위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive913

Wikipedia:
알림판 아카이브
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기타 링크

WP의 MfD: 위키백과의 개혁

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

여러 명의 관리자가 이 토론을 거치고 양쪽에 있는 다양한 사용자들의 의견과 다양한 의견에서 발생하는 불친절함과 실랑이를 멈추도록 요청할 수 있을까?나는 이것이 이런 유형의 요청에 대한 '일반적인' 게시판이 아니라는 것을 알고 있지만, 에세이/제안서의 토픽 페이지와 MfD에 대한 논평 때문에 여러 명의 사용자들이 이곳으로 와야 할 수도 있다.2016년 2월 2일(UTC) 02:43, 2호 정신병원 102호실의 건배, 미친 의사. WP에도 게재:AN[응답]

@Drcrazy102: 나는 모든 사람들이 침착하도록 토론에 대한 일반적인 메모를 붙였다.나는 토론을 끝내려고 생각했지만, 그렇게 되면 더 많은 혼란을 야기해서 그것이 해결되겠지, 그래서 나는 MfD가 7일 내내 운영될 것이라고 제안했다.나는 James500이 가장 선동적인 발언을 하는 것 같아 NPA 경고를 떨어뜨렸다.리치333(talk)(cont) 10:15, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워나와 몇몇 다른 사람들이 사용자 공간에서 이 문제에 대해 동의하는 데 실패한 콘텐츠에 대한 확실한 고정관념을 가진 사람들이 제안할 수 있는 정확한 장소로서 괜찮다는 것이 옳다.가이(도움말!) 13:04, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

약한 구실을 가진 '첨단 인공지능으로 인한 존재 위험' 페이지 비판 섹션 삭제

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

다음 관리자: 덜 틀린 것 같은 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Silence / MIRI 및/또는 FHI(첨단 인공지능으로부터 기부를 받아들이고 실존적 위험을 조장하는 것)는 이러한 차이점으로 비판의 전체 부분을 삭제했다.https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Existential_risk_from_advanced_artificial_intelligence&diff=prev&oldid=703313269 내가 한 일은 토크 섹션에서 제안된 비판 섹션을 베끼고 잘 알려진 몇 가지 이의제기를 덧붙이고, 머스크와 호킹이 최근에 받은 루다이트 상을 언급하는 것이었다.이러한 비판을 억제하는 것이 이러한 기관들이 대중으로부터 더 쉽게 자금을 지원받는 데 도움이 될 것이기 때문에 여기에는 이해의 충돌이 있다.이들 조직은 실제 AI 연구로 위장한 일련의 나쁜 주장인 AI 종말론 '철학'을 대중화함으로써 번창하고 있으며, 많은 기계학습 연구자들로부터 심한 비판을 받아왔지만, 그들은 사회공학에 매우 능하고 사이언톨로지처럼 비판을 막기 위해 모든 방법을 동원하고 있다.제발 이 반달들이 매우 논란이 많은 주제에 대한 비판을 막도록 내버려두지 마십시오.그들은 또한 기본적으로 많은 것을 가로지르는 그들 자신의 작업에 참고자료를 추가해 왔다.나는 그들이 쓴 허튼소리는 건드리지 않았지만, 과학적으로 신뢰할 수 있는 백과사전에서 "창조론자들은 대개 터무니없는 편견을 가지고 있다"고 말했기 때문에 전체 부분을 삭제하는 것은 환영받아서는 안 된다.많은 AI 연구자들(나 포함)은 자신들의 주장이 사이비 과학적이라고 믿고 있다.제발 내버려두지 말고 비판에 관한 부분을 파괴하지 못하게 해 줘. --Exa~enwiki (대화) 20:13, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

몇 가지 점
  • 위에서 언급한 사용자에게 알리는 것을 잊으셨습니다.내가 바로잡았어.
  • 너의 실제 목적은 무엇이니?위의 진술은 좀 이해할 수 없다.
  • 위에 잘못 배치된 ANI 태그를 제거했다.
상각(T)(C) 20:24, 2016년 2월 4일(UTC)[응답]
이것은 나에게 콘텐츠 논쟁처럼 보인다.Exa~enwiki, 당신이 분쟁 중인 사용자가 관리자라고 해도, 그들이 기사 내용을 이렇게 편집만 할 때는 문제가 되지 않는다. 당신은 그들과 대화 페이지에서 토론하고 WP의 절차를 따라야 한다.직접 해결할 수 없는 경우 DR.WP:ANI는 기사의 내용에 대한 논쟁보다는 사용자 행동 문제와 정책을 반복적으로 위반하는 사람들을 위한 것이다.만약 그들이 그들 자신의 작품에 참고자료를 추가한다면, WP는 다음과 같이 제기될 수 있다.COI 문제, 그러나 WP:SelfCITE, 그것은 이성적인 범위 내에서 허용된다.그렇더라도 그들의 편집이 백과사전에 해롭다는 것을 보여줘야 할 것이고 WP에 올리는 것이 더 나을 것이다.그렇다면 코인. --조 (대화) 20:35, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
엑사~엔위키, 이 비판 섹션 전체가 원본이 아닌 내용이었으니 삭제했어야 했다.만약 당신이 그 주제에 대한 주류 비판을 대표하는 믿을 만한 출처를 찾을 수 있다면, 그 중요성에 비례하여 이러한 관점을 기사에 포함하는 것이 적절할 것이다.그러나 특별히 비평 섹션에서는, 본인과 다른 사람들이 그 주제에 대해 가지고 있는 비판 목록을 참조하지 않고 작성하는 것은 받아들일 수 없다.리즈 23:19, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 당신은 우리에게 당신이 기사에 꾸밈없는 개인적인 의견을 덧붙였다고 말하려고 여기 오셨군요, 그리고 뭐지요?널 배신한 관리자의 환심을 사라고?바로 해 드릴게요.가이(도움말!) 00:55, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 AGI 협회의 오래된 회원이고, 그 문제에 있어서 다소 유명한 전문가다.반복한다, 이것은 방관자나 비전문가의 의견이 아니다.나는 철학자고 컴퓨터 과학자다. 하지만, 이 사람들과는 달리 나는 수학적인 전문지식과 이런 어리석은 주장들이 만들어지고 있는 문제에 대한 기여를 한다.당신이 하는 말은 단지 전문가 의견에 동의하지 않는다고 말하는 것이지만, 나는 AGI 전문가고 당신은 AGI 전문가가 아니다.이런 종말론적 난센스를 계속 쓰고 AGI 연구자들의 의견을 검열하려고 하는 사람들은 대부분 미신적인 철학자들과 그들로부터 보수를 받고 있는 소수의 전직 AI 연구자들(예: 한때 좁은 AI에 관한 교과서를 공동 집필했던 다소 나이가 많은 스튜어트 러셀처럼)이다.이해충돌이 있다.그들은 이 *사실*을 검열하려고 한다.실제 전문가의 의견에 대해 "부정적인 가식적인 개인적인 의견"을 쓴다면, 나는 당신을 불러내려고 한다.너의 애완동물 관리자 중 한 명이 내가 추가한 모든 콘텐츠를 또 파괴하고 제거했다.나는 이것을 다시 포맷으로 편집하려고 한다.나는 당신의 관리자가 덜 잘못되고, 누가 편향되어 있으며, 누가 미국을 검열하려고 끊임없이 노력하는 사람들 중 하나인지, 그들이 진짜 사이비 과학자인 것처럼 보이게 하는 비판을 파괴하고 파괴하도록 내버려두지 않을 것이다.나나 AGI Society가 결국 그를 미국에서 고소해야 할지도 모르기 때문에 나는 또한 Silent라고 불리는 이 애완동물 관리자의 실명을 요구할 것이다.나는 과학자들의 의견에 대한 노골적인 검열에 대해 법적 조치를 강구할 것이다.이 사람이 엘리에저 유드코프스키로 알려진 사이비 과학자인가?그는 가식적인 헛소리들을 더해서 덜 틀리게 만들고, MIRI와 유드코프스키가 중요해 보였다.위키피디아의 기록이 결코 사이언톨로지처럼 미신을 믿는 사이언톨로지가 세계를 구한다고 주장하며 인터넷에서 기부를 요청하고 있을 때 그들 자신을 의미 있게 보이게 하는 것을 당신이 이해하는지 나는 잘 모르겠다.그들이 하고 있는 모든 것이 과학적인 의미가 전혀 없는 미신적인 헛소리를 출판하는 것이다.내 이름은 에레이 오즈쿠랄이야. 여기서 내 논문 몇 편을 읽어봐: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=r_-Vi64AAAAJ&hl=tr 그리고 내가 무례한 개인적인 의견을 쓰고 있다고 말하는 것은 그만둬.나는 나의 편집에 대한 너의 임의적인 의견을 명예훼손과 명예훼손으로 간주한다.나는 전문가고, 유드코프스키는 그렇지 않다.그는 AGI 회의에서 회의 조직원들과의 다년간의 친분을 이용하여 어리석은 논문을 발표했다.그리고 그들은 지금처럼 사회적 공학의 전술을 이용해 비판을 억제해 왔다.나는 많은 정보원을 추가했다.나는 나 자신의 논문 중 하나를 참고자료로 포함시켰다(그들의 허튼소리를 패러디하고 그들의 '문제'를 얼마나 쉽게 풀 수 있는지를 보여주는 대중과학계정, 휴머니티+ 잡지와 arxiv에 게재되어 그것을 읽고 이해하려고 노력한다).그 한 가지 참조에 동의하지 않는 경우, 삭제할 수 있다.그러나 너는 나의 비판을 파괴할 수 없다.넌 그럴 권리가 없어!그것은 "원래 연구"도 아니고 "비사이클론적 내용"도 아니며, "소요하지 않은 강압적인 개인적인 의견"도 아니다.오히려 당신이 비판할 전문지식이 없다는 것은 실제 전문가의 매우 간결한 요약이다.특히 이러한 사이비 과학자인 호킹과 머스크가 자신들의 의견을 앵무새로 만들어 자금을 대기 위해 사회공학을 한 호킹과 머스크가 받은 터무니없는 상을 인용한 비난을 어떻게 감히 없앨 수 있겠는가?머스크와 호킹은 AI 전문가가 아니며 그들이 유명하고/또는 부자라고 해서 비난을 면할 수 있는 것은 아니다.나머지 웹도 검열할 겁니까?당신은 그것을 할 수 없고, AGI Society는 당신이 그것을 하도록 허락하지 않을 것이다.궁금하다면 인터넷상의 많은 기사들은 내가 쓴 것과 같은 비판을 반복한다.그 페이지를 만지지 마십시오.실제 머신러닝 전문가가 쓴 다른 관련 비판 기사를 모두 찾아 추가할 것이다.특히 나의 소중한 동료인 얀 르쿤, 요수아 벤지오, 벤 괴르첼, 그리고 몇몇 다른 유명한 기계 학습 연구원들이 비슷한 비판을 했다.우리 모두가 비전문가라고 생각한다면, 우리는 동의하지 않을 것이고, 결국 법정에서 당신의 비영리적인 모습을 보게 될 것이다.경고하는데, 나는 너의 명예훼손과 명예훼손을 용납하지 않겠다.내가 쓴 모든 비판은 많은 AI/AGI 전문가들에 의해 목소리를 내왔고, 그들은 나의 개인적인 의견이 아니며, 나아가 공포, 언썹을 유도하려는 사이비 과학적이고 사이비 지식적인 노력에 대해 실제로 길게 이야기하고 생각한 연구자들에 의해 검열하려는 정보에 흥미롭고 유익한 많은 연결고리를 주었다.명성과 재물에 대한 일반 대중들 사이의 불확실성과 의심두려움은 이용하기 쉽다.너 같은 비전문가는 속이기 쉽다.그러나, 실제 전문가들이 이 가짜들을 마음껏 비판하도록 하라.그들이 쓴 허튼소리는 건드렸나?아니, 그러니까 우리가 원하는 대로 비판 부분을 편집해 보자.이것은 유사 과학적인 입장과/또는 나쁜 철학/신앙에 대한 불가지론, 즉 창조론에 관한 페이지와 다르지 않다.이와 같이 논란이 되는 과목은 대개 비판 페이지가 있다.나는 단지 토크 페이지에 제안된 부분을 베꼈고, 거기에 빠진 몇 가지 중요한 사항과 참고문헌을 추가했을 뿐이다.이건 완전히 합법적인 편집이야!이것은 많은 숙련된 기계 학습 전문가들의 반대와 함께 *매우* 논란의 여지가 있는 과목이다!나는 당신이 불가지론자/창조론자 철학자 닉 보스트롬과 동조하는 것을 고맙게 여기지 않으며, 나는 당신이 당신의 비전문가의 의견을 주장하도록 허락하지 않을 것이다.제발, 제발 부탁이야. 네 일이나 신경 써. 그리고 내 편집이나 실제 AGI 전문가들을 방해하지 말아줘.나는 가짜 의의를 만들어내려는 이러한 시도에 맞서기 위해 동료 연구원들에게 매우 포괄적인 비판 섹션을 만들기 위해 도움을 요청했다.이 사람들은 몇 년 동안 가식적인 헛소리를 출판해 왔다.우리는 이제서야 그들을 비난하고 있다.AI 연구와 인류의 미래를 위해 사이비 과학과 나쁜 창조주의 철학을 싸우는 것이 얼마나 중요한지 이해하셨는지 궁금하다.고마워! Information icon현재 위키백과에서 토론이 진행 중이다.사용자가 관여했을 수 있는 문제에 대한 관리자 게시판/사건감사합니다.엑사~엔위키 (대화) 04:20, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP:BOOMERang: OP는 비소싱적이고 서투른 헛소스로 밀어붙이는 BLP와 POV를 위반하고 있다.나는 만약 다시 그런 일이 일어난다면 경고하고 나서 긴 블록을 추천한다.보스트롬은 확실히 창조론자가 아니며 그러한 생각을 비난하고 있다.몇몇 견과류들이 그의 철학적 시뮬레이션 주장을 '창조론자'로 표기하기로 결정한 것으로 보이는데, 이는 선진 기술을 '마법'이라고 부르는 것이나 다름없다.내 시대에 허튼소리를 좀 보긴 했지만 이건 그냥 미친 짓이야.비리다타스 (대화) 04:04, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 사실 불가지론이며, 논쟁의 여지가 있는 창조론이다.그는 논문에서 자신이 기독교 신화와 양립할 것 같은 자연주의 신학, 신과 천사의 위계를 언급하고 있다고 분명히 언급하고 있다.나는 네가 너의 좁은 세계관을 벗어나는 것을 너무 좋아하지 않는다는 것을 이해한다.하지만, 여기 그곳에서 무슨 일이 일어났는지에 대한 요약이 있다.그는 불가지론자인데, 과학자들의 비판을 검열하려고 하면, 당신은 불가지론자/창조론자들을 돕고 있다.너는 네가 정확히 누구라고 생각하니, 그 문제에 대한 너의 훈련은 무엇이니?넌 누구야?너는 과학적인 훈련을 받았니?종교철학 전문가세요?"이론"이 무슨 뜻인지 아십니까?만약 여러분이 그 신조가 무엇을 의미하는지 모른다면, 테크노/신세대 기독교 버전을 세우려는 닉 보스트롬을 옹호하는 것으로 그만 두십시오.포스트 휴먼 프로그래머 신이지만, 만약 그것이 우리 전 세계를 포함하는 컴퓨터 시뮬레이션을 디자인한다면, 음, 그것은 사실 인텔리전트 디자인 궤변의 변종이다.창조론이 아닐 때 과학적으로 보이도록 하려는 시도다.포스트휴먼 프로그래머신을 예하와 교체하면 논리구조는 같다.자신의 지식과 전문성을 초월하는 문제에 대해서는 함부로 말하지 마십시오.본명이 어떻게 되십니까?내 이름은 에라이 오즈쿠랄이고, AGI 연구원이며, 과학과 정신 철학에 대한 전문지식을 가진 매우 진지한 분석 철학자야.소셜 미디어에서 나를 찾아주고, 용기가 있으면 말해줘.제발, 나는 너에게 추천한다: 가명 뒤에 숨지 말고 내 이름에 반하는 전혀 관계없는 호민관을 지시해라.나는 내가 무슨 말을 하는지 안다.그리고 과학자로서, 나는 인텔리전트 디자인 헛소리를 부활시키려는 또 다른 시도에 대해 침묵을 지키고 싶지 않다. Information icon현재 위키백과에서 토론이 진행 중이다.사용자가 관여했을 수 있는 문제에 대한 관리자 게시판/사건감사합니다.엑사~엔위키 (대화) 04:27, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

다시 열어서 미안한데 법적 위협사일런스없애려고 엑사~엔위키를 차단했어.이 편집의 중간에는 세 개의 문장이 있다: "나나 AGI Society가 결국 그를 미국에서 고소해야 할지도 모르기 때문에 나는 또한 Silent라고 불리는 이 애완동물 관리자의 REAL NAME을 요구할 것이다.나는 과학자들의 의견에 대한 노골적인 검열에 대해 법적 조치를 강구할 것이다.이 사람이 엘리에저 유드코프스키로 알려진 사이비과학자인가?"정확히 법적인 위협은 아니지만 여전히 소름 끼치는 영향을 미치는 몇 가지 다른 구절들이 있다("...우리는 동의하지 않을 것이다. 그리고 우리는 결국 법정에서 당신의 비영리단체를 보게 될 것이다.경고한다, 나는 너의 명예훼손과 명예훼손을 용납하지 않을 것이다.(예를 들면)엑사~엔위키가 법적 위협을 철회한다면 얼마든지 차단해제하십시오.물론 내가 그들을 막지 말았어야 했다고 생각한다면, 또한 그들을 막아버릴 수 있을 것이다.케임브리지베이날씨, 우카크투크(토크), 수나스투크 10:56, 2016년 2월 5일(UTC)[응답]

나는 그것을 완전히 훑어보았다. 그것은 내 잘못이다.무시했지만 블록이 적당하다.--리키81682(토크) 11시 50분, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

호주산 덤불꽃 에센스

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

호주산 덤불꽃 본질이 최근 삭제됐지만, 삭제 후보로 올랐다는 통보를 받은 적이 없다.통보를 받아야 하지 않았을까? - 사르다카 (대화) 09:01, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

방금 삭제 과정/가이드에 대해 간략히 살펴봤는데 기사 작성자에게 구체적으로 알려달라고 하는 내용을 찾을 수 없다(만약 그게 너라면).나는 몇몇 사람들이 예의상 하는 것을 알지만 나는 그것이 필요하다고 생각하지 않는다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 09:29, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그것은 사실 최근에 나온 것이 아니다; 그것은 AfDed이고 6개월 전에 삭제된 것이다. 만약 당신이 그것을 감시목록으로 했다면 당신은 그 기사에 있는 AfD 통지서를 쉽게 알아차렸을 것이다.이론적으로 당신은 WP에서 그것의 사용자 페이지 복사본을 요청할 수 있다.위키 가치가 있는 위키피디아를 만들기 위해 환불해 주지만, 솔직히 위키피디아가 너무 WP이기 때문에 위키피디아가 충분히 눈에 띄지 않을 것이다.프린지-y, 게다가 위키피디아의 표준에 의해 충분히 눈에 띄지 않는다.그러니 내가 너라면 다른 데까지 노력을 쏟을 거야.소프트라벤더 (대화) 09:48, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
아마 아닐 거야, 아니야.특히 그것은 본질적으로 현실에 기반을 둔 편집자들이 전체 개념이 헛소리라고 지적하는 두 문장을 접목시킨 광고였기 때문에 더욱 그렇다.가이 (도움말!) 2016년 2월 5일 11시 15분 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:267.I854.209 - IP 주소로 위장

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

네, 267번 사용자 이름 입니다.IP 주소처럼 위장한 I854.209는 이미 계정 이름에 대한 위반이다.게다가, 사용자들은 오늘 내가 최근에 편집한 내용을 살펴본 결과, 7페이지의 다른 편집본 중 7장을 임의로 돌려서 나를 짜증나게 하려는 명백한 시도였다.유저는 또한 나와 적어도 한 명의 다른 편집자가 게시한 경고를 제거하기 위해 적어도 두 번 자신의 토크 페이지를 비웠다.록키피디아 (토크) 15:14, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

같은 사용자도 내 토크 페이지에 4chan 메시지 보드 .swf 파일에 링크를 남겨두고 진짜 링크로 위장하려고 시도했다.록키피디아 (토크) 15:16, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

NOTHERE 블록을 인수하십시오.케이티talk 15:30, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

트롤이 내 편집 내용을 되돌리는 중

86.187.163.250은 나에게 복수하는 트롤의 최신 IP이다.에이크코렐 (대화) 17:27, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 IP 사용자에게 이 사실을 그들의 대화 페이지에 알렸다.RickinBaltimore (대화) 17:30, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
시간을 낭비하지 마라.사용자가 통신하지 않는다.그들은 금지될 때까지 이것을 하고, 새로운 IP로 돌아온다.대신, 그들의 편집 내용을 모두 되돌려서 나를 도와줘.난 정말 도움이 필요해.에이크코렐 (대화) 17:36, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

이 IP를 차단하여 편집을 중단했다.IP만 편집하는 것이 단일 사용자를 되돌리는 것이라면, 그들은 여기서 새로운 것이 아니며 IP를 사용하여 싸우는 블록을 편집하지 않는다.만약 같은 일이 일어난다면, 너는 내 토크 페이지에 메모를 남길 수 있다.HighInBC 17:56, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 86.187.162.202로 돌아왔다.누군가 피해 기사를 주시하고 레인지 블록을 이런 식으로 던질 수 있을지도 모른다.DVdmScrapIron을 ping할 것이다.IV는 그들이 알든 모르든 그 사건에 연루된 이후부터입니다.드레이미스(토크) 19:08, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
    그렇다, 그 모든 기여는 이미 되돌렸다.그리고 그들은 모두 나의 감시자 명단에 있다.스크래퍼아이언IV 19:11, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

이번에도 86.187.165.250으로 돌아왔다.스크래프아이언IV 21:43, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

레인지블록(86.187.160.0/21)을 며칠 동안 넣었다.Fut.Perf. 22:05, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 레인지 블록을 가진 더 나은 누군가가 여기서 도울 수 있어서 기쁘다.HighInBC 22:29, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
레인지블록과 페이지가 지켜줘서 고마워, 모두.불행하게도, 86.187.171.62인 이것은 다시 미끄러져 들어갔다.블레이드 & 소울만이 영향을 미쳤는데, 그것은 유일하게 페이지 보호를 받지 못했기 때문이다.스크래퍼아이언IV 15:56, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자별 괴롭힘:Rpo.castro

Rpo.castro는 나의 청소 과정을 되돌리면서 나의 토크 페이지에 나를 괴롭히고 있다. 는 S.C. Braga에서 분쟁이 있은 후, 그가 그것을 해서는 안 된다는 것을 알고 있다.그가 나를 헐뜯는 것은 이번이 처음이 아니다.내가 신고한 후 그는 여러 계정을 사용하다가 차단되었다(그 일로 신고했다).그는 또한 한번은 그가 S.L. 벤피카를 파괴하는 것을 꺼리지 않을 것이라고 썼다.SLBedit (대화) 20:41, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

우선 여기서 확인해 보는 게 좋을 것 같아.이것은 나를 괴롭히는 그것의 증거들 중 하나인데, 그것은 내게는 이성이 없었다.Rpo.castro (대화) 21:07, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답하라]
너는 내 강연에 공지를 하지 않았다.SLBedit (대화) 21:20, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
그건 몇 달 전 일이고, 네 행동을 용서할 수 없어.그의 토크 페이지에서는 아무것도 되돌리지 말아야 한다.142.105.159.60 (대화) 21:28, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
그 논의를 애초에 여기까지 가져온 것은 내가 아니었다.방금 SLBedit 첫 번째 편집에서 링크를 복사했어.Rpo.castro (대화) 19:44, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)

[답글]
Rpo.castro편집은 공공 기물 파손이 아니다.그는 당신의 입국을 허가하지 않았다.나에게 이것은 어느 쪽도 깨끗한 손을 가지고 있지 않은 편집 전쟁처럼 보인다.SLBedit는 전쟁과 파괴 행위를 편집하고 있으며, SLBedit 역시 페이지에서 전쟁을 편집하는 것처럼 보이며, WP는 다음과 같이 주장하고 있다."런너업"이라는 용어를 사용하지 않는 이유로서 발바닥을 내겐 지역적인 합의처럼 보인다.
그는 "여기서는 리그 준우승 같은 것은 없다"는 주장과 함께 이곳에서 내용물을 제거하기 시작했다.그리고 나서 나는 되돌아가서, [1]과 상의해서 확인해 보라고 권했다.그는 아무 이유 없이 그냥 되돌아갔다.이건 공공 기물 파손이 아니야?적어도 편집은 지장을 초래한다.

그의 공적으로, SLBedit는 WP와 "runner up" 상태를 논의한 것으로 보인다.여기서 FOOTY, 그리고 그것은 과거에 몇 번 그 주제가 올라온 것처럼 보인다.페이지에 대한 합의가 이루어질 수 있도록 페이지를 잠그는 것을 제안한다. 코슈볼론 22:06, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

그는 단지 WP에서 논의하기 시작했다.FOOTY, 그가 역전을 한 지 하루 만에.어떤 대화 페이지에서도 먼저 논의되지 않음.그 문제는 수없이 논의되었다.모두 일치된 의견이다.한쪽이 지치고 다른 쪽이 이길 때까지 끝없는 합리적인 재개장 시간?Rpo.castro (대화) 19:44, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 Rpo.castro에 의한 괴롭힘/파괴적인 편집을 토크 페이지에 보고했다.SLBedit (대화) 22:46, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

UAE 트롤이 다시 돌아왔고, 새로운 범위 블록과 페이지 단백질이 필요했다.

아랍에미리트(UAE)에서 역동적인 IP로 운영되며 나와 다른 사용자 모두를 반복적으로 공략하는 트롤이 다시 돌아왔다.광범위한 범위 블록으로 이어지는 이전의 논의는 11월 ANI 토론ANI 토론을 참조하십시오.같은 트레이드 마크들, 다른 UAE IP를 사용하고 편집하고, 나를 트롤이라고 부르는 것.[2], [3], [4], [5].11월과 1월 모두 보았듯이, 유일하게 효과가 있는 것은 이 트롤이 목표로 하는 기사와 그가 사용하는 범위의 범위 블록의 반보호를 하는 경향이 있다.@Dianna:, 이번에 그가 선호하는 범위는 5.107인 것 같다.XXX. 파키스탄의 펀자브도 반보호를 해줄 수 있다면 좋을 텐데.트롤은 기사에 이미 존재하는 부분을 복제하고, 출처를 심하게 잘못 알려주고, 태그를 엉망으로 만들었는데, 그 모든 것이 꽤 "표준적인" 파괴 행위였다.제피즈 (토크) 2016년 1월 30일 19:10 (UTC)[응답]

제피즈, 이 편집자를 위해 SPI가 만들어졌나?그들이 어떤 IP를 가장 많이 사용했는지 잘 몰라서 그들의 아카이브를 검색할 수가 없어.관련 IP 번호를 추적하는 페이지가 어딘가에 있어야 한다.리즈 20:46, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 5.107.13.237, 5.107.7.39를 막았다.(범위가 너무 크고 막기에 바쁜 것 같았다.)이러한 IP가 사용자 대화를 편집한 방법:제루아18호, 경고를 없애고 너를 공격하는 제피즈, 흥미롭다.[6] WP당 게루아18을 차단할 생각이다.특히 DOK, 어차피 파괴적인 걸 생각하면 더욱 그렇다.모두 같은 사람일까, 제피즈?비쇼넨 토크 21:01, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[답답하다]
비쇼넨, 게루아18은 아닌 것 같아.내 인상은 게루아18이 펀자브 지역에 관심을 가진 새롭고 드물게 사용하는 사용자라는 것이다.아마도 약간의 POV를 가지고 있지만, 다른 문제는 없다.UAE의 IP는 더 전형적인 트롤이다.그(대개 트롤은 남성이다)는 기독교(공격하기 위해)나 이슬람(대단하다고 주장하기 위해)과 관련된 기사를 표적으로 삼는 경향이 있지만, 이미 11월에 몇몇 사용자들은 이것이 어떤 진정한 무슬림 신념이 아니라 트롤에게 더 행해진 것처럼 보인다고 지적했다.그것은 진정으로 "기독교성"을 싫어하는 사람이 될 도 있지만, 그것은 이슬람교도들에게 나쁜 평판을 내리려는 트롤일 수도 있다.데카우사 ([7]), 나 ([8])와 다른 사람들에 대한 아주 반복적인 공격은 트롤을 더 잘 나타내는데, 아마도 과거에 우리가 대화했던 차단된 사용자일 것이다.만약 우리가 일시적인 반단백질이나 IP블록 이상의 것을 할 수 있다면 당연히 좋을 것이다.제피즈 (대화) 21:29, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워그래, 정말 좋겠지만, 위키피디아는 트롤을 막기 위해 만들어지지 않았어.그것은 순하게 표현하고 있다.나는 @Dianna: 한번 봐봐, 그녀는 범위도 좋고 비슷해.비쇼넨탈크 21:34, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[답답하다]
ping을 받았을 때 잠깐 살펴봤지만, 16시 9분 이후 파키스탄 펀자브에서 활동이 없었기 때문에, 나는 그 문제를 그렇게 긴급하게 보지 않았다(그리고 그는 이미 이 범위를 떠났을 가능성이 높다).사거리는 5.107.0.0/17로 바쁜데, 최근 10일간 편집이 80건으로 대부분 이 사람이 편집한 것이 아니다.그러나 나는 이것이 Talk에서 사용자들을 괴롭혔던 것과 같은 범위라고 본다.어제 미아 칼리파.우리는 실제로 임시 반단백과 IP블록 이외의 무기는 가지고 있지 않다.다이애나 🍁 (대화) 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC) 22:00[응답]
  • 리즈, 비쇼넨, 다이애나 코멘트.나는 원래 양말장수가 누구인지 몰랐지만, Diannaa가 위에서 말한 것을 보면 거의 WP가 되었다.DOKXtremedood이다.UAE의 트롤에 대해 우리가 아는 건?그가 미아 칼리파, 펀자브 관련 기사, 기독교 관련 기사, 이슬람 관련 기사 등에서 이용자들을 괴롭히고 있다는 사실은 트롤에 대한 이전 ANI 토론에서 볼 수 있다.Xtremedood에 대해 아는 것은?그가 미아 칼리파[10], [11], 펀자브[12], [13], 기독교[14], [15], 이슬람 [16], [17]에 관심이 있는 능동적인 꼭두각시 대가라는 것.우리는 UAE 트롤이 나를 쫓아간다는 것을 알고 있고, 나는 이슬람에 대한 Xtremedood에 동의하지 않는다.Diannaa는 우리에게 트롤이 Jobas와 Jobas가 Mia Khalifa 다음으로 Xtremedood에 동의하지 않은 후에 간다고 말했다.그래서 우리는 미아 칼리파, 펀자브, 기독교, 이슬람에 관심을 갖고 조바스와 나와 분쟁을 벌이는 양말장수 Xtremedood를 가지고 있으며, 우리는 미아 칼리파, 펀자브, 기독교, 이슬람과 조바스와 나와 분쟁을 벌이는 활발한 IP 트롤을 가지고 있다.나는 WP가 아니라고 생각한다.DOK는 그것보다 더 귀여운 것을 얻는다.제피즈 (대화) 22:41, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
UAE의 IP는 아랍어 위키백과와 위키미디어 공용어로 편집하고 계정(여기서처럼 Anti Christian 파일을 업로드하곤 했다)을 가지고 있었다.사용자 제피즈의 말대로 그는 기독교(그것을 공격하기 위해)나 이슬람(그것이 위대하다고 주장하기 위해)과 관련된 기사들을 표적으로 삼는 경향이 있다.그는 기독교 관련 기사를 아랍어 위키피디아(모독, 허위사실 강요, 기독교인에 적대적인 댓글)에서 표적으로 삼곤 했는데, 기독교 기사 파괴로 차단되고 53명 이상의 양말 탐지자를 두었던 그는 아랍어 위키피디아에서 그를 비난한 후 우리의 개인 토크 페이지를 표적으로 삼기 시작했다.(그의 UAE IP로부터) - 이것은 2014년이었다.아랍어 위키백과에서 UAE IP 통행료를 추적해봤었죠.
그는 또한 반달림과 양말 인형 때문에 그를 차단한 것에 대해 편집하고 있었다. 우리가 아랍어 위키피디아에서 발견한 바로는 반달림과 양말 인형이라고 불리던 것이 UAE IP와 관련이 있다.
나는 이 IP와 사용자의 관계에 대해 불확실함을 느낀다:Xtremedood, 그의 갑작스런 출현과 사용자들에 대한 그의 강력한 방어에 대해:Xtremedood, 내가 사용자:Xtremedood와 Mia Kahlifa artille에서 그와 의견이 다른 후 사용자:Capitals00(최근 사용자:Xtremedood와 문제가 있는 사람)이 Sockpuppuppet을 가지고 있는데, 이는 사용자:Xtremedood가 한 과 같은 비난이다.이 IP가 그런 강한 사용자 방식으로 방어하는 것은 이상한 일이라고 생각한다:Xtremedood와 사용자 문제를 겪은 후 나를 괴롭힌다.--Jobas (토크) 23:04, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답]

지난 몇 달간 UAE 트롤의 IP 목록

@Liz, Bishonen, Diannaa, Jobas, Bb23, Ponyo, Cliftonian, Harrias, Elockid, Drmies, DeCausa, 나는 당신이 지난 몇 달 동안 이 문제에 관여했다고 핑핑한다.리즈, 나는 SPIs를 잘 못하지만 Xtremedood가 지난 9개월 동안 위키피디아를 괴롭히는데 사용한 IPs 목록을 정리했어.분명히 다른 사람들도 있겠지만, 이것들은 모두 명백한 것들이야.디안나의 포스트 이후, 나는 누구도 이 모든 트롤 IP 뒤에 있는 꼭두각시 주인인 Xtremedood를 의심하지 않는다고 생각한다.조바스는 이미 우리에게 Xtremedood의 아랍어 위키백과에서 비슷한 행동에 대해 말해주었다.그러면 우리는 미아 칼리파, 펀자브, 기독교(모욕하기 위해), 이슬람(예외하기 위해)에 대한 트롤과 엑스트레메두드의 공동 관심사를 갖게 된다.너무 무작위적이어서 그 조합은 우연이 될 수 없다.만약 추가적인 증거가 여전히 필요했다면, 이러한 IP 트롤들은 특히 데카우사, 조바스 그리고 나(그리고 아마도 내가 모르는 다른 사람들)를 표적으로 삼았다. 그리고 만약 Xtremedood와 트롤 IP들 사이의 공유 관심사가 충분하지 않다면, Xtremedood는 아마도 트롤의 모든 주요 "피해자"와 경합한 유일한 사용자일 것이다.IP는 기사뿐만 아니라 우리의 토크 페이지에도 있다.여기 트롤 IP의 비배출 목록이 있는데, 누군가 이 문제를 진전시킬 수 있기를 바란다.

IP 목록
  • 103.10.199.149
  • 103.9.77.106
  • 104.236.132.30
  • 129.232.129.157
  • 153.207.109.188
  • 176.204.171.201
  • 176.204.179.35
  • 176.204.181.45
  • 176.204.186.17
  • 176.204.25.226
  • 176.204.27.80
  • 176.204.38.78
  • 176.204.42.122
  • 176.204.44.189
  • 176.204.45.69
  • 176.204.48.40
  • 176.204.60.56
  • 176.204.60.82
  • 178.159.10.78
  • 178.73.210.178
  • 185.65.206.157
  • 189.196.129.102
  • 192.71.213.26
  • 2.48.131.211
  • 2.48.32.105
  • 2.48.45.231
  • 2.48.52.205
  • 2.48.58.235
  • 200.122.128.152
  • 200.73.20.100
  • 200.80.48.34
  • 206.191.148.66
  • 2606:2E00:0:50:EC4:7AFF:FE55:69DE
  • 2A00:1D70:ED15:151:236:23:165:1
  • 2A03:F80:44:37:235:55:44:1
  • 2A03:F80:972:193:182:144:161:1
  • 2A03:F80:972:193:182:144:75:1
  • 31.218.179.2
  • 31.218.181.117
  • 31.219.124.159
  • 31.219.97.154
  • 45.56.155.8
  • 5.107.112.47
  • 5.107.13.237
  • 5.107.7.39
  • 5.107.72.200
  • 69.65.15.114
  • 77.247.180.147
  • 85.9.20.155
  • 86.96.39.39
  • 91.233.116.79
  • 94.58.137.75
  • 95.153.32.3
  • 92.96.139.88

제피즈 (토크) 2016년 1월 31일 01:11 (UTC)[응답]

아랍어 위키백과의 경험을 통해 이 IP는 수백 개의 IP와 계정의 IP를 만들어 낸다.내 생각에, 그를 막는 해결책은 소용없기 때문에, 이 고통을 막을 방법이 있을까?그는 돌아와서 같은 반달리즘을 계속할 것이다.--조바스 (토크) 01:26, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
@제피즈:그냥 지나가는 말이 아니야.나는 이 IP가 아랍어 레반타인 방언(특정 시리아어)에서 아랍어로 욕하고 있다는 것을 깨달았고, 우리가 아랍어 위키피디아(사투리를 통해)에서 알고 있는 것을 통해 IP를 퇴위시키거나 아랍어 위키피디아에서 비극적인 기독교 기사를 쓰던 차단된 자들이 시리아어 출신이지만, 그는 아랍에미리트에서 살고 있다.나는 현재 이곳의 UAE IP와 아랍어 위키피디아에서 편집하고 적대적인 아이디어스토 기독교를 가지고 있으며, 언제나 이러한 기독교적 기사를 방해하고 그와 사이가 좋지 않거나 의견이 맞지 않는 이용자들을 괴롭혔던 UAE IP와 결정적으로 연결시킬 확신이 없다.--Jobas (talk) 2016년 1월 31일, 2016년 1월 31일(UTC)[응답]
@Jobas: 편집필터를 만들 수 있는 것이 있을까?토론-이중(t/c) 18:23, 2016년 1월 31일(UTC)[응답]
물론 아랍어 위키백과의 경험을 통해 UAE IP가 사용자 제피즈를 병들게 욕하고 있었던 것은 확실하다. 따라서 @Discuss-Dubious: 우리는 여기서 필터를 편집할 수 있다.--Jobas (토크) 18:30, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 좋은 조건들이 있어.이것을 가지고 메일링 리스트를 이메일로 보내세요.그가 좋아하는 기사 목록도 같이 보내야 할 것 같아.@Jobas : 토론-이중(t/c) 19:26, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

이제 WP에서 Warring 및 Trolling 편집:SPI

당신의 정보를 위해, 는 여기에 SPI를 신청했다. UAE 트롤은 이제 일반적인 편집 전쟁과 개인적인 모욕으로 SPI로 넘어갔다[18], [19], [20], [21].오히려 말 그대로 UAE 트롤 IP는 일주일 전 Xtremedood를 차단할 때 Bb23이 사용한 문구를 거의 그대로 반복했다[22].제피즈 (토크) 16:24, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

편집 필터는 개인적인 모욕을 줄이는 데 매우 효과적일 수 있다.현재, SPI는 끈질긴 트롤에 대해 어떤 조치가 취해질지 결정하는 동안 그것을 보류한 CUEers의 손에 달려 있다.리즈 01:38, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 편집자가 뭔가를 꾸미고 있는 것 같아조바스와 제피즈...제피즈와 조바스...제비스와 조파즈...거기엔 뭔가가 있어다들 모르겠니?드레이미스 (토크) 04:43, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
빈정거림이 항상 잘 번역되는 것은 아니다. - 부시 레인저 14:24, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
비록 이 양말이 XD나 G18과 관련이 없다고 해도, 그들은 여전히 70마리오리들이며, 아마도 그는 Xtremedood에 동의할 것이다.토론-이중(t/c) 16:42, 2016년 2월 2일(UTC)[응답]

Xtremedood의 코멘트

안녕하십니까, 여기서 많이 언급되었으므로 위에서 언급한 IP와는 전혀 무관하다는 말씀을 드리고자 한다.나는 IP가 둘 다 내 입장에 적대적일 뿐 아니라 겉으로 보기에 지지하는 것처럼 보인다는 것에 스토킹 당해왔다.나는 그런 전술을 지지하지 않고 이 트롤들과 아무 관계도 없다.나는 이 계정을 운영하고 있는 사람들에게 나를 따르는 것을 멈추라고 요청하고 그들이 더 많은 시민적 매너와 행동을 채택할 것을 요청한다.나는 제피즈가 제기한 비난은 근거가 없다고 생각하며 제피즈, 조바스, 그리고 내가 현재 진행중인 분쟁을 언급해야 한다. Talk:이슬람교에서 기독교로 개종한 사람들 목록그래서 나는 이것이 나처럼 다른 사람들과의 의견 차이 없이 그들이 원하는 것을 기사에 올릴 수 있도록 나를 검열하려는 시도가 아니기를 바란다.Xtremedud (대화) 19:32, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

아마도 문제는 ENT 70이 우연히 당신의 의견에 동의한다는 것이다.이것들은 그의 메가폰 덕 양말이다.
이런 양말 퍼피에 LTA를 받는데 얼마나 걸리니?토론-이중(t/c) 20:28, 2016년 2월 3일(UTC)[응답]

관리자가 의도적으로 의미를 변경하기 위해 내 게시물을 편집함

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 User:JzG가 내 게시물을 편집한 것에 대해 경고해 줄 것을 요청한다.[23] jpz는 나의 뜻을 의도적으로 다른 독자들에게 잘못 전하기 위해 분명히 편집했다.나는 JzG에게 편집을 되돌리라고 정중히 요청했지만, 그는 이후 이것을 거절했다[24].

JZG의 편집은 내 글의 전체 의미를 의도적으로 바꿔놓는다.이는 행동 지침 WP를 위반하는 것이다.상태를 나타내는 TPG아래에 설명된 특정 예외를 제외하고 기본 규칙은 다른 편집자의 권한 없이 다른 편집자의 주석을 편집하거나 삭제하지 않는 것이다.

또한 내 편집은 ArbCom 사례에서 제출된 표를 보여주기 위한 것이었으므로 JzG가 ArbCom에서 발행한 DS를 위반했을 가능성이 있다는 점을 지적한다. 이 중단 편집이 여기서가 아닌 AE에서 제기되어야 하는지에 대한 관리자의 조언을 환영한다.

내가 토크 페이지에 소개한 표의 "전후"를 보여줌으로써 의도적으로 의도한 내 게시물의 의미 변화를 보여주는 것이 아마도 가장 쉬울 것이다.

가 편집하기 전에

잠재적으로 실행 가능한 동작 제안된 해결책
편집자
불침투성 워링 편집 팀 편집 태그 지정 DR 오용 포럼 쇼핑 배틀그라운드 동작
닥터크리시 (나) - Green tickY - - - - 주제 금지
킹오파세스43 - Green tickY Green tickY - - Green tickY 제안되지 않음
알렉스브렌 - Green tickY Green tickY - - - 제안되지 않음
요볼 - Green tickY Green tickY - - Green tickY 제안되지 않음


Jzg 편집 후 내 편집

잠재적으로 실행 가능한 동작 제안된 해결책
편집자
불침투성 워링 편집 팀 편집 태그 지정 DR 오용 포럼 쇼핑 배틀그라운드 동작
닥터크리시 (나) Green tickY Green tickY Green tickY Green tickY Green tickY Green tickY 주제 금지 (2)
킹오파세스43 - Green tickY Green tickY - - Green tickY 제안되지 않음
알렉스브렌 - Green tickY Green tickY - - - 제안되지 않음
요볼 - Green tickY Green tickY - - Green tickY 제안되지 않음

닥터크리시 00:55, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

미안, 그래, 네가 WP에서 재범이라는 걸 보여주기 위해 그 칼럼들을 추가했어야 했어.IDHT, Wikistalking, 건방진 편집, POV 푸싱, 콘텐츠 분쟁에서 우위를 차지하기 위한 남용 과정, WP 취하 거부:스틱과 물론 GMO 사건이 시작되기 전에는 이미 주제 금지령이 내려져 있었다.하지만 전반적으로, 나는 사실 별로 신경 쓰지 않아.위키피디아의 모든 문제를 단순히 시티즌디움으로 바꿔서 어떻게 고쳐나갈 것인가에 대한 긴 에세이를 다시 쓰고, 당신을 전문가로 임명하는 것은 어떨까?가이(도움말!) 01:01, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

JZG는 미개한 발언을 하고 있다.[25][26] JzG는 bull****라고 하는 위키프로젝트 템플릿을 추가했다.[27][28] 사용자:JzG/Wiki프로젝트 셀프 서비스 헛소리 참조.QuackGuru (대화) 01:02, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

위키백과는 검열되지 않으므로 별표를 사용할 필요가 없다.다음과 같은 내용이었다.
위키프로젝트 에세이
WikiProject icon이 페이지는 위키프로젝트 자기 서비스적 허튼소리의 범위 안에 있는데, 위키피디아 에세이를 가장하여 의욕적인 추리, 특별한 애원, 그리고 다른 잘못된 허튼소리를 제시함으로써 위키피디아의 목적을 해체하고 붕괴시키기 위한 공동의 노력이다.참여하려면 토론에 참여할 수 있는 프로젝트 페이지를 방문하십시오.이기적인 헛소리 목록을 보려면 언제든지 드라마 게시판을 방문하십시오.
??? 이 기사는 아직 그 프로젝트의 영향 규모에 대한 평가를 받지 못했다.
이것은 적어도 의도적으로 유머러스하다는 점에서 많은 수의 (지금은 삭제된) 리디렉션 등을 만들어 내는 당신의 그 흉악한 에세이를 프로젝트 공간으로 옮기는 것에 비해 엄청난 이점을 가지고 있다.너의 에세이는 가장 암울한 의미에서만 재미있다.가이(도움말!) 01:10, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 또한 새로운 에세이에 유머 태그를 추가했다.쿡구루 (대화) 01:19, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
당연하지너무 재밌어.전문 편집인이 있어야 한다고 제안하고, 공감대 대신 표를 사용해야 한다고 제안하는 것?웃기다!가이(도움말!) 01:23, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
JzG가 태그를 추가한 유일한 이유는 당신의 에세이가 하나의 큰 농담이기 때문이다!, 내가 당신에게 가서 바보같은 에세이를 쓰는 대신에 생산적인 일을 하라고 제안해도 될까....Davey2010Talk 01:26, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
JZG, 앞으로 좀 더 예의 바르게 행동할래?위키백과 참조:reform_of_위키백과#무절제.쿡구루 (대화) 01:30, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
QuackGuruAnI에 대한 에세이를 참조하기로 결정했다고 말하지 마십시오.제발 그만해, 네 행동이 지장을 주는 거야.Mrfrobinson (talk) 01:35, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 그 에세이에 근거한 어떤 것도 제안하지 않는다. 그것은 한 쌍의 페티드 딩고의 신장 가치도 없다.가이(도움말!) 01:37, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
에세이에 관한 것이 아니다.그건 네 행동에 관한 거야[29][30][31][32]QuackGuru (대화) 01:38, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
는 그것을 농담이라고 주장하려고 방해하고 있다.이것은 관리자가 행동해야 할 방식이 아니다.나는 Chrissy 박사와 QuackGuru의 불평을 지지한다.비스킷틴 (대화) 01:47, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
넷째에 놓인 정보를 보면, 나는 여기서 동의하고 싶다.다른 사람의 메시지를 편집하는 것은 낙담으로 널리 알려진 행동이다.(공격은 하지 않지만) 반응은 거들먹거리고 싸움터처럼 보인다.JzG, 당신은 장기 편집자 겸 행정가로서 당신이 한 모든 좋은 일을 존중한다.하지만 난 네가 여기서 좀 멀리 갔다고 생각해.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 02:29, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
내 말은, 왜 다른 테이블을 만들지 않았지? 그의 자리를 바꾸는 대신?나는 이 특정한 논쟁에 관여하지 않기 때문에 누가 누구를 확대하는지 모르지만, 이것은 당신 자신의 비교를 함으로써 그렇게 쉽게 피할 수 있었을 것이다.물론 그 요점이 누군가를 적대시하는 것이 아니라면 말이다.케이티talk 03:44, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
정말이야, @Oshwah:나는 그 에세이에서 놀고 있는 국제 레임 페스티벌에 참을성이 없다.그것은 눈뜨기 전의 이별의 촬영이었다.난 나쁜 사람이야, 나도 알아.하지만 FFS.결코 일어나지 않을 모든 종류의 변화를 추진하려는 에세이, 3명의 편집자 중 1명은 기후변화 거부주의자로 보이며, 1명은 별도의 두 가지 주제 금지, 1명은 ArbCom이 제정되었으며, 1명은 블록 로그가 당신의 팔만큼 길고 수많은 편집 제한사항이 있는 편집자인데, 우리는 이 문제를 모두라고 받아들여야 한다.lse. 난 그렇게 생각하지 않아.우리는 WP에 근거한 새로운 정책이 필요하다.StFUALREADY.합의에 주의를 기울이는 것을 거부하는 은 예의에 어긋나는 일이 아니다.가이 (도움말!) 2016년 2월 5일 11시 24분 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 JzG가 Dr.Chrissy의 편집을 바꿀 권리가 없다는 것에 동의한다. 그리고 그 에세이에 대한 유머를 시도함으로써 얻는 것이 거의 없었다.그 에세이는 MFD로 옮겨졌고 나는 그것을 사용자화해서 JZG가 그것을 내버려두겠다고 약속한다면, 나는 우리 나머지는 넘어갈 수 있다고 생각한다.그 에세이는 모든 사람들에게 논란의 메뚜기였다. -- 리키81682 (토크) 04:20, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이미 그것을 풀었었다.가이(도움말!) 08:04, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
우리 둘 다 끝이 아닐 거라는 걸 잘 알잖아일단 우리가 그 문제를 해결한 것 같다. -- 리키81682 (대화) 08:37, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 강박적으로 거절당한 POV-pusers들이 결코 WP를 떨어뜨리지 않을 위험이 있다는 것을 제안하는 것인가?위키피디아의 나머지 부분에 있어서 에세이 전체가 다르게 합리적이라는 것이 얼마나 분명한지 스틱?집어치워요.그리고 당신의 돈은 아마도 안전할 것이다.가이 (도움말!) 2016년 2월 5일 11시 17분 (UTC)[응답]
  • 닥터크리시가 애당초 식탁을 올리지 않는 것이 최선이었을 것이다.또는 WP에 의해 삭제되었어야 하는 사항:TPO는 GMO에서 금지되어 있고 단지 그것과 관련된 블록에서 나오는 주제다.그들은 어떤 식으로든 사건을 재조사하고 특정한 편집자를 추구함으로써 그들을 금지시킨 GMO 주제에서 싸움터 행동을 추구해서는 안 된다.그들은 WP당 적절한 포럼에서 그들 자신의 금지에 대해 자유롭게 토론할 수 있다.BANEX는 그러나 이런 식으로 다른 편집자들이 이 주제에 대해 토론하는 것은 이 최근의 GMO에 기반한 스레드에 그들이 관여하는 것과 금지되지 않았음에도 불구하고 부적절한 토크 페이지 사용보다 더 나쁜 또 다른 위반이다.Ricky81682는 이 시점에서 이 모든 것을 염두에 두고 이것을 그만두는 것이 최선이라는 단점을 가지고 있다.Kingofaces43 (대화) 05:47, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 리키81682가 공동체를 오도하기 위해 JZG의 편집 변경에 대한 주제를 우리가 포기해야 한다는 것을 의미했다고 생각하지 않는다. 나는 그가 에세이에 대한 토론을 중단한다는 것을 의미한다고 생각한다.닥터크리시 13:02, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 JzG가 테이블로 정정하는 것에 특별한 문제가 있다고 보지 않는다.사람들은 어떤 체크 표시가 닥터크리시에게 적용되지 않을 것이라고 생각하는가?Kww(대화) 13:26, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 JzG의 행동에 대한 지지를 보고 조금 놀랐다.WP:TPO는 "자신의 토크 페이지에서도 의미를 바꾸기 위해 다른 사람의 코멘트를 편집하거나 이동하지 말라"고 명시하고 있다(강조 내용은 가이드라인에 있다).의미가 변경되었다는 증거가 필요한 경우, 표 위에 ArbCom 케이스의 데이터를 표시했다는 점에 유의하십시오.마지막 열(제안된 해결책)에 "2가지 주제 금지"를 배치함으로써 ArbCom을 잘못 표현함 - 제안된 해결책은 단지 1가지 주제 금지였습니다.또 다른 예로 JzG의 편집은 내가 미개하다는 증거가 제시되었다는 것을 나타내는 체크 표시를 표에 놓았다.그러한 증거는 ArbCom 사례에서 제시되지 않았다(다른 곳에서도 제시되지 않았다).그러나 여기서 자세히 진퇴양난은 하지 말자.만약 사람들이 JzG의 편집을 지지한다면, 그들은 행동 지침의 무시(WP:TPG)를 지지하고 있다.닥터크리시(talk) 13:50, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 그의 사실을 잘못 전달하고 다른 편집자들을 저격할 수 있는 거군 그리고 그것이 문제없이 진행되나?미안해, 아니야.우리의 토크 페이지 지침은 당신이 ArbCom의 허가를 받았음에도 불구하고 그들은 그렇지 않은 후에 당신 자신을 악의에 찬 POV-pusers라고 표현할 수 있는 권리를 주지 않는다.당신의 가장 현명한 방법은 단순히 전체를 제거하고 떠나는 것이다.가이(도움말!) 16:20, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
원래 이 불만 사항은 다음과 같은 코멘트로 종결되었다.이것은 빠르게 말다툼으로 전환되고 있다. JzG는 다른 사람의 내용을 편집하는 것보다 자신의 주장을 펴는 더 좋은 방법이 있다는 것을 상기시킨다. JZG는 그들이 그 페이지를 보지 않았다고 말했다. 나는 이것이 그들이 다시 그것을 하지 않을 것이라는 것을 의미한다고 추측한다. 닥터크리시는 합의에 직면하는 아이디어들은 상당한 비판에 직면할 것이며, 여러분의 의견을 바꾸지는 말아야 하지만 사람들이 강하게 반대할 때 놀라서는 안 된다는 것을 상기한다.

나는 MfD에 참여했기 때문에 이 문제에 잠재적으로 관여하고 있다. 만약 어떤 관리자나 JzG나 DrChrissy가 이 폐쇄가 너무 관여되어 있다고 생각한다면 나는 그들이 그것을 번복하는 것을 환영한다.분쟁을 연장하는 것 이외에는 아무것도 도움이 되지 않을 것이라는 것이 나의 생각이다.HighInBC 16:38, 2016년 2월 5일(UTC)

재오픈 요청.관련 내용을 공개하고 이 재개를 초대해 준 마무리 관리자에게 감사드린다.그러나 닫기를 실행 취소할 수 없다. 관리자 상태가 필요할 수 있다.행정관이 나를 위해 이 실을 다시 열어 주시겠습니까?닥터크리시(talk) 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC) 18:57 (응답)

나는 이 경주에 개는 없지만, 가이의 행동을 간과해서는 안 된다고 생각하는데, 나는 과거에 가이의 이런 행동을 꽤 많이 보아왔고 이 시점에서 나는 데시소프에 반대하지 않을 것이다.행정관은 그런 식으로 행동해서는 안 된다.조셉 경 19:53, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
하지만 나는 이 문제에 대해 의견이 없다.크리시 원본이 보관되지 않았기 때문에 이것을 복사해서 붙여넣을 필요가 있는지 모르겠다.네가 먼저 요청했으니 관리자가 다시 토론할 수 있을 것 같아?RickinBaltimore (대화) 20:27, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
원래 요청을 다시 열었고 잘라낸 후 붙여넣기 버전을 삭제하겠다.리즈Read! Talk! 20:34, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • OP별 코멘트.나는 ArbCom 사건에서 제시된 증거를 확인해 보았지만 거기서 내가 미개하다는 증거는 제시되지 않았다.표를 변경함으로써, Jzg는 그러한 증거가 제시된 것처럼 보이게 했다.이것은 거짓이다.그는 누워 있다.거짓말은 특히 우리의 WP:Civility 정책에 위배되는 것으로 명시되어 있다.닥터크리시 20:54, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 이제 누군가 WP에 이것을 가져가길 권한다.AE는 지금쯤이면 당신의 주제 금지에 대한 명백한 위반이다.가이(도움말!) 00:04, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 네가 자주 사용하는 기분전환 전술이다.사람들이 당신이 방어할 수 없는 당신에 대해 비난하기 시작하면, 당신은 보통 고소인을 공격함으로써 그들에게서 주의를 돌리게 된다.나는 네가 거짓말을 한다고 고소했다 - 내가 하기 싫어하는 고발이지만, 그것은 필요하다.너 자신을 방어할 생각이니?닥터크리시 00:13, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • jzg는 또 한번 미개한 발언을 했다.JZG는 미개한 발언을 하는 패턴이 있다.관리자가 ArbCom 케이스를 열 것을 권장한다. 그렇지 않으면 이 상황이 계속될 수 있다.쿡구루 (대화) 21:08, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    관련은 없지만 그렇다고 해서 미개한 말은 아니다.그냥 의견일 뿐이야.한눈에 가이의 행동에 아무 이상이 없음을 알 수 있다.아마우리 (대화) 00:23, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    @아마우리 : 직책을 분명히 해 주십시요.가이가 다른 편집자의 글을 편집해 그 의미를 바꾸고 다른 편집자에 대한 거짓말을 하는 것은 아무 문제가 없다고 생각한다는 말인가.닥터크리시 00:32, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    @QG: 그것은 미개한 것이 아니다. 평범한 말이 더 좋다.JZG는 당신이 잘못된 길을 가고 있으며 계속 가면 사이트 금지 조치를 받을 것이라고 지적하며 당신에게 호의를 베푸고 있다.백과사전의 구축과 모든 참여자의 만족을 가능하게 하는 가능한 통치 체계는 없다.Talk에서 당신이 옳을 수 있다.지압은 하지만 너무 심한 말다툼이 있기 때문에 아무도 모를 거야. 그냥 한 달 동안 내버려 둬.조누니크 (대화) 00:35, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 보고서는 현재 몇 가지 문제의 좋은 예이긴 하지만 조치 없이 종결되어야 한다.특히 JzG가 원하면 테이블을 복구해야 한다고 말한 것을 감안할 때, 다른 사람의 테이블을 한 번 수정했다고 해서 아무도 제재를 받지 않을 것이다.일반적으로 커뮤니티는 상당히 많은 차선의 행동을 용인하고 있으며 이와 같은 이슈는 ANI에 적합하지 않다. DrChrissy는 모든 GMO 페이지 등에서 무기한 금지된 주제다(WP:ARBGMO).위키리셔는 이번 발견으로 크리스 박사가 GMO 주제 금지(디프)에 관한 표를 게시할 수 있게 되었다고 주장할 수 있지만, 주제 금지의 목적은 혼란을 막기 위한 것이며, 이는 크리스시 박사가 주제에서 완전히 손을 떼야 한다는 것을 의미한다.조누니크 (대화) 01:07, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자가 노골적인 장난을 만드는 중

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Joseph Steiner (토크 · 기여)

"조세피안 고속도로"에 대해 말도 안 되는 말을 만들어내다니.블록이 필요하다.핑긴(Pinguinn) 2016년 2월 5일(UTC) 20:16[응답]

공공 기물 파손 전용 계정으로 차단됨.--Ymblanter (대화) 20:25, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
일 끝나고 집에 갈 때 쓰는 건데, 그게 내 삶을 더 편하게 해 줘.조셉 경 20:56, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 POV 푸싱

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 콘텐츠 분쟁과 NPOV 문제에 있어서 비교적 새로운 분야라서 여기에 글을 올리기로 결심했다.스날리즈(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)는 소수민족이 어디에서나 어떻게 취급되는가에 중요한 내용을 삭제하고 있으며, 중국 관련 기사에서 중국에 비판적인 정보도 삭제하고 있다.감사합니다.베리타스 (대화) 01:26, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 유사한 주제 영역(대부분 민족적)에서 기사 및 내용의 편집을 보지만, 그렇지 않으면 여기서 조치를 필요로 하는 것으로 나를 감동시키는 것은 보지 않는다.그의 편집 내용은 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기, 그리고 여기 - 모두 편집 요약과 함께 잘 설명되어 있으며, "POV 푸시" 이상의 내용과 출처 관련 분쟁으로 보인다.만약 있다면, 스내리지는 단순히 내용을 삭제하는 이 아니라(내가 본 한두 개의 편집은 삭제하지 않아도 된다 - 수정과 변경만 하면 된다) 수정해야 한다는 것을 상기해야 하며, 의문 사항이 있을 경우 그러한 편집 내용을 설명할 준비가 되어 있어야 한다.Veritas에서 - 이러한 삭제 중 잘못된 것이 있었는가?출처가 제거되는 콘텐츠를 명확하게 지원했는가?요약 요청 편집과 관련하여 어떤 결과가 나왔는가?스날리지와 토론이나 분쟁 해결을 모색해 보셨습니까?나는 기사의 토크 페이지에서는 아무것도 볼 수 없다. (사실, 그는 여기에서 토론하기 시작했다), 그의 토크 페이지에서는 아무것도 볼 수 없다. 단 한 가지 경고, 그리고 ANI가 이 토론에 대해 알아차린다.먼저 사용자와 고민을 상의하지 않고 바로 여기로 온 것 같아.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 2월 6일 02:26 (UTC)[응답]
그렇다, 나는 기여에서 특별히 놀랄만한 어떤 것도 나에게 달려드는 것을 보지 못했다는 것에 동의한다.GABHello! 02:32, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@GeneralizationAreBad, OshwahSnarlyj:빠른 답변에 감사드리며, 처음에는 지운 진술 중 상당수가 특정 집단에 대한 부정적인 댓글이었기 때문에 내 의심을 샀다.나는 내가 너무 성급했을지도 모른다는 것을 깨달았다.앞으로 사용자와의 대화를 어떻게 시작해야 할까?감사합니다.베리타스 (대화) 02:58, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그냥 대화 페이지에 있는 놈들한테만 말 걸면 돼.하지만 새 편집자는 레자 하스매트를 좋아하지 않는 것 같아.. 왜 그런지 모르겠어..아마 누군가 물어봐야 할 것이다.일부 익명의 사용자가 수상자로부터 정보를 삭제하는 데 문제가 있는 이유를 알 수 있다. -- Moxy (토크) 03:01, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그의 토크 페이지는 인베리타스 (토크) 03:03, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]에 약간의 추론을 제공한다.
뜸이 맞다.단지 당신의 우려를 표현하고 그것들에 대한 토론을 구하라.베리타스에서 - 나는 당신이 논쟁/토론을 시작하기 전에 그의 편집 내용을 조사하고 그것에 대해 정당한 우려가 있는지 알아낼 것이다.그는 유사한 영역을 편집하고 유사한 내용("미간을 찌푸리게 하는 정당한 이유")을 삭제하는 것일 수도 있지만, 그의 제거가 올바르고 진실을 말하고 있다면, 좋은 편집은 좋은 편집이라는 것을 기억하라; 토론은 심지어 필요하지 않을 수도 있다.당신 마음대로 하세요.어느 쪽이든, 나는 현재 관리자 주의나 조치가 필요하지 않으며 이 ANI 스레드는 닫힐 수 있다.다른 사람이 하게 놔둘게.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 2월 6일 03:19 (UTC)[응답]
@Oshwah:좋아, 토론 페이지에서 얘기해서 정리했어다음 번에는 편집자에게 나의 우려에 대해 좀 더 직접적으로 말하겠다.도움을 주신 모든 분들께 감사드린다.veritas (대화) 03:24, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
베리타스에서 - 천만에요 :-)궁금한 점이 있거나 도움이 필요한 경우 주저하지 말고 내 토크 페이지에 메시지를 남겨주십시오.기꺼이 돕겠다.기자가 획일적이고 묵시적인 폐막으로 주어진 충고를 추구했으므로, 나는 계속하여 이것을 종결할 것이다 - 그렇게 하는 것은 논란의 여지가 없다고 생각한다;-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 03:27, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
해결됨
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP 변경 정리 및 정보 태그

IP가 2주 동안 차단됨. m.o.p 03:15, 2016년 2월 6일(UTC)

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

저녁 먹으러 친구 만나러 가야 하는데, 자세한 검토를 위해 여기에 보고할 거야.나는 210.10.138.83(대화 · 기여 · WHOIS)에 의한 일부 이상한 청소 및 유지관리 태그의 변경을 발견했고, 지금까지 검토했던 것(반다스 정도)을 되돌리기 시작했다.하지만, 내가 아직 볼 기회가 없었던 수십 개의 추가 변화가 있는 것 같다.누군가 이것들을 확인하고, 적절히 되돌릴 수 있을까?현재로서는, 선의의 변화가 잘못되었다고 가정하지만, 추가 검토 후 약간의 추가 논의가 필요할 수 있다.--- 베어크 (토크 기여) - 01:30, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

직선 템플릿 파괴 행위.그들은 대량 롤백되었다.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 01:58, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
FYI 이 템플릿 작업을 수행한 첫 번째 호주 IP는 아니다.마지막으로 본 지 몇 달이 지났기 때문에 다른 IP가 무엇이었는지 기억이 나지 않는다.그러므로, 이것은 "앞으로 더 많은 것을 경계하라"는 것에 가깝다.마넷D톡 02:09, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자가 계속 편집함.AIV에 보고 중.에버그린피르 (토크) 부탁 {{re} 03:02, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]


위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

토론은 조정되어야 한다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

위키백과_토크에서 토론이 있다.위키프로젝트_Cities#관리자에 의해 검토되어야 하는 코멘트를 요청한다.양쪽 모두 주장을 펼쳤으며, 아마도 아무런 의도도 없는 누군가가 이 문제를 해결하거나 WP:합의를 달성하기 위해 취해야 할 조치를 제안하는 데 도움을 줄 수 있을 것이다.둘러본 것AWhile (대화) 04:16, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

둘러본 것AWhile - 행동 문제로 인해 RFC에서 관리자의 주의가 필요한가?관리자 개입이나 정책 시행이 필요한 문제는 없는 것 같다.잘못 신고한 것 같은데 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)04:29, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
거기엔 아무런 지장이 없는 것 같아.꽤 분명한 의견 일치가 있는 것 같다.하지만 RfC는 보통 한달 동안 운영하지 않는가?어쨌든 폐쇄 요청은 이곳이 아니라 A에 있다.IDegon (대화) 05:59, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 정상적인 RfC이다.그것이 진행되는 방식이 마음에 들지 않을 수도 있다는 사실이 그 사실을 바꾸지는 않는다.RfCs는 최대 30일 동안 실행될 수 있지만 현재 합의는 명확해 보인다.30일 동안 실행되도록 한 다음 권한이 없는 사람에게 닫아 달라고 요청하려면 다음 웹 사이트를 방문하십시오.관리자의 게시판/폐쇄 요청합의가 모호하지 않게 "반대"로 계속 기울어지면, 당신은 언젠가 RfC를 철회하기를 원할 것이다. 위키백과:Requests_for_comment#Ending_RfCs. -- Softlavender (대화) 06:09, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자별 공격 페이지:오인치

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이전에 속력을 낸 기사 네이트 밀러(Reptilian Overlord) 네이트 밀러(Reptoid)의 내용은 볼 수 없지만, 사용자의 제목과 내용에 근거하면:그의 오인시(내가 네이트 밀러를 겨냥한 공격 페이지로서 스피디하게 태그한 것)는 다른 기사들도 공격 페이지였을 것 같다.사용자가 다른 편집이 없기 때문에 사용자 이름은 네이트 밀러를 겨냥한 또 다른 공격인 것으로 보인다.미터 (토크) 2016년 2월 4일 18:42, (UTC)[응답]

FYI, 몇몇 미국의 청소년 문화에서, "단크"는 좋은 것이다.이 사람이 트롤이라는 것은 의심의 여지가 없지만 나는 이것을 공격으로 간주하지는 않을 것이다.그의 오인치는 아마도 트롤로서 외설적일 것이다.(토크)아이데곤 출신 존은 18:49, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)¿¿[응답]
그리고 사용자는 RickinBaltimore (대화) 18:51, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
공정한 논평.개인적으로, 나는 파충류 오버로드와 오그르라고 불리는 것을 고려할 것이다.아마도 네이트 밀러는 다르게 느낄 것이다.미터 (토크) 2016년 2월 4일 18:57 (UTC)[응답]
나도 몰라, 미터.나는 포유류 사슴뿔보다 파충류 과장이 되고 싶다.드레이미스 (토크) 21:04, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 다가오는 2016년 과학 소설 파라다이스 로스트의 리부팅에서 나온 거지요?채닝 테이텀이 도마뱀 사탄으로 출연? --플로켄빔 (대화) 22:20, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자:Bishzilla 알림 --Floquenbeam (대화) 22:28, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[답글]
포유동물이요?제발, 나는 나를 "남자"로 생각하고, 전쟁터 지구에서 존 트라볼타로부터 숨어있는 덤불 속을 헤집고 다니는 것을 더 좋아한다.미터 (토크) 22:32, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
'질라 역시 삭제된 페이지를 읽을 수 없고, 더 이상 관리자도 할 수 없다. (슬픔!그리고 좌절된 호기심!)그러나 "렙틸리안 오버로드"는 분명히 그렇게 칭찬한다.모두 오버레이디 비슈질라. 비슈질라 OARR!! 23:00, 2016년 2월 4일(UTC)에 고개를 숙여주십시오.[답답하다]
하지만 너 굼벵이냐?IDegon 출신 John (토크) 00:45, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
이 실을 닫으려다가 이 질문을 봤어법원은 답변을 기다릴 것이다;-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)01:51, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[답변]
그래, 때가 됐지, 하지만 한동안 내가 가졌던 최고의 웃음소리야.미터 (토크) 07:18, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
Urban Dictionary는 '질라는 "당당함"이라는 것을 명확히 한다.이제 프리 클로즈, 꼬마 오슈와! 비슈질라 OARR!! 17:14, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[답답하다]

나는 단지 관리자들이 어떤 이유에서든 전장 지구에 대해 생각하는 것을 선호하는 편집자를 길고 자세히 살펴야 한다는 것을 지적하고 싶다.제재는 적절할 것이며, 엄중해야 한다.이제 내가 그 희롱을 언급한 결과로 내 머리를 치실로 치장하게 된 것을 양해해줘.MjolnirPants 말해줘 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

JBL의 '위키호킹'

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

JBL의 '위키호킹'

나는 최근에 사회주의의 잃어버린 문학인 조지 왓슨의 책을 읽었다.조지 G. 왓슨, 1961년 이후 케임브리지 세인트존스 칼리지의 펠로.왓슨, "반세기가 넘는 기간 동안 … 문학, 문학 비평, 정치 사상에 관한 많은 책을 출판했다."왓슨의 주장은 아돌프 히틀러와 프리드리히 엥겔스에 관한 몇 가지 흥미로운 사실에 근거하고 있다.나는 그 사실들을 독립적인 출처로부터 검증한 다음, 그 사실들을 두 개의 위키백과 기사, 즉 "나치주의"와 "프리드리히 엥겔스"에 소개하려고 했다.각각의 경우에서 나는 즉시 다른 편집자들에게 뒤바뀌었다.한 다니엘 리갈은 "나치주의"에서 나의 편집을 번복했고, 한 롤랜드R은 "Engels" 기사에서 나의 편집을 번복했다.

다니엘 리갈과의 대립은 이후 "나치주의" 기사에서 편향된 언어에 초점을 맞췄다.나는 "나치주의에서 극우적인 주제들은 우월한 사람들이 다른 사람들을 지배하고 열등하다고 여겨지는 요소들을 숙청할 권리를 가지고 있다는 주장을 포함한다"와 같은 구절은 중립적인 관점에서 제시되지 않는데, 왜냐하면 1) '극우' 집단만이 그러한 신념을 가지고 있다는 것을 귀책하고, 2) 모든 '극우' 집단이 그러한 신념을 갖고 있기 때문이다.믿음그 개념들은 명백히 거짓이며, 나는 그 개념들이 어떻게 거짓인지를 보여주는 역사적 증거가 있다는 예를 제시했다.거짓을 영구히 하는 것은 거짓말이다.

DanielRigal은 나를 금지시키겠다고 협박하는 두 명의 PM을 보낸 후 토론에서 손을 떼고 하나의 TFD로 대체되었다.필자는 TFD가 기사에 대한 어떤 변경사항도 거부하기 위해 사용했던 모든 변명을 실질적으로 다루어 왔지만, 필자는 그 기사가 쓰여진 대로 편향되어 잘못된 정보를 영구히 남기는 것은 중립적인 관점에서 공정하고 편견 없이 자료를 제시하고 자료를 제시하는 위키피디아의 방침에 반하는 것이라고 주장한다.그것이 그 기사와 다니엘 리갈과 TFD에 대한 나의 관심의 초점이다.

나는 DanielRigal과 TFD 둘 다 나를 엥겔스 기사에 따라 거기서 내가 제안한 변경에 대해 논평했다는 것을 덧붙이고 싶다.DanielRigal이 나에게 보낸 세 개의 댓글 중 두 개가 내 토크 페이지에 있다.첫 번째 논평에서, 다니엘 리갈은 내가 "나치주의" 기사에 대해 한 변경에 대해 내가 금지시켰다고 위협했고, 두 번째 논평은 내가 "Engels" 기사에 한 편집에 대해 다루었다 - 이전에 다니엘 리갈이 "Engels" 페이지에 대한 편집에 관여했다는 기록이 없다.

나는 "Engels" 기사와 관련하여 다니엘 리갈로부터 그 두 번째 위협을 받고 놀랐고, 내가 야당 편집인 집단에서 누군가에게 스토킹 당하거나 정보를 제공받았다는 사실에 당황했다.내가 다니엘 리갈, TFD, 롤랑R에 대해 어떤 행정 조치를 취하려는 것이 아니라는 것을 분명히 해두게, 나는 단지 모든 사람들이 내가 지난 3일 동안 상대해 온 상호작용을 알아두었으면 한다.

"Engles" 기사에 관하여.롤랑R이 "Engels" 기사에서 나의 편집을 번복한 후, 나는 그가 가치 있고 신뢰할 수 있는 편집을 하기 위해 필요하다고 생각되는 변경사항과 함께 수정된 편집으로 그의 우려를 직접적으로 다루었다.이러한 편집은 한 명의 사용자에 의해 즉석에서 즉석에서 즉석에서 변경되었다.우연히 다른 기사에서 지난해 맞선 편집자였던 조엘 B. 루이스(JBL)의 말이다.JBL이 "Engels" 기사에서 나의 편집을 번복한 후, 나는 다니엘 리갈로부터 나를 금지하라는 두 번째 위협을 받은 것은 바로 이 시점이었다.

또 다른 편집자인 FreeKnowledgeCreator는 "Engels and the Slabs"라는 제목의 "Engels" 기사에서 토크 페이지를 시작했는데, 그는 이 기사에서 JBL에게 왜 그가 나의 편집을 번복했는지 설명해 달라고 요청했다.나는 대화에 참여했고 마찬가지로 정당성을 요구했다.

나는 모든 사람들이 JBL의 반응과 그 섹션에 뒤따르는 모든 교환을 읽기를 바란다.

나는 '나치주의' 기사와 '엥겔스' 기사에서 모두 내가 편집한 내용을 뒷받침할 충분한 증거와 신빙성 있는 인용문을 제공했고, 어떤 집단이 내 편집을 허용하지 않고 있는 것은 당파적 정치적 이유로 그렇게 하고 있다는 것을 매우 확신하고 있다.

그들의 게시물을 보면 다니엘 리갈, TFD, 롤랜드R, JBL이 함께 연기하고 있고 적어도 한 명, 어쩌면 그들 모두가 내 게시물을 스토킹한 죄가 있다는 것이 명백하다.대니얼 리갈과 TFD 논평은 그들이 '나치주의' 기사에서 '엥겔스' 기사로 나를 따라왔다는 것을 보여준다.내가 그 기사에 대한 변경을 제안하기 전에 다니엘 리갈이나 TFD가 "Engels" 기사의 적극적인 편집자였다는 어떠한 징후도 없다.

RolandR의 코멘트는 그가 FreeKnowledgeCreator의 토크 페이지에 내 글을 올린 후 위키백과 정책을 위반했다고 잘못 비난했다는 것을 보여준다.하지만, 이 모든 것을 관리자들의 주목을 받게 한 나의 진짜 목적은 JBL을 "위키호킹"에 관여했다는 이유로 보고하는 것이다.

위에서 보도한 바와 같이 JBL이 뜬금없이 등장하여 "Engels" 기사에 즉시 대립하게 되었고, 이는 지난해 또 다른 기사와 관련하여 우리가 가졌던 대립적 교류를 고려하면 주목할 만하다.내가 두 가지 모두에 대한 변경을 제안하기 전에 JBL이 "나치주의" 기사나 "Engels" 기사의 적극적인 편집자로 참여했다는 징후는 없다.하지만 기적적으로 그는 갑자기 둘 다에 나타났답니다!그가 어떻게 그 두 기사에 대한 나의 편집 내용을 알았거나 알게 되었는지는 조사할 가치가 있다.그 후, JBL은 "Engels" 기사에 있는 그의 유일한 목적은 그 기사에 대한 나의 제안된 변경사항과 향후 내가 편집하려고 시도해야 할 어떤 후속 기사에 대한 나의 제안을 불쾌하게 좌절시키고 부정하는 것임을 분명히 했다.

JBL의 최근 논평은 분명히 나에게 그에게 보고하라고 도전하는 것이었다고 보고하면서 결론을 내리겠다.

그래서 나는 그렇게 했다.아스펜코크 (대화) 20:32, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 "JDL"의 모든 인스턴스를 수정했으며, 다른 사용자가 당신이 누구에 대해 말하는지 알 수 있도록 링크를 추가했다. --JBL (토크) 20:15, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)
페이지에 대한 "하나의 링크"아스펜코크 (대화) 21:06, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 관련된 모든 사람들이 폴리티팩트 기사를 실제로 읽고 폴리티팩트 기사가 실제로 보도한 내용을 '심각하게' 잘못 전달하고 있었던 사람을 스스로 판단하기를 바란다.아스펜코크 (대화) 20:32, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 콘텐츠 분쟁이며 ANI에 속하지 않지만, 나는 너의 게시물에 대해 간단히 회신할 것이다.위키백과 기사는 "출판되고 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에서 각 관점이 두드러지는 것에 비례하여 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 의해 발표된 모든 중요한 관점을 공정하게 대변한다"고 되어 있다.왓슨은 나치 독일의 역사가가 아닌 빅토리아 시대 문학 교수였다.그의 정치 관련 책들은 학계 출판사에 의해 출판되지 않았고, 그것들이 소수의 독자들에게 도달했을 수도 있지만, 장학금에 영향을 미치지는 않았다.네가 말했듯이, "그의 주장은 아돌프 히틀러와 프리드리히 엥겔스에 대한 몇 가지 흥미로운 사실에 근거한 것이다."그러므로 우리는 그것을 변두리로 다루어야 한다: "우리는 프린지 이론이라는 용어를 매우 넓은 의미로 사용하여 그 특정 분야의 지배적인 견해나 주류적 견해로부터 현저하게 벗어나는 사상을 묘사한다."그것은 커버리지가 너무 적어서 무시되어야 한다.
당신의 텍스트의 벽, 다른 편집자들의 말을 듣지 않는 것, 편향된 비난, 출처의 잘못된 표현, 그리고 그들이 다뤄진 후에도 계속해서 같은 주장을 게재하는 것, 그리고 독창적인 연구에 기초한 논쟁은 가식적이며, 나는 당신에게 기존의 콘텐츠 정책과 지침을 따르거나, 그것들을 변화시키기 위한 작업을 하거나, 또는 f를 제안한다.당신의 견해를 홍보하기 위해 또 다른 포럼을 만드세요.
TFD (대화) 21:15, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 단순한 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니다.나는 즉시 내 게시물을 스토킹하는 한 개인에게 포위되었고 말 그대로 내가 편집한 내용을 차단하기 위해 그가 그곳에 있었다는 것을 인정했다.게다가, 당신의 'fringe'에 대한 정의는 당신의 POV에 너무 편리해서 합법적인 의미를 가질 수 없다.당신의 출처 중 일부가 나의 출처와 같은 의견을 낸다는 사실을 알게 되면, 당신은 두 가지를 모두 기각하고 편의상 두 가지를 모두 무시하게 된다.아스펜코크 (대화) 21:25, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
"내가 편집한 내용을 차단하기 위해 그가 그곳에 있었다는 것을 문학적으로 인정했다." - 당신은 문자 그대로의 입장을 보여주는 차이점이 있는가?위키호킹의 고발은 고드윈의 법칙과 동등한 위키백과다.하지만 물론, 그들이 특정한 기사를 소유하고 있으며, 그들이 지금까지 도전하지 않았던 콘텐츠에 대한 통제나 어려운 콘텐츠 통제 또는 콘텐츠의 오류나 누락에 대한 그들의 안일한 태도를 뒤엎은 새로 온 사람들보다 더 이상 싫어하는 것이 없다고 생각하는 편집자들의 카르텔은 존재한다.Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 22:12, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]

"넌 쓰레기 편집장이야, 쓰레기 편집자야.당신의 편집이 특정한 관점을 밀어붙이기 위한 해학적인 시도들을 형편없이 생각되는 한, 나는 기꺼이 그것들을 되돌릴 이다.만약 당신이 쓰레기 편집을 중단하고 대신 WP에 건설적인 추가를 한다면, I(그리고 다른 모든 사람)는 당신을 되돌릴 가능성이 상당히 낮아질 것이다. --JBL (대화) 02:19, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)

아스펜코크 (대화) 22:33, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 여기서의 반응이 아스펜코크의 전형적인 이해와 반응의 수준을 보여준다는 것을 관찰하고 싶다.또한 실제 diff(내가 올린 글의 복사본이 아닌)도 여기에 있다. --JBL (토크) 22:53, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
다른 편집자가 되돌리는 것은 편집이 아니라 정책을 위반하는 편집만 한다.BTW 당신이 쓴 "왓슨의 전문지식은 당신의 성향과 그릇된 생각을 능가한다."[33] 그건 동료 편집자들에게 말할 수 있는 방법이 아니다.TFD (대화) 23:03, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

이 페이지 상단에 큰 빨간 글씨로 "편집자에 대한 토론을 시작할 때 사용자 토크 페이지에 공지해야 한다"고 적혀 있다.나는 내 토크 페이지에서 애스펜코크의 통지를 예리하게 기대하며 기다린다.이것은 순전히 콘텐츠 논쟁으로, 여러 편집자들이 아스펜코크의 건방진 편집에 명백히 반대하거나, 혹은 되돌리는 것으로, 그의 선거운동에도 불구하고 아무도 그것을 지지하지 않았다.여기서 논의할 것은 아무것도 없다, 프리드리히 엥겔스나치즘의 토크 페이지는 충분하다.롤랑R (토크) 23:17, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

미안하다.이 토론은 JBL에 관한 것이었기 때문에, 내가 알려준 사람은 그뿐입니다.BTW, 너는 정말로 "캔베이스링"에 대한 정책을 읽을 필요가 있다.이미 그들의 Talk Page에서 포럼에 참여한 누군가와 접촉하는 것은 위키에 의해 꽤 괜찮다.Aspencork (talk) 00:01, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 조심스럽게 누군가(아마도, 진행중인 토론에 관여하지 않은 관리자)가 대화 페이지의 거대하고 무의미한 텍스트의 벽을 끝낼 수 있는 방법으로 아스펜코크에게 사물을 설명할 것이라고 낙관한다. --JBL (대화) 23:23, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
또한, 초기의 고소장에 언급된 모든 편집자들이 그것을 알고 있다고 믿는다. (아직 논평하지 않은 두 사람에게 통지했다.) --JBL (대화) 23:29, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

Aspencork, RolandR가 올바르게 지적했듯이, 당신은 이 불평에 대해 토론하고 있는 모든 편집자들에게 그들이 대응할 수 있는 기회를 갖도록 통보할 책임이 있다.이 의무를 알리는 몇 가지 BRIGHT 공지가 있다.또한, 이것은 관리자의 공지사항 게시판이며, 당신은 여기서 중재자와 대화하고 있지 않으며, 이 불만은 중재 사건 요청에 받아들여지기에는 적절하지 않을 것이다.기사 토크 페이지에서 차이점을 해결하고, 심지어 뒤늦게도 ANI 통지를 초기 불만 사항에서 언급한 모든 사용자의 사용자 토크 페이지에 게시하십시오.리즈 23:33, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

@리즈: 위에서 설명한 대로 JBL에게 이 논의의 중심에 있는 사람이기 때문에 알려줬고, 언급은 했지만 다른 사람들이 내 불평의 초점이 아니기 때문에 알려주지 않은 것에 대해 사과한다.여기서 일어난 일은 어떤 기사의 토크 페이지를 넘어서는 것이었다.작가 조지 왓슨이 내가 "프리드리히 엥겔스"와 "나즈즘" 기사를 찾아간 이유야.왓슨은 나를 두 기사에 묶는 흔한 실이며, 들여다보는 외부인은 누구나 그것을 볼 수 있어야 한다.한편, 여기서 언급된 다른 대부분의 것들에 관해서, 그들과 그 두 기사들 사이의 유일한 눈에 보이는 연결고리는 나뿐이다.내가 기사를 쓰기 전에 JBL이 이 두 기사들 중 어느 한 분야에 편집하거나 게시한 흔적은 없다. 따라서, 그가 내가 두 곳에 게시한 것을 어떻게 알았는지, 그리고 왜 그가 이전에 한번도 관심을 가졌던 적이 없었던 두 기사에 관여하는 것이 중요하다는 것을 알게 되었는지, 내가 그곳에 간 후까지 알아내는 것이 중요하다.이 두 기사의 공통점은 작년에 우리가 교류한 것에서 비롯된 나에 대한 그의 애니머스일 것이다.그것이 관리자들 앞에 위키호킹의 예를 들게 한 나의 이유다.Aspencork (talk) 00:01, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 여기서 문제가 행동이라는 Aspencork의 의견에 동의한다.나는 누구에게나 엥겔스 토크 페이지와 아스펜코크에 대한 기여를 볼 것을 추천한다. 내 말이 무슨 뜻인지 알 수 있다.아니면 Drmies가 언급한 계획된 부모님의 토론을 확인해 보십시오. 만약 당신이 관련된 이슈의 짧은 버전을 원한다면.(이것이 콘텐츠 분쟁인 정도까지는 명확한 합의에 의해 해결되었다.) --JBL (대화) 03:08, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 누군가의 편집의 질이 악취를 풍긴다고 지적하는 데 아무런 문제가 없다고 생각한다.몇몇 편집자들은 실제로 "백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다"라고 말한다.이런 편집자들을 '호킹'하고 작품을 개선하거나, 2016년 2월 5일(UTC) 19:32, 5(응답)의 톤을 낮추라고 요구하는 것은 잘못된 것이 없다.

우리가 긴 시간 동안 논의한 주제에 대해 네가 잘 알고 있다는 것은 너의 게시물에서 분명히 알 수 있다.내가 편집한 것은 프리드리히 엥겔스의 "마그야르 투쟁"이라는 이미 소개된 하위 주제였다.내가 처음 편집한 후에, 나는 엥겔스 기사에서 왓슨만이 노골적인 인종차별주의와 슬라브인들의 외출을 요구하는 것에 대해 말하는 것이 아니라는 것을 알게 되었다.엥겔스에 대한 위키 기사의 출처로서 이미 인용된 W.O. 헨더슨은 엥겔스의 노골적인 인종차별적 발언과 독일과 마야르가 슬라브족을 몰살할 권리가 있다는 주장을 어떻게 주장했는지에 주목했다. 결론은 '그리고 그것은 진정한 진보가 될 것이다.'나는 엥겔스 기사의 주제가 공적인 지식이어야 한다고 믿는다. 반면에, 당신은 그 약간의 지식을 적극적으로 억제하기를 원한다.아스펜코크 (대화) 02:17, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 초기 불만 사항에서 TL;DR에 가까운 일관성이 결여되어 있으므로 몇 가지 사항을 무작위로 언급하겠다.
  1. 편집자에게 경고하기 위해 표준 경고 템플릿을 사용하는 것은 호킹, 스토킹 또는 그와 같은 원격으로 어떤 것을 하는 것이 아니다.
  2. 또한 그들의 기여 이력을 체크하는 것도 나쁜 패턴에 맞는지 보기 위해 그들이 또 무엇을 하고 있는지 보기 위해서가 아니다.이것은 다른 기사들도 정리가 필요한지 여부를 알아내고 또한 문제의 편집자가 하나의 주제에 대해 잘못 알고 있는지, 많은 주제에 대해 잘못 알고 있는지 또는 고의로 문제를 일으킬 수 있는지에 대한 의견을 형성하는 지극히 정상적인 방법이다.
  3. 몇몇 사람들은 나치즘과 같은 매우 중요한 주제와 우연히 마주쳤을 때 편집자의 나쁜 행동을 알아차리고, 명백히 형편없는 편집을 하는 것은 유착의 증거가 아니다.그것은 정확히 예상할 수 있는 것이다.많은 사람들이 그 기사들을 본다.그들을 감시해야 하고 이것이 바로 그들을 감시해야 하는 이유다.
  4. 나찌즘 같은 기사나 극우 화제에 관한 다른 기사들을 연마할 도끼가 달린 사람들이 이런 화제의 극우성향의 정립된 학문적 합의를 감추기 위해 그들을 검열하려고 애쓰다가 역사적 합의를 대체하려 했다는 이유로 불려질 때 마치 희생자들처럼 행동하는 것에 나는 진절머리가 난다.그것은 독창적인 연구, 부적절한 합성 및 비주류 이론이었다.이것은 내가 이것에 어떤 담합이 있을지 의심스러울 정도로 충분히 규칙적으로 일어나고 있지만, 나는 또한 대부분의 경우에 관련된 편집자들은 어떤 주류 정치나 역사적 이해로부터 완전히 이혼한 아주 잘못된 사람들일 뿐이라고 믿는다.나는 언제/만약 그러한 담합이 있었는지 말할 수 없고 나는 그것에 대해 누구에게도 비난하지 않았다.나는 이 편집자들과 선의를 가지고 그들이 왜 잘못되었는지 설명하려고 노력하지만, 정치적 선전이 밀어붙이는 아주 노골적인 경우나 그들이 여러 가지 경고를 무시하는 경우, 나는 이러한 행동을 반달리즘이라고 부르고 그에 따라 경고하는 것이 아주 편하다.나는 단지 잘못 이해한 사람에 대해 절대 비난하고 싶지 않다. 그리고 어떤 편집자들이 분개하고 있는지 그리고 그들이 무엇을 잘못했는지에 대해 정말로 확신하지 못하는지를 항상 구분하는 것이 항상 쉽지는 않다는 것을 인정한다. 하지만 나는 그것이 사실이라는 것을 알고 있는 가장 중요한 기사에 반복적으로 터무니없는 말을 삽입하는 사람들과 게임을 할 시간이 없다.무효의그것은 위키피디아에 대한 단순한 공격이 아니다.그것은 역사에 대한 공격이고 이 기사들이 다루는 사건에서 고통받은 모든 사람들의 기억력에 대한 모욕이다.
공식적으로, 나는 그것이 나에게 적용되는 한, 담합에 대한 근거 없는 비난에 반박한다.나는 공개적으로 볼 수 있는 위키백과 대화/프로젝트 페이지 외에 언급된 사람들과 어떠한 의사소통도 하지 않았다.나는 그들 중 누구도 실생활에서 알지 못하며 그들의 이메일 주소나 전화번호를 전혀 알지 못한다.나는 또한 JBL이나 언급된 다른 사람들이 서로 결탁했다고 믿지 않는다.나는 그들이 가지고 있다고 생각할 수 있는 증거를 보여주기 위해 실제로 담합이 있었다고 믿는 사람을 초대한다.그것 없이, 나는 우리가 아스펜코크가 어떤 부메랑의 가치를 인정한다고 생각하는 사람이 없다면 모든 것을 무시할 수 있다고 생각한다. --다니엘 리갈 (토크) 21:20, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
공식적으로 말하자면, 이전에 한 포럼에 참여했던 사람이 토론에 참여하게 되는 것은 이해할 수 있는데, 당신이 <나즈주의> 기사에서 그랬던 것처럼, 여기서는 그것이 문제가 되지 않는다.당신이 나를 다른 기사로 미행하고 내가 어떤 기사에 대해 "확실"하고 있다는 거짓 비난으로 나를 협박하는 것은 전혀 별개의 일이다.게다가, JBL은 내가 거기 있을 때까지, 그가 어느 주제에든 편집에 관여했다는 증거가 없는 두 기사 모두 어딘지 모르게 불쑥 나타났다.아스펜코크 (대화) 01:49, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
스토킹으로 고발될 위험을 무릅쓰고, 나는 User talk를 살펴보았다.아스펜코크#랜덤 편집자(Aspencork#Random Edits)는 IP 편집자에게 출처를 읽어보지 않고 이미 '진실'이 무엇인지 결정했음을 분명히 보여주는 방식으로 회신하며, 어떤 것이든 체리픽킹하려는 의도로 그의 '논증'을 뒷받침하는 내용을 담고 있다.이런 종류의 일에 대한 우리의 방침은 무엇인가?출처가 본문을 지지하는지 검증하는 것은 적법하지만, 삽입을 지지하기 위한 사전 의제로 하는 것은 또 다른 '논란'이 우려되는 것 같다. --대니엘 리갈(토크) 21:49, 2016년 2월 5일
네가 내 토크 페이지를 방문한 것은 적어도 세 번째일 것이다. 반면에, 나는 네 페이지에 있는 것을 찾아본 적이 없다.BTW, 프리츠시 책이 오늘 오후에 도착했다.지금까지 저자는 독일의 민족주의자들과 사회주의자들이 WWI 기간 동안 어떻게 함께 일했는지에 대한 흥미로운 토론을 제안하고 있다. 왜냐하면 당신은 분명히 내가 하고 있는 일에 대해 계속 관심을 갖고 있기 때문이다.아스펜코크 (대화) 01:39, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
편집자의 기고이력이나 사용자토크 페이지를 검토하는 것은 어떤 식으로든 잘못된 것이라는 생각에 즐겁다.만약 그렇다면 우리는 공개적으로 관리자 게시판에서 이것을 하는 것에 대해 토론하고 있을까?내 말은, 우리가 그렇게 하려면 꽤 멍청해야 한다는 거야. --다니엘 리갈 (대화) 12:37, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 네가 위키피디아에서 내 활동을 스토킹하고 있다는 것을 공개적으로 인정함으로써 스스로에게 죄를 뒤집어 씌운 것은 재미있어.아스펜코크 (대화) 16:30, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 그가 자신의 서명에 그의 토크 페이지와 연관성이 있다는 것을 알아차렸다고 생각하는가?
하지만 정말로 스토킹은 그가 그것이 실제로 무엇을 의미하는지 전혀 모르는 것처럼 보일지라도 매우 심각한 비난이다.어떻게 하면 이 드라마가 계속되도록 할 수 있을지 모르겠다.나는 지금 내 마음을 바꾸고 있다고 말해야 하는 것을 후회한다.나는 지금 블록이 아마도 정돈되어 있다고 느낀다.동의하는 사람 또 있어?삶의 의지를 잃지 않고 읽을 수 있는 사람이 또 있을까? --다니엘리갈 (대화) 17:32, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그 증거는 너에게 불리하다.'엔젤스' 기사까지 따라와서는 억울하게 협박하면서 자신을 기소한 겁니다.그 후, 내 활동을 다시 스토킹한 후, 당신은 내가 다른 사람과 나눈 교환에 대해 언급했고, 그 교환에 대해 뭔가 부적절한 것을 비난하려고 했다.아스펜코크 (대화) 17:48, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 다이앤 맥워터의 책을 읽고 있는데, 그녀의 문장 구조에 자주 동의하지 않고, 더 나쁜 것은 그 책이 불필요하게 상세하다고 생각한다.또한, 나는 여기서 진짜 사냥꾼의 실제 증거를 찾을 수 없으며, Aspencork a.는 자신이 말하는 것을 듣는 것을 좋아하고 b.는 말하는 것을 위한 포럼으로서 ANI를 발견했다고 의심한다.아스펜코크(Aspencork)가 3문장 이하의 호칭 사례로 전개되지 않는 한, 나는 누군가 이 소설이 여러 권으로 인쇄되기 전에 닫을 것을 제안한다.드레이미스 (토크) 02:22, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 당신의 자아를 찌를지 모르지만, 나는 당신이 누구인가, 무엇을 읽었는가 하는 어떤 관심도 가져본 적이 없고, 당신이 바쁘게 지내는 것이 무엇인지 알아보기 위해 당신의 토크 페이지까지 당신을 따라간 적도 없다...이 실타래에서 당신이 코웃음을 치는 것을 보는 것 외에.아스펜코크 (대화) 02:48, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 아스펜코크가 자신의 생각이 아닌 틀 안에서 사람들과 협력하는 것과 그와 동의하지 않는 사람들과 교류하는 것에 심각한 문제를 가지고 있다는 것이 분명해지고 있다고 생각한다.그는 어떤 문제에 대한 일반적인 의견과 자신의 의견을 분리할 수 없다.그는 정당한 감시와 호통을 구별할 수 없다.만약 그가 자신의 의견을 사실과 구분하고, 자신의 의견을 개인 블로그와 여기의 사실들로 전달할 수 있다면, 그것은 괜찮았을 것이다.우리 모두 의견이 있다.아무도 실생활에서 NPOV를 가지고 있지 않다.NPOV는 훌륭한 위키피디아 사람이 되기 위해 우리가 채택하는 것이다.항상 쉽지는 않고 가끔 실수를 하지만 나는 아스펜코크가 NPOV를 충분히 이해해서 그것을 채택할 수 있다고 생각하지 않는다.그의 행동이 일시적인 차단을 정당화할지는 모르겠지만, 나는 그가 백과사전에 속하지 않는다고 우리가 지적하지 않는 한, 그의 의견으로서, 그가 좋아하는 모든 것을 출판할 수 있는 다른 곳에서 훨씬 더 행복할 것이라고 생각한다.가장 좋은 결과는 그가 자신의 의견을 다른 곳에 가져가는 것일 것이다.만약 그가 다른 과목에 대해 글을 쓸 때 중립적이고 예의 바르게 지낼 수 있다면, 그는 여전히 그것들에 대한 위키피디아에 기여할 수 있을 것이다.주제 금지가 적절할 것 같아. --다니엘 리갈 (토크) 12:16, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 분명 '협치'라는 용어에 대해 충분히 알고 있지만, 보다 중립적인 문구 대신 '나즈미즘' 기사에서 편향된 문구를 잘못 옹호한다는 점에서 '중립적'이나 '민간적'에 대한 정의에 대해서는 그다지 익숙하지 않은 것이 분명하고, 나를 선동적이고 거짓된 용어들을 금지시키고 평준화 시키겠다고 위협한 것은 바로 당신이었다.e "유물주의"의 e.FYI, 웹스터는 당신이 그렇게 낙천적으로 주장하는 것처럼 어느 한 용어를 '좌파'나 '우파' 이데올로기의 테닛으로 식별하지 않는다는 점에서 진정으로 중립적인 관점에서 '유전자화'와 '인종주의'를 정의하고 있다."오피니언"과 "사실"에 대한 당신의 정의도 마찬가지로 의심스럽다. 왜냐하면 나는 저명한 학자들이 쓴 출처로부터 인용한 내용을 백업하지 않은 편집본을 작성하지 않았기 때문이다.아스펜코크 (대화) 16:30, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 이것을 읽고 있을 때 나는 아스펜코크가 단순히 실마리 부족으로 고통받는 새로운 사용자라고 생각했다.대신에 나는 그들이 2013년부터 편집하고 있다는 것을 알았다[34].사용자의 토크 페이지를 읽는 것이 정상이라는 것을 모른 채 아무도 그렇게 오래 여기 있을 수 없다.이것으로부터 나는 그들이 이 일에 대해 떠맡는 것은 단순히 이 실을 연장하는 것, 즉 교란시키는 것이라고 결론짓지 않을 수 없다.내가 아스펜코크에게 제안하는 것은 이 익살을 철회하고 그들의 콘텐츠 이슈를 WP에 가져가자는 것이다.그들이 그것에 대해 강하게 느낀다면 DR.만약 그렇지 않다면, 내가 여기서 읽은 내용을 보면, 유감스럽게도 우리는 협력 프로젝트를 할 능력이 없는 편집자를 상대하고 있는 것 같다.JbhTalk 19:22, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 막혔다.좋아, 쫑글리.나는 사용자가 협업 프로젝트를 할 수 없고, 쓸데없이 다른 편집자들의 시간을 너무 많이 빼앗는 것을 막았다.비쇼넨톡 19:58, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[답답하다]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

저작권 위반을 하는 SlabKernan

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

SlabKernan은 많은 양의 참고문헌을 기사에 추가하는 것처럼 보이지만, 실제로 일어나고 있는 일은 편집자가 참고문헌을 오려내어 기사에 붙여넣는 것에 불과하다.나는 몇 번 되돌렸지만 그들은 계속 그것들을 덧붙인다.편집한 내용 중 아무거나 가져다가 임의로 문장을 만들어 구글에 복사하면 원본이 나온다.나는 아직 이 편집자가 저작권 위반이 아닌 편집을 찾지 못했다.감성앨라마 (대화) 00:21, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

즉각적인 방어막과 그들의 모든 기여의 핵이 필요하다.블랙매인 (대화) 2016년 2월 6일 01:00 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그들의 모든 기여를 거치고 최종 경고를 했다.다이애나 (대화) 02:47, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

크레이그 J. N. 파울로 편집 문제로 지독의 괴롭힘

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

크레이그 J. N. de Paulo의 토크 페이지에 대한 끝없는 토론에 따라, 그리고 다른 편집자의 제안으로, 나는 이 기사의 페이지에 있는 정보를 뒷받침할 심각한 출처를 찾았는데, 이 정보는 간단히 "쓰레기 출처"로 기각되고 펜실베니아 교회 협의회와 현상보 등 8개의 인용구를 삭제했다.이 기사 페이지의 정보를 뒷받침하는 믿을 만한 출처들이다.도움이 필요해.JustTryintobeJust (대화) 13:03, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

출처의 적합성에 대해 분쟁이 있을 경우 WP에서 문의할 수 있다.RSN. 안내판을 잘못 찾은 것 같아.Brianhe (대화) 13:15, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
그건 전혀 괴롭힘이 아니야. - 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC) 13:16, 2월 4일 (답) 개복숭아[응답하라]
@JustTryintobeJust:당신은 또한 당신이 여기에 보고할 때 사람들에게 통지할 의무가 있는데, 당신은 그것을 하지 못한 것으로 보인다.요셉2302 (대화) 21:12, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
다신 안 돼!지금은 안 돼!이 기사에 대한 제3의 의견이 요청되었다.나는 두 가지 이유로 그것을 제거했다.첫째, 편집자가 두 명 이상이었다.둘째, 이 문제는 개인이 주목할 만한지, 따라서 해당 기사를 주목할 만한 것으로 삭제해야 하는지에 대한 질문으로 보였다.특정 포럼인 '삭제 조항'이 있기 때문에 제3의견의 경미한 절차는 최선의 접근방법이 아니었다."쓰레기 출처"에 대한 분쟁이 있을 경우 RSN으로 이동하십시오. 개인이 주목할 만한지 의문 사항이 있을 경우 WP:AFD. (그런데, 성직자에 대한 삭제 결과를 보라.주요 교파의 주교들은 거의 항상 유지된다.)만약 왕따 주장이 있다면, 그들을 지원하라.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 01:24, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
늙은 가톨릭교도들 - 아마도 AFD에서는 한 푼의 가치도 있을 것이다.조직위원회는 '주요' 교단이 되는 것에 반대할 수 있다.나는 조직위원회의 사람들보다 파스타페리안이나 제다이로 동일시하는 사람들이 더 많다고 거의 확신한다.오직 죽음에서만 의무종료 (대화) 08:37, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

(YET ANTER) WP 사건:반달리즘 및 WP:POV 및 WP:FreeatlastChitchat에서 EDITWAR

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

FreeatlastChitchat는 진행중인 (주: NOT Consensus) 토론으로 인해 갤러리들을 이륙하는 것을 가장한 것뿐만 아니라, 다시 편집 전쟁 환경을 만들었다. re WP:민족성과는 무관하지만 종교(불행히도 주제는 현재 논쟁중인 "대규모 인구"라고 말하고 있다)는 페이지의 노이트닉갈리리스.그러나 어디에도 "religions"라고 쓰여 있지 않다.그는 또한 소싱된 자료를 WP로 되돌렸다.인용구들이 반대일 때 어떤 수치가 "강제 변환"을 겪었다고 진술한 POV.그는 수없이 많은 일을 겪었다. (그리고 나는 우스꽝스럽게 굴지 않는다...나는 얼마나 많은 유효WP를 기억할 수 없다.ANI는 이번 달에만 그를 상대로 소송을 제기했다.나는 List_of_converts_to_Christianity_to_Christianity_from_Islam 페이지에 대한 페이지 보호를 이미 요청했고, 또한 그가 위키백과 전체에 걸쳐 파괴적인 행동을 보였기 때문에 이 주제에 대한 FreeatlastChitchat에 대한 금지도 요청하고 있다.그의 활동을 잠깐 살펴본다면 이것을 확인할 수 있을 것이다.모든 경우에 있어서, 그는 "민족 화랑은 없다"는 미명 아래 WP로 돌아왔다.소스 재료를 삭제하고 소싱되지 않은 "강제 변환"을 청구한 POV.그는 결코 이 변화를 언급하지 않았는데, 이것은 잘못된 범주화/잘못 표현이다.

  1. 여기서 첫 사건[35]
  2. 여기서 두 번째 사건[36]
  3. WP를 위해 인용된 출처를 삭제한 세 번째 사건:POV 여기 [[37]
  4. 또 다른 "편집 전쟁"/WP 사례:이전에 내가 참여/팔로우한 또 다른 기사에 대한 POV.내가 두 번이나 말했듯이, "믿지 말라"는 말은 분명히 WP이다.POV로 돌아가서...그러나 사용자는 또 다른 WP를 주장한다.EDITWAR [[38]

NB: 그는 또한 내가 추측할 수 있는 것은 WP가 아니라면 "친구"일 뿐이다.의 뒤를 따라다니며 그의 "일"을 태그한다.이 사람이 누군지 금방 알게 될 겁니다.트리나크리아누센테 (토크) 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC) 19:41, 답변

"NB: 그는 또한 내가 추측할 수 있는 것WP아니라면 "친구"라고밖에 생각할 수 없다.의 뒤를 따라다니며 그의 "일"을 태그한다. 이 사람이 누군지 바로 알 수 있을 겁니다."트리나크리알루센트, 부메랑을 경험하지 않고서는 절대 그런 근거 없는 비난과 질책을 할 수 없다.그 혐의를 명명하고 입증하든가 아니면 무혐의로 처리하든가.소프트라벤더 (토크) 00:28, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
절대: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2002:C302:FC40:0:EC4:7AFF:FE0D:C0BDTrinacrialucente (토크) 00:34, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • '응답하라, 부메랑이 날아야 한다.
  1. 다른 편집자들은 이것에 대해 내 의견에 동의한다.당신과 의견이 다른 모든 사람들을 바보라고 부르는 것은 유치하고 어리석은 짓이다.
  2. 우리의 편집은 위키백과 정책에 기초한다.
  3. 나나 다른 편집자들 모두 3pr 제한을 넘지 않았어

FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 19:48, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

현재의 합의는 인종 집단 또는 이와 유사하게 큰 인구관한 조항은 그룹 멤버의 이미지 갤러리에 의해 설명되어서는 안 된다(WP의 4번 지점:노에트닉갤러리(NOETHNICGalleries).그 변화가 있기 전까지는 이 글에 갤러리가 포함되면 안 된다.민족적인 부분에 너무 치중하고 있어.이 갤러리를 없애는 모든 근거는 어떤 개인이 전체 그룹을 대표해야 하는지를 결정하는 것이 불가능하다는 것이다.갤러리는 민족별 기사에서는 가장 흔했지만 국한되지는 않았다. clpo13(talk) 19:51, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
또한, 당신이 참조한 갤러리에 대한 현재 토론으로 링크해 주시겠습니까?clpo13(talk) 19:53, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서 이 정책의 문구와 적용에 대한 논의가 있다.아직 논의가 진행 중이지만, 두 경우 모두 해당 갤러리와 관련된 문제가 동일하기 때문에 이 정책이 인종 집단뿐만 아니라 종교에도 적용된다는 일반적인 합의가 있었다.라즐로 파나플렉스 (토크) 20:20, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 여기서 보는 것은 WP의 명확한 사례다.부메랑. 나는 FLCC가 AN/I로 끌려간 횟수를 세어 보았는데, 솔직히 지긋지긋해.체스(토크) 20:23, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
게다가, 트리나크리아누센테, 나는 FLCC에 대한 여러 번의 소송에서 분명히 드러난 너의 "우울한" 태도가 매우 싫다. - 네가 ALL CAPS를 사용하는 것은 내가 너를 진지하게 받아들이기 어렵게 한다.아까도 말씀드렸지만 이런 일은 이번이 처음이 아니에요.는 네가 지팡이를 떨어뜨리고 죽은 말에서 물러날 필요가 있다고 생각해.체스 (대화)20:26, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
"당신이 지긋지긋하다"거나 "불쾌하다"는 것은 당신의 다른 어떤 개인적인 감정과 마찬가지로 무관하다(그리고 "소란하다"는 말은 말이 아니므로 그것에 대해 말도 할 수 없다).만약 당신이 당면한 주제를 다룰 수 없다면, 나는 당신이 단지 당신의 WP에게 말하고 있는 것처럼, 다음으로 넘어갈 것을 제안한다.POV 및 이 프로세스 중단.트리나크릴루센트 (대화) 21:56, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
4번 포인트에 대해서, 나는 왜 [시아]가 수니파 내레이터와 송신기가 POV라고 생각하지 않는지, 시아 이슬람교도들은 일관되고 신뢰할 있는 하디스 방법론을 따르지 않는지 잘 모르겠다.사실, 시아가 수니파의 역사를 고려할 때 종교적 문제에 있어서 수니파를 신뢰하지 않을 것이라는 것은 상식처럼 보인다.어쨌든, 당신은 또한 당신의 회상에서 소스화된 단락을 삭제해 왔다.기억해라, 전쟁을 편집하려면 두 개가 필요하다.대신 토크 페이지에 그것을 써넣어라.clpo13(talk) 23:04, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 비관리자 스피디드 클로즈업 FCC에 대한 모든 논의는 지긋지긋하다.여기서 ANI의 시간을 막을 만한 것도 없고 가치 있는 것도 없다.내가 FCC에 대해 비판적이었던 적이 있으니, 내가 여기 FCC에 반대하는 것은 아무것도 없다고 말할 때 내 말을 믿어라.갤러리 제거는 괜찮아, 거기는 문제 없어.목록에 없는 사람들을 제거하는 것은 우선 그들에게 꼬리표를 붙이는 것으로 할 수 있다. 나는 그것이 더 나을 것이라고 생각한다. 하지만 그들을 완전히 제거하는 것은 차단하기 어렵다.트리나크리알루센트, 우리는 종종 내용에 동의하는데, 내가 이런 보도들은 너 자신만 해친다고 말할 때 나를 믿어줘.내가 너에게 건전한 충고를 할 수 있게 해줘.
    1. 절대 대문자를 사용하지 마십시오.
    2. 일반적인 편집 한 가지에 근거하여 다른 사람을 속이는 행위를 절대 비난하지 마십시오.
    3. 소송을 제기할 경우, 짧고 사실적인 것으로, 길고 감정적인 것이 아닌 것으로 만드세요.
    4. 향후 6개월 동안 FCC를 상대로 어떤 소송도 제기하지 마십시오.FCC가 잘못하면 다른 사람들이 눈치챌 것이다.
나는 이 일이 다시 한번 걷잡을 수 없게 되기 전에 어떤 행정관이 이 일을 빨리 끝내기를 바란다.볼 것도 없고, 이제 물러가라.제피즈 (대화) 00:53, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

또 이러면 안 돼이것은 12월에서 오늘까지 프리마트라스트치치에 대한 다섯 번째 보고서와 같다.나는 제피즈의 말에 동의한다.모든 사람들은 같은 편집자들이 같은 사용자들에 대해 논평하는 것에 싫증이 나는데, 이것은 어떤 싸움터 행동을 증명한다.우리 모두 왜 벌써 넘어갈 수 없는 거야?이것은 단지 시간 낭비일 뿐이다.콜메밀라 🍁 {Talk} 01:40, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Drummerton의 사용자 대화 액세스 취소

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

특별 참조:Diff/703633317.에스콰이컬레이션 03:16, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

토크 페이지 액세스가 취소되고 위반 디프가 삭제되었다.란키베일 03:21, 2016년 2월 7일(UTC)[답답하다]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP 203.17.215.22 및 203.17.215로 KrazyKlimber 및 IP 101.182.100.189의 블록 회피 가능성.26

두 사용자 모두 조나단 미첼의 유사한 편집을 반복해서 하는데 아무런 도움이 되지 않는다.둘 다 호주 출신이다.그것에 대해 할 수 있는 일이 있을까?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=KrazyKlimber&namespace=&tagfilter=&year=2016&month=-1https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=KrazyKlimber&namespace=&tagfilter=&year=2016&month=-1

https://https:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/101.182.100.189

https://https:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/203.17.215.22

https://https:///en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/203.17.215.26

그래, 내가 그 기사를 CoI로서 직접 편집하지 말았어야 한다는 것을 알고 있지만, 그는 내가 굳이 그럴 필요가 없다고 생각했을 때 그것을 공개하라고 크레이지클림버로서 부당한 압력을 가했다, 내 관계가 접선되어 있기 때문이다.또한 크레이지클림버는 그와 함께 CoI를 가지고 있지만, 나는 그 문제에 대해서는 더 이상 말하지 않을 것이다.

일레벤탈 (대화) 03:45, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

게다가 그는 크레이지클림버닷컴(https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=702879655)에서 했던 것처럼 나에 대한 개인적인 비난을 하고 있다. 즉, "나는 그가 어디로 가는지 알고 있고 내가 그것을 인정한다.그는 자본 T와 문제가 있고 자폐사회 내에서 문제아로 명성을 날리고 있다.나는 그를 그것에 대해 끌어올릴 자격이 꽤 있다" Ylevental (토크) 05:04, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답하라]

이 중 대부분은 SPI의 이슈로 보인다.호주 IP들이 위키 토론에서 당신이 여기서 하는 일을 언급했다는 것은 문제가 있지만, 여기서 SPI가 더 유용한 것 같다.토론-이중(t/c) 04:33, 2016년 2월 4일(UTC)[응답]

패스트펙스

누군가 Fastifex(토크 · 기여 · 삭제 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)를 살펴볼 수 있는가?(나 자러 간다)그는 2006년부터 활동했으며 최근 재활성화했으며 WP를 통해 다음과 같은 성과를 거둔 것으로 보인다.CIR 문제.그는 페이지를 상당히 높은 속도로 이동시켜 완전히 불필요한 dab 페이지[39][40]를 만든다.그의 토크 페이지에는 봇 알림과 위키피디아가 어떻게 작동하는지에 대한 설명이 나뒹굴고 있지만, 그는 그의 미션을 변함없이 이어가는 것 같다.해당사용자(대화)없음(UTC) 22:27, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

와우, 난 이 모든 움직임들을 따를 수도 없고, 방향을 바꿀 수도 없고, 이중 방향을 바꿀 수도 없어.너는 차트와 그래프와 머리를 감싸기 위한 이젤이 필요하다.그는 2006년에 이런 일로 네 번이나 차단을 당해서 확실히 더 잘 알고 있다.케이티talk 02:15, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
동의해 이건 확실히 걱정이야사용자에게 이 ANI 스레드에서 모든 문제가 해결될 때까지 이러한 모든 이동을 중지하고 리디렉션하도록 경고할 것을 제안한다.여기서 경고와 토론을 요청했음에도 불구하고 활동이 계속된다면, 나는 우리가 답변을 들을 때까지 블록을 진행하라고 거의 말하고 싶다.이런 일이 일어나는 비율이 내 생각에는 위안을 주기에는 너무 높다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 03:04, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
Burca dab 페이지는 잘못되었을 뿐만 아니라 불필요해 보인다.첫 번째 엔트리는 바르카(고향 도시)에 대한 오류로 나타나, 유일하게 유효한 엔트리를 속주(속주)로 만들고, 이미 부르카(속주)의 해트노트를 통해 연결된 루마니아 마을로 만든다.(해트노트는 기사 제목이 노골적인 '부르카'일 때 더 일리가 있었다.)Deor (대화) 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC) 12:00[응답]
난 파스티펙스가 여기에 참여하도록 격려해줬어 왜냐면 그가 초래하는 피해를 깨닫기 전까지 혼란에 대한 방어막을 내줄 수 있을 정도거든케이티talk 13:16, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답하라]
이전에 파스텍스를 처리한 적이 있는 BD2412를 핑하고, 이미 여러 차례 경고를 내렸다.해당 사용자(대화) 없음 2016년 2월 4일(UTC) 12:21, 4 [응답]
나에게, 이것은 왜 우리가 위키피디아에 한 페이지를 가지고 있다는 생각을 되살려야 하는지를 정확히 보여준다.주어진 제목이 모호해야 하거나 그렇지 않아야 한다는 제안에 대한 합의 기반의 해결을 위한 토론을 위한 모호성.해체는 큰 사건이고, 잠재적으로 매우 지저분하며, 일반적으로 그 난장판이 만들어지기 전에 한 곳에서 논의되어야 한다.bd2412 T 13:32, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

발렌시아 국가, 바스크 국가카탈로니아(스페인 국가)

사용자 차단을 요청하는 경우스페인이 다른 국적(국가)과 지역에 의해 통합된 다양한 국가라는 것을 인식하지 못한다는 이유만으로 Satesclop과 그의 IP 주소가 여러 사용자들과 계속 전쟁을 하고 있다.그는 용어를 섞으려 하고 있고, 일부 사용자들이 표시하기로 동의한 녹색 지도를 사용하는 것을 거부하고 있다(이런 종류의 지도는 이러한 영토들이 독립적이라는 것을 의미하지 않는다), 또한 그가 카탈로니아/발렌시아 문화 영역을 공격했기 때문에 나는 그가 좋은 사용자라고 생각하지 않는다.제우제 16:42, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

또한 나는 지속적인 반달리즘으로 인해 그러한 기사들을 보호해 줄 것을 요청한다 — Juuee 17:02, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
스페인 사람들의 기사에 그를 위해 스페인 국기를 하나 추가했다 — Jjuмe(dis-me) 18:17, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
요점을 지적하기 위해 방해하는 일이 없도록 주의해라.이반벡터 🍁 (대화) 20:44, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

Elvey - 부과된 TB 커뮤니티 위반

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Elby이것에 대해 지역 사회에 의해 COI 문제에서 무기한 금지된 주제였다.이 금지 주제는 2015년 8월 7일에 시작되어 6개월 동안 운영된다.엘베이는 이 금지령을 여러 번 위반했고, 제임스 행정관으로부터 한 번 경고를 받았다.BWatson은 지난주에 여기 있는 나에게서 결핵을 상기시켰다.

내 경고는 지난 한 달 동안 그의 결핵 위반으로 인해 왔다.

내가 경고한 후에 엘비는 바로 오늘 아침에 다음과 같은 수정을 했다.

는 한 약물에 대한 기사에서 COI가 주도하는 편집을 주장하기 시작했다.
데이비드 힐리(제약업계의 COI에 관한 글을 쓰는 사람)에 관한 기사에 대한 이 세 가지 편집된 내용은 제약업계의 이해충돌에 관한 글의 여기 저기에서 "폭탄셸"에 관한 내용을 다루고 여기서도 계속해서 마약 기사에 "폭탄셸"에 관한 내용을 추가했다.
좀 더 광범위하게, 그는 (이미 제시된 이 dif와 그 밖의 다른 것에 대해) 마약 기사와 관련하여 COI가 있다고 믿는 편집자에 대한 SPI 사례를 추구해 왔다.반자게니제 행정관은 "이제 공식적으로 WP 참여를 중단해달라"고 말했다.SPI. 넌 이제 더 이상 환영받지 못해.당신의 발언은 단지 당신을 이해하고 도움을 주고자 했던 다른 사용자들에 대한 모욕으로 가득 차 있다. 이것은 엄청난 시간 낭비다."

엘비는 지역 사회가 부과하는 주제 금지를 무시했다.그는 WP에서 COI 문제를 처리하는데 지장을 주지 않는 것 같고 상당한 블로그 로그를 가지고 있다.

나는 그가 현재 진행 중인 결핵 위반 편집 작업을 중지하기 위해 48블록을 제안한다. 그리고 COI에 대한 그의 주제의 연장은 무기한으로, 그리고 그것을 해제하기 위한 표준 제안과 함께.Jytdog (대화) 15:27, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC) (Jytdog (대화) 17:53, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 알기로는, 그의 주제 금지는 이미 무기한이며, "6개월 후에 지역사회에 호소될 수 있다"고 했다.이는 6개월 후에 만기가 되는 것이 아니라 6개월 후에 항소될 수도 있다는 것을 의미한다.그래서, 너의 두 번째 제안은 중복된다.그리고, 너의 첫 번째 제안과 관련하여, 나는 "48블록"이 무엇인지 전혀 모르겠다.반자제니제(대화) 17:26, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
Vanjagenije가 지적해줘서 고마워 - 나는 위에 올린 글을 수정했어.커뮤니티가 예전보다 더 관대했다고 생각했다.(48시간 btw) Jytdog (대화) 17:53, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 위키피디아에서 정의한 COI와 관련하여 금지 주제를 이해한다.COI, 대략적으로 해석된다.나는 이것이 명확해질 때까지 더 이상의 편집과 관련된 것을 보류할 것이다.나는 금지되어 있기 때문에 거의 전적으로 그것을 위반하지 않고서는 나를 변호할 수 없기 때문에 더 이상 묻지 않는 한 논평하지 않을 것이다.Sockpuppetry 확정으로 그 이후 사용이 금지되었고 WP를 존중하지 않는 사용자에게 SPI를 개설한 것이 자랑스럽다.NPOV, 물론 Jytdog는 일상적으로 그를 최대한 방어한다.Jytdog와 이 사용자는 때때로 좋은 일을 했다.나는 가능한 한 사용자가 CoI를 공개했는지 아니면 공개했는지에 대한 언급을 피하려고 했다.사용자가 공개 또는 공개(F)CoI를 가지고 있다고 생각하지만, 그렇지 않다고 생각한다고 가정하더라도, 사용자에게 분명히 잘 보존된 SPI를 개방하지 않도록 예방접종을 해야 하는가?전 그렇지 않다고 생각해요.Jytdog는 과거에 자신을 변호하지 않았던 이 사용자를 광적으로 옹호하며, 이 ANI는 다른 사람들이 주목한 방어 전략의 일부분이다.***
Jytdog의 차이점은 그가 말하는 것을 대체로 보여주지 않는다.그리고, 가끔 의도하지 않은 실수를 피하기는 어렵다.그리고, 나는 가끔 실수를 했다. 그리고 나는 그것에 대해 사과하고 그러지 않으려고 노력하고 있다.
Jytdog는 현재 극도로 비NPOV를 지원하기 위해 자료를 재도입하기 위해 전쟁을 편집하고 있다.이 자료는 수용할 수 없으며 동일한 품질의 동일한 국부적 공급원에 의해 지원되는 재료를 제거할 때 그가 지지한 WRT WP:MEDRS가 수용 가능한 내용에 대한 Jytdog의 자체 표현된 견해에 위반된다.
최근 들어 두 번이나 "대체 계좌가 있느냐"고 물었지만, 그는 막연하게 "할 말이 없다"고 말하고 대답 대신 실을 셧다운했다.WP의 문장:COMITY는 "편집자들은 상당히 협조적이며, ... , 그리고 선의의 질문에 응답할 것으로 기대된다"고 말한다.Jytdog는 이 선의의 질문에 아무런 반응을 보이지 않고 우리의 WP를 위반하고 있다.그가 응답할 때까지 민간 정책.
나는 반자게니제의 금지를 존중해 왔으며, 그 근거에 동의하지 않는 것만큼이나 존중해 왔다.그것은 반자게니제가 선의의 질문에 무반응으로 지금까지 벗어나도록 하는 역할을 했다.사실무근이다; 나는 아무도 모욕하지 않았다; 나는 우리의 정책이 우리에게 권장하는 것처럼 조사하거나, 합리적인 질문을 하고, 행동에 대해 논평했다. 하지만 나는 훨씬 더 예의 바르게 행동할 수 있었을 것이다.
위에서는 부정직함이 전시되어 있는데, 그곳에서 십여 차례는 Jytdog가 다른 무언가가 복잡하고 '범위를 벗어남'으로 직설적인 상황을 재구성하려고 한다.직설적인 상황은 내가 (위기에 따라) 나를 향한 '근거 없는 인신공격'으로 인식하는 것을 그 문구로 대체한 것이다.{{rpa}}}을(를) 사용할 수도 있었지만 다른 표현을 원했다.이 직설적인 행동은 반자게니제에게 뒤바뀌었고 또 다시 나에 대한 그의 인신공격을 제거하면 나는 즉시 차단될 것이라는 위협을 받았다.이건 왕따야.합리적인 사람들은 그것이 인신공격인지에 대해 동의하지 않을 수 있다.나는 이성적인 사람들이 자신이 느끼는 것을 제거하기 위해 즉각적인 차단막으로 누군가를 협박하는 것은 합리적이고 인신공격이라고 합리적으로 보여지는 것은 타당하다고 생각하지 않는다.그리고 행정관에게는 특히 부적절한데, 왜냐하면 우리는 그들이 일반 편집자들보다 더 잘 행동하고 관련되었을 때 행동하지 않을 것으로 예상하기 때문이지요. 그리고 여기서 공격은 행정관 반자게니제(Vanjagenije)의 공격이었습니다.SlimVirgin은 자신이 연루되었다고 생각했어야 한다는 것에 동의한다.
다시 편집으로 돌아가고 싶어.--Elvey(tc) 17:04, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@Elvey: 아마 눈치채셨겠지만, 이것은 관리자 안내판이지, 너만의 안내판이 아니다.다른 사람의 댓글을 한 번만 더 수정하면 바로 차단할게.반자제니제(대화) 18:06, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
반자게니제, 나는 그 SPI에서 일어난 모든 일을 다 알지는 못하지만, 그것이 당신을 화나게 한 것 같으니까, 엘비에 관한 한 당신 자신이 연루되어 있다고 생각해야 할 것 같아.그는 SPI의 처리 방식 때문에 좌절하고, 당신은 당신이 시키는 대로 하지 않아 좌절하고 있으며, 상황은 점점 고조되고 있다.이제 Jytdog는 금지를 원한다.지난 2년 동안 Jytdog가 얼마나 자주 블럭과 금지를 요청했는지 살펴봐줘.우리는 분비가 필요하다.사라SV 06:10, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 엘비가 적절한 항소를 할 때까지 그의 주제 금지를 준수할 필요가 있다.그는 왜 그가 금지된 주제인지에 대한 이해를 표한 적이 없다; 그는 그가 주제 금지법을 위반했다는 것을 알고 있다는 것을 여기에서는 인정하지 않는다.우리는 그런 상황에서 탈분석을 하지 않는다.Jytdog (대화) 14:58, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 엘비의 주제 금지에 대한 나의 잘못된 이해에 비추어 나는 위에서 나의 원래 추천을 받았다.나는 제안하는 것이 중요하다고 생각하므로 새로운 제안을 할 것이다.위와 같은 점에 비추어 엘비에게 6개월의 블록을 요구하고 있으며,이상의 혼란을 막기 위해 엘비에게 계속적인 교란을 요청하고 있다(예를 들어, 위의 반자게니제처럼 나의 직책을 편집하는 것, 이 dif에서).내가 반자게니제의 인용문을 편집하여 '근거 없는 인신공격'이라고 부른 것처럼 보이게 하는 것은 정말 도를 넘어선 것이다.)Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 17일 18:13 (UTC)[응답]
  • 일종의 블록을 지지한다.블록의 길이가 어느 정도여야 하는지는 잘 모르겠지만, 여기에는 심각한 문제가 있다.아래에 구체적인 증거를 더 제시하겠다. --Tryptofish (대화) 21:27, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답하라]

부메랑?

Jytdog는 현재 유전자 변형 유기체와 농약과 관련된 문제에 대해 ArbCom이 부과한 주제 금지를 받고 있다.
ArbCom 발견
  1. Jytdog가 편집 전쟁을 벌였고, 다른 편집자들을 얕잡아 보았고, 비문명적인 행동에 종사했다는 것.
  2. Jytdog는 그들의 형편없는 예의에 대해 훈계를 받는다.
Jytdog를 토론할 때, Jytdog는 ArbCom이 부과한 주제 금지를 위반한다. 이전의 98개는 이러한 영역에서 편집된 것처럼, 논리적으로, 만약 내가 그의 편집에 대해 토론한 것에 대해 나의 TB를 위반하는 것이라면. (증거: diffJytdog광범위한 GMO 토론을 보여준다)


여기 괜찮은 곳이야?Is WP:AE가 더 적절한가?
오, 그리고 그것은 다른 이유들로도 흥미로운 차이점이다. 어떻게 Pharmacia & Elan이 언급되었는지 보라!일부 사용자는 WP에 맞춰 편집할 수 있다.그런 고용관계에도 불구하고 NPOV. --Elvey(tc) 17:04, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 도 안 되는 소리 나는 너의 로그가 네가 가질 수 있는 어떤 부메랑보다 훨씬 더 길지 않을까 두렵다.Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 2016년 1월 17일(UTC) 17:43[응답]
나 때문이 아니야.부메랑에 관한 한, Jytdog가 ArbCom이 부과한 주제 금지를 위반한 것에 관한 것이다.토론의 방향을 바꿔보려고 해 봐.--Elvey(tc) 18:01, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
AN/I에 있는 모든 사람들이 가지고 있는 자동적인 권리라고 생각하는 것 같아.이것은 사실이 아니며, 실제로 당신이 당신의 행동에 대한 토론과 도끼를 비껴가려고 하고 있다는 것은 명백하다; 이것은 물론 실패할 것이다.FortunaImperatrix Mundi 2016년 1월 17일 18시 7분 (UTC)[응답하라]
아, 부메랑이 두 사람을 때려서 빼내는 건 전적으로 가능한 일이지. - 부시 레인저One ping only 22:53, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그건 그냥 막대기 아닌가?오직 죽음에서만 의무종료 (대화) 09:15, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
아... 프로토타입 Mk I? 14FortunaImperatrix Mundi:11, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여기 Jytdog가 GMO에 관한 금지 주제에 대해 위반했다고는 보지 않는다. --Tryptofish (토크) 21:29, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 부시 레인저?ANI인 줄 알았어.제 질문에 대답해 주시겠습니까? "여기가 괜찮은 곳인가?WP:AE가 더 적절한가?"--Elvey(tc) 15:54, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 주요 이슈는?만약 내가 Jytdog의 주장대로 Every 98을 논의했기 때문에 TP 금지를 위반하고 있다면, Jytdog는 ArbCom이 부과한 이 같은 주제 금지를 위반하는 것이다.여기서 다루지 않으면, 에 대해 무르익는다.WP:AE. --Elvey(tc) 15:54, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
관리자가 POV를 공유하지 않는 사람들에게만 정책을 시행하고 손익분기준을 "중단"하도록 요청해도 괜찮을까?- ( --Elvey(tc) 15:54, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
Jytdog에게 위반 사실을 인정하거나 이의를 제기할 것을 재차 요청함. --Elvey(tc) 15:54, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
너의 주장은 무익하다.편집자와 그의 행동에 대한 이유와 그의 사용자 이름/계정을 중심으로 토론하는 것, 그리고 커뮤니티가 그것에 대해 무엇을 해야 하는지에 대해 토론하는 것은 나의 TBAN과는 아무런 상관이 없다.나는 Arbcom을 제외하고 TBAN이 부과된 이후로 TBAN의 주제에 대해 전혀 언급하지 않았다.이것은 투명하고 보복을 위한 약한 노력인데, 이것은 당신의 일반적으로 파괴적인 행동에 대한 더 많은 증거다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 29일 16:26 (UTC)[응답하라]

질문

Elby의 금지가 사용자와 관련된 어떤 것으로도 확대되는가?98년 전에 그가 편집한 기사를 포함해서?
그것은 CoI에 의해 고발된 어떤 편집자에 대한 금지까지 확장되는가?--Elvey(tc) 17:04, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]


  • 아니오. CoI, 사용자가 편집한 기사 및 사용자에 의한 삭스퍼피와 관련된 이슈에 대해 논의하지 않는 경우:기존 98번은 엘비에 오픈. --엘비(tc) 17:04, 2016년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • BTW, 누가 이 편집자에게 제대로 포맷하는 법을 좀 가르쳐 줄래?!어쨌든 그것은 다른 모든 사람들에 의해 해결된 것 같다! 2016년Imperatrix Mundi 1월 17일 17:47, 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]

관련 문제

Jytdog가 여기에 제시했거나 제시할 수 있는 어떤 것과 별도로, Elby는 또한 최근에 COI에 대한 지역사회 주제 금지[41]와 ArbCom이 최근에 발표한 임의 제재에 위배되는 매우 호전적인 행동을 보여주었다.DS는 여기에서 제정되며, 편집자가 GMO 회사를 대신하여 COI를 보유한 다른 편집자의 포부를 DS 대상 페이지에 캐스팅하는 것을 금지하는 이 원칙을 포함한다.글리포세이트의 페이지와 그 대화 페이지는 DS의 범위에 있다.

아주 최근에, 엘비는 토크 페이지에 [42]라는 글을 올렸다. 중간 단락에 주목하라.엘비는 또 다른 편집자가 GMO 회사들을 대신해 COI와 함께 편집하고 있다는 비난을 분명히 제기한다.후속 논의: [43], [44], [45], [46], [47], [48], [49]엘비는 COI에 대해 전혀 언급하지 않고 있으며, 자신과 의견이 다른 사람은 누구나 독해력이 부족하다는 환상적인 입장을 취하고 있다.그는 날카롭고 전쟁터 같은 존재로 기존의 주제 금지를 초래한 행동을 계속하고 있다.시간 경과에 따른 이 모든 행위는 하나의 작품이며, 중단이 필요하다. --Tryptofish (토크) 21:52, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 그것을 COI의 주장으로 보지 않는다.그는 다음과 같이 썼다: "우리는 WP를 해서는 안된다:IAR은 아무리 [사용자:X]가 요구하는 사당이나 반복적인 요구에도 불구하고, 주머니가 두둑한 대기업의 명예를 지키기 위해서라고 말했다.
그는 편집자가 자신을 돌볼 수 있는 대기업의 방어를 반복적이고 날카롭게 하고 있으며, 우리는 그 회사에 맞는 정책을 무시해서는 안 된다는 견해를 표명하고 있다.(논쟁을 보지 않았기 때문에 동의할지는 알 수 없고, 그 문장을 어떻게 이해할 수 있을지에 대해서만 말하고 있다.)사라SV 22:18, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 그는 당신이 그것을 COI의 주장으로 이해했다고 썼을 때, 여기와 여기, 그리고 당신이 여기에 그것을 분명히 했다.사라SV 22:31, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
믿을 수 없어, 맥락상.단순히 편집상의 판단에서 "주머니가 두둑한 대기업의 명예를 지키기 위해" 따라오는 사람은 없다.그것은 ArbCom 사례가 다른 편집자들에게서 발견한 것과 일부분이고 일부분이다.그리고 다른 편집자에 대해서는 날카로운 것이 없었고, 그 점에 대해서는 내가 영어 독해력이 부족한 것도 아니었다.그것은 명확화가 아니다.같은 행위의 연속이다. --Tryptofish (대화) 22:37, 2016년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 엘비의 문제가 COI나 SPI에 대한 그의 집착이 아니라, 그가 기분이 언짢을 때 다른 편집자들을 향한 호전성의 특징적 행동인 "수축과 전쟁터"에 있다는 것을 지적한다.트립토피쉬의 말처럼 "시간이 지남에 따른 이 모든 행위는 하나의 조각으로 이루어져 있다...." 토크에서 나온 예에 덧붙여 다음과 같이 말했다.위에서 인용한 글리포세이트는 토크에서 매우 유사한 행동에 주목한다.WP로 넘어간 Levofloxacin#Pictures_of_text:토론 파일/2016년 1월_5#파일:Levofloxacin-black-box.png, User_talk:Steel1943#1월_2016. P.S., Talk에는 더 많은 것이 있다.Fluoxetine#Kapit et seq.
신기하게도 '판타스틱'은 엘비의 진술을 특징짓으려다 간밤에 내게 찾아온 것과 같은 말이다.다른 편집자들의 논평에 대한 그의 이해는 심지어 자신의 행동에도 불구하고 종종 상당히 왜곡된 것처럼 보인다.그리고 그가 얼마나 많은 베이스를 뛰는지 이해하지 못하는 것 같다. ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 00:00, 2016년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
오랜만에 독해력 시험을 봤는데 만점을 받았어.편집자(이것은 꽤 흔한 관행이다, 오늘 우연히 엘비일 뿐이다)가 콘텐츠 분쟁의 맥락에서 "주주가 큰 회사"를 지지하는 반대자들에게 반복적으로 암시를 할 때, 그들은 COI 고발을 하고 있다.그들은 이것 또는 그렇지 않으면 그들의 표현을 그렇게 부끄럽게 하지 않을 것이라는 것을 알고 있다.그렇다면 같은 편집자가 부인할 때, 그들은 우리의 집단지성을 모욕하고 있는 것이다.여기서 우리가 알아낼 수 있어.제진(대화) 03:21, 2016년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
위에서 지오젠은 이 사건이 공동체의 집단지성을 시험할 수도 있다는 것을 예리하게 관찰했다.엘비의 행위가 용납되지 않을 것임을 나타내는 명확한 선을 긋지 않는 한, 그 대답이 우리에게 그다지 잘 반영되지 않는 것 같다.아니, 누구를 핑계대지는 않겠지만, 나는 편집자들이 POV pu에 대항하여 밀어붙이는 편집자들의 명예를 실추시키려는 투명한 시도로 비난되고 있기 때문에, 편집자들이 COI 질식들의 부정한 뒤척임과 함께 COI에 대한 정당한 조사를 증거로 뒷받침할 어떤 의도도 없이 혼동하고 있다는 것은 우스꽝스러운 일이라고 생각한다.shers. 이 문장을 만들었던 편집자에 의해문장을 다시 쓰게 코멘트들. --Tryptofish (토크) 20:31, 2016년 1월 21일 (UTC) 아마도 ANI는 이 문제를 다룰 능력이 없고 ArbCom으로 돌아가게 될 것이다.그러나 나는 엘비에게 당신이 모든 밧줄을 다 써버렸다고 아주 분명하게 말할 것이며, 그 어떤 연속도 매우 진지하게 다뤄질 것이다. --Tryptofish (토크) 18:07, 2016년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
우리는 많은 종류의 행동에 대해 명확한 선을 그어 그들이 용인되지 않을 것임을 보여주고, 기사의 중립성을 보장할 필요가 있다.만약 정책들과 지침들이 편견이나 편견 없이 전반적으로 시행된다면, 이 근처에서는 일이 잘 풀릴 것이다.또한 누가 POV 푸셔인지와 누가 POV 푸셔에 대해 뒤로 밀리는 편집자인지에 대한 상대적 판단이라는 점에 유의한다.동기 부여에 관한 추측도 꽤 자주 오류를 범한다.정책과 지침은 명확하다.우리는 그들이 동등하게 시행되거나 동등하게 무시될 필요가 있다.그렇지 않으면 우리는 편파적인 시행을 하게 되고, 이것은 물론 편집자의 권한 부여에 편향된 것으로 이어지고, 그것은 편파적인 기사를 낳게 된다.세이지래드 (토크) 2016년 1월 22일 14시 45분 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 엘비의 편집에 관한 문제가 논의되고 있다면, 나는 엘비의 이 불행한 논평에 관심을 끌 수 있을 것이다. 엘비는 저작권에 대한 이해나 존중의 부족을 우려한다.FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 22:01, 2016년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

코멘트: 나는 미등록된 편집자지만, 여기서 나의 논평이 "위키피디아 - 누구나 편집할 수 있는 백과사전"으로 받아들여지기를 바란다.작년에, 다른 IP 편집자들 중에서도, 나는 사용자와의 소위 '콘텐츠 전쟁'에 관여했다.카를로스 카스타네다 페이지의 엘비.나와 다른 사람들은 거기에서 잘못된 정보와 거짓 참조를 편집하려고 했고, 또한 카스타네다의 개인사와 일부 비평가들에 대해 밝혀진 새로운 정보를 올리기 위해 노력했다. 단지 사용자:Elvey는 뚜렷한 POV 편향으로 계속 되돌아간다.내 생각에, 나는 위키 절차를 따라 편지에 따라 TalkPage의 편집 요약 및 요약 편집에서 편집한 내용을 설명하고 편집하기 전에 실사를 기다렸으며, 오직 User:엘베이는 임의적이고 교란적으로 모든 편집을 되돌리는 한편, 나와 다른 사람들을 '반달리즘'과 혼란을 고발한다.이 모든 것의 정점은 사용자:엘비(Elvey)와 사용자:시이(지금의 비활성)는 카를로스 카스타네다 페이지에 대해 1년간 IP 편집자 금지를 가까스로 시행했다.모든 증거는 카를로스 카스타네다 페이지와 토크 페이지에 있고 나는 책임 있는 편집자가 내가 개략적으로 설명한 이 역사를 보고 금지령을 되돌릴 것이라고 생각하고 싶다.시간 내 주셔서 감사합니다80.44.144.26 (대화) 23:20, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

연결 추가.~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 22:22, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[답글]

계속

  • 1월 14일 관찰 Jytdog는 내가 지금 어떤 조치도 취하지 않고 있다는 것을 상기시켜 주었다고 썼다.그리고 나서 위에 COI와 관련이 없는 2개의 토크 페이지 항목을 인용하고 나서 ANI에 조치를 취했다.엘비는 이 댓글들 중 1개에 인용문을 올렸지만, 그것은 선정적이었다.나는 엘비가 COI 문제에 다시 관여하기 전에 2주 후에 자신의 항소를 기다려야 한다고 제안한다. 그 중에는 선정적인 코멘트도 포함된다.위키피디아는 중립성이 매우 중요하고 COI 편집의 이력을 감안할 때 회의적인 편집자가 중요하다.또한 적어도 나에게는 토크 페이지 논평이 금지의 일부인지 확실하지 않다.아마도 이것은 혼란을 줄이기 위해 명확해질 수 있을 것이다.나는 또한 트립토피쉬가 관련 주제에서 자유분방한 편집자가 아니며 항상 Jytdog를 옹호한다는 것을 주목한다.제안은 Jytdogs가 경고한 후 실마리를 닫는다. 프로카리오테 (대화) 18:44, 2016년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
프로카리오테스, 너는 내가 설명한 문제를 설명하고 있다.그리고 아니, 나는 항상 다른 편집자를 옹호하지도 않고, 항상 POV 토론에서 반대 입장을 취하는 편집자들을 비판하지도 않는다.그러나 너의 논평은 내가 말한 것을 신용하지 못하게 함으로써 내가 묘사했던 방식대로 나를 분명히 내팽개쳐 놓았다.사실, 이제 우리가 이 주제에 대해 논하고 있는 이상, 이 ANI 실의 윗부분에서, 한 관리자가 정말로 관여하지 않은 "인볼루션"이라고 불렸다는 것을 지적하고자 한다.같은 문제, 해결되지 않는 문제. --Tryptofish (대화) 18:51, 2016년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
Procaryotes, 첫 번째 DIF에서 나는 경고 후 활동에 대해 글을 올렸다. 엘베이는 내가 무언가를 인정하지 않는 것에 대해 쓴 다음, "남자가 무언가를 이해하도록 하는 것은 어렵다, 그의 급여가 그것을 이해하지 못하는 것에 달려 있을 때"라는 인용구를 추가했다. 이것은 유료 편집에 대한 언급이다.나는 이미 다른 dif들이 이해충돌과 어떤 관련이 있는지 분명히 했다.네가 difs를 잘못 전달했어.Jytdog (대화)20:11, 2016년 1월 20 (UTC)[응답]
  • 쪽지 한 장만지난 ANI에서 COI로부터 TBAN을 이끌어냈던 처럼 엘비는 자신의 기여에 따라 (특수별 도플갱어 계정으로 이 이상한 약간의 활동이 있기는 하지만:기부금/엘비질라).드라마가 부족한 것은 고맙지만 이 문제는 종결될 필요가 있다고마워요.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 22일 19:46 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 나는 엘비질라 활동이 다른 사용자의 토크 페이지(본 계정에서 주의를 나쁘게 비껴가기 위해 투명한 "질라" 대체 계정을 사용하는 것)의 사본처럼 보이기 때문에 가능한 공격/연구 페이지처럼 보이는 것이 걱정된다.알렉스브렌에게 전화를 걸어 MfD로 갈 거야이것은 관리자들이 주목했으면 하는 또 다른 걱정거리다. --Tryptofish (대화) 21:29, 2016년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]

코멘트 나는 현재 공용 컴퓨터에 있고 내 계정에 접근할 수 없다.지난 11월에 나는 엘비가 스스로 정한 2달간의 휴식 후 즉시 그들의 금지에 반대하는 편집으로 돌아갔다는 것을 알아차렸다.나는 여기 내 사용자 공간에서 ANI 제안 초안을 작성했다.내가 집에 있는 컴퓨터로 돌아가면 코멘트를.나는 또한 그 당시 해설과 함께 나의 샌드박스에서 이 토론으로 연결되는 링크들을 가져올 것이다.--75.132.99.164 (대화) 01:52, 2016년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]을 통해 아담 in MO

  • 설명:나는 30분 동안 독서를 했지만, 여전히 처음 금지된 이유를 알 수 없고, 그것은 나에게 과민반응이라는 인상을 준다.어쨌든, 나는 이것을 어떻게 생각해야 할지 잘 모르겠지만, 이 불가해한 사건을 계속 지켜보고 이해하려고 노력한다.간단히 말해 무엇에 관한 것인가?어디 요약이 있나?SageRad (토크) 12:28, 2016년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
Elby가 COI 이슈에 대해 여기 있는 다른 편집자들과 교란적으로 교류하고 있었기 때문에 나는 (내 OP에서 연계된) initial case를 가져왔다.나는 주제 금지를 요구했고 그는 더 심각한 제재의 손아귀에 들 정도로 행동했지만, 그는 그것을 벗어났다.Jytdog (토크) 07:14, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]

프로포즈

나는 다음과 같은 결의안을 제안한다.

  • 엘비는 COI에 대한 비난은 확실한 증거에 의해 뒷받침되어야 하며, 그러한 증거가 없는 상태에서 COI에 대한 거듭된 비난은 미개하고 용납할 수 없다는 것을 상기한다."pharma shill gambit"은 위키피디아에 설 자리가 없다.COI에 대한 향후 고발은 해당 게시판에서 이루어져야 한다. WP:코인은 신뢰할 수 있는 증거에 의해 뒷받침되어야 하며, 증거에 중대한 변화가 없는 한 기각될 경우 반복되어서는 안 된다.가이 (도움말!) 2016년 1월 24일 23:31 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 와 싸운다. 하지만 댓글을 달아줘서 고마워!바람이 여기서 휘파람을 불고 있어......엘비는 이미 COI 문제에 있어서 교란적으로 행동한 것에 대해 지역사회에 의해 TBANNE을 받았고, 그는 부적절하게 행동하면서도 더 많이 행동하면서 바로 그 곳으로 돌아갔다.이에 대한 당신의 제안은 TBAN을 더 약한 것으로 대체하고...그게 우리가 여기서 하는 일들과 어떻게 일치하는지 알아?아니면 원래 TBAN이 부적절했다고 생각하는가?이것들은 진짜 질문이다.Jytdog (토크) 07:17, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
미안한데, 그건 끔찍한 생각이야우리는 더 강한 행동을 향해 나아갈 필요가 있다.여기서 공동체 금지가 필요하다.TBAN에게 이빨을 주지 않을 거면 왜 이빨을 가지고 있지?엘비는 COI Tban을 여러 번 거쳤으며, 여기서 지역 사회의 실패는 더 파괴적인 행동을 지지할 것이다.--아담은 2016년 1월 25일 MO Talk 11:56, (UTC)[응답]
한 걸음 뒤로 물러서서 반대하라. --Tryptofish (토크) 20:57, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 불충분하다.이 토론은 특정 주제 금지(re COI)의 위반으로 인해 발생했지만, TBAN에서 언급된 일반적인 문제는 복잡하고, 본 토론에서 언급된 바와 같이 서버 주제 전반에 걸친 일반적인 행동이다.만약 엘비가 적절한 행동을 상기시키는 것만 필요하다면 몇 마디로 충분할 것이다.단순히 상기시켜주는 것 이상으로 문제가 심각하다는 것을 보여주지 않았다는 것. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (토크) 23:07, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
반대 사용자들은 기존의 지역사회 제재를 명백히 위반하고 있다.제진(토크) 23:30, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 나중에 편집한 글과 그 글에 대한 코멘트에도 불구하고 SlimVirgin의 코멘트에도 불구하고?그녀는 네가 말하는 것과 전혀 다르다고 말하는데, 어떻게 그게 "분명"하지?트립토피쉬가 그랬듯이, 당신은 나쁜 믿음을 가정하고 내가 믿을 수 없다고 말하는 것을 고집한다. 즉, 내가 거짓말을 하고 있는 것인가? --Elvey(tc) 21:22, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 "모르고 안다고 주장할 수 없다" [50], [51] 당신이 거짓말을 하고 있는지 여부.그러나 만일 내가 그 구절을 한 줄기에 두 번 반복한다면, 연속적인 회답으로, 단지 당신이 거짓말을 하고 있는 것이 아닌가 하는 질문에 주의를 환기시키는 것만으로 내가 당신을 거짓말쟁이라고 부르는 것처럼 보일지도 모른다.나는 네가 그것을 그렇게 해석하는 것이 정당하다고 생각한다.그러나 SlimVirgin과 Drmies는 동의하지 않을 수도 있다.마찬가지로 몬산토가 세 번의 연속된 회답에 깊은 주머니를 가지고 있다는 사실에 주목함으로써, 표면적으로 그들의 이익을 보호하고 있는 편집자를 언급한 직후, [52], [53], 멋진 녹색으로 강조하여, 특히 그 에디가 왜 그 에디인지에 대해 어떤 종류의 미스터리라는 진술로 그것을 콕 집어 넣었다.토르가 누군가의 이익을 보호한다고 생각하는데, 확실히 네가 그 편집자를 실이라고 부르는 것 같구나.이건 자네 쪽 사고일 수도 있어아마도 그 특정한 키 스트로크가 어떤 식으로든 진정되고 있는 것 같다.이 '깊은 주머니'라는 것이 내가 결코 감상할 수 없는 어떤 틱스나 강박관념이나 시 같은 것일 수도 있다.어쨌든.나는 또한 왜 관리자들이 내가 여기서 지적하고 있는 것을 보지 않는지 모르겠다.내가 보고 있는 것은 알지만, 할 수 있는 일은 그것을 지적한 다음, 그것이 견인되지 않으면 그것에 대해 입을 다물어 버리는 것뿐입니다.제진(대화) 03:28, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

기록에 의하면 COI에 대한 비난은 확실한 증거에 의해 뒷받침되어야 하며, 그러한 증거가 없는 상태에서 COI에 대한 거듭된 비난은 미개하고 용납할 수 없다고 생각한다.COI에 대한 향후의 모든 비난은 신뢰할 수 있는 증거에 의해 뒷받침되어야 하며, 증거에 중대한 변화가 없는 한 기각되더라도 반복되어서는 안 된다.코인의 효과와 공평성을 저해하는 이슈가 없다고 주장하는 사람은 아무도 없다.--Elvey(tc) 21:22, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

프로펠러리오테(대화) 22:15, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

제안 2

  • 제안 엘비는 그들의 COI 관련 편집에 관한 커뮤니티의 합의를 따르지 않은 것에 대해 표준 제안과 함께 3개월 동안 커뮤니티가 금지된다.COI에 대한 지속적인 금지 외에도, Elby는 대체로 SPI 관련 토론에 참여하는 것이 금지되어 있다.엘비는 6개월 후 지역사회에 돌아와 TBAN이 해제될 수 있도록 그들의 주장을 펼칠 수 있다.--아담 in MO Talk 11:56, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지하다.확실히, 나는 이것이 3개월 동안 커뮤니티에 의해 부과된 사이트 금지라고 이해한다. COI와 SPI 둘 다에 대한 주제 금지(SPA가 아닌 SPI를 의미한다고 가정함)는 두 가지 모두 광범위하게 해석되었으며, 6개월 이상 후에 주제 금지 사항에 대해 이의를 제기할 수 있는 선택권이 있다.이전 커뮤니티 주제 금지와 후속 행동의 맥락에서 적절한 대응이며, 나머지는 평화적 편집으로 돌아가도록 하는 데 필요한 조치라고 믿는다. --Tryptofish (대화) 20:56, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 SPI에 제안서를 수정했다.내 잘못이다.잘 잡았다.건배. --Adam in MO Talk 17:59, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[답글]
  • 지원. ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 23:10, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다음 단계를 지원하십시오.제진(토크) 23:25, 2016년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 - 현재 제재의 명확한 위반에 대한 합당한 조치.2016년 1월 25일(UTC) 오노잇츠재미 23:30[응답]
내가 나중에 편집한 글과 그 글에 대한 코멘트에도 불구하고 SlimVirgin의 코멘트에도 불구하고?그녀는 네가 말하는 것과 전혀 다르다고 말하는데, 어떻게 그게 "분명"하지?트립토피쉬가 그랬듯이, 당신은 나쁜 믿음을 가정하고 내가 믿을 수 없다고 말하는 것을 고집한다. 즉, 내가 거짓말을 하고 있는 것인가? --Elvey(tc) 21:22, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 OP이고, 나는 이것에 대해 괜찮다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 26일 15:25 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 금지되어 있는 동안 적절한 대응을 하는 것은 불가능하다.그러나, 나는 이 페이지에서 내가 작성한 COI 관련 편집에 대해 사과했다.Jytdog는 내가 그들을 인정하지도 않았다고 주장한다; 그것은 Jytdog의 긴 거짓 비난의 줄에서 또 다른 것이다. 그것은 매우 효과가 있는 것 같다.나는 COI 문제에 대한 나의 게시물에 대한 잘못된 증거 제시를 반대한다는 이유로 주로 금지되었다.따라서 이 사건의 증거의 결함에 반대하는 것은 어쨌든 결점과 상관없이 부질없거나 역효과적일 것 같다.이렇게 완벽한 폭풍우를 만나다니 불공평해.
나는 유권자들 J. 존슨(지진예측에서 그는 다른 편집자들과 매우 자주 충돌하고 있다), Jytdog, Adamfinmo, Tryptofish와 충돌한 이력이 있다.그들 중 일부는 정기적으로 서로 지원하거나 동일한 현상 유지 POV(모두 NPOV에 동의할 것임)를 위해 긴밀히 협력한다.
나는 SPI와 관련된 논의의 금지를 정당화하는 어떠한 논의도 광범위하게 해석되지 않는다고 본다.나는 그것이 불합리하다고 반대한다.SlimVirgin; 위 *** 참조.--Elvey(tc) 21:28, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 "우리가 정기적으로 서로 부축하기 위해 긴밀히 협력한다"고 말할 때, 당신은 단지 당신을 여기에 데려온 행동을 계속하고 있을 뿐이다.편집자들은 실제로 조율된 방식으로 편집하지 않고도 서로 동의할 수 있다. --Tryptofish (대화) 21:38, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]


엘비는 확실히 갈등의 역사를 가지고 있다; 그것이 우리가 여기에 있는 이유다.우리 중 몇 명이라는 그의 진술(정확히 누가?)"통상적으로 서로를 지원하기 위해 긴밀히 협력한다"는 것은 거짓일 뿐만 아니라, 그가 위치보다는 편집자를 공격한 곳을 보여주는 대표적인 예일 뿐 아니라 WP의 명백한 위반이다.AGF ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 23:43, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 나는 당신이 정기적으로 다른 사용자들을 지원하기 위해 긴밀하게 일한다고 생각하지 않았고 말하지 않았다. 하지만 더 명확할 수도 있었다.는 네가 지진예측에서 다른 편집자들과 자주 충돌한다고 말했다.
나는 이 세 명의 사용자들이 그 오타를 둘러싸고 있는 "일부"와 "또는"이라는 단어를 무시하는 방식을 좀 더 자세히 알아봐 줄 것을 부탁한다.문맥상 문제, 그렇다, 더 명확해질 수 있었다. --Elvey(tc) 17:13, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 네가 더 똑똑할 수도 있었지만, 넌 그렇지 않았어. 난 그게 고의적이었다고 생각해.거짓 진술을 하는 것을 피하기 위해 당신은 내가 속임수에 해당하는 어떤 카발 소속이라는 을 암시한다.만약 당신이 TBAN 위반의 혐의에 대한 당신의 변호의 일부가 당신이 카발로부터 억압당하고 있다는 것이라면 당신은 부정적으로 질식하는 것이 아니라 특정한 증거(확산 등)를 제공할 필요가 있다.BTW, 어떤 "오류"를 언급하고 있는가?트립토피쉬와 나 둘 다 위의 약 6줄의 당신의 말을 정확히 인용한다. ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 23:20, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 반대하라. 이 제안은 혼란을 가중시킨다.Jytdog의 제안에 따라 Elby가 주제 금지를 당한 2015년 8월 토론회를 읽어보려 했지만, 이해할 수 없다.(핑 드라이즈, 폐간)Elby는 WP에 대한 위키피디아 토론에서 금지된 것으로 보인다.COI. 이제 Jytdog가 돌아와서 엘비가 주제 금지령을 위반했다고 주장하기 때문에 전면 금지를 요청했다.그러나 그는 제약업계 등에서 COI에 도전한 의사들에 대한 기사 편집이 금지되지 않았는데, 이런 기사들은 그에게 불리하게 이용되고 있는 것으로 보인다.그리고 금지를 지지하기 위해 인용되고 있는 이 논평은 모호하다; 나는 그것을 COI 고발로 읽지 않는다.코멘트가 모호할 때, 우리는 위키피디아에서 누군가를 금지하는데 그것에 의존해서는 안 된다.사라SV 21:56, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서의 제안은 Jytdog가 제안한 것이 아니므로 그를 문제 삼지 말아야 한다.필자는 이러한 논의에서 글리포세이트의 논평에 대해 모호한 것이 없었다는 데 대해 상당히 강한 공감대가 형성되어 있는 것으로 본다.예술적인, 아마도, 그러나 아주 분명히 좋은 편집자인 Boghog를 ArbCom이 말한 것처럼 그리려고 의도한 것은 받아들일 수 없다.그런 지적에 대해 반대의견을 갖고 있다면 괜찮지만, 반대의견이다. --Tryptofish (토크) 22:07, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
Jytdog는 실을 열고 여기서 6개월의 금지를 제안했다.그것이 뒷받침되지 않자, 다른 누군가가 대신 3개월의 금지를 제안했다.그러나 엘비가 금지되어야 한다는 것은, 엘비가 지금 위반했다고 여겨지는 8월의 주제 금지법이 그랬던 것처럼, Jytdog에서 비롯되었다.더 좋은 해결책은, 만일 하나가 필요하다면, 간단히 엘비와 지독에게 서로 피하라고 하는 것일지도 모른다.사라SV 22:41, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
엘비에게 TBAN을 지키라고 하지 않았어?나는 엘비가 그들의 tban을 통해 불어오는 것을 거의 6개 제공했다.그들에게 규칙을 따르라고 요구하는 것은 효과가 없다.지역사회의 공감대에 이를 주고 엘비가 다른 곳에서 힐링을 잠시나마 식힐 수 있도록 해야 할 때다.--아담 in MO Talk 00:57, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
SlimVirgin, 난 내가 닫은 ANI 실에 대해 별로 의견을 갖고 있지 않아. 그냥 내 일을 하는 거지.하지만, 나는 Talk에 대한 한가지 논평이 다음과 같다는 것에 동의한다.글리포세이트는 그렇게 명확하지 않다.아담의 MO에 있는 게시물에는 아래에 더 많은 차이점들이 나열되어 있는데, 나도 거기에 그것을 보지 못한다.확장된 맥락에서 위반이 있을 수도 있지만, 그건 나에겐 너무 연장된 거야.COI 템플릿 편집에서 위반사항이 보이긴 하지만, 10월에 나온 거라서 편집자에게 경고 받았어.드레이미스 (토크) 01:39, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
드레이미스, 답장 고마워.만약 우리가 그가 경고를 받은 10월부터의 차이점을 무시한다면, 우리는 가 데이비드 힐리(정신과 전문의)를 편집한 것으로 남겨질 것이고, 나는 메인 스페이스 편집이 금지 주제에 포함되지 않는다고 믿는다 – 그리고 논쟁의 여지가 있는, 애매하고, 차이점이라고 말할 것이다.또한 아담핀모, 당신은 최근에 엘비에게 꽤 집중한 것 같은데 엘비는 그것에 대해 잘 반응하지 않는다.그의 반응은 더 많은 관심을 끌며, 기타 등등, 그리고 우리는 여기에 있다.엘비와 그와 논쟁을 벌이고 있는 편집자들이 그들의 상호작용을 최소화할 수 있다면, 그것이 필요한 전부일 것이다.사라SV 02:24, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
@Drmies:최근에 내가 언젠가 GMO-2를 발견하게 될 것이라고 말한 것을 기억할 것이다.일이 그렇게까지 진행되지 않도록 노력합시다.내가 올린 차이점에 대해 얼마나 많이 읽었는지 모르겠지만, 제발 내가 이걸 읽어볼 수 있게 해줘: "드라이스, 너, 읽기 능력이 형편없을 거야. 단지 우리가 주머니가 두둑한 대기업에 질타를 하고 싶다고 엘비를 용서해서는 안 되기 때문이지." 그래, 사실 그런 뜻이 아니라, 내가 올린 차이점을 다시 한번 살펴보도록 해.그 점을 염두에 둔 것. --Tryptofish (대화) 18:47, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 네가 전에 준 차이점을 살펴봤는데, 많은 차이점들이 있지만, 그것은 단지 하나의 토론일 뿐이다.나는 당신이 나에게 무엇을 보길 원하는지 보지 않는다. 그것은 주제 금지 위반이다.또한, 나는 당신의 가상적인 모욕에 대해 정말로 말할 수 없다. 나에게 너무 복잡하다.엘비에게 벌을 주고 싶은 이유, 즉 경솔함, 여기저기서 서투른 형량, 특정 전 편집자에 대한 집착 등이 있지만, 나는 이 특정한 혐의에 대한 증거를 보지 못한다.게다가 ArbCom이 이것저것 처리해야 하는 것을 막는 방법은 편집자를 금지하지 않는 것이다.만약 엘비의 행동이 그들과 함께 일하거나 하는 것을 불가능하게 만든다는 공감대가 있다면, 그것을 제안하라. 하지만 나는 글리포세이트 토론에서 주제 금지가 위반되었다는 증거를 볼 수 없다. (그런데, 그것은 벌레 속의 모공처럼 행동하는 편집자가 부족하지 않다.)Drmies (토크) 2016년 1월 27일 19:51 (UTC)[응답]
Drmies 나는 당신이 쓴 글이 꽤 혼란스럽다. Elvey는 그것이 부과된 이후 계속해서 그의 주제 금지를 위반했기 때문이다.나는 그가 그것을 위반하는 것을 보았을 때 그의 TBAN이 생각났고 그것이 내가 다른 사람들을 찾으러 가도록 만들었다.나는 이것을 전에 게시한 적이 없지만, 나의 경고에 대한 그의 반응은 전형적이었다. 그는 기본적으로 내가 쓴 것을 복사/붙여넣고 내 TBAN에 관해서 나에게 되받아쳤다.그가 (11월에 돌아오기 전 행정관으로부터 경고를 받았기 때문에) 나의 주의를 환기시키고 WP에서 COI 관련 문제를 계속 다루었을 때 나는 10월로 거슬러 올라가서 이 사례를 제시했다.그는 분명히 정기적으로 TBAN을 날려버렸고, 더 최근에는 (엘베이가 COI에 의해 편집되었다고 확신한) 양말 편집자 추격이 SPI의 상황을 너무 혼란스럽게 해서, 엘베이는 반자게니제로부터 더 이상 참여하지 못하게 되었다.엘비의 COI 문제들에 대한 지속적인 혼란과 TBAN을 무시한 그의 무시는 너무나 명백하다...Jytdog (대화)20:08, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 혼란스러움을 이해할 수 없다.트립토피쉬는 나에게 몇 가지 다른 점을 보라고 했고, 나는 그렇게 했다.나는 그 차이점들에 대해 아무런 위반도 없다고 본다.그들이 당신에게 당신의 고발을 다시 던지는 것은 무례한 것일 수도 있고, 어쩌면 그것이 적절할지도 모른다. 하지만 그것은 이 특정한 주제 금지를 위반하는 것은 아니다.자, 너희 모두 날 이 일에서 빼내라.덧붙일 것도 없고, 이런 대화들에 대해서도 잘 모르고, 아담의 엘비(Elby)를 알지 못한다(물론 미주리 주의 아담의 엘비(Elby)는 확실하다고 생각한다.네가 설득할 필요가 있는 것은 내가 아니다; 다른 편집자들이다. 그리고 너는 깊은 돈에 대한 다소 애매한 논평보다 더 강한 차이점이 필요할 것이다.드레이미스 (토크) 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC) 20:25[응답]
네가 내가 보는 것을 보지 못한다고 말한 후에 그냥 넘어가려고 했는데, 이게 너를 설득하는 것이 아니라는 것에 동의해. (그리고 내가 벌레 해부학에 대해 그런 것을 파문한 것 같아.)위키피디아의 경우 힘든 점이 있다. 우리 중 한 명은 하루처럼 평범한 것을 본다고 느낄 수 있고, 다른 누군가는 전혀 보지 못한다.커뮤니티 주제 금지가 아니라 ArbCom의 DS에 대해 이야기 했었습니다. 이것을 보십시오.하지만 누가 뭐래도 분명히 해 줄 수 있는 사람을 위해, 여기 나의 사이비 어설트가 전달하고자 했던 것이 있다: 엘비는 ArbCom이 DS를 부과한 페이지에서 나와 다른 편집자들이 단순한 읽기 이해력이 부족하다고 반복해서 외쳤다. COI에 TBAN에 관한 어떤 것도 제쳐두고, 우리는 정말로 그런 종류의 편집 환경을 원하는가?내가 한 말이나 보호가 한 말이 그 말을 정당화시킨 것일까?그것을 "경솔함"으로 치부하는 것은 절제된 표현이다.그리고 내가 방금 ArbCom 링크에 따라 "주머니가 두둑한 회사를 보호하는 것"이 편집자 이외의 어떤 의미인지 상상할 수 없다.편집자들은 편집판단 때문에 주머니가 두둑한 회사를 보호하는가?아마도 누군가가 부정확한 부정적인 자료로부터 기업을 보호할 수도 있겠지만, "깊은 주머니"라는 것은 분명히 이것이 유료 편집이라고 생각하라는 호소일 것이다.지금 일어나고 있는 일은 GMO-1로부터 편집자가 몬산토에서 일하고 있다는 사실을 노골적으로 말하지 않는 것을 배웠기 때문에, 그들이 좀더 모호하게 말하면 드레이우스 같은 사람들은 그것을 얻지 못할 것이라는 것을 교묘하게 알아냈다.그러나 그것은 분명히 일어난 일이다.그리고 반드시 싹을 잘라내기를 바란다. --Tryptofish (토크) 20:52, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇구나. 드레이즈는 처음부터 사건을 검토하지 않았어.이제 말이 되네.Jytdog (대화) 03:50, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 정답:나는 내가 무엇을 보라고 요구받았다고 생각하는지 살펴보았다.물론 "적폐"에 대한 당신의 요점을 알겠지만, 애매모호한 것은, 기업들이 깊은 주머니를 가지고 있다는 것은 비밀이 아니지만, COI의 주장은 누가 주머니를 가지고 있는지 또는 얼마나 깊은지에 대한 것이 아니라, 누가 특정 주머니에서 나온다고 알려진 것을 받는가에 대한 것이어야 한다.그리고 나는 이런 경우에 그런 구절에 가혹한 형벌을 가하는 것을 싫어한다.다시 말하지만, 나는 그 좌절감을 어느 정도 이해하고 있고, 어떤 종류의 제한이 필요한 것은 전적으로 가능하지만, 나는 이 범죄에 대해 이런 제한을 가할 수는 없다.드레이미스 (토크) 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC) 17시 50분[응답]
Drmies를 명확히 해줘서 고마워.만약 네가 원한다면 위에서 검토해주면 고맙겠다. 그리고 트립토가 하는 말이 더 이해가 될 것 같아.네가 원하지 않아도 그 부탁을 들어줘서 고마워.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 29일 18:54 (UTC)[응답]
이것을 멀리서 보고 있노라면 드라이즈로부터 이런 정서를 듣게 되어 기쁘다.COI에 대한 구체적인 고발과 함께, 어딘가에 산업 의제가 있을 수 있다는 일반적인 언급은 별개다.그러나 기사 내용에 대한 대화 과정에서 시간이 지남에 따라 기사의 형태와 궤적에 대한 일반적인 언급을 제외하고는 둘 중 어느 쪽도 설 자리가 없다고 생각한다.또한, "활동가"들이 의제를 놓고 일하고 있다고 말하는 것도 마찬가지일 것이다. 이러한 종류의 비난과 비난은 분명히 양방향으로 진행되기 때문이다.고발이 돈과 관련되든 아니든, 그것은 여전히 훌륭한 백과사전 작품 이외의 동기를 언급하고 있다.SageRad (대화) 2016년 1월 29일 19:01, (UTC)[응답]
  • Jytdog, Tryptofish, 나는 1월 초순부터 세 번 정도 편집한 것에 문제가 있다고 본다.나는 힐리 편집이 위반이라는 것에 동의하지 않으며, 나는 이 편집과 이 편집의 문제를 보지 않는다.드레이미스 (토크) 2016년 1월 29일 19:23 (UTC)[응답]
드레이미스, 더 많은 맥락을 제공하도록 노력할게.
우선 엘비의 주제 금지에 대한 관점에 주목해 봅시다.

그리고 Jytdog는 내가 정책이 말한 것을 계속 정확하게 묘사했기 때문에 나를 금지시켰고, 내가 그것을 하지 않기를 바라는 사람들은 그것을 방해라고 불렀다.

그래서 그의 견해로는 그는 아무 잘못도 하지 않았다.그래서 그는 TBAN을 무시한 것 같아.
그의 TBAN 위반의 한 집합(전부는 아님)은 그가 이전의 98이 "파르마 실"이라고 생각하기 때문에 발생한다.(이전의 98은 더 이상 WP 외적인 이유로 여기서 편집하지 않고, 그가 여기 있을 수 있는 능력에 영향을 끼쳐 "바니쉬"로 그를 이끌게 했다) 엘비는 그의 사기꾼에 의해 구동되어 과거에 대해 격렬하게 SPI를 추구했다.이전에 (그리고 나는) 제약회사였던 승리.Elby는 SPI: dif에서 COI 문제를 분명히 제기했다.위에서 연결한 것처럼 엘베이는 SPI를 맹렬히 추격하여 반자게니제의 수사에서 제지를 받았다.엘비가 파행적으로 된 논의는 대부분 SPI의 토크 페이지, 여기 있다.
  • SPI에서 그는 자신이 제약회사 실과 싸우면서 움직인다는 것을 분명히 말하는데, WP에서는 COI에 관한 모든 것이다.
  • SlimVirgin's Talk 페이지에 다시 한 번 다음과 같이 썼다.

    여기서 더 큰 그림이 뭐야?그것은 여러분이 이미 언급한 바와 같이, 카발사가 "필요한 모든 수단"이라고 자비롭게 묘사될 수 있는 것으로 거대 제약사를 방어하기 위해 전쟁을 벌이는 것에 관한 것이다.이 매우 중요한 주제에 대한 믿을 수 있는 많은 언론 보도에도 불구하고 믿을 수 없을 정도로 형편없는 PARADILE-HF 재판에 대한 정보를 얻으려면 많은 사용자와 수개월의 편집 전쟁이 필요했다.

  • 그리고 그것은 당신이 관련이 없다고 말한 첫번째 diff로 이어지며, 그가 다음과 같이 썼다.

    나는 방금 Jytdog가 추가한 홍보물을 제거했다.

    PARADILE-HF 재판은 큰 뉴스가 되었고, 결국 발사르탄/사쿠비트릴을 마약으로 승인하는 데 사용되었던 재판이다.그 재판의 설계에 대해 ~ 일부~ 논란이 있었고, 반약마여단은 그 약물에 대한 WP 기사에서 이를 크게 다루려 했다.예전에 내가 그걸 꾹꾹 눌러놨어.Elby는 나중에 Talk 페이지에 "이것은 광고처럼 읽힌다. 그러나 그것은 매우 논란이 많은 약물을 위한 것이다. -그것은 Talk 페이지에 있는 유일한 것이다.그리고 당신은 엘베이가 제약회사 실(즉, WP에서의 COI 편집)을 추구하고 있다는 것을 알 수 있다.그래서 그것이 첫번째 dif에 관한 것이다.btw 내가 추가한 자료는 엘베이가 '프로모션'이라고 부른 것은 제약회사들의 행동에 대한 맹렬한 비평가 스티븐 니센의 말을 인용한 것으로, 그는 이 약이 "진실로 획기적인 접근법"이며 그 승인이 작년 심장학에서 가장 중요한 사건이라고 말했다.
  • 번째 차이점에 대해서, 그는 거기에 썼다.

    Jytdog가 당신이 연계한 토론에서, 뭐라도 인정하기를 완강히 거부했던 방식(이상하게도 그는 기사 토크를 통해 면죄부를 받았다!!!))는 그의 편집이 얼마나 극단적인지를 보여준다. ....월급을 이해하지 못하느냐에 따라 달라지는 판에 남자가 어떤 것을 이해하게 하기는 어렵다"고 말했다.
    — [사용자:업턴 싱클레어]]

    내가 여기에 쓴 글을 보면, 그가 내가 제약업계의 급여에 대해 유료 편집자라고 비난하는 것을 알 수 있는가?나는 그것이 어떻게 그의 TBAN 안에 있지 않은지 보려고 애쓴다.
  • 힐리에 대해서...그것은 논쟁의 여지가 있다.엘비의 TBAN은 COI를 위한 것으로, 대체로 해석된다.힐리는 항상 의학에서 COI에 대해 쓰고, 그것이 SSRI가 여전히 시장에 나오는 이유라고 생각한다.엘비가 힐리 기사에 편집한 것은 힐리가 의학에서의 COI에 대해 쓴 "봄셸"(그의 말) 기사를 추가하고 있었다.그가 지난 한 달 동안 WP에서 집중한 정확한 내용.내가 보기에 그것은 모두 한 조각이다.
  • 마지막으로, "SPA HealthMonitor에 의한 유료 옹호 편집" 섹션 머리글 아래에 역설적으로 언급된, 엘비의 주제 금지에 대한 (많은 것 중) 무작위적인 설명이 있다.

    Jytdog - 늦은 핑.나는 당신이 지역사회가 공개적인 FCOI를 가지고 "그럴 수 없다"고 불어버린 SPA HealthMonitor에 대해 조치를 취하도록 할 수 없다고 장담한다.

지금은 상황이 전혀 달라 보이나?다시한번 감사합니다.Jytdog (토크) 08:20, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC) (주, 조금 덧붙인다.Jytdog (대화) 15:57, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라] 아무도 응답하지 않았기 때문에 REDACTing이 아니다.


반대 SPI 금지 이유 불분명한 이유, 경고 후 2개의 토크 페이지 코멘트에 대해 3개월 금지. 프로카리오테 (대화) 22:14, 2016년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
너는 숙제를 안 했구나.여기 TBAN을 위반하여 스스로 부과된 휴식으로부터 돌아온 엘비의 첫 번째 편집이 있다.여기 또 있다.같은 대화에서 세 번 째에요.그리고 나는 그들에게 경고했다.엘비 한 명이 을 이었다.Elvey가 그들의 TBAN이나 이 지역사회의 합의에 대해 전혀 개의치 않는다는 증거가 얼마나 필요한가? --Adam in MO Talk 00:52, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
위에 썼던 것처럼 2016년 1월 14일, 이것을 가지고 온 Jytdog가 E에게 경고를 했고, 이 후, 위에서 논의한 바와 같이 토크 페이지에서 두 개의 댓글을 보았다.이 일이 있은 후 나는 그가 계속했다는 것을 알지 못한다.원핵생물(대화) 02:35, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답하라]
내가 원래 포스트에 썼듯이, 엘비는 TBAN을 일찍 날려버렸고 멈추지 않았다 - 그가 TBAN과 관리인으로부터 경고를 받은 후, 그리고 내가 그에게 상기시킨 후, 심지어 몇 시간 까지도.그는 그것을 놓아줄 수 없다. 2016년 1월 27일 08시 12분 (UTC)[응답하라]
[redacted, redacted, 삭제된 콘텐츠의 외부 아카이브에 연결하지 마십시오. 여기서 COI에 대한 증거입니다]라는 가발도 있지만, SPI에서 조사해야 하는 것은 이 IP 편집도 참조하십시오.또한 나는 네가 연루되어 있는 것 같다는 것을 안다.원핵생물 (대화) 2016년 1월 27일 12시 29분 (UTC)[응답하라]
사실 여기에 관련된 사람들 중 많은 사람들이 관련 ANI/COI 사물에 관련된 사람들과 매우 같은 사람들이다. 프로카리오테스 (대화) 13:02, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
엘비의 행동과 이 제안에서 벗어난 주제.너는 그의 행동을 언급하고 있지 않다.물론 나는 부메랑의 대상이 된다. 만약 그것이 당신이 가고 싶은 곳이라면 위에서 언급해 주길 바란다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 27일 17:14 (UTC)[응답]
여기 있는 많은 사람들이 COI 행사장에서 와서는 안 되는 이유는 무엇인가?그것은 그의 가장 최근의 활동 영역이며 주제 금지가 어디에서 왔으며, 그곳의 사람들이 그 상황을 가장 잘 알고 있을 것으로 예상된다.(엘베이의 잦은 불만 중 하나가 마치 그와 어떤 종류의 부정적인 상호작용을 배제해야 하는 것처럼, 편집자와 행정가들에 의해 "부적절하다"는 판단을 받고 있다는 점에 주목한다.반면에, 나는 어떤 COI나 파람 주제에도 전혀 관여하지 않았다.내가 여기에 관여하는 것은 엘비의 전혀 다른 주제에서의 비슷한 행동에서 비롯된다.또한 # 관련 문제들, 카를로스 카스타네다에서의 유사한 행위를 주장하여 #하단에 있는 새로운 (23:20) 코멘트. ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 21:17, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
J. Johnson (JJ), 나는 그 페이지로 가서 뭘 알아맞혔다.2개의 IP가 이의를 제기한 으로 보이는 편집이 있다.그리고 나서 나중에 다른 편집자들에 의해 이의를 제기되지 않았고, 대화는 단지 짧을 뿐이며, 그 외에도 유효한 내용 추가가 되는 것으로 보인다.사람들이 여기에 연루되어 있고 비슷한 분쟁에 연루되어 있다는 것은 가장 중요한 관찰이다.갈등과 관여 정도 등을 고려할 때, 나는 자유 편집자의 판단을 더 중시한다. (대화) 22:34, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 어떤 사람이 "맞다"고 한다면 미개한 행동이 받아들여질 수 있을까?나는 카를로스 카스타네다에서의 내용 분쟁이나 관련 편집자들의 깨끗한 손아귀에 대해서는 어떤 입장도 갖고 있지 않지만, 토크 페이지에서는 엘비가 COI에서 그를 곤경에 빠뜨렸던 것과 같은 미개한 행동을 보인다는 점을 지적한다.나는 그의 논평 중 일부를 인용한다: "진짜 그냥 깨끗해진 것에 대한 놀라운 왜곡된 정당화"; "당신의 제거에 대한 변명의 여지가 없다 .... 그것이 얼마나 노골적인 편견의 예인가. 그렇게 노골적으로 말해줘서 고마워.";;; "무슨 부분을 이해하지 못하니?";;;; "난 네가 한 말을 하나도 믿지 않아. 기사나 샘슨에 대해서나 그리고 나는 그것을 검증하는 시간을 낭비하고 싶지 않아.";; 그리고 (반대) "정말 그냥 청소하는 것에 대한 놀라운 왜곡된 정당화."
당신의 입장은 완전히 "무책임한" 편집자들, 엘비와의 상호작용 없이, 불평의 근거도 없고, 따라서 여기에 있을 이유가 없는 반면, "무책임한" 편집자들은 (그의 견해에) 더럽혀지고, 들어서는 안 된다.여기 있는 대부분의 사람들이 그에게 따질 골이 있겠지만, 그것이 바로 중요한 점이다: 공동체는 그가 매우 악화되고 있다는 것을 발견한다. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (토크) 00:15, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 원핵동물들아.모든 잘못된 표현은 가까운 사람의 일을 훨씬 더 어렵게 하고 더 많은 시간을 소비하게 만든다.나는 그들의 위치가 부럽지 않다.나는 더 가까이에서 각 참가자가 제기한 비난의 정확성에 대해 말할 것을 요청한다. - 조사했을 때, 유효한 비난이 무효로 판명된 곳은 어디인가?이 전선에서 지지자와 반대파의 주장이 도전받고 있는 것으로 보인다. --Elvey(tc) 17:13, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
뭐가 잘못 알려졌지?그 인용문은 정확하고, 너의 논평은 미개하다.만약 당신이 그러한 언어를 정당화하는 어떤 맥락이 있다고 생각한다면 당신은 그것을 증명할 자유가 있지만 당신은 그렇지 않다.그리고 그것 없이는 당신은 단지 더 많은 연기를 내뿜고 있을 뿐이다. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (토크) 23:26, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]


  • 지지하다.위의 대화들은 심지어 주제가 금지되어 있는 동안에도 게시판에 계속해서 나쁜 행동을 하고 있다는 것을 보여준다.이런 일이 여러 주제에서 일어났다는 것이 핵심을 찌른다.글리포세이트 기사에서 지적된 사례에서, 그들의 행동은 또한 질식과 관련된 ArbCom 원칙의 정신에 위배된다.위키백과:중재/요청/사례/일반적으로_수정_기관#Casting_aspersion.그것과 관련이 없는 다른 주제의 이슈는 단지 이슈를 복잡하게 만들 뿐이다.Kingofaces43 (대화) 17:42, 2016년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 코멘트 나는 표준 오퍼와 함께 3개월 동안 금지된 단어 커뮤니티를 혼란스럽게 생각한다.두 가지로 해석할 수 있다.
  1. 사용자는 3개월 동안 사용이 금지된다.이 기간 동안 표준 오퍼를 수락하면 사용자가 즉시 금지를 해제할 수 있다.표준 오퍼가 받아들여지지 않을 경우, 사용자는 3개월이 지나면 자동으로 금지가 해제된다.
  2. 사용자는 무기한으로 금지된다.3개월의 기간이 지난 후, 표준 오퍼를 수락할 경우, 그는 금지 해제될 수 있다.
원래 주제 금지 조건이 불분명하다면, 이 토론에서 이러한 조건을 명확히 하는 것이 좋을 것이다. --Stefan2 (토크) 16:16, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
Stefan2, 1번 사건이 내 의도였어.엘비가 처음에 TBAN이었을 때, 그들은 2달 동안 자발적인 블록에 그들 자신을 두었다.이를 거울삼아 한 의도였다.--아담은 MO토크 16:23, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)-아담은 MO토크 16:23, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
표준 오퍼는 6개월 후 사용자가 "차단/차단 [d]으로 이어진 행동을 피하겠다고 약속하면 반환할 수 있으며, 반환에 반대할 특별한 이유를 만들지 않는다"는 것이다.6개월 기간은 조정할 수 있지만 3개월 금지 제안이라는 맥락에서 어떤 의미가 있을까.12시간이 지나도 피하겠다고 약속하는 등의 말을 한다면 과연 차단이 풀릴 수 있을까.그리고 그가 이미 그 말을 한 것을 볼 때, 그 금지는 아예 피할 수 없을까?
아담, 내가 보기에, 엘비가 "나는 t-ban을 위반할 의도가 아니라, 앞으로 그렇게 보이지 않도록 더 강력한 노력을 기울일 생각이었다"고 말한다면, 그리고 그와 논쟁하고 있는 편집자들이 그와 그들의 상호작용을 줄인다면, 아마도 모든 것이 잘 될 것이고, 우리는 이것을 끝낼 수 있을 것이다.사라SV 23:48, 2016년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
사라SV는 그의 과거 행동을 정확하게 표현하지 못할 것이다.그는 금지를 무시하고, COI 문제에 대해 명확하게 논의하고, 제기하고, COI 문제를 다루려고 노력했으며, 게다가 그렇게 하는 동안 SPI를 혼란시켰으며, COI 문제를 다룰 때의 혼란은 애초에 그를 금지시켰다.만약 그가 "나는 내가 여러 번 주제 금지를 위반했다는 것을 인정한다. 그리고 내가 COI에서 편집하고 있다고 확신하는 편집자를 차단하려고 애쓰다가 SPI를 방해했다는 것을 인정한다."와 같은 글을 쓴다면, 커뮤니티는 행동 없이 이것을 종결하는 것을 고려하고 싶을 것이다.나는 COI를 그 토론에 끌어들이지 말았어야 했다.나는 사과하고 앞으로 있을 COI 문제에 대해 매우 분명히 할 것이며, 만약 내가 나의 주제 금지를 다시 위반한다면 지역 사회가 조치를 취하는 것에 대해 논쟁하지 않을 것이다."그나저나 엘비를 구하지는 않는다. 엘비는 오랫동안 내 감시 목록에 있던 마약 기사들을 쫓아왔다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 29일 01:13 (UTC)[응답]
사라, 블록을 적용하거나 반대로 적용하는 것은 항상 관리자의 몫이다.엘비가 TBAN을 처음 받았을 때 그들은 스스로 정한 2개월 블록을 갔다.여기서 제안된 3개월은 그것을 반영하기 위한 비열한 것이었다.그들의 편집이 지역사회의 합의 내에서 유지되는 한, 나는 앞으로 엘비와 교류할 생각이 없다.그러한 합의는 Elvey가 COI 문제 근처 어디에서도 논의, 논평 또는 편집해서는 안 되며, SPI와 관련된 어떠한 논의에도 전혀 관여해서는 안 된다는 것으로 보인다.엘비는 편집에 능하다.그들은 논쟁의 여지가 있고 디테일에 대한 관심이 있어서 나는 좀 더 널리 활용되고 싶다.그러나 그들이 기꺼이 협력하고 논쟁적인 편집을 멈출 때까지는 그들의 잠재력을 최대한 활용할 수 없을 것이다.--Adam in MO Talk 15:24, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
Jytdog, 그는 SPI 동안 COI에 대해 언급하지 않았고(내가 기억하기로는), 실제로 IP 주소의 배후에 누가 있는지 처음에는 깨닫지 못했다.우려는 옹호 및 여러 계정/IP의 사용이었다.
아담, 자네 편집의 상당 부분이 엘비와 관련이 있는 것 같으니, 그런 상호작용을 줄이는 게 좋을 거야.예를 들어 클리어 얼라이너에서 엘비는 가격에 대한 섹션을 추가했는데 도움이 되었다.당신이 그 기사를 편집하지 않았음에도 불구하고, 당신은 그 직후에 도착해서 다른 사람들이 같은 이슈에 추가했던 섹션과 함께 그것을 제거했다.[54] (나도 그 페이지를 편집했기 때문에 이것을 알아차렸기 때문에 다른 예가 있을 수 있다.)만약 엘비가 자신을 쫓기는 것으로 본다면, 설령 그런 의도가 없더라도 그는 서투른 반응을 보일 것이고 우리는 곧 다시 이곳으로 돌아올 것이다.사라SV 21:01, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
사라: "만약 그와 논쟁 중인 편집자들이 그와 그들의 상호작용을 줄일 수 있다면, 아마도 모든 것이 될 것"이라는 당신의 제안도 다른 방식으로 진행되지 않니?즉, 왜 엘비에게 다른 사람과의 상호작용을 줄이지 않는가? ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 23:30, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
J. Johnson, 그래, 정말이지 양쪽 다 효과가 있다.엘비가 편집하고 있는 페이지에 사람들이 도착하는 것을 내가 살펴본 차이점들이 있지만, 엘비가 다른 사람들에게 같은 행동을 한다면, 그것 또한 멈춰야 한다.여기에 관련된 모든 사람들이 상호작용을 최소한으로 유지한다면 상황은 개선될 것이고, 그럼에도 불구하고 문제가 계속된다면 언제든지 다시 제기할 수 있다.SarahSV 01:09, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
일반적으로 다른 편집자에게 WP로 요금을 부과한다.기사 소유. ~ J. 존슨 (JJ) (토크) 00:56, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
Slimvirgin Elby는 이전(이전 내용을 방금 언급했지만, 이것이 무질서하게 퍼져나가면서 여기서 반복하고 있다)을 추구하면서 COI 문제를 제기했다.
  • diff. 저것은 완전히 틀렸다:

    이 사람은 은퇴한 박사 약사라고 주장해 왔으며, 최근에는 약사로서 약제 개발에서 (User_Talk:Vanjagenije에 의해) 일하고 있다고 주장해 왔지만, 현재 UCSF에서는, 그가 가끔 게시하는 IP 공간으로부터, 편집비를 받은 적이 없다고 주장해 왔으며, 제약 회사와 관련하여 COI가 없다.

    엘비의 초점은 그가 이전과 COI 이슈라고 믿는 것에 명백하다.
  • 이 dif에서 그는 WP에서 COI에 관한 모든 "pharma shill gambit"을 가져온다.
  • 그리고 여기 가 다음과 같이 썼던 당신의 토크 페이지에 다시 한 번 말하라.

    여기서 더 큰 그림이 뭐야?그것은 여러분이 이미 언급한 바와 같이, 카발사가 "필요한 모든 수단"이라고 자비롭게 묘사될 수 있는 것으로 거대 제약사를 방어하기 위해 전쟁을 벌이는 것에 관한 것이다.

    그것은 또한 COI에 관한 제약회사 실 갬빗이다.는 네가 SPI에서 썼던 것처럼 이전에 제약회사 실이었다는 것에 동의한다는 것을 알고 있다.하지만 당신은 COI 문제에서 금지된 주제가 아니다; Elby는 그렇다.Jytdog (대화) 08:26, 2016년 1월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • Jytdog, SPI에서 내가 걱정했던 것은 옹호하는 것과 세밀한 조사를 피하는 것의 결합이었다.COI가 배후에 있었는지는 모르겠지만("의 이익에 대한 편집"은 "의 이익을 위한"의 의미였다.)
엘비의 차이점에 대해서는, 2차나 3차에서 보는 것이 아니라, 1차 차이에서 보는 것이다.위키피디아와 COI에 대한 논의 금지가 있었다면 그것은 주제반 위반인 것 같다.사라SV 06:30, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
SV, 첫 번째 dif에서 TBAN 위반을 인정해줘서 고마워(그리고 그의 TBAN은 "COI, 대략적으로 해석된다)"검토해야 할 경우 닫힌 ANI(AnI)를 참조하십시오.내가 인용한 두 번째 dif는 널뛰기였다. 그리고 나는 관련 부분을 인용해야 했다. "

거대 제약회사에 비판적인 정보를 스크럽하는 것으로 악명 높은 양말, ...

"내가 보기에 "파마 실"의 주장을 분명하게 묘사한 2차, 3차 디프들은 엘비가 COI(제약업계의 임금으로) 밑에서 기사를 편집하고 있다고 믿는 편집자를 쫓고 있다는 것을 분명히 보여주고 있다.코멘트에 대해서, 어디에 썼는지.

이 사용자는 제약 산업의 이익을 편집하고, 계정과 IP를 교환하여 정밀 조사를 피한다.

....459번의 수정을 거쳤기 때문에 COI 가이드라인을 잘 알고 계신다.당신은 우리가 옹호하는 것과 COI의 차이를 잘 알고 있고, 당신이 거기서 사용하기로 선택한 언어는, 당신이 SPI에서 사람들을 설득하여 조치를 취하도록 시도했을 때, COI의 언어가 매우 많다.
내가 말했듯이, 당신은 COI에 대한 TBAN이 없기 때문에 그것을 해도 된다.그리고 어떤 경우에도 Elby와 의견을 공유하는 것은 Elby가 자신의 TBAN을 지속적으로 위반해왔고, 이전과 마찬가지로 그렇게 하는 데 지장을 초래했다는 사실과 관련하여 Elby가 이전에 다른 장소에서 WP를 해치고 있다는 당신의 판단에 영향을 주어서는 안 된다.
지역사회는 엘비가 COI 문제를 다룰 때 파괴적이 된다는 것을 발견했고 그가 COI 문제를 다루는 것을 자제할 수 없는 것처럼 보인다는 것이 명백해졌다.제안 2는 이런 상황에서 완전히 정상적이기 때문에 그의 행동을 실제로 보는 사람들의 의견이 그것을 지지하는 것이다.다시 한 번 생각해 보십시오.
COI를 잘 다루지 못하는 엘비와 같은 편집자들은 그들의 행동이 국내에서 COI를 더 잘 관리하려는 노력에 반대하는 지역사회의 사람들에게 더 많은 정보를 주기 때문에 WP에서 COI를 다루려는 전반적인 노력을 해친다.그것이 내가 이것에 신경을 쓰는 이유다.Jytdog (토크) 22:05, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
Jytdog, 제발 내가 무슨 생각을 하고 있는지, 내가 잘 알고 있는 것을 말하지 말아줘.만약 내가 그 편집자가 COI를 가지고 있다고 확신한다면 나는 그렇게 말할 것이다; 때때로 나는 그렇게 생각했고 그렇지 않을 때도 있었다.그리고 그것은 이 논의의 주제가 아니다.
Re: 엘비, 나는 그것을 근거로 3개월의 금지를 지지할 수 없어.엘비가 SPI를 열었을 때 편집의 배후에 누가 있는지 몰랐다는 것을 명심하라.엘비와의 문제는 그가 COI를 잘 다루지 않는다는 것이 아니다.자신이 제대로 다루지 못하고 있다고 느끼는 문제나, 자신이 집단 괴롭힘을 당하고 있다고 느끼는 부분에 대해서는 잘 대처하지 못한다는 것이다.SPI를 하는 동안 그는 그것이 SPI가 평상시처럼 처리되고 있지 않다고 생각하기 시작했고, 그의 의혹은 반복적인 게시물과 날카로운 소리로 이어졌다.그래서 나는 그가 논쟁을 다르게 다루는 법을 배울 필요가 있다는 것에 동의한다. 그렇게 화내지 말고, 그렇게 반복하지 말자.그러나 곧바로 3개월 금지로 가는 것은 무리야.통상적인 관행은 고조되는 일련의 블록이다.
그는 아래에 다음과 같이 썼다: "사과하고 앞으로 있을 COI 문제에 대해 매우 주의할 것이다."COI 문제에 대해서는 그 정도면 충분할 것이고, 그가 COI를 다시 언급한다면 주제반 위반은 명백할 것이다.그러나 명확히 밝혀야 할 것은 그것이 메인 스페이스에 적용되는가 하는 것이다.나는 그렇게 하거나 그래야 한다고 생각하지 않는다.이 문제를 종결하는 사람은 누구든지, 그를 금지하기 위한 것이 아니라고 가정할 때, 엘비에게 그가 매우 화가 나기 시작할 때, 또는 다른 사람들이 그의 게시물이 반복되고 있다고 말할 때, 토론에서 자신을 제거하는 연습을 하도록 요청하는 것을 고려할지도 모른다.사라SV 22:39, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
안녕 SV. 사건에 대한 메모에 따르면, 그는 이전 이름으로 개명한 계정 이름으로 SPI를 개설했다.2015년 12월 5일 22:38에서 여기를 참조하십시오.그의 공헌을 살펴보면, 그날 내내 그는 Valsartan/Sacubitril 기사와 그 토크 페이지에서 전쟁과 논쟁을 편집해 왔으며, 그날의 토크 페이지에서의 그의 마지막 편집은 여기서 다음과 같이 썼다.

좋아. 이제 로그인하고 여러 네트워크에서 여러 계정/IP 주소를 사용하는 등 정밀 조사를 피하는 것을 중지하십시오.

그는 누구를 쫓고 있는지 알고 있었다.엘비는 행동 문제가 더 광범위할 수 있지만, COI 문제를 다룰 때 특히 통제 불능/감정 불능이 되는 것 같은 포인트 이슈를 가지고 있다.그것이 우리가 원래 사건에서 TBANNED를 받은 이유와 그가 SPI에서 더 파괴적인 이유였다.나는 네가 그것에 대해 동의하지도 않고 치료법에도 동의하지 않는다는 것을 이해한다.그리고 내가 보기에 Elvey's TBAN은 위키백과별로 표준이다.금지_정책#토픽_반 -

"명확하고 명확하게 명시되지 않는 한 주제 금지는 주제와 광범위하게 관련된 모든 페이지(기사뿐만 아니라)뿐만 아니라 주제와 관련된 다른 페이지의 부분까지 포괄한다."

나는 그가 실제로 그의 TBAN의 범위를 좁히기 위해 무엇을 했는지, 그리고 왜 당신이 그것을 제안했는지 모르겠다.Jytdog (토크) 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC) 23:59 [응답]
나는 주제 변경 금지를 제안하는 것이 아니다.당신은 8월에 토픽-반 토론회를 열었다.당신은 엘베이가 위키피디아에서 COI에 대해 토론하는 것을 금지할 것을 요청했다. 당신은 또한 상호 작용 금지를 요청했다."엘베이는 공동체의 인내심을 고갈시켰고 COI에서 금지된 주제로서 대체로 이해되고 있다."라고 Drmies에 의해 토론이 종결되었다.Drmies는 이 토론에서 Healy 편집 내용을 위반으로 보지 않는다고 말했다.[55] 그가 메인 스페이스가 주제 금지의 일부가 아니라는 뜻인지, 아니면 그 특정한 편집이 문제가 되지 않는다는 뜻인지 모르겠다.나는 단지 주제 금지가 메인 스페이스를 포함하는지 여부를 명확히 해야 한다고 주장하고 있다.사라SV 01:40, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
레: SPI, 엘비가 처음에 누군지 알았다는 징후는 없어.IP 주소 중 하나로 열었어MikeV는 12월 6일에 그 주소로 사건을 보관했다.Berean Hunter는 12월 20일에 그것을 그 이름으로 옮겼다.사라SV 02:09, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
음, 그 사건의 역사는 정말 혼란스러워.나는 엘비가 그것을 열기 직전에 어디에 있었는지 알고 있다. 그리고 나는 이 페이지에 다음과 같이 쓰여 있는 큰 노트를 볼 수 있다.

사례는 원래 이름 변경 사용자 51g7z61hz5af2az6k6(토크 · 기여)에 따라 열렸지만 위키백과로 이동했다는 점에 유의하십시오.Sockpuppet 조사/169.230.155.123.

이 모든 것은 잡초다.중요한 것은 엘비가 이미 COI/화이트워싱 편집에 대해 염려하고 있던 발사르탄/사쿠비트리럴 기사에서 그 페이지에 올려놓은 머리글에 사건이 발생했다는 것이다.엘비는 곧바로, 아니 곧이어 자신의 목표가 COI가 있다고 믿었던 "이전"이라는 것을 알았고, 마침내 관련 토크 페이지에서 업무방해로 추방되기 전에 그곳에서 두 명의 SPI 사무원으로부터 들은 대로 훼방적인 행동을 했다.( 두 가지 경고는 여기와 여기).Jytdog (대화) 03:16, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC) (수정; Jytdog (대화) 18:42, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
OhNoitsJamie 지원.97.95.68.240 (대화) 03:02, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
이 IP의 20여 개의 편집({{Copypaste}}}을 사용한 요약 "카피비오의 경고" 편집 및 많은 ANI 편집) 중 첫 번째 편집은 이것이 숙련된 (금지된?) 사용자 삭싱 및 관리자다운 작업 수행일 수 있음을 시사한다.하지만 난 너무 바빠서 SPI 케이스를 여는 게 금지되어 있어.누가 뭐라도 할 수 있을까? (또한 자료실에서 투표!) --엘비(tc) 16:44, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
오 부우.이 백과사전을 통해 도움을 주고 싶어하는 IP에 대해 불평하는 것.아무 계정에도 연결되지 않음. 97.95.68.240 (대화) 22:07, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
지지 - 그것은 TBAN 위반에 직면했을 때 지역 사회가 할 수 있는 모든 것이다.알렉스브렌 (대화) 2016년 1월 29일 14:24 (UTC)[응답]
반대 - 사라SV에 의해.최근 ArbCom GMO 사례에서 많은 동일한 편집자들이 자신들이 좋아하지 않는 편집자를 "도난"하기 위해 여기에 정렬되어 있는 상황에서 이 경우 심각한 문제가 발견된다.나는 완전히 책임감이 없는 관리자에게 이것을 닫아 달라고 요청하고, 필요에 따라 송전물을 나눠준다.엘비에게는 문제가 있지만, 돌을 던지는 사람들은 그들만의 문제가 없는 것은 아니다.Jusdafax 16:26, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
Jusdafax 당신의 투표는 주제 금지가 있었다는 사실이나, 엘비가 그것을 무시했다는 사실이나, 그가 금지된 주제를 추구하면서 야기시킨 실제적인 혼란에 대해서는 다루지 않는다.네가 거기에 썼듯이, 여기서 분명히 정치는 너에게 중요한 것이다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 31일 19:07 (UTC)[응답]
지난번 당신이 나에게 직접 연설했을 때, 당신의 토크 페이지에 있는 통보에 대한 모호하고 위협적인 답변으로, 당신은 이미 곤경에 처한 것이 분명했다. 그리고 정말로, 당신이 한번도 지지한 적이 없거나 설명할 수 있는 일반적인 예절을 가지고 있는 GMO Arb-Com 사건의 당사자로써 나를 지목한 후, 당신은 완전히 멍청이였다.ArbCom이 폭력적인 편집과 주제 금지에 대해 훈계한 것뿐만 아니라 okked."여기서 당신에게 중요한 것은 무엇인가"라고 당신은 말한다.감히 네가.당신이 무엇을 하고 있는지, 기록을 볼 때, 그리고 내가 전에 경고한 적이 있는데, 당신이 무시하는 것이 적합하다고 생각했기 때문에, 나는 이제 공식적으로 당신에게 당신이 개인적으로 찬성하는 방식으로 생각하거나 편집하지 않는 편집자들을 괴롭히는 것을 그만두라고 경고한다.네가 엘비에 대한 공격은, 네가 처음 내 토크 페이지에 올린 이후 나의 오랜 경험에서, 분명히 나쁜 믿음의 편집에 의해 동기부여가 된다. 다시 말하지만, 네가 다른 사람들을 공격했을 때, 내가 너에게 지적한 바 있다.멈추지 않으면 더 많은 차단과 제재에 직면하게 된다.진정해, 임마.Jusdafax 20:49, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
당신의 논평은 당신의 투표가 엘비의 기존 TBAN에 대한 행동을 다루지 않았다는 나의 말의 타당성을 강화시켜 줄 뿐이고 그것이 정말로 당신이 나를 싫어하는 것에 대한 것임을 분명히 해 줄 뿐이다.그것을 명확히 해줘서 고마워.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 31일 21:26 (UTC)[응답하라]
유다스팩스:여기서 구체적인 "이슈"는 TBAN 위반이며, (엘비의 (Jytdog에 대한 반대급부)는 다른 누구와도 문제가 되지 않는다.아마도 당신은 그가 충분한 사랑을 느끼지 못하기 때문에 그의 일반적인 불친절함을 용서할 수 있겠지만, 나는 인과관계가 실제로는 반대로 작용한다고 생각한다. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (토크) 23:44, 2016년 1월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
반대 이것은 Jytdog에게는 개인적인 것으로 보인다.지금 그가 여기서 공격하고 있는 방식을 보세요, 그가 토론에 참여하는데, 토론에서 내가 언급된 바로는 나를 향한 애드호미넴 공격에 거의 500단어를 쓰는 것이었습니다.열기 및 추적(유효함!)그의 금지된 친구인 구 98에 대한 SPI는 적절했다. 내가 보기엔 그런 점에서 내가 편집한 99%는 TBAN 위반은 아니지만, V와 SPI에 대한 나의 토론은 그에 의해 내가 본 수많은 정책 위반을 지적했고, 그가 그들을 방해하는 것으로 보았고, 그는 나를 SPI로부터 금지시키기 위해 걸레를 사용했다는 것을 인정한다.#질문, 더 가까이서 다룰 것을 촉구하며 나중에 깨달은 것은, 비록 나는 여전히 그것을 존중하고 있지만, 그가 아마도 그것을 시행하는 것으로부터 벗어날 수 있기 때문이다.)여기 Jytog가 제안하는 코멘트가 있다. 정확성을 위해 "나는 내가 주제 금지를 여러 번 위반했다는 것을 인정한다. 그리고 내가 SPI를 개설했다는 것을 인정한다(Jytdog는 매우 친밀한 사용자들에 대해 Jytdog가 그들의 사생활을 공유하고 있다) 그리고 어느 시점에서 (이는 매우 긴 토론이었다) 다른 편집자가 인용문에서 전자를 설득했다는 것을 언급했다.Ly 98은 COI로 편집하고 있었다.나는 COI를 그 토론에 끌어들이지 말았어야 했다.사과드리며 향후 COI 문제에 대해 매우 주의하겠다." --Elvey(tc) 16:30, 2016년 1월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
엘비, 이 ANI는 TBAN을 위반하는 네 행동에 관한 거야네 행동에 대한 증거를 가져오는 것은 선동적인 공격이 아니다.SPI 사례 자체에 대해서는 - 내가 인정한 바와 같이 이전 제품에 대한 유효한 SPI 사례가 있었다. 하지만 이전 제품에 대한 당신의 추구는 그가 COI에 따라 편집 중이라는 당신의 확신 때문이었다. - 그가 제약 회사라는 것이다.TBAN을 명시적으로 위반하지 않고 SPI에 대한 모든 작업을 수행할 수 있었는가?아마도...하지만 만약 당신이 정말로 TBAN을 존중하고 WP에서 COI를 다루지 않았다면, 당신은 SPI를 가동시켜 "팔마 실"을 폐쇄했을 것인가?난 그렇게 생각 안 해.
이 중 어느 것도 "개인적인" 것은 아니다.당신은 위키피디아에서 COI를 다루려고 할 때 파괴적이다.당신은 SPI를 방해함으로써 그것을 다시 한번 보여주었고, 당신은 여전히 SPI에서 당신이 파괴되었다는 것을 인정하지 않고 있다.위키피디아에서 COI를 다루려고 하는 것은 이 프로젝트에 좋지 않다.그것이 원래 TBAN이 지역사회에서 시행된 이유와 지역사회가 SPI를 포함하도록 TBAN 연장을 제안하는 이유다.당신은 지역사회가 당신에게 말하는 것을 듣지 못했다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 1월 31일 00:19 (UTC)[응답]
  • SlimVirgin, 나는 원래의 ANI 토론을 다시 한번 훑어보았다.Jytdog의 첫 번째 제안은 구체적인 "COI 논의 금지된 주제"였고, 나는 그 문구가 나머지 논의의 방향을 안내했다고 생각한다.내가 인용한 실제 제안은, 내가 그것을 어떻게 고쳐야 할지 몰라서, "COI에서 금지된 주제"라고 말했기 때문에 인용했다는 것을 알게 될 것이다. 이것은 조지윌리엄허버트의 문구인데, 나는 그들이 단순히 한 마디를 잊어버렸는지 궁금하다.자, 한편으로, 나는 우리가 그렇게 명확하지 않을 때는 보수적이 되어야 하고, 따라서 주제 금지를 비기사 공간으로 제한하는 것이 타당하다고 생각한다.반면에, 만약 편집자가 기사에 COI 태그를 붙이기 시작한다면, 나는 다른 편집자들에게 이것이 다른 편집자들만큼 파괴적일 것이라는 것에 의심의 여지가 없다.결국, 기사에 COI 태그를 심는 것은 기본적으로 "여기 COI가 있다"는 말인데, 그 태그가 토크 페이지에서 설명될 것으로 예상할 수 있다.

    모든 것을 다른 방식으로 말하자면, 엘비가 주제 금지의 경계를 회피하는 것은 매우 현명하지 못한 일일 것이다.드레이미스 (대화) 03:59, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

  • Drmies, 8월에 있었던 토론에 대한 나의 이해는 Elby가 위키백과의 COI 편집을 방해하게 되었다는 것이었다.그것은 요청된 금지 사항이었다.콘텐츠 편집은 위키백과의 COI 편집 논의와는 관련이 없다.기사에 COI 태그를 추가하는 것은 또 다른 문제인데, 그것은 내용에서 벗어나 메타 데이터로 가는 것을 포함하기 때문에, 그것은 금지 조항에 의해 다루어질 것이다.누군가는 누군가가 화가 났을 때 이러한 구별은 쉽게 놓칠 수 있기 때문에 향후의 불상사를 피하기 위해서는 그 금지법이 내용을 다루어야 한다고 주장할 수 있다.나는 엘비가 얼마나 자제력을 발휘할 수 있느냐에 달려 있다고 생각하는데, 여기에 있는 고소인들에게 공정하게 말하면 그의 전력이 좋지 않다.그래도 COI가 그의 관심사 중 하나라면, 그리고 일이 필요한 COI에 관한 기사가 있다면, 그것은 그에게 유용한 일이 될 것이기 때문에, 나는 그에게 그 의심의 혜택을 주되 경계 위반의 첫 징조에서 그 금지를 내용으로 확대시키는 쪽으로 마음이 쏠릴 것이다.사라SV 04:51, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그것은 또한 그것에 대해 현명하게 행동하는 것에 대한 질문이다.내가 확신하는 것은 오늘 밤 일찍 COI 편집의 일종이라고 확신하는 것을 제거했지만, 편집 요약은 "적절하게 검증되지 않았다" 또는 "중립과는 거리가 멀다"라고 말할 수 있다."Rv COI 편집"은 그들이 할 수 있는 최악의 일일 것이다. (내가 언급했던 것은 내용 편집과 토론의 일종의 중복이다.)그리고 내가 일종의 부정행위를 제안한다고 생각하는 사람들을 위해- 아니, 내가 보기에 그 혼란은 그들의 COI와 COI의 의심스러운 논의방식에 의해 야기되었다.어느 쪽이든, 엘비가 그들의 기술을 강화해야 할 분야는 통제와 외교다.물론 우리 중 많은 사람을 위해 간다.드레이미스 (토크) 05:04, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그렇다, 그가 그런 부분들에서 편집한다면, 그리고 "rv, 그러나 나는 이유를 말할 수 없다." 사라SV 05:57, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 반대 그 분야에서 전에 일어났던 것처럼 반대파를 침묵시키려는 또 다른 시도처럼 보인다.배너톡 04:09, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 엘비 말고 COI 문제 때문에 금지된 주제를 가진 사람을 모른다.이상하다.Jytdog (대화) 04:35, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 위의 논의에서 나타난 사라의 철저한 분석에 따라 대부분 반대한다.일반적으로, 나는 주제 금지를 위반했다는 주장에 감명받지 않는다.최악의 경우, 그것은 엘비에게 그 행위가 주제 금지를 위반했다는 지시를 받는 결과를 초래해야 하는 기술적 위반이다. (그리고 그것이 그런 행동을 하는지에 대한 의문이 있어 보인다.)제시된 것에 근거하여 여기까지 가는 것은 단지 징벌적으로 보인다.나는 부지반이 다음 단계라는 가정에는 동의하지 않는다.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 05:06, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
멘달리브 맨 위에 있는 difs 읽어봤어?그 모든 것에서 엘비는 편집자의 COI에 대해 명시적으로 논하고, 그들 모두는 그의 TBAN이 부과된 후에 왔다.나는 무언가가 정반대인 비자로 월드에 있는 것 같아.여기 또 있다.
어떻게 위반이 아니라고 할 수 있지?그리고 그것은 단지 부분적인 샘플일 뿐이다.그리고 SPI의 붕괴에 관여하지도 않는다.Jytdog (대화) 20:54, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
"엘비에서 지시를 받아야 하는 결과를..."?그에게 얼마나 많은 가르침이 필요한가?관리자 Elvey로부터 상기된 내용을 보면 다음과 같은 사실을 알 수 있다. "일부 관련 문제는 과거에 반복적으로 설명되어 왔으며, 다른 편집자의 메시지를 지속적으로 중단시키는 편집과 관련하여 다른 편집자의 메시지를 무시하는 경우가 많으므로 이를 설명할 필요가 없다.또 그대에게."엘비의 마지막 논평(위)에서도 그의 표면적인 사과가 어떻게 "정확하게 수정되었는지"를 주목한다.내가 보기에 그에게 주어진 지시와 경고는 모두 '정확하게 정정했다'고 해석하는 것 같다.~J. 존슨(JJ) (토크) 22:43, 2016년 2월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 마지못해 하는 지지 나는 사라가 전반적으로 중재와 탈분산을 강조하는 것은 고맙지만, 결국 엘비의 주제 금지 위반이 그녀(그리고 다른 사람들)가 보는 것만큼 애매한 것으로는 보지 않을 뿐이다.Elby가 COI/COI 논의를 직접 언급하는 사례도 있으며, "세금"에 대한 다른 언급도 거의 비스듬하지 않다.주제 금지는 사소한 제재가 아니다. 그들은 행동이 심각하게 파괴되었을 때에만 발행되며, 편집자의 긍정적인 기여를 보존하기 위한 마지막 노력으로 주어진 주제 영역이나 과정에 수반되는 혼란을 줄이기 위해 발행된다.만약 기고자가 그들의 지속적인 참여를 촉진하기 위해 그들의 혼란을 고립시키려는 공동체의 노력을 위반한다면, 공동체는 중간 선택권이 바닥났고, 편집자의 개입의 균형이 더 이상 좋은 쪽으로 유리하지 않다는 것을 증명하기 위해 우리가 피하고자 하는 더 일반적인 금지 조치를 이행하지 않으면 안 된다.그 계획의
우리가 정말로 그것들을 계속 유지할 구실을 원한다면 여기서 엘비의 언어를 여기서 길게 구문 분석할 수 있다. 그러나 우리가 원래의 주제 금지를 유효한 지역사회 제재로 간주한다고 가정한다면, 위의 많은 차이점들은 이 사용자가 커뮤니티가 분명히 그들에게 피하도록 지시했던 영역으로부터 연결을 끊을 수 없는 지속적인 무능함을 나타낸다. 즉, se.재정적 동기 부여의 결과로 인식되는 다른 영역에서 행동에 대응하기 위한 if 지시 개인 사명.그들이 "관심충돌"이라는 정확한 단어를 사용하는지(또는 얼마나 자주 사용하는지는 여기서 정말로 부수적인 것이다.문제는 그들이 아직도 이 프로젝트에 대한 기업의 영향력을 뿌리 뽑아야 한다고 생각하느냐 하는 것이다. 그 영향의 "증거"를 제공하거나 언급함으로써, 지역사회가 그들에게 분명히 지시했던 활동인 (엘비)을 그만두게 함으로써 말이다.나는 SV가 제안하는 것과 같은 회유 노력에 반대하기는 싫지만, 이 경우, 해당 사용자는 특히 그들의 참여를 보존하기 위한 노력의 일환으로 언제 그것이 나타날지 변덕스럽게 커뮤니티에 저항할 수 없다는 확고한 독촉이 필요하다고 생각한다.1개월 또는 3개월의 금지는 그 점을 강조하기 위한 적절한 수단으로 보인다.let's rap 08:40, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 논평이 여기서 정말 중요한 것을 설명하는 데 아주 효과가 있다고 생각한다.잘 말했고, 고마워. --Tryptofish (대화) 22:44, 2016년 2월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서 "진짜 중요하다"는 것은 엘비의 COI나 양말퍼펫에 대한 명백한 집착이 아니라(그리고 내가 아는 모든 것에 대해 이것이 합법적인 문제가 될 수 있다는 것을 알고 있다) 나머지 지역 사회와의 상호작용 방식(ss는 이것들과 다른 주제에 대해 시연했고, 심지어 이 토론에서조차), 그리고 이것을 듣지 못한 그의 집요한 실패라는 것. ~ J. 존슨(J.J) (대화)20:44, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 드레이즈 덕분에 다른 관리자들은 오늘 아침 아침엔 아무것도 먹지 않았다.
  • 이것은 단지 내가 이 토론의 대부분과 차이점 그리고 모든 것을 읽었다고 말하는데 나는 정말로 의견이 없다.또 아이스박스 안에 있던 자두도 먹어봤다.마무리하는 관리자에게 행운을 빈다.드레이미스 (토크) 23:26, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
리뷰하고, 논평하고, 매력을 제공해줘서 고마워, 드라이스.그러나 커뮤니티는 그들의 판단력을 사용하는 관리자들에게 매우 많이 의존하고 있다.또는 빨간 바퀴의 막대기.시인의 지적대로 닭들은 요점을 벗어났다.대부분 비가 계속 오는 것 같다.그래서 나는 다른 행정관이 이 부분을 좀 더 보완해 주었으면 좋겠다.Jytdog (대화) 21:08, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 지금 이 토론을 검토 중이고 몇 시간 안에 그것을 닫을 것이다.여기서 검토할 것이 많다.나, 제스로BT 01:59, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
@Drmies:이런 말 하기는 싫지만, 그것들은 자두가 아니었어.연구실로 가져가려던 의료용 샘플들이었습니다. --Tryptofish (대화) 18:46, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

중단 편집

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

검증되지 않은 편집자 아유시 굽타 앳 위키피디아(Ayush Gupta At Wikipedia)가 나의 거듭된 경고에도 불구하고 나와 편집 전쟁에 빠져들고 있는 <최고의 여성 재생 가수상>에서 파괴적인 편집을 강조하고 싶다.이 사이트를 팬 페이지로 사용하는 편집자에 대한 작업 요청.어떤 시상 페이지에서도 세 명의 가수가 슈퍼레이즈로 등장하는 연습은 없다. 최대 2명. --ANKMALI (토크) 04:08, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

너희 둘 다 편집 전쟁에 빠져있어.분쟁 해결을 통해 이 문제를 해결하는 방법을 알아내십시오.둘 중 한 명만 전쟁을 편집했다면, 나는 전쟁 편집 게시판을 제안했을 텐데, 너는 아유시만큼이나 자신을 차단할 가능성이 높다.Sometguy1221 (대화) 04:12, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
세컨드.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 2월 6일 04:25 (UTC)[응답]
"두 분 다 편집전에 탐닉하고 있군."사실, OP가 서류 정리할 때 그렇게 말했어.;) 그러나 그 이후 그 기사는 보호되어 왔으므로, 바라건대 그것으로 일이 끝나기를 바란다.에르퍼트 01:20, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자에 의한 법적 위협:178.167.254.51

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

위에 언급된 IP 주소 편집자는 바바라 노튼에서 법적 조치를 취할 것이라고 위협했다. [56]법적 위협에 대한 정책이 있다 - WP:합법적 - IP가 위반했다.나는 이 문제에 대한 관리자의 의견을 듣고 싶다.체스 (대화) 2016년 2월 6일 16:53 (UTC)[응답]

보통 그런 종류의 소피는 가해자를 차단하는 것이다.IP이기 때문에 블록이 지나치게 길지는 않을 것이다. - 아마도 일주일 정도일 것이다. 하지만 만약 그들이 정규 계정을 사용한다면 위협이 철회될 때까지 그것은 지속되지 않을 것이다.제레미브^_^vBori! 17:37, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
누군가가 방금 경고했어.그들의 토크 페이지에는 아직 차단 통지가 없지만 IP는 차단되지 않았을 것이다.체스 (대화) 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC) 17:38 [응답]

법적 위협을 할 경우 차단됨.72시간 동안 했는데 IP가 주인을 돌리기 때문이다.블록이 만료된 후 동일인이 IP를 사용하고 있다는 징후가 있으면 나에게 알려줘.HighInBC 17:59, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

HighInBC, 좋아.감사합니다.체스 (대화) 2016년 2월 6일 19시 15분 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

MFD 재연결

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

좋아, 밖에서 의논할 때 이걸 가져갈게.위키피디아에서 다양한 토론을 마무리하고 다시 시작했다.비참여에 기반한 삭제에 대한 잘못된 셀러한 오류.과거에는 이와 같은 논평을 하지 않고 공천을 받지 않는 토론이 삭제의 근거가 되었지만, 적어도 어떤 토론은 있어야 한다는 견해는 수없이 많았다.봇의 이상한 행동 때문에, 재등록은 템플릿과 페이지의 목록을 위로 이동시키는 고지를 모두 포함한다.어떤 이유로든 사용자:SmokeJoe는 그것이 파괴적이라는 것을 발견하고 MFD 토크에서 꺼냈으며, 다른 누군가가 그 아래로 내려가 그것을 볼 때까지 그들을 통나무의 맨 아래에 무기한 남겨두는 안내문을 삭제했다.이것은 내가 AFD, CFD, TFD, 다른 모든 곳에서 폐쇄를 위해 했던 것과 반대되는 것처럼 보이지만, MFD는 항상 약간 이상했다.조언 부탁해. -- Ricky81682 (대화) 00:52, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

업데이트 그리고 그 봇은 오래된 사업아래에서 그 토론을 페이지 하단에 되돌려 놓았다.나는 다른 사람이 논평할 때까지 어떻게 "오래된 사업"을 재개된 토론으로 가득 차게 하거나 단지 몇 주 동안 비워두게 하는 것이 정책에 따라 재등록하는 것보다 낫다고 생각하지 않는다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 01:09, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내 2부작...MFDs never ever gain any !votes like RFD or AFD so personally I have to agree it is a waste of time not only for you but for the nominator aswell, From what I can recall even the "no !vote-MFDs" were simply being deleted which IMHO is much better than continuously relisting everything that everyone knows won't ever get commented on...., –Davey2010Talk 01:06, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 여섯 가지 일을 다시 했고 대부분은 더 많은 의견을 가지고 있다.MFD를 검토해보라, 거의 모든 것이 적어도 한두 표는 가지고 있다.1-1 keep/delete 또는 no comment one 입니다.이 문제는 다시 제기되는 것이 아니며, 스모키조는 아무런 합의도 없이 그들을 종결시키도록 요구하지 않는다.논의는 현 시점의 논의 밑에 묻혀야 한다는 것이 전체 주장이다.이것은 AFD, CFD, TFD를 위한 재설치된 토론이 어디서든 이루어지지 않는데 왜 MFD 논의가 그런 방식으로 진행되어야 하는지 모르겠다.그리고 네, 과거에는 삭제되었지만 사람들은 DRV에 대해 다른 사람들이 그것에 대해 토론하도록 해야 한다고 불평해왔다.나는 삭제하려고 그것들을 닫는 사지로 나갔다가 더 많은 토론을 요구하는 트롤들에 의해 DRV에 끌려가서 더 많은 토론을 허락받았어야 했다는 말을 듣는 것에 지쳤다.고전적인 관리 업무:하면 저주받을 것, 안하면 저주받을 것. -- 리키81682 (대화) 01:09, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
아, 나는 DRV에 대해 몰랐어. 미안해. 공평하게 말하면 모든 관리자들도 마찬가지야. 네가 뭘 하든 아무도 행복하지 않을 거야!어쨌든 나는 개인적으로 모두 시간 낭비라고 생각하지만 이봐, 그건 내 2c, Davey2010Talk 01:16, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]에 불과해.
  • 임의의 오래된 것들을 새로운 날짜에 보내기 위해 다시 등록하면 뒷일로부터 뒷일 검토 기능이 향상된다. --SmokeyJoe (토크) 01:25, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
그들이 문을 닫았어야 했다는 말씀이세요?그럼 어느 쪽이야?아니면 MFD 로그에 그들이 올라오는 게 자네 문제인가?만약 삭제되었다면, 다시 DRV에 끌려가서 토론이 있을 때까지 기다려야겠다.의견이 일치하지 않는다면, 새로운 논의와 함께 재추천될지는 두고 보십시오.그것은 내 입장에서 볼 때 가치 없는 일이 많다.토론이 전혀 없고 다른 사람들이 그것에 대해 이야기하게 하고 싶기 때문에 재등록하는 것이 필요한 것이다.G13을 놓고 곳곳에서 싸움이 벌어지고 있고, 언제 지워야 할 지 오래된 초안이 있다.말 그대로 이 모든 것에 대한 어떤 합의도 없다.만약 당신이 그것들을 닫기를 원한다면, 당신은 그것들을 이동시키기 위한 태그뿐만 아니라, 기존의 통지를 모두 제거해야 한다.말 그대로 다른 관리자가 그런 일을 하지 않는 이유, 그리고 지금 당장 남은 것은 내가 투표한 모든 것뿐이다. -- 리키81682 (토크) 01:35, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 새로운 논의는 아니라는 것만으로 폐쇄해야 하는지에 대한 의견은 없다.
  • 문제는 통나무를 잘라서 더 이상 정돈되지 않는 것이다.
  • 리스팅은 매우 형편없는 광고 방법이다.그리고 그것은 밀린 업무 검토에 지장을 준다.
  • G13과 "stale" 사물은 이미 현재 논의의 대상이 되고 있으니, 그들을 놀게 하라.MfDs는 7일에 닫을 필요가 없다.
  • MfD에서 일한 이력이 있는 다른 대부분의 관리자들은 바쁜 일의 우세로 인해 포기했다.바쁜 일에 보태고 있지만, 적어도 어려운 토론 등 면밀한 논의를 하는 것은 매우 좋은 일이다. --스모키조(토크) 01:42, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
"목록 흔들기"는 모든 xFD를 재등록하는 전체 지점이다. - 부시 레인저One ping only 06:28, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
그게 내 요점이야.그렇지 않으면 나는 어떤 사람이 무엇을 해야 할지 결정할 때까지 그 리스트를 그냥 무시할 수 있을 것이다(그리고 나는 다른 관리자가 그것을 어느 시점에서 더 이상 섞고 싶어할지 의심스럽다).요점은, 만약 이것이 어떤 새로운 규칙으로 되어 있다면(실제로 MFD 토론을 다시 시작하지는 말 것), 다른 사람이 그것을 알고 있을지는 확실하지 않다.--리키81682 (대화) 06:57, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
부시 레인저에 따르면 그게 요점이라면 그건 완전히 멍청한 짓이야
리키, 내가 아는 바로는 네가 MfD를 다시 시작하는 첫 번째 사람이야. 아마 밀린 업무 부분을 무차별적으로 가속화시킬 거야.당신의 목표는 전적으로 무의미하며, 질서 있는 공천 심사를 방해한다. --스모키조 (토크) 10:01, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
틀렸을 거야.사람들은 2013년부터 그것을 어떻게 하냐고 물었지만, 그 봇의 익살스러운 행동이 문제를 일으키고 있었다.Xaosflux도 물어봤을 것 같아. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 10:33, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

정말 나쁜 것은 임의의 편집자라면 누구나 한 장의 허튼 소리를 만들어 낼 수 있지만, 그것을 없애기 위해서는 실질적인 노력이 필요하다는 것이다.페이지를 분석하고 CSD 기준을 고려해야 하며, MfD에 나열한 CSD 적합성 또는 CSD가 거부된 경우.극소수의 편집자들이 MfD에서 논평한다.주석이 없는 경우 정크 페이지가 유지되는가?제작자는 분명히 신경 쓰지 않고 정리 편집자의 노력은 아무런 조치도 취하지 않는다.RfD나 PROD와 마찬가지로, 목록에 있는 페이지는 반대가 없으면 삭제해야 한다.삭제 관리자는 프로세스의 최종 점검이다.목록 작성 후 유용한 내용이 삭제될 가능성은 매우 작지만 정리하는 것이 훨씬 쉬울 것이다.그것은 다시 시작할 필요를 없앨 것이다.레거시pac (대화) 19:02, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

@SmokeyJoe:나는 가끔 다시 연결된 MFD(rarly, 그러나 그것은 일어난다)를 보았고, 위에 새로운 타임스탬프를 가지고 있었다.이를 통해 봇은 XfD 토론이 다른 곳에서 처리되는 방식으로 이를 처리할 수 있으며, 재등록 당시 새로운 논의였던 것처럼 재등록된 토론이 위치하게 된다.עודדוו od Od Mishehu 19:19, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
이 특정 MfD를 살펴본 적은 없지만, 지명 전용 XfDs를 습관적으로 재등록(및 반복적으로 재등록)하는 일반적인 추세에 대해 다소 물러설 때가 된 것 같다.특정 '프로세스' 트라핑은 제쳐두고, 지명 전용 XfD는 전체 시간을 가시성이 높은 게시판에 추가해 광범위한 검토를 요청하는 PROD(삭제 제안) 공천과 구별할 수 없다.
XfD 지명이 가시성에도 불구하고 커뮤니티 코멘트를 한 개도 추가하지 못할 경우, 해결책은 커뮤니티를 계속 괴롭히는 것이 아니다.아무도 개입할 수 없다고 본 PROD처럼 취급하기 위함입니다.종료 관리자가 삭제하도록 제공된 주장을 검토하고 정책과 페이지 내용에 대해 평가한 후 결정을 내리도록 하십시오.(관리자가 페이지를 삭제해야 한다는 데 동의하지 않을 경우, 토론에서 여전히 "아니오"로 투표할 수 있고, 다음에 오는 관리자는 의견 일치를 보지 않는 것으로 마감하거나, 그럴 가치가 있는 것으로 보이면 다시 투표할 수 있다.)
XfD 관리자가 영구적인 좀비 재연결로 이러한 프로세스를 중단하도록 권장하지 마십시오.(더 이상, 원하는 관리자가 헛된 시간낭비 재설정으로 통계를 작성하도록 권장하지 마십시오.)TenOfAllTraes(대화) 22:38, 2016년 2월 7일(UTC)[응답]
150개의 MFD 중에서 5개의 재결합이 있어. 각각의 MFD는 더 많은 표를 얻었지만 나는 별로 해롭지 않다.사실 MFD를 잠깐 봐봐다시 말하지만, 그 문제는 재기존하는 것이 아니다.SmokeJoe의 주장은 전적으로 재기존을 어디에 두어야 하는가에 달려 있다.내가 말했듯이, 그것은 오늘날의 AFD 로그에서 재등록된 것을 삭제하고 그것을 원래의 로그에 다시 저장하고 다른 모든 사람들에게 우리가 오래된 로그들을 보관하고 그것들을 뒤져보라고 말하는 것과 비슷하다.우리가 일을 다시 시작하지 않으면 대략 39 MFD가 그 곳에 떨어질 때 "구 사업" 부분을 정리하기가 더 어려워진다.그리고 여러분이 생각하기에 좋은 점은 지명만 있는 MFD들이 지지자로 취급되어야 한다고 생각하지만 아무도 그렇게 하고 싶어하지 않는다고 해도 놀라지 말라는 겁니다. 만약 그들이 DRV에서 지명만 있는 MFD에 대해 더 많은 논의가 필요하다는 말을 듣는다면요.사람들은 결정을 내려야 한다. 그리고 만약 "우리는 당신이 원하지 않기 때문에 다시 시도하지 말아야 하지만 만약 당신이 그것을 닫았다면, 우리는 돌아서서 당신에게 다시 시도했어야 한다고 말할 것이다"라고 대답한다면, 나는 왜 관리자들이 신경 쓰지 않는지 알 수 있다.나는 이미 이것에 싫증이 나고 단순히 재등록 토론이 이 바보 같은 양의 드라마를 야기시킨다면 다른 것을 할 것이다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 22:46, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Buckshot06이 아프간 미국인 페이지에서 나를 괴롭히고 있다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 접근 금지 명령을 받는 데 도움이 필요함:매우 화가 나 불필요하게 나를 위협하는 벅샷06.[57] 내가 그의 잘못을 바로잡아 주었고, 이제 그는 나를 막고 싶어 한다.--크르지호스22 (대화) 10:18, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

어쩌면 당신은 전쟁을 편집하는 것을 그만둬야 할지도 모른다.1월 중순부터 그 수치를 두고 싸우고 계셨군요.닉-D (대화) 10:26, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
편집전은 없다.내가 수치를 수정했고, 그는 그것을 알아챘지만 여전히 infobox에 부정확한 수치를 허용했다.대신 그는 나에게 집중하고 있다.WP 규칙은 편집자가 아닌 내용에 초점을 맞춘다는 것이다.--Krzyhors22 (대화) 10:49, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 이 사용자의 행동에 관심이 있는 모든 사용자는 Talk를 주의 깊게 검토하십시오.아프간계 미국인Krzyhors22는 아마도 여러 문제에 대한 전문가일 것이지만, 그가 동의하지 않는 편집자에 대해 직접적으로 NPA에 대해 매우 경계선을 긋는 (아마도 본의 아니게?)나는 그에게 그의 말을 좀 더 신중히 생각해 보라고 거듭 부탁했고, 그가 전혀 이해했는지 정말 확신할 수 없기 때문에 내 볼륨을 높였다.모든 벅샷06 (대화) 10:34, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
@Krzyhors22: - 혹시 14기병대 소속이 아니십니까?벅샷06 (대화) 10:37, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
크즈호스22 벅샷보다 더 안 좋아 보이는군지금부터 시민적 토론을 계속하라고 강력히 충고하고 싶다.Someguy1221 (대화) 10:44, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
벅샷06은 우리나라에서 나를 "친구"라고 불렀는데, 매우 불쾌하다.) 나는 여러 가지 일에 전문가인데 위키피디아는 전문가를 선호한다.--크지호스22 (대화) 10:49, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 영어 위키백과인데, 영어로 누군가를 "친구"라고 부르는 것은 그들을 "친구"라고 부르는 것과 같다.베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→13:04, 2016년 2월 7일(UTC)[응답]
영어로 된 메이트는 섹스 파트너를 포함한 여러 가지 의미를 가지고 있다.[58] 그는 세계 대부분의 사람들이 "메이트"를 사용하지 않는다는 것을 알고 있다.--크지호스22 (대화) 16:39, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
편집자는 뉴질랜드 출신이고, 그 지역의 사람들은 우리 미국인들이 "팔"이나 "버디"를 사용하는 것처럼 "동료"를 사용한다. 약간 비꼬는 듯 하지만, 그 정도밖에 되지 않는다.base야구 벅스 당근→ 19:18, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

이것은 무엇보다도 콘텐츠 분쟁에 가까운 것으로 보인다.다른 할 말이 있다면 이걸 닫는 게 좋겠어콜메밀라 🍁 {Talk} 16:29, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

그는 1980년 영화 "The Shining"에서 말 그대로 잭 니콜슨처럼 행동했다.관리자들은 특히 건설적인 편집을 하는 사람에게 그렇게 행동해서는 안 된다. Krzyhors22(대화)16:39, 2016년 2월 7일(CoordinatedUniversalTime)[응답].
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

달빛을 받아 위키피디아가 아닌 기사를 명확히 보호하기 위한 반복적인 페이지 공백

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

문라이트윙은 그린의 튜토리얼 대학 토크 페이지를 두 번 비웠다.그린스_자습서_기사의 결함에 대한 논의를 방지하기 위한 대학.이것은 문라이트닝이 논의하기를 거부하지만 수많은 규칙과 정책을 위반하는 것으로 묘사해 온 기사의 내용 면에서는 파괴적인 편집/반달리즘이며 의심스럽다.자세한 내용은 제3의견 아래 기사의 토크 페이지에 기재되어 있다(하나의 요청은 있었지만 거절).Diffs https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Greene%27s_Tutorial_College&diff=703821595&oldid=703333619Mifachispa96(대화 기여) 23:42, 2016년 2월 7일(UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 선행 미서명 논평

문라이트윙은 이제 Bb23(토크 · 기여)에 의해 차단된 체크유저가 되었다.Sometguy1221 (대화) 01:06, 2016년 2월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

트롤 IP

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

86.168.1987.1987, 와 관련된.에이크코렐 (대화) 14:57, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

86.106.160.0/21이 업무 중단으로 인해 일주일 동안 차단됨.지난 한 달 동안 이 범위에서 좋은 편집은 거의 없었다.케이티talk 16:02, 2016년 2월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
필터가 작동하는 것처럼 보이지 않는다. [여기에 있는 새로운 트롤 IP들]에이크코렐 (대화) 12시 4분, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
효과가 있긴 한데, 새로 편집한 건 레인지 블록 밖이야.86.187.128.0/18의 기여도를 살펴봤는데, 지난 30분 동안 꽤 힘들었고, 편집자가 더 많았지만, 좋은 편집도 더 많았지만 엘크 코렐의 무리보다 다른 유형의 파괴 행위도 더 많았다.그것을 근거로 해서 나는 혼란 때문에 일주일 동안 /18 범위를 차단했다.나는 또한 UTRS와 ACC를 일하기 때문에 발생할 수 있는 문제들이 있으면 잡도록 노력할 거야.우리는 이 얼간이를 참아서는 안 되지만 /18 사정거리 이상의 것은 불가능할 수도 있다.케이티talk 15:05, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

66.94.202.246

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP 편집자는 이전에 2주(1월 18일) 동안 소스가 없는 변경, 요약 편집, 토크에 참여하지 않는 것을 금지했다.블록은 이제 만료되었고 IP는 즉시 이전 동작을 재개했다.사용자 대화:66.94.202.246#2016년 2월UW 도그스 (대화) 00:21, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

이 편집자가 일으킨 혼란은 엄청나다.우리는 그의 수많은 해와 그의 기사들에 소개된 수많은 오류들을 확인하기 위해 그의 수많은 해와 숫자 변화를 겪기 위한 군대가 필요할 것이다.02:30, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)
나는 이 사용자의 편집(그들의 IP 주소가 몇 달마다 바뀌는 것 같지만 편집 스타일은 동일하고, 한 달 동안 하나의 IP 주소가 차단되었다)을 1년 넘게 감시해 왔으며, 사용자가 어느 정도 "더 좋아졌다"고 해도 응답하지 않고 있다.그 편집자는 사실상의 몇 가지 부정확함을 발견했고 최근에는 선의로 행동하고 있는 것 같다.불행하게도, 그들은 또한 많은 날짜들을 사실적으로 확인하지 않고, 그들이 왜 변경을 하는지를 설명하기 위해 편집 요약을 사용한 적이 없다.그들의 계속적인 IP 주소 전환으로 블록이 얼마나 오래 지속될지는 잘 모르겠지만, 없는 것보다는 낫다.(사용자 대화:66.94.206.60, 사용자 대화:66.94.209.81, 사용자 대화:66.94.195.79, 사용자 대화:66.94.205.235 역순) 요세미터(대화) 03:21, 2016년 2월 3일(UTC)[응답]을 참조하십시오.
66.94.192.0/19인데, 레인지블록이 너무 많은 부수적 피해를 입었어.만일 그가 오늘 평소의 편집 시간 동안 여기서 응답하지 않는다면 나는 이 싱글 IP를 3개월까지 차단할 용의가 있다.('패밀리 비디오 무비 클럽'에서 편집하는 사람이 비디오 가게 뒷방에 앉아 있는 남자라고 나만 생각하고 있는 것일까?)케이티talk 13:10, 2016년 2월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 그는 그가 중단했던 바로 그 곳을 찾아냈기 때문에 그는 90일간의 휴가를 떠났다.케이티talk 03:36, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

장기 문제 IP 편집기

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

45.26.44.116(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)과 이전 IP는 문제가 되는 편집의 오랜 역사를 가지고 있으며, 노골적으로 근거 없는 정보, POV 밀어넣기, 이름 부르기 등이 가끔 추가되기도 하는 가벼운 건설적인 건설적인 편집이 많이 섞여 있다.그들의 유일한 대응책은 일반적으로 그들의 토크 페이지에서 어떤 경고도 삭제하는 것이다.그들은 10월에 한 달 동안 가장 최근에 봉쇄되었지만, 그것이 행동을 바꾸지는 않았다.그 이후 몇 가지 예는 다음과 같다.

내 생각에 장기 차단이 있는 것 같아.Toohool (토크) 04:23, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

IS 만으로도 가능한 가장 긴 블록을 얻을 수 있다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 10:03, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
3개월 동안 막혔다.케이티talk 15:26, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 파괴적인 편집의 성격과 거의 7개월 동안 진행되어 온 사실(이 IP 주소에서 편집만 세는 것)을 고려하면, 나는 더 오랫동안 차단했을지 모르지만, 블록 길이는 항상 판단의 문제로, 크라카토아 케이티는 3개월 동안 갔다.그러나 Toohool, 당신은 "그들의 이전 IP"를 언급한다: 다른 IP 주소의 일부 또는 전부를 줄 수 있는가?가능하다면 rny 레인지 블록에 대한 사례가 있는지 편집 내역을 살펴보겠다."제임스"라는 가명사용하는 편집자BWatson" (대화) 15:41, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
더 긴 블록은 인정되지만, IP의 역동성이 나의 관심사였고 나는 전과목록을 가지고 있지 않다.너무해, 여기에 IP를 나열하면 우리 중 한 명이 범위 블록을 살펴볼 거야.케이티talk 15:57, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
편집 히스토리와 지리 위치로부터 는 특별하다고 생각한다.기여금/108.233.161.0이 그것일 수 있다.다시 편집 이력을 바탕으로(지리적 위치가 아님) 같은 초안 기사에 대해 특별히 특별하다고 생각한다.기여금/2602:306:CE9A:860:7880:862D:4FB4:1D6BS소셜:기여금/2602:306:CE9A:860:DC9A:75D3:8CA5:A080특수:기여금/2602:306:CE9A:860:11A6:812B:33D:A2AE등도 그것이지만, IPv6이기 때문에 훨씬 더 많이 변화하고 어떤 경우에도 IP가 ISP를 바꾼 것처럼 보여서 (그리고 지리 위치가 정확하다면 이동했을 수도 있음) 레인지 블록에 특별히 도움이 되지 않는 것 같다.닐 아인 (대화) 2016년 2월 5일 17시 30분 (UTC)[응답]
네, 오래된 IP들 중 일부 입니다.45.x 범위의 다른 제품은 본 적이 없어서 레인지 블록에 많이 사용하지 않는다.Toohool (talk) 18:27, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

토론에서 내 게시물을 엉망으로 만드는 조급자

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

WP에 관한 토론에서:ANI, 편집자 Rushur - 내가 그 토론에서 모든 것에 항상 동의한 것은 아니지만 - 2016년 2월 5일 - 내 게시물의 일부를 숨기기 시작했다.그것은 나의 언론과 토론의 자유에 대한 중대한 침해처럼 느껴진다.나는 단지 그가 나의 일부 논평 등에 만족하지 않거나 혹은 그것들에 동의하지 않는다고 추측할 수 있을 뿐이다.그것이 다른 사람의 게시물의 일부를 모호하게 하는 타당한 이유가 될 수 없는 것 같아.나는 그에게 왜 그랬는지, 그리고 그렇게 하는 것이 그의 권리인지 물어봤고, 내 게시물을 원래대로 복원시켰지만, 나는 그나 동료가 그 음란한 편집을 반복할까 두렵다.누가 좀 봐줄래?
주목할 만한 '공조'는 ANI에 대한 그 모든 논의가 다른 동료인 레거시팩의 뒤를 이어 이루어졌다는 것이다.Talk SCW. --Corriebertus (talk) 21:38, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

설명:너는 언론의 자유가 없다.위키피디아는 정부가 아니다.당신은 여기에 권리가 없어. --타라지 (대화) 00:38, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 음, 권리...예의범절에 대해 이야기합시다."의심할 정도로 공정한 판사"는 후서르에게 좋은 단어는 아니다: 그러한 표제는 당연히 중립적이어야 한다.한편, 코리베르투스에 의해 제안되고 있는 것은 거의 설득력을 얻지 못하는 것 같다 – 아마도 보드 게임을 하지 않으려는 사람은 그것을 볼 수 있고 닫아야 할 것이면 무엇이든 닫을 수 있을 것이다.Drmies (talk) 00:49, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
Srsly Drmies, 우선순위?UPDATE: 오, 잠깐, 네가 돌아와서 닫았구나.소프트라벤더(토크) 06:14, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[답글]
소프트라벤더, 내 결혼생활, 내 아이들이 이 웹사이트보다 더 중요하다.이 행사에서, 우리는 실제로 어떤 게임도 하지 않았지만, 나는 부엌을 청소했고, 나중에 내 딸과 함께 하이 소사이어티를 보았다.Drmies (토크) 2016년 2월 6일 17:51, (UTC)[답글]
@Corriebertus: 한 구간을 붕괴시키는 일반적인 목적은 토론이 진로를 다소 벗어나거나 최소한 약간은 비파괴적일 때 이다.사람들이 전반적으로 그런 판단을 내리는 것을 막기 위해 우리가 할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없지만, 만약 당신이 토론을 방해하고 있지 않다면 그것은 실행되어서는 안 된다.나는 제안하는 것은 괜찮다고 생각하지만, 당신의 입장에 반하는 모든 혹은 대부분의 코멘트를 평가하는 것은 파괴적이 된다.또한, 나는 당신이 이것에 대해 Hushur에게 직접적으로 이야기한 곳이 어디인지 모르겠다. (요약을 편집하는 것은 실제 커뮤니케이션을 구성하지 않는다), 그런 일이 당신의 토크 페이지 이외의 다른 곳에서 일어났는가?나, 제스로BT 01:28, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
당신의 게시물은 당신이 동의하지 않는 모든 관점을 질타하고 사람들의 의사를 잘못 전달하려고 했기 때문에 무너졌다.내가 붕괴의 맨 위에 올려놓은 메시지는 아닐지라도 나는 붕괴(좋은 지위에 있는 다른 두 편집자가 동의한 것을 본다)를 지지한다.나는 더 나아가 완전한 비주류적인 것을 제안함으로써 토론의 물꼬를 트려는 당신의 시도를 더욱 악화시킨다.만약 내가 지금 좀 덜 침착했다면 나는 너의 행동/편집 결정을 위키리더/위키트롤로 묘사했을 것이다. 하지만 우리는 '성실한 믿음을 가져야 한다'는 의무가 있기 때문에, 나는 간단히 "편집자가 너무 많이 항의하는 것 같다"고 말할 것이다.호서 (대화) 14:47, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Ibkib

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Ibkib은 "우리는 압둘 아지즈 사우드 알 바브텐 회사, 압둘 아지즈 알 바브텐에 대한 정보를 삽입하거나 수정할 책임이 있다"고 분명히 여기서 이해 상충을 인정했다.

압둘아지즈바바텐이라는 기사는 SPA 사용자에 의해 2011년 10월에 시작되었다.아마다에 의해 대규모로 확장된 사용자: 압둘아지즈 사우드바베텐의 시적 창조성 부문 기사 재단을 시작했던 Zagrete, 이 기사는 사용자가 2015년 12월 21일까지 상당히 안정적이었다.Ibkib은 대규모의 홍보 및 저작권 추가를 시작했다.사용자:를 포함한 여러 편집자가 이러한 내용을 되돌렸다.여기서 407Kb를 삭제한 Diannaa는 "우리가 찾고 있는 콘텐츠의 종류가 아니며, 적어도 그 중 일부는 저작권 위반"이라고 요약했다.그 이후 여러 편집자에 의해 되돌아온 이 비소싱적이고 홍보적인 '정보'를 재삽입하려는 시도가 여러 차례 있었다.

나는 사용자 토크에서 COI에 대해 편집자에게 설명했고, 기사 자체를 편집하기 보다는 편집자가 무엇을 해야 하는지에 대해 설명했다.Ibkib#Abdulaziz Al-Babtain, Talk:Abdulaziz Al-Babtain#무소요 추가이해 상충사용자 대화:Arjayy#Abdul Aziz Al Babtain.이 충고는 완전히 무시되었다.

2월 4일 사용자:IbkibWP닷컴을 설립했다.그가 추진하고자 하는 것의 52Kb 버전을 붙여넣은 COTORRK 기사.나는 이것을 압둘아지즈 알-바빈으로 리디렉션으로 바꾸었다. 그래서 그는 압둘아지즈 사우드 알바빈에서 60Kb 버전을 만들었고 나 또한 리디렉션으로 바뀌었다.
2월 6일에 그는 사용자들에 의해 리디렉션된 압둘아지즈 사우드 알바빈(330kb)을 만들었다.NeemNarduni2, 사용자의 기사로 되돌아감:Ibkib⋅ 및 사용자에 의한 리디렉션으로 되돌림:NeemNarduni2 그리고 나서 그는 Abdulaziz saud AlBabtain을 만들었고, 이 또한 User에 의해 리디렉션되었다.넴나르두니2

'압둘 아지즈 알 바빈에 대한 정보를 삽입하거나 수정할 책임이 있다'는 이 사용자는 자신의 버전의 기사를 위키피디아에 넣겠다는 각오로, 설령 다른 제목 아래 있다 하더라도 조언을 받기를 꺼리는 것 같다.사용자:와 같은 다른 SPA도 있었다.Sul59사용자:양말/고기 인형처럼 보이는 턴브레인.누군가 이것을 보고, 이 "정보"가 강제로 기사로 들어가지 않도록 조치를 취할 수 있을까? - 고마워 - 아르자나이 (대화) 19:35, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 보고해줘서 고마워, 알자야이나는 Ibkib이 조언과 경고를 무시하는 것처럼 보이기 때문에 무한정 차단했다.나는 그들이 대화 페이지가 있다는 것을 알지 못하는 것이 오래된 문제라고 생각하지 않는다. 왜냐하면 그들은 이 메시지에 응답했기 때문이다.그들이 그것을 요청하고 당신이 그들에게 말해온 것에 대해 어느 정도 이해를 보인다면 그들은 차단되지 않을 수 있다.나는 압둘아지즈바바텐을 감시하고 있지만, 언제나 그렇듯이, 우리는 관련 내용이 있는 새로운 기사들을 경계하기 위해 낯선 사람들의 친절에 의존한다.당신이 언급한 다른 계정들이 계속해서 문제가 있다면 나에게 알려줘. 그러면 CheckUser에게 물어봐야 할 것 같아.비쇼넨 토크 21:55, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[답답하다]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

여러 번의 경고에도 불구하고 반복적인 인신공격

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

한 IP는 그것에 대해 적어도 세 명의 편집자로부터 여러 번 경고를 받았음에도 불구하고 인신공격을 반복해 왔다.그의 가장 최근의 공격은 [83]이다.이는 차단해 달라고 애원하는 것으로 해석될 수도 있다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 23:34, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

그는 아마도 디펜소르피델리스와 같은 사람이다.Tgeorgescu (대화) 23:36, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

그는 그러한 경고에 주의를 기울이겠다고 거짓으로 약속했다: [84].Tgeorgescu (대화) 23:47, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

[85]에서 동일인이라는 것을 인정한다(이전의 토크페이지에 대해 이야기함).Tgeorgescu (대화) 23:50, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

[86]의 가짜 사과 (또 다른 공격 이외에는 아무것도 아니다)Tgeorgescu (대화) 00:02, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 그의 등록된 계정은 그의 IP 편집을 대체한 것으로 보인다. 따라서 이 ANI를 제출하기에는 너무 이르지 않을 수 있다(그는 단지 15개의 비사용자 페이지를 편집했을 뿐이며 당신은 새 계정의 행동에 대해 어떠한 차이도 제공하지 않았다).만약 그 행동이 계속된다면, 그 때는 ANI를 제출하거나 사용자나 더그 웰러에게 알릴 시간이 될 것이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 12시 48분, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 디펜소르피델리스가 "반신론자, 반유대인 또는 반기독교인 기고자에 의한 또 다른 고의적인 소스 자료 오보"를 포함한 편집 요약을 작성한 이 여기에 있다.더그 웰러 토크 14:13, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
      • IP는 오늘 18시 4분에 UTC에서 차단되었지만, 그 계정은 어제 일찍 만들어졌다.내 의견으로는 72시간 블록을 계좌에 넣어야 하는데, 그래, 똑같아.더그 웰러 통화 20:45, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
        • 정확히 말하면 디펜소르피델리스는 어제 17시 12분에 편집을 시작했다.그들이 사용자 페이지의 사용자 상자를 빨리 찾았다는 것이 흥미롭다.위에서 언급한 공격은 어젯밤 21시 29분에 이루어졌기 때문에 편집자는 IP로서 동시에 계정을 가지고 편집하고 있었다.더그 웰러 토크 21:03, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
확실히 신규 사용자가 아닌 그는 2014년 엑소더스 편집 전쟁으로 IP가 차단됐고, 최근에는 같은 기사에서 편집한 뒤 차단된 상태다.[87]을 참조하십시오.Tgeorgescu (대화) 22:29, 2016년 2월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
분류됐어, 꽉 막혔어더그 웰러12:37, 2016년 2월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

호주산 덤불꽃 에센스

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

저번 주에 이 건에 대해서 글을 남긴 줄 알았는데, 못 찾겠으니 다시 한 번 해 볼게.위의 글은 최근에 삭제되었지만, 삭제 후보로 지명되었다는 통보를 받지 못했다.내가 알려야 하지 않았을까?

사르다카 (대화) 06:29, 2016년 2월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

언어 카테고리에 무분별한 기사 추가

다른 사용자가 사용자를 차단할 수 있는지 여부:비벡 사르제 지금?는 무분별하게 엄청난 양의 기사를 카테고리에 추가했다.우안팔라 가지 요청에도 불구하고 힌디 단어와 구절은 그렇게 하지 말라는 설명이었다.

NB: 아마도 그는 이미 그만뒀을 것이다; 그의 기부자 명단에서 주어진 시간은 내가 그의 토크 페이지에서 보는 시간보다 한 시간 늦은 것 같다.조슈아 조나단 -얘기하자! 15:16, 2016년 2월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

골베즈

골베즈 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

골베즈는 "어떻게 되야 하는가: 사람들은 빅터를 무시하고 이 대화 페이지를 정치 대신에 그 페이지를 토론하는 사업에 돌려놓는다.으로 일어날 일:The Virginia Historistan, The Four Deuce는 빅터가 그의 첫 자유주의 정치가 얼마나 잘못되었는지에 대해 그에게 대답할 것이고, 빅터는 공화당이 얼마나 멋진지, 그리고 자유주의자들이 얼마나 사악한지에 대해 또 다른 몇 개의 단락으로 답할 것이고, 이러한 헛소리는 끊임없이 계속될 것이다.[88]

I told Golbez to remove the personal attacks,[89] and he replied, "Yay, adult supervision!"[90]

This is part of Talk:United States#Edit break for Proposals, where VictorD7 asked editors to choose between two alternatives. I opposed both.[91]

Golbez's comments are not helpful and I would ask other editors to explain that to him.

TFD (talk) 05:10, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments like this are pretty uncivil, but I'm not sure it's a personal attack. I also think this is a content dispute, not a matter for ANI. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 05:13, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since we're here... There is a discussion on the talk page as to how to describe the political parties. I'm guessing that roughly 90% of it is incessant political arguing, mostly from VictorD7, but then people - sometimes TheVirginiaHistorian, sometimes our friend TFD here - will respond, and the cycle starts again. It's less a content dispute and more a massively-off-topic dispute that is really monopolizing the traffic of the talk page. It's clear I'm over it. I just don't have the energy or, frankly, knowledge to do anything about it; where does one go to complain that a talk page is being abused? Here? Hardly seems like an admin issue at this juncture. But it is an issue. So, I offer my pointed complaints as to how they're conducting themselves. I know my remarks are not helpful, but yet they are somehow more on topic than what the remarks are snarking against. But considering I have an intense dislike for the three loudest voices in the talk page, I suppose I should do what I said I'd do, hit alt-W, and go on with life. I was once the top contributor to the article, but it's moved on, though not in a direction I'd like (well, the talk page has moved on... the actual article, very little gets accomplished there, in large part because the talk page is so toxic). --Golbez (talk) 05:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Old-as-dirt content dispute. Golbez is right that the talk page is toxic, though. Nevertheless, definitely not an ANI matter. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 06:11, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If there is a conduct issue, such as toxicity on the talk page, anyway, arbitration enforcement is a better forum than here for matters that are under discretionary sanctions. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Golbez could probably stand to phrase his commentary in a fashion less likely to bait acrimony (especially given how disinterested he claims to ultimately be in the proceedings), but I'm not seeing a behavioural or civility issue here that even remotely rises to the level of requiring community intervention; certainly I see nothing which represents a WP:NPA violation. I dare say, on the basis of what has been presented here so far, that there is more disruption implicit in bringing such a minor personal dispute to ANI than in anything Golbez has said or done (again, in so far as the complained-of behaviour is concerned). The only action that seems appropriate here, insofar as ANI is concerned (other dispute resolution forums may be useful, as others have suggested) is a therapeutic trouting with the hope that it might promote the growth of some thicker skin. Happy to revisit my opinion if the community is presented with more diffs or context, but that's how I see it presently. Snow let's rap 02:11, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Remove content

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Could someone blank a violating WP:BLP posting to Talk:"Weird Al" Yankovic‎ Trackinfo (talk) 10:51, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looks like you already did. If you are asking for WP:REVDEL, I don't think it warrants it, although the editor (who has placed it there twice) may need a further warning/explanation on his talk page and if he doesn't stop, possibly a block. Softlavender (talk) 10:59, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know how BLP-hurt Weird Al would be over this--but let's not, Pete Basschild, that Wikipedia pages--any of them, not just article pages--are not the place for poorly sourced original research and speculation. I mean, I heard that pepperoni was gay, because those slices all look so masculine and cuddle together so nicely in the package, but such speculation really has no place here. Drmies (talk) 16:12, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pete Basschild looks like a classic troll to me. On his userpage, he is claiming to be "a man of the cloth", and on his talk page, he is responding to editors comments with vile language? Add to it the weird stated single purpose listed on his userpage and I think there is quite enough here for a NOTHERE block. I have notified him as should have been done earlier. John from Idegon (talk) 20:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, and he looks very familiar. It's been a long time since I frequented SPI but I swear that profile is ringing bells. The user page describing himself in some unusual and clean way, being one of his first edits (2nd in this instance). I wouldn't block for that since I don't have better linkage, but I don't think it will be long before he is blocked for trolling. Dennis Brown - 01:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blocked as the block-evading User:Nesmith74. The history of Talk:"Weird Al" Yankovic‎ is littered with this lameness, including the "my wife is sick" crap. If someone feels adding this to the SPI page for posterity is useful, or tagging the account is useful, please feel free to do so. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yup, that is the one I remember. Thanks for picking up the slack. Dennis Brown - 02:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Protracted edit war at Football records in Spain

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

After two WP:AN3 reports were largely ignored (see here and here), I'm taking Ymblanter's recommendation and taking this to ANI. Despite three rounds of fully protection and two blocks each, Suitcivil133 (talk · contribs) and SupernovaeIA (talk · contribs) continue to edit-war over whether or not the Inter-Cities fair cup should be considered official. Their edit summaries, and comments in the previous WP:AN3 reports, as well SupernovaeIA's unblock request and comments on the talk page make it very clear that neither of them understand that they've done anything wrong or that either of them is interested in seeking consensus on the issue. Additionally, SupernovaeIA has engaged in sockpuppetry, using 2001:620:D:4AD2:0:0:0:323 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) to continue the edit war. Suitcivil133 has threatened meatpuppetry if blocked. The personal dispute between these two dates back to at least December 2014. Under these circumstances I think a lengthy block is necessary to prevent further disruption. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The core of this dispute is simply that my opponent is a multiple sockpuppet (now confirmed by the moderation on Wikipedia - at last!) who has engaged in vandalism on several Wikipedia pages. He is moreover making false accusations towards my person and accusing me of sockpuppetry which has never been the case as he thinks that this will somehow make his arguments stronger.

The thing here is very clear. I am protecting the status quo of that article which has been upheld by numerous editors for years. I have used a primary source (FIFA.com which is the highest football authority) to confirm the fact that FIFA indeed recognizes the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup as a major and official club honour. Other references have been used in the past too to confirm this but for the past many, many months that reference (FIFA.com - primary source) has been deemed sufficient by all the habitual editors until that individual (under AT LEAST two usernames) started making changes and removing sourced material. His changes only confirmed what is already known (and what is mentioned on that page already) - that UEFA does not recognize the ICFC as an official trophy (they do however recognize it as the predecessor of the now defunct UEFA Cup) but that is in fact not crucial as the "Football Records in Spain" page deals with trophies that are recognized not solely by UEFA but the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) AND FIFA as well. If one of those 3 football governing bodies have recognized a trophy - it has been included.

May I moreover mention the fact that the page dealing with football records in England have included the ICFC as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_England

I guess that this Nepali suckpuppet user will blame me for that as well although I have nothing to do with that inclusion.

Aside from this, I already tried to talk sense with the sockpuppet user and told him that I will take his side as long as he proves that FIFA does not recognize the ICFC. He has so far failed to do so.

I am also open for an objective and knowledgeable arbitrator to take an decision about this topic based on primary references and evidence so this dispute will end once and for all.

I have even personally contacted FIFA but I am yet to receive a reply and unfortunately I doubt that I ever will.

Additionally I have never had any problems with any other Wikipedia editor other than that individual. Lastly if you guys want to ban me then ban me from that Wikipedia page not from editing in general as I have not caused any problems elsewhere. I am a senior editor (an editor since 2010 if I recall) who is updating/editing a few pages on a weekly basis. Iam not a troll or sockpuppet.

If an objective and knowledgeable arbitrator had not ignored this dispute and not ignored me pointing out that my opponent was/is a sockpuppet with a history of disrupting Wikipedia pages due to his Real Madrid bias, I would not have continued. I was more or less forced to take a stance against his vandalism.

P.S. I don't know what "meatpuppetry is @Sir Sputnik (I don't know how to mention users here) nor have I made any threats whatsoever!

Suitcivil133 (talk) 23:27, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Suitcivil133, ANI is not a forum to weigh content decisions. You should take your arguments to the article talk page or dispute resolution. ANI is a noticeboard to alert admins to misconduct. Will you read Wikipedia:Edit warring and Wikipedia:No personal attacks and refrain from both even when you feel provoked? If so, a topic ban might not be necessary. LizRead! Talk! 23:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I should also add that SupernovaeIA (talk·contribs) is currently blocked. Could someone please conditionally unblock them so they can participate in this discussion. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sir Sputnik, conditionally unblocking someone for x reason is not permitted. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 00:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for that. I was not aware of this. However I want to say that this topic has been discussed to death but so far no authority has taken a definite stance on this issue which is what is lacking. This is unfortunate as such a decision taken by the right person (an objective and knowledgeable arbitrator on this field) would end this dispute once and for all. At least this is what I believe.

However I believe that I have a quite strong case as I am using a primary source (FIFA.com) that confirms my interpretation while my opponent has been unable to prove that FIFA does not recognize the ICFC. I for once want to know what is the truth as well out of interest. My participation in the dispute is more out of principles and due to an unfortunate history with that multiple sockpuppet user and his history of disruptive editing using various usernames which I and other editors have been combating successfully.

I am only interested in facts. If a knowledgeable user is able to find primary sources or adequate references which showcase which party is correct and it turns out that I am wrong, then my participation on that field will end and I will admit "defeat" and accept that I was wrong. That's all I am asking for. I think that this dispute should be decided by senior editors on the Wikipedia "Football Project Page". If I recall this is the name.

Sir Sputnik might be helpful here or a moderator. Or maybe others will be more successful in contacting FIFA about this topic?

Thanks.

--Suitcivil133 (talk) 23:47, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Liz was quite clear in her instructions. You need to take this to dispute resolution. Per your own admission, you have been edit warring too. All that can happen here is you, other users or both will get blocked. Failure to listen to the instructions you have been given here twice now could in and of itself lead to a block. This is not the place. Could someone please close this before someone else shoots themself in the foot? John from Idegon (talk) 00:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Multiple IPs adding copyvio images and completely unverifiable information to articles

At Nevzat Halili, multiple IP addresses have been adding an inappropriately-uploaded image to the article. The uploader of this image has been blocked on commons for uploading such images as his own work. It would seem that the uploader and these IPs are the same individual. Also at Republic of Ilirida, the same group of IPs have been adding an infobox containing a flag and coat of arms that were uploaded with no sources backing their validity. It also contains unverifiable information since the "republic" is more of a concept and has no defined borders or official languages, etc. --Local hero talk 17:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just realised that the uploader of these images that was just blocked on commons, User:Sinani milaim, is banned on the English Wikipedia for sockpuppetry. Therefore, all these IPs are likely sockpuppets. --Local herotalk 19:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Local hero, have you filed an SPI? ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:56, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I have, Oshwah. It's still open. The problem going forward seems to be his ability to use an infinite amount of IP addresses. --Local hero talk 16:44, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Revenge-reverts of multiple unrelated articles

After the latest episode in a debate that saw Lipsquid repeatedly reinstate content which he had previously even himself agreed didn't belong in the lede of Laffer curve, he now seems to have decided to "retaliate" against me for the revert (which, of course, is being discussed on the talk page) by making three of completely unrelated reverts to articles I had not seen him ever touch before; in all except one, he is undoing changes where I had removed non-lede-worthy content according to an actual incident here at ANI.

This is outright unacceptable and the editor in question isn't even trying to thinly disguise the fact that these consecutive reverts, all in one night's spain, are a simple retaliation (I suppose he hasn't read WP:HOUNDING maybe). It's made more blatant by the fact they include reinstating of things that were reported at ANI as bogus/disruptive edits.

The reverts in question are [92], [93] and [94] (about this last one, I note that primary sources are of course fine for showing the existence of something, and that they are being used right next to the things he reverted for similar things, but he didn't have a problem with those apparently; just saying).

LjL (talk) 14:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I did not make serial reverts, I undid edits that I saw as disruptive. I was unaware of the ANI discussion, but have read it now and still believe my reverts were good faith. LjL marked his edits as WP:UNDUE in the lead and removed the content. If someone believes that sourced content gives UNDUE in the lead, normally they move the sourced content out of the lead and into another section. LjL did not move the content, he deleted it. This is a pattern with him and disruptive behavior. If he had marked the edit as VANDALISM, I would not have reverted it. I actually still see the deletion of sourced content as disruptive and the better policy would be to move it elsewhere in the article or don't tag your edit as UNDUE. In the ANI itself, an Admin makes the statement about the alleged vandal "His edits appear to be in good faith, if perhaps in the wrong part of the article or accompanied by other problems. I would not immediately dismiss arguments citing WP:UNDUE, WP:RS, or WP:Recentism, but do not care to make them myself" Yet LjL did in fact mark his edits as UNDUE. As far as HOUNDING, which makes me chuckle, see my edit below. LjL isn't incompetent, he is a vindictive serial reverter with a long memory of past arguments. Lipsquid (talk) 19:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if Lipsquid did anything wrong or if they simply noticed that User:LjL was being disruptive on one article, so they decided to check the history of their contributions, but I think it's hillarious for LjL to come to AN/I to complain about WP:HOUNDING when they don't have an exactly clean record on this score themselves. In Nov 2015, I got into a dispute with LjL on the article November 2015 Paris attacks. He claimed consensus when they didn't have it (IMO). After about a week I shrugged my shoulders, dropped it, and moved on. LjL kept trying to make drama out of it but the whole thing died out simply because I ignored it. But then, almost two months later, when I had an argument with another user which wound up at WP:AE, LjL popped out of nowhere claiming that s/he was "at his wits end" in dealing with me (even though we haven't interacted for two months! even though I let them have their way on the Paris attacks article!) and demanded I be sanctioned [95]. The request was actually closed with no action.
Point being, if you act in a petty, immature, vengeful way yourself, you don't really have much of a right to show up at AN/I complaining that someone somewhere reverted you and you think that was "revenge".Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:23, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(and for the record I'm involved in the article Laffer Curve which is how I saw this posting).Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:27, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You can come up with ad hominems based on past incidents (the funny thing being you still insist there was no consensus for the thing you are hinting about, even in the striking presence of this, but whatever); what matters here and now is that Lipsquid literally reverted previous ANI consensus against edits universally agreed to be inappropriate (though possibly in good faith, yet with a potential COI), and did it just based on the fact that I was the one undoing them (since obviously, unless he's incompetent, which I don't believe, everyone else was in agreement those edits were obviously bad: do look at the report against JoeSakr1980 if you want to comment further).
Anyway, since this has resulted in the reinstatement of some of those "bad" edits, I'll be pinging the editors who intervened in the previous ANI report: @JoeSakr1980, EtienneDolet, Liz, Elie plus, Ian.thomson, and Jbhunley:. LjL (talk) 17:04, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not engaging in "ad hominens". I am describing your actions. The fact that they don't look good is your problem not mine. Oh, and good luck with that disruptive WP:CANVASSing you've got planned there. Maybe it's WP:BOOMERANG time here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wow is this pot calling the kettle black. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=685861157#Lipsquid_edit_warring_just_short_of_WP:3RR_with_very_personal_application_of_WP:RS_principles

"First reverts"? What are you talking about? I've been reverting countless edits on many articles. I also had started participating in the Laffer curve-related debates before this ANI. I am also pretty much entitled to see if someone who, in my opinion, is breaking policy (such as edit warring) in one place is doing the same in other places - that's not WP:HOUNDING, in fact it's explicitly mentioned there as not being. Note also WP:AOHA please. LjL (talk) 21:38, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
I also am entitled to review the edits of someone, who in my opinion, is breaking policy... Lipsquid (talk) 18:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not sure who follows whom, but at least on page Laffer curve User:LjL appears for the first time on October 9 to fix edit made a few hours before by User:Lipsquid [96]. No judgement about content; I never edited these subjects. My very best wishes (talk) 19:28, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, this is getting even funnier. So apparently after getting into a dispute with Lipsquid on Flat Earth, LjL followed them to cause trouble on the articles Supply-side economics and Laffer curve (I've been wondering what LjL was doing there as that's pretty out of their usual topic area - this explains it). And now they're complaining that they're being followed? Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to point out that LjL has a long track record and pattern of bringing baseless accusations to the WP:ANI boards rather than appropriately using the {WP:TALK]] pages to gain consensus. When any user reverts an edit (and if he had bothered to ask for reasons, he would have received them) such users are either brought here as WP:BOOMERANG or they are called "trolls" among other ad hominem [[97]]. As you will see from that last link, LjL has abused the WP:TALK pages to "grand-stand" and states repeatedly there are users he is unwilling to " engage with, because of previous personal reasons" rather than discuss the article. This user needs to realize when others point out his errors in English grammar or disagree with his reverts it is not a personal attack, and stop the disruptive behavior of taking everything to the WP:ANI simply because he is not mature enough to talk things out. Frankly, if he is unwilling to participate in discussions resulting from his edits, then he does not belong here.Trinacrialucente (talk) 21:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All there if you follow the contribs, I angered him on an edit on October 9th on the Flat Earth article and he has been following me around and reverting me since... Can't hide from the logs. I would like to see a BOOMERANG topic ban on Supply-Side Economics related pages for LjL to discourage bad behavior.. Lipsquid (talk) 21:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree. He initially followed me around (wouldn't call it WP:HOUNDING and did some reverts, ask for citations (already mentioned in previous sections of an article) etc, then got upset when I took a look into what he was up to (which was essentially a lot of bad English grammar and intervening in disputes which he had no part in to antagonize other editors). I would support your topic ban, but also feel based on his constant abuse of WP:ANI, ad hominem, unwillingness to discuss topics appropriately, and misuse of WP:TALK pages that he should get a 72-hour "cool-off" WP:BLOCK.Trinacrialucente (talk) 21:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Lipsquid:, Trinacrialucente:"I would like to see a BOOMERANG topic ban . . . for LjL to discourage bad behavior." That sounds like you want a ban on the user as punishment. Isn't that not allowed? --Mr. Guye (talk) 04:47, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What is it that you assume that a BLOCK is? A reward? Incentives, both negative and positive, are used to alter behavior. People can make up nice wording (labels) for concepts if they like, but that is still how the world works. A BLOCK is a means to alter bad behavior, the label we use (punishment, cool-off, whatever) doesn't change the root concept. A WP:BLOCK is in order Lipsquid (talk) 05:07, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A topic-ban from starting AN/I threads would be a good start as a preventive measure.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:14, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A topic ban to give some space and allow things to blow over, assuming the person is capable of letting things go, would certainly be welcome. Lipsquid (talk) 07:22, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Look, any admin at this point is of course free to do what they want, including a "topic ban" (from just about everything? so a block, I guess) on me, since really, my ability to edit Wikipedia is not worth losing my sanity over these three particular people, Trinacrialucente constantly mocking my English just because he saw I used to have an "Italian native" user box on my page (his Italian is horrid but he kept talking to me in Italian even though I repeatedly asked him not to, and he also kept writing to my user talk page after I said he was NOT welcome there, and the other two jumping on any chance to bite back, and Lipsquid reinstating disruptive edits against ANI consensus (note that they have been reinstated again now by Someguy1221: [98], [99]; are you going to revert them again, Lipsquid?). I throw the towel, I give up, I wish one of the reasonable people I've met here, namely NeilN, could have a look at all this, but he isn't around, and that the people who previously handled the incident involving Economy of Uruguay etc. showed up to object to these arbitrary reverts, but they aren't, so really, do what you want. I honestly wish what you wanted is to go to hell, but that's not up to me. I'm done. LjL (talk) 16:08, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What more does anyone need to see to know the community needs to be protected from this guy until he can get his head straight? Lipsquid (talk) 17:49, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Let's see, now we have one more gratuitous revert where he re-adds material that I had removed from Popcorn Time because it was purely sourced from a blog (and there is an actual danger as there currently appear to be two competing Popcorn Time "factions" accusing each other of shipping malware, so we definitely don't want to endorse one as legitimate without very very valid sources). Who's damaging Wikipedia? You really have no shame. LjL (talk) 18:29, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot to mention you first had another gratuitous revert on the same material that brought us here. More pot calling kettle black. At what point is enough, enough? Lipsquid (talk) 18:45, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Suspicious account holder

I keep seeing on music articles that I patrol an account name which consists of just numbers and letters, and it only ever makes a small amount of edits over a few days, or just one edit. After this, an account name of the same structure but different numbers and letters makes more edits in same fashion. They are usually unhelpful edits, but I can't work out why there are so many accounts like this. For example, on S&M (song), the account 2601:84:4601:84d1:9982:78f0:7f71:2b made two edits on 2 Feb, I reverted them, then the next day 2601:84:4601:84d1:b059:aea0:18f0:eb67 tried adding the content back again. I've seen this for months now. Someone must be creating multiple accounts and using them for a day or two, or it's a sock puppet. The same thing happened on 15 December 2015 on The Sweet Sweet Fantasy Tour by 2604:2000:9080:9100:703F:1F08:143F:8F49, and on 3 November 2015 on Rated R (Rihanna album) by 2601:86:400:2A61:C055:47D0:7F0A:ECF9. I'm sure it's the same person, the pattern is too regular in how they edit. — Calvin999 09:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: See IPv6 address. Keri (talk) 09:59, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So what does that mean in simple English? — Calvin999 10:11, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's a fancy new IP address. It's just like a normal IP address except it's bigger. --Tarage (talk) 10:13, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So it's the same person and the same account? Or the same person using multiple accounts? — Calvin999 10:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Each one is an individual IP, so either it's one person using multiple IPs, or a bunch of users using different IPs. Ask yourself the same question if they were just editors with IPs that looked like 123.345.583.574. Would you be worried? --Tarage (talk) 10:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If there were octets like 345, 583, or 574, I would be worried, but we know what you meant. :-) --David Biddulph (talk) 11:48, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If different IPs kept editing the same articles making the same kind of edits, then yeah. — Calvin999 10:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly what it is. They're just IP addresses (in an unfamiliar format) rather than registered accounts' user names. Keri (talk) 10:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's really irritating. — Calvin999 11:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned below, if things get too bad then a request for temporary semi-protection at WP:RFPP is the way to go. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 11:47, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The IPv6 addresses in the S&M article geolocate to the same part of New Jersey and to Comcast ([100], [101]). It's safe to assume that's the same person. The IP address at Rated R is also from New Jersey (though in a different but nearby part) and Comcast again, so maybe the same person. The IP address at the Sweet Sweet Fantasy Tour geolocates to Kansas and a different ISP ([102]), so probably not the same person (although my IP address does currently geolocate to Columbia, SC despite being in Hangzhou).
To be completely clear, they are not accounts, those are just a new IP address format (in other words, same ol' anon users as before, different packaging). As such, if things start to get really problematic at S&M (Song), the only real option will be page protection of some sort, since their IP address is about as stable as a drunk elephant on stilts. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your S&M (Song) IP is one person. See how the first four sets of numbers are the same? That's one network, or one end user. The other two IPs you're talking about, though, are two different networks than the first. We can rangeblock 2601:84:4601:84D1::/64 and get the first guy if he continues, but I don't think we're there yet. Katietalk 14:24, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Calvin999: - you said the edits are "unhelpful", if the edits are vandalism or otherwise disruptive, you can file a report at WP:AIV. - theWOLFchild 00:38, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attack by a WP admin

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Here a WP admin calls me a troll. My question was serious and was related to the topic at hand. Cla68 (talk) 18:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Brother... You know nothing's going to happen out of this, and masking the fact that you are reporting Jimbo is rather disingenuous. So, sorry to say, but you seem to be trolling for attention. Resolute 18:26, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Notified. Are you saying there are different rules for different editors? Cla68 (talk) 18:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am saying that you are proving his description of your actions to be rather accurate. Resolute 19:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • To be clear, Jimbo described your actions as "trolling", he didn't describe you as a "troll", which is how you characterized it in your report here. Hallward's Ghost (Kevin) (My talkpage) 18:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jimbo has for far too long been allowed to get away with these personal attacks. Time he was reined in. Eric Corbett 18:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you should take this to the board, who let this person on the board of directors anyways. Mrfrobinson (talk) 18:43, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Cla68, If you would like to avoid having your actions referred to as trolling, opening up a silly report like this is not the best response. In my opinion, your behavior is indistinguishable from childish trolling. Deli nk (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • What administrator action are you requesting? -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Cla68, what are you actually requesting? Tempting as it would be to post a {{uw-civil-qa1}} template on the talkpage of the man who coined the phrase "incredibly toxic personalities" for anyone who disagrees with him, realistically it would serve no practical purpose. I do feel that Jimbo's special superpowers are an anachronism which will one day need to be stripped from him, but "got a bit tetchy" isn't the casus belli for that particular reform. ‑ Iridescent 19:41, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"In my opinion, your behavior is indistinguishable from childish trolling," (from Deli) just about says it all. Jimbo's talk page is a valuable resource to Wikipedia, but there is a lot of trolling on it that can ruin the entire page if not kept in check. Like any other user Jimbo has broad discretion on moderating his user talk page. He also encourages others to help moderate the page. If Jimbo hasn't made it clear enough, let me be completely clear. Cla68 is not welcome at Jimbo's talkpage. Smallbones(smalltalk) 19:55, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • My apologies, I didn't provide the full background. On 28 April 2013, Jimbo Wales, a WP admin committed what appears to have been a BLP violation by insulting a real person on his talk page. He was subsequently asked to explain this rationale behind the insult on Quora. Jimbo did not respond. Today, Jimbo mentioned that he likes answering questions on Quora. So, I reminded him that there was one question that he hadn't answered yet. He responded by shooting my statement down the rabbit hole and said that it was "trolling." It wasn't trolling, it's a serious inquiry into why he violated BLP in regards to that journalist. WP admins, please police your own. Cla68 (talk) 20:26, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Question restored.

He responded by shooting my statement down the rabbit hole and said that it was "trolling.". Editors are generally given a lot of leeway in choosing what they want to keep or removed from their talk page and they are not obliged to respond to a post. It is unlikely that Wales will participate in this discussion to explain why he viewed your action as trolling but I don't believe it is a personal attack. In fact, editors that have reverted your edit on that talk page have called your acts "harassment" and it is interesting that you are not bringing them to ANI as I'd think you'd see that as a personal attack as well. Liz Read! Talk! 20:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Cla68, I think you are wasting time and effort here. Surely, your talents are needed by one of the presidential candidates right now? :) . Count Iblis (talk) 21:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On another website, Cla68 just described this ANI thread as "some comedy gold." I can't say whether he is referring to his starting of the thread or the replies he's received as comedic, but either way it's clear that nothing useful is going to come of this discussion. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:08, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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More than one account question

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I know when someone has more than one registered account (I do not), they have to note that on their user page... What about an IP? I've only just now realised that sometimes I edit from my IP (we're talking less than 50 edits between now and July 2014). It's just whenever I get kicked off after being logged in for 30 days and then edit without noticing. Once I notice, I log in but... do I need to have that IP listed on my user page? Thanks in advance.Cebr1979 (talk) 21:58, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am not certain about the answer, but I am certain that these kinds of questions belong to the Village Pump. This has nothing to do with incidents with a user. Callmemirela🍁{Talk} 22:02, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... "Village Pump?" If you can direct me to wherever/whatever that is, I will gladly move this there!Cebr1979 (talk) 22:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Go right over yonder: WP:VP. RickinBaltimore (talk) 22:14, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Found it! Moved here. Thanks.Cebr1979 (talk) 22:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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104.153.240.142 / 107.92.58.69 -- vandalism

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Many of the contributions of this IP are less than helpful, e.g. [103], [104], [105].

I should note that this IP [106] made the exact same edit as the first of the list above. [107]. --David Tornheim (talk) 22:32, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the right place to report it? --David Tornheim (talk) 22:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That would be WP:AIV. Blackmane (talk) 23:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Senor Cuete at Talk:Maya civilization

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In September Senor Cuete (talk · contribs) tried to rewrite the Calendar section of Maya Civilization a recently promoted FA. His suggested rewrite contradicted the source used by the article, and provided no source in support of the proposed changes. After [short discussion on the talkpage, in which he falsely accused Simon Buchell (talk · contribs) of plagiarism, and in which I found two additional sources in support of the article's statement, he gave it up. But this week he came back and reinserted the same edit and a factual accuracy tag.[108] Again he provided no sources. I reverted and started a talkpage discussion[109]. He started another discussion thread on the talkpage immediately becoming personal calling me a bully who was trying to own the article and carrying out a vendetta against him (presumably a vendetta over the previous dispute which he abandoned without concluding it).[110][111] I provided further arguments, and he provided further insults. I started an RfC to get outside input, and I contacted to experts, one of them the author of the article that Senor Cuete claimed I had misunderstood. The experts were able to correct me on details of my understanding of the topic, specifically they agreed with Senor Cuete that the original source was not entirely correct - but neither was Senor Cuete's claim. I added the improved understanding to the article, and modified the RfC to reflect it. Today Senor Cuete posted a long rant full[112] of personal attacks at the RFC in which he accuses me of all of the worst - being a pseudoscientific bully, a liar, and of deliberately adding OR. I asked Senor Cuete to redact the personal attacks[113] which are defamatory. He has not done so, and so I request an admin to redact his personal attacks and explain to Senor Cuete how policy works and how we expect wikipedians to deal with content disputes.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:42, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you should simply ignore the personal attacks, Maunus? I remember you calling me a hypocrite and a moron, and I never payed much attention. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 21:41, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is a valid point. I have also used harsh language against him. But the more frustrating part is his unwillingness to abide by policy, and to use actual arguments. Seriously his only argument in an entire paragraph is ad hominem. I like to think that my personal attacks tend to be accompanied with some actual arguments - my attack against you certainly was. But in the end you are right, it is just words. I retract my request here. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 00:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Wholesale reversion by Beyond My Ken of edits made by ATinySliver

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Beyond My Ken is engaging in wholesale reversions of the removal of "cremated/cremation" from the Resting place parameter of Template:Infobox person. The template instructions say "Place of burial, ash-scattering, etc." and cremation is not a place. BMK further argues that I needed consensus to remove demonstrably incorrect data from encyclopedia pages as per policy and the template instructions. I would ask that BMK stop, and restore the edits. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 05:48, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User reported to AIV for what will amount to some 400 cases of willful, deliberate reintroduction of factual errors in contravention of Wikipedia policy. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 06:16, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Tiny Sliver made controversial edits to over 300 articles -- involving the use of "cremation" in the "resting place" parameter of infoboxes -- without taking a single step to receive a consensus to do so. When I told him on his talk page [114] that such an action was not the way large-scale changes are made here, that he needed to start a centralized RfC to get the consensus he needed to make these edits, his response was "...my edits are complete. They should not ever be restored..." [115], basically blowing off the need for a consensus of editors to make a specific change to a large number of articles. I told him then that I would revert his edits [116], and this I have done.
If ATinySliver continues to think that this is an important change to be made to this articles, he can open an RfC, discuss the issue with other editors, and, if they agree with him, receive the needed consensus to make the changes. If that happens, I will be happy to do my part to restore the edits, even though I disagree with his point of view (although I do understand it). I have, in fact, restored the status quo ante so that a consensus can be determined, which I believe was the correct thing to do. There was no "vandalism" involved (ATinySliver is advised to read WP:Vandalism), and the use of rollback was fully justified, as the explanation for the reversions was made in a central place -- his talk page -- as required. This is, in fact, a non-issue, and the ball is in ATinySliver's court to open an RfC -- I described the process for him on his talk page -- and move forward. BMK (talk) 06:31, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The argument is phony, and is an attempt by this editor to justify some 400 examples of vandalism; there is nothing remotely "controversial" about removing factual errors from Wikipedia articles, both in keeping with Wikipedia policy and the template's instructions. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 06:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have put neutral pointers to this discussion on the talk pages of WikiProject Biography, Template:Infobox Person, and Centralized discussions. BMK (talk) 06:49, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
After the vandalism behind the status quo ante straw man? Nice ... 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 07:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There was no vandalism -- as you would know if you ever actually read WP:Vandalism -- but there was a lack of respect for editorial consensus on your part, which has now been rectified by the return of the status quo ante by me and the creation of an RfC by Ricky81682. BMK (talk) 08:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Start an RFC on this discussion and move on. [[Template talk:Infobox person] seems like a good place and then people can announce it on the various template talk pages. I don't care who started it but can both side agree to (a) not add more creation resting places or to (b) not remove any more? Diffs of examples would be helpful but looking at the ones removed like this I'd say ATinySliver has a point that "Cremation" would more akin to saying "Burial" than an actual resting place but BMK is right that this was the status quo. So ATinySilver was WP:BRD, it was reverted and now it's time to "D"iscuss. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ricky81682, I appreciate the comment, but consider: "status quo" cannot and should not be used to obfuscate the deliberate reintroduction of factual errors—and this is especially true given that the editor reverted them wholesale, as opposed to analyzing each edit on its merits. There can exist no good faith in "you didn't gain consensus [to remove factual errors] and therefore I'm going to revert them all", which together with their reintroduction constitutes vandalism, and on a massive scale. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 07:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it depends on what is a factual error. The example did have reliable sources saying that the person was cremated. The fact that "Resting place = cremation" is a bit odd and doesn't make sense in the infobox I wouldn't call a factual error. If there wasn't a source that the person was cremated, then I say it should be removed. BMK, can you at least agree with that? Otherwise, just have the discussion. I think we'll probably end up renaming "Resting place" to something that includes it, but maybe we'll get rid of the cremations so let's see what people think is the best way forward. Can both sides just not call this vandalism and work towards a resolution? Maybe a separate parameter on this to separate burials versus cremations or whatever but frankly I find that much in the infobox a bit odd in the first place. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) FWIW, I proceeded from the incontrovertible fact that a cremation is not a resting place; nothing more, nothing less. (In many cases, even the cremation was not sourced, but I chose to simplify the work with a handful of edit summaries.) Meantime, I too have suggested that the parameter be presented differently—while the "I'm just going to revert them all" was ongoing. You'll have to forgive me if the presumption of good faith was impossible to maintain ... 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 07:53, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) @Ricky8162: Oh sure, it may well be that the parameter "Resting place" needs to be changed, or a "cremation" parameter added. I have no problem with that -- but I will note that an overly pedantic and strict interpretation of parameter names is not particularly helpful to the encyclopedia. It can easily be construed, for instance, that "resting place" means something on the order of "what happened to the body", in which case "cremation" is a perfectly reasonable entry. (And "resting place" itself is such an awful euphemism in any event.) But these are arguments for the RfC that Ricky has now started, and ATinySliver should have, and I will make my arguments there. BMK (talk) 07:56, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you proceed from a fallacy: under no circumstances should I have started a discussion to remove factual errors. Indeed, rather than engaging in the wholesale destruction of the encyclopedically correct, you should have. 🖖ATinySliver/ATalkPage 08:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no intention of arguing with you what should properly have been discussed at an RfC before you ever began your edits, so I see no purpose in continuing this here. Tomorrow's a new day, and I'll make my opinions known in the RfC at that time. BMK (talk) 08:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I started an RFC at Template_talk:Infobox_person#RfC:_Should_resting_place_include_cremation. Please feel free to express your views there. People can still argue here if they wish about whether or not either edits were vandalism but I'm moving forward. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:42, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Same thing resumes as soon as last incident is archived

The best thing to explain this I suppose is to link here [117] and then here [118] and then here [119] and here [120]. At least as long as there is an incident on this board the user seems to be more polite. Any advice on what to do would be greatly appreciated. YuHuw (talk) 15:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • I hope that's not the best way to explain "this". Please don't send us on fishing expeditions. Drmies (talk) 18:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very sorry, I'm still new here but I should have thought through more and pinged the administrators who are already familiar with the history of this case. User:Wbm1058, User:Dbachmann, User:Tide_rolls, I am also sorry I can not get the Archive link to work better than that. It seems to arrive in the right place initially then suddenly jump three or four cases down for some reason. But the title is correct (Harassment_on_Talk_Pages_and_edit_summaries) Since nothing has changed, shall I copy and paste the whole thing here again? YuHuw (talk) 18:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, linking to the prior discussion Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive912 § Harassment on Talk Pages and edit summaries should be sufficient. Sorry, I see that nobody else besides me responded after you listed the diffs that concern you, as requested by Tide rolls. I don't like to see talk of "lining up the ducks on this meatpuppet." I view the term meatpuppet as derogatory and that should be used with care, in keeping with Wikipedia's civility policy. - Wbm1058 (talk) 18:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I will respond here to avoid a perception that "no comment equals disregard". I still see no harassment. I do see brusque language and what could be construed as less explanation that could be required for a newcomer. To be honest, the OP exhibits a rather oblique manner in which they communicate. This could be due to a failure on my part; I've been speaking English for over 50 years and still discover that I fall short on occasion. I'm simply not seeing anything actionable here. Tiderolls 20:29, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • I didn't know what I was supposed to see where. Where'd you learn that English of yours, Tide? Drmies (talk) 21:05, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • That'd be L.A. Lower Alabama. Tiderolls 21:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

At 23:27, 26 January 2016 Warshy asked YuHuw not to post on his talk page again.[121] Since then, YuHuw has made four edits to Warshy's talk page.[122] In this edit[123] to Warshy's talk page, YuHuw accuses @Vadcat: of being a sockpuppet of Warshy. When Warshy objects to this,at 15:24, 4 February 2016, YuHuw responds at 15:43, 4 February 2016 by posting a complaint at WP:ANI. If admins wonder who Vadcat is - try his contribution history on Russian wikipedia.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:40, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, meatpuppet sounds pretty nasty to be honest, at least certainly not civil :( but I suppose I should also just stipulate having revised my knowledge of WP:Meatpuppet that I am not "friends, family members, or communities" with that user. Yet it seems a group of friends from the same community appears to be ganging up on me though (or perhaps even on anyone/everyone who tries to disambiguate/clean up some of those messy articles).
I thought making a user account would be a fun way to engage with intelligent people on such topics, but am starting to think perhaps the socializing might not be as jolly as it seemed it might be. User:Tide rolls you did see that by equating me with that User over and over again they are calling me a pedophile right? YuHuw (talk) 21:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did not see that, no. Tiderolls 21:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was the very first diff I posted in response to your request at that time. Here I will post that reply again and bold it for you. But it is just a needle in the ever-increasing hay-stack so I won't including today's insults yet because I am tired and need to go to bed now but will add them tomorrow since it looks like the insults will continue all night with some more coming on my talk page now as we type. I will wait till they finish before adding them tomorrow.

Quoted text: "If someone continues to make references to you being a sockpuppet in talk pages and edit summaries again and again even when you ask them again and again to stop that is an harassment designed to prejudice other users against you (which has worked in this case with Warshy). Especially considering the things I discovered were suggested by the same users about the sock in question[124] the references are exceptionally insulting.

Here are the examples: edit summary insult edit summary insult edit summary and talk page insult edit summary insult edit summary and talk page insult edit summary insult talk page insult talk page references to suggest I am that despicable person discussion board insult apparently from Toddy1's IP based upon this dif [125] and the fact (s)he signed later [126] although he also completes User Nepolkanov's work sometimes too [127] talk page insult edit summary insult talk page insult anotther indirect reference to sockpuppetry more talk page insults same again edit summary insult talk page insult & canvassing more of the same more of the same more of the same canvassing refactoring my comments on talk page to confuse order suggesting need for more canvassing finally Warshy is convinced by Toddy1 and joins in the insults more of the same baseless prejudice suggestion that there is some sort of business agenda behind their aggression against those of us who might ask for un-sourced musings to be deleted strange comment in light of the business agenda about this being a nightmare

These Users' edit histories shows they does this type of conduct is his normal way of dealing with random users who challenge her/his edits or post things they do not like. If you want me to provide diffs it will take a long time since they appear to have done it really an awful lot of times but I will make a start collecting diffs if asked, although my objective is not to attack them for their conduct in general just get them to stop doing it to me. Afterall, there may be instances where their suspicions have paid off. Although other times they seem pointless [128]. It certainly seems Toddy1 has been misleading others but Nepolkanov (whose edit history shows only appears to deal with people who are not anti-Polkanov -a Crimean author- which is what Nepolkanov means "Anti-Polkanov") has not exactly been angelic in regards to being beyond hurling the insults -even though I had no idea about Polkanov when this began and don't even agree with Polkanov's ideas now that I know them. It seems Nepolkanov who decided that User:31.154.167.98 was User:Kaz for some reason simply got confused and thinks that is my IP. As a result he continued his insults towards User:31.154.167.98 [129], firstly against User:Wbm1058 [130] [131] and then became fixated on me after I agreed to take on the role of second author for the article as per his suggestion. For example: first apparent reference to me by use of phrase "your claims" as the despicable user again by use of term "your fake" same again canvassing support, trying to guess meaning of YuHuw while desperately concocting link to the despicable user this is difficult to understand because the URL is fake but it seems more desperation and he is calling me a "thief" in Russian although I may be wrong on this one another reference to the despicable user more canvassing and another ref to that user refactoring my comments another insulting ref to me as that user again declares his suspicion that I am the blocked user more refactoring my talk and more reference to me as the despicable user canvassing and still the same insult while apparently also saying I am so wealthy that I control the internet 0.o directly insulting me again by calling me that user again trying to claim I am not what I say I am

But at least Nepolkanov has engaged in (even if he is aggressive and belligerent editing) some useful discussion on the issues which need to be discussed, unlike user Toddy1 who does not really engage much at all. I don't want anything but to reassure them I am my own person and make sure they don't try such tactics again just because they don't like the challenge. I don't mind fierce debate, I believe thrashing out diametrically opposed views can lead to a clearer picture on foggy issues, but preferably without the insults to intelligence and without the horrendous and potentially damaging references. I didn't create an account to hide my light. I hope I have something that given time will shine here. Best regards. YuHuw (talk) 00:16, 28 January 2016 (UTC)"[reply]

But the behaviour YuHuw complains of, is behaviour he exhibits himself:
-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:55, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For admin attention :the wrong YuHuw's translation above of nick Nepolkanov as Anti-Polkanov (while actualy means not Polkanov) is erronious argument of blocked User Kaz.This charectirizing Kaz only repeated mistake is additional argument that YuHuw actually is Kaz's clone.Неполканов (talk) 23:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I got the translation from the number 1 hit when anyone googles your user name [132]
Concernign the "four edits" to warshy's wall which Toddy1 mentioned here they are a mandatory call to dispute resolution notice board, a mandatory call to ANI, my polite response to his resuming attacks against me based upon the insulting edit summaries since no one gave me any advice on how to deal with these things from last time I simply copied Toddy1's method as he seems to know how things work around here. If his method is bad please tell me and him so that other new users do not pick up bad habits from his style. I also understand that one should attempt to initiate a discussion before returning things to ANI. The response was that I should P***-off as he thinks I am a plague. I am really quite shocked at the level of instant hostility to me simply because I have been asking for discussion on sources. Finally number 4 is just another mandatory call to ANI. So whenever Toddy1 presents a link from now on I think everyone should definitely check the details which he tries to hide with spin. YuHuw (talk) 07:20, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As for Vadcat, judging from the user's edit history [133] he is indeed *very* sleepy here on English WP (a bit like Not-Polkanov). I doubt the two accounts are the same person. Unless someone who speaks Russian recruits him from Russian wikipedia as and when required for support? YuHuw (talk) 07:20, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And here are the incidents of insult to me which took place last night while I was sleeping (as I expected very rude rant the user who says Dunlop is not RS says in this edit summary and this comment that I am faking sources which he knows are just direct copies from Russian wikipedia. Just another couple of straws on the haystack mission to paint a bad picture of me to other users. here he refactors my talk page again here he lies in the edit summary to make it look like I am breaking rules which I have not. Not even Edit warring since the extensive discussed context of the edits he there pretends do not exist. again he calls me a thief in russian he calls me that pedophile again here he calls me the same pedophile again in the edit summary he makes reference to me as that pedophile (albeit mis-spelled) again. I'm getting very depressed as the incessant abuse is really grinding me down. My post here last week was to ask for advice, and this week too. Please Admins, I really want some amicable resolution which can make this constant abuse and harassment stop once and for all. Yours faithfully. YuHuw (talk) 07:20, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding what you call refactoring of your talk page...
I think that he made it clear that he strongly objected to your putting your heading above his text.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So if Warshy tells me not to touch his talk page (even though I must by wiki policy) that is fine, but I am not allowed to organize my own talk page? It means anyone is allowed to post any title on anyone's talk page and no one is allowed to correct it? I'm sorry I'm still new here, where is the wiki policy on this? YuHuw (talk) 12:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Wbm1058, User:Dbachmann, User:Tide_rolls if any of you might be around to catch up that would be gretly appreciated. YuHuw (talk) 17:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you were the person who had been being equated with an alleged pedophile I think you might understand better how horrible that feels User:Tide rollsYuHuw (talk) 21:25, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • YuHuw, I see that you have given ~four diffs accusing other editors of "refactoring" your comments above. Please explain to me what that means in the context of editing Wikipedia, and what are the rules and guidelines on that. I see you are asking what the policy on this is; can you search for it and link to it here? I'm wondering why you use the term refactor here, if you haven't read the policy, as it's not an everyday word outside this community (kind of like "disambiguate" in that regard). Wbm1058 (talk) 18:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Wbm1058, I understand the term re-factor to mean change the factoring. for example I recently tried to "factor" my talk page to be less rude (the first time I factored it I felt my heading was uncharitable so I changed it again) by finding the "factor" at the base of what the problem was but he changed that. So that is what I mean by re-factoring my talk page. Is that what you wanted me to comment on? I was trying to find a more polite and charitable heading. googling Wikipedia refactoring policy as you requested has given me this result WP:RTP but I can't understand if that is what I mean when I use the term or not.
In other cases my comments on talk pages have been factored somehow resulting in a slightly different presentation or outcome. For example Toady1 changes the base of what I did here [134] to make it look like something different had taken place. This example [135] is quite a bit more complicated than that which led me to miss some of his replies until I went through the history, even though my intention is to deal with every issue raised. I do not ignore. It might be a small thing but just like them appearing on every page I touch. It seems it would be better to quote me rather than chop about my original posts like that. I don't mind Warshy deleting my comments from his talk page (as I saw another user do that in the past without answering my comment I can't remember his name and am too stressed to go through and check) because after-all it is his talk page and replaced with uncivil language about me [136][137] (besides equating me with an alleged pedophile of course e.g. "plague" "psychotic" "sh*t" "religious fanatic" (though I have never state whether I have a religion or not) etc, and so anyway it is his wall, it seems he can do what he likes there am I right? But when my comments have been altered even though slightly on a talk page it is a bit unpleasant when the same users are equating me with a pedophile over and again as well as appearing on almost every page I try to edit. It really feels like I am being singled out or targeted. It is also weird that some of these users are IPs which appear once or twice then vanish or User accounts which checking through the contexts of their history only appear when Toddy1 needs support for some crusade or another on Ukraine-related topics. Is there a way to remove all these insults from wikipedia by the way? Being equated to an alleged pedophile is really a dangerous insult to throw at anyone. YuHuw (talk) 21:25, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I'm struggling to understand the meaning of "change the factoring". Factoring (동음이의) offers three options, and none of them seem to fit this context. Factor (동음이의) leaves me guessing, too. Is English your first language? How did you come to understand this meaning of "factor(ing)" – somewhere outside of Wikipedia, or is this something you learned from Wikipedia? I'm certainly uncomfortable with seeing that "p" word flying about here, but can we focus on this first? It's hard for me to follow all the accusations without investing a lot of time into research. Wbm1058 (talk) 00:23, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am glad someone else besides me is uncomfortable about that. Wbm1058, I'm sorry I am not familiar with exact meanings of all wiki terminology. I do regard myself as a near if not native English speaker though. Maybe I should have said changing the factor? This is my own understanding of the term factor. There was a lot to write and I tried to be as succinct as possible. Taking my talk page as an example, what is the common factor of Nepolkanov's post from both his point of view and from my point of view? He has a complaint. OK so that is the common factor. To change the common factor all one has to do is cut out one of the points of view. In that case the POV bias will shift the common factor. To re-factor a discussion in my understanding means breaking down the cohesion of a post which is talking around (trying to establish) a common factor and then re-assembling it in a way that the cohesion of the original argument (and with it the orgininal attempt to find the critical "factor") is lost. Is this not a correct use of the term re-factor in common English? Or as Toddy did, editing my quote of Nepolkanov's post to make it look like Nepolkanov's original post and thereby hide the efforts I have gone to to try and bring cohesion to discussions which have been splattered all over the place instead of held all together in as few relevant places as possible. It is but one element of the problem that the common base truth (fact) is being shifted by Toddy1's team to change the subject and present me as that alleged "P" rather than discuss the issues they have with anyone touching the pages they seem to want a monopoly on. I have only been asking for sane discussion on sources rather than a John Procter style witch-hunt where "Team Toddy" decides I am guilty and then tries to frame me somehow by changing the contexts (spinning attention away from the facts).
Meanwhile I see Toddy1 has finally started a sockpuppet investigation here Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Kaz so perhaps this will finally be my chance to vindicate myself to the Wikimedia offices. YuHuw (talk) 12:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

IP editor copying plot summaries from IMDB

183.81.9.244 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has been copying plot summaries from IMDB despite having been informed of policy on their talk page. Most have been wholesale copying of short summaries but there are also two blatant cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sapho_(film)&diff=703239775&oldid=682743476 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Almost_Married_(1932_film)&diff=703241505&oldid=685590583. To make sure that they weren't the original authors, I looked at the Wayback Machine version of two IMDB pages and found the plot summary already present. I've already gone through and reverted all their plot edits, the rest are just additions to actor filmographys or infoboxes. Opencooper (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The IP editor is still doing this. Block, please. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 10:01, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That edit took place five hours before Opencooper's post. — Diannaa (talk) 13:18, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

campaign to undermine the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of an organisation whose interests are in direct conflict

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I've just had an "interesting" message on my talk page [138] "You have been chosen at random as the next target for vandalism and trolling. Fear not, it is nothing personal, merely a campaign to undermine the Wikimedia Foundation on behalf of an organisation whose interests are in direct conflict. As such, I have been commissioned to select Users, in this case yourself, and to continually harass them until they leave before selecting a new target."

I've blocked the IP as a vandal, but does anyone know anything about this? Thryduulf (talk) 17:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's just a troll I'm thinking, trying to act "tough" RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:17, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That does seem likely as the block seems to have shut them up for now, but we'll see. Thryduulf (talk) 17:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously English form the text and the IP is a UK mobile gateway, are you in the UK? Guy(Help!) 18:03, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am. However the last troll I pissed off (to my knowledge) was from Texas. Thryduulf (talk) 18:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Massive socks prepared to attack
Same pest from UK IP addresses (usually dynamic Vodaphone blocks) that occasionally pesters me and a few other editors by reverting a handful of our recent edits. Might be the same primary schooler that kept posting messages to ANI warning about "his friend that was going to unleash a MASSIVE SOCK ATTACK" that caused massive amounts of yawning. Nothing that the occasional temp rangeblock can't handle. The only connection to User:Comeonbrowhy is that I'd reverted edits by that user earlier. OhNoitsJamie Talk 05:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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To avoid edit warring with IP

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On Game Show Network, an IP is continuing to add unsourced information to the page. I've reverted three times here, here, and here and to avoid edit warring, I thought I'd bring the issue to ANI. This isn't considered vandalism and I am assuming good faith. I requested the user provide reliable sources before restoring but this request was ignored. Seeking other users help. Thanks! Meatsgains (talk) 23:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're assuming too much good faith (not that I'm discouraging that). That's just vandalism, I've reverted and blocked the IP. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Persistent copyright violations by SeamusMadda

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The user SeamusMadda keeps posting unfree files on Wikipedia, all of which are related to Limerick and Cork in Ireland. Please see his talk page; this shows that several warnings have been issued to Seamus, almost all of which say that persistent violators will be blocked. He recently wrote an article which does not adhere to a neutral point of view - see Munster Derby: Limerick FC v Cork City. I would appreciate an admin's input on this matter. Kindest regards, --Ches (talk) 18:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • The key phrase being persistent. All those copyvios were on one day, three days ago. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Beeblebrox, precisely. I'm certain that he knew not to carry on as soon as he was notified of his first violation. --Ches(talk) 20:25, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that would explain why he stopped once the warnings began. Meanwhile, every upload seems to have come before he was warned and the images tagged and deleted. Nothing since, near as I can tell. So at this point the behavior has stopped - a block would be punitive and unwarranted. What administrative action are you looking for, exactly? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 20:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I will leave that up to the administrators. A block wouldn't be punitive, as he's fully aware of what he's doing. --Ches(talk) 20:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
uh, yes it would. We'd be punishing him for having done it before for a finite amount of time-- he should only be blocked to prevent further harm if he continues. 74.205.176.200 (talk) 20:59, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I notice that Ches is missing the point that this shouldn't have been opened up at all. This was a new user. This was not persistent. They stopped after first warning. There's no reason for a ban. But a block wouldn't be punitive, because although ches can't read contribution histories, they can read minds. Here's an interesting read for you Ches, WP:NEWBIES.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 22:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Tendentious Resubmission of Draft: Evan T. Schwartz by User:Blingblingboy1

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Blingblingboy1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The reported editor has been tendentiously submitted a draft for AFC review while ignoring the advice of reviewers, has stripped AFC comments and declines and an MFD template. The editor has also tried to submit the article directly to mainspace (while it was declined and pending MFD in draft space), but it was speedied. (Some of the tendentious resubmissions of the draft have been by an IP address, User: 173.165.233.165, but the pattern of behavior is so similar to it appears to be the editor editing logged out. )

Stripping AFC comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Evan_T._Schwartz&diff=prev&oldid=704139761

Stripping AFC declines: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Evan_T._Schwartz&diff=prev&oldid=704140639

Stripping MFD template: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Evan_T._Schwartz&diff=prev&oldid=704140967

Adding to disambiguation page for article not in mainspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evan_Schwartz&diff=prev&oldid=704158912

Recommend a block for disruptive editing both of the registered editor (who has been repeatedly warned) and the IP.

Robert McClenon (talk) 01:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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POV-pushing by Tore N Johansson

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Tore N Johansson (talk · contribs) is a single-purpose account dedicated to whitewashing Mikael Ljungman. By now he's edit-warring against the consensus established both at the talk page and at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive235#Mikael Ljungman, repeatedly re-inserting promotional content not based on secondary sources and violating WP:NPOV by shifting the focus of the article away from what reliable sources report about Ljungman. There were socks previously active on the article, but it doesn't really matter whether Tore N Johansson is the latest incarnation of this sock farm - the contributions by now are purely disruptive and show a complete misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works. I'm too involved to indef-block him myself. Huon (talk) 21:45, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is pretty bad, and I agree with Huon that an indefblock is appropriate. I've opined at the AfD and also in the BLPN thread that Huon mentions, and have asked Tore some pertinent questions on his page, so possibly I'm not the best admin to block him either. He denied having a conflict of interest when I asked; I may say I don't believe him, because in view of his editing it simply doesn't make sense. I also agree with Huon that the sock issue isn't important — this account hasn't in any case been created to improve Wikipedia. Bishonentalk 22:05, 9 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]
I'm not sure he is a sock, but he is undeniably a single purpose account with no apparent interest in following BLP policy on sourcing. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 22:46, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What Huon means with white washing is, you should not include (any) material that could be in conflict with the one notable focus of the article "Fraudster" and that the subject in general are a low-profile individual. The argument of white washing is based on his view: "Subjects notable only for one event" and "low-profile individual". This is a conflict in it self because it should be an argument for immediate deletion of the BLP article Mikael Ljungman. I'm not deleting any information about the subjects convictions of fraud, his involvements in tech "failures", I'm adding information about the subject that are related to the topics in the article, "convictions", tech companies and failures" and "politician". The WP policy of BLP is a guideline to protect the subject and the reader why added content and sources should be read and understood from those viewpoints. It's obvious to me and others that the limitation of the article to "fraudster" and "failure" and the deletion of any other of "sourced" material doesn't meet the BLP policy. The BLP should be written responsibly, cautiously, and in a dispassionate tone, avoiding both understatement and overstatement. Articles should document in a non-partisan manner what reliable secondary sources have published about the subjects, and in some circumstances what the subjects have published about themselves. BLPs should not have trivia sections. Huon viewpoint and standpoint is: if you ad content in conflict with "fraudster" (shifting focus from fraudster) or by simply adding content following the BLP policy on "well balanced articles" you are violating WP:NPOV. It's not the reader nor the BLP article Huon tries to protect. Besides the claim of whitewashing there is also a claim of adding promotional content. Huon have no doubts to use "fraudster", "failure" and other words that could be interpreted as negative by the reader. The promotion content disputed are related to "fraudster", "politician and political activities", "tech failures". There seems to be a general acceptance that the subject of the BLP article Mikael Ljungman is a politician. This means that the subject in not "only" a fraudster. There seems also be a general acceptance that the subject is a "businessman", some acceptance that the subject is a lawyer and no consensus if the subject is an inventor. The BLP subject has though applied for multiple patents (2) related to the Tech industry. It is a violation against the BLP policy to delete such information that could balance the article against the personification "fraudster". The information of patent applications balance the focus of "fraudster" and relates directly to the topic "tech industry". The paragraph of Patent application doesn't claim anything else than the BLP subject has applied for patents, its neither promotional, an overstatement or trivia. The information of "Political contributions" are related to political activities. It also balance against the the personification "fraudster". Is it to the articles benefit or in the readers interest to get more information about "political activities". Is it promotional in that negative sense does it misrepresent the person, does the article misleading the reader by adding such sourced content, no I don't believe so. Some part of the political activity is sourced by reliable sources, such as involvement in the Christian Democrats legal policy network. Other parts of the political activities thru social media is sourced by using the subject as self published source. According to BLP policy this ok if the whole article is not based on such sources. It was according to me supported by the BLP policy to add such content. It was also to the benefit of the article to follow to BLP guidelines and also for the reader to ad such content. It's not in WP:s interest to stupidize the reader. Finally there is a section in the paragraph "Association with Gizmodo" deleted because its claimed to be partly promotional and partly not relevant to this article. This section is relevant to the article especially to the subjects involvement in "high-profile tech failures". In regards to Gizmondo there are a lot reliable sources mention e that the company "failed" to reach the market with the console. The information added follows the BLP policy of balanced article. Is it a tech failure or a company tech failure. Failure and Gizmodo is a double negative. To ad information related to universities could not be seen as promotional, trivia, irrelevant to this articles focus. To delete this section is not in interest of the article, reader nor the subject. Tore N Johansson (talk) 09:05, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This serves well to show how Tore N Johansson misunderstands WP:NPOV and related policies. I have nothing to add, except to advise anybody reading the above to try and verify the claims for themselves, for example regarding the "political activities thru social media". Huon (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Legal threat

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User Liz1800 attempted to remove page protection from Wallingford, Connecticut [139]. There has been a history there of promotional edits, falsified statistics re: economic standing, and copyright violations, which I began to address today. I explained the situation, and received a legal threat for my troubles [140]. It was quickly deleted, but may merit some follow-up from an admin. Thank you, 2601:188:0:ABE6:2C58:C358:9E84:6E5 (talk) 01:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked per NLT. --Jayron32 02:04, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I've asked the administrator who protected the article--Krakatoa Katie, I think--to watchlist it, and perhaps you and others may do so as well. There's apparently a local imperative to sneak in and play with it. Imagine. 2601:188:0:ABE6:2C58:C358:9E84:6E5 (talk) 02:11, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Altercation" of the data? Something tells me that this person may not be who they claim to be. Lankiveil(speak to me) 10:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]
Apparently, you need to have "value ration" to know the truthfulness of data. Blackmane (talk) 01:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Blocking of Bank of America IPs

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Hi there,

I have tried to raise this with one concerned admin, but the conversation has now been archived. This is just as well, because I wasn't necessarily interested in that one incident, but more in working towards an improvement of the general situation. I'll copy my message below. Thanks for any insights.

I am an employee of Bank of America, and a long-time reader, donor and "anonymous" (though I prefer saying "unregistered") editor of Wikipedia. I only use a registered account when I need to upload images or other restricted access. Out of choice.

The company I work for is fairly big (200,000 employees), but it uses a very limited number of public proxy IP addresses, which are shared among all employees and consultants when they access the web from their desks. These addresses are periodically (and apparently randomly) reallocated globally throughout the firm. Currently my workstation is assigned the IP address 171.159.64.10, which is simultaneously assigned to very many other colleagues, I estimate in the hundreds or thousands.

This means that our collective unregistered contributions over time appear, externally, schizophrenic in their quality, swinging rapidly from very good to very bad. This situation exposes our IP accounts to long-term blocks. The above IP has been blocked from unregistered editing (and account creation) for almost 3 years, following an episode of content removal. As I rotate addresses periodically, I have seen many such examples of Wikipedia blocks from within my company, and in fact so far I've only come across one address that was not blocked, out of about 10 I checked.

I know, I know. I can create an account from home and use it at work. But this is missing the point. I am not raising this only because I want to edit Wikipedia from work. I am raising this because I don't want Wikipedia to miss out on good contributions from other colleagues - or indeed from users in other big organizations with a similar external IP address policy. I like to think that Bank of America attracts people who have something to contribute to this project, and the history of our unregistered contributions seems to confirm that. Obviously, as can also be seen from the history, it has its share of bad apples, too.

However, much in the same way Wikipedia administrators shouldn't block the IP address of an entire country for extended periods of time, wouldn't that apply to Bank of America's widely shared IP addresses as well? Shouldn't our IP user pages also carry a similar warning to administrators, to prevent this from happening again and again?

I welcome your thoughts. Disclaimer: I am writing to you on a personal, unofficial basis, and my views do not represent the views of the organization I work for.

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia and your consideration to my concerns. Kind regards.

80.189.23.110 (talk) 07:38, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm shocked -- shocked! -- to learn that employees edit Wikipedia on company time! EEng 19:19, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only way to fix this is for you to log in, I think. Abuse is abuse and we control it in the most efficient way we can. Guy (Help!) 08:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, there's not much that can be done when an organization uses private range IP addresses on what I presume is quite a massive scale. Three-year blocks are indeed long, but not at all uncommon with organizations that very well should have a lot of high-quality contributors. I understand where you're going with your analogy to country-scale blocks, but it's not an apt comparison. Unlike the residents of entire countries, BoA employees can go home and edit on their own time when blocked during working hours. As a person in the financial services sector, I'm sure you can understand the preference for stability at the expense of some improvement. For better or worse, some people have little alternative but to use accounts. Tor users, most students at secondary schools... certainly, a great many babies are being thrown out with the bathwater from those addresses as well, and that's unfortunate, but that's just the policy position Wikipedia has staked out. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 10:21, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This poster has just admitted that there are potentially thousands of individuals sharing the same WP account (an IP number). Why this sort of editing is regarded as unproblematic rather than IPs being banned outright and registration required by all is mind-boggling. Account-sharing, last I checked, was a very bad thing in the Wiki-cosmos, and the use of multiple accounts by a single editor (which happens every time the number is switched) highly undesirable. Carrite (talk) 13:01, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Allowing unregistered users to edit is asinine. Wikipedia could require registration of all, and it would still be living up to "everyone can edit". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:38, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
80.189.23.110, Thank-you for your polite request. I understand all the points you are making. You are obviously a person with the best of intentions and most likely of the highest ethics, and I apologize if the community's response is not as you had hoped. Please understand that most of us here spend a good deal of our time fighting vandalism and other unhelpful edits from IP address users and are perhaps a bit jaded, myself included. I think it is not unrealistic when I say that the ratio of "bad" to "good" IP address users is probably 10 to 1, perhaps more like 100 to 1. Of that 10% or 1%, consider the number who have seen the advantages to going ahead and continuing to improve Wikipedia under a new account that they decided to create for themselves. It's how all of us started. I personally invite you to log in when you edit and join the rich community of editors, a place you probably belong. If you have any comments or questions, feel free to leave another message here or on my talk page. Prhartcom (talk) 16:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the matter of whether allowing unregistered editors to edit is a mistake, I would just point out that Wikipedia has to block IP addresses that have abuse coming from them, even if some good edits also come from them. What is the original poster actually asking? They say that we are losing out on edits, but we are only losing out on edits by editors who won't log in or won't create accounts. Also, what is the original poster's reason for preferring to edit anonymously? Privacy? Privacy is a benefit of using a registered pseudonymous account. Unregistered editors show their IPs. I don't understand. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
80.189.23.110, Robert is right, and you are right by not calling IP users "anonymous". Unlike registered users, we can geolocate your IP address and see exactly where you are when you edit. Prhartcom (talk) 17:04, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not when they use open proxy servers to IP-hop all over the world. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This geolocate has singularly failed. It only locates to the United Kingdom. The giveaway that that is as accurate as it gets, is that the location shows that it locates to the Methodist church hall in Westminster (on the opposite side of the road to the Houses of Parliament). That is only because geolocate defaults to the capital of the country (London) where no further data is available. The Methodist church hall just happens to be at the geographical centre of London. 86.153.133.193 (talk) 18:12, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I once thought like Bugs, and was sure that allowing ips to edit was folly. But after years of vandalism reverting and checking contribs from ips, I came to the conclusion that they add so much more to Wikipedia than the frequent vandalism that occurs. It takes a lot of editors to devote time to reverting vandalism, and admins to block ip ranges, but in the end I think the good work outweighs the bad. Dave Dial (talk) 17:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I edited constructively as an IP for probably close to 10 years. I think my first IP edit was back in 05 or 06 to the Oscar Wilde article. That being said, in the time since I created an account, I've come around to Baseball Bugs way of thinking. On balance, I'd say that requiring account creation to be able to edit the encyclopedia would be a net positive. Hallward's Ghost (Kevin) (My talkpage) 18:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I too edited as an IP for a while before registering, and I'm not sure I would have ever got my feet wet if I'd had to go through the bother of creating an account before having the experience of actually editing. (Whether this is an argument for, or against, allowing IP edits I leave to my esteemed colleagues to decide.) EEng 19:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • IP blocks are supposed to be time limited for the very reason given here - they get reassigned and shift from one machine to another, so the longer the block the less likely it is to be blocking the intended target. As for the suggestion of forcing everyone to create accounts, I've never understood the logic behind the theory that vandals would be more deterred than goodfaith editors by the process of creating an account. To me it seems more likely that vandals will do the minimum necessary to vandalise. So requiring everyone to create an account would differentially lose more goodfaith edits than bad, as well as making much of the vandalism harder to spot. ϢereSpielChequers 19:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    To me, the logic makes perfect sense. The good-faith IP editors have a desire to help improve the project. That desire would translate into creating an account (which is a pretty straightforward process) if that's what was required to do so. The bad-faith IPs (vandals, trolls, etc.) would be less motivated to go through an extra step just to get a few kicks from replacing the text of Abraham Lincoln with "LOLZ he gots killt!" or whatever. Hallward's Ghost (Kevin) (My talkpage) 20:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks all for the interesting discussion. I happen to disagree with the ones who think that we should ban IPs outright. However, their argument is at least consistent. If you think that it's right to block some dynamic IPs for a long time, just because of some bad edits, knowing full well that that vandal will have jumped to greener pastures after a while, then you must logically favour blocking all IPs, i.e. require registration. But that's not Wikipedia's policy, so conversely it must be wrong to block dynamic IPs for a long time. Which is exactly what our blocking policy (and specifically the policy page about blocking IP addresses) says: "Most IP addresses should not be blocked more than a few hours, since the malicious user will probably move on by the time the block expires." There is also a specific mention about IPs belonging to "major corporations", so I am going to contact the Communications Committee and see what they think about this. 80.189.23.110 (talk) 23:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I think this is probably a more of a policy discussion than an ANI discussion. The solution to the OP's (and anyone else's in his situation) issue is very simple, and he knows it: Log in to his existing account, which he already uses. Suggest that this thread be closed, particularly as the OP is taking his query elsewhere. Further discussion should probably be at WP:Village pump (policy), or WP:AN. -- Softlavender (talk) 10:34, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(I hope it's OK to reopen this, because I think it has been closed by mistake. If not, please let me know whether I should open a new section here, or elsewhere.)

I don't think this is a policy discussion. If people wish to change the policy, they are free to take it to the village pump.

I, the OP, don't. I agree with the current policy, which states that editing Wikipedia does not require registration, and that IPs should not be blocked for long periods of time. In light of that, I think that in this particular incident the block was excessive, and I am requesting this to be undone. I am also trying to find a long-term solution to (or alleviation of) what appears to be a chronic problem related to the IPs of BoA.

The bold part of Softlavender's post is an already-known and ackowledged solution to a problem that I stated from the start is only a marginal aspect of the issue I am raising. 80.189.23.110 (talk) 20:06, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

However, editing in the same topic area as both an IP and a registered editor is no different from using two accounts to edit the same topic area: it violates WP:ILLEGIT in both spirit and letter. Your statement "I only use a registered account when I need to upload images or other restricted access" implies quite strongly that you fail to avoid editing the same topic area in two different manners. If you have an account, use it. Or stop whining. Your choice.—Kww(talk) 20:37, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment would be relevant if I were complaining about not being able to edit from work. Which, once again, I am not. 80.189.23.110 (talk) 21:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sundayclose

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I explained to him that Wikipedia requires civility, and he cussed at me. I think a good Wiki editor has respect for others, which this person definitely doesn't. U2fan01 (talk) 22:26, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't provided any evidence. Please do so. Callmemirela🍁{Talk} 22:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In regard to a Twinkle mishap: Twinkle? Utter bullshit. You made a frivolous speedy nom. And drop the paranoia. I can put any page I want on my watchlist, and if you happen to make one of your disruptive edits, I warn you. It's as simple as that. Stop making such edits and you'll never hear from me again. Now, I have no obligation to explain anything to you, especially my legitimate warning for your disruptive edits, so don't message me again about "targeting" you or "almost every one" of your talk page comments being from me. Sundayclose (talk) 02:25, 7 February 2016 (UTC) U2fan01 (talk) 22:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly what I meant. Please see the diff help page. Callmemirela🍁{Talk} 22:37, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask anyone looking at this report to review U2fan01's edit history and the reasons for the warnings I have given him/her, including removing content without explanation [141], botching an infobox and failing to fix it or revert the edit [142], falsely accusing me of "targeting" him/her [143], and removing others' talk page comments [144] (the latter of which he/she responded with "Wikipedia is a WEBSITE, nothing to cry over"). There also are warnings by other editors for multiple disruptive edits on his/her talk page. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 22:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I also particularly don't like this speedy nomination when it didn't warrant one. I believeWP:BOOMERANG applies here. However, I do have to notify you, Sundayclose, that all users can remove messages from their user talk pages that involves discussion (excluding the user talk page policies). Callmemirela🍁{Talk} 00:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
U2fan01 removed my messages from my talk page. That is a policy violation. Sundayclose (talk) 01:30, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oops. Sorry, I didn't read the diff properly. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 01:34, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like a situation that would be resolved if U2fan01 and Sundayclose would stay off each other's talk pages, remove them from your Watchlist and stop checking each other's contribution. Wikipedia is an enormous project and you don't need to have contact with each other. If you can't drop this feud--that seems to just be a case of dislike and disrespect, not conflicts over content--, this will likely end up with a block for either or both editors. Just go to your corners and ignore each other and focus on editing. Is that possible? Liz Read! Talk! 00:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So one editor speedies the letter F, another warns him, and the issue is that they have a feud? 71.11.1.204 (talk) 00:59, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That speedy was a clear mistake. If you look at the past few exchanges on their two talk pages, it looks like a feud, that it's not about a single incident. LizRead! Talk! 01:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll make a couple of more comments and then leave this situation alone unless new information is brought up. Like Callmemirela, I have my doubts that the speedy nom was a mistake considering the pattern of disruptive edits, but I won't continue to push that issue. I'll also point out that the so-called "incivility" on my part was on my own talk page in response to U2fan01's false accusation that I was targeting him/her. As for my staying off U2fan01's talk page, a problem is that almost every article related to The Beatles has been in my watchlist since before U2fan01 registered, and it is on some of those articles that U2fan01 has made disruptive edits. I suppose that's the reason U2fan01 leaped to the conclusion that I am "targeting" him/her. But to help settle this, I am willing to make an agreement with U2fan01. For the next six months, if U2fan01 will discuss any changes on Beatles-related articles (including Beatles' members articles) on the article's talk page before making the edit, I will not revert any of his edits during those six months. That doesn't mean I won't ask U2fan01 to fix his problem edits and/or notify other editors about any of his problem edits. That agreement would help U2fan01 avoid making "accidental" disruptive edits on many pages I watch, and it would help us stay off of each others' talk pages. But the agreement goes both ways; U2fan01 must agree before I consider it binding, and if he/she violates the agreement it is immediately nullified. Sundayclose (talk) 01:25, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How does this sound, U2fan01? Liz Read! Talk! 01:46, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good, you guys. I apologize for my disruptive edits. U2fan01 (talk) 02:37, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks U2fan01. Six months from today is 10 August 2016 wikitime. Sundayclose (talk) 02:57, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Legacypac's persistent bullying

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved from ANJJMC89 (T·C) 06:23, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Again – after his cursing and threatening me in November 2014 – Legacypac (LP) wants to bully and threaten me. In a November2014 ANI discussion, colleague Serialjoepsycho concluded (24Nov2014,20:42 and 27Nov,01:38) that LP should not have threatened me the way he did and no one stuck up there for LP’s threatening and cursing; yet LP this month threatened/tyrannized me again.

If he can’t stop bullying me, there’s a good chance he does that to a lot more editors. In that mentioned 2014 ANI discussion, editors DocumentError and Skookum1 indeed seem to have attested of similar problems they experienced with LP. I’m not in the position to verify and judge all their complaints about LP, but for me, LP now surely starts to have appearances against him. Perhaps, therefore, it is time now for a real tough warning for Legacypac to stop his bullying and bossing of others?

The occasion this time was a posting from me on Talk:Syrian Civil War,5Jan2016,10:13 where I criticized LP and two others for posting comments in a discussion section that seemed to be not addressing the issue there under debate. LP quickly accused me (5Jan,14:34) of having made a “personal attack” there by being not civil, impolite and/or disrespectful. I asked him (6Jan,14:02) how he meant that.

LP then replied/repeated/explained/threatened/accused/bullied (6Jan,14:36):
- “your rude comments…”
- “[do] not comment on other editors”
- “you have been warned”
and (14:50):
- “[you] insult and belittle…an experienced editor”
- “your behaviour is disruptive”
- “stay off this talk page…”
- “…(for a while) and I’ll not pursue this”
and (14:56):
- “quite inappropriate to do that”
- “… Your comments and behaviour are quite offensive…”
- “… and could easily result in sanctions like a topic ban or block”
- “If you stay off Talk Syrian War for a while I'll save myself the effort of reporting you”
- “…but if you continue acting inappropriately…”
- “… all this will become evidence”
- “ [you are] warned again”.

Apparently, according to LP’s explanation, the whole blow up is about LP reproving me for criticizing specific edits of specific editors including himself which he considers “commenting on other editors” which he fiercely denounces as not “civil”, “rude”, “impolite/disrespectful” and “personal attack” and – (partly) perhaps bearing on my later edit TalkSCW6Jan,14:23 but in that case in my opinion equally unjustified: there, too, a simple disagreement on content is no ground for such incriminating and bullying – reproving me for being “insulting”, “belittling”, “disruptive”, “inappropriate” and “offensive”; reason(s) for LP to try to extirpate all that with threats/injunctions like “you are warned” (2x), “...pursue this” , “reporting you” , “all this…evidence”, “sanctions like…”, and “stay off this talk page” (2x).
Since when is criticism on actions/edits of Wiki colleagues off-limits? Why does LP call criticism/comment on an edit “comment on an editor”? (‘Edit’ is not ‘editor’.) If my criticism would have been unjust LP could simply have said so or have reproven the criticism – but even a refuted or refutable criticism isn’t automatically a disrespectful or impolite criticism nor automatically an unacceptable personal attack – but Legacypac never even tried to rebut that criticism, he straight resorted to his threatening and cowing habit.

Meanwhile, editor Knowledgekid87 seems to have been enticed to join in that LP’s game of groundlessly accusing me (6Jan,14:31-32): of wittingly “reviving” a debate that “has died” and of being uncivil – ofcourse also without specifying my incivility – just to have me (and you) wondering and intimidated – safe behind Legacypac’s back and at the same time covering LP’s back: another reason perhaps why it is high time now to call an end to that (presumably contagious) harassing/intimidating/bullying mentality of Legacypac’s? --Corriebertus (talk) 14:49, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to provide diffs of the problematic behavior I warned , Corriebertus about but he kindly provided them himself. So here Corriebertus is Talk:Syrian Civil War,5Jan2016,10:13 telling other editors to stay out of a discussion and here he removes a close [145] by User:Knowledgekid87 to continue discussing changing the name of the Syrian Civil War to "The Early 21st Century War in Syria". Taking the Civil out pf the name has been discussed to death and clearly is not going to happen. Last formal request [146] plus the archives are littered with informal move requests. Admins should also look at [147], and soliciting an editor into this discussion I have no interest in interacting with [148] [149]

As for the 2014 activity, that has been mischaracterized and the user needs to get over it. The named editors who were complaining were later blocked for the activity I noted. The allegation that I cursed is not true. Legacypac (talk) 15:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Legacypac, I fail to see any incivility by Corriebertus. I'm becoming annoyed with your sensitive skin. I'm not addressing the move requests here – that's not the issue that was brought to us. The issue is your conduct, and it has been brought to ANI over and over again. Corriebertus is being completely civil and your outrage over his tone is uncalled for. People are allowed to discuss issues, and disagreeing with you is not a license to get all bowed up and ruffled. He is allowed on any talk page unless he has been topic banned, and he is allowed to ask questions of editors whom you don't like. What is your problem, and why shouldn't we consider your behavior to be chronic disruption? Katietalk 16:07, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just read this discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Syrian_Civil_War#Is_the_title_correct.2C_.22Civil_War.22.3F and WP:CANVASSING an editor who was banned specifically for his interactions with me is not cool. Legacypac (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I already read that discussion. Now answer my question. Katietalk 18:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Editor did not like the answers given after they continue to push a rename that is never going to happen, told other editor to get out of the discussion and accussed them of not discussing, and reverted a discussion close 2x. I warned the editor and moved on. Several weeks later they start this thread. That's it. Legacypac (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand the frustration with the constant move discussions; but, I think Katie's points are well taken. — Ched : ? 17:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I, too, have been on the receiving end of Legacypac's bullying, thin-skin hyperbolic reactivity, personal attacks, and groundless accusations recently and in the past. Why he hasn't been dealt with more severely by now for his behavior is beyond my understanding. KrakatoaKatie's assessment of "chronic disruption" is wholly on the mark, in my opinion. -- WV 18:55, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Several days ago WV removed my talk comments and when I restored them used that dif to accuse me of breaking 3RR. I can dig up difs but it was in an unrelated 3RR report I filed. Legacypac (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If the comments were on WV's talk page, theyhave every right to remove them at will, and you were in the wrong to restore them. This is standard practice, and it's probably enshrined in a guideline somewhere as well. If your comments were on an article's talk page, then WV should not have removed them unless they satisfied one of the criteria outlined in WP:TPO. BMK (talk) 05:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • While it is on my watchlist, I have been uninvolved with the Syrian Civil War article nor have I met or had any contact with Corriebertus before. I agreed with Legacypac that this edit was not civil: [150], what does it even mean "Seriously discussing"? Corriebertus points out my edit here [151] but never explained what he got out of all the past discussions that were held already on the matter. Given the past consensus I suggested to wait a month or two [152] which in my mind seemed reasonable. What I am seeing now is more of a WP:POINTy attitude that the discussion MUST be held now despite ones that had already taken place. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:48, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know what this is about, don't care, and am uninvolved in all of this. That said, while I don't spend much time at ANI, every time I do come here - without fail - Legacypac is filing a complaint about someone or someone is filing a complaint about Legacypac. A quick search [153] seems to indicate I'm not imagining this. That's all. LavaBaron (talk) 00:25, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WV conduct

@BMK to answer your question WV removed my comments on an AfD [154] which I restored [155]. He then calls for a boomarang at a related 3RR.[156] (sorry not sure how to link to diffs in a closed 3RR) and when I ask "why the heck are you deleting my comments?" he "votes" again with "Another Support for boomerang following this[157] revert taking Legacypac over the 3RR mark. -- WV"

I'm a little frustrated that WV has

  • Deleted my comment at AfD, and when this is questioned...,
  • Called restoring my own comment on an AfD breaching 3RR,
  • Wording his comments in such a way to look like there are two editors calling for a boomarang - leading his second comment with "Another Support"
  • then coming here saying I'm using "personal attacks, and groundless accusations"? He sure likes to call for Boomerangs... Legacypac (talk) 17:27, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Administrators and editors please take note that Legacypac opened this subsection as a complaint regarding my conduct 3 1/2 hours ago [158], but I was never notified by him that he had done so. When Chesnaught555 kindly informed me of this on my talk page just a short while ago [159], Legacypac immediately responded to Chesnaught's comments here with a very lame excuse: "I responded to allegations he made in the thread, so notification is fine but I don't believe it is required." While I do believe Legacypac is trying to distract by starting an entire sub-section about me, I don't believe his reason for the non-notification. If he were merely "responding to allegations", he would have just responded, not started a sub-thread calling for a boomerang and looking for someone he views as an enemy be blocked. This, clearly, is retaliation for my comments above. It's obvious bullying. Further, he's been here long enough to know that something like this requires a notification. The strange creation of sub-thread, the attempt to distract, the suggestion of a boomerang being appropriate when it's not, the retaliation, and the non-notification only further prove Legacypac's disruptive behavior and battleground mentality, making the initial report by Corriebertus to be a legitimate and necessary filing. -- WV 20:20, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The editor doth protest too much, methinks. This is an active discussion already involving you, the section name contains the abbreviation of your username that you show in your signature, I suspect you have this page watchlisted. The odds you would have been discussed here without your knowledge are slim to none. Failing to notify you might have been a minor faux pas but it didn't warrant the above arm-waving. And, WV, your use of "battleground mentality" to refer to another editor is pot-kettle in spades. ―Mandruss 20:47, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I have been too busy today researching sources for an article and working on it to take time to notice or care what Legacypac has been doing here or anywhere. Moreover, if I knew about his mention of me here (as you are trying to claim), why would I ignore it? In spite of your ridiculous allegations, Mandruss, this filing is not about me, regardless of how you are trying to spin it and as much as Legacypac wishes his behavior and editing style were not under scrutiny right now. Congratulations on doing nothing to improve the encyclopedia but doing everything to further the distraction created by Legacypac. -- WV 20:53, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A wall of text with no answer to my diff substantiated allegations or diffs to support WV's serious allegations against me. I was recently blocked for failing to convince admins to sanction (what I later realized was) an Admin and Lugnuts about editor misconduct. Can we expect the same for WV here? Legacypac (talk) 02:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Continued discussion

I'm not here to pile on to a witch-hunt (no, really), but I think there's possibly some WP:CIR issues with Legacypac. I'd like to believe he's editing in good faith, esp. as he's been here since 2007, but some of his recent activity is akin to someone who doesn't really understand the basics. Aside from the misguided enforcement request against me, there have been some bizarre deletion rationales at AfD of late. For example, one and two. I hope that future AfD rationales can be built on policy, as other users might see it as being disruptive. Unless anyone else has anything of substance to add, I recommend this is closed as I don't think it's going anywhere. Obviously bring back concerns to ANI if issues are continuing AND there's clear evidence of no improvement. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 08:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We did have an issue recently in which Legacypac AFD-ed a discretionary sanctions article, the AfD failed, and he went ahead and did a "guerilla deletion" (blank and redirect) of the article five hours after his AfD failed [160], then undid other editors attempts to repair it. Some of us asked him on his Talk page to self-revert and he basically told us to drop dead. An admin finally had to intervene to undo the blanking [161]. It caused more than a minor inconvenience as we were trying to settle the article for the DYK queue at the time. LavaBaron (talk) 09:12, 18 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't use your content dispute to try to paint me as bad. The close was keep, but with explicit direction "The result was keep. Merger can be proposed on the talk page. (non-admin closure) Yash! 02:32, 2 November 2015 (UTC)" which I had already done on Oct 28 (7 days before).[162] and only LavaBaron opposed. Given the other comments on the AfD including a Delete, and a "Keep and Merge" I decided to be bold. There is an open merge proposal on the proposed target [163] which shows I continued to seek consensus. Legacypac (talk) 02:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(1) Do not characterize this as a "content dispute" unless you have some diffs. I had no involvement in the page, or the topic range at all, other than some minor copyediting to conduct a QPQ for DYK. This is not a topic area, nor article, on which I edit. (2) Do not start firing smoke round diffs to make this look like something more complicated than it was. You AfD'ed an article, your AfD failed [164], you did a "guerilla deletion" (blank and redirect) less than five hours after your AfD failed [165]. Polite attempts to reach-out to you by multiple editors were rebuffed in aggressive fashion and an admin ultimately had to intervene to undo your damage [[166]. That this was an article under discretionary sanctions should have landed you a 30-day block right then, but everyone involved in this (myself included) were coming from DYK Review and had no interest in the topic area to pursue it. LavaBaron (talk) 03:08, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Legacypac has a clear track record of disruptive and deceptive behavior to force their own preferences over established policy and practice. Less than two months ago, they ended up here because they were NAC-ing articles as delete, sometimes not even acknowledging NAC closes, then applying speedy tags to try and trick admins into thinking that these were just deletions that had fallen through the cracks. Their anti-Neelix jihad has been a long-term disruption. It's astonishing what some editors are allowed to get away with. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by admins since 2006. (talk) 01:05, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To this I can only say hogwash to this "disruptive and deceptive " characterization. This issue was extensively discussed at ANi, DRV, and various talk pages with zero action taken against me. There is clear policy arguments for and against my one NAC delete close which BTW survived a DRV. I've not done a NAC close since - too much grief. Legacypac (talk) 02:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I previously mentioned, I don't spend much time at ANI but every time I do come here - without fail - Legacypac is filing a complaint about someone or someone is filing a complaint about Legacypac. A quick search of the archives of this noticeboard seems to indicate I'm not imagining this, that the last couple of years has been a parade of warning after warning he's been given. This is not the track record one would expect of a normal, content-focused WP editor. He seems to know how to push just far enough with his edits and how to be just nasty enough with other editors to only get yellow cards. My limited interaction with him just in this thread has left less than a good taste in my mouth - instead of offering explanation or reasonable rebuttal for questions about his edits his first inclination is to unsheathe the knives and start swinging. He seems to treat WP as a giant barroom brawl. LavaBaron (talk) 03:14, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"He seems to treat WP as a giant barroom brawl." Yeah. That's clear. This should be the place to deal with that, but it often seems to not work out that way. Go figure. Begoon talk 14:34, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for Resolution

The original ANI notice seems to be vague. A number of editors such as Begoon, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, Lugnuts, Corriebertus, Knowledgekid87, Winkelvi have provided thoughts, but this has rapidly descended into a complaint fest and parade of horribles with no suggestion for resolution, which is unfair to Legacypac and other editors themselves.
As a concrete proposal, therefore, I recommend - based on the issues raised by aformentioned editors in the preceding discussion - a one-year WP:CBAN applied on Legacypac by community consensus on all topic pages covered by the WP:GS/SCW&ISIL case. LavaBaron (talk) 00:39, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support as per reasons described in "continued discussion" (above) by me, specifically the "stealth deletion" of a discretionary sanctions article by Legacypac. LavaBaron (talk) 00:39, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per LavaBaron. I have to wonder, however, what will change in the future with the behaviors noted by myself and other editors above. If this CBAN proposal becomes a reality, it will be interesting to see if LPs behavior changes for the better outside the specifics of the CBAN. If not, we will likely be back here again (and again) with LP as the subject of more filings. One thing at a time, I guess. -- WV 02:32, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What a dumb idea. I've edited quite responsibly in the SCW&ISIL area for several years. I have started and built out a number of good articles there, have no record of edit warring sanctions there, and regularly patrol changes and revert vandalism in this area. Large parts of both the text and organization of the pillar ISIL article still stand as written and organized by me last year. Some people don't like my cleanup efforts but targeting my participation in ISIL topics is wrong headed.

I'm also surprised to see WV still posting in this thread after he failed to answer for his own behavior just above, claiming he was too busy. Someone should look at his falsifications and act on them. Legacypac (talk) 02:58, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Within the context of the behavioral issues that have been raised, starting a response to another editor with "what a dumb idea" may underscore that this is not such a dumb idea after all. Just a thought. LavaBaron (talk) 07:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the laugh. [167] kettles, pots and all. Legacypac (talk) 08:07, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The formal proposal is in revisions history. Feel free to use it. But it won't have my support until any of the sides properly establish their viewpoints. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 08:12, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciate you providing a better worded proposal QEDK. I agree it's preferable to the current version, as it's more precise and fairer to Legacypac as it leaves less ambiguity, but I'd rather defer to another editor to introduce it as I'd rather not become more involved in this than I am already. LavaBaron (talk) 08:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can introduce a proposal, however only uninvolved editors can close it. That's how it works. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 08:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed it is. LavaBaron (talk) 08:24, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Legacypac, I've noticed that you've nominated a bunch of redirects by Neelix for speedy deletion, branding them as nonsense. Why? They seem perfectly fine to me. Neelix is an experienced editor who clearly knows why such redirects are required. I therefore support the CBAN proposed by LavaBaron as I think you need to learn that your behaviour is unacceptable. Chesnaught(talk) 15:44, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You do know that Neelix disappeared up his own orifice in a blaze of self-failure, right? LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 18:13, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If Ches doesn't know it, he must be living under a Wiki-rock. Even so, it does seem at this point, from the edit summaries as well as the fervor behind the deletion nominations by this one editor, that there is an unhealthy flavor of vendetta afoot. Just my observation. -- WV 18:28, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
'A bunch' of Neelix redirects is a very unfair characterization. I processed (CSD, RfD, AfD, or cleared as ok) over 2,200 Neelix redirects just this weekend on list 5 so far [168]. [169] plus some on lists 1-4 too. You must have missed the community decision that any Neelix redirect can be deleted G6 housekeeping if an Admin thinks it would not survive RfD.
Also Someone should look into WV's false allegations above since he keeps spouting nonsense about me here please. Legacypac (talk) 19:20, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Despite Legacypac's incessant breast-beating and pronouncements of their editing's importance, their efforts are proving indiscriminate, disruptive and spiteful. Just a few minutes ago, Legacypac reinstated a pair of speedies I declined without substantive explanation, without bothering to check out the reason I gave, with a snarky (at best) edit summary. It's one thing to whack Neelix's hundreds of synonyms for female mammaries; it's quite another to aggressively try to delete redirects like "possession of a firearm", when the simplest Gsearch would shows several million uses, included frequent references in US statutes and court cases. Their jihad is more disruptive than the problem; the reason that nobody noticed Neelix's crap for years was that it was mostly harmless. That can't be said about Legacypac's behaviour. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by admins since 2006. (talk) 21:33, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I saw the reinstatements and thought of coming here to mention them, but am glad someone else took the initiative. At this point, yes, the Neelix-related deletion requests by LP do seem spiteful and disruptive. As I noted above. Is his war on Neelix really doing any good at this point? I submit, "No". -- WV 21:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hullaballoo Wolfowitz just a gentle reminder, this isn't the place to "pile on" against Legacypac. Please clearly state whether you Support or Oppose the Community Ban proposal, preferably with a bullet point and bold, in the main threadline, for ease of bookkeeping. LavaBaron (talk) 23:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for late reply. Lugnuts, of course I am aware of Neelix's departure, but as Winkelvi was saying, LP does seem to be on a vendetta against him for some reason. Chesnaught (talk) 07:34, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is no vendetta - there is still a BIG cleanup job to do. Neelix created thousands of fake words and other misleading redirects. It remains easy to pick off dozens of these in minutes. Editors that are spending their time bitching here instead of cleaning up or doing something productive should be ashamed of themselves for they truly are the proverbial peanut gallery. Legacypac (talk) 11:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That sort of language won't help you out at all here. Furthermore, these redirects that you are nominating for SD aren't always the malicious ones which Neelix created; some of them were actually fine. Chesnaught(talk) 16:24, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The VAST majority of my noms are deleted. Sometimes others see stuff that can be retargeted or think something should be saved. That is why we have Redirects for Discussion. I don't see a result of not delete as a failure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Legacypac (talkcontribs) 18:07, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding Legacypac's apparent "vendetta" against Neelix redirects, there are some 80,000 nonsense creations by that one editor which the community agreed needed to be dealt with in this piecemeal fashion (rather than mass-deleting all of them, and rather than keeping all of them as good-faith contributions). To support this, the community also passed a special criterion for WP:G6 to allow admins to speedy-delete them. Both of these discussions were large threads with broad community support, not just one or two editors deciding to go rogue. This was happening entirely in the background until about a week ago when a handful of editors began executing their own vendetta against Legacypac, following him around removing his CSD notices, and that's the entirety of the reason that these masses of obvious-delete redirects are getting dumped at RfD again (and then speedy deleted anyway). So if you want to end the disruption entirely, stop removing the notices. I have no comment on the proposal. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This edit, with the summary "the peanut gallery can choke on their nuts" is probably enough to convince any rational editor that a CBAN is necessary for Legacypac. The pattern of abusive personal attacks and provocations has gone one far too long. An editor that has no qualms dragging any and every editor who differs wih him to ANI or Arbitration Enforcement on a daily basis should realize that he has been hit by a long overdue WP:BOOMERANG. Alansohn (talk) 18:47, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Alansohn. Despite the issues being brought to the attention of the user, they continue with the same behaviour that brought their habits to the attention of ANI. And Legacypac should count himself lucky it's not a block/lenghty ban/indef. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 19:13, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Editors calls other editors SCUM and FUCK on the top of their talk User_talk:Lugnuts should not be talking about bans over civility. Anyway I was already blocked for complaining about Lugnuts rudeness, so punishing me again because he is still annoyed at me taking him to AE is quite wrong. Legacypac (talk) 18:07, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not calling any editors scum, if you take your head out of your arse, you'll see it links to a highly funny TV show. Yes it fucking does. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 19:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It stroke me what Ivanvector wrote which I trustfully accept as a fact. It thus looks to me that Legacypac's only fault (apart from his less-than-civil commenting style) was that he was cutting procedural corners in his efforts to undo all of Neelix's vandalism/contentious edits, by XfD'ing and re-XfD'ing Neelix's redirects (as anyway approved by a large consensus). Uninitiated editors could well not have the knowledge of the context and tried to stop/revert him, leading him to that less-than-civil behaviour. Still, I believe Legacypac's initiative deserves at least a degree of recognition. As for the civility issue, I believe a punitive ban block of a day or two should suffice, as it is often done with editors too quick to revert or who show outbursts of aggression. In short, there is a problem with Legacypac's civility, as this thread's title shows anyway, but topic bans are NOT a right remedy to civility issues. — kashmiri TALK 16:32, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Kashmiri - my impetus for the proposal had nothing to do with his civility, though that is definitely a concern based on his rap sheet at ANI. My proposal was based on my non-Neelix experience in which he AfD'ed a page under discretionary sanctions and, five hours after the AfD failed, "guerilla deleted" (blank/redirect) it. After being asked by multiple editors to undo the guerilla deletion he simply dug in his heels. An admin finally had to be sourced to undo it as everyone else - everyone except, apparently, Legacypac - was treading carefully to avoid violating the discretionary sanctions. Based on the whole of the non-Neelix issues, it appears he has a shoot first / ask questions later approach to editing sensitive articles and an unwillingness to collaborate with others on this topic. (And I say this as someone who is not active at all on the topic, but came across it quite by accident, as I've detailed in my original case in the preceding section). LavaBaron (talk) 20:20, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@LavaBaron: Sure, but this post is about persistent bullying by Legacypac, as this precisely is the problem stated by the OP. You have rightly noticed that the thread has descended into a complaint fest and a few editors started digging out their content disputes with LP. BUT we are still - or should be - discussing the original problem which is LP's "bullying". Topic bans are preventive, their aim is to prevent damage to a certain subset of Wikipedia articles. But nobody here suggests that LP damages any topic. So, when talking about behaviour, we can only look at punitive sanctions, like formal reprimands, short-term blocks, etc.
You mentioned an instance of blank-and-redirect. I am not involved in the ISIL topic but where I edit (India & Pakistan) we also have discretionary sanctions. Still, articles are frequently blanked and redirected with little fanfare or consequences. This is not to say these topics are comparable, but I'd like to put an single act of blank-and-redirect in correct perspective. Regards, — kashmiriTALK 08:25, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a single act, first of all. Second of all, it was not simply a "blank and redirect" - he AfD'ed it and there was a wide consensus it should be kept as is. Less than five hours later he decided his opinion was more important than the community and did a blank/redirect - overriding a just-established consensus on this discretionary sanctions article. Multiple editors requested he voluntarily undo it and he basically told them to GFY. With a great expenditure of time that could have been spent editing, editors then had to source an admin to clean up the mess Legacypac left. This also caused problems with DYK bookkeeping as the article was in the queue at the time. Through his history of edits, Legacypac seems to believe there's one way to do things: his way. And if you're not on board, you better get out of the way, as Begoon noted. LavaBaron (talk) 17:12, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Absurd to apply "a one-year WP:CBAN applied on Legacypac by community consensus on all topic pages covered by the WP:GS/SCW&ISIL case" for continuing to clean up Neelix redirects that are - so far as I know - quite unrelated to the WP:GS/SCW&ISIL case. NebY (talk) 19:25, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I don't always agree with Legacypac, but IMO he's right here. So are kashmiri and Neb above. A topic ban wouldn't make sense. ansh666 19:53, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a proposal for a topic ban, but rather a community ban. Ches(talk) 11:53, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's a proposal for a WP:CBAN topic ban from pages covered by WP:GS/SCW&ISIL, as I quoted above - you may find it helpful to review WP:CBAN. This raises the question of what it is that you are supporting. Is it a topic ban from WP:GS/SCW&ISIL pages, or a complete ban from Wikipedia for continuing to clean up Neelix's redirects? NebY (talk) 13:44, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The former, sir, although given LP's recent bullying of other users, I would be in support of the latter should it ever be proposed. Ches (talk) 14:01, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Lugnuts. 97.95.68.240 (talk) 21:52, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose LP is on the right side of the Neelix redirect issue. He is explicitly carrying out the stated view of the community. I've had occasion to see Legacypac in action over the last several months because of our mutual interest in pruning the WALLEDGARDEN of "World's Oldest People" articles. LP is often brusque and snarky but generally right. His contributions are a boon to the project. It is not a violation of civility to call dumb ideas dumb, nor is it unconstructive to ridicule the ridiculous. David in DC (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha. So if you act like an uncivil ****, but hunker down with a thankless task in the meantime, you get a free pass. Glad that's clear. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 19:43, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't strike me as a reasonable recapitulation of my comments. Nor of LP's behavior. Which is unsurprising, but still sad. David in DC (talk)
Well Dave, I can't account for your reading skills. No doubt we'll see Legacypac back here sooner rather than later. LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 08:42, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Any opinion on the non-Neelix related issues that were mentioned? Specifically his "guerilla deletion" (blank / revert) of a discretionary sanctions page after it failed his AFD and his refusal to undo it, ultimately requiring admin intervention? LavaBaron (talk) 20:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, but this thread is supposed to be about "persistent bullying." What you're describing as a "guerilla deletion" may or may not have been improper, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what it's doing in this thread at all. David in DC (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The thread is about whatever we make it about. A thread title is not a suicide pact. LavaBaron (talk) 04:01, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
LP dared to blank a page under sanctions and you are proposing a one year TBAN? Is that correct? — kashmiri TALK 10:40, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looking for any justification to invalidate perfectly independent viewpoints. I do believe this has gone well beyond CIR levels to the point of questioning if a suicide by admin defense is being put forth. And now for the obligatory attack to invalidate myself as per the modus operandi. Hasteur (talk) 19:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: There seems to be a pattern of behaviour here, which I cannot personally speak to, which is informing many of the positions with regard to Legacypac, and it may very well be that there is some long overdue community action that needs to be taken. Certainly there seems to be a bit of battleground mentality involved here. However, reviewing the diffs supplied above and looking over the talk page discussions, it doesn't seem as if the digression into polemics is altogether one-sided--including particularly the failures to assume good faith and attempts to discredit the opinions of others via an implication of disruption. Both LP and corriebertus seem inclined to engage in this kind of behaviour, with each apparently oblivious to the irony of their charges: [170], [171]. Even recognizing that editors who routinely fail to operate in a collaborative fashion should be called to account, and further acknowledging that the editors commenting here seem to have valid points about a pattern in Legacypac's collaborative approach, I'm still concerned that it may not be appropriate to invoke a sanction in this case, where the behaviour of the filing party is arguably as, or more, combative and disruptive as LP's. Snow let's rap 04:44, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If the above arguments are not enough, LP also casts totally unbased aspersions on editors who don't support his arguments at AfD and elsewhere. This action is long overdue. Jacona (talk) 21:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There's a lot of cleanup to do with the list(s) of Neelix redirects. Legacypac has done good work on getting that process started. But the behavior problems listed here, including incivility and outright personal attacks, disruption at RFD and in CSD tagging, and general unpleasantness? Nope. There are enough editors working the Neelix list. Right now Legacypac's involvement is doing more harm than good. Walk away. Edit something else. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:08, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Going through Legacypac's extensive rap sheet at ANI, it appears he's already been subject of a one-year ban, which makes me wonder if one-year is even too little given this is a chronic issue.EDIT - nevermind, just noticed that was a TBAN on BLPs, not the different topic this one proposes. LavaBaron (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I have a ‘better’, or at least a competing, proposal: see below. --Corriebertus (talk) 19:18, 3 February 2016 (UTC) For now I withdraw my ‘oppose’ vote. I’m reconsidering the situation, the options, the arguments given, etc. --Corriebertus (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - it's apparent there is a group of editors out to find a way to punish Legacypac. Again, there have been numerous discussions approving Legacypac's course of action regarding deletion of the Neelix redirects, yet this group continues to bring up that entirely unrelated behaviour as a reason to sanction him in whatever topic area this thread is about. While Legacypac's behaviour may have been tendentious within that topic, it's this group's behaviour which is disruptive to the project as a whole. I endorse no sanctions, and suggest this be closed with no action for the good of the project. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:02, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the rhetorical strategy of the minority of Legacypac supporters in framing this as a Neelix issue but once again, for the record, I'm the proposer and I've never even mentioned Neelix as a reason for a ban. I've also only co-edited two articles with Legacypac and my gross quantity of edits on those articles was a whopping six (6) edits [172] so I'm not sure which "group" that makes me part of? Does that still make me a part of this vast conspiracy you've alleged - like kind-of a second gunman type-of-thing? LavaBaron (talk) 19:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, hey, the LP opposers were the ones who brought up Neelix in the first place. ansh666 22:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I have never mentioned Neelix except to say I haven't mentioned him. I assure you I am not part of some type of shadowy cabal of "LP opposers" [sic] and, as noted, only six of my mainspace edits - out of 8,000 total WP edits [173] - have even been on articles also edited by Legacypac. Finally, the OP's original title was "Persistent Legacypac Bullying." If all that isn't enough to dissuade you from the idea this is nothing more than a Neelix issue, I dunno what to tell you. LavaBaron (talk) 00:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then, in the same vein, I assure you I am not part of some type of shadowy cabal of "LP supporters". I wasn't saying that you were the one who brought up Neelix (it was Hullaballoo Wolfowitz). I am aware that this isn't a Neelix issue; I didn't mention or consider it in my reason to oppose the topic ban (apart from citing others who did). In addition, at least one person who supported the topic ban used the Neelix issue (for which there is a community mandate, btw) as the reason. ansh666 03:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Shadowy cabal?" Oh sheesh. LavaBaron (talk) 12:14, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In case you didn't notice, I was directly copying your text. Besides, haven't I mentioned that Legacypac and I don't always get along? ansh666 12:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is a forum for discussion and dialog, not "copying" other editors or yelling "I know you are, but what am I?" Thanks. LavaBaron (talk) 12:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And I am attempting discussion and dialog! But it is obvious that I will not be able to get my point across here. ansh666 13:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fret not, ansh. You can only control what you send, not what others receive. I sense the Force of WP:IDONTHEARYOU is strong in this one. David in DC (talk) 16:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Adding exclamation points is unlikely to help you get your "point across here" and, to get ahead of the donkey cart on this one, all caps is not likely to help either. Best of luck - LavaBaron (talk) 01:23, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Ivanvector and the others above. Many of the proponents of this block should focus on their own behavior and not Legacypac's. It's probably about time we close this thread because it's likely not going anywhere and no editor deserves to have the sword of Damocles hanging over his head so long. Calidum T C 15:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since you brought it up here, I'd appreciate it if you could provide more detail on what's wrong with my "behavior". Thanks. As for why this proposal is open still, it's because it's running 2:1 in favor of the CBAN. That's not a consensus to CBAN, but neither is it a consensus to close. LavaBaron (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Legacypac has a history of focussing his efforts on WP:HOUNDING and making personal attacks on any editors that he thinks he disagrees with. These efforts have in the past led somehow to blocks and retirements of his "enemies", which he interprets unsurprisingly as evidence of the widespread community support for his actions. For whatever reason, it seems that this support is now wearing thin. The SCW/ISIL topic area will manage fine without him, no doubt. zzz (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
See [174] and [175]Legacypac (talk) 18:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't understand then, and I guess you still don't, that a statement such as "ISIL aims to bring most Muslim areas of the world under its control" needs to be sourced. Your argument to keep the statement was twofold: that because it was in the lead section it can be "agreed by consensus" instead (WP:original research); and that it's your summary of various sources (WP:synthesis). By raising this again, you demonstrate that you (still) lack the WP:competence to edit. In view of your inability to grasp the concept of WP:verifiability, in my opinion a topic ban on SCW/ISIL articles would be insufficient. zzz (talk) 01:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Legacypac is a good editor who may ruffles some feathers, but many of those supporting a ban are people who have been banned themselves. There are a whole lot of sharks in the water here. Lipsquid (talk) 08:27, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If "many" = "most" then, no, that is not true. I've just checked and a numerical majority of those supporting the ban have neither been banned nor blocked on the English Wikipedia. LavaBaron (talk) 03:57, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Many" means many, as in several, more that two. Most means most, as in more than 50%, thanks for checking the numbers, but it has nothing to do with what I said. Obviously, still lots of bad actors hanging around. Lipsquid (talk) 16:40, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So 3? Or you don't know? LavaBaron (talk) 06:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Legacypac does good work on the thankless Neelix redirect cleanup, and in fact seems to be nearly alone in doing that for the past several months. He has also learned to be reasonable and calm in his RfD nomination wordings, and has learned to avoid snark and ridicule there. This causes me to believe that he is educable. The problem seems to be that he has not carried this civility and collaborativeness and calm rationality into the other areas of Wikipedia. He has simply got to learn that he needs to remain calm, remain collaborative, remain patient, remain respectful, and remain a gentleman, everywhere on Wikipedia, no matter how people disagree with him or "upset" him. Doing good work in one area of Wikipedia does not give one a free pass to be uncivil, uncollaborative, or bullying elsewhere on Wikipedia. Unfortunately his replies and comments in this thread have not shown calmness or understanding of the problem; they seem to present more personal attacks. Legacypac needs to take the issues brought up on this thread to heart, and show by his actions and his words here that he understands. He should not continue to snark, bully, and indulge in personal attacks when behavioral issues are brought to ANI. Softlavender (talk) 10:28, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose From reading the preceding comments, I more or less agree with Lipsquid here.Homemade Pencils (talk) 04:20, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I congratulate you on choosing ANI to become your 98th lifetime edit on WP. LavaBaron (talk) 06:53, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@LavaBaron: Are you biting a newcomer? Can you please quote a policy which prohibits new editors from taking part in ANI discussions? Also, why do you assume that Homemade Pencils did not edit under IP previously? — kashmiriTALK 23:07, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No. No. I don't. LavaBaron (talk) 00:21, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Without yet having had the time to read all recent postings, I just inform you now, that I'm ascribing an unsigned posting in this section, from 28Jan2016,18:07, to Legacypac (see above) (at the same time I post this comment).--Corriebertus (talk) 11:56, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to do stuff like that, you should use the template meant for that purpose, and not make your comment look like a celebration of finding more dirt on someone. I fixed it for you. Legacypac did sign his edit, but in a different place. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 16:22, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the advice. I'm not responsible though for you or anyone reading or seeing some statement as "celebration". I stumbled on an unclearly or not signed posting, which hindered me in assessing who had said/argued exactly what. --Corriebertus (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Competing proposal: block from Wikipedia for one week

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Out of curiosity to understand what type of editor, or what type of person, Legacypac (LP) is, I looked up his User contributions list, and was dumbstruck: LP pulled it off to achieve 308 edits on 3Feb2016 between 00:00 and 13:14 o’clock. I dare say, with no irony intended: this man must be a genius, an IQ of 140 or more (but, to avoid misunderstandings: being extremely intelligent doesn’t say anything – in my opinion – about ‘being a good person’).
Then, I started to read this discussion I kicked off myself, and was immediately very, very disappointed by already the first reaction of the accused, mr LP. In those only 158 words (16Jan), he manages to tell a lot of (pardon my French) rubbish and seems to be ‘playing the fool’ – very convincingly, I must admit:

  • “5Jan,10:13 telling other editors to stay out of a discussion”: No, people. I did not tell anyone to stay out of a discussion, I only asked everyone to leave out of discussions posts that do not address the issue there under debate.
  • “Taking the Civil out pf the name has been discussed to death…”. That may very well be a correct statement of LP. The whole point however is: LP should have clearly, squarely and fairly said so IN THAT SCW DISCUSSION SECTION, immediately. Then nothing of this mess would have come about.
  • “As for the 2014 activity, that has been mischaracterized…”: ??? how, then?
  • ”… and the user needs to get over it.” Thanks; and I really was ‘over it’; until Jan2016, when I got involved in a conflict with some editor, LP, in a way that seemed slightly to resemble an earlier conflict with some editor back in 2014, whose name was … (just checking to see who that was, back in 2014 …) LP!
  • “The named editors who were complaining were later blocked for the activity I noted.” That may or may not be so, but is slightly beside the point here. We don’t have time to check all such contentions of LP, especially because he doesn’t conveniently add links or diffs to them to enable us to quickly check them. He thus seems to gamble on us not having the time and intelligence and patience to check every excuse he brings to the fore.

Now, on 24 January, LavaBaron here (above) proposed “a one-year WP:CBAN applied on Legacypac by community consensus on all topic pages covered by the WP:GS/SCW&ISIL case”. I do agree that some sort of ban or block seems the way to deal with the assumed accumulating and long-standing problems with LP’s behaviour. But is that proposal of LavaBaron’s the best option?
8 Supports for Lava’s proposal are from: Lava (‘stealth deletion…’), WV (…but wonders ‘if LP’s behaviour will change outside the banned topics’—that’s exactly my problem with Lava’s proposal), Alansohn (‘…pattern of personal attacks…long overdue’), Lugnuts (per Alansohn), 9795 (per Lugn), Hasteur (‘LP seems to sollicit for suicide by admin’—well, I agree LP really triggers us to react, but I believe topic ban is not the best option to do so), Jacona (‘aspersions…’), UltraE (‘behavior problems as listed here; LP has done good work but now is doing more harm than good’).
4 Opposes are from: kashmiri (‘topic ban is inadequate reaction on civility issue; punitive block of two days is better suited’), NebY (‘CBAN absurd for Neelix affair’), ansh666 (‘topic ban makes no sense’ because ‘LP is right here’—sorry, I don’t understand in what exactly LP is right ‘here’: perhaps the Neelix stuff?), DavidDC (‘LP is brusque, but on content his contributions are often good’—which I don’t challenge: my criticism was never his article content, was always his unacceptable uncivil behaviour; sort-of what Katie says too (16Jan)).

Competing proposal: It seems to me not very logical, not helping, to ban Legacypac only for certain topics: considering his presumed high intelligence and drivenness he’ll probably continue his uncivil behaviour in other topics. This is feared also by WV, and is even confirmed by Lava’s latest discovery(3Feb,17:16) that LP has already had a one-year ban on another topic!
Presuming LP is addicted to Wikipedia (as I probably am myself, too, I admit), I think it would be more suitable and better ‘curing’ to simply now block him from Wikipedia for just a short time, say one week (kashmiri proposes a block of only two days, I guess that is too short, here. Five days minimum, I’d say). Gives him time to detox, and time to think over his behaviour, and perhaps his ‘sins’, on Wikipedia; time to decide for himself if it would be worth while to try on a different, more civil, more polite,[struck out CB,5Feb.12:01] behaviour. Then, when he comes back into the community after a week, if he falls back into the same old ‘mistakes’ again, just block him again for a week. And the third time, block him for two weeks. Next time longer. Et cetera. --Corriebertus (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Support in Addition to One-Year CBAN ->edit: as per Hasteur<- for reasons stated in preceding two threads LavaBaron (talk) 20:44, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think that LBP's conduct is so far gone that it is unlikely they can reform, but per the minimal restrictions policy, we are obligated give them an opportunity to demonstrate their disposition outside of the topic space. Kicking this down the road one week by a one week block after the extended nature of the existing conduct is not sufficent. Hasteur (talk) 21:05, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I don't really understand this proposal, but throwing around cool-down blocks when you can't really specify what is the problem is certainly not in the best interest of this project, and plainly punitive blocks are verboten. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - LP's behavior does not merit a block. LP does good work, improves the encyclopedia and apparently his blunt style provokes others. In my view, that tells us more about the people who claim his words provoke them. Perhaps this is a case of "Shoefitz syndrome". When LP ridicules the ridiculous, it's possible that the ridiculous recognize themselves and overreact. There's a difference between defamation of character and definition of characters. David in DC (talk) 19:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per David. Best I can say to everyone offended by LP is to grow a thicker skin. ansh666 22:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, @Corriebertus: it's been a while since I made the comment, so I'm not 100% sure, but I believe what I was referring to LP being right about was the content dispute on Talk:Syrian Civil War which started this. I also don't see this as bullying or harassment; it's pretty typical for Wikipedia (not to mention the real world). I'll repeat the advice I mentioned above: grow a thicker skin. ansh666 03:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am a completely uninvolved editor that happens to have been following this thread and I feel that certain claims being made are addressed on the CIVILITY page, specifically: "Avoid appearing to ridicule another editor's comment. Even if you see the comment as ridiculous, he or she very probably doesn't, and expressing ridicule is likely only to offend and antagonise, rather than helping." In this case, it would seem, not having a thick skin, though no doubt disadvantageous, should not preclude one from a positive editing experience. Primergrey (talk) 07:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This sounds clearly punitive rather than preventive. Perhaps if no resolution or consensus is reached here, a simple admonishment would suffice, with the condition that if the behavior continues, sanctions will ensue. Softlavender (talk) 11:59, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Softlavender, I'd suggest you do a search for "Legacypac" in the ANI archives. It appears he's up to something like his 47th final warning ... (exaggerated for emphasis, though just barely) LavaBaron (talk) 12:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you can produce a final warning from an admin that stated that sanctions will ensue if not heeded, then please do. Softlavender (talk) 12:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here [176] he was warned not to persist making questionable WP:NACD (the kind other editors have, in this thread, noted he's continuing to do). Here [177]3bdulelah asks him to please stop calling other Wikipedians edits "terrorist propaganda". Here [178]SlimVirgin nicely asks he be more attentive in his deletions and he comes straight out of the gate swinging. Here [179]WordSeventeen requests he stop redirecting articles that he doesn't like but that have passed notability (the same issue I described in the preceding thread). I could go on, but I'm not the ANI secretary and this could literally extend for pages. His entire history has been one of combative interaction with other editors, of treating WP like a giant barroom brawl in which he needs to preemptively beat-down any editor who shows the slightest whiff of disagreement with his edits. That said, I agree it's undeniable, after looking at his edit history, his contributions in some areas have been good. This is why, like you, I oppose the idea of a block (but support the CBAN). Hitting pause on his editing on a relatively small section of WP for a relatively short period of time might give him a moment of reflection that would allow him to re-start on a collaborative foot, instead of treating other editors like hurdles he has to barrel through. His last TBAN and his most recent block seem to have been useful in behavior modification and triggering an additional one might pivot the dial a little further still. We should intervene to help useful editors like Legacypac modify their behavior before it gets to the point where they're no longer salvageable. It takes a village. LavaBaron (talk) 13:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I can provide one other: this thread which I regrettably opened with a comment bordering on personal attack about Legacypac's CSD tagging. Rather than devolving into a back-and-forth where everyone insists someone should be banned, the exchange led to a constructive discussion about ways to better execute a difficult thing that several editors have been working on, which was informed by Legacypac's constructive input. While I do believe that Legacypac has misinterpreted some guidelines here and there, I've found he's always open to polite criticism and quite willing to adapt if he's doing something against consensus or convention, notwithstanding defending himself if he believes he's being unjustly attacked. Editors like LavaBaron and Corriebertus are painting a picture of an editor with his head buried in the sand who won't listen to anything, refuses to collaborate and insists on bulldozing their way through all opposition. I've encountered editors like that, we all have, but I don't see it in Legacypac. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 13:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I struck out the word ‘polite’ from my posting of 3Feb.19:17. It seems vague there, seems not to make the case or my case clear, could even be incorrect. --Corriebertus (talk) 12:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on reactions hitherto: I ofcourse only ventured a hopefully ‘improved’ proposal because a solid majority of respondents seemed conviced that something should be done towards Legacypac’s behaviour.
Of the eight editors who were in favour of the (punitive) proposal of Lava (‘CBAN on topics SCW and ISIL’, see previous subsection), by now only Hasteur and Lava have responded, both with one rationale.

  • Hasteur said on 1Feb: ‘LP’s behaviour has gone well beyond ’Competence is required’ levels’;
    Wonders “if a suicide by admin defense is being put forth”;
    And supported a CBAN on two topics.
    3Feb, Hasteur says: ‘we are obligated to give them opportunity to show better behaviour outside topic space’: I agree; but in both proposals (mine and Lava’s), LP is given that opportunity.

My proposal does something more: incite LP to think for a whole week about his own Wiki performance while being blocked from making edits.
Also Lava’s proposal does something more: ban or block LP for a whole year from some topics. That seems to me overly severe, not necessary or useful:

  • Too severe: 3Feb, Hasteur says: ‘it is unlikely that LP can reform his behaviour’. I disagree: every intelligent person can reform. If we have not yet even slightly punished someone for a specific ‘misbehaviour’, it is too early to say it is unlikely he can reform. LP has not yet been ‘punished’ on topics SCW/ISIL; therefore a first punishment of one week seems appropriate, bombing him right away with a one-year ban overly severe.
  • Not necessary: if a first week-block ‘cures’ LP, he is free again to work in every topic. If it does not cure him (if he does not reform), we’ll very soon find out and give him a second, or third block, etc. Which can lead to a total block, eventually. Hasteur expects a one week block to be “insufficient”: that is pessimistic, and I don’t think editors/trespassers should unreasonably ‘pay’, suffer, for (unfounded) pessimism of Hasteur (or others).
  • Hasteur seems to suggest that LP is hopeless on two topics but quite a decent contributor on other topics. What is the rationale to suspect that?

Of the four editors who were against the (punitive) proposal of Lava, by now ansh666 and DavidDC opposed also my proposal:

  • Ansh says (and implicitly, DavidDC said the same on 29Jan): the conflict or event that triggered this whole discussion (my post of 16Jan) was ‘no bullying or harassment of LP’. That places them outside the rather solid consensus in this discussion until 3Feb, but of course makes it fully consistent that they oppose all proposed measures against LP.

As for new respondents: I’ll react on them later. --Corriebertus (talk) 15:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please give us a new comment for every new respondent. Others cannot be counted on to bring their critical skills to bear on this deeply complicated issue. Play-by-play from someone who's involved is near-mandatory. David in DC (talk) 16:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Corriebertus started this thread with "Again – after his cursing...". Please provide diffs to substantiate the first allegation before making additional comments here. Legacypac (talk) 17:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

An answer, three questions:
@LP asks for the cursing to be corroborated. This was all talked over etc. in 2014, in this discussion, linking to this edit, 24Nov2014, for the cursing.
Now, Just three questions, for:
@ansh666 and David in DC: As I stated here (16Jan), LP accused me of personal attack, and even after my asking he could not tell me where my PA had taken place (except that he apparently judged criticism on an edit as “personal attack”), nor did he withdraw that accusation. The two of you claim or suggest however, that LP has not harassed/bullied me. Does that mean it is OK to accuse someone of PA when that is not true? Or does it mean I did perform a PA on LP and that you can tell me what and where that was?
@David in DC: Your sentence “Play-by-play…”: I assume you are saying I am doing ‘Play-by-play’. What is that?
@Hasteur: I see you have hidden parts of my postings. What gives you the right to do that? Aren’t we all reacting on, and thus ‘analysing’, postings of other discussants? --Corriebertus (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment forgive me for not reading the whole thing, but I have seen LP's name quite a lot so I do want to comment and I do think something should be done. Those who are opposed to a block or a ban, what about a TBAN on "admin" stuff? LP would be allowed to edit, but would not be allowed to close AFD's, would not be allowed to revert vandalism, etc. This should stop some of the interaction. We could also make this the last stop. If LP makes it to ANI again, then it's a guaranteed block. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for chiming in. (Some of) those who oppose a block or ban, seem to hold the opinion that LP did nothing or nearly nothing wrong. And probably they won't even allow me to write this latest statement down, and (try to) find a way to obscure this latest statement of mine. --Corriebertus (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh...it is perfectly clear to me even as an outside observer why someone would take your statement as an attack. Saying please, have the politeness not to disturb legitimate discussions of others on some Talk page when they've been attempting to convey the general consensus on the very issue you're discussing? I can't see how that's, as you describe yourself, polite in any way. And nor is he or anyone else bullying or harassing you. The discussion was closed by an uninvolved editor in accordance with general consensus, and you undid it - which is disruptive behavior. He was justified in warning you. Legacypac has not been any more impolite than you have. ansh666 23:44, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP user persistently vandalizing page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens has been repeatedly edited by user 213.121.240.195. I warned this person, and the vandalism continued. The IP address seems to be registered to https://companycheck.co.uk/ Can you block? cbdorsett (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like it's been taken care of: [180] RickinBaltimore (talk) 15:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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G.Reza Yahyavi Fakour and OSx16

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User:G.Reza Yahyavi Fakour has been spamming DOS with links and wikilinks to a non-notable operating system he wrote[181] called "OSx16".[182][183][184][185][186][187][188]

When the page was deleted (See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/OSx16) he recreated the deleted page at Talk:OSx16.

Clearly this user is only here to promote his own work. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:33, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Recreated-article-in-talkspace deleted and the user blocked for being here only for promotional purposes. - The Bushranger One ping only 13:21, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Manolvd1999

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Manolvd1999 (talk · contribs) was reported here in September 2015 (see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive899#Unsourced_ideologies_and_controversial_info_for_radical_parties). Nothing was done. They have continued. Now they are repeatedly violating the WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 restriction at Hamas despite having been alerted to the restriction via the edit notice at that page, edit summaries and their talk page. It's apparent that no purpose is served by attempting to communicate with them. Perhaps a block will get their attention. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sean.hoyland - talk 16:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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WP:CIR

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

As suggested elsewhere [190], a WP:CIR review for User:Lukaslt13 (has been informed) might be in order. By his own indications a minor (concrete privacy infos meanwhile removed from his Userpage [191], (a Lithuanian) with a poor grasp of English, which kept him recently a.o. from gaining Rollback rights [192] (discussion currently closed, not yet archived), or becoming a Teahouse Host [193] (where also the issue of experience per se was mentioned). This one is likely understandable though grammatically wrong [194].

Please do read the first link mentioned above at KrakatoaKatie's Userpage, with additional links and depressing reasons for this user's block on the lt.wp untill 2018. Now he wants to edit here, in the belief he is up to it.

The point being, not necesarily doubting good faith in many edits (e.g. rollback vandalism [195] with canned user warning [196] see his contribs list), but communication in an understandable manner is required. Another good sign was his excusing himself for accidentally reverting my antivandalism edit [197] but that discussion also went sort of ununderstandable for me at the end (on both languages).

Some recent edits that did have issues include [198] (rolled back), [199] (test + one edit, rolled back, [200] (a template creation with errors (link to Spanish WP for some reason, instead of to the lt.wp - in the English text; the Lithuanian text does refer to the lt.wp). One edit summary that caught my attention in particular was indeed [201] (".. you can block the IP vandals, but not me, ..". That combined with the reasons for his lt.wp block, mmmm ... Horseless Headman (talk) 18:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]

Strongly support a block. This user has been blocked on a foreign-language version of Wikipedia, and cannot communicate at an acceptable standard of English to edit here. Horseless Headman is correct in assuming that there are WP:CIR issues with this editor. --Ches (talk) 18:44, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Winkelvi breaking 1RR restriction and Tag teaming

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Winkelvi was blocked in January for edit-warring. He was subsequently unblocked over the condition "you are now on a 1RR restriction" and "Any attempt to 'game' the system... will be treated as a violation of the restriction". The condition will expire on 1 May 2016. However, the user gamed the system when --Jilllyjo made a "copy-edit" here, WV reverted it at [202]. -- This was fine. But, however, after JJ's restoration of the c/e, WV made an attempt at WP:Tag team writing "It would be wonderful if someone (Display name 99, BlueMoonset, Chesnaught555?) could change it back". This request for someone to violate the restriction on WV's behalf was, according to me, a violation of the restriction. This is however no surprise, as he/she has a history of 8 blocks. He has also several discussions about him over the ANI page and others. I am asking for administrator intervention.--MaranoFan (talk) 14:21, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd call it clear tag teaming, and I find it personally objectionable, but it's probably unactionable since WP:Tag team is Only An Essay. ―Mandruss 14:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Syre, it is an essay. But read the unblocking admin's comment about gaming. This looks clearly like a violation of it.-MaranoFan (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In no way was I attempting to tag-team or get someone to edit on my behalf. I WAS, however, trying to keep the article clean as it's under GA review. As I stated when I made the request, the red-link editor changed the prose to not only contain a redundancy, but to be too close a paraphrase to the source the content is attached to. I went to the article's GA Review talk page for this very reason. Not to edit war, but to keep the content appropriate. Two of the people I pinged are the reviewers, one is someone who has been helping with finishing the review process. Something important that was left out of MaranoFan's retaliatory filing here is that the user who was working up to edit warring over this did change the redundancy/close paraphrase after I left the message. That in mind, does that mean I "gamed the system" by getting the editor who made the inappropriate changes to fix what they changed? I think not. MaranoFan has been trying VERY hard to get this GA failed and has left several pleas at the review page and the article talk page asking it be failed. This is just another attempt at making that happen. -- WV 15:00, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

EauZenCashHaveIt

Seems this user at Talk:Harold Holt has very strong opinions about me personally. He has multiple times insisted on placing my name in an unflattering manner in a section title ("‎Sources confirm Gillespie was his lover. It has been User:Collect vs. formed consensus for the past two discussions. Move to close please") on the article talk page, has told me in crude terms to go away, and has ignored my posts at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#smithsonianmag.com where another editor specifically agreed with me that where a person says an affair was not "intimate" that using the term "lover" about that person as a fact in Wikipedia's voice where the sources make clear the use is not implying sex, that there is a misuse of the sources. He refuses to allow the word "rumoured" in the article. And the posts at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_202#Sydney_Daily_Telegraph_.22Sydney_Confidential.22_article about the same claim in the past, sourced to a self-described "gossip column." By the way, there is no sound reason at all for any of this speculation in the biography of Harold Holt in the first place.

[203], [204], [205], [206] etc. etc. I pointed out that using an attack in a talk page section name was improper, and you can see his response. Collect (talk) 14:52, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the words of the late great Abe Vigoda, nothing personal here. Anyone reviewing this, please note the length of the section with all its subsections. Then please note the amount of editors who repeatedly displayed an array of sources to reach a consensus. Then please note the amount of replies by Collect which ignore a good chunk of those sources in favor of making their point at all cost. Then please note the amount of times Collect was asked to quit fighting against consensus. Then notice my own polite replies, reminders of policy, and bringing of actual sources to the article. I could go on for a while, but the reality is that Collect has been exhaustinfont color="000FF">Electricg the editor community on that talk page for days now, and someone needs to put an end to it. What I am noticing is that this very report is a staggering display of stubborn and warrior-like behavior, since each and every point they are currently raising has already been disproven on the talk page, and all of us found a plethora of other sources. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 15:10, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: as for the matter at hand, "lover" is her own quote from several reputable sources, brought up numerous times by myself and every other participating editor. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 15:16, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Consensus" can never allow any source to be misused. The source provided specifies that the person denied being in an "intimate" relationship. In the US, "lover" is generally reserved (as a claim of fact) to "intimate" relationships and not to "intellectual" relationships, which is what the source specifically states in pretty much the next sentence. Cheers. And yes - I am known for loathing abuse of sources, especially when the claim has no encyclopedic value to the subject of the article. Collect (talk) 16:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This appears to be a content dispute, with no real call for admin intervention. It's understandable that there is frustration among editors in that discussion, but I see nothing that requires use of admin tools. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:34, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • You seem to have missed the use of a section title as a place to make a personal attack on another editor, etc. And there remains an issue about misuse of sources (including use of a "gossip column") as detailed in the two RS/N discussions as well. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:40, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, other users pointed out, and justly so, that you have been trolling that page for a while. The section title merely states that it has been you vs. a formed consensus, which is far from a personal attack. The gossip column is ancient history - I personally replaced it a while ago. The "misuse" of sources has been disproven to you numerous times. The RS/N discussions were not brought up until right before you went here. You accuse other editors of canvassing (without a valid reason), yet you keep canvassing across multiple noticeboards in spite of a formed consensus - now you are here. Just accept that the consensus exists and move on. Your obsession with this issue is affecting other editors, and is detrimental to our community. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I closed the RfC. I doubt wither side will like the close much. Guy (Help!) 13:35, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[207] is the close - which is exactly what I was asking for. "There is a remarkable degree of heat given that this is basically tabloid tittle-tattle. As Collect notes, agreement of various editors cannot trump policy: independent sources establish that the term is at least somewhat speculative, and even the subject of the claim appears not to have used it." (more follows which does not alter the basic premise for the close). Thanks. Collect (talk) 18:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • "[T]he subject of the claim appears not to have used it" - another false claim that has been disproven by a direct quote. Christ, do you have anything new to present? EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 06:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It should probably be noted that Collect reverted back to his desired version after the discussion had been officially closed and it had been determined that the RfC was not in his favor. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 03:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ticket to Sydney, anyone? Erpert blah, blah, blah... 05:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to post the RfC close in its entirety below so that there is no question of what it says. Softlavender (talk) 07:26, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is a remarkable degree of heat given that this is basically tabloid tittle-tattle. As Collect notes, agreement of various editors cannot trump policy: independent sources establish that the term is at least somewhat speculative, and even the subject of the claim appears not to have used it in the unambiguous sense supported by some editors here. The solution is to use attribution and to take care not to exceed what is stated by the sources (e.g: "Mrs Gillespie was once the secret lover of Australian prime minister Harold Holt - or the alleged secret lover, as has frequently been recorded in the years following Holt's disappearance and prior to her own - as is reporting convention." from the Aus. Daily Telegraph). Terms such as "claimed lover" or "alleged lover" would not violate policy, an overt claim of "lover" probably does, from my reading of this debate, the sources and the relevant policies. And omitting it altogether? That would be perfect. Guy (Help!) 13:13, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
  • It should also be noted, again, that the quote "Harold Holt's lover" comes directly from Gillespie herself, through a book published by the Australian National University. Whoever closed the RfC probably missed this, along with the fact that the fact was printed by numerous respected publishers, and is therefore notable by Wikipedia's standards - not "tabloid tittle-tattle". More importantly, we cannot and should not reward lone warriors who go for days or even weeks after the community had reached a consensus, constantly thwarting everyone's collaborative efforts because they don't like the edit. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I am not here to fight windmills. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 11:09, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, Collect's behavior has been the same throughout this ordeal, see User talk:Collect#Holt: sticks to the same source that was replaced ages ago in order to disprove claim as "tabloid", while completely ignoring ample new evidence. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 11:23, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, his tone has indeed been consistently moderate throughout. Yours, not so much. Are we done here? Guy(Help!) 11:35, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I believe they are called civil POV warriors. Pushing their point in a very moderate tone, but consistently repeating what was disproven to them as if no prior discussion happened. This is the one case where moderate tone is not the virtue you look for in an editor. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 13:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You believe that, do you? And what's your analysis of your own behaviour in this matter? Guy(Help!) 01:13, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In a nutshell, a natural reaction to a deliberate waste of my (and others') time by what I just described. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 11:13, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so it's all about you, you have no problems with the way you approached it, and you consider that you are gifted with a unique insight into Wiki[pedia policy that means you alone have the ability to judge this matter? Or do you admit of the possibility that you might be wrong? Guy (Help!) 17:04, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just love these moments of pure self-inflicted irony... Seems like you're cashing in that ticket to Sydney - isn't that right, Erpert? EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 10:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not even in this discussion anymore because, frankly, it's become very confusing. An uninvolved admin needs to close it, imo. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 10:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Help reporting User

Hi. There us a Jacob Page (talk) who is constantly reverting everyone's edits on the American Idol (season 15) page. I've warned him and he still keeps vandalizing it with wrong information and whenever I revert it he changes it. Back. Help? The only reason I'm here is cause I have a short temper and I don't want to get blocked if I tell him off. Please help asap. Thanks {{Wanheda (talk) 06:52, 8 February 2016 (UTC)}}[reply]

Firstly, you need to notify the other party that you filed this notice. Secondly, I don't think this is the right place for this. It seems to be a content dispute. Have you discussed the topic on the talk page? Sir Joseph (talk) 07:02, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wanheda, you need to provide proof in the form of WP:DIFFs that the user is "constantly reverting everyone's edits on the American Idol (season 15) page". You should also provide proof that you have attempted to discuss these content issues on the article's talk page (which at the moment is blank). I think you should probably withdraw this ANI filing and proceed with discussion on the article's talk page, and reach a WP:CONSENSUS. If you have a short temper, then walk away from Wikipedia until you are calm; do not edit while you are angry and do not call people "idiot" in an edit summary. You may want to read WP:BRD. Also, remember to use a fully explanatory edit summary for every edit you make to the article (and to any article). Hope that helps. Softlavender (talk) 08:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wanheda had previously asked me for help in reporting the user. Although I didn't explicitly point Wanheda here, I said it would be best to raise it at a noticeboard, so I think people should blame me instead a new user if this seems premature. One thing I did notice, though, is that AnemoneProjectors gave Jacob Page a level 4 warning for vandalism in late January. If Page is continuing on his vandalism spree, then this does warrant a closer look. The problem is that I can't really identify vandalism to the TV show, as I'm completely unfamiliar with it. I don't know if it's a content dispute or if Page is intentionally introducing false information. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:09, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mess at Guernsey with one editor unilaterally moving, creating, and mass-editing articles

Following a discussion at Talk:Guernsey, it was agreed to split the article into two. User:BushelCandle has attempted to move the article to a new title and create a third article without consensus. See Guernsey: Revision history, Guernsey (island): Revision history, and Bailiwick of Guernsey: Revision history. I don't know what I can do at this point. Rob984 (talk) 21:11, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article (Guernsey) needs to be rolled back to revision 699771192 (10:50, 14 January 2016) (before any reorganising began), and any new articles deleted, and then discussion needs to be had to determine how the article should be split/reorganised. But someone needs to enforce this. Rob984 (talk) 21:26, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know what needs to happen, but I do hope the move-warring will stop so I can get on with editing the content, wherever it ends up. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:29, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • When are we going to institute some kind of modest badge of shame to be permanently displayed on user pages – one for every time the user comes whining to ANI about a kitten up a tree, a lost pencil, or (as here) a non-important, non-urgent, just-a-content-dispute-with-discussion-in-progress-at-this-very-second non-incident? EEng 21:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see a good deal of move-warring; all I see is Guernsey getting moved to Jurisdiction of Guernsey and back, just once. That's hardly move-warring. Did I miss something? Anyway, Rob's asking for technical assistance at resolving a big mess with page histories, something that requires G6 housekeeping deletions among other things; the admin boards are the best place to make such a request. I disagree with his assessment of the situation, but it's not a run-too-fast-to-ANI situation. Nyttend (talk) 21:57, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Every post here sucks up something like an hour of editor time, just for 200 stalkers to spend 20 seconds eyeballing it. ANI is for urgent or incorrigibly chronic situations. First step: ask a friendly, neutral admin to take a look. Next step: post at AN (not ANI). Maybe after two months, bring it here. EEng 22:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well I give up. It's impossible dealing with that editor. They also surpassed 3RR, so you could deal with that. This is the first time I have come here I think? Where the hell am I suppose to go? Or am I expected to keep reverting his crap? I can't be bothered. Rob984 (talk) 22:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also there is not ongoing discussion. At the time I submitted this he was simply reverting. Now he is just yelling at me because I apparently have no knowledge of the topic... Rob984 (talk) 22:51, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I already said where you should go: ask a friendly but uninvolved admin to take a look. EEng 05:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So just drag in some random admin I know who may or may not want to be involved in the issue? Where they can say "Ugh, here, let me get a hold of admin X", who then gets ahold of admin Y, who then finds the right solution to the problem? Alternatively, post to an admin board, where an interested and willing admin can step forth, solve the issue, and save everyone time. Your proposed "wasted time" is no more than a few minutes of reading. Hardly an issue. --allthefoxes(Talk) 06:22, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not drag, but ask some random admin, who may or may not want to be involved. If he or she does, great. If not, then you might go to WP:AN, but not here to ANI. There's a huge difference between the two, and it's not (as you say) a few minutes of reading. Hundreds of editors watch here, and even 20 seconds from each, just to skim the thread and move on, represents a huge waste of editor time. And BTW, the only reason I suggested an admin is that, apparently, some admin tools may be needed to correct page histories etc. If it weren't for that, I'd be telling the OP he should have tried WP:3O, WP:DRN, etc. before coming to AN or ANI. EEng 07:42, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I admit I did not know the difference. You could have just pointed me there to begin with (if I new of "a friendly, neutral admin", I would have asked). Though the editor has now decided he is actually willing to discuss his proposals. Thanks anyway. Rob984 (talk) 12:18, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon?
I started "discussing" your (so far unsupported) proposal at 12:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC) - a mere 59 minutes after you made your proposal at 11:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC). This referral to ANI by you was made at 21:11, 7 February 2016 (UTC) a full 9 hours and 22 minutes after I had started "discussing" but before you had bothered to address the points I and others had raised on the article's discussion page.
Sometimes you do need to give editors time to respond to proposals before you unilaterally implement them. Not every editor with good material to contribute is necessarily able to respond within seconds and minutes rather than hours and days. Our Bailiwick of Guernsey article wasn't so awful or misleading that there was a desperate and pressing need to keep turning it back into a re-direct without justification by either policy or the consensus of your fellow editors. BushelCandle (talk) 17:33, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Right, regardless, you were edit warring to push your changes that had not yet been agreed (even if you had proposed them on the talk page). You need to realise that is not acceptable per WP:EDITWAR. Anyway, apparently this isn't the place to discuss such matters, so I recommend an admin closes this thread. Rob984 (talk) 19:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Rob984 writes above "it was agreed to split the article into two" but provides no diff of where this mythical agreement was reached (unless the agreement was with himself). In fact a knowledgeable local editor developed our Bailiwick of Guernsey from the re-direct it had been for several years and then, to his great anguish, User:Rob984 unilaterally reverted all his hard work. I do agree that all this moving and re-naming and reverting needs to stop and a plan for article development relating to Guernsey be agreed. If both User:Rob984 and myself agree to abstain from that discussion, I should imagine that agreement can be agreed within a matter of hours and days. BushelCandle (talk) 22:13, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violations at WVU Libraries articles

Editor Melissarogue has been repeatedly adding promotional copyvio from the WVU Library website to a few articles, notably to the article currently titled West Virginia University Libraries. Repeated warnings and explanations at her talk page have been ignored; her only reply so far is a claim that she's somehow being victimised by me, or by Wikipedia policy. The latest addition is this edit with copyvio from https://lib.wvu.edu/evansdale/about and https://lib.wvu.edu/healthsciences/. NeemNarduni2 (talk) 00:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

She's also uploaded at least one blatant copyvio file, which I've tagged for speedy. Her other two uploads, which are less blatant, I've sent to PUF. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 01:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, she hasn't edited since February 1, so I'm inclined to wait to block for copyvios until she responds here or on her talk page. I think she's trying to do the right thing but she simply doesn't understand that she has to rewrite the content. She claims to be working with a Wikipedia librarian - is there a Wikipedian in residence at WVU? Paging the GLAM folks. Katietalk 01:54, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've done the copyvio clean-up on the article and given it the once-over copy-edit-wise. — Diannaa (talk) 02:51, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The clean-up looks good to me. Good work, Diannaa :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 07:18, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed, thanks Diannaa. NeemNarduni2 (talk) 09:38, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have just started editing on wikipedia. I obviously know now that I should have had some more training before I just started editing. I was using a trial and error technique and admitting failed to read the instructions and just jumped right in due to impatience. I now understand what it means to post copyrighted material. I hope I can explain this right... One section of information, about Evansdale Library, has been disputed the most. Originally the section was on the West Virginia University main page under the Libraries section. It was out of place in this location. I copy-pasted it, which I know now was incorrect, and moved it to the West Virginia University Libraries and made no changes. If was then flagged, for being a copy-paste. I then re-wrote the section and added new citations, it was then flagged. It was approved on the WVU main page, but not on the Libraries. I know now that I should have looked into having this section moved over to a different wiki. Now I lost the information and all the past editing, and the specific editors of it, which is all my fault. I don't know if there is anyway to restore what I messed up on. I have a saved copy of the information, but not which users did previous editing. I would like to be able to fix this, but it might now be gone for good. Second, is the matter of the photos. I had hoped I added the correct tags to upload copyrighted photos, but I must have done it incorrectly. I am remedying this situation by replacing the offending photos with ones that I, personally, have ownership of.Melissarogue (talk) 15:21, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The section in question is this: The Evansdale Library supports the academic programs and research centered on the Evansdale Campus. The library holds materials in the disciplines of agriculture, art, computer science, education, engineering, forestry, landscape architecture, mineral resources, music, physical education, and theater. [1] In addition to the collections, Evansdale Library is home to da Vinci's Cafe[2], an Information Technology Services Big Prints! poster printing lab,[3] and the Academic Innovation Teaching and Learning Commons Sandbox.[4]

The original editor was User:That_librarian_88. Is there anyway to revert this back to her? And then, see if I can get this section moved over to WVU Libraries?Melissarogue (talk) 15:34, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Melissarogue This is User:That_librarian_88. Don't worry about reverting it, no harm done. I can see where we are getting into some tricky waters here. Since we work at the institution and are re using content that we have written about our own facilities, it would seem to not be a copyright violation. However, the Wiki Community has no way to confirm that, and they are right to flag the content as copyvio. I would actually say this would be an example of self-plagiarism, if anything. Lesson learned. That librarian 88 (talk) 16:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there is a way for WP to know that you/your employer own the content and wish to license it so that WP can use it: WP:Declaration_of_consent_for_all_enquiries. That's just FYI since in most cases where text (not images) are issue, it's just easier to paraphrase the content for use on WP. EEng 12:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Evansdale Library". West Virginia University Libraries. West Virginia University Libraries. Retrieved 13 January 2016.
  2. ^ "West Virginia University Dining Services". Da Vinci's. West Virginia University Dining Services. Retrieved 13 January 2016.
  3. ^ "Big Prints!". West Virginia University Information Technology Services. West Virginia University Information Technology Services. Retrieved 13 January 2016.
  4. ^ "Sandbox". West Virginia University Teaching and Learning Commons. West Virginia University Teaching and Learning Commons. Retrieved 13 January 2016.

User:Akash3141

Concerns were outlined by multiple editors in this version of the page, but weren't acknowledged. The user has returned to further edit war, adding to a long legacy of warring, puffery, article ownership and highly abusive edit summaries. B. Mastino (talk) 22:00, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed B. Mastino's link above to link directly to archived thread.LM2000 (talk) 22:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How am I being abusive?? I'm being so polite, and all my edits can't be dismissed as irrelevant yet you're still getting raged!?!? WHy?? User:Akash3141 —Preceding undated comment added 22:03, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your serious abuse is detailed in the link above. B. Mastino (talk) 22:07, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your incivility has ended but your problematic edits have not. I'm disappointed that no admin stepped in during the last thread, Akash3141 has continued adding the exact same material that brought him here a few days ago.LM2000 (talk) 22:11, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@LM2000: not to mention Akash3141 always blanks their talk page when a warning is posted. They don't discuss anything, they just edit to their hearts content without discussion of issues. CrashUnderride 03:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Akash and B. Mastino have both been blocked for 3 days for edit warring but I would like an admin to look into extending Akash's block further. His behavior goes well beyond run-of-the-mill edit warring.LM2000 (talk) 22:53, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Disappointed nobody has touched this, besides warning everyone involved over edit summary dialogue. This is more about editor behavior than it is a content dispute (everybody except the user in question opposes the additions), after the 3 day blocks are up and the full protection on The Undertaker expires, Akash will go back to doing what he has been doing for months.LM2000 (talk) 03:09, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Flurry of vandalism at Star Fox-related articles

I've managed to stem the tide - I've blocked two vandalism-only accounts and have protected Fox McCloud, Wolf O'Donnell, and List of Star Fox characters for one week each. I'm concerned there may be others I miss, too - anyone fancy a look to see what else needs to be done?. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 22:18, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a result of the new Star Fox on the WiiU (buy it now!) thats just been released - I will take a look. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is unlikely to be the reason since it wil not be released until mid April.--69.157.255.109 (talk) 00:45, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Really? I assumed it was out by all the ads GAME is running. They are getting in early then... Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:42, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

IMHO urgent BLPNAME violations by User:Werther Hartwig

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please consider hiding the edits of Werther Hartwig (talk · contribs) who has not just engaged in edit warring and repeatedly removed speedy deletion badges such as here, but also severly violates WP:BLPNAME with releasing previously unpublished, in any case not widely disseminated names of the train crash's victims. --PanchoS (talk) 00:48, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, but given that the victims are deceased, aren't these technically not BLP violations anymore? Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 01:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
BLP applies to the recently deceased as well. Looking at the way this user is behaving, regardless of the merits of their position, they are editing disruptively, adding these names all over the place, including on another user's userpage. I've given them a short block for disruptive editing. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:22, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Beeblebrox, especially for the speedy deletions! I was actually more concerned with the WP:BLPNAME violations than with the user's disruptive behavior. The articles nominated for speedy deletion are still available on Google, thereby possibly (we don't know if they're correct) violating the personality rights of these recently deceased persons and their relatives. Can't believe Google immediately enlists stub new stub articles, but doesn't immediately purge articles nominated for speedy deletion per WP:BLP, or at least deleted articles. That's a veritable loophole for stalkers and other bad-faithed people, too.
I reverted his disclosure of the victims' names in various other Wikipedia language editions as well. Optimally, his WP:BLPNAME violating edits on en.wikipedia should be hidden, too. Same in the other language editions, but I can't care about all of them. Regards, --PanchoS (talk) 01:43, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Beeblebrox, Mjroots; the user's user-talk page still needs processing. —Sladen (talk) 13:26, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Beeblebrox, Sladen; I've dealt with his talk page. Left a query at WP:AN re the articles in question. Mjroots (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Katycat3567

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The aforementioned user has been vandalizing my Wikipedia page for the past day without stopping. After an edit war with Another Believer and myself on Cheap Thrills (song), she has falsely accused both of us of vandalism, along with several other ridiculous things. Since the accusations, she has also blanked the page which was reverted by Believer, vandalized my talk page, and copy/paste vandalism templates from her talk page onto mine. I have asked her several times to leave my talk page alone, but she ignores each request. She is continuing to add things onto my page as we speak, with each edit becoming more and more nonsensical. I will alert both users about this immediately. Thanks, Carbrera (talk) 00:49, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This was brought up on another page, and it was taken down because I said I would stop. However, Another Believer put an insulting picture o the page twice. I felt that was unnecessary, so I took one of them down. Now Cabrera apparently feels the need to bring it up again. I realize that vandalizing his page was wrong, however, the picture that was put up is claiming that I am a troll, which I am not. I find that very offensive, and immature. I don't see the need for that to stay up. I will stop vandalizing his page, but can that please be taken down? Katycat3567 (talk) 00:56, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No. ElectricBurst(Electron firings)(Zaps) 01:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. People on here are very rude. I'm regretting ever joining in the first place. I'm truly sorry for vandalizing your page, but I'm saying that being called a troll offends me, and to be told "No" like that...just... where's your common decency? What has the world become? Go ahead and ban me, I don't care. I'd rather not have to deal with awful people like you. Katycat3567 (talk) 01:11, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think we're dealing with a new editor here. Katcat has only been here since yesterday, and I think we're biting a newcomer. Take note, Carbrera. ElectricBurst(Electron firings)(Zaps) 01:15, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have taken that into consideration. However, removing information from my talk page 9 different times within an hour makes me think that Katy has bad intentions. I don't want her to go near my talk page again if this behavior continues. Carbrera (talk) 01:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am new, and very disgusted at the way people have been treating me. I honestly didn't know that my citations for why Cheap Thrills was a single were unreliable, and I certainly did not have bad intentions. That's why it offended me when I was accused of being a troll. This is literally my second day being here. Can't you cut me some slack? I've agreed to wait until proper confirmation before making it a single, but why does the troll thing need to 1) be there in the first place and 2) be there twice? I just think that's insulting. Katycat3567 (talk) 01:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but, this user received multiple warnings on their talk page, especially where the three-revert rule is concerned, which they've so far violated, and seem to engage in battleground behavior in attempts to own a page they once had a hand in partially creating. User even admits to vandalising a page, which Wikipedia is clearly against. User seems to know right from wrong; saying they're new, to me, seems to be an excuse to avoid punishment. livelikemusic talk! 01:22, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am new. I sort of know what I'm doing because my brother taught me how to edit Wikipedia. However, I didn't know about the 3-revert rule (not sure why he didn't mention that). And again, I don't care if I receive punishment. Up until recently, I was seriously regretting even joining. I joined because I wanted to make Wikipedia better. And also, people keep saying I'm really protective of the page I have ownership of, but I didn't even want ownership of it in the first place! I had no clue that making the new page would make me the owner of it. That might sound silly, but I honestly didn't know pages were owned by anyone! I'm seriously confused with that, and I wish people would stop saying that I'm so protective of it. Katycat3567 (talk) 01:25, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Carbrera: Would you mind removing the troll stamp? Katycat3567, has anyone provided you a link yet to Wikipedia:Teahouse?-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 01:28, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And pages are not owned by anyone.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 01:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, someone did. I haven't had time to look at it yet. And if pages aren't owned, why do people keep saying I own the page "This Is What the Truth Feels Like"?Katycat3567 (talk) 01:41, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see, a newbie arrives and makes an edit. It's disputed by a couple of editors, tempers flared and heated words were exchanged. This is not news on WP. However, this can all be settled pretty easily. Katycat3567 has already agreed not to add the edit back in until reliable sourcing can be found, so that puts the content dispute to rest. It would be a sign of good faith if the DFTT stamps were removed from Carbrera's TP. @Katycat3567: you would be well advised to go to the Teahouse as Serialjoepsycho recommended above. There are a lot of rules here that newbies run afoul of when they make their first edit and there are plenty of veteran editors at the Teahouse that will be of assistance. As for ownership of pages, please check this link WP:OWN. Blackmane (talk) 01:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I will look at the Tea House when I get a chance. Katycat3567 (talk) 01:56, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the troll stamps. In no way was I trying to offend you through this. My real problem was that you kept removing things from my talk page without my permission. This doesn't change the fact you are still removing information from This Is What the Truth Feels Like, even at the moment. Why do you keep changing the format of the infobox? Carbrera (talk) 02:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, what? I didn't. I added Stargate, because they are included on the tracklist. If someone changed the infobox, it wasn't me. Katycat3567 (talk) 02:28, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ohhhhh. Ok, so I undid livelikemusic's revert, which I thought was only re-adding Stargate, but it actually changed the whole infobox. I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to do that. It's been corrected. Katycat3567 (talk) 02:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • This all seems resolved. Katycat3567, do take care when reverting to check what info you are placing back into the article to ensure the information you are putting in is what you intend. While know one own's an article, everyone is responsible for their own edits. And BTW, Welcome to wikipedia.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 02:50, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, and thank you. Katycat3567 (talk) 02:51, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Katycat3567: The issue with adding Stargate and Ryan Tedder is that they are not on the final tracklist, as of yet, as producers; they're confirmed via-reliable sources but, we do not know per the tracklist unveil if they're producers, therefore, including them in the ibox is a violation of the crystal-ball policy.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Livelikemusic (talkcontribs)
Seems a whole like an issue for the articles talk page or the users page.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 03:04, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I removed Stargate and Greg Kurstin as producers. Can this please end now? Katycat3567 (talk) 03:09, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Template vandalism

Someone seems to have vandalised the Open Tasks template at WikiProject Palestine, replacing it with an abusive message. I'm on my phone at the moment, so can't easily find and copy diffs. RolandR (talk) 10:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:22, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And semi-protected — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:44, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request that User:OCCUSpriest be blocked

I request that User:OCCUSpriest be blocked due to this user's personal relationship with Craig J. N. de Paulo and clear violations of wikipedia's policies concerning Biographies of a Living person, especially in not keep a neutral point of view, as his statements on this user's talk page, calling the subject a "pervert" and in this user's contributions to Craig J. N. de Paulo profile page and talk page, making conspiratorial statements and unsourced accusations. Thank you. JustTryintobeJust (talk) 15:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you have a conflict of interest as well, JustTryingtobeJust. Please do not attempt to identify this editor. I'll let those editors who are more familiar with this article (that seems to be a major source of conflict) weigh in on whether his statements are BLP violations. Liz Read! Talk! 17:55, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This user was warned about edit warring, and some of his contributions to the article have been revdeled. But despite that, he has not edited the article itself since the 15th January. He has added discussion to the talk page (which if he does have a personal relationship with article subject is exactly what he should be doing). So why this ANI complaint at this time?
He suggested on the talk page that the article itself should be deleted. Looking at the article, I am inclined to agree. It's a mish mash of citation needed tags, dubious tags and several challenged statements (and not for material from this user). This article is a classic article that does not meet WP:BLP. 86.153.133.193 (talk) 18:10, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Which user is "this user", OCCUSpriest or JustTryingtobeJust? Liz Read! Talk! 20:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The same one that the post that I was responding to was refering to (i.e. User:OCCUSpriest) 86.153.133.193 (talk) 12:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Liz, Thank you. JustTryintobeJust (talk) 13:37, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say that you were innocent. You are showing a history of edit warring, long after User:OCCUSpriest stopped, on the very same article and introducing more of the questionable sources refered to in my post. 86.153.133.193 (talk) 17:56, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating reversions. Now actually positive editing, just reversing others work.

HavenHost Had not made any edits at all since mid-2013 until now (since mid-December 2013). Since then has made a few changes to mostly Cebu pages (and a couple of Bohol pages). Just changing from uniformity, with no edit summaries. Other editors tried to reply with WP:VERIFIABILITY etc. but no had any help. (Nor WP:RS, WP:IINFO etc.) They are all ignored.

Naga, Cebu – a lot of {{copyvio}} but carried on
Consolacion, Cebu
Moalboal, Cebu
Sorsogon, Cebu
Balamban
Tabuelan, Cebu
Tuburan, Cebu
Mandaue
Compostela, Cebu
Tagbilaran
Bien Unido, Bohol

Nothing at WP:BRD

194.75.238.182 (talk) 23:07, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

194.75.238.182, Having no edits for a long period of time is never an issue here in Wikipedia as long as you comply with the policies and standards. I am fully aware of the policies and I constantly review them from time to time. Yes I haven't made any edits since mid-December 2013 but I don't see any problem with that. I placed the account on hold but that's not the issue here. WP:IPSOCK is a more serious violation instead. Last December 2015, User:Unbuttered Parsnip was blocked for abusing multiple accounts (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Unbuttered_Parsnip/Archive for proof of violations) and for violating WP:PERSONAL and WP:CIVILITY on multiple users (see Unbuttered Parsnip's talk page). Now, IP address 194.75.238.182 has been suspected as an IP sockpuppet of the same user based on the number of edits made by the IP in question. The articles were edited in the same manner just like in Tuburan, Cebu. The IP user keeps on removing the appropriate header sections and doesn't use proper English on the headers themselves. I've already re-opened the case for further investigation. Also, other editors did not reply with WP:VERIFIABILITY, it was only that same IP keeps on insisting WP:VERIFIABILITY though the copyvio issue just like in Naga, Cebu and Bien Unido, Bohol has already been resolved and validated by admins through copyediting and re-write. Lastly, it was the IP user who reverts with no edit summary at all. I leave edit summaries most of the time but were ignored by the IP. See edit history of the articles in question for proof. Moving forward, if the problem persists, I will request for semi-page protection until this issue of IP sockpuppetry has been resolved. – User:HavenHost (talk) 1:59, 10 February 2016 (UTC).

Typo correction

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please can an administrator correct a title typo on Wembly International Tournament, the correct title spelling should be Wembley International Tournament. Sport and politics (talk) 15:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Uncited ethnicity categories added again by User:Eruditescholar

Last February, I brought the issue of uncited ethnicity categories being added to BLPs based on very flimsy evidence by Eruditescholar. It has come to my attention that this is happening again, again and again. This is at least the second if not third time that this editor has been notified that WP:BLP requires that BLPs require affirmative proof of ethnicity.--TM 02:36, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@TM, This is beginning to look like you have a personal issue with me based on past discussions on this topic. Your basis for bringing this issue here is unwarranted for because I have observed that you make hasty revertions to some of my ethnic categorizations without checking the references first. For example, Candido Da Rocha and Sola Abolaji. I don't need to remind you that only Yoruba people use their native Yoruba language names for their ethnicity. Sometimes, I cite any of the first, middle or last name for males and only the fist, middle or maiden name for females. This is usually evident from the fact that they have multiple names in the Yoruba language. This is sometimes reinforced by the fact that they or their ancestors either have Yoruba ethnicity or originate from Yorubaland which comprises about 1/4 of Nigeria's population. If I can't find name sources, I look for other sources to cite their ethnicity. I don't add ethnic categories to BLPs unless I am sure of it. I have recommended before and I re-iterate that you keep away from Yoruba-related articles. Eruditescholar (talk)
Adding ethnic categories based on a name is Original Research which is not permitted. It is also not permitted to try to enforce ownership over articles or topics by telling other editors not to edit. So stop doing both of those things Eruditescholar, or you may face sanctions. It is not a requirement that articles be categorized by ethnicity, and policy is to omit such classification in the absence of explicit support in reliable sources. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 03:41, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@·maunus. Thanks and I understand your explanation but Wikipedia's rule for ethnic categorizations easily applies to ethnic groups outside Africa. Africans have unique ways of identifying with their ethnic groups and it may not be in concord with non-Africans. Besides, there's too much under-representation of African ethnic groups in Wikipedia. I have not claimed ownership of any article but only gave my recommendation regarding the other editor's unwarranted edits and reverts on Yoruba-related articles. Eruditescholar (talk) 05:07, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As long as Wikipedia does not have special rules applying to African ethnicgroups you will have to follow the rules we have in the way you categorize African people.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 05:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Eruditescholar has persisted with this form of disruptive editing even since this issue was brought here. I think we need administrative action since clearly the editor is unwilling to stop.--TM 22:49, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is now clear that inspite of the glaring evidence of ethnicity stated in most of these articles, especially on Abayomi Olonisakin, you have decided to be irrationale. You happen to be the only editor who brings this issue here for discussion. This a continuation of your grudges on past admin discussions regarding this topic and not necessarily because you want the articles in question to be good or informative. If you have personal issues with me or my editing, this is the wrong place to let it out. Eruditescholar (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 5:00, 2 February 2016
I have some sympathy with Eruditescholar's POV in the sense that it is true assumptions are commonly made and accepted in certain places based on name, look, place of origin or whatever and so it's often simply not stated as it's considered unnecessary. However our standards for living people are clear, WP:BLPCAT and Euriditescholar needs to follow them. If they wish to make exceptions or change the general guidelines, they'll need the WP:RFC before, not after. (And frankly despite my sympathies, I don't think I'll support any such exceptions.) BTW, if you are persistently adding WP:OR to WP:BLPs despite clear requests to stop, this is indeed the right place to deal with it. You should also learn to WP:AGF as even before you were replied, you were already told by another editor who isn't Namiba that adding cats based on OR was unacceptable. Also remember it is your responsibility if you are adding ethnicity categories to ensure that such categories are supported by the article with references. The fact that it's in one of the references somewhere, doesn't make it acceptable to add categories to the article if it isn't actually mentioned in the article (at least in the infobox) with references. Mentioning some references in the edit summary also isn't the way to handle it. People should be able to see the support for the categories by looking at the article, they should not need to look through the edit history. Nil Einne (talk) 07:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I see in the previous discussion you were warned about our requirements by multiple people Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive874#Continued addition of uncited ethnicity categories by User:Eruditescholar. Personalising this as some sort of grudge by Namiba, when you were not only already informed of our requirements by someone else here, but the 'grudge' you refer to was actually your failure to follow our sourcing requirements which you were warned about by multiple other people, is extremely disappointing. It's entirely reasonable for people who've observed your poor behaviour before to follow your contribs to make sure it isn't happening again. And I suspect Namiba probably wasn't even following your contribs but happened to notice the problem when you edited an article they were watching. Problematic behaviour that an editor isn't willing to change is generally an appropriate topic of discussion at ANI. If it's repeated bad behaviour that they've already been warned about it's even more appropriate. In other words, the only "grudge" that anyone has is that we want you to stop adding categories without appropriate sourcing because consensus is that it does damage wikipedia and our articles when you do so. While you're welcome to disagree with out sourcing requirements for ethnicity categories until and unless you get them changed, you do have to follow them. Nil Einne (talk) 11:34, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Still more of the same adding of ethnicity categories without reliable sources saying that a BLP is in fact of a certain group. Will an admin please take action against this user who refuses to comply with WP rules?--TM 22:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wondering if @EdJohnston: has anything to say, as they warned EruditeScholar last time. Nil Einne (talk) 13:39, 3 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Eruditescholar is unrelenting despite being warned over and over again.--TM 14:00, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Can anyone please bring TM to order? His recent reverts to some of my edits (even when ethnicity is obvious and sourced) are getting on my nerves, most especially on Mosun Filani. Eruditescholar (talk) 14:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry but you are the one who needs to be "brought to order", you simply cannot add claims of ethnicity without a reliable sources specifically stating that. Having a Yoruba name, speaking Yoruba or appearing n Yoruba films is not enough for the purpose of Wikipedia's ethnic categorization. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 19:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@·maunus: The sources are not only based on her Yoruba names or the fact that she can speak Yoruba! Please see her talk page. The sources extracted either specified her family s' native roots as Ekiti State which is part of the Yoruba cultural region or call her a Yoruba actress. What other proof is needed? Eruditescholar (talk) 20:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Coming from the Yoruba region is also not evidence of anything. Only a source that specifically states that she is Yoruba is enough. I would probably accept a source saying that she is a Yoruba actress. But if there is any reason to believe that that may not accurately reflect her own sense of identity - for example if there is a conflicting source calling her an "Igbo person", then it would not be enough. And in all cases, when your edits are contested you need to start discussing it on the talkpage.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:53, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I agree with you, coming from a Yoruba region is not sufficient proof of origin. It is possible for a non-Yoruba person to be born in Yorubaland but in all cases, it is simply stated that they were born there. It is only the Nigerian state that they or their ancestors hail from, coupled with their Yoruba names which qualifies their ethnicity. For example: former Miss World, Agbani Darego and British actor, Hugo Weaving were all born in Yorubaland but their family's roots are in Rivers State and Europe respectively. Neither of them bear Yoruba names. That's why the Yoruba names and other sources are used with their places of origin. I have never encountered anyone with a Yoruba name, hailing from Yorubaland who isn't a Yoruba person. Babatunde Fashola, Folake Solanke and Adekunle Fajuyi all fulfilled this criteria before citations were added to support their ethnicities. Eruditescholar (talk) 21:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is also relevant to refer to past editing related to this topic regarding the other editor in question: (User:Ukabia). This past discussion revealed his disruptive nature especially on some Yoruba-related articles. He edits mostly Igbo-related articles but he had a history of removing sources from Yoruba-related articles. This was also mentioned by another editor on his talk page:User talk:Ukabia#Yoruba Page. Eruditescholar (talk) 22:13, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just to repeat one last time, it is not acceptable to give someone an ethnicity based on where they came from or their names, that is WP:OR and particularly wrong in WP:BLPs. That means it's still not acceptable to use both the details to claim ethnicity, that remains OR in particular WP:Syn. If you continue to do so, you should expect to be blocked. And no it doesn't matter what you have or have not encounter in the past. Whether most people fulfill these criteria before you found proper sources it even more irrelevant.

I'm not sure what your complaint about Ukabia is. You didn't provide any diffs and I don't recall seeing Ukabia in the articles I saw you editing. The 3RR link shows you were both violated 3RR, but that was something dealt with. The discussion there suggests your edits were a bigger problem, since while violating 3RR is never acceptable (barring the exceptions which I presume didn't apply), Ukabia seemed to be following and arguing in favour of following wikipedia policies and guidelines which require sources for ethnicity. You seemed to be doing what you're doing here, violating our policies and guidelines by trying to add ethnicity tags based on OR. The other link was to something in August 2013. Perhaps it's relevant if you can show a pattern of very long term problematic editing but it itself it's not particularly relevant.

09:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Besides, TM, Ukabia was the only editor who engaged in edit warring with me over Yoruba-related articles. That prompted me to reveal his motive here. His tendencies to vandalise Yoruba-related articles seemed similar to the former editor who reported me here. I will comply with Wikipedia's policies and stop adding Yoruba ethnic categorizations based on people with Yoruba names and births in Yorubaland. Notwithstanding, I want to clarify a criteria which still passes WP:BLP: I want to emphasize that originating or hailing from a place is different from being born there as explained earlier. In Africa including Nigeria in particular, irrespective of names and places of birth, a person's ethnicity is usually primarily first determined by the community, village, town or city that he or she is indigenous to. All other factors or additional criteria used in ethnic identifications becomes secondary. Therefore, if reliable sources state that the person in question (hails from or is a native/indigene) of a place which also implies that he/she has family roots or ancestry from the place, I deem it more accurate to ascertain ethnicity than when it simply states that the person was born in the place in question. Eruditescholar (talk) 12:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Eruditescholar has been warned previously and has continued these disruptive edits, even since this discussion started. Clearly, reading through this discussion, he is unwilling to change his disruptive editing habits.--TM 11:07, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@TM, This further exposes your desperation to always achieve your aim after bringing me to ANI on this topic. Your assertion is false. In order to prove your point, can you please reveal subsequent edits after this discussion continued midway? What disruptive edits have I done again that you are implying? Eruditescholar (talk) 11:24, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Obstructive IP editor at Barbara Allen (song)

Earlier today I made this report at AIV regarding continued disruptive editing by User:23.241.194.45 at Barbara Allen (song) after 4 warnings. The administrator dealing has directed me to ANI instead. The talk page discussion Talk:Barbara_Allen_(song)#Origins is pertinent, possibly also the discussion on the AIV admin's page.

A content dispute (regarding origins of the song) was the background but after trying to persuade the IP to engage in the WP:BRD cycle by accepting the status quo ante and discussing, they effectively refused this path, adding back the contentious text to the article. The issue then became the unco-operative and disruptive behaviour of the user.

The first vandalism warning was issued for this edit as it included the clear misreperesentation of the text of a quote (in the citation by Raph). The text was added back by the IP here, minus the alteration to the quote this time, and on investigation it became plain that the cited sources therein, at least in some cases, did not support the edit. In the light of the previous edit's manipulative character, it seemed reasonable that the intent was again to misrepresent. Another warning was issued, the improperly cited material removed but it was added back. Rather than attempting to remove the material again, I tagged the article that its factual accuracy was in dispute, tagged the specific disputed element, tagged the sources which were demonstrably misrepresented and requested quotations from the remaining sources, there being reasonable suspicion they were similarly misrepresented. The IP user immediately removed the tags, was warned this was disruptive, then repeated the removal: here and here.

My issue is thus less the inclusion of the misrepresented material now but that the IP is blocking me from even noting in the article that the material is contested.

I requested both on the article talk page and in attempted dialogue with the IP at the AIV admin's page that "Progress would be made by allowing me to indicate my dispute of your edits on the article page without templates being blanked and by addressing those tags that request quotations from the sources which you claim to support your case but refuse to provide." No such reversion to inclusion of the tags has been made to the article and neither are the requested quotes from the citations forthcoming at talk. Any path to resolution of the dispute is thus blocked and the existence of the dispute obscured from the article itself.

Per my AIV submission, I would have thought the IP's continued obstructive and disruptive behaviour worthy of a temporary block but I'd be interested in any views as to a way forward on the matter. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:50, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • As I have stated before, I was not being disruptive, Mutt Lunker repeatedly deleted well sourced information and violated the three delete rule. He has also used reporting me, on pages such as this one and others as a form of bullying in an attempt to gain leverage for his poorly source and unsubstantiated view. He's resorted to things such as name calling, giving me a "final warning" as a first warning and then attempting to force his view by reporting me. All of my edits, are supported by the sources I provided, his are not and he has engaged in an edit war accordingly of which this is part.23.241.194.45 (talk) 01:38, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to take this edit as emblematic of what's going on here. The IP's formatting is messed up, the style in the citations is all over the place and they freely offer (unwarranted) editorial commentary, and the sourcing, what I can see of it, is below par. Not many links are provided but this one is not a reliable source, and it's remarkable that they left the BBC source in, quote and all, "This folk song originated in Scotland". Combine that with the vandalism claims and the lack of good faith presented in one of their very first edits to the article, "seems to have been inserted to push false narrative", and I think we're dealing with someone who is riding a hobby horse without decent knowledge of our guidelines regarding behavior and policy. If they continue in this vein they should be blocked. Drmies (talk) 03:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Drmies as I stated, I don't think I was "called out" on something I think I was accused of something, something which I contend I didn't do. As you say about the BBC source, I argued that that was not a valid source, but Mutt Lunker argued it was. The edit that you label as not being in good faith was, as I stated on the talk page of the article, simply an error. Also, you state that my sourcing is below par, but I don't see how the sourcing it replaced isn't? As I stated before, I was given a "final warning" as a first warning by Mutt Lunker, the sources I provided match the info I provided and I would contend that the charge of someone "riding a hobby horse" would much more accurately be directed at Mutt Lunker.23.241.194.45 (talk) 06:01, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've just added these sources to the talk page of the Barbara Allen page: [1] Barbara Allen is addressed on page 382 as explicitly "English". No mention of Scotland. Specifically described as an "English vernacular song"

[2] Barbara Allen is described once again as an "English folk song" with no mention made of Scotland.

[3] This is one that analyzes the song in depth and describes it's tune as being "English". Not a single mention of Scotland. Barbara Allen is analyzed on page 330

All of these are peer-reviewed academic sources, whereas the edits by Mutt Lunker and now Drmies would have these be outweighed by one sentence from an inaccurate BBC article, a book on the Irish potatoe famine that is NOT about musicology, and I don't have access to this particular book so I can't comment on the ostensibly relevant quote, but it is from a different field than that which pertains to the article. (Arthur Gribben, ed., The Great Famine and the Irish Diaspora in America, University of Massachusetts Press (March 1, 1999), pg. 112.) and lastly by a non-academic songbook from the 1980s which is not peer-reviewed and was published privately. I still contend that I am not the one being disruptive but rather that Mutt Lunker is. Thankyou for hearing me out23.241.194.45 (talk) 06:45, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Before the Folk-Song Society: Lucy Broadwood and English Folk Song, 1884–97 E. David Gregory Folk Music Journal Vol. 9, No. 3 (2008), pp. 372-414
  2. ^ Barbara Allen by Andre J. Thomas Review by: Brett Scott The Choral Journal Vol. 46, No. 12 (JUNE 2006), p. 114 Published by: American Choral Directors Association
  3. ^ Gammon, V. , & Portman, E. (2013). Five-time in english traditional song. Folk Music Journal, 10(3), 319-346.
  • Points:
  1. This is a content dispute.
  2. This is an edit war (and both parties should receive talk-page warnings re: edit-warring).
  3. The article should therefore probably be fully protected until both parties stop edit-warring and establish consensus on the Talk page.
  4. The IP made the BOLD change (to England); therefore since the BOLD change was contested and reverted, per WP:BRD is it incumbent on the IP to establish a WP:CONSENSUS before replacing that BOLD change, no matter how many citations they provide.
  5. If no WP:CONSENSUS for the change to "England" is ever reached, the IP can avail themselves of some form of WP:DR if desired, but cannot replace the change. The status quo ante, which in this case was "Scotland", must remain until a verifiable WP:CONSENSUS is present to change it.
-- Softlavender (talk) 10:34, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks all.
Regarding the IP's claim that their first warning was a final warning, the users talk page clearly bears out the timed sequence of warnings with a first warning first and a final warning fourth.
Regarding edit warring, I appreciate that the edit history is convoluted:
This first edit directly contradicted the quote in the source from Raph, hence my reversion. I had not noticed that the IP was altering the quote itself at that stage. I did not contest this aspect of the IP's edits as it was uncited and OR-ish (though potentially correct).
This edit repeated the last, so again contradicting the existing source and this time adding a new source which the included hyperlink showed that it did not address the issue at hand (not without a considerable dose of interpretation at the most charitable).
Arguably these edits could have been seen as disruptive with their plain contradiction of the existing source and improper use of a supposed second, even with my not having noticed the alteration in the quote, but the somewhat chaotic nature of the edits made me think the IP simply hadn't read the article and existing sources properly so I issued no warnings and engaged on the talk page.
Per my edit summary, this was the point that I noticed the misrepresentation of the quote, clearly disruptive in nature, indicating the suspect nature of the IP's campaign and that a first warning was clearly now warranted. Now that bad faith was apparent, my subsequent reversion and vandalism warning was on this basis, with the IP's misuse of unsupportive citations supporting the bad faith assessment. I have always understood that reversion of clear vandalism does not consitute warring. The IP subsequently claimed that "changing that source was an error" and as there are evident competence issues, even if error were to be accepted, the edits' nefarious appearance warranted treatment as being of bad faith when addressed.
It was then clear that the IP was not going to heed the warnings given to them and would continually revert to their text. On that basis, I left their content in place and, as mentioned above tagged the article that its factual accuracy was in dispute, tagged the specific disputed element, tagged the sources which were demonstrably misrepresented and requested quotations from the remaining sources, there being reasonable suspicion they were similarly misrepresented.
The IP user immediately removed the tags, was warned this was disruptive, then repeated the removal: here and here. Such removal of maintenance templates is also, to my understanding, classed as vandalism.
In summary my reversions at the article thus regarded: 2 of content which clearly contradicted sources but were not treated as active vandalism at that stage, per WP:AGF; 2 regarding content edits but where the disruptive nature was plainly apparent, so action on vandalism rather than a content dispute; one of the removal of tags rather than content, where the disruptive nature was likewise apparent. In each case, when it was evident the IP would persist in restoring their edits, I left their verison in place. Reversion of two evidently questionable versions followed by that of three plainly disruptive ones, with each issue being left when it was plain the IP would revert, could not reasonably be classified as warring.
Again, thanks everyone. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:29, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is really interesting stuff for a literary scholar, but digging a bit more into the archives and databases produced fruit very quickly. More on talk page; little more to say here--unless the IP editor wants to continue charging "vandalism" in an editorial dispute. Mutt, I reverted further since the speculation was such that tagging it was, in my opinion, of no benefit for the reader. Drmies (talk) 16:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
More than happy with the revert past my latter tagged version as that was a compromise due to the IP's insistence on restoring their content and to avoid warring. Very interesting results on the research. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This should have gone to WP:ANEW, not ANI. The IP made the BOLD change here, and then proceeded to make 6 edit-warring reversions within 17 hours (from here to here). The IP should have been reported to ANEW and blocked, and then if after being unblocked they wanted to pursue the matter further, a WP:3O or other WP:DR could have been called in. ANI isn't for edit wars and content disputes; that's why we have those other boards. Softlavender (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the advice, I was not aware of ANEW, which may prove useful in future, this being far from the first time I've seen a BOLD editor accuse warring and/or vandalism and insist on the other party winning consensus in the DISCUSS part of the cycle before REVERT take place. As mentioned I brought the matter here on the advice of the admin who turned down my submission at WP:AIV. I still wonder that the latter was not a suitable course of action, although I can understand that in this case the disruptive nature of the IP's edits may have been less evident without a full explanation of each, per above. Mutt Lunker (talk) 08:20, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
AIV was the wrong venue; the IP appears to be a good-faith editor (despite the rather hostile edit summaries) who was edit-warring, not vandalizing. Once the IP had made two reverts, they should have been given an edit-warring warning notice (see WP:WARN and use Control+F edit war to find the templates). After the (third or) fourth revert, assuming you had posted at least one talk-page edit-warring warning before that occurred, they should have been reported to WP:ANEW. I know it's a lot to take in but it's good to know for future reference. BTW, try to stay under 4 reverts in 24 hours yourself, even if you have to leave the "wrong" version there while you report and wait for the editor to be blocked, so that you don't get sanctioned for edit-warring yourself. Softlavender (talk) 10:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, all very useful as this general type of situation is tediously common, sadly, and it's useful to know the most efficient means of tackling it. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the IP now regarding good faith but this is only with the benefit of hindsight, now that it is increasingly evident how far their lack of experience, unenlightened attitude and haphazard editing extends. At the time it was more than reasonable to assume that their repeated blatant misrepresentation of a linked quote was intentionally deceptive and thus actively vandalous rather than warring alone, hence my issuing the first warning only at that point and no longer being concerned about exceeding 3RR as my reversions were combatting (apparently clear cut) vandalism; it's kind of academic now though. (IP, I would encourage you to stay, please accept the advice from these editors and benefit from what you have learned for future editing.)
In regard to how to tackle this kind of thing in the future can I ask for some clarification? I've seen the situation numerous times where a bold editor, on reversion of their edit and being referred to WP:BRD instead insists that the reversion of their edit is vandalous/warring/bullying, effectively insisting the cycle be BDR. The reverting editor is in the position of having made the first reversion, so if the bold editor reverts again they will only be level in their number of reverts and likely to invoke pot/kettle to any edit-warring notice. For the bold editor to reach a fourth revert, the reverting editor would have had to have reached that point already; at three reverts apiece the bold editor brandishes 3RR as if an allowance and threatens the reverter, or indeed reports them if they execute the fourth revert first. Otherwise does the reverter relent at the stage where they have reverted the bold edit three times and the bold editor has followed suit and even though 3RR has not been exceeded, report the bold editor for warring and refusing to adhere to BRD and expect a sympathetic response with their report? The first way has the reverter stymied or risk being blocked, the second way having the 3RR report on the bold editor being flung out for being premature. Can one say to the bold editor that as the legitimate cycle is BOLD, REVERT, DISCUSS, as they have instead implemented BOLD, REVERT, REVERT, from that point they are warring? The pattern is so predictable that either there is a simple formula to deal with it by adherence to policy, or if the snags I list are always open to interpretation, a lengthy, time-consuming and wasteful experience for those involved.
I don't like this kind of game of chicken about 3RR but it would be useful to know an appropriate way of proceeding in this sort of circumstance. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:15, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note to the IP: Out of your 125 total edits to Wikipedia, 16 of them have been to falsely accuse good-faith editors of vandalism and/or edit-warring, when in all cases it has been you that has been edit-warring. You need to (1) stop these accusations immediately, (2) edit civilly and collaboratively, and (3) strictly abide by WP:BRD, which means that if your additions or changes are contested or reverted, you need to wait until a consensus and agreement is established on the article talk page before reinstating your preferred changes. You were very lucky you were not blocked here for your edit-warring and accusations. Softlavender (talk) 10:55, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Another note to the IP: Please do not inform every editor involved in this discussion with the {{subst:ANI-notice}}. That template is only reserved when starting a discussion about someone, not informing everyone involved. Per the box, When you start a discussion about an editor, you must notify them on their user talk page. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} 12:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, looks like my return to AGF was misplaced. Want to see the most obvious sockpuppet ever? After nearly having my fingers burned on this I'm reluctant to revert but could someone else step in please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are also these posts at talk by the user's new IP and they are still tackling the article. Mutt Lunker (talk) 00:34, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Softlavender, just go ahead and block IP 130.182.24.89, since by now the editor behind the IP is clearly edit warring and disrupting. Oh, wait, sorry--EdJohnston, save us from having to file this report. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've fully protected Barbara Allen (song) for three days. No objection to another admin taking action against specific editors if they believe it's justified. EdJohnston (talk) 05:34, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Drmies, I'm not an admin so if there are any other admin actions to take on this mess, you or EdJohnston or some other admin should take them. Softlavender (talk) 08:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I know--that's why I said "oh, wait, sorry--". Maybe you should just run for admin or something. Drmies (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:36u6s

Can someone consider a WP:NOTHERE block for User:36u6s? The editor's been repeatedly removing the MFD notice on Draft:Max (Shogumon) which is the third nonsense fictional Pokemon character creation of that editor, after User:Lashbourne/Mike Firemunks and Mike Firemunks both of which are nonsense versions of Ash Ketchum. I'm involved having listed the page for MFD. Someone at Commons should also delete all their cartoon images. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:13, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sure thing. Drmies (talk) 03:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, I need a real CU here, someone who knows what they're doing. I was looking to see if Lashbourne (from the draft) was part of it, but didn't see that. However, dear CU, please check the "regular" IP address (not the IPv6 ones), which has a whole bunch of accounts, and under the IP a bunch of "Mike Firemunks" edits--but I don't know what to make of the accounts. Drmies (talk) 04:06, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One I think was a school block so I suspect it's children. The images look of that quality. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:14, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but I don't want to go around blocking accounts that don't need blocking, though I think CU will conclude that they are the same machines and it cannot be proven that it's the same people--or that it's different people. Maybe Mike V knows what to do. Drmies (talk) 04:26, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mike V knows what to do. Drmies (talk) 04:33, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's necessary. I should have just hoax deleted it instead of MFD and blocked the editor in retrospect. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
These accounts are Confirmed:
36u6s (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
Lashbourne (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
These accounts are Possilikely (a mix between possible and likely) solely on the technical data:
Lukeson2 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
Marlonakamarlon (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
Ebola18 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
If there's a good faith unblock request from these 3 accounts. I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Mike VTalk 04:44, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cmjohnson65

Cmjohnson65 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Requesting admin action for this user. User was given final warning for vandalism related to white pride by Loriendrew but erased the message from their talk page ([208]). Later Robert McClenon final warned them again for edits on white pride ([209]) but they deleted the warning and responded with comments about Wikipedia being an insane asylum and about a radical Islamic president ([210]). An IP editor baited them with personal attacks ([211]) which the user removed ([212]) and responded with more personal attacks ([213]). This behavior, along with their recent edits related to white pride convinces me they are NOTHERE. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 00:02, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I apologise for the personal attack. This guy got to me and I felt calling a spade a spade was the only way. No excuse. The concerns expressed here are valid and I do maintain (without the R word) that what I said was right, and his latest comment on his talk page seems to be rather hypocritical. Support an indefinite ban under WP:NOTHERE given he ignored what I said prior to that about sourcing. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and I forgot to add that his accusation of there being slanderous content on the White Pride page borders on a violation of WP:LEGAL given that there is nothing wrong with what's there - as I think we all know. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
203, your first comment about sourcing was valid and it turns out, I repeated the comment posted by you that I didn't realize had been removed. It was your second comment that was a problem and it was quickly removed. LizRead! Talk! 00:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I was apologizing for, Liz. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Add in userpage vandalism to the mix, see [214]--☾Loriendrew☽ (ring-ring) 00:21, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a block - Clearly WP:NOTHERE. If they actually thought that the article was biased or non-neutral in its point of view, they could have requested formal mediation, but they not only blanked a large part of the article against consensus, but also engaged in personal attacks. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)This looks a bit suspicious to me. A few posts above a user also posted about issues at White Pride and ended up getting CU blocked. Then this editor appeared after a 1 year hiatus. Anyone hear the quacking? Blackmane (talk) 00:27, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I need ear plugs. The quacking is too loud for my liking! Anyone for an SPI? I obviously can't. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:34, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

-

There are no ducks here. Feel free to investigate that hypothesis by any means you wish, I have not previously participated in any actions pertaining to the page(s) in question.

− − I apologize for my conduct and general unfamiliarity with the community rules and standards. I will voluntarily withdraw from any editing or commentary activities until such time as I believe that I have a solid grasp on those rules and standards and am willing to abide by them.

Cmjohnson65 (talk) 00:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest everyone look at his talk page, where in the very next paragraph after his "apology" he promptly invalidates it. I called it there and I'm calling it here as well. WP:NOTHERE remains valid. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Aaaaand the comment there was reverted. What a surprise. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:41, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've added an entry to this SPI. At the very least, we have some meatpuppets if not sleepers. Blackmane (talk) 00:45, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've asked for a CheckUser with the latter in mind even though I didn't say that. Good move. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 00:49, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mike V has blocked for meatpuppetry. Looks like this is all wrapped up. Blackmane (talk) 01:11, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He's been blocked for disruptive editing. No action on the SPI because it looks like Reddit has a bit to answer for with regard to meat puppetry. If people have White pride on their watchlist it's worth keeping for now in case more fools show up. I'd look for the thread in question but I don't have the time. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 01:13, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would ask for a few admin eyes on White pride in view of the recent disruption. Thank you for blocking the disruptive editor. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All of the recent activity might have been prompted by this New Observer article that criticizes Wikipedia's White Pride article and discussions like this and others I've found online. I found blogs expressing discontent about the White Power article that go back to 2014 so it's not a new sentiment, there must be some call to action going on. LizRead! Talk! 01:24, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
TL;DR on the Reddit link - well I saw some and there was some good points made about the term "White Pride" being taken to extremes by white supremacists. That in effect is what has been sourced on the article here and the -RWord- fools go to town on that not realizing what is actually happening. Hence the need for sources to begin with. As originally pointed out somewhere, the correct procedure is to mediate. If one just goes ahead and does what this fool did, you look like a supremacist (of any description, not just white). Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with what's there now. 203.15.226.132 (talk) 01:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

endless dispute over Gospels on the Jesus page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This conflict is about the Jesus page: Jesus (edit talk history links watch logs). It involves these editors:

To a lesser extent, these editors have also been involved in related discussions:

For months, one opinionated editor has tried to push their unpopular views on the other editors, advocating for major changes to the page. Most other editors have repeatedly denounced these suggestions as biased, unnecessary, contrary to the WP way of doing things, and against consensus. Currently all actual discussion on the topic has broken down, and the ad hominem comments are increasing. I'm here asking an administrator to help us resolve this impasse. I'm the opinionated editor with the unpopular views. I say we should describe Jesus the way RSs describe Jesus. The most active, vocal editors, on the other hand, strongly prefer that the page describe Jesus primarily the way the Gospels describe him. Please help us.

On the surface, the issue is content, but underneath it's conduct. Vocal editors have established a norm on the Jesus page that editors should decide how to describe Jesus based on their best judgment rather than on policies or RSs. Their approach is to say that no big changes can be made to the page without consensus, and then they withhold consensus from changes they don't like. Meanwhile, no consensus is required to keep the page the same. Since they back up their decisions with personal opinion rather than policy and RSs, there's no evidence I can look at with them to come to a mutual understanding. In fact, they dismiss the idea of evidence. I've been working on the page slowly but steadily for over a year now, and now my progress is at a standstill. For their part, the editors genuinely believe that they are in the right, and they are absolutely sick of me and my refusal to go along with the majority. More and more, they refuse to even explain why they revert my edits, remove dispute tags, etc. With no progress possible, I'm escalating this issue and hoping for a resolution.

Why is this issue so heated? The point of the other editors' stance is to protect the Gospel accounts of Jesus. Contrary to WP guidelines and the examples of RSs, this page describes Jesus primarily by summarizing the Gospels. Critical commentary is explicitly excluded from the body of this section, which is the biggest section on the page. Historical information is relegated to a secondary section, so the article has two different sections to describe Jesus' life, baptism, teaching, miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection. An open discussion based on policies and RSs would potentially lead to the Gospels no longer getting favored treatment as the primary way we tell the reader about Jesus.

Naturally, these editors sincerely think that they are following policy and RSs. They just don't point to any policies or RSs to support them. The big questions they don't answer are:

  • What RS describes Jesus primarily by summarizing the Gospels?
  • What policy says we should describe Jesus' life twice, once as a Bible character, and once as a historical figure?
  • What guideline or RS demonstrates that we should exclude critical commentary from the Gospel summaries?
  • How would it hurt the page for it to emulate Britannica's approach and merge the historical and Gospel descriptions?

My last attempt to reach consensus was a request on the dispute resolution noticeboard. A few potential moderators recused themselves, one editor refused to participate on the grounds that it's a conduct issue and not a content issue, and no moderators volunteered to handle the dispute. Previously I had tried an NPOV request on the question of whether the historical section should go first. One commenter said put the historical section first, and another said merge the historical and Gospel sections, but neither suggestion was acted on. I also tried an RfC on the the same question. The results were mostly No, although no policies or RSs were referenced in opposition to the idea.

For the nine years that I've been editing WP, the Gospels section of the Jesus article has been a source of recurrent conflict. In 2006 when I started editing WP, the Gospels section had no historical introduction (link). Other editors and I added one, but only against resistance from certain editors. The compromise at the time was to have a historical intro to the section but to exclude historical and scholarly comment from the body of the section. There is no support for such a compromise in WP guidelines or among RSs. To this day, editors put up a lot of resistance to the historical approach to describing Jesus, even resisting additions to the parallel "historical views" section. This resistance is a big problem because the historical approach is the mainstream approach, which WP should summarize faithfully.

You can see how far the Jesus article diverges from RSs by comparing it to good encyclopedias.

Here is Encyclopedia Britannica Online.
Here are Jesus entries from several online encyclopedias.

Here are several diffs where the other editors have their say. They offer several opinions on why the page should be this way, but none of those opinions are backed up by WP policies or by RSs.

Historical information restricted.

  • Special restriction on what we can put in the history section: diff
  • Historical information excluded from Gospels section: diff diff
  • This sentence was modified back and forth and then finally deleted: diff
  • Reference to world's top scholar on historical Jesus deleted. diff
  • Deleting references to the notability of historical works: diff
  • "There are no 'historical accounts'": diff
  • Historical commentary excluded from Gospels section, only description of the text allowed: diff
  • Historial commentary has no value other than to whisper doubt into the ears of the naïve: diff
  • Primary-text tag removed from Gospels section: diff
  • Primary-text tag removed from Transfiguration section: diff

Policies, guidelines, and RSs do not apply.

  • We should use other WP articles as our guidelines rather than RSs: diff
  • RSs aren't relevant to this issue: diff
  • Gospels are primary sources so they go before history, the examples of RSs don't apply: diff
  • The issue is not about evidence or facts, but about what editors prefer: diff
  • Rules for WP:STRUCTURE and POV do not apply to Gospel accounts: diff
  • Policies don't apply because Gospels are primary sources: diff

Discussion is stymied. For example...

  • Undue weight tag removed: diff
  • LittleJerry refuses to carry on discussion of why he reverted Undue Weight tag: diff
  • Undue weight tag removed and historical commentary deleted: diff
  • Farsight refuses to explain why he reverted the Undue Weight tag: diff
  • Done with my petulant bullshit: diff
  • Refusal to discuss Due Weight tag link
  • Refusal to conclude conversation about Gospel contradictions: link
  • Refusal to explain what's wrong with the Britannica approach or really to discuss anything further: diff
  • At Farsight's suggestion, StAnselm shuts down my thread as tendentious: link

The norm of making decisions without reference to RSs or policy spreads to new editors who join the page. Here's a new editor agreeing with an approach where no RSs or policies have entered the discussion: diff

The Jesus page gets a lot of traffic and is mirrored by other Internet sites, so this page should show WP at its best. This page is important enough that I think that this conflict deserves high-level attention. Please help. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:56, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are a couple problems here. First, this is a WP:TLDR post. Second, this is a content dispute and, since there is little that admins can do about that, you should move this to WP:DR. MarnetteD Talk 16:36, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MarnetteD beat me to it, I was going to make exactly the same comment. Guy(Help!) 16:59, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback. I'm happy to take this someplace else if that's better. So far, content-oriented disputes haven't worked. I took this issue to dispute resolution already. The main editor I'm in disagreement with, StAnselm, refused to participate on the grounds that the dispute was over conduct rather than content. And no moderators volunteered to take the case. The moderator who closed the case suggested I could take it here. Likewise, the advice we got from the NPOV noticeboard was ignored. Since the content-oriented approaches failed, I came here. WP:DR didn't get us anywhere before. Should I just try again? Or are there other options? Jonathan Tweet (talk) 17:25, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What dispute resolution forum did you try? Given the number of editors whom you say are the problem, it sounds as though it might be appropriate to request formal mediation. Have you tried that? If so, what happened? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help. This is the first time I've had to go past dispute resolution with an issue, so maybe I took a wrong turn. Mediation looks like a good bet. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And the dispute resolution that went nowhere was on the WP:DRN page. Potential moderators recused themselves because of personal attachment to the topic and previous interaction with one of the editors. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:31, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, your statement that the other editors say not to make major changes without consensus, and then your claim that the other editors "withhold consensus" from changes they don't like, seems to be a description of how the consensus process is supposed to work. Are you saying that you should be allowed to decide what is consensus? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for asking me to clarify. You're right about consensus. I'm saying that since policies and RSs aren't used as our touchstones, consensus is being withheld based on personal preference. If we could look at RSs together and work to make the page represent them better, we could reach consensus. Withholding consensus because of one's personal beliefs is against WP policy, I think. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As I was pinged, a short comment. Jonathan, I often agree with you on content matters and you're very knowledgeable, but maybe it's time to drop the stick. As you say, you haven't been able to gain a consensus on the talk page (in my view you were correct some times and wrong some times) but I fear your unwillingness to accept that is becoming a problem (see WP:HEAR). As you also say, you've tried several different boards here on WP. Discussions going in circles for months, several boards implied, and no change in consensus. As Robert McClenon says, that's how consensuses work. I'm afraid that the only thing you'll accomplish by this campaign that approaches a year is to earn yourself a topic ban if an admin decides to imply failure to WP:HEAR. That would be a shame, as you're a knowledgeable user. If nothing has changed after all the different ways you try, then maybe it's time to move on. Jeppiz (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for commenting. I agree that maybe it's time for me to move on. I had hoped for resolution in the dispute process, but no one would moderate it. I'm looking for resolution and, if I'm wrong, an answer to the question of how I'm reading policies and guidelines wrong. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:15, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Other editors have said that the way we do the Gospels is wrong. They're just not willing to make a big deal over it. So I feel as though I am representing others, not just myself. It would be a lot harder to keep going if several other editors hadn't also called for changes. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Previously when I have needed to escalate an issue on this page and others, I've used a dispute tag. The dispute tag shakes things up, gets attention on the topic, and leads to a resolution. This time around, my dispute tags are summarily deleted, so I haven't been able to resolve the dispute in the usual way. I could recast this incident as "These editors revert my dispute tags." Then it's a narrower incident, and it's about conduct. Or maybe mediation is really the way to go. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 18:35, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It would appear that your dispute tags are being reverted because there is consensus that they are not needed. If there is consensus that they are not needed, there is no conduct issue. If one editor were reverting dispute tags, that might be a conduct issue. If multiple editors are reverting them, then you are tagging against consensus. I would suggest either requesting mediation or a Request for Comments. You must understand, however, that the RFC might determine that consensus is against you. Also, if consensus is against you, the mediation might not get your changes made. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I take your point. Plenty of editors have called for changes to this section, so it doesn't look like a consensus to me. Honestly I'd rather stick to content issues. But the advice we got from the NPOV notice was ignored, and my main disputant has stated he refuses to discuss the issue in terms of content. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 19:31, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Robert McClenon, "It would appear that your dispute tags are being reverted because there is consensus that they are not needed." Now that StAnselm and Isambard Kingdom have spoken up (below), they say there's no consensus on the critical-comments issue or on the merging-sections issue. So my dispute tags were removed without consensus. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:25, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd rather discuss content, but you said before that you want to treat this as a conduct issue. I guess this means there's no need to ask if you want to take it to mediation. Would you like to proceed, since it's your idea? Jonathan Tweet (talk) 19:56, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're certainly treating it as a conduct issue yourself, with all the accusations you've made in this thread. StAnselm (talk) 20:02, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to let the ad hominem comments etc slide and just talk about the content. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:04, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has the conduct of some or all of the named editors related to this article come up before here at ANI? If so, I'd say that is probably a reasonable case for ArbCom. I, JethroBT drop me a line 21:01, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From taking a cursory look at the history of the talk page, I do not see any glaring conduct issues. In fact, I see remarkably civil discussions for an extremely sensitive topic. It seems more to me like Jonathan Tweet is upset consensus has not fallen on his side, and wishes to escalate the dispute until it does, or he wins by ArbCom fiat. I'm sure that Jonathan is completely sincere in his belief that he is right, but I see nothing actionable in what he has presented or what I can find myself. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:02, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think that I speak for ArbCom when I say that no, the less work we get the better. I don't see any reason here, besides Anselm's suggestion, that this can should be kicked that far down the road. In fact, ANI has been remarkably gospel free recently, which is usually a pretty good indication of it being trouble-free in the first place (when was the historicity of Jesus a big deal? is it still?). I'm waiting to see if the other editors who are pinged here are going to weigh in, because their comments, and of course those of others who look into the matter, can suggest a way forward. Pardon me for being crude here, but if indeed the plaintiff is the only one with a problem, then there's two quick and easy suggestions already: a. ignore them and b. topic-ban them. If, on the other hand, there is something to their complaints, we should probably hear about it from more/other editors. Drmies (talk) 03:01, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (as one of the named parties): Jonathan Tweet says that he wants to keep this about content, but there are lots of references in this post to user conduct: "ad hominem comments", "refusal to discuss", etc. Jonathan Tweet accuses me of refusing to conclude a conversation - as the time stamps indicate, Tweet made a comment on 30 December, and I replied the same day; he then made a comment on 3 January, and I replied the same day; he was then silent for 9 days and then made comments on 12 January and 23 January. It's a bit rich to call this "refusal to conclude"; the discussion had gone stale because he was away for more than a week. This has been a pattern with his editing: there may be good reasons why he has to be away from WP, but he shouldn't blame other editors for not waiting for him (which is, I think, a corollary of WP:OWN). And if I can generalise a little, Jonathan Tweet does seem to be insisting that discussions are conducted on his terms. He admits that he accepted a compromise way back in 2006, but then criticises that compromise position that he accepted. He started an RfC (see Talk:Jesus/Archive 126#RfC: Which should go first: the historical account or the canonical Gospel account?) but doesn't seem to want to accept the result (which was, in fact, closed a WP:SNOW in favour of keeping the "Gospel account" section). StAnselm (talk) 05:27, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You couldn't provide an RS that contradicts Sanders' statement that the empty tomb stories contradict each other. You couldn't provide a policy that says we need to qualify his statement. If RSs and policies are not the reason you don't want the article to say that the stories contradict each other, what's your motivation? Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I did. And yes I did. StAnselm (talk) 20:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've read this entire discussion and looked over the article. Reliable sources should be the deciding factor in any content or conduct dispute. If one party wishes the entire article to contain content that is cited to reliable sources and another wishes the article to contain content according to their religious beliefs, then clearly we as editors support the first party over the second. We're not going to take the Kim Davis approach here and insist that the beliefs of our faith should always trump Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Having said that, I see that this was made a Featured Article by nominating editor User:FutureTrillionaire just before Jonathan Tweet came along and therefore is probably already is cited to reliable sources throughout. Jonathan, have you discussed this issue with this editor? Do you think anyone, including yourself, is failing to maintain the article according to the strict standards of an FA and the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia? If so, and certainly if anyone's religious beliefs are being held to a higher standard than Wikipedia policy, then this seems like a fairly open-and-shut case. Take this to ArbCom, as User:StAnselm suggests. Prhartcom (talk) 06:45, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Some independent eyes at these articles would be a good idea. We have statements such as "Some of those who claimed to have witnessed Jesus' resurrection later died for their belief, which indicates that their beliefs were likely genuine", cited to a theologian. Anyone else see a problem with that sentence, or is it just me? Guy(Help!) 12:45, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on what you mean by 'problem'. Theologically speaking, someone who has been persecuted and martyrd for their beliefs, does indicate their beliefs had weight depending on the viewpoint of the person making the statement. Jesus died for our sins and all that. Of course thats complete rubbish for any science or evidence based article but in context and attributed correctly may be relevant on religious/theological/faith articles depending on how it is used. Can you link where that is from? Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, found it. It could be worded better but in context its meant to emphasise that the witnesses of the resurrection died for their beliefs, not that their beliefs regarding the resurrection were real - but that their faith in what they saw was real - hence 'dying for their belief'. Its not meant to comment on the fact of their belief, only the strength of their faith. Its relevant in context due to the subsequent motives ascribed to the authors of the gospels - that they may have been less than truthful. That some of them died for their beliefs (for theologians) indicates they did believe what they wrote. It could probably use a re-write but in the context in which it is used, its a relevant theological argument. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Prhartcom, " I see that this was made a Featured Article by nominating editor User:FutureTrillionaire just before Jonathan Tweet came along and therefore is probably already is cited to reliable sources throughout. Jonathan, have you discussed this issue with this editor?" Yes, I have.. If you look at the Gospels summaries, you will see that they are sourced mostly to the Gospels themselves or to sources that merely paraphrase the Gospels without critically analyzing them. Certain scholarly commentary is allowed, but most is excluded See the diffs above. Historical commentary that's cited to the best RSs gets reverted if it's too likely to whisper doubt into the ears of the naive, as Mangoe phrases it. Compare how we treat the Gospels to how any other encyclopedia on Jesus does. We're the only ones to set the Gospels off without historical commentary, context, etc. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:13, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I like how the article separates the Gospel account from the historical account. We're probably better than the other publications for doing so. I think you might want to admit that this is useful organizational structure, a view apparently approved by the FA reviewers (the approved version is here). Now, I agree with you if you are saying scholarly commentary is being prevented from being added to the historical section when it goes against another editor's faith. No editor should let their faith cloud their adherence to policy. Remind us of any diffs where that is happening and I, for one, will side with you. But read the wise words of User:Only in death above. Documenting the expression of faith is perfectly encyclopedic. Take a step back and wear the shoes of a faithful scholar and see how they fit. Your opponents should do the same and wear your shoes. Generally speaking, the role of those who maintain the article should be to keep it FA quality and in compliance with policy and guidelines, sticking to the reliable secondary and primary sources, and presenting as well-rounded an article as possible. Prhartcom (talk) 16:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Prhartcom, thanks for your offer of help on the historical section. Certain editors have tried to define that section very restrictively. Here's an example of historical information from the world's top Jesus scholar deleted from the historical section: diff. And StAnselm enforcing a narrow understanding of what historical information is allowed not he page: diff. if you're serious about helping, I would greatly appreciate it when the time comes. When the dust has settled here I would like to call in your help. I get your saying that expressions of faith are fine if they'r treated right. I've worked on every section of this page, including the Christian views section, so I am with you. You say, "I like how the article separates the Gospel account from the historical account. We're probably better than the other publications for doing so." This is the crux of my issue. Can you point me to a policy that says something like, "Follow published sources, unless the editors can agree on an original approach that they like better"? This is the problem to which I can't find a solution. How strong do editors' preferences have to be to override RSs? Typically we follow RSs, but on the Jesus page we are following the beliefs and experiences of the editors to do something better, as you approvingly point out. I couldn't find any guidance in policy on when to follow RSs and when to ignore RSs in favor of an original approach preferred by editors. If there's a policy or guideline you can point me to that explains when it's OK not to follow published sources, I would like to see it, and maybe that would answer my question and explain to me how it's OK that we don't follow RSs. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:20, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is loaded language, of course - "enforcing a narrow understanding". The point of my talk page comment (the diff of which you provided) is that the "historicity of events" subsection (which is, of course, only part of the broader "historical views" section) seems to be focusing on the "basics of Jesus' life" on which "historians have reached a limited consensus", as the lead sentence indicates. So I was questioning whether miracles really belonged in that discussion. And you know what? I never got an answer to my question. StAnselm (talk) 18:32, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have pinpointed a key difference between me and you. I try to decide what goes in the article based on RSs. You try to decide what goes in the article by looking at the article itself or other WP articles, like Moses. If the article is structured such that we aren't representing the RSs (which include stuff on miracles), then the problem is with the structure of the article, not the information from the RS. We should find a way to include the information that RSs offer their readers. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I want to thank you, Prhartcom, for saying that we diverge from the RSs. It seems obvious to me. But if you listen to the other editors, they say that we are in line with RSs, which really confuses the issue. I've been a lone voice saying we diverge from RSs, and I've taken personal criticism for making that case, so I appreciate your validating my viewpoint. We diverge from how RSs describe Jesus. I'm just happy to hear someone else say that. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:33, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Prhartcom, I appreciate your offer of help with the historical section. if the editors on the page say they have consensus to keep certain information off the page, doesn't that trump the RSs? The issues I have on this page are that consensus is trumping RSs, so getting unwelcome historical information into the history section seems like it would take more than a little help. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're being very dishonest. None of us said that our article is exactly the same as others in terms of layout but we did say that the content we cover is consistent with what RS's cover. You have failed to show otherwise. LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
LittleJerry, "You're being very dishonest." That's mean. If you think that the page aligns with WP policy in terms of content, and that the deviation in layout is fine, then please let's do formal mediation and resolve that point like civil editors. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:56, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Content comment Since we apparently discuss content at ANI, my view is that Jonathan Tweet, while a good and knowledgeable editor, is very much mistaken in presenting this as an argument between faith and sources. If that were the case, it would be easy. It's not. Contrary to what Jonathan says, I don't see the article relying on gospels nor do I see anyone suggesting it should. Mainstream academia in this field "rely" on the gospels. Not that they accept them as the truth, but as some of the earliest records. What the article should do is of course to present this mainstream research. Now, I have deliberately stopped following the talk page discussions months ago, but looking back, I get a bit of an impression that it's not really gospels vs RS, it's rather RS saying one thing vs RS saying another thing. That's fine, but it's not an issue for Ani nor for ArbCom (Drmies, correct me if I'm wrong). I really do not think it's helpful when Jonathan continues to present this dispute as a "believers vs scholars" and accusing some of those involved of preferring faith. Jonathan, you know I've supported you in several matters, including the table we both supported and unfortunately didn't gain consensus, but I really must tell you that I fear you be the problem. I see no bad conduct from anyone involved, just serious users arguing their case. I may not always agree with all of their views, but there's nothing wrong with their conduct. Wikipedia works by consensus, and neither ANI nor ArbCom nor Jimmy Wales nor anyone else is going to step in and overturn that. I've lost count of the number of RfCs and other venues taken to overturn the consensus, none of them going anywhere and probably rightly so. I encouraged you yesterday to drop the stick and I repeat it now. I do think you're right in some of your concerns but I do not think it justifies all of the endless discussions that have become very repetitive and frankly is the reason I left that article. Jeppiz (talk) 13:56, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Jeppiz, ArbCom can handle most everything but prefers to handle nothing, and not just because we're on strike pending a dispute over our lunch and dinner allowances from the Foundation; it's always best if editors handle stuff by themselves--content- and conduct-wise. I do not see any reason to think that this can't be solved here, at DR, or on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 15:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There have conduct issues involving the early history of Christianity in the past, but I don't see any allegations of conduct issues, just the filing party's statement that "consensus is being withheld", which appears to mean that consensus goes against his changes. This doesn't sound like a case has been made that there are conduct issues that the community can't deal with; I don't see much of a case of conduct issues. I will repeat my suggestion to try formal mediation. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:34, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Robert McClenon, I agree with you that mediation would be a great solution. You would do me a great favor if you could persuade StAnselm to agree to formal mediation. He doesn't want to discuss this as a content issue, but I think that could reach a resolution with mediation. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:28, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Jonathan Tweet - Has he said that he doesn't want formal mediation? If so, he can't be required to accept it. Also, be aware that formal mediation will not necessarily result in a resolution that you will like. Your initial statement at the start of this thread didn't seem to show a willingness to compromise, when you said that other editors were "withholding consensus", when the real problem is that they were the consensus. Have you tried filing a request for mediation? Robert McClenon (talk) 15:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It would largely depend on the terms of the mediation. Certainly not on the pseudo-issue of "Do we accept reliable sources or follow our own personal beliefs?". Nor on "Should the historical account go first?" (since we had an RfC on that). Nor on "Should scholarly comment go in the Canonical gospel accounts section?" (since I haven't really ever expressed an opinion on that). Nor on "Should the historical and gospel accounts be merged?" (since that really ought to have an RfC as a prior step). I am rather unclear about what Jonathan Tweet wants mediation about, actually. StAnselm (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for sticking with this, StAnselm. In mediation, I would like to address the issue of whether the page faithfully represents RSs, as directed by policy. You think it does? If so, let's get a mediator. But I see by your response that there are two open issues on the page, which you helpfully name: whether to include critical commentary in the Gospels section and whether to merge the sections. It would seem that there's no consensus to keep the sections separate or to exclude critical commentary. Both are open issues and legitimate topics where you haven't reached a decision, right? This is the first time I've heard you that there's no consensus on these issues. Other editors have treated me as though there is indeed a consensus on those two open issue. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:11, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is a consensus on merging sections (if by this you mean merging the sections on historical and gospel sections). That would be a major rewrite, and I don't see the motivation for this. Thank you. Isambard Kingdom (talk) 16:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. There's no consensus. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:26, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, Jonathan Tweet, you have to gain consensus to merge them, not vice-versa. Please stop being tendentious. Hallward's Ghost (Kevin)(My talkpage) 16:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hallward's Ghost, you talk like you're disagreeing with me, but you're agreeing with me. Jonathan Tweet (talk)
  • Stop. You don't get a supervote where your 1 (politely) bickering voice is able to to change the status quo at the page. You want to force a mediation for an issue that isn't an issue, except in your mind. Hallward's Ghost (Kevin) (My talkpage) 21:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Both are open issues and legitimate topics where you haven't reached a decision, right?" Wrong. I don't see how you could possibly conclude that from my comments. But yes, as noted above - we have slippery language with this phrase "no consensus" - certainly in the case of merging sections, there was no consensus to do so, and the issue was decided and you should drop it. I would say that probably applies to just about every other point you have raised. StAnselm (talk) 18:33, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Anselm, earlier you seemed to be implying that we could do mediation if we could find the right topic. Is that right? Should we try to find a topic to discuss in mediation? Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, that would be the tail wagging the dog. StAnselm (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tweet is essentially using our policies on sourcing to try to dictate the layout and sequence of a short encyclopedia article. This is very dubious, and I'm not aware of other cases where this has been accepted as a principle in a dispute. Since there are virtually no primary sources for Jesus' life other than the Gospels, all accounts of the subject either assume knowledge of these (which we should clearly not do) or include an account summarizing the Gospels. For much of the time in this endless discussion Tweet's proposal has been to move the biographical account below the "Historical views" section. As they are written, this makes no sense at all - it might be possible to rewite the article so it was possible, but Tweet is not interested in doing this before swopping over, as he says somewhere in there. He has a proposal he believes is right, and is impervious to all other points of view. I don't think this is appropriate for an arb case, but I know who would be at risk if it had one. Johnbod (talk) 16:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Earlier in regards to whether you wanted to accept mediation, you said, "It would largely depend on the terms of the mediation." Does that mean you would agree to mediation if the terms were right? You don't support adding critical commentary to the Gospels section, and I do. That would be a nice, clear difference for us to come to agreement on. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 15:40, 12 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]

A key point of dispute has been consensus. What is the consensus? How do we know when consensus is achieved? How much authority does consensus give editors to diverge from the RSs? In light of these issues, can someone here help me understand how this line from WP:CONSENSUS relates to this page: "Consensus is ascertained by the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy." It seems as though consensus has been determined by numbers, and I wouldn't even know how to apply this line from WP:CONSENSUS. Jonathan Tweet (talk) 16:14, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Other editors probably know more about this than I do, but I don't think that because some sources present information in a certain order that a wikiarticle also needs to present it in the same order. So a gospel section in the Jesus article might come either before or after an historical section. To change the order, however, would require lots of editing and might entail prolonged discussion. For now, Jonathan, do you think you have consensus to make a major change to the article? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 16:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Brand new user harassing me at my talk page

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I've asked AncientHealth 612 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to stop posting to my talk page twice now, but they insist upon continuing to do so. This user insists upon trying to turn a discussion at Talk:Paleolithic diet into a discussion about my personal health[215] [216] [217] [218], which is more than a little creepy and completely unwelcome. This same user is also currently edit warring at the article page, see [219] [220] [221] [222] [223] Can an admin please help me put a stop to this with a ban, or at least a firm warning?MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 22:25, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My friend,

I have insisted on nothing. I have said it is fine if you don't wish to discuss your personal matters, though I would like to if you do not mind. We may even leave the page as you like it. I only ask what you mean by a phrase. Why must you use dishonesty when discussing me with others? AncientHealth 612 (talk) 22:30, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

AncientHealth 612's account isn't even an hour old and I think we need to cut newbies some slack. AncientHealth 612, will you abide by MjolnirPants's request that you stop posting messages on their talk page? If you can refrain from doing so, I think this complaint can be closed. LizRead! Talk! 22:53, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're right, I shouldn't bite the newbie. It's just the creepiness factor (combined with edit warring) was very jarring. AncientHealth 612, if you stay off my talk page and participate in the discussion at Talk:Paleolithic diet instead of edit warring, I'll be happy. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 23:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And astonishingly, AncientHealth 612 turns out to have signed up in order to promote the bullshit that is the paleo diet: [224]. Nobody foresaw that, did they? I am guessing this is one of the anons who has been making fuss, since it is implausible that a genuinely new user would have made a talk page post to someone else as their second edit, ever. Guy(Help!) 17:00, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I take issue with the second part of your last sentence. Many established Wikipedia editors seem to use templated warnings. The response to AncientHealth's first edit was that they received such a templated warning. The warning ended "If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page" with a link to the talk page. That talk page is exactly where AncientHealth's second edit was posted. So probably sometimes, even if not in this case, genuinely new users do make talk page posts to other people as their second edit ever. MPS1992 (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@MPS1992:Oh, I forgot to include these diffs of the IP who started posting the creepily personal questions on my talk page: [225][226]. If you look at this diff you can see that he's admitting to being that IP. So he didn't get templated for his first edit, he got templated for making a POV heavy edit to an article as his (at least) third edit, after making at least two creepy and POVish edits to my talk page and creating an account in order to push that POV (by the implication of his own words). Also, it's a welcome template, not a warning template. The warnings came after he started edit warring, and his talk page shows that he managed to rack up two of them, from perfect strangers in the span of 10 minutes. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 22:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for these additional details. I forgive your forgetfulness. Your words suggest that you acknowledge that you were wrong when you said, "it is implausible that a genuinely new user would have made a talk page post to someone else as their second edit, ever". I think it is important to recognise these realities. Even you were a new user once, I would bargain. As for templates, many look like a warning even when they are phrased like a welcome. MPS1992 (talk) 23:34, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your words suggest that you acknowledge that you were wrong when you said, "it is implausible that a genuinely new user would have made a talk page post to someone else as their second edit, ever". I never said that. Furthermore, nothing in my above post suggests that I disagree with it. I'm honestly not sure where you got that notion. All I did was refute your assertion that the user was hit with a template warning for their first edit. I'd also like to completely disagree with your assertion that the welcome template looks like a warning. Have you ever seen it? It looks like a welcome. It opens with "Welcome to Wikipedia!" and ends with "Again, welcome!" It thanks the user for their contributions, and expresses hope that they'll stick around. I've been in brothels that don't greet people that warmly. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 02:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies, I see it was actually Guy who said that. But I still can't imagine why you would agree with it. As for the template, it ends with an invitation to post on your talk page, which is exactly what the account did with its "second edit". MPS1992 (talk) 08:49, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with it because it's obviously true. This user has only posted about one single subject, their user name reflects a strong bias towards that subject, and they straight up said they created the account to talk about that subject. I can't imagine how you could not agree with it. It's blatantly obvious.
As for the message, one would think a reasonable person could figure out that a highly formatted message full of links to WP pages and advice on getting started posted to their talk page might be a pre-formatted message. Especially when the edit summary contains an unexplained parenthetical at the end. Certainly when it contains a message which flatly contradicts a message you'd been delivered twice, in no uncertain terms. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:57, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is only obviously true if it is re-phrased thus: it is implausible that this is a genuinely new user making a talk page post to someone else as their second edit, ever.. Without that re-phrasing, it means that it is impossible for any genuinely new user to make a talk page post to someone else as their second edit, ever. I still do not understand why you, Guy, or anyone else believes that to be impossible.
I do not understand the relevance of what you say in your second paragraph, sorry. MPS1992 (talk) 18:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Impossible is not the same thing as implausible. That (like much else I've explained here) should be obvious.

Regarding my second sentence, the relevance should be extremely obvious: The fact that it's obviously a template message means I didn't actually invite him to post to my talk page. It was just part of the welcome template. Again, this should be obvious.

Nevertheless, the user seems to have stopped posting to my talk page, and is no longer edit warring on the article. That's all I wanted, so I'm happy to close this out. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 22:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some of what is obvious to you is not obvious to others. When you post on a user's talk page inviting them to post on your talk page, it is indefensible to then say "I didn't actually invite him to post to my talk page" as you just did. Your using a semi-automated tool and a template does not change your still being responsible for the content of your edit. I do hope that you will keep that in mind. Thank you for your replies. MPS1992 (talk) 23:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note to an admin This can be close out. The user seems to have implicitly agreed to stop the behavior that prompted this, so there's no point in any further discussion. I'm also un-watching this page, so if my attention is needed, please ping me. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 14:53, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Things boiling over on Talk:Rare

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Thhings are getting seriously heated on Talk:Rare, the subject of a move request. Long, bitter argument raging, involving both regular users and admins. Would be useful to have a neutral third party or two survey the damage. Grutness...wha? 22:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've hatted most of the off topic mess. Also, I believe that the general consensus is for the move, but I would prefer it if someone else dug through the whole discussion. I might take a deeper look at it later, but for now, I don't have the time or focus. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 01:33, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers - it is a lot to wade through! Grutness...wha? 05:22, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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objections verging into legal territory at Talk:List of organizations opposing mainstream science

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A user has been raising objections to content about the Natural Philosophy Alliance at List of organizations opposing mainstream science. A couple other editors have been engaging him/her and, it seems, making progress, but the most recent comment makes me think it could use some additional eyes. The most relevant quote is "The many points I have made all point not only to extreme lack of neutrality, but are clearly cases of libel and defamation of character which can be easily confirmed by checking with your legal counsel." It's the latter part that's the more unusual/disconcerting, of course. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Rhododendrites - The edit you provided (while it uses words like "libel", "defamation of character", etc. and references "checking with your legal counsel") does not constitute a legal threat to me. He's simply stating his opinion and referencing us (Wikipedia) checking with our legal counsel to confirm his opinion - that's not a legal threat. If he does make an implication or statement that constitutes a legal threat, please report it here with a diff of the edit. You also did not notify the "user" (who is HarvPhys) about this ANI discussion, which is something you are required to do when opening an ANI discussion involving another user. I've gone ahead and done this for you. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:51, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Oshwah: Yes, I know. I didn't say there was a legal threat. I said it could use some additional eyes and that it's verging into legal territory. This isn't a thread to report a particular user; it's a request for administrator attention to an apparently ongoing incident on an article talk page. If I were here reporting a user, I would've left a message for him/her and, of course, mentioned that user by name in this thread. As that's not the case, I don't think it was necessary to post a notice to the talk page of an already upset user, pointing them to this page as though they're being reported for doing something against the rules. I frankly don't know to what extent their concerns have merit, but emphasizing the defamatory nature of content on Wikipedia by suggesting we could "[check] with [our] legal counsel", while not a threat, is definitely a sign that the situation could use uninvolved administrator attention, I think. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 21:10, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rhododendrites - That's totally fine. I was only intending to point out that the edit you provided in itself wasn't a legal threat. I didn't intend to "send you to the door" - I see that my initial response could have implied that (and for that, I apologize, Rhododendrites). I completely understand that, by looking at his previous edits in the discussion, you feel like a few uninvolved pairs of eyes should take a look at the discussion. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:36, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
He may not have crossed the line, but he's teetering near it. Ad if the guy actually works for the organization in question, COI comes into it also, and makes it closer to being a legal threat. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:21, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I was one of the editors discussing with the editor and removed some content on the page based on their comments. They made some fair points and I agreed that there were some non-neutral/unsourced/non-NPOV content about their organization (they seemed to identify as a few individuals from the organization in question). However I also thought the most recent comment sounded borderline like a legal threat, especially when coupled with previous somewhat aggressive comments on the talk page, and posted a warning to the user's talk page. Also thought an admin should take a look. FuriouslySerene (talk) 21:20, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seems fair enough to me. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:38, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have one concern about that article which arguably belongs on the talk page of the article but I’ll mention it here because it involves a policy interpretation and readers here are more likely to be familiar with the nuances of the policy. List articles generally include items that already have their own article. Our guidance on this (WP:LISTCOMPANY) stops short of suggesting that an organization without an article should not be in the list, but I don’t think the existence of a list article should be used as an excuse for a mini article on an organization. This applies not just to natural philosophy alliance but three other entries in that list. If the organization is notable someone should write an article about it. If it isn’t notable and doesn’t deserve an article then perhaps it could be included in this list but the description should be exceedingly short, a few neutral words with a source. My view is these three entries should ideally be removed, but if they are included the description should be more neutral. Phrases such as “ragtag but mysteriously well-funded” is not neutral, and may be acceptable in a complete article about a group when accompanied by a more comprehensive discussion, but does not belong in the short phrase identifying the organization.

Is my thinking off-base on this point?--S Philbrick(Talk) 21:30, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sphilbrick - Maybe here it is, but I do agree with what you're saying - the guideline you pointed out (WP:LISTCOMPANY) states that, "If the company or organization does not have an existing article in Wikipedia, a citation to an independent, reliable source should be provided to establish its membership in the list's group", and says nothing more. I don't think that having a summary description of each company in the list is necessary at all. If it has an article, then it should be linked (of course). If it doesn't and it's still notable and should be included, then just add a reference like the guideline says; someone can always create an article about it later. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I followed up on the article talk page.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:24, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Reporting death threat

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This edit [227] by User:River45 appears to constitute a death threat. I'm not sure of the proper protocol in cases like this, but thought it should be brought to the community's attention. Champaign Supernova (talk) 16:34, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reporting here is fine, but just so you know there are instructions for what to do in these situations at WP:EMERGENCY. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:47, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Now blocked. Drmies (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Permaban required for repeat offender

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65.255.82.215 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has made multiple vandalism edits going as far back as 2010 at least; many of those edits have received warnings and/or notices. This user should be permanently banned. I just learned this is from a Education IP Address... so do as you will. Leitmotiv (talk) 19:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the revert on the archive. I think I must have put in the wrong IP originally? You may want to revert your original block, reevaluate the IP user again, and yadda yadda. Sorry about that. Leitmotiv (talk) 19:35, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure where you got the idea that we "permaban" IPs for occasional vandalism. School IPs with long abuse histories may be blocked for up to years at a time, though. Since that IPs last block (duration: November 2014 - August 2015), there have been five edits from it; four of them minor instances of vandalism, one of them a good-faith wording change. In the future, please use WP:AIV for reporting simple vandalism that persists after a final warning has been given. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Permaban required for repeat offender

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

65.255.82.215 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has made multiple vandalism edits going as far back as 2010 at least; many of those edits have received warnings and/or notices. This user should be permanently banned. I just learned this is from a Education IP Address... so do as you will. Leitmotiv (talk) 19:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the revert on the archive. I think I must have put in the wrong IP originally? You may want to revert your original block, reevaluate the IP user again, and yadda yadda. Sorry about that. Leitmotiv (talk) 19:35, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure where you got the idea that we "permaban" IPs for occasional vandalism. School IPs with long abuse histories may be blocked for up to years at a time, though. Since that IPs last block (duration: November 2014 - August 2015), there have been five edits from it; four of them minor instances of vandalism, one of them a good-faith wording change. In the future, please use WP:AIV for reporting simple vandalism that persists after a final warning has been given. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Schmidt-austin

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Schmidt-austin (talk · contribs) has been persistently recreating categories after they have been deleted by discussion. Each time he changes the title just slightly in attempt to avoid speedy deletion. Some of these categories include: Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe characters, Avengers (Marvel Cinematic Universe), Category:Characters that appear in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Category:DC Extended Universe characters, Category:X-Men film characters, Category:X-Men franchise characters, and just recently Category:Characters that appear in the X-Men franchise. He has been warned here and here.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 20:27, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This edits by S-a bear all of the hallmarks of the blocked editor CensoredScribe (talk·contribs) and this persons edits started a couple months after the last CS sock was blocked. For further info see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CensoredScribe/Archive. MarnetteDTalk 20:40, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I only see 4 talk page comments, on any talk page ever, that were posted on his user talk page on July 4, 2015. So, I don't think we can expect his participation in this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 21:23, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This user keeps repeatedly re-creating categories that have been deleted under slightly different names, and flagrantly ingores past consensus. If they had any real history of responding on talk pages, I might think they were actively engaging in good faith. 65.126.152.254 (talk) 22:57, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seems somewhat WP:DUCK-ish to me, and more than one other user thinks so, so I've blocked accordingly. Ian.thomson (talk) 04:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Block of recently blocked IP user should be extended

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The last time this IP was blocked was in 2014 and it was for one month. Moreover, the IP had not edited at all since then until this month. If I had been the blocking admin, I would have taken this more or less as a blank slate, and so even if I had known it was a school, I would have thought 1 week quite sufficient in the circumstances. Remember blocks are preventive not punitive - hopeful the one little vandal will forget about WP during the coming week. BethNaught (talk) 23:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Edit warring by IP

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IP 121.74.97.35 has been edit warring at History of the Jews in New Zealand during the past hour and refuses to discuss on the Talk page. Please block this IP or at least topic block. It has been pointed out to him/her that the census information he's edit warring over is based on a wrong interpretation of the census category. Akld guy (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I want to upgrade this to a complete block, since I now see that he/she has also disruptively edited figures in the table at Jewish population by country. Akld guy (talk) 03:47, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
IPs can't be indeffed. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 05:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Issue with incivility and WP:NOTHERE

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While vandal patrolling, I ran into some edits made to Budbrooke Barracks by D.R Neal G (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki), which I agreed had issues. The user in question has demonstrated consistent and persistent incivility towards others ([228] [229] [230] wat?), and is still making edits to the article ([231] [232]) despite my attempts to assist the user in a professional manner (see here and here). His/her talk page is flooded with multiple edit warring and final warnings, and nothing has changed or improved. It sucks to throw in the towel, but I see a block as the only option moving forward. This user looks to be WP:NOTHERE. Can I have assistance? ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 05:24, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Information: Involved users have been notified ([233] [234]) on their talk pages. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 05:27, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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92Slim

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User Continues to violate WP:NPA. Can an admin admonish him that get the fuck off is not appropriate? does it again here. He removed the ANI notice from his TP to make it look as if he was not warned, I thought the template was not working and informed him manually, went to history and saw that he had removed the notice) Yes it "His" Talkpage but I am sure civility should be observed on TP as well. FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 12:51, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Editors are allowed to remove warning messages, including ANI notices, from their talk pages. And "gtfo" in an edit summary is not the same as "get the fuck off" in an edit. No, it is not civil but I don't believe it necessitates sanctions. Liz Read! Talk! 13:17, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ymblanter had already blocked 92slim for 24 hours and they were discussing on the talk page at the time that you posted the first ANI notice. What you have listed above in the complaint seems to be about what happened afterwards. What was the original complaint about? ...or was that already covered by Ymblanter's block? Receiving a warning for something that you are already blocked for might be irritating.
Berean Hunter(talk) 14:45, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, I see the first gtfo was in response to a warning that was removed. This thread can probably be closed now.
Berean Hunter(talk) 14:52, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Disruptive editor Sideshow Bob

So... I've had some interactions with Sideshow Bob (talk · contribs · count) on Montenegro and Serbia-related articles. The user is an outspoken anti-Serb. Disruptive editing. The cup just boiled over when he said "aren't you a stubborn little fascist..." while altering referenced text for the 2nd time. I have maintained good faith although I didn't need to. For other recent problems, see:

So... What to do?--Zoupan 11:11, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Admins might also want to take notice of the reporting user stalking me for quite a while now, and undermining any efforts of bringing NPOV to a host of political and historical articles related to Montenegro. This user's entire purpose on Wikipedia seems to be POV-pushing in order to promote the ideology of Serb pseudo-nationalism (hence the fascism accusation which, albeit true, I admit has been unwarranted; "ethnic mix" was just a (historically undisputed) provocation which served its purpose of provoking this user's inner discriminator).
  • Admins might also want to take notice of the reporting user's continuing policy of article ownership, especially regarding historical articles.
  • Admins might also want to take notice of the reporting user's continuing policy of using dubious and unreliable sources, mostly by Serbian authors prone to nationalist POV, and using sources selectively.
  • Admins might also want to take notice of the reporting user's continuing personal attacks directed towards me, accusing me of anti-Serbianism (whatever the hell that might be), just for opposing his arbitrary edits on a number of articles.
I understand that the reporting user has an obsession with me for some reason (most probably because I'm one of few editors trying to dismantle his nationalist mini-utopia by bringing NPOV to terribly biased articles he had worked on for years), but enough is enough, and this harassment needs to be stopped.
Cheers! Sideshow Bob 12:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of too longing, give concrete examples. Fascism is only one of the provocative and disparaging terms you use in your wide arrange of insults directed at me and other users who point at your disruptive behaviour. It is your tactic trying to deflect the matter. Most, if not all, replies from your side are uncivil. You have never entered a constructive discussion. Admins might, and I believe will see through you.--Zoupan 03:52, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have neither time or energy to go through the evidence of your obsession with me. I'm sure you would like me, and all people who don't share your skewed worldview, to be excluded from editing so you can go on and build your alternate universe where truth is a relative category, but I will not give you the pleasure of entertaining your ludicrous accusations. I will not reply to you anymore, and I would like to ask you to stop contacting me already, since I have told you a number of times that I do not want to communicate with you, and you have passed the limits of civility and normal behaviour quite a while ago. Sideshow Bob 07:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

SPAs editing Singapore politics related articles - need 3rd party opinons and closer look

There has been single purpose accounts showing up and trying to edit articles relating to Singapore hot-button issues, removing sources and paragraphs that are critical of the government [235] [236] [237]. They have a tendency to rely strongly on primary sources. There is a possibility that these articles are being edited to try and fit the government's narrative, especially when school textbooks on these subjects are being criticised online. [238] I need uninvolved editors to have a look at Population White Paper, 2013 Little India Riots, Immigration to Singapore amongst others, to ensure that they conform to existing policy (NPOV/RS/V). I have been reverted immediately [239], and while I have suspicions on what these SPAs might be up to I am not going to run CU and would rather let someone else uninvolved to investigate this matter, and more pairs of eyes to decide by consensus how these articles should be. Thanks. - Mailer Diablo 10:17, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks to editors who have taken time out to look at the articles. However, this matter is still ongoing. Apparently Logicpls (talk · contribs) is still trying to insert language to the tune of "setting the record straight" using primary sources on Population White Paper, repeating the same behaviour as before and he/she appears to have broken 3RR. Could editors please continue to monitor/watch list this article, and more uninvolved editors to have a look at this please. Thanks again. - Mailer Diablo 15:54, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From a cursory look, Logicpls (talk · contribs) could do with a ban, and Population White Paper could do with a blanket revert back to the Sept 6 2015 version.142.105.159.60 (talk) 16:38, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is Logicpls. Not sure if I'm doing this right since I'm new to Wikipedia editing, but if there are uninvolved editors here, that's great. The original page was written in partisan language, misrepresented the topic, and drew heavily on unreliable sources such as opposition politicians' dishonest claims. All this is easily verifiable. My edits are properly cited. Using primary sources is correct in this case when summarizing the statements of these sources; the original article drew on misinterpretations of these sources (again, easily verified by referring to the primary sources) and cherry picked articles to support a political statement. Your help will be greatly appreciated!
Firstly you should not be relying on primary sources alone, refer to WP:WPNOTRS. The PWP itself is a primary source. Secondly, the statement "There is widespread misunderstanding by elements of the Singapore public...6.9 million population growth target has been set,[7] which is incorrect.[6]" violates WP:NPOV by asserting and pre-empting that a certain statement is wrong, and reads like Original Research to any reasonable person. Please look for more high-quality and reliable secondary sources to ensure the article remains NPOV. - Mailer Diablo 16:57, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • So if you are summarizing a source, you should rely on other sources? Those other sources constitute opinions on the original matter and should not be applied to the summary. They can be tacked on in a separate paragraph. Next, the verity of the statement you are challenging is not in doubt. It is not an assumption. Just read the primary source. The current situation is this: (1) The Sg government released a statement. (2) The statement was misinterpreted by various people. This can be easily verified by comparing the primary sources against the interpretations. (3) You seem to now be saying that the misinterpretations are correct and should be retained simply because they are not the primary source. This makes absolutely no sense, so it cannot be what you mean. What do you mean then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Logicpls (talkcontribs) 17:20, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, as a user who doesn't know or care the tiniest bit about Singapore population politics, I thought I'd take a look at this. My first reaction is that final Sept. 6 2015 version [240] by Mailer Diablo has some room for improvement from an NPOV standpoint. Putting in an opposition point explicitly, then saying that Government ministers "denied this", is wrong on a couple of levels. First of all "deny" generally runs afoul of WP:SAY. Secondly, and more importantly, I have to believe that a little looking could show what positive statements the Government was making. Whatever that is, the article should say it. Looking at the article as a whole, there is a remarkable lack of what the Government said about what it was doing. I'll take a look at some of the later revisions next.CometEncke (talk) 17:47, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(Replying to both) One way is to expand the government minister's response in greater detail, as reported by secondary news sources. I believe they are very readily available, and should not take too much trouble to find. Writing that "Mr Y said about X" and "Mr Z said that what Mr Y or Organisation W said about X is wrong" is generally fine (because you are not adding anything original, you are reporting a position held by someone), but to simply assert in an article that X is wrong or mistaken based on your personal deduction from a primary source generally violates WP:NPOV and WP:V. The latter is what has been showing up in articles relating to Singapore issues and this is particularly troubling. - Mailer Diablo 17:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Next, I took a look at the version LogicPls appeared to favor.[241] That version also has NPOV problems which I will explain in a moment. On the whole, they are larger than the problems with the first version, but I would *not* necessarily assume this means that Logicpls is editing in bad faith. He may simply be unaware of the relevant policies. Logicpls, just as "deny" is an NPOV problem, so is "misinformation". In particular, you can't go saying that "such and such was misinformation", especially not without citing a source. I'll use the existence, or not, of life near the star Orion as an example of how you should do it. You should say something like "Government minister X says there is life on Orion." You should give a source and state the reason the minister gives for believing that. Then you can say "Professor Y says there is no life on Orion." You should then give a source and state the reasons the Professor has for believing that. That's what NPOV presentation looks like. So far, my suggestion to both of you is to take a deep breath, review the relevant policies, then set yourselves to writing an article that is truly NPOV. It can be done, and having people who come from different perspectives can help the process along. Logic, you need to realize there are some rules on Wikipedia about how to present things in an even-handed way. If you want to continue contributing, it will help you a lot to learn what those rules are and to follow them. Diablo, in some ways you have more responsibility here, as the user who knows more about WP. You should try to help Logicpls learn, remember that civility is not just skin deep, remember that you, too, can make NPOV mistakes, and above all, remember WP:DONTBITE. If, after explanation and pointers, Logicpls does not show any signs of learning, that could be another matter. CometEncke (talk) 18:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Comet. Thanks for your third opinion. I am facing constrains due to travel; precisely why I have posted here to invite uninvolved editors who has the extra time to take a look and provide advice. I understand the article isn't perfect (either way), hence my decision to post here calling for more eyeballs so that the article can be improved. I have also encouraged on user talk pages that discussion take place on the article's talk page, and that appears to be happening now. - Mailer Diablo 18:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:FL or Atlanta

This is the second time I've been here about this guy. The last time resulted in a firmly worded warning, which he took to mean that the admin didn't know what he was talking about. Since then, the same admin advised me to come here (advice I initially took as him saying he didn't feel admin attention was necessary, but which he later corrected me on), then warned FLoA about his attitude. I didn't want to come back here, but after my latest exchange with FLoA, I'm at my wit's end. He seems so removed from reality, and is so condescending in his tone that I have trouble believing he's not trolling. The core issue is that he's been editing tendentiously to push the unsupported view that an Argument from authority is always a fallacy, and engaging with me and others with absolutely no respect for honesty whatsoever. Below are diffs (and some points) illustrating the problem.

Content issues

Honesty issues

  • Drastically mischaracterizing the content dispute in an RfM in which he mentioned none of the other editors. You can see at the current version of the page that Original Position also pointed out the problem with the wording used (once the Mediation chair invited him to participate, as FLoA didn't bother doing so).
  • Claiming that 'progress is being made' when the only edits to the article they'd made were either reverts of my edits, or edits which pushed the article further into falsehood.
  • Questioning the admin's competence.
  • This diff represents a number of problems. In it, he repeats a false claim that the page is currently on "my" version, due to the fact that he had reverted himself once. However, he made several edits to the page since, and reverted an edit I made that brought it closer to the version he considers mine. (I had previously pointed out that if he reverts to the version he considers mine, then keeps editing, that it is no longer "my" version, but to no avail) Also note that it is not, in fact my version, but that the Editor Original Position was primarily responsible for the differences between "my" version and the older, factually inaccurate version. He also repeats an earlier assertion that the admin "...said my behavior's alright." in the very section of his talk page which the admin created to warn him about his attitude (a warning to which he replied, so I know he got it).
  • It has been pointed out to him many times the irony of him quoting "experts" to support his case that appealing to authority is always a fallacy. He said once that he was aware of the irony, but has since refused to even attempt to justify it. What's worse is that he appeals to illegitimate authorities exclusively. Whether he is right or wrong (and he is wrong, indisputably so) about the nature of the argument, he's still knowingly engaged in a fallacious, dishonest method of advancing his case.

This is just a sampling of diffs. There are many more to illustrate the problem, but including them all would get unwieldy. If any admin doubts my interpretation of any of those diffs (or just doesn't see what I'm referring to), I will happily provide more diffs and quotes to illustrate my case.

I've been trying to be patient with him. I started by discussing the issue on the talk page, and when that failed, I initially tried for mediation. After an extremely fishy (I can provide diffs to illustrate why, but don't think I need to get into it now) opening of the mediation case, I declined to continue further and came here. Since then, the problem seemed to have been resolved (with some admin attention wrt another user who supported FLoA's interpretation), until FLoA returned the other day to begin making sweeping changes to the article and reverting any attempt on my part to edit it. Even then, I elected to follow through on an RfM he filed in lieu of returning here. I had every intention of doing that until I logged on tonight, and saw the latest round. To say that there has been no indication that he intends to comport himself reasonably, honestly, and with respect to WP's standards of evidence would be a massive understatement. I've just reached a point where I can't bring myself to humor him any more. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 03:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Won't the source and content issues be resolved in our mediation? There's lots of stuff I could point to, and lots of stuff I could and have said about your view of my actions and how you describe them, but I think the main issue is just frustration about the long-running impasse we've reached as far as the article's content goes. I know hammering out a good version of the article's been slow and tough, but we're almost there! The page and our understanding of each other's positions is getting much better than it was at the beginning and a bit of mediation's all we need to get it fully sorted. FL or Atlanta (talk) 05:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(Also, what exactly do you mean by "latest round"? The last edit I made to the article in question was days ago, you've edited it since then...No one's making substantial edits until mediation's done, and that'll just be someone adding the consensus version at last!) FL or Atlanta (talk) 05:32, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Robert McClenon: You have mischaracterized and over simplified the events surrounding the closure of the previous mediation case. You never mentioned that the mediation case had been accepted, before you appeared to hat commentary of mine (while ignoring similar commentary of FLoA), and finally declaring yourself the mediator after I disputed the hatting. I am further left wondering why I had to search for your reason for taking over the case myself. That is the sort of information one thinks might be important to pass on to the participants, especially when the case has been taken over by someone who's already butted heads with one of the participants, a fact which is, itself, more than a little improper. I understand, having gone through the effort of tracking down the cause, why another mediator needed to take that case. What I do not understand is why that mediator should have been someone who'd just been in conflict with one of the participants, and why no effort to explain the situation was made. If that is the way in which you normally comport yourself as a volunteer, then be assured that I would never participate in a case with you as moderator, nor advise anyone else to do so. It was just poorly handled.
This is not the first time that the filing party has declined content resolution... Nor the second, third, nor any other ordinal number. I did not refuse to follow through with the mediation. I explicitly agreed to continue with it. That's not all, however. You stated that FloA was trying to resolve the issue through formal mediation, but left out that he had explicitly posted a refusal to proceed just yesterday. I would provide diffs of this, but naturally, the page has been blanked and its history deleted.
In fact, you have yet to offer even the slightest hint as to why our entire history of interaction has been you inserting yourself uninvited into discussions in order to align yourself firmly against whatever position I've taken. I don't know why this is, and I don't care to speculate, but it's quite apparent.
Finally, I have read the boomerang essay. It's part of the reason I didn't come back here the moment FLoA began arbitrarily reverting my and Original Position's edits to the article. It's part of the reason I explicitly told Nyttend that I didn't want to make a new filing here. I don't like posting here, and I don't want admin intervention. I've just come to a point where it's impossible to converse rationally with FLoA, and his behavior is making it impossible for me to edit the article [242][243][244][245][246]. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 14:12, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
but left out that he had explicitly posted a refusal to proceed just yesterday
What? This is 100% not true. The mediation was closed because you opened this. The timeline itself confirms this: you cannot have a discussion here and a mediation going simultaneously. This was opened after the mediation, by you. Therefore, we know that mediation would have been closed because of this. I opened both mediation attempts. I have been saying in this entire discussion that I want to mediate. Your accusation here has more holes than swiss cheese at a firing range. FL or Atlanta (talk) 23:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The filing party writes: "I don't want admin intervention." This noticeboard is a place to request admin intervention. What is the purpose of this post if not to request admin intervention? Is the filing party willing to withdraw this post and allow formal mediation? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:02, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to pay taxes, either, but I do. Because I want to stay out of jail, more. In this case, I want to improve that article more than I want to avoid getting admins involved, so I came here because I've reached the point where I strongly doubt anything short of admin intervention will get through to FLoA. If that attention consists of something as simple as an admin reiterating that he should not be editing that article, I will be happy. It may be necessary to ban or block him to enforce that, but again: I don't care about that. I care about the article.
I am willing (as I've stated multiple times now, but which you seem to keep missing) to go forward with mediation, though I have serious doubts as to whether it will work. FLoA has already contradicted himself and made blatantly false claims multiple times in his mediation request, which I remind you again; he opened in a highly dishonest way.
Don't take my willingness to engage in mediation as a willingness to engage in any mediation in which you are involved, however. I don't know why you have a problem with me, but it is clear that you do, and as a result I don't trust or respect your judgement at all. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 18:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am not a formal mediator. If there is formal mediation, it will probably be conducted by User:Sunray. However, the request for mediation is on hold (and blanked) because of your filing here. You can't pursue mediation and WP:ANI at the same time. Do you want to withdraw this filing and pursue mediation, or do you want to request admin action such as a topic-ban? You can't do both at once. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:42, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I can't help but notice that for the very first time, you've actually addressed me directly. I'm not sure what to make of that. I have some hope that a formal mediation deciding the issue might convince him to knock off this sort of behavior. It's not much, but it's some. Admin intervention however, comes with a mechanism of enforcement so that it doesn't matter whether he agrees with it or not. If I can indeed only pursue one course, then I must balance my options and when faced with the choice between a slim chance and what amounts to a sure thing... Well, that's really not a choice. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 20:38, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see that no one except the filing party, the other editor, and I have said anything. That may be partly because the original post is too long, difficult to read, and also because the filing party hasn't requested any specific admin action. The filing party says that they are willing to follow formal mediation, but the presence of this report is blocking mediation. There are several ways forward. First, the filing party can request that this report be closed to permit mediation to advance. Second, the filing party can request some specific admin action, such as a topic-ban of the reported editor, which may either be implemented or declined. Third, this report can sit here until it is archived. I don't know whether formal mediation will be able to continue if this report is archived with no action. Those are the possible ways forward that I see. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The commenting party might want to read Grammatical person and Personal pronouns and familiarize themselves with the usual norms of address in the English (and every single other) language, as the insistence upon maintaining the third person represents a facade of addressing an audience (whose existence the commenting party has questioned) and suggests that addressing the subject directly is beneath the speaker. tl:dr: Your mannerisms are arrogant and rude, and your opinions are unwanted and irrelevant. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 19:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the basic issue. There was a discussion of this situation on this page a month ago. The result of that discussion was an admin (User:Nyttend) telling FL or Atlanta and PerfectOrangeSphere to stop doing more than minor editing of the Argument from Authority page. PerfectOrangeSphere was not able to abide by this and so was given a one-day block with warnings that the blocks would get worse if he kept editing the page. Then, a week ago, FL or Atlanta did the same thing, reverting the disputed edits back to their favored version three times, before agreeing to keep the page mostly unchanged pending the result of mediation.
So, to me this issue has already been decided. An admin warned FL or Atlanta that reverting the recent edits made to the article by Mjolnirpant's and myself would result in a block. FL or Atlanta reverted those edits. Ergo, a block should have ensued.
That being said, it's been almost a week now, and the admins have decided to not block FL or Atlanta. Fine. But now we're left in limbo. Is Nyttend's warning to FL or Atlanta about editing the Argument from Authority page still active? If so, then there is no reason to go through mediation. If it isn't, then fine, let's proceed with mediation. Original Position (talk) 20:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I decided not to block FL or Atlanta because the point of the original warning was "you don't know what you're doing, so stop it or you'll get blocked", and FL or Atlanta has stopped: the problematic editing seen before, hoaxing with the sources and claiming arguments from authority to be fundamentally fallacious, has stopped as far as I've seen. Before, it was a Wikipedia:Competence is required situation at best, with these two editors misunderstanding everything quite badly; this is one of those rare exceptions to "admins don't decide content issues with admin tools", because sheer incompetence produces results that nobody familiar with the sources could ever produce, so we're free to intervene on one side's favor with admin tools, including blocking the incompetent party if needed. Now, it looks more like an ordinary content dispute, a situation with better-understanding editors disagreeing with each other, and as such, admins shouldn't intervene on one side's favor. This needs to be treated more as an editor-behavior situation, a completely different issue. Nyttend (talk) 21:38, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PS, starting with a disclaimer: this sounds odd, but bear with me. Basically, this situation is what I was trying to encourage with the warnings and the block for PerfectOrangeSphere. Before, we had a situation that looked like the Dunning-Kruger effect, with POS and FLorAT misunderstanding so badly that they produced major problems. Now, we have a situation in which FLorAT understands better and is trying to engage the sources. The point of the warnings and block was that you need to inform yourself about the basics of a concept before overhauling its article, learning what the sources are talking about so that you don't unintentionally produce a huge mess, and as far as I can tell, FLorAT has made progress in understanding the sources. Maybe sanctions are needed, but if so, that's probably on the behavioral grounds; if it's again a situation of him making a mess because he doesn't understand the sources, you'll need an admin more familiar than I am with formal logic. Nyttend (talk) 21:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I find this confusing. You can look at the history page for the Argument for Authority and see that on January 31 FL or Atlanta three times edited the page to reintroduce back into the article both of the problematic content issues you specifically bring up here, i.e. the claim that arguments from authority are fundamentally fallacious and the english archers video as a source. Not only that, FL or Atlanta also introduced additional false claims because of a misunderstanding of one of the basic concepts in the academic literature relating to this topic (i.e. the difference between presumption and assumption).
I'm not asking for a block--it's too late for that in my opinion. I just want guidance going forward on whether in editing the page we can refer back to your earlier admonition to FL or Atlanta or whether we need to go to mediation to resolve our disagreements. More specifically, I took your warning to be that they should not make substantive edits to the Argument from Authority page because of a lack of understanding of the subject matter. Is that still the case? Original Position (talk) 23:28, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's hardly a "misunderstanding of one of the basic concepts". The definition being used is a legal definition that's being adopted by one of the cited sources, like we discussed. You yourself agree its unclear enough that more explanation is needed with a blue link - and note that the page it redirects to, "presumption", is about legal matters. When you use technical legal terms outside of a legal context, misunderstandings are bound to happen. FL or Atlanta (talk) 04:30, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, it's a basic concept in the academic literature. Walton calls his own and Gensler's interpretation the "presumptive theory" of the argument from authority. It's fine if you aren't familiar with the academic literature, except that you keep resisting the edits of those of us who are. Original Position (talk) 16:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Only one source the page cites speaks this way. If this truly is a basic, well-known aspect of the literature, why does almost no one else use this terminology? FL or Atlanta (talk) 18:43, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let me spell this out for you: You are asserting that "presume" and "assume" mean the exact same thing in philosophy because common dictionaries give them the same definition (even though there is a wealth of information out there on the difference between the two even in common usage). OP is asserting that this reliable source (Walton) who is an expert on this subject is correct when he states that philosophers draw a distinction between the two. That means you're arguing your own opinion against the statement of a reliable source. If you want to prove OP wrong, find an RS on the topic of philosophy that states the two words mean the same thing. If you can't do that, you can't win.

I might want to point out to Nyttend the purpose of this argument is to gain traction for the (false) claim that there is a controversy among philosophers over whether arguments from authority are always fallacious, as FLoA continues to assert[247]. He's changed tactics, yes, but he's still pushing the same blatantly wrong interpretation[248]. He's still misusing sources by claiming they support statements they do not, and by re-inserting unverifiable sources[249]. He's still stating as fact things which he knows to be false[250]. I understand that from what I'd shown you on your talk page this wasn't evident (which is my fault), but it's well documented here.

I really think a topic ban is the best way to go. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 19:51, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are asserting that "presume" and "assume" mean the exact same thing in philosophy
See the discussion above for this. This is one single source using the term in a specific, unusual manner.
(even though there is a wealth of information out there on the difference between the two even in common usage)
So using a dictionary for the meaning of a word is such profound ignorance that it merits a full topic ban, but it's alright to cite bare Google searches?
the purpose of this argument is to gain traction for the (false) claim that there is a controversy among philosophers over whether arguments from authority are always fallacious
I've already said, repeatedly, that in the interest of consensus that is not what I'm advocating for the page. I made that clear in what mediation we had going, before you declined to pursue it in favor of this.
he's still pushing the same blatantly wrong interpretation
I give quite a few sources and an analysis of what they say there. Aren't disagreements about sources like this exactly the sort of thing mediation is meant to resolve?
misusing sources by claiming they support statements they do not
Again, aren't disagreements about sources a matter for mediation?
He's still stating as fact things which he knows to be false
What would that be? To my knowledge everything said there is true.
This is ridiculous and a complete waste of time. Can't we keep it to the content, get a mediation going, and hammer out a consensus version? Everyone's vision for the article really isn't so far apart. I'd say give it a week or two and we can have a strong, marvelous article that will stand for years to come! FL or Atlanta (talk) 21:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You've convinced me: apparently I didn't check those diffs before. I am now supporting a topic ban. Nyttend (talk) 21:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What in the diffs do you find so objectionable? And why make such a drastic decision before even hearing my take on them? Much of what he says about what's even in the diffs is inaccurate, and even my position on the issue is completely mischaracterized. I'd also like to note that they are all part of conversations on talk pages - none of them are even edits to articles. FL or Atlanta (talk) 21:40, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Nyttend - What diffs are you citing to show that User:FL or Atlanta is continuing to edit disruptively and against consensus? I see that you did have to warn them, and they say that they have gotten the message. I would prefer to see mediation, but if you can show me the continuing disruptive editing, I will agree with you that a topic-ban may be needed. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:53, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's the four diffs that immediately follow "continues to assert"; right now, they're external links #79 through #82. In the first one, FLorAT says My view is that some reliable sources say they are, others say they aren't, other say they are in various situations, etc. He fails to understand, as he did before, that these sources are addressing different contexts: if you're writing in the context of deductive arguments, you're going to say "Appeals to authority are fallacious", without qualification, because inductive arguments (in which appeals to authority are reasonable) are outside your purview. Such a statement must not be used as a basis for saying "Some sources always consider them fallacious", because those sources aren't addressing all situations. In the fourth one, FLorAT continues assuming that his interpretations are correct and criticising MjolnirPants for removing reliable sources because he doesn't like them — MjolnirPants is removing stuff that's being misused, not necessarily saying that such-and-such is an unreliable source. My "stay away from this article" warning was meant to apply as long as he didn't understand the subject, and despite what it looked like at first, FLorAT has demonstrated his continued inability to understand the sources properly (if he understood them, he wouldn't be saying these things), so substantive edits to the article cannot help but cause problems. While I appreciate the fact that he's trying to frame this as a NPOV issue (reflecting the positions of various authors who disagree with each other), it's not that kind of situation: only his misunderstanding of the sources causes him to think that they're in conflict, and there's no actual conflict between the sources. Nyttend (talk) 22:49, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think you should read all of the discussions, rather than looking at a few poorly summarized diffs from an in-progress, informal discussion that've been presented by an opposing party. I have given an overview of what quite a few sources say, this was even in MjolnirPants' post - see this edit. I've already repeatedly made it clear - even in this very discussion here - that I'm not saying the page should say they're always fallacious. Like I say here, I'm concerned that the page as it currently stands makes it look like appeals to authority mean you must assume the argument is true. The page even currently gives a form of the argument as "Most of what authority A has to say on subject matter S is correct. A says P about S. P is correct". We need more detail than this. Original Position agreed it was rather unclear what "presumption" meant, as he discusses. I am after an article that has more detail on when the appeal is fallacious or fails. This is clear if you read the relevant discussions. Answer honestly: did you read the entirety of the discussions the diffs come from before you made your decision? FL or Atlanta (talk) 23:04, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I would like you thoughts on what I say here. I consider that to be proof that MjolnirPants is misrepresenting my conduct and positions. FL or Atlanta (talk) 23:19, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In the second diff, you not only altered my comments (which is quite rude and disruptive) by inserting your own into the middle of them, but your "evidence" consists of you saying I'm wrong. The page where you indicated your unwillingness to proceed with mediation has been erased. That diff is evidence of nothing except that you disagree with me. It's also worth noting that in that diff, you claim that you opened both mediation attempts. That is also a lie (and not just false, because there's no way you don't know this), as evidenced here (It shows that I opened the first case). MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 00:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
inserting your own into the middle of them
My apologies, that was a mistake - I meant to put them after your post. I've moved them a paragraph lower to where they were meant to go.
your "evidence" consists of you saying I'm wrong
As I said, the timeline itself shows this. It would be against policy for this and a mediation to both be open. The mediation was open when you made this. One of my first comments was even "Won't the source and content issues be resolved in our mediation?". You opening this discussion would have closed the mediation, by policy. And why on earth would I be talking about resolving the issue through the mediation if I had just refused to participate in it?
The page where you indicated your unwillingness to proceed with mediation has been erased.
But as can be seen, that's not enough cover to allow you to be untruthful about what I said.
you claim that you opened both mediation attempts
If you want to be pedantic, more accurately I proposed the first mediation (which you had closed almost immediately) and opened the second. The key fact here is that I've been pro-mediation and attempting to resolve the issue for months. However you closed the first attempt, closed the second, and now are inventing a story where I refused to mediate. FL or Atlanta (talk) 01:09, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Do you understand what Nyttend has explained to you? That's the real question. There are two (possibly three, Original Position hasn't clearly stated one way or the other) people calling for you to be topic banned because your intransigence with respect to this issue. If you will stick to that issue, I will fully cooperate with any light you wish to shed on my own behavior. I'll be the first to admit I'm not perfect. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 01:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think FL or Atlanta's understanding of this topic is not sufficient for him or her to usefully edit this page in a substantive way. Partly this is a result of ignorance of the source material on this subject, partly it is due to a lack of skill in knowing how to research the answer to an academic question. The questions that initially led to the dispute are easily resolved by looking at the primary sources, which are also relatively easy to identify. The fact that FL or Atlanta was unable to do this search competently, instead finding unreliable or out-of-context sources, or to acknowledge the results of this search when correctly done by MjolnirPants, indicates this lack of skill. The fact that FL or Atlanta continues to disregard the primary sources even after over a month of discussion is particularly troubling and could indicate not just lack of skill, but also serious bias on this topic.

That being said, I wouldn't vote for a full topic ban on FL or Atlanta. FLorA has remained polite throughout the discussion and I think could still improve the article through discussion on the Talk page (although I think it best if she or he refrained from substantive edits until more knowledgeable about the subject). But more importantly, it is a clear conflict of interest for me to vote for a ban on content grounds of another editor immediately after participating in an argument with them. I wouldn't trust myself to be objective enough to make that vote wisely. Original Position (talk) 04:50, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you would support restricting FLoA's access to the article page, but not to the talk page. If that is so, I could get behind that, myself. Honestly, any solution that allows the page to progress beyond the sort of original research it currently includes works by me. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:22, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand what User:Nyttend has said, the problem is not a civility issue or disruptive editing so much as a competency issue, failure to understand the subtle differences between deductive reasoning and inductive reasoning and between formal and informal fallacies (and the argument from authority, when fallacious, is an informal fallacy). In that case, my first choice is to close this thread to send the article forward to mediation, leaving the mediator in complete control of the mediation, and able to deal with matters such as misuse of sources and failure to understand. My second choice is a topic-ban from the article page but not from the talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@MjolnirPants: I am too new to Wikipedia to competently judge the appropriate measures to be taken, so I am recusing myself from the decision. I will raise no objection to whatever you all decide. Original Position (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Original Position: I understand what you are saying. I feel much the same way, which is why I didn't call for a specific action in my initial post. I believe the admins are in a better position to make that call. However, I'm not opposed to making my opinion known, for what it's worth.
@Robert McClenon: I would agree with your first choice, except that FLoA's failure to understand seems to come with a refusal to accept correction. I just don't know what anyone might say in mediation that hasn't been said already. While I appreciate that a formal mediator adds a significant amount of weight to the final judgement, we've already had an admin explain the problem to him multiple times, with no indication that he has changed his mind. I also think there's a conduct issue with the way he's been arguing in that I can't see how consistently misrepresenting what everyone around him has said is, in any way, the sort of conduct we should endorse, even tacitly. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 18:19, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly not the right forum for this discussion

Not withstanding the fact that MjolnirPants says he was directed her by an admin, this is clearly not the right place to be having this discussion; for the newer editors involved in this disagreement, you need to understand that ANI's purpose is address behavioural issues, not content disputes. Unless there is WP:3RR or formal topic ban involved here, this needs to be handled via normal WP:consensus and dispute resolution processes. I suggest WP:RfC or at least attempting DRN, if they will still moderate the discussion. I don't want to get too far into the content issue, because I haven't seen the sources being weighed and because, again, it's just not relevant to this discussion. But I will say that whether argument from authority is a logical fallacy by definition is clearly a question which reasonable people can reasonably disagree on. It's (obviously) a deeply philosophical question vulnerable to certain subjectivities. Obviously I don't want anyone to ignore the sources, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't some middle-ground solution here. And mind you, I have a formal background in both linguistics and cognitive science, so you can trust that I know a thing or two about tautologies. ;) Bwahahaha! But seriously, let's move this somewhere more appropriate, there's no real resolution to the dispute that we can reach here. Snow let's rap 04:32, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You're wrong about pretty much everything you said. There is a conduct issue here, dispute resolution has been attempted twice, and whether or not an argument from authority is a fallacy 'by definition' is not subject to debate in any way whatsoever (one wonders about your claim to a background in linguistics when you make such a statement). Note that I'm not saying I disagree. I'm flatly stating that you are objectively wrong about almost everything you said.. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:39, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A) If there is a behavioural issue involved here, then you have a responsibility as the party who opened this discussion to provide diffs establishing as much. You haven't done that. You've provided a long list of diffs of another party making content arguments you happen to disagree with. Like any other editor on this project who is not subject to a topic ban, they are completely entitled to assert their position, even if you are really, really convinced you are in the right. This project is based on collaboration between parties with often highly distontigous outlooks. An editor is not deemed to be acting in a WP:disruptive fashion just because they assert something that another party (or even the majority) believes is incorrect (or even colossally wrong). What is disruptive is when a party attempts to subvert the consensus-making process (such as through the attempt to intimidate other contributors or chill opposing positions, or by violating WP:3RR or other procedural rules), acts uncivilly to their fellow editors, or otherwise breaks from a collaborative mindset. Present us evidence that FLoA has acted in such a manner and we will something to discuss, but, having taking a brief look at that talk page and read the entire discussion above, I'm joining with other editors here who have suggested you might want to take a look at WP:BOOMERANG (and probably WP:BATTLEGROUND as well).
B) According to our most active DRN mediator, both times that mediation has "been attempted", as you put it, the process had to be cut short specifically because you took an action (such as this thread) which brings an immediate end to the DRN process, as a matter of policy. For that matter, from what I can see, there hasn't been a single attempt, on the part of you are any other party to the dispute, to RfC this issue or otherwise avail yourself of any of the many, many other community insight mechanisms that are usually used well in advance of formal mediation. So, no, you haven't even begun to exhaust your options for resolving this issue in a collaborative manner.
C) I'm not going to argue the content point with you here; you've been told numerous times already that this is not the purpose of ANI. And since your apparently absolute inability to tolerate opinions divergent from your own seems to have created a situation in which you became blind to the tone of my comments, I'll point out to you that my having referenced my formal background was meant as a matter of humour--an attempt to bring some flash-in-the-pan-length levity to a situation that is apparently dominated by content warriors at present. It wasn't genuinely meant to convince you of anything. Do you know why it wasn't (other than the fact that I'd have to be completely lacking in a sense of irony to make such a statement in this context)? Because it's not in any sense relevant to a Wikipedia content discussion. Neither credentials nor a self-assumed air of expertise govern how we weight arguments in this project.
Here, one's arguments either comport with the sources and community consensus for WP:verifiability and WP:Neutrality principles (and other content guidelines) as assessed by WP:LOCALCONSENSUS or they don't. But the very first thing I saw on that talk page when I decided to follow up on this dispute (after reading the above thread) was you attempting to shoot-down another editor's argument with exactly this rational: you need to listen to us, because we know more than you. That's a completely non-compelling argument, verging on problematic battleground behaviour, anywhere on Wikipedia--but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that it seems especially indicative of a certain lack of self-awareness when delivered on the talk page for the argument from authority article, where I would expect editors to know better, even if they are relatively unfamiliar with Wikipedia's consensus-building process.
Anyway, you can continue to take umbrage with everyone here who is trying to give you good advice, from the veteran editors, to mediators, to the very same admin who you are attempting to cite as having given you the authority to dismiss the opinion of other editors out of hand (who has clearly attempted to stress to you above that his actions do not give you a blank check to act in this fashion), but I can fairly well promise you that this thread is going to be closed without a sanction against your "opposition", because insofar as his activities to date (as represented by all of the diffs here) are concerned, he hasn't done anything actionable. And for every editor who makes a good-faith effort to point you towards compromise that you snap at, you get yourself a little closer to a WP:trouting at the least, and possibly even a genuine boomerang sanction, since, whatever you think of his content argument, FLoA seems to be comporting himself much better with our collaboration policies at present than you are. At least, insofar as my window into the issue here and in the most recent TP threads is concerned. Snow let's rap 03:39, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Snow Rise: I have no response to you. You come here with a chip on your shoulder, making blatantly untrue assertions while laying claim to an expertise you don't seem to realize your own claims lacks (linguistics != philosophy), you insist that I haven't done most of the things I have done just above, you insist there's a consensus against my request (in fact, the only person who has argued against a topic ban for FLoA is FLoA himself)... You take an extemely confrontational tone, in order to accuse me of battleground editing... I have no response to you, because I there is no such thing as a rational response to this kind of tripe.
In case you haven't noticed, you are the only person I'm addressing here. Do you know why that is? Because, as I've said multiple times and which you either didn't read or didn't give a crap about; the only thing I care about is the article. FLoA isn't editing the article right now, which means that I'm fully satisfied as things stand. You might also notice that I've been fine with another editor who held this same divergent opinion editing the article, because his edits are now improving it. The only thing keeping me here is you and your ridiculously confrontational (and ridiculous in general) accusations. And those, I don't have the time or patience for. So go bother someone else, I'm done with ya. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 14:21, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Chip on my shoulder? I'm a completely uninvolved party (who has not edited the article in question, nor a related article nor interacted with any of the disputants in any way) who is trying to tell you that you've deeply misunderstood the purpose of this noticeboard and the nature of what differentiates a content argument that you simply don't like from genuine disruptive behaviour on this project. I made one oblique reference to my outlook that the topic is a complex one, merely as part of an appeal to all parties towards a collaborative mindset, and you jumped down my throat telling me how "wrong, wrong, wrong!" I am, even though all I said was that it was a topic that "reasonable people can reasonably disagree about"; I didn't say anything about what the content should reflect based on our sources (again, as we've tried to tell you repeatedly, that's not what this space is for). You got so worked up about that one brief comment, which is the first I assume you've ever seen of me (and which wasn't directed at any party in particular), that you pretty unambiguously implied I was a liar (on a topic that doesn't even have any weight to the matter at hand in any event).
Looking at the discussion above and the recent talk page threads, this approach of hyperbolic overreaction to ideas you disagree with--particularly by attacking the qualities (/perceived credentials/perceived shortcomings) of the other party rather than their arguments--seems to be becoming your modus operandum and that's just not how content discussions are conducted on this project. Furthermore, there's an issue here with how you perceive your role on that page, and what the actions and perspectives you feel entitled to embrace just because you are certain you have the best interests of the article and mind and believe you're knowledge puts you in a position to adjudicate what that means. Look at your comments above:
"as I've said multiple times and which you either didn't read or didn't give a crap about; the only thing I care about is the article. FLoA isn't editing the article right now, which means that I'm fully satisfied as things stand. You might also notice that I've been fine with another editor who held this same divergent opinion editing the article, because his edits are now improving it.
Please read WP:OWN. You're fully satisfied because another editor has now been cow-tailed into not editing the article, even though he has received no topic ban or other community sanction for the subject matter, just your ire for seeing things differently? You're fine with another editor who previously put forth ideas you didn't like because he is now only making edits you approve of as "improving" (sorry, "improving") the article? Well, your idea that your subjective assessment of what "improves" an article is what will govern whether or not another contributor's involvement in that article is "disruptive" is or in the article's best interest, is deeply problematic in itself. We have a consensus-building process to make those determinations, and its predicated on presenting detailed arguments about the sources and the content, not your hair-trigger assessments of other editors based on your own self-assessment that you know this topic best and thus know what is best for the article.
In cases where such detailed discussions do take place (including efforts to reach out to the broader community via WP:RfC or other mechanisms in instances where there is a deadlock or the number of editors is so small that they can't constitute a strong consensus decision; i.e. the kind of 2v2, 2v1, 3v2 that often plague articles on which small numbers of editors are trying to trash out a content issue) do lead to an established consensus and another editor continues to try to edit the article against that consensus, then THAT is disruptive. Do you have any diffs to present to prove that FLoA did that? Because then we would have something to discuss here. How about violations of WP:3RR? We could also respond to that. Did he make any WP:Personal attacks? Did he WP:SOCK in an attempt to change the outcome of a discussion? Did he follow you to another space to WP:HOUND you? These are all examples of what this community views as disruptive behaviour. At present time, "having an opinion MjolnirPants really, really disagrees with" is not considered a disruptive activity on a talk page. Present us with a diff that represents something the community recognizes as disruptive under policy or else drop the stick and go back to the talk page and discuss this matter civilly, using RfC or another process to clarify the issue conclusively, if necessary. Snow let's rap 19:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note to admin As I posted above, FLoA seems to have stopped editing the page. I'm not sure why this is, but it is the result I wanted. On the positive side, the other user from the original AN/I notice is editing the page in a helpful way, which is simply awesome. I'm not sure what Snow Rise wants or expects, but right now, all of my concerns have been alleviated and I'm content. I hope that the direction this discussion took will be enough. I'm going to post diffs of some of the comments here to FLoA's talk page, to make sure he understands in the (likely) case he's not been following it, and I'm content to let this discussion be closed. I'm also un-watching this page, so if my attention is needed, please ping me. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 15:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to Close

The assessment of User:Snow Rise is persuasive. This is not a conduct dispute. It is at its basis a content dispute. Adding incorrect information and using unreliable sources are really content issues. It is only if an editor tendentiously inserts incorrect information or uses unreliable sources, or edit-wars about the incorrect information, that there is the conduct issue of disruptive editing. I have not seen any evidence of edit-warring or tendentious editing. This issue should be sent back to formal mediation if the parties are still willing to mediate and the mediators are willing to reopen the suspended mediation. If mediation has been foreclosed, a Request for Comments is in order. This thread should be closed and sent back to content dispute resolution. It is a content dispute.

  • Support as proposer. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think we needed a formal proposal here, since it was inevitable that this was going to be closed in short order for lack of any evidence of behavioural issue which can be addressed by community sanction under any policy. Nonetheless, I support as a means of indicating to both sides of this dispute that they must WP:Drop the stick and find a way to collaborate civilly--and particularly to learn how to disagree by predicating their arguments on our content guidelines and not eachother's shortcomings/their own superiority. Snow let's rap 18:31, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User 209.66.197.28: multiple edit wars

It seems user 209.66.197.28 (talk) is currently involved in a number of edit wars. He or she keeps reverting and getting reverted without ever discussing their edits that focus on advocating Tongyong Pinyin and traditional Chinese characters. This behaviour is most disruptive. Can someone please look into this. LiliCharlie (talk) 23:30, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've left another warning on their page. further edit warring should result in a block. Blackmane (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. LiliCharlie (talk) 23:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both. Phlar (talk) 00:37, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
He is still edit warring, as can be seen at Yiguandao, Chinese Taipei, Zhongli District and many others. Phlar (talk) 21:34, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Very disruptive user, editing warring with numerous people, editing against MOS:ZH guidelines, and ignoring multiple warnings. Please block right away. -Zanhe (talk) 23:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to negotiate with them assuming good faith, however they don't seem to be willing to provide sources to back their assertions, relying only on their personal observations and speaking in absolutes ("nobody uses this"). They seem to be ideologically motivated, replacing all mentions of the character 台 with 臺, going as far as to replace what they think is the correct character for an author's name despite the author's clear preference.[251] I support Zanhe's suggestion above. _dk (talk) 23:36, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
+1. User ignores all requests for discussion and keeps reverting. Please block this IP. LiliCharlie (talk) 00:22, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please block. Fixing his mess is getting really tedious. Phlar (talk) 01:06, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism to article

Article in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_pride

With this article, all the sources and references refer to opinion based media/news pieces, allowed to be used as some kind of "verifiable" or "reliable source", yet none of the references point to any factual scientific based information. This article as written is the perspective used by the anti-white racists to slander all white people by portraying the whites as the racist, yet the slanderers refusing to be seen as what they really are: racist against whites. What if the black pride article had been written from the same perspective? There would be an uproar all over the internet, social media, and Wikipedia talk pages about its "blatant racism", yet no such uproar for blatant racism against whites? It is offensive and clearly needs to be temporarily removed until a proper article can be written for it. Anytime similar media stories or opinion pieces relating to the other skin color or sexual orientation pages are posted equating them as racist, militant, or supremacist, typically using the exact same "verifiable" or "reliable sources" (many times the same website or news media story as used in the white pride article is referenced), they are removed as spam, unverified, or unreliable. Even when factual evidence is presented linking the black pride groups (like the Black Panthers and NAACP) to racism, it is still removed. This sets a blatant double standard. Currently, the only the racist opinionated article, reference and sources allowed to remain on Wikipedia are against whites, continuing to propagate this racism against this one skin color. This entire piece (as well as the others mentioned about black pride, asian pride, and gay pride) need to be rewritten to the same equal standards, either portray them all as sexist/racist groups, or portray none of them as such. Refusing to correct this sets a double standard and undermines the entire unbiased basis of Wikipedia. I recommend this story be temporarily taken down until a factual legitimate piece can replace it without the anti-white racist perspective. White pride has nothing to do with white supremacy, the KKK, or racism against other skin colors or cultures. Even if those racist groups may use that terminology on occasion, their use is not the basis behind white pride, just as the racist Black Panthers commonly refer to and say "black pride" with no backlash, thus the removal of this article is needed until it can be rewritten. If this article is allowed to remain as is, then the black pride, asian pride, and other pieces must be modified also follow the same format, portraying them as racist as well. The currently used opinion based sources and references can be easily listed under a separate heading of "occasional use by racist groups" as a means to propagate their racism against other people, but it must also be clearly stated that their use of this term is NOT the true basis behind white pride. Fix it or remove it. (Talikarni (talk) 22:11, 10 February 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Is this about the actual vandalism, which has been reverted, and the vandal can be reported at WP:AIV, or is this a content dispute, in which case, given the divisiveness of the topic, a request for formal mediation should be submitted? Robert McClenon (talk) 22:28, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In the words of... No clue. But they said, "Seriously?"-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If a CU happens to be passing, please see here. BethNaught (talk) 22:40, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There was vandalism. It has been reverted and the vandal warned twice. If there is a content dispute, formal mediation would be a good idea. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:44, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Been following white pride and black pride since the influx of SPAs. I think they are meat puppets brought by this Reddit thread. An IP editor on Talk:White pride mentioned ([252]) that comparisons of the wiki articles had been circulating social media. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:31, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And we have seen a deluge of emails to OTRS about the same thing.--ukexpat (talk) 02:22, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Persistent vandalism and incivility by IP user

The above IPs have been disruptive to several articles over the past week or so, most notably Lana Del Rey album articles (Born to Die, Paradise, Ultraviolence and Honeymoon), but there were also repeated disruptions to I Cry When I Laugh and Purpose (Justin Bieber album). Operator has been warned several times [253], [254], [255] to stop removing Metacritic score data from the professional reviews box, and the IP responded by calling me "butthurt" several times [256], [257], [258], [259], [260]. They were warned by Karst on their talk page for the latter, but they've continued editing in the same pattern [261].

I suspect this is the same person who was operating 156.12.250.224 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) back in January, who was involved in similar disruption. Could we get some IP edit protection on the 6 listed album articles, and maybe a temp block for the IPs? All bar one of them - 50.153.66.14 - is registered with Kutztown University, Pennsylvania. I noticed the template posted at the top of this page has instructions on how to deal with disruptive editors who use the school's IPs. Thanks. Homeostasis07 (talk) 00:20, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And another one, 156.12.252.235 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Homeostasis07 (talk) 02:49, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, here's the deal. I added the MC score to a page one time, and someone else removed it, saying that the "MC score is only needed once." When I tried to re-add it, I got banned from Wikipedia. So if you're going to ban me now for doing the exact OPPOSITE of that, that's messed up. 156.12.252.235 (talk) 03:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • IP, you may have been blocked, but not banned. Get it right. Homeostasis, I'd remove Metacritic too. But more importantly, I do not see how you are also not edit warring. To put it another way, stop edit warring; the two of you are equally guilty, unless I see something that says "Removing Metacritic is considered vandalism." Drmies (talk) 03:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As the editor who placed the warning I will make a brief statement here and will create a section on the Honeymoon talk page about the issue at hand to encourage discussion. The main reason I placed the warning had to do with the comments in the edits and the lack of intention of seeking a compromise. The reaction to the warning I placed appeared to confirm this. I would encourage the editor to a) create an account b) engage with the discussion on the album talk page. Karst (talk) 12:04, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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@Drmies: How exactly have I edit warred? I've reverted edits that I consider to be vandalism, but even still have not violated WP:3RR. What's more, the IP has taken what you said here and used it as an excuse to revert once again. Through their most recent 156.12.252.235 IP, they've violated 3RR on four separate articles now [262], [263], [264], [265]. Vandalism in anyone's book. Also, the main contention of the IP user has been that Metacritic data shouldn't be used in the Professional ratings box. I told them on two separate occasions [266], [267] to discuss their issue at Template:Album ratings, the correct forum to do so. They ignored that advice. As you can see on the right of your screen, Metacritic data is facilitated and very easily invoked in professional ratings boxes of album articles. The IP just doesn't want to accept it, and no amount of discussion would change that. Look through my interactions with these several IPs for over two weeks now. Please tell me, what else could I have done to diffuse this situation? Homeostasis07 (talk) 01:55, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Homeostasis07, let's get a few things straight, in no particular order. First of all, that something is "facilitated" one way or another doesn't make it good. We have a template you can add to an EL section to link someone's Twitter feed, and their Facebook, and their MySpace--doesn't mean you should add them, let alone all of them. Second, one doesn't need to break 3R to be guilty of edit warring--this is forgotten all too frequently, and always at the forgetter's peril. Third, what someone considers vandalism may not be considered vandalism by someone else; clearly the IP is not trying to sabotage Wikipedia--they only want to remove that website you like. You can quibble over these points, of course, and argue against them, but arguing against item 2 and 3 is useless: just look up the definitions of edit warring and vandalism.

    The more general point--I have no intention of persecuting anyone for edit warring here; I can't say I care enough to really look into who said what when and who revert who when with or without edit summary and discussion on the talk page and all that; this is why working ANEW is so tedious.

    The IP has been told to get an account--that, of course, is nonsense. What is not nonsense is that the IP should be discussing and not edit warring (that goes for everyone and, *deep sigh*, I'm NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT DISCUSSING STUFF OK), and that they can be blocked if they are considered to be edit warring (report them at ANEW) or otherwise editing disruptively (like "editing against consensus"), which one could report at AIV, maybe, or here of course. But note that (I repeat) I see no evidence of vandalism, and calling someone "butthurt" isn't really blockable. If you want semi-protection, you can easily make a case and then report it at RFPP, and such a case may well be accepted. Sorry, but all this seems just really obvious to me. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 03:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive me, @Drmies:, but I feel like you're venting about things that have nothing to do with this thread at large. I don't particularly "like" Metacritic, but it is a WP:Notable site, and is facilitated and has been cited within the Critical reception sections of every decently-graded album article for the past four years. In the same way that Twitter and Facebook links are posted in the External Links sections of artist articles - not Myspace, because it obviously isn't 2007. And it isn't "nonsense" to tell an IP to register. At least that way you can presume you're talking to the same person for 30 days, and not have to rely on WHOIS to tell you that the IP originates from Kutztown University, Pennsylvania. You said above that you'd "remove Metacritic too". So clearly this has gotten on the wrong side of you from the off set. So close this. I'll be sure to take up your helpful advice, and report these IPs at the forums you've suggested. May I in turn suggest you take some time off from the ANI page? You seem irritable; maybe even completely fed up. You sound like you could do with a month off. Homeostasis07 (talk) 01:44, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I accept your apology, of course. Just don't report someone for vandalism if you don't understand what "vandalism" means. We're all volunteers here, and having to explain basic policy means I can't be out and about making blocks and abusing editors. Have a nice day. Drmies (talk) 03:32, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Harold Holt RfC close

Guy closed an RfC at the Harold Holt talk page with [268] and [269]


Is that close valid and proper? This is an issue being discussed (with a shipload of personal attacks, alas) at the Talk:Harold Holt page. Thank you. (closer notified) Collect (talk) 13:37, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I was coming here to raise this issue. In closing this dispute, Guy unanimously sided with Collect over every single other user who had replied to the RfC. I had gotten involved in this dispute because I'd had the page watchlisted and had a copy of the authoritative biography on Holt, The Life and Death of Harold Holt, by dour academic historian Tom Frame. In justifying his close, Guy stated "even the subject of the claim appears not to have used it in the unambiguous sense supported by some editors here" - even though I'd quoted portions from the Frame biography stating very clearly and unambiguously otherwise. I wasn't involved in the initial dispute, the Cold War not being my usual area, and only engaged at all because I happened to have a copy of the biography on my shelf, but have gotten increasingly annoyed at Collect's aggressive attitude and utter refusal to acknowledge that most of the sources on the subject even exist, let alone engage with their contents. But taking the stance Guy took in justifying overriding an otherwise unanimous RfC as to an issue of fact as an admin, Guy is arguing with Holt's biographer, Holt's wife, the coverage of Australia's most reliable broadsheet newspaper over many years, the Australian Dictionary of Biography, and many other clearly reliable sources.
I don't blame Guy for this: you see editors arguing about the inclusion of mention of an affair and it's easy to skim through the discussion and, as Guy did, chalk it up to "tabloid tittle-tattle" if you're not paying attention. The problem is that it's an affair that has been very widely reported on in reliable sources. Holt's biographer, who doubles as the Archbishop of the Australian Defence Force, is about as far from "tabloid" as you get. I'd hardly call Holt's wife's memoirs tabloid, or the Australian Dictionary of Biography, which is written by professional historians out of the Australian National University and referred to in the vast majority of well-sourced Australian biographies, including many featured articles.
I've managed to avoid encountering this kind of RfC process in my years on Wikipedia because I try to stay out of conflict, but this situation seems to me a bit surreal: how can you have an admin challenging basically all reliable sources on a question of fact and stating something flatly wrong in his close?
In attempting to deal with Collect and combing through Holt's biography, one of the other editors discovered an eight year hoax in a related section of the article, raised it, and fixed it, and was reflexively attacked on the talk page by Collect for doing so. In all that long talk page, Collect has never once even acknowledged the existence of any of the sources I've discussed here despite repeated frustrating attempts by many editors to try to get him to discuss their contents. It's as if he saw the issue of adultery raised and saw red and was determined to have a fight no matter what reliable sources said.
Collect has been previously topic banned from the entirety of US politics for his aggressive edit warring and general bad behaviour on that subject, and it seems to me from his behaviour here that it isn't just limited to US politics, but politics in general; he seems to have merely shifted his focus to Australian politics. I'm unaware of how to raise the question of extending someone's topic ban, but it does seem to be getting appropriate at this stage. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When in doubt, attack the messenger. Alas - you will find that my "extensive edit warring" is not existent, that some of those who testified against me (where I was denied any right of reply as I was going out of the country, and facing life-threatening illness in my immediate family) included major stalkers, a plagiarist, a "Jew-labeler", and the like, and where my position "do not make accusations of guilt by association" applying to every single person on or off this planet remains and shall remain my position. Cheers - I have no interest in Australian politics or British politics or Russian politics, or, for that matter, US politics, but using a litany of "Collect is evil" is the last resort of those who can not bear the WP:TRUTH being the rule in Wikipedia. Collect (talk) 14:28, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since both Holt and Gillespie (the alleged lover's) are dead, BLP is not an issue. However since Holt was unable to confirm it, and from looking at the sources used, when asked directly Gillespie stated it was an 'emotional affair'. Directly referring to them as 'lovers' as a statement of fact when the allegations were made by third parties would be incorrect. 'Alleged/reported/rumoured lover' would all be in line with sourcing/neutrality policies and as that is pretty much the substance of Guy's close, I cant see what the issue is here. Statements of fact are not made in wikipedia's voice unless you can actually evidence it. Just insert 'alleged' in front of 'lover' as Guy suggested and stop wasting people's time. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:14, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is not what the sources say, which is why I'm getting so frustrated - rather, the sources all make it pretty clear that she gave an ambiguous answer that once, but very loudly and repeatedly over very many years that they had an actual affair, a claim accepted by Holt's wife. Frame gives so little weight to that answer he doesn't mention it in his very in-depth biography. It's frustrating as an editor more used to resolving more arcane and less contentious questions of history to go to the trouble of cracking open biographies to resolve editorial disputes when editors drawn to the dispute don't bother reading any of it and just run with their first assumption.. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Almost universally where there is contradicting information (one of the parties to the affair giving different answers at different times certainly would be a contradiction) that it is unable to verify, the guiding principle is to choose the least contentious version. As it is basically gossip, its not worth arguing over. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:27, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We edit conflicted, but no one here is disagreeing with "statements of fact are not made in Wikipedia's voice unless you can actually evidence it"; it's that Guy couldn't be bothered to read any of that evidence (even the quotes from his biographer), and thus didn't know (amongst other things) that the "allegations" were not made by third parties and were even supported by Holt's wife. I'm fine with your suggestion "reported lover" (which is what I have been advocating for, for the reason you note), but Collect is edit warring to remove it. It is really disheartening to bother adding material to Wikipedia from detailed reliable sources such as biographies to have an admin "overturn" what a Prime Minister's biographer has to say and make a rude close based on as statement of fact that is objectively false because he couldn't be bothered, both in principle and because it's egged on Collect's aggression towards the editors trying to ensure that a badly-sourced article on an important subject actually gets sources. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:43, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My suggestion was to use "rumoured" as covering all the bases of the "tittle-tattle" (as Guy termed it), as I am a tad unsure than any mention is actually "encyclopedic" at all. Collect (talk) 14:33, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Be careful folks, that the Rfc doesn't continue here, at ANI. GoodDay (talk) 14:35, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GoodDay, what recourse do editors have when an admin skims a dispute, stuffs up, and makes a declaration of fact that is provably wrong? Guy's close is "the Pope is a Protestant" sort of wrong (it's not a disputable matter; he states in his close that Marjorie Gillespie's public statements were something they were provably not), and it's really disheartening for the editors trying to work from book sources left dealing with an aggressive Collect spurred on by his stuffup. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:43, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is claimed that I did not read the RfC comments, sources, or whatever. That's not true. I did. I concluded from the actual sources presented and discussed in the debate that to state as fact that there was an affair, based on the statements, is tendentious - a point Collect made well. An RfC is not a vote, we're expected to weigh the quality of arguments. There's no dispute that an affair was claimed, and that the claims were believed, but that is not the same thing. And yes, it is my personal opinion that a grossly excessive amount of time and effort has been wasted over tittle-tattle, when the use of a single qualifying word would have resolved the entire dispute. The debate has been unbelievably bad-tempered considering the minimal objective importance of the point at issue especially now the point at issue is a single qualifying word.

That's the real problem here: all this time, effort, verbiage and wrongteous outrage vented over the determination that we should not use even a single word to qualify the claims of an affair of a politician who died before my fourth birthday.

As I have said before, I have no problem with another admin reviewing the close and changing it if they see fit. The very last thing we need is for an admin to invest personal pride in being "right" when they close an RfC. I am comfortable with my reading of it, but I am not going to climb the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man if it's amended or reversed or whatever. Guy (Help!) 15:03, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Endorse close I took a long look at this article and talk page several days ago, I think due to an RFPP request. We don't count !votes while closing an RFC. It matters, but it's only one of several factors taken into consideration. Unless it can be stated with absolute certainty that this affair occurred in the fashion in which it was stated in the article, it shouldn't be included. Using 'rumored' or 'claimed', or even saying something like 'X source says this while Y source says that' is a better solution according to policy. It's one thing to say with certainty that there are rumors of this affair. It's another to say that those rumors are fact. We can do the former, but the latter is contentious, so the qualifier is appropriate and the RFC was closed properly. Katietalk 16:41, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I posted this above without realising this discussion was going on here. I don't see a source that denies that the affair occurred:
I think this debate relating to the Harold Holt page is bizarre, but I think the RfC closed by Guy needs an independent reassessment which does not centre on particular editors' conduct. I had the page on my watch-list because I was interested in the issue of prime ministerial succession. I noticed the RfC initiated by Collect. I noted that the description of Marjorie Gillespie as Holt's lover was well-sourced and notable. It is included in the reputable biographies provided by the Australian Dictionary of Biography and by Tom Frame (bishop). However, Guy described this as "tabloid tittle-tattle" and recommended "omitting it altogether". This discussion included prominent reference to a source (that we now know dates from 1973) which said that Gillespie had "imprudently" not denied the rumours. However, we know now that it said "impudently", which gives a completely different interpretation to this quotation. The immediate source of that quotation was Tom Frame's 2005 biography of Holt, and occurred in a passage where he notes that Gillespie identified herself as Holt's lover in 1988. The RfC therefore (largely by accident) pivoted on misquoted information from 1973. Guy in closing appeared to be unaware that Gillespie had identified herself as Holt's lover, that this had been reported by many reputable sources, and that it was also confirmed by Holt's wife, Zara. In the aftermath of this discussion, I fortuitously discovered that the text relating to Holt's disappearance was actually marred by an 8-year-old hoax, which stated that a bogus list of Holt's "friends" and two bodyguards had been on the beach when he disappeared. In fact, Holt went to the beach with Marjorie Gillespie, her daughter, her daughter's boyfriend, and a young man who was her house guest. There was no one else there. This means that she was the main witness to Holt's disappearance. When I corrected the text, I was accused by Collect of violating the RfC. Guy subsequently accused me of having an "unhealthy obsession" with Holt's sex life. Beyond this morass of innuendo, hoax, misquotation, and accusation, the fundamental point is the article needs improvement. I think we all agree with Guy's closing statement that we need to stick with what the sources say. But the sources say, as the Talk page shows, that Gillespie was Holt's lover. She acknowledged it, and so did Holt's wife. Wikipedia is not censored. We should not be disingenuous, coy, naive, or euphemistic. Let's just admit Gillespie was Holt's lover, he was at the beach with her when he disappeared, and move on. I don't think anyone has cause to crow about this. We discussed the RfC without noticing a blatant hoax. Both sides bandied about a mistaken quotation. Both sides supported a premature close to the RfC. Let's move on.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:10, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PS To clarify, the quotation about Gillespie saying it was an "emotional affair" was misquoted in the original RfC. The source said she didn't deny the rumours "impudently", not "imprudently". Also this was from 1973. In 1988, she stated she was Holt's lover, which is stated by the Australian Dictionary of Biography and by Tom Frame's biography. If people want to quote sources, can they please stop repeating errors from the original RfC that have since been corrected?--Jack Upland (talk) 10:27, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PPS I resent being attacked by Guy as having an "unhealthy obsession" with a dead man's sex life because I've discovered a hoax.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:30, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It should probably be noted that Collect routinely removes other editors' comments as he sees fit, wrongfully labeling such comments as personal attacks, and continuing to do so in spite of multiple warnings. The latest example would be the removal of a notification about this discussion: [270]. I could look for the rest of the diffs if anyone is interested. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 14:39, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In the interests of clearing this up, here are the relevant quotations in full and (I hope) without errors.
"I have not included the names of women with whom Holt allegedly had a sexual relationship because I was unable to confirm or deny that most of these relationships took place. By their very nature they were always illicit and Holt was very 'discreet'. Holt's former colleagues assumed rather than knew he was seeing other women although Zara [Holt's wife] confirmed his frequent infidelities with some bitterness shortly before her death. The sole exception is Marjorie Gillespie, who identified herself publicly as Holt's lover." (p 20)
"She [Marjorie Gillespie] also revealed in 1988 that she was 'Harold Holt's lover', a claim repeated in various magazines and newspapers. Simon Warrender had previously questioned Marjorie Gillespie about her relationship with Holt.
I referred to constant rumours since the Cheviot tragedy that she and Harold were having an affair. Impudently, she did not deny the rumours. 'Of course, Simon', she said, 'what is your interpretation of an affair?'. I told her. She said that there were various types of affairs - intimate affairs and sordid affairs and emotional affairs. Hers with Harold, she said, was an emotional affair based on 'mutual intellectual admiration and respect'." (p 304)
[The indented quotation from Warrender comes from his memoirs Score of Years published in 1973. Warrender was a businessman and friend of Holt.]
  • From the Australian Dictionary of Biography[271]:
"Provoked by public disclosures that Marjorie Gillespie had been his lover, Zara claimed that Gillespie was just 'one of the queue'. Zara knew of Harry's affairs and tolerated them, but she also deliberately exaggerated the extent of his indulgence."
It is cherry-picking sources to focus on a reported conversation published in 1973 and ignore the fact that Gillespie made an unambiguous statement in 1988. As mentioned above, "Impudently" was accidentally misquoted on the Talk page as "Imprudently", which is entirely different. "Impudently" suggests that she was confirming the affair (which is how I would read the comment, anyway). In any case, the continued reference to this 1973 quotation, including in the discussion here is perverse. The gist of the RfC is that we should follow the sources, so here they are for the first time.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:19, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From the quotes provided above and other comments it seems that people are making the assumption that emotional == platonic. There is no indication, in the quote provided, that she is attempting to describe the affair as platonic rather than an emotionally fulfilling sexual affair ie 'friends and lovers' vs 'sordid sex in a closet' seems to be the essence of her comparason. The statement expands on and refines the term lover rather than contradicts it. JbhTalk 22:28, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: In my understanding, close reviews belong on WP:AN, not here on ANI. Having it here seems to prolong the issues already discussed in this ANI thread. I propose that this discussion be moved to WP:AN. -- Softlavender (talk) 03:25, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I understand too.--Jack Upland (talk) 04:08, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removal/downplaying of well-sourced content through cherry-picking and editing with a POV

Damianmx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User Damianmx is constantly removing/downplaying well referenced material written by modern-day scholars (historians/linguists/philologists) who explain the etymology of the word "Georgians", in order to favor lore-based tales written by medieval authors. He has not cited ONE proper modern RS source that backs up these medieval tales as for being the etymology of the word, yet he puts them into the articles as if they were actual theories accepted by a part of the modern scholarly community (which they are not), while at the same time he largely deletes/tweaks that sourced content that comprises the actual scholarly conclusions. Simply because historical individuals like Jean Chardin (traveller) stated something in the 17th century, he puts these 17th century folklore claims on par with statements and conclusions of modern-day academics and scholars, which is total bogus. Even though the actual scholarly sources state a totally different thing and literally debunk these medieval claims even, he just acts as if he hasn't seen it and continues to edit-war per the traditional "pick and choose" routine. Not only is this indeed cherry-picking, its also total disruption, as he's removing legit sources and claims.[272] To make things worse, he only removes part of the sourced content every time. Every time that he's deleting content, he's only removing and completely downplaying that material that 1) states that these medieval tales are not the actual reason behind the word 2) that the word actually derives from a Persian word.

These are some of the core sources he constantly deletes in combination with the material as you can see in the linked diffs, amongst numerous others;[273]-[274]

  • 'Popular theories also purport that the term Georgia/Georgians stems either from the widespread veneration of St. George, who is considered the paton of Georgia, or from the Greek georgos (farmer) because when the Greeks first reached the country they encountered a developed agriculture in ancient Colchis. However, such explanations are rejected by the scholarly community, who point to the Persian gurg/gurgan as the root of the word.'
- Mikaberidze, Alexander (2015). Historical Dictionary of Georgia (e.d. 2). Rowman & Littlefield ISBN 978-1442241466 page 3
  • Georgians; add at the end: Ultimately from Persian gurg "wolf."
- Hock, Hans Henrich; Zgusta, Ladislav. (1997) Historical, Indo-European, and Lexicographical Studies. Walter de Gruyter ISBN 978-3110128840 page 211
  • The Russian designation of Georgia (Gruziya) also derives from the Persian gurg.
- Boeder, et al. (2002) Philology, typology and language structure. Peter Lang ISBN 978-0820459912 page 65

I provided and added numerous sources that back my revision up, but it has nnow been several times that's he's cross-article warring and removing sourced content in order to push a non-RS etymology. He's even reinstating material written by a writers of children's books/travel books in a feigned attempt,[275]-[276] as well as by re-adding material about how the ancient Greco-Romans called the people of the region (0.0% connection with the etymology of the word Georgians). I have made numerous talk page sections to try and get through him why what he's doing is wrong,[277]-[278] but to no avail. Instead of replying to the content of the material, he's constantly evading the topic and most importantly the sources,[279]-[280].

He simply does not want to accept what all these scholars say, and just keeps warring and pushing a self-formulated WP:POV into these articles. Note that I have absolutely no objection against at least the mentioning of these medieval lore stories alongside the clear formulated modern-day conclusions and deductions, but even that is unacceptable as one can see by his editorial pattern on this matter; per his rules, simply these two things are not allowed 1) that the term derives from Persian backed up by numerous sources 2) that these medieval stories are not accepted by the modern-day scholarly community. Anyway, this nonsense and disruption needs to be stopped. Bests - LouisAragon (talk) 04:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like responding to repetitive rants, but I can restate what I've said before. Wikipedia is not a scientific or linguistic journal and it is not our place to be making assessments or rendering judgements as to which theory of etymology is more correct and which is not. We can only report what we know from individual sources. All we can draw from the differing interpretations is that name Georgia is rather old, has a murky history, and it has no single definitive theory as to its provenance. Creating a WP:SYNTHESIS of existing sources to argue that one theory is superlative to the other is original research. "Those old European travelers were wrong and I will set things right", which is pretty much LouisAragon's attitude, is the archetype of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, which should have no place here.--Damianmx (talk) 04:26, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We're not here to assess anything. We are ought to present verifiable in-depth material, backed up by WP:RS. "All we can draw from the differing interpretations "" -- that's the whole thing; you added no interpretation thats backed up by modern-day scholarly sources of being any possibility for the etymology of the word Georgians/Georgia -- modern-day scholars, as I have shown, completely debunk this even, and adhere to a totally different stance. When I added more in-depth material with the inclusion of these numerous contemporary RS sources, it was all simply removed by said user, as it happens to be that it doesnt fit well with his ideas of how Georgians should be presented. Oh, neither do I like responding to repetitive rants, trust me. However, what you're doing over here, is simply what we call disruption, and it needs to be stopped. Erraneously Wikilabeling and removing well-sourced content you just don't like seeing is part of that as well. As I repeat, I have absolutely no problems with what those travellers stated (as one can see; I included all those lore-based stories in my revisions, apart from the modern-day scholarly conclusions, and even added extra material to them which you also removed), but modern-day scholarly conclusions need to be inside the article, when available, and can't just be removed like that simply because you hate seeing it. Try to grasp these simple things; it'll help you alot. - LouisAragon (talk) 04:47, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
After ispecting the artile and the talk page, I must conclude that Damianmx still have serious difficulties understanding WP:RS, and their behavior at the talk page is borderline disruptive. On the other hand, they started the talk page discussion themselves, and did not edit-war, so that at this point I do not see any need to block them. If they continue disruption, and ArbCom case seems to be the only way out, given that this is not the first incident, and so far I was the only administrator remotely interested in resolving this situation.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:19, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]