위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive498
Wikipedia:원본 조사 추가, 전쟁 편집, 인신공격
나는 누군가가 애논 편집자 4.182.234.226 (토크 · 기여)와 한 마디 할 수 있을지 궁금하다.그는 반복적으로 독창적인 연구를 추가했고 (여기, 여기, 여기) 요약 편집과 자신의 토크 페이지에서 모두 정책이 설명되고 있음에도 불구하고 (여기, 여기, 여기) '아임 더 월러스(I Am the Walrus)'에 연구를 합성했다고 믿는다.그러면서 워드 편집도 했다.이 편집 요약에서도 인신공격성 발언을 했다.같은 기사에 POV도 추가하고 있다.감사합니다.Ward3001 (대화) 06:15, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
오, 가엾은 아기.아빠와 엄마 위키피디아가 다친 부부를 낫게 만들었니?
철 좀 들어, 개자식아인생을 즐기세요 휠체어에서 내려오세요
여러분, 보세요, 교회 아가씨랍니다!!
오, 우리가 아저씨, 아저씨, 제발, 아저씨, 아저씨... 우리가 당신 밭을 다쳐서 죄송합니다, 아저씨.
여기 이 개자식이 검열하려고 하는 아주 위험하고 끔찍하고 끔찍한 두 개의 문장이 있다. (그가 즈다노프 밑에서 얼마나 재미있었을지...) (잘봐라, 무지한 사람아)
"놀라운 우연의 일치로 리어 4.6은 셰익스피어 전 작품에서 유일하게 영어 동음이의어인 '비틀(Beatle)'이 등장하는 장면이다.즉, 비틀즈가 무작위로 "실시간"에 "found art"를 추가했는데, 셰익스피어의 "beadle"과 "beetle"이라는 단어가 모두 등장하는 유일한 장면이었다.
바로 그거야!!그래, 그게 다야. 이 울보 같은 얼간이 위키나찌가 자신을 예방하기 위해 내놓은 전부야.그리고 넌 물어봐야 해, 이 사람 대체 뭐가 문제야?내 말은, 진짜로, 왜 저러지?어디로 모든 게 잘못됐지?어떻게 그가 그렇게 나쁜 놈으로 끝나서 노래에 대한 내 두 개의 악의 없는 문장을 검열하려고 노력했을까?
제발, 위키피디아 -- 이 사람 같은 놈들은 무시해.이 남자는 두 명의 SENETNCES가 전혀 상관없는 주제에 게재되는 것을 막으려고 노력했다.그는 스탈린에게 적합해. 미국에는 적합하지 않아. 그만해.안녕, 3001 병동.우리의 하루는 끝났다.우리는 네가 지겨워.넌 아무것도 기여하지 않아.
—서명되지 않은 의견을 4.182.237.70 (대화) 11:30, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)까지 추가한 준비
- 편집자의 날은 정말로 31시간 동안 끝난다.첫 번째 IP 주소는 차단하지 않았지만 동일한 목적으로 사용되면 차단(IMHO) 더그웰러(토크) 12:51, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
몇 가지 사항을 더 추가하겠다.
- 우선 4.182.234.226(토크 · 기여)과 4.182.237.70(토크 · 기여)이 동일인이라고 생각한다.그들은 유사한 IP, 같은 도시, 그리고 동일한 ISP로 편집한다.둘 다 내가 월러스라는 단 한 구절만 편집했다.그리고 이제 4.182.237.70(토크 · 기여)은 이 편집 요약에서 그의 두 번째 인신공격(첫 번째 공격은 위에서 연계되어 있다)을
- 둘째로, 이/이 편집자들은 통계 자료를 확인하기 위해 셰익스피어의 일치점을 사용하고 있는데, 그는 그 다음 새로운 결론에 도달하기 위해 사용한다: "놀라운 우연의 일치로, 리어 4.6.는 모든 셰익스피어 (천 개가 넘는 것 중)에서 영어 동음이의 "Beatle"을 모두 특징으로 하는 유일한 장면이다." 그것은 분명히 독창적인 연구인 것 같다; 그 인용문은 셰익스피어와 나는 월러스 사이의 어떤 우연을 논하는 출처가 아니다; 그것은 단지 검색 엔진의 통계적 결과일 뿐이다.이는 회상과 인신공격 이외의 대응 없이 애논 편집자에게 지적되어 왔다.나는 또한 "놀라운 우연의 일치"라는 미필적 표현도 독창적인 연구라고 생각한다.나는 이것이 명확해지는 데 도움이 되기를 바란다.고마워요.Ward3001 (토크) 16:23, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 우리는 정말로 새로운 블록 이유가 필요하다: "관리자들로 가득 찬 페이지에 인신공격은 모든 Caps에 있다.진단: 단서 부족, 치명적일 수 있음.고속 전이 볼펜 요법을 권해."아니면 당신들 중 셰익스피어 사람들을 위해서: "Bangeth, Bangeth, Maxwell's silver banhammer".GJC 20:40, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 그의 뒤를 따라, 동료들, 그를 블록으로 데려와라. (Measure for Measure, act 4장 3.) – 무지개빛 20:15, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
######alk.com
그냥 조심해 - 오늘 아침 IP가 ######alk.com으로 스팸 링크를 차단당했어 - 처음에는 밀 스팸을 그냥 실행하는 줄 알았는데, 실제로는 닐라 브라우저 히잡 사이트라고 생각해 - 만약 당신이 그것을 본다면 URL을 확인하지 말라고 경고해줘. --카메론 스콧 (토크) 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 하나 이상 - ####ot 네트.아직 블랙리스트에 올라있나, 이걸 감독관에게 연락해야 할까?-제스케 쿠리아노(v^_^v) 11:33, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 둘 다 블랙리스트에 올랐어블랙 카이트 12:38, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 당신은 당신의 IP가 그들의 금지 목록에 추가된 경우에만 WETA를 얻을 수 있다.둘째로, 누군가가 분명히 그들의 웹사이트의 가시성을 촉진하려고 하는 경우, 우리의 가장 눈에 잘 띄는 부분인 ANI. :P --slakr\ talk / 12:40, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)에 게시하지 않는 것이 도움이 된다.
- 내가 링크를 제거했어. 이 올디드는 네가 정말로 그것이 무엇인지 알고 싶다면 가지고 있어.숨막힘 (대화) 2008년 12월 6일 12시 46분 (12:46, 6)
- 1개 이상의 IP가 차단된 이유는?-제스케 쿠리아노(v^_^v) 20:19, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 내 추측으로는 그것은 식물성 물질과 관련이 있을 것이다.GJC 20:30, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 가치 있는 건 라스트 meas 기사로 쓰였었죠.피해야 할 다른 URL을 나열했는지는 기억나지 않지만, 그렇다면 기사를 삭제하면 사이트 트래픽이 증가한 드문 경우가 될 수 있다.옛날 옛적에 모두가 더 잘 알고 있었다.직장이나 다른 비합리적인 환경에서 편집하는 경우, 가장 좋은 방법은 기본적으로 javascript를 비활성화한 다음 신뢰할 수 있는 사이트에 대해 사례별로 다시 설정하는 것일 수 있다(그리고 그것 없이 통과할 수 없는 경우에만).— CharlotteWebb 20:55, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
- 내 추측으로는 그것은 식물성 물질과 관련이 있을 것이다.GJC 20:30, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 1개 이상의 IP가 차단된 이유는?-제스케 쿠리아노(v^_^v) 20:19, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 아래 섹션도 참조하십시오. --Rschen7754 (T C) 20:33, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
상업서적
이 사람의 편집은 대부분 수십 개의 사이트에 있는 상업 서적과 연결된다.그들의 로그를 보십시오.그들은 누군가에게 24시간 동안 두 번 차단당했지만, 스팸을 보내면서 다시 돌아왔다.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/68.156.159.10 Dream Focus (대화) 15:49, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 이미 13시 45분에 차단된 상태. --스매쉬빌talk 17시 01, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- "24시간이라는 놀라운 시간" 그건 블록이 아니라 그냥 휴식을 취하고 내일 다시 시작하라고 말하는 거야.그들은 스팸에만 존재한다.그들은 전에 경고를 받았지만, 24시간 블록이 사라진 후에 다시 경고를 받았다.이전에 spam에 의해 연결된 장소의 목록을 가지고 있는가? 그러면 봇이 위키백과를 검색하고, 특히 등록되지 않은 사용자에 의해 해당 사이트에 대한 많은 새로운 링크가 추가되었는지 여부를 판단할 수 있는데, 이것은 조사할 가치가 있는 가치가 있는가?내 생각에 그것은 유용한 기능이 될 것 같아.또는 만약 누군가가 십여 개의 다른 장소에 있는 같은 사이트에 접속했다면, 그들은 깃발을 올려 보내야 하고, 그들이 스팸메일을 하고 있는지, 또는 그들이 너무 도움이 되는 책을 발견했는지 그들이 십여 개의 다른 기사에 유용한 정보를 가지고 있는지 알아내야 한다.Dream Focus (토크) 17:42, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
쿠에비/한제국의 우제사
쿠에비(토크 · 기여)는 한(漢)의 우(武)황제(중국명/한국명/중국명/한국명)로부터 중국어 번역을 없애고 한글로 대체하여 더 이상 논의하기를 거부하고 있다.(중국어를 삭제하는 대신 한국어를 추가해 줄 것을 요청했으나 거절했다.)나는 다른 누군가에게 이것을 검토하고, 필요하다면 기사를 보호하고, 필요한 정도까지 쿠에비를 짧은 기간 동안 차단해 줄 것을 요청하는 것이다. (그/그녀는 또한 상당히 자주 미개하고, 또한 많은 다른 기사들에 대한 전쟁/전쟁을 편집하기도 한다.)내가 이런 일을 하는 것이 적절하지 않을 수도 있다고 생각하여 직접 하는 것이 아니다. --Nlu (대화) 17:12, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
사용자:I B 라이트
I B 라이트(토크 · 기여)는 논쟁과 다른 사용자를 모욕한 이력이 있다.이것이 지적되었고 이것이 인신공격과 괴롭힘으로 확대되자 인신공격에 대한 경고가 내려졌다.I B 라이트는 오늘 같은 행동을 반복했고, 나는 적절한 설명으로 그를 괴롭힘/인신공격으로 3시간 동안 막았다.[5] 이 블록에 대한 검토를 환영한다....데이브 수자, 토크 19:21, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
연합언론
여기에서 DryOut(토크) 19:50, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)을 참조하십시오.
공용 IP를 사용하는 차단된 편집기의 개인 공격
일시적으로 차단된 편집자 겸 양말 인형술사 키크부이(여기의 삭 리포트)는 이번 AfD 토론에서 공용 IP 주소 104.174.9.7을 사용하여 짐잘라빔과 나 자신에 대한 인신공격(특히 사용자와 내가 그의 정보에 의해 "위협을 받고" 그를 학대하고 있다고 말한다)을 하고 있다.AIV에서 이 내용을 공개 IP라 신고하고 싶지는 않았는데, 학교 블록 같은 게 정리가 될 수 있을까?—정치인 contribs/ 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 참고: 편집자는 또 다른 공용 IP인 140.174.9.14를 사용하기 시작했다.—Politizer contribs/ 20:31, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
- 실제로 사용자는 여기서 블록을 회피하기 위해 개방된 IP를 사용하는 것을 인정했다.또한 Sockpuppet 케이스를 참조하십시오.사용자 역시 나의 행정력을 남용했다고 잘못 비난하고 있지만, 그가 나를 모욕하기 시작하자 나는 이 사건에 내 특권을 전혀 사용하지 않기로 했다. --ZimZalaBim 21:10, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
신경 쓰지 마...사용자가 이미 다른 IP로 이동했음.그가 얼마나 자주 장소를 바꾸는지 볼 때, 아마도 블록을 추구하는 데 장점이 없을 것이다. 대신에, 나는 계속해서 눈을 뜨고 필요할 때 그를 되돌릴 것이다.—정치인 contribs/ 22:03, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 초창기 킥부이 블록을 조정하여 삭스 인형술사로서 무한정 막았다.만약 당신이 새로운 계정이나 확실히 Kikbguy인 IP를 계속 보게 된다면, 내 토크 페이지로 돌아와 도움을 받을 수 있다.위에서 자세히 설명한 Sock Puppet 스레드 아래에 있는 현재 목록의 블록을 고려하려면 내 페이지로 오십시오.--VS 00:03, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
의심스러운 "가짜 및 비방" 사용자 페이지
위키백과 참조:삭제/사용자:Kenneth Sikes와 나의 토크 페이지.대신 속도를 높여야 할까?— CharlotteWebb 21:01, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 이미 속도가 빨라졌다.아마 그럴 것이다.버킷소프 21:29, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
여보세요
안녕, 난 딘 웨스트야.Mattsayshola[6]라는 이름을 가진 사용자가 샌드박스를 정말 무례한 말을 하게 하고 그 안에서 인신공격을 한다.최대한 빨리 도와줘.여기 몇 가지 예가 있다:[7]
--Dean West (토크) 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)Dean West
사용자:Raven in Orbit 블록
이 논의에 대한 후속 조치.기본적으로, 그가 "LOL, Yeah!"로 다른 사람들을 공격한 후. 너네 POV 푸서들이 여기서 정말 좋은 시간을 보내고 있구나! ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 멋지다! 위키피디아를 좋아하시다니 기쁘구나! 헤헤, ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ이에 그는 사용자 페이지에 두 번 더 추가했다.사용자를 차단한 경우:무한궤도에 있는 까마귀.다시는 그러지 말라고 요구하지 않고서는 아무도 그를 돌려보내지 않기를 바란다. -- 리키81682 (대화) 22:36, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
잠시 후에 차단을 풀고 주제만 들어도 그를 제한하는 방법이 없을까?그만이 유사한 문제로 스웨덴 위키에서 차단된 적이 있지만, 이것들은 그가 평소에 편집하는 기사가 아니다.그는 상당히 고급스런 다양한 기사[9]를 11,000개 이상 편집했으며, 최근 몇 달까지는 이 페이도 악성코드를 습관화하지 않는다.스티키 파킨 04:13, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 오, 기꺼이 그러겠소.나는 단지 그가 그것을 하지 말아야 한다는 것을 그가 먼저 인정해주길 바랄 뿐이다.무기한이지 영구적이지 않다.지금 당장 사과하고 다시는 안 하겠다고 하면 막아야 한다.전적으로.그러나 그가 그것이 WP로 행해졌다고 인정했을 때:포인트 위반과 함께 "개인적으로 당신이 아닌 당신이 기부하는 유형을 놀리고 있었다"는 식의 플레이를 하기 시작했는데, 나는 즐겁지 않았다.만약 그가 단지 미개하지만 아마 그렇게 논란이 되지 않는 무언가를 가지고 있다면, 나도 똑같이 느낄 것이라고 생각한다.만약 다른 누군가가 그의 차단을 해제하고 싶다면, 계속 진행하되 그가 다른 사람들을 모욕하는 것은 적절하지 않다는 것을 확실히 이해하도록 하라.만약 주제를 제한하고 싶다면, 좋아, 하지만 그가 그것에 동의하는지 확인하라. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 04:39, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
원본 텍스트 제거. 아동 성애
Child sexuality에서 그들은 http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/index.htm에서 소싱된 자료를 계속 삭제하는 두 명의 편집자다.이것은 Humboldt-Universityt zu 베를린에서 온 것이다. http://www.hu-berlin.de/.박사학위와 상으로 가득 차 있다.기본적으로 문제는 아이티 사람들이라는 겁니다. 섹스에 대해 아주 자유분방한 아이티 사람들이요. 거기다가 아이들이 섹스에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지에 대해서도요.이들은 '자진출처 제거' '확증되지 않은 자진출처 제거' '자진출처 제거'라는 궁색한 변명을 늘어놓는다.아마존닷컴은 문을 열었고, 그 위에 있는 모든 케이스 구매 공간"이라고 말했다.아주 적은 발굴이 믿을만한 출처라는 것을 증명한다.그것은 신중함과 편협함의 명백한 경우--217.112.178.113 (대화) 22:54, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 알고 보니 구차한 변명은 그다지 구차한 것이 아니었다.서버의 입력 페이지[10]에는 학생 조직과 정치 조직을 포함한 훔볼트 대학의 모든 기관이 서버의 공간을 구입할 수 있다고 명시되어 있다.아카이브의 메인 페이지는 교수가 직접 출판한 것으로 파악되는 것 같다.어윈 J. 해벌리토크 페이지에 자신의 주장을 밝히십시오.문제의 디렉토리가 "Magnus-Hirschfeld-Zentrum, Archiv für Sexualwissenschaft"에 의해 임대된 웹 공간으로 식별되는 이 페이지를 가리키면 좋을 것이다.당신의 경우는 해버렐과 마그누스-히르슈펠트-젠트럼의 과학적 명성에 의존하는 것 같다.이것은 콘텐츠 분쟁이다. --Hans Adler (대화) 23:19, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- PS: 어쨌든 그 웹사이트는 잘못된 것일 수도 있어.그 자료는 책에서 나온 것이다: 얀센, D.F., 성적으로 성장하는 것. 제1권. 월드 레퍼런스 아틀라스.출판사(다시 태어난 책)는 매우 애매한 것 같다.아마도 그것은 스스로 출판된 것이 아닐까?어떤 경우든 나는 소금 몇 방울이 든 그런 오래된 민족학 보고서만 가져갈 것이다. --Hans Adler (토크) 23:32, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 확인 감사 - 보고서 계속:
동적 IP에 의한 3RR 위반
위 리포트와 관련하여 IP의 WP:3RR 위반을 되돌릴 수 있도록 관리자 도움을 요청한다.지금까지 그를 역전시킨 두 편집자는 편집 전쟁으로 비치고 싶지 않다.
- 버전이 [15]로 되돌아갔다. - 8월에 다른 확립된 편집자가 신뢰할 수 없는 출처와 관련 내용을 올바르게 삭제했다.
IP는 분명히 일종의 중립적이지 않은 어젠다를 가지고 있고 협력에는 관심이 없다.IP는 동적이기 때문에 블록으로 3RR 위반을 막을 수 없다.
나는 Child sexuality 페이지를 당분간 반보호하고, IP의 최신 편집이 권한 없는 편집자에 의해 되돌릴 것을 요청한다(누군가가 이미 되돌린 경우는 제외).
IP가 계정을 등록하려고 한다면, 우리는 균등한 근거에서 출처의 신뢰성에 대해 토론할 수 있다.그러나 동적 IP가 편집 전쟁에 관여하고 있기 때문에 관리자 도움 없이는 우리가 할 수 있는 일이 없다.
나는 이 페이지를 좀 더 자세하게 막고 싶지는 않지만, 만약 관심이 있는 사람이 있다면, 출처가 스스로 출판되고, 눈에 띄지 않으며, 신뢰할 수 없다는 것을 보여주는 요청에 따라 추가 정보를 제공할 수 있다.
도와줘서 고마워. --Jack-A-Ro (대화) 02:18, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
사용자:협의체/83.254.21.226
구성(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)은 클래더스틱스(Cladistics)를 주제로 출판한 저자(claiming)이다.그는 독창적인 연구와 관련된 문제들을 상기시켰고 그의 연구가 2차적인 출처에서는 논의되지 않았지만, 그는 그것이 그를 차단할 때까지 계속 편집 전쟁을 계속했다.83.254.21.226(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)으로 돌아왔다.
그는 요즘에 몇 차례 인신공격한 것 말고는 대체로 온순했다.그러나 그는 최근 자신의 토크 페이지 논평을 통해 일부 편집자들은 "무력에 의해 패배해야 한다"고 말하며 전쟁 편집에 대한 자신의 의도를 인정했다.이 전투에서..「」 [16] 「이동식 인터넷 접속」의 IP로 기사를 편집하려는 의향도 표명했다.[17]
그 결과, 나는 앞으로 며칠 안에 클래지컬틱스 및 관련 과목에 대한 활발한 활동을 기대하고 있다.나는 그 기사에 대한 선제적 보호가 제대로 되어 있는지 논쟁 중이다.(물론 나는 그것을 반응적으로 보호할 거리낌이 없다.) —C.프레드 (토크) 02:18, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그 IP는 마치 정적인 것처럼 보인다. 나는 그것을 옹호하고 싶지만, 그렇게 하기 전에 정적인지 아닌지에 대해 다시 한 번 의견을 듣고 싶다.피복재학 관련 주제만 편집한다.블루보이96 02:36, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
오렌지점프슈트
오렌지점프슈트(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그), 최근 차단되어 다시 건방진 편집, 비활용, 편집 전쟁 등에 관여한다.
최근 편집한 내용을 빨리 검토하면 분명하겠지만 요약을 원하신다면...나와 다른 사람들로부터 이런 행동에 대해 여러 번 경고를 받은 후, 헨리 하이드로부터 부정적이라고 생각하는 자료를 제거하기 위해 즉시 전쟁을 편집하기 위해 그는 버락 오바마 기사에 대한 보상이 너무 칭찬으로 가득 차 있다고 주장한다.토크 페이지의 경고에 대해 "THUG" 등의 비난과 함께 나 자신의 토크 페이지[20] 및 그의 경고에 응답한다.그가 그의 토크 페이지를 조작하여 경고를 제거하거나, 헤딩을 다시 만들어 나를 고발하는 등의 작업을 해왔기 때문에, 그의 토크 페이지를 검토하는데 주의하십시오.[21][22][23][24][25][26] 원칙적으로 그는 자신의 토크 페이지에서 원하는 것을 할 수 있어 그것이 문제 행동 자체가 아니며, 단지 그가 가능한 블록을 예고하고 있다는 것을 보여줄 뿐이며, 그는 계속하겠다고 맹세했고, 이것을 지배하려는 나와 다른 사람들의 모든 시도는 실패했다.만약 내가 헨리 하이드 기사를 다시 고친다면 그는 다시 돌아올 것이고, 아니면 다른 곳에서 그의 요지부동한 혼란을 계속할 것이다.또한 그는 새로운 WP이다.SPA는 지난 8월 버락 오바마/사라 페일린 기사와 모든 면에서 WP를 교란하기 위해 창설됐다.SOCK. Wikidemon (대화) 03:09, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 이것은 폭력의 예인데, 위키데몬이 나와 동의하지 않기 때문에 그는 이 [27] 슬프게도 여기서 정치적 바이오스의 평등에 대한 논쟁에서 이길 수 없어 대신 나를 위협하고 괴롭힌다.
- 이 사람은 파워트립 중이니 그만둬야 한다.오렌지점프수트 (토크) 03:29, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 분명히, 내 경고는 상황을 돕지 않아. 그러니 우리가 처리할 때까지 더 이상 발포하지 않을 거야...편집 전쟁을 일으키지 않기 위해. 편집된 내용을 되돌리는 것도 피하고 있다. (우리가 편집이 끝나면 내가 정리하겠다.)위키데몬 (대화) 03:36, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 당신의 "경고"는 단지 대담한 얼굴 위협, 폭언, 그리고 괴롭힘일 뿐이라는 것이 명백하다.여러분이 그들을 부르는 모든 것은, 여러분이 토론할 만큼 충분히 강하지 않을 때, 여러분의 의견이 다른 사람들을 진정시켜 여러분이 친절하게 목록화시킨, 애드호미움, 위협으로 되돌아가게 하는 것이다.오렌지점프수트 (토크) 03:42, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 분명히, 내 경고는 상황을 돕지 않아. 그러니 우리가 처리할 때까지 더 이상 발포하지 않을 거야...편집 전쟁을 일으키지 않기 위해. 편집된 내용을 되돌리는 것도 피하고 있다. (우리가 편집이 끝나면 내가 정리하겠다.)위키데몬 (대화) 03:36, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 이것은 확실히 골치 아픈 일이다.내 생각에 오렌지점프 수트는 요점을 분명히 만드는 것처럼 보이는 이런 종류의 편집은 피해야 할 필요가 있다.그는 편집 요약에서 직접 그렇게 하겠다고 주장하고 있다. --Jayron32.talk.contracts 03:26, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 나는 모든 정치적 전기를 동등하게 취급하는 것은 위키피디아 개념이 아니라고 생각한다.일부 전기만 스타일, 내용, 톤 면에서 다르게 취급되어야 하는가?아니면 이 개념에 반대하십니까? 그리고 좌파 패거리들이 우익 패거리들과 전쟁을 벌여야 하는 전쟁터가 되어야 하며, 그 숫자를 가지고 있는 패거리들, 그들의 편에서 관리자들이 승리해야 하는가?MORAND가 맞나?이기는 건 패거리야?아니면, 당신이 나를 좋아하거나 싫어하거나, 바이오스의 주제를 좋아하거나 싫어해서가 아니라, 모두 정치적 바이오스의 공정성을 보호해야 하는가?이것이 바로 내가 서 있는 문제인데 위키데몬과 같은 다른 사람들은 그것이 정치적 공격의 장소가 되기를 원하고 있고 이 의제를 벗어난 사람들은 괴롭힘을 당하고 금지될 것이다.오렌지점프수트 (토크) 03:38, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 편집질문에 대한 의견 불일치에 대해 기민하게 반응한 사람은 부적절한 언어에 대한 경고를 "위협"으로 반복적으로 묘사하는 등의 반응을 보였다.그의 요약과 대화 페이지에 게재된 글들은 신의에 대한 가정 부족과 그의 유일한 관심사로 보이는 정치적 주제에 대한 중립적인 관점을 유지하지 못한 것을 보여준다. --오렌지 마이크 토크 03:41, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
나는 그를 일주일 동안 막았다.내가 어디서도 언급하지 않은 것은 OJS가 불과 몇 시간 전에 다른 블록에서 막 출시되어 이 편집을 다시 시작했다는 것이다.나는 그가 그렇게 즉시 시작했다는 사실이 더 긴 블록을 보증한다고 생각했다. --Smashvilletalk 04:54, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 좋은 블럭이야.나는 그것을 전적으로 지지한다.그는 단지 싸움을 선택하려고 할 뿐이다...--Jayron32.talk.contracts 06:15, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
긴장하고 좀 건방진 것 같아그러나 그의 요점은 잘 파악되었다.헨리 하이드 페이지에서 그는 NPOV의 적어도 한 가지 노골적인 예를 발견했다.오바마 기사는 선거 우편배달부다.여기 위키에 대한 공화당과 민주당의 대우가 다른 것은 민주당에 대한 편향적인 빅타임을 보여준다.공화당은 스캔들을 증폭시키고 민주당은 이상주의를 증폭시킨다.나는 누군가가 그를 차단만 할 것이 아니라 위키 예의범절 등에서 그를 지도해야 한다고 생각한다.우리는 위키에 보수당이 한 두 명 더 필요할 수 있다.툰드라부기 (대화) 03:59, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 여기 위키에 대한 공화당과 민주당의 대우가 다른 것은 민주당에 대한 편향적인 빅타임을 보여준다.응.당신은 음악원에 관심이 있을 겁니다.그들은 NPOV에 대해 신경쓰지 않는다.리틀 레드 라이딩 후드톡 05:18, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 아니, 우리는 "위키에 보수주의자 한두 명 더"가 필요하지 않다. 우리에게 필요한 것은 편집하면서 공정하게 할 수 있는 능력을 가진 정직한 편집자들이다."그쪽이 내쪽보다 더 나은 대접을 받는다"는 외침은 공허하고 거짓으로 들린다.Tarc (토크) 13:06, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그를 조롱하고 싶어하는 오른쪽 사람들 외에는 그를 메시아라고 부르는 사람이 없다.어쩌면 국민들은 합법적으로 승리한 대통령을 얻는 것에 흥분하고 있을지도 모른다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 16:50, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 물론 아니지.대부분의 자유주의자들은 종교, 특히 기독교를 조롱한다.아마도 그렇기 때문에 그들은 기독교인이 그의 메시아를 위해 비축해 둘지도 모르는 같은 무비판적인 열정과 지지를 가지고 이 새로운 합법적인 대통령 당선자에게 접근하고 있다는 것을 보기 어렵다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.나는 미국이 대통령을 위해 "흑인" 남자에게 투표할 만큼 성숙했다는 사실을 축하한다. 그러나 나는 이 특별하고 경험이 없고 특이하게 알려지지 않은 버락 오바마를 비난하지 않는다.하지만 우리 모두에게, 나는 확실히 좋은 일이 있기를 바란다.툰드라부기 (대화) 04:09, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그를 조롱하고 싶어하는 오른쪽 사람들 외에는 그를 메시아라고 부르는 사람이 없다.어쩌면 국민들은 합법적으로 승리한 대통령을 얻는 것에 흥분하고 있을지도 모른다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 16:50, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
그럼 이게 해결된 겁니까?아주 좋아.아마도 누군가가 그 효과에 메모를 추가할 수 있을 것이다. // 루스 04:16, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
바다냐니
사용자 바다냐니(Talk)는 위키백과의 에티켓 원리에 대해 다른 사용자와의 상호작용을 일관되게 무시하는 모습을 보여 왔다.최근의 사건은 사용자 제레미에 대한 위키스토킹 지침과 사용자 공간 괴롭힘 지침의 위반을 포함한다.내가 Badagnani와 이전에 상호작용을 했듯이, 내가 한 것 이상의 적절한 경고를 시행하는 것은 이해충돌을 일으킬 것이다.나는 그에게 그 논평들을 삭제하라고 요청했지만 그는 거절했다.
편집의 예는 다음과 같다.
- WikiProject Food and Drink에 추가된 편집 및 다른 문서에 추가된 개인 정보 예
- 방글라데시 요리 기사에 추가된 개인정보의 예
- 캄보디아 요리 기사에 추가된 개인정보의 예
- 조지아(국가) 요리에 추가된 개인 정보
- 버마 요리에 추가된 개인정보의 예
그 문제에 대해 좀 도와주면 고맙겠다.--체프 태너 (대화) 19:32, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 그 어느 것에서도 개인정보, 스토킹, 괴롭힘, 불친절함이 보이지 않는다.편집 업무에 대한 불만 사항은 개인 정보를 구성하지 않는다.만약 당신이 다른 것을 언급하고 있다면, 분명히 말해줘.Loie496 (대화) 2008년 12월 7일 19:45 (UTC)
- 나는 루이에496의 의견에 동의한다.나는 전에 바다냐니와 대화한 적이 있고 그가 무례할 수 있다는 것을 알지만, 나는 위의 편집에서 어떠한 정책 위반도 보지 않는다.—정치인 contribs/ 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
위의 사용자도 내가 인식하는 AFD의 붕괴에 관여하고 있다고 덧붙이겠다. ([29], [30] 참조) "우리 프로젝트의 붕괴"에 대해 사용자들에게 반복적으로 요구함으로써 ([31], [32], [33], [34] 참조)—MuZemike가 추가한 서명되지 않은 의견 작성(대화 • 기여) 00:01, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
나는 다음과 같이 말하고 싶다.
바다냐와 나는 과거가 있다.우리는 내가 WP에서 일하는 동안 그가 한 일들 또는 내가 한 몇 가지 제안, 변화, 움직임들에 대해 여러 차례 숙고해 왔다.그가 그 프로젝트에 상당한 기여를 했지만, 그들 중 많은 사람들은 매우 생산적이고 높은 수준의 일을 하고 있지만, 너무 많은 시간 동안 그는 그의 열정을 그의 더 나은 판단을 뒤집도록 내버려두었다.이러한 경우, 나는 그가 이러한 경우에서 뒤로 물러나는 독특한 일련의 행동들을 가지고 있다는 것을 알게 되었다.
- 그가 요약본이나 게시물에서 사용하는 언어는 종종 그 성격상 오도하는 경우가 많은데, 그는 자신을 욕설의 희생자로 묘사하거나 악덕 기고자들의 일탈 행위를 바로잡으려 한다.그는 다른 기고자들이 그의 변화를 수정하거나 단순히 그가 취해진 기사를 편집하고 있을 때 이러한 게시물에서 자유롭게 공백이나 합의와 같은 단어들을 사용한다.그가 기사의 본문에 수많은 인라인 코멘트를 실었던 한식 기사가 대표적인 예다.나를 포함한 몇몇 편집자들은 이 논평을 삭제하고 그에게 복원하지 말라고 경고했다.그 결과는 편집 전쟁으로 72시간이나 걸린 것이었다.
- 그는 종종 변화에 손해를 입힐 정도로, 기사와 템플릿의 현상 유지에 매우 적극적이다.그는 종종 편집전 정도로 자신에 대한 분명한 의견 일치가 있을 때에도 자신의 관점을 추구할 것이다.
- Badagnani는 몇몇 경우에 그가 동의하지 않는 사람들을 위키 스토킹하는 것에 의존했다.나는 개인적으로 이번 7월에 허브스와 관련된 기사와 템플릿에 관한 주제로 그런 사람들 중 한 명이었다.이 경우 그는 이틀 동안 {{Herbs&향신료}} 템플릿에 대한 나의 작품을 공격했고, 템플릿 형식에 대한 나의 변화, 기사 포함 및 제외를 공격했으며, 동의하지 않을 경우 RfC 요청을 무시했다.이 논쟁은 다소 격화되었고 나는 나 역시 거친 언어를 사용하고, 성급한 결정을 내리고, 그에 대한 나의 좌절감을 너무 공공연한 태도로 분출하면서, 최상의 행동을 하고 있지 않았다는 것을 인정한다.
- 그는 수동적인 공격적인 행동을 해서 종종 그를 상대하는 사람들을 화나게 한다.
나는 그에게서 정말 대단한 업적을 보았고, 그 공헌들을 칭찬하기도 했다.이런 사건들은 정말 사람들을 화나게 한다.그는 6개의 토크 페이지에 나의 캔버스 제작에 대한 비난 글을 올려 많은 구멍과 반쪽 진실을 담고 있는 가짜 논쟁을 시작했다.이런 문제들이 자신에게 지적되자 그는 주장을 바꾸거나, 아니면 모두 함께 무시했다.소위 캔버스 제작이라고 불리는 것은 토크에서 진행중인 토론에 대해 비슷한 기사에 대해 언급했던 다른 사람들에게 다음과 같이 통보하는 것이었습니다.제안된 조치에 대한 캄보디아의 요리 및 WP에 토론 게시:FOOD 프로젝트 페이지.그 통지는 중립적이었고 나는 이 기사에 대해 논평하지 않은 모든 개인에게 그들이 가지고 있는 직책에 상관없이 게시했다.문제는 이들 논의에서 바다냐니만이 유일하게 반대의 목소리를 냈다는 점이다.
크리스는 지긋지긋해. 난 지긋지긋해. 그리고 그의 공격의 수혜자가 된 수십 명의 다른 기여자들도 지긋지긋지긋해.나는 내가 완벽하지 않고 몇몇 실수를 저질렀다는 것을 안다. 그들 중 몇몇은 바보들, 그가 나를 비난한 것들을 내가 어떻게 한번도 하지 않았는지.
나는 이것이 분출구라는 것을 인정할 것이고 그와 내가 과거에 가졌던 부정적인 상호작용 때문에 오히려 편향되어 있다는 것을 인정하겠다.그의 행동을 맥락에서 보고, 그의 행동이 그가 한 좋은 일을 어떻게 감소시키는지도 생각해 보라. --Jermy (Blah blah...) 09:31, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
동적 IP 질문: 차단?
나는 여러 개의 IP(일반적으로 동적 IP)를 포함하는 삭푸펫 케이스를 제출했고, 다양한 대화 페이지에 노트를 배치했다.오늘날, 동일한 시리즈의 12.76.154.63의 IP는 이전에 내가 알린 모든 토크 페이지를 편집하지 않았고, 위스콘신 주 록스베리에 생산적인 편집을 하는 데 (동일한 시리즈의 여러 다른 IP와 함께) 참여하였다.12.76.154.63은 반달리즘(그 대화 페이지를 비움으로써)으로 차단되었고, 12시리즈 IP 중 하나가 동적 IP를 가진 동일인이라고 진술했기 때문에, 첫 번째 IP의 블록이 끝날 때까지 다른 모든 IP의 편집을 차단하는 것이 옳은가?나이튼드 (토크) 15:28, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- IP가 메시지를 읽은 후 자신의 대화 페이지를 비웠다는 이유로 차단되었는가?그것이 그 블록을 계속하는 가장 좋은 이유처럼 들리지 않는다.어떤 행동이 백과사전의 개선에 가장 도움이 될까? -- zzuzz 15:44, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
WP 토크 페이지 가이드라인은 "사용자는 보관 방식이 선호되지만 자신의 토크 페이지에서 자유롭게 의견을 삭제할 수 있다"고 명시하고 있다.또한 보관에서 일부 내용을 제거할 수도 있다.경고의 제거는 사용자가 경고를 읽었다는 증거로 간주된다.여기에는 특히 등록 사용자와 익명 사용자 모두 포함된다." —서명되지 않은 의견을 12.76.155.139 (대화) 20:06, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)에 의해 추가됨
- 같은 시리즈에 있는 다른 IP의 토크 페이지에서 삭푸펫 공지를 제거하기 위해 하나의 IP가 차단되었다.Sockpuppet 공지를 제거하는 것이 정말 허용되는가?이 블록은 탄탈라스39가 관리했으며, 양말 공지는 제프 G에 의해 여러 번 풀렸다.Nyttend (대화) 22:20, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그들이 의도했던 사람에 의해 분명히 읽혀진 후에, 양말풀이 의심스러운 사람에 대한 통지와 지시를 둘러싼 편집 전쟁이 정말로 필요한가?당신의 질문에 대한 답은 아마도 그 블록들이 백과사전의 손상이나 중단을 막고 있는지 물어보는 것일 것이다.대신 당신은 그들을 징벌적이고 파괴적인 것으로 보이게 만들고 있다. -- Zzuzz(talk) 22:38, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 항상 sockpuppetry 태그가 모든 것이 보이는 것처럼 보이지 않는다는 통지가 지역사회를 위해 더 의미 있다고 생각해왔다. // 루스 22:45, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그들이 의도했던 사람에 의해 분명히 읽혀진 후에, 양말풀이 의심스러운 사람에 대한 통지와 지시를 둘러싼 편집 전쟁이 정말로 필요한가?당신의 질문에 대한 답은 아마도 그 블록들이 백과사전의 손상이나 중단을 막고 있는지 물어보는 것일 것이다.대신 당신은 그들을 징벌적이고 파괴적인 것으로 보이게 만들고 있다. -- Zzuzz(talk) 22:38, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 같은 시리즈에 있는 다른 IP의 토크 페이지에서 삭푸펫 공지를 제거하기 위해 하나의 IP가 차단되었다.Sockpuppet 공지를 제거하는 것이 정말 허용되는가?이 블록은 탄탈라스39가 관리했으며, 양말 공지는 제프 G에 의해 여러 번 풀렸다.Nyttend (대화) 22:20, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
사용자 Nigh 8, 2legit2quit2, 68.252.29.46
- Nigh8(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)은 최근 무방비로 차단되었다.
- 2레짓2quit2(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)라는 양말이 오늘 차단되었다.
- 양말 IP 주소 68.252.29.46(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)은 최근 Nigh8의 양말이라는 이유로 단기 차단되어 오늘에 돌아왔다.
작지만 성장하는 양말농장.야구 벅스 22:15, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 내 생각엔, 긴밀한 공동체에서 온 것 같아.PhGustaf (대화) 22:25, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 어쨌든 모두 제기랄!야구 벅스What's up, Doc? 22:26, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 양말장난?바느질 안 했다고 하면...HalfShadow 02:38, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 어쨌든 모두 제기랄!야구 벅스What's up, Doc? 22:26, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 관련성이 있는 것 같다 [35].시그니스 휘장 08:53, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 그리고 관리자에 의해 차단된 이후부터.야구벅스 2008년 12월 8일 14:00 (UTC)
셰이크 모후딘 아흐메드
누가 이 기사를 좀 봐줄래?셰이크 모히우딘 아흐메드당시 구글 조회수가 없는 조작이라 삭제됐다.그것은 내가 반달이라고 불리고 내 행동이 면밀히 관찰되었기 때문에 제거되었다 - 애초에 그것을 삭제한 것은 나였다.내가 아직도 의심하는 (신뢰할 수 없는 출처?) 흥분제를 했다고 하더라도, 나는 그가 충분히 주목할 만한 인물이라고 생각하지 않으며, 따라서 그것에 대한 철저한 조사나 영구적인 삭제를 요청한다.일단 리디렉션했으니까 원하면 얼마든지 복원해 줘. Jouke Bersma 09:51, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 우선, 주어진 출처는 얼마나 신뢰할 수 있는가?
둘째, 무명, 겉보기에는 중요하지 않아 보이는 후보로서, 애초에 성공조차 하지 못한 그가 얼마나 주목할 만한 인물인가? Jouke Bersma 10:06, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그것은 나에게 괜찮다.중요한 것은 내가 페이지가 삭제되지 않은 유일한 이유는 내가 삭제되는 것을 예상했기 때문이다.어떤 편집자들은 나를 파괴적인 파괴자처럼 보이게 만들었기 때문에, 편집자들은 내가 여기서 한 모든 편집들을 낱낱이 파헤치기 시작했고, 그들은 완벽하게 잘된 기사 삭제를 우연히 발견했고, 단지 내가 이해받았다고 해서 그것을 삭제하지 않았다 - 만약 다른 누군가가 이 기사를 삭제했다면, 그것은 여전히 삭제되었을 것이다.아무도 신경 안 써그것이 내가 여기서 말하고자 하는 요점이다. Jouke Bersma 11:20, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
그것은 빠른 삭제로 결국 삭제되었다, 맞다.그러나 소아과적으로 그 기사는 적절한 AFD 절차를 거쳤다.히트곡은 없었고 Mgm과 나는 그것이 조작이라고 확신했기 때문에, 기사는 가속이 붙었다. Jouke Bersma 11:28, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 솔직히, 그것은 속임수가 아니었다.만약 그것이 날조였다면, 방글라데시 선거관리위원회가 그것에 관여했다.그럴 것 같지 않다.:) 그런 점을 감안할 때 CSD 후보자는 아니었다(그리고 아니다).나는 너의 첫 번째 지명이 선의로 이루어졌다고 확신해. 그리고 난 그것에 대해 아무런 고민도 없어.이 시점에서 AfD는 선택사항처럼 보이지만, 일단 끌어낼 수 있는 방글라데시의 출처가 없다는 것이 확인되면 자유당 방글라데시로 병합/재도전될 가능성이 높기 때문에, 이 기사는 잠시 앉아서 토론 페이지의 토론이 진행되도록 할 것을 권하고 싶다. - 빌비 (토크) 11:47, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
빌비, 나는 그것에 대해 너의 의견에 동의해야 해.나는 그 페이지와 그 토론을 규칙적으로 계속 볼 것이다.나는 2009년 1월, 약속할 때까지 AfD에 가지 않을 것이다.나는 네가 제안한 방식대로 합병하는 것에 반대하지 않는다.시간 내줘서 고마워, 이 난장판은 이제 다 해결됐어.나는 지금 내 pc에서 만든 기사를 작업하고 있을 거야. 맞는다고 생각되는 대로 게시할 거야.나중에 봐! Jouke Bersma 12:06, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- Jouke, 당신은 왜 지금 그 사람이 분명히 존재하고 잠재적으로 사진을 구할 수 있다는 것을 잘 알고 있었을 때 이것을 상당히 미개하고 완전히 부정확한 편집[요약][36]으로 만들었는가?예: [37] 또는 더 나은 [38]을 참조하십시오.그러면 '오, 결국 날조'가 아니라 '오오오오오'라고만 말하고 나서 자신의 '오해'를 바로잡은 사람을 공격한 다음 다시 잘못된 주장으로 같은 기사를 쫓는 것이 더 현명하지 않을까?프람 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 15분 (UTC)
오케이, 내가 틀렸고 그것은 결국 거짓이 아니었고, 단지 유명하지 않고 눈에 띄지 않았다.그리고 어쩌면 그가 결국 눈에 띄게 될지도 몰라, 정말 멋지지 않을까?나는 계속해서 그 기사를 주의 깊게 볼 것이지만 2009년 1월까지는 AfD에 가지 않을 것이다, 동의했는가? Jouke Bersma 12:19, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
복제본을 가지고 있다.
로그 이동, 직장에서 흥정하는 클론인 것 같다.Yngvar (t) (c) 12:39, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 관리자들이 그것에 대해 연구하고 있다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 12시 42분, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
공공 기물 파손 복구 지원
일부 이용자는 최근 제목을 바꿔 수십 개의 기사를 파손하기도 했다.이 모든 걸 되돌릴 수 있게 도와줄 사람 있어?여기 그의 기여 목록[39]-메가만 엔 m (토크) 13:27, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 두 섹션 위로 스크롤한다. // 루x 13:32, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 고마워.--Megaman en m (토크) 13:41, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
사용자:Dbachmann
안녕. 사용자:Dbachmann은 관리인이지만 아시리아인/찰드인/시리아인에서의 그의 행위는 나에게 전혀 행정적인 것처럼 보이지 않는다.
- 첫째, 그는 어떠한 명분도 없이 논쟁의 여지가 높은 글에서 분쟁이나 NPOV 태그를 제거하거나 요약을 편집한다.그는 그것을 반복해서 했다.
- 둘째로, 그는 정말로 자신이 그 기사를 소유하는 것처럼 행동한다.그는 명분 없이 기사에 추가된 중요하고 소스가 있는 정보를 삭제해 왔다.신원 부분은 6개의 다른 출처를 가지고 있지만 그는 계속해서 그것을 제거해왔다.이유를 묻자 그는 실제로 자신이 삭제해 온 인용문 중 하나인 웹페이지를 언급했다.그는 또한 그가 삭제하는 정보가 거기에 없는데도 시리아크 기독교인들의 이름 페이지를 계속 언급하고 있다.나는 그가 삭제한 것들을 실제로 읽지 않는다고 의심한다.ID 섹션의 소싱된 정보는 아시리아인/샬데인/시리아인의 각 이름이 언제 나타났는지, 그리고 어떻게 그가 언급하는 페이지에는 그러한 내용이 포함되지 않았다.
- 중요한 것은, 그는 어떤 조정도 거절한다는 것이다.내가 페이지 이동 요청을 하자 그는 토크 페이지에서 요청 태그를 삭제하고 내가 이의를 제기한 페이지에서 한 섹션을 삭제했다.관리자들이 왔을 때 그는 전혀 협조하지 않는 것 같았다.그들 중 한 명이 페이지를 옮기자, 그는 그의 움직임을 오버로딩했고, 그를 막았다고 위협했다.나는 WP를 신청했다.MEDCAB의 요청은 무시하고 중재자에게 자신이 중재자로 간주한다고 말했기 때문에 중재에 응하지 않고 내가 여기 온 것이다.HD86 (대화) 12:37, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
어떻게? 게시판에서 내가 너한테 불평하고 있다고 말해야 할까?어차피 지울 텐데.HD86 (대화) 13:34, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
솔직히 나는 그의 강연을 하는 것이 무섭다.한 번 가봤을 때 날 쫓아냈어, 다시 못 가겠어.HD86 (대화) 13:45, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
네가 무슨 말을 하는지 잘 모르겠지만, 내가 "아시리아인"이 멸종된 사람들이라고 말했을 때, 이것은 아무에게도 나쁜 일이 아닐 것이다. 그것은 단지 사실이다.네가 원하는 곳 어디든 찾아봐.어쨌든, 나의 불만은 그것에 대한 것이 아니라, 이유를 설명하기를 원하지 않고 6개의 다른 출처에서 태그와 정보를 삭제하는 것에 대한 것이다.HD86 (대화) 13:38, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
BTW, 나도 Dbachmann에게 이름을 불렀어.그는 나를 트롤이라고 불렀고 편집한 내용을 "랜덤 레닝"이라고 불렀어.하지만, 이것은 내가 불평하는 것이 아니다.HD86 (대화) 13:59, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 여기선 불평이 안 보여당신은 수많은 사례에 대한 당신의 토크 페이지와 코멘트를 지우는 버릇이 있는 것 같고, Dba로부터 그것을 요구받았다.나는 너에게 최근 3RR 통지서, 그리고 몇 개의 전쟁 편집 통지서 등을 전달받았다고 언급했다.당신은 또한 최근에 법적 위협을 한 것에 대해 변명의 여지가 있었지만, 당신이 코멘트를 철회했을 때 이것은 번복되었다.
- 더 나아가서, 사용자측에는 많은 비활용이 있는 것 같다:토크에서의 Gabr-el (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그):아시리아어/찰드어/시리아어족#SCRW IT.2C LEST Just SUT It LEAST It LEADION.21.기사 자체인 HD86에서는 신뢰할 수 없는 최신 출처 또는 인용하고자 하는 것을 명시적으로 정의하지 않는 출처를 연결하거나 참조하는 습관이 있는 것 같다.다른 사람들이 정신병을 앓고 있다고 말하는 것은 내가 말하는 전도성 토론이 아니다.2008년 12월 8일 14:20, 8에 기여하는 세이셔 토크(UTC)
좋아, 이제 내가 말한 것 대신에 내 개인적인 역사와 습관에 대해 의논하는 거야.나는 그것에 대해 어떤 언급도 하지 않을 것이다. 하지만 나는 당신이 가톨릭 백과사전이나 옥스퍼드 사전과 같은 참고 문헌을 "신뢰할 수 없는 프린지 소스"로 분류한다는 사실을 발견한다.게다가, 나의 편집은 출처로부터의 반문학적인 인용구인데, "소스는 당신이 인용하고자 하는 것을 명시적으로 정의하지 않는다"고 말하는 것은 당신이 정말로 나의 편집본을 읽었는지 아니면 당신이 Dbachmann처럼 무슨 말을 하는지 모른 채 그저 말하는 것인지, 악의는 없는 것인지 심각하게 생각하게 만든다.
다음은 사람들이 판단할 수 있도록 내가 삭제한 항목이다.
역사적으로 모두 네오아람어의 사투리를 구사하는 아시리아/샬데안/시리아어 공동체는 시리아어 또는 시리아어 기독교인으로 알려져 있었는데, 이는 문자 그대로 수라이어/수라이어티에 해당한다.시리아 대신 시리아를 사용하는 것은 1936년 시리아 아랍 공화국이 수립된 이후 보편화됐다.[시리아크 기독교인의 이름으로 언급됨]
시리아크에서 일반적으로 마술사나 점성가를 의미했던 찰딘이라는 호칭은 17세기 모술의 라틴 선교사들이 그것을 디스틴에 채택하기 전까지 라틴어와 다른 유럽 언어인 시리아어와 시리아어 또는 아라마어(특히 다니엘의 특정 장에서 발견되는 후자의 형태)로 표기되었다.'시리아인'이라고 부르는 서시리아 제례와 '시리아인'이라고 부르는 네스토리아인으로부터 동시리아 제례의 천주교도를 구이케 하고, 자기네 교회를 '동양의 교회'라고 부르는 네스토리아인으로부터도 구이케 한다.[40]
아시리아라는 용어는 19세기에 동양교회에서 처음 사용되었다.특히 성공회계에서는 시리아인 자신들에게 미움을 받고 정통성을 선입견하는 듯한 네스토리안이라는 이름을 피하는 방법으로 인기를 끌었다.[46] 새로운 이름의 등장은 19세기 동안 일어난 고대 바빌로니아와 아시리아의 발견과 쿠네폼의 해독, 그리고 같은 시기에 일어난 오스만 제국 치하의 민족주의의 발흥과 일치했다.
자가식별된 샬데인과 아라마이어인은 아시리아 민족주의자에 의해 자주 "아시리아인"이라고 불린다.이것은 고대 아시리아인이나 현대 아시리아 민족주의와 완전히 또는 부분적으로 동일시되기를 원하지 않는 많은 혹은 심지어 대부분의 사람들에 의해 깊이 분개하고 있다.이것은 예를 들어, 미국의 인구 조사 항목과 이라크의 인종 공동체를 언급하는 언론에서의 진술에 대해 격렬한 논쟁을 불러 일으켰다.따라서 언론보도는 때때로 이라크의 기독교 공동체가 고대 시대에 사라진 언어인 "아시리아어"를 구사한다고까지 말한다(많은 아시리아인들은 자신들이 고대 아시리아어를 사용하고 있다고 믿지만).심지어 일부 아시리아인들은 그들의 고대 기독교를 거부하고 아슈르와 같은 아시리아 신들의 예배를 되살리기를 희망하기도 한다.이것은 이슬람 국가들 대부분에게 용인되지 않을 것이다.민족주의 신화, 현대아시리아인에 관한 노트
HD86 (대화) 15:11, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그건 여기 ANI에 있을 게 아니야그 정보의 관련성에 대한 논의는 기사 TOKK 페이지에 속하며, WP를 얻기 위해 여기서 논의되어야 한다.포함에 대한 합의.출처가 신뢰할 수 있는지 여부는 Reselcablass Source 통지 게시판으로 가져올 수 있다.►BMW◄ 15:49, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
흥미로운 단어 선택.2008년 12월 8일 16:08, 8에 기여하는 세이셔 토크(UTC)
- 막혔어?어, 어. ouBMW◄ 16:35, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- lol @ 블록 로그의 "토크 페이지 괴상함"...재미있게 넣는 방법이다.그러나 실제로 나는 동의한다: 사용자들은 파괴적인 편집자로 보인다.Ncmvocalist (대화) 17:16, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 막혔어?어, 어. ouBMW◄ 16:35, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
그건 여기 ANI에 있을 게 아니야나는 이 부분에서 "무적절한 관리자"의 상태를 주장하지 않기 때문에, 이것이 무엇에 관한 것인지, 또는 이 섹션이 내 사용자 이름을 머리글에 가지는 이유를 알 수 없다.이것은 그저 내가 포브 푸셔가 포기하기 직전(또는 포기하기 위해 만들어지고) 백과사전이 복원되기 직전 최후의 노력으로 얻는 평범한 위키리필러링일 뿐이다.날 믿어, 난 지금쯤 이것들의 라이프 사이클을 알고 있어.앞으로 한두 주 정도 지나면 최정점 히스테리를 넘길 것으로 예상하는데, 두 달 정도 지나면 상당히 안정적인 기사가 나올 겁니다. --dab (1998년) 17:55, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
죽음의 위협
안녕. 이 죽음의 위협에 대해 우리는 어떻게 해야 할까?심각하게 생각해?이 버전을 삭제하시겠습니까?관련, —αατίία • •토론• 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- WP:RBI 내가 생각하기에는.무뚝뚝하게 굴다니 좀 멍청한 반달리즘 같아 보이네Wilding61476 (대화) 16:03, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
도도부에서의 IP 문제
분명히 같은 IP, 모든 공공 기물 파손은 단지 계정일 뿐이다.나는 이 모든 것, 그리고 아마도 범위 블록을 수여해 줄 것을 요청한다.하지만, 난 이게...WP에 적합한:AIV. 건배.진심으로 2008년 12월 8일(Talk) (UTC)
- BTW, WP:PROT#세미도 좋을 것 같아. :) 건배.진심으로 2008년 12월 8일(Talk) (UTC)
GDFL 위반 페이지
미국 자폐협회는 명백히 삭제되었다가 누군가 복사-붙여넣기를 사용함으로써 재탄생되었다.[47] 이는 GDFL에 따라 우리가 제공해야 하는 신용을 파괴하고, 페이지를 다시 작성하거나, 최초 삭제 이유를 삭제 검토 또는 여기에서 무효로 선언해야 한다. (분명히 삭제 이유를 알 수 없으므로, 삭제 이유가 유효한지 알 수 없다.슈메이커 홀리데이 (토크) 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 난 여기서 문제가 안 보여.기사에 prod 태그가 여러 차례 추가돼 제거된 것으로 보이지만, 어느 시점에서도 실제로 삭제된 것은 아닌 것으로 보인다.분명한 것을 놓치고 있지 않는 한 역사는 온전하게 나타난다.카라낙스 (대화) 16:27, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
(ec) 나는 조금 전에 옛 역사를 복원했다.그웬 게일 (토크) 16:28, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
사용자 중단:민족 노선을 따라가는 베이락
지금까지 이 사용자들의 편집은 대부분 친아랍, 반이란 성향으로 나타나 위키백과 정책과 지침의 틀 안에서 완전히 작동하지 않는다.내가 제기할 수 있는 몇 가지 예는 다음과 같다.
독창적인 (솔직히, 그리고 부정확한) 관점을 따라 기사를 편집하려고 시도하는 중 [48] (남자가 Seyed라면 그는 아랍인이어야 한다는 것): Talk: 참조:루홀라 호메이니#그는 아랍인이 아닌가!!이 섹션에서 그는 [49] 경고를 받았지만 12월 5일 토크에서 다시 시도하기로 결정했다.루홀라 호메이니 #가짜 속담...
아제리스가 이란 국적을 가질 수 있다는 사실을 부인하는 터무니없는 시도:아제리스는 이란/페르시아인이 아니다.그가 (이란 국적을 가진 아제리의 대표적인 예인) 이란 최고지도자에 대한 기사에 이런 시도를 선택했다는 것은 베이락이 단지 문제를 일으키려 하고 있다는 것을 시사한다.
때때로 그는 출처를 추가하지 않고 태그를 제거하거나 자료를 삭제하기도 한다 [50][51][52]. 또 어떤 때는 문제를 찾으려고 시도하지 않고 태그를 지정하거나 자료를 삭제하기도 한다. 보통은 전치되지 않은 페르시아인 pa ahaakeee와 그가 아랍어로 된 그의 모든 작품들에 대한 주장을 제거하기 위해서 말이다.그는 그들이 아랍인이라는 출처를 제공하지 않고 "아랍어"를 추가할 수도 있다.그의 이중 잣대가 어떻게 인종적 선을 따라 구성되는지 궁금하다...
만약 그 자료가 어떤 것이 이란산이라고 주장한다면, 그는 심지어 확실한 설명 없이 소싱된 물질을 반복적으로 제거할 수도 있다:[53][54][55][56]
원본 이미지에 대한 AGF 위반: 가짜......그가 (쿠웨이트에서 이란 소녀들의) 이미지를 삭제한 것은 그가 그것의 진실성을 의심하기 때문이지만, 작가와 접촉을 시도하거나, 그렇지 않으면 그 의심의 혜택을 주지 않기 때문이다.이는 좋지 않은 관행처럼 보이며, (쿠웨이트에 이란인이 많다는 것을 부인하기 때문에) 이란이 주둔하는 것에 대해서도 적용되는 것은 민족 분쟁이라는 골치 아픈 패턴에 들어맞는다.
이 목록은 거의 완전한 것이 아니다.이러한 혼란의 많은 부분에 대한 명백한 인종적 동기는 상당히 우려되는 방법이다.건설적 편집자가 되고자 하는 욕구를 거의 보이지 않는 사용자로부터 이러한 행동이 견제받지 않고 계속될 수 있다는 것은 건설적 편집자에게 불공평해 보인다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 21:02, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 나는 이것에 별로 덧붙일 것이 없다, 그는 모든 것을 완벽하게 말했다.한 가지만 분명히 하자.그는 정말 화제에 오른다.그는 그 페이지로 가기 전에 취한 견해에 대해 결코 설득당하지 않는다.그는 우리가 가끔 하는 주장과 논점을 무시하고, 우리가 그것을 만들었음을 인정하지도 않는다.그리고 마지막으로 중요한 것은, 우리가 동의하지 않는다면 그는 끈질기게 자신의 견해를 밀어붙인다.전체가 답답하다. --Enzuru 21:13, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 그럼에도 불구하고 그는 일부 사례에서만 토크페이지에 올라간다.예를 들어 오세티안에서는 이란 민족이라는 곱셈 소스와 상당히 논란의 여지가 없는 사실을 반복적으로 제거해 버린 오세티안에서는 다음과 같은 질문을 받고도 이 문제를 토크 페이지로 가져가지 않았다.그러나 당신이 지적했듯이, 그의 토크 페이지 참여는 어쨌든 결실을 맺지 못한다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 21:23, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 태그 제거에 대한 우려와는 별도로, 여기 있는 다른 불만 사항들 중 일부는 명확한 증거가 없거나 매우 오래된 증거를 인용하는 것이 상당히 모호하다(출처 제거에 대한 차이점은 수개월 전부터이다.예를 들어, 누구든 최근 분명한 토크 페이지 컨센서스가 있었던 사례와 그 컨센서스에 대항한 베이락 편집 사례를 보여주는 디프피를 제공할 수 있을까?만약 그렇지 않다면, 이것은 ANI의 문제가 아니다.나는 민족/문화 분쟁 게시판에서 실을 뽑는 것과 같은 분쟁 해결의 다른 단계를 추천하고 싶다.태그에 대해서도 베이락과 이야기를 나누겠다. --엘론카 21:52, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 이것은 다소 최근의 일이다. --Enzuru 22:52, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 호메이니 사태도 최근인데, 특히 그에 대한 경고를 받았음에도 불구하고 똑같은 어처구니없는 실타래를 계속하겠다는 그의 결정이 그렇다.하메네이의 편집 또한 지난 며칠 안에 이루어졌다.이러한 파괴적인 행동은 나이든 편집과 최근의 편집 모두에서 명백하다; 불행히도 당신은 그것이 그의 위키백과 경력의 특징이라고 말할지도 모른다.외로운 늑대를 두고 어떤 지시사항이라도 게시판에 가는 것은 타당해 보이지 않는다.그는 자신이 좋아하지 않는 정보를 삭제할 때 그것을 인용했기 때문에 분명히 규칙을 알고 있다.그가 자신의 목적을 위해 그것들을 위반한다는 것은 위키백과 규칙에 대한 기본적인 존중의 부족을 배반하는 것이지, 이해의 부족을 배반하는 것이 아니다; 그의 혐오스러운 이중 잣대를 목격했다는 것은 무죄나 오해의 주장을 받아들이기 어렵다.나는 이러한 전술에 현혹되어서는 안 된다는 것을 강조하는데, 이는 진정으로 선의의 이용자들의 혼란과 좌절만을 연장시킬 뿐이다.우리는 토론, 설명, 경고를 시도했지만 소용이 없었다.67.194.202.113 (대화) 05:28, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 이것은 다소 최근의 일이다. --Enzuru 22:52, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 태그 제거에 대한 우려와는 별도로, 여기 있는 다른 불만 사항들 중 일부는 명확한 증거가 없거나 매우 오래된 증거를 인용하는 것이 상당히 모호하다(출처 제거에 대한 차이점은 수개월 전부터이다.예를 들어, 누구든 최근 분명한 토크 페이지 컨센서스가 있었던 사례와 그 컨센서스에 대항한 베이락 편집 사례를 보여주는 디프피를 제공할 수 있을까?만약 그렇지 않다면, 이것은 ANI의 문제가 아니다.나는 민족/문화 분쟁 게시판에서 실을 뽑는 것과 같은 분쟁 해결의 다른 단계를 추천하고 싶다.태그에 대해서도 베이락과 이야기를 나누겠다. --엘론카 21:52, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 그럼에도 불구하고 그는 일부 사례에서만 토크페이지에 올라간다.예를 들어 오세티안에서는 이란 민족이라는 곱셈 소스와 상당히 논란의 여지가 없는 사실을 반복적으로 제거해 버린 오세티안에서는 다음과 같은 질문을 받고도 이 문제를 토크 페이지로 가져가지 않았다.그러나 당신이 지적했듯이, 그의 토크 페이지 참여는 어쨌든 결실을 맺지 못한다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 21:23, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
아랍어 위키백과에서는 우리는 I의 불평을 받아들이지 않는다.P 그들이 그럴지 나는 여기서 모른다 왜냐하면 그들은 I를 받았기 때문이다.P는 항상 --Bayrak (talk) 21:45, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 이것은 아랍어 위키백과가 아니다.WP:AGF --Smashvilletalk 22:35, 2008년 12월 5일 (UTC)
- 사용자가 자신의 부적절한 행동에 대한 실타래에 대한 반응으로 자신의 부적절한 행동에 대한 예를 제시하면 재미있다.베이락, 당신은 당신에 대한 혐의에 대해 사실적으로 변론을 제기하는 것을 고려할지도 모른다, 건전한 추론 없이 나(또는 다른 사용자)를 공격하는 대신에. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 05:28, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 나는 내 감시 목록에 관련 기사(Khwarizmh, Ruhola Homeini)를 추가했고, 그 토크 페이지에 몇 개의 코멘트를 추가했으며, 베이라크(토크·논문), 67.194.202.113(토크·논문), 엔즈루(토크·논문)의 편집을 주시할 것이다.다른 관리자가 동의하는 경우, 이 스레드는 아마도 해결된 것으로 표시될 수 있다. "현재는 관리자 모니터링 대상이며, 현재 다른 조치가 필요하지 않다." --Elonka 06:08, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
- 지금까지 이 문제에 대해 의견을 개진한 유일한 행정관인데, (이미 제시되었음에도 불구하고 "최근의 차이점"을 묻는) 당신의 답변은 이 시점에서 그 사건을 완전히 이해하지 못한다는 것을 암시한다.그가 지금까지 우리의 반응에 적절하게 반응하지 않았기 때문에 우리가 이미 한 것보다 더 많이 하는 것이 중요하다.앞으로 어떤 방향으로 가느냐에 따라 이 사건에 어떻게 다르게 대응해야 하는지에 대한 행정의견을 몇 가지 더 사용할 수 있을 것이다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 06:23, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 관리자가 정확히 무엇을 하기를 원하는가? --Elonka 18:37, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
- 너는 너보다 그에게 더 가혹하게 대해야 한다.그의 토크 페이지에 있는 당신의 메시지는 그가 단지 더 잘 알지 못하는 것처럼 그를 대하지만, 그것은 거의 그렇지 않다.그를 의심하지 마라.그가 자신에게 편리할 때만 규칙을 이해해왔기 때문에 이 시점에서 선의로 생각하는 것은 잘못된 것이다; 이것은 그가 규칙에 대한 진정한 오해를 배제하고 오히려 규칙을 신경쓰지 않고 민족주의 노선을 따라 의제를 진전시키고 있다는 것을 드러내며, 그들이 규칙을 도울 때는 그것을 이용하고, 그들이 그들을 도울 때는 그것을 무시하는 것이다.이봐, 하지 마.그가 지금 뒤에 숨으려고 할 수 있는 어떤 말(불쌍한 영어실력이나 새로운 것)은 명백한 이중 잣대가 그의 주장된 결백과 무지에 반하는 것이기 때문에 일말의 염치로 받아들여야 한다.당신이 소통해야 할 것은 지금까지의 그의 편집의 병폐가 이제 모두에게 분명해졌고, 따라서 그가 더 잘 알고 있기 때문에 더 이상의 범법행위는 블록에 부딪힐 것이라는 점이다.나는 이미 그에게 이 끝까지 경고했지만 그는 물론 신경도 쓰지 않았고, 심지어 내가 경고했던 아주 파괴적인 실타래를 과감하게 계속했다.행정관으로서 그를 겁을 주어 순응하게 할 수는 있겠지만, 우선 그의 오행의 본질을 회피하려는 그의 시도에 현혹되지 않는 것이 분명해야 한다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 20:19, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 동의한다. 편집자 "베이락"의 다소 터무니없는 편집에 저항하는 사람들은 가까운 실제 범인보다 훨씬 더 많은 종류의 "언어적 채찍질"을 받은 것 같다.베이락은 위키피디아의 규칙과 목적을 매우 잘 이해하고 있으며, 상황이 자신에게 맞을 때만 무지를 주장한다.요컨대 베이락은 본질적으로 명백히 반페르시아인/반이란적인 의제를 가지고 있으며, 그 의제를 진전시키기 위해 영어 위키피디아를 이용하려 하고 있다는 것이다.그는 어떤 조치가 취해질 때까지 틀림없이 이 행동을 계속할 것이다.스키타이인 21:17, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 아무 조치도 취해지지 않는 것을 보면 답답하고, 역사적으로 자신이 바라는 것에 대해 강한 공감대를 가지고 있는 기사에 대해 행정관이 우리에게 합의를 요구하고 있다는 것을 상당히 대담하게 생각하고 있을 것이다. --엔즈루 02:15, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 동의한다. 편집자 "베이락"의 다소 터무니없는 편집에 저항하는 사람들은 가까운 실제 범인보다 훨씬 더 많은 종류의 "언어적 채찍질"을 받은 것 같다.베이락은 위키피디아의 규칙과 목적을 매우 잘 이해하고 있으며, 상황이 자신에게 맞을 때만 무지를 주장한다.요컨대 베이락은 본질적으로 명백히 반페르시아인/반이란적인 의제를 가지고 있으며, 그 의제를 진전시키기 위해 영어 위키피디아를 이용하려 하고 있다는 것이다.그는 어떤 조치가 취해질 때까지 틀림없이 이 행동을 계속할 것이다.스키타이인 21:17, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 너는 너보다 그에게 더 가혹하게 대해야 한다.그의 토크 페이지에 있는 당신의 메시지는 그가 단지 더 잘 알지 못하는 것처럼 그를 대하지만, 그것은 거의 그렇지 않다.그를 의심하지 마라.그가 자신에게 편리할 때만 규칙을 이해해왔기 때문에 이 시점에서 선의로 생각하는 것은 잘못된 것이다; 이것은 그가 규칙에 대한 진정한 오해를 배제하고 오히려 규칙을 신경쓰지 않고 민족주의 노선을 따라 의제를 진전시키고 있다는 것을 드러내며, 그들이 규칙을 도울 때는 그것을 이용하고, 그들이 그들을 도울 때는 그것을 무시하는 것이다.이봐, 하지 마.그가 지금 뒤에 숨으려고 할 수 있는 어떤 말(불쌍한 영어실력이나 새로운 것)은 명백한 이중 잣대가 그의 주장된 결백과 무지에 반하는 것이기 때문에 일말의 염치로 받아들여야 한다.당신이 소통해야 할 것은 지금까지의 그의 편집의 병폐가 이제 모두에게 분명해졌고, 따라서 그가 더 잘 알고 있기 때문에 더 이상의 범법행위는 블록에 부딪힐 것이라는 점이다.나는 이미 그에게 이 끝까지 경고했지만 그는 물론 신경도 쓰지 않았고, 심지어 내가 경고했던 아주 파괴적인 실타래를 과감하게 계속했다.행정관으로서 그를 겁을 주어 순응하게 할 수는 있겠지만, 우선 그의 오행의 본질을 회피하려는 그의 시도에 현혹되지 않는 것이 분명해야 한다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 20:19, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 관리자가 정확히 무엇을 하기를 원하는가? --Elonka 18:37, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
- 지금까지 이 문제에 대해 의견을 개진한 유일한 행정관인데, (이미 제시되었음에도 불구하고 "최근의 차이점"을 묻는) 당신의 답변은 이 시점에서 그 사건을 완전히 이해하지 못한다는 것을 암시한다.그가 지금까지 우리의 반응에 적절하게 반응하지 않았기 때문에 우리가 이미 한 것보다 더 많이 하는 것이 중요하다.앞으로 어떤 방향으로 가느냐에 따라 이 사건에 어떻게 다르게 대응해야 하는지에 대한 행정의견을 몇 가지 더 사용할 수 있을 것이다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 06:23, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 나는 내 감시 목록에 관련 기사(Khwarizmh, Ruhola Homeini)를 추가했고, 그 토크 페이지에 몇 개의 코멘트를 추가했으며, 베이라크(토크·논문), 67.194.202.113(토크·논문), 엔즈루(토크·논문)의 편집을 주시할 것이다.다른 관리자가 동의하는 경우, 이 스레드는 아마도 해결된 것으로 표시될 수 있다. "현재는 관리자 모니터링 대상이며, 현재 다른 조치가 필요하지 않다." --Elonka 06:08, 2008년 12월 6일(UTC)
- 사용자가 자신의 부적절한 행동에 대한 실타래에 대한 반응으로 자신의 부적절한 행동에 대한 예를 제시하면 재미있다.베이락, 당신은 당신에 대한 혐의에 대해 사실적으로 변론을 제기하는 것을 고려할지도 모른다, 건전한 추론 없이 나(또는 다른 사용자)를 공격하는 대신에. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 05:28, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 흠, 재미있군.특히 아제리스가 부분적으로 이란인이기 때문에 적어도.나는 이 녀석을 감시할 것이다.만약 그가 생산적인 기여를 하지 않는다면 그는 머지않아 금지될 것이다.모레스치(토크) 23:06, 2008년 12월 6일 (UTC)
- 좋아, 이제 그만, 그는 파괴적인 호메이니 실을 더 밀어내기로 결정했다[57].이 시점에서 그를 막아라; 그에게서 더 이상의 트롤링과 바보같은 게임을 용인하는 것은 의미가 없다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 09:01, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 헤이 67.xxx --
나는 그런 기사에서는 별로편집하지않지만, 여기서이실마리를 보았고, 이문제에 관심이 있기때문에 계속 주시하고 있다.나는 여기서 읽고 있는 것을 바탕으로 베이락(bayrak)에 대한 너의 견해에 기대고 있었다.하지만 당신이 토크 페이지에서 지적하는 것 역시 특별히 나쁜 것 같지는 않다.나는 호메이니에 대해서는 잘 모르지만, 수많은 이란인(하메네이를 포함한)들은 예언자의 부족으로부터 점잖게 주장한다.그러한 혈통을 주장하는 것이 그들을 덜 이란인으로 만드는 것이 아니다; 지난 1,400년 동안 많은 결혼과 대가족이 있었다.나는 호메이니와 쿠라이쉬에 대한 저 사람의 토크 페이지 주장이 사실인지에 대해 무게를 두고 있는 것이 아니다. (그 내용 문제는 저쪽에서 다루어져야 한다 - 유전자학에 대한 이란과 아랍의 공통된 관심을 고려할 때, 쉽게 대답할 수 있어야 한다.)그 말을 지적하는 것만으로는 범위를 벗어나지 않는다.발리 최종 (토크) 15:50, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)- 좋아, 전체 토크 페이지를 읽어봐.베이락은 분명히 의제를 추구하고 있다(기본적으로 그의 주장은 호메니가 먼 과거에 아랍의 조상을 가지고 있었고 이것이 그를 '이란'이 아닌 '아랍'으로 만든다는 것이다).이것이 왜 잘못된 것인지 지적하기 위한 다양한 시도가 있었다.그는 머리가 돌았다.그래서, 왜 그가 혼란스럽고 의제를 밀어붙이고 있다고 느끼는지 알 수 있다.그가 토크 페이지에 국한된 한 그냥 무시하는 게 어때?만약 그가 이 내용을 기사 내용에 반영되지 않게 밀어붙이기 시작했다면, 다시 돌아오라고?발리 최종 (토크) 16:13, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 발리가 맞다.베이락 씨의 발언은 가식적일 수도 있고 그렇지 않을 수도 있지만, 나는 단순히 대화 페이지에 자신의 생각을 말한다는 이유로 누군가를 차단하는 것은 꺼린다.만약 그가 부적절한 편집을 토크페이지의 합의에 반대하여 기사에 밀어붙였다면 그건 좀 다른 것이겠지만, 만약 그가 단지 자신의 견해를 토크페이지에 제시하려고 한다면, 그것이 우리가 사람들이 논쟁에서 하기를 바라는 것이다.아무도 동의하지 않는다면, 음, 그를 무시하라. --엘론카 19:59, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그 혼란은 화제에 국한된 것이 아니다.증거로 제시된 차이점을 실제로 읽어보십시오. 이 내용은 기사에서 시작하십시오.그의 기여도에 대한 빠른 조사도 이 점을 더욱 증명할 것이다.대개는 어떤 터무니없는 반이란/프로아랍의 기사(호메이니에서, 하메네이에서, 오세티안에서, 일부 중세 학자들에 관한 기사 등에서)의 기사로 시작한다.결국 그는 토크 페이지로 갈 수도 있지만, 우리가 보아온 것처럼 그의 참여는 건설적이지 않고 종종 트롤링과 비슷하며 집요하다.파괴적인 기사 편집과 파괴적인 토크 페이지 편집으로, (그가 편할 때에만 존중되는) 규칙에 대한 지식으로, 나는 그를 보호하고 이 실타래에 있는 의심의 혜택을 그에게까지 확대하려는 추진력에 완전히 사로잡혀 있다.비록 기사에 차질이 없었더라도, 언제부터 위키백과의 커리어에 대해 경고했음에도 불구하고 토크 페이지는 트롤링되고 있는가?만약 그가 경고한 후에 멈췄다면, 우리가 그를 오해했다고 말할 수 있을 것이다.만약 그가 이 실마리를 잡은 후에 멈췄다면, 아마도 우리는 여전히 그를 오해했다고 말할 수 있을 것이다.그러나 그는 경고받은 바로 그 실마리를 계속 이어왔다; 이 도발이 행정부에 의해 용인된 것은 매우 유감스러운 일이다.67.194.202.113 (대화) 21:47, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 여기서 트롤링하는 것을 보는 것이 아니라 영어에 대한 이해력이 부족한 사람을 만나고 있다.아랍어 위키피디아에 참여하려고 하면, 내 자신의 게시물은 상당히 이해할 수 없을 것이고, 누군가 나에게 오랫동안 사려 깊은 회답을 준다면, 나는 그저 그것을 해독할 수 없는 텍스트의 벽으로 보고, 그들이 말하고자 하는 철학적 미묘한 점들을 모두 놓치게 될 것이라고 나는 상상한다.그래서 나는 내가 이해한 것에 근거해서 대답하곤 했는데, 만약 그들이 내가 나머지 그들의 게시물에 응답하지 않는다고 화를 내고, 내가 이해하지 못한 더 많은 것으로 나에게 응답한다면, 상황은 소용돌이 칠 것이다.내가 추천하는 것은 조금만 더 인내심을 가져보는 것이다.이 편집자와 짧고 간단한 문장으로 대화하십시오.작은 단어를 쓰세요.그가 너를 무시할 때 일부러 무시한다고 생각하지 마.그 대신, 당신이 그의 어휘에 없는 단어들을 사용했을 수도 있기 때문에 그가 방금 당신이 한 말을 이해하지 못했다고 가정해보라.이제, 나는 이 프로젝트에 효과적으로 참여하기 위해 영어가 충분하지 않은 사람에게 얼마나 많은 인내심을 보여줘야 하는지에 한계가 있다는 아래의 모레스치의 의견에 동의하지만, "롤" 단어를 사용함으로써 상황을 악화시키지 맙시다. --Elonka 23:03, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 실제로 이 남자가 블록의 방향으로 움직이고 있는 것을 볼 수 있다. (이 문제에 대해 엘론카와는 의견이 다른 것 같다. 그의 영어에 대한 이해력은 문제의 실체를 이해할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 강해 보인다.)그러나 관리인 엘론카는 이 사람을 감시하겠다고 선의로 약속한 것으로 보인다.나는 그녀가 그렇게 할 것이고 너는 계속 그렇게 해야 한다고 확신해. 그리고 만약 기사 메인 스페이스에 같은 행동이 더 많이 나온다면, 다른 조치들이 취해질지도 몰라.너는 곧 여기로 돌아올지도 몰라.돌아오면, UserX가 y를 하고, 경고를 받고, y를 다시 한 것처럼 프레임을 씌워라.과거에 같은 공기 문제에 대해 경고를 받았다.그 모든 것에 대한 차이점을 제공하라.그는 결국 막힐지도 모른다.그러나 그가 지금 막히는 것을 계속 고집하는 것은 당신의 나중의 사건에 도움이 되지 않을 것이고, 지금 원하는 것을 얻지 못할 것이며, 단지 당신의 입장이 덜 심각하게 받아들여지게 될 수도 있다(자원봉사 프로젝트에서, 때때로 삐걱거리는 바퀴는 아무리 불공평해 보일지라도 덜 기름기를 얻는다).발리 최종 (토크) 23:24, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그 행동이 계속된다면 반드시 주의를 끌 것이다.그러면 지금까지 보아온 응석받이와 지연 대신 올바른 결정이 내려지길 바란다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 23:48, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 사용자 "Bayrak"는 위의 "아랍어 위키백과에서 우리는 I의 불평을 받아들이지 않는다"고 말한다.P 그들이 그럴지 나는 여기서 모른다 왜냐하면 그들은 I를 받았기 때문이다.P는 항상"을 표시한다.이것이 그 불평이 왜 관련이 있는지를 보여주는 가장 좋은 증거다.나는 언어 X에서 언어 Y의 주장까지 타당성을 떨어뜨려서는 안 된다는 것에 모든 사람이 동의한다고 생각한다.아랍어 위키백과에서 그가 말한 대로라면, 우리는 전체 ar에 대한 리뷰를 생각해봐야 한다.wikipedia.org.--messages (대화) 21:23, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그 행동이 계속된다면 반드시 주의를 끌 것이다.그러면 지금까지 보아온 응석받이와 지연 대신 올바른 결정이 내려지길 바란다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 23:48, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 실제로 이 남자가 블록의 방향으로 움직이고 있는 것을 볼 수 있다. (이 문제에 대해 엘론카와는 의견이 다른 것 같다. 그의 영어에 대한 이해력은 문제의 실체를 이해할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 강해 보인다.)그러나 관리인 엘론카는 이 사람을 감시하겠다고 선의로 약속한 것으로 보인다.나는 그녀가 그렇게 할 것이고 너는 계속 그렇게 해야 한다고 확신해. 그리고 만약 기사 메인 스페이스에 같은 행동이 더 많이 나온다면, 다른 조치들이 취해질지도 몰라.너는 곧 여기로 돌아올지도 몰라.돌아오면, UserX가 y를 하고, 경고를 받고, y를 다시 한 것처럼 프레임을 씌워라.과거에 같은 공기 문제에 대해 경고를 받았다.그 모든 것에 대한 차이점을 제공하라.그는 결국 막힐지도 모른다.그러나 그가 지금 막히는 것을 계속 고집하는 것은 당신의 나중의 사건에 도움이 되지 않을 것이고, 지금 원하는 것을 얻지 못할 것이며, 단지 당신의 입장이 덜 심각하게 받아들여지게 될 수도 있다(자원봉사 프로젝트에서, 때때로 삐걱거리는 바퀴는 아무리 불공평해 보일지라도 덜 기름기를 얻는다).발리 최종 (토크) 23:24, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 나는 여기서 트롤링하는 것을 보는 것이 아니라 영어에 대한 이해력이 부족한 사람을 만나고 있다.아랍어 위키피디아에 참여하려고 하면, 내 자신의 게시물은 상당히 이해할 수 없을 것이고, 누군가 나에게 오랫동안 사려 깊은 회답을 준다면, 나는 그저 그것을 해독할 수 없는 텍스트의 벽으로 보고, 그들이 말하고자 하는 철학적 미묘한 점들을 모두 놓치게 될 것이라고 나는 상상한다.그래서 나는 내가 이해한 것에 근거해서 대답하곤 했는데, 만약 그들이 내가 나머지 그들의 게시물에 응답하지 않는다고 화를 내고, 내가 이해하지 못한 더 많은 것으로 나에게 응답한다면, 상황은 소용돌이 칠 것이다.내가 추천하는 것은 조금만 더 인내심을 가져보는 것이다.이 편집자와 짧고 간단한 문장으로 대화하십시오.작은 단어를 쓰세요.그가 너를 무시할 때 일부러 무시한다고 생각하지 마.그 대신, 당신이 그의 어휘에 없는 단어들을 사용했을 수도 있기 때문에 그가 방금 당신이 한 말을 이해하지 못했다고 가정해보라.이제, 나는 이 프로젝트에 효과적으로 참여하기 위해 영어가 충분하지 않은 사람에게 얼마나 많은 인내심을 보여줘야 하는지에 한계가 있다는 아래의 모레스치의 의견에 동의하지만, "롤" 단어를 사용함으로써 상황을 악화시키지 맙시다. --Elonka 23:03, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 그 혼란은 화제에 국한된 것이 아니다.증거로 제시된 차이점을 실제로 읽어보십시오. 이 내용은 기사에서 시작하십시오.그의 기여도에 대한 빠른 조사도 이 점을 더욱 증명할 것이다.대개는 어떤 터무니없는 반이란/프로아랍의 기사(호메이니에서, 하메네이에서, 오세티안에서, 일부 중세 학자들에 관한 기사 등에서)의 기사로 시작한다.결국 그는 토크 페이지로 갈 수도 있지만, 우리가 보아온 것처럼 그의 참여는 건설적이지 않고 종종 트롤링과 비슷하며 집요하다.파괴적인 기사 편집과 파괴적인 토크 페이지 편집으로, (그가 편할 때에만 존중되는) 규칙에 대한 지식으로, 나는 그를 보호하고 이 실타래에 있는 의심의 혜택을 그에게까지 확대하려는 추진력에 완전히 사로잡혀 있다.비록 기사에 차질이 없었더라도, 언제부터 위키백과의 커리어에 대해 경고했음에도 불구하고 토크 페이지는 트롤링되고 있는가?만약 그가 경고한 후에 멈췄다면, 우리가 그를 오해했다고 말할 수 있을 것이다.만약 그가 이 실마리를 잡은 후에 멈췄다면, 아마도 우리는 여전히 그를 오해했다고 말할 수 있을 것이다.그러나 그는 경고받은 바로 그 실마리를 계속 이어왔다; 이 도발이 행정부에 의해 용인된 것은 매우 유감스러운 일이다.67.194.202.113 (대화) 21:47, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 발리가 맞다.베이락 씨의 발언은 가식적일 수도 있고 그렇지 않을 수도 있지만, 나는 단순히 대화 페이지에 자신의 생각을 말한다는 이유로 누군가를 차단하는 것은 꺼린다.만약 그가 부적절한 편집을 토크페이지의 합의에 반대하여 기사에 밀어붙였다면 그건 좀 다른 것이겠지만, 만약 그가 단지 자신의 견해를 토크페이지에 제시하려고 한다면, 그것이 우리가 사람들이 논쟁에서 하기를 바라는 것이다.아무도 동의하지 않는다면, 음, 그를 무시하라. --엘론카 19:59, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 좋아, 전체 토크 페이지를 읽어봐.베이락은 분명히 의제를 추구하고 있다(기본적으로 그의 주장은 호메니가 먼 과거에 아랍의 조상을 가지고 있었고 이것이 그를 '이란'이 아닌 '아랍'으로 만든다는 것이다).이것이 왜 잘못된 것인지 지적하기 위한 다양한 시도가 있었다.그는 머리가 돌았다.그래서, 왜 그가 혼란스럽고 의제를 밀어붙이고 있다고 느끼는지 알 수 있다.그가 토크 페이지에 국한된 한 그냥 무시하는 게 어때?만약 그가 이 내용을 기사 내용에 반영되지 않게 밀어붙이기 시작했다면, 다시 돌아오라고?발리 최종 (토크) 16:13, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 헤이 67.xxx --
- 좋아, 이제 그만, 그는 파괴적인 호메이니 실을 더 밀어내기로 결정했다[57].이 시점에서 그를 막아라; 그에게서 더 이상의 트롤링과 바보같은 게임을 용인하는 것은 의미가 없다. 67.194.202.113 (대화) 09:01, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- DFT, 여러분.그는 대화 페이지에서 떠들어댈 수 있어, 그냥 무시해.주제에서 벗어난 경우 WP별로 제거하십시오.말하라. 그렇지 않으면 먹이지만약 그가 미래에 이런 것들을 기사에 싣기 시작한다면 그것은 훨씬 더 심각한 문제일 것이고 우리는 그것을 적극적으로 다룰 것이다.
- 솔직히 이 사람은 영어가 너무 서툴지만 여기서 편집하는 요점은 의문이다.위키피디아는 어학원이 아니다.그것 또한 개선되어야 한다.영어가 서투른 사람들은 그들이 시간을 재워볼 가치가 있다는 것을 증명할 필요가 있다.만약 그들이 가치 있는 콘텐츠를 기부하지 않는다면...
- 오래 전에, 멀리 멀리 떨어진 은하계에서, 나는...이상한... 문법의 많은 예들을 담고 있는 기사들을 러시아 편집자의 작품을 베끼는 데 많은 긴 날을 보냈다.하지만, 그 결과가 뛰어난 러시아 오페라 기사였기 때문에, 모든 사람들은 정말 행복했다.고생할 가치가 있다는 것을 우리에게 보여주는 것은 그리 어렵지 않아.모레스치 (대화) 20:49, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
긴급 - 페이지 이동 반달리즘 청소 필요
특수:기부금/레인롤러 - D.M.N. (토크) 11:30, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 특수:기부금/아버지_그리고리 - D.M.N. (토크) 11:31, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 알아, 그 개자식들을 추방하라구! Jouke Bersma 11:36, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 무슨 짓을 한 거야? Jouke Bersma 11:37, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
특수:기여금/Collett_Green - D.M.N. (토크) 11:51, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC
- 왜 자꾸 여기에 글을 올려?모두의 감시 목록에 올라오고 있어.우리 모두 그것을 볼 수 있고, 처리될 것이다.여기에 모든 흥정 반달들을 게시하는 것은 아무런 소용이 없다.반달들은 WP로 간다.어떤 경우에도 AIV.– Amicon (대화) 11:53, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- AIV는 일련의 경고를 받지 않은 반달리즘에 대해서는 다루지 않으며, 페이지 이동으로 이러한 종류의 반달리즘은 가능한 한 빨리 관리자에게 경고하는 것이 필수적이다.던컨힐 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 11분 (UTC)
- 나는 그곳에 있는 관리자들이 얼마나 많은 경고에 상관없이 어떤 페이지 이동 반달도 막을 것이라고 확신한다.거기서 처리하는 게 더 빠를 것 같아.–amicon 12:13, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 반달들이 충분한 경고를 받았을 것이라는 AIV에 대한 소개서를 다시 쓰시겠습니까?던컨힐 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 15분 (UTC)
- 우리는 위키피디아를 보호하기 위해 한 가지 또는 어떤 경고에도 조치를 취할 것이다.하지만 만약 우리가 그렇게 말한다면, 우리의 젊은 동료들 중 많은 사람들이 한 번 또는 한 번 경고한 후에 모든 반달들을 신고할 것이다.이런 일은 이미 어느 정도 일어나지만, 그 통지는 우리에게 사람들에게 상기시킬 무언가를 준다.이 경우에 필요한 것은 좀 상식적이다.➨ ➨ededvers❞a 달콤하고 부드러운 훌리건 12:18, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 반달들이 충분한 경고를 받았을 것이라는 AIV에 대한 소개서를 다시 쓰시겠습니까?던컨힐 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 15분 (UTC)
- 나는 그곳에 있는 관리자들이 얼마나 많은 경고에 상관없이 어떤 페이지 이동 반달도 막을 것이라고 확신한다.거기서 처리하는 게 더 빠를 것 같아.–amicon 12:13, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- AIV는 일련의 경고를 받지 않은 반달리즘에 대해서는 다루지 않으며, 페이지 이동으로 이러한 종류의 반달리즘은 가능한 한 빨리 관리자에게 경고하는 것이 필수적이다.던컨힐 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 11분 (UTC)
- "고속 페이지 이동 반달리즘이 아니라면, 보고하는 사람이 명백하다면, 나는 그 보고서에 대해 행동하지 않을 어떤 관리자도 모른다. - Mgm(talk) 12:25, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 경고가 충분하지 않아서 페이지 이동 반달 차단을 거부한 관리자는 관리자로서 적합하지 않을 것이라고 나는 생각한다.–amicon 12:28, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 그건 네가 거기서 말하는 끔찍한 일이야. 모든 사람들이 먼저 경고를 받고, 그 다음엔 우리 구역 24시간, 그 다음엔 41시간, 그 다음엔 48시간(2일), 그 다음엔 몇 주 혹은 몇 달이고 마지막 수단으로 누군가를 영구적으로 금지해야 해. Jouke Bersma 12:34, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 이 사람, 아니 오히려 무리의 사람들이 아니다.그들은 이런 종류의 기물 파손에 대한 길고 긴 역사를 가지고 있고, 시야에 가려져 있다. // 루스 12:38, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
WP:AIV는 그것을 시작하기에 좋은 곳이다.그들은 일반적으로 경험과 주어진 상황에 기초하여 어느 정도의 유연성을 적용한다.야구 버그 12:33, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- (편집 충돌):그럼 지시를 따르고, 범법자가 AIV에 대해 충분한 경고를 하지 않았음을 확인하고, "음, 이건 확실히 빨리 처리해야 할 필요가 있어, 알아, 내가 ANI에 갈게"라고 생각하는 편집자들은 비판을 받을 만한 공정한 게임이야?기물 파손 행위를 신속하게 처리하려고 애쓰는 편집자는 AIV에서 그가 들은 말을 믿으면 확실히 더 나은 대우를 받을 자격이 있다.던컨힐 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 12시 35분 (UTC)
- 문구는 아마도 더 명확해야 할 것이다.하지만 AIV와 자주 일하는 사람들은 전형적으로 그 점수를 안다.나는 명백한 공공 기물 파손으로 차단된 계좌에 경고가 없을 때 이름을 붙였다.일반적으로 IP 주소일 때 다중 경고 및 최근 활동 규칙을 시행할 가능성이 더 높다.그러나 그렇기 때문에 그들은 활동을 보여줄 수 있는 템플릿을 가지고 있기 때문에 행정관이 판단을 내릴 수 있다.AIV는 여전히 어떤 종류의 행동을 취하기에 가장 빠른 곳이다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 12시 45분, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그렇다고 해서 거기에 있는 지시를 액면 그대로 받아들이고 여기에 와서 보도하는 편집자들을 비난하는 것은 정당화되지 않는다.던컨힐 (대화) 13:01, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 나는 비판받는 사람을 보지 않고 오히려 그들이 더 적절한 포럼으로 지목된 것을 본다.악의는 어느 시점에서도 의도된 것이 아니었고, 누구를 "거친" 것처럼 보이게 하려는 내 의도도 아니었다.–amicon 13:06, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- "왜 자꾸 여기에 글을 올리니?"라고 말하는 것은 다른 곳에서 더 빠른 응답을 받을 수도 있다고 누군가에게 제안하는 건설적이거나 도움이 되는 방법이 아니다.던컨힐 (대화) 13:09, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 나는 단지 사용자들이 말하는 것처럼, 내 생각에, 꽤 경험이 많은 사람인지 궁금했을 뿐이다.그들이 여기에 글을 올린 것이 나를 놀라게 했다.그렇게 간단하다.AIV가 모든 종류의 반달들을 다루지 않는다고 잘못 진술하는 것은 내 생각에는 건설적이거나 도움이 되지 않는다고 생각한다. 왜냐하면 그들은 (페이지 이동 반달에 관한 것처럼) 필요할 때 경고 시스템과 상관없이 그 페이지에서 반달들을 차단하기 때문이다.–amicon 13:13, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- "왜 자꾸 여기에 글을 올리니?"라고 말하는 것은 다른 곳에서 더 빠른 응답을 받을 수도 있다고 누군가에게 제안하는 건설적이거나 도움이 되는 방법이 아니다.던컨힐 (대화) 13:09, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 나는 비판받는 사람을 보지 않고 오히려 그들이 더 적절한 포럼으로 지목된 것을 본다.악의는 어느 시점에서도 의도된 것이 아니었고, 누구를 "거친" 것처럼 보이게 하려는 내 의도도 아니었다.–amicon 13:06, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 그렇다고 해서 거기에 있는 지시를 액면 그대로 받아들이고 여기에 와서 보도하는 편집자들을 비난하는 것은 정당화되지 않는다.던컨힐 (대화) 13:01, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 문구는 아마도 더 명확해야 할 것이다.하지만 AIV와 자주 일하는 사람들은 전형적으로 그 점수를 안다.나는 명백한 공공 기물 파손으로 차단된 계좌에 경고가 없을 때 이름을 붙였다.일반적으로 IP 주소일 때 다중 경고 및 최근 활동 규칙을 시행할 가능성이 더 높다.그러나 그렇기 때문에 그들은 활동을 보여줄 수 있는 템플릿을 가지고 있기 때문에 행정관이 판단을 내릴 수 있다.AIV는 여전히 어떤 종류의 행동을 취하기에 가장 빠른 곳이다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 12시 45분, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
여기에 온 것에 대한 나의 항의.AIV는 관리자(adminstrator)에게 반달의 존재를 알리는 데만 사용된다.일단 그것들이 즉시 차단되면, 봇은 그것이 "완료된" 것처럼 AIV 페이지에서 그것들을 제거한다.그러나 페이지 이동 반달리즘과 함께 - 사용자가 AIV에 더 이상 있지 않음에도 불구하고 페이지 이동 반달리즘은 여전히 제자리에 있고 따라서 관리자들은 그것이 엄청난 페이지들에 행해진 것처럼 그것을 수정하기 위해 신속히 경고를 받아야 했다.나는 단지 공공 기물 파손 행위를 되돌리기 위해 사람들의 주의를 끌기 위해 여기에 글을 올린 것뿐이지, 그렇게 문제를 일으키기 위해서가 아니었다.AIV는 단지 공공 기물 반달리즘을 차단하는 역할만 할 뿐, 그들이 행한 페이지 이동 반달리즘을 되돌리는 역할은 하지 않는다.D.M.N. (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 전적으로 동의한다.이것은 AN/I에 가져오기에 완벽한 후보군.이 페이지들이 모두 누군가의 감시 목록에 있는 것은 아니며 이것은 빨리 정리되어야 할 것이다.프로톤크 (대화) 2008년 12월 8일 19:23 (UTC)
펑콕스
펑크박스(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 블록에서 갓 나온 것이다.이 블록은 잘못된 차트 데이터를 편집하여 다음과 같은 6개의 기사 그룹으로 묶은 결과,
편집 이력을 스캔하면 190.43.*.*.*.*에 따라 그가 로그인한 상태에서 익명 편집으로 왔다 갔다 하는 것을 볼 수 있다.
그래서, 지난 밤, 그 블록은 만료된다.그는 팬아트 커버를 올리고 일본 커버를 거짓으로 주장하는 것으로 저녁을 시작한다.나는 삭제 과정을 시작하고, 삭제하기 위해 이미지에 태그를 붙인다.내가 그곳에 있는 동안 차트가 의심스러워 보이고, 주변을 파헤치고, 오직 하나만이 좋은 것이라는 것을 발견하기 때문에, 나는 그것을 고치고 소스를 추가한다.
이제 재미는 그가 이미지 태그를 여러 번 제거한다는 것이다.그는 마지막 반달리즘 경고까지 하면서 펑키한 차트를 여러 번 복구한다.
나는 마침내 잠을 자게 되고, 내가 잠든 동안 그는 미요청 차트를 복구하고, 케이크 위에 아이싱처럼 이미지 삭제 태그를 다시 지우기 위해 애논으로 돌아온다.
—Kww(대화) 13:35, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 그의 행동에 대한 어떤 변화도 없지만, AngelOfSadness는 초기 이미지가 진짜일 수 있다는 증거를 발견했고, 단지 매우 불충분하고 검증하기 어렵다.—Kww(대화) 14:08, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
이 보고서에 대해 뭔가 납득할 수 없는 점이 있는가?나는 그것에 대한 무작용을 이해하는데 어려움을 겪고 있다.일반적으로, 명명된 계정과 익명 편집 사이를 왔다 갔다 하는 동안 잘못된 차트 정보에서 편집-워링을 위한 블록을 새로 생성하여 명명된 계정과 익명 편집 사이를 왔다 갔다 하는 동안 잘못된 차트 정보에서 편집-워링하는 동작으로 돌아가며 삭제 통지, com에서 편집-warring을 함께 한다.최종적인 반달리즘 경고가 즉각적인 차단을 초래한 후에 그렇게 하는 것으로 간주된다.대부분의 경우, 유일한 논쟁은 변명의 적절성 여부일 것이다.이 경우 보도는 너무 오래 앉아 있어 보고가 접수되는 동안 편집전에 복귀했고, 별다른 조치가 없었다.MBisanz는 문제 페이지를 반비례했지만, 펑크스는 여전히 차단되지 않은 채로 있다.—Kww(대화) 18:14, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
나는 이 토론을 가리키는 차단 메시지에 있는 메시지로 계정을 잠시 차단했다.IP로 계속 편집하면 블록 회피 양말로 차단할 수 있다. --NrDg 18:43, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
새 사용자에 의한 할당:오프투리오롭
새로운 사용자가 WP에서 계속 유지한 경우:PA는 경고에도 불구하고.이 사용자의 행동에 대해 주의하십시오.어제(사용자가 행정고시판에 게시한 적극적 편집자는 근거 없음에도 불구하고 공격적 편집자임을 알리는 게시물. 사실 그 반대는 다음과 같다: [58][59][60][61]).또한, 여기 다른 편집자와 토론하면서 비난을 했다.오늘 이 공격 라인 계속 (대화) 20:55, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 나는 NPA의 노골적인 위반을 보지 않는다.건배, –JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 21:12, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 계속 WP:주의사항에도 불구하고 AGF를 위반하고 당신은 문제가 없으십니까?
- 증거가 부족한 개인적 행동에 대한 비난. 심각한 고발은 심각한 증거를 필요로 한다. 증거는 종종 위키에서 제시된 차이와 연결의 형태를 취한다. 때때로 증거는 비공개로 유지되고 신뢰할 수 있는 사용자에게 제공된다.
- 무시한 채 관리 게시판에 게시: 이 페이지에 어떠한 종류의 비방도 게시하지 마십시오. 그리고 위키피디아의 공손함이나 인신공격 정책을 지독하게 위반하는 메시지는 제거된다는 점에 유의하십시오.Semitransgenic (대화) 21:26, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 선심을 갖지 않는 것과 NPA를 위반하는 것은 별개의 일이다.–JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 21:31, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 알았어, 내 실수야. 전에 이런 문제가 있었던 적이 없어. 별일 아니야. 그냥 나 말고 다른 사람이 사용자 행동에 대해 그를 바로 세우려고 하면 좋을 것 같아.만약 그에게 문제가 있다면 그는 내가 편집한 내용을 개인적으로 다루지 않아도 된다.Semitransgenic (대화) 21:42, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 선심을 갖지 않는 것과 NPA를 위반하는 것은 별개의 일이다.–JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 21:31, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 계속 WP:주의사항에도 불구하고 AGF를 위반하고 당신은 문제가 없으십니까?
사용자가 여기서 Semitransgenic(대화) 21:54, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC) 공격을 계속하고 있음
- 네 코멘트 고마워, 만약 그가 사건이 있다고 믿는다면 그는 적절한 장소로 사건을 가져갈 수 있어.Semitransgenic (대화) 22:33, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
사용자 토크 설명 관련
아들크프크 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
또 다른 사용자는 WP에서 이 의견을 언급했다.EAR 스레드, 그리고 나는 행정적인 시선을 요청하는 것이 신중할 수 있다고 생각했다.- —/Mendaliv//2¢Δ's 05:58, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 와우. {{uw-npa3}}}}라고 경고한 이유는..와우. 나는 '사망 위협은 어떤 식으로든 전혀 괜찮지 않다고 생각한다.' // 루스 06:05, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 사용자를 무한정 차단함.—αἰτίας•토론• 06:15, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 농담이 아니에요.와우, 크리스마스 포옹이 필요한데..- 아르카인()cast a spell 07:34, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 하지만 한 가지는 맞혔어선고 전 그의 최종 선고(즉, 변명의 여지가 없는 막힘)는 "현재로서는 그게 전부"였다.응. 야구 벅스 23:52, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 농담이 아니에요.와우, 크리스마스 포옹이 필요한데..- 아르카인()cast a spell 07:34, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
언빌 IP
내가 여기서 뛰어내릴 거면 고쳐줘.
IP 편집기 4.154.55.17(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)이 Talk:에서 편집을 시작했다.List_of_World_Wrestling_Entertainment_empersones와 단 두 번의 편집만으로 미개할 뿐만 아니라 최근 두 번의 금지를 받은 오레우스와 비슷한 편집 패턴을 가진 것 같다.나는 이미 IP의 대화 페이지에 그 행동에 대한 경고를 남겼다.IP는 몇 가지 기여만 있을 뿐 모두 금지된 당사자의 방식과 일치하는 것으로 보인다.관리자가 체크인을 요청하게 할 수 있을까 해서요. 유해 매트 20:14, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- Checkuser를 요청할 필요가 있다고 생각되면 WP로 이동하십시오.그러나 RFCU. WP:SSP는 아마도 이것을 위한 더 좋은 장소가 될 것이다.건배, –JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 21:14, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
####### a l. k. c o m
나와 적어도 한 명의 편집자는 "아직 책갈피에 책갈피를 채웠니?위키피디아의 리프데스크와 비슷한데, 형편없지 않다는 점만 빼면 말이다.<!--- B8파운드##P__>는 우리의 토크 페이지에 "AT"라는 제목 아래 "역전 반달리즘"이라는 편집 요약과 함께 게재되었다.932c". 내가 HTML 코멘트를 볼 수 있게 만들었는데, 우리의 토크 페이지에서는 육안으로 볼 수 없다.
예:User_talk:Davidwr, User_talk:제네모드
이 텍스트를 블랙리스트에 올릴 방법이 있는가?davidwr/(대화)/(논문)/(이메일) 04:06, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
- 여기 내가 본 또 다른 것이 있다[62].Grsz11 04:09, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
- 어젯밤에 두 번이나 내 토크 페이지에 나타났어.---발룬맨PoppaBalloon 04:14, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
- 몇 시간 전에 내 토크 페이지에 두 명이 있어–Juliancolton 04Cyclone:18, 2008년 12월 7일(UTC)
위키백과를 계속 살펴보십시오.프록시 탐지 열기 - 거기서 나타날 겁니다.MER-C 05:17, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
여기 관리자에 의해 차단된 또 다른 것이 있다: [63] 야구 벅스 08:28, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
- 지난 24시간 이내에 이 중 하나를 차단한 기억이 난다: 특별:기여/189.19.229.15. --Rschen7754 (T C) 20:31, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
그들은 전체 너비의 글자로 URL을 스푸핑하고 있다.블랙리스트에 올릴 수 있는 방법은 없지만 이 캐릭터 세트를 논하는 기사에 사용할 수 있도록 허용할 수 있는가? (실제로 빌어먹을 시그니처에 이 문자를 사용하는 사람들이 있을 것이다.) — 샬롯웹브 21:39, 2008년 12월 7일 (UTC)
버그 16597을 참조하십시오. MER-C 05:47, 2008년 12월 9일(UTC)
잠재적인 법적 문제?
사용자:68.192.195.183 템플릿 편집:템플릿:NJ_Sussex_County_Freeholders는 우리가 매일 보는 편집보다 훨씬 더 심각할 수 있다고 생각한다.편집자는 다음과 같은 내용을 게재했다.
- (편집 디프로 대체된 텍스트) 그웬 게일(토크) 01:29, 2008년 12월 9일(UTC)
편집을 되돌리고 사용자 토크 페이지에 메모를 남겼다.추가 조치가 필요한지 잘 모르겠고, 편집 내용이 심각할 가능성이 있어 이 글을 올린다.고마워! 2008년 12월 9일 01:10, 01:10 (UTC)
- 나는 이것이 위키피디아에 어떤 영향을 미칠 수 있는지 모르겠다.존 리브스 01:23, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
(ec) 이것이 디프이다.나는 이것이 위키백과 관련이 없는 것에 대해 매우 불만스러워하는 누군가가 비누복싱과 홍보를 추구하는 것에 지나지 않는다고 생각한다.소싱과 BLP 정책이 없는 점을 감안할 때 편집 내용을 되돌리는 것으로 충분했다.그웬 게일 (토크) 01:27, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
허, 방금 이걸 찾았어.매우 흥미롭다.어느 쪽이든 (대화) 01:39, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
NJ 헤럴드 기사와도 템플릿에 추가된 텍스트의 변경은 삭제해야 할 것이다.NJ 헤럴드 기사는 이 사건을 요약하고 있다.템플릿 편집자는 이 출처가 뒷받침할 수 없는 방대한 음모를 주장하고 있으며, 내가 추측해 볼 수 있는 것은 관련 개인의 단독 의견이다.앨런슨 (대화) 03:04, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
편집 전쟁 재시작을 방지하기 위한 타사 입력 요청
Hummus는 "Palestine"이라는 문구를 둘러싼 편집 전쟁이 있은 후 5일 전에 잠겨 있었다.나는 현대적인 상황과 관련하여 논란이 되는 용어로서 정의상 NPOV가 될 수 없다는 것을 근거로 여러 번 이것을 제거했다.소스에서 사용하기 때문에 NPOV 용어라는 주장과 함께 다시 삽입되었다.
기사가 잠긴 이후, 우리는 147Kb의 회람된 토크 페이지 토론을 했고, 정확히 아무 데도 가지 못했다; 3명의 편집자는 팔레스타인을 반드시 이용해야 한다고 주장하고 있고, 8명의 편집자는 타협이 필요하다고 제안했다.
그 기사는 12월 10일에 개봉될 예정이고, 나는 토크 페이지에 제3자의 의견이 대량으로 주입되지 않는 한 편집 전쟁이 재개될 것이라는 것을 절대적으로 의심하지 않는다.나는 WP가 다음과 같이 알고 있다.RFC는 이것을 하기 위한 표준 경로지만, 솔직히 RFC는 이와 같은 논쟁적인 분야에서는 작동하지 않는다. 왜냐하면 RFC가 게시되자마자, 토론에 참여한 모든 편집자들이 RFC를 갈기갈기 찢기 시작하고, 그리고 나서 외부 입력은 거의 받지 않기 때문이다.나는 또한 상황을 감시하기 위해 관리자 입력이 필요하다고 생각한다.건배, пﮟოεի 57 57 17:54, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 내가 이해하기로는, 전쟁은 사실 "이스라엘"이라는 단어에 관한 것으로, 사람들/한 명의 편집자가 이스라엘이 존재하지 않는다고 말한다(내가 전에 들은 바는 아니지만 그들의 요점을 알 수 있다), 논쟁의 여지가 있고 정의상 NPOV가 될 수 없기 때문에 제거되었다.그냥 말해:) 스티키파킨 18:31, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 이스라엘 섹션과 "팔레스타인" 대 "팔레스타인 영토"에 관한 또 다른 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있는 것 같다.하지만 나는 "이것은 논란의 여지가 있는 용어고 정의상 NPOV가 될 수 없다"라는 개념에 대해 궁금하다.이것이 어디선가 실제 정책에서 비롯된 것인가, 아니면 숫자57의 해석인가.그러한 논리는 아파르트헤이트 벽, 대만, 이슬람교, 또는 일부 당사자가 이의 존재나 사용에 반대하는 어떤 다른 용어나 구절의 사용을 금지하는 것처럼 보일 것이다.Tarc (토크) 18:41, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 상식이 그러한 문구를 사용하는 것이 적절하지 않다고 지시하는 경우 그러한 문구의 사용은 배제된다고 믿는다; 관련 분쟁의 맥락에서 논의되어야 하지만, 다른 비충돌 관련 기사에 사용하는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다(예를 들어, 일부에서는 장벽을 A로 언급하고 있다는 사실을 논하는 것이 적절할 것이다).이스라엘 요르단강 서안 장벽 기사나 이스라엘-팔레스타인 분쟁 기사도 마찬가지지만 베들레헴 기사에 '이스라엘 인종차별 장벽은 도시의 북쪽으로 달린다'는 식의 내용을 삽입하는 것은 적절치 않을 것이다.아무튼 신선한 피가 필요한 만큼 토크페이지에서 토론하는 것은 환영한다.пﮟოьիի 57 18:46, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 이스라엘 섹션과 "팔레스타인" 대 "팔레스타인 영토"에 관한 또 다른 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있는 것 같다.하지만 나는 "이것은 논란의 여지가 있는 용어고 정의상 NPOV가 될 수 없다"라는 개념에 대해 궁금하다.이것이 어디선가 실제 정책에서 비롯된 것인가, 아니면 숫자57의 해석인가.그러한 논리는 아파르트헤이트 벽, 대만, 이슬람교, 또는 일부 당사자가 이의 존재나 사용에 반대하는 어떤 다른 용어나 구절의 사용을 금지하는 것처럼 보일 것이다.Tarc (토크) 18:41, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
토크 페이지에서 147Kb의 토론에 몇 번 발을 담근 나는 그곳에서 "나는 으깬 병아리에 대한 기사가 그렇게 불온하고 혐오스러운 이야기를 불러일으키는 것을 보고 깜짝 놀랐다"는 그웬 게일의 견해에 동의해야 한다.칠리나 피자에 대한 편집 전쟁이 어떤 열정을 불러일으킬지 궁금할 뿐이다. -- llywrch (토크) 20:17, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
- 나도 몰라, 나도 눈을 깜빡이고 그들이 말하는 '휴머스'라고도 불리는 분쟁지역이 아닌지 확인해야 했어.스티키파킨 00:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
이 지역의 험무스는 언덕만큼 오래되었다; '엄마, 깃발, 애플파이'가 다른 국적으로 따듯하고 흐릿하게 여겨질 정도로 비슷한 정도로 레반틴으로 여겨질 수 있다.만약 문제가 이 문장과 관련된다면(즉, 휴머스는 이스라엘에서 일상 식사의 공통적인 부분이며 이스라엘 방위군 쿡북에서도 언급하고 있다.) '가 되어버렸다'로 바꾸는 것이 열을 낮출 수 있다고 믿는다.그것은 또한 다른 증명력으로 같은 지역에 있는 휴머스의 오래된 뿌리를 암시하면서, 이스라엘의 현재 요리 습관을 정확하게 반영할 것이다.편집의 열기를 완전히 이해하지 못하는 사람들에게, 다른 사람의 요리의 흡수는 한 가지다; 남은 모든 것의 흡수는 여전히 뜨겁게 논쟁되고 있다; 역사에 기초하여, 사람은 다른 것으로 변모하는 경향이 있다.그게 도움이 되길 바래.캐주얼Observer'48 (대화) 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
이 실을 읽는 편집자들이 이해할 수 있도록 하기 위해서만, (라임) 편집 전쟁은 (본문의 어떤 영역에서든 팔레스타인이라는 명사를 쓸 것인가 하는 문제만 남았다.)그 논의는 지금까지 150kB 이상으로 쏟아졌다.새로운 전망은 정말로 도움이 될 것이다.그웬 게일 (토크) 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC) 13:53
관리자 가장하기
배경: AN/I 아카이브의 이전 스레드.
사용자:StevanBuxton & 사용자:BuxtonStevan은 실제 관리 사용자를 가장한다.StephenBuxton, 그리고 무한 블록이 필요하다.가장은 오늘 이 메시지를 남겼고, 되돌아왔다가 다시 여기에 메시지를 남겼다.
⋙-베레앙-헌터—2008년 12월 8일 (ii) 22:43, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
차단된 팁토티 22:52, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- 그냥 내가 ip의 사람들이 어떻게 계정을 만들거나 로그아웃을 편집하지 못하는지에 대해 말하는 것이 웃긴다고 생각했을 뿐이다.그러나 그들이 분명히 깨닫지 못한 것은 사람들이 계좌도 요청할 수 있다는 것이다.—Kirachinmoku에 의해 추가된 서명되지 않은 코멘트 준비 (토크 • 기여) 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
사탄로이드의 경고와 설명 후 계속되는 인신공격
계속되는 인신공격
여기 저기서 그는 모욕적인 농담을 하고 그들을 "극단주의자"라고 부르며 다른 편집자들을 공격했다.여기서 그는 자신의 미개한 행동에 대해 알게 되었고 인신공격에 대한 또 다른/최종적인 경고를 받았지만 여전히 편집 요약을 여기저기서 계속했다.
소크푸페트리 및 반달리즘
종교적 혐오 발언
또 한 편집자는 사탄로이드가 시크 구루의 아들들의 죽음에 대해 종교적인 발언을 한 것에 격분했고, 그는 나에게 보고서를 제출하기 위한 위키백과 과정에 대한 도움을 구하려고 그것에 대해 알려주었다.-RoadAhead=Discuss= 07:18, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
내 대체 계정
안녕, 내 대체 계정의 암호를 잊어버렸어. 사용자:대륙간 탄도미사일.계정 사용자:대륙간 탄도미사일은 안보상의 이유로 무기한 차단된다.Otolemur crassicaudatus (토크) 12:01, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 완료. 계정에 사용 가능한 전자 메일이 없어 사용자가 암호를 복구할 수 없음.사용자 및 사용자 대화 페이지의 편집 내역은 OC가 소유자임을 명확히 하여 보안 목적을 위해 OC의 요청에 따라 차단된다.JodyB talk 12:13, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 고마워. Otolemur crassicaudatus (토크) 12:17, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
애니메/MGM 페이커
안녕하십니까? 이전에 위키피디아에서 보도한 애니메/MGM의 페이커:관리자_noticeboard/IncidentArchive481#Vandal_on_118.137.x.x.x_range가 돌아왔고, 이번에는 125.161.143.56에서 왔다.나는 APNIC whois 서버에 접속할 수 없지만, 프로빙을 해보니 적어도 /16인 것 같다.118.137.0.0/17 블록에 대한 불만이 비교적 적었기 때문에, 나는 이것 또한 차단하고 필요에 따라 개인들을 처리하고 싶은 유혹을 받고 있다. --fvw* 07:24, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 좋은 생각인 것 같은데.에드워드 321 (대화) 2008년 12월 9일 13:59, (UTC)
- whois 서버가 백업되고 범위는 125.155.255.0/18이다.NeoChaosX (대화, 편집) 18:12, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
사용자:WillOakland가 사용자임을 인정했다:가즈파초
내가 공정했다면 지금 막았을 텐데, 다른 사람이 결정할 수 있는 건 아니야.건배, 카스리버 (토크 · 기여) 07:55, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 분명 좋은 기여가 많았는데 1년 정도 지났어그는 그것에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있지 않다.나는 지역사회가 토론을 금지하는 것을 보고 싶지만, 나는 그를 다시 오게 하고 싶다.ThuranX (대화) 13:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
나는 커뮤니티의 금지 토론도 볼 수 없다고 본다. 그는 양말 퍼퍼트리와 파괴적인 편집 때문에 막혔지만, 그 전에 그는 훌륭한 기고자였고, 윌로아클랜드의 그의 편집은 논쟁의 여지가 없다.나는 그가 방해받지 않는 한 그가 편집하게 하는 것에 동의한다.비밀 14:55, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
사용자:업다운
안녕. 사용자 업다운과 나는 ITV1 브랜드 이름을 사용하는 것에 대해 약간의 논쟁을 벌여왔다.전체 토론은 그의 사용자 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있다.ITV1은 영국, 웨일스, 남부 스코틀랜드, 채널 아일랜드의 브랜드 이름일 뿐이고, 북아일랜드에서는 STV가 사용되고 있기 때문에 일부 프로그램은 ITV1이 아닌 ITV에서 방송된다고 그의 편집을 번복했다.채널 3은 전체적으로 ITV로 알려져 있지만, 사용자들은 어쩐지 내 의견에 동의하지 않는다.좀 도와줄래?GMc (토크) 12:38, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 이것은 기사 토크페이지에서 이루어져야 하는 논의로서, 편집자들 간의 의견 일치를 얻거나, 물론 참고가 가능하다면 둘 다 기사에 포함될 수 있다.►BMW◄ 2008년 12월 9일 13:23 (UTC)
- 나는 왜 이것이 이 게시판에 올려졌는지 혼란스럽다.맨 위에는 "이 페이지는 콘텐츠 문제에 대한 우리의 분쟁 해결 과정의 일부가 아니다"라고 분명히 적혀 있는데, 이것이 바로 기본이다.당신이 내가 부적절한 방식으로 행동했다고 비난하지 않는 한(등, 여기에 보고되어야 할 것은 맨 위에 있는 리스트 참조), 여기서는 논의할 것이 없다.--업다운(토크) 15:12, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
204.120.34.173으로부터의 중단
IP 주소 204.120.34.173은 거의 전적으로 업무 중단을 위해 사용되는 것으로 보이며 이전에 차단된 적이 있다.최근의 경고와 지속적인 붕괴를 감안할 때 또 다른 차단이 적절할 수 있다.GeneralBelli (대화) 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 내가 잘못 알고 있었다는 것을 깨달았다. - 사과.GeneralBelli (대화) 2008년 12월 9일 15:13, UTC)
뻔한 내용 말하기
관리자가 WP:GHBH에 따라 Oblarity를 수행해야 한다고 생각한다. Special: 참조:기부금/자세한 내용은 뻔한 내용 저장. --Hans Adler (토크) 15:41, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 그래도 손버릇이 나쁜건가?나는 이 계정이 논의하기 위해 만들어진 주제가 논란이 되고 있기 때문에 이것이 합법적인 처벌이라는 좋은 사례가 만들어질 수 있다고 생각한다.셰필드스틸TALK 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
82.198.211.120 상수 반달리즘
최종 경고 및 사용자 보고에도 불구하고:82.209.211.120은 템플릿 파손을 중지하는 것을 거부한다.인포박스 디스코 음악
사용자에 의해 이미 차단됨:Toddst1. 16:22, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
사용자:Kikbguy
누군가 나를 불행에서 벗어나게 해주고 킥보이가 부탁한 언블록(토크 · 기여)을 검토해 줄 수 있을까.(또한 위키백과:양말 인형/Kikbguy 및 WP 의심:ANI#공용 IP를 사용하여 차단된 편집기의 개인 공격) --ZimZalaBim 02:47, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
- Kikbguy가 차단 해제 과정을 위반하려고 하기 때문에 나는 Kikbguy의 토크 페이지를 보호했다는 것을 알아두십시오.나는 토크 페이지와 보호 하위 페이지 내에 그 정도의 메시지를 남겼다.행운을 빈다.--VS 03:03, 2008년 12월 8일 (UTC)
(블록 검토 시 해결된 태그 배치. --ZimZalaBim 04:24, 2008년 12월 8일(UTC)
해결되지 않음.사용자들은 다양한 AfD 토론회에 재진입하기 위해 계속해서 여러 개의 양말을 만들고, 다른 편집자들을 상대로 허위 고발을 하는 등.최신은 Kikbguy2(토크+ · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 태그 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그 · CheckUser)이다.이 양말은 내가 직접 막아도 될까?AfD 논의를 반보호할 수 있을까?이것을 멈추게 할 만한 것은? --ZimZalaBim 01:05, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
사용자:자드(again)
이 사용자는 WP 위반으로 이미 AN/I ([64] 참조)로 이송되었다.UP#NOT는 자신의 토크 페이지에서 낙태에 대한 극구적인 발언을 함으로써 낙태에 대한 다섯 명의 편집자의 충고를 무시했다.그의 사용자 페이지는 그가 WP:3RR을 위반하고 난 후 보호되었지만, 그는 더 장황한 진술을 하기 위해 돌아왔다. (장구적인 진술을 보이지 않게 만드는 그의 기이한 전술은 이미 논의되었고, 눈살을 찌푸리게 했다.)그동안 자신에게 주어진 온갖 충고를 무시해 왔기 때문에, 나는 그의 토크페이지에서 시간을 낭비하기보다는 AN/I에게 바로 이것을 전달하고 있다.코스메틱 라떼 (토크) 03:31, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC
- 그 페이지는 지금 내 감시 목록에도 올라 있다.컴퓨터가 감염되지 않길 바랄 뿐이야야구벅스What's up, Doc? 03:36, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 나는 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 생각한다(이전 WP:ANI/Zahd talks will believe this)는 사람들이 내 개인적인 견해에 반대하기 때문에 나에게 달려드는 것인데, 나는 분명히 말한다.사람들이 언급했던 정책들은 내가 전혀 위반하지 않았기 때문에 예전처럼 지금 실제로 적용되지 않는다.텍스트는 사실 편집 모드에서만 표시되며, 편집 모드에서만 볼 수 있는 내 사용자 페이지의 내용을 누가 신경 쓰겠는가?확실히 이곳에는 낙태를 사랑하고 다른 사람들이 가능한 한 많은 낙태를 하도록 격려하는 사람들이 있으며, 이 견해는 사람들이 그렇게 공개적으로 말하지 않더라도 위키피디아에 꽤 잘 나타나 있는 것 같다.반면에 나는 다른 관점을 가지고 있는데, 하나는 공공연히 핍박을 받는다.내 사용자 페이지에 있는 네 줄의 작은 텍스트(숨겨진 것, 그 이하)를 가지고 나는 선택-이슈트들이 내 사용자 페이지에 있는 그 선들에 대해 악취를 풍기려고 하는 등, 지구 전체에 걸쳐 분노의 분노를 불러일으킬 수 있을 것으로 보인다.나는 진실을 말하는 것으로 핍박을 받는 것이 소름끼치게 느껴질 것이다, 만약 내가 대신 그것이 편향된, "선택-ist," 반동-ness. -자흐드 (대화) 03:59, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 당신의 행동은 주제와 상관없이 고전적인 트롤링 행동과 일치한다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 04:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 특정 정치적 신념 때문에 지옥에서 불탈 것이라는 암시가 있는 모든 종류의 사용자 페이지 자료는 매우 부적절하다.그만해.아이스 콜드 맥주 (토크) 04:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 그래, 하지만 이건 내 토크 페이지야 숨겨진 텍스트고 WP를 위반하는 건 아니야사용자. 나 자신의 개인적인 신념에 대해 진술하는 것은 말할 것도 없고, 정말 잘못된 것은 없다.얼음은, 결코 그 네 개의 작은 선들이 "특정 정치적 믿음을 위해 지옥에서 타버릴 것"이라는 것을 의미하지는 않았다.믿음을 가지고 있기 때문에 아무도 그들의 영원한 끝을 찾지 못한다.반면에 그러한 신념에 따라 행동하는 사람들은 그렇게 한다.분명하고 분명한 방법으로 그렇게 절대적으로 진실된 것을 진술하지 않는 것은 악의 면전에서 침묵하는 것이 될 것이다.그 네 줄의 작은 글씨를 쓰는 것은 누군가가 진정으로 끔찍한 실수를 범하지 않도록 스스로를 구하게 할 수도 있다.이제 그게 정보에 관한 거지? - 자흐드 (대화) 04:17, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 특정 정치적 신념 때문에 지옥에서 불탈 것이라는 암시가 있는 모든 종류의 사용자 페이지 자료는 매우 부적절하다.그만해.아이스 콜드 맥주 (토크) 04:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 당신의 행동은 주제와 상관없이 고전적인 트롤링 행동과 일치한다.야구 버그What's up, Doc? 04:08, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 나는 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 생각한다(이전 WP:ANI/Zahd talks will believe this)는 사람들이 내 개인적인 견해에 반대하기 때문에 나에게 달려드는 것인데, 나는 분명히 말한다.사람들이 언급했던 정책들은 내가 전혀 위반하지 않았기 때문에 예전처럼 지금 실제로 적용되지 않는다.텍스트는 사실 편집 모드에서만 표시되며, 편집 모드에서만 볼 수 있는 내 사용자 페이지의 내용을 누가 신경 쓰겠는가?확실히 이곳에는 낙태를 사랑하고 다른 사람들이 가능한 한 많은 낙태를 하도록 격려하는 사람들이 있으며, 이 견해는 사람들이 그렇게 공개적으로 말하지 않더라도 위키피디아에 꽤 잘 나타나 있는 것 같다.반면에 나는 다른 관점을 가지고 있는데, 하나는 공공연히 핍박을 받는다.내 사용자 페이지에 있는 네 줄의 작은 텍스트(숨겨진 것, 그 이하)를 가지고 나는 선택-이슈트들이 내 사용자 페이지에 있는 그 선들에 대해 악취를 풍기려고 하는 등, 지구 전체에 걸쳐 분노의 분노를 불러일으킬 수 있을 것으로 보인다.나는 진실을 말하는 것으로 핍박을 받는 것이 소름끼치게 느껴질 것이다, 만약 내가 대신 그것이 편향된, "선택-ist," 반동-ness. -자흐드 (대화) 03:59, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- (갈등 편집) 여기서 어떤 관련성이 있는지에 대한 그 횡설수설적인 비난의 유일한 대목은 "사람들이 언급했던 정책들은 내가 어떤 정책을 위반하지 않았기 때문에 전에 그랬던 것처럼 지금은 실제로 적용되지 않는다"는 것이다.WP:UP#NOT는 '위키피디아와 관계없는 극성문'을 금지하고 있으며, '자흐드 이름이면 면제된다'거나 '보이지 않는 문장으로 극성을 숨겨서 이 가이드라인을 슬그머니 돌아다닐 수 있다'는 말은 하지 않는다.시스템 게임을 그만 해.그것은 파괴적이고 완전히 짜증난다.우주 라떼 (토크) 04:11, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 그것은 그 대사들이 전혀 하지 않는 "특히, 편집자나 사람들의 집단을 공격하거나 비방하는 진술"을 금지한다.그것은 단순히 샐리의 이야기를 보여주며, 아무도 샐리가 되고 싶어하지 않는다고 믿어줘. -자드 (토크) 04:17, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 사람들이 지옥에서 불탈 거라고 말하는 건 그들을 비방하는 게 아니야?진짜, 그만 좀 걸어.우주 라떼 (토크) 04:20, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 당신은 친정치가들이 지옥에서 불탈 것이라고 말하고 있는 것이다.그것이 어떻게 "사람들의 편집자 모임"이 아니겠는가?만약 이런 행동이 계속된다면, 당신은 차단될 것이다.아이스 콜드 맥주 (토크) 04:22, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 친위대는 지옥에서 타지 않는다. 너무 많을 것이다.반면에, 낙태를 저지르는 사람들은 그렇게 한다.내가 실제로 내 사용자 페이지에 그것을 표시했다면, 그 코멘트는 이미 길을 잃은 사람들을 향한 것이 아니라, 오히려 아직 그런 실수를 하지 않은 사람들을 향한 것일 것이다.정보가 절약된다. -Zahd (대화) 04:30, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- PS: 야구는 내 사용자 페이지에 있는 "신이 있다"라는 문구와 문제가 있는 것 같아.정말 이유를 모르겠다. -자흐드 (대화) 04:31, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 위키피디아는 당신의 비누 상자가 아니다.다른 곳에서 전도하십시오.그리고 명시적으로 제거 요청을 받은 진술의 종류를 숨기는 것은 게임과 위키와잉이다. // 루스 04:35, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 그것은 그 대사들이 전혀 하지 않는 "특히, 편집자나 사람들의 집단을 공격하거나 비방하는 진술"을 금지한다.그것은 단순히 샐리의 이야기를 보여주며, 아무도 샐리가 되고 싶어하지 않는다고 믿어줘. -자드 (토크) 04:17, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- (갈등 편집) 여기서 어떤 관련성이 있는지에 대한 그 횡설수설적인 비난의 유일한 대목은 "사람들이 언급했던 정책들은 내가 어떤 정책을 위반하지 않았기 때문에 전에 그랬던 것처럼 지금은 실제로 적용되지 않는다"는 것이다.WP:UP#NOT는 '위키피디아와 관계없는 극성문'을 금지하고 있으며, '자흐드 이름이면 면제된다'거나 '보이지 않는 문장으로 극성을 숨겨서 이 가이드라인을 슬그머니 돌아다닐 수 있다'는 말은 하지 않는다.시스템 게임을 그만 해.그것은 파괴적이고 완전히 짜증난다.우주 라떼 (토크) 04:11, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
나는 방금 자드(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)에게 3일간의 휴가를 주었다.아이스 콜드 맥주 (토크) 04:36, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 그는 3일 후에 부활할 것이다.어쩐지 낯이 익다야구 버그What's up, Doc? 04:47, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 누가 낙태를 좋아할까?필요성을 받아들이는 사람들, 여성의 선택의 자유를 믿는 사람들, 그런 일이 일어나지 않기를 바라지만 선택이 가능해야 한다는 것을 인식하는 사람들, 그리고 그것을 의료 절차로 보는 사람들이 있다...그러나 낙태를 즐거운 경험으로, 축하 행사로서, 또는 승리로서 장려하는 사람들이 있다고는 생각할 수 없다.만약 있다면, 그들은 그들의 낙태 반대론자의 관점을 추적하는 사람들만큼 WP에 달갑지 않다.자드 얘기가 나와서 말인데, 나는 그가 그의 사용자 페이지에 있는 샐리를 알고 있다고 믿지 않는다. - 그는 성과 우편번호를 제공할 수 있는가?LessEnard vanU (대화) 21:23, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
영국 섬의 역사 - 잘라내기 및 붙여넣기 동작
영국 섬과 대영제국의 역사에서 움직임을 자르고 붙여 전쟁 편집. -- 페트리 크론 (토크) 07:50, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
나는 세 페이지를 완전히 보호했고, 편집 경고는 그렇게 하는 방법이 아니야.나는 너희 둘 다 3rrr을 차단하고 싶었지만, 나는 동의 없이 페이지를 옮기려는 다른 사용자라는 것을 알아차렸다.토크 페이지에서 그 움직임에 대한 공감대를 형성하도록 노력하라.비밀 15:02, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 나는 어떤 관리자들이 반응하는데 얼마나 오랜 시간이 걸렸는지 알 수 있었다.이것은 합의나 의견의 결여가 아니다; 기사 내용의 오려내기 및 붙여넣기 동작은 GFDL을 위반하는 것이며, 따라서 모두가 동의했더라도 받아들일 수 없는 행동이다.여기서의 문제에 관해서는, 나는 전혀 입장이 없다.그 기사는 내가 몇 년 전에 한 행동 때문에 우연히 내 감시 목록에 올랐다.7,641바이트를 콘텐츠에서 삭제하는 편집은 정밀 조사를 보장한다. -- Petri Krohn (대화) 18:48, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
토크:버락 오바마
69.235.52.195(대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 여기 대통령 당선자의 기사 토크 페이지에 다소 어린 시절의 "나는 그를 죽이고 싶다!"라는 글을 올렸다.이 물건이 그냥 바보 같은 반달리즘으로 치부된 것인지 아니면 혹시나 해서 비밀경호국에 보고해야 하는 것인지는 확실치 않아 그래서 여기로 가지고 와야겠다고 생각했다.Tarc (대화) 2008년 12월 9일 15시 12분 (UTC)
- WP:DENY 15:42, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- 위키피디아를 짧게 팔지 마라.여기서 팁을 많이 받을 수 있을 거야야구 버그 18:35, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
나는 당분간 주소를 차단했다.¤~페르시아 시인 갈 20:42, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
강연에서의 갈등은 다음과 같이 말했다.스탠리 마이어의 물 연료 전지
"안녕하십니까, 워터 연료전지 기사에서 일하려고 하는데.하지만 나는 계속 괴롭힘을 당한다.토론토크페이지(아카이브 5)만 보면 된다.당신은 웃음 섞인 말들을 알아차릴 것이다.사실, 만약 당신이 나의 사용자 토크 페이지를 본다면, 당신은 몇몇 불쾌한 템플릿들을 볼 수 있을 것이다.그들은 정말로 전체 과정에 모순된다.한편으로는 규칙적으로 대화를 계속하라지만 다른 한편으로는 내가 하려는 것이다!!!사실 익명의 IP가 이 기사의 토크 페이지에서 이 문제를 해결하려고 하는 대화를 전가했다...사용자 대화 페이지로 바로 이동하십시오.아직 이 ANI 불평에 대한 통지를 받지 못한 사용자 Verbal은 토론을 계속하기 위해 변경 사항을 되돌렸다.그 표현은 다양한 수준에서 나오지만 가장 중요한 것은 사용자가 나의 지적에 부사로 영향을 미치고 목표하는 불쾌한 패턴을 가지고 있다는 생각에서 온다.패턴은 필수적이야, "내가 주제에서 벗어났다는 것을 말하라...내용 삭제 또는 숨기기 및 모욕적인 템플리트 삽입위키피디아에서의 내 경험을 상당히 불쾌하게 만들고 있고, 솔직히 내가 편집을 하지 못하게 하기 때문에 두렵다.(내가 이 글을 올리면서도) 행정관들이 어떤 생각을 할지 궁금하다.실제로 토크 페이지의 이력을 살펴보면, 내가 "포럼이 아니다" 템플릿을 추가하여 토크 페이지의 일부 템플릿 스팸을 했던 것이 되돌아온 것을 알 수 있을 것이다.짜증나는 템플릿으로 적어도 5번은 말했기 때문에 모욕적이다!!!이 반박은, 나는 특별히 새로운 섹션의 개발에 관한 것이라고 믿는다.기사에 대해 논함하지만, 우리는 동의하지 않는 것 같아!기사의 토크 페이지에서 주제가 아닌 나를 (개인적으로) 다루었기 때문에 선을 벗어난 기존 논평과 달리, 이 경우 외부 논평은 크게 감사할 것으로 보인다. --CyclePat (대화) 16:47, 2008년 12월 9일 (UTC)
- Ah! Nevermind. We'll let things cool off a little and see what happens. In the mean time, again, outside comments on my conduct are welcome here. --CyclePat (talk) 16:55, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Frjohnwhiteford's edits in Patriarch Alexy II of Russia
- The designated user's recent multiple edits, in an utterly unwarranted (not even explained in the WP terms) fashion, have persistently removed relevant, perfectly legitimate sourced material from the lead (the BBC's balanced assessment aptly sums up the person's career record that fits into the lead just fine) -- See [66], [67] as well as this, which adds to the user's record of engaging in counter-productive edit wars.Muscovite99 (talk) 21:39, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Category:American tax evaders
There's an IP address 72.79.127.188 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who insists on trying to add Al Franken to that category, which in itself looks to be a BLP violation and POV-pushing, especially for people who have presumably never been convicted for it. I'd like to hear other opinions on this matter. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- That's an awfully specific category, and it would seem conviction for tax evasion would be an absolute necessity to being placed in it. --GoodDamon 17:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes. He had added Keith Olbermann to it also, which I reverted. It could be a reasonable category for convicts, but adding Franken and Olbermann is some sort of POV-push and BLP violation unless they were actually convicted of it. The IP is also at 3RR now. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 17:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I just about sat on a thumbtack on my chair this morning. I saw it just in time. Does this make me a convicted tacks-evader? ►BMW◄ 17:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, no, no, this is all about Darth Vader's sideline business on Alderaan: Taxi Vader. I've been told by highly reliable sources he was keeping two sets of books and when one of his managers began blackmailing him over it, he blew up the whole planet and collected the insurance. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- He must have studied under Rod Blagojevich. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- No, no, no, this is all about Darth Vader's sideline business on Alderaan: Taxi Vader. I've been told by highly reliable sources he was keeping two sets of books and when one of his managers began blackmailing him over it, he blew up the whole planet and collected the insurance. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was going to say it is ok without a conviction IF the person so labelled was on the record as not paying or avoiding taxes; but decided that even if they did, "tax evaders" has a POV/criminal spin. So even if Franken/Olbermann were on record as being a person who refused to pay taxes because they thought it was unconstitutional or something, that doesn't make them tax evaders until convicted.---BalloonmanPoppaBalloon 20:40, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Curiously, Willie Nelson was not in that category. In any case, I reported the IP for 3RR and BLP violation, WP:AIV. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 21:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Admin issued a 24-hour block on the IP. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 21:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- on a related now, is there au article that involves people like tax prostestors who dont pay taxes out of protest but havent actually been convicted yet? that doe!Smith Jones (talk) 01:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)snt
- Admin issued a 24-hour block on the IP. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 21:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Curiously, Willie Nelson was not in that category. In any case, I reported the IP for 3RR and BLP violation, WP:AIV. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 21:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I just about sat on a thumbtack on my chair this morning. I saw it just in time. Does this make me a convicted tacks-evader? ►BMW◄ 17:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes. He had added Keith Olbermann to it also, which I reverted. It could be a reasonable category for convicts, but adding Franken and Olbermann is some sort of POV-push and BLP violation unless they were actually convicted of it. The IP is also at 3RR now. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 17:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- You know, just when my faith in human nature is somewhat shredded after all the brou-ha-ha this weekend, along comes a trusted voice who tells it like it is. Smith Jones, keep on chooglin', after all, you hit the nail on the head] whether it wants to be hit or not. --Rodhullandemu 01:20, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- you're maturity is mos t appreciated :D -- anyway, can you answer my quesiton re: the article or category for tax protesters in general? i doub ttha tAl franken or Keith eOlberman feit into this arcteogry but I am sure that there are some avowed tax protestors who hva enot been convicted of the legal crime of ta x evaisonSmith Jones (talk) 01:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I see your keyboard is still messed up. They just don't make those TRS-80's like they used to. If someone is a tax protestor but has not been charged with tax evasion, then technically they have not committed a crime. There is no law against "protesting" taxes. That's called "freedom of speech". Failure to pay taxes? That's another story. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 01:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- thats what im talking about. im not saying that atx protestation is a cime or anything; im just aksing whether or not we have a categoryi on it or not. i am sure that we should but i am dont remember exaclty what it was called. Smith Jones (talk) 02:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I see your keyboard is still messed up. They just don't make those TRS-80's like they used to. If someone is a tax protestor but has not been charged with tax evasion, then technically they have not committed a crime. There is no law against "protesting" taxes. That's called "freedom of speech". Failure to pay taxes? That's another story. Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 01:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- you're maturity is mos t appreciated :D -- anyway, can you answer my quesiton re: the article or category for tax protesters in general? i doub ttha tAl franken or Keith eOlberman feit into this arcteogry but I am sure that there are some avowed tax protestors who hva enot been convicted of the legal crime of ta x evaisonSmith Jones (talk) 01:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Note, I have nominated the affected category for a rename. The discussion is here. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Am I seeing things, or am I just mad?
Three hours of fascinated clicking on Wikipedia, and I come across User_talk:East718 and what I think is an image behind the Wikipedia icon up top. Looks like a buncha of green A's inside a green box. Tried clicking on it, no dice, looked at editing the talk page; um, better not muck it up before I do something bad. So what am I seeing, or not seeing?--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 23:50, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- You are seeing it alright. It would be image adding via this page. Not sure what the many A's mean, but that is where it came from. Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 23:55
- And the image itself is here. –JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 01:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- uncyclopedia:AAAAAAAAA! may be of note. – Luna Santin (talk) 01:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- AAAAAAAAAAA! --Akhilleus (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. GJC 04:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- AAAAAAAAAAA! --Akhilleus (talk) 03:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- uncyclopedia:AAAAAAAAA! may be of note. – Luna Santin (talk) 01:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- And the image itself is here. –JuliancoltonTropicalCyclone 01:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
BiH ethnic maps and data
Can somebody,please, take a look on the things which goes on onto the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rjecina/Bosnian_census . It is about few ethnic maps and data of BiH in a discussion between me and user Laz17.
There exists 3 maps without valid copywrite rights [68][69][70] and which should be deleted [71][72].
Also there are 2 another maps, which I made and which user Laz17 thinks they should be deleted. He has some data which differs from BiH 1991 census [73]and calls on "cadastar map" which is not avabile to check. In this long discussion [74] I think that I showed good intention and will to cooperation to change any possible error on those maps. However that is going in circle with user Laz17. The guy even claimed that one color is reserved for one side on those maps. Can somebody check discussion and give some advice? --Čeha(razgovor) 09:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- So wait, you guys are taking probably one of the most hostile nationalistic area of fighting I've ever seen and going to make your own maps of the ethnics groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina? Ok, I'm really not sure how this isn't original research but I'm game. First, I'm extremely concerned about the idea that this is being done on a user subpage involving it looks like only three editors (based off this subpage, in which I see none of the main editors at Talk:Bosnia and Herzegovina involved in). There are some serious concerns about real consensus. Second, I wish people would indent properly. That thing is a mess to read. Third, I really can't see anything good coming out of that mess. What's the reason? To create an single image that will fought over forever. I really don't get the need for delineating the exact ethnicity boundaries (which I guess change over time). I'm make a note on the Bosnia page as that should give you some people who would have interest. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, let me be somewhat useful. First, I would suggest moving the thing basic into articlespace somewhere as people are going to want that history (do not just delete it). Second, I would suggest just using basic dispute resolution. Having a third opinion would probably do the trick. I don't really want to get involved as I can't imagine any way you are going to make a consensus, let alone one that's going to stay for any period of time. This is a content dispute of epic proportions. Last, those images are at Commons. No one here (not literally, but figuratively) can do anything about them. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Alright, FYI, is anyone is interesting, the prior history is at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive494#Bosnian_maps_dispute. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks.It is about a history maps of 1991 BiH. Ethnic borders have already change (prewar maps).
- There is a official census of 1991 [75] which the other user does not acknowledge (claiming that has other data which differs from it). Because of official data it can not be original resurch.
- Of those 3 maps, 2 are on en.wiki [76] [77] and those can be deleted, no?
- Other maps which are in question was made by me (but unfortunately some of the data included data from map which was recently deleted due to copywrite issues (it seems it also had some bad data).
- Main issues of discussion were deletion of those 3 maps and corrections on mine (the other user wants to delete it as well). Original map [78], map with corrections [79].
- That would be in summry. To you know what else can be done with this?
- Thanks in advance
- --Čeha (razgovor) 12:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Alright, at least there's a single plan in place. The images you listed are against at Commons. That's why they say "Create this page." I'm not getting into this. I've already blocked enough people for messing around in these articles and this just seems like a waste of time for me. Give it some time and let's see if others get involved. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 12:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. --Čeha (razgovor) 13:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- We are dealing with some extreme POV here. Not only is it POV but it is sneaky POV. Ceha uses submunicipal population data on units called "mjesna zadjdnica" (or MZ). The problem is that these MZ correspond to NO submunicipal map. The thing is that there is other data, which in all yugoslav censuses(well, 1961, '71, '81 and '91) records cadastral municipalities(CM). What is the issue here we then ask? His MZ units combine a number of CM entities. We do not know which CM's go into the ZM's, as ZM's are only estimates. This is the problem at hand. This is part one to understand the flaws of ceha's arguement. Now, we need to understand this problem more, as what I just said is the way to debunk his theory, as he did not use this data to make a map, as it is impossible to do so.
- There have been a number of ethnic maps produced for the structure of bosnia and herzegovina over the years. Some of the best ones have come from the univeristy of belgrade's geography department. We have the maps from 1981 and 1991. There are also a couple other maps around, which I have provided... maps from the National Geographic (for 1991) and maps by some other users for 1991. Ceha feels that all these maps are wrong. The reason why is because they counter his POV maps.
- The issue then becomes how did ceha create his map? Well, simply put, he edited the 1981 bosnia and herzevogina map from belgarde univeristy. He says he found it online, but it is absolutely nowhere to be found. I have been interested in such maps on the internet and in the last 10 years I have never seen such a map on a place other than wikipedia, where ceha uplaoded his fraud copy. This copy was subsequently deleted, despite much protest from ceha. He created another map, which was also deleted. This map did not have the boundaries and is the actual basemap for the current fraud maps that he created. This is the problem... his maps show too many croats in central bosnia and northern bosnia, and too many bosniaks in serbian areas. Now, with our recent dicussion we have been able to fix some stuff, because he simply knows that he can not keep his wrong maps when I push him evidence. The issue is that he turns down most evidence and that he only likes some data which shows only one or two municipalities, and such specific maps are few in numbers, and I can't find any more.
- Original Belgrade 1981 map - http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/srbi-balkan/img/bosnia-karta2b.jpg
- Here is the original fraud map - http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq314/LAzWikiDude/Bih_1991.jpg
- Here is ceha's updated version, the base for the others - http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq314/LAzWikiDude/Bih_1991_colors.jpg
- His other maps are floating around wikipedia...
- His map was attempted to be deleted in the past... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Archive/2008/07/25#Image:Bih_Stan_1991.GIF - sadly the person did not have enough evidence. (LAz17 (talk) 04:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)).
- There is an official BiH Census of 1991 with data by settlment in the book: Ethnic composition of Bosnia-Herzegovina population, by municipalities and settlements, 1991. census, Zavod za statistiku Bosne i Hercegovine - Bilten no.234, Sarajevo 1991. [80].
- That data is official and is on all regional wikipedias including serbian one.
- Laz data can not be check, validate and most of the maps he puted on the net are showing some differences[81].
- Also he claims that his data comes from something called Cadastar bureau, and that it does not corresponds to settlments[82], but with something else.
- As for [83], I founded on the net, didn't go through much of checking and latter made some maps which were based on that data. The reason I came into the discussion with Laz is that I want to make sure that any possible errors are corrected.
- And, if I'm not mistaken maps [84] and [85] were deleted due to copywrite issues.
- As I previously sad, during the discussion with Laz, we were able to correct most of the errors on Original map [86], map with corrections [87], however the discussion is going nowhere. Which can be seen by simple watching the size of this file [88].
- User Laz17 is very accusative, non civic from time to time (which can be seen in previous ANIS) and not accustomed to some things on how wikipedia works (his uncheckable data and denial of the validity of official BiH census [89] are some of the most obvious examples.
- Moreover he does not have any idea on copywrite issues [90] and in discussions somethings are going forever in circles.
- So I'd like an advice. Due to the difficulties I'm having when trying to cooperate with this user, what shall I do?
- I'd like to exchange (better said repaint,due to change of the format on the other portal) original map[91], to [92].
- Also, If there are any more possible errors, anybody can show me them (on pages of picture discussion), show me the arguments and I'll fix them if that person shows me valid and checable sources.
- Basicly I'm tired of trying to cooperate whith highly abusive and accusative user. Advice, help, please? --Čeha (razgovor) 07:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ceha, what you say does not make sense. The data that you refer to, here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_population_census_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina , shows ONLY municipalities. It does not show a single unit that is less than a municipality. You say as if you have no problem that your maps were deleted for copyright issues. Then why did you defend them so much and try to get them to stay?
- Discussion is indeed leading nowhere. Ceha has openly said that his map is a simplified map, so he will not take into account small settlements of certain groups. Let me clue you all in to what this means. For example, he justified excluding two serbian regions in the municipality tomislavgrad, because he says they are too small. Yet, he includes two even smaller croat regions in a nearby municipality, glamoc. How can he know what he is doing when he is on purpose excluding serbian areas because of small size, yet not excluding croat ones that are even smaller? That's just mind boggling. It spells of propaganda and POV. (LAz17 (talk) 16:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)).
- Laz, don't lie. Neather old map [93] nor corrected one [94]does not have any Croat village in Glamoč municipality.
- Population census 1991 wiki link [95] shows results on municipal level. You also have data official results by municipalities and settlments in the book: Ethnic composition of Bosnia-Herzegovina population, by municipalities and settlements, 1991. census, Zavod za statistiku Bosne i Hercegovine - Bilten no.234, Sarajevo 1991. That is official data and numbers must sum. Data which you used (and which has no possible refference and can not be in any way checked) shows different numbers, which can be seen onto the [96] under the Kupres data request and valid data
- Also I'd like to report user Laz17 here for uncivic behavior and demand a temperate ban on your edit activities on wikipedia. He called me a fascist here [97] (ustasom).
- User Laz17 also had previous reports of his uncivic behavior [98].
- --Čeha (razgovor) 21:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ceha continually avoids the fact that he decriminates against serbian locations with over 100 people, saying that they're too small - yet they include croatian places (in area grahovo) which have only 2 people!!! If this is not biased ethnic nationalistic hatred, I do not know what is. I request a IP check on users Ceha, Kubura, and Zenanarh. As for data discussion, I think I have made it clear at the topic where we discuss it, as the wikipedia data which you speak of is nothing - it's just municipalities. However, if you go to the croatian wikipedia you can see much more. Follow that link and you will see that the croatian wikipedia has data and that your pdf file is in a fact a bad source. (LAz17 (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)).
- I answered all of this on talk page[99]. On the map shall not be any difference regarding of a nationality. Same rules must always apply to all.
- Data which is on croatian wiki (and bosnian and serbian) is from the book Bilten 234. It is the official data. Data which user Laz has can not be found anywhere (no book, no internet source) and is different from that official data(which can be also seen on national wikis) on (at least) municipal level ([100] under the Kupres data request and valid data).
- As I replied to Ricky, I shall try to find some other solution because when other side starts to offend you in open discussion and repetedly displays uncivic behavior it is clear that something is not working properly.--Čeha (razgovor) 07:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ceha continually avoids the fact that he decriminates against serbian locations with over 100 people, saying that they're too small - yet they include croatian places (in area grahovo) which have only 2 people!!! If this is not biased ethnic nationalistic hatred, I do not know what is. I request a IP check on users Ceha, Kubura, and Zenanarh. As for data discussion, I think I have made it clear at the topic where we discuss it, as the wikipedia data which you speak of is nothing - it's just municipalities. However, if you go to the croatian wikipedia you can see much more. Follow that link and you will see that the croatian wikipedia has data and that your pdf file is in a fact a bad source. (LAz17 (talk) 00:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)).
Moving on, I gave Laz a warning at User_talk:LAz17#Image:BiHSimplifiedEthnic1991.gif. If he doesn't respond at User:Rjecina/Bosnian_census#Clean_slate in a fruitful manner, I have no problems giving him a short block or something under the Wikipedia:ARBMAC sanctions. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
My two cents
This was a bad idea and is now a content dispute. I told you guys what to do, I would suggest actually doing it. On a better (or worse) day, I would block both of you to stop the incivility and bickering, but I'm not in the mood. Go follow dispute resolution or better yet drop the whole idea and move on. Could someone else please confirm my view? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ok Ricky. Sorry, but it is hard to work when someone is calling you a fascist [101] and uses uncivic manner of discussion. I'll wait on some things and try to see if someone else is going to get in the discussion.--Čeha(razgovor) 07:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Here's an honest question. Is the goal to create a new map or just pull an old one and use it? I see a lot of "here is a map I made so let's use that" without explanations as to the underlying source. The first step should be agree on the source for the numbers and then design a map based upon that. I mean, this is assuming the problem isn't boundaries, which it doesn't look like. I'd rather people actually follow WP:V and get a sourced map, i.e., a map by some professional/intellectual/professor/whatever and use that. Frankly, photobucket maps are just a bad idea. This is going to just go nowhere. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Honestly, my plan was to correct any errors on existent map[102]. However I don't have anything against starting from the scratch.
- Photobucket maps where used in discussion primarly to pinpoint position of a settlment (at least from my side).
- Anyways, I'd like to thank you for involment in process. That discussion was realy long and wasn't going anywhere. When we agree on the source of the data, I think we'll speed some things up:)
- Here's an honest question. Is the goal to create a new map or just pull an old one and use it? I see a lot of "here is a map I made so let's use that" without explanations as to the underlying source. The first step should be agree on the source for the numbers and then design a map based upon that. I mean, this is assuming the problem isn't boundaries, which it doesn't look like. I'd rather people actually follow WP:V and get a sourced map, i.e., a map by some professional/intellectual/professor/whatever and use that. Frankly, photobucket maps are just a bad idea. This is going to just go nowhere. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
--Čeha (razgovor) 08:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Request for third party input on Glenn McGee
Some third party input on this page would be welcome. It was originally created in 2006 by an SPA, User:Roop79. In the light of the later history, this was possibly the subject himself, but I have no way of verifying that (and it isn't really all that important anyway). It was later extended by another SPA, User:Histofscience, who also uploaded a photo of McGee stating that he was the copyright owner. The article was subsequently edited by an anonymous IP, Special:Contributions/72.226.77.204, again an SPA. At this point, some edit-warring happened, with another SPA, Special:Contributions/74.76.183.8 (apparently McGee, see below) posting this note on another SPA's talk page. As of last April, the article was very flattering to the subject, but then a controversy evolved as he was "dismissed", "fired", or "relieved" from one of his functions. The subject himself, editing from the anonymous IP 74.76.183.8, commented on the article's talk page here. The article was then edited by User:David Eppstein to produce a rather concise and neutral version. Despite some recurring attempts to remove sourced information, the article remained relatively stable up till a few days ago. Last night, however, two anonymous IP SPAs, Special:Contributions/166.217.123.54 and Special:Contributions/32.178.20.86 rewrote the entire article with this result. Note that in the edit summaries these two IPs refer to each other by first name. Also note the extremely similar styles of the edit summaries and the resemblance to those used by McGee in his earlier edits. In addition, one of the IPs calls for "charges" to be brought against User:David Eppstein here. Given the comments on the talk page and the tone of the edit summaries, I do not think that there is much use in attempting to find a compromise with these SPAs. Any advice on how to deal with this situation would be welcome. --Crusio (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- From an uninvolved editory, I'd suggest Semi-protecting the article. Encourage Mr McGee to create an account if he'd like to continue editing the article, to avoid any COI issues. Guyonthesubway (talk) 20:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I notice also that two of the anon IP's are from a Verizon Wireless and Cingular phone. From their tone and edit pattern it sure looks like a single user. User 74.76.191.81 is pretty likely to be McGee himself with a new IP Guyonthesubway (talk) 23:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- The Berkeley bioethics group began an edit of bioethicist pages three months ago, working together over Skype from wherever we happen to be. If you would like to contact our group you are welcome to do so. One of our members was appalled at the history of this page, which apparently consists of two persons with no knowledge of bioethics conducting buzz cuts of the contributions of one of the leading scholars in the field. We call not only for investigation as to whether Eppstein and Crusio have conflict of interest, best demonstrated as they allowed numerous sock puppets to edit at will but attack McGee. It is written that we "rewrote the entire article," which is false; more than 50% of the article is taken from a version that existed prior to erasure of all but the most negative information. It is written that we "refer to each other by first name." Is that a problem? ::Third party assistance is needed to go back through this history and look at those who disappear after dropping bombs on McGee, sock puppets all, and the Eppstein/Crusio echo chamber, which claims to be neutral but writes amazing notes in the history and cut the article to nothing - praising each other (the only ones praising them). The history records numerous ad hominem attacks by both against Dr. McGee. It is written that "Given the comments on the talk page and the tone of the edit summaries, I do not think that there is much use in attempting to find a compromise with these SPAs." This is hogwash. The problem with tone is evident in the past three entries by Crusio, describing Court records (from his own favorite source) as "fluff" and cutting the article again, even though the article is far more negative now. ::We took great pains to be accurate about the controversy and any objective bioethics observer would conclude that neither Crusio nor Eppstein are in a position to request a lock down of this article before our and other edits are put in play. The entire bioethics community has been made aware of this activity through our listserv and we should expect that either Wikipedia's administration and third party editors will stop Crusio and Eppstein's echo chamber - which we found in a day - and call for neutral editors to take their place, else the article will be the subject of constant revision to stop vandalism. ::It is written further that "I notice also that two of the anon IP's are from a Verizon Wireless and Cingular phone. From their tone and edit pattern it sure looks like a single user. User 74.76.191.81 is pretty likely to be McGee himself with a new IP." None in our group uses Verizon, and within the group only one uses AT&T, not Cingular. This is the sort of thing advanced in this discussion - a new contributor is suddenly an expert on voicing, IP addresses, and improper editing as they relate to censorship. "Guy on the Subway", who is not a scholar of bioethics, is an expert on its entries and contributors in a matter of minutes? Email us off-line, Subway, and we will be happy to provide credentials, email addresses, and our agenda for bioethics edits. There is no merit to a claim of COI. We are scholars conducting peer review. As to Dr. McGee's IP address and the claim that the edits are similar to McGee, this is, as you would have seen had you read the history, because many of the prior edits that were attributed to McGee were restored in our edits. This is not a forum for attacks on academics based on intuitionism, but an encyclopedia, yes? What in the world is an edit summary about hagiography doing in such a history? ::If there is a lock down, it should be to let others apart from Eppstein and Crusio, who appear to watch this article like hawks for the sole purpose of attacking its veracity, audit their work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.178.52.190 (talk) 04:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- another admin (Jéské Couriano) has now fully protected the article for a week. You wanted a third opinion. The obviously promotional tone of the additions from the ip address do not help convince me of the justice of the charges. Even if i had known nothing about the two editors, their removal of such blatantly improper edits would stand testimony to their integrity. I'd be willing to consider blocking the ip for the repeated addition of spam. I'm not a bioethicist, but I do know a good deal about academic self-advertising. DGG (talk) 07:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- The Berkeley bioethics group began an edit of bioethicist pages three months ago, working together over Skype from wherever we happen to be. If you would like to contact our group you are welcome to do so. One of our members was appalled at the history of this page, which apparently consists of two persons with no knowledge of bioethics conducting buzz cuts of the contributions of one of the leading scholars in the field. We call not only for investigation as to whether Eppstein and Crusio have conflict of interest, best demonstrated as they allowed numerous sock puppets to edit at will but attack McGee. It is written that we "rewrote the entire article," which is false; more than 50% of the article is taken from a version that existed prior to erasure of all but the most negative information. It is written that we "refer to each other by first name." Is that a problem? ::Third party assistance is needed to go back through this history and look at those who disappear after dropping bombs on McGee, sock puppets all, and the Eppstein/Crusio echo chamber, which claims to be neutral but writes amazing notes in the history and cut the article to nothing - praising each other (the only ones praising them). The history records numerous ad hominem attacks by both against Dr. McGee. It is written that "Given the comments on the talk page and the tone of the edit summaries, I do not think that there is much use in attempting to find a compromise with these SPAs." This is hogwash. The problem with tone is evident in the past three entries by Crusio, describing Court records (from his own favorite source) as "fluff" and cutting the article again, even though the article is far more negative now. ::We took great pains to be accurate about the controversy and any objective bioethics observer would conclude that neither Crusio nor Eppstein are in a position to request a lock down of this article before our and other edits are put in play. The entire bioethics community has been made aware of this activity through our listserv and we should expect that either Wikipedia's administration and third party editors will stop Crusio and Eppstein's echo chamber - which we found in a day - and call for neutral editors to take their place, else the article will be the subject of constant revision to stop vandalism. ::It is written further that "I notice also that two of the anon IP's are from a Verizon Wireless and Cingular phone. From their tone and edit pattern it sure looks like a single user. User 74.76.191.81 is pretty likely to be McGee himself with a new IP." None in our group uses Verizon, and within the group only one uses AT&T, not Cingular. This is the sort of thing advanced in this discussion - a new contributor is suddenly an expert on voicing, IP addresses, and improper editing as they relate to censorship. "Guy on the Subway", who is not a scholar of bioethics, is an expert on its entries and contributors in a matter of minutes? Email us off-line, Subway, and we will be happy to provide credentials, email addresses, and our agenda for bioethics edits. There is no merit to a claim of COI. We are scholars conducting peer review. As to Dr. McGee's IP address and the claim that the edits are similar to McGee, this is, as you would have seen had you read the history, because many of the prior edits that were attributed to McGee were restored in our edits. This is not a forum for attacks on academics based on intuitionism, but an encyclopedia, yes? What in the world is an edit summary about hagiography doing in such a history? ::If there is a lock down, it should be to let others apart from Eppstein and Crusio, who appear to watch this article like hawks for the sole purpose of attacking its veracity, audit their work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.178.52.190 (talk) 04:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Abusive comment about the organisation CAFOD
Hi - on the Criticism part of an entry about CAFOD, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFOD it states: "In 2004, the news service Catholic World Report (CWR) claimed that CAFOD is controlled by an active and unrepentant cabal of homosexuals who promote the use of condoms for AIDS prevention in developing countries."
I have posted a comment to refute this, but i believe the initial comment is highly abusive in its nature. Linking out to the news report is acceptable (regardless of whether it is accurate or not) but i feel the initial comment above should be edited to remove the content "CAFOD is controlled by an active and unrepentant cabal of homosexuals" which is derogatory to homosexuals in the extreme
Please could you look into this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.207.126.242 (talk) 17:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, it's derogatory (and inflamatory), but if the quote is what they said, I'm not sure that it should be removed. It's hard to have a section on criticism of an organization (even if the criticism is untrue, offensive, silly, or any combination thereof) if the reader doesn't know what the criticism is.
- One problem I do see is that I can't find the original quote online. The link goes to someone else's report of what was said, and they don't have quote marks around the phrase. Something like "LifeSiteNews.com reports that" might need to be added before the offending sentence.--Fabrictramp talk to me 18:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oddly enough, based on their track record, I'd have thought it's the Catholic church hierarchy itself that comprises "an active and unrepentant cabal of homosexuals". Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 18:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- There are certain types of wording that are only permissible if the quote is highly notable in its own right. This doesn't seem to cross that threshold, and so the statement comes across as a pov-push regardless of whether it is placed in quotation marks and attributed to a source. Looie496 (talk) 19:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Good point. Looks like the LifeSiteNews.com article was picked up by half a dozen blogs, and didn't do much beyond that. A search for ("Catholic World Report" + CAFOD) brings up a bit more, but those could easily become the basis for a more general criticism section talking about the condom issue, something I certainly could support. --Fabrictramp talk to me 19:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Cafod has been accused of sanctioning the use of condoms, and of course Cafod's run by an actively gay man, but I couldn't find 'cabal' used, so think that it is a sensationalist rendition of what's been said. Sticky Parkin 21:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- "Accused of sanctioning the use of condoms"??? Forsooth! Let he who is without sin cast the first cabal-stone. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
DRV needs closing
Can some kind admin close the above DRV? Its already slipped off the the page and seems to be heading for oblivion. It probably need someone with a scientific or academic background to understand some of the arguments. Thanks Spartaz Humbug! 11:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Holtth
Does anyone have any idea as to why a myriad of editors keep touching this userpage? I don't know, it's all questionable activity to me, and I highly doubt this is supposed to be a sandbox (given the page history). Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Since it belongs to a vandal only account, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Think of it as a honeypot for catching all his Myspace-y buddies. – iridescent 23:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hey, maybe this would be a good place to stash the proposed article Barack Obama birth hoax conspiracy theories. [103]Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 00:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- But Iridescent, isn't that against the rules? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hey, maybe this would be a good place to stash the proposed article Barack Obama birth hoax conspiracy theories. [103]Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc? 00:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Deleted user page per WP:NOTYOURSPACE and protected redirect to Talk page. Latter semi-protected and watchlisted. Owner hasn't edited since May. --Rodhullandemu 18:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
2008 Greek riots
I'd appreciate if we could have a few more eyes overseeing 2008 Greek riots and the talk page. There's some hot blood between our young and impressionable Greek contributors, and possible BLP issues regarding the criminal investigations against the police officers involved in the shooting that triggered the riots. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I would semi-protect it at this point, but want more feedback. I've move-protected it to head off the inevitable page-move vandalism and probably the naming dispute that
willmay develop. MBisanztalk 16:11, 10 December 2008 (UTC)- Actually, I don't think naming disputes will be the biggest problem here, at least I've seen no signs of it so far. And the last few anon contributions that I've seen were mostly constructive. I think it mainly needs watching against hot-headedness on talk. Fut.Perf.☼ 16:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think MBisanz was talking about Gr*** page move vandalism, not Gr*** page move vandalism. ;-) --Hans Adler (talk) 17:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I've watchlisted, and will keep an eye out. Hiberniantears (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think MBisanz was talking about Gr*** page move vandalism, not Gr*** page move vandalism. ;-) --Hans Adler (talk) 17:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, I don't think naming disputes will be the biggest problem here, at least I've seen no signs of it so far. And the last few anon contributions that I've seen were mostly constructive. I think it mainly needs watching against hot-headedness on talk. Fut.Perf.☼ 16:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Semi-pp expired on Rod Blagojevich
I've let semi-protection expire on Rod Blagojevich. I'd like to request some admin attention and re-protect if IP vandalism kicks in again. Thanks. Ronnotel (talk) 21:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Block of user Stating the Obvious
I have blocked Stating the Obvious (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) as an obvious sockpuppet, almost certainly of a banned user but even if not then used well outside the acceptable bounds of use of alternate accounts. [104], for example, makes it look very much like our old friend Mr. Kohs pushing his COI memes, but it could equally be any one of a number of other candidates. Either way, [105], [106] and [107] is the kind of trolling we can do without: if an established user wants to make such comments then they can stand up and be counted under their own identity. Guy (Help!) 18:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I don't know about all the other stuff, but reference 146 (though quite funny) could be viewed as trolling. Again, I don't really see the other ones you`re presenting... but then again maybe someone else here that has been following the situation may shed some light. I particularly couldn't care less if he's blocked or not, but what I do know is from our past interaction - I've noticed a firm grasp (with not to many 2nd or 3rd chances) on your enforcement of the rules and, kudos, ensuring non-sense remains at a minimum. In short, I guess reference 146 is sufficient grounds to warrant a block if you're sure of you move. --CyclePat (talk) 18:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Winlaton West Lane Primary School
Now redirected to Winlaton – ukexpat (talk) 20:37, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Good evening I noticed early this morning that there was a personal discriminatory comment on the information provided about this school which my children attend. The offensive comment was "the headteacher is a lesbian". It has been removed but this is a sexist comment and I would appreciate your vigilance on this site. This comment was added on 26 October 2008 at 23.03 by IP 91.125.160.25 Thank you77.98.214.142 (talk) 19:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Suspected sockpuppet of Politician Texas
This user (AndrewGirron) has the same modus operandi as PoliticianTexas; northern New Mexico high schools[108], the New Mexico Activites Association [109] and recent changes[110] to New Mexico match[111] those of another recent PoliticianTexas sockpuppet[112](Ani Archive), even the edit summaries are strikingly similar.[113][114]. I started a sockpuppet case but need to do my (real) homework now, Uncia informed me that WP:SSP doesn't have to be immediately used for PoliticianTexas', that he may be discussed here first. It seemed to scare the user in question away for a little while though. I find the evidence compelling, if somewhat limited.Synchronism (talk) 04:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Confirmed sock of PoliticianTexas. Blocked indefinitely. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 21:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Yaneleksklus and sockpuppetry (again)
Hi,
Please take a look at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Yaneleksklus (3rd). This user is up to the exact same sockpuppetry as he's been blocked or warned for several times now. He's causing a big headache for editors at several articles, and I'd appreciate if someone could take a look. --Kaini (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- blocked, and back again under 82.209.208.7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) :( --Kaini (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Possible ethnic block voting in ArbCom elections part 2
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Part 1 of this discussion was started by ChrisO here. He was worried that Armenian users were opposing John Vandenberg because they believed that he made biased and wrong judgmental decisions in the Armenia-Azerbaijan corner of wikipedia. Armenians believe that John drank the Azeri coolaid if you will. ChrisO suspected off-site canvassing and said that such behavior undermines the integrity of ArbCom votes.
Just so it happens inactive Azeri users started to vote in support of John. A clear indication that they have a stake in Jayvdb's victory in this elections.
- Special:Contributions/Dacy69 - inactive 7 weeks made his first only edit to support John.
- Special:Contributions/Iberieli - inactive 5 weeks, made his only edit to support John.
- Special:Contributions/Aynabend - inactive 4 weeks(if we don't count the single talkpage edit).
- Special:Contributions/Gulmammad - inactive 2 weeks and 3 weeks before November 23 single edit. Edit summary of the vote "what a great deal!".
- Special:Contributions/Atabəy - inactive 1 week.
Something tells me this isn't the last of them.
If such a big noise was made about the "evil" Armenians opposing John, will such a big noise be made when Azeris are supporting him? You can't have your cake and eat it too. --VartanM (talk) 10:02, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Iberieli is Georgian, not Azeri. And only 4 Azeri votes against 30+ Armenian users, many of whom were dormant for many months, some for over a year? How would that make a difference? This is something that was expected, see [115]. There will be people, who would vote just to spite the Armenian ethnic block. If Armenians voted against, they will vote in support, no matter what it is. Grandmaster (talk) 10:34, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Iberieli maybe a Georgian, but he acts and edits like an Azeri. 30+ Armenians? are there really that many ARmenians in wikipedia? wow. Your last sentence is a gem. You are basically admitting that Azeris are racist and hate Armenians. What happened to the AGF? What happened to not turning wikipedia into a battleground? Should I start profiling them like ChrisO was doing it? Ahh the hypocrisy. VartanM (talk) 10:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You are basically admitting that Azeris are racist and hate Armenians. This line is simply brilliant, I'm not commenting on that. But in my previous post I was just repeating what other users already observed. There's a trend for spite voting here. No good, I agree. But ethnic bloc voting is no good in general. If you form such blocs for voting, you must expect other blocks to appear too, and they might be voting to oppose your bloc, for whatever reason. I think, the election system in general is no good, it needs changing for the next year to prevent bloc voting. Specifically something needs to be done to prevent inactive accounts from voting. But in any case, those 4 votes mentioned by VartanM are unlikely to make any difference comparing with dozens of canvassed oppose votes that were cast there over the last week. Grandmaster (talk) 11:53, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Is any action actually needed at this time? This isn't a normal democratic vote. Jimbo has said to that he analyses the votes before making his final decision. Presumably the more obvious ulterior motives of some voters will be one of the things he takes into account. This is one area in which Wikimedia's take on elections might have an advantage over straight voting where interesting results can occur when ethnicity is a factor.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps, it is hard to understand for VartanM, but non-editing of pages does not mean that the contributor does not follow pages. And folks, come on, does it have to be any more obvious that VartanM is engaging in a battlefield mentality along nationalist lines when he now blames editors for simply voting! Those admins which reserve leniency towards VartanM's repeatedly disruptive behavior, those which after half a dozen reported violations on WP:AE choose not to execute the decisions of ArbCom, those who follow VartanM's allegations accusing User:Ehud Lesar of being a sock, being proven wrong after major wasteful ArbCom case, and still continue to serve his POV propaganda in Wikipedia aim to block John's nomination just for not falling into the same pit. Does it have to be any more obvious to conclude that Wikipedia is definitely not a place for such POV politics? Atabəy (talk) 17:44, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Atabek, I knew that you couldn't resist passing this thread. Here is a question for you buddy, doesn't non-editing but following pages sound a little ownerish to you? I mean, I have to confess, I do have a pretty big watchlist(1200+ articles), but I don't watch them every day to make sure no one is editing them.
- I don't blame you for voting, you can vote all you want, you must hurry tho, candidates are starting to withdraw from the race and every single vote counts, so hurry.
- About the AE board and "half a dozen reports". Are you sure there is only 6 bogus reports about me in there? You must have filled about 20 just by yourself. I'm not even gonna count how many the master of all bogus reports, the Grandmaster, filled.
- Atabek, Arbcom found that Ehud=Adilbagirov allegation was made in good faith, and appreciated our efforts to keep wikipedia sockpuppet free. What happened to Ehud anyway? You and Grandmaster must've spent weeks of your lives to get him unbanned, after witch he made 8 edits and hasn't been seen since May.
- Atabek, you have been topic banned from half a dozen articles for POV pushing, so you are the last person in wikipedia that needs to talk about POV politics. VartanM (talk) 10:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I will say it again, voting against JayB or supporting him on nationalistic lines regarding his actions in this case is counterproductive. If he gets on the Committee then he would have to recuse on any case involving these issues that are brought to it - if he doesn't get on the Committee then he is free to help take cases there. There must be something about nationalism that results in accelerated brain cell decay. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Glad that you got that out of your system, ever heard of WP:NPA? I did not vote against him because he took Azeris side, and now admitted that he has. I voted against him because I witnessed his judgmental errors. Here is an example, He blocked User:Fedayee on December 26th for saying that User:Ehud Lesar was, then banned, User:AdilBaguirov's sockpuppet. Fedayee had a full page of evidence to support his claim, which John decided to look at a day after the block. Here is my question to you LessHeard vanU do you need an arbitrator that can't be bothered to read evidence? That is my one and only reason why I know that John wouldn't be a good arbitrator. VartanM (talk) 10:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- If it was true that I did not read evidence, you might have a point. However I have already collated a complete history of this event at User:Jayvdb/AA_involvement#Fedayee for you, where I show that I had already investigated it, as had others, and they all found it to be insufficient evidence to support the allegations being made at that time, and other admins also told the Armenians to stop making the accusations until it was proven.
- I did look at the evidence before the block.
- Your willful ignorance here is quite trying, especially as you keep trying to mislead others as well.
- The block has already been reviewed by admins at AN, and more admins are welcome to review it again now. You expect me to believe that the blocks by khoikhoi and nishkid64 were acceptable ... fine, ... how about you accept that my block was also acceptable. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- John the facts are that you blocked Fedayee on December 26th, and admitted that you started looking at the evidence on the 27th. Here is a diff, where you say that you did not examined the full evidence and had just started looking at it. VartanM (talk) 10:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I had started looking at the evidence on the 27th; I had been looking at it on the 24th, for quite a considerable period of time! Go review the diffs. Everyone had told Fedayee to stop repeating this allegation until it was proven. It took me a week to put together a good case regarding Andranikpasha, and I am pretty sure I had told Fedayee it would take me a week or two, as this case was very vague and required a deep understanding of the topics in order to understand the allegations regarding behavioural similarities. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- One more thing, since you now admit that you have taken sides in A-A issues, all of your decisions are open to discussion. VartanM (talk) 11:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have never taken the "Azeri" side. I have made decisions based on policy and the information available to me at the time.
- There have been many times I have acted the way the Armenians desired, for the same reasons I have sometimes acted the way that the Azeri desired - I was doing what was right, as I understood it as an unbiased third opinion.
- I am not going to be "balanced" by letting Armenians be "right" 50% of the time and the Azeri be "right" the other 50% of the time. I opine and act based on what I believe to be right in each instance. John Vandenberg (chat) 11:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- The single fact that you promise to recuse from future Armenia-Azerbaijan cases is indication that you have taken sides. Let me remind you that in last years election Moreschi got both Armenian and Azerbaijani votes and no one asked him to recuse from future AA cases. There are about 5-10 administrators who regularly patrol AA articles and deal with "us" I can't speak for others, but if everyone of them was running, you are the only one I would oppose. The reason I stopped contributing to Wikisource was because of your inaction, when I pointed out that a bogus text was added by AdilBaguirov. VartanM (talk) 11:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- John the facts are that you blocked Fedayee on December 26th, and admitted that you started looking at the evidence on the 27th. Here is a diff, where you say that you did not examined the full evidence and had just started looking at it. VartanM (talk) 10:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- If it was true that I did not read evidence, you might have a point. However I have already collated a complete history of this event at User:Jayvdb/AA_involvement#Fedayee for you, where I show that I had already investigated it, as had others, and they all found it to be insufficient evidence to support the allegations being made at that time, and other admins also told the Armenians to stop making the accusations until it was proven.
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/2008 IWF action transcripts
- see also the sensationally worded #Users edit warring to replace copyvios opened below a number of hours later
During the last three days, transcripts have been created[116] of national, and international, television and radio broadcasts. The from-scratch transcripts cover interviews where a individual (principally User:David Gerard) has represented Wikipedia in media coverage regarding the Internet Watch Foundation and Wikipedia saga. The transcripts have enabled the international editorship of Wikipedia to understand what has been said, and allowed feedback to the interviewee after the first live slot (on BBC Radio 4's The Today Programme). The transcripts also cover BBC World Service News and Channel Four News interviews.
Aswell as being crucial for the internal understanding of the unfolding sequence of events, the transcripts are explicitly allowed under copyright law, having been produced and initially transcribed (not by myself) in the United Kingdom, by those having access to the broadcasts.
| “ | Fair dealing with a work (other than a photograph) for the purpose of reporting current events does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that ... it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement. —Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (Part I, Chapter III, Section 30, sub-section 2[tr 1]) | ” |
However, whilst the Copyright situation is clear (and US copyright law is even broader in its "current events"-related exception), allowance under Wikipedia's own Wikipedia:Fair Use policy is unclear. WP:FU was not designed with internal Wikipedia collaboration in mind, and restricts its exception to those in main article space. As these transcripts demonstrate the conduct of an individual representing Wikipedia, a full interview transcription is probably required in each case (to provide full context). A reasonable implicit consensus appears to have existed over their relevance, with the transcripts remaining untouched on the page for 48 hours.
The exception to this tranquility has been removal by editor(s) following the letter of WP:FU in exacting great detail.[117][118][119][tr 2][tr 3] There are two issues at hand:
- immediate
- Whether Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/2008 IWF action should retain its transcripts for the next week.
- If those restoring a consensus/exception should receive warnings/bans.
- longer term
- Whether an explicit note expanding upon "best treated with common sense and the occasional exception" in relation to Wikipedia Project: space, be discussed or be added to WP:FU.
Circumstance raised here because the sub-page nesting, and because the transcripts have been removed. —Sladen (talk) 13:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- ^ "Acts Permitted in Relation to Copyright Works" (PDF). Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. Office of Public Sector Information. p. 40. Retrieved 2008-12-08.
{{cite web}}:chapter=ignored (help) - ^ Note that the last summary differs, having changed from "copyvio" to "non-free violation".
- ^ Full disclosure: I received {{uw-copyright}} owing to reverting the first removal.
- Um. Was DG representing WP? I am certain that he provided disclaimers in earlier interactions with various bodies - I understand he was acting as a press contact in a volunteer capacity rather than a representative. This may need clearing up when considering the above. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- As can be seen in the transcripts; DG was variously described as a volunteer spokesman for Wikipedia in this country [the UK]. Technically or otherwise, his national TV/radio interviews were seen to be representative of Wikipedia. —Sladen (talk) 00:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Funny how this has come up with this public event but hasn't, I don't think, in the last few. DG is an official press contact for the Wikimedia Foundation in the United Kingdom. His work is unpaid, but coordinated by the San Francisco office via Jay Walsh. Avruch T 01:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- For clarity, foundation:Press room#Official chapters currently states[120]
| “ | Wikimedia UK
| ” |
Users edit warring to replace copyvios
- note,
(as noted in the initial post)this concern was already open above at #Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/2008 IWF action transcripts which has a fuller-description but has received fewer replies
Someone posted various transcripts of radio interviews on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/2008 IWF action. Although the transcripts are "home made" they are of copyrighted material. Since a fair use claim (even if valid) cannot be made outside article space, I removed them. Various users have reinserted them, claiming "consensus"[121]. I'm getting the blame here for enforcing policy, but since they are making it personal, I'd best bow out.
Warning have already been issued [122] and [123]. The copyvios still remain on the page as of now.
Can others take this up, remove the material and either convince the offenders to knock it off, or as a last resort, do something else....?--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Scott has indeed been edit-warring over this, and threatening blocks, despite an active thread on the talk page discussing the interpretation of the policy. One admin has leapt straight to a final warning after a single revert by me, despite not having said on the talk page that it should not be re-inserted. DuncanHill (talk) 21:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- A clear warning was already on the talk page, which you cannot have failed to see. It is always better to warn before blocking. We can discuss this, but the policy is clear, and so you don't replace copyvios in the meantime.--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- There was no warning from any admin that I saw. Blocks or the threat of blocks should not be used when a good-faith discussion on a matter of interpretation is ongoing. I cordially invite you to participate in it, instead of hashing it out here. DuncanHill (talk) 21:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- The status of the person issue the warning is not relevant. A talk page discussion cannot overrule policy. I have explained policy several times, there is nothing more I can think of to say.--Scott Mac (Doc) 22:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- There was no warning from any admin that I saw. Blocks or the threat of blocks should not be used when a good-faith discussion on a matter of interpretation is ongoing. I cordially invite you to participate in it, instead of hashing it out here. DuncanHill (talk) 21:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- A clear warning was already on the talk page, which you cannot have failed to see. It is always better to warn before blocking. We can discuss this, but the policy is clear, and so you don't replace copyvios in the meantime.--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- There is a legitimate case for keeping this. It is not your run of the mill copyvio. This is material the project needs. WP:IAR considerations are appropriate, as are being discussed on the talk page. Jheald (talk) 22:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- (ec)I will add that I did not see your (i.e Scott's) warning (timed at 21:17) before I had reverted your action (21:18). DuncanHill (talk) 22:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me if this violates our civility policy, but you're all acting like idiots. There are no dire consequences for Wikipedia if the transcripts are included for a couple hours or not included for a couple hours. Stop edit warring over this and just talk about it. -Chunky Rice (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- It was being discussed, until someone decided to remove it and threaten anyone who replaced it. DuncanHill (talk) 22:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- My point is that there was no need to immediately force it back in. The issue is largely resolved. Nothing bad is going to happen in the interim, if you wait until some sort of consensus forms before acting. People always seem to think that being "right" justifies an edit war. It doesn't. Both sides think that they're in the right. That's why there's a war. -Chunky Rice (talk) 22:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- And there was no need for Scott to threaten blocks, nor for MBisanz to leap in with a completely unjustified final warning after a single revert. DuncanHill (talk) 22:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. That's why I said "...you're all acting like idiots." It's a broad spectrum condemnation. -Chunky Rice (talk) 22:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- And there was no need for Scott to threaten blocks, nor for MBisanz to leap in with a completely unjustified final warning after a single revert. DuncanHill (talk) 22:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- My point is that there was no need to immediately force it back in. The issue is largely resolved. Nothing bad is going to happen in the interim, if you wait until some sort of consensus forms before acting. People always seem to think that being "right" justifies an edit war. It doesn't. Both sides think that they're in the right. That's why there's a war. -Chunky Rice (talk) 22:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey guys, if you haven't noticed Wikipedia isn't the only site that hosts text, in fact far from it. Just put the transcript on Google Docs and be done with it. BJTalk 22:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- As Doc pointed out on the talk page, linking to a copyvio is just as disallowed (although I think it would be a good compromise). The last thing we need after this censorship ordeal is a copyvio ordeal. John Reaves 22:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
BJ is right. Just throw excerpts up on a blog somewhere and discuss them there. Fair use of those transcript excerpts in US law is more broad and permissive than wikipedia policy by far. Linking to someone who claims FU to host transcripts isn't against the copyvio policy. Protonk (talk) 00:15, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to get hot and bothered over a link to elsewhere anyway. However, can someone remove the transcripts from wikipedia in the meantime? I think we are agreed on what wp non-free policy is here.--Scott Mac (Doc) 00:24, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's a discussion on the talk page. Stop forum-shopping. DuncanHill (talk) 00:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's no forum shopping. A group of people on the talk page were claiming that a consensus there could set our non-free media policies aside. I brought it here for more eyes. Admins are here to enforce policy.--Scott Mac (Doc) 00:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You didn't bring it here for more eyes, you explicitly brought it here to get your own way when your threats at the talk page had failed. DuncanHill (talk) 00:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Both of you, chill out. Duncan is right that the talk page is the proper place for this discussion. There's nothing here that requires admin attention right now. Nevertheless, Duncan, these bad faith accusations (accurate or not) just aren't productive. So cool it. -Chunky Rice (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You didn't bring it here for more eyes, you explicitly brought it here to get your own way when your threats at the talk page had failed. DuncanHill (talk) 00:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's no forum shopping. A group of people on the talk page were claiming that a consensus there could set our non-free media policies aside. I brought it here for more eyes. Admins are here to enforce policy.--Scott Mac (Doc) 00:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- WP:FORUMSHOP; diff=257034992 is bordering on WP:CIVIL ("a threat against another"). —Sladen (talk) 01:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- It is always better that people are warned. They get pissed when blocked without warning.--Scott Mac (Doc) 10:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- WOW ! First, as a former broadcaster I'll tell you that this work ("transcript") is pretty much a work for hire (in US parlance) and IS copyrighted by the BBC. HOWEVER - there's no way to actually get that text from the BBC,per the BBC itself, so, there's a good case for IAR right there.
I support IAR in this. Leave it in. KoshVorlon > rm -r WP:F.U.R 14:05, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Suicide Threat
Look here. I prefer not to take chances, could someone please advise on the appropriate action in these situations (if any)? Thanks in advance. ScarianCall me Pat! 22:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I added a note on the person's talk page. People who are tech gurus might be able to track down the IP (24.235.41.136) and call the person. Suicide is no laughing matter. It is true that sometimes threats are sick hoaxes but some threats are genuine calls for help. Chergles (talk) 22:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm very inclined to agree. Perhaps a WMF concern? ScarianCall me Pat! 22:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- The IP is registered to Bluewater TV Cable, Limited of Clinton, Ontario, Canada. Probably calling the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMPs would work. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 22:37
(ec)IP is Bluewater Cable TV in Goderich, Ontario, Canada. Telephone (519)482-9233. Any Canadians out there to call them or the local police there? Chergles (talk) 22:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Chergles for the more defined WhoIs search. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 23:05
I have blocked the IP Theresa Knott token threats 23:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- May I ask why? - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 23:13
- Sure, it's standard to do this as it prevents them from doing it again. Theresa Knotttoken threats 23:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Wouldn't that be a bad thing in case this person really is serious? Maybe try and talk to them? I figure it is just someone messing around, but I guess I always err on the side of caution on these things. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 23:48
- No, if they seriously need help, we are not going to be able to give it to them, and if they're yanking our chain, we deny them a platform; that's standard response. We report to local authorities where ascertainable and let the experts in this sort of thing take over. There are many reasons why editors here should not get involved. --Rodhullandemu 23:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Worth pointing out this again. --Rodhullandemu 00:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I never actually seen that link you provided, so I wasn't completely aware of the policy. Had heard of it, but never read it fully. Now I understand, thanks. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 10, 2008 @ 00:15
- Wouldn't that be a bad thing in case this person really is serious? Maybe try and talk to them? I figure it is just someone messing around, but I guess I always err on the side of caution on these things. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 9, 2008 @ 23:48
- That link is an essay, not policy. We also didn't follow the essay. Chergles (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, it's standard to do this as it prevents them from doing it again. Theresa Knotttoken threats 23:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I think our response was one of the worse possible. The person might have already killed themselves. We could have done better. I think the spectrum of responses, from worst to best is:
Z. &#*$, go kill yourself idiot.
Y. block the person with no explanation.
X. block the person with a nice explanation.
.
.
D. ignore the problem.
C. contact WMF, ISP, or police.
B. if you personally know the person, visit the user and seek clarification.
A. (another answer?)
Chergles (talk) 01:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I kinda understand why blocking would be a good idea. If the person really is suicidal we don't want anything to push him/her over the edge. Yeah, it probably isn't the best idea, but we aren't trained anythings. We looked up the IP, someone can call either the Ontario Provincial Police or the RCMPs and let them know and they (being trained in this kinda thing) can handle it. We can't, we are just editors at a website essentially. - NeutralHomer • Talk • December 10, 2008 @ 01:26
"I got a letter the other day. It said, 'Darling, I love you. Marry me, or I will kill myself.' Of course I was rather disturbed at that, until I looked at the envelope and noticed it was addressed to 'Occupant'." -- Tom Lehrer -- Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I started a CU case, but didn't move it to the main page.Synchronism (talk) 04:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nothing stops us from blocking the account, getting a CU and notifying the police. I'm unhappy that blocking the account is listed next to "go kill yourself" on the spectrum of responses. We do the same thing with bomb threats and other situations where harm could conceivably come from the person on the other end of the line. This is just a website. We do not automatically become grief counselors by virtue of editing here. We should, as a matter of human dignity, attempt to extend help to the person. We should also, as a matter of practicality, not let it interfere with the rest of the encyclopedia. For one, we don't want someone who doesn't care to run into it and say "go kill yourself". Two, in the likely event that it is someone trolling us, it limits the impact. Protonk (talk) 18:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
A recent attempt to attack my computer
See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Intrusion attempts on edit pages?. seicer talk contribs 15:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Nortons Firewall has detected a recent attempt to attack my computer comming from Wikipedia.
- The risk name; HTTP Acrobat PDF Suspicious File Download.
- Risk Level; High
- Attacking Computer; en.wikipedia.org (208.80.152.2, 80)
- Whois search: Confirms Wiki foundations owns 208.80.152.2.
- Destination Address; My computer, router #1, router #2... end destination 192.168.0.xxx, 50172 (my computer)
- Traffic Description; TCP, www-htp
- Note: The attack happens everytime I click on the edit button to edit Wikipedia content. --CyclePat (talk) 15:22, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- There is a related thread at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Intrusion attempts on edit pages? DuncanHill (talk) 15:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Another related thread at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Wikipedia triggering Norton Internet Security alerts. DuncanHill (talk) 15:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Julianna Rose Mauriello
The last 2 comments in this discussion (minus my own in the middle) are making me nervous. One user (User:Sethacus) accuses an IP of being a "famous" (at least Google-able) scammer, posting a real name, and the other (User:98.97.199.70) posts his own location, then goes on to post the age of Sethacus, nearly accuses him of being a pedophile, and makes a veiled threat ("you are treading on very thin ice right now"). User:98.97.199.70 claims to also be User:67.234.104.242 and has already gotten into hot water claiming to be the actress' brother. It seems arguments from other sites (IMDB is mentioned) might be making their way here. I think both of them need to be spoken to. RainbowOfLight Talk 23:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- WP:BLP nightmare. I've had this article watched for as long as I can remember, and many unreliable sources in relation to it have been cast into the fires of hell. With regard to the current position, I've told the IP in no uncertain terms that WP:OTRS is the correct route for complaints, and that we don't believe him. This is nothing new, because this person has been told this previously. If he really is the brother and concerned about the subject of the article, he will take our advice; OTOH, if he is a crank, he won't. Simple as that. --Rodhullandemu 01:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, Rodhullandemu, but my concern is that they are starting to post each others' personal information here on Wikipedia, make threats (however veiled), and just that this argument of theirs does not need to take place on Wikipedia at all. Right now the article's talk page does not feel like a safe place to me at all, and it could be scaring others away. IIRC Sethacus had a previous username here which he changed due to a very similar issue of someone giving him trouble here on Wikipedia over Julianna Rose Mauriello, and calling him a stalker. (My point being that this is not the first time he has been involved in such a situation on Wikipedia.) RainbowOfLightTalk 03:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I suppose the commotion is over this Youtube video, which is showing signs of being viral. Looking at the comments, people are unusually interested in her legality. bibliomaniac15 04:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, Rodhullandemu, but my concern is that they are starting to post each others' personal information here on Wikipedia, make threats (however veiled), and just that this argument of theirs does not need to take place on Wikipedia at all. Right now the article's talk page does not feel like a safe place to me at all, and it could be scaring others away. IIRC Sethacus had a previous username here which he changed due to a very similar issue of someone giving him trouble here on Wikipedia over Julianna Rose Mauriello, and calling him a stalker. (My point being that this is not the first time he has been involved in such a situation on Wikipedia.) RainbowOfLightTalk 03:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I think it's time someone archived that section and told both anonymous users (and User:Sethacus as well) not to comment on anyone else's real life, whether they claim to be her brother or otherwise. Warn them that if they claim to be a personal friend, without an OTRS request, just wipe it off the talk page into the archives. They can scream fascist or whatever but it's time to bring a hammer on that talk page. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Fine I did it. I think we need to go with a archive, warn about OTRS and ignore strategy for him. He'll either clue in that any discussion of his personal life is irrelevant or keep it up until he gets blocked longer and longer. At some point, he'll get bored. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:24, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
User talk:193.172.170.26
This IP address has been putting random spam messages on user talk pages. It's not really vandalism per say but I personally find it annoying. Maybe a block is in order.Nrswanson (talk) 09:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Trolling and spamming. Blocked for a month by an admin. His request for unblock is mildly amusing: "This is far to heavy man!" (sic) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 09:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Persistent image copyright violator
Red marquis (talk • contribs • logs) has been uploading copyrighted images to Wikipedia since 2005. This user has received numerous warnings on his talk page but has virtually ignored them. As far as I can tell this user has only edited his user talk page to remove these warnings, never discussing the problems. I could only find two instances of this user communicating with another user on their talk page, once in 2006 and once 2007. It is obvious that this user hasn't learned from all the warnings, as he uploaded several copyrighted Porsche images yesterday. I am very surprised that this user has managed to continue this behavior for so long without a block. swaq 16:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I blocked for a week, deleting the images now. Secret account 16:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Semi'd this page
Seems the IP's just wait for it to stop being protected and hit it again, so I set the term a couple days forward, although if anyone wants to un-edit protect this page at some point, don't have any problem with it, although I'd recommend being ready to re-semi it. SirFozzie (talk) 17:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Markdav
Markdav (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) seems to be Kevin Bishop, or perhaps Kevin Bishop's agent, or mum. He has no edit history outside of pages about Kevin Bishop, the Kevin Bishop Show, and Kevin Bishop's antics at the 2008 British Comedy Awards, and all of his edits have been to remove or mollify less flattering facts about Bishop.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.29.156 (talk) 02:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think this removal is what precipitated the comment here. Considering WP:BLP I think it was appropriate. The IP has provided little convincing evidence of a COI, and I'm not sure there's a particular need for admin intervention at this point. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 18:04, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I suspect that this will not be the end of the matter. The latest version includes an account of the incident in question -- Bishop's behavior at a 2008 awards ceremony -- that is more neutral than the version Markdav reverted. However, Markdav's latest version also contains an account of that incident, but in less detail. The best solution would be for the people involved to avoid an edit war & hash out the differences on the talk page, & if that is not successful then take it either to conflict resolution or the appropriate BLP forum. -- llywrch (talk) 19:10, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Jacky cole
This bizarre (and blocked) user, whom I suspect to be a sock of another user, is insisting on disrupting this site via his talk page a day after his block. I've redirected the talk page to the user page, but I'd like to request the talk page be locked down. Thanks. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Have protected the talk page. bibliomaniac15 04:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- For future reference, please use Wikipedia:Requests for page protection (WP:RFPP) for requests like this. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Vandalism Went Unnoticed
It seams that almost 4 months ago the page created for the Dividead visual novel was vandalized and transformed into a page about the death metal band Dividead. Not that i don't think the band doesn't deserve a page but stealing another articles page should be considered vandalism, i will not post the person who changed it here since it's just an IP address and don't consider it appropriate. To verify my claim it is only necessary to view the oldest page(s) in History, or at least the ones under 2008-08-07T13:10:06. I hope something can be done to satisfy both parts and an edit war doesn't start.--AlucardNoir 17:53, 11 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlucardNoir (talk • contribs)
- It's unclear to me whether either the
bookgame(?) or the band should have an encyclopedia article. But, this is an issue for the page- I don't see that administrative action is needed. Friday(talk) 17:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)- To quote WP:Vandalism: "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia" (emph original). I have serious doubts that whomever replaced the content at Dividead had the intention of compromising the integrity of Wikipedia, and genuinely believed he/she was correcting the entry. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 18:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Let's see ... someone involved with the articles creates 2 pages ... Dividead (band) and Dividead (book) and turn the current Dividead into a disambig page. Problem solved. ►BMW◄ 18:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's no need for a disambiguation page; it seems the name of the visual novel is in fact Divi-dead. Revert the other back to the band, add some hatnotes and everyone goes away happy. SteveT • C 20:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Looks good. I've restored the band article at Dividead and added hatnotes. Looks like Divi-dead was already created so I've added hatnotes to that and fixed the naming problems. I wonder if we need to do a histmerge? —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 21:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Did you have any reaosn to copy any substantive text from one article to the other (ie, other than Wikipedia housekeeping like templates and categories)? If not, a history merge isn't needed. If you've copied something more substantive, a quick and dirty way would be to revert yourself and then restore with an edit summary that links directly to the Last Known Good diff of the article you copied from. Problem solved, I believe. ➨ ❝ЯEDVERS❞ takes life at five times the average speed 22:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Looks good. I've restored the band article at Dividead and added hatnotes. Looks like Divi-dead was already created so I've added hatnotes to that and fixed the naming problems. I wonder if we need to do a histmerge? —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 21:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There's no need for a disambiguation page; it seems the name of the visual novel is in fact Divi-dead. Revert the other back to the band, add some hatnotes and everyone goes away happy. SteveT • C 20:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Let's see ... someone involved with the articles creates 2 pages ... Dividead (band) and Dividead (book) and turn the current Dividead into a disambig page. Problem solved. ►BMW◄ 18:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- To quote WP:Vandalism: "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia" (emph original). I have serious doubts that whomever replaced the content at Dividead had the intention of compromising the integrity of Wikipedia, and genuinely believed he/she was correcting the entry. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 18:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Thegreatestmoever (and sockpuppets)
User:Thegreatestmoever was a rather idiotic vandal who pretty quickly got blocked, and loved leaving offensive messages on the user pages of admins and others who reverted his changes or blocked him. It seems he's back with some sockpuppet accounts now, leaving nasty messages on the talk page of one of the admins previously involved. Here is a diff of the guy leaving offensive messages as User:Thegreatestmoever8, here as User:Thegreatestmoever2, and here as User:Thegreatestmoever10. All these messages appear to include moronic rape threats, and general unpleasantness. Other than that there has been more generic vandalism from these accounts, such as here (from Thegreatestmoever2), here (from Thegreatestmoever3), and here (from Thegreatestmoever7). He also claims often that "his friend" is doing the vandalism, even though he's been told that's not an excuse, and I'd bet he's created some non-Thegreatestmoever accounts so someone with the power to do so may wish to check IP addresses used by those accounts, and what other activity has come from them. Just thought someone should be made aware of all this, anyway. Xmoogle (talk) 18:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- See also: [124]ArakunemTalk 18:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Arakunem, that list of usernames is handy. Most of those seem unused, however, as I'd checked using the User Contributions page through all of those names, and only edits by 2, 3, 7, 8 and 10 existed. Xmoogle (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Categorized all into Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Thegreatestmoever. — Satori Son 19:24, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks Arakunem, that list of usernames is handy. Most of those seem unused, however, as I'd checked using the User Contributions page through all of those names, and only edits by 2, 3, 7, 8 and 10 existed. Xmoogle (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Stalking by User:Orpheus
User:Orpheus has elected to resume an editing dispute that I had hoped to end with a monthlong absence from the encyclopedia. In late October, Orpheus joined an editing dispute at Geoff Simpson over the inclusion of an arrest record that I believed was a BLP violation and I strongly opposed ahead of election day in the United States (which at that point was only about 5 days away). His contribs show that immediately prior, he had posted to the talk page of User:TastyPoutine, where User:HoboJones had just posted a comment trying to recruit TastyPoutine's involvement in the matter and in this way I believe he was initially biased in his edits. As that dispute grew into an increasingly bitter edit war, Orpheus reported it here, which was largely ignored, then began to leave snide remarks at my own talk page. Orpheus then reported me to 3RR and I was blocked for edit warring. Because HoboJones and Orpheus were both assisting each other in that edit war, neither breached 3RR and so neither was blocked.
After going through my contribs, Orpheus expanded the conflict to a dispute over the hatnote and dab page at The Rite of Spring where I had just removed a note, and where Orpheus had never previously edited before. Orpheus then monitored my contributions very carefully and, after I had made three consecutive edits to Dino Rossi, he immediately posted a notice (after which I made 0 reverts to the disputed article) and then immediately reported me again to 3RR and secured a second block. Though I don't believe I had technically violated 3RR, and though I had made 0 edits after his warning, and though the other party in that dispute wasn't blocked, mine was upheld after an appeal.
Aware that my edits were being closely monitored by Orpheus, I took a monthlong hiatus from the encyclopedia, since I don't believe I would have been productive with that user so eager to engage in editing disputes and to abusively use process to have me blocked in retaliation. When I returned yesterday, Orpheus resumed this conflict at the DAB page for Rites of Spring, but not before rifling through my contributions and taking another stab at me at a page he had previously made 0 edits to: CouchSurfing. I would ask that an administrator request of Orpheus that he restrain himself from continuing to stalk me across numerous pages and through numerous disputes and that he desist from attempting to intervene in any of my edits from this point forward. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 05:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- After reviewing the dispute at Geoff Simpson, I came across this, which is discouraging for two reasons: 1. I was wrong and the ongoing dispute at Geoff Simpson goes beyond just Orpheus. 2. There is an even greater depth to the abuse of process that I had not expected from those people. It is becoming increasingly apparent that if I ever want to resume editing Wikipedia again, I will have to waste hours and days going through all of this anytime I want to make a simple edit to anything.
- If there is any administrator that can advise me on what to do so that I can finally be free of all this baggage and resume editing again, I'm all ears. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 07:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You do realize that at some point, when everyone disagrees with you, it might not be a conspiracy against you so much as plain consensus is again you, right? I'm not saying that's what's going on but it's a possibility. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, what exactly are you referring to? Are you saying that a three person consensus annuls my involvement in this project? Cumulus Clouds (talk) 08:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nobody said anything about annuling anything. However, we work on consensus and it appears the consensus is different than your opinion on that issue. All that to say maybe you were wrong. Toddst1(talk) 16:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Wrong about what exactly? What does consensus not support me in? Cumulus Clouds (talk) 20:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- He appears to mean that maybe you were wrong about the Geoff Simpson issue, since consensus on the talk page has gone against you.
I would add to that that maybe you are wrong about removing the hatnote on The Rite of Spring, since you have been reverted on that 4 times. --IllaZilla (talk) 01:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)- This is not the forum to debate that issue. You should confine yourself to the AFD. I haven't edited Geoff Simpson since late October, so that dispute is hardly relevant in this context. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 01:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nobody said anything about annuling anything. However, we work on consensus and it appears the consensus is different than your opinion on that issue. All that to say maybe you were wrong. Toddst1(talk) 16:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, what exactly are you referring to? Are you saying that a three person consensus annuls my involvement in this project? Cumulus Clouds (talk) 08:09, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- You do realize that at some point, when everyone disagrees with you, it might not be a conspiracy against you so much as plain consensus is again you, right? I'm not saying that's what's going on but it's a possibility. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm going to try discussing this with Orpheus first, so I'll suspend this notice for about 12 hours pending the outcome of that discussion. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 08:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- This is awaiting the outcome of a discussion on Orpheus's talk page. It may not need administrator intervention. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 01:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Too many alert parts
Its too many alert parts in the Reporting of vandalism page. The Rolling Camel (talk) 00:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Looks like a bot problem...--Smashvilletalk 00:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Undo function acting strange?
Is it just my computer, or is the undo function not working properly? Several times today I tried to undo a word or two, but the change shown before I save is several sections long. Ward3001 (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I just saw that. The preview was crazy but it saved just fine. Grsz11 00:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Per the link on the above thread, there seems to have been a MediaWiki update. --Smashvilletalk 01:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Related thread at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#"Undo" button acting weird. DuncanHill (talk) 01:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User Here Cometh the Milkman
This new user, with all the editing skills of a seasoned campaigner, has begun a program of tendentious editing (huge deletions from long-stable articles and edit warring). Please have a look at his contributions thus far. He seems to be stalking me in particular by targeting articles I've worked on extensively. I am not completely sure, but I suspect he is a sockpuppet for another tendentious editor, Andyvphil, based on his behaviour and the articles he is warring over, specifically Bill Moyers. I would appreciate some action please. ► RATEL ◄ 20:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I started with a plain question to them as to why a new user would choose this path. We'll go on from there. ➨ ❝ЯEDVERS❞a sweet and tender hooligan 20:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Based on lets call it a gut feeling, the fact that the IPs that the milkman is edit-warring in tandem with are geolocated in chicago, behavior, tone, etc followed by this edit to Acorn [[126]] (basically seeking to revert to something that veered ever so slightly towards an edit war a few days ago, before his accounts first edit)... I feel the following past discussions may be useful.
- I can guarantee you all that I am no one's sockpuppet. I am sure there are ways to verify this. Secondly, as I explained Ratel reverted an edit of mine. I found it rude that he did not offer a reason, and after a quick glance of his contributions he seems to be an agenda driven editor and I took the liberty to roll back some of his more egregious edits, namely material relating to Matt Drudges sexuality, which appear to be completely in violation of the rules here. 21:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Here Cometh the Milkman (talk • contribs)
Anyone interested, lets start with Bill Moyers. Milkman's first edit on wikipedia [[129]] sought to revert to precisely the same language favored by this IP [[130]] geolocated in Chicago the day before his account was created. He provides no edit summary nor does he go to talk. Ratel reverts, and contrary to Milkman's claim above that "he did not offer a reason" Ratel did in fact offer a reason [[131]] and tries to clue him to how things work on Milkman's talkpage [[132]]
Then Milkman reverts [[133]] again, Ratel re-reverts (visible in that last dif), Milkman re-re-reverts [[134]] Then another user reverts Milkman and he reverts this, though he does address one of his earlier spelling errors [[135]]. I see this thread, hear quacking, and i revert. [[136]].
Tune in soon for another episode in this unfolding drama, same Milkchannel, same Milktime, different wikipedia article.Bali ultimate (talk) 21:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Ratel's "reason" (if one can call it that) was that the material was unforced. That’s a lot of manure because the source was the exact same as the one already used in the article.
- My text from the article:
In 2005 former deputy Attorney General and fuederal judge Laurence Silberman stated that Moyers denied writing the memo in a 1975 phone call claiming it was a CIA plant, however Moyers responded that Silberman's account of the conversation was at odds with his.
- Text from the source
Only a few weeks before the 1964 election, a powerful presidential assistant, Walter Jenkins, was arrested in a men's room in Washington. Evidently, the president was concerned that Barry Goldwater would use that against him in the election. Another assistant, Bill Moyers, was tasked to direct Hoover to do an investigation of Goldwater's staff to find similar evidence of homosexual activity. Mr. Moyers' memo to the FBI was in one of the files.
When the press reported this, I received a call in my office from Mr. Moyers. Several of my assistants were with me. He was outraged; he claimed that this was another example of the Bureau salting its files with phony CIA memos. I was taken aback. I offered to conduct an investigation, which if his contention was correct, would lead me to publicly exonerate him. There was a pause on the line and then he said, "I was very young. How will I explain this to my children?" And then he rang off. I thought to myself that a number of the Watergate figures, some of whom the department was prosecuting, were very young, too.
- So tell me how Ratel can claim that this was unsourced?
- As far as his "clueing me in" I don’t see how a standard boilerplate warning constitutes an explanation. Here Cometh the Milkman (talk) 21:48, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- You know for someone who assures us they are nobody's sock you certainly are quick at picking up the lingo. Theresa Knott token threats 21:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- This conversation will have to resume in 24 hours or so - unless someone wants to unblock in the meanwhile. SHEFFIELDSTEELTALK 21:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- It's an obvious sock of somebody, a 2-day account here solely to edit war on American politics articles. What good can come of this? Wikidemon (talk) 22:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- He's raising, almost word-for-word, the same arguments used by Andyvphil on the Bill Moyers talk page a few months ago. The disruption and tendentious editing there earned Andyvphil a long block. I suspect he's back — the editing style, fearless reverts and cavalier attitude is identical. ► RATEL ◄ 22:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- What strikes me is the marked familiarity with Wikipedia policies and procedures. He is obviously someone's sock. Because of the areas of interest and the particular POV being pushed, I was thinking BryanFromPalatine, but the edits do look more like Andyvphil, on closer inspection of that user's edit history. Is a checkuser in order here? --GoodDamon 22:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- It might not be BfP -- the spelling and syntax are even worse, for one. Just chiming in to let anyone who cares that andyvphil does not appear to be blocked. Had a 1 month block long ago, which expired and that user didn't resume editing. Unless i misread something.Bali ultimate (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I occasionally visit Chicago. I hardly think that someone editing from such a large urban center is reasonable cause for a check user request.Die4Dixie (talk) 22:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I just noticed this response, and I must say, it's kind of weird, Die4Dixie. Who said anything about Chicago? --GoodDamon 01:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- It rules out 95% of all American editors, so a brand new account joining an edit war initiated by IPs from the same town is a strong indication they are the same. The editing history itself (new abusive SPA created to edit war on politics articles) is strongly indicative of sockpuppetry. The combination of factors is persuasive but not conclusive. The need to keep Wikipedia stable in this case should outweigh any interest the new account holder has in anonymity / privacy. Wikidemon (talk) 20:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- What strikes me is the marked familiarity with Wikipedia policies and procedures. He is obviously someone's sock. Because of the areas of interest and the particular POV being pushed, I was thinking BryanFromPalatine, but the edits do look more like Andyvphil, on closer inspection of that user's edit history. Is a checkuser in order here? --GoodDamon 22:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- (snip long comment by me, have moved to Acorn neutrality dispute heading lower down). Will note that the milkman seems to be tied into some of the goins on at the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now article.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- See also WP:ANI#NEutrality dispute at ACORN below. Given the evidence provided by Bali ultimate above, it appears that there may be some use of sock puppets to avoid 3RR. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:15, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- D4D. Are you "wiki-legalizing" sock-puppetry to "solve" an NPOV dispute at an article or did I misinterpret your comment? You know it is not about content here, it is about puppetry and edit-warring.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- What? I'm not sure I understand what your not understanding of what I said means you think I said. I mean that Bali Ultimate and others remove the templates in a coordinated way ,and then Lulu started in. I should have said meat puppet to make it clearer. Sorry for the confusion. What I was saying is that Will's deductions are correct in substance; however, the identifaction of who the problem is is mistaken.Die4Dixie (talk) 01:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- D4D. Are you "wiki-legalizing" sock-puppetry to "solve" an NPOV dispute at an article or did I misinterpret your comment? You know it is not about content here, it is about puppetry and edit-warring.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 23:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I would have called you a meat puppet since you by yourself didn't provide a reason for the template on talk but I assumed you're conform regarding the edits of that editor who placed the template after being "mad" because his edit(s) where reversed. This editor didn't had a GF reason or at least no RS (for his edit) to do so but still, you reinstated the template without providing a reason by yourself. This is what struck me as non-proper. Now this "editor" (which we both agree is involved in some kind of puppetry) gave some explanation at talk but without any sourcing at all, making it just a personal allegation which doesn't have any merit on WP. Guess we can agree on this? So if I'm not mistaken you based your revert(s) first on his unexplained and much later unsourced explanation at the talk page. Mostly just watching this page (since it's soooo exiting :) ) I was honestly stunned that you reinstated the template without stating your own reason and then (I guess) with uncited allegations of "that" editor. Just agreeing in general with such is not enough to do so. An article is not out of balance when leaving out negative information that is not RS and therefore doesn't deserve any template disputing balance if there is no source to back negatives up in reliable fashion. Well, enough of that. After having a power outage and also to do other things on the side (and not being a linguistic ace) I won't reread this and just send it. Hopefully it makes sense. Ouh, and I reversed that template once too. So much for "meat puppetry ;) --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 04:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Are we looking at the same talk page which I made reference to the tag, gave a reason, and encouraged Sinaticus to give his own so that we could all work together (even Bali) to resolving the issue? That page ? Acorn talk page .Of course, I didnt put my reasons on the article page. This has a surreal quality to it, are you pulling my chain?Die4Dixie (talk) 04:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Editors "coordinating" to defend an article against abusive sockpuppets is just fine - it's article patrol. If the same editors decide that you are a problem too and gang up on you, which they seem to have done, that is a mistake. Although it's not right, surely you can understand why they might have gotten that impression. If you put your arm the middle of a dogfight it could get bitten.Wikidemon (talk) 01:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hey! Dog-fights mean several things but don't talk about putting a dog down while I'm present because you won't have a change ;) --The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, but Bali Ultimate has had a long history in his short time here of making accustations and bad faith assumptions. All I have said is the tag should stay , my arcticle edits have been good faith attempts to improve the article. If he views this as a dog fight, then he should do something else. Rabid dogs that bite are put down, to use your analogy, and he is out of control.Die4Dixie (talk) 01:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Difs please on my "long history." As to you, your contentious, rude and disruptive behavior here [[137]] (in support of syntacticus' effort to force in false and potentially libelous material into the article) makes it hard to assume you're a good faith editor. You chose to play those games and communicate that way. If others find it exasperating and take you less seriously for playing the fool, don't blame them.Bali ultimate (talk) 02:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- My oh my how we forget. the conversation was an academic one. I never advocated including it, but rather gave a better source for it. He obviously wasn't interested in using it, mott point. I even said i wasn't advocating its inclusion. It was incredible that you put so much effort to object to it when you seemed happier than a pig in shit that the Huffington post piece, an opinion piece, was a the linch pin of a section. Thanks to your brilliant expounding on why the WSJ wasn't reliable, I was able to remove the offending Huff post piece using your wise reasoning. I look forward to your supporting my in its removal as vigorously as you objected to the WSJ. Any hoo. You several times accused me of being some Brian of Palatine sock untill I allowed you my IP address to finally silence your abusive rants. If I need to collect the diffs, I will, so tell me if you want them brought to this forum or not. They are stale now, because I couldn't be bothered then and you were new so I gave you a lot of leeway. You are no longer new, you look for trouble, and are contentious. Your edits tend to show you to be extremely rigid EG your reverting my neutrality tag with out addressing my vocalized concerns on the talkpage. I am not Synticaticus or what ever his name is ,and my complaints have individual merits, independent of your feeling about that editor. I'd be willing to let this all go now and work out the rest of the neutrality problems via talk , if you are. The edits that I made to the article space were attempts to improve the article (which they did) I ridded it of instanaces peacock prose, removed the "wrong" aspect of the firings ( which you rigidily couldn't understand, and even people who agree with you politics had to graudgingly admit I was right.
- Difs please on my defense of the huffpo piece. As i recall it ended up there in response to other opinion pieces critical of the organization, balancing them out (and not added by me). I'm happy to see it go -- and have advocated for it going in the past. I'll get the diff when i proposed the use of conyers from a news article instead. So, I'm done here with you. If you make accusations against me, provide some diffs. Otherwise, work honestly and stop playing games. Oh and by the way while "huffpo piece says acorn is being smeared" is weak "right wing piece that makes false accusations of trading cocaine for votes" is far, far worse.Bali ultimate (talk) 02:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- jsut so we are clear here, I never advocated the use of the piece in question. i suggested he use the WSJ , of which you said you had a stack by your computer. This is my last post here, you can use your talk page if you want to discuss this futher, or mine, or the talk page at the article. If you need the last word, you van now have it, if not, I'll just ake it now.Die4Dixie (talk) 05:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Ungtss at baraminology
Summary: Repeated removal/alteration/qualification of heavily cited lead text; persistent re-introduction of content written from POV. Both disputes have been taken to the talk page. Informed many times that this should not be done, and why. Still a problem.
Background: Ungtss has contributed to a variety of articles, usually in 'bulk' form (writing several paragraphs from scratch). Knows about baraminology, and has made bulk contributions in the past, usually describing its the processes and terms in detail (or, with verbosity). Every once in a while a new user or ip removes what they consider to be "pro-science, anti-ID" content from the article. User_talk:Gracie_Allan recently did this, was reverted, and I left a message on her talk informing her and asking for her input. She's now commenting at talk. Ungtss seems to have joined her, it appears seeing this as an opportunity:
a) to remove, alter, and comment out heavily cited statements that characterize baraminology as pseudoscience. There are either removed, or needless qualification ("seen by the scientific community as") is inserted. See [138] [139][and others]. This dispute been taken to the talk page where there is ongoing discussion. The user has been asked to stop these changes at their user talk, in edit summaries, and in the article talk. (At talk, the user refuses to reply to comments in a "non-threaded" manner; injects comments into those of another, when this was brought up on his talk he recopied the whole exchange into a new section.)
b) to add large new sections to the article. This isn't itself bad, however, the new sections describe baraminology "in the context of baraminology", which is to say they're written entirely in that POV. When adding new sections, moves large ref blocks from other passages into them (though leaving a refname=x/) making it difficult to edit the new sections; user has been asked to stop. The moved ref frequently does not support the newly-written sentence. Tried moving sections to talk; user rewrote/reverted section (including unrelated additions of citations, and other changes). Currently inline comments and {fact}s are being used to inform user of how to change their paragraphs to comply with policy/style. User has responded by commenting out sourced statements that are 'anti' baraminology.
If cited statements in the lead are changed, and the change is reverted and a discussion started in talk, further "rewordings" of the statements should be prohibited. Keeping large newly-added POV sections in the article itself (with comments and {fact}s) is a courtesy, and if these sections are moved to the talk with justification the user should not rewrite and re-add the same sections, but rather discuss changes, and potentially ask for arbitration. Please prohibit the user from changing cited statements themselves, and from re-inserting large bulk sections. –MT 21:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- How is this a matter for admins? Have you tried, and exhausted, the methods listed in WP:DR to bring in outside editors to help with this dispute? Is there any evidence that multiple, outside editors have weighed in on the issues and that civil attempts have been made to argue your case? Has there been any attempt to work this out besides running to ANI to ask for a block? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 00:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was informed by an administrator that if one makes a significant change to an article and has that change reverted, then they are to take the issue to talk, and not attempt to reintroduce the material in question until consensus is met. The discussion is moving along fine, the issue is that the user continues reverting[140][141] against long term consensus[142][143][144][145][146] regarding a controversial issue, and reverting to text that is under discussion in talk. He doesn't need to be blocked, but a warning or clarification of rules would be nice. Posting here is, I hope, a better idea than reverting his edits until he explains himself at talk. –MT 04:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- M's argument appears to be premised on the belief that the other users making those changes are socks. That premise is incorrect. Those repeated edits are being made by other users. The talk page shows that I have made efforts to discuss things with M, and that he had declined to participate. As a side note, his evidence for "consensus" on the topic consists in a number of different users dissenting with the "consensus" and being summarily reverted. Odd evidence for the existence of a "consensus," to say the least.Ungtss (talk) 05:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Users whose only edit is to blank out/change cited text do not count against the consensus. Two replies have for a few days awaited Ungtss at talk. An admin needs to clarify policy here. If new text is reverted, and taken to talk, is it permissible to repeatedly revert back to the text? –MT 03:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- 1. So in your opinion, an editor does not count against consensus about the wording of a particular sentence if he or she alters the sentence in question? What must one do to count against consensus? Not change the sentence?
- 2. Three times I have asked you where those replies are. You have merely responded, "it's above." I addressed each of your points in turn, and either you have not responded or I am not smart enough to find your responses on the page. Please tell me where your responses are, because I do not see them on the talk page.
- 3. I have not reverted any text, ever. Multiple editors have noticed the POV sentence in question, and attributed the opinion to its source -- consistent with NPOV. The editors reverting those edits, unfortunately, have confused fact and POV when it comes to sources whose POVs they find particularly credible. Ungtss (talk) 04:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Users whose only edit is to blank out/change cited text do not count against the consensus. Two replies have for a few days awaited Ungtss at talk. An admin needs to clarify policy here. If new text is reverted, and taken to talk, is it permissible to repeatedly revert back to the text? –MT 03:54, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- M's argument appears to be premised on the belief that the other users making those changes are socks. That premise is incorrect. Those repeated edits are being made by other users. The talk page shows that I have made efforts to discuss things with M, and that he had declined to participate. As a side note, his evidence for "consensus" on the topic consists in a number of different users dissenting with the "consensus" and being summarily reverted. Odd evidence for the existence of a "consensus," to say the least.Ungtss (talk) 05:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was informed by an administrator that if one makes a significant change to an article and has that change reverted, then they are to take the issue to talk, and not attempt to reintroduce the material in question until consensus is met. The discussion is moving along fine, the issue is that the user continues reverting[140][141] against long term consensus[142][143][144][145][146] regarding a controversial issue, and reverting to text that is under discussion in talk. He doesn't need to be blocked, but a warning or clarification of rules would be nice. Posting here is, I hope, a better idea than reverting his edits until he explains himself at talk. –MT 04:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Ban proposal of Ianxp
I think that it's high time for Ian to go. It hasn't even been a month since he joined, and yet he already has a large sock farm, has made crude personal attacks, gamed the system, and has made a vicious and potentially dangerous threat. He also says that he will continue to disrupt Wikipedia. Anyone agree on banning Ian from editing Wikipedia? --Dylan620 Contribs Sign! 00:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oops, didn't see this. --Dylan620ContribsSign! 00:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Please continue this discussion over at WP:AN#Ban proposals to avoid duplication. EdJohnston (talk) 04:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Latest attempt to censor “Phi Kappa Psi”
There have been a long-running series of attempts to censor the “University of Virginia” section of “Phi Kappa Psi”, which section concerns a rape or rapes.
In the latest of these, Led by truth made a series of nine edits to the article as a whole, most of which appear to be improving or at least innocuous, but the last of which
- obscured that it was an edit of the section in question;
- removed a citation of an article in which, amongst other things, a Deputy Commonwealth Attorney is quoted supporting a contention by the victim that there were multiple rapists, and further asserting that the rapists were members of the fraternity; and
- applied a {{fact}} tag to a report that the State had asserted that the victim was gang-raped by a William Beebe and by members of the fraternity.
Even if the other characteristics of this edit weren't enough to discredit an initial assumption of good faith, the removal of the citation surely is. This willfully unconstructive editing was reverted, and the editor was warned.
In response, he is wikilawyering on my talk page. I feel that, since I am not an administrator, I shouldn't be left to mop-up here. I would appreciate it if an adminsitrator would tell the editor in question to refrain from such edits, and to refrain from drowning the pages of other editors in such pettifogging. —SlamDiego←T 00:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- That's not wikilawyering; it's scrupulous verifiability checking with respect to a BLP concern. Kudos to Led by truth, says I. Hesperian 01:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Beebe is tied to the fraternity. As the cited sources note, the national office admits that Beebe lived in the frat house. (The article notes this point later in the section.) Led by truth isn't trying to dispute that Beebe is tied to the fraternity, but is objecting to a finer-point claim that Beebe was a member as if the article makes such a claim, which it doesn't. —SlamDiego←T 01:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- The distinction has already been made clear. On top of never claiming that Beebe was member, the section goes on to state explicitly that the national office denies that he was ever a member. You're lost in the fog that Led by truth has thrown up. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- (EC)The edit looks solid. He cleaned up the text, added a fact tag to a point of contention, and supported his contention that it requires citation in a carefully written essay. I do, however, note that he does make the usual vague hand-waving legal mumbo jumbo pseudo-threat about how bad libel is. The editor should be warned about doing that. I will leave him a link to the appropriate essay and notify him of this thread next, but I don't see anything wrong here. ThuranX (talk) 01:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- The quote is full is:
- "The allegation in this statement affect the lives of living people—the men who were brothers of that fraternity chapter at that time—and it affects the organization as well. / You are probably aware that if you insist on publishing unsubstantiated, harmful, allegations you risk subjecting yourself and Wikipedia to possible legal action with potentially severe consequences. / I believe that the wisest course of action is to find citations that verify the statement as written, which evidently is unlikely, or to correct the statement."
- I'm curious as to what makes this a legal threat, as opposed to a succinct summary of the legal context in which we edit. If it is a legal threat, then will you also warn whoever added the sentence
- "Wikipedia editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so."
- to WP:BLP? :-) Hesperian 01:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- The quote is full is:
- Not my job. I simply gave him a polite warning about it, and notified him about this thread, and asked him to self-redact to avoid drama. You think it's out of line, feel free to delete my entire comment. Otherwise, so what? We all agree the guy din't do what the complainant alleges, so move on, unless the accused flips his shit. ThuranX (talk) 01:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- The point in contention was supported by a footnote later in the paragraph, which footnote he removed from the article. If he hadn't deleted the footnote and hadn't buried the edit, then an assumption of good would surely prevail. At that stage, there might have been a discussion of whether individual sentences might need separate footnotes, but little more. However, what he did was to remove support for the claim that he challenged as unsupported. —SlamDiego←T 01:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I was and remain unconcerned over whether it were a legal threat (veiled or otherwise). The problem is that, having deleted a citation to enable a claim that an assertion were insufficiently supported, the editor was trying to game the system with wikilawyering. —SlamDiego←T 01:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, but I don't believe that at all. I certainly think he presented his counterargument as if it were a legal brief, but that's more a stylistic choice than any 'wikilawyering'. I saw no particular bandying about of WikiPolicy, nor gross intimidation tactics in his reference to libel, as I've already stated. I asked him to redact that libel bit as a matter of simplicity and ending this, but it seems you are insistent on getting your 'truthful version reinstated. Sorry, but there seems to be support for his edits. Go get citation, and learn what 'wikilawyering' means. it's different than real lawyering. ThuranX (talk) 01:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Please note the very definition of “wikilawyering”, especially item 4: “Misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions”, and the references to pettifogging. —SlamDiego←T 01:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Firstly, there is no evidence, nor reason to believe, that Led by truth has "misinterpreted policy". Secondly, "relying on technicalities" means technicalities in Wikipedia policy, not technicalities in what a source actually says. Thirdly, "to justify inappropriate actions" is rather begging the question, since no-one here but you thinks these actions were inappropriate. Fourthly, am I the only person here who can see the irony in quoting "the very definition of 'wikilawyering'" at us. :-) Hesperian 02:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I underscore what I did, rather that the part about misrepresenting policy because I'd rather not be drawn into a debate on what is meant by “policy”; however, the concept and term of “wikilawayering” predates Wikipedia having much in the way of explicit policy statements; any claim that only the technicalities of such statements bear upon the definition is historically false. It's pretty much evident that it is inappropriate to {{fact}}-tag a section after deleting a supporting citation, and to misrepresent an assertion in order to demand that it substantiate a very different claim from that which it makes; I won't here speculate as to why you won't acknowledge such points. I wonder if you can see the irony in your introducing argument over the technicality of whether Led by truth was wikilawyering, only to sneer when the definition was quoted to you. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- "irony in your introducing argument over the technicality of whether Led by truth was wikilawyering"—I'll have a diff for that please. Hesperian 05:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- [147] Plural “your” — quite appropriate given your (thy) appeal to majoritarian sentiment. —SlamDiego←T 05:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, jolly good; ThuranX says something, you accuse me of saying it, but that's okay because you were actually accusing us both of saying it. Guess what? I still didn't fucking say it. Did I? Hesperian 05:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- [147] Plural “your” — quite appropriate given your (thy) appeal to majoritarian sentiment. —SlamDiego←T 05:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- "irony in your introducing argument over the technicality of whether Led by truth was wikilawyering"—I'll have a diff for that please. Hesperian 05:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I underscore what I did, rather that the part about misrepresenting policy because I'd rather not be drawn into a debate on what is meant by “policy”; however, the concept and term of “wikilawayering” predates Wikipedia having much in the way of explicit policy statements; any claim that only the technicalities of such statements bear upon the definition is historically false. It's pretty much evident that it is inappropriate to {{fact}}-tag a section after deleting a supporting citation, and to misrepresent an assertion in order to demand that it substantiate a very different claim from that which it makes; I won't here speculate as to why you won't acknowledge such points. I wonder if you can see the irony in your introducing argument over the technicality of whether Led by truth was wikilawyering, only to sneer when the definition was quoted to you. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Firstly, there is no evidence, nor reason to believe, that Led by truth has "misinterpreted policy". Secondly, "relying on technicalities" means technicalities in Wikipedia policy, not technicalities in what a source actually says. Thirdly, "to justify inappropriate actions" is rather begging the question, since no-one here but you thinks these actions were inappropriate. Fourthly, am I the only person here who can see the irony in quoting "the very definition of 'wikilawyering'" at us. :-) Hesperian 02:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- my two cents; i thinkt aht youre are overacting and triyn got use a minor point of policy that might have been exercised bytter by your complainant to try and get sanctions against a user that you have a edit distupe with. WHy dont you try to use other disputre resolution methos as per WP:DR first and come back if tyour editor is still being unreasonable or "wikilawyering" Smith Jones (talk) 02:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- As a point of note, this controversy has been to mediation and a consensus has been reached for the section. I have been follwing this article for awhile along with SlamDiego. Samwisep86 (talk) 03:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- As Samwisep86 notes, this section has been through dispute resolution. That hasn't (and, really, cannot) stopped attacks by a stream of further anonymous vandals, sockpuppets, meat puppets, and pettifoggers. What I want here is, in effect, a statement from administrators that the defense of the section does not require dealing with pettifogging. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Please note the very definition of “wikilawyering”, especially item 4: “Misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions”, and the references to pettifogging. —SlamDiego←T 01:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- There are no technicalities that he's relying upon. He's pointing out gaps in the citation evidence, and asking for the gaps to be filled. The phrase you quote refers specifically to Wikipedia policies, not to 'technicalities' as regards gaps in the sources, which are absolutely open to re-examination and scrutiny. Stop nagging here, go find the source, and move on. Let me speak even more bluntly: The only reason for you to continue pursuing this here is because you can't find and provide the requested citation, but are emotionally tied to the subject matter, either in the real-world or as a result of your on-wiki efforts to improve the article, and feel the challenge emotionally, and thus are unwilling to concede the point. ThuranX (talk) 02:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- There aren't gaps in the evidence cited. There would be gaps if the article claimed what he insinuates that it claims, but it simply doesn't. Let me speak bluntly: You're the person psychologically over-committed here. You need to acknowledge having been tricked by a straw-man argument into insisting that the article substantiate a claim that it didn't make in the first place. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Holy crap. No, I'm not 'psychologically over-committed'. However, you're knee deep in ad hom territory now. You've got no citations that explicitly place him as a member, and the only denial comes from a party who benefit from denial. He's asking for a clear citation that he was a member, or that there simply was never any connection demonstrated. It's simple, but you refuse to change the article. You're making a scene, by the way. Go handle the problem, sort out the objects to the article, and move on. There's a clear consensus here that he's done nothing wrong. ThuranX (talk) 05:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- It's really absurd for you to object to me as engaged in ad hominem after you presented your theory about my motives. It has been repeatedly noted that Led by truth misrepresents the claim actually made by the article, in order to demand that it defend a different, presumably undefendable claim, if its actual claim is to stand. You refuse to grapple with that fact, but accuse me being blinded by emotion. As to “making a scene”, those arguing on either side can stop making this scene. Personally, I'd prefer that the argument stop by your grappling with the aforementioned distinction between what the article actually says and what Led by truth insists that it must substantiate. —SlamDiego←T 06:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Holy crap. No, I'm not 'psychologically over-committed'. However, you're knee deep in ad hom territory now. You've got no citations that explicitly place him as a member, and the only denial comes from a party who benefit from denial. He's asking for a clear citation that he was a member, or that there simply was never any connection demonstrated. It's simple, but you refuse to change the article. You're making a scene, by the way. Go handle the problem, sort out the objects to the article, and move on. There's a clear consensus here that he's done nothing wrong. ThuranX (talk) 05:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- There aren't gaps in the evidence cited. There would be gaps if the article claimed what he insinuates that it claims, but it simply doesn't. Let me speak bluntly: You're the person psychologically over-committed here. You need to acknowledge having been tricked by a straw-man argument into insisting that the article substantiate a claim that it didn't make in the first place. —SlamDiego←T 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- There are no technicalities that he's relying upon. He's pointing out gaps in the citation evidence, and asking for the gaps to be filled. The phrase you quote refers specifically to Wikipedia policies, not to 'technicalities' as regards gaps in the sources, which are absolutely open to re-examination and scrutiny. Stop nagging here, go find the source, and move on. Let me speak even more bluntly: The only reason for you to continue pursuing this here is because you can't find and provide the requested citation, but are emotionally tied to the subject matter, either in the real-world or as a result of your on-wiki efforts to improve the article, and feel the challenge emotionally, and thus are unwilling to concede the point. ThuranX (talk) 02:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Finderskey, User:Fecklesse, User:Franckoise & User:Featheresse
These four users are already the subject of an SSP filing here, filed I think a couple of days ago by another editor (User:NoCal100). However that's stuck in the backlog and in the meantime they are continuing to edit-war some borderline vandalism relating to the assassinated Lebanese politician Elie Hobeika both into the main article about him, and also into Lebanon bombings and assassinations (2004-present). In the last three days, an extensive and totally unencyclopedic eulogy to Hobeika as well as a slew of scrappily written material sourced to blogs has been reverted into his page by one or other of these editors seven times as per the following diffs - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.
This is continuing despite the SSP case, despite numerous warnings (going back months) on the main account's talk page and despite two other editors reverting the material, citing WP:MEMORIAL and the sockpuppet warnings in edit summaries. Neither the main Finderskey account or the alleged socks have ever used edit summaries or posted on the article talk pages to even attempt to explain what they are doing, or responded to the warnings on their own talk pages. I would add that any editor(s) who can get myself and NoCal100 to agree on something must be doing something pretty out there. I'd suggest it's time for a simple block on all four accounts, for vandalism, disruptive editing, edit warring, sockpuppetry and effective 3RR violations - surely at least one of those sticks, if not some combination of most of them? It's not as if there haven't been warnings. --Nickhh (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Still at it this morning, without response to this ANI thread (I did notify them) or to requests for engagement on talk. Help, please? --Nickhh (talk) 11:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- If filed a RFCU, since the sock puppetry has been used to get around 3RR today, but really, I think this is so obvious that a CU is a waste of time. NoCal100 (talk) 15:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Considering I've seen admins swoop from nowhere to dole out no-warning blocks to users for one mildly sarcastic talk page comment, I'm a little confused as to why nothing is done when two separate users - who you'd be hard pushed to get to agree on much else - take the trouble to raise (with full supporting evidence) on this noticeboard a pretty transparent issue of serious and repeated mainspace disruption involving virtually every sin in the WP rulebook, which has been going on intermittently for over a year and where multiple warnings have already been given. If someone has passed over this and thought "content dispute", could they please look again? It's still going on. Thanks. --Nickhh (talk) 08:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User:DinoKingFan11 again
There was an ANI discussion about this user a couple weeks ago but it went stale without anyone really saying anything of note, so here goes again. This user is constantly adding original research to lists of TV episodes, primarily Chowder. It is clear that they are simply guessing what each episode will be about; see this diff as a particular example. ("Chowder's Catering Company", which I just watched, didn't involve anyone getting locked out of the kitchen at all.) This user has absolutely no constructive edits to their credit, just constant addition of almost-always-wrong guesswork. Any attempt to get through to the user has been met with total silence, and their talk page is nothing but warnings. Clearly something needs to be done about this user right away to keep them from adding any more misinformation. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 02:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have blocked him indefinitely. While it's a little harsh for a first block, nothing but nonsense from him and all I'm asking is that he actually respond. If he chooses to, anyone is free to unblock. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Works for me. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 05:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
New sock of User:Yorkshirian
A couple of weeks ago Yorkshirian (talk · contribs) revisted us as Immense sense (talk · contribs), a clone of his previous Gennarous (talk · contribs) (both accounts editing Sicily and related articles from a right-wing, anti-Muslim POV (related AN/I discussion here). Now Beatrixers (talk · contribs) is making identical edits to the Sicily article: these two edits [148] and [149] replicate this one from the earlier sock [150], right down to the identical inclusion of a {{clarifyme}} tag. Can someone please take a look? Thanks, Kafka Liz (talk) 11:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- This edit by Immense sense is identical to some of the changes by Beatrixers. User has been blocked. Nev1 (talk) 14:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- The following as
Confirmed socks of Yorkshirian:
- Beatrixers (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Immense sense (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Swinging 70es (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Stipulater (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Faces en la Crowd (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Kilfeno (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Sketchy Berd (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Bourbonia (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- A Flying Heart (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Guardian of Plato (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Victory's Spear (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Sumside (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Ten Dolla, Ten Dolla (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- T Weatley (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Learned Sprited (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Revealed Hand (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Thousand headed dragon (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Brown breaad (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Milkmang (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Traseiro de Porco (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
- Zap 05 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
Yorkshirian operates from a pretty big IP range, so a rangeblock is out of the question. I'll see if I can narrow this to /17-/21 rangeblocks. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 22:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Wow. Them's a lotta socks. Thanks for checking this out, Nishkid64. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:32, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- See also this apparently retaliatory request: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Aragmar which has been
Rejected ++Lar: t/c 14:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- See also this apparently retaliatory request: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Aragmar which has been
Back again, this time as User:Zap 05. Indefblocked. --Angelo (talk) 11:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think it's safe to say that User:Pork and Wine, User:Turkish Bacon, and User:Ventelator (now all indefblocked) were also this person... Lithoderm 12:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User:JGXenite
Apparently this user is helping cleanup vandalism, but I wondering why they warned themselves for making an unsuitable article when that page happens to be a left over from a vandal move. - Mgm (talk) 12:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Most probably a mistake on/trying to test Twinkle — Possum (talk) 12:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- It's actually a twinkle feature: By default you tag and notify the owner in one step. After undoing the page move vandalism, they became the creator of the redirect and forgot to tell Twinkle to not notify themselves on tagging it for deletion.--Tikiwont (talk) 12:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
User:SYSADMN
--Tikiwont (talk) 14:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
SYSADMN (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Is this for real, or is it a hoax? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Just got beat for the block, obvious troll. Secret account 14:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Disambiguation page needed for Zdravko Zdravkov
One is an old goolkeeper in football, and one is the bulgarian national ski jumping trainer. Disambiguation page is needed but i dont know how to do, so can someone else fix it? The Rolling Camel (talk) 15:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- See Talk:Zdravko Zdravkov. The first step is to see if a decent article can, or should, be created regarding Zdravko Zdravkov, ski jump instructor. If that is appropriate, then a note at the top of the page directing attention to Zdravko Zdravkov (ski jump instructor) might be appropriate together with a change of name of Zdravko Zdravkov to Zdravko Zdravkov (goalkeeper). FredTalk 16:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Template:Otherpersons, {{otherpersons}} seems to be the template to use. Fred Talk 16:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Self-proclaimed sock
Can an admin take a look at Ian9x (talk · contribs · logs)? Either a banned editor or someone masquerading as such for lulz or to make a point. Skomorokh 21:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you Pedro. Skomorokh 22:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Might be nice for people to keep an eye on FisherQueen's talk page, as she is apparently under sockpuppeting troll attack.—Kww(talk) 22:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- Meh. It's just a schoolboy who's discovered vandalism but hasn't yet realized how dull it is. I'm taking a RBI approach. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- All socks of Ianxp. I've now placed a rangeblock, so that should keep him off WP for the time being. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 22:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
He's adapting tactics. Today he came in on a mobile IP 89.19.79.234 (talk · contribs), and tried to spoof a message to me from PhillKnight (talk · contribs) (note the two Ls, not to be confused with admin PhilKnight (talk · contribs)). One other tactic that made me laugh, was on one of his new socks, IanUnix (talk · contribs), he pre-added the "indef blocked" template to his talkpage, before he contacted me.[151] ;) All of the latest accounts are now blocked (for real), but I did want to let other admins know to keep an eye out. The main common elements (see Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ianxp) are:
- He tends to create accounts that start with the name Ian, where the suffix is some other name, often an Operating System or an animal.
- He's logging in from Ireland
- He tends to gravitate to the following two school articles:
- He also tends to refer to me, PhilKnight, and uncyclopedia. Lately he's also been haunting the talkpages of FisherQueen (talk · contribs) and Irmela (talk · contribs).
FYI, --Elonka 22:10, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
What's with the top of this section? And I did not use a mobile IP address then, I don't know what caused you to think of that.IanBeOS (talk) 21:09, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Neutrality dispute at ACORN
There are editors who are removing the neutrality dispute tag at ACORN with out discussing it on the talk page. I would ask for some guidance from non involved editors. Involved editors may of course comment, but I have placed the tag twice, and another editor has a three times. Can anyone just remove tags that they don't like without addressing the perceived neutrality issues? What good is there to have a tag if a group of editors blocks its usage?Die4Dixie (talk) 20:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
| If your message is rude, templated, and/or begins with "Welcome to Wikipedia!", it will be reverted upon me seeing it. Note: Thank you notes are not included in this warning. |
Why would you template experienced editors when you have this header on your own talk page?Die4Dixie (talk) 22:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- There is... or was... discussion underway at Talk:Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. It looks to have ceased about 16 hours ago with little discussion. As there hasn't been a 3RR violation, I'm not sure if there's a need for admin intervention yet. The regular DR process might be appropriate. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 21:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Bstone missed templating a user who's been central in this dispute, Syntacticus (talk · contribs · count · api · block log). Based on editing patterns, it appears he also edits without logging in as 67.155.175.34 (talk · contribs · count · api · block log). That's a concern because the IP belongs to Capital Research Center, a conservative think tank whose reports Syntacticus has been linking to in this and many other articles. One of their senior editors appeared on Jon Stewart's Daily Show and asserted that ACORN paid volunteers with crack cocaine.[152] The addition of the CRC report is the focus of this dispute. I've asked Syntacticus to comply with WP:COI, and will bring it to WP:COIN if there isn't a resolution. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
-
- Here's how we got here and how we appear to be veering towards full disruption on this page again. A few days ago Syntacticus made a series of 3 edits without summaries (last of them here [[153]] )that reinserted information that had been hashed to death ad nauseum on the talk page (among the issues was the desire to cite an inflamatory and disproven allegation to a blog at something called the Capital Research Center. It was reverted (with an explanation as shown in that last dif), syntacticus re-reverted [[154]]. On talk it was explained to him in great detail why what he was doing was absent consensus, without a reliable source, and factually false [[155]]. In response he throws up a neutrality tag, at almost the same time adding in the debunked information (to whit, that acorn used crack cocaine to convince people to register to vote) cited to the right wing blog [[156]]. I remove the cocaine falsehood, but leave the neutrality tag [[157]] and go to talk, conclusively demonstrating the cocaine error [[158]]. This having been done, and the issue over which Syntacticus had disputed the neutrality of the article (he had called it a "blowjob" and a "puff piece" much earlier in this charming rant during the last time we debunked the cocaine allegation and rid ourselves of the sock army [[159]] apparently being resolved, another user removed the tag [[160]] which syntacticus immediately reverted, which took him to 4rr and of which he was reminded on his talk page (I warned him at 3rr, he went to 4, someone else pointed that out [[161]]. This was all on December 7. On December 8 Syntacticus again reinserted the neutrality tag (still not having really taken any of this up at talk yet) was reverted [[162]] and Syntacticus reverts again [[163]]. Then an IP address registered to the Capital Research Center (the group for which Syntacticus habitually adds links to articles, and whose opinion pieces he tries to use as reliable sources for matters of fact, a habit for which he has been warned multiple times) reinserts the tag [[164]]. Now in comes the milkman, who makes the same edits syntacticus was trying to make in his first edit on Wikipedia [[165]]. The Milkman's exploits have been well covered already. After he edit wars up to a 24 hour block, new user Bigus Dickus reinserts half of the material Syntacticus had been seeking [[166]] . Apparently the name bigus dickus violated a policy, he is perm-blocked shortly thereafter. The next day, December 11, Syntacticus restores tag and seeks to use the Capital Research Center as a reliable source (something he has been told is a violation of policy multiple times). [[167]]. Our friend Die4Dixie then reinserts the neutrality tag [[168]] originally sought by Syntacticus over a cocaine allegation proven to be false. And in my opinion there has been no good faith effort by Syntacticus, his confederate from the Capital Research Center, the Milkman, Bigus Dickus or Die4Dixie to reach some sort of consensus on that talk page. This is disruptive, degrading to article quality, and smacks of game playing (if anyone thinks this may be a bog standard content dispute, please read this dialogue between dixie and i in which he accuses me of "original research" and failing to understand the intent of the project while i try to explain to him while editorials aren't to be used as reliable sources [[169]]. Given the past painful experience with game playing over this article, i hope steps are taken to nip disruption in the bud.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Take out the Huffington post editorial ,which you seem to think better than the WSJ , and enough of my neutrality concerns will be resolved that the template can come off. I am not your friend, make no mistake about it, and your snide use of friend ass a pejoritive is unhelpful and gratuitiously snide.Die4Dixie (talk) 22:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
-
See also the above thread: WP:ANI#User Here Cometh the Milkman, a related case. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Die4Dixie has been a long term "problem editor" on the ACORN article, trying to stick in various stuff against WP standards and article consensus. Having mostly not managed to get that stuff in, his/her latest attempt is to stick a "disputed" template at the top of the article, without bothering to state or explain any particular issue other than "the article isn't nasty enough towards ACORN" in some vague way.
- All of the specific content issues have been or are being discussed perfectly well on the talk page nowadays. It had previously been very disrupted by an army of sock accounts arguing for roughly the same content that Die4Dixie does (but I'm confident that s/he is a different individual from him/them). In any case, none of the discussed issues are more than minor tweaks to a paragraph or two, or maybe discussions of whether one or two citations meet WP:RS. None of this comes anywhere close to being an issue of an "unbalanced" overall article... so the tag is places solely out of WP:POINT or to cause outright disruption of process. LotLE×talk 22:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- The past history of disruption by POV warriors etc... can be found here [[170]]
Someone please address these ad hominem attacks. I have made few article edits there, and the majortity have be kept. Please supply links to this contentious material that I have added. I have had one block for incivility , many months ago. I believe your editing history to be much more problematic. You are atributting motives here. my motive is that it be accuarate. I have inserted nothing about crack to the article, but used the talk page to discuss the issues. The article has nuetrality problems. Now what are the proticaols for dispute tags, or can people remove them and avoid discussion like LULU seems intent to do? Someone adress these attacjks too, please.Die4Dixie (talk) 22:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters, it would be helpful if you could provide diffs to substantiate your comments regarding user:Die4Dixie. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Syntacticus' contributions to the article about acorn workers and crack were disruptive and suspicious, and his neutrality tag was inappropriate - a case of sour grapes after having clearly inappropriate content rejected by consensus. Syntacticus was the only one promoting that content and the editors were right to remove that tag - at the very least removing the tag was a legitimate consensus to reach, and it would be inappropriate for another editor to edit war on behalf of Syntacticus. I don't think that's what Die4Dixie is doing - he seems to have his own, independent, complaint about the neutrality of the article, which he has articulated. In other words, a tag added for the wrong reason can be removed. But if someone re-adds it for the right reason this time, fine. Die4Dixie is a legitimate, capable, good faith editor with strong political beliefs that he sometimes expresses. Please do not label him disruptive just because his position is different - it is a content position the same way everyone else has content positions. Both sides were edit warring over the neutrality tag, which seems pretty pointless. It's best to take them off and talk instead, but it is such a small matter it is a shame to have to waste time on it here. I suggest smoked WP:TROUT for all, and a return to polite discussion on the talk page. Wikidemon (talk) 01:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. Die4Dixie is a longstanding editor who knows and follows the rules, so far as I'm aware. The problem user that I'm concerned about is Syntacticus. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Syntacticus' contributions to the article about acorn workers and crack were disruptive and suspicious, and his neutrality tag was inappropriate - a case of sour grapes after having clearly inappropriate content rejected by consensus. Syntacticus was the only one promoting that content and the editors were right to remove that tag - at the very least removing the tag was a legitimate consensus to reach, and it would be inappropriate for another editor to edit war on behalf of Syntacticus. I don't think that's what Die4Dixie is doing - he seems to have his own, independent, complaint about the neutrality of the article, which he has articulated. In other words, a tag added for the wrong reason can be removed. But if someone re-adds it for the right reason this time, fine. Die4Dixie is a legitimate, capable, good faith editor with strong political beliefs that he sometimes expresses. Please do not label him disruptive just because his position is different - it is a content position the same way everyone else has content positions. Both sides were edit warring over the neutrality tag, which seems pretty pointless. It's best to take them off and talk instead, but it is such a small matter it is a shame to have to waste time on it here. I suggest smoked WP:TROUT for all, and a return to polite discussion on the talk page. Wikidemon (talk) 01:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree at the fullest. If Syntacticus wouldn't be around D4D could be a valuable assert to the article in question. S/he should detach him/herself from any influence from this "editor" to (again) get some balance where needed without being (emotionally?) pulled by such editor.--The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 04:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you. If you will look at the talk page , I encouraged him to itemize his problems so that we could work towards getting it removed. I understand how it is an ugly banner. Rather that remove it, discussion ( which was on going on my part before the last revert by Lulu) should happen to improve the article. I'm done here. I removed the trigger for me ( from the Huffington Post opinion piece). I used the same guidelines that Bali suggests to exclude the WSJ opinion piece. I have never added blog/op ed sourced material to an article. I did agrue on the talk page if someone else wanted to use the WSJ piece, it was better than the right wing stuff they had. I never said I would put it in , an I viewed the convesation as an academic one.Die4Dixie (talk) 02:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I thank Die4Dixie for some good edits in the last day on the ACORN article, including removal of the superfluous tag s/he has somewhat edit-warred to insert. I think this is moving in a good direction.
FWIW, I'm not going to search through for diffs, but it is easy to read on Talk:ACORN: Unfortunately, D4D has frequently (in the past) engaged in what I find to be childish insults against the article's subject, including many skewed or outright misrepresented "facts", adopting trite neologisms and puns to try to insult ACORN, and various other matters of tone one typically finds in the worst of right-wing tabloids or talk radio. While these insults are neither violations of WP:BLP (since ACORN is not a person) nor violations of WP:AGF (since the target is not editors but the aritcle topic), I still find them to be disruptive of honest discussion of article content. It makes it very hard to take seriously the actual editorial content questions buried in the midst of the vitriol (even where D4D might have perfectly good content points somewhere in there). Still, if we can move towards a more professional tone, that is wonderful. LotLE×talk 23:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yawn As far as I'm concerned this can be closed. If lulu wants to take his dickish accusations and open some ANI discussions I would answer individual complaints. I'm not sure how I insult an organization, butmeh... whatever. Of course you would not recognize my efforts to improve the arcticle. You are the one who put all the peacock prose into in the first place, and I think that its removal has angered you. I chalk this last post up to a buttsore editor who doesn't like his writing examined critically.Die4Dixie (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Proposed image ban for User:Bnguyen
I propose a ban on working with images for this fellow. I estimate that the vast majority of his images, if not all, are just randomly pulled from some place on the internet and randomly tagged with some form of PD, usually claiming [dubiously] that they were by someo sort of division of the US government. He has received tons of warnings and complaints and only blanks them, or rants on people's talk pages. Durova has done the analytical details for me. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- If there are any issues, please allow me to correct them and I will continue to be a positive member of the wikipedia community. Bnguyen (talk) 01:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- YellowMonkey, after looking through the history
and seeing the user's behavior after seeing this thread, I absolutely Endorse an image ban and if you need a semi-uninvolved admin for the block within the next few hours, give me a poke. -MBK004 02:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC) - Also, Bnguyen, your image uploads are not a positive thing. If you want to be a "positive" member of the community the best thing to do would to stop uploading images. -MBK004 03:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- YellowMonkey, after looking through the history
- Sorry, you've exhausted the community's patience. Not only have you been uploading numerous images with incorrect sources, you have claiming several are from the National Infantry Museum, when in reality it came from a personal web-site. You also claimed an image of Le Van Ty dated to 2008, when the individual died in 1964. You have also refused to discuss your prior actions, replacing content with "Archive 1-27 on history," whatever that means. Any further abuse of the image upload process, or any further copyright violations will result in a week block. In the future, reference our image use policy. seicer talk contribs 03:31, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Following up with a bit more material. YellowMonkey asked me to have a look at this editor's uploads last night and the vast majority of material surveyed was exceedingly dubious if not falsified. For instance, several of the most recent uploads had public domain claims and asserted attributions to U.S. Government websites and a museum, when they actually all originated from the same Tripod website.
- Image:General Lê Văn Ty.jpg[171]
- Image:Major_General_Bui_Dinh_Dam.jpg[172]
- Image:Brigadier_General_Tran_Quang_Khoi.jpg[173]
- Image:Major General Ðỗ Mậu.jpg[174]
This would be a matter of concern for a new editor, but Bnguyen is not a new editor. He has been uploading images since 2004 and consistently exhibiting problems, blanking notices when people attempt to communicate the problem at user talk. The majority of his early uploads have been deleted and many of those that haven't been should be. For instance:
- Image:King_Kigeli_V_of_Rwanda_meets_with_King_Hussein.jpg Claimed PD release; no OTRS filing. No copy of image or PD release available at source website.
- Image:King Kigeli awarded The International Strategic Studies Association..jpg Same as above.
- Image:Stefanos Mengesha Seyoum.jpg Claimed PD release; no OTRS filing. 404 error on claimed source.
Strongly endorse an image uploading ban and taking a firehose to this editor's uploads. Although my survey has reviewed representative samples rather than the complete history, not a single claimed source has checked out as legitimate yet and most are obvious misrepresentations. Other than a few non-free image use rationales, the rest really look like they need to go. It's disturbing to discover that a problem this prolific and blatant has gone unremedied so long. DurovaCharge! 03:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- You know, I've been noticing that some of the images have been removed previously. This account dates to as far back as 2004, and the log for this particular image features the same issues that we are facing now. I'm leaning towards an indefinite block; if he can't upload images without violating copyright for four years, what makes us believe that he will suddenly reform? seicer talk contribs 03:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
...and if anyone has any free time, I could use help removing his image contributions that violate copyright :) There are a lot to go through... seicer talk contribs 03:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Heh, well fortunately for me this stuff hasn't been transwikied to Commons. This really could use more local admins, though. The fellow has been prolific. Best wishes, DurovaCharge! 03:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, one did make it to Commons, and I nominated it for deletion and specified this entry. I really chuckled after reading the rationale for this image, that stated, "US Department of Defense TWA flight 800 disaster recovery site." It was a photograph of someone, but it was in front of a garage door. seicer talk contribs 03:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Heh, well fortunately for me this stuff hasn't been transwikied to Commons. This really could use more local admins, though. The fellow has been prolific. Best wishes, DurovaCharge! 03:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I had to read this thread three times before I realized that the Yellow Monkey was not proposing a ban for himself. Damn. How much difference a little 'l' makes... and three bourbon-and-cokes... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
To BNGUYEN: The issue is very clear, despite your bland "what is the problem <shrug>" type response. It’s that you upload images from some people’s website and false claim them to be PD as US-govt or US-army. Despite regular warnings. You have also uploaded tons of other fair use images before this and simply wrote "permission received" without any proof so now you are tagging things as PD-US-govt because they don’t need any permission? Why should you not be banned from uploading pictures? What exactly are your positive contributions to Wikipedia? Apart from adding linkfarms everywhere and starting a lot of articles on non-notable Vietnamese Americans. First VA to pass law school/killed in Iraq, go to West Point etc and then complain that I am being racist. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
NB: He has also uploaded a pile of pictures of South Vietnamese officers and labelled them as 2008, even though those guys were born in the 1920s mostly, and are now mostly dead, or 80, and not a young dashing 40-year-old as shown in those photos. One image was even of a guy who died in 1890. I probably should have made a bigger fuss before, perhaps I was too worried about the perception of stalking him, since I also have quite a dim view of most of his general article edits - adding quotefarms and linkfarms everywhere instead of adding content, and all the Vietnamese American bios. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, all kidding aside, the l-less Bnguyen is clue-less when it comes to image policy at Wikipedia, and he shows no indication that he wishes to learn the policy or abide by it. A ban against uploading images, to be enforced by blocks should he continue to violate it, seems most appropriate. I endorse this ban... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Log of my recent deletions of his stuff which shows a pile of pictures claimed to be from 2008, of people who died during the Vietnam War, or would be 80+ years old now but have all their hair, black and not white hair, no wrinkles and commanding non-existent army units at the age of 90. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 04:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- That's good enough for me to indef block. Any objections? -MBK004 04:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Not from me. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 05:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Not from me either. I just looked over this case because it was above one I started, and as an otherwise uninvolved party I say go for it. He clearly has been given plenty of time, way too much time in fact, and still doesn't get it. He's outright misinforming in every way. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 05:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Not from me. YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 05:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Indef'ed the account. There are only a handful of images left, but I've gotta clean more cat poop. seicer talk contribs 05:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- You beat me to the block. I was composing a block message to use instead of a template. -MBK004 05:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I endorse the image ban due to his inveterate uploading of images under dubious licenses, but not an outright edit ban. His edits hadn't been disruptive, and some are even helpful (the recent categorizing edits). DHN (talk) 05:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Good block. Misrepresenting image sources is not a matter to be taken lightly. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 06:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with DHN, I don't see disruptive editing from the user other than the image issue. That could be settled with a image ban, and if he violates that then a indef block would be in order. I'm willing to give one last chance. Secretaccount 14:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- With dozens of warnings that date to 2004, you are willing to give "one last chance"? Petty silliness and racism is one thing; persistent copyright violations over four years that went unnoticed is another. You can only receive so many warnings before you finally buckle down and block the user to prevent further violations from occuring. We can't have these go undetected and we can't be soft on copyright violations. seicer talk contribs 14:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- On the one hand, I completely agree with you, Seicer; the willingness to apply deceptive licensing to images suggests at the very best an utter misapprehension of the image policy; at worst...well, that's pretty much clear. We have lots of users who keep screwing up, and this user's real issues might be mitigated or resolved through mentoring. Some contributors aren't really conscientious while working here, and their - sloppiness should not be construed as intentional deception.
- On the other hand, an image ban seems like the right thing to do until the user can wrap their head around our image policy. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 17:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Arcayne, are you volunteering to monitor this person? Bear in mind that this editor's manner of adapting to the image policy has been to falsify public domain and source claims. It takes some knowledge of our policies to pull those shenanigans for four years. We don't have a technical tool to prevent uploads, so if this person is to continue editing at all (much less resume uploading) it's going to take an admin's supervision. DurovaCharge! 19:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't looked into the case clearly enough to comment on whether a complete ban is justified but from what I can tell, all editors agree to an image upload ban. Although there is no way to prevent uploads per user currently, it seems to me it isn't a serious issue. The editor is informed they cannot upload images (actually I suggest any files) period. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. One or more users monitor this user. Any uploads equals a warning then if repeated a ban. No discussion and it doesn't matter if he/she has a signed letter from George W. Bush saying what he/she uploaded is in the public domain. Indeed I would think a bot could be drafted to do the job of warning and informing admins. We already have bots looks for sourcing etc, it surely wouldn't be that hard to draft one to monitor for any and all uploads by a user (and it may be useful for the future). Personally I would be more concerned about whether this user might decide to turn his/her attention to textual contribs. These are generally far more serious then image ones because while images ones are a hassle, textual ones can result in a major loss of time if they are not detected and stay for a while to be modified by others only to be deleted eventually. The other issue would be if he/she decided to falsify claims on files uploaded by others. Nil Einne (talk) 20:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- So Nil, are you volunteering to become the monitor? DurovaCharge! 21:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nil, there are several points that are incorrect about your argument.
- 1. Persistent copyright violations over your years is a serious issue. Would you volunteer to monitor this user for the next two, three, four years?
- 2. Any upload equals a warning? This user has been receiving dozens upon dozens of warnings for four years, and all of them were "archived."
- 3. We already have bots that operate by checking for copyright violations, but as this case proves, they are not always reliable. Especially when sources and claims were deliberately falsified in an effort to pass around administrators watchful eyes. And it sadly worked for four years. seicer talk contribs 21:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't looked into the case clearly enough to comment on whether a complete ban is justified but from what I can tell, all editors agree to an image upload ban. Although there is no way to prevent uploads per user currently, it seems to me it isn't a serious issue. The editor is informed they cannot upload images (actually I suggest any files) period. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. One or more users monitor this user. Any uploads equals a warning then if repeated a ban. No discussion and it doesn't matter if he/she has a signed letter from George W. Bush saying what he/she uploaded is in the public domain. Indeed I would think a bot could be drafted to do the job of warning and informing admins. We already have bots looks for sourcing etc, it surely wouldn't be that hard to draft one to monitor for any and all uploads by a user (and it may be useful for the future). Personally I would be more concerned about whether this user might decide to turn his/her attention to textual contribs. These are generally far more serious then image ones because while images ones are a hassle, textual ones can result in a major loss of time if they are not detected and stay for a while to be modified by others only to be deleted eventually. The other issue would be if he/she decided to falsify claims on files uploaded by others. Nil Einne (talk) 20:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Arcayne, are you volunteering to monitor this person? Bear in mind that this editor's manner of adapting to the image policy has been to falsify public domain and source claims. It takes some knowledge of our policies to pull those shenanigans for four years. We don't have a technical tool to prevent uploads, so if this person is to continue editing at all (much less resume uploading) it's going to take an admin's supervision. DurovaCharge! 19:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- With dozens of warnings that date to 2004, you are willing to give "one last chance"? Petty silliness and racism is one thing; persistent copyright violations over four years that went unnoticed is another. You can only receive so many warnings before you finally buckle down and block the user to prevent further violations from occuring. We can't have these go undetected and we can't be soft on copyright violations. seicer talk contribs 14:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- ImageTaggingBot already has the ability to monitor a user's uploads and flag them for further review. It also has the ability to automatically mark a user's uploads for speedy deletion, but I've never gotten approval to use it. --Carnildo (talk) 21:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seicer is correct about insisting that persistent copyright violation is a serious issue. That's lawbreaking. This is an editor who learned how to evade the site's bots, and I simply wouldn't trust anything less than a knowledgeable and diligent human being to monitor his work if he returns (who knows whether he falsifies sources in text as well as images?). If someone volunteers to assume that responsibility I'd be glad to see him under an upload ban, but our obligation must be to act conservatively in the interests of upholding the law. DurovaCharge! 22:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I 100% agree with Durova; he's broken the rules and gone to the extent of trying to cover up his rulebreaking, and furthermore has not shown repentance. Looking at the very few images left that he's uploaded, and it looks like they were all uploaded under false "permission granted" pretenses (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). And if my memory of school photos is correct, his own photo might not be a valid upload- I seem to recall that the professional photography company always retained ownership and in their literature would expressly forbid the student's family from making reproductions. While I'd love to AGF... 4 years thereof and who knows how many deleted uploads seems to suggest otherwise. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 01:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seicer is correct about insisting that persistent copyright violation is a serious issue. That's lawbreaking. This is an editor who learned how to evade the site's bots, and I simply wouldn't trust anything less than a knowledgeable and diligent human being to monitor his work if he returns (who knows whether he falsifies sources in text as well as images?). If someone volunteers to assume that responsibility I'd be glad to see him under an upload ban, but our obligation must be to act conservatively in the interests of upholding the law. DurovaCharge! 22:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- ImageTaggingBot already has the ability to monitor a user's uploads and flag them for further review. It also has the ability to automatically mark a user's uploads for speedy deletion, but I've never gotten approval to use it. --Carnildo (talk) 21:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Indefinite ban requested
Would you please impose an indefinite ban on the IP address 99.156.92.12 whose user is carrying out a series of personal attacks. A warning has already been issued to User talk:99.156.92.12 but, following another personal attack, the talk page has been blanked to try and eliminate the warning.
The relevant diffs are:
- 8 December personal attack on my talk page, as a result of which I placed a "stop" warning on the IP talk page.
- 12 December personal attack and unwarranted intervention in a private dispute between two editors over GA procedure.
- 12 December in which the user blanked the talk page including the warning.
Obviously, these attacks are related to a dispute between myself and another editor about GA procedures. Whatever the rights, wrongs and eventual outcome of that dispute, it is strictly between the two editors and this sort of intervention by an IP address user is absolutely out of order and must be stopped. Thank you. ---Jack talk page 07:16, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I presume you intend to request an indef block... which isn't generally done on IPs (see here). The IP is free to remove warnings from its own talk page... see WP:WARN. If the IP starts making incivil comments again, then maybe a block would be warranted. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 07:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Blocking has been done several times before via this noticeboard. I notice that the previous topic was handled in a similar fashion and that was actually more serious. Why are we suddenly giving extra chances to repeat vandals? He has been warned once and he has come back three days later and done it again. That is enough, so can you please follow precedent and impose an indefinite ban. This is, incidentally, a static IP address by the look of it. ---Jack talk page 07:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'll take your word for it about the address but I still think that some firm action beyond a short block is required. The person doing this is completely out of order. What is more, looking at the history, I think there is a very likely suspect among our registered users. ---Jack talk page 07:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- That would be odd, but I've left a message just in case. — Satori Son 17:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I don't see any serious incivility in the diffs above. It seems that the IP (who may well be Eustress) perceived Blackjack to be trying to game the GA process by recruiting a brand-new editor, and was complaining about it. Looie496 (talk) 18:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- If you don't perceive any serious incivility in this edit, then my standards for acceptable behavior are more rigorous than your own. I do not believe that kind of discourse is at all appropriate for this project. — Satori Son 18:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- Please note that the IP has responded to an ANI notice that I delivered earlier, promising to cease prior incivility. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 01:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- If you don't perceive any serious incivility in this edit, then my standards for acceptable behavior are more rigorous than your own. I do not believe that kind of discourse is at all appropriate for this project. — Satori Son 18:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I don't see any serious incivility in the diffs above. It seems that the IP (who may well be Eustress) perceived Blackjack to be trying to game the GA process by recruiting a brand-new editor, and was complaining about it. Looie496 (talk) 18:06, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- That would be odd, but I've left a message just in case. — Satori Son 17:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
IP 70.79.65.227 : suspected block evasion by Ramu50, continued WP:CIVIL vio
It seems to me that IP 70.79.65.227 (talk, block log) is being used for further block evasion by indefinitely-banned user Ramu50. I submitted a checkuser case previously, showing that use of this IP is closely and only associated with Ramu50. In response admin Ricky81682 (talk) put a short block on the IP.
The checkuser request has all of the previous links to contribs, diffs, etc.
The closing comment for the checkuser case was "I will say that there's no apparent risk of collateral damage, if the block on 70.79.65.227 needs to be extended".
The block has expired and the IP is again violating WP:CIVIL, for example here (see the last line) and most vociferously here on the checkuser case page, of all places.
Aside from the WP:CIVIL violations I feel the damage this IP is doing to the encyclopedia must be considered. When this user does engage in discussion on a talk page (which is not often) rather than simply edit-warring, he or she vigorously defends his or her disputed edits not only with WP:CIVIL violations, but also with astonishing flights of illogic. I have dissected the most recent case of which I'm aware here. That sort of "argument" was very typical of Ramu50; combined with tendentious editing, edit warring, WP:CIVIL vios, etc., it resulted in numerous recent ANI incidents ([175], [176], [177], [178], [179], culminating in the current indefinite block) and other proceedings ([180], [181], [182]).
It is a waste of our time as editors to have to try to logically defend one point after another against someone who sometimes refuses to engage in discussion at all, and other times either will not or cannot follow or construct a logical argument. This editor's usual answer to a response such as mine is simply more illogic. Why should any of us have to make time to respond yet again?
It is true that a few of Ramu50's, and a few of the IP's, edits have resulted in no disagreement. But I feel strongly that the damage here far outweighs the benefit of letting him - or them - continue to edit.
The IP is literally asking to be blocked - whether or not this is Ramu50, I suggest we acede to the IP's request. Jeh (talk) 07:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- If it weren't so obnoxious, I'd put a big old "THIS" in response. Agree with Jeh, so blocked for two weeks. Since User:Luna Santin noted the lack of risk of collateral damage, two weeks is a start. I don't know if it rotates or what, so I'll leave it for others to continue. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I am aware of the editing behaviour of this idea - absolutely no doubt it's Ramu50 - endorse block. --Cameron Scott (talk) 09:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- As per the evidence, endorse. Oh, and someone please contact his ISP. Blueboy96 12:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- He ought to be banned from the English wikipedia simply on the grounds that he can't write proper English. Beyond that, the question becomes, how many times do you want to deal with this guy? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- He's already de facto banned in that nobody is going to lift his indef block. Just block the IP and move on. No real need to dwell on this too much. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have blocked the IP for a year... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Minors information
(Section got deleted without explanation, probably accidentally due to an edit conflict; restored by Why Not A Duck 01:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC))
A minor's personal information like age is usually removed, am I correct? Grsz11 01:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- you are correct. for safetys sake, i wlaredy redacted his name. his hometown / location evidence seems generic enoguh to be acceptabule. Smith Jones (talk) 01:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah I meant to put 1990 not 1994 and never noticed it. I guess I just had the number 94 in my head so I put it there. Sorry for the problems I may have caused.--Iamawesome800 01:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- you are correct. for safetys sake, i wlaredy redacted his name. his hometown / location evidence seems generic enoguh to be acceptabule. Smith Jones (talk) 01:44, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Mccready in violation (and weird denial) of indefinite topic ban
Help is needed in enforcing a topic ban "from all acupuncture and chiropractic related topics, broadly construed"[183]:
- Vassyana, at Mccready's user talk page: "the topic ban is now indefinite"
- Scientizzle, at AN/I: "Topic ban is extended to an indefinite ban."
Mccready recently posted as an IP to acupuncture, which resulted in my requesting a checkuser that was positive (and to which he even admitted). Still, he remains rather obtusely in denial about the existence of the topic ban, no matter what anyone says to him. He has again posted at Talk:acupuncture. Can we make that post his last on that particular topic? He was topic-banned for really good reasons (massive disruption and abiding ignorance of basic Wikiquette, cf. his talk page and block log). Someone please bring a stop to this disruption and disrespect for WP sanctions. Echoing others who have dealt with this editor, I suggest blocks of increasing length escalating to a site ban if the behavior continues. thanks, Jim Butler (t) 16:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- When I closed that discussion seven months ago, it was clear that editors of all stripes in the science-alternative medicine dispute were frustrated with Mccready's actions on various pages. There was a clear consensus that he needed an extended break from those pages, thus I expanded his then-established temporary topic ban to an indefinite topic ban. Ignoring this is a fatuous attempt to get around his restrictions and I find it unreasonable.
- That said, the recent edits attributed to this user in violation of this ban seem, to me, to be generally okay (this and this look like reasonable removal of fluff and unnecessary equivocation, and asking why those edits were reverted isn't far out of line).
- Since Mccready has stated that he wishes to appeal this topic ban on AN/I, I propose this:
- I will personally block Mccready for greater than one month (the length of the last block) if he edits in the area of the topic ban again—article or talk pages, even in response to the thread he just started at Talk:Acupuncture—but will not block right now pending his appeal on ANI of said topic ban. That discussion can determine if his recent edits were appropriate or not, no doubt affecting the liklihood of a reduced topic ban.
- I'll inform Mccready (talk·contribs) of this on his talk page... — Scientizzle 18:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC) Informed — Scientizzle 23:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with Scientizzle's comments. I am additionally very wary of reducing the topic ban considering the continuation of his tendency towards WP:IDHT and his failure (so far) to accept responsibility for the long-running problems that lead to the topic ban in the first place. Mccready should explicitly acknowledge the past problems in his approach and clearly indicate that he will be responsive to community concerns. He should also abandon the pattern of acting like notifications, comments, and other circumstances did not occur or were the result of his opponents' fabrications. Otherwise, I must strongly oppose any softening of the restrictions, as their preventative purpose is still required. Vassyana (talk) 22:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I think Scientizzle's giving Mccready to chance to appeal is entirely reasonable, and I share Vassyana's skepticism about reducing the topic ban. There's no evidence that Mccready learns anything from bans or probations. Rather than work toward better editing, he just goes away, makes a few minor edits, and eventually comes roaring back with the same tendentious disruption. That was the pattern both recently and in 2006-2007.
- So, yes, he is capable of disengaging, but he hasn't shown the ability to be engaged while not making a mess of things. Before reducing the topic bans, I would look for a proactive, sustained pattern of engaged, collaborative editing, perhaps in some other pseudoscience or alt-med area. If he can behave himself there, maybe he can come back to his two pet peeve areas (chiro and acu) in a civilized manner. Not until then, please. --Jim Butler (t) 04:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- That is sound reasoning, I'd say. The facts right now point too his being unable to work productively in the are of the topic ban, so that should stand; it's not about whether he's right or wrong or his proposed content is good or bad (though of course that will inform things to an extent), it's about long-term and repeatable inability to engage properly with those of an opposing point of view. Guy (Help!) 17:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with Scientizzle's comments. I am additionally very wary of reducing the topic ban considering the continuation of his tendency towards WP:IDHT and his failure (so far) to accept responsibility for the long-running problems that lead to the topic ban in the first place. Mccready should explicitly acknowledge the past problems in his approach and clearly indicate that he will be responsive to community concerns. He should also abandon the pattern of acting like notifications, comments, and other circumstances did not occur or were the result of his opponents' fabrications. Otherwise, I must strongly oppose any softening of the restrictions, as their preventative purpose is still required. Vassyana (talk) 22:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
(undent) I think Vassyana should recuse herself from this discussion given her abuse of me on my talkpage. At one stage she even refused to discuss my block history after making it a central plank in her argument - logically inconsistent. Sorry Guy you are mistaken, as Scientizzle has pointed out, my edits were OK. My series of reverts which started this trouble were actually good edits putting the overwhelming balance of scientific evidence against acupuncuture in a more prominent position as opposed to the bias which left it seeming an open question in the scientific community (and haven't we seen that game played on Wikipedia). Having said that, I acknowledge that my edit warring was unproductive, particularly as I was usually the lone scientific editor in a sea of true believers. I think we should see Jim Butler's comments as those of a self-confessed acupuncturist with some very extreme views[184] about what diseases acupuncture can treat. As I said at the time, nobody focussed on the content of my edits, with the excpetion of Jim. Scientizzle's comments above are the first I have ever seen in 7 months that come near to it. I think we'd all be doing the project a favour to focus a lot more on content. I'm happy to present further arguments but raking back over the history, which actually hasn't been done properly anyway, may not be the best use of our time. I therefore propose the topic ban be lifted. It can be replaced very quickly if needed if my behaviour so warrants. Rest assured I have learnt a lesson and will be responsive to community concerns. Mccready (talk) 11:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Troy Davis case
Could someone please revert and block the DavidYork71 sock at Troy Davis case please (Officer McPhaill)? My admin account doesn't work from this slow connection. Thanks. DrKay (talk) 10:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Not properly attributing contributions in merge edit summaries
l'aquatique talk 05:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Regarding this, please note that he is still unilaterally "merging" without discussion and without indicating where the information is being merged from. See this and this. I had started a discussion earlier regarding a similar incident. I am not sure if I should remind him of Ryan's comment or what, but he's still not properly attributing the merges in the edit summaries. See [185] and [186] for the latest. So, we have all of the following merges and redirects without proper attribution in edit summaries:
- [187], [188], and [189] merged to [190]
- [191] merged to [192]
- [193] merged to [194], which was challenged and then the challenge reverted with [195]
- [196] merged to [197]
- [198] merged to [199]
Please note that when I tried to discuss one of the above with the user, I was rebuffed, which is why I am posting here. Thank you for your time and help. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 20:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
- Pot. Kettle. Black. You've got some chuztpah coming here with complaints about misleading edit summaries LGR. seresin ( ¡? ) 01:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
An apparently bad faith effort has been made to disrupt the thread I started. As I have indicated here, I have changed usernames due to real world harassment concerns and have requested that I not be referred to by my old username. I therefore cannot imagine any good faith or constructive reason why anyone would refer to me by my old username given that request. If the real world issues were not a concern, I would have just continued going by my old username. So, to stay on target... Regarding this, please note that he is still unilaterally "merging" without discussion and without indicating where the information is being merged from. See this and this. I had started a discussion earlier regarding a similar incident. I am not sure if I should remind him of Ryan's comment or what, but he's still not properly attributing the merges in the edit summaries. See [200] and [201] for the latest. So, we have all of the following merges and redirects without proper attribution in edit summaries:
- [202], [203], and [204] merged to [205]
- [206] merged to [207]
- [208] merged to [209], which was challenged and then the challenge reverted with [210]
- [211] merged to [212]
- [213] merged to [214]
Please note that when I tried to discuss one of the above with the user, I was rebuffed, which is why I am posting here. Thank you for your time and help. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 03:27, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- The poster above, 1, 2, 3, actually has kind of a point when it comes to complaining about edit summaries you have made in the past week that are, um, not entirely descriptive of the edits they were summarising. Motes and beams and such. // roux 04:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Which has nothing to do with regards to what specifically I am discussing in this thread. Yeah, I adjusted the format, fixed spacing, and adjusted the format of the articles. I just disregarded the unilateral intermediate edit to redirect an article that was kept in an AfD, but none of these has anything to do with merging and not adequately attributing to those who worked on the articles in question. These are apples and oranges and in any event, whether the pot calls the kettle black or not does not change the kettle’s being black. So, to stay on target... Regarding this, please note that he is still unilaterally "merging" without discussion and without indicating where the information is being merged from. See this and this. I had started a discussion earlier regarding a similar incident. I am not sure if I should remind him of Ryan's comment or what, but he's still not properly attributing the merges in the edit summaries. See [215] and [216] for the latest. So, we have all of the following merges and redirects without proper attribution in edit summaries:
- Please note that when I tried to discuss one of the above with the user, I was rebuffed, which is why I am posting here. Thank you for your time and help. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 04:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, those edit summaries are misleading and very recent, so it's a bit odd for you to be complaining about someone else doing the same. Also, I'm fairly certain that posting the exact same 3500 characters three times doesn't do a lot to help you out, here. Your choice, obviously. // roux 04:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- When looked at in the context I indicate above, they make sense as they only disregard the unilateral redirects made in after AfDs that closed as keep. People can naturally mischaracteriz them all that want, but this thread is not about me and trying to make it about someone else without addressing what this thread started with is baffling and unproductive, especially when I am "complaining" about someone doing something totally different, i.e. not properly attributing contributions per the GFDL. I am NOT railing on him for misleading edit summaries, but for not acknowledging the contributions of other editors. Apples and oranges, again. That is what we are discussing here, and "shooting the messenger" just derails the discussion and ignores the actual validity of what I am commenting on. Moreover, in the first instance, I see no reason to humor someone who changed his name for whatever reason and whom I would never refer to by his old name who nevertheless sees fit to refer to a user by his old name when I changed names due to real world harassment concerns. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 04:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, those edit summaries are misleading and very recent, so it's a bit odd for you to be complaining about someone else doing the same. Also, I'm fairly certain that posting the exact same 3500 characters three times doesn't do a lot to help you out, here. Your choice, obviously. // roux 04:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Help talk:Merging and moving pages#Merge edit summaries. Flatscan (talk) 04:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks. Then, I guess this thread can be archived. Best, --A NobodyMy talk 04:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- As for the issue you want to talk about, I can see both points. For some reason, people are reluctant to protect redirects. I don't think there's any valid reason that a redirect that is produced as a result of a merge should be left unprotected, because, as TTN points out, anyone can log out, undo the redirect anonymously, and have his cake and eat it, too. Still, that seems like a policy issue, not something that one can expect an admin to take direct action on, so this might not be the best place for it.
- As for your other issue, if there was any actual outside issue that was causing you any kind of actual peril, you would have really left when you were supposed to. You abused the right to vanish, cost multiple people time and effort, and then returned when you knew full well going in that the right to vanish was not a way to come back under a different name. Please don't bring that up again, no matter what people choose to call you ... it undermines the credibility of any complaint you may have. Lying in edit summaries is a problem you have had in the past, and apparently still have in the present: on Nov. 30th, 2008, you were User:A Nobody, and User:A Nobody did this. It never ceases to amaze me that you are allowed to edit here anymore. Actively deceitful edit summaries like that are things that admins could be expected to take immediate action about.—Kww(talk) 04:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Regarding this, please note that he is still unilaterally "merging" without discussion and without indicating where the information is being merged from. See this and this. I had started a discussion earlier regarding a similar incident. I am not sure if I should remind him of Ryan's comment or what, but he's still not properly attributing the merges in the edit summaries. See [230] and [231] for the latest. So, we have all of the following merges and redirects without proper attribution in edit summaries:
- [232], [233], and [234] merged to [235]
- [236] merged to [237]
- [238] merged to [239], which was challenged and then the challenge reverted with [240]
- [241] merged to [242]
- [243] merged to [244]
Please note that when I tried to discuss one of the above with the user, I was rebuffed, which is why I am posting here. Thank you for your time and help, but I'll see what has been added to Help talk:Merging and moving pages#Merge edit summaries and will continue the discussion there and encourage TTN to do so as well. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 04:48, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- OKay dude, seriously? Reposting the same thing over and over and over isn't going to change the fact that when you post to ANI, you're going to come under the microscope too, as I have good reason to know. // roux 04:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- I, however, echo Kww above and would like to see some consideration about A Nobody's deceptive edit summaries. They are clearly disruptive and inappropriate behavior. seresin ( ¡? ) 05:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- Do you mean disruptive edit summaries like this? Or wait, there is no edit summary. So, unless if you are willing to look at the inappropriate behavior of yourself and others whom you side with, please do not engage in further hypocrisy. This thread is resolved and I, and no good faith editors, have any wish to entertain any further bad faith micharacterizations. Good bye. --A NobodyMy talk 05:40, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- This is extremely disapointing from TTN - I brought this issue up within a few weeks back, yet he continues to use edit summaries that don't give proper attribution to satisfy the GFDL. I'm going to give him a final warning now, should he do this again he'll be blocked. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 16:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- and warned[245]. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 16:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
*Are you going to block A Nobody, then, if she does the same thing again with undoing redirects? Or does her shit not stink? MuZemike (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
- A Nodody isn't infringing on the GFDL by undoing the redirects. I don't care whether or not the content is merged - that's an editorial content dispute and should be solved through dispute resolution channels, but I do care that content isn't being properly attributed to the users that create the content. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 23:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Merges and GFDL attribution
According to Help:Merging and moving pages#Performing the merger, the source article must be recorded in the edit summary to comply with the GFDL. This requirement is frequently ignored in practice. Does it really carry any weight or is it more of a recommendation?
I have started a discussion at Help talk:Merging and moving pages#Merge edit summaries. Flatscan (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- It must be done, it's a requirement not a recommendation. People release their edits under the GFDL, and we must comply with it. What TTN is doing is a copyright infringement - he's not attributing the work of others correctly. He's been warned twice now, and if he doesn't comply he'll be blocked. You say that this is ignored, well if you see it please do come to my talk page and let me know where it's happening. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 09:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not entirely happy with this. I agree that you can block TTN for violating the GFDL and that making contribution history obscured is prima facia disruption. But I think you are understating flatscan's concern that what TTN does is indeed common practice. When flatscan says it is common I think he means it is common--as in, lots of folks do it. I have to say that I've done it the way TTN does it almost every time. And if the AfD closing script doesn't edit the target article when closing a debate as "redirect" I have probably done it very recently. Should I be blocked for copyright infringement? Should we consider apparent motive? Should we consider actual practice? I agree that TTN shouldn't do it anymore. I won't do it anymore. But I'll be damned if we are going to have a conversation about blocking someone for this when we brush aside the possibility of blocking someone for making deliberately deceitful edit summaries. Protonk (talk) 19:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I second Protonk's above comment. I'm another frequent merge-and-redirecter who doesn't mention the source in the merged-to article. Well, I'll avoid doing that from now on. But anyhow. Whomever minds Template:Oldafd might consider appending to the end of the template, "Content merged to another article" --because a lot of these are left in the hands of the article's frequent editors to merge "soon", rather than the closing admin. immediately-- "needs to be attributed back to this article." But that doesn't address merge-and-redirects done specifically to circumvent AfD. --EEMIV (talk) 22:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- A redirect isn't the issue, it's the merge where content transfers from one article to another. In the AfD closing script that I use, when I close as redirect it simply redirects the article over, if I close it as merge, it tags the page to be merged (not redirect it) and editors should manually merge the content over. I said it up above somewhere, if people see a merge taking place where edits aren't attributed properly then they are more than happy to come to my talk and tell me and I'll gladly deal with it. The project is licensed under the GFDL, when editors release their content they do so on the understanding that if it appears somewhere else they will still get the appropriate credit for it. When you don't give proper attribution, you break the GFDL and therefore infringe on copyright making the type of merges that TTN was doing extremely serious and problematic - certainly block worthy if they continue past a warning. If you have concerns about A nobody using deceitful edit summaries, then by all means start a new thread about that, giving evidence and I'll happily take a look at that. The concern with this thread is TTN's merges that go against the GFDL. Ryan PostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or let's have banter 23:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- We seem to have the same discussion in three places now. As I said elswehere, the GFDL is not violated here. Editors are not authors. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 23:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I meant this subsection to be a discussion notice. I'll link it once it's archived. Flatscan (talk) 04:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Editors are authors. See WP:C. --Moonriddengirl(talk) 14:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- The policy says nothing of the kind, see elsewhere. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 16:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- Such as Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Merge edit summaries and GFDL attribution? I believe you may be misunderstanding GFDL in this regard. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:41, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- The policy says nothing of the kind, see elsewhere. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 16:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
- I understand. I hope TTN does as well. The likely result of this thread is that TTN will take a few more steps in the merging of content and everyone will be happy. I don't mean to make this about A Nobody. I just want to make sure we aren't grabbing Al Capone for tax evasion here. We should make sure that the gravity of this specific offense matches up with the severity of the warning and the threat. We should further assume good faith from TTN that when he says "merged" in the edit summary it actually isn't a "deceptive edit summary" but a good faith attempt to note that he merged content. I don't think the right step from a warning from A Nobody (which TTN is likely not to take seriously, but that is neither here nor there) is a threat stating that he will be blocked for disruption. Protonk (talk) 23:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- It's different. TTN was warned by an admin specifically about merging without attributing the source article before, yet they continued. That means to me TTN is not ignorant of these GFDL issues, they are deliberately ignoring it. As such, a block is reasonable should there be further copyright violations from this user. --PeaceNT (talk) 10:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- What would it take to get you to make this a thread about A Nobody? His behaviour before that vanishing hogwash was abysmal, and it hasn't improved since. Using deceitful edit summaries to mask the undoing of redirects is a serious problem, even if it isn't a GFDL licensing problem.—Kww(talk) 04:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- If you really want to go off topic and disrupt this thread further, then why not discuss your own "abysmal" behavior, including lack of edit summaries, such as this edit where you not only "forgot" to add an edit summary and say to support per someone who opposed thereby misrepresenting that person's oppose and creating needless drama and baiting of said editor? Why do you try to escalate things with editors? I am here to help build a paperless encyclopedia not perpetuate disputes. Why fixate viciously and mockingly on your invented opponents to the point of being dishonest? Derailing threads like this one serves no worthwhile purpose; it doesn't bring any articles to featured status; it just needlessly adds to the animosity among editors and beyond this post, I am not willing to feed into such unconstructive time wastes any further. Besides, if your feigned outrage about my edit summaries has any validity, then how about this descriptive edit summary by one of your allies or do you only care to harass those with whom you disagree while neglecting what you and your associates do? In any event, these mischaracterizations of my edit is in effect this edit from two weeks ago, in which I indeed changed the format of the article. The one intermediate edit I ignored was this unilateral and pointed edit that went against the consensus of an AfD, but it is something how some like to twist things. The reality is that my edits since my return have been immensely constructive and proactive as recognized by good faith contributors at User:A_Nobody#List_of_editors_who_have_agreed_with_my_arguments_or_made_other_nice_observations_about_my_efforts and User:A_Nobody#Barnstars.2C_cookies.2C_smiles.2C_and_thanks. I wouldn't claim to know everything or be perfect and I do try to learn from things and adjust how I do things accordingly. And even editors with whom I have disagreed in the past such as Magioladitis and MuZemike have been open to good faith reconciliation as seen at User_talk:A_Nobody#Clarification and User_talk:A_Nobody#ANI.2Feditor_review, respectively. In fact any editor who is here to build an encyclopedia and not unhealthily fixated and blinded by past disputes has or would move on and focus his or her energy on contributing to this project. Wikipedia is not some battleground or it shouldn't be where editors try to "get" each other. It should be a place where we volunteers work to catalog human knowledge. Yes, these volunteers won't always agree, but there's no real reason why they would lose focus of that primary effort to instead lash out at those they dislike at any chance they can. I am forgiving of those with whom I have disagreed in the past and hope that we can all work together constructively and if we cannot get along then there is no legitimate reason why any of us cannot ignore those also willing to ignore us. If you want to one-sidely continue to fixate on me, misrepresent my edits, etc., then know that I am not interested in humoring unnecessary and disruptive attempts to dramatize things. I hope that you will have the maturity to let bygones be bygones and to use your energy to contribute constructively to our project as I have and will continue to do. If I learned anything from my recent experiences it is that this hostility, bordering on hatred does no good for anyone. Phrases like "Can't we all just get along" may seem quaint if not utopian, but the truth is yes, we can. We just have to consciously decide to do so. I decide that I am here to build an encyclopdia and help spread wikilove by welcoming other editors, rescuing articles, and to as best as possible ignore efforts to distract our purpose here. I forgive any editors who had caused me grief in the past and who have either moved on or reconciled with me and I apologize for any mistakes I have made as an editor. I think any decent person contributing here can and would do the same. Now, I and I am sure all good faith editors will go back to doing what we can to improve this wonderful opportunity Mr. Wales has created for us to provide the world with a comprehensive free encyclopedia. I hope you will join us in that. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 16:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
- We seem to have the same discussion in three places now. As I said elswehere, the GFDL is not violated here. Editors are not authors. Guido den Broeder (talk, visit) 23:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not entirely happy with this. I agree that you can block TTN for violating the GFDL and that making contribution history obscured is prima facia disruption. But I think you are understating flatscan's concern that what TTN does is indeed common practice. When flatscan says it is common I think he means it is common--as in, lots of folks do it. I have to say that I've done it the way TTN does it almost every time. And if the AfD closing script doesn't edit the target article when closing a debate as "redirect" I have probably done it very recently. Should I be blocked for copyright infringement? Should we consider apparent motive? Should we consider actual practice? I agree that TTN shouldn't do it anymore. I won't do it anymore. But I'll be damned if we are going to have a conversation about blocking someone for this when we brush aside the possibility of blocking someone for making deliberately deceitful edit summaries. Protonk (talk) 19:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Comment: Discussion continued at Help talk:Merging and moving pages#Merge edit summaries. This resolved thread here should be archived. Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 16:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
