위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive830
Wikipedia:피그선더윙과 BLP
이거 닫을게.어떤 행동을 취하자는 제안도 없고, 지금쯤 우리는 잡담만 하고 있을 뿐이다.드레이미스 (토크) 01:44, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 Pigsonthewing (대화 · 기여)과 BLP에 대한 그의 관점에 대해 걱정한다.그는 Csaba Sogor, Franck Proust, Maria Mukniz de Urquiza를 포함한, 참조되지 않은 BLP의 무더기를 만들어 왔다.세 가지 조항 모두 현재 참조되고 있지만, 참조는 다른 사용자에 의해 추가되었다.Pigsonthewing은 이러한 가난하고 BLP를 위반하는 기사들을 가능한 한 많이 쏟아내야 하는 일종의 임무를 띠고 있는 것 같다. 그리고 나는 이 점에서 그의 편집 패턴을 다른 사람들이 그의 뒤를 따라 정리하기를 기대하는 것처럼 보이는 파괴적인 것으로 본다.48시간 전 내가 그의 강연 페이지에서 이 문제를 제기했음에도 불구하고, 그는 살바토레 카론나에 대해 최근 계속 언급하고 있는데, 그 내용은 기본적으로 언급되지 않을 정도로 빈약한 '참고자료'를 포함하고 있다.사소한 문제로서 당신은 또한 기본적인 형식 오류가 포함된 많은 기사들을 주목하게 될 것이며, Pigsonthewing은 그가 만들고 있는 기사들에 대해 별로 관심을 보이지 않는다는 것을 더욱 증명한다.'save'를 클릭하기 전에 기사에 기본적인 참고자료(온라인 전기의 URL 링크처럼 간단한 것)를 추가해 달라는 나의 요청은 부담스러워 보이지 않는다.자이언트 스노우맨 17:18, 2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이런 경험이 풍부한 위키피디아인에게 이런 행동은 매우 골치 아픈 일이다.나는 그 창작물들이 그의 사용자 페이지에 있는 메시지와 연결되어 있다고 생각한다; "나는 앞으로 5일 동안 유럽의회 프로젝트에 참여하고 있으며, 여기서 편집할 수 있는 기회는 제한적일 것이다."내 추측에 의하면 그는 단지 이것들을 추려내고 나중에 와서 고치려고 하지만 그것은 BLP와 전혀 어울리지 않는다.나는 그의 토크 페이지 토론에서 그의 논평을 읽었는데, 이것은 믿을 수 없을 정도로 걱정스럽다; 그것은 진정한 관심사에 대한 끔찍한 대응이고, 정책을 따르는 것에 대한 엄청난 관심 부족을 보여준다.Pigsonthewing이 WP:BLP를 읽어본 적이 있는지 궁금하다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 내려달라고 말해) 2014년 2월 6일 18시 15분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 나는 비소급 기사에 대해 엄청나게 낮은 의견(주제에 관계없이 즉시 삭제하는 것에 찬성한다)과 비소급 기사를 만드는 사람들에 대한 훨씬 더 낮은 의견(창작자가 여기에 일주일만 있었다면 더 잘 모를 수도 있다는 주의와 함께)을 가지고 있다.사용자들이 이 문제를 문제 삼는다는 것을 알았고, 이제 우리는 그가 건설적으로 이 문제를 다룰 의도가 없다는 것을 알았기 때문에 Pigsonthewing이 또 다른 비협조적인 BLP 기사를 만들 경우 혼란을 막기 위해 차단될 것을 권고한다.스벤망구아르드화?19:04,2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이런 것을 만들지는 않지만 그것을 BLP 위반이라고 부르는 것은 그것을 약간 강하게 하는 것이다; 처음 두 번의 구글 히트작이 확인해 준다.드레이미스 (토크)20:57, 2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[
- "침해 위반"은 아니지만, 사실은 모든 새로운 BLP 기사는 소싱되고 완전히 중지되어야 한다는 것이다. 반면에 그 특정 기사의 경우 기술적으로 소싱되었다고 말할 수 있는 반면, OP에 링크된 다른 3개의 기사는 그것조차 가지고 있지 않으며 즉시 그리고 정당하게 - {{Blpprod}}}}이(가) 제공될 것이다.나는 모든 유럽 하원의원들을 혼란스럽게 하고 싶은 앤디의 욕망을 이해할 수 있지만, 그리고 우리는 그렇게 하위 ubs를 만드는 것을 이해해야 한다.설명할 수 없다. - 부시One ping only 레인저 23:36, 2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그렇다, 그것은 그들이 필요로 하는 중요한 요건이고 그녀를 걱정하는 것은 그렇게 하는데 시간이 걸리지 않는다.아마 이 모든 것을 목록으로 통합하는 것이 가장 좋을 것이다. 대부분의 사람들은 달리 말할 가치가 있는 것 같지 않기 때문이다(즉, 전기). 그리고 자필 바이오를 파로잉하는 것은 아마도 좋은 생각이 아닐 것이다. --Errrant 23:41, 2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[
- "침해 위반"은 아니지만, 사실은 모든 새로운 BLP 기사는 소싱되고 완전히 중지되어야 한다는 것이다. 반면에 그 특정 기사의 경우 기술적으로 소싱되었다고 말할 수 있는 반면, OP에 링크된 다른 3개의 기사는 그것조차 가지고 있지 않으며 즉시 그리고 정당하게 - {{Blpprod}}}}이(가) 제공될 것이다.나는 모든 유럽 하원의원들을 혼란스럽게 하고 싶은 앤디의 욕망을 이해할 수 있지만, 그리고 우리는 그렇게 하위 ubs를 만드는 것을 이해해야 한다.설명할 수 없다. - 부시One ping only 레인저 23:36, 2014년 2월 6일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 이 프로젝트는 의회를 사랑하는 위키 / 유럽의회:
- "우리는 이제 2월에 스트라스부르에 있는 유럽 의회를 방문하여 764명의 MEP를 위한 사진 및 편집 프로젝트를 수행할 기회를 갖게 되었다.특히 다음 유럽 의회 선거가 5월로 다가오면서 이런 새로운 글과 사진들이 대중의 강한 관심 속에 자리 잡고 있다고 말했다.
- 만약 이 기사들이 "대중들의 강력한 집중"이 될 것이라면, 대중들은 이 하위 기사들로부터 많은 정보를 얻지 못할 것이다.그러나 재선에 도전하는 MEP들(또는 그들의 보좌관들)이 끼어들어 그것들을 채울까?선거 전에 위키피디아에서 그들만의 기사를 얻을 수 있다는 전망은 MEP들이 이 프로젝트에 대한 접근을 허용하도록 자극하는 데 도움이 되었을지도 모른다.전혀 문제될 건 없지만 MEP의 사진을 찍은 지 30분 이내에 기사를 만들어야 하는 게 분명 요구조건은 아니지?나는 그 서두르는 것을 이해할 수 없다.Voceditenore (대화) 11:47, 2014년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 게시물이 어떻게 실행 가능한지 보려고 안간힘을 쓰고 있다.확실히 당신은 멍청한 BLP를 만든 것에 대해 누군가에게 행정적인 제재를 요구해서는 안 되는 겁니까?참조 없이 떠 있는 것이 보이면 정책별로 삭제하십시오.단기간에 잘려나갈 가능성이 높은 상태로 만들어지고 있는 것이 인상적이다. --스파이크 윌버리 (토크) 16:02, 2014년 2월 7일 (UTC)[
- 참조되지 않은 수퍼 스텁 BLP를 전체 호스트로 만드는 것은 완전히 부적절하다.이것은 "stub BLP"에 대한 불평이 아니며 (이것들은 1-liner이다), 참고문헌 없이 만들어진 것 이상의 불평이 있다.이러한 경험이 풍부한 위키피디아어(적어도 110k 편집이 가능한 언어)에게는, 이 사건에 대한 그의 대응이 그랬듯이, 이것은 전혀 변명의 여지가 없는 것이다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 내려달라고 말해) 2014년 2월 8일 18시 49분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 아, 그렇구나.그 단점들은 정말 좋지 않고 매우 실망스럽다. 하지만 우리가 그들과 더 잘 지내는 것이 좋다고 주장될 수 있다.그들에 대한 초기 질문은 공정했고, 그 다음엔 모든 것이 내리막길로 접어들었고, 양쪽에 "도움꾼"들의 지지가 조금 있었다.앤디는 스노우맨을 좆이라고 부르고 스노우맨은 ANI로 간다.그러나 나는 우리의 BLP 정책이 애초에 원천이 없는 BLP를 만드는 것을 금지하고 있는 곳을 찾을 수 없을지도 모른다.(소스 없는 BLP를 프로딩할 수 있다고 해서 소스 없는 BLP가 잔류할 수 없는 것은 아니다.)그래서 앤디에게 어떤 조치도 취해지지 않을 것이고, 불행히도 그의 단조로운 창조와 그에 따른 과잉반응(이 바로 이 실--미안하지만 GS)은 관련된 모든 사람들에게 단지 한 가지 더 불쾌한 경험일 뿐이다.모든 관련 편집자들이 해야 할 가장 좋은 일은 그러한 기사들 중 일부를 DYK로 바꾸는 것이다; 그것이 당신의 기분을 나아지게 해줄 유일한 방법이다.드레이미스 (대화) 03:25, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만 이것은 "과잉 대응"이라고 말하는 것은 불공평하다. 많은 편집자들은 이 편집자가 BLP에 대한 관심이 부족한 것에 대해 나의 우려를 공유한 것 같다.자이언트 스노우맨 11:47, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 자이언트 스노우맨의 의견에 동의하고 나를 또 다른 관련 편집자로 세어봐.만약 당신이 참조되지 않은 일련의 BLP를 만들고 110k의 편집이 있다면, 당신은 선을 훨씬 벗어난 것이다.어떤 정책이나 부족이 말하든지 상관없어, 내 생각에는 그냥 이기적이라고 말하는 상식이고, 피그선더윙이 부르는 이름은 태도 문제를 더욱 복잡하게 만든다.이 문제에 대한 편집자 및 관리자에 관한 조치로서, 현재 진행 중인 것으로 보이기 때문에, 나는 기꺼이 Pigsonthewing에 대한 새로운 BLP 금지를 개선 단계로 보고 싶다.나는 여기에 아무런 반응이 없다는 것이 더 걱정스럽다.게임을 시스템이라고 부르겠어.이 모든 것이 내가 보는 바와 같이 보호막으로 접근한다.Jusdafax 12:31, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Pigsonthewing과 같은 시간이 그들이 정책과 문제를 완전히 이해할 수 있을 때까지 모든 새로운 BLP의 창조에 대한 무기한 주제 금지를 지지한다.자이언트 스노우맨 12:34, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
구글의 시대에 "마리아 무니즈 데 우르퀴자는 유럽의회 의원"이라고 말하는 것이 "파리 수도는 프랑스의 수도"라는 본질적인 위키-예는 아니지만, 꽤 근접한 것이다.앤디는 EP의 멤버가 아닌 사람을 한 사람으로 잘못 비난한 적이 있는가?WP의 일부를 인용하겠다.BLP: "모든 인용문 및 도전받거나 도전받을 가능성이 있는 모든 자료는 신뢰할 수 있고 발표된 출처에 명시적으로 귀속되어야 하며, 이는 대개 인라인 인용문으로 이루어진다."(원본을 강조함).무니즈 데 우르키자의 EP 가입이 실제로 도전받고 있는 것일까.NE Ent 12:46, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
12:46에 NE Ent에 동의하십시오.앤디 좀 그만 좀 해.그는 매우 바쁘고 경험이 많은 기고자로 WP와 같은 이니셔티브를 시작할 뿐만 아니라 매우 탄탄한 자료를 만들어 낸다.언론의 상상력을 제대로 사로잡은 위키VIP.
현재 그는 유럽의회에서 많은 일들을 처리하려고 노력하고 있고 몇몇 중요한 의견수렴자들에게 WP에 대한 좋은 인상을 심어주고 있다.그러므로 우리는 부디 길고 훌륭한 경력을 가진 편집자에게 약간의 신뢰를 보여주고, 그가 하고 있는 일을 계속하도록 내버려둘 수 있을까?만약 일주일 후에도 문제가 있다면, 우리는 반드시 다시 그것을 할 수 있다.그가 이 EU 의회를 후원하는 것을 단기간에 목표로 삼을 많은 것들이 있다. 외국에서 그는 그가 계속하면서 만들고 건설해야 할 필요가 있다.그러니 그의 길을 비켜주자.그러나 이러한 기사들은 초기의 일시적인 상태일 수도 있고, 빠르게 진화할 것이라고 확신할 수 있는 모든 이유가 있으며, 장기적인 이슈는 거의 없을 것이다.제힐드 (대화) 13:46, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- Salvatore Caronna에 대한 스노우맨의 반대는 특히 터무니없었다.그 남자는 MEP이고, 매우 명백하게 눈에 띄었다; 그리고 그 기사는 단지 마이크로 스텁일 뿐이지만, 그 내용은 주어진 참고자료에 의해 제공되었다.만약 여러분이 위키를 한 무리의 사람들에게 소개하고 있다면, 이와 같은 스텁은 여러분이 기사의 성장 과정을 보여주는 기준으로서 정확히 필요한 것이 될 수 있다(그 때 여러분이 사용하고 있는 자동화된 또는 반자동화된 도구에 대해 제자리에 있는 기본 활성 URL을 제공할 뿐만 아니라).
- 다시 말하지만, Pigsonthewing은 매우 노련한 편집자로서 중요한 홍보 활동을 하고 있다.그러니 그에게 신뢰를 좀 주고, 그것을 계속할 기회를 주자.제힐드 (대화) 13:56, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만, MEP의 이름/역할에 대한 지식의 광범위한 지식을 프랑스의 수도인 파리에 원격으로 비교하는 것은 완전히 터무니없는 일이다.파리가 프랑스의 수도라는 것은 거의 모든 사람들이 알고 있다.나를 포함한 많은 사람들은 이 사람들이 누구인지 전혀 알지 못하며, 비참조 BLP를 만드는 것에 대한 변명의 여지가 전혀 없다. 왜냐하면 비정형적인 참고자료로 덤핑하는 데 10초가 걸리기 때문에 문제를 부정하기 때문이다.BLP를 참조할 시간이 충분하지 않으면 사용자 공간에서 BLP를 작성하거나 전혀 작성하지 마십시오.나는 당신들 중 누가 어떻게 이 행동들을 옹호하고 있는지 이해할 수 없다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC) 15:31, 9 (
- 그는 노련한 편집자다숙련된 편집자가 이 상태에서 기사를 작성해야 할 이유가 전혀 없으며, 시간은 변명의 여지가 없다.우리는 유즈페이스와 afc를 이유가 있고, 유럽의회 프로젝트는 이것들이 기사공간으로 급히 들어가야 한다는 핑계도 아니다.개인적으로 나는 주제 금지를 지지할 것이다. 왜냐하면 그는 분명히 이 주에서 살아있는 사람의 기사를 만드는 것에 대해 잘못된 생각을 가지고 있지 않고 그 정책을 무시하려고 하기 때문이다.GS에 대한 그의 답변과 그의 토크 페이지에서의 추가 답변 또한 매우 부적절했다.블리터링스코트 18:36, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 비소싱 BLP 기사를 만들 수 없다는 규칙을 만들고 싶다면, RFC를 시작하라.그러나 오늘부로 그런 규칙은 없다.NE Ent 22:18, 2014년 2월 9일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아는 규칙이 없어 잘 알잖아, 엔트당신은 또한 어떠한 사용자도 참조되지 않은 BLP를 만드는 것이 부적절하다는 것을 알고 있다; 그것이 결국 BLPPROD가 존재하는 이유다.정책을 전혀 파악하지 못하는 신입에게는 허용된다."당신의 대안은 얼간이 되지 않는 것"이라는 초기 반응은 말할 것도 없고, 110k 편집자의 경우 완전히 변명의 여지가 없다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 08:22 (UTC) 2014년 2월 10일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 도와주고 있어?이게 도움이 돼?그것이 당신의 제안된 주제를 금지시키는 것인가?만약 내가 여기에 관련된 모든 배우들을 알지 못했다면, 내 눈은 분명히 이미 그들의 눈구멍에서 굴러 나왔을 것이다.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화)20:56, 2014년 2월 10일 (UTC ]
- Pigsonthewing이 건설적인 방법으로 그 문제를 다루기를 거부하는 것이 도움이 되는가?아니, 그가 신경도 안 쓰는 것처럼 보이는 게 있으면 더 나빠지는 거야.또한 어떤 주제를 금지하는가?다른 편집자가 한 사람을 언급했는데, 나는 그것을 지지하겠다고 말했다. 바로 그것이다.공식적인 제안은 없었다.자이언트 스노우맨 12:21, 2014년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- 도와주고 있어?이게 도움이 돼?그것이 당신의 제안된 주제를 금지시키는 것인가?만약 내가 여기에 관련된 모든 배우들을 알지 못했다면, 내 눈은 분명히 이미 그들의 눈구멍에서 굴러 나왔을 것이다.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화)20:56, 2014년 2월 10일 (UTC ]
- 나는 그가 (이 경우 당황스러울 정도로) 순진한 구경꾼들이 추측할 수 있는 것보다 오히려 문제의 근원을 (우리의 전기를 개선)하는 데 더 신경을 쓴다고 의심한다.나는 그가 소규모의 사이비 유괴로 무작위 관리자들에게 속이는 것에 전혀 관심이 없다는 것이 네 말이 맞는 것 같아.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화) 15:11, 2014년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
- 크리스, 네 입장은 믿을 수 없을 정도로 혼란스러워.첫 번째 코멘트에서 비소싱 BLP를 만든 것에 대해 피그선더윙을 비난하고 나서, 그 코멘트에서 모든 것이 괜찮다고 말하는 것 같니?루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 내려달라고 말해) 2014년 2월 11일 16시 17분 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그리고 하지 말라고 부탁한 다른 사람을 꾸짖고 나서 내가 직접 했다.제공된 근거를 완전히 무시하는 한 모순은 정말 당혹스럽다.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화) 11:31, 2014년 2월 12일 (UTC)[
- 참조되지 않은 새로운 BLP를 만드는 것은 "psuedo-infraction"이 아니다.정책당 즉시 그리고 정당하게 PRODedded될 기사를 만드는 것은 백과사전을 개선하는 것이 아니다. - 부시 레인저One ping only 00:45, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 물론이지. 하지만 이 실에서 우리는 규칙이 없다는 것도 들었어한 번 (하하) 나는 Thumperward와 완벽하게 동의한다: 물론, 앤디는 더 잘해야 한다; 심지어 맨 URL에 붙여넣는 것조차도 이미 의미가 있다.동시에 내가 살펴본 것들은 검증하는 데 1초도 걸리지 않았기 때문에 파리에 있지 않더라도 논란의 여지가 있는 것도 아니고 뭐 그런 것도 아니다.좋은 늙은 블로펠드 박사는 이런 종류의 비판을 그에게 평준화하곤 했는데, 나는 그들이 그것을 마음에 새겼다고 생각한다.앤디도 그럴 수 있지만 (@Pigsonthewing:) 행정 조치를 취하는 것은 너무 지나치다, IMO. 앤디, 이 사람들 부탁 좀 들어주고 링크나 한두 개만 던져줘, 알았지?고마워요.드레이미스 (대화) 04:43, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 참조되지 않은 새로운 BLP를 만드는 것은 "psuedo-infraction"이 아니다.정책당 즉시 그리고 정당하게 PRODedded될 기사를 만드는 것은 백과사전을 개선하는 것이 아니다. - 부시 레인저One ping only 00:45, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 하지 말라고 부탁한 다른 사람을 꾸짖고 나서 내가 직접 했다.제공된 근거를 완전히 무시하는 한 모순은 정말 당혹스럽다.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화) 11:31, 2014년 2월 12일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 (이 경우 당황스러울 정도로) 순진한 구경꾼들이 추측할 수 있는 것보다 오히려 문제의 근원을 (우리의 전기를 개선)하는 데 더 신경을 쓴다고 의심한다.나는 그가 소규모의 사이비 유괴로 무작위 관리자들에게 속이는 것에 전혀 관심이 없다는 것이 네 말이 맞는 것 같아.크리스 커닝햄 (사용자:thumperward) (대화) 15:11, 2014년 2월 11일 (UTC)[
왜 이것은 날짜별 판매가 아직도 진행 중인가?여기 어제 앤디 크리에이티브가 있는데, 첫 번째 편집에 URL로 완성되었어.WP:BLP는 논란의 여지가 없는 보일러플레이트의 참조를 필요로 하지 않으며, WP:BLPROD는 편집자들에게 기사를 출처할 수 있는 7일을 주는데, 만약 당신이 명백한 출처를 찾는 대신에 당신이 약간 멍청하게 굴고 있다고 말한다.우리가 그 정책이 "창조 규칙에 관한 기사 출처"가 되기를 원한다면 앤디를 굴복시키는 것이 아니라 시민 경로를 통해 정책 제안을 한다.NE Ent 04:53, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 왜냐하면 앤디는 실패했고, 계속해서 실패했기 때문에, 심지어 문제가 있다는 것조차 인정하지 않았다.만약 그가 자이언트 스노우맨을 얼간이라고 부르지 않고 즉시 그렇게 했더라면, 애초에 여기서 끝나지는 않았을 것이다.위키백과의 홍보대사로 활동한다면, 참조되지 않은 BLP를 만드는 것에 대한 변명은 없다.전혀 아니다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말해) 2014년 2월 16일 12시 44분 (UTC)[ 하라
사실을 받아들이자.피그선더윙은 2014년 2월 6일 "향후 5일간 유럽의회에서 일할 것이며 편집 특권이 제한될 것"이라고 말했다.지금이 2014년 2월 17일인데, 그가 기사를 바꾸거나 개선한 적이 있는가?네, 몇 명만요, 하지만 네.그래서 나중에 개선될 기사를 만들고 싶다는 생각은 그렇게 멀리까지 사로잡히지 않을 것이다.해피 어택도그 (토크) 17:30, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 마감은 협력하는 것으로 권장:최근 편집된 자료에는 2014년 2월 14일 (dif-125 참조)의 출처가 추가되었으므로 나는 이 보고서를 "협조"로 종결하고 느린 대응을 "너무 바쁘거나" 2014년 유럽의회 의원 764명과 함께 하는 일에 압도되는 문제로 간주할 것이다.이전 페이지가 개선된 것처럼 사용자가 기여하는 것을 보고 사용자에게 연락하여 바쁜 사용자의 간과된 페이지를 업데이트하도록 하십시오. -Wikid77 (대화) 15:41, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 사용자별 협력으로 지원 마감:위키드77. - 호르가스 (대화) 18:33, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
차단하기 전에 관리자 삭제 후 참조되지 않은 것으로 인해 이 BLP를 Jimbo Wales에서 만든 것에 유의하십시오.사이트에 대한 아이디어를 낸 사람이 이제 와서 제안을 차단하는 슬픈 세상이다. --GRUBAN (토크) 19:22, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- @GRUBAN:첫째로, 나는 8년 전에 다른 편집자의 편집이 어떻게 이 논의와 관련이 있는지 모르겠다.두 번째로, 누가 차단을 부르고 있는가?주제 금지는 오래 전에 언급되었지만, 그것뿐입니다...자이언트 스노우맨 19:29, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
검토 요청 중
블록 승인, 금지 지원 안 됨.드레이미스 (대화) 03:03, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자에 대한 블록 검토 요청:니나 그린.이 편집기는 User에 의해 외설되었다."스팸플릿"을 위한 제호크만.제호크만의 토크 페이지에서 토론이 있다.나는 이 블록에 대한 정책적 근거나 어떤 경고가 주어졌던 곳을 보지 못한다.—Neotarf (대화) 03:12, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 스팸은 적절한 용어가 아니다.그러나 혼란은 차단해야 할 정책적 이유다.나 자신도 그 일을 변명의 여지가 없었을 것이다.그러나 사용자는 뒤로 물러나야 한다.그들은 토론에 너무 많이 투자되어 진행을 방해하고 있다.--v/r - TP 03:35, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 스팸(전자)의 의미로는 스팸이 아니다. 스팸(게밍)의 의미로는 스팸이다.Jehchman은 이런 것들이 많은 사용자들의 토크 페이지에서 반복되고 있는데, 이것은 파괴적이고 채팅 스팸에 상당히 가깝다고 말한다.블록 메시지에는 다음 때까지 계정이 차단됨이라는 메시지가 표시됨을 참고하십시오.잠시 쉬고, 다시 관점을 찾은 다음, 차단을 해제해달라는 요청을 하라. 분명히 제호크만은 이것이 지뢰를 넘을 수 없는 차단이 될 것이라고 가정하지 않았다. 그는 "상황이 호전될 때까지 차단을 당하고, 그러면 차단을 해제해달라"고 말하고 있다.스팸(전자)은 오프위키 사물에 대한 광고가 결코 적절하지 않기 때문에 페이지에서 되돌리거나 제거해야 하지만, 스팸(게밍)은 이렇게 했을 때 기본적으로 부적절한 선거운동의 일종이다.우리는 단지 유세 방식으로 남겨졌다고 해서 메시지를 삭제하지는 않는다.마지막으로, 내가 말하는 모든 것은 이 결정에서 조크만이 옳고 정당하다고 가정한다.조사하지 않은 나는 어느 쪽도 납득이 가지 않는다. 다만 제호크만의 말이 잘못 해석되거나 잘못 응용되지 않도록 하려는 것이다.Nyttend (대화) 05:21, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 니나 그린의 행동은 용납할 수 없으며 그들이 차단되었을 뿐만 아니라 이 ANI 사건이 공개되었다는 것을 볼 때까지 나는 그녀에게 직접 메시지를 남기려고 했다.그러나, 그 블록은 충동적이고 징벌적이다.사용자는 먼저 토론에 임해야 하며, 대응할 수 있는 기회를 제공했어야 한다.쿠드풍 กุผึ ( ((대화) 06:51, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 그 블록은 파괴적인 행위에 대해 정당화된다.니나그린(NinaGreen)의 기여도를 살펴보면 중재 과정에 대한 독특한 견해로 페이지마다 채워나가고 있는 것이 분명하고, 따라서 중재자들이 중단을 요청한 후 등 다른 사람들의 이러한 문제에 대한 논의를 방해하고 방해하고 있다.이것은 적절한 경고로서, 어떤 경우에도 일반 블록에는 필요하지 않다.나는 니나 그린이 그들이 더 이상 논의에 지장을 주지 않을 것이라는 것을 설득력 있게 확인하는 대로 제호크만이 그 블록을 해제할 것이라고 추측한다. 샌드스타인 08:04, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 샌드스타인의 연결고리에 감사하고, 추가 배경을 제공했다.아마도 그 블록은 결국 정당화될 것이다.쿠드풍 กุผผ ((대화) 09:34, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 솔직히 말하면 나는 이 같은 전화를 스스로 걸어야 할 시점에 있었다. (경고 후 지적이고 파괴적인 편집에 대한 설명 블록)솔직히 나는 ArbCom에 대한 개인적인 반감, 결정 또는 AE 조치를 재탕하기 위해 그 페이지(또는 이 페이지)를 사용하는 편집자들에게 심각한 문제가 있다.받아들일 수 없으며 단일 목적의 일회용 *** 계정[1]이 현재 해당 페이지를 방해하는 데 사용되고 있다는 사실은 니나의 사례에 조금도 도움이 되지 않는다--Cailil 10:17, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 같은 종류의 문제적 기여에 대해서도 이 검토에서 물러서라는 지시를 받은 네오타프가 오히려 이 검토서를 제기한 것이 걱정스럽다.어떤 경우든, 나는 이 블록이 근거가 충분하고 (아마도 연체되었을 것이라는) 위의 논평에 동의한다.AGK [•] 11:14, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 불행히도 잘 막았어.블록 이론에서 언급된 실제 사건은 니나 그린의 최근 혼란과 관련하여 최후의 지렛대일 뿐이다.사실, 나는 그녀가 그녀의 역사적 혼란의 정도를 향해 가고 있다는 징후를 본다. 그것은 핵이었고 오늘날까지 그녀 스스로는 결코 인정하지 않았다.그러한 징후 중 하나는 이 ANI 나사산이다.비쇼넨은 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC) 11시 39분에 통화한다.
- 공동체 금지를 해야 할 때인가?더그웰러 (대화) 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC) 13:19[
- 니나는 기사의 개발을 훌륭히 해냈으며, 나는 금지가 필요하지 않다고 생각한다.하지만 그녀가 사각지대를 가지고 있고 다음 번 발병이 더 빨리 처리될 수 있도록 무언가 필요한 부분이 분명히 있다.절차상의 약점은 경량적이고 유연한 주제 금지령을 내릴 방법이 없다는 것이지만, 그것이 필요한 것이다. 즉, 관리자들이 과도한 크기나 빈도나 반복적인 게시물을 경고하고 예방할 수 있는 미니 배설 제도다.그건 정리하기가 너무 어려우니 나중에 필요하다면 치료제를 남겨두는 게 좋을 것 같아.조누니크 (대화) 02:49, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 나는 현 시점에서 공동체 금지가 필요하다고 생각하지 않는다.니나는 무기한 차단되어 있고, 만약 그녀가 앞으로 나아가도록 건설적으로 편집하겠다고 관리자를 설득할 수 있다면, 그녀는 차단되지 않을 것이다; 그것은 완벽하게 좋은 상황이 아닌가?항상 가상의 무차단 행정관이 자신을 배경의 지배자로 만든다고 가정한다면, 조누니크가 먼저 자신의 사각지대라고 부르는 것, 그러나 나는 그렇게 추정할 것이다.또한, 사용자가 차단되어 참여할 수 없을 때 커뮤니티에서 토론을 금지하는 것은 그다지 매력적인 제안이 아니다.(참가 목적으로 차단을 해제하는 것은, 이제 그녀가 결말났으니 솔직히 매력적이지도 않고, 그것이 그녀에게 어떤 호의를 베풀어 주리라고는 생각하지 않는다.비쇼넨은 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC) 16:33으로 대화한다.
사용자:사용자가 00000을 보고함:PLNR(결과: )
이 스레드에서는 관리 작업이 수행되지 않는다.드레이미스 (대화) 03:07, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
페이지: 팔레스타인을 위한 유엔 분할 계획 (토크 내역 링크 감시 로그 편집)
보고 중인 사용자: 제로0000 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 요약
@Zero0000은 "합의에 반하는 편집"이라는 그럴듯한 핑계로 나의 편집[3]을 되돌렸다.
그 기사는 중재 사건의 일부분이다.이 편집의 내용은 토크 페이지(가장 최근)에서 광범위하게 "논의"되어 왔으며, WP에 다음과 같이 요청하였다.RS는 이 접선 관련 주제에 대한 구체적인 세부사항을 제공하는 것이 WP라는 주장을 뒷받침하기 위해 제공될 것이다.본 문서\하위 섹션의 맥락에서 마감됨.이를 지원하기 위한 WP:RS는 제공되지 않았으며, 단지 그것이 존재하며 WP를 통해 Synth:RS는 접선 관련 주제인 필 플랜(Pill Plan)과 관련이 있음을 보여 주며, 이는 명백하며, 어디에 적용되는지를 보여준다. (추가적으로, 체리 선택 세부사항의 소개는 WP:NPOV의 이슈를 소개)
정책 기반의 논점이 제공되지 않아 생산적인 논의가 이뤄지지 않았고, 그 내용을 뒷받침하는 편집자들은 이번 중재 사건의 범위 내에서 편집 이력이 매우 길기 때문에, 나는 DRN[4]에 무배제 감독을 요청했다.다시 WP 없음:RS는 참여하지 않는다.
사용자:Zero0000, 관련 편집자의 '합의'를 구실로 되돌리는 것은 오해의 소지가 있고(합의가 없다), 이를 해결하기 위한 오랜 시도의 과정을 무시한 채 POV 푸시업과 코트랙 장식에 불과해, 정책 기반 논쟁 I를 지지하거나 어떤 타협도 하지 않았다.이런 '조르킹 오프'(무뚝뚝해서 미안하지만, 같은 내용의 50K 이상) 과정은 정상적인 편집 과정에 전도성이 없고 편집 전쟁만 조장한다.
00000에 대한 경고나 정책 대 "합의" 문제가 해결되기를 바란다. --PLNR (대화) 09:21, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 00000에 의한 응답
이것은 이 게시판에 속하지 않는 내용 분쟁이다.하지만, 이제 여기 있으니 상황을 설명하겠다.
1937년 위원회는 팔레스타인의 분할을 제안했다.앞 글( 꽤 오랫동안)은 "아랍과 유대인 모두를 새로운 주들의 국경 밖에 있는 지역으로 이전할 수 있는 조항"이 있다고 말했다.이는 제안된 인구 이동이 거의 전적으로(99.4%) 한 방향으로 진행되었기 때문에 NPOV에 대한 심각한 위반이었다.그러나 PLNR은 이러한 왜곡을 시정하는 것을 일심동체 거부해 왔다.토론은 Talk:에서 시작한다.PLNR의 강박관념으로 팔레스타인을 위한 유엔 칸막이 계획#1937 필 위원회 이관 및 이후 섹션으로 계속 되돌아오고 있다.먼저 그는 1차 출처에 숫자가 없다고 주장(그것은 그렇다), 2차 출처가 없다고 주장(두 개가 제공되고 한 개가 기사에 추가됨), 그 다음 세부적인 내용이 (누가 상상할 수 있는가) 중요하지 않다고 주장했다.비록 몇몇 사람들이 인구 이동이 완전히 제거되어야 한다고 생각했지만, 아무도 그것을 엄청나게 오해의 소지가 있는 방식으로 제시하려는 PLNR의 욕구를 지지하지 않았음을 알 수 있다.나는 이런 종류의 고의적인 독자들의 오해를 살 시간이 없다.제로talk 10:01, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- PLNR의 응답.
이것은 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니라 정책과 POV 추진에 관한 것이다.0이 WP를 생성할 수 없는 경우:그러한 세부사항이 WP임을 보여주는 RS:유엔 계획의 맥락에서 기한이 도래함. (필리 플랜이 아님)
나는 이미 DRN 요약[5]에서 당면한 문제의 맥락과 공신력을 다뤘다.제로(Zero)가 연계한 것에 대해서는, 소스의 게임의 서막이나 시작이다.먼저 그는 "많은 작가들은 언급조차 하지 않는다"는 그의 말에서 그 세부사항들을 유엔 계획의 맥락에서 본 적이 없지만, 그들은 필 플랜 분석에서 다룬다) "균형"에 대한 나의 주장은 더해져야 한다는 것을 주요 출처로부터 "명백한" 문장으로 추가했다.전체 Pell 보고서의 맥락에서 정의되며, Pell 계획 세부사항으로 들어가는 동안, Pell 계획 세부사항으로 들어가는 동안, 직접적인 인용, 주요 출처, 선택된 조항, 적절한 권고사항 중 하나 및 적절한 맥락(POV 문제 도입)을 통해 암시되지 않는다.그것은 WP의 홀리그릴을 주장함으로써 무시되었다.RS.
나는 유엔 계획과 POV 이슈에 영향을 미치지 않는 지나친 세부사항 없이 모든 필 플랜 권고사항에 대한 보다 간결한 개요를 제공함으로써 [7]을 타협하려고 노력했다.그러나 구체적인 수치는 재도입되었는데, 이번에는 계획의 불균형이 언급되어야 한다고 주장했다(WP 요청:WP를 회피하기 위한 계획에 대한 결론을 제시하는 RS:SYN(SYN)은, 「토지와 인구의 "외환"을 실시해야 한다고 제안함 」의 "교환"은, 「대단히 동등한 교환」을 의미하므로, 설명되어야 한다고 주장(「이전」과 같은 동의어로 대체하자는 제안)하고, 「정확한」 계정을 선호했기 때문에(나는 WP:FELURT는 Pill Plan 세부사항 포함이 유엔 계획의 맥락이라는 것을 뒷받침할 수 있는 어떤 것도 요청하지 않았다. 그들은 WP에 의한 완전한 견적을 원하지 않았다.RS.
마지막으로, WP 부족으로 인해 제거하기 위해 이동한 후:SYN을 지원하는 RS, WP:RS는 아랍인들이 그 계획을 거절한 이유를 설명하기 위해 처음부터 생각해낸 결론을 제공했다.그러나, 단순히 간결한 버전 대신, 그들은 아랍 POV를 전체 세부사항으로 제시하는 전체 인용문 및 설명회(정확히 이전에 다른 단락에서 WP가 다음과 같은 내용이 포함)를 포함할 것을 주장했다.RS는 관점을 직접 인용문 안으로 밀어 넣기 위해 부당한 사건을 파헤쳤다.
나는 구성원에 도달하려고 노력했고, DRN을 시도했다. 그리고 나는 이 가식적이고 거만한 편집에 지쳤다.나는 여기서 간단한 정책 기반 이슈가 해결되었으면 좋겠다.그러한 세부사항을 포함하는 타당성은 WP 없이 Zero가 추가했다.RS는 UN Plan\background 섹션의 맥락에서 그들이 마감되었음을 보여줄 것이다.--PLNR (대화) 13:22, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 00000에 의한 응답
PLNR의 반응은 대단히 기만적이다.사실, 다시 말하지만 1937년에 아랍인의 대규모 강제 이양과 1,200명의 유대인의 소규모 이양이 함께 제안되었다는 것이다.전입이 균형 잡힌 것처럼 글을 쓴다는 것은 거짓말이다.이 "보고서"를 포함하여 PLNR이 여기에 소비하는 모든 에너지는 PLNR이 위키피디아가 거짓말을 하기를 원하기 때문이다.그가 주장하는 편집(위)을 보면 이것이 사실임을 알 수 있다: 경계 문제를 극복하기 위해 토지 및 인구 교류를 실시할 것을 제안한다.보시다시피 '교환'의 본질은 완전히 숨겨져 있다.
위에서도 그가 이 판자를 속이려 하는 것을 볼 수 있다.토크 페이지에는 "많은 작가들이 전입자의 극히 일부(0.55%)가 유대인이 될 것이라는 언급조차 하지 않고 그저 아랍인의 전입이라고 묘사한다"고 적었다.그는 "많은 작가들은 언급조차 하지 않는다"는 말을 인용, "교환"의 엄청난 불균형은 종종 언급되지 않는다고 여기 사람들을 속이기 위해 인용한다.분명히 PLNR은 진실을 말하는 것은 지나치다고 생각한다.
긴 기사(75K)에서 배경의 두 단락에 대해 이야기하고 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.단락은 가장 두드러진 이전의 파티션 제안(실행 가능성이 있는 유일한 제안)의 흥망성쇠에 관한 것이다.이 제안의 본질적 특징의 관련성은 눈에 보이지 않을 정도로 명백하며 PLNR은 사실상 아랍과 이스라엘의 분쟁에 관한 어떤 책이든 집어 들고 이 맥락에서 논의되는 것을 볼 수 있다.나는 토론 초반에 그런 책 두 권을 언급했다.
Dlv99는 PLNR이 거의 일주일 동안 그것에 대해 계속 보도한 후 토크 페이지에 "PLNR, 당신은 이 문제에 대해 소수인 것 같다"고 썼다.일반 편집자는 이동했을 것이지만 PLNR은 이동하지 않았다.그는 또한 DRN을 시도했지만 성공하지 못했다.지금 그는 야당에 대해 거짓 주장을 함으로써 그들을 제거하려고 애쓰고 있다.주제 금지령이 내려져 있다.01talk:46, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[ 하라
우연히, 누군가가 내가 이 주제에 대해 편집-전쟁을 벌였다고 비난하고 싶어할 경우: 1월 25일 첫 번째 편집 이후 나는 3번, 두 번만 기사를 편집하여 새로운 소스 콘텐츠를 추가했으며, PLNR의 복귀를 되돌리기 위해 단 한 번만 글을 편집했다.03talk:14, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
- PLNR의 응답.
내가 원하는 것(그리고 정책 요구)은 합의나 당신에게 맹목적으로 명백한 것에 대한 주장 대신 간단하다. 당신 WP:그러한 세부사항이 WP임을 보여주는 RS:유엔 계획과 관련된 것도 아니고, 필 계획이나 당신의 빌어먹을 갈등 때문도 아니다. (또한 나는 DRN을 시도해 보았는데, 어떻게 그것이 내 입장에서 사기인지 확신할 수 없다.그러나 주제 금지에 대해 말하자면, 나는 이 글과 모든 관련 위원회와 몇 가지 사건들을 연대순으로 편집하여, 내가 읽었을 때, 당신이 "거짓말"--PLNR (토크) 03:39, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[ 이라는 단일한 관점을 삽입하는 것을 고수하는 모든 측면을 다루었다.
- 00000에 의한 응답
내가 위에서 삭제한 조항에 관하여:필 위원회를 추종한다고 주장하며 '아랍 인구'를 '아랍 인구'를 '아랍 인구'와 '유대인 인구'로 바꿔 문제를 처음 도입한 사람이 PLNR이라는 사실을 방금 깨달았다.그러나 다른 글에도 그러한 말이 있지만, 같은 절에서 그것은 "교환"이 거의 모두 한 방향으로 이루어졌음을 명확히 한다.그래서 PLNR은 다른 기사가 말한 것을 정확하게 보도하지 않고 그 일부를 잘못 수입했을 뿐이다.나는 이것이 정직한 편집 오류라고 믿게 되어 기쁘지만 문제는 PLNR이 문제가 있다는 것을 인정하지 않고 문제를 바로잡기 위해 다른 기사의 두 번째 문장을 받아들이지 않음으로써 시작되었다.
신뢰할 수 있는 출처 상태가 기사 주제에 대한 배경으로서 일부 세부 사항이 관련이 있다고 명시적으로 명시해야 한다는 규칙은 없다.신뢰할 수 있는 출처는 세부사항을 주제에 대한 관련 배경으로 취급하는 것으로 충분하다.그러나 그것은 어쨌든 여기서 쟁점이 아니다.기사에서 필 플랜을 생략하거나 정확하게 제시한다.제3의 선택권은 없다.09talk:40, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
- 토론
- HTML에 대해 미안하게 생각해, 편집 워링 게시판에 글을 썼는데, WP:1RR 또는 WP:3RR로 좁게 정의되어 있다는 것을 알게 되었다.또한 나는 WP를 사용하지 않았다.AE는 거기서 어떤 조항을 인용해야 하는지 전혀 몰랐기 때문이다.--PLNR (대화) 13:22, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 하지만 네가 설명해 준 것에 감사해, 나는 이 게시판의 미리보기에는 거들먹거리는 편집이 있다고 생각해.우리는 이 중재 사건에 오랜 역사를 가진 몇몇 편집자들이 있기 때문에, 그들의 기여는 일반적으로 완전한 문장/견적/세부사항을 덤핑함으로써, 내가 접선 관련 주제를 통해 출처와 또는 위치에 과도한 비중을 두는 단일 관점을 촉진하는 데 초점이 맞춰져 있다.le)
- 나는 이것이 POV-pushing인지에 대한 질문을 여기서 다루어 줄 것을 요청한다.0으로 WP 제공:접선 관련 주제에서 나온 상세한 내용은 WP:본 문서\하위 섹션 또는 제거의 맥락에서 기한.그렇지 않으면 WP의 단계를 설정하십시오.코트랙은 지금까지 사건의 간결한 중립적 요약을 위해 노력해온 책임 있는 편집자들을 위와 같은 편집 관행으로 몰아낸다.배경 섹션의 크기에 재활용된 무의미한 디테일을 곱하면 개선될 수 있을지 의문이다. --PLNR (토크) 19:45, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 또한 나는 방금 당신이 관리자가 아니라는 것을 알게 되었고, 당신의 토크 페이지에서는 당신이 관여하지 않은 것처럼 보이지 않는다.--PLNR (토크) 07:54, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
- 사용자에 따라 제안하는 의견:AE 보고서가 PLNR에 대해 작성되어야 한다는 AGK.엄밀히 말하면 이것은 내용 논쟁이지만, 대화 페이지의 증거는 PLNR에 대한 강한 공감대를 보여주는데, PLNR은 대부분의 편집자가 옳다고 주장하는 고집불통이고, 그 결과는 그 합의에서 여러 편집자 중 한 사람을 훈계하려는 시도다.여기서 PLNR에 의해 제시된 논쟁은 정책적으로나 심지어 RS 측면에서도 타당하지 않다(나는 필 위원회의 제안과 40년대 내내 시오니즘의 심의와 1947년 칸막이 계획과 그 여파를 연결하는 여섯 개의 추가 출처를 제공할 수 있다).그러므로 그것은 행동상의 문제(WP:IDNTHEARTHER (WP:Consensus) 및 WP:성가신 일이 되어 불필요한 괴롭힘의 형태를 띠게 된 AGF(Zero is 'jerking off, 위와 같이)이다.니시다니(토크) 12:37, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
- 네 말이 맞아, 제로는 오랜 과정 끝에 낙타를 다시 부러뜨린 빨대였고, 그것은 DRN으로 절정에 이르렀다.건설적인 측면에서, 만약 당신이 "반 다스" 소스를 제공할 수 있다면, 내가 위에서 요청한 것(즉, 그러한 세부사항들이 WP라는 정책 기반 주장을 제공하라.마감 또는 제거).그러나 제발 짚신들의 논쟁의 재탕은 하지 마십시오. 필 플랜의 맥락에서 그 선택된 조항의 공신력은 알려져 있고 결코 의심받지 않았다(그 조항의 나머지 부분에서는 이 조항에 포함됨).따라서 Pel WP에 대한 채굴 금지:RS, 제발 그 세부사항들이 주목할 만하다는 것을 보여줘.UN 계획\백그라운드 섹션의 맥락에서 마감됨.몇 페이지에 걸쳐 위임통치 기간 동안의 UN 계획 배경을 간략하게 요약한 출처를 보여 주시오. 특히 다음 문장이 이미 "미흡한 인구 교환"으로 요약했을 때, 영향을 미치지 않는 경우, 그리고 전체적인 이 관점은 나인 모든 세부 사항보다 훨씬 더 자세히 다루어져 있다.모든 계획 요약을 작성한다.
- 논평 @PLNR: I-P 분쟁의 기사를 편집하는 모든 기고자는 포프퍼스(pov-pusers)이며 당신은 우리 모두와 충돌하고 있다고 판단한 것 같다.아마도 나는 예외일 수도 있지만 확실하지도 않다.당신은 정말로 진정하고 WP를 연습해야 한다.AGF. 내 관점에서의 주요 이슈는 당신이 이 주제에 대해 많이 읽지 않은 것 같다는 것이다.당신은 인터넷에서 찾을 수 있는 출처를 사용한다; 가장 자주 주요 출처를 사용하며, 그것은 당신이 실수나 부분적인 사실을 쓰거나 지지하게 만든다.이 두 가지 문제를 모두 개선한다면, 나는 당신이 그 주제에 대해 분명히 "중립적"이라는 느낌을 갖고 있기 때문에 흥미로운 기여자가 될 수 있다는 것이 내 마음인데, 그것은 종종 그렇지는 않다.명왕성2012 (토크) 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC) 22:00[
- PLNR은 혼자가 아니다.제로0000(그리고 명왕성2012[8])은 실제로 보기 싫었던 아트클 버전을 조직적으로 삭제하고 되돌리면서 위키피디아의 많은 정책을 위반하면서 기사 내용을 부당하게 삭제하고 편집 전쟁을 수없이 벌여왔다.나는 이것을 증명하기 위해 많은 다른 사례들을 쉽게 제공할 수 있지만, 그 대신에 훨씬 더 심각한 것을 지적하고 싶다.
- Zero0000은 이미 지난 3RR에 대한 경고를 받았고, 그의 토크 페이지 기록에서 발견된 전쟁 위반을 편집했다. 사용자 대화:Zero0000#교전 경고 편집 및 사용자 대화:제로0000#3데이르 야신 대학살에 대한 RR 경고.나는 그가 방금 내가 찾을 수 없었던 다른 유사한 경고들이 있을 것이라고 확신하지만, 이것은 분명히 Zero0000에 대해 소송을 제기하고, 그의 관리자 지위가 취소된 후, 적어도 일정 기간 동안 그를 차단할 것을 요구하기에 충분하다. 나는 그것이 아직 어떻게 되어 있는지 이해할 수 없다. -샬롬11111 (talk) 13:34, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 이건 농담이야.샬롬11111이 나에게서 발견할 수 있는 가장 좋은 것은 2006년의 우발적인 3RR 위반과 2009년 노칼100 양말의 완전히 익살스러운 "경고"이다.참고로 나 역시 2009년에 한 번 실수로 3RR을 위반했다.위키피디아에서 전쟁하기 가장 쉬운 부분에서 계속 편집한다는 점을 감안하면, 거의 5년 동안 위반이 전혀 없는 것이 유별나게 좋다.제로talk 15:45, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 제로0000은 겸손하다.그는 거의 12년 동안 기고자로 일해 왔다. 그리고 만약 당신이 이 전에 그에 대해 듣지 못했다면, 그것은 그가 문제가 되지 않고 용이한 기고가 될 수 있었기 때문이다.나쁘지 않은 기록이야. --llywratch (대화) 03:01, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 이건 농담이야.샬롬11111이 나에게서 발견할 수 있는 가장 좋은 것은 2006년의 우발적인 3RR 위반과 2009년 노칼100 양말의 완전히 익살스러운 "경고"이다.참고로 나 역시 2009년에 한 번 실수로 3RR을 위반했다.위키피디아에서 전쟁하기 가장 쉬운 부분에서 계속 편집한다는 점을 감안하면, 거의 5년 동안 위반이 전혀 없는 것이 유별나게 좋다.제로talk 15:45, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트 So 우리가 가진 것은 문제를 일으키는 사용자 사례인데, 그는 또한 이를 공개했고, 왜 그 문구가 받아들여지지 않는지 받아들이지 않았다.그것으로 일이 해결되었다.더욱이 그가 제로0000이 저자들이 언급한 것에 대해 쓴 글을 잘못 전달했다는 사실 또한 골치 아픈 일이다.그러나 나는 이것에 놀라지 않았다.며칠 전 토론에서 PLNR은 내가 "그의 주요 질문을 무시했다"고 말했다.그 같은 대답에서 그는 자신의 '주요 질문'으로 본 것을 동시에 대담하게 해 이 주장이 사실이라는 것을 다른 사람들에게 보이도록 했다.다음에는 모든 것을 공개하고 남들이 쓴 글에 솔직해지길 바란다. --IRISZOOM (대화) 16:41, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 코멘트 나는 모든 것의 정확성에 대해 약간의 불신이 있다. 사용자:PLNR은 Talk에서 다음과 같이 말한다.하위 구역_of_Medical_Palestine#Redundant.3F는 IRISZOOM이 잘못된 주장("허위 주장을 하기 전에 사실관계를 확인하라")을 지적한 것과 같이, "네와 투표한 다른 남자가 최근 그루터기 난동을 부린 것으로 알고 있다"고 말했다.그것들은 몇 년 전에 만들어졌다.")사용자:와 일부 불일치:IRISZOOM 및 사용자:제로0000도 마찬가지지만, 그들의 주장이 옳다는 것에 대해 나는 어떤 문제라도 가지고 있지 않다.안드록스 (대화) 02:48, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
양말(또는 고기) 인형극 및 COI 의제 모음
무기한으로 처리되는 문제.드레이미스 (토크) 01:47, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ 하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
- 크리에이티브 팩터 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 법인고양이 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
간단히 말하자면, 나는 투명하게 보이는 주요 COI 이슈를 미트푸펫이나 양말 그룹에서 보고 있다.나는 앞으로 나아가는 가장 좋은 단계를 결정하는 데 도움이 필요하다.
User:Creative factor는 JS Group에서 부정적인 내용을 삭제하는 오래된 의제를 추구하는 새로운 계정이다.(우리는 몇 년 동안 일련의 명백한 기업 직원이나 한 명의 집요한 직원과 거래를 해왔다.)그것이 실패했을 때, 그는 회사의 CEO에 대한 특정 섹션으로 초점을 좁혔다(토크: 참조).JS_Group#Deletion).이에 따라 합리적인 우려로 논란에 대한 내용이 CEO에 대한 새로운 기사로 옮겨졌다.즉시, 사용자:기업 고양이는 처음에는 삭제를 요청하고 나서 표적 절제를 통해 논란뿐만 아니라 피실험자의 여동생에 대한 언급도 제거하려고 노력하는 것처럼 보였다.그는 또 JS그룹 경쟁자(진심하게)와 관련된 기사 작업을 시작했으며, JS그룹 CEO에 대한 혐의(Creative factor가 JS그룹에서 반대했던 것과 같은 문제)에서 회사 자체 출판물에서 구두주걱으로 내용을 복사해 구두주걱에 붙이기 시작했다.오늘 크리에이티브 팩터는 컴퍼니 고양이가 희게 닦고 있는 기사 자한기르 싯디끄이를 찾아가 소송 관련 자료뿐만 아니라 싯디끄의 여동생에 대한 언급 등 같은 내용을 끌어냈다.크리에이티브 팩터(Creative factor)가 앞서 삭제된 후 오늘까지 작업하고 재탄생하고 있는 기사 Aqeel Karim Dedhi의 (현재 삭제된) 카피비오 이미지를 올리기도 했다.(역사는 이제 복원되었다.)그는 올린 크리에이티브 팩터를 사용했다.
편집 시기를 고려할 때, 이것은 양말풀이보다 고기 인형극일 수도 있지만, 나는 저작권 문제인 만큼 SPI를 평가하는 데 경험이 없다.SPI와 상관없이 COI는 거대하고 투명하다.한 회사의 뒤를 청소하고 경쟁사를 헐뜯는 탠덤 목표가 있는데, 그 목표는 "중립적이고 신뢰할 수 있는 출처 백과사전을 만드는 것"이 아니라, 아마도 그/그 고용주의 이익을 증진시키는 것이다. 아마도 내가 위에서 연결한 것으로 추정되는 행동에 대한 보복으로?(다시 연결)
방금 사용자를 차단한 경우:콘텐츠 블랭킹 지속을 위한 창조적인 요소, 그러나 나는 좀 더 실행 가능한 해결책에 도달해야 한다고 생각한다.나는 그것이 무엇일지 잘 모르겠다 - 아마도 새로운 계정(기업용 고양이)을 차단하고 JS 그룹과 경쟁사와 관련된 기사의 토픽 페이지로 그를 제한하는 창조적 요소를 금지할 것이다.우리가 무엇을 하든 새로운 계정이 이 의제를 계속하기 위해 차단될 것이라고 기대하는 것은 전적으로 타당하다. --Moonedgirl 15:10, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 문라이드걸의 말처럼, 이 일에 관련된 모든 계정들을 차단하는 것은 매우 기쁜 일이다. 그들이 비록 정책을 관리한다고 해도, 단지 빨리 차단할 수 있는 정책을 회피하기 위해 중립적이고 믿을 수 있는 백과사전을 만들려고 여기 있는 것은 아니다.이러한 기사에 대한 재량적 제재에 커뮤니티가 동의하는 것이 유용할 수 있으므로, 향후 사업을 방문하는 이용자에게 제재를 통지하고, 그러한 행위를 하는 경우 경고한 후 계속하면 차단할 수 있다.여기 오는 게 좀 더 쉬운데, 오늘 무슨 일이 있어도 계속 달려갈 것 같은 느낌이 들어.닉 (토크) 15:41, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 그것을 시작하라.:/ [9].첫 번째 노골적인 양말은 억지로 밀고 나가려고 한다.닉, 나도 네 말에 동의해. 계속 그럴 거야.재량권 제재가 최선책일 수 있다. --Moonedgirl 15:53, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- ARCOM은 이미 인도, 파키스탄, 아프가니스탄과 관련된 모든 기사에 대해 재량권 제재를 승인했으며, 이 역시 그 범위에 해당할 것으로 추측된다. -- SMSTalk 16:46, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 나는 완전히 확신할 수 없다. 왜냐하면 그것은 민족주의, 인종 차별주의, 종교적 선호가 여기에 강요되는 것이 아니기 때문이다.이것은 간단하고 단순한 기업 경쟁이다. :/ 그러나, 나는 이제 사용자:컴퍼니 캣은 내가 이 파일을 다시 업로드한 이후 그가 알아낸 몇 가지 파일을 사용자:크리에이티브 팩터는 JS그룹의 1차 경쟁상대가 '뉴스'의 출처를 가진 '셀프 메이킹'으로 찍은 사진 1장을 포함했다.내 생각으로는, 이건 양말 인형뽑기용 관의 못이야.또 다른 양말도 막혔다(사용자:폭력적인 고양이).나는 경쟁 회사인 AKD 그룹과 관련된 기사들을 무력화하고 반보호하려고 노력했다. 리디렉션 대상으로 가장 기본적인 스텁을 만들었다. --Moonedgirl(talk) 13:38, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
- ARCOM은 이미 인도, 파키스탄, 아프가니스탄과 관련된 모든 기사에 대해 재량권 제재를 승인했으며, 이 역시 그 범위에 해당할 것으로 추측된다. -- SMSTalk 16:46, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
단일용도계정
아타마의 말대로 아무런 조치도 필요하지 않다.드레이미스 (토크) 01:51, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
արենն ա ((토크 · 기여)는 단일 목적 계정이다.이 사용자가 편집해 온 기사는 하야즈엔뿐인데, 그는 토론 없이 끊임없이 변화를 일으키고 있다.그건 그렇고, 나 또한 사용자 이름이 강제 수용이 되지 않는 것이 걱정된다."Armen MAH"라고 써있어.마흐는 아르메니아어로 "죽음"을 의미하며 내가 아는 한 이 조직의 주요 구성원 중 한 명은 아르메니아인 Mkrtchyan이다.[10] 여기에 연고가 있을지도 모른다. -- --րևա 15 15 15 15talk:44, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- @예레반티시:주소를 알려줘서 고마워.편집자가 집행하는 것 같다.그는 4번 반전을 한 것 같다.정말 의심스럽다.OccultZone (Talk) 16:41, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- Yerevantsi, 아마도 당신은 그 사용자 이름을 좀 더 분명하게 가리키도록 할 수 있을 것이다. 그리고 위키피디아에 그것을 보고할 수 있을 것이다.관리자 주의를 기울일 사용자 이름.드레이미스 (대화) 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC) 17시 30분 (
- 사용자 이름은 나의 주요 관심사가 아니다.나는 단지 이 유저가 그 한 기사를 스크래핑한 것에 대해 분명히 등록되어 있기 때문에 연관성이 있을 수 있다고 생각한다. --երևանն 19 19 19 19:15, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
여보세요, 방금 아르메니아어 위키피디아에 계정을 등록했는데 주로 거기서 편집을 하고 있어서, 아르메니아어 기사 일부를 편집하는 것이 내 의도지만, 여기서 더 관여하지 않는 것 같아 미안하다.비록 MAH가 내 이니셜의 일부분이고 Hayazn의 멤버들과 닮은 점이 순전히 우연의 일치지만 내 사용자 이름이 부적절해 보인다면 바꿀 것이다.
기사에 대해서.하야즈엔은 정당을 자처하지만 그렇게 등록되지 않은 조직이다.Hayazn은 또한 논쟁의 여지가 많은 단체인데, 그들은 그들의 회원들이 LGBT 운동가들, 또는 다른 야당 단체의 회원들을 구타했기 때문에 계속해서 뉴스에 나오고 있다. 그리고 그것이 그들이 애초에 나의 관심을 끌었던 방법이다.
하야즈난드의 지도자 중 한 사람으로부터 연락을 받아온 예레반티시는 그를 대신해 편집을 해왔다(여기서 개인정보 보호규정에 대해 잘 모르겠는데, 동일한 사용자 이름으로 소셜네트워크 계정에 링크해도 되겠니?)그 물건의 소유권을 넘겨받았고, 내가 그 물건에 대해 어떤 변화도 하지 못하게 할 것이다.그는 기사에서 부정적인 정보를 삭제하고 타협을 거부한다.나는 기사 토론 페이지에서 토론하는 것에 매우 개방적이었고, 여러분 모두 그것을 읽고 그가 어떻게 토론을 방해하는지 보는 것을 환영한다.
여기 예레반치가 계속 되돌아가는 것과 비교해서 내가 추가한 정보가 있다.나는 이 기사의 아르메니아판과 그곳의 단골들에 같은 정보를 추가했다. --արմննն ահ ( ( ((토크) 21:08, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 이름 문제를 신속하게 해결하려면 WP:IU는 사용자 이름 정책이 공격적이거나 파괴적인 사용자 이름은 피해야 한다고 조언하는 부분이다.이러한 중단을 의도하지 않았더라도, 사용자 이름이 혼란을 야기할 수 있는 방식으로 잘못 해석될 수 있다면, 사용자 이름을 변경하는 것을 심각하게 고려해야 한다.이것은 여러분 자신을 위한 것이다; 만약 여러분의 사용자 이름이 여러분에 대해 부정적인 것을 암시한다면, 다른 편집자들의 의견을 여러분이 의도하지 않을 때 자동적으로 그들이 나쁜 의도를 가질 수 있는 방식으로 바꿀 수 있다는 것을 생각해보라.자발적으로 이름을 바꾸고 싶다면 WP를 방문하십시오.CHU/S와 요청한다. -- 아타마18:11, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
그래서 (하야즈 기사를 중립적으로 만들기 위한 목적이었던) 나의 추가가 제거된 지 6일이 지났고 나는 여기서 보고를 받았다.나는 토론 페이지에서 대화를 위한 몇 가지 제안과 시도를 했고 예레반치는 그것들을 완전히 무시했다.위키백과 관리자들은 나에게 무엇을 하라고 제안하는가? --Armen Mah (대화) 15:43, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 내 제안은 기사의 토크페이지에서 토론을 계속하자는 것이다.행정부를 필요로 하는 어떠한 조치도 없다. 이것은 콘텐츠 논쟁이고 우리는 이 문제를 해결하는 데 도움이 될 수 있는 분쟁 해결 방법을 가지고 있다.당신은 이미 제3자의 의견을 토크 페이지에 올려놓았으므로, 합리적인 시간처럼 보이는 것에 의견 일치를 볼 수 없다면 다른 편집자들로부터 더 많은 의견을 얻기 위해 논평 요청을 고려할 수도 있다.그러나 다시 말하지만, 이곳 ANI에서 해결할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다고 생각한다. -- 아타마ama 18:44, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 그게 내 요점이야, 토의는 없어.내가 추가한 것은 모두 제거되었고 나는 여기에 보고되었다.그는 그 기사의 현재 편향된 버전에 만족한다. 나는 그렇지 않다.내가 어떤 변화를 주다가 그가 다시 나를 보고하면 어떻게 될까?나는 지난 며칠 동안 규칙을 읽으며 보냈고 이 보고서가 나에게 불리하게 작용했다고 말할 수 있는 한, 나는 이 갈등이 더 이상 고조되는 것을 피하고 싶다. --Armen Mah (대화) 20:55, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
IP User_talk:94.10.214.103 및 User_talk:엘리사2000
BAN을 외칠 필요 없음: 계정이 이미 무기한 차단됨.드레이미스 (토크) 01:56, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
IP 주소 user_talk:94.10.214.103의 사용자와 user_talk:엘리사2000은 종교 기사에 대해 일관성 있는 비협조적인 편집을 해오고 있다.두 사람 모두 거듭 경고를 받았다.
특히 IP User_talk:94.10.214.103은 자신의 토크 페이지에 경고를 받은 후 가톨릭교회 기사에 기재된 출처를 세 번 업데이트하지 않고 회원번호를 변경했다.
- 2014년 2월 13일 카톨릭 교회에 대한 소싱되지 않은 편집: [11]
- 2014년 2월 2일 토크 페이지 경고: [[12]
- 2014년 2월 01일 가톨릭 교회 무소고 편집: [13]
- 2014년 2월 01일 가톨릭 교회 무소고 편집: [[14]
사용자는 자신의 토크 페이지에 기록되어 있는 종교에 관한 다른 페이지에서 몇 가지 다른 비협조적인 편집을 했다.
또한 user_talk:엘리사2000은 가톨릭 교회 페이지의 번호와 종교 페이지와 유사한 페이지 몇 장을 매우 비슷하게 편집했다.나는 그들이 연관되어 있는지 아닌지 모르겠다.
가톨릭교회 기사 편집에 대해서는 직접 알고 있을 뿐이다. --Zfish118 (토크) 20:16, 2014년 2월 13일 (UTC)[
- 나는 두 개의 대화 페이지에 경고 통지를 남겼고, IP 사용자의 이전 편집 내용을 다시 확인해야만 나중에 기고자가 볼 수 없는 콘텐츠에 대한 변경 사항을 수동으로 되돌릴 수 있었다.
- IP 사용자 94.10.214.103은 2014년 1월 9일 통계를 가지고 장난을 치기 시작했고, 엘리사2000은 2014년 2월 11일에 시작되어 종료되었다.둘 다 무작위로 페이지를 넘기는 것처럼 보이지만, 페이지에는 뚜렷한 중복이 있고 인도의 종교, 세르비아의 종교, 몬테네그로의 종교, 스페인의 종교, 불가리아의 종교, 세이셸의 종교에 대해 이루어진 현저하게 유사한 유형의 변화들이 있다.현재 IP 사용자는 HJ Mitchell에 의해 48시간 동안 차단되어 있는 반면, 사용자 Elisa2000은 '공헌'을 중지한 것으로 보인다(최소한 현재). --Iryna Harpy (대화) 02:56, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC)[
다른 블록이 필요했다.94.10.214.103의 48시간 블록이 해제된 이후 사용자가 활동을 재개했다는 점에 유의하십시오.IP와 등록 사용자가 여기에한사람일 가능성이 있는것으로 보고 반달리즘 게시판에 직접 게시해야 할지 확신이 서지않는다.--Iryna Harpy (토크) 23:58, 2014년 2월 14일 (UTC) EDITY Yup, 나는 닌컴퍼니였습니다.2, 3일 된 알림을 추적하면 그렇게 된다.죄송합니다. --Iryna Harpy (대화) 00:02, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 나도 몰라.나는 실제로 이 보고서를 제출하지 않았다.제피쉬118호가 양말인 줄 알았나?내가 이런 식으로 사건 보고를 선택했을 리는 없지만 결국 이렇게 보고되고 말았다.누구로부터도 아무런 피드백도 받지 못했기 때문에 누가 한쪽을 차단하고 다른 한쪽을 차단하기로 선택했는지, 아니면 양말로서 조사를 받고 있는지 알 수 없다. --Iryna Harpy (대화) 00:54, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 네, 감사합니다. --Epicgenius (대화) 00:59, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 꼭 양말 인형이라고 믿지는 않지만, 아마도 때로는 로그인하고 때로는 로그인하지 않는 경험이 없는 편집자일 것이다.두 계정은 같은 기사군에 대해 거의 동일한 파괴적 편집을 하고 있다. --Zfish118 (토크) 00:27, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- P.S.로서 - 왜 이것이 ANI 물질로 여겨졌는지 모르겠다(약간의 과잉반응).등록된 사용자와 IP 모두 종교 통계를 쉬운 대상으로 선택한 반달들을 짜증나게 하고 있다.그들이 같은 사람인지, 태그팀인지, 아니면 우연히 몇 페이지에 합쳐진 것인지, 둘 다 엿보지 못했다.단기 블록과 블록 이후의 활동을 주시하는 것으로 충분해 보인다.그들이 다시 말썽을 부리기 시작하면, 영구적으로 차단될 때까지 같은 과정을 거치면 된다(그럴 경우). --이리나 하피(토크) 03:27, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 이런 공공 기물 파손 행위를 신고할 수 있는 덜 치열한 곳이 있을까? --Zfish118 (대화) 23:43, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 네, 감사합니다. --Epicgenius (대화) 00:59, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 나도 몰라.나는 실제로 이 보고서를 제출하지 않았다.제피쉬118호가 양말인 줄 알았나?내가 이런 식으로 사건 보고를 선택했을 리는 없지만 결국 이렇게 보고되고 말았다.누구로부터도 아무런 피드백도 받지 못했기 때문에 누가 한쪽을 차단하고 다른 한쪽을 차단하기로 선택했는지, 아니면 양말로서 조사를 받고 있는지 알 수 없다. --Iryna Harpy (대화) 00:54, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 첫 번째 논평인 Zfish118에 대한 답변으로, 나는 그들을 WP로 데려갈 것을 선택했을 것이다.AIV. 말하자면, 그들은 낡은 수법으로 돌아왔고 이곳의 관리자들 중 누구도 3일 전에 제기된 불만을 따라가지 못한 것 같다.
- 고마워! 나는 WP에 링크를 추가하기 위해 반달리즘 정책 페이지를 편집했다.AIV, 행정관에게 지속적인 반달리즘을 보고하라 했을 뿐 어디에선가... --Zfish118 (대화) 00:50, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 제발, Zfish118과 나는 둘 다 AGF의 가장 기본적인 기준을 충족하지 못한 편집 내용을 추적하고 되돌리고 그들의 대화 페이지에 경고 메시지를 남긴 후 불필요한 시간을 보내고 있어, 누군가 그들을 차단할 수 있을까?이것을 AIV에 가져갈 것인가, 아니면 여기서 누군가가 우리에게 응답할 것인가? --Iryna Harpy (대화) 03:56, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
만약 그들이 멈추고 사과하지 않는다면, 나는 그들이 파괴적인 행동을 하는 것에 대해 금지(시간 제한 협상 가능)를 제안하고 그들의 파괴적인 편집은 용납되지 않을 것임을 그들에게 가르쳐야 할 때라고 생각한다.그들은 그들의 행동을 변화시키기 위해 많은 경고와 빈민가를 받았다.여러분 모두 이 문제를 평화적으로 해결하려고 노력하고 있지만(어느 쪽이 좋은가) 지금은 그들의 파괴적인 편집을 차단하기 위해 어떤 종류의 조치를 취해야 할 지경에 이르렀다고 생각한다.해피 어택도그 (토크) 17:20, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
이 Mikemikev IP에 대해 할 수 있는 일이 있나?
끝났다고 치자.드레이미스 (토크) 02:01, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
123.214.175.236(토크 · 기여)과 118.219.86.100(토크 · 기여)은 명백한 미케미케프 양말이지만, IP 주소가 너무 달라서 레인지 블록이 부적절하다고 추측하고 있는가?나는 토크를 할 수 있지만 그것은 부끄러운 것 같다.나는 방금 한 페이지에는 친유대주의자로, 또 다른 페이지에는 아랍 우월주의자로 공격받았으니, 내가 뭔가 제대로 하고 있는 게 틀림없어.더그웰러 (대화) 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC) 12시 30분 (
- 그래, 내가 보기엔 (한국의 주요 ISP의 경우 /16 둘 다) 세미 프로텍션은 우리가 편집 필터에 사용할 수 있는 일반적인 추세를 볼 수 없기 때문에 유일한 옵션으로 보인다.Callanec (대화 • 기여 • 로그) 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC) 14:00[
74.89.85.38
IP는 멈췄고, 어느 쪽이든 ANI의 문제는 아니었을 겁니다 아마 AIV의 문제였을 겁니다드레이미스 (토크) 02:04, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
74.89.85.38은 니켈로디언 기사에 공급되지 않은 프로그램 목록을 계속 추가하고 있다.웹사이트를 봤는데 거기에도 없는 게 많더라.위키피디아는 텔레비전 가이드가 아니다.나는 그에게 그것에 대해 경고했지만, 그들은 계속 그것을 하고 있다.이 사용자를 차단하십시오.미세알트 (대화) 14:02, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- IP가 지난 며칠 동안 아무런 활동을 보이지 않았으니, 아마 중단했을 것이다.만약 그들의 이전 편집 패턴이 일관된다면, 그들은 아마도 한 달 혹은 그 이상 사라질 것이다.만약 당신이 그들의 행동이 다시 시작되는 것을 알아차린다면, 블록이 보증될 수 있다. 비록 이 편집자는 보통 하루 동안 편집하고 다시 시작하기 전에 적어도 한 달 동안 "하이버네이트"를 편집하기 때문에, 그들은 보통 클리어와 함께 IP에 전달되는 짧은 블록을 알아차리지 못할 수도 있다.n 블록 로그.한편, 이 IP는 2012년 11월 이후 편집한 콘텐츠의 종류(그리고 그 이전에는 편집한 적이 없음)에 대해 일관된 초점을 보여왔기 때문에, 수년 동안 같은 편집자가 사용해온 정적 IP일 가능성이 높다.이 IP에 대한 긴 블록은 최소한의 부수적 피해를 가질 수 있다.그러나 블록은 징벌적인 것이 아니라 예방적인 것으로 되어 있고, 편집자가 일단 정지했기 때문에 현재로서는 블록이 적절하지 않을 것이다. -- 아타마 16:47, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
이전 사용자 페이지 삭제
과거의 봉사에 감사하는 옛 친구들의 짧은 만남, 사방에서 애틋한 추억이 담긴 만남.누가 ANI가 그렇게 끔찍한 곳이라고 했니?드레이미스 (토크) 02:10, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
I was User:Sam Korn. 그러나 계정이나 관련 이메일 주소의 암호를 기억할 수 없다.몇 년 전에 이전 사용자 페이지를 삭제했는데, 이전 사용자 공간에 있는 다른 페이지들은 모두 삭제했으면 좋겠어.인터넷 검색에 나오니까 꼭 없애버리고 싶어.어떤 친절한 영혼이 나를 위해 그것들을 지울 수 있을까?대단히 고맙습니다이후 샘 (451) (대화) 15:52, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 안녕, 샘 오랜만이야.옛날 중재위원회 페이지에서 2006년 당신의 이메일 주소를 찾아내어 그쪽으로 연락하려 했지만, 알고 보니 장애인인 것으로 판명되었다. :-(당신이 당신이라는 어떤 확인도 없이 그 페이지들을 삭제해서는 안 될 것 같다.좋은 생각 있어?너와 나 둘 다 기억할 만한 걸 말해줄래? IRC에서?비쇼넨탈크 20:48, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)
- Hi Bishonen: 정말 긴 시간이다.답장해줘서 고마워.내가 생각할 수 있는 가장 좋은 것은 이전 메일링 리스트 주소에 접근할 수 있다는 것이다. 내 메일링 리스트 주소는 여전히 공공 아카이브에서 사용 가능한 많은 이메일을 보냈다.그 주소를 이메일로 보내주면 답장할 수 있어.A 후기 샘 (451) (대화) 21:58, 2014년 2월 15일 (UTC)[
- 제안:나는 B나 친구들이 당신이 요청한 페이지를 빠른 순서로 삭제할 것이라고 확신하지만, 나는 당신이 위키피디아를 통한 인터넷 검색에서 더 완전한 제외를 받는다고 생각한다.예의_바니싱.NE Ent 14:35, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 해당 페이지가 삭제되면 해당 URL을 구글 웹마스터 툴스에 제출해 구글의 캐시된 복사본도 제거할 수 있다.— Scott • 16:58, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 사용자 공간 페이지(및 해당 대화 페이지)가 삭제되었다.사용자 대화 페이지 기록 보관소에는 대화 페이지 기록과 그에 대한 정책이 찌푸려져 있기 때문에 나는 삭제하지 않았다.하지만 나는 그것들을 비웠고, 당신의 토크 페이지를 보호했다.그 밖에 다른 것이 있으면 나에게 알려줘.샘, 넌 내 시간 전이었잖아. 하지만 난 가끔 네 이름을 마주치곤 해. 네가 많이 도와줬던 시절로 돌아간 것 같아.고마워. --Floquenbeam (대화) 18:38, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
위키백과.Georgemoney.net?
결과는 달성된 것으로 보인다.드레이미스 (토크) 02:11, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
도와줘! 내가 어떤 것을 검색하려고 할 때마다, 이것은 내 주소창에 나타나는 주소야.다행히도, 나의 부모님의 통제가 이것을 막았지만, 그것은 성가신 일이 된다.티투스폭스 08:52, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
호킹
아타마의 아버지 같은 말(혹은 어머니 같은)은 여기서 충분할 것이다. 즉, 행정적인 조치를 취하지 않을 것이다.드레이미스 (토크) 02:22, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, 나는 패트롤러에게 희생당하고 괴롭힘을 당하는 신참이야.나는 지난 며칠 동안 다소 고통스러웠고 내가 잠을 잘 수 있도록 약을 처방받았다.제발 누가 나를 위해 이 문제를 조사해 주길 바란다.패트롤러의 이름은 Siteku이다.말하려는 시도는 모두 나의 미숙함을 비웃는 것으로 끝난다.문제가 된 기사는 세실 제이 로버츠다.고마워 Cowhen1966 (대화) 17:09, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC) 만약 내가 틀리지 않았다면 그는 내 글을 삭제하기 위해 올려놓기까지 했다.도와주세요!코웬1966 (토크) 17:11, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
아마도 신타쿠의 동기는 내가 그것에 대해 이의를 제기하지 않는 것을 돕기 위한 것이었을 것이다.아마도 신타쿠는 그것이 좋든 싫든 새로운 기사에 표준 상자를 붙이기보다는 새로운 기사에 적절한 상자를 붙일 필요가 있을 것이다.그 기사는 어조, 문법 등에 문제가 없다. 그것은 출처를 가지고 있고, 서류가 부족하지 않으며, 통용성에 문제가 없다.나는 그의 일이 새로운 기사를 순찰하는 것이라는 것을 이해하지만, 그는 또한 잘못된 템플릿 Cowhen1966 (토크) 10:58, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[ ]으로 태그하기 전에 기사를 읽는 시간을 가져야 한다
- PS: 그 "기사"를 AFC 홀딩펜에서 기사공간으로 옮기지 말았어야 했어.DP 17:29, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC) 살아서는 안 된다[ 하라
- 신카투와 관련하여 DangerousPanda와 동의하십시오.네가 그 경험을 스트레스 받게 해서 미안해.위키피디아는 신참자들에게 자주 가혹해 보이는 질 좋은 기사들을 보장하기 위해 수년간 정책을 발전시켜왔고, 싱카투는 그저 그런 것들을 당신에게 설명하려고 노력해왔다.위키피디아를 편집하는 것은 여러분이 즐길 수 있는 취미가 아닐지도 모른다; 만약 그것이 여러분의 건강에 영향을 끼친다면, 그것은 분명히 가치가 없다.NE Ent 17:38, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 너의 기여에 감사하지만, 미안하지만, 너는 나를 위해 그런 결정을 내릴 수 없어.나는 여전히 윌리피디아에 대해 나에게 보여주려는 훌륭한 편집자들이 있다고 믿는다!나는 아직 시스템에 대한 믿음이 있고 이것에 대해 성숙할 준비가 되어 있고 올바른 절차를 선의로 사용할 준비가 되어 있다.나는 배우러 왔지만 괴롭힘을 당하지 않기 위해 여기에 있다.고마워요.
- 코웬1966, 이탈리아 순양함 산 마르코라는 글에 "검토"와 같다고 태그를 붙인 이유를 설명하시오.애초에 그 기사에 무슨 일이 생기게 되었는가? -- 핀레이 맥왈터토크 17:35, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 솔직히 말해서, 내가 새로 부여받고 알게 된 힘이 어떤 이유에서든 내가 편견을 가진 기사들에 박스를 찰싹 때릴 수 있는 것은, 나는 보복해서 그들 자신의 약을 졸라 주겠다는 생각이었다.만약 내가 충분히 열심히 본다면 그들의 글에서 분명히 잘못된 것을 발견하게 될 것이다. 그리고 나는 그것을 재빨리 끊었다. 왜냐하면 이것은 누가 승리하느냐가 아니라 누가 프로가 되려고 노력하는 것이기 때문이다.그러므로 나는 교전하기를 거부한다.만약 내가 위키피디아의 지침에 맞지 않는다고 느끼는 것을 발견한다면, 나 역시 선의로 그렇게 할 권리를 행사할 것이다!나는 이것이 너의 질의를 명확하게 해주길 바란다.Cowhen1966 (대화) 2014년 2월 19:18, 16 (UTC)Cowen1966 (대화) 19:32, 2014년 2월 16 (UTC)[
- Cowhen1966, 당신이 여기서 한 일을 위키백과의 교란이라고 해서 요점을 말하고자 한다.이런 행동을 하면 편집이 차단될 수 있다.이번엔 누가 널 막을지 의심스럽구나 넌 이게 용납할 수 없는 행동이라는 걸 이해한다고 했잖아하지만 네가 더 조심하지 않는다면 여기서 살얼음판을 찾을 수 있다는 것을 이해해줘.다른 편집자들이 당신의 출처가 문제라고 말할 때, 그들의 말을 들어라!여기 있는 대부분의 사람들은 위키피디아를 꽤 잘 이해하고 있으며 당신을 도우려고 노력하고 있다.당신이 비협조적이기보다는 그들의 도움을 받아줄 편집자 타입인지 확인하라.2014년 2월 16일 금요일(토크) 20:00 ]
- 솔직히 말해서, 내가 새로 부여받고 알게 된 힘이 어떤 이유에서든 내가 편견을 가진 기사들에 박스를 찰싹 때릴 수 있는 것은, 나는 보복해서 그들 자신의 약을 졸라 주겠다는 생각이었다.만약 내가 충분히 열심히 본다면 그들의 글에서 분명히 잘못된 것을 발견하게 될 것이다. 그리고 나는 그것을 재빨리 끊었다. 왜냐하면 이것은 누가 승리하느냐가 아니라 누가 프로가 되려고 노력하는 것이기 때문이다.그러므로 나는 교전하기를 거부한다.만약 내가 위키피디아의 지침에 맞지 않는다고 느끼는 것을 발견한다면, 나 역시 선의로 그렇게 할 권리를 행사할 것이다!나는 이것이 너의 질의를 명확하게 해주길 바란다.Cowhen1966 (대화) 2014년 2월 19:18, 16 (UTC)Cowen1966 (대화) 19:32, 2014년 2월 16 (UTC)[
네가 알 수 있듯이, 나는 요점을 설명하기 위해 위키피디아를 방해한 것이 아니야.나는 편집 전쟁에 빨려들어가고 있었다. 그래서 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 알았을 때, 나는 재빨리 그런 종류의 행동에 참여하지 않기로 결정했다.내가 여기 갓 들어온 경험으로 나는 애초에 왜 편집 전쟁이 시작되는지 이해할 수 있다.그래서 안돼! 나는 위키피디아를 방해하지 않고 논점을 만들었다. 나는 다른 사람들이 하는 것처럼 그들 자신의 작품을 살펴보도록 유도되었고 진정으로 그 어조에서 문제를 발견했다.그들이 상황을 설명하지 않고 상자를 치운 것은 내가 요청한 대로 기사를 수정하고 나서도 내가 단일 편집자로 만든 기사에 있는 박스 치우는 것은 가능하지만 거절했기 때문에 우스운 일이다.다시 한번 금요일, 위키피디아가 다른 목적으로 일차, 이차, 삼차 소스를 모두 받아들이기 전에 말했듯이.위키피디아가 허용하지 않는 것은 위키피디아에 명예훼손처럼 보일 수 있는 것을 지지하는 비협조적 또는 불충분한 참고자료들이다.나는 결코 용납할 수 없는 행동으로 행동했다고 말한 적이 없다.내가 한 말은 편집 전쟁을 재빨리 피했다는 것이었다.하지만 나는 항상 전문적으로 행동했다.나는 부족한 자료의 근거 없는 주장, 어조와 문법의 문제, 그리고 사람들의 작품을 보도록 자극했을지도 모르는 문제들에 약간 좌절했다는 것을 인정하지만, 나는 항상 전문적으로 행동했다.내가 본 기사는 위키백과 기사라기보다는 광고에 가까웠다.이제 왜 편집 전쟁이 시작되고 왜 내가 편집 전쟁에 참여하기를 거부하는지 알 수 있겠니?코웬1966 (토크) 10:25, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
아니, 전혀!거의 거르지 않는 포럼 두 군데에 연락했었지?그리고 내가 그렇게 한 유일한 이유는 그들 중 한 명이 내 불평을 받지 않았거나 내가 그것을 제대로 전달하지 않았을 때를 대비해서 지원을 원했기 때문이다.기억해!나는 여전히 이 넓은 사이트를 둘러보려고 노력하고 있고 그 과정에서 실수를 할 수밖에 없다.나는 네가 전에 그곳에 가본 적이 있다고 확신한다.코웬1966 (토크) 10:46, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- Cowhen1996 당신이 이 위키백과의 분쟁과 관련된 중재 요청을 열었구나.중재 요청/편집자가 나와 상당히 관련된 DRN 스레드 위키피디아:분쟁 해결 게시판#내 토크 페이지와 한 특정 편집자의 페이지.나는 당신이 WP를 읽기를 추천한다:포럼쇼핑.닐 아인(토크) 18:38, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 문제의 기사는 믿을 만한 출처에 심각한 문제가 있다.대화 참조:Cecil_Jay_Roberts#Reliable_source_needJoeSperraza (대화) 20:22, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과 참조:신뢰할 수 있는_source/Noticeboard#Ceil_Jay_Roberts JoeSperrazza (대화) 22:22, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 문제의 기사는 믿을 만한 출처에 심각한 문제가 있다.대화 참조:Cecil_Jay_Roberts#Reliable_source_needJoeSperraza (대화) 20:22, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 만약 당신이 당신의 의견을 임의의 장소에 삽입하지 않는다면 도움이 될 것이다.위의 나의 코멘트는 금요일 코멘트에 대한 대답이었다.네, 위키피디아 주변에서 누군가를 따라다니며 그들이 잘못했다고 생각하는 것을 찾아 복수를 할 수 있도록 하는 것은 명백한 호킹의 예입니다.당신의 포럼 쇼핑도 위키호킹으로 해석될 수 있지만 내가 언급하는 것은 아니다.닐 아인(토크) 19:26, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 참고: DRN의 행위 분쟁을 다루지 않기 때문에 DRN 사례를 종결했다.고마워요.MrScorch6200 (talk ctrb) 01:07, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
괜찮아!이것은 내가 백업 사이트에 연락하지 않고 방금 DRN에 연락했더라면 내 불평이 들리지 않았을 것이라는 것을 증명한다.코웬1966 (토크) 11:03, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC) 신타쿠의 토크 페이지, 코웬1966의 코웬1966에 대한 댓글을 읽어보면, 이런 편집자들에 대한 당신의 적개심을 설명하는 "라이브 채팅" (IRC 채널이라고 가정해?)에서 부정적인 경험을 한 것처럼 들린다.위키피디아에 관한 모든 기사는 비판의 대상이 되지만 새로운 기사들은 특별한 조사를 받는다.WP에서 더 많은 도움을 받을 수 있다.TABE WP 가이드라인 및 표준에 대한 구체적인 질문이 있는 경우.리즈 01:23, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC) 그 리즈에게 감사한다.적개심은 내가 여기서 어떤 일이 일어났는지를 묘사하기 위해 사용하는 단어가 아니다. 그것은 그 기사가 명예훼손적인 주장을 하지 않고 정당하게 출처된 것이 아주 명백할 때 왜 사람들이 그들이 하는 결론을 내리는지를 이해하려고 노력하는 것이다.거의 알아볼 수 없을 정도로 기사에 여러 번 편집이 이뤄지고 있는 상황에서 편집자 한 명이 답답하다.편집된 내용이 명예훼손이라면 괜찮지만 그렇지 않다.그 참고문헌은 ISBN 번호를 가지고 있지 않고 출처가 외국이기 때문에 그 기사를 삭제하기 위한 충분한 근거가 되지 않기 때문에 특별 조사를 방해하는 것은 환영할 일이다.코웬1966 (토크) 11:13, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
안녕 얘들아, 나는 보도 편집자 토크 페이지에 신타쿠가 자신의 기사를 유지 보수 템플릿으로 태그한 이유와 그것이 어떻게 괴롭힘으로 간주되지 않는지 설명하는 글을 남겼다.모든 것을 살펴보니 IRC 채널에서 무슨 일이 일어나지 않는 한, 절대로 괴롭힘은 없었다.나는 너희들이 그 메시지를 읽기를 권한다.건배, MrScorch6200 (talk ctrb) 01:32, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
당신은 Scorch씨가 그 기사가 문법, 어조 또는 명예훼손의 주장으로 고통받지 않는다는 것을 발견할 수 있을 것이다.나는 네가 그 기사를 다시 볼 것을 맹세한다.코웬1966 (토크) 11:17, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- Cowhen1966, 당신의 견해에 공감하지만, 여기서 어떤 식으로든 당신을 지목하지 않고 있다는 사실에 대해 안심시켜 주겠다.나는 7년 이상 위키백과 편집자로 일해 왔으며, 나는 관리자(어떤 시점에서 사람들이 내가 위험한 도구를 얻을 수 있을 만큼 충분히 신뢰할 수 있다고 생각했다는 뜻)이며, 나는 이 프로젝트를 수천 번 편집했다.그리고 심지어 나조차도 기사를 만드는 것에 위축되어 있는데, 그것은 바로 잡는 것이 매우 어렵기 때문이다.위키피디아는 그것이 어떻게 쓰여지는지뿐만 아니라 심지어 그 주제가 포함될 만한지에 관해서도 그것이 가지고 있는 기사들의 기준을 유지하려고 노력한다.그리고 그러한 기준에 맞춰 사는 것은 특히 이곳에서의 경험이 많지 않은 사람에게 어려울 수 있다.그러니 제발 어떤 식으로든 괴롭힘을 당하고 있다고 느끼지 말고, 여기서 기사를 만드는 것이 출판용 서면을 제출하는 것과 비슷하다고 생각해라.다른 사람들은 그것을 비판하고 편집하려고 할 것이고, 그들은 당신을 공정하게 대하려고 할 것이지만, 부정적인 피드백이 반드시 없는 것은 아닐 것이다.그 문제에 있어서, 우리가 충분히 단순하게 들리는 "좋은 기사"라고 부르는 것을 성취하는 것은 실제로는 건너기 매우 어려운 장애물이며, 많은 업무와 전문지식을 필요로 한다(그리고 아마 나 자신도 포함, 대부분의 사람들의 능력 밖일 것이다).그러니 기죽지 말고 어떤 비판이라도 기사를 개선하는 방법으로 삼도록 하라. -- 아타마19:13, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
사용자:DJSkippyB가 토론에 참여하지 않음
일주일 동안 차단됨; 그들의 편집 이력을 감안할 때, 이 정도면 충분할 것이다.미니애폴리스 23:45, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
DJSkippyB(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 WP를 계속 편집했다.위키프로젝트 국립농구협회 관련 기사들은 위키백과에서 문서화된 것뿐만 아니라 프로젝트의 전기에서 사용되는 규약을 따르지 않는다.Wiki Project_National_Basketball_Association/Guideline#인포박스_하이라이트.사용자 토크 페이지는 2013년 12월 24일부터 편집자들이 DJSkippyB로부터 아무런 반응을 얻지 못한 채 발표하기 위해 시작한 수많은 토론이 있다.또한, 수많은 경고에도 불구하고, DJSkippyB의 모든 편집 내용은 "소수"로 잘못 표기되었다[16][17][18]사용자에게 토크 페이지 공지를 보고 있다는 사실을 인정해 달라고까지 했지만, 들은 바가 없다.이전에 사용자가 편집 전쟁으로 인해 차단된 적이 있는데, 그때도 사용자로부터 어떠한 대화 페이지 상호 작용도 찾지 못했어.DJSkippyB가 어떤 이유로든 자신의 토크 페이지 요청을 알지 못하는 것일 수 있다.나는 이런 드문 상황에서 사용자가 자신의 토크 페이지가 정상으로 보인다는 것을 인정할 때까지 편집이 차단되는 것을 보았다.WP로서:관련 관리자, WP처럼 어떤 응답이 수신될 때까지 무기한 차단 요청:AGF는 정말로 통보 문제가 있다면 순서대로다.이 문제를 해결하기 위한 다른 제안들도 환영한다.—바굼바 (대화) 21:45, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 1주일 동안 중단 편집(주요 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 계속 표시) 및 TP 문제 해결 안 함그들의 관심을 끌길 바란다.미니애폴리스 00:01, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
계산기
다 했어, 하지만 앞으로는 S.I. 거리 측정으로는 메가파섹스, 제국 측정으로는 패텀즈만 사용해줘.고마워요.— WilyD (대화 • 기여) 10:29, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)에 의해 추가된 이전의 서명되지 않은 논평
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
위키백과 홈페이지는 관리자만 편집할 수 있다.레데 뉴스는 레나우드 라빌레니가 장대높이뛰기에서 세운 세계 신기록(20.21ft)을 언급하며 "6.16m(20.21ft)의 기록"이라고 적혀 있다.20' 2인치" 위키프로젝트 애슬레틱스는 훨씬 더 적절하고 이해할 수 있는 결과를 얻을 수 있는 더 좋은 계산기를 가지고 있다.나는 관리자에게 그것을 고쳐달라고 요청하고 있다.Trackinfo (대화) 06:42, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 여러분은 항상 미터법, 운동 경기의 국제 표준인 미터법을 배울 수 있다.HiLo48 (대화) 06:54, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 그건 정말 도움이 안 되고 비합법적인 답변이야. - 부시 레인저One ping only 07:14, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 기록은 6.16m이다.그것이 국제적인 운동선수들이 이런 것들을 하는 방법이고, 수십 년 동안 가지고 있다.20.21피트, 20' 2인치"가 아니다.이것은 질 좋은 백과사전이며, 국제 사회의 현실을 반영해야 한다.나는 운동에 진지한 관심을 가진 미국인들조차도 미터법 측정치에 대해 어느 정도 알고 있을 것이라고 의심한다.그렇지 않은 사람들에게, 전환이 정말 필요한가?HiLo48 (대화) 07:44, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- @HiLo48, 당신은 알라바마에 와서 지역 NRA 지부에게 어떤 외국인이 어떻게 측정 방법을 모든 미국인에게 말할 것인지 말해주는 것을 환영한다.현실은 미국이 영어권 세계 중 상당 부분을 차지하고 있으며, 위키백과.en이 서비스하고 있어야 하는 것이다.평균적인 미국인들은 수 십 년 동안 미터법을 변환시키려 노력했음에도 불구하고 미터법이 무엇을 의미하는지 전혀 알지 못한다.그래서 여러분은 거만하게 앉아서 3억 명의 사람들이 다시, 혹은 우리가 그들이 이해하는 언어로 그들에게 말할 수 있도록 요구할 수 있고, 그것이 위키피디아가 다른 모든 언어 서비스를 제공하는 이유 입니다.Trackinfo (토크) 08:04, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- "국제사회의 현실"은, 언급했듯이, 영어를 사용하는 인구의 많은 부분(따라서 영어 위키피디아의 시청자들)이 미터기가 아니라 발과 인치에 관련될 것이라는 것이다; 이것이 좋든 싫든 간에, 그것이 방법이고, 미터기를 읽는 것만으로도 그들에게 아무런 의미가 없을 것이다.따라서 전환이 필요하며, 전환을 제공하려면 실행 가능한 전환이 제공되어야 한다. - 부시 레인저One ping only 08:15, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 기록은 6.16m이다.그것이 국제적인 운동선수들이 이런 것들을 하는 방법이고, 수십 년 동안 가지고 있다.20.21피트, 20' 2인치"가 아니다.이것은 질 좋은 백과사전이며, 국제 사회의 현실을 반영해야 한다.나는 운동에 진지한 관심을 가진 미국인들조차도 미터법 측정치에 대해 어느 정도 알고 있을 것이라고 의심한다.그렇지 않은 사람들에게, 전환이 정말 필요한가?HiLo48 (대화) 07:44, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 그건 정말 도움이 안 되고 비합법적인 답변이야. - 부시 레인저One ping only 07:14, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 십진수 피트 대신 발과 인치로 표시되어야 한다는 것에 동의하지만, 어떻게 하면 {{convert}}을 20'3"으로 반올림하지 않게 만들 수 있을지는 잘 모르겠다.(또한, WP:ERRORES는 향후 참조를 위해 이와 같은 요청을 위한 장소다.)- 2014년 2월 18일 부시레인저 07One ping only:14 (UTC)[ 하라
- 우리는 규칙적인 개종자가 스포츠에 대해 부적절한 대답을 하는 것에 문제가 있었다.그렇기 때문에 사용자:SillyFolkBoy는 위에 항목별로 분류된 T&F Calculator를 개발했다.장대높이뛰기#맨(내도어)을 보고 어떻게 사용하는지 알아보세요.Trackinfo (토크) 07:18, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
ANI에서 이런 일을 할 줄은 몰랐지만, 새로운 특징이 있다.
{{convert 6.16 m ftin frac=2}}
→6.16m(20ft 2+1⁄2 인치)
템플릿 토크:변환은 해답에 좋다.조누니크 (대화) 08:35, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
중단 계정, 다른 사람의 대화 및 사용자 페이지 복사, 관리자 가장
트롤-B-곤 지원.- 2014년 2월 18일 부시레인저 23:04 (UTC)[ |
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다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오. |
사용자 이름 및 편집을 참조하십시오.JNW (대화) 13:25, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
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다중 사용자 계정
WP 오디션:역할과 결과로 차단됨. - 부시 레인저 23:02, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 편집자 편집에서 CamedFan은 NOSHARE를 위반하여 "나 자신은 단 한 명의 사람이 아니라, 이 계정을 사용하여 Pamiled에 추가하는 다수의 위키백과 의사들이다!"라고 말했다. ANI의 통지가 주어졌다.안녕, TAK 22:15, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 그건 꽤 명백한 거절이다.우리는 공유 계정을 허용하지 않는다. 그리고 이것은 시사하는 바가 아니다. 이것은 공유 계정을 선언하는 것이다.독창적인 연구의 반복적인 삽입은 말할 것도 없다.나는 이 편집자를 한 사람만이 계정을 사용한다는 선언이 있을 때까지 무기한 차단할 것이다.WP별:ROLE, '계정은 개인으로서 당신의 편집을 나타내기 때문에, '역할계정' 또는 여러 사람이 공유하는 계정은 금지되고 차단되는 것이 원칙이다.' -- 아타마頭 22:27, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 블럭이야.WP:ROLE은 명확하다. --John (대화) 22:43, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
사용자:7&6=10대 북봉양조회사 홍보, 전쟁 편집
추가 조치 필요 없음 | |
계정이 손상되지 않았으므로 블록은 실행되지 않으며, 편집과 관련된 추가 문제는 여기에 있는 것이 아니라 다양한 태크 페이지에 포함되어야 한다.2014년 2월 19일 (UTC) 23:07, Writ Keeper[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
[20] [21] [22] [23] [24] 아마도 최근 편집한 모든 내용을 되돌려야 할 것이다.— 괴테안 20:19, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 난 이걸로 머리를 긁고 있어.이것은 6년 이상 이 프로젝트에 참여하여 많은 헛간 스타를 받은 확립된 생산적인 편집자다.그리고 갑자기 그들은 삽짝이 되었다.이게 타협된 계정인지 궁금하다. -- 아타마ama20:26, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 이 계정이 위태로울 수도 있다고 느끼고 스팸은 한 마음으로 끈질기게 진행돼 왔고 지금도 진행 중이기 때문에 나는 그 계정을 무기한 차단했다.내 의견으로는 이것이 (아주 최근까지) 훌륭한 편집장이었기 때문에 나는 이번 사태의 변화에 대해 매우 우려하고 있다.-- 아타마시 20:34, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 만약 내가 이 일에 실수를 했다면, 누군가가 나에게 알려준다.나는 보통 이런 종류의 일은 하지 않지만, 이것은 이 편집자에게는 그저 어울리지 않는 것 같다.이에 대한 그들의 반응도 심상치 않다; 차단되지 않은 요청은 새로운 편집자가 한 종류로 보이는데, 나는 그 블록이 정당하지 못한 이유를 대려고도 하지 않는 모욕적인 이메일을 받았다, 그것은 단지 여러 가지 모욕이었다. -- 아타마호 20:44, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 내가 실수를 한 것 같아.속단 사과와 함께 7&6=thirst틴의 차단을 풀었다. -- 아타마 2020:57, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 정말 이상하다.나는 그것이 정말로 노스피크를 스팸 발송하고 있는지, 아니면 666에 중점을 두고 있는지 궁금하다.마퀘트 토크 페이지는 이 양조장을 언급하기에는 이상한 곳처럼 보이지만 66.6에 대한 언급에 첨부되어 있다.우연?--S 필브릭(토크) 21:03, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 블록을 풀어서 지우고 싶다. 사과하고 싶어.나는 잘못한 것이 없다.나는 봇이 아니다.내가 봇이 되었다는 증거는 조금도 없다.Atama頭는 나의 6만 번의 편집과 무관하게 무모하게 행동했고, Ipse dixit은 내가 스팸메일을 하고 있다고 결정했다.편집 전쟁이나 담론조차 없었다.아타마우스는 그저 나를 무기한 차단했을 뿐이다.아타마오는 책임을 져야 한다.아타마오는 나의 편집 패턴이 바뀌었다고 말하려고 세부 사항과 증거를 제시하려고 했다.편집자가 "단일 목적 계정"이 되었고, 목적 isx 스팸 발송은 사실 근거가 없다고 말하는 것.이 관리자는 책임을 져야 한다.7&6=thirsteen (인터뷰) 21:09, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 토크:미시간 주 마퀘트?— 괴테안 21:18, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집자 토크 페이지에서 사과했고 지금 다시 그렇게 할 거야.거기서 내가 한 설명을 다시 한 번 반복해 볼게.
- 내 생각엔 네가 맥주에 대한 정보를 삽입한 것 같아. 왜냐하면 6.66% ABV 때문이야.네가 사용한 언어는 프로모션처럼 보였어, 정확히 마케터가 맥주를 홍보하기 위해 쓰는 것과 똑같았어.괴한은 나처럼 너의 편집이 그런 의도를 가지고 있다고 해석했다.한꺼번에 3곳에 배치됐다는 점도 홍보라는 시사점을 키웠다.나의 초기의 우려는 당신이 스팸 발송자가 된 적이 없다는 점, 위키피디아에 많은 도움을 준 매우 생산적인 편집자였다는 점, 그리고 여기서의 저의 의도는 (다른 편집자들에게 이전에 일어난 일이기 때문에) 이런 일이 아니라는 확신이 들 때까지 당신을 차단하는 것이었다.【가(家)】가(家 하(下)는 사람을 듣기도 했다.나는 사람을 빨리 차단하는 것이 아니라, 과거에 편집자에게 한 방 먹이는 것에 대해 너무 소심하다는 비판을 받기도 했지만, 여기서 받은 인상을 보면 급한 일이라고 생각했다.다시 한번 나의 실수에 대해 사과드리며, 앞으로 블록이 당신에게 불리하게 작용하지 않도록 차단을 풀 때 실수를 했다는 사실을 진술했다.
- 전에도 실수를 한 적이 있는데, 다시 말하지만, 난 완벽하지 않아.나는 조심하려고 노력한다, 나는 차단하기보다는 사물을 토론하는 것을 선호한다, 그리고 이 경우에도 내가 무엇을 하고 있었는지, 내가 틀릴 경우를 대비해서 왜 그랬는지 분명히 하고 싶었다. -- 아타마 21:21, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 블록이 여기의 오류였다는 것을 확신할 수 없다.7&6부터 질문에 대한 답을 듣고 싶다.--큐브 루머 (대화) 21:25, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 광고가 아니었다.그것은 단순한 사실의 진술이었다.그들이 그것이 제대로 조달되지 않았다고 말했을 때, 나는 그들에게 더 좋은 것을 주었다.맥주는 666이라는 숫자로 조작한 IBU와 ABV라는 두 가지 맥주 측정값의 이름을 따서 명명되었다.가정적으로 편집에 대한 분쟁이 있었다면 토론할 수도 있었을 텐데.이것은 토크 페이지에서 언급될 수 있었다.이것은 WP:편집 전쟁이 되지 않았다, 용어의 알려진 정의에서.대신, 그것은 명백한 이유 없이 "무제한 블록"을 요구하는 요약 자동화가 되었다.경고 없이.이 블록을 지지하는 주장은 카프카에스크와 엽기적이다.큐브 루머가 이런 행동이 정당하다고 생각할 수 있다는 사실이 나를 괴롭히고 있다.
- 세 군데에 대해서는 북봉 양조회사에서 언급하는 것이 그리 이상하지 않다.많은 양조장 물품들은 그런 종류의 정보를 가지고 있다.나머지 두 가지는 단순히 측정에 대한 설명과 양조업자에 의해 어떻게 이용되었는지에 대한 설명이었다.
- 당신이 지금 이 기괴한 행동과 참을 수 없는 멍청이들을 정당화하기 위해 새로운 이야기들을 조작하고 있다는 것은 애당초 정당한 이유가 없었다는 것을 암시한다.여기에는 적법한 절차가 부족하다.7&6=10대(인터뷰) 21:31, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나는 사과를 받아들인다.
- 그러나 나는 WP:Edit warring이 있었다는 새로운 주장에 모욕감을 느낀다. 그것은 처음의 충전에서 분리된 적이 없다. 이거 새 요금이야? 수정 수녀회 프로 툰? 전쟁은 없었다. 총성이 없었다. 아무런 경고도 없었다. 증거가 없다. 당신이 누군가의 사슬을 잡아당겨
6만6천 건을 무시하기 전에, 그들에게 경고하거나 어딘가에 게시하고 싶지 않은가? 네 절차를 보고 네 집을 청소해라. 7&6=thirsteen (인터뷰) 21:39, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[- 상업용 제품을 홍보하는 동일한 텍스트를 세 곳에 배치했는데, 모두 주제에서 완전히 벗어난 것이었습니다.편집 내용을 되돌린 경우.텍스트를 다시 삽입하셨습니다.나는 두 가지 선택이 있었다: 당신의 텍스트를 다시 삭제하는 것, 아니면 관리자에게 가서 말하라.나는 후자를 선택했다.관리자는 내가 본 스팸 편집 내용을 보고, 너를 차단하여 막았다.너는 아직 내 의견으로는 너의 편집 내용을 만족스럽게 설명하지 못했다.— 괴테안 21:44, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- (ec) 내가 언급한 그 반과학적 기사에 나열된 다른 양조장은 없다.그들은 분명히 부적절했다.나는 다른 신념이 있지만, 정책에 약간 당황하고 있다.아마도 당신은 단지 그 편집에 대한 판단 착오를 하고 있었을 것이다.--큐브 루머 (토크) 21:45, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집자 토크 페이지에서 사과했고 지금 다시 그렇게 할 거야.거기서 내가 한 설명을 다시 한 번 반복해 볼게.
- 그리고 토크:미시간 주 마퀘트?— 괴테안 21:18, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
나는 이제 사용자:7&6=thirsteen이 여러 가지 기사에 넣어두었던 Amazon.com에 대한 13개의 16개의 링크를 삭제했고, 그에 대한 대응으로 그는 내가 그를 스토킹했다고 비난했다.[25] — 괴테 21:51, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
편집 내용이나 내용에 대한 질문이 있었다면 WP:brdd가 되어 기사 토크 페이지에서 논의했을 수 있다.그들은 모두 문제의 기사와 관련이 있었다.당신이 그들을 좋아하지 않는다는 것은 나에게 만족스러운 기준이 아니다.그것은 무모하고 무책임한 반응의 사후적 정당성이다.아름다움처럼, 관계성은 보는 사람의 눈에 있다.이건 모두 네 몫의 장화 끈에 묶여있는 거야.만약 내가 그 수정들에 대해 사과하기를 기대한다면, 다시 생각해봐.이것은 모두 대단히 불균형한 것이며 위키 정책에 대한 일말의 활도 없었다.WP:3RR 위반 없음.내 페이지에는 경고가 없다.WP 문의:AIV는 어떻게 해야 하는지.그리고 그것은 모두 나의 역사를 무시한 것이다.요컨대, 넌 산탄총을 벼룩을 기르는데 사용했어 그리고 책에 대한 불만이 새로운 비난이야?그래서 우리는 Xclear야, 나는 네가 스토킹했다고 비난하지 않았어.사실 나는 증거가 없다고 말했다.7&6=10대 (인터뷰) 21:55, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 어, BRD의 "R"은 "역전"을 의미하니까 괴테안이 BRD를 했군2014년 2월 19일(UTC) 21:59, Writ Keeper⚇[
- 너처럼 아마존 링크를 포함시키는 것이 어떻게 적절한지 모르겠고, 그런 경험 많은 편집자 7&6=10대에게는 여기서 어떤 문제도 볼 수 없다는 것이 조금 걱정스럽다.양조장 편집에 대한 의견 없음.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 22:01, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그는 그것을 한 번 했다.WP:BRD의 "블록"은 어디에 있는가?나는 익명의 편집자에게 내가 받은 것보다 더 많은 경고를 할 것이다.그리고 나는 아무것도 받지 않았다.링크가 마음에 들지 않으면 끌어내거나 토크 페이지에서 토론하십시오.그러나 나를 사후 심문에 부치지는 마라.이것은 빠르게 마녀사냥이 되고 있다.7&6=thirsteen (인터뷰) 22:08, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 이 페이지의 맨 위에 있는 상자에 "여기에 사용자에 대한 불만을 게시하기 전에 사용자 대화 페이지에 사용자와 이 문제에 대해 논의하십시오."라고 나와 있는 이유가 여기에 있을 수 있다.만약 괴테안이 이곳을 달리는 대신 그렇게 했더라면 이 중 상당 부분은 피할 수 있었을 것이다.아타마는 실수를 하고 사과했고, 7&6=10은 그것을 받아들였다."전쟁 편집"은 잘못된 설명이다.맥주의 편집은 아마도 제대로 제거되었을 것이다. 하지만 나는 맥주가 추가된 이유를 이해한다. 그리고 그것은 "스팸"이 아니다.나머지 불협화음은 기사토크 페이지에서 정상적인 토론을 통해 해결할 수 있다.그리고 아마존 링크는 우리가 하는 방식이 아니라, 맥주 회사의 실밥이라는 비난을 받자마자, 여러분은 그것이 어떻게 누군가를 화나게 하는 경향이 있는지 확실히 알 수 있을 것이다. --플로켄빔 (대화) 22:07, 2014년 2월 19 (UTC)[ 하라
- 응, 그거면 충분해.내가 너무 관여해서 그렇게 할 수 없다고 생각하는 사람이 아니라면, 나는 더 이상의 조치 없이 이 섹션을 닫을 것이다(이 경우, 나에게 알려주면 내가 스스로 되돌릴 것이다).2014년 2월 19일 (UTC) 23:05, Writ Keeper[
이전에 편집한 내용이 열성적인 것으로 간주된 경우 사과
IP가 우리를 대신하여 받아들인 사과.두려워할 필요 없어. 어떤 방랑자도 여기 내려오지 않을 거야.고마워, Drmies (대화) 03:03, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 최근, 오늘 오전, Need for Speed: Most Wanted(2005년 비디오 게임) 프로젝트/기사를 파괴한 것에 대해 경고를 받았고, 위키미디어 관리자들이 내 행동이 위키백과 이용 약관에 위반된다고 믿고 결과적으로 편집 특권을 차단하겠다고 위협한 것에 대해 사과하고 싶었다.
자폐증이 있고 게임 플레이의 마지막 부분에 관한 몇 가지 사항과 함께 게임 플롯의 심층적인 내용이 이용약관을 위반하고 공공 기물 파손으로 인해 블록을 허가했다면 다시 한 번 사과드린다.
내가 그 편집을 한 이후로, 나는 경고를 받기 전부터, 위키백과 사이트의 기사에 내가 추가하거나 편집하는 것을 더 주의해왔기 때문에, 나는 다시 이용 약관을 위반할 위험을 무릅쓰지 않는다.나는 심지어 어떤 것에 대한 세부적인 것에 너무 집착하더라도 다른 사용자들이 위키백과 커뮤니티에 대한 위협으로 여겨지고 발견되기 전에 내 실수를 바로잡는 것을 도왔기 때문에 더 이상 어떤 기사도 편집하는 일은 거의 없다.지금부터 기사를 편집하면 사소한 오타를 고치거나, 글의 일반적인 설명에 위배되지 않고 다른 사용자에게 위협이 되지 않는 사소한 추가가 된다.
위키미디어 관리자들과 다시 문제에 휘말릴 위험이 없도록 도서관에 있을 때만 위키피디아에 대한 편집도 사용할 것이다.
위키백과/위키메디아 관리자 중 누구라도 이 글을 읽는다면, 내 행동이 위험하다고 여겨져 깊이 반성하고 있다.나의 깊은 사과를 받아주시고 반 해머를 무너뜨리고 내 특권을 영원히 잃을 위험을 무릅쓰지 않도록 좀 더 일반적이고 비특이적인 스타일로 기사를 계속 편집하도록 허락해 주십시요.
정말 감사합니다.— 97.84.179.166 (대화) 00:21, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- 이상한 경고네, 오늘 그 IP 주소를 사용하여 기사를 편집하지 않았잖아.
- 사실 리턴과는 별개로, 2월 9일 이후로 아무도 리턴을 편집하지 않았다...작년에 편집한 거 있잖아
- 경고한 사람은 너보다 편집이 덜 되었다.나는 그것에 대해 전혀 걱정하지 않을 것이다.경고를 자유롭게 제거하십시오. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 01:31, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
2.186.172.122
IP 차단됨 | |
사용자 DangerousPanda가 IP 2.186.172.122를 48시간 동안 차단했다.(비관리자 폐쇄) Jeffrd10 (대화) 13:20, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 관리자들에게 그가 반달리즘에 종사하고 있는 IP 주소 2.186.172.122를 사용하는 편집자에 대해 조치를 취할 것을 요구한다.
여기 몇 가지 예가 있다.
그리고 그것이 그의 공공 기물 파손의 모든 예는 아니다.관리자에게 이 IP 주소를 차단할 것을 요청한다.하니발911 (대화) 09:49, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
이 편집자는 나에 대한 행동을 계속 방해하고 있다.멈춰야 한다.하니발911 (대화) 09:58, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그들에게 48시간의 휴식을 주었지만 WP는:AIV는 공공 기물 파손을 신고하기에 가장 좋은 곳이다.사용자 페이지가 편집되지 않도록 보호하려면 (일반적으로 WP에서 요청된 내용:RFP, 하지만 현재 우리의 주목을 받았으니 여기서 요청하면 된다) DP 10:02, 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC)[
고마워한니발911 (대화) 2014년 2월 20일 (UTC) 10시 40분 [
카를로스수아레스46 대량생산 기사
이 논의에서 비롯되는 행정행위에 대해서는 공감대가 형성되지 않고 있다.그러나 Carlosuarez46의 방대한 기사 작성이 둘 이상의 편집자에 의해 문제가 되는 것으로 생각되고 있으며, 그들은 공신력 및 자동 편집의 문턱에 관한 더 큰 문제의 일부라는 것이 명백해졌다.그러나 이곳은 인구 밀집지역의 공신력이나 봇과 같은 편집과 같은 문제를 논할 수 있는 적절한 장소가 아니며, 그러한 문제에 대한 논의를 계속하기 위해 권고되는 한 곳은 WP:BRFA이다. 나는 이 실을 마무리하는 동안 카를로스수아레즈46이 그 시간까지 그의 기사작성을 자발적으로 중지할 것을 촉구하고 있다.카를로스수아레즈46에 의한 어떠한 연속도 주장을 하는 것처럼 보일 것이고 그의 행동을 더욱 불명예스럽게 할 것이다.De728631 (대화) 16:29, 2014년 2월 22일 (UTC)
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
카를로스수아레즈46(토크 · 기고)은 분당 2~10개의 수천 개의 기사를 만들고 있다.
WP에 따르면, 나는 그들에게 이 문제를 논의하기 위해 멈춰달라고 부탁했다.매스크리에이션.
사용자가 응답했지만, 질문을 받은 이후 멈추지 않았다.[26]
진행 중인 창작물 |
---|
22:57, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+436) . . N Mowtowr-e Bajar (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,835) . . N Mowtowr-e Khoda Rahm, Khash (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,781) . . N Mowtowr-e Khoda Nazer, Gowhar Kuh (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist). . (+1,799) . . N Mowtowr-e Hajji Mehrab, Khash (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,827) . . N Mowtowr-e Hajji Yar Mohammad (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,820) . . N Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh (create) (current) 22:55, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,812) . . N Mowtowr-eHajji Anur (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,813) . . N Mowtowr-e Hajji Akbar, Khash (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,781) . . N Mowtowr-e Gargij (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,767) . . N Mowtowr-e Gami, Khash (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,806) . . N Mowtowr-e Gol Mohammad, Khash (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,882) . . N Mowtowr-e Qir Mohammad Mir Kazehi (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,813) . . N Mowtowr-e Bulan Zehi Kach (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,821) . . N Mowtowr-e Bi Barg Rigi (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,824) . . N Mowtowr-e Esmailabad (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,780) . . N Mowtowr-e Amirabad (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,755) . . N Mowtowr-e Saraj (create)(current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,840) . . N Mowtowr-e Yusef Hasan Zehi (create) (current) 22:54, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,772) . . N Mowtowr-e Khodadad, Khash (create) (current) 22:53, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+1,827) . . N Mowtowr-e Hajji Qader Bakhsh (create) (current) 22:53, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . (+1,755) . N Mowtowr-e Bajar, Khash (만들기) (현재) |
88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:00, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:88.104.19.233은 인정된 양말 인형(여러 계정을 사용하는 것을 인정하는 대화 페이지 참조)이지만 WP에서 요구하는 대로 양말 인형과 연결하는 곳은 어디에도 없다.SOCK. 각 기사는 주목할 만하며, 스터브 카테고리를 만들 때(창작은 스터브 카테고리 참조), 이 모든 것이 오래 전에 논의되었다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:02, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 인정하지 않는다.나는 과거에 위키피디아를 편집한 적이 있다는 것을 인정한다.나는 그것에 관한 모든 정당한 정책과 지침을 따랐다.
- 게다가, 그것은 완전히 별개의 문제야; SPI를 시작하거나 당신이 원하는 어떤 것이든 자유롭게 시작하렴.
- WP:MASCREATION은 분명히 "커뮤니티에서는 대규모의 자동화 또는 반자동화 기사 작성 과제가 위키백과에서 승인되어야 한다고 결정했다.봇/승인요청서" - "대규모"에 대한 구체적인 정의는 정해지지 않았지만 "25, 50 이상" 제안은 반대하지 않았다.
- 카를로스수아레즈46은 '봇처럼' 여겨야 할 속도로 수천 개의 기사를 만들어 내고 있다.최소한 일부 기사가 만들어지는 것에 대한 우려는 있지만, 내가 여기에 회신을 보낸 시간에 50개의 기사를 더 만드는 동안 그 우려들을 다루는 것은 비현실적이다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:06, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
내가 바라는 건, 사용자가 멈춰서 의논해 달라는 것뿐입니다.만약 그들이 그렇게 하지 않는다면, 나는 관리자들에게 그들을 멈추게 해달라고 부탁한다.기사에 대해 토론하면 좋겠지만, 이것이 현재 진행 중인 혼란이다. 이것이 내가 ANI에 게시하는 유일한 이유다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:16, 2014년 2월 16 (UTC)[
- 우리는 지금 논의 중이다. 애논의 어려움은 그가 한 개 이상의 화신에 참여하고 있는지 모른다는 것이다."실제" 계정에 반영되고 싶지 않은 편집 작업을 위해 로그아웃하는 것은 문제가 있다.사용자:Reyk은 그것이 허용 가능한 편집이라고 생각하나?카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:18, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그래, 나는 그것이 받아들일 만한 편집이라고 생각해.정책에서 명시적으로 허용한다.편집 자체가 파괴적인 것이 아니라면(내가 볼 때는 전혀 증거가 없다), 88.104가 하고 있는 어떤 일에도 문제가 없다.만약 당신이 SPI로 가는 길을 알고 있다는 것에 만족하지 않는다면, 그러나 그 동안 당신이 명백히 자동화된 소스가 공급되지 않은 미세한 찌꺼기들을 만드는 이유가 있는가?Reyk 23:33, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
내가 바라는 건, 사용자가 멈춰서 의논해 달라는 것뿐입니다.만약 그들이 그렇게 하지 않는다면, 나는 관리자들에게 그들을 멈추게 해달라고 부탁한다.기사에 대해 토론하면 좋겠지만, 이것이 현재 진행 중인 혼란이다. 이것이 내가 ANI에 게시하는 유일한 이유다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:16, 2014년 2월 16 (UTC)[
만약 그들이 멈출거라면, 이 모든것들은 좋은 술잔에 대해 원만하게 논의될 수 있을거야.여기에는 나의 SOK 정책을 위반하는 것에 대한 언급, 대량생산에 대한 논쟁, 소싱에 대한 토론 등이 포함된다. -나는 사용자에게 중단하라고 요구했지만, 그들은 그렇게 하지 않았다; 그래서 나는 행정 개입을 모색하고 있다 - 현재 진행중인 불을 끄기 위해.내가 처음 이곳에 올린 이후 몇 분 사이에 20여 개를 더 만들어냈어. 88.104.19.233 (토크) 23:21, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
C, 나는 "실제" 계정에 반영되고 싶지 않은 편집을 위해 로그아웃하는 것은 문제가 있다는 것에 동의한다.하지만 나는 그렇게 하지 않아. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:22, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
(충돌 편집)대부분의 기사들은 장소를 위한 것 같다.그들은 방향을 바꾸려고 하는 것 같다.{{Khash County}}
파란색.--아우릭톡 23:23, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 오릭, 물론이지. 그리고 나는 그것에 대해 토론하게 되어 기뻐.그러나 [27]을(를) 한 번 훑어보십시오. 그리고 실제로 그들의 지속적인 기여를 한 번만 살펴보십시오.
- 지금
당장 그들은 멈춰서 의논해야 한다.지금 당장.빠르지 않다면. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:26, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 지금
(충돌 편집)*당신이 하고 있는 일은 WP를 피하는 것이다.정밀 조사: 어떤 축을 갈아야 하는가?너의 진짜 직책은 뭐니?아무도 모르게 하고 싶은 역사가 있었나?그건 문제의 일부야. 만약 당신이 진짜 계정을 우리에게 말하지 않는다면, 어떻게 그 지역사회가 당신이 내가 아니라는 것을 알 수 있을까(우리 둘 다 알지 못하지만 아무도 알지 못한다) 또는 여기에 언급하는 다른 누군가가....카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:27, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
(충돌 편집)*너는 선심을 가지지 못하는데, 내가 왜 "나중에 너에게 무슨 짓을 하겠니" - 나는 너를 양말처럼 막지도 않았고 너에게 SPI를 시작하지도 않았어 - 이런.지금까지 너는 내가 만든 어떤 것에 대해서도 단 한 번의 이의도 전달하지 않았다. 당신은 토론하고 싶다고 말하지만 주제에 대해 의미 있는 말도 하지 않았다.그리고 그럴 때, 당신의 논평은 평가될 수 있지만, 만약 당신이 우리에게 당신의 입장이 무엇인지 보여주지 않는다면, 어떻게 우리가 그것을 적절하게 평가할 수 있을까?내가 너에게 말했듯이 이것들은 오래 전에 단조로운 창조물에서 논의된 것이다. 내가 알기로는 네가 그 때 거기 있었던 것으로 알고 있다.WP는 관료주의가 아니다.로그아웃 모드에서 편집을 중단하고 (위키)자신으로서 테이블에 오십시오.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:36, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
- "난 너를 양말처럼 막지도 않았고 SPI도 시작하지 않았어." - 아이고, 고마워!나는 너의 관대함인 행정관이 단지 너의 능력을 남용하지 않았다는 것에 매우 감사한다.
- 이유가 있다: WP:매스크리에이션.특정 기사에 대한 구체적인 이유를 말해줄 수 있어. 잠깐이라도 멈춰봐!
- 나는 내가 과거에 너와 대화한 적이 없다고 확신해, FWIW - 비록 여전히 상관 없지만.
- 넌 관리인이야, 제발.제발 위키를 방해하지 말고, 핵심 원칙에서 물러서서 의논할 수 있게.확실히 당신은 분당 10개의 기사를 만드는 것은 명시적인 승인 없이 약간의 대화가 필요하다는 것을 알 수 있다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:44, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 그래서 우리는 상호작용을 해 왔다.어떤 일이었는데?아무도 너의 진짜 동기를 말할 수 없는 부분이 바로 이 부분이야.내가 말했듯이 그리고 계속 말한다: 이것은 오래 전에 논의되었다.그것은 규칙적으로 논의될 필요가 없다.이란에 있는 인구의 약 90%가 이제 완성되었다. 당신은 우리가 나머지가 필요하지 않다고 생각하는가?다른 물건은 필요 없니?카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:48, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 너는 읽을 수 없는 것 같다; 나는 "나는 과거에 너와 대화한 적이 거의 없을 거라고 확신한다."라고 말했다.
- 당신이 당신의 관리직에 대한 화두를 올렸듯이, 나는 당신의 RfA를 찾아보았다.나는 그것이 2007년부터이며, 현재의 기준과는 상당히 다르다는 것에 주목한다.그러므로 그렇게 오랜 시간이 지난 후에 현재의 기대를 인식하지 못할 수도 있는 것은 당연하다.
- 새로운 RfA에 제출할 준비가 되셨습니까? 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:51, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 당신이 양말이라서 다른 편집자들이 당신을 어떻게 생각하는지 알 수 없다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:59, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[ 하라
(충돌 편집)*내가 너한테 무슨 짓을 할 거라고 날 비난하면서 문을 나서다니...카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 23:57, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 진술이 이해가 되지 않는다. 그것을 명확히 하고 다른 것들을 공급해 달라.고마워. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 23:59, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)[
- "나중에 나한테 하고 싶은 대로 해" 위에 덧붙인 네 말이 그 자체다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:05, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
나는 여기서 그 문제를 보지 못한다.카를로스수아레즈46은 2011년부터 이란 정착촌에 관한 짧은 글을 쓰고 있는데, 나는 그가 지금 그만둬야 할 이유가 없다고 본다.WP:MASCREATION은 그가 어떤 종류의 자동화된 과정을 사용하고 있는 것처럼 보이지 않기 때문에 여기서는 해당되지 않는다; 그가 해야 할 일은 이전 기사를 복사하고 인구 정보를 변경하는 것뿐일 때, 1분 안에 여러 개의 기사를 작성하는 것이 오히려 쉽다.이란 인구조사 자료에 약간의 결함이 없는 한(그리고 만약 있다면 IP는 그것을 언급하지 않았다), 이것들은 모두 주목할 만한 주제에 관한 소싱된 기사들이다.출처의 질에 대한 정당한 불만이 있다면 듣고 싶겠지만, 그렇지 않으면 IP가 지금 3년짜리 기사작성 프로젝트를 중단하라고 요구하는 이유를 알 수 없다.TheCatalyst31 00:02, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아로부터 필요한 승인을 받아야 하는 창작물에는 전혀 문제가 없을 것이다.승인에 대한 봇/요청은 매우 간단하다.NE Ent 00:06, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
(충돌 편집)
- 이 문제에 있어서 나의 첫 번째 임무는 당신에게 멈추어 의논해 보라고 부탁하는 것이었다.[28]
- 너의 대답은 "나는 사람이 아니라 봇이다"라는 나만의 이야기였다.[29] 다시, 의논하는 동안 그만두라고 했지만, 당신은 계속했다.
- 그리고 그것이 우리가 여기 ANI에 도착한 방법이다.
- 나는 어떤 비난도 하지 않고 '문밖에서 시작했다'고 생각하지 않는다.
- 하지만 당신은 나를 양말이라고 비난하며 출발했다. 88.104.19.233 (토크) 00:04, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
Catalyst31은 자동화를 사용하지 않고도 1분 안에 10개의 기사를 만들 수 있다고 생각하십니까?
나는 정말로 그 원천의 질에 대해 궁금한 것이 있고, 그가 나에게 기회를 주기 위해 멈추는다면 토론할 수 있다! 88.104.19.233 (대화) 00:05, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 물론 10개의 브라우저 창을 열고, 글들을 단어로 써서 잘라 붙여라.이게 1분당 1개씩 진행된다면 더 행복할 겁니다. 그것도 가능하지만, 제 시간은 더 길어질 겁니다.너는 막연한 반대만 하고 구체적인 것은 말하지 않는다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:10, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 아마도 몇 분 동안 멈추고 IP가 그들의 명백한 관심사에 따라 확장되도록 허용함으로써 잃을 것이 없을까?그들의 불만이 무가치하다면 언제든지 재개할 수 있다.결연한 00:11, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 아니오, WP:미트봇.카를로스수아레즈46이 완전자동화, 반자동화, 심지어 잘라내고 붙여넣기까지 하는지는 중요하지 않다.NE Ent 00:13, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 보시다시피, 나는 한 시간 정도 새 기사를 만들지 않았고 그 기간 동안 애논은 아무것도 올리지 못했다.그나 그녀에게 얼마나 더 필요한가?WP의 경우:MITBOT는 품질의 희생도, 혼란도 없다.반대되는 것을 보여줘.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:16, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- "자동화"에 대해 보편적으로 받아들여지는 정의는 없지만, 일련의 빠른 편집은 자동화로 간주될 수 있다.위키백과를 참조하십시오.중재/요청/사례/리치_Farmbrough#Identify_use_of_automation_tools 및 Wikipedia_talk:중재/요청/사례/리치_Farmbrog#수정_요청:_Rich_Farmbrough_.28Nobody_Ent.29.NE Ent 00:34, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
Carlossuarez46, Re "aggue revages" - 나는 24시간 안에 구체적인 이의제기를 할 수 있고, 이것에 대해 논의할 수 있다.
24시간 동안 새 기사 만드는 거 그만하고 대답할 기회 좀 줄래?
만약 그렇다면, 이 ANI 논의는 종결된다.
내 양말 사용 혐의와 당신의 관리 행위에 대한 '측면 문제'는 다른 곳에서 좀 더 적절한 시기에 논의될 수 있다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 00:18, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC) 타격, 88.104.19.233 (토크) 00:29, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)
사실 - 위키피디아를 제출하는 것이 최선의 해결책이라고 생각한다.Bots/승인요청서, 계속 진행하기 전에 거기서 논의할 수 있어. 88.104.19.233 (토크) 00:24, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 구체적인 반대 의견을 듣기 위해 24시간 연기하겠다. 위키피디아가 있다.출처가 신뢰할 수 없다고 생각되는 경우 포럼으로서의 RSNB.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:28, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
미안, 답장이 오는데 내 "24"를 봤어.
더 만들기 전에 BRFA를 통과하시겠습니까?안 그런가? 88.104.19.233 (대화) 00:31, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 24시간 안에 이의제기를 할 수 있다.말을 하거나 평화를 유지하라.과도한 드라마는 모두의 시간을 낭비하고 있다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:32, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 카를로스수아레즈46, 너는 여기서 "드라마"를 일으키고 있다.당신은, 선의로, 당신이 알지 못하는 정책을 위반하여 기사를 대량으로 만들고 있었다.별일 아닙니다.하지만, 일단 그 정책이 당신에게 지적되고 나면, 독자 분은 애드 호미넴 공격, 지지할 수 없는 양말 비난, 그리고 WP:IDHT. WP를 얻을 수 없다면:앞으로 24시간 안에 MASCREATION 정책이 바뀌었는데, 당신의 마감일은 무의미하다. (내가 그렇게 전문적이지 않은, 인지력 가이드라인을 빨리 확인하면 기사가 괜찮다고 생각하므로 필요한 승인을 받는 데 문제가 없어야 할 것 같다.)NE Ent 00:39, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
(분쟁 편집) '너에게는 24시간이 있다'에 대한 응답으로 나는 그것을 받아들이지 않는다.
왕따인 것 같아.
정책별로 적절한 승인을 받지 않는 한/그 때까지 기사를 대량으로 작성할 수 없도록 필요한 조치를 취해 줄 것을 관리자들에게 요청한다.게다가, 내가 마지막으로 들은 바로는 마감일이 없었다.
나는 24시간 이내에 이의제기를 할 수 있을 것이라고 확신하지만, 왜 내가 - 개인적으로 - 그런 '데드라인'을 다뤄야 하는지 모르겠다.나는 당신이 대신 적절한 경로를 통해 내가 당신이 만들 계획인 페이지로 나의 문제를 설명할 수 있는 기회를 줄 것이라고 생각한다.
WP를 고수하기를 반복적으로 거부하셨습니다.MASCREATION, 즉 정책인 MASCREATION - 그래서 나는 현재 진행중인 그 문제에 대한 관리자 응답을 기대한다.88.104.19.233 (대화) 00:41, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- WP:MASCREATION은 그것의 조건에 의해서 수동 편집에는 적용되지 않는다.WP를 준수하지 않은 경우:SOCK 그리고 더 나아가서, 당신은 해결책을 제안하고 그것이 받아들여진 후에 그것을 회피한다 - 당신의 신의는 어디에 있는가?그리고 당신은 여전히 당신이 출처에 무엇이 잘못되었다고 주장하는지에 대한 구체적인 정보를 제공하지 않았다.그것 없이는, 너의 모든 음치는 드라마틱한 것이다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 00:44, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
계속되는 토론은 지장을 초래하고 무의미할 것이기 때문에, 나는 관리자들이 적절한 조치를 취할 것을 믿는다.당신은 정책을 고수하라는 충고를 받았지만 단호히 이를 거부하고 있다.나는 '적절한 diffs'를 적절한 시기에 제공할 것이다; 나는 그 동안 당신이 위키에 더 이상 방해가 되지 않기를 바란다.베스트, 88.104.19.233 (토크) 00:48, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
이게 '대량 창조'가 아니라면 뭔지 모르겠다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 00:52, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 나는 지금 몇 가지 구체적인 반대 의견을 추가했다[31] - 정말로, 그것들은 예에 불과하다.우리는 수천 개의 기사에 대해 이야기하고 있는데, 그 기사의 중단을 거부하는 관리자에 의해 처리되지 않은 것이다.
- 진지하게 - 장소들이 본질적으로 '못된' 것으로 여겨진다는 것은 이해하지만, '4가족' 중 24명이 사는 마을로, 유일하게 '여기서 검색하라'와 그것을 언급하는 2006년 엑셀 스프레드시트는?진짜로?만약 이게 허용된다면, 나는 내 욕실에 대해 쓸 거야.
- 그리고 그것은 그들이 이 ANI 토론에서 만든 수백 개의 기사들 중 하나일 뿐인데, 분당 10개의 기사들 입니다.왜 이것이 파괴적인지 알 수 있길 바라.분별 있는 편집자들이 이 백과사전을 만들려면 몇 년이 걸릴 수도 있다.
- 사용자가 몇 개를 만들었는가?몰라.수천
- 누구나 임의의 신뢰할 수 없는 자원으로부터 이런 것들을 자동으로 만들 수 있다; 그것은 단지 프로젝트의 정확성을 오염시키고 다른 사람들을 위해 엄청난 양의 일을 만들어낸다.이것은 꽤 충격적인 것이다. 특히 관리자로부터.그리고 탈주하라는 요청을 받았을 때, 그들의 대답은 나를 '소킹'이라고 비난하고, 나를 막지 않은 것에 대해 그들에게 감사하라고 요구하는 것이다.야단났네요.88.104.19.233 (대화) 01:48, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 위에 언급된 것을 포함하여 그 조항들은 나에게 완벽하게 맞는 것 같다.아주 작은 크기에서도 그 공신력에 대해서는 의문의 여지가 없으며, 소싱에 있어서 부적절한 것은 아무것도 보이지 않는다.당신이 그 기사에 대해 실제로 잘못된 것을 보여줄 수 없다면, 나는 그 기사에 대해 불평할 이유가 없다.대량 생성과 관련된 규칙은 그 이전과 마찬가지로 정확하다고 보여지지 않는 한 완전히 자동화된 또는 반자동화된 프로세스를 중지하도록 의도되었다. 그 후에는 상당한 문제를 야기하는 그러한 창작물을 여러 차례 반복해서 보여주지 않았다. 그것은 필수적인 규칙이었고 나는 그것을 확실히 지지한다.그러나 나는 대량생성이라고 여겨질 편집의 수에 대한 어떠한 합의도 없다고 본다: 누군가가 50을 제안했고, 다른 누군가가 수천을 제안했다.이런 종류의 일상적인 기사 50개를 복사해서 붙여넣는 것은 완벽하게 가능하다, 만약 한 사람이 적절한 믿을 만한 출처를 가지고 있다면, 그리고 나는 이 반자동화를 고려하지 않는다.안내 원칙은 WP가 관료주의가 아니라는 것이다.기사 작성에 대한 모든 제한은 백과사전을 해치는 것을 막기 위한 것이지, 개선시키는 것을 막기 위한 것이 아니다. (그리고, 나는, 나는 분명히 악의적인 편집에 매우 가까운 정밀 조사를 피하기 위해 로그아웃한 동안 편집을 고려한다.) DGG (토크) 01:55, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 1) 스프레드시트는 이란의 공식 인구조사 보고서 입니다.만약 당신이 정부의 인구조사 보고서가 신뢰성이 부족하다고 생각한다면, 당신은 착각이다.이 링크는 위키백과 전체에 걸쳐 신뢰할 수 있는 자료로 사용되는 미국의 건메즈 데이터베이스와 연결되어 있다.2) 당신은 내가 "이 ANI 토론에서 수백 개의 기사를 작성했다"고 주장한다.이 토론은 "23:00, 2014년 2월 16일 (UTC)"에서 시작되었으며, 초기 편집 시간이 정해져 있기 때문이다.이 토론에서 새로운 기사(100개도 안 됨)는 없다.이제 와서 무슨 요점을 말하려고 거짓말하는 거야?카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 01:59, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 이러한 내용 없는 쿠키커터 지리적 위치 마이크로스텁에 대한 의견은 다양하다.어떤 사람들은 모든 지리적 위치가 본질적으로 주목할 만하다고 주장하며, 따라서 쓸 것이 없어도 반드시 기사가 있어야 한다고 주장한다.다른 하나는, 나 자신이 포함시킨, 내재된 공신력의 개념을 완전히 거부한다.비디오 게임 중독자라면 100% 완성도를 얻기 위해 기계적으로 무의미한 일을 하는 것도 괜찮지만 백과사전은 괜찮지 않다.여기서는 내용물을 희석하고 확산시켜 사용할 수 없도록 하는 역할만 한다.나는 "랜덤 기사"가 유용했던 적이 있었는지 기억나지 않지만, 요즘 당신은 대량 생산되고 완전히 공허한 "아티클" 외에는 어떤 것도 얻을 수 없다.마지막으로, 88.104가 WP를 위반한다고 생각한다면:SOCK, 당신은 SPI로 가는 길을 알고 있다.누군가를 욕하지만 적절한 경로를 거치지 않는 것은 좋은 모습이 아니다.Reyk 02:25, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[ 하라
- FWIW, 나는 SOCK을 위반하지 않는다. 88.104.19.233 (대화) 02:30, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)
이전에 내가 질문한 간단한 질문: WP를 준수할 것인가:MASCREATION인가 아닌가?
몇 시간 동안 논쟁을 벌인 끝에, 당신은 그 정책을 고수하기를 거부했다.네가 그렇게 될 때까지 왜 차단되지 않았는지 모르겠다(물론, 넌 관리자니까 넌 특별해).88.104.19.233 (대화) 02:27, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
도대체 카를로스수아레즈46의 물품에 문제가 있는 것이다.나는 그들 중 많은 사람들이 불명예스러운 페이지들을 가지고 기사 목록에 들어오는 것을 보았고 나는 그들이 거의 똑같이 빨리 떠나는 것을 보았다.내가 dab-link가 많은 기사에 편집을 요청했을 때, 빠르고 정중하게 대응하고 링크를 풀어서 모호한 페이지를 만들었다.그의 업무 분야는 (dab-links를 해결하는 것 외에는) 내 관심 밖이지만, 나는 카를로스수아레즈46이 수준 이하의 기사를 만들고 있다는 징후는 전혀 없다.그렇다면 도대체 무엇이 문제일까?배너톡 02:36, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC) (갈등 편집)[
- 그들이 "이번 ANI 토론에서 수백 개의 기사를 작성했다"고 말한 것에 대해 사과한다. 그들은 단지 38페이지를 새로 만들었을 뿐이다.
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23:29, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우트르-에 코다 나저, 고와르 쿠 ? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우토우-에 하지 메흐라브, 카슈 ? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N토크:모우트르-에 하지 야르 무함마드? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우토우-에 하지 체라흐? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N토크:모우트르-에 하지 아누르? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우트르-에 하지 아크바르, 카슈 ? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94) ?N토크:모우트르-에 가르기즈 ? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94) ? N Talk:모우트르-에 가미, 카쉬? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리)... (+94?) N 토크:모우트르-e 골 모하마드, 카쉬? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N토크:모우트르-에 키르 무하마드 미르 카제히? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우토우-에 불란 제히 카흐? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우트르-e 바이 바겐 리기 ? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우트르-e 에스마일라바드? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94) ? N Talk:모우트르-에 아미라바드 ? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:Mowtowr-e Saraj? (projs) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+94?) . N Talk:모우트르-e 유세프 하산 제히? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N토크:모우토우-에 호다다드, 카쉬? (프로즈) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N토크:모우토우-에 하지 카데르 바흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐흐모우트르-에 바하르, 카쉬? (프로제스) (현재) 23:28, 2014년 2월 16일 (디프 히스토리) . (+94?) . N Talk:Mowtowr-e Khoda Rahm, Khash ? (projs) (current) 23:22, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+55)? . . N Rahimabad, Sistan and Baluchestan ? (redir) (current) 23:22, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+41)? . . N Rahimabad, Gowhar Kuh ? (redir) (current) 23:21, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+128)? . . N Talk:모우토우-에 코다 람? (projs) ? (현재) 23:20, 2014년 2월 16일 (fif hists) . (+541?) . N Mowtowr-e Khoda Rahm ? (create) (현재) 23:19, 2014년 2월 16일 (f hists) .N토크:20, (.모우토우-에 코다 나저? (projs) (현재) 23:19, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+460?) . N 모우토우-에 코다 나저 ? (create dab) (현재) 23:15, 2014년 2월 16일 (f hists) . N talk:모우토우-e 하지 메흐라브? (projs) (현재) 23:14, 2014년 2월 16일 (fif hists) . (+467?) . N Mowtowr-e-e 하지 메흐라브 ? (create) (현재) 23:14, 2014년 2월 16 (f hists) . .N토크: .모우토우-e 하지 악바르 ? (projs) (현재) 23:13, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+462?) . N 모우토우-에 하지 악바르 ? (create) 23:12, 2014년 2월 16일 (tif hists) . .N토크:모우트르-e 가미? (projs) (현재) 23:12, 2014년 2월 16일 (fif hists) . (+461) ?. N 모우트르-e 가미? (create) 23:11, 2014년 2월 16일 (fif hists) . (+128) N talk:Mowtowr-e Gol Mohammad ? (projs) (current) 23:10, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+947)? . . N Mowtowr-e Gol Mohammad ? (create) 23:06, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+34)? . . N Mowtowr-e Esma'ilabad ? (REDIR) (current) 23:06, 16 February 2014 (diff hist) . . (+128)? . . N Talk:모우토우-에 호다다드 ? (projs) (현재) 23:06, 2014년 2월 16일 (diff hists) . (+602) ? . N 모우토우-에 호다다드(dab 만들기) (현재) |
현수막은 내가 내 주변의 집에 있는 방에 관한 기사 만 개를 대량으로 만들어도 괜찮고, 내 지역 주택 클럽의 스프레드시트에 그것을 참조해도 괜찮을까?더 중요한 것은, 만약 내가 멈추라고 한다면, 나는 멈춰서 그것에 대해 의논해야 하는가?그냥 "오, 넌 아마 SOCK일 뿐이니까 무시해 버리고 아무렇게나 계속해"라고 말해도 괜찮을까? 88.104.19.233 (토크) 02:41, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 아직도 그의 '버스트-크레잉'(짧은 시간에 많은 기사를 쓰고 나서 조용함)이 어떤 문제인지에 대해 언급하지 않는다.네가 하는 행동은 네가 카를로스수아레즈46에게 원한을 품고 복수를 하러 나온다는 생각을 백과사전의 이익에 봉사한다는 생각보다도 더 많이 내게 해 준다.배너톡 14:44, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 제안된 테스트 사례. 아마도 누군가가 푸르장기, 카쉬를 AFD로 지명할 수 있을 것이다.그리고 우리는 그것이 어떻게 진행되는지 볼 것이다.
- IP로서, 나는 그것을 쉽게 할 수 없다.
- 나는 24명의 인구를 가진 '장소'에 대한 기사가 기록되어 있는 '센서스'에 대한 참고자료로만 삭제될 것이라고 생각하지만, 우리가 노력하면 알 수 있다.
- 그렇지 않다면, 나는 정말로 2b My Street, Something-에 대한 기사를 쓰고 3,4,5,6,7b를 대량으로 만들고 싶은 유혹을 느낀다.그들 역시 모두 진짜 장소고, 그에 상응하는 '신뢰할 수 있는 원천'을 보여줄 수 있다.나는 그것을 만들기 위해 1분에 10개씩 봇을 쓸 수도 있다. 걱정하지 않아도 된다.그리고 나는 그렇게 할 것이다 - WP가 아니다:포인트, 하지만 그렇게 해도 괜찮다면.
- 위키피디아가 그런 장소에 대한 기사를 받아들인다면 - 대단해!덧붙여야 할 기사가 백만 개 있어!
- 그래서 우리는 어느 길로 가는 거야? 88.104.19.233 (대화) 03:02, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 공신력 문제와 관련하여, 인구 밀집 지역에 관한 기사는 사실상 항상 AfD에 보관되어 있다(그리고 누군가가 몇 달에 한 건씩 지명하려고 하는 것을 볼 때, 나는 이 일이 마지막으로 일어났을 때 이후로 합의가 바뀌지 않았는지 의심스럽다).위키피디아가 백과사전으로 기능하는 일부분은 5대 기둥에 따라 관보사 역할을 하는 것이다.가제트는 전통적으로 정착지, 심지어 작은 정착지까지도 포함하며, 개별 주택이나 방도 포함하지 않기 때문에 여기서는 상당히 분명한 구분이 있다.위키피디아의 기사 수가 처음으로 증가한 것 중 하나는 사용자가 미국 인구조사에 기록된 모든 정착지에 대한 기사를 작성했을 때 발생했다는 것을 명심하라; 나는 왜 이란이 다르게 취급되어야 하는지 모르겠다.촉매31Reaction•Creation 04:37, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 멋진 논쟁이고, 다른 곳에서 우리가 가질 수 있는 논쟁이다.
- 한편 그들이 신이라고 생각하는 어떤 빌어먹을 행정관이 WP:V를 따르지 않는 1000개의 기사를 덧붙이고 있는데, 내가 그만하라고 하면 나는 '짝퉁'이라는 비난을 받는다.어때? 88.104.19.233 (대화)04:43, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 이봐, 진정해.예의 바르게 행동하다.MrScorch6200 (talk ctrb) 04:52, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 공신력 문제와 관련하여, 인구 밀집 지역에 관한 기사는 사실상 항상 AfD에 보관되어 있다(그리고 누군가가 몇 달에 한 건씩 지명하려고 하는 것을 볼 때, 나는 이 일이 마지막으로 일어났을 때 이후로 합의가 바뀌지 않았는지 의심스럽다).위키피디아가 백과사전으로 기능하는 일부분은 5대 기둥에 따라 관보사 역할을 하는 것이다.가제트는 전통적으로 정착지, 심지어 작은 정착지까지도 포함하며, 개별 주택이나 방도 포함하지 않기 때문에 여기서는 상당히 분명한 구분이 있다.위키피디아의 기사 수가 처음으로 증가한 것 중 하나는 사용자가 미국 인구조사에 기록된 모든 정착지에 대한 기사를 작성했을 때 발생했다는 것을 명심하라; 나는 왜 이란이 다르게 취급되어야 하는지 모르겠다.촉매31Reaction•Creation 04:37, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
좋아, 그래서 그것을 민간 용어로 바꾸어 말하면;
사용자는 정책을 준수하지 않는 수천 개의 기사를 작성하고 있다.
나는 그들에게 멈추라고 했지만 그들은 거절했다.
그래서 나는 관리자들에게 도움을 요청했다. 왜냐하면 그것은 위키를 교란시키는 진행중인 문제이기 때문이다.나는 정책과 관련해서 이유를 설명했다.
사용자가 중지하기를 거부하였다.
사용자가 관리자인 것은 맞지만, 나는 그것이 관련이 있다고 생각하지 않는다.
알았지? 88.104.19.233 (대화) 05:20, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 작성된 조항은 WP를 위반하지 않는다.MASCREATION은 자동화되지 않았거나 반자동화되지 않았다.이 점은 여러 번 지적된 것 같다.플랫 아웃 2014년 2월 17일 05시 32분 (UTC) 논의하자[
- DGG와 배너에 동의하라: 이것은 사소한 문제에 대한 많은 격론처럼 보인다.개인 정보도 없이 백과사전을 개선하는 것으로 돌아갈 수는 없을까?– Connormah (대화) 05:35, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
오, 이봐, MASCREATION의 컨센서스는 "대규모"에 대한 구체적인 정의는 정해지지 않았지만, "25, 50개 이상의 것"에 대한 제안은 반대하지 않았다.
이 사용자는 수천 개의 새로운 페이지를 만들고 있다.
확실히 당신은 이것이 '대량 창조'가 아니라고 말할 수 없다?88.104.19.233 (대화) 05:50, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 내가 보기에 MASCREATION이 잘 적용될 것 같은데, 커팅과 붙여넣기는 반자동이기 때문이다.동시에 카를로스는 내가 집계한 바로는 멈추어 버렸기 때문에 IP가 다른 곳에서 했듯이 어떤 관리 조치가 필요한가?FWIW, 나는 IP의 PROD 중 하나를 제거했다. 이러한 상황에서 그러한 삭제는 논의를 따라야 하기 때문이다.IP가 자신의 요점을 파악하는데 얼마나 많은 어려움을 겪는지 고려한다면(그리고 매 기간 후에 두 번 "리턴"을 치지 말고 그렇게 하도록 노력해 줄 수 있는가?sheesh!), 그들은 이미 12개의 계정을 만들어 4가족 마을에 있는 이 스터브들을 AfD로 보낼 수 있었다. 그래서 적절한 공동체 토론이 이것을 어느 정도 밝혀줄 수 있다.자, IP는 발가락이 섬세한 것 같고 나는 좀 과체중이긴 하지만 여기서 달리 할 일이 별로 없는 것 같아서 이 실을 닫지는 않을 것이다.Drmies (대화) 05:56, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 자르고 붙이는 것은 키보드를 사용하는 것보다 더 자동화된 것이 아니다.둘 다 고도로 자동화된 기계에서 기술 시설을 이용해 완성한 겁니다.대본으로 하면 자동화된 것으로 볼 수 있지만 손으로 하면 자동화된 것으로 볼 수 없다.(수동 확인으로 반자동화된 대본으로 해석하고, 그런 확인 없이 자동화된 경우 자동화된 것으로 해석한다)자르고 붙임으로써 데이터를 삽입하지 않고, 특히 수치나 지리적 자료에 관한 기사를 작성하는 사람은 사실 어떤 다른 방법이라도 인쇄상의 오류를 도입할 가능성이 훨씬 높기 때문에, 사실 그것을 차선적으로 하고 있을 것이다. DGG (토크 ) 06:15, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
드레이미스,
IFF TheCatalyst31은 정책을 위반하여 대량으로 기사를 만드는 것을 중단한다. 그렇다면 물론 괜찮다.
또는 WP와 협력하여 적절한 봇 요청을 하는 경우:MASCREATION - 그것은 그루비일 것이다.
'지금 당장'을 위해 우리는 사용자가 합의 없이 엄청난 양의 기사를 만들고 있는데, 그들은 중지하고 토론하기를 거부하고 있다.그것이 내가 여기서 행정적인 도움을 청한 이유다.
지금까지 그들은 정책을 고수하는 것에 동의하지 않았고 계속해서 기사를 만들어왔다.
좋아, 그래서 아마 그들은 지금 당장 잠자리에 들었거나 뭐 그런 걸 멈췄을지도 몰라; 하지만 나도 아마 잘 거야. 그리고 나는 그들이 고쳐야 할 1000개의 봇 같은 기사를 또 만들어 낸 것을 발견하기 위해 깨어 있고 싶지 않아. 88.104.19.233 (토크) 06:09, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
IP가 무슨 상관이야?그의 글은 오류가 없고 건설적이다.카를로스는 이란 기사를 몇 년 동안 연구해왔는데, 정확하다면 더 빨리 만들 수 있는 방법을 찾아냈다면 지금 그게 왜 중요한가?2시에서 10시 사이는 문제가 되지 않는데, 10시가 넘으면 허가를 요청하는 것이 적절할 수도 있다.그를 내버려두고, 그가 일을 계속하게 하고 유용한 일을 하도록 내버려두어라.같은 낡은 것으로 여섯 번을 다투는 통치를 그만두어라.누군가 가능한 한 빨리 이 실을 닫아 주시오.맨체스터 기반 IP는 이제 업무방해로 차단되었다.♦ 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC) Boomfeld 07:33, Dr. Bloomfeld 07:33[
- 소싱은 최소화하고 인지도는 전혀 없는 마이크로스텁의 대량생성은 언제 "건설적"이 되었는가?보브레이너 (토크) 11:41, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 그는 개발도상국의 실제 위치에 대한 아주 기본적인 정보를 제공하려고 시도하고 있다.당신은 모든 장소에 대한 스텁 대신 지역별로 소싱된 리스트를 만드는 것이 더 나을 수도 있다고 주장할 수 있지만, 그것은 우리를 자원으로서 개선하려는 건설적인 접근과 시도로 남아있다.◆ 블로펠드 박사 14장 57절, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 2002. — Scott•talk 12:50, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 확실히 하기 위해:나는 카를로스수아레스의 일에 반대하지 않는다. 사실, 나는 얼마 전에 그에게 축하를 했다.나는 MASCREATION이 적용된다고 믿는다(나는 DGG와 다르지만, 그것은 아마도 그가 나보다 "반자동화"가 무엇을 의미하는지, 그리고 나는 그 대본들이 무엇인지, 그들이 무엇을 할 수 있는지- 설명하지 않기 때문이다) 그러나 카를로스는 수년 동안 이 일을 해왔고 나는 그의 기여에 대한 이전의 어떤 문제도 알지 못한다.아니면, 다른 방법으로 말하면, 나는 그가 암묵적이든 명시적이든 허락을 받았다고 추측한다.엔트의 연결고리는 이해할 수 없다. 즉, 나는 그것이 이것과 무슨 관계가 있는지 이해하지 못하지만, 나는 아마도 나의 기술적 무지를 배반하고 있을 것이다.
이것을 통제할 수 없게 만든 것은 우선 카를로스의 IP(소킹 등)에 대한 끈질긴 질문의 줄거리인데, 내 의견으로는 모든 것이 이러한 창조물들과 함께 위에 있다면, 질문의 출처는 무관해야 한다는 것이 나의 의견이었다.둘째는 물론 IP의 불성실함인데, IP의 불성실함 때문에 다른 스레드의 행동을 차단하게 되었고, 당신의 진실된 행동을 수반하게 되었다.그러나 레이크와 보브레이너의 논평은 모든 사람이 그러한 창작물에 만족하는 것은 아니라는 것을 보여준다; 그들의 의견이 소수 의견일 수도 있지만, 심각하게 받아들여야 한다. ANI는 말할 나위도 없이 그렇게 할 수 있는 곳이 아니다.덕분에 드레이미스 (대화) 17:50, 2014년 2월 17일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 문제를 보지 못했다.기사는 대량으로 만들어지지만 나쁜 기사는 아니다.그들은 아주 눈에 띈다.'자동편집'을 주제로 복사-붙여넣기는 손가락이 임의 플라스틱 키를 치면서 어떻게든 이런 말을 만드는 것만큼 자동화돼 있지 않다.나는 여기 다른 글에서 단어 하나하나를 쉽게 찾을 수 있었고, 이 단락을 만들기 위해 열심히 그것들을 복사했을 수도 있었고, 그것은 여전히 같은 양의 아이디어를 전달하고 있기 때문에 더도 덜도 아닌 단락일 것이다.콘베이어벨트 2014년 2월 17일(UTC) 18:05[
- 역사적으로, "자동화된" 편집은 정의하기 어려웠다(WP에 의해 지시됨:MITBOT) - 지난 3월 토론에서 무언가가 "자동화되었는지" 여부를 확인하십시오.간단하고 정책을 준수하는 작업은 여전히 WP를 통해 수행할 수 있다.BRFA 승인; 카를로스수아레즈46은 이미 이 ANI 실보다 훨씬 덜 야단스럽게 그것을 할 수 있었다.나는 매우 IAR 기고자지만, 티를 건너서 눈을 맞추는 것이 더 이치에 맞는다고 생각한다.NE Ent 02:49, 2014년 2월 18일 (UTC)[
- @Carlossuarez46에 대한 질문:IP를 증거도 없는 양말이라고 비난한 이유는?나는 이것이 실행되지 않을 수도 있다는 지침/정책이 있다는 것을 알고 있으며, 일부 편집자들은 이것을 인신공격으로 간주할 수도 있다.(다른 사람이 알고 있는 경우 아래 링크하십시오.)Mr Scorch6200 (talk ctrb) 02:28, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- 음, 내가 IP를 "증거 없음"으로 고발했다고 진술하시오.IP는 여기에 그가 다른 이름으로 편집했다고 명시했다.WP별:SOCK: 사용자는 일반적으로 양말 금지 규정을 위반하기 위해 로그아웃을 편집할 수 없다: "로그인하지 않은 편집자는 계정이 없다고 직접 말하거나 이 정책에서 앞서 열거한 대체 계정의 부적절한 사용을 위해 세션을 사용하는 등 다른 편집자를 속이려고 적극적으로 해서는 안 된다.IP 세션은 WP를 위반하기 위해 사용되었다.정밀 조사 및 WP:HAND, 특히 로그아웃된 계정을 사용하여 자신의 실제 계정에서 추적하고 싶지 않은 편집 세트를 사용하십시오.업무방해 편집으로 블록을 얻었지만 메인 계정은 '깨끗하다'고 했다.적어도 한 명의 다른 행정관은 위와 같은 문제에 대해 우려를 표명했다.더 큰 그림에서, 위에서 IP가 요청한 대로, "내가 바라는 것은, 사용자가 중지하고 토론하는 것뿐이다."라고, 하고, 끝냈다.이 죽은 말은 채찍질을 당했고 메타 이슈와 편차에 대해 논의하고 있다. 그리고 내 편집이 부적절하다는 데 의견 일치가 없으며, 그들은 편리할 때 재개될 것이다.카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 04:03, 2014년 2월 19일 (UTC)[
- Thanks for stopping.
- Per WP:MASSCREATION, will you please now sumbit a request via BRFA before you make more articles? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I understand that A7 does not apply to places - and that's fine, regarding potential deletion. However, just because we make an exception for places when choosing deletion, it does not mean that you should create new articles with such weak sources. There are core policies that state creating such articles is prohibited - WP:V, WP:GNG. We can discuss the nuances in regards to places - I don't think ANI is the right place for that.
- My main concern is, you (an admin) are adding articles to the wiki that policy says you shouldn't create in the first place. I accept that other policies say that such articles should not necessarily be deleted - but that is another issue.
- You're creating articles from information that is like this;
Place | Pop (from a spreadsheet) | Geo coords |
Someplacename | 10 | 1,2,3 |
Anotherplacename | 20 | 3,4,5 |
Yetanotherplacename | 30 | 6,7,8 |
- You've got literally around 20 bytes of information about these 'places', and from each of those you are making articles that are about 4000 bytes - that is, 200 times times more than the information seems to need.
- Example: Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh. All you 'know' is, it's a village. In that particular example, you don't even know the population or where it is.
- Just that the name was once mentioned on a census.
- I do understand that the wiki gives a special case for places, but really... there is no encyclopaedic information about that village, except that it probably exists. Nothing. But you've made an article that, with templates, is over 800 lines long. It adds nothing to the encyclopaeida at all.
- So please, will you stop adding any more, and allow discussion? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 04:38, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- As discussed above it doesn't apply, so no. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 04:31, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- You seem to show a great dislike of administrators. You keep repeating that I am one. You also noted earlier that that's not relevant. I beg to differ from your interpretation: it adds "nothing" to the encyclopedia is your opinion. It is not the majority opinion. As one of Wikipedia's 5 pillars is to be a gazetteer, putting an article about each place is part of what Wikipedia is. given that we're not paper, we're uniquely able to do that. Once an article is started others can expand it (including IP's like you who cannot create an article) - some have already begun to expand Aghuyeh, East Azerbaijan among numerous others. You don't like the sources, but you didn't complain to RS notice board. The census published by the Iranian government and subsequently taken down is used throughout. Geonames is published by the US government. Other sources are also used. Rather than trying to stop or delete articles, improve them. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 04:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Please stop the ad hominem attacks.
As to whether 'mass creation' applies;
On 16 Feb, you created over 1000 new pages.
[list blanked--page size increase of some 25% is not helpful. it's in the history if you want to see it. Drmies]
I put it to you that that is 'mass creation' in anybody's terms. Nobody can realistically say a user can create so many valid articles in such a short time, without automation. Whether you're copy-pasting onto tabs, or using a program or whatever tool, is beside the point. You are mass-creating articles.
I am challenging whether your mass-creating is appropriate, with reference to policy.
So far, you have refused to acknowledge the policy, and your retaliation was to accuse me of being a 'sock'.
I intend to challenge that in the appropriate places - if you want to accuse me of socking, please use the right forum for it. I might do an RFC/U about your conduct. And the content of the articles (for mass creation) can be done on BRFA or AFD or whatever. ANI isn't the right place for that.
The only thing that belongs on ANI is, if admin actions are needed to prevent disruption. At the moment, you are refusing to follow policies; you have already created thousands of problematic articles without appropriate approval. I'm just asking you to stop it, and follow policy. Is all. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 04:52, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)*Your behavior here demonstrates that even were MASSCREATION to apply - which is doesn't to manual creations - it would be futile to go through that process. So even were it to apply, IAR also applies, which is also policy, and off we go. You have threatened to take various articles to AFD, plesee do so if you think you are correct. But I think it quite unfair that your objections should deprive the English-language Wikipedia of these articles (which seem to have no problem at the Farsi wikipedia). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 04:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm with drmies on this one: while I don't quite comprehend IP's tenacity, Carlossuarez46 could easily afford a two-day conversation about this mass creation. No one will suffer if a stub article containing an Iranian village name and population is delayed by a week, and then this entire thread could be archived and never read again. Sharpened axes could once again rust in peace. Cheers, Mr.choppers ✎ 04:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- We've had a two-day discussion here and what has come of it? There is absolutely nothing wrong with what I am doing (a minority opinion certainly objects, I see that). I am often in a minority in XFD discussions, but I would not repeatedly trying to force my position on others by trying to make them stop what the community doesn't prohibit. What ever happened to WP:BOLD, avoiding WP:BUREAU, and trying to make an encyclopedia (including the gazetteer part)? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:12, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- As I said, you don't have to stop: a brief pause (causing injury to no one) and an explanation, then you will most likely be able to continue just as before, but with even more consensus behind you, avoiding future problems of this sort. I don't see any reason to block or stop you, but I feel that IP has the right to ask for some clarification before add more new entries. Mr.choppers ✎ 05:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
The community prohibits the mass-creation of articles without prior approval. Full stop. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:20, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Carlossuarez46, you've said many things that indicate you do not understand current English Wikipedia norms - such as, "your objections should deprive the English-language Wikipedia of these articles (which seem to have no problem at the Farsi wikipedia)" for example. I wonder if this is because you passed RfA in 2007, when standards were very different indeed.
- I have already asked you on your talk page, but I ask again here;
- Will you voluntarily resign your admin status, and go through RfA, to show your current knowledge of Wikipedia policies, and to ensure the community has faith in your being an admin? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:24, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)@Mr.Choppers: I have answered all the sourcing questions. Notability can be tested at AFD, not ANI, as the IP states. Opinions on what gazetteer entries add to the project don't require further response. The IP's interpretation of MASSCREATION in not correct (or at least doesn't have a consensus) as has been discussed above, there seems only that procedural clarification. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:27, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Carlossuarez46, do you think that a user creating around 1000 new pages per day is 'mass creation', or not? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
You do understand that the policy only applies to automated and semi-automated creation, not to manual cut and paste. Continued provocation is a great de-motivator. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:37, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can you please directly answer the questions;
1. Do you agree that creating 1000 pages in 1 day is 'mass creation'?
2. Will you stop until you get approval from WP:BRFA per WP:MASSCREATION?
3. Will you voluntarily resign your admin status, and go through RfA, to show your current knowledge of Wikipedia policies, and to ensure the community has faith in your being an admin?
88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- 1. No, WP:MASSCREATION applies to automated and semi-automated editing only.
- 2. No, not necessary.
- 3. No, that seems to be your true objective.
That said, I'm done with this thread, feel free to comment but I will continue to create articles and otherwise improve the encyclopedia. Dealing with this drama has certainly made editing wikipedia less enjoyable. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Given those answers, I ask admins to prevent Carlossuarez46 from creating new pages in breach of policy. Again. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- @88.IP, 1) what "harm" is Carlos doing to Wikipedia with this "mass creation" of articles? (WP:HARM unfortunately refers to BLPs only) and 2) review WP:GEOLAND - populated, legally recognized places (such as these villages) are deemed notable. I'm sure they would hold up at AfD. Carlos here has been doing this for a long while without incident, and while his behavior may not be perfect (I don't care about that point), he has explained the policy basis for his actions multiple times to multiple people; and almost everyone who has commented in the section other than you agrees with him. Why won't you learn to drop the stick? First with the section-close edit warring and now here. 6an6sh6 06:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Ashn66 - he's creating many thousands of articles in a short space of time which do not meet the core principles of WP:V WP:N. Also, he's not obeying policies and guidelines.
Hey, can anyone explain any policy/guideline reasons why it is acceptable to create shite like Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh? The reference there shows it (probably) exists, and that's about all. I understand that there's no CSD, and that geo places are somehow 'special', but I don't see it adds anything to the Enclyclopaedia.
And please don't say 'take it to AFD', because we're talking about thousands of articles he's created.
I'm kinda sorta working on a RFC/U and/or Arbcom case, but just seeking opinions - why would anyone think that Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh was valid?
Thanks. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:01, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
---anyone who thinks I'm just being a dick, please just look at [32]. Thanks. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
(Ansh666, I will read it carefully now and respond soonest) 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Ansh666, OK, I will respond to your points in turn;
- 1) what "harm" is Carlos doing to Wikipedia with this "mass creation" of articles?
It dilutes encyclopaedic information. For example, I could find a spreadsheet showing the "winners of the local chess championship in the town of Rachel, Nevada. I could create 1000 articles from it. That would not increase the "sum of all human knowledge" because it'd be massively open to misrepresentation - anyone can create pages showing things like that - and we do not allow them, for good reason. WP:V and so on.
By creating 1000s of poorly-sourced automated articles, he is making wikipedia just a little-bit-less-reliable.
The articles need to show verifiable facts. Adding that 'foobaabazz town' exists (ref a-spreadsheet-that-doesn't-even-exist-any-more, see archive-here) is the weakest imaginable case. It seems to have some special status, because it's allegedly a 'place' in India.
If that is the case, then I can find a spreadsheet from the UK council showing the geo-locations of every pothole in the UK. Are they notable? No, of course not.
He's adding places with a population of zero - and population 'unknown'.
If we allow that, then others can add 'places' like the bottom left corner of Main Street in Birmingham.
There is no WP:V at all.
2) review WP:GEOLAND - populated, legally recognized places (such as these villages) are deemed notable.
OK, Brian is sleeping in my kitchen tonight; can I haz article?
>I'm sure they would hold up at AfD.
We shall see - shall we? That's the wiki way. I'll nominate some as soon as possible. But I need to check them, and I can't check 1000 articles in 1 day - it's just not possible. That's why the wiki is careful about mass-creation.
>Carlos here has been doing this for a long while without incident, and while his behavior may not be perfect (I don't care about that point), he has explained the policy basis for his actions multiple times
Yeah, but, I have explained his behaviour is against several policies many times too.
>to multiple people; and almost everyone who has commented in the section other than you agrees with him.
I don't think that is true. I think lots have sided with him - after all, he's a special-admin, and I'm a humble IP. But at least some have wondered if his blatant disregard for policy and his personal attacks were perhaps 'a bit out of order'.
>Why won't you learn to drop the stick?
Actually, I probably will. Because sadly, I've almost no chance to challenge the entrenched community of admins who defend each other. I probably will just give up, like thousands before me who wanted the wiki to be a better place.
>First with the section-close edit warring and now here. 6an6sh6 06:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Yeah. I get angry. Then I quit, or get blocked. That's how it goes.
Poor wiki. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:29, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sigh, another heavy dose of WP:IDHT and misquoting of policies - inching me closer to leaving this place, unfortunately. May I suggest you actually go and read, in detail, WP:Notability, WP:Verifiability, and Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features)#Geographic regions, areas and places before you come and try to quote them back to us? Also, Carlos isn't one of those admins that is well known and often-defended (Drmies didn't know he was an admin before yesterday, was it?); being an administrator gives him no special standing in this...dispute. And again, while his behavior hasn't been perfect, his actions outside this thread have been endorsed by everybody who has commented here with the exception of NE Ent and Drmies, who agree in principle with his actions but think that a BRFA would help. As they say, actions speak louder than words. 6an6sh6 06:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Sigh, admins break policy and guidelines, and an IP is ignored. Actions speak louder than words? What do you suggest I do? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Quoting "IDHT is just lazy in the extreme. I did hear it, and responded. I am more knowledgeable about wiki policy than you.
This is an easy one.
A user is making a shitload (1000s) of pages that don't conform to core policy. We have a policy to deal with that - WP:MASSCREATION - so, he can put in a request, and it can be discussed. That's all.
It seems like he is refusing to do that, hence asking for admin help. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:52, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Please don't hat this again, I put the relevant sentence in my edit summary but I'll quote it here again: "This template should only be used by uninvolved editors in conjunction with the talk page guidelines and relevant advice at refactoring." - the bolding isn't even mine. 6an6sh6 07:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ugh, between edit conflicts and my internet going out I keep losing edits. Anyways: "I am more knowledgeable about wiki policy than you." - literally every editor who has commented here would disagree with you on this one; seriously. Do you even read what I write? Anyways, as to what you should do, I've said that already: drop the stick. It's clear you aren't going to get consensus on this little crusade of yours. 6an6sh6 07:11, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Your reverting of my comments of this page is outside of policy.
Please don't quote template guides at me, like I'm an idiot.
I'll "drop the stick" if you want to drop editors who care about the wiki. Let me know. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 07:14, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, if you want me to go away, I'll go away. Fine, have it your way. Let me know if you want me to retire, too. [/sarcasm] 6an6sh6 07:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
---
TL;DR - Carlossuarez46 (talk · contribs) is creating thousands of articles - between 2 and 10 per minute. About places in Indiasorry, didn't check details; Iran - kinda meant 'India' in the sense of Indian subcontinent but that's wrong, I apologize 88.104.19.233 (talk) 08:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC), apparently based on an archived spreadsheet.
I've asked them to stop to discuss it, per WP:MASSCREATION.
The user has responded, but has refused to stop.
That's about where we're at - an admin refusing to adhere to policy, apparently because they think creating 1000 articles within a day isn't 'mass creation'.
That's what I'm asking admins here to deal with. Is all. The rest is just... well the usual ANI thing. Some users called me a 'sock', some bickered about the ANI itself, and so on. I tried to shut down such things, [33] but meh.
Bottom line - user mass-creating articles without approval. Needs approval. Refuses to apply for it (to date). Is all.
If I were cynical, I'd point out that if the user was not an admin, they'd have been blocked within minutes. But meh.
88.104.19.233 (talk) 07:25, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- And if you SLOWED DOWN and PAYED ATTENTION, it would be obvious that they're in Iran (that fundamental a mistake), and that very few people agree with you, and I doubt that the administrator status had anything to do with it. Ok, that's it, I'm done. Bye. 6an6sh6 07:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Stop shouting, and learn to spell, and I'll bother to respond. Thanks. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 07:37, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
The amount of time Carlossuarez46 has spent in this thread is greater than it would cost them to simply follow policy and file a BRFA request. NE Ent 09:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no issue here. If Carlos was creating rubbish, then that's an issue. Oh no, someone's adding new articles to WP. Hold the front page! LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 13:25, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Exactly. Most here seem to be in agreement that this is not automation and does not require a BRFA. Per WP:GEOLAND, these articles are perfectly acceptable. @NE Ent, how about the time time that the IP could be spending improving the encyclopedia that has been wasted drama mongering and beating this issue to death? The IP just needs to drop it and move on, this is getting tiresome. This is exactly how we lose valuable contributors to the encyclopedia. – Connormah (talk) 15:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I just want to chime in that I agree that this does not constitute mass creation as contemplated by rules applying to bots. I would further add that my view, as a disambiguator, is the opposite - the faster we can get all of these articles into the corpus, and their ambiguities hammered out, the better. bd2412 T 16:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
"For the purpose of dispute resolution, it is irrelevant whether high-speed or large-scale edits that involve errors an attentive human would not make are actually being performed by a bot, by a human assisted by a script, or even by a human without any programmatic assistance. No matter the method, the disruptive editing must stop or the user may end up blocked." WP:MEATBOT. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 20:14, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- If the above is considered acceptable, it seems I can start mass-creating articles about every household in the UK. They are "populated places", and there's government censor records on them, and other RS such as the telephone directory and the council tax register. There are around 25 million households, so it'll increase the number of articles on Wikipedia more than 5 times. Yay? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 20:39, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just my POV, but I have questioned the rationale behind having a one or two sentence stub about a village with a dozen or two inhabitants (and most of these are tiny, rural villages not towns or cities). It's like having a Wikipedia entry on every subdivision in every U.S. suburb. Neither are very notable. Liz Read! Talk! 21:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- In some cases, it's even less than that. For example, Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh - there is absolutely zero information about that village. All we have is, mention of it in a spreadsheet that was apparently once on an official site, but no longer exists there. The archived version of the spreadsheet doesn't seem to have any official title or anything to show it is authoritative - the header translates as "Census of Population and Housing 1385 (excluding institutional households and nomads)", but that is all.
- And the entry for Mowtowr-e Hajji doesn't even have population information - just asterisks, which it says means it has less than 3 households, and the data is excluded "to maintain confidentiality"!
- I actually tried to PROD that one, but the prod was removed "per WP:NPLACE" - which I don't understand, because that's just an essay.
- The relevant policy seems to be WP:N, and this certainly lacks "significant coverage". 88.104.19.233 (talk) 03:31, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Suggestion to close thread and change venue
Since it appears highly unlikely that an admin is going to block Carlossuarez46 on the basis of WP:MASSCREATION, and there is therefore no admin action to be taken, and since the community has failed (three times) to pass specific notability guidelines for populated places, I suggest that an uninvolved admin close this thread, and the discussion be moved to the Notability Noticeboard, since the notability of the articles being created appears to be the only issue remaining. BMK (talk) 20:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Notability noticeboard is dead. The page you linked redirects to WP:N. 6an6sh6 00:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
That's disappointing. Please understand, the only reason I asked ANI for help was, he refused to stop and have a discussion about whether they're appropriate. I hoped admins would enforce that principle, in line with policies - if he'd stop, and use BRFA to propose these mass creations, then I'd have a chance to put my case forward regarding specific articles and problems, and others could give their input. But if admins won't do anything, then there's nothing further I can do. *shrug*, no big surprise, but disappointing. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 01:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC) ...and, he's already started creating hundreds more. Well, fuck you ANI, this has been a total waste of my time. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC) -and the icing on the cake, you award the disruptive admin with a medal, and refer to me as a bastard. [34] Very classy. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 06:08, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- 88, the major problem here has been the way you've handled the whole case. Whilst the articles and the rate of creation may have been sub-optimal (I doubt anyone has disputed that), as has been pointed out to you multiple times, there is nothing wrong per-se with what they were doing; no evidence of automated creation has been presented, and your comments about creating an article on every household in the UK are not helpful or relevant. Various people have told you this, but you have failed to listen. Carlossuarez's user status is irrelevant in this situation, and they have discussed the issue - here. Multiple times over. The fact that you don't like their answers doesn't make them not exist. I think you need to move away from the dispute, and find something else to do here. In other words, I'm seconding the closure of this extremely long thread. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Luke, it's you that are not listening. I've given policy/guideline based reasons, and there has been no policy/guideline based counterargument.
- "nothing wrong per-se with what they were doing" - yes, there is; any large-scale automated or semi-automated article creation task must be approved at WP:BRFA.
- "no evidence of automated creation has been presented" - none is needed, because it is irrelevant whether high-speed or large-scale edits that involve errors an attentive human would not make are actually being performed by a bot, by a human assisted by a script, or even by a human without any programmatic assistance. No matter the method, the disruptive editing must stop or the user may end up blocked.
- If he is not using some part of automation, then he's typing at over 9000 words per minute (see his contribs). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.19.233 (talk) 10:04, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Articles such as Mowtowr-e Hajji Cheragh clearly does not have the most basic of requirements, lacking significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent.
- Note, there is nothing in N that excludes places. The only defence given was WP:NPLACE, which is an essay.
- So Luke, please respond directly to those points. Explain to me why it is acceptable for the user to break those policies and guidelines, and why I am wrong. Show me a policy or guideline to justify the user continuing to create them, when asked to stop days ago - tell me why they've not been stopped. Thanks. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 09:57, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- General consensus here is that this is not semi-automated or automated; copy-pasting manually does not count any more than using a computer generally does, and you can do that incredibly quickly with a very big monitor/multiple monitors and a lot of tabs open. Looking at my history from yesterday, whilst linking in an article I wrote, I linked it into five articles in one minute, without automation (and that's using Ctrl + F to find the mentions of the subject), so this being copy-paste is perfectly plausible. General consensus is that all recognized settlements that are regarded as villages or higher, if their existence is verifiable, are notable. This is derived from countless AfDs throughout the entire history of Wikipedia. This has all been pointed out to you by various editors, many of whom hadn't even heard of the editor you are complaining about (and I am indeed one of those editors, I believe), so you would be wise to heed the advise. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:50, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. I can't see any such 'general consensus'.
- A couple of previous arbcom cases have discussed what is and isn't "automated" at length, and decided that the exact method doesn't matter - whether it's using copy/paste or AWB or a bot, or whatever. The effect is the same.
- I accept that you linked an article to 5 others in 1 minute without automation - I don't see that as a problem. But he is creating 5 (and more) new articles per minute, every minute, for hours.
- How can anyone create so many completely new articles in 1 minute and be checking them properly? Humans just can't check that fast. That's why MASSCREATION wants it to be approved beforehand - because it can't be checked by a human as they are being made.
- I also cannot see any "general consensus" that all recognized settlements are OK. If that were the case, surely the N policy would have changed, or NPLACE would have been upgraded from an essay. In fact, I think that's been discussed several times but rejected, because there was no consensus. I'd be quite happy if those discussions were re-opened, and maybe a consensus could be found - but, it has not happened yet.
- In addition, there is nothing in the reference that supports the claim that these places are indeed villages-or-larger. Unless you're saying that anything listed as "Housing" (and not even a listed value for the 'population') is a "village"? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 12:36, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- You say you "can't see any such 'general consensus'"? Well, let's see, those that endorse Carlos's actions (not words) and don't feel the need for a BRFA or something similar (sorry about the pings):
- Those that endorse Carlos's actions but feel that a BRFA would be helpful or necessary:
- Those that don't endorse Carlos's actions:
- I think that's pretty clear.
- As for policies, this is the proper one. I've linked it to you twice above, yet you seem to not acknowledge its existence.
- Now, can somebody please close this? This is getting ridiculous. 6an6sh6 19:32, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- My name is Drmies and I endorse this message by Ansh666. Drmies (talk) 19:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ansh666 + Drmies, WP:NGEO is not a policy. It's an essay. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 22:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- A bit self-restrain (max. 100 new articles per series, max 2 series a day; excluding talk pages of such articles) should be enough concession to this WP:IDHT-IP. I endorse the request of Ansh666. The Banner talk 20:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, a complete halt is in order.—Kww(talk) 20:11, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- My name is Drmies and I endorse this message by Ansh666. Drmies (talk) 19:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I came to the thread late, but you can add me the list of people that consider this kind of mass creation of stubs to be misbehaviour, and the concept that this isn't the sort of thing that require BRFA to be laughable. This is obviously mass-creation. I don't actively fight this issue anymore because too many people don't understand the fundamental principal that nothing is inherently notable, but it remains true: nothing is inherently notable, and we should not have stubs about topics when we have no reason to believe that there is substantial coverage in sources about them. All of these mass-created articles should be deleted, and all editors that create them should be cautioned not to do this kind of thing again.—Kww(talk) 20:11, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Added (for completeness, not that it matters too much). 6an6sh6 20:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- On what policies do you base your opinion, Kww? The Banner talk 21:13, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- My question as well - please point me to the policy that says, explicitly, that "nothing is inherently notable". BMK (talk) 21:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Also, a reminder to all that the last time ArbCom dealt with the question of sub-stub creation was the Doncram case last March, and at that time they did not find any controlling policy, which lead to this as one of the remedies:
BMK (talk) 21:54, 21 February 2014 (UTC)The question of how substantive the content of a stub must be before it can legitimately be introduced to the mainspace as a stand-alone article cannot be decided by the Arbitration Committee. If the project is to avoid the stub guideline becoming a recurring problem in the future, we suggest to the community that this question may need to be decided through a deliberate attempt at conducting focussed, structured discussions in the usual way.
- WP:MASSCREATION as policy, WP:N as guideline, plus the knowledge that it was this very kind of behaviour with respect to geodata that lead to the consensus that WP:MASSCREATIONbecoming policy. As for anything being inherently notable: no class of item has ever been accepted as inherently notable. Even the ones that generally get lenient treatment are given that treatment on the basis of "there must be sources out there", not "this sort of thing requires no sources". The occasional creation of this sort of stub isn't prohibited by policy, mass creation of them is. It serves as a fait accompli, an attempt to overwhelm the completely justified merge and delete discussions. I suspect that the sheer magnitude of articles created by these various geobots and geoscripts over the years is part of the reason that the deletion arguments fail: not because the content is worth keeping, but because there is so much of it that people have grown inured to it.—Kww(talk) 22:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- So, in other words, there is no policy that says that "nothing is inherently notable", merely your own interpretation of the interaction between a policy and an unrelated guideline. In that case, I would suggest that you start labeling it as your opinion when you bring it out, otherwise people might get the idea that you, as an admin, were quoting an actual policy. BMK (talk) 22:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- BMK, I point you to WP:WHYN; you already seem familiar with the GNG part of N, but please note;
- "Editors apply notability standards to all subjects to determine whether the English language Wikipedia should have a separate, stand-alone article on that subject. The primary purpose of these standards is to ensure that editors create articles that comply with major content policies.
- We require "significant coverage" in reliable sources so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic. If only a few sentences could be written and supported by sources about the subject, that subject does not qualify for a separate page
- Because these requirements are based on major content policies, they apply to all articles
- Also please note that the only mention of the subject-specific notability essays says, Subject-specific notability guidelines and WikiProject advice pages may provide information on how to make these editorial decisions in particular subject areas - it does not suggest that they override or replace the core notability policy.
- You're asking us to prove a negative. That's impossible. N clearly says If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article - it doesn't say "...except if it meets the requirements of the content-specific essays". In the same way, it doesn't say "except if it's written by Jimbo". I can't prove a negative; just that there is no policy supporting what you are saying. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 22:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, BMK, it's a simple statement of fact: there is nothing in WP:N or our policies that confers inherent notability on any topic: there is none. In the context of Wikipedia, nothing, nothing at all, has inherent notability. And no, they are not unrelated. The impetus behind the rules on mass creation were exactly the same as this: Fritzpollbot's creation of geographic stubs that did not meet our notability guidelines. It's a cause and effect relationship.—Kww(talk) 22:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps nothing has "inherent" notability - but general consensus, no matter how little you like it (and you made it clear you don't like it) is that settlements classed as villages or larger are always notable, and that a lot of hamlets are as well. This is based on countless AfDs throughout the history of Wikipedia, with very few going against this (and those that did are usually where the village-size is questionable). Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 22:45, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Or EVERYTHING is notable. That intersection where those two roads meet? Write a Wikipedia article, it's on a map after all. That casserole your grandmother makes? Well, it came from a recipe in the paper so that means its referenced by a reliable source. And, apparently, every single person who has ever played a professional sport, even for one game, is notable. The problem is that the bar of notability in some areas is set way too high (even notable academics get swiftly deleted) while too low in other areas (a village in Iran with 6 inhabitants has a article?). It's completely inconsistent. Liz Read! Talk! 22:54, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Lukeno94, can you explain why you think this somehow immunizes Carlos from the need to get bot approval? We have required bot approval for all other mass creations of geographic articles. That's the reason for WP:MASSCREATION's existence: to get agreement in advance that the source quantity and types used in the mass creation are sufficient. Why do you think that Carlos shouldn't be subject to the same restrictions as Kotninski? Why are Iranian villages different from Polish ones?—Kww(talk) 23:15, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- MASSCREATION is hardly unambiguous - no definition of "semi-automated" is provided, and most of it is written as addressed to bot-operators, not to non-bot human editors. Assuming that Carlossurarez46 is not a collection of code, it's not at all clear that his actions fall under MASSCREATION. Yes, numerous people have expressed the opinion that it does, but just about as many have disagreed, so this can't be said to be clear-cut. BMK (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's absolutely clear-cut, BMK : "semi-automated" doesn't require paragraphs of definition. There's no way that Carlos could be editing at that speed and volume without an automated boost. No one can type and edit that fast. I don't think that you are arguing in good faith: you approve of Carlos's goal, so you are ignoring clear-cut policy that disapproves of his means.—Kww(talk) 02:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, BMK, it's a simple statement of fact: there is nothing in WP:N or our policies that confers inherent notability on any topic: there is none. In the context of Wikipedia, nothing, nothing at all, has inherent notability. And no, they are not unrelated. The impetus behind the rules on mass creation were exactly the same as this: Fritzpollbot's creation of geographic stubs that did not meet our notability guidelines. It's a cause and effect relationship.—Kww(talk) 22:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- WP:MASSCREATION as policy, WP:N as guideline, plus the knowledge that it was this very kind of behaviour with respect to geodata that lead to the consensus that WP:MASSCREATIONbecoming policy. As for anything being inherently notable: no class of item has ever been accepted as inherently notable. Even the ones that generally get lenient treatment are given that treatment on the basis of "there must be sources out there", not "this sort of thing requires no sources". The occasional creation of this sort of stub isn't prohibited by policy, mass creation of them is. It serves as a fait accompli, an attempt to overwhelm the completely justified merge and delete discussions. I suspect that the sheer magnitude of articles created by these various geobots and geoscripts over the years is part of the reason that the deletion arguments fail: not because the content is worth keeping, but because there is so much of it that people have grown inured to it.—Kww(talk) 22:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Also, a reminder to all that the last time ArbCom dealt with the question of sub-stub creation was the Doncram case last March, and at that time they did not find any controlling policy, which lead to this as one of the remedies:
Ashn66, I decided to try and do the same as you - to summarize opinions given here. I got this;
- Needs to stop mass creating - at least to explain, discuss, get consensus;
- 88.104.19.233
- NE_Ent
- Resolute ('you can always resume if their complaints are meritless')
- Drmies
- bobrayner
- Liz
- KWW
- Reyk (asks you to explain why it is OK)
- TheCatalyst31 (wants more info and discussion of sources)
- Scott_Martin (mentioned approval of RamBOT in 2002 - so, this need similar approval?)
(10 users)
- Does not need to stop;
- Carlossuarez46
- DGG
- Flat Out
- Dr Blofeld
- Nyttend
- Konveyor_Belt
- Mr.choppers
- Ashn66
- Lugnuts
- BD2412
- Lukeno94
- The Banner ('What on earth is the problem' - but maybe that has now been explained?)
(12 users)
This indicates we need discussion and consensus before proceeding. I've suggested BRFA many times, but if others think another venue is more suitable, that's fine too.
ANI is certainly not the right place for a discussion. However, it is the right place to force the user to stop, when they have refused to do so. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 22:52, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, you still have not explained what the problem is. The main thing I have heard from you is "he has to stop because I demand that" and a lot of WP:IDONTLIKETHAT AND WP:IDNHT. No serious arguments. The Banner talk 23:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're misconstruing my comments if you think I belong in the first section. I have absolutely no problem with Carlossuarez46's creations; my request for information was to you. You're provided more reasoning for why you want this stopped since then, and I still don't see any need for Carlossuarez46 to stop. TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 03:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Thus, my own suggestion;
Either Carlossuarez46 voluntarily stops to await consensus-outcome elsewhere, or admins block them. (Up to now, he has adamantly refused to stop, and is continuing creation).
Then we can discuss this in an appropriate place, and get the discussions off ANI. We can make it an RfC; maybe people can propose making essays like GEO into actual guideline or policy if they want.
In fact, that's all I've asked for since my first post here. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 23:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- No. Blocks are preventative, not punitive. In my (and apparently several others) view(s), Carlossuarez46 is doing nothing that would require a block to prevent damage to the encyclopedia. – Connormah (talk) 23:10, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- It would prevent him from running an unapproved bot, which is the point of this entire discussion. He's in blatant violation of our policies about mass creation of articles.—Kww(talk) 23:16, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can you prove he is running a bot? The Banner talk 23:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Since when is copy-pasting considered a bot? It still takes human effort to create the articles, unlike a bot, which I imagine could be left running in the background or something of the sort whilst a user performs other tasks. – Connormah (talk) 23:30, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- The only instances that I'm aware of where copying-and-pasting has been considered to be "semi-automated" editing (not being a bot, there is a difference) was when an editor was forbidden from doing anything automated or semi-automated, and the procedure that editor needed to follow was very specifically defined as typing into the edit box by hand. Even then, when he was brought up for violating the sanction for cutting-and-pasting, many editors objected that it wasn't a violation. By that as it may, a bot is automated, scripts are semi-automated, and maybe other methods can be considered to be semi-automated as well, but they are not bots, and there is no way that CS46 is running an "unauthorized bot". To claim that is to distort these definitions well beyond any reasonable interpretation. I doubt very much that a block of CS46 for "running an authorized bot" would stand up to scrutiny for more than extremely short period of time. BMK (talk) 23:40, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think the specific details of the method of creation matters. They're mass-creating thousands of articles that do not meet basic requirements (N). That's all. Arguing semantics seems pointless; surely creating several thousand articles at a rate of many-per-minute is "mass creation" according to any regular interpretation of those words.
- That was the conclusion in the arbcom case I think you are referring to - [[35]]. After considerable discussion, it didn't matter whether they were copy-pasting, editing offline with word-macros, using a program written in python, or sending the submissions via carrier pigeon. The effect is the same. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 00:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Your call for a block is utterly inappropriate, because regardless of what consensus there is right now, there is simply no way of warping things to say that the consensus is that CS46 is using a bot. Their current editing rate would be perfectly justified by a strong internet connection, and the copy-paste method, with multiple tabs involved. You have been shown (by all bar Kww, pretty much) that your comments about these places do not sit with long-standing consensus. [36] and [37] both seem perfectly valid to me, and they are both sourced well enough (with a source that can be copy-pasted rapidly, without any need of retargetting). You have also been told on multiple occasions that this is not the correct venue for discussing this, and yet you continue to drag this on for a ridiculously long period of time. Why do that, when you've been shown to be out of touch by the majority of editors? Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The community has decided that any large-scale automated or semi-automated article creation task must be approved at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval.(emphasis mine) "Human editors are expected to pay attention to the edits they make, and ensure that they don't sacrifice quality in the pursuit of speed or quantity. For the purpose of dispute resolution, it is irrelevant whether high-speed or large-scale edits that involve errors an attentive human would not make are actually being performed by a bot, by a human assisted by a script, or even by a human without any programmatic assistance. No matter the method, the disruptive editing must stop or the user may end up blocked." (emphasis mine) NE Ent 01:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The only instances that I'm aware of where copying-and-pasting has been considered to be "semi-automated" editing (not being a bot, there is a difference) was when an editor was forbidden from doing anything automated or semi-automated, and the procedure that editor needed to follow was very specifically defined as typing into the edit box by hand. Even then, when he was brought up for violating the sanction for cutting-and-pasting, many editors objected that it wasn't a violation. By that as it may, a bot is automated, scripts are semi-automated, and maybe other methods can be considered to be semi-automated as well, but they are not bots, and there is no way that CS46 is running an "unauthorized bot". To claim that is to distort these definitions well beyond any reasonable interpretation. I doubt very much that a block of CS46 for "running an authorized bot" would stand up to scrutiny for more than extremely short period of time. BMK (talk) 23:40, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- It would prevent him from running an unapproved bot, which is the point of this entire discussion. He's in blatant violation of our policies about mass creation of articles.—Kww(talk) 23:16, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hi. Regarding those two articles that you think are 'perfectly valid', I cannot find either موتور 22بهمن or پرويز within that spreadsheet? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I believe ANI is the correct venue to ask for a block of a user that is creating thousands of articles that do not meet WP:N.
- I agree this is not the right place for discussing policies.
- You've not shown any policy reason why I am wrong. You say "long standing consensus" - can you show me where?
- I have no wish to 'drag this on' - I just want them to stop editing, so we can discuss it in an appropriate place. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 01:17, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Try lines 3027 and 3118. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 01:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Can you tell me exactly what it means by "موتور 22بهمن (موتور جليل ريگي )"?
Sorry, I can't speak Persian. I assume you can, if you are so confident in the sources?
What indicates that it is notable? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 01:30, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
So you're saying that the only reliable source presented for Mowtowr-e 22 Bahman, Sistan and Baluchestan is a spreadsheet that used to exist on an official website (but has been removed) - and that it is listed there.
That is not "significant coverage in reliable sources" - and as explained above, WP:GEO is an essay, not a policy or even a guideline.
You are creating many thousands of similar articles.
They can't be deleted using CSD #A7 because they are places. And PROD doesn't seem acceptable either.(example - even though I dispute that removing the PROD on the basis of an essay is wrong)
That means, they'll have to go through AfD.
How many thousands have you made?
Do you really not agree that these invalid articles, resulting in several-thousand AfDs, is disruptive? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 01:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- 88, you really need to drop the stick and stop beating this dead horse. Regardless of what Kww has said, there is clearly not going to be a block of CS46 over this, you've repeated your charges ad infinitum and they're not carrying the day, your intransigence is verging on IDHT territory, and is beginning to be disruptive. No one is carrying your banner here – you have some moral support, but no one's stepped up to take the weight with you. I respectfully suggest you need to back away from this idee fixe and find something productive to do. BMK (talk) 02:17, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, BMK, you really need to stop defending the indefensible. Carlos is clearly violating policy, and it's unfortunate that a small group of editors is disrupting all reasonable dicussion of his misbehaviour by clinging to fig-leafs like "he may just be cutting and pasting really fast". He's not. He's making automated or semi-automated edits in clear violation of our bot policy,.—Kww(talk) 02:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Kww, you're not doing yourself or 88 any favors here. There are already serious doubts about your judgment as an admin, you shouldn't get yourself into an even deeper hole by stating as fact that which has not been established as fact, and putting forward your opinion as black-letter policy. It may come as some surprise to you that your saying that something is so does not, in fact, make it so. I suggest that you either produce some real evidence or stop making unsupported assertions and throwing your weight around. BMK (talk) 03:21, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Tell me with a straight face that you believe that no automation is involved with Carlos's edits. I don't think you can, and if you can, I think it casts serious doubts on your judgement. He's using automation at some level. There's no way to achieve this volume and speed without it.—Kww(talk) 03:36, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Kww, you're not doing yourself or 88 any favors here. There are already serious doubts about your judgment as an admin, you shouldn't get yourself into an even deeper hole by stating as fact that which has not been established as fact, and putting forward your opinion as black-letter policy. It may come as some surprise to you that your saying that something is so does not, in fact, make it so. I suggest that you either produce some real evidence or stop making unsupported assertions and throwing your weight around. BMK (talk) 03:21, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Still waiting for your evidence that he's using a bot, Kww. And there is no "clear" violation of any policies here unless you can prove so. – Connormah (talk) 03:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- "Not using a bot" is a strawman argument, clearly refuted by the explicit wording of the policy statements I've posted above with relevant sections bolded. NE Ent 03:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Same comment to you as to BMK: you can't seriously be making the argument that there is no automation involved in this volume and rate of edits.—Kww(talk) 03:36, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, BMK, you really need to stop defending the indefensible. Carlos is clearly violating policy, and it's unfortunate that a small group of editors is disrupting all reasonable dicussion of his misbehaviour by clinging to fig-leafs like "he may just be cutting and pasting really fast". He's not. He's making automated or semi-automated edits in clear violation of our bot policy,.—Kww(talk) 02:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've posted about 75 already written articles here User talk:Carlossuarez46/Khash Copy and paste the articles after each stub template into twenty open 20 tabs on your browser hitting save each time. Amazing, even you can do it - no script, no python, no automation - simply write your article beforehand and put it in mainspace when its ready. This is getting tiresome. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 05:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Personally, I don't care how you're making them, as I said above. It's just the fact that you're making a lot of them, and they don't meet N.
- I'm not sure how to resolve this discussion - and I am tired of it too. I'm tempted to send one of the articles to AfD, but 2 things are making me hesitate; 1. I'll probably be accused of "forum-shopping", and 2. You'll probably create 1000+ more of them while we're discussing the deletion of the single example. Especially if the discussion in the AfD gets as long as this has.
- I'm open to ideas... 88.104.19.233 (talk) 10:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- P.S. One quick question while I remember - how are you getting the Anglicised versions of the Persian names given in the spreadsheet? Do you have any source that shows the Anglicised names, or are you translating them yourself, or what? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 10:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- WP:DUCK applies: if you are sitting at your computer doing your best to pretend to be a bot for hours at a time, you are a bot. WP:MASSCREATION still applies, and your edits are still disruptive, Carlossuarez46: the time to get consensus about what kind of sources thousands of articles require is before they are created, not after. That's the whole point of limiting mass creation of articles: get a consensus as to what kind of sources an article about a tiny Iranian hamlet requires and what the template should look like. The last time the topic was specifically discussed, the consensus was 2:1 that a geodata item and a census entry was insufficient sourcing to create an article.—Kww(talk) 13:15, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- P.S. One quick question while I remember - how are you getting the Anglicised versions of the Persian names given in the spreadsheet? Do you have any source that shows the Anglicised names, or are you translating them yourself, or what? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 10:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sheesh. Somebody close this. This is ANI, FFS, where incidents requiring administrative action are reported. There is no incident here: if there is, there's thousands of them. BMK is correct: no one is going to block Carlos as a result of this discussion, and this was the wrong venue for a larger discussion to begin with--which hasn't stopped anyone. Kww may well have a point about a lack of inherent notability (and the constant question "where's the policy that says that" from both sides is getting tedious) but this discussion here, which should have ended a long time ago, will not answer the more general questions. So please, someone close this behemoth and archive it, and continue this elsewhere. Drmies (talk) 13:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
-
- WP:BRFA is, indeed, the correct place for this discussion, and Carlossuarez46 needs to stop creating these things until that discussion is complete.—Kww(talk) 13:31, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Violation of editing restriction by CensoredScribe
Already blocked by Floquenbeam. Drmies (talk) 03:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
|
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
CensoredScribe (talk · contribs) from 18:02 to 19:09 CS added the categories Category:Films featuring puppetry or Category:Television programs featuring puppetry to more than 15 articles. Earlier today CS also added the cat Category:Fictional weapons of mass destruction to several articles. This would seem to be a violation of the restrictions that were agreed to in this thread Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive829#CensoredScribe above. As usual most of these additions ignore the guidelines WP:DEFINING as well the fact that sourced info needs to be in the article before the cat can be added. More than one editor has mentioned the fact that CS should read WP:OR and WP:SYNTH yet the edits performed ignore both of these. We have had more than one thread regarding these edits in the last week or so and at the end of them CS seems to accept the restrictions agreed upon. Within a day or two CS returns to the old editing patterns. This shows WP:COMPETENCE problems. (Redacted) MarnetteD Talk 02:53, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
CensoredScribe back at violating editing restrictions after previous block
NAC:Nothing to do here until CS returns from his block. BMK (talk) 17:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
And as soon as the previous block expires, CensoredScribe is back at making mass changes to categories again.[38][39][40][41][42][43][44] 24.149.117.220 (talk) 01:48, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- This comes after several different editors expressly explained his situation to him on his talk page. At this point I'm not convinced in the slightest that things are going to change. GRAPPLE X 01:55, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Again? Already? Having read through the long thread at User talk:CensoredScribe where CS entirely fails to understand why the last block was imposed [45], I would like to make a formal proposal that CensoredScribe be indefinitely blocked from editing, as clearly lacking the necessary competence to contribute to wikipedia in any useful capacity. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, Floquenbeam already blocked CensoredScribe for a month, with the warning that next block will be indefinite. I think that's enough for now. But I think I share Andy's skepticism that any of this is sinking in. CensoredScribe seems to not take any of this seriously, given their apology to dragons and quoting Darth Vader in the recent request to clarify the topic ban. -- Atama頭 19:02, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Honestly, set his restriction to "CensoredScribe may not add or remove categories from articles under any circumstances. They may only suggest adding or removing categories on the article talk page but must include specific references in support of adding any categories, but may suggest category changes to no more than one article per day." Don't even let him play around with categories. The talk page thing is a bone to see if they can improve. If they can't, that can be removed as well. Ravensfire (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Honestly, I wouldn't even want to allow that much (the talk page stuff); there is no value whatsoever to this person's input into categorization. Categorizing JRR Tolkien's One Ring as a "Fictional WMD" makes my brain go all wibbly-wobbly. Tarc (talk) 01:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've had to re-block without talk page access, their recent contributions really aren't much more than trolling. If a month off doesn't help, I definitely think an indef block is warranted. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:08, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Honestly, I wouldn't even want to allow that much (the talk page stuff); there is no value whatsoever to this person's input into categorization. Categorizing JRR Tolkien's One Ring as a "Fictional WMD" makes my brain go all wibbly-wobbly. Tarc (talk) 01:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Honestly, set his restriction to "CensoredScribe may not add or remove categories from articles under any circumstances. They may only suggest adding or removing categories on the article talk page but must include specific references in support of adding any categories, but may suggest category changes to no more than one article per day." Don't even let him play around with categories. The talk page thing is a bone to see if they can improve. If they can't, that can be removed as well. Ravensfire (talk) 19:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, Floquenbeam already blocked CensoredScribe for a month, with the warning that next block will be indefinite. I think that's enough for now. But I think I share Andy's skepticism that any of this is sinking in. CensoredScribe seems to not take any of this seriously, given their apology to dragons and quoting Darth Vader in the recent request to clarify the topic ban. -- Atama頭 19:02, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- Again? Already? Having read through the long thread at User talk:CensoredScribe where CS entirely fails to understand why the last block was imposed [45], I would like to make a formal proposal that CensoredScribe be indefinitely blocked from editing, as clearly lacking the necessary competence to contribute to wikipedia in any useful capacity. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- That would make sense, but for all practical purposes the exact scope and wording of the topic ban no longer really matter. As it stands CensoredScribe has exhausted the community's patience and goodwill to the point that ANY disruptive editing, including but not limited to messing with categories, trolling, or even just wasting the community's time will be dealt with by a swift indef block that no admin in their right mind would undo. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:11, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I would be very surprised if anyone objected to an indefinite block - it probably would've gotten widespread support if it had been enacted this time around! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Lord of Rivendell
This user is being extremely disturbing. He got blocked two times before (check User talk:Lord of Rivendell for proof).
My first complaint is his edit sprees without consulting any other users in talk page and not obeying the plurarity rules. In Turkey article he keeps doing edits as he likes (see Turkey: Revision history for his edits and see Talk:Turkey about the other editor's complaints about him). Now he sees me as his enemy and began to conflict with my edits, throwing mud at me. (i think he is getting obsessed with me)
My second complaint about him is his racism and his nonsense slander on calling me associated with a terrorist organisation. If you go to the page [46] you can definitely see that he is saying those words; (I began to suspect that KazekageTR is a Turkish-speaking Kurd (probably associated with the PKK or DHKP-C, etc, i.e. an "extreme-left" militant organization) whose sole intent is to deface Turkey-related articles.). (by the way I've a Meskhetian Turk origin) First of all, i've made huge improvements on Turkey-related articles. For example i've completely renewed the page Modern equipment and uniform of the Turkish Army and significant edits on Turkey etc.. Secondly, i've got very upset because of a comment like that. I'm not a terrorist and no one calls me a terrorist one way or another. And what he did is racism and totally not acceptable.
Thank you for your consideration. KazekageTR (talk) 14:53, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's an interesting notification of this thread: "Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. And check your watchlist you racist."--Bbb23 (talk) 16:36, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- And then there's the WP:CANVASSING: [47] and [48].--Bbb23 (talk) 16:39, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is an exception for notifying concerned editors; I think that being called an "asshole" without provocation makes me one of them.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- And then there's the WP:CANVASSING: [47] and [48].--Bbb23 (talk) 16:39, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I've corrected the way that i've notified him cause i was very angry at the moment. And about those two users, they were the ones who recently got problem with Lord pf Rivendelll. I've simply asked help for my first complaint. There is nothing wrong with it. And did you read my compliants by the way? KazekageTR (talk) 16:58, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- If you were angry, you should have used the default notification message ({{ani-notice}}) to avoid showing bad faith. Epicgenius (talk) 17:33, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- KazekageTR has been accurate in his complaints. Rivendell's behaviour has made it very challenging for other editors to make any contributions to the Turkey article, he continuously monopolises the editing space (he has made over 300 edits to that article in less than 50 days) and initiates edit wars when "his" revision is altered. His unwillingness to reach a consensus for his sweeping changes is made much worse by his evident battleground mentality (see diff, diff, diff), which is ultimately the bigger problem here. To Rivendell everything is a confrontation, he may leave forever one day only to carry on his battling the next.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:02, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- Although KazekageTR is right in his complaints, he may be wrong in the way that he phrased his complaints. Epicgenius (talk) 18:44, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- KazekageTR has been accurate in his complaints. Rivendell's behaviour has made it very challenging for other editors to make any contributions to the Turkey article, he continuously monopolises the editing space (he has made over 300 edits to that article in less than 50 days) and initiates edit wars when "his" revision is altered. His unwillingness to reach a consensus for his sweeping changes is made much worse by his evident battleground mentality (see diff, diff, diff), which is ultimately the bigger problem here. To Rivendell everything is a confrontation, he may leave forever one day only to carry on his battling the next.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:02, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Well i don't think that me calling him as a racist isn't bad. Cause he sees the issue of being a Kurd as a something to get 'suspected' and i believe that is racism. Are we on the same page here User:Epicgenius?? And if you check the edit histories of those pages we've conflicted in (especially in Turkey), you will see that i was understandable, patient and tolerant to him. I've always stated those Wikipedia rules that he wasn't obeying in my edit summary or in the talk page. By the way because i was reverting his reckless edits, he started to be my enemy(like i said on the top) and opened up a section here in order to block me from editing. The admin found me innocent and warned him instead. After one/two weeks from that event, he got blocked. KazekageTR (talk) 20:06, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, we are on the same page, but you shouldn't assume bad faith. Epicgenius (talk) 20:09, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
If i was assuming bad faith, things would go way different believe me mate. By the way thank you for your interest, we can use your thoughts on this issue, of course if you state them... KazekageTR (talk) 20:18, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just FYI, but I find that it's better to get over having "enemies" if you want to continue to be a productive editor on Wikipedia. I understand that there are going to be times when you feel challenged and provoked, but try to not get caught up in revenge, squabbling and holding grudges. If it gets really bad, work on different articles on WP and keep your distance. Having enemies can be a quick way to slide into edit warring which can result in a block or, eventually, an indefinite block. When it comes down to "disruptive editing", admins don't want to spend time sorting out who is right and who is wrong, they'll just block your account because of your behavior, not the content of your edits. Liz Read! Talk! 21:59, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
My "problem"s with Lord of Rivendell have been limited to normal editing disputes, I have not encountered the personal attacks noted above. I do agree with KazekageTR that throwing around Kurd as an insult is not a positive trait. On the editing front, it is true that Lord of Rivendell makes long series of edits, but it's also true (as they pointed out on Talk:Turkey) that they in the past reverted edits by others which were just copy-pastes into the article from other articles made without attribution. In general, it would be useful if the talkpage was more used in conjunction with editing (and it has begun to be more used lately). I get the feel of increasing escalation over the past month. Lord of Rivendell should be strongly informed that throwing around insults is not an action conductive to a collegial editing environment (KazekageTR I assume has taken note that reacting by calling someone racist is not the most helpful move), and from that point if editors manage to keep a cool head and discuss things, I see no need for immediate blocks. CMD (talk) 23:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is not limited to Rivendell, but calling someone a Kurd as an insult is pretty racist.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:55, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Well User talk:Liz, so you're saying that provocation is something like 's*hit happens' ??. You cant just insult or try to insult a person like that. I can call you a terrorist and 'suspect' that you are a Jew and it is okay too? Look at [49] he is provoking me again by the way.
And that section is not just about this insulting thing, if you check my first compliant you'll see that he is not a cooperative person and often making trouble that bothers us all. By the way it wasn't just happened now, it happened so many times. Please refer to Turkey article for further information.KazekageTR (talk) 15:34, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- As I already said, this is not restricted to any one editor, I'm not singling out Rivendell or anyone else because I have seen this kind of behavior too often while contributing to Turkey-related articles to dismiss it as an individual flaw of character. But all too often when someone makes an edit to an article about Turkey, they will come across someone who will say, you have added/removed this and that to make our country look bad, you must be a Kurd! I don't know Kazekage's ethnic origin and I don't want to know it, but I can imagine that having to read such mindless tripe can make even the most level-headed editors lose their cool. So when someone retorts that this is racism, it might not be ideal editing behavior, but does it mean that they are to blame? Is that what our admins seriously think?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:01, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
- KazekageTR, this is just my personal point of view. Go ahead, call me a terrorist, I know that I'm not and it makes you look ridiculous for using over-the-top language. However, if you are calling me a terrorist because you think I'm Jewish, then you (or any editor) is guilty not only for being ridiculous but showing bias and not having a neutral point of view.
- But, and I think this is where we differ, although no one likes people to say hostile and negative things to them online, insults do not affect what I think of myself. If someone attacked me, I'd report it if it was a personal attack (as defined by Wikipedia policy), not because it hurt my feelings. If someone attacks you, it reflects badly on them, not you. And, I'm guessing, that most longtime editors at Wikipedia do not believe insults thrown around on WP because it's a sign of an immature editor and one who will get a warning and perhaps a limited block. Do not feel like you have to respond to insults unless they cross the line into a personal attack. Otherwise, I'd recommend rising above it and keep focusing on editing, not getting into personal grudges. You'll be happier, too, if you have a thicker skin. Liz Read! Talk! 20:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well how about that. He is teasing me again User:Liz, check [50], it is a personal attack indeed. Do you need any further proofs ?
- The question you asked proves that you are not a Turk.
- I think this is an unnecessary edit summary and I would call it an insult (that is, if you are Turkish, I don't know) but not as an personal attack. I think this merits a warning on his user talk page but unless this is continued harassment over a period of time, it's unlikely to earn him/her a block. LizRead! Talk! 23:24, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's a clear and direct personal attack. It's a direct continuation of his accusation (so to speak) that KazekageTR is a Kurd. Furthermore, the idea shown by the editor, that one shouldn't be editing the article simply due to ones origins, is not a collaborative attitude. CMD (talk) 00:58, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is a really serious crime in the terms of law as you know. That is pure racism, fascism. Well I dont know what the hell he wants from my ancestorial backgorund(I already said him im not Kurd, my family has Meskhetian Turk origin.) And CMD is totally right. He is reverting my edits because he is obsessed with my race. That is totally unacceptable.
- Whooa he is on an edit spree again ([51]) and he does not obey the rules that we made on talk page. Now he is typing Turkish,to his summary 'Herşey yalan, bunlar gerçek' which means 'Everything is lie, these are truth.'([52]). It is an edit which violates. Do you need further proofs to say that he is not cooperative person mate? Are you just going to say ok to his senseless edits/comments/trash talks ? WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT KazekageTR (talk) 19:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I can't comment on his edits on the Turkey article but just looking over his contributions, he does leave some hostile and taunting remarks in his edit summaries to other editors that warrants a warning from an admin.
- But I don't agree with your accusations of "fascism" and as far as "racism"? As far as I know, Turks and Kurds are different ethnic groups, not races. I don't see the insult but I agree that trying to identify the ethnic background of editors and imply that this is the basis of bias is inappropriate and has no place on Wikipedia. Liz Read! Talk! 20:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- My first complaint about him was his reckless edits like i said. He is not clicking the undo button but reverts our edits manually(i believe he does it for avoiding another block). I've summoned CMD and Underlying lk as victims of his edit sprees on Turkey article.
- We often use racism with fascism(like idioms) in Turkish language, thats why i wrote racism too(i know it is not applicable in this situation).
- As you have noticed, it is a personal harassment and it is a very disturbing one indeed, and it is wrong to get obbsessed with someones ethnical backgorund and imply that in a bad way. That is not something to get along with. KazekageTR (talk) 07:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Somali editor User:Middayexpress doesn't want human rights mentioned on Somalia page
Hi, I'm having some problems. I stumbled upon an editor who it seems is a long-time guard of pages related to Somalia.
User:Middayexpress does not like references to the page Human rights in Somalia being made on other Somalia pages. I don't know what the editors motivation is.
I think this is pretty unreasonable. Hey, it might be OK in Somalia, but this is wikipedia.
Thank you, Zoompte (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- The newly registered Zoompte account is a sock of the indefinitely blocked User:Andajara120000. The trademark breathless edits, anti-religious pov, anti-Somali/anti-Ethiopian pov, and obsession with associating the Tutsi Bantus with Nilo-Saharan populations are all the same. Identical obscure edits on the same otherwise quiet pages as well (see for example here and here). He's also clearly quite familiar with Wikipedia protocols, unlike actual newbies. Middayexpress (talk) 19:14, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- New user (or old person with new account) can you please provide me with the evidence of you trying to use the TK page to resolve this matter. You are reporting something but you are engaged in an edit war against what looks like a stable article. --Inayity (talk) 19:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hi yes, I've written on the talk page for Somalia. Zoompte (talk) 19:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Edit summaries such as the one where you wrote "Repaired content removed by a Somali Muslim editor" are unacceptable. Dougweller (talk) 20:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Why? Zoompte (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Since we are to focus on content and not the contributors.
- Please take sock allegations to WP:SPI. They have the tools to confirm. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Walter Görlitz, hat has already been done. AcidSnow (talk) 00:38, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Why? Zoompte (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Edit summaries such as the one where you wrote "Repaired content removed by a Somali Muslim editor" are unacceptable. Dougweller (talk) 20:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hi yes, I've written on the talk page for Somalia. Zoompte (talk) 19:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- New user (or old person with new account) can you please provide me with the evidence of you trying to use the TK page to resolve this matter. You are reporting something but you are engaged in an edit war against what looks like a stable article. --Inayity (talk) 19:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Unrelated, according to CU. Middayexpress, I'm afraid you can't simply revert with the sock accusation. Drmies (talk) 21:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I never asked for CU; a clerk felt that the difs were compelling enough to warrant one. Socking was also not the main reason I and the other editors reverted, as we explained elsewhere. It was actually pov-pushing (e.g. labeling a 1909 map of British East Africa as "British Kenya", though British Kenya was actually established over a decade later, in 1920). Middayexpress (talk) 14:10, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Recommend IBAN for TreCoolGuy and TDFan2006
These two have been at it for months, and even with TreCoolGuy's recent block, TDFan2006 intentionally left bordering-on-harassment messages on Tre's talk page. Additionally, TDFan2006 has consistently reminded TreCoolGuy of a previous SPI, and previously added a note to his own user page that he was keeping an eye on TreCoolGuy. These conversations have led me to highly recommend an IBAN between these two users, as very few (if any) of their interactions have been positive. See [56], [57] (the DrummerSL is a nod at the SPI), and after Tre removed the nod, TDFan replied with this, [58], [59] (which was later reverted. For what it's worth, the interactions largely seem to be TDFan2006 finding ways to provoke TreCoolGuy. gsk 20:50, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not just trying to make Tre feel like a guilty bast... whoops, gotta be careful about what I say. Anyway, I'm not just trying to make Tre be guilty, I was just saying that his comment wasn't really civil, he should change comments via guidelines and that he has been confirmed a sock... uhh.. oh yeah, a sock master. TDFan2006 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Your comments are not "bordering-on-harassment", they are harassment. See m:Don't be a dick(no that is not an insult, it's a link to an essay on obnoxious behavior) and leave TreCoolGuy alone. -- John Reaves 21:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Are you being bias and just being on Tre's side? TDFan2006 (talk) 21:15, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I doubt there's a bias or "being on sides" if more than one editor notices your behavior. Of course, saying things like "guilty bast..." do not help your situation at all. gsk 21:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Of course not In fact, I’ve blocked him before, that’s why I even saw your edits on my watchlist. -- John Reaves 21:23, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Are you being bias and just being on Tre's side? TDFan2006 (talk) 21:15, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Your comments are not "bordering-on-harassment", they are harassment. See m:Don't be a dick(no that is not an insult, it's a link to an essay on obnoxious behavior) and leave TreCoolGuy alone. -- John Reaves 21:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- Come on, everyone calm down. Was TreCoolGuy's comment on my talkpage civil? No, not even slightly; it was pure trolling, hence why I removed it. I probably could've said my bit a bit more neutrally, but there we go. TDFan2006, you need to back off TCG, and I suggest unwatching his talk page and refraining from commenting there unless invited. It is fair to note that TDFan has only ever commented on TCG's talk page once outside of this topic; which was [60]. Not particularly nice, but understandable. I think this is Much Ado About Nothing, at least for now. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
- I would like a permanent interaction ban from TDFan2006 for harassment. He keeps on reminding me that I'm a sockpuppeter and asked me which you can check on my talk page You have been confirmed a sockmaster. Why haven't they blocked you?... He told me on his talk page which I questioned him about was why he said that he was keeping an eye on me and another user. Which is very stalker like words to say. Then just recently TDfan went to my talk page and called me DrummerSP. Personally I don't like to be reminded about the mistakes I have made in the past but he keeps on bringing it up. So please put a permanent block on him. - TreCoolGuy, 19 February 2014
- I'm having a look at this as well. The comments here by TDFan are way out of line, that's for sure. But I'd like to find out something else first--Admrboltz, what precisely was the reason for the last block? I looked through a whole bunch of TreCoolGuy's edits and didn't see the vandalism, though I saw what could be considered not OK, maybe. They asked you twice on their talk page for the reason and didn't get an answer, and I'm curious myself. Drmies (talk) 04:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- I thought this was odd too, and when looking through Tre's recent edits, I couldn't find a justification for the block either. gsk 05:13, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- The block itself was justified to some degree (although probably a little later than it should've been) - the vandalism occurred when they slapped the block tag on Rusted Auto Part's user page, but that was a while ago. Unconstructive editing, however, is what they should've been blocked for (and the gem on my talkpage is only one example of that.) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 08:03, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, TDFan just took a break, which could be very convenient. We're not going to block TDFan, though I see no reason why we can't tell them that they should stop these "reminders"; GSK has already pointed out that this is harassment. Drmies (talk) 04:25, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, doesn't look like Tre deserved the block. Epicgenius (talk) 20:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- I see that Admrboltz is back after a few days off. Drmies (talk) 03:07, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry... New job has been keeping me busy. In reviewing the block, I believe I may have erred in judgement. The user was originally reported to WP:AIV but in reviewing the edits closer, I was in error. --AdmrBoltz 04:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing. I'd appreciate it, and I think TreCoolGuy would too, if you left them a note. As for the matter at hand, TDF has apologized on TCG's talk page. I don't see much reason for an IBAN, if there ever was enough for such a heavy-handed measure as an IBAN (I doubt this), to enact one now. This thread is fizzling out but it would be nice if both editors came back here with a comment or two and we can settle this and file the paperwork. Drmies (talk) 15:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Mass IP spamming on AFD
ON #wikipedia-en-help an helper directed my attention to this AFD discussion which seems to have multiple IPs Spamming Keep. Given that Geolocate places the Ips to Israel this seems like a classic case of IP hoping. I propose that this AFD is semi-protected .--Jeffrd10 (talk) 15:01, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- I only see three "keep" comments from IP users in that AfD, and two of those are from the same IP address. The appearance of only two different IP address users in a discussion doesn't seem to be a "mass" amount of IP-hopping that would require semi-protection. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- There's a third keep now also from an unsigned IP user, very similar language in the Keep justification, but now from a mobile device in Tel Aviv rather than a desktop device in northern Tel Aviv. I suspect Jeffrd10 is correct. Simonm223 (talk) 18:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- I would say it's likely that if they're not all the same person they're at least meatpuppets. It's pretty rare to see IP users participate in deletion discussions for articles they didn't create themselves, and add to that that this article was created two days ago, it seems unlikely that there's such a mass of "foot traffic" that three random people would all happen upon it, then make nearly identical comments. I think it's telling that the first IP user (the one who created the page) made two totally different comments in the article. Likely that was before he realized that his IP would be visible and he was hoping to pretend to be more than one person.
- That said, it's not like these discussions are majority rules, so it doesn't really matter how many times they !vote. If anything it's hurting their case. It's probably a good idea to keep an eye on these IP addresses, though, since it's pretty blatant puppetry of some sort. 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 19:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- I was tempted to make the same suggestion. Sometimes a bad "keep" argument just strengthens the "delete" arguments. And if the IPs come up with good arguments to keep the article, then their argument should be heard. The only time we need to be concerned is if the AfD gets flooded and turns it into a mess. I wouldn't want to be the admin to sort through that when closing. (I won't be since I !voted already but still.) -- Atama頭 19:08, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
- That said, it's not like these discussions are majority rules, so it doesn't really matter how many times they !vote. If anything it's hurting their case. It's probably a good idea to keep an eye on these IP addresses, though, since it's pretty blatant puppetry of some sort. 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 19:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
The IP votes aren't exactly relentless or anything, but they don't seem to be abating. Is there any precedent for grouping all the IP votes together, or does that seem like it's stacking the deck too much? I know in RfCs sometimes they group by support/keep. Doing that would have the same effect as grouping the IP votes together, since all keep votes (save one) are from IP users. 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 21:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think I've ever seen IP !votes grouped together. Generally we let them stay as they're added in a deletion discussion, and let them stay as-is, though you can strike multiple !votes from the same editor, or strike !votes from a banned user or sockpuppet of a blocked user (essentially, strike any !votes that are improper). That's already being done, so we should be good. -- Atama頭 23:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
IP 75.52.186.148
Blocked for a year. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We have an evident problem with IP 75.52.186.148 (contributions [61]), who seems to have been spreading highly dubious WP:OR throughout multiple articles for some time (mostly relating to Germany, freemasonry, Ayrians and the usual conspiracy-theory hogwash). Given that this IP is now making bizarre accusations regarding User:Paul Barlow [62][63], I think a block is a foregone conclusion. I'd also suggest a rollback of all the IP's 'contributions' would be advisable. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Ask Gnostrat, etc. if I have been an unhelpful presence here. I have created tons of articles and supplemented others of low quality with the knowledge I have - simply lacking a library in my hands at every millisecond.
So my judicial murder is a foregone conclusion? That is the jurisprudence of Wikipedia?
I am willing to mellow out and follow the policies concerning original research. I have nothing to be ashamed of - the fringe and "evil"-type subjects I deal with is a form of personal psycho-catharsis in my own quest for understanding the problem of evil. I demonstrate utterly lucidity of intellect, and to constantly disparage and depersonalize me in belittling, scornful terms, and be "monitored" by P.I.'s, I find ridiculous.
Is the editorial council here prepared to even listen to me...?
There is no evident problem. Is this an examination or as you said, a "foregone conclusion"?
A rollback is simply gratuity of meanness. The ratio of quality versus negativity I have created is highly tilted in my favor.
Your personal lack of proper emotional detachment unfortunately similarly urges me to ask for any OBJECTIVE, DISPASSIONATE assessor or "justiciar" to supplant you. Good day.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk • contribs)
- Are all of the 75.52.186.148 edits yours ? Sean.hoyland - talk 19:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sean.hoyland - NO. I believe both myself and those who personally dislike me here are trying to figure out what is happening. I personally am computer-illiterate. I believe my I.P. is not static.
- I shall abide by the registration suggestion given here, in order to make less complex some of the confusion, the next time I contribute.
- On the other hand, ill-mannered and belligerent, bullying psy-ops tactics to silence others on the part of individuals or editorial syndicates, I firmly do not believe is moral and ethical.
- Below, I do not even know what this individual is talking about... "Banned editor?" How could I even type this then?
- Then choosing to accelerate things and pretend I am a fringe conspiracy-theorist and anti-Semite, a mental fallacy Wikipedia must uproot. I was not referring to Judaism, but the British nationality of the editor, in puckish or impish affect. The tone did not come out right across the Internet.
- shall correct my imperfections, and perhaps others can be less imperious, on the other hand?
- Does that sound fair?
- Next time I edit an article, I, beforehand, shall obtain a registered account and cite and substantiate all nice and scholastic.
- But no psy-ops can be hatched against me simply because I am a controversialist. And we know even editorial councils are not beyond human imperfection. No injustice is all I ask. Is that fair?
- Thank you for preventing judicial murder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk • contribs) 21 February 2014
- "monitored by P.I.s"? Look, despite my high position among the Elders of Anglo-Zion I haven't a clue who you are. If I have been reverting your edits for ten years, as you claim, that's probably because your behaviour has been unchanged over that period. Assuming you are not a banned editor, your best approach is to create a username and to prepare contributions with citations supporting your assertions. Paul B (talk) 19:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've looked at a couple of edits and HFS, that's some dense talk, with sentences that are hard to parse: "Germanenorden...was an intransigently right-wing, anti-Judeo-Masonic, völkisch secret society and simultaneously, in the deeper degrees of the society of monied officers capable of supplying arms and munitions, a "crypto-guerrilla" or atypical counter-espionage vigilance committee", that's bad already, but this edit (in Beati Paoli), is incomprehensible: check the paragraph starting "In 1071", for such pearls as "Scientific documentation in either direction relating to these questions is utterly befogged; and myth and reality blended so intricately, objective conclusions meet scholarly limitations". Dangling and ambiguous modifiers are all over the place, every noun needs an adjective needs an adverb needs another adverb--holy moly. But yes, at heart, in terms of Wiki policy, is the problem of reliably sourcing these edits, and one wonders if such statements are ever verified. The various personal attacks are just that, hot air, but disruptively so. Drmies (talk) 20:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello. You do not assume a neutral tone here, Sir. Please try to be civil.
I shall try when I open an account to render my bad style and bad lexicon into "popularized" acceptable accessibility, alright? Do you know that not every person on earth had English as their first language? I shall improve, but in an atmosphere of hostility where I am not given the chance, the greater disruption belongs to those who lack objectivity of perception such as yourself. You disrupt my attempt to civilly deal with this, and I do no appreciate it -
- The content they are adding, despite being pure walls of unparsable text, is unencyclopaedic. It's the contents of essays or dissertations, not an encyclopaedia, and is full of original research, individuals analysis and purely conclusions the editor has come to presented erroneously as fact. I also note that in November they "abandon Wikipedia in despair," so not sure why they're back. Canterbury Tail talk 20:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Further evidence of the conspiratorial nonsense being posted by this IP can be found in the history of our Dextroamphetamine article[64]:
- "As of the moment, the Russian-Israeli mafia criminal enterprise operation, half-Mossad, half-McMafia in personnel, masked as the corporate cartel "TEVA" has achieved gangland supremacy in its diversion and distribution activities done in the shadows; and all the more creditably, TEVA has wrestled against the FDA in victory; and now openly celebrates its anarchistic piracy morality of materialistic profiteering in its conquering manipulation of the generic ADHD, psychostimulant market in America, and now holds sovereign robber-baron imperial possession to price-gouge and skyrocket to infinity the DEXEDRINE of old, once the balm to confused minds of suffering individuals. One can only bow in obeisant submission unto TEVA."
- I cannot see how anyone who thinks that Wikipedia is an appropriate platform for such drivel could possibly become a useful contributor. The IP has incidentally also come to the notice of Wikiproject:Philosophy [65] as a result of dubious edits to our article on Schopenhauer. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Every time I reply, my words are deleted. What is this? I am asking for fairness.
I did not write the stuff about TEVA. I am not interested in pharmaceuticals.
Why am I not being allowed to even have a fair hearing? This is crazy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk • contribs) 21 February 2014
- The section title "collapsed section" of the talk page of Dextroamphetamine contains the following statement which seems consistent with the conspiracy theories you have been outlining today:
- I am half-Jewish and half-Central European, so the "anti-Semitic" nonsense please do not even initiate with me, Wikipedians of ideological extremism. I can outshine and outgeneral in cerebral dialectics of counter-propaganda programming and deprogramming, generate psychological influence and unleash psy-warfare most of humankind except elite special forces cannot handle. I am speaking to you, the "frequently contributing" dominant minority of Zionist cyber-guerrillas wielding editorial-managerial power, unfortunately endlessly trying to schizophrenically scramble all objectively forthright discussion of any and all "Jewish cultural affairs", as a psy-op military tactic."
- I think you're just falling victim to edit conflicts, that's all. Canterbury Tailtalk 20:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Whaaaaat? Edit conflict my eye. YOU removed a chunk of his words with this edit only just over an hour ago. His editing is problematic, sure, but he was asked a question and was entitled to answer it. I restored it. Moriori (talk) 20:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yup, edit conflict. Took me three tries to get my comment in as I kept getting edit conflicts and mine were disappearing. Yes it looks bad, but edit conflicts can cause that unfortunately. I would never remove someone's comment like that, everyone is entitled to say their piece. Canterbury Tail talk 20:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yup. Edit conflicts do that sometimes. Particularly on busy pages like WP:ANI. Please don't confuse matters with unnecessary accusations. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Whaaaaat? Edit conflict my eye. YOU removed a chunk of his words with this edit only just over an hour ago. His editing is problematic, sure, but he was asked a question and was entitled to answer it. I restored it. Moriori (talk) 20:42, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think you're just falling victim to edit conflicts, that's all. Canterbury Tailtalk 20:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Is this post [66] yours? AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:30, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I am now being subject to DNS attacks and viruses violently. I do not know what is happening but this does not reflect well on Wikipedia. Moriori was honorable enough to fairly and equitably notice the little bit he could of whatever is happening... I am retiring for the moment.
To repeat: it appears as if a complex game of impersonation and sophisticated manipulation, among other things, is operative. I am not a pharmacist.
Wikipedia, sort yourself out. Now I have to get my computer fixed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 21 February 2014
- This looks like a static IP to me. It's been editing Julius Evola since October 2012, a pattern of large additions and deletions of content is constant from the beginning, with the added content being very dense. Sorry, editing about Evola since July 2011.[67] - edits about Special Forces, repeatedly talking about anti-Semitism, it's the same person all along. I think that most of his edits have been reverted as unsourced. I don't believe the statement that he/she didn't write the edit mentioning Teva. I think a nice long block is in order. Dougweller (talk) 21:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
LOL, I have circumvented the cyber-attacks (I shall not mentioned whence derived these missiles), but there is no consistency of subject-matter, no ideational clustering validating any stasis of chronicity. If you look into the I.P.'s past, he/she was advocating pedophilia rights and violent Stalinism one month, and then talking about widely disparate subjects, radical right groups, etc., another: your emotionally-driven campaign to terminate my presence is not juridically substantive.
As my I.P. is bouncy, I suppose you can ban this one I am temporarily on - but one day I shall come back on a stable connection in hardcore university doctorate mode with a credible registered account, and my controversies I fearlessly plunge into I shall not fail to explore: you are merely trying to repressively assign me utlagatus status because I occasionally delve into un-PC topics. No grounds for banning, sorry.
I see many of the actual edits I made have now been summarily deleted. I suppose the judicial lynching is proceeding behind-close-doors appropriately. The truth will always win, sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 17:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, unsourced, incomprehensible, unencyclopedic, essay-like original research will almost always be deleted, as it should. BMK (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Frankly, regardless of any other issues, anyone who writes about "ideational clustering validating [a] stasis of chronicity" deserves to be blocked from Wikipedia (and probably the entire internet) for crimes against the English language. On the plus side, such prolix bollocks is easy enough to spot... AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Prolixity is not an ethical defect. Being a knave for the sake of being a brutal knave bullying others, is. I ask whoever is in power to curtail the endless ad hominem thrust against me by these persons.
Nope. I indicated my deficiency above and agreed to "reform" - now people are merely treating me like a caged beast, picking on me like children. I say: you can ban this I.P., but my drive for truth and fearlessness shall never die; and I shall strive to spread the truth of things to others according to my limits.
I do not know why there is a discussion right now, except for the excessive animosity of one or two individuals. I have agreed to pacifically reform and register, "mechanized", the next time I do so -
Please, study the I.P. history thoroughly, it is INSANE. Obviously not one personality. How can you go from advocating pedophilia (!), Leninist socialism and violent communism to being the Julius Evola apologist extraordinaire? The rationale fails here as a criterion of judgment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 22:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Nope, we've had editors before who are just playing with Wikipedia/us. Dougweller (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah I'm pretty sure they're not here to do anything but entertain themselves. This has to be an act. -- Atama頭 22:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Exactly, the IP's history makes entire sense if all the editor is trying to do is harm the encyclopedia for the lulz. BMK (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Nope, we've had editors before who are just playing with Wikipedia/us. Dougweller (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Please sign your posts. If you've been editing for ten years, as you say you have, you should have learned to do that by now. You type four "tildes" (~~~~) at the end of your posts and the ip address and date comes up automatically. You can create a user identity at any time. Like now. However, like Dougweller, I'm afraid I have to say that I do not find your assertions that you are not the same editor who contributed to Dextroamphetamine credible. The language and the preoccupations are identical. Paul B (talk) 22:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Regarding the edit history of the IP, it doesn't really matter whether the same person is responsible for the 'pedophilia' edits - the fact is that the edits coming from the IP now are entirely incompatible with Wikipedia policy regarding original research. And of course incompatible with any encyclopaedia which had any wish to be comprehensible... AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Well, "counselors", I munificently offer myself up as your scapegoat: ban this I.P. address in utter lunacy animated by nothing but unreasonable personal emotionalism. I can toggle things, learn things, and return in better form one day. Your action will have accomplished nothing. Are any of you even "officers of rank" here? I hardly can imagine the possibility. Your procedural irregularities and lack of professionalism, you have shown the world to your own dishonor. No good-willed person would seek to ban me, perhaps explain the formatting precisions and tiny bits of stylistic regularity to be conformed to, but banning a person out of nowhere?
I have no more words. I am interested if any of you fellows are actual "jurisprudence" figures or "justices", however...
Mock the caged beast - who is the real troll? Yuck it up, real impressive. Karma exists, the world sees your pettiness of spirit and lack of equity.
Oh no, I am not American English by birth, curse my inferior blood! Thus my diction and lexicon and verbose meandering can be dense and difficult and almost unintelligible at times - yet, it is still better to be a good-willed person who lacks rhetorical sophistic skill than a mere amoral rhetorician of a dessicated scholarship. Ban me for a day, a week, over ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, good God what an achievement of heroes you men-folk erected to the God of Victory this day!
- And I thought Abd had some massive posts ... Ravensfire (talk) 22:55, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Wow, I've read a lot on AN/I, angry posts, apologetic posts, accusatory posts but nothing so over-the-top ("the God of Victory"?!). If you are not a troll, well, you have an inflated sense of importance. I think people would be less harsh to you if you accepted some responsibility that what you wrote wasn't appropriate for a public, online encyclopedia along with a knowledge of the Manual of Style and WP guidelines and policies. We're all just editors here, even admins, and a little humility can lead to good-will.
- P.S. I think your densely worded, opinionated prose is more appropriate for a book you might write one day, not WP which is for a general reader with a basic knowledge of English. LizRead! Talk! 23:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
I endorse an indefinite block (or the static-IP equivalent thereof). The contributions are gibberish and many of them, to the extent understandable, are alarming. Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I concur with the above. The individual seems to view reality outside American materialist sensate culture, and thus should be forthwith liquidated. I am contacting the FBI riot squad paramilitaries right now as I type this to make sure this high-risk individual is suitably watched by the governmental sentries and hopefully permanently chained for such irresponsible individuality. In fact, indefinite banning is too weak: sempiternal shall be the sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 20:02, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Block per WP:NOTHERE, please. BMK (talk) 01:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Diannaa and I blocked for 1 year at the same time; Diannaa won. Drmies (talk) 04:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Special thanks go out to Beyond My Ken and AndyTheGrump for assisting with the clean-up. -- Diannaa (talk) 04:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Block per WP:NOTHERE, please. BMK (talk) 01:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Some communication issue?
I know this is known as a dramaboard and I really don't want to cause any. However, I'm not in the habit of asking for admin assistance offline.
Request: Could a genuinely conciliatory admin kindly take a look at the communication issues in my most recent interactions? I'm afraid I've got a bit hot under the collar: this interaction (thoroughly gf no doubt on both sides) to me feels subjectively unfortunate and objectively wrong. Thank you, 86.173.146.3 (talk) 23:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- You'll get a better response if you provide "diffs" (examples) of what you are concerned about and why so they don't have to guess. Are you reporting yourself? It's not clear what the problem is. LizRead! Talk! 23:17, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's a little unfortunate that the IP has felt the need to come here; the interactions have been with me, as far as I'm aware (I haven't looked into any of the IP's history, because there's been no need to, so I'm not aware of any other issues). I think it's more a case of a simple misunderstanding, rather than anything else. The relevant discussion is at User talk:XLinkBot#Massive reversion at Savart wheel, where the bot reverted an addition of a YouTube link as part of an otherwise constructive list of edits by the IP. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, that thread and the related reversions etc. While recognizing that Luke94 intends no harm (gf), for me this has been something of a put down, apparently based on a personal interpretation of a guideline/practice, which seems to me authoritarian and unjustified. Although not key to the page, the implicated link [68] was most certainly a constructive edit for reasons I have explained [69]86.173.146.3 (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm an admin and I'd like to think that I'm generally conciliatory (I try to be at least). I understand that the intent was to improve the Savart wheel article by linking to a video hosted by YouTube that showed such a wheel in action. I understand the motivation behind the action. I believe that the both of you were correct in your arguments, in that our current external links guideline allows for such links under particular circumstances, yet Lukeno94 pointed out that in practice the community has come to dislike links to YouTube from articles. In my experience that is true, and I actually expected the guideline to have been updated but it hasn't
- Yes, that thread and the related reversions etc. While recognizing that Luke94 intends no harm (gf), for me this has been something of a put down, apparently based on a personal interpretation of a guideline/practice, which seems to me authoritarian and unjustified. Although not key to the page, the implicated link [68] was most certainly a constructive edit for reasons I have explained [69]86.173.146.3 (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think that there are two problems here; one is the discrepancy between common practice and our guideline, which should be addressed at WT:EL and possibly may only be resolved with a full request for comments for the community to decide definitively whether or not to outright ban YouTube video links from articles. Until and unless that occurs, the short term solution is to decide whether or not the video is proper to include for that article, which should be decided at the article talk page.
- Thanks for the comprehension of the situation and the informative analysis. Yes, in this case I've it really frustrating. I had no idea that carefully chosen YouTube links were now discouraged. (Fwiw, I really hate conflict with gf editors.) 86.173.146.3 (talk) 23:53, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
- Adding: Running an "anti-vandal" bot can place an editor in a position of real power with respect to other gf editors, including ips. I feel that such power needs to be exercised with special care. Making gf editors feel they're being treated on a par with unconstructive ips can be a real put down (especially when, as in the present case, it's the only feedback you've received for your work). I think anyone running such a bot needs to be aware of such communication issues. In the present case, for example, I was told that the guideline effectively didn't count ("full stop"). Such an argument leaves one wondering how the heck one's supposed to seek guidance for one's editorial decisions. I also found the tone of the comments quite condescending, and the double use of reversions -- one (i.e. just 1RR) by the bot, followed by one (1RR) by the user -- somewhat inappropriate. All told, for this editor at least, not a good experience. 86.173.146.3 (talk) 00:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Adding: I'm also curious to know whether the massive reversion of all my edits (not just the implicated EL) [70] is part of the bot's regular behaviour (perhaps with ips?), or whetrher there is some other technical glitch. 86.173.146.3 (talk) 00:37, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- It is indeed the bot's standard method to "rollback" all edits by the same user in this cycle, as I explained earlier. This is to stop any intermediate edits by the same user from deliberately blocking the reversion. In your case, it unfortunately leads to the removal of a lot of improvements for one bad EL. 1RR is not relevant here (it isn't in force in this article, and reverting once does not an edit war make, despite what your revert's edit summary stated), and I'm not seeing how my edit summaries were condescending; they were short and to the point. What I said about the guideline is also accurate, as Atama confirmed; Wikipedia is a constantly-evolving organism, and this creates some gaps where policies and guidelines do not have the wording to match current practice. I suggest you read User:XLinkBot/FAQ, 86, to see exactly why the bot acts the way it does. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ah, I think the mass reversion was, as I think you recognise, unfortunate here (though of course in practice no more than a minor shock) and I think it called for some apology, however brief. My point about 1RR is that by reverting twice, once with your bot and once as a human user, you were effectively able to put me under 3RR. I cannot accept the argument about the primacy of "standard practice", as that is blatantly unfair to gf users who follow guidelines, while prefering for the most part to stay out of internal Wikipedia discussions. As regards what I perceived as a "condescension", I understand that you do not perceive it in the same way (online communication between people who don't know each other is almost invariably tricky). Fwiw, I'm referring to statements such as I'm not going to click on a YouTube link in an article. Or a Tumblr link in an article. Neither should be there, full stop. This was a carefully selected EL and you weren't prepared to take a moment to look at it, justifying your bot's automated actions on a highly personal interpretation of guidelines/practice for which there is no general consensus. And then you expect me to read the technical blurb for your bot...? Well, actually I'd prefer to try to get some sleep and get my blood pressure back down... 86.173.146.3 (talk) 01:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ah, now I see exactly where most of this confusion has come from. The bot is not mine; I just happen to have its talk page on my watchlist, for reasons that I cannot remember, and I was the first to spot it and respond to the case (I've seen similar issues to this happen before). As I've said several times, I do very much appreciate the work you put into that article, which is why I was equally careful not to hit the revert button when you reverted the bot, but simply removed the offending links, which I removed based on my experience of consensus here. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 01:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you for the kind words Luke. I feel I'm beginning to understand the dynamics of this. Involved individuals apart, I think this discussion has thrown up some general questions:
- Is it right for a bot to remove, by default, a series of obviously constructive contributions?
- Is it acceptable for a bot and its
operator/suser/s to enforce an unofficial interpretation of policy which is not present in the guidelines? - Is it reasonable to expect
operatorsusers of bots such as this one (aimed at preventing unconstructive editing) to take the time examine, at least to some extent, the editorial implications of the issues the bot has detected -- especially after they have been challenged by the contributor -- before insisting on enforcement by repeatedly removing the implicated content?
- Finally, I specifically wish to communicate to Wikipedia/Wikimedia that if this sort of unpleasant situation is an editor's reward for developing a page in this way, then I'm damn glad I've chosen to edit as an ip (thereby making me largely immune to malicious profiling by third parties). 86.173.146.3 (talk) 08:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- A bot cannot distinguish between "good" and "bad" beyond what it is programmed for. In this case, XLinkBot is programmed to deal with links, and nothing else; ClueBot deals with the "regular" vandalism. The reason the anti-vandalism bots work in this way is that it stops any vandalism being missed, or made unrevertable due to deliberate manipulation of edits that prevents the removal. Whilst it might be better for XLinkBot to simply remove the bad links, this is not what it was approved to do. The FAQ that I linked to makes a good and understandable case for why things are done in this way. It is acceptable for a bot to enforce "grey areas", because 99% of the time, an IP or new user linking in a YouTube video is doing so for nefarious reasons (self-promotion, general promotion, general spam, flat-out vandalism, etc). It is not reasonable to expect bot operators to examine everything their bot does; at that point, the bot becomes redundant anyway, and many bot runners are semi-active or focus on keeping their bots going (which, given the mess of code that makes up the backbone of Wikimedia-related sites, is no mean feat). If you were an autoconfirmed user, then the bot would probably not interfere with you, unless your link was totally inappropriate. You can, however, request on the bot's talkpage for your IP address to be whitelisted, in order to stop further issues with this bot - if the bot owner agrees to this. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:21, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- It shoudl also be noted that the vast majority of Youtube links that get put into Wikipedia are copyright violations. This is why they're considered a no-no: they make Wikipedia a party to contributory copyright infringement. Some are good - ones that are, say, uploaded to an "official" channel - but the majority are not, and sometimes it's hard to tell even what really is official or not. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The
operatoruser of the bot twice insisted on reremoving the link in person [71][72] even after I had entered into discussion on the bot's talk page, a) explaining why this is, imo, one of those "good" links that you rightly mention [73] and b) requesting clarification regarding the WP:YOUTUBE guideline which I believe I have followed correctly [74][75]. For the record, I have now also discussed my rationale on the article talk page, explaining why I believe it is a particularly valuable EL [76]. - Imposing personal interpretations of Wikipedia best practice on the basis of personal interpretations such as You tube links should not be included in articles, full stop [77] is I believe "authoritarian" and unhelpful. Refusing to take a moment consider the editorial context [78] (as if the sites linked were somehow beneath the editor's dignity) is I think ungrateful and perhaps (indirectly) insulting to a contributor who has clearly put considerable work into building a small stub based on a single dated source [79] into a rather carefully sourced page [80] regarding a genuinely encyclopedic topic. Is this the sort of feedback one likes to expect when just rounding off two days of work on a serious Wikipedia page? Having had little sleep last night following the displeasure, I am now continuing to insist on these points as I think there are broader implications here for Wikipedia. Is it really such a good idea to discourage and perhaps, ultimately, drive away constructive content contributors by imposing personalized/social interpretations of Wikipedia policy? 86.173.146.3 (talk) 12:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The
- Thank you for the kind words Luke. I feel I'm beginning to understand the dynamics of this. Involved individuals apart, I think this discussion has thrown up some general questions:
- Ah, I think the mass reversion was, as I think you recognise, unfortunate here (though of course in practice no more than a minor shock) and I think it called for some apology, however brief. My point about 1RR is that by reverting twice, once with your bot and once as a human user, you were effectively able to put me under 3RR. I cannot accept the argument about the primacy of "standard practice", as that is blatantly unfair to gf users who follow guidelines, while prefering for the most part to stay out of internal Wikipedia discussions. As regards what I perceived as a "condescension", I understand that you do not perceive it in the same way (online communication between people who don't know each other is almost invariably tricky). Fwiw, I'm referring to statements such as I'm not going to click on a YouTube link in an article. Or a Tumblr link in an article. Neither should be there, full stop. This was a carefully selected EL and you weren't prepared to take a moment to look at it, justifying your bot's automated actions on a highly personal interpretation of guidelines/practice for which there is no general consensus. And then you expect me to read the technical blurb for your bot...? Well, actually I'd prefer to try to get some sleep and get my blood pressure back down... 86.173.146.3 (talk) 01:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Arbitrary break
- Are you simply not reading what I'm writing? I am not the owner of the bot. I have never claimed to be. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:34, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- (no need to shout) I thought that by using the bot you were "operating" it, but I apparently should have used the term "user". Apologies -
the terminology herebot teminology is unfamiliar to me. 86.173.146.3 (talk) 13:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Arbitrary break
A review of the edits indicate that 86 is a new editor who is attempting to improve Wikipedia (it happens). Adding references. Changing wording. Improving it even. Probably makes more useful mainspace edits than this worthless Ent does in a month. Finds a cool (but probably 30 seconds too long) video online that demonstrates to the Wikipedia reader what a Savart wheel looks and sounds like -- and they get this? The instructions atop User talk:XLinkBot clearly say "If you feel your addition was within those policies and guidelines and are Reliable and Verifiable, and do not violate Copyright, you may undo the changes made by XLinkBot." That's the current policy, no matter how many times editors who should know better say "full stop." NE Ent 14:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Do you have anything constructive to add, other than making very sly attacks against me with no basis whatsoever? Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 15:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yea, probably didn't really need to say the last part. Stricken. NE Ent 15:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
For the sake of clarity I should perhaps clarify that I'm not actually a new editor (and I'm not competition here with Ent or anyone else). 86.173.146.3 (talk) 14:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Please review this block
I blocked 174.118.124.76 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) for chopping content repeatedly from Cost of electricity by source; it looked like vandalism and I blocked on that basis. I now see though that they made some kind of garbled reason for removal in the edit summary of their fourth revert, so perhaps this shouldn't be treated as vandalism? On the other hand, they made some rather odd claims at their talk page. I am going to bed and if anyone feels that my block was harsh or that semi-protection would be a better way forward and that the IP user understands how we work, they can unblock without further input from me. Any feedback gratefully received. --John (talk) 00:11, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- IMO, the block was appropriate. Although there may be competence issues involved, the IP's edit history is puzzling—a few edits last year, and now edit-warring and section-blanking. Could be a dynamic IP, a sock or undisclosed COI editing. In any case, 3RR was breached and a one-day block is the standard breather. All the best, Miniapolis 00:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Clearly not vandalism, because they believe there is misinformation in the article, but definitely edit warring. A little more non-templated engagement by established editors prior to escalation would have been nice, but the post-block dialog by John is reasonable... editor indicates they discussed the edit(s) on the "talk back" page but history doesn't indicate any postings to a talk page. I'm off wiki soon myself but if a kind soul wanted to attempt engagement on ip talk page... NE Ent 03:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Disruptive editing at Andrew Wakefield
User:Zackiegirl, see Zackiegirl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), seems to be an SPA account engaged in a combination of edit warring and fringe POV and WP:OR pushing at Andrew Wakefield; may in fact already be in violation of WP:3RR. I believe that a block of some sort is in order. Nsk92 (talk) 03:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- See edit summary: "Corrections to reflect the truth." NE Ent 03:57, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Clear case of someone who's here only to promote a truth of some sort. I was hesitant to push the button, but earlier activism was reverted here. Block per WP:NOTHERE, which in this case also includes edit warring, and since they're essentially an SPA on the vaccine-autism tip I see no reason to give them even more leeway. If Zackiegirl ever wishes to explain and perhaps receive a few pointers, they can place an unblock request since indefinite is not infinite. Drmies (talk) 04:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Nice work Drmies. I have edited that article so I was reluctant to get involved. This account has campaigner written all over it. Not here to improve the encyclopedia. --John (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Would there be any point in blacklisting http://www.wesupportandywakefield.com ? It can serve no useful purpose here. -- Brangifer (talk) 04:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Editing my talk page comments
User:Lightbreather (LB) edited an article talk page comment of mine without permission.[81] Her edit summary was: “Anythingyouwant, I hope you won't mind my anonymizing this for (currently) uninvolved editors' sakes. If so, please revert.” I did mind, and reverted.
A little while later, this editor did it again, but on a much bigger scale.[82] I have not reverted this time, and ask an uninvolved admin to please stop this cycle.
Okay, that's the short version. Now for the longer version, regarding the second (huge) editing of my comments....This kerfuffle involves the article Gun politics in the United States (the "US article") which is a subject of a current ArbCom case (the main subject of the case is the international article Gun control). The US article has a section about people wanting guns to prevent tyranny. LB wanted to prevent that section from including anything about people wanting guns to prevent Nazi-style oppression. So, on January 29, I said that I assumed everyone agreed that the Nazis were tyrannous; to my surprise, LB disagreed.[83] I subsequently mentioned this amazing thing to ArbCom on February 4.[84] Fast forward to today, LB decided over my objections to re-hash the issues that are now before ArbCom (with a decision imminent), and so I obliged.[85] I mentioned the same thing today that I previously mentioned to ArbCom, and LB asked me to delete it from the talk page, and I declined. The discussion is in the link I just gave. So then LB made two successive edits deleting many of my comments. The first edit had this edit summary: "Removing per WP:RPA after other editor refused three requests to remove WP:WIAPA Nazi comparisons." The second edit had this summary: "Restored beginning of sentence lost in removing (three) Nazi comparisons; removed requests (three) to remove Nazi comparisons". I didn't attack LB, and instead invited her to retract her weird previous statement that the Nazis were not tyrannous. Anyway, there you have it. Since my talk page comment got hacked up, I figured it's something that should be mentioned here, even though it's part of an inflamed controversy that is currently before ArbCom.Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think the discussion and my objection speak for themselves. This [86] is what it looked like before I removed, per RPA, Anythingyouwant's remarks, which I first asked him three times to remove. The last part of the discussion is most pertinent (scroll down to the out-dent). There was no reason to bring up my remark - taken out of context - from over three weeks ago, let alone to misrepresent it. I told Anything that, and asked him - three times - to remove those parts of his comments.
- Were the Nazis tyrants? They were sick, twisted mass-murderers, and to lump what they did in with the "general tyranny" (his words, not mine) of King George's taxation without representation or current attempts to pass stronger gun regulations is beyond inappropriate.
- I think it's more than a "kerfuffle" to have someone implying you're a Nazi sympathizer because you don't agree with their ideas of who are tyrants. Lightbreather (talk) 04:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did not accuse you of being a Nazi sympathizer, or anything of the sort. What I said is that you denied the Nazis were tyrannous, which is exactly what you did. Perhaps you did that to gain advantage in a content dispute; that seems much more likely than that you have the least sympathy for Nazis.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't see where Lightbreather denied that the Nazis were "tyrannous" which is a very obscure word alternative to "tyrannical" in any case. I think instead that the editor objected to lumping 21st century U.S. gun control advocates in with the Nazis as "tyrannous", which I believe is a reasonable invocation of Godwin's law. Hammering on about "Nazi this, and Nazi that" in such a discussion seems profoundly unhelpful to me. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Look, I don't like bringing this here, and I don't even like editing an article that has a Nazi angle, legitimate or not. No one (certainly not me) advocated lumping 21st century U.S. gun control advocates in with the Nazis as "tyrannous". What I object to is having my comments edited.Anythingyouwant (talk) 05:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Anything: That makes THREE times you've linked to my remark in thhis discussion alone. Why? Also, I explained then and earlier today why I did not agree with your oversimplified I'm-assuming-everyone-here-agrees-the-Nazis-were-tyrannous argument. And I explained further in my last reply. The Polish doctor who delivered me was a concentration camp survivor, and this conversation is causing me distress. Stop trying to make something distasteful out of what I said to refute your bogus remark of three weeks ago. Lightbreather (talk) 04:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well many of my relatives died in concentration camps. This is a delicate subject. I'm more than happy for you to clarify what you meant, but I did not attack you, and there was no valid reason for you to delete my talk page comments.Anythingyouwant (talk) 05:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- They were personal attacks because there was no valid reason for you to add those comments. Lightbreather (talk) 05:39, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, LB, you started a talk page section today with "Nazi" in your title. And then you edited my talk page comments in that section you started, and falsely accused me of implying that you are a Nazi sympathizer. What I did was comment about the fact that you denied Nazis were "tyrannous". And you then deleted that comment of mine, along with my explanation: "it goes to the relevance of including Nazi material in the tyranny section." We should be able to agree about the simplest and most obvious fact in human history: that the Nazis were tyrants. You could say they were tyrants, but claim that they were completely different from any other tyrants alluded to in that section of the article, and then we could discuss that claim, but instead you still refuse to acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants. It amazes me. In any event, I want my comments restored to that talk page, please.Anythingyouwant (talk) 07:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- They were personal attacks because there was no valid reason for you to add those comments. Lightbreather (talk) 05:39, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well many of my relatives died in concentration camps. This is a delicate subject. I'm more than happy for you to clarify what you meant, but I did not attack you, and there was no valid reason for you to delete my talk page comments.Anythingyouwant (talk) 05:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't see where Lightbreather denied that the Nazis were "tyrannous" which is a very obscure word alternative to "tyrannical" in any case. I think instead that the editor objected to lumping 21st century U.S. gun control advocates in with the Nazis as "tyrannous", which I believe is a reasonable invocation of Godwin's law. Hammering on about "Nazi this, and Nazi that" in such a discussion seems profoundly unhelpful to me. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did not accuse you of being a Nazi sympathizer, or anything of the sort. What I said is that you denied the Nazis were tyrannous, which is exactly what you did. Perhaps you did that to gain advantage in a content dispute; that seems much more likely than that you have the least sympathy for Nazis.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
LB There was no need to 'anonymize' those user names, because the user was discussing their on-wiki !votes. LB, will you agree not to edit other people's comments on Any's talk page in future? Any, if they agree, would that solve this specific ANI request? 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:03, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm confused. Did I edit comments on his talk page? I thought this was about an article talk page. Lightbreather (talk) 05:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, forget that, I misread things. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:12, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- How about agreeing not to edit comments he makes on talk pages in future? If there's something you think is wrong (per policy/guideline), you can always request that someone else deals with them. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- WP:RPA only is a valid action where there are violations that actually meet WP:NPA. I see no such personal attacks (see WP:WIAPA). Once your removal was undone, it fell into WP:BRD mode, and if you honestly felt it was indeed a personal attack, then your correct place for discussion was here to request consensus on whether or not it was a personal attack. DP 09:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I only reverted LB's small removal, not the big one. I brought the matter here instead. I definitely would like to revert, but would like a green light to do so. Before LB deleted my comments, she asked me to do so three times, and I refused all three times, and she went ahead and did it; I don't expect that she'd accept a revert if she wouldn't let me leave the comments in.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Per WP:TPO I think you would be more than justified in restoring your comments. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, I have just now done so.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The "small removal" Anything refers to: I replaced two editors' names with four asterisks each. Since our discussion wasn't about those editors, and since one of those editors is currently before ArbCom and the other one I don't wish to hassle, I put the asterisks in MY (original) comment first... and then, yes, in A's reply - which was a COPY/quote of MY comment, pre-asterisk. And my edit summary explained my action. And when he restored their names I did not complain, even though it looks funny now. My comment with two names asterisked out, followed by his copy of my comment with the names included. Lightbreather (talk) 16:39, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- As for the insulting Lightbreather-denies-that-the-Nazis-were-tyrants comment, which I asked A. to remove three times. I read WP:WIAPA and WP:RPA three times, and I feel they do apply. 1. WIAPA says, "There is no rule that is objective and not open to interpretation on what constitutes a personal attack as opposed to constructive discussion." It goes on to list some things that are never allowed, and ends by saying: "These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done." Guys, A. didn't say Neener-neener at me. He's formed an opinion about me based on a Nazi comment taken out of context - and he's attacking me with it. Lightbreather (talk) 16:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, I'm not attacking you. I have said repeatedly that I do not think you have any sympathy with Nazis, you are not a tyrant, et cetera. What more can I possibly say? Now, perhaps it would be convenient if I were attacking you, because then it would be an easier matter to get me kicked out of Wikipedia, but, as Al Gore says, sometimes the truth is not convenient. Anyway, you have many reasons to be optimistic about the ArbCom case.Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, I have just now done so.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Per WP:TPO I think you would be more than justified in restoring your comments. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I only reverted LB's small removal, not the big one. I brought the matter here instead. I definitely would like to revert, but would like a green light to do so. Before LB deleted my comments, she asked me to do so three times, and I refused all three times, and she went ahead and did it; I don't expect that she'd accept a revert if she wouldn't let me leave the comments in.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Simply refactoring other people's comments are indeed grounds for a good block and its been done before. Why the hypocrisy? Considering she did it AGAIN and heasnt learn.Lihaas (talk) 14:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Is it too late to point out that contributors' personal opinions as to whether the Nazi's were 'tyrants' is of no relevance to article content, and accordingly doesn't belong on the article talk page in the first place? This whole kerfuffle seems to have been started when Anythingyouwant wrote "P.S. I'm assuming everyone here agrees that the Nazis were tyrannous" [87], and Lightbreather responded "I think that statement oversimplifies "tyrannous" for this argument, so for this argument I do not agree". [88] At that point, neither Anythingyouwant nor anyone else asked Lightbreather to expand on her statement, and accordingly, for Anythingyouwant to raise it again almost a month later, as a blanket statement that "You may not think the Nazis were tyrants" looks to me like a petty attempt at point-scoring, if not a personal attack. I note that Anythingyouwant has also chosen to raise this (long after the appropriate period for the submission of evidence) at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control/Workshop, under the heading of 'Vandalism at article talk page' - which looks to me to be (a) forum shopping, (b) an entirely out-of-process attempt to introduce new evidence (the decision is late as it is), and (c) in direct contradiction to WP:VANDAL. I suggest that this thread be closed with an admonishment to Anythingyouwant for misrepresenting Lightbreather's original comment, and an admonishment to Lightbreather for removing the personal attack, rather than reporting the matter for others to deal with. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- And I request that AndyTheGrump be admonished for willfully misrepresenting the facts. His omissions could not be more glaring. For one thing, he is an opposing involved party in the ArbCom case. For another, he knows that ArbCom has instructed: "If something new came up that supports a workshop proposal since the evidence phase closed, we don't need to legalistically bar editors from bringing attention to it, since it would have been rather impossible to bring up there." Additionally, Grump knows that I have been continually objecting to LB's refusal to acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants, including evidence I presented to ArbCom (which Andy also omits). Grump also knows that I have already acknowledged that LB's actions might not rise to the level of vandalism, but that I also contend that inserting "obvious nonsense" is indeed vandalism, which (as Grump knows) is what I have said happened here. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- On second thought, please close this thread. I got what I came for, namely support for restoring my deleted talk page comments. The rest seems to be just an attempt to divert, distract, and discombobulate.Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:59, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- And I request that AndyTheGrump be admonished for willfully misrepresenting the facts. His omissions could not be more glaring. For one thing, he is an opposing involved party in the ArbCom case. For another, he knows that ArbCom has instructed: "If something new came up that supports a workshop proposal since the evidence phase closed, we don't need to legalistically bar editors from bringing attention to it, since it would have been rather impossible to bring up there." Additionally, Grump knows that I have been continually objecting to LB's refusal to acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants, including evidence I presented to ArbCom (which Andy also omits). Grump also knows that I have already acknowledged that LB's actions might not rise to the level of vandalism, but that I also contend that inserting "obvious nonsense" is indeed vandalism, which (as Grump knows) is what I have said happened here. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Is it too late to point out that contributors' personal opinions as to whether the Nazi's were 'tyrants' is of no relevance to article content, and accordingly doesn't belong on the article talk page in the first place? This whole kerfuffle seems to have been started when Anythingyouwant wrote "P.S. I'm assuming everyone here agrees that the Nazis were tyrannous" [87], and Lightbreather responded "I think that statement oversimplifies "tyrannous" for this argument, so for this argument I do not agree". [88] At that point, neither Anythingyouwant nor anyone else asked Lightbreather to expand on her statement, and accordingly, for Anythingyouwant to raise it again almost a month later, as a blanket statement that "You may not think the Nazis were tyrants" looks to me like a petty attempt at point-scoring, if not a personal attack. I note that Anythingyouwant has also chosen to raise this (long after the appropriate period for the submission of evidence) at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control/Workshop, under the heading of 'Vandalism at article talk page' - which looks to me to be (a) forum shopping, (b) an entirely out-of-process attempt to introduce new evidence (the decision is late as it is), and (c) in direct contradiction to WP:VANDAL. I suggest that this thread be closed with an admonishment to Anythingyouwant for misrepresenting Lightbreather's original comment, and an admonishment to Lightbreather for removing the personal attack, rather than reporting the matter for others to deal with. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Which facts have I misrepresented? Diffs please. And the ArbCom workshop phase has been closed for some time. And why the fuck do you think that Lightbreather should be obliged to "acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants"? Since when has participation in Wikipedia been contingent on 'acknowledging' facile oversimplifications of history clearly raised as polemical points by partisan contributors? And no, I see no reason to close this thread until you have provided the evidence to back up your claim that I have been 'misrepresenting facts'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I already specified the many items that you omitted, causing misrepresentation by omission. Moreover, per Arbitrator instruction on 13 February: "I'm expecting to have the draft proposed decision posted for Workshop comments within a week." That has not happened yet, and workshop comments are perfectly appropriate right now, as you yourself have been demonstrating. Lightbreather is not obliged to "acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants", but I
would urgehave urged that she do that, since she has denied it, and since the disputed material does not belong in a section about "tyrants" if the disputed material is not about "tyrants". - I urged LB not to reopen this mess at the article talk page yesterday, and I have urged you to not perpetuate it here. But if you insist, then we can certainly go on and on.Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:11, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I already specified the many items that you omitted, causing misrepresentation by omission. Moreover, per Arbitrator instruction on 13 February: "I'm expecting to have the draft proposed decision posted for Workshop comments within a week." That has not happened yet, and workshop comments are perfectly appropriate right now, as you yourself have been demonstrating. Lightbreather is not obliged to "acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants", but I
- Which facts have I misrepresented? Diffs please. And the ArbCom workshop phase has been closed for some time. And why the fuck do you think that Lightbreather should be obliged to "acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants"? Since when has participation in Wikipedia been contingent on 'acknowledging' facile oversimplifications of history clearly raised as polemical points by partisan contributors? And no, I see no reason to close this thread until you have provided the evidence to back up your claim that I have been 'misrepresenting facts'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can you please explain why you think a contributor's personal opinion of whether Nazis were tyrants is of any relevance to article content? Not that we actually know what Lightbreather's opinion on the matter actually is, since her only comment on the matter seems to be to the effect that she disagreed with the use of the word in one particular context - an entirely reasonable position to take when faced with facile polemics. Evidently you aren't actually interested in her opinion though, since rather than ask for an explanation of why she disagreed - in that context - you chose to misrepresent it at ArbCom as some sort of blanket statement. Which it clearly never was. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I do not care about any editor's personal opinions, except about article content. The disputed material does not belong in a section about "tyrants" if the disputed material is not about "tyrants".
- First, Andy, you say that I think LightBreather is "obliged" to answer me, and then you say that I'm "not actually interested" in any answer. Please get your story straight, or better yet let this matter drop so ArbCom can finish its business. I will say to you what I already said to LB: you have an excellent chance of prevailing at ArbCom, given that LB is not an involved party (and given my own cynicism about that committee).Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:31, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- How exactly is a statement that "I do not care about any editor's personal opinions" compatible with your earlier assertion that "I have been continually objecting to LB's refusal to acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants"? You seem to be insisting on some sort of blanket yes or no answer, rather than actually allowing LightBreather to explain her position. And no, LightBreather's opinion on whether the Nazis were tyrants should be of no relevance to article content - that should be left to the appropriate sources, qualified historians of Nazism. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have already answered. Obviously, if LB does not agree that the Nazis were tyrants for purposes of this Wikipedia article, then that is extremely relevant to whether the disputed material belongs in a section about "tyrants". I have already offered to provide LB with reliable sources proving that they were tyrants (see article talk page).Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:54, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- What is most 'obvious' here is that you took a qualified statement from LightBreather ('I think that statement oversimplifies "tyrannous" for this argument, so for this argument I do not agree') as some sort of generalised statement you could raise later as and when you felt like it, just to make her look bad. Hence her objections. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- To be perfectly honest, I overlooked her statement until I was putting together my evidence for ArbCom. But it speaks for itself, I didn't mischaracterize it, it explains her position, it's a very flawed statement, I have invited her to change it, I have offered to present evidence that the Nazis were tyrants, and it's manifestly absurd to suggest that the Nazis were tyrants except for purposes of this Wikipedia article. Anyway, Andy, I'm not going to clutter up ANI by further responses to you about this.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- What is most 'obvious' here is that you took a qualified statement from LightBreather ('I think that statement oversimplifies "tyrannous" for this argument, so for this argument I do not agree') as some sort of generalised statement you could raise later as and when you felt like it, just to make her look bad. Hence her objections. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have already answered. Obviously, if LB does not agree that the Nazis were tyrants for purposes of this Wikipedia article, then that is extremely relevant to whether the disputed material belongs in a section about "tyrants". I have already offered to provide LB with reliable sources proving that they were tyrants (see article talk page).Anythingyouwant (talk) 18:54, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- How exactly is a statement that "I do not care about any editor's personal opinions" compatible with your earlier assertion that "I have been continually objecting to LB's refusal to acknowledge that the Nazis were tyrants"? You seem to be insisting on some sort of blanket yes or no answer, rather than actually allowing LightBreather to explain her position. And no, LightBreather's opinion on whether the Nazis were tyrants should be of no relevance to article content - that should be left to the appropriate sources, qualified historians of Nazism. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can you please explain why you think a contributor's personal opinion of whether Nazis were tyrants is of any relevance to article content? Not that we actually know what Lightbreather's opinion on the matter actually is, since her only comment on the matter seems to be to the effect that she disagreed with the use of the word in one particular context - an entirely reasonable position to take when faced with facile polemics. Evidently you aren't actually interested in her opinion though, since rather than ask for an explanation of why she disagreed - in that context - you chose to misrepresent it at ArbCom as some sort of blanket statement. Which it clearly never was. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The FIST TIME Lightbreather went to ANI for doing this, she escaped being blocked due to non-consensus. She appears not to have learned. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 20:54, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Possibly relevant ANI thread: [89]AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Re: that ANI, we worked out an agreement on Sue's talk page. Lightbreather (talk) 21:15, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you Andy, but LB and I have that worked out. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 20:32, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Re: that ANI, we worked out an agreement on Sue's talk page. Lightbreather (talk) 21:15, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The first time I went for RPA was the last time I went, and the admin on that case said I had good reason to remove the comments - accusing me of vandalism - and he said the editor who brought it up had a boomerang coming, which I considered, but declined to do. Lightbreather (talk) 21:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Possibly relevant ANI thread: [89]AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
As to the relevance of comparisons between 20th or 21st century gun control and Nazi tyranny, Anythingyouwant said above: " No one (certainly not me) advocated lumping 21st century U.S. gun control advocates in with the Nazis as "tyrannous".
" While I would not conflate the two or indeed see them as at all similar, there is a minority but significant faction in US politics that does see gun control as quite similar to the actions of the Nazi regime, and uses that comparison freely, a fact which may be of relevance to the article. DES(talk) 21:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Replied at user talk.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:17, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
AccuracyObsessed
AccuracyObsessed continues to vandalize two pages by removing documented and cited information. AccuracyObsessed has been warned and will not discuss anything on the talk pages. Schwartzenberg (talk) 04:27, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Schwartzenberg has made inaccurate, poorly sourced postings on two articles that appear to be personal attacks and may be libelous. Please view the pages and stop this user from changing well-documented history.AccuracyObsessed (talk) 04:34, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The information was not poorly sourced. It is in a court record. Furthermore, this subject must be covered accurately.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Schwartzenberg (talk • contribs) 04:37, 22 February 2014
- One of the articles in question is Sheri Fink who won the Pulitzer Prize for her reporting about the medical aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, inherently a controversial story. It seems that there is an active campaign to make Fink look bad, for example, by placing undue weight on her decision to pursue a career in journalism instead of medicine, and accusing her of a lack of journalistic integrity. There are serious WP:BLP concerns, and an active edit war is going on. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Requested prot [90] 88.104.19.233 (talk) 04:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- There's some major WP:NPOV violations in there. I've taken a stab at removing them. --NeilN talk to me 04:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Schwartzenberg, we're not using an advocacy site specifically created to attack the subject as the major source of a "Criticism" section. Find neutral third party sources like newspapers. --NeilN talk to me 05:00, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- As for being "in a court record", remember WP:BLPPRIMARY. - The Bushranger One ping only 07:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- One of the articles in question is Sheri Fink who won the Pulitzer Prize for her reporting about the medical aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, inherently a controversial story. It seems that there is an active campaign to make Fink look bad, for example, by placing undue weight on her decision to pursue a career in journalism instead of medicine, and accusing her of a lack of journalistic integrity. There are serious WP:BLP concerns, and an active edit war is going on. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:45, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- The information was not poorly sourced. It is in a court record. Furthermore, this subject must be covered accurately.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Schwartzenberg (talk • contribs) 04:37, 22 February 2014
- Schwartzenberg has made inaccurate, poorly sourced postings on two articles that appear to be personal attacks and may be libelous. Please view the pages and stop this user from changing well-documented history.AccuracyObsessed (talk) 04:34, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
The discussion page, Talk:Sheri_Fink, seems awfully quiet. I suggest y'all use it before making further changes - discuss things and get consensus. 88.104.19.233 (talk) 05:07, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Poorly sourced contentious material in a BLP needs to be dealt with right way. None of the editors who were not previously in the dispute have reverted or disagreed with each other. --NeilN talk to me 05:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ah, 88.104.19.233... so nice to see you back in the game with your calm, wise advice! Don't ever think you're not missed around here...— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 05:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
This conflict also involves Memorial Medical Center and Hurricane Katrina. I made some comments at the talk page (Talk:Memorial Medical Center and Hurricane Katrina) after Schwartzenberg posted about it (under its former name) at the help desk. Additional eyes would be welcome there, i think. DES (talk) 21:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Tendentious editing by William M. Connolley
Note: I'm trying to follow instructions on how to file this complaint; I have never done this before.
User:William M. Connolley has engaged in tendentious editing at Charles R. Burton.
When the article was created in 2008, Burton was described as an "explorer," which was duly cited to an obituary in the NYT that called him an explorer. Diff. The word stood until WMC removed it on 8 Feb with the edit summary, "rephrase a bit, make his role clear, and not-call him an explorer: it was only 4 years of his life, after all." Diff.
I reverted it about a week later with the summary, "Unquestionably an explorer." Four hours later he reverted my revert (removed the word "explorer" again) with the summary, "no, its *definteily* questionable, cos I questioned it." Diff. The next day I reverted it, adding more RSs that call Burton an explorer and summarizing, "We'll stick with the RSs." Diff.
On 17 Feb., I fixed a few little things in the article and opened a section on the article talk page asking, "Dr. Connolley, please revert your removal of reliably sourced info. Thanks. Yopienso (talk) 20:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)" Diff. I also posted on his own talk page, "Hello. Please revert yourself at Charles R. Burton. The sources are clear that he was an explorer and they should not be removed. Thanks. Yopienso (talk) 20:20, 17 February 2014 (UTC)". Diff.To this he responded, "Stop stalking and get a life William M. Connolley (talk) 22:26, 17 February 2014 (UTC)" Diff.
Then User:Viriditas and User:Jonathan A Jones joined the discussion and in turn restored the word "explorer." You can see the history here.
The crux of my argument is what I posted on WMC's talk page: The article called Burton an explorer since it was created in 2008; the burden of proof to show from RSs that he was not falls on you. We have four reliable sources--including the one you let stand--that call him an explorer. Can you please explain on what basis you assert, "he's still not an explorer, sorry"? Can you please provide a rationale for deleting reliable sources? Thanks. Yopienso (talk) 22:59, 17 February 2014 (UTC)Diff. I follow the logic of his reply, but believe it is a personal interpretation and opinion not allowed at WP, a tertiary encyclopedia. If the sources call Burton an explorer, we have to, too. Diff.
Next, WMC very appropriately moved our discussion to the article talk page. You can follow the short history of the discussion here.
My bottom line is that I feel WMC should restore the word "explorer" as the prime identifier of Burton in the first sentence. I do not wish to engage in an edit war with him so have not restored it myself. Yopienso (talk) 06:26, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I forgot to say that I warned WMC at the article page, which he did not respond to, and on his talk page, which he blanked. Diff. Diff. Yopienso (talk) 06:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- My involvement here was fleeting. I saw the debate, and I thought that the arguments on both sides had some merit, but the strength of the argument probably lay with Yopienso. The discussion on the talk page was largely users talking past each other rather than to each other, though once again Yopienso seemed to be making more of an effort than WMC. I suggested a compromise which I implemented, but it didn't find favour with either side of the debate, and the page returned to an unedifying squabble. As this had exhausted my interest in the subject I left them to it. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:37, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Um -- what I found amazing was the assertion that a person who was only an explorer for four years is thus ineligible to be called an "explorer" at all, but must remain only "British" in the opening sentence of the lead. Collect (talk) 12:36, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- As the article shows, he was a soldier and security contractor for most of his life. So he could be called something based on that. What I found amazing is that someone is deemed notable based on 5 newspaper articles. These sorts of sources aren't going to carefully deal with the issues of calling someone an explorer when that isn't what they did for most of their life but only for a short period. A large published biography would presumably sort the issues out, but the threshold for notability is so low for biographies that these sorts of issues arise in the first place. Second Quantization (talk) 16:57, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what he did most of his life. What matters is what he's notable for. Wallace Stevens spent most of his life working in insurance, but he's famous for being a poet. Anders Breivik spent one day of his life being a mass murderer, but that's what he's famous for, and the only reason he has an article. Paul B (talk) 19:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- And yet the Breivik article doesn't say, "Anders brevik is a mass murder". It says he was the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks. Just like the Burton article should read: [91]. Second Quantization (talk) 03:52, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what he did most of his life. What matters is what he's notable for. Wallace Stevens spent most of his life working in insurance, but he's famous for being a poet. Anders Breivik spent one day of his life being a mass murderer, but that's what he's famous for, and the only reason he has an article. Paul B (talk) 19:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think Burton is properly called an explorer, because that;s where his notability is, and because that's what he as called in the NYT obit.I doubt they would have done an obit on him otherwise, nor we an article. I also think this discussion does not belong here. DGG ( talk ) 17:04, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- It is a content dispute and should not be posted here. I think the word "explorer" is redundant in the first sentence, because it then says he is best known for his part in a expedition, which is what explorers do. So he is an explorer best known for exploring. The article on Anders Breivik does not btw say in the first paragraph that he was a mass murderer, but that he killed people and was convicted of mass murder. TFD (talk) 20:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to all for your comments. I have been instructed that an RfC was in order, not an AN/I. I have posted an RfC to the article talk page. Yopienso (talk) 22:01, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Andy Sellers, BLP violating hoax
Deleted per WP:BOLLOCKS. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:19, 22 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I started looking into this article to find sources but was unable to confirm anything. And when clicking on some of the many wikilinks noticed some were created as fakes; see here the links for the alleged co-bandmates. The band never seemed to exist, the shows, some of which list dozens of cast/cameos never list this person. And most troubling besides outing what is likely a fictionalized real person, we are naming a wife, and children, noting his bisexuality, and his "his battles with depression, alcoholism and cocaine addiction". Sportfan5000 (talk) 09:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Deleted for the time being; I'll have a look now to see if it's complete bollocks or something else. Black Kite (talk) 09:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, that is indeed complete nonsense and will be staying deleted, thanks for reporting it. Black Kite (talk) 09:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Parkfly3 in violation of 3RR
User:Parkfly3 has engaged in an edit war, and has repeatedly deleted flag templates from List of Quebec Nordiques draft picks. Parkfly3 has ignored my warning to not edit war and has violated the three-revert rule.
- Edit #1 - 14:35, 21 February 2014 [92] – Parkfly3 deleted “flags” from table.
- Edit #2 - 18:16, 21 February 2014 [94] – Parkfly3 again deleted “flags” from table.
- - “flags again restored to article per BRD at 19:13 [95]
- - Warning message sent to Parkfly3 at 19:17 (ignored) [96]
- Edit #3 - 19:49, 21 February 2014 [97] - – Parkfly3 again deleted “flags” from table.
User:Parkfly3 is in clear violation of WP:3RR and I request that the account be blocked to prevent further disruptive editing. Dolovis (talk) 16:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- WP:3RR means that you must not make more than 3 reverts in 24 hours and Parkfly3 has only just reached the limit of 3 reverts. So while there is no clear violation there is a tendency to edit warring and any further reverts will be met with a block; but as Parkfly3 has now stopped editing I won't block right now. Dolovis, you might, however, want to take a look at WP:MOSFLAG which says that "flags should never indicate the player's nationality in a non-sporting sense; flags should only indicate the sportsperson's national squad/team or representative nationality" and "where flags are used in a table, it should clearly indicate that they correspond to representative nationality, not legal nationality, if any confusion might arise." (PS: For future reference, the noticeboard for edit warring is thataway.) De728631 (talk) 16:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Use of the flag template at this article appears to comply with WP:MOSFLAG , but in any event, per WP:BRD, Parkfly3 should not edit war, but should rather first seek a consensus on the article's talk page before making controversial edits to articles. Thank you for the direction to the edit warring noticeboard and if the problem continues it will be taken there. Dolovis (talk) 17:47, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's an essay that emphasizes that WP:CONSENSUS is key, and not to break WP:3RR or WP:EW. So, essay or not, it takes policy and makes it easily understandable DP 21:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- Doesn't this belong in WP:ANEW? 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 22:29, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
- As the panda obseves, it's "only an essay" that reflects how WP:CONSENSUS interprets policy. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's an essay that emphasizes that WP:CONSENSUS is key, and not to break WP:3RR or WP:EW. So, essay or not, it takes policy and makes it easily understandable DP 21:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Russell Hantz protection needed from IP hopping disruptor

This article appears to be the latest target for a IP hopping vandal. See the closed AfD history, and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AS92813 show some of the background. Can someone quickly protect the article at least for a few days? The history is quickly filling up with vandalism/reverting. Sportfan5000 (talk) 19:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
coretheapple violating edit warring and 3R rule
Coretheapple again vandalized the Santacon page. This has happened at least 6 times in the last three months. I'm reporting him to admins and requesting to delete his account for repeated violations of Wikipedia terms of service and anti community, antisocial activity. coretheapple is engaged in edit warring and violating the 3 revert rule. He has contempt for the terms and conditions of wikipedia culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C07A:25C0:F108:EB21:FE91:28C7 (talk) 05:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- No violation evident: Coretheapple made one revert today and it was clearly in good faith. His/her edit summary clearly explained the reason for the revert. No sanctions are necessary against that account. —C.Fred (talk) 06:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- [98],[99],[100] Clueless forumshopper. — Writegeist (talk) 08:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm not seeing anything problematic from Coretheapple. 2602 on the other hand... insistent POV-pushing on Santacon, lack of understanding of the edit warring policy, and a lot of hysterical screaming at Coretheapple in a lot of different places. Reyk YO! 08:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well is this a WP:BOOMERANG then? I have always found Core to be a fine and civil editor. Jusdafax 10:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Ajativada
Repeated block evasion by User:Aoclery at Ajativada, using User:174.1.72.182 and newly created account User:Toclery. SPI has been re-opened at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Aoclery, but will probbably take a few weeks. Given the persistence of this user, I'm also posting this notice here in hope of swift action. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:05, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Gareth Griffith-Jones - strongly unwelcoming and insulting edit summaries
NUTHIN' | |
...can't get away with it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 12:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have had a experience that raises concern with User:Gareth Griffith-Jones, who I do not believe I have encountered on Wikipedia previously. In the course of attempting to fix a paragraph in the plot summary section of No Country For Old Men (film) this editor reverted me quite insultingly: blatantly ordering me to "leave it alone" and questioning if I had seen the movie at all. My attempts to discuss this on the editor's Talk page were deleted with the further insult of "patronising drivel". Perhaps he found it too much to reply to my ironic observation that his User page states he is a member of the Wikipedia group the "Kindness Campaign."
A quick look at Griffith-Jones' recent edits shows that I am not the only editor he has insulted just today. Here calls the edits "nonsense" which is a patent violation of the civility pillar. To an editor new to an article, this type of over-the-top insult discourages participation and leads to ownership and stagnation. I ask for justice in the name of those others abused by Griffith-Jones to stop his potential further abuses in the future. It's my strongly held view that corrective measures are in order for Griffith-Jones. Thanks for any consideration you can give this incident, and I have notified this editor of the report here on his Talk page. (I see the notification has been removed within minutes.) Jusdafax 09:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Only talking of the last incident, per se, "nonsense" is not a personal attack, "idiot" is. See the difference? In this case, you can't eat a meal while you are burying a person, can you? You can enjoy a meal during transport, but during the act of burying? That is rather meaningless to state.Arildnordby (talk) 09:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Let's turn it around. With respect, if I were to say your post is nonsense, would you feel insulted? Jusdafax 09:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- No? Why should I? I say dumb things all the time. Don't you?Arildnordby (talk) 09:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- (Grin) Good thing my girlfriend is asleep already, as her comments would be notable. Seriously, it's new users I am concerned about. The IP in question did not deserve that. It was a good faith edit. Jusdafax 09:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- People who make nonsensical comments deserve to have their comments termed nonsense, whether they are new or not. But, he could have said in edit summary "nonsense, didn't eat while burying"Arildnordby (talk) 09:40, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- (Grin) Good thing my girlfriend is asleep already, as her comments would be notable. Seriously, it's new users I am concerned about. The IP in question did not deserve that. It was a good faith edit. Jusdafax 09:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- No? Why should I? I say dumb things all the time. Don't you?Arildnordby (talk) 09:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Let's turn it around. With respect, if I were to say your post is nonsense, would you feel insulted? Jusdafax 09:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Only talking of the last incident, per se, "nonsense" is not a personal attack, "idiot" is. See the difference? In this case, you can't eat a meal while you are burying a person, can you? You can enjoy a meal during transport, but during the act of burying? That is rather meaningless to state.Arildnordby (talk) 09:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Looking through his edit summaries for the past few weeks, he doesn't strike me as unwelcoming and insulting at all. Looks like more or less the average user to me. Bjelleklang - talk 09:32, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing so. Perhaps this is just a blip. I am wondering however if perhaps further back others have observed hostile behavior. I'd like to see an admin issue a warning for the above at the very least. By the way, the editor is not an IP but is an infrequent editor with no user page. Jusdafax 09:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Gareth's one of the good guys. Wikipedia is an extremely frustrating place at times, nobody is immune from being less than courteous at times. There's probably a very good reason for it. I don't see anything worth coming here about, move on.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm glad you think so. However, I find his current disdain and unwillingness to comment with other than insulting edit summaries concerns me, and the oddity of the above juxtaposed with his Talkpage support for the "Kindness Campaign" seems startling. If you don't mind I'd like to see this left up a bit to ascertain if others share my concerns or have had similar experiences. Thanks. Jusdafax 10:22, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should think a bit about good faith here? You say he "blatantly ordered" you. Did he? All I can see is that he wrote "Leave it alone". That would, in a good faith interpretation be a suggestion and an advice, rather than a "blatant order".Arildnordby (talk) 10:25, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no way to define the three words as other than an order, in my view. It has the intention of a chilling effect. And you leave out the rest of the edit summary, which can only be taken in combination with the order as insulting. I think most editors here will agree that the summary is out of line by a good measure. But perhaps I'm wrong. Let's hear from a few others. Jusdafax 10:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've taken a look a further back in his history (covering approx the past 2k edits), and I see absolutely _no_ indication that he is rude or hostile in any way to editors. As there has been several other editors here who seem to disagree with your impression, why not let it rest? Perhaps you _may_ just be wrong here as you wrote above, and interpreted him the wrong way. Bjelleklang - talk 11:19, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no way to define the three words as other than an order, in my view. It has the intention of a chilling effect. And you leave out the rest of the edit summary, which can only be taken in combination with the order as insulting. I think most editors here will agree that the summary is out of line by a good measure. But perhaps I'm wrong. Let's hear from a few others. Jusdafax 10:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should think a bit about good faith here? You say he "blatantly ordered" you. Did he? All I can see is that he wrote "Leave it alone". That would, in a good faith interpretation be a suggestion and an advice, rather than a "blatant order".Arildnordby (talk) 10:25, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm glad you think so. However, I find his current disdain and unwillingness to comment with other than insulting edit summaries concerns me, and the oddity of the above juxtaposed with his Talkpage support for the "Kindness Campaign" seems startling. If you don't mind I'd like to see this left up a bit to ascertain if others share my concerns or have had similar experiences. Thanks. Jusdafax 10:22, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Gareth's one of the good guys. Wikipedia is an extremely frustrating place at times, nobody is immune from being less than courteous at times. There's probably a very good reason for it. I don't see anything worth coming here about, move on.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing so. Perhaps this is just a blip. I am wondering however if perhaps further back others have observed hostile behavior. I'd like to see an admin issue a warning for the above at the very least. By the way, the editor is not an IP but is an infrequent editor with no user page. Jusdafax 09:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've bumped into Gareth a few times while editing. He's an enthusiastic chap, particular about Welsh Rugby Union, and I think he was just trying to ignore the drama, though in his case I would just leave a talk page thread to rot rather than explicitly revert it. If the two of you have a content dispute over No Country for Old Men, then follow the usual steps to resolve it. If you put a suggestion on talk that is ignored, you've then got a stronger right to revert. In any case, this doesn't need administrator action. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- This was no talk page dispute: I would not have brought that here. This is a revert and the comment is in the edit summary, as the link shows. I had worked out a second version of the paragraph after a previous editor had reverted me and we had worked matters out on his talk page. That's how Wikipedia is supposed to operate. Griffith-Jones reverts insultingly, does not discuss, and removes queries on his talk page. And when I see him using what I'd call insulting edit summaries to others right after my experience, I think at the very least a warning is called for. If there is anyone who has seen similar behavior from Griffith-Jones, it becomes a bigger problem. Jusdafax 10:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- If you make an edit, and another editor reverts it, then simply be the better man and take discussion to the talk page. Simples. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- And when you see others getting uncivil treatment in Griffith-Jones' edit summaries, you ask for other eyes at ANI. For the record I believe this is my second filing here in the past five years. Jusdafax 11:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I personally ignore them, remind myself of all the family and real world friends I have, then edit somewhere else. Happy editing. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:03, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- And when you see others getting uncivil treatment in Griffith-Jones' edit summaries, you ask for other eyes at ANI. For the record I believe this is my second filing here in the past five years. Jusdafax 11:20, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- If you make an edit, and another editor reverts it, then simply be the better man and take discussion to the talk page. Simples. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 11:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- His reverts were not insulting. For example, your own edits reduced the quality of the article, on a) Two rooms are connected by an air vent, you do not rent a room connected to an air vent. b) Neither do you un-screw an air vent cover with a dime, you remove the air vent cover. Basically, your edits was not good English (but obviously good faith).Arildnordby (talk) 11:04, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not here to debate the content of my edits, but the manner in which they were reverted and the absolute refusal to discuss them. I think your opinions are now clear, and again, I am asking for a spectrum of views, not a continuing discussion with one or two editors. Thanks. Jusdafax 11:16, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, you do not discuss. You SCREAM, refusing to even consider that "Leave it alone" means other than "blatant order", you DECLARE that this user is "insulting" for saying posts are "nonsense". Basically, you demand that your emotional state should be the highest law on Wikipedia. Discussion is not something you show any interest in.Arildnordby (talk) 11:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not here to debate the content of my edits, but the manner in which they were reverted and the absolute refusal to discuss them. I think your opinions are now clear, and again, I am asking for a spectrum of views, not a continuing discussion with one or two editors. Thanks. Jusdafax 11:16, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- This was no talk page dispute: I would not have brought that here. This is a revert and the comment is in the edit summary, as the link shows. I had worked out a second version of the paragraph after a previous editor had reverted me and we had worked matters out on his talk page. That's how Wikipedia is supposed to operate. Griffith-Jones reverts insultingly, does not discuss, and removes queries on his talk page. And when I see him using what I'd call insulting edit summaries to others right after my experience, I think at the very least a warning is called for. If there is anyone who has seen similar behavior from Griffith-Jones, it becomes a bigger problem. Jusdafax 10:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I can't say I've ever seen Gareth be anything other than amiable in his dealings with other editors. The edit summaries strike me as being concise rather than anything malicious; I don't feel there's a case to answer here. Fraggle81 (talk) 11:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't consider myself particularly thin-skinned and as I note above, I believe this to be only my second filing here in five years. This treatment from Griffith-Jones seemed unusually harsh to me, as I close in on 60k edits. Perhaps I've just been in a anomalously kindly corner of the pedia. Jusdafax 12:04, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Popular pages tool update fail?
From my watchlist:
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London Transport was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject African diaspora was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
- (Mass message log); 21:35 . . Delivery of "Popular pages tool update" to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history was skipped because target was in a namespace that cannot be posted in
Any idea what this might be? I've never seen a message like that before. Adam Cuerden (talk) 10:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- The smart Wikipedians hang at WP:VPT, I'd suggest asking there. NE Ent 11:48, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's a failed message delivery attempted using the new mw:Extension:MassMessage delivery system. Of the targets listed at User talk:Mr.Z-man/labsmove, only one message got through. The user has since delivered the messages via another method. I do not know why this delivery failed. -- Diannaa (talk) 15:16, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you. Ah, well, always kinks in this sort of thing. Probably someone forgot that Wikipedia talk: was as viable of a namespace as User talk or Talk. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is more info at Wikipedia talk:Mass message senders#Undelivered messages - Wikipedia talk: namespace --Jnorton7558 (talk) 18:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you. Ah, well, always kinks in this sort of thing. Probably someone forgot that Wikipedia talk: was as viable of a namespace as User talk or Talk. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Vandalism by multiple IP's
This user is vandalising Wikipedia using diffrent IP's. It is an open SPI, but since it is not helping at the moment, since the user has been vandalisng for a couple of hours now. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bronx24. (t) Josve05a (c) 12:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I see that Edgar181, Acroterion, and my old hero Materialscientist have been handing out blocks left and right. I must be feeling puritanical or, perhaps, I'm compensating for not handing out a civility block, but those edit summaries rubbed me the wrong way and I've revdeleted a whole bunch of them. As Edgar said in protecting one of the targets, "childishness". A range block might be necessary, though I think this is the kind of vandalism that is short-lived. At least, I hope it is. Drmies (talk) 15:42, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Personal attack
Orestes1984 final-warned by the good Drmies, outburst redacted, outstanding content issue will have to be discussed on the talk page. Nothing more to see here, I think. --John (talk) 21:44, 23 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Orestes1984 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) states HiLo48 is "nothing more than an incompetent fuckwit"
I've previously pointed out that per Wikipedia guidelines, comments about other editors are not appropriate for article talk pages. [101]
Full disclosure: you'll want a fresh cup of coffee / tea before reading the long, long thread at Talk:Soccer_in_Australia#In_theory, and it ain't like the other guy was perfect, but we gotta draw the line somewhere, right? NE Ent 14:42, 23 February 2014 (UTC) Editor notified [102] NE Ent 14:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- [ec] I had a half-full cup of rather lukewarm coffee and managed to read most of it. I appreciate your input in the discussion, by the way; it's understandable that few people besides the usual subjects are interested in the matter. I'm a bit loath to block for an insult, though it should be noted that Orestes has a history with HiLo, and that the latter has kept his cool considerably in the recent past. I told Orestes on their talk page that they should either keep their cool or stop editing the page. If any admin things there's enough reason for a block here I won't object, though, again, I don't think one is warranted right now. Any further insults, well, that just wouldn't be good. Drmies (talk) 15:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Guilty as charged... Nothing more to say... Furthermore... To make this even more simple, I do not care either, so do your worst. When editors abuse the system the way HiLo48 does this is worth every minute of the privilege of being sent on a holiday.
Goodbye --Orestes1984 (talk) 15:26, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- You don't need to be sent on a holiday, you can take one yourself. For the record, I see no evidence whatsoever of HiLo abusing anything. (Except that they should really put smaller images on the talk page.) Drmies (talk) 15:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Are you serious or just pissing in my pocket about HiLo48s consistently intolerable behaviour? That is actually quite ridiculous when he has spent years abusing people, goading people and where I've been consistently told to "piss off" "fuck off" been called a "moron", incompetent and etc on more than one occasion over an extended period of time... I've simply had enough of this behaviour and his behaviour in general and I will not colour in between the lines with my thoughts anymore. It will be more than pleasurable to take one for the team for his consistent intolerable behaviour and telling the world what everyone actually thinks about his behaviour OVER YEARS. As I said, guilty as charged and what's more, I don't care... And don't humour me with any more time wasting either.
- Case closed, throw away the key, send me to the naughty corner, whatever it is, just get it over and done with. I have nothing to say that has not abundantly been said before, I'm tired of this. I will not be participating further in this discussion... I am at your pleasure to serve whatever sentence you feel necessary. I do not want nor need any third party defence of my actions either, so everyone else should stay out of this thanks. I will simply not stand by while this editor does not listen to anything anyone says and simply filibusters any useful discussion.
- This is crap and I'm not the problem here beyond my current complete and utter frustration, yep I'll call it for what it is as well crap. I don't need to be told of what I am doing either, don't humour me, don't explain it, I know and what's more I don't care and it's HiLo48s consistent behaviour that his driven me not to care.. with what I do in my life that takes a lot of effort... I know what I've done, I simply DO NOT CARE, don't tell me, Just deal with it... --Orestes1984 (talk) 15:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Personal attacks aside, HiLo's behaviour in that thread is just ridiculous. He's taken one stance and fought tooth and nail, consistently using WP:IDONTLIKEIT as a fall back position to try to discredit those in favour of the move. If this isn't filibustering I don't know what is. (For the record, I'm Australian myself and I too know the game as soccer, it's what I was raised with. However, given my own bias I don't intend on stepping foot in that minefield.) Blackmane (talk) 16:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree, he should have stopped arguing once it was clear his stance had consensus. But given multiple editors vying for the all-important Last Word why single him out as the filibuster? NE Ent 17:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have been wikihounded by HiLo48 and other editors simply for trying to present NPOV which is where all of this nonsense started do I really need difs to state the obvious?
- I can bring a ridiculous amount of good faith edits of mine and others that have been reverted by HiLo48 for what he simply calls "idealogical soccer editors" and "idealogical vandals." It is complete and utter crap that HiLo48 would be defended by any administrator on this page. He has a history over YEARS of filibustering editors on soccer related pages which has led to a point where the article on Soccer in Australia is an absolute joke, and I AM talking about the article AND NOT the talk page... I am just one of a long list of editors he has frustrated to the point where they have either stated things the way they are or given up and left because of the way HiLo48 interacts with other editors where he takes up camp. Lets start here for a revert on an otherwise good faith edit which is just a long list based on a false consensus where the global consensus of Association Football is applicable not to mention HiLo48s ongoing behaviour to insist ALL global articles including articles on international football players of Australian descent be refereed to as soccer players despite the fact that their notability lies almost entirely in nations where the game is called football. This includes players such as Tim Cahill who has played the majority of his football in England and IS more notable as a football players in England and to millions of Europeans than as a soccer player in Australia. HiLo48s attitude towards this IS nothing short of a filibuster to ensure football is only referred to as Australian Rules Football in Australia.
- I have attempted to discuss, perhaps at times, in strongly worded civil language why we have the 'association football global compromise and what many of the issues are here and also how HiLo48 could have issues with his cultural and historical understanding of the sport which may be prohibiting his editing but he simply does not listen. He consistently puts up the front that he does not have to justify anything he states under Wikipedia:BLUE and Wikipedia:I DON'T LIKE IT rather than entering into any form of discussion. If this is not an obvious filibuster I don't know what is. HiLo48 goes a long way to conceal his limited understanding of soccer with what is nothing more than filibustering to ensure that soccer related articles remain in a state of disrepute
- All of this has led to a situation where I simply do not care what happens to me as a user here because I'm that fed up with things I'm just going to say it like it is --Orestes1984 (talk) 18:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- What's funny is, I read the whole damn discussion, including all the IDONTLIKEIT charges (now found here as well), but while it's kind of going around in circles I don't see any evidence of someone "just not liking it". There's argument on both sides, and the circularity is probably due in part because some are not quite clear in what they're arguing, but charges of IDONTLIKEIT are usually a weak cop-out and so they are here. Sorry Blackmane, but you shouldn't confuse obstinacy with fallacy. Drmies (talk) 19:39, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- As I have not read any of the Australian sports material Drmies was kind enough to wade through, and I am not likely to, I'll merely point out that after urging sanctions against HiLo48 and seeing him topic banned for a year at our area of mutual interest at WP:ITN, I came to see him as a valuable contributor. Imperfect though he is, I now defend him, sometimes to my own surprise, in large part because he has learned to be a better Wikipedian over the years, and I wish him the best. Though I don't know Orestes1984, his strong personal insult and subsequent defiant print raving here call for corrective measures, in my view. I find that I have to keep lowering the bar on what is tolerated at Wikipedia, however. Why, just recently I... (fade out) Jusdafax 20:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- All of this has led to a situation where I simply do not care what happens to me as a user here because I'm that fed up with things I'm just going to say it like it is --Orestes1984 (talk) 18:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm saddened by all of this. I was puzzled this morning by Wikipedia telling me that Talk:Soccer in Australia had changed, while I could see no change. I followed a chain of links to find this discussion, which nobody had told me about, but which provided yet another platform for some haters to attack me. I will insist that in recent times I have behaved pretty close to perfectly. I have firmly defended a well established consensus on that page. I have done it repeatedly because challenges to that consensus have been posted repeatedly. Some of those challenges have been pretty silly, and abusive of other editors. I ask the critics, Blackmane in particular, should such material be allowed to remain on Wikipedia, unchallenged? Of course there are also more attacks on me above from Orestes, which again, I've only found by accident. I won't respond to those attacks, but I will ask, does AN/I really have to remain the platform for haters to get yet another chance to abuse others, with no consequence? HiLo48 (talk) 21:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
IP 178.170.111.84
I've been having a dispute with this user concerning some content on the page on Rape in the United States that he/she added yesterday. The content contained three statements, two of which are not supported by the sources cited. I temporarily removed the content and requested that we discuss the matter on the talk page before it is added back, but the user has insisted on adding it back with only minor edits that do not address the concerns that I've raised.
Also, the third claim that the user makes is that 21.8% of rapes of women are gang rapes. Upon determining the study that this number came from, I was able to verify that it is substantiated by research. However, there is other research, specifically from the National Crime Victimization Survey, which found that only 6.8% of rapes are gang rapes. I added additional content to clarify that there is a discrepancy between the two major government studies, including the lower 6.8% number that I found in the NCVS as well as the higher 21.8% that the user introduced. The user has insisted that this content should be removed on the grounds that the NCVS data is not mentioned in a certain book and that the user has a "feeling that [I am] misinterpreting it." The user seems to think that a well-known and well-respected government survey can be dismissed simply because a book of his/her choosing does not mention it and has declined to provide any explanation for how he/she feels that I am misrepresenting the data. The user's objections to my addition seem baseless.
I believe it would be helpful to have an administrator get involved here to assist in resolving this dispute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DGAgainstDV (talk • contribs) 22:43, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am using high quality data from the National Research Council, US Justice Department, United Nations, 2013 academic books etc. I have even provided other references that support the interpretations. On the other hand DGAgainstDV uses personal interpretations of primary data that the National Research Council indicated was unreliable. Basically DGAgainstDV thinks the page belongs to him, rather than the public.178.170.111.84 (talk) 23:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Old-fashioned edit war between these two editors. If they're not both blocked for edit-warring, it might be a good idea to lock the page for a while until they can come to some cooperative agreement. BMK (talk) 23:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Also, to DGAgainstDV - admins do not decide content disputes, only behavioral ones. Content disputes get decided by discussion and consensus between interested editors, but admins can certainly look at the behavior of all editors and issue warnings or blocks based on it. So, if you and IP 178 don't want to be hammered, I suggest you find a way to come to some reasonable compromise. (I speak from hard experience.) BMK (talk) 23:54, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Old-fashioned edit war between these two editors. If they're not both blocked for edit-warring, it might be a good idea to lock the page for a while until they can come to some cooperative agreement. BMK (talk) 23:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Problems with User:50.157.141.113
IP WARNED | |
Diannaa left a mesige on the Ip talk page warning about his recent uncivil actions (non-admin closure) Jeffrd10 (talk) 15:55, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think an admin needs to speak with User:50.157.141.113. I left a polite message regarding WP:V/WP:NOR on their talk page, and the editor responded with an extremely abusive message. I attempted to explain that incivility like this is not permitted, and can result in blocking, and the editor responded with an even more abusive message, and stated that he/she intended to engage in sockpuppetry if blocked. Nightscream (talk) 12:41, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Pointy behaviour from Kwamikagami
NO ACTION | |
It doesn't look like any warnings or sanctions need to be given out here, so there isn't any more reason to keep this thread open. Further discussion on what to do about the template and the MoS should continue on the appropriate talk pages. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 07:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could someone tell Kwamikagami (talk · contribs) to stop his pointy behaviour?
On February 2, Kwamikagami made a series of edits which broke {{val}}. These were reverted, and {{val}} TE-protected. After it was TE-protected, Kwamikagami fork {{val}} into {{val2}}, and went on an AWB spree to replace the use of {{val}} in articles by {{val2}}. {{Val2}} was nominated for deletion pretty much right then and there, but he kept at it.
A side-discussion and edit war occured on WP:MOSNUM, mostly concerning the alignment of asymmetrical uncertainties (should the uncertainties in 1.00+0.11
−0.99 be aligned or not), and fought to introduce {{val2}} as a legit alternative to {{val}}. There is currently an RfC on that (Template talk:Val#RfC).
He has a very long history of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. Admin Callanecc warned him for his edit warring on MOSNUM [103]. Kwamikagami re-edited the MOSNUM, and Callanec gave him two changes to self-revert [104] [105], but he didn't.
Admin Mr. Stradivarius closed the {{val2}} deletion discussion and deleted/moved it to the sandbox. where before Kwamikagami's was to use AWB to convert {{val}} to {{val2}}, now he's going on an AWB rampage to change the use of {{val}} to {{+-}} [e.g. [106]], claiming "MOS compliance". This is pointy behaviour of the highest order, and makes it a pain in the ass to maintain articles because whenever the RfC on val will close, we'll have to either go through Kwamikagami's edit history and mass revert him, or go on an AWB spree of our own to undo the damage.
Warn him, block him, I don't care, but please do something.
Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 14:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- To sum up: I reverted *my own edits* resulting in no net change to the articles.
- I had made a template change (from {{±}} to {{val2}}) to some articles I had been editing, a change for efficiency that had no effect on the formatting, which was already compliant with the MOS. (Cf. my initial change[107] with the partial self-revert Headbomb linked to above.[108] The restored part is where the later change to {{val}} had broken the formatting.) Headbomb got all upset, and had the template {{val2}} replaced with another, {{val}}, which was similar but resulted in the formatting of those articles no longer being compliant with the MOS, and frankly an eyesore. I then reverted my own edits so that the article format was once again compliant with the MOS, as it had been for years, resulting in no net change except for an invisible increase in the use of the template that Headbomb favors, as I only partially reverted myself. The end result is that, for the point Headbomb is contesting, the articles look now exactly as they did before I made the edits that Headbomb initially objected to. I have not done this to the articles Headbomb's been involved with. Perhaps Headbomb should be warned or blocked for making frivolous charges?
- As for the change at MOSNUM, that's a warning to our editors that the template recommended to produce the recommended formatting does not actually produce the recommended formatting. Several admins have noted that the discrepancy is problematic. I am amenable to instead tagging the claim as 'dubious' or to any wording that any editor might think is better than my own, but no-one has bothered, nor has anyone seen fit to revert it. I fail to see how that's a problem.
- Headbomb's put a lot of work into the template {{val}}, and it appears he's quite sensitive about it, to the point that he's been demanding that the MOS be changed to comply with his template, and that {{±}}, which is used in 25 times as many articles for the format in question, also be changed to match, rather than allowing even the *option* of user choice in the matter. He's welcome to his opinion, but he hardly has reason to get upset if I disagree. (As does nearly everyone else, for example an opinion that was just posted.[109]) — kwami (talk) 14:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Question: Aren't most templates and important functions supposed to be able to be typed on a standard engligh keyboard? How do you expect most users to type ± often? Hasteur (talk) 18:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
{{+-}}
,{{-+}}
and{{plusminus}}
redirect to it. [110] — Lfdder (talk) 18:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC)- Shift+alt/option+= on a standard Mac keyboard will do it without hassle. The somewhat more esoteric code on Windows is alt+(on the right-hand number pad) 241. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 08:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Question: Aren't most templates and important functions supposed to be able to be typed on a standard engligh keyboard? How do you expect most users to type ± often? Hasteur (talk) 18:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- The pages that Kwami edited with AWB are ones that I switched from {{val2}} to {{val}} as part of my close of the TfD discussion yesterday. Given that Kwami was warned by Callannec for edit warring at the MOS on the 13th, it seems poor form to continue the same dispute by switching these pages to a different template. This should be settled at Template talk:Val, where there is already an RfC underway. If Kwami is willing to do that without further edit warring, then I don't think there is a need for any sanctions here.
On an unrelated note, it would have been nice to have been notified about this discussion; it's a good job I decided to browse ANI this morning, because I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. Callanecc would have probably appreciated a ping as well. Also, "Admin Mr. Stradivarius" sounds far too formal. Just "Mr. Stradivarius" or "Strad" is fine. Or if you really have to put "admin" in there, I'd prefer that you at least make it "Admin, MedCom member, Lua coder and all-round nice guy Mr. Stradivarius". ;) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 00:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think you're confused. He changed instances of val that used to be ± before he'd swapped in val2 back to ±. That seems perfectly legitimate to me. — Lfdder (talk) 00:34, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I fail to see how reverting my own edits, because they fail to conform to the MOS, can be considered a problem. Headbomb did not like my creation of the template val2, and it was removed. I then undid my edits that used the now-defunct template. There is no edit war here. Based on your closure summary, I took your edits as a formality in retiring val2, not as a decision to push Headbomb's formatting, which had never appeared on these articles, against the MOS and the majority of editors who have commented. A neutral edit on your part would have been to return the articles to what they had been before I had changed them to the val2 template, and as part of assuming good faith, I assumed that that complications had simply not occurred to you. The alternative would be that you had joined in on one side of a debate that you had resolved to stay neutral of. — kwami (talk) 07:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Kwamikagami: I see - if the pages were previously using ± and not val, then that is certainly less objectionable. Of course, I assumed that val2 should simply be replaced with val, as it was a direct alternative. However, the best way to resolve this is through discussion, rather than switching articles from one formatting to the other. As there is an ongoing dispute over whether or not to use a monospace font in number formatting of this sort, it would make sense to leave all formatting of that kind alone until the dispute is resolved. Anything that switches one format to another, like converting val to ±, or editing the templates involved, is going to sour the atmosphere and make it that much harder to resolve things through calm and focused discussion. Your edits may not have broken the letter of the edit warring policy, but to abide by its spirit I think discussing those edits first would have been a better move. — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 04:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're exactly right: We should not go around changing the formatting while it's under discussion. However, *I* did not change the formatting, *you* did! — kwami (talk) 04:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- As I said, I assumed that val2 should be changed to val without being aware that the pages were previously formatted using ±. My edits to those articles were to prevent the red text Template:Val2 from appearing where the number should be, which is what would have happened otherwise after I moved val2 to Template:Val/sandbox2 without a redirect. If I had realised that the pages were formatted with ± previously, I probably would have returned them to that state instead. However, the problem here is not as simple as just a mistake in my close that your edits fixed; you have seen for yourself how Headbomb reacted when you moved the pages back to ±. My point is that the less drama-inducing course of action would have been to discuss the edits rather than revert them. I would have been happy to move them back to ± myself if you had let me know of my mistake on my talk page. In any case, we shouldn't dwell on this too much, as it is diverting our attention from resolving the main dispute. It would be best to focus our effort on Template talk:Val so that this can be dealt with definitively. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're exactly right: We should not go around changing the formatting while it's under discussion. However, *I* did not change the formatting, *you* did! — kwami (talk) 04:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Kwamikagami: I see - if the pages were previously using ± and not val, then that is certainly less objectionable. Of course, I assumed that val2 should simply be replaced with val, as it was a direct alternative. However, the best way to resolve this is through discussion, rather than switching articles from one formatting to the other. As there is an ongoing dispute over whether or not to use a monospace font in number formatting of this sort, it would make sense to leave all formatting of that kind alone until the dispute is resolved. Anything that switches one format to another, like converting val to ±, or editing the templates involved, is going to sour the atmosphere and make it that much harder to resolve things through calm and focused discussion. Your edits may not have broken the letter of the edit warring policy, but to abide by its spirit I think discussing those edits first would have been a better move. — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 04:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
And he's still at it [111] on MOSNUM. How much warning does one need before they start heeding them? Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 19:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe if we whip him? — Lfdder (talk) 22:14, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Lfdder: Please, let's keep this discussion focused on how to resolve the dispute. Suggestions like this are not helpful. — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 04:04, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Really, Headbomb? We make a false statement on the MOS, and we can't tag it as a false statement while we discuss what to do about it? That's ludicrous. — kwami (talk) 04:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no 'false statement' and there was already a note that this was under discussion. The dubious tag is just there because val doesn't conform to your personal tastes. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 06:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's true that the {{dubious}} template is redundant to the existing note - how about replacing them both with {{under discussion-inline}}? — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 06:59, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- It sounds like something that you should discuss over there. If kwami isn't getting warned, blocked (or whipped), this thread should be closed. — Lfdder (talk) 21:02, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's a good point, and I agree. If the tag really needs to be discussed, then it can be done at WT:MOSNUM, although personally I would concentrate on the main dispute rather than worrying about the tag. And with that we have run out of reasons to keep this thread open any longer, so I'll go ahead and close it. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 07:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- It sounds like something that you should discuss over there. If kwami isn't getting warned, blocked (or whipped), this thread should be closed. — Lfdder (talk) 21:02, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's true that the {{dubious}} template is redundant to the existing note - how about replacing them both with {{under discussion-inline}}? — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 06:59, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no 'false statement' and there was already a note that this was under discussion. The dubious tag is just there because val doesn't conform to your personal tastes. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 06:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- It seems reasonable to me to put a tag on the disputed text in the MOS, although in my experience discussion on the talk page without tagging is more common. If the statement must be tagged, might I suggest {{under discussion-inline}} as an alternative to {{dubious}}? I think it fits the context of the MOS example better. — Mr. Stradivarius♪ talk ♪ 05:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cecil Jay Roberts
AfD closed as delete. JohnCD (talk) 18:30, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could an admin please rule on this contentious AFD. There appears to be a clear consensus, and closing it would put an end to all of the unruly behavior happening there. Best.4meter4 (talk) 22:32, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am sorry that you feel that somebody's state of mind and health is unruly behavior!Cowhen1966 (talk) 23:15, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- What does anyone's health have to do with the notability of an article's subject? Wikipedia is not therapy, and we don't keep articles about non-notable people because of outside factors. BMK (talk) 00:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- please do not turn this into another AFD discussion? This is not what my complaint is about. And STOP talking about my health as if bullying does not affect ones health. If you cared to read my complaint you would see what this is about. This is not an AFD discussion pageCowhen1966 (talk) 01:01, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- This entry is about the AfD discussion. As long as you make responses which seem to be non sequitors, people are going to wonder what the heck you're talking about.
(Also, please start a new comment on a new line, and indent using colons. One colon indents one tab, two colons indents 2 tabs, etc. By starting your new comment right behind the previous one, it does not start on a new line. By not indenting, all of your comments start at the left edge, which makes it hard to follow the thread of the discussion.)
Finally, it was you, in your first comment here, who mentioned your health. If you don't want something discussed, don't bring it up in conversation. BMK (talk) 01:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Again thanks BMK. Nice discussion on bullyingCowhen1966 (talk) 04:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- This entry is about the AfD discussion. As long as you make responses which seem to be non sequitors, people are going to wonder what the heck you're talking about.
While I appreciate that intervention has occurred in relationship to User:Cowhen1966 directly, I would like to point out that no admin has addressed my original concern/comment. Best.4meter4 (talk) 04:11, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- AfDs are given a minimum of 7 days. By the time of the OP, the AfD had only been open for 6 days. An extra couple of days isn't going to hurt things or change the outcome. 24.149.117.220 (talk) 04:57, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Bigpoliticsfan yet again
Despite twice being the subject of recent ANI threads (19th Jan [112] 18th Feb [113]) it seems that Bigpoliticsfan has totally failed to take note of what has been said regarding inappropriate speedy deletion and similar issues. Bigpoliticsfan has just nominated the Tommy Oliver article for speedy deletion as CSD 11 "obviously invented", despite the article being ten years old, with multiple contributors and multiple cited sources. [114] - an utterly ridiciulous nomination, and one that I frankly find incomprehensible. The problem isn't just with speedy deletion nominations either - Bigpoliticsfan has also just tagged our article on Alison Lundergan Grimes with {{lead rewrite}}, {{lead too long}}, {{peacock}} and {{recentism}} tags for no legitimate reason whatsoever, as a cursory inspection of the article will show. I raised these edits at User talk:Bigpoliticsfan, but as usual, the response was a vague apology with no real explanation, and the same old promises that litter the talk page for every prior complaint. (see also this ridiculous tag-fest for another example of cluelessness [115]) It seems self-evident to me that Bigpoliticsfan simply lacks the competence to edit Wikipedia, and rather than waste further time with another round of apologies and worthless promises, we should block this time-wasting 'contributor' indefinitely. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:07, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree that we definitely have a problem, having looked at their last 40 or so edits I see several problems in addition to the above - this probably shouldn't have been wholesale reverted, at least without a better edit summary, I can't see how the lead is too long in this and I have my doubts about some of the other tags, here the pages do exist, here it did open in 1900 and the edit summary is, at best, unclear, similarly here, I've no idea what the editor intended but it wasn't vandalism here and although possible inappropriate it wasn't vandalism here. That's a disturbing high percentage of problematic edits, especially given the previous discussions. I would be interested in their response - hopefully longer than their last one here - before proceeding further. Dpmuk (talk) 03:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Look, the main content of Tommy Oliver comes under the heading "Fictional character history". Fiction! Fiction is obviously invented, that's what makes it fiction, geddit? No? Oh well. And Alison Lundergan Grimes, well, er, I give up. Looks like a pattern of gross, energetic and time-wasting incompetence. -- Hoary (talk) 11:06, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've only had one "interaction" with the editor. I noticed this edit described in the edit summary as "Rv factual errors." However:
- It wasn't a factual error, in fact the edit being discussed was correcting an error
- Bigpoliticsfan didn't revert, but (incorrectly) removed the entire entry
- I asked the editor User_talk:Bigpoliticsfan#Recent_edit for an explanation, but was ignored. In light of other observations, this seems to fit a pattern of an editor who at best is sloppy.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:02, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- "In light of other observations, this seems to fit a pattern of an editor who at best is sloppy." My thoughts exactly. Based on warnings on their user talk page, Bigpoliticsfan has repeatedly jumped into one area or another and moved quickly and recklessly, in such a manner as to inadvertently cause disruption. From adding speculative information before it could be sourced, to asking for page protection when it wasn't needed, to making comments at WP:RFPP when they shouldn't be (non-admin comments are generally discouraged), to making "drive-by" good article nominations, to tagging BLPs for BLPPROD deletion when they already had references, to inappropriately tagging CSDs, and then most recently for becoming an anti-vandal but reverting people mistakenly, removing information accidentally, and calling good faith edits vandalism.
- I really appreciate the enthusiasm of Bigpoliticsfan, their good faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, and their willingness to admit that they made mistakes. But how many times can an editor say that they're going to be more careful before we stop believing them? I wish there was a technical way to force this editor to slow down, because I feel like if there was, they could be a net benefit. But in the absence of such tools, I think that this editor needs to make a dramatic behavioral change or we can't allow them to participate here anymore. Even good faith efforts can't be allowed when they accidentally cause disruption over and over again. This editor has been here for 8 months, has been warned repeatedly, has been to ANI repeatedly, and hasn't shown any sign that they have changed. Even if they stop this anti-vandal patrolling, I'm afraid they'll just move to another area where they will make mistakes and cause problems, as that has been their history thus far. -- Atama頭 16:47, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'd be open to a request to try mentorship.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I really appreciate the enthusiasm of Bigpoliticsfan, their good faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, and their willingness to admit that they made mistakes. But how many times can an editor say that they're going to be more careful before we stop believing them? I wish there was a technical way to force this editor to slow down, because I feel like if there was, they could be a net benefit. But in the absence of such tools, I think that this editor needs to make a dramatic behavioral change or we can't allow them to participate here anymore. Even good faith efforts can't be allowed when they accidentally cause disruption over and over again. This editor has been here for 8 months, has been warned repeatedly, has been to ANI repeatedly, and hasn't shown any sign that they have changed. Even if they stop this anti-vandal patrolling, I'm afraid they'll just move to another area where they will make mistakes and cause problems, as that has been their history thus far. -- Atama頭 16:47, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
UBM / 149.254.*.*
Hi.
I am not sure if I should report this to WP:RPP, WP:ANEW or WP:AIV but this is definitely disruptive editing.
UBM is a dab page that disambiguates between UBM plc and United Beach Missions. Now, United Beach Missions is deleted sometimes in 2011, so the proper action is to convert the dab page to a redirect to the only existing item, UBM plc. The problem is a guest user from the IP range of 149.254.0.0 reverting the change on the pretext that he thinks the deletion of United Beach Missions was "unjustified". Seems to me a sign of being a fan of United Beach Missions, or something to that effect, who tries to maintain vestiges of a deleted subject in Wikipedia.
Nevertheless, justified or not, keeping a red in disambiguation page serves no purpose. (Yes, having red links are allowed under certain conditions such as the prospect having a notable article, but I am not sure it has merit here.) Please advise.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 23:57, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, looks like Barek redirected the page, it violates Wikipedia:DAB. Epicgenius (talk) 02:21, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- And next time, WP:ANEW is the best place to put reports of edit-warring like this (though it didn't break 3 revert rule just yet — the talk page should have been used instead). Epicgenius (talk) 02:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Er... are you referring to a talk page that he does not see due to his IP constantly changing? Look, you are more than welcome to correct me, but the last two times that I did it, it felt like such a waste of time. I ended up reporting them anyway. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 02:42, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Not a user talk page (I should have been more clear), but the page's talk page. A referral to the talk page can be in one edit summary, and if the IP user doesn't use the talk page and continues reverting after three reverts, then they should be reported to ANEW. Epicgenius (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Er... are you referring to a talk page that he does not see due to his IP constantly changing? Look, you are more than welcome to correct me, but the last two times that I did it, it felt like such a waste of time. I ended up reporting them anyway. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 02:42, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- The IP is back today, so I have protected the page for a week and will watch-list. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Slanderous vandalism at Nigella Lawson
REVISION DELETED | |
DangerousPanda Deleted 2 Slanderous On Nigella Lawson(non-admin closure) Jeffrd10 (talk) 13:58, 24 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I have just reverted some really nasty vandalism at the Nigella Lawson article. I think it should be removed from the history too. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:04, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I believe I REVDEL'd two edits correctly DP 09:11, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks! Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:07, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
IP 71.23.178.214
I've blocked 71.23.178.214 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) for repeatedly violating consensus by putting the template {{CongLinks}} into "Further reading", rather than the "External links" section where it belongs, mostly with comment "dmoz". Further thought suggests that, since I was in favor of deletion of CongLinks, I might be considered "involved". Since this covers over 100 edits in the past week, and blocks of 15 per hour, I think immediate action is required.
As I'm not on very often, I won't take offense if others revert this action. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 12:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I view this block as preventive, since the IP from Chicago posted a statement on Ronz' talk page about how consensus has not been reached on the CongLinks template. To me, this seemed to be a statement of intent to continue pushing the CongLinks template into "Further reading", which would be disruptive. At Template talk:CongLinks#CongLinks is not 'Further reading', the IP and I were going back and forth over the issue, with Ronz weighing in with me against the IP to make it two against one. Note that the IP's arguments were all over the map rather than focusing on what should go in the "External links" section. Arthur Rubin recently offered his CongLinks-as-external-links view to make it three against one.
- The IP was carrying out the intended changes hidden under the guise of "dmoz" edit summaries, for instance here, so that makes this block appropriate. We need to get a statement from the IP recognizing that consensus is against CongLinks in "Further reading". I recommend that such a statement be requested as a condition of unblock. Binksternet (talk) 15:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Disruptive editing by User:Anarchistdy
Could somebody please block Anarchistdy (talk · contribs)? This editor has been edit-warring at Rosie Huntington-Whiteley to advertise someone's funeral (example), in spite of having been repeatedly warned on their talk page, and has just left a pile of trolling on my talk page. Toccata quarta (talk) 15:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I was puzzled at first, trying to figure out what the deal was with the funeral announcement. But then I realized that it was an attempt to use text from an obituary as a source to support information about the subject's grandmother (to support information that was already present in the article). So I don't see it as disruptive editing or vandalism, and while I understand why you'd leave a disruptive editing notice (because it's puzzling behavior) I don't think the template you left was appropriate. The responding template left on your user talk page was poor communication, but I see it as a tit-for-tat response showing that the template you left was inappropriate.
- The edit-warring is not ideal behavior, but the editor hasn't violated 3RR (in fact, I count a total of 2 reverts in a 24-hour period there, which isn't particularly excessive). And at least one of those reverts is done in an appeal to WP:BLP because they dispute that the ethnicity of the subject's grandmother is verified by a reliable source. The best course of action is to take this dispute to a discussion, either at the editor's talk page or (ideally) at the article talk page, something that you have failed to do. You deserve a trout at the least for reverting, leaving a template, then taking the issue all the way to ANI without once even attempting to actually talk to the other person like a human being first. -- Atama頭 18:04, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- You are joking, right? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to advertise funerals. The editor had been warned a few weeks ago regarding the same issue, as you can see on their talk. Toccata quarta (talk) 19:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's hardly "advertising" a funeral. The funeral took place in November 2012, well over a year ago. It was, however, an inappropriate source (a forum on Google Groups). Voceditenore (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, I'm not joking. The funeral wasn't a random person's funeral, it was a funeral for the subject's grandmother. And this isn't even a non sequitur, it was being used as a reference for information that already existed in the article that mentioned her grandmother. I'm not arguing that the reference is appropriate, nor am I arguing that the format (especially the inclusion of the entire transcript) was done correctly. But it's not disruptive editing, or spamming, or anything else that you're alleging. The fact that you hadn't taken the time to verify this before making an accusation is bad enough, but the fact that you've dismissed the explanation and asked whether I'm serious is worse. You need to collaborate with other editors, and you cannot communicate with people exclusively through edit summaries, templates, and noticeboards. Communication, collaboration, and consensus is the foundation of this encyclopedia. Not to sound preachy, but really these are fundamentals and it's easy to lose track of them when you're involved in a dispute, but it's important that you at least make the effort to communicate before bringing this to administrators to enforce conduct policies. -- Atama頭 20:20, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Also, since it hasn't been said before, falsely accusing people of vandalism is itself disruption, so you need to take more care next time before leaving vandalism templates on another editor's talk page. -- Atama頭 20:35, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's hardly "advertising" a funeral. The funeral took place in November 2012, well over a year ago. It was, however, an inappropriate source (a forum on Google Groups). Voceditenore (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- You are joking, right? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to advertise funerals. The editor had been warned a few weeks ago regarding the same issue, as you can see on their talk. Toccata quarta (talk) 19:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Iraag
Iraag has been indef'd. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Could an Admin please block Iraag (talk · contribs). He has twice nominated Jeffrey Altheer for Speedy Deletion when it's not eligible as I've explained to him already and posted a fake block notice on my Talk page. Does not have the competence to be here. JMHamo (talk) 16:12, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- With the reference to JMHamo (talk·contribs). I apologize if I've committed a mistake. But one thing I would like to mention that the article Jeffrey Altheer, which I nominated for speedy deletion does not have sufficient contents. Before blocking me please review the Jeffrey Altheer article and if I've violated any wikipedia policy then do block me. Iraag (talk) 16:53, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- GiantSnowman, it didn't come here very quickly in relation to how quickly the user posts. Iraag's machine-gun speed editing, crazed ANI nominations,[116] strange templates on userpages (especially this one), strange speedy tags (especially this one) and generally excessive postings on usertalk pages are disruptive and either trollish or (more likely) incompetent. And what's this, a threat of further template harassment.. ? I'm not sure. Here he asks five different users in the space of five minutes to create the same article for him: [117][118][119][120][121]. I've merely dipped a toe in the contributions. If anybody can persuade the user to type less fast and think twice before hitting save, maybe they can learn, but I'm frankly tempted to block. What do you think should be done, GiantSnowman — mentoring? Bishonen talk 22:12, 24 February 2014 (UTC).
- I'll add a bit from recent rather typical post, one of several on AndyTheGrump's talkpage: "It's like you are jealous with writing of my articles as you have restored all many articles and even nominated some for speedy deletion. Please don't forget you are only a Admin not the developer or the owner of Wikipedia." If nobody has any objection or anything else to suggest, I do intend to block, even though I believe they mean well. Competence is required. Bishonentalk 08:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC).
- Mentoring could be an option - though I don't have the time to do so - but failing that, a CIR block may well be warranted. GiantSnowman 12:58, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Apart from everything else, I don't think that Iraag's skills in the English language are sufficient for him to be a useful contributor - this post [122] makes no sense at all until you realise that he thinks 'restore' means 'delete'. As for 'meaning well', at least one of the references for the Isrg Rajan article (which I'm sure was autobiographical) was completely bogus - a link to this page [123], which contains 'ISRG' as a NASDAQ identifier. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:02, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Mentoring could be an option - though I don't have the time to do so - but failing that, a CIR block may well be warranted. GiantSnowman 12:58, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'll add a bit from recent rather typical post, one of several on AndyTheGrump's talkpage: "It's like you are jealous with writing of my articles as you have restored all many articles and even nominated some for speedy deletion. Please don't forget you are only a Admin not the developer or the owner of Wikipedia." If nobody has any objection or anything else to suggest, I do intend to block, even though I believe they mean well. Competence is required. Bishonentalk 08:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC).
- That reference is telling, Andy; if it's well-meant, I guess it suggests a WP:CIR abyss. I'd be surprised if anybody else is prepared to take on mentoring the user either, GS, but I'll leave this open for a few more hours in case of further commentary. Meanwhile it's rather striking that Iraag has continued the disruptive editing after he posted in this thread 24 hours ago. Examples: the post on Andy's page I quoted just above, and (this just in) the recreation yet again of an article redirected per per AfD.[124] I don't know if he's not watching ANI, or just not getting what's been said beyond the Jeffrey Altheer speedy-tagging issue. Ping, Iraag! Bishonen talk 15:35, 25 February 2014 (UTC).
- First of all I would like to thank each of you for bringing my mistake or the contributions in light. Well, earlier I nominated Jeffrey Altheer for speedy deletion under the speedy deletion policy:A2 where Jeffrey Altheer is already existing in nl:Jeffrey Altheer. One thing I would like mention that Ping, AndyTheGrump has raised many issues in my editing/ contribution but he haven't discussed with me about any of my article rather he nominated for speedy deletion Isrg Rajan or redirected Chirag Paswan to other article. As well as he have not consider 4 valid references out of 5 references added by me under the article Isrg Rajan (now deleted/nominate by me) and made another issue by taking one of invalid reference. Sir, you all are welcomed to block me and yes! I've no problem as I am a volunteer on Wikipedia as like you all. Thanks!! Ping, Bishonen, Iraag (talk) 16:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think Iraag (talk·contribs) is being disruptive on purpose, and I am going to AGF on his edits, but he definitely needs to take some time to read about the basics before he does any further editing. If his strange behaviour continues, then I think a block is appropriate. I will leave him a message on his Talk page. JMHamo (talk) 17:43, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
User:39 moving articles to their titles with the word temp in parentheses
See User 39 (talk · contribs). I'm not sure what this seemingly relatively new user is doing, but it is WP:Disruptive editing. Flyer22 (talk) 18:41, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I was going to post something similar when I saw him move two grape articles Rotberger (temp) and Gouais blanc (temp). This is very bewildering and looks like trolling. Would appreciate some admins breaking out the mop and bucket for this mess. AgneCheese/Wine 18:45, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Agne27 (Agne), I first noticed the editor with this move. Anyway, I see that DrKiernan blocked him or her two minutes after my report on this matter. Now it's time to clean up the user's massive mess.
- Interesting, Kyohyi; likely the same user.Flyer22 (talk) 18:50, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Obviously the same jerk; seems to have some kind of bot to do this on a mass basis in a few seconds. --Orange Mike Talk 18:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Interesting, Kyohyi; likely the same user.Flyer22 (talk) 18:50, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#User_47_moving_pages_without_good_reason. They've also found 32, 33, 34, 39, 40, and 46. These discussions should probably be combined. There's still a huge clean up needed. Voceditenore (talk) 19:02, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have closed the AN discussion and invited comment here; as this is clearly a wider issue it seems more suitable for ANI. GiantSnowman 19:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- From what it looks like, all of the pagemoves have been reverted for User 38 (talk · contribs). Anyone mind nuking the remnants? Cloudchased (talk) 19:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Vituzzu, because this user moved the articles on a massive scale with some kind of tool, it'll be easier and quicker if administrators or other editors with such tools revert this user; administrator Trappist the monk (talk·contribs) is already on the job. There are also probably some moves that require administrative assistance. Flyer22 (talk) 19:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, I was also on it but since you already had local resources to fulfil the task I'm no longer needed then :D --Vituzzu (talk) 19:13, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Once the job is done, anyone mind cleaning up the mess that I inadvertently left behind by pressing some big, scary buttons? Non-admin page moves left the redirects behind. :/ Cloudchased (talk) 19:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, I was also on it but since you already had local resources to fulfil the task I'm no longer needed then :D --Vituzzu (talk) 19:13, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Vituzzu, because this user moved the articles on a massive scale with some kind of tool, it'll be easier and quicker if administrators or other editors with such tools revert this user; administrator Trappist the monk (talk·contribs) is already on the job. There are also probably some moves that require administrative assistance. Flyer22 (talk) 19:10, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Although now blocked, there are still some of the residual XXXXXX (temp) files inserted by User:User 38 that need to be snuffed. Carrite (talk) 19:30, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
This is a real problem, as well the pesky vandal knows. We can cover the cracks (as some of us have tried to do by moving those articles back), but unless someone can point me to a quick way of doing it, this vandal will always have the upper hand if he can move a dozen articles per minute. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/User 47 for the full list (9 accounts) after checkuser. Voceditenore (talk) 19:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Is there someway of stopping any user from moving more than say, 10 pages per minute, unless they're an approved bot? I can't see any real reason why any human user would move more than one page every 6 or so seconds. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 19:39, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- How did the guy manage to move the pages without being autoconfirmed? WP:MOVE says that users have to be autoconfirmed in order to move pages. Deor (talk) 19:41, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- The checkusers and stewards are looking into this problem. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 19:51, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Many pages have been moved back to their proper places - in some cases without leaving a redirect, in others the redir has been deleted separately. Unfortunately, sometimes the double-redir-fix bots got there first so there is more cleanup needed. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
This kind of vandalism even on high speeds is really nothing new, but I prefer administrators to do this job because they have the suppressredirect right. TeleComNasSprVen (talk • contribs) 02:47, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- @TeleComNasSprVen: You linked to a user page that was deleted more than seven years ago; although registered, that user has neither contribs nor deleted contribs - what is the relevance? --Redrose64 (talk) 07:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, changed the link above. It may not be obvious from logs and deleted contributions, but there was a history there. TeleComNasSprVen (talk • contribs) 08:12, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Admin Smartse!
Not really a boomerang, but Iraag has been indef'd as a result of the thread above. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Any other admin over Wikipedia please inform Admin User:Smartse! for cancelling the speedy deletion nomination of the article Isrg Rajan as I've added many reliable secondary resources such as newspaper, web etc. for the references but still the admin nominated my article for speedy deletion. Iraag (talk) 19:14, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- And then you blanked the article which technically would allow it to be speedily-deleted per the G7 criterion. -- Atama頭 19:38, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Iraag:, this is the second time today your speedy deletions have been raised at ANI - see also #User:Iraag - are you aware of WP:BOOMERANG? If you don't know how to properly apply CSD to articles then you should not be doing so at all. GiantSnowman 19:40, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- @GiantSnowman:, last time I nominated a article for the speedy deletion but this time the last editor has took revenge by nominating my article for deletion and appealing other admins to delete my articles. thanks for your help tc. Iraag (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, I should have been clearer - the second speedy deletions involving you have been brought to ANI. Firstly your over-zealous tagging of the Jeffrey Altheer article, and now this. GiantSnowman 20:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- The article in question was about a 19-year-old with no credible claim to notability. 'Revenge' has nothing to do with it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Talk:Right-wing socialism
There has been a long standing split tag on Right-wing socialism. The discussion had stalled, so I raised an RfC in order to resolve the issue. I deliberately stayed out of the discussion so that I could be neutral. Everything has been civilised right up until the robot removed the RfC tag. Believing WP:RFC and WP:ANRFC allowed me to close the discussion I did so. I was immediately reverted by one of the participants, so I notified WP:ANRFC. user:Keithbob closed the RfC today [[126]] and was reverted immediately [[127]] by user:Collect. I do not believe either Keithbob or I have acted contrary to the process and it appears that collect intends to edit war with anyone who closes the RfC contrary his preference. Any assistance that you can provide will be appreciated. Op47 (talk) 20:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
The "consensus" was all of 4 to 2 which I decline to accept as a "clear consensus." RfC closers do not get a "supervote" in such a case by precedent. The article was not deleted at AfDs in the past where far larger numbers participated, and I regard AfD as being the proper course of action rather than using a 4 to 2 !vote as a means of deletion. Cheers. As for your failure to assume good faith - your accusation that I would edit war on this is absurd and incollegial. Kindly redact that accusation. Where prior AfDs have occurred, it is best to renominate at a new AfD. And I know of no case where the person starting the RfC is considered a proper closer of the RfC which he actually started and using his own "supervote" (I trust no one asserts that 4 to 2 is a "clear consensus to delete an article"). Collect (talk) 21:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I understand objecting to a closure from a non-administrator. Op47, you realize that ANRFC is an administrator's noticeboard, and Keithbob is not an administrator, so if you were looking for an admin to close it why did you accept Keithbob's closure?
- As to whether or not the article must go to AfD... I disagree on that point. The proposal as I understand it isn't to delete the article's content, but to split it up into separate articles and turn the current article into a disambiguation page. I don't see that AfD is required in that case, even if previous AfD discussions resulted in a conclusion to keep the information in one article. I saw, Collect, that you had felt that proper notification wasn't done when the RfC was begun, and so felt that the RfC result was invalid. Would you accept the validity of the RfC if the proper parties (and/or Wikiprojects) were notified and the RfC was extended to give a reasonable time for those people to provide input? That should have at least as much exposure as an AfD. I dislike the idea of moving everything to a new venue when the current location has already had a discussion that can be continued. -- Atama頭 21:41, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- According to WP:CLOSE"Where consensus remains unclear, where the issue is a contentious one, or where there are wiki-wide implications, a request for a neutral and uninvolved editor to formally close a discussion may be made at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. [bold added]. Furthermore it says RfC's are closed on the basis of "rough consensus". Before closing the RfC I reviewed all of the comments and also read the two prior AfDs from 2012. At the AfD's there was no consensus for deletion. However the clear majority of the participants favored either deletion or merger and only a minority supported keeping the article as is. Same at the RfC. Therefore I assessed that there was a "rough consensus" to merge the contents (not delete them) and to create a disambiguation page in it's place. Closures are subjective and are interpretations by good faith, involved editors. There is a procedure for challenging a close and allowing a participant to revert the close is not one of them. Again I quote WP:CLOSE"Simply believing a closure is wrong, even where reasonable people would have closed a discussion differently, is not sufficient for requesting review." However if those who disagree with the consensus close, are permitted to continue shopping for new closers, I'm sure they will eventually find someone who will give them the outcome they desire.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 22:00, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- An article split is not the same as deletion, so I see nop good reason why a debate on a proposed split should have been done via AfD -- indeed I might have speedy-closed such a discussion as an inappropriate nom. While it is usual for AfDs to be closed by admins, particularly AfDs resulting in Delete outcomes, since an admin is needed to perform a deletion anyway, other sorts of RfCs can be closed by experienced editors who are not admins. That said, wider participation might be a good thing, and a neutral announcement to editors who cared enough to comment on the past AfD discussions, or who made significant edits to the article, might be a good idea. Atama's suggestion seems worth considering. I have no opinion on the desirability of the proposed split, but if it is eventaully carried out, i trust the editor who does the split will be careful to use {{copied}} or a similar template to preserve the chain of attributions. DES(talk) 22:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I understand, Keithbob, and I don't think that either of you did anything wrong. And Collect is obviously not a neutral observer in this case, and objecting to the closure by reverting was out of process. But at the same time, I think it's reasonable to reach out to more individuals if there are parties who were involved in the most recent AfD who were not informed.
- An article split is not the same as deletion, so I see nop good reason why a debate on a proposed split should have been done via AfD -- indeed I might have speedy-closed such a discussion as an inappropriate nom. While it is usual for AfDs to be closed by admins, particularly AfDs resulting in Delete outcomes, since an admin is needed to perform a deletion anyway, other sorts of RfCs can be closed by experienced editors who are not admins. That said, wider participation might be a good thing, and a neutral announcement to editors who cared enough to comment on the past AfD discussions, or who made significant edits to the article, might be a good idea. Atama's suggestion seems worth considering. I have no opinion on the desirability of the proposed split, but if it is eventaully carried out, i trust the editor who does the split will be careful to use {{copied}} or a similar template to preserve the chain of attributions. DES(talk) 22:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- According to WP:CLOSE"Where consensus remains unclear, where the issue is a contentious one, or where there are wiki-wide implications, a request for a neutral and uninvolved editor to formally close a discussion may be made at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. [bold added]. Furthermore it says RfC's are closed on the basis of "rough consensus". Before closing the RfC I reviewed all of the comments and also read the two prior AfDs from 2012. At the AfD's there was no consensus for deletion. However the clear majority of the participants favored either deletion or merger and only a minority supported keeping the article as is. Same at the RfC. Therefore I assessed that there was a "rough consensus" to merge the contents (not delete them) and to create a disambiguation page in it's place. Closures are subjective and are interpretations by good faith, involved editors. There is a procedure for challenging a close and allowing a participant to revert the close is not one of them. Again I quote WP:CLOSE"Simply believing a closure is wrong, even where reasonable people would have closed a discussion differently, is not sufficient for requesting review." However if those who disagree with the consensus close, are permitted to continue shopping for new closers, I'm sure they will eventually find someone who will give them the outcome they desire.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 22:00, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't agree that Collect can unilaterally declare that consensus wasn't reached, and it's definitely not okay to shop for closers until someone closes it the "correct" way. I'm just hoping that a compromise can be found here, I don't see how holding the RfC open for another 7 days will hurt (7 days happens to be the amount of time an AfD would normally take). I've also seen precedence where an editor wants administrator closure of an RfC, which again is why RfCs are listed at AN and ANRFC. -- Atama頭 22:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks Atama. I know others may disagree but in my opinion notifying participants from an AfD from two years prior would not be prequisite for an RfC of this kind where the proposal is for a merge not deletion. Also, folks should know that this close was/is listed at ANRFC which is where I found it, as I regularly close RfC's listed there, to assist with the backlog. Collect and I have worked together on a number of occasions at BLPN. They are a sincere and dedicated Wikipedian who is passionate about their work. I'm sure this will get sorted out as things cool down. :-) -- — Keithbob • Talk • 22:57, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Atama. The first lines of WP:ANRFC are:"The Requests for closure noticeboard is for posting requests to have an uninvolved editor assess, summarize, and formally close a discussion on Wikipedia." Therefore I was expecting an uninvolved editor. Keithbob appears to be an uninvolved editor and therefore Keithbob would do. If I am missing something then I am sorry. + ::::I understand, Keithbob, and I don't think that either of you did anything wrong. And Collect is obviously not a neutral observer in this case, and objecting to the closure by reverting was out of process. But at the same time, I think it's reasonable to reach out to more individuals if there are parties who were involved in the most recent AfD who were not informed.
- @Collect. The concensus was 5 to 2 (TFD,RJFF,APerson,BlueSalix & N-HH v Robofish & Collect). I did not "vote" and in any case, I weighed the arguments given as is required (because concensus is not a vote) and was persuaded that the article contained several distinct topics. I did not use a "supervote" since that would be contrary to process and was not required in any case. As I have stated above, my ony concern is that somehow we can resolve the split tag and I am sorry that it is proving so contentious. My naturally lazy tendency is to remove the split tag, but I cannot with a clear concience look at either the number of people who have voiced an opinion or the opinions that have been voiced and say that I can see anything other than a concensus to form a disambiguation page. That "Right Wing Socialism" is notable there is no doubt. Judging by the article and the people who have given their opinions, there is no doubt that it is not a single concept. +
- @All. I did follow the process given in WP:RFC and I am not sure how this RfC has failed to involve all interested parties. If it will resolve the dispute then I am happy to extend the RfC by another 2 weeks (say) and place a notice along the lines of "You may be interested in this RfC <<link>>" placed on the talk pages of ALL of the participants in the AfDs. Op47 (talk) 23:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, Op47, what I was referencing in my original comment is the fact that you were reverted by Collect in the original closure when Collect stated "rv non-admin closure", then you went for another closer and got a different non-admin to close it. It just didn't make sense; either you disagree with Collect that it's necessary for an administrator to close it, or you find someone who is an administrator to make the decision. If you just get a second non-admin to close it, of course Collect is going to object again. Look at it this way, if the RFC is open another 7 days and at least the original AfD participants are alerted, that satisfies any objections they have. There really won't be any legitimate reason to object any longer. You may even have more support to split up the article from that attempt. -- Atama頭 23:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- (ec)In case you had not noticed it, that was essentially my position at the start (note that those who opined at the AfD should really have been notified of this seems pretty clear, IMHO). I would, however, suggest a "clean start" RfC, and hatting the current one lest anyone look at process and not discussion. I still dislike your claim that I was "edit warring" on this, as my past experience has been that back door deletions tend to cause grave problems . Collect (talk) 23:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- This isn't a back door deletion. There is no request to delete the page. Even if you feel like this is the same as deleting the page, it isn't, no more than moving a page to another name is deleting it, or rewriting an article is a deletion. Let's put it this way, Collect... If someone opened up an AfD and said "I don't really want to delete this article, I want to split it into multiple articles and turn this page into a disambiguation", the AfD would be closed immediately as not being a real AfD. I've seen it happen before, an AfD is intended to nominate articles for deletion, not change, and AfDs which argue for something other than deletion are often closed. Sometimes an AfD results in something other than "keep" or "delete", true, if some kind of compromise is reached in the midst of the discussion. But an AfD is not the correct process to begin this discussion. It's also improper to suggest that we sweep the prior discussion under the rug because nothing was wrong with that discussion even if you came into it late. -- Atama頭 23:36, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't agree that Collect can unilaterally declare that consensus wasn't reached, and it's definitely not okay to shop for closers until someone closes it the "correct" way. I'm just hoping that a compromise can be found here, I don't see how holding the RfC open for another 7 days will hurt (7 days happens to be the amount of time an AfD would normally take). I've also seen precedence where an editor wants administrator closure of an RfC, which again is why RfCs are listed at AN and ANRFC. -- Atama頭 22:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Here is a list of every editor who participated in the most recent AfD (April 2012) and has not participated in the RfC:
- Carrite (talk · contribs)
- Monterey Bay (talk · contribs)
- AlexTiefling (talk · contribs)
- Colapeninsula (talk · contribs)
- Colonel Warden (talk · contribs)
- Borock (talk · contribs)
- Darkness Shines (talk · contribs)
- JayJasper (talk · contribs)
- Nug (talk · contribs)
- Zloyvolsheb (talk · contribs)
- Outback the koala (talk · contribs)
- Anarchangel (talk · contribs)
- My very best wishes (talk · contribs)
A neutrally-worded notification sent to each individual should satisfy any concern that not enough of a notification was sent out. And again, if this was an AfD, we'd have 7 days to form consensus, so waiting 7 days after notification would give them the same amount of time to participate that an AfD would. -- Atama頭 23:45, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oh, and I checked, every editor on the list is unblocked (so could participate) and with the exception of Outback the koala and Anarchangel, they're all pretty active (those two editors haven't made an edit since 2013). -- Atama頭 23:49, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, you ping and I sing. This whole topic is inherently tendentious and I don't have much interest in bumping bellies with POV warriors over the future outcome of an article that shouldn't even exist on WP. Quoting myself from the last AfD challenge of this: "Delete - Echoing the complaint I made in the last go-round, there is no such single entity as "right wing socialism." There have been a list of proposed and actual socialist programs through the years characterized by critics as "right wing socialism" — but there is no logical, organic connection between, say, the "right wing socialisms" listed by Marx and Engels in the Communist Manifesto and the Bismarckian system in Germany and Bernstein's reformism and the pro-war "Social Patriotism" of the World War I era and the "National Socialism" of Hitler. What we have here is List of things characterized as "Right Wing Socialism" in certain times and places by their critics. Which is not an encyclopedic topic. Each and every sub-topic here is the subject of its own article, so far as I am aware — this is a pure fork. Don't let the wall of footnotes distract you, keep your eye on the ball. Carrite (talk)." That was ignored, pity. Have fun. Carrite (talk) 00:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Apparently when I added that list above, it pinged a number of people, and aside from Carrite coming here to comment here, AlexTiefling, Darkness Shines and Nug have all commented at the discussion page. So in a sense, notification has been sent. I'm going to take the initiative and notify the others who have not yet participated. It's possible that the other editors may have turned off the automatic notifications that occur when your name is mentioned, or missed such notifications. The fact that some of these editors are choosing to participate seems to justify Collect's suggestion that they should have been notified initially. -- Atama頭 18:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- UPDATE: I've notified every editor on the list above who has not yet commented, with the exception of My very best wishes who has a template indicating that they have retired from Wikipedia, and who has left a message requesting that no more messages be posted on their talk page. My suggestion is to allow the RfC to run for at least an additional 7 days (until 18:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)) to have the proper 7 day wait that an AfD would have allowed. After that time, an administrator can decide consensus, or if it looks like a compromise is in the works that would satisfy most parties then the discussion should be allowed to conclude naturally. -- Atama頭 18:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that is sufficient. If this were an AfD it would have been listed via WP:DELSORT to gain the widest community input. --Nug (talk) 21:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
92.163.53.142
Special:Contributions/92.163.53.142 - serial citation spammer - rollback? 113.210.142.105 (talk) 22:24, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- I see nothing wrong with the cites. They appear to be on-topic.--Auric talk 13:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Proxying for banned editor
[128] This IP is openly making edits to Wikipedia on behalf of a banned editor. The IP even links to the off-site post by the banned editor in the edit summaries. Thanks. Cla68 (talk) 22:46, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Per Wikipedia:BAN#Proxying it's perfectly appropriate to make edits suggested by a banned user if they are independently verifiable and a net benefit to the encyclopedia. I haven't examined these edits in detail, but having read the original blog post, it pointed out a number of independently verifiable things that could be changed to present a net benefit to the encyclopedia. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:51, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's okay if the edits are vouched for by someone independent. If the IP is doing everything only at the direction of the banned individual (as a meatpuppet) that's not allowed, nor would it be allowed if the IP is actually the banned editor doing the edits themselves anonymously. Since we operate by assuming good faith, you'd need evidence pointing to either misbehavior for us to disallow these edits. I'll say that I've done similar actions myself, though not for a banned editor. I've worked with an editor who had a clear COI and made edits on their behalf, but I most definitely did so not by proxy. Many of the edits they suggested that I do, I didn't do because I disagreed with them, and others that I did were applied only after a significant discussion and compromise was reached. So I can sympathize with the IP's position if these edits are being done legitimately. -- Atama頭 23:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well yeah, meatpuppetry isn't allowed. But IP's are perfectly valid editors, so unless someone can show evidence that either (a) the edits are not verifiable, (b) the edits are being made directly by Damien, or (c) the edits violate some other policy, then the edits are perfectly fine. Given that Cla68 is a moderator of the site that posted the blog in question, I suspect the reason he posted this thread has little to do with genuine concern over the edits the IP made. Kevin Gorman (talk) 01:01, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- This edit [129] seems reasonable. P.S. I wouldn't know Peter Damien, whoever that is, if he tripped me. JoeSperrazza (talk) 00:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- See banned users. The issue of proxying for banned users is one of the most disruptive that can arise at Wikipedia because the Pollyanna approach of evaluating each edit for its merits flies in the face of WP:Banned means banned. Supporting such edits is a win for liberty, but a large incentive for trolling. Johnuniq (talk) 01:51, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- FYI, this is not a situation of block evasion, as far as I can see. The last version of Peter's userpage as he edited it suggests a UK connexion (he says he went to a UK university), and all the IPs in Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Peter Damian are English: one in Yorkshire, and the rest in London or elsewhere in the south. Conversely, IP address 41.130.42.159 is located in Egypt — unless Peter's made a big move, it's someone else. No comment on anything else being discussed here. Nyttend (talk) 02:21, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- If good information comes as a result of a banned editor making a suggestion on an external site, then the project has been improved. Other than spite, there, is no real reason to reject such an edit out of hand. Tarc (talk) 02:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- John, if you disagree with a fairly long standing portion of our banning policy, I'd suggest you suggest a change in appropriate forum. Kevin Gorman (talk) 02:35, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Petition
I see myself in an awkward situation by user Lecen.
The article Peter III of Aragon had during two years (since 2011) the image Pedro II de Aragón.jpg on the infobox.
In October 2013, user Srnec changed the image without consensus. We had an edition war, but we began to speak. In this moment, user Lecen (who had had a conflict with me in Pedro II of Brazil) intervened in the article by first time. He accused me of being the cause of the conflict and removed my editions. I said him that was the Srnec's change the cause and that the previous version must be live until the consensus. He didn't hear and presented a complaint against me. And I was punished. Now, he haunts me. I have filed a complaint against another user and he has come to discredit me by my background. And he has returned to delete the previous image, the image of before the discussion, without reasons and also threatens to report me if I restart.--EeuHP (talk) 00:09, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, aren't you just a fountain of edit-warring? We don't deal with content disputes here, but you do have a significant history of violating the rules. Have you tried following WP:DR properly, or are you simply going to rely on reversion again and again across multiple articles. Just because it's been a month since your last edit war on that article, does not mean it's not blockable DP 00:13, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Update: the OP has now filed multiple AN3 reports for month-old issues (all closed as stale), and is now complaining around the 'pedia that we're refusing to punish the other party. EeuHP has been advised multiple times that blocks are preventative, not punishment, but they're off in their own world. This WP:BATTLE behaviour is growing tiring ES&L 12:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Before you dismiss this out of hand, have you looked at User:Lecen's intervention?
- [130] Edit summary Do it again, please
- [131] Edit summary You are edit warring. This might lead to sanctions against you. Please, stop.
- [132] Edit summary Don't do that or else I'll have to report you
- The OP was edit warring but there seems to be a spot of WP:TAG going on, not to mention a little baiting to breach 3RR. Having had dealings with Lecen before, I have seen him edit warring, baiting and generally abusing other editors but it is rarely commented on because of his GA and FA history. Wee Curry Monstertalk 12:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Look further back ... this is long-term edit-warring over months, and they've done the same thing over a number of articles ES&L 12:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did, eg [133] its been an issue with both. But for this particular example, Lecen is removing a featured picture to impose his preference. 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other IMHO. And I'm not surprised to see Asyntax involved who I expect to pop up and defend his friend shortly. WP:Brazil works as a definite clique. Wee Curry Monstertalk 13:22, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't see any evidence of baiting, unless you are referring to the edit summary "Do it again, please", which could easily be an accidental contraction of "don't do it again please". Also, the "featured picture" is the one on Pedro II of Brazil [134] not Peter III of Aragon. EeuHP's preferred image, File:Pedro III de Aragón.jpg, is not featured. Paul B (talk) 17:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did, eg [133] its been an issue with both. But for this particular example, Lecen is removing a featured picture to impose his preference. 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other IMHO. And I'm not surprised to see Asyntax involved who I expect to pop up and defend his friend shortly. WP:Brazil works as a definite clique. Wee Curry Monstertalk 13:22, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- A good evidence of baiting is that Lecen never worked in articles of the Crown of Aragon and he decided edit in the article of Peter III, where his old opponent had a discussion with Srnec (who made a controversial change). He ignore that the previous edition was Pedro III de Aragón.jpg and he gave the reason to Srnec and his recent change. After he denounced me and I was blocked (and I couldn't present a complaint against Srnec by violation of the rule of three reversals). And now, I returned and I find him in all the places. He return at the article of Peter III for remove my edition and he threatens me to get another complaint if I don't do what he wants and when I finally present the complaint about Srnec, he is the second who appears to discredit me.--EeuHP (talk) 17:37, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Look further back ... this is long-term edit-warring over months, and they've done the same thing over a number of articles ES&L 12:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, it would appear that the person bringing the complaint here is unquestionably in the right unless the pictures are mislabeled. The basic requirement for a picture in an infobox is that it show the correct subject. I would never blame an inexperienced editor for not following the rules or for pressing too hard when he's in good faith trying to help the encyclopedia. DangerousPanda, EatsShootsAndLeaves, would you care to comment on whether what he wants to do is right or wrong? DGG ( talk ) 17:30, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm somewhat bemused by your comment. What is he "in the right" about? There are disputes about whether one image or another should be preferred on some articles (notably the articles on Pedro II of Brazil and Peter III of Aragon). I don't think there is any suggestion that images of someone else have been used. The dispute concerns accusations of edit warring on one side and of stalking on the other. Paul B (talk) 17:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Pedro III de Aragón.jpg was put by one user in 2011. Srnec change the portrait and put the coin and I oppose. Who cause the edition war? Srnec, because he made a change that was no accepted. We violated the 3RR and finally we talk. While we talk, the previous version prevailed. Srnec himself support the situation during a few time. But then Lecen appears and said "EeuHP, you are the cause of the war and you must stop". I explain the situation, but he don't heard me. He remove the image two times and he denounced me and I was blocked. And when I was blocked, Srnec no needed search consensus. Now, official version say that I was the autor of a controversial change in Peter III of Aragón y you and the other fight for the coin, when until the consensus arrive the image that should prevail is Pedro III de Aragón.jpg.--EeuHP (talk) 19:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm somewhat bemused by your comment. What is he "in the right" about? There are disputes about whether one image or another should be preferred on some articles (notably the articles on Pedro II of Brazil and Peter III of Aragon). I don't think there is any suggestion that images of someone else have been used. The dispute concerns accusations of edit warring on one side and of stalking on the other. Paul B (talk) 17:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
I have blocked EeuHP for three months for violating WP:3RR at Peter III of Aragon and filing bogus reports at WP:AN3, not to mention taking the same complaints to my talk page and to EdJohnston's talk page (Ed was the last admin to block the user - one month). EeuHP just came off a one-month edit-warring block. They were unblocked early based on this request: "Having most of the i sentence passed, I request the unblocking. If someone is concerned about the possibility of more edit wars, I say that I will stick to the rules scrupulously, with caution and paying attention to detail for not ignore any aspect." I don't know how anyone can justify the user's subsequent behavior. However, if there is a consensus to unblock them or shorten the duration, fine.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- The picture EeuHP reverted to has been in the article for years. Srnec changed it back in Jan and was challenged, but instead of taking it to talk, the two edit-warred over it till EeuHP was finally blocked. EeuHP is right in reinstating the older picture in the absence of consensus. Regardless, he's stopped edit warring and 'filing bogus reports' and came here, so this block's rather punitive, on the face of it. However, this user's now well on their way to becoming a persona non grata, so I suggest the 3-month block is upheld in hope that they'll fill the time they used to spend on Wikipedia warring over pictures of dictators with something a little more productive. — Lfdder (talk) 02:09, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Not strictly accurate - they didn't stop edit warring after they opened this ANI, or after I attempted to discuss the issue with them. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Lfdder's account is not accurate at all. Srnec replaced the image with an edit summary explaining, quite logically, the reasons. EeuHP tried to edit war. His edit summaries indicate total ignorance of the historical issues with the image, so Srnec's reaction is understandable. However Srnrc initiated discussion by self-reverting [135], indicating a willingness to discuss not displayed by EeuHP. EeuHP continued to revert war with all other editors. There are many images in articles that have been there for years, but which are totally inappropriate. Articles on medieval history can remain untouched for a long time with erroneous content or the wrong image. Even articles on later, better documented periods, can have this problem. The article on Geertje Dircx [136] had a reproduction of Rembrandt's Danae with a totally absurd caption that she had the face of Geertje. It was there for years. Paul B (talk) 12:29, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- What part of my account is inaccurate? I don't think you understand how consensus building works. Also, it takes two to edit war. — Lfdder (talk) 12:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think you understand what I wrote. I already answered the question you asked. The "point" you make in the last sentence has already been addressed in my first reply. Paul B (talk) 13:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I think I do. Put simply, once reverted, you don't revert again. Srnec initiated discussion after what -- about 10 back-and-forths? The user's ignorance isn't exactly relevant to the edit war. — Lfdder (talk) 13:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- There were nowhere near ten. Such silly hyperbole does not help discussion. There were three before the self-revert, and they were based on the legitimate fact that EeuHP's edit summaries were wrong, which fact was pointed out in the revert. Ignorance of the facts is a good reason to revert an edit. If the editor is simply wrong, and can be shown to be wrong, it is understandable that the editor who knows the facts will want to remove the inaccuracies. You can't just trot out "it takes two to edit war" as if that means both participants are somehow automatically equally guilty all the time. That's far too glib. We have to take circumstances into account, as there is always a grey area from wanton vandalism, through abject ignorance to legitimate disagreement. Paul B (talk) 13:39, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I think I do. Put simply, once reverted, you don't revert again. Srnec initiated discussion after what -- about 10 back-and-forths? The user's ignorance isn't exactly relevant to the edit war. — Lfdder (talk) 13:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- "Regardless, he's stopped edit warring and 'filing bogus reports' and came here" - he continued to edit war after he came here. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think you understand what I wrote. I already answered the question you asked. The "point" you make in the last sentence has already been addressed in my first reply. Paul B (talk) 13:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- What part of my account is inaccurate? I don't think you understand how consensus building works. Also, it takes two to edit war. — Lfdder (talk) 12:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm disappointed, but unsurprised. I attempted to mediate, but the language barrier is a problem, and I think some of the issue is EeuHP's weak grasp of English. EeuHP's initial reversion may have been right, but the latest set of edit warring cannot be defended - as Bbb23 rightly stated, they were unblocked after specifically stating that they would not edit-war. Particularly as Srnec was not the only user to revert them either time around. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:41, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well he may have been rude but he was also correct; using a picture of a coin when we have a nice portrait is just plain silly. Why do established users get to skate time after time for rudeness yet the newbies get marched to the gulag on offense #1 ? Tarc (talk) 14:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- No Tarc he wasn't. The portrait, as is explained in the discussion, is just a generic king-picture created hundreds of years later. The point was made in the original edit summary. There are lots of these from the 16th century when imaginary galleries of kings were created. When we have nothing contemporary we have to make do with such images, as in Macbeth. But we shouldn't use them because they just "look nicer". Paul B (talk) 16:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I find it a bit hard to believe that a half-dozen other wikis are using the image if it is incorrect, but if so, then images such as File:Rey_Pedro_III_Aragón.jpg would still be far preferable. Tarc (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
OMICS Creations
WP:BOOMERANG - OP blocked for edit warring, and then indeffed as a sock. Nothing to do here now, non-admin closure. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:12, 26 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
OMICS Creations (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Some group editors doing syndicate editing ande redirecting films and movies page OMICS Creations to Scientific Publishing OMICS Publishing Group. CU is required and/or investigation required about these people who are representing as experts but behaving as culprits. This is a Preposterous activity at WP. I request sock poppet investigation and full protection for this article.Movieking007 (talk) 07:39, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- What's needed here is a CU to deal with WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Scholarscentral. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:11, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Now at AN3 as well. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 10:59, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- The AN3 can be closed - wasn't even filed correctly. And the OP can be warned for forum-shopping. ES&L 12:12, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, I'm speaking of the AN3 report that I filed re Movieking007, who has bright-line violated 3RR. That one was filed properly and should result in a block. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:36, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- The AN3 can be closed - wasn't even filed correctly. And the OP can be warned for forum-shopping. ES&L 12:12, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Mt. Gox -- current event
This is just a heads-up; nobody is doing anything bad, but some people are getting carried away.
Mt. Gox, the troubled Bitcoin exchange, shut down today, with no warning and no details. NYT: "Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World". Forbes: "Bitcoin's Price Plummets As Mt. Gox Goes Dark, With Massive Hack". Bloomberg: "Mt. Gox Bitcoin Exchange Goes Offline as Peers Lash Out at Firm". WSJ: "Mt. Gox Website Unavailable; Home Page Appears to Have Been Deleted". All sorts of wild rumors are going around, being echoed through the press, and some are being put into Wikipedia. There's heavy press coverage, but nobody really has solid info, except that their web site and Twitter feed have been blanked and the phones don't answer. There's a "leaked reorganization plan" floating around, which may be fake, but some news outlets believe it. A few more eyes on the article would be appropriate for the next 24 to 48 hours to keep the rumor level under control. --John Nagle (talk) 08:05, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'd like to ask for a day or two of semi-protection on Mt. Gox. Junk edits from anons, an SPA with an obvious name, etc.[137]. Nothing really bad, just too much noise. (Press coverage is very heavy - over 800 articles in Google News just for today. Unfortunately, it's mostly the same sparse info being echoed through blogs, op-eds, and secondary sources.) --John Nagle (talk) 21:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've semi-protected it for a few days. I looked at the page history and there are many reverts in a short period, enough to justify semi-protection in my opinion. -- Atama頭 23:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. That should do it for now. John Nagle (talk) 04:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've semi-protected it for a few days. I looked at the page history and there are many reverts in a short period, enough to justify semi-protection in my opinion. -- Atama頭 23:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Assistance needed: Liliane Bettencourt
ANI is not a place for content disputes. Also, per the BLP policy factoids such as this should not be added without solid sources. Blackmane (talk) 22:15, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Liliane Bettencourt has been revised by multiple authors to include information about ongoing scams linking directly to the Wikipedia article. This has been occurring since at least February 7 [138].
A discussion has been started, and the justification for inclusion of the scam email information is WP:IAR. Full details and justification for using WP:IAR are on the talk page. As of this time, no solid argument has been presented to refute WP:IAR.
Regardless of this, editors continue to remove the information from the page without discussion on refuting the applicability of WP:IAR.
173.59.201.71 (talk) 16:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- The Talk page is clear enough on this. You just wont hear it. --Roxy the dog (resonate) 16:51, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Full text of conversation, copied from the Talk page:
In light of repeated removals of warnings regarding this Wikipedia page being used for scam emails, I have invoked WP:Ignore All Rules, since there really is no clear rule on what to do when Wikipedia is being directly used to scam people. In this case, scammers are linking DIRECTLY to the Wikipedia page.
Wikipedia is about making a positive impact on people's lives, and providing them accurate information. In this case, a factual Wikipedia page is being used by scammers for non-factual purposes, in order to take advantage of others through Advance Fee Fraud scams.
The decision to invoke WP:IAR was not taken lightly, and in this case I feel is very appropriate.
Editors keep removing the warnings, but only with the justification that it's "not encyclopedic". I think Wikipedia has evolved beyond just being an encyclopedia, since it is used and updated real time.
I also challenge any editor who wants to remove the warning - which does more harm or more good?
The warning is only one line in italics at the beginning of the article, and does not impact the content of the article, or affect its' NPOV. Very little harm is done by having the warning present, while at the same time the good it can do is tremendous - it could prevent many people from falling for these scams.
On the flipside, should the warning be removed, people may believe the emails are genuine, since they refer to a trusted source (Wikipedia).
173.59.201.71 (talk) 13:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Despite multiple attempts at communicating with other editors, this keeps getting removed without discussion. Please discuss it here. I have moved the information to its own section on the page, citing sources. I'm very disappointed by Wikipedia editors removing this content without discussion. I have invoked WP:IAR to improve Wikipedia and the knowledge of would-be victims. Of course apparently because I'm just an IP address and not a registered account, I am immediately seen as a newbie and my views disregarded. I don't have any barnstars, or thousands of contributions on Wikipedia, so I have very little weight here it seems. 173.59.201.71 (talk) 13:48, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're certainly correct that after multiple back-and-forth reverts this should be discussed here. However, your addition to the article doesn't belong there. There is an inconceivable amount of spam of that kind. If we had to make a mention on every article of someone who's been the butt of such a spam email, we'd have a lot of work. Long story short, this occurrence fails WP:GNG and WP:EVENT. ~ twsx talkcont ~ 13:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I feel this is a unique case, in that Wikipedia is being used directly. If scammers learn they can't send people to Wikipedia to "verify" their emails, they'll turn elsewhere, and this becomes a self resolving problem. Wikipedia community does care about their site being used to scam people, right? 173.59.201.71 (talk) 13:56, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- To the average non-technical user, it does. Someone sees a link to a trusted website, and they automatically assume the email is genuine. It's called social engineering. 173.59.201.71 (talk) 14:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- When it comes to it this isn't "Wikipedia - World police". Caveat lector applies both with Wikipedia and spam emails. Fraggle81 (talk) 14:04, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's very arguable. By your logic, IMDb would need anti-piracy notices on all its pages because torrent sites tend to link to IMDb on pages where you can illegally download a movie. Hospitals would need to constantly hand out flyers because Viagra-spam says "proven by doctors". You see where I'm going. All that withstanding though, mentioned policies apply. I'll stay out of it (action wise) for now, though. ~ twsx talkcont ~ 14:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- When people are at a piracy website, they know they're getting pirated films. Viagra spammers don't send people to a hospital to get Viagra. The best precedent I can actually think of would be Western Union. Because Wester Union at grocery stores, etc. is being used "directly" by scammers (in that they send their victims there), Western Union now has flyers/pamphlets at the Western Union counter discussing the different scams which actively take place and leverage Western Union. 173.59.201.71 (talk) 14:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's very arguable. By your logic, IMDb would need anti-piracy notices on all its pages because torrent sites tend to link to IMDb on pages where you can illegally download a movie. Hospitals would need to constantly hand out flyers because Viagra-spam says "proven by doctors". You see where I'm going. All that withstanding though, mentioned policies apply. I'll stay out of it (action wise) for now, though. ~ twsx talkcont ~ 14:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Following the IAR flowchart... Does it break the rules? Yes -> Does it break the rules because the rules are wrong? No -> Are you sure this change is a good change by common sense and it improves the encyclopedia? Yes -> Ignore the Rules. The true contention here then is, "Are you sure this change is a good change by common sense and it improves the encyclopedia?" If Wikipedia is being used directly by scammers, then it only makes common sense to subvert their efforts and act accordingly. Does it improve the encyclopedia? Yes, in that it provides information which is critically needed by someone who will be visiting the page as a direct result of a scammer sending them an email, as well as raise awareness for others. Hence, my justification for WP:IAR 173.59.201.71 (talk) 14:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's also important to note, I am not the only person who has attempted to add information warning of the scam emails. 173.59.201.71 (talk) 14:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
173.59.201.71 (talk) 16:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Like I just said, the Talk page is clear enough. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 16:54, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with DESiegel. There is no conceivable reason to keep this factoid in. Drmies (talk) 21:29, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Vnisanian2001
Vnisanian2001 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) Warned for years and blocked twice in August 2013 for disruptive editing. Continued warnings since most-recent block have not eliminated behavior.
Most-recent edit to Bad (Michael Jackson song) includes revision that does not match information tagged with referenced material in prior revision, corroborating pattern of behavior in disruptive editing. Although reference linked in article shows 1987, unsigned message from the user left on my talk page as well as the article talk page shows user still does not understand WP:V despite warnings as far back as 2011. Additionally, the song in the topic of the article was not even recorded until 1987 and was released later that year in September, details that call into question the user's WP:COMPETENCE as the user is suggesting the music video was filmed during 1986, prior to actual recording of the song.
Multiple other talk messages not adhering to WP:~ are further examples of user not meeting WP:COMPETENCE.
AldezD (talk) 18:02, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Problem with an editor
I asked a question regarding the Olympics articles here: [[139]] and I'm having a problem with one of your editors. How do I deal with this, since I'd appreciate a straight answer to the question rather than the sophomoric responses that I've been receiving (in other words, this guy's being a dick. Thanks. 24.212.139.102 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- First of all, while not exactly a personal attack I do discourage you from linking meta:Don't be a dick in reference to someone, it's only likely to inflame the situation. In any case, my advice is to speak with the WikiProject Olympics people. They help make decisions about Olympics-related article, including what we use as naming conventions (they have a Manual of Style though I couldn't see anything there to address your specific questions). They could better answer your questions and hopefully you'll receive a more helpful response there. -- Atama頭 19:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Good advice on talking to the Olympics project folks which I'll do when I get a chance, but I'd still like this guy dealt with (I realize that it's probably not serious enough for you to officially sanction him, but perhaps a stern talking-to? If you check his talk page, it's not the first time that he's come into conflict with other editors. And on the topic of talk page, I find the banner at the top of his to be offensive, and probably not the best way to project the image of a kinder, gentler wikipedia). It's people like him that discourage people like me from becoming regular editors, and from what I understand there have been concerns about declining numbers of wikipedia editors, so it seems to be that it's incumbent for admins such as yourself to take a more proactive approach when dealing with disruptive elements like him. Thanks for the reply. 24.212.139.102 (talk) 21:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're correct. Lugnuts has come into conflict into the past because of their communication style. It can and should be improved, though enforcing conduct on a person is difficult. I could drop a suggestion on Lugnuts's user talk page, but I doubt it will be received with anything short of dismissal, judging by their history. While rude, the editor's responses to you didn't measure up to a personal attack either, so there's not much that can be done at the moment. The banner at the top of Lugnuts's user page could be offensive to some people, but Wikipedia is not censored, the banner isn't directed at a particular person or group of people, and if you click the link at the top of the banner I think that the banner is a quote from a comedy series, not an actual message to anyone.
- Good advice on talking to the Olympics project folks which I'll do when I get a chance, but I'd still like this guy dealt with (I realize that it's probably not serious enough for you to officially sanction him, but perhaps a stern talking-to? If you check his talk page, it's not the first time that he's come into conflict with other editors. And on the topic of talk page, I find the banner at the top of his to be offensive, and probably not the best way to project the image of a kinder, gentler wikipedia). It's people like him that discourage people like me from becoming regular editors, and from what I understand there have been concerns about declining numbers of wikipedia editors, so it seems to be that it's incumbent for admins such as yourself to take a more proactive approach when dealing with disruptive elements like him. Thanks for the reply. 24.212.139.102 (talk) 21:10, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- You're going to run into rude people on Wikipedia, just as in real life, I do all the time too (in both places) and sometimes you have to work with them. I do encourage you to create an account despite that, as it will help make the site more accessible to you and it will improve the way that others react to you if you have a verifiable edit history (I wish people treated IP editors better but there will always be a bias). I think from your conduct here and the good questions you raise at the article talk page that you have a lot to offer the project. -- Atama頭 21:33, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm going to agree with the user above that the treatment you got from User:Lugnuts is rude, inappropriate, and sadly not the first time that editor has tasted the newbies. That said, it's at the lower end of the spectrum and any form of sanction we could impose probably won't stick. If it's any consolation, looking at the discussion, it reflects a lot more positively on you than it does on them. Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC).
user:Zmaher
I don't know what to make of Zmaher. While I can only assume they want to help, a lot of their edits leave a lot to be desired. They do not communicate whatsoever (see talk page: a long list of messages and warnings without any reply) and they do as they see fit. I reported them earlier at AIV too, which did lead to a personal message. That was mostly about adding copyrighted material, but even now Zmaher doesn't follow suit. Adding a lot of trivial information on concert tours for instance: here, here and here. He was also issued some warnings on not playing the genre warrior. I don't want to see Zmaher go, their edits on Russa-United States relations for instance are often constructive (albeit, they do lack a source). But with their no-regards-for-others attitude, these edits aren't helping at all. --Soetermans. T / C 20:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Comment- having reviewed a lot of their edits, there appears to be an issue with competence. They were given a final warning by PhilKnight in October 2013 for disruptive editing (including copy vio), they never use edit summaries despite some large changes to articles that all end up reverted, and refuse to engage with other editors. Flat Out let's discuss it 00:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- They wouldn't be the first one to find discussion problematic. Why some feel that way I cannot guess. Soetermans, you don't want to see them go, but what do you want? PhilKnight warned that they might be blocked if they're edit warring again, and a kind of edit warring is going on in Wherever We May Roam Tour and Nowhere Else to Roam. On the whole, their behavior seems on the low end of the disruption scale, though I have yet to see a net positive. Perhaps Phil can comment and tell us if this (mild) edit warring half a year after his last warning is reason enough for a block. Don't get me wrong, there may well be other reasons for a block (the trivia, etc.). Drmies (talk) 03:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I would say a block might be in order. Two weeks or something, I don't know. Just so that they finally get the message. By their contributions, we can assume they must've spotted a new message pop-up that mentioned this here discussion. Instead, Zmaher edited the Russia-United States relations article again, which has already been undone. --Soetermans. T / C 13:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
TheRedPenOfDoom
Revocation considered but not granted. Let's close this before the boomerang fish start flying. Such action as could be precipitated by said fish can be taken without the help of the dramah boards. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Reports of multiple vandalism and edit wars on talk page. Consider revocation of edit rights and blocking of this user. User_talk:TheRedPenOfDoom — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bides time (talk • contribs) 21:28, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Reports by editors who haven't read WP:NOTVAND or WP:3RRNO. Some background to this dispute: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shannon Bohle and [140]. --NeilNtalk to me 21:37, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Please note that false accusations of vandalism as you made here are possible grounds for sanction to yourself. Be very careful not to accuse another editor's edits as "vandalism" unless you are 100% sure that they are only acting to damage Wikipedia. In this case, TheRedPenOfDoom was making changes to the page in an effort to maintain our biographies of living persons policy, which requires that we be particularly careful to ensure that all information on such biographies is properly sourced. There is no policy against editing an article during a deletion discussion, in fact it is quite common and is often done to demonstrate why an article should be kept (by expanding the article and adding sources to establish notability. -- Atama頭 21:52, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose This is a totally uncalled for action. TheRedPenOfDoom has acted 100% within logical procedures. The article in question was an is seriously flawed, even if the subject might be notable (which I clearly do not think it is, I am the one who nominated the article for deletion, something I have only done a very few times). Actually, I also have to say I am beginning to suspect that Bides time may have a conflict of interest in editing this article. I might be seeing an issue that is not there, but at least one other person has at least wondered if their might be a conflict of interest involved.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose as per John Pack Lambert and Atama above. TRPOD has done nothing improper in any of the linked articles as far as I can see. WP:BOOMARANG time, anyone? DES (talk) 00:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Krutoi dezigner was repeatedly blocked for edit warring and personal attacks and when unblocked returns and continues where he left off
Blocked by Georgewilliamherbert |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Krutoi dezigner, A.K.A. User:G_PViB, A.K.A. User:Tempac3, A.K.A various IPs, has been repeatedly blocked for "abuse of editing privileges", "disruptive editing", "edit warring", "personal attacks or harassment", and "personal attack". Said editor was blocked for 24 hours on, 1 January 2014...and blocked again for one week on, 2 January 2014...and blocked for one month on, 10 January 2014...and blocked again for one month for , 25 January 2014. This time with talk page access revoked. This information can be verified on said user's Block Log, contributions and Talk Page (assuming he has not deleted the later).
He has returned and immediately resumed his edit warring and continues personal attacks. ie "Deleted edits added by a special boy..." This is nothing more than a reference to his past personal attacks. Such as referring to other editors as " mentally unfit to edit Wikipedia in a fair and balanced way. I remind you that even admins were banned from Wikipedia for mental episodes", " psychotic and a borderline autistic.", "psychotic imbecile (who lives with his mommy, I bet)", etc. Clearly, User:Krutoi dezigner believes that anyone who disagrees with him has mental health issues.--RAF910 (talk) 01:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Please disregard...User:Krutoi dezigner has been blocked indefinitely by User:Georgewilliamherbert for "Personal attacks or harassment: Immediate return to personal attacks after month long block expired".--RAF910 (talk) 02:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Tendentious IDHT even after mediation
HRA1924 blocked indefinitely by The Blade of the Northern Lights for "making legal threats, disruptive editing, and generally being tendentious". AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The India Against Corruption article has been subject to a lot of controversy due to the name been used to refer to a highly notable popular movement of 2011-2013 and also, on and off, by a non-notable underground arm of the Hindustan Socialist Republican Army. Various contributors claiming to represent the HSRA IAC have attempted to have the article look something like this, notably AcorruptionfreeIndia (talk · contribs) and the now-blocked open proxy 2001:4DD0:FF00:8A8B:0:0:0:5747 (talk · contribs).
They've made their attempts on the article itself and, more recently, via the Help Desk, WMF & OTRS, Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation/India_Against_Corruption (closing statement) etc. They've also tried routes such as RfC and WP:3O on the article talk page.
Now, they're back are HRA1924 (talk · contribs) (which should be blocked as representing an organisation) and there seems to be no end to their WP:TE, WP:IDHT, inability to understand how Wikipedia works, and continued use of chilling legal terminology such as "slander", "defame" etc (see, for example, their latest posts at Tiptoety's talk page linked above).
Do they have any other recourse? Have we reached the point where we should block on sight for a combination of NLT, meatpuppetry/socking, incompetence, not editing as an individual etc? - Sitush (talk) 11:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- User:Sitush has filed this ANI in violation of the notice at the top of this that this page is not to be used for "privacy related issues or potential libel/defamation matters"
- Our "Escalation of OTRS" is based on the suggestion from Phillipe Beadette of WMF after the mediation was closed [141].
- Our use of the "role account" "HRA1924" is strictly limited to availing grievance redressal processes Wikipedia offers. We are not editing articles or article talk pages. We are forced to adopt this route as the email/OTRS systems at Wikipedia has clearly told us on 19.Dec.2013 and 4.Jan.2014 that there is no "Central Authority" for redacting article content and WP:DR.
- IAC is forced to adopt such a route because Indian citizens who access Wikipedia through the .IN domain "wikipedia.in" (or otherwise) are being deprived of their legal rights to the centralised "Grievance Officer" they are entitled to by India's laws - this is a statement of fact and not a legal threat. Other US based Internet content providers have such a centralised system in place, and IAC uses it regularly to delete libelous content, and we confirm that the centralised "Grievance Officer" system works and works very well too.
- The main dispute in the article is whether "Anna Hazare" equates with "India Against Corruption". Sitush refused to discuss our sources, or the challenge we posed to the sources he used for his baseless claim. IAC regularly objects to news reports which equate Anna Hazare/Team Anna to IAC. For example today this [142] was corrected by the reputed news organisation to this [143]. And the change was carried out within 8 minutes of our email complaint (the emails of which are retained by us).
- IAC does not intend to interact with the Wikipedia community on this issue after the mediation was closed, we are following the processes the WMF indicates to us to get the defamatory text which was inserted solely by User:Sitush about us deleted or corrected. From now on we shall only interact with persons competent to assess our grievance and take suitable action.
- We are also advised, although we can't locate the WP policy just now, that if a party who has agreed to mediation drops out to avoid justifying/discussing his edits which are at issue - it is a behavioral issue for which that editor can be banned. We say that User:Sitush is such an editor who deserves to be banned.
- Sitush has been unable to show any other person who claims to be India Against Corruption. In fact Sitush has consistently said that our legal rights to the name / trademark "India Against Corruption" are not relevant to the content of the article.
- Sitush wrongly says that we are from HRSA - we are not. HRA and HRSA are 2 different animals (the Wikipedia article for this is incorrect).
- Sitush wrongly projects that we are an "underground" operation. We have denied it - and he could not prove it.
- Nobody has edited this article while claiming to be from HRA-IAC. Please show us such a diff. In fact we had specified at the start of our intervention that we have a conflict of interest which precludes us from editing this article.
- We have openly declared on the User Page that this role account is for a specific purpose. If Wikipedia has a problem with it, let the WMF provide us an alternative - such as a centralised Grievance Officer.
- Finally, we have not made legal threats. Our usage of terms like "defamation" and "slander" is to provide the policy basis for the BLP violations on this article. Sitush was unable to counter the sources /citations we provided wherein the defamed BLP subjects have publicly denied the libels they are RSS / communal persons. HRA1924 (talk) 13:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Right. As someone who has crossed paths with this before, I would like to say a few words in reply.
- They advised you contacted an OTRS admin only to complain about any OTRS volenteers; They have no other powers
- Per WP:ROLE, role accounts are not allowed
- Wikipedia is based in the USA, therefore has to follow US laws, not Indian ones
- True, the live version of the article appears not to mention IAC
- From what I can see, the WMF invited you to use OTRS only to complain about other OTRS users; My OTRS access rights do not include the -q queue though
- I am not aware of any such policy
- Yes. This is a private website, therefore you have to follow the rules of the website, which say that Everyone is equal
- As far as legal threats go, "defamation" and "slander" have very specific meanings, and are often not appreciated by many of the community, so I would avoid them whenever possible. --Mdann52talk to me! 14:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I filed this as a behavioural matter, not a privacy/defamation one. - Sitush (talk) 14:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- The account in question, HRA1924, indicates on its talk page that it "does not necessarily accept Wikipedia's Terms and Conditions". Any user which admits to being a role account, which throws around legal threats while denying that they are legal threats, and which does not accept the terms of use of the website should be indef blocked. If they want to work to resolve problems within the rules, they can do so, but otherwise they have no inherent right to edit here. BMK (talk) 14:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know much about this issue. I don't know what a "role account" is either, but anyone, such as user:HRA1924, who was (i.e. literally) born yesterday (on Wikipedia,) and who in his fifth or sixth edit has appeared on ANI and has written a twelve-point memorandum, looks suspicious to me. Sitush is being quite kind with these guys. The lead of the Hindustan Socialist Republican Association, for example, describes the organization as a "revolutionary" organization. In reality, they were a bunch of young men, only vaguely socialist, who had created a cult around sacrificing their lives violently fighting the British. They were part terrorist, part revolutionary, part cult, part idealistic youth, and part disturbed youth, whose real contribution to India's nationalist struggle was somewhere between zero and negligible. That is what the scholarly sources say. In India these days, it has become fashionable to discredit Gandhi and idolize these men. So, now they are suddenly "revolutionary" with deep knowledge of Marx, Engels, Proudhon, Saint-Simon, Paris Commune, Bakunin, Lenin, ... Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- The account in question, HRA1924, indicates on its talk page that it "does not necessarily accept Wikipedia's Terms and Conditions". Any user which admits to being a role account, which throws around legal threats while denying that they are legal threats, and which does not accept the terms of use of the website should be indef blocked. If they want to work to resolve problems within the rules, they can do so, but otherwise they have no inherent right to edit here. BMK (talk) 14:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I filed this as a behavioural matter, not a privacy/defamation one. - Sitush (talk) 14:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Please see [144]
- "Mediation is voluntary. Mediation aims to settle a question about Wikipedia content through guided discussion. Its result therefore requires the consensus of the participants in a dispute. Forced participation is incompatible with the nature of the mediation process, so we cannot compel a party to participate in mediation. However, the refusal by an editor to take part in mediation in conjunction with a refusal to discuss one's position vis-à-vis content may constitute edit warring or disruptive editing, to which the response is usually blocking by an administrator."
- Mediation is the ultimate formal dispute resolution policy at Wikipedia. Sitush was granted every opportunity to participate, after having agreed - in fact we all waited for him to recover his health - he refused to participate to defend his edits - which are at the heart of the content dispute. The final order in the mediation is that the mediation is closed because other parties did not participate. So legally speaking - the content dispute is decided in IAC's favour. Wikipedia is very much bound by India's laws in addition to US laws within India - WMF has a registered domain "wikipedia.in" which is the gateway portal for Indian users to access Wikipedia services.
- We agree that Wikipedia community is not competent to decide legal issues or jurisdictions. Lets leave matters to the WMF, now that the content issue is decided in IAC's favor and we are processing the deletion of the now settled content dispute under our pre-existing Email/OTRS. The OTRS volunteers were "incompetent" (which is not a deregatory term) at the time because there was no clarity then on the content dispute - unlike the present time.
- Insofar as ROLE is concerned, our real-world identity is verified through the email/OTRS exchanges or any other additional mode WP chooses to verify us by. HRA1924 (talk) 14:48, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- A word from the dispute resolution community about the voluntary nature of dispute resolution: I'm a very frequent volunteer at all levels of content dispute resolution. Participation in dispute resolution is always voluntary and no one may be compelled to participate. To say that backwards, failing to participate in DR is never a matter which should cause an editor to be blocked, banned, or otherwise sanctioned. That does not mean, however, that such a failure cannot be taken into consideration by an administrator or by the community in deciding whether or not an editor is editing in a disruptive manner or in a manner which is not in the best interests of the encyclopedia. Failing to take part in DR is not alone disruptive, just as failing or refusing to discuss one's edits is not alone disruptive, but it can be part of a disruptive pattern. On the other hand the reasons for failing to take part in DR can also be taken into consideration: Frustration with another editor's disruptive editing or other misbehavior can certainly justify a desire to simply not engage with it further. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, just trying to provide a conceptual framework. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks "Transporterman". We would like to supplement your comments. (BTW, its nice to deal with this is a neutral way as you do). Ours is a complex content dispute with many dimensions and sourcing issues, BLP violations (and potential BLP violations - when we consider that the individual's named in the article are not co-terminus with the organisation(s) they are affiliated to) in fact you had expressed exactly this on the archives of the article's talk page. It is undeniable (no matter what Sitush says) that our case has serious BLP, privacy, pptential libel issues. This is not the page to continue a concluded mediation dispute. The WMF has arranged the voluntary mediation facility where we could discuss/resolve the content dispute with the content's author Sitush. This is a structured formal process conducted under the supervision of a nominated highly experienced Admin like yourself. Sitush voluntarily agreed to participate. After the issue were framed (which is only the first step in a long process) he opted out and refrained from defending his edits. His reasons for opting out are irrelevant as he could have asked the Mediator to control / manage the process, or the Mediator could have intervened suo-moto. The factual position now is that Sitush has refused to defend his edits, his sources or controvert the counter-sources we provided in Wikipedia's ultimate formal dispute resolution process, and hence either WP community or WMF is obliged to delete his contributions to the article about us. We also point out that Sitush had repeatedly tried to "POV_FORK" the article whoich we objected to as we are the legal right users and trademark holder for "India Against Corruption". Sitush also failed to controvert the sources we provided wherein the BLP subjects have refuted the statements added in by Sitush. HRA1924 (talk) 15:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I didn't "refuse to defend" my edits. I'd been defending them for months and at the stage you are referring to I simply gave up repeatedly restating my position and repeatedly trying to explain our policies to you. I know that you do not accept those of our policies that you dislike but you cannot pick and choose. I specifically requested that someone pinged me if there was a new development, rather than us going round in circles. - Sitush (talk) 16:12, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- There is no requirement for the organization to delete the items as any editor can delete them if they are indeed BLP violations. That being said since this is a huge land mine area you will want to ensure they actually are BLP violations. If something is considered unpopular but still can be linked to reliable sources it may be included in the wiki as it meets the threshold for inclusion. If it is poorly sourced, the source has been misrepresented, or it utilizes original research would all be extremely prevalent ways to identify if something would violate these problems. So in short if you can show that the statement hasn't been attributed to a source BLP rules but if the individual has simply rehashed what an RS says it doesn't matter if it is unfavorable. Further legal threats are never the answer since all you are trying to do is create a chilling effect to get an end goal. Someone that is honestly looking into improving an article on anything should be done with reliable sources, patience and above all understanding that other people on here do as best they can with what they have on hand. If you feel that it paints a subject poorly you could always dispute neutrality and ask for an RFC which would yield much better results than wondering in and threatening people. Tivanir2 (talk) 16:52, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks "Transporterman". We would like to supplement your comments. (BTW, its nice to deal with this is a neutral way as you do). Ours is a complex content dispute with many dimensions and sourcing issues, BLP violations (and potential BLP violations - when we consider that the individual's named in the article are not co-terminus with the organisation(s) they are affiliated to) in fact you had expressed exactly this on the archives of the article's talk page. It is undeniable (no matter what Sitush says) that our case has serious BLP, privacy, pptential libel issues. This is not the page to continue a concluded mediation dispute. The WMF has arranged the voluntary mediation facility where we could discuss/resolve the content dispute with the content's author Sitush. This is a structured formal process conducted under the supervision of a nominated highly experienced Admin like yourself. Sitush voluntarily agreed to participate. After the issue were framed (which is only the first step in a long process) he opted out and refrained from defending his edits. His reasons for opting out are irrelevant as he could have asked the Mediator to control / manage the process, or the Mediator could have intervened suo-moto. The factual position now is that Sitush has refused to defend his edits, his sources or controvert the counter-sources we provided in Wikipedia's ultimate formal dispute resolution process, and hence either WP community or WMF is obliged to delete his contributions to the article about us. We also point out that Sitush had repeatedly tried to "POV_FORK" the article whoich we objected to as we are the legal right users and trademark holder for "India Against Corruption". Sitush also failed to controvert the sources we provided wherein the BLP subjects have refuted the statements added in by Sitush. HRA1924 (talk) 15:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- A word from the dispute resolution community about the voluntary nature of dispute resolution: I'm a very frequent volunteer at all levels of content dispute resolution. Participation in dispute resolution is always voluntary and no one may be compelled to participate. To say that backwards, failing to participate in DR is never a matter which should cause an editor to be blocked, banned, or otherwise sanctioned. That does not mean, however, that such a failure cannot be taken into consideration by an administrator or by the community in deciding whether or not an editor is editing in a disruptive manner or in a manner which is not in the best interests of the encyclopedia. Failing to take part in DR is not alone disruptive, just as failing or refusing to discuss one's edits is not alone disruptive, but it can be part of a disruptive pattern. On the other hand the reasons for failing to take part in DR can also be taken into consideration: Frustration with another editor's disruptive editing or other misbehavior can certainly justify a desire to simply not engage with it further. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, just trying to provide a conceptual framework. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Please see [144]
Why are we wasting time over this pseudolegalistic bollocks? Block HRA1924 indefinitely per WP:NLT and WP:NOTHERE, and be done with it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's what I'm doing now; there's no need to waste our time on bullshit like this. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Add issues with the user name as well. "We" is used several times - it definitely represents the group and may (or may not) be shared. And the disclaimer on their user page about not necessarily accepting the terms and conditions is interesting. Ravensfire (talk) 17:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Photo vandalism
Indef'd. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Hi, I noticed some strange edits from Fanboy165. User added a few pictures to articles, but the pictures have nothing to do with the subjects. Here are the photos in Commons. The photo at Fijit Friends doesn't depict a toy, it depicts Dora the Explorer. The photo that was added to Blue's Room is a screen capture from the bottom of Amazon.com. No blue dog is depicted. (I have nominated this pic for deletion, but not the others.) And this screencap doesn't depict anything of note, nor is it used anywhere of note. I don't believe the user is here to build an encyclopedia. For example, here. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I would suggest reverting them, explaining why you did so, and tag the images on commons, as they are probably copyright violations to some degree, anyways. I wouldn't tag them as having ill-intent, but they seem to want to help, so we should give them the benefit of the doubt here before scaring them off. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 19:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Looking at all of their edits, they are 95% vandalism; not "oops I didn't know" vandalism, but intentional vandalism. I've blocked indef as a vandalism-only account. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:27, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for catching that, as I didn't go in-depth into their edits before I wrote that. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 21:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Dispute at V. S. Naipaul
There is an ongoing dispute over editorial control and overall direction at V. S. Naipaul. The primary issue is one of apparent WP:Own behavior on the part of User:Fowler&fowler. Fowler&fowler has been actively editing the page since September 2013, and the page has been tagged as under construction for over a month. While he has certainly added a lot of referenced content to the article, in the course of his edits, Fowler&fowler has removed nearly all content, including references, added by other editors.dif This removal includes the removal of all criticism of Naipaul. Fowler&fowler has been dismissive of concerns raised on the talk page (dif1dif2), and he has recently insisted that he have sole editing control of the page for a month.dif, and that discussion and debate be put off until he is finished.dif.
While Fowler&fowler has preemptively declared this a 'frivolous, indeed tendentious and disruptive, conflict resolution'dif, from my perspective, the development of the V. S. Naipaul article is being stunted by Fowler&fowler's actively discouraging other editors. I understand that placing an article under construction gives an editor some leway to make major changes, but in this instance, I believe Fowler&fowler has overstepped the purview of construction.Dialectric (talk) 18:49, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Fowler&fowler's reply: Since it began life in 2001 until early September 2013, the V. S. Naipaul page had remained one of the shabbiest biographies of any literature Nobel laureate on Wikipedia. On 13 September 2014, just before I began to expand it, with a view to ultimately making it a Featured Article, it had two sections and 1,000 words. The first section had gossip as is painfully obvious here and the second section, if you scroll down further, was nothing but a copy and paste from nobelprize.org, with one or two token sentences of criticism. I made a post on the talk page and proceeded to expand the article, explaining in my edit summary that I was removing some material temporarily, but that all that was relevant would be replaced in the expanded article including distilled paraphrases of the copy-and-paste quotes. In mid-October I had a family emergency—two members of my family, in quick succession, came down with serious long-term illnesses, one terminal. By early November it became obvious to me that it was becoming difficult to both attend to Wikipedia and the Real Life stresses caused by the illnesses, not to mention my other real life commmittments. I made put a Wikibreak message on my user page and my talk page. At that point the article had reached this state (there was an underconstruction tag in place, and it had been expanded to almost 2,000 words of plain text). In mid-December, I extended the Wikibreak message until mid-February. On 20 February 2014, just as I was preparing to return, an editor, user:Chisme, who had not made a single edit to the Naipaul page reverted all my edits and restored the poorly written version of 13 September 2013. Soon user:Dialectric, who himself had not made any edits to the Naipaul page in four years (and three trivial edits before), joined user:Chisme. For the rest of the story, you can read the sections:
- I frankly don't know what to say. As my user page, user:Fowler&fowler shows, I have been developing content for a long time, including FA India, the oldest country FA on Wikipedia, where I have made over 1,000 edits, and collaborated with dozens, if not hundreds, of people (my 2,845 edits on Talk:India are a testament to that! :) ). No one has ever made these allegations before, certainly not dragged me to ANI. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- "Since it began life in 2001 until early September 2013, the V. S. Naipaul page had remained one of the shabbiest biographies of any literature Nobel laureate on Wikipedia." That is a POV matter of opinion. The people who made the 1500+ edits to V.S. Naipaul between its inception in 2001 and 14 September 2013 when Fowler erased the work of all editors before him would disagree. Fowler keeps claiming that my objections to his re-write have no merit because I didn't edit the article before him -- that is clear evidence of a Wikipedia:Ownership of articles violation. I have never seen an editor try to reserve an article for more than a week, much less several months. He is abusing the Major Restructuring tag. And I have never seen editor so vehemently object to any change whatsoever because he believes an article belongs to him. Chisme (talk) 21:51, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- Wouldn't WP:DRN be a better place to put this? Epicgenius (talk) 20:39, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I considered that, but the WP:Own issue I pointed out seems to me to be preventing a resolution of content issues on the article talk page, so from my perspective the issue is more one of conduct than content, and my understanding of WP:DRN is that it is for disputes where content is the sole/primary issue. Dialectric (talk) 20:54, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
- I see no problem with the current route the article is taking. If Dialectric or any other editor wants to add something more to it, they may suggest it on the talk page to avoid edit conflicts. Wikipedia has no deadlines and even better option would be if they actually turn to the article a bit later on and then probably they might not even need to make any suggestions. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 08:17, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Who adds those galleries of images? I saw such galleries were added into Subhas Chandra Bose article too. Tito☸Dutta 10:54, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- F&f adds them. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Its different. I kinda like it. But i guess sometimes it might not look good. For example, with my screen size 4 images (as in VSN) fit very well in a single horz line. But 2 images (as in SCB) create a lot of empty space. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 16:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- (To TitoDutta: It might be better to carry on this discussion on the Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose page.) I have followed the advice I was given during the FAC review of my FA Political_history_of_Mysore_and_Coorg_(1565–1760)#Subahdars_of_Sira.2C_1689.E2.80.931760 (see maps there). I have been away, so I hadn't noticed earlier that someone added half a dozen outsized images of the memorial in Manipur to the Bose page. I have now removed all except one, which I have moved to the "Death" section. The rest of the Bose article has mostly 4 images in each gallery, except two sections. I was trying to get some more images for those sections when I had to go away. I am back now. If I don't find more images, I'll change them to the regular WP format. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- PS (To TitoDutta) All galleries in Bose now in 4 picture format. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- (To TitoDutta: It might be better to carry on this discussion on the Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose page.) I have followed the advice I was given during the FAC review of my FA Political_history_of_Mysore_and_Coorg_(1565–1760)#Subahdars_of_Sira.2C_1689.E2.80.931760 (see maps there). I have been away, so I hadn't noticed earlier that someone added half a dozen outsized images of the memorial in Manipur to the Bose page. I have now removed all except one, which I have moved to the "Death" section. The rest of the Bose article has mostly 4 images in each gallery, except two sections. I was trying to get some more images for those sections when I had to go away. I am back now. If I don't find more images, I'll change them to the regular WP format. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Its different. I kinda like it. But i guess sometimes it might not look good. For example, with my screen size 4 images (as in VSN) fit very well in a single horz line. But 2 images (as in SCB) create a lot of empty space. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 16:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- F&f adds them. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 11:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Discovery of Downs Syndome cause reattributed by 'edit-a-thon'
Involved Editors: User:Rosieredfield and User:ChristophThomas
Involved Events: Wikipedia "Edit-a-thon"
Involved Pages: Jérôme_Lejeune and Marthe_Gautier
I would like to bring to your attention the page of Jérôme_Lejeune, a french scientist who discovered that an extra chromosome on the 21st pair caused downs syndrome. Very recently a group of people linked to the Wikipedia "edit-a-thon" have gone and edited this article and added links to interviews with a Marthe_Gautier who claims she discovered this. It's very troubling that an edit-a-thon is editing wikipedia in such a way.
I note that the only evidence this was discovered by either of them is;
J. Lejeune, M. Gautier et R. Turpin « Les chromosomes humains en culture de tissus » C. R. Acad. Sciences 26 janvier 1959.
In which J. Lejeune is named as the discoverer. M Gautier has just recently come out in interviews claiming that she made the discovery, however this is unverifiable and only happened after his death. Wikipedia's policy of No Original Research should come into play here and allow the page Marthe_Gautier to be deleted or stubbed pending a re-write, and for Jérôme_Lejeune to stay in its current form, as it is rolled back to 2013 Nov 18, which is before the edit-a-thon was created.
I note that the page for Marthe_Gautier is poorly written and reeks of argument. I am worried about an incoming edit war from the people from the "Edit-a-thon"
I think someone needs to monitor these pages for misleading edits and have a talk with named editors. Also, 'edit-a-thon's' for a particular cause, for any reason, are not constructive. Especially if a cause is political in nature, i.e., women in STEM fields.
Best Regards, Luke Martinez L32007 (talk) 18:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Regarding the Marthe Gautier article - it should probably be moved to AfC until it is ready for primetime. However a dispute over credit for discovery could very well be notable - keeping in mind we need to correct the WP:NPOV issues in the article. Some of the sources compel me to think this article should be on wikipedia in some form. Simonm223 (talk) 18:21, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- "Women in STEM fields" is a political cause now? LizRead! Talk! 18:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- The edit-a-thon is political in nature? They wouldn't be doing vandalising pages to promote falsehoods if they weren't feminists, what's the problem with calling it as i see it? L32007 (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've contested your proposed deletion on principle. You put a prod tag with the summary, "Added deletion request. Do not remove. Discuss on talk page." Proposed deletions must be uncontroversial, and if anyone objects at all to the page deletion then the prod is invalid. Ironically, your proposed deletion was self-defeating because you were effectively admitting that it was controversial by demanding that nobody remove the tag (which you cannot do) and asking people to discuss the deletion on the article talk page (which, again, demonstrates the controversy of the deletion). If you want a deletion discussion for that article (which I don't object to) you must take it to articles for deletion. -- Atama頭 18:27, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note taken, Thanks for that, I'll look to that. The page is poorly written and has redundent titling. Also Something needs to be done about the content, if she isn't telling the truth, and the only evidence we have is her interviews, she's not notible for wikipedia. L32007 (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
@L32007 : "In which J. Lejeune is named as the discoverer." there is no such claim in the sources you cite - if you would have spend the time reading the source you would know that. And no - I am not anywhere near any group - if you would have had a look at my contributions you would know that too. The controversy is out in the open for a while now (since 2009) and has been in each reputable French newspaper (Le Monde, Liberation, La Croix) Of course you would have known this is if ... christophe (talk) 18:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just clarifying that I don't disagree with Atama at all. I only suggested move to AfC because the article is so clearly under construction currently. Simonm223 (talk) 18:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- The source i cite is the publication by J. Lejeune OF his discovery, now that he is deceased M. G. is coming out to newspapers and going for interviews -- that can't be a reliable source, just because it was said in a newspaper by the person who claims credit now, 50 years after the discovery does not make it true. As for your claim that you are not in such group, please see the relevant section of the groups page. L32007 (talk)
- oh sorry Lejeune's own publication ... in that case! I was referring to the original publication of the discovery. christophe (talk) 19:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
It sounds like this is a content dispute, not vandalism or bad faith edits and so, as Atama says, this conversation should be moved to the article talk page or, if that discussion isn't constructive, move to the dispute resolution process. It doesn't sound like there is any call here for admin action. Liz Read! Talk! 22:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have participated in six or seven Edit-a-thons, and they are simply gatherings where experienced editors and newer editors meet to discuss editing Wikipedia, and then do some editing. These events help in recruiting and training productive new editors. If 20 or 30 people are sitting around tables editing on laptops, it should not be surprising that some of the contributions will be excellent, and some will be . . . not so good. Don't blame the Edit-a-thon concept for some poor edits, as Randy in Boise and his legions of POV pushing clones are perfectly capable of making poor edits while all alone. Cullen328Let's discuss it 08:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- An article in the 14 February 2014 issue of Science suggests there may be something to Marthe Gautier's claims. But we can't put a conclusion about this in Wikipedia's voice until reliable sources make a finding, assuming that they ever do so. Getting witnesses to recall the details of what happened in a lab 50 years ago may be tricky. Assuming this gets widely covered, the dispute itself may be notable. You may be not be able to read the full Science article due to the paywall. Another version of the story is on a news site operated by Science, "After More Than 50 Years, a Dispute Over Down Syndrome Discovery". EdJohnston (talk) 01:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Why is the Edit-a-thon being blamed for this? If anything, it's the editors themselves, not the event, logically. Epicgenius (talk) 01:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think the women-in-wikipedia editathon played a major role in these edits, since most of the edits were made by me well before the editathon. I did put a link to the Marthe Gautier page in one of the lists of pages that could be edited by participants in the editathon, but I don't think anyone followed up on this. I agree that the primary dispute is about content. Rosieredfield (talk) 23:55, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Levotb and slow-moving POV-pushing
Yesterday, I was doing some anti-vandalism patrolling on STiki, and I ran into the article for Al Melvin (politician), which was undergoing some vandalism at the time. It eventually was sorted out, but then I ran into Levotb (talk · contribs) and this edit. Again, it's nothing too extreme, but when I went back into their edit history, although they aren't as bad as some others, they have deliberately removed or mis-characterized information on the pages in order to fit their viewpoint. Edits such as this one (where they replaced "African American" with "black"), and this edit (where they replaced "Undocumented immigrants" with "Illegal aliens"), and this edit (where they removed all mentions of a lack of minorities in the film) show that something is up, and I was wondering if anyone thinks that they should be blocked for an obvious breach of policy. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 19:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Recommend you take this to WP:NPOVN. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 20:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I wasn't sure, as that page appears to be article issues, whereas this is for a specific user. Also, since this is vandalism in some ways, I wanted to make a note of it here. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 20:50, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi Ktr - I'd suggest engaging with the user on their talkpage about the issues you see, in pretty explicit detail. They're definitely acting from a particular POV, but they have few enough edits that they may not realize that's not appropriate on Wikipedia. I'd suggest giving them pointers to stuff like WP:NPOV, or even picking a particular edit of their's out and explaining the problems you see in it while making it clear that your objection is that it fails to conform to Wikipedia policy, and not a solely ideological one. Best, Kevin Gorman (talk) 02:42, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay, will do. Thanks for the suggestion! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
President of Ukraine issue
This issue regards the article President of Ukraine. Mandz orp keeps adding "disputed" in the infobox for acting president Oleksandr Turchynov. They have done this so many times I would consider it edit warring. They have tried to make their point on the talk page but have no support from other users. In fact, many users have reverted, this including myself twice, and stated their opposition. I asked the user to gain a proper consensus to add "disputed" but they don't seem to care based on their most recent edit summary. Can an admin please remove the "disputed" from the infobox and temporarily protect the article, and explain to the user they must stop edit warring and discuss it until they have a consensus? Thank you. Fry1989 eh? 21:27, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Wehwalt, I thank you for protecting the page, but can you please explain why you have not removed the "disputed" claim from the infobox while there clearly is no consensus for that? Fry1989 eh? 21:46, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I protected the "wrong version", obviously. I was acting to put a stop to a budding edit war without deciding that. Discussion among editors should continue and people should discuss what will happen when protection comes off. Three hours isn't very long. I'm available to look on or stay out, as people prefer.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- And I give any uninvolved admin permission to change that as Fry1989 discussed, if they think it best, or if the dispute is resolved.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't believe you fully understand the problem. There is no consensus to add "disputed" to the infobox, not a single user supports this move by Mandz orp, but clearly this user has no intention of stopping adding "disputed" unless an admin is involved. With a complete lack of support, Mandz orp's insistence is already edit warring and vandalism, they have added "disputed" (or reverted back to Yanukovich as legitimate) to the article 8 times in the last 3 days against the will of many different users. That's why I brought this to the noticeboard in the first place. As I said on the discussion page, the issue isn't whether this user is right or wrong, it's that they have zero support. Fry1989eh? 21:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- And I give any uninvolved admin permission to change that as Fry1989 discussed, if they think it best, or if the dispute is resolved.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I protected the "wrong version", obviously. I was acting to put a stop to a budding edit war without deciding that. Discussion among editors should continue and people should discuss what will happen when protection comes off. Three hours isn't very long. I'm available to look on or stay out, as people prefer.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I'll try to explain, as an admin, why I think what Wehwalt did was correct (and why it's necessary for administrators to protect the "wrong" version when protecting a page). An administrator should not use their tools at any article where they are involved. Being involved means taking a side in a dispute or trying to expand or "fix" an article. If an administrator changes an article, and then protects it, they are basically misusing their tools by forcing their preferred change to the article to be in place when a non-administrator can't undo it. I think it should be obvious as to why that would be a bad thing. So an administrator who protects a page will leave it in the state it was in, making no judgment as to the suitability of the content, but simply preventing others from changing it (usually to stop an edit war). The only exception is in cases where the content of the article must be changed immediately, in the case of vandalism, violations of our WP:BLP policy, or some other problem that urgently needs to be fixed. Since this is not one of those cases, Wehwalt was following proper procedure by protecting the "wrong" version until the current dispute is sorted out on the discussion page. -- Atama頭 22:31, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I often take a different tack, reverting back to whatever version existed before the edit war began (whether I agree with it or not), then protecting. Kind of "forcing" WP:BRD. I've found that this is slightly less likely to reward an edit warrior who's edit warring against consensus, although there are no guarantees. If someone is edit warring against a clear consensus on the talk page, I'll warn them and then block them if they continue, instead of protecting the page. But in this case, I'm not actually seeing any consensus one way or the other, it seems to be one against one. I'm concerned that the person being reported is pretty clearly an SPA, but on the other hand, this is a pretty harmless thing to have in the article until an actual consensus emerges. So, more eyeballs and more discussion. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Yes, I can see that. But that pre-supposes that protection was the right course of action. I'm not involved in that particular issue but have seen this scenario and this use of protection several times. Surely, if the problem is one disruptive/POV editor trying to override consensus of several other editors and force through change and if the neutral application of protection results in the version preferred by that one disruptive editor, then surely protection is not the right administrative action. Other measures eg blocking the disruptive editor shoukd be taken. DeCausa (talk) 22:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- My thought was that it was pretty much what Floq said, the usual suspects in a slow-burning edit war, and that such is a time to disregard the behavior because it's senseless to spend the time deciding who is in the right when the important thing is that it be worked out, perhaps with Wikiprojects notified to provide more eyes. That was my focus.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well I have no place in such a discussion about methods, but I do thank everyone for their interest and most of all in removing "disputed" as it is not supported by a consensus. Fry1989 eh? 00:41, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
If full protection is the answer, protecting the lastest wrong version is the best path per Wehwalt / Atama. However, it this case [145], it was clearly one editor 3rr-"extended" (3 reverts ~26 hours -- close enough for Wikipedia work). A block at the time of protection wouldn't have been appropriate due to no 3rr warning (since taken care of by Beyond My Ken, but posting the warning would have been the next step. NE Ent 11:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Noor Pur Baghan
- Noor Pur Baghan (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Sajjad Altaf (talk · contribs)
Long term ownership and edit warring over the article, which Sajjad Altaf created and built largely from original research. The problem appears to have originated with the editor, and article, receiving mention in the New York Times. Rather than acknowledge the COI issues, there are accusations of bad faith directed at user Sitush. Without having observed the longer exchange between them, the appearance is that Sajjad may be inclined to this kind of editing, and believes other editors are trying to sabotage him or the project. JNW (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't think that there is an edit warring on my behalf as i do not think i broke any 3RR rule here, if any one of you administrators observe what happened today was that i opposed an article from being deleted which was proposed for deletion by Sitush. As soon as i opposed that proposal, Sitush started reverting all of my edits made recently on three pages Noor Pur Baghan, Maula Jatt and Dulla Bhatti, to me this was an act of vengeance not of a professional editor. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 21:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sajjad, edit warring is not synonymous with WP:3RR. I make many edits to many articles and you'll note that I've edited Noor Pur Baghan before today and I completely revamped Dulla Bhatti recently. I doubt anyone would dispute that the latter article is far, far better than it was before my revamp; some might quibble about the state of the former article but, hey, you cannot just write anything on Wikipedia, even if it is with the charitable intention of promoting a nondescript village somewhere (as you said on the article talk page).
- I don't think that there is an edit warring on my behalf as i do not think i broke any 3RR rule here, if any one of you administrators observe what happened today was that i opposed an article from being deleted which was proposed for deletion by Sitush. As soon as i opposed that proposal, Sitush started reverting all of my edits made recently on three pages Noor Pur Baghan, Maula Jatt and Dulla Bhatti, to me this was an act of vengeance not of a professional editor. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 21:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I was checking your contributions but I was doing so because I vaguely recalled seeing your name before & in relation to some problematic stuff (turned out to be because of the NPB article). There is nothing wrong with checking things out, especially if there have been causes for concern, and especially given that all these items have been watchlisted and, if you examine my edits closely, you'll see that I regularly maintain items on my list even though sometimes it takes me a few days to get to them. Hey, maybe the dedicated Sitush ANI will get its first report soon.- Sitush (talk) 22:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- As long as we're here, I also have a question re: this edit [146]. Do we include honorifics in article titles, based on the insistence of an article's creator? Here, too, I'm wondering about ownership and original research in a regrettably poorly sourced article. JNW (talk) 22:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- We should not. -- SMSTalk 23:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- Professor Iqbal Azeem is known as Professor Iqbal Azeem, i have never heard of referring to him as Iqbal Azeem, it's not an honorific anymore, it is part of the name as per WP:COMMONNAME. Common name is what a person referred to as most. It's like Alexander The Great, you will have to remove "The Great" from his name because it is an honorific but as per WP:COMMONNAME, you won't remove because it has become part of his name. Same way Professor has become part of his name. Iqbal Azeem could be anybody. Iqbal Azeem does not identify the person known as Professor Iqbal Azeem. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hey Sitush, problematic stuff you are referring to is being mentioned in NYTimes. I know it's hard to digest. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The problem here isn't Sitush, it's the adherence to unsourced content and original research. It's not how Wikipedia works. JNW (talk) 04:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I totally understand that but i still feel i am being singled out and targeted by Sitush, my vote to keep Phaphra was in good faith and it was not because Sitush proposed it for deletion. I honestly did not know that there are some well known authors whose work is not being accepted by Wikipedia. All i am saying is that the flurry of edits that he did reverting my edits after that was in response to that. It should not have been that way. He should not have made a personal vendetta. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Even if you're correct--and I don't think that you are--the situation would be defused immediately if you followed policy and removed the unsourced content you've added to articles. There are no editors forcing you to ignore Wikipedia guidelines, so it sounds as if you're acting against your own best interests out of stubbornness. JNW (talk) 04:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I totally understand that but i still feel i am being singled out and targeted by Sitush, my vote to keep Phaphra was in good faith and it was not because Sitush proposed it for deletion. I honestly did not know that there are some well known authors whose work is not being accepted by Wikipedia. All i am saying is that the flurry of edits that he did reverting my edits after that was in response to that. It should not have been that way. He should not have made a personal vendetta. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The problem here isn't Sitush, it's the adherence to unsourced content and original research. It's not how Wikipedia works. JNW (talk) 04:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Hey Sitush, problematic stuff you are referring to is being mentioned in NYTimes. I know it's hard to digest. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Professor Iqbal Azeem is known as Professor Iqbal Azeem, i have never heard of referring to him as Iqbal Azeem, it's not an honorific anymore, it is part of the name as per WP:COMMONNAME. Common name is what a person referred to as most. It's like Alexander The Great, you will have to remove "The Great" from his name because it is an honorific but as per WP:COMMONNAME, you won't remove because it has become part of his name. Same way Professor has become part of his name. Iqbal Azeem could be anybody. Iqbal Azeem does not identify the person known as Professor Iqbal Azeem. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 04:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- We should not. -- SMSTalk 23:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- As long as we're here, I also have a question re: this edit [146]. Do we include honorifics in article titles, based on the insistence of an article's creator? Here, too, I'm wondering about ownership and original research in a regrettably poorly sourced article. JNW (talk) 22:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Hosting a personal attack by another editor on a Talk page.
- Not resolved: see comments dated 28 February 2014 at end of this section. Johnuniq (talk) 09:11, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi. For several weeks now, I have been followed and harassed by an IP hopper making a huge range of unsubstantiated claims about my editing. This IP hopper has now posted a personal attack about me on the Talk page of User talk:Timelezz. This personal attack includes naming me in the thread heading. I have twice asked User talk:Timelezz over the last few days to delete this entire personal attack thread, but they have refused. I would like to know if I, or another editor, can delete this thread from User talk:Timelezz. Thank you for considering this request.__DrChrissy (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note that Timelezz requested advice at the help desk on this issue. I don't see any action being taken on it. Personally if it were about me, i would prefer to make a single response to such comments and then leave them there. If they are indeed completely unfounded, anyone who looks will be able to see this and the poster will only harm his or her rep, such as it may be. However, you are not required to do that. Perhaps if the thread was edited to make the heading more neutral, and remove the provocative language? DES(talk) 01:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've advised Timelezz and others who have received similar messages to remove the personal attacks, or to explain why they feel it is appropriate to allow their talkpages to by used by a blocked user to make repeated attacks on other editors. By the way, I've blocked the latest IP sock, who has fixated on DrChrissy as an opponent, and who is treating animal rights topics and Wikipedia in general as battlegrounds. A previous episode in January led to extensive rangeblocks that took out a lot of Western Australian IPs, and I have yet to discern an agenda other than axe-grinding. I think at least six IPs and an /18 range have been blocked in this month's episode. As Drmies and others noted in January, this is well past disruptive. I removed the attack on Timelezz's page on grounds of PA, DENY, etc., but Timelezz restored it and admonished me that he could manage his own page himself, thank you, so I let it stand rather than indulge in a pointless dispute. I will note that, while editors are given more latitude over their talkpages, it's not infinite, and it's still Wikipedia's talkpage in the end. Acroterion (talk) 01:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- And now I've blocked another IP manifestation at CYl7EPTEMA777's talkpage,who has his own interpretation of DES's remark [147]. Acroterion (talk) 02:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've advised Timelezz and others who have received similar messages to remove the personal attacks, or to explain why they feel it is appropriate to allow their talkpages to by used by a blocked user to make repeated attacks on other editors. By the way, I've blocked the latest IP sock, who has fixated on DrChrissy as an opponent, and who is treating animal rights topics and Wikipedia in general as battlegrounds. A previous episode in January led to extensive rangeblocks that took out a lot of Western Australian IPs, and I have yet to discern an agenda other than axe-grinding. I think at least six IPs and an /18 range have been blocked in this month's episode. As Drmies and others noted in January, this is well past disruptive. I removed the attack on Timelezz's page on grounds of PA, DENY, etc., but Timelezz restored it and admonished me that he could manage his own page himself, thank you, so I let it stand rather than indulge in a pointless dispute. I will note that, while editors are given more latitude over their talkpages, it's not infinite, and it's still Wikipedia's talkpage in the end. Acroterion (talk) 01:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Note that Timelezz requested advice at the help desk on this issue. I don't see any action being taken on it. Personally if it were about me, i would prefer to make a single response to such comments and then leave them there. If they are indeed completely unfounded, anyone who looks will be able to see this and the poster will only harm his or her rep, such as it may be. However, you are not required to do that. Perhaps if the thread was edited to make the heading more neutral, and remove the provocative language? DES(talk) 01:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- An IP hopper has been abusing an editor for months—see here and here and here and here and here. There have been several other reports at places like WP:RSN and WP:COIN where the IP has used inflammatory headings and extravagant claims to attack editors. Timelezz apparently thinks that their talk page is available as a safe haven for the IP, however Wikipedia is not an exercise in free speech or liberty, and talk pages are not available to host attacks. If the IP wants to accuse an editor of something, they need to use moderate language, neutral headings, and do it on a suitable noticeboard—not article or user talk pages. One unfortunate aspect of encouraging the IP by restoring their attacks is that it means the IP will never learn how to collaborate, and so may never make useful edits. If the IP received a consistent message, they might adapt. Would an uninvolved admin please explain this to Timelezz and ensure that a reasonable outcome occurs. Johnuniq (talk) 02:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- And now another WA IP here, now removed [148], Drmies and I are part of DrCrissy's "gang". This one blocked too. Acroterion (talk) 03:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Acroterion, as a certified sock of me, and me being on Dr. Crissy's payroll, you are waaay too involved to be making such a block. Next time I'll take care of it. On a less serious note, I hate being given reasons to support registering as a requirement to edit. Drmies (talk) 05:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Leaving DrChrissy out of it for the moment, you/we are a mighty funny-looking woman, though the Acroterion version has more hair. Acroterion (talk) 12:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- While the IP range is allocated to a company registered in Perth, Western Australia, it is likely that this is accurate, namely that the IP is in Sydney. However, that's not important—can we please focus attention on whether an editor has the right to restore an attack on their talk page. The IP is using User talk:Timelezz to post unfounded accusations. Thoughts? Johnuniq (talk) 06:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Isn't the short answer to DrChrissy's question "I would like to know if I, or another editor, can delete this thread from User talk:Timelezz", yes ? DrChrissy could have deleted that comment per WP:TPO since it is a personal attack and they don't need anyone's permission. That is my understanding anyway. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's what I think, but the problem is that the owner of the talk page reverted the removal of the attack (Please, don't touch MY Talk page), and left a rather strong message on the talk page of the offending editor (Moderating Talk pages). Further, by restoring an attack, Timelezz has endorsed the attack. Johnuniq (talk) 07:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's very simple: the offending posting was made in evasion of a block, so it can be removed. If Timelezz wants it restored, he can only do so by personally endorsing everything said in it. But if he does so, he will be treated as responsible for every form of abuse in it – i.e. he will be treated as if he himself was attacking and harassing the complainant. In other words, if he restores it one more time, I will block him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's what I think, but the problem is that the owner of the talk page reverted the removal of the attack (Please, don't touch MY Talk page), and left a rather strong message on the talk page of the offending editor (Moderating Talk pages). Further, by restoring an attack, Timelezz has endorsed the attack. Johnuniq (talk) 07:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Isn't the short answer to DrChrissy's question "I would like to know if I, or another editor, can delete this thread from User talk:Timelezz", yes ? DrChrissy could have deleted that comment per WP:TPO since it is a personal attack and they don't need anyone's permission. That is my understanding anyway. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Acroterion, as a certified sock of me, and me being on Dr. Crissy's payroll, you are waaay too involved to be making such a block. Next time I'll take care of it. On a less serious note, I hate being given reasons to support registering as a requirement to edit. Drmies (talk) 05:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- And now another WA IP here, now removed [148], Drmies and I are part of DrCrissy's "gang". This one blocked too. Acroterion (talk) 03:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I'm fine with the resolution. As I've said before, I doubted whether this was to be considered a personal attack. I was against other users moderating my Talk page as long as I doubt it is a personal attack. I've said to respect moderator's decision. I notice that a moderator agreed that, other than requested, removal of the whole thread is unappropriate. The moderator removed some sections that s/he considered a personal attack. Of course I abide to that. I think this approach is very well in line with Wikipedia:USERTALKBLOG. Kind regards, Timelezz (talk) 11:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Moderator? Nil Einne (talk) 12:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks Timelezz for the graceful response; I guess we can call this situation resolved then, right? Fut.Perf.☼ 13:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with FPaS. It'simportant to note that Timelezz has made it clear (to me at least) that Timelezz doesn't support the IP's attacks on DrChrissy. As for CYl7EPTEMA777, their English skills make them hard to interpret, so I've been giving them the benefit of the doubt. Acroterion (talk) 13:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Timelezz: Thanks, that's good, but please give the underlying issue some more consideration. If someone goes to your talk page and writes "User X is a liar", that is a personal attack. The norms used by the community are very easy to understand as they are all based on the need for collaboration. It's fine to use a noticeboard to say "User X has made many statements which they must have known are wrong [link to examples]", but what do you think would be the eventual outcome if it became acceptable for editors to write "X is a liar" (and other insults) on various talk pages? Johnuniq (talk) 21:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am afraid I can not agree that this matter is resolved. Timeleez has now posted on a separate thread of his Talk page ("Notice") a thanks to the adminstrator who redacted parts of his talk page. In his thanks, Timeleez posted "And I applaud that you only removed the sections that were refering to words as 'lie', and did not remove a reference to "an original research case", which I agree, can not be considered as a personal attack." This is clearly an open support of the unfounded accusation of OR made by the IP hopper - and is in effect, posting such accusation, as indicated in the discussion above. If Timeleez wishes to bring a case of OR against me, then do that on the appropriate page with the appropriate evidence - which will not be found. If not, I would like this comment redacted. I wonder whether by drawing specific attention to this aspect of the IP's original attack, Timeleez is in further breach of policy and perhaps inviting more punitive action.__DrChrissy (talk) 22:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is where the wikilawyers have got you over a barrel. The comment from the abusive IP that is still visible says:
- Hello, just let you know that there is an original research case of DrChrissy on the notice board.
- That wording squeaks by the requirement to not attack another editor, and the fact that the original heading used by the IP (which was an extreme attack) has been redacted makes the above "OK" in the eyes of the average WP:DGAF onlooker. Some editors regard an attack as a string of four-letter words, but the IP uses none of them. To my mind, a string of expletives is easily shrugged off as any rational onlooker will disregard it as an emotional outburst. The IP's completely unfounded but repeated accusations of "lies" and "COI OWN" are much worse as they attack the character of another editor. It is disgraceful that it has taken so long for these obvious attacks to be removed, and it is absurd that Timelezz still does not get it.
What is more concerning is that Timelezz's last comment on their talk includes the opinion that "other users [should not be] moderating my Talk page" and "DrChrissy requested me coercively". The former shows a complete misunderstanding of Wikipedia, and the latter is an unsubstantiated (and completely incorrect) personal attack. My guess was that FPaS was overlooking that because it is good that Timelezz has climbed down a fair way, and we are hoping that in time they will work out what collaboration involves. However, I am waiting for a response from @Timelezz: to judge whether pushing for further action would be desirable. Johnuniq (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I too was worried about the expression "DrChrissy requested me coercively" made by Timeleez. Timeleez has on many occasions stated that his native language is not English, so I was willing to accept this expression as being made in good faith. However, because of his continued attacks and support of IP harassment on his Talk page, I am now not so sure. It seems to be a highly loaded expression which suggests a high degree of understanding of the English language. Amongst all this, I have no idea why Timeleez has chosen this course of action against me - I think the only slightly adverserial contact we have had is on Marius (giraffe) where I inserted a [clarification needed] without giving an explanation because it seemed obvious to me. For some reason, Timeleez took exception to this.__DrChrissy (talk) 02:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Dear Johnuniq, DrChrissy did not just request me to remove the text, he added pressure to it saying "Could I suggest that for each minute you leave this thread on your talk page, you are tacitly supporting this personal attack. This will not be looked upon favourably should you or I raise a dispute." Implying consequences on inaction. Hence, I called this a coercive request. Neither have I climbed down anywhere. My position was clear from the beginning, and nothing has changed about that. Acroterion is completely correct to state that "Timelezz has made it clear (to me at least) that Timelezz doesn't support the IP's attacks on DrChrissy." Instead, it is DrChrissy who repeatedly, and still, is arguing that I am in support of the claims made by the IP hoppers. He says literally, "This is clearly an open support of the unfounded accusation". I consider this a distorted view of the events and an inability to see events in another way than black or white. He is free to be as much mistaken as he wishes to be. But please refrain from throwing words like "disgraceful" and "absurd" at me. Thank you. On that final note, I consider and will keep considering this topic as closed. Timelezz (talk) 11:10, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Dear Timeleez, it would be incorrect for you to consider this matter closed. The IP's unfounded accusation against me of OR remains on your Talk page, and your comment supporting this accusation also remains on your Talk page. Please remove both these or provide information so that I can refute what is now YOUR accusation. If necessary, I will open a separate AnI regarding this matter. This is not "coercion" or a threat - simply a statement of my possible future actions.__DrChrissy (talk) 16:54, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- This is where the wikilawyers have got you over a barrel. The comment from the abusive IP that is still visible says:
- I am afraid I can not agree that this matter is resolved. Timeleez has now posted on a separate thread of his Talk page ("Notice") a thanks to the adminstrator who redacted parts of his talk page. In his thanks, Timeleez posted "And I applaud that you only removed the sections that were refering to words as 'lie', and did not remove a reference to "an original research case", which I agree, can not be considered as a personal attack." This is clearly an open support of the unfounded accusation of OR made by the IP hopper - and is in effect, posting such accusation, as indicated in the discussion above. If Timeleez wishes to bring a case of OR against me, then do that on the appropriate page with the appropriate evidence - which will not be found. If not, I would like this comment redacted. I wonder whether by drawing specific attention to this aspect of the IP's original attack, Timeleez is in further breach of policy and perhaps inviting more punitive action.__DrChrissy (talk) 22:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Sudhan
Request denied. Take it to the talk page. Drmies (talk) 05:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A couple of editors ""sitush"" and "Smsarmad" have consistently deleted everything on the above referenced article due their personal prejudices, this article has been edited by numerous editors over the years and now only has a few lines due to these editors behavior. I request that they be banned from editing Trueblood (talk) 04:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Sudhan (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Currently, the most recent edit is by Trueblood786 (diff) and that appears to add a bunch of text sprinkled with "citation needed". There is no recent discussion on the talk page, but there is a claim from August 2012 that general sanctions apply to the article. Johnuniq (talk) 05:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Possible legal threat?
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CeredigionLawCentre (talk · contribs) has made this diff to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket. I can't tell if that is just a statement made by some sock or user involved in the ongoing Daft/AA block/unblock saga that seems to be consuming that page at the moment - of which I am largely ignorant - or whether it is an actual legal threat or some intention. As a member of the project, despite being very much ignorant of the Daft/AA matters, I didn't feel it appropriate to comment. Plus it's quite a light legal threat if it even is one. Thoughts? --S.G.(GH) ping! 12:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's not a legal threat. It was a one-time post (probably by a sockpuppet, though without knowing who it's a sock of there's no action to take in that regard). It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, it didn't reference what prompted the post, and didn't state any particular action that would be taken. It appears to be a random post, perhaps an odd trolling attempt. I also looked up "Ceredigion Law Centre" and while Ceredigion is a real place, I could find no evidence that the "Ceredigion Law Centre" is anything but fictional, so there's no need to block per WP:ORGNAME. My advice: ignore the post, and don't give anymore undue attention. -- Atama頭 17:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I hadn't seen this before I read the UAA report. Notwithstanding those issues, I blocked indef anyway, as between the name and the insinuations I don't think we need this person. Daniel Case (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you to both. I realise it was a bit of a wishy-washy "threat" likely connected to a sock of Daft or someone else who is involved in this apparent saga at WT:CRIC of which I have been largely ignorant. Thanks! --S.G.(GH)ping! 17:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't object to blocking, I don't see that the person was here for a constructive purpose. If nothing else, I'm sure they're a sock of someone. -- Atama頭 18:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you to both. I realise it was a bit of a wishy-washy "threat" likely connected to a sock of Daft or someone else who is involved in this apparent saga at WT:CRIC of which I have been largely ignorant. Thanks! --S.G.(GH)ping! 17:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, I hadn't seen this before I read the UAA report. Notwithstanding those issues, I blocked indef anyway, as between the name and the insinuations I don't think we need this person. Daniel Case (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Disruption of talk page by DHeyward
It is proving impossible to achieve any progress on the talk page Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming becauuse any discussion is continually diverted and hijacked. There are others besides DHeyward (talk · contribs) doing this but they are they one who I have explicitly warned there and have practically immediately started up again. This is a page under the climate change WP:AE sanctions.
At [149] you can see how one of them TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs) diverts the discussion then I warn DHeyward. However in [150] they are off supporting TheRedPenOfDoom in diverting the discussion again. This topic was raised before at Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming#Put in something about the notability of the topic but that was hijacked and turned into Talk:List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming#Rename and refocus to List of scientists that the media have used to inappropriately "balance" discussions of climate change by TheRedPenOfDoom and Ronz (talk · contribs). Dmcq (talk) 18:41, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- One cannot not consider how BLP will impact any future criteria. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Have you tried an RFC or dispute resolution? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 19:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Debating the same things endlessly on that Talk page is tedious, I know. I've been watching it for years and sometimes I have to take it off my watchlist just so I can see the wood for the trees. People feel very strongly about the issues it raises and some become disruptive to a greater or lesser degree. I don't personally think DHeyward and TRPoD are at AN/I level yet though. I would personally recommend taking a deep breath and getting back to what you were trying to do. Ignoring irrelevant posts and repeating relevant points is somewhat helpful. Remember, patience is a virtue! --Merlinme (talk) 19:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Have you tried an RFC or dispute resolution? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 19:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I can't find where I was disruptive. It's pretty clear that there is no consensus on who belongs on that list. It's kind of difficult to discuss how the list is notable without first determining who is on it. Cart before the horse, and all that. --DHeyward (talk) 19:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well- I can understand the desire to keep "redesigning page completely" discussion separate from discussion of a specific proposal. In the absence of consensus for "redesigning page completely" it's understandable that an editor would like to to focus on areas where it might be possible to get consensus to make incremental improvements. But I still don't think AN/I is the way to go because threads keep getting sidetracked. Threads getting sidetracked is pretty normal on that page, to be honest. --Merlinme (talk) 19:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- DHeyward isn't being disruptive from what I can see. I don't know what the criteria is for inclusion on that list but unless said person states where they stand on the topic, it should never be our mission to use references to come to our own conclusions, regardless of how reasonable they may seem.--MONGO 20:55, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The discussion topic was including notability in the lead. The criteria are listed at the top of the talk page. Changing the criteria is something separate and there was a section there for them to take their BLP concerns. The BLP concerns have nothing to do with the notability of the list. You have been sidetracked into considering those concerns. That is what they do all the time, they have ignored the course they shoudl take and just go in for disruption of progress on the list because they want it deleted but can't get that past AfD and if you look at any of the previous discussions since the last AfD the same thing happens. It is Gish Gallop and others have noted the disruption. Dmcq (talk) 22:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- That is a rather gross mischaracterization of my edits to the talk page. I also take issue with your characterization of motive and comparison to "Gish Gallop" as well as a characterization of "they." Not sure who "they" are. If you like analogies - I'd point out that "list criteria" is the Titanic. "BLP Policy" is the iceberg. "Notability in the lead" is the deck chairs. I'd argue that the attempts to rearrange/count/order/categorize the deck chairs while ignoring such obvious problems is more disruptive than addressing the immediate catastrophe. It's a time waster. --DHeyward (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- You should deal with your concerns in the separate section set up for you to discuss them. You are not doing that. You are disrupting an unrelated discussion. If you believe you can get agreement to what you want why bother with a discussion about the lead? Your change would require a change in the lead if agreed but it has not been agreed yet and you're not going to get agreement for the deletion of most or all the names on BLP grounds by sticking your concerns into a discussion about the notability requirements in the lead. I'm repeating myself yet again saying that to you as you simply ignore that and continue on and on like this. That is why I have raised this AN/I request. If you wish to not waste time then get your changes agreed rather than waste your time in something you think is a waste of time. Dmcq (talk) 00:18, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think its only in your mind that a discussion of list criteria for a controversial subject about living people could somehow be "not related" to BLP. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:48, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- It was a discussion about sources for notability of the list topic not the contents. Criteria for individual entries is separate and you could discuss those separately. There was no excuse for you to suddenly hijack such a discussion with your proposal 'Rename and refocus to List of scientists that the media have used to inappropriately "balance" discussions of climate change' and insist on it taking over rather than being split to a separate discussion. Dmcq (talk) 11:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Dmcq (talk) 11:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did not "hijack" the discussion. The subject was "Put in something about the notability of the topic". How do you put in something about the notability of the topic? - by showing what reliable sources say about the topic - which is what I did by providing a list of sources. Then by looking at what those sources were saying about the topic, it became clear that an alternate title would help align the title> with notability> with sources> and thence the criteria for inclusion. All "on topic" for moving the article forward. That someone else you , actually) decided to promote it to a section header and that multiple editors considered the suggestions worthy of continued discussion is certainly not me "hijacking" any conversation in a way that is detrimental to the article and its contents actually meeting our policies.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- It was a discussion about sources for notability of the list topic not the contents. Criteria for individual entries is separate and you could discuss those separately. There was no excuse for you to suddenly hijack such a discussion with your proposal 'Rename and refocus to List of scientists that the media have used to inappropriately "balance" discussions of climate change' and insist on it taking over rather than being split to a separate discussion. Dmcq (talk) 11:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Dmcq (talk) 11:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think its only in your mind that a discussion of list criteria for a controversial subject about living people could somehow be "not related" to BLP. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:48, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- You should deal with your concerns in the separate section set up for you to discuss them. You are not doing that. You are disrupting an unrelated discussion. If you believe you can get agreement to what you want why bother with a discussion about the lead? Your change would require a change in the lead if agreed but it has not been agreed yet and you're not going to get agreement for the deletion of most or all the names on BLP grounds by sticking your concerns into a discussion about the notability requirements in the lead. I'm repeating myself yet again saying that to you as you simply ignore that and continue on and on like this. That is why I have raised this AN/I request. If you wish to not waste time then get your changes agreed rather than waste your time in something you think is a waste of time. Dmcq (talk) 00:18, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- That is a rather gross mischaracterization of my edits to the talk page. I also take issue with your characterization of motive and comparison to "Gish Gallop" as well as a characterization of "they." Not sure who "they" are. If you like analogies - I'd point out that "list criteria" is the Titanic. "BLP Policy" is the iceberg. "Notability in the lead" is the deck chairs. I'd argue that the attempts to rearrange/count/order/categorize the deck chairs while ignoring such obvious problems is more disruptive than addressing the immediate catastrophe. It's a time waster. --DHeyward (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The discussion topic was including notability in the lead. The criteria are listed at the top of the talk page. Changing the criteria is something separate and there was a section there for them to take their BLP concerns. The BLP concerns have nothing to do with the notability of the list. You have been sidetracked into considering those concerns. That is what they do all the time, they have ignored the course they shoudl take and just go in for disruption of progress on the list because they want it deleted but can't get that past AfD and if you look at any of the previous discussions since the last AfD the same thing happens. It is Gish Gallop and others have noted the disruption. Dmcq (talk) 22:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- 'It is proving impossible to achieve any progress on the talk page <-- There has been almost no progress in that article for at least one and a half years. Second Quantization (talk) 10:46, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Apparent anti-female bigotry
NOT MUCH ACCOMPLISHED, BUT TIME TO MOVE ON | |
OP indicates willingness to drop the subject --S Philbrick(Talk) 16:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please see the following comment from Giano, which is directed at administrator GorillaWarfare: "Well I am still rather mystified as to why GorillaWarfare permitted her "friend" to remove my talk page access. I was merely reinstating what she had removed by conflicting; in fact, I am puzzled as to why her friend was there at all, does he always walk two paces behind her? Is she some poor, feeble little woman incapable of acting alone? But then of course she needed a third man to help her place the block, so perhaps she is. Then again, was it a longed for arbcom revenge and they were all fighting amongst themselves to place it? Possibly even, Gorilla's not very good at placing blocks on her own and needs a cluster supporters to assist her in difficult tasks. Whatever, I'm reminded of a beloved aunt, who when arranging flowers, had a butler to hold the vase, a gardener to select and pass her the flowers, a maid to cut the stems, and three friends to admire her handiwork and artistry." (diff)
I realize that Giano is, perhaps somewhat rightfully, unhappy about the events that have transpired during the past few weeks, but these comments have crossed a line. Northern Antarctica (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Giano's personal attacks go far beyond that with [154] that edit "an extremely stupid woman and a little fish in a little pond" etc, along with those listed below, however as these attacks were done in full view of the Arbs, during an Arb proceeding, it may be best to let them handle it if they see fit. On the other hand, since the attacks were directed to the Arbs, perhaps the community should be the impartial judge in this case. [155][156][157][158][159][160][161][162]Gaijin42 (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can i just advise that when you are planning a topic here with your friends; it's best for them not to respond with 8 diffs within 7 minutes of the original post. People might just find that a little suspicious. Giano(talk) 21:04, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- It wasn't planned out. I have never interacted with Northern Antarctica in any fashion, on any page, article or discussion. I had put together the list of diffs previously during a discussion with one of the Arbs commenting that I was surprised your behavior hadn't resulted in a block. Though I certainly do not claim any credit for your block, since it was obviously the right thing to do and was approaching inevitability, you were blocked shortly thereafter by GW. Gaijin42 (talk) 21:07, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Gaijin42 is correct (and also a lot nicer than I was going to be). Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- It wasn't planned out. I have never interacted with Northern Antarctica in any fashion, on any page, article or discussion. I had put together the list of diffs previously during a discussion with one of the Arbs commenting that I was surprised your behavior hadn't resulted in a block. Though I certainly do not claim any credit for your block, since it was obviously the right thing to do and was approaching inevitability, you were blocked shortly thereafter by GW. Gaijin42 (talk) 21:07, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Can i just advise that when you are planning a topic here with your friends; it's best for them not to respond with 8 diffs within 7 minutes of the original post. People might just find that a little suspicious. Giano(talk) 21:04, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Giano's personal attacks go far beyond that with [154] that edit "an extremely stupid woman and a little fish in a little pond" etc, along with those listed below, however as these attacks were done in full view of the Arbs, during an Arb proceeding, it may be best to let them handle it if they see fit. On the other hand, since the attacks were directed to the Arbs, perhaps the community should be the impartial judge in this case. [155][156][157][158][159][160][161][162]Gaijin42 (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- There have been many heated discussions. It would have been better to let this remain on the user talk pages and die a natural death than for an uninvolved third party to bring it here.--Cube lurker (talk) 21:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Baloney. Some of us are tired of watching as Giano lashes out in all direction. He's made a mockery of civility and it will be an utter farce if he gets away with such a blatantly hateful remark as this one. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I rather think you'll find that it's the Arbcom who have made a mockery of civility recently. Giano(talk) 21:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps, but you don't even seem to know what civility is. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I rather think you'll find that it's the Arbcom who have made a mockery of civility recently. Giano(talk) 21:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Baloney. Some of us are tired of watching as Giano lashes out in all direction. He's made a mockery of civility and it will be an utter farce if he gets away with such a blatantly hateful remark as this one. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have already suggested to Giano's aunt, who sits high in the counsel of the Wikipedia elite, to give him some words of advice on behaviour similar to this. I hope she will do so. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Can anyone explain what this neverending cycle of infantile whining and facile namecalling has to do with producing an online encyclopaedia? AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:13, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Bigotry is a big accusation. Until we hear from both parties we should not jump to conclusions about something both parties might consider to be normal badinage between them. Leaky Caldron 21:18, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- It doesn't look like GorillaWarfare saw it that way [163]. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed, her twitter says much the same thing. "As much as I hate to say it, things like this make me miss the days where no one in my online communities knew I was a woman." & "Getting reeeal sick of some of the assumptions that are made about me, and those who interact with me, made based on my gender." Gaijin42 (talk) 21:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Could you provide a link or would that not be possible? (I'm not familiar with how Twitter works.) Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- NOT SURE THAT'S WISE. She might not appreciate a bunch of new followers from here. Leaky Caldron 21:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I Agree. I won't be posting the link (although its trivial to find, she left plenty of breadcrumbs). If someone doubts the veracity of my quotes, I can provide more personalized linkage or screenshots or something. Gaijin42 (talk) 21:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- NOT SURE THAT'S WISE. She might not appreciate a bunch of new followers from here. Leaky Caldron 21:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Could you provide a link or would that not be possible? (I'm not familiar with how Twitter works.) Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, because I know being called "an extremely stupid woman and a little fish in a little pond" is just normal, friendly conversation between two editors on WP.
- That said, unlike, say, having a sock account, it seems like admins are very reluctant to impose blocks for incivility despite how it poisons the atmosphere around here. Liz Read! Talk! 21:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed, her twitter says much the same thing. "As much as I hate to say it, things like this make me miss the days where no one in my online communities knew I was a woman." & "Getting reeeal sick of some of the assumptions that are made about me, and those who interact with me, made based on my gender." Gaijin42 (talk) 21:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Actually, I was considering posing a thing to the community for consideration to the effect of: "In the case of incivility/personal attacks against an experienced editor (where experienced means that they know enough to know where AN/ANI is and what the appropriate steps for reporting are), AN/ANI threads are not to be made by anyone other than the target of the incivility/personal attacks without their explicit blessing." GW is an adult and knows where ANI is; why are we making the choice of whether to start an ANI thread about this or not for her? This kind of white-knighting (so to speak) can do more harm than good at times. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just a thought, but maybe GW didn't post here because she's tired of dealing with Giano. Dealing with a bully can be emotionally draining. Should we just ignore the bullying because it wasn't the victim who pointed it out? Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Contrariwise, should we keep dragging out and calling attention to an issue that she doesn't want to hear about anymore? The best person to answer that is her; perhaps we should've asked her before doing so. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 21:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- You may have a point there. Either way, there is still an problem with Giano's conduct (and it wasn't just one post), which is what caused her discomfort in the first place. Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Contrariwise, should we keep dragging out and calling attention to an issue that she doesn't want to hear about anymore? The best person to answer that is her; perhaps we should've asked her before doing so. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 21:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Just a thought, but maybe GW didn't post here because she's tired of dealing with Giano. Dealing with a bully can be emotionally draining. Should we just ignore the bullying because it wasn't the victim who pointed it out? Northern Antarctica (talk) 21:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Recent events have been tumultuous, with absurd accusations from an admin, an arbcom case, motions, and attacks—and those were the good things. The matter has finally ground almost to an end, and now is not the time to push the train downhill again. Giano's intemperate outburst was highly inappropriate, but so were each of a dozen steps in the preceding chain. Johnuniq (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I get that he was upset, but how many other Wikipedians would make such a sexist remark under any circumstance? Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- ...is that a trick question? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- No. I've seen other veteran Wikipedians lose their cool and make unpleasant remarks, but I don't know that any of them ever emphasized the gender of the person they were displeased with in a scathing commentary. Giano used the term 'woman' in what seems to be a pejorative way. That's not ever acceptable. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- ...is that a trick question? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The instructions at the top of this page say "Before posting a grievance about a user here, please discuss the issue with them on their user talk page.". I see no evidence that Northern Antartica has attempted to do so. Eric Corbett 22:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Two questions re logic: Q1) If ANI threads re allowed to be opened by uninvolved third parties, what does that spell for future? (What if Northern Anarctica or some other user got an itch to play "civility cop" during the entire year 2014, there would be no shortage of uncivil remarks at their disposal. So we might have 2, 3, 4, or even 20 or more ANI threads opened per day by the third part executing their little hobby. That means perhaps 365 x 20 = 7300 new ANI threads in a calendar year, all from an uninvolved third party. This is the kind of chaos element to ANI that makes ANI the cesspool it is.) Q2) @Northern Antarctica, you included accusation in the thread name of "anti-female bigotry". Although in RL that is a serious offense, and I think so too, I'm curious ... on what *WP* basis do you base an ANI? (For example, in my Wiki-history I opened an ANI resentful of the fact that a user fabricated that I had called editors Dennis Brown and Elen of Roads "asshats" and "idiots", when I had never used those name-calls against anyone, ever, let alone those two users. When I complained about the fabrication, the false accusation against my character, I was told [by an admin] that Wikipedia had no classification for such a thing other than [general] incivility. I was told to see the fabrication as nothing more than incivility. Therefore, your claim of bigotry, unless you can provide a WP-basis for more, is nothing more than a form of incivility and s/b treated that way. Therefore you can drop the "big serious-sounding charge" from the thread title, since it isn't recognized in any WP policy -- only in an essay.) Your charge of bigotry has no significance in WP unless you can show that it does outside of being generally uncivil. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in your bogus wiki-lawyering. Anti-female bigotry is just as wrong here as it is anywhere else. Regarding your first question, let me know when you see me opening 20 ANI threads per day. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's a non-reply, Northern. The issue of third-party-initiated ANIs makes no sense, and I just provided argument why they shouldn't be permitted. And I'm not disagreeing with you bigotry is wrong wherever it is found, but so is a false fabrication that goes against someone's character, and I was told by admin the fabrication isn't covered by policy outside "general incivility". Ditto for bigotry, unless you can show otherwise, so your thread title has no significance within WP unless you can provide some, which you haven't. How about deal with the good-faith logical questions Antartica, instead of your uncivil mischaracterization because it doesn't please your agenda to be free to file uninvolved third-party ANIs? Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't consider it to be a fabrication. It is quite troubling that Giano would belittle GorillaWarfare while emphasizing that she is a woman. I'm not going to go digging for policies in order to demonstrate why something is wrong when it is obviously wrong. As for your argument about why third-party ANIs (and I'm not the first person to ever do it) should not be permitted, please provide hard evidence that your numbers are an actual reflection of what is going on. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- You miss the points, Northern. There is no WP basis for your "bigotry" claim other than "general incivility". And you totally misunderstood about "fabrication" -- that applied to me, not to Gorilla. (Hello! Read much?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- On the other point, I argued that uninvolved third-party ANIs should not be permitted, period. Because that is chaos. The fact that others might do it, doesn't change that it is still chaos and makes no sense to allow. (How about reading what I write rather than misconstrue meaning so frequently?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 23:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay. I see where I misunderstood about the fabrication part. My mistake. At any rate, I do not think it is necessary to have a policy that specifically spells out that anti-female bigotry is a problem and I will not be changing my opinion. Also, I disagree with your position on uninvolved third-party ANIs. In my view, it is more chaotic to insist that only the target of a vitriolic attack can report it. If you saw someone break into your neighbor's house and tried to report it, would the police ignore you simply because it wasn't your house? Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- My point is that you have no WP policy to stand on outside of "(general) incivility". The amount of incivility on WP is almost unimaginable ... To take a position that uninvolved third parties can file ANI threads, leads to a huge loss of community time/attention. For example you recently filed an uninvolved third-party ANI against *me*, and it went nowhere. It is a form of disruption, Antartica, you have a habit of doing this and you are the disruptor. Third-party ANI threads based on civility are nothing like a house burglary or forced entry that is potentially life-endangering, so that analogy doesn't compute. (Another broken part of your house break-in analogy is that you are presuming the homeowner wasn't home to call the cops? Well Gorilla "was home". Or the homeowner was home and you called the cops during the break-in because the homeowner wasn't able? Again, Gorilla "was able".) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- All analogies will break down eventually. At this point, we are just talking past each other. I get it. You dislike me. That's been obvious to me for a while now. At this point, I don't anticipate anything productive coming out of further discussion with you. Therefore, this is my last remark to you in this thread: I do not care at all whether or not WP policy specifically states anything about anti-female bigotry. It should not have to. Common sense is good enough. Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- No, not all analogies break down. (Though sound ones are not easy to create, granted.) Attributing the arguments I've made on your thinking and behavior to a personal dislike of you is tacky ad hominem Antarctica. (If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen of ideas, then get out of the kitchen.) Your arguments belong on The Jerry Springer Show. (And so does ANI generally. It is a cesspool of irresponsibility here, and cat-fighting is the accepted norm of quality of argument -- you've done nothing but provide additional demonstration of same.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Northern Antarctica: You claim there's a problem with Giano's comments. What have you done to rectify the alleged problem? Where's the diff of your attempts to resolve what you perceived as problematical? --RexxS (talk) 22:51, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Ihardlythinkso and Northern Antarctica: Actually, there is basis in policy to bigotry. It's found in the Wikimedia non-discrimination policy and all projects, including the English Wikipedia, must follow it.--v/r - TP 05:41, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- This?
Isn't it quite a stretch to assert that applies to this ANI? Ihardlythinkso (talk) 05:53, 28 February 2014 (UTC)The Wikimedia Foundation prohibits discrimination against current or prospective users and employees on the basis of race, color, gender, religion, national origin, age, disability, sexual orientation, or any other legally protected characteristics. The Wikimedia Foundation commits to the principle of equal opportunity, especially in all aspects of employee relations, including employment, salary administration, employee development, promotion, and transfer.
- Perhaps you're unaware. This applies on every Wikimedia server. Last I checked, ANI currently resides on a Wikimedia server. So that should satisfy your policy request from earlier.--v/r - TP 05:58, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- You miss my meaning. Even if Giano's comment was a sexist insult, I doubt it would fall under "discrimination" in the context of the Wikimedia prohibition statement (whose context is "equal opportunity"). Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps you're unaware. This applies on every Wikimedia server. Last I checked, ANI currently resides on a Wikimedia server. So that should satisfy your policy request from earlier.--v/r - TP 05:58, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- This?
- @Ihardlythinkso and Northern Antarctica: Actually, there is basis in policy to bigotry. It's found in the Wikimedia non-discrimination policy and all projects, including the English Wikipedia, must follow it.--v/r - TP 05:41, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- All analogies will break down eventually. At this point, we are just talking past each other. I get it. You dislike me. That's been obvious to me for a while now. At this point, I don't anticipate anything productive coming out of further discussion with you. Therefore, this is my last remark to you in this thread: I do not care at all whether or not WP policy specifically states anything about anti-female bigotry. It should not have to. Common sense is good enough. Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- My point is that you have no WP policy to stand on outside of "(general) incivility". The amount of incivility on WP is almost unimaginable ... To take a position that uninvolved third parties can file ANI threads, leads to a huge loss of community time/attention. For example you recently filed an uninvolved third-party ANI against *me*, and it went nowhere. It is a form of disruption, Antartica, you have a habit of doing this and you are the disruptor. Third-party ANI threads based on civility are nothing like a house burglary or forced entry that is potentially life-endangering, so that analogy doesn't compute. (Another broken part of your house break-in analogy is that you are presuming the homeowner wasn't home to call the cops? Well Gorilla "was home". Or the homeowner was home and you called the cops during the break-in because the homeowner wasn't able? Again, Gorilla "was able".) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 23:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Okay. I see where I misunderstood about the fabrication part. My mistake. At any rate, I do not think it is necessary to have a policy that specifically spells out that anti-female bigotry is a problem and I will not be changing my opinion. Also, I disagree with your position on uninvolved third-party ANIs. In my view, it is more chaotic to insist that only the target of a vitriolic attack can report it. If you saw someone break into your neighbor's house and tried to report it, would the police ignore you simply because it wasn't your house? Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I don't consider it to be a fabrication. It is quite troubling that Giano would belittle GorillaWarfare while emphasizing that she is a woman. I'm not going to go digging for policies in order to demonstrate why something is wrong when it is obviously wrong. As for your argument about why third-party ANIs (and I'm not the first person to ever do it) should not be permitted, please provide hard evidence that your numbers are an actual reflection of what is going on. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- That's a non-reply, Northern. The issue of third-party-initiated ANIs makes no sense, and I just provided argument why they shouldn't be permitted. And I'm not disagreeing with you bigotry is wrong wherever it is found, but so is a false fabrication that goes against someone's character, and I was told by admin the fabrication isn't covered by policy outside "general incivility". Ditto for bigotry, unless you can show otherwise, so your thread title has no significance within WP unless you can provide some, which you haven't. How about deal with the good-faith logical questions Antartica, instead of your uncivil mischaracterization because it doesn't please your agenda to be free to file uninvolved third-party ANIs? Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- But why have you decided to try and make an issue of this particular incident by screaming "bigotry"? What about "bigotry" against males, such as you and others like you demonstrate? EricCorbett 22:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am a male. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:45, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- What do you expect me to do? Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I expect anybody who brings an issue to ANI to have previously taken some steps to resolve their dispute. Which bit of
"What have you done to rectify the alleged problem?
didn't you understand? --RexxS (talk) 23:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)- It's not that I didn't understand it. It's more that I doubt that there is anything I could have done to persuade Giano that he was wrong. In retrospect, I suppose I could have left a note on his talk page, but you tell me how you think he would have responded? Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I expect anybody who brings an issue to ANI to have previously taken some steps to resolve their dispute. Which bit of
- What do you expect me to do? Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I am a male. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:45, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in your bogus wiki-lawyering. Anti-female bigotry is just as wrong here as it is anywhere else. Regarding your first question, let me know when you see me opening 20 ANI threads per day. Northern Antarctica (talk) 22:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Misogyny is present in an online environment composed primarily of single, white 18-35 males? I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. Tarc (talk) 22:51, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Tarc, seriously. Are you joking? You're going to say, with a straight face, that instances of misogyny should be ignored because our community is predominately male? Ed[talk] [majestic titan] 23:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The ed17, Actually no, I'm saying that it is a seriously institutionalized, entrenched problem in many electronic social spaces, from the Wikipedia to online gaming to Reddit, and a million others. I don't want to ignore it at all, just trying to point out how widespread it is, so my bad if it came out wrong initially. Tarc (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you for the clarification, and I'm sorry for jumping on you like that. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:25, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- The ed17, Actually no, I'm saying that it is a seriously institutionalized, entrenched problem in many electronic social spaces, from the Wikipedia to online gaming to Reddit, and a million others. I don't want to ignore it at all, just trying to point out how widespread it is, so my bad if it came out wrong initially. Tarc (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- An interesting argument, Ihardlythinkso. If you feel that uninvolved third parties should not be starting ANI threads, logic dictates that you should feel the same way about uninvolved third parties filing RFArbs. Except, of course, that you failed to express such a sentiment in your comments in the case just passed. It almost leads one to believe that your views on third-party intervention are completely malleable and change to suit whatever agenda you wish to push. Resolute 23:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Logic doesnt't dictate that, Resolute. (I didn't argue against "third-party filings" generally, which you're attempting to make me accountable for by broadening the scope of what I said, which was limited to no uninvolved third-party ANI cases based on CIV.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 00:30, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Tarc, seriously. Are you joking? You're going to say, with a straight face, that instances of misogyny should be ignored because our community is predominately male? Ed[talk] [majestic titan] 23:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Giano was outside the pale here, but a lot of what led up to this has also been. If there's anything more to be done, let's let arbcom sort that out. Please let this whole sorry affair just end. Jonathunder (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi all. To answer some of the points above: Yes, the sexist comments bothered me. Yes, I tweeted about it. I'm fed up with my gender being made one of the main points of attack when someone decides to criticize me, and even more fed up with how any man who becomes involved with an on-wiki dispute I'm having is immediately presumed to be either romantically involved with me or "white-knighting" (even here). Am I surprised that this is an issue on Wikipedia? Not at all. I'm used to tech communities being unwelcoming to women. But am I okay with it? Certainly not. I would not have created this AN/I post myself, as I don't think trying to start this discussion as some sort of branch off of the recent ArbCom case/bickering with Giano is wise, but at some point I think it's an issue that should be discussed. GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- If you don't want this particular incident to be discussed any further, I am willing to let it drop. Northern Antarctica (talk) 23:57, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Indeed, best to drop it I think. It's a topic worth discussing elsewhere, although some factions would suppress that happening in some places. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:00, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
User:In Ratio Veritas
I noticed In Ratio Veritas (talk · contribs) when he/she added a whole series of edits[164] at List of Italians that seemed to stray into WP:PEACOCK (which I notified[165] the user about). I then noticed further edits by the user that made marginal (and beyond marginal) claims that Napoleon was Italian[166], that Vincenzo Tiberio discovered "the power of antibiotics"[167], and that Italians invented the Magnetic Compass, Concrete, the Assembly Line, Crystal glass, the Dome, Fabric, Insurance, Learned society, and the Submarine[168]. I attempted to point out the need to reflect list articles, reliable sources, and a neutral point of view but attempts clean up just the Vincenzo Tiberio claim has been continually reverted by the user[169][170][171][172] and discussions with the user have gone down hill civility wise to the point of pointlessness[173]. The user keeps reverting[174][175] and labeling my edits "vandalism"[176].Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:51, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Some quick thoughts, after perusing some of these diffs and reading talk pages, looking at the history of List of Italians...
- In Ratio Veritas is at least communicative, which is a good sign. Most often, I find people who are particularly tendentious with a "cause" (especially one that might be nationalist like this one) don't want to discuss their edits, and only want to make accusations and edit war. This editor is not, which is good.
- Many of the editor's comments are inappropriate, and step over the line of WP:NPA, such as calling you "authoritarian" and labeling your edits as "vandalism".
- I strongly advise you to no longer revert at List of Italians; while I realize that discussing matters with this editor is frustrating, you've been engaged in a days-long edit war, including multiple back-and-forth reverts in the same day (not approaching or violating WP:3RR but still edit-warring). Reaching out for help here is a better solution than continuing to revert, please don't revert any further though.
- I hope that In Ratio Veritas participates in this discussion here. They were notified of this discussion properly. -- Atama頭 21:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- One other note, if I have time, I'll try to speak with In Ratio Veritas personally, with some advice and suggestions, but I'm also trying to thin out the SPI backlog a bit so I don't know how soon I can get to that. -- Atama頭 00:04, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for the consideration and the comments. Other intervention is appreciated. I was not sure if I was dealing with English as a second language (a slight miss-understanding of English), or a newcomer (although the editorial/syntax competence of the editor's first edits seems to show familiarity with Wikipedia). I noticed a while back before this current editor started editing that the article was filled up with very similar edits from another "possibly Italian nationality" tendentious editor (who seems to have multiple accounts). Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 18:34, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- One other note, if I have time, I'll try to speak with In Ratio Veritas personally, with some advice and suggestions, but I'm also trying to thin out the SPI backlog a bit so I don't know how soon I can get to that. -- Atama頭 00:04, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
User Excirial threatened to block me
Sometimes it's a threat; sometimes it's a warning; sometimes it's a promise. It usually depends on the actions of the person getting notified ES&L 20:02, 28 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello,
I am requesting that users Excirial and TJRC be blocked from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Business_Process_Modeling_Notation_tools#General The user left this message after he was referred by user TJRC.
Information icon Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia, as you did to Comparison of Business Process Modeling Notation tools. While objective prose about beliefs, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not intended to be a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. TJRC (talk) 20:19, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add soapboxing, promotional or advertising material to Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 20:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Stop icon This is your last warning. The next time you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 20:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
They both have repeated removed the following text from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Business_Process_Modeling_Notation_tools#General: Primarily a BPMN2.0 modeling tool with support for Value Chains, EPC and other notations. Complete revision control. Process simulation & side-by-side model comparison. Custom modeling guidelines. Attribute layers representation. Automatic creation of process documentation (.pdf or MS Word). Embed process models in other HTML5 applications, google docs, and wikis. API for integration with other IT systems. LDAP/AD, support for Sharepoint, and Process Portal for collaboration. QuickModel, collaboration, publication, analysis, reference models, integration with process automation platforms (e.g. execution engines Activiti, jBPM, and SAP).
Nowhere in this text are there advertorial claims as they have implied, and I feel bullied by the two users. If an administrator were to review the entire page, one would see that there are similar "feature" descriptions which neither Excirial nor TJRC target. I agree with them in removing the logo which I placed on the page as it expanded the table, but in no way do I differ from any of the other editors in presenting neutral information for the page. In no way have they proved their claims of conflict of interest and soapboxing. The final revision I posted to the section does indeed follow the Wikipedia guidelines, and does not violate any rules associated with the content on the page.
Please review my request and respond appropriately. This is greatly appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marketeer415 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Feature lists and text written in the second person (e.g. "Embed process models in other HTML5 applications") are not really encyclopedic. Thus they are not unreasonably described as "promotional". Please do continue removing obviously promotional text from that or any other article. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've given Marketeer415 a 3RR warning, since they're now at four reverts, and would note that anyone calling themselves "Marketeer" may expect scrutiny and even criticism when they're adding apparently promotional prose. @Marketeer415, Please discuss your edits on the talkpage, and bear in mind that Wikipedia has a low tolerance for even a hint of marketing or promotional prose. Acroterion (talk) 21:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Following my edit-warring warning, they reverted again. Now blocked for edit-warring. Acroterion (talk) 22:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
This one should be quick and easy
OH, WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE... | |
...when first we try to intercede. Anyway, however we got there, Shellwood got a timeout; re-report if further issues occur after the block. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:54, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I was amused when Shellwood accused me of campaigning against a random princess, less amused when he or she started edit-warring and making petty remarks about me, and not at all amused when he or she referred to my argument as "this losers personal opinions". Normally I would not report such things, but the user shows no intention to drop the edit-warring and/or believes he or she is free to break basic rules of civility and cooperation. Surtsicna (talk) 22:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
And now he or she saw it fit to vandalize my userpage. Surtsicna (talk) 23:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
... And to remove this thread twice from the noticeboard. Well, at least he or she is making it easier for all of us. Surtsicna (talk) 23:15, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- What has happened to you Surtsicna. You see conspiracies and enemies everywhere. Your edit summaries are not much better to be honest.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Fairly easy, yeah, but then you were edit-warring a bit, too, as is usual in these kinds of cases (and whatever they are, I really don't think they're much of a "vandal", though the blanking of your user page isn't cool). Seeing as how this dispute kinda came out of nowhere, I'm more willing to chalk this up for both of you getting a bit hot under the collar (them moreso than you, of course, but still). I'll write 'em a stern notice to stop, I'll let this serve as your less-stern notice to also stop, and leave you two to hash it out on the talk page, hopefully. Further misbehavior from them (particularly in the realm outside the article) will result in a block, but other than that, go, and edit-war no more. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 23:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- *eyeroll* And as usual, things happen while I'm typing. I'll overlook the latest blanking, since it came before my more "official" warning, but Shellwood, if you're reading this, you're treading on very thin ice. Cut it the eff out. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 23:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, rats. I saw this earlier, watchlisted Surtsicna's user page to see if it happened again, and blocked Shellwood when it did. i didn't see your comments here until too late. My thoughts are that someone doesn't really need it explained to them that blanking a user page with that edit summary is not OK. Stil, @Writ Keeper and WK:, I'll unblock if you want, or you can if you want. It's too easy to step on someone's toes here. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Nah, it's fine. Leave things be; it was an inherently blockable action, complicated only by the fact that I was typing my warning and had submitted it unawares. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 23:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Well, rats. I saw this earlier, watchlisted Surtsicna's user page to see if it happened again, and blocked Shellwood when it did. i didn't see your comments here until too late. My thoughts are that someone doesn't really need it explained to them that blanking a user page with that edit summary is not OK. Stil, @Writ Keeper and WK:, I'll unblock if you want, or you can if you want. It's too easy to step on someone's toes here. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:42, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- *eyeroll* And as usual, things happen while I'm typing. I'll overlook the latest blanking, since it came before my more "official" warning, but Shellwood, if you're reading this, you're treading on very thin ice. Cut it the eff out. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 23:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
BurlesqueCoversGalére
BurlesqueCoversGalére (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User adding unsourced or improperly sourced information to biographical articles such as Mike Scott (동음이의). Also in breach of WP:3RR 81.86.72.57 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 13:10, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Those additions look pretty sourcy to me (see what I did there?), and there's no 3RR breach. The user is trying to discuss this with you on your talkpage; maybe you might like to have a conversation with them before bringing this to ANI? Yunshui 雲水 15:39, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Vandal Spam Account
RESOLVED | |
Seems like this is sorted out--S Philbrick(Talk) 22:34, 28 February 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:2601:D:6700:25D:8426:ACCE:405B:6A9E looks like nothing but trouble. The name alone implies its a computer generated string and not a legitimate user attempting to join the community. Three edits so far, at best sandbox tests and at worst warming up for vandalism. I would recommend deleting the account if possible. -OberRanks (talk) 15:21, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is just an IPv6 address.--Cube lurker (talk) 15:29, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- (ec)User:OberRanks. We do not delete accounts, even when problematic. As noted, this is an IP address. They aren't starting out well, but looks to me like they are just testing to see if it is true that anyone can edit. Consider giving them a welcoming template.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- IPv6 address schemes use a hexadecimal series of digits (0-F) in groups separated by colons, in the same way that IPv4 addresses use decimal number groupings (octets) separated by periods. This is quite clearly an anonymous editor. Please note that it's common for editors to experiment (especially new and/or anonymous editors), and we even have templates that reference experimentation for such edits without going so far as to call someone a "vandal". Please take care not to scare away new or potential editors in your efforts to protect the project, that can be just as disruptive and potentially more threatening to the project than vandalism itself. -- Atama頭 16:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- It's undoubtedly an IP editor. Mousing over the link with popups says that it's an IP user. K6ka (talkcontribs) 17:10, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- IPv6 address schemes use a hexadecimal series of digits (0-F) in groups separated by colons, in the same way that IPv4 addresses use decimal number groupings (octets) separated by periods. This is quite clearly an anonymous editor. Please note that it's common for editors to experiment (especially new and/or anonymous editors), and we even have templates that reference experimentation for such edits without going so far as to call someone a "vandal". Please take care not to scare away new or potential editors in your efforts to protect the project, that can be just as disruptive and potentially more threatening to the project than vandalism itself. -- Atama頭 16:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- A "computer generated string", you say? It is actually a IPv6 address. Anyway, you can't delete the account as it is IP address (and you can't delete named accounts either, and IP users usually are a part of the community). The only valid point here is their "vandalism". That said, looks like a test edit (where the user should be directed to WP:SAND because they've only ever made 3 edits) and not genuine vandalism (which should go to WP:AIV). Epicgenius (talk) 17:34, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- ...and I've given the a Welcome template. I hope User:OberRanks will drop by their talkpage to apologize for their "random-generated...not wanting to join community]] statement that was anythign but WP:AGF. IPv6 has been around for a couple of years now ... with announcements on the project to advise people to "be aware" of the new IP format ES&L 17:47, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Meatpuppetry threats
Editing is not a right, it's a privilege, and that privilege has been revoked indef. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Trueblood786 (talk · contribs)
I am not sure how to deal with this but Trueblood is making threats of meatpuppetry (1, 2) even after I told him to read WP:MEAT. -- SMS Talk 21:29, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not happy about his edit at the article talk page saying " BTW most Sudhans are white blue eyed blonds, while most hindoos are black." You were supposed to notify him by the way, but I have. Dougweller (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Or the comment at Talk:Sudhan " the only puppets here are you two hindoos". Dougweller (talk) 21:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I think you may be confusing partly Trueblood with Trueblood786? The link at the top of the thread goes to the wrong page. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 22:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks, Jonathan. I've fixed the link at the top. (I don't think there's been any confusion in the comments here, as "Trueblood" without the 786 hasn't edited since 2008.) Bishonentalk 22:15, 28 February 2014 (UTC).
- Thanks Jonathan and Bishonen. I am sorry for that confusion. -- SMS Talk 22:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks all; I have deleted the errorneous ANI notification at Trueblood's talk page. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 22:25, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks, Jonathan. I've fixed the link at the top. (I don't think there's been any confusion in the comments here, as "Trueblood" without the 786 hasn't edited since 2008.) Bishonentalk 22:15, 28 February 2014 (UTC).
That is a fact the two hindoos destroyed this page. There is nothing wrong with people who are part this tribe to actually look at this page to see what these two have done. That is called freedom of speach, what right do you guys think you have to destroy this page, even with proper references. There will be a lot of editors and there were a lot of editors for this page, when these two started to threaten people most backed down. I wont back down to some guys who have no clue about sudhans and have made this page into a Indian Page, while in fact Azad Kashmir and Sudhans are not part of India. There are separate and identified as such by the United Nations. So if someone else wants to look at their edits they think it is a threat, i dont think so
Trueblood (talk) 22:03, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Trueblood, does that statement mean you're still intending to "ask the Sudhan education conference to look into this site and have their 4000 members start editing, and review why you two have done to the Sudhan Tribe"? In the name of freedom of speech? Bishonen talk 22:22, 28 February 2014 (UTC).
Anyone has a write to look at this article, if the Sudhans look at it and see what these two have done, clearly, if one does not even have any idea what Sudhans are, they should not be editing. This guy said in his post that Sudhan Education confernce is some self thing, well it is a NGO fully recognized by the Government has 4000 members, the tribe has 500,000 members, clearly the opinion of two indians who have never met a sudhan should not count as much
Trueblood (talk) 22:29, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- And we possibly have one meatpuppet already Ibby110 (talk·contribs). -- SMSTalk 22:35, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'd also point out here that the racial undertones involved in this discussion is a breach of civility protocols in my mind. Jeremy112233 (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, indeed they are. Trueblood, everybody has a right to read, but nobody has a right to recruit people who agree with you for the purpose of coming to Wikipedia and supporting your side of a debate. Please read the sockpuppetry policy. The specific rule is at WP:MEAT. Bishonen talk 22:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC).
- I'd also point out here that the racial undertones involved in this discussion is a breach of civility protocols in my mind. Jeremy112233 (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
So anyone who disagrees with Indians is a puppet. Good luck
Trueblood (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
so according to you no one except you have the right to edit. These two recruited each other, and destryoed this article, now there will be thousands of editors who also have independent opinions. So this guys thinks this new editor is a puppet, well he is an editor. Just like the rest of you. Free flow of information is what wikepedia is all about, this is not the soviet union, but I guess you guys think it is Trueblood (talk) 22:47, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Blocked. Not much use dancing around this any longer. Blocked for meatpuppetry threats, actual meatpuppetry (if your last post is to be believed), personal attacks ("You two hindoos recruited each other and destroyed this article" (repeated again right here), "This guy just believes he owns this site" and not being here to help create an encyclopedia. Bishonen talk 22:53, 28 February 2014 (UTC).
- Echoing John's sentiments, and also noting that I've never heard anyone use the term "Hindoo" before, probably as it is both archaic and vulgar . Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:06, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
How is this a threat? Don't Sudhans have the right to edit their own articles in reference to them selves. Are you going to ban everyone that is trying to make agruments based on real references? 198.151.130.34 (talk) 23:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC) 198.151.130.34 (talk) 23:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Unless an editor has a topic ban preventing them from editing on a certain subject, any contributor can edit any article of Wikipedia. But just because you make an edit doesn't mean that it will go unchallenged. The content of Wikipedia evolves and is constantly changing.
- I don't think you can speak of "rights" as Wikimedia Foundation is a nonprofit organization, not some national government ensuring civil rights. Everyone who edits WP has to adhere to WP guidelines and policies or that right can be taken away. Liz Read! Talk! 23:50, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
User:Hot Stop
User deleted comments in opposition to a motion without comment [177] and then refused to justify his actions when challenged, additionally insulting another editor (me) in the edit summary.[178] 91.125.163.45 (talk) 03:22, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- You don't seem to have notified @User:Hot Stop of this thread, so I pinged them. Beyond that, I'd say your complaint is valid, and the user in question has a history: see here. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 03:39, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- All I'm going to say here is that I undid his comment (which was no less snarky than anything I wrote) because the entire idea of the "ready" tag is to get an admin to review the nomination. The OP is hardly an admin and was highly involved in the discussion and shouldn't have been making that decision. Hot Stop 03:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- I'd say that "poor baby" in the edit summary of the diff on your talk page was pushing the limits. I think you might have done better to respond to that with the explanation you just gave. So I think that while 91.125.163.45 is understandably upset with you, no actual violation occurred here. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 04:09, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. Hot Stop 04:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- I'd say that "poor baby" in the edit summary of the diff on your talk page was pushing the limits. I think you might have done better to respond to that with the explanation you just gave. So I think that while 91.125.163.45 is understandably upset with you, no actual violation occurred here. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 04:09, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
strange userpage / provocator agent?
THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY MANY THINGS WHICH WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND, AND MAY NEVER BE ABLE TO | |
Well, per the bigwigs, not sure there's anything more to be done here. Post-mortems of this case will necessarily be missing key pieces of information, and in the meantime, I don't think we need to let this thread stay visible and open, yeah? I think we just have to take their word for it here, and if not, well, AUSC is thataways.Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 00:40, 1 March 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

At AIV, where I had posted this first, I was instructed to take it to ANI.
When I checked a somewhat out-of-scope-looking image over at Commons, I was taken to the userpage of Soixante Nerf (talk · contribs), which appeared immediately rather fishy to me. As I am not well-versed with :en's terms, please take a close look at the userpage of this self-proclaimed 16-year-old, who has mostly edited his/her userpage. Something seems to be very wrong there. Some of his/her edit-summaries and the links in the last line of the userpage make it rather unlikely that this is a 16-year-old. Eventually this might be a Agent provocateur, who wants to put Wikipedia in a bad light. --Túrelio (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I see no problem with this userpage, or any edits this user has made. Please assume good faith and be welcoming to new editors. I would in fact delete/remove this report. It is inappropriate. Capitalismojo (talk) 16:32, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Look very carefully at the links at the very bottom of the user page (and links elsewhere). The user page should be deleted and account blocked immediately. It could be an attack page on a minor, we can't take any chances.--I am One of Many (talk) 16:45, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the issue here. They've done a lot of work on their userpage, yeah. They have some interesting choices in articles to edit, yeah. Their external links in some places just come back here to Wikipedia, yeah. Their grammar, wording, and even some edit-summaries certainly fit the intellectual and age description. They're not a minor. The external links go to a subdomain of a website (lisaem) that happens to meet what the person claims to be their name. What's the problem? ES&L 17:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Whether it matters or not, their self-proclaimed birth date does make them a minor in most places, at least in Florida where the Foundation is legally based. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 17:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with I am One of Many. Túrelio was quite correct to bring this here per Wikipedia:Protecting children's privacy. We have here someone (Redacted). In many US states and in US Federal law, 16 is below the age of consent. Voceditenore (talk) 17:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have suppressed her page as it contained way too much personal detail for a minor. —DoRD (talk) 17:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you. It also had a photograph. If the girl in the image was someone else, that was potentially very serious. If it was an adult posing as a 16 year old, ditto. Voceditenore (talk) 17:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I have suppressed her page as it contained way too much personal detail for a minor. —DoRD (talk) 17:29, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- Four possibilities here, from (IMHO) most to least likely: (1). Journalist or blogger posing as underage "jailbait" so as to shame Wikipedia. Reddit got a lot of well-deserved bad publicity not too long ago for having a "jailbait" forum, could be an attempt to make Wikipedia look similarly bad. (2). Law enforcement trying to catch pedos by posing as "jailbait" user and seeing who sends them messages or otherwise interacts with or defends them. (3). Someone creating fake accounts to bully some kid. Mean, but hey, it happens. (4). Some kid trying to shock their parents by being "jailbait" online. Basically the novel Dinky Hocker Shoots Smack for the web 2.0 era. Regardless of which possibility it is, no good can come to Wikipedia by having a "jailbait" user page. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- All are possible and a misuse of a user account. I'm especially concerned about some version of (3). I am One of Many (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- A side note, "soixante nerf" seems like a slight modification of the French phrase "soixante neuf" which is slang for a sexual position. This seems consistent with much of the editor's interests (see their contribution history), but provocative usernames are often associated with disruptive intentions. -- Atama頭 19:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- All are possible and a misuse of a user account. I'm especially concerned about some version of (3). I am One of Many (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Is there a reason why this editor was not notified of this discussion? Is there a reason why this user page was already deleted before hearing from the editor? It seemed like there was discussion going on and the editor spent a lot of time creating her user page. Liz Read! Talk! 21:37, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- The reason why the page was deleted is outlined at WP:KID, already linked to above in this discussion. As to your other question, I don't think there is a good reason except that it was forgotten (not a good excuse, I know). I'll rectify that now. -- Atama頭 21:53, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- For more background as to why user pages like this are often deleted, read the arbitration discussion here. -- Atama頭 21:55, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Note: I saw User:Soixante nerf early on, after seeing her edit the Erotic sexual denial article, and I discussed her user page, including the fact that her username seems to mean soixante neuf, and the existence of all the links (links that are not directly Wikipedia links...but double as Wikipedia links), with a few Wikipedia editors via email; we were all concerned, some of us more concerned than others. One of the editors I discussed the matter with brought up WP:CHILDPROTECT, but wondered if she is too old for that policy to apply to her; I assured the editor that the policy applies to late teenagers who are underage as well. But since User:Soixante nerf says she is a late teenager, though still under age with regard to most countries, I decided to let the matter play out itself, especially given the editor's feelings toward Wikipedia. I may have acted wrongly in that regard, and it seems from above that others would agree that I did. As for the editors I was in discussion with about this matter, it was me who contacted all three and I did not reveal their identities to each other (in fact, only one of them was aware that I was in discussion with another Wikipedia editor about this matter), just like I will not reveal their identities here in this discussion. If they want to comment here, they will. Flyer22 (talk) 22:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Four possibilities here, from (IMHO) most to least likely:
Journalist or blogger posing as underage "jailbait" so as to shame Wikipedia.
Do you really think that is the most likely explanation? That's terrible!
Someone creating fake accounts to bully some kid. Mean, but hey, it happens
That is also a terrible thing to think. But if it really happens, I guess that is even more terrible.
Some kid trying to shock their parents by being "jailbait" online.
My parents do not know I registered an account with Wikipedia and I am sure they do not care. I am also sure that if they saw my account name, they would think it as funny as everyone else does.
Law enforcement trying to catch pedos by posing as "jailbait" user and seeing who sends them messages or otherwise interacts with
I am not going to respond to old weirdos who come on to me online, here or anywhere else. There are plenty of young wierdos in my dorm.
Again,
Four possibilities here, from (IMHO) most to least likely
Note that in your exhaustive list of possibilities, you omitted the one that should have been listed first: that I am just a smart 16 year-old.
But you didn't even consider that as a possibility. You said you will only consider descriptions of me that are evil. It's a trap. It's a pedophile.
Does anyone else see anything wrong with this? Might it perhaps be unfair when deciding whether I will be allowed to edit Wikipedia? Is rejecting the obvious explanation right at the start really the best way to decide what to believe—ever?
or defends [her].
That is a very worrisome statement to me. If I am in a contentious situation as an editor, everyone involved has now been warned not to support my position because if they do, an admin at this notice board will assume they are a criminal. I very seriously object to that statement. It isolates me from legitimate article-related communication.
It also had a photograph. If the girl in the image was someone else, that was potentially very serious. If it was an adult posing as a 16 year old, ditto.
Gee, thanks a lot. The photo was of me.
"soixante nerf" seems like a slight modification of the French phrase "soixante neuf"
It is. So what? I think it is funny, my roommate thinks it's funny, and my friends here think it is funny. If some of you people are really this screwed up, then just let me pick a different name.
WP:CHILDPROTECT, but wondered if she is too old for that policy to apply to her;
I am not a Beiber-obsessed little girl wandering around backstage flirting with roadies at a concert. I am a college student in a dorm. Guys live in both rooms next to mine. I have all the freedom and responsibility of every other student here. I know this will shock and horrify you, but I even have sex, too. (I apologize for using such filthy language.)
And to show the level of depravity to which those godless Liberals have sunk our once-great country, my parents know about it and they think its fine. They have even had my GF over for dinner! But, then, you can't expect better from a couple of progressive, atheist, socialist PhDs.
I used the term "jailbait" because I think the phrase is hilarious, and I put it in my "a.k.a." list because it really is my nickname here. Also on that list was "speedy," which I was called one time because of my use of a larger-than-usually-prescribed amount of (legitimately prescribed) Ritalin.
I'll let you figure out why I'm called "spanky."
Sadly, I can only play with freshmen because sophomores know they could be pulled out of school and thrown in prison for 30 years if they do the very same thing a few freshmen have already done with impunity, and the very same thing they can do themselves in a few months on my birthday. In fact, I have considered throwing a particularly exciting birthday party with only 19 year-olds invited.
But the Juniors had better keep at least 10 feet away from me at all times and never be alone with me, or they're in a HEAP o' trouble!
Perhaps you see why I said, "I should write a book about the experience of being jailbait." I was referring to the grossly illogical consequences of these "protect the innocent girl's virtue" laws, the strangest of which happened when my GF turned 19. For a long time (by my standards), she was legally allowed to do stuff with everyone's blessing. These days, we could even have gotten married! Then literally the next day, she was a felon in danger of being imprisoned for decades and branded a monster if she did the very same things to me that she did legally just a few hours earlier. The kicker is, in just a few months, the exact same stuff will suddenly become perfectly legal again.
The unjust nature of this strange and shameful paradox was briefly taken notice of in several campus forums. But to me, it was my proud "15 minutes of fame," and the basis for (jokingly) calling myself a "dorm celebrity" on my user page. I found it so cool because I was not one of the popular girls in high school. It was also the genesis of my nickname, "jailbait," which I really love, is used by my friends more than "Lisa", and is now my favorite internet handle.
Your concern is appreciated, but unnecessary and, I think, unwarranted. I try not to take offense, and I remind myself that that you don't know me, and that you are just being safe instead of sorry, and as with powerful drugs, some people do need to be protected from their naive stupidity.
I discussed her user page, and her username with a few others.
You had email conversations about me with several people and even blanked my user page, yet it never occurred to you to advise me, tell me, or most of all, ask me anything. Nor did anyone see fit to let me know about this long discussion, in which I am the one being discussed. Instead, my user page was blanked without me being told first or being allowed to bring it into compliance with whatever rules apply.
the links in the last line of the userpage
Download and look at those links. You will see that they are simple redirects. I added them because most of them are, to the non screwed-up, ironic and humorous. Like having "Liberal" point to the article for "Communist." I used redirects to prevent readers from seeing the punch line in the link name.
But nobody ever asked me why. Instead, my links are used by admins here as evidence of my being evil.
Some of his/her edit-summaries make it unlikely that this is a 16-year-old.
I speak proper English, am intelligent, literate, well-informed in many areas, and I am 16. Since that is next-to impossible in the United States, you conclude that I am a much older person—probably a man—pretending to be me. Worse, I now have to defend myself about it.
This is a trigger issue with me, because in grade school I was accused of plagiarism, and the reason given (in front of the class) was that I had obviously copied my book report verbatim from the book jacket. I was so disheartened and despondent about this being my reward for excellent work that I never even showed him the book jacket. I just passively said nothing and didn't defended myself.
Well, I'm defending myself now.
This kind of moral panic craziness tar pit is exactly why I edited anonymously for so many years. And if things I've seen at WP in the past are any indication, it looks like pretty soon I will be correcting grammar anonymously here again. You already deleted my user page. The next step will be to ignore everything I just said, come to some kind of wrong, bizarre decision, and delete *me* as well.
I suppose I should have known better than to establish an account. There are screwed-up weirdos here alright, but they are not pedos.
Please reinstate my user page and advise me of what you don't like about it, so I can change it to one that you do like.
Please. ☺
I see no problem with this userpage, or any edits this user has made. Please assume good faith and be welcoming to new editors. I would in fact delete/remove this report. It is inappropriate. Capitalismojo (talk)
I'm not seeing the issue here. They've done a lot of work on their userpage, yeah. They have some interesting choices in articles to edit, yeah. Their external links in some places just come back here to Wikipedia, yeah. The external links go to a subdomain of a website (lisaem) that happens to meet what the person claims to be their name. What's the problem? ES&L 17:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, capitalismo and ESL. It is relieving to know that there are as many as two people here with common sense.
Lisa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soixante Nerf (talk • contribs) 00:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Soixante Nerf, you were already pinged when Túrelio made their original post. How did you not know that this was going on? (Unless, of course, you're a troll, which, judging by your editing style, is easy to assume...) Epicgenius (talk) 01:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Last night, I began a rather long defense of a very popular webcomic that was deleted for not being notable, even though it has fan pages and is sold as a book on Amazon. I went to sleep because I have an early class tuesday and thursday. I got back to it today around 6pm, after classes and then the dining hall. The page still open on my screen had no notifications on it. I deleted most of what I wrote last night as unnecessary distraction from my main point, then posted it, as you can see on my contributions list. As soon as a new page loaded, I saw the "messages" flag, came here, and hit the ceiling.
- Thank you for asking me, BTW, instead of making the ugliest possible misinterpretation that you could.
- How did you not know that this was going on unless you're a troll?
- The question makes no sense. A troll would drop everything and come here immediately, to wallow in the attention. Why is my not doing that evidence of trolling?
- I'm starting to understand how women felt when they were tried for being "witches." The jury had concluded guilt before even hearing the defendant (as starblind said he did, above), and the entire meaning of "evidence" was turned on its head.
- a troll, which, judging by your editing style, is easy to assume
- What is it about my editing style that makes you believe I'm a troll? All my edits are punctuation and grammar.
- Forget what I said about you not making the worst possible interpretation you can. I figured that when I had a named account, that I would soon be banned by an admin for not agreeing with an article's owner in a content dispute. But I now consider it inevitable that I will be banned in less than a day for replying to the issues in this pointless noticeboard "incident.
- Why not just let me recreate a politically-correct user page and continue fixing punctuation errors? I never started a fight here; I just made a funny user page that was deleted by people with nothing better to do.
- One more thing occurs to me. I'm not sure how to phrase it, and it will be interesting to see how the crazy people here twist it into evidence of trolling or media conspiracy. But my guess is that my ex- user page is probably just what one would expect from a 16 year-old who's free of her parents for the first time and finds herself in a dorm of guys (and girls) more than willing to help her explore this new, exciting thing called sexuality.
- To anyone who's both intelligent and not crazy, that would be almost certainly true, a no-brainer. It would also clearly be a more likely explanation of my humorous user page than "it's the undercover cops", "it's a disrupting troll," or "it's an old pedophile."
- I don't like this conversation. In fact I hate it, and I've asked several times to please stop it. I just want to fix minor errors in Wikipedia, and if you end this circus, that's what I'll do.
- To sane people, my return to low-key editing would be proof that—what do you know—she didn't come here to fight; she came here to fix grammar mistakes. But I don't think that the kind of people who've accused me of crazy stuff will do that. They don't seem to be the kind of people who would ever say "wow, I suspected that Lisa came here to trick us for Fox News, but I realize that I was wrong."
- I observe that some people who hang around this noticeboard are eager to believe that conspiracies by the media, pedophilia, and clever traps to trick them are literally the only explanations for a smart girl with a dry sense of humor editing Wikipedia. I think that probably, once that kind of person gets started blaming and judging and accusing, that they are emotionally incapable of any ending other than "Beat her up! Ban her! No 16 year-old could be that literate; she's an agent provocateur, satanic and evil pedophile come to trick and discredit us!"
- There is no way to defend yourself against that using logic and reason because this is the only time they ever get to bully and hurt other people—which is how the lesser-intelligent adapt to being bullied and hurt.
- Since they appear to be a vast majority here, I think it's a foregone conclusion that they will use my very words right now to whoop themselves up, ban me within 24 hours, then go find someone else to hurt. In fact, the only reason I don't just cancel my account in protest is that those same people would somehow manage to interpret it as confirming their manifestly unwarranted, ridiculous theories.
- It's too bad, too, because all I really want to do is fix grammar errors. Soixante Nerf 03:19, 28 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soixante Nerf (talk • contribs)
- "I know this will shock and horrify you, but I actually have sex, too."
- Soixante Nerf, LOL, you're barking up the wrong tree with that one. As one of the editors around here well educated on sexual topics, I'm not sure that there is any sexual topic that would shock me. Certainly, there are ones that horrify me, but a 16-year-old having sex is not it. And for those stating "pedo" ("pedos"), that's not an accurate definition of pedophilia when it comes to adult sexual attraction to 16-year-olds. Not to mention that 16-year-olds can be pedophiles as well. But oh well. Like the Pedophilia article notes, people do misuse the term.
- "You had email conversations about me with several people and even blanked my user page, yet it never occurred to you to advise me, tell me, or most of all, ask me anything. Nor did anyone see fit to let me know about this long discussion, in which I am the one being discussed. Instead, my user page was blanked without me being told first or being allowed to bring it into compliance with whatever rules apply."
- Yep, I had email discussions with a few (not several) people about you, and I even mentioned to one Wikipedia editor that you remind me a little of myself when I was your age. But I didn't blank your user page; the person who did that identified himself above. And, no, I wouldn't contact you to tell you that I had email discussions about you. Not unless it was something you needed to be informed of. Like I stated, I decided to let things play out. If there was truly something wrong with your user page, others would tackle that; I wanted no part in tackling it. I queried others about you because I know how this site works and I knew that there was a chance that others might approach you about the things that you are now facing here in this WP:ANI discussion, and so I wanted opinions on the matter. Many Wikipedia editors here converse via email about Wikipedia and other Wikipedia editors, with it never occurring to them that they should let the people they were discussing know of that discussion, especially if most or all aspects of that discussion are better left off Wikipedia and/or away from the people the discussion concerns.
- Flyer, I read your user page and some of your stuff, and it made me extremely happy! You are so obviously me in the future who came back in a time machine to write those things, that I am absolutely overjoyed to know time-travel is possible. Soixante Nerf 05:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soixante Nerf (talk • contribs)
- The deletion of your user page was simply a good-faith effort to protect a young person. Wikipedia is anonymous unless one chooses to disclose who they are. Your edits are not all grammatical in nature. Some of your edits are corrections to mathematical equations, correct rephrasing of physical forces and processes, and the appropriate addition a highly technical scientific reference to an article. We do assume good faith when it is reasonable, but in this case, it did not appear reasonable regarding your user page. I am One of Many (talk) 07:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Flyer, I read your user page and some of your stuff, and it made me extremely happy! You are so obviously me in the future who came back in a time machine to write those things, that I am absolutely overjoyed to know time-travel is possible. Soixante Nerf 05:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soixante Nerf (talk • contribs)
- That was not what I said, at all. congratulations for taking my words and skewing their meaning completely. I was just saying that, as Flyer22 stated above, the Echo notifications systems notify you of this post immediately, when your name is linked inside a post. that said, I was saying that some might think you are a troll (I don't) but based on your main topic of editing in some reproduction-related articles, it is likely that at least one editor may think that. Epicgenius (talk) 15:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Epicgenius, I resisted stating the following, but I've finally given into temptation: I wouldn't call those articles "reproduction-related articles," LOL, but I know what you mean. Flyer22 (talk) 00:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- SN, as one of the editors who engaged in off-wiki discussion about you, I want to say here that such discussions are perfectly legitimate. They can help to head off trouble at the pass before it blows up into a big ugly mess that disrupts the project, and they also serve to minimize the Streisand effect wherein sensitive information gets seen by a lot more people than would otherwise see it. Besides, Wikipedians are people—no, really!—and people like to gossip. I'd guess that such discussions happen every day, although I couldn't be sure.
I'm the editor who wondered "aloud" about WP:CHILDPROTECT. I initially concluded that yours was a borderline case that merited further watching but not necessarily immediate action. I thought—and still think—that putting those links at the end of your user page was unwise. I'm the last person who's going to judge you, but I think there's a time and a place. Putting certain things on the same page where you identify yourself as a minor is a potential problem for three reasons: (1) it's liable to bring unwanted attention your way from people who may seek to exploit you or defame Wikipedia, (2) it's something you may well regret later, when you're older, no matter how appropriate you think it is right now, and (3) rightly or wrongly, it gets many of your fellow editors upset, thereby disrupting the project, and disrupting the project is never cool. Perhaps you didn't mean your page to be provocative—I'm certainly willing to assume good faith on that point—but some people took it that way, and that was disruptive, whatever the intent.
If you really are sixteen, then you must know perfectly well that you're precocious and realize the fact that sometimes you're going to make people suspicious just by being yourself. C'est la vie. I hope you won't judge us too harshly for wondering and worrying. For what it's worth, one of the reasons I hesitated to report you is that I'm pretty sure that if Wikipedia had been around when I was your age, I would have been involved with it—and probably pushing the boundaries. I'm sure we're all glad to know you're here to do good work. If you continue with that and try to keep your user page uncontroversial, you should be fine. And don't take this as official—I'm not an administrator—but I wouldn't worry about your username. (Just don't get any ideas about increasing it by one whole number en français, as someone of a thoroughly monolingual persuasion might misconstrue that.) Rivertorch (talk) 19:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I've blocked this account indefinitely, and it should not be unblocked without the consent of ArbCom. I don't think there's much reason to continue a conversation here, but I think removing the thread would backfire, so I'll just suggest it instead. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- I did a checkuser and reviewed the edits to the user page, and the other edits made by this user account. Based on this information, I agree that the account should be blocked and referred to ArbCom. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 19:39, 28 February 2014 (UTC) (Sydney Poore)
- As the oversighter / checkuser who raised the issue with the rest of Functionaries, I agree with Floquenbeam's actions and that the account should not be unblocked without consulting ArbCom. —DoRD (talk) 20:30, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- In my capacity as Checkuser here, I have to concur with the actions taken here - Alison ❤ 20:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Surely something should be said to the editors who apparently fell for this whole thing hook, line, and sinker. Particularly troubling is editors trying to ignore WP:CHILDPROTECT, which being a policy with distinct legal and public-relations consequences shouldn't be tossed aside on a whim. It isn't like letting a 3RR issue slide. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 22:12, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Probably. They should've been blocked as a trolling account regardless of any CHILDPROTECT things, and I've just gone ahead and mopped up everything they were involved in (almost all of it was ridiculous oversimplification of articles, pure trolling, or a combination of the two). And I have no intention of going anywhere near most of those articles any time soon... Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 23:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I can't see anything on this page that warrants even considering a block. I can't see what was on the user page because it has been suppressed, but judging from the descriptions above, nothing there would have warranted a block either. Obviously, checkusers have access to data that I do not, and that may well give v ery good reasons for blocking. I wish that checkusers felt more able to say in general terms some of the reasons for their cations, when doing so would not out soemoen or violate the privacy policy, but I am not in a position to judge if that could be done in any particular case. (for example "Evidence shows that User:X is a sockpuppet of a banned user") Perhaps I am naive, I found the voice of the self-described teen above plausible, although of course that is no proof of anything. If the above poster was in fact duping editors here with malign intent, a block may have been the best way. If the editor was accurately self-describing, then we have probably lost a potentially valuable contributor. DES (talk) 00:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Try reading some of their comments in this thread. They're trolling, pure and simple. Almost every single one of their edits was unconstructive, and I don't think you're familiar with WP:CHILDPROTECT at all, given that comment. We haven't lost a potentially valuable contributor at all. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:31, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
NAC: Subject of the thread was blocked with an ArbCom indef block, so there's absolutely nothing that can be accomplished with further discussion here. Questions about the interpretation of WP:CHILDPROTECT, or suggestions to change it aren't appropriate in this venue. BMK (talk) 08:32, 1 March 2014 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Andrew Lenahan (Starblind), I take WP:CHILDPROTECT seriously (as a lot of editors at this site know) and I'm certain that Rivertorch does as well. That policy, however, is significantly more so about pedophiles, other types of people who are interested in sexual activity with an underage (non-adult) person and those advocating such behavior, and any of those types trying to contact an underage person on Wikipedia, than it is about an underage person giving out too much personal information on Wikipedia....unless giving it out to such people. I've never seen it applied to a case such as Soixante Nerf's case; all of that is where my not applying it to this case comes from, though I was clear above that WP:CHILDPROTECT applies to late teenagers who are underage as much as it does to prepubescent children. And if one wants to state that WP:CHILDPROTECT should have been applied because Soixante Nerf might be a pedophile, we'd need proof or good suspicion of that. WP:CHILDPROTECT was not taken into consideration, as far as we know, when Soixante Nerf's user page was "deleted" and then when Soixante Nerf was blocked. And it was not mentioned in this thread until I brought it up. Wikipedia:Guidance for younger editors and Wikipedia:On privacy, confidentiality and discretion are the pages that were applied when the blanking of this user's user page took place. Above, someone else mentioned Wikipedia:Protecting children's privacy (WP:KID). And none of those are official guidelines or policies, but they work just as efficiently. Neither I nor Rivertorch "fell for this whole thing hook, line, and sinker," especially not Rivertorch, who even hinted at doubt when he stated above..."If you really are sixteen." Flyer22 (talk) 00:49, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Note: Because I was in the process of responding to Starblind, I did not know that Writ Keeper had already closed this thread. Flyer22 (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Lukeno94 I am perfectly well aware of WP:CHILDPROTECT and I just reviewed it in case I had forgotten something. I hadn't. I see no trolling above, merely an angry and sarcastic editor, or else someone doing a good job of posing as such. Frankly i find the former more likely, although impersonation does occur online quite often, and I know it. I reviewed a fair number of the editor's article space contributions, and most of them look either constructive or ill advised but honestly attempting to be helpful. I saw no vandalism or nonconstructive editing. There is a somewhat unusual mix of scientific topics with sexual ones, but both are in my view plausible interests for the editor as self-described. I see no evidence of any attempt to attract anyone, of any age, into a sexual or romantic relationship, unless merely editing sexual topics con be so construed. I will freely grant that if the editor was lying about her age, or gender, or both, that would be a large red flag. Checkusers may have relevant data on that, I don't see any behavioral clues to suggest such. I agree that it was unwise for the editor, if posting in good faith, to post personal information under the alleged circumstances, and that the suppression of the user page was in accord with policy and probably a good idea. But I frankly don't see what makes people so ready to assume bad faith here, any checkuser evidence aside. DES (talk) 01:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Note: Because I was in the process of responding to Starblind, I did not know that Writ Keeper had already closed this thread. Flyer22 (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)