위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive1001

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알림판 아카이브
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중재집행 (iii)
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기타 링크

WP:NOTHERE 편집자는 WP로 기사의 토크 페이지를 사용한다.포럼

안녕, 이 사용자Talk를 사용하고 있어:이란 아제르바이잔인들WP와 같다.포룸. 우선 나는 그에게 소식통으로 대답했지만 그는 요점을 파악하지 못하고 그의 유일한 POV로 계속해서 토크 페이지를 제공했다.그리고 나서 WP에 의한 논의를 삭제했다.포럼, WP:트롤WP:돈트피드(DONTFEED) 하지만 이제, 그는 자신의 관련 없는 편집들을 복원하기 위해 전쟁을 편집하고 있으며, 이것이 그의 "언론의 자유" 또는 WP:B라고 말한다.AT틀그라운드는 그의 토크 페이지 [1]에서 "당신은 나를 막을없었다"와 같은 논평들을 언급한다.IMO, 그것은 WP의 분명한 사례다.여기 말고 트롤.관리자의 주의가 필요하다.정말 고마워.---위카비아니 23:13, 2019년 1월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

명확한 WP:NOTHERE, WP:BATtleground 및 WP:SOAP 케이스.이들의 댓글을 보면 보도된 이용자가 WP를 포럼으로 생각하고 있으며, 그들의 민족주의적 환상을 바탕으로 기사를 다시 써야 한다고 생각하는 것을 알 수 있다. --Wario-Man (토크) 23:33, 2019년 1월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 '토크 페이지'에 몇 문장을 쓰고 그 기사에 대한 나의 우려를 공유했는데, 처음에는 위키비아니(토크 · 기여 · 삭제 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 차단 사용자 · 블록 로그)가 내 글을 삭제하고 트롤과 기분전환가(메인 페이지를 바꾸지 않은 동안)라고 불렀다.그리고 나서 나는 내 섹션을 취소하고 내 이성을 설명했는데, 그 후 다시 위키비아니(토크 · 기여 · 삭제 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 차단 사용자 · 차단 로그)가 내 글을 삭제하고, 나를 차단하도록 괴롭히고, (내가 단지 그의 우려에 반응하는 동안) 토크 페이지를 포럼으로 이용했다고 비난하였다. 그래서 이제 다른 사람, 와리오맨(토크 · 기여 ·)삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그) 나의 글을 삭제하고, 차단하도록 나를 대하고, 민족주의적 환상을 쓰고자 하는 민족주의자라고 부르는데, 와리오맨(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)이 과연 그런 사전 판단적 사고를 가진 관리자인가.어떻게 하면 몇 문장을 쓰고 나의 고민을 토크페이지에 공유할 수 있을까?패리보즈26 (대화) 01:42, 2019년 1월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 콘텐츠 분쟁?배경: 이란 아제르바이잔이란에 살고 있는 아제르바이잔인에 관한 것이다. 놀랄 것도 없이, 그들이 이란인인지 아닌지가 논의의 대상이다.2018년 8월 이전에 이 기사의 오리진 섹션은 이란(또는 이란보다 그루지야인)이 아닌 것으로 결론 내린 2013년 러시아 DNA 연구를 논의하는 것으로 시작되었다.지난 8월, 위키비아니이란어를 결론지은 두 개의 이란 연구에 내용을 추가했다.[2] [3] 1월 4일, 패리보즈26은 기사의 토크 페이지에 글을 올렸고, 오리진 섹션과 인용한 연구에 대한 토론이 이어졌다.[4] On 15 Jan, Wikaviani deleted the talk page discussion, [5] Fariborz26 undid [6] and added more comments, [7] [8] Wikaviani reverted [9] and posted a warning, [10] Fariborz26 undid, [11] Wario-Man reverted [12] and posted a final warning, [13] about the same time this ANI was posted.Fariborz26은 추가 기사 토크 페이지 댓글을 달았다. [14] 내가 보기에는 반대 의견이 WP를 중심으로 한 것 같다.NPOV, WP:DUE 그리고 전체 DNA/원산지 문제가 기사에 포함되어야 하는지 여부.나는 그것에 대해 의견을 표명하지 않지만 이것이 연구에 관한 내용상의 논쟁이라면 아마도 제3의 의견이나 분쟁 해결이 적절한 포럼일 것이다.또한 출처가 MIT 프레스 북일 때 "신뢰할 수 없는 출처를 제거했다"는 편집 요약으로 봇의 편집을 되돌리는 것도 궁금하다.[15] 레비비치? ! 05:46, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
아니, 이건 콘텐츠 논쟁도 아니고 네가 올린 글도 이번 ANI 사건과 무관해.사용자:위카비아니의 편집은 또 다른 이야기로, 만약 편집자가 자신이 틀렸다고 생각한다면 기사 토크 페이지에서 논의해야 한다.이 보고서는 토크 페이지에 보고된 사용자의 행동과 코멘트에 관한 것이다.당신은 이 주제에 대해 잘 모르는 것 같고 그것이 당신이 그의 논평이 (위카비안의 편집에 의해 야기된 것처럼) 내용 논쟁적인 것이라고 생각하는 이유인 것 같다.그의 마지막 발언조차 전혀 말이 되지 않는다.[16]; 예: "다른 민족들의 페이지에서 기원 부분을 찾을없었다."정말?!인종에 관한 거의 모든 기사에는 "원주민"이라는 섹션이 있고, 다른 많은 기사들도 "유전자"라는 섹션이 있다.이런 댓글을 토크 페이지에 올리는 것은 일종의 트롤링이나 부적절한 행동이라고 생각하지 않으세요?그는 단지 WP 때문에 기사에서 일부 내용을 삭제하기를 원한다.그냥 좋아하지 마그의 논평에 따르면, 그는 또한 그의 민족주의 성향의 POV와 민족주의적인 항의를 소스화된 내용 대신에 삽입하는 것을 좋아한다.그리고 마지막으로 그의 행동은 WP에 들어맞는다.포룸WP:배틀그라운드. 그뿐. --Wario-Man (대화) 07:34, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@Levivich:이것은 콘텐츠 논쟁과 아무 관련이 없다. 이것은 WP에 관한 것이다.이란 아제르바이잔의 기사를 그가 좋아하는 방식으로 다시 쓰고 싶어하는 NOTHERER Ethno-nationalist 트롤.내 실수는 단순히 그를 무시하거나 그의 WP를 삭제하는 대신 기사의 토크 페이지에서 그와 논의하기 시작한 것이었다.FORPOR과 같은 비협조적인 논평.또한 "제3의 의견"은 와리오맨이었다.나의 출처 제거에 대한 당신의 말에 대해서는 브렌다 셰퍼가 누구인지 한번 봐주면 내가 왜 그녀를 제거했는지 이해할 것이다.---위카비아니 10:32, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그녀를 들여다보았다.브렌다 샤퍼조지타운대 교수[17]하버드대 케네디 행정대학원 카스피안학 연구부장[18] 지낸 하이파대 교수로, MIT 프레스, 펜실베이니아대 프레스 등이 발간한 대서양평의회[19]의 선임 연구위원으로, 미 의회에서 증언한 바 있다.언론에서, 그리고 일반적으로 내게는 그 지역에서 인정받는 학자로 보인다.나는 이것이 허핑턴 포스트[20], 리퍼블릭[21], OCCRP[22]에서의 비난에 관한 것이라고 추측한다.기사에 어떤 내용이 들어가야 하는지, 기사에 어떤 내용이 들어가야 하는지, 어떤 출처를 인용해야 하는지, 인용되지 말아야 하는지에 대한 분쟁이 있는 것으로 보이기 때문에 나는 콘텐츠 분쟁이라고 부른다.레비비치?! 15시 50분, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
분명히 넌 주제에서 벗어난 거야, 여기는 그런 토론할 곳이 아니니까, 기사의 토크 페이지에서 샤퍼에 대해 너와 기꺼이 상의해 볼게.하지만 요컨대, 그래, 위에서 링크한 그 기사들과 다른 사람들에 관한 것이다.---위카비아니 16:43, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@Levivich:이 문제에 대한 당신의 시간과 배려에 감사한다.나는 너의 두 가지 제안이 모두 마음에 드는데, 다음 단계를 위해 내가 무엇을 해야 하는지 말해줘.또한, 나는 그렇게 민감한 주제에 대해서는, 우리는 높은 영향 요인을 가진 가장 신뢰할 수 있고 국제적이며 공정한 연구를 사용해야 한다고 믿는데, 불행하게도 위키비아니가 추가한 1, 2의 콘텐츠 출처는 이러한 자격요건을 충족시키지 못한다.패리보즈26 (대화) 16:59, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@Pariborz26: "다음 단계"에 대한 나의 첫 번째 제안은 기다리면서 아무것도 하지 말고(적어도 며칠 더) 다른 편집자들에게 여기서 논평할 기회를 주고, 다른 편집자들이 어떻게 생각하는지 보는 것이다.나는 오직 나 자신만을 대변하고 다른 사람을 대변하지 않으며, 다른 사람들은 이 문제에 대해 다른 관점을 가질지도 모른다.며칠이 지나도 여기나 기사토크 페이지에 진전이 없으면 분쟁해결 게시판에 도움을 요청하는 것이 좋다.DRN에 게시할 경우, 가능한 한 문제를 좁고 간단하게 유지하십시오(일반적으로 전체 그룹의 사람들에 대한 부당한 대우에 대해 불평하지 말고, 오히려 이 편집이나 특정 기사의 해당 섹션에 대한 의견을 요청하십시오).이게 도움이 되길 바래! ?! ?! 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 차이점, 의견 및 보고된 사용자의 WP에 따라:저스트돈트라이크잇은 다음 같이 말하고 있다.CIR 문제(여기서 그가 높은 영향 요인을 가진 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 제공했다고 생각되는 한 가지 더 예시, 실수로 가득 차 있고 잘 쓰여지지 않은 회사 기사) 나는 다음과 같은 제안을 한다.

====토픽 금지 제안===아제르바이잔 이란과 관련된 모든 주제에 대한 무진장한 주제 금지 조항은 광범위하게 해석되었다.---위카비아니 21:32, 2019년 1월 18일(UTC)[응답]

  • 강한 반대, 세 가지 이유:
  1. 나는 편집자가 어떤 정책을 위반했는지 모르겠다; 어떤 기사의 내용에 대한 이의를 토크로 제기하는 것이 정확히 우리가 해야 할 일이다.이것은 나에게 여전히 행동 분쟁이 아닌 내용 분쟁이 아닌 것 같다.
  2. 두 연구(제안서 위의 위키비아니 논평에서 12)에 대해 우려할 만한 선의의 이유가 있는 것으로 보인다.두 연구 모두 이란계 아제르시스가 이란인이고, 둘 다 이란 대학 출신이며, 어느 것도 크게 인용되지 않으며, 두 연구 모두 영향이 적거나, 영향이 적거나, 없거나, 주목받지 못하는 저널에 게재된다.국제 현대 인류학 저널(RG 또는 SJR, WP의 6개 시트에서 찾을 수 없음)과 국제 면역유전학 저널(Ovid IF 1, SJR H-Index 43, 21개 WP 시트).패리보르츠26이 두 사람을 반대하는 것은 내게는 선의로 보인다.
  3. "여기서 한 가지 더 예시"라는 문장에서 위키바비아가 올린 세 번째 링크는 기사토크 페이지에 실린 훼리보르스의 글인데, 이 글에서 훼리보르즈는 내셔널지오그래픽 프로젝트 2.0참조인구에 관한 기사와 연결되었는데, 위키바비니는 이를 "실수로 가득하고 서툴게 쓰여진 임의의 회사 기사"라고 묘사하고 있다.그러나 토크 페이지 포스트를 읽어보면, 패리보츠는 Geno 2.0 기사를 출처로 포함시킬 것을 주장하는 것이 아니라, 내가 이해한 바와 같이 유전적 다양성과 DNA 연구를 사용하여 사람들을 특정 집단으로 분류하는 과정에서 발생하는 난제를 근거로 해서 오리진 부분을 아예 삭제해야 한다고 주장하고 있으며, 그는 Geno 2.0 연구를 회피로 사용하고 있었다.DNA에 의한 민족 또는 국적 집단의 분류에 관한 더 넓은 요점의 nce.Fariborz를 인용하려면:한 나라나 지역에 사는 사람들은 세계 각지에서 뿌리가 다르기 때문에 더 이상 오리진이라는 용어를 사용해서는 안 된다, 그것은 21세기가 아니라 19세기의 개념이다.
연구 제거나 기사의 오리진 부분에 대해서는 패리보츠가 옳은지 아닌지는 모르겠지만, 어떻게 해서든 그가 그것을 꺼내는 것이 어떠한 종류의 제재도 받을 만한 가치가 있는지 모르겠다. ?! 00:20, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  1. 글쎄, 내가 보기에, 기사의 토크를 아무 출처도 없이 기사에 대한 그의 의견을 말하는 것은 금지되어 있다.배틀그라운드 코멘트는 금지되어 있다.편집은 금지된다.더 필요하십니까? 이 섹션 제목은?나는 왜 Fariborz가 아제르바이잔인들이 이란 태생들을 가지고 있다고 묘사되는 것을 불쾌하게 생각하는지 궁금할 것이다.언어적 민족주의는 분명하지 않다.
  2. 그래서, 당신 말에 따르면, 내가 기사에서 인용한 출처는 이란 사람들이고, 아제르바이잔의 이란 출신을 지지하고 있기 때문에, 그들이 의심스러울 수도 있다고?그러니 눈에 띄지 않는 모든 것을 제거하자(BTW 이것은 아직 증명되지 않았고 당신이 제공한 링크들은 이러한 출처를 불명확하게 하지 않는다, 이란 출처는 종종 서양인보다 덜 유명하기 때문에 인용문이 거의 없다) 영국 관련 주제의 영어 출처, 미국 관련 주제의 비 주목할 만한 미국 출처, 프랑스 관련 프랑스 출처들은 거의 없다.주제 등...
  3. 만약 이 NAT Geo 사회 소식통이 포함되지 않는다면, 왜 그것을 토크 페이지에서 인용하는가?당신이 패리보츠가 제노 2.0 기사를 출처로 포함시킬 것을 주장하지 않는다고 말했을 때 당신은 상당히 틀렸고, 이것은 위와리오맨이 말했듯이, 당신이 아직 이 문제에 익숙하지 않다는 것을 보여준다.패리보츠는 자신의 주장에 대해 "참고자"라고 주장했고, 그는 그것이 높은 품질의 원천이라고 생각하면서 가난한 사람을 포스팅했다.너 그거 봤니? 철자 틀리는 횟수를 잊어버렸어.또 강하게 논란이 되고 있다.Fariborz는 2019년 1월 4일에 첫 편집을 했고 16개의 다른 편집이 이루어졌으며 그 중 단 하나도 실제로 프로젝트를 개선하지 않고 있다. 그 대신 WP는 다음과 같다.포럼WP:배틀그라운드 기여.진짜?!안부 전한다.---위카비아니 01:33, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
이란 민족아제르바이잔의 기사에는 기원과 유전학에 관한 부분이 있지만, 그것들은 민족에 관한 기사들이다.이란 아제르바이잔은 한 나라(이란)의 특정 민족(아제리스)에 관한 기사다.비슷한 기사로는 이란의 쿠르드족, 이란계 조지아인, 이란계 아시리아인, 이란계 아르메니아인, 이란계 투르크인...아무도 원산지, DNA, 또는 민족이 '이란인'인지 '쿠르디쉬인'인지, '조지아인'인지, '아시리아인'인지 등에 관한 부분을 가지고 있지 않다.이란 카자흐인들은 오리진 관련 코너를 갖고 있지만 DNA나 '이란인'인지 '카자흐'인지에 대해서는 언급하지 않고 있다.이란인 아제리가 아제리가 아니라 이란인, 아니 아제리가 이란인이 아니라는 제안은 분명 논란의 여지가 있다.내가 보기엔 편집자들이 토크페이지에서 토론해야 할 그런 종류의 것을 정확히 좋아하는 것 같다.편집자가 더 편집하지 않는 것에 대해, 내 추측으로는 편집자가 편집하지 않는 것은 그들이 처음 대화 페이지에 뭔가를 올렸을 때, 그들이 ANI로 끌려가는 결과를 낳았기 때문이다.하지만 그것은 중요하지 않다; IP 에디터라도 그것을 가지고 ANI에 끌려가지 않고 토크 페이지에 이것을 올릴 수 있어야 한다. ?! ?02:25, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
IP는 원하는 것(다른 사용자와 마찬가지로)을 게시할 수 있지만, 한 가지 조건(다른 사용자도 마찬가지)에서 WP에 따라 소싱되고 검증 가능해야 한다.EQUE. 또한, 원산지 섹션이 없는 다른 기사에 대한 귀하의 발언은 WP의해 이란 아제르바이잔 기사에서 소싱된 내용을 삭제하는 것을 정당화하지 못한다.기타. 그리고 외람된 말씀이지만, 당신은 2개월 된 계정이고, 당신과 더 많은 논의를 할수록, 나는 당신이 많은 위키 지침과 정책에 익숙하지 않다는 것을 깨닫게 된다.이제, 나는 다른 기고자들이 그들의 의견을 내놓도록 하는 것을 제안할 것이다.안부.---위카비아니 02:42, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 틀렸다면 고쳐줘:패리보르즈는 아무것도 제거하지 않았다.패리보츠는 기사 토크 페이지에 글을 올렸고, 당신은 그 글을 삭제했고, 그리고 여기에 글을 올렸지.WP를 제안하십니까?토크 페이지 게시물에 RS가 필요한가?이것에 대해 다른 편집자들로부터 듣는 것이 도움이 될 것이라는 것에 동의한다. ?! ?03:44, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
위 디프트를 한번 봐봐, 너는 계속 무슨 일이 일어났는지 잘못 말하고 있어.--Wikaviani 08:49, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 무슨 일이 일어났는지 잘못 말하고 있는 것이 아니다.편집자는 기사에서 내용을 삭제한 이 없다.편집자는 기사를 편집한 적도 없다.편집자가 한 일은 대화 페이지에 글을 올리는 것뿐이다.누구나 기여도를 보면 알 수 있다. ?!?! 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
미안하지만, 당신은 기사의 토크 페이지가 WP를 게시하기 위한 것이 아니라는 것을 이해하지 못하는 것 같다.포럼, WP:건방진, WP:SOAP 또는 WP:just don't like it message.편집자는 단 한 명의 출처도 제공하지 않았고, 단지 그의 POV와 함께 » 공세적인 제목이 나왔으며, 단지 그의 POV만을 제공하면서 정보원의 말을 반박하는 것이었기 때문에 건설적인 토론에 참여하기를 거절했다. 왜냐하면 그는 자신의 POV만을 제공하면서, 자신의 토크 페이지에 전쟁터 논평을 내고, 나와 와리오맨에 맞서 싸우는 편집 등...이것은 정확히 내가 «라고 부르는 것이 아니다. 편집자가 한 모든 일은 대화 페이지에 글을 올리는 것이다.», 그러니까 그래, 내 말에 따르면, 넌 실제로 그가 한 일을 잘못 말하고 있는 거야.하지만 아래에서 말했듯이, 너희 둘 다 주제 금지에 반대하니까, 그럼 문제 없어. 하지만 내 말을 믿어. 만약 파리보스가 계속 이 곳을 편집한다면, 조만간 다른 사람이 다시 보고할 거야. 단지 이 사람이 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 온 게 아니라는 이유 때문이지.안부.---위카비아니 23:13, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 강한 반대군, 레비비치 당.솔직히, 내가 처음 위키피디아를 사용하기 시작했을 때, 나는 토크 페이지가 무엇에 쓰이는지 전혀 몰랐다.그들이 처음 시작할 때 Fariborz26은 여기서 정확하게 사용했다.사용자:파리보즈26은 그들이 받은 것보다 훨씬 더 좋은 환영을 받을 만했다.그들은 분명히 여기서 최선을 다하고 있다.사용자:레비비치는 이것은 명백히 내용적인 문제일 뿐 행동적인 문제가 아니라고 말했다.나는 뉴 에디터들에 대한 위키비아니의 무시하는 태도가 여기서 보여지는 행동 중 가장 우려되는 것이라고 생각한다.사용자:WikavaniWP를 검토하여 가장 잘 제공할 것이다.물어뜯고 앞으로 그런 실수를 피하라.-매튜 J. 롱 -토크- 05:43, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 패리보츠의 행동 때문이지 그가 새로 온 사람이라서가 아니다(또한, FYI, 나도 나 자신을 꽤 새로운 사람이라고 생각한다).나는 WP를 알고 있다.EQUE와 당신의 정보를 위해, 나는 그와 토론에 참여했고 그가 틀렸다는 것을 보여주는 몇 가지 자료를 제공했다(실제 WP:그러나 내가 자료를 제공하는 동안 그는 단지 WP:FORPOR과 같은 메시지, 이것이 내가 실을 뺐다.나는 Fariborz가 WP라고 생각한다.NOTHERE 사용자, 하지만 관리자들은 내가 이 보고서로 위키 규칙을 어긴다고 생각한다면 자유롭게 나를 제재할 수 있다.안부 전한다.---Wikaviani 07:56, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
Wikaviani, 너는 내가 알고 있는 어떤 규칙도 어기지 않아.그러나 Fariborz26이 기사의 토크 페이지에 기고하는 내용은 다음과 같은 WP를 위반하므로 삭제하는 것은 좋은 정신은 아니었다.TPO. Levivich가 정확하게 지적한 바와 같이, 소재는 주제에 관한 것이므로 결과적으로 삭제되어서는 안 되었다.WP의 두 번째 예는 다음과 같다.당신레비비히에게 이 글을 썼을 때 이런 행동을 할 것이다: 그리고 외람되지만, 당신은 2개월계정이고, 당신과 더 많은 토론을 할수록, 나는 당신이 많은 위키 지침과 정책에 익숙하지 않다는 것을 깨닫게 된다. 이제, 나는 다른 기고자들이 그들의 의견을 내놓도록 하는 것을 제안할 것이다.내가 무시하는 행동을 할 때 내 말은 이러하다.나는 LevivichWP에 익숙하지 않다는 것을 본 적이 없다.모든 측면에서 가이드라인.내가 만약 이것이 사실이라고 느낀다면, 나는 검토가 필요한 구체적인 가이드라인을 지적할 것이다(내가 당신과 WP를 위해 그랬던 것처럼:물다.
Fariborz26에 관해서는, {{subst:첫 번째 기사}에는 이유가 있다.이 메시지나 또 다른 환영 메시지는 새로운 사용자의 첫 번째 기여에 대한 응답에 훨씬 더 적절했을 것이다.이것이 내가 WP를 다시 읽기를 추천한 이유다.우리 모두는 실수를 하기 때문에 WP:굿패이스.마지막으로, 당신은 새로운 사용자가 아니다. 당신은 롤백자다.WP별:RBReq, 롤백은 새로운 사용자를 위한 것이 아니다.롤백 권한을 사용할 준비가 되지 않았다고 생각되는 경우, 관리자(admin)에게 권한 사용 안 함을 요청하십시오.나, 나, 네가 정말 잘하고 있다고 생각하지만, 가끔 사람들한테 너무 쉽게 대해야 해.친절한 안부, -Matthew J. Long -Talk- 19:10, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 난 롤백자야, 난 아직 준비가 안됐다고 말한 적 없어. 하지만 난 이 도구를 공공 기물 파손의 명확한 사례를 되돌리기 위해 사용할 뿐이지, 다른아무것도 없어. 그래서 이번 사건에서는 롤백 도구를 사용하지 않았어.은, 내가 꽤 새로운 사용자라고 했을 때, 내가 여기 위키피디아에서 배울 것이 많다는 거지, 베테랑 편집자들처럼가 아니라.네가 레비비치가 어떤 위키 통치도 어기지 않았다고 했을 때 레비비치가 옳다고 말할 때 나는 너와 동의할 수 없다.위와리오맨(노련한 편집자)이 말했듯이, 패리보르스는 전쟁터적 사고방식을 갖고 있으며, 자신의 환상에 따라 마음에 들지 않는 일부 기사를 다시 쓰자고 제안하고, 기사 토크 페이지에 글을 올려 출처도 없이 자신의 POV를 폭로하는 것만으로 그 기사 중 한 부분이 자신이 좋아하지 않는 현실을 묘사하고 있다는 이유만으로 "공세적"이라고 말했다.e, 이런 말 하기는 싫지만, WP에서는 이 모든 것이 위반이다.지침(WP:포럼, WP:SOAP, WP:배틀그라운드, WP:TEDGENDGESY 등...)위에서 말했듯이, 나에게 Fariborz가 WP라는 것은 오리처럼 보인다.NOTHERE 편집자와 Wario-Man은 내 우려를 같이 하는 것 같지만, 만약 너희들이 주제 금지에 반대한다면, 문제없을 거야, 난 그만둘 거야.안부 전한다.---위카비아니 21:19, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
그런데, 만약 변명의 여지가 없는 주제 금지가 좋지 않게 들린다면, 관리자들은 물론, 관련 제재(파리보르츠에게, 또는 다시 말해, 그들이 내가 자격이 있다고 생각한다면, 나를 위해)를 자유롭게 선택할 수 있다.안부 전한다.---위카비아니 21:28, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

철수, 근접 준비?자세한 내용은 파일러가 논의 후 철회할 의사가 있음을 나타내는 편집 요약을 참조하십시오(고맙다).패리보즈26은 나흘째 편집이 안 되고, 문제의 기사나 토크 페이지에는 편집전이 없고, 모든 것이 조용하고 평화롭다. :-) 패리보스가 기사 토크 페이지에서 다시 문제를 꺼내면 좀 더 침착하고 외교적인 태도로 될 것이고, 그것은 아마 다른 편집자들에게 더 잘 받아들여질 것이다.고마워. ?! 21:27, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답하라]

그래, 위에서 말했듯이, 이것을 계속할 필요는 없어, 비록 너희 둘 다 패리보르즈에 대해 말하는 것에 동의하지 않더라도, 나는 너의 피드백 때문에 스틱을 떨어뜨리고 이미 폐쇄를 요구했어.나는 그들이 그것을 게재한 시간 동안 모든 관련 편집자들에게 감사하고 싶다.우리가 여기서 어떤 것에 대해 동의하지 않든 간에, 가장 중요한 것은 함께 일하는 것이다.안부 전한다.---위카비아니 21:47, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]

차르와의 상호 작용 금지를 요청하는 동점선 07.

이것의 길이에 대해 사과한다.나는 가능한 한 간결하게 하려고 노력했지만, 이번 ANI는 18개월째 만들어지고 있다.다른 사건들도 몇 건 빠뜨렸지만, 내가 아래에 쓴 것은 황제와 상호 교류 금지에 대한 나의 요구가 적절한지를 결정하는 데 충분할 것이다.그렇지 않다면, 나는 필요한 곳에 확장할 수 있다.

배경

이 모든 사건은 Jill Valentine의 추천 기사 후보 지명을 둘러싸고 해결된다.(내가 명목상으로 공헌한) 제1차제2차 FAS를 통해, 그리고 그 후의 동료 검토(나는 기여하지 않았지만, Czar는 주요 참여자였다; 그것은 거의 전적으로 기사를 재탕하고, 원래의 지명자가 그 기사를 포기할 만큼 충분히 적대적이고, 설득력이 있고, 논거가 있었다)를 읽은 후, 나는 s를 썼다.내 샌드박스와 메인 스페이스에서 질 발렌타인을 위해 일하는 몇 주 동안, 이전의 모든 논평자들(특히 성차별과 관련된 모든 항목)이 그것에 대해 평준화되었던 모든 비판을 다루기 위한 선의의 시도를 했다.그 모든 문제들이 해결되었다고 믿고 2018년 5월, 는 FAS에서 그 기사를 다시 만들었다.이미지는 그것의 FUR에 문제가 있지만, 그렇지 않은 경우 사용된 이미지가 적절하다고 판단한(즉, "상호적 중요성") FAS 이미지 검토자는 Czar가 나타나기 전에 코멘트를 한 유일한 사람이었다.그럼에도 불구하고 차르는 이후 별도의 이미지 사용을 놓고 편집전을 시작했다. FAC는 "기사를 다시 지명하기 전에 이전 평론가와 대화를 열어야 한다"는 제안으로 Czar의 반대를 근거로 폐쇄되었다.그리고 나서 나는 그 후 5개월 동안 이전의 21명의 평론가와 연락했고, 그 중 17명이 응답했다.

그 5개월 동안 질의 토크 페이지에서 차르와의 8주간의 토론이 시작되었다.간단히 말해서, 그 논의는 '백그라운드'에서 연결된, 공개적으로 적대적이고 공격적인 동료 검토의 어조의 연속이 되었다.심지어 기사의 오래된 ID를 "검토 중"이라는 지적이 있을 때도, 그는 "하지만점은 유사하게..."과 같은 경우에 적용되는 동시에, 전혀 관련이 없는 점으로 자신의 원래 불만을 수량화했다.그의 또 다른 요점 중 하나는, "1996년에서 2014년까지 갔다가 다시 (1998년)"을 시작하는 것이 실제로 17명의 편집자 명으로부터 받은 요청의 결과, 즉 진정한 합의 구축의 결과로 발전한 것이다.그러나 그가 불평하던 문장이 기사의 다른 부분으로 옮겨지자 그는 "이것은 다른 문제들을 소개한다. 이 R&L은 이제 '철저한 전체'가 아닌 일련의 사실/청구로 읽혀지는데, 이는 무엇보다 사용자가 자신의 의견을 고수하는 악취를 풍긴다.게다가, Czar는 내가 내세우는 단 한 번의 논쟁도 받아들이지 않았고, 그의 평론에서 가장 생산적인 부분은 내가 산문에서 작가를 지우는 것으로 구성되었는데, 나는 단 한 번의 경우를 제외하고는 모두 그 작가 이름을 지웠다.Lisa Foiles, 왜냐하면 나는 그녀가 유명한 작가라고 주장했기 때문이다.8주간의 토론 내내 내가 그를 납득시켰다고 생각한 유일한 일이 그것이었다.대신 는 합의 없이 포일즈의 기사를 다시 썼다.나는 이 단락에 많은 것이 있다는 것을 알고 있고, 내가 원하는 만큼 많은 차이점이 있지 않다는 것을 사과하지만, Czar는 그의 반응을 시간적 여유를 주지 않는 경향이 있다.내가 직접 토론에 참여했음에도 불구하고 그가 "예, 아래 c 참조"로 끝맺은 토론의 연속성을 나조차도 찾을 수 없다.

난관에 봉착한 토크 페이지 토론으로, 나는 그 기사를 FAX에서 다시 만들었다.이 최신의 FAS는 황제를 제외한 모든 사람들이 지지했던 몇몇 이전 평론가의 참여를 끌어냈다.그가 거기서 제기했던 많은 논점들은 단순히 앞 단락에서 내가 여기서 강조했던 주장들의 연속이었다.는 또한 동료 평가에서 자신의 역할에 대해 부정직했다.그는 또 다른 사용자로부터 "FAS 템플릿이 코멘트에 앞서 [an] 기사에 중요한 기여자가 참여했음을 표시해야 한다"는 지적을 받자 "부탁한다"고 답했다.내가 선언해야 할 것은 '검토자 겸 복사 편집자'로 보낸 시간뿐인데, 그것은 근본적으로 사실이 아니었다.2개월간의 동료 검토 중에 그 기사의 전부가 완전히 재구성되었다.그는 또한 21명의 사용자 중 17명이 응답했음에도 불구하고 "지난 FAS 이후 대부분의 편집자들이 피드백을 받기 위해 접촉했다"고 주장하면서, 그 5개월 동안의 이전 검토자들과 접촉함으로써 합의를 도출하려는 나의 시도를 부정적이라고 덧붙였다.그 FAC는 주로 Czar가 "[리셉션 & 레거시 섹션에서] 그녀의 성적 성화에 관한 출처의 상호작용이 터무니없다"고 주장한 결과로 인해 폐쇄되거나 홍보되지 않았다.

이를 염두에 두고, 나는 그의 토크 페이지를 통해 Czar에게 연락하여 R&L의 조직적인 문제들에 대해 한 번, 그리고 내가 특별히 만든 초안을 통해 그의 도움을 요청했다.8주간의 토크 페이지 토론과 그에 따른 그의 우려를 "부적절하게" 시정하려는 나의 시도를 증명하는 그의 사이에, 나는 이것이 가야 할 길이라고 생각했다.대신 그는 또 한 번의 어설픈 글을 올려 나를 "공개적으로 적대적"이라고 부르면서 다시 한번 한 번 다른 문장으로 옮기는 것이 많은 문제를 야기시켰다고 주장하며 이 요청을 적극적으로 거절했다.

상호 작용 금지를 요청하는 나의 목적은 질 발렌타인을 위한 합의를 얻기 위해 비조합적으로 일하는 것을 허락하기 위함이다. 옛 평론가와 새 평론가 둘 다와 함께.이 기사에 대한 나와 차르와의 상호작용은 단순한 내용 논쟁의 범위를 넘어섰다.이것은 결코 끝나지 않고, 자기 모순되는 나쁜 짓이 아니며, 이전의 동료 검토에서 발견된 적대감과 공격성의 직접적인 연속이다.그는 정말로 내가 위키피디아에서 만난 사람 중 가장 파괴적이고 완전히 모욕적인 사용자였다.게다가, 포일즈의 기사에 관해서 그의 최근 반응은 그가 그의 거만한 편집 행동을 뒤에 남겨두었다는 자신감으로 나를 정확히 채워주지는 않는다.그의 비판들 중 많은 것들이 너무 의도적으로 모호해서, 나는 그 누구도 그것을 해결하려고 시도하는 범위와 상관없이, 어떤 사용자도 그것을 해결할 수 없다고 믿는다; 당신은 주장된 한 문제를 단지 다른 사람의 환영을 받기 위해 고친 다음, 그리고 결국 당신은 몇 주 전에 한 일이 "부적절하다"고 들었다.그의 비판은 모두 내가 질 발렌타인이 FA 기준을 결코 충족시키지 못할 것이라는 것을 설득하기 위해 의도적으로 고안된 것 같다. 이것은 특별히 채택한 협력적인 사고방식이 아니지만, 이전 지명자와의 적대적인 토론을 통해서만 질 FAS와 상호작용하게 된 사용자를 나타낸다.그 이후로 그는 타협하거나 합의를 도출하려는 어떠한 시도도 하지 않았고, 사실 는 내가 이미 응답한 문제들에 대해 계속 논쟁하고 있다.

다시 한 번, ANI의 길이에 대해 미안하게 생각하지만, 여기 18개월의 역사가 있는데, 나는 적절하고 간결하게 설명하기 위해 최선을 다했다.나는 이 사용자에게는 정말 더 이상 대처할 수 없기 때문에 이 문제에 대해 어떤 도움이라도 주면 고맙겠다.고마워요.홈스타시스07 (토크) 02:39, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 여성 비디오 게임 캐릭터(보통 논란이 되는 분야가 아님)에 대한 질 발렌타인 기사의 긴 역사를 검토한 후 양방향 아이반을 반대한다.GAN1(2012), GAN2(2013), GAN3(2015), PR1(2017년 5월), GOCE(2017년 6월)를 거쳐서...
  • FAS1(2017년 8월)에서 한 편집자(여기서는 관여하지 않음)가 다음과 같이 썼다.
FAS1 설명

기사는 '핫'이라는 단어를 7번(한 문단에서), '섹시/섹시/섹시' 7번, '베이비' 5번, '매력' 4번, '뷰티/아름다운' 3번, '핫타이' 2번, '빅센' 2번, '짝 놀림' 1번, '슬러티' 1번, 그리고 '더치백의 여자친구'를 사용한다.성차별적인 언어와 트라이비아.지명된 문화적 영향 부문은 인용 부문이 길고 매우 불쾌했다.그것은 그녀를 "콕 놀림", "좆도 없고 가슴도 없는", "더치 백의 여자친구", "슬러티", "빅센" 그리고 한 단락에서 "가장 섹시하다"라고 7번 불렀다.그것은 그녀를 다른 여성 캐릭터들과 비교하며 "누구를 더 좋아하십니까?"라고 물었다.그녀는 50개의 가장 섹시한 게임 애기들 중 26번째라는 등 여러 가지 설렘으로 가득 차 있었다.

홈스타시스07(현시점에서는 유명이 아님)은 여기서 대응했고, 그 대응에 대해 FAS 코디네이터는 같은 스레드로 대응했다.FAS1은 다음과 같은 코멘트로 마감되었다.우리 모두는 얼마나 많은 지지자가 있는지 뿐만 아니라 검토자들의 의견 일치가 없으면 기사가 홍보되지 않는다는 것을 기억할 필요가 있다...나는 이 기사에 무엇이 포함되어야 하는지에 대한 합의를 얻기 위해 여기의 평론가와 함께 일하기를 권하고 싶다.지명자는 동일한 문제가 다음 FAC에서 다시 발생할 수 있다는 것을 명심해야 한다. 단지 몇 명의 편집자가 여기서 제기된 이슈에 동의하지 않는다고 해서 그것들이 FAC에서 무시될 수 있다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.
  • FAS2(2017년 10월) 마감 코멘트:문제의 핵심은 만약/이것이 재조명된다면,/이 문제들에 대해 동일한 논의가 이루어질 것이고, 이 기사가 FA 기준을 충족한다는 평론가의 합의가 없는 한, 그것은 촉진되지 않을 것이다; 현재로서는 그러한 합의는 없지만 시간이 주어지고 FAC 스포트라이트로부터 멀어져 PR에서 한 가지는 달성될 수 있다. 향후의 모든 FAC는 최소 2주(빠른, 적층 지지대가 검토를 방해하지 않도록 하기 위해) 동안 실행해야 할 것이며, 이번에 명명자가 한 것처럼, 반대했던 모든 사람들에게 알리고 의견을 개진하도록 초대해야 한다(지지한 모든 사람들이 그러하듯이).
  • PR2(2017년 11월)는 기사의 토크 페이지에 출국통지문을 올린 후, 유목민에 의해 폐쇄되었다.
  • FAS3(2018년 5월)는 홈스타시스에 의해 지명되었는데, 그는 ...을 썼다.나는 그들이 긍정적이든 부정적이든, 어떤 사전 검토자와도 접촉하지 않기로 결정했다.차르는 다음과 같이 썼다: 나쁜 생각. 이건 일반적인 예의고 또 다른 명의를 시작하기 전에...클로저는 다음과 같이 썼다. 미안하지만, 지난번 FAX에서 오픈한 문제가 해결되지 않은 게 분명해서 이 일을 마무리하려고 해. 마지막 동료평가는 아직 테이블 위에 놓여 있는 이슈들로 인해 좌절감에 휩싸여 종결된 것 같다. FAS는 어떤 것을 표준으로 끌어올리는 장소가 아니다. 이 기사를 다시 지명하기 전에 이전 평론가와 대화를 나눌 것을 권하고 싶다.
  • 대화는 차르의 토크 페이지파트 2파트 3에서 이루어졌다(토크 페이지 와처 코멘트 포함: ...이는 심각한 의혹이며, 발렌타인 FAS에 반대했던 세 명의 행정관이 연루되어 있다.)
  • FAS4(2018년 12월)는 홈스타시스에서 다음과 같이 명명되었다.이전의 21명의 편집자들과의 나의 상호작용을 요약한 내용은 이 FAS의 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있다...여기에 코멘트에 조금이라도 관심을 표명한 유일한 사용자 ping: 사용자 이름 5명, 그 중 4명은 이전 FAS에서 지지 투표를 했고 1명은 PR(정당한)에 참여했다.클로져의 논평: ...나는 여기와 기사 Talk 페이지에 있는 Czar의 피드백은 광범위한 유효한 피드백을 예시와 함께 제공하는 우리의 운영 개념을 보여주는 좋은 예라고 생각한다. 나는 1a에 대한 기사와 기사의 일반적인 주제들에 대한 명확한 검토를 나타내는 훨씬 더 많은 지원을 보아야만 기존의 반대파보다 내가 편하게 홍보할 수 있을 것이다.
  • FAS4 클로져의 대화 페이지
  • Czar의 토크 페이지에 있는 대화 4부 (나는 우연히 이 토크 페이지에 다음 실을 올리게 되었는데, 그것은 내가 이것을 어떻게 보았는가 하는 것이다. 그렇지 않으면 나는 관여하지 않는다.)
위의 내용들, 특히 크자르의 토크 페이지에 있는 대화들 중 "3부"와 "4부"를 검토한 후, 나는 양방향 상호 작용 금지가 효과적으로 문제를 다룰 것이라고 생각하지 않기 때문에 반대한다.다른 사람의 생각을 읽어주길 기대하고 있어. ?! ?! 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
FAS 1과 2는 물론 PR2[모두 나의 첫 번째 지명인 FAS3를 사전 예약]가 이를 해결했기 때문에 성차별에 관한 문제는 이 ANI에 영향을 미치지 않는다.FAC3의 지명 진술은 여기서 다소 맥락을 벗어난 것이다.이어 "이전 FAS는 이번 지명이 어떤 이들에게는 최소한으로 중요한 이슈로 자리 잡게 해왔기 때문에 나는 그들이 긍정적이든 부정적이든 어떤 사전 검토자들과도 접촉하지 않기로 결정했다"고 덧붙였다. 만약 요청하신다면, PAC 코디네이터들이 내가 그것을 리노메이션을 했다고 모두에게 알리는 데 문제가 없을 겁니다… 게다가, 나는 주변의 신선한 눈이 FAS3를 훨씬유익한 경험으로 만들 수도 있다고 생각한다."이 인용문은 "...이것은 심각한 주장이며, 발렌타인 FAS에 반대했던 세 의 행정관이 연루되어 있다"는 별도의 문제와 관련이 있는데, 나는 이 문제가 복잡해지기 때문에 이 문제를 언급하지 않기로 결정했다.나는 위키백과 도서관의 누군가로부터 일련의 "독필" 이메일을 받았는데, 그 이메일에서 한 관리자가 나를 "스컴백"과 "성차별주의자 개자식"이라고 불렀다고 한다.또한 이 인용문을 쓴 사용자는 "대화 페이지 와처"가 아니라 처음 두 개의 FAS에 관여했고 아마도 PR2에 가장 큰 기여를 했을 것이다.그리고 '백그라운드'에서 설명했듯이, FAC3는 "기사를 다시 지명하기 전에 이전 검토자들과의 대화를 열어라"는 제안으로 폐쇄되었기 때문에, 나의 행동이 탐사로 간주될 수 있다는 암시는 부당하다.
나는 더 이상 끊임없이 이의를 제기할 필요성을 느끼지 않는 지점까지 차르의 불평 중 어떤 것도 해결할 가능성이 있다고 믿고 싶지만, 지금까지 나의 경험은 그런 일이 일어날 수 있는 아주 먼 가능성조차 존재한다는 인상을 내게 남기지 않았다.위 포스트의 차이점이 보여주듯이, 그는 적대적이고, 꾸밈이 없고, 건방진 태도를 보여 왔다.나는 이 시점에서 12주 이상 그의 우려를 해소하기 위해 노력했지만, 그의 우려는 계속해서 오고 가고 있고, 이는 불안하다는 것을 의미한다.이것을 ANI에 가볍게 가져다 주겠다는 결정을 내린 것은 아니지만, 다른 선택의 여지가 없다는 생각이 드는 지경에 이르렀다.홈스타시스07 (토크) 16:20, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 혼란을 피하기 위해 여기에 메모를 하고 싶었다. Homeostasis07이 "Wipedia Library"의 누군가로부터 일련의 "독성펜" 이메일을 받았다고 말할 때, 나는 이것이 주요 이슈가 제기되는 것과 관련이 있다고 믿는다. 그리고 - 상황에 대한 내 지식과 이해의 최선에 - 위키백과 도서관 pr에서 일하는 사람은 아무도 없다.Oject는 WMF 직원이든 자원봉사 코디네이터든 간에 그들이 받은 괴롭힘 중 일부를 그들이 인지할 수 있도록 홈스타시스에 전달하는 것 외에는 괴롭히는 이메일을 보내왔다.샘왈튼9 (WMF) (토크) 11시 7분, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
이걸 설명해줘서 고마워, 샘인정해야겠는데, 사용자:Levivich는 이메일과 관련된 무언가를 인용한다.그것은 당신이 이전에 제안했던 신뢰안전팀이나 RfO에 대한 문제일 수도 있다.어떤 경우든 ANI와 같은 공개 포럼에는 분명 적합하지 않다.홈스타시스07 (토크) 01:33, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
@Homeostasis07: 나는 여기 내 논평에서 이메일에 대해 아무 말도 하지 않았다; 너는 그 세부사항을 소개했다.나는 SlimVirginHomeostasis07을 쓴 지난달의 토크 페이지 토론에서 인용했다. 이것은 심각한 혐의다. 그리고 그것은 발렌타인 FAS에 반대했던 세 명의 행정관,Ealdgyth, Czar 그리고자신을 포함한다.(Courtesy pings) 당신이 여기 있는 Czar에 대한 보고서가 Valentine FAS에 대해 언급했지만, 명백히 당신이 Czar에 대해 한 "심각한 주장"에 대해서는 언급하지 않았기 때문에 나는 타당하다고 느꼈다.내가 여기에 쓴 글이 부적절하다면 사과할게.나는 이것을 읽고 있는 모든 관리자에게 내가 쓰지 말았어야 하는 모든 것을 삭제하거나 수정해 달라고 부탁할 것이다.고마워! ?!? 2019년 1월 23일 01:51 (UTC)[응답하라]
네 말이 맞아, 넌 이메일을 전혀 언급하지 않았어.하지만 당신은 이 토크 페이지 토론에서 (즉, "심각한 혐의")를 인용했는데, 위키백과 도서관 프로젝트에서 자원봉사자가 전달하여 위키백과 관리자로부터 수많은 괴롭힘과 모욕적인 이메일을 받는 것과 관련된 대화였습니다. 이 대화 내용은 특별히 ANI와 관련이 없는 것이었습니다. 내가 말했듯이, 이 ANI와 A의 행동들은다수의 사용자 – 제작 기간이 18개월이었습니다.홈스타시스07 (토크) 02:13, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]

아미트크르5339

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

아미트크르5339는 기사를 작성할 때 참고문헌을 포함시켜야 하고 공신력을 입증해야 한다는 말을 여러 차례 들었지만, 계속 참고문헌이 없는 기사를 만들어냈다.그의 사용자 토크 페이지에는 새로 만든 페이지들이 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않다고 여겨져 드래프트 스페이스로 옮겨졌고, 그의 기여 페이지에는 참고문헌 없이 새로 만든 기사가 더 많이 실려 있다.편집자가 영어를 이해하지 못하는지는 모르겠지만, 위키피디아의 정책과 지침을 준수하는 데 분명히 문제가 있다. --David Biddulph (토크) 10:52, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]

(토크 페이지 감시자) 데이빗과 나는 선의의 태도를 취하려고 노력했고, 아미트크르5339를 새로운 사용자로 취급하면서, 그의 편집사항과 refs 사용법 등을 설명하려고 노력했다.는 메시지(디프)를 읽었지만 마치 이 사용자가 반응하는 것을 귀찮게 하지 않는 것처럼 보인다.는 영어를 잘 이해하고 있으며, 드물게 자신의 토크 페이지에 회신했다.그는 [23]비하르셰이크푸라 지역 크리켓 클럽(바이하 크리켓 협회의 일부)과 일종의 감정적/직업적 관계를 맺고 있으며, 그의 편집은 주로 WP:크리켓과 다른 스포츠와 관련이 있다고 진술했다.그는 WP:과거 AFC는 몇 번의 거절이 다시 메인 스페이스에 대한 기사를 만들기 시작한 후인 것 같다.나는 WP를 의무적으로 사용하는 것에 대한 제한이 있다고 믿는다.새로운 기사를 만드는 기사 마법사가 이 사용자에게 배치되어야 한다.그렇지 않으면 증분 블록으로 이어진다. --DBIGXrayray 12:48, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
나도 선의로 생각하고 싶지만, 이 경우, 이런 패턴은 몇 달째 계속되어 왔는데, 그 우려를 해소하기 위해 편집자로부터의 통신도 거의 또는 전혀 없었다.나는 만약/그들이 그것에 회신할 때 그리고 이 새로운 기사들이 야기하는 문제들을 인정한다면 해제될 수 있는 소프트 블록을 지지한다.러그넛 17:11, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 막았다.사용자는 문제를 해결하려는 의지를 보이지 않았다.나는 그들이 이 토론에 참여하기를 원한다면 차단을 해제할 수 있어 기쁘다.— 마틴 (MSGJ · talk) 23:17, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]

그것은 가혹해 보인다.그러나 ANI 209.152.44.201 (토크) 02:05, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]에 있어서는 예사롭지 않다.
전혀 가혹하지 않다.사용자는 이러한 우려에 대해 충분히 논의할 수 있는 기회가 있었다.그것을 여기로 가져오는 것은 최후의 수단이었다.— 마틴 (MSGJ · talk) 16:13, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 광고 차단 편집 제한 사항 다른 방법이 모두 소진되어 문제가 소진되고 있는 것 같다.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 11:04, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

비소싱 정보 제거

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

42.110.153.26의 IP 사용자는 기사에서 내용을 삭제하고 "참조되지 않은 섹션"이라는 일반적인 의견을 제시하는 여러 가지 편집을 했다.편집 중인 기사에 내용이나 참조를 추가하지 않는 것으로 보인다.나는 그들의 토크 페이지를 통해 IP 사용자들에게 연락을 취했지만 그들이 응답할지 의심스럽다.이것을 반달로 취급할까?조언해 주시죠.미스터 제로 20:11, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

네가 이걸 올리기 전에 차단됐어.네이처리움 (토크) 20:16, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 한눈에 봐도 그들의 제거는 상당 부분 좋다; 벨가리아는 여전히 벵골의 옛 세계의 매력을 배어내고 있다. 벵골 신시대의 세계문화는 아직 마을을 관통하지 못했다.[24]는 분명히 비경련적이다.[25]의 경우, 고등학교로 가는 버스 노선이 필요하지 않을 수도 있지만, 참조가 부족해서 그것을 삭제하는 주된 이유는 아니다. 온라인 지도 서비스에서 그 정보는 확실히 확인될 수 있다.하지만 IP 편집자가 이와 같이 잠재적으로 논란의 소지가 있는 편집을 하려면 계정을 등록해야 할 것이다. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:16, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
@Mr Xaero: IP는 31시간 동안 차단된다.나는 그들을 주시하고 금지가 만료되면 그들의 행동을 볼 것을 제안한다.임파서블위저드(챗) 20:18, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 IP 사용자가 편집한 모든 수정 사항을 기사의 비참조 자료임에도 불구하고 좋은 척도로 되돌렸다.미스터 제로 20:25, 2019년☎️ 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
단지 확인해보려고, 제로 씨 - 당신이 그들의 제거 작업을 모두 복직시켰다는 말씀이세요?power~enwiki는 그가 그들의 제거 중 많은 부분이 좋다고 생각했다고 말했다. 그가 인용한 것은 확실히 비위생적인 것으로 보이며, 복직되지 말았어야 했다.그들을 먼저 훑어보고 의심스러운 사람들만 복직시켰니?GirthSummit (blether) 08:43, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
@Girth Summit(sigh) - 그래 나는 모든 편집을 되돌렸다.그러나 나는 정보가 제거된 기사를 보고 출처를 제공하려고 시도하고 있다.출처를 쉽게 찾을 수 없는 경우, 해당 영역에 {{참조되지 않은 섹션} 또는 {{Citation need}}을(를) 추가하고 있다.(Please don't hit me hard with the ban hammer)미스터 제로☎️ 12:49, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
인용에 필요한 태그가 대부분 제거되는 것보다 훨씬 낫지만, 위의 인용문의 문제는 소싱보다는 스타일이다. 즉, 비절제한 복식이라 하더라도 출처가 더 낫지 않을 것이다.편집이 별로 없었으니, 오늘 오후 한 번 훑어보고 스타일 검토해보겠다(먼저 도착하지 않는 한).건배거스미트 (blether) 13:32, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
동의해. 애초에 포함시키지 말았어야 했으니 명백히 비합리적인 정보는 삭제하려고 해.슬프게도 인도 내 지역에 관한 대부분의 기사는 이 "정보"로 채워져 있다.미스터 제로 14:05, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 위에 언급된 것에 동의한다; 나는 이 IP 사용자가 편집한 대부분의 문제들에 대해 내가 발견한 문제를 보지 않는다.Girth Summit에서 언급한 바와 같이, 이러한 많은 경우에서 {{cn} 또는 {{Citation need}} 템플릿을 추가하는 것이 선호되었을 것이지만, 그러한 콘텐츠가 도전받고 있다면 거의 모든 부분에 대해 미참조 콘텐츠를 함께 제거하는 것은 분명 괜찮았다.제로 씨, 다음에 이런 상황에 처하게 되면, 간단히 모든 편집을 되돌리기 전에 각 편집을 검토하는 것이 항상 최선이다.이렇게 하면 심각한 정책 위반을 다시 기사로 되돌릴 위험이 없으며, 궁극적으로 '실행 취소'를 덜 해야 한다는 것을 의미하므로 클릭이 덜 필요하게 된다. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)11:01, 2019년 1월 24일(UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

2600:1700:4210:810::/64에 대한 범위 블록 요청

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

편집: 특별:기여금/2600:1700:4210:810::/64

Special에 의한 차단 회피:기여/2600:1007:b000::/42. 동일한 편집:이전 범위, 새로운 범위.

이 범위에도 3개월 블록 요청.이 범위는 자주 사용되지 않지만, 모든 편집은 TV와 관련된 거짓 정보로 나타난다.

에버그린피르 (대화) 21:58, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

블록 회피와 교란이 어디까지 진행되는지 좀 더 깊이 들여다볼 때까지 /64 IPv6 범위에 2주 블록을 적용했다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 23:09, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:사베에카임란파키스탄

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사베에카임란파키스탄(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)
인도 아대륙의 알카에다(토크 히스토리 편집 보호 로그 보기 로그 보기)
이 사용자는 인도 아대륙[26]에 있는 알카에다 기사에 대해 인도를 동맹국 섹션에 배치하여 이러한 주장을 뒷받침할 소스가 전혀 없는 방식으로 파괴적인 편집을 해왔다.사용자의 작업 중단 편집[27]에 대한 몇 가지 차이점[[28]. 나는 추가적으로 사용자가 아비셰크9779의 한 조각이라고 의심한다. 이 블록이 다른 IP 주소를 통해 빠져나가는 것을 방해하는 편집을 해왔기 때문이다. 반반달리즘 부대 소속 Rzvas가 프런티어 군단이나 인터 서비스 인텔리전스 같은 다양한 페이지에서 블록 회피자의 파괴적인 편집을 멈출 때까지 말이다.-산 157(토크)

  • Sabeekaimranpakistan은 애매하게 편집한다.나는 그들에게 비협조적인 편집에 대한 경고를 남겼다.양말 사용 금지 - DLOhcierkim (대화) 20:10, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Hijiri88과의 양방향 상호 작용 금지를 요청하는 Dream Focus

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 그에게서 벗어나기 위해 위키피디아를 떠났지만, 그가 몇 주 동안 스스로 차단되었다는 말을 듣고 돌아왔다.그는 분명히 여전히 나의 기여를 따르고 있으며, 살아있는 사람들의 전기 기사 페이지에 나에 대한 장황한 소문을 게재할 필요성을 느꼈다.[29]

그가 늘 하는 말도 안 되는 비난 중에는 그가 지난 11월 내 토크 페이지에 익명의 IP가 헛소문을 게시한 것에 대해 나를 비난하는 것도 포함되어 있는데, 나는 그것이 게시된 지 몇 분 만에 되돌아갔고, 나는 누군가 내 토크 페이지에 글을 올린 이메일을 받았다. 그는 어떻게 해서든지 그것을 알아차리고, 그 당시 그것을 모든 사람들이 상상할 수 있다고 비난하고, 그리고 나서 나를 비난하기로 결정했다.그리고 나서 나는 왜 그것이 분명히 내가 아닌 이유를 내 토크 페이지에 열거했고, 그리고 그와 이치를 따지려는 것을 포기하고 그를 무시했다.

나는 그가 그것과 다른 헛소리에 대해 나를 비난하지 않았으면 좋겠다.누군가가 그가 올린 글을 보고 만약 그가 거기에 그것을 게시하는 것이 허용된다고 생각한다면 나에게 말해줄 수 있을까?나는 그를 피하기 위해 최선을 다했지만, 그는 나의 기여를 따르는 것과 내가 한 모든 것을 비난하는 것을 멈추기를 거부했고, 나는 그에게서 벗어나기 위해 위키피디아를 떠나야 했다. 드림 포커스 05:35, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 히지리88 여기."논문불합치"가 "거기에 게시할 수 있는"지에 대한 언급과는 큰 차이가 있다. (요컨대, OP가 어떻게 불신하게 행동하고 있는지에 관한 모든 논평은 일반적으로 BLPN에 적합하지 않을 것이다. 나는 내가 왜 로그아웃했는지 설명하던 맥락에서, 어떤 "블록 탈피" 혐의를 격추하기 위해, 그렇게 해야 한다.해당 토크 페이지 토론은 리바이드(rev-deed)해야 한다는 정책 기반 주장과 이 사건에서 아무 잘못도 하지 않은 사람에 대한 제재를 지지한다.드림 포커스는 결국 차단되기 전 몇 달 동안 나를 괴롭혔고, 그 시점 이후에도 편집 내용을 극도로 면밀히 관찰했으며, 5개월 후 내가 은퇴 메시지를 올리면 즉시 다시 나타났다("나는... 그는 몇 주 동안 스스로 차단되었다는 말을 들었다"). 그는 내가 차단되기 하루 이상 전에 편집을 시작했다[30]31]). 나는 DF를 내 등에 업지 않게 하기 위한 일방적 상호 작용 금지에 대해 기쁘거나, 같은[32][33] 또는 "불법 이민자"에 대한 공격 때문에 TBAN이 반복적으로 표절에 대해 차단되어 있을 수도 있다. (아마도 그에게는 미국 시민을 제외한 모든 사람이 포함된다.)
내가 지난 7월 ANI에 가져온 DF의 문제는 다소 걷잡을 수 없게 되었고, 몇몇 편집자들은 단지 그것을 닫기 위해 "무과실" 양방향 IBAN을 지지했지만, 그것은 대신 그러한 행동에 대한 아무런 합의 없이 끝났고, 나중에 논의된 것은 본질적으로 "DF는 히지리를 내버려 둘 필요가 있다"는 것이었고, 그것은 이 분쟁에 대한 나의 의도는 아니었다는 점에 유의하기 바란다.여기서 다시 폭발할 수 있도록, 그리고 이 사건에 대해 지역사회에 사과하지만, 지난 5개월 동안 내가 프로젝트를 일시적이거나 영구적으로 떠날 것이라는 어떤 징후를 위해 편집된 내용을 면밀히 관찰한 것은 그 사람이었기 때문에, 이 사건에서의 폭발은 100% DF가 하고 있다는 것을 감사해야 한다.
또한 관리자(administrator)의 사용자 삭제에 반대하지 않는다.비쇼넨이 날 차단했어미안하지만, 나는 블록을 요청한 이후로 어느 정도 힘을 냈고, 백과사전을 다시 만들고 싶다. 그것은 단지 당신의 블록이 만료되도록 하는 것이 나의 의도였다. 하지만 이 사건은 본질적으로 내가 로그아웃을 몇 번 게시하도록 강요했고, 나는 그렇게 한 것에 대해 나를 비난하는 사람을 상대하고 싶지 않다.앞으로 일주일 정도 (바쁜 IRL) 편집은 아직 많이 안 할 것 같으니까, 정말 형식적인 거야.나 역시 '차단해제하지 말라'는 조건을 알고 있는데, 그래서 차단을 하거나 아니면 그대로 둘 수 있지만, 마음을 바꾸기 전에 동의한 사전 조건 때문에 차단을 거부당한다면, 그래도 '차단 회피' 혐의를 받을 필요는 없다.
103.5.140.152 (대화) 06:04, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 누군가가 한 편집을 되돌렸다. [34] 그리고 나서 바로 그 이유를 설명하는 토크 페이지에 글을 올렸다.토크:Undocumented_청년_in_the_United_States#그들_are_not_"미등록_학생",_그들_have_ample_documents_on_them.어쨌든, 내가 왜 그러겠어?누군가가 그가 몇 주 동안 자리를 비울 것이라는 것을 눈치채고 이메일을 보내서 나는 다시 편집을 시작했다.그는 오랜 시간 편집한 내용을 체리 픽업해서 문맥에서 꺼낼 수 있고, 나는 아무도 읽지 않을 긴 토론에 들어가고 싶지 않다.그가 내 기여를 따르거나 나에 대해 이야기하는 데는 괴롭힘 외에는 가능한 이유가 없다. 드림 포커스 06:13, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
나 이러면 안 될 것 같아.너희 둘 다 그냥 내버려두고 지역사회가 그렇게 하도록 강요하지 않을래?닐 아인(토크) 06:14, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그것이 가능했으면 좋겠지만 그는 양방향 상호 작용 금지가 없는 한 이것을 멈추지 않을 것이다. 드림 포커스 06:16, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 이 답장을 가지고 너에게 말하고 있으니, 나는 지금 그가 하는 일을 조금도 개의치 않는다.난 네가 뭘 하든 상관없어. 그리고 넌 그를 내버려둬야 한다고 말하는 거야.그가 불공평하게 추구하고 있다고 느꼈기 때문에 위키피디아를 떠난 것이다.그랬을지도 모르지, 하지만 다시 얘기하니까 지금은 신경도 안 써내가 너의 토크 페이지를 방문했을 때, 나는 네가 한때 차단되지 않고 그를 완전히 내버려 두라고 명시적으로 말했지만, 네가 계속 그에 대해 이야기했기 때문에 다시 묶여 있다는 것을 알게 되는 것을 정말 걱정한다.이것은 분명히 너도 그를 그냥 내버려둘 수 없다는 것을 말해준다.솔직히, BLP/N에서의 그의 게시물은 그 사람이 실제로 그렇게 말하지 않는 한, 당신의 논평[35]이 매우 나쁘게 보인다는 점을 그가 지적했음에도 불구하고, 스스로 그 말을 했고 그를 잘 반성하지 않았다.(재개발이 되었는지라 잘 모르겠다.어떤 것에라도 대응하고 싶다면, 아마도 그것만이 대응할 만한 가치가 있는 것이었을 것이다.하지만 당신은 그가 실제로 당신을 되돌리거나 그런 것이 아니었기 때문에 그냥 내버려둘 수도 있었다.닐 아인(토크) 06:24, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
드래그(옷)는 트랜스젠더 기사의 일부분이다.그게 어떻게 다른 사람을 괴롭힐지 확실하지 않아.그가 그 기사에서 어떤 표현을 썼는지 정확히 기억하지 마라, 지금은 막혔지만, 그 토크 페이지에는 여전히 그의 트랜스젠더 고발이 나와 있다.어쨌든, 다시 이야기 하자면, 나는 그가 나를 따라다니며 쉴 새 없이 나에 대해 쓰레기 같은 이야기를 하는 것에 대해 불평하고, 그리고 나서 내가 내 토크 페이지에서 편집자들과 그 사건에 대해 계속 이야기할 수 있다고 믿었기 때문에 차단되었고, 그것은 몇몇 사람들을 괴롭혔다.그는 위키피디아에서 그랬던 것처럼 계속해서 나를 따라다니며 글을 올릴 이유가 없다.전기_of_living_명/공지판#vandal_claiming_astronaut의_딸_is_really_a_transgender_boy. 드림 포커스 06:40, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 든든한 지지.히지리가 이런 이반들을 좋아하지 않고 편집에 낙담하는 모습을 보면 아쉬움이 남는다.어떤 이유에서인지 나는 항상 H가 다소 매력적이라고 생각했고, 그는 S.E. 아시아 주제에 대한 우리의 취재에 매우 귀중한 기여를 한 것 같다.다크나이트 실에서 BMK는 히지리와 다른 편집자들이 관련된 많은 역사가 있다는 것에 대해 가장 현명해 보이는 점을 지적했다.아마 H&Dream도 그럴 테지만, 몇 시간 동안 살펴본 만큼 요약을 해주겠다.그들 관계의 처음 몇 달 동안은 H가 연락을 시작한 사람이었지만, 대체로 잘못이 큰 사람은 드림이었다.하지만 2018년 6월 중순 이후, 거의 전적으로 H가 그 불화를 살려왔다.Dream은 H에게 자신을 혼자 내버려두라고 거듭 호소했지만 H는 그냥 일을 그냥 내버려두지 않을 것이다.사실 그렇게 간단하지는 않지만, 나는 그것이 공정한 요약이라고 생각한다.H는 이미 적어도 하나의 iban을 가지고 있기 때문에, 나는 그가 다른 iban을 갖는 것에 큰 해를 끼치지 않는다고 본다.누가 너무 비난받았는지 결정하기 위해 역사를 분석하는데 많은 시간을 할애할 필요가 이상적으로 없어야 한다.
@Dream – FWIW, 나는 H가 대체로 옳다고 생각한다.이민자들에 대한 회의적인 견해는 내가 다소 해롭다고 생각하는 것이지만, 그것은 많은 나라에서 분명한 다수 의견이기 때문에 NPOV를 위한 위키피디아에 표현되어야 한다.하지만 중요한 것은, 관점을 대변하는 것과 외국인 혐오증에 빠져드는 것 사이에는 미묘한 차이가 있다는 것이다.네가 멋지다고 생각하지만, 네가 그 선을 밟을 수 있는 기술을 가지고 있다는 것이 내게는 분명하지 않아.당신의 기여가 매우 좋은 다른 많은 주제들이 있다.아니면 만약 당신이 계속해서 이민 기사를 편집한다면, 당신의 표현과 다른 사람들의 말에 귀를 기울이도록 각별히 주의해라.FeydHuxtable (talk) 08:20, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
이러한 이유로 강력한 지원으로 업그레이드.히지리88은 다소 긴 블록의 위험을 안고 있는 것 같고, 이반이 훨씬 더 나은 선택인 것 같다.특히 지금 H는 비쇼넨스의 규칙을 존중하지 않은 것에 대해 사과했고 지역사회의 시간을 낭비한 것에 대해 사과했다. 블록 연장은 부당해 보인다.Mirm에 따르면, H의 POV로부터 그들은 BLP 보드에 공격을 개시할 타당한 이유가 있다고 생각했을지도 모른다.
많은 편집자들은 H의 좋은 기여가 없다면 그것이 얼마나 손해인가를 인정하는 듯하지만, 왜 우리가 2방향 아이반으로 Dream을 보호하는 것이 좋을까에 대해 말한 것만큼은 아니다.물론 그 불화의 초기 부분에서 Dream의 편집은 매우 비난받아 마땅했다.하지만 10년 넘게 Dream을 알고 지낸 사람으로서, 그것은 전혀 성격이 맞지 않았다.Dream의 친절함, 생산성, 그리고 다른 사람에 대한 도움은 그를 모범적인 편집자로 환영해 왔다.드림씨의 강연을 한 번 훑어보면 그의 훌륭한 편집이 수년간 지역사회의 다양한 구성원들로부터 많은 감사를 받았다.2가지 방법은 매우 다른 방식으로 훌륭한 기고자인 두 명의 편집자를 유지할 수 있는 가장 좋은 기회를 준다.FeydHuxtable (talk) 20:16, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지 히지리88이 지난 번으로부터 아직 스스로 정한 블록 아래에 있는 동안 다시 이곳에 온다는 것은 실망스럽지만, 그들이 그냥 지나칠 수 없다는 것은 분명하다.BLPN에서의 이 논평은 전적으로 불필요했다.그 토론은 DF가 게시판에 가져온 꽤 합리적인 토론이었다.히지리는 다른 편집자들이 시작하는 무작위 스레드로 공격하기 위해 주변의 다른 편집자들을 따라다니지 않고 휴식을 취하는 것으로 되어 있다.이 논평은 그 자체로 무엇이 붙는지 보기 위해 진흙을 던지는 것이나 다름없다. - 표절된 글들을 게시하는 것, 그리고 주로 입증되지 않은 인신공격인 "DF"는 여전히 나를 괴롭히고 있다; "불법적인 양말장난," 8월에 잠깐 차단되었을 때 갑자기 다시 나타났고, 그리고 내가 은퇴한 사람들을 다시 올렸을 때.이번 달 초 현자"; 모든 것이 사실이라고 가정하더라도, 아이가 트랜스젠더라고 주장하는 다른 편집자에 대한 BLPN 토론과 무슨 관련이 있는가?결국 그 논평은 DF가 문맥에서 만든 논평을 받아, 살아있는 사람에 대한 논평이었다면 그것은 BLP 위반이라고 말함으로써 당면한 문제에까지 귀착된다.그럴지도 모르지만, 살아 있는 사람에 대한 코멘트가 아니었는데 무슨 의미가 있겠는가?「편집자가 아닌 내용에 집중한다」는 히지리가 몹시 마음에 새겨야 할 조언이다.골든링 (토크) 09:59, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 코멘트 2방향 IBAN - 히지리가 자신의 계정에서 스스로 차단된 곳에 있었다는 것을 보는 DF는 절대적으로 어떻게 보이는가(그리고 어쨌든, 내가 왜 그런 짓을 하겠어)라는 것을 왜 그 이후로는 그를 면밀히 감시하지 않았음을 분명히 하자. 누군가가 그가 몇 주 동안 자리를 비울 것이라는 것을 눈치채고 이메일을 보냈기 때문에 나는 다시 편집하기 시작했어, 말도 안 되는 헛소리야.) 그리고 히지리가 응답하는 데 한계가 있을지도 모른다는 것을 알고 ANI에서 그 오프닝을 이용해 어떤 똥을 휘젓기로 했다.나는 이것을 기회주의적이고 신의가 없는 책략 이외의 것으로 보기가 어렵다.앞서 IBAN에 대한 논의는 DF의 행동에 대해 훨씬 더 많은 우려를 발견했고, 이 시점에서 나는 DF를 위한 일방 IBAN 형태의 부메랑을 보는 것을 꺼리지 않을 것이다.그리고 공식적으로 히지리는 IP로 편집하기 위해 모습을 드러내지 말고 스스로 요청한 블록을 준수하고 휴식 시간을 지켜야 한다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 11시 14분, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    또 다른 WP를 기반으로 반대 방향으로 전환:IDHT와 DF와의 상호작용.무엇이 현재의 보고서를 자극했든 간에, DF는 현재 진행중인 문제다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 12:01, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 코멘트는 "히지리는 IP로 편집하기 위해 모습을 드러내지 말고 스스로 요청한 블록을 준수하고 휴식시간을 지켜야 한다"고 말했다. 동상이 손으로 머리를 들고 있는 사진은 "이거아니지?- Dlohcierkim (토크) 11:27, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답하라]
    (충돌 편집)몇 시간 전에 그가 [36]에 올린 글을 읽어 보셨나요?그리고 나서 나는 이것을 ANI에 가져왔다.그는 이미 여기에 글을 올렸기 때문에 응답에 제한을 받지 않는 것이 분명하다.그는 또한 골든 링에 대한 응답으로 보이는 것을 이곳이 아닌 자신의 토크 페이지 [37]에 올렸다.IP 주소가 ANI에 게시되지 않도록 하는 것이 있는가? 드림 포커스 11:31, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    히지리에 대해 집착하는 것을 멈추고, 그의 말을 따르는 것을 멈추고, 그가 말하는 것에 대해 걱정하는 것을 멈추고, 과거의 갈등을 놓지 못하는 것에 대해 드라마에 대해 이곳과 다른 곳에서 가져오는 것을 그만두라고 들었다.그리고 여기 다시 한번 말하지만, 전에 당신을 차단했던 것을 하고 있다. 히지리가 뭐라고 했든 상관없다. 이전의 경고와 차단들이 분명히 고쳐지지 않았다는 난감한 태도를 보이고 있다는 것을 나는 당신이 보여주고 있다는 것을 신경쓴다.나는 이미 일방통행식 IBAN을 주장했지만, 아마도 당신은 그것을 내버려두어야 한다는 것을 알아낼 때까지 외설적인 태도를 취해야 할지도 모른다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 11시 44분, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    그래서 그가 나에 대해 모욕적인 헛소리를 하고 싶어하고, 내가 게시하는 것을 보는 곳이라면 어디든 그가 그것에 대해 ANI를 고소할 수 없게 해야 한다고?누군가 당신에게 그런 짓을 한다면 당신은 그것을 받아들일 수 있을 것인가? 드림 포커스 11:48, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    너, 그러지 마듣다그냥 내버려두고, 당신의 시간과 다른 일을 찾고, 히지리에 대한 걱정은 그만둬라.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 11시 57분, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다시 히지리 히지리88 젠장! -- Dlohcierrekim (대화) 14:54, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)당신은 당신의 토크 페이지나 Email Bishonen에서 차단 해제를 요청할 수 있다.이 차단된 사용 IP 사업은 불안하다.여기 편집 가능한 모든 장소들이 있는데, DreamFocus's post에 우연히 나타난다고?그건 그냥 바보 같은 짓이야.IBAN 지원.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 12:08, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 히지리88은 그들의 토크 페이지에 공지되었다.내가 틀릴 수도 있어, 시도해 본 적이 없지만, 만약 그들이 그들의 페이지에 이메일 알림을 설정했다면, 그들은 그 당시에 위키에 없더라도 알림을 받지 않을까?FWIW, 나는 IP 방식을 사용하는 것이 불안하다는 것에 동의하지만, 내 생각은 "세계의 모든 술집 중" 상황을 설명할 것이다. - 시투시 (토크) 12:15, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Sitush:나는 이 논평이 위에서 연계된 BLPN 토론에 대한 Hijiri88의 IP 코멘트와 관련된 것이라고 생각한다 - 아니면 내가 뭔가를 놓치고 있는 것인가?나는 히지리88이 그들의 TP에 대한 토론을 통보받았다고 생각하지 않는다.그리고 @Dlohcierkim:히지리와 히지리88은 AFAICT, 같은 편집자가 아니다.가엾은 남자는 지금 자신이 ANI에서 논의되고 있다고 생각하고 있어...골든링(토크) 12시 31분, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Dream Focus: 미안해, 아니야.나는 앞서 언급한 글을 읽지 않았다.이 정도까지는 이 열정 플레이에 참여할 생각이 없다.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 12:11, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    그 우편물은 너보다 먼저 온 사람을 위한 것이었다.참여해줘서 고마워. 드림 포커스 12:16, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Curly Turkey:당신은 이 특정한 사건의 사실들을 완전히 검토했다.히지리88은 그들 자신의 요구에 막혔지만 완전히 허황되고 주제에서 벗어난 "콘텐츠"로 드림 포커스에 의해 실타래에 끼어들기 위해 애논으로 돌아왔다.ANd 나는 상호 IBAN이 대안 프로젝트에 가장 덜 제한적이고 가장 유익하다고 생각한다.--- DLOhcierkim (talk) 22:22, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
Dlohcierkim : "완전히 훑어보셨군요..."—내가 정말 그랬나?
"애논처럼"—아니, 그는 자신이 누구인지를 선언함으로써 문을 열었다.
"상호 IBAN이 가장 제한적이지 않다"—경고 없이 내버려두는 것 보다 덜 제한적인가?당연히 아니지.
"가장 유익한"—아니, IBAN DF의 요청은 그가 계속해서 문제를 수정할 수 있도록 그의 머리카락에 손을 대지 못하게 할 것이다.당신의 지원은 그것을 가능하게 하는데 기여할 것이다. 그것은 지역 사회나 프로젝트가 아니라 DF를 "이롭게" 할 것이다.이는 특히 WP에서 이전에 발생한 적이 있다.ANI가 최종 낙수 처리까지 1년 반이나 걸렸던 일본, 아직 정리해야 할 오염된 기사가 남아 있다.컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 23:25, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 WP에서 무슨 일이 일어났는지 모른다.일본, 나와는 상관없는 일이야.그는 여러 번에 걸쳐 특정 주제를 편집하는 것이 금지되었으므로, 나는 그것이 그 주제 금지 중 하나라고 생각한다.나는 다른 편집자가 당신이 그가 그 블록을 돌아다니도록 도왔다고 주장하는 것을 기억한다. 그는 [38]과 같은 당신의 토크 페이지에 그가 편집하고 싶은 것들을 언급한다.그리고 블록이 끝난 후, 그는 그런 종류의 기사들을 편집하는데 더 이상 당신의 도움이 필요하지 않다고 게시했다.[39] Arbcom이 그를 페이지당 1회 되돌리기로 제한했을 때, 그는 당신에게 직접 그에게 상황을 되돌리라고 부탁했다.[40][41][42].그 세 가지 예는 꽤 명백하다.만약 네가 나를 따라다니며 그의 일을 해주기로 마음먹었다면, 나도 너와의 상호 작용 금지가 필요할 것 같아.또한 당신은 11월에 ANI에서 당신이 지금 나에게 해야 한다고 제안하는 것과 같은 것에 대해 플라이어22의 기여를 따르는 것을 그만두라는 말을 들었다.[43] 드림 포커스 00:09, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 플라이어22 사건에 대한 흥미로운 잘못된 표현이다.당신은 정말로 사람들이 당신의 문제 편집본을 보는 것을 멈추도록 하기 위해 몸을 굽히고 있다.
"당신이 그 블록을 돌아다니게 도와줬다고 주장하는 다른 편집자가 기억나."—IBAN을 사용하면 해당 사용자의 이름을 지정할 수 없다는 것을 기억한다.이것은 내가 IBAN을 깨뜨리도록 함정에 빠뜨리는 역겨운 전술이다. 그리고 IBAN이 무기화 될 것이라고 말한 기억이 난다, 안 그래, DLOHCierkim?답은 DF가 간섭 없이 이러한 종류의 편집을 계속할 수 있도록 IBAN 요청을 여러 번 승인하는 것이 될 것인가?컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 00:26, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 다시 한번 "문제 편집"을 언급하는데, 내가 누군가의 일부 변경 내용이 우스꽝스러워 보여서 그 내용을 되돌린 다음, 바로 그 직후에 토크 페이지에서 토론을 시작하여 그 내용을 논의하기 시작했다.토크:Undocumented_청년_in_the_United_States#그들_are_not_"미등록_학생들",_그들_have_ample_documents_on_them. 그는 내 뒤를 따라 나타나서 내 뒤를 돌아섰지만, 아직 아무도 토크 페이지 토론에 참여하지 않았다.왜 이 두 사람 모두 자신의 행동에 대한 핑계로 계속 이런 말을 하는 걸까?우리는 단지 내가 감히 편집을 취소하고 그 기사의 토크 페이지에서 문명화된 방식으로 사물을 논의하려고 노력함으로써 위키피디아를 파괴하는 것을 막기 위해 그들이 계속해서 나를 따라다니도록 해야 하는가?또한 나는 그가 다른 편집자의 이름을 짓도록 허락되지 않았다는 것도 몰랐고, 내가 방금 지휘했다고 주장하는 어떤 종류의 함정도 없었다.그 누구도 스스로 증거를 보기 위해 링크를 클릭하지 않기를 바라면서 주제를 바꾸고 있는 것 같다. 드림 포커스 00:34, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
"나는 그가 다른 편집자의 이름을 짓도록 허락되지 않았다는 것을 알지 못했다."—분명히 한 사람만이 이러한 주장을 한 적이 있고, 그 결과 나의 유일한 IBAN을 초래한 것은 그 ANI에서 비롯된 것이 분명하지 않다.컬리 "JFC" 터키 "고블"!00:45, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 든든한 지지.기본적으로 골든링의 말.DF는 BLPN([44])에게 명확한 BLP 문제를 적절하게 처리하는 방법을 묻는 지극히 합리적인 게시물을 만든다.그 게시물에는 전혀 문제가 없다.Hijiri88(글쎄, 추정컨대, Hijiri88)은 뚜렷한 이유 없이 (나는 돌아왔어) 부분적으로는 Dream Focus가 표절된 글을 게재함으로써 백과사전을 혼란스럽게 하지 않도록 하기 위해 (는 돌아왔어) 부분적으로는 OR과 극도로 외국인 혐오적인 횡설수설" "DF는 여전히 나를 괴롭히고 있어" (!)와 같은 구절로 이 게시물에 회신을 하기로 결심한다."트랜스포비아에 관한 상자들, 그리고 ...는 아마도 revdel 가치 있는 BLP 위반에 해당될 것"이라는 글을 올렸다. (이 은 문제의 게시물인데, 전혀 보이지 않는다.)히지리88의 파트를 갈고자 하는 도끼가 분명히 있는데, 이 유저는 이미 이번 달에 배틀그라운드 행위로 인해 하나의 상호 작용 금지를 당했고, 이 일시적 '퇴직'을 영구적인 강제 퇴직으로 바꿀 위험이 매우 큰 사용자다.우리는 이런 쓰레기는 필요 없다.피쉬+카레이트 13:43, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
    오 그리고 Bishonen - Bishi를 핑킹하는 것은 Hijiri88에서 토크 페이지 접속 블록을 제거하는 것을 고려해보시겠습니까? 그러면 Hijiri88은 그가 스스로 설정한 블록을 종료하고 싶은지 아닌지, 그리고 이 IP가 확실히 자신인지를 확인할 수 있을 겁니다.건배.피쉬+카레이트 13:48, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 강력한 지지와 WTF?그는 이 게시물을 게시하기 위해 스스로 요청한 블록[46]을 게시하기 위해 스스로 요청했던 블록을 해제할 수도 있었다.물론 이 모두는 이것이 Hijiri88이라고 가정한다(관리자가 이것을 확인할 수 없는가?).슬레이터스테븐 (대화) 13:56, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 필요한 검사 사용자 - 개인 정보 보호 정책 위반이 아닌 경우아닌 것 같아, IP가 히지리88이라고 주장하니까, 접속이 되면 이미 정보를 제공했는데, 그건 내 급여 등급 이상이야.골든링 (토크) 14:06, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 개인정보 보호정책 위반이므로 거절.--Bb23 (대화) 15:26, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 그냥 눈치채고 일주일만에 블록체험을 했는데, 너무 급해서 못 기다리겠단 말이야?슬레이터스테븐 (대화) 14:24, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • (충돌 편집)나는 Hijri88이 자발적인 블록에 있는 동안 편집하고 싶은 기사에 깃발을 꽂아 이기고자 하는 드림 포커스의 시도라고 우려하기 때문에 반대한다. 그럼에도 불구하고, 나는 위키피디아에서 잠시 떨어져 있는 누군가가 그들 자신을 적절히 옹호할 수 있는 위치에 있지 않은 상태에서 드라마 게시판에 끌려가는 것을 싫어한다. 나는 또한 히브리88이 블록 아래에 있다는 것을 게시하기 전에 다른 사용자가 이곳으로 끌려왔을 때 AN/I에서 목소리를 높이는 것이었기 때문에 이러한 상황에서 이러한 기술적 블록 회피의 단 한 사례를 간과할 준비가 되어 있다. 사이먼m223 (대화) 2019년 1월 23일 14:00 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Simonm223:DF가 시작한 BLPN 실에 Hijiri88이 자신의 블록을 피해서 이 모든게 시작된거 알아?그것은 "기술적" 블록 회피의 두 가지 사례로, 아무것도 없는 DF를 공격하는 첫 번째 사례다.골든링 (토크) 14:03, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
또한 히지리88이 글을 올리기 전의 그 BLPN 실에서 히지리88에 대한 언급은 전혀 볼 수 없다.그는 다른 사람을 공격하기 위해 거의 무작위로 나타난 것 같다.슬레이터스테븐 (대화) 14:05, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
두 개의 별개의 문제지만, 나는 여기서 그것을 시작했다[47.그러나 내가 말했듯이 IBAN은 양말의 형태가 다르다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 14:19, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
(충돌 편집)사실 나는 그것을 완전히 놓쳤다.그리고 그것은 상황을 변화시킨다.사이먼m223 (대화) 14:11, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 중립 나는 GoldenRing이 제공한 정보에 기초하여 이전의 투표를 통과했다. - 나는 여전히 iban이 어떤 것을 해결할 것이라고 생각하지 않는다. 그리고 나는 자발적인 블록에 대한 구매자의 후회를 가진 누군가에게 블록 확장을 구현하는 것은 과잉 살상이라고 생각한다. 즉, 그것은...음...정말 아무것도 아니다.눈을 굴리고 뒤로 물러나는 게 어때?그러나 만약 다른 사람들이 제공된 증거에 근거하여 다르게 본다면 나는 단지 진짜 남자라고 말하는 것 이상의 어떤 종류의 방어책도 특별히 신경쓰지 않는다. 정말?사이먼m223 (대화) 14:11, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 리:아니, 지금 정보가 필요해. 그리고 이건 조의 일이 될 수도 있어. 이 경우 히지리88에게 사과를 해야 해.-- Dlohcierkim (대화) 14:57, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 위의 IP들은 히지리 입니다. 그는 나에게 이메일을 통해 그것을 확인해주셨습니다.나는 1월 11일에 그의 요청으로 그를 차단했고, 그가 나에게 그가 User:의 조건을 가지고 승선했다고 확언한 후:비쇼넨/자체 요청 블록이 블록은 2월 2일 만료될 예정이며, 제 조건 중 하나는 "요청 차단을 해제하지 않을 것이며, 다른 어떤 관리자도 먼저 나와 상의하지 않고 차단을 해제할 것을 요청한다.(예외적인 상황이 아니라면, 나는 그것에 반대할 것이다.) .. 그러니, 정말, 진심이 아니라면 묻지 마!"다른 조건들은 내가 위키메일과 토크페이지 접속을 삭제하는 것이다.분명히 내 조건은 다른 관리자들에게 구속력이 없고, 그들이 히지리를 차단하거나 대화 페이지 접속을 복원해야 한다면 나는 그들을 영원히 혹은 그 무엇도 원망하지 않을 것이지만, 나는 여기에 내가 반대한다는 것을 기록할 것이다.나는 그에게 반대하겠다고 약속했고, 그는 나를 믿을 수 있을 것이다.지금 그는 내가 더 이상 내 총에 매달리는 것을 원하지 않는다는 것을 안다. 하지만 미래에 나에게 한 블록을 스스로 요구할 수 있는 다른 사람들의 신뢰를 망치는 작은 문제도 있다.IMO, 그는 그가 원래 받아들였던 조건을 존중해야 한다. 그리고 IP에서 게시하는 것은 정확히 그것들을 존중하는 것이 아니다.하지만 엄밀히 말하면 그것은 그의 일이지 내 일이 아니라고 생각한다.블록탈루로 규정할 것인지(확실히 의견이 있기는 하지만)는 다른 관리자들에게 맡기겠다.히지리가 물론 어느 정도 기운을 차렸다니 다행이다.다른 점이 있었습니까?비쇼넨 토크 15:14, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[답답하다]
  • FeydHuxtable에 따라 양방향 상호 작용 금지를 지원한다.이 시점에서, 양방향 상호 작용 금지는 기능적 해결책으로 이해된다.드림 포커스의 토크 페이지에 있는 관리자로부터 드림 포커스는 더 이상 차단될 위험 없이 히지리88에 대해 말할 수 없다는 언급에 따르면, 히지리88이 현재 2019년까지 계속해서 드림 포커스를 비방하는 동안, 드림 포커스가 히지리88에 대해 자신을 방어할 수 없다는 것은 본질적으로 불공평하다.WP 보유:ASPERSIONs는 그러한 주장으로부터 자신을 방어하는 동시에 재갈을 물리는 동시에 다른 사용자가 공격을 계속할 자유 재량권을 가지고 있는 동안, 전혀 옳지 않다.그러니, 양방향 상호 연결 금지로 만드세요.북미1000 15:36, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 북미1000당 지원.aldgyth - Talk 16:07, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 BLPN에 관여했지만 검토 결과 H가 스콧 켈리 페이지와 관련이 있다는 증거는 없는 것으로 보고 있다. 그래서 H가 (IP로서) 나타나 DF에 대해 불평하는 것은 교과서적인 잡음이 많고 상황을 과시하는 것 같다.Kelly 페이지, 반달 보고서, BLP/N 게시물을 처리하는 데 DF가 잘못한 것 같지는 않아 H가 자신을 금지시키려는 시도를 할 이유가 없었다. --Masem (t) 16:40, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 히지리의 간단한 해결책인 약한 지지는 단순히 스스로 요구하는 블록을 지키는 것으로는 충분치 않다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:18, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대—히지리는 경고를 받아야 하지만, 스스로 부과한 블록의 "탈법"을 커뮤니티가 부과한 것과 동일하게 취급하는 결과를 생각해 보십시오.DF는 문제가 있는 편집의 역사를 가지고 있다; 여기 최근에 내가 하지 않은 비열한 편집이 있다.DF의 난장판을 확인하고 치우는 사람이 IBAN으로 가는 걸까?
    정말로, 여기 있는 소수의 코멘터들은 히지리에 관한 한 너무 행복하다.ANI에 그의 이름이 나타날 때마다 그에 대한 제재를 위해 상습적으로 자동 투표하는 사람들에 대해 IBAN을 불러야 할까?컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 21:41, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 (그냥 좀 더 나쁘게 만드는) 양말공작에 관한 것이 아니다. 그것은 실타래와는 아무런 관련이 없는 터무니없고 노골적인 PA로 한 블록을 얻도록 다른 에드를 자극하려는 의도적인 시도다.사용자가 자신에 대해 말하는 것이 금지되어 있다는 것을 알았을 때.그가 이 일을 하기 위해 맹비난했다는 사실 또한 그 지역사회를 믿을 수 없을 정도로 무뚝뚝하고 경멸하게 만든다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 10시 30분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
Slatersteven:나는 양말이나 PA에 대해서는 언급하지 않았다.이것은 다른 사람에 대한 회신으로서 의도된 것인가?컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 10:59, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 네가 탈옥을 말하긴 했지만, 엄밀히 말하면 맞아. 그는 탈옥을 했어. 네가 PA를 무시한 게 포인트야. 여기서 보고된 게 PA이지, 탈옥이 아니야.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11:04, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
Slattersteven: 미안한데, 정말 나한테 대답하는 거야?너의 논평이 내 의견과 무슨 상관이야?컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC) 11:11, 24 (응답)
나는 네가 무시하고 있는 것을 너에게 지적하고 있다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11시 18분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
?'컬리 'JFC' 터키 '도깨비!' 2019년 1월 24일(UTC) 11시 22분 답변
  • 논평 – Hijiri88은 이전에도 특히 2018년 7월 4일(디프) 컬렌328에 의해 경고를 받은 바 있다. 컬렌은 "다음에는 드림 포커스와의 수많은 강박관념 분쟁 중 하나가 게시판에 올라오면, 아주 오랜 시간 동안 당신을 차단하겠다"고 말했다.커뮤니티는 당신의 파괴적인 행동에 완전히 진저리가 났다." 당시 컬런의 경고는 다음 사용자 토크 페이지(디프) 편집 때 알렉스 시 행정관이 추가적으로 지지했다.지금은 2019년 1월이고, 히지리88은 같은 행동(디프)으로 계속되어 왔다.북미 221000:04, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 스스로 요청된 블록을 통한 편집 지원을 하는 것은 어리석지만 주요 문제는 아니다.주요 쟁점은 이 블록 아래에서 그들이 논쟁을 벌였던 편집자에 의해 편집된 을 알아차린 후 게시판에 그들을 따라다니며 그들을 공격하는 꽤 솔직히 이상한 글을 올렸다는 것이다. 그것은 이사회 자신과는 아무런 관련이 없었다.만약 그들이 편집에서 벗어나기를 원하는 시기에 그들이 과거의 논쟁에 이만큼 집착하고 있다면, 아마도 양방향 아이밴을 시행하는 것이 그들 자신의 최선책일 것이다.에어콘 (토크) 10:33, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 질문 - 나는 여기서 다소 간과되었던 두 가지 심각한 질문이 있다고 생각한다.
    #드림 포커스 어떻게 정확히 히지리88의 은퇴를 알게 되었나?비록 그들이 그들의 토크 페이지에 은퇴 메시지를 게시한 지 몇 시간(1월 10일 10:43) 이내에 적어도 이틀 에 (1월 10. 15:49, 당신의 마지막 편집이 11월 20일이었듯이) 그것을 알고 있었다는 것은 완전히 명백하지만, 이 (1월 12일)을 참조하라.
    #히지리88 드림포커스의 편집 복귀를 정확히 어떻게 알게 되었는가.이것(1월 23일)을 참조하라, 나는 이것과 연관될 수 있는 이전의 어떤 게시물도 알지 못한다(동적 ip와 정적을 구별할 수 없다).이상적으로 나는 당신이 편집하지 않은 페이지의 편집에 대해 어떻게 알게 되었는지에 대해 설명하고 싶다.
    당신은 내가 그 단어에 정확히 밑줄을 그었다는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다. 정확히 "특이하게" 읽혀져야 한다.이 단계에서 나는 사실의 시간표에만 관심이 있다.답변이 없거나 부족한 답변은 어떻게 해야 하는지에 대한 나의 판단을 알려줄 것이다.한 가지 더 표현해야 할 게 있는데 답변을 기다리고 있을 거야.미스터 rndude (대화) 12:16, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
    그가 잠시 자리를 비웠다는 두 명의 다른 사람들로부터 이메일을 받았다.내가 위키피디아를 떠났을 때 나는 누군가가 여기저기서 나에게 말하는 것을 멈추기를 거부했을 때 불평하지 않는 것이 잘못되었다고 동의한 사람들로부터 그것보다 더 많은 이메일을 받았다.이 일을 시작한 그의 최근 소란을 보면 그가 갑자기 나에게 온갖 종류의 허튼소리를 하는 것을 알 수 있다.그가 나나 다른 사람들에게 이런 짓을 한 것은 확실히 이번이 처음은 아니다.그저 주제를 바꿔 놓고 오랫동안 아무 상관없는 무작위적인 것에 대한 논쟁을 끌어낼 수 없을 때, 그는 미안한 척하고 다시는 그러지 않을 것이다.그가 이것을 멈추게 하려면 양방향 상호 작용 금지가 필요하다. 다른 방법이 없기 때문이다. 드림 포커스 14:59, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
    @Dream Focus:투명한 지붕을 가진 집 안에 있는 사람들은 바위로 무엇을 하는지 아주 조심해야 한다.몇몇 사람들은 여기서 히지리88이 나쁘게 행동했지만, 당신은 스스로 성자가 되지 않았고 그의 나쁜 행동은 당신을 용서하지 않는다고 말했다.그만해.하느님의 사랑을 위해, 제발, 그만둬.골든링 (토크) 15:17, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
    봐, 이렇게 되는 거야.Rndude씨는 ANI에서 Hijiri88에 대해 DF에게 그 문제에 대해 질문하고, 만약 DF가 대답하면, 그들은 더 많은 벌을 받는다.나는 DF에게 Hijiri88에 대한 질문이 이번 포럼에서 그들에게 불리하게 열릴 것이라면 더 이상 여기에 대한 질문에 대답하지 말 것을 권고한다.북미 151000:25, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
    그렇군. 정말 죄송하지만, 여기서 그의 질문은 터무니없소.이 두 편집자 사이에 IBAN을 부과하는 것처럼 보이는 토론 중에, 그는 그들에게 서로에 대해 의견을 말해달라고 요청한다.나는 어느 편집자도 다른 편집자에 대해 더 이상 논평해서는 안 된다는 북미의 의견에 동의한다.우리는 우리가 필요한 모든 증거를 가지고 있다.고마워 — 아마쿠루 (토크) 15:32, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 동의하지 않는다. 여기서 쟁점들 중 하나는 어떻게 그들이 둘 다 재시도했을 때 다른 사람이 무엇을 하고 있는지 아는 것처럼 보였는가 하는 것이다.스토킹(예를 들어) 의혹이 해소되기를 바라는 것은 지극히 타당하다.게다가 당신은 "버터러블의 초대를 받아서 여기에 왔다"고 말할 수 있지만, "그런데 헤리크럼은 여기에 잘못이 있다"고 덧붙이지 않아도 된다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:50, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
@North America1000: 꺼져.DF의 회답의 처음 두 문장은 충분했고 논평 없이 통과되었을 것이다.나머지는 같은 쓰레기를 뒤지고 있다. 그리고 그들은 돌아와서 "모든 사람들이 여기서 패턴을 보기를 희망한다"라는 편집 요약을 더 삽입할 필요가 있다고 느꼈다.그래, 패턴은 보이나 DF가 말한 건지는 잘 모르겠어.골든링 (토크) 16:03, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
DF에게는 승산이 없는 상황.대답하지 말고, 벌을 받을 위험을 감수하라.대답하고 나서 벌을 받는다.북미 161000:24, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 아니면, 그 질문에 대답하고 그 문제에 맡기고 이기는 거야.골든링 (토크) 16:29, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 DF가 그 질문에 대답하지 않았다면, 당신은 불평할 것이 없었을 겁니다. 그들이 그 질문에 대답하지 않았다는 것 말고는요.진짜 캐치-22야.하지만 나는 주제에서 벗어났군.북미 171000:09, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • GoldenRing, Fish&K 등 지원.IP 편집이 진행 중인 상황에서, 그들은 운이 좋은 스타들에게 감사해야 한다. 그것은 대신 변명의 블록이 아니다.러그넛 13:38, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • IBAN을 지원하십시오.또한 이것이 긴 블록을 피할 수 있는 마지막 기회라는 것을 다시 한번 강조하라.히지리의 귀중한 콘텐츠 기여를 우리가 잃어버리는 것은 바라지 않지만, 그들이 아무리 개선을 약속해도, 언제나 같은 행동을 더 많이 해서(때로는 바로 같은 자리에서) 따라오는 것 같다.히지리, 당신의 토크 페이지에서 피쉬 앤 가라테의 조언을 받아라.정말 기내에 가지고 가십시오.그것은 요약 편집에 있어서 더 이상 사람들을 공격하지 않고, 더 이상 호킹에 대한 비난도 하지 않으며, 단지 당신이 친해지지 않는 사람들의 페이지를 멀리하는 것을 의미한다.다른 사람이 너희에게 미개하면, 그것은 다른 사람이 알게 될 것이니, 그들과 함께하지 않고 자기 무덤을 파게 하라.고마워 — 아마쿠루 (토크) 14:34, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지 - 그렇지 않으면 헹구고, 몇 주/개월 후에 반복하십시오.자우어백dude?/dude.15:31, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

코멘트 그들이 어떻게 안 했을까?서브텍스트에 들어가 있어.--Dlohcierkim (talk) 16:11, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

컬렌의 웅변과 질문

내가 이 특정한 문제에 대해 논평하기 전에, 나는 유용한 백과사전 기사를 쓰고, 공공 기물 파괴와 싸우고, AfD에서 침착하게 기사를 평가하고, 헬프 데스크와 찻집에서 도움을 주는 수천 명의 생산적인 편집자들에게 쿠도를 주고 싶다. 이런 기괴한 강박관념에 얽매이지 않고 말이다.편집자들은 매우 오랫동안 해 왔다.ANI에서 도움을 주는 사람들은 그들의 사용자 이름에 훨씬 덜 친숙하다. 왜냐하면 그들은 어떤 식으로든 방해받지 않기 때문이다.그래, 북미1000, 나는 경고를 했고 알렉스 시는 내 경고를 승인했다.나는 BLPN에서 히지리88의 (IP로 편집) 논평은 기괴하고 파괴적이며 네다섯 가지 이유로 받아들일 수 없는 것이라고 생각한다.여기서 논의된 드림포커스의 행동도 상당히 골치 아픈 일이며 여기서 말하는 어떤 것도 드림포커스를 격앙시키는 것으로 해석되어서는 안 된다는 것을 강조하고 싶다.나는 다른 관리자가 그 편집자에게 적합한 것을 평가하고 결정하기를 바란다.히지리88에 대해서는, 2018년 7월에 나의 경고에 따라 긴 블록을 부과하는 것이 나의 즉각적인 성향이다.하지만 스스로 정한 블록 위에 있기 때문에 서두를 필요가 없다.그래서 우선 차단하는 비쇼넨 행정관으로부터, 그리고 어느 행정관이나 다른 편집자로부터도 사려 깊은 의견을 구한다.신중하게 생각하고 긍정적으로 생각하도록 노력해라.Hijiri88의 이상할 정도로 부적절한 BLPN 글을 읽고 그 문제를 다시 생각해보십시오.내가 히지리88의 블록을 연장하지 말아야 할 이유가 있을까?나는 연기하기 전에 24시간을 기다릴 거야.컬런328 2019년 1월 24일 03:53 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]

  • 당신의 질문이 수사적인 것이 아니라면, 나는 대답하고 싶다.그 모든 것에 대해 네가 정말 옳다.점점 메스꺼움과 놀라움으로 이를 지켜보던 나는 "아니, 히지리88의 블록을 연장하지 않을 이유가 없다"고 말할 수 있다.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 04:30, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 와우, 그 BLPN 포스트는... 와우.그것은 특별해요.안 될 이유가 전혀 생각나지 않는다.--조름 (대화) 06:42, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]

히지리88은 나에게 다음과 같이 글을 올려달라고 부탁했다.

나는 우연히 나의 대화와 이메일 접속을 삭제해 달라고 요청했고(나는 비시, 당신과 몇몇 다른 사람들에게 이 사실을 알려왔다), 삭제된 대화들로 인해 나는 카페에 가지 않고 IP로 게시하지 않고 내가 부재중 괴롭힘을 당하고 있다는 사실을 해결할 방법이 없었고, 여전히 "차단 회피"라고 말했다.
내가 당신에게 (그리고 비쇼넨, 그리고 알렉스 시) 내 블록의 조건은 내게는 놀라운 일이었고, 단지 블록을 기다리는 것이 단순히 블록 회피에 대한 제재라면 기꺼이 그렇게 할 것이라고 말해도 될까?

히지리88이 BLPN에서 호킹에 대해 언급한 것은 이 발언을 가리킨다.그가 거기에 응한 것이 현명했는지, 나는 공동체에 맡겨 결정하겠지만, 이 논의의 일부에서 제시된 바와 같이 이유 없는 것이거나 '갑자기'가 아니었다.컬리 "JFC" 터키 "고블! 06:19, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

아니, 컬리, 그건 틀렸어.Hijiri88의 BLP 게시물 중 Dream의 소위 '호킹'을 언급하는 유일한 부분은 다음과 같다: '...또한 DF는 여전히 나를 괴롭히고 있다; 그가 그의 토크 페이지에 나를 향한 악랄한 인신공격에 대해 게시한 것은 아주 명백한 명백한 사실이었다.' 분명히 당신이 방금 연결한 무해한 확산은 "악성적인 인신공격"이라고 말하지 않았다.H는 이 양말 기둥을 가리키고 있었다.네 아들은 원래 그 게시물이 아마도 과거 갈등을 겪었던 십여 명의 편집자나 적어도 한 명의 금지된 편집자에 의해 만들어졌을 수도 있다고 제안했다.나중에야 H는 Dream을 골랐다.불가능에 가까운 이유를 설명할 필요도 없이, Dream은 실제로 양말 포스트의 저자였다. H가 그가 반목하고 있는 사람들에 관해서는 정확히 공평하지 않다는 것을 지역사회가 알고 있는 것은 분명하다.
@Cullen - H에게 긴 블록을 주지 않는 이유는 2방향 iban만으로도 교란을 멈추기에 충분할 수 있기 때문일 것이다.그래야 H의 훌륭한 건축공사의 기사로 이득을 볼 수 있는 기회가 생긴다.H는 또한 그가 반목해 온 사람들과는 관련이 없는 한 토론에 좋고 사려 깊은 의견을 내는 것 같다.그렇긴 하지만, 만약 당신이 연장을 결정한다면 나는 당신이 가장 잘 알고 있다고 믿는다.FeydHuxtable (talk) 07:27, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
DF의 논평은 "무해"가 아니었으며, 반응을 일으키기 위해 분명히 한 것이었다.컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 09:37, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
@Curly Turkey: 당신의 의견을 설명해 주시겠습니까?나는 그 논평이 어떻게 해롭지 않았는지 이해할 수 없고, 어떻게 그 논평이 반응을 일으키는지 이해할 수 없으며, 그것이 내게 해롭지 않아 보였다는 사실이 내가 상호 작용 금지 제안을 지지한 이유다.만약 그것이 해롭지 않다면 이것에 대한 나의 의견은 바뀔 것이다.고마워요.Fish+Karate 10:17, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
피시가라테: 사용자별 대화:드림 포커스#2018년 6월, 사용자 대화:드림 포커스#2018년 7월, 몇몇 ANIs 등 드림 포커스는 히지리를 언급하지 말고 방향을 분명히 하라는 경고를 몇 번이고 받았다.컬렌의 인용문: "그들은 존재하지 않는 것처럼 무시하라"; "다음번 히지리88과의 수많은 강박관념 분쟁 중 하나가 게시판에서 폭발할 때, 나는 아주 오랜 시간 동안 너를 차단할 것이다."리치333의 인용구: "위키피아의 어느 곳에서도 히지리88에 대해 이야기하거나 말하지 말라"; "H88을 어떤 형태나 형태로든 언급한다면 다음 블록은 무기한일 것이다."Zebedee는 Boing의 말을 인용, "Hijiri88에 대해 완전히 입을 다물고 이 제재가 시행되는 동안 이들에 대해 다른 말을 하지 말아야 한다"고 말했다.한 마디도 하지 마! 어디에도!"
DF는 잠시 사라진다. 그리고 히지르가 은퇴하자마자 DF는 돌아와 그가 결코 이야기해서는 안 될 사람이 은퇴했다고 즉시 세상에 선언하여 이제 그는 "안전하게" 편집하게 되었다. 그리고 그렇게 하지 말라는 여러 번의 경고에도 불구하고 ANI를 처음으로 열게 된다.컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 10:43, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
@Curly Turkey:고마워, 그래서 네가 DF의 코멘트를 언급할 때 너는 BLPN에 대한 그의 악의 없는 코멘트(Hijiri88로부터 로그아웃된 응답을 받은 코멘트)를 언급하는 것이 아니었어.나는 드림 포커스가 히지리88을 언급해서는 안 된다는 것에 전적으로 동의한다. 히지리88은 그가 돌아오자마자 분명히 한 것이다. 이것이 바로 IBAN이 양방향이어야 하는 이유다.Fish+Karate 10:50, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
피쉬 가라데: 만약 그가 이미 상호작용을 금지했다면, IBAN은 어떻게 그 문제를 해결할까?그에게 주어진 모든 "마지막 기회"에도 불구하고, 그는 이미 이번 달에 두 번이나 그것을 깨뜨렸다. 히지리 아 프로포즈 리엔에 대해 말하고, 또 다른 ANI를 시작했다.컬리 "JFC" 터키"고블! 11시 7분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 공식적으로 "금지"된 것이 아니라 지난 6월 히지리88에 대해 그만 얘기하라는 지시를 받았다.그래, DF의 토크 페이지에서 DF의 모든 헛소리들을 읽었는데, DF의 토크 페이지에서도 DF가 이 일을 그냥 넘길 수 없다는 것을 보여주고 있어.이것을 상호작용 금지로 공식화하면 모든 회색 영역이 제거되고, "어떤 사람"이나 "다른 편집자"에 대한 비스듬한 언급으로 가장자리에서 위키백과나 춤을 추지 않으며, 어떤 위반에 대해서도 즉시 차단할 수 있다.Fish+Karate 14:09, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 거울이 그의 은퇴 통지에 괴롭힘을 당하는 것에 대한 자신의 의견을 지적하고 싶다.그래서 만약 이것이 우렁찬 것이라면 그것은 그랬다.은퇴한 ED가 여전히 사용자들의 대화 페이지를 보고 있다는 것도 이상하고 불안하다.또한 이 댓글이 문제였는데, 왜 BPLN에 올렸는지(그것은 배치되지 않은 곳, 그것이 목적이 아닌지를) 관리자에게 보고하거나 DF의 토크 페이지에 댓글을 달지 않았는가?그것은 고의적인 혼란과 도발이었다(그리고 DF의 글이 있었다고 해도 그것은 다른 모든 사람들이 무시할 수 있는 그의 토크 페이지에 있었다).슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 10:41, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 적어도 그 블록이 다른 제재를 회피할 수 있는 효과가 없었던 곳에서, 위에서 제시된 바와 같이, 스스로 요구하는 블록을 회피하는 것에 대해 제재에 반대한다.사람들은 생각을 바꾼다.나는 비쇼넨이 자기 요구 블록을 수정하지 않고 그것을 전적으로 지지하지 않는 이유를 이해한다. 하지만 그것은 편집자에 대한 그녀의 책임에 관한 것이지 지역사회에 대한 편집자의 책임에 관한 것이 아니다.하지만, 당신이 묘사하는 정확한 이유 때문에 히지리88을 차단해서는 안 된다는 생각을 할 수 있는 유일한 이유는 IBAN이 그 혼란을 잠재우기에 충분한지 알아보기 위해서입니다.나는 이것을 50대 50 통화로 본다. 한 달 동안 같은 편집자에게 커뮤니티 IBAN을 부과하는 것은 이번이 두 번째다. 그리고 그들이 위키리스크에 있는 동안에도 말이다.IBANs에 관한 한 히지리88이 로데오에서 처음 보는 것도 이번이 처음이 아니다. 위의 제재가 (현재 모든 징후를 보여주는) 합의를 얻는다고 가정할 때 히지리88은 캣플랩08, 존 카터, 다크나이트2149, 드림 포커스와 함께 IBAN을 갖게 될 것이다. 이 모든 것은 별개의 상황에서 비롯된다.나는 과거에 IBAN이 만료되었는지 해제되었는지 알아내려고 애쓰지 않았다.얼마나 많은 IBAN을 부과해야 충분하다고 말할 수 있는가?반면에, 그는 좋은 기사 작업을 하고 있고 그것을 잃는 것은 수치스러운 일이 될 수 있기 때문에 아마도 IBAN에게 기회가 주어져야 할 것이다.골든링 (토크) 10:36, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 그의 이전 IBANS가 그의 태도를 누그러뜨렸다는 증거가 없다면(그리고 DF가 그의 토크 페이지에서 그의 사건을 돕지는 않았지만 실제로 이것은 다른 EDD를 괴롭히기 위해 IBAN을 이용하려는 시도처럼 보인다) 절반은 동의한다.그래서 나는 두 가지 마음 속에 있다.만약 내가 이것이 효과가 없을 것이라고 생각한다면 (오, 이 드라마를 멈출 수도 있지만, 다음 사용자들이 위키백과를 시도하기로 결심하는 것은 아니다, 그리고 그렇다, 내가 생각하는 바로 그것이다), 하지만 당신(그리고 나는 다른 사람들이 의심한다)은 그럴 수도 있다고 생각하고, 당신은 내가 하는 것보다 그를 더 잘 알고 있다.그래서 나는 이것에 대해 중립적이지만, 만약 이것이 효과가 없다면, 그 관점을 바꿔야 할 것이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 10:47, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 히지리의 비난이 앞에서 언급한 IP 공격에 의해 도발되었다고 믿는 것은, 논리적으로, DF에서 나오는 것 같았다고 믿는 것은 불합리하다고 생각하지 않는다.장난삼아 이런 허황된 작전을 저지르는 양말들이 있다는 건 알지만, 히지리가 그렇게 격분했다고 비난할 수는 없을 겁니다.특히 DF에 의해 만들어진 논란의 여지가 있는 편집의 맥락에서; 나는 그것을 노골적인 인종차별주의로 간주할 많은 사람들을 알고 있다.나도 알아, 히지리는 가끔 너무 많은 드라마에 휘말리기도 하지만, 나는 정말로 상황이 네가 그렇게까지 만들어 내는 것만큼 심각하다고 생각하지 않아, 그리고 히지리에 대한 그런 강박적이고 일방적인 제재는 무겁게 느껴지는 것 같아.히지리는 너무 많은 드라마에 관여하고, 때로는 지나칠 때도 있고, 때로는 완전히 틀릴 때도 있다.만약 또 다른 IBAN이 필요하다면 그렇게 하십시오.하지만, 나는 그가 순 긍정적이고, 이 사건에 대해 한 방도 찬성하지 않을 것이라고 믿는다.그러한 제안은 너무 공격적이고, 히지리가 이 프로젝트에 긍정적인 기여를 한 것에 대해 사려 깊지 못한 것으로 보인다.그리고, 이런 점을 지적할 필요가 있다니 믿을 수 없지만, 자기 차단은 예방 차단과 다르며, 구속력이 없거나 강제력이 없다.나는 그것이 상식이라고 생각하겠지만 분명히 그렇지 않다.비록 행정관이 이념적으로 다르게 되기를 원한다고 해도 말이다. ~~스왑~~ {talk} 10:43, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
@Swarm: 히지리88은 그들이 도발당하고 있다고 느꼈지만, 화가 났을 때, 당신은 그것을 무시하거나, 현물로 대응하거나, 관련이 없는 게시판의 토론을 찾아 그것을 납치하여 다수의 인신 공격을 할 수 있는 선택권을 갖게 된다.우리는 DF의 TP에 IP 포스팅이 어떤 임의의 편집자인지 DF인지 알 수 없을 것 같다; 타임라인을 보면 DF가 아닌 것 같다.우리가 알고 있는 것은 히지리88이 이에 대응하여 핵 옵션을 선택했다는 것이다.나는 단지 그것을 일부러 상황을 악화시키는 것 말고 다른 것으로 보기 위해 정말 애쓴다.설사 DF의 TP에 대한 언급이 어떤 종류의 위반이고 거기에 IP 게시물이 있다는 것을 인정한다고 해도, 그리고 히지리88이 그것을 그냥 놔두기보다는 그것에 대해 뭔가 조치를 취해야 했다는 것을 인정한다고 해도, 히지리88은 어떤 분쟁 해결책이 자신에게 열려 있는지, 그가 무엇을 했는지는 그가 알고 있어야 할 만큼 충분히 오랫동안 여기에 있었다.이온 그러나 분쟁의 확대.골든링 (토크) 11:21, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 히지리에 대한 그러한 강권자, 일방적 제재가 무거운 것처럼 보인다는 슈람의 발언은 히지리에 대한 블록의 추가 연장을 고려한다는 점에서 현물이라고 생각한다.이 대화가 보여주는 한 가지가 있다면, 스스로 요구하는 블록을 어떻게 다룰 것인가에 대한 심각한 의견차이가 있는 것이지, 편집자에 대한 벌칙을 도입하는 것이 아니라 정책 토론을 통해 해결할 수 있는 방법에 대한 의견차이가 있다는 것이다.나는 또한 '블록 회피'라고 여겨지는 이 문제가 두 편집자의 서로를 향한 행태인 이곳의 핵심 관심사로부터 주의를 산만하게 하는 부차적인 문제라는 점도 걱정스럽다.나는 아직도 여기서의 전반적인 교류의 역사는 DF가 히지리보다 더 문제라는 것을 암시하고 있다는 이전의 진술을 고수하고 있다. 비록 최근의 학설이 그를 사람들의 마음에 더 들게 하는 것처럼 보이지만, 그들의 교류의 문제는 누군가가 블록 에바시에 관여하고 있다고 간주될 수 있는가에 대한 부수적인 문제로 인해 모호해져서는 안 된다.자급자족하는 곳에그랜드팔라마 (대화) 16:07, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
히지리88의 블록을 연장하는 것에 대한 공감대가 없기 때문에, 나는 그렇게 하지 않을 것이다.대신에, 나는 쌍방향 상호 작용 금지를 지지한다.컬렌328 05:38, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]

비쇼넨의 웅변은 없다.

미안 컬렌328, 나는 드림 포커스 / 히지리 일에 말려드는 것을 상당히 꺼려한다. 의견을 형성할 만큼 그것에 대해 읽어낼 시간이 없고, 또한 이 "자기 요구 블록"이 판을 치는 방식에 화가 난다.그런 종류의 블록을 제공하는 내 페이지를 삭제해야 할까 봐.그러니 내 사려 깊은 조언은 하지 마, 미안해.하지만, 내가 hijiri의 tpa를 복구했기 때문에, 이메일 상의 후, 당신은 이제 그의 페이지에서 hijiri의 입력의 혜택을 받을 수 있을 것이다.비쇼넨톡 10:06, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[답답하다]

  • 몇몇 명칭을 고치는 것이 도움이 될 수 있다.블록이었다면, 그렇다면 차단 회피 제재가 적용돼야 한다.그것이 블록이 아니라 오히려 비쇼넨의 발명적 속임수였다면, 그 이름을 이렇게 지어야 하고, 좀 더 정밀한 제법 규칙이지만, 사실은 공개되어서는 안 된다.Pldx1 (대화) 11:36, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 사용자:비쇼넨/자체 요청 블록위키홀릭스가 빙빙 도는 것을 막을 수 있는 스크립트가 등장하면서 스스로 요구하는 블록이 더 이상 사용되지 않게 되었다고 생각했다.아마도 지금은 더 이상 사용되지 않을 것이다.-- DLOhcierkim (talk) 11:43, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 비쇼넨의 속임수?창의력이요?뭐, 뭐?그건 빌어먹을 블록이었다.그렇지 않다면 무슨 소용이 있겠는가?나만이 스스로 요청한 블록을 배치하는 관리자도 아니고, 내가 그 관행을 고안한 것도 아니다.카테고리 비교:자진해서 요청된 블록을 배치할 의향이 있는 위키백과 관리자. (불행히도 DLOhc가 언급한 스크립트를 무시하는 데는 적어도 내가 알고 있는 대본은 아니므로 그다지 유용하지 않다.)비쇼넨탈크 11시 50분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[답답하다]
어쩌면 그렇게 무시하기 쉽고, edds가 그냥 무시만 할 수 있다면(그리고 실제로 그것을 이용하는 사람들(dds, 관리자가 아닌)은 대부분 edds에 의해 이해되거나 심각하게 받아들여지지 않는 것 같지도 않은 연습을 그만둘 때가 된 것 같다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11:53, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그녀는 이 특별한 호의에 대해 유감을 표했다.나는 대부분의 경우 잘 된다고 생각한다.나는 이것이 이 두 사람에게 상호 IBAN이 얼마나 중요한지를 보여주는 예라고 생각한다.강박관념은 그리 강한 단어가 아니다.-- Dlohcierkim (talk) 12:04, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 대본이 유행했던 때를 기억한다.우린 더 이상 자기소개 블록을 설치하지 않기로...The. New.제기랄!--- Dlohcierkim (대화) 12시 9분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
지역사회가 어느 시점에서 자기 블록을 부정하려고 했는지 모르겠지만, WP의 본문은 다음과 같다.셀프블록은 수년 동안 그대로였고, 정책상 금지되거나 심지어 낙담하지도 않았다.이러한 상황에서 사용자들은 개인적인 이유로 블록을 도구로 사용하고 있다.그들은 그 이상의 목적을 위해 일하지 않는다.그들은 WP를 만족시키지 못한다.예방적, 그리고 그들은 의도된 것이 아니다.아무것도 막지 않는 블록을 강제할 수 없고, 사용자가 그런 블록에 대해 마음을 바꾸는데 애를 먹을 이유가 없다.그들의 조건의 일부로서 그것을 번복하지 않을 관리자와 셀프 블록 거래를 한다면, 그것은 당신에게 안쓰럽다.하지만 IP로 편집하기로 결정하면 처벌받을 수 없다.이 모든 것은 당면한 문제들에 대한 주의를 산만하게 하는 것이다. ~~~스왑~~ {토크} 22:11, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
하지만 그것이 내가 그들이 "하지만 그는 지금 자기 자신을 차단하고 있어, 행동할 필요가 없다"는 것을 여러 번 봐왔다는 것을 제외하면 말이다.나는 이것이 그들이 아닌 것이 조치를 취하지 않을 핑계라고 생각한다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11시 9분, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
또한 펠덱스는 히지리를 혼자 내버려 두라는 요구와 경고를 동시에 받았으며, 그가 왜 여기서 아무런 영향도 받지 않고 지낼 수 없는지는 확실하지 않다. ~~스왑~~ {talk} 22:14, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 친애하는 사용자:군집. 내 말은 특정 사용자에 대한 것이 아니라 예방책 대신 게 창의적인 속임수로 나타나는 것에 대한 것이었다.이런 창의적인 수법이 깨지고 여기서 깨지면 대다수의 사람들이 어떤 제재도 취할 필요가 없다는 의견을 갖고 있다.당신이 그 문제에 대한 내 개인적인 의견에 대해 의구심을 갖고 있는 것 같기 때문에, 나 또한 그러한 창의적인 속임수를 어겨서는 어떤 제재도 받아서는 안 된다는 이 의견을 가지고 있다고 기쁘게 말한다.그러므로 그것을 블록이라고 부르는 것은 오해의 소지가 있을 뿐이다.이것은 그 문제에 대한 내 의견의 두 번째 부분이다.Pldx1 (대화) 13:22, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 링크에 접속해서셀프블록에서 계속 읽었어내가 직접 만들까 생각중이야..- DLOhcierkim (대화) 23:11, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
지금쯤 플덱스의 도끼는 꽤 날카로워 보인다. -- DLOhcierkim (대화) 23:13, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
"셀프 블록" 섹션의 창조는 2007년 3월에 대본에 대해 이야기한다. 그래서 그전에도 그랬을 것이다.그리고 그 이후로 변하지 않았다.그전까지는 정책이 없었던 것 같다.-- DLOhcierkim (talk) 23:35, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

WP:사용자에 의한 NOTHERE 편집:샤한샤5

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

샤한샤5 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

  • "이란의 역사"에 대한 링크를 이슬람 역사 페이지에서 삭제하고 WP:유명한 이란학자(Alireza Shapour Shahbazi)가 작성한 RS reference.[48]
  • 토크에서 "아제르바이잔 공포증"의 다른 편집자들을 고발했다.바흐만다르.[49]
  • 브릴 출판사를 "신뢰할 수 없는 출판사"로 지정하려고 했다(브릴 소식통이 그의 의제를 중단시키고 있었기 때문이다).[50]
  • 기사에서는 글자 그대로 출처였음에도 불구하고, 사산 가의 페르시아어 기원에 대해 이의를 제기하고 제거하려고 했다.[51]-[52]
  • 페르시아의 역사적인 인물인 바흐만다르를 "아제르바이잔니"로 표기하려 했다.편집 요약 없음/설명 없음.비RS 소스 추가, 페이지 번호 없음[53]
  • 페르시아의 역사적인 작가인 이스칸데르 베그 문시를 아제르바이잔인으로 낙인찍으려 했다.편집 요약 없음/설명 없음.비RS 소스 추가, 페이지 번호 없음[54]
  • 카프카스 카나테스의 출처에서 이것이 WP:NPOV가 아니라는 것을 분명히 밝히고 있음에도 불구하고 바쿠 칸테를 아제르바이잔의 실체[55]로 표기하려 했다.나는 심지어 그에게 수많은 비밀에 대해 이렇게 말했다.[56]-[57]
  • '이란'에서 쉬르반샤를 빼고 '동유럽'에 추가했다.[58]
  • 안티오키아 기사에 시대착오적인 횡설수설까지 더했다.[59]
  • 추가 WP:IDHT.[60]

나는 그에게 WP를 발행했다.몇 주 전 AA2 경고는 소용이 없었다.설득력 있는 증거를 보면, 이 편집자가 이 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니라고 해도 무방하다. - 루이 아라곤 (토크) 23:40, 2019년 1월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]

  • 논평 : 보고된 사용자는 여기 아제르바이잔어 어젠다와 영어 위키백과, 그리고 또한 일부 WP:CIR은 영어를 제대로 읽고 이해할 수 없기 때문에 발행된다. [61], [62] 등 ...은 WP의 전형적인 경우처럼 들린다.NOTHERE.---Wikaviani 00:47, 2019년 1월 6일(UTC)[응답]
12월 내 토크 페이지에도 이 편집기의 문제가 보고되었다: 사용자 토크:에드존스턴/아카이브 46#또 다른 우려.만약 WP:CIR이 평결이라면 전통적인 블록이 고려될 수 있다.한편, POV 푸싱이 더 큰 문제인 것으로 판명될 경우, WP로부터의 주제 금지:AA2는 선택사항이 될 수 있다.사용자는 1월 6일에 이 토론을 통지받고 포인트별 답변을 하였다.불행히도 그의 모든 진술은 상호선형 편집을 좋아하지 않는 다른 편집자에 의해 삭제되었다.샤한샤하5에게 더 메모를 남길게.에드존스턴 (대화) 04:02, 2019년 1월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
("다른 문제" 스레드가 User_talk에 보관됨:EdJohnston/Archive_46#Another_concern.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 19:13, 2019년 1월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
@EdJohnston: IMO, 그리고 보고된 사용자들에 대한 모든 존경과 함께, 나는 그가 WP를 가지고 있다고 생각한다.CIR은 POV-퍼셔를 발행한다.포인트 바이 포인트 답에서 그랬던 것처럼 경험이 부족해서 일부 기사에 '아제르바이잔니'를 추가하려 했다는 말은 선의의 답변으로 들리지 않는다.건배.---위카비아니 23:32, 2019년 1월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
이 댓글은 다시 한 번 영어 불능과 격전지적 사고방식을 보여준다.---위카비아니 11:20, 2019년 1월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
@EdJohnston: 관리자로서, 어떤 편집이 나를 차단하는 이유가 될 수 있는지 말해 주시겠습니까?샤한샤하5 (대화) 08:41, 2019년 1월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
@Wikaviani:, 나는 이미 내 토크 페이지에 온라인 영어 자격증을 소개했지만, 너를 위해 나는 여기에 그것을 추가할 수 있다[1].샤한샤하5 (대화) 08:43, 2019년 1월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 코멘트 솔직히, 나는 샤한샤하5가 WP를 격투 비디오 게임처럼 보는 것 같다. 예를 들어 일부 사용자들은 그의 편집 내용을 되돌리고 거부하지만 그는 반드시 이겨야 한다고 믿는다.그래서 그는 그의 문제 있는 편집을 계속하기로 결심하거나 특정한 주제들을 목표로 삼는다.비록 우리가 그의 편집 내용을 선의의 것으로 간주하더라도 무시할 수 없는 몇 가지 심각한 문제들이 있다.WP 가이드라인 및 기타 편집자의 코멘트를 무시한 영어 구사능력, 협업에 대한 관심 부족, 명백한 국수주의/비판주의/시대착오적 POV.그래서 그에게 두 번째 기회를 준다면 그런 문제들을 해결할 수 있을 거라고 생각하니?그에 관한 모든 것은 이 사건이 WP:여기는 아니다.그러나 그가 행동을 바꾸겠다고 약속한다면 나는 최종 경고나 6개월 차단을 지지한다. --Wario-Man (대화) 08:45, 2019년 1월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
또한 그는 자신의 계좌에 신경 쓰지 않는 것 같다.2019-01-06[63]에 부적절한 회신을 취하하고 다시 쓰거나 제대로 된 회신을 쓰려 하지 않았다.진짜 이게 뭐야?![64] --Wario-Man (대화) 10:20, 2019년 1월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 질문 만약 그가 포인트 바이 포인트 반론을 했다면 그것을 보는 것이 도움이 될 것이다.내가 놓친 링크 있어?여기에 복사할 수 있는가?19:08, 2019년 1월 10일 (UTC)
부탁한 링크 여기 있어.---위카비아니 07:57, 2019년 1월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
@Wario-Man:, 나는 (역사적 주제를 편집하는) 모든 위키 사용자와의 협업에 관심이 있다. 왜냐하면 나는 종종 대화 페이지에서 일부 편집과 향후 편집에 대해 논의하려고 하기 때문이다. 여기 몇 가지 예가 있다: [1] 2, [2], [3].나는 또한 당신이 국수주의/비판주의자를 말함으로써 당신이 의미하는 편집의 의미를 구체화해야 한다는 것을 덧붙이고 싶다.

제27장

  • 이란 정체성에 삽입된 링크는 말도 안 되는 소리였지만, 만약 그것이 헛소리가 아니라면, 유저는 다음과 같이 말한다.루이스 아라곤은 링크를 복구할 수 있었다.그러나 그는, 아마도 언젠가 나에게 불리하게 사용하기 위해 그것을 사용하지 않았을 것이다 :) 내가 편집 요약[1]에 이미 썼듯이, 내가 삭제한 출처에는 이란 정체성이 언급되어 있지 않기 때문에, 나는 그것을 삭제했다.만약 나의 이러한 편집이 위키 정책에 있지 않다면, 내가 차단된 것을 보고 싶어하는 친이란 동료들에 의해 나를 증명해야 한다.
  • 나는 바흐만다르 토크 페이지에서 누구를 고발한 적은 없지만, 현대 아제르바이잔의 이데올로기가 역사적 인물의 토크인 페이지에서 논쟁으로 이용되고 있는 동료의 메시지에 아제르바이잔 공포증이 눈에 띄었다.@LouisAragon:, 여기서 몇 가지 회상해 봅시다.

"비RS 허튼소리.이들은 이란과 아르메니아를 '근교한 투르크 땅'이라고 주장하는 같은 '역사학자'들이며, 더벤트부터 우르미아, 잔잔, 카르스 등에 이르기까지 모든 것이 '고대 때부터' 존재했던 '뷔테프 아즈르베이칸'의 일부라고 주장한다.서구의 역사학자를 존중하는 어떤 자아도 이러한 "책"을 심각하게 받아들이지 않는다.아제르바이잔어(SSR and post 1991)와 차리스트/소비에트 러시아 소식통들은 서구 유수의 학자들이 반박/비판한 의제들로 대부분 꽉 차 있다.여기 예가 있어요.[3] 소비에트 시대의 많은 아르메니아인과 그루지야 출신도 마찬가지다.그들은 모두 피해야 한다."

나는 그와 같은 방법으로 그에게 대답을 해 주었는데, 이제 나와 백과사전에게는 그럴 필요가 없다고 생각한다.하지만 난 괜찮다고 생각해, 왜냐하면 그 당시 나는 경험이 없었기 때문이야.

  • 나는 왜 @LouisAragon: 내가 Brilli를 신뢰할 수 없는 높은 출처가 아니라고 말한 반면 나는 Brilli를 신뢰할 수 없는 것으로 낙인찍었는지 궁금하다[1].게다가, 나는 브릴의 출처에 대한 나의 말을 증명하는 두 개의 출판사 순위를 주었다.
  • 바흐만다르와 이스칸데르 베그 문시 페이지에 대한 나의 편집은 경험하지 못한 나의 첫 편집 중 하나였다.
  • 바쿠 칸나테는 인종적으로 아제르바이잔의 칸인데, 어느 집이 바히카노프 집이었는지 모르지만, 불행히도 나는 내 토크 페이지에서 토론을 할 때 루이 아라곤에게 그 말을 한 것을 잊어버렸다.
  • 페이지의 주들은 지리적 기준에 의해 훼손된다.그래서 현대 아제르바이잔 영토에 있던 주로서 시르반샤는 동유럽 구역에 있어야 하기 때문에 동유럽 국가 목록에 추가했다.
  • 안티오키아와 쿠바 칸나테 페이지에 대한 나의 편집은 신중하지 못했어, 난 이해해.샤한샤하5 (대화) 12:44, 2019년 1월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
첫째, 이 불평은 따르기가 매우 어렵다.둘째, 이것은 콘텐츠 논쟁처럼 보인다.2600:100F:B104:1606:FC9F:90E:6DC4:B70E (대화) 17:56, 2019년 1월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
확장 콘텐츠
ANI 섹션 WP에 대한 대응책이라고 생각한다.NOTHERE 사용자별 편집:샤한샤5그곳으로 옮겨야 할까?들 (대화) 2019년 1월 11일 18시 12분 (UTC)[응답]
이동. 자격증(토크) 19:06, 2019년 1월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워 샤한샤하5 (대화) 08:43, 2019년 1월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

1)샤한샤하5가 링크하는 것은 SENSE에 의한 랭킹 시스템이다.페이지 어디에도 브릴이 믿을 수 없고, 덜 믿을 수 있는 혹은 심지어 "그것은 높은 믿을 수 있는 출처가 아니다"라고 명시되어 있지 않다.하지만 샤한샤하5는 영어로 쓰여진 것을 읽고 이해하는 데 그들의 무능력을 보여주었다.SENSE 문서 및 조직 페이지."그것이 명시되어 있는 곳:WASS-Sense 출판사의 순위 목록은 WASS와 SENSE 네덜란드 대학원에 대해서만 설정되었다는 점에 유의하십시오. 이 목록은 우리 연구원들이 사용하는 출판사를 바탕으로 한 것이다. 다른 기관에서 사용해서는 안 된다고 말했다.
아제르바이잔 정부가 아제르바이잔 역사를 다시 쓰는 데 개입했다는 점을 강조한 리뷰를 브릴이 출판한 데 대한 반응이다.이건 POV가 최고를 밀고 있는거야.
2)샤한샤하5는 많은 경우에 서투른[65] 또는/또는 말이 되지 않는 추가 정보를 가지고 있다.위키백과의 명확한 사례:CIR.
3)샤한샤하5가 배틀그라운드 발언을 했다.인종차별에 대한 고발, 의 읽기 어렵고 터무니없는 편집에 동의하지 않는 편집자들을 "친이란 동료들"이라고 칭함
4)거절하여 요점을 파악한다.[66] 샤한샤하5는 그들의 POV를 밀어붙이기 위해 너무 서두르고 있었다. 그들은 출처를 위해 사용하던 책이 그들이 삭제하는 정보를 뒷받침한다는 것을 이해하지 못했거나 이해할 수 없었다.그리고 이 말을 했을 때, 그들은 여전히 내가 한 말을 무시했고 그리고 나서 그들의 영어실력이 부족하다고 나를 비난했어!
이런 일이 계속되도록 할 이유가 없다고 본다. --캔자스 베어 (토크) 03:32, 2019년 1월 13일 (UTC)[응답하라]

(1) SENSE 문서화[1] A: 세계 최고 출판사가 발행한 도서 출판물 참조 B: 세계 반상위 출판사에서 발행한 참조 도서 출판물이라고 적는가?A 등급은 높은 등급의 출처를 의미하지 않는가?그리고 B 등급의 소스인 브릴이 얼마나 높은 등급을 받을 수 있는가?아, 그리고 이 위키 페이지에서도 브릴을 확인했는데, 최고의 출판사 리스트가 있는 인데, 나는 브릴이라는 이름을 못 알아챘어.그리고 "이 훌륭한 학술 출판사를 흑백화하려는 시도는 아제르바이잔 정부가 아제르바이잔 역사를 다시 쓰는 데 관여했다는 것을 강조한 리뷰를 출판한 브릴에 대한 반응이었다"는 것에 대해서는, 브릴이 A등급을 받는 출판사 순위를 적어도 두 개 주는 것은 어떨까?
(3)바흐만다르 토크페이지가 조금 늦은 것 같아서 이미 ANI로 답변을 했다.두번째 고발, 흠, 나는 이곳의 사용자들이 @Wikaviani: 그리고 @Wario-Man: 나의 편집 내용을 친아제르바이잔과 민족주의/비판주의자로 표기한 이후부터 정직할 수 있다고 생각했었다.그래서 나도 정직해야 한다고 생각하고 몇몇 동료들의 POV에 대해 말했다.
(4)나는 이미 여기서 쿠바 자바테에 대해 대답했다.두 번째 거래인 "영어 실력이 부족해서 날 혼내줬어"는 어때, 내 문장의 의미를 조작하는 데 별로 성공적이지 않아. "나에게 불리한 다른 증거를 얻기 위해 그 기사들에 이 문장을 고치지 않은 것 같아." 당신은 내 편집을 되돌리지 않았고 적어도 내 문장을 고치지 않았어. (High RS source)( ) 관리자에게 나를 보고할 때까지.그러나 관리자에게 보고한 후, 작업을 마치면 내 편집 내용을 되돌렸다 [1], [2].샤한샤하5 (대화) 13:59, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@LouisAragon:, 편집에 대해 네가 나를 비난하는 것에 대해 내 요구에 대답할 생각이 없니?샤한샤하5 (대화) 14:00, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

주제 금지 제안

위의 증거와 토론을 바탕으로 샤한샤하5에 대해 중동, 코카서스 지역, 이란/터키 세계와 관련된 모든 주제에 대해 6개월의 주제 금지를 제안한다. - 루이아라곤 (토크) 08:00, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 위와 같은 의견과 관련 사용자들이 제공한 증거에 따른 지원. 6개월의 주제 금지 조항은 그가 WP에 속해 있는지 여부를 우리에게 보여줄 것이다.HTBAE냐 아니냐.내 의견으로는 그의 토크 페이지에 최종 경고를 게시하는 것도 필요하다. --Wario-Man (대화) 09:41, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 위의 증거와 논평에 따른 지원.---위카비아니 10:19, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 위의 증거는 샤한샤하5가 NPOV에 대한 위키피디아의 정책과 이러한 주제에 대해 쓸 때 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 협력하거나 준수할 수 없다는 것을 보여준다. --Jayron32 17:11, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지 솔직히, 나는 위의 내용이 CIR 블록에 대한 근거를 보여준다고 생각하지만, 부드럽게 시작해 상황이 나아지는지 살펴보자.블록은 싸고 쉽고, 편집자를 얻는 것도 적다.골든링 (토크) 17:40, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 골든링에 대한 지원에는 동의하지만, 그렇다. 만약 편집자가 그들이 강한 견해를 가지고 있는 것으로 보이는 분야를 피한다면, 그들은 속도를 늦추고 협업, NPOV, AGF, 그리고 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 대해 조금 더 배울 수 있다.들 (대화) 18:19, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 골든링에 동의함 CIR 블록에 대한 근거가 있다.6개월의 주제 금지는 CIR 문제를 어떻게 해결할 것인지, 제이론 노트로서 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로서 혼란을 부정할 것이다. --캔자스 베어 (토크) 19:35, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 골든링 당 지원 78.26 19:42, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 6개월의 주제 금지를 지지할 것이다. 왜냐하면 그것이 테이블 위에 있기 때문이다. 하지만 사실 나는 그것들을 별로 믿지 않는다.편집하지 않고 시간제한 금지를 기다리며 아무것도 배우지 못한 다음 오래된 모든 문제를 그대로 가지고 돌아오기는 너무 쉽다.나는 6개월 이내에 항소되는 무기한 토픽 금지를 훨씬 더 선호한다. 이 경우 상소는 믿을만하고 다른 주제(그리고 자매 프로젝트에서도!)에 대한 편집은 진전을 보인다. (IR 블록도 잘한다.)비쇼넨 토크 22:17, 2019년 1월 17일 (UTC)[답답하다]
  • 나는 또한 무기한 금지를 확실히 지지할 수 있지만, 우리가 그들을 변호하기 전에 최소한 기회가 주어지는 것을 보고 싶다.골든링 (토크) 11시 17분, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 자세한 내용은 다음을 참조하십시오.위 편집자는 여기에 5일째인데, 벌써 두 번이나 차단되었다.그는 시놀라로부터 위키피디아에 대해 알지 못하며, 그들의 모든 편집에 그것을 보여준다(예:관리자는 기사에 할당된 것으로 생각하고, 편집 중인 기사에 대한 관리자가 될 수 있도록 RfA를 제출했으며, 여러 가지 논쟁을 벌이고 있었다. #사용자:AndInFirstPlace 아래 추가 정보).그들의 투표는 무시되어야 한다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 14:51, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • SPI가 여러 계정을 남용했음을 확인한다는 이유로 위의 논의에서 AndInFirstPlace를 놀라게 했다.톰스타81 (토크) 18:40, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 또한 고정된 주제 금지에 대해 의구심을 가지고 있는데, 그것은 나이가 아니라 변화해야 하는 논쟁적인 주제에 대한 편집자의 문제적 접근법이기 때문이다. 하지만 나는 이것이 제안되고 있는 것이기 때문에 지지할 것이다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 13:06, 2019년 1월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • BishonenSupport per by the block out of a clock out of recitation.-- DLOhcierkim (talk) 16:29, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답하라]

주제 금지 제안서 작성

나는 6개월의 주제 금지의 효과에 대해 약간 양면적이긴 했지만, 비교적 새로운 사용자를 위한 직접적인 CIR 인데버리를 지원하는 것은 꺼렸다.나는 비쇼넨이 제안한 것, 즉 6개월 안에 상소할 수 있는 주제를 금지할 수 있지만 샤한샤하5가 협력, NPOV 및 신뢰할 수 있는 출처와 관련하여 위키백과 정책을 진정으로 배우고 이해하고 실천했다는 증거가 동반될 경우에만 기꺼이 지지할 것이다.들 (대화) 15:36, 2019년 1월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 논평: 관리자가 마침내 이 사건을 종결시킬 수 있는가?TBAN에 대한 만장일치의 지지가 있다.여러 날이 지났다(아카이브봇이 사용하지 않아 실수로 보관한 것조차 수동으로 보관해야 했다[67]. - 루이아라곤(토크) 11:26, 2019년 1월 26일(UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자별 중단 편집:이암베셀린

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

한 달 전쯤 프로레슬링 챔피언쉽 기사에 잘못된 유형의 대시보드를 사용하고 있다는 것을 알게 되면서 이 사용자를 처음 접하게 되었다.당시에는 큰 문제가 되지 않았고 나는 편집을 취소했고 편집 요약에서 사용자에게 잘못된 유형의 대시를 사용하고 있다고 말했다.나는 그것이 충분하다고 생각했지만, 그것은 아니었고 그들은 내가 되돌린 것과 같은 종류의 편집을 더 많이 했다.Iamveselin은 계속 이렇게 해서 나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 그들이 무엇을 잘못하고 있는지 설명하는 글을 남겼다.이 정도면 충분할 것 같았지만 그렇지 않았고 아이암베셀린도 다시 같은 유형의 편집을 했기 때문에, 나는 그것들을 되돌리고 만약 그들이 계속 나를 무시한다면, 그들은 보고될 것이라고 경고하는 다른 게시물을 남겼다.이 문제에 관한 그들의 편집을 중단한 것처럼 보이지만, 나는 그들이 며칠 전에 WWE SmackDown Women's Champions 페이지에 다시 올라갔다는 것을 알아차렸다.이 사용자는 여성 레슬링 기사 두어 건에 대한 비파괴적 편집(내용 삭제)에 대해 이달부터 세 차례나 별도의 경고를 받고 있다는 점도 유의해야 한다.굳이 이 보고서를 만들 필요는 없었지만, 이 사용자는 내 경고와 다른 사용자의 경고를 무시하고 있다. --JDC808 00:11, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 프로레슬링 기사가 엉뚱한 대시를 하고... ANI?정말?EENG 00:42, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
    너한텐 캣닙같아, 그냥 "잠깐만 운전하지 마.MPJ-DK (대화) 00:52, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
    < 꽥꽥 쉬는 소리, 사람들 비명 지르는 소리> EENG 00:58, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
    빈정거릴 필요 없어.말했듯이 (대시가 사소한 문제라서) 보고서를 만들고 싶지 않았다.실제 문제는 사용자가 자신의 토크 페이지나 요약 편집에 게시된 내용을 완전히 무시하고 있다는 사실이다(그리고 대시만이 사용자가 한 유일한 파괴적 편집은 아니다). --JDC808 01:12, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
JDC808, 나는 거의 10년 동안 편집해 왔고 지역 사회로부터 행정가로 신뢰받고 있다.나는 아직도 '권'과 '틀린' 유형의 대시를 구분하는 것을 이해하지 못하며, 그 구별을 사소한 것으로 여긴다.만약 여러분이 대시를 너무 많이 신경 쓴다면, 여러분의 심장에 맞는 대시를 바꾸십시오.그러나 대시의 변주곡에 신경 쓰지 않는 편집자들을 괴롭혀도 소용없다.그건 현학적인 거야.컬렌렛328 2019년 1월 20일 01:42, (UTC)에 대해 토론하자[응답하라]
(충돌 편집)Cullen328, 여러 종류의 대시(-, –, —)에 대해 배운 적이 없고, 대시(-, –, —)가 특정 용도를 가지고 있어서 유감이다.당신이 이것을 털어놓고 적절한 대시를 말해준다는 것은 (양질의 글쓰기로 했을 때) 문제가 되지 않으며 기본적으로 이 사용자와의 전쟁을 편집하라고 말하는 것은 관리자로서 당신을 의심하게 만든다.보고서 다 읽었어?대쉬는 제쳐두고, 가장 큰 문제는 이 사용자가 내 경고와 다른 사용자의 경고를 무시하고 있다는 점이다. --JDC808리케이트 01:52, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
JDC808, 나는 너에게 전쟁을 편집하라고 말하지 않았다.나는 네가 대시와 관련된 그노메 일을 하고 싶다면, 언제든지 환영한다고 너에게 말했어.당신은 실제적인 혼란의 증거를 제시하지 않았다. 다만 이 실이 당신에게 일종의 파괴적인 것이라는 것 외에는.컬렌렛328 02:08, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답]
"내 맘대로 대시를 바꾸라"고 하셨잖아요. 즉, 만약 그가 대시를 바꾸면, 나는 올바른 방법으로 되돌릴 것이고, 그것은 편집 전쟁으로 알려진, 계속적인 순환이 될 겁니다. 그리고 우리는 다시 바로 여기에 있게 될 겁니다.증거가 없다고?맞아, 어떤 링크도 안 보셨나 봐.그리고 다시 한 번 말하지만, 대시는 문제가 아니다.그만 좀 그것에 매달려라.보고서 전체를 읽어야 할 행정관에게 이렇게 여러 번 반복할 필요는 없을 것 같아. --JDC808리케 02:18, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
이 편집자가 대시를 하이픈으로 바꾼다고 되돌린 적이 있는가, 아니면 그 반대로 바꾼 적이 있는가?실제 교란의 실제 증거를 제시해야 해, JDC808.응, 나는 그들의 토크 페이지에서 몇 가지 경고를 봤어.그 때문에 이 편집자를 차단해 달라는 겁니까?컬렌렛328 2019년 1월 20일 03시 19분(UTC)에 토론하자[응답하라]
그는 나나 다른 사람들을 직접적으로 되돌리지는 않았지만, 여러 번 잘못된 것을 덧붙인다는 말을 들었음에도 불구하고 잘못된 대시를 다시 읽었다.만약 모든 인스턴스가 필요하다면, 나는 그것들을 연결할 수 있지만, 많은 것들이 있고 또 다른 사용자들도 같은 문제로 그를 되돌렸다.다른 문제에서는 사용자도 내용을 공백으로 만들거나 삭제 중이고 되돌렸으나 이러한 경고도 무시했다.사용자들은 분명히 우리의 의사소통 시도를 무시하고 있고 계속해서 같은 종류의 편집을 하고 있다.다른 사람의 경고에도 불구하고 편집을 계속할 수 없다는 것을 알기 위해 블록이 필요할 수 있다. --JDC808 03:47, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
JDC808, 하이픈과 마이너스 부호, 엔 대쉬와 엠 대쉬의 구별은 글쓰기의 문제가 아니다. 그 구별은 손으로 쓴 원고나 손으로 쓴 타자기로 글쓰기에 완전히 뒤죽박죽이 되어 있고, 위대한 문학 작품들이 그런 식으로 쓰여졌기 때문이다.대신에, 그것은 타이포그래피와 철자법의 영역에 있다.예, 스타일 매뉴얼은 상황에 따라 다른 중간 줄 문자를 요구한다.그것이 우리가 실제로 백과사전적인 산문을 쓰는 편집자들의 작품을 베끼기를 좋아하는 지놈들을 가지고 있는 이유다.어떤 콘텐츠 제작자도 전자 대시 대신 엔 대시(en dash)를 사용한다고 해서 비난을 받아서는 안 된다.그것은 가장 나쁜 유형의 교육이다.만약 여러분이 이러한 특징에 관심을 갖는 편집자 중 한 명이라면, 그것을 고치고 앞으로 나아가라.내가 쓴 글에서 대쉬와 하이픈을 고쳐준다면 더 많은 힘이 될 거야!그런 사소한 일로 불평하는 일은 결코 없을 것이며, 겨우 눈치채고 있을 것이다.컬렌렛328 2019년 1월 20일 05:57 (UTC)에 대해 토론하자[응답하라]
다시 한 번 말하지만, 사용자들의 진짜 문제는 통신 시도를 무시하는 것이 아니라, 대시에 걸려들고 있다.문제는 내가 "고정"을 몇 번 했지만, 요약/대화 페이지 게시물 편집에도 불구하고 이 사용자가 계속 수정하고 있다는 것이다.그렇다면 사용자가 요약 편집이나 자신의 토크 페이지를 무시하기 때문에 기본적으로 "수정"을 계속하려는 것인가? --JDC808 리퀴드 08:31, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
음, 누가 하이픈과 대쉬에 "취미"하고 있는지는 정확히 논쟁의 여지가 있지만, 그렇다, 의사소통의 부족은 문제가 된다. 하지만 당신은 왜 그 주제에 대해 아주 사소한 것일 때 그와 이야기하는 것이 그렇게 중요하다고 생각하는지 재평가할 필요가 있다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:46, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
너희들은 진짜 이슈를 회피하는 재주가 있다.네가 이 코멘트를 수정하기 전에, 나는 속으로 "멋져, 그가 마침내 진짜 이슈를 보게 되었어"라고 생각했지만, 네가 이 코멘트를 확장시켰고, 그리고 지금 나는 얼굴을 팔려고 하고 있어. 왜냐하면 기본적으로 네가 그것을 원점으로 되돌리고 있기 때문이야.대시(dash)가 사소한 것이라도 문제가 되지 않는 것은 내가 문제를 시정하기 위해 사용자와 소통하려고 노력했지만 응답하지 않고 계속 같은 편집을 반복한다는 사실이다. --JDC808 22:34, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
(ec)JDC808, 일부 편집자는 사용자나 기사 토크 페이지를 절대 보지 않는다.그들은 의사소통이 아니라 편집을 원한다.만약 이것이 편집 전쟁(즉 IF)으로 전환된다면, 당신은 WP에 게시해야 한다.하지만 당신과 다른 편집자들을 무시하는 것은 블록 가치가 있는 위반이 아니에요.그리고, 당신의 불평에 대한 일반적인 반응으로 미루어 알겠는데, 어떤 관리자도 이 상황을 편집자에게 부과되는 차단 조치를 요구하는 즉각적이고 긴급한 문제로 보지 않을 것 같다.나는 너의 문제를 여기에 게시하는 것이 비웃을 만하다고 생각하지 않지만 분명히 지금 이 행동은 너에게 그렇게 보일지 모르지만 파괴적인 것으로 보이지는 않는다.닌자 로보트피레이트는 Iamveselin의 사용자 토크 페이지에 프로레슬링에 대한 일반 제재에 대한 경고를 게시했다. 그래서 그들은 경고를 받았다.바라건대, 그들은 이 메시지에 주의를 기울이길 바란다.리즈Read! Talk! 06:16, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
바라건대, 하지만 그들은 아마 지금까지의 기록을 내지 않을 것이다. --JDC808 08:31, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
그런 말 좀 봐. 그렇지 않으면 접는 의자가 머리 위로 부서질 거야.EENG 01:48, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
EENG, 나는 1957년 11월 19일 매디슨 스퀘어 가든에서 벌어진 추악한 싸움에 연루된 한 프로레슬링 전기인 Dick the Bruiser를 대대적으로 확장했다. 그는 버려진 많은 의자들이 흩어져 경기장을 떠났다.어떤 것들은 절대 변하지 않아.컬렌328 06:08, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답]
(충돌 편집) 나는 대시는 신경 쓰지만, 사람들이 대시를 쓸 때 사용하든 신경 안 써. 그리고 그것이 정말 중요하다고 생각하지 않아.철자가 틀린 것, 다른 구두점 실수, 잘못된 인용 스타일, 또는 무엇이든, 이해할 수 있는 한, 나는 어느 것 보다도 읽을 수 있는 내용을 가지고 있고, 새로운 콘텐츠가 제대로 포맷되었는지에 대해 우리가 강조해야 한다고 생각하지 않는다.처음부터 쓰는 것보다 몇 개의 오자와 물건을 고치는 것이 쉽기 때문에 — 사람들이 잘못 포맷된 내용을 추가하는 것은 아무 문제가 없다고 보지만, 그것은 단지 나의 2 : :) —{{u Goldenshmer}} (그들/그들/그들)|😹|️|John 15:12|☮️|🍂|T/C 01:51, 2019년 1월 20일(UTC)[답글]
MOS에 따르면 너는 "나의 0.02달러"라고 말해야 한다.EENG 02:00, 2019년 1월 20일(UTC)[답글]
(충돌 편집)@JDC808: 사용자가 곧 당신을 무시하는 것을 멈출 것이라고 기대하지는 않는다.그들은 기사 공간 외에는 어떤 것도 편집한 적이 없다.그들은 말을 하지 않는다.더 말하고 싶지만 달려야 한다.--Bb23 (대화) 02:02, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 스스로에게 접근한다.EENG 02:12, 2019년 1월 20일(UTC)[답글]

진지하게 말하면, 우리는 여기서 미국 정치, 낙태, 양철모자, 중동, 발칸 축구 선수들의 탄생지, 그리고 일본 애니메이션 장르를 합친 것보다 "프로" 레슬링에 대한 실마리를 더 많이 얻는다.너희들은 정신차려라.EENG 02:10, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]

  • 마치 부과된 '일반 제재'가 문제를 해결하지 못한 것처럼 말했을 뿐이다.MPJ-DK (대화) 02:15, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

최근의 BLP EW re: 피험자의 만족도/그녀의 계약/고용자에 대한 불만족(obvi 함축은 불필요함)에서 Iamveselin은 잠재적으로 문제가 될 수 있는 내용을 제거하고 HTML 코멘트를 통해 자신의 이유를 전달하고 있었던 것으로 보인다.나는 왜 그들이 이것에 대해 경고를 받았는지 모르겠다.이전의 경고는 편집자의 소스 추가가 설명 없이 제거된 지난주부터 이 EW에 관한 것으로 보인다.왜 그들에게도 경고가 주어졌는지는 확실하지 않다.비록 그들이 언제 사용해야 할지를 사용하고 있지만, 그들의 나머지 기여는 나에게 백과사전의 개선처럼 보인다. ?! 05:12, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 레비비히가 여기서 보여주는 예들은 나에게 "파괴"로 보이지 않고, 그것들에 대한 반응이 더 파괴적인 것 같다 - 출처 제거, 신뢰할 수 없는 출처에 인용된 루머를 읽는 것 - 어느 행동도 기사에 도움이 되지 않고, 나에게도 실제로 Iamveselin을 편집에 있어 파괴적인 것처럼 보이게 하지 않는다."파행적 행동"을 보여주기 위해 제공되는 디프는 그들의 대화 페이지에 있는 메시지만 언급할 뿐이며, 그 자체로는 아무것도 증명할 수 없다.MPJ-DK (대화) 06:27, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이를 촉발한 3가지 경고를 보고 2개는 같은 기사용이고, 역사를 검토한 결과 '파행성'이 아닌 것으로 보이는 사용자 1명이 일부 내용을 예외로 하고 왔다갔다 하지만, 이암베젤린의 토크 페이지에 2가지 경고가 쏟아지는데, 이 내용은 내가 적대적으로 보인다.세 번째 경고는 누군가가 믿을 수 없는 출처를 가지고 소문을 없애는 것은 명백히 BLP를 용납할 수 없다고 생각했기 때문이다.나는 여기서 "파행적 책임감"에 대한 경우를 보지 못했다.MPJ-DK (대화) 06:33, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 세심한 주의를 기울이지 않으면 시대에 뒤처질 수 있다는 사실이 놀랍다.예를 들어, 나는 우주가 만들어졌을 때, 각 상황에서 정확히 어떤 종류의 짧은 수평선이 사용되어야 하는지 몰랐고 모든 가능한 상황이 패키지의 일부분이라는 것을 전혀 알지 못했다.여기서 나는 어떤 버전이든 읽을 수 있고 정보를 전달하는 것이 괜찮다고 생각했고, 그것은 항상 완전히 정확한 버전이 있다는 것을 알게 되었다. 그리고 분명히 JDC808은 그것이 무엇인지 정확하게 알고 있다.누가 그것을 떨어뜨렸는가?비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 05:44, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
  • BMK가 그 게시물에 두 개의 하이픈을 사용한 것은 아주 교묘했다. ?! 06:59, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
마이 켄넘어서, 만약 어떤 것이 문법적으로 틀리거나 오타가 있지만 읽을 수 있고 정보를 전달했다면, 비록 그것이 전문적 품질의 기사를 발표하려고 했던 백과사전에서 문장에 실렸을지라도, 괜찮다면, 우리는 여기 저기서 정확한 구두법을 사용하는 것을 잊었을지도 모른다, 괜찮지?겟차(Gotcha) 그러나 잘 알려진 것과 잘 알려진 것, 그리고 잘 알려진 것 사이에는 차이가 있다. --JDC808 little 08:52, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
하이픈과 대시를 사용하는 것은 어떤 의미에서도 문법의 문제가 아니다.컬렌이 이미 말했듯이, 그것은 타이포그래피맞춤법의 영역에 있다.그렇게 골다공증을 부리지 마.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 10시 40분, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각에 그건 네 생각을 넘어선 것 같아.여하튼, 당신의 게시물은 문제를 해결하는데 아무런 도움이 되지 않았고, 여기에는 이미 충분한 양의 글이 있다. --JDC808 20:06, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
"해결"될 "이슈"가 정말로 없다는 사실이 당신의 것을 바로 넘어간 것 같다.잘못되었다고 생각되는 것을 보면 고쳐라.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:03, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
마이 켄넘어서, 그래서 이 사용자가 문제를 해결하기 위한 의사소통의 시도를 완전히 무시하고 있다는 사실이 문제가 되지 않는가?나는 이미 위의 컬런에게 이 말을 했지만, 몇 번이나 "고정했다"고 했지만, 사용자가 편집된 요약과 토크 페이지 게시물을 무시하고 있기 때문에 계속 변경하고 있다."고치는 것"은 그들이 그것을 다시 바꿀 것이기 때문에 일시적인 것일 뿐이고, 그것은 단지 지속적인 순환이 될 것이다.여러분 모두 관리인이어야 하는데, 여기서 절대적으로 형편없는 조언을 하고 있고, 진짜 이슈는 간과하고 있다. --JDC808 21:24, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
JDC808이 편집한 마지막 기사를 보면, 내가 그 정도의 텍스트를 추가했다면, 나는 그들보다 더 많은 복사본 편집이 필요했을 것이다.그들은 1월 19일 이후로 편집하지 않았다. -- DLOhcierkim (대화) 09:07, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]

나는 그들에게 우리와 함께 해달라는 또 다른 쪽지를 남겼다.ANI 통지 전 (내 생각에) 이후로 편집하지 않았기 때문에 시간이 좀 걸릴 수도 있다.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 09:13, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC) 고백할 게 있다.나는 하이픈과 m-dash를 구별할 수 없다.나는 세 가지 모두에 대해 "-" 키를 사용하거나 때때로 두 번 입력한다.내가 가지고 있는 유일한 수평선이야.-- Dlohcierkim (대화) 09:16, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[답답하다]

그것은 Iamveselin의 마지막 기고문을 복사한 MPJ-DK였다.내 마지막 글의 마지막 문장을 보면, 차이가 보이지 않니?Iamveselin's talk 페이지에서 나는 그들에게 "-" 키를 한 번 누르기만 하면 된다고 말했지만, 그들은 대신 편집창 아래의 캐릭터 목록에서 첫 번째 대시(엔다시)를 클릭한다. --JDC808 10:15, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 그랬어. 그리고 문제의 편집자가 편집한 것은 괜찮았어.사실, - 대 - 대 - 대 - (최악의 레슬마니아 주요 사건)의 복잡성을 이해하지 못하는 것 외에, 나는 그들이 대화 페이지를 사용하려고 하지 않는 것 같은 사실은 그 자체로 문제가 되지 않는다.대시가 문제가 아니라면 ANI. MPJ-DK (토크) 13:14, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]을 위해 편집이 중단될 수 있는 디프를 제공하십시오.
나는 여기에 관여하고 싶지 않았지만 솔직히 이곳의 관리자들에게 실망했다.JDC808은 수리를 위해 문제를 보고하려고 하는데, 수리를 위해 일하는 것이 아니라 ANI가 아니라 REWNEW를 위한 것이라고 말하는 것이다.둘 중 한 명이 대화를 그쪽으로 옮기는 것은 그렇게 어렵지 않을 것이다.편집 횟수를 감안할 때 Iamveselin을 왔다갔다 해야 한다(Becky Lynch에서 분명히 볼 수 있음:수정 역사) 그들에게 경고해야 했다.나는 여기서 되돌리지 않고 합의를 이끌어내려고 노력했다, 토크:베키 린치#Ronda Rousey(이전의 내 사용자 이름이었던 BTW)와 함께 있는 남자/피드(Feud with Ronda Rousey)는 아무런 응답도 찾지 못했다.나는 너희들이 단순히 "대시"에 대해 논쟁함으로써 문제를 회피하는 것을 좋아하지 않는다. 여기서 진짜 문제는 사용자들의 의사소통 부족이다.프로레슬링은 왜 이렇게 불만이 많은가?글쎄, 아마 매주 업데이트하는 게 쉬운데다 신규 사용자들도 애초에 이해를 못 할 것 같아.MPJ-DK가 지적했듯이 제재는 별로 실효성이 없다.나는 이런 종류의 새로운 사람들이 토론 페이지를 사용하도록 하기 위해 추가적인 페이지 보호를 제안하고 싶다.나는 WP를 따른다.PW/MOSWP:PW/내 편집을 위한 리소스.그들이 열린 토론에 응하지 않는다면 우리는 어떻게 대처해야 하는가?관리자들, 제발 상황을 보고 남의 탓을 하지 말고 '편집 방해'라는 말을 오용해 달라.남의 잘못을 생각한다면 얼마든지 비판하고 정중하게 상황을 명확히 할 수 있다.고마워, 그리고 그들의 지속적인 파괴적 편집(합의 없이 편집하고 경고 무시하며 대응하지 않는) 때문에 Iamveselin을 감시하게 되어서 여기까지 오게 되었다.임파서블위저드(챗) 13:39, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
Cullen328EENG는 미안하지만, 나는 네가 기자를 얕잡아 보는 것 같아.네가 Iamvesline에게 똑같이 했더라면 나는 훨씬 덜 신경 썼을 거야, 왜냐하면 그들은 대화에도 나타나지 않으니까.선의의 가정을 소홀히 해서는 안 되며, 행정가는 일반적으로 남들이 우러러볼 수 있는 노련하고 존경받는 편집자로 간주된다.기본 강의에 대해 다시 한 번 사과하지만, 아무리 좋은 사람이라도 신성한 원칙을 잊는 경우가 있다.임파서블위저드(챗) 15:11, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워진짜 이슈는 사용자(아이암베셀린)의 소통 부족이지만, 그동안 이 이슈를 경시하지 않거나 대시(dash)에 매달린 관리자(리즈)는 단 한 명뿐이었다.이 토론은 만약 그들이 대쉬 문제를 조롱하는 대신에 실제 문제에 집중했다면 훨씬 더 작을 수 있다. --JDC808 20:06, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 나는 편집된 내용을 살펴봤고, 사용자가 1) 두 곳을 연결하는 것, 2) 다른 사람이 중복되는 소스를 추가하는 것, 3) 업데이트에서 원하는 것보다 좀 더 상세하게 하는 것 때문에 다음과 같은 편집이 "중복적인 편집"이라고 라벨을 붙이는 것을 보았다.그들이 의사소통을 하지 않는 것이 짜증나니?그래, 하지만 "파괴"라고 말하는 것은 지나친 반응이고 그들의 실제 편집이 파괴적인 부분에서는 어떤 차이도 제시되지 않았다. 그래서 아마도 "증거"로 본 것이 대시가 된 것 뿐일 때 이 심각성을 받아들이기 어려울 것이다.MPJ-DK (대화) 15:05, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
MPJ-DK 나는 그들이 내 메시지를 무시하면서 동일한 편집을 할 때마다 중단을 고려한다.임파서블위저드(챗) 15:13, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이것에 동의한다.사용자가 이슈를 수정하려는 커뮤니케이션 시도에도 불구하고 동일한 편집을 계속하는 경우, 그것은 파괴적이며 기사가 불안정해질 수 있다(불안한 이슈에 도달한 것이 아니라 그냥 말할 수 있다). --JDC808 20:06, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
불멸의 마법사 - 여러분들도 같은 편집을 계속하셨고, 설명하지 않고 되돌아가셨지만, 실제로는 아무것도 설명하지 않는 "필요하지 않은" 말을 하셨을 겁니다.내가 보기엔 너희 다 지장을 주거나 방해하지 않는 것 같아. 네가 정말 아무 것도 설명하지 않고 그냥 그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 템플릿에 그 사람이 너와 대화하려는 동기가 어디에 있는 거야?MPJ-DK (대화) 15:18, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
물론 나는 당신이 삭제되었을지도 모르는 사용자들의 대화 페이지에 남긴 메시지를 알지 못한다.MPJ-DK (대화) 15:20, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
MPJ-DK 항상 템플릿만 잘라내는 것은 나뿐만이 아니다.나는 예의 바르게 하려고 노력했고 토론으로 합의에 도달하려고 노력했다.그러나 그들은 응답하지 않았다.만약 편집이 나쁜 IMO라면, 그들이 응답하지 않으면 나는 되돌릴 수 있다."요, 왜 나를 무시하느냐"는 식의 메시지를 늘 남길 수는 없다.임파서블위저드(챗) 15:24, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 계속 했던 반전에 대해 유저에게 공손했던 곳을 보여주시겠습니까?또는 편집 내용을 되돌리는 이유를 사용자에게 설명하려고 시도했다.나는 의사소통의 시도를 한 번 보았다. 그리고 그것은 단지 "이 링크를 봐"였다.MPJ-DK (대화) 15:33, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
MPJ-DKhere여기.그 후, 다른 사용자들 또한 그들의 강연에서 경고 템플릿을 발끈하게 만들었고, 그것은 모든 사람들을 당신의 논리에 근거하여 혼란스럽게 만든다.임파서블위저드(챗) 15:42, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 나는 당신이 기본적으로 "나는 섹션의 명칭에 동의하지 않는다"고 말한 것을 반복한다.내가 이미 언급한 바는, 그 반전에 대한 정중한 대화가 어디서 시작되었지만 계속 무시되었을까 하는 것이었다.MPJ-DK (대화) 15:57, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
미확인범은 무시하고 메세지에 집중해
아 그리고 그건 경찰 관련 문제가 아니었어. 그 구역에 '론다에 대한 감정'이라고 딱지를 붙이려고 한 건 너였어. 그걸 훨씬 넘어서도 말이야. 나도 반대했을 거야."무중단"이 되려면 그들은 단지 당신의 의견에 동의하지 않는 것 이상을 해야 한다.MPJ-DK (대화) 15:59, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
난 왜 너희들이 항상 사람들을 탓하는지 모르겠어.다른 사람의 여러 메시지와 경고를 무시하고 있다는 증거가 뚜렷이 드러난다.토론에 열려 있는 한 어떤 것에 대해 동의하지 않는 것은 무례하지 않다.나는 그들이 스크린 뒤에서 웃고 있을 거라고 확신해. 너희들이 그들에게 아무런 조치도 취하지 않고 대신 선의의 보도를 하는 사람들에게 잘못을 찾아내는 것을.그래, "파괴"는 인정하지만, 컨센서스에 반응하지 않고 계속해서 같은 것을 편집하는 것은 훨씬 더 큰 죄악이다.그리고 대부분 되돌리는 사람들은 템플릿을 지름길로 사용한다.우리를 공격하지 말고 시스템을 탓하라.임파서블위저드(챗) 16:11, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 몇몇 사람들은 몇 달 전에 있었던 토론을 기억할 것이다. 대부분의 프로레슬링 출처가 독립적이지 않고 오히려 카파베 홍보 기계의 일부라는 것을 다시 인식함으로써, 이 주제 영역의 기사 수와 남아 있는 기사들 내의 두뇌 없는 세부사항의 양을 획기적으로 줄이고, 나아가 레슬링의 양을 줄였다.우리 모두가 심판에게 요청받은 것을 아무것도 아닌 것에 대해 격투하는 것 같다.WP:Administrators'_Noticeboard/IncidentArchive989 참조#thought_about_further_measures_to_reduce_wrestling 관련_discruption.지금은 행동을 위해서가 아니라 향후 행동을 위해서 씨앗을 계속 심기 위해서 편집자들이 WP에 열거된 출처를 우리가 인식해야 하는지를 생각해 보았으면 한다.Wiki Project_Professional_wrestling/Source#독립적이지 않은 산업_특정확한 산업.EENG 16:30, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 한 명은 기억나는데, 아직 거기에 대한 답이 없는 질문들이 있어. 하지만 그건 다른 날/장소/시간/치수를 위한 거야.솔직히 여기서 문제는 두 가지 방식으로 진행된다. 즉, 대화에 참여하고 그들이 왜 그 반전을 하는지 설명하려고 노력하는 것과 같은 대화 페이지의 의사소통 금지 대 되돌리기 및 템플리팅이다.양쪽의 결함은, ANI IMO에 있어서는 절대 안 된다. 그것은 단지 나의 0.02달러짜리 MPJ-DK (토크) 16:57, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]일 뿐이다.

(비관리자 의견) @ImmortalWizard:대답해도 괜찮으시다면 두 가지 질문이 있는데, (1) 이 되돌린 이유는 무엇이었습니까(편집 요약이 없음)?(2) "당신의 편집은 공공 기물 파손에 해당하는 것으로 보이며 되돌아갔다"고 경고한 이유는 무엇이었습니까?기물 파손은 무엇이었습니까?)고마워. ?!20:13,2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]

@Levivich:
  1. 편집 요약(ce-copy edit)이 분명히 있었다.아마도 는 WP를 추가했어야 했다.PW/MOS는 좀 더 구체적이다.나는 그것을 위키링크로 했고 WP:해당 아티클의 요약 편집에 대한 PW/소스 미리.나는 그 기사를 한동안 쓰고 있었는데 아마도 약간의 좌절감이 나를 ce로만 만들었을 것이다.그것도 일종의 상식이어서 매번 일일이 명기하는 것도 귀찮았다.
  2. 나는 그들이 내가 전에 했던 메시지를 무시하고 편집했음에도 불구하고 내가 위에서 언급했던 것처럼 "파괴"했기 때문에 그들에게 경고를 받았다.
그리고 너희들이 정말 내 행동과 편집 스타일에 대해 말하고 싶다면 다른 곳에서 토론을 시작해줘.이곳은 이용자들의 행위에 대해서만 사용되어야 하기 때문에 적절한 장소가 아니다.내 기여가 그들의 "분란"의 원인은 아닌 것이 분명했다.임파서블위저드(챗) 20:53, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

이 섹션은 WP로 가득 차 있다.관리자의 통제에도 불구하고 ABP.임파서블위저드(챗) 21:29, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

InvinstanceWizard, WP를 살펴보십시오."적절한 장소가 아니다"라는 당신의 주장이 명시적으로나 구체적으로 철회된 번지.요약하자면, "분쟁이나 토론에 참여한 사람이라면 누구나 그들의 행동이 면밀히 검토되고 있는 것을 발견할 수 있을 것이다."라고 나는 인용한다.건배.두무지드 (대화) 21:34, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워.하지만 사람들은 여기서 너무 주제에서 벗어나고 있다.임파서블위저드(챗) 21:52, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
IW, 당신은 "그들은 다른 사람들의 여러 메시지와 경고를 무시하고 있다"고 말하고 있는데, 제 질문은, 애초에 왜 당신(그리고 다른 사람들이) 그들에게 경고했는가입니다.그들이 잘못하고 있는 것은 무엇인가?나는 공공 기물 파손 경고는 보지만 기물 파손은 보지 않는다.하이픈/대시는 공공 기물 파손이나 파괴적인 편집 경고를 받을 가치가 없다.그래서 네가 그들에게 경고하는 게 뭐야?예를 들어, 위에서 PW/MOS를 인용했는데, PW/MOS의 어떤 부분을 따르지 않았는가? ! 21:40, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
다시 한 번 더 말해야 할 것 같아.나는 사용자가 메시지를 계속 무시하지 않고 편집하는 것에 대해 경고한다.만약 관심이 있다면, 경고를 준 모든 편집자들에게 물어봐라.WP/PW에 있는 것을 명시할 의무는 없다.어쨌든, 기본적으로 불필요한 주 내용을 주중에 추가해서는 안 된다.임파서블위저드(챗) 21:57, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
@Levivich: 이 문제가 무엇에 관한 것인지 알기나 해?Iamveselin은 하이픈 대신 엔 대시(en-dash)로 "두 번"을 포함하는 이런 편집을 자주 하고 있다.문어체 영어에 익숙한 사람이라면 스타일 가이드를 참조할 필요 없이 그것이 잘못되었다는 것을 안다.Iamveselin은 토크 페이지에 논평한 적이 없다.조누니크 (대화) 22:00, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 이게 대쉬 정도라고? ! 22시 12분, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
아니, 그것은 단지 대쉬에 관한 것이 아니다.적어도 내 입장에서 잘못된 대쉬의 문제에서 비롯된 이슈를 해결하는 것은 사용자의 소통 부족이다. --JDC808 22:34, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
대쉬에 대한 모든 이야기와 함께, 모든 사람들이 심각하게 요점을 놓친 것 같다.OP는 또 다른 편집자의 편집에 대한 우려를 제기했다. 편집자는 OP로부터의 토크 페이지 통신에 응답하지 않는다.문제의 핵심은 대시 스타일 간의 논쟁이 아니라 토론 실패다.나는 ANI에서 그런 편집자가 "헤이 유! 얘기 좀 해"라는 블록으로 히트한 사례를 많이 보아왔다.논란이 되고 있는 사안에 상관없이 이 게시물은 같은 공로로 판단해야 하는 것 아닌가? --Blackmane (대화) 22:53, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

마감 후 주석

  • 그러니 이 점을 분명히 하자면, 편집자는 기사에 비난할 수 없는 (그들의 토크 페이지를 보는 것에서부터) 반달리즘에 대한 잘못된 비난에 응답하지 않았다는 이유로 차단되었고, 그들이 올바른 유형을 사용하지 않았다고 (그들이 한 것처럼) 신고하겠다고 위협한 누군가는 차단되었다.대쉬의"Bully people off Wikipedia" 달은 도대체 뭐야?불합리한 요구를 하는 사람들에게 대응하는 올바른 방법은 그들을 무시하는 것이다.편집자는 전자파 마피아에게 굽실거릴 필요가 없다.놀래라.다음 번에 누군가가 대시를 할 때, 나는 필요한 유일한 대응은 '젠장 꺼지는 것'일 것이라고 생각한다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 03:13, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
'올바른 유형의 대시(dash)를 사용하지 않는다고 신고하겠다고 협박한다'는 답변에 대해, 사용자는 여러 차례 잘못된 대시(dash)를 사용하고 있다는 말을 들었지만, 계속 나를 무시(적어도 다른 편집자 한 명)하고 올바른 대시(dash)에서 잘못된 대시(dash)로 바꾸었다.사용자가 편집 내용을 논의하거나 설명하지 않을 것이므로, 다른 할 일이 있었는가? --JDC808 07:17, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아니, 이건 말이 돼
  1. "하지만 당신과 다른 편집자들을 무시하는 것은 블록 가치가 있는 위반이 아니다." - 이 줄기의 관리자 리즈
  2. "사용자가 조만간 자네를 무시하는 것을 멈출 줄은 몰랐네.그들은 기사 공간 외에는 어떤 것도 편집한 적이 없다.그들은 말을 하지 않는다.더 말하고 싶지만, 달려야 해." - 이 실의 Bb23
  3. "나는 3일 동안 Iamveselin을 차단했다. 협업 실패, 다른 사용자의 우려에 대한 대응 실패, 의사소통 실패의 하위 집합으로서 편집 요약을 사용하지 않음(요약을 사용하지 않고 대화를 하지 않음) - Bb23 이 스레드를 닫았다.
  4. "응답을 하지 않으면, 너는 차단될 것이다." - 아무도 편집자에게 말하지 않은 것이다.
침묵을 장려한 다음 경고 없이 편집자를 처벌하라.처음 시작하려면 3일 남았어일리가 있어. ?!06:04, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 위의 논평은 요점을 완전히 빗나가고 있다.위키피디아는 협력적인 공동체로, 사람들이 문제를 제기한다면, 당신은 그것들을 논의할 필요가 있다.할 수 없거나 할 수 없는 경우 다른 웹 사이트를 찾아보십시오.사용자가 편집한 내용에는 터무니없이 우스꽝스럽게 하이픈을 하이픈으로 바꾸면서 보기 표준 하이픈을 en 대시(en dash)로 대체하는 내용이 포함됐다.물론, 그것은 별문제지만, 누군가가 계속해서 그것을 하고, 다른 편집자들에게 절대 응답하지 않을 때, 그들은 멈춰져야 한다.조누니크 (대화) 06:12, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 Cullen328 관리자에 동의한다: "어떤 컨텐츠 크리에이터도 em 대시 대신 en 대시(en dash)를 사용한다고 해서 비난받아서는 안 된다." ?! ?! 06:17, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답하라]
이 사건에서 비판은 강한 말이다.이용자에게 그 문제를 설명하려고 했지만, 무시한 채 왜 자신이 옳다고 생각했는지에 대한 설명도 없이 계속 똑같은 편집을 했다. --JDC808 07:17, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다시 말하지만, 이 문제는 하이픈을 엔 대시로 대체하는 것과 관련이 있다.내가 쓴 글(두 번)을 놓쳤느냐, 믿지 못하느냐.만약 후자가 내가 너에게 준 것을 포함하여 몇 가지 차이점을 확인한다면.조누니크 (대화) 07:01, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Johnuniq, 나는 (그리고 다른 모든 사람들도 마찬가지라고 생각한다) 편집자가 새로운 내용을 추가할 때 하이픈 대신 대시를 사용하는 것이 아니라 하이픈을 대시로 교체하고 있다는 불평이 있다는 것을 이해한다.이것의 예는 OP에 의해 연결된 기사의 역사에 있다.[68] 그러나 사용자 또한 새로운 콘텐츠를 추가하고 있다. 대시를 사용하는 것보다 훨씬 더 많이.이 되돌리기[69]와 이 되돌리기[70]를 보십시오. 이것은 단지 대쉬에 관한 것만은 아니에요.그곳에서도 콘텐츠가 되돌아오고 있다.그런데 이 내용을 되돌리고 반달리즘이나 파괴적 편집 경고 템플릿을 게시하는 편집자(플랄)들은 그저 #$T#$에 불과한 것처럼 만들고 있다!@$# 페이지에 게시되었다가 되돌아오는 경우, 실제로 대시 플러스 내용일 때, 심지어 소싱된 내용까지.그래서 무슨 일이야?그래서 내가 위에서 "왜 되돌렸느냐"고 물었고 그런 질문들이 나온 것이다.어쨌든, 대시는 편집자가 차단된 이유가 아니다; 의사소통이 되지 않는 것이다.봐봐, 나는 이 일에 대해 있는 그대로 너무 많이 썼어. 그러니 내가 더 이상 그 요점을 논할 이유가 없을 것 같아.하지만 너의 관점에 동의하지 않기 때문에 내가 이해가 안 된다는 뜻이거나, 내가 디프트를 읽지 않았다는 뜻이라는 것을 반복해서 제안함으로써 나를 모욕하지 말아줘. ?! ?07:48, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 연결한 차이점들은 나만의 편집사항들이었으므로, 실제로 무엇이 이루어졌는지 보십시오.내가 삭제한 콘텐츠는 사소한 콘텐츠(예: "최초")뿐이었다.나머지는 문법상의 몇 가지 문제를 소개한 Iamveselin의 편집 이전의 (그것이 더 간결했다)로 본문을 다시 바꾸고 있었다.이제 나는 그 기사들과 함께 임파서블위저드와 정적(Static)의 경고의 대상이었던 내용에 대해 말할 수 없다. --JDC808 07:17, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 응? 위의 마지막 댓글을 읽어줘.이미 이 문제가 전자 대시 대신 en 대시(en dash)를 사용하는 것과 아무 관련이 없다는 것을 알고 있다면 왜 이렇게 쓰는가?조누니크 (대화) 08:00, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 왜냐하면 나는 그 진술을 문자 그대로 해석하고 있지 않았기 때문이다.다시 말해보자: 어떤 콘텐츠 제작자도 잘못된 유형의 하이픈이나 대시보드를 사용한다고 비난 받아서는 안 된다.저는 할 수 없어 편집자 및 호출, 또는 BLP에 poorly-sourcedpotentially-damaging 소문을 포함하도록 전쟁을 편집하고 편집자 노골적인 경고를 계속해서 X가 행동을 하는 블록으로 이어질 것 없이 차단되어야 하"반달리즘"조달 가능한 콘텐츠를 제거한다 다른 편집기와 관계를 맺어야 하는 것이 더할 것이다.Levivich?!08:16, 21January 2019 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 나는 동의하지 않는다.일반적인 경우를 살펴보면, 편집자는 그들이 고발당한 위반이 유효한 위반이라는 것을 인정할 필요는 없지만, 그 대가로 "내 편집은 공공 기물 파손이 아니었고, 여기에 이유가 있다"고 대답할 필요가 있다.그들이 광범위한 논의를 계속하거나, 다른 편집자의 행동을 받아들일 필요는 없지만(그들도 마찬가지로 자유롭게 보도할 수 있다), 완전히 미흡한 대응은 위키피디아의 시스템을 약화시키는 역할을 한다.
    구체적인 사례의 문제는 소통 부족을 보고하는 사람들 스스로가 사소한 타이포그래피 문제("보그 스탠다드" 또는 그렇지 않은"반달리즘" 등)를 주요 이슈로 터뜨리고 있었다는 점이다.하지만 결국, 밀고 당기기 위해서는 누구와도 의사소통을 하지 않는 것이 몰골을 산으로 만드는 것보다 더 심각한 문제인데, 그것이 블록이 그렇게 된 이유인 것이다. 적어도 그것이 사건에 대한 나의 해석이다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 10:29, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
단 한 번도 '대시' 편집 반달리즘이라고 한 적이 없고, 그들이 이 문제를 바로잡으려는 시도에도 불구하고 계속 똑같은 편집을 했기 때문에 혼란스러웠을 뿐이라는 점을 지적하고 싶다.「반달리즘」이 사용된 다른 편집자의 경고에도 있었다. --JDC808 07:17, 2019년 1월 22일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자들이 그들의 대화에 응답하지 않았다.그들은 이 모든 것에 대해 장시간 토론하고 있다.블록은 몇 시간 후에 만료된다.-- DLOhcierkim (talk) 20:25, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답하라]
bb23의 폐막 성명에는 "나는 또한 사용자들이 이런 행동을 계속하면 다음 블록은 무기한으로 될 것이라고 경고했다"고 되어 있어, 통신에 대한 새로운 요청에 응답하지 않는지, 그리고 편집 요약을 사용하는지, 그리고 그렇지 않으면...비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 23:12, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
이 모든 것은 잘못된 종류의 하이픈을 사용하는 것이다.우리가 얼마나 많은 행상인들이 되고 있는지.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:34, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
물론 조롱거리가 더 많을 것이다.이슈는 사용자가 이슈를 수정하려는 시도에도 불구하고 계속해서 동일한 편집을 했다는 사실이었다.그들은 요약 편집과 자신의 토크를 완전히 무시했다. --JDC808 01:32, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

2604:4080:1300:8031:1483:60cf:3474:35d8

그러나 또 다른 WP:미국 도로 기사는 여기에 없다.2604:4080:1300:8031:8031:1483:60cf:3474:35d8(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)은 합의 없이 미인증 정보를 반복적으로 추가하고 있다.편집자의 회귀를 중단해 달라는 요청에 그들은 "사실과 인용은 중요하지 않다"고 주장하면서 토론 없이 편집본을 되돌리면 안 된다고 본질적으로 조롱했다.카드84664 (대화) 17:35, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

낯이 익다.--Dlohcierkim (대화) 20:42, 2019년 1월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
@Dlohcierkim:한번 해볼래?그들은 여전히 가고 있다.카드84664(토크) 22:24, 2019년 1월 20일(UTC)[응답]
나는 행정관은 아니지만 WP에게 부탁할 것을 권하고 싶다.RPP. 반보호는 IP와 동적 IP 편집자들이 페이지를 편집하는 것을 방해할 수 있으며, 일반적으로 그들은 지루해 하고 넘어간다.바실로사우루스과 basil basil토크 22:38 (UTC) 2019년 1월 20일 (회신)
내가 그 페이지에 있을 때부터 계속 했고, 어쨌든 그렇게 했어.당신은 꺼리지 않길 바라요.:) 바실로사우루스과 basil basil토크 22:44 (UTC) 2019년 1월 20일 (회신)
나는 이 편집자가 이전의 (그러나 심각한) 제안은 나열되어서는 안 된다는 그들의 주장에 근거하여 같은 페이지에서 605번 주간지(워싱턴)를 삭제한 IP와 같다고 생각한다.사운더브루스 02:49, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
이 토론에 초대해서 세미나가 페이지를 넘겼어.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 03:35, 2019년 1월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
동일한 편집자 - 2604:4080:1300:8031::/64...IPv6 주소는 일반적으로 클라이언트 수준과 /64 CIDR 범위에서 동적으로 배포된다.많은 경우에, 이러한 IP 변화는 매 몇 시간마다 자주 발생할 수 있다.그것은 일반적으로 그들의 통제 범위를 벗어나며 대부분의 경우 블록을 회피하거나 더 많은 장애를 일으키기 위해 IP를 홉으로 하려는 의도적인 시도가 아니다(이러한 셰나니거는 이것을 아는 사용자들에 의해 발생하지만, 일반적으로 당신이 그것을 볼 때 매우 명백하다.이와 같은 상황에서 IP 블록의 왼쪽 절반은 같지만 오른쪽 절반은 다른 IPv6 주소로 편집한 것을 보면, 그 이유가 매우 크다. ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 11:19, 2019년 1월 24일(UTC)[응답]

트롤 농장에 의해 파괴된 이란의 중앙은행

이란 중앙은행(대화 기록 편집 보호 삭제 링크 감시 로그 보기) 변경사항을 주시하십시오.양말 꼭두각시 인형도 돌려주고고마워.66.87.85.155 (대화) 03:05, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

편집 요약을 포함한 66.87.31.105(남쪽 비논쟁 편집: "사용자:신탁은행의 목적은 "러시아인" 또는 "영국인" 이란 은행들이 유대인에 의해 통제되고 있다는 사실을 숨기는 것이었다.)"이어 570d14nn0f7h3n0735원(편집 요약)이 뒤따른다(위키피디아는 반유대주의를 위한 플랫폼이 아니다. 출처가 지원하는 콘텐츠만 남는다."-- Dlohcierkim (talk) 03:27, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 그랬지.. Dlohcierkim(말씀)

'항체'가 전혀 없다는 것만 빼면 말이야조심스럽게 제거된 SOURCED의 긴 스탠딩 부분은 정확히 팩트(즉, 페르시아의 국립 은행과 에스케라지 은행은 로이터와 폴리아코프 - 각 국가의 두 유대인 사업가 - 영국과 러시아)가 소유하고 있었음을 보여준다. 66.87.85.155 (대화) 03:34, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]서명되지 않은 이전 의견 추가
한 나라의 화폐 공급과 관련된 유대인 음모론의 주장은 반유대주의적이다.리즈Read! Talk! 03:45, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
(어디서 그렇게 보나?답변:NOWNOW!)...좋은 의사를 만나야 해, 리즈죄송합니다, 저희가 도와드릴 수 없습니다.66.87.85.155 (대화)04:06, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그만하면 됐다.다른 편집자들을 향한 당신의 메시지와 논평은 위키피디아의 시민권 정책을 준수할 것으로 예상된다; 인신공격은 용납되지 않을 것이다.만약 당신이 기사에 제공된 참고자료에 명시적으로 명시되지 않은 내용을 추가하기 위해 독창적인 연구당신의 생각과 의견을 이용하여 주장을 한다면, 그것은 우리의 정책과 가이드라인에 부합하지 않고 되돌아갈 것이다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2019년 1월 24일 04:47 (UTC)[응답]

편집 자체가 명백히 반유대적인 것 같지는 않다.편집 요약은 그렇다.위키만5676 (대화) 04:12, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

넌 콘-아티스트처럼 보이지만!66.87.85.155 (토크)
우리가 누구지?주머니 안에 쥐가 있나?-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 04:37, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
NOTHERE 블록이 필요한 것 같아.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 05:02, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
IP의 한 손에는 논평이, 다른 한 손에는 광범위한 잘 소싱된 컨텐츠의 삭제 등, 사방이 좋지 않은 것처럼 보인다."출처가 지원하는 콘텐츠는 그대로 유지되어야 한다"는 이유로 많은 콘텐츠를 제거할 수 없다. 이 제거에는 국제통화기금(IMF)에서 파생된 대량의 데이터 테이블이 포함되며, 이는 분명 유통 통화, 외화 예금 등에 대한 신뢰할 수 있는 원천이다.나이튼드 (대화) 12시 34분, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

IP 사용자들은 36시간 동안 여기서 그들의 파괴적인 편집과 계속적인 미개한 논평 때문에 차단된다. 이제 그만이다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)06:08, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

그러나 (위키피디아는 반유대주의를 위한 플랫폼이 아니다)라는 말로 식탁을 없앤 것은 570d14nn0f7h3n0735원이었다.출처가 지원하는 콘텐츠만" 편집 요약본으로 남는다.-- DLOhcierkim (talk) 12:43, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답
이 사용자의 편집과 행위 여기에 대한 추가적인 토론(물론)-나는 편집자들 위에 IP사용자에 의해 남겨진 같은 무례한troll-like 지적을 하도록 할 것이 아닙니다. 우리 블록과 평이 단순히 나는 IP이용자에게 왜 그 행동에 주목해 추가되었다. 것으로 예상된다:-)~Oshwah~(이야기)(contribs)14:05, 1월 24일 20.19(CoordinatedUniversalTime)[답장]
또한, 누가 570d14nn0f7h3n0735원을 그들의 사용자 토크 페이지에 ANI 통지서를 남겼는가? ... :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)14:05, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[답글]
젠장! 됐어. 다른 하나는 잊고 있던 걸로부터 너무 많은 걸 얻었네 - DLOHCierkim (대화) 15:24, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
원본 콘텐츠를 원래 삭제한 것 같은 Trustbanker에게 통지.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 15:28, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그들은 같은 편집자라는 비난을 받고 있지만 나는 SPI가 접수되었다고 생각하지 않는다.2601:1C0:6D00:845:6CDA:320:FB33:BAE3 (대화) 22:03, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:MCAzenave/WPFOOTY

여러분 안녕하십니까?유감스럽게도 사용자 관련 토론을 보고/시작하기 위해 여기에 오셨습니다.MCAzenave위키백과 관련 편집 내용:위키프로젝트 축구 기사.처음 해보는 건데 잘못한 거 있으면 사과해.

MCAzenave는 2017년부터 편집자로 활동하며 칠레 축구와 관련된 다양한 협회 축구 기사를 지속적으로 편집해 왔다.WPFOOTY의 일부분이 편집되지 않았기 때문에 편집 내용은 환영하지만, 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 남겨 두지 않고 기사를 계속 추가하고 있다. - 내가 본 바로는, 편집 시 정확한 정보를 가진 외부 링크(Soccerway 및/또는 BDFA - 둘 다 신뢰할 수 있음)에 의존한다.MCAzenave는 이적 루머에 근거하여 상당히 편집된 것 같은데, 여기서 몇 가지 예를 들어보자.

→ 토비아스 피구에로아 (diff1)

→ 이반 산도발(칠레아의 축구선수) (디프2)

→ 마리아노 바비에리 (diff3)

가 돌아왔을 때 나는 그들의 토크 페이지요약 편집을 통해 연락했지만 전혀 응답이 없었다.이반 산도발 기사로 믿을 만한 출처를 물었더니 그들이 (일종의) 하나를 제공했다.나는 그것이 거의 거래가 완료되었다고 진술한 출처였기 때문에 약간 말한다. 그것은 내가 이미 나의 초기 되돌리기 편집 요약에서 그것이 충분하지 않다고 언급했었다.나는 정말로 가까운 것을 두고 바보 같은 편집 전쟁에 휘말리고 싶지 않았기 때문에 그 미끄럼틀을 놓아버렸다. (거래는 그 이후로 완료되었지만 내 요점은 그대로였다.)MCAzenave와 나의 문제는 한동안 이슈가 되었던 것 같다, 사용자:자이언트 스노우맨2017년 자사 토크 페이지를 통해 비소싱 콘텐츠(응답 없음)에 대해 사용자에게 연락했고, 크게 달라진 게 없어 보인다.

마지막으로, 나는 이 사용자가 나쁜 편집자라고 믿지 않는다고 말해야 한다.내가 언급했고 그들에게 언급했듯이, WPFOOTY의 칠레 쪽 편집이 확실히 필요하지만 나는 의도하지 않았더라도 그것이 파괴되고 있다고 느낀다.올바른 행동 방침이 무엇인지 잘 모르겠다.R96스킨너 (대화) 00:47, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]

R96Skinner, 만약 당신이 누군가 여기서 조치를 취하기를 원한다면, 당신은 이 편집자가 한 특정한 편집, 즉 당신이 파괴적이거나 귀찮다고 믿는 디프를 제공해야 한다.기사를 가리키는 것만으로는 충분하지 않다. 관리자들은 단지 링크를 클릭해서 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 확인하고 싶을 뿐이지 직접 검색하는 것은 아니다.너를 위해 더 많은 일을 하지만 그것은 더 많은 일을 하게 될 것이다.이 페이지에 있는 다른 보고서들 좀 봐.209.152.44.201 (대화) 01:56, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 고마워!R96스킨너 (대화) 02:11, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
훨씬 좋아! 209.152.44.201 (대화) 02:59, 2019년 1월 23일 (UTC)[응답]
R96Skinner - 이 토론에서 몇 가지 중요한 사항을 언급하고자 한다.
  • 첫째, "요약 편집"의 사용은 다른 편집자나 사용자와 연락하거나, 토론에 기여하거나, 다른 사용자에게 위키백과 정책의 위반이나 특정 위키백과 지침의 준수 불이행에 대해 경고하려는 시도로 간주되지 않는다.누군가 정책을 위반하거나 다른 방법으로 수정 및 해결해야 할 문제 또는 문제를 야기하는 경우, 당신은 항상 사용자에게 직접 연락해야 하며 매번 이러한 상황이 발생할 때마다 사용자에게 연락해야 한다.각 메시지에 대해 세심하고 서술적이어야 하며 사용자를 돕기 위한 모든 관련 링크(해당 편집에 대한 차이, 관련 정책 또는 가이드라인에 대한 링크, 기타 필요한 링크 등)를 포함하십시오.콘텐츠 분쟁을 해결할 때는 관련 토크 페이지 토론(활성화되지 않은 경우)을 시작하고, 관련 사용자를 ping하며, 토론을 가리키는 메시지로 후속 조치를 취해야 한다.위키피디아의 분쟁 해결 프로토콜에 설명된 대로 문제를 제기하는 것 외에도, 나중에 이와 같은 공지 게시판 토론을 시작할 수 있고, 모든 것을 보여주는 디프프 링크를 제공하여 다른 편집자와 관련된 반복적인 이슈를 쉽게 보고할 수 있도록 문서화 흔적을 만든다.연락해서 사용자에게 알리고, 문제를 토론하고, 대화하려는 당신의 시도는 소용이 없었다.
  • 둘째, 나는 이 사용자가 축구 주제 영역(특히 축구와 관련된 BLP 기사)에서 많은 편집을 한다고 본다.사용자의 기여도를 스폿 체크하는 것은 이 사용자가 자신의 편집을 지원하기 위해 참조를 추가하지 않는다는 것을 보여준다(내가 확인한 대부분은 기사의 infobox에 포함된 정보에 대한 변경사항이었다).추가되거나 변경되는 콘텐츠에 따라, BLP에 참조되지 않은 콘텐츠를 추가하는 것은 큰 금지 사항이다.다만, 당신이 제공한 디프는 사용자가 어제 편집한 것을 가리키지만, 다른 것들은 1월 13일에 다시 편집한 것을 가리킨다.그건 괜찮지만 (필요하거나 적용 가능한 경우) 행정 조치를 고려하기 위해서는 정책 위반을 반복적으로 보여주는 최근 또는 현재의 편집 사항의 다양성과 사용자와 대화하려는 시도를 볼 필요가 있다(나는 당신이 두 번의 별도 토론에서 직접 대화한 것을 보지만 강조가 증가하거나 끊어질 것이라는 경고는 보이지 않는다.'최종 경고'와 같은 사항).나는 또한 이 사용자가 대화 또는 사용자 대화 위키백과의 네임스페이스를 0번 수정했다는 것을 유념할 것이다. 그래서 분명히 여기서 의사소통하는데 실패했다는 것이다.좀 더 파보고 찾으면서 메모를 더 추가하겠지만, 그런 정보가 다음에 공급될 수 있다면 큰 도움이 될 것 같아.
내가 당신을 새것으로 찢거나, 찢어 버리거나, 아무것도 모르는 바보나 새 사용자처럼 대하거나, 당신을 난처하게 만들거나, 또는 그들이 보고되어야 할 때 문제나 정책 위반을 보고하는 것을 단념시키려 하는 것이 아니라는 것을 알고 있어. :-) 나는 단지 게시판에서 우리가 찾는 것이 무엇이며, 그것들이 왜 수입되고 있는지 정확히 설명하려고 하는 것뿐이야.그래서 앞으로 이와 같은 이슈나 분쟁에 직면할 경우 이를 이해하고 유념할 수 있을 것이다. :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 10:35, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
알았어, 오슈와위키피디아에서 5년 만에 처음으로 이용자 신고의 필요성을 알게 된 만큼 어떤 순서를 밟아야 할지 잘 몰랐다.내가 더 꼼꼼하게 일을 처리했어야 했어, 미안해!나는 되돌릴 때 사용자에게 통지하기 때문에 되돌릴 때 요약 편집은 괜찮다고 추정했지만, 그렇지 않기 때문에 나는 충분히 이해하고 미래에 대해 기억할 것이다.최근 몇 달 동안, 나는 내가 되돌릴 때마다 그들의 대화 페이지를 통해 사용자들에게 연락하기 시작했고, 그래서 우리는 서로 이해할 수 있다 - 나도 틀릴 경우를 대비해서.어쨌든, 시간을 내서 나에게 명확하게 설명해줘서 고마워 - 고마워.R96스킨너 (대화) 19:57, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
R96Skinner - 걱정하지 마십시오. 이것이 내가 시간을 들여 설명하고 도움을 주는 이유 입니다. :-) 가능하다면, 그리고 가능하다면, 이 사용자가 어디서 주문하지 않은 콘텐츠를 추가했는지, 그리고 어디서 노골적으로 문제가 있었는지를 명확하게 보여줄 수 있는 매우 최근의 편집 사항들을 가지고 있는가?편집해야 할 내용이 많다. 오늘이나 어제 사용자가 편집한 내용과 다른 부분을 찾아보고 목록을 제공하면 큰 도움이 될 것이다.알려줘 :-) ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:02, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

물론이지! 어제 이후로 수정은 없지만:

→ 23/01 - 산티아고 원더러스 - diff1 - 이달부터 내·외부를 나열하는 '2019 하계 이적'(diff2) 축구클럽 기사로 조금 전 코너를 추가했지만, 소스는 없다.They have done that for all other clubs in the Chilean Primera Division and Primera B de Chile, as seen over at Club Deportivo Universidad Católica (diff3), Club Universidad de Chile (diff4), Deportes Iquique (diff5), O'Higgins F.C. (diff6) and many others - none of which are sourced.

→ 23/01 - 아구스틴 파라 - diff7 - 아구스틴 파라 기사에 선수가 은퇴했지만 소싱은 하지 않았다고 추가했다.BDFA는 이미 외부 링크로 등록되어 있었지만 파라가 은퇴했거나 심지어 떠났다고는 말하지 않는다.

→ 23/01 - 호세 루이스 히메네스 - 디프8 - 그들의 편집에 따르면, 그는 현재 산티아고 모닝의 선수다.그러나 아직 출처가 남아 있지 않고 기사 자체에도 사커웨이나 BDFA가 외부 연결고리로 등재돼 있지도 않다.프란시스코 피냐(디프9)와 프란시스코 라라 우리베(디프10) (둘 다 23/01)에서도 비슷한 이야기가 나왔지만, 기사에 내역이 있었다.이적을 확인할 수 있는 링크들이 나열되어 있지만, 내가 호세 루이스 히메네즈에게 말한 것을 보면 우연의 일치인 것 같다.

→ 23/01 - Hugo Bascuhnan - diff11 - 위와 같으며, 소싱이 추가되지 않음 - 그들은 산티아고 모닝에 선수가 없는 BDFA에 의존하고 있는 것 같다.

→ 23/01 - Francisco Pizaro (축구 선수) - diff12 - 이 사용자의 잠재적 붕괴 징후일 가능성이 있음.선수가 산티아고 모닝에서 출발할 수 있는 출처도 없고, 2018년 8월 편집(diff13) 당시 선수 도착(이후 4차례 출연)도 없다.BDFA와 풋볼데이터베이스의 외부 연결은 NFT 링크가 있지만 어떤 외관도 명시하지 않고 있지만 클럽과 관련된 증거는 없다.

오슈와를 더 추가해야 한다면 그렇게 하겠다.

참고로, 이 사용자의 편집 내용을 살펴보던 중 사용자:듀르니디아즈의 무기한 블로킹이것은 내 입장에서 순수한 추측이지만, 그들이 같은 사용자일 가능성이 있는가?Durneydiave와 MCazenave는 둘 다 유사한 편집 이력과 경향을 가지고 있으며 상호작용이 거의 없다.단지 생각일 뿐이다.R96스킨너 (대화) 23:04, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

키드애드, 또.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

키드애드 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

이전 스레드.

나는 그들이 마르코스 쿠날라키스 ([71])와 제니퍼 시벨 뉴섬 ([72])에서 편집함으로써 1932년 이후의 미국 정치에서 그들의 주제 금지령을 위반했다는 이유로 막았다.

나는 그들이 그들의 차단과 금지를 혼동했다고 말할 것이라고 예상한다.만약 그들이 진심으로 그렇게 믿었다면, 왜 그들은 차단되지 않은 후에 정치를 피했을까, 아무도 눈치채지 못할개의 작은 편집으로 천천히 작업했을 뿐, 주제 금지의 가장자리에서 더 큰 편집으로 발전하기 전에, 마침내 정치에 관한분명한 기사들에 관여하게 되었을까?

이전에 "미국 정치와 관련된 어떤 페이지도 편집하지 말라"는 것을 이해하지 못한 그들의 실패는 능력이나 선의의 문제를 제기하기에 충분할 정도로 명백한 것이었다.미국 정치와 관련된 어떤 페이지도 편집하지 말아야 한다는 것이 명백할 수 없을 정도로 만들어진 그 시간 동안, 그것을 위반했다는 이유로 차단된 후에 천천히 그들의 주제 금지 구역으로 다시 몰래 들어가는 것은 정말로 선의의 행동을 취하기 어렵게 한다.

이안.thomson (대화) 21:31, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]

잠깐, 아니, 나는 그들이 정치인과 결혼한 정치 작가들이 어떻게든 "1932년 이후의 미국 정치와 관련된 어떤 페이지도 편집하지 말라"고 주장할 것이라고 본다.만약 그들이 여기에 성실하게 있다면, 그 때 능력은 문제가 된다.이안.thomson (대화) 21:34, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
애슐리 파인버그 페이지[73]를 건드리는 것도 상당히 노골적인 위반이다.그녀의 트윗과 칼럼은 MAGA 관중을 흥분시켰다.스누간스누간 (대화) 22:03, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
이 시점에서 정치 기자들은 물론 정치인의 가족, 정치 컨설턴트까지 모두 '정치'라는 넓은 제목에 속한다는 그들의 완전한 거부로 나는 그들로부터 선의와 역량을 모두 상정할 수 없게 된다.이안.thomson (대화) 22:18, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
좋은 블럭이야.2019년 1월 25일 미니애폴리스 23시 10분(UTC)[응답하라]
그렇다, 나는 8명의 편집자들이 그 AfD에 시간을 낭비했다는 것이 꽤 실망스럽다.TBANs의 희망은 편집자가 백과사전의 다른 부분에 계속 기고할 수 있도록 하면서 정확히 그런 종류의 혼란을 방지하는 것이다.그러나 그것은 편집자가 그 경계를 존중할 수 있고 존중할 수 있어야만 효과가 있다.실패하면 차단을 막는 길이다.이니스프리987 (대화) 23:34, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
솔직히 지난 모든 터무니없는 소리들에도 불구하고, 나는 그들이 3개월밖에 받지 못한 것이 행운이라고 생각한다.나는 다른 사건의 자세한 내용을 들여다볼 수는 없지만, 정치인의 파트너(또는 매우 가끔)가 되는 것에서 전적으로 발생하는 역할/제목을 이해하지 못하는 것은 그들이 여전히 그들의 주제 금지가 요구하는 것에 대한 가장 기본적인 이해가 부족하다는 것을 보여준다. (또는 그들은 하지만 단지 생각했을 뿐이다.)그들은 눈에 띄지 않게 탈출할 것이다.)닐 아인(토크) 10:32, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
아 그리고 이 편집에서, 편집자체는 (강력증 추가)[74] " 영향력 있는 정치 평론가컨설턴트모리스 아내(1980-)"에서 "정치 컨설턴트 시사평론가 모리스와 결혼했다"로 바뀐 내용을 포함했다.실제 편집은 다른 사람이 만들면 괜찮은 것 같지만, 정치적 금지에도 불구하고, 그리고 다른 것들 에서도 "1932년 이후의 미국 정치에 어떤 식으로든 영향을 미치는 비정치적인 페이지에 대한 편집은 없다"는 말을 들은 그들은 어쩐지 "정치적"이 편집의 일부인 곳에서 편집하는 것이 괜찮다고 생각했다.닐 아인(토크) 10:42, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
BTW, 이걸 읽으면 키드애드.만약 당신이 그들의 정치적 배우자를 어떻게 나열할 것인가와 같은 문제나 정치인과의 관계에서 비롯된 그들의 직함/역할을 멀리한다면, 당신은 그 기사들 중 어떤 것도 편집할 수 있다고 말하는 것은 아니라고 생각한다.내 요점은 그렇지 않았다면 받아들일 수 없었을 것이라는 것이 아니라, 오히려 그 기사들을 편집하는 것이 분명히 구두쇠였다는 것을 깨닫지 못했다 하더라도, 당신이 실제로 편집을 할 때 당신은 그것이 사실이라는 것을 깨달았어야 했다.닐 아인(대화) 10:53, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

법적조치위협

사용자:12.32.207.164 시작.그들은 지난주에도 이미 그것에 대해 경고를 받았어, 겉보기에도. (그리고 막 탈피한 죄로 잠깐 벗어났어.)———SerialNumber54129 08:43, 2019년 1월 28일(UTC)[응답]

응, 내 토크 페이지에서 봤어.어쨌든 그것은 차단 회피였기 때문에 나는 편집자를 다시 가두었다.지난주부터 처음 31시간 블록이 다소 짧은 것 같고, 108.178.78.26에 있는 플로켄빔의 관련 블록이 수개월이라 이번에 한 달 동안 막았다.만약 내가 과민반응하고 있다고 생각하는 사람이 있다면, 어서 블록을 적당한 것으로 줄여라.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 10:07, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

토크:에미레이트 스타디움

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

토크:에미레이트 스타디움에서 이러한 명백한 법적 위협을 우연히 만나 보십시오.나는 경쟁 축구팬의 빈약한 트롤일 수도 있다고 의심하지만 나는 영국이 아닌 축구팬들에 의해 잘못 이해되고 있는 것을 볼 수 있다. E god Save the Queen! (토크) 09:53, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답하라]

@E의 C: 학교 IP니까 그냥 걸어다니기만 해. 어쨌든 차단했어.자이언트 스노우맨 10:00, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

크리스텍스284

이 사용자와 문제가 있어.그녀는 영어를 잘 이해하지 못하고 내가 편집한 내용을 계속 한 페이지에 되짚어 본다. 왜냐하면 그녀는 드래곤 부스터나 뿌까 같은 쇼는 디즈니에서 제작하지 않을 때 제작한다고 생각하기 때문이다.반달리즘에 대항해 행정관에게 보고하려고 했지만 거절당했어굳이 그녀의 토크 페이지로 가지 마라, 그녀가 반론을 할 것이기 때문이다.그녀는 또한 개인적으로도 나를 공격했다.Luigitehplumber (대화) 19:29, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

@LTPHarry: 문제 편집을 위해 difs를 제공하면 처리 속도가 빨라지고 도움이 된다.---- DLOhcierkim (talk) 19:40, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자에게 이 논의를 통지함.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 19:46, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
User_talk:시리즈를 배포한 LTPHarry#disney는 OP에 대한 Chrisx284의 분노에 대한 통찰력을 제공한다.그가 틀렸다고 말했을 때, LTPharry는 그녀에게 "그렇지만"이라고 말했다.이쯤 되면 묵직한 경고가 득보다 실이 많았던 것 같다.-- Dlohcierkim (대화) 19:52, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
그의 토크페이지에 실린 그녀의 답변은 자신이 생각하는 것에 대한 OP의 주장과 상반된다.- DLOhcierkim (talk) 19:54, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
(편집 갈등) 사용자가 편집 전쟁을 위해 블랙 카이트에 의해 차단된 것 같다. --atcovi(토크 - 기여) 19:56, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 48시간 동안 차단했어(드루시에르킴의 댓글은 내가 가서 올린 거야)그들은 여러 사람들과 편집전을 벌이고 있고 멈추기를 원하지 않는 것 같으며, 또한 그들은 처음에 페이지를 반보호하게 만든 동일한 190.x.x.x IP인 것처럼 보인다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 19:57, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

오... IP?이 사용자는 블록 중에 양말 퍼펫을 만들 수 있다.이 사용자의 패턴에 따르는 새로운 IP 편집이 있는지 반보호 페이지를 주시하는 것이 좋다.Atcovi (토크 - 기여) 20:02, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]

당신이 옳을 때도 편집은 항상 틀린다.-- DLOhcierkim (대화) 20:18, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그녀는 방금 또 다른 위키에서 나를 괴롭히기 위해 돌아갔고, 그것은 모두 내 잘못이라고 말했다.네가 봤다면, 나는 그녀에게 이유를 알려주려고 했지만 그녀는 들으려 하지 않았다.Luigitehplumber (대화) 21:52, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
LTPHarry - 어떤 프로젝트?어디서? 네가 말한 그 지속적인 괴롭힘에 대해 다른 것을 줄 수 있니?~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2019년 1월 24일 23:16 (UTC)[응답]
나도 그랬으면 좋겠는데, 그녀가 위키(FANDOM을 통해 내가 운영하는 댓글)로 보내준 댓글을 지워서 미안해.내가 삭제하지 않았다면 너에게 링크를 보냈을 거야.그녀가 정말 그런 말을 했다고 믿어줘.Luigitehplumber (대화) 23:22, 2019년 1월 24일 (UTC)[응답]
위키피디아에서만 당신은 이것과 같은 올캡 2개 국어의 인신공격[75]을 읽을 수 있다. 요약하자면:롤리 폴리 올리에디즈니가 만들었소. #%^! 그 기호들은 당신이 이해하지 못할 경우에 대비한 나쁜 단어들이다! ?! ?! ? 05:19, 2019년 1월 25일 (UTC)[답글]
나는 이것이 WP에 의한 변명의 블록으로 가야 한다고 생각한다.여기 말고.그래도 내 의견이야.A 돌고래 (squeek?) 2019년 1월 25일 16시 2분 (UTC)[응답]

브라이언파워(토크 · 기여)는 이상한 댓글이라고 생각했던 켈리의 나이와 이미지반영하기 위해 위키백과에서 편집, 업데이트한 사진과 장르(2019-01-25T00:56:53)로 편집을 시작했지만, 새로운 사진을 반영하는 것으로 '이미지'를 용서했다.하지만, 그녀가 수상 후보로 지명된 기독교 음악 장르의 제거가 걱정되었다.나는 사진을 남겨두고 장르를 복원했고 브라이언파워를 환영한 후 잠재적인 CoI에 대해 경고했다.후에, "Early Life"에 잘 배치될 그녀의 곡을 쓰는 것에 대한 불필요한 정보를 제거했다. 우리는 그녀의 위키를 가능한 한 일관성 있게 만들고 싶었다.(2019-01-25T17:52:28)은 문제가 많다.첫째, 나는 "우리" 부분에 관심이 있고 둘째로 잠재된 WP:그것이 "그녀" 위키라고 자평하지만 (그녀에 대한 위키 엔트리로도 해석될 수 있다고 확신하지만) 이것은 분명 어떤 종류의 관리자나 핸들러일 것이다.적어도 주제 금지를 요청하고, 영어 프로젝트에 대한 전면 금지는 아니더라도 기사의 토크 페이지를 통해 모든 편집 요청을 한다.

피사체가 "오랫동안 이전 장르에서 자신을 제거했다"는 주장을 다루는 것은 피사체의 경력 전체를 반영하기 위한 것이기 때문에 중요하지 않다.우리는 아티스트가 현재 목표 관객들에게 더 입맛을 돋우도록 하기 위해 콘텐츠를 제거하지 않는다: 그것이 바로 프레스 키트 같은 것이다.새로운 콘텐츠를 추가하는 것은 항상 허용되지만, 더 이상 아티스트의 이미지에 맞지 않기 때문에 오래된 콘텐츠를 제거하는 것은 용납할 수 없다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 2019년 1월 25일 18:16 (UTC)[응답]

기사토크 페이지에 대한 토론을 시작하셨나요?이는 ANI에서 도움을 구하는 대신 다음 단계다. 2601:1C0:6D00:845:F040:DB16:1AD5:EDAB (대화) 06:44, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Kintetsubuffalo "템플릿이 아니므로" 경고

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

는 최근에 User:Kintetsubuffalo의 몇 가지 공지되지 않은 편집 내용을 되돌렸다.나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 그들이 WP를 따라야 한다는 것을 정중히 알리려고 노력했다.아무데도 못 가는 FIES.하지만 그게 날 여기로 데려온 게 아니야나는 호기심이 생겨 최근 편집된 역사에 기웃거렸고 이 게시판에서 킨테츠부팔로가 4단계 반달리즘 경고문 사용을 금지한 이전 사건을 발견했다.적어도 나에게는 이 금지에 대한 지원의 요약은 그것이 잠재적으로 잠재적인 새로운 편집자들을 몰아낼 수 있다는 것으로 보인다.그 금지령 이후, 그는 이런 저런 경고, 그리고 아마도 내가 어떤 패턴을 보였을 때 내가 찾는 것을 멈춘 다른 경고들을 남겼다.이들 모두는 다음과 같이 진술함으로써 불신임을 전제로 한다.

"여기 있는 몇몇 사람들은 당신이 위키백과에서 어떤 식으로든 가치가 있다고 믿는다.."

그것은 그들이 가치가 없다는 것을 암시한다.이는 이전 결정과 상충되는 것으로 보이며 문제의 연속이다.라이프모티브 (대화) 06:27, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 메시지와 함께 보는 주요 문제는 IP가 "여기 있는 몇몇 사람들은 당신이 위키피디아에 어떤 식으로든 가치가 있다고 믿기 때문에 이것은 템플릿이 아니다"라고 절대 이해하지 못할 것이라는 점이다. 즉, 실제로 유용한 메시지를 남기기 보다는 템플리트를 금지한 그의 좌절감을 표출하는 것이다.(그런데 IP의 편집은 반달리즘이라기보다는 편집전쟁에 가까운 것처럼 보인다.) -- ♥♥♣ ♠ 06:39, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
원래의 금지 사항을 검토한 후, 나는 그가 "해당되는 행동을 직접적으로 다룬다"는 경고에 대해 이 언어를 사용한다고 본다.적어도 내가 지금 그에게서 본 경고에서 나타난 것은 그것들이 적절하지 않고 (최소한의 말을 하기에는) 사소한 세부사항도 알려주지 않기 때문에 경고들이 "직접적으로[어드레싱"하지 않는다는 것이다.Leitmotiv (대화) 07:15, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
템플릿 경고는 아니지만, 전체 메시지의 언어는 다음 사항에 관한 것이다.나는 너의 반달리즘을 되돌렸다. 그것은 네가 막을 수 있고 막아야 한다. 여기 몇몇은 당신이 위키피디아에게 어떤 식으로든 귀중하다고 믿고 있기 때문에 이것은 템플릿이 아니다.편집자는 통지를 받았으나 통지(및 이전 대화 페이지에서 논의하려고 했던 시도)를 삭제했다.[76] 검은 연을 핑잉. ?! 2019년 1월 27일 07:28 (UTC)[응답]
킨테츠부팔로는 반달리즘 템플릿 사용에 대한 편집 제한을 받지만 다음과 같은 다른 제한이 있다.
"그는 다른 사용자들에게 경고할 수도 있지만, 그의 경고가 그가 직접 입력하는 경우에만, 문제의 행동을 직접적으로 언급할 수 있다."강조가 더해졌다.
킨테츠부팔로가 동일한 경고를 남길 때, 이 편집자가 메모리에서 오려 붙이거나, 로테 언어를 타이핑하는 것은 아무런 차이가 없다.이것은 기능적으로 템플리트 경고와 같다.이러한 경고는 특정 기사나 특정 편집을 언급하지 않기 때문에, 이러한 통조림 경고는 "해당되는 행동을 직접적으로 다루어야 한다"는 요건을 위반한다.따라서, 나는 지역사회가 이제 좀 더 구체적인 편집 제한을 만들고 동의해야 한다고 믿는다.아마도 가장 직접적인 해결책은 무기한 차단일 것이고, 그 결과는 지난 토론에서 여러 편집자들의 지지를 받았지만, 나는 다른 선택지에 열려 있다.컬렌렛328 07:31, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답]
Kintetsubuffalo는 분명히 그 제한의 정신과 이성을 의도적으로 회피하고 있고, 분명히 그 첫 번째 경고에서 너무 공격적이고, 의도적으로 뾰족한 방법으로 그것을 하고 있다.그러한 경고들은 지역사회에 손가락질을 하고 있으며 노골적으로 새 편집자들이 이 문제를 이해하도록 돕지 않으려고 애쓰고 있다. 즉, 4단계 경고보다 더 심각하다.나는 (킨테츠부팔로가 위키피디아의 협력적이고 비공격적인 접근을 받아들일 것이라는 것을 분명히 하는 진정한 호소를 보게 되면 해제될 수 있는) 변명의 블록이 가는 길이라는 데 동의한다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 07:44, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
킨테츠부팔로는 특히 스카우트 관련 기사 분야에서 WP에 큰 기여를 했기 때문에 나는 변명의 블록이 마음에 들지 않는다.나는 그에게 이메일을 주고받았다.제발 이 일로 서두르지 마십시오. --Bduke (대화) 08:03, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
@Bduke: 나는 KB가 여기 있는 다른 편집자와 똑같이 취급될 것이라고 확신한다.하지만, 그들과 오프위키에 대해 토론하기 보다는, 당신은 그들에게 이 토론에 참여하라고 조언할 수도 있다.이는 해당 차단을 방지하는 몇 안 되는 방법 중 하나일 수 있다.———SerialNumber54129 08:12, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[응답]
반면에, 신경 쓰지 마; 분명히 예의와 동료의식은 "엄청난" 거야.-——SerialNumber54129 13:01, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[응답]
그의 일부 편집이 유용하다는 것은 의심의 여지가 없다.그러나 그의 편집과 공격적인 경고에 대한 일반적인 언급에 의해 그가 그것에 대해 어떻게 대처하는지는 고쳐질 필요가 있다.그것들은 대단한 기여가 아니다.Leitmotiv (대화) 08:07, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
+1. BTW: 몇 년 전 비슷한 행동 때문에 커먼즈에서 차단당하기도 했다. --Leyo 08:39, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
전반적인 문제는 KB가 편집 요약을 생략하거나, 기지가 부족한 공격적이고 과도한 경고를 하거나, 단순히 그의 토크 페이지처럼 의사소통을 완전히 자제함으로써, 제대로 의사소통하거나 의사소통을 하지 못하는 것 같다.Leitmotiv (대화) 21:29, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 증거를 보면, 나는 블록이 순서대로 되어 있다는 것에 동의할 수 있다.우리는 여기에 서명이나 비누 상자 같은 것을 사용하는 것이 너무 많은데, 이것은 분명히 같은 범주에 속한다.우리는 백과사전을 짓기 위해 이곳에 온 것이지, 마땅히 받아야 할 제재에 대해 사소한 점을 지적하는 것이 아니다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 13분 30초, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 원래 제재를 한 행정관이었는데 KB의 편집에 눈독을 들이지 않아 여기에 공을 떨어뜨린 것을 인정한다.만약 내가 IP들에게 이런 경고를 보았다면, 나는 훨씬 더 일찍 그를 차단했을 것이다 - 그들은, Boing!이 위에서 말한 것처럼, 기본적으로 커뮤니티에 손가락을 갖다 대었다.앞으로 몇 시간 안에 그렇게 올리지 않을 타당한 이유가 없는 한(나는 잠시 AFK로 있을 것이고 차단하고 도망치고 싶지 않다) 나는 이제 그렇게 할 작정이다.분명히, 만약 다른 행정관이 그 사이에 조치를 취하기를 원한다면, 그것은 괜찮다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 13:57, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 서포트 서약 블록.3개월 전 ANI 실전에서 키네츠부팔로가 제재에 저항하는 사람의 모든 징후를 가지고 있다고 말했었죠그래서 우리는 여기에 있다.앞의 실에서 말한 바와 같이 편집자 유임을 위해서는 그를 중지시켜야 한다.우리는 다시 여기에 있고, 그래서 지금 일어나야 한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 14:13, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 스레드가 커짐에 따라 User:Kintetsubuffalo는 여기서 설명을 하지 않는 동안 편집을 계속했다는 점에 유의하십시오.이 특이한 행동의 용어는 "ANI 독감"이다. 여기서 보도된 편집자는 그들의 행동에 대한 큰 공감대가 형성되는 것을 완전히 무시하고 있다.깨어났어.그들이 무기한으로 막히는지 아닌지는 기정사실처럼 보인다; 적어도 그들이 이 토론에 기여하겠다고 약속하기 전까지는 무기한 차단된 것은 논란의 여지가 없을 만큼 집 청소 편집으로 간주될 수 있다.2600:1700:B7A1:9A30:E5C3:DE64:E2F2:E776 (대화) 16:39, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
    참고로 ANI 독감은 프로젝트에서 다른 곳에서 계속 편집하는 사람이 아니라 ANI 스레드의 개방과 완전히 동시에 편집을 중단하는 사람을 가리킨다는 점을 정정해 달라고 간청한다.EEng 07:44, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Independence Block 반대 - 왜 그것이 10개 항의 위키트랜스포메이션 중 2개 정도인 소수의 비열한 반달성 경고에 대한 테이블 위에 있는지 확실하지 않다.만약 그가 반달들에게 경고를 할 거라면 KB는 저격수와 위협을 차단할 필요가 있다.이 모든 게 점수 안착착한 것 같은...카라이트 (대화) 2019년 1월 27일 18:23 (UTC)[응답]
@Carrite: 몇 달 전의 마지막 ANI에 비추어 볼 때, 몇 개월이 아닌 많은 평균적이고 많은 레벨 4 경고 템플릿이 사용되었고, 그 결과 이 편집자는 레벨 4 경고 템플릿(위 Cullen이 설명한 제한 사항 포함)을 사용하지 못하게 되었고, 현재도 "mean"을 사용하고 있는 편집자에 비추어볼 때, 쿠키 커터 일반적 전쟁을 사용한다.Nings (Level 4 템플릿과 같은 것, 정말) 그리고 거기에 덧붙여 "그래서 이것은 템플릿이 아니다"라고 말하는 것은 "F U"라고 말하는 긴 방법이다. 만약 변명의 블록이 아니라면, 당신은 여기서 어떤 치료법을 제안하겠는가?또 다른 Tban은 분명히 작동하지 않을 것이다. 왜냐하면 편집자는 그들이 편지를 따르겠지만 정신을 위반할 것이라는 것을 증명했기 때문이다.편집자는 지역 사회와 관계를 맺지 않을 것이다.신참들의 독설은 계속되도록 놔둘 수 없다.그럼 커뮤니티의 선택지는? ! 18:59, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답하라]
만약 그가 기꺼이 할 준비가 되어 있는 것처럼 보이는 주제 금지 서한을 따르려고 한다면, 문제는 제재 조건만큼 편집자에게 있지 않다.내가 보여줄게.카라이트 (대화)19:10, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 현재의 제약이 무엇을 의미하고 무엇을 예방해야 하는지를 알고 있으며, 만일 그가 부모에게 반항하는 버릇없는 아이처럼 고의적으로 그 편지의 글자만을 따르며 지역사회에 손가락 하나 까딱하지 않을 것을 고집한다면, 문제는 편집자에게 있다. 그리고 나는 왜 우리가 유행하기 위해 거꾸로 구부려야 하는지 모르겠다.그런 의도적인 유치함에 r.보잉! 제베디(토크) 19:35, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

프로포즈

반달 경고에 대한 일련의 불친절함 때문에, 킨테츠부펄로는 반달리즘이나 잘못된 편집과 관련된 어떤 종류의 토크 페이지 경고도 남기는 것을 금지하고 있다.반달리즘은 편집 요약의 변경에 대해 논포인트적이고 공격적이지 않은 표기법으로 조용히 제거되어야 한다.반달 경고와 관련하여 더 이상 비침습성은 증가하는 블록에 충족될 것이다.카라이트 (대화)19:10, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 지원 - 제안자로서.카라이트 (대화)19:10, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 토크 페이지 메시지와 경고는 수신자와 커뮤니티 모두에게 유용하기 때문에 반대한다; 이 제안은 기본적으로 나쁜 관행을 필요로 한다.또한 편집자가 병신처럼 굴지 않고 다른 편집자에게 메시지를 남기지 않으려 한다면, 우리는 왜 어떤 식으로든 그것을 탐닉하거나 용인할 것인가?시민성은 기둥이다. 선택사항이 아니다. ?! 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • (충돌 편집) 코멘트 이것은 실제로 그들의 커뮤니케이션을 감소시킬 수 있다. 그리고 당신이 방금 그것들을 되돌렸을 때 편집자들과 이야기하는 것은 단지 유용한 것이 아니다. 그것은 종종 정책에 의해 의무화된다.그리고 정책 얘기가 나와서 말인데, 자신의 반전을 논하지 않는 것은 거의 민사적인 것이 아니다.미안하지만, Carrite는 우리가 믿을 수 없는 편집자가 있는 것 같다. (아마 위에 언급된 "감소"로 표시됨) 그리고 나는 그것이 우리의 표준 운영 절차에 어떻게 도움이 되는지 잘 모르겠다.———SerialNumber54129 19:26, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[응답]
  • 반대한다. 우리는 편집자들이 성가신 아이처럼 미시적으로 관리될 필요 없이 성숙한 태도로 행동하고 공동체가 원하는 것을 준수하기를 기대해야 한다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 19:32, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 이것은 그들이 동의하지 않는 사람들과 효과적으로 의사소통하는 만성적인 실패인 근본적인 문제를 다루지 않는다.컬렌328 20:09, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답]
  • 반대한다. 이 제안은 이 문제의 배경과 근본적인 문제를 이해하지 못한다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 21:03, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 A 해결책이 필요하지만, 이것은 상황을 더 악화시킬 것이다.
대신에 나는 그들이 공공 기물 파손 행위를 완전히 되돌리는 것을 금지할 것을 제안한다.그들은 이것을 할 수 있는 유일한 편집자가 아니다. 그리고 만약 특별한 어떤 것이 터무니없다면 그들은 여전히 다른 편집자에게 그들을 대신해서 그것을 하도록 통보할 수 있다.앤디 딩글리 (토크) 21:17, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 사용자가 편집 내용을 취소하거나 되돌리는 것을 방지하지 않는 한 반대하지 마십시오(정말 이상해 보인다).지적했듯이 이 제안은 부적절한 경고의 문제를 해결하지 못한다.이제 TBAN의 정신을 분명히 회피하고 있는 편집자를 어떻게 할 것인가에 대한 짧은 토론으로 돌아갈 수 있을까 — Mets (토크 • 기여) 21:26, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)의해 추가서명되지 않은 코멘트 앞.
    • 앤디 딩리에게 악의는 없었어나는 그와 함께 있을 때 이미 위의 글을 썼었다.미터 (토크) 21:34, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 우리는 많은 편집자들이 공공 기물 파손 행위를 되돌리는 것을 금지한다.보통은 더 완전한 금지의 일부분이다.아직 선택사항이야.앤디 딩리 (대화) 22:15, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

차단됨

  • 사용자: 에 대한 컨센서스가 무엇이었는지 보기 위해, 앞서 말한 대로 조치를 취하는 것을 보류했다.Carrite의 제안.킨테츠부팔로가 (a) 이전 ANI의 결과를 무시한 채 IP에 비꼬는 "경고"를 게시함으로써 그것을 회피했다는 상당히 분명한 공감대가 있다. (b) 이전 제재에 대해 많은 사람들이 "손가락을 치켜세우는 것"이라고 말했기 때문이다. (c) 이전 제재에 대해 "손가락을 치켜드는 것"이 여기나 그들의 대화 페이지에서 논의에 응답하지 못했고, (c) 뚜렷한 부족함을 보였기 때문이다.협업적 행동(사용자 대화 페이지의 맨 위에 있는 배너)하지만, 무기한 차단해야 한다는 일부의 요구는 있지만, 나는 이것에 대해 압도적으로 동의한다고 보지 않는다; 하지만 확실히 "무엇을 해야 한다"는 의견의 일치가 있다.따라서 나는 향후 본래의 제재에 따르지 않거나 협력적으로 행동하지 않는 일반적 실패가 더 긴(또는 무기한) 블록에 부딪힐 수 있다는 주의와 함께 한 달 동안 차단해 왔다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 22:13, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 그 결과가 슬프다는 것을 덧붙이고 싶다(위키피디아 150위 편집자) 그러나 불행히도 지금 이 시점에서 필요하다.나는 정말로 휴식이 그에게 반성할 시간을 주길 바란다.Leitmotiv (대화) 22:30, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

부록

위키피디아에서 이 사건에 대한 실마리는 "Kintetsubuffalo at ANI." 카라이트 (토크) 16:31, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답하라]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

2019 슈퍼카 챔피언십

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

2019 슈퍼카스 챔피언십에서 IP들의 끊임없는 편집 전쟁, 편집 요약에서 '그것은 그렇다'와 '그렇지 않다'를 말하는 것 이외에는 토론하려는 시도가 없었다.[77][78][79][80][81][82] 크릭12 (대화) 06:12, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

일주일 동안 잘못된 버전을 보호했다.스티브 스미스 (토크) 07:05, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 리스산타나300

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

최종 경고 후 계속 미참조 BLP 내용 추가. --Ronz (대화) 18:53, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

3일 동안 차단됨.스티브 스미스 (토크) 07:10, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

"열대"에서 대화 페이지를 사용할 수 없음

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

"열대성년" 기사는 보호받지 못하지만, 금지된 사용자의 오랜 편집 이력으로 인해 해당 토크 페이지는 보호되고 있다.이제 새로운 IP인 213.48.233.51(토크 · 기여)은 왜곡된 편집을 하고, 이전의 편집 요약을 잘못 전달하며, 편집 요약에서 "토크 페이지는 보호되고 있기 때문에 사용할 수 없다" 불평하고 있다.요약 편집에 의한 논쟁과 끊임없는 변화는 참을 수 없다.이건 멈춰야 해.Jc3s5h (대화) 16:13, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

WP:신뢰할 수 있다고 가정한다.IMO, 첫 번째 단계는 토크 페이지를 보호하지 않는 것이어야 한다.[처음에는 절대 무한 블록을 가져서는 안 되는, 12개월이라도 극단적이어야 한다.애논 편집자는 적어도 편집 요약에 의해 부과되는 엄격함 없이 자신의 사례를 제시할 기회를 주어야 한다.제안된 텍스트가 잘못될 수 있는 허튼소리라는 것이 명백해진 경우에만 블록을 요청할 수 있는 확실한 근거가 있다.[편집자가 임시 IP 주소 할당을 하는 ISP를 사용하는 것 같기 때문에 쉽지 않을 것이다.]--존 메이너드 프리드먼 (토크) 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) 16:35 [응답]
(EC) 보호되지 않은 대화 페이지를 만들 수 있을까?나는 네가 어떤 편집자에 대해 말하는지 알 것 같아. 그리고 한 가지 문제는 선의의 사람들이 그들이 누구인지 알지 못하게 그들을 끌어들이는 거라고 생각해.이것은 내가 아는 사람들만이 자주 찾는 페이지에서 덜 가능성이 있다고 가정한다.이게 안 되면 단순히 기사를 보호하는 게 더 나을지 궁금하다.나는 사소한 편집 등 그리고 때로는 더 많은 주요 편집에 대해 토론할 필요가 없다는 것에 감사하지만, 편집자들이 변화를 만들 수는 있지만, 그것들을 토론할 수 없다면, 그것은 항상 그들이 할 가능성이 있고 문제가 있어 보인다.닐 아인(토크) 16:45, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 IP 에디터들을 수용하기 위해 노력하며, 전체적으로 효과가 있는 것 같다.하지만 이 글과 토크 페이지에는 효과가 없었다.아마도 우리는 IP 편집자에게 이 기사의 과거 남용 때문에, 그리고 끊임없이 금지를 회피하는 금지된 사용자의 토크 페이지 때문에, 토크 페이지에서 편집에 대해 논의할 계정을 만들어야 할 것이라고 설명해야 할 것이다.Jc3s5h (대화) 16:54, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
토크 페이지 아카이브를 읽으면서, 나는 이것에는 오랜 역사가 있다는 것을 깨달았고, 그래서 나는 나의 개입을 후회하지만 단지 단지 단지 정당하게만 생각한다.토크 페이지가 무한정 보호되는 것을 본 것은 무모한 반응이었지만 메인 스페이스는 열려 있었다!그것은 내게는 혐오스러운 일이다.에 wp는 어떻게 되는가:의사소통이 제대로 되려면?열대해를 무한정 보호하되, 토크 페이지 블록은 소멸하고 필요시 정해진 시간 동안 갱신할 것을 강력히 제안한다. --존 메이나드 프리드먼 (토크) 17:03, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 사람들에게 계정을 만들도록 강요하는 것은 프로젝트의 기본 원칙에 어긋난다.이 기사는 보호될 수 있고("집 앞"인 경우), 익명 편집을 허용하기 위해 해당 대화 페이지는 보호되지 않아야 하며, V(X)fC에 대해서는 WP를 통해 확인할 수 있다.BMB 및 WP:반보호 기간(짧은 시간, 매우 일시적)에 대한 거부.이틀에 한번 꼴로 일어나는 리프데스크.그러나 이것은 훨씬 더 많은 것을 보증할 만큼 충분히 주목받는 페이지는 아니다: 토크 페이지의 마지막 500개 편집은 2001년으로 거슬러 올라간다.———SerialNumber54129 17:09, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[응답]
이력을 보면 어느 정도 보호가 필요했지만(당시 편집률이 과도했다) 사용자:Jayron32는 보호할 때 잘못 읽었다.그 페이지는 사실 1년 동안 보호되지 않았다.[83] 그러므로 예, 단기적인 보호를 시도해 보는 것이 아마도 더 나을 것이다.물론 그 양말이 이 토론을 인지하고 있고 기회를 보아 방해할 가능성도 있지만 우리는 그저 최선의 것을 바라야 할 것이다.닐 아인(토크) 17:38, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
네가 그것을 잘못 읽었나 봐.사전 보호는 2017년 1월 시작돼 1년으로 정해졌다.2018년 1월 만료된 지 몇 분 만에 VXFC가 다시 편집을 시작했다. --Jayron32 12:13, 2019년 1월 28일(UTC)[응답]
나는 그들이 알고 있다고 믿는다, 그렇다.페이지의 이 섹션을 비교해 보십시오. 토론이 끝날 무렵.@Favonian ping:비쇼넨탈크 19:33, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[답답하다]
그들은 확실히 그러하며, 토론 페이지가 보호되지 않을 때, 아마도 필러가 무너지지 않도록 해야 하기 때문에, 끝없는 세수-린-반복 주기가 다시 시작된다.후자!파보니아어 (토크) 20:20, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
관리자 :p :) ———SerialNumber54129 20:45, 2019년 1월 27일(UTC)[답글]
  • 고정 페이지 비보호, 즐거운 시간 보내세요! --Jayron32 12:13, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

법적 위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 편집자는 법적 위협을 가했다.너로 두지 마.골든링 (토크) 14:36, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자가 다음 [84] 편집 내용을 참조하십시오.제이 베스티유사용자는 양말 인형뽑기 때문에 베레안 헌터에게 외설되었다.멜코스 (대화) 14:01, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

법적인 위협은 분명하지만, 그를 추행하는 것 에 우리가 정확히 무엇을 하기를 원하는가?골든링 (토크) 14:06, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
하선해줘야겠어EENG 14:23, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
킬홀딩?비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 14:40, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 이 실 전체를 위키피디아의 사람을 잡아먹는 호랑이 공동체에 대한 공격으로 본다고 말하고 싶다.감사합니다.두무지드 (대화) 14:44, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
호랑이도 좋지만 마가렛 킨의 그림으로 장식된 방에서 로드 맥쿠엔의 음악을 들으며 타르와 피처링, 드로잉과 쿼터링, 혹은 마담 블라바츠키의 수집된 작품을 읽도록 강요하는 것은 어떨까?비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 14:48, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

미안하지만, 나는 큰 WP가 아니다.ANI 사용자, 아마도 나는 좀 더 구체적이거나 다른 포럼을 이용했어야 했지만, 그 이후로 토크 페이지 접속을 취소하는 것은 좋은 생각이었던 것 같다.건배, 멜쿠스 (대화) 22:09, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

브렌트 알덴 프로모션 다시 시작

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

앞서 레인지블록 for Meg Mahu?(2018년 1월)와 브렌트 알덴 프로모션(2017년 12월)에서 설명한 레인지블록 필요성에 대해 최근 이 사람의 편집 노력을 본 적이 있다.그들은 아래에 나열된 IP를 사용하고 있다.브링크스터넷 (대화) 22:44, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

  • IPV4 주소는 쉽고, 반달리즘 말고는 거기서 오는 게 없어서 3개월 동안 레인지 차단했어.IPv6은 더 어렵다 - 그것은 큰 범위다, 모든 SPRINT 광대역 (그것은 /43) - 지난 며칠 동안의 모든 것이 반달이지만, 많은 것은 아니지만, 이전에 편집된 다른 것들이 있다.개별적으로 차단할 수도 있지만 다른 걸로 다시 돌아올 겁니다/43을 일주일 동안만 막았다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 12시 48분, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

정적 IP 24.51.244.155에 의한 반달리즘

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

24.51.244.155 (토크 · 기여) 학교에 속할 가능성이 가장 높은 위키백과 파괴에만 사용되는 고정 IP로, 장기적인 블록이 필요하다고 생각한다. --Johannes Maximilian (토크) 16:07, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

폴리레신 - 변경 이유 메시지에 모욕당하는 것을 금지하는 규칙이 있는가?

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 그것이 실제로 어떤 물질에 대해 말하고 있는지에 대한 화학적, 법적 정의 없이 꽤 나쁘게 쓰여진 기사를 개선하려고 노력했다 - 폴리레신사용자:스모크풋이 와서 "아이 같은 글"이라는 메시지를 남기는데, 대부분 이전 작가들을 모욕해도 상당히 무례해 보이는 (어쨌든 그렇게 믿고 싶다) 하지만 나 자신 또한 그렇다.

그런 다음 아무 쓸모도 없이 인트로 전체를 닦아내십시오[85].

특히 나쁘게 보이는 것은, 예를 들어, '플라스틱'으로 만들어진 항목과 별도로 나열되어 있지만, 규제 문서와 이를 판매하는 사람들(소매업자/제조업자)이 같은 용어를 사용한다는 사실처럼, 중요한 점을 전혀 저장하려고 애쓰지 않고 전체 단락을 삭제해도 괜찮다는 생각일 뿐이다.평균 염화비닐은 때때로 (그것의 인용 링크도 삭제된 상태에서) 매우 많은 다른 물질에 적용하기 위해 기본적으로 무의미한 마케팅 용어로 사용되고 있는데, 그 중 일부는 정말로 해로운 것이기 때문에 혼란스러운 기사다.

나는 그것을 병합해 달라고 부탁하는 것을 고려했지만, 이 용어가 오해의 소지가 있는 방식으로 대중을 향해 널리 쓰이고, 이런 것들이 실제로 암을 유발할 수 있는 방법을 고려했을 때, 아무도 쉽게 기사를 찾을 수 없는 글의 벽 뒤에 폴리레신이라는 용어를 버리고 (검색에 나온 이후부터 그랬던 것처럼) 그것과 반대했다.ems는 때때로 물질에 사용되는 해로운 화학물질의 이름을 짓는 그들의 방식에서 벗어나기 위해 그것을 사용하는 회사들의 목적을 돕기 위한 것이다.

...이 글을 쓰는 동안 그들은 글자 그대로 기사 전체를 지우고 방향을 바꾸었다.모든 것을 삭제하고 몇 시간 동안 살펴본 모든 소스를 삭제했다.고마워 위키피디아 나는 왜 내가 지금 물건을 아끼려고 노력하지 않고 모든 것을 지우는 사람들을 상대로 성가시게 굴지 않았는지 기억한다.아마 당분간은 다시 편집하지 않을 것이다. --모든 것이 지금 하고 있다(토크) 20:22, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답하라]

그것은 정말로 너무 형편없이 쓰여져서 위키피디아에게는 일종의 당혹감이었다.폴리레신의 정의는 찾을 수 없었지만, 합성수지의 전문용어임에 틀림없다고 추측했는데, 그것은 상당히 좋은 형태의 글이다.참고문헌은 일차적 또는 상업적 사이트에 관한 것이었다.리디렉션은 WP를 통해 독자를 어떤 것으로 보낸다.3차원의 출처와 상황을 설명한다.그것은 기술적 전문지식을 가진 사람이 작성한 안전에 관한 정보를 담고 있다.위키 화학은 전형적으로 높은 수준을 가지고 있고, 몇몇 편집자들, 나, 대담할 수 있다.이 사건이 모욕적이거나 파괴적이었다면 사과한다.짝수 WP를 찾을 수 있다면:SECURNERSION이 전달한다. --스모크풋(토크) 20:34, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
Smokefoot가 말하듯이 모든 것을 보관하십시오. Synthetic resin에 기여한 것 중 일부를 병합할 수 있는 확실한 범위가 있으며, 몇 시간이 아니라 몇 분 정도 걸릴 겁니다.편집 요약에 관해서는, 내용에 대한 코멘트가 확실히 허용된다.WP:Civil은 우리의 시민 의식 정책이며, 그것은 동료 편집자들이 아닌 내용에 대해 논평하라고 말한다.제거된 것은 결코 전적으로 당신의 기여가 아니었기 때문에, 개인적으로 받아들이지 마십시오.벨레자졸 21:08, 2019년 1월 26일 (UTC) 토론[응답]
  • 관리자로서 말하자면, 편집 요약에서 나와 관련된 것은 아무것도 보이지 않는다.편집자로 말하면 왜 리디렉션으로 전환됐는지 쉽게 알 수 있고, 우연히 마주쳤다면 나도 그랬을 것 같다.여기서 관리자가 할 일은 아무것도 없다. 왜냐하면 이것은 행동 문제가 아니라 내용 문제인데, 이것은 관리자가 결정할 문제가 아니다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 13분 54초, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 수달로 말하면, 예스 아카이브, 모욕적인 "변경 이유 메시지" ('요약 편집')에 반대하는 두 가지 규칙이 있다.이러한 규칙은 WP:Civil 및 특히 WP:B이다.ITE. @ 사용자:스모크풋 - 제발 신참들을 물지 마!
@ 과학 학위를 가진 편집자로서 말하는 아카이브, 당신의 글에 대해 아이 같은 것은 없었고, 기사도 형편없지 않았다.그 기사가 12년 동안 제자리에 있었으므로, 당신이 시간을 내어 기고를 한 후 불과 몇 분 후에 Smokefoot가 방향을 바꿀 필요는 없었다.네가 신참이라는 것을 고려하면, 너의 발전은 매우 훌륭했다.너는 여기서 훌륭한 편집자가 될 적성이 있어 보인다.그래서 나는 네가 이 일로 낙담하지 않기를 바란다.모든 것은, 위키피디아를 편집하는 것은 심지어 영재학자들에게도 배우는 데 시간이 걸린다.특히 과학기사의 경우는 더욱 그렇다.만약 당신이 다른 주제 수업을 편집했다면, 당신은 당신의 기고가 받아들여질 훨씬 더 좋은 기회를 가질 수 있었을 것이다.처음에는 작은 편집부터 해보길 바라, 그게 배우기 쉬운 방법이기 때문에.
반면에, 당신의 편집은 완벽하지 않은 몇 가지 특징을 가지고 있었다. 예를 들어 당신이 레드에 추가한 첫 문장은 약간 길었다.리디렉션에 대한 정책 기반 사례가 있었다.그리고 Smokefoot의 규칙 위반에도 불구하고, 그들의 기여도에 대한 리뷰는 그들이 전반적으로 매우 훌륭한 편집자임을 보여준다.그들이 미개한 요약을 편집하거나 신참들을 물어뜯는 버릇을 들이지 않는 것처럼 보이므로, 스모프트는 아무리 가벼운 제재라도 받을 자격이 없다는 데니스 행정관의 말이 옳다.다시 한 번, 우리를 용서하고 나중에 편집으로 돌아가길 바라.FeydHuxtable (talk) 20:01, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

등록되지 않은 편집기가 여기에 없음

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 편집에서, 등록되지 않은 편집자는 토론을 게임하기 위해 다른 편집자를 가장하고 있다.이 편집자는 분명히 이 백과사전에 생산적으로 기여하기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다.누가 제발 그나 그녀를 막아서 우리가 잘못된 믿음의 토론에 시간을 낭비하지 말고 기사 편집을 계속할 수 있게 할 수 있을까?고마워!엘케브보 (대화) 03:54, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

안녕, 나는 내 자신을 방어할 권리가 있는 것 같아.나는 토론의 요점을 증명하기 위해 다른 저자를 "인격화"했다. 그래서 나는 이것이 일종의 "공정한 사용"에 속할 것이라고 믿는다.그것은 분명해 보이는 진짜 사칭은 아니었고, 나는 주어진 질책을 받아들일 뿐 아무것도 "게임"할 의도가 없었다.

우리는 "역 표절"에 대해 토론하고 있었는데, 그것은 바라건대 엘케브보에게 다른 관점에서 이 문제를 고려할 수 있는 약간의 추진력을 제공하려는 의도였기 때문에 나는 그를 "역 표절"했다.솔직히 말해서, 나는 그의 행동이 정당하지 않다면 최소한 토론할 가치가 있는 편집들을 공격하고 제거하는 데 있어서 "나쁜 믿음"에 있다는 것을 발견한다.나는 충분한 명분과 출처를 제공했지만, 대화는 '역행'이라는 용어가 단어에 적용될 수 있는지 없는지, 그리고 우리가 기본적인 정의의 출처 없이 영어를 사용할 수 있는지조차 허락할 수 있는지에 대한 논쟁으로 누설되었다.나는 마치 내가 "사람들의 시간을 낭비하기" 위해 여기 있는 것처럼 나를 향한 광고 호미넨 공격이 있었다고 덧붙일 것이다.2605:6000:EF8C:BC00:A92B:D84A:C5BA:C62E (대화) 12:50, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

방금 "NOTHERE" 전체가 생산적인 것을 보았다 - 나는 그것이 매우 불쾌하다고 생각한다.요령을 익히고 편집 과정이 어떻게 돌아가는지 알아내는 새로운 사용자들이 있다고 해서 우리가 생산적이라는 것을 의미하는 것은 아니다.나는 이것이 새로운 사용자들에게 사려 깊지 못하고 매우 파괴적이며 역효과를 내고 있는 오래된 사용자의 예라고 믿는다.나는 단순히 숫자일 뿐 '이름있는 사용자'가 아니기 때문에 상당한 학대를 받아왔고 이것이 잘못되었다고 느낀다.필자가 편집한 내용은 대부분 정당한 정당화와는 달리 사소한 이유로 번복되는 경우가 대부분인데, '바쁜' 시간을 보내고 있는 사람들이야말로 기고철폐에 급급한 사람들인 것 같다.나는 또한 토론을 열었지만, 이슈를 "논의"하는 대신, 단지 "소스"가 왜 정의의 원천이 필요한지, 혹은 문제의 사건에 대한 참조로서 소스 그 자체 대신에 소스의 특정 단어에 대한 공격이 필요한지에 대한 실질적인 명확화 없이 모든 것을 고칠 것이라는 암시가 있었다.정의와 참조 이벤트를 제공하는 것은 여기서 독창적인 연구로서 자격이 주어서는 안 되며, 어떤 시점에서 나는 우리가 단순한 기본적인 상황과 맥락에 대한 논문을 누군가에게 발표하도록 요구하는 대신에 사건들을 있는 그대로 볼 수 있기를 희망한다.2605:6000:EF8C:BC00:A92B:D84A:C5BA:C62E (대화) 13:10, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

당신이 왜 그것을 했는지는 중요하지 않다: 다른 사용자의 메시지를 속이지 말아라.그것은 차단되기 위한 빠른 방법이다.그리고 ElKevbo가 "상관없고 매우 파괴적이고 역효과적"이었다고 말하는 것은 당신이 그들의 것처럼 보이도록 게시물을 조작한 후에 날지 않을 것이다.당신먹여 살리는 Bite: 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) 19:46[응답]

나도 동의해.나는 문제의 페이지에 있는 엘케브보에게 사과했고, 이전의 논평에 대해서도 여기서 사과하고 싶다.내 감정은 내 마음을 사로잡았다.난 "여기"야 절대 "NOTERE"는 아니야

이 모든 것이 해결되었으면 좋겠는데, 관련된 모든 분들께 다시 한번 사과드린다.2605:6000:EF8C:BC00:A92B:D84A:C5BA:C62E (대화) 02:19, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

중단 사용자 의견

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

SounderBruce는 운영 중단을 일으키는 사용자.파괴적인 사용자는 위키백과 사용자로, 위키백과에서는 용납할 수 없는 행동(죽음이나 법적 위협 등)을 저지르거나 "금지할 수 있는 행동"에 관여하지 않고 혼란을 일으킨다.파괴적인 사용자란 주로 기사를 공격하지 않고 오히려 기사와 연관된 사용자를 말한다.위키피디아는 다른 사용자와 그들의 작업에 대해 비판적인 분석과 조언을 제공하는 사용자들과 영장이나 사유 없이 다른 사용자와 기사를 공격하는 사람들 사이에 미세한 선이 있다.SounderBruceGreenhaven, ga와 관련하여 제3자와 논의된 항목에 대해 Talkinfool을 공격하고 있다.

사운더브루스그린헤이븐에서 여러 편집본을 삭제하고 외부 링크를 삭제했는데, 반대파인 ga는 이를 홍보하는 조직에 외부 링크를 허용하고 있다.SounderBruce는 왜 이러한 외부 링크를 추가할 수 없는지에 대한 요청에 응답하지 않지만, 당신은 그가 대신 불신임으로 비난을 시작한다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.Greenhaven, ga:talk에서 편집된 내용을 보면 이것이 사실임을 알 수 있다. TravelinFool(대화 기여) 05:20, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평

요약하면:트래블린풀조지아 그린헤이븐 기사에 그룹 '그린헤이븐에 반대하는 이웃들'에 대한 과도한 정보를 추가하려 한 세 번째 계정이다.몇 번을 중단한 끝에 나는 2차 소스를 이용한 그룹에 짧은 단락을 썼고, 그 페이지에 있는 세 계정의 편집 패턴을 최근에야 알아차렸기 때문에 SPI를 제대로 개설했다.이 사용자는 특정 POV를 정당화하기 위해 정책 자르곤을 반복적으로 시도하고 있다.사운더브루스 05:27, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
편집 내역에는 이미 이에 대해 포럼 쇼핑을 하고 있는 SPA가 표시된다.MPJ-DK (대화) 05:39, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
사운더브루스가 쓴 짧은 단락은 내가 보기에 타당해 보인다.부적절한 자료의 추가와 편집-워링이 진행되려면 페이지 보호나 사용자 블록을 반드시 고려해야 할 선택사항이다. --Leyo 08:52, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • TravelinFool, 토크 페이지에서 컨센서스를 형성하는 것은 당신에게 부담이 될 것 같다.사운더브루스의 추가는 야당 그룹을 좋은 소식통으로 잘 커버하는 것 같다.위키피디아의 주요 목표 중 하나는 검증 가능한 정보만 제공하는 것이다.검증할 수 없는 많은 양의 물질보다 소량의 고품질 물질을 갖는 것이 더 낫다고 이해된다.WP를 통해:특히 많은 반대 자료를 추가하는 것이 WP를 위반할 위험이 있기 때문에, 토크 페이지를 사용하는 것은 여러분의 부담이며, 토론하고 해당 섹션을 확장하기 위한 합의를 얻는다.기한WP:NPOV.만약 당신이 계속 맹목적으로 되돌아가면, 당신은 편집 전쟁에 대한 제재의 위험을 무릅쓴다.데니스 브라운 - 2시 13분 48초, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

편집 문제가 해결되었다.유일한 문제는 외부 연결고리와 그것 둘 중 하나이며 왜 양쪽 모두 외부 연결고리를 가지고 있지 않은가 하는 것이다.TravelinFool 14:15, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) — TravelinFool에서 추가서명되지 않은 이전 설명(토크 기여)

그린헤이븐, 가 기사에서 좀 더 평등한 견해를 얻으려고 노력중.기사에서 더 최근의 인용구를 보면, 지금 야당들이 포함되어 있다는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다.1, 12, 13 및 14에 대한 인용구를 참조하십시오.TravelinFool 15:43, 2019년 1월 27일 (UTC) — TravelinFool에서 추가서명되지 않은 이전 설명(토크 기여)

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Thebullfan48

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

  • 불란판48(토크 · 기여)은 주로 비지온 모터스포츠브레넌 풀(Brennan Pool)을 중심으로 몇 달 동안 페이지에 비소싱되지 않은 자료를 추가했다.비협조적인 내용은 대부분 소문과 추측의 형태로 나왔다.나는 대화 페이지에서 이 사용자에게 반복해서 경고했는데, 심지어 일반적인 트윙클 경고를 넘어서 도움을 주기까지 했다.여러 달 동안 4급 경고가 여러 차례 발령되었다.1월에 레벨 4 경고 이후, 사용자는 이 컨텐츠의 덩어리를 추가하였고, BLP에 대한 소스가 없는 동안, 그것은 또한 [86]의 거의 완벽한 카피비오인 것으로 밝혀졌다.

AIV를 원하지는 않았지만, 정확히 파괴적인 것은 아니지만, 독창적인 연구의 지속적인 추가와 최근 BLP에 카피비오가 추가된 것은 확실한 근거가 될 것이다.Willsome429 (Hey or see my edits!) 19:34, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

공동순서 편집 공격

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

와 관련하여, 여기 관리자로 하여금 이러한 편집 사항을 살펴보도록 할 수 있는가?([87], [88], [89][90])여기서 공동주문된 편집 공격이 일어나고 있다는 강력한 증거가 있다고 생각한다. 각 계정(76.68.105.33, 173.189.96.107, 69.159.17, 42.115.49.15)은 거의 동일한 날짜에 동일한 시간에 발생하여 동일한 페이지에 대한 편집이 거의 이루어지지 않았다.증거의 전체성에 근거한 나의 이론은 사용자:Samnyasa는 시스템을 게임하기 위해 VPN을 사용하고 있지만, 내가 Talk 페이지에서 언급했듯이, 그것에 대한 나의 증거는 정황적이기 때문에 나는 당신들 관리자들에게 당신들 중 누구라도 그것에 대해 할 수 있는 일이 있는지 알아봐 달라고 호소하고 있다.이 문제에 대한 당신의 행동은 환영받을 것이다.Flickotown (대화) 20:54, 2019년 1월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

Semiprotected for a week - let's see if they can find the talk page. Guy(Help!) 21:04, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Guy Can you take CU action on this? There is no way you can describe those series of edits as just "coincidental." Something fishy is definitely going on here. Flickotown (talk) 21:13, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Guy Flickotown here is very clearly engaging in editing to inject bias as a form of political activism. Just look at the edits and the user's history of edits. The User's targeting of Rania Khalek is very likely in response to a video she published yesterday criticizing US intervention in Venezuela. In response, Flickotown added a bunch of incendiary language characterizing the subject as "having been characterized as" pro-Assad, anti-Israel, Middle Eastern, working for state media, "A member of the BDS movement." The user also appears to have spent the day attempting to bias other pages related to Venezuela and the Bolivarian Revolution. There was no coordinated attack, Rania mentioned that her page had been vandalized on Twitter, and multiple users deleted parts of Flickotown's edits. I simply removed them all, and returned the page to its state prior what was very obviously a bad faith gesture of editing. Samnyasa (talk) 23:21, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. And I'm not using a VPN. My IP is 50.0.205.248, which is Sonic broadband in San Francisco. Samnyasa (talk) 23:21, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per the discussion here IP accounts User:142.113.114.215 and User:76.68.105.33 are operated by the same user who has admitted to operating previous accounts which were blocked. In light of these new developments, the edit warring by the ip users which I mentioned in the OP now look like a case at best of session hijacking in order to create the impression that there is an overwhelming consensus to remove the material in dispute and block evasion at worse. The two IP addresses should at the very least be handed a block of some sort. Flickotown (talk) 00:08, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reading over the talk page, it looks like there is an active editing dispute surrounding the article Rania Khalek. It probably wouldn't hurt to have a few more experienced eyes watching over it as this could involve some BLP issues. LizRead! Talk! 00:19, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: Flickotown just earned themselves a WP:BOOMERANG. And, in light of this comment, which I explained was WP:BATTLEGROUND-like, I recommend escalating the boomerang to a full indefinite block, with talk page/email revoked and UTRS access denied for at least the combined tenures of their previous and current accounts. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 02:22, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Technically, Flickotown didn't receive a boomerang because they were blocked for a separate report you made at WP:ANEW, not this report. Personally, I dislike boomerang blocks because it discourages editors from bringing intractable problems to ANI for solutions and also they can be the result of a mob mentality that sometimes occurs here. The short-term block for edit warring they received was warranted but I think your severe suggestion is over-the-top, even in light of this inexplicable edit. At Wikipedia, we talk out our differences, not try to eliminate those we disagree with. If you want to argue for an indefinite block, you'll have to have more evidence than you presented at ANEW. I appreciate your ping alerting me to the change in this dispute, though, thanks. Liz Read! Talk! 03:38, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:HUOL HURK ADANYSA creating inappropriate pages

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user has been creating several G3 worthy pages including Draft:George W Bushfire (he has created this 4 times), Draft:Bitchism and Draft:Buffism. After recieving a level 4 warning, he has created You Can't Tell Me What To Do (tagged A3). I propose a NOTHERE indef block for this user. CoolSkittle (talk) 01:35, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I thought the same an INDEF block. --ThegooduserLife Begins With a Smile :)🍁 02:07, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They've received an indefinite block for vandalism. Liz Read! Talk! 03:41, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:76.183.136.144

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This IP user keeps reverting the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport page back to how he thinks it should be without any justification.

A while back, I cleaned up and streamlined sections of the page (particularly the terminal section) to remove excessive information, some of which violated policies such as WP:NOTEVERYTHING, WP:NOTTRAVEL, WP:NOR, etc. I have been noticing as of late that airport pages are often cluttered with excessive information put in by aviation enthusiasts, and a lot of it either does not belong or could be condensed and summarized. However, a month after making the edits, this user came back and reverted it to its previous state because he claims I did not have “consensus” to make the changes. When I changed it back and tried explaining the reasoning, he simply reverted back and kept retorting I have no "consensus" and that the status quo should be left until a consensus can be reached. However, in this particular article, no one is objecting but him, and I have noticed users rarely comment on the talk page so "consensus" would be hard to reach. I have made similar edits to other airport articles and have had little issue. This user has yet to demonstrate the edits I made violate anything. It has escalated to the point where I reported him for edit warring and he retaliated, so the page has been locked for three days.

Also note this IP user rarely makes any contributions to Wikipedia and the last edit they made prior to this whole episode came in March 2018. If this user was so concerned about reaching consensus and improving articles, why don't they create a real account and edit often? Are they truly here to contribute or are they just WP:NOTHERE and just interested in picking fights because they can't have the page their way? I fail to understand what the issue is here. This isn't Wikivoyage, per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, we do not need every single little detail about DFW Airport in the article, a summary is more than adequate. I ask that this user be dealt with. Thank you. Arnoboro (talk) 01:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article has now been protected until 1 February 2019 so hopefully you can join 76.183.136.144 on the talk page for a discussion (which they have started). As for your other comments, there is no requirement for editors to create accounts, IP editors can edit just like everyone else except for semi-protected pages. I understand your frustration but I think you should assume good faith and not question another editor's motivations unless there is evidence of vandalism or continual disruption. Liz Read! Talk! 03:49, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to dispute some of this user's account and take an opportunity to defend myself.

This IP user keeps reverting the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport page back to how he thinks it should be without any justification.

This is not true, I have mentioned in the edit summaries that I do not believe your changes fall under WP:NOTTRAVEL and is not consistent with other airport articles. I have mentioned atleast 3 times that our disagreement should move to the talk page to resolve our objections, but you have refused instead choosing to revert. Per WP:CON "When agreement cannot be reached through editing alone, the consensus-forming process becomes more explicit: editors open a section on the associated talk page and try to work out the dispute through discussion." I have chosen to do this and have opened up a corresponding section on the article's talk page.
Next:

" When I changed it back and tried explaining the reasoning, he simply reverted back and kept retorting I have no "consensus" and that the status quo should be left until a consensus can be reached. However, in this particular article, no one is objecting but him"

I do not say this without reason, per WP:CON, " Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus." Since I objected to it, it therefore does not have consensus. The next step would be to discuss changes on the talk page.

Next:

I have made similar edits to other airport articles and have had little issue.

This is not relevant to the edit warring of the article at hand. You need to be accountable to your edits when someone objects.
Next:

Also note this IP user rarely makes any contributions to Wikipedia and the last edit they made prior to this whole episode came in March 2018.

I do not believe this to be relevant to this discussion. My edits are not malicious or committing any kind of vandalism, I have reverted with reason left in the edit summary. I choose when and what I want to edit. If I see something so reprehensible I will edit it and makes changes according, like I have done here.
Next:

Are they truly here to contribute or are they just WP:NOTHERE and just interested in picking fights because they can't have the page their way? I fail to understand what the issue is here.

This is not very nice and shallow. I have edited in good faith and provided edit summaries with my reasoning as well as opened up a line of dialogue on the talk page with my contention. 76.183.136.144 (talk) 03:55, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trenchfox

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Trenchfox (talk·contribs) has been editing since November 2018, and most of his edits in that time have been unexplained or poorly explained content removals, which he has persisted in despite repeated talk page warnings from multiple editors. Some of his removals are acceptable as deleting unsourced content with POV or OR concerns, but he also deletes encyclopedic material that could be easily cited and, occasionally, encyclopedic material that already is cited; most recently here, with a misleading edit summary. (Note the side effects of the removal - the same source is now cited twice for the same sentence, and the "same year" in the following sentence now appears to refer to 1976 because he removed the content about 1984. This is not the only case of such side effects; for example, this edit left a citation - which fully supported the removed content - hanging after unrelated content it doesn't cover.)
Morediffsofsourcedcontentremoval.
Trenchfox's content additions are also problematic, in that the "new content" tends to be copied from other Wiki articles with no attribution. While that's a very easy mistake for new editors to make, Trenchfox has already been warned about this twice (a month ago by Diannaa, and last week by me), so by now he ought to know better. Yet this very recent edit is a straight unattributed copy from Rick DeMont - to the extent that it still cites <ref name="sr"/>, a reference that does not exist in the new article. Another similar recent copying edit is this one, though that one's more complicated - it's not a straight copy of the original, it's a copy of a version already edited by Trenchfox to present a completely different POV not supported by the ref.
I have so far avoided reverting individual edits because the number of problematic edits is high and I haven't been sure if a mass revert would be a better option than reverting the edits one by one; but I do have real misgivings about that option, because in some cases it would re-add removed POV/OR/unencyclopedic content. Sideways713 (talk) 02:15, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
From a look at this user's talk page, it seems that this user is refusing to listen and cooperate. Trenchfox has been warned more than twice actually (checking the talk page's history), and seems to have ignored these warnings (as this user is persistingly removing content, despite being warned about it) with a response of simply removing them. A block seems necessary in this case to prevent further damage to WP, per Wikipedia:Blocking policy.
For references, this user removed his/her previous warnings issued by Sidways713 and Diannaa. Here is Diannaa's warning and here is Sideway's warning. --Atcovi(Talk - Contribs) 02:23, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can see that the user made some nonconstructive edits while masking it with constructive edits. The continuous removal of warnings and placing "leacycured" on the talk page make is seems like the user is WP:NOTHERE. Because of this, I think a topic ban on anything relating to the Olympics is necessary. -INeedSupport- :3 03:11, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Merlingoes

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This user, created today, has created a draft at Draft:\/1YC3. He submitted it for review three times, and it was rejected three times. The draft has now been tagged for speedy deletion by User:Praxidicae, after which User:Merlingoes chose to remove the speedy deletion template [91]. On User:Merlingoes he admits he was previously blocked [92]. I looked into this and found that Draft:VIYCE had been deleted twice and has now been salted. The user who had created that was User:Fraction7, who was ultimately blocked for trying to use Wikipedia to advertise his movie. Later, his talk page access was revoked. See blocked log. Subsequent to this, the user tried twice to have his block lifted via UTRS, and was rejected. Based on editing patterns and general WP:IDHT behavior, it is rather clear that User:Merlingoes is a block evading sock of User:Fraction7. I am requesting a permanent block of this second account. User has been informed of this thread. --Hammersoft (talk) 03:17, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Block the user for disrupting the speedy deletion process, without waiting for the SPI. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:30, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
An "interesting" and troublesome effort to game the system by playing games with title names. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:30, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rakesh06455

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Rakesh06455 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

WP:NOTHERE / Promotion-only account / link blacklist candidate. Courtesy ping JarrahTree who made me aware of the problem on my talk page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Brianis19 (Copyright violations)

Brianis19 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Copying within Wikipedia issues. In 1 March 2014, he has blocked by MER-C for Copyright violations. On January 2015, he was Unblocked by PhilKnight per Brianis19's unblock request. He said, I've read the copyright policy many times since the block and I think I'm no longer a threat and I have never hacked any website either. On 17 March 2016, he was splitting The Odd Couple (2015 TV series) without giving proper attribution, which was figure out by AussieLegend. On 25 September 2018, copying content from other Wikipedia articles, NCIS: New Orleans (season 5). Bennv3771 noted, You have been informed at least three times before to read and follow WP:CWW. Please be aware that copying within Wikipedia without giving proper attribution is a copyright violation. You said in your previous unblock request that you've "read the copyright policy many times" yet this is the fourth time since your unblocked that an editor is telling you to read and follow WP:CWW. And now, he created List of Man with a Plan episodes, copying within Wikipedia without giving proper attribution. Regard, Siddiqsazzad001 <Talk/> 11:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Brianis19 is a generally productive editor but I have had to revert him on several occasions through the years for making fairly basic errors that he tends to repeat. I'd have to go back through my edits to check the specifics, but as I remember, it was not one consistent problem. This is one editor whose edits I tend to review more thoroughly. --AussieLegend () 11:47, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not seeing the ANI notice on his talk, I have notified him.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User:Rejs12345

Rejs12345 (talk · contribs) has been making questionable edits over the past year. For example, he insists that the Fiat Freemont should have its own article, despite the fact that it is merely a rebadge of the Dodge Journey (see: Revision history). Since October 24, 2018, he has been instigating an edit war by turning the redirect into a carbon copy of the Dodge Journey article. Though he was not warned about this particular article, his talk page shows numerous warnings about edit warring on other articles and creating non-notable articles. I suggest Rejs should be given a time out while the Freemont redirect is to be protected from any further edits. - Areaseven (talk) 02:32, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note:User talk:Rejs12345 (edit user page history links watch logs) was redirected to User talk:REJS H (edit user page history links watch logs), so Rejs12345 may not have been seeing may of the messages there. I've moved the ones intended for the former but placed on the latter. — JJMC89(T·C) 05:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

IP-hopping block evader

에멜무지로~enwiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked for vandalism, and it appears that he has been socking and evading his block ever since. The IPs he seems to be using are from all over the world (Ukraine, Japan, Germany, South Korea...) but can be identified by three behaviors: a keen interest in digital typography, the various IPs edit warring to retain each others edits, and insults directed at me. I am hoping that a short semi-protection of his favorite targets will discourage him.

I asked for temporary semiprotection of my talk page, Windows Glyph List 4, and VSCII at WP:RFPP. The first two were protected, but VSCII was declined as not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection.[93] The socking continues on that page.

I would like a second opinion on temporary semiprotection of VSCII, and I would like some advice; given the IP hopping I am seeing and my theory that the sockmaster is using proxies, would it be appropriate to report the IPs as suspected proxies? Is there a good test I can do myself before reporting a suspected proxy? More generally, are our efforts to block proxy servers effective, or are there just too many of them, making it so that vandals can always find a new unblocked proxy on the first or second try? --Guy Macon (talk) 17:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think you mean VISCII as VSCII has no socking I see, actually very few edits point blank. (And none are from you.) Note that you requested protection of VSCII so the decline was IMO correct. Nil Einne (talk) 17:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I made a new RFPP for the right page since it may be handled faster there [94]Nil Einne (talk) 18:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't realise that there was a similar named article and the original was a typo. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Entirely my fault. Sorry about that. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:07, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Getting back to my other question, is there anything that a non-admin can do to help with whatever the sockmaster is doing (I believe that he is using proxies) so that he appears as different IPs from different countries? I am wondering about this as a general problem, not just this set of socks. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:07, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Report at WP:OPP? —A little blue Boriv^_^vBori! 20:32, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Is the fact that the IPs are from all over the world and edit war to retain each others edits enough to justify an OPP report? Or would it be rejected for lack of hard evidence? And again I ask, is there some way I can do some of the preliminary checking for proxies myself so as to leave less work for OPP to do?
Reports typically don't get rejected from WP:OP if you explain yourself, though they can take some time, and not all blocks are worth extending to an OP block. My advice: Google the IP, and check the backlinks to the IP's talk page (some of them anyway). Someone might want to mention a blacklist tool, and there's also this guide. However these particular proxies are not so easy, so even seasoned OP blockers will typically use the DUCK test on them. And, there are always more proxies. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

JohnThorne, fresh off TBAN, right back at the same sourcing problems

User:JohnThorne was TBANned indefinitely, with chance of appeal after a year from Bible-related topics due to years of unceasing and repeated failure to take advice from a large number of editors, as he created and edited hundreds of articles by copy-pasting a combination of poorly sourced, unsourced, plagiarized material, and copyright violations into them. The whole sordid affair is recorded in immense detail here. The messes have still not been cleaned up, though I and some others have done a great deal of work cleaning them up. He recently successfully appealed after convincing myself and some others that he now understood his mistakes [95].

On January 16, another user reminded him that when he cited offline sources, he needs to add page numbers where available [96]. This was smack-dab in the middle of his appeal (January 10 through 21), which probably should have been a red flag.

On January 21, he was cleared to re-enter the biblical realm and immediately began familiar bad patterns, introducing new poorly sourced content despite his stated intention during his appeal that initially he would stick to fixing his old errors.

On Jan 22 he added some quotes to Jeremiah 36, but cited the entire journal article in which they appeared, making it impossible to find the quotes reasonably quickly. I made him aware of the problem on January 23, and he added page numbers. See the talk page for more.

On January 25, he added highly specific material to Jeremiah 25, but cited it to an entire book.On January 26, I made him aware of the missing page numbers, at which point he added page numbers [97]. The page numbers he added in that edit, however, did not support the material that he had added.

Also Jan 25, he added practically the same material, copy-pasted, to Jeremiah 26, with the same Wurthwein source cited without page numbers. Upon being alerted to the problem, he added page numbers [98], but these were inaccurate in that they didn't support the information he had added to the article.

On Jan 25, he also did a similar page edit to Jeremiah 36. Upon being alerted to the problem, he added page numbers [99]. Some of the claims made were supported by the page numbers he added; some were not; and some were partially supported. Although all the actually correct information cited to the source could be found on pages 36-37, he cited pages 36-43, requiring extra reading to clean up the mess, which, as demonstrated in the last TBAN discussion, is typical of his M.O.

It is worth noticing that with all three of the January 25 pages he did this on, the material he cited to Worthwein was about Hebrew Bibles in general, not about the chapters specifically that he was talking about. So on top of the sourcing issues, it was all somewhat off-topic trivia being added.

So, at 3:07 Jan 26, I left a warning on his talk page [100]. He replied at 3:28, indicating that he had gotten the message, in his usual cheerful tone, with the usual promises to improve [101].

After his acknowledgment of the sourcing problems at 3:28, it took him less than twenty minutes to start adding new material again that is partially unsourced and partially misrepresents its sources. On the Jeremiah 26 page, at 3:45, he added that a manuscript named "4QJerc has verse 10 "extant". But this isn't accurate. This manuscript, as can be verified by just looking at the source he cited, contains just two words in Hebrew (yehuda et), and according to the source it is uncertain whether these represent Jeremiah 26:10 or not. He took something that is acknowledged as guessword in the cited source and made it a Wikipedia fact. In the same edit, he told us that Hebrew manuscript "4QJerc is also known as "4Q72". For all I know, this may be true, but JohnThorne didn't let us in on where he got this bit of information -- it's not found on the page cited.

Two minutes after fouling up his latest edit on Jeremiah 26, he edited the talk page of Jeremiah 26 at 3:47 to thank me for helping him and say that he had now "double-checked" to make sure "the latest edits have the correct attribution". But they didn't.

The user is consistently polite, consistently promising to do better, and after years of repeated warnings and an indefinite TBAN, is continuing the old pattern of rapidly propagating sourcing errors across multiple Bible-related pages, cheerfully acknowledging his mistakes when they are discovered, and then making more minutes later.

He consistently does not provide Google links to books — not that you're required too, of course, but hunting down all the relevant references takes time, and if he's going to keep editing Bible-related topics without doing large amounts of damage, we'd probably need a full-time editor to clean up after him. I don't think anyone is going to volunteer for that position. Alephb (talk) 04:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be appropriate here to ping all users involved in the discussion that reinstated JohnThorne less than a week ago: User:Beyond My Ken, User:JzG, User:DGG, User:Doug Weller, User:Cullen328, User:Wallingfordtoday, User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång, User:Alex Shih. This is because past knowledge of the situation is useful here. To avoid any appearance of "stacking the deck", please note that each of these users either supported bringing JohnThorne back or did not object. If anyone thinks it would be appropriate and useful, I'd be happy to systematically ping all the people involved in the original TBAN discussion, without making any discrimination based on viewpoint.Alephb (talk) 04:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid problems with a potential violation of WP:Canvassing, you should ping all participants. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:44, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think I did ping all participants in the most recent TBAN discussion. I just wanted to note that it was not at all a collection of hostile people. If there's anyone else I should ping, I am completely willing to do so. Alephb (talk) 05:03, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And had anyone been opposed to his reinstatement in the most recent discussion, I would have pinged them too. I hope I didn't give the impression that I had only selected part of the people from that discussion.Alephb (talk) 05:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I consider the above errors as very minor. There remain some much more important problems. (I need to first say I am not an expert here, but an amateur, and though I have been following some of the current literature on the OT, I am mainly interest in the books of Ezra & Nehemiah.) There are several subjects to discuss in any article on a verse of chapter of the Bible: the history of textual criticism, and its current state; the history of interpretations over the last 2000+ years, and the main current issues. . The goal should be to give the general reader an overall basis from which they can evaluate any discussion of the Bible they should see, and the perspective to know that there is not a single consensus interpretation. (The actual textual details are too complicated for a general treatment here, and the complete history of interpretation an order of magnitude more. The problem is how to present these without oversimplification. The first step is to realize that, except for the history of interpretation, nothing before the discovery of the Qumran manuscripts is of contemporary value. The next step is to recognize that most of the original transcripts and studies of Qmran texts have been by Roman Catholic scholars, that the Masoretic text does not go back before the 7th to 10th century CE (see the WP article for a good discussion) , and that schools of interpretation vary drastically.. I may not have ben explicit enough in my earlier comment: the reason these verses are important in a practical sense, not just an academic or scholarly sense, is because the prophecies in them have for two millennia served Christians as the key proof that the Hebrew prophets foretold the coming of Jesus, and thus prove the truth of Christianity. Since most Christians believe in the truth of Christianity without needing to reexamine the details, and most Jews or Moslems see no reason for examine the interpretations of other religions, the largest group that see these texts as a living issue is the Messianic Christians/Messianic Jews.
As for the immediate issue before us here at WP,, let the ed. under discussion continue his work, and let those who (in my opinion rightly) think it is inadequate, add to it. If he reverts other peoples contributions, I'd say only then would he be considered disruptive DGG ( talk ) 07:02, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My biggest problem with biblical articles on WP is the tendency to state that X is a philosophical position of the Bible, sourced directly to a Bible passage. That is canonical WP:OR. And it is absolutely rampant. Guy(Help!) 09:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
JohnThorne is the editor who has created so many, many articles on single bible-verses, is he not? My problem with that is that the project is so pointless. The division of the bible into chapters and verses occurred some time in the Middle ages - he's taking arbitrary bits of text and constructing articles around them. It's harmless, but not a very good use of the project.PiCo (talk) 10:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PiCo is right. As I pointed out (along with Alephb if I remember correctly), Wikipedia simply shouldn't have these hundreds of pages on biblical chapters and verses that exist. They're impossible to regulate for bad editing, and history shows that bad sources have consistently gotten into them for years without anybody noticing. I've probably fixed literally hundreds if not thousands of mistakes/problems with them and the problems are still rampant. If JohnThorne continues this problem, then re-banning him needs to be considered. However, I would like to see one situation play out -- all his problematic edits have consistently been on the same biblical chapter pages he created and a number of us other editors want to see deleted. Why don't we just delete all of them and then see what JohnThorne does elsewhere on other pages? I looked at his editing on non-biblical related topics a few days before his ban was taken off and they're actually pretty good. It might be this specific area where he really just doesn't know what to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wallingfordtoday (talkcontribs) 14:40, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just speaking as a reader on the question of whether there should be articles on chapters/verses, I'd argue that articles for chapters/verses are quite a reasonable way to organize the vast amounts of encyclopedic Biblical commentary that's out there. While it's perhaps arbitrary, it avoids the need to have everything in the main book pages. WP doesn't have the space constraints of paper, so there's the potential there to have very comprehensive coverage of the Bible (or other texts with massive amounts of commentary e.g. Quran, Daode Jing, etc). But yeah, since there is so much written out there covered in secondary sources (think historical context, interpretations, history of the way the text was understood, history of the transmission of the text, etc) I think there's a decent potential to consider at least some articles on smaller sections of the text. Admittedly as an inclusionist and a Christian, I may be rather biased though :) —{{u Goldenshimmer}} (they/their)|😹|✝️|John 15:12|☮️|🍂|T/C 19:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment When I was in high school, we were taught to cite down to column, paragraph, line. Citing page numbers is quite basic and essential, and not nearly as difficult.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment User:DGG says above "let the ed. under discussion continue his work, and let those who (in my opinion rightly) think it is inadequate, add to it". It seems to me the problem is that User:JohnThorne is creating massive amounts of work for other editors to do in tracking his edits and cleaning up after him, not really just "adding" to his "inadequate" work. I don't think we can count on Alephb to continue to possess the patience and the time to repair John Thorne's "inadequate" work indefinitely, or Wallingfordtoday who has also been pitching in. I also question the value of having all these articles on individual Bible chapters, perhaps only chapters that are extremely important in some way should be kept and the rest deleted.Smeat75 (talk) 00:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've been waiting for him to respond here. He hasn't so far. I'm with Smeat75's post just above. So far it looks as though we made a mistake. Doug Weller talk 19:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response Just back from a short break, I was taken by surprise that User:alephb had posted this ANI, while it seemed to me that we started to collaborate well. I can understand the frustration due to the articles on the Bible chapters that I started. It grieves me immensely, because originally I had hoped the articles would allow the brightest minds among the Wikipedia editors to work together, discussing the values and gems within each part of the books, following the spirit of editing in Wikipedia. Instead, it causes a lot of pain for some editors. I also don't want that the articles become wasted without proper editing for so long. Hence, I dared myself to apply for the appeal for TBAN, in order to amend the mistakes I made. As the first post has shown, I have tried to quickly revise my edit as soon as errors were found. That it results more issues, I am sorry. Here is what I can propose from my part to solve:
    • From now on, I will place the edits I plan to do on the Bible chapters in my sandbox, open for all to review, and ask the consensus from the community, before placing them in the articles.
    • For the Bible chapters that I started, I will place a {stub} tag, so the articles can be identified to be considered for deletion or improvement by other users. I am open for any suggestions how to deal with this.
Again, it is not my intention to take away valuable time from other users for this issue. I am contributing for the Wikipedia voluntarily with happy heart and open mind, by spending my own time. My goal is really to make Wikipedia a better source for information, not myself, but by working together with other Wikipedia editors. Peace. JohnThorne (talk) 22:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What is Blackness and why Wikipedia administrators are pushing it on the Horn Africa page?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We have Wikipedia editors with an agenda vandalizing a high traffic page using their social agenda. I would like to remind the administrators what Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia, once said:

"If you can get your work published in respectable scientific journals – that is to say, if you can produce evidence through replicable scientific experiments, then Wikipedia will cover it appropriately."
"What we won’t do is pretend that the work of lunatic charlatans is the equivalent of 'true scientific discourse'. It isn’t.[102][103]"

31.168.172.141 (talk) 00:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This post is rather unclear, if you think there has been recent disruptive editing, you need to be more specific about who did what wrong, if you have a disagreement with someone's edit(s), you should discuss that with them on the article's talk page. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions Tornado chaser (talk) 00:25, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Same Russian moderators ban and postpone Kiev > Kyiv renaming (politically motivated)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiev 37.54.64.92 (talk) 21:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AKiev%2Fnaming 37.54.64.92 (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case somebody has forgotten (or did not know) what it means to edit and/or make administrative actions in Eastern Europe topics.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:06, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just in case somebody has forgotten the scale of Russian disinformation campaign 37.54.64.92 (talk) 22:09, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is English Wikipedia. In English, is spelled "Kiev". No matter how hard Ukrainian nationalists try to dictate spellings outside Ukraine. You cannot legislate language usage, really. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 22:13, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1. US Board on Geo. Names (BGN) - https://geonames.usgs.gov/

2. UK https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-kyiv

3. AU Australia https://ukraine.embassy.gov.au/kyiv/home.html

4. CA canadainternational.gc.ca/ukraine/index.aspx?lang=eng - Kyiv

5. NZ New Zealand government portal https://safetravel.govt.nz/kyiv

6. IE dfa.ie/embassies/irish-embassies-abroad/europe/ukraine/ - Kyiv

7. IN Embassy of India, Ukraine eoiukraine.gov.in/index.php - also Kyiv

so all these English-speaking countries use Kyiv already (are they also Ukrainian nationalists? - a word combo you try to use to put my request in negative light),

They use already, but Russian moderators including those above oppose. All the same non-natives work in that Wiki section. Lol 37.54.64.92 (talk) 22:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Both forms are valid transliteration, and can be supported with sources. The decision to rename any article should be based on a balance of the most reliable sources, not politics. It seems reasonable to suspect there is political lobbying, so following more formal procedures to reach a consensus for changes is sensible, and this may require administrators to intervene, or at least summarize. For some articles, "Kyiv" is already used, for example Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv, simply because that is how the University presents itself in English publications. -- (talk) 22:23, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yawn. This is the semi-annual push by Ukrainian nationalists to circumvent WP:COMMONNAME. They list a tiny number of organizations in the English-speaking world and the diplomatic corps of all of them (because that's what diplomatic corps are required to do in order to keep the embassy open), and ignore 90% of all English-language sources that use "Kiev" consistently and without variation (except when naming sports teams). We've posted the evidence that "Kiev" is the common name in English of Ukraine's capital city at least twice a year for a decade. But the true believers keep coming back in the guise of anon IPs tilting at the windmills of common English usage. The current IP is from Lviv. It's a beautiful town and one of my favorite hangouts when I'm in Ukraine (I love tracing the footprint of the old city wall around the old square and their monument to Taras Schevchenko is second to none), but it's also a hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism (and has been since long before it first fell into Soviet hands in 1939). The IPs come and go and rarely return. But the weight of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONSENSUS is a barrier that they don't have the patience (or evidence) to overcome. "Kiev" is not a transliteration anymore, it is an English placename in common use like "Warsaw", "Moscow", and "Prague". --Taivo (talk) 22:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You misspelled Lvov. Qwirkle (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:REVDEL request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can an admin revdel edits made from this now blocked IP address: Special:Contributions/2601:246:CB80:20D0:CC9B:B80A:BEA9:730D? They're clearly severe BLP violations. Thanks. 24.92.148.120 (talk) 05:49, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done Thanks for the ping on IRC, Power~enwiki. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A note here that as the allegations made in the edits are potential libel, the edits need to be oversighted and you should contact the oversighters using one of the methods listed at Wikipedia:Requests for oversight, rather than posting here on AN, a public and very visible forum (and should contact an oversighter rather than an admin on IRC). Galobtter (pingó mió) 08:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note that the material has been oversighted, — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 15:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User Holstebro

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User Holstebro (talk · contribs) seems adamant on edit warring to add incorrect information on the ŽRK Budućnost Podgorica article and refuses to discuss the matter in a civilised manner even though I've made attempts at resolving the situation. [104] [105] Have tried to explain multiple times that Wikipedia is not a discussion forum and that the information added to the articles should be fact-based and not based on user's own "insider information". User doesn't seem interested in resolving the issue, instead opting to engage in disruptive editing.

You could have added a template for citation needed. I did that for you. Christina (talk) 18:26, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Citation needed? It's simply unfactual. It has no place on Wikipedia till it's officially confirmed. As I've said multiple times now, "insider knowledge" and what teammates say in interviews confirms nothing that is nowhere near reliable enough to put in an Encyclopaedia. Cotillards (talk) 22:57, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I posted the news about Radicevic and Mehmedovic that User Cotillards (talk · contribs) kept deleting even if it was true. I provided links, he kept deleting them and in the end it was confirmed so he stoped deleting. Now he deletes everything i edit about the players leaving, i provided proof from several sources, it was confirmed in the media and the players themselves.

I removed the transfers you'd stated as being confirmed because they were not confirmed then. The moment they were presented officially by Budućnost, I obviously let your edit stand because first then they were confirmed by the club. If you had bothered to consult your own talk page where I've attempted to contact you to explain why I've reverted your edits, you would know that lots of things can go wrong in between a player/teammate/coach/"insider source" confirming to the media that someone is leaving/arriving and it actually happening. As such, only transfers officially confirmed by the clubs themselves should be added because only then it's an official transfer. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. You seem intent on adding these pieces of information – postulations and rumours – that, let's face it, have no place in an encyclopaedia that states facts. Post them to a discussion forum instead. Stop using Wikipedia as a discussion forum. Cotillards (talk) 20:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, might I also just add that Holstebro (talk · contribs) keeps adding these changes over and over without making or engaging in attempts at resolving the dispute at hand and as such initiates an edit war. Cotillards (talk) 20:09, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've been editing ZRK Buducnost page for years now and i never posted false information and always posted offical things and provided links. Cotillards (talk · contribs) doesn't contribute. I'm from Montenegro, i understand the language and know everything about this club. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holstebro (talkcontribs) -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 21:19, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The information you have provided may not turn out to be false in the long run – my point is that as of right now, it isn't verifiable by official sources. However much you're from Montenegro and I'm not, it doesn't change the fact that these players haven't officially been confirmed to be arriving/leaving and as such adding them to the transfer section is simply incorrect. Cotillards (talk) 20:57, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cotillards (talk · contribs) The information is official as Vijesti and especially Pobjeda are media partners of Buducnost and publish the information the club gives them.

Again, unless it's confirmed by Budućnost themselves, it's not an official confirmation. Cotillards (talk) 21:09, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to sum up all the hullaballoo in question: The dispute is about the legitimacy of the transfers Holstebro has added to the ŽRK Budućnost Podgorica article. Reiterating what I wrote at user talk:Dlohcierekim: The alleged "sources" Holstebro has provided for these transfers are the media reporting on the rumours of these transfers as well as teammates of the players in question and as such, they are not official. Meaning they haven't been announced by the club(s). Holstebro claims that Budućnost don't announce transfers. That is untrue. This is what an official confirmation of a transfer to Budućnost looks like. The club Katarina Bulatović is rumoured to is Siofók KC. As evident by their website, there is no confirmation of a such transfer here either.

My argument is that a lot of things can go wrong in between rumours and/or talks of a transfer and the actual transfer. Using articles speculating about transfers is about as reliable as if I was to go edit Christian Eriksen into Real Madrid's Wikipedia-article using only Danish articles gushing about a potential transfer as my reference. Using rumour-based articles as "proof" is a slippery slope. I work for a news media myself. We report on countless of rumoured transfers that don't end up going through. That's not to say the media I work for isn't reliable – just that it's a rumour and we report on it. It is my understanding that an encyclopaedia should be rooted in facts. The moment you start using rumours as a source, it stops being rooted in factuality and instead becomes pure speculation.

Additionally, it looks like MNEfan111 (talk · contribs) is an account created solely to back Holstebro's claims up over at user talk:Dlohcierekim. It was created yesterday and it's only contribution is reiteration of what Holstebro claims. Fairly obvious example of socking and doesn't exactly make Holstebro seem extremely credible either.

I'm all for solving this issue but at no point has Holstebro (talk · contribs) been willing to sit down to discuss this in a civilised manner. They instead prefer to resort to edit warring and telling me how unenlightened I am because I have the audacity to edit an article about a Montenegrin team without being Montenegrin myself. Additionally (and as evident by my user page), I am a woman – so both Holstebro (talk · contribs) and Cristina neagu (talk · contribs) can stop consistently misgendering me when going on about how mean I am ;) Cotillards (talk) 11:55, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I in fact blocked Holstebro briefly for unsourced edits. (The ones I saw were unsourced.) I unblocked when they agreed to discuss here. But their response was not encouragingly collegial. The discussion may be moot as the are no check user blocked for the socking. If they at some point would discuss instead of breast-beating, perhaps they could edit more collaboratively.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do you think we can educate him on this and present him the Wikipedia policy which he didn't read? This user has good intentions but doesn't know anything even about sockpuppetry. We are all humans after all. Indefinite blocking may be a little bit harsh since he was blocked for 31 hours for the first time, then received indefinite for a comment on his talk page with a new user. Which was obviously his. I already talked to him. Christina (talk) 16:31, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Shameless (British TV series)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Earlier this month, Shameless (UK TV series) was moved to Shameless (British TV series) in violation of WP:NCTVUK. This was undone such that the latter now redirects to the former, but the former (as you can see) was deleted today by Anthony Appleyard with a delete summary I don't quite understand.

It appears to me that the article should be restored at Shameless (UK TV series), but I'm uninvolved and unsure so I thought it best to raise this here, because I do know that what isn't meant to be the case is the article not existing anywhere at all...--Newbiepedian (talk · C · X! · L) 13:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, the page is back at the title you prefer, so nothing more needs doing. IffyChat -- 14:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that Anthony Appleyard was working on a history merge, and Newbiepedian came across it while the work was in progress. It is all looking good now. –FlyingAce✈hello 18:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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IP editor deleting categories

Hi, there's a single-purpose IP editor deleting a single category from articles DIFs, notification on their Talk Page. Raquel Baranow (talk) 16:41, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I reverted the current edits. Should be good for now. A Dolphin (squeek?) 17:31, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any ideas that can be done here? Request semi-protection for the 2 dozen or so articles being hit by this IP? Blocking the IPs (but they'll just get another)? Range block (even to my amateur's eye I would think we're talk about 2 different ranges)? Blackout all of Indonesia? Edit filter to prevent deletion of the category by IPs? Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Today they used User:111.94.203.124 and didn't delete the category, just commented it out. I take that to mean that they read my suggestion above of an edit filter to stop IPs from removing the category. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've just protected this particular category. What else would you like protected from IP edits? Deb (talk) 08:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I feel that it's quite legitimate to block IP users for a lengthy period when it's obvious they are moving from one to another to make the same disruptive edits. I've had to do that several times recently. Deb (talk) 08:48, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Deb: Thank you - I didn't realize that Categories could be protected so that IPs couldn't remove them from articles. If you're willing, there are other two IPs involved -- 118.137.40.189 and 111.94.132.166. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:31, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And now 118.137.14.236 as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I don't think they can. I misunderstood the problem. But I could protect any articles that have been repeatedly attacked, if you let me know what they are. Deb (talk) 11:09, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I think we need someone to do a range block, which is somewhat beyond my level of expertise. I've put out a call for technical assistance. Deb (talk) 11:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I appreciate it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:48, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A rangeblock here would have to cover two /15 networks. Both networks belong to the same Indonesian ISP, but IMO this would be too large to be reasonable (so large the contributions tool won't even tell me what collateral there would be). GoldenRing (talk) 11:52, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. I was hoping we could identify a subset of the most-offending. Deb (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Too bad, I was afraid of that. I guess I'll just continue to play whack-a-mole and delete on sight, since the number of articles they've hit makes it unreasonable to protect them all. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Beyond My Ken, looking at 111.94.0.0/16, I don't see any recent offending edits other than from the one IP above. However, a number of IPs from 118.137.0.0/16 have been fiddling around with this category, including adding it to several articles with 118.137.38.2. I wouldn't be comfortable blocking the entire /16, but narrower blocks might be feasible if this continues. —DoRD (talk) 14:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, even with the first IP, after mistaking adds for deletions and deleting them, I realized my mistake and (after determining if they were appropriate) rolled back my edits, restoring the IP's adds. Obviously if an add is appropriate, I have no objection to it -- and the same goes for the deletion if it's not appropriate for the article, although I've yet to find a deletion where that was the case. There seems to be no rhyme or reason behind the deletions, except that they may be linked to an anti-Communist POV. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:37, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTHERE editing by User:1DHNK1

New account created on 21 December 2018;

  • On 21 December 2019, "1DHNK1" added unsourced WP:OR to the Tajik mafia article, as well as clear non-WP:RS sources such as YouTube link[106]-[107]
  • When I reverted "1DHNK1's" edits on 2-3 January (with a clear edit-summary as well as a warning on his talk page), he started to revert me on 15 January 2019 without any explanation or whatsoever.[108]-[109]-[110]
  • I then left him another warning on 15 January 2019, to which he also never replied.[111] Per WP:VER and WP:RS and the fact that "1DHNK1" isn't interested in responding, I removed the unsourced material he had added to the article on the same day.[112]
  • Today (27 January 2019), once again ignoring WP:BRD, WP:VER and WP:RS (as well as WP:WAR), "1DHNK1" reverted and reinstated the desired bogus information. Once again no edit summary/explanation.

Bear in mind that Oswah and Materialscientist warned him in the recent past as well. Looking at the compelling evidence, its safe to say that this user is not here to build this encyclopedia. - LouisAragon (talk) 13:25, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More:
  • Added unsourced content to the Lebanese mafia article without edit summary/explanation.[113]
  • Changed content on the Mohammad Gul Khan Momand article without sources.[114]
  • Added unsourced content to the Tahir Badakhsi article.[115]
  • Changed info on the Farzana Naz article, and calling it "fixed".[116]
- LouisAragon (talk) 13:34, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) I've left a link to WP:Communication is required and a short note on their talk page. I'm not ready to block just yet, but let's see how they respond to the note I've left. Now that they are officially on notice and have the information they need, if they are unwilling to respond and keep reverting without comment, it would pretty much force our hand. I would say leave this open a couple of days and see what happens. Dennis Brown - 13:36, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown: He just left me this note:
  • "Biased editor: He has been stalking me for ages and has been undoing all my edits because it does not go with his agenda. Becarefull of Him".
- LouisAragon (talk) 11:42, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, that doesn't look good. I gave that user a level three NPA warning. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:00, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Illuminati recruiter

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User:Benjimacfy diff diff Spam block please. Thanks. Cesdeva (talk) 02:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Obvious spammer is obvious. I could post a talk page warning but don't see the point as the account will just become a sleeper if it isn't indeffed. If i don't get a reply soon i'll just assume y'all are part of the illuminati too. Cesdeva(talk) 03:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I support indef site ban for the user in question. Spam is against the rules of Wikipedia obviously, and spam for any form of organisation recruitment obviously can also be considered as Advertising. We all probably know that advertising on Wikipedia is also against the Wikipedia rules. Unfortunately I can not take any action at the moment as I am not an Administrator. On a side note there has been no admin response yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aceing Winter Snows Harsh Cold (talkcontribs) 04:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As a member of those who have been illuminated truly. I have cast this one into the outer darkness, indefinitely. Seriously, though, you'd have gotten a quicker response at WP:AIV.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:51, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I had the fascinating opportunity to meet and spend some time with Robert Anton Wilson roughly 40 years ago, who was perhaps the greatest of the tongue-in-cheek Illumuminati bullshit artists. He was far more charming and entertaining than this tedious spammer. Good block. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:29, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Re: google search result .. Who created white people

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everything on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam) is WRONG. and proof will be needed in order for this to stand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.187.82.120 (talk) 16:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You should discuss your concerns at the article talk page. I have protected the page to encourage discussion.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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AFD close request

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Hi, Can someone close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jones and Beach station as Speedy Keep please?, I've tried but 30 minutes later it was still at "closing" with nothing seemingly done, I tried another way[117] but that only closed the AFD and didn't touch the other articles,
Other than AWB (to remove afd notice from articlw / +notice to tp) I don't really know how else this can be closed?, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 13:29, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

AFD closed, I'll now remove from the articles. GiantSnowman 13:33, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much GS it's much appreciated (I shan't ping given you're extremely busy right now), Thanks so much, –Davey2010Talk 13:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Phew, finally done! GiantSnowman 14:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks GS it's very appreciated :), –Davey2010Talk 14:27, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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User Fram and User LouisAlain

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This morning (07:42 UTC, 28th Jan) User:Fram blocked User:LouisAlain for 24 hours on the grounds of copyright violations. I am concerned that Fram's previous interactions with Louis – evident on Louis' user talk page and in the archives – were approaching the levels of bullying and harassment. For this reason I don't think it was appropriate for Fram to issue a block and if there were issues an uninvolved administrator should have been consulted. As such, please could someone check to see if the block is appropriate and proportional? Richard Nevell (talk) 18:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard Nevell: Please provide evidence (diffs) that show that Fram is involved.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Richard Nevell: as far as "proportional" goes, if there were actually copyvios—is that under dispute?—then a 24-hour block is about as low as it goes. I mean it's literally the starting money. And, just an FYI, but if you provide diffs rather than referring people to the archives, you might get more traction: some editors here will wonder why they should lug through the archives when you didn't :) ——SerialNumber54129 18:42, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point, I am in the process of pulling the diffs together! Richard Nevell (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Richard Nevell: - So allow my recap based on talkpage reading only. Fram gave LouisAlain a warning to not use the "other uses" template when not needed, a warning that was ignored. Then Fram got more direct since the kid glove treatment was ignored. Promoting passive-aggressive responses from LouisAlain that continued when Fram (rightly so) brought up copyright violation concerns, led to further being ignored or passive-aggressive replies back until it was clear that talking went nowhere. What you see as "bullying", I see as enforcing guidelines to a user who does not listen. Are you suggesting that the only admins to issue a block is someone who has never had any interaction? Warnings were given, warnings were ignored or channeled into an unproductive response, a block was given to cool the user off. MPJ-DK (talk) 18:54, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here we go, it's about the big picture not the individual snippets:
  • 9 November 2018 – LouisAlain crops up on Fram’s radar when the latter proposed the deletion of an article. Seems reasonable enough.
  • 3 December 2018 – Fram asks Louis not to use machine translations, a request in-line with policy and practice.
  • 3 December 2018 – Fram characterised Louis’ edits restoring some of the content to the article mentioned above as vandalism, which in Wikipedia parlance is tantamount to challenging someone’s honour. Was the restoration good practice? No, but neither was describing it as vanalism.
  • 3 December 2018 – Goes on to imply Louis has been operating multiple accounts, which is highly charged and bad faith.
  • 4 December 2018 – Fram leaves Louis a message about hatnotes.
  • 17 December 2018 – Fram insists that translated articles must be fact checked. The core point is reasonable, but it shows that Fram’s scrutiny of Louis’ editing is higher than expected when dealing collegiality with a good faith editor. No one is above scrutiny, but this is beginning to look a bit like hounding.
  • 17 January 2019 – Fram mentions hatnotes again, is annoyed by the response and becomes aggressive
  • 17 January 2019 – Fram berates Louis for linking to a YouTube video. Following the letter of policy but not the spirit to ‘win’.
  • 18 January 2019 – Fram identifies one of Louis’ articles needs attribution as to where it has been translated from. Three hours later Fram deletes the article when attribution could have been straightforwardly given. This was punitive rather than constructive. The article is later restored and attribution given.
  • 28 January 2019 – Fram blocks Louis for translating a copyrighted text, which brings us up-to-date.

The issue is not the Fram has been blatant in their antics. The little actions build over time. Granted, it depends which lens you view it through but having seen this slowly unfold on my watchlist I felt that Fram was the wrong person to issue the block. The dynamic looks to me like one person with power following another without and picking up and magnifying any transgression. I am not questioning the interpretation of the policies Fram has used, but I am questioning how Fram decided to use then. No, MPJ-DK I am not saying admins can only block people they have never interacted with, but I do say that if you could be perceived to be involved an administrator should be smart enough to ask for someone else to get involved. The situation was not time sensitive so that Fram needed to block straight away instead of raising it at a noticeboard. What would have been the response to Fram if the issue had been raised here then? Richard Nevell (talk) 19:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't want to interject comments between each so instead I'll refer to each bullet by number where I disagree with your analysis
  • Diff 3 - stating that the continued use of machine translation without more manual is will be considered "Vandalism" does not refer to past actions, but to the fact that willfully ignoring the guidelines after they have been explained is vandalism.
  • Diff4 - asking "with what account" in response to comments about being banned would indeed be bad faith, if LouisAlain's block log reflected this. It was not an accusation made out of the blue, but a reply to statements made.
  • Diff6 - considering there is a history of passive-aggressive comments and willful ignorance of previous statements I don't think there is anything wrong with Fram keeping an eye on the user.
  • Diff7 - Is blunt, direct - LouisAlain is the one displaying annoyance
  • Diff8 - You do know that issues with copyrights should be deleted upon sight and only restored if properly addressed?
  • Diff9 - Blocked for behavior they have been warned about and explained why it was a problem.
  • I still don't see the problem in Fram's behavior as such - would more patience be better? Hard to say, it could have been an eternal cycle of "Please don't" followed by that being ignored. Certainly not something that is an ANI issue IMO. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Breaking things down into individual actions makes them easier to dismiss while ignoring the sum of the behaviour. An individual straw is light on its own, but I understand you can break a camel's back if you put enough on. Richard Nevell (talk) 21:03, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The "sum of the behaviour" is that Fram noticed a user who was playing fast and loose with copyright, made some efforts to guide them, and then blocked them when they again violated copyright. Guy (Help!) 21:06, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but if each action individually is just fine then collectively they are also "just fine" - You implied a "sum of behavior", it's on you to actual prove it. Your complaints about him impying that he had another account is you misinterpreting his question (clean block log, yet referred to being blocked) and stating that repeating editing in a way that is against the guidelines is vandalism is not "biased", but very much appropriate. If each edit is appropriate, then the "sum total" is okay too - unless you believe that 1+1+1 is not 3? MPJ-DK (talk) 22:26, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The block is fine. I fully understand that Fram may annoy some people (and we have certainly been on opposite sides of arguments many times), but he seems to be right about the content of this dispute here. —Kusma (t·c) 21:14, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have much to add to what others have said above. I just would like to clarify that when LouisAlain said "And spare me your threats, I know the line. First a warning and a 24 h suspension, then a second warning with a 1 week suspension and finally a definitive ban. I've been here before. LouisAlain (talk) 14:06, 3 December 2018 (UTC)", while at the same time having a clean block log, I wondered what they were referring to. It turns out that they hadn't been blocked on enwiki before, but that they are banned from frwiki (if I understand it correctky, blocked for severe personal attacks coupled with misgivings about the quality of his translations, and then banned for block evasion through an IP). Here, they have recently (December) had their autopatrolled right revoked (not by me or requested by me) as well. Fram (talk) 08:08, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • This seems mostly resolved and I don't have much to add either, but whether or not Fram could be considered WP:INVOLVED here, the "any admin would do the same" provision definitely applies to copyright violations. And for the record no I don't think Fram's prior interactions with the user cross into involved here. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Block of Martinevans123

This is clearly an obvious copyvio of https://lanouvelleathenes.fr/philippe-chaperon-1823-1906/ LouisAlain has also worked on it. It's such a copyvio that such things, even as working drafts, have been seen as problems within userspace. In no way was that article ready for mainspace and I support the CSD.
However, a month long block? I can't see reason to justify that, especially not if the backstory about another editor is already up and running at ANI. I find Martinevans' humour to frequently be quite grating, but he's not the sort of editor who warrants long blocks. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:59, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Since I couldn't defend my case while being blocked, I now seize the opportunity. I kinda understood one of the tenets of Wikipedia is to suppose good faith from others. As pertains the copyvio issue, I naively thought that a translation wasn't considered a copywright otherwise I wouldn't have made the error of course. That's probably why I didn't understand Fram's stand on this point. As you may notice, I'm not a native English speaker, which may help have another point of view about my participation. I'm reproached to act like I was a stubborn teenager who refuses to follow the rules. How wrong some are. Didn't J. Wales said that one shouldn't hesitate to break the rules? As a matter of fact, I'm not trying to break the rules, I apply them as best as I can. Just, I do not always understand the messages left on my talkpage.
    • The very first days I became involved here I was sternly scolded by User:Ssilvers for the use of i.boxes. From this day I've completely let down said i.b. Fram told me not to use the {{not to confuse}} template so I stopped the very same day. Then I was told not to use translating machines (why?). I've created + 3,200 pages here and so far nobody raised the issue of the quality of my translations. They're not 100% perfect of course and sometimes some user corrects what needs to be corrected (rarely).
    • Boleyn warned me about the lack of references in some of the articles I translate from German. As easy as it is to find millions of inline refs regarding Bob Dylan or Abe Lincoln, finding refs about an obscure German tenor of the 19th-century isn't. Yet, I do now make research on the German internet and find bits of references.
    • Not to mention my near total unability to deal with htlm.
    • What more can I do?
LouisAlain (talk) 18:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was not aware of the sandbox version, I only saw the article pop up on my watchlist (where it was courtesy of my earlier deletion). I dropped a block notice at his talk page, explaining at length why they were blocked, so I don't get the "isn't a block notice needed" part of your statement. And here it is a 1-month block, because Martinevans has a history of copyvio problems, and was aware of the reason why the previous version of the article was deleted and LouisAlain blocked. Why this ANI section would make a 1 month block less justifiable is not really clear. Fram (talk) 14:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
His reply to the block notice is concerning. It implies he should be allowed to add copyright violations and that others should fix them. If that's his attitude towards copyvios a 1 month block might not be long enough.--Atlan (talk) 14:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC),[reply]
Relevant sandbox edits now revdeleted as well. Fram (talk) 14:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • So you blocked Martinevans for moving the article into mainspace (as you hadn't even noticed the sandbox and didn't check the history). Would you have blocked him for the earlier edit of pasting the content into userspace first?
So far you've blocked LouisAlain for one day for this content, after some discussion and no progress (which I'd see as reasonable). Yet another editor, gets blocked a whole month for the same content. What's the difference? Well a year ago, you blocked them indef, citing copyvio. Which immediately raised questions from Bishonen as to its appropriateness, and was lifted two days later. What's the common factor here? You. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:18, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The creation by MartinEvans had no indication of "moved from mainspace", the edit summary was "create again" and it was a creation, not a pagemove. So no, I didn't block them for "moving the article into mainspace", I blocked them for (re-)creating a copyright violation. I have no idea what "history" I should have checked, this was the first non-deleted entry in the history.
And, as I already explained, the different treatment is because LouisAlain had no block log (here), while MartinEvans has one, including for copyright problems; and MartinEvans was aware of the reason the article was deleted and LouisAlain blocked (copyvio), and proceeded to post his copyvio version anyway.
Finally, the previous block was lifted because "User has promised not to repeat these mistakes again". Fram (talk) 14:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I cannot pretend to be a neutral commentator here - Martin and myself have had good relations since, um, 2011 I think - but even so it appears that Fram's actions are somewhat harsh. I am not arguing that copyright violations are not a serious manner, nor that one hasn't occurred, but Martin's motivations seem to me to have been to try and help an editor (LouisAlain) who had unwittingly got into trouble. Martin stated on LouisAlain's talk page: "I've rescued the article and have reworked it, trying to avoid copyright issues."[118] To be blocked for one month for failing to remove a copyvio as a result of helping another editor seems, well, not really in the spirit of a cooperative website. Could Fram not have had words with Martin, and, if protocol demands that a block of some sort be imposed, maybe blocked Martin for a much shorter time, together with a kinder note on his talkpage? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:38, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
if it was the first time they had copyvio trouble, sure. But now? Whether they post copyvios on their own, or because they try to help another editor, seems rather beside the point. Fram (talk) 15:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fram, really, should this be how things are run on Wikipedia? The last two-day block was a year ago. After a whole year of no problems(?), a user makes one mistake, and it leads to a month-long block? To use the tired but accurate expression, does that sword of Damacles just hang over an editor's head forever? Is there no period of "calm" long enough (a year?) to "reset" the clock, such that you don't see this as a repeat violation? If someone does something, then does it again the next week, or the next month, I'd call it repeated. But if somebody stops for a whole year, I wouldn't. I hope you'd reconsider whether a month is too long and a week would be long enough. Levivich 16:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
if a user has a history of troublesome behavior then that will color whatever happens again if they display the exact same behavior though. It's not "hanging over their head" - if they don't display the behavior that got them blocked it's not a problem. MPJ-DK (talk) 16:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent)They seem to hae a habit of way too close paraphrasing, it's only now that it became so obvious again though. Compare his creation with his source, and you find things like

  • "Rich worked as a newsreader for a short time and was then a reporter for local radio stations in Bristol and Manchester. He became a weather presenter for BBC's Midlands Today in Birmingham in 2009, providing daily weather forecasts and presented regional TV news bulletins. He also produced feature reports on subjects such as the politics of climate change and the impact of weather on local food production. In 2012 Rich joined the Met Office team at the BBC Weather Centre and spent a year presenting national and global forecasts. In 2013 he was part of the team of presenters at BBC Sport's Wimbledon coverage. In late 2013 he moved to the Met Office College in Exeter for a year-long intensive training course - and is now a qualified meteorologist."

vs

  • "A short stint as a newsreader and reporter for local radio stations in Bristol and Manchester followed before he landed a job as a weather presenter at BBC Midlands Today in Birmingham in 2009. As well as fronting daily weather forecasts, Ben presented regional TV news bulletins and produced feature reports on subjects such as the politics of climate change and the impact of weather on local food production. In 2012 Ben joined the Met Office team at the BBC Weather Centre and spent a year presenting UK and global forecasts. He was part of the team of presenters who worked on BBC Sport's Wimbledon coverage in 2013. Ben moved to the Met Office College in Exeter In late 2013 to embark on an intensive year-long training course - and is now a qualified meteorologist."

I've bolded the most egregious parts, but the remainder is close enough to make it clear that this is not an unhappy coincidence, but a minimal rewrite of a copyrighted text. Fram (talk) 18:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Fram has an ugly habit of railroading good-faith but somewhat troubled editors like this by taking a legitimate but relativley minor issue, then subjecting an editor to levels of scrutiny nobody could withstand, then blowing the issues out of all proportion, all the while badgering the editor incessantly so that they feel they can't breathe without Fram coming down on them like a ton of bricks. Of course, I do not wish to make light of copyright issues, but the solution in this case was clearly discussion and education, not enforcement and blocks. If Fram can't or won't discuss and educate, they should bring the matter to a noticeboard where other editors can assist. Yes, he may be within the letter of WP:INVOLVED, but the spirit is surely that if it isn't an emergency, there are ~1200 admins who can share the load. HJ MitchellPenny for your thoughts? 19:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Part of that is so good, I'm gonna repeat it in bold:
    Fram has an ugly habit of railroading good-faith but somewhat troubled editors like this by taking a legitimate but relativley minor issue, then subjecting an editor to levels of scrutiny nobody could withstand, then blowing the issues out of all proportion, all the while badgering the editor incessantly so that they feel they can't breathe without Fram coming down on them like a ton of bricks. Of course, I do not wish to make light of copyright issues, but the solution in this case was clearly discussion and education, not enforcement and blocks. If Fram can't or won't discuss and educate, they should bring the matter to a noticeboard where other editors can assist. Yes, he may be within the letter of WP:INVOLVED, but the spirit is surely that if it isn't an emergency, there are ~1200 admins who can share the load.
    Actually, that's HJM's whole post. It's bang-on. This block is grossly excessive and reflects the draconian high-handedness we've seen before. If Fram doesn't have the patience to deal with ME123's... confusion, let's call it, about paraphrasing and copyvio, then he should hand the matter off to another admin or bring it here. This is a bullshit block. EEng 21:54, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I had not looked at MartinEvans edits or interacted with them in many months, I have not been "subjecting them to levels of scrutiny nobody could withstand", I noticed their copyvio when they recreated an article I had just deleted. I had not been badgering them incessantly. My previous post to them was in February 2018... Fram (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Fram 99% of the time but the block length for MartinEvans123 is excessive. We've had plenty of editors in the past who have repeatedly and deliberately stuck two fingers up and said "I don't care about your copyright rules", and for those, severe sanctions are warranted. This is not one of those editors. I mean, how else would you paraphrase "In 2012 Ben joined the Met Office team at the BBC Weather Centre and spent a year presenting UK and global forecasts."? You could turn the sentence around but you'd still have the same words in a different order. Black Kite (talk) 19:50, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Ben was the BBC weather presenter in 2012.cygnis insignis 20:15, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That loses a lot. EEng 21:54, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Moonriddengirl used to say quite often that some things are simply unavoidable close paraphrasing and in her understanding such situations, of which the example above seems to be one, are not a problem in law. - Sitush (talk) 22:12, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    People who do weather forecasting at the BBC are employed by the Met Office, not the BBC. So he wasn't actually employed by the BBC. I would go with "He presented national and international weather forecasts at the BBC from late 2012 to late 2013, when he commenced studies at the Met Office College in Exeter to complete his training as a meteorologist." I don't know that the Wimbledon coverage had anything to do with weather, so I would likely omit that fact. — Diannaa🍁 (talk) 22:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Diannaa, Black Kite, Fram, if it was just that phrase that was a problem we'd be home and dry. But it isn't. I hope no-one's going to start telling us that there's no other way to say "produced feature reports on subjects such as the politics of climate change and the impact of weather on local food production"? The tool picks up exact copying, but misses things like "hand-drawn maps and stick-on symbols" if the source reads "hand-drawn map and stick-on symbols". The page should be completely rewritten, and the best way to go about that is WP:CP. Any objection if I blank and list it? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it was not just that one sentence, no idea why people focus on that alone. Fram (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I did some further clean-up while you were writing this. I'm okay with you listing it if you think it needs more work. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 23:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unblocked

  • Unblocked. A 1 month block in a situation like this is unproductive, and based on the comments above (particularly Harry's and Black Kite's, but reading all comments in this subthread related to ME123) I've unblocked. Not because there weren't some close paraphrasing/direct translation problems - there were - but because the block button is a clumsy way to educate a good faith editor, and because this had little or nothing to do with the previous Youtube "copyright violations" block from a year ago. I cannot find anyone raising this particular issue with Martin in the last 3 years (working backwards; I stopped looking in 2016). ME123 has expressed respect for User:Diannaa's ability to explain copyright issues, so I've pinged her on his talk page and asked her to take a look. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the unblock Floquenbeam. Fram's action was clearly punitive rather than preventative. Fram should try talking with good faith editors in situations like this in the future. MarnetteDTalk 22:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I talked and talked and talked with them a lot during the previous issue (copyvio links), to no avail. Only a block helped in the end. Fram (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good unblock, thank you Floquenbeam. I don't think it's fair to suggest one's previous excessive block as a justification for a new excessive block on a relatively minor issue and largely unrelated to the previous "issue". This latest block appears to be contrary to the "introspection" made by Fram here ([119]). Alex Shih (talk) 22:16, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The previous block was not excessive, it was explicitly an "indef until we get confirmation that you won't understand and won't repeat the behaviour", which was what happened two days later, when they were unblocked. Fram (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just need to say that I don't have time to mentor anyone right now but will post a bit of advice — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 22:18, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think Fram may need a ban from admin actions concerning (and comments to) Martin. He's been very aggressively and (seemingly) unfairly on Martin's case for nearly three years. This is in addition to the sitewide issues pointed up by Alex Shih above. Fram is a valued Wikipedian, but his unilateral extremism has got to be stopped. Softlavender (talk) 23:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Like I said above, previously, what you call "being very aggressively on his case", was me trying to explain for a long time that his countless links to youtube copyvio's were not allowed; in the end only a block brought home the message, talking was useless. I then left them alone for nearly a year, until they recreated the article I just deleted as a copyright violation. Fram (talk) 05:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd have no problem with Fram giving me advice or friendly reminders. In fact, I would welcome that. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:18, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If Martinevans123 is unblocked and welcomes Fram's advice and friendly reminders, and if Fram is good with that, I'd invite someone to close this thread as resolved. Levivich 06:00, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't look like Fram's going down inre this block. Optimally, we all learn, and can move onward. North America1000 06:23, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fram, do you still feel that blocking me for one month was entirely justified? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes and no (i'll explain this non-answer). Yes, as I genuinely believed that you should, after your own problems with copyvio from a year before, and because you were aware this page was deleted and LouisAlain blocked, have been a lot more careful not to republish the page with copyright violations on it; and because the block a year before, had learned me that long, repeated discussions and explanations with you about what is acceptable to post and what isn't, did not have much of an effect, and only the block actually made any difference.
But no, as the block (and/or the block length) clearly doesn't have consensus, and I should have opted for either a warning or a short block instead. While some of the criticism above is unjustified (e.g. I have not been incessantly following you, I left you alone for nearly a year and only noticed this because you came to the page after I did), that doesn't mean that I can simply ignore all of it. While there is a lot of freedom for admins in how to treat violations, it doesn't mean that we can do whatever we please, and if it turns out that some block was at odds with what most admins or editors would expect, then I should learn from it. Fram (talk) 13:53, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your clear and honest explanation. I hope that you'll never "write someone off completely" from being able to engage in productive discussion ever again, even if past interactions have not been entirely fruitful. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requesting topic ban for User:Merphee regarding edits on The Australian

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This shouldn't take too long. Merphee has been editing The Australian, an Australian newspaper, to portray its political orientation as "centrist", where the overwhelming consensus from Australian editors is that the political orientation of the publication is centre-right to right wing. Merphee has been brought here before regarding disruptive conduct in July and in August of last year. Examples include using a study that says its journalists are left leaning, cherrypicking sources, and listing only Labor and Greens party recipients of the newspaper's annual "award". For these examples and plenty more, and the constant getting nowhere of talk page discussions, Merphee is clearly not here to contribute positively. Onetwothreeip (talk) 22:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support topic ban.. Yes this guy is actually Casting aspersions, has a great mind of a perfect Battleground behavior.. On top of that he fails to achieve Consensus for his edits.. Moreover he blames others of not getting it correctly while using sources to imply original research.. Often lying with fellow editors even when diffs are provided.. Some diffs here as it goes "I didn't say it was centrist in the edits I made. In fact, the sources say it is centre-right. Never have said it was centrist. So on what grounds did you delete my two edits specifically. Aas I said why did you keep the 2007 quote but not include the bit about Paul Keating but only include the John Howard quote? You avoided that question as you and onetwothreeip both constantly do. Further evidence of tag teaming and tag team characteristics and block any changes and take ownership of the article. Can you please answer the content question? It's only you and onetwothreeip who are tag teaming to block any changes to this highly biased coatrack of an article." (emphasis added to bold it).. While admittedly not confessing to Being incorrect here.. See these diffs which exactly point out he fiddling with political views as "centrist": here he did just that, repeating that same stack similar to former.. Clear signs for clear disruption to this topic.. So yes support topic ban (even for 1932- politics, if possible).. This was just a behavioral evaluation from the start, NeilN blocking him for sockpuppetry and unblocking after insufficient (correct if it is wrong) evidence.. Enough.. 182.58.164.142 (talk) 04:14, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Absolute nonsense. And this last comment is from an anonymous IP address is very suspicious. Is this onetwothreeip or Pinkbeast? Anyway, I have said all along it is centre-right and can show that. You and Pinkbeast have constantly blocked any new edits to this highly biased skewed coatrack article. In my opinion this is tag teaming. We cannot have Australia's largest newspaper painted as some extremist, radical publication, when it is certainly not. And most importantly the sources do not support your attempts to make this article into an anti-Murdoch, anti- coalition article. Disgusting. You and Pinkbeast have also constantly refused to engage in any discussion over content or proposed edits and deleted any attempts I've made to bring some NPOV to this article instead choosing to cherry pick quotes. You have both displayed every possible Wikipedia:Tag team Tag team characteristic and I can prove it. You onetwothreeip, have also been engaging in exactly the same bullying and forceful manner edit warring in other articles to get your way, under the most recent heading on your User talk:Onetwothreeip which I noticed when I was considering leaving you a message recently. You have been edit warring at 2017 in American television and as Fradio71 pointed out it clearly shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. I propose an edit ban on your editing as you are not here to get along and build consensus but only skew political articles for the benefit of political parties in Australian politics before a federal election. Your blatant tag teaming with Pinkbeast shows that you are clearly not able to work with other editors if they disagree with you which Pinkbeast does with an exact duplicated attitude toward this article and a deep hatred for any conservative political party and Murdoch. Also you have openly lied about me in your comments above. For instance, The Greens, Labor politicians of the Australian of the Year award had been in the article for 8 years! I didn't put it in there. What a lie! Absolute arrogance and ignoring of Wikipedia policy showing 'ownership behaviour' of the article and bullying tactics including this notification on this Admin page now. Merphee (talk) 04:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, thanks for that reference of this article 2017 in American television.. As you can see clearly in this diff: "Undid revision 879709234 by Fradio71 (talk) One editor supported splitting something, two others supported splitting this section in specific. There is a general consensus to split".. So that is a completely different half-cookie story provided by you.. Given a clear consensus @TheDoctorWho: just implemented it per WP:CONSENSUS it was actually @Fradio71: who performed an act of incorrect use of consensus harming it and the vital yet fundamental process of achieving consensus for it.. Now back to that topic, where does that editor(s) show a trait of "tag teaming"? Please explain and detail your diffs, correctly.. thanks 182.58.230.91 (talk) 05:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

IP address, who are you? Why not just say your username? You are an experienced editor. Could you just say your username, no reason why you couldn't just say I am user xyz? Why are you hiding behind different IP addresses here? Merphee (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, I evaluated your disruptive editing and behavioral conduct, and yes last edits are not suspicious at all.. I was referring to the block log of yours.. And connecting me to both of the editors because I showed your disruptive editing is not at all civil grab some editing habits from my range and see how it widely differs from this topics.. Thanks 2401:4900:1724:65B9:1:1:1B60:8AD (talk) 04:31, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why not use your username? Why now use a second different IP address, given you admitted you are the person above? You obviously know a lot about wikipedia and are using different devices to login and add comments. Merphee (talk) 04:53, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Slow Internet connection for now, so continue your discussion 2401:4900:1724:65B9:1:1:1B60:8AD (talk) 04:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why not just state your username IP address? You obviously are an experience WIki editor? What is wrong with just putting your username to your edits? Merphee (talk) 04:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I must suggest you to be more civil and stop being disruptive as stated above my connection was slow and the router restarted: Slow Internet connection for now, so continue your discussion.. Before making such accusations I strongly suggest you to evaluate my edits and connect the dots, do not forget to open an SPI if you are that suspicious, case closed.. Back to your disruptive editing and be on topic.. 182.58.230.91 (talk) 05:03, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Merphee: any diffs to support your said wordings about "tag teaming"? 182.58.230.91 (talk) 05:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have also found User:Merphee to be problematic. His tone is consistently combative and accusatory to anyone who disagrees with his point of view. But my comment refers to his assertion above of Anyway, I have said all along it is centre-right and can show that, this is not true [120] , [121] and [122], demonstrate Merphee has consistently claimed The Australian to be centrist (and maybe right of centre). Any editor makes changes to claim the it is centre-right is accused of painting the paper as right wing extremist or as hating Rupert Murdoch. Hughesdarren (talk) 05:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh gosh. Hughesdarren, you and Pinkbeast and onetwothreeip have all had identical points of view and have worked in unison to actively block my attempts to introduce any properly sourced edits into this biased mess of an article. I firmly stand by my accusation of team tagging.Your consistent combative behaviour could easily have ended here as i was going to report but realised I also was being uncivil at times, as each of these editors were toward me, so I was just as bad. I am not being allowed to edit this highly biased, entirely skewed, coatrack article. There is an ownership user conduct going on here. I have been trying to bring some NPOV to the article. and as soon as I edit one of the tag team reverts with no proper cause. Classic Wikipedia:Tag team Tag team characteristics. And yes, there are sources that talk of a more centrist approach! Crikey stated that "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours". "Under editor Paul Kelly it helped define Paul Keating’s “big picture”. During the Howard years it has provided both turf and fuel for the culture warriors of the Right".[1] This is what a centrist approach is, is it not! And then others have said more right leaning. But we cannot leave out what sources like Crikey say. That is giving undue weight to sources that say the opposite. We need a NPOV throughout the article and give due weight to all major sources. Crikey.com are a reputable, quality source as the three of you know. I was going to bring this to ANI for tag teaming and bullying. I cannot introduce any new sources or NPOV. This article has been hijacked. It is disgustingly biased and highly skewed trying to paint Australia's largest newspaper as some radicalised, agenda driven, extremist publication when it is read mums and dads of Australia. There is some very worrying use of Wikipedia here. But I fail to see what I have actually done here. My opinion all along is that The Australian is centre-right. But yes, yes, yes some sources like the Crikey source above, say it is more moderate. And you 3 and one other member of the tag team will not allow me to add anything to this biased skewed POV driven article. Disgusting. What exactly am I here for? Merphee (talk) 06:06, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Crikey Bias-o-meter: The newspapers". Crikey. 26 June 2007. Retrieved 23 December 2018. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: dead-url= (help)

I think Merphee's conduct here proves further what I said in my opening. When more than one person disagrees with them, they see some sort of conspiracy in it. They've been warned multiple times, including here at WP:ANI. Onetwothreeip (talk) 06:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But it has just been you, Pinkbeast and Hughesdarren, the members of the Tag Team. And I stand by my accusation of 'article ownership' and tag teaming. It is well grounded. This policy explains it to a tee. Wikipedia:Tag team. The Tag team characteristics are all met. And the Goals of tag teams are all consistent. Classic tag teaming in my opinion after reading the policy and highly disruptive and damaging to Wikipedia. Particularly on topics like Australia's largest newspaper. Trying to harass me further by bringing a case here for me simply trying to bring some NPOV to this highly biased and horribly skewed article and when you have been so uncivil toward me is also consistent with tag teaming. However I have also been uncivil toward you. Merphee (talk) 08:12, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, given his recent comment, it further proves the inability to reach a consensus when more than one editors disagree.. Moving on to point (User:Merphee's) inclination over this, he is also using original research he interpreted those words provided by the source [123] and used those sentences, to refactor and analyse a newer piece of statement not provided by the source itself; because of which a secondary source should also be given to establish it (those statements, in particular), if possible a explicit stating of a Tertiary source, as well.. Not only that is a real problem, he has a combative attitude, and approaching others with inappropriate WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour is a common thing.. One recent example would be this diff were he wrongly and woefully accuses without any evidence or proofs.. This is disgustingly incorrect by your side, hence I stand my support on this topic ban of Merphee.. 182.58.230.91 (talk) 06:29, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I should have also pointed out there have been similar issues with Merphee at Talk:Emma Husar, Talk:David Leyonhjelm and Talk:George Christensen (politician) and on their articles, all about Australian politicians. Onetwothreeip (talk) 07:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC):[reply]

Why won't you just give your Username, IP address? You have obviously got a bias against me based on me having a different opinion than you. You are obviously an experienced Wiki editor. Why are you using your IP and not your username? Can't you just say I am username xyz. It would really help here. The only other editor I've had problems with was HiLo48, your friend onetwothreeip. But HiLo48 hasn't been around for a while.Merphee (talk) 08:21, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See the way you approach others and accuse certain users of which no evidence is substantially given.. That is a completely false accusatory statement neither supported by diffs nor by strong contribution leaks, overlaps and/or/also assuming this: "IP address, who are you? Why not just say your username? You are an experienced editor. Could you just say your username, no reason why you couldn't just say I am user xyz? Why are you hiding behind different IP addresses here?" presuming a falsehood drenched under particular biases, and repeating the same claims: "Why won't you just give your Username, IP address? You have obviously got a bias against me based on me having a different opinion than you. You are obviously an experienced Wiki editor. Why are you using your IP and not your username? Can't you just say I am username xyz. It would really help here. The only other editor I've had problems with was HiLo48, your friend onetwothreeip. But HiLo48 hasn't been around for a while." A big sigh.. You have shown some serious breach of conduct, behaviourally plausible unsupported forth-set accusations which are accustomed to "?" That is "question marks", I see why the topic ban will help prevent further disruption to this project.. just drop the stick or stop this misconduct, if you suspect anything just file a SPI and do not assume unless evidence is presented, if no, then I am afraid this will only lengthen that topic ban of yours for extended periods which is well attributed to your egregious behavior; this unsettling inclination towards IP editors is not acceptable at all.. It may lead to a block due to personal attacks you have being making against me (that too, repeatedly).. 182.58.243.185 (talk) 09:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting how you talk about a sockpuppet investigation as I never mentioned that. I'm just wondering why you don't use your username and are hiding behind an IP address that has changed from 2 different parts of the world in the last couple of hours? The only editors I've had issues with are this tag team at The Australian and another editor Hilo48 who worked alongside onetwothreeip. Not sure if you know him IP address? Haven't seen him around for a while. Obviously you and I have had some differing viewpoints in the past though judging by your comments and hiding behind your IP address. Why won't you give your username IP address? That's all I'm asking for. Just your username? Merphee (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BATTLEGROUND at its purest, WP:POINT at its best, no one can change you, keep questioning like this and you may be charged for incivility.. As credited earlier my connection was slow, router restarted, hence connected to my neighboring router for connection.. Any diffs to support, present it, if no diffs are there, stop it.. I evaluated your behavior and conduct issues not personal views/opinions, address them below.. Topic ban is now a necessity to prevent further disruption.. Do not make further accusations, User:Merphee or else I have enough diffs to prove your issues with civility.. Also, stay to the topic, you are incredibly obsessed with this, eligible for another ANI, IMO.. 182.58.243.185 (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As far as being uncivil. Wow, it has been awful. All 3 members of the tag team have been just as uncivil as I have. Disgraceful really. I was no better though. I also was uncivil. However I stand by my accusation of tag teaming here. Tag team characteristics to a tee. Goals of tag teams very evident. Classic teaming. This has resulted in a extremely biased, skewed coatrack of an article and no other editor able to bring some NPOV into it. Merphee (talk) 08:25, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So part of why you are her is because of your behavior while editing. As a totally univolved editor who has no read a single diff, I gotta say you are really helping make the case against you by how you act. (and if you accuse me of being part of a tag team can it be the Beverly Brothers?) MPJ-DK (talk) 01:15, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not just any tag team match, a 1AM Survivor Series. Levivich? ! 02:10, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This edit here, [124]then here for the full edit [125]to see how its been sandwiched in with added editorialising to puff it up and "rebut" something else- is symptomatic of most of their edits. Merphee then editwarred with two other editors to keep it in, (while telling them not to edit war). Of course "results from that study did not support the assumption in any way that The Australian was conservative in its political views"...because the study was not about the political views of The Australian. (it was a study on the personal political views of Australian journalists in general; all News limited journo stats were given as a single whole, nothing said about if this translated into the actual newspapers either) This was explained repeatedly on the talkpage, but they showed no signs of understanding, rather resorting to accusations of NPOV and tag teaming.

Merphee is exhausting to deal with. The construction of strawmen, with added hyperbole (noone has removed the crikey source, although there has been discussion ad nauseam as to its interpretation, noone is attempting to paint The Australian as an extremist newspaper, now this conspiracy theory)a Gish gallop of complaints regarding NPOV, with few or no sources to back up them up or constructive suggestions on how to resolve them, and repetitive bludgeoning are all visible on this page. Not to mention the seeming inability to stay on point. I'm not sure if they understand that NPOV means giving weight to the preponderance of sources, or regard it as meaning that for every statement, you need a rebuttal. They do not seem to understand or analyse critical analysis, seeming to equate it with criticism. Curdle (talk) 11:20, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Curdle, you are the final tag team member I was talking about. Had wondered why you hadn't commented earlier. My sources were good. My edits were sound. It's just that the four of you are a tag team in its classic form. There are no more tag team members. It was these four editors. The article is extremely biased and skewed in its current form. It is a coatrack article painting Australia's largest newspaper as some right winged, radical extremist publication. The four of you blocked any reasonable changes I tried to make in an attempt to bring some NPOV to the article. If there wasn't genuine tag teams on Wikipedia why would Wikipedia have a Wikipedia:Tag team policy. My last attempted edit is a perfect example. [126] This ganging up here to cover each member of the tag team is classic tag team behaviour as far as I can see in the policy. Tag teams are highly destructive. They leave extremely skewed biased articles full of POV, just as the policy outlines. Merphee (talk) 14:37, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What I also found telling was how each of you spoke about The Australian and newscorp with such personal hatred almost vengeance as if you were on some mission or crusade to make this an anti-Murdoch article. What's with that? I didn't say the Croikey.com source was deleted Curdle. That's a straight up lie and you know it. I said the sentence about Paul Keating and the fact that Crikey gave a more centrist opinion of the Australian was omitted. I added the full quote. But onetwothreeip and Pinkbeast deleted the full quote and left only the bit about John Howard. That's not due weight Curdle. What and the other two editors didn't also edit war as you have also done, Curdle? The full NPOV quote was Crikey stating that "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours". "Under editor Paul Kelly it helped define Paul Keating’s “big picture”. During the Howard years it has provided both turf and fuel for the culture warriors of the Right". By including the full quote you are giving readers a neutral point of view. What the 4 of you did though was delete the sentence about Paul Keating who is an Australian Labor Party Prime Minister and only included the sentence about John Howard (the coalition PM). So the section read, "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours". During the Howard years it has provided both turf and fuel for the culture warriors of the Right". When I tried to include the full quote, I was blocked by the four of you. This has been one of many examples of the constant tag teaming behaviour at this article. I can give many examples whereby I have worked well with other editors on other articles and on Australian forums. It is just that this article there is no doubt about it a dedicated tag team who worked against anyone opposing the attempt to paint the Australian as a right wing agenda pushing newspaper. that is just not what the reliable sources say and we need to give due weight to what all of the major sources tell us.[1]Merphee (talk) 14:59, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What I also found telling was how each of you spoke about The Australian and newscorp with such personal hatred almost vengeance as if you were on some mission or crusade to make this an anti-Murdoch article.
I have done no such thing; please produce diffs, or retract this statement. Pinkbeast (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Crikey Bias-o-meter: The newspapers". Crikey. 26 June 2007. Retrieved 23 December 2018. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: dead-url= (help)

I agree strongly that Merphee's editing is, and has always been, problematic. I had not interacted with them when I first mentioned them on AN/I, so I didn't have any reason to be biased against them when I did so; but since then, they have consistently confirmed my initial impression (except inasmuch as they've switched from writing "fuck off" several dozen times to a constant stream of hypocritical platitudes about Wikipedia policies).

They are completely incapable of dropping any stick and every talk page discussion with them is a matter of being IDHTed to death. The spiel above is one we've had several times now at the article's talk page; and, like the last several times, it completely fails to take into account - even to acknowledge - any response made. Confusing an assertion that a Murdoch paper's a bit right-wing (no, really?) with one that it's far-right extremism; not addressing the idea that what a 2007 source says about the situation in 1995 isn't a great guide to what a newspaper's like today; simply ignoring the point that a survey of the paper's journalists doesn't tell you about its editorial policy.

They're not above making statements that are simply untrue; you won't see any diffs in response to my question above, because they don't exist. Another "classic Merphee" is this diff, where they say "I didn't say it was centrist in the edits I made. In fact, the sources say it is centre-right. Never have said it was centrist"... which, this diff aside, was in a talk page section whose title, written by Merphee, makes that assertion!

It's instructive to take a look at User_talk:Merphee#July_2018 and subsequent items there; even when Merphee's right (accepting for the sake of argument, as NeilN does, that their ignorance is not feigned) they have to produce an incredible diatribe, detailing how something a reasonable person might describe as a simple mistake is the worst abuse of power by any Wikipedia administrator ever, justifying an appeal to Jimbo, ArbCom, the Wikimedia Board of Trustees - frankly, I'm surprised we didn't get up to the Governor-General and the Pope. Such an editor is not well equipped to carry out a sensible discussion when they're wrong - and whatever one thinks about the current content dispute, every editor is going to be wrong sometimes.

There's no tag team here, no conspiracy; all that's going on is that the other editors involved happen to agree about something. We keep on agreeing with each other because every iteration of this involves Merphee digging up a source that doesn't really justify what they want to write (leaving aside any idea of trying to respect the preponderance of sources, and the general way that deciding what you'd like and going fishing for sources is problematic), and slamming it into the article anyway. The problem here is tendentious editing by Merphee, who is utterly determined to get what they want into the article no matter how many editors disagree with it. Pinkbeast (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The most recent example of a Wikipedia:Tag team operating at The Australian article is this Pinkbeast. And I don't make that accusation lightly. Remember this is australia's largest newspaper we are talking about. I tried to include the full NPOV quote from Crikey stating that "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours". "Under editor Paul Kelly it helped define Paul Keating’s “big picture”. During the Howard years it has provided both turf and fuel for the culture warriors of the Right". By including the full quote you are giving readers a neutral point of view. As usual, what you then did was immediately delete the sentence about Paul Keating who is an Australian Labor Party Prime Minister and only included the sentence about John Howard (the coalition PM) which supported your point of view.
So the biased and totally skewed section then read, "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours". During the Howard years it has provided both turf and fuel for the culture warriors of the Right". You actually omitted the critical balancing sentence which gave meaning to Crikey's sentence "it has been in sympathy with the agenda of federal governments of both colours" By you choosing to delete the sentence in the middle "Under editor Paul Kelly it helped define Paul Keating’s “big picture” you completely skewed the point the source was ,making. This was the critical sentence in the middle, illustrating a fair and balanced approach to The Australian's reporting.
When I tried to include the full quote, I was as per usual blocked by you and prevented from being a NPOV to that section. Saying "there is zero support for your addition" I then asked you to explain why you deleting that middle sentence and skewed the meaning of the quote and you refused to talk about content. This is a tag teaming characteristic. You saying you are not tag teaming does not negate the facts. I believe your goal at the article and by deleting that sentence has been "Pushing a certain point of view in disregard of the neutral point of view policy either by giving too little or too much exposure to a specific viewpoint". There are so many other examples and the article in its current form gives far too much weight to The Australian newspaper being a right wing publication when the reliable sources do not support this. Merphee (talk) 23:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC) [reply]

How long does this section have to be open until we know whether a topic ban will be put in place or not? Onetwothreeip (talk) 00:19, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Onetwothreeip, would you please explain why you also deleted that sentence giving a skewed and biased perspective to the Crikey source? You have constantly refused to engage in any constructive dialogue with me over content at the article talk page and instead only demeaned and intimidated me. Merphee (talk) 00:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merphee has now reinserted the disputed edits without consensus,[127] shortly after leaving this not exactly collaborative message on the talkpage. Curdle (talk) 12:47, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Curdle, no I didn't reinsert any disputed edit. I simply made 'an edit'. One single well based, well sourced 'edit'. Independent editor Kerry Raymond over at The Australian has not reverted it. If any other editor at Wikipedia has a good reason to revert it after reading the reasons I've detailed on the Talk:The Australian Something the 4 of you have not allowed me to do at the article. I do not make the accusation of a Wikipedia talk:Tag team lightly. Anyway I've moved on. If you have any problem with the simple well based edit I pinged you and the 3 other editors for your permission, please make your reasons known on the talk page and I will listen in a civil manner. But once again the 4 of you refuse to discuss in a civil and reasonable manner any content issues or edits. And sadly if it wasn't listed here or independent editor Kerry Raymond was now watching the page, one of you would have 'swooshed' in and reverted it within a millisecond without any reason and in typical tag team fashion. Wish it wasn't so. However Wikipedia has a Tag Team policy for a reason. Merphee (talk) 21:09, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:Tag team is an essay not a policy. It appears that multiple editors are reverting Merphee at The Australian and disputing Merphee's claims on talk. That means Merphee is showing WP:DISRUPTSIGNS by repeatedly disregarding other editors' explanations. Banging on about tag teams is not an excuse to edit war indefinitely. Johnuniq (talk) 06:58, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies I thought Wikipedia talk:Tag team was a policy. Regardless, I certainly do not make the accusation lightly. I also am not involved in endless edit warring. I have tried to seek Wikipedia:Dispute resolution to this situation and resolve this in a civil manner by seeking an independent preferably overseas editor or editors to resolve these differences based on policy. I thought this is what we are supposed to do do. As soon as I suggested this to the other editors involved, I'm quickly listed here at ANI. I was also going to list being bullied and intimidated by other editors here at ANI a week ago, but decided against it as I admittedly also was being uncivil. So I thought Wikipedia:Dispute resolution would be a better resolution. This can be seen here with my last edit [128]. The fact is, I cannot make a single well sourced edit to this biased article, as 'ownership' of the article is happening and POV material is being inserted and the article on Australia's largest newspaper is currently highly biased and skewed and has turned into one of Wikipedia:Coatrack articles with opinions rather than NPOV editing and is full of cherry picked sources. As I say, I've offered to participate in dispute resolution in a civil manner to resolve this and will happily take part and accept any outcome of dispute resolution. Merphee (talk) 07:23, 28 January 2019 (UTC) [reply]
  • I've given the article four days of full protection. Despite there being an on-going ANI discussion, everyone involved is still finding ways to revert each other. You're all edit warring, even if you're not the main user being discussed here. Anarchyte (talk work) 07:50, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No we're not. Consensus is against these edits by Merphee that are being reverted. If you are accusing me of edit warring I ask you to either withdraw it, or report me for it. Onetwothreeip (talk) 08:59, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good protection I see a content dispute here. If the diffs presented so far are the best evidence of disruption, this should be closed without further delay, and the idea that this rises to the level of a topic ban is laughable. Editors inserting facts into articles with references to reliable sources? Whatever next? As for the accusations of lying above, are we really splitting hairs between "centrist," "right-of-centre" and "centre-right"? Honestly? My only note to Merphee would be: IPs are people, too, and you should extend them good faith. GoldenRing (talk) 09:08, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
GoldenRing thank you that is a good point, I do genuinely apologise to the IP for my comments, whoever they are. Onetwothreeip would you be open to using Wikipedia:Dispute resolution if you do genuinely oppose this well sourced edit I am proposing, as you haven't commented on it to date? [129] I genuinely feel like I haven't been able to make any well sourced edits without yu and Pinkbeast in particular instantly reverting me.Merphee (talk) 10:52, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If an editor claims, and continues to claim without providing evidence, that editing against consensus is ok because other editors are part of a conspiracy, I think it has gone beyond a content dispute.

Inserting "facts into articles" that are not supported by the "reliable sources" [130] that purportedly back them up is either manipulation of sources, or inability to read them and a behavioural problem. Changing text so that it misrepresents the sources that back it up is the same thing.[131] and again [132]. In fact, this current drama started when Merphee removed that particular statement altogether [133], after having agreed to it to resolve a previous ani discussion here. While of course editors can change their minds, removing it without any discussion whatsoever was pretty WP:DISRUPT, considering the amount of time and the ani case spent to get to that point of consensus. Curdle (talk) 13:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your first diff shows text which is perfectly consistent with the source given; the study does indeed give no support to the idea that The Australian is conservative-leaning. It doesn't disprove it either, and I'd remove this sentence for adding nothing useful to the article, but the charge of misrepresenting sources is false. If you don't understand that source from The Conversation as accusing The Australian of "promoting" a conservative agenda, then I have to assume you haven't read it (it describes the paper as "campaigning vigorously", "stridently conservative", a "vehicle for exerting influence on policymakers"). Your third diff shows him attributing a view to Margaret Simons, cited to an article by... Margaret Simons. I'm puzzled what you think is false here. Your link to a "previous ani discussion" is in fact a link to Talk:The Australian. Did you just assume no-one would look at your diffs? As it stands, pretty much your entire paragraph is a series of trivially-disprovable aspersions and I think you should strike them. I don't think Merphee's edits are wonderful or that there are no problems here; I'm saying that the evidence presented so far doesn't support what is claimed for it. GoldenRing (talk) 13:56, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies if my post was confusing, but with all due respect, you seem to have got a lot of what I wrote backwards. I did not describe this as "misrepresentation of sources", but "manipulation of sources, or inability to read them" I have no idea wether Merphee realised that study didn't have much to do with the statement they put in, but as you agree, it pretty obviously did not. The problem is that they didn't, and that they edit warred to keep it, ignoring pretty explicit edit summaries, then launched into accusations of tagteaming rather than discussion on the talkpage. And in fact they still do not seem to understand that it adds nothing, and is blaming tagteaming for its removal, even here.[134]
I'm glad you agree that "the conversation" clearly does support "promoting" because that was what I changed it back to,[135] if you read the edit summaries. It was Merphee's edit that was attempting to change the wording to something just..odd sounding. It also shows that I stated amongst the reasons that it was a summarisation supported by 2 other, different sources. Which I had to repeat the next day [136] reverting Merphee's next change; there are 3 sources from 3 different papers, by 3 different authors, so attributing the statement solely to Margaret Simmons is misrepresenting them. Also symptomatic of problems regarding sourcing.
And it was nearly the exact wording, and exact sources that they had agreed to in the talkpage diff, and at ANI. "As far as The Australian article page it seems Curdle and I have reached a consensus [22] and unless anyone objects Curdle will put in their suggested edit which seems quite reasonable to me and satisfies my concerns with the previous version.Merphee (talk) 12:25, 8 August 2018 (UTC)" is the exact quote, searchable in [137] for the case.(Sorry, but I cant seem to give a proper diff for an archived Ani, otherwise I would have before, in preference to the talkpage one).
Because of this difficulty, I did not describe the diff as being from ANI, but "to resolve a previous ANI discussion"- Admittedly my wording could have been clearer, but as it was so obviously from the talkpage, and other edits on that page, and the diff, mention the ongoing ANI case, I didnt expect to be accused of trying to fake diffs. Apologies if I did not make the sequence of events clear enough. The Australian talkpage diff provided from 8th August was during an Ani case brought (not by me) over dispute about wording, and resolved by the introduction of that statement and sources. (Well, the wording dispute was, fallout at ANI continued).
That is why it was disruptive to remove it without discussion.
Yes, its all mindboggling trivial, but its part of a longstanding pattern of what is either just not understanding sources, or attempting to puff up ones that appear to agree with their POV, and diminishing ones that do not. It is exhausting to deal with. If it is not enough for a topic ban, ok, but I don't think it is necessary for me to strike anything. I do think I could fairly ask you to strike at least parts of your post, however. Curdle (talk) 19:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I totally reject your accusation Curdle and consider it very uncivil. It is completely unfounded and you, onetwothreeip and Pinkbeast have not produced any diffs here to justify onetwothreeips request to have me topic banned. For what exactly? In fact I consider this listing at ANI as a further intimidation technique simply for me wanting to bring some NPOV to this extremely biased section in the article and am hoping an administrator can see this attempt by onetwothreeip for what it is, an attempt to intimidate and silence me. It should also be noted that I was listed here at ANI directly after I suggested we correctly use some form of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. However as you know Curdle you and the other 2 editors have blocked every reasonable attempt I've made to edit the article based on what very reliable sources say. I have also been the only editor who as at least attempted and made effort to search for some reliable objective research on this topic of editorial bias. This has certainly been "exhausting" for me to be honest Curdle dealing with 3 identically minded editors but I didn't want to be rude and say that as i considered it would be uncivil. As far as me not understanding the reliable sources have you bothered to even read my comment directly below this one and my attempt for us to use some form of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and asking if you are willing to use this process as a resolution to this matter? Just because I have a different perspective to yours certainly does not prove or even imply what you've just stated. I therefore ask you to retract that please or strike your comment. The most recent example of you, onetwothreeip and Pinkbeast refusing to engage in any civil discussion over a proposed edit is this one here [138] which has again been completely ignored once again by each of these 3 editors on Talk:The Australian. How exactly have I not understood this source and my objection to the biased way it is currently written in the article Curdle? I make no apology for trying to ensure this article on Australia's largest newspaper is not painted incorrectly as some right wing extremist newspaper. Merphee (talk) 23:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC) [reply]
The point I was making was this whole debate about centre-right, right, centre-left, left is purely subjective and changes from one year to another with changes in editors I would assume and is fraught with difficulty. Sources currently used in this section are cherry-picked quotes from single media commentators. My own opinion is all our newspaper articles should omit this subjective section entirely. It is only asking for trouble and is far too misleading for our readers, unless objective sources from recent empirical studies can be used. The only bit of recent (2013) empirical research I could find related to this topic of political bias was this source [139]. Its inclusion was then blown way out of proportion and quickly destroyed by these 3 editors. However I think by cherry picking random subjective opinions from individual commentators painting Australia's newspaper as some extremist right wing publication as is currently the case in this biased highly skewed article is not what the sources say and is not helpful to our readers. However the tag teaming and article 'ownership' is something entirely different and of great concern. For instance onetwothreeip, Pinkbeast and Curdle are the 3 editors who have banded together and refused to discuss with me any well sourced edits I would like to make. And they have done this it in a very uncivil derogatory manner. Admittedly I have also been uncivil. That's why I've suggested we try some form of independent Wikipedia:Dispute resolution a suggestion which not only has been ignored but as soon as I've suggested it, I was dragged here by onetwothreeip. I believe this edit I wish to make to bring some NPOV into this section of the article is well founded. If any independent editor would care to read my reasoning behind this proposed edit [140] which to date, has been completely ignored by each of these 3 editors please do so and provide that opinion on Talk:The Australian. What I certainly see as being problematic is that even here at ANI these 3 editors persist in ridiculing and intimidating me, without having the decency to discuss the proposed edit. Such blocking of any edits I try to make and refusal to engage in civil discussion over content is why I've seen article ownership (not necessarily a conspiracy), going on at The Australian. Curdle would you be open to some type of independent Wikipedia:Dispute resolution? Merphee (talk) 14:17, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merphee, you do not need anybody's permission to do any of the dispute resolution. Onetwothreeip (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Onetwothreeip: He doesn't need anyone's permission, but he does need the cooperation of the other parties to the dispute. GoldenRing (talk) 09:19, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So you put words in my mouth (I agreed to no such thing) and give diffs of your own edit warring as examples of Merphee's disruption. I can see how you expect to achieve consensus here, yes. GoldenRing (talk) 09:17, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This should be resolved as soon as possible. There has been no indication as to whether the requested topic ban will take place or not. Does this mean a topic ban will not be established? Is there anybody I should notify specifically so that this can be carried out? Onetwothreeip (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be resolved too as I don't think it should have been listed here in the first place. I also think you have vexatiously listed me here for a full topic ban for no good reason but to further intimidate me and scare me away from Wikipedia and making good quality edits like the one I have recently proposed that you and Pinkbeast refuse to discuss with me. I'm also concerned you listed me here immediately after I suggested we use the proper Wikipedia:Dispute resolution process. By not engaging in civil discussion is not right. You have been quite uncivil toward me as you know. I have been uncivil at times too. I apologise. My question was do you want to participate in dispute resolution and what basis do you have for not 'allowing' me to make this NPOV edit [141] I am proposing to make at Talk:The Australian I think it is based on policy and a reasonable edit, don't you? Merphee (talk) 02:58, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Article has been protected for four days. After full discussion by involved editors, no further admin action is required. WP:DR may help resolve future content disputes.

Levivich Did you read the complaints at all? This is not about a content dispute, this is about a pattern of behaviour that Merphee has displayed on the articles and talk pages of several Australian political articles. They have been complained about at previous times here. They seem to be under the impression that there is "a dispute resolution process", meaning likely they haven't read what they keep linking. They have already been warned about their conduct. Onetwothreeip (talk) 08:29, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Onetwothreeip: My advice to you is to go seek dispute resolution. While Merphee is not doing himself any favours here with long screeds in response to just about anything, nor are you by banging on about a topic ban for which there is clearly no (uninvolved) support. Reopening this doesn't help your case, nor does your apparent denial that there are any other options for dispute resolution. GoldenRing (talk) 09:13, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a problem with dispute resolution at all. I've already indicated my support for Merphee to seek dispute resolution, that doesn't bother me at all. I didn't bring this issue to ANI to seek a resolution to whatever happens to be the latest content dispute between Merphee and others, this is about resolving the continuous disruptive behaviour of Merphee which has been happening for months across multiple articles and talk pages and user talk pages, which dispute resolution can't solve. I'm not an inexperienced editor, I wouldn't have brought the problem to this page if it was just about disagreeing with their edits. I think what's happened is that Merphee has characterised this about a dispute and about resolving that dispute, and I haven't been engaging in that because it's very tiring. Nobody has really been discussing the merits of applying a topic ban here, whether they agree with it or not. Onetwothreeip (talk) 10:06, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Onetwothreeip, "Nobody has really been discussing the merits of applying a topic ban here, whether they agree with it or not" is why I closed the thread. It seems to me the community has spoken by not speaking. Above this comment are nearly 8,000 words and 50,000 characters of discussion, which I did read before closing. Ask yourself an honest question: how many uninvolved editors do you expect are going to read that and then comment now, given that they didn't do so over the past week, when it was shorter? Of course I have no problem with you (or anyone) unclosing a thread I've closed, but if you conclude that no further action will be taken here, perhaps consider re-closing this thread yourself. Levivich 16:46, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Onetwothreeip is obviously not going to close this. Can I ask how I can report onetwothreeip for vexatiously reopening this case and further intimidating me? Do I open a fresh case here against onetwothreeip for harassment and using ANI to intimidate me. Onetwothreeip says "I don't have a problem with dispute resolution at all" yet they then quickly listed me here at ANI straight after I had suggested it and has flatly refused to resolve our difference through the proper resolution process. I realise this is personal with onetwothreeip who simply doesn't like me and I sure don't like them either however an editor shouldn't be able to use ANI to report another editor they simply don't like. I have even apologised for being uncivil myself at times, and I am willing to be civil and discuss content only and try and resolve our issues through dispute resolution processes. I thought we could move on after this case had been closed. However seeing that onetwothreeip has reopened this to further harass and intimidate me should I be gathering all of the uncivil comments onetwothreeip has sent my way or can an administrator simply close this please and we use Wikipedia:Dispute resolution to resolve this as we are supposed to do? Merphee (talk) 23:39, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
First of all my apologies to TelosCricket who went to close this section again and didn't know I was already in the process of typing another response. I've re-opened this so that I can publish this. This was their message in closing: Revenge reporting to ANI will help no one. Y'all were warned about edit warring. Y'all were advised to seek dispute resolution. The community consensus appears to be that no admin action is needed at this time. Re-opening this thread will not likely change that.
Myself and other editors have already agreed to "dispute resolution" but Merphee doesn't actually do anything to bring other people into the discussion, either in a proper or improper way. They can put it through RfC if they want, it's something like six editors against one currently, but they haven't. The 8,000 words and 50,000 characters are mostly Merphee's writings were they completely misrepresent what this is about. This is not about resolving a dispute of any article, this is about a pattern of disruptive behaviour where they continuously make edits established to be against consensus. Merphee has managed to change that discussion into one about what should be the proper way of handling some editing dispute. The dispute is already resolved, several editors not including myself have been reverting their edits that are against consensus. If there is anybody here who doesn't think a topic ban is justified, then what would justify a topic ban, why is a topic ban not justified here? Onetwothreeip (talk) 00:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I may be content with closing this and starting a new one to be more focused on their repeated disruptive behaviour rather than characterising it as a dispute about The Australian. Onetwothreeip (talk) 00:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I completely reject these false accusations assertions and consider your repeated reporting and reopening of this case and threats of new cases as intimidation and harassment. If you do start yet another case I will certainly fight back. It is an absolute and complete lie that "it's something like six editors against one currently" and I don't trry to involve other editors. This attempt here[142] to invite other editors to participate in an independent dispute resolution process disproves this false accusation. In fact, onetwothreeip has not even bothered commenting on this proposed edit. It is fresh and onetwothreeip is continuing to create trouble here presenting false information. If you do start another vexatious case against me onetwothreeip as you just threatened to do to intimidate and harass me, I will certainly fight back and show the community how abusive and uncivil you have been toward me and how this is about a personal dislike for me given previous interactions and revenge on your part. Or you could justWikipedia:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. I am willing to start afresh with you and us work together to resolve this in a civil manner. Your behaviour here is disruptive to the extreme and I wish an administrator would just close this case once and for all that onetwothreeip keeps arrogantly reopening and also consider applying sanctions on them if they continue to harass and intimidate me. Merphee (talk) 01:42, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You've only brought up dispute resolution on this page and at The Australian. Have you actually sought dispute resolution yet? Otherwise it's just you keep talking about it but not actually going ahead with it. Onetwothreeip (talk) 07:47, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

While it's certainly time that this was closed, the message written in the closing by User:EdChem is very disagreeable. If you believe that myself, Curdle, Pinkbeast or Hughesdarren have been edit warring, you should report us for that or you should withdraw it. You should also withdraw the allegation that we have been writing "walls of text" which is clearly what Merphee has been doing. Merphee wrote 21 separate posts which were mostly very lengthy, while I wrote thirteen, Curdle wrote four, Pinkbeast wrote two, and Hughesdarren wrote one. As for the usefulness of this incident report, I provided five diffs in my opening statement and other users provided their own as well, and I was never asked to provide any more. I think if this comes to ANI again, there should be some sort of restriction on Merphee making the ridiculously long and numerous comments, as I agree they are discouraging of other editors reading this. Onetwothreeip (talk) 05:06, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Onetwothreeip:If you disagree about what was stated in the closing message, and wanted to talk about it, you should have made a different section here at ANI or at AN or even over at User Dispute noticeboard. However by placing what you placed you only are continuing this matter even further. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 05:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with closing this section. Onetwothreeip (talk) 05:41, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Persistant vandalism and spamming by user YugoBasket

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

YugoBasket (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Persistant vandalism of Panathinaikos B.C. and my talk page, by this hooligan. He has been warned many times, by adminstrators and by me, but he doesn't pay any attention. He also copies my warnings from his talk page, and posting them back onto mine. This user is a hooligan of Olympiacos, and keeps reverting the edits on Panathinaikos B.C., removing sources from the OFFICIAL website of the team, claiming that they are not reliable (lol). I am asking that the user is blocked from editing, because no matter how many times he is warned, he doesn't stop his disruptive editing. Thank you. --Panosgatto (talk) 14:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Panosgatto: No, subject web sites are not "reliable sources that are unconnected with the subject and have a reputation for fact checking".-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my. Do I still need to invite YugoBasket?-- Dlohcierekim (talk)
Guess not.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)I just blocked both editors for 48 hours for edit-warring (they were both at about 10RR) before I saw this report. Neither editor seems to be attempting any discussion over what may be a valid content dispute. There is the start of a discussion on the talk page involving some now indeff'd editors and I get that Greek sports seems to be a contentious area but that's not an excuse for blind reversions of each others work. Nthep (talk) 15:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"nobody's right when everybody's wrong". Give 'em time to refine their arguments.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nthep: You blocked YugoBasket for 48h and Panosgatto for 24h.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:30, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Damn, I meant 48 hrs - reblocked. Nthep (talk) 16:35, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Revdel request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, Could someone revdel from here to here please - How this has remained for 4 years is anyones guess but it should probably be hidden, Many thanks, –Davey2010Talk 23:02, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. It's better to ask privately (via email) of one of the people in Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to handle RevisionDelete requests or even go straight to the oversighters. Instructions for that are at WP:OversightDiannaa🍁 (talk) 23:26, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Diannaa, My apologies hindsight's a lovely thing, Just didn't think about OS sorry, Anyway thanks for kindly dealing with this, –Davey2010Talk 23:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

redacted

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I thought it advisable to report this comment. --Ebyabe (talk) 03:12, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Emailed emergency@. --Rschen7754 03:19, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Scheiße, Wikipedia. I take my eyes off you for a couple of hours. Seriously, revdel'd; probably needs oversight. In future, just go straight to Special:EmailUser/Emergency for this sort of thing.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Zeinass racial insult

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This is also on WP:AIV and WP:SPI for block reasons, but can the racial insult please be removed from this edit summary ? (after a block if necessary). --Muhandes (talk) 10:55, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done dealt with by Zzuuzz. Nthep (talk) 14:46, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Any CU interested in a new rabbit hole?

A couple of days ago, I discovered a suspicious bunch of spambots and reported them to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JedUba5608719345. See also this enlightening discourse. JedUba5608719345 is not the oldest account of this porn-spamming batch; that honor probably belongs to TuyetMcclanahan (talk · contribs · count).

Naturally, it gets more complicated... some digging reveals similar spambots going back years, albeit spamming different links. I have blocked these additional accounts as spambots of the same feather, many of which are clearly JedUba5608719345:

List

Domains:

Pinging Edgar181, who has dealt with this farm. Was curious if any CU wants to take a closer look. Thanks very much for your help, GABgab 21:27, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've blocked a bunch of accounts like these based on behavior (creating an account, immediately creating a userpage with a distinct pattern including an external link, then never editing again). The domains appear to be different each time - there are as many as there are accounts. It may be worth starting a Wikipedia:Long-term abuse page to document the problem and have something to point to when editors report them or admins block them. -- Ed (Edgar181) 21:38, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That style you describe, Ed, has been going on all over the web for years. Whether it's user pages, article comments, or whatever reader input the site supports. It's not just one spambot operator, but thousands of them, all most likely using similar spambot software. I don't see any benefit in making a list at LTA for all that stuff, just RBI. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What Boing! said. Also just noting that #wikimedia-stewardsconnect and m:SRG are probably the quickest way to deal with spambots in general and get the underlying IPs blocked globally. That's where I'd report any new ones (and is how I deal with them personally most of the time.) TonyBallioni (talk) 23:19, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd somewhat echo what others have said, this has been going on for years, and there's probably at least a couple per day. They have a generic name, m:NTSAMR (compare this). I would say that, though Stewards are useful as it can be a global problem, local CUs do sometimes take an interest - not to identify any sockmaster, but just to do some cleanup where the stewards don't reach. It's an endless task though. WT:WPSPAM can be useful to collate and blacklist the stuff. -- zzuuzz(talk) 10:39, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS, you can add WoodrowAlves493 to this list (@MER-C:). -- zzuuzz(talk) 10:39, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, to clarify, I wasn’t saying we don’t do checks here (I do, usually when MER-C or someone else pings me.) More of, steward involvement is usually quicker than an SPI and can get the underlying ranges globally blocked. We can of course do some things they can’t as well, but in part because of reporting problems here (which SPI to file, AIV admins thinking bots are good faith new users, etc.) SRG/#wikimedia-stewards tends to be the easiest way for most people to get attention to the problem. All spambots can be locked on sight, and the reporting of them at meta is much less complicated than here. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:44, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Concern about lack of timely SPIs

I'm concerned that two SPIs have gone without attention and would like to know if we need more admins reviewing them. I attempted to ask that at the second SPI that was closed because they were "too old" but Bbb23 reverted my questions without explanation [143] [144] [145], although the third came after he archived the lack of investigation and he then threatened to block me for doing so. I don't want to be a dick, but I do want to prevent from socks from thinking that they can "get away" with it. Not reporting Bbb23, but asking whether SPIs need help and how I can do so. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting way of not reporting me. I reverted the first time because of the "attacking" way Walter's comments were couched: "Are admins over worked or do you just not want to investigate some cases?" Cases involving IPs are closed frequently because the IP edits become too old. There's no point in blocking IPs who stop being disruptive. Are they getting away with it? Maybe so, but IPs often get away with things, but if they stop, then that should be the end of it. In this instance, I gave Walter a roadmap in case the disruption resumed ("If the disruption resumes, request semi-protection"), which is more than is usually done. After that, Walter started reverting me, which is not the way to handle his dissatisfaction. Eventually, I threatened him with a block. None of this is a good expenditure of my time - or Walter's.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for explaining and assuming good faith. I really do want to know if the admins are overworked and why two SPIs were closed without investigation while other SPIs are frequently acted on withing an hour of being reported. So the reason is why are they not investigated as quickly? The roadmap would not work for the previous case as it affected a range of articles, not one. And quite frankly, if admins are too busy to investigate a simple WP:DUCK SPI case, I doubt that they will have the time to protect one or more articles. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The comment about protection was sound for this report. I don't know about the other one you refer to. Again, as to this case, my closure was based on an investigation. Finally, don't presuppose what will happen when you request protection - or any other kind of administrative action. You're making far too many baseless assumptions, both about SPI and about administrators.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:29, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/104.162.103.159 is the other case and you closed it. This shows that other admins are not stepping in. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:53, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I recently complained to Bbb about his overly-aggressive conduct at SPI, so I'm sensitive to a SPI conduct complaint coming so close to one I raised. In my case, Bbb offered a reasonable motivation after the fact, and I think he has here as well. However, having a reasonable perspective isn't a cop-out for out of line conduct, and I was literally just trying to explain this to him. Bbb was fine to close the SPI report and refer the user to RFPP. That's not really a big deal, and perhaps Walter was even being obnoxious complaining about that result. But, when he responded with annoyance at his report being closed as stale, after having taken over two days to have been actioned, Bbb's response to not only delete his comments, but to rollback him, and threatening to block him, was not appropriate. In fact, according to WP:ROLLBACKUSE, it's a straightforward abuse of an administrative privilege, that can result in revocation of the mop. I recently speculated about whether the lack of participation at SPI was related to excessively impatient and aggressive conduct from the "SPI team", and whether or not Bbb is intended to be the subject of this report, the question again comes to the forefront. ~~Swarm~~ {talk} 09:17, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User Smittypots

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Smittypots (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

This user has been around since late 2017 and has less than 1,000 edits. I had not noticed this user until today, while working on an AWB run to locate, remove, or remedy all instances of Wikipedia being used as a source in the articles. I am about 15% complete with the run, which has about 3,500 instances. So far, I located two instances where Smittypots inserted the ref to WP.

That's all fine and good. I can fix up the inevitable remaining instances, but after leaving a message on Smittypot's blank talk page regarding using WP as a source, I noticed that Lapadite77 messaged them in June 2018 for the same issue. Lapdte77's message came about two months after Smittypot's one and only short term block for adding unsourced material.

I rarely use this forum, but thought that this was worth mentioning for the greater good. I have notified the editor. Here is an example [146] Dawnseeker2000 18:05, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looking at their very first edits, it is easy to see they had substantial experience with Wikipedia before registering this account. Dennis Brown - 18:20, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Probably, like me and others, they first started editing editing anonymously as an IP account. Liz Read! Talk! 23:24, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Smittypots: Can you please acknowledge 1) that you will not use Wikipedia articles to source other Wikipedia articles and 2) where you learned to do this? This was brought here to solve a problem and once we have this information we can close this thread. Thank you, Dawnseeker2000 15:00, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure why this is here. We have an example of an inexperienced user who is unfamiliar with a particular policy being rushed into litigation. Instead of threatening blocks and dragging them into court, why not help them learn how to do it right? A confusingly-worded boilerplate warning is almost always a complete waste of time in communicating effectively, I dislike most of the templated warnings for this reason, unless it is plainly obvious the person is actively trying to destroy Wikipedia. It seems pretty clear here this is an infrequent editor who has not often interacted with the rest of the community and may be unaware of some arcane aspect of Wikipedia policy because no one discussed it with them before. Please, Dawnseeker2000, take the time it would have taken to work up this ANI report, to instead craft a well worded, friendly conversation with the person to explain the problems to them, and perhaps even fix some of their mistakes and show them how to do it right so they can become better at editing. That's the whole point of WP:AGF. --Jayron32 19:10, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would not have brought this here if another editor hadn't already taken the time to clearly communicate what the problem was or if Smittypots hadn't blanked every communication that was posted on their talk page. And by the way, this isn't court; it is a place where editors can communicate about issues in a public (visible) place. Also, what are you talking about boilerplate warnings for? And finally, I am making the corrections. No response necessary (It looks like Jayron32 did not read my original post, or maybe they just didn't follow the links or fully understand what I'd said). Dawnseeker2000 23:52, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please close. I will monitor the situation by continuing to scan the database for instances of WP being used as a source. Thank you Dawnseeker2000 00:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dawnseeker2000: I acknowledge the following: 1) to stop using Wikipedia articles to to source other Wikipedia articles, and 2) was unclear to me. Learn to do what?.

Thank you. For the second part, I was curious if you had the idea to use Wikipedia as a source on your own or if you saw it done that way in one of the articles and assumed that that was OK. Thanks a ton for responding, and if there's ever anything that comes up that you're unsure of or want a second opinion on, feel free to post on my talk page and ask. This is a very complex web site with a lot of very different people contributing. Thanks again, Dawnseeker2000 04:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Empty edit requests

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this (but I don't know where else to put it). An IP editor, 103.213.128.152, has spent the past two days flooding Talk:2019 Formula One World Championship with edit requests (I count four) that do not have any actual content; there is just a section header, edit request template and signature. 1.129.105.99 (talk) 22:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have left the editor a message asking if they are having trouble. Tornado chaser (talk) 23:06, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Mrspaceowl

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Mrspaceowl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Persistent WP:NOTHERE behavior from this (relatively new) editor. They've already been blocked once for edit-warring. Now they're re-inserting their preferred text on Farmers and Fishermen: Two Centuries of Work in Essex County, Massachusetts, 1630-1850 (edit talk history links watch logs) after not getting the results they wanted on the talk page (earlier diffs here and here), repeatedly removing others' talk page comments (here and here), and making apparent legal threats here. I've tried explaining normal dispute resolution procedures on their talk page, which they replied to by saying the process looked "overly beauracratic ... and (likely) to uphold a few established Wikipedians above all others". In short, this user appears to have little interest in working collaboratively with others to build an encyclopedia. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid I agree that continued ability of this user to edit Wikipedia is not beneficial for the project.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:01, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's traditional for the community to require more pain before a user like this is indeffed but a firm reaction would save a lot of trouble. The argument at Farmers and Fishermen is particularly silly because it concerns a book and Mrspaceowl wants to add text about a mention of the book in an unrelated film (text which, if belonging anywhere, would be in the article about the film). On talk, Mrspaceowl responded to calm explanations with off-topic remarks about emotional strength (diff). They then twice removed a reasonable reply and made a very strange complaint when reverted (diffs above). Johnuniq (talk) 10:41, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Black Kite: you previously blocked this user, with the suggestion that the next one might be permanent/indefinite. Do you have anything to add here? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 22:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously, Mrspaceowl has some room for growth in terms of understanding Wikipedia's policies and standards regarding user conduct. Removing other editor's comments is not appropriate, nor are some of the other things pointed out above. However, what the filer is calling for seems excessively harsh, and there doesn't seem to be a strong enough body of evidence to support WP:NOTHERE. Sangdeboeuf's warnings on MrSpaceOwl's talkpage are mostly correct; however, the presentation could've been more tactful, and it's understandable that a user might become defensive or intimidated in response to what they perceived to be repeated confrontations by another, more experienced editor. The reported user deserves a warning over edit-warring and should be directed to WP:TPG, and should definitely take some time to cool off before returning to the page where the dispute occurred. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 00:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And what is the filer calling for, exactly? I haven't made any specific request for action that I can see. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:28, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
By citing WP:NOTHERE, you seem to be suggesting an indefinite or permanent block. Perhaps you could clarify? Wikieditor19920 (talk) 00:33, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I think your suggestion of "time to cool off" is in the ballpark. Maybe a month-long block would do it? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:45, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cool down blocks are discouraged. LizRead! Talk! 04:01, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest a nice WP:COOLDOWNBOCK instead. EEng 04:32, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Deference to the wisdom on display here. Mrspaceowl (talk) 05:26, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciate your comment above that you'll defer to the wisdom others have contributed here. However, just 25 minutes later, there's this. Please don't do stuff like that. Thanks, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:15, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gosh, you think that was Mrs. Pace Owl? Whatever tipped you off? EEng 22:26, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So I'm not allowed to add incontoverably factual material of significant notability back to Wikipedia? Isn't that the opposite of WP:NOTHERE? Mrspaceowl (talk) 11:48, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No. You haven't persuaded others of your claim of "notability", and instead of listening to their objections, you keep edit-warring to force your text into the article. That's disruptive behavior. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:48, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mrs. Pace Owl just won't stop [147]. EEng 15:36, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good call!
Did you read his/her user page? This editor has an agenda: violating WP:RULES, which he/she regards as tyranny. Smacks of WP:SOCK, see the many user boxes on his/her user page: those are highly unusual for a newbie and posit the same agenda. Old-fashioned wikipedian values? What does he/she know about that? Tgeorgescu (talk) 04:09, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See his recent edits at Wikipedia:Rouge admin[148] reverted first by User:Bishonen and now by me, and his post to Bish[149] and comments on his talk page. I see no evidence he's here to improve Wikipedia. Given the context of this discussion and his recent blocks, his edits to Rouge admin was clearly WP:POINTYDoug Wellertalk 16:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Right. Since I and Doug Weller have both reverted and warned them, I suppose neither of us have any appetite for blocking. But isn't it enough? Ymblanter? Black Kite? Anybody? Bishonentalk 17:00, 3 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Done, blocked for two weeks, given some advice at the talk page, and this likely will be the last piece of rope this user gets.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:17, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good call. Bishonen talk 17:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]
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Incident from January 31 to February 2, 2019 (UTC) on Template talk:Infobox school#Proposal: Delete fields for ACT and SAT scores

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From January 31 to February 2, 2019 (UTC), User:ElKevbo repeatedly violated Wikipedia etiquette guidelines and civility conduct policy in his discussion with me on the Template talk:Infobox school#Proposal: Delete fields for ACT and SAT scores. This is not the first instance of this same user being rude to me, as he was in a previous discussion (Talk:University of Massachusetts Boston#Street address). I followed site etiquette guidelines (i.e. stating politely that I felt his comments were rude and remained polite during the discussion) and also followed site guidelines for civility warnings (i.e. explicitly stating which policies that I felt he was in violation of and followed the established four-step warning process as far as I felt that I could as a non-administrator). I believe that this incident qualifies as an example of hounding, and I respectfully request that an administrator review the incident and issue User:ElKevbo a final warning, as I do not feel that I have the authority to do so. -- Jajhill (talk) 04:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is way out of line. but on Jajhill's part. user:ElKevbo's first post to the thread was to ask the simple and polite question "What makes this information so essential that it must be included in this infobox?" [150]. Jajhill's response to this included "(Additionally, your comments strongly suggest that you should review Wikipedia's etiquette guidelines and civility conduct policies because the tone of your comments are rude, and even more so because this is not the first time you have been rude to me on a talk page discussion.)" [151]. ElKevbo's question wasn't uncivil or rude, and Jajhill] bringing up a past incident between the two was not appropriate for that thread.
ElKevbo's second post to the thread was another polite and to the point question asking for sources [152]. Jahill responded with the sources, but again claimed that ElKevbo's posts were rude.[153]
I don't know about any previous history or hounding between these two, but this ANI report does not appear to be valid in the least. I suggest a boomerang. Meters (talk) 05:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I see a lot of sound and fury, but no supporting difs from @Jajhill:. Please provide dif's of instance of actually following around where ElKevbo should not have. Dlohcierekim talk 05:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Meters: His first question was not polite. It was intentionally sarcastic. Even if it wasn't, he did not clarify his comments, as per Wikipedia etiquette guidelines stipulate. -- Jajhill (talk) 05:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It does not sound sarcastic to me in the least. Asking why information is needed in the infobox seems to be a straightforward question. Your assumption oi his intentions is not appropriate, and I see no need for him to clarify a very simply and straight forward question..I strongly recommend that you withdraw this ANI. Meters (talk) 05:38, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't hear any sarcasm in his first two questions; his irritation in his third comment (which is not a personal attack) is understandable. As Meters, I suggest you withdraw this and head back to the talk page. Mackensen(talk) 05:41, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As this thread continues to be an item, I'd like to bring up this oddity from 2017. I did not know we were still doing civility warnings. It was the last post I could find on ElKevbo 's talk from Jajhill. Something's amiss Dlohcierekim talk 05:53, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That is before this ANI notice. I'lll go look for the earlier ANI. Dlohcierekim talk 05:55, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive964#User:ElKevbo_UMass_Boston_page_edit_summaries_&_talk_page_edits:_civility_warning_request. Dlohcierekim talk 06:00, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The OP has been crowbarring 18-wheeler truckloads of grotesque trivia into articles (example here [154]) for years, and needs to stop whining and start listening to the good advice of experienced editors. EEng 06:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good God, man! You should have warned readers about the green. I've been blinded by the emerald dazzlingnes! Dlohcierekim talk 06:17, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dlohcierekim: I don't know what a diff is.
@Meters, Mackensen, and EEng: I'd be more willing to listen to your advice if you all weren't rude when you give it. The guidelines clearly state that editors should "not hesitate to politely let the others know if you are not comfortable with their tone" so I did. I did not ignore his questions. I stuck to the facts. He made no effort to clarify or apologize for any unintentional offense. I reiterated that I felt that his tone was inappropriate. He still made no effort to clarify or apologize for any unintentional offense. That is why you are wrong that his third comment was not a personal attack with profanity. But I suspect that none of you are going to see things from my point of view, and intentionally so, since these types of forums seem to be dominated by a small group of people who back each other up in internal disputes regardless of whether they are wrong or not. I'd just rather my account be deleted instead of continuing with this because I am sick of dealing with people like all of you on this site because you have destroyed any motivation for people like me who aren't part of the small club of administrators to contribute. If none of you can see that I was just trying to contribute to a conversation and I that I did nothing wrong, and I was the one who was victimized, then there is no reason for me to even bother continuing to have an account. It's been a nice 13 years, but I guess editors who aren't who aren't members of the club just aren't welcome here anymore. -- Jajhill (talk) 06:18, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
13 years, you say? Then it's high time you learned--Wikipedia:Simplest diff guide. It isn't hard. Dlohcierekim talk 06:21, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. You come here with a spurious complaint about another editor, and then complain about feeling unwelcome 'cause people point out the spuriousness of your complaint. Welcome to edit at your leisure or not, but if you bring spuriousness here, you will be called on it, as would anyone. Dlohcierekim talk 06:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dlohcierekim: Not a spurious complaint. But none of you would recognize that. Just delete my account. -- Jajhill (talk) 06:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was just trying to contribute to a conversation and ... did nothing wrong – I'm sure that's true
  • I was the one who was victimized – No, you weren't "victimized" in any way, and you've gotta stop interpreting normal interactions that way.

No one wants to see you leave, but you need to try harder to interpret other editors' interactions with you through the lens of WP:Assume good faith. EEng 06:37, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus here is clearly unanimous that ElKevbo did nothing wrong, and this should be closed before Jajhill shoots himself in the foot. I'd do it myself, but will be somewhat INVOLVED as I intend to speak to the issue at the talk page. If someone feels tossing the Australian weapon is appropriate, I suppose that is another thing, but really I dont see a block as an appropriate remedy for being way too thin-skinned, at least without a demonstrated pattern. I dont see looking for that pattern as an effective use of anyone's Wiki-time. YMMV. John from Idegon (talk) 06:55, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, no need for anything drastic. Jajhill has been given a lot to take in. Hopefully they will. If there's anyone around who could close this. . . . Dlohcierekim talk 06:59, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng, Dlohcierekim, and John from Idegon: I've tried to assume good faith on the part of editors like you for years but when you make comments like "crowbarring 18-wheeler truckloads of grotesque trivia into articles for years, and needs to stop whining and start listening to the good advice of experienced editors", when in point of fact my account is older then yours (I just checked your edit history and compared it to my own), it leads me to seriously doubt that people like you don't want to see me leave. Maybe "victimized" is too strong of word, but I do not believe that I am wrong. I am not asking that User:ElKevbo be blocked or banned, just that he be more polite. That's all. But, since none of you will recognize that that is all I am asking for, it's probably best that I just leave for good because none of you seem to actually recognize rudeness for what it is when it actually happens. Just delete my account please. -- Jajhill (talk) 07:08, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At any rate, we don't delete accounts. You are free to go-- or stay-- as you please. But whatever you choose, let it be because it is what you want to do. Dlohcierekim talk 07:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Jajhill, can you please tell me what it is want me to respond to? If there's nothing here I needed to respond to, please explain why you pinged me. Also you may want to look to any basic high school grammar textbook for the concept "antecedent". Multiple times both here and in the discussion in question here, you've used the pronoun "you" immediately after pinging multiple editors. In my (and I doubt I'm alone in this) view, one of the most uncivil things any editor can ever do to another editor is waste their time. You've done that here x3. First, this complaint initially lacked any evidence, despite the big box both in the edit window and atop the page telling you it is required. Second, you are pinging people for no reason. Third, your unwillingness or inability to write in a grammatical way is leaving us all scratching our heads. Additionally, the mere fact that you brought this case is a waste of community time. I don't know what you do or did for a living, but it couldn't possibly include any group decision making processes like committees or boards if you think that either the discussion at hand here, or the discussion that brought you here is lacking civility. My congregational church's board of directors meetings are far far more uncivil than that. I see 0 zip nada that could, even in the most liberal interpretation, be called uncivil. Lastly, please explain how it is you are privy to what ElKevbo's intentions are. I mean if you are clairvoyant perhaps you'd be so kind as to help out with our efforts to battle sockpuppetry and PAID editing. If you are not clairvoyant, you should strike your statement above speaking to Kevin's intentions. That sir, is the extent of the incivility in either this or the subject discussion. And it is coming from you. John from Idegon (talk) 08:56, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dlohcierekim and John from Idegon: No, Dlohcierekim. I'll do what the community wants, which is for me to leave (by a courtesy vanish if possible). John from Idegon, when I said "I've tried to assume good faith on the part of editors like you for years," I meant you too. That's why I pinged you when you entered the discussion. You are easily the rudest and most biased administrator I have ever encountered on this entire site. The only reason why you say that "this complaint initially lacked any evidence" is because you refuse to acknowledge what rude behavior is online within the parameters of this site's own etiquette policies. But I guess the only reason why I would say that is because I'm obviously too stupid or uneducated to understand the site's etiquette policies. (Like you said, I don't even seem to have the ability to write grammatically.) The only reason why I complained about someone using profanity in a personal attack or using indirect criticism is because that is what they did and it violates the site's civility policies. But no, like you said, I'm too unsophisticated and inexperienced in group decision making processes to recognize what rude behavior actually is. After all, you clearly do have the clairvoyance to ascertain what people do or did for a living without ever having met them. I don't need to be privy to what ElKevbo's intentions were. I felt his comments were rude, which according to my apparently simplistic reading of the site's etiquette policies is something you should be able to file a complaint about since it used to say after all "Do not hesitate to politely let the others know if you are not comfortable with their tone." (Although, I notice that it has now been conveniently changed.) No, John from Idagon, there is no reason why anyone should apologize to someone who has been rude to them, whether they have clairvoyance or not. I'm going to begin the courtesy vanishing process now if I can. -- Jajhill (talk) 10:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For those wondering what the "convenient change" is, it's that I changed [155]
Do not hesitate to politely let the others know if you are not comfortable with their tone
to read
It may help to politely let the others know you are not comfortable with their tone
My edit summary was Given a thread currently at ANI, maybe a bit of hesitation now and then is in order. EEng 19:12, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Prophecy from a passer-by: in less than three weeks, this promise of a diva retirement will be followed by a diva come-back. No need to be a mudang for that. Pldx1 (talk) 10:44, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Personal Attacks from User:86.180.2.238

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Tornado chaser (talk) 23:16, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply] 

I have warned this user before about it on Air Senegal and they wrote this on my talk page FU*K YOU AND STOP MESSAGING MY FU*K*NG TALK PAGE. JETSTREAMER IS *AY, JUST LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They took it too far. Hutyiou (talk) 17:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure this is worthy of ANI yet, but the attack message is in the style of Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Nate Speed. Home Lander (talk) 18:03, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say it is the style of someone trying to get around filter Special:AbuseFilter/225. Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Blocked, could really go to WP:AIV for this - obviously a vandal who has been blocked in the past. Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Galobtter: Who's the vandal? Can you please do something with Hutyiou (talk · contribs) [156]?.--JetstreamerTalk 18:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Jetstreamer, what are you asking for? Isn't the user merely (ineptly) copying the other person's messages? Drmies (talk) 18:14, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sorry. Striked out my previous message.--JetstreamerTalk 18:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Galobtter, Drmies, and Bbb23: On a second thought, seems the user and the IP are the same person [157].--JetstreamerTalk 18:20, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Jetstreamer, they've been blocked by Bbb23 as a sock of Fly High in the Sky. Home Lander (talk) 20:07, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you.--Jetstreamer Talk 20:57, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The Signpost vandalized

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The version of the Signpost that's sent out to users now looks like this on every user talkpage where it appears. I can't find the original to fix it. Anybody? Bishonen talk 06:02, 2 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]

And now looks like it's supposed to. Thank you, anonymous benefactor. Bishonentalk 06:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Well, I must say, mine looked fine to begin with. Dlohcierekim talk 06:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You probably clicked on it too late, Dlohc, and missed the fine big pic of Oshwah's hair and Oshwah that had been inserted. (Unfortunately there was also some less appealing text.) Bishonentalk 20:21, 2 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]
It is impressive hair, mind (says the oldie with thinning locks). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 02:11, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Using the related changes feature, I figured out that we can thank Ohnoitsjamie for saving the day here. Graham87 08:29, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I batch protected the past issues of the Signpost (well, at least the ones with more than 500 transclusions) with the help of MusikAnimal's query provided here. Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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71.208.9.225

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Resolved
Amorymeltzer blocked him. Dennis Brown - 16:18, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

71.208.9.225 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) WP:NOTHERE, likely sock. Cards84664 (talk) 16:01, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

71.215.207.160 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) as well. Cards84664 (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown: Could we give them a rangeblock? Cards84664 (talk) 16:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • They aren't on the same network. One is centurylink, the other is qwest. One could be phone, other a computer for the same person. I blocked the 2nd IP. If needed, we can use short term semiprotection. Dennis Brown - 16:41, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown: That might help more. Tack on 71.215.21.244 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) & 71.208.40.40 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) as well. Cards84664(talk) 18:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
and 71.215.240.28 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) Cards84664 (talk) 19:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Septagrite redirecting their talk page to a NSFW image

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Warning, don't click on that user's page and talk page at work or around people!

This user, reported at WP:AIV is redirecting their talk page to File:Raphe perinealis in 21-year-old female.jpg (again, NSFW). I'd block since they don't seem to be here to contribute anyway, but since talk page access would probably need to be revoked as well I think a second opinion would be wise. -- Luk talk 10:39, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Their second edit was to redirect their user page to another image in the Category:Restricted images, so they are clearly not a new user. They then tried arguing that links to such images were acceptable, and tried obfuscation by claiming prejudice - Arjayay (talk) 10:59, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think a CU block would be appropriate here. I can't say for sure who the sockmaster is, but interested parties might want to check my blocking log in the near future. -- zzuuzz(talk) 11:01, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Zzuuzz: if you haven't figured it out already, that's Architect 134. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 11:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot zzuuzz! (Damn I miss these CU tools sometimes :)) -- Luk talk 11:45, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Please block this racist troll

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Can someone please block this unregistered editor? He or she is clearly trolling. Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 03:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Holy cow. I am neither a racist nor a troll. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. wanted people to be judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin; i.e., he wanted race to become irrelevant. I stated an identical position in my recent contribution to Talk:Hillsdale College. Those who are deleting my contribution, therefore, are arguably racist.
oh, nooooohs. Dlohcierekim talk
P.S. Wikipedia policy has been violated here, because I was not notified on my user talk page that this discussion had been started. 174.24.30.208 (talk) 03:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This has got to be the most audacious "No, you" responce I've ever seen. If you can't see how that responce is trolling, then you either cannot or will not make a distinction. —A little blue Bori v^_^v Bori! 03:58, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's very offensive. What's wrong with you?--Cristina Neagu (talk) 03:57, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reviewed it. You don't seem to be suggesting an edit to the article, but merely seeking a conversation. GoodDay (talk) 04:00, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@174.24.30.208: Welp. Clearly WP:NOTHERE. Clearly trolling on a talk page, and article talk pages are for discussing articles, not asking stupid, offensive, irrelevant questions.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:19, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Revdel'd Let me no if I missed.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:32, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Consider yourself free to no anytime you want. EEng 04:47, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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WP:NOTHERE editing by "Mahdi.305"

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This is just the tip of the iceberg:

  • Changed sourced figures on the "Azerbaijan" page. No edit summary/explanation. 1st attempt.[158]
  • Changed sourced figures on the "Azerbaijan" page. No edit summary/explanation. 2nd attempt.[159]
  • Changed sourced figures on the "List of countries by GDP (PPP)". No edit summary explanation. 1st attempt.[160]
  • Changed sourced figures on the "List of countries by GDP (PPP)". No edit summary/explanation. 2nd attempt.[161]
  • Changed sourced content on the "Azerbaijan" page. No edit summary/explanation. 3rd attempt.[162]
  • Changed sourced figures on the "Jewish population by country" page. No edit summary/explanation. 1st attempt.[163]
  • Changed sourced figures on the "Azerbaijan" page. No edit summary/explanation. 4th attempt.[164]
  • Changed sourced content on the "Georgia (country)" page. No edit summary/explanation.[165]

Though "Mahdi.305" has received numerous warnings from various users,[166] he doesn't bother to respond. Looking at the compelling evidence (continued disruption, not interested in cooperating/responding), its safe to say that he is not here to build this encyclopedia. - LouisAragon (talk) 01:49, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Indeffed. A random look at their contrib log makes me think this is deliberate vandalism. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Migsmigss

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Migsmigss (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been causing disruption on pageantry articles since they first began editing the Miss Universe 2018 (edit talk history links watch logs) and Catriona Gray (edit talk history links watch logs) articles. They have been widely disruptive and refuses to compromise with other editors, forcing their way in (as can be seen here, here, and here). Many of their edits consist of them monopolizing these articles, and whenever another editor expresses a different viewpoint, Migsmigss accuses them of vandalism and threatens to have them blocked (even though the edits are far from vandalism). It appears a lot of their edits constitute Filipino nationalism. During Miss World 2016, many Filipinos were angered that Stephanie Del Valle defeated Catriona Gray, and Migsmigss took it upon themselves to continue to re-add highly disgusting, libelous, and wholly negative content to Del Valle's article that honestly should be hidden from view. What Migsmigss added has the potential to have a detrimental impact on Del Valle's life and career.

As I was an editor who caught several of Migsmigss's edits, I assume that they began to dislike me, and then began personally harassing me. I logged on to Wikipedia today to discover that they had gone through my recent edit history and simply undid all of my edits. This can be seen here, here, and here. As annoying as this, it is not the first time that a bitter editor had done this to me, so I reverted their reversions and left them a warning on Migsmigss's talk page regarding harassment of other editors. My warning was greeted with a threat from Migsmigss, with them stating "I might be forced to also tag you as a Wiki vandal and have you banned", also threatening me with them stating they will "submit [their] evidence archives".

I first reported the entire incident to the admin intervention against vandalism noticeboard, but was redirected by the admins to take this to content dispute instead. I believe that something needs to be done about this situation, and editors who continuously are breaking the rules and harassing other editors should not be left with no consequences. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:47, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, this is in response to the above allegations.
I reverted User:Jjj1238's description of judges for neutrality; the nationalities of the judges are irrelevant, rather, included more information on their advocacies, professional life, and charities. The nationalities - and race - of these judges have been blatantly used to sway the opinion of readers that the judging panel was non-objective in its decisions during the contest, an unfounded rumor without proof, evidence, or valid source reference, therefore rendering it unneutral.
Her edits at the Miss Universe 2018 page are leaning towards bias, racial discrimination, ethnic discrimination, and vandalism.
Thanks.Migsmigss (talk) 00:56, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update: Following me reporting Migsmigss, they came to my talk page to accuse me of racism and bias (both absurd claims). After explaining to them my positions, they threatened me once again and said they will get me blocked. After the discussion ended, I decided to archive my talk page (unrelated to the dispute, it was just overdue), and Migsmigss responded by reverting my own edits on my own talk page several times. This clearly goes against Wikipedia policy. This can all be seen here and here. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 01:36, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some sort of action. Migsmigss is a prolific edit warrior, both in article space and non-article space. This user edit wars on the most stupid of things; check out Talk:Catriona Gray#Is music theory a proper noun?, and the amazingly awesome diatribe he spews out. This user edit warred on a user talk page that doesn't belong to him, and reverted for at least six times (Migsmigss' count!). Anything other than a block on that last occurrence would be disappointing at most from the sysops here. Howard the Duck (talk) 02:09, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]


In response:

I will continue to monitor contributor User:Jjj1238's activities, as he has described me as an edit warrior, but not explaining why our arguments have been so. Again, his edits and contributions as evidenced on the Miss Universe 2018 page and history have been shown to lean on racism, bigotry, and the stirring of negative discussion on the event itself, the women involved, and their causes.

I will not be bothered by his obvious mudslining on my person, but will continue to be vigilant of his biased contributions and obvious racism. If we are to make Wikipedia a non-biased, neutral platform, editors and contributors - and yes, administrators - should watch out for contributors who are racists, bigots, and stirrers of conflict and negative-leaning issues, such as and very intensely exemplified by User:Jjj1238. Tagging User:Materialscientist for neutrality, and for admins's information.

Further, many other contributors have posted messages on User:Jjj1238's talk page, complaining of inconsistencies in his edits, especially on race and ethnicity, for example, his edits on Miss Universe 2017 Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters's page, and the obvious inconsistencies he has blatantly made to confuse the race of Demi, as evidenced by the complaints he had on his talk page - before his obvious archiving to maybe save face.

I am a relatively new contributor and editor, but I will never back down from intolerance bias, bigotry, or any other forms of discrimination, injustice, especially racism.

Thanks. Migsmigss (talk) 02:20, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Migsmigss, I will continue to monitor contributor User:Jjj1238's activities indicates that you have been monitoring their activities, which could well be a form of WP:HOUNDING. In what way have you been following their contributions? Bellezzasolo Discuss 02:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Bellezzasolo. Clarifying; this means to say if this contributor will still insist on race and nationality of judges, subtly implying a stirring of a negative issue on the judging at Miss Universe 2018. Said contributor has consistently used and brought up race and nationality - my own, included - in the arguments and discussions, so as to insist that my motivations in editing are my nationality, despite the fact I only added more details on the judges to show their professional history, philanthropy, and advocacies, and not downsizing them to just their ethnicities and nationalities, as what this contributor has so subtly - but still observably - done in his edits, showing his biased commentary, bigotry, and racism.

I am a new contributor, yes, and I am still finding my way here, but I will not stand for a contributor who will insist on his seniority just to further untruths and misrepresentations, especially those that espouse injustice, discrimination, bigotry, and false information. Thanks. Migsmigss (talk) 03:00, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Migsmigss, I'm sorry, I don't see "obvious racism". Regarding the comment I think you're talking about - ...Perhaps you are nervous people think Gray only won because the judging panel was half Filipino? Do not project, no one is thinking this... - [167]. It's a real push to see this even slightly reflecting on your nationality. Regarding descriptors of people, WP:ETHNICITY is a relevant guideline - at the core of it though, that's a content dispute. Ethnicity disputes get heated, but please assume good faith. The last conclusion I would be jumping to is racism. If there's something I'm missing here, please let me know. Bellezzasolo Discuss 03:27, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Bellezzasolo. Please visit the editing history at Miss Universe 2018, and review the edit done by Jjj1238 and the edit I did on the judges descriptions. Jjj1238's edits were focused on nationality alone, without the judges' professional history, career backgrounders, and advocacies, etc., and upon editing, he described his edit as "simplifying and alphabetizing" which showed and resulted to neither. My edit was focused on these, the judges professional history, career backgrounders, and advocacies, etc. I refrained from including only their nationalities, like in other Miss Universe pages, as these are irrelevant to their task of judging. This will also avoid the rumours and issues, all unfounded, and leaning towards bias, that the two Filipino judges made Catriona Gray, which was the obvious aim of Jjj1238, by including only judges' nationalities and deleting all other information about them. I believe Wikipedia has always stood for neutrality and factual information, not on hearsay or bias? Jjj1238 has also repeatedly pointed out nationality as a core argument, when in fact it is irrelevant in all our contentions. Thanks. Migsmigss (talk) 03:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Adding complaints of fellow contributors here on User:Jjj1238, for your reference, as User:Jjj1238 has decided to archive his talk page after I have responded to his arguments and pointed out his obvious vandalism, bias, and racism. For your reference. Tagging User:Materialscientist for neutrality, and for admins's information.

Migsmigss (talk) 02:47, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

minus Removed

If you want to add diffs, that's up to you, although most of these are way too old, but do not copy and paste the material.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. Thanks, Bbb23. Was just trying to prove a point. Anyway, if I will need to, I can still bring those diffs up. Thanks for the assistance. :) Migsmigss (talk) 03:08, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm going off-wiki. Otherwise, I would block Migsmigss, for the repeated personal attacks if nothing else. I'll leave it to other admins to sort out.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:12, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bbb23, why would you say "personal attacks?" Which of my arguments qualify as personal attacks, and which of Jjj1238's arguments have you not seen and reviewed?

I am new here, but I won't stand for this kind of harassment. Migsmigss (talk) 03:25, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Migsmigss, a personal attack on Wikipedia is when you stray from discussing an editors contributions into discussing an editors perceived motivations (e.g. which was the obvious aim of Jjj1238 is a personal attack, see also Wikipedia:Casting aspersions). It's easy for users inexperienced with ANI to accidentally become disruptive in the way they respond to a complaint against them, even if that complaint was untimely unfounded (I can't comment in this case). As with anything, if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Remember that each party to a dispute thinks they are right, so you best serve yourself by quietly providing any extra information we might need (if any at all really), and letting cooler heads sort it out. Don't try to prove points, that ends especially badly. TheDragonFire (talk) 09:26, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF BEAUTY PAGEANT BULLSHIT AT ANI! "Many Filipinos were angered that Stephanie Del Valle defeated Catriona Gray" – nobody cares, and I would wager that includes most Filipinos. The beauty pageant articles and wrestling articles and Balkan football player articles should all be locked in a box and sunk to the bottom of the ocean, and their editors can jump in after them. EEng 03:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Y'know you don't have to visit ANI? Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:35, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do I need to remind you that pro wrestling is under "General Sanctions" and as such outbursts like that will get you.... hmmm I don't know. How about General Sanctions for all topic in that box of yours? MPJ-DK (talk) 04:52, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a bad idea. BTW, I'd meant to exempt you from the wrestling editors who should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean. EEng 06:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well then I have some scuba gear for sale then ;-) MPJ-DK (talk) 11:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nevertheless, I took a look at the original report. This kind of edit is completely unacceptable. So is edit warring to restore it, and so is persistently editing logged out.[168] Edit summaries like this are offensive and ridiculous. The recent obvious stalking and undoing of Jjj1238's edits, giving no reasons in the edit summaries, is worse, and the recent blatant harassment and edit warring on User talk:Jjj1238 is perhaps worst of all. I have blocked for two weeks. If Migsmigss resumes any of these kinds of disruption after the block, I believe the next block should be indefinite. Bishonen talk 12:30, 3 February 2019 (UTC).[reply]
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67.60.142.172 and ebolaoutbreakmap(dot)com

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It's not that I don't appreciate the amazing contributions of 67.60.142.172, but here we are. THe memories: [169] [170] [171] [172] [173] [174] [175] [176] [177] [178]

Then they were blocked.

Then they came back: african migrants somehow killed at US Border soldiers die at airport? 600 effected Those Congo Migrants heading to Tampa, FL tho who even knows where this one happened [179] [180] and finally... NFL ADMITS THE SUPERBOWL IS RIGGED.

It's sort of time they get blocked, though. It's a bit disruptive. Many thanks, ―Matthew J. Long -Talk- 03:54, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for a month. Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:32, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: reported at WP:BLACKLIST for good measure. -- Luktalk 12:22, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Obvious sock of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Benniejets needs a block

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The carabiners anxiously await your report.

82.53.120.78 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

  • They're an obvious sock of globally blocked user Benniejets per geolocation, edits and general behaviour, and are also making legal threats (see User talk:Thomas.W#Denounce and their edits). - Tom Thomas.W talk 20:31, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what are you talking about offending me.Administrator and /or company that will name me SOCKPUPPET will be denounced in penal and civil way to.I'm waiting to have the full list to present in Carabinieri HQ.It's valid all over EU.Now i've the full list.82.53.120.78 (talk) 20:37, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for a week for making legal threats. This seems to be a dynamic IP, but in any case if any passing admin wishes to lengthen the block, they should feel free to do so without consulting me. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bennie is easy to spot, too easy to be any sport, but he sure is entertaining... - Tom Thomas.W talk 21:07, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Dispute on Buncrana and my qualifications as an editor

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While doing recent changes patrol, I reverted this edit by Slavary ghost to Buncrana as it was unexplained removal of content and gave the appropriate {{uw-delete1}} warning. Earlier today, I received a talk page message from Slavary ghost in which they stated that they were correct and asked why I am qualified to revert their edit . I explained why I reverted and cited that I was patrolling, where qualification is not relevant and I was not making edits that would require expert knowledge of the subject. While doing so, I discovered that they made several similar edits on the same page that were reverted by other users with a similar rationale (see edit summaries in the revision history). My explanation was then met with a request to leave their edits alone, and declarations that I am challenging them as "an interfering busybody" who was harassing them and that I would be blocked if I continue.

The entire discussion from User talk:ComplexRational (permalink) is copied here for reference:

Changes to Buncrana Page
I made factual changes to the Buncrana history page. Everything I edited is correct. I am a member of West Inishowen History and Heritage Society based in Buncrana. What is your qualification? The mayor of Buncrana is listed as “Barry Doherty”. This is a complete fabrication. Is it your doing?

Also the amazing grace story has absolutely no basis in fact. It is a tourist initiative set up by a born again Christian group who have their own self interest, not a historical one. Could you tell me what qualifies you to edit my facts?

Slavary ghost (talk) 11:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply] 
@Slavary ghost: Thank you for your concern. The reason I reverted your change (special:diff/881505375) is because it removed sourced content without a clear explanation. Such changes are normally frowned upon, and unless the reason is obvious (e.g. a blatant hoax), they will most likely be reverted. If you believe the information was correct, please provide an explanation in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Now that you also mention that you are a member of the West Inishowen History and Heritage Society, you must take extra care when editing these articles because of a possible conflict of interest. I also noticed that you have a history of edits that were reverted on that page by many editors - which strongly suggests that whatever changes you are making are either in contravention with consensus or are otherwise unconstructive; this constitutes an edit war and may result in a block if it persists. I recommend that you declare your conflict of interest and start a discussion on the talk page regarding what facts you believe are correct, and of course, keep in mind that reliable sources are required - unsourced material is routinely challenged and removed.
And to answer your last question, my qualification is not really relevant because I was patrolling recent changes at the time, which means that I was reviewing the log of recent edits to check for potentially problematic ones (which requires more knowledge of Wikipedia policy than content of the articles, except in more complicated cases such as checking suspected hoaxes). Though when I do substantial addition or removal of content, I always make sure I understand what I write and cite the appropriate sources - that too is a fundamental policy. ComplexRational (talk) 15:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You did not answer my question. What qualifies you to change my facts? I do not see how being in a local historical society is in any way a conflict of interest when it comes to UPDATING LOCAL HISTORY. I see from your bio that you a still in school. Please leave my edits alone. I know what I’m doing is correct. You have no connection to Buncrana. You are an interfering busybody. If you continue to harass me i will see that it is you who are blocked. Slavary ghost (talk) 18:30, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also see this message from User talk:Slavary ghost (permalink):

Changes
The changes made to the Buncrana history page were correct. Please do not interfere. What qualifies you to challenge me? Because you’re a teacher? You are an interfereing busy body who has never set foot in Buncrana. Leave my edits alone in future. Slavary ghost (talk) 18:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The one diff I linked to in the first sentence is the sole edit I made to Buncrana and the sole reversion of this user's actions, and harassment by definition is "a pattern of repeated offensive behavior that appears to a reasonable observer to intentionally target a specific person or persons". I do not believe my actions constitute harassment (though please inform me if I accidentally overstepped any boundaries or misunderstood a policy/guideline). However, the comments from Slavary ghost appear to be ad hominem at best - the last comment is directed at me as an editor and it challenges my actions (citing my "bio") without addressing the content of the Buncrana article. I understand that I might be wrong about WP:COI (membership does not necessarily imply a close connection), though these comments are defensive (as are some edit summaries such as this) and seem to suggest that their membership and my undisclosed status are justification enough for them being right about the content and me being "an interfering busybody". On the other hand, do these last comments, especially the block threat, make me a victim of a personal attack?

I would like a review of the relevant diffs to Buncrana, as well as the edit histories of myself and Slavary ghost, to address these concerns. Thank you. ComplexRational (talk) 20:06, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think this conflict could be defused by all parties discussing at Talk:Buncrana. The edit that sparked this off was the removal of content cited to a clearly unreliable source, so should not have resulted in a warning, and I sympathise with Slavary ghost's reaction to the reinstatement of that badly sourced content by several editors, especially since that editor appears to be brand new to Wikipedia. I do not believe that membership of a local historical society is a conflict of interest concerning the town in question, but is also not a reason for claiming ownership of an article. Why not talk about it at the talk page, which is there for talking? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:02, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Phil Bridger: I apologize for not recognizing the source as unreliable while reinstating that content. I'm willing to have a discussion there; need I start by creating a new thread at the talk page with a link to this one? ComplexRational (talk) 21:24, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What I would do is simply to start a new thread on the talk page, if I could find a reliable source for this content, and forget about this one, but that's only the advice of one Wikipedia editor. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:33, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ComplexRational: Make that two Wikipedia editors; I agree with Phil's take on this and his suggestion. If you decide to take Phil's advice and pursue this on the article talk page and forget about this thread, you can post here that you want to withdraw this report, and a closer can close this as withdrawn. Happy editing whatever you decide. Levivich 21:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levivich: That's probably the most prudent course of action, and other editors more familiar with the subject of the article may also then be able to comment on the validity of the article's concent. I withdraw this report. ComplexRational (talk) 21:44, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Eyeballs on Jonathan Mitchell (writer)

This appears to be one of those hermetic articles that ping-pongs between hatchet-job and hagiography, and it looks like it could use some outside inspection. Nothing has risen to a reportable level yet, but it might be better to keep it that way. Qwirkle (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Genuine props for raising this. From a cursory inspection I am unsure how to improve, but I certainly see a possible issue. I will take the time over the coming weeks and perhaps months to consider what the underlying problems with this article are so that hopefully I can improve from a detached and impartial platform that addresses the underlying reasons for disruptive edits rather than simply their symptoms. Best wishes, Mrspaceowl (talk) 05:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have noticed this issue too and attempted to make some minor edits to provide more neutral coverage in problematic areas. However one of the subject's friends keeps reverting my edits claiming vandalism. I'm new to the editing side of Wikipedia but surely this isn't appropriate? I look forward to an impartial opinion. Arlandria606 (talk) 12:37, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paavada

Please see Special:Diff/881047451. Courtesy ping Velella, who may like to add a detailled explanation here. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 05:23, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Problem is agenda based editing, uncivil language, ignoring discussion, no explanation, and removing warnings. It started by these edits in Mikhael (film), in which Paavada removed 3 negative reviews, low review ratings, and changed the "negative" response to "mixed", also added many unrelated categories and other changes. I reverted it, but Paavada reverted back with the edit summary: "reverted agenda driven vandalism, promotional content". Now I went on to his talk page and explained the problems with his edits in detail and asked for an explanation, also restoring the page by explicitly stating not to revert back without proving an explanation in talk. However, Paavada ignored it and blanked the entire discussion from talk page and reverted back again without explanation. Velellarestored the page, which was again reverted by Paavada. These are the uncivil comments Paavada left on my talk page [181], [182] and in Velella's [183], [184] during the course. Since Velella is currently absent here, I am placing this reply of Velella to Paavada for presenting his take on this.--Let There Be Sunshine 11:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They've not edited since the odd denial. The response of "kindly dont post warnings here, respect ur co-editors." inclines me to block till they are more amenable to constructive criticism.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 12:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have delayed coming here because I was unsure whether the disruptive editing would continue, and because I wanted to form a clear view of what sanctions might be appropriate should they continue. I was becoming convinced that this was a paid editor and, if so, I would have wanted more evidence before coming here with a report. It is possible that the pressure from other editors has dented the editing zeal and we shall hear no more. My residual concern is that the style of the edit summaries looks very much like another (now blocked) editor but I can't bring to mind the username. I may be back with a SPI report if I can get my memory to work Velella Velella Talk 20:42, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
this is interesting, but not convincing.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 23:52, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is interesting, although commons words their edit summaries: "copy edit", "references", "clean up" are same and two intersections, including an odd page like Genome Valley. If I am not wrong, Contrib2 (talk · contribs) was Padmalakshmisx's last sock, blocked on January 22 and Paavada was created on the same day. Speaking of which, I had asked Paavada if 174.4.26.61 was his IP. It was unanswered and the talk page was blanked. Last year, this IP was adding full plot of the then-unreleased film Replicas. I doubted where did he got the plot from. IP was showing the same behavioral traits, no explanation, persistant reverts, uncivil language, blanking discussion, and saying not to contact again, like Paavada. IP's talk page is a "warning-farm" with most of the over-level 1 warnings removed.--Let There Be Sunshine 09:24, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Notes: Has some of the usual markers. The sassy "kindly dont post warnings here, respect ur co-editors." Is not the usual attitude, though. @Ponyo: Got any insight on this? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Paavada is Confirmed to suspected Padma socks Uricnobel and Contrib2; now checkuser blocked-- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 17:48, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User AlbertPenfold

All the contribuition of the AlbertPenfold user to this article is to add the controversies and questionable poorly sourced material. Having analyzed the page history, he instists over and over again on the topics from the Controversies Section, which are irrelevant, of bad quality and un-necessary. He intends to draw the attention to the libelous headings and to transform the article into an attack page against the personality. From the user's contribuiton history it is clearly seen that he sistematicaly intervines with the changes (and all his interventions related the Vladimir Plahotniuc page), and most often , with the same sort of unchecked and outdated information.--Jeremydas (talk) 10:51, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(Non-administrator comment) It will help admins out if you supply example diffs WP:SDG of the behavior rather than asking them to look at their full contributions. TelosCricket (talk) 11:39, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Penfold's recent edits are to Vladimir Plahotniuc, which must be the page in dispute, so I've added it at the top of this report. In the past, AlbertPenfold (talk · contribs) was in dispute on the same article with Wikilaj (talk · contribs), who was blocked by User:Bbb23 as a sock back in 2017. See a previous ANI (2017) about Vladimir Plahotniuc. There was an apparent promotional effort to burnish the reputation of this Moldovan politician. The SPI about Wikilaj was here. The filer of the present ANI, User:Jeremydas, also made a BPLN report on Plahotniuc on 10 January 2019 but that report didn't get any traction. (Jeremydas seems to have been trying to reword the article with a careful eye on BLP). One of the opponents of Jeremydas on the Plahotniuc article has been User:Gikü who is an editor here but an administrator on the Romanian Wikipedia. I will leave Gikü a notice. EdJohnston (talk) 18:07, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Questions about a low profile edit war

In the last few weeks there seems to be a low profile edit war on some items with IPA (International phonetic alphabet) transcriptions of Italian names. It seems that at least two groups of sockpuppets are competing on this topic. In particular, a user called Miaowmiaowmew (blocked for abusing multiple accounts) added the IPA transcription on some articles, providing the related sources (which I verified were valid). A couple of weeks later, other users (also subsequently blocked for sockpuppeting, see this for reference) have modified the transcription and removed the sources without providing alternative references. Me and other users and admins have repeatedly restored the versions with sources but, again, other sockpuppets have restored the version without sources. See the revision history of Stefano Pescosolido or Davide Sanguinetti for example.

The sockpuppets of the group of Ragaricus seems targeting specifically the edits of Miaowmiaowmew on italian personalities. It is a systematical action, sockpuppets appear in waves of four or five and make four or five edits each then disappear.

Check the edits of this group and this other group for example. Sometimes they also seem to operate as unlogged IPs (ranges 5.170.0.0/18 and 151.48.0.0/16).

I asked an opinion to some admins and experienced users (@Girth Summit, Favonian, and Matthew hk:) and they suggested to open a discussion to get a "paper trail" in case of further reverts. In case of future further sockpuppets waves, what is the best way to deal with this issue?

Horst Hof (talk) 14:18, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Since essentially no one understands those inscrutable IPA squiggles anyway, someone please remind me why we clutter article openings with them in the first place, much less editwar over them. EEng 14:39, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I too find the IPA scribbles inscrutable. Too me they provide zero meaning. I doubt the average reader can make heads or tails of them.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I concur with both of you, it is perfectly useless to include 2 or more sources for every single Italian name and surname pronunciation. The problem is the continuous edit-warring between 2 factions: let's keep the refs removed as it was at the beginning and the edit-warring will stop; if it does not then semi-protection might be a valid solution. Brocadeweaving (talk) 17:17, 1 February 2019 (UTC) Brocadeweaving (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Matthew hk (talk) 22:31, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    bloʊ ɪt aʊt jʊər æs. Fish+Karate 16:09, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    HAY!-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 17:39, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Please provide difs and the names of those users. Please notify them of this discussion. Though it think it's moot if they are sockblocked.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I already notified the sockmasters (Ragaricus and Miaowmiaowmew). The usernames of the involved accounts are here and here. If you check the revision history of Stefano Pescosolido you will find that Miaowmiaowmew added the IPA transcrition in Novemeber, then Ragaricus, Eleganms, 5.170.47.172, and more recently Suecaillam restored the unsourced version after that various admins and users restored the sourced one. You can see the same pattern of actions on various other articles, for example: Davide Sanguinetti, Matteo Trevisan, Stefano Ianni and more with a variety of socks. Horst Hof (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just to add my tuppenceworth here - I haven't been involved with any of the editing/reverting, but I discussed this with Horst Hof and advised him to bring it here. His concern isn't about which IPA squiggle is correct, it's the disruption caused by two blocked sockmasters edit warring over the pages. I wondered whether the pages in question should be semi-protected (there are 15-20 target pages), or if an IP range block might be appropriate. GirthSummit (blether) 15:47, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As far as why bother with the squiggles: for the same reason they appear in other reference sources – they are useful if you care enough about pronouncing something correctly to go to the relevant IPA article and look up the sounds. Also, I recently saw an implementation that had tool-tips pop up when mousing over each symbol with the relevant sound description and example, which eliminated the need of going to the IPA article. This doesn't seem to be implemented much yet. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Non-administrator comment) I suspected the IPA edit war or even vandalism lasted at least a few year back, which the sock-master of the sock Miaowmiaowmew , was ZenZung, sounds like a Chinese name, and i had encountered a weird ip talk page comment on lobbying people to support the change of IPA of Sicilian dialect on some Italian footballer. That Hong Kong ip later blocked as the ip belongs to a Chinese company of hosting service and seem like also provide VPN for the great firewall of China (and my edit log was way too long so i need time to locate the ip). The dispute on standard Italian may be smaller, but Horst Hof also stated in the Ragaricus' SPI, some edit war of IPA involve changing m to ɱ (may refer to this sockmaster, Viviocon, however). While in some case, yet another mainland Chinese ip was asking for comment in Talk:Gianluigi Buffon for the Venetian IPA, which other user can't verify either. It should WP:AGF on adding citation or modifying IPA according to the citation provided, except block evasion part. But if this edit war involve sock and may be tag team, while some edit, both side did not provide citation, or may be some case, different citation may provide different IPA. Thus, in this edit war with factions and socks, reverting to either side is not a best solution, but solving the disputed content the "correct" IPA first. Matthew hk (talk) 23:02, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nowiki for links to non-sources

For at least a decade I have been wrapping links to questionable sources in non-mainspace pages with <nowiki> tags, to assist with monitoring use in mainspace. Leyo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) just reverted about 70 of these edits with an edit summary of "this is nonsense: article name space may be easily monitored individually (if needed at all)", and calling it "censorship" on my talk page (a red flag in my experience, but whatever).

Leyo's comment that "article name space may be easily monitored individually (if needed at all)" is simply incorrect. There is no namespace filter in Linksearch (there was briefly, but it has been removed). Adding insource in a Wiki search is also problematic. In fact both linksearch and insource wiki search are frequently inaccurate and out of date, the search indexers do not seem to be working well at the moment.

A 2008 discussion of this exact process in the context of a site that was problematic for other reasons unambiguously endorsed it:

Removing links whilst not removing context or content from discussions does not violate any policies and is an efficient way of removing links to potentially problematic sites. BLP and Copyright policies come way above any policies on editing closed deletion discussions in any case, so Guy's edits are entirely acceptable. In short, Guy's edits are of no detriment to the encyclopedia - they directly and indirectly benefit the project. Any discussions on removing links and the right to link to material which violates copyright and policy here needs to be discussed elsewhere as it's not something limited to just this one storm in a teacup. Such a discussion would also be of intense interest to a large number of other editors, and should such a discussion take place, notices would best be left at various Village Pump and Copyright help desk boards. Nick (talk) 19:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

There have been other discussions since, with the same outcome, and I am not aware of any that have concluded otherwise. Using nowiki tags strikes a balance between monitoring the links using the limited technical tools available, while retaining the project and talk page content in as close as possible to its original sense and meaning.

But consensus can change. This is a thing I have done for a long time to keep the number of links down and simplify monitoring of link abuse, do I now need to either remove the links altogether or just suck up the time it takes to watch for links to dodgy sources? That would be quite boring. Guy (Help!) 09:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hm. Leyo's editing does look problematic here. Ordering other editors what to do because I know best is not a good start, especially when you then threaten to block them for something that isn't in the slightest blockworthy. Then despite that discussion, unilaterally removing the nowikis in around 75 talk pages with a comment of removing "censorship" (Guy is right, this is always a red flag) while the discussion is still happening at WP:RS/N? I'm somewhat unimpressed, I have to say. Black Kite (talk) 10:43, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The revert comment was NOT censorship but this is nonsense: article name space may be easily monitored individually (if needed at all). Only on the user discussion page I used that word. I may have used another one, but since I am not a native English speaker, I do not always find the best possible expressions.
    Monitoring the use of a certain website in the article namespace may easily been done using e.g. insource:/pesticideinfo\.org/. --Leyo 11:35, 25 January 2019 (UTC) PS. @Black Kite: "Then despite that discussion, unilaterally removing the nowikis in around 75 talk pages" is actually not the full story. JzG has added the nowiki tags while the discussion was still running (which I consider highly problematic). I just restored the versions to the status before that discussion. This is a standard admin procedure. --Leyo 12:12, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Er, yes, that is exactly what I said. Your comment on censorship was, as Black Kite said, on my talk page, where you said, and I quote, I reverted your censorship to talk pages, archives etc. Talk page contributions of other users should only be altered for grounds like linking to websites with dangerous content or such things. In addition, the article name space may be easily monitored individually, e.g. using CirrusSearch. As I pointed out above, this does not work. You may well not be aware of that as I am sure you don't spend much of your time monitoring bogus links (which obviously I do), but even if you were, you are dictating a dogmatic view of how others should go about their volunteer work without thinking to ask why they do it that way in the first place. Which comes back to OiD's comment: this looks like grudge-bearing, which is not an attractive quality. Guy(Help!) 11:57, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"As I pointed out above, this does not work." This is actually not true (anymore): If the search query isn't too complex, insource: finds all occurrences, as it does in this case. I can assert you that I've been spending a lot of time with various maintenance work, even if only partly in the en.wikipedia. --Leyo 12:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See below. I actually do this all the time, I can assure you, it doesn't. Guy (Help!) 15:00, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually these reverts were not related to the RSN discussion at all - they were links to the website of to Environmental Working Group, an official-sounding pressure group (501(c)(4)) with a less than stellar reputation for accuracy. I cleaned out the mainspace links ages ago but only nowikid the non-mainspace recently, largely because wading through 100+ links to see if new mainspace ones had been added was getting boring. The RSN discussion is about alanwood.net, a personal website, and the Pesticide Action Network, another pressure group whose pages were being used as if they were a neutral reference source (last I looked there was no pushback on that at all, only fans of Alan Wood). And this is all good faith stuff, EWG and PAN especially deliberately set out to appear like legitimate authorities, it's not a surprise that good-faith editors, especially those with an environmentalist preference, mistakenly pick these up. I'd have been suckered too before I started specialising in sourcing and spamming on Wikipedia. Guy(Help!) 11:20, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Actually these reverts were not related to the RSN discussion at all" is actually not true: Two of the three are being discussed in Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Compendium_of_Pesticide_Common_Names, with diverging views (concerning the namespace) so far. The third, ewg.org, is certainly not that problematic that users and readers should be hindered to access the links that have been posted on talk pages by multiple users over the past couple of years.
"I cleaned out the mainspace links ages ago" is actually not entirely true, either. You've removed quite some (e.g. here) four days ago. --Leyo 12:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that was the last time I reviewed the link list. I do that periodically. That is, in fact, the entire point. Your claim that people are "hindered to access" these links, mainly in archived debates, is, I would submit, without merit. The trivial additional effort required to highlight the text and right-click to open is not significant, and, as per the original discussion noted above, there is a benefit to offset that trivial inconvenience, which, it must be noted, we have no evidence anybody has ever suffered. We're supposed to be an encyclopaedia, not DMOZ. Guy(Help!) 12:17, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just add {{search link insource:/pesticideinfo\.org/ ns=ns0=1}} (→ insource:/pesticideinfo\.org/) or similar to your website and you will get the same result. In fact, you even get a preview of the articles' source text. --Leyo 12:34, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I use that too, it is flaky. The index has been up to a month out of date before now, showing links that have been removed and omitting links that have been added. That's why I use both. It's the only reliable method I have found to date. Guy(Help!) 13:18, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is simply not true. This like that used to happen quite some time ago. --Leyo 20:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The last time I found it to be an issue was three weeks ago. This sounds a lot like trying to tell me that my experience is an illusion therefore I must do things in a way that you personally find acceptable, just in case someone has to take slightly longer to visit a site that is not usable as a source anyway. Guy (Help!) 21:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personally I find almost all of the time, anyone who cries censorship has no clue what it actually is. That aside, while Guy says this is unrelated to the pesticide issue, this just looks like retaliation for them not getting their own way. I cant think of any legitimate reason for them to do that. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:29, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    See my reply above. --Leyo 11:35, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Personally I do not believe links should be removed simply because the sites aren't RSes. I think we should only remove them when there are actual problems with the links. E.g. malware sites, sites or links with copyvios, sites or links with BLPvios. The summary of the discussion quoted above doesn't seem to be saying anything different. Also sites on the blacklist may be justified considering the problems it creates editing the pages although if they're in archives there may be questions over whether it matters. That said, this doesn't seem to be the place to discuss this. 12:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC) BTW I don't quite understand why it's necessary to nowiki links to allow monitoring their use in articles/main space. Is there some reason why the built in WMF search engine can't simply be used for this? Or if it is, is there some reason limiting to main space doesn't work? It seems we should work with the WMF to fix any flaws which prevent the built in search from being used to monitor unwanted additions inside mainspace. But if it's really necessary to use third party search engines, it also seems to me it may be better to work with the WMF to find ways to exclude other names spaces/include only main space, e.g. by including unique terms. That would surely help everyone including Guy. Nil Einne (talk) 12:34, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I certainly agree concerning the examples "malware sites, sites or links with copyvios, sites or links with BLPvios". As the insource: search already works fine (see above), no further improvement of the WMF search engine seems to be required for now. --Leyo 12:40, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Nil Einne: There are two things going on. One is the existence of well known unreliable sources (e.g. American Renaissance, Blood & Honor and so on) where we have consensus they don't meet WP:RS. I (and others) remove citations to those sites. The other is links to those sites in talk pages and other debates. These show up in Linksearch (see amren.com: Linksearch en (https) (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:frMER-C X-wikigs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: searchmeta • Domain: domaintoolsAboutUs.comAlexa ). Linksearch is the most reliable way of finding links to a website, but the linksearch results are bulked out by talk pages and Wikipedia discussions, making it much harder to identify new links in mainspace. Thus I habitually - and for a long time - nowiki them in those pages. Not delete, they are still there, still visible in their original context, I just format them so they don't show up in Linsearch. That's the change Leyo chose to revert. He is the first person to do this in some years, to the best of my recollection, if anyone has ever done it at all. Guy (Help!) 13:12, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • How does "[wrapping with] <nowiki> tags, to assist with monitoring use in mainspace. " assist this monitoring? A regex is going to look for a domain name, not a <nowiki>. Whatever else one might say about Leyo's edits here (and I can see the wagons circling already), they seem to have a point here. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Andy Dingley: It helps because Special:Linksearch only searches for actual links, not just URLs as text. See eg Special:Linksearch/forbes.com. If the links are only actual links in mainspace, then Special:Linksearch will only return hits in mainspace. I don't think this is the greatest way of tracking use of links. MediaWiki in fact has a facility to limit Linksearch by namespace, but it's turned off on WMF wikis because it makes the search quite expensive to run. If the `insource` method described above is broken, that should be put in a phab ticket and fixed. GoldenRing (talk) 13:04, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The `insource` method is not broken. {{search link insource:/ewg\.org/ ns=ns0=1}} found 21 articles a few hours ago. JzG obviously made use of that method to find these articles and remove the reference in all but three cases. This includes occurrences where his previous method (linksearch) had failed (Special:Diff/880119117, Special:Diff/880117415 or for some reason Special:Diff/880117378(note that the section was added by Moreau1 back in 2017)). --Leyo 20:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is unreliable and gives inconsistent results. As I think I might have pointed out, I do this all the time. Sometimes it's correct, other times, not. Hence I use both. Guy(Help!) 21:16, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, none of us may prove his testimony. ;-) Have you tried mw:User:PerfektesChaos/js/resultListSort? Is allows to sort the results of linksearch e.g. according to the namespace. Depending on how it is set, the script does it automatically of after a click. --Leyo 21:55, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leyo still hasn't answered the main questions; why do they think it's OK to threaten another editor with blocking for doing something that had consensus at previous discussions; and why did they revert 75 edits (claiming "censorship" - which they denied whilst the relevant diff, qouted by Guy above, is obvious) whilst the discussion on whether that was the correct thing to do was still ongoing? My inclination would be to mass-revert Leyo's edits until we can see an actual consensus on whether they're right to do so, or not. Black Kite (talk) 15:15, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    JzG removed all refs to two websites, Compendium of Pesticide Common Names and PAN Pesticides Database (without replacing them with other refs) that have been added by many different users as references for adding content to mainly chemistry-related articles over a period of at least seven years. He did this without seeking consensus beforehand, neither on WP:RSN not on any other page such as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry. In the cases he was reverted by other users, he reverted them back. A discussion on WP:RSN#Compendium of Pesticide Common Names was started, with diverging views on the matter. For me it is a clear-cut case that during such a running discussion the removal of the refs under consideration may under any circumstances not be continued. It is a general principle that during a dispute no party may just proceed trying to create facts (see also WP:POINT).
    Unfortunately, Black kite hasn't read the text on JzG's talk page correctly (as explained above). As noted before, I should have used a different word than censorship. A mass revert as an admin action might only be an option to revert to the original state. This is especially true for the two links that are still under discussion. --Leyo 21:39, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I did indeed remove links to those two sites. One is a personal site with zero editorial oversight, the other is a political campaign and there's pretty clear consensus it should not be used.
What you did was to undo the wrapping of links to a completely different site, on talk pages, because in your personal view, having clearly not patrolled for this kind of problem, the wrapping is unnecessary.
When challenged, you have doubled down, asserting your own preferences as the sole valid view and dismissing the issues I have experienced with searches as invalid. Which is rude.
But the measure of a man is how he handles his mistakes. You made a mistake here. It will be interesting to see if you can admit it. Guy (Help!) 18:16, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Leyo should know by now that they are WP:INVOLVED in the pesticide topic for violating the discretionary sanctions on 1RR and casting aspersions, especially being warned for doing that multiple times[185][186], so that they're threatening a block is even more problematic. This is really looking like attempts to continue disruptive behavior in the topic without getting it, but I'm not sure if here or AE is the better venue at this point. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:36, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well … I think it's better if we try to avoid each other. --Leyo 21:39, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, you're hinting at the case at beekeeping where I was trying to work with a editor that wasn't working through talk page (outside the DS area at that) and kept reinserting edits without gaining consensus for them. Not going to work as WP:POT example, but it does outline the WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior you're injecting into this topic. Please keep in mind this combative attempt to pursue editors is not very appropriate as others have outlined here with respect to your sniping problems at a minimum. Kingofaces43 (talk) 05:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted

  • Comment Since Leyo has not answered the question as to why they threatened another editor with blocking for no reason, and have not explained why they performed a mass-revert during the discussion (against possible consensus), not to mention the fact that they are clearly WP:INVOLVED in the subject, I am about to revert all of their reverts of Guy's edits. And now a discussion can take place, at the point where we were in the first place. If the discussion decides that Leyo was right, then the edits can be reverted. But we shouldn't be starting from a point of a mass-revert with very thin reasons for doing so, especially from an admin. Black Kite (talk) 22:43, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    This is simply not true. And, reverting would only be applicable to the last stable versions, i.e. the versions before JzG edited them. --Leyo 23:00, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nope. You don't get to do mass-reverts during a discussion, you don't get to threaten people with blocking for performing non-disruptive edits you disagree with, and especially you don't get to do those things when you are clearly involved with the subject concerned. The talk pages are your next (and only) venue for this issue. Black Kite (talk) 23:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Compendium_of_Pesticide_Common_Names started on 02:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC). E.g. Special:Diff/879848572, Special:Diff/879848531 or Special:Diff/879848518 were done after that. The same applies in the article namespace for Special:Diff/880027846 or Special:Diff/880027766. --Leyo 23:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. Some of JzG's edits were made after the discussion began, but all of yours were. You're missing the point, though. No-one here is saying that JzG is correct, or you are correct. The point is that you have involvement in the subject, and you threatened to block another administrator for making edits you disagreed with - and then you reverted all of their edits. Some advice - I would stick with discussing this at the talk pages now, because you are on shaky ground. Black Kite (talk) 23:36, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I could have lived with your reverts if you had left out the ones JzG edited after the discussion has started. In retrospective, I probably should have reverted only those for the time being.
It was simply about the fact that he continued his removals in the article name space after the discussions started. Concerning WP:INVOLVED, I don't think I've ever added a ref to one of those website to an article myself. --Leyo 23:49, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Leyo, you seem to be unfamiliar with WP:INVOLVED and how that works for admins (or that an admin such as yourself is still expected to avoid some of the battleground behaviors you've been showing). You've already violated the discretionary sanctions in the pesticides topic, so you cannot behave as an admin in that area whatsoever. In that specific regard, even I would be less involved by degree if I were an admin even though I'm indisputably involved in the subject too. Kingofaces43 (talk) 05:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think this whole thing really belongs on a Village Pump. The behavioral issues don't seem like they warrant any action. I have no strong opinion one way or the other as to the matter of delinking.. I guess I'm sympathetic to the idea, having wrestled with our various search mechanisms in the past, but that sort of thing doesn't need to be hashed out here. The behavioral issue just sounds like standard BRD fare, inflamed by a block threat. Guy made a bunch of edits. Leyo disagreed with them and reverted them. The burden in the discussion is typically on whomever made the change to find consensus. If the challenged edits kept going after being challenged, I would be unsurprised to see the reverts continue until consensus secured. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 00:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is more that Leyo threatened administrator action against me when he was involved, used edit summaries which were disparaging, and has generally refused to acknowledge that there might be any valid view other than his own. Guy (Help!) 15:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@JzG: Have you already been able to successfully test mw:User:PerfektesChaos/js/resultListSort, that enables sorting linksearch result, among others, according to the namespace? Just tell me if you need help. @Nil Einne, GoldenRing, and Andy Dingley: You might be interested in that script, too, according your statements above. --Leyo 12:53, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How about: no. I have my own methods for sorting and working with links, this does not help at all with the simple and frequent task of quickly reviewing the list of links to a known unreliable source with a long history of inappropriate use. How about if instead of telling me how to do my volunteer work in a way you personally find acceptable, you choose instead to go about your business and not worry about it, because wrapping links in a nowiki tag when they are not in any way usable as sources is not a problem at all. Guy(Help!) 15:12, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You may have your own methods as long as you are not hampering other users (incl. readers). This is not the case here. Nowadays many people are accessing internet with a mobile device. Copying/pasting the URL on a talk page may be quite a fiddly task and much less convenient than just clicking. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is a collaborative project, not a one man show.
You seem not to even have tested the script. I am convinced that even you would prefer a filtering option for the linksearch results filtering according to the namespace would perfectly meet your demands. The additional ability of sorting the results according the URL may also be useful in some cases. --Leyo 21:40, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's a neat script (thanks!), but it only sorts the current page, so it doesn't really work for multi-page result sets. Also, the insource:/regex/ searches do timeout a lot (see WP:INSOURCE), e.g. insource:/\[\[USA Baseball#/. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 23:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but clicking on e.g. "500" before would solve this issue for all websites concerned here.
Sure, some complex insource searches do timeout (I have experience with lots of maintenance tasks in various WMF projects), but not the simple cases discussed here. In your example, there seems to be an issue with the # character if not escaped (\#). Anyhow, the hash tag is never a part of a domain. --Leyo 23:45, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In your obviously extensive experience of checking for links to a hundred or more websites that have been abused, how long does it take to open linksearch, click 500, and review, say, 250 links to identify new mainspace ones? I know the answer to this because I do this all the time. You keep telling me ways to patrol for these sites that you find personally preferable, but you're not the one doing the work and it's really not up to you do dictate, especially given that your responses flatly deny problems that I have personally experienced recently, suggesting that you are speaking in theoretical terms versus my practical ones. Guy(Help!) 18:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there would be the possibility of increasing the Number of edits to show in recent changes, page histories, and in logs, by default: to e.g. 500. IMHO having the searchlink results sorted by (i) namespace and within them in (ii) alphabetical order is outweighing one additional click. --Leyo 22:40, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion, as one who does not have to sit through the load times and script runtimes and JavaScript crashes. Alternatively, I could just wrap the links with nowiki, which has zero effect on the readability of the text and fixes the problem at source. Guy(Help!) 21:09, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Without having tried the script you can't judge its effect on load times, script runtimes and JavaScript crashes. I have never experienced such issues. Sorting 500 SearchLink results lasts clearly less than a second.
Code for common.js
 mw.loader.load("https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:PerfektesChaos/js/resultListSort/r.js&action=raw&bcache=1&maxage=86400&ctype=text/javascript");  if ( typeof mw.libs.resultListSort !== "object" ) {    mw.libs.resultListSort  =  { };  }  mw.libs.resultListSort.auto = ["LinkSearch", "Whatlinkshere"]; 
Concerning "zero effect": As written above, nowadays many people are accessing internet with a mobile device. Copying/pasting the URL on a talk page may be quite a fiddly task and much less convenient than just clicking. --Leyo 23:08, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But irrelevant as it's worthless as a source, and Wikipedia's prime function is not to drive traffic to pressure group websites from archives. Guy(Help!) 22:23, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Depending on the context of a discussion, I may well be of interest to access the information available on websites that are not suitable as a reference in the article. --Leyo 10:18, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@JzG, Nil Einne, GoldenRing, and Andy Dingley: There is now toolforge:linksearch that allows, among other features, searching in specific namespaces. --Leyo 21:54, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any documentation on toolforge:linksearch? The source code shows that the tool queries the external links table in a database on a particular wmflabs server. Presumably that is periodically updated from the actual external links table on enwiki. It would be interesting to know how often updating occurs and what a typical range of lag times is. That is, if I search for a URL and it shows no results, does that mean there are no links matching the URL now (answer: no), or is it one hour ago, or one day, or one week? Johnuniq (talk) 04:37, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK there is currently no English documentation. I will create one ASAP.
The database is usually up-to-date (see s5 in toolforge:replag).
Two types of wildcards are possible after the domain: _ (exactly one character) and % (zero, one, or multiple characters). --Leyo 08:45, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The documentation is now available on Help:Linksearch/Toolforge. --Leyo 23:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Many null edits

Is there a standard procedure for what to do when we see a new account primarily making many null edits (e.g. adding and then removing extra spaces between sentences in random articles)? I assume it is trying to reach some number of edits beyond which additional capabilities kick in, but is it blockworthy behavior? —David Eppstein (talk) 17:20, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reasonably common way people try to game the system to get autoconfirmed. Report the user here and they'll get politely smited. -- a. get in the spam hole get nosey 18:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fine, I was trying to keep this generic so I could keep the smiting to myself, but it's Temptemp5780 (talk·contribs). I'll go notify them of this discussion. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Big question is, what was their previous account? Often this is people trying to get autocomfirmed for malicious purposes. Canterbury Tail talk 18:44, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Autoconfirmed status is given to accounts that are more than four days old and have made at least 10 edits. In my view this is way too low and encourages minor edits to jump over the hurdle.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:08, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
However high the bar is set it will be open to gaming. I have seen editors do enough innocuous edits to become WP:EXTENDEDCONFIRMED and then immediately jump into contentious edits in areas where that right is required. I really think that this whole idea of restricting what people can do based on days and edits is not fit for purpose. It prevents good-faith editors from contributing but encourages those who edit in bad faith to game the system. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Generally, semiprotected pages don't have the advantage of the cleaning up of awkwardnesses that are unseen by a page's "regular" editors, but are glaring to drive-by IPs. Semi-protected pages' quality is lessened in that way. It's a pretty noticible effect.
Anyway, no malicious purpose here. I was just wanting to make a non-malicious edit (removing a little bit of real "off-topic, digression"), but a semi-protection prevented it. Ugh. Yet another awkwardness just sitting there for quite some time on a semi-protected page because yet-another very-able IP editor couldn't make quick work of it.
To be autoconfirmed, I could make "normal" edits, but it takes some time to stumble upon places that could use one. I could have also made some almost-zero-effect edits that weren't so obvious to you-all, but that actually takes a bit of creativity and work too! I figured I'd see what would happen this time if I just got a bunch of uncreative zero-effect edits out of the way all at once. Either someone would notice and be perplexed and/or annoyed, or nothing would happen and I would just move forward with the single normal/good edit I wanted to make. No actual ill-intent. Sorry to make a distraction. Buh bye. Temptemp5780 (talk) 23:16, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Temptemp5780: That is Wikipedia:Gaming the system, a proscribed behavior, and you should stop. Your good-faith contributions would be welcome, I'm sure, and the correct way to gain the permission you seek is to request it at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Confirmed. Or you can make an edit request. --Bsherr (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Edit requests are degrading and ineffective. Regarding gaming the system, it's a matter of what's important and what's not. Null edits have null effect. Fretting about a null effect, and lecturing about it should be held off until and unless an editor actually becomes disruptive. Otherwise, it's wasting everyone's time with yet more null-effect ANI melodrama. I'm pretty sure that is "proscribed". :-) Temptemp5780 (talk) 00:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Temptemp5780: That might be so if you were making null edits. But those aren't null edits, they're test edits, which are in and of themselves disruptive (though I'll spare you the lecture on why unless you want it) and, according to Wikipedia:Vandalism, continuing to make test edits after being warned is vandalism. But why don't you request the "confirmed" permission? This is why we have that process. --Bsherr (talk) 05:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Bsherr, A lot of people are shooting their mouths off here without knowing the actual course of events. The "null edits" were all made and done before anybody said anything, alright? There's no need to imply "Vandalism". Each null "set" of edits was a pair of an added non-rendered space followed by it's removal, a common technique for adding extra edit summary commentary. I think it's aggressive and useless for you to try to re-characterize the matter. Temptemp5780 (talk) 07:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or, more to the point, an account that has reached autoconfirmed/extended-confirmed through gaming the system will be blocked as soon as they make a contentious edit to a semi-protected article. As long as they're making positive edits, there isn't a problem. Black Kite (talk) 23:30, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I guess you still need to wait the 4 days. Might be quicker to edit request.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 23:40, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Four days is true, but I was willing to wait. And like I said above, edit requests are degrading and ineffective. Who wants to beg? Really. You can't BE BOLD when you're begging! :-) Temptemp5780 (talk) 00:20, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody will look down on you for making an edit request. I see them fairly frequently, and while some are not useful, many are simply IP editors who see an error but can't fix it. The one time I have issues with them is when an article is fully-protected due to conflicting news reports and the talk page is flooded; but I doubt you were planning to do that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making an edit request, and you won't be thought any less of for doing so. I'm sure many very experienced editors in high standing here had many edit-requests at the beginning of their "career". -A lad insane(Channel 2) 01:47, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter if you look at at a beggar with understanding eyes. The beggar knows he's begging. But even so, "edit requests" are a whole lot more work and follow through than just fixing it right then and there -- that's another defacto deterrent to their use. The "pending approval" method is much better. It allows control over the actual edit (no ambiguity over exactly what changes would be made), you can be bold when you need to be, and you you don't have to beg. The job is done in one stroke. Temptemp5780 (talk) 04:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Temptemp5780: just remember state clearly what you want to change in edit request, e.g. del X, add Y, or change X to Y format, or stating which line have a typo, etc. Remember to provide reliable external source as evidence if needed. Once you have edit privilege , get the habit of writing WP:edit summary in brief. Matthew hk (talk) 01:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Non-administrator comment) Regarding the system of WP:EXTENDEDCONFIRMED, autoconfirmed, etc. I have seen so many editors with EXTENDEDCONFIRMED, still have editing problem and even at binding to consensus level. e.g. changing English variety with personal preference and wall of text in edit summary to defend it, or personal preference on ref styling (changing established style to another without seeking new consensus) and again wall of text of asking people to respect them, even some of them got RfC/U, and with all effect, seem the same old user. Still hot potato to other users that try to cooperate with them. To sum up, using the edit count cannot correctly reflect the real situation and merely a quantitative way. Yet, gaming the system to gain autoconfirmed, yes it seem assume neutral faith on the motive, and as long as they did not made their first vandalism or edit warring edit, no need to warrant a block. In reverse, if such stuff need a block on new user, then many 10 years user, based on their current behaviour, need a block, which it is the spirit of equal. Matthew hk (talk) 00:55, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If you're saying that people who've gamed the system to gain ECP should be treated as people who haven't when they cause problems, I'm not sure I'd agree. People who've gamed have already made problems and been disruptive with their gaming as I pointed out below, so they're already hanging by a thread. Further, since they've likely (obviously not always) demonstrated far less actual productive editing, we have less reason to think they're worth spending our time to try and keep around. Actually the opposite, we have reason to think they're just here to cause problems (whether they realise it or not). Nil Einne (talk) 01:59, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would say the system is quantitative. Some admin either rightly or wrongly bring up to Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee, or just got their admin rights 10 years ago and 10 years later still filling full wall of unsourced content in football article and seldom participated in WP:Footy on policy and MoS discussion. They are just artificial rank. I did not endorse gaming the system, but extended confirmed with 10+ years belt, can still be problematic user, and may be getting a wild card of good content creator so good outweigh the bad bababah. I would just say extended confirmed user can still fail to binding to tiny consensus of ref styling, which Wikipedia:CITEVAR cited a long standing arbitration committee rule that can't possibly miss.
For auto-confirmed and semi-protected, i do endorse it works. At least it preventing people changing the height of the footballer to random value, or a value from another site that ±1cm to the value and then edit warring back and forth. Matthew hk (talk) 02:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I feel it's worth pointing out neither semi protection nor ECP are expected to stop all problems. They are only intended to help. IMO, the evidence strongly suggests semi protection does work, whatever the other consequences. It's possible the 4 days/10 edits isn't necessary, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does help. Ultimately the hurdles mentioned above are not just a problem for new users, they are a problem for those who want to case mischief too. A lot of bored school kids just can't be bored, or don't even know what they need to do. I have less experience with ECP but expect it also helps for related reasons. I'm not saying there isn't a possible debate to be had about whether these requirements are worth it, or should be modified, simply that any suggestion they don't work simply because they can be gamed, or even if not gamed they don't guarantee problem free editing is IMO missing the point.

Also it's not true null edits are no problem. Null edits fill up edit logs. Even if these edits are only to someone's user page, it's likely certain people will see them and have their time waste on them. Edits to someone user talk page are of course also a problem since people do have good cause to look at a user's talk page history at times. If these null edits are solely for gaming, then this could easily be seen as disruptive. Personally, I wouldn't call for sanctioning anyone who did it solely for autoconfirmed. I would however support a warning, and a block if it doesn't stop for anyone trying it for ECP. I'm sure some may prefer to watch them, wait until they're finished and block when they start to cause problems which is fine. I'm simply pointing out they're not consequence free.

BTW, [citation needed] on the claim that edit requests are ineffective

Nil Einne (talk) 01:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nil Einne:Am I one of those? On a side note, it is not the edit count number or the length of time that is the main issue here. In reality these measures could be affective if and only if another measure was to take place as well. After giving a thought I thought of a new measure that could ensure that a user gets the privileged levl that they should deserve. I am proposing that in a new sub-section that I am creating bellow. (Unsigned)
While 10 edits/4 days is way to low it has been very effective stopping creation of junk pages in WP:ACREQ Legacypac (talk) 02:51, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal (Using the size of the edits to determine confirmed status)

In this proposal the following changes would occur:

Privlege level Requirements
auto-confirmed 10 edits (>499 bytes) for each in article space and account is 4 days old.
auto-extended confirmed 100 edits (>999 bytes) for each in arcticle name space and account is 90 days old.

With something like this, it would be difficult for a vandal to game the system, as it would be very likely that they would get caught. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 02:33, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the right venue for discussing proposals about userrights. Try WP:VP or this talk page. Cesdeva(talk) 03:32, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's the sizeof the edit that's important; it's what you do with it. I do think that 10 edits/four days is inadequate. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, keep telling yourself that. Levivich 04:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You do realize that a vandal edit that is greater than 499 Bytes from an unconfirmed account will most likely not slip by ClueBot. This is especially for vandal edits greater than 999 Bytes from a non-extended-confirmed user. Just to put it into perspective … how big or long would a vandal edit that is greater than 999 bytes be on a single page? Even if it was broken up here an there on a page it would be pretty obvious of getting caught. If a user keeps getting caught by Cluebot … they are obviously a vandal. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 02:37, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting unlocking of User:Victor_Mochere

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I wish to request unlocking of User:Victor_Mochere — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.79.195.56 (talk) 23:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note - This user has been indef blocked since March 2018 for abusing multiple accounts, such as User:VictorMochere. Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 23:55, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The User:VictorMochere was requested to be deleted, and maintain only User:Victor_Mochere — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.79.195.56 (talk) 00:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Might help your case if you state why you think you should be unblocked. MPJ-DK (talk) 00:08, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • All other edits under that IP is basically pushing himself as a source on Wikipedia, does not really speak to any potential positive contributions. MPJ-DK (talk) 00:12, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please ban this vandal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello,

The IP 92.86.36.1 is vandalising soccer pages. He thinks he's smart doing that. Christina (talk) 11:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Cristina neagu: please note the usual venue to report vandals is WP:AIV. I have given the IP a final warning (only one edit today, so seems too premature to block). If they continue to vandalise please let me know. GiantSnowman 11:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)@Cristina neagu: Pictogram voting wait red.svg No vandalism since final warning. Re-report if this user resumes vandalising. - and please report them at WP:AIV. BellezzasoloDiscuss 11:33, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, guys, I forgot! He vandalised two pages, just to know, but he has some certain style of rewriting things. If he keeps going, then his place is not on Wikipedia. Christina (talk) 11:36, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I can make a proposal to Wikipedia, to the Village Pump

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I demand access to the village pump for the purpose of making a proposal in whatever form I choose within the scope and behavioural guides of the site, without being summarily and rapidly deleted, for no reason other than the number of editors. The village pump is mine as much as it is yours. I have been threatened with admin action and accused of edit warring. There may be one question or another, but I get to decide the intention of my words when they are directed towards other editors. I didn't break anything, nor am I going to. What I did was try to suggest a better way of responding to vandalism. ~ R.T.G 13:37, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The page in question is Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). From what I can see, the discussion was closed by @Mandruss:, and you have then edit warred with various admins (including @Guy Macon and Anomie:) to re-open it. It has now been re-closed by @Amaury:. Notwithstanding @Galobtter:'s warning to you about your conduct, I see no reason why you shouldn't be blocked immediately for your continued disruption. GiantSnowman 13:40, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I demand standard unfettered access to the main discussion forum, without qualification based on anything but civility. Has someone got a problem they can describe other than, "That person entered text into the site!?" Or, DIDNTLIKEIT, because that's all you've got, thanks. ~ R.T.G 13:46, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You made a proposal, it went nowhere, and was reviewed and closed by four admins. What more do you want? PS please stop demanding things, it's not a good look. GiantSnowman 13:48, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It was closed 90 minutes after it was entered. Then it was smothered continuously without any real attempt to address or even accept the request. These editors are acting as arbitrators. ~ R.T.G 13:58, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If I can't communicate I'd like if someone who knows what they are doing could point me to where you disappear off the site. ~ R.T.G 13:58, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You just stop using your account. Accounts are not deleted. --Khajidha (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not technically correct, we have WP:VANISH. GiantSnowman 14:06, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@RTG: I would urge you to reconsider; if you're pissed off that your proposal was closed with multiple administrators in consensus that it was not going anywhere helpful, then take a break. Nobody would think less of you for doing so, there's no need to quit entirely. The last 50 of your article contributions stretch over a total of 5 years which suggests to me you could consider (just a suggestion) to step away from meta issues and look at contributing differently, which you may find less stressful. Fish+Karate 14:11, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:RTG, Wikpedia: 896, Talk:844, Wikipedia talk:576, User talk:465, Template:199, Template talk:32, = 2982. Main = 2,894. I am not banned from choosing topics, or debating them at length. You do not WP:OWN this site without demanding that I own it too on the same line. None of you are prepared to admit that, or able to accept that it can be said without grand allusion. I am not "pissed off" I am rubbed out. ~ R.T.G 14:22, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Non-administrator comment) support a block for re-opening a closed thread way many times. Matthew hk (talk) 14:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Blocking is preventative, not punitive. The disruption has stopped (for now). GiantSnowman 14:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No different when not long ago (14:22) he still keep want to re-open the thread or still talking about that matter. Matthew hk (talk) 14:30, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This request for help also closed within five minutes, to suggestions of prevention of discussion. If you don't want to discuss what I want to discuss, do you have to? ~ R.T.G 14:34, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The VPP close(s) were appropriate - there was actually no "proposal" per se, just one editor's increasingly adamant opinions. There have been legitimate RfC's concerning what to do with the RefDesks, I !voted in them, but don't have a clue if they're still open, or if they've been closed, and if so with what action taken or not taken. I suggest that the OP here look at those proposals to see if they cover his concerns, and, if not, that they create a new RfC using them as a model. As it stands, however, the VPP "proposal" really did have no chance of going anywhere, because it was not properly formulated, and appeared to be, essentially, a forum for the OP to complain.
    Really, the first close of this thread was designed to help the OP from digging themself into a hole that was going to end up in a block -- and may still if they don't WP:DROPTHESTICK.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There was a proposal to reduce the effectiveness of vandalism, and nothing else except the closure. Where I am from, you are holding the stick. ~ R.T.G 15:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You accused me of incivility/anger. Found that accusation. ~ R.T.G 16:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Might I suggest that
    1. repeatedly closing this thread, suggesting indef blocks, and poking RTG with sticks on their talk page, or
    2. just not replying anymore
would both achieve the same result, except Option 2 would cause a whole lot less drama? No harm in letting RTG have the last word here; if no one else agrees with him, then this thread will die a quiet death. Just don't reply. Easy peasy. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was gonna say something like that myself. EEng 17:04, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good to know my attempts at helping are seen as poking, Shame. –Davey2010Talk 17:07, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Vandalism only account

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Starting January 24, Momfzo vandalized seven Wikimedia projects. Paradoctor (talk) 18:53, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Meatsock or sock or canvassing for a RM?

Would someone have a look at Talk:Independence Day (Sri Lanka), did it sounds meat sock or WP:tag team or more seriously only one user ip hooping? Matthew hk (talk) 23:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew hk, I have never quite figured out if ANI or WP:SPI is the right place to get help since I posted this. Sorry I can't be more helpful. ―Matthew J. Long -Talk- 00:31, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if it is tag team and meat sock it is not a rightplace in SPI, also , some SPI case for ip end up with : ip (activities) too old, closing. Matthew hk (talk) 00:35, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously this isn't kosher, but it was closed properly. Not much can be done really as there is no account to tie to, other than to shut down RMs and the like (or semiprotect and strike) when these happen. Technically an SPI issue, but they are overloaded and it really doesn't require a CU, so ANI works as the issue is purely a behavioral one. Most any admin can connect the dots in these cases. Dennis Brown - 09:55, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Approached about COI edits to Ken Banks

I was approached on a freelance writer web site by a man using the name "Nikolai Fedyanin" about performing an edit to this article in violation of COI in return for a sum of $35. Before I engaged with the person who approached me, I informed an administrator via Discord and appended this to my userpage.

I asked the user for the article and the wikicode and at no time did I accept payment or agree to edit the article. I was provided these instructions. I informed the user about WP:COI and WP:PAID and admonished him for attempting this. He told me that it "needed to be done" and "understood how Wikipedia works". I subsequently blocked the user on social media. The Pony Toast 🍞 (Talk) 19:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Addemndum: I have been advised to refer this matter additionally to the Arbitration Committee email list. The Pony Toast 🍞 (Talk) 20:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vauxford

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Vauxford (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Vauxford has engaged himself in an edit war on the Kia Picanto, insisting that his washed-out pictures should be representative of the article and other users require a committee approval. Here's an example:

The first photo (File:2018 Kia Picanto 3 Automatic 1.2 Front.jpg) was the main image prior to Vauxford's recent edit.

The second photo (File:2018 Kia Picanto 1 1.0.jpg) the main image Vauxford chose to use. Notice that the red color is washed-out due to the hazy weather and the car is dirty. Yet he insists this should be the main picture.

This isn't even the first time he's had issues with edit-warring over photos. Just last month, he was involved in an edit war with EurovisionNim (talk · contribs), who has since retired from active editing.

I feel that Vauxford needs to stop pretending he is the authority when it comes to automotive pictures. - Areaseven (talk) 22:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Areaseven Seriously? I just made a discussion for this. What the point of discussing dispute on their talkpage like EVERYONE else does and make a unnecessary big deal on ANI. --Vauxford (talk) 22:21, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Born2cycle

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Born2cycle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I really don't want to be here, but I think we've reached a point where we need to evaluate whether or not he needs to be sanctioned. For those unaware, Born2cycle was indefinitely blocked by Dennis Brown for what I can only classify as long-term disruption in the RM area (see this AE thread started by me.) He was then unblocked without any discussion. After his unblock, a new AE thread was filed by Black Kite due to continued disruption in the RM area after being as unblocked (see thread.) It was closed as being outside of AE action, and nothing was brought to ARCA or ANI afterwards.
B2C is now fixating on Kidnapping of Jayme Closs, arguing that BLPCRIME should not apply if someone has confessed to a crime but hasn't been convicted and that if sources believe someone is a murderer without a conviction based on a confession, we should call them a killer and say that they killed someone. That is of course a content dispute, but given my history with B2C (see this user talk thread), I felt that alerting them to the BLP discretionary sanctions was appropriate in case it became needed on the kidnapping article. I gave him the alert without comment, and it clearly stated that it was simply informational. His response was to revert me calling me a jerk. I then explained to him why I alerted him: he'd never had a BLP alert, and they need to be given if DS is in effect and may be needed because of conflict. He then responded by calling me unplesant. He then further clarified by accusing me of incivility, apparently for letting him know that BLP sanctions existed.
While I normally have pretty thick skin, I think what we have here is a long-term tendentious editor, who really never should have been unblocked to begin with given the clear consensus for a block at AE the first time, who knows how the AE system works, and responds to people following it with incivility and aspersions. On the whole, I think he's pretty clearly a net negative to the project and think he should be blocked again, but I'm obviously involved, so I'm bringing it to the community to discussion. TonyBallioni (talk) 05:41, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Tony Ballioni that the unblocking of Born2Cycle, a long-term tendentious editor, should never have taken place. AGF and hope springs eternal and all that, but there is nothing in B2C's long history to indicate that there was any possibility that they were going to change their ways. Their modus operandi is fundamentally contrary to Wikipedia's working model, and problems such as Tony Ballioni brings up here will continue as long as he is allowed to keep editing. I strongly suggest that the community consider a site ban. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:47, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The issue can be seen here and at WT:BLP. TonyBallioni should not need to work this hard when pointing out the obvious—there is no reason to identify a relatively unknown person as a killer and child kidnapper before a court conviction. Previous disputes with B2C show they are impervious to other's views and will continue pushing forever. Unless someone can point to major redeeming features an indef would be best. Johnuniq (talk) 06:19, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I just asked the question on a talk page and at least one person generally agreed with my point. So I’m in a civil short talk page discussion about a BLP issue/question that started a few hours ago and is essentially over already, and yet we’re here? Confused... —В²C 06:32, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Just noting for everyone else that the above as this post on my talk is virtually identical to your response the last time I alerted the community to your long-term disruption. This is either a case of just not getting it, intentional obliviousness to how others perceive you, or lack of competence. In any of these cases, the only option is a site ban or indef. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yeah, so I’m consistent. Is that a crime now too? I’m equally bewildered this time as last time as to why anyone would start an AN/I without first at least trying to work it out with the other. —В²C 07:09, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • I did try to work it out with you, I explained that DS alerts are mandatory, and you responded with personal attacks and aspersions. Given my past interactions with you, I decided that nothing more was going to come of discussion unless the community was alerted. TonyBallioni (talk) 07:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • I’m beginning to sense your long-standing prejudices about me, largely based on misunderstanding, inhibit our ability to communicate and work together effectively. I’m sad that you’re so quick to write me, or anyone else, off. I’m going to continue working on improving the encyclopedia where I can. Good luck to you. —В²C 07:40, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Summoned the unblocking admin. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 06:50, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This member of the community has lost all patience with B2C and his complete inability to accept that any view other than his own could even be a legitimate interpretation of policy. The hours of everyone else's time that B2C has wasted with his crusades would be hard to count. Guy (Help!) 08:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding Talk:Kidnapping of Jayme Closs, B2C appears to have said (paraphrasing) "I disagree, but am willing to drop it", a day before Tony started this thread. We do not block editors for having different opinions. I am tired of saying it, but we are not the Thought Police. If you can give me one disruptive edit (as opposed to describing Tony as a "jerk" and "unpleasant", which is not on but is not cause for a site ban), I'll change my mind. I don't see edit warring to restore his (ludicrous and incorrect) perspective on the topic, I see one edit, reverted by another editor, and then discussion on the talk page. Fish+Karate 11:06, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fish and karate, as a note, he did not post that note until I had already opened this ANI thread.
On the issue here is as Guy points out, there is a long-term trend of B2C going on endless crusades to enforce his view on what is Right (tm) (see Sarah Jane Brown and Yogurt.) This had not reached that stage yet, but was going there by all indications, and then he decided to resort to petty name calling after being given a DS alert it was clear nothing was going to be accomplished either at the talk page or on his talk page.
I’m not trying to censor someone: I’m raising the case of someone who is simply unable to work in a collaborative environment. This is early in the process this time but as has been pointed out at both AE threads and above, this is a disruptive editor who doesn’t quit until he gets his way (or on the flip side, is looking at a serious chance of sanctions.) The community shouldn’t be forced into these choices every time he has a new fixation: letting him win, arguing endlessly, or seeking sanctions. That is disruptive, and when taken as a trend over years is enough for an indef imo. TonyBallioni (talk) 11:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You're right, my bad, I looked at the wrong date. I've struck that bit out accordingly. B2C has, though, in this instance, agreed to drop it (or said he will). As all the issues seem to be with BLP, or a significant misreading thereof, would a topic ban from BLPs work? I'm always keen to try and retain editors in some way unless they become a complete and total negative. Fish+Karate 11:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The thing I was thinking of as an alternative to an indef last night was a “1 comment per page in the Talk or Wikipedia talk namespaces per 24 hours” restriction. There are questions as to if we’d want that. I suppose my reason for saying they should go back to being blocked is that they clearly learned nothing from their last block, when the community had already indicated that it had lost its patience with B2C, and now he’s managed to move from RMs to BLPCRIME, which shows it isn’t just a problem with moves. Yes, he’s agreed to drop this thing after being brought to ANI, but the question is whether or not he’ll agree to drop the next one, or the one after that, or that... TonyBallioni (talk) 11:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. We should try to assume good faith, though (WP:PACT notwithstanding), and hope he's learning (albeit slowly). Fish+Karate 11:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Slowly? He's been here for just shy of 14 years and he has over 27,000 edits. How much time do you think he should be given to bring himself into alignment? Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:04, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The fact this time he agreed to let the matter drop suggests to me one is never too old to learn. Fish+Karate 15:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Fish and karate: "a complete and total negative" is not the correct standard. Rather, it is whether they are a net asset or detriment to the project. By your standard, all 27K of the user's edits would have to be problematic, which I can't imagine ever happening.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:32, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you take it completely literally, then yes, well done. That wasn't really what I meant, though; let's go with "a significant net negative" then. Fish+Karate 15:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep, b2c has transcended annoying user status, or cautionary tale of misspent focus, he is an unimplacable, irrepressible, and irreplaceable archetype. cygnis insignis 15:07, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Folks, I do sometimes tend towards thinking that might be a little bit unconventional or out-of-the-box. I feel some of you do not recognize and appreciate that, and I’m being punished for it. This BLPCRIME discussion is a perfect example. I made one edit that was reverted and then I took it to the article’s talk page where the broader issue was uncovered (wording/reasoning at BLPCRIME), so I raised the question at the policy talk page where I think there is a reasonable and self-explanatory discussion, that also spilled back to the article’s talk page. Where exactly is the problem? When consensus changes on WP, isn’t it exactly through discussions like these? If anyone else did what I did, would they have been taken to AN/I? Seriously consider that, please. I hate to pull the persecution card, but I do feel persecuted here. In fact, everything was going reasonably until I decided to weigh in on another dispute that TonyBallioni was involved in regarding adding a link to the See Also section of the same Kidnapping of Jayme Closs article. I happened to agree with the other user and I think TonyBallioni took it personally. That’s when he shocked me with the BLP notice on my talk page (but not on the other user’s talk page - speaking of feeling persecuted) and then, instead of trying to work it out on my talk page, it quickly escalated to here. This filing did prompt some discussion on my and TonyBallioni’s user talk pages that I do feel has been productive, but filing this ANI was not necessary to cause that to occur. —-В²C 14:54, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. I make no suggestion about what action (if any) to take this time around because I wasn't directly involved in the current cycle and haven't pored through all the relevant posts. I just note that there's an apparent pattern that has repeated through several cycles over a number of years: stick-like behavior that toes up to the line of tolerability, sometimes crosses it, sometimes leads to some kind of sanction, followed by a period of comparative quiet, and then a gradual return to the original behavior. Insofar as Born2cycle has many years of experience and a good understanding of many guidelines and policies, his input is beneficial — but that benefit is often offset by his insistence on certain interpretations/applications of policy that are at odds with community consensus, his persistent advocacy for those views to an extent and volume that can be considered tendentious, and a determination to prevail through persistence rather than to accept compromise and move on to other areas. That's just my view based on what I've observed, and I don't know the best solution, but I do agree that it is a concern. ╠╣uw [talk] 18:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • A few years ago В²C and I were in a bitter dispute over an article title issue, and while I've noted any time since that I've seen this come up that В²C does tend to badger and stonewall and relitigate and all the other tendentious behaviours until they get their way or are sanctioned (and so I endorse those observations in this thread) I have never felt along the way that this rises to the level of a site ban. Frankly В²C is a valuable resource in terms of interpretation and criticism of policy, sometimes on very contentious issues. On the present dispute over whether BLPCRIME should apply to someone who has admitted to but not been formally convicted of a crime, there's probably a point to be made there. If the community feels that a sanction is required I recommend it be something which allows them to still participate here. I don't have time today to suggest something so I'm just leaving this here as a comment.
We should very likely also rethink our DS notification guidelines. Being warned by an administrator that you're in a dispute with that administrators have authorization to unilaterally dole out sanctions on a topic is an inherently belligerent gesture even if not so intended (and I'm not suggesting that was Tony's intent), almost rising to the level of using administrative tools to win a dispute. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:33, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. That's certainly how it felt and what escalated this particular discussion into a dispute, unnecessarily in my view. I would hope all administrators involved in discussions know it's not prudent to dole out such warnings to other discussion participants themselves, but, if appropriate, ask an uninvolved admin to do so, for precisely these reasons. Being involved they may be biased and so asking an uninvolved admin to take a look is an appropriate level of precaution. I would think that would be standard practice for admins. --В²C 18:57, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ivanvector, I strongly disagree that an admin giving out a DS alert as a normal editor comes anywhere near tool misuse: the template clearly says it implies no wrongdoing at the time, it is not an administrative action as anyone can hand it out, and I have never once taken any action in regards to B2C precisely because I am involved with him. Simply being an admin does not mean that people you are in a content dispute with don’t get to be notified of DS by you. It means that the admin doesn’t get to use them. I think B2C should be sure banned, or at the very least restricted so his unique form of disruption isn’t allowed to continue, but I have never once abused the tools with regards to him and have always asked the community or other administrators to take action. Comparing following the policy to the letter on how to deal with an entrenched disruptive editor who you are involved with really shouldn’t be competed to tool abuse. TonyBallioni (talk) 21:55, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how delivering the DS alert is tool misuse since as noted anyone can issue them (including non-admins). The only requirement is that involved admins cannot impose sanctions themselves (which Tony hasn't). Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:39, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@TonyBallioni: I don't mean to suggest you did anything wrong and I probably misspoke with my comparison to tool misuse; what I'm saying is that the DS alert process itself is sub-par. Of course anyone can pass an alert to anyone else, for any reason or no reason whatsoever, excepting that you may not alert an editor who has already been alerted within the past year. But by their nature, the alerts are only ever issued in the midst of conflict. I mean, sure, the text of the alert reads "this is just a message for your information" but the action implies "I'm getting my ducks in a row so that a Bad Thing will happen if you don't immediately concede". I apologize for implying that you intended any of this, that's just my general feel for how the alerts are commonly interpreted. Anyway that issue is kind of tangential to this thread, but if you want to chat about it you know how to find my talk page. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:08, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am an editor like B2C who has a large interest in page titling and page moving. While I would definitely oppose to B2C being banned altogether in RM discussion and similar activity, due to the fact that they clearly have a vast interest in this area and can bring a net benefit. I don't however oppose to some lesser ban of B2C, like no closing RM discussions (this was supported by several editors) and no editing policy talk pages (since that appears to be somewhat what this is about). I don't know enough about the BLPCRIME issue to make any comments about it specifically so I'll duck out otherwise there. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:48, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks. I stand by my RM closes. I have had hardly any complaints, no more than average for RM closers, I'm sure. Not saying there aren't one or two questionable exceptions, like with most any other closer. I mostly help out with non-controversial ones anyway. Do you perceive a problem with my closes? What? --В²C 19:53, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I personally don't have a problem with you're closes but I am aware that several other editors do (I think you have had more complaints than most closers, though I do see that many have been from people who frequently disagree with you) and that a RM closure and policy discussion ban would at least be a better outcome than a full RM ban. I'm not saying that I support that you are given a RM closure and policy discussion ban but I don't oppose to it based on the concerns of multiple editors. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:03, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I appreciate your support. We've had our differences too, but have worked them out amicably, I think. Yes? Please don't pile on because a few others who were not able to do so are blowing the wind in a certain direction. If you look at what they're complaining about you'll see that I'm not doing anything different from others, as you already know. A good example is in that AE discussion started by Black Kite linked at the top of this discussion. See my statement there in which I point though I was persecuted for saying too much in a particular discussion, several others said much more. But I'm the one who is "tendentious"? Why me? These are the kinds of things I'm persecuted for. It's really unfair. --В²C 21:24, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes we have indeed managed to work things out, despite sometimes having different views (mainly on long-term significance and ASTONISH). Remember that I'm not supporting anything, I would much prefer to oppose to any restrictions but I can't ignore the concerns of others, which I don't think are entirely invalid. Please continue to participate in page titling discussions etc. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:34, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Crouch, Swale: I think the idea of a ban on closing RM discussions would probably be worthwhile, for a variety of reasons. There's a general principle that closures should be undertaken only by someone who's neutral to the debate; someone without a horse in the race, so to speak. B2C devotes nearly all his time either to specific RMs or to matters of titling policy. The fact that he has a very long history of firmly advocating for his own unique interpretations of such policies as the only acceptable ones, often in ways that have led to disruption and sanctions, does unfortunately raise the question of impartiality in most any closing. ╠╣uw [talk] 20:49, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • * First of all let's consider that this is an editor that doesn't really contribute much to an encyclopedia - They have 27,000 edits, of which only 9% are in mainspace, of which most are related to page they've been involved in moving or otherwise discussing. 75% are to talk pages, mostly involved in arguing and/or discussing page moves. Frankly, B2C should never have been unblocked without a community discussion in the first place - it was a utterly terrible unblock given the persistent disruption in the RM area since (see the AE filing linked in the opening paragraph) - however that is now past history. At the very least, however, he should be barred from closing Requested Moves (there was consensus for that in the first place), and if he has moved onto causing issues (especially BLP related ones) at policy pages, then that needs to be looked at as well. Black Kite (talk) 19:57::18 January 2019 (UTC)
    • We don't all contribute in the same way. Because of my interest in title stability on WP (see my user page and FAQ), I tend to get involved in controversial matters about titles which necessitates many (some long) discussions on talk pages to develop consensus (that's how consensus is developed on WP). That's why so much of my activity is on talk pages working this stuff out. I was recently thanked for a good typical example of this; see Talk:University_of_Klagenfurt#Requested_move_26_December_2018. That some of you choose to persecute me for this approach while others are sending me wikilove notes for it, is disappointing. --В²C 20:13, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I make no comment about when/how B2C was unblocked being correct but I would dispute Black Kite's statement that User:wbm1058 "unilaterally unblocked B2C", the unblock was discussed at User talk:Born2cycle/Archive 14 where it appears several editors favoured unblocking B2C (though apparently with restrictions). I would agree that wbm105 may have been better off posting at AN or asking the blocking admin/AE filer though. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose I'm involved here since I unblocked B2C and have been pinged; frankly I'm annoyed at having to look into his edits again so soon. A distraction from an otherwise productive day for me. I can't really say much more before I read all through this, but two points. (1) SMcCandlish's comments on B2C's talk prompted me to unblock, so I'm pinging them now, in case they wish to review the current drama and add input. (2) I count 15 B2C signatures on Talk:Kidnapping of Jayme Closs – I think you're over your quota there. You should realize that article is running on the center rail; please take some time out to tend to outside-rail maintenance where you have much less risk for receiving electric shocks. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You're annoyed? Sorry about that, but imagine how I feel! The discussion at Kidnapping of Jayme Closs has nothing to do with titles. I'm not sure what quota you're referring to. As to my 26 talk page edits, there are several of us who are working on that article, and discussing various issues as we go. Yes, I have 26 Talk page edits. Joseph A. Spadaro has 40. TonyBallioni has 12. I have 17 edits on the main article also. I don't think that's such an unusual ratio for main/talk article edits considering the care put into a current event article with BLP considerations. Ballioni is 4 main/12 talk, for example. My question: How is anything I'm doing wrong or problematic by any reasonable standard, much less warranting an AN/I? --В²C 22:24, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still reading through this (not that much fun, so bear with me please) but one initial comment. Template:Ivory messagebox (changed to bg=#E5F8FF) is documented as for use in system messages. Personally I don't care to see it being used on user pages for this purpose. The notification about ArbCom sanctions can be delivered without using a loud colorful message box with exclamation point icon and Important Notice section header that will draw the attention of any passerby that visits the user's talk page. Giving the notice in a more "friendly manner" may not have prompted the kind of response it got. I'd prefer sending the message without bothering to use a template. – wbm1058 (talk) 23:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Um... wbm1058 ... the DS template isn't the problem here. The behavior of Born2Cycle is, and your unilateral unblock of them wasn't in the least helpful. Please take ownership of enabling this problematic editor to keep disrupting the community -- a situation you could alleviate by re-instating Dennis Brown's block. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:52, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not to pile on, but this is exactly why it isn't good for an admin to unilaterally unblock someone after there was a community discussion and sanction. I did the original block and I was already very familiar with B2C (for a few years), and not every reason for the block was spelled out in that AE discussion. I did the block as outside AE to make it easier for him to get unblocked, but not to be unilaterally unblocked without discussion. The unblock was a mistake; perhaps an honest mistake, but a mistake nonetheless and B2C had not even requested to be unblocked, so technically, my admin action of blocking was a revert, which is a different animal altogether. B2C is not an unlikable person, or some ogre that sets out to wreck the place, but there exists some peculiar habits that are disruptive to the project on the whole. I don't think it is intentional but it doesn't matter. Having a lack of self control that bleeds into disruption, is still disruption. I haven't been very active since the unblock, so I can't speak to the recent behavior, but I'm not shocked that we are back here, wasting words discussion it. As for what to do now, I'm not up to pouring through diffs. I will leave that to the community. Dennis Brown - 12:58, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For a current example of how my friends hold my behavior to unfair madeup standards, see User_talk:Born2cycle#Please_reopen_RM. Why do I have to endure such harassment? —В²C 15:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way, and not to excuse the inappropriateness of the behavior, but just to point out I'm not the only one to do it, though probably the only one to be taken to AN/I for it, here is another example of someone referring to a poster of a discretionary sanctions notice on the talk page of an experienced editor as a "jerk" [187]. In other words, another example of me being held to standards others are not held to, by those who are biased against with me due to a history of disagreeing with me. --В²C 21:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For the record, I will note that I have no long term history with В²C, I only had one long interaction with В²C a month back over an RM/MRV discussion. I appreciate his contributions but dislike his conduct with others on the talk pages. I have been watching this discussion and В²C's conduct during this thread. TonyBallioni has proposed a solution, but it seems people are divided if it will solve the problem or not. Nevertheless, people are unanimous in their thoughts that В²C's conduct has been problematic. While I was hoping that В²C will accept the concern raised, acknowledge it and propose self improvements. That should have been the ideal closure for both В²C's and community's benefit. Instead lately all I have seen is В²C playing victim card here, for example, his lines right above this comment and on his talk page where in his edit summary [188] he has noted that, "Removing factually incorrect (referenced AN/I isn't even about RMs or titles) persecution statement from person biased against me due to a long history of disagreeing with me". The real problem here is that the person concerned is not even acknowledging the problem, and instead pointing fingers over others and calling them biased.
During my interaction with В²C over the RM discussion of Talk:Jaggi Vasudev and subsequent Move review I was really appalled by his behavior towards everyone who opposed his view point, and especially his conduct towards the closing admin ErikHaugen which can only be described as "'harassment' of Erik" for Erik's perfectly valid closure, simply because B2c wanted to close the RM discussion in way that differed with, how Erik had closed it. During the MRV discussion, SmokeyJoe suggested В²C on his talk page to "dial it down", saying [189] "Erik does not deserve this grief". The harassment was so much, that even ErikHaugen (who I guess is a cool tempered admin) had to put up a question [190] on В²C's talk page, stating in his edit summary "b2c what i do to you??" and in the comment Erik noted some example comments from В²C, and asking " really? Why am I getting this from you?", В²C never responded back [191].
TonyBallioni has indicated that this thread will also likely get archived with yet another warning and then we will be back again. IMHO if TonyBallioni's proposal is not acceptable, something else should be proposed. This should not be left without addressing. Problem has not disappeared so far while ANI kept ignoring it and sweeping it under the carpet. And for sure, the problem will not disappear, even if we ignore this once again. --DBigXray 00:45, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@DBigXray:, believe me, I hear you! I agree my conduct especially towards ErikHaugen was inappropriate in that discussion. I did acknowledge and apologize but then I blew it again. I did not mean to be insulting or disrespectful. In my head I'm just ribbing and having a friendly debate, but in writing without body language and voice intonation I forget it comes off as being harsh. Not that it's an excuse, but, I don't think I was the only one who went off the rails a few times in that heated discussion, and I don't think I deserve sanctions any more than anyone else for it. That discussion finally died down, and you and I were among all of us involved who all stepped back and dropped our proverbial sticks (though I never equate in my mind debates with battles), eventually. So there's that. I'm sure our future encounters will be more congenial. Thanks. --В²C 01:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
NOT RELEVANT TO *THIS* DISCUSSION
@Born2cycle: I am not sure that why DBigXray is trying to be an opportunist when he has been most disruptive throughout that page move and the move review with his repetitive nonsense. On MR, you were always on the point and managed the discussion better than what I was expecting given the bludgeoning that was going on there. I don't see if you were wrong anywhere. Qualitist (talk) 02:10, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that, and I think that illustrates how much being in agreement or not colors one's perception of how words are interpreted. I think you saw my comments as I intended - well meaning ribbing in a friendly dispute. That said, ideally I should be thinking of how anyone who disagrees with me might reasonably interpret my words, and I could certainly do better in that department. Though I understand going too far can also be not productive. For the record, I do disagree with DBigXray's characterization of why I disputed Erik's close, but this is not the place rehash all that again! --В²C 02:21, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see that Qualitist is here as well with his usual lies and deception against me. Looking at the number of comments at Move review of Jaggi Vasudev from all participants, where Erikhaugen had to respond to all 3 of these editors В²C, Paine Ellsworth and Qualitist who were objecting to Erik's RM close. The number of comments clearly speaks for themselves on who was disrupting and bludgeoning. --DBigXray 03:19, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Username !Vote at Jaggi MRV Number of comments
ErikHaugen Endorse (closing admin) 44
В²C Overturn 34
Paine Ellsworth Overturn 32
Qualitist Overturn (Nom) 23
SmokeyJoe Endorse 23
DBigXray Endorse 23
  • This what I meant from the fact you have been "most disruptive throughout that page move and the move review" with your repetitive nonsense. You haven't addressed your issues, including your "repetitive nonsense" that flooded RM and MR, not just MR. But you don't have to worry because you will get the opportunity for it one day since it is very usual to see some editor dragging you to ANI because of your recurring CIR. Qualitist (talk) 03:30, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Phew, glad to know that I don't have to worry. Qualitist may I suggest another third correction after 2 that you already, made to your line above to include "...since it is very usual to see some editor (from the same group that includes Capitals00, MBlaze Lightning, D4iNa4, Orientls, Rzvas, 123sarangi, and their friends) dragging you to ANI..."--DBigXray 04:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are paranoid with your fantasies. You have to learn many things but for now you should better know that you must not be commenting on others conduct by pointing to an incident where you have been most disruptive. Qualitist (talk) 04:24, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since Tony Ballioni's proposal has been closed with no action, I have posted two additional proposals (#Proposal 2 (Born2Cycle) and #Proposal 3 (Born2Cycle)) below. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm familiar with this editor through their participation in WP:RM discussions; I also reverted a diff of theirs here that I feel would have been strongly non-constructive. B2C is clearly an opinionated editor, which is no sin; without opinionated editors we would not have an encyclopedia. They do seem to have a tendency to get into trouble when they make dozens of comments on a topic; I'd recommend that they refrain from making more than 3 comments in any 24 hour period on a specific thread on a talk page. (That's a good rule of thumb for everyone, by the way). power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:55, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Has anyone noticed that this user has pending-changes reviewer rights? https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec-rightschanges/en.wikipedia.org/Born2cycle Another proposal could be the removal of this right as a sanction. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 00:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment That was a dumb idea that I thought of. Sorry Born2Cycle for thinking about that. First of, it is something very little of a privilege. Second, you have extended confirmed privilege, which didn't go thru my head in time that the fact that you have extended confirmed has the same rights almost like pending changes reviewer. Third, the only reason why I thought of it originally was that you could abuse RM discussion pages that have pending changes protection, and having this privilege means that you could control the edits. However anyone can do that who has extended-confirmed... so another reason why it was a dumb idea. Again I am sorry for making that suggestion originally. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 01:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal (Born2cycle restricted to 1 edit per 24 hours)

This proposal is unlikely to reach any consensus. Leaving the main discussion open for potentially another proposal as raised issues are ongoing. Alex Shih (talk) 04:06, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


Okay, given that opinion is split on a indef/site ban, but there does seem to be consensus that B2C's way of interacting with others on this site is disruptive, I'm proposing the following: Born2cycle is indefinitely restricted to one edit in 24 hours per page in the Talk and Wikipedia talk namespace. This sanction may be appealed no earlier than 6 months, and then every 6 months thereafter.TonyBallioni (talk) 22:10, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support As proposer. I think he's a longterm net-negative to the project, and should not be allowed to continue to contribute, but that is unlikely to happen without an ArbCom case, and I don't think anyone wants that. This sanction addresses the problem that people have identified above that he is completely unable to drop the stick or consider the views of those beside himself as legitimate, while still allowing him to participate on Wikipedia and not overwhelm discussions. I think it is a good middle ground, and for those of us who think he falls into net-negative territory is an exercise in WP:ROPE: either this works and he becomes a productive editor, or it fails and it becomes evident to the community that he is not able to reform. Either way, the problem will be solved by this. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:10, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose To namespaces other than WT namespace (and also exclude from RMs in the project namespace, since they occur at the WT namespace), I don't think there has been sufficient problems there. This seems to have been the views of the September AE case, there didn't appear to be much support for banning B2C from individual RMs. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:34, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the persecuted and accused. I deny the charges which are extremely vague anyway, and not even attempted to be proven. I find it ironic that the editor who started this AN/I is accusing me of "interacting with others" in a disruptive way. Who has been disrupted by anything I've said or done? What have I said or done that disrupted anyone? Now look at how many were disrupted for this AN/I. And this latest squirmish all started, by the way, when TonyBallioni jumped in at Kidnapping of Jayme Closs with this surprising edit and edit summary about which he still can't explain the basis at Talk:Kidnapping_of_Jayme_Closs#Joseph_E._Duncan_III. That sure looks disruptive to me... --В²C 22:37, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • You are not a victim. The links to previous discussions about your history have been provided above. You only backed down on that page after the possibility of an indefinite block and you continue to cast aspersions even while this is going on. Coming to a page after you posted about it at WT:BLP and then finding other BLP issues and insisting that they have consensus for inclusion before being restored in not disruptive. That is policy. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I was and remain bewildered by your objection to inclusion of that link in the See Also section (Joseph A. Spadaro and I await your responses to our questions at that discussion section, especially considering what WP:SEEALSO says and the similar examples of See Also inclusions in BLP/criminal related articles I listed), but I admit that it was a mistake and premature to revert your revert, and I apologize. That was out of character for me if you look at my history, but I truly thought you made an error and consensus for inclusion was implied. I won't do that again. --В²C 22:53, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose, mildly, "It is a highly active species. Always on the move and is very squirmish, if handled. " this is the only hit I got, so I want to see that word used more often : ) never change mate. cygnis insignis 22:45, 18 January 2019 (UTC) Too many potential squirmishs in some new approaches, will support a consensus on some form of community pressure to inhibit unhelpful dissent. cygnis insignis 12:47, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless we're going to penalize all overly active participants in requested moves and related discussions the the same way. Although I don't think any action is necessary at this point, I urge B2C to consider this a warning and consider dialing back his participation in said discussions. Calidum 22:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I appreciate that but please know this issue with TonyBallioni was at Kidnapping of Jayme Closs and had nothing to do with RMs or titles. I honestly think he (and a few others) just unfairly judge my behavior through a prejudicial lens and see problems where if others did the exact same thing it wouldn't be an issue at all. --В²C 23:01, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I have argued for many years that B2C needs formal restrictions, this suggestion of edits per page per day is not it. Words per page per week might be a better measure of tendentious verbosity. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:09, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frankly, I'm not understanding the hesitation to indef him. He's been a net-negative for a long time. Hasn't he "exhausted the patience of the community" yet. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:56, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wow. Net-negative? Thank you for sharing your hateful and hurtful opinion. Why is this acceptable? —В²C 01:14, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't be disingenuous, it's hardly the first time you've been evaluated as a net-negative to the project. And it's acceptable because AN/I is where the behavior of editors is evaluated for the possibility of sanctioning -- which you totally know, because you've been discussed here before -- these are all AN/I reports:
The majority of these AN/I reports are specifically about Born2Cycle, while others show his tendency toward being tendentious and disruptive. Note: I stopped when I got to the third page of this. There were at least 2 more pages of listings after it.
So, yes, a net-negative, very much so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:40, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That’s still a tiny fraction of all the discussions I’ve been involved in over those years and in every AN/I case it’s brought here by someone who disagrees with me about some issue, but complains about my behavior which is usually actually pretty typical/normal on WP, and not against any rules, as is made evident when objective uninvolved editors look at it and see nothing problematic to sanction. The bottom line is some people unfortunately take disagreement personally and develop animus towards the person who disagrees with them. I mean, look at how are political leaders are behaving. Some can disagree amicably (I can), but others get pissed off. It’s what has happened with Tony, you, and many others. I should not be faulted or penalized for disagreeing with others. But that’s all that this is about. —В²C 05:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Total outsider who have just kept an eye on this - You don't seem to understand this is not about the fact that you disagree, but how you express yourself and behave when you disagree. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MPJ-DK: Okay, I agree with that much: I don’t understand that this is about how I express myself and behave when I disagree. The reason I don’t understand is because, as far as I know, how I express myself and behave when I disagree is respectful and appropriate per normal standards and applicable WP behavioral policies and guidelines. I’m not perfect, but my perception is my behavior is generally above average in terms of avoiding personal attacks, not being belittling, being civil, not showing disrespect, AGF, etc., when discussing with someone with whom I disagree. Not perfect. Not the best. But above average. So, total outsider, please help me understand. If I’m wrong and it’s not just about people griping about my behavior simply because I disagree with them, but it’s something substantive about how I express myself and behave, please, tell me what it is that I’m doing wrong. Help me understand, and I’ll stop. (By the way, I think this reply exemplifies how I typically express myself and behave when I disagree - can you identify a problem here?). —В²C 07:03, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
MPJ-DK posts 35 words. B2C replies with 180 words, denying the observation and demanding MPJ-DK follow up with an extensive reply to his 180 words. I would call “escalation of verbosity” the central problem. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:59, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Born2cycle: Comment from another uninvolved outside observer: one issue I see reading this thread is that you're responding to nearly every editor's comment. Though the content of the responses may be civil, the sheer volume of responses can have the unintended effect of "choking" conversation, making it difficult for the editors to talk to each other about you, rather than just talking to you. The community may want to see that you know when and how to step back, including maybe now. (Up to you.) Levivich? ! 07:55, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have no doubt whatsoever that you do not understand what it's all about, because if you did, there wouldn't be so many complaints about your editing, because you would have changed the way you edit in response to the piles and piles and piles of complaints. The fact that the complaints continue after at least 9 years, is testament to your lack of understanding, I think.
The only alternative is that you do understand what everyone objects to, but you don't give a damn about their objections and complaints, you just want to edit the way you want to edit, no matter what the rest of the Wikipedia community says.
Those are really the only possibilities: either you don't understand, or you do and are giving the rest of us the finger. Either way, you're a net negative to the project, because you suck up way too much time and energy for the contributions you make (only 12.6% of which go to improving articles, while 51.2% go to talking about them on article and user talk pages). [192]Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:36, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I support “net negative”, although I note some improvement, if we exclude the recent affection to close discussions (actions that must be throughly scrutinised and are frequently found faulty) and attempts to reword policy (including BLPCRIME). —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:34, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this particular restriction as well as a site ban (which is not being proposed). I don't see a perfect solution here. Somehow, В²C has to move beyond the notion he is being persecuted and adjust his behavior but I'm not sure how to do that as blocks are meant to prevent misconduct, not punish editors. I don't think this proposal will solve the problem here which is one of attitude, not number of edits. But just because I oppose this restriction and a site ban (again, spoken of but not being proposed) doesn't mean I champion your behavior, В²C. Can you acknowledge that there are issues with your editing behavior and accept that sometimes your editing can be tendentious? Can you tamp that down? Because while there are some who oppose Tony's proposal, you're unlikely to get off without any restrictions at all as Tony is not alone in his criticism. Can you state how you might change how you respond to those you disagree with and give assurances that we won't all be back here a month from now? Because that is why, usually, editors call for indefinite blocks because they don't want to repeat all of this again and again. Liz Read! Talk! 03:50, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just now reading over the the AE discussion from March, it strongly resembles this discussion, with pleas to change behavior and promises to, which is unfortunate to see again, 9 months later. Apparently, we already have been through this same discussion before. I'm not going to change my Oppose right now but I now think some editing restrictions are called for. If В²C didn't pick up the message being given at AE, what assurances are that this will change now? LizRead! Talk! 04:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Take a look at some of the AN/I reports I just posted links for, and see if it doesn't change your mind. Basically, B2C has been like this from the beginning, he's been in trouble for his behavior from the beginning, and he just never changes. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:43, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, for what it's worth. I find it astonishing that we can be here, on the - what - 15th or more noticeboard report, and hardly anyone seems to think that such a perennial time-sink needs a sanction that will stop there being a 16th or more report, and a 17th, and an 18th ... Black Kite (talk) 07:38, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Attempts to muzzle someone simply for disagreeing with them (whether they realize that’s what they’re doing or not) rightfully should not succeed. —В²C 07:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • More content-free argument. A net negative. Johnuniq (talk) 08:15, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, goodness, the Free Speech gambit. Well, you say you have a right to hold your rally, and I say, sure, but you're not going to hold it in my living room, fella. Another clear indication that you have little or no understanding of what's going on here. As my mother used to say to me, "It's not what you said, it how you said it" -- and you say it disruptively and tendentiously, over and over again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:35, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ugh, not cute anymore. I'm starting to agree with the idea of an enforced break from RM, certainly from closing them. Nevertheless, I consider my exasperation with the user to be my problem, and interaction with this type of editing is a rite we have no means or right to insulate ourselves from. A sort of continuity in our community's history, I suffer from nostalgia on occasion. And he is a good guy, I'm sure, just another stamina junkie is all. cygnis insignis 12:43, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • B2C: The problem — which you seem determined not to hear — is not with the fact that you disagree with others. Disagreement happens all the time, and can be quite healthy. The problem is the tendentious way in which you do it, and the fact that (as others have rightly noted) it's turned into a disruption a great many times over the past many years. That you continue to characterize concerns with your behavior as "muzzling" suggests you're not understanding that point. ╠╣uw [talk] 20:29, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose sanction. With all due respect to Tony who, as I have said on many occasions, is one of our finest and most even-handed admins, I do think this ANI thread is undue escalation. It is clear that B2C has a style of editing that rubs some people up the wrong way, and I can fully understand why that is. He has strong opinions on particular topic areas, and finds it difficult on occasion to WP:Drop the stick. On the flip side, though, he understands our article title policies better than almost anyone and most of the time he is absolutely right about the points he makes. User:Born2cycle/Yogurt Principle is one example - it accurately describes a phenomenon on Wikipedia which has happened in numerous places over the years, where a bad title is eventually replaced by a better one despite many years of failed move requests. New York (state) and Hillary Clinton to name just two. In itself the "Yogurt Principle" is harmless and often useful, yet B2C gets massive criticism for it. Sarah Jane Brown is another case, which Tony mentioned as a "bad thing" in the thread on his talk page. But there are many people, myself included, who think "Sarah Jane Brown" is a dreadful title for the article. It doesn't match our naming conventions, and B2C makes very cogent arguments to that effect on the occasions the matter has been debated over the years. Is that annoying to people who disagree? Yes. Is it against the rules? I don't think so. He doesn't edit war in article space, and he accepted last year's close on the SJB RM. On the actual issue that led to this thread, obviously it is a content dispute, and I can see both sides of the story. Tony felt he was sticking to the BLP rules, and of course B2C should not have called him a "jerk". But then again, as wbm1058 says above, it is possible to convey a message to an experienced editor without using templates designed for newbies, and I would have thought the discretionary sanctions notice could have been posted as a friendly message instead of a template? In summary then, the only crime I can see is that B2C has strong opinions, and sometimes goes too far in expressing them. When that happens, I would urge both sides in to please approach it in a collegiate rather than a combative fashion. B2C should try to understand why people feel annoyed by him, and similarly those who criticise should do more to understand his point of view rather than simply coming to ANI every time there's a dispute. I think calling him a "net negative" is very far from the mark. His presence here over the years has definitely helped our article titles be in a better shape. Thanks, and I hope this makes some sense. — Amakuru (talk) 12:55, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • He is oblivious to his own biases, and will put endless energy and devotion into arguing a peculiar blinkered view. You agree with him at Wikipedia:Move_review#Jaggi_Vasudev, but do you agree with the number and tone of his posts there? His “Yogurt Principle” is a justification for relentless disruption until the noisy group gets its way. My “net negative”, for the last year, assessment is based on the amount of review time needed for every move and RM close he makes, a fair impartial action can’t be trusted without review. You, Amakuru, appear to be the most respect admin who had time for him, why don’t you volunteer to play his “probation officer”, he needs someone on his side who can tell him when to back off or ease off. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:21, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The rules for discretionary sanctions are very strict: notifications must use the specified template before administrators can apply a sanction at their discretion for the topic area in question. isaacl (talk) 18:30, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose sanction. With no due respect to Tony Ballioni or Dennis Brown or any of the other process jockeys that spend all too much authority posturing and no actual project improvement. Govindaharihari (talk) 13:30, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No respect, although it is due? cygnis insignis 13:48, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No respect is due. Govindaharihari (talk) 13:55, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Govindahariahri, your deliberate ill-mannered disrespecting of Tony Ballioni and Dennis Brown -- both of whom have already contributed more to Wikipedia than it's likely you ever will -- reflects more upon your extremely poor judgment than it does on upon anything else. You might want to consider just editing articles and forebear from commenting on the noticeboards, where you constantly embarrass yourself with your ill-considered opinions. Born2Cycle should be worried, because when you show up in support of someone, it's almost inevitable that they're on the cusp of a block. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:56, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't worry BMK, even without his ridiculous comments about Tony and Dennis, the community got to the point long ago where no-one takes any notice of Govindaharihari's comments. Black Kite (talk) 23:32, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I could have written the first paragraph writen by Ivanvector (18:33, 18 January 2019), although B2C and I also agree on other issues. I also agree with User:Crouch, Swale (19:48, 18 January 2019). So I Oppose this proposal--and also the site ban--but B2C please self-moderate and consider this ANI a shot across the bows and not a licence to kill (pun intended). -- PBS (talk) 23:42, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as not actually responsive to the issues that keep bringing B2C back here. I've gone from seeking an indef myself against B2C, back in the day, to more recently being highly critical of the reasoning for the indef imposed on him a year or so back. (I wrote a detailed analysis of why at his talk page some time ago [193]; the short version is that he was accused of doing the same thing over and over and not listening when consensus was against him or ever changing his stance, but that was easily disproved by the actual changes in what he was proposing and why, which were clearly directly responsive to the criticism he was receiving – he simply got railroaded anyway. And the block was invalid for unquestionable procedural reasons, including ArbCom limiting the scope of the case under which he was blocked to specific pages which were not the pages to which he was posting.)

    It would make more sense to use an RM-specific topic ban, than either a general block, or some weird 1RR thing across the entire site, since he never ends up at ANI or other dramaboards for anything not related to RM, from what I can tell, and he's productive outside that one problem area. Sanctions are to be preventative (of actual issues, not imaginary or hypothetical ones), never punitive.
    SMcCandlish ¢ 😼 05:44, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, a topic ban on article naming was what the AE thread had consensus on, but then he was blocked indefinitely so the AE was closed - until, of course, he was unblocked and carried on with the type of editing that got him to AE in the first place. One of the many failings of Wikipedia's arcane processes, unfortunately. Black Kite (talk) 07:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick point: can anyone articulate exactly what I supposedly did that brought me here to AN/I this time, and how what I did supposedly violates anything? BTW, the discussion cited related to Kidnapping of Jayme Closs had nothing to do with titles or RMs. I was actually working in article space trying to improve an article I was interested in and got involved in a content dispute, followed WP:BRD, etc., which led me to informally (no rfc) proposing on a talk page a possible change to a guideline. I honestly don't see what the problem was, so my question stands. To anyone. Why are people talking about RM limitations? I've been (mostly) avoiding being tendentious in RMs. See my history! I feel like I'm being railroaded, again, though I won't rule out the possibility that I'm missing something. --В²C 01:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • You were never "railroaded". Many editors have expressed concern about your editing over many years. You finally pushed far enough that you got yourself blocked. Your constant refrain of "I don't get it" doesn't help. Omnedon (talk) 15:24, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, talk page sanctions are almost never a good idea. We want people to use talk pages to carry out any detailed discussions they wish to have. Having lots of edits on a talk page is not a Bad Thing in and of itself. I don't care if B2C uses a talk page to argue against policy when most think he's wrong, or to disagree with other editors about an interpretation of a guideline. That's what talk pages are for - talking things over. Annoying or not, I have not once been shown that this prolixity and tendentiousness is spilling over into article space and causing any kind of disruption in article space. Fish+Karate 11:40, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to be clear, I don't think anyone's saying that many talk edits by themselves are a problem, or that debating with others on talk pages is wrong, or that article space is being impacted. The concern centers mainly around the long-term tendentiousness of B2C's interactions in talk space, and how that negatively affects the relevant forums and community. ╠╣uw [talk] 18:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some form of action re B2C, but (like others above) I must weakly oppose this proposal. A sanction in the form of x edits per y time period strikes me as a little too arbitrary and unwieldy, and would presumably require constant policing to enforce — and having to constantly sink time into addressing issues caused by this user is one of the things I think the community's trying to get away from. I realize that B2C was blocked[194] for a period in 2018 for similar behavior, and that to judge from the continuing debate it hasn't affected the desired change. That being the case, it seems like another block, perhaps of a longer duration, may be necessary. However, something less severe like banning B2C from RMs for a period might be worth trying. Either way: without action, it seems likely we'll all be meeting here again in another six to nine months to re-debate it.

    My take on the broader situation:

    The very lengthy and regular history of problems that the community has had with B2C over many years (a portion of which was linked above by Beyond My Ken) should, I think, be of at least some concern to anyone interested in the overall health of the project. As I've said before, I don't think B2C is motivated by anything other than a sincere desire to improve Wikipedia... but problems arise from the fact that his views on how to improve Wikipedia are often at odds with the community's — or to be more accurate, the problem is that he takes his advocacy for his views too far, often turning to filibusters, stick-wielding, repetitious persistence to get a particular favored outcome, or other such tendentious behaviors. I feel like these things have a corrosive, negative effect on the nature of debate in the forums, and makes it less likely that users (particularly newer ones) will be willing to engage.

    Concerning though those problems are, the more disheartening part is that B2C rarely acknowledges the problems, and instead voices bewilderment at why he's yet again the center of dispute. I say disheartening because if he hasn't internalized the need for change after so many iterations — and with such similar concerns expressed by such a variety of editors across so many years — I fear that change may never happen. ╠╣uw [talk] 20:19, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Huwmanbeing, all of the people who complain about my behavior, including you, have a history of disagreeing with me. Can you blame for thinking that's not just as a strange coincidence? You mention "filibusters, stick-wielding, repetitious persistence" all of which I admit to being guilty of engaging in to some degree in the past, including arguably in this AN/I discussion itself, but it's not like I'm the only one who has made such errors (including you). More to the point, I was brought here to AN/I this time due to alleged misbehavior that had nothing to do with that. Certainly no examples of me engaging in "filibusters, stick-wielding, repetitious persistence" behavior were cited related to the article in question, Kidnapping of Jayme Closs. So why do you bring up all this unrelated baggage, other than as part of a persecution of me because of our disagreements in the past? How can I get you guys with whom I've disagreed in the past to realize you view my behavior through a different lens than you view others? That you often see issues in my behavior where you would not if anyone else was doing the exact same thing? --В²C 18:35, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It’s all related, it’s all the same thing. The detail of particular disagreements is irrelevant. It’s your inability to understand what others are saying, followed by challenging with escalation of verbosity while missing the point. This is why you should never be closing discussions (RMs or others), or striving to alter policy, because you don’t understand things that don’t fit your views. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, well, if I have a misunderstanding with someone I do try to resolve it with, you know, discussion. That's my big crime? And closing discussions and striving to alter policy? You mean like countless others do innocently in your eyes? But if I do it it's a crime? Because I tend to try to resolve misunderstandings with discussion? Your blatantly biased treatment of me is beyond belief, as you've made abundantly evident, again, today, here: User_talk:Born2cycle#Please_reopen_RM. --В²C 21:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • (ec) Oppose. I do not believe that the proposed sanction would prove to be beneficial for В²C, for editors who are unhappy with his patterns of discussion, or for the encyclopedia. Dekimasuよ! 20:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, I had left this for a few days as it had been frustrating me, but I can always see if there isn't room for a solution I've proposed, so I won't argue this one. I'm personally not sure where we're going here, and you can count me in the same camp as BMK and Black Kite as being confused as to why there's hesitation here: I've never doubted the B2C's heart is in the right place, I just think his long-term behavior is disruptive.
    All that being said, I do think what's being expressed here is that the community is tired of the refusal to get to the point or understand views other than his own. I'd personally be content at this point to have this report closed as a final warning to B2C that on a collaborative project, this type of behavior isn't acceptable. Maybe that will make it so there isn't a 16th or more report or that when the 16th or more report happens, we can have a discussion about another sanction that would prevent the 17th. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:56, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • ....aaaaand... there's currently a discussion on B2C's talkpage about yet another poorly closed RM ... Black Kite (talk) 00:15, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Every time someone says something bad about B2C it is met with accusations of bias or that the other individual has a history of disagreeing with them. This is clearly the behavior of someone who sees nothing wrong in what they do, and the numerous times this comes up have shown that nothing is likely to change until the changed is forced. Nihlus 00:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Seriously? We're talking about talk space edits? B2C's style may be abrupt, in the classic calling a spade a bloody shovel style, but he is engaged in discussing issues on the talk page where it belongs. He is not engaged in main space edit warring or making argument through repeated edit/revert edit summary cycles. Those who are annoyed by B2C might be best advised to grow a thicker skin and worry a bit more actual problematic editors disrupting main space. You may disagree with him but at least he is discussing policy issues on talk space which is surely one of the purposes of talk pages. This smells of a spiteful attempt to silence an opponent, I'm not impressed. - Nick Thornetalk 01:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Nick Thorne, disruption is disruption not matter where it occurs. And your aspersions thrown Tony's way are unwarranted. Nihlus 02:29, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close w/final warning per TonyBallioni b/c it will make everyone happy: the editors that believe no sanction is warranted can be happy that no sanction issued. The editors that believe we will soon be here for a 16th round can be happy that soon sanctions will issue, and likely a more serious one than what was proposed here. After the final warning issues, either the editor's behavior will conform to community expectations, or soon the editor will be banned or blocked. Levivich? ! 02:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 2 (Born2Cycle topic-banned from RM process)

going no where. at last glance we were up to 5-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:24, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

On the basis of the evidence in the previous two sections, Born2Cycle is topic banned from anything and everything to do with moving pages. He may not make page moves, he may not initiate RM or page move discussions, and he may not participate in RM or page move discussions anywhere on en.wiki. He may not solicit RMs or page moves from other editors. The only thing he may do in relation to page moving is to request a move at WP:RM, which request must consist of a single statement with no follow up comments. He may appeal this ban in 6 months.

  • Support as proposer. Second choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:34, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The above discussion which was a lesser proposal than the above was met with clear consensus against it. The strength and policy seem clear to that that lesser proposal was clearly opposed. A few editors suggested a lesser ban like no closing RM discussions or editing policy pages but this proposal is clearly not going to happen per WP:SNOW. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, particularly since it's time-limited and allows Born2Cycle to remain an active editor in other areas, which I think is reasonable. Per the evidence, it's true that nearly all these disputes about B2C's behavior originate from behavior in RMs, and have led to more discussions like this than I care to count. That we continue to have to debate this year after year suggests past sanctions haven't been effective, so IMHO an enforced break in this particular area is worth trying. ╠╣uw [talk] 09:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and speedy close. Shame on you for proposing this Beyond My Ken. I hope whoever closes this reads the previous sections and does not read this section in isolation and it is unreasonable of the BMK to want people to reitterate the opinions they have already given and IMHO there is no consensus among those who have expressed an opinion for this proposal -- PBS (talk) 16:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per PBS. Govindaharihari (talk) 18:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on the whole, honestly because following this issue for the past couple days has left a bad taste in my mouth. I began this comment observing that less than a year ago I suggested basically the same thing regarding the dispute Tony mentioned in his original post. In my view the situation has improved somewhat, but I regret to observe that this improvement seems to be driven by a small number of users who appear to me to be showing up uninvolved whenever Born2Cycle is in any kind of dispute, which is behaviour many ANI regulars know I find distasteful. Born2Cycle, I do hope you take on board some of the constructive criticism offered in this thread and especially consider backing off of some of your more assertive policy wonkery. Take Johnuniq's comment here to heart: "The alleged benefits of the perfect title are not worth the years of dispute". It's especially not worth finding yourself banned by the community, and in my experience on this board this discussion looks like a last chance to me. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ivanvector: Do you have an alternate solution? 'Cause I'm all ears. Or do you think that there is no problem? Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beyond My Ken: I definitely don't think there's no problem, just that it's not a problem of just one user. I don't have a solution, any that I have suggested for problems like this have been drowned out by partisan sniping. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:24, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think it essentially is a problem of just one user. When multiple disruptions occur, and B2C is at the middle of them all, BLUDGEONing left and right, then B2C is the problem, and B2C is the locus of where the solution will be found. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:33, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beyond My Ken:, on which talk pages do you see examples of B2C disrupting or bludgeoning, in January? I don't see it at Kidnapping of Jayme Closs. Levivich? ! 06:25, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask you a rather more pertinent question: in your long history on Wikipedia, haven't you seen this behavior from Born2Cycle over and over again? Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:55, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Beyond My Ken :-) No, that's kind of the point. I've been here two months and while I see problems in the sense of "you talk to much", that's a very common problem (both you and I suffer from that same problem, for example). So where is the diff of him doing or saying something that necessitates this ANI report in the first place? It's not at Jayme Closs. It's not at anything I can see in January. And F2K asked the same question some days ago... where's the diffs? If there aren't any diffs of disruption in the past 30 days, doesn't that suggest just closing this and moving on? Honest question BMK: are you judging this editor based on stuff that happened 6 months or a year or more ago, or are you judging this editor based on their recent behavior, as in the last 30 days? Levivich? ! 19:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am judging this editor based on the totality of their behavior over more than a decade on Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a big problem. I don't think it's fair to judge people based on the past decade of their behavior. People change. People grow. Imagine judging a 25-year-old based on their past decade of behavior. Grossly unfair, wouldn't you agree? People should be judged based on how they've behaved lately. If you can't point to recent examples of disruption, perhaps you should reconsider your stance here. The sine qua non of "not getting it" behavior is an absence of change after complaints have been raised. If there is no recent disruption, that proves an editor is getting it. Levivich? ! 22:38, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, based on your two months on Wikipedia, I don't believe your judgment is sound, and your conclusion really ought to be ignored as uninformed, as the opinions of newbiew usually are.
We are not here to be "fair" (whatever that means in the circumstances), we are here to write and improve an encyclopedia, and it's the needs of the encyclopedia and the community that improves it which are paramount, not "fairness" to any individual editor.
When an editor has been disruptive for over a decade, and has been sanctioned for it and yet continues their behavior, then the only thing that matters is "Is this editor helping the encyclopedia, or hurting it?" As I've said, and a number of long-time editors and admins have agreed, B2C is, overall, a net-negative to the project, and the question of what sanction should be levied against him is not a matter of what happened in the last 27 days, but of what he has been responsible for in the past over a decade of disruption. I'm fed up with him, and he's exhausted the patience of a number of other editors as well. Why he's not exhausted the patience of the community as a whole -- including some very fine editors and admins I respect very much -- is quite beyond me, but that's what makes horse racing. My proposals are based, as I said, on the totality of B2C's disruption of Wikipedia, not on a minuscule portion of it.
As for B2C "getting it", I suggest you consult the editors complaining about the RMs he closed within the last week or so, and pay close attention to Tony Ballioni's comments throughout this very long discussion. There is absolutely no indication -- despite the hopes of some editors -- that he's got any more clue now than he ever had. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:44, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"...and yet continues their behavior..." seems to me to be the key part of what you wrote. If the behavior doesn't continue, then it's not a problem, right? Hence why what happened in the last 27 days matters, and perhaps that's why some editors you respect more than me are not agreeing with you. I haven't seen any recent disruption. Is the Proteza koniecpolska close the only disruption all month or are there others? Levivich? ! 00:15, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Then you're not looking very well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:20, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Coulda saved a lot of typing by just saying, "No, I don't have any January diffs." :-P At least we agree on one thing: all this could've been avoided if it was just renamed to Zarajanovic Braunislav. Levivich? ! 06:14, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Power-enwiki: Then what will? I'll withdraw my proposals in favor of one which (1) will control B2C's behavior, and (2) has a chance of being supported by the community. However, I'm not of the mind that there is no problem to be solved. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:45, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • If something along these lines were necessary, the exact opposite proposal (that B2C is banned from everything except move discussions) would be better for the encyclopedia. RM is sometimes contentious, but trying to remove all the contentious editors from that process will not improve it. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:43, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my comment above. That proposal didn't gain consensus, so quite why anyone thinks a harsher punishment will is beyond me. I suggest people stop beating a dead horse and move on to something else. — Amakuru (talk) 22:59, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed this is like trialing changing someone for murder after being found not guilty of manslaughter. When a more appropriate trial would be a lesser offence like OAPA 1861 would be more suitable. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:15, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Ivanvector, specifically the comments regarding the small number of users who show up when B2C is subject to ANI. IMO this is evidence of a personal war between editors, and that's disturbing and unconstructive to building an encyclopedia. RandomGnome (talk) 04:29, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support something like this, though the exact wording of this one is self-contradictory (someone can't be simultaneously banned from RM them told that their only RM recourse is to open an RM – Beyond My Ken, please consider revising). Almost all of B2C's troubles have been RM-connected, and are more particularly to do with bludgeoning the process, so a better-written restriction that curtails that activity is the way to go. Prevent the problem behavior without treating the otherwise productive editor like a vandal. Some simpler wording might be something like "prohibited from moving pages directly, or making repetitive comments in an RM discussion", though some middle-ground revision might work, if that's too concise.

    PBS and Crouch,_Swale seem to be missing something important in their above assumptions that proposal 2 (in some wording or other) is more restrictive, more heavy-handed, than the rejected proposal 1. It is far less so, being circumscribed to a particular topic/process, while the original would have curtailed B2C's ability to edit and even to communicate in all topics and all processes without reasonable cause for doing so (as would proposal 3 and then some, being a flat-out siteban). Meanwhile, if you work your way through the contradictory wording, even proposal 2 as initially written doesn't prohibit B2C from participating in a process (RM), it just requires any participation in it to be within some constraints. It is narrowly tailored (though needs better wording) to fit the actual B2C-related problem we keep coming back to at ANI and other noticeboards.
    SMcCandlish ¢ 😼 03:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I can be convinced otherwise, but I don't think it's contradictory, per se, it states the broad condition first (i.e. topic banned from everything connected to RM or page moving) and then gives the sole exception (to go to the RM page and request a non-controversial technical move). Big cloth, with one hole in it; brick wall with one window. If there's a better way of expressing that, please let me know and I'll consider revising. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:45, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SMcCandlish: Unless I've missed something the proposal in this section is "Born2Cycle is topic banned from anything and everything to do with moving pages" while the one directly above was "Born2cycle is indefinitely restricted to one edit in 24 hours per page in the Talk and Wikipedia talk namespace", since B2C doesn't make many (let alone multiple within 24hs) comments outside RMs, the last proposal was less than this one (nothing at all to do with moves apart from nominating at RM). Nothing indicated that either proposals were merely suggestive wording, but rather the proposed letter of the sanction. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (with corrections for self contradiction pointed by SMcCandlish) As I have elaborated in the opening thread about the recent RM thread I came across, I feel we have already passed the warning stage. Based on the history of ANI and AE threads and a previous block for same reasons, the warning stage was long gone. Criticism via previous threads and self enforced restrictions have all failed thus far. The discussion in the section before proposals and closed proposal have actionable evidence diffs that merits some sort of restrictions. staying away from RM might give him a chance to contribute elsewhere. So I feel this is a reasonable choice.--DBigXray 17:38, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Update: If the RM threads is all/most of what he contributes and it is turning out to be disruptive, then a topic ban on RM seems like a proper remedy to handle this and can avoid a complete siteban. This topic ban will also give B2C a chance to engage constructively in other areas and demonstrate that he can change, and then appeal to get the RM topic ban lifted. --DBigXray 08:11, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PBS. This far too punitive. Calidum 19:33, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because I don't think silencing an editor is a good thing, and for the reasons stated by Ivan. Levivich? ! 21:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with corrections per DBigXray. There are demonstrable problems with B2C's behaviour with RMs and it's time for it to stop. The only way to do that is to separate him from the process. Thryduulf (talk) 10:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my oppose in the original proposal, and this also seems to be unrelated to the issue he was brought here for. Dekimasuよ! 21:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • When an AN/I report is opened, the totality of the subject editor's behavior can be examined, and usually is, since it provides the context in which the proper sanction can be devised and imposed -- or not, if none is deemed warranted. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:52, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It seems that the majority of issues that this user creates for the community is caused by the results of their edits relating to RMs. For this reason I think that placing a RM topic-ban would be good enough, as that is the main source of the problem with this user. As stated above and thuout this discussion, it seems that the user is making a lot less anywhere outside of the RM process. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 22:13, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support My first ever encounter with B2C was just a couple of weeks ago and, though I found them to be an essentially civil editor, they were (as will come as a surprise to no one reviewing the record here) bludgeoning an article rename discussion into the ground (over a two day period, they made more posts than the other seven contributors to the discussion combined). The issues were eye-catching enough that I looked into their history and discovered that they had been brought here to ANI and and to AE on repeated occasions, and ultimately blocked by a concerned admin for being unable to control themselves with respect to RMs, (and as has been recounted here, they were later unblocked in good faith but without the word of caution the blocking admin had requested--that it be done only on the condition of it coming with strings attached vis-a-vis RMs).
I don't know what it could possibly be about the RM process that is so attractive to this editor, but insofar as it functions as a moth-to-the-flame scenario (or perhaps to tailor the language to the exact behaviour here, the mouth to the flame who then madly dashes around charring the immediate environs) I can certainly support the community stepping in to exercise the control this user does not apply for themselves; going straight back to editing almost exclusively in the same area that got one blocked suggests a significant level of WP:IDHT and lack of both perspective and responsiveness to community concerns, despite the number of discussions in which said concerns have been voiced. A topic ban may prove insufficient; we may find the bludgeoning and disruption transferred to other areas. But it's at least worth a shot as a reasonable, intermediate option before we consider a full CBAN. And honestly, I would suggest to those who are inclined to argue for B2C's value as an editor, that they are doing this user no favours by opposing all proposals here: if something isn't done to redirect their energies, what I have seen of the record suggests that they will get themselves removed entirely, instead, with time. Snow let's rap 07:34, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 3 (Born2Cycle banned)

going no where. at last glance we were up to 5-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 15:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

On the basis of the evidence provided in the previous two sections, Born2Cycyle is site banned from editing English Wikipedia as a net negative to the project. He may appeal this ban in 6 months.

  • Support as proposer. First choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:34, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per my comment above, this is even an even greater restriction than the one directly above. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as alternative to #2 (my preferred option). I observe in posts above that B2C still seems to be leaning on accusations of bias and claims not to understand why others' are concerned about his behavior. While it's unfortunately a very familiar response, it doesn't inspire confidence that either one of these proposals will make him internalize the need for change, but it's still worth trying. ╠╣uw [talk] 09:54, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support only choice (though I won’t oppose the RM one.) while proposal 2 would limit the RM related disruption, as we’ve now seen B2C is perfectly willing to find other positions that he’s willing to crusade over. The BLPCRIME discussions would still be ongoing about how we should ignore the BLP policy for confessions if this ANI wasn’t started and he had to shift his energies here. As some have pointed out above, the problem itself can be seen in this very thread where he overwhelms discussion, doesn’t get it, and casts himself as a victim. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:40, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and speedy close. Shame on you for proposing this Beyond My Ken. I hope whoever closes this reads the previous sections and does not read this section in isolation and it is unreasonable of the BMK to want people to reitterate the opinions they have already given and IMHO of there is no consensus among those who have already expressed an opinion to support this proposal. There is a clip on youtube about Brexit that could apply to these two new sub-sections -- PBS (talk) 16:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmmmm.... I suppose your "shame" also applies to Tony Ballioni, isaaci, Arthur Rubin, Swarm, Thryduulf, Huwmanbeing, SMcCandlish, and DBigXray, each of whom supported at least one of the two proposals you "shamed" me for. In actuality, of course, the only shame is in allowing Born2Cycle to continue their disruptive decade-long behavior. What, exactly, do you propose be done about it, or do you think consistently WP:Bludgeoning other editors is just fine and dandy? Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:00, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Applied to the situation as a whole, the clip is on point. This seemingly is something like the 15th such discussion just at ANI... ╠╣uw [talk] 19:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per PBS. Govindaharihari (talk) 18:05, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my comment in the first proposal. This seems to be a more serious version of that proposal, and so I am likewise more seriously opposed. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:09, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my comment above. That proposal didn't gain consensus, so quite why anyone thinks a harsher punishment will is beyond me. I suggest people stop beating a dead horse and move on to something else. — Amakuru (talk) 23:01, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PBS. Reading through the comments from some of those very keenly involved in this effort to permanently eject an editor from the community, I can't help but think this is part of an ongoing long-term personal war between editors. RandomGnome (talk) 04:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, we should not be afraid of people with opinions other than our own, nor should we want them to be removed just because we don't like that they are prepared to argue with us. B2C does not cause disruption to articles. A tip for all - whenever you see someone being described as "editing tendentiously", this is almost always a faux-polite way of saying "I find this user annoying". Being annoying most assuredly does not warrant a site ban. Fish+Karate 10:08, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although tendentious behaviour is not mutually exclusive with annoying behaviour, the real hallmark of tendentious editors is they assume that any resistance to their edits is founded in bias towards an opposing point of view. (taken from the essay on tendentious editing) As described in previous statements and seen in this discussion, this is a common behaviour of the editor in question. This can lead to budgeoning discussions, also discussed in previous statements, which is disruptive to the community decision-making process. I support any action, including this proposal, to help provide incentive for more collaborative behaviour, rather than continuing to dismiss criticisms as being other people's problems. isaacl (talk) 17:38, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as first choice. Support (almost) any sanction considered (as I don't frequent ANI) that much. I've been involved with a number of his move wars (I think, back in 2015), and, if he hasn't learned not to do what led to his block, he needs time off to reconsider. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:57, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as excessive. A far less restrictive original proposal was strongly rejected, so this has no chance. This looks like a labeling exercise, and it isn't actually supported by evidence, anyway. B2C's issues have almost entirely been confined to one area (RM); he is not a "net negative to the project", just arguably to a single process (though actually less so over time). SMcCandlish ¢ 😼 03:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Except that at least 90+% of what he does is involved with that process, so the overall is a net negative, in my view. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:48, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as too excessive when weighed against the severity of the problem. Levivich? ! 21:11, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per BMK. I really don't see any strong argument whatsoever that this user is not a net negative, but plenty of reason to ban. ~~Swarm~~ {talk} 08:00, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Something needs to be done to prevent B2C engaging in the same disruption to the project he has engaged in for a decade or so, if a site ban is the only way to do this then unfortunately a site ban is required. Thryduulf (talk) 10:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my oppose in discussion of the first proposal. Dekimasuよ! 21:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I think at this point, an indef ban is too much. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:02, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I think that BMK is not taking into account how the net affect of the user's edits would be different if RM related things were not to be considered. I think that if the main problem is related with the RM area, and the user gets topic banned from things related to RM, the user might have a positive net affect. Now considering the fact that the majority of the user in question's edit is in the RM area, a topic ban from the RM related things would almost be quivalent to a ban. If the user actually notices at that point the problems that they are creating, they can then actually still show how they can make this place more positive by editing things outside of the RM area in good ways. What was stated in the previous sentence would not be possible if the user is banned. Now in the scenario that the user ignores the topic-ban, then I would be in support for a ban. Also I agree with User:Sjones23 at the situation at the current moment that, a ban really seems to harsh at the moment. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 23:10, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 4 (Born2Cycle limited to one comment per day in RM discussions)

Given that the two previous proposals seem destined to fail, I would like to propose another possible solution that I think addresses the issues raised without placing an unreasonable restrictrion on B2C.

Boorn2Cycle is limited to one comment per thread per day in RM discussions.

  • Support as proposer. This will prevent the alleged bludgeoning without unreasonably restricting B2C's ability to express his opinion.- Nick Thorne talk 09:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Of the 3 issues people have brought up about B2C (closing move discussions that he/she appears to be biased on, editing policy talk pages and making multiple comments in move discussions) the making multiple comments in move discussions seems to have been the least problematic. In addition if you look at this post, you can see that many others do this also. As I pointed out before, there was some consensus to prevent B2C from closing move discussions and editing policy talk page but little on making comments (even repeated) at RM discussions. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:34, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose per Crouch, Swale. Also, that's inherently unworkable in a discussion. Wouldn't the most effective/least restrictive "solution" be that B2C not move pages as the result of RM discussions or close RM discussions? I don't see that as a proposal.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:43, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Dlohcierekim, would you mind making a proposal? We need some sensibility here as I am sure you could agree. ―Matthew J. Long -Talk- 00:27, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • @MattLongCT:"We need some sensibility here as I am sure you could agree."-- Ain't it the truth. Proposal 5 seems to be gaining traction, so let's wait. B2C's "oppose" tells me they are neither willing not able to deal with the problem behavior. Nor, I suppose, do they see the problem.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:50, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as this is basically the exact same thing I proposed in the first place, but limited to RMs. I still maintain that now that he's found other hobby horses, the disruption is just going to spread, but okay, let's give this a try. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:11, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - third choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:30, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per my comment in the proposal 2 discussion. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:31, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as second choice. (my first choice is RM topic ban) Based on the history of ANI and AE threads and a previous block for same reasons, the warning stage was long gone. Criticism via previous threads and self enforced restrictions have all failed thus far. The discussion in the section before proposals and closed proposal have actionable evidence diffs that merits some sort of restrictions. I doubt this proposal may stop the problematic behavior but will certainly be helpful for the RM participants. This can be tried.--DBigXray 17:43, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per Ivanvector. RandomGnome (talk) 20:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Ivan's comment in Proposal 2, and my oppose there as well, based on my general opposition to muzzling editors. Also this is unpractical. You'll get one giant wall-of-text per day in any discussion in which B2C takes part, because he'll have to respond to 24hrs worth of comments in one shot. It will also get in the way of other editors taking part in a discussion with B2C because they'll have to wait 24 hours for any questions to be answered. Levivich? ! 21:16, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - As a bare minimum. ~~Swarm~~ {talk} 08:01, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I only came across this discussion by accident and my first response was "Is he still here and still getting away with disruptive editing?" Deb (talk) 08:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this will just slow down the tendentiousness not prevent it so would be pointless. Thryduulf (talk) 10:53, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I have not seen any problematic contributions in to RM so far. Kraose (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but prefer a modification. Better to count words, or characters, than "one comment", although is much better than "one edit". "A maximum of 1000 words per week on any single topic in dispute, across all pages, with the exception of his own user_talk and other own userspace." How he divides those 100 words is his decision, but it would be great if he would make them concise and only in the relevant place. As we can all see with BLPCRIME, which was nipped early by this thread but no so early that the pattern was not clear, the problem is not restricted to RM, and and instances of the problem rapidly spread to other pages. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:23, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I am not even going to bother commenting on the other more restrictive proposals since there seems to be no consensus that can be reached. These aren't votes, but I still don't want to waste my time when I see perfectly legitimate arguments get so dragged down by excessive badgering. I do feel B2C needs to cut it out with the way he has been acting on this thread for the most part. I was seriously indifferent until I saw he was taking the behavior to ANI. He doesn't seem to get what he is doing. That's a problem. Let's at least do this. ―Matthew J. Long -Talk- 00:24, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, somewhat weakly just because I'm not a big fan of sanctions that limit behavior to an arbitrary number of instances (but agree that it's preferable to no response at all). ╠╣uw [talk] 01:27, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The fact is that the other two proposals seem to be more of a better solution than this one to the problem. The major problem with this solution is that the user could make each one RM related discussion edit that they do everyday non constructive. In the end it will come back to a AN/ANI issue all over again. This specific proposal is almost basically a topic-ban. Lastly there is no in system mechanism that prevents the user from making a second edit on a RM discussion in a single day, where as like in a block the system itself prevents the user from editing anything. The main point that I am trying to say here is that it will take as much work to make sure that the user in question is abiding to this proposed sanction (if enacted) as it would if the topic-ban proposal sanction was to be enacted. Why choose the less useful option when the better option (the topic-ban proposal), would take the same amount of time and work to enforce. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 23:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per SMcCandlish and others. I think it’s time to drop the stick and move on. B2C has had the Sword of Damocles dangling over his head far too long now. Calidum 18:02, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Multiple comments in RMs isn't really the reason for these proposals, just a way to have him sanctioned for something. FineStructure137 (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 5 (Born2Cycle warned)

Sigh, as this was what I had proposed at the end of the first proposal before it was shutdown, I'll propose it formally: Born2cycle is warned that excessive comments in discussions can come across as bludgeoning, and that the community considers this to be disruptive. He is given a final warning that if he exhibits these behaviors in the future, he may face sanctions.

  • Support as the thing most likely to achieve consensus. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:11, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, simply because ending this with no action whatsoever is totally unacceptable, and my two proposals above aren't receiving much traction (although more than it appears on first sight). I support this as the very least acceptable action -- in other words, my fourth choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:27, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because this feels like a witch hunt now, and also my comments in the second proposal. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • FWIW, I had proposed this a few days ago in the first proposal, and it had gotten some support before it was shut down. I didn't propose it formally because of the other sanction proposals above, but did now in hopes of getting some sort of closure to this thread that could gain consensus. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:40, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm striking my oppose since no formal sanction is involved, and this is also basically the gist of my proposal 2 comments that I keep referring to. I fear this warning being used as a sword of Damocles by some people who probably know who I mean by now, though, and for that reason I will not support. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:30, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As I have elaborated in the opening thread about the recent RM thread example I came across, This proposal is the bare minimum that should be done if this ANI thread gets closed, even though I feel we have already passed this warning stage. Based on the history of ANI and AE threads and a previous block for same reasons, I think the warning stage was long gone. Criticism via previous threads and self enforced restrictions have all failed thus far. The discussion in the section before proposals and closed proposal have actionable evidence diffs that merits some sort of restrictions.--DBigXray 17:34, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a bare minimum, though I do suspect that even if this passes, we are going to end up here again. Or, more likely, at AE. Still, worth a try. Black Kite (talk) 17:35, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I (as someone who has supported B2C) would be fine with this, however I'd largely change excessive comments in move discussions to closing move discussions that B2C is likely to be seen as biased for the reasons I gave in the above section, TonyBallioni do you agree with this? Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Note that I don't see a problem with B2C closing controversial RMs just those that are borderland on what the best title is and that he/she is likely to be seen as biased, if both don't apply I don't see a huge problem. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:10, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I generally agree with B2C in most things related to article titles, but I support this because he has exhibited the behavior described above. It’s not block worthy at this point though. Calidum 19:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Define 'excessive'. Is it excessive, or just oppositional to editors who don't like what he has to say? B2C's comments don't exist in isolation, so are those opposing his views also being 'excessive' in their commenting? This prop seems open to trouble from the get-go. I think this would be better phrased with a clear definition of the amount of commenting/number of comments - which was done in the previous proposal, though my opinion is that Prop 4 is too restrictive on B2C at this point. RandomGnome (talk) 20:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The community is typically very tolerant of minority opinions. I have many of those, and can be verbose, and I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone want me to be sanctioned for it. The fact that even those opposing sanctions have negative B2C stories and experiences shows that he pretty much steamrolls over the line between vocal dissident and WP:IDHT/WP:BLUDGEON.
      In terms of defining, that’s difficult to do, but it’s a definition that the consensus/comments at ANI and AE will help define if another report is ever made. The take home lesson here should be “stop repeating yourself over and over until others give up or people just don’t comment at all.” TonyBallioni (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question 1: It's very common, perhaps even occurring more often than not, that whenever I comment a lot in an RM discussion, at least one other editor is commenting more than I am. Why am I being singled out for this behavior? I think context matters, and I realize I have been problematic in this area in the past, years ago. But that was brought to my attention, and I've tried very hard to not be bludgeoning, in particular by avoiding being repetitive, as I was prone to do in the past. I'm a bit confused as to why this is being brought up now, as the alleged misbehavior on my part this time was not excessive commenting nor bludgeoning, nor even in an RM discussion, and no recent examples of such behavior have been cited, as far as I know. Where is the recent/relevant evidence supporting such warning to me today? Can anyone clarify? --В²C 20:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question 2: In the real world, a key characteristic of our justice system is that judges and jurors don't personally know the accused. I mean, Rand Paul doesn't get to be on the jury of the neighbor who body slammed him. Jayme Closs won't get to be on Jake Patterson's jury, of course (and not just because of her age). But here on WP, while I don't have a problem with involved editors making a case against another editor as has been done here, and "testifying" about their experience with the accused, it seems to me that only editors previously uninvolved with the accused editor (and, ideally, with the accuser(s)) should be able to determine and !vote about whether there is actual wrongdoing by the accused and what, if anything, the "sentence" should be. As the accused here, it feels really unfair to have all these people with whom I've had disputes in the past, many of whom have expressed animosity towards me, weighing in about whether and how I should be sanctioned or warned. Anyone know why it it is like that here, and/or whether an "objective judge/jury" approach has been proposed and considered before? Thanks. --В²C 20:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Generally speaking, Wikipedia is not a court of law and we don't operate on presumption of innocence or anonymity of the jury or any of that (good!) legal stuff, we operate on a consensus model of community-moderated decision making. It works well, but we also tend to get old enemies coming out of the woodwork shouting "'e turned me into a newt!" whenever old conflicts are triggered, and in my opinion that's a weakness of the whole thing. However, we also have the Arbitration Committee for more complicated disputes, which this really isn't. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In this discussion, I count ten times you've expressed your view that those expressing concern about your behaviour have been in disagreements with you. In addition to being repetitive, it isn't encouraging to those trying to provide feedback on your actions, as it feels like the feedback will be swiftly dismissed. Regarding who should be involved in a community discussion, in a volunteer environment, those completely uninvolved with a given situation are a lot less likely to want to invest the time and effort in learning the complete context and then weigh in. (You can consider how many times you've chosen to provide an opinion on a matter in which you were previously completely uninvolved, versus the number of times you've provided opinions on matters in which you were involved.) In the legal world, judges are paid to adjudicate and jury duty is mandatory. isaacl (talk) 05:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, as I had supported it per Tony in Proposal 1 before it was closed, and to Ivan's point, I support this because it's a Sword of Damocles, which is what I feel is needed, based on B2C's excessive (in my opinion) posts in this thread, and also the content of those posts, which don't give me hope that the message is being heard. For example, Questions 1 and 2 just above here. My answer to Question 1 is: "other people do worse" is never a valid argument for anything, and this is not "being brought up now" but has been brought up, from what I can tell, many times before. B2C, I really can't believe you'd make such an immature point as "other people do worse" or "why am I being singled out?" You really, after all this time, don't understand how your behavior differs from the norm? If so, you better start paying attention to what people are telling you! For example, you didn't need to ask Question 1 or 2. Those questions aren't questions, they're defenses, and they're focused on the behavior of the community, rather than being focused on your behavior. My answer to Question 2 is: this is not the real world; in courtrooms, people's rights are at risk; here, only privileges are at risk. In courtrooms, the government is taking away rights. Here, there is no government, it's a self-organizing consensus-based community. It's an entirely different situation, and I worry that B2C doesn't understand this very basic aspect of Wikipedia. My concern is B2C is more interested in defending himself and being proven right than in really changing his behavior in response to community concerns. I wasn't going to !vote in support of anything but I strongly agree this needs to be closed with some kind of action, this is most likely to get consensus, and a Sword of Damocles will at least help prevent a second lengthy discussion like this. I'm OK with the word choice "excessive", because what's excessive will vary from case to case. I trust an uninvolved reviewing admin can make that judgment call if the need arises. I hope it won't. Levivich? ! 21:06, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Striking out my support !vote after reading this detailed analysis of B2C's original block concluding it shouldn't have happened, which led to his being unblocked, along with the AE that led up to it, the AEs since, a couple of the past ANIs, and a bunch of stuff on various editor's talk pages. At those AEs, ANIs, etc. I see the same names over and over again. Looking at the thread cited in this ANI, Talk:Kidnapping of Jayme Closs, I don't see anything objectionable that B2C is doing. Dropping a DS template on an editor while in the middle of a talk page dispute is, if not jerky behavior, certainly unpleasant, and that would be true no matter who does it. The Jaggi Vasudev RM and MR that was pointed to did show problematic behavior, but that was back in November–why would we issue a warning based on that now? I don't see any recent behavior that justifies this ANI thread, or a final warning, or any sanction. I think B2C's tendentious arguing behavior was brought out in this thread, and folks are alarmed because of it (I was one of them), but after having a fuller understanding of the history, I believe B2C has essentially been provoked. I don't know if I would oppose a final warning or just stay neutral, but I'm coming around more to the opinions expressed by Ivanvector (witch hunt) and F2K (show me the diffs) on this matter. Levivich? ! 06:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That “detailed analysis”, one person’s take, which you must note includes a lot of points one what B2C could be advised to to better, must be noted was an opinion that could not be responded to without perpetuating the already bad grave dancing. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Enough already. Guy (Help!) 21:25, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this symbolic reminder. Next time: B2C is weak on nuance and subtlety, big on objective, so I think he would need an objective constraint. The central problem is tendentious verbosity, and which only escalates when he is cornered. The counter rule: A maximum of 1000 words per week on any single topic in dispute, across all pages, with the exception of his own user_talk and other own userspace. No limit on edits, because he should be encouraged to edit his own posts to improve concision. Also, due to unclear trust in judgement of reading consensus (a very nuanced, non-objective skill), no more admin actions (closing discussions, closing RMs, even relisting) without a formal admin mentor. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a minimum. Thryduulf (talk) 02:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If you haven't made your point after three or four posts, it's time to move on and spare the rest of us. Write an essay on how unfair life is, but give the community a rest. Johnuniq (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question 3. What constitutes “excessive comments in discussions“? In most discussions I comment only once or twice, but often I’m part of a negotiation towards a consensus and that can take considerable back and forth to come to a mutual understanding and to work out any misconceptions and differences. Here, for example, is a recent RM discussion where I commented five times in a classic WP consensus building process. Was that excessive? Who decides, how, and how am I to know whether I’m close to the line, much less crossing it? Some discussions require more to get there. Often it can look excessive at first glance, but when you actually read the discussion closely you can see how it develops, or is attempting to develop (not always successfully!), consensus. As to SmokeyJoe’s insinuations about my consensus reading, I believe I have as solid a record as any other RM closer. Of the dozens if not 100s of closes, I don’t recall ever even being taken to MRV, much less overturned there. I have had two closes reverted by an admin, that I can recall, one of which was subsequently closed by another admin almost identically to how I closed it. I think the other went the other way. Nobody is perfect. —В²C 07:20, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • At that RM, User:Cambridge51 could be accused of excessive verbosity and badgering, but it takes a trend, and he is vindicated by actually succeeding in persuasion as opposed to ineffective repetition. You’re going to dig your heels in as the exemplar closer are you? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:34, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant support - I feel this remedy is below the bare minimum, but if it's the only feasible progress made by this thread, I must begrudgingly support. The above question, in which the user demonstrates a lack of competence to even accept a hypothetical warning against WP:BLUDGEONING behavior, is, alone, enough to convince me to support this. I would like to see stronger measures, but if this is all we're going to get out of this, so be it. However, I strongly reject SmokeyJoe's use of the word "symbolic". IMO, the emphasis is on "final warning". ~~Swarm~~ {talk} 08:05, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Consider my use of that word to be intentionally provocative for the next time this happens. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:34, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • minimal support for a minimal remedy Recommend that B2C step away from the computer more often each day. Clear the mind. Smell some roses. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • question 1 from-- Dlohcierekim (talk)Are we seeing an example of the problematic behavior in this discussion?-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:18, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This warning is not based on any violation of any policy or guideline. WP:BLUDGEON has been cited, but it is an essay, not a policy or guideline, and it describes fairly common practice, especially in RM discussions. Also, the key point made there is that bludgeoning is an ineffective or even a counter-effective method of argument, not so much that it causes problems to others. In others words, the big problem with bludgeoning is that it’s shooting yourself in the foot. Okay, so let’s discourage it for those reasons. But does it mean shooting oneself in the foot should be a crime? When someone else engages in the common practice of responding to (nearly) every comment in a discussion, I read or ignore them depending on my level of interest. I choose to engage or not based on my level of interest. Such behavior in no way discourages me from participating, and I don’t see why anyone would be discouraged from participating if I’m the one doing all the comment responses. So I don’t see such behavior is disruptive. Seeing all the supports above is painful to me, and it looks like I’m going to be warned, but I hope it comes with a clear explanation to this point as well as my three questions above. Thank you. —-В²C 07:56, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • If you know what "shooting yourself in the foot" means, B2C, you should be aware that you have literally just done it. Deb (talk) 08:31, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • What does that mean? Can anyone here speak directly in plain English, please? So the community’s reaction to my shooting myself in the foot is to pile on and shoot me some more? Look, some find the practice of commenting a lot to be annoying (those who characterize it as “bludgeoning”), others don’t mind and are sometimes persuaded by it. I provided an example above. I’m not aware of any scientific analysis showing whether on average it is persuasive or counter-productive. But that’s beside the point. The main point is that it is behavior that is harmless to others and the work that we do, and therefore should not be punished, sanctioned or even cause warnings to be issued, and that’s why people engage in it all the time with no issues. Singling me out for warning me about behavior that is considered acceptable whenever others do it - but may lead to sanctions for me if I continue to do it - is blatantly unfair and unjust. Too much commenting on talk page discussions like this? That’s a wikicrime? Where is it documented? No matter what’s going on in an RM discussion section on the talk page of some article does not prevent others in any way from discussing article content improvements in other sections. So how can over-commenting be disruptive? And if it can, shouldn’t consensus be developed to clearly describe and explain the supposed problem on a policy page, before anyone is sanctioned, or warned, for it? —В²C 09:33, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • You seem to be admitting to "over-commenting". Anything that starts with "over-" is likely to be disruptive. Deb (talk) 11:17, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Some folks may want to reconsider their !votes on the proposals above on the basis of these two comments from B2C.
        • Tell me again about how he is "getting it." Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:48, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Your comments are illustrative of the concerns others have raised. You asked people to tell you their concerns, they responded, and you replied that your behaviour wouldn't discourage you, and so it shouldn't discourage them. You have unequivocally told others that their views are wrong, and should be replaced with yours, without providing for any shades of grey that could accommodate a middle ground. As to whether people should just ignore any comments they wish, while that is an option that perhaps should be taken more often, fellow collaborators want to do exactly what you've asked them: read your comments without prejudging their content. This means in good faith, they strive to read as much of the comments that they can manage. The essay on bludgeoning has sections describing the negative effect this has on others. While it's true no one is obligated to satisfy you, in a spirit of collegiality, editors do their best and will invest effort in doing so. Editors have a responsibility not to take advantage of this faith placed in them. isaacl (talk) 15:55, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • To expand further: you said you don’t see such behavior is disruptive since Such behavior in no way discourages me from participating, and I don’t see why anyone would be discouraged from participating if I’m the one doing all the comment responses. You are implicitly stating others shouldn't find your behaviour to be disruptive, since you don't—you described it to be "harmless". This is asking others to substitute your judgement for theirs. isaacl (talk) 18:11, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • That's not what I'm implicitly stating. I'm saying I don't see why. That doesn't mean there is no good reason. But you've since given a good explanation; now I see why. Thanks. --В²C 19:18, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • You said it is behavior that is harmless to others and the work that we do, and therefore should not be punished, sanctioned or even cause warnings to be issued. Since you definitively said the behaviour should not even cause a warning, this seems incompatible with your agreeing that others might have good reason to consider your behaviour disruptive (and if you thought that, it would have been helpful to say it explicitly at the same time). Nonetheless, I'm glad if my comments have been useful. isaacl (talk) 19:38, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if the other proposals fail. Deb (talk) 11:16, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Deb, only if other proposals fail - something must be done.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:32, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for the reasons already given by the various supporting comments above. ╠╣uw [talk] 18:50, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant Support because policy does not clearly define appropriate sanctions to take in cases such as these. The onus appears to be on the one 'bludgeoning' to step back. Unfortunately B2C has made little effort in that regard if this ANI thread is anything to go by. I understand fully the need to defend oneself, but ultimately this leads to WP:WORD or WP:STICK when it's done point by point over and over again, which is disruptive and a thoroughly inefficient way to build an encyclopedia. It's certainly not collaborative or consensus-building. I am still troubled by what appears to be the same few editors who seem to be taking full opportunity to nail B2C here with draconian proposals (see above), but yes, I concede something must be done. I would counsel B2C to take a Wikibreak and reflect on how to behave in the best interests of the project and not simply getting his way. RandomGnome (talk) 20:04, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as last resort. I am really surprised we could not find any other solution people would agree on besides this. It feels like the system is being a let down in this case. I generally expect higher levels of conduct from others than the combative behavoir by B2C in this thread alone. sigh.Matthew J. Long -Talk- 00:16, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Levivich is probably one of the most skilled and amazing editors on this site. I do not know how they did it, but they really found an equitable solution to this problem. ―Matthew J. Long -Talk- 23:13, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per the concerns by Deb and TonyBallioni. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
bounced ANI sink -- Dlohcierekim (talk)
  • Oppose per my previous comments. This proposal feels like a last effort to get something thrown at B2C, when the kitchen sink has already bounced off. Being annoyed by a user on talk pages should not lead to sanctions against that user. It's not like the talk page content B2C provides is off topic - it's all on-topic, just voluminous. And prolixity in and of itself doesn't matter, and whether his views on certain policies are in line with community consensus or not doesn't matter, if it does not lead to article disruption. As it does not, I don't feel there is any action to take, As ever, if I can be shown one instance of disruptive editing to articles I am willing to change my view on this. As it stands, though, I'm with Ivan on this in that this is very much a sword of Damocles-style warning, and is basically a fait accompli - it's almost guaranteed that should this be passed, B2C will shortly thereafter be blocked for breaching this edict the first time he edits a talk page, it will be brought here for 'review', the usuals will immediately say 'good block', any objections will be robustly ignored, the thread will be closed after 24 hours and one minute, and another enthusiastic albeit non-standard editor will be lost to the project. Fish+Karate 09:41, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Thanks to Levivich's detailed explanation in reply to my inquiry at User_talk:Levivich#My_behavior, I think I finally get it. I've distilled what they said into a draft version of a generalized essay at User:Born2cycle/Hold the pepper. I wish it existed 15 years ago so I could have read it then, and applied it to the dozens if not hundreds of discussions I've ineffectively disrupted with peppering since. --В²C 00:05, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I would direct attention to User:Born2cycle/pledge in which this editor makes a number of promises. This pledge was made seven years ago, in January 2012, and the contents stand in stark contrast to recent statements by this editor. So very much time has been wasted by coming back to this forum over and over about the same editor's behavior. Surely at some point we should say "enough is enough". This in fact happened with the block last year, which was then unilaterally lifted. There are people on both sides of both actions, of course. But how many times must we go through this? Omnedon (talk) 02:54, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "Excessive comments" is too vague. More appropriate here might be something akin to WP:3RR but of course, it would apply to all.—Aquegg (talk) 07:30, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Heavily Wasn't the block that the user got unblocked from a big enough warning for the user. At this point I think the only option would be some sort of action to take place against the user (as in the user either gets a topic-ban or a site ban). I already am in support for a topic-ban for RM related discussions as stated in one of the sub-sections above. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 23:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Except none of those are going to pass and something needs to come of this. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • @TonyBallioni:What about my comment about a possible 6th proposal where the user in question gets their pending-changes reviewer permissions removed? The comment is right before the first proposal sub-section heading. The only reason why stated in the reason for giving it to them was "Trusted", and this was also almost a DECADE AGO! Looking at the current user actions.... do you think that the user is worthy for such permissions any more. In my opinion they are not worthy of such permissions anymore. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 02:47, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • Pending changes is by far the easiest permission to get and is for all intents and purposes not that useful for anything. We hand it out on request to any established user and most users who have been here 3-4 weeks can get it if they don’t show any red flags. If I could get rid of it from my admin bundle I would. I also don’t see how that wouldn’t be punitive: B2C has been consistently disruptive for the better part of a decade, but I don’t think he’s ever approved a bad pending edit (in fact he’s never used it.) A warning also isn’t exclusive to some other sanction, you’ll notice many of us supporting have supported other sanctions (I still support a site ban, for instance). Supporting this just basically means that if no other action gains consensus, you want it closed with some action. A warning also documents the community’s consensus that the behavior is disruptive, which is important. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:12, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It's toothless. Change "He is given a final warning that if he exhibits these behaviors in the future, he may face sanctions." to "He is given a final warning that if he exhibits these behaviors in the future, he will be sanctioned."Moriori (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Moriori, well, that’s the intent, but you can’t bind future users. Also, while I agree a warning isn’t the best option (I still support a site ban), it is also likely the only thing that can gain consensus at this time, because there is generic agreement that this needs to stop but no agreement on what to be done. I don’t see this as excluding other options, but as the minimum thing needed. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What intent? May be banned, or will be banned? We do not have to bind future users, we have only to bind one user. Let the onus be on him. Moriori (talk) 08:29, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Moriori, I understand your justification which is reasonable, but I don't get your oppose, since you appear to be in agreement with the intent but have a difference of opinion on the wording. Your proposed change is not going to drastically change anything as far as the practical implementation of this proposal is concerned.--DBigXray 08:07, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You don't get my oppose? I thought saying it's toothless was pretty clear. The practical implementation of will instead of may would be that if B2C is disruptive again they will be sanctioned. No arguments. Just action.Moriori (talk) 21:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I can support the spirit of this proposal, because it's important for every user to be respectful of the views of their colleagues, and it would clearly be a good thing if B2C could ruffle fewer feathers going forward. There were encouraging discussions between B2C and Wbm1058 on his talk page regarding improving relations. Having said that, the wording "may" is important and it is imperative that any proposal for sanctions be brought back here first, not dispensed on the whim of a single admin. It should be clear by now that there was no consensus anywhere in this thread that B2C's behaviour actually crossed any lines on this occasion, and there are wildly differing views as to his conduct. Finally, I request once more for those seasoned editors and admins who brought this complaint to please (a) assume good faith, because that seems to have been sorely lacking here, and (b) try to meet B2C halfway in coming to a satisfactory way forward. Work with your fellow editors, not against them, and accept them for who they are. — Amakuru (talk) 09:37, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • True, he does not really "cross lines" in single cases, and he doesn't actually disrupt mainspace, but there definitely is not a failure of AGF on our part. This is ten years of chronic trouble. There is no serious charge of intentional disruption. Wbm1058 has offered quiet advice by email, and the Avoid the Pepper advice seems to have made a breakthrough, and so there is hope of change beyond the previous pledges. If it fails again, the principle to go to is not AGF, but Wikipedia:Competence is required and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not therapy. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      Maybe AGF is the wrong term, then. You're not alleging that B2C is deliberately causing problems. But what I mean is that I urge you and the others be more accepting that this is simply B2C's way of contributing to the Wiki and that plenty of people (not just me) think that his contributions are useful. Alleging that he lacks competence, when he's actually one of our most knowledgeable and experienced editors in the article title space, is exactly what I'm talking about. If I'm honest, there are a few editors out there that really irritate me as well, (I won't name names) and in a darker moment I might wish that they would leave... but sometimes we have to accept that the community is a diverse one, and not everybody works in the same way. I support measures that encourage B2C to engage with the community the way it wants him to, of course, but I want it to be two-sided. Take on board the points raised in the many "oppose" votes in the proposals above, and work positively with B2C rather than always viewing what he does with suspicion. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: These are RMs where B2C has recently participated. Editors are invited to review any or all and determine if there is a problem that needs addressing. Levivich 17:38, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I just want to point out that not only has nobody pointed out anything wrong with my activity in the list of all my recent RM activity above that Levivich has compiled so helpfully, but this AN/I was started due to my terse reaction to an WP:INVOLVED admin[195][196] placing a warning on my talk page[197]. That doesn't excuse my reaction (referring to him as a "jerk")[198], but I think it helps explain it. I don't see how or why this rises to the level of even the type of warning being considered here. --В²C 19:17, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Very good points, *until* you shoot yourself in the face again with that last sentence that reasserts you claim of inability to understand nearly everyone and failure to take Livivich’s excellent advice in his talk page. You offer a half acknowledgment and non apology, ok, but then wrap up with “but I am completely innocent”. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's not what I said. I am not completely innocent. In particular, I recognize my taste for peppering discussions and I'm learning to back off. I've acknowledged I should not have called Tony a "jerk". I'm simply saying that, and my recent RM activity, does not rise to the level of warranting a warning of the kind proposed here. Evidence has not been presented showing it is. So why are we here? --В²C 23:14, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a bare minimum, but if this is the only option to pass, I'm not hopeful anything will change. Jonathunder (talk) 00:42, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 6 (RM Area/Discussions that B2C wants to participate in require Wikipedia:Editor_assistance for a temp time)

(Non-Admin Proposal):This would probably be the lowest level possible sanction, probably even lower than a warning. Basically this sanction would span a specified amount of time, by the sanction enactor. In this sanction, for every RM Area/Discussion that B2C wants to start or take part in during the sanction timespan, B2C will have to use Wikipedia:Editor_assistance. The good thing about this is that if B2C abides by this sanction, and ends up doing the same issue again, it would not be his fault. HOWEVER, if he does not abide by the sanction, or does not follow the advice given at "WP:EA", then B2C would be at fault. B2C will NOT need to use "WP:EA" in edits that do not relate to RM Discussions. The reason why this sanction would fit in this situation is because of points 2 and 4, and how the EA would help B2C (as stated what EA's do on point 3), over at [[199]]. This would also make it clear if B2C is willing to reform in how they take part in RM Discussions, as in point 4 the EA would be able to see how is B2C doing. Basically if B2C does not go by the advice given by the EA, it would show that B2C maybe is not willing to reform, and the next round of ANI or AN discussions more stricter sanctions could be proposed (like the ones that failed to get consensus above).

Side note to proposal: Although B2C is a experienced user … however in the context of this whole entire discussion it is obvious that B2C is not as experienced when it comes to them taking part in RM Area/Discussions. If this was never the case, then this discussion would probably not be here at ANI. I am not saying that B2C is bad user, B2C is a very good user. However it only seems to be in my own opinion that they need help when it comes to starting or taking part in RM area/discussions, and I think that "WP:EA" would probably be the right venue to get this help that he needs. However, I could be wrong and maybe there are no EA volunteers that are experts when it comes to RM Area/Discussions, however I could be wrong in that assumption as I never checked yet if there are. There might be volunteers that know about RM Area/Discussions, and I just do not know about it. Aceing_Winter_Snows_Harsh_Cold (talk) 22:54, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • There are many reasons other than "B2C is not as experienced when it comes to them taking part in RM Area/Discussions" that could explain why this discussion is here. There is a list just above of all the RM discussions I've been involved in recently, over the last few weeks. Is there a problem with my behavior, or any evidence of my needing assistance, in any of them? What exactly is the purpose here? --В²C 23:44, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Murder of Rachael Runyan

Murder of Rachael Runyan‎ probably needs a careful eye. Considering Utah's original version of the Amber alert was named after Rachael, her article deserves to be put on many Administrators' watchlists just as a precautionary measure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Benjamin Austin (talkcontribs)

  • Why? It is helpful if you provide a justification if you are asking for people to spend time monitoring it. It's a new article on an old event and I don't see anything unusual in the history. Am I missing something? Dennis Brown - 16:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Paul Benjamin Austin This is the admin Incident noticeboard for urgent, chronic, and intractable problems. Did you mean to post this at the regular admin noticeboard? What prompted your request? Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 03:27, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]