위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive875
Wikipedia:사용자:Darkstar1st on a site-wide purge of an an an expretary socialism)
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| 사용자가 이 스레드를 닫아 달라고 요청하여, 투명성을 위해 부활시켰다.나는 여기서든 주제든 아니든 금지에 대한 어떠한 합의도 보지 못한다.여러 편집자들이 다크스타원스트의 편집 행태에 대해 여기와 그의 토크페이지에서 모두 우려를 제기했는데, 그가 그들을 마음에 담아주길 바란다.하이DrNick! 2015년 2월 26일 03:01, (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
다크스타1호(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)는 자유주의 토크 페이지에 자유주의자들이 자본주의를 좋아해야 하며 자유주의 사회주의, 자유주의 공산주의, 자유주의 마르크스주의는 (분명히) 일종의 신화라고 선언했다.편집자는 자유주의 사회주의 정치를 묘사하는 모든 페이지에서 전쟁을 편집하기 시작함으로써 WP로부터 그 신화를 삭제하기로 선택했다.
내가 아는 바로는 이러한 libsoc에 대한 언급들 중 어느 것도 조금도 논란의 여지가 없으며, 문제의 정치 단체들은 그들 자신을 일반적으로 모국어로 된 기사에서 확인하듯이 자유주의자라고 묘사하고 있다.인용을 제공하는 것은 전혀 차이가 없는 것 같아 어떻게 진행해야 할지 모르겠다. fi (토크) 00:54, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- PPK에 대한 ref를 보면 Darkstar1st가 맞는 것 같다.자유주의에 대한 모든 언급은 PPK가 아닌 외칼란을 언급하고 있다.다른 사람에 대한 코멘트는 할 수 없지만 사용자가 이 문제에 대해 특별히 편집하고 있는 것 같다.에버그린피르(토크){{re}}{{re}} 01:38, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- PKK에 언급된 내용은 이를 자유사회주의의 변종인 공동체주의자로 묘사하고 있으며, 이를 저명한 자유사회주의 사회주의자 머레이 북친(Murray Bookchin)과 일치시킨다.fi (토크) 01:54, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 그것이 자유 사회주의라고 구체적으로 말하는 RS가 필요하다.그렇지 않으면 수술실이다.에버그린피르(토크){{re}}} 03:35, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이해가 안 돼그 문서는 특히 자유주의 사회주의자라고 분명히 밝히고 있는데, 이는 마오주의를 선포하는 선언이 한 집단을 마르크스-레닌주의자로 동일시하는 것과 정확히 같은 방식이다.북친의 공산주의는 레몬이 감귤류의 일종인 것처럼 자유사회주의의 한 형태다.B ⊃ A fi (대화) 03:50, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사실은 원하는 결과를 상정하고 있는 겁니다.레몬은 감귤류 과일이라고 말하지만, 다른 편집자는 레몬은 감귤류 과일이라는 믿을만한 출처의 인용구가 없는 한, 그것을 기사에 사용할 수 없다.누군가 이의를 제기하면 마오이즘은 마르크스-레닌주의의 한 형태라고 하는 믿을 만한 출처의 인용문이 필요하다, 그렇지 않으면 사용할 수 없다.당신의 정보원은 구체적으로 "북친의 공산주의는 자유사회주의의 한 형태"라고 하는가? (혹은 그런 취지의 말)만약 그렇지 않다면, 그것은 당신이 필요로 하는 원천이 아니다.너의 사전 지식은 충분하지 않아, 너는 출처가 필요해.BMK (대화) 13:48, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 구체적으로 그것을 말하지 않는다.에버그린피르 (토크) 제발 {{re} 17:48, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 그건 정말 바보 같은 짓이야.위키피디아(예를 들어, 공산주의에 관한 기사, 머레이 북친, 자유주의 사회주의에 관한 기사)는 북친의 공산주의가 논란의 여지가 없이 자유주의 사회주의의 한 유형임을 확인하는 참고자료에 절대적으로 도배되어 있다.당신이 하는 말은 마치 어떤 정보원이 명시적으로 그를 '시'라고 불렀고 문자 그대로 '작가'라고 하는 언급이 없기 때문에 '시'라고 부르는 것이 OR이라고 말하는 것과 같다.나는 내 개인적인 지식을 참고자료로 제공하는 것이 아니다; 그것은 위키피디아 전체에 기록되어 있다. 하나는 다른 것의 상위 집합이다.정사각형은 직사각형이기 때문에, 우리는 정사각형이라고 말하는 출처를 가지고 있다면 직사각형이 되는 것에 대한 참조가 필요하지 않다.더 중요한 것은 편집자가 당신 말대로 반대하지 않았고 토론에 믿을 만한 반대나 논쟁을 가져오지 않았다는 점이다.이는 이미 편집자의 랩시트(rap sheet)에 올라온 학대의 연속일 뿐이다.fi (talk) 19:04, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- '상식'은, 더 좋은 말이 없어서, 레몬은 감귤류 과일이고, 시인은 작가라는 것을 말해준다.그것은 우리에게 북친의 공산주의와 자유주의적 사회주의 사이의 관계에 대해 그런 것을 말해주지 않는다.그것은 상식의 범위를 훨씬 벗어나서, 따라서 원천이 필요하다.BMK (대화) 21:20, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 "상식"은 우리에게 정확히 같은 방식으로, 마오주의자가 마르크스-레닌주의자라는 것을 말해준다. 특히 WP 전체에 인용구가 수십 개 있을 때, B ⊃ A라고 말하는 것은 북친, 공산주의, 그리고 (충격적으로) 자유주의 도시주의를 자유주의자로 묘사하는 것과 같다.가장 좋아하는 참조를 선택할 수 있지만 사용자:다크스타1st는 그러지 않았다.그래서 왜 그런 얘기를 하는지 이해가 안 돼. fi (토크) 21:39, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 미국의 세계사회당(World Socialist Party of the World Socialist Party of the United States)이 자유사회주의자라는 것은 상식적으로 어떻게 말해주는가?너의 과장된 주장과는 달리, 나는 그들이 자신들을 그렇게 묘사했다는 것을 전혀 알지 못한다.—사이코넛 (대화) 17:51, 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- WSPUS는 세계사회주의운동의 미국 파견대였는데, 예를 들어 무정부 잡지 3권 1963년, 178쪽(직접 연계는 할 수 없으니, 세계사회주의운동과 비국가 자유주의 사회주의자를 찾아라)에서 자유주의 사회주의자로 묘사되었다."상식"은 그저 타동적인 논리일 것이다.슈퍼셋이 어디에 속하는지 알면 서브셋을 설명할 줄 안다. fi (토크) 21:39, 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 전이논리는 전제를 받아들여야만 효과가 있다.아마도 당신은 정치적 꼬리표가 얼마나 논쟁의 여지가 있는지 알지 못하는가?특히 (현재의 경우처럼) 조직 자체가 그 라벨을 거부하거나 사용하지 않았을 때, 정치 조직에 라벨을 붙이기 전에 여러 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 찾아보라고 충고하고 싶다.—사이코넛 (대화) 14:40, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 전제가 틀렸는지 아닌지는 다른 것이고, 반면에 이것은 타당성에 관한 것이다: 만약 A와 B가 또한 C이다.만약 누군가가 그것이 타당하지만 불건전하다고 주장하고 있다면, 나를 그 토론으로 연결시켜 주시겠습니까?하지만 내가 말했듯이, 나는 논쟁의 여지가 없다는 것을 알고 있고 나는 WSPUS가 자유주의 마르크스주의자 혹은 자유주의 사회주의자로 불리는 것을 거부했을지 의심스럽다.그건 그들의 정치에 대한 가장 정확한 묘사일 뿐이고 경멸적인 것으로 여겨지지 않는다...그들이 그것을 거절했는지는 특별히 중요하지 않다.그룹이 주어진 라벨을 좋아하는지 아닌지는 검증가능성의 유일한 기준이 아니다.어쨌든, 다크스타1스트의 유일한 주장인 역사적으로 libsoc이 어떻게 존재하는지 싫어한다는 주장이었는데, 왜 우리가 이 얘기를 하는지 아직도 이해가 안 가. fi (토크) 21:04, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 다시 말하지만, 넌 그냥 뭔가를 꾸며낸 것 같아.다크스타1스트가 문제의 해제에 대해 진술한 논쟁은 출처의 신뢰성이지, 일반적으로 자유주의적 사회주의 사상에 대한 그의 혐오감은 아니었다.당신은 심지어 그의 편집 요약본까지 링크했다. (그리고 사실, 라벨에 대한 당신의 의심은 아무런 소용이 없다; WSP는 그것이 "마르크시스트"라는 것을 부인하기 때문에 그것은 "자유주의적 마르크시스트"도 문제 삼을 수 있을 것이다.)물론, 당사자들의 분류에 대한 논쟁은 여기서가 아니라 기사에서 가장 잘 해결된다.이미 이 특정 정당의 분류에 대한 토크 페이지 토론이 진행 중인데, 이 토론에 참여해 보십시오.—사이코넛 (대화) 22:19, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 도대체 무슨 말을 하는 거야?WSM과 WSPUS는 반 볼셰비키 고전 마르크스주의자들에 의해 설립되었다.그것은 두 기사 모두 거의 처음 하는 말이다.문제의 편집자와 저 편집자의 POV 십자군원정에 이르기까지, 나는 자유 사회주의가 진정한 자유주의가 아니라는 사용자의 주장처럼 내가 말한 모든 것을 뒷받침할 수 있다. 자유 사회주의는 진정한 자유주의가 아니다. 토론에 들어가는 것을 거부하며, POV와 모순되는 진술에 대해 완벽하게 합법적인 출처를 제거하는 것이다.그 편집자의 행적에 대해 얘기하러 왔어. fi (토크) 22:29, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[하라
- 다크스타1st의 POV에 대한 케이스를 만들려고 하는 경우, 불만 사항의 사실들을 정확히 파악하고, 당신이 호출하고 있는 예들에 대한 약간의 친숙함을 보여주면 도움이 된다.처음에 당신은 다크스타1이 WSP 기사에서 "자유주의 사회주의자"라는 꼬리표를 삭제했다고 언급했는데, 당신은 그들이 "자유주의자"라고 주장했음에도 불구하고 말이다.그러나 WSP(미국)는 스스로를 자유주의자라고 지칭한 적이 없다.그렇다면 당신은 "다크스타1st의 유일한 주장은 libsoc이 어떻게 존재하는지 좋아하지 않는다는 것"이라고 말했다.(나의 강조점은) 비록 당신 자신의 의견들이 한 인용문의 신뢰성과 다른 사람의 언어에 대한 반대 등 다양한 진술된 내용들을 보여주지만 말이다.합리적 근거는 낮지만 정치 이념과는 무관하다.그렇다면 WSP(미국)가 스스로를 마르크스주의자로 지칭할 것이라고 주장하는데, 사실 그들은 항상 상당히 소리 높여 이 라벨을 거부해 왔다.요컨대, 당신의 증거에 구멍을 뚫는 것이 그렇게 쉽지 않다면 나는 당신의 불평을 훨씬 더 심각하게 받아들이고 있을 것이다.—사이코넛 (대화) 23:08, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- WSM은 보통 자유주의 사회주의자라는 꼬리표가 붙으며 자신을 검증하는데 10초가 걸리는 마르크스주의자로 묘사한다.WSM과 WSPUS 기사가 이 그룹에 대한 설명이 100% 틀렸다고 믿을 만한 이유가 있다면, 현재 반레닌주의 고전 마르크스주의자들을 기술하고 있는 기사들, 즉 이 기사들을 완전히 다시 쓰십시오.다크스타1스트가 믿을 수 없다는 이유로 출처를 삭제한 것은, 그 출처는 WSPUS가 발행한 팜플렛이었기 때문에, 나는 WSPUS가 주제에 관한 관련 출처가 아니라고 믿기 어렵다고 생각한다.(모든 관련 WP 기사에서 이용할 수 있는 모든 출처에 따르면) 이 마르크스주의 집단이 불가능명부, libsoc, 둘 다 또는 둘 다로 더 정확하게 묘사되는지에 대해 논의할 만한 가치가 있을지도 모르지만, 편집자는 그 집단을 갖는 데는 관심이 없었다.스스로 조언을 듣고 주제에서 벗어나지 말 것을 권한다. fi (토크) 23:23, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 다크스타1st의 POV에 대한 케이스를 만들려고 하는 경우, 불만 사항의 사실들을 정확히 파악하고, 당신이 호출하고 있는 예들에 대한 약간의 친숙함을 보여주면 도움이 된다.처음에 당신은 다크스타1이 WSP 기사에서 "자유주의 사회주의자"라는 꼬리표를 삭제했다고 언급했는데, 당신은 그들이 "자유주의자"라고 주장했음에도 불구하고 말이다.그러나 WSP(미국)는 스스로를 자유주의자라고 지칭한 적이 없다.그렇다면 당신은 "다크스타1st의 유일한 주장은 libsoc이 어떻게 존재하는지 좋아하지 않는다는 것"이라고 말했다.(나의 강조점은) 비록 당신 자신의 의견들이 한 인용문의 신뢰성과 다른 사람의 언어에 대한 반대 등 다양한 진술된 내용들을 보여주지만 말이다.합리적 근거는 낮지만 정치 이념과는 무관하다.그렇다면 WSP(미국)가 스스로를 마르크스주의자로 지칭할 것이라고 주장하는데, 사실 그들은 항상 상당히 소리 높여 이 라벨을 거부해 왔다.요컨대, 당신의 증거에 구멍을 뚫는 것이 그렇게 쉽지 않다면 나는 당신의 불평을 훨씬 더 심각하게 받아들이고 있을 것이다.—사이코넛 (대화) 23:08, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 도대체 무슨 말을 하는 거야?WSM과 WSPUS는 반 볼셰비키 고전 마르크스주의자들에 의해 설립되었다.그것은 두 기사 모두 거의 처음 하는 말이다.문제의 편집자와 저 편집자의 POV 십자군원정에 이르기까지, 나는 자유 사회주의가 진정한 자유주의가 아니라는 사용자의 주장처럼 내가 말한 모든 것을 뒷받침할 수 있다. 자유 사회주의는 진정한 자유주의가 아니다. 토론에 들어가는 것을 거부하며, POV와 모순되는 진술에 대해 완벽하게 합법적인 출처를 제거하는 것이다.그 편집자의 행적에 대해 얘기하러 왔어. fi (토크) 22:29, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[하라
- 다시 말하지만, 넌 그냥 뭔가를 꾸며낸 것 같아.다크스타1스트가 문제의 해제에 대해 진술한 논쟁은 출처의 신뢰성이지, 일반적으로 자유주의적 사회주의 사상에 대한 그의 혐오감은 아니었다.당신은 심지어 그의 편집 요약본까지 링크했다. (그리고 사실, 라벨에 대한 당신의 의심은 아무런 소용이 없다; WSP는 그것이 "마르크시스트"라는 것을 부인하기 때문에 그것은 "자유주의적 마르크시스트"도 문제 삼을 수 있을 것이다.)물론, 당사자들의 분류에 대한 논쟁은 여기서가 아니라 기사에서 가장 잘 해결된다.이미 이 특정 정당의 분류에 대한 토크 페이지 토론이 진행 중인데, 이 토론에 참여해 보십시오.—사이코넛 (대화) 22:19, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 전제가 틀렸는지 아닌지는 다른 것이고, 반면에 이것은 타당성에 관한 것이다: 만약 A와 B가 또한 C이다.만약 누군가가 그것이 타당하지만 불건전하다고 주장하고 있다면, 나를 그 토론으로 연결시켜 주시겠습니까?하지만 내가 말했듯이, 나는 논쟁의 여지가 없다는 것을 알고 있고 나는 WSPUS가 자유주의 마르크스주의자 혹은 자유주의 사회주의자로 불리는 것을 거부했을지 의심스럽다.그건 그들의 정치에 대한 가장 정확한 묘사일 뿐이고 경멸적인 것으로 여겨지지 않는다...그들이 그것을 거절했는지는 특별히 중요하지 않다.그룹이 주어진 라벨을 좋아하는지 아닌지는 검증가능성의 유일한 기준이 아니다.어쨌든, 다크스타1스트의 유일한 주장인 역사적으로 libsoc이 어떻게 존재하는지 싫어한다는 주장이었는데, 왜 우리가 이 얘기를 하는지 아직도 이해가 안 가. fi (토크) 21:04, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 전이논리는 전제를 받아들여야만 효과가 있다.아마도 당신은 정치적 꼬리표가 얼마나 논쟁의 여지가 있는지 알지 못하는가?특히 (현재의 경우처럼) 조직 자체가 그 라벨을 거부하거나 사용하지 않았을 때, 정치 조직에 라벨을 붙이기 전에 여러 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 찾아보라고 충고하고 싶다.—사이코넛 (대화) 14:40, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- WSPUS는 세계사회주의운동의 미국 파견대였는데, 예를 들어 무정부 잡지 3권 1963년, 178쪽(직접 연계는 할 수 없으니, 세계사회주의운동과 비국가 자유주의 사회주의자를 찾아라)에서 자유주의 사회주의자로 묘사되었다."상식"은 그저 타동적인 논리일 것이다.슈퍼셋이 어디에 속하는지 알면 서브셋을 설명할 줄 안다. fi (토크) 21:39, 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 미국의 세계사회당(World Socialist Party of the World Socialist Party of the United States)이 자유사회주의자라는 것은 상식적으로 어떻게 말해주는가?너의 과장된 주장과는 달리, 나는 그들이 자신들을 그렇게 묘사했다는 것을 전혀 알지 못한다.—사이코넛 (대화) 17:51, 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 "상식"은 우리에게 정확히 같은 방식으로, 마오주의자가 마르크스-레닌주의자라는 것을 말해준다. 특히 WP 전체에 인용구가 수십 개 있을 때, B ⊃ A라고 말하는 것은 북친, 공산주의, 그리고 (충격적으로) 자유주의 도시주의를 자유주의자로 묘사하는 것과 같다.가장 좋아하는 참조를 선택할 수 있지만 사용자:다크스타1st는 그러지 않았다.그래서 왜 그런 얘기를 하는지 이해가 안 돼. fi (토크) 21:39, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- '상식'은, 더 좋은 말이 없어서, 레몬은 감귤류 과일이고, 시인은 작가라는 것을 말해준다.그것은 우리에게 북친의 공산주의와 자유주의적 사회주의 사이의 관계에 대해 그런 것을 말해주지 않는다.그것은 상식의 범위를 훨씬 벗어나서, 따라서 원천이 필요하다.BMK (대화) 21:20, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사실은 원하는 결과를 상정하고 있는 겁니다.레몬은 감귤류 과일이라고 말하지만, 다른 편집자는 레몬은 감귤류 과일이라는 믿을만한 출처의 인용구가 없는 한, 그것을 기사에 사용할 수 없다.누군가 이의를 제기하면 마오이즘은 마르크스-레닌주의의 한 형태라고 하는 믿을 만한 출처의 인용문이 필요하다, 그렇지 않으면 사용할 수 없다.당신의 정보원은 구체적으로 "북친의 공산주의는 자유사회주의의 한 형태"라고 하는가? (혹은 그런 취지의 말)만약 그렇지 않다면, 그것은 당신이 필요로 하는 원천이 아니다.너의 사전 지식은 충분하지 않아, 너는 출처가 필요해.BMK (대화) 13:48, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이해가 안 돼그 문서는 특히 자유주의 사회주의자라고 분명히 밝히고 있는데, 이는 마오주의를 선포하는 선언이 한 집단을 마르크스-레닌주의자로 동일시하는 것과 정확히 같은 방식이다.북친의 공산주의는 레몬이 감귤류의 일종인 것처럼 자유사회주의의 한 형태다.B ⊃ A fi (대화) 03:50, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 그것이 자유 사회주의라고 구체적으로 말하는 RS가 필요하다.그렇지 않으면 수술실이다.에버그린피르(토크){{re}}} 03:35, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- PKK에 언급된 내용은 이를 자유사회주의의 변종인 공동체주의자로 묘사하고 있으며, 이를 저명한 자유사회주의 사회주의자 머레이 북친(Murray Bookchin)과 일치시킨다.fi (토크) 01:54, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 한 편집에서 다크스타는 스페인어 소스 추가(칠레아 정당 기사)를 "잉글리어 소스만 부탁한다"라는 편집 요약과 함께 되돌린다.그것은 정당하지 않다.우리는 출처가 영어로 되어 있을 필요가 없다.영어를 사용하지 않는 국가의 정당에 대해 쓴다면 특히 그것은 어리석은 요구처럼 보일 것이다.사용자:Maunus ·ʍaunus ·snunww·21:48, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:Finx는 당연히 틀릴 수 있다. 그것은 토론할 내용상의 문제다.단, 사용자의 주장대로 다음과 같은 경우:Darkstar1st는 의견 차이를 논하는 것이 아니라 행동 문제가 있다.최상의 선택:Rich Farmbrough, 18:45, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)
- 예를 들어, Darkstar1st에 의한 이 편집은 토크 페이지의 토론 섹션을 가리키는 편집 요약을 가지고 있다는 것을 보여준다.그러므로 나는 이 AN/I를 추구하는 것보다 기사 토크 페이지에 참여하는 것이 더 나을 것이라고 생각한다.최상의 선택:Rich Farmbrough, 18:54, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)
- 예를 들어, Darkstar1st에 의한 이 편집은 토크 페이지의 토론 섹션을 가리키는 편집 요약을 가지고 있다는 것을 보여준다.그러므로 나는 이 AN/I를 추구하는 것보다 기사 토크 페이지에 참여하는 것이 더 나을 것이라고 생각한다.최상의 선택:Rich Farmbrough, 18:54, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)
- 표면적으로는 이것은 분명히 행동적인 문제로 보인다 - 그리고 만약 다크스타1스트가 사회주의 사상의 역사적 발전에 대한 중요한 추세에 대한 언급을 위키피디아에서 모두 삭제하는 것이 적절하다고 생각한다면, 그의 목표인 것처럼, 우리는 그것에 대해 뭔가를 할 필요가 있다.Andy TheGrump (talk) 22:25, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
현재 사용자는 여전히 사방에서 전쟁과 위키와잉을 편집하고 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.리턴퐁의 15경기에 따로 들어가고 싶은 기분이 아니어서, 계속되는 파괴적 행동 패턴에 대해 누군가 뭔가 조치를 취하고 싶을 때까지 이 게임을 계속하도록 하겠다.fi (토크) 23:28, 2015년 2월 4일 (UTC)[
- 관리자 작업 권장.글쎄, 꽤 분명한 POV가 추진되고 있다.그것은 좌익 자유주의에 대한 참조를 조직적으로 삭제한 것이며, 아마도 POV가 그것이 존재하지 않으며 우파 자유 자유 자유주의만이 존재한다고 밀어붙이는 것일 것이다.따라서 그것은 명백한 패턴이 나타났듯이 사실상 파괴 행위다.좌익 자유주의에 대한 언급을 숨기지 않고 방치할 경우 그는 좌익 자유주의에 대한 을 모두 지울 수 있다
- 논평: 자유주의적인 편집자들과 기사들과 관련된 더 큰 문제가 있다.예를 들어, 자유 사회에 대한 우리의 기사에 무슨 일이 일어났는지 보라.[1] 비자유주의적인 주제인 인수합병, OR의 이런 종류의 동화가 도처에서 일어나고 있다.다크스타1st는 이런 종류의 행동에 관여하는 많은 편집자들 중 한 명일 뿐이다.비리다타스 (대화) 03:42, 2015년 2월 5일 (UTC)[
- 설명:내 생각에 문제의 일부는 사용자:Finx는 인용과 독창적인 연구에 대해 약간 모호하다. (예시 참조)이 예에서 인용 A는 그 진술을 지지하지 않았지만 인용 B는 지지했다.사용자:Finx는 인용 B가 인용 A가 아니라 인용 B가 인용 A가 되어야 한다는 것을 이해하지 못했다.원본 연구와 관련하여 사용자:Finx는 만약 어떤 정당이 사회주의라면, 자유주의/자유주의적인 가치가 있다고 말한다면, 그것은 자유주의-사회주의 정당이 된다라고 생각하는 것 같다.[같은 비영어로 된 단어는 "자유" 또는 "자유"로 번역된다.다크스타1st가 하려는 것은 이런 일을 정리하려는 것 같다.--토디1 (토크) 09:20, 2015년 2월 5일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 인신공격에 굽실거리지 않지만, ANI에 대해 "무결하다"고 비난하고 싶다면, 자유연대 기사에 당신이 보여준 절대적으로 정신적으로 무시무시한 수준의 무능함을 재검토해보자.우선, 적정 수준의 POV 전사가 도착하기 전에 이미 제시된 인용문에는 (설명된 바와 같이) 합리적인 의심을 넘어 '자유주의자'로 해석되는 '외즈귀뤼뤼끄슈'라는 단어가 사용되었다.그래서 더 이상의 인용은 필요조차 없었다.그러나 선의라고 가정할 때(그리고 합당한 것을 훨씬 넘어서) 내가 가장 먼저 한 일은 그 문제에 대해 존경받는 권위자의 인라인 영어 인용문을 더하는 것인데, 그 인용구는 도저히 더 분명해질 수 없는 것이다: "ODP, 즉 자유와 연대당은 1996년에 설립된 터키 사회주의 자유당이다."이것은 제거되었고 무시되었다.내가 이것을 지적했을 때, 그것은 당신과 POV 전사 모두에게 다시 무시되었고, 여기서 볼 수 있듯이, 동의어인 "자유자" 대신 "외즈귀루뤼끄슈"를 사용한 원래의 참조에 대한 불만이 뒤따랐다.그 반대 의견이 분명히 무너졌을 때, 위키라웨어링은 OR의 우스꽝스러운 주장으로 넘어갔다: 자유주의자라고 주장하는 정치 집단이...자유주의의내 말은, 이건 그냥 코미디야."자유주의자"와 "자유주의자"는 상호 배타적인 집단이다. 하나는 자본주의자이고, 다른 하나는 이 (그리고 실질적으로 어떤) 맥락에서든 반자본주의자다.그것은 또한 독창적인 연구가 아니다.그것은 당신이 주제에 대해 가질 수 있는 가장 기본적인 수준의 이해력이다.자유주의자들은 자유방임주의 "자유시장" 자본주의를 옹호하는 또 다른 단어로 미국에서 고립된 사용을 제외하고, 보편적으로 사회주의자를 의미한다.libsoc의 자유주의적인 한정자는 (국가-사회주의와 구별하기 위해) 사회주의 유형, 즉 자유주의 유형, 즉 자유주의의 유형을 적격이라고 할 수 있다.사회주의 정치 조직이 자유주의라고 선언할 때, 그것은 오직 한가지만을 의미한다: 자유주의 사회주의.만약 여러분이 이렇게 혼란스럽거나 이러한 주제에 대해 전혀 알지 못한다면, 다른 사람들을 "무결하다"고 부르는 대신 해명을 요구하지 않는 것이 어떨까?그리고, 어설프게 말하지만, 위키피디아에 관한 기사, 혹은 그 문제에 관한 다른 어디에서도, "외즈귀루뤼끄슈"가 진보주의로 번역되는 기사를 찾아봐 주시길 바라며, 극좌 사회주의 집단을 묘사하는 맥락에서 합리적인 번역이 되는 것은 말할 것도 없다.지금까지 당신의 기고문에서 -비사회주의 정당에 관한 것이었다면 -합리적인 생각조차 어렴풋이 닮았을 것 같은 것은 명백한 부조리를 만들어냈을 때 굳이 검증할 수 없었던 우스꽝스러운 구글 번역 오류에 근거한 것이다.fi(토크) 10:48, 2015년 2월 5일 (UTC)[
사용자에 대한 사이트 금지 제안:다크스타1길
- 보통은 자유주의 관련 기사들의 주제 금지를 권하고 싶지만, 편집자의 이력은 그가 어느 곳에서도 긍정적인 기여를 하지 않았고, 티파티 운동과 같은 다른 분야에서도 이런 식의 편집을 해왔음을 보여준다.그는 몇 년 동안 변화해 왔지만, 기사 개선보다는 갈등에 더 관심이 있는 것 같다.그래서 아마도 편집자를 금지하고 ANI에서 계속해서 그를 토론할 필요가 없도록 하는 것이 최선일 것이다.TFD (대화) 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC) 17:00[
- 다크스타1st 지원 사이트 금지.이러한 배틀그라운드 행태와 건방진 편집은 그의 관심사와 관련된 많은 기사에서 수년째 계속되고 있다.그는 멈춰야 할 많은 요청과 경고에 응답하지 못했다.그의 행동이 앞으로 나아질 것이라고 믿을 이유가 없다.나는 그가 자신에게까지 연장된 인내심을 다 소모했다고 생각한다. SpecificO talk 04:56, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 다크스타1호에 대한 어떠한 행동도 반대한다.이 불만을 제기한 편집자는 다크스타1에 의한 심각한 혼란에 대해 고의든 아니든 일관적인 주장을 펴지 못했다.내가 확인한 대부분의 편집 내용은 인용문에 의해 지지되지 않는 주장을 태그하거나 삭제하는 것이 정확하거나 최소한 그럴듯하게 보인다.그리고 편집이 논란이 되는 사례에 대해서는 그가 요청하거나 토크 페이지 토론에 참여했다.그는 영어 이외의 자원의 수용가능성에 대해 혼란스러워한 것 같다. 비록 그가 WP에 관심을 끌었어야 할 해결책이 포함되었어야 했지만 말이다.그를 WP로 끌어들이기보다는 NONENG:ANI. —싸이코넛 (대화) 08:53, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- @싸이코넛:이러한 파괴적인 행동은 관련 주제에 관한 기사에서 그러한 행위의 오랜 역사에서 가장 최근의 것일 뿐이다.이 사용자는 행동 및 소싱 정책에 대한 경고와 지침을 반복적으로 무시하거나 이해하지 못한다.그는 부정행위로 수없이 저지당했다.불행히도 상황이 더 나아질 것이라고 기대할 이유가 없다. SpecificO talk 19:29, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 반대 최악의 경우 그는 Equality_Party_(Chile)에 대한 편집 전쟁에 돌입했지만, 그것은 너무 느리게 타오르는 편집 전쟁이어서 그는 WP:3RR을 위반할 뻔하지 않았다(그리고 그는 24시간마다 시스템을 되돌리려고 하지 않았다) 그리고 검증에 실패했다고 생각했지만 제거된 부분에 태그를 사용하려고만 했다.그는 WP를 오해했다.NONENG 및 영어에 없는 소스 제거.그리고 나는 WP가 다음과 같은 경우에 주목해야 한다.노넨은 자신의 토크 페이지에서 "두 분 모두 해명해주셔서 감사하다"고 말했다.Mea culpa" 이것은 사이트반 가치와는 거리가 멀다 (나는 그것이 주제 금지 가치조차 없다고 생각한다.) --Obsidi (토크) 13:23, 2015년 2월 10일 (UTC)[
- 명확한 WP별 지원:NOTHERER "프로젝트의 실제 목적과 방법에 대한 현저한 가치 부족을 시사하는 장기적 또는 "극한" 이력이 있음"그의 편집은 WP와 흡사하다.SPA는 WP에게만 제공됨:POVPUSH 그의 견해 자유사회주의는 운동이 아니며, 따라서 자유사회주의에 대한 언급을 수많은 글에서 삭제한다. 더 나아가 그는 편집-전쟁을 사용하고 번역할 수 없는 척하며 이중편집(먼저 참조와 태깅을 제거하고 나서 실제 진술을 몇 개 삭제함)하는 기만적인 관행을 사용한다.나중에 오줌을 싸다이 모든 과정은 상당한 시간 낭비와 신랄함을 초래한다.이것은 단지 최근의 행동이 아니라 장기적인 문제야, 그의 기록을 봐.그가 없으면 WP가 더 나을 것이다. --Mrjulesd (대화) 15:38, 2015년 2월 10일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.반대 의견을 읽기 전까지는 확신할 수 없었지만, 이제 이 모든 것이 상당히 불성실하다는 것이 분명해졌고, 어떤 사람들은 누가 뭐라고 하든 이 사용자를 변호하기 위해 똑같은 허위사실을 반복하고 있다.5년은 누군가 행동을 바꿀 수 있는 충분한 시간이다. fi (토크) 06:58, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- 반대하라. 위키피디아는 사람들이 엉터리 인용에 의문을 제기할 때 가장 잘 작동한다. 그리고 그것이 다크스타1st가 해왔던 것이다.Finx와 Mr.julesd는 그것 때문에 위협을 느끼고 있고 그래서 Darkstar1st를 차단하기 위한 캠페인을 벌이고 있다.이는 잘못되었다.다양한 편집자들이 다크스타1에 대한 그들의 반대를 조사했고, 그 비난이 실제로 받아들여지지 않았다는 것을 발견했다.Mr Julesd는 위키피디아에서 다크스타1st가 전쟁을 편집했다고 주장했다.관리자 알림판/3RRArchive271#사용자:사용자가 Darkstar1st 보고:Mrjulesd(결과: 거절, WP:ANI) 그러나 내가 혐의를 조사했을 때 다크스타1스트에 대한 사건은 과장되어 있었고, 핀크스와 미스터 줄스드는 문제의 페이지에서 다크스타1스트만큼 편집-워링을 했고, 이들 중 3번 되돌리기 규칙을 어긴 사람은 하나도 없었다.POV 추진에 대한 비난에 대해서는 - Finx와 Mrjulesd는 다음과 같은 진술을 한다: "비마르크주의 공산주의자들은 일반적으로 자유주의자로 알려져 있다"!--- Toddy1 (대화) 08:49, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- (자유주의적 공산주의라는 무정부주의자에 관한 기사에서 설명했듯이) 맥락에서 완전하고 검증가능하게 사실인 그 인용구에 대한 맥락에 대해, 이 논의의 실마리를 자유주의에 관한 기사에서 libsoc을 제거하고자 하는 다크스타1st가 시작한 것을 보라.ANI, AFAIK fi (토크) 09:39, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[하라에서 본 후에야 이 문제에 개입했던 Mr Julesd와 모종의 음모를 꾸민다는 것은 정말 우스운 일이다.
- 우리가 모두 틀렸는지 봐봐. 그는 정말로 ANI에 와서 그의 입장을 옹호하고, 그의 편집 패턴에 대해 설명을 해야 해.이건 심각한 혐의인데, 여기 입력 부족은 분명히 불만족스러운 겁니다. --Mrjulesd (대화) 11:58, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.우리가 정말 이 문제를 5년 동안 논의해 왔을까?결정을 내리기에 충분한 시간인 것 같아.비리다타스 (대화) 08:57, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- WP 지원:스탠더드오프(STANDOFFER)가 복권될 경우 당연히 주제가 금지될 것이다.누군가가 그렇게 분명하게 WP를 한다면:그 메세지를 전달하기 위해서가 아니라, 그는 지속적인 금지가 필요하다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 09:53, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- 반대, 왜 사람들은 다크스타1이 아무런 언급도 없는 정치적 꼬리표를 제거했다고 불평하는가?핀x는 참조나 불량 참조가 없는 라벨을 추가하고 있어, 핀x는 다크스타1스트가 아니라 정책을 어기고 있다.스푸무크 (talq) 12:19, 2015년 2월 11일 (UTC)[하라
- 사회주의 그룹에 관한 많은 기사들은 오래되었고 언급이 거의 없다.당신의 첫 번째 예인 사회당(네덜란드, 인터벨럼)은 전적으로 비협조적이다.다크스타1st는 사회주의에 관한 기사를 개선하기는커녕 자유주의와 사회주의가 양립할 수 없다고 보고 그 안에 있는 자유주의자에 대한 언급을 아예 없애기로 했다.그는 또한 위에서 언급한 바와 같이 텍스트를 삭제하기 전에 출처를 삭제했으며, 믿을 수 있는 출처가 외국 집단을 자유주의자라고 부를 때 부정확한 번역을 사용하고 있다고 주장한다.그러나 ANI에서 하나가 옳다고 말하는 것은 변호할 수 없다 - 그것은 관련 콘텐츠 게시판에서 결정되어야 할 콘텐츠의 문제다.옳든 그르든 편집자들은 다른 사람들과 협력해서 일해야 하는데, 다크스타1은 이 일을 격렬하게 거부한다.TFD (대화) 05:09, 2015년 2월 12일 (UTC)[
- 반대 드라코니안 해결책은 매우 드물게 현명하며, 나는 이것이 예외라는 증거가 없다고 본다.위키피디아는 이질적인 의견의 편집자들을 제거함으로써 이익을 얻지 못하며, 나는 이것이 그 교훈으로부터 예외가 되어야 할 이유도 없다고 본다.수집(대화) 11:56, 2015년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 지원 주제 금지 일부 편집이 기술적으로 규칙에 위배되지 않더라도(예: 비협조 삭제) 규칙은 원칙이며, 더 큰 영향은 파괴적이며 위키 개선을 의도하지 않았다.ηoian )[:02,iersiersiersiersiersiersiers12:02, 2015년 2월 15일 (UTC)[응답
- 코멘트 이것은 불협화음의 길을 갈 것으로 보인다.양쪽 주장이 서로 문제가 있다면 ArbCom이 더 좋을까?ηianianewewewewew 18 18 18 1818:15, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC]
- 평론 보통은 나도 네 말에 동의하지만, 그의 이력을 보았어?아래의 "과거 중단 예"의 내용을 참조하십시오.이것은 장기간의 학대다. --Mrjulesd (대화) 22:14, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 반대: 정직한 편집자들을 일상적으로 금지시키는 것이 합의 풀에서 그들을 제거하기 위한 전술로 사용되어, 몇몇 기사에서 정치적 동기를 부여한 편향에 대한 헌신적인 소수의 의견 일치를 이끌어 낸다는 것은 약간의 연구에서 명백하다.이 시도는 이 노력의 또 다른 예에 불과하다.Blue Eyes Cryin (talk) 21:43, 2015년 2월 15일 (UTC) — Blue Eyes Cryin (talk • 기여) 이 주제 이외의 다른 편집은 거의 또는 전혀 없었다.
- 사용자:BlueEyesCryin은 단일 목적 계정인 것 같아 WP에 따라 태그가 적절한 것 같다.SPA. El duderino 21:16, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트 지금까지 당신이 한 모든 것은 토크에 기여했다.자유주의, 사용자의 적극적인 관심사:다크스타1길그리고 당신은 그의 견해를 지지한다.저것과 두 명의 사용자공간 게시물, 그리고 여기 이 게시물.사용자:다크스타1st?양말 장부와 많이 닮았다.아마도 WP:SPI가 관심을 가질 것이다. --Mrjulesd (대화) 23:09, 2015년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 그런 다음 WP와 함께 살펴보십시오.SPI. 어쩌면 너도 내가 위에서 지적한 정치적 동기의 편향에 대한 공감대를 강화하면서 나를 금지시키는 데 성공할지도 모른다.블루아이즈 크라이인 (대화) 23:47, 2015년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- "아마도 네가 나를 금지시키는 데 성공할 거야"라고 인정하는 거야?네가 잘못하고 있다는 것을 깨닫지 못하니?정치적 견해를 갖는 것과 자신의 명분을 위해 WP 기사를 편향시키려는 것은 완전히 별개다.WP를 원할 경우:RIGHTGREATWRONGS 잘못된 곳에 계신 겁니다. --Mrjuled (대화) 00:13, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 너의 거짓되고 부정한 비난과 왕따 전술은 내게 통하지 않을 것이다.평화가 함께 하기를.블루 아이즈 크라이인 (대화) 00:29, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 최근의 행동이라고 생각하는 사람이 있을 경우, 기록 보관소를 살펴보십시오 [2].다음은 몇 가지 선택 예시.
- 이 금지를 지지하라, 다크스타1st는 논쟁적인 주제에 대해 중립적으로 편집할 수 없다.나는 그들의 이름을 (관련된?)의 일부로 본 기억이 난다.티파티 아르브콤 절차에서는, 그들은 직접적인 제재를 면한 것처럼 보였지만, 그 포함을 분명한 경고로 받아들였어야 했다.엘두데리노 20:43, 2015년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 유감스러운 지원 다른 모든 조치들은 다크스타가 가식적인 편집을 저지하는 데 실패했다.사이트 금지는 그에게서 더 이상의 혼란을 막을 것이며, 또한 미래의 편집자들이 이와 유사한 길을 따르지 못하게 할 것이다.Steletrap (대화) 04:26, 2015년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 반대는 편집이 잘못되었다는 것을 아무도 보여주지 않았다.만약 우리가 사람들이 WP가 되기를 원한다면:대담하고 WP 필요:RS와 공급되지 않은 재료의 제거는 일반적인 관행이어야 한다 - 우리가 왜 공급되지 않은 쓰레기를 보관하는지는 내가 알 수 없지만, 아무도 그것을 제거하지 못하게 하면 안 된다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 02:10, 2015년 2월 18일 (UTC)[하라
- 반대 - 나는 카를로스 S를 반향한다.다크스타1에 대한 증거 중 일부는 세계사회당(World Social Party)의 상장을 "자유주의적 사회주의"로 수정하려는 그의 시도와 관련이 있다. WSP는 마르크스주의자, 그렇다.그것은 옵티머스빌리스트 전통의 일부분인데, 여러분께서 그 개념을 잘 아시는 분들을 위해서입니다.그것은 심지어 "반레닌주의자"라고 불릴 수도 있고, 확실히 소련식 사회주의에 비판적인 역할을 했다.하지만 "자유주의적 사회주의"?방금 WP 작품인 Libertarian Marxism을 보았는데, 위키백과에서 본 가장 큰 독창적인 연구 BS 중 하나이다.DS1이 한 모든 것은 WSP. 쿠도스의 분류를 위해 "초청 필요" 템플릿을 게시한 것이다.만약 내가 그 작품을 편집하고 있었다면 나는 그것을 완전히 제거했을 것이다.요컨대, 이것은 진정한 NOTEREER 문제를 다루기 보다는 불편한 편집자의 스팀롤 냄새가 난다.나는 어떤 것도 사이트 금지 수준으로 올라가지 않는 것을 본다.카라이트 (대화) 2015년 2월 18일 (UTC) 16:35 [
- 반대하지만 짧은 끈으로 공격한다.기사에서 싸우는 비영어권 출처를 편집하는 것은, 그들이 주장된 것을 말하지 않는 한, 특별히 좋은 생각은 아니다. --SerkOfVulcan (대화) 17:10, 2015년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
보관에서 이 섹션 복원: 관리자 주의 요청
보관된 위키백과에서 이 섹션을 복원했다.관리자_noticeboard/IncidentArchive872#사용자:다크스타1st_on_a_site-wide_purge_of_any_mention_of_.22자유주의_사회주의.22 그는 그의 오래된 속임수로 돌아왔다: 자유주의적 사회주의에 대한 언급은 삭제했다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Equality_Party_%28Chile%29&diff=prev&oldid=646028069
그는 이전에 이러한 이데올로기에 대한 언급을 삭제하고 꼬리표를 달았으며, 지금은 이런 꼬리표를 달지 않은 척하면서 사회주의 자유주의적인 자유주의를 없애고 있다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Equality_Party_%28Chile%29&diff=645713026&oldid=645692112
나는 그가 현재 진행중인 편집 전쟁 때문에 그를 신고했다.위키백과:관리자_noticeboard/Edit_warring#사용자:Darkstar1st_reported_by_User:Mr Julesd_.28결과:_29
원래의 차이점도 보십시오.그의 편집에 확실한 POV 패턴이 있어, 나는 관리 작업을 요청한다.
--Mrjulesd (대화) 13:33, 2015년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 참고: 나는 다크스타1st를 초대하여 이 대화에 참여하게 하고, 토론이 현재 차단되고 있는 방향으로 나아가고 있음을 알려주었다. -- The Anome (대화) 14:52, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 100개의 기사를 바꾸고 있는지, 그가 좋은 정책적 이유로 그렇게 하고 있는지 신경 쓰지 않는다.논쟁의 여지가 있는 주장에 대한 출처를 묻는 것은 괜찮다(그것이 그의 편집의 대부분이었다).그는 Equality_Party_(Chile)에 대한 편집 전쟁에 휘말렸다.그건 틀렸어, 그가 돌아온 후에 토크 페이지로 갔어야 했어.그는 외국어로 사이트에 제공된 내용을 삭제했는데 삭제하기 전에 이의를 제기했다면 번역을 요청했어야 했다.그 외에 문제점이 보이지 않는 --Obsidi (대화) 18:28, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 그건 POV 푸셔 같지 않아?많은 사회주의 정당에서 "자유주의자"에 대한 언급을 삭제하는 것?그리고 그게 그가 해왔던 전부야.그리고 그가 무시하고 있는 충분한 언급이 있다.자유주의적 사회주의에 대한 무거운 POV를 제안하는 그의 편집에는 마치 그것이 존재하는 것을 싫어하는 것처럼 분명한 패턴이 있다. --Mrjulesd (대화) 19:47, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- WP:POVPUSH
자신의 개인적 신념에 부합하는 기사에서 POV를 편집하는 것이 반드시 POV 푸싱은 아니다.
그가 무시하고 있는 참고인이 있다면, 먼저 그것을 알고 있는지 확인하고, 그가 계속하면 행동 문제가 된다.여러 페이지에 걸쳐서라도 소스를 요구하고 (소스가 제공될 때까지) 비소싱 라벨을 제거하는 것은 문제가 되기에 충분치 않다.만약 그가 반복적으로, 특히 가장자리의 재료를 추가하거나, POV가 추진하는 것보다 훨씬 더 문제가 될 부분을 확장하고 있다면, --Obsidi (토크) 01:55, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- WP:POVPUSH
- 편집자는 소스에 대해 "요청"한 다음 제공될 때, 또는 정확하고 이미 존재하는 소스에 대한 설명이 제공되었을 때 삭제했다. fi (토크) 21:17, 2015년 2월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 출처가 영어로 되어 있지 않기 때문에 출처를 제공한 후에도 삭제한 몇 가지를 보았다.그건 틀렸다.그리고 만약 그가 계속 그것을 제거한다면, 그는 그것이 영어로 되어 있지 않다고 해서 그가 소스 자료를 제거할 수 없다는 것을 인정할 때까지 차단되어야 한다.지금까지 영어가 아니어서 다른 언어에서 인용한 것을 제거하는 것을 보았지만, 다시 추가되고 나서는 계속 제거하지 않은 것 같다(블록이 아직 그것에 적합하지 않다는 뜻). --Obsidi(토크) 01:57, 2015년 2월 9일(UTC)[
- ... 이 기사의 직설적인 내용을 기술한 영어 정보원들도 제거했다.각각 10여 개의 개별 기사에 대해 최대 6~7개의 반전이 있었다.정치적 POV 전사들에 의한 무분별한 대량 삭제는 적어도 IMO의 완전한 주제 금지를 요구하고 있다. 하지만 나는 TFD에 동의하고 싶다. 이 경우 그것이 너무 관대할지도 모른다.솔직히 미국 자유주의자들이 사이트 전체의 문제라고 지적한 편집자는 정곡을 찔렀다.나는 여기서 그렇게 많은 문제를 반복적으로 일으키거나, USLP 마케팅 캠페인과 다소 상상의 관계가 있는 어떤 것을 뻔뻔스럽게 전용하고 회복하는데 그렇게 많은 시간을 소비하는 다른 정치 집단에 대해서는 알지 못한다.문제는 내가 보기에 종교 광신이다.fi (토크) 03:45, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[하라
- 당신은 그가 "그 기사가 단어로 말한 것을 영어로 쓴 출처를 제거했다"고 말한 사람들에게 다른 것을 제공할 수 있는가?기사도 다르고 편집도 여러 가지가 있는데, 지금까지 이 실에 올라오는 디프트를 다 겪어봤다. --Obsidi (토크) 06:17, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- surefi (대화) 06:26, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 디프트에 인용된 출처 링크를 따라가서 "아라드arğınnzz sayfa sistemde kaytltl de deildildir"라는 터키어를 받았는데 "System is not register in the page you want"라는 뜻의 "System is not registered on the page"는 다른 것을 받았니?아, 그렇구나, 네가 그 책에 대한 참고문헌에 대해 말하는 거(그는 그 책에 대한 참고문헌만 삭제한 게 아니야) 나는 그가 왜 그랬는지 잘 모르겠어, 그건 아닌 것 같아.그의 편집요약서는 그가 이상한 터키어 페이지 미발견 메시지에 대해 편집한 나머지 두 가지 편집 내용과 관련이 있는 것으로 보인다. --Obsidi (토크) 07:00, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 그는 그것이 그 진술을 뒷받침하지 않는다고 느꼈을 것이다.위키피디아의 본문은 "당내에서 두드러진 집단은 2007년 자유사회주의 플랫폼의 분열에 따라 결성된 혁명연대(옛 데브림치 욜(혁명 경로) - 일명 데브욜(Dev-Yol)"이다.그러나 이 소식통은 다만 "지금 자유사회주의 플랫폼으로 불리는 델 욜의 잔재도 ODP의 일원이 된다"고만 말한다.마지막이지만 (혹은 최소한 모든 문장을 지지하지는 않는다.) --Obsidi (토크) 07:15, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 디프트에 인용된 출처 링크를 따라가서 "아라드arğınnzz sayfa sistemde kaytltl de deildildir"라는 터키어를 받았는데 "System is not register in the page you want"라는 뜻의 "System is not registered on the page"는 다른 것을 받았니?아, 그렇구나, 네가 그 책에 대한 참고문헌에 대해 말하는 거(그는 그 책에 대한 참고문헌만 삭제한 게 아니야) 나는 그가 왜 그랬는지 잘 모르겠어, 그건 아닌 것 같아.그의 편집요약서는 그가 이상한 터키어 페이지 미발견 메시지에 대해 편집한 나머지 두 가지 편집 내용과 관련이 있는 것으로 보인다. --Obsidi (토크) 07:00, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- surefi (대화) 06:26, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 그가 "그 기사가 단어로 말한 것을 영어로 쓴 출처를 제거했다"고 말한 사람들에게 다른 것을 제공할 수 있는가?기사도 다르고 편집도 여러 가지가 있는데, 지금까지 이 실에 올라오는 디프트를 다 겪어봤다. --Obsidi (토크) 06:17, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- ... 이 기사의 직설적인 내용을 기술한 영어 정보원들도 제거했다.각각 10여 개의 개별 기사에 대해 최대 6~7개의 반전이 있었다.정치적 POV 전사들에 의한 무분별한 대량 삭제는 적어도 IMO의 완전한 주제 금지를 요구하고 있다. 하지만 나는 TFD에 동의하고 싶다. 이 경우 그것이 너무 관대할지도 모른다.솔직히 미국 자유주의자들이 사이트 전체의 문제라고 지적한 편집자는 정곡을 찔렀다.나는 여기서 그렇게 많은 문제를 반복적으로 일으키거나, USLP 마케팅 캠페인과 다소 상상의 관계가 있는 어떤 것을 뻔뻔스럽게 전용하고 회복하는데 그렇게 많은 시간을 소비하는 다른 정치 집단에 대해서는 알지 못한다.문제는 내가 보기에 종교 광신이다.fi (토크) 03:45, 2015년 2월 9일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 그가 출처가 영어로 되어 있지 않기 때문에 출처를 제공한 후에도 삭제한 몇 가지를 보았다.그건 틀렸다.그리고 만약 그가 계속 그것을 제거한다면, 그는 그것이 영어로 되어 있지 않다고 해서 그가 소스 자료를 제거할 수 없다는 것을 인정할 때까지 차단되어야 한다.지금까지 영어가 아니어서 다른 언어에서 인용한 것을 제거하는 것을 보았지만, 다시 추가되고 나서는 계속 제거하지 않은 것 같다(블록이 아직 그것에 적합하지 않다는 뜻). --Obsidi(토크) 01:57, 2015년 2월 9일(UTC)[
Darkstar1st의 사이트 금지 가능성에 대해 위에서 논의가 있다."사용자를 위한 사이트 금지 제안:다크스타1"거기서 의견을 제시하십시오. --Mrjulesd (대화) 02:06, 2015년 2월 10일 (UTC)[
Tony Abbott 1R 흡수 기사 편집 전쟁 활성화
| 닫힘 | |
| 실제로, 사용자가 WP에서 24시간 동안 차단되었다.NEW. --IJBall (대화) 07:43, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이미 토크 페이지당 1RR의 대상이 되고 있는 토니 애벗에 대한 편집 전쟁이 활발히 벌어지고 있다.관리자가 좀 더 냉정해지도록 참가자들을 차단해 주시겠습니까?kthxbye --Surturz (대화) 05:55, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[하라
사용자:Patrick938
| 닫힘 | |
| 계정이 무기한 차단됨."제임스"라는 가명을 사용하는 편집자BWatson" (대화) 11:58, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 사용자는 자작 블로그 게시물의 참고자료로 자신에 대한(?)에 대한 불분명한 홍보 기사를 3차례나 만들려고 시도했다.처음 두 사람은 사가라나였고, 지금은 사가라나 컴퓨터 프로그래머였다.빠른 삭제를 위해 페이지에 태그를 지정했지만 사용자:Patrick938이 제거함: [4] 사용자가 태그를 빠르게 삭제한 이력이 있으며 이미 경고를 받은 바 있음: [5] ☃ 유니코드나우만 (토크) 08:55, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
차바드 기사에 대한 절차가 준수되지 않음
차바드 랍비스와 관련된 호주에서 주목할 만한 법적 스캔들이 있은 후, 비교적 새로운 사용자인 Vaneman(대화·기여)이 차바드 기사에 상당한 단락을 추가했는데, 후에 그가 정당하게 새로운 섹션으로 바뀐 것이 바로 그것이다.[7] 조금 후에 그는 앞부분과 거의 같은 길이의 단락을 선두에 추가했다.[8] 나는 그 편집을 되돌려서, 그것이 납자료가 아니라고 주장하였다.[9] 차바드가 250여 년의 역사를 가진 세계적인 조직이라는 사실에 착안하여 나중에 나는 이 주장을 두 번째 되돌리기로 좀더 자세히 설명했다.[10]
VanMan의 토크 페이지에 게시된 후 [11][12] 편집 전쟁이 중단되었고, Talk:차바드#Child_sexual_abuse.나는 나중에 편집 전쟁을 중단하고 토론을 시작한 바네만에게 감사를 표했다.[13]
그 후 갑자기 사용자 Murry1975 (talk · concerations)가 나타나서 논의 중인 텍스트를 복원했다.[14] 그는 토론이 그 직전에 시작되었고 지금까지 3명의 편집자(Vaneman, 나와 그)만이 의견을 표명했다는 사실을 무시하고 이렇게 했다.그 자신도 토론에서 그 단락이 분명히 선두에 서기에는 너무 길다는 데 동의했다는 것은 말할 것도 없었다.[15]
나는 토크 페이지 토론에서 이 복원이 절차에 어긋난다고 몇 번 주장했지만, Murry1975는 그 주장을 완전히 무시한다.그는 나를 WP로 고발할 필요성을 느끼고 있다.관측 중단, WP:IDLI, WP:COI 및 WP:CHAMDOWN(이러한 순서에 반드시 해당하지는 마십시오.단지 Murry1975는 초보 편집자가 아니라는 것을 언급할 뿐이다.나는 또한 그의 토크 페이지[16]에 공식적인 분쟁 해결을 피할 수 있는지 보기 위해 좋은 글을 하나 올렸다.불행히도, 무리1975가 그 새롭고 큰 단락을 복원했어야 하는지에 대한 내 이해가 틀렸거나, 아니면 무리1975가 이성에 굴복하기를 거부했거나 둘 중 하나이다.
논의 중인 단락을 복원하는 것이 여러 가지 이유로 인해 잘못된 전화였다는 사실을 누군가 머리로1975년을 지목해 주셨으면 한다.게다가, 물론, 나는 우리가 이 주제를 전혀 주도적으로 그리고 만약 그렇다면, 어느 정도까지 언급해야 하는지에 대한 합의가 나올 때까지 누군가가 그것을 다시 제거해 주기를 바란다.대화) 22:22, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[]
- (비관리자 의견) 선호 버전을 시행하기 위해 관리자가 도구를 잘못 사용하도록 요청하지 않는 한 WP:분산 해결책을 찾고 있다고 생각한다.이반벡터 (대화) 22:52, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 이반벡터 1.잘못된 통화에 대해 다른 편집자를 꾸짖거나 되돌리는 것은 관리 도구를 포함하지 않는다. 2.내 경험상 상당한 것은, 분쟁 전 버전으로 되돌리는 것은 관리자가 선택할 수도 있고 선택하지 않을 수도 있는 정상적인 단계라는 점이다.어떤 경우에도 그것은 분명히 '잘못된' 선택은 아닐 것이다.3. 아니, 나는 머리의 다음 절차들을 검토하기 위해 행정관을 위해 이곳에 왔다.WP:DR은 모든 편집자들이 따라야 할 규칙이 있다는 것을 상기하는 즉시, 우리가 대화 페이지에서 논의할 수 있는 분쟁 자체에 관한 것일 것이다.대화) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 23:12,
- (비관리자 논평) 지금 이 순간부로 데브레서, 기사에 대한 가장 최근의 편집은 당신의 것이니까, 당신의 불만이 무엇인지 정확히 알 수 없다.Erpertblah, blah, blah... 00:23, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 나도 본문을 단축시킬 수 있다는 머리의 노골적인 동의로 만들었다.부탁이 2개 있었는데, 1개.논의 중인 단락을 복원하는 것이 여러 가지 이유로 인해 잘못된 전화였다는 사실을 누군가 머리로1975년을 지목해 주셨으면 한다.2나는 우리가 이 주제에 대해 전혀 언급해야 할 것 같은 공감대가 형성될 때까지, 그리고 만약 그렇다면, 어떤 길이로든 간에 누군가 그 텍스트를 선두에서 삭제해 주었으면 한다.Debresser (talk) 05:12, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) 지금 이 순간부로 데브레서, 기사에 대한 가장 최근의 편집은 당신의 것이니까, 당신의 불만이 무엇인지 정확히 알 수 없다.Erpertblah, blah, blah... 00:23, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 우리의 의견 차이점은 내가 이 자료를 가지고 있다는 것은 다른 두 편집자들이 그렇게 생각하는 반면, 선두에 오를 만큼 충분히 주목할 만한 것은 아니라는 것이다.그들은 쇼트닝을 해도 괜찮았다.논의는 머리가 (당시에는 여전히 짧아지지 않은) 단락을 선두로 복원함으로써 중단되었다.내 입장은 머리가 그 상황에서 그것이 잘못된 행동이었다는 것을 알아야 한다는 것이고, 그렇다, 나는 그가 그의 잘못된 절차 복원을 취소하기를 원한다.WP:BRD는 입증책임이 누구에게 있는지 명백하다.토론 중간에 일방적 조치를 취하는 것은 매우 무례한 행동이라는 것은 말할 것도 없다.위에 열거한 바와 같이 그의 이후의 근거 없는 비난도 용납할 수 없다.(대화) 13:27, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
사용자:C.Syde65 Loves Me!
안녕
User:C의 사칭으로 차단할 수 있을까?Syde65. 상각(T)(C) 22:38, 2015년 2월 19일(UTC)[
- {subst:대화 페이지에 있는 ANI-Note} 템플릿위거룬너(대화) 22:41, 2015년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 사용자가 무기한 차단됨.나콘 22:42, 2015년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 명백한 누군가의 양말이지만 나는 그것을 목록에 추가할 SPI를 찾을 수 없다.상각(T)(C) 22:46, 2015년 2월 19일(UTC)[
- 이 사용자에 속하는 다른 양말 양말 양말 양말의 목록은 여기에서 확인할 수 있다.그들은 나와 심스위키 편집자 몇 명에게 폐를 끼치고 있다.그 이후로, 그들은 나와 다른 심스위키 편집자를 위키백과에서 추적해 왔다.그들은 또한 ModtheSims에서 나를 추적했고, 내가 기여하는 다양한 위키, 그리고 내 시험 위키도 추적했다.
- 나는 이미 이 사용자를 위키피디아 직원에게 보고해야 했다.내 시험 위키에서 이 사용자와 그들의 양말 퍼펫을 차단할 수 있고, 모더심스의 무시 목록에 추가할 수 있다.하지만 그것 말고는 나 혼자서는 감당하기 힘든 상황이다. - CSyde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 20일 00:41, (UTC)[
- 속보 보고서를 제출하고 체크유저를 참여시켜 기본 IP가 차단되도록 해야 한다. --Dianna (토크) 02:30, 2015년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이미 그를 위키피디아 직원에게 보고했고, 그의 IP 주소는 위키피디아에 관한 그의 계정 중 일부와 함께 위키피디아 네트워크를 통해 차단되었다.하지만 나는 이것이 위키피디아 네트워크에서 편집하는 그의 능력에 영향을 미치는지 모르겠다.또한 내가 본 바로는 1) 두 개 이상의 IP 주소에서 편집하거나, 2) IP 주소가 동적이거나, 3) Wikia 직원이 로그인하는 동안 편집이 불가능할 정도로 IP 범위를 비활성화하지 않았다.누가 알겠는가?내 생각엔 우리가 그의 모든 계정을 차단해야 할 것 같아.지루할 것 같지만, 몇 달 전에 위키피디아 직원으로부터 받은 메시지에 따르면, 결국 도움이 된다. -- C.Syde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 20일 03:00 (UTC)[
- 위키백과 참조:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive872#장기적 파괴적 편집자 및 위키백과에 의한 지속적인 괴롭힘, 삭푸피트리 및 파괴 행위:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive872#장기파괴 편집자에 의한 지속적인 괴롭힘, 삭푸페트리 및 공공 기물 파괴 행위 - 다시.이 사용자는 몇 달, 몇 년은 아니더라도 몇 달째 사용하고 있다. --나는 k6kaTalk to me!See what I have done 03:49, 2015년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이미 그를 위키피디아 직원에게 보고했고, 그의 IP 주소는 위키피디아에 관한 그의 계정 중 일부와 함께 위키피디아 네트워크를 통해 차단되었다.하지만 나는 이것이 위키피디아 네트워크에서 편집하는 그의 능력에 영향을 미치는지 모르겠다.또한 내가 본 바로는 1) 두 개 이상의 IP 주소에서 편집하거나, 2) IP 주소가 동적이거나, 3) Wikia 직원이 로그인하는 동안 편집이 불가능할 정도로 IP 범위를 비활성화하지 않았다.누가 알겠는가?내 생각엔 우리가 그의 모든 계정을 차단해야 할 것 같아.지루할 것 같지만, 몇 달 전에 위키피디아 직원으로부터 받은 메시지에 따르면, 결국 도움이 된다. -- C.Syde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 20일 03:00 (UTC)[
- 속보 보고서를 제출하고 체크유저를 참여시켜 기본 IP가 차단되도록 해야 한다. --Dianna (토크) 02:30, 2015년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 명백한 누군가의 양말이지만 나는 그것을 목록에 추가할 SPI를 찾을 수 없다.상각(T)(C) 22:46, 2015년 2월 19일(UTC)[
- 사용자가 무기한 차단됨.나콘 22:42, 2015년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
@C.Syde65: 위키백과와 위키백과는 다른 서버에서 호스팅되는 두 개의 다른 웹사이트이기 때문에 위키백과의 블록은 여기 위키백과에서 제로 효과를 발휘한다.
SPI는 시간이 있을 때 직접 접수할 수도 있다. --나는 k6ka 12See what I have done:19, 2015년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
- 사용자의 IP 범위가 Sims wiki 편집에 차단되었다.나는 시험 위키에서 이 동작을 반복했다.로그인한 후에도 여전히 IP 주소에서 편집이 가능한 것 같은데, 이는 마치 범위 블록을 돌아다니는 듯한 인상을 준다. -- C.Syde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 22일 10시 10분 (UTC)[하라
- 그것은 위키백과가 아니라 위키백과이기 때문이다.두 개의 다른 웹사이트라는 것을 기억하라. --나는 k6ka 13See what I have done:01, 2015년 2월 22일 (UTC)[하라
- 사용자의 IP 범위가 Sims wiki 편집에 차단되었다.나는 시험 위키에서 이 동작을 반복했다.로그인한 후에도 여전히 IP 주소에서 편집이 가능한 것 같은데, 이는 마치 범위 블록을 돌아다니는 듯한 인상을 준다. -- C.Syde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 22일 10시 10분 (UTC)[하라
- 알아. 내가 생각하고 있던 것은 만약 위키피디아가 그의 IP 범위를 차단한다면, 그가 여기서 우리를 방해하는 것을 막을지도 모른다는 거야.그가 여기서 하는 일이 위키에서 하는 일보다 훨씬 더 짜증난다.왜냐하면 그가 내 시험위키에서 나를 방해하려고 하면 내가 막아버릴 것이 뻔하고, 그가 심스위키에서 누구라도 방해하려고 하면 관리자 중 한 명이 그를 저지할 것이기 때문이다. -- CSyde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 22일 (UTC) 19:50 [
- IP 범위 블록은 사람들이 블록을 우회하기 위해 다른 범위의 프록시를 사용하는 것을 막지는 않는다.둘째로, 이 사용자가 단순히 성가시게만 하는 것이 아니라, 상황의 심각성을 제대로 이해하고 있는지 잘 모르겠다.법률상의 문제로 인해 많은 개정안이 숨겨져야 했다.나는 legalwikimedia.org
으로 이메일을 보냈지만 아무런 답장을 받지 못했어.
- IP 범위 블록은 사람들이 블록을 우회하기 위해 다른 범위의 프록시를 사용하는 것을 막지는 않는다.둘째로, 이 사용자가 단순히 성가시게만 하는 것이 아니라, 상황의 심각성을 제대로 이해하고 있는지 잘 모르겠다.법률상의 문제로 인해 많은 개정안이 숨겨져야 했다.나는 legalwikimedia.org
- 알아. 내가 생각하고 있던 것은 만약 위키피디아가 그의 IP 범위를 차단한다면, 그가 여기서 우리를 방해하는 것을 막을지도 모른다는 거야.그가 여기서 하는 일이 위키에서 하는 일보다 훨씬 더 짜증난다.왜냐하면 그가 내 시험위키에서 나를 방해하려고 하면 내가 막아버릴 것이 뻔하고, 그가 심스위키에서 누구라도 방해하려고 하면 관리자 중 한 명이 그를 저지할 것이기 때문이다. -- CSyde (토크 콘트롤) 2015년 2월 22일 (UTC) 19:50 [
- 오, 그리고 시험위키에 대해 그만 좀 언급해 줄래?웹의 작은 구석에서 네가 뭘 하든 아무도 신경 안 써더 중요한 것은 여기서 무슨 일이 벌어지는가이다.--나는 k6ka 22See what I have done:35, 2015년 2월 22일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 그 문제의 심각성을 이해한다.내 가장 큰 두려움은 그들이 어떻게든 위키피디아 직원들을 속일 수 있을까 하는 것이지 우리가 그들을 사칭하고 있다고 믿게 할 수는 없을까 하는 것이었다.계정 "C.시데55"는 위키피디아 직원에게 부탁했기 때문에 전 세계적으로 장애인이 되었다.그 사기꾼이 나를 때려눕혔다면 어떻게 되었을지 생각해 봐.
- 사용자들이 짜증만 내는 것이 아니라 아무것도 하지 않는 한, 그리고 그들이 하는 정말 나쁜 일들이 대중의 눈에서 지워진다면, 그것은 치명적일 수 없을 것이다, 그렇지 않은가?나는 여기서 IP 프록시가 금지되어 있다는 것을 완전히 알지 못했다.내 시험 위키를 언급해서는 안 된다는 것을 알지만, 나는 다른 참고자료가 필요하다고 느꼈다. - CSyde (토크 contracties) 2015년 2월 23일 07:00 ()[응답
- @C.Syde65: Wikia 스태프는 멍청하지 않다.1개 있으니까.크로스위키 반달리즘의 역사도 없고, 2번도 없다.나는 이미 그들에게 수많은 양말 퍼펫을 신고했다. 만약 누군가가 당신의 것과 유사한 사용자 이름을 가지고 나타난다면, 당신이 당신의 계정이라고 공개적으로 밝히지 않는 한, 당신은 차단되지 않을 것이다.CheckUser는 당신의 계정이 아니라는 것을 증명할 것이다.만약 당신이 토크를 하지 않았다면, 그것은 CU가 99%의 시간을 증명할 것이다.
- 다시 말하지만, 이것이 "치명적"이 아니라고 말하는 것은 이 상황의 진정한 심각성을 이해하는 것이 아니다.문제는 신체적 학대가 아니라 정신적 학대와 온라인 괴롭힘으로, 이 때문에 종종 감시망에 오르내린다.우리는 Wikimedia의 법률 부서에 이메일을 보내야 하는 지경에 이르렀다.그게 어떻게 "아무것도 안되면 치명적일 수 없어"?여기서 문제는 사용자가 살인을 저지르는 것이 아니라 온라인 사용자들을 사이버 폭력으로 괴롭히는 것이다.사이버 왕따는 괜찮지 않고, 가볍게 여겨서는 안 된다.정신적, 정서적 학대는 시간이 걸리고 다른 사람들에게 즉각적으로 드러나지 않으며 심지어 인터넷을 통해서도 그렇게 되지 않는다.지금 아무런 증상도 보이지 않는 사람은 10년이나 15년 후에 그런 증상을 보일 수 있다.우리는 이 사용자들에게 사이버 폭력은 괜찮지 않으며 그들이 지금 하고 있는 것이 결과를 가져올 것이라는 것을 보여주기 위해 여기에 왔다.짜증나?그래, 진심이야?당연하지. --나는 k6kaTalk to me!See what I have done 15:41, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과:Sockpuppet 조사/K6kaisockpuppett. --i am k6ka 18See what I have done:03, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- 다시 말하지만, 이것이 "치명적"이 아니라고 말하는 것은 이 상황의 진정한 심각성을 이해하는 것이 아니다.문제는 신체적 학대가 아니라 정신적 학대와 온라인 괴롭힘으로, 이 때문에 종종 감시망에 오르내린다.우리는 Wikimedia의 법률 부서에 이메일을 보내야 하는 지경에 이르렀다.그게 어떻게 "아무것도 안되면 치명적일 수 없어"?여기서 문제는 사용자가 살인을 저지르는 것이 아니라 온라인 사용자들을 사이버 폭력으로 괴롭히는 것이다.사이버 왕따는 괜찮지 않고, 가볍게 여겨서는 안 된다.정신적, 정서적 학대는 시간이 걸리고 다른 사람들에게 즉각적으로 드러나지 않으며 심지어 인터넷을 통해서도 그렇게 되지 않는다.지금 아무런 증상도 보이지 않는 사람은 10년이나 15년 후에 그런 증상을 보일 수 있다.우리는 이 사용자들에게 사이버 폭력은 괜찮지 않으며 그들이 지금 하고 있는 것이 결과를 가져올 것이라는 것을 보여주기 위해 여기에 왔다.짜증나?그래, 진심이야?당연하지. --나는 k6kaTalk to me!See what I have done 15:41, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- 나는 사이버 폭력에 쉽게 흔들리지 않는다. 사이버 폭력이 나를 튕겨내도록 훈련해왔기 때문이다. 그렇지 않으면 그냥 무시한다.나는 여전히 사이버 폭력이 괜찮지 않다는 것을 이해하며, 이 사용자들이 이미 알고 있다고 해도 사이버 폭력은 괜찮지 않다는 것을 보여주려는 생각에 전적으로 동의한다.
사용자:BM123
| 사용자 차단됨 | |
| 사용자 변명이 윤수이 기물 파손으로 차단됨. --IJBall (대화) 16:38, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
브래들리 매크로비(Bradley Mcrobie)는 물론 브래들리 매크로비(Richie McSorley)와 린필드 FC(Linfield F.C.) 등 다수의 기사를 파괴해 왔기 때문에 이 사용자에 대한 차단 요청을 하고 싶다.고마워 Gbawden (대화) 12:56, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
121.219.146.66
| 닫힘 | |
| TomStar81에 의해 2주 동안 IP 계정이 차단됨. --IJBall (대화) 16:41, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
일정한 간격을 두고(대략 며칠에 한 번 정도, 때로는 하루에도 여러 번) 어떤 새로운 IP가 튀어나와 팔레스타인을 이스라엘이나 팔레스타인 영토로 바꾸고 이스라엘이 아닌 곳에 이스라엘을 추가하면서 '팔레스타인'이라는 단어에 대한 전쟁을 시작한다, 아무런 설명도 없고 쓸모없거나 무례한 설명도 없이 말이다.가장 최근의 것은 121.219.146.66이다.모든 편집은 그런 성격이다.반달리즘 전용 계정으로 차단하고 싶은 유혹이 있지만, 내가 너무 '인볼루션'(이 영역에서 편집한다)하는 것은 아닌지 궁금하다.다른 관리자분께서 해주시겠습니까?내가 이 일을 직접 처리할 수 있을지에 대한 다른 관리자들의 의견에도 관심이 있을 것이다.표면적으로는 「콘텐츠 분쟁」이지만, 이 IP를 포함한 그 분야에 정통한 모든 사람들은, 그것이 아니라는 것을 충분히 알고 있다.고마워요.제로talk 13:43, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 2주 동안 차단됨.톰스타81 (토크) 13:47, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 논평) 그리고 그의 편집은 취소되었다.세상이 다시 좋아졌다.윌리엄 매튜 플린더스 페트리 7 아다르 5775 14:54, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[하라
반달리즘: 단일 목적_계정 태그 추가
| 거의 다 왔어. 아무것도 없어.드레이미스 (토크) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) 18시 12분[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
리처드 아서 노튼(1958년- )은 위키백과의 사용자를 거짓으로 비난하고 있다.그들의 주장을 경시하거나 재조정하기 위한 시도에서 단일 목적_계정.토크에서 다음과 같은 잘못된 속성을 확인하십시오.나이_다양성_in_sexual_관계 및 추가 트롤을 방지하기 위한 경고문 발송. 143.176.62.228 (대화) 17:49, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 경험으로 OP IP가 WP라고 말할 수 있다.Tender WP:SPA. 저글링 하는 거 조금 있다가 디프티로 돌아올 거야.이안.thomson (대화) 17:58, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 나는 방금 그 토크 페이지에서 맛있는 것을 발견했다: "Awese self published books from Lulu.com, 저자가 쓴 최고 100달러".누가 썼는지는 모르지만 빌려 쓸 거야.드레이미스 (토크) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) 18:06[
- RAN, SPA 태그는 보통 다른 SPA 편집자들이 조금이나마 다른 사람에게 주홍글씨를 붙이는 방법에 지나지 않는다.그 태그는 아무도 필요 없고, 확실히 RfC에서 더 가까운 것은 아니다.게다가, 나는 결코 그들을 원칙에 따라 돌보지 않았다: 논쟁은 누가 그것을 말하는지 아닌 논쟁과 함께 서야 한다.IP, 그만 좀 투덜거려라.나는 이것을 닫으려고 한다. 왜냐하면 그것이 나의 아름다운 ANI 보드를 망가뜨리기 때문이다. 그리고 당신은 1월 4일부터 이 주제에 대해 (이 IP로부터) 그리고 다른 것은 거의 없다.드레이미스 (토크) 2015년 2월 26일 18:11 (UTC)[
리처드 토마스(작가)
| OP에 의한 비관리자 폐쇄. 불만 신고자가 완전히 협조적인 것으로 입증되었으며 더 이상 ANI 문제가 없다.추가 토론은 기사 또는 사용자의 토크 페이지에 속한다.초오르 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) 19:44[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
SPA 위커캣(토크 · 기여)은 2011년 이후 리처드 토마스(저작자)(토크 히스토리를 편집하면 로그 뷰가 삭제됨) 기사가 우스꽝스러울 정도로 퍼지면서 본질적으로 토마스의 전체 CV를 기사에 담았다.오늘 일찍 대부분 제거했는데 위커캣이 복구했어좀 더 경험 많은 판정 호출이 바람직할 것이다.나도 BLP 소싱 등에 문제가 있다고 믿지만, 그렇게 어렵게 보진 않았어.초오르 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC) 18:07 [
- 파란색과 연결된 WP:노타마존이 여기서 유용할 것 같아. --닐Ntalk to me 18:12, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- 되돌리고 그들에게 비소싱 정보에 대한 메모를 남겼다.제거된 추가사항에는 아마존의 구매페이지에 대한 직접 링크, 대량 비소싱 BLP 추가사항 및 WP:내가 20살이 되었을 때 세지 않았던 MOS와 외부 연결 문제들이 여기저기서 이슈되고 있다.상각(T)(C) 18:14, 2015년 2월 24일(UTC)[
- 출판된 픽션은 대개 그 자체의 출처라는 것을 지적해야 하며, 내가 제거한 SPA 버전에는 (그러나 나는 그 품질을 너무 심각하게 확인하지 않았다) 참고문헌이 있었다는 것을 지적해야겠다.정리가 필요하지만 아마도 SPA가 먼저 메시지를 받아야 할 것이다.또한 내가 너무 많은 것을 제거했을 수도 있다는 것을 지적해야겠지만(내가 삭제한 상들 중 일부는 실제로 관심이 있고 출처가 있을 수도 있다) 닐N처럼 포기는 훨씬 더 쉽다.초오르 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC) 18:23[
- 만약 그들이 생각하기에 적절한 자료의 포함을 논의한다면 어떻게 될지 지켜봐야 할 것이다. 그러나 광고와 비소싱 정보를 BLP에 포괄적으로 재설치하는 것은 계속 지켜볼 필요가 있다.상각(T)(C) 18:27, 2015년 2월 24일(UTC)[
- 포기하지 않고 먼저 기사를 대폭 손질한 뒤 제대로 소스가 되면 다시 제대로 쌓아야 한다.책 목록에는 주제가 쓴 모든 것이 아니라 주목할 만한 작품들이 포함되어야 한다.편집자는 저작권 침해 등 비슷한 형태의 스티븐 그레이엄 존스를 만지기도 했다. --닐Ntalk to me 18:33, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- 그 책들은 개별적으로 주목할 필요가 없다.WP 참조:LISTN. 초어 몬스터 (토크) 13:15, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- WP에 의해 균형 잡힌 것:NOTDIR. 출품작들이 자체 기사를 보유할 정도로 주목할 필요는 없다는 데 동의하지만, 작품이 많은 작가들의 경우, 우리는 "존재" 이상의 것을 포함 기준으로 삼아야 한다. --NeilNtalk to me 14:23, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 이전에 "도서목록에는 주목할 만한 작품들이 포함되어야 한다"고 말했는데, 그것이 잘못된 것이었다.책 목록이 적절하거나 그렇지 않다.사실 NOTDIR에 관한 어떤 것도 저자의 문헌이 부적절하다는 것을 시사하지 않는다.한편, 나는 일반적으로 단편 목록에는 반대한다(나는 당신의 나머지 문장에 동의한다).가장 주목할만한 작가들은, RS가 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디에 매달리는, 그렇다.나머지 부분은 WP 때문에 아니다.FRURED. 초어 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 16:35, 25 (
- 상황은 "사업 관련 기사가 회사의 모든 특허 출원 목록을 포함시켜서는 안 된다." --NeilN 00:15, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[]와 유사하다
- 당신은 이전에 "도서목록에는 주목할 만한 작품들이 포함되어야 한다"고 말했는데, 그것이 잘못된 것이었다.책 목록이 적절하거나 그렇지 않다.사실 NOTDIR에 관한 어떤 것도 저자의 문헌이 부적절하다는 것을 시사하지 않는다.한편, 나는 일반적으로 단편 목록에는 반대한다(나는 당신의 나머지 문장에 동의한다).가장 주목할만한 작가들은, RS가 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디 한 마디에 매달리는, 그렇다.나머지 부분은 WP 때문에 아니다.FRURED. 초어 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 16:35, 25 (
- WP에 의해 균형 잡힌 것:NOTDIR. 출품작들이 자체 기사를 보유할 정도로 주목할 필요는 없다는 데 동의하지만, 작품이 많은 작가들의 경우, 우리는 "존재" 이상의 것을 포함 기준으로 삼아야 한다. --NeilNtalk to me 14:23, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그 책들은 개별적으로 주목할 필요가 없다.WP 참조:LISTN. 초어 몬스터 (토크) 13:15, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 출판된 픽션은 대개 그 자체의 출처라는 것을 지적해야 하며, 내가 제거한 SPA 버전에는 (그러나 나는 그 품질을 너무 심각하게 확인하지 않았다) 참고문헌이 있었다는 것을 지적해야겠다.정리가 필요하지만 아마도 SPA가 먼저 메시지를 받아야 할 것이다.또한 내가 너무 많은 것을 제거했을 수도 있다는 것을 지적해야겠지만(내가 삭제한 상들 중 일부는 실제로 관심이 있고 출처가 있을 수도 있다) 닐N처럼 포기는 훨씬 더 쉽다.초오르 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC) 18:23[
- 되돌리고 그들에게 비소싱 정보에 대한 메모를 남겼다.제거된 추가사항에는 아마존의 구매페이지에 대한 직접 링크, 대량 비소싱 BLP 추가사항 및 WP:내가 20살이 되었을 때 세지 않았던 MOS와 외부 연결 문제들이 여기저기서 이슈되고 있다.상각(T)(C) 18:14, 2015년 2월 24일(UTC)[
- 나는 편집장을 반갑게 맞이하고 그들에게 장문의 메모를 남긴 다음 출처를 찾아 나섰다.나는 내가 할 수 있는 것을 추가했지만 결국 그 기사를 삭제하도록 지명했다.Yngvadottir (대화) 21:32, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[하라
- OP로서 Wickerkat/Richard Thomas는 완전히 협력적이었다고 논평할 것이며, 그의 사용자 토크 페이지에서 논의가 진행 중이기 때문에 이의 제기가 없으면 내일 비관리자로부터 이 토론을 종결할 것이다.모두들 고마워.초오르 몬스터 (토크) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 1315,
사용자:아틀란티스치
| 다이애나에게 카피비오 때문에 인데버를 받았어G S Palmer (대화 • 기여) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) 19:46[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
아틀란티스치(토크 · 기여)는 교수에 관한 기사만 편집하는 SPA이다.아이신 지오로 울히쿤과 울히쿤의 연구 분야와 관련된 기사들은 대부분 울히쿤이 쓴 논문에 연계를 추가하거나 그녀의 작품 목록을 갱신하는 것이 대부분이다.아틀란티스치의 편집은 최근까지도 꽤 온건한 편이었는데, 그들이 교수의 학술적 업적에 관한 자기 홍보 논문의 전체 내용을 복사하여 붙여넣었다. AISIN GIORO Ulhicun은 Aisin-Gioro Ulhicun 기사로 들어갔다.나는 지난 며칠 동안 이 자료의 추가를 다섯 번이나 되돌려야 했고, 그들은 토론에 참여하지 않고 위키백과 정책을 따를 준비가 되어 있다는 어떤 징후도 보이지 않기 때문에, 일종의 제재가 마련되어 있다고 생각한다.바벨스톤 (토크) 18:37, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- @Diannaa:여기서 삭제해야 할 개정판이 하나 더 있다--OrduinDiscuss 19:48, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[하라
- 알았어, 퇴근하고 집에 가서 가져올게.고마워 -- Diannaa (talk) 20:28, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) — 닌자 Diannaa (talk • 기여) [
- @Diannaa:여기서 삭제해야 할 개정판이 하나 더 있다--OrduinDiscuss 19:48, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[하라
사용자 및 인신공격 위반
| 닫힘 | |
| 사용자 정의가 Rjd0060에 의해 차단됨. --IJBall (대화) 20:44, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자 Vhjhv는 자신의 토크 페이지에 인신공격성 공격을 계속하는 반달리즘 전용 계정이다.그는 멈출 기미를 보이지 않으며 나는 현 시점에서 행정 개입이 필요하다고 생각한다.위거룬너 (대화) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC 19:05,
라시둔 칼리파이트 기사
안녕
나와 몇몇 사용자들은 라시둔 칼리프 페이지를 어떻게 편집해야 하는지에 대해 의견이 엇갈리고 있다.
내가 작성한 모든 편집이 삭제되어 이제는 수정 내역 페이지에서도 더 이상 찾을 수 없는 것 같아 관리자들과 상의하기로 했다.
그곳의 몇몇 사용자들은 내가 너무 많은 정보를 삭제하지 말아야 한다고 생각하는데, 나는 이것이 합리적인 논쟁이라고 생각한다.문제는 내가 원자적으로 창조에 대해 이야기 해달라는 요청에도 불구하고, 그들이 동의하지 않거나 정보를 제거하는 것 보다는 내가 하는 모든 변화는 제거된다는 것이다.
나는 그 기사의 경화 상태가 불명예라는 것을 알았다.완전 망신이야.친수니 무슬림 선전이나 다름없다.그런 민감한 주제에 대해, 나는 어떤 이유로 관련 위키피디아에 보관된 정보원이 이토록 노골적인 선전을 담고 있다는 것이 귀찮다.
관련 토크 섹션: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rashidun_Caliphate
다음은 개정 내역: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Rashidun_Caliphate&action=history
내가 한 아주 실질적인 변화는 지금 완전히 없어졌다는 것에 주목하라.
나는 이 사용자들에 대해 불평을 제기하는 것이 아니라, 어쨌든 관리자 개입을 원한다.그 기사에는 중립적인 관점이 없는 많은 섹션들이 포함되어 있다.내가 제거하거나 줄인 부분은 언어를 중립으로 바꾸는 역할을 하고, a) 내가 제거한 부분은 실제 기사 b)에 아무것도 추가하지 않고 완전히 비협조적이며 선전 역할을 한다.
20개 이상 바꿨을 거야이것들은 모두 제거되었고 더 이상 역사에도 존재하지 않는다.이런 상황에서 어떻게 해야 하지?
사용자:캔자스베어는 이것으로 시작한 것으로 보이며, 심지어 내 것이 아닌 변화까지 묶어 도매로 제거했다.그게 정말 받아들여질 수 있을까?a) 소수의 변경에 적용되는 이의에 대해 나의 변경 사항이 부당하게 함께 분류되는 경우 b) 기사가 그렇게 노골적으로 선전용으로 작성되는 경우 이 상황에서 어떻게 해야 하는가?
Evernote of sirus (talk) 2015년 2월 26일 () 20:19응답
- 시루스의 영원한 존재, 단기간에 많은 편집을 했다고 덧붙이겠다.그런 편집은
내
가 이기사를 완전히
다시쓰기 시작
한다는 토크 페이지 진술처럼 사람들의 관심을 끈다.
다른 편집자들은 그러한 선언에 반대할 것이다.그리고 당신의 편집은 페이지의 수정 내역에 모두 있으므로 삭제되지 않았다.리즈 22:30, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
사용자에 대한 블록 검토 요청:늑대인간
| 닫힘 | |
| 추가 관리자 2명이 블록을 승인함에 따라 블록 검토 요청 및 접수. --Jezebel의bons mots Ponyo 23:47, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
관리자(admin)가 사용자 블록을 검토할 수 있는지 확인하십시오.늑대인간?사용자:닉이 WP이기 때문에 닉-D와 나는 그것이 나쁜 블록이라고 느낀다.관련 및 WP:COI. 이런 상황에서 관리자가 편집자를 차단하는 것은 좋지 않은 관행이다.이 모든 것은 관련되지 않은 중립적인 관리자에 의해 처리되어야 한다.닉은 과거에도 같은 편집장과 갈등을 빚었고 과거에도 그를 차단해 두 사람이 서로 이력을 갖고 있다는 점도 눈여겨봐야 한다.캐든 22:28, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 그 블록은 Coffee에 의해 검토되고 유지되었다. - 왜 그것이 충분하지 않은가? - 나는 여전히 내가 여기서 배경에 대해 알아낼 수 있는 것을 찾고 있다. - 만약 당신이 다른 것을 준다면 도움이 될 것이다.벤첼라이트Talk
- 관리자인 닉이 호출되었고 커피는 그것을 몰랐기 때문에 그것은 충분하지 않다.캐든cool 22:45, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 닉이 행정 조치를 취하는 것을 결격시키는 등의 COI나 관여 이유를 아직도 보여주지 않고 있다.2012년, Thewolfchild가 사과하기 전에 닉이 변호하기 위해 한 블록을 확장했다는 사실이 그를 연루시키지 않는다 - 다른 것은 없을까?벤첼라이트Talk 22:51, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 닉은 여기 [17]에 참여했고 닉의 토크 페이지와 늑대인간 아이의 토크 페이지로 옮겨졌고 닉은 닉을 차단했다.캐든cool 22:57, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 이미지의 크기만큼 사소한 것 때문에 자신을 차단하는 사람은 아마도 그 블록 밖에 앉아 있는 것이 더 나을 것이다.◆야구 벅스 당근→23:05, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- (예: BB와) 나는 네 말에 동의하지 않아, 캐든.닉은 WP에 Thewolfchild를 언급했다.그리고 나서 IMGSIZE는 그의 무례한 토크 페이지 메시지에 대해 경고했고 이후 그를 막았다.그는 "무관심"이 아니었고 이해충돌도 없었다.커피는 그 블록을 정확하게 검토했고 인신공격에 대해 그것을 지지했다.늑대인간은 막혔다는 경고를 받은 후에 무례한 어조를 되풀이하는 것이 가장 현명하지 못했다.차단할 수 있는 원래 관리자의 재량 범위 내에서 그리고 유지할 수 있는 관리자의 재량 범위 내에서 블록을 승인하십시오.벤첼라이트Talk 23:08, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 닉은 여기 [17]에 참여했고 닉의 토크 페이지와 늑대인간 아이의 토크 페이지로 옮겨졌고 닉은 닉을 차단했다.캐든cool 22:57, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 닉이 행정 조치를 취하는 것을 결격시키는 등의 COI나 관여 이유를 아직도 보여주지 않고 있다.2012년, Thewolfchild가 사과하기 전에 닉이 변호하기 위해 한 블록을 확장했다는 사실이 그를 연루시키지 않는다 - 다른 것은 없을까?벤첼라이트Talk 22:51, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 관리자인 닉이 호출되었고 커피는 그것을 몰랐기 때문에 그것은 충분하지 않다.캐든cool 22:45, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
나는 WP가 아니었다.여기서 관여됨: 나는 관리자로서의 내 역할에서 이미지 크기에 관한 관련 정책을 지적하고 있었을 뿐인데, 이는 자신들이 이 정책을 위반하고 있다고 잘못 주장하는 다른 편집자에게 욕설을 퍼붓는 메시지와 이미지 크기에 대한 "왜" 그들의 변경사항이 되돌아오고 있는지 확실치 않다"고 주장하는 무례한 대화 페이지 게시물에 대한 대응의 일환이다.나는 또한 늑대인간에게 경고할 때 이것을 주목했다.나는 이것이 이미지 크기를 강제해야 하는 예 중 하나라고 생각하는지에 대한 선택권을 표현하지 않았다.나는 이전에 늑대인간과 "갈등"한 적이 없다.이는 캐든이 WP를 잘못 해석한 또 다른 사례로 보인다.내 명백한 파괴적 편집자 블록을 공격하고 개입해서 요점을 말했어.그나 그녀가 왜 아직도 이 일을 하는지 정말 알 수 없지만, 꽤 지루하다 (2013년의 이 논의는 관련성이 있다).닉-D (대화) 2015년 2월 26일 23시 19분 (UTC)[
- 흠... 그 늑대인간은 다른 사람들과 함께 일하는데 어려움을 겪어서 아직도 멘토링을 받고 있니?그가 최근 WT에 참가한 것은 다음과 같다.필미비오는 멘토들이 일하고 있다는 자신감으로 나를 채우지 않는다. -Thibbs (대화) 23:34, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 관리자 설명 검토 중:사용자:캐든은 여기서 성취하려고 시도하고 있다.늑대인간은 인신공격을 가했고 우리의 정책 WP에 의해 적절히 차단되었다.NPA. Nick-D가 이 사용자와의 이전 이력을 가지고 있는지 여부는 중요하지 않다(최소한 우려를 야기할 수 있는 어떤 형태로든 그렇지는 않다). 따라서 블록이 정당화되었어야 했다.— 커피 // 콩 한 잔 // 23:41, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
사용자:EvergreenFir 2.0이 차단된 상태에서 대화 페이지를 잘못 사용함
| 완료. 벤첼라이트Talk 00:06, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
그는 공공 기물 파손으로 차단된 후 자신의 토크 페이지에서 인신공격했다.나는 그것을 되돌렸고, 그리고 나서 나 자신의 4im 경고를 했다.그리고 나서 그가 또 인신공격(2개)을 했기 때문에 나는 그들을 되돌렸다.토크 페이지 액세스를 취소하십시오. --ToonLucas22(토크) 23:46, 2015년 2월 26일(UTC)[
누 요크 NY
| 사용자 차단됨 | |
| Bencherlite에 의해 차단된 사용자 정의. --IJBall (대화) 00:34, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[ | |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
Nu Yawk NY (토크 · 기여)는 워싱턴, D.C., 버지니아와 같은 FA들에게 이 장소들을 미국의 북동부 지역에 있는 것으로 잘못 표기하기 위해 편집전을 벌이고 있다.토크에서 이런 횡설수설한 댓글을 남기는 것 외에:메릴랜드, 나는 내 토크 페이지에 "이 기사나 기사는 게토 후드 프로젝트 뉴욕 시티 N********************"와 같은 글과 함께 이 사랑스러운 메모를 받았다.5개 자치구는 철저하다.그리고 내가 모르는 사람들을 위해 N****이라고 한 건 맞아.결코 무식하지 않은 목표 달성이제 내가 이 더 많은 일라를 부숴야겠구나 느리게 멍청한 무타짜 같은 놈들을 위해서 말이야." 등등의만약 편집전이 차단 가능한 범죄가 아니라면, 나는 마지막 논평이 적어도 블록은 아니더라도 행정관의 강력한 경고를 받아야 한다고 생각한다.2015년 2월 26일(UTC) 23:04, APK가 귓속말로 속삭인다[하라
위조 서명, 다른 사람의 주석 편집
벨기에에서 온 IPV6 주소는 캐나다[18]에서 IPV4 주소인 것처럼 가장하고 게시 시간을 잘 활용한다.이걸 어떻게 해야 할지, 어떤 조치가 필요한지 잘 모르겠지만 깃발을 올려야겠다고 생각했다. --Guy Macon (토크) 01:12, 2015년 2월 21일 (UTC)[
- 2A02:A03F:12DA:D300:213:20FF:FE3B:A79E (토크 · 기여) 사용자가 정확성을 검사해야 할 수 있으므로 이 사용자에 링크를 추가하십시오.편집된 내용 중 하나는 블로그를 원본으로 사용한다.매넷D 토크 01:22, 2015년 2월 21일 (UTC)[
- (...CHIRP……)CHRP...)
- 지금까지 사용된 4개의 IPV6 주소:
- 그리고 (정말 충격이야!)그는 또한 스팸 발송자 입니다.[19][20] [21] --Guy Macon (대화) 17:27, 2015년 2월 23일 (UTC)[
- 안녕, 난 여기서 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 전혀 모르겠어.일부 IP 이용자는 두 달 전부터 가짜 IP서명과 가짜 데이트를 한 댓글을 달기도 했다.나는 왜 누군가가 이름과 데이트를 위장하고 싶어하는지 모르겠다.나는 그들에게 답장을 했고 그들은 내 코멘트와 그들의 코멘트를 삭제하기를 원했다.나는 왜 그런지 상상할 수 없다 - 그 질문은 충분히 공평했고 아마도 다른 사람들이 그것을 보고 싶어할 것이다. 블루래스베리 (토크) 2015년 2월 23일 (UTC) 17시 40분 [
- 내 추측으로는 그는 스팸 위키피디아에 IP-hopping 프록시를 사용하는 실험을 하고 있으며, 자신의 IP 주소를 위조하고 날짜를 게시하고 그가 자신의 IP 주소를 위조했다고 지적하는 당신의 의견을 삭제함으로써 그는 탐지를 피할 수 있을 것이라고 생각한다.그가 깨닫지 못하는 것은 그의 햄핸드(ham-hand)가 자신의 활동을 숨기려 하는 것이 그를 아픈 엄지손가락처럼 돋보이게 하고, 그가 좋아하는 프록시가 차단되는 결과를 가져올 것이라는 점이다. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:04, 2015년 2월 23일 (UTC)[
관리자 도움 좀 받을 수 있을까?--Guy Macon (토크) 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC) 18:59 [
- 고마워! 그가 Camgirl 페이지를 계속 스팸 발송할 것이라고 발표했기 때문에, [22] 임시 범위 블록을 [2A02:A03F:*:*:213:20FF:FE3B:A79E ]? --Guy Macon (대화) 19:36, 2015년 2월 24일 (UTC)[
- User talk의 흥미로운 삭제:가이 마콘#차단... --Guy Macon (대화) 10시 15분, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
가이, 네 코멘트 #위, "그는 캠걸 페이지를 계속 스팸 발송할 것이라고 꽤 많이 발표했어." 그런 점에서 그는 단지 논쟁만 하고 있을 뿐이지, 우리가 여기서 하는 일이잖아.의도치 않게 공개하는 사람들의 IP 주소를 삭제하고 (혹은 "지나치게" 혹은 "revdel" 혹은 "rev del" 혹은 당신이 뭐라고 부르든 간에) 삭제를 요청하지 않는가?그리고 그것이 이 사람이 성취하려고 노력하는 것 같지 않아. --Anthonyhcole (talk · 기여 · e-메일) 12:38, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그의 최근 논평에서 보듯이, 그가 기꺼이 다른 사람들의 논평 삭제와 전쟁 편집을 중단할 의사가 있다면, 나는 "방해 중지" 모드에서 "새로운 사람을 돕다" 모드로 전환하여, 내 논평에서 그의 IP 주소를 다시 사용하고 그의 IP 주소가 역사에서 다시 삭제되도록 할 수 있는지 볼 것이다. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:01:, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[하라
- 그가 전쟁과 삭제를 중단하기로 결정한 것으로 보여서 나는 모든 반단백질이 만료될 때까지 기다렸다가 그가 다시 시작하지 않도록 며칠 더 기다렸다가 IP주소를 언급했던 모든 장소를 다시 조정하고 리빌을 요청할 수 있는 타당성을 살필 생각이다.
- 그가 경고를 무시하고, 다른 사람들의 의견을 바꾸거나 삭제하며, 전쟁을 편집하는 대신 단순히 경청만 했더라면 나는 첫날에 그 모든 것을 할 수 있었을 것이다.나는 정말로 그가 이 경험에 의해 더럽혀지지 않고 사용자 이름을 등록하고 공동체의 일원이 되기를 바란다. --Guy Macon (토크) 01:38, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
행동 방침에 대한 질문
가끔 RC 순찰을 하는 동안 나는 이런 것을 보게 될 것이다.
- (사용자 생성 로그); 07:01 . . 사용자 계정 Kitpatricksymons123 (토크 기여 블록)은 Kitpatricksymons(토크 기여 블록)에 의해 생성되었다.
- (사용자 생성 로그); 07:50 . 사용자 계정 Jenoptik Redakteur en(토크 기여 블록)은 Jenoptik Redakteur(토크 기여 블록)에 의해 생성되었으며 암호는 이메일로 전송되었다.
내 질문은 어떻게 접근하느냐 하는 것이다.AGF를 할까?양말 접지에 막힘?두고 보자고?여기 있는 어떤 도움이라도 고맙겠다.톰스타81 (토크) 14:04, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 사람들은 대체 계좌를 가질 수 있게 되어 있기 때문에(나 자신도 한 개 가지고 있다), 나는 총을 쏘는 것을 경계할 것이다.그것들이 남용되지 않는 한, 알츠는 완벽하게 합법적일 수 있다.윤수이雲水 14:58, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
사용자 페이지의 성적 자극 이미지
| MfDs는 해당 페이지에 대해 시작되었으며, 그것은 이 논의를 계속하기에 적절한 장소다.2015년 2월 25일 군집 19:23 (UTC)[하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
포르노로 가득찬 버려진 계정 사용자 페이지
| U5에 따라 체드가 삭제함.G S Palmer (대화 • 기여) 2015년 2월 25일 14:20, (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
User:Kingstonjr 계정이 폐기된 것으로 보인다[27].2012년에 마지막으로 편집한 사용자.이에 관한 방침은 무엇인가?그냥 포르노를 지우면 안 될까?— 172.56.8.107 (대화) 10:42, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- (비관리자 논평) 빠른 삭제를 위해 태그를 달았다.내 생각엔 사용자가 포르노피디아나 어디서 왔든 간에 돌아온 것 같아.APK는 2015년 2월 25일(UTC) 11시 14분 내 귀에 속삭인다[하라
완료 — Ched : ? 11:23, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
여기 [28] 사용자:킹스턴저(Kingstonjr)가 2006년 짐보(Jimbo)에 의해 금지된 편집자에게 만든 포스트가 있다:그래, 너는 매우 아름다워! 나한테도 이메일 좀 보내줄래? hornyhare@.**.**(빨간 이메일).나는 그것이 위키피디아를 위한 것이 아니라고 거의 확신한다.아래 설명들은 모두 BDSM과 누드화로 서로의 사진을 대처하고 서로 퍼트리며 편집하고 있다.그들은 아마 양말 계정일 것이다. 하지만 나는 확실하지 않다.대부분의 사용자들은 몇 년 동안 편집하지 않았지만, 그들의 사용자 페이지에 1 리턴이 모든 포르노나 그들을 부르고 싶은 것을 다시 불러온다. 172.56.8.170 (대화) 14:33, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
성적 도발적 이미지로 가득 찬 버려진 사용자 페이지
사용자:Joe1234는 위의 것을 거울로 삼으며 심지어 언급하기도 하지만, 2006년에 다른 편집자가 일부 이미지를 삭제했지만 여전히 많은 포르노 jpg 파일이 나열되어 있다.[29] 편집자는 2006년에 마지막으로 편집했다.[30] 172.56.8.170 (대화) 13:00, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
미완료 — Ched : ? 13:15, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 다른 편집자는 대부분의 사진을 삭제했다.한 번 되돌리기만 하면 그들은 거기에 있다.나는 포르노에 대해 의미론적인 논쟁을 하지 않을 것이다. 그러나 BDSM 사진들이 거기에 있다.위 킹스턴에 연결된 계정이 여러 개 있다.JR과 심지어 포르노 사진의 계정과 10대 여성으로 확인된 사용자들을 가리키는 페이지도 있다.2006년 당시에도 헛소문이 있었다. 172.56.8.107 (대화) 14:01, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 삭제 왜 우리는 이 공간을 방어하는데 시간을 낭비하는가?라이트브레서 (대화) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 17:41, 25]
- 나는 그것이 원칙, 미끄러운 경사, 위키피디아 활동주의에 대한 저항, 그리고 다른 시간 낭비들과 관련이 있다고 추측한다.-맨드러스 인터뷰 17:44, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아는 링크, 이미지 또는 미디어 파일의 저장소나 거울이 아니다.
- 위키피디아는 블로그, 웹 호스팅 서비스, 소셜 네트워킹 서비스, 기념 사이트가 아니다. 그리고...
- 위키피디아는 검열되지 않는다 - GIRMS에 관한 것이다.너희들은 작업할 기사가 없니?응. 라이트브레서 (대화) 2015년 2월 25일 18:00 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 그것이 원칙, 미끄러운 경사, 위키피디아 활동주의에 대한 저항, 그리고 다른 시간 낭비들과 관련이 있다고 추측한다.-맨드러스 인터뷰 17:44, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
WP:사용자 페이지 설명:사용자 공간에 프로젝트를 불명예스럽게 만드는 어떠한 이미지도 가지고 있어서는 안 된다는 광범위한 공감대가 형성되어 있으며, 그러한 이미지들을 제거하라는 요청을 받을 수도 있다. 명백한 성적 자극(이미지와 경우에 따라 텍스트) 또는 프로젝트 이익이 거의 또는 전혀 없는 것으로 보이는 괴로움과 충격을 주거나 웹 호스트나 개인 페이지로만 위키백과를 사용하거나 옹호하기 위해 의도된 내용은 삭제 검토 시 항소를 받는 사용자(또는 삭제)에 의해 삭제될 수 있다.[주2] 맥락을 고려해야 한다. 성적 문제에 대한 비도발적 성격(LGBT 사용자 상자 및 관계 상태 등)에 대한 단순한 개인 공개는 영향을 받지 않는다.문제는 이미 해결되었다. 172.56.8.170 (대화) 15:03, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 단락 전체를 읽어라.마지막 문장 중 하나는 "콘텍스트를 고려해야 한다"이다.이미지 목록은 본질적으로 다른 사이트에 대한 검열의 대상이 될 수 있는 이미지의 목록일 뿐이다.이제, 그것이 "성적으로 도발하려는 명백한 의도"라는 요소에 맞는지 아닌지는, 논의되어야 할 문제라고 생각한다.사용자 페이지가 커먼즈에서 특정 개별 카테고리보다 나쁘지 않다는 생각이 든다.대부분의 Commons 하위 범주:범주:예를 들어 나체.물론, Commons는 다른 프로젝트지만, 우리가 그것과 연관되어 있다는 것은 나에게 그 카테고리 페이지 자체가 그 프로젝트를 "비판"하게 하지는 않을 것이라는 것을 시사한다.물론 사용자 공간은 조금 다르며, 문맥에는 위키피디아가 검열되지 않는다는 문장과 함께 많은 명시적 이미지가 뒤따른다.아마도 '충격'하려는 의도가 있겠지만, 그렇다면 아주 가벼운 충격이다.내 요점은 간단히 말해서 사용자 페이지 정책의 문구가 자극하는 많은 사실적인 결정들이 있다는 것이다.위에서 제시한 것처럼 흑백은 아니다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 15:16, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 문제는 그 페이지에 "이미지"가 없고, 그것들은 모두 링크(그리고 대부분 일상 연예인들/모델들의 사진)라는 것이다.Mlpearc (오픈 채널) 15:12, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 다른 사람이 모든 이미지를 자르기 직전에 사용자의 페이지 기록으로 조금 내려가십시오.누드 사진 중에는 9년 전 사용자가 만들려고 했던 자연 속 임의의 아름다움에 대한 전통적인 사진들이 있었다는 것을 주목할 필요가 있다.그리고 당신이 말했듯이, 현재 사용자 페이지에 있는 링크(빨간색이 아닌 것)는 일반적으로 PG 등급보다 나쁘지 않은 다양한 별자리들과 연결되어 있다.여기 작전부는 어떤 종류의 임무를 띠고 있을지도 모르지만, 그는 엉뚱한 실수를 저지르고 있다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→15:41, 2015년 2월 25일(UTC)】[
- 참고 게시물을 주의 깊게 읽으십시오.사용자 페이지 3차 수정본은 성적으로 자극적인 이미지 BDSM과 퍼짐으로 가득하다.누구나 복원할 수 있다.사용자는 그들을 쓰러뜨리지 않았다.다른 편집자가 했다.사용자는 2006년 이후로 편집하지 않았다.위반된 사진은 복원되지 않도록 제거해야 한다.사용자 페이지는 가치가 거의 없어 삭제해야 했다.물론 누군가가 그 안에 불쾌감을 주는 자료들을 편집한 것들을 없앨 수도 있다.— 172.56.8.170(대화) 15:46, 2015년 2월 25일(UTC)에 의해 추가된 이전 미서명 의견
- BDSM과 확산은 성적으로 자극적이고, 상식적인 것은 무관하며, 잘못된 논리임이 분명하다.공용어가 아닌 사용자 페이지 콘텐츠에 대해 이야기하고 있다. 172.56.8.170 (대화) 15:58, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
BDSM과 확산이 성적으로 도발적인 것은 분명
하다.누가 하는 이야기야?우리는 공통점이 아닌 사용자 페이지 내용에 대해 이야기하고 있다.
내 글을 전부 읽어라.설명하려면:사용자 페이지 정책의 규칙은 프로젝트를 불명예스럽게 만드는 것을 피하는 것이다.만약 당신이 프로젝트가 평판이 나빠질 위험이 없는 상황을 가지고 있다면(예: 위키피디아와 밀접한 관계가 있는 재단 프로젝트인 Commons에서 발견되는 페이지를 부분적으로 미러링함으로써) 그 내용이 성적으로 자극적인 것으로 발견되는 것은 정말 문제가 되지 않는다.
솔직히, 사용자 페이지 정책에 대한 더 나은 이해는 이미지가 아직 나쁜 이미지 목록에 올려지지 않았거나(또는 명확하게 검증되지 않았을 수 있음), 아직 삭제되지 않았거나(Commons deletion은 시간이 좀 걸릴 수 있음), 또는 사용자 페이지에 자극적인 창의적인 제품이 있는 경우(예: 살아있는 pe의 이미지 배치)에 대한 갭 필러 역할을 하는 것이다.Rson은 효과를 위해 절규하는 남자의 이미지 옆에 있거나 사용자 페이지에 에로틱한 소설이 있는 곳에 있다.
요컨대, 나는 그 사용자 페이지의 특정 이미지가 프로젝트를 불명예스럽게 만든다는 주장을 본 적이 없고, 이 특정 사례에서 그러한 이미지들의 수집이 왜 프로젝트를 불명예스럽게 만들었는지에 대한 어떤 특별한 설명도 본 적이 없다.이 질문으로 넘어가자:우리는 나체나 성적인 백과사전 이미지를 많이 올리는 사람이 그들의 사용자 페이지에 업로드된 작품들의 목록을 표시할 수 없다고 말할까?편집자들은 좋은 이유로 그들의 사용자 페이지를 넓은 범위로 얻는다.—/Mendaliv///2¢Δ's 18:08, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- OP는 이제 사용자 라이트브레서를 추적하고 있는데, 여기서 내가 "도발적" 이미지와 가장 가까운 것은 "Rosie the Ribetter"의 유명한 2차 세계 대전 이미지다.base야구 벅스 당근→ 16:11, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
MfD 사용자:조1234년
삭제에 대한 잘못된 셀러니: 사용자:Joe1234.라이트브레서 (토크) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC) 18:17 [
사용자 페이지에는 WP를 위반하는 이미지가 포함되어 있다.사용자 페이지
| 사용자:Nude BDSM 이미지가 가득 찬 Jbc01 사용자 페이지는 WP를 위반함:User pages 프로젝트를 불명예스럽게 만들 수 있는 어떤 이미지도 사용자 공간에 가지고 있어서는 안 된다는 광범위한 의견이 일치하고 있으며, 그러한 이미지들을 제거하라는 요청을 받을 수도 있다. 성적 자극(이미지 및 경우에 따라 텍스트) 또는 프로젝트 이익이 거의 또는 전혀 없는 것으로 보이는 괴로움과 충격을 유발하기 위해 의도된 내용
그리고 우리는 탐문 수사를 계속한다.일반 GGTF 대원들의 "삭제" 투표에 대한 폭풍에 대비하라.콘베이어벨트 17:39, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
|
MfD 공지사항
사용자에 대한 MfD 통지:Jbc01. 라이트브레서 (대화) 18:25, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[하라
IP 위반 WP:COVER와 WP의 정신:SPA
사용자:172.56.8.170은 일종의...크루사이드에 있는 것 같다...좀 더 좋은 말로정말 심각한 질문이야, 우리 이거 괜찮지?CombatWat42 (토크) 17:54, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 우리는 괜찮지 않아.그들은 WP로 이동해야 한다.MFD. 여기서 벌어지고 있는 일은 처리도 안 되고 엄청난 시간 낭비 말고도.---임블란터 (대화) 17:56, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 기여자가 아닌 내용에 대한 코멘트가 여기에 적용되는 것 같다.이 사용자 페이지를 유지하는데 있어 백과사전의 이점이 있는가?--BoBoMeowCat (대화) 18:09, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 기고자에 대한 언급은 ANI가 거의 한 곳이지만, 말이 옳게 들렸기 때문에 임의로 인용해주셔서 감사하다.컴뱃톰바트42 (토크) 21:33, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 천만에요.WP가 이러한 사용자 페이지를 유지관리할 때 얻을 수 있는 잠재적인 이익과 관련하여 여기에서 콘텐츠 문제를 해결할 수 있으십니까?실제로 생산성이 높은 IP 편집기를 번거롭게 하는 이유는? --BoBoMeowCat (대화) 22:04, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 뭘 환영해?2601:1:9200:78A:C9BE:B354:7574:73FD (토크) 02:43, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
- 천만에요.WP가 이러한 사용자 페이지를 유지관리할 때 얻을 수 있는 잠재적인 이익과 관련하여 여기에서 콘텐츠 문제를 해결할 수 있으십니까?실제로 생산성이 높은 IP 편집기를 번거롭게 하는 이유는? --BoBoMeowCat (대화) 22:04, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 기고자에 대한 언급은 ANI가 거의 한 곳이지만, 말이 옳게 들렸기 때문에 임의로 인용해주셔서 감사하다.컴뱃톰바트42 (토크) 21:33, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 데프. 이것만 보고 이 근처에서 양말 냄새를 맡는다.러그넛Dick Laurent is dead 18:48, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
IP가 누구인지 매우 궁금하다.서명된 편집자인가?굿데이 (토크) 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC 18:50,
- 몇 년 전 위키피탄 만화 캐릭터에 그렇게 집착했던 사람이 누구였을까.그게 누구였든 간에, 그건 한 명의 후보일 가능성이 있어.그리고 ANI에서는 때때로 사용자들이 "아이들을 생각한다" 등의 소리를 지르게 된다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→20:11, 2015년 2월 25일(UTC)】[
- 피닉스 BB에는 눈이 내리고 있을 것이고 나는 어떤 주제에 대해 동의한다.다른 모든 사용자는 위키백과를 참조하십시오.Sockpuppet 조사/버킷 속 LightbreathherHell in a Buket (토크) 22:14, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 로그아웃 시 지속적인 편집, 회피 차단, 반달리즘, 비밀번호 재설정 남용으로 마이크 V에 의해 IP가 차단되었다.—패릭스 (t c) 22:18, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
사용자:이중 위협13
나는 여기서 어떤 반칙도 의심하지 않는다. 그러나 모든 베이스를 커버하기 위해서 나는 이 문제에 대한 재의견을 요청하고 있다.G5(차단/금지된 사용자에 의한 생성) 이유로 삭제된 AK Ikwuakor 페이지의 삭제와 관련하여 Dual Threat13(대화 · 기여)으로부터 예기치 않게 연락을 받았다.여기서 다루어야 할 두 가지 근거는 계정의 성격과 내 토크 페이지에 있는 메시지의 표현에서 비롯된다. 전자의 경우: 2014년 가을에 만들어진 Dual Threat13 계정은 편집이 몇 가지밖에 되지 않고 모두 여기서 AK Ikwuakor 기사를 만드는 쪽으로 되어 있는 것 같은데, 이것은 반드시 나쁜 것만은 아니다.그리고 여기의 기사들은 그 주제에 대해 이용 가능한 정보의 변화에 근거하여 두번째 기회를 얻을 수 있고 또 얻을 수 있기 때문에 그 자체도 그렇다.토크 페이지 게시글은 사용자가 작성한 문구에 "바쁘시겠지만, 이 페이지를 복구하고 싶다"고 답한 뒤 삭제 로그 요약이 나온다.단어 선택이 될 수도 있지만, 역사를 체크해 보면 지금까지 대화 페이지에 어떤 메시지도 남기지 않았다는 것을 알 수 있다.나는 그 모든 것을 아직 로프를 배우려고 하는 새로운 사용자 탓으로 돌렸지만, 그 기사가 G5 이유로 삭제되었기 때문에 나는 이것이 욘갈레아24의 양말 계정이 될 수 있는지에 대한 두 번째 의견을 원했다(토크 · 기여).톰스타81 (토크) 03:20, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
여기서 반칙은 없었다.AK Ikwuakor의 페이지는 몇 달 전 다른 사용자에 의해 만들어졌다.페이지에 인라인 인용문 문제가 있어서, 나는 파이버의 임의 사용자에게 도움을 요청했어.인라인 인용문을 수정하기 위한 서류가 헷갈려서 피버러에게 연락했어.나는 여전히 위키피디아의 요령을 배우고 있는데, 금지된 사용자에 의해 만들어졌을 뿐만 아니라 페이지가 제거되고 있을 때 허를 찔렸다.페이지의 원래 편집자가 아닌 금지된 사용자.나는 피버러에 있는 유저에게 연락했고, 여기 우리의 서신들이 있다.
통신 |
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| 모모이스트 안녕, 나는 너의 위키 페이지 편집자야. 나에게 여기에 팁을 줘서 너의 만족을 보여줄 수 있니? http://fiverr.com/momo115/thank-you-for-your-tip?정말 고마워. 2015년 1월 28일 08시 12분 이중위협박 안녕 모모115! 환불해 주시겠어요?이게 뭐야? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK_Ikwuakor 2015년 2월 17일 13시 15분 이중위협박 가능한 한 빨리 나에게 연락해라.정말? 2015년 2월 17일 13시 15분 모모이스트 안녕 얘야, 미안하지만 10일이 지나면 환불은 불가능해. 그리고 거의 한 달 전부터 벌써 위키시각을 하고 있잖아.하지만, 그 통지는 해롭지 않아, 5달러만 주문하면 다른 위키 관리자들에게 연락할게. 13:18 2015년 2월 17일 이중위협박 해롭지 않다는 게 무슨 말이야?당신은 부분적으로는 금지된 사용자이기 때문에 제거될 무언가를 만들었다. 현재 문제를 일으키고 있는 이전 기고자의 편집 내용을 삭제하셨습니다.약간 잘못된 광고!우리가 이걸 어떻게 할 수 있을까? 다음 메시지: 모모이스트 2015년 2월 17일 13:32 모모115 승인 확률 99,99% 당신의 위키 페이지는 여전히 열려있고, 삭제될 것이라고는 아무 것도 알 수 없다.내가 아무것도 지운 게 없다고 확신할 수 있을 텐데, 아마 페이지 수정을 위해 사람을 고용했을 거야.광고라면 내가 그냥 지나쳤던 네 글에서 나온 거야.내가 다른 위키 관리자들에게 연락하기를 원하면 5달러를 주문할 수 있다. 13:34 2015년 2월 17일 이중위협박 좋아, 그럼 5달러만 주면 수리되는 거야?또한 금지된 사용자 부분은 어떻게 해야하나? 2015년 2월 17일 13:54 momo115 그것이 고쳐질 것이라고 장담할 수는 없지만 다른 위키 관리자들과 함께 노력할 것을 명심해라.금지된 사용자라니? 2015년 2월 17일 14:52 이중위협박 당신의 프로필에 대해 위키에서 말하는 것은 다음과 같다. 이 글은 다른 사람의 실질적인 편집 없이 금지되거나 차단된 사용자(Johngalea24 – SPI 확인)가 자신의 금지나 차단을 위반하여 만든 페이지로서 위키피디아의 신속한 삭제 기준을 충족시킬 수 있다.CSD G5. 21:33 2015년 2월 17일 참조 모모이스트 사실이 아니다.그 증거는 내가 여전히 이 일의 구매자들을 위해 봉사하고 있다는 것이다. 00:53 2015년 2월 18일 이중위협박
방금 메세지를 받았어: 이 페이지는 삭제되었다.페이지의 삭제 및 이동 로그는 아래 참조용으로 제공된다. 06:42, 2015년 2월 19일 TomStar81(토크 기여) 삭제 페이지 AK Ikwuakor(G5: 금지 또는 차단된 사용자에 의한 생성(Johngalea24)) 이것 좀 수리해 주시겠습니까? 2015년 2월 25일 15:00 모모이스트 안녕, 환영해, 이 말을 들으니 미안하지만, 존 갈레아가 누구고, 왜 당신의 페이지를 수정하기 위해 사람들을 고용했니? 2015년 2월 25일 15시 11분 이중위협박 안녕 모모115, 그게 바로 너야.내 페이지를 수정하기 위해 고용한 사람은 너뿐이야.나는 그 문서를 수정하거나 다른 사람을 고용한 적이 없다.그냥 끊어진 고리를 고쳐달라고 부탁했어.페이지 전체를 수정하고 이전 기고자를 삭제하셨습니다.내 페이지가 이미 승인되었는데 왜 다른 사람이 내 페이지를 수정하게 했을까?제발 좀 고쳐줄래?아니면 처음에 제출한 서류는 가지고 계신지요?이건 꽤 스트레스 받는군! 2015년 2월 25일 15시 24분 이중위협박
모모이스트 안녕, 미안하지만 난 존 갈레아가 아니야. 그리고 나한테는 의심스러워.당신을 믿고 이해하지만, 삭제 후 바로 페이지를 만드는 것을 위키 가이드라인에서 스팸이라고 하기 때문에 수정하려면 몇 개월을 기다려야 할 것이다.그 동안 당신은 설명서를 개선하는 일을 할 수 있다.다시 한번 말하지만, 나는 너를 믿지만, 누군가가 나를 따라 너의 페이지를 수정했어. 2015년 2월 25일 15:28 이중위협박 위키백과 이름이 뭐니?2015년 2월 25일 15:46 모모이스트 그것을 아는 것이 얼마나 유용한가? 2015년 2월 25일 15:51 |
톰스타81 내 끝에는 반칙이 없었다는 것을 이해해 주기 바란다.무작위 접촉에서 '나'라는 단어가 나온 이유는 내가 이 페이지의 원래 기고자 중 한 명이었기 때문이다.반칙은 없다.
이중위협13 (대화) 2015년 2월 27일 03:19, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)이중위협13
바퀴 달린 윌리는 둥근 물건을 타고 보코하람을 보코하람으로 옮긴다.
| 휠 나콘 03:22, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)에서 막힘[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자의 편집 기록을 살펴보려는 사용자:Herxacula, 누가 특별히 우리의 오랜 친구 Willy를 이 편집 요약에 따라 바퀴를 타고 있는 것을 좋아하는가?존 카터 (대화) 02:36, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
- 기억을 되살리는 WoW.차단, 되돌림. --SB_Johnnyny talk02:43, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
- 지금 이걸 잡을 수 있는 편집필터가 있지 않아?업데이트가 필요할지도 모른다. --Jayron32 02:44, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
- 음, 편집자는 이제 변명의 여지가 없다. - Knowledkid87 (토크) 02:51, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
- 지금 이걸 잡을 수 있는 편집필터가 있지 않아?업데이트가 필요할지도 모른다. --Jayron32 02:44, 2015년 2월 27일 (UTC)[
WP의 Malik Shabazz 관리자:자체 문제.
나는 많은 아프리카 주제 기사에 기고하고 있다.나는 파괴적인 행동에 대한 기록은 없다. 단지 많은 아프리카 주제 페이지들에 걸쳐 확실한 기여를 했을 뿐이다.LEAD와 관련된 esp.나는 몇 년 동안 사용자 말릭 샤바즈를 우연히 만났고 거의 충돌하지 않았다. (그러나 우리가 누가 항상 옳은지 추측한다면?)그러나 그는 나에게 말콤 엑스의 GO AWAY]라고 말했고, 당신이 편집한 내용을 보면 무엇이 그렇게 공격적인 반응을 일으킬 수 있는지 이해하기 매우 어렵다.그는 내가 정보원을 데려오지 않았다고 주장한다. 아..내가 편집한 근거는 WP와 관련이 있다.중량 및 WP:리드: 리드 판단을 위한 RS를 어떻게 가져오십니까?그러면 그는 내가 먼저 여기 도착해서 계속 AN/I로 나를 협박한다.이 문제에 대한 그의 TOKK 페이지 기여도는 희박하지만 파괴적 행동 기준에 따른 파괴적 행동에 대해 말해주는 것 외에는 나는 우리 모두가 나의 편집이 그 기준에 부합하지 않는다는 것을 볼 수 있다고 생각한다.왜 그가 WP에 실패하는지 확실하지 않다.AGV와 내가 떠밀려가는 반달인 것처럼 사람들을 모욕한다.토크에 대한 나의 이슈는 그의 괴롭힘 전술에 의해 씻겨져 버렸다.되돌리는 습관은 이 행정관에게 새로운 것이 아니며, 그의 쓸모없는 유치한 위협도 아니다. (나는 규칙을 알고 있기 위해 여기에 있었다.)그는 또한 바로 그 토픽 페이지에서 다른 사람들이 내 문제에 동의할 때 내 견해는 오직 내 의견인 것처럼 행동한다.간단히 말해서, 나는 이 어조가 필요하지 않다. 기사를 토론하고, 당신이 기사를 소유한다고 생각하지 말고, 당신이 관리자 직함을 가지고 있고 위키피디아에 24시간을 소비하기 때문에 되돌릴 수 있다.위키 매너를 좀 가져라.마지막 호는 전문 에디터, AN/I나 이런 기술적인 것들을 다루지 않고, 처음 하는 일인 것 같아, 어떤 오류라도 용서해줘, 이 곳을 균형 있게 정리하라는 말만 들어. --inayity (대화) 18:43, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 여기서 물어뜯는 것처럼 보이지는 않지만, ANI를 반대할 때 상대방에게 알리는 것은 일반적인 예의/위쪽의 큰 빨간 글자와 여러분이 실을 열 때 받는 오렌지 박스로 표시됨)이다.하지 않는 것은 좀 무례하다.다행히도, 다른 누군가가 이미 이 일을 해냈다.윌리엄 매튜 플린더스 페트리 6 아다르 5775 19:59, 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[하라
- 나는 Inayity가 WP를 읽을 것을 권고한다.OAS(특집 기사(Malcolm X가 하나임)에 대한 지침을 포함.나는 기사를 의논하고 믿을 만한 출처를 인용하기 위해 여러 번 그를 초대했지만, 그 대신 그는 수천 페이지 분량의 전자책과 연계하여 "구글 검색과 블랙 포럼 읽기"를 언급했고, 그 기사에 문법적으로 형편없는 편집을 반복했다.
- 나는 또한 그가 WP:를 읽기를 추천한다."리드의 재료에 주어진 강조점은 신뢰할 수 있는 발표된 출처에 따르면 주제에 대한 중요성을 대략 반영해야 한다"고 말하는 LED.빠른 Google 검색 또는 블랙 포럼 읽기.믿을 수 있는 출처— 말릭 샤바즈 Stalk/ 2015년 2월 25일 (UTC)[
- 그 기사에 약 1년(최근은 아니지만) 동안 많은 시간을 할애한 사람으로서 나는 토크 페이지 토론과 기사 이력을 검토했다.M.S.와 다른 단골들이 있는 곳으로부터.글렌콘티와 루미톤은 지속적인 TLDR I-hear-you-ho-my-cometic 앞에 괄목할 만한 자제력을 보여왔다.EENG (대화) 00:40, 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC)[
- 말릭은 "가버려"라고 말하지 않았다. 그는 "출처를 가져오든지 아니면 떠나든지"라고 말했다.큰 차이.그리고 나는 EENG의 의견에 동의해.드레이미스 (토크) 2015년 2월 26일 (UTC) 18:24 [
I need help: A user is harassing me.
There is a user that continuously harasses me. This user has been giving me a very hard time recently (I refuse to give the username publicly; I will discuss with the helper who offers themselves to help me), and I request this user to be blocked or properly given a strict warning for several reasons:
- This user has been putting up campaigns against me to multiple people / makes biased statements. This user tries to campaign that I should be blocked for having a 'battleground' personality and putting up criticism that seems wrong (to him).
- This user has been stalking my account (I don't know if it is 24/7, but whatever I do, this user almost all the time interferes against me either by talking negatively about me among other people or revert edits with poor reasonings).
- As a follow-up, this user also does disruptive reasoning (I presume just towards me). Everything I do, this user tries to undo it, and wants to do so.
- This user has been reverting my warnings (literally, he wants me not to touch his talk page at all) on his talk page not to harass me in a very offensive manner. I told him not to do disruptive editing twice and not to stalk me, and this user reverted both, saying that he wasn't going to talk to me. Even though this user states that he has right to his talk page, he is ignoring my warnings and continuously acting against it. It is also the reason of why I am not notifying this user that I'm on an attempt to report him.
- As a follow-up, however, this user still believes he has the right to come into portals that I'm related in, and as usual, put up campaigns against me.
- This user was talks about me without notifying me in any way, and I find that as an unwanted attention, and therefore, harassment.
It would be great if anyone helped me settle this user into either properly warning this user or block him. I am mortified, and I need help here. HanSangYoon (talk) 09:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Related unresolved thread: I am here to report a Sock Puppet Account ―Mandruss☎ 09:18, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- To facilitate this, the editor he's accusing of "harassing him" is me. In the thread Mandruss is linking to, I wondered if this kind of thing crosses the line into a "personal attack". I would appreciate an admin looking in to this, as I feel this editor has crossed lines here, and I would like to see this resolved. But it's getting to the point that several editors now don't dare edit or revert anything this editor has done, lest he haul them up either before WP:SPI (which he's already done with three long-standing editors), or WP:ANI (as he's trying to do to me here). --IJBall (talk) 16:53, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I have only requested an investigation; nothing wrong there, Mandruss. HanSangYoon (talk) 08:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- User:HanSangYoon, you have removed another user's comments and I would suggest that you restore them. This was either malicious or more evidence of WP:CIR, neither looks good for you. ―Mandruss☎ 12:50, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- So, what should I do here? – Should I restore my comment? Or should I leave it deleted as potential "evidence"? TIA... --IJBall (talk) 14:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Mandruss, do you not notice that the 'harassing' one I'm referring here is IJBall? One of my reasons of why I request this user to be blocked is because he is stalking me; should I leave his spam-like comment around as usual? This user likes to ignore and delete my warnings, and so I can't just get rid of his spam message. That's just plain ridiculous on my side, Mandruss. I do not want this user to stalk around of what I'm doing. But why am I being ignored of my help request? HanSangYoon (talk) 14:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- If I was more active and had more time, I'd block HanSangYoon myself. Honestly, if this hasn't stopped by tomorrow I might be persuaded to dust off the ole block button. What needs to happen next is one of the editors in conflict with him needs to start a subsection here requesting a block or some other administrative action for HanSangYoon. Keep it simple, state the problem clearly, and provide diffs clearly showing the competency issues and edit warring. AniMate 14:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot understand your logic of why you would want to block me. After all, I'm reporting a stalker, and you're simply saying that I should be blocked for no reason...pity. HanSangYoon (talk) 02:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- If I was more active and had more time, I'd block HanSangYoon myself. Honestly, if this hasn't stopped by tomorrow I might be persuaded to dust off the ole block button. What needs to happen next is one of the editors in conflict with him needs to start a subsection here requesting a block or some other administrative action for HanSangYoon. Keep it simple, state the problem clearly, and provide diffs clearly showing the competency issues and edit warring. AniMate 14:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- User:HanSangYoon, you have removed another user's comments and I would suggest that you restore them. This was either malicious or more evidence of WP:CIR, neither looks good for you. ―Mandruss☎ 12:50, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Request for WP:BOOMERANG sanction
I have clearly made the case for the OP's WP:Incompetence in two threads including an earlier one on this page. The user is showing very poor editorial judgment, failing to adequately defend his actions, and being extremely obstinate about the whole thing. I see multiple editors strongly opposed to his actions and none supporting. Failure to respond to such opposition is disruptive by definition. I have not been around for any of the supposed edit warring, but the preceding alone should warrant some boomerang action, and I feel it's a day or two overdue. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Seconded. Admins can feel free to look into the OP's "charges". But his recent campaigns against other editors (e.g. here, and at WP:SPI) is troubling, to say the least, quite aside from the WP:CIR issues that Mandruss references. --IJBall (talk) 17:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thirded. I tried to extend the olive branch and help HSY fix up with some of his other projects that were unprofessional like Template:Busan Metro Line 1. However he still will not compromise and insistent that his bland pictures replace quality pictures that other editors have worked hard to make. One minute he is begging for help on something the next he is stubbornly challenging seven other editors that are all opposed to his changes.Terramorphous (talk) 23:26, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Opposed. I was simply making edits when IJBall and Terramorphus came in to undo my edits without a proper explanation. I tried discussing with IJBall, but he was simply under denial and deleted my comments immediately (even warnings not to harass me at here and here), while Terramorphus acts without discussing fully. I tried to conversate with these users, but they don't seem to even consider it importantly. IJBall's campaigning against me is a type of bullying (as it harasses me), and as an administrator quoted, "IJBall showed a high level of incivility in this case. He accused HanSangYoon of incompetence numerous time both here and at the ANI. That is not a good practice at all. Competence is required, but it is not inherited. IJBall, if you find out that the user is acting wrongly, try to help him, to teach him, and not to accuse him of being ignorant or dishonest. Acting like that only makes the situation worse." ( -Vanjagenije; evidence is here). IJBall has also been previously criticized by another user that he "shabbily treated" me (evidence is located in the same page as given).
- With Terramorphus, the undoing of metro stations became a pain in the neck as I requested for him not to revert but to discuss, and he simply ignored my advice and went on to continue reverting the edits (which goes against the Wikipedia policy of necessary revertings and explaining (at least). Terramorphus not only refused to discuss, but also sent a challenge of getting me into trouble as a replacement response. These two editors has been very obnoxious to my contributions, and rather I'd like to point these two users out that they're the one that's causing me trouble. On top of that, I request an IBAN on IJBall (instead of a block, actually). HanSangYoon (talk) 01:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- @HanSangYoon: You have not adequately explained how, in an article about a train station, a photo of a sign can be better for the infobox than a photo of the station. Infoboxes should illustrate the article's subject to the best extent possible with available images, and these are not articles about signs. I don't even need to point to a guideline that says this; it should be intuitively obvious. It should not be necessary to "discuss" this concept one article at a time.
- You have consistently disregarded the attempts of more experienced editors to provide advice and guidance. An editor with about 900 edits should be capable of deferring to the judgment of multiple editors with thousands of edits each. You are not. Most experienced editors are willing to forgive the mistakes of newer editors and to provide assistance. When the newer editor repeatedly and defiantly refuses to accept the guidance, the desire to help them ends.
- You have removed another user's comments on this page, citing as justification the fact that they removed your comments from their user talk page. This shows that you do not understand talk page policies at Wikipedia.
- All of this, combined, points to WP:IDHT, failure to respect WP:Consensus, and WP:Incompetence. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I may not be a hardcore Wikipedia article editor as you said, but I do am a mature human with lots of common sense; seeing bunch of users trying to reason that they're more experienced in editing article truly makes me facepalm, first of all. Even if I was an experienced editor (which I'm not), I'm sure my usual personality of being strict on format is not gonna change, and I hope you're not trying to question my personality here. I have seen Wikipedia for more than a decade, and as a 'experienced Wikipedia user' (as in using it), I know what I want for articles that I edit. I'm pretty sure you're tired of my blunt and fixed attitude, but that is just me, after all. If there's someone who could properly cooperate with me, then I'm willing to fix my attitude FOR that cooperator. Take the otherwise, then it won't go well with me. That's that. No battleground attitude, no issue.
- And let's see about the platform views that you're trying to get rid of. London Undergound, NYC Subway, Seoul Jihachul and Tokyo Chikatetsu. I am pretty much a huge fan of subways. The common thing of these four huge metro system is that in their encyclopedia pages, they show their station mark as the title image. You have the red-blue roundel for London. Seoul and Tokyo takes their modern style of placards, too, from rounders to hangar signs. New York? They take the track view image WITH the placard (black square). I like the formats of putting in placards because it shows UNITY. It shows standardization of the metro system, and boy have I repeated this multiple times. Of course, there will be people not agreeing with me, but then what am I? I have a special connection with subways, and my strong opinion is nullified? It makes absolutely no sense to me that my own contributions for the better should be taken down by some another user who doesn't seem to have a legitimate reason to back their actions up.
- That's why I was so fired up with SecondaryWaltz and IJBall in the first place. I criticized Secondarywaltz because of the strange follow-up that occurred with the revertion, and with suspicion, I tried to put up a report on him, and because I did the right thing for myself, I was bombarded with negative users, finding it beyond ridiculous of how misunderstanding these users are.
- And not trying to be disrespectful, but you seem more and more biased as I explain more and more of my position in my own issue. You may be a professional editor, and I respect that. But what I do not respect is the wrongful position you are currently standing at. I've shown you the best reasons of why the Wikipedia policy and my contributions cope with each other above. But why is it ignored? I've proved myself, and sometimes sure, they reply well. But at the end, they either just ignore the discussion or say something totally unrelated, which rises my impatience with these users. The two users that I criticized above are examples (and I also explained it well, too). I believe they were doing disruptive editing, and so I tried to show them of what I thought of their actions that outraged me. And I guess that's what you see as a disruptive editing...on my side.
- You can look into talk pages or records of me hotly discussing about these placard sign images, and my reason for why the images should be up (if gathered) is abundant. Therefore, my position on the issue that escalated in the beginning is the same: Platform images should be up there. Doesn't matter if it contributes little, cause it still contributes something. Deleting that isn't the policy in Wikipedia (as I explained), and on my side, the one who should be 'getting the point' is the one who cannot fully continue the discussion I tried to resonate multiple times. HanSangYoon (talk) 07:10, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your arguments are full of holes, and they continue to show a closed-minded ignorance of Wikipedia editing concepts (see WP:Other stuff exists for example), but I am through wasting my time arguing with you. If I hadn't seen that thread at the Help Desk a week ago, I wouldn't be involved in this or even aware of it. This noticeboard seems decidedly uninterested in this, and I've learned to avoid being a lone crusader on things like this; it just doesn't pay. I'm going to pretend I didn't see the Help Desk thread and let the rest of the community deal with you as they see fit. Best of luck. ―Mandruss ☎ 07:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
@Mandruss: You started this discussion, but I'm not sure what you actually want. Do you want to ask administrators to block HanSangYoon, or to warn him, or what? I agree with you that HanSangYoon is acting disruptively, but I don't think he should be blocked just for making wrong editorial judgments. @HanSangYoon: In the future, if other editors revert your edits, you should calm down and try to discuss that with them on the article talk page, or on the WikiProject talk page, or on their user talk pages. You should not make the same or similar edit again unless you reach a wp:consensus with other editors. You should not report them to administrators, WP:SPI, or anywhere else. You should not accuse them of stalking, bullying, harassing, etc. Just calm down, and try to discuss the issue with them. So, my advice to you is to immediately stop accusing other users, and to take time to read WP:CONSENSUS and especially this page. I call on you to promise here that you will not make any contested edits in the future without reaching consensus first, and that you will not make accusations against other editors just because they do not agree with you. I believe that is the only way to save yourself from being blocked, as otherwise you are very close to that. Vanjagenije (talk) 16:16, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Vanjagenije: I would be satisfied if this user would do three things.
- Reverse all of his additions of sign photos.
- Agree to follow WP:BRD procedure from this point forward. He may try his sign photo additions again, but if his edit gets reverted, he must not re-revert unless he first gains consensus for the change in talk. It will be his responsibility to start the discussion. If he is unable to get consensus after making his best argument, the sign photo stays out. He should understand that endless, circular WP:IDHT argument will not be tolerated.
- Agree that other editors may be watching his activity for awhile to be sure he is honoring his agreement, without accusing them of stalking.
- If the user cannot agree to all three items, then I'm requesting a one-week block, during which time I and possibly others will reverse his sign photo additions. If he then returns and starts this all over again without following BRD, he should expect to return to this page, this time as the subject instead of the OP. ―Mandruss☎ 16:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- It's probably not your intention, but that comes across as "Please block him so we can undo all his work and then get him blocked again when he comes back". You might want to moderate your position a bit here. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- @SarekOfVulcan: My intention is to turn the clock back to a time before all of this user's disruptive activity. A reset, if you will. My hope is that no block is necessary, not once, let alone twice. If necessary, I'm willing to do the reset myself, but I don't want the possibility of edit warring while I'm doing it; hence the need for the block. I hope I have clarified my position. ―Mandruss☎ 16:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Opposed again. I believe my edits were rather contributive, not disruptive as Mandrus's claims. I have been adding information and describing well of why Mandruss's criticism against me is excessive above. Also, to Vanjagenije, I have already said that I am the one who discusses with users who revert my images and contributions. It's them who either run away from the discussion, or suddenly talk about something else, totally unrelated. Mandruss showed an example of one right now, claiming that my explanation was 'full of holes' (which I strongly disagree) instead of actuall countering them. And for what reason am I being close to being blocked for? These unreasonable criticisms truly angers me. There is no reason to get rid of them, and it also breaks several Wikipedia policies. I stand by my defense. HanSangYoon (talk) 17:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- P.S, I was/am/will continue to discuss with people before doing reverts (as Vanjagenije said). Such warning should be towards the other side, not my side. Disruptive editing isn't what I'm doing. It's what they're doing. Reverting my contribution with lack of reasoning...it's really angering.
- HanSangYoon, please read WP:BRD. If someone reverts your bold edit, discuss your proposed edit on the talk page. Don't edit war or get angry, just deal with it and try to come upon a solution. ColonialGrid (talk) 14:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @ColonialGrid:, I have followed the bold edit of whenever I have doubt, I edit. I contribute. I try to have consensus and discussion, and it's the users on the other side that either ignores it and pushes with their edit warring, or all of a sudden, talk about something else to cut off the the discussion. What was I supposed to do? I dealt with so many obstacles these users placed in front of me, and I truly had enough. These users needs to be aware that I have good faith, and their offensive actions of condemning whatever I do threats my good faith. I face palm whenever I get warnings of criticism from people, in which sometimes it seems ironic. HanSangYoon (talk) 19:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- This response simply demonstrates you do not understand BRD. You accuse others of edit warring after your bold edits, but it is you who is edit warring, not others. If you get reverted don't reinstate it: that is edit warring. Discuss proposed additions on the talk page if you are reverted. If you follow BRD properly edit wars cannot happen as reverts lead to discussions. If you are discussing issues with other edits and it gets no where, that means that no consensus has been formed and it's time to walk away and do something else. ColonialGrid (talk) 04:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- @ColonialGrid:, I have followed the bold edit of whenever I have doubt, I edit. I contribute. I try to have consensus and discussion, and it's the users on the other side that either ignores it and pushes with their edit warring, or all of a sudden, talk about something else to cut off the the discussion. What was I supposed to do? I dealt with so many obstacles these users placed in front of me, and I truly had enough. These users needs to be aware that I have good faith, and their offensive actions of condemning whatever I do threats my good faith. I face palm whenever I get warnings of criticism from people, in which sometimes it seems ironic. HanSangYoon (talk) 19:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @SarekOfVulcan: My intention is to turn the clock back to a time before all of this user's disruptive activity. A reset, if you will. My hope is that no block is necessary, not once, let alone twice. If necessary, I'm willing to do the reset myself, but I don't want the possibility of edit warring while I'm doing it; hence the need for the block. I hope I have clarified my position. ―Mandruss☎ 16:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- It's probably not your intention, but that comes across as "Please block him so we can undo all his work and then get him blocked again when he comes back". You might want to moderate your position a bit here. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose formal sanctions, but strictly warn the user about ownership behaviour in articles and paying heed to consensus in talk page discussions. HanSangYoon wishes to contribute images to LA Metro articles, but discussion has determined that the images are unacceptable, either because of poor quality or incorrect context. There seems to be agreement that there should be images, but that better ones should be found. Rather than accept this result HanSangYoon has battled on the talk page and elsewhere insisting that the images must be their contributions; if not these, then other images they will collect in the future. That is inappropriate. HanSangYoon: Wikipedia values your contributions but you do not own them, and sometimes the community decides to go in a different direction. Some other alternatives were suggested to you (such as submitting the images to Commons, which you have done) but you cannot insist that your images (and/or only your images) must be used in any article. Continuing to do so is disruptive, and you will be blocked if you refuse to listen to criticism and cannot contribute constructively. Ivanvector (talk) 20:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Also, the user should be very strongly admonished for suggesting that another user's argument is racist, with no shred of proof. Completely unacceptable. Ivanvector (talk) 20:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- HanSangYoon has just engaged in edit warring, breaking WP:3RR. Discussion is at: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:HanSangYoon reported by User:ColonialGrid (Result: ). ColonialGrid (talk) 05:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Deejhy Sheikh
| Resolved.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Deejhy Sheikh (talk · contribs) is a sock of User:Sheikh Zaman ll. (see the SPI case) Normally I would wait for a clerk or CU to look at the case, but the user and his IP are removing the speedy template from his latest autobiographical article and trolling my talk page. Can someone nip this in the bud? APK whisper in my ear 10:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. APK whisper in my ear 10:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Judy Henske
| User warned by Yunshui. --IJBall (talk) 14:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could an admin take a look at this edit? The edit itself is not a problem - the problem is the edit summary, which seems to me to be defamatory of a prominent living person. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User:Cindy's Cafe aka 109.246.133.205
| CLOSED | |
| Both users blocked for edit warring for 1 week by JamesBWatson. --IJBall (talk) 15:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
So there is pretty much an edit warhappening on a few pages now between myself and User:Cindy's Cafe aka 109.246.133.205. But now I'm posting here I wont eb doing any reverts fir a while.
The situation is; The editor in question first removed a pre-fix 'The Right Honourable' from the article Karren Brady stating "She is NOT a member of the Privy Council. ONLY members of the PRIVY COUNCIL bear the title 'Rt Hon'. CHECK PARLIAMENT.UK" In turn reverted stating "All Life Peers and Hereditary Peers (Baron, Earl & Viscount) use The Rt. Hon.". I then left a message on Cindy's Cafe talk page with the information about the correct use of the title with references. Cindy's Cafe then 'Blanked the page' with no response. Since then the editor sometimes logged on and sometimes not, has been removing the title several pages, and has been reverted by other editors as well only talking (rarely) through edit comments.
Pages in question so far:
Some more in question:
I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall on this one, any help would be appreciated. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 03:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I have to say that it's a little ironic for you to have warned CC about edit warring when you fully admit that you are the other party in the edit war. And as far as CC blanking his/her talk page, well, there's no guideline against doing that. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that CC and the above IP are the same user? Did s/he admit it and I missed it? Erpertblah, blah, blah... 04:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hey I'll be the (I was) the first to say it was an edit war. But CC failed to discuss it, I'm not the only editor to revert the edits. Both CC and IP have a similar edit history in removing specific content and editing articles about the TV show 'Eastenders'. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 05:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you think you have substantial evidence that they could be the same user, head to WP:SPI. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 10:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hey I'll be the (I was) the first to say it was an edit war. But CC failed to discuss it, I'm not the only editor to revert the edits. Both CC and IP have a similar edit history in removing specific content and editing articles about the TV show 'Eastenders'. Nford24 (PE121 Personnel Request Form) 05:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I wonder whether Erpert actually looked at the relevant editing history at all before asking "how did you come to the conclusion that CC and the above IP are the same user?" Even a very brief look at the history makes it perfectly clear, way beyond any doubt, that Cindy's Cafe has used the IP address, and also at least one other IP address in the 109.246.133.x range. (Unfortunately, the toolserver tool for checking contributions from an IP range is in one of its very frequent periods of not working, which is why I have to say "at least one", and can't tell whether any other IP addresses have been used too.) Going to WP:SPI would be completely pointless. Simply sometimes logging in to an account and sometimes not is not in itself sockpuppetry. I don't see any overlap in time between the editor's editing the same articles logged-in and unlogged-in, nor anything else which makes the IP-editing/account-editing combination an abuse.
- We have an edit war between two editors. Both editors were aware quite a while ago of the edit warring issue: Cindy's Cafe was warned about edit warring, while Nford24 was certainly aware of the issue, as she or he was the one who posted a talk page warning about it. It looks as though this is one of the very frequent occasions when an editor somehow fails to grasp the point that edit warring is edit warring whether or not the editor in question is convinced that the edits are justified. I shall block both editors for edit warring. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
List of Presidents of Croatia
Hi. I am involved with this article and the ongoing dispute in which User:Director has pursued a curious position for years now, whereby the list article includes various offices in various states in its scope, with little regard for verifiability. I told him that back in 2011, to no avail. He has continued to advocate this position, with no improvement with regard to WP:V, and recently engaged in an edit war with User:Timbouctou over it. User:Tuvixer also chimed in with a few reverts of their own. Once they finally got off the edit-war-wagon, there was still no resolution to the issue - the article remains in the state where its basic premises in the lead section are not supported by any references, and the page history is littered with insults. This has gone well beyond a simple content dispute and into an unambiguous violation of numerous policies.
On the Talk page, when I recently tried to say something, I was summarily needled by User:FkpCascais as if I was condoning this whole process by not intervening in an issue where my intervention would be seen as a trivial violation of WP:INVOLVED. This whole exercise in ridiculousness really needs to end. I'm hoping another admin can intervene instead of me and dole out some bans and blocks that are apparently necessary, because I'm not seeing that any further discussion is going to be preventing further blatant violation of Wikipedia policies, behavioral or content.
For example, I'd give:
- a month-long block to both Director and Timbouctou for the egregious and persistent violations of the edit warring policy, coupled with WP:OWN, WP:POINT, WP:DE, WP:CIVIL, ... violations
- a ban to Director on the topic of the Croatian head of state, broadly construed. Not sure about the duration, because it's been 3-4 years since this started - I don't think it's likely that a short ban would accomplish anything substantial, but it does seem fair to at least try something other than indefinite.
- a final warning to Tuvixer with regard to WP:EW
- a final warning to FkpCascais with regard to WP:DEPE
And that's just for what I saw they did at this particular article. I noticed there have been some disputes on other articles, but I haven't had the time or stomach to analyze it all. There could well be grounds for even stricter sanctions. TIA. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:27, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- The citation that Socialist Republic of Croatia and Republic of Croatia are the same state and the same country can be easily found in the Preamble of the Constitution of the Republic of Croatia. I was going to find all citations necessary and put them on Talk page of that article, but now I see that we have come to a time where it is implied that fear should be the guide in editing certain articles. I don't know if that is what Wikipedia was intended, but I will still find the citations, and with your permission User:Joy, put them on talk. Not today, but during next week. Now rule by fiat and martial law is in place on those articles, which is sad and dangerous. That is all from me. I hope no user will be banned, of course if they stop edit warring. Maybe to protected the article for a month, so we can all resolve this on the Talk page of the article, what do you say? I think that is the best solution, because banning users will just make it worse and allow one user to edit the whole article without any consensus. So I think the article should be protected for a month. --Tuvixer (talk) 12:51, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- The edit history on the 17th Feb makes intersting reading. WP:25RR anyone? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 13:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Why not indeff blocks all-round, while we're at it? Yeah, you can tell old Joy here is WP:INVOLVED..
Timbouctou and I don't get along, that's an established fact (we had an interaction ban). And the knee-jerk edit-war really is inexcusable, I don't pretend otherwise (in fact I said so myself earlier in a pretty amiable chat with Timbouctou). But the thing is - this report is about the article, not me or Timbouctou: there is no edit-war over there now for days, and we are discussing the issue amicably, with several editors contributing their opinions - and its not looking like it'll turn out the way Joy wants. Claims of WP:V violation are opposed on the talkpage as unfounded, and the proposed changes to the article do not have consensus. Last I looked, three users (myself included) currently oppose any changes - this is not a clear-cut issue, at the very least. And as Tuvixer in part points out - this is a political, left/right dispute at its core.
What this really looks like - especially the topic ban - is a means for Joy to circumvent user consensus, and get his way content-wise. The topic ban is especially suspect: I do NOT consider myself the owner of the article nor do I in any way adopt such a stance - but I hope I am allowed to point out that I did pretty much write the thing up (alongside many other officeholder list articles). Now I'm to be topic-banned essentially on the basis of one bout of edit-warring? And that's justified and fair? Nah. That's Joy removing me from the picture over there (ironically while citing DEPE).
So in summation: yeah, I screwed up - big time. I should not have edit-warred, its a silly, stupid, childish thing I did, and I'm ashamed of it - even more so for being around here on Wiki for so long. I blew my top. I apologize, throw myself at the mercy of the court, and plead temporary insanity :).
What I do not like, however, is this one incident of my reverting Timbouctou's recent changes (against consensus mind you!) being blown out of all realistic proportions, turned into some kind of "pattern" - so that it can be used to permanently get me out of Joy's hair. -- Director (talk) 14:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sanctions are supposed to be preventive, not punitive. Seems kind of pointless blocking anyone for edit-warring five days after the incident. Not to get into the idiocy of the meritum here, the whole thing started with Direktor flipping out and provoking an edit-war with the exact purpose of drawing attention from admins to use it to his advantage in a content dispute. The "consensus" he talks about regards his wholly original view of the chronology of officeholders on one of the articles he passionately owns (there are dozens of others, but who cares - certainly not admins, that's for sure). The issue has been raised before, several other editors tried to reason with him over the past several years, and this (uninterrupted edit-warring) seems to be the only way of making him participate in a discussion (I think all my previous blocks were because of him on articles he owned and continues to own). He simply doesn't hear anything, instantly throws hissy fits and throws insults right and left against whoever is "against consensus", or as he calls it, the "longstanding version of the article". In short, he is not here to edit, he is here to censor other people's edits. And has been doing that for years. Tuvixer is a relatively new addition to the project, an editor with WP:COMPETENCE issues who does not hide the fact he is here with a political axe to grind, and who learned all he knows about Wikipedia from following Direktor's lead (currently his obsession involves edit-warring over the description of Ivo Josipović's profession and similar bullshit). I guess that's the thing with trolls - to fight one, you have to become one, but if you don't fight them, they just multiply. And I'm just too old for this shit, including the bureaucracy which is required to fight vandals who only need a mouse click or two to cause damage to articles. Where was this promptness and eagerness to help when I was dragged to ANI three times over the past month or so by two puppets on an unrelated article? There are veritable psychopaths up in here but getting them blocked would require like 300 hours of my time compiling evidence, posting diffs, reporting to 17 different noticeboards and enduring 900 pages of rants and essays, explaining the gist of Balkan politics to admins who earned their mops via exemplar and thorough editing of articles on Pokemon. So excuse me if I decide not to follow this thread any more. I have better things to do with my time. Direktor certainly does not. 15:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)Timbouctou (talk)
- Yes, I flipped out - you remained perfectly cool. In every sense of the word. Of course :). And even though I basically wrote the entire thing, I'm not there to "edit", only harass and censor. Only a WP:OWN-addled, "flipped-out" madman, or some "troll" or other, could possibly oppose that small article being split into three or four non-notable fragments... -- Director (talk) 16:25, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Anyone? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Beat me to it. I could start a thread about an admin not being competent that would get looked at pretty quickly, with plenty of mutal back-slapping... Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think the window closed on any chance of the (exceptionally strong) remedies you are seeking here days ago. If you had brought the matter of the edit warring here or to 3RR as it was happening, I can't imagine either Direktor or Timbouctou would have escaped a block (after-all, the situation speaks for itself). But at present there discussion ocurring on the page which (while still well short of the collaborative spirit we might want to see there) is at least meeting the basic demands of WP:C and seems as if it might work out a reasonable compromise solution. Forestalling that with blocks seems counter-intuitive. Mind you, being familiar with some of the parties here and the history involved between them, I can well imagine that this could slip back into incivility again (and I trust you'll keep us informed if it does) but at the present moment, don't you think it makes sense to try to give this unlikely truce a chance to bear fruit with regard to the content? Snow I take all complaints in the form of epic rap battles 17:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I don't quite see it - there's been no change to the Talk page in the last few days, nor has there been a substantial change to the article. I just don't see the potential for a resolution when nobody has actually backed down from their prior unhelpful stances. Rather, it appears they've just backed off into their corners as if we were in a boxing ring. Classic WP:NOTHERE. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- If I may add, it seems to me that we've allowed the normal editorial process to effectively be taken hostage by these incidents. The chance needs to be primarily given to policy-abiding editors, not to any and all of them indiscriminately. Have a look at what User:Tomobe03 wrote in that Talk page discussion, and what, if any, was the response to his arguments. It seems fairly clear to me that they have been dissuaded from actually working on improving the article. A person who has made huge contributions to a gazillion good articles, including many involving Croatian politics, suddenly won't edit this one list article. Admin effort should be spent unclogging these kinds of stoppages. We shouldn't be enabling them by pretending we don't see this kind of an elephant in the room. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oh stop grandstanding, Joy. Nobody's there atm. But Tomboe not being there obviously means he's been "taken hostage", while others not talking means they're WP:NOTHERE as part of an elaborate scheme to avoid the indeff blocks or whatever else you so solemnly proposed? The difference seems to be whether or not they agree with your apparent views on the issue. Nobody's being "bullied" there, and you really seem to be doing your best to blow out of all proportion what amounts to little more than a half hour of craziness... -- Director (talk) 16:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You're just continuing to prove my point that preventative measures against further shenanigans are warranted. (When's the next half hour of craziness scheduled?) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Well, I guess logically we can best determine that by looking at when the latest occurred before this one. When was that?
- And that's the point, of course: with melodrama you're trying to turn this into a "pattern" of some sort, and paint the most productive editor at that article as "disruptive", based on his opposing a change that you openly support ("he has continued to advocate this position [in this dispute I'm shamelessly misrepresenting]"). -- Director (talk) 17:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Productive? The list article we're talking about mainly consists of an unreferenced list. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- That's ridiculous and you know it. Nobody in their right mind could seriously doubt those people held the offices as described there. But for the record, if nothing else - I did not compose that list, I placed it in the table. So yeah, I increased the article's size in bytes about three or four times. -- Director (talk) 09:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- I see what you did there... yes, nobody in their right mind could possibly object to your ideas. It's just un-possible. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- That's ridiculous and you know it. Nobody in their right mind could seriously doubt those people held the offices as described there. But for the record, if nothing else - I did not compose that list, I placed it in the table. So yeah, I increased the article's size in bytes about three or four times. -- Director (talk) 09:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Productive? The list article we're talking about mainly consists of an unreferenced list. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You're just continuing to prove my point that preventative measures against further shenanigans are warranted. (When's the next half hour of craziness scheduled?) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oh stop grandstanding, Joy. Nobody's there atm. But Tomboe not being there obviously means he's been "taken hostage", while others not talking means they're WP:NOTHERE as part of an elaborate scheme to avoid the indeff blocks or whatever else you so solemnly proposed? The difference seems to be whether or not they agree with your apparent views on the issue. Nobody's being "bullied" there, and you really seem to be doing your best to blow out of all proportion what amounts to little more than a half hour of craziness... -- Director (talk) 16:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- If I may add, it seems to me that we've allowed the normal editorial process to effectively be taken hostage by these incidents. The chance needs to be primarily given to policy-abiding editors, not to any and all of them indiscriminately. Have a look at what User:Tomobe03 wrote in that Talk page discussion, and what, if any, was the response to his arguments. It seems fairly clear to me that they have been dissuaded from actually working on improving the article. A person who has made huge contributions to a gazillion good articles, including many involving Croatian politics, suddenly won't edit this one list article. Admin effort should be spent unclogging these kinds of stoppages. We shouldn't be enabling them by pretending we don't see this kind of an elephant in the room. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I've tried to contact Timbouctou yesterday, directly on his talkpage, to see what his current position is; he has not yet responded: I'm "WP:HERE", not in any "corner". And there's been much discussion since the edit war... The last thing that happened is I pinged FkpCascais and Tuvixer on whether any changes at all are necessary, Tuvixer replied "leave it as it is".
As far as I can gather at this point, Tomboe and Timbouctou want to split the article into three(?) other articles, FkpCascais wants to split the wikitable in the article into two sections (which I don't really mind), while Sundostund, Tuvixer, and myself oppose any changes. Feel free to interpret that for me? I personally call that "no consensus after a decent response", and want to remove the opposed tags from the article... but that's me. -- Director (talk) 16:00, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You're continuing to present this is as a rather frivolous content dispute about the editorial notion of scope, and ignoring the glaring verifiability issue. That's just another proof that you're continuing to be disruptive and that preventative measures against this are necessary. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- During the past week I have not edited (at all) simply because RL stepped in. The issue at hand is verifiability. I'm not bent on applying one formula or another to the article, rather applying verifiability policy to the material presented. It appears that opposition from Director stems from asserting ownership over the article - they explicitly refer to several articles as "my stuf" (referring to themselves) copied from this particular list (see [32]) - claiming consensus or lack thereof somehow invalidates WP:V (see [33].--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Joy. This is a "frivolous content dispute about scope". Exactly. That's my opinion. Because regardless of whether all those republican heads of state constitute "presidents" in a general sense to your satisfaction - if we want the article's scope to include them, we can. And that was the scope since the article's inception in times past beyond memory. Moreover, all those people had the title "president", formally. I think its really strange for someone to demand "sources" and cry "WP:V" in order to allow the article to continue listing (e.g) the "President of the Presidency of Croatia" alongside a "President of Croatia".
- During the past week I have not edited (at all) simply because RL stepped in. The issue at hand is verifiability. I'm not bent on applying one formula or another to the article, rather applying verifiability policy to the material presented. It appears that opposition from Director stems from asserting ownership over the article - they explicitly refer to several articles as "my stuf" (referring to themselves) copied from this particular list (see [32]) - claiming consensus or lack thereof somehow invalidates WP:V (see [33].--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not going to further argue against these vague assertions. It's just meaningless. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Tomboe is latching on to a truly pathetic, out-of-context fragment of a sentence, in brackets, where I refer to the general set up of a wikitable which I used in several list articles, and wonder who has copied it to the Slovene list article. But maybe its a window into my psyche? Who can say, really...
- As regards the rest - yes, if we want the article to continue to list Yugoslav-era presidents over there (as opposed to creating fifteen political POVFORKS), we're free to do that. -- Director (talk) 17:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The statement I referred to was not out-of-context and it is confirmed yet again in this ANI where you referred to yourself as "the most productive editor at that article" (see here [34]) - paraphrasing "I created/wrote the majority of this article." argument provided at WP:OWN as an example of statements used to imply special privileges regarding a specific article and assert its ownership. I see no purpose of this type of arguing when the matter is clearly addressed by existing policies.--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Conduct of Mrmike1695
- (retitled from "Disruption from Mrmike1695" per wp:TALKNEW) --doncram 14:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC))
Despite numerous warnings [35] littered on his talk page for misleading edit summaries and adding unsourced content, Mrmike1695 is continuing with the same behavior. This series introduced an incorrect rating and this is not a typo. Two diffs but the problem has been ongoing and the only attempt at acknowledging the issues was this. --NeilN talk to me 14:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I concur. The inappropriate "fixed typo" edit summaries can be explained by ignorance and tech gone bad, but the history of persistent disruptive edits remains.
- Mrmike1695 can be marginally recognized as trying to build an encyclopedia through multiple contested edits, but a consistent failure to respond positively [36] to the community means, in my opinion, that Mrmike1695 should be retired as a name for further contribution. Willondon (talk) 15:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I never bothered to start an incident report, just figured someone who spends more time on the backalleys of WP would get to it, but yes, my issue with this user is not his edit summaries (after the first repeated use of it on the Big L page I assumed that it was the auto-fill setting on his phone's browser, not a malicious lie about his editing). That said, he's an atrocious user, when not trying to aggrandize the subject of an article, he's over-complicating section headings (one he made something like 15-20 words) and ridiculously persnickety about established "years active" and "date recorded" etc type entries. To say nothing of the hilarious message he left me on my talk page because I kept removing an album he listed on Big L's discography that was clearly already listed. I support a block, but he'd just make a new account. JesseRafe (talk) 16:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Medeis hatting and deletions on the ref desks
Dear all, I am requesting that User:Medeis be banned from removing or hatting anything on the reference desks. I have problems with her other contributions, but this is by far the biggest, and the only one that really warrants a solution. (Note: I believe Medeis has previously said she is female, hence the pronoun "she"). Her removals and hattings are objectionable to many people, and take up a lot of time on the ref desk talk page. Every time I read the talk page, there is another long thread about something she has removed. This costs an inordinate amount of time, and always results in a deluge of words, and a lot of tension. The latest example is this:
Furthermore, the edit summary for the first deletion said: "I am not a holocaust denialist, nor a believer in conspiracy theory: {{WP:DENY]] this is not he first trolling by noopolo)". This contains the accusation of "trolling", which is bizarre and unsubstantiated in this case. The question by Noopolo strikes me as incredibly legitimate, and very interesting. What's more, it was answered well, with posts that I found highly informative. I have for a long time wanted to know the nitty gritty of these things, because I trust that holocaust deniers are wrong, but I think it is better to be armed with facts, and whilst I can consult the articles, ref desk posts give me a pithy initial summary, for the sake of a quick overview.
Another problem here is that Medeis claims to be following Bold, Revert, Discuss, as witness this diff: [39]. I do not see anything resembling BRD here - Medeis has been bold twice in quick succession, not at all the correct procedure.
The thread on the ref desk talk page is becoming very long. Furthermore, all these problems seem to cause enormous tension among editors, but they always seem to start with Medeis. Some people agree with her deletions, so I say, if so, let them take the lead. Consequently, because of the enormous amount of time constantly consumed by Medeis, I request that this user be indefinitely banned from hatting or removing posts on the ref desks. This is the only sanction I request, and it would not stop her from requesting hatting or deletion on the ref desk talk page, or contributing to such discussions.
Note this previous attempt to deal with Medeis, just one among many: [40]
Thanks all, IBE (talk) 09:21, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- When did you last participate in a ref desk talk page discussion on these issues? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- This has been an ongoing problem on the reference desks for a long time. μηδείς/Medeis deletes or hats questions or discussions that they decide are inappropriate, even in the face of overwhelming consensus that the material in question should be allowed. I do not understand why this has been allowed to go on for so long.
- There is zero downside to topic-banning μηδείς/Medeis from any modification of another person's comments. The reference desks are full of trustworthy people who can and will deal with those comments that really need to be removed or hatted, such as asking for legal/medical advice. We simply do not need μηδείς/Medeis as the self-appointed sheriff of the reference desks, constantly making contentious closures. The word "loose cannon" comes to mind. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:53, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- There has been ongoing debate for many years about when or if to hat/delete, and in fact there are ongoing discussions about it right now at the ref desk talk page - which is what that talk page is for, don'cha know. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I believe further research is needed. Forever. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:56, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I support the proposal to deal with Medeis in this manner. What we have here is an editor who pops up with an assertion that some IP editor is some well-known miscreant - and without evidence or discussion either deletes, hat or harasses that person. Medeis is trying to take the role of an Admin, without going through the necessary hoops to gain that status and without understanding the mechanisms by which sock-puppetry is dealt with. I'm quite sure that this is well-intentioned, but very often (at least half the time), the community consensus is that Medeis is incorrect or has overreacted. That causes yet another huge debate about her actions to break out on the talk page, typically resulting in widespread condemnation of Medeis' actions. This is evidence (IMHO) that this is a case of WP:DISRUPT that should be dealt with accordingly.
- However, (as I've frequently stated) the underlying issue is that the reference desks do not have a simple, comprehensible, set of guidelines as to what to do with problematic posts from possibly dubious editors. So it's hard for the community to say "Medeis: You broke rule 27(b), please don't do that again." - or "Admins: This is the 23rd time Medeis broke rule 27(b), please apply a topic ban." Our inability to get the community to get into a goal-directed discussion about a decent set of guidelines, despite the evident relish in fighting each action on a case-by-case basis, is puzzling and extremely frustrating to me.
- So while I definitely support dealing with Medeis, she is just the outlier in a spectrum of confusing responses to inappropriate questions at WP:RD. If we had those clear guidelines, then an admin would have taken action a long time ago.
- SteveBaker (talk) 17:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Ok, all very pertinent, Steve, but you have said before that the problem is that people disagree on the interpretation anyway. (I hope I'm not misinterpreting you, but somewhere you said to Medeis, when she advanced a similar-sounding idea, that you disagree with almost all her hattings.) The point is that people always claim to be following certain rules (as interpreted by them), so I don't see how to get a single set of effective rules in place. We would need a competent authority to carry them out, and the devil here is in the detail - deciding what counts as this or that problem (per your flowchart on the ref desk talk page) is (I believe) a big part of the problem. If you want to revise those guidelines and include the concept of some kind of chain of command for more drastic actions (a bit like the suggestion of letting only admins hat or delete) I'd be interested. At the same time, let's remember it's complicated in its own right, and should be discussed as a separate proposal. This one is only about one editor, and you have summed up my reasons very neatly, better than I could have put it. IBE (talk) 05:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
All of this needs to be handled on the ref desk talk page. Dragging it here is nothing more than grandstanding. There are a few different areas of conflict:
- There is a rule against giving professional advice. Medeis errs on the (sometimes extreme) side of caution. If there is disagreement about it, that's what the talk page is for. Where it gets complicated is the involvement of users who range from not going to the extreme, all the way to disagreeing with the rule itself.
- Random trolling is another negotiable matter for the talk page. There's a risk of "feeding the troll", but generally there's consensus on obvious trolling.
- Banned users are not allowed to edit. Again, there are persistent arguments which seek to ignore that rule. But again, that's negotiable. The complication comes with editors who are less experienced in dealing with banned users and are unwillingly to show good faith toward those who know the M.O. of these users. And then it gets messy and annoying, as all the back-and-forth does nothing except feed the banned troll.
You can talk about rules and guidelines and decision trees every day and twice on Sunday, but none of that fixes the core problems I've listed above. If you're going ban Medeis for executing the "Bold" part of BRD, then you should also ban the users who insist on the "R" part as well. The solution would seem to be to decide on when to bring a hat or deletion to the talk page. This does not belong on ANI. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Our guidelines say we don't engage in debate or speculation, but the first two diffs provided above start with "I am not a holocaust denialist but..." whereas me saying their are certain editors who show up only to criticize me and a few other editors (and I am not talking about the person with whom I am engaged in an IBAN) isn't even a matter of dispute, it's an observation by me. The problem in general is that we come to conclusions on the talk page that trolling should just be deleted without comment, because a talk page discussion draws more attention. Then, when that opinion is followed, someone complains there was no discussion and the cycle goes around and around.
- As for myself "acting like an admin", I am not the only person who follows the guidelines about removing material by known block-evading trolls, etc., and I follow consensus of the desk when an edit I make is reversed. See, for example, this thread on people with Autism and Down's Syndrome where I suggest half way down the thread that the person may be trolling us, only at the end for him to admit it and mock us, before I then closed the thread.
- The ref desk needs objective rules that apply equally to everyone. Some of those rules already govern all of main space, no BLP violations, No professional advice, comments by banned users may be removed on sight. Other issues are judgment calls and I do not reverse them when consensus is against me at the talk page. If one of them is to be that only an admin can hat or delete a discussion, that's fine with me. μηδείς (talk) 18:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose topic ban - Per Baseball Bugs. I can begin imagine (but will not make) a good-faith (though not necessarily good) case for 1rr on the refdesks, but Medeis usually does removals or hatting that needs to be done. Sometimes overly cautious? Yes. Disruptive? That's certainly an "it takes two to tango" deal here. Ian.thomson (talk) 18:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot see your point about "it takes two to tango". A large number of people have expressed their dislike of Medeis' hatting. You give no examples about what constitutes being merely "overly cautious". I said in my OP that it is one editor consuming a huge amount of time from excessive hatting/ removal. The case I gave is a classic example. There is nothing resembling excessive caution there. It is just an absurd reaction to the question, containing as it does an unsubstantiated accusation of trolling by Medeis against Noopolo. Perhaps there is a history there, but nothing was offered as an explanation, other than the characterisation of "trolling". I see no "tangoing" and have never had any desire to engage Medeis in confrontation. Neither have a number of editors who have used the legitimate processes to deal with another editor. My claim about wasted time by many editors amounts to exactly that complaint, that we desperately don't want to tango, but we don't want the nuisance caused by a single outlier either. If you believe in the hattings, I said that it would be fine for others to take the lead. This doesn't look like an attempt to tango, I feel. IBE (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- If BRD is followed, Medeis hats or removes, it is reverted, Medeis might choose to discuss, no one is forced to discuss, and the hat/removal fails for lack of consensus. No one's time is "wasted" unless they choose to "waste" it, beyond the time it takes to perform one undo (about 15 seconds including the editsum). Medeis says that she follows and respects this system and I haven't seen anyone bring proof that she does not. Sorry but your argument is full of holes. ―Mandruss☎ 08:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I gave the example in the original post. Two removals, in quick succession, and a direct claim to be following BRD. But I might have messed something up, so please quietly alert me to a blunt error, if I have made one. IBE (talk) 14:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I wondered whether I should say this, but I decided it was so obvious as to be unnecessary. We don't drag people to ANI for one or two (or even three over a period of time) lapses of judgment. Show me a pattern of misbehavior, please, where BRD has been violated in hatting and removal. ―Mandruss☎ 15:14, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you think this is only a few instances, spend some time scanning the ref desk talk page archives for the past five years. Or just google /reference desk talk medeis delete/. You can also or restrict to inurl:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk, etc. E.g. here [41][42] are a few hits, and I especially like this one, [43] where Medeis goes off in ALL CAPS about how a question is an "invitation to debate", when in fact it is a question about specific citable historical facts, asked by a well-established and productive editor. Here's a talk thread about bad hatting and deleting by Medeis from 2013 [44]. This archive has lots of Medeis not acting like a pleasant team player [45] I have better things to do than google trawl for every time Medeis has caused disruption based on aggressive policing, but if you're genuinely curious, WP and google have all the history you need to get the example behavior straight from the source. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've been under the mistaken impression that BRD has been in place at the refdesks. Taking in all of this discussion, it appears that's not the case. You can't fault Medeis for the fact that there have been no clear rules; that is the fault of the community. I'm proposing the use of BRD and Medeis has made a very clear statement below (02:59, 23 Feb) that she will abide by BRD if it is accepted. If the rules are clear and Medeis breaks her own promise to follow them, THEN you have an ANI case. Not until then. That should be all that is necessary to end this discussion now. And Medeis is spot on when she conditions her promise on application of the BRD rule to everyone. If you bring her back to ANI for BRD violations and she can show spotty or selective enforcement, the case should be thrown out. That is the only way this can work. ―Mandruss☎ 04:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Its use is inconsistent. Also, BRD is not the way to deal with a banned user. As has been said numerous times on the ref desk talk page, by various users, removal of questions by banned users should be as low-key as possible. The newer users need to show good faith in the editor doing the removal, rather than arguing about it as too often happens, thus feeding the banned user. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:52, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've been under the mistaken impression that BRD has been in place at the refdesks. Taking in all of this discussion, it appears that's not the case. You can't fault Medeis for the fact that there have been no clear rules; that is the fault of the community. I'm proposing the use of BRD and Medeis has made a very clear statement below (02:59, 23 Feb) that she will abide by BRD if it is accepted. If the rules are clear and Medeis breaks her own promise to follow them, THEN you have an ANI case. Not until then. That should be all that is necessary to end this discussion now. And Medeis is spot on when she conditions her promise on application of the BRD rule to everyone. If you bring her back to ANI for BRD violations and she can show spotty or selective enforcement, the case should be thrown out. That is the only way this can work. ―Mandruss☎ 04:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you think this is only a few instances, spend some time scanning the ref desk talk page archives for the past five years. Or just google /reference desk talk medeis delete/. You can also or restrict to inurl:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk, etc. E.g. here [41][42] are a few hits, and I especially like this one, [43] where Medeis goes off in ALL CAPS about how a question is an "invitation to debate", when in fact it is a question about specific citable historical facts, asked by a well-established and productive editor. Here's a talk thread about bad hatting and deleting by Medeis from 2013 [44]. This archive has lots of Medeis not acting like a pleasant team player [45] I have better things to do than google trawl for every time Medeis has caused disruption based on aggressive policing, but if you're genuinely curious, WP and google have all the history you need to get the example behavior straight from the source. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I wondered whether I should say this, but I decided it was so obvious as to be unnecessary. We don't drag people to ANI for one or two (or even three over a period of time) lapses of judgment. Show me a pattern of misbehavior, please, where BRD has been violated in hatting and removal. ―Mandruss☎ 15:14, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I gave the example in the original post. Two removals, in quick succession, and a direct claim to be following BRD. But I might have messed something up, so please quietly alert me to a blunt error, if I have made one. IBE (talk) 14:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- If BRD is followed, Medeis hats or removes, it is reverted, Medeis might choose to discuss, no one is forced to discuss, and the hat/removal fails for lack of consensus. No one's time is "wasted" unless they choose to "waste" it, beyond the time it takes to perform one undo (about 15 seconds including the editsum). Medeis says that she follows and respects this system and I haven't seen anyone bring proof that she does not. Sorry but your argument is full of holes. ―Mandruss☎ 08:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot see your point about "it takes two to tango". A large number of people have expressed their dislike of Medeis' hatting. You give no examples about what constitutes being merely "overly cautious". I said in my OP that it is one editor consuming a huge amount of time from excessive hatting/ removal. The case I gave is a classic example. There is nothing resembling excessive caution there. It is just an absurd reaction to the question, containing as it does an unsubstantiated accusation of trolling by Medeis against Noopolo. Perhaps there is a history there, but nothing was offered as an explanation, other than the characterisation of "trolling". I see no "tangoing" and have never had any desire to engage Medeis in confrontation. Neither have a number of editors who have used the legitimate processes to deal with another editor. My claim about wasted time by many editors amounts to exactly that complaint, that we desperately don't want to tango, but we don't want the nuisance caused by a single outlier either. If you believe in the hattings, I said that it would be fine for others to take the lead. This doesn't look like an attempt to tango, I feel. IBE (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Pro-tip When someone says "I am not a <thing>" and then starts to argue about said thing, they are probably not being 100% honest. While Medeis is cautioned not to edit war or ignore consensus I think the whole ref desk area is a bit permissive of trolling. Oppose topic ban and 1RR restriction, our rules against edit warring can be used to keep this in check and frankly the idea of cutting these thing off early should be considered per WP:DENY. Chillum 18:32, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support 1RR
mentioned by Ian.thomson. It seems this is something regularly brought up at the refdesk talk page and has made its way to ANI at least a couple times in the past. Each time -- of those I've seen and/or were part of -- there seems to be a great deal of support for the idea that Medeis should exercise more caution in hatting and/or that his/her aggressive hatting is disruptive. Unfortunately, as far as I've seen anyway, Medeis is persistent in defending his/her actions, so I'm not sure what good more cautioning could possibly do. I'm also sympathetic to the idea that Medeis dedicates a lot of time to the refdesk and hats appropriately a lot of the time, so a 1RR seems like a good solution to prevent the more disruptive instances of hat-warring without preventing hatting in the first place. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 19:04, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- For the record, I do not support 1rr, I only mentioned that as the farthest I could see this going. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose all
Support 1RR - As Rhododendrites states, Medeis does a lot of good work and 1RR seems to be a good solution, a second revert in this type of situation would be questionable at best anyway.Further discussion has changed my mind. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- It can very easily be questionable both ways, however. If we are going to go with 1rr, I'd at least suggest that it's under the stipulation that it must be more than one user who reverts Medeis, not the same user over and over. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support 1RR She treats any topic she find distasteful as a troll and hats or deletes it. Imagine if we did that with Wikipedia articles. StuRat (talk) 19:18, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- This is simply untrue StuRat and here is an example where SemanticMantis hatted you because he didn't "like" your comments on tax policy. I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&diff=next&oldid=647749876 uncovered your comment leaving only the argument between SM and yourself hatted, since your original point was relevant. How does that amount to my hatting things because I dislike them? What evidence do you have of that? μηδείς (talk) 23:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose topic ban - I think at most a stern warning from someone scary with an admin hat is warranted here. Maybe also a trout or possibly even a rather smelly mackerel (The Mark of the Mackerel), though not a whale. Anyway, first and last warning. On a side note, for the purposes of keeping things from being chaotic, can we !vote (or is this a vote?) on one thing at a time? I'm not even sure if we're saying 1RR for Medeis or for the whole refdesk (the latter ought not to be discussed here). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 3 Adar 5775 19:24, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
The community already has a version of 1rr, in that I don't rehat discussions when my hatting is questioned and there's no consensus for it on the talk page. No evidence has been provided otherwise, which is what would have justified bring this here now. But what about cases like this, where my long attempt at engaging with a question was twice hatted, and I removed the hats 12. Would that be a violation of 1rr? Would any actually banned user like Light Current and Bowei Huang or the IP from Toronto who eventually went to my talk page asking me if, as a negress, my intelligence was substandard be allowed to restore a personal attack I deleted? Would I have to come running to ANI every time something like this occurred to get it rectified? And why are we talking about this sanction out of the blue if there's no evidence above of a current problem? As for being consistent in "defending my actions", even if that were true, it amounts to saying I'm guilty because I defend myself. μηδείς (talk) 20:00, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I would Support Medeis' proposal that only admins are allowed to hat or delete RD threads. We have several admins who are active on the reference desks, so there wouldn't be a problem with lack of coverage. However, this rule would need to be strictly enforced, even for the most egregious violations - is the community prepared to apply such a restriction? If so, let's make it official. Tevildo (talk) 23:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose admin-only closure - Yes, we have admin coverage, but it's still kind of like letting admins be the only persons who can remove vandalism from articles. I could begin to consider the idea that admins are the only users who can delete threads that have received responses, and that admins are the only persons who can re-hat de-hatted threads -- but I'm still not suggesting that. Quite frankly, there are a number of refdesk users who are bad at spotting trolls and love giving them attention (hell, I'll even admit that I'm not entirely innocent there). Restricting others from dealing with trolls goes against WP:DENY, WP:BOLD, and WP:IAR. We don't need rules saying you can or cannot remove a thread if that rule is going to enable trolls and punish those who remove trolling. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose admin only closure, support disallowing Medeis to revert when someone reopens her closures. That seems to be the reasonable solution. We should not create situations where admins are allowed to do things that normal users technically can also, but then only allow admins to do. If and when Medeis closes a thread in good faith, if it is reopened Medeis should not close it a second time. That stops all edit wars, and would really remove the locus of the problem. Medeis closes threads in good faith; the issue is the repeated closure of those threads after others disagree. If consensus supports Medeis, others can reclose a reopened thread. If consensus does not support her, she should not be reclosing them. --Jayron32 00:22, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. I would support Jayron32's proposal if "someone" were changed to "anyone". In default of Medeis' threshold for hatting being voluntarily aligned with that of the community (which, IMO, is unlikely to happen), we need to find a method of minimizing its disruptive effects. Would it be considered too inequitable to have a simple "Medeis is not permitted to hat or delete anything" rule? If, as I suspect, it would, allowing any user to revert her misjudgements in this area seems like an acceptable solution, but only if it's understood by all concerned that such reversions are not open to subsequent discussion, and, of course, that it doesn't apply to hatting or deletion by users other than Medeis. SteveBaker's proposal for an unambiguous set of rules might be theoretically superior, but generating those rules isn't going to be easy. Tevildo (talk) 01:18, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Mandruss and I just edit conflicted, so other than emphasizing that the same rules should apply to everybody (assuming disruption is disruption no matter who does it, Tevildo), I will let his statement below stand for mine. μηδείς (talk) 02:59, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thankyou, Tevildo, for a very fair comment. The reason for singling out Medeis was given in my first post here, announcing the ANI. It is because of constant misapplication of the rules, and overzealous hatting/removal, costing enormous time. No other editor costs us this much time. Hence I claim that there is nothing inequitable going on. It would be the same for anyone who acted this way over a long time. It is also a minimalist suggestion, designed to counter only the specific problem. IBE (talk) 05:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. I would support Jayron32's proposal if "someone" were changed to "anyone". In default of Medeis' threshold for hatting being voluntarily aligned with that of the community (which, IMO, is unlikely to happen), we need to find a method of minimizing its disruptive effects. Would it be considered too inequitable to have a simple "Medeis is not permitted to hat or delete anything" rule? If, as I suspect, it would, allowing any user to revert her misjudgements in this area seems like an acceptable solution, but only if it's understood by all concerned that such reversions are not open to subsequent discussion, and, of course, that it doesn't apply to hatting or deletion by users other than Medeis. SteveBaker's proposal for an unambiguous set of rules might be theoretically superior, but generating those rules isn't going to be easy. Tevildo (talk) 01:18, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Seconding this rationale. Exceptional behavior merits exceptional treatment. Minimal changes are best at this point. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support BRD at the refdesks - where a hat/removal is the B and the hatter/remover is the one responsible for starting D if they feel it is important enough to pursue. If the D feeds some trolls, so be it; there is no perfect solution. If Medeis already follows this system, causing no more "disruption" than one revert per problem thread, then this ANI complaint would appear to be without merit. I think a clause against thread double jeopardy would be necessary; if a hat/removal attempt failed, that thread would have to be immune from further hat/removal by the same user, regardless of what happened in it later. Again, not perfect, but better than unlimited bites at the apple. ―Mandruss ☎ 02:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose all as not having any sufficient necessity. unhatting takes but a moment if one is concerned, and there is no strong argument for any punishment for the behaviour which annoys some editors. And I am tired of some of the same folks seeking the same remedies on a monthly basis - all it is, is drama for the sake of drama at that point. (Drama gratia dramatis) Collect (talk) 03:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I see no "drama for the sake of drama". The "same remedies"? No, I think different ones. Can you substantiate this? If I knew about a previous attempt at this remedy, I would not have filed this post. My suggested remedy is a minimalist one, and I have never heard of it before. You are welcome to be tired of us, but there are many of us, and it is because of outlier behaviour, which does not seem in keeping with the need for consensus. Unhatting only takes a moment, but people will rehat, and that causes a nuisance, as I said above. Some of us find the hatting more than vexing, because we can sense the willpower behind it, a feeling that is borne out by later developments, including rehatting and insistent, illogical debate on the talk page. The thread about holocaust deniers, which I linked, is a classic example, including accusations against people for being IPs, and claiming that the thread consists of nothing but debate. It is these later developments, and the sense of a lot of willpower by a single editor, against community consensus, that is causing us extreme annoyance. IBE (talk) 08:50, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose admin only closure. There are plenty of legit closures by other editors, like duplicate Q's. Just because one editor doesn't know when to close a Q doesn't mean all should be banned from doing so. StuRat (talk) 03:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I haven't delved into the whole history of thread-hatting and removing in recent months, but the removal of this particular question strikes me as completely appropriate. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Its appropriateness was for BRD to decide. I'm defending Medeis in this thread, but I don't defend that particular case because it violated BRD. For now, BRD/consensus is the best available solution to this problem, and it needs to be observed. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support preventing Medeis from deleting/hatting posts on the ref desks. Asking nicely, trouting, etc, has proved ineffective, though I do wish that would be all that was necessary. Most every time Medeis does hats/delets, at least one other regular user disagrees, and a bunch of arguing ensues (sometimes it is me who argues about Medeis' shutting down threads). I see this as very disruptive, and often times troll feeding, despite the intent. We have plenty of other users who make deletions/removals that are not contentious. Medeis should let them handle it. Since asking hasn't worked in the past, I suspect sanctions will be necessary to stop this pattern of disruption. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Oppose Topic ban for Medeis,Medeis often has good and useful responses. Often times not, but that behavior can just be ignored, while hatting/deleting disrupts the desks for everybody. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You do realize that we are only discussing topic-banning μηδείς/Medeis from hatting or deleting other people's comments while allowing her to do everything else she normally does, right? --Guy Macon (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oops, sorry about that, I thought "topic ban" meant banning from the ref desks. Now stricken. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- You do realize that we are only discussing topic-banning μηδείς/Medeis from hatting or deleting other people's comments while allowing her to do everything else she normally does, right? --Guy Macon (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support Admin-only closure - mostly just because I honestly think deletion causes far more strife than any trolls. Trolls hate AGF, good referenced answers, and being ignored. Deleting is none of those. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:45, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. I very nearly ignored this, but I'm alarmed at some discussion above that sounds like a back-door plan to introduce some sort of policy, or unneeded admin oversight, at the Refdesk. The only thing wrong on the Refdesks is when people try to play admin. Dumb, incomprehensible, or troll questions can easily be ignored; they're just "roughage" and no real problem to anyone. Either you waste your time answering or you don't. Is it bad for Medeis to play admin? Yes. But not any worse than when anyone else does. Whoever comes in with big plans for reform this, ban that, enforce this, block that ... they do nothing but harm. So make your decision about Medeis personally as you see fit, but please don't mess with the Refdesk. Wnt (talk) 21:11, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Wnt hit the nail on the head. There is zero downside to topic-banning μηδείς/Medeis from deleting or collapsing other people's comments -- there are at least a dozen well-respected users who are doing that without the controversial decisions -- but all sorts of potential downside to changing how the refdesks work just to deal with one disruptive editor. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- So, Guy, what you are suggesting is that rather than BRD, I should bring every request for closure to an admin board? What exactly are you pointing to as a problem here? Wnt's opinion that the medical industry (see his comments on testosterone) is a monopolistic scam are well known. Where have I acted according to our medical disclaimer, then refused to accept consensus when my action has been reverted? Where is any evidence for this entire thread so that uninvolved admins can observe it? μηδείς (talk) 00:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I believe what some people are suggesting is that they'd prefer if you didn't care at all about (micro-)managing the desks, and limited your contributions to the reference desks to answers and questions, but not hatting and removing (and, to a lesser degree, not adding mid-thread comments on a question's appropriateness or a querent's sincerity). The reason some editors are suggesting this lies in the number of your interferences that have irritated (and sometimes been reverted by) a number of regular editors. The fact, that you don't mind adding opinionated comment when you so see fit has added to some contributors' irritation (or resignation). I find it hard to understand how you couldh't have noticed this by now. ---Sluzzelintalk 01:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you're saying some ref desk regulars would rather not enforce the rules against professional advice, for example, then you're right. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 01:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Wait, are you telling me that editors working at the Reference Desk are okay with giving out professional advice, even when they have no professional credentials? This really opens up problems for Wikipedia and does no service to readers who come there with questions. There should be no shoot-from-the-hip answers to medical, legal, business or career questions that come up. LizRead! Talk! 02:21, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- No, this isn't the issue. Most of us are happy with the current guidelines at WP:RD/G/M. The problem is with Medeis' hatting and deletion of "trolling", as she perceives it: her standards of what constitutes "trolling" do not match those of the majority of Reference Desk regulars. If Medeis would restrict her actions to medical and legal advice as defined in the guidelines, the problem would be greatly reduced (if not entirely eliminated). Tevildo (talk) 03:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Wait, are you telling me that editors working at the Reference Desk are okay with giving out professional advice, even when they have no professional credentials? This really opens up problems for Wikipedia and does no service to readers who come there with questions. There should be no shoot-from-the-hip answers to medical, legal, business or career questions that come up. LizRead! Talk! 02:21, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you're saying some ref desk regulars would rather not enforce the rules against professional advice, for example, then you're right. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 01:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I believe what some people are suggesting is that they'd prefer if you didn't care at all about (micro-)managing the desks, and limited your contributions to the reference desks to answers and questions, but not hatting and removing (and, to a lesser degree, not adding mid-thread comments on a question's appropriateness or a querent's sincerity). The reason some editors are suggesting this lies in the number of your interferences that have irritated (and sometimes been reverted by) a number of regular editors. The fact, that you don't mind adding opinionated comment when you so see fit has added to some contributors' irritation (or resignation). I find it hard to understand how you couldh't have noticed this by now. ---Sluzzelintalk 01:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- It's not that simple. There are also editors who are perfectly willing to allow banned users to edit. And when an experienced editor recognizes such a user's M.O., you get some editors exhibiting bad faith toward the editor who recognizes it, and start talking about starting an SPI, which is a fool's errand and only feeds the banned editor. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- (ec)Well, yes, Tevildo, this is exactly the issue raised above. Liz, we have various editors who argue regularly that a question is "interesting" and that if it had been worded in some other way it wouldn't violate our ban on giving professional advice. We recently had a discussion Snow Rise started at the reference desk talk page about whether licensed veterinary advice was a violation of the Wikipedia:General_disclaimer even though the opinion that veterinary advice is forbidden has been consensus since at least 2007.
- We have three issues here. (1) A total lack of evidence that I have recently or materially violated BRD, or am acting in bad faith. (2) A significant number of contributers here who think that questioners who can be "ignored" (although they never are) who never disobey policy, only regulars following policy that is a problem, and (3) a "content" dispute over posts which certain people would rather settle by limiting my editting rather than having a set of rules that apply equally to ("at least a dozen well-respected users") all.
- The solutions are twofold: an objective set of criteria, and equal application of those criteria to all, including those who ask at the desks, and those who work there. μηδείς (talk) 04:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Re: "So, Guy, what you are suggesting is that rather than BRD, I should bring every request for closure to an admin board?", No, I am suggesting that you get out of the business of deciding what stays and what goes. You are really, really bad at it, and there are at least a dozen people who are good at it who should be allowed to do -- well -- what you are doing -- badly. You would still be allowed to call for something to be deleted or hatted. You would still be allowed to answer or ignore questions. You just wouldn't be allowed to do the one thing that you suck at. How many different editors have to take you to ANI before you get the point? Just stop, now, voluntarily, and save us all another million words of debating. --07:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I couldn't disagree more. In mainspace, WP:BRD and WP:CONSENSUS, when followed and enforced, do a pretty good job of protecting articles from editors whose edits do not improve the encyclopedia. Can they be gamed? Absolutely. Anything can be gamed (and whatever Medeis's shortcomings, I don't see deliberately gaming the system as one of them, in any case). We don't selectively exclude editors who agree to observe BRD, no matter how bad their judgment. Medeis has agreed to observe BRD provided it applies to all, a perfectly reasonable expectation and condition.
- What is the absolute worst case result of this proposal? What is its maximum downside? Well, zero discussion is required to simply allow a disputed edit to fail for lack of consensus. Medeis can open a discussion, but no one is forced to participate in it. If she then hatted or removed every thread on every refdesk, and if every such action were inappropriate, the time cost would be less than 15 minutes per day, the time it takes to undo approximately 56 edits (8 threads times 7 desks). That's your worst case, and one that we would obviously never approach. We have already spent more time in this discussion than we would likely spend reverting Medeis in a month.
- We need to take a collective deep breath, stand back, and give existing processes a chance to work as they were designed to work. As far as I can tell this has not been tried consistently and evenly at the refdesks; correct me if I'm wrong. ―Mandruss ☎ 08:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Re: "So, Guy, what you are suggesting is that rather than BRD, I should bring every request for closure to an admin board?", No, I am suggesting that you get out of the business of deciding what stays and what goes. You are really, really bad at it, and there are at least a dozen people who are good at it who should be allowed to do -- well -- what you are doing -- badly. You would still be allowed to call for something to be deleted or hatted. You would still be allowed to answer or ignore questions. You just wouldn't be allowed to do the one thing that you suck at. How many different editors have to take you to ANI before you get the point? Just stop, now, voluntarily, and save us all another million words of debating. --07:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Why do you keep citing the disclaimer, at strongest, the disclaimer should be taken to say "We aren't claiming this is professional advice". A disclaimer would be something like "Enter at your own risk", which would mean, you assume risk by entering; it would not mean, "People inside will prevent you from entering, and are obliged to do so", or whatever. I'm not even saying your general point was/is wrong about the issue you are referencing, but please stop citing a disclaimer as if they were rules - or, if that is how Wikipedia really means them, let's rename the page, because that's not what a disclaimer generally means.Phoenixia1177 (talk) 11:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose any sanction on μηδείς. Boldly hatting is fine and there is really no evidence of disuption or edit warring. Relegating a simple task such as hatting to "no big deal" admins is ludicrous. Close/ --DHeyward (talk) 07:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Reluctant support for TBAN or one-revert limit for Medeis, with regard to hatting discussions and removing the edits of another contributor - As one of the RefDesk contributors who has argued most stringently for a cautious and restrictive approach to the professional advice issue, I appreciate Medeis' general concerns and I have no doubt that she takes these actions in good faith and, in each case, in manner that she believes to be consistent with policy. That being said, this ongoing and highly disruptive situation demonstrates that she lacks to the ability to respect the general consensus of her fellow contributors with regard to these circumstances. It's all well and good to say that, in any given scenario, she seems to be acting within the spectrum of good-faith, if toward the extremes, but we long ago passed the point where she should have started to recognize the situations in which she was adopting a WP:SNOW position. Even if she is absolutely certain her interpretation of policy is in the right, and that she's acting in the best interests of the project (and never had cause to doubt that she is acting from this frame of mind), she seems to lack the ability to see (or at least accept) when she is about to take an action in these contexts which is in essence identical the last dozen which the consensus of her fellow editors found to be excessive/in error. The fact that she cannot see that there is nothing to be gained by trying to force her standard approach to these situation, aside from a great deal of wasted energy on the part of numerous contributors, is problematic in the extreme.
- Again, I share many of Medeis' priorities here, but if my actions were the subject of a half-dozen separate talk page discussions, wherein they were generally being regarded as excessive by a large number of other editors, I'd be moderating my approach some, especially if said actions were in the vein of altering other contributor's comments, which is a behaviour that editors are by and large meant to be avoiding outside of great necessity. It's true that the standards in question here are open to some degree of interpretation, but that does not in itself stop Medeis from recognizing when her perspectives are out of sync with the significant majority of her fellow editors and adjusting her approach accordingly. The fact that she has gotten considerable feed/push-back on this particular issue, via numerous discussions and is, if anything, pushing the boundaries in the same area with increasing abandon, suggests that she will not stop on this issue unless she receives an unambiguous mandate, unfortunately.
- Thoroughly oppose (policy-inconsistent) suggestion of admin-only closures First off, since no one else has pointed this out, I think it needs to be recognized that we, the small collection of editors in this discussion, do not have the authority to implement such a ruling to begin with. The standards which govern when it is acceptable to close down a discussion or to alter the contents of another editor's contributions are the subject of broad community consensus and we are not allowed to create idiosyncratic approaches to these situations which limit or modify those standards in a given space without soliciting broad community discussion to reach a new consensus and alter the relevant policies accordingly (regardless of whether said change in policy applies to all areas of the project broadly or just specific scenarios/spaces). Deciding to apply a unique standard to our area of operation is not allowable and is a notion that ArbCom has already had disabuse several WikiProjects of in recent time; going down that road here is not only a non-starter, but likely to amp the drama up another few notches. Nowhere on the project, that I'm aware of, have these actions been regarded as the sole purview of administrators.
- But even putting aside the fact that this procedurally not allowed, I don't see the utility either; the vast, vast, vast majority of our contributors at the Ref Desks who have occasionally hatted a problematic discussion do so only on rare occasion and without creating a ruckus. I dare say a majority of these actions are found to be in the best interests of the project and consistent with our guidelines and are not reversed. Medeis' suggestion of "fine, but if I can't do it, then the standard should be shared by all and no one should be able to do it" does not hold water to me, as this discussion is meant to consider whether her behaviours in this regard are problematic, not whether such actions are ever appropriate from editors without admin privileges; policy and the community consensus clearly say that they sometimes are, but that these actions should be approached with intense caution and reservation. For the rest of our contributors who, by and large, observe that restraint, these actions are not problematic and I don't see the point of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here (again, if we were even empowered to in this discussion, which we are not). Snow I take all complaints in the form of epic rap battles 08:10, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support 1RR for ALL editors, not just singling out / scapegoating one. But make an exception when the edit summary is WP:DENY, which telegraphs the removal of comments by a banned user or perennial troll. That type of removal should NOT be reverted. Some discrete discussion (probably off-wiki) could be had with the user who removed it. Arguing about it on the ref desk talk page is counterproductive. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 14:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Singling out is exactly what this thread is about. There is no scapegoating, it is a simple fact that Medeis has dozens of times deleted/hatted things inappropriately, and many of us find that to be disruptive. It especially disruptive since it is an ongoing pattern of behavior. It is even more disruptive because all polite requests to stop doing that have been ignored. If one of my students acts up in class, I deal with that student, I don't change the rules for everyone else. It's really simple. Most of the ref desk regulars do not have multiple complaints about their behavior, and Medeis does. This outstanding behavior is exactly why Medeis is being singled out. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Even so, if you impose 1RR on Medeis, and not on the other editors, it IS scapegoating. The original complainant here hadn't even commented on the ref desk talk page recently. It's grandstanding, an "end around" play. In short, it's a bad-faith complaint. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- A few minutes ago, another editor pointed out some typical debate-seeking questions from a Toronto-based troll, or "Toron-troll". Dollars to donuts, someone will revert my hatting on some ridiculous grounds. And if they do, those folks should be sanctioned for it. Their lack of vigilance does not serve the ref desk well. Medeis sometimes over-vigilance doesn't really bother anyone except the troll enablers. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think you know what scapegoat means. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- A few minutes ago, another editor pointed out some typical debate-seeking questions from a Toronto-based troll, or "Toron-troll". Dollars to donuts, someone will revert my hatting on some ridiculous grounds. And if they do, those folks should be sanctioned for it. Their lack of vigilance does not serve the ref desk well. Medeis sometimes over-vigilance doesn't really bother anyone except the troll enablers. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Even so, if you impose 1RR on Medeis, and not on the other editors, it IS scapegoating. The original complainant here hadn't even commented on the ref desk talk page recently. It's grandstanding, an "end around" play. In short, it's a bad-faith complaint. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Singling out is exactly what this thread is about. There is no scapegoating, it is a simple fact that Medeis has dozens of times deleted/hatted things inappropriately, and many of us find that to be disruptive. It especially disruptive since it is an ongoing pattern of behavior. It is even more disruptive because all polite requests to stop doing that have been ignored. If one of my students acts up in class, I deal with that student, I don't change the rules for everyone else. It's really simple. Most of the ref desk regulars do not have multiple complaints about their behavior, and Medeis does. This outstanding behavior is exactly why Medeis is being singled out. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Bugs, putting aside for a moment why you think all editors should be held to the same standard we are trying to apply for one editor who is particularly disruptive in this area, you need to understand that this is just not an option that we are empowered to mandate here. Wikipedia already has standards which govern when the average editor can and cannot perform actions like hatting and removal of another user's comments. The editors in a given content or discussion space are simply not allowed to create unique rules governing such behaviour that apply only to them in their favourite space. In order to affect that change, you need to seek broad community involvement the alter the relevant policies. We cannot simply decide to change the rules on our own, whether it means make the rules more permissive or more restrictive. That's just not the way Wikipedia works. We obey the same rules as the rest of the project and only in cases where policy says as much do separate rules apply to separate spaces. Snow I take all complaints in the form of epic rap battles 18:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I would like to call to everyone's attention to Wikipedia:Help desk, where we manage to get by just fine without any self-appointed sheriffs deleting questions that they don't like. these include:
- Legal threats/BLP issues: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2015 February 5#request for correction of errors and defamation
- Misplaced vandalism reports: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2015 January 12#"Sickle"
- Misplaced content disputes: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 December 20#"HANDS UP" FALSE NARRATIVE
- Requests for medical advice: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 December 1#Audio illutions
- Questions written in other languages: Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 November 24#لماذا تم حذف صفحتي؟
What few content deletions we have are 100% uncontroversial and generate zero drama.[46] In all other cases, the question gets answered, even if the answer is "You are in the wrong place; the right place is X" or "That's not a question Wikipedia can answer".
Perhaps western civilization won't collapse if μηδείς/Medeis is banned from deleting questions/discussions that she doesn't like... I'm just saying. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hear, hear! SemanticMantis (talk) 20:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think this thread should be put to bed. It's especially objectionable when we get sarcastic remarks like the immediate above that offer no evidence of edit warring on my part to be met with "hear hear" by SemanticMantis who calls for sanctions against me for hatting, yet here he closes part of a thread he doesn't like even after participating in it himself.
- For those uninvolved admins unfamiliar with the so called toronto troll, the user's MO has been start threads about "why do blackk people..." "why do Jewish people..." and then segue into offensive material. I've never (I believe) found it necessary to hat that user, but one can look at the question https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Medeis&diff=prev&oldid=583257615 "How does it feel to be a negress? Do you find it hard on yourself because your race genetically has average 85 IQ?" on my talk page from a bit over a year ago. This is the kind of user whose Ref Desk questions we are told should be ignored, rather than deleted or hatted.
- I'd also like to point out to uninvolved admins this archived discussion "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Reference_desk/Archive_111#my_stuff_keeps_getting_deleted My stuff keeps getting deleted" where a now indeffed user complains his edits about making water come out of his mouth by inserting water up his anus were hatted, Tevildo repeated the recent decision that such trolling should be deleted without comment: "these things only work if we _delete_ the offending content and _don't_ have these endless post-mortems about it". I did only then delete the thread, but User Wnt, who wants me sanctioned above, called us "the ethics trolls" and proceeded even further against consensus to answer the question not on the ref desk, but the talk page.
- I'd also like to point out to uninvolved admins there's currently 33,000 bytes of discussion going on at the Ref Desk about hatting, etc., with all sorts of rancor, none of which accuses me of any wrongdoing, and in which I have not participated since I am under inquest here.
- I'd also like to point out that the IP from Toronto who asked me about my intelligence as a negress has apparently returned here with a race baiting question about how dangerous Sweden is because it allows mixed race dating, yet SemanticMantis unhatted another post on the same board as part of his dispute with BBB, while I remain silent.
- Before getting into TLDR, let me summarize. There's no evidence of my edit warring or acting in bad faith. The rules call for hatting or deleting certain questions. Those rules can be changed or borderline questions discussed if necessary; content disputes don't belong here. There's a 33kb discussion about this elsewhere. We simply need clear rules that apply equally to all. μηδείς (talk) 04:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC) μηδείς (talk) 03:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The fact that you think this is about edit warring just shows that you don't get it and likely never will without being topic banned from deleting/hatting other people's comments.
- Snow explained it better than I could in his comment above:
- "As one of the RefDesk contributors who has argued most stringently for a cautious and restrictive approach to the professional advice issue, I appreciate Medeis' general concerns and I have no doubt that she takes these actions in good faith and, in each case, in manner that she believes to be consistent with policy. That being said, this ongoing and highly disruptive situation demonstrates that she lacks to the ability to respect the general consensus of her fellow contributors with regard to these circumstances. It's all well and good to say that, in any given scenario, she seems to be acting within the spectrum of good-faith, if toward the extremes, but we long ago passed the point where she should have started to recognize the situations in which she was adopting a WP:SNOW position. Even if she is absolutely certain her interpretation of policy is in the right, and that she's acting in the best interests of the project (and never had cause to doubt that she is acting from this frame of mind), she seems to lack the ability to see (or at least accept) when she is about to take an action in these contexts which is in essence identical the last dozen which the consensus of her fellow editors found to be excessive/in error. The fact that she cannot see that there is nothing to be gained by trying to force her standard approach to these situation, aside from a great deal of wasted energy on the part of numerous contributors, is problematic in the extreme."
- "Again, I share many of Medeis' priorities here, but if my actions were the subject of a half-dozen separate talk page discussions, wherein they were generally being regarded as excessive by a large number of other editors, I'd be moderating my approach some, especially if said actions were in the vein of altering other contributor's comments, which is a behaviour that editors are by and large meant to be avoiding outside of great necessity. It's true that the standards in question here are open to some degree of interpretation, but that does not in itself stop Medeis from recognizing when her perspectives are out of sync with the significant majority of her fellow editors and adjusting her approach accordingly. The fact that she has gotten considerable feed/push-back on this particular issue, via numerous discussions and is, if anything, pushing the boundaries in the same area with increasing abandon, suggests that she will not stop on this issue unless she receives an unambiguous mandate, unfortunately." (quote from snow, 08:10, 24 February 2015 (UTC) )
- Feel free to call me Medeis, the Greek letters are simply to make it easier for me to find my comments. Rather than answer your rhetorical lawyering (since expecting me to argue endlessly is a trap) I would ask you how you respond to Ian.thomson, Inediblehulk, Mandruss, Chillum, Mlpearc, Flinders Petrie, Baseball Bugs, Collect, Liz, DHeyward above, and even SteveBaker (who properly argues for clear rules for all) above? (That's rhetorical, so please don't.) I will point out that the Ref Desks are not talk pages, and they are under the same restrictions as mainspace; BLP, etc. I'll also repeat that I am happy to follow the same rules as everyone else, assuming we adopt 1RR or deletion by Admins only, or keep the BRD status quo. μηδείς (talk) 05:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support any and all proposed limitations on Medeis be that a 1RR without exceptions or a complete ban on hatting/closures. Oppose admin only closure/hatting idea as being fundamentally opposed to the way wikipedia works, and the purpose of admins on wikipedia. Also weakly oppose a 1RR for all editors.
I haven't posted yet, primarily because it didn't look like this discussion was going anywhere. Also, I did entertain the notion of bring more evidence to, but decided I couldn't be bothered, and the state of this discussion meant it wouldn't be useful.
I will say I think Medeis is being misleading when they suggest they already follow BRD. This example shows a double closure, there's at least one other very recent case here [47] [48]. It's true that in that case the editor who reverted Medeis was the poster themselves, but that's still beyond the BRD cycle. Now the IP in this latest case is a well known RD troll. (I use the term loosely because I'm not certain if they're a genuine troll, or just a racist editor who likes to call people negress although I suspect they are a troll for a number of reasons.) However it wasn't entirely clear at the time if it was the same editor. More to the point, Medeis's stated reasons for closing didn't mention that, but the suggestion the IP was trying to draw us in to an off wiki debate. That didn't make sense for numerous reasons, including that the blog itself is largely dead. (It also doesn't seem to be part of the trolls MO.) It got even more confusing when I reversed the deletion since Medeis said that they thought the IP was trying to draw traffic the blog which as I explained there, made no sense. Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 112#Closure reverted.
It's true sometimes trolls and other problem editors hang around and revert any attempt to remove their trolling so it's completely normal that editors may sometimes have to revert the original editor. But Medeis's judgement is so poor they really shouldn't be removing/hatting anything, let alone doing it twice no matter who the person who reverted them.
As a loosely related example which I'm only using because I just saw this [49] comment is weird. While I have no problem with the removal of the question from a blocked editor, there's nothing in the OPs question to suggest anything similar to Bowei Huang. (Bowei Huang did occassional ask about stuff relating to the world, but not anything like potty training.)
There is a complicating thing on the Ref Desk namely that there is no status quo. In the case of an article, while it can be complicated, generally BRD means you stay with the status quo, whether someone deletes something, or adds it to the article, that's the bold part which may be reverted leading to discussion. On the Ref Desk, if someone adds a question, or a response, that's not counted as the "bold" part. Removing this response or question is. The upshot of this is that when someone reverts your removal of their response or question, it's much difficult to say that editor isn't following BRD themselves unlike it would be in the article (not that that justifies you not following BRD anyway).
Another difference has already been hinted at by other editors. If someone goes around making bold edits throughout the encyclopaedia, but then never bothers to justify them or when they do, has really poor justification, this isn't generally going to be taken well. Yet Medeis and others above have suggested that it's fine for Medeis to go around making these edits, because they're only bold, and they're in fact probably not going to bother to discuss it. I'm not saying this is wrong, simply that we have to be careful in understanding how BRD works and why it works differently.
Anyway back to the main point, while these are only 2 examples, I'm fairly sure there are more relatively recent cases. And definitely there are way more poor closures from Medeis.
Which is my final point. While experienced editors have no problems finding something from the history (although if you don't know who posted it it can be difficult as the RD is fairly active), nor reverting hats or closures, it's likely confusing, not to mention uninviting to newbies. I'm all for removing genuine trolling etc, to the disagreement of an number of other RD regulars, but I also do appreciate the harm such actions can cause newbies. So we shouldn't think of a bold closure or removal which is very poor as having no impact, just because it's trivial for experienced editors to fix.
Call for Close
As is our tradition, no admin at ANI is willing to stop μηδείς/Medeis from continuing this behavior, a large number of other editors are unwilling to accept the behavior without asking ANI for help, and a slightly smaller but still significant number of editors are perfectly fine with the behavior. The traditional parallel discussion at the ref desk talk page is, again according to our longstanding tradition, going nowhere. We might as well close this discussion and wait for the next one, then the one after that, etc. --Guy Macon (talk) 08:51, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- That sounds like a very fair summary. I thought this would work, because it is a minimalist proposal, but the situation seems roughly 50-50. Quite happy to call it a day on this one, although I am still hopeful an admin will agree with the plan. However, if people are looking at taking this further, the other suggestion I had was to compel Medeis to log every closure or hat, on a separate, single wiki page. That would stop us having to trawl through the archives to prove a case, since we could refer to that page for future actions. I avoided it because it is frightfully slow - it takes one ANI to require the logging, and then further ANI's for specific sanctions. If someone wants to start such a motion in the future, assuming there is no improvement, I believe that is the next port of call with ANI's regarding this user, at least as far as "minimalist" suggestions are concerned. IBE (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure medeis won't specifically document their own bad behavior for us. I wouldn't even support such compulsion, e.g. pleading the fifth. So if you'd like you can start a list of documentation on your userspace, or in private. I've thought of doing similar in the past, but it's a pain. If I start stalking medeis' bad closures, then I'm just doing the same obsessive troll hunting that I wish would stop. I've come to the conclusion that medeis' disruptive behavior will never be stopped by asking nicely, and that formal sanctions will require lots of planning and documentation. But I'm more interested in using the ref desks to learn things and provide references... Anyway, if anyone wants to start such a list on-wiki, drop a note at the ref desk talk page, and I'm sure we can fill it with evidence of bad calls and disruptive behavior over the next year. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:05, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User evading block and re-creation of page deleted many, many times.
| CLOSED | |
| Deleted page re-deleted, and user(s) blocked as socks of Padmalakshmisx by NativeForeigner. --IJBall (talk) 17:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Festivalindia (talk · contribs) has just (re)created this article within 15 minutes of registering their account. It's previously been titled this and has been deleted four times since December due to WP:SOCK issues (see the deletion log). Please can someone do the necessary with this page/user too? Thanks. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 15:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Nuked page, blocked Festivalindia (talk · contribs), Cannesindia (talk · contribs), Rawlyani (talk · contribs). Their edits should be reviewed. NativeForeigner Talk 15:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
PortugueseManofPeace and Akafeatfausty (unresolved)
PortugueseManofPeace (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Akafeatfausty (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are obvious, newly created sock puppets, specifically vandalizing articles I edited.
The nature of their edits is exemplified by nonsensical and bogus edit summaries, such as "Visible anchor, mentioned an impt point with source but tangible" [50] and "Grammar check" when just removing spaces and a line break [51] and "incorporating some changes from Kristina451" [52] when he has incorporated nothing but has simply reverted my edit, and "Fix verb tense" when re-adding the same falsehood to the article that I pointed out on his talk page before. [53]
PortugueseManofPeace and Akafeatfausty are making identical edits, like replacing the term "high-frequency trading/HFT" with "predatory". [54] [55] Akafeatfausty also uses bogus edit summaries, like claiming to make an edit according to the "Last version as per talk page" when there is nothing even remotely about that on the article's talk page. [56] All within hours. Kristina451 (talk) 01:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- The socks have now simultaneously restored their vandalism. PortugueseManofPeace from 03:10 to 03:12 UTC, and Akafeatfausty from 03:15 to 03:18 UTC. Please block indef and roll back their edits. Thanks. Kristina451 (talk) 03:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I met Akafeatfausty (MelissaHebert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)) on #wikipedia-en-help connect discussing an incident on WP:COIN#Kristina451_and_High-frequency_trading regarding Kristina451. Kristina451 has been mass-undoing revisions from:
- PortugueseManofPeace (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- David Adam Kess (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 190.10.199.189 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 166.137.246.84 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- 128.103.224.4 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- under all kinds of nonsensical reasons claiming a lack of references, while he/she seems very happy to approve any kind of references or lack thereof that smear the reputation of a specific group of traders. We noticed that Kristina451 claims to be a "professional trader", which probably indicates a personal reason for his/her strong POV and marginalizing behavior against this particular group. We agreed to insert a few true statements into these articles to see if Kristina451 repeats this pattern of flagrantly undoing revisions so long as he/she could keep often false content that was accusative towards high-frequency traders.
- For example, in Quote stuffing, Akafeatfausty made the correct call that Citadel LLC is a hedge fund and according to Bloomberg [57], Citadel Securities LLC is a brokerage firm and investment bank, not a high-frequency trading firm as Kristina451 puts it. Kristina451 reverted Akafeatfausty's changes without even bothering to truth-check those statements just because in that sentence, Citadel Securities was being accused of market manipulation and this was another chance for Kristina451 to smear the reputation of high-frequency trading.
- I would say this experiment was a success. I think Kristina451 should be spending his/her doggedness, reference-checking skills and wit towards the betterment of other Wikipedia articles, and not waste so much of his/her time on such a juvenile way of smearing the reputation of his/her personal competitors.
- PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 03:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I would like to clarify that David Adam Kess and 190.10.199.189 are unrelated to this incident. MelissaHebert is obviously another sock related to the socks PortugueseManofPeace and Akafeatfausty. Kristina451 (talk) 04:18, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- As I mentioned, Akafeatfausty is MelissaHebert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) from what I can tell, maybe she didn't want to be known by her real name? You can check our IP addresses if you like. We divided the labor so I was monitoring Flash Boys, Virtu Financial, High-frequency trading and Front running because those were longer and I was more familiar with editing while Akafeatfeausty volunteered to do the rest. There's no overlap between our edits because they're on completely separate articles, why I would need to sockpuppet on completely separate articles? I could have handled all the articles by myself if I wanted to. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 04:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Apparently you know how to use other IPs and therefore mention it can be checked. But it does not have to, the behavioral evidence is crystal clear. Kristina451 (talk) 04:59, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You know what behavioral evidence is crystal clear? You obsessively policing every single sentence in every single article that mentions high-frequency traders. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 07:27, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- focusing on a particular topic or aspect is not an issue in and of itself. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You know what behavioral evidence is crystal clear? You obsessively policing every single sentence in every single article that mentions high-frequency traders. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 07:27, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
The socks were signed up in short succession: MelissaHebert on 21 February 2015 at 09:18 UTC, PortugueseManofPeace on 21 February 2015 at 23:01 UTC, Akafeatfausty on 22 February 2015 at 22:56 UTC. The first edit was made by MelissaHebert. A rather interesting first edit for a 'new user', a COI filing against me without notifying me about it. [58] The ploy obviously was to try to provoke me with the other two socks to somehow 'show' that the COI filing was justified.
I think it is time to end this. While this ANI was open, almost certainly the same person responsible for the three socks above created another sock [59] that tried to impersonate David Adam Kess on my talk page and signed with David Adam Kess, who I still think is not involved in this incident. Thanks. Kristina451 (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've caught you red-handed trying to undo all these factually correct edits, such as the one on Citadel Securities LLC, out of your personal spite and conflict of interest. Now you're trying to divert attention from your own wrongdoing with this conspiracy theory about sockpuppeting. I suspect you're the one who created this Shazam puta character yourself to try and falsify a case against me. I'm not surprised:
- Upon closer look into your history,
- 1. Your first edits were of promotional content to an IEX article, which appears to support your agenda against high-frequency traders. This was flagged by MrBill3 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log).
- 2. Your next edits were of promotional content, which was flagged by Sophie.grothendieck (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for WP:COI and harassment, which led to WP:functionaries intervening to remove your violating harassment.
- 3. Then you went on a long hiatus and came back to revenge report Sophie.grothendieck on WP:COIN although it was months since this user last made an edit.
- 4. Then you went on a mass-undoing spree against David Adam Kess, whose edits seem valid, just because he didn't share your anti-high frequency trading position.
- You have a history of dragging everyone into your childish disputes, each time ending with intervention from administrators and functionaries.
- PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 00:00, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- You now made it apparent that (you) the puppet master is Sophie.grothendieck. This also explains your untrue claims that you have a history of making, for example here [60] on my talk page. You also created dozens of other socks (I maintain a list of them), most of which are stale. I think the 'whole thing' needs to go to SPI. There is however something that can be handled right away. Kristina451 (talk) 11:57, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- You're really grasping for straws here aren't you? Think about how ridiculous some of your claims sound.
- - Why would I create another account immediately after you have accused me of sockpuppeting just to post on your talk page?
- - Why would I need to create an account just to notify you of edits on an article? You're already aware of these edits, seeing as you have filed a report on this noticeboard and that I've been replying to you.
- - Why would I need to impersonate David Adam Kess or Sophie.grotendieck? I've already talked to them on their talk pages and they can speak for themselves.
- - Why would I create another account to edit completely separate and unrelated articles? Yoshi and Brian Lee?
- - Why would I create another account to complain about you if I had one that existed for a longer time that apparently had a successful complaint about you?
- - Why would I create another account 6 months later to out you after you started vandalizing these sites? Sophie.grotendieck seems to have been active during this period and could have done that himself/herself.
- Please show us your conspiracy theory list so we can do an IP check and get these ridiculous accusations overthrown. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 00:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Suggestion to take some (simple) action
Please block these obvious, recently active sock puppets per WP:DUCK and the comments above:
- MelissaHebert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- PortugueseManofPeace (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Akafeatfausty (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Shazam puta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This would finally allow me to move on with article work. For obvious reasons, I am reluctant to get into content disputes with socks here at ANI. If any established editor wants to know why the sock edits should be undone, please feel free to ask any question. Thank you, and I hope this will get resolved soon. Kristina451 (talk) 11:57, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Administrators, I want to bring to your attention that Kristina451 deliberately edited this section to remove evidence that I presented which demonstrated that Kristina451 is Shazam puta. Look in the revision history for this section for proof. I think I just caught Kristina451 red-handed again and he/she obviously wanted to hide this. For your convenience, I have readded the content that he/she removed below:
- PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 23:24, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Update: You'd think that you would at least try to make this Shazam puta character more convincing. Here's what you posted on my talk page two days ago.
Hello, I'm Kristina451. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to High-frequency trading because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you.Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive875
- Here's what you posted on your own talk page using your Shazam puta account.
Hello Kristina451. I am Shazam puta and really just wanted to take the time to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to High-frequency trading because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you.
- Contrast this to what I wrote on David Adam Kess's account recently:
Hi, I am PortugueseManofPeace. Thanks for your editorial work on Wikipedia! There is an incident on the administrators' noticeboard discussing how Kristina451 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been vandalizing your contributions on the High-frequency trading article that I would like to notify you on.
- It doesn't require much semantic analysis to realize that Shazam puta has your writing style, not mine. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 23:59, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You have added this in between my comment and have changed text I wrote. Stop doing that. Add it at the bottom and it is fine. Just so you know, you are comparing the text of a canned template that I posted to your talk page. Kristina451 (talk) 23:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Kristina451 background
I did a further search into Kristina451's background. It appears that during the last WP:COIN investigation into Kristina451, she claimed to the administrators that she was genuinely interested in editing the IEX article and that her account name was not created to harass Sophie.grothendieck. This turned out to be a huge lie:
- - It appears that the functionaries forced him/her to change his/her account name just in case he/she was genuinely interested in editing rather than harassing Sophie.grothendieck. However, after the name change, he/she clearly lost interest in editing the article because he/she lost purpose of harassing Sophie.grothendieck and immediately stopped editing.
- - Kristina451 waited a long time for the functionaries' attention on him/her to die down before coming back. When she returned, her first edit Sophie.grothendieck was to file this probably false report on the administrator's noticeboard to harass Sophie.grothendieck again.
This seems to be a violation of the good faith that the functionaries have shown Kristina451 and displays that his/her intention was to harass people rather than to edit articles. I believe that Kristina451 is just repeating his/her pattern here and trying to harass David Adam Kess and myself instead and he/she is repeating her lie that she wants to go back to editing articles. Please don't fall for this. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 23:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- You are making it more and more clear that you are Sophie.grothendieck. Kristina451 (talk) 01:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- See above.
- You're really grasping for straws here aren't you? Think about how ridiculous some of your claims sound.
- - Why would I create another account immediately after you have accused me of sockpuppeting just to post on your talk page?
- - Why would I need to create an account just to notify you of edits on an article? You're already aware of these edits, seeing as you have filed a report on this noticeboard and that I've been replying to you.
- - Why would I need to impersonate David Adam Kess or Sophie.grotendieck? I've already talked to them on their talk pages and they can speak for themselves.
- - Why would I create another account to edit completely separate and unrelated articles? Yoshi and Brian Lee?
- - Why would I create another account to complain about you if I had one that existed for a longer time that apparently had a successful complaint about you?
- - Why would I create another account 6 months later to out you after you started vandalizing these sites? Sophie.grotendieck seems to have been active during this period and could have done that himself/herself.
- Please show us your conspiracy theory list so we can do an IP check and get these ridiculous accusations overthrown. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 00:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- You edited Brian Lee with your 'Sophie.grothendieck' account [61]. The obvious reason for your socking is to avoid scrutiny, and to try to disguise that you are involved in the high-frequency trading (HFT) hedge fund called Domeyard [62]. This easily explains all your HFT related POV pushing. Kristina451 (talk) 13:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your conspiracy theory gets fresher by the day! You invented a Shazam puta and now you invented a Dome Yard on your talk page, you aren't very creative with names aren't you? Who are you going to associate me with next? There is no HFT point of view in Akafeatfuasty's or mine if you actually bothered reading my edits and truth-check.
- [Kristina451's version] Nanex critcizes vocal users of high-frequency trading
- [Akafeatfuasty's version 648283904] Nanex critcizes vocal users of high-frequency trading and dark liquidity [1]
- [Kristina451's version] HFT firms make up the low margins with incredible high volumes of tradings,
- [My version 648385500] HFT firms make up the low margins with incredibly high volumes of trades,
- This actually shows that you're mass undoing the revisions without any discretion, which shows that you are the one with an WP:COI here, which is what Akafeatfuasty alleged in the first place on #wikipedia-en-help connect and that's why I was helping her! PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 14:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
References
- PortugueseManofPeace is back to the same unconstructive editing pointed out above. Uses a summary of "Fixed claim, clarified defect reports, fixed disambiguation" when tinkering with spaces and line breaks. [63] Kristina451 (talk) 19:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Two wrongs don't make one right. David, Melissa and I agreed to stop WP:MEAT. I want to go back to regular editing and will avoid arguing with Kristina even though that's what she wants. Admins, please close this report if this is a satisfactory result. Shazam puta and 198.0.163.1 seem to be her accounts though, if you continue hearing from her account, please investigate her not us. At least I can be honest and own up to my mistakes. She can use them to stalk me like she stalked David if she wants. I hope she eventually gets bored of vandalizing those articles and stalking. Thank you. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 17:31, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Kristina451
- (Opened with section title "Kristina451: Lying to functionaries, now lying to administrators"; title changed to "Kristina451 background" by doncram; title changed to "Kristina wikipedia stalker" by PortugueseManofPeace
- Original section title duplicated another section on this page, also changed by doncram.
- Per wp:TALKNEW, headings should not be used to attack other users, so header of form (Username)-(Negative behavior/Negative adjective) should not be allowed, imho. --doncram 07:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC) )
Kristina451 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) filed a false claim of sockpuppeting against me on this noticeboard to harass me. She claims that she is genuinely interested in editing articles after I had exposed her WP:COI.
I did a further search into Kristina451's background. It appears that during the last WP:COIN investigation into Kristina451, she claimed to the administrators that she was genuinely interested in editing the IEX article and that her account name was not created to harass Sophie.grothendieck. This turned out to be a huge lie:
- - It appears that the functionaries must have found evidence of harassment and forced Kristina451 to change his/her account name. They did not ban him/her just in case he/she was genuinely interested in editing rather than harassing Sophie.grothendieck. However, after the name change, he/she clearly lost interest in editing the article because he/she lost purpose of harassing Sophie.grothendieck and immediately stopped editing. This seems to be a violation of the good faith that the functionaries have shown Kristina451 and displays that his/her intention was to harass people rather than to edit articles.
- - Kristina451 waited a long time for the functionaries' attention on him/her to die down before coming back. When she returned, her first edit Sophie.grothendieck was to file this probably false report on the administrator's noticeboard to harass Sophie.grothendieck again and she went straight back to editing articles of which she had previously been accused of a WP:COI.
I believe that Kristina451 is just repeating his/her pattern here and trying to harass David Adam Kess and myself instead and he/she is repeating her lie that she wants to go back to editing articles. I recommend a block on Kristina451's account.
PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 00:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- This is what happens if obvious socks go unchecked for days. Kristina451 (talk) 01:28, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- In the future please notify the person who you are taking to ANI, thanks! - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:32, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- *Sorry about that, Knowledgekid87! I've added his/her username! PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 01:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment It doesn't get any more duckish than this: [64] - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Knowledgekid87, now as you are investigating this, I also wanted to mention that Calboarder24, Shazam puta and Kristina451 are the same person. Kristina451 appears to have created the Shazam puta account to fabricate the claim against me and Kristina451's recent edits on an obscure wall and the converging timelines of their account histories seem to associate her with Calboarder24. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 01:59, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- LOL - David Adam Kess gets blocked; days later an IP starts editing the same articles and gets blocked for sock-block evasion; days later PortugueseManofPeace starts editing the same articles. Collectively, we Wikipedia editors might not be so bright. But we're not that stupid. Quack! St★lwart111 08:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- MelissaHebert is another interesting one. And by interesting, of course, I mean "suspicious". St★lwart111 08:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The puppet master tried to blame the socks on David Adam Kess who I still think is not involved. Looking at the sock's comments and behaviour, the sock master obviously is 'Sophie.grothendieck', the first named account of a person involved in the high-frequency trading (HFT) hedge fund called Domeyard [65]. This easily explains all the HFT related POV pushing. In any case, it is time to block the obvious socks. Kristina451 (talk) 12:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your conspiracy theory gets fresher by the day! You invented a Shazam puta and now you invented a Dome Yard on your talk page, you aren't very creative with names aren't you? Who are you going to associate me with next? There is no HFT point of view in Akafeatfuasty's or mine if you actually bothered reading my edits and truth-check.
- [Kristina451's version] HFT firms make up the low margins with incredible high volumes of tradings,
- [My version] HFT firms make up the low margins with incredibly high volumes of trades,
- This actually shows that you're mass undoing the revisions without any discretion, which shows that you are the one with an WP:COI here, which is what Akafeatfuasty alleged in the first place on #wikipedia-en-help connect and that's why I was helping her! You're just throwing up dust in the air with this conspiracy theory to get all of us banned when you are the real issue. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 14:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
References
- You just stalk everyone else who edits your beloved articles, which is what others have discovered before me. What is your problem? PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 15:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- As usual, false claims made up on the spot. What you purport to be in the HFT article (your first link) was never there. And nobody undid that minor prose improvement in the second link. I have no idea why this endless sock trolling and disruption is supposed to continue. Kristina451 (talk) 17:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Good grief, the quacking is so loud my ears hurt. Admins can we please get a hyper-obvious duck-block for PortugueseManofPeace and MelissaHebert please. Really, any admin with 10 seconds free time would do. St★lwart111 23:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I give up, this is a sad ending. You can let Kristina451 vandalize your articles. But if you can afford me some of your patience, I can walk you through this on the phone. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 04:13, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- You can put me on a conference call with the three different owners of those accounts? Or are they all (in fact) one-in-the-same? You do realise that no matter what content dispute you have with Kristina, socking to make a point or continue your campaign against her will be seen as far worse? St★lwart111 07:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- You're right, I apologize if our actions were disruptive. MelissaHebert and I thought it was fair game to edit separate articles as 2 separate persons.
- We know David, he's a genuine guy and a good editor. Kristina451 stalked him to no ends just because he picked the wrong articles to edit. She's out of her mind and was willing to spend more time making life difficult for David than David had time to properly reference and defend his edits.
- I honestly have no idea who are 198.0.163.1 and Shazam puta though, goes to show the extreme ends Kristina451 would go to have her way in manipulating control of those articles.
- We just wanted to give David and those articles a chance at a fair editorial process.
- I accept that it is a fair decision if the admins block us, but please tell us what is an acceptable protocol to stopping Kristina451 from undoing edits without discretion. We followed Nagle's advice on WP:COIN and tried putting back the factual content but Kristina451 immediately reported them on this noticeboard to disrupt our edits, even though there is nothing wrong with the content of our edits. She is dead set on preventing anyone else from editing those articles.
- Again, I'm sorry, but please realize that we are the victims here. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 08:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- No need to bold everything you write. What you have to say isn't any more important than anything else prior. For the last time, you're going about this entirely the wrong way. Dishonestly using multiple accounts to make a point or "win" an argument (whether under the control of on person - WP:SOCK - or multiple people - WP:MEAT) is one of the most problematic things you can do here. It's the sort of thing that results in long blocks and site-bans. It's really pretty moronic (and that's putting it nicely). Turning around and claiming to be the victim a few paragraphs after admitting to breaking on of WP's most seriously-taken rules won't get you anywhere. You just don't seem to get it. St★lwart111 04:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with you, two wrongs don't make one right. We agreed to stop. I want to go back to regular editing and will avoid arguing with Kristina. Please close my report and hers if this is a satisfactory result for admins and you. Shazam puta and 198.0.163.1 seem to be her accounts though, if you continue hearing from her account, please investigate her not us. At least I can be honest and own up to my mistakes. She can use them to stalk me like she stalked David if she wants. I hope she eventually gets bored of vandalizing those articles and stalking. PortugueseManofPeace (talk) 17:31, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Not sure why this was copied; it doesn't tell us anything. |
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Copied over from other section on this noticeboard
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Wikihounded by "newcomers"
Hello,
Since M.Bitton and Historian Student's multiple socks have been blocked (1 week for the first, indef. for the second's socks), some "new contributors" appeared, whose only contributions were to revert my edits using the same edit summaries and putting back the controversial versions previously made by M.Bitton and Historian Student and repeating the disruptive behavior that characterized both Historian Student (talk · contribs) and M.Bitton (talk · contribs).
These "new comers" are Ms10vc (talk · contribs) and Sidihmed (talk · contribs), plus an edit from IP 148.163.92.84 (talk · contribs · WHOIS).
Wile Ms10vc is obviously not a sock but just a disruptive editor (he participated for months on the French Wikipedia where he had been previously blocked for personal attacks against me (edited: my bad, he was blocked 2 times for personal attacks but not against me... really sorry!) and disruptive editing (edited, Omar-toons (talk) 23:51, 24 February 2015 (UTC)), and seems that he wants to start the same thing here), Sidihmed is clearly a sock (but who is the sockmaster? then, how could an SPI be opened without knowing if it is Historian Student or M.Bitton?).
Btw, I ask admins to block these accounts or, at least, to semi-protect the articles that were targeted by Historian Student and his multiple socks as well as by these two "new comers":
- List of wars involving Algeria (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Moroccan Wall (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Ahmad al-Tijani (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Tijaniyyah (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Sand War (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Morisco (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Ottoman Algeria (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Regards
--Omar-toons (talk) 16:05, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sure. But Omar-Toons, one of the best ways to combat disruption is article improvement. Just saying. I'm not familiar with User:FAIZGUEVARRA, who's been active on one of those back in 2011; something to look into perhaps. Please ask DoRD to run CU on Sidihmed and the other, whom I've already blocked. Drmies (talk) 17:06, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Wait. Old timer alert. Who was that joker, a few years ago, doing all this stuff on Y-chromosomes and haplotypes or whatever? This edit has a bunch of that sciency talk. And Omar-Toons, this edit, which I think you endorse on the talk page, seems to remove really reliably sourced content, rather than stuff that's "devoid of meaningful information and pointless". Dougweller, do you have an opinion to offer? Drmies (talk) 17:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry Drmies, I can't recall. Dougweller (talk) 20:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- See also: WP:ANEW#User:Omar-toons reported by User:Chemsdine-badouri (Result: Nominating editor blocked) (and I have also reopened Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Historian Student). BencherliteTalk 19:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- My bad, I'm confused: Ms10vc was effectively previously blocked on FR.Wiki for personal attacks, but actually not against me. Also, Drmies blocked him for sockpuppettry, but I don't think that he's a sock (as said before), but just a disruptive editor.
- For Morisco (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views), I found that the section was irrelevant, but we are still discussing it (the IP user removed it before we actually got a consensus, but that's another issue). Actually, I think that some information that it contained could be copied to a section to create that could deal with socio/cultural matters. As I just wrote: that subject should be discussed more and more...
- For the FAIZGUEVARRA thing, this vandal didn't show up for more than 3 years, I don't think that he's linked to that... but that's juste my (h) opinion...
- Regards,
- --Omar-toons (talk) 23:51, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Drmies: actually there is some WP:SYNTH issue related to genetics, I still don't understand how the given refs actually support the statement they are linked to, I tried to discuss it but actually got no answer (or rather a rethoric), and when I added a {{failed verification}} tag it was immediately removed.
- Btw, I tried a last time, but I'm giving up after this try if there's nothing new with Asilah1981 (who persists on keeping these refs).
- Regards,
- --Omar-toons (talk) 00:29, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Amusing account of events Omar-toons. As you know I began editing this article and approaching you in a highly positive and constructive manner. Three editors who you have been in conflict with over this issue have requested you to take this edit conflict to RFC and we hope you do initiate such a step. It feels like very forceful agenda pushing, and it is a very strange and convoluted agenda at that! I can't see where your desire could come from! In any case, I am still assuming good faith and struggling to answer your increasingly incomprehensible arguments. Asilah1981 (talk) 18:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Redirect and disambiguation muddle
A network of redirects and disambiguation pages has become very muddled and I fear it will take someone with admin tools and a clear understanding of the system to fix it. It's arisen because of Bolterc's desire that AAP should redirect to Aam Aadmi Party (that's a fairly new Indian political party which has recently won a landslide victory in the Delhi state elections). As a result of several changes in the last couple of hours, we now have:
- AAP disambiguation a disambiguation page which lists about 30 articles
- AAP (동음이의), a redirect to AAP disambiguation
- AAP a redirect to Aam Admi Party
- Aaaap a redirect to Aam Admi Party
- AAAAP (disambiguation) a redirect to AAP
- Aap (disambiguation) a redirect to AAP.
Can anyone set all this to function normally? NebY (talk) 21:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- AAAAP (disambiguation) tagged as R3, that should shift one of them. I'll take a look at the others. Amortias (T)(C) 21:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Aaaap also tagged as R3 4 to go. Amortias (T)(C) 21:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've removed a few of the tagged pages, please let me know if any other administrative action needs to be taken with regards to the articles. Nakon 21:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Bolterc has been a disruptive nuisance from the outset, has been blocked previously and has had both the caste and general India/Pakistan discretionary sanctions warnings. They don't seem to be learning a thing. - Sitush (talk) 21:51, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I spotted this through CSD. I've moved the dab page back to AAP, and have protected it for the next week. I'll do some more tidying up of the various redirects. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:54, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, my apologies. I can't see the sanctions notices, although I could have sworn I did only 15 minutes ago. They've been a nuisance nontheless. - Sitush (talk) 21:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think Bolterc has made one constructive edit. But they're determined that Aam Admi Party should begin by saying that "AAP redirects here" (because their opponents' article says "BJP redirects here") and not say "for the Pakistani political party, see Aam Aadmi Party (Pakistan)" (because that "maligns" the Aam Aadmi Party), so they keep breaking things. NebY (talk) 22:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, my apologies. I can't see the sanctions notices, although I could have sworn I did only 15 minutes ago. They've been a nuisance nontheless. - Sitush (talk) 21:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
- I spotted this through CSD. I've moved the dab page back to AAP, and have protected it for the next week. I'll do some more tidying up of the various redirects. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:54, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I just checked the Election Commission of Pakistan website. The party in discussion here is a namesake party which was not even given a symbol to contest elections. http://ecp.gov.pk/Misc/Parties-with-Symbols.pdf Bolterc (talk) 06:17, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you don't think the Pakistani party is notable then the correct course of action is to take that article to WP:AFD. As long as it exists, the disambiguations that existed before you got involved would appear to be correct. It is no good complaining that "Modi Bhakts" ("Modi admirers", a reference to the main BJP opposition party at the moment) are manipulating the articles. - Sitush (talk) 10:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You have now AfD'd the thing but have done so incorrectly. I've tried to fix the mistakes but I too seem to be hitting problems (see this attempt in the log entry.) I've become far too reliant on WP:Twinkle but hopefully someone can sort it out. - Sitush (talk) 14:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think I have fixed the AfD nom now. I note that after yet more disruptive editing from Bolterc, Aam Aadmi Party has now been full-protected by RegentsPark. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes. I've protected it for the very short term and would prefer not to see a longer term protection. Bolterc, I suggest changing your approach, your current one is not working and will end up with a block. And that is never helpful. --regentspark (comment) 17:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I think I have fixed the AfD nom now. I note that after yet more disruptive editing from Bolterc, Aam Aadmi Party has now been full-protected by RegentsPark. - Sitush (talk) 17:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- You have now AfD'd the thing but have done so incorrectly. I've tried to fix the mistakes but I too seem to be hitting problems (see this attempt in the log entry.) I've become far too reliant on WP:Twinkle but hopefully someone can sort it out. - Sitush (talk) 14:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
You are nonsense. You are the one contributing to caste articles and the person who added the hatnote is a veg supporter obviously caste worshiping people. You guys are bjp supporters whether you admit it or not. Bolterc (talk) 12:26, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I am not a BJP supporter. I am not even Indian and have never voted in the country where I do reside. - Sitush (talk) 12:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Ya seems Legit. This is like Dummy Wells claiming i have no idea or nothing to do with illegal use of Copyrighted images on Quora. Bolterc (talk) 16:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean by that comment. Can you please explain why, after Mike Peel kiboshed your efforts to create AAP (동음이의), you have today created Aap (disambiguation)? - Sitush (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Nice try, You want to get me blocked. Try things. Bolterc (talk) 18:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Aap (disambiguation) was deleted on 20 February 2015 by Bkonrad. You recreated it and it was deleted again on 22 February by Nakon. You have now recreated it yet again. Why is that page so important to you that you would jeopardise your ability to press for the deletion of Aam Aadmi Party (Pakistan)? NebY (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
PM of India is a Criminal accusing AAP as naxalites, but people voted against the corrupt criminal. In a similar way some of the editors are trying to put AAP as a party of Pakistan Origin. On Wikipedia the hatnote has made the visitors of Aam Aadmi Party page misdirected to the pak fake party page. Check my comment on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Aam_Aadmi_Party_(Pakistan) Bolterc (talk) 11:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- Looks like a serious case of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and lack of competence going on here. Blackmane (talk) 00:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes. There has been a bit of name-calling but perhaps this is the clearest demonstration that we have a POV pusher here. - Sitush (talk) 07:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't care about your rules and corruption within administration. My question is why did you allow in first place the hatnote on aam aadmi party page to be added? Will you allow the same if a pak guy creates a party with name similar as some american party. Why not add those hatnotes as well. Remove hatnote or prove the pakistan party's originality. How many votes did they get in the pak elections? Prove or remove hatnote. Bolterc (talk) 07:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- As I said at the AfD, where you also raised a false argument based on a 2013 source, these parties were not formed until 2014. To the best of my knowledge, the last general election in Pakistan was in 2013 and thus they have quite likely not yet contested even one constituency unless they have been involved in a by-election or some regional assembly election. As I also said at the AfD, there are plenty of parties whose name is similar but who operate in different countries; in such circumstances, dabhats are valid. It seems that you are simply not listening or not understanding, although you are very free with your accusations regarding the conduct of others. - Sitush (talk) 17:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't care what is valid here. Wikipedia is misdirecting the new visitors who wants to learn about AAP to some wasteland which i strongly believe the hatnote maligns the name of the new hope party of India on the Internet search market. There is proof of those stats. We will see. Bolterc (talk) 18:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- At this rate, I see a block coming. It's obvious Bolterc is an advocate for the Indian AAP and is prepared to edit war over a hat note that may tie the Indian party to the Pakistani version, however remote a possibility that may be. Furthermore, it is obvious there is some misdirected nationalist fervour going on here. Bolterc, if you don't want to see an indefinite block coming down on your disruptive editing, you're going to have to put aside your nationalist thinking and listen to people. The majority of non-Indian editors here will have few concerns about the politics of your homeland. What they do see is your constant disruption to the project. Blackmane (talk) 00:39, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- And here we go again .I've rolled it back. - Sitush (talk) 18:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
They have also recreated Aam Aadmi Party (disambiguation) yet again. - Sitush (talk) 18:36, 27 February 2015 (UTC)Strike: it was the acronym disambigs that they were recreating previously - nothing wrong with this one. - Sitush (talk) 18:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)- Actually, with a primary topic, this is a WP:TWODABS situation: If there are only two topics to which a given title might refer, and one is the primary topic, then a disambiguation page is not needed—it is sufficient to use a hatnote on the primary topic article, pointing to the other article. If I hadn't seen this discussion, I would have put a CSD#G6 template on the page. -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 18:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User 95.147.94.14 vandalism & refactoring talk page
Blocked 1 week. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User talk:95.147.94.14 - after some vandalism (see links in diff) the ip editor is refactoring talk page comments e.g. in this diff Sjgknight (talk) 20:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Blocked a week. Removing is fine, making people say things they didn't say, not so much. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Best of British 2015
| CLOSED | |
| User's Talk page access revoked by Miniapolis. --IJBall (talk) 23:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Best of British 2015 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (now blocked) is evidently an abusive sock of the indef-blocked and globally-locked user Denver_Stevenson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). After getting blocked for creating or recreating spampages, this user is spamming and using abusive edit summaries on the user's talk page. Please revoke this user's talk page access. --SoCalSuperEagle (talk) 21:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User:189.82.3.18 vandalism
| CLOSED | |
| IP account blocked for vandalism for 1 week Bongwarrior. --IJBall (talk) 01:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
189.82.3.18(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User:189.82.3.18 is on a vandalism binge today. Please see the following:
- [67] Ann Dunham
- [68] User talk:Peaceray
- [69] Ann Dunham
- [70] Iranian Armenians
- [71] Assyrians in Iran
Peaceray (talk) 21:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- please pardonnez-moi, i'm innocent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.82.3.18 (talk) 21:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Additional
Peaceray (talk) 22:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've blocked the IP for one week; see also 189.82.19.170 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) from yesterday. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
About Marathi Script
I am here to inform that Mr.NeilN has repeatedly erased the indic script name of 'Maharashtra' and he has took the false support of self-interpretation of WP:INDICSCRIPT, Today is Marathi Day in Maharashtra 27th Feb in India and NeilN is erasing marathi name from the initial sentence, What problem is with indic script for Maharashtra? If The WP:INDICSCRIPT is enforced for Maharashtra, then it will and shall be enforced for every Indian state Sarita Narvekar (talk) 13:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your edits caught my attention as you are displaying the same behavior as Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sumedh Tayade/Archive. --NeilNtalk to me 13:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Block evasion? Or meatpuppetry? It is odd to see two people going at this same language script, and citing the same false argument that we are targeting the Marathi language. - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Seems like taking revenge on other articles too like Karnataka. Shrikanthv (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, they're probably trying to prove a point but at least that's productive. --NeilNtalk to me 13:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- They're also hypocritical. --NeilN talk to me 05:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Seems like taking revenge on other articles too like Karnataka. Shrikanthv (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Block evasion? Or meatpuppetry? It is odd to see two people going at this same language script, and citing the same false argument that we are targeting the Marathi language. - Sitush (talk) 13:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
GarryWong (talk · contribs)
| USER BLOCKED | |
| User(s) indef blocked by Euryalus. --IJBall (talk) 06:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user's edits is only canvassing other users. This user also canvass users in other wikis. Should this user's edits be reverted?--GZWDer (talk) 05:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Blocked and the edits rolled back, though of course the ping system interferes. Also socking via SpeciallyForYou (talk · contribs) and Spirit of the Lion (talk · contribs). Unclear whether the canvassing is for or against the particular steward candidate, but either way they are clearly WP:NOTHERE. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
James British
| Blocked for 24 hours by FreeRangeFrog (SN: it makes no sense for a non-IP to sign his/her post as "anonymous"). (non-admin closure) Erpert blah, blah, blah... 08:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:James British left this edit on my talk page after I reverted his edit removing internal links and changing numbers here. He has done this kind of unexplained disruptive editing before and has been warned before. The posting on my talk page was totally out of line and I am seeking the help of an admin to deal with him for violation of the Wikipedia:No personal attacks policy. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 06:41, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Whatever else is happening, that kind of thing is unacceptable. Blocked for 24 hours. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 06:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
User:Qordnlrns vandalizing the WP:ARBEE topics
Qordnlrns (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) after his/her last warning about his/her removal of relevant material from articles,[74] did exactly the opposite, and only intensified the deleting of See also sections and/or key i-links in those sections, as well as blocks of images [75] from every WP:ARBEE sensitive article he/she can find, without a word of summary. All this would have to be reverted by an admin in a coordinated move.
To provide links and diffs here would be pointless, because the edits were semi-automated. In a span of just one hour on 28 February 2015 Qordnlrns (talk·contribs) vandalized 22 articles without a summary. In the next hour, 8 and the following hour 21 articles by removing key i-links in the See also sections (prominent example). One vandalism is worth noting here: at 22:48, 26 February 2015 removal of (-2,480) from Waffen-SS foreign volunteers and conscripts without a summary.[76]
- My goodness, what committed 'contributor'! Aside from a few bizarre edit summaries (a couple of which are misleading in terms of the changes actually made), the only ES the user has ever left has been a couple of instances of "ottoman is not colonial empire"(?!!).
- After a mass revert, I think earlier edits will need to be picked through as other contributors often don't bother checking the history of an article and salient, sourced information may be lost in earlier versions. Thanks for the heads up! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Poeticbent talk 14:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Administrator etiquette in issuing blocks
I was recently given a one-month block for trying to avoid an existing block. I appealed that block, which was reviewed by User:JamesBWatson. In responding to me, James made the decision to extend the block by an additional two weeks. Now that my block has been lifted, I would like to have his handling of this situation reviewed as I feel that he did not carry out his responsibilities as an administrator properly to the point where I do not feel confident that he could reasonably carry out those responsibilities in an impartial way in the future. My complaint centres on four key items:
1) First, my blocking history had previously been handled by two or three other administrators. The overwhelming message from them was that the blocks should be considered as a kind of behaviour correction. However, JamesBWatson's message on my talk page made it clear that he felt it likely that I would reoffend, and hence extended my block. I feel that this directly contradicts the message sent by the other administrators, and that by extending the block, he undermined them.
2) Although the blocking policy allows administrators to issue blocks based on an existing block history, it also states that this should be used for reviewing blocks for similar offences. My block history has centred on edit-warring, and I had never been accused of attempting to subvert a ban before. I fail to see how a history of edit-warring suggests a future of trying to subvert blocks, and so I feel that extending a block for subverting a ban based on blocks for edit-warring is both unjustified and a rather cynical approach to take.
3) In reviewing my appeal, JamesBWatson refused to divulge any details of why he chose to extend the block on the grounds that doing so would enable me to subvert blocks in the future. And while I appreciate the rationale, his attitude was quite rude and uncivilised, and so I was left with the distinct impression that I had my block extended because I had been blocked in the past. Similarly, I feel that any concerns that I have in the future - be they legitimate or not - will not be addressed fairly because of my block history, which is at odds with the conduct of other administrators.
4) At the time of having my block extended, no infractions had been committed. The one-month block for trying to subvert an existing block had already come into effect, and no further infractions had been committed. I have found nothing in the blocking policy that gives administrators the power to issue blocks when no infraction has been committed. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 05:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- PM has a habit of getting into trouble and then making matters worse. This post is yet one more example of that behavior. PM's block log speaks for itself. I am unfortunately intimately familiar with PM and his misconduct. As you can see, the first three blocks were mine. In addition after the block by James, I revoked talk page access. I can say categorically that my blocks were not for "behavior correction" as such. As with the majority of blocks, they are a combination of a misconduct sanction and to prevent further disruption with an emphasis on the latter. The blocks, which were all for edit warring, escalated as is normal in such circumstances.
- PM's points about block evasion reflect his misunderstanding of policy and practice. It is common for blocks for whatever conduct to be extended based on block evasion.
- James's comments were not at all rude. They were blunt. He was confronted with what he perceived to be blatant dishonesty on PM's part, and he said so. It should be noted that James wasn't the first admin to block PM for block evasion. That would be HJ Mitchell, who also pulled no punches when discussing the evasion with PM.
- This topic is at best disruptive.--Bbb23 (talk) 05:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- "This topic is at best disruptive."
- I disagree with you there. It certainly isn't intended to be, and trying to represent it as such speaks to the attitude that I felt I got from JamesBWatson—namely, I feel that you think that my block history means that my intention is to disrupt. How would you respond if this issue was raised by an editor without a blocking history? All I want from this is the confidence that administrators will handle any case that I am involved in based on the merits of the case itself. Because right now, I get the distinct impression that some administrators will simply assume that I am responsible for disruption even if I am not because of my history. Now, I am guessing that your response to this will be something along the lines of "you must think Wikipedia administrators are pretty stupid" or some such, but that's why I came here to ANI—because an administrator extended my block on the assumption that I would reoffend when no infraction had been committed to warrant a block. There is no provision within the blocking policy that says that this is an acceptable practice. So if it's reasonable for an administrator to assume that an editor will reoffend based on a block history for an unrelated offence, then how is it unreasonable for an editor to question whether an administrator will exercise good judgement in future based on an experience where they believe that administrator acted poorly? I appreciate that Wikipedia is not a democracy, but surely you recognise that everyday editors need to have confidence that the administrators will be able to judge situations appropriately. That's why I opened this discussion thread—so that I can have confidence in the administrators. What did you think I wanted? To cause disruption? If so, I picked a pretty poor platform for it. To see JamesBWatson stripped of his administration powers? I'm not nearly vain enough to think that I could do it. Or did I create it so that I can have a constructive conversation about the issue and better apply the lessons that you said you wanted to teach me? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:52, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- PM has a habit of getting into trouble and then making matters worse -- it's a six year 20K edit account that was never blocked prior to Oct 2014 -- are there diffs to support that accusation?? NE Ent 15:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
To reply briefly to each of the numbered points Prisonermonkeys posts:
- Prisonermonkeys says that I "directly [contradict] the message sent by the other administrators, and that by extending the block, [I] undermined them." Firstly, I don't see where I contradicted anything that any other administrator had said. Secondly, if I did, why is that an offence? Am I not allowed to disagree with other administrators?
- The second point is absurd. Of course if an editor who has a history of being blocked for edit warring proceeds to evade blocks, he or she can have further blocks imposed for block evasion, in addition to the blocks for edit warring. However, that is not even an accurate description of what happened: Prisonermonkeys tries to give the impression that until I extended the block, his/her blocks had been entirely for edit-warring, not for block-evasion (which is evidently what he/she means by "attempting to subvert a ban"). However, the block which I extended was for block evasion. (The block was imposed by HJ Mitchell at 19:11, 11 January 2015, and the block log entry says "Block evasion: has been evading the block while logged out continuously, almost since the block was made".) Also, the wording used by Bbb23 and PhilKnight in declining unblock requests for HJ Mitchell's block make it clear that they both believed that Prisonermonkeys had been evading the block, and declined the unblock requests for that reason.
- "I was left with the distinct impression that I had my block extended because I had been blocked in the past" ... Well, in informing him/her of my decision, I stated that it was because I believed he/she was being dishonest about a block for block-evasion. If he/she believes I was lying, and that I didn't really think that, but actually extended the block simply because he/she had been blocked before, what can I say? I have re-read every word I wrote on Prisonermonkeys's taslk page, and I can't see anything I said which seems to me to indicate that I really extended the block for any reason other than that which I stated. Prisonermonkeys also says that what I did was "at odds with the conduct of other administrators", but my block extension was appealed, and supported by another administrator.
- "At the time of having my block extended, no infractions had been committed" ... In the context of the following sentences, this evidently means that no further offences had taken place since the block was imposed. However, that is not true: I made it explicit in my comment that the essential reason for extending the block was dishonesty about that block, which of course took place after the block was imposed. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately the WMF's insistence on no registration required, along with a strong privacy policy, means that we will always have a) socks, and b) the possibility of false positives. Per WP:NOJUSTICE it's appropriate admins use best judgment or "preponderance of the evidence." I'm not seeing anything in JamesBWatson et. al. behavior that warrants further action or review. NE Ent 15:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- I took a look at the available evidence, and my conclusion is that it is extremely implausible that someone else would start using a static IP that Prisonermonkeys claims is associated with a public terminal,[77] edit Wikipedia without logging in, and edit almost exclusively in the area of motor racing[78] all during the time Prisonermonkeys was blocked. Extremely implausible. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Let's just say that I can account for my whereabouts on that day, but choose not to for personal reasons. Furthermore, that block is not what I am disputing. I am disputing the two-week extension that I was given when I had not done anything to warrant it. The four-week block was intended to address it, and address it it did. I believe that JamesBWatson should not have issued that extension the way he did. As has been acknowledged, there was the potential for a false positive—after all, the terminal in question is one that I had had nothing to do with for eighteen months. And while I acknowledge that it is a massive coincidence that those edits were made, and while I cannot explain them satisfactorily, I do know that that terminal is a computer in a public library, and I do know that I was nearly 500km away from it on the day in question. I believe that it was a false positive, and that there was no case for extending the block, except for the assumption that because I had been blocked in the past, I must be guilty of something. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Let's just say that we've heard it all before. Now might be a good time to familiarise yourself with the first law of holes. Guy (Help!) 22:16, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Let's just say that I can account for my whereabouts on that day, but choose not to for personal reasons. Furthermore, that block is not what I am disputing. I am disputing the two-week extension that I was given when I had not done anything to warrant it. The four-week block was intended to address it, and address it it did. I believe that JamesBWatson should not have issued that extension the way he did. As has been acknowledged, there was the potential for a false positive—after all, the terminal in question is one that I had had nothing to do with for eighteen months. And while I acknowledge that it is a massive coincidence that those edits were made, and while I cannot explain them satisfactorily, I do know that that terminal is a computer in a public library, and I do know that I was nearly 500km away from it on the day in question. I believe that it was a false positive, and that there was no case for extending the block, except for the assumption that because I had been blocked in the past, I must be guilty of something. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- I only gave up trying to prove that I had nothing to do with the edits because I knew that I couldn't prove it to everyone's satisfaction. But I didn't create this discussion to talk about that. I created this discussion to ask why an administrator is allowed to apply blocks outside the scope of the blocking policy. Like I said, I hadn't committed any blockable offence when I got the extension, and I could find nothing in the blocking policy to support JamesBWatson's actions. Am I simply missing something here? If so, please direct me to the policy that says an administrator is free to assume that an editor will make disruptive edits in the future when they do not have an extensive history of making those edits. To draw an analogy, articles do not get protected pre-emptively, so why do editors get blocked pre-emptively? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I shall make just one more attempt to explain a point which I thought I had explained to you before, and then I will leave this pointless waste of time. Firstly, I did not "assume that an editor will make disruptive edits in the future when they do not have an extensive history of making those edits". The block extension was because of things you had already done. Secondly, by policy blocks are required to be preventive, not punitive, which means that every block is required by policy to be made in the anticipation that there may be more of the same problem that has already happened: to block for any reason other than anticipation of possible future disruption would be contrary to policy. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I only gave up trying to prove that I had nothing to do with the edits because I knew that I couldn't prove it to everyone's satisfaction. But I didn't create this discussion to talk about that. I created this discussion to ask why an administrator is allowed to apply blocks outside the scope of the blocking policy. Like I said, I hadn't committed any blockable offence when I got the extension, and I could find nothing in the blocking policy to support JamesBWatson's actions. Am I simply missing something here? If so, please direct me to the policy that says an administrator is free to assume that an editor will make disruptive edits in the future when they do not have an extensive history of making those edits. To draw an analogy, articles do not get protected pre-emptively, so why do editors get blocked pre-emptively? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- I suggest you drop this, PM. I know you feel aggrieved, but at the end of the day the best thing would be to move on. I'm not sure I would have extended the block a second time unless there was continued evasion, but James was within the bounds of admin discretion. You'd be best off getting back to working on articles and not getting into any more edit wars. HJ Mitchell Penny for your thoughts? 17:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Here's a thought: How about you stop the recurring behavior that seems to get you blocked every other week. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 17:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User talk:Theshitman
| CLOSED | |
| Talk page access revoked by De728631. (non-admin closure) --IJBall (talk) 17:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Theshitman keeps making personal attacks on own talk page, please revoke talk access. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 15:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Legal threat by 103.21.40.166 (talk · contribs) on List of Bangladeshi television and radio channels
| USER BLOCKED | |
| IP account blocked for legal threats for 48 hours by FreeRangeFrog. (non-admin closure) --IJBall (talk) 17:34, 28 February 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This user made a legal threat MadGuy7023 (talk) 16:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- This, for example? Yes, it definitely qualifies. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 16:59, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Clear legal threat, blocked. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 17:03, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
User:Sevvyan and personal attacks
| indef blocked. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User Sevvyan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is an account which done persistent poorly referenced and unexplained posts because of NOR claims, breached several time the three-revert rule, and when discussion began at Talk:Boris Kalamanos (edit article history links watch logs), the article Boris Kalamanos (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) became blocked on 24 February, and since that date can be followed persistent personal attacks on editors at the article talk page, as well after several warnings at his User talk:Sevvyan, he shows no signs of stopping and I think admin intervention is necessary at this point for the discussion to continue in normal environment and reach its eventual conclusion.--Crovata (talk) 00:52, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- "...account which done persistent poorly..." - And when you tell him and his nationalist buddies to use proper English so we can understand what they mean, they declare it a personal attack?! At any rate, here's my response: (1) can he prove I broke any rules? (2) "persistent personal attacks on editors at the article talk page" probably refers to this discussion in the appropriate Talk. But so what?! Finally, perhaps the reporting editor would like to answer my 3 (now 4) times repeated Q that prompted him to file the report: - How come his profile states an officially non-existing "Serbo-Croat" language as his mother tongue? He is thus obviously a self-declared Serbo-Croat nationalist. By definition, Bosnia doesn't even enter the equation in those nationalists' minds, meaning it shouldn't exist as a nation in equal right as Croatia/Serbia. So how can we then assume that contributions from such minds to this article (on Bosnia's deepest history) are being made in good faith? No way this person is in the right state of mind, let alone should be allowed anywhere near a PC! Thanks. Sevvyan (talk) 01:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
As I said... Sevvyan (talk) 01:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I join Crovata's report: Sevvyan is not here to build an encyclopedia. His personal attacks reveal his biased approach ([81], [82], [83]). He assumes bad faith [84]. He is even willing to show his own text as a verbatim citation from a reliable source, as it is demonstrated here: [85], [86], [87], [88]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Borsoka (talk • contribs) 08:11, February 28, 2015 (UTC)
It became apparent during the discussion in the Talk, that Zoupan is a Serb, Borsoka is from either Serb or Croat ethnic minority living in Hungary (per his repeated writing of Klaić's name erroneously as "Nadja" instead of Nada, which only a Serb/Croat would do), and Crovata is a self-declared Serb-Croat nationalist (his user page states the officially non-existent "Serbo-Croat" language as his mother tongue). Since 3-of-3 can't be a miss, therefore there's no need to take seriously anything that such an attacking triplet says on the matter that concerns deepest history of Bosnia - a centuries-long target of the nationalistic ideology the three obviously share (again, 3-of-3, along with awful contribution and terrible behavior in the Talk, seem to prove bad faith by all three). And I see it's only them again here too - a nationalistic orchestra playing the same old, boring tune. Thanks. Sevvyan (talk) 13:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- The above message is a new example of his biased and narrow minded approach ("who does not accept my original research is an enemy"). Just for clarification, I am an ethnic Hungarian from Hungary, but in Sevvyan's world everybody is Serbian who reminds him to basic WP principles. Borsoka (talk) 14:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- You type from 46.107.xx.xx network, and your hometown is "famous for its Serbian Orthodox church. Just as in nearby Szentendre, a Serbian community existed in the town since the time of the Ottoman presence in Eastern Europe." It's rather obvious. Sevvyan (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot help you. In your world, everybody who do not accept your OR is an enemy and your enemies are Serbians, even if they are not. I repeat: I am an ethnic Hungarian from Hungary with no Serbian (or Croatian) ancestry. Borsoka (talk) 14:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Are we sure that he can contribute to the development of this encyclopedia? Please read his new message here. Borsoka (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Not only that, but now you (Serbs/Croats/Bosniaks/Serbo-Croats) can't contribute to the main country article either. Thanks. Sevvyan (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Are we sure that he can contribute to the development of this encyclopedia? Please read his new message here. Borsoka (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot help you. In your world, everybody who do not accept your OR is an enemy and your enemies are Serbians, even if they are not. I repeat: I am an ethnic Hungarian from Hungary with no Serbian (or Croatian) ancestry. Borsoka (talk) 14:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- You type from 46.107.xx.xx network, and your hometown is "famous for its Serbian Orthodox church. Just as in nearby Szentendre, a Serbian community existed in the town since the time of the Ottoman presence in Eastern Europe." It's rather obvious. Sevvyan (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- The above message is a new example of his biased and narrow minded approach ("who does not accept my original research is an enemy"). Just for clarification, I am an ethnic Hungarian from Hungary, but in Sevvyan's world everybody is Serbian who reminds him to basic WP principles. Borsoka (talk) 14:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
WP:POINT, WP:NOTHERE. Sevvyan has been disrupting FAC. He nominated a closed archived page to FAC which was removed,[89]] so he then created a new nomination page [90] for a clearly deficient (and protected) article at FAC (Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina/archive2, which you have to be an admin to see since it was speedy housekeeping deleted on consensus from four former and current FAC and TFA delegates and coordinators), and even after all of that, again re-nommed the old archived page to FAC. [91] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I can't and am not willing to follow and continue the discussion on talk page anymore, with his repeating comments on the article talk page he again made a mess with accusing us for something that simply doesn't make sense, neither with this discussion. Yes, I am from Croatia and personally speak Croatian, but so well understand Bosnian, Serbian, Montenegrin standard forms of Serbo-Croatian because they are so similar that everbody understand's it, and it's no use for me to mention them separatelly in my user page. What's even worse, he is without reasoning, after my review of the sources and information on the medieval personalities I wrote (1) how the thesis of Ban Borić being Boris Kalamanos is plausible, which actually confirms his POV, yet again he continues. I can't work like this anymore. Actually, could part of his comments be removed or be re-arranged in the article talk page because it became a mess and simply can't continue to discuss the subject replying to Borsoka and other editors.--Crovata (talk) 16:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sevvyan is now reverting against consensus - see this and this. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- And now he's removing my comments from the talk page. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Note: Sevvyan is a WP:DUCK sock of User:Bosnipedian, who has been perpetuating hoaxes on wiki related to these issues for years. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bosnipedian. Best to report, WP:BLOCK and WP:DENY. TDL (talk) 1:46 pm, Today (UTC−5)
Comment This is beyond ridiculous. This highly disruptive user (Sevvyan) has actually violated WP:3RR on ANI now. Not only that, it's done by four times removing other people's comment about the user in this discussion, just like the user removes other users' comment on article talk pages. And the same user has made this bizarre WP:OWN violation [92]. This extremly disruptive user needs to be blocked right away. The 3RR in itself is a red flag, and all the behavior show the user is WP:NOTHERE to contribute.Jeppiz (talk) 18:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment (edit conflict) (Non-administrator comment) Given that Sevvyan seems to be blanking other peoples' comments as Jeppiz pointed out, and as is obvious from the History page, might it best to temporarily suspend his ability to edit talk pages outside of AN/I? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 9 Adar 5775 19:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
user:186.145.154.52
Could somebody check the above mentioned user's edits? Seems like vandalism. --Catflap08 (talk) 19:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Linking to their contribution history, just to make this easier. --IJBall (talk) 19:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Here you go [93]--Catflap08 (talk) 20:03, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Abusive IP 72.94.152.209
| Good grief. Hard to know what a good period is; I chose a month, but the same person is on this IP after that I'll go for longer next time. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could someone do something about User:72.94.152.209 (edit talk history links watch logs). They left a bizarrely abusive message on my talk page here. Checking their contribs they seem to be on an abusive spree and have some sort of delusional apocalyptic belief in who they are eg this. It appears to be a static IP so presumably can be indeffed. DeCausa (talk) 15:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah thats right up there with some of the other interesting claims I've seen made here. Can we also check where your hiding your nuclear weapons DeCausa as per their statement here[94]. Amortias (T)(C) 15:19, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, my evil plan is uncovered: step 1 ruin Prophecy of the Popes article. Step 2 destroy London. (They seem to be of equal malevolence in his mind). I enjoyed Damián A. Fernández Beanato's response: "Are you a sedevacantist or a supporter or other claimants to the papacy?" DeCausa (talk) 15:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Even static IPs can be reallocated so it shouldn't be indef blocked, just for a long time. Squinge (talk) 15:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- At first, I just thought that we've got a case of WP:NOTHERE. The IP also seems to think that I'm a "hateful, proud Englishman" (when I'm clearly an American asshole) for leaving a polite explanation of site policies and guidelines that he doesn't seem able to comprehend. With that and the message they left DeCausa, I don't think we can assume the requisite sound mind required to edit. If they insist on a 16th century mindset, they can have a period appropriate ability to edit the site. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes - quoting from the diff I linked to earlier also demonstrates that:
You will be destroyed on March 25, 2016 A.D. Until then, this shall include sixteen hours per day of pure terror beginning at the next hour and minute I took my first breath resurrected; the remaining eight hours carrying with it the promise that if you should ever show your cowardly countenance before me, I will rip your arms, legs, and head from your trunk. There are two other options : 1) Tie a millstone around your neck and drown yourself.2) Cease and desist your miserable, greedy, hateful, raping, incestuous, lying, thieving, murderous, perjuring conduct...
DeCausa (talk) 17:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)- I wonder if emergency@wikipedia would be willing to pretend the threat is serious (it is, in the since that the IP is earnest about it, if incapable of carrying it out), and get the police on them? Ian.thomson (talk) 17:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes - quoting from the diff I linked to earlier also demonstrates that:
173.161.198.25 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) - definitely block evasion. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Blocked by User:Materialscientist. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
User:DD2K and User:Rjensen engaging in personal attacks in lieu of discussion
A content dispute has been taking place on the article Democratic Party (United States). I have only reverted to the last stable version, which DID NOT include the content in question. @Rjensen: @DD2K: have been edit-warring to try to include the new content. [95] [96] [97] While maintaining the last stable version (within my 3RR limits),[98] [99] [100] I have encouraged the other editors to use the talk page to hash out new content, rather than edit-warring over it, and directly spoke to Rjensen with a friendly warning and an attempt to show that I'm reasonable and willing to discuss this issue.[101] When Rjensen finally DID go to the talk page, he/she titled the thread "POV edits by TBSchemer," rather than creating a thread focused on the content they were trying to add. This is entirely inappropriate harassment. Additionally, this is not the first time Dave Dial has engaged in this sort of behavior. Dave Dial has engaged in a wikihounding campaign of overly-personal reversions and unprovoked personal attacks against me and other editors, with a long history of failing to discuss his edits. [102] [103] [104] [105] He has been warned for this behavior directly by Jimbo Wales himself. [106] I have tried to maintain civility with this editor, but he seems determined to blow it up. When I finally reported Dave Dial for joining the edit war (which I have stopped participating in out of respect for WP:3RR), he and Rjensen ganged up on me to try to argue that I should be banned.[107] Dave Dial has repeatedly shown that he is incapable of dealing constructively with other editors. To my knowledge, Rjensen does not have the same sort of record of disruptive behavior, but he/she is largely responsible for the current problem. I need an administrator to help remind these users of WP:Civility and convince them to either engage with me without personally attacking me, or just leave me alone. TBSchemer (talk) 21:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- This is already being discussed at the edit warring noticeboard here. 331dot (talk) 21:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- This one is a report on the personal attacks (a conduct dispute) that requires administrator intervention to get these two users to behave with civility. The other is a report on edit-warring (a content dispute) that requires administrator intervention to restore the last stable version of the article and perhaps to protect it until these disputes can be resolved. TBSchemer (talk) 22:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- The edit warring noticeboard closed the discussion there and referred me here. So this is now the open thread on these problems. TBSchemer (talk) 22:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- While article discussion headings should not mention editors, you would be best advised to change the heading and politely refer the other editor toi the "New topics and headings on talk pages" guideline. That does not require administrative action. Also, you appear to be in a content dispute with three other editors. There is nothing administrators can do about that. If you disagree with the others, then you need to post to a content discussion page and hope other editors will weigh in. I suggest this section be closed. TFD (talk) 02:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- But dealing with User:DD2K's hounding and personal attacks does require an administrator. He has met all the requirements for a block, and doing so would prevent him from causing further disruption. TBSchemer (talk) 10:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- And Rjensen continues to attack my character on that same thread, even after I have disengaged. On this thread, he has openly and knowingly lied about the content dispute (claiming that I was the one who made new edits to this article, when in fact I only reverted new edits to the last stable version). These editors have made it their goal to exclude me from being part of any consensus. How is this not block-worthy? In my days as a Wikipedia novice, I was blocked for far less. TBSchemer (talk) 10:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Are you telling me I can create threads with whatever sort of title I want without getting sanctioned for it? So if I were to take that same thread, and replace my username in the inappropriate title with Rjensen, I would not be punished in any way? TBSchemer (talk) 10:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- While article discussion headings should not mention editors, you would be best advised to change the heading and politely refer the other editor toi the "New topics and headings on talk pages" guideline. That does not require administrative action. Also, you appear to be in a content dispute with three other editors. There is nothing administrators can do about that. If you disagree with the others, then you need to post to a content discussion page and hope other editors will weigh in. I suggest this section be closed. TFD (talk) 02:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
@TBSchemer: My own personal experience editing alongside Rjensen has been similar to your own, so I have great sympathy for your position. Your best strategy is to focus on the content dispute and use the dispute resolution process, such as RfC, etc. Viriditas (talk) 03:07, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- DD2K has a nasty habit of hounding editors who he reverts (often without discussion) and they then reinstate their edit. I have just posted an article at Jimbo's page addressing some of these concerns and the toxic editing atmosphere here. 208.54.38.224 (talk) 04:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- After I attempted to remove the personal attacks from the talk page as per Wikipedia:Civility#Removing_uncivil_comments, Dave Dial restored those comments and insisted he would report me for editing other's comments. Please, I need an administrator's help in dealing with this guy. Is there anyone here who will actually help? TBSchemer (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Likely POV-forking of Lhasa
| Non-admin closure by Aymatth2 – issue resolved |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(The subject title may not be completely fair to Aymatth2 (talk · contribs), but I can't think of a better way of characterizing it. Also pinging Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) and Zanhe (talk · contribs), who had been involved in the discussion there.)
These users (largely Aymatth2) and I had been engaging what I thought had been good-faith, if heated, discussions about 1) splitting Lhasa into two articles and 2) what the proper names and the scope of those articles should be. (See the discussions at WT:CHINA#Category:Lhasa Prefecture.) Neither side has been able to convince the other, apparently. But I would like neutral administrator(s) involved in the matter now because it appears that POV-forking may be occurring - as just within the last couple days, Aymatth2 disclosed that he had been writing a separate article in his user space (which he is free to, of course) and planning on then moving it into the main namespace as a completed article. (See the postings toward the end of the discussion - specifically the quote of "I take it that when I request a move into mainspace of the draft article on the prefecture-level region you will either vote to merge it into Lhasa, or after seeing what it looks like you will support the move.") This, as I have been arguing, would disrupt the naming convention formed by years of consensus at WP:NC-ZH and should not be done. I don't disagree with splitting the Lhasa article (and I don't think there is any dispute from anyone else). I disagree with the manner that he's going at it - by proposing a disruption of the naming convention and not addressing the counterarguments.
It sounds to me that this, while not vandalistic behavior nor POV-warring in the classic sense, nevertheless is effectively POV-forking. I've quoted the criteria of POV-forking to him and hoping that he would reexamine this. However, as I said, I am hoping that neutral administrators can get involved in case my own judgment is being clouded by the argument (which is likely) and also see if there is some other way to resolve the matter. Aymatth2's contributions are valuable. But I think in this case I want to try to end/moderate the dispute before I have to effectively argue that good contribution should be deleted because of POV and disruption of consensus as reflected in the naming convention.
Again, help is wanted for my own sanity and the sanity of all those involved. --Nlu (talk) 18:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
"POV forking", yes, is quite a ridiculous accusation. I think you have to look at how large the Lhasa reigonal area is and how feasible is it to cover it all in the main article. The city alone, especially historically has enough to be said about it, let alone decent information on the economic practices etc of the wider region. I agree with Aymatth2 that it is practical to have both. I would encourage the same for any city in China with a wider regional area. It really is like saying you can't have an article on New York State itself, only New York City. I'd have Lhasa as the main settlement article and Lhasa (prefecture-level city) for the overall regional area with hatnotes putting each in context.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I have not yet started an article on Lhasa Municipality, but plan to do so in my user space in the next two or three weeks. I will then formally propose a move to mainspace. I have discussed this on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China page, and find no valid objection to slightly changing the scope of the article on Lhasa to focus on the well-known small city, with a separate article describing the 13,000 km2 municipality that surrounds it. Any concerns can be brought up in the requested move discussion. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Dr. Blofeld, I have never opposed a split. I have, and I think with good reasons that neither you nor Aymatth2 addressed, opposed the naming and scope as proposed. Therefore, the comparison to the New York city/state situation is not apt. Moreover, one of my main objections is that "Lhasa" (as a "small city") is poorly defined. New York City is well-defined as the five boroughs. That makes the situation completely different, actually. Regardless of the merits, though, it is still POV-forking. POV-forking is not the same as, "Everything that is written is/will be trash." In fact, it is often that that is not the case - that the POV-forker's position has substantial merit - that led to the POV-forker to be ardent enough in his/her position to conduct POV-forking - just as what Aymatth2 is doing here. I trust that what Aymatth2 writes is not going to be trash. But it's the failure to address the substantial merits of the opposing position that makes it POV-forking. And note what you are saying here: "I would encourage the same for any city in China with a wider regional area." That is exactly the reason why it shouldn't be done. If extended in this manner, it would destroy WP:NC-ZH's geographical naming consensus such that it would no longer be usable. It would fracture the naming scheme into a jumbled mess, if this logic is followed. --Nlu (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu: Forking is not the issue. The requested move would combine putting the article about the municipality into mainspace with focusing the Lhasa article on the small city. Is your concern that a requested move of this hypothetical article if approved may upset the project naming conventions? This is a strange incident report. Aymatth2 (talk) 23:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
- I would say that it's an unusual incident report. It's both a report of your behavior (as a highly productive editor but in this case I feel questionable) and my own behavior. I wanted to get neutral parties involved before it get any problematic on both of our parts. --Nlu (talk) 00:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu: If I have been impolite at any stage in this discussion I apologize. Diffs would be useful. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:53, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- No apology necessary. As I've noted, I feel that the questionable behavior is potentially both ways, and that's why I want neutral parties involved. But I would like substantive responses. Effectively, it still comes down to that I am not hearing, as far as I am concerned, any substantive response to my main points of 1) this situation is not unique to Lhasa and that there is no compelling reason to break up the naming convention consensus (which you did not respond to but Dr. Blofeld did, I'll concede - but I find his response to be a horrendous one given the implications that effectively destroy the naming convention) and 2) there is no verifiable, definitive definition of "Lhasa" (as a small city) other than the potential PRC definition of it as coterminal with Chengguan District, which nobody in the discussion (perhaps myself included) liked as a verifiable, definitive definition of "Lhasa." The good theory of a "small city article" for Lhasa is, until such a definition can be rendered, practically fatally flawed in my opinion because if there is no commonly-accepted definition of "small city of Lhasa" (and none was given throughout the discussion by you or by Dr. Blofeld) then the article is necessarily going to be original research and POV-oriented. I've offered up the possibility that such a definition may be obtainable from the Tibetan government in exile - but until that occurs, there is none. (No PRC official site that I can find contains any such definition (although the Lhasa City government site that I gave a link to hints at one - and for that matter, ROC governmental sites, having effectively disavowed control of mainland, including Tibet, doesn't contain any such definition (and as I noted, has not for decades).) These are points that I'd like to see addressed, even if there is no agreement with me. A non-response is not a response, and throughout the discussion, I am feeling that I am making cogent points that I am fully aware that not all will agree with - but then effectively end up talking to a wall as neither you nor Dr. Blofeld respond to them. It is very frustrating. It has led to potentially questionable choice of language on my part (which is why, again, I'd like neutral parties involved), not to mention stress and frustration at the lack of response. I think anyone reading over the entire thread in WT:CHINA will agree that effectively we're talking in circles. I am admitting that I may have some fault in it. I do believe that my points still deserve better than a non-response to my substantive points and a response of, effectively, "I'm going to do it anyway" and "I don't care what you think" and "I'm going to ignore whatever negative consequences you bring up because I think they're not negative consequences." --Nlu (talk) 01:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- WP:POVFORK is not relevant to this situation, because there is no attempt to promote a POV here. Trying to label this disagreement as such is a profoundly unhelpful escalation. Kanguole 01:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The reason why I think it is a POV-forking are this - based on the descriptions given at WP:POV fork (and again, note that the definitions don't require that the POV fork be junk or be done with bad faith - and I don't think that Aymatth2 writes junk at all):
- "Instead of resolving that disagreement by consensus, another version of the article (or another article on the same subject) is created to be developed according to a particular point of view. (In this case, the POV is "the prefecture-level city of Lhasa" is not really "Lhasa.")
- "It could be that the fork was a good idea, but was approached without balance[.]" (In this case, nobody is disputing that it may be a good idea to split Lhasa; it is, however, in my opinion (which I realize may not be agreed with - which is part of the dispute) approached without balance (in this case, the two main objections that I had above that are unaddressed and dismissed in a dismissive manner (is that redundant?)).
- "The most blatant POV forks are those which insert consensus-dodging content under a title that should clearly be made a redirect to an existing article; in some cases, editors have even converted existing redirects into content forks. However, a new article can be a POV fork even if its title is not a synonym of an existing article's title." (In this case, it dodges the WP:NC-ZH consensus that, for proper styling and consistency reasons, the articles with the names of the prefecture-level cities should refer to the prefecture-level city. And, as I was objecting a few weeks back, in effect, an existing redirect is being converted into a content fork. And the last sentence of the portion I quoted effectively anticipates the situation that we are in now: that a naming dispute is being dodged by the creation of a new article.)
- "The creator of the new article may be sincerely convinced that there is so much information about a certain aspect of a subject that it justifies a separate article." (That's exactly what we are having here.)
- "Any daughter article that deals with opinions about the subject of parent article must include suitably-weighted positive and negative opinions, and/or rebuttals, if available, and the original article should contain a neutral summary of the split article." (This is, based on the tenor of the discussion, not going to be adhered to - while this description largely refers to a situation where something is being praised/attacked rather than what we have here, the description is still apt; the POV being advanced is, "Anything other than the small city of Lhasa is not really 'Lhasa'" (and note that we still do not have a proper definition, even in this discussion here).) Indeed, the tone is (in not as impolite terms, but still comes down to) "I don't care if I can't define 'Lhasa'; it's not the prefecture-level city; and I'm going to create an article that defines the prefecture-level city as 'not Lhasa' whether you like it or not, and no matter what it does to the naming convention.") This is disruptive, even if there is no intent to disrupt. And it is POV that is non-neutral. A neutral POV solution would be not intentionally creating a substantial deviation from the naming convention. It would instead address the issue of the history/culture/urban development within the article itself or within a daughter article that properly acknowledges that there could be several definitions of "Lhasa." It certainly wouldn't simply disregard (whether it ultimately deviates or not from it) the analogous situations with other prefecture-level cities.
- I don't see how why this is not POV-forking. Indeed, it seems to fit POV-forking's definitions quite well. Again, that doesn't mean that material that is being written is junk. But it is a POV fork to dodge the naming convention. --Nlu (talk) 01:35, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- There is a difference of opinion on whether or not the article should be split into two articles of different scopes. The argument is about naming conventions, while the essence of POV-forking is that the purpose of a fork is to avoid the NPOV policy. That is quite a serious accusation, and trying to recast different views about naming and scope as misconduct of that sort is very inappropriate and needs to stop. You need to find a way to get more editorial (not administrative) views on the original naming issue. Kanguole 09:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Kanguole: With all due respect - and perhaps your voice is the type that needs to get involved lest that I get overly heated on this - I think if you read the thread in question on WP:CHINA, you will see that that has exactly been what Aymatth2 and I have been trying to do, and that the situation is deteriorating because I am feeling that Aymatth2 is not at all responding to my concerns and perhaps the feeling is mutual. Dr. Blofeld's lack of incivility (an example is shown below with his accusing me effectively of being a PRC puppet) hurt the discussion rather than help it. It requires intervention. Call it editorial or administrative, it still requires intervention. --Nlu (talk) 16:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- There is a difference of opinion on whether or not the article should be split into two articles of different scopes. The argument is about naming conventions, while the essence of POV-forking is that the purpose of a fork is to avoid the NPOV policy. That is quite a serious accusation, and trying to recast different views about naming and scope as misconduct of that sort is very inappropriate and needs to stop. You need to find a way to get more editorial (not administrative) views on the original naming issue. Kanguole 09:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The reason why I think it is a POV-forking are this - based on the descriptions given at WP:POV fork (and again, note that the definitions don't require that the POV fork be junk or be done with bad faith - and I don't think that Aymatth2 writes junk at all):
- Kanguole Basically Nlu is arguing that we cannot have a separate article on the Lhasa regional unit from the city itself purely because the PRC constitutes Lhasa officially as a "prefecture-level city". What he's not seeing is that from an encyclopedia development view point just one article on a major city and the wider rural area of 13,000 square kilometres is not a feasible way to cover it. Lhasa should cover just the city and Lhasa (prefecture level city) article should overview the entire region. As I say it's much like thinking you're not allowed an article on new York State, all the info about wider rural practices must be covered and mixed in with the urban info on New York City. The naming, if that is genuinely Nlu's primary concern is a minor issue at best and can quite easily be settled by hatnotes, whatever we call them. As I say I think Lhasa should cover the city and Lhasa (prefecture-level city) should cover the region, as that appears to be the official regional type.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu:Mount Nyenchen Tanglha is 7,162 metres (23,497 ft) high. The Pangduo Hydro Power Station generates 599 GWh annually. Reting Monastery in Lhünzhub County was founded in 1057. The article on Lhasa is mostly about the small city, as it should be, and does not give this type of information about the broader area. It is bizarre to say a proposal to add an article on the region would be an attempt to create a POV fork and an incident that requires administrator intervention. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Aymatth2: This is still not a definition. It points to what is in it, but not to the extent. (Plus, it's also not defined by a particular verifiable source or sources.) Is "Apple headquarters and its surrounding areas" a proper definition of Cupertino, California? You might say so, based on the analogy above. I don't. --Nlu (talk) 16:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Aymatth2, the Bonin Islands are farther from urban Tokyo than Korea, but they're still included in the Tokyo article, because they're officially under the jurisdiction of Tokyo. -Zanhe (talk) 23:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Nlu, have you actually been monitoring what Aymatth has accomplished to date for Lhasa regional articles? It's the best work I've seen done regionally in China for quite some time. WP:China is lucky he's spending a lot of time on this. Just let him get on with it eh? Your excessive concern about territory here just looks to me as if you're thinking "Oh no, tremble tremble, what are PRC going to think, I might be shot for allowing this, this is terrible". I think it's quite clear in sources what is referring to the city and the wider region, we don't need to define the exact boundaries anyway. The PRC obviously have a rough idea that the urban area constitutes 53 square km though, so there is actually some official boundary in existence. Whatever we call the article, a hatnote and the actual content of the article should make it crystal clear what we're doing anyway and no reader is going to worry about it. This is totally inappropriate for ANI, an admin please close.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your New York analogy is broken, because New York City and the state are not the same; if we want to use the New York analogy, Lhasa is New York, and the New York City analogue is Chengguan District. Dr. Blofeld, what do you mean by "an article on the region"? Tibet Autonomous Region#Administrative divisions makes it look as if there's no regional intermediary between the city and the autonomous region. WP:NC-ZH says The default naming pattern is "X Class", e.g. Taihang Mountains, Hai River, Fei County. Articles for provinces and cities can leave out the class name, e.g. Liaobei, Beijing. Since the page requires the city article to be at Lhasa, and since the city embraces 30,000 km2, not just the little urban core, can you explain how Lhasa should cover the city and Lhasa (prefecture-level city) should cover the region is in line with the naming convention? The convention must be followed, regardless of contrary discussion at the talk page, and administrative tools need to be used if it's repeatedly violated. Nyttend (talk) 16:19, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- This is inappropriate, Dr. Blofeld, and you know it. And this is the kind of dismissive behavior that I'm talking about. The lack of any verifiable, non-original research definition of what "Lhasa" (the small city) is is a real problem with the five pillars of Wikipedia, not the "five pillars of PRC." (Specifically, this is not-NPOV - with the OR prohibitions part of being that - and you, throughout this discussion, have been at least borderline uncivil and now have gone into full-blown incivility; I feel that Aymatth2 (and admittedly, possibly myself) have also bordered on it due to the lack of intervention, which is exactly what I'm trying to get.) This is an attack based on ethnicity/national origin and is entirely inappropriate. (As I've said, I'm from Taiwan; but had my view points been expressed by an editor from the PRC, it would still be inappropriate.) Again, this kind of thinking is why exactly this is a POV fork. This kind of thinking underlined the unilateral efforts to break the WP:NC-ZH convention - which was reached by Wikipedia editors, not imposed by the PRC or any other government. Again, POV forking. Not with bad intentions. But POV forking nonetheless. And this kind of thinking taints the otherwise valuable efforts to contribute. --Nlu (talk) 16:07, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu:. Officially, for census purposes, metropolitan Lhasa consists of the six urban neighborhoods of Chengguan District, Lhasa. It has sprawled into towns in Doilungdêqên County like Donggar and Niu New Area. Many reliable sources such as Interpreting Urbanization in Tibet talk of the city in this way. We just have to follow the sources. There is no original research needed, no biased point of view. There is indeed a relatively compact built-up area surrounded by a huge and thinly populated area of mountains and grasslands. It is quite standard to describe two such areas in two articles. If the project naming conventions do not allow for that, an exception can be made. But this is not the place to discuss the question – the planned Requested Move is the place for the discussion. There is no incident here that needs administrator attention. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds very similar to Honolulu vs. Honolulu County:
- Honolulu County (officially known as the City and County of Honolulu, formerly Oahu County) is a consolidated city–county located in the U.S. state of Hawaii. The City and County includes both the city of Honolulu (the state's capital and largest city) and the rest of the island of Oʻahu, as well as several minor outlying islands, including all of the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands (islands beyond Niihau) except Midway Atoll.
- For statistical purposes, the U.S. Census Bureau recognizes the approximate area commonly referred to as "City of Honolulu" (not to be confused with the "City and County") as a census county division (CCD).
- --NE2 17:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds very similar to Honolulu vs. Honolulu County:
- Yes, quite similar, and it would be unfeasible to bloat the Honolulu main article with bloat about economic practices and geography of the entire island wouldn't it? For encyclopedia development purposes we have two areas of focus, one on the urban area itself and one on the overall wider region.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- The situation is quite similar, but the key difference is that the US government defines a separate "City of Honolulu" for statistical purposes, whereas the Chinese government does not define a separate "Small City of Lhasa" apart from the large prefectural-level city. Aymatth2's proposal is essentially that in the absence of an official government definition, we should define one on our own, possibly supported by a few cherry-picked sources, which I believe is original research and breaks the WP:NC-ZH convention. -Zanhe (talk) 23:28, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, quite similar, and it would be unfeasible to bloat the Honolulu main article with bloat about economic practices and geography of the entire island wouldn't it? For encyclopedia development purposes we have two areas of focus, one on the urban area itself and one on the overall wider region.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Zanhe: Places that range in size from Soho to the Sahara have articles despite having no official government definition. There really is a small city called Lhasa, described by many sources. Project naming conventions cannot prohibit us from having an article about the place. I am intrigued by these frantic efforts to prevent the article on Lhasa from focusing on the small city of Lhasa, the topic any reader would expect to find when they use that search term. Again, the proposed Requested Move discussion is where the question should be explored. There is no incident here that needs administrator attention, just a debate about one article versus two. Aymatth2 (talk) 01:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Soho and the Sahara are well known places that no government has tried (or has the authority) to give an exact definition. In the case of Lhasa, however, an official definition already exists, but you don't think it's good enough. If I proposed to start an article called Tokyo minus the Bonin Islands, because I, like many people, don't consider the Bonin Islands as real Tokyo, would you support my proposal? -Zanhe (talk) 11:31, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Zanhe: As you know, Lhasa Chengguan District (Chinese: 拉萨市城关区; pinyin: Lāsà shì Chéngguān qū) may be translated "Lhasa city urban district". Most people would think of the city as only being the six urban neighborhoods in the valley floor, not the four rural townships in the surrounding mountains. The census makes that distinction to divide the population into "urban" and "rural". Some might think the sprawl down the valley into Doilungdêqên County is really part of the city. But Chengguan District is close enough if we have to conform to some official definition of the city, which I would question. I still do not see that suggesting there should be one article for Lhasa, the well-known small city, and another for the less well known 29,274 square kilometres (11,303 sq mi) former Lhasa prefecture, now Lhasa prefecture-level city, is an incident requiring administrator intervention. Aymatth2 (talk) 12:39, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- An ANI certainly might have been unnecessary had you been willing to concede, or at least address a few of the points that you are apparently now conceding/discussing. It also might have been unnecessary without the condescending, ethnically-charged attitude that Dr. Blofeld has displayed (including here in this thread) - which, frankly, has I think also infected your view of the situation. It also might have been unnecessary had you not effectively threatened to unilaterally implement what you believe to be the proper way to address the split (which, again, I think nobody has contested the concept of, but I do contest the implementation as proposed) by stating that you are writing a "prefecture-level city article" when one exists already - in other words, a POV fork.
- But what it comes down to, in addition to POV-forking concerns (and I indicate outright that this is not the typical POV-forking situation), and more fundamentally problematic, are the original research and lack of verifiability aspects of it. Those do need (or at least may need) administrator intervention because of the lack of neutral voices before you (again, in my opinion; I realize you may reasonably see it otherwise) raised the stakes by effectively threatening an unilateral implementation. I am an administrator, obviously, but I can't and shouldn't be both advocate and judge. Somebody else needs to be involved, and we do have a couple additional voices involved now - one believing this is not an administrative matter (@Kanguole:) and one who, while not apparently necessarily agreeing with everything I'm arguing, believing that the breach of WP:NC-ZH is a serious matter (@Nyttend:). Again, getting good, neutral voices involved is a good thing, whatever their opinions are, as well as they're founded solidly (which they are). I hope that that will get everybody involved here to reexamine their positions. Certainly, though, I still believe that OR, V, and breaking of consensus (as reflected in the naming convention) are serious matters. --Nlu (talk) 16:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu: I have not "threatened a unilateral implementation". I have noted that I expect to prepare a draft article in userspace describing the prefecture-level city, and to submit a Requested Move for editors to review and discuss. I believe this is the correct process. It will be much easier for editors to comment when they can compare the present Lhasa article to the proposed Lhasa (prefecture-level city) article. The request will note that if the move is rejected, the prefecture-level content can be merged into the Lhasa article. If it is accepted, the Lhasa article should be focused on the small city, which requires very little adjustment since it is almost entirely about the small city anyway, and Chengguan District, Lhasa should be merged into Lhasa. The lead can start:
- I see no forking, no original research, and nothing unreasonable about this proposal. A Google Books or Google News search shows that a reader looking for "Lhasa" is almost certainly looking for an article about the small city. There are many examples of separate articles for a city and the region surrounding it.
- The standard hatnote on the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese) says: "This guideline ... is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." The specific guideline on place names says (my undercores): "In general, when deciding to disambiguate a place name, those settlements ranked higher administratively (i.e. higher up the following table) are primary topic over those ranked lower, unless sourcing exists to establish significant notability of a lower-ranked division." That is, exceptions to naming conventions are allowed, but the proposal may not even require an exception since Lhasa Chengguan District, or plain Lhasa, is far more widely discussed in English-language sources than Lhasa prefecture-level city.
- I have no idea why this ANI was started. The Requested Move discussion is the place to identify concerns. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- With these qualifications/concessions, most of my concerns have been alleviated. But it certainly sounded like a threat to unilaterally implement to me, although it's possible that I read too much into the statement. In any case, if there is an agreement that one article is to deal with the prefectural-level city and one article is to deal with the area as defined by Chengguan District, then I think we actually have a consensus (or at least are close to a consensus). The naming issue, as you noted and as I agree (in fact, I argued it at the beginning), can be and should be dealt with more appropriately in a move request. It sounds like your position has substantially shifted toward a conciliatory position (and I do think it has shifted during this particular ANI discussion), and that is something I hope I can reciprocate properly. As I see it, we may have coalesced into two potential positions which editors can decide together as a group which they favor:
- Lhasa (prefecture-level) and Chengguan District, Lhasa (district-level) (you have Lhasa Chengguan District, which I think is awkward and, again, is unnecessarily inconsistent with current naming convention of <district name, prefecture-level city name> (or, in the case where the district name is unique, simply <district name> - although in this case Chengguan District is not unique because Lanzhou also has one (Chengguan District, Lanzhou)), but which can be settled later). (Which, effectively, is the current situation.)
- Lhasa (prefecture-level city) and Lhasa (district-level, understood to be defined as Chengguan District).
- Whatever is the consensus, I can live with. If that were the case for you as well, then I think that the ANI has served its purpose, because there would no longer be substantial risks of original research or lack of verifiability given the definable borders, which were my main concerns - that we don't end up with a "small city" article with ill-defined and originally-researched borders. (The naming issue, as I've noted from the very beginning, can be deviated from for good reasons so as long as there is consensus to do so.) So as long as we don't effectively end up with a threat of having 273 naming schemes for prefecture-level cities, I can live with a second exception, I think. (The first being Jilin City, which is a necessary one.)
- I will also say that the approach that the article you cited (Interpreting Urbanization in Tibet) is intriguing. However, the article admitted its own limitations as far as the available data is concerned, and its own assumptions of what constitutes "urbanization," while innovative, creates other problems. (When applied to, for example, San Jose, California, it would tend to swallow up most of the rest of Santa Clara County and leaving out parts of San Jose itself, which I think nobody would consider a proper definition of what San Jose is.) But if we actually have an agreement that one article is the prefecture-level city and one article is the district, then such concerns no longer exist. --Nlu (talk) 22:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- With these qualifications/concessions, most of my concerns have been alleviated. But it certainly sounded like a threat to unilaterally implement to me, although it's possible that I read too much into the statement. In any case, if there is an agreement that one article is to deal with the prefectural-level city and one article is to deal with the area as defined by Chengguan District, then I think we actually have a consensus (or at least are close to a consensus). The naming issue, as you noted and as I agree (in fact, I argued it at the beginning), can be and should be dealt with more appropriately in a move request. It sounds like your position has substantially shifted toward a conciliatory position (and I do think it has shifted during this particular ANI discussion), and that is something I hope I can reciprocate properly. As I see it, we may have coalesced into two potential positions which editors can decide together as a group which they favor:
- @Nlu: Thanks for that. Let's close this. I still have to write the damned thing, am soured on the subject and am bogged down trying to clean up the sub-articles. The prefecture-level one should just be a summary. Did you know that Drigung Monastery is high in the Himalayan mountains? Rubbish. Aymatth2 (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'll consent to that. Anybody else have any other thoughts? (I shouldn't close this; someone else should.) (Incidentally, though, whether Drigung is in the Himalayas depends on how you define "Himalayas" (which - I'm tempted to say - may be analogous to the issue that brought us here in the first place). (The "strip" on the map in the Himalayas article would appear to include it.) --Nlu (talk) 23:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- Let me just add an additional thought for later discussions: one potential definition which I opine (again, not that it would be necessarily agreed with by anyone else) could be potentially proper would be simply the six urban subdistricts (jiedao), excluding the four rural townships, of Chengguan District. That would also be a definitive, verifiable boundary. But that, again, is discussion for later. --Nlu (talk) 23:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Nlu: I closed it. On the Himalayas, see Lhasa terrane, one of the sub-articles. The Himalayas stop at the Indus-Yarlung suture zone. North of that are the Nyainqêntanglha Mountains. Excluding the rural townships smacks of original research. The administrative area includes some rural areas, which is normal. The text can cover that. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:36, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Note The controversial proposed article has been created in userspace. This is to invite any interested editors to contribute to the discussion on User talk:Aymatth2/Lhasa (prefecture-level city)#Proposed move. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 23:59, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Threat of edit-warring over unnotable external link
An unnotable external link, a 'save our show' Facebook page with 9 likes, has been added to the lede of Odyssey 5. I removed it once, and then a second time mentioning why in the edit summary. It has returned a third time, once again courtesy of User:Pantherslair, with a note on my user page: "The more this information is removed, the more it will be returned." I queried the help chat on how to proceed, and was directed here. DarkProdigy (talk) 21:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Given the threat to edit war on an obviously promotional user page, I would be opting for a block if a warning was given before. I've given such warning, if they do this again I very much support blocking them for this disruptive conduct. Also OP, you neglected to notify them, as mandated by ANI. I've done such too. Tutelary (talk) 21:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- My apologies, I mistakenly placed the notice on User: instead of User talk:. DarkProdigy (talk) 22:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- (ec)Given the full text of what you quoted, it's obvious the user is trying to generate artificial notability.[108] Just a few edits a year ago plus the recent ones. One more reversion and he should get a lengthy "not like". ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:03, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
- Excuse me Tutelary, but after viewing the long history of User:DarkProdigy, they have a reputation for sticking their nose into a number of pages very late in the piece and adding information to pages without any scrutiny. Respectfully speaking, User:DarkProdigy is not some self appointed master controller of pages, and their attempt to cause trouble to another user by complaining to the admins, shows the extent that this user will go to, to self legitimize themselves as the "be all and end all" when it comes to adding or deleting information. Others users have just as much right to add information if they feel it is warranted without being denigrated by DarkProdigy with threats of being blocked or banned. Pantherslair (talk) 14:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- You can't add any bloody thing you feel like to a page. It has to qualify. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 04:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- To the thousands upon thousands of die hard fans all over the world who have been insisting for over 12 LONG years that Odyssey 5 either be continued or completed, so we can finally have some closure, instead of feeling like we have been shafted, IT BLOODY QUALIFIES TO US!! And considering there are not many portals by which to educate and inform people of this, are you going to show some HEART and COMPASSIONATE for ONE LOUSY LINE or are you just going to put your BOOT down on our THROATS??!! Pantherslair (talk) 00:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Pantherslair: "For the thousands of advocates of [some cause] we need a link to [some advocacy site] to publicize [some cause] as we're not getting the attention [the cause] deserves." See WP:NOTPROMO. --NeilN talk to me 14:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Pantherslair: Let me put it another way. This site is intended to host encyclopedic material. Your passionate plea is not encyclopedic. Wikipedia is not a platform for advocacy, period. Find another venue to push your agenda. — Huntster (t @ c) 19:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- To the thousands upon thousands of die hard fans all over the world who have been insisting for over 12 LONG years that Odyssey 5 either be continued or completed, so we can finally have some closure, instead of feeling like we have been shafted, IT BLOODY QUALIFIES TO US!! And considering there are not many portals by which to educate and inform people of this, are you going to show some HEART and COMPASSIONATE for ONE LOUSY LINE or are you just going to put your BOOT down on our THROATS??!! Pantherslair (talk) 00:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- You can't add any bloody thing you feel like to a page. It has to qualify. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 04:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Excuse me Tutelary, but after viewing the long history of User:DarkProdigy, they have a reputation for sticking their nose into a number of pages very late in the piece and adding information to pages without any scrutiny. Respectfully speaking, User:DarkProdigy is not some self appointed master controller of pages, and their attempt to cause trouble to another user by complaining to the admins, shows the extent that this user will go to, to self legitimize themselves as the "be all and end all" when it comes to adding or deleting information. Others users have just as much right to add information if they feel it is warranted without being denigrated by DarkProdigy with threats of being blocked or banned. Pantherslair (talk) 14:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Vandalism only account
| CLOSED | |
| User indef blocked for vandalism by Nakon. (non-admin closure) --IJBall (talk) 03:28, 1 March 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User User:Legit_Grifer_Hard is the latest account of user User:Legitgrifer. Eik Corell (talk) 01:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
NAC revert
Issue has had a reasonable airing and with respect to all parties there is not a lot to see:
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- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
My closure of the Template:Ameri-Cana Ultralights aircraft TfD was reverted by the nominator. Per WP:NACD, "Participants, including participating administrators, should not reopen non-admin closures. If this happens, any editor other than the closer may restore the closure with an appropriate notice ...". Therefore, I request that my closure is reinstated. User:The Banner should follow process if he'd like to have it overturned. I've asked the editor to revert himself on his talk page, but he refused. Alakzi (talk) 11:07, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- As an addendum: TfD is backlogged, so I've been trying to help; the only admin who regularly closes TfDs is User:Martijn Hoekstra. I think these are all of my closes: [109]; [110]; [111]; [112]; [113]; [114]; [115]; [116]; [117]; [118]; [119]; [120]. If the community believes them to be inadequate, then I will not close any more TfDs. Alakzi (talk) 11:07, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Mr. Alakzi: WP:NACD explicitly states Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to an administrator. You are no admin and this case is controversial. So it is you have have breached the guidelines for non-admin closure. The Banner talk 11:09, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- That's a recommendation (quoting: "better left"). However, the guideline is quite unambiguous on the point that participants should not revert a NAC. Alakzi (talk) 11:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- NACD is clear enough in its message: "If in doubt, don't do it. Leave it to an admin". And sorry to say, but you did not get the essence of the discussion that is a conflict between a general rule (policy? guideline?) and a locally reached consensus. The Banner talk 11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- There's no "rule" and no consensus either (which you'd know, if you were to read my close rationale). Any admin could've "botched" the close, but you thought it right to breach the guideline and revert me 'cause I'm not one. The proper way to get a close invalidated is WP:DRV. Alakzi (talk) 11:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- You should have not closed it in the first place. The Banner talk 11:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- There's no "rule" and no consensus either (which you'd know, if you were to read my close rationale). Any admin could've "botched" the close, but you thought it right to breach the guideline and revert me 'cause I'm not one. The proper way to get a close invalidated is WP:DRV. Alakzi (talk) 11:53, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- NACD is clear enough in its message: "If in doubt, don't do it. Leave it to an admin". And sorry to say, but you did not get the essence of the discussion that is a conflict between a general rule (policy? guideline?) and a locally reached consensus. The Banner talk 11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- That's a recommendation (quoting: "better left"). However, the guideline is quite unambiguous on the point that participants should not revert a NAC. Alakzi (talk) 11:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: 3 voted for keep and 3 voted for delete, excluding the nominator. If there is some strong argument for deletion, you can request any other admin to assess the consensus. OccultZone(Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I have voted too now. OccultZone(Talk • Contributions • Log) 12:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not going to comment on this close myself; I'm involved in this one, and my opinion about this close doesn't have much value. But I do want to say that generally, I think the closes of Alakzi are of very good quality, as a ballpark figure, I would have closed about 90% the same way. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 14:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Note. Three people have !voted after (because) the revert's been brought up here. For that reason, I no longer support my original close being restored. However, I'd still like to know if The Banner, or anybody else, is permitted to revert NACs on a whim and go unchallenged. The following is what I've said on his talk page.
- I maintain that my not having heeded a recommendation or supposed lack of experience are not substantive objections; therefore, they're not grounds to overturn a NAC. What's more, it was overturned unilaterally; if left unchallenged, that will ipso facto invalidate all of my past and future closures. Alakzi (talk) 20:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
user:wikishooter continuous in Thanjavur
| CLOSED | |
| Page protected by Nakon. (non-admin closure) --IJBall (talk) 06:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The user:wikishooter continues to vandal Thanjavur - the ip also needs to be verified as some reverts are anonymous. Please help.Ssriram mt (talk) 03:27, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Please take these disputes to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring or WP:RFPP. Thanks, Nakon 03:51, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- This page has been protected. Nakon 04:41, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Name-calling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/100.0.124.147 Links to their contribution page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/100.0.124.147 Calls people trolls as evidence in Gravity's Talk page history, after being suggested to register a username. TySoltaur (talk) 20:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Nonsense. Review my record, and TySoltaur's failures to AGF, and his failure to keep on the talk page's topic even once. TySoltaur's failure to AGF was pointed out first by Cesiumfrog, it's not just me. TySoltaur was nothing but a bully making disruptive provocative edits -- wasting others' time, effort, and text space to manage it. He hasn't even been a contributor to the article. He lost the protection argument and now can't seem to let it be (although he actually made no arguments for/or against it, he just used the context to play head games and make flippant non-AGF accusations). He continues his disruptive provocation (that's what trolling is, right?) right here on this page by making more baseless accusations (implying a single was plural as in "calls people" vs. the correct "called me"). 100.0.124.147 (talk) 21:31, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Your "record" only goes back three weeks. What's your normal user ID? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi there "Baseball Bugs",
Let's focus on what's actually material. I cited my "record" only to show a lack of a pattern of bad behavior (which shouldn't be material but for the non-AGF accusations initially hurled at me by TySoltaur). What really matters is the interchange between TySoltaur and Cesiumfrog and me. Or is this some kind of privy council? TySoltaur's chest-bumping followed by crocodile tears, and your own vague passive-aggressive pointless remarks are all very asinine. Is this page supposed to be productive or just a place to "pile on"? If you're going to be another bully, then I suggest you knock it off right now. I'll say to you too, play constructively or go home. 100.0.124.147 (talk) 23:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- In no particular order. TySoltaur, you shouldn't be pushing IPs to register. You're entitled to your opinion regarding registration, but IPs have a right to edit without registering. Baseball Bugs, don't ask IPs to disclose an account name, assuming they have one. If you think the IP is evading a block, then open an SPI. Finally, 100.0.124.147, stop calling other editors names. It's not constructive for you to vent. If in your opinion other editors are not focusing on what you think is "material", then say that without the name-calling.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- You know full well that SPI's about IP's will be ignored. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- In all fairness, anonIP, it's hard to AGF when your first post in the talk section is ranting about the topic being locked for so long. Had you asked nicely, I wouldn't have had any problem at all. It's the way you posted that caught my attention and brought suspicion. And Bbb23, I wasn't 'pushing', I was merely suggesting registering a username so they could edit without worrying about a topic being protected. Nothing more.TySoltaur (talk) 08:01, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Disruptive AfD nomination
| Done, with our thanks to SarekOfVulcan. If there is further disruption, further consideration can be given to the secondary query, though Sarek has addressed this in passing. St★lwart111 08:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Calum Henderson has attempted (unsuccessfully) to nominated the article Violence against women for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/violenceagainstwomen. As the deletion rational makes clear, this is only to make a point and not a legitimate nomination. I would like to ask an administrator to delete the nomination page and warn the user about WP:POINT. Also I was wondering if the Men's rights movement article probation could be extended to cover Violence against women as the article has been frequently targeted by men's rights activists. Kaldari (talk) 00:28, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I've sort-of-speedy-kept the AfD. Looking into further action. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:33, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I don't like stretching the Men's Rights probation this far, though. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but I don't think it's right... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:35, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is a religion " Ip is back
| IP BLOCKED, PAGE PROTECTED | |
| IP blocked, page protected by FPAS. Antandrus (talk) 17:04, 1 March 2015 (UTC) | |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can we get someone to take care of this guy again ?? -- Moxy (talk) 16:37, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Edits of Sacha Sach
| Blocked for 24 hours for disruptive editing, NPOV and edit warring. Hopefully they'll rent a clue. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 19:17, 1 March 2015 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Seems to be WP:NOTHERE: [121], [122], [123], [124], [125], [126] --NeilN talk to me 17:36, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Continuing: [127] --NeilN talk to me 18:05, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Second Neil's complaint about blatant soapboxing eg [128]. Can some admin issue the needed block? Abecedare (talk) 18:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Topic ban for DonaldKronos
DonaldKronos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
DonaldKronos continually refuses to assume good faith from anyone who doesn't give him his way, and is dedicated to pushing original research against consensus. This can hopefully be remedied by topic banning him from the subject that he has ideological issues with.
- He filled the intro with a bunch of WP:SYNTH WP:OR.
- He edit-warred to restore the material even after consensus was to remove it
- After being warned about edit warring, he immediately responded with hostility, calling the explained reversion by multiple editors "vandalism" (part of WP:TEND), claiming that work that is so despised within the Wikipedia community and attributing malevolent obscurantism to everyone who reverted him (while showing serious WP:OWN issues)
- He accusing editors of trying to "deceive the public" (part of WP:TEND)
- All of his discussion with editors (seriously, look for on any talk page, I'm not gonna even both linking) is to push the idea that biological evolution and the various non-biological evolutions are all part of the same unified evolutionary force; demanding that the Evolution page shift its focus accordingly despite consensus that the article (accurately) focuses on biological evolution (part of WP:TEND)
- He has demanded answers to questions that were answered repeatedly and in a variety of ways (WP:IDHT)
- After the above, he received a block for edit warring, promising to leave the site and accusing others of censorship and "HIDING THE TRUTH!" and "DECEPTION" (even calling their actions "an attack against humanity")
- He then engaged in off-site recruitment and tried to defend it and straight up admitted it. (WP:MEAT)
- Even after being blocked he continued to call any reversion of his work vandalism. He also continued to regularly complain about supposed ill-treatment that is completely a matter of him only assuming bad faith from anyone who doesn't give him his way, not actual ill-treatment. And he continued to refer to the Evolution article as starting out "with blatant lies".
- After the block was over he continued to raise the same argument despite the clear consensus from last time that it was redundant, unnecessary, and confused matters (WP:REHASH) with more original research
- He admittedly improved his reaction to opposition for a bit, but still continuing to go under WP:REHASH, but went back to refering to his side as honesty (implying that anyone who doesn't support him is being dishonest), eventually going back to all-caps claims that things are "FALSE" and implications of deception
- "I'm not the one trying to hide anything here" - This is what made me start writing this report. "I'm not the one trying to hide anything here" is a clear implication that others are trying to censor the article, especially in light of his past actions and claims. This is confirmed when he (accidentally in the wrong place) thanked someone who didn't disagree with him for "standing up for honesty", which may as well be a direct accusation toward other editors of malevolent obscurantism.
- He continues to ask for good faith (which he is given, it's competence we're not assuming) while refering to anyone who disagrees with him as "trying to censor" things
- After the thread was closed, he opened up a new one that continued to imply "oppression and censorship" by those who disagreed with him, and called for discussion (only among those who agree with him) "without fear of ridicule" (another false accusation since there was no ridicule in the previous thread).
DonaldKronos has ideological issues relating to evolution that make him tendentious and disruptive, and does not appear capable of evolving out of such behavior. He is incapable of assuming good faith with others on that topic, and does not appear to be capable of evolving that capacity. He should not be allowed near any page relating to any kind of evolution (except maybe Pokemon, I'll leave that for the community to decide). He has made edits elsewhere (granted edits I have not looked into), so I will only ask for a topic ban from topics relating to any type of evolution (Pokemon excluded, unless the community feels that too is also necessary). I am open to other options so long as they keep him away from Evolution (동음이의) and the articles it links to. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support time-limited topic ban from evolution and evolution-rated pages (not just articles), broadly construed. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 06:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support People maintaining the articles need a break. I try to monitor the topic but this user's promotion of something is very unhelpful—see Talk:Evolution#Suggestion for Improved Accuracy and Talk:Evolution (disambiguation)#Suggestion for Increased Accuracy. Johnuniq (talk) 06:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support While DonaldKronos can be trusted to make constructive or at least good intentioned edits, his incessant siege mentality towards people whom he has failed to persuade makes all attempts at discussion with him monumentally difficult, if not entirely impossible. So, yes, a topic-ban of all evolution-related pages should be placed on him until he can grow up.--Mr Fink (talk) 06:45, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Two simple questions. 1. Is the evolution of Wikipedia important, unimportant, or non-occuring? 2. Is Wikipedia biological?
- No need to ban me. I saw this coming long time ago. Anyone who voices concerns in certain areas will be systematically intimidated, ridiculed, and eventually banned. I've been watching for longer than I have been trying to help here. Obviously, things are not going to get better here any time soon, and I'm not in the mood for more of the same treatment. What I have had to say with regard to the evolution page was not my main issue. The issue is that people who could be beneficial to the evolution of Wikipedia are being strongly discouraged from doing so, and I think it's a shame that so many are afraid to speak up. So I have spoken up, because I felt that someone had to. Not all evolution is biological evolution, and I hope those who can not accept that fact will some day learn to allow Wikipedia to evolve in spite of their inability to see it.
- take care.
- DonaldKronos (talk) 07:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Given what you've said in the past, I do not believe you're really going to leave. Hell, even now, you're not even taking into account what others say except where it suits you.
- As always, you provide no source that explicitly ties biological evolution and the different kinds of non-biological evolution into some overall Evolutionary force, even when that's not what the discussion is about. Even now you make lying accusations of intimidation and ridicule toward good-faith editors who have been stern but civil. Those people who started to agree with you? Notice that I didn't list them, and notice that no one is asking for them to be topic banned either. You just keep assuming malevolence, and give us no reason to believe that you have the capacity to assume good faith or collaborate. -- That is the problem here. That behavior is why you are being topic banned, so you can find some subject that you're not religiously biased about and learn to actually collaborate.
- Ian.thomson (talk) 07:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- DonaldKronos (talk) 07:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- I didn't say I'm going to leave. I simply feel that I'm metaphorically banging my head against a wall trying to make the evolution page and its disambiguation page start with a non-deceptive definition... and I don't like the feeling.
- By the way, I have read through part of the list of accusations against me. While there is a hint of truth in some of them, I can't say the same for most.
- I do not plan to read the rest of them, because I find it painful, but I would encourage anyone considering them to look carefully at the evidence, and consider carefully why I have tried so hard to save Wikipedia from stagnating and perpetuating false statements. I have dealt with too much dishonesty here. Perhaps its best for my sake if I learn to ignore it as so many other people have managed to do.
- This project (Wikipedia) will likely long outlive every one of us here today. I care about what it may bring into our distant future. It is an ambassador of a sort, and I hope it will represent us in a good light, rather than merely highlighting our flaws.
- Do as you see fit.
- DonaldKronos (talk) 07:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, thanks to anyone who has heard me out.
- DonaldKronos (talk) 07:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- If you are not going to leave, then there is a need for a topic ban (you will be allowed to edit other articles, just not those relating to evolution).
- While most editors here do believe that this encyclopedia serves the greater good and is an achievement for humanity, that high talk is ultimately a red herring with no bearing on your behavior. We assume good faith from you, just not competence. As many have explained to you over and over, your regular implications that editors who disagree with you are "perpetuating false statements," and trying to make the site highlight humanity's flaws are a sign that you do not believe that people who disagree with you are trying to help (i.e. that you do not assume good faith from others). Your attempts to try and justify your actions sound just like every other religiously biased editor who thinks that their faith in some lofty truth trumps the requirement for sources or consensus. Personal beliefs are fine, but quit trying to force those beliefs into the articles. Ian.thomson (talk) 07:47, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support topic ban. There may indeed be a valid subject in the wider sense of the concept of evolution, but Wikipedia is not the place to pioneer it. A Wikipedia article would first require the wider concept to be already established and written about in multiple reliable sources (and for the word "evolution" to be primarily associated with that wider concept), and I'm not seeing that in the contested edits here. What I am seeing is the editor using disparate sources to synthesize the wider concept, and that really is not something that an encyclopedia should be doing. It's an easy mistake to make and in itself would not warrant a topic ban, but when it comes to tendentiously pushing one's viewpoint against Wikipedia's WP:SYNTH and WP:OR rules and against consensus (and attacking and denigrating those who disagree), then it crosses a line. The consensus is that Wikipedia's Evolution article should be about biological evolution (as discovered by Darwin and Wallace and developed by biologists since), and the only way to change the article into something else would be to achieve a new consensus through discussion. Squinge (talk) 11:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support topic ban. This user has become, well actually has pretty much been since he arrived at the evolution page, a massive time sink. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Support topic ban from evolution and evolution-rated pages , broadly construed. Here is some advice for DonaldKronos based upon my own experience; There are a few topics on Wikipedia that I care deeply about. I avoid those topics, because I have made a conscious choice that I am here to build an encyclopedia, not promote my personal point of view no matter how right I think I am. Wikipedia will be doing you a favor by topic-banning you from evolution topics. If you spend more time in areas where you don't care so deeply, you will find yourself again and again dealing with editors who strongly believe that the page should contain Truth instead of reporting what is in reliable sources. As you get into the habit of following the sources no matter where they lead, you will prepare yourself for the day when you can request that the topic ban be lifted and start making constructive changes to evolution pages that nobody disputes -- because they are properly sourced. I know it must feel like we are all ganging up on you, but we have a good reason. By following the sources, editors with opposing points of view can work together collaboratively and build an encyclopedia -- a skill which you currently lack. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:30, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. A lot of these diffs are kind of old. I remember a few that come from his talk page, as I tried to intercede after I noticed that he was becoming very frustrated. Yeah, he's undeniably been tendentious in the past. However, I think that some of his replies in this conversation show that he's capable of being reasonable. I think part of the problem is that people aren't willing to let his previous behavior go. I know it will take a great deal of patience from the involved editors, but maybe they could try to give him another chance. Donald is obviously trying to improve the encyclopedia, even if he's going about it in a way that's flawed. Maybe a mentor would help. Do we still do that? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 10:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment:DonaldKronos' final missive here suggests that the primary person who is unwilling to let his previous behavior go is himself. I, myself, don't doubt that he wants to improve Wikipedia, the problem is that he is unwilling to cooperate with editors that have different points of view, and his siege mentality has ground away everyone else's patience.--Mr Fink (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I saw that. Honestly, I don't think it's all that bad. It's off-topic and perhaps should be removed from the talk page, but it's not nearly as bad as his earlier posts, which were abusive rants. It seems like Donald is more interested in debate than he is in collaboration, but it's still an improvement. With a little patience, maybe we can nudge him to collaborate instead of debate. Guy Macon posted a pretty compelling "support" vote above me, but I think there's still hope. This complaint uses months-old diffs as evidence of disruption, and I just don't see how they're applicable today. How many of those diffs above are from the past week? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- About a third of the stuff is since the last ANI thread, about a quarter (overall) from the past week, in which he shows continued problems with WP:AGF, with continued suggestions that the only way to be honest is to agree with him. The temporary improvement was mostly because he was under the impression that he could engage in argumentum ad nauseum, and in that time he actually got worse about sourcing (before he provided WP:SYNTH, now he just makes assertions and barely tries to bring in sources). He started a thread on WP:Disruptive editing asking that people who disagree with him butt out and to let only people who agree with him discuss the matter. He may have asked for that politely, but he was still ultimately asking for permission to engage in argumentum ad nauseum to create an echo chamber pseudo-consensus while hypocritically asking for censorship). Politeness alone means nothing if it is a mask for someone who still does not assume good faith, thinks collaboration means doing what he wants, and thinks debate should an ideological circle-jerk. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I saw that. Honestly, I don't think it's all that bad. It's off-topic and perhaps should be removed from the talk page, but it's not nearly as bad as his earlier posts, which were abusive rants. It seems like Donald is more interested in debate than he is in collaboration, but it's still an improvement. With a little patience, maybe we can nudge him to collaborate instead of debate. Guy Macon posted a pretty compelling "support" vote above me, but I think there's still hope. This complaint uses months-old diffs as evidence of disruption, and I just don't see how they're applicable today. How many of those diffs above are from the past week? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment:DonaldKronos' final missive here suggests that the primary person who is unwilling to let his previous behavior go is himself. I, myself, don't doubt that he wants to improve Wikipedia, the problem is that he is unwilling to cooperate with editors that have different points of view, and his siege mentality has ground away everyone else's patience.--Mr Fink (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Conduct of Jack Sebastian
- (retitled from Persistent Hounding by Jack Sebastian per wp:TALKNEW) --doncram 17:20, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
User being reported: Jack Sebastian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User Jack Sebastian has been hounding me for several days now and I feel the need to report it.
Diffs of the user's reverts:
Five of the articles (Arrow, Glen Winter, American Horror Story: Freak Show Talk page, Ben Sokolowski, Atom (Ray Palmer)) the user had never edited before. He was simply monitoring my history. I am far from a perfect editor (apologies for the awful formatting of this post), but that does not mean that I'm incapable of making valuable contributions to this encyclopedia. This user is one of the crudest and most improper I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. He makes it nearly impossible for me to edit without fear of reversion and a verbal lashing. Assistance would be greatly appreciated. LLArrow (talk) 06:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Haven't seen an actual verbal lashing, I've seen reversions but I'm missing the exact problem.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 10:41, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- @LLArrow: The first diff above is about the Ben Sokolowski article, and conveyed good point that you should not lose a citation. I see that in this diff at same article Jack Sebastian asked you to discuss at Talk, but there's no discussion there. I see you went on with edits having edit summaries, but no one opened discussion at Talk. In the second diff above, about Merlyn (DC Comics), Jack Sebastian also asks you to discuss at Talk. I see that Jack opened discussion himself at Talk, and you responded, and someone else participated; hopefully it is being worked out. Based on just these first two diffs, it seems like a fair suggestion to you to use the Talk page to discuss matters where there appears to be disagreement. Follow wp:BRD process. If you want to make a change and find your edit is reverted, then YOU should open discussion at Talk page and explain your intentions. Edit summaries are inadequate. At these 2 articles Jack seems reasonable....nothing to complain about at wp:ANI. I think you have to make more effort to communicate at the articles, and for an ANI report, you also have not made adequate effort to communicate, IMHO. Hope this helps. --doncram 17:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- With respect, you both are missing the point. Hounding, hounding is the overwhelming issue here. While I probably should take more issues to the Talk pages, the edits/changes I make are far less controversial than some, yet Jack Sebastian only reverts my work, in most cases. The user pops up everywhere I go. It's gotten to the point where I am miserable when contributing to articles, for fear that he will quickly undermine my work. He singles me out on Talk page discussions in order to villainize me [138]. I tried notifying him [139], but he just chalked it up to thorough police work. If you look at his recent contributions a great deal involve me. Honestly I fail to see how anybody can't see this is a blatant case of Wikipedia:HOUND. LLArrow (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- From WP:WIKIHOUNDING:
- Many users track other users' edits, although usually for collegial or administrative purposes. This should always be done carefully, and with good cause, to avoid raising the suspicion that an editor's contributions are being followed to cause them distress, or out of revenge for a perceived slight. Correct use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing unambiguous errors or violations of Wikipedia policy, or correcting related problems on multiple articles. In fact, such practices are recommended both for Recent changes patrol and WikiProject Spam." [...]
- "The important component of wikihounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or to the project generally, for no overriding reason. If "following another user around" is accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behavior, it may become a very serious matter and could result in blocks and other editing restrictions."
- Could you show specific diffs showing that your contributions are being followed to cause distress or out of revenge, as opposed to correcting related problems on multiple articles?
- Possibly related:
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive270#User:LLArrow reported by User:Jack Sebastian (Result: No action)
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive273#User:LLArrow reported by User:Gloss (Result: Blocked)
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive261#User:LLArrow reported by User:Gloss (Result: Protected)
- --Guy Macon (talk) 18:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
- Possibly related:
- The user specifically targets me. Other editors make far more controversial or impactful edits than I, but he only reverts mine. I feel as if he is stalking me. I really do not know what else to say. LLArrow (talk) 00:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- I'm really not seeing an issue here. Above Guy Macon points out the hounding policy, asks for more diffs. Controversial? Define that? That's a very broad word. What I can see by looking at Jack's contributions is that he has reverted other editors. Of course you say that he hasn't. Instead of trying to win a fight at ANI, do as Jack suggested. Take it to the talk page. Get a consensus. When you get a consensus make the change. There are multiple means of dispute resolution. WP:DR <Check them out. There's a way to get a third opinion, there are RFC's, and there are noticeboards.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 02:17, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- The user specifically targets me. Other editors make far more controversial or impactful edits than I, but he only reverts mine. I feel as if he is stalking me. I really do not know what else to say. LLArrow (talk) 00:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- This is frustrating, what use is taking a case of hounding to this board if nothing will come of it?. Take a detailed look at the users history. He is rash, rude, and incredibly improper with other editors. He should be reprimanded for that alone.
- Perhaps "controversial" wasn't the appropriate word. Other editors can make substantial changes to a page, Jack Sebastian has no qualm; I edit the page, he quickly reverts claiming that before I make any changes, I must gain consensus on the Talk page. This[140] is a good example. LLArrow (talk) 05:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Hello pot, have you met kettle? If you take such offense at my actions, why would you perform these same actions yourself? Bizarre bevahvior. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:16, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- Perhaps "controversial" wasn't the appropriate word. Other editors can make substantial changes to a page, Jack Sebastian has no qualm; I edit the page, he quickly reverts claiming that before I make any changes, I must gain consensus on the Talk page. This[140] is a good example. LLArrow (talk) 05:08, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
Er, I think you meant this, wherein I noticed that you were edit-warring again, and thought you should self-revert. However, I am indeed incorrect - the four edits are just outside the 24-hour range.
I guess I would wonder whether edit-warring across a number of related articles could be construed as edit-warring? I am seeing a lot of the same behavior over and over again. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:35, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- The editor has clearly noticed he's under the microscope and is in the midst of cleaning up his proverbial act. I may over revert, at times, and it is a fault, but I strive to achieve goals in tandem with other users of Wikipedia. Please do not dismiss this plea as irrelevant or petulant, as it is not either. This user is a menace, and needs to be subjected to penalty. LLArrow (talk) 06:20, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- LLArrow, Subjected to penalty? Sure, fine, ok, But for what? Provide evidence of something actionable. You say Jack has changed his behavior since coming under a microscope and yet there's no real change on their contribution history.
- Jack Sebastian,WP:3RR, A series of edits, one completed edit followed by another completed edit by one editor counts as one edit. To give you an example, Atom (Ray Palmer, LLArrow made 3 total edits on 2/28/15 on this article, 2 of those consecutive or in a series. Those 2 reverts count only as one revert. With that said 3RR is just a bright redline, a rule in relationship to edit warring, and it is not an entitlement to revert 3 times. Whether or not there's edit warring going on, There's been no real evidence provided. Reviewing this provided by LLArrow and following, You provide a coment there that leads me here. It seems though correct me if I'm wrong, we are talking about the same thing at both locations. If the change at Merlyn was made after this RFC was opened that is some questionable behavior. At this though I really don't think theres much to do for either of you.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 09:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Hi, Serialjoepsycho - sorry, after posting about reporting contributor's retaliatory behavior, I didn't follow this thread until this afternoon. I certainly don't feel like I'm "under a microscope";likewise, I have no "act" to clean up. If I see a problem with an edit, I address that problem. If I see continued problems on a specific page or from a specific user, I tend to notice them on patrol. And yep, I was incorroect: there wasn't a blue line violation of 3RR; I was noting that several of the same sorts of reverts were happening on multiple pages. And certainly not just with me. To be clear, I wasn't suggeating a block was in order with my post; I was providing depth to the complaint LLArrow made about me.
- Since LLArrow seems to think that we keep throwing new rules at him, I recommended he seek mentorship, so he can learn how to edit collaboratively - there have been no less than 6 incidents where LLArrow has had (significant) difficulties with several editors (of which I have been one). This tells me that either LLArrow is unaware of the problems he is creating with others, or is unable to prevent himself from creating them. That's why I suggested mentorship.
- He's since stated an unwillingness to improve or doing anything differently. If anything, I would like to suggest that should LLArrow find himself reported here or another noticeboard in the near future, it should be taken into consideration that he was offered advice on how to address these interaction deficits. And refused - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)