ... without any problem" Well, no. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Proposal TBAN(s) User:User456541
These can be implemented on their return. Due to the serious WP:BITE concerns, User:User456541 should not CSD tag anything, particularly WP:G11 or WP:U5 and should not request WP:UAA blocks. User:User456541 needs to leave other user's user space alone. Will definitely need to discuss with any user before going to any noticeboard. User:User456541 should restrict themselves to article improvement. There's enough work to be done here to last a lifetime-- Wikipedia:Community_portal (Feel free to add if needed.)
- (Amending to add recent changes patrolling. Not convinced they have the experience for that. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC))
- Proposer support --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support the Britisher^^^ (see you in Leicester Square after the war, old chap!); joking aside, I wonder if a TBan from [[WP: project space might (as well as the userspace restriction) be easier to follow. while having the same effect. ——Serial # 14:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support I see that user456541 has got a case of ANI Flu and is carrying on doing recent changes patrolling, hoping this thread will go away. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 16:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's odd; I thought they were on Wikibreak... ——Serial # 16:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's good. I'd recommended constructive editing in article space. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Gah. Not good. They need to not try to correct other people's editing now. Left 'em a note. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333: They respond above. But like any wikiholic, they went on a "wikibreak" that did not last very long. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 17:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's odd; I thought they were on Wikibreak... ——Serial # 16:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. It's not just BITE concerns. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#8 years-undetected hoax article, where the user tagged Battle of Ceber for speedy deletion as a hoax and it actually got deleted (spoiler alert: it's not a hoax). I don't doubt their good intentions, but the execution is hasty and destructive. For their sake, they need to be TBANned from CSD, lest they wind up blocked when they return. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Personal attack, disruptive edits, and battleground behavior by User:LordAgincourt
The reported user was blocked for disruptive editing and personal attack on 25 June and 27 June.[121] I warned this user for his edits on Ganja, Azerbaijan and he used personal attack in his reply.[122] See how he replied to another editor that reverted his edits.[123][124] This case is a WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:NOTHERE because it seems LordAgincourt refuses to follow WP rules and guidelines even after 2x block. Also see how he disrupted talk pages; e.g. deleting other editors' comments[125] and troll stuff like this.[126] --Wario-Man (talk) 05:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
You can clearly see im contributing constructive edits to help improve an artticle. It is not vandalism. It is not trolling. It os not a violation. I was already blocked for deleting a dead talk page which seems excessive. My edit was sourced from an E.I article on Ganzak. Did you bother to look it up? You seemed to attack me on my talk page saying something that doesnt appear to be true. The edit was xlarifying a contradiction in the article. And you want to block me for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by LordAgincourt (talk • contribs) 05:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Religious POV pushing and personal attacks
| Sanjoydey33 is blocked for 1 week for making personal attacks and disruptive editing by Bishonen (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 06:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Sanjoydey33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User appears to be pushing a narrative suggesting that events from Hindu mythology were historical. During the last week alone, they twice removed or replaced the word "mythology" in section titles which discuss Hindu gods.[127][128] In the second case, they justified their actions by directly stating that it was due to their personal belief that a medieval chronicle with heavy mythological elements was a "true history". In a later discussion with me, they justified the removal of sourced content in another article because they saw it as contradicting two-thousand-year-old religious texts and mythological epics.[129] When I said how problematic such a rational was,[130] they launched a series of personal attacks against me, accusing me of "Hinduphobia" and having an "Islamic supremacist agenda".[131]
Note that I have twice warned them that their actions constituted a potential violation of WP:RNPOV,[132][133] though this has apparently been ignored.
Alivardi(talk) 18:25, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Accusations of "Hinduphobia" and "Islamic supremacist agenda" over editing disagreements are completely unacceptable, and so is treating ancient texts as "true history". Unfortunately the user has not received a discretionary sanctions alert since 2018, or I would have considered a lengthy topic ban. As it is, I've blocked them for a week. (And given them a DS alert for India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.) Bishonen tålk 19:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC).
Kalpathyram's legal threats against മയലാം മല്ലു
| BLOCKED | |
| for making legal threats by Yamla (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 06:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Kalpathyram is making legal threats against മയലാം മല്ലു here. ◊PRAHLADbalaji (M•T•A•C) This message was left at 19:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- You forgot to notify them of this discussion. I have done so. I have also blocked under WP:NLT. --Yamla (talk) 19:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Kadasa12
Will someone please block Kadasa12 (talk · contribs) for WP:NPA on my talk page and elsewhere. If you look at their talk, you'll see mention of at least two IPs they appear also to be using. - Sitush (talk) 06:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sitush (talk) 07:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Repeated reversions by Israell
| Partial bloc one week. It looks like you accidentally posted this here instead of at AN3. No matter. El_C 13:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Disclaimer: I have been found guilty of edit warring on this page and am currently under a ban, so I fully acknowledge that (along with another user User:TruthGuardians). However another user on the page is guilty of edit warring as of this morning, and as per the sanctions on this topic, such behaviour is to be reported here.
Page: FBI files on Michael Jackson (edit talk history links watch logs)
User being reported: Israell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Previous version reverted to: Special:Diff/966884951
Diffs of the user's reverts:
Diff of attempt to resolve dispute on article talk page: Special:Diff/966974522
Comments:
There is a wider issue this article being used to push an agenda (see above and Special:Diff/966884626). That conversation is ongoing. However attempts to bring other Wikieditors into the conversation through the addition of WP:NPOV have been thwarted by User:Israell. They have repeatedly removed the tag from the page, claiming they feel the article is already "balanced".
Note: User:Israell has already been warned for potentially WP:CANVASSING in this topic, suggesting a partial bias. WikiMane11 (talk) 13:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Pigsonthewing
| Reclosing. OP partially blocked 2 weeks. El_C 14:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is a preventative measure to prevent further edit warning. Editor repeatedly removes information given in the article with the claim it isn't sourced. It is clearly. The claim is bizarre as it is dishonest, the first admin to cross paths with me on this has failed to act, despite agreeing with me about the issue and the content. Dapi89 (talk) 12:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- The article is John Cunningham (RAF officer) FYI. Dapi89 (talk) 12:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Who identified the birds as Kentish plover? Narky Blert (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Seems to me that the discussion on the talk page is more than covering it, however Dapi89 is refusing to hear it. Dapi89 is making a claim as to the specific type of bird without sources to back it up and is the one who inserted the specific bird type in the first place. Seems like a wooden aerial weapon is coming around. Canterbury Tail talk 13:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Who identified the birds as Kentish plover? Narky Blert (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- The article is John Cunningham (RAF officer) FYI. Dapi89 (talk) 12:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dapi89: When making an ANI report, you must notify the involved editors. I have done so for you in this case. Taking a look at the page history, it appears that both editors have broken 3RR. No exemption appears to have been claimed by either. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 13:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies, I misread the page history. Dapi89 has broken 3RR; Pigsonthewing performed two non-consecutive reverts, then two consecutive reverts with no other edits in between, which doesn't break 3RR according to my interpretation. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 13:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- There was certainly an edit war nine days ago; but PotW hasn't edited the article in a week. Dapi89's report is, frankly, verging on the disruptive: if anything, they have re-ignited the edit-war on their own. . ——Serial # 13:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
[ec; not stale] Time for a Boomerang. Immediately after returning for a one-week block, Dapi89 has one again restored a claim not made in the cited source, with an edit summary of "dishonest lover [sic] mentioned in Golley; further reversion will be referred to disruptive editing page". The falsity of the claim has been established on the talk page. Although they has just posted there, with false accusations, they do not refute. @RexxS: as the admin who previously protected the page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have reopened the report. Sorry about that, Pigsonthewing. El_C 14:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Max Pumpking
| Already globally locked; per meta:Global locks, globally-locked accounts can't even log in, much less edit their talk page. (non-admin closure) Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 17:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Max Pumpking (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) please revoke TPA. See for example this edit or the edit summary of the immedately following edit. Please also revdel the contents, some stuff there doesnt belong here... Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:17, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Victor Schmidt: I have reformatted your comment to make a clickable link, rather than forcing people to edit the page and use copy-paste; I hope that's all right. --JBL (talk) 16:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- No need, they're globally locked now and thus have no talk page access. Praxidicae (talk) 16:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Akoroves has taken to being a troll account
Quick backstory User:Akoroves previously was blocked for sockpuppetry when he repeatedly trying to add himself (Alexander Korevesis) to Korovesis using a second account (User:Wikiauthor77). Since then, the Korovesis page has been protected multiple times due to random IPs adding Alexander Korevesis to the list of notable people, prompting this warning from User:NinjaRobotPirate. Almost immediately after the second period of page protection ended on June 4, the editor immediately started to add either fictional people (ex: ex2 and ex2) or himself but with a fictional description (ex) through random IPs until a third page protection was placed. This has prompted Akoroves to actually use his account to continue trolling the page (ex1, ex2). I seeing that the editor only wishes to troll the page, this editor clearly is not here to build an encyclopedia. GPL93 (talk) 19:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
WP:NOTHERE, WP:RGW and WP:STICK
- LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
LéKashmiriSocialiste, who was indeffed per WP:NOTHERE then unblocked upon promises to engage in better behavior,[134] is here mainly for engaging in POV pushing as he refers all American and Indian sources as "biased" because "United States government is an anti-communist and anti-Chinese government"
.[135] Clearly he is engaging in WP:RGW.
He is failing to drop WP:STICK as well. He was rightfully blocked for 1 week for edit warring as he made more than 4 reverts over same content, and since the expiry of the block he has continued to attack admin Yamla with words like "do they allow dictators like you?... how does it feel to be abusing power and beating someone to near death over a lost penny
"[136], "Yamla here recklessly and harshly blocked for mere 2 reverts
",[137] even after being to stop it. But he remains hostile to users.[138] Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 18:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Aman Kumar Goel I suggest you learn the meaning of POV-pushing. United States is an enemy of China and it's not just my views. When I said better behavior I didn't mean I will try to not say something you don't like or do what you want. Here's the source that shows how USA is engaging in overt and covertly acting against China: [139]. You have had no counter even if I have proven with reliable sources that USA is an enemy of China.
- Yamla has acted in a tyrannical way and his block was incorrect. Regardless I have agreed not to call him that, but it's not an insult when he has abused his position. I havbe no regrets for it [140]. That's because WP:3RR and making multiple reverts is only meant to discourage an edit conflict and one or two reverts can't be a war as long as you have no intention to revert further I had "Even without a 3RR violation: "an administrator may still act if they believe a user's behavior constitutes edit warring, and any user may report edit warring with or without 3RR being breached. The rule is not an entitlement to revert a page a specific number of times".
- Thing is there's nothing prohibiting more than one revert either, it's just intent of edit-warring. So Yamla is wrong in his block and has refused to apologize. After my 2 reverts, I didn't revert for a day nor I intended to revert anymore. So I had no intention of edit warring. And just like 1 or 2 punches doesn't mean a fight, 1 or 2 reverts when you don't intend to make any further is not an edit war. If you think it is, then you can have the policies edited.
- The one being really hostile here without here is you making up false claims because you don't agree with me on India-China conflict. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 15:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Also btw, I stopped talking to Yamla or leaving messages at his talk page many days ago. I agreed not to comment on his talk page even. And I haven't talked about my 1 week block for 2 reverts with anyone else too for many days. So WP:STICK has nothing to do with it, no matter what way you look at it. I request that you amend your complain. LéKashmiriSocialiste (talk) 23:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Had enough of this
I'm stepping away from the conflict but I would prefer attacks such as this, this and this were dealt with. I'd also appreciate someone looking at this account who popped up at exactly the same time as the IP started attacking. Maybe also this one who appeared out of nowhere. Absconded Northerner (talk) 00:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked the IPv4 address for PAs and edit warring. The IPv6 address could be...some really meta WP:MEAT I guess? But I'm not gonna block yet. The Sherrif of Nottingham account probably needs a rename, but I'm on mobile and don't wanna search out the rename template :p Otherwise their edits seem productive enough, probably just a local resident. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 00:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Criticsandupdates
Criticsandupdates (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is persisting in adding material to Jayne Joso, which doesn't appear to be supported by the source cited. When I've raised this at User talk:Criticsandupdates, there's been no reply - Criticsandupdates just reinstates the material. The only communication I've had has been this rather cryptic message, which the user immediately deleted. Note that there's been COI editing of this article before, as noted at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/Archive 103#Jayne Joso. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- It seems that row 143 of the march spreadsheet cited says that an award was med to "Jayne Rollinson" for "The Water CaTts (novel)" There is no cited source that says that Jayne Joso is Jayne Rollinson, although that might be the case. Brief and cryptic communication, failing to mention a difference of name, edit warring to insert a statement of debatable significan ce noty clearly supported by the cited source, none of this is helpful. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I linked WP:Communication is required on their talk page, maybe they will wise up and communicate in the next 24 hours. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Possible block evasion?
| Problem solved. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC) |
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This IP put a sock puppet tag on the IP page. See here. Since that account is blocked, this IP might as well be blocked for block evasion. Interstellarity (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've reblocked the /64 range for 3 months.-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 21:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you, Ponyo for looking into this. Interstellarity (talk) 21:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
| IPV6 /64 rangeblocked for a month by El_C. (non-admin closure). --Jack Frost (talk) 02:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A succession of IP editors has been removing the piped parts of links in Indian film-related lists, to the great aggravation of other editors, particularly DABfixers, who come across their messes. This diff is typical. The solution is reversion; but at least three editors (including myself) have been fixing individual entries on the usual assumption that someone hadn't checked their links before posting. It's very possible to miss things that way: bluelinks to WP:PTOPICs don't show up on any radar, and it was only when I chanced to spot a film called Railway Station that I thought to look more deeply.
This one is live (last edit 02:49, 10 July 2020)
These are stale (active 1 May 2020 - 6 July 2020; sorted in range order):
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:10F7:5D4C:27AB:9FCF
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:80D3:25B6:D5FB:A541
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:8574:17C8:7BC:A5CB
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:B088:75E3:1083:1A2A
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:F806:2079:29F5:73E6
- 2A02:C7D:2235:800:F565:2240:84B6:8D03
There could well have been others. They seem never to stay on one IP for more than a day. This looks WP:NOTHERE/WP:CIR, and I suggest an appropriately-designed WP:BLOCK. Narky Blert (talk) 12:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Rangeblock one month. El_C 13:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- That was quick, I was still posting the notifications! Narky Blert (talk) 14:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Legal threat
| BLOCKED | |
| for making legal threats by 331dot (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 18:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- MathKeduor7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Made at an SPI I just opened here: [141]. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Entry: “Whiteness”
| Officially noted. Chetsford (talk) 04:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I recently came across this hate-motivated entry on Wikipedia and felt that it should be reported in order that it be removed immediately. Elaborating on racist, stereotypical thinking benefits no one and constitutes a psychopathology that should not be construed as knowledge and shared with the public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckoperniak (talk • contribs) 02:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- The process for deleting an article is over here. --Golbez (talk) 02:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not thinking we need a lot of time on this one.[142][143] - SummerPhDv2.0 02:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ckoperniak - thank you for your report. I have made an official note of this entry. Chetsford (talk) 04:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Back to User:NVTHello
- NVTHello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User was previously reported for unsourced genre changes here and here. User has once again continued their unsourced changes and refuses to use a Talk page, this time including articles related to Cascada and the latest such changes being at Helicopter (Martin Garrix and Firebeatz song). In my second report to this noticeboard, a suggestion was made by the last blocking admin GeneralNotability to indef the user. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- I left a note linking WP:Communication is required and urged him to read it before making any further edits. Lets see what happens, while leaving this report open a few days. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:38, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- They still haven't edited, just wanted to keep this thread alive. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 06:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- Dennis Brown, User has attempted another unsourced addition, but seems to have self reverted after giving up on spelling the intended genre correctly. Jalen Folf(talk) 18:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I know this is slow, but keep me in the loop. I don't want to block him just to block him, I've given him info, and I hope he will read it. If not, then he will force me to block me until he does. Hoping that can be avoided. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Dennis Brown, User has attempted another unsourced addition, but seems to have self reverted after giving up on spelling the intended genre correctly. Jalen Folf(talk) 18:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have indef blocked the editor for repeating the same edits that got him blocked the first time. Based on the edit summaries, I question their ability to work in a collaborative effort at all, but will let the reviewing admin decide that, assuming they appeal their block. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Sabotage in my articles
| BOOMERANG | |
| Checkuser blocked Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello and do not be bored. The service of the great managers of Wikipedia. This IP sabotages my creative articles. Please block it.W Mozart (Talk) 10:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Wmozart1, for the record you shouldn't remove CSD tags from articles you have created yourself. ——Serial # 10:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Serial Number 54129: I apologize, I didn't know this, but did these labels hit my articles?They intend to sabotage the labels.W Mozart (Talk) 10:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- He tagged two articles for speedy delete, but his other contribs have been very positive. I'm not inclined to block him at this stage. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown:Hello . Excuse me, what do you mean by positive?I am a newcomer and I am not very familiar with the rules. Thank you for your help.W Mozart(Talk) 10:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I suspect too that while the IP may have been trolling you, they were probably not inaccurate in their assertions. Your first edit, after all, was this near-perfectly formatted and referenced draft. ——Serial # 10:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Serial Number 54129: I don't think that's the link you wanted... Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 10:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Eh, ta Naypta ——Serial # 10:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- By positive, I mean they corrected a date of birth for a rapper's page, communicated on the talk page in a pleasant manner, provided sources, etc. The kind of stuff we encourage. By tagging your two articles, I'm not sure of their motivation. Might be good, might be bad, but it is hard to tell their motivation with just those two edits. They MIGHT have been in good faith. Or not. That isn't strong enough to block someone. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:04, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Someone with access to deleted articles might consider it worthwhile to compare Draft:Newsha Modabber, created in a single edit by User:Wmozart1 on the 8th of July [144] with earlier deleted creations of articles on the same subject in February, both speedy deleted as G5 'Creations by banned or blocked users' [145]. The IP named above seems to think there is socking going on, and I'd have to agree that it seems at least plausible. 109.159.88.21 (talk) 11:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That is interesting. I think the list at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ArmanAfifeh/Archive is interesting, but it means a {{checkuser needed}}. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Someone on commons noted a behavioral connection between Wmozart1 and "Mh6ti". I see Mh6ti is identified in that SPI. DMacks (talk) 12:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Triangulating from commons:File:Kamis party.jpg suggests a connection to 5.126.118.53, part of a pool that both User:Berean Hunter and User:AmandaNP have rangeblocked here on enwiki (they did not identify the master in the public log). I'm also seeing overlap with User:Gm110m, who is CU-blocked here on enwiki. DMacks (talk) 12:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Someone on commons noted a behavioral connection between Wmozart1 and "Mh6ti". I see Mh6ti is identified in that SPI. DMacks (talk) 12:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That is interesting. I think the list at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ArmanAfifeh/Archive is interesting, but it means a {{checkuser needed}}. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I suspect too that while the IP may have been trolling you, they were probably not inaccurate in their assertions. Your first edit, after all, was this near-perfectly formatted and referenced draft. ——Serial # 10:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown:Hello . Excuse me, what do you mean by positive?I am a newcomer and I am not very familiar with the rules. Thank you for your help.W Mozart(Talk) 10:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yep. Pinging TonyBallioni who also appears to have blocked the (now globally-locked) Yasproject, the original creator. ——Serial # 11:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comrade @W Mozart: those are our articles. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown: I made the article you mentioned according to its sources, its sources are valid and I did not publish it in Drift.W Mozart (Talk) 11:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comrade @Ian.thomson: I think there is a misunderstanding for our friends.W Mozart (Talk) 11:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown:,@Serial Number 54129: Please check my account To be determined.W Mozart(Talk) 11:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- W Mozart, can I ask why you are applying to become a new page reviewer only 7 days after creating your account? [146] What exactly is the urgency, and why do you think that the normal 90 days of editing (amongst other criteria) shouldn't apply to you? 109.159.88.21 (talk) 11:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have requested a patrol. Is this a crime? I have just arrived and I have been on the wiki for 6 days. If my request is wrong, I apologize to you.W Mozart(Talk) 11:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I wasn't a newcomer, I would have known the rules better, but I don't know much about being a newcomer.I have not yet read the rules to find out if my request was wrong or right. If this is a crime in your opinion, I apologize to you.W Mozart(Talk) 11:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- For a newcomer, you seem to be remarkably skilled at creating multiple articles in a very short period, each in a single edit. 109.159.88.21 (talk) 12:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Swallow because I use my own wiki translator that doesn't require skill.W Mozart(Talk) 12:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- The English-language Wikipedia does not accept machine-translated articles. And using any automated translator requires skill - or at least, a level of competence in the language being translated to that you appear to lack. Even ignoring the issues with notability, sourcing etc, your articles are incoherent. As is your last comment. What exactly do you mean by 'swallow'? 109.159.88.21 (talk) 12:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Swallow because I use my own wiki translator that doesn't require skill.W Mozart(Talk) 12:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- For a newcomer, you seem to be remarkably skilled at creating multiple articles in a very short period, each in a single edit. 109.159.88.21 (talk) 12:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I wasn't a newcomer, I would have known the rules better, but I don't know much about being a newcomer.I have not yet read the rules to find out if my request was wrong or right. If this is a crime in your opinion, I apologize to you.W Mozart(Talk) 11:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have requested a patrol. Is this a crime? I have just arrived and I have been on the wiki for 6 days. If my request is wrong, I apologize to you.W Mozart(Talk) 11:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- W Mozart, can I ask why you are applying to become a new page reviewer only 7 days after creating your account? [146] What exactly is the urgency, and why do you think that the normal 90 days of editing (amongst other criteria) shouldn't apply to you? 109.159.88.21 (talk) 11:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Dennis Brown:,@Serial Number 54129: Please check my account To be determined.W Mozart(Talk) 11:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Someone should probably look into W Mozart's contributions on Commons too. There appear to be multiple uploads of images for which the claimed public domain copyright status isn't compatible with the source stated. [147] 12:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I would also note that Draft:Amin Fardin, also created by W Mozart, appears to be an autobiography: "I have become very popular within Iranian/Kurdish/ Afghani community due to my reports. Despite the YouTube ban in Iran, My YouTube channel has got more than 100 million minutes viewing and is very well popular, most of my videos on YouTube’s gets more than 500,000 views on YouTube..." 109.159.88.21 (talk) 12:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That article's deleted history correlates Wmozart1 with multiple other socks in the noted SPI. DMacks (talk) 12:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
And on it goes: it should be noted that creation of content regarding Amin Fardin on multiple Wikiprojects is a recurring theme in the long-running sockpuppetry archive linked earlier. [148] 109.159.88.21 (talk) 12:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- My dear, when I told myself to inspect, I do not know what you are looking for in my account, but I request that they inspect.W Mozart(Talk) 12:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wmozart1 (talk·contribs) is
Confirmed to Azizvisi (talk·contribs) and several others. I will update the SPI shortly. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've tagged their (non-redirect) creations as {{Db-g5 Azizvisi}}. They also created seven redirects which will soon qualify for G8. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 13:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Legal threat
| BLOCKED INDEFINITELY | |
| Apokaradokia has been blocked on the grounds of compromised account by Cabayi. LegallyWiki87 has been blocked for for making legal threats by Ymblanter (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 18:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Following a request for intervention at WT:FOOTY, in late May I protected Eniola Aluko (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) after an account claiming to be the subject and her assistant (Apokaradokia (talk·contribs)) made repeated edits to it. Recently I noticed another similarly named account (Dokiakara1964 (talk·contribs)) had been making similar edits, so undid them. Today, a third account (LegallyWiki87 (talk·contribs)) reinstated the same edits. I reverted, warned the user about WP:COI and asked them to request changes on the talk page, and semi-protected the article.
LegallyWiki87 has just left a message on my talk page saying this is "now the subject of legal investigation". Cheers, Number 57 17:35, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I blocked the user indef and left them an explanation what they can do if their words were misinterpreted.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Darth-X-President
| User reblocked. GeneralNotability (talk) 19:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Darth-X-President was previously blocked by another admin (not me) for disruptive editing, specifically, frequent page moves without discussion and an unwillingness to acknowledge concerns posted to their Talk page. They pledged to "never move a page without discussing it with others" [149], on which basis I unblocked them. Two days ago they did, in fact, make another unilateral page move [150] without discussion and outside a naming convention. This move was then undone. I then posted this request for clarification to their Talk page. Since the datestamp on my request for clarification, they have resumed editing but have not answered my inquiry. I believe reimposing the indefinite block would be warranted, however, would prefer not to do so out of a preponderance of caution as my judgment may be clouded since I was the one who unblocked them in the first place. Would an admin please review this and take whatever action or non-action you feel is appropriate? Thanks. Chetsford (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- You unblocked them, you are in the best position to decide if they have violated the terms. There is nothing barring you from policing your own unblock. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree. Since you were the unblocking admin I contacted you about this rather than considering the block myself. I didn't want to step on your toes and I think in many cases the unblocking admin is the best to reimpose a block if they feel the terms of the unblock have been violated. Canterbury Tail talk 10:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I also admire your willingness to be open-minded and forgiving - but if they're ignoring your communication, I don't see a single thing wrong with a reblock. — Ched (talk) 12:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. Based on that I've blocked the editor in question. Chetsford (talk) 13:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Kenneth Saclote
Kenneth Saclote (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been vandalizing beauty pageant Wikipedia pages for longer than I can even remember. They have received warning after warning, and I have reported them twice, but administrators did not even acknowledge my report either time, which allowed the editor to continue on vandalizing articles with no consequences. They have received final warnings more times than I can count and has shown no interest in pursuing discussions on how to follow editing rules. The editors @Bri: and @EdJohnston: previously added on and vouched for my reports of Kenneth Saclote that went unanswered, so if they'd like to add anything else I invite them to. Kenneth Saclote's vandalism has most often occurred on the Miss Universe 2020 (edit talk history links watch logs) article, and the article history can show their vandalism stemming back to December 2019, when they were first reported. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 02:49, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hello User:Jjj1238. This report needs details before any action would be justified. Search for 'Saclote' in the following links to see if you can back up your report:
- –EdJohnston (talk) 03:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Bedriczwaleta
| OP, and everyone else, thinks this should be closed. Chetsford (talk) 15:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have watched him closely after his checkuser block to see if he legitimately improves his behavior, as i have made my remarks on his IP back in early June. I thought he has done good so far without any problems, but then i just found out he was blocked on pl.wiki (for profanity) yesterday for one day. After that block he posted this (in Polish), and it was copied from some website i will not post in here because he posted his account password in there.
Because of that (and the password post), i told him that message should not be posted and i asked the moderators that these posts should be deleted. Instead, the posts were never deleted and i got to know him personally. I tried to be nice to him and he said this (in Polish, due to the law:)
Czas na aresztowanie na Seszelach !!! „Kamerun” to także nazwa byłej niemieckiej kolonii - mimo uzyskania w 1959 r. Niepodległości od Francji - „Praca w Kamerunie” lol nie, Afryka Środkowa nie jest fałszywa. P.D. Nie umiem mówić po francusku ani po angielsku, albo po prostu jestem aresztowany na tej małej wyspie we wschodniej Afryce, którą powiedziałem w pierwszym słowie. Mam nadzieję, że moja siostra zmarła z AK-47, który mam w domu - pomimo zakazu symboli komunistycznych - Zrób mi zdjęcie swojego kalkulatora !!! 29 lutego myślałem o czcionce Riglos O.
Also called me this:
Proszę czekać dużo czasu, ponieważ mój komputer jest zepsuty, wyglądasz na Indonezyjczyka bez IQ lub po prostu opóźnionego kumpla z Azji Południowo-Wschodniej.
Recently it appears that i have mended my relationship with him, with this:
tak i nie znam tej części Warszawy, którą mieszkam xd. również dziękuję !!! to nie wojna, to tylko kontrowersja, ponieważ nikt nie musi ujawniać hasła. Potrzebuję też pomocy Piotra, ponieważ wp.pl jest niemożliwe
However, these first two quotes are really made me horrified at what is going on with him. I need help. I really need help. SMB99thx Email! 05:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have emailed administrators regarding this. I was terrified and fearful, it feels like a ermegency situation, despite that i'm trying to be nice with him. SMB99thx Email! 05:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- "I need help. I really need help."SMB99thx, what type of help do you believe you need? Bedriczwaleta has been indefinitely blocked already. If you feel you are in mortal danger, you should contact your local police department and email emergency@wikimedia.org. Chetsford (talk) 05:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't believe i'm in mortal danger. I need help because he posted messages like arresting himself and exiling to Seychelles and mentioned AK-47 in his sister's death (my condolences). I feel terrified about what happened to him, not myself. I need help because he's probably in a dangerous situation despite my attempts at getting him on the right track since 10 June. I have emailed emergency@wikimedia.org on this situation. SMB99thx Email! 05:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Correction: He feels threatened and as such caused him to send messages like that (getting arrested, not arresting himself). Again, the problem is that his messages seem to scream for help and because of this, i want help too because he's in a bad situation. I cannot help him by myself. I fear for his life. SMB99thxEmail! 06:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @SMB99thx: if you have emailed emergency@wikimedia.org then you have done the right thing to deal with the situation. They have a very professional system in place for dealing with this kind of thing.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @ThatMontrealIP: Thank you. We need to save lives, including him (based on the messages) at threat of being imprisoned or exiled. Unblocked or blocked does not matter. SMB99thxEmail! 07:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm thinking he may have a mental problem. His last post to his talkpage, which he deleted, translates as "= WARNING: == If I speak any language other than Polish, I will be arrested for a thousand dollars (or slightly almost PLN 3,968). I may be sentenced to death and permanently isolated, and if not, on a private plane, convict me indefinite time in Seychelles. This is a GOOD WARNING NOW !!! I also advertised you." Ok, the translation isn't perfect, but... Doug Wellertalk 08:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- You are maybe right that he's mentally disturbed. He said that he's saddened by death of his sister and he's unhappy about George Floyd protests. George Floyd protests are also the reason why i am back here at full-time. I wish him for the best facing those issues he had. SMB99thx Email! 11:52, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm thinking he may have a mental problem. His last post to his talkpage, which he deleted, translates as "= WARNING: == If I speak any language other than Polish, I will be arrested for a thousand dollars (or slightly almost PLN 3,968). I may be sentenced to death and permanently isolated, and if not, on a private plane, convict me indefinite time in Seychelles. This is a GOOD WARNING NOW !!! I also advertised you." Ok, the translation isn't perfect, but... Doug Wellertalk 08:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @ThatMontrealIP: Thank you. We need to save lives, including him (based on the messages) at threat of being imprisoned or exiled. Unblocked or blocked does not matter. SMB99thxEmail! 07:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @SMB99thx: if you have emailed emergency@wikimedia.org then you have done the right thing to deal with the situation. They have a very professional system in place for dealing with this kind of thing.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:50, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
I think it would be best if this was closed and left for emergency@wikimedia.org to deal with. Whatever problem this editor may have is best dealt with by people who know what they are doing. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Phil Bridger: I'll consider seconding your proposal to close this. I brought this up on ANI because i really don't know how to do with him. I feel i treated him badly. I have entertained getting him either globally locked or have his talk page access revoked with the help of admins but i can't get myself to do so. As i have said, he needs help. SMB99thx Email! 11:52, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
BlackSun2104
User:BlackSun2104 is edit warring Template:COVID-19 pandemic data. There was a consensus on how to work the high frequency document with very specific ways to handle certain countries. It does not matter whether the information provided is correct, there is a reason behind every entry made over a prelonger period. User refuses to discuss the matter. KittenKlub (talk) 07:05, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- The user has been warned enough, and if the continue I will block them for edit-warring. However, the consensus you refer to is not reflected at the talk page of the template despite the existence of the two blocks there explaining current consensus. One does not expect a new user going through all the talk pages archives of this heavily edited talk page, and if this issue (using templates rather than bare numbers) is important it should be added to the consensus block(s).--Ymblanter (talk) 07:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter:I know that the documentation is far from perfect. The difficult calculation for the US is there for a reason because some territories are included a separate entries, but are counted in the US total. The reasoning behind the wikidata for India and the template is unknown for me as well. KittenKlub (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- But then you should not expect a user with 120 edits in total to grasp this from the very beginning? I think dropping them a more helpful note at their talk page could take the situation a long way.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ymblanter:
- I've regularly edited the aforementioned template and would like to bring my comments here.
- As a user with around 560 edits back when the aforementioned template was at extended auto-confirmed protection, I was able to grasp the sum template almost immediately. For reference, the template was definitely the first item I edited on Wikipedia that used the sum template. I can only speak for this from the templates used for the United States; I never paid attention to how other locations' figures were structured.
- Then again, this isn't all that BlackSun2104's done.
- He's also worded several of his so-called "reminders" to update locations' figures as "Required" (therefore disregarding WP:VOLUNTEER) [[151]]; [[152]], assumes Wikipedia editors are "careless" [[153]], hasn't learned that editing a topic after publishing it for the first time is possible [[154]] (three topics in a row! all about the same issue!), says that we are "slow to update" [[155]] (another three in a row {again disregarding WP:VOLUNTEER}), and quite frankly just adds stress to the editors of the template.
- After a hiatus, he has returned with the same degree of ignorance for WP:VOLUNTEER [[156]]. Should I also note that reply from the editor who responded wasn't a veteran editor of the template and gave off some "f*$! off" vibes?
- Clearly, this editor hasn't learned even the basic tenets of Wikipedia (and probably has no intentions to), and has not responded to a single reminder that other editors of the template has left on the editor's talk page [[157]]. And besides, the talk page consensus may not have explicitly stated anything regarding sum templates, but it has mentioned how to handle territories on the template—and BlackSun2104's most recent edits to the template have clearly violated that clause of the consensus.
- Cheers, u RayDeeUx (contribs talk page) 16:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- But then you should not expect a user with 120 edits in total to grasp this from the very beginning? I think dropping them a more helpful note at their talk page could take the situation a long way.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter:I know that the documentation is far from perfect. The difficult calculation for the US is there for a reason because some territories are included a separate entries, but are counted in the US total. The reasoning behind the wikidata for India and the template is unknown for me as well. KittenKlub (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Incivility towards WMF employees at Wikipedia talk:Village pump (WMF)
| No call for administrative action at this time, and the underlying Village Pump discussion has been closed yesterday by CaptainEek with a thoughtful statement to which I commend to all of you. As Wikipedia:Civility says, our encyclopedia's civility expectations apply sitewide, which means we all must show mutual respect toward others. Neutralitytalk 17:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am pretty sure nothing would come out of this topic, and I will probably be the one everything is blamed on, however, I am afraid we have to go through it to demonstrate that the community is not capable of solving the problem. We have a topic, Wikipedia talk:Village pump (WMF)#Civility and safe space, started by @Qgil-WMF:, a WMF employee (I believe he is employed in the community engagement of whatever it is now, under Maggie Dennis). Quim argues that even if there is a disagreement between the WMF and the community (which is the case now), the discussions still can be held civilly, and WP:CIVILITY is not optional here. A number of users supported this but a number of users also opposed (some of them are using W?F notation for the WMF, following the earlier suggestion by Guy Macon). If I try to summarize the arguments (and I might be wrong here because these are not my arguments) there are three: (i) the community is so exhausted because of the policy of WMF which takes disastrous decisions affecting the community without prior consultation and without taking the feedback of the community into account, that it is ok to be sometimes incivil; (ii) the WMF can do with us whatever they want, and we can not do anything with them, so being incivil is justified; (iii) what is happening (including using W?F in the responses to WMF employees) is civil and ok. I will not provide diffs, reading the whole topic (it is not that long) is instructive. My argument is basically that we need somehow to enforce civility at least at that page (may be the VP and its talk page), but I think with this one I will leave it here and see what the community can do.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- As I am not seeking sanctions against specific individuals (and generally while I strongly disagree with some opinions provided there I believe all users who participated in the discussion are at this point net-positive for Wikipedia), I will not go to the individual talk pages. Instead, in my next edits I will ping all the participants of that discussion and also leave there a message about the existence of this thread.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Sitush, Naypta, Fram, QEDK, and Hammersoft:--Ymblanter (talk) 07:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Chris troutman, Certes, Joe Roe, GreenMeansGo, and RexxS:--Ymblanter (talk) 07:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Headbomb and Barkeep49:, I hope I did not forget anybody--Ymblanter (talk) 07:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter: Thank you for posting this here. I have been fairly clear, both here and elsewhere on-wiki, in that I am of the opinion that our civility policy should be enforced much more strongly everywhere on the wiki, not just at VPWMF. That being said, I think there is a particular issue at VPWMF, and that it's particularly serious because it doesn't only affect one or two editors; rather, it affects the entire community's relationship with the WMF and its staff, and could even affect recruiting staff members for the WMF in the first instance. I know I wouldn't want to work for an organisation where I spent my day taking abuse from random usernames on Wikipedia. I share your lack of faith that this will be resolved here, but one can hope that it will be.
- WP:CIVILITY does not have exceptions, and IAR is not, in my view, valid for the civility policy. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 08:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Strongly agree that the civility policy is IAR-exempt. There's a difference, in any discussion be it on or off Wikipedia, between being robust in your arguments and crossing the line into name-calling or similar. As one example, we wouldn't tolerate a community member deliberately changing another party to a (non-WMF targeted) discussion's name repeatedly to make a point, so why are we doing the same when referring to the WMF here? I don't think the WMF as an organisation is perfect, far from it, but I do think we should be expressing views in a way that's respectful to the human reading it at the other end, regardless of our thoughts on the entity as a whole. OcarinaOfTime (talk) 08:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please give diffs of my "harrassment" or incivility. It is all explained on that talk page and very clearly I was misrepresented from the outset. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- As far as I am concerned you are in group (iii) - you think the discussion is above the WP:CIVILITY threshold. Please correct me if i am wrong.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Not good enough. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- This place is for admin intervention. If someone wants to block me for saying that an idea seemed "stupid" and yet also saying that if it must carry on then whoever lies behind it should consider WP:SYSTEMIC then go ahead. I am not in a diplomatic service and I'm not going to write an extra 20 words to make the same point when everyone knows what I mean anyway. - Sitush (talk) 09:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- As far as I am concerned you are in group (iii) - you think the discussion is above the WP:CIVILITY threshold. Please correct me if i am wrong.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter: Thank you for the ping. Having re-read my contributions, I am confident that they contain no harassment or incivility. I look forward to a speedy resolution so that we can resume our search for a workable solution. Certes (talk) 10:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Please give diffs of my "harrassment" or incivility. It is all explained on that talk page and very clearly I was misrepresented from the outset. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Who has been harassed there actually? The only one arguing that a specific discussion was running afoul of civility and safe space concerns was Qgil, who accused Sitush of being uncivil. But even that was just Qgil giving their opinion, perhaps in an attempt to stifle negative opinions of WMF right from the start. If there are other bits of the discussion you think are uncivil and constitute harassment, then please provide diffs. I haven't checked what has been said since last night, but at that time it was just a theoretical discussion of what might be allowable or expected in certain circumstances, not any actual harassment or incivility, so no reason at all to involve ANI and to post dramatic headlines. Fram (talk) 09:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I have now read the discussion at that talk page since I left for the night, and there is only one post there that is truly problematic and needs some admin stepping in, and that is the hugely chilling and unwarranted "We are not quite ripe for arbitration, but I think I will try first ANI before movng to the arbitration." by Ymblanter. WTF? How can anyone reading that discussion think there is anything there that needs ANI, never mind arbitration? That, together with the false "harassment" claim here, is just an attempt at intimidation and scaring away people. This is not acceptable, collegial behaviour, and is much more uncivil and anti-safespace than anything else said there. Fram (talk) 09:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- To be honest, I am not sure how I should reply to this. Let us see what others have to say.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- One of the problems is that while we're volunteers, WMF employees are just that, and they deserve to be treated with the same kind of respect we would give to employees of any other organization we interact with. Yes, we can have vigorous debate, but we can't skirt the same lines of incivility as we can get away with when we're interacting with each other. We can't treat them like other volunteers. Using W?F is bullying, IMO, and so was the discussion of the 'Article of the week'. This in my opinion is the same as being rude to a waiter or the grocery store clerk just because you can. For all we know this person has had 'interacting with enwiki at VPWMF' added to their job description. —valereee (talk) 09:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ha! You are sort of suggesting that the reverse may not apply, ie: that the WMF employees need not respect the volunteers. Cart before horse, I think, given they would have no job without us volunteers. Brilliant! - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sitush, where has a WMF employee been calling something you did stupid, or rendering your username in an insulting way, or otherwise interacting with you in a way you found disrespectful to the point you needed to open a discussion about it on a talk page? The reason you can get away with being rude to waiters is because they can't punch back. I hope you aren't that kind of person. —valereee (talk) 10:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I would argue that there have been cases where the WMF has been sealioning us (e.g. superprotect, Wikipedia rebranding, etc.) and even though they use polite language, they are actually telling the community to go f*ck itself. Of course that's not a reason to be rude to them, especially not to individual employees, but respect must go both ways. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sitush, where has a WMF employee been calling something you did stupid, or rendering your username in an insulting way, or otherwise interacting with you in a way you found disrespectful to the point you needed to open a discussion about it on a talk page? The reason you can get away with being rude to waiters is because they can't punch back. I hope you aren't that kind of person. —valereee (talk) 10:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't see Guy Macon's suggestion of W?F you've referred to, but considering the 'rebranding' issue, which looked like it would quite possibly change WMF to WPF, this doesn't seem like bullying. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 11:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- So you do not think that widely promoting a relatively poor article via an official Twitter feed and doing so without first consulting the community was disrespectful and potentially quite damaging? I'm not trawling back through my ten years or so here but I can tell you that there have been occasions when WMF employees have been disrespectful, even if they adopt sealioning to be thus. Me, I just say it as it is because civil disrespect is still disrespect so why go round the houses? Not that I consider my remarks to be disrespectful and I have said as much. Just now above, I was merely pointing out the fallacy of your comment. I can tell you now how this thread will end up - no consensus - because that's how all discussions about WP:CIVIL end up. - Sitush (talk) 10:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I certainly think there's a concern to be addressed, and that forum is the place to address it. The whole reason for having the forum is to give WMF a place to come and ask about shit like that, and the way to make sure they think of it is to make that place a place they feel like they can maybe bounce around an idea without being called stupid. And the reason all discussions about civility go nowhere is that there are too many people here who enjoy being uncivil. —valereee (talk) 10:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- No, the reason is because civility is in the eye of the beholder. But if you think that it is because too many people "enjoy" it then just maybe there is consensus that WP:CONSENSUS does not work for the issue? - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm not following? —valereee (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Well, you wrote it:
the reason all discussions about civility go nowhere is that there are too many people here who enjoy being uncivil
. But you cannot possibly prove it. - Sitush (talk) 11:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC) - You also say
to make that place a place they feel like they can maybe bounce around an idea ...
But they didn't, did they? They just went ahead and did it on their Twitter feed. - Sitush (talk) 12:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Well, you wrote it:
- Sorry, I'm not following? —valereee (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- No, the reason is because civility is in the eye of the beholder. But if you think that it is because too many people "enjoy" it then just maybe there is consensus that WP:CONSENSUS does not work for the issue? - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I certainly think there's a concern to be addressed, and that forum is the place to address it. The whole reason for having the forum is to give WMF a place to come and ask about shit like that, and the way to make sure they think of it is to make that place a place they feel like they can maybe bounce around an idea without being called stupid. And the reason all discussions about civility go nowhere is that there are too many people here who enjoy being uncivil. —valereee (talk) 10:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- So you do not think that widely promoting a relatively poor article via an official Twitter feed and doing so without first consulting the community was disrespectful and potentially quite damaging? I'm not trawling back through my ten years or so here but I can tell you that there have been occasions when WMF employees have been disrespectful, even if they adopt sealioning to be thus. Me, I just say it as it is because civil disrespect is still disrespect so why go round the houses? Not that I consider my remarks to be disrespectful and I have said as much. Just now above, I was merely pointing out the fallacy of your comment. I can tell you now how this thread will end up - no consensus - because that's how all discussions about WP:CIVIL end up. - Sitush (talk) 10:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Valereee
We can't treat [W?F employees] like other volunteers.
Why not? The civility policy already applies to every discussion. Are you suggesting there should be a separate civility policy governing interactions with W?F employees? (my use of "W?F" is just a little bit of protest against renaming) Kind regards from PJvanMill)talk( 11:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ha! You are sort of suggesting that the reverse may not apply, ie: that the WMF employees need not respect the volunteers. Cart before horse, I think, given they would have no job without us volunteers. Brilliant! - Sitush (talk) 10:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Harassment is, as always, a serious accusation, and not one to be made lightly and without evidence, particularly by an admin. Reviewing the discussion, I'm not seeing anything that can be construed as "harassment", or even incivility. If I'm overlooking something, please elaborate, by all means. However it's not clear to me what the implication of "W?F" is. ~Swarm~{sting} 10:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- You are repeating yourself. Asked and answered above. - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Your answers were nonresponsive. —valereee (talk) 10:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, Sitush's answers were spot-on. You appear to be claiming that there was no answer instead of an answer that you are not willing to accept. You may find [ http://wondermark.com/1k62/ ] to be helpful. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Your answers were nonresponsive. —valereee (talk) 10:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- You are repeating yourself. Asked and answered above. - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) I actually agree that harassment is too broad a notion, and there is likely nothing in this thread which a majority would define as harassment. I therefore changed the title of this topic. I disagree about incivility.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- While I do see the point that we shouldn't abuse the WMF just because we can (and vice versa), others do have a point that the WMF should at least warn the community if they're doing to do anything major that is going to draw a lot of outside attention. At the very least, they should have posted a notice to that article's talk page before making it Article of the Week to give the article regulars time to clean it up (if not, ya know, putting something in the Signpost to give even more members time to prepare). These aren't opposing issues, these are perpendicular issues being used by differing sides. If the WMF is not going to do that, they need to not get butthurt when their actions are criticized. And sure, we shouldn't seek to make them butthurt and I'm not yet seeing any reason to go all A.WMF.A.B. here. As for the other issue of balance of power (e.g. the WMF can remove members of this community but not the other way around), the only WMF employee I can think of who I actually got into a conflict with where I know we were both angry at each other is not a current employee. Anecdotal but that episode suggests for me that although (actually perhaps because) the WMF is non-profit, they will cut employees who cause too much trouble getting butthurt over criticism or who otherwise risk putting them too far in the red. If I had to propose any solutions, it'd be for the WMF to say they'll try to do better at checking with the community before taking actions that affect it and (unless and until the WMF starts secretly removing members of the community for editorial purposes) for the community to remember that the WMF is just trying to keep the damn site up. No apologies, no blocks, no bans, no new polices or guidelines or taskforces or initiatives. I know that's gonna be unsatisfactory to a lot of people. Oh well. No real action needs to be taken. Ian.thomson (talk) 10:55, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Skimming through the discussion, I see robust debate ("stupid idea" is NOT a personal attack, even if overly blunt, btw), but what disturbs me is that I am seeing WMF employees DEMAND more respect than we normally give each other. This is certainly part of the reason I gave up my admin bit for some time, and wrote the open letter (still) on my user page. There is nothing on that page that needs administrative interference. All I can conclude is that some people are being very thin skinned and wanting our policy on civility enforced on WMF pages at a level that it isn't enforced on every other page, and THAT is a problem. If you can't handle robust debate, then collaborative projects aren't your cup of tea. Yes, we want to be civil in all things, but that this trivial thing was brought here is a bit disturbing and reinforces the reservations that many of us already have about the Foundation. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- It seems that most times that a representative from the WMF talks to the community, I'm reminded of the animated film "Animal Farm", where one of the Seven Commandments is modified to read "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" (emphasis added). Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Having read the discussions above and on pages referenced, I cannot help but to think WP:CIVILITY, in this case, is used as a means to quench dissent. That is unequivocally bad and transcends the scope of the policy in question. Moreover if sanctions or remedies are not requested and no diffs of actual incivility are provided, the question what this is doing on WP:ANI is a legitimate one. Kleuske (talk) 11:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- To echo the above two comments. This is another example of the WMF attempting to enforce a level of discourse which is incompatible with the ENWP community, it's policies and general robust discussion. Frankly the accusations of harassment and incivility are just laughably idiotic. The pattern is getting tiresome. WMF does stupid thing. Members of community get annoyed at stupid thing and call it stupid. WMF and it's lackeys complain about their feelings being hurt. The concept that if they stopped doing stupid things without talking to the community first, they wouldn't get treated harshly afterwards seems never to cross their minds. Despite it being repeatedly pointed out to them. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- (Since I was pinged.) Dennis' formulation is a fairly good one re: "more respect than we normally give each other". Not to say that we do or ought to disrespect one other. But this ain't a tea party, and we ain't here to compliment the drapery and the scones. This is a factory floor and the machinery runs by smashing ideas into each other, and doing our gods honest best to argue our position, because that's how we get a better encyclopedia. I think most of us on the floor are pretty used to that.
- If people are crossing the line into legitimate attacks against people, rather than ideas, then we should call them out on it, myself included. As it happens, I no-so-long-ago had occasion to email Ymblanter and apologize, because I was concerned that I'd given them honest offense. If I've given someone else offense then let me know and I'll be happy to apologize for that too. But ideas? Ideas are fair game. We should attack them more. Mine. Yours. All of them. And we ought not disrespect the issue of harassment by confusing harassment with the sound of smashing ideas. GMGtalk 11:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I've read through the discussion and I'm not sure what the exact issue is. I don't see any breaches of civility and would strongly oppose any action taken.
- It's nice for the WMF to tweet about popular and well written (emphasis mine) articles. It's probably also fine for them to tweet about articles that need editing or improvement (which we also have a project for). It's not a bad idea on its own merits. So, the ideal course of action would be to explain to the WMF that we have established procedures in place and they'd be welcome to use and advertise content from those as a demonstration of what we do.
- That should end the conversation, but because the community and the WMF have been at loggerheads with each other for years and years, with the WMF having lost the community's respect, anything they do is likely to be received poorly, regardless of its merits. I think the community needs to be more respectful to the messages the WMF send out (cf. "never attribute to malice etc") but equally the WMF need to be respectful towards the community and frame their messages in the least antagonising way they can possibly muster. That's kind of the essence of what (I think) WP:CIVIL is.
- I agree with Only In Death that the WMF has made questionable actions that have antagonised the community and caused perfectly justifiable criticism and blowback; however, I don't agree that this specific thing (Article of the Week) warrants the same level of robust criticism as some of the more well-publicised events of the past. Is this really a hill worth dying on? The point somebody made about rebranding often being an exercise for consultants to make money is a fair and legitimate one; I'm struggling to find a way that could phrase that in a way that would make the WMF understand it. The use of "W?F" is silly and is similar to those who call Brexiters "stupid, ignorant racist Tory scumbags" - I agree with their point of view, I just don't understand what effect it will have other than making them feel better. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- You know what I think would honest-to-god help solve the issue more than anything else? Every Foundation employee, regardless of rank or stature, is required to spend a minimum of 45 minutes every day contributing to a project in some way. Not posting on phab. Not looking at a spreadsheet. In the trenches, with the Soldiers, doing the ditry work. You want to proofread an article? Go for it. You want to take a walk outside your office and snap some pictures to upload to Commons? Fantastic. But when you submit your timesheet, that justifies why we are using donations to pay for your salary, you need to have a justification of how you spent your three hours and 45 minutes this week contributing to the thing that employs you. GMGtalk 13:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @GreenMeansGo This has been suggested before - I've seen it rejected on legal grounds, specifically: people from the foundation editing as part of their work would introduce liability issues. Kind regards from PJvanMill)talk( 16:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Specifically, it might contravene their 501(c)(3) status. ——Serial # 16:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm. I'm not totally sure I understand what's problematic about that from a tax perspective. I had considered that it might be dicey from a 230 perspective. I presumed it could be framed as a training requirement. As in, they weren't being paid to "contribute" any content in particular with no oversight, but they were contributing as a way to familiarize themselves with the projects they were running. Interesting. GMGtalk 19:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Specifically, it might contravene their 501(c)(3) status. ——Serial # 16:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @GreenMeansGo This has been suggested before - I've seen it rejected on legal grounds, specifically: people from the foundation editing as part of their work would introduce liability issues. Kind regards from PJvanMill)talk( 16:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- You know what I think would honest-to-god help solve the issue more than anything else? Every Foundation employee, regardless of rank or stature, is required to spend a minimum of 45 minutes every day contributing to a project in some way. Not posting on phab. Not looking at a spreadsheet. In the trenches, with the Soldiers, doing the ditry work. You want to proofread an article? Go for it. You want to take a walk outside your office and snap some pictures to upload to Commons? Fantastic. But when you submit your timesheet, that justifies why we are using donations to pay for your salary, you need to have a justification of how you spent your three hours and 45 minutes this week contributing to the thing that employs you. GMGtalk 13:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have read the original conversations carefully but only skimmed here. I think volunteers need to have a way to protest foundation decisions and W?F seems like a reasonable one and not, in my view, bullying. If the foundation chooses not to respond to people using that language that too seems reasonable. What bothered me in the discussion is that some members of the community were suggesting that foundation employees deserve no respect or should have no expectation of civility. Also I'm pretty proud of the house metaphor I came up with to describe what happened here so I'll just link to that diff. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If this is the example of incivility that WMF came out with, we have a problem. Not of incivility, but rather one of the WMF (or, at least the one employee who opened the incivility thread) not
understanding the meaning of debate and discoursebeing able to deal with (mild) criticism. That, it seems to me, is the bigger problem. (Nice analogy @Barkeep49:. Particularly the use of the landlord - renter because it nicely sets up the power equation.)--regentspark (comment) 14:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- regentspark, I fixed your link for you, hope you don't mind. Kind regards from PJvanMill)talk( 17:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hi. I just want to say that I had seen this page a few hours ago and I had written a detailed reply sharing my perspective. Meanwhile, the discussion has... evolved here too, and now I fear posting what others may interpret as more gasoline. I want to thank Ymblanter for acting with best intentions. I have no interest in accentuating any tensions. I find the discussion here interesting but (to be clear) I am not seeking any administrators' action. Looking forward to the time and place when we all can discuss about one tweet without causing these side effects. Meanwhile, we'll do our best. Right now I'm not sure about the best immediate next steps, but probably it will become clearer in the next day(s). Qgil-WMF (talk) 14:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If telling the WMF that one of their ideas was stupid every time they came up with a stupid idea was sanctionable, we wouldn't have many editors left. There is a massive difference between saying an idea is stupid, and saying a person is stupid. Having said that, the Article of the Week wasn't a stupid idea, it was just badly implemented, something we've seen from the WMF many times as well. "Would you like a functional WYSIWYG editor for Wikipedia?" "Sure we would!" *WMF come up with Visual Editor* Black Kite (talk) 14:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- This is a culture clash that will never be resolved. Sheer tilting at windmills here. The WMF has the culture of a San Francisco non profit. To those who aren't familiar with this type of culture, calling a colleague's idea or work "stupid" is a damn near fireable offense in this culture. Enwiki, meanwhile, has the culture of an internet website. In this type of culture, I can call a colleague a "c---" and people would debate whether or not I should be punished for it. Trying to get internet people to act the way people act at San Fran nonprofits is hilariously unrealistic. You'll have a better chance of brokering peace in the Middle East. WMF just needs to accept they're dealing with internet culture. A more reasonable standard is trying to stop people from calling each other "c---". Also recognize that it's a very self selected group that's posting there (myself included), not representative of the wider community. (Same at ANI by the way. You'd get a different response if you posted this at VPP or on Cent.) Levivich [dubious – discuss] 15:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That is a good point, but I don't think that the culture is specific to San Francisco. My wife works for an NYC non-profit, and the culture seems pretty similar. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- +1 on this being a good point. --RaiderAspect (talk) 05:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with Levivich. We've adopted a culture of communication- and it's served us well- that forthright language, for the sake of the actual article contents, is welcome and expected. The Fram debacle has shown us that trying to elevate civility above, and to the detriment of, all other concerns isn't going to work and if the WMF wants to keep picking that fight they're going to keep losing. Besides, it isn't really collegiality at all; you can still snark and snipe at each other all day in the style of a Noel Coward comedy of manners provided nobody says "fuck" but that's just a veneer of civility, not the real thing. Reyk YO! 16:00, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Evidence, please. This started with Ymblanter making the following claim:
- "This is pretty much what you are doing now - harassing WMF employees by calling them names on the sole basis of them being WMF employees."[158]
I responded with
- "Please provide a diff where anyone on Wikipedia called anyone names on the sole basis of them being a W?F employee. I will be glad to report that behavior at ANI and ask the Administrators to put a stop to it.[159]
Ymblanter then came here making vague accusations without providing a single diff to back up the above claim. Since when does AN or ANI even discuss reports where the complainant refuses to provide diffs?
In the above thread Valereee claims "Using W?F is bullying, and Ymblanter claims that "using W?F in the responses to WMF employees" is a violation of WP:CIVIL (an assertion that multiple editors in this thread have disagreed with.)
For the record, here is my suggestion in its entirety:
A minor gesture of protest: W?F
- As a minor gesture of protest against the Wikimedia foundation's decision to rebrand itself with Wikipedia's good name, until they back down I choose to call them "the "W?F".
- Feel free to assume that this stands for "WMF", "WPF", or "WTF".
- I call on those who oppose the rebranding to start using "W?F".
- "We should have been clearer: a rebrand will happen. This has already been decided by the Board."[160] -- Heather Walls, head of the Communications department at the Wikimedia Foundation and executive sponsor of the Brand project.
- Sometimes it is the small things that tip the scales. --Guy Macon, 1 July 2020
I dispute the assertion that the above is incivility, and I would call the reader's attention to [ https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/ ]. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Guy: I've suggested once before that you ought to withdraw the comparison between societal privilege that people live through every day and people not liking what you say on Wikipedia. I'd like to strongly make that suggestion once more. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 16:27, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Your opinion is noted. I do not agree that one cannot compare things that are similar in some ways without implying that they are similar in all ways. In my opinion, your suggestion leads to a world without metaphor or simile, never comparing anything to anything else and noting the similarities unless they are identical in all ways. I personally think that it is acceptable for me to say "I am burning up" on a hot day or "let's eat. I'm starving" without having a new Tone Police Academy graduate accuse me of insensitivity to people who are actually on fire or who are actually starving. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think it's being incivil Guy, I just think it's being an attention-seeking dick. And to try and compare it to the Everyday Feminism article you linked to is ridiculous. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 16:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ritchie333 has been warned on his talk page about personal attacks such as the one above. Let us hope that he does not choose to escalate the conflict with additional personal attacks or other conduct unbecoming of an administrator. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:27, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) x3 - I just posted a longer version of this to the VP talk page thread, so will try not to be too redundant. In terms of what's relevant for ANI, it seems important to distinguish between harsh criticism of the foundation and harsh criticism of employees as individuals, because civility doesn't work the same way in both cases. It also seems important to assume that responses to a WMF employee acting as a representative of the organization are more accurately directed at the foundation. That's what I see in the AoTW thread. If someone calls something the WMF did "stupid", while not ideal, that's different from calling a person stupid or even telling a person "your idea is stupid". It does get at a fundamental question regarding interaction between the foundation and the community: is it better for the employee working on AoTW (for example) to try to engage with the community even though it's personal because the community does value that personal element, or is it better to have designated employees communicate dispassionately on behalf of the foundation at the risk of fully formalizing the relationship. I don't know the answer to that. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Numerous editors across a wide range of Wikimedia projects have used various means of imploring the WMF to listen to us regarding their ill-conceived rebranding project. So now they are communicating with us... by asking us to be more polite. Very tone-deaf. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 16:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Extended content |
|---|
| What is all this bullshit about safe spaces and blah blah blah. We are the Union, they are the company. (Redacted) We are the ones on the side of the angels here. They just count and waste the money. We are the alruistic volunteers that create what they market. They will listen to us, or they won't have a product to rebrand. John from Idegon (talk) 17:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
|
- To those who would forbid even the minor expression of protest of using the term "W?F", you are aware that WP:CIVIL does not apply to saying things about organizations, right? --Guy Macon (talk) 20:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Unless WMF has become sentient, then there are still editors involved, so that's irrelevant. Given that it's pretty obvious that this stands for "What the Fuck" surely anyone who advocates the usage of such a phrase should be permanently banned from Wikipedia, without prejudice. It's time that the 5 pillars were enforced, and there's no reason for such clear hostility, which only leads to a hostile environment. Nfitz (talk) 00:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'd argue that advocating for draconian blanket bans contributes to a hostile environment. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 01:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Unless WMF has become sentient, then there are still editors involved, so that's irrelevant. Given that it's pretty obvious that this stands for "What the Fuck" surely anyone who advocates the usage of such a phrase should be permanently banned from Wikipedia, without prejudice. It's time that the 5 pillars were enforced, and there's no reason for such clear hostility, which only leads to a hostile environment. Nfitz (talk) 00:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- You want to make casual use of "WTF" a bannable offense? WTF?!?! Good luck trying to push that one through. Let me know how it works out for you.
- I made my meaning perfectly clear several times:
- "As a minor gesture of protest against the Wikimedia foundation's decision to rebrand itself with Wikipedia's good name, until they back down I choose to call them "the "W?F".
- Feel free to assume that this stands for "WMF", "WPF", or "WTF".
- I call on those who oppose the rebranding to start using "W?F"."
- Your transparent attempt to paint "W?F" as as anything other than what it is -- a minor gesture of protest against the Wikimedia foundation's decision to rebrand itself with Wikipedia's good name -- is classic sealioning. See [ http://wondermark.com/1k62/ ]. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- WTF with the Straw Man argument, User:Guy Macon? Where did I say that casual use of WTF should be a bannable offence? The example you gave, would be targeted harassment - which is most certainly not casual usage. How is it not targeted? How would it not create a hostile environment? It's about time WMF drained the swamp of incivility around here, as far as I'm concerned. Their house - their rules. Nfitz (talk) 04:54, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Did they build the house? No. Did they furnish the house? No. Do they clean the house? No. Do they do maintenance on the grounds? No. Do they compensate us for the time and effort we expend making their house look nice? No. You want to improve the tone of community discussions related to the WMF? Get the WMF to listen to what we are saying because without us they would have nothing. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 13:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Lepricavark:
Did they furnish the house?
Yes, with their team of MediaWiki developers.Do they clean the house?
Yes, with Trust and Safety.Do they do maintenance on the grounds?
Yes, with the Operations team, who keep Wikipedia, all the other Wikimedia sites, Toolforge etc etc running and fast for people around the world. - Are the WMF content creators? No, usually not. Are they hugely valuable to this project and to all the other projects? Yes. Naypta ☺ ✉ talk page 14:42, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- The W?F could accomplish all of those goals -- and do a better job at them than they are doing now -- while spending between 5% and 10% of the 91 million US dollars (that's 72 million Pounds sterling, 124 Canadian dollars or 131 million Australian dollars) that they spent last year. I have run the numbers and I several people have checked my numbers, coming up with roughly the same result. All of the details with citations to sources can be found at WP:CANCER. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Naypta, I stand by my comment. I think that a majority of this community would place little to no confidence in the WMF functions that you mentioned. The WMF is overcompensated for its remarkably small contribution to our volunteer-driven project. They rake in the donations off the strength of our labor and allow us no meaningful input in decision-making. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 16:18, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Lepricavark:
- Did they build the house? No. Did they furnish the house? No. Do they clean the house? No. Do they do maintenance on the grounds? No. Do they compensate us for the time and effort we expend making their house look nice? No. You want to improve the tone of community discussions related to the WMF? Get the WMF to listen to what we are saying because without us they would have nothing. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 13:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- WTF with the Straw Man argument, User:Guy Macon? Where did I say that casual use of WTF should be a bannable offence? The example you gave, would be targeted harassment - which is most certainly not casual usage. How is it not targeted? How would it not create a hostile environment? It's about time WMF drained the swamp of incivility around here, as far as I'm concerned. Their house - their rules. Nfitz (talk) 04:54, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
RfC?
After having mulled this whole affair over quite a bit, the question of who is being harassed, here, remains unanswered. A legitimate case can be made Sitush is the one being harassed, since he’s the one being singled out and dragged to the drama board on apparently spurious grounds. Opinions? Kleuske (talk) 21:39, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Strongly disagree that a legitimate case can be made as described. This description is the opposite of what I read in this thread. The answer to the question who is being harassed here? is "no one". Levivich [dubious – discuss] 21:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sitush will be fine. There are enough eyes on this that people see what is really going on. Personally, I would prefer the discussion over this mess stay within the confines of this thread. I'm under no illusion that the Foundation is going to have an epiphany over this, and will instead be more entrenched in the idea that we, the unwashed masses, are an uncouth, unruly bunch that must be controlled. This thread clearly proves this isn't hyperbole. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I see much of a point in this continuing a whole lot further. I appreciate that Ymb opened the discussion up for broader input. Discussion is our tool. But there is no administrative action called, or even really asked for. I'm sorry that Qgil feels they're being put in a tough corner. I'm sorry they're being put in a tough corner. If they feel they're being harassed, we will absolutely take that seriously. But...that takes more than vaguely saying that a discussion is unpleasant. As others have pointed out, we're not the customers here. We're...kindof...you know...the people who donate millions of dollars in free labor, write and police all the content, and more often then not, develop the things the help us write and police all the content. So I mean, if things are getting a bit unpleasant, then if you want to be the waiter, then yes, we would like to speak to your manager. I'm not sure what she's doing these days, but we're the people who built and designed the restaurant, and also the menu, and also we cook all the food for free. GMGtalk 23:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, Dennis Brown, I will be fine. I do wish Qgil-WMF could find a clearer writing style than corporate flannel such as this because it really doesn't help, but I was never going to be sanctioned because I did nothing wrong. I take far worse flak pretty much daily from aggrieved contributors in the India topic area. I've just been interviewed by a guy writing an article for The Caravan (magazine) and he is horrified at what I have to put up with but would also I think be astonished if he saw how the WMF approach civility etc. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Of course you were never going to be sanctioned. Of course you didn't do anything wrong. Accusing you of "Incivility towards W[redacted]F employees" when you clearly were talking about something stupid that the W?F did was an intimidation tactic to get you to stop criticizing the W?F. I am being treated the same way. See that little ? between the W and the F? Because other editors have started using "W?F" I have been accused of showing up at the workplace of W?F employees, threatening them, and harassing them, and have been told that the W?F should ban me from all W?F projects -- all because of that question mark. They just want to bully critics into silence. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Look, this is not a complete analogy, but why do not you try replying to the American editors by calling their country "United fucking states", or, if you want to avoid incivility accusations for using the word "fuck", "United copulating states", or "U?A" for brevity? And see what happens? This is fully aligned with your opinion that one may not attack persons but is fully entitled to say anything about organizations, and, after all, the sentiment is very wide spread over the world.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Speaking as both an American and an American veteran of the United States Air Force, I don't take offense if he uses "United Fucking States". Then again, I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and the first and more important right recognized (and I do mean recognized, not granted) is the right to free speech. I take a comment like "United Fucking States" as a statement against the action of the government, not an individual attack against any one person. To quote Evelyn Beatrice (channeling Voltaire) "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I will defend to the death your right to say it". People get entirely too butt-hurt over little things. I'm more offended by you bringing this non-issue to ANI, Ymblanter. I had always held you in high esteem until now. This does look more like bullying than addressing a problem, as I don't see a problem. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I would come across a discussion where people use the "United Fucking States" routinely referring to the US I would not participate in this discussion unless I am absolutely forced to. This is just not a level of conversation I can support. Sorry but I am at this point not able to explain it more clearly than I already did.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I might not either, but I'm not going to harass someone over the use. I always have the option of just ignoring it. I'm not thin skinned and perhaps due to my past, accept that not everyone is going to have the same opinion. That doesn't address the fact that this discussion as a whole shouldn't have ever taken place, and the complaining that (as a community) we aren't polite enough when addressing Foundation members. There is a serious culture problem in San Francisco, a real disconnect from the greater community here. And I came back just to watch it get fixed (unlikely, in my eyes) or implode upon the arrogance of itself. This isn't directed at you personally, but it does appear you've been a part of that culture long enough that you have lost your objectivity. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) I do not think I have been part of that culture at all, if I understand correctly what you mean. I spent my entire career at the university (exact sciences, mind you), and we always talk to the point. We are not using this corporate speech mentioned in this thread. I have never been to San Francisco, for the record. Concerning my relations with WMF, I can cite my own reply from another page, even if it is on a longish side: "I have been very vocal opposing all controversial initiatives by the WMF in the last 12 years. Specifically concerning rebranding, my signature is in the first 20 in the RfC and in the first 40 in the petition, opposing rebranding. I have made several dozen statements and I am probably one of the 10 top posters on meta on the topic. I had #Notmyfoundation tag at my user page and only removed it after the statement of the Board that they will look into the issue". I do not see I can be branded as somebody who always does what the WMF says, or as a kind of their agent of influence here. However, I see a problem, which is the level of discussion - I still think it is civility, but in any case this level is not acceptable for many people. Yesterday we had issues with Wikidata editors, today we have issues with WMF employees, tomorrow we are going to have a problem with women editors (note that the only woman editor in this thread was essentially barked upon and apparently decided not to continue). It is not a question of individual editors being at fault - again, the only editor here who unambiguously crossed the line, got an immediate block. It is a problem with the position of the line. It is not about opinions. I do not have a specific opinion about the article of the week, and I strongly oppose rebranding. It is about of how these opinions are expressed. We can tell eberybody to grow a thiick skin. The consequence would be that we are discussing without Wikidata editors, without WMF employees, without women editors - and then suddently we get suprrised when people start talking about toxic environment (though I personally really hate this term) and UCoC. And then peorple go to Twitter to discuss issues which must be discussed here but they do not feel comfortable discussing here.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:50, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
There is a serious culture problem in San Francisco, a real disconnect from the greater community here.
That made me LOL. It's the other way around, Dennis. It's this online community that has a serious culture problem and is disconnected from the greater community (the world). 90% white and male is the proof. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 16:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I might not either, but I'm not going to harass someone over the use. I always have the option of just ignoring it. I'm not thin skinned and perhaps due to my past, accept that not everyone is going to have the same opinion. That doesn't address the fact that this discussion as a whole shouldn't have ever taken place, and the complaining that (as a community) we aren't polite enough when addressing Foundation members. There is a serious culture problem in San Francisco, a real disconnect from the greater community here. And I came back just to watch it get fixed (unlikely, in my eyes) or implode upon the arrogance of itself. This isn't directed at you personally, but it does appear you've been a part of that culture long enough that you have lost your objectivity. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I would come across a discussion where people use the "United Fucking States" routinely referring to the US I would not participate in this discussion unless I am absolutely forced to. This is just not a level of conversation I can support. Sorry but I am at this point not able to explain it more clearly than I already did.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Speaking as both an American and an American veteran of the United States Air Force, I don't take offense if he uses "United Fucking States". Then again, I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution, and the first and more important right recognized (and I do mean recognized, not granted) is the right to free speech. I take a comment like "United Fucking States" as a statement against the action of the government, not an individual attack against any one person. To quote Evelyn Beatrice (channeling Voltaire) "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I will defend to the death your right to say it". People get entirely too butt-hurt over little things. I'm more offended by you bringing this non-issue to ANI, Ymblanter. I had always held you in high esteem until now. This does look more like bullying than addressing a problem, as I don't see a problem. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:04, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- W?F was funny in the beginning, when you first introduced in on Meta, but apparently you just do not know how to stop.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I cannot read Guy's mind but the idea that W?F has to mean WTF never crossed mine until someone mentioned it here. There are 26 letters in the English alphabet and the wildcard ? is a standard thing in computing, and that is how I accepted it - "substitute any letter here". This entire thread is ill-conceived, as was the tweet that sparked it. I also cannot read your mind, Ymblanter, but I am seriously at a loss regarding why you would bring something to ANI yet seemingly state from the outset that you do not want admin action. If it had to be anywhere, which is dubious, perhaps AN would have been a better forum given that some administrators were in fact involved in the original discussion. The entire thing is a farrago of your making and of the WMF, sorry. It will happen again soon because it is what the WMF do: act without consultation, waffle about civility when challenged, walk away with some corporate flannel after lighting the fire, rinse, repeat.This thread never served a useful purpose and should be closed. - Sitush (talk) 08:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I thought I was very clear in the beginning why I brought it here. Let me try again. (1) I think we have a problem in that discussion, which is that the general level of the discussion (that people advocate that opponents of WMF employees should be exempt from WP:CIVILITY - at least this is how I read the discussion, and it turns out that I am in a minority, but I am not the only one) is not really acceptable and is actually counterproductive. If I were a WMF employee I would never go and participate in the discussion where bad faith is assumed against me by default. May be people do not mean it, but this is how I would perceive it. Whereas this might look like a problem of WMF, and even of one particular WMF employee, and I see that many people advise "to grow thick skin", this is in fact a long-standing problem which the moist vocal community voices so far refused to recognize - for example, that women are generally uncomfortable to participating in discussions at such level, not on the merits of the issue discussed, but purely because of the language used. The question was "can we do it better", and the answer is apparently no. (I will not even mention UcOC here, because this would make the whole picture even more difficult). (2) I wanted to have independent opinions - whether we have a problem. Apparently people mostly think we do not. ANI is a reasonable place to ask for independent opinions on the level of a discussion as far as behavior is concerned. I would say AN is less suitable - I was no necessarily asking for opinions of administrators, but I do not hold a strong opinion here. (iii) Contrary to what sone people stated here, I was not (and am not) seeking sanctions against individual participants of the discussion. However I think - I still think, though I was not supported here in this thread - that some actions different from blocks or topic bands or protections - could be taken. For example, a Wikipedian of high standing could have gone there and ask the users to tone down. (Joe Roe tried, and was told to mind his own business, but may be more of them would accomplish the job). (4) As this is a problem - not necessarily with WMF employees, but generally, as I outlined above - which clearly is perceived by many parties as detrimental for Wikipedia and needs to be solved, the issue at some point will make it to the arbitration. I do not exactly know what this case would be, and I highly doubt it would be a case against Sitush or Guy Macon, probably something way more general. In order for the case to be accepted, one must demonstrate that the community was not able to deal with the issue. This discussion (and, indeed, I agree it will be closed or arxived as unresolved) is one step to demonstrate this. This is what I started the topic from.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- You confused 'unresolved' with 'soundly rejected' there. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I thought I was very clear in the beginning why I brought it here. Let me try again. (1) I think we have a problem in that discussion, which is that the general level of the discussion (that people advocate that opponents of WMF employees should be exempt from WP:CIVILITY - at least this is how I read the discussion, and it turns out that I am in a minority, but I am not the only one) is not really acceptable and is actually counterproductive. If I were a WMF employee I would never go and participate in the discussion where bad faith is assumed against me by default. May be people do not mean it, but this is how I would perceive it. Whereas this might look like a problem of WMF, and even of one particular WMF employee, and I see that many people advise "to grow thick skin", this is in fact a long-standing problem which the moist vocal community voices so far refused to recognize - for example, that women are generally uncomfortable to participating in discussions at such level, not on the merits of the issue discussed, but purely because of the language used. The question was "can we do it better", and the answer is apparently no. (I will not even mention UcOC here, because this would make the whole picture even more difficult). (2) I wanted to have independent opinions - whether we have a problem. Apparently people mostly think we do not. ANI is a reasonable place to ask for independent opinions on the level of a discussion as far as behavior is concerned. I would say AN is less suitable - I was no necessarily asking for opinions of administrators, but I do not hold a strong opinion here. (iii) Contrary to what sone people stated here, I was not (and am not) seeking sanctions against individual participants of the discussion. However I think - I still think, though I was not supported here in this thread - that some actions different from blocks or topic bands or protections - could be taken. For example, a Wikipedian of high standing could have gone there and ask the users to tone down. (Joe Roe tried, and was told to mind his own business, but may be more of them would accomplish the job). (4) As this is a problem - not necessarily with WMF employees, but generally, as I outlined above - which clearly is perceived by many parties as detrimental for Wikipedia and needs to be solved, the issue at some point will make it to the arbitration. I do not exactly know what this case would be, and I highly doubt it would be a case against Sitush or Guy Macon, probably something way more general. In order for the case to be accepted, one must demonstrate that the community was not able to deal with the issue. This discussion (and, indeed, I agree it will be closed or arxived as unresolved) is one step to demonstrate this. This is what I started the topic from.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I cannot read Guy's mind but the idea that W?F has to mean WTF never crossed mine until someone mentioned it here. There are 26 letters in the English alphabet and the wildcard ? is a standard thing in computing, and that is how I accepted it - "substitute any letter here". This entire thread is ill-conceived, as was the tweet that sparked it. I also cannot read your mind, Ymblanter, but I am seriously at a loss regarding why you would bring something to ANI yet seemingly state from the outset that you do not want admin action. If it had to be anywhere, which is dubious, perhaps AN would have been a better forum given that some administrators were in fact involved in the original discussion. The entire thing is a farrago of your making and of the WMF, sorry. It will happen again soon because it is what the WMF do: act without consultation, waffle about civility when challenged, walk away with some corporate flannel after lighting the fire, rinse, repeat.This thread never served a useful purpose and should be closed. - Sitush (talk) 08:15, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Look, this is not a complete analogy, but why do not you try replying to the American editors by calling their country "United fucking states", or, if you want to avoid incivility accusations for using the word "fuck", "United copulating states", or "U?A" for brevity? And see what happens? This is fully aligned with your opinion that one may not attack persons but is fully entitled to say anything about organizations, and, after all, the sentiment is very wide spread over the world.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Of course you were never going to be sanctioned. Of course you didn't do anything wrong. Accusing you of "Incivility towards W[redacted]F employees" when you clearly were talking about something stupid that the W?F did was an intimidation tactic to get you to stop criticizing the W?F. I am being treated the same way. See that little ? between the W and the F? Because other editors have started using "W?F" I have been accused of showing up at the workplace of W?F employees, threatening them, and harassing them, and have been told that the W?F should ban me from all W?F projects -- all because of that question mark. They just want to bully critics into silence. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, Dennis Brown, I will be fine. I do wish Qgil-WMF could find a clearer writing style than corporate flannel such as this because it really doesn't help, but I was never going to be sanctioned because I did nothing wrong. I take far worse flak pretty much daily from aggrieved contributors in the India topic area. I've just been interviewed by a guy writing an article for The Caravan (magazine) and he is horrified at what I have to put up with but would also I think be astonished if he saw how the WMF approach civility etc. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I see much of a point in this continuing a whole lot further. I appreciate that Ymb opened the discussion up for broader input. Discussion is our tool. But there is no administrative action called, or even really asked for. I'm sorry that Qgil feels they're being put in a tough corner. I'm sorry they're being put in a tough corner. If they feel they're being harassed, we will absolutely take that seriously. But...that takes more than vaguely saying that a discussion is unpleasant. As others have pointed out, we're not the customers here. We're...kindof...you know...the people who donate millions of dollars in free labor, write and police all the content, and more often then not, develop the things the help us write and police all the content. So I mean, if things are getting a bit unpleasant, then if you want to be the waiter, then yes, we would like to speak to your manager. I'm not sure what she's doing these days, but we're the people who built and designed the restaurant, and also the menu, and also we cook all the food for free. GMGtalk 23:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
B103N48 needs a quick refresher on WP:NPA and WP:CIVILITY
B103N48 needs a quick refresher on WP:NPA and WP:CIVILITY. Not requesting sanctions.
The various conversations can be found here, but short story, user apparently thinks their editing is beyond community scrutiny, and after I attempted to clarify why this and this edit, where the user adds obnoxious, confusing slashes to needlessly complicate a cast list, wasn't consistent with community guidelines, they opted to get pissy. NJA attempted to provide some context for why I was trying to assist, but they didn't bother to respond. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked. OK, you're not seeking sanctions, Cyphoidbomb, but that was fairly extreme, and they were blocked for 48 hours for personal attacks less than a month ago. I've blocked for 72 hours this time. Bishonentålk 17:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC).
- @Bishonen: I trust your judgment.
Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Bishonen: I trust your judgment.
Personal attacks at War of 1812 talk page
- Reason for report
- Personal attacks
- Page
- War of 1812 (edit talk history links watch logs)
- User being reported
- Elinruby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Diffs of attempt to resolve dispute on article talk page
- My posting: [18:55, 28 June 2020][161]; Elinruby's reply: [Revision as of 19:26, 28 June 2020][162]
- Requested remedy
- Topic ban on article
Elinruby's personal attacks on me |
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Elinruby's attacks on other editors |
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- Comments:
Since this editor began editing the article War of 1812 about two weeks ago, they have consistently attacked me and to a lesser extent other editors on a discussion page. While I have requested them to stop, the abuse continues. Most recently, I replaced their comment "You are just trolling" with the template "Personal attack removed" (RPA).[177] Elinruby then replaced the template with:
- Hard revert, TFD was just whining about his comments being moved, yet feels entitled to say it's a personal attack when I agree that there are ownership issues on the page. If the shoe fits, dude, but that is not what I said. Your bad behaviour is escalating. It must be sad to be stuck on one topic like this, I feel for you, really. But uh no, we not be deleting random parties to this war to please you. [Elinruby 23:33, 6 July 2020][178]
Since I have tried to discuss this issue with them and they have not changed, I recommend a topic ban for Elinruby from the War of 1812.
TFD (talk) 02:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Mathglot: Have you some insight into this matter you might share? Thanks, --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
@Mathglot: reping w/o the ststutter. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 11:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Tl;dr: Not much to see here, admin-wise: trouts all around. For Elinruby, a trout for allowing himself to be goaded into some intemperate language; and for User:The Four Deuces a trout or more for placing false user warnings.
Elinruby (talk · contribs) is a long-time user with 40K edits, and a major contributor to a wide range of articles; we have collaborated on translations and articles involving Brazilian and French history and current events. Elinruby is a consummate Wikipedia contributor and content-creator, with a 11::1 ratio of Mainspace to Talk page usage (Main=80%, Talk=7). He collaborates well on Talk pages, and is often the first to seek the opinion of others.
The Four Deuces (talk · contribs) has been here equally as long, with 41k edits, and a 1::6 ratio of Main to Talk usage (Main=11%, Talk=67). I don't believe we've crossed paths much, before Talk:War of 1812 where I have 5 edits.
All of the links provided by TFD above are from Talk:War of 1812, where they have been editing since 2010 (34 in July). Elinruby has edited since 23 June 2020).
Apparently, the War of 1812 is somewhat controversial, as far as the question "Who Won the War of 1812?" is concerned, at least among Wikipedia editors at the article Talk page. (I get the feeling this controversy does not extend to historians, who hold differing views as they often do, but apparently among some editors here, it is a hot-button issue, with one dedicated archive even called, "Talk:War of 1812/Who Won?". Who knew? But I'm not that familiar with either this topic, or the talk page.)
Elinruby gets along with most everyone, generates a lot of content, and uses Talk pages to have fruitful conversations, often inviting feedback from others. That is typical for him, posting numerous Talk page discussions asking for feedback on content matters, as he did at the 1812 Talk page:
Six discussion sections opened by Elinruby at Talk:War of 1812 seeking feedback |
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Whatever this is on Elinruby's part, I see no widespread pattern of abuse. What I see from TFD's links, is Elinruby getting frustrated, notably by TFD, and lashing out out of frustration in ways he shouldn't. Elinruby should monitor his own reactions better when being baited, and pay more attention to WP:AVOIDYOU. That's him at his worst when provoked; however mostly what I see is Elinruby acting pro-actively on this Talk page to to foster collaboration.
Even when he disagrees, cordial responses are more typical of Elinruby's interactions, such as these fruitful exchanges with User:Tirronan:
Discussion excerpts from Talk:War of 1812 |
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| Excerpt from discussion at Talk:War of 1812#Check for neutrality Excerpt from discussion at Talk:War of 1812#Cited, but neutrality questioned anyway:
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TFD, on the other hand, is overly quick to criticize other editors, but has a thin skin, when legitimate problems with his behavior are pointed out, retreating into non-explanations in an attempt to justify his behavior.
When despite the heat in the discussion at Talk:War of 1812, Elinruby wouldn't bend to TFD's preferred content, TFD then placed an invalid Edit-warring template on Elinruby's User talk page (here; diff, perma) even though the WP:3RR criterion of 3 reverts within 24 hours had not been met. (Elinruby has three lifetime reverts at the article, one of those, a self-revert. In response, I placed this notification (diff) at TFD's Talk page to explain why the EW template he placed was mistaken. Rather than thanks, or even silence (probably the wisest course), he chose to make a snarky reply trying to wriggle out of it, claiming without evidence that he "counted more than three reverts", and avoided dealing with his misbehavior by taking on the victim's role.
TFD appears generous in his bestowal of accusations of bad faith and viewing the behavior of others as personal attacks, but unable to distinguish between an accurate description of unacceptable behavior on his part and a personal attack, when he is the one being called out. If he isn't getting his way at an article Talk page, placing erroneous user warning templates is not the way to gain consensus, or simply stifle opposing views. A trout at least.
Nothing seriously actionable here, at this point. Sorry it took me so long to get back; I need to move someplace that has a 28-hour day. Mathglot (talk) 08:30, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I want to thank Mathglot (talk · contribs) for speaking up. I have not been ignoring this, but did not want to generate a bunch of defensiveness for you to wade through. TFD's quotes above are accurate but out of context, and I can trust you to see that, right? For instance, I told him he did not understand Canadian history *if he didn't understand the link between Quebec and French-language instruction*. "Big American bwana" was in response to being told I had a false memory of what I learned in high school, not that I was even saying that this was proof of anything... Anyway. I wish someone would explain the distinction between balance and weight and fringe theory to him, but if this is a boomerang (and personally I think it should be) then I don't think the penalty should be a topic ban, at least not yet. And yet, several of the editors have been intimidated by him, and I am not sure how to solve that. I will answer any questions that anyone has, but that is what I have to say. And BTW, Mathglot and I know each other from WP:PNT and a number of big translation projects, but have never met outside of Wikipedia. Elinruby (talk) 18:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Block evasion by 170.167.194.123
- 170.167.194.123 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
This IP claims to have made an edit "earlier" to User talk:Oshwah that was reverted. The only edits to that page that were reverted in the last 24 hours were made by users that were subsequently blocked. I don't know which account belongs to them, but this is obviously a case of block evasion. - ZLEA T\C 20:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- LTA, blocked a month. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:51, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Andrew9393787 contributes in various destructive ways to many wrestling-related pages. They persistently adds unsourced content with subsequent removal of the "unsourced" template on Ronda Rousey, a behavior which is leading to an edit war. They seems to have issues with sources in general, either by failing in provide them (such as on 6ix9ine12) or interpreting them at will, deliberately adding errors such as on WWE (12); in late June when The Undertaker seemingly announced his retirement, Andrew9393787 stoically engaged into an edit war, also removing seemingly reliable sources hinting the retirement.
The user has been warned countless times on talk page about different issues warnings that were promptly deleted (including a last warning from me); they laconically replied to me with a "don't tell me what to do" on my talk). Khruner (talk) 17:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Obviously you should hit him over the head with a folding chair and be done with it. --JBL (talk) 18:46, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Such a manouver would probably only be part of a long feud. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- From skimming their contributions over the past month or two, I'm not seeing anything worth keeping. Indeffed. If anyone unblocks, recommend also applying a topic ban on pro wrestling. GeneralNotability (talk) 00:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
(Spudlace) continued reverts and vandalism on Portuguese cuisine
(Spudlace) has been engaged in WP:Vandalism, violated WP:3RV and deleted even images repeatedly against this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Spudlace
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portuguese_cuisine&diff=967169490&oldid=967086611
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portuguese_cuisine&diff=967149938&oldid=967149124
Also because they display a similar MO (aggressive conduct, fanaticism, supposedly new profile with apparent knowledge of Wikipedia editing tools which doesn’t add up with new users) to banned serial vandal User:JamesOredan(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_JamesOredan). Based on experience, the alarm bells are ringing and I strongly suspect this is yet another sockpuppet profile created with single-purpose intent. Please check user’s Spudlace activity.
Many thanks, Melroross (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
2)
- This user Spudlace continues to vandalise the same page, with no valid explanation to their persistent reverts of referenced contents:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portuguese_cuisine&diff=967204596&oldid=967190779
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portuguese_cuisine&action=history
- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portuguese_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=967204808
- Please assist with this very disruptive, counterproductive and time-consuming reversal mission by Spudlace.
3)
- This user User:Spudlace continues with disruptive and malicious editing:
- User:Spudlace Added ‘multiple issues template’ to this article for alleged unreliable sources, bare referencing and (WP) notices, when very little is left to question. They do not contribute with quality, duly referenced and academic contents, but rather either revert other editors’ good-faith contributions or add peculiar, inaccurate and speculative contents which make little or no sense.
Third request, please assist with this. Melroross (talk) 01:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Spudlace is also involved in pretty aggressive disputed edits at Salsa (sauce). I assume good faith, but a tune-up of approach is certainly in order. Dicklyon (talk) 02:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Btw, I don't see any notification of this complaint at Spudlace's talk page. Dicklyon (talk) 02:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
ThienDe98 Xam lon
ThienDe98 Xam lon (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) WP:NOTHERE. Yust see Special:History/COVID-19 pandemic in France. And please protect the page, while you're at it. Victor Schmidt (talk) 08:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Mass-deletion of blocked user
Regarding User:Zinedinemay2006 , I reported them for for constantly recreating deleted and draftified pages to which he was swifty permanently blocked. I was thinking it could be in order for the pages created to be mass-removed. Take a look at the users talk page and contribs and you will see more about what I mean. Kadzi (talk) 17:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I was just discussing this on IRC. They have created over 100 pages, but quite a number have been cleaned up by other editors, e.g. Protea rubropilosa. Those ones should be left, at least. For the rest, not sure if it's better to delete/redirect the ones that are left, or just putting on maintenance tags. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 18:03, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yep - there's also tons of draft pages that will now be unnecessarily stagnant in draftspace for 6 months (as user is blocked) Kadzi (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- A lot of the drafts are duplicates of mainspace articles (they recreated the same articles in mainspace after they were draftified). I suppose these mainspace duplicates could be deleted using G6, as cut-and-paste moves. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 18:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- These new articles are in a horrible shape, that's a vast amount of cleaning-up - in effect they would have to be completely rewritten. Would support speedying the lot rather than expecting people to do that. But exempt those instances that have been sorted out correctly, like the one linked above. (Also note that a fair few of these are subspecies that would not normally receive a separate article in any case.) --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yep - there's also tons of draft pages that will now be unnecessarily stagnant in draftspace for 6 months (as user is blocked) Kadzi (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I (as well as Praxidicae) went through and redirected the subspecies articles to the appropriate species article (and even made a new article). I also had cleaned a few others up. They are certainly garbage articles, poorly formatted, sourced, and translated. It didn't take me too long to cleanup one, but no way I can cleanup all 50+ of their bad plant articles. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 23:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Leo Breman is having a go at working over the remaining ones - apparently they are translations from the Afrikaans WP. So I guess we could let them sit for a while and hope he doesn't run out of steam :) --Elmidae(talk · contribs) 15:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I'm beginning to suspect that whomever wrote these articles and was blocked, keeps on signing in a new account, makes one edit to these articles and never shows up again. This because the same grammatical mistakes and idiosyncrasies (putting punctuation within wikilinks/mark-up). Beginning to get slightly annoyed, because these edits are actually making these bad articles worse. All accounts are from India, and quite ludicrously claims to be a professor twice. Six instances so far. Leo Breman (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Leo Breman is having a go at working over the remaining ones - apparently they are translations from the Afrikaans WP. So I guess we could let them sit for a while and hope he doesn't run out of steam :) --Elmidae(talk · contribs) 15:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Uncommunicative User:Wiki wolfname
- Wiki wolfname (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Hello administrators,
User:Wiki wolfname has been making problematic edits to Wikipedia for over a month now, and hasn't responded to or even acknowledged any of the many messages on their talk page. They have been creating articles about Japanese films and media personalities, the vast majority of which don't meet the criteria at WP:NFILM, and also violating copyright policies by pasting in large sections of text from either non-free websites or other Creative Commons wikis, plagiarising text from the latter without the required attribution. Virtually all of the articles they have created have either been draftified, redirected or flagged for deletion. In addition, they also earned themselves a one-week block from Commons for repeatedly uploading fair-use images there, and have gone right back to it after their block expired. I have been trying to help them edit better, but they haven't communicated with any other editors, and I am at a loss as to how we can help them. He doesn't appear to have very good English proficiency, but the messages I translated into Japanese haven't gotten a response either.
Thank you, Passengerpigeon (talk) 07:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have indeffed for copyvios, failure to communicate, and disruptive draft creation. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call and spur some meaningful discussion with the editor and we can unblock, but I'm not holding my breath. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 19:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Violent Threats Against Me
| The curses have been warded with an indeff block and a Hamsa. Moneytrees🌴Talk🌲Help out at CCI! 23:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This editor @Julie Conteh, has just threatened me with African sorcery as seen in this diff should their promo article Draft:Israel Rocklyn which has been deleted & recreated by them severally & has just been marked for a CSDG11 by me, be eventually deleted. I request an indef block as their edit history show they are not here to build an encyclopedia but rather are here for the singular purpose of promoing the subject of their article. Celestina007 (talk) 09:18, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- You called their contributions "horse shit". Did you expect them to roll over and be polite? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Celestina007, you are required to notify the editor that you started a discussion here about them. You can do this by adding {{subst:ANI-notice}} to their talk page. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 09:27, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Well, I deleted it as WP:G11. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Shouldn't we block them for threatening off-wiki magical action? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 09:30, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) I blocked indef since it was a very clear threat of violence (whatever we can think of black witchcraft). Not yet sure what the behavior of the other party was, will look at it now.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333, No Ritchie, you seem to misunderstand the timeline of events here. I only used “horseshit threat” in my Edit summary after they had first threatened me with dark magic and suffering not prior. And yes @BlackcurrantTea, you are very much correct, this is my first ANI case so I forgot that part. I’d so now. @Deepfriedokra, now that’s the real question. @Ymblanter, I literally just stopped Wikipedia from being used as a promotional platform.Celestina007 (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) The behavior of Celestina007 is not exemplary here either. If you think the user is evading a block, report block evasion. If you think this is promotional editing, report promotional editing. I have seen people literally attacked by socks for days, and becoming incivil, and at least I see how it may be excused. It does not seem to be the case here.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I support the deletion and block, and would also request Celestina007 refrains from inflaming these sorts of situations in the future. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Ritchie333 & Ymblanter, well I guess you are both correct. I’d do better next time. Celestina007 (talk) 09:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I support the deletion and block, and would also request Celestina007 refrains from inflaming these sorts of situations in the future. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) The behavior of Celestina007 is not exemplary here either. If you think the user is evading a block, report block evasion. If you think this is promotional editing, report promotional editing. I have seen people literally attacked by socks for days, and becoming incivil, and at least I see how it may be excused. It does not seem to be the case here.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- As an uninvolved editor, I think I'd concur with both Celestina007's analysis of the threat and their response; to be honest, anyone threatens another editor with, literallly, any form of suffering loses all good faith priveleges that instant. And the timing's important: had she responded horticulturally to a simple request for clarification overa CSD tag, that would have been poor. But to respond that way after being threatened? Go right ahead. ——Serial # 10:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Responded horticulturally? Does that mean, like, responding in a way that cultivates collaboration? EEng 03:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Not sure how effective a hamsa charm is against West African juju, but in the event that any of you are cursed, I wish to present you with this two-dimensional talisman to ward off evil spirits. Use it wisely. Kurtis (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Kurtis, Oh my, I presume just viewing it is supposed to activate its anti sorcery effects, well I have viewed it multiple times & hopefully it saves me from the impending curse that supposedly awaits me. Thanks kurtis, quite thoughtful of you. Celestina007 (talk) 17:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Any spell-casting editor should consider the Rule of Three. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- WP is a truly amazing place! Tribe of Tiger Let's Purrfect! 21:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Repeated reversions and evidence of bias by TruthGuardians (at FBI files on Michael Jackson)
Note: Rather than report this user outright for edit warring, I've decided to move it here in the spirit of good faith, but I am using the template for reporting a user.
Page: FBI files on Michael Jackson (edit talk history links watch logs)
User being reported: TruthGuardians (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Previous version reverted to: Special:Diff/966891033
Diffs of the user's reverts:
- Special:Diff/966883524
- Special:Diff/966884490
- Special:Diff/966884699
- Special:Diff/966884951
- Special:Diff/966891033
Diff of attempt to resolve dispute on article talk page: Special:Diff/966897110
Comments:
I believe there is evidence of extreme bias within FBI files on Michael Jackson, and within the actions of User:TruthGuardians. Unfortunately it's a complicated issue, so bear with me, if you will.
This WP article is about the FBI Files about Michael Jackson that were released under the Freedom of Information Act in 2009. According to the FBI's own words about these files:
Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and investigative assistance to these agencies during the cases.
— FBI, FBI Records: Michael Jackson, https://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson
There are no conclusions in the FBI files, they are merely a collection of evidence and reports used to assist law enforcement agencies (as anyone can see for themselves at the above link). The files are largely comprised of collected newspaper clippings or technical analysis of evidence. However the FBI files on Michael Jackson article has been edited to selectively address various newspaper clippings or allegations within the file.
Consider the following sentence: "Other allegations being tracked by various newspaper clippings included detectives traveling to the Philippines to interview a couple who use to work for Jackson. Due to credibility issues over back pay, their claims were dismissed."
There is no conclusion about the claims within the FBI file, simply a newspaper clipping referring to them.
Or the following paragraph written in response to another newspaper clipping in the file:
In 2003, 10 years after George accused Jackson, he cheerfully recalled his 1979 interview with him in Louis Theroux’s documentary, Louis, Martin & Michael. When asked about the accusation he said “it came out really without my authority” and "it developed from somebody who had a big mouth, basically, one of my close friends who knew about the story." Regarding whether the story was true George told Theroux “parts of it are true yeah...parts of the story are true...I mean I would say the majority is true but papers get their bit and they twist it and they make things a bit sensationalized really."
These comments are not about the FBI file itself, but rather selectively choosing small samples of a 300+ page document (namely accusations relating to Michael Jackson) and attempting to address THEM. In short, this page seems to primarily spend its time selectively referencing specific allegations and attempting to refute them, pushing the narrative of Jackson's innocence.
This apparent bias is supported by TruthGuardians's complaints on the Talk page that the article is being vandalised by users who wish to remove "content that is critical of Jackson’s accusers" (see Special:Diff/962478693).
The page should simply be about the FBI's files, and the public reaction to their release. There is nothing "unbalanced" about the files that needs to be addressed, nor anything critical about Michael Jacksons's accusers that needs to be added. WikiMane11 (talk) 21:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I partial blocked both TruthGaurdians and ThunderPeel2001 36 hours for edit warring on that page. This is ThunderPeel's first offense, but it is TruthGaurdian's second (he was warned, but not blocked, for edit warring a month ago), so I would support a longer block on TruthGaurdian. CaptainEekEdits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 23:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I make no judgement on the other claims, beyond saying that both users should have used dispute resolution to solve this content dispute before it became an edit war. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 23:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, that seems fair. As stated above, I have begun the dispute process here: Special:Diff/966897110. I believe the page itself has some serious issues that need to be address, however. WikiMane11 (talk) 00:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Having recently participated in the talk page discussion for this article, and tweaked the contents a bit, I would suggest that the article should be configured so as to follow what is said in third-party sources, rather than attempting to reflect any editor's judgment about what in the FBI files bears repeating on Wikipedia. BD2412 T 02:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Willing to mediate
A request has been filed at DRN for moderated dispute resolution. I am willing to mediate a discussion to resolve this as an article content dispute if the parties agree that this can be dealt with as a content dispute. As User:BD2412 has said, the article has to reflect what reliable third parties have written about the files, and the discussion has to focus on what the article should say, which should be consistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Since any dispute resolution process is voluntary, and dispute resolution only takes places in one forum at a time, the parties will have to agree to withdraw any conduct issues at least for now. Do the editors want to engage in moderated dispute resolution? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have no objection to that course of action. BD2412T 00:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have tentatively opened a case at DRN and am waiting to see if editors want to engage in moderated discussion. Moderated discussion is voluntary, and if editors don't come to discuss, it will be closed as not really opened. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Steve Dabliz again
| Relevant accounts checkuser blocked by NinjaRobotPirate. Name variation added to title blacklist by Black Kite.[179] Nothing more to do here. (non-admin closure). --Jack Frost (talk) 04:23, 14 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Issue with Steve stuzz is the same as discussed at ANI a few days ago, here. An editor who is technically not the page creator removed the CSD tag so I believe standard practice would be to take it to AfD but I don't have interest in arguing with a paid editor for a week and I think an admin deleting, blocking and salting is appropriate given the significant previous disruption. Pinging ZLEA and El_C as they are familiar with the situation from the previous discussion. — Bilorv (talk) 13:40, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Relevant accounts are Ahmed.ali ibragem, Mahmoudallam15 and Johnaust, all notified as per ANI rules. — Bilorv (talk) 13:43, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I say we salt "Stuzz" as well. - ZLEA T\C 13:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
-
Might be worthwhile to salt "Dabilz", too. It appears to be a common typo that was used once before. Nevermind, I see that it's already been done. - ZLEAT\C 13:47, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Creation protected, again. As I recall, someone was gonna add it to the blacklist. El_C 13:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC) - @El C: I added the actor's surname (which this version of the name doesn't include). Looks like I need to extend it, so I will. Black Kite (talk) 14:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Ianoswiki
This editor is claiming they (multiple people) are the lawyers for Christian Narkiewich Laine, president of Chicago Athenaeum. With this edit summary they have been stating changes to their site are illegal. Clearly not here, making legal threats, and own.--VVikingTalkEdits 14:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked for making legal threats. I don't do that often, as I think it tends to be done in an oversensitive way, but that really was an unmistakable legal threat. Bishonentålk 15:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC).
We have already sent a judicial notice to Wikipedia
– Gee, a lawyer who doesn't know what the term judicial notice means. How odd. EEng 06:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Legal threats
| Editor indeffed. NAC. –Davey2010Talk 11:58, 14 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Truth Digger has made legal threats here. -- The Anome (talk) 11:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Block them.Slatersteven (talk) 11:15, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Scrappy1931
| Editor indeffed. NAC. –Davey2010Talk 11:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Scrappy1931 has admitted (or claimed?) on his own user talk page and on mine that the account is compromised, and has also made a legal threat at User talk:David Biddulph#Listen to me right now. This appears to give two grounds for indefinite blocks. --David Biddulph (talk) 11:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 11:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
User 梦出一切
梦出一切 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
On List of Internet phenomena in China (example edit, the user listed above (who I will refer to as "Dream" after the first hanzi in their name,) has made a series of edits that, based on the number of dead parameters in the references, the amount of unreadably broken English, and the fact that nearly 100,000 bytes of text have been added to the article by Dream in the span of four and a half hours. This leads me to believe that Dream is turning the article into a direct machine translation of the corresponding Chinese-language article without proper copyediting or attribution that it is a cross-Wiki translation, which would be in blatant violation of WP:MACHINETRANSLATION.
If this isn't a violation I'm sorry to have wasted your time. Klohinxtalk 08:16, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Clearly WP:NOTHERE: After being blocked on zh for creating various meaningless pages, this user continued created scarcely used user boxes and those machine translated content here. -Mys_721tx (talk) 08:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Whilst you're about it, they've created a bunch of "political" userboxes creating WP:REDNOT categories like Category:Thinking that patriotism does not mean loving the party’s Wiki that could do with nuking. Le Deluge (talk) 13:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
User Ms96 civil right-wing POV pushing
| INDEF | |
| For reverse racistdonderpreek, "Go walk the plank", said CaptainEek. - Levivich [dubious – discuss] 02:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)(non-admin closure) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Ms96 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I encountered this user only just recently at Talk:White genocide conspiracy theory; I've been active at that page recently but didn't notice their active discussion at the top of the talk page until today. They're one of a seemingly endless string of accounts coming to the page to advocate for including irrelevant demographic statistics to this article on a batshit crazy white supremacist theory that Jews are conspiring with government agents around the world to exterminate the "white race". Since Ms96 opened their version of the discussion on 15 June, they had managed to convince exactly nobody of the merits of including these irrelevant statistics but was still going on about it, so I closed the discussion. They reverted my close (another editor restored it) and then took to my talk page to continue the argument, which I did not engage, just warned them that they had already been advised about AP2 discretionary sanctions. Another editor did engage briefly but Ms96's last comment there was a loose legal threat which I removed. (Not diffed because it probably doesn't meet the WP:NLT threshold, but they're definitely escalating).
Afterwards, I reviewed some more of this user's recent work:
- On Reverse racism, Ms96 made a bold edit to the article's lede stating bluntly that reverse racism is a real social phenomenon, rather than the sourced consensus that it's alleged by conservatives as an attack on affirmative action programs, or the zero-sum white supremacist belief that all societal gains by non-whites come at whites' expense, basing their edit solely on the existence of discriminatory policies against whites in Zimbabwe (Mugabeism). When another editor tried to incorporate some of their useful Mugabeism material into the article in appropriate context, Ms96 reverted to their preferred "reverse racism is real" version. Their edit was later entirely reverted by another editor. Ms96 again started a discussion which failed to convince anyone of their POV.
- On Far-right politics in the United Kingdom (diff) they removed a see-also link to Right-wing terrorism, wondering in their edit summary "how this POV has remained intact so long". The link is not POV: an entire half of the section it heads is devoted to UK right wing entities which have been described as terrorist organizations.
- On Racism in Zimbabwe, the edit summary in this revert speaks for itself: "Your actions in white washing the issue of racism against whites is strikingly alarming."
- On Talk:Black Lives Matter, they're pushing for the organization to be labelled Marxist in Wikipedia's voice. They claim to have sources but what they really have is a novel synthesis based on sources identifying various BLM "leaders" as Marxist. Several editors have rejected this but they're still going as of today.
Furthermore, in response to being warned about edit warring for reverting my close (a warning that was probably not due, to be honest) they responded by attacking the editor who warned them, and others who replied. These attacks contain such gems as:
- "Things won't change as long as the left breeze sweeps through WP ... freedom of non-profit organisations in a Western democracy is a complete hoax ... have fun with your falsehoods."
- "A Tribute to My Left Fellas in the Talk Page of the Carcass of a Canceled Retarded Rural Psychopath" (in a comment directed at a named user, whose name I purposely omitted)
I believe, to put it lightly, that this user should not be near anything having to do with post-1932 American politics, right-wing politics globally, or anything to do with racism or race relations, and propose that they be banned from those topics. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 00:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Their talk page discussion makes it clear that they are WP:NOTHERE and can be expected to be a continuing disruption. O3000 (talk) 01:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC) O3000 (talk) 01:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'd also like to point out that the source they cited to call BLM Marxist is a hyper-McCarthyian conspiracy theorist work asserting that Marxists have been infiltrating the government and that their influences include FDR's New Deal, the Civil Rights Movement, and Johnson's War on poverty -- not to mention Black Islam. That alone should result in at least a topic ban from all political articles, if not history and race as well. There's also them bending over backwards to defensively re-interpret someone else's utterly false statement that only a single Guardian article is used "to declare white genocide in South Africa a myth" (that thread quickly closed as NOTHERE pot-stirring). Ian.thomson (talk) 01:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Given the suggestions of topic bans in multiple areas, the clear POV-pushing and conspiracy nonsense, and their cavalier use of slurs and PA's, I have simply indeffed them for WP:NOTHERE. Another admin is welcome to unblock them with a reasonable request and at least a politics topic ban, but I see no need to waste time on this thread and user. They're just another time-sink who wants to right the great wrongs that folks perceive on Wikipedia. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 01:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Continuation
User has continued their diatribe on their talk page, might be time to revoke TPA. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- They put what can be construed as an appeal on their talk page today [180], two weeks later, but then immediately deleted my response to it [181] on spurious grounds. In my response, I also suggested that TPA should be revoked, since they don't appear to have any understanding whatsoever about why they were blocked. UTRS exists, and they can use it to appeal. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
AbhinavA1694 is a decent editor who generally focuses on Indian films and actors. Generally their edits are good but they have a bad habit of not bothering with sources (see [182], [183] and [184] from the past few days for recent examples). They know how to cite [185] and I've left them a fair number of warnings and a pointed note on their talk page (which they read as they nicely corrected some minor grammatical typos). The WP:OR is still continuing after that note. This area is rife with poorly sourced articles, so adding to it doesn't help. They were blocked a week ago for this problem and have continued. At this point, I think a block until they respond back with an understanding of the problems and a willingness to address them is needed. Ravensfire (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked indefinitely. Issues with sourcing and communication are clear-cut and the proposed remedy is the most appropriate action, given the ineffectiveness of formal warnings, personally-written messages, and time-limited blocking. ~Swarm~ {sting} 00:40, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Mike Gapes MP
| Indefinitely blocked by an admin. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 08:42, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Mike Gapes MP (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User has COI issues editing Mike Gapes, however I am posting here due to this threat to call the police. Admin intervention required.--Hippeus (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I very much doubt they are who they say they are. Regardless, I've blocked as very much not here. GirthSummit (blether) 13:28, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Is there any guideline for dealing with accounts that are used to impersonate public figures? Maybe rename it just in case? --RaiderAspect (talk) 13:35, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- @RaiderAspect:, Wikipedia:Username policy and specific noticeboard Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention. When I first ran across them, they were just editing Mike Gapes from a very non-neutral perspective and I WP:AGF they were who they said they were. The subsequent edits made me lose much of that faith.--Hippeus (talk) 13:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- We would normally block an account like that as a misleading username,even if their edits seemed reasonable - to be unblocked, they'd need to provide evidence that they are who they claim to be via OTRS. In this case, with a combination of obvious vandalism, BLP violations, an arguable legal threat and a dubious username, I've just done a NOTHERE block. I'm not aware of any precedent for renaming accounts like that. GirthSummit (blether) 13:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Crusades
I know that WP is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. I am also convinced that enthusiasm of thousands of amateurs (like myself) is the principal driving force behind our community's success. However, a certain level of knowledge is necessary to be able to improve individual articles. An editor who edits an article without actual knowledge about the article's topic can hardly add value, but easily can destroy it. If the same editor is also negligent and unable to make a single edit without spelling mistakes, the problem is multiplied. I visited this noticeboard to report an enthusiastic editor, Norfolkbigfish, who has been editing articles about the crusades for years. I realised that his knowledge about the topic is extremly limited when I read his first remarks on my comments more than eight months ago. Now, I am sure that he has been editing without reading the sources he is citing. Instead, he reads one or two pages, tries to summarize them, but without a deeper knowledge and without understanding the context, his edits always contain a major error. Furthermore, his edits also always contain multiple spelling mistakes. To demonstrate my statements I refer to his following edits (but I can expand the list any time):
- 1. The article contained the following sentence "Raymond lost his life fighting against Nur ad-Din in the Battle of Inab in 1149." Norfolbigfish modified the text, stating that "Raymond II was killed fighting Nur ad-Din at the Battle of Inab." ([186]) After I asked him to refer to the source of his statement ([187]), he stated that the info correct, stating that he added a reference to verify the statement ([188]). The source did not verify the quoted sentence and I again asked him to verify it ([189]). In response, he stated that the sentence about Raymond II's death in the Battle of Inab is verified by the following text from a scholarly work: "Pons was killed and Raymond II captured by Zengi". I had to repeat the question, before he realised that Raymond (I) of Antioch was killed in the Battle of Inab and his death on the battlefield can hardly be verified by a text about the capture of Raymond II of Tripoli in a different battle. The example demonstrates not only Norfolkbigfish's limited knowledge about the crusades, but also his negligence when reading the sources.
- 2. The following edit did not contain a single factual error, but it was filled with typos ([190]). When dealing with him, an edit that only contains typos can be described as an achievement, so I thanked it.
- 3. He could not properly define the term "crusader states" although he had "completed" the article about them ([191], [192], [193]).
- 4. During the review of the article "Crusades" I placed various tags in many sentences that he had written. He did not understand my remarks and collected them and his comments under a separate title on the article's talk page. His comments clearly show he had not read the allegedly cited books or misinterpreted them.
Fixing his errors is an irksome duty. I have to dedicate more than 90% of my time on WP to fix his factual errors and mispellings. I suggested him to try to improve his knowledge about the crusades through editing more specific articles with a limited scope. He ignored my suggestion. After more than eight months I am convinced that articles about the crusades cannot be improved while Norfolkbigfish is allowed to edit them, so I suggest a topic ban for him. Borsoka (talk) 03:27, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
All my edits have been reliably sourced and cited. I am always willing to discuss on Talk Pages, and acknowledge when I make a mistake through misinterpretation. I am willing to engage in conflict resolution at any time over any of these issues, which are largely content rather than behavioural on my part. I think this is fairly reflected at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Crusader_states. The Crusader States article was moribund when I picked it up (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crusader_states&oldid=900764952). I edited and took it through a successful GAR. Review can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Crusader_states/GA1. The Crusades article was fairly disorganised when I came to the subject. I took that through a successful GAR ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Crusades/GA1 ) and a successful Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history ACR ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Crusades ). There followed three attempts at FAC Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Crusades/archive1, Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Crusades/archive2 and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Crusades/archive3, it was at the end of the third FAC that I first came across the complainant. FWIW I also picked up the neglected Historiography of the Crusades and took it through a successful GAR Talk:Historiography of the Crusades/GA1, and acknowledged that was as far as my sources and time would allow. At all times this demonstrated good faith, good sourcing and the ability to work with numerous editors. Both articles are summary articles in an area that is incredibably contested, broad and with vast amounts source material. Consensus requires editors to work together, and even then it may be impossible. I think the complaint is unfounded and the request for a topic ban unwarranted. At the same time, as ever I welcome constructive feedback. By way of context there is this quote referring to the complainant from Johnbod at Talk:Crusades In the 4 months since he started editing this page he has added 177,263 bytes in over 300 posts, producing many complaints about bullying etc, and largely changing the subject of the article by stealth. Johnbod (talk) 11:12, 29 February 2020 (UTC) Norfolkbigfish (talk) 14:51, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I have had the pleasure of involvement in this question earlier this year. I found Norfolkbigfish to be a hard working editor whose contributions have been overall positive. I was most impressed by his openness to constructive feedback at the FA review and the article Talk page. I found Borsoka to also be a hard working editor whose contributions have been overall positive. However, I found Borsoka to react extremely aggressively to feedback, and it is a real shame to see that his relationship with Norfolkbigfish has still not improved. I am convinced that if Borsoka had not lost his cool early on, this long-running argument would never have happened. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:32, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I can say as someone who theoretically should be involved in editing this topic area (it is, after all, closely related to many of my editing areas), I found the tone of the discourse on the various articles to be sub-par. And it's getting worse. Borsoka is occasionally correct on the issues... it is true that sometimes Norfolkbigfish isn't always perfect in understanding a source or creates typos, but I've found NBFish to be quite willing to correct. Borsoka needs to dramatically improve their talk page manner before anyone such as I feel any desire to step into the editing area - right now why by the gods above should I stick my head into a buzzsaw? --Ealdgyth (talk) 17:51, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- I used to be User:Lingzhi2. Ealdgyth is correct. This thread misses the mark. OneOffUserName (talk) 19:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I also found the discourse on the talkpage one-sided in tone, with Borsoka's tone significantly more problematic, especially in comparison to the willingness of NBF to listen to criticism/feedback and adjust when necessary. This is my field of training (graduate degree in medieval history with a concentration in crusade history), but I generally stay away from the topic on Wikipedia because of the strong feelings it evokes in many editors. In looking over some of Borsoka's objections/critiques, some were valid while others were...petty. One of the archived talkpage threads linked to is titled "vexatious tagging", which I'd call an accurate summary of the ongoing behavior. For an example, one of the diffs Borsoka provides here involves whether the crusader states of Outremer were established before or during the crusades (it's after, by the way), but did so by repeatedly tagging that line as "dubious", as if it were a significant distinction. Similarly, he argues in the talkpage about whether or not historians generally agree 1291 marked the end of the crusading period (they do) because of Cyprus, to which NBF replies that he meant the crusading period in the Holy Land. Borkosa chides him for not explicitly stating that, but the tagged text explicitly stated that. There isn't ANI-worthy bad behavior here by NBF, who is being courteous and collaborative over a lot of aggression regarding generally minor points. I also don't think there's ANI-worthy bad behavior by Borsoka, either, but he does need to tone it down and get a grip; the passive-aggressive "glad I could correct you" or "happy you were able to understand" comments on the article talkpage every time NBF compromises with him are snotty, as are the repeated statements that "we need an expert". Suggest this is closed with a reminder to Borsoka to assume good faith and for NBF to take a moment to proofread his edits for typos before saving. Grandpallama (talk) 20:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- 1. Yes, Norfolkbigfish achieved three GAs. Are you sure the articles were actually GAs? I reviewed the article "Crusades" during its FA candidate. It did not reach the level of a GA - or do you think misinterpreted sources, editorial bias and close paraphrasing are necessary to achieve a GA? OneOffUserName strongly supported its promotion as a FA, even sending me messages and pushing me to also support it - @OneOffUserName: do you really think you are in the position to comment on this issue? Norfolkbigfish's second "GA" is the "Crusader states" article. It also contained major errors - or do you think editors who misinterprete the cited sources and ignore major aspects of the topic should be rewarded? His third "GA" is the Historiography of the Crusades. Please read remarks by editors who are actually experts of the topic during the article's A-class review. 2. My communication style is mentioned in all above remarks. I wonder how would you react if you were described as a vandal after starting the review of an article or you were mentioned as an editor with a Catholic Middle European bias while you are reviewing the article? 3. @Ealdgyth:, you do not want to stick your head into a buzsaw, but I can share the Norfolkbigfish experience with you. For instance, review his last edit: [194]. I hope you realized that it contains not only mispellings, but also mispresentation of the cited source. I can edit the articles on which you are working in his style, because I am not an expert on your favorite fields of knowledge. Can you promise you will not take me to ANI after eight months? 4. Norfolkbigfish is described as a hard-working editor, but his readiness to manipulatively quote the cited sources is not mentioned. Is this the certain sign of a constructive editor? 5. Yes, I expanded the article about the Crusades. I added sections about the development of crusading ideology, about women's role in the movement, about the financing of the military expedition. I do not know how this changed "the subject of the article by stealth" as @Johnbod: claimed, but he probably can explain it. Neither do I understand Johnbod's reference to my complaints about bullying. 6. @Onceinawhile:, I have completed 70+ GAs (among them 10+ articles closely connected to the crusades) and 2 FAs. All articles were reviewed. Do you really think if I had reacted "extremely aggressively to feedback", those articles could have been promoted? In the closing note of one of the FAC reviews, the coordinater mentioned that "It's always gratifying to see serious concerns discussed in a collegial manner, as has been the case here." Norfolkbigfish's ignorance and negligence prevent all constructive discussions. 7. @Grandpallama:, could you refer to a single reliable source stating that the County of Edessa and the Principality of Antioch were created after the First Crusade as your above statement implies? Borsoka (talk) 03:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- ANI is for behavior, not content, but I will say there is a difference between the conquest of territories and laying the foundations of the crusader states and the later establishment of the organized, (ostensibly) unified crusader state that occurred only in the wake of the creation of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. As far as behavior goes here, if you really think you have the high ground, please re-read your preceding statement (
Norfolkbigfish's ignorance and negligence prevent all constructive discussions
) and pay attention to the fact that multiple editors are disputing that view. Not to mention the fact that said quote is indicative of the behavior problems multiple editors are saying you are displaying. The diffs you have provided, and the language which you are using, don't make you look particularly collaborative or collegial. Grandpallama (talk) 03:50, 8 July 2020 (UTC)- Yes ANI is for behaviour, not content, but you made a statement which cannot be verified by reliable sources. I repeat that Norfolkbigfish's ignorance and negligence prevent all consturctive discussions and I also offer you to share the Norfolkbigfish experience with you. I will edit any articles you are working on in his style if you promise you will not take me to ANI. Borsoka (talk) 04:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Refusing to sidetrack this discussion does not equate to an inability to support a statement that I made. Grandpallama (talk) 12:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, hi. I'm completely uninvolved in this, and cannot profess to any deep knowledge about the history of the period. That shouldn't really matter, since we're here to discuss conduct rather than content. Above, I observe however that there are three very experienced and talented editors saying that your conduct in this area is more problematic than that of the person you're here to report. I'd like to ask you whether you have reflected on that, and what conclusions you have drawn, if any? GirthSummit (blether) 06:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I reflected on that above: I offered them to edit articles they are working on in Norfolkbigfish's style for months. If they could fix my endless typos, misinterpretations, biased summaries for a period of eight months without making sarcastic remarks about my abilities, I would be ready to accept their judgement. Borsoka (talk) 06:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I'm afraid that I find it hard to interpret an offer like that as being serious, or as evidence of any genuine reflection.
- Let me try to put it another way. Normally in a thread like this, Editor A will start a thread saying that Editor B has been disruptively editing in a topic area, and link to CIR. Editors C, D and E will come along and say variations on the theme of 'Yeah, they're really disruptive, but we should give them some ROPE,' or 'Yeah, damn right, support TBAN this has got to stop.' This thread is unusual in that Editor A has said that Editor B is being disruptive, and Editors C, D and E have come along and said 'Actually, Editor A is really difficult to work with, whereas Editor B, while not perfect, is editing in good faith and has the capacity to take criticism on board'. That's unusual, and I'm not sure what to make of it - I'm inviting you to give your take on it. GirthSummit (blether) 07:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I maintain that an editor who is unable to make edits without 4-5 spelling mistakes, without misinterpretating the cited source at least once per edit should not edit. My offer is serious. Two or three editors expressed that they think I should cooperate with him and I should tone my behaviour down. I offered them to share the Norfolkbigfish experience with them for months. If they are able to cooperate with me for eight months while I am making typos and presenting my obvious misinterpretations of the cited sources, they are right. Please read his latest edit: it is filled with typos ([195]). (And it also contains misinterpretation of the cited source, but you stated you are not an expert.) Which is your favorite article? As soon as you name it, I will begin to edit it and I can offer you 4-5 typos per edits. I can also misinterprete any source, because English is not my first language. Are you ready to cooperate with an ignorant and negligent editor for months? I am ready to be ignorant and negligent and you can prove your ability to remain nice and cooperative. Borsoka (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, we're not going to topic ban someone on your say-so. If you think that this is a good line of argument to take to convince people that someone else, rather than yourself, has a problem with collaboration, I don't know what to say to you. If you start damaging articles to make a POINT, you can expect to be blocked, whether or not anyone has taken you up on this ridiculous offer. GirthSummit (blether) 08:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- –Yes, my offer is as ridiculous as all remarks above. None of you have whenever tried to cooperate with an ignorant and negligent editor for months and none of you is ready to try it. Nevertheless, I am convinced that WP is a healthy community - negligent and ignorant editors cannot survive for long. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the issue - even if I think you are all wrong. Borsoka (talk) 09:53, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Another "ridiculous remark": You should consider editing in some other areas and leaving the Crusades page alone. Your responses here and refusal to consider the possibility that your words and behavior are less than ideal are worrisome, and as I look through the diffs, so is your insistence that only your understanding of the content is correct. Grandpallama (talk) 12:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- –Yes, my offer is as ridiculous as all remarks above. None of you have whenever tried to cooperate with an ignorant and negligent editor for months and none of you is ready to try it. Nevertheless, I am convinced that WP is a healthy community - negligent and ignorant editors cannot survive for long. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the issue - even if I think you are all wrong. Borsoka (talk) 09:53, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Let's examine the core of your first remark sentence by sentence. 1. "This is my field of training (graduate degree in medieval history with a concentration in crusade history), but I generally stay away from the topic on Wikipedia because of the strong feelings it evokes in many editors." Do you really think it is relevant in this context? I have never met an editor to refer to their real life experience or degree, because most editors understand what the statement "WP is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" means. 2. "For an example, one of the diffs Borsoka provides here involves whether the crusader states of Outremer were established before or during the crusades (it's after, by the way), but did so by repeatedly tagging that line as "dubious", as if it were a significant distinction." You are proposing a topic ban, but you have so far failed to refer to a single reliable source stating that the County of Edessa and the Principality of Antioch were established during the aftermath of the First Crusade. Just for uninvolved editors my remark on the Talk page was the following: "The first sentence of the article is not verified in the main text. (Actually, it contradicts the main text, which says that the crusader states were established as a consequence of the First Crusade)." - interestingly Norfolkbigfish accepted it after three unsuccessful attempt to define the crusader states. 3. "Similarly, he argues in the talkpage about whether or not historians generally agree 1291 marked the end of the crusading period (they do) because of Cyprus, to which NBF replies that he meant the crusading period in the Holy Land. Borkosa chides him for not explicitly stating that, but the tagged text explicitly stated that." The problem is that I did not argue that 1291 marked the end of the crusading period or not and the tagged text explicitly does not say anything about the end of the crusading period. @Grandpallama: sorry but I still think your remarks were ridiculous: you shared an irrelevant detail of your life with us, you made a statement about the crusader states without referring to a single reliable source and you challenged a statement that I never made. Borsoka (talk) 15:22, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, we're not going to topic ban someone on your say-so. If you think that this is a good line of argument to take to convince people that someone else, rather than yourself, has a problem with collaboration, I don't know what to say to you. If you start damaging articles to make a POINT, you can expect to be blocked, whether or not anyone has taken you up on this ridiculous offer. GirthSummit (blether) 08:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I maintain that an editor who is unable to make edits without 4-5 spelling mistakes, without misinterpretating the cited source at least once per edit should not edit. My offer is serious. Two or three editors expressed that they think I should cooperate with him and I should tone my behaviour down. I offered them to share the Norfolkbigfish experience with them for months. If they are able to cooperate with me for eight months while I am making typos and presenting my obvious misinterpretations of the cited sources, they are right. Please read his latest edit: it is filled with typos ([195]). (And it also contains misinterpretation of the cited source, but you stated you are not an expert.) Which is your favorite article? As soon as you name it, I will begin to edit it and I can offer you 4-5 typos per edits. I can also misinterprete any source, because English is not my first language. Are you ready to cooperate with an ignorant and negligent editor for months? I am ready to be ignorant and negligent and you can prove your ability to remain nice and cooperative. Borsoka (talk) 08:03, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I reflected on that above: I offered them to edit articles they are working on in Norfolkbigfish's style for months. If they could fix my endless typos, misinterpretations, biased summaries for a period of eight months without making sarcastic remarks about my abilities, I would be ready to accept their judgement. Borsoka (talk) 06:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes ANI is for behaviour, not content, but you made a statement which cannot be verified by reliable sources. I repeat that Norfolkbigfish's ignorance and negligence prevent all consturctive discussions and I also offer you to share the Norfolkbigfish experience with you. I will edit any articles you are working on in his style if you promise you will not take me to ANI. Borsoka (talk) 04:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- ANI is for behavior, not content, but I will say there is a difference between the conquest of territories and laying the foundations of the crusader states and the later establishment of the organized, (ostensibly) unified crusader state that occurred only in the wake of the creation of the Kingdom of Jerusalem. As far as behavior goes here, if you really think you have the high ground, please re-read your preceding statement (
- 1. Yes, Norfolkbigfish achieved three GAs. Are you sure the articles were actually GAs? I reviewed the article "Crusades" during its FA candidate. It did not reach the level of a GA - or do you think misinterpreted sources, editorial bias and close paraphrasing are necessary to achieve a GA? OneOffUserName strongly supported its promotion as a FA, even sending me messages and pushing me to also support it - @OneOffUserName: do you really think you are in the position to comment on this issue? Norfolkbigfish's second "GA" is the "Crusader states" article. It also contained major errors - or do you think editors who misinterprete the cited sources and ignore major aspects of the topic should be rewarded? His third "GA" is the Historiography of the Crusades. Please read remarks by editors who are actually experts of the topic during the article's A-class review. 2. My communication style is mentioned in all above remarks. I wonder how would you react if you were described as a vandal after starting the review of an article or you were mentioned as an editor with a Catholic Middle European bias while you are reviewing the article? 3. @Ealdgyth:, you do not want to stick your head into a buzsaw, but I can share the Norfolkbigfish experience with you. For instance, review his last edit: [194]. I hope you realized that it contains not only mispellings, but also mispresentation of the cited source. I can edit the articles on which you are working in his style, because I am not an expert on your favorite fields of knowledge. Can you promise you will not take me to ANI after eight months? 4. Norfolkbigfish is described as a hard-working editor, but his readiness to manipulatively quote the cited sources is not mentioned. Is this the certain sign of a constructive editor? 5. Yes, I expanded the article about the Crusades. I added sections about the development of crusading ideology, about women's role in the movement, about the financing of the military expedition. I do not know how this changed "the subject of the article by stealth" as @Johnbod: claimed, but he probably can explain it. Neither do I understand Johnbod's reference to my complaints about bullying. 6. @Onceinawhile:, I have completed 70+ GAs (among them 10+ articles closely connected to the crusades) and 2 FAs. All articles were reviewed. Do you really think if I had reacted "extremely aggressively to feedback", those articles could have been promoted? In the closing note of one of the FAC reviews, the coordinater mentioned that "It's always gratifying to see serious concerns discussed in a collegial manner, as has been the case here." Norfolkbigfish's ignorance and negligence prevent all constructive discussions. 7. @Grandpallama:, could you refer to a single reliable source stating that the County of Edessa and the Principality of Antioch were created after the First Crusade as your above statement implies? Borsoka (talk) 03:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
@Borsoka: Apart from this thread, you have another open on the talk page, and another from last month where Iridescent warned you about the bombardment with warnings and personal comments from you I see on User talk:Norfolkbigfish
. Perhaps a one-way IBan would help? ——Serial # 15:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I do not understand what "a one-way IBan" means. I rarely take other editors to ANI. If "a one-wy IBan" means that I will be banned from editing for ever, I will accept it. I have become more and more convinced that WP is alien to me. Borsoka (talk) 15:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I may offer some unsolicited advice, you're escalating quite quickly here and it might do well to take a deep breath. On Wikipedia, we are called upon to tolerate those with whom we disagree, those whom we think are less adept editors, and yes, even typos. Article improvement is not a straight line; but even setbacks can ultimately lead to a better final product. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 16:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
you shared an irrelevant detail of your life with us
Are you fucking kidding me? You're the one who has repeatedly called in his edit summaries for experts to weigh in at the article talkpage. Then I identify my background (for the first time in over a decade on Wikipedia, in fact) in order to explain why I'm weighing in at ANI, and because you don't like what I say, my background is irrelevant? I also didn't propose a topic ban, and your characterizations of your own statements on the article talkpage are factually incorrect (i.e., the diff to the "vexatious tagging" discussion that you provided explicitly shows you arguing about 1291 and the Holy Land as if you hadn't even read the text you tagged); I'm starting to think I should propose a TBAN based on what seems to increasingly be reading comprehension difficulties, whether because of WP:IDHT or because of some other issue, both at the article and at ANI. Walk away and drop the stick, Borsoka. I'm already prepared to support any one-way IBAN proposal regarding NBF, as Serial Number suggested, based upon your demonstrated battleground mentality here and your refusal to even consider you might be the issue. Grandpallama (talk) 16:19, 8 July 2020 (UTC)- If you think an "expert" in WP is an editor with an academic degree, I think we do not understand each other. I still maintain that you misinterprete my statement about 1291. However, I will gladly accept any ban. Although I still do not know what a "one-way IBan" or "one-way IBAN" means, but I am sure you have been convinced that I have to be punished for my sins. Just another question, can I receive a badge or similar about my one-way IBan or IBAN to place it on my User page? Borsoka (talk) 17:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- How is the view from up there these days? Dumuzid (talk) 17:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, a one-way iBan means that you are not permitted to interact with, or comment on, the other editor named in the ban - that would extend to reverting their edits. It would perhaps give you a degree of freedom from what you seem to perceive as your duty to correct what you see as mistakes in their editing - if such mistakes occur, you would not be permitted to address them, that would be down to others. You can see more at WP:IBAN. GirthSummit (blether) 17:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for the above clarification. Now I understand what will be my punishment for my sins. In the region of the world where I live, we are informed about the nature of the punishment before we receive it. I would really enjoy this punishmen. It would give me a place in WP heaven. Can I place a last message on Norfolkbigfish's Talk page before receiving my IBAN? I would like to suggest him to approach the editors who vote for my IBAN, because they would like to experience the joy of cooperating with him for months. He should not deprive them of this joy. Borsoka (talk) 17:27, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- If you think an "expert" in WP is an editor with an academic degree, I think we do not understand each other. I still maintain that you misinterprete my statement about 1291. However, I will gladly accept any ban. Although I still do not know what a "one-way IBan" or "one-way IBAN" means, but I am sure you have been convinced that I have to be punished for my sins. Just another question, can I receive a badge or similar about my one-way IBan or IBAN to place it on my User page? Borsoka (talk) 17:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- If I may offer some unsolicited advice, you're escalating quite quickly here and it might do well to take a deep breath. On Wikipedia, we are called upon to tolerate those with whom we disagree, those whom we think are less adept editors, and yes, even typos. Article improvement is not a straight line; but even setbacks can ultimately lead to a better final product. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 16:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I do not understand what "a one-way IBan" means. I rarely take other editors to ANI. If "a one-wy IBan" means that I will be banned from editing for ever, I will accept it. I have become more and more convinced that WP is alien to me. Borsoka (talk) 15:52, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I generally agree with the comments above of Onceinawhile, Ealdgyth, OneOffUserName, Girth Summit, Grandpallama and others. I've been amazed at Norfolkbigfish's patience & restraint under a long-term barrage of abuse. I had lots of comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Crusades/archive1 his first FAC run in 2017, which rather stalled & was archived without passing. The 2nd one in June 19
is currently mostly invisible from a template lurgynow fixed - thanks Choess!- Ealdgyth, anyone?I think I contributed [actually I see I hardly did]. The Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Crusades/archive3#Johnbod third one also stalled before I'd completed comments. I think this was the first time Borsoka reviewed - interesting to see that he began "I think this is an excellent article, summarizing most important aspects of the crusades", and later "No, I am not an expert [on the Crusades]". I think this review was the point where things began to go wrong. I've always found Norfolkbigfish polite & pleasant, if inclined to let things drag on. Frankly I don't know why he persists with this article under these conditions. I haven't delved into my books on the recent issues (they are in boxes somewhere), & no doubt Borsoka is often right on points of detail. He had his particular angle in the FAC, but now seems to be attacking everything Norfolkbigfish does, which I doubt is right. Johnbod (talk) 02:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for your comment. I think your comment is the first one properly summarizing the case. 1. Yes, for the first time I went through the article very quickly and I was impressed by Norfolkbigfish's style. However, it was also obvious that the article does not cover crusading privileges properly. I raised the issue and Norfolkbigfish answered that they are mentioned seven times - which was true: they were mentioned randomly, but they were not mentioned in the context of the First Crusade or its background. Everybody knows the importance of crusading privileges - so Norfolkbigfish's response rang my bell. ([196], [197]) 2. His answers about the political crusades also convinced me that his knowledge about the crusades is very limited. For instance, he said that the Aragonese crusade (proclaimed in favor of Charles I of Anjou) was mentioned together with Louis IX's crusade because Charles I of Anjou was Louis IX's brother (link to the whole issue: [198]). 3. I started a more thorough review and I realized that the article contains plenty of errors and stated that I oppose its promotion ([199]). Do you think FAC is the proper place to write a FA? 4. I also realized that his methods are not always fair. He stated that my statement about three unverified sentences in the article was untrue - after he deleted one of the sentences and added citations to the remaining two sentences ([200]). Later he went as far as quoting a truncated text (describing the situation in Anatolia after 1070) to verify his statement covering 8th-11th-century Palestine ([201]). 5. He also stated on my Talk page that my edits are close to vandalism. 6. Yes, it was my first review. And I was totally astonished that there are editors who obviously had no knowledge about the crusades, but they are reviewing an FAC about the crusades and are pushing me to promote it - I refer to Lingzhi2 who also commented on this issue above after Norfolkbigfish approached him for "a kind word". 7. I am not an expert. What is the difference between myself and Norfolkbigfish that I have read dozens of books about the crusades before starting to edit on this field. 8. Nevertheless, an IBAN would be the heaven for me - I do not want to deprive other editors of cooperating closely with the talented Mr Norfolkbigfish. 9. @Johnbod: just a last question, because you actually studied his edits - I am convinced that he had a strong pro-Turkish and a less obvious anti-Armenian bias. Do you agree? Borsoka (talk) 04:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't remember being conscious of either, and would rather doubt it frankly. It might be some of his sources. He is at the least based in England, and until recently mainly wrote on English medieval history - I may first have encountered him in 2013, when I was (rather fatally) an opposer at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/House of Plantagenet/archive1. Johnbod (talk) 08:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for your comment. I think your comment is the first one properly summarizing the case. 1. Yes, for the first time I went through the article very quickly and I was impressed by Norfolkbigfish's style. However, it was also obvious that the article does not cover crusading privileges properly. I raised the issue and Norfolkbigfish answered that they are mentioned seven times - which was true: they were mentioned randomly, but they were not mentioned in the context of the First Crusade or its background. Everybody knows the importance of crusading privileges - so Norfolkbigfish's response rang my bell. ([196], [197]) 2. His answers about the political crusades also convinced me that his knowledge about the crusades is very limited. For instance, he said that the Aragonese crusade (proclaimed in favor of Charles I of Anjou) was mentioned together with Louis IX's crusade because Charles I of Anjou was Louis IX's brother (link to the whole issue: [198]). 3. I started a more thorough review and I realized that the article contains plenty of errors and stated that I oppose its promotion ([199]). Do you think FAC is the proper place to write a FA? 4. I also realized that his methods are not always fair. He stated that my statement about three unverified sentences in the article was untrue - after he deleted one of the sentences and added citations to the remaining two sentences ([200]). Later he went as far as quoting a truncated text (describing the situation in Anatolia after 1070) to verify his statement covering 8th-11th-century Palestine ([201]). 5. He also stated on my Talk page that my edits are close to vandalism. 6. Yes, it was my first review. And I was totally astonished that there are editors who obviously had no knowledge about the crusades, but they are reviewing an FAC about the crusades and are pushing me to promote it - I refer to Lingzhi2 who also commented on this issue above after Norfolkbigfish approached him for "a kind word". 7. I am not an expert. What is the difference between myself and Norfolkbigfish that I have read dozens of books about the crusades before starting to edit on this field. 8. Nevertheless, an IBAN would be the heaven for me - I do not want to deprive other editors of cooperating closely with the talented Mr Norfolkbigfish. 9. @Johnbod: just a last question, because you actually studied his edits - I am convinced that he had a strong pro-Turkish and a less obvious anti-Armenian bias. Do you agree? Borsoka (talk) 04:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka: serious question, because I'm finding it difficult to tell whether you are being serious in some of the statements you've made above. You've said more than once that you would welcome a one-way IBAN with NBF - are you being ironic, or was that said in earnest? GirthSummit (blether) 09:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have been always serious. Yes, I could accept any ban, IBAN, TBAN or what you think is a proper punishment. If I were not banned, sooner or later I would start to fix Norfolkbigfish's edits. I am sure I would make dozens of sarcastic comments about them and this is a deadly sin in our community. Can you answer my previous question? Can I receive a badge or something similar about the ban? I would like to place it on the top of my User page because I will always be proud of my punishment. Thank you all for this experience. I really enjoyed it. Borsoka (talk) 09:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, we're not talking about punishment - we're talking about preventing disruption. Sarcastic comments are not a 'deadly sin' here, they are unfortunately commonplace (despite their being an ineffective way to communicate in a text-only environment populated by editors with significant differences in culture and levels of fluency in English). Your sin, if you have one, has been an apparent failure to even consider the possibility that, when half a dozen people disagree with you and nobody seems to agree with you, you might not be entirely in the right.
- Once again, I find myself wondering how much of your statement is in earnest, and how much is ironic - since I genuinely can't tell, I'll answer the question about a badge as if it were serious: no, of course you couldn't have a banner celebrating an IBAN. You would not be able to comment on the other person in any way whatsoever. No userboxen, no topicon, nothing. It would be logged here, and you would just have to remember to abide by it. GirthSummit (blether) 10:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I have been always serious. Yes, I could accept any ban, IBAN, TBAN or what you think is a proper punishment. If I were not banned, sooner or later I would start to fix Norfolkbigfish's edits. I am sure I would make dozens of sarcastic comments about them and this is a deadly sin in our community. Can you answer my previous question? Can I receive a badge or something similar about the ban? I would like to place it on the top of my User page because I will always be proud of my punishment. Thank you all for this experience. I really enjoyed it. Borsoka (talk) 09:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for your answer. Please believe me I am always serious. Can I celebrate my IBAN or whatever ban at the top of my user page? Can I link this thread to it? Borsoka (talk) 10:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I thought I just answered that - no, you wouldn't be able to 'celebrate' an IBAN on your userpage. I will propose that the IBAN be enacted below. GirthSummit (blether) 10:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Girth Summit: this is my very own private IBAN. Why could I not mention it at the top of my User page? For instance, "Hereby I announce that I am under an IBAN. I am really proud of it." Could you refer to a WP policy forbidding me to celebrate my IBAN? I am serious. Borsoka (talk) 12:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I thought I just answered that - no, you wouldn't be able to 'celebrate' an IBAN on your userpage. I will propose that the IBAN be enacted below. GirthSummit (blether) 10:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Proposal
I suggest that the community impose a one-way IBAN on Borsoka with regards to Norfolkbigfish. Borsoka seems to want one, it would perhaps help them feel like they don't have to be the one to address any perceived issues with NBF's editing, or feel the need to repeatedly open threads at various venues about them. GirthSummit (blether) 10:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I do not understand the following part of the text: ", or feel the need to repeatedly open threads at various venues about them". This is my very first thread. I raised a theoretical question twice - it was not me, who revealed that I may refer to Norfolkbigfish. Please do not suggest that I took him to ANI several times. Yes, I know I should have taken him to ANI months ago, but I failed. Borsoka (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I was referring to the discussions that SN mentioned in his earlier post - that's why I said 'at various venues'. If you think the wording of the proposal is unfair, I'll be happy to amend it. GirthSummit (blether) 15:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I do not understand the following part of the text: ", or feel the need to repeatedly open threads at various venues about them". This is my very first thread. I raised a theoretical question twice - it was not me, who revealed that I may refer to Norfolkbigfish. Please do not suggest that I took him to ANI several times. Yes, I know I should have taken him to ANI months ago, but I failed. Borsoka (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- As I stated above, I raised a theoretical/technical question twice, without mentioning Norfolkbigfish. Am I reasponsible for the words of administrators who did not answer my question, but began to investigate the (still not existing) case? If I am not responsible for their words, I would like to ask you to delete the part of the text I quoted above. Borsoka (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka: struck per your request. GirthSummit (blether) 16:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you. It is OK for me, provided my limited knowledge about the crusades and my disability to understand basic information in English do not require a more severe sanction. May I ask a last favor? Could you answer my question above, I would like to know which WP policy forbades me to celebrate my IBAN/TBAN/whatever ban on my Talk page? Borsoka (talk) 17:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I don't understand your statement about having a disability - I'm not sure what you're trying to convey there. The answer to the second question is found at WP:IBAN - specifically, you would not be permitted to
make reference to or comment on each other anywhere on Wikipedia, directly or indirectly
- a reference to an IBAN would be an indirect reference to the editor that the IBAN is with, and hence not permitted. GirthSummit (blether) 18:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Borsoka, I don't understand your statement about having a disability - I'm not sure what you're trying to convey there. The answer to the second question is found at WP:IBAN - specifically, you would not be permitted to
- As I stated above, I raised a theoretical/technical question twice, without mentioning Norfolkbigfish. Am I reasponsible for the words of administrators who did not answer my question, but began to investigate the (still not existing) case? If I am not responsible for their words, I would like to ask you to delete the part of the text I quoted above. Borsoka (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I am not a native speaker, so I easily misunderstand English sentences - as two administrators and Norfolkbigfish has (!!!) explained to me. OK, this is a secret punishment which actually is not a punishment, but it is a secret. Thank you for the clarification. I more and more enjoy this procedure - we are in the Roman Age. Borsoka (talk) 19:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support per my comments in the thread. However, Girth Summit, it's not clear to me that Borsoka fully understands the IBAN or what it's going to entail, or that we've fully thought through the likely outcome here. From looking through the article history, NBF's work on the article is so extensive and regular that an IBAN is going to work out to a de facto page ban for Borsoka (which I wouldn't be opposed to, but which I'm not sure he realizes); it's not absolute, but pretty significant. I also suspect Borsoka hasn't realized that a one-way IBAN means he can't touch and/or comment on NBF's edits to that page (or others), but that the same restriction is not placed on NBF. From what I've seen, it's not going to be pretty the first time NBF tweaks a Borsoka edit. The repeated accusations of bad faith, the self-imposed need to "police" NBF, the request to put one last message on NBF's talkpage, the speculation about NBF's nationality, etc., all suggest to me that the nature of the IBAN needs to be clearly laid out to Borsoka and that admins need to be pretty unforgiving in enforcing it. Grandpallama (talk) 13:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe, but I think the Crusades are pretty much the only area where their editing interests meet, so he may just have to stop editing on the subject. Johnbod (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's what I was trying to drive at. This IBAN is, in effect, likely a TBAN. Grandpallama (talk) 14:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe, but I think the Crusades are pretty much the only area where their editing interests meet, so he may just have to stop editing on the subject. Johnbod (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I understand that I cannot interact with him at any area. I also understand that Grandpallama want to achieve a TBAN against me. I was considering to create new timelines about the crusader states and the crusades, but I and the comunnity can live wirhout my new articles. I really enjoy Grandpallama's comments - he is a main reason I am proud of any ban. I waited more than eight months to take Norfolkbigfish to ANI after he called me a vandal and referred to my country of origin and to my (assumed) religion in a negative context. Grandpallama is ready to expel me from any territory a day after I stated that his statements are funny or baseless (although I demonstrated above that at least three of his statements are funny or baseless). Grandpallama please suggest a TBAN for me. I promise I will never ask you to refer to a reliable source stating that the County of Edessa and the Principality of Antioch were established after the First Crusade.Borsoka (talk) 14:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Borsoka: for the record, as long as its a IBan and not a TBan, you can create any article you like (subject to the usual), and if you do it in your userspace, no-one else should touch it either. So it doesn't restrict you from writing new articles: just from interacting with another editor once they're in mainspace. See what I mean? ——Serial # 14:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Good grief. Grandpallama (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you. I perfectly understood it. Borsoka (talk) 15:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC) Nevertheless, if any administrator proposes a TBAN I will also accept it. Grandpallama, you have already concluded that my knowledge and language skills prevent me from adding value to the community in this area (crusades). Make your proposal. Borsoka (talk) 15:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I may be wrong, because I cannot understand basic English sentences, but I think this thread has reached a stalemate. 1. I am still convinced that Norfolkbigfish should not edit articles about the crusades, because his knowledge on the subject is limited, his edits are always extremly negligent and often biased. 2. I am still sure that none of the administrators who have made comments during this procedure were able to cooperate with Norfolkbigfish even for a month if he began to make regular edits in articles on which they had previously worked heavily. 3. On the other hand, I must acknowledge that I have been unable to convince a single administrator that Norfolkbigfish should be "rewarded" with a TBAN. (I was taught that a ban should not be mentioned as a punishment.) 4. I also must admit that I adopted a stronger language when communicating with Norfolkbigfish than it is usually expected in our community. Based on the previous statements, A) I am ready to refrain from making ad personam remarks on Norfolkbigfish; B) I am ready not to edit the articles Crusades, Crusader states and Historiography of the Crusades; C) I am ready to refrain from taking Norfolkbigfish to ANI for whatever reason, save edit warring or vandalism; however, D) I claim the right to review the three articles, but without opposing their promotion as a FA/GA; E) I claim the right to revert or comment Norfolkbigfish's edits in articles that I created or I proposed to be a GA/FA. I emphasize if the administrators decide that I should be "rewarded" with a IBAN or TBAN, I am still ready to accept their decision, because anything is better than fixing his edits. Borsoka (talk) 06:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
D) I claim the right to review the three articles, but without opposing their promotion as a FA/GA; E) I claim the right to revert or comment Norfolkbigfish's edits in articles that I created or I proposed to be a GA/FA.
- With an IBAN in place, you would not be allowed to do those things, as they would involve interacting with NBF. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I know. My above comment contained an alternative. Borsoka (talk) 03:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- One which I am certain the community will not accept, as it does nothing to solve the problem. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I know. My above comment contained an alternative. Borsoka (talk) 03:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I may be wrong, because I cannot understand basic English sentences, but I think this thread has reached a stalemate. 1. I am still convinced that Norfolkbigfish should not edit articles about the crusades, because his knowledge on the subject is limited, his edits are always extremly negligent and often biased. 2. I am still sure that none of the administrators who have made comments during this procedure were able to cooperate with Norfolkbigfish even for a month if he began to make regular edits in articles on which they had previously worked heavily. 3. On the other hand, I must acknowledge that I have been unable to convince a single administrator that Norfolkbigfish should be "rewarded" with a TBAN. (I was taught that a ban should not be mentioned as a punishment.) 4. I also must admit that I adopted a stronger language when communicating with Norfolkbigfish than it is usually expected in our community. Based on the previous statements, A) I am ready to refrain from making ad personam remarks on Norfolkbigfish; B) I am ready not to edit the articles Crusades, Crusader states and Historiography of the Crusades; C) I am ready to refrain from taking Norfolkbigfish to ANI for whatever reason, save edit warring or vandalism; however, D) I claim the right to review the three articles, but without opposing their promotion as a FA/GA; E) I claim the right to revert or comment Norfolkbigfish's edits in articles that I created or I proposed to be a GA/FA. I emphasize if the administrators decide that I should be "rewarded" with a IBAN or TBAN, I am still ready to accept their decision, because anything is better than fixing his edits. Borsoka (talk) 06:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you. I perfectly understood it. Borsoka (talk) 15:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC) Nevertheless, if any administrator proposes a TBAN I will also accept it. Grandpallama, you have already concluded that my knowledge and language skills prevent me from adding value to the community in this area (crusades). Make your proposal. Borsoka (talk) 15:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I understand that I cannot interact with him at any area. I also understand that Grandpallama want to achieve a TBAN against me. I was considering to create new timelines about the crusader states and the crusades, but I and the comunnity can live wirhout my new articles. I really enjoy Grandpallama's comments - he is a main reason I am proud of any ban. I waited more than eight months to take Norfolkbigfish to ANI after he called me a vandal and referred to my country of origin and to my (assumed) religion in a negative context. Grandpallama is ready to expel me from any territory a day after I stated that his statements are funny or baseless (although I demonstrated above that at least three of his statements are funny or baseless). Grandpallama please suggest a TBAN for me. I promise I will never ask you to refer to a reliable source stating that the County of Edessa and the Principality of Antioch were established after the First Crusade.Borsoka (talk) 14:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
On that note then, I Support imposing an IBAN per Borsoka's acceptance above, and encourage an admin to close this discussion. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:27, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Editor deleting material from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi saying that "Sources which are associated with groups militarily active against Zarqawi/ISIS are not reliable."
The subject of the article is a well-known terrorist, but User:Nuruddin Zengi is deleting anything that suggests that, ignoring the sources, eg [202] here. User:TheTimesAreAChanging and I have reverted. In the normal course of events I might block, but I'm in a content dispute with him over his use of primary sources (OR). Another of his edit summaries says "Opinions of people who you are at war with would be biased, also about 99% of references here about a Muslim, Arab person is from non-Muslim, non-Arabs. You should probably check that." Doug Weller talk 18:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Blocked 31 hours for edit warring across multiple articles. I have a feeling that block will become indefinite. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:20, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yup,
Confirmed to a case I'll create in a minute. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:28, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yup,
Jersey Crabs help
Hi there. I was looking through the log of Draft:Jersey Crabs and it was deleted through G5 and G6. Recently, Jersey Crabs was created [203], albeit in user space and looks like a fully developed article at the time of it's creation, including some draft templates. Could someone possibly look to see if the deleted draft version matches that version of the article? If it does, it probably needs a histmerge. Thanks! BOVINEBOY2008 18:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, it's identical, and the draft should have been histmerged. I'll take care of it. Thanks for the heads up! @Ged UK: FYI. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Disruption by George Al-Shami at Paul Anka and Najeeb Halaby
- Paul Anka (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Najeeb Halaby (edit talk history links watch logs)
- George Al-Shami (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This editor is adding his original research to the high qualities sources I have brought to both Halaby's and Anka's articles (biographies, oral recordings and high quality secondary sources from experts in genealogy) by merging sentences that are separate in the sources I brought to implicate something that contradicts the first sentence, by publishing information from those sources that has been questioned by experts therefore not totally proven even if said in those primary sources, by adding things that have not been really said in the sources such as Bab Touma being the old District of Damascus and then adding less notable sources and deleting the more reliable higher quality ones to support his violations to Wikipedia guidelines.
On top of that this user wikihounded to try to discredit my well sourced edits accusing me of having an agenda to get away with his violations. Back when he violated Wikpedia guidelines in the Halaby article I left it alone and didnt continue the argument in the Talk Page but he has decided then to wikihound me and reversed my edit on the Maronites article where he added or kept an outdated source and now wikihounded me to my Paul Anka edit and violate the Wikipedia guidelines there as well and keep disrupting me. I have tried to reach consensus with you a 2nd time without any progress as can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paul_Anka#Paul_Anka's_Lebanese_descent_in_his_autobiography_and_own_words_in_radio_interview
Now he is back after not reaching the consensus for a 2nd time and makes a long edit that is not concise and with excessive wording to keep confusing readers implying origins about the personality that the personality has never mentioned or implied himself.Chris O' Hare (talk) 22:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Chris O' Hare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is making unfair and false allegations. I have cited what the source specifically says. In the case of Najeeb Halaby, in the memoir source Chris O' Hare uses, Najeeb maintains that his family is from Aleppo; and that's what I added. Here's the proof https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&type=revision&diff=960795238&oldid=960757668. I invite any administrative editor to check the sources I used for Paul Anka; here's the diff https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Anka&type=revision&diff=964389958&oldid=964386424.
- Please look at what Chris O' Hare has done here..
- 1) On March 24 he adds a New York Times source to Najeeb Halaby's article that states he is Lebanese/Syrian and adds the nationalistic designation "Lebanese", which I don't object to, because it's referenced with a credible source, the NYT.
Here's the diff https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&type=revision&diff=947160336&oldid=913707962.
- 2) Then on March 26, 2020 after seeing that no one objected to his addition of "Lebanese" and his NYT source which refers to Halaby as "Lebanese/Syrian", he removes the national designation "Syrian"; even though that's what his chosen source states; this will clearly show that the said editor is not making edits in good faith.
::Here's the diff https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&type=revision&diff=958972497&oldid=953674217.
- 3) With regards to Paul Anka, I am directly quoting him from the source Chris is using. With regards to the Maronite page that used to be on my watchlist, until I removed it. Chris is deliberately being untruthful here. After a lengthy discussion with the said editor there was no consensus reached; again he is being untruthful. George Al-Shami (talk) 00:05, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Gentlemen, not being abke to reach a consensus is not a behavioral issue. Follow the procedures at WP:DR. This should be closed. John from Idegon (talk) 02:02, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
John from Idegon this is not about not being able to reach a consensus, dont be distracted by editor Al-Shami's claim of false allegations and please take a look at his disruptive ways.
I have put hard work researching and bringing 5 high quality reliable non-biased sources to these two articles and adhering to wikipedia policies and guidelines. In the past this user has violated many policies by merging sentences that are separate in the sources I brought to implicate something that contradicts the first sentence and by publishing information from those sources that has been questioned by experts such as american genealogist Henry Louis Gates in the Halaby article and therefore not totally proven even if said in those primary sources I have brought.
He has also added things that have not been really said in the sources such as Bab Touma being the old District of Damascus when the author has said the Bab Touma his grandfather emigrated from was a small town and then adding less notable sources and deleting the more reliable higher quality ones to support his violations to Wikipedia guidelines.
On top of that please see that this user has been wikihounding me in order to disrupt my work and to try to discredit my well sourced edits accusing me of having an agenda to get away with his violations. Back when he violated Wikpedia guidelines in the Halaby article I left it alone and didnt continue the argument in the Talk Page but he has decided then to wikihound me after into two different articles as you can see how after I left the Halaby discussion he reversed my edit on the Maronites article where he added or kept an outdated source and now has wikihounded me to my Paul Anka edit and violate the Wikipedia guidelines there as well and keep disrupting me.
After leaving the consensus building in the Talk Page the user has come back to add a new disruptive edit where he has relocated all 4 sources and placed them at the end of his unnecessarily long quote as to make it seem all four sources say the same thing and support this long quote which is not the case.
Again, this is not about inability to reach consensus but about an user that keeps being disruptive and violating policies.Chris O' Hare (talk) 10:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Clearly you are at an impass. But you haven't pointed to anyplace anyone had violated any policy. Succinctly please, provide evidence abd leave all the essay behind. Like this:
- in (x diff) he violated (A policy)
- in (y diff) he violated (B policy)
- etc
- For these violations, I'd like to see him (topic banned), (interaction banned), (blocked), (sitebanned), (executed at sunrise).
- It may be you have a legit complaint, but I cannot see it, and I'd guess that's why no one else has responded. This is a busy board. It doesn't deal with content disputes. Verbose complaints regularly get ignored. If you want action, help yourself and present something that can be easily acted upon. John from Idegon (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
John from Idegon he has no legit complaint, I've been a registered user since 2006 and I am well aware of Wikipedia's policies, however Chris is fairly new to this project and he is using this board to intimidate me and prevent me from reverting his violation of WP:NPOV. Please look at the evidence, he's deliberately trying to confuse and distract everyoone on this noticeboard and is very untruthful; none of his allegations are backed by the evidence. I'm using the same memoir source he is using. The problem is that he wants to keep one line on the same page that subscribes to his POV, but ignore and then change the following line that doesn't subscribe to his POV. Chris has done that on more than one article that was on my watchlist. He mentions that I'm wikihounding, again, that's another false accusation. In order to stay NPOV and neutral I placed a direct source of what the author says in his memoir.
There is a pattern to his behavior where he hits the articles on Syrian/Lebanese people and he removes the reference to the Syrian ancestry. He purports to be following Wiki polices, but he misuses them to keep his POV in the article.
Here's the evidence.
- The author in his memoir says this My parents were of Lebanese Christian descent and the name Anka itself had an almost folkloric history attached to it. It means noose in "Arabic" and it came about in this way: In a small town in Syria called Bab Tuma -where my ancestors are from- a man raped a young girl of thirteen.Chris in the beginning totally ignored the second line, after a lengthy discussion he added that his grandfather immigrated to Canada from Damascus, Syria; however Chris violates WP:OR as the source says that he has ancestors/ancestry from Bab Touma, Syria. Adding Damascus, is not the issue because Bab Touma is in Damascus (it's a geographic fact) however none of the sources says that his grandfather immigrated to Canada from Damascus, Syria, therefore I want to keep both - per source- however Chris is changing it to conceal/hide the fact that the subject has ancestries from both countries and thereby violates WP:NPOV.
- In a 1960 Life magazine article, the article says The only place Paul was not an immediate international success was with his Syrian father, Andrew Anka, whose parents came from Damascus; this backs the memoir source, which shows that subject's father has ancestry in Syria, but again Chris violates WP:NPOV and reverts any mention of the "Syrian ancestry" part even though it's backed by these two sources, here's the diff #[204].
- On the Najeeb Halaby article he removed reference to his Syrian ancestry that his own source backed up: Here's the diff #[205] he violated WP:NPOV by dropping what the second sentence said in main memoir source he is using and in what is presented in other sources. After a lengthy discussion and after I presented a number of primary and secondary sources he backed off.
- On Paul Anka article he again, like clockwork, removes the reference to Syrian ancestry. here's the diff #[206] he violated WP:NPOV even though the memoir source he is using has a contradiction where the author mentions "Lebanese descent" and then on the following line the author mentions "Ancestors from Bab Touma, Syria". To stay NPOV I wanted to keep both, but in our lengthy discussion the author kept coming up with baseless arguments just not include the contradiction and stay NPOV.
- On his charge that I'm Wikihounding him, that's not true. The diff will show that I was editing this article long before the said editor became a registered user. #[207].
- For this, and since Chris is a fairly new editor, I would like a warning to be sent to Chris O'Hare about the need to include the sourced contradictions to stay in compliance with WP:NPOV.
- An ip editor adds a news outlet source, here's the diff #[208], but since the source doesn't support Chris's POV, he keeps deleting it. Here's the diff *[209], which shows his deletion of the ip editor's source and the removal of my additions where I add a direct source so that there's no deception or misrepresentation of the source.
- So when using the Paul Anka memoir source, when Paul Anka backs Chris's POV, Chris uses it, but when Paul Anka says his ancestors are from Damascus, Syria..in the following line, he second-guesses the author and removes the second line about second ancestry. Is that acceptable behavior here on Wikipedia?
- Furthermore, as of this writing, the said editor has reverted to his POV. In order to avoid getting into an edit war with the said editor and since consensus was not reached, I kindly ask someone to revert Chris's edit to on June 24 and restore the version before he started removing reference to Syrian ancestry. (Here's the diff #[210])George Al-Shami (talk) 19:42, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- And I'll tell you the same thing I told him. If you want action on your complaint, succinctly state what policy he violated in what diff and what you want done. No one is going to read either your, nor his, diarrhea of the keyboard. Have respect for your fellow editors. We're volunteers too. If you want action succinctly state what the policy violation is, provide diffs for it, and request what action you want. The purpose of an encyclopedia article is to summarize what others have written about the subject. If you cannot summarize your own thoughts, how do you expect to successfully edit here? John from Idegon (talk) 21:53, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- I provided 3 diffs above and the policies he violated. My apologies for not being succinct enough.George Al-Shami (talk) 22:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&diff=959107360&oldid=958996232 commits WP:VAND by deleting the highest quality most reliable non-biased source that can be added to a bio article which is his/her autobiography, where it says his father was from Zahle, Lebanon. His WP:VAND also deleted the highest quality secondary source out there which is a book by Henry Louis Gates which states that eventhough Halaby states his grandparents were from Aleppo that they might also be from Zahle, Beirut or Damascus since his last name Halaby doesnt necessarily means they came from Aleppo but adopted the surname many generations back.
- In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&diff=960795238&oldid=960757668 he comes back and publishes the unproven or questioned by Gates information about his grandparents and states it as a fact and violates WP:SECONDARY by not adding a second sentence saying that this has been put to question by Henry Louis Gates as a sourced secondary source as per wikipedia policies in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source#Strengths_and_weaknesses. By failing to do this he is also violating The Association of Professional Genealogists's Code of Ethics which states "do not publish unproven information as proven" as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy#Ethical_guidelines As I understand if something is not proven its either left out or the secondary sources need to be mentioned. I tried explaining him this is a violation of the guidelines but after I long discussion he fails to understand his violation as can be seen here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Najeeb_Halaby#Najeeb_Halaby_Lebanese_Origins. I decided to move on eventhough his edit violated the guidelines.
- In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maronites&diff=960408942&oldid=960397246 he violates WP:HOUND after he got away with his previous disruption and wikihounds me to my edition on another article to continue disrupting my editing and reverts my edition of a poorly sourced (outdated sources) with plain false statements and unexplained deletions and reverses it to the previous poorly sourced and disruptive edit again committing WP:DISRUPTSIGNS.
- In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Anka&diff=964302145&oldid=964228845 after I fixed the previous source with updated sources he violates WP:HOUND again and follows me to my new edit and violates WP:SYN by merging two sentences of the source to contradict what the first sentence said as to imply something that is not stated in the autobiography which I brought to this bio as the most reliable source about Anka's descent. He also violates WP:OR by linking Paul Anka's Bab Touma, which he claims in his bio is a SMALL TOWN, to an old District of Damascus claiming Anka is not learned about his origins and made a mistake in his statement which is WP:OR and goes against evidence I presented him in the Talk Page but he keeps ignoring it violating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette#Principles_of_Wikipedia_etiquette .
After a long discussion and failing to making him see that he is violating policies and making disruptive edits as can be seen here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paul_Anka#Paul_Anka's_Lebanese_descent_in_his_autobiography_and_own_words_in_radio_interview he decides to leave the consensus building talk and disappears showing his inability to understand the policies and to reach consensus violating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Through_discussion.
- In https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_Anka&diff=967734108&oldid=967721716 after disappearing for 10 days from the consensus building discussion he comes back and violates WP:HANDLE and WP:OWNBEHAVIOR by completely removing what was tentatively agreed upon before he disappeared as per my last proposal in the talk page and adds all the 4 sources at the end of a unnecessarily long quote as to imply they all say the same thing as stated in the long quote which they dont violating WP:DISRUPTSIGNS and in a way also a kind of WP:SYN . He also keeps linking the small town of Bab Touma to the Old District on Damascus again violating WP:OR which I am willing to compromise as you can see in my last edit in order to reach consensus.Chris O' Hare (talk) 22:10, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Edit warring, Holocaust denying IP editor
66.194.149.110 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) WP:NOTHERE IP editor who is using original research to promote Holocaust denial on Evidence and documentation for the Holocaust[211][212][213][214] I think Holocaust deniers should be blocked on sight. (t · c) buidhe 08:30, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- It looks like he's already been blocked for 12 hours. I'll keep an eye on the article for when his unblock comes. — Czello 11:26, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, Materialscientist has blocked for a mere 12 hours. I would have blocked for longer, but then Materialscientist is clever with IPs and I'm stupid with IPs. I've asked on his page. Bishonen tålk 11:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC).
Same IP appears to be back at 2601:982:380:1480:7885:252c:420c:ec16 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I suggest extended confirmed protection on the affected article, Evidence and documentation for the Holocaust, which is covered under Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Antisemitism_in_Poland#Antisemitism_in_Poland:_Motion_(May_2020)? (t · c) buidhe 19:28, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- We haven't tried semi yet; I think that ought to work. Semiprotected for three months. Bishonen tålk 00:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC).
103.149.52.73 (talk · contribs) impersonating Kevin Gorman
- 103.149.52.73 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
- Diff 1
- Diff 2
Quite weird, this. Some IP based in Bhagalpur, India is impersonating Kevin Gorman, who sadly passed away in 2016. IP also seems fairly familiar with some terms and mentions a "hidden account" which uses RedWarn, so it may be worthwhile for a CU to look into this too. Ed6767 talk! 12:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- IP is listed at abuseat - it may be likely that the computer is infected with botnet malware, and therefore could be a secret proxy output, or could just be a computer infected with malware. Only a CU can make sure that this is the case by checking for associated user accounts. Ed6767talk! 13:08, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's likely the latter, as abuseat hasn't logged anything in the last 24 hours, the period in which these edits were made. Ed6767talk! 13:10, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ed6767, This is an ip hopping lta whose schtick is writing fan fictions about Gorman; I don’t think CheckUser will be help here. Best to just revert, block, and ignore em.Moneytrees🌴Talk🌲Help out at CCI! 13:26, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's likely the latter, as abuseat hasn't logged anything in the last 24 hours, the period in which these edits were made. Ed6767talk! 13:10, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
POV Editing at The Daily Stormer
Soibangla (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Soibangla recently added a quote from Andrew Anglin, the founder of the White Supremacist website The Daily Stormer, describing Tucker Carlson as "literally our greatest ally," adding that Tucker Carlson Tonight "is basically 'Daily Stormer: The Show'. Other than the language used, he is covering all of our talking points."[215] The source for these claims was an attack piece posted on Buzzfeed here. I subsequently reverted the edit here citing BLP, UNDUE and NPOV. Soibangla questioned my reversion in a talk page discussion which can be found here.
Soibangla's initial edit, and the cited source, appear to be a fairly transparent attempt to paint Mr. Carlson, a controversial political talk show host, as being an ally of White Supremacists. The fact the source is a naked attack piece from a website that has been frequently the subject of criticism at WP:RSN, and is without supporting coverage from other sources is also highly problematic. The talk page discussion suggests that Soibangla does not grasp some of our more important policies that deal with posting highly negative claims about persons who are protected by BLP. Under even the most benevolent interpretation of their edit and the subsequent discussion, I believe serious concerns exist regarding their general competence to be editing subjects of a highly sensitive and controversial nature and am seriously considering calling for a topic ban from American Politics (post 1932). -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem, both the WP:AWARE criteria of BLP and AP2 have been satisfied. You, as a single admin, may topic ban them accordingly for any length you see fit, including indefinitely, as an AE action. El_C 01:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks El C, I am aware of that. However, out of an abundance of caution, I am requesting input from experienced editors before taking any direct action. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Aware of AWARE, you say? Anyway, has there been similar issues like these with this user? Because if so, a topic ban is probably due. El_C 01:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El C I don't think I have ever interacted with this editor before tonight. However an extremely cursory glance at their talk page and recent history is not showing anything quite this brazen. Though they do seem to take pride in their reputation for POV editing when it has been raised on their talk page. But in fairness, if RT was saying bad things about me, I might take a little guilty pleasure as well. My problem here is that I was content to let this go with a formal caution after I reverted their edit. But everything that followed in the talk page discussion has sent up all kinds of red flags. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Indeed, the article talk page does signal a bunch of red flags. It does not appear the user understands that their edit was inappropriate. Hopefully, that is something they will come to terms with rather than face sanctions. El_C 01:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
to take pride in their reputation for POV editing when it has been raised on their talk page
is flatly false. In no way have I ever come even close to doing that. I displayed my amusement when a Putin propaganda outlet characterized me as "a known quantity" on AP2, and falsely accused me of making POV edits, as well as my amusement at a troll on r/The_Donald falsely accusing me of POV edits in an apparent effort to rally a MAGA troll army to come at me. soibangla (talk) 23:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- El C I don't think I have ever interacted with this editor before tonight. However an extremely cursory glance at their talk page and recent history is not showing anything quite this brazen. Though they do seem to take pride in their reputation for POV editing when it has been raised on their talk page. But in fairness, if RT was saying bad things about me, I might take a little guilty pleasure as well. My problem here is that I was content to let this go with a formal caution after I reverted their edit. But everything that followed in the talk page discussion has sent up all kinds of red flags. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Aware of AWARE, you say? Anyway, has there been similar issues like these with this user? Because if so, a topic ban is probably due. El_C 01:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks El C, I am aware of that. However, out of an abundance of caution, I am requesting input from experienced editors before taking any direct action. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wait a minute. BuzzFeed News, which Soibangla cited in his edit, is generally considered a reliable source by the community (see its entry at WP:RSP). There's no BLP violation in this edit; it accurately reflects the content of a reliable source. Soibangla calmly made that point to Ad Orientem on the article talk page, but Ad Orientem immediately escalated here to discuss a topic ban while mistakenly describing the source as unreliable. We don't usually topic-ban people for making accurate edits with a supporting reliable source. (Of course, the material may or may not belong in the article—that's a matter for discussion—but Soibangla hasn't done anything wrong by making a bold but well-sourced edit, and the only red flag I see is Ad Orientem escalating to AN/I for a reasonable, appropriately sourced edit without checking the source's reliability.) The usual sequence is WP:BRD, not BRAN/I.
Separately, El_C, surely you realize that Ad Orientem can't actually "topic ban [Soibangla] for any length you see fit"—an admin can't revert someone's edit as part of a content dispute and then topic ban the other editor. This is WP:INVOLVED 101. MastCell Talk 02:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- If it's a BLP violation, which I believe to to be, then Ad Orientem had a duty to revert it. That does not make him invovled. As far as I am aware, Ad Orientem is an uninvolved admin in this matter. Anyway, we cannot malign someone (Tucker) by association. I don't believe we've sank that low to editorialize like that. El_C 02:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I concur. There is no doubt in my mind it is a BLP vio. The sole source is a naked attack piece that makes Fox News look like the NY Times in their moderation and balance. It was used in a transparent attempt to tag Carlson as an ally of these vile people. That kind of insinuation is absolutely not allowed w/o very serious reliable source evidence, typically multiple sources. And no, I don't consider that piece to in any way pass WP:RS. My reversion was done in my capacity as an admin. I thought I made that clear in the talk page discussion when I stated I was in the process of writing a formal caution for Soibangla's talk page. That said, I do tend to favor getting additional input in cases like this before imposing sanctions. There is no immediate rush or threat to the project that would require quick and decisive intervention. And I am prepared to defer if there is a consensus against such a step. But the edit in question was a serious no no that did cross multiple lines. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The community has determined that BuzzFeed News is a reliable source. You don’t get to selectively disregard that consensus simply because you personally don’t like the source or its content. Soiblanga did everything right here - he made an edit accurately conveying the content of a reliable source and, when you reverted him, he went to the talk page and calmly discussed it. Threatening him with a block or topic ban is really out of line. MastCellTalk 06:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I agree. However, I wouldn't have included the quote in Carlson's article, because I believe it's probably UNDUE. The Buzzfeed article has a quite-easily confirmable fact that Carlson is the TV host most quoted (by an order of magnitude) in the Daily Stormer's pages, so you could have a discussion about that, as long as it isn't being SYNTHed to accuse Carlson of racism. To paraphrase the Buzzfeed article itself "Carlson may not be a racist, but this bunch of racists are convinced that he is" - and that's not the same thing. Black Kite (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- The source for the description of Carlson was the Daily Stormer/Anglin. That's not an RS for opinions about him. This edit was a serious BLP violation. SarahSV(talk) 05:33, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- But the source in the edit is a RS, not Stormer. They are reporting on what Anglin said, and it's cited in the same fashion as in innumerable other edits on Wikipedia. Millions, perhaps. It's just that in this case the reported quotes come from a particularly heinous man. Are we now going to draw lines as to when someone's quote is acceptable and when it isn't? soibangla (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Soibangla, imagine that a Holocaust-denial site wrote of a mainstream Holocaust historian: "He is covering all our talking points! Have you noticed how his numbers are always lower than everyone else's? He is literally our greatest ally!" You are arguing that we ought to add that view to Wikipedia, in the article about the Holocaust-denial site or to the historian's BLP, if we can find a minimally reliable source that repeats it. But of course we would never do that. SarahSV (talk) 00:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- But the source in the edit is a RS, not Stormer. They are reporting on what Anglin said, and it's cited in the same fashion as in innumerable other edits on Wikipedia. Millions, perhaps. It's just that in this case the reported quotes come from a particularly heinous man. Are we now going to draw lines as to when someone's quote is acceptable and when it isn't? soibangla (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- The community has determined that BuzzFeed News is a reliable source. You don’t get to selectively disregard that consensus simply because you personally don’t like the source or its content. Soiblanga did everything right here - he made an edit accurately conveying the content of a reliable source and, when you reverted him, he went to the talk page and calmly discussed it. Threatening him with a block or topic ban is really out of line. MastCellTalk 06:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I concur. There is no doubt in my mind it is a BLP vio. The sole source is a naked attack piece that makes Fox News look like the NY Times in their moderation and balance. It was used in a transparent attempt to tag Carlson as an ally of these vile people. That kind of insinuation is absolutely not allowed w/o very serious reliable source evidence, typically multiple sources. And no, I don't consider that piece to in any way pass WP:RS. My reversion was done in my capacity as an admin. I thought I made that clear in the talk page discussion when I stated I was in the process of writing a formal caution for Soibangla's talk page. That said, I do tend to favor getting additional input in cases like this before imposing sanctions. There is no immediate rush or threat to the project that would require quick and decisive intervention. And I am prepared to defer if there is a consensus against such a step. But the edit in question was a serious no no that did cross multiple lines. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- There would be all kinds of problems to have this on Tucker Carson's page. I'm less sure here. If that coverage isn't WP:UNDUE, and I suspect it is, then it would be reasonable for it to be quoted (if say this was one of the main things the Daily Stormer was known for). As far as sources, there are other, sources that might be more acceptable for similar information ([216], [217], [218]). What this article from Buzzfeed News seems to have is an analysis of coverage of Fox news folks which makes it a bit more useful IMO. Hobit (talk) 04:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem, well, maybe - but if Andrew Anglin is that keen on the show (and there is no evidence the social media screenshots are fake) then that is a pretty big deal. Guy (help!) 12:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Even as someone who views Tucker Carlson as an ally to white nationalists (just going off of his rhetoric), I am surprised that the community sees Buzzfeed as a reliable source given their history of clickbaiting and racebaiting. Consensus is consensus I guess, but I do not think that treating buzzfeed as reliable will accomplish much other than giving the "Wikipedia is liberal propaganda" people ammunition. Darkknight2149 09:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Indeed, Darkknight2149, some of us view it as BLP violation of the first order: as pure editorializing. El_C 09:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whilst I don't agree with the use of Buzzfeed in this way (although the easily proved fact that Carlson is the most-quoted TV host by the Daily Stormer is not in the slightest unreliable), the people who think that "Wikipedia is liberal progaganda" aren't going to stop saying it unless we end up looking like Conservapedia (i.e. a complete work of fiction). In the post-truth era, when you've got at least three right-wing leaders of major countries who pump out easily-debunkable nonsense (i.e. lies) on an almost daily basis, this is always going to be a problem, because some people believe them quite vehemently. Black Kite (talk) 11:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Darkknight2149, to your point, WP:RSP makes a distinction between BuzzFeed proper (a dubious, clickbaity source at best) and BuzzFeed News (which is viewed as generally reliable). The piece cited by Soibangla came from BuzzFeed News. In general, I agree with you that neither is an ideal source—I don't think I've ever used either one as a source for an edit here. But as an editor and admin, I can't just substitute my own opinion for community consensus about the source's reliability—which is what Ad Orientem and El_C did. That's my concern. I think it's fine if editors decide, through discussion, that inclusion of this material would constitute undue weight. I just think it's wrong that an editor was immediately hauled to AN/I for making a single, appropriately-sourced edit, and then calmly discussing the edit when it was reverted. MastCell Talk 16:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whilst I don't agree with the use of Buzzfeed in this way (although the easily proved fact that Carlson is the most-quoted TV host by the Daily Stormer is not in the slightest unreliable), the people who think that "Wikipedia is liberal progaganda" aren't going to stop saying it unless we end up looking like Conservapedia (i.e. a complete work of fiction). In the post-truth era, when you've got at least three right-wing leaders of major countries who pump out easily-debunkable nonsense (i.e. lies) on an almost daily basis, this is always going to be a problem, because some people believe them quite vehemently. Black Kite (talk) 11:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Note that in October 2018 an RfC about including praise of Carlson's show by white supremacists was opened. It was closed with a "no", saying it constituted undue weight. I participated in it and agreed with the result, as it was a blatant attempt to make Carlson look like a white supremacist. Soibangla participated too, and quoted this same Daily Stormer material. - DoubleCross (‡) 10:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I am surprised that the community sees Buzzfeed as a reliable source given their history of clickbaiting and racebaiting
- Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed News are different entities. Buzzfeed, yes, is a clickbait cesspit. However, Buzzfeed News has earned a reputation as a legitimate source of journalism. The problem is that folks see "Buzzfeed" and automatically associate it with the clickbait, before the "News" in the name registers. They'd have been better off changing names for the news entity a long time ago. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think Soibangla's edit has any place in The Daily Stormer; if anywhere, it goes in the Tucker Carson bio, though there is clearly some doubt about that as well. But Soibangla is not IMO a disruptive editor,
nownor did he act disruptively here, but went to talk when he was reverted. I believe he showed somewhat poor judgment in adding the material in the first place, per WP:UNDUE, but that alone, from a constructive editor, is far from being cause for a topic ban or indeed any kind of sanction. And if, hypothetically, it were, I don't think Ad Orientem should revert and then sanction, so I'm not in agreement with El C there. Bishonentålk 11:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC).- Bishonen, right. Ad Orientem and others see a naked attack piece, I see robust criticism which cites its sources and shows its working. Whether or not it constitutes WP:UNDUE is another matter, but it's certainly not a BLP violation, because Buzzfeed News is a reliable source and the reporting, whose accuracy doesn't seem to be in dispute, is legitimately troubling.
- This is investigative journalism, albeit of a somewhat facile kind. BuzzFeed News is an American news website published by BuzzFeed. It has published a number of high-profile scoops, including the Trump–Russia dossier, for which it was heavily criticized.[1][2][3] During its relatively short tenure, it has won the George Polk Award, Sidney Award, National Magazine Award and National Press Foundation award, as well as being a finalist for Pulitzer Prizes. This won't win any awards, but neither is it clickbait or yellow journalism. Tabloidish, at worst.
- Does Andrew Anglin love Tucker Carlson's show? Hell yes, and anyone can go and repeat the work documented in the article and verify its accuracy. Is Carlson a racist? I don't know, but the racists certainly think he is. And that is the problem we always have: how to distinguish conservative voices that are actually racist from those who are merely sufficiently unconcerned about racism that they are OK with repeating dog-whistles and racist tropes. I have no clue how to fix that.
- Including praise of Carlson by white supremacists from primary sources is clearly unacceptable, but this is a secondary source - and that in and of itself would legitimately call into question whether an RfC based on primary sources is still a valid consensus (cf. the Joe Biden sexual assault allegations, which were included after secondary sources reported). Is it undue? Likely, but it's not so obvious that it merits a sanction. We don't sanction people for boldly adding material that's later decided to be undue, unless they do it constantly or egregiously. This would need to go to AE, I think, with evidence of a systemic problem, not just a single incident. Guy (help!) 12:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Bishonen, did you mean "nor did he act"? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:31, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Jo, Gråbergs Gråa Sång, nog är det så alltid. Bishånen tålk 14:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC).
- I guess I'm in the minority here in seeing it as an egregious BLP violation by virtue of it being so UNDUE. I can accept that. But Guy raises some fine points, too, so I value his (mostly) excellent analysis. El_C 12:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, this seems to be mudslinging for reasons the BLP subjects can't themselves decide. Similarly, there is an Associated Press article (credited to a Washington Times journalist) that the former KKK leader David Duke supports Ilhan Omar for her comments about Israel. I also think pushing for including that in the Omar article would be negative POV-pushing. And importantly, as the Daily Stormer article states, the site is involved in trolling. Connecting their more or less trollish comments to others is highly problematic for BLP reasons. --Pudeo (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Folks, there's genuine content disagreement here, over which reasonable people can have differing opinions. Whether the material should be included, and if so where, is a valid topic for consensus-seeking discussion, and the place for that is not here. Whether User:Soibangla should be sanctioned is a valid question here, and I'm not seeing justification for it - there's an UNDUE (content) discussion to be had, but I'm not seeing a violation of BLP or American Politics sanctions, as those sanctions do not prohibit the inclusion of negative material supported by reliable sources (and it's a source generally considered reliable). Also, I definitely agree that an admin taking part in what is actually a content disagreement should not be the one to impose sanctions in the event sanctions were considered appropriate. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Agreed. And the fact that there's "genuine content disagreement here" means, in my view, that this wasn't a clear-cut BLP violation that should result in a block of any kind. Grandpallama (talk) 13:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- There was already an RfC about this and that settles the issue until a new RfC. Not only is it a blp violation and undue but making that edit was circumventing consensus. [219]Levivich [dubious – discuss] 13:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, it can be two things. El_C 13:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- El C, it can be, but it isn't, because it is factually accurate and a RS. Also, and at least as disturbing, see this from today: https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/1281061199728312320?s=20
- As I said above, I do not know if Tucker Carlson is a racist, but the racists sure as hell think he is. Guy(help!) 13:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- What can I say? That's hard to argue against. El_C 13:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree that it's reliably sourced; the Buzzfeednews tech column, and the NBC and Esquire opinion pieces, aren't RSes for suggesting a living person is an ally of white supremacists, and I don't see that the GQ article supports the edits in question. I guess count me in the minority. My barometer is that if it's a controversial statement that is not sourced to multiple, high quality sources, then it's a BLP violation. I get that from "Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." This counts, to me, as contentious material that is poorly sourced. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 15:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- What can I say? That's hard to argue against. El_C 13:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, it can be two things. El_C 13:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Can we close this now, with a suggestion that the editors return to the article talk page to discuss any remaining DUE WEIGHT issues? SPECIFICO talk 13:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment
Having read through the comments that have appeared since last night, I see a rough consensus that no BLP vio occurred, a rough consensus that there are questions of UNDUE and a rough consensus against any sanctions. While I don't agree with the first conclusion, I bow to what appears to be the general take among my collegues as expressed in their comments. In light of which I will not take any further administrative action and will be satisfied that the edit in question, or anything similar, shall not be reinstated w/o clear talk page consensus supporting it.-Ad Orientem (talk) 14:15, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- I am striking my above comment. Based on subsequent comments and discussion it appears to have been premature. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- The edit is a brazen BLP violation as far as I can see. This is a pretty alarming condemnation that should only come from the most reliable sources. I wouldn't allow this kind of derogatory BLP violating nonsense in an article about Anderson Cooper or Rachel Maddow with this flimsy level of referencing. Whatever happened to the efforts to approach BLPs with diligence and na effort to "do no harm"? When editors make it their mission to only add the negative (and use less then substantive references) and little to "edit for the opposition", one wonders how we can defend them as here for the general good?--MONGO (talk) 23:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- And the person in question seems to think this is just fine [220]. Sad.--MONGO (talk) 23:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- LOL! guffawed the person in question soibangla (talk) 23:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Taking a victory lap at Talk:The Daily Stormer--before this thread is even closed--makes me concerned about continued editing in BLP and AP2 topic areas. WP:Battleground statements like
I'm pretty sure that, as an admin, Ad Orientem knows the right thing to do here now. The only question is whether he will demonstrate a modicum of courage and integrity to do it.
do not give me confidence in an editor's ability to communicate with other editors in these very fraught topic areas. If what soibangla takes from this discussion is "I was right", I fear we are going to have problems in the future. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 18:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Taking a victory lap at Talk:The Daily Stormer--before this thread is even closed--makes me concerned about continued editing in BLP and AP2 topic areas. WP:Battleground statements like
- LOL! guffawed the person in question soibangla (talk) 23:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
As I am the subject of this topic, I will not presume to close it, but I recommnend someone do it, as the individual who opened it effectively closed it. soibangla (talk) 22:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- BLP vio plus disregarding consensus to keep it out. I would support a 6 mos. t-ban. Atsme Talk 📧 00:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Can't imagine why people might associate Carlson with racists. Another story breaking from RS about this issue. Grandpallama (talk) 00:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I will explain my link here, since Ad Orientem suggested it was both a BLP and NOTFORUM violation; I'll strike the snark from my comment as potentially inappropriate
, but I consider the rest of what Ad Orientem wrote on my talkpage to be a deliberate attempt to chill criticism of his attempt to push sanctions through on a good-faith editor. As far as NOTFORUM goes, the link is certainly relevant to what is being discussed here, because reliable sources continuously and regularly associate Tucker Carlson with white supremacists and racist language. The whole discussion here revolves around whether an editor adding a reliably sourced (and it's disturbing that Ad Orientem repeatedly calls Buzzfeed News anything other than a RS, as the community has established consensus that it is) statement should be sanctioned for his edit. Most everyone, myself included, agrees that the edit doesn't belong in the article and that it attempts to establish guilt by association in an inappropriate manner. But the further argument, that soibangla committed some gross violation by calmly discussing the reversion of his edit at the talkpage, or that it was unreasonable to think reliable sources regularly writing about connections between racist/supremacist groups and Carlson might merit a mention, ignores the reality of what RS are publishing on this subject. By all means, nothing should go on Carlson's or The Daily Stormer page that violates consensus or Wikipedia policies, but as recently as today, stories are breaking about Carlson's associations. To implement a punitive block on an editor (because the fact that he has made no attempt to force in his edit means you can't possibly call this preventative) for thinking the article should address this topic is highly troubling. Grandpallama (talk) 03:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)- Grandpallama, Thanks for your comment and as I noted elsewhere, your entitled to your view. I will make just one point though. AFAIK nobody was considering a block. I certainly wasn't. The only sanction I considered was a TBan. That is under discussion below. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- You're absolutely correct--slip of the tongue on my part and the fault of editing late on a Friday night. That said, I find everything I argued equally applicable to the notion of a TBAN on the editor for this one edit. Grandpallama (talk) 04:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Grandpallama, Thanks for your comment and as I noted elsewhere, your entitled to your view. I will make just one point though. AFAIK nobody was considering a block. I certainly wasn't. The only sanction I considered was a TBan. That is under discussion below. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Ivanvector, did you intend to leave this “parent” record open while closing its “child” records? soibangla (talk) 17:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
Proposal for 6 mos. t-ban
| NO CONSENSUS | |
| There have been no new comments here in two days so it's well past time to close. There is no consensus for the proposed sanction. This discussion orbited around whether the original incident warranted sanction, and largely around Levivich's analysis of soibangla's recent conduct. On the first, there is a pretty significant consensus that the single incident was a violation which did not warrant sanction, or was not a violation in the first place, and that any issues with the edit should have been discussed through regular editorial processes. On the second, while several editors commented in support of the analysis and added their own commentary, several more found flaws in the analysis from being biased to being outright misrepresentation of facts. I have no comment on the merits of those arguments, but clearly as more review of the analysis developed, so did more opposition. No consensus is the only reasonable outcome here. That being said, @Soibangla: there is a significant feeling here that your contributions to biographies of living persons and your understanding of BLP policy is problematic, particularly your cherrypicking of negative trivia (WP:UNDUE) and evidently viewing editorial process as a game to be won. If you continue to fail to adjust your behaviour, sanctions are likely to result. There's some pretty good discussion here about different policy matters and especially the quality and reliability of various sources which I'd like to see continue on a different noticeboard. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:01, 17 July 2020 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Soibangla added a quote in violation of BLP, UNDUE and NPOV and disregarded WP:Consensus that was against adding such material; noncompliance with consensus is a violation of policy.
- Adding - this ArbCom Principle which I included below after a bit more research in an effort to validate or dismiss the BLP vios argued by Ad Orientem, Levivich and others, myself included. I'm of the mind that the following principle stands out like a sore thumb in this case, and unequivocally validates the BLP argument. (my bold underline):
AtsmeTalk📧 16:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)Quotation of material from an unreliable source
8) Quotation of material from an unreliable source by a source generally considered reliable does not render the information acceptable for inclusion in Wikipedia.
- Oppose as there is obvious consensus after discussion that there was no BLP violation. Blocks and bans are preventative, not punitive, and no evidence has been provided that soibangla requires a TBAN in order to prevent disruption; on the contrary, he has followed BRD. Grandpallama (talk) 00:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's a point that I find weighty. There is not a current consensus on the question of a BLP vio. Opinions are divided rather sharply. However, we do have a broad agreement that the edit was inappropriate and UNDUE. But Soibangla has not attempted to reinstate the edit. Nor, a few snarky comments aside, have they suggested that they would do so. As the OP I am INVOLVED so I am not going to close the discussion. But, I will suggest that if Soibangla acknowledges the consensus that the edit was inappropriate and that they understand why, I would be fine if someone closed this on that basis. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem, let's make a deal: I will acknowledge that my original edit was inappropriate, with a pledge to be more careful in the future, if you acknowledge you bypassed BRD — perhaps the most overarching principle of Wikipedia — to inappropriately open this topic. With the concurrence of other admins that our mutual agreement obviates further discussion here, we can close this topic and everyone can resume constructive editing. Deal? soibangla (talk) 21:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Soibangla: No deal. I opened this discussion in lieu of unilaterally imposing a TBan on the basis of what I believed (and still believe) to have been a flagrant BLP vio and POV edit. Your general response to this discussion continues to cause me grave concern. Either you understand that your edit was seriously inappropriate, or you don't. That is not, and should not be a subject of some kind of quid pro quo negotiation. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem, let's make a deal: I will acknowledge that my original edit was inappropriate, with a pledge to be more careful in the future, if you acknowledge you bypassed BRD — perhaps the most overarching principle of Wikipedia — to inappropriately open this topic. With the concurrence of other admins that our mutual agreement obviates further discussion here, we can close this topic and everyone can resume constructive editing. Deal? soibangla (talk) 21:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's a point that I find weighty. There is not a current consensus on the question of a BLP vio. Opinions are divided rather sharply. However, we do have a broad agreement that the edit was inappropriate and UNDUE. But Soibangla has not attempted to reinstate the edit. Nor, a few snarky comments aside, have they suggested that they would do so. As the OP I am INVOLVED so I am not going to close the discussion. But, I will suggest that if Soibangla acknowledges the consensus that the edit was inappropriate and that they understand why, I would be fine if someone closed this on that basis. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Their last 50-100 contribs raise broader concerns:
- "this is not Carlson's BLP" makes me question if they understand BLP applies everywhere
- Using Raw Story as a source to associate Michael Flynn [221] with QAnon [222] (Raw Story has the same owners and editors as AlterNet, which is red at WP:RSP); Raw Story is not listed.). Using Mother Jones for the same thing, without attribution (see WP:RSP, MJ
requiresmay require attribution for politics and, in my opinion, does require attribution for an edit linking Flynn with QAnon) [223]. I'm not sure why WaPo is included in the references in that last edit; the WaPo article doesn't mention QAnon or Flynn. - Using Media Matters (yellow at WP:RSP, requires attribution) without attribution for negative information about a directly competing, ideologically-opposed watchdog group Judicial Watch [224]
- Using CNN (a direct commercial competitor) as a source for negative information about Fox News [225]
- "Obama often adopted a scolding tone toward black audiences" sourced to WaPo, except the article doesn't say that in its own voice; it attributes the accusation. Specifically, it says critics of Obama said he adopted a scolding tone towards black audiences. Yet it's included in our article in Wikivoice. [226] Also the article is 2013. It's WP:RECENTISM, it's almost a primary source as a contemporary news source. At this point, there is such better (academic) sourcing available for Obama and black audiences. It really feels like we found an obscure article from years ago just so we can say what we want to say.
- Same article, this edit is inserting politics into the section about policy. The first two sentences are sourced to WaPo and Politico, but then Mediaite is included and that's RSP yellow. The sentence
Obama praised police officers throughout his presidency
is sourced to a bunch of examples of Obama praising cops. It's WP:SYNTH. Then we add a cherry-picked quote [227], which is WP:PUFFERY. - Kind of misrepresenting a source to make a point: [228]. The source doesn't say "falsely", it says "out of context", which is, sure, a type of falsehood, but stepping back, "political candidate quotes opponent out of context" is hardly the kind of significant information that should be included in the candidate's campaign article. An article about a campaign should summarize the campaign, not catalogue every tit-for-tat. See also: this WP:UNDUE addition to Jeff Sessions [229] and the journalistic/editorializing/overly-partisan tone here.
- The history of Rudy Giuliani and like most of Talk:Rudy Giuliani (see, e.g.,
"The two of you need to STOP the edit warring"edit warring at Rudy Giuliani), including comments like [230] [231] [232] [233] - Their responses to this thread: [234] [235] [236] [237] [238] [239]
- I noticed at User talk:Soibangla, from last year, this comment: "@Doug Weller: I am aware that some partisan editors use this alert in an attempt to intimidate others into silence. Unless you have a specific complaint about my edits, I suggest you refrain from sending generic alerts without cause". Battleground.
- Admittedly the last 50-100 edits is a small sample size, but I can't help but notice that every single one is either negative about Republicans/conservatives or positive about Democrats/liberals. I find this ironic in light of their reference to "my amusement at a false reputation projected upon me by brazen hyperpartisans" [240].
- Normally I wouldn't suggest TBANing somebody for these kinds of edits, just sort of advising them about using high-quality sources and being more careful, etc., but the attitude, particularly their response to this thread, makes me think the editor is not interested in learning how to improve, and for as long as that remains the case, I support a BLP and AP2 TBAN. (Note I edited many of the above articles to address my concerns.) Levivich [dubious – discuss] 07:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- A number of these analyses are misleading.
- Mother Jones is green at WP:RSP, and
statements (particularly on political topics) may need to be attributed
(emphasis mine), which is a far cry from ""requires attribution". - There is no policy stating that a group cannot criticize another competing group. At most, the Media Matters critique of Judicial Watch requires attribution, but we are not barred from using one group to critique another group.
- See above on the claim that sourcing a critique of Fox to CNN is somehow problematic. No policy backing, and according to this reasoning, who would be allowed to critique Fox? CNN is a RS, period.
- There is a misrepresentation of the scolding comment on the Obama page. The title of the article is "To critics, Obama’s scolding tone with black audiences is getting old", but the full text of what soibangla wrote is
Obama often adopted a scolding tone toward black audiences, admonishing black men to be more responsible to their families and communities.
, which primarily comes directly from the second paragraph of the article in WaPo's own voice:During the speech, Obama admonished black men to take care of their families and their communities and told the graduates that despite the lingering legacies of slavery and discrimination, "we’ve got no time for excuses."
- The concern of "falsely" vs. "out of context" is undermined by the conclusion reached by the CNN fact-check article:
Clearly, the "enemy" comment was not some sort of general assessment of police officers or even a statement about how police officers are generally seen by communities. It was specifically about perceptions of police who use particular equipment in particular circumstances.
Using the word "falsely" in light of that summation is perfectly acceptable and in no way a misrepresentation of the CNN article or its claims. Also, the argument that a campaign page shouldn't document every "tit-for-tat" is questionable in this context; the article breaks down the presidential campaign by month, with sections for each, and includes this as part of the July section. Considering the national unrest and conversations about policing in summer 2020, candidate statements and claims about police and police actions are reasonable additions. - The mention of the Rudy Giuliani talkpage is frustratingly misleading. It fails to mention that after MelanieN told both soibangla and the other editor to stop edit warring, she very clearly articulated that the other editor was failing to follow BRD and admonished them (but not soibangla) to do so; she also confirmed that the other editor was engaging in borderline personal attacks, but again, did not mention soibangla. It also fails to mention that soibangla disengaged.
- The observation that "I can't help but notice that every single [edit] is either negative about Republicans/conservatives or positive about Democrats/liberals" seems to suggest that this isn't permitted. If you want to argue that soibangla needs to tone down battleground verbiage, that's one thing, but what else are you implying? Most editors, including a fair number in this very discussion, edit positively about one party and negatively about another. That's not against policy, as long as they're not being disruptive.
- This is warning-worthy behavior, not immediate TBAN behavior. Grandpallama (talk) 14:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Mother Jones is green at WP:RSP, and
- Levivich,
- RSN is silent on Raw Story. It's fair game.
- Media Matters: don't they provide "attribution" to the source documents? As I've explained previously elsewhere, I've never used Media Matters for their opinions, and I actually removed[[241]] such a cited use by another editor just days ago. I use it exclusively for the videos, transcripts and documents they provide, which are objectively indisputable. I use it as a secondary source simply to convey what would otherwise be primary sources.
- Mediate: it's yellow, not red. Proceed with caution, not stop. And I proceeded with caution, using it only for the video/transcript of a Fox News host claiming "anti-police rhetoric"
- Obama police speeches: I don't think it's SYNTH. One might assert two of the sources (CSPAN videos) are primary, but "Primary" does not mean "bad"}} soibangla (talk) 21:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
WP:UNDUE addition to Jeff Sessions
It's not UNDUE, that section contains several similar short anecdotes, and the Sessions quote in my edit is from an exclusive interview with the NYT soibangla (talk) 00:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)and the journalistic/editorializing/overly-partisan tone here
which we are apparently expected to believe simply because you say it's so. Kindly be specific. soibangla (talk) 00:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)- Soibangla, I assume you mean RSP, not RSN, because there are half a dozen threads at RSN about Raw Story, going back over ten years. When you say things like: because a source is not listed on RSP (or RSN, if that were the case), "it's fair game", it strengthens my opinion that you should be TBANed from AP2 and BLP. It's very much not the case that a source that is unlisted on our noticeboards is "fair game". In fact, many, many... the overwhelming majority... of unreliable sources are not listed at RSP and never discussed at RSN. You need to make an independent determination as an editor as to whether the source you are using meets WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV and our other policies and guidelines.Now, if your attitude was one of, "Oh, I didn't know Raw Story is an unreliable source", or even "I disagree with Levivich and I think Raw Story is a reliable source because [reasons relating to what our policies say about what makes a source reliable or not]", I wouldn't think of a TBAN. But instead, your response is to suggest that Raw Story is "fair game", even after I told you why I thought it was unreliable (because of its ownership and editors). But you don't respond to the "meat" of my argument -- to whether Raw Story is reliable or not -- and instead, you play a "gotcha game" of "RSN is silent ... It's fair game". This is not an approach that we can tolerate in DS areas. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 21:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If you want to argue it's not reliable, you can do that on RSP, or in the edit, or note that someone challenged it in the edit, but I don't think it makes much sense to come here now and unilaterally assert it's not reliable, especially since you haven't specified exactly what in the reference you deem questionable.
it strengthens my opinion that you should be TBANed
Perhaps you've noticed, just in this one thread alone, that a good number of admins have difficulty agreeing on major policies that have been hammered-out since forever. Should they all be banned, too? soibangla (talk) 22:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- If you want to argue it's not reliable, you can do that on RSP, or in the edit, or note that someone challenged it in the edit, but I don't think it makes much sense to come here now and unilaterally assert it's not reliable, especially since you haven't specified exactly what in the reference you deem questionable.
- Soibangla, I assume you mean RSP, not RSN, because there are half a dozen threads at RSN about Raw Story, going back over ten years. When you say things like: because a source is not listed on RSP (or RSN, if that were the case), "it's fair game", it strengthens my opinion that you should be TBANed from AP2 and BLP. It's very much not the case that a source that is unlisted on our noticeboards is "fair game". In fact, many, many... the overwhelming majority... of unreliable sources are not listed at RSP and never discussed at RSN. You need to make an independent determination as an editor as to whether the source you are using meets WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NPOV and our other policies and guidelines.Now, if your attitude was one of, "Oh, I didn't know Raw Story is an unreliable source", or even "I disagree with Levivich and I think Raw Story is a reliable source because [reasons relating to what our policies say about what makes a source reliable or not]", I wouldn't think of a TBAN. But instead, your response is to suggest that Raw Story is "fair game", even after I told you why I thought it was unreliable (because of its ownership and editors). But you don't respond to the "meat" of my argument -- to whether Raw Story is reliable or not -- and instead, you play a "gotcha game" of "RSN is silent ... It's fair game". This is not an approach that we can tolerate in DS areas. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 21:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- A number of these analyses are misleading.
- Support. Per Levivich's comprehensive analysis. El_C 07:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- El C, I note that you, Springee and DoubleCross voted on the basis of this “comprehensive” analysis, before grandpallama and Aquillion critiqued it to reveal numerous significant weaknesses, which I may add to. I encourage you to consider those critiques. soibangla (talk) 18:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- OK, I'll add some examples of my own interactions with you [[242]]. From that link we have two examples. Here you suggest editors on Wikipedia who disagree with you are liars [[243]]. In this case[[244]] you say, "I get the sense you don't like me very much. I take that as a compliment of my work. ". How is that not a BATTLEGROUND mentality towards editors who disagree with you? So in addition to the other issues I have BATTLEGROUND examples from my own interactions with you. Springee (talk) 19:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Springee, I did not call you or other editors a liar, I was referring to well-organized groups.
- You innappropriately pinged me here, when you should've come to my Talk page, then took a gratuitous swipe at me that "This isn't something to be proud of," referring to my amusement at an r/The_Donald troll brazenly lying about me in an apparent attempt to rally a MAGA troll army to come after me. And now you're here to pile-on in vengeance. Can you credibily say now that I don't have good reason for my ""sense you don't like me very much?" That's enough, just drop it.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Proposal_for_6_mos._t-bansoibangla (talk) 21:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Your comment about liars was clearly directed at people here,
"I don’t have a problem with gun ownership, I only have a problem with liars. And in this case, the liars are particularly well organized and particularly aggressive, and they are hellbent on foisting their false agenda everywhere, including here."
. Note the "including here" part. I don't recall pinging you here at all so I'm not sure how I could have done it inappropriately. It certainly doesn't justify an out of the blue comment like linked above. Springee (talk) 21:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Your comment about liars was clearly directed at people here,
- OK, I'll add some examples of my own interactions with you [[242]]. From that link we have two examples. Here you suggest editors on Wikipedia who disagree with you are liars [[243]]. In this case[[244]] you say, "I get the sense you don't like me very much. I take that as a compliment of my work. ". How is that not a BATTLEGROUND mentality towards editors who disagree with you? So in addition to the other issues I have BATTLEGROUND examples from my own interactions with you. Springee (talk) 19:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- El C, I note that you, Springee and DoubleCross voted on the basis of this “comprehensive” analysis, before grandpallama and Aquillion critiqued it to reveal numerous significant weaknesses, which I may add to. I encourage you to consider those critiques. soibangla (talk) 18:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support per Levivich's analysis as well. Springee (talk) 12:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support per Levivich. - DoubleCross (‡) 14:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose. While soibangla could stand to be more cautious, most of Levivich's arguments are breathtakingly wrong. Mother Jones is a high-quality source; yellow sources, like Media Matters, are use-carefully and not ones I would rely on, but it's baffling to suggest such a broad six-month topic-ban based on that. But by far the most shocking part (and the one that compelled me to comment) is the argument that we cannot cite CNN about Fox, an argument without the slightest sliver of grounding in policy and one I would expect to see more from a POV-pushing IP than an established editor. By that argument, no article on a news channel could ever have any citations to news, no article on a publisher or writer could ever have any citations to books, and no article on academia (or even topics within academia) could ever have any citations to other academics within their field. Given the importance of this, I'm going to take this to WP:RSN, since it's absolutely not an interpretation we can have floating around. --Aquillion (talk) 16:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Note discussion was already underway at Talk:Fox News#Using biased sources and competitors as sources before the CNN-criticizing-Fox edits were made. (And that discussion isn't about CNN, it's about other journalistic sources.) I don't think it's even remotely reasonable to use CNN as a source for criticism of Fox, any more than it would be reasonable to use Fox as a source for criticism of CNN. They're the two largest cable news networks, both for profit, on opposite ideological sides. They're direct competitors with a financial incentive for making the other network look bad. This is like using Coca-Cola as a source for negative information about Pepsi, or using a political candidate as a source for negative information about their opponent. And of course this doesn't translate to academia... because it's not a for-profit company. And it doesn't extend to all media, either. You can't use the New York Times for negative information about the New York Post, and vice versa, but you can use NYT as a source for negative information about CNN or Fox because they're not direct competitors--not even in the same media. If you need an all caps blue blink, see WP:COMMONSENSE. Also WP:NPOV though. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 17:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
You can't use the New York Times for negative information about the New York Post
. Of course you can. The NYT is one of the most reputable sources in the world; suggesting that they would be unable to write impartially about the New York Post - or that CNN is unable to write impartially about Fox - is laughable to the point that it raises WP:COMPETENCE issues. Coca-Cola and Pepsi are not high-quality news sources with sterling reputations; CNN and the New York Times are, and throwing that reputation into doubt requires more than just "they're both news stations and disagree on stuff." I have and will continue to cite them in that context, will always restore such cites when I see them removed, and would naturally add them when absent, since such high-quality sources with an expertise in the field are some of the best to cite in this context. Not only is CNN citeable when it comes to Fox, it is a high-quality source worth adding, and using it in that context is commendable; I find the fact that you are doubling down on such a plainly inaccurate and groundless objection to be baffling. You have some (weak) points about other areas where soibangla could be more cautious, but by trying to push through this absurd and indefensible position you are undermining your entire argument. Also, I'll note that you described Fox and CNN as being onopposite ideological sides
, which is inaccurate; Fox brands itself ideologically, but CNN does not. It is possible that this fundamental misunderstanding of the American media landscape contributes to your error here, though I'm still baffled that anyone could seriously suggest that Fox's status as a cable news company makes it immune to criticism from the entire cable news spectrum. (As an aside, Fox is owned by New Corp, which owns several newspapers - how does your logic not extend to immunizing it from newspapers as well?) --Aquillion (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)- Hahaha... CNN is not a "high quality source" like The New York Times. They're not even in the same league. You can't compare cable news to the US's paper of record. But even the US's paper of record is not an appropriate source for negative information about its direct financial competitors. And, Aquillion, believe me, as much as you say you think my position is "indefensible", I think yours is laughable. So what? That's what content disputes are about. Anyway, the place to discuss this is the RSN post you started, not here. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 17:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Except that this isn't a content dispute. This is you invoking a non-existent policy about RS as part of a justification for imposing a TBAN on an editor, and then doubling down when shocked Wikipedians point out how "breathtakingly wrong" that justification is. Whether or not you like that CNN is a RS for reporting on Fox (or any other subject) can be taken up elsewhere, but imaginary policies can't be used to censure editors. Grandpallama (talk) 18:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Grandpallama, please do not put words in my mouth. I invoked no policy whatsoever - I never said anything even close to that there is a policy or a guideline or even an essay. Further, I did not say he should be TBANed for it. My last bullet point is clear that I, like you, think these are only warnable offenses, and my last bullet point explained why, and under what conditions I supported a TBAN. I think I was exceptionally clear and you are completely misinterpreting and misrepresenting what I've written. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 18:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- What? Your last bullet point states
I support a BLP and AP2 TBAN
, after specifically saying you don't think a warning suffices in this context; please don't play games and claim you opposed the TBAN after just voting to support it. As for CNN, you didn't call it a policy or a guideline or even an essay...and yet it's a partial justification for the TBAN you supported. But it's something people can't do. But it's not a policy. Gimme a break, Levivich--the only misrepresentation in your bullets came from you. Grandpallama (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)- For what it's worth, I think I've made my point(s), repeatedly, in this discussion, so I plan to refrain from commenting further unless pinged with a direct question. I don't want my commenting to turn into a bludgeon. Plus, I have bookshelves to build! Grandpallama (talk) 18:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't understand how you find this unclear:
Normally I wouldn't suggest TBANing somebody for these kinds of edits, just sort of advising them about using high-quality sources and being more careful, etc., but the attitude, particularly their response to this thread, makes me think the editor is not interested in learning how to improve, and for as long as that remains the case, I support a BLP and AP2 TBAN.
That means I don't thinkthese kinds of edits
are TBANable, rather I thinkthe attitude
andnot interested in learning how to improve
are the reasons (for as long as that remains the case
) thatI support a BLP and AP2 TBAN
. Hope this clears up your confusion about the reason I support a BLP and AP2 TBAN. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 19:00, 11 July 2020 (UTC)- Improper/questionable sourcing does matter when determining a t-ban and the problem is consistent. For the record, Mother Jones is not "high quality" - it is a generally reliable source with caveats per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Mother Jones. Next, Media Matters, questionable per Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Media_Matters_for_America, and all the cited competitor sources fall under COI. A little refresher can't hurt once in a while...see WP:RS. AtsmeTalk📧 19:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- While I didn't cite any policy, the policy is WP:V, footnote 9, which advises against using
articles by any media group that ... discredits its competitors
. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 19:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)- It's perfectly clear: you supported a TBAN based upon your heavily flawed "analysis" while claiming, somehow, you don't support a TBAN based on your highly flawed "analysis"; if it didn't factor into the decision, why do it? The disingenuousness of this is tiresome. If you're hanging your hat on a footnote at WP:V as an argument that CNN cannot be cited as critiquing Fox, you're not going to make much headway. And I don't care how much people want to quibble about Mother Jones--Wikipedia has determined it's a RS, and the caveats for its use are other than what was presented. A little refresher can't hurt once in a while...see WP:RSP. Grandpallama (talk) 22:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm surprised you're having such a hard time understanding the concept of "It's not the mistakes, but the refusal to correct the mistakes, that justifies a TBAN." I'm also saddened that you accuse me of doing so many bad things all the time. One of these days, I hope you can disagree with me without calling me a bad editor. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 22:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- While I didn't cite any policy, the policy is WP:V, footnote 9, which advises against using
- Improper/questionable sourcing does matter when determining a t-ban and the problem is consistent. For the record, Mother Jones is not "high quality" - it is a generally reliable source with caveats per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Mother Jones. Next, Media Matters, questionable per Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Media_Matters_for_America, and all the cited competitor sources fall under COI. A little refresher can't hurt once in a while...see WP:RS. AtsmeTalk📧 19:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- I don't understand how you find this unclear:
- For what it's worth, I think I've made my point(s), repeatedly, in this discussion, so I plan to refrain from commenting further unless pinged with a direct question. I don't want my commenting to turn into a bludgeon. Plus, I have bookshelves to build! Grandpallama (talk) 18:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- What? Your last bullet point states
- Grandpallama, please do not put words in my mouth. I invoked no policy whatsoever - I never said anything even close to that there is a policy or a guideline or even an essay. Further, I did not say he should be TBANed for it. My last bullet point is clear that I, like you, think these are only warnable offenses, and my last bullet point explained why, and under what conditions I supported a TBAN. I think I was exceptionally clear and you are completely misinterpreting and misrepresenting what I've written. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 18:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Except that this isn't a content dispute. This is you invoking a non-existent policy about RS as part of a justification for imposing a TBAN on an editor, and then doubling down when shocked Wikipedians point out how "breathtakingly wrong" that justification is. Whether or not you like that CNN is a RS for reporting on Fox (or any other subject) can be taken up elsewhere, but imaginary policies can't be used to censure editors. Grandpallama (talk) 18:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Hahaha... CNN is not a "high quality source" like The New York Times. They're not even in the same league. You can't compare cable news to the US's paper of record. But even the US's paper of record is not an appropriate source for negative information about its direct financial competitors. And, Aquillion, believe me, as much as you say you think my position is "indefensible", I think yours is laughable. So what? That's what content disputes are about. Anyway, the place to discuss this is the RSN post you started, not here. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 17:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support with regret, based on the analysis by Levivich and the general response of Soibangla, including especially their most recent comment, which suggests that they just don't get it, likely coupled with a bad case of IDHT. Under the circumstances I don't think they should be editing anything related to post 1932 US Politics. We can revisit the subject in six months and see if they have a better understanding of the problematic nature of their edit. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
- Addendum I actually would prefer the TBan be indefinite with the possibility of review after six months. I am still not seeing any acknowledgement from them that their edit was seriously inappropriate. And while I concede there is a sharp difference of opinion in this discussion as to whether or not it was a BLP vio, there is a strong consensus that it was at the very least UNDUE. Until Soibangla acknowledges this, they should not be editing anything dealing with AP2. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Ad Orientem, the primary reason for your perceived intransigence on my part is your persistent refusal to acknowledge some basic facts of how this topic arose in the first place. For example, in your opening paragraph of this thread, you state
The source for these claims was an attack piece posted on Buzzfeed
, having asserted on the Talk page that it was an op-ed from Buzzfeed, a yellow source, but I showed you there that it was a news report from BuzzfeedNews, a green source. MastCell also showed told you that BuzzfeedNews is a reliable source. Before you struck it, your findings of comments founda rough consensus that no BLP vio occurred, a rough consensus that there are questions of UNDUE and a rough consensus against any sanctions
but now you assertthere is a strong consensus that it was at the very least UNDUE
(italics mine). And if that's the only offense remaining, that could have been — and should have been — properly handled by standard BRD in Talk, which you precipitously bypassed to seek what is tantamount to a death sentence for me — for one edit out of many thousands. You also continue to assert that you had the unilateral authority to ban me on the spot, even though MastCell correctly pointed out that because you reverted my edit, and we were the only participants in the ensuing Talk discussion, you were the INVOLVED party and should properly recuse yourself from asserting authority to ban me. I again refer to MastCell's comments, which succinctly summarize the core problems with your approach, and to which you have never responded. The fact that you never addressed my points on Talk, precipitously escalated to ANI, and then failed to address MastCell's analysis strongly suggests that you are knowingly, willfully and steadfastly ignoring strongly exculpatory evidence in my favor. You refuse to acknowledge any of this, and instead you insist that I simply won't accept any responsibility and further escalate the matter, now returning to calling for my permanent removal.I am truly at a loss to understand what is motivating this.
- Ad Orientem, the primary reason for your perceived intransigence on my part is your persistent refusal to acknowledge some basic facts of how this topic arose in the first place. For example, in your opening paragraph of this thread, you state
Soibangla hasn't done anything wrong by making a bold but well-sourced edit, and the only red flag I see is Ad Orientem escalating to AN/I for a reasonable, appropriately sourced edit without checking the source's reliability...The community has determined that BuzzFeed News is a reliable source. You don’t get to selectively disregard that consensus simply because you personally don’t like the source or its content. Soiblanga did everything right here - he made an edit accurately conveying the content of a reliable source and, when you reverted him, he went to the talk page and calmly discussed it. Threatening him with a block or topic ban is really out of line. — MastCell
- Look, I readily concede from the all-hands-on-deck pile-on now occurring that sometimes I demonstrate a bad attitude, and can sometimes even be nasty, and sometimes make sloppy edits. People are telling me to get my act together. I get it. I really do. I will take it to heart and conscientiously endeavor to do better going forward. soibangla (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose per Aquillon, and could this please be punted to WP:AE? Nothing is going to be accomplished by page long arguments from involved editors. Galobtter (pingó mió) 00:16, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support Initially, I was going to oppose this under the condition Soibangla recognized that the edit was UNDUE and agreed to be more careful in the future. But his response to Ad Orientem above where he tried to negotiate with him changed my mind, as did Levivich's post outlining more examples of policy-violating behavior. Though he certainly is the only editor who does it, adding every bit of negative trivial information you can find to an article about a person or organization you don't like is not an appropriate way to edit. Also, Siobangla recently edited the Fox News article with trivial information about Fox cropping a picture of Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump using CNN as a source. The edit contained a clear BLP violation that called Epstein a "former Trump associate" (something the CNN article did not say). I reverted his edit with a summary indicating it was both a BLP violation and UNDUE. He then restored a modified version of this original edit.--Rusf10 (talk) 01:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support and would suggest an indefinite topic ban, as this type of BLP violation has happened before. I suggest an indef ban because Soibangla was unable to understand that "a claim" and "the claim" are not synonymous:
- Soibangla (with support from Aquillion*) used an ambiguous statement in the NYT to make an unambiguous claim at the Jeffrey Epstein page, which constituted a BLP violation for Epstein's main victim, Virginia Giuffre by stating she admitted to having lied about seeing Bill Clinton on Epstein's island.*, *, *
- Soibangla was told by SlimVirgin in the related RS/N that the cited sentence in the NYT was ambiguous and couldn't be used to make the claim Soibangla was making *
- Soibangla never concedes, continues at Sarah's TP, and then doesn't show up to the related RfC to argue his case. For all we know, he still thinks he was right.
- This false claim was live on the Epstein page for over a month because I was continually disallowed from correcting it. I'm not sure where an editor with the comprehension difficulties exemplified here belongs, but the American Politics area is troubled enough as it is. petrarchan47คุก 04:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- This sounds like a call to ban Soibangla to settle a personal grievance of yours. If so, I don't think you've shown that your pain rises to the level of a community concern. SPECIFICO talk 13:24, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- You're not aggrieved by evidence of a BLP violating editor? Why not? petrarchan47คุก 19:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I was referring to the publication of excerpts from your diary -- matters that have nothing to do with the question at hand. SPECIFICO talk 20:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Soibangla's repeated addition of content was a BLP and WP:V violation. He was told by multiple people that he is wrong to claim there is a
trivial difference between "the" and "a"
; he used WP:OR to make his edit to the Epstein page, and he was in error. He still to this moment argues that he was right, meaning this RfC, Newslinger, and Slim Virgin (and I) were wrong. This is deeply concerning. My addition here has nothing to do with a petty grievance. My intention is to alert fellow editors to a what I see as a serious problem justifying a ban. (I haven't kept a diary, by the way, since I was 15.) petrarchan47คุก 23:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Soibangla's repeated addition of content was a BLP and WP:V violation. He was told by multiple people that he is wrong to claim there is a
- I was referring to the publication of excerpts from your diary -- matters that have nothing to do with the question at hand. SPECIFICO talk 20:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- You're not aggrieved by evidence of a BLP violating editor? Why not? petrarchan47คุก 19:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I confess that that encounter was among the most exasperating I've had on Wikipedia and I finally had to walk away. Your insistence then, and still now, that "a claim" was unspecified in the NYT article is belied by the fact the sentence clearly stated it was a claim that Clinton had visited Epstein's island, which Giuffre later conceded was false. You latched onto parsing the trivial difference between "the" and "a" while disregarding that the sentence clearly stated what "a claim" was about. My repeated efforts to explain this obvious reality to you proved futile. soibangla (talk) 18:33, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- So you do still believe you are right. As Newslinger wrote:
This is an exceptional claim that is only supported by a vague sentence from The New York Times's article. An examination of the Epstein documents, the underlying primary source, failed to reveal information that could be used to support this text.
Guiffre never conceded it was false, and the NYT doesn't directly say she did. In fact, CNN directly countersshe did not refute other details of the Daily Mail story, including that Epstein hosted a dinner on his Caribbean island for President Bill Clinton shortly after Clinton left office.
Multiple editors tried to explain that you cannot conflate a nebulous "a claim" with "the [specific] claim", and indeed your doing so resulted in a false statement printed in Wikipedia that smeared a living person as a liar. You stated thatThe unsealed court documents also showed that Giuffre later acknowledged her previous claim about Clinton visiting the island was false
is the only way to accurately summarize (from NYT)The documents unsealed Friday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that an earlier claim she made about Mr. Clinton visiting Mr. Epstein in the Caribbean was untrue
. This should be worrying to all Wikipedians mainly because you don't seem capable of understanding the problem. petrarchan47คุก 19:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)- From the Daily Mail: On one occasion, she adds, Epstein did invite two young brunettes to a dinner which he gave on his Caribbean island for Mr Clinton shortly after he left office. But, as far as she knows, the ex-President did not take the bait, nor did he here: Epstein once threw a dinner party at the [Manhattan] house in Mr. Clinton’s honor. The former president never showed, but the magazine reported that the other guests included Mr. Trump.
Guiffre never conceded it was false, and the NYT doesn't directly say she did.
The NYT unambiguously reported she did, under oath this time, and no amount of parsing "a" versus "the" can change that. What really happened here is that years ago Giuffre made this claim, Clinton haters accepted it as established fact, incorporated it into their belief systems, it became an element in the evolving Pizzagate/Qanon theories, then years later the allegation was debunked and cognitive dissonance prevented the believers from accepting it. It's disgraceful that by removing that NYT article, WIkipedia has been made passively complicit in falsehoods that contribute to the craziest conspiracy theories ever concocted. That's all I got on this. soibangla (talk) 21:39, 13 July 2020 (UTC)- I hope editors can see the problems here. Soibangla is quoting the Daily Mail, although he acknowledges here that it is unreliable, he then changes the subject to a dinner party in NYC, and launches into a conspiracy theory. He ignores the result of the [RfC and the fact that Newslinger discovered there is no such claim in the source material (court documents) cited by the Times. Soibangla ignores the fact that Newslinger had to issue a request for correction to the Times. Soibangla instead wishes we hadn't removed the piece. He also ignores:
- Sarah SV:
But which claim exactly? ... The WP article discusses "her previous claim" as though there was only one claim—that Clinton visited the island—and therefore that must be the claim that is false. I agree that we can't infer this from the NYT article
- Newslinger:
This is an exceptional claim that is only supported by a vague sentence from The New York Times's article. An examination of the Epstein documents, the underlying primary source, failed to reveal information that could be used to support this text.
- CNN:
According to a transcript of a video deposition Giuffre gave in 2016, she disputed aspects of a 2011 story in the Daily Mail that was based on a series of interviews Giuffre had given...she did not refute other details of the Daily Mail story, including that Epstein hosted a dinner on his Caribbean island for President Bill Clinton shortly after Clinton left office.
- There is now a second alleged witness to Clinton's island visit, as seen in the Netflix documentary, per: Daily Beast, Rolling Stone, and Fox:
A longtime tech worker on the Caribbean island claims he once saw Clinton with Epstein in the porch area of Epstein’s villa home ... Previously, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, who claims she became Epstein’s “sex slave” at age 17, said she recalled seeing Clinton on the island
- Sarah SV:
- petrarchan47คุก 01:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I hope editors can see the problems here. Soibangla is quoting the Daily Mail, although he acknowledges here that it is unreliable, he then changes the subject to a dinner party in NYC, and launches into a conspiracy theory. He ignores the result of the [RfC and the fact that Newslinger discovered there is no such claim in the source material (court documents) cited by the Times. Soibangla ignores the fact that Newslinger had to issue a request for correction to the Times. Soibangla instead wishes we hadn't removed the piece. He also ignores:
- From the Daily Mail: On one occasion, she adds, Epstein did invite two young brunettes to a dinner which he gave on his Caribbean island for Mr Clinton shortly after he left office. But, as far as she knows, the ex-President did not take the bait, nor did he here: Epstein once threw a dinner party at the [Manhattan] house in Mr. Clinton’s honor. The former president never showed, but the magazine reported that the other guests included Mr. Trump.
- So you do still believe you are right. As Newslinger wrote:
- This sounds like a call to ban Soibangla to settle a personal grievance of yours. If so, I don't think you've shown that your pain rises to the level of a community concern. SPECIFICO talk 13:24, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support T-Ban Confess my dealings with Soibangla have been less than pleasant, but, comeon, if the most recent 100 or so edits have been as problematic as the ones shown by Levivich and others above, with that sort of pattern does anyone expect that earlier edits to be any better? While old now, his BLP violating comment here about a WSJ contributing editor "Her opinion ain't worth a bucket of spit. She is notorious for just making stuff up. She is yet another compulsive liar. Period."[245] is not atypical. After I gave him a 3RR reminder he retaliated with [246].--MONGO (talk) 07:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose, per Levivich's analysis, which I found weighted and occasionally bogus. --Calton Talk 10:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support - Largely per Levivich which held a lot of weight for me. I honestly was not sure if I was going to give an opinion here. Me and Soibangla have interacted quite a bit and even had fun and joked around, but it is hard to deny the issues when laid out like this. When taken as a whole it seems to come off as a case of Sealioning. Never accepting that there are legitimate issues with the content they are trying to add to articles and attempting to transfer the onus to the person who reverted. Something all to common in the AP topic area and something that should be addressed. As noted above yes when reverted they generally head to the talk page and start a discussion, which is good. Though as I explained that is not where the issue ends. So when taken as a whole there are major disruptions cased by this.
- I am also rather disturbed at the debate over the BuzzFeed News article. Yes RSP says generally reliable, but the purpose of RSP is not if something is or is not reliable but if it is generally reliable. That is a distinction that is worth mentioning, it is still a case by case basis. The community has consensus that it is generally reliable, not that it is always reliable. So we have BuzzFeed News with their source being The Daily Stormer attacking a BLP. In this instance I would argue that the BuzzFeed article is not a RS for that info on a BLP. There are also arguments while it is not a BLP vio it is just a UNDUE situation. That is false as well. If it is UNDUE for a BLP it is a BLP vio to push to include it. PackMecEng (talk) 16:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose for now, anyway. This thread opened with what should've been a non-starter. It's a sourced statement (and not to an op-ed in an unreliable source, as was presented) that relates to an aspect of Tucker Carlson that gets an awful lot of press attention. It's not a BLP violation that needs addressing on a noticeboard. That doesn't mean I think it should be in either the Daily Stormer or the Carlson article (that particular language is probably undue for both), but it was added one time, reverted, and not restored ... it's a content dispute. As for Levivich's list above, I agree with Aquillion about some of it, and there are some things that are minorly concerning. I checked the AN/ANI history for other instances of Soibangla being reported here, assuming that to jump so quickly to a tban proposal there must be some history, but there's none I can find. I see one 3RR block from six years ago and one AE request that was closed as a content dispute without action (as this should've been). Soibangla, if this is closed without action, maybe take it as advice to try to err on the side of caution and discussion a bit more? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:42, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support Per Levivich, especially this part:
Normally I wouldn't suggest TBANing somebody for these kinds of edits, just sort of advising them about using high-quality sources and being more careful, etc., but the attitude, particularly their response to this thread, makes me think the editor is not interested in learning how to improve, and for as long as that remains the case, I support a BLP and AP2 TBAN
.Shinealittlelight (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2020 (UTC) - Comment Without commenting on soibangla’s overall conduct, I’d like to object to User:Levivich’s misleading characterization of the discussion at Talk:Rudy Giuliani, where he seems to imply that I found fault with soibangla at that page. I'd also like to thank User:Grandpallama for correcting and clarifying the situation; without his ping I might not have noticed this thread. In fact I did not criticize soibangla’s talk page conduct; I merely warned him and the other editor for edit warring. My talk page criticisms were directed to the other editor, who was repeatedly disparaging and insulting soibangla. Please disregard that item in Levivich’s list of accusations. -- MelanieN (talk) 18:57, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- MelanieN, sorry, what misleading characterization do you see in what I wrote:
The history of Rudy Giuliani and like most of Talk:Rudy Giuliani (see, e.g., "The two of you need to STOP the edit warring"), including comments like [94] [95] [96] [97]
? I'm not "implying" that you found fault, I'm quoting your explicit finding of fault. Are you saying the two of them were not edit warring on Rudy Giuliani? Looking at the history of the page, it looks to me like they were. Those four diffs are the specific concerns I had at that talk page, and they're all by soiblanga, not by you. I guess I should have just said "edit warring at Rudy Giuliani with another editor" rather than quoting you; I'll do that next time; and it certainly wasn't my intent to mischaracterize you, but I didn't realize that you didn't think they were edit warring? Levivich [dubious – discuss] 19:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)- I did warn them both for edit warring. My point here is that
I did not criticize soibangla’s talk page conduct
- which is what was implied by your citing me along with a bunch of links to things soibangla said. If anything, I thought soibangla was remaining commendably calm and content-focused, rather than getting baited into attacking back. -- MelanieN (talk) 19:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
- I did warn them both for edit warring. My point here is that
- MelanieN, sorry, what misleading characterization do you see in what I wrote:
- Oppose As per Aquillon and Grandpallama. A Tban is way overboard. Curdle (talk) 06:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support largely per Levivich's analysis. Mr Ernie (talk) 09:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose. Aquillon, Grandpallama, and Rhododendrites laid it out well. Soibangla can be more careful, but I do not see sanctionable content here rising to the level of anything beyond a word of advice. Neutralitytalk 19:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose The initial content dispute should have been discussed further at article talk or possibly BLPN, there was no conduct issue that needed to be escalated to ANI. It's also unclear what
"...disregarded WP:Consensus that was against adding such material"
in the tban proposal refers to since the material in question doesn't seem to have been previously discussed, perhaps Atsme could clarify?
- Regarding the sources, CNN and Buzzfeed News are generally reliable, especially in cases like these where they are giving factual accounts of what took place and quoting those involved. The rest of Levivich's list varies in quality, as others have pointed out, but again there's nothing that can't be resolved through our normal editorial processes. –dlthewave ☎ 20:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose. This request was triggered by an instance in which Soibangla made a single reasonably-sourced edit; the edit was reverted on WP:DUE grounds; and discussion ensued at the talkpage. In other words, a standard WP:BRD cycle. There was no BLP violation, as consensus above has made clear. He made a bold edit; discussion & consensus led to the conclusion that the material didn't belong in the article; and as far as I can tell, Soibangla has accepted that and not tried to reinstate it or to edit-war. I don't really get the efforts to paint this as some sort of abhorrent behavior, nor to compel an apology for it. MastCell Talk 21:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose: This entire process has been a sham from the getgo, it was predicated on a false pretext, and it should be immediately closed without further consideration. There is an overwhelming abundance of evidence, growing by the day, now beyond any shadow of a doubt, that this began with shoddy police work, leading to a fraudulent indictment, followed by prosecutorial misconduct which over time escalated from merely improper to egregious to actually malicious. It opened the door to an angry mob to storm into the courtroom with torches and pitchforks demanding vigilante justice for a variety of unrelated grievances and grudges, often presenting dubious evidence. With increasing intensity, the prosecutor has attempted to coerce me into making a false confession for a crime that did not happen, to take a plea deal for a lighter sentence, but if I don't capitulate to this coercion, I will be sentenced to death — all to make me the fall guy for the spectacular blunder he made that he cannot own up to and must cover up. Because the original charge was bogus, this topic should never have been opened, and the ensuing vote is thereby invalid. This farce has visited a great wrong on me, I am being framed and railroaded, which is needlessly (but not necessarily unintentionally) inflicting enormous and irreparable damage to my reputation, poisoning the well for my future participation on Wikipedia. This is the stuff of a kangaroo court found in totalitarian regimes. soibangla (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oof. I would gently suggest it's in your best interest to let this play out now based upon all the evidence that's been submitted, because further commenting can only hurt, not help, you. And whatever the validity of the initial claims (which I obviously had serious concerns with), if people feel you're engaging in battleground behavior now in this discussion, that can absolutely be grounds for a sanction. I understand the frustration that would lead to the courtroom rhetoric and the deliberate hyperbole, but I don't think it is to your advantage. Grandpallama (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Jeez. Talk about acute rhetorical excesses which prove why the ban is needed... El_C 23:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- I would suggest taking a look at the evidence I provided and the responses from Soibangla; I think it proves a ban is warranted and that some sort of mentorship should be required for Soibangla to continue editing any topic area. There are staggering comprehension issues and I would argue that to ignore them is grossly unfair to other editors. petrarchan47คุก 01:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- You're not helping yourself here. Several of us have opposed this proposal due to lack of merit in the complaint(s) it's predicated upon, but have expressed concern about [your approach, more or less]. These comments exacerbate those concerns and certainly aren't going to convince any in the support column. My advice: you've made your frustration known; the time now is to take it down a few levels and abstain from commenting unless it's going to be measured and at least somewhat reflective. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:19, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose: Excuse this wall of text, but the support votes are based on Levivich's egregiously deceptive wall-of-text, so it needs rebutting. The support votes are based on a bad and misleading analysis by Levivich who has a track record of posting similarly shoddy analyses to get editors banned whom he disagrees with and who edit against his POV while he similarly skews the facts to unflinchingly defend the most problematic editors on this encyclopedia for the sole reason that they edit content in a way that he personally likes. When Levivich sought to get me banned, he literally cited examples of me edit-warring with white supremacist sockpuppets with 88 in their username, genocide denying IPs and other insanity as an example of my horrible edit-warring ways. This is not an editor who engages in careful nuanced analysis of a situation and weighs evidence accordingly. Instead, he sifts through everything in an editor's past and drowns the discussion with a Gish gallop mixture of bad evidence, straight-up deceptions, and of course the occasional mistake that any editor might make. Some editors are then impressed with what superficially appears to be a thorough and well-formatted, even though it falls apart upon closer examination. Going through Levivich's list of 12 bullet points, only three of them are problematic (and all of them would be fixed by instructing Soibangla of how the attribution rule works precisely and that BLP doesn't just refer to biographies) and the rest of the bullet points contain errors by Levivich or are nothingburgers:
- "this is not Carlson's BLP" does indicate that the user doesn't fully realize that BLP doesn't merely refer to "biographies" (which is a common mistake that non-veteran editors might make). Now he knows better. Nothingburger.
- Levivich falsely claims that RSP says that Mother Jones "requires attribution for politics" (it says MoJo "may" neeed attribution). Furthermore, the content that Soibangla added (sourced to Mojo) is blatantly accurate (and confirmed by other RS), meaning that the "may" qualifier doesn't apply in any way whatsoever.[247]
- Analyses by Media Matters should be attributed, but their analysis is 100% correct and verifiable. Making the editor aware of the attribution requirement (even in cases when content is 100% accurate and verifiable) would solve the issue. Nothingburger.
- There is nothing in the slightest wrong with citing CNN, a RS, in an article about Fox News[248]. It's embarrassing for someone to actually type this out and present it as a reason to ban someone, but it does not surprise me in the slightest that this is the level that Levivich stoops to.
- I agree that the Obama content should be attributed[249], but it doesn't seem like a big issue (there is lots of RS content, including academic, on Obama and his rhetoric on race, which has often been characterized as unusually conservative). I saw the edit, and considered reverting it or exploring the sourcing, but decided not to, because I was aware of the existing academic debate on the topic. It's a nothingburger. It also conflicts with your claim that Soibangla has a pro-Democrat bias.
- There's nothing at all wrong with the content on Obama and police[250], beyond the usual tweaks to language and placement that applies to most content on this encyclopedia. The editor uses multiple secondary RS, which would be sufficient on their own as citations for the content, but also does readers the additional service of adding supplementary primary sources (which are not needed, but are helpful additions). As for picking one particular quote[251] (in addition to all the secondary RS content), our bios on presidents and political figures are filled to the brim with primary sourced quotes. I have a very strict anti-primary source policy (which many other editors do not have, definitely not Levivich), but there's nothing in the slightest sanctionable about this. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- That Levivich uses this as an example gets to the rotten heart of his case: [252]. It is 100% a verifiable falsehood and the RS clearly identifies it as false. Although it doesn't explicitly use the term "false", it just delineates how it's false. Countless other RS explicitly call it false. Nothingburger.
- The Rudy Giuliani diffs, which were misrepresented to portray Soibangla as having been scolded by an admin, have been debunked by other editors, including the admin in question. Literally in the same comment by MelanieN that Levivich misleadingly quotes, she says that a particular editor is "the one who keeps trying to change or remove longstanding content, you need to explain and establish your reasons for doing so; you can’t just keep doing it." Was she saying it to Soibangla? No. She was saying it to the editor who Soibangla was tangling with. Levivich doesn't present such context, because it flies completely against the case that he's trying to make. It's infuriating to read such deception, and it saddens me that some lazy editors read Levivich's well-formatted wall of text, take Levivich's argument in good faith, and presume that Soibangla is an extremely troublesome editor on the basis of this deceptive analysis.
- I checked the first diff: [253]. Who cares? What is this? Nothingburger. Throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if something will stick.
- It's not nice to respond that way to Doug Weller. Many editors who are engaged in content disputes do not respond well when they get templated or get instructed to follow the rules.
- In this bullet point, Levivich is whining about how Soibangla is anti-Republican. However, as his diffs have already shown, Soibangla added content to Obama's bio which could clearly be construed as negative. But then again, Soibangla also added content about how Mike Pence brazenly lied and Levivich personally disagrees that it was a lie (which points to Levivich's personal politics), so Soibangla must anti-Republican and so biased that he is not fit for editing.
- Levivich tries to portray himself as a neutral observer with his "Normally I wouldn't suggest TBANing somebody for these kinds of edits [BUT YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY BAN THEM]" bullet point, yet Levivich has shown a strong bias on these subjects and has already tried to ban editors with a different POV and staunchly defended way more troublesome editors who fit his POV. If someone were to present these diffs as evidence of SashiRolls's troublesome editing, it would rightfully be laughed off this noticeboard and Levivich would be calling for a boomerang on the proposer of the sanction.
- A final note: it's unbelievable to see Levivich present himself as an ardent principled stickler for high-quality sources and consensus when Levivich last year sought to scrub RS content from 2018 United States elections (because he personally disagreed with what the RS were saying and
he could only come up with rubbish op-eds to defend hiswanted to juxtapose RS content with misleading pro-Republican talking points of what the article should say), and the dysfunction went so far that he even brazenly removed content[254] from the page after it was approved by consensus in a RfC[255]. Nothing that he accuses Soibangla of reaches that level of tendentiousness. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 01:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)- Thank you for calling it "well formatted". I appreciate the compliment. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 01:33, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Pure WP:BATTLEFIELD of an indictment, filled with vague innuendo. Accusing Levivich of the very thing being submitted. This account is not matter of fact. It descends the level of debate. Much like with Soibangla's latest statement. Way too much vitriol, which is not conducive to a healthy discussion. El_C 02:19, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Was that wall of text intended to defend Soibangla or shit on Levivich? PackMecEng (talk) 04:19, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, all due respect to your concerns about the level of discource, but
Pure WP:BATTLEFIELD of an indictment, filled with vague innuendo
is a pretty accurate description of the evidence Levivich presented (though it was maybe not so vague). Multiple editors have called bullshit on it, and dissected portions of it; I would think every admin should be alarmed that Melanie, strategically not pinged when she was quoted, felt obligated to come to this discussion just to object to the characterization of her actions and selective quotation of her statements. And every editor (including admins) should be alarmed at the "CNN is fake news" dog whistle in this discussion; arguing that CNN is not a high quality (i.e., reliable) source is the domain of WP:NOTHERE SPAs. There's an understandable focus on Levivich's diffs and claims because they have served as a hinge for many of the support votes. Grandpallama (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2020 (UTC)- Grandpallama,
arguing that CNN is not a high quality (i.e., reliable) source
... are you kidding? Did you just say "high quality" = "reliable"? That's not true. "Reliable" is like a minimum standard, and "high quality" would be above that. CNN is not a "high quality" sources. That doesn't mean it's fake news. More concerning to me than soiblanga's conduct is how many AP2 editors apparently have ridiculously bad ideas about source quality. It's bad enough that you don't think the original edit was a BLP violation -- it's even worse that you think CNN is a "high quality" source. "High quality" refers to academic sources and the very top tier journalist sources like BBC and NYT. It doesn't cover CNN or MSNBC or Fox News or Buzzfeed News. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 13:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)- As I said, admins and editors should be alarmed. Grandpallama (talk) 13:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Anyone who cannot perceive the difference in quality between CNN and The New York Times should not be editing AP2. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 13:32, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Grandpallama, sorry, but I still don't think derision and battleground rhetoric ought to have any place in this discussion. If editors, of either side, feel so strongly about the subject matter (AP2) to the point that they can't help themselves but to descend to that level of debate, they should probably just not participate in it from the outset. Again, that also includes Soibangla themselves. I am rather firm in that position. El_C 14:41, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, I am not seeing Grandpallama expressing any strong view as to AP2 subject matter. I do see that Grandpallama has expressed concern as to Levivich's conduct, and that conduct has been a significant factor in this thread and discussion. As you may recall, @TonyBallioni: raised similar concerns about Levivich's conduct and participation in community discussions, which were then documented by various editors at a June 2020 ANI thread. Given the unfortunate possibility that some editors on the current thread may rely on Levivich's post largely because it is a well-formatted list of assertions that is onerous to fact-check, I do not think Grandpallama's participation was out of bounds here, where everyone's behavior is potentially on the line. SPECIFICO talk 15:36, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for calling it "well-formatted". I really appreciate everybody complimenting me on the formatting of my posts. SPECIFICO, do you think our colleagues are so stupid as to simply accept whatever I say without checking it for themselves? Are you willing to go "on record" as claiming that everyone voting "support" has been bamboozled by the formatting of my post? Or do you think our colleagues think for themselves? Levivich [dubious – discuss] 15:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- SPECIFICO, my complaint was never about Grandpallama's behaviour, I think you misunderstood to whom the reference was intended. It was indended toward this comment (incomplete diff) by Snooganssnoogans and this comment by Soibangla. El_C 15:46, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, Levivich, I was just quoting @Snooganssnoogans: that your indictment was "well-formatted". But your quick retort with a silly straw-man rhetorical question is the same kind of unconstructive behavior by you that was discussed at the previous ANI and now this one. For the record: I do not think we have stupid WP edtiors or WP editors who are easily fooled. But, I do think we have editors who are busy IRL and on WP and do not always take the time to do the exhaustive fact-checking of links and their contexts that, in the given your style of argumentation, often reveals misrepresentations such as have been documented by other editors here. SPECIFICO talk 15:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, I am not seeing Grandpallama expressing any strong view as to AP2 subject matter. I do see that Grandpallama has expressed concern as to Levivich's conduct, and that conduct has been a significant factor in this thread and discussion. As you may recall, @TonyBallioni: raised similar concerns about Levivich's conduct and participation in community discussions, which were then documented by various editors at a June 2020 ANI thread. Given the unfortunate possibility that some editors on the current thread may rely on Levivich's post largely because it is a well-formatted list of assertions that is onerous to fact-check, I do not think Grandpallama's participation was out of bounds here, where everyone's behavior is potentially on the line. SPECIFICO talk 15:36, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- As I said, admins and editors should be alarmed. Grandpallama (talk) 13:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Grandpallama,
- El_C, all due respect to your concerns about the level of discource, but
- OpposeYou can’t topic ban someone on the basis of such flimsy evidence. P-K3 (talk) 02:36, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- ArbCom Principles - It is rather disconcerting that our BLP policy has been so misunderstood, and in some instances dismissed, or at least not understood in compliance with the precedent set by ArbCom in the following case: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Vivaldi#Principles. I have listed the most relevant principals that apply here regarding the defamatory material and the attempt to imply "guilt by association" when the two are not associated at all, which makes the attempt even worse:
- Reliable sources for biographical material
- 3) Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Reliable sources requires that any assertion in a biography of a living person that might be defamatory if untrue must be sourced. Without reliable third-party sources, a biography will violate No original research and Verifiability, and could lead to libel claims.
- Information available solely on partisan websites or in obscure newspapers should be handled with caution, and, if derogatory, should not be used at all. Information found in self-published books, newspapers, or websites/blogs should never be used, unless written by the subject (see below).
- Not all widely read newspapers and magazines are equally reliable. There are some magazines and newspapers which print gossip much of which is false. While such information may be titillating that does not mean it has a place here. Before repeating such gossip ask yourself consider if the information is true and if it is relevant to an encyclopaedic article on that subject. When these magazines print information they suspect is untrue they often include weasel phrases. Look out for these. If the magazine doesn't think the story is true, then why should we?
- Quotation of material from an unreliable source
- 8) Quotation of material from an unreliable source by a source generally considered reliable does not render the information acceptable for inclusion in Wikipedia.
- Guilt by association
- 10) Guilt by association is never a sufficient reason to include negative information about third parties in a biography. At a minimum, there should be reliable sources showing a direct relationship between the conduct of the third parties and the conduct of the subject (i.e. a nexus), or that the subject knew or should have known about and could have prevented the conduct of the third parties.
- Reliable sources for biographical material
- I'd say the above covers it quite well but I will add that WP:REDFLAG also applies here, and so does WP:LABEL. Atsme Talk 📧 03:10, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose: Insufficient evidence of intractable issues: no prior recent sanctions or ANI discussion; the edit in question was discussed but not reinstated. --K.e.coffman (talk) 04:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support: Per Levivich's analysis, which I find very convincing. This edit by Soibangla is not a one-time situation, and it is essential that Wikipedia strictly adheres to NPOV. --1990'sguy (talk) 15:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Someone who cites Levivich's egregiously deceptive analysis at this point in the discussion should have their vote fully disregarded. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:18, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Suggest Close As the OP I note that this discussion has been open for four full days (+). That is long enough and those who wished to comment have had a reasonable opportunity to do so. I'm not a fan of the never ending debates that just keep going over the same ground one sometimes finds on noticeboards. Perhaps an univolved admin can review the discussion and close it. Thanks. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:58, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I can't see closing a discussion that is ongoing, with additions by editors who are raising new points in response to others. Don't we generally wait until the thread has died down before reaching a conclusion about what's under consideration? SPECIFICO talk 17:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Have you not seen this close, which led to this review? Atsme Talk 📧 22:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose sanctions. I do not believe this is a BLP violation so egregious that it deserved to be brought straight to ANI with no intervening BRD process. This entire mess is because people have misunderstood the difference between Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed News. Soibangla quoted a legitimate news source, Buzzfeed News, which made the statement. There are legitimate concerns that this might not be DUE as it was applied, but the insistence that it was a blatant BLP violation seems over the top. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- FWIW, I am not confusing BF with BFN. I think this edit is a BLP violation because it is an WP:EXTRAORDINARY statement without extraordinary sourcing, and that makes it "poorly sourced" within the meaning of WP:BLP. Further, the single source, BFN, is repeating something from The Daily Stormer, and per the Arbcom principle linked above, "Quotation of material from an unreliable source by a source generally considered reliable does not render the information acceptable for inclusion in Wikipedia". I'm quite alarmed to see a number of editors say that this edit is an OK edit. It's BFN repeating The Daily Stormer saying someone is a friend of white supremacists. If it said "so-and-so is Jewish", there would be wide agreement that the one source wasn't enough to call the guy Jewish. Cuz we'd need at least a statement of self-identification for that. But somehow a single source repeating a non-RS is enough to say he's a white supremacist. In my book, it's much worse to call someone a white supremacist than to call them Jewish. Our standard of sourcing for "white supremacist" should be at least as rigorous as it is for ethnicity or religion. Levivich [dubious – discuss] 17:52, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Whatever the merits, Levivich has again set up a straw man. The analogous statement would, of course, be if it said "X said, 'A said so-and-so is Jewish'" NOT "X said so-and-so is Jewish". The former is easy to verify, which turns out to have been the case here. Note, I am not commenting on whether the initial edit was DUE. SPECIFICO talk 18:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's not a straw man, it's the heart of it. What alarms me is specifically (no pun intended) that you (and others) think "[white supremacist] said [person] is a white supremacist" is different than "[person] is a white supremacist". The two statements have the same meaning and effect: to suggest to our reader that [person] is a white supremacist. The edit in question exactly follows the format of [white supremacist] said [person] is a white supremacist, and it's only cited to one source, and not even a top-notch source at that (not academic, BBC, NYT, WaPo, etc.) Levivich [dubious – discuss] 18:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia has always made a fundamental distinction between in-text attribution and Wikipedia-voice ("According to X, Y is a..." vs. "Y is a..."). In one case, X is making a claim which we report (if it's notable/due-weight/etc), and in the other case Wikipedia is asserting something as fact. That distinction is codified in basic site policy, so it's incorrect to claim that these two statements are equivalent. MastCell Talk 20:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Levivich, speaking of attribution, you attribute a view to me that has no basis in anything I have ever done or said on Wikipedia. That's may not rise to a personal attack, but it is disingenuous and couterproductive. Yet another straw man piggybacked on the soft shoulders of the other two stuffed puppets. You repeatedly make arguments, many but not all of which are logically correct, that have no basis in fact and are unsupported by the vague and misrepresented "evidence" you cite. For the record, I don't have any opinion about Daily Stormer, Tucker Carlson, or any other content that's been raised in this dispute. I do think that Levivich's behavior in this thread qualifies him for a TBAN and I would support that if anyone would like to propose it. SPECIFICO talk 22:23, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose per MastCell, Snoogans and others. This discussion has gone on long enough, so I won't repeat their arguments again, but suffice to say a topic ban is not warranted here. Calidum 17:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose This was a content dispute that should not have been escalated. The WEIGHT issue is irrelevant. Soibangla did not edit war. The purported evidence of other additional or tangential problems has been debunked by several editors. SPECIFICO talk 18:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Comment(!voted above) : A number of editors who object to the tban do so based on the not unreasonable stance that the single edit to the Daily Stormer article was insufficient to warrant a tban. I think many supporting the tban, myself included, would agree. The issue is this is part of a pattern of both bad editorial choices compounded by BATTLEGROUND behavior when confronted. I gave two examples above from my personal experience with this editor. In one case they were making very POV edits [[256]] which were edit warred into the article after myself and another editor objected. Rather than engage in a good faith discussion Soibangla accused someone of lying. Their statement was vague enough so they could deny that either myself or the other opposing editor was specifically the target of the statement but they refused to identify the editors in question [[257]]. I think a question by an admin prompted their eventual striking of the comment. This pattern of highly questionable edit then hostility towards anyone who questions the edit is a repeating pattern. Here Soibangla casts aspersions (suggesting I don't like them) and then says that is evidence they are doing good work here [[258]]. Right or wrong, how is suggesting another editor "doesn't like you" not BATTLEGROUND? The suggestion that that making an editor "dislike" someone is proof they are improving Wikipedia is really a problem. This certainly isn't behavior reserved for me. Here Awilley tells Soibangla to discuss content, not contributors[[259]]. This was an informal warning before Soibangla discussed me rather than our content disagreement. Soibangla seemed to ignore the warning and was warned just a month later by the same admin[[260]] for this edit summary [[261]]. Looking through Soibangla's edit history and you can find more BATTLEGROUND edit summaries [[262]], [[263]]. None of this improves civility in controversial topic areas. Springee (talk) 19:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- One problem that I and other editors have is that there has been no formal warning given to soibangla. It's not mandatory to receive such before a TBAN is considered, but the problem should be so pervasive and disruptive that it's obvious to all that skipping right past the warning stage is necessary. In this case, not only has there not been any warning, but the TBAN proposal went straight to 6 months. It seems very excessive, especially given that blocks/bans are supposed to be preventative; in a good faith situation, an editor should get that warning first and a chance to demonstrate correction. The question of the proposal isn't whether or not problematic behavior has been demonstrated, but whether the proposed action is suitable in proportion to the behavior, and whether it is necessary to prevent further problematic behavior. Grandpallama (talk) 19:34, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- That is a fair point. I think Soibangla has previously been warned enough by enough editors that a formal warning isn't required for this tban. However, if consensus doesn't support a Tban I would suggest a warning including strict adherence to CIVIL and rules related to BLP. It's clear many editors see a problem here. Springee (talk) 19:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC) underline edit added for clarification Springee (talk) 21:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think a formal warning is probably merited. There seems to have been some disagreement in the discussion before the proposal about whether the edit that prompted this actually constituted a BLP violation, but I think I see fairly clear consensus that battleground language and attitude is present, and should be addressed. Grandpallama (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's a good summary. I can live with that. I admit that I'm still taken aback by this aggressive comment that soibangla had made right in this very ANI. That does not reveal a lot of self-reflection, I'm sorry to say. Some recognition is due about maintaining nominal decorum. Stressful times, I get it. But let's retain some perspective. El_C 22:21, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- You may be right and even though I would prefer a tban, perhaps its best to go the other way. A warning that states zero tolerance for further battleground behavior, further focusing on the editor rather than the content and failures to follow BLP policies should address the issue. If Soilbangla follows the rules then those of us who supported the tban should be satisfied as the problem will be addressed. If El_C's concerns are correct any admin will be within their discretion to tban for failing to heed the warning. Springee (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- El_C, it is an aggressive comment, and it does not reveal much self-reflection. And if it were the inciting incident, I might feel differently. But being brought to ANI is going to make someone angry and defensive, especially after seeing the majority of the admins who had weighed in pre-proposal express skepticism, and so the indignation of that post isn't terribly surprising to me. It's not unlike the raging that you see editors engage in after a block to work their frustration out of their system. It certainly adds weight to the argument that a warning is in order. Grandpallama (talk) 02:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- You may be right and even though I would prefer a tban, perhaps its best to go the other way. A warning that states zero tolerance for further battleground behavior, further focusing on the editor rather than the content and failures to follow BLP policies should address the issue. If Soilbangla follows the rules then those of us who supported the tban should be satisfied as the problem will be addressed. If El_C's concerns are correct any admin will be within their discretion to tban for failing to heed the warning. Springee (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- That's a good summary. I can live with that. I admit that I'm still taken aback by this aggressive comment that soibangla had made right in this very ANI. That does not reveal a lot of self-reflection, I'm sorry to say. Some recognition is due about maintaining nominal decorum. Stressful times, I get it. But let's retain some perspective. El_C 22:21, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think a formal warning is probably merited. There seems to have been some disagreement in the discussion before the proposal about whether the edit that prompted this actually constituted a BLP violation, but I think I see fairly clear consensus that battleground language and attitude is present, and should be addressed. Grandpallama (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- That is a fair point. I think Soibangla has previously been warned enough by enough editors that a formal warning isn't required for this tban. However, if consensus doesn't support a Tban I would suggest a warning including strict adherence to CIVIL and rules related to BLP. It's clear many editors see a problem here. Springee (talk) 19:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC) underline edit added for clarification Springee (talk) 21:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- One problem that I and other editors have is that there has been no formal warning given to soibangla. It's not mandatory to receive such before a TBAN is considered, but the problem should be so pervasive and disruptive that it's obvious to all that skipping right past the warning stage is necessary. In this case, not only has there not been any warning, but the TBAN proposal went straight to 6 months. It seems very excessive, especially given that blocks/bans are supposed to be preventative; in a good faith situation, an editor should get that warning first and a chance to demonstrate correction. The question of the proposal isn't whether or not problematic behavior has been demonstrated, but whether the proposed action is suitable in proportion to the behavior, and whether it is necessary to prevent further problematic behavior. Grandpallama (talk) 19:34, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Per WP:NOPUNISH Blocks and bans are preventative, not punitive. Soibangla's bahvior demonstrates an understanding and does not require a a TBAN in order to prevent disruption to the encyclopedia. Because of this fact I was troubled by the No-Deal comment from Ad Orientum. Lightburst (talk) 19:44, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
Proposal for an indef t-ban
| Let's call this "no quorum". But since quorum isn't really a thing here, I find that consensus is against this proposal. Also per the section above. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:03, 17 July 2020 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'd like to formalize my suggestion that this user be indefinitely topic banned from American Politics (post 1932) as a repeat WP:BLP offender. To borrow from the OP, I believe serious concerns exist regarding [Soibangla's] general competence to be editing subjects of a highly sensitive and controversial nature
.
At the Jeffrey Epstein article, Soibangla inserted a false statement about Virginia Roberts Giuffre, and undid my attempts to remove the BLP violation. Multiple editors and admins attempted to explain the problems with his edits to no avail. There is no reason to believe he would not repeat the same mistake again.
His source is a nebulous statement in an August 19, 2019 NYT article: The documents unsealed Friday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that an earlier claim she made about Mr. Clinton visiting Mr. Epstein in the Caribbean was untrue.
In an early October RS/N, Newslinger * and Sarah SV joined me in saying that the NYT should not be used to support Soibangla's text because it is too ambiguous. Soibangla continues to declare the NYT is unambiguous *, and on Oct 12 removes from the Epstein page an accurate summary of the NYT piece, along with a Forbe's-cited mention of Clinton on the island. Newslinger tries to explain to Soibangla that the claim is unspecified, it is "about", meaning "related to". Soi calls this "insanity". Newslinger tries again but is ignored. The RfC unanimously decided to remove the NYT piece; Newslinger wrote This is an exceptional claim that is only supported by a vague sentence from The New York Times's article. An examination of the Epstein documents, the underlying primary source, failed to reveal information that could be used to support this text.
Soibangla still believes he was right and we were all wrong, saying on July 13 The NYT unambiguously reported...and no amount of parsing "a" versus "the" can change that.
and It's disgraceful that by removing that NYT article, WIkipedia has been made passively complicit in falsehoods that contribute to the craziest conspiracy theories ever concocted.
petrarchan47คุก 00:52, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- There's a proposal for a 6 month topic ban that looks unlikely to be closed with action (we'll see, I guess). Now that we're here, you're proposing a more severe sanction ... by introducing diffs from last year? And to look at the subject of the diffs it looks like a perfectly legitimate difference of opinion in which consensus was not in Soibangla's favor and he/she thinks we got it wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. If the edit war were still going on, that would be one thing, but you're bringing up an old dispute and holding up Soibangla's disagreement with the result as a smoking gun? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 01:52, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
- Rhododendrites, your characterization is entirely correct. Petrarchan47 effectively insisted the NYT reported this:
The documents unsealed Friday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that an earlier claim she made was untrue
- so Petrarchan47 asserted the NYT did not specify the nature of the claim, when actually they reported this:
The documents unsealed Friday also include an acknowledgment from one of Mr. Epstein’s accusers, Virginia Giuffre, that an earlier claim she made about Mr. Clinton visiting Mr. Epstein in the Caribbean was untrue
- After my attempts to show the sentence was unambiguous proved futile, I abandoned the matter in exasperation, an RfC was later opened, other editors reached a consensus without my participation, and I have ever since accepted that consensus although I continue to insist it is incorrect. soibangla (talk) 17:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
