위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive923
Wikipedia:IP 주소는 페이지를 반복적으로 파괴한다.
IP 차단됨.(비관리자 폐쇄) GABHello! 23:53, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
199.189.61.37(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)은 팻 맥크로리와 공공시설 개인정보보호 및 보안법 조항을 반복적으로 훼손했다.우선 그들은 이러한 기사에 편향되고 불충분하게 소싱된 정보를 추가했다.이러한 편집은 취소되었고 사용자 페이지에 관심이 집중되었다.사용자가 다시 한 번 비슷한 정보를 추가했는데, 이 정보가 제거되었다.이용자는 다시 경고를 받고 기사들의 토크 페이지로 가라는 지시를 받았지만 거절했다.대신, 그들은 이유 없이 공공 시설 사생활 보호법 기사에서 모든 부분을 삭제하는 것에 의존했다.다른 편집자들이 그들에게 주는 일련의 경고는 그들의 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있다.윌타체리더18 (대화) 23:14, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
사용자 블록 요청:카제트
이것도 닫을 거야.SPI 담당자가 이미 Sockpupting의 연령 때문에 차단되지 않을 것이라고 말한 것을 고려하면, 나는 WP 이외의 다른 행위와 동일한 행동의 차단을 보지 못한다.기타 부모 상황.만약 사람들이 이전의 SPI 사건에서 아직 논의되지 않은 단 하나의 사건이라도 여기서 논의하고 있다면, 내 토크 페이지에 나를 올려서 다시 생각해 보겠다.만약 그렇지 않다면, 너희 둘 다 그것에 대해 책임을 져라.MShabazz는 폐쇄와 상관없이, 나는 적어도 당신이 그것이 당신의 편집이었다는 것을 인정했다고 믿는다.만약 그렇다면, 나는 우리가 로그인한 편집과 서명되지 않은 편집 둘 다에 대해 당신의 불친절함에 대해 공정한 토론을 할 수 있다고 생각한다.비록 당신이 당신의 명명된 도플갱어 계정을 사용했더라도, 이 논평들은 적절하지 않다.그러나 2015년 말 편집된 내용은 현재 진행 중이라는 어떠한 징후도 없이, 나는 지금으로서는 징벌에 지나지 않는다.나는 양쪽 모두 이 경고에 주의를 기울일 것을 제안한다: (1) MShabazz, 더 이상 무죄, 서명 또는 로그인이 되든 안 되든 간에, 특히 SPI 보고서에서 경고받은 바와 같이, 서명하는 동안 당신이 하고 있는 편집과 분명히 관련이 있는 경우에는, 더 이상 서명되지 않은 편집 작업을 하지 말 것. (2) Caseeart, 더 이상 MShabazz의 사전 설명이나 언급은 하지 말 것.오늘날에도 계속되지 않는 한 행하다그리고 그렇다, 나는 엠 그레고리가 MShabazz와 연계된 IP 편집자로부터 공격받는 것이 관련이 있다는 것을 알고 있다. 하지만 양쪽 모두 앞으로 나아가서 당신의 시간과 관련이 있는 다른 것을 찾도록 권한다. -- Ricky81682 (대화) 22:30, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
카제트 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
몇 달 동안, Caseeart는 나에게 집착했어.그들은 9월부터 나를 속였다고 비난해 왔다.[1][2] 많은 편집자들로부터 내가 잘못한 것이 없다는 말을 들었음에도 불구하고, 그들은 나를 고발했다.그게 뜻대로 되지 않자, 그들은 불평을 가지고 왔다.그들은 막대기를 떨어뜨리라고 들었다.대신에 그들은 위에서 나를 공격했다. 내가 꾸민 반증적인 거짓말을 되풀이하면서, 나에게 알리지 않았다.[3][4]
Caseeart는 "WP에서 약 3미크론"이라고 말했다.부메랑"이곳에서의 그들의 최근 행동에 대해 차단해 줄 것을 요청한다.— 말릭 샤바즈 Stalk/ 2016년 12시 21분, 5월 5일 (UTC)[
- Sockpupting See Sockpuppet 조사/Malik_Shabazz 점장은 실제로 유효한 Sockpuppet 조사이며, Sabbazz가 66.87.114.76.42, 66.87.114.248, 63.116.31.198을 전쟁 편집 및 인신공격에 사용하고 있다는 점에 동의하였다.
- 샤브바즈를 막지 않은 유일한 이유는 샤브바즈가 "몇 달 전"이었기 때문이다.그러나 삭푸펫 보고서의 목적도 (아래에서 보게 될 바와 같이) 기록을 위한 것이다.
- DOPPELGAENGER 계정 관리자들은 또한 계정 사용자:MShabazz는 WP가 될 수 없다.DOPPELGAENGER 계정은 샤바즈가 편집에 사용하기 때문에 [5] 변경을 요청했고, "이러한 계정은 편집에 사용해서는 안 된다"고 했다.샤브바즈는 다른 관리자가 샤브바즈의 페이지에 들어가 그것을 변경할 때까지 듣지 않았다[6].
- 샤브바즈의 인신공격에 대한 이전 ANI. 나의 ANI가 왜 유효한지 설명하겠다.Sockpuppet 조사 때 - 한 관리자가 내가 한 ANI에서의 인신공격에 대해 보고하는 것에 대해 나에게 조언했다.나는 그 사건을 정확하게 제시하지 않았고 인신공격의 모든 이력의 목록을 보여주지 않았다. -모든 사람들이 샤브바즈의 모든 역사와 모든 차이점을 들여다보는 것을 방해하지는 않는다. 따라서 그것은 한 블록으로 끝나지 않았다.
샤브바츠는 내 글솜씨를 보고 거듭 웃었다.
다음은 다른 사용자들에 대한 공격 목록이다(이 모든 것이 며칠 내에 샤브바즈의 차단으로 가져온 친 이스라엘 편집자들을 겨냥한 것이라고 믿는다). 이 ANI와 이 ANI를 보십시오.
샤바즈는 자신의 실수에도 불구하고 "진실을 회복하는 것. 사람들은 이것을 무시할 수 있다. 당신이 원하는 것은, 나는 하지 않을 것이다."라는 요약과 함께 섞이지 않는 무브디젤이다.
- "내 좆도 빨아도 돼, 개자식아" [12]
- "이제 도대체 누가 유태인 소년이 나를 괴롭히고 있다는 사실을 말할 것인가?아니면 위키피디아에서 깜둥이를 쫓아내는 것만이 괜찮을까?"[13]
- "그동안 재미있었던 만큼, 소니보이, 작별을 고할 거야."[14]
- 삭제된 편집 요약 내 생각에 샤브바즈는 사용자를 "머리 아픈 사람"이라고 부르고 있었다.[15]
- 삭제된 인신공격
샤브바즈가 차단된 후 - 점원이 (유효한 삭푸펫 조사 때문에) 이러한 IP로 편집하고 있는 것처럼 보이고 공격을 계속했다.
- 66.87.168.76 "무서운 멍청이는 공공 기물 파손이 무엇인지 또는 경고 템플릿을 남기는 방법을 모른다"[16]
- 63.116.31.198 "그러니까 날 막으려고 협박하는 거야." [17][18]
- 내 ANI가 정말 무효였나?
- E.M.의 ANI 이상.그레고리: IP 66.87.114.76 (앞서 말한 샤브바즈로 결정된) User:E.M.을 공격했다.그레고리는 그들을 "젠장 바보"라고 불렀다.이것은 숀 이후 위의 논의와 매우 관련이 있다.호일랜드는 특히 이 차단을 이용해 그레고리가 호일랜드와 샤브바즈 POV 푸셔에게 전화를 걸었다고 보고했다.샤브바즈가 E.M. 그레고리도 공격했다는 이야기의 양면을 보여주는 것이 중요했다.그러나 여전히 나는 보고서를 더 이상 궤도에 오르지 않고 보고서를 샤브바즈 토론으로 되돌리지 않기 위해 일부러 ANI에서 샤브바즈를 단 한 번도 이름 짓지 않았다.(분명히 샤브바즈를 보도할 의도는 전혀 없었다. 이름 없는 하나의 차이점 - 나는 이제 그 차이점을 찾을 수 있을지 의심스럽다.)
- 오늘 샤브바즈는 아무런 증거도 제시하지 않고 나를 "영구적인 편집 전사"[20]라고 불렀다.사실 샤브바츠는 며칠 동안 기사 토크 페이지에 아무런 반응을 보이지 않았다[21].샤브바즈가 이에 동의/탈퇴한 것으로 보인다.따라서 나는 그의 우려를 해소하고 편집(내 능력과 이해에 맞게)을 수정하여 다시 기사에 넣었는데, 그것은 결코 편집 전쟁이나 형식이 아니다(내가 틀렸는지 내게 알려줘).(지금 막, AFT Shabbazz가 다시 우리의 토크 페이지 토론에 응답하지 않고 내 편집을 되돌렸다 - 마침내 되돌린 후에 다른 사용자가 참여하여 응답했다.)
나는 마침내 거의 모든 친 이스라엘 편집자들이 결국 금지되는 이유를 이해하기 시작했다.나는 그 주제를 편집한 적이 없고 최근에야 다른 것을 고치려고 애쓰게 되었다.갑자기 경고를 받기 시작했고 보고를 받았다.정말 뭔가 해야 할 일이 있는데 여기서 의논할 일이 아니다.
내 의견: 나는 WP로부터 약 3미크론의 의미를 알지 못한다.부메랑" 나는 "3미크론"이라는 단어를 이해하지 못하며, 나는 이 토론에서 명확히 하려고 노력했지만 응답을 받지 못했다.
나는 결코 차단된 적이 없고 규칙을 어길 의도가 없다.만약 관리자가 내가 어떤 식으로든 부적절하게 행동했다고 판단한다면- 나에게 알려주면 나는 그만할 것이고, 필요하다면 샤브바즈와의 어떤 논의도 일정 기간 동안 중단시키고 다시는 이 문제에 대해 이야기하지 않을 것이다.
당분간은 안 될 겁니다. 만약 어떤 조치가 취해진다면(폐쇄나 경고 이외에는) 내가 돌아올 때까지 기다리세요.CaseeArt 16:03, 2016년 5월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것이 TL;DR이 역량이 필요하고 당신이 역량이 부족하다는 것을 인정하는 것이라고 생각한다.감사합니다.— 말릭 샤바즈Talk/Stalk20:32, 2016년 5월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이것이 끝나면 나는 위키피디아 편집을 잠시 쉴 것이다.
- 소름끼치는 인신공격에 대해 어떤 조치를 취할 사람이 있을까?첫 번째 공격의 물결은 Shabazz의 Blocks를 초래했고 Arb Comminttee 미팅을 촉발하여 WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 - 이스라엘 팔레스타인의 기사에 관한 매우 엄격한 규칙.
- 샤바즈가 한 걸음 더 나아가 IP 주소를 이용한 친이스라엘 편집자들에 대한 인신공격(인신공격)을 시작했기 때문에 그 모든 것이 도움이 되지 않았다.해결책이 있는 사람?CaseeArt Talk(04:40, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Caseeart:그것은 매우 간단하다: 말릭에 대한 당신의 마지막 SPI는 폐쇄되었다.Malik이 양말퍼팅에 관여했다고 계속 주장하지 말아줘.만약 당신이 그것을 추구하고 싶다면, 적절한 장소는 SPI이다.나는 또한 왜 당신이 MShabazz를 완전히 관계없는 논쟁에 끌어들였는지 모르겠다.당신은 "친이스라엘" 혹은 "친팔레스타인"의 렌즈를 통해 모든 것을 보는 것 같다.우리 모두는 POV를 가지고 있지만, 그것이 우리가 하는 모든 것이 POV에 의해 결정된다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.WP:BATTLUNG을 읽어보십시오. Kingsindian♝♚ 05:02, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Kingsindian Shabazz의 주장과는 반대로, Last sockpuppet 보고서는 Shabbazz가 IP 주소를 전쟁과 인신공격 편집에 사용하고 있다는 것을 확인했다.또한 나의 반응을 읽어라 - 나는 그를 어떤 논쟁에도 끌어들이려고 하지 않았다 나는 그 사건에 대한 증거로 단지 차이점을 제시했다.CaseeArtTalk 05:13, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Caseeart:나는 SPI 사건의 장점에 대한 토론으로 전환되지 않을 것이다.문 닫았으니까 그게 중요한 거야만약 당신이 그것을 추구하고 싶다면, SPI에서 다른 케이스를 열어라.또는 MShabazz에 대한 ANI 사건을 원하면 여기서 별도의 사건을 열어라. 전혀 관련이 없는 논쟁에서 그를 꺼내지 마라.그 동안 양말퍼플링에 대한 당신의 주장을 비밀에 부치시오.Kingsindian♝♚ 05:31, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Kingsindian 내가 분명히 말하겠다:나는 ANI도 아니고 SPI도 아닌 어떤 형태나 형태로든 그 누구에 대한 어떤 사건도 추구하려고 하지 않았다.중복된 SPI의 의미는 없다 - 점원은 이미 샤브바즈에게 멈추라고 경고했다.나는 어디에서도 샤바즈 이름을 거론하지 않았고, 디프는 증거 목적만을 위한 것이었다. (그리고 만약 내가 "diff"를 제시하는 것이 실수였다면 - 그렇다면 이 SPI 사건은 언급할 수 없다는 것을 (관리자에 의해) 통지받도록 하라.CaseeArt 05:42, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Caseeart:나는 SPI 사건의 장점에 대한 토론으로 전환되지 않을 것이다.문 닫았으니까 그게 중요한 거야만약 당신이 그것을 추구하고 싶다면, SPI에서 다른 케이스를 열어라.또는 MShabazz에 대한 ANI 사건을 원하면 여기서 별도의 사건을 열어라. 전혀 관련이 없는 논쟁에서 그를 꺼내지 마라.그 동안 양말퍼플링에 대한 당신의 주장을 비밀에 부치시오.Kingsindian♝♚ 05:31, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Kingsindian Shabazz의 주장과는 반대로, Last sockpuppet 보고서는 Shabbazz가 IP 주소를 전쟁과 인신공격 편집에 사용하고 있다는 것을 확인했다.또한 나의 반응을 읽어라 - 나는 그를 어떤 논쟁에도 끌어들이려고 하지 않았다 나는 그 사건에 대한 증거로 단지 차이점을 제시했다.CaseeArtTalk 05:13, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- @Caseeart:그것은 매우 간단하다: 말릭에 대한 당신의 마지막 SPI는 폐쇄되었다.Malik이 양말퍼팅에 관여했다고 계속 주장하지 말아줘.만약 당신이 그것을 추구하고 싶다면, 적절한 장소는 SPI이다.나는 또한 왜 당신이 MShabazz를 완전히 관계없는 논쟁에 끌어들였는지 모르겠다.당신은 "친이스라엘" 혹은 "친팔레스타인"의 렌즈를 통해 모든 것을 보는 것 같다.우리 모두는 POV를 가지고 있지만, 그것이 우리가 하는 모든 것이 POV에 의해 결정된다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.WP:BATTLUNG을 읽어보십시오. Kingsindian♝♚ 05:02, 2016년 5월 6일 (UTC)[
- 당신이 이 섹션을 열었을 때, 당신이 그들을 비난한 '거짓말'이라고 비난했던 것을 볼 때 - 당신이 도플갱어 계정과 IP를 양손에 사용했을 때, 그들이 막대기를 떨어뜨리고 당신에 대해 그것을 만드는 것에 대해 불평하는 것은 약간 부자다.오직 죽음만이 의무는 끝난다(대화) 10:42, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
- WP의 어느 부분:SOCK 및 WP:스틱은 당신에게 불명확한가?난 절대 SOCK을 위반하지 않았어.Caseeart는 그들이 원하는 만큼 자주 말할 수 있지만, 소원이 그렇게 되지 않을 것이다.— MShabazzTalk/Stalk11:08, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- WP의 첫 번째 단락:SOCK은 사실."여러 위키백과 사용자 계정을 부적절한 목적으로 사용하는 것을 양말 인형술(흔히 토론에서 양말이라고 약칭)이라고 한다.부적절한 목적에는 다른 편집자를 속이거나 오도하거나, 토론을 방해하거나, 합의를 왜곡하거나, 제재를 회피하거나, 지역사회의 표준과 정책을 위반하려는 시도가 포함된다."-여러 계정과 IP 주소를 부적절한 목적으로 사용하고 있었다.특히 IP 주소와의 교전 및 편집은 다음 단락에서 다룬다. 여기서 "IP 주소로서 문제가 있는 편집을 하기 위해 로그아웃"이라고 한다.나는 반자게니제를 직접 인용할 것이다: "샤바츠는 IP를 편집 전쟁과 인신공격에 이용했다."당신은 WP에 따른 명시적 정의를 맹렬히 비난하고 있었다.SOCK. 오직 죽음만이 의무 종료를 한다(토크) 11:21, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
- WP의 어느 부분:SOCK 및 WP:스틱은 당신에게 불명확한가?난 절대 SOCK을 위반하지 않았어.Caseeart는 그들이 원하는 만큼 자주 말할 수 있지만, 소원이 그렇게 되지 않을 것이다.— MShabazzTalk/Stalk11:08, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
FreeatlastChitchat 의견 및 개정 필요:
폭풍과 찻잔에 대해서는 모르지만 "인도인의 근원은 거짓말일 뿐"과 같은 논평은 막을 수 없고 정말 아무 관심도 없다.우리 모두 여기서 싸우기 전에 닫아야 할 것 같아.여러분 모두 진정하시고, 토크 페이지 등을 이용하시고, 국적이나 이런 것들을 비밀로 해주시고, 등등.드레이미스 (대화) 03:56, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
@FreeatlastChitchat: 이 편집자는 최근에 내가 몇 주 동안 토론에 참여했던 야다브에 관한 매우 논쟁적인 토크 페이지의 항목을 되돌리기 위한 그들의 추리에 이와 같은 의견을 포함시키기로 결정했다.메가마이트의 복면인은 이미 두 명의 다른 편집자에게 그런 식으로 행동하지 말라고 경고했고, 기사에 반 블록(완전히 보호받으라고 하는 것은 아니지만)이 있더라도 이런 종류의 언어는 내용에 대한 토론을 하는 데 도움이 되지 않는다고 느낀다.편집자들이 POV를 이 기사에서 빼놓을 수 없는 명백한 무능함에 대해 ANI 조언과 공식적인 결정을 요청한다.나는 경고받고 관여된 특정 사용자들이 영어를 모국어로 말하지 않고, 다양한 사람들의 시도 부족은 아니지만, 결국 어떤 의미 있는 토론을 시도하는 것은 상당히 문제가 되고 있다고 본다.나는 요청은 하지 않지만 몇 가지 더 조언해 줘.위의 'subt-ANI'를 올바르게 사용할 수 있는 방법을 아직 구상 중이므로 사용자에게 알리지 않았다.하지만 나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 기본적인 것을 넣을 것이다.
나의 감사 Nürö 00:15, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- 너는 조언을 구했고 여기 나의 조언이 있다.더 좋은 소스를 찾아봐라, 이 원천은 너무 많은 POV 언어를 가지고 있다. 예를 들어, 파키스탄을 국가로 지칭하는 "거짓말의 빠크"와 같은 말이다.우리는 그러한 BS 출처를 처음부터 허용해서는 안 된다.Freeatlast Chitchat에 대해서는, 그는 그가 부르는 것을 소스로 부르고 있다.그의 서술은 편집자를 위한 것이 아니다.나는 실의 봉합을 제안한다.FreeatlastChitchat과 스레드 스타터가 조언되었다.고마워!보안관 인터뷰 911 00:26, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- 너는 너의 논평에서 나를 잘못 전했고, 편집자가 사용하는 언어를 무시했다, 무뚝뚝하게.
- 누뢰 00:49, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- 언제 SPADE를 "SPAADE"라고 부르는 것이 위법행위가 되었는가?
국수주의적이고 고도로 POV인도의 출처가 거짓을 삽입하는 데 사용되어 왔다(정치적으로 올바른 용어로 다른 것을 거짓말이라고 하는 것은 나는 전혀 알지 못하지만 거짓은 내가 가지고 있는 거짓말의 가장 PC적인 단어인 atm을 가지고 있는 것이다) 그러나 로하니는 이 보고서를 일축하고 RAW의 발루치스탄 개입은 루무라고 덧붙였다.r. 그러나 이것은 로하니가 말한 것과는 정반대다.내 말을 믿지 말고 경제시대와 힌두교의 말만 들어라, 둘 다 인도의 신문이다.모든 신문에는 1)루하니가 PAKIST 참모총장과 RAW의 개입에 대한 대화가 있었느냐고 물었고 2)ROW에 대한 내부 논의에 대한 생각을 소문이라고 일축했다는 내용이 실릴 것이다.Rowhani가 RAW의 개입에 대해 질문을 받았다고 주장하는 SONE 신문은 한 곳도 없으며 NO, RAW는 관여하지 않는다고 말했다.그는 관여가 아니라 내부 논의의 루머에 대해 이야기하고 있다.나는 또한 이것이 이미 TP에 대해 논의되었고 합의가 이루어졌다는 것을 지적하고 싶다.우리는 여기서 NOM도 토론에 참여하였음을 알 수 있다. 그러나 그는 편리하게 핑을 무시하기로 선택하였고, 이미 결정된 이슈에 대해 편집하였다.요약하자면
- 유목민들은 위키피디아의 논쟁적인 주제를 다루는 데 경험이 있는 멘토로부터 어떻게 편집하는지 배워야 한다.만약 그가 자유롭다면 MShahbaz등과 같은 누군가가 그들이 원한다면 그 일을 맡을 수 있다.그는 국수주의적인 출처에서 온 텍스트를 다루는 방법을 차근차근 가르쳐야 하는 숙련된 편집자의 지도를 받아야 한다.멘토는 이런 신문들이 그동안 말하지 않았던 것을 '말하게' 하기 위해 다양한 국제 인사들의 말을 '뒤틀기' 쉽다는 것을 가르쳐야 한다.멘토는 또한 그에게 그러한 출처를 다룰 때 기사 전체를 제목만 읽는 것이 아니라 일렬로 읽는 것이 비활력적이라는 것을 가르쳐야 한다.명목상 역시 사실 확인의 기초에 대해 배워야 하며, 논란이 되는 주제를 다룰 때 편집자는 기사에 "사실"을 기재하고 있는지 확실히 하기 위해 여러 출처를 확인해야 한다.
- (인신공격) WP에 관한 한:나와 다른 편집자의 영어에 대한 NPA가 염려되는 바, 나는 만약 그 지명자가 사과를 한다면 기꺼이 그것을 놓아줄 것이다.
- 다음 번에 어떤 문제에 의해 유목민이 짜증을 낼 때, 그는 그 문제가 이미 논의된 문제가 아니라는 것을 확실히 해야 한다.스레드 괴사성은 포럼이나 뭐 그런 것에서는 꽤 우스꽝스럽지만, 여기 위키백과에서는 단지 번거로움을 만들 뿐이다. 그래서 다음 번에 유목민이 누군가가 잘못하고 있다고 생각할 때는 TP를 잠깐 살펴보기만 하면 된다. 어쩌면 그 문제는 이미 논의되었을지도 모른다.
FreeatlastChitchat (대화) 03:26, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- 논평 - FreeatlastChitchat은 출처에 대해 필리버스터를 하고 있지만, 이것은 출처에 관한 것이 아니라 그에 관한 것이다.간밤에 여기서 대답하고 나서 그는 가서 다음과 같은 언어로 페이지를 두 번 더 되짚어 보았다.
- 그 과정에서 편집자 3명 이상과 편집전을 벌이며 3RR에 도달하는 한편, 마지막 언블록이라는 조건에 따라 자발적으로 1RR을 지키겠다고 약속한 것으로 알고 있다.나중에 그는 발로치스탄 분쟁에서 한 달치 편집한 것을 취소하고 큰 반격을 했다.이 모든 것이 하루의 일에 있어서 좋은 것이다.내가 보기에 프리마트라스트는 위키피디아의 인내심을 시험하는 것 같다.
- (피랍되지 않은 이들에 대해 파키스탄은 이란에 근거지를 둔 인도 국적을 자국 영토 내에서 체포했다고 주장하며 그를 간첩이라고 비난한 반면, 인도는 그가 이란 내부나 이란-파키스탄 국경에서 납치된 것으로 의심하고 있다.이란은 두 주장 사이의 진실을 가릴 수 있는 유일한 나라이며 이란 수사는 에피소드 전체의 열쇠다.) -- 카틀랴3 (대화) 17:31, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- 의견: 드래곤 플라이는 정당한 이유 없이 자신의 POV를 밀고 프리래틀러스를 끌고 있는데, 그 이유는 다음과 같다.
- Dragon Fly는 Talk에서 다음 코너를 열었던 사람이다.Kulbushan Yadav는 이 기사에서 언급된 모든 출처의 신뢰성에 대해 언급했다.
- 그리고 나서 그는 이 출처들 중 어느 것도 믿을 만한 것은 없다고 계속해서 말했다.
- 그리고 나서 그는 "뉴 인디안 익스프레스"가 "이 문제에 대해 노골적으로 국수주의적이며 유익해지려 하지 않는다"고 명시적으로 선언한다. 나는 이 출처를 지지하지 않을 것이다"라고 말했다. 그리고 "뉴 인디안 익스프레스"는 형편없이 쓰여졌다. 그것은 별로 다루지 않거나 정확하게 쓰여져 있지 않다. 즉, 그는 자신의 견해에 부합하지 않는 출처를 거부한다.
- 그러나 그가 단호히 거부했던 같은 출처/신문(New Indian Express)이 자신의 POV와 의견을 밀어붙이자, 그는 연속해서 두 번의 반전을 감행한다.이것과 이것(두 편집자에 대해 연속적으로 되돌림)
- 제 말은, 그는 뉴 인디안 익스프레스 기사의 현재 상태를 구성하는 출처, 정확히 말하면 뉴 인디안 익스프레스 기사는 RS가 아니며 민족주의적이며, 따라서 제거되어야 한다고 발표하면서 섹션마다 기사를 작성하지만, 동일한 출처가 그의 POV를 지원하면 편집 전쟁을 개시하고 심지어 ANI에서 사용자까지 출처를 의심하는 것에 대해 보고하는 것인가?
- 이는 드래곤플라이가 "출처가 RS가 아니라는 것을 증명하라" "현 상태의 기사가 어떤 정확한 정책을 위반하는지를 지적하라"고 반복적이고 단정적으로 요청받은 사실과 무관하다.그는 다른 편집자로부터도 같은 제안을 받았고, 같은 편집자로부터 주류 뉴스 출처를 '타블로이드 민족주의 선전'으로 특징짓지 말 것과 위키백과 정책을 확인할 필요가 있다는 조언도 받았다.그러나 소용이 없었다.대신 그는 편집 전쟁에 참여하여 프리래스트 편집자가 아니라 프리래스트가 편집 요약서에 출처에 대해 언급만 했음에도 불구하고 여기서 그에게 도전했을 때 프리래스트에게 보고한다.
- 드래곤플라이가 전체를 다시 쓰겠다고 하면서 왜 건방지고 기사를 소유하는지 모르겠다.—TripWire ︢ wire ︢ 21 ︢ 21 21 21ʞlɐʇ 21:25, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
FreeatlastChitchat에게 보여준 관용에 대한 논평
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive_editing_in_Russian_soldier.27s_article 위에 이미 활성 ANI가 있고, 이제 이것이 있다.또한 WP도 있다.AE 케이스 진행 중.나는 이 사용자가 여기서 어떻게 살아남고 있는지 혼란스럽다.한두 명에 국한되지 않고 이 남자로부터 괴롭힘을 당했던 사용자들이 많다.이틀 전 이전 디스커버리지를 닫으려 했던 한 IP는 프리탈레스치치는 장기 제재에 면역이 된다고 논평했다.FreeatlastChitchat은 이 프로젝트에 전반적으로 부정적인, 매우 훌륭한 콘텐츠 제작자는 아니다.그의 편향된 pov를 좋아하는 사용자들만이 그를 지지한다.그가 위키호킹 음호세인 시절, 러시아 군인에 관한 기사를 만든 새로운 사용자를 괴롭힌 것에 대해 어떤 관리자도 그에게 경고하지 않았다.2A03:4A80:7:441:8891:78E4:8E9C:106E (대화) 01:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 단지 내가 위키피디아에 반대하는 목소리를 분류하는 한 편집자에 대한 캠페인이 진행되고 있다는 것을 증명하는 것 뿐이고, 세계의 다른 모든 곳과 마찬가지로, 아무도 여기에서도 반대하는 목소리를 좋아하지 않는다.사람들은 그 목소리를 멈추기 위해 필사적이다.나는 위키피디아가 많은 다른 관점을 가진 사람들에 의해 편집될 수 있도록 이러한 전화들이 거부되었으면 한다.보안관 인터뷰 911 02:21, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 왜 관여하는지는 잘 모르겠지만, 당신은 이것을 위키피디아의 반대 의견으로 간주한다.삭제 조항/알렉산더 프로호렌코.그들의 Keep표와 Freeatlast Chitchat는 모두 틀렸고, 음호세인의 기고를 체크한 것이 옳았고, 기사를 만든 스리랑카 출신의 새 편집자를 괴롭힌 AFD에 기사를 지명했다.2A03:4A80:7:41A:9592:D44A:11A7:480E (대화) 03:07, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 의견 - AN/I 권한을 가진 사람이 판단과 모든 결정을 내리는 것은 내 우려를 게시했다.나는 IsInTown 보안관, TripWire 그리고 다른 파키스탄 편집자들이 행동하는 방식에 대한 논평에 들어가지 않을 것이다.권한이 있는 사람의 요청이 있을 때 나는 이 기사의 전체와 그 연설 페이지에 대해 진술할 것이다. 이는 AN/I에 의해 두 번째가 될 것이기 때문이다.마지막 노력을 AN/I에 보고하기 위한 기초가 되는 내 의견의 전체 목록을 준수한다.만약 내가 부족하다고 생각되면 그렇게 하겠지만, 나는 전체 기사가 AfD'ed가 되어야 한다고 생각한다. 또는 그들의 필요성은 많은 선임 편집자들이 길고 긴 ARBCOM이 되어야 한다고 생각한다. 그리고 후자는 아무도 시간을 보내고 싶어하지 않는 것이라고 생각하기에, 그들이 모방해야 하는, 그렇다면 전자가 가장 좋은 과정이다.나는 이것을 FA 스타일의 개입으로 간주하는 시점에 와 있으며, 논문에 편향되지 않은 어떤 것이든...
- 안부 전해요
- 누뢰 03:40, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 댓글 - 이 사용자(FreeatlastChitchat)는 내가 위키백과에서 "신비한 전술"을 사용한다고 말하면서 나를 개인적으로 공격했다.이런 종류의 언어는 그에게서 새로운 것이 아니다.그는 정말 상습범이다.가투스 (대화) 2016년 5월 8일 17:24 (UTC)[
- 그렇다면 프리아트라스트치치는 같은 코멘트에서 인신공격이 없도록 출처의 사실관계를 왜곡하는 것 같은데 왜 '미묘한 전술'을 적용한다고 생각하느냐고 설명한다.나는 "신비한 전술"이라는 말이 그렇게 가혹하다고 생각하지 않는다.다시, 위에서 설명했듯이 위키피디아는 대부분 어른들에 의해 편집되고 프리아트라스트치챗은 어른과 대화하고 있다고 가정했을지도 모른다.너는 ANI에서 모든 사소한 것을 신고해서는 안 된다.보안관 인터뷰 911 18:04, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
스팸 블랙리스트는 골칫거리다.
되돌리고 막혔다.이전 버전의 편집을 항상 누르고 블랙리스트에 있는 보관 파일을 잘라낼 수 있다(언도 여기서 잘라내지는 않을 것이다).기사가 어느 정도 반달리즘을 따라가는 동안 IP는 차단되었다. -- The Vidwalker 19:51, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)(비관리자 폐쇄)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
필립 드프랑코는 반란을 일으켰지만 나는 마지막 좋은 개정안에 스팸 블랙리스트에 올라 있는 archive.is이 포함되어 있어서 반달리즘을 되돌릴 수 없다.공공 기물 파손을 제거하는 데 필요한 관리자 지원위성발사기 엘 브리짓 07:06, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 나는 편집한 내용을 되돌리고 링크를 삭제했다.조누니크 (대화) 07:13, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 감사합니다, 여러분.반달들에게 이용당하기만을 기다리고 있기 때문에 블랙리스트 링크가 포함된 편집에 대해 경고만 하지 말고 완전히 차단하는 것은 솔직히 말이 안 된다.위성발사기 엘 브리짓 07:16, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 되돌리는 대신 실행 취소하면 저장하기 전에 블랙리스트에 있는 URL 제거와 같은 다른 변경도 할 수 있는 편집 창이 나타난다.—David Eppstein (대화) 18:29, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 감사합니다, 여러분.반달들에게 이용당하기만을 기다리고 있기 때문에 블랙리스트 링크가 포함된 편집에 대해 경고만 하지 말고 완전히 차단하는 것은 솔직히 말이 안 된다.위성발사기 엘 브리짓 07:16, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
ANI 프로젝트 페이지의 심각한 인신공격 및 명백한 부정직(또는 사기?)
6일 전, 아무도 자신들 스스로 몇 시간 후 신뢰할 수 있는 정보원을 근거로 수정한 BLP 위반에 대해 행정 조치를 취하지 않을 것이다.보잉! 제베디(토크)가 2016년 5월 9일(UTC) 19:02, 라고 말했다[ 하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자:E.M을 요청하는 사용자의 정확한 텍스트와 구조는 다음과 같다.Gregory는 BLP에서 차단/토픽 금지: 투표의 Diff of vote Diff of vote (특히 Huldra)
- 이로써 노골적인 BLP 위반을 복원해, 출처가 그런 말을 하지 않자 지명된 생활인이 아르메니아인에 대한 폭력 공격을 주창했다고 주장했다.특히 WP를 호출하는 제거 작업을 되돌릴 때 이를 잘 소싱되고 의미심장하다고 칭함:내가 주목하는 BLP는 살아있는 사람에 대한 자료가 선의의 BLP 반대 의견으로 삭제되었을 때, 추가, 복원 또는 삭제 취소를 원하는 편집자는 반드시 위키백과의 콘텐츠 정책을 준수해야 한다. 큰 변화 없이 복원하려면 먼저 공감대를 얻어야 한다.WP를 위반한 경우:BLP와 기본 상식.이 사용자들은 일반적으로 여기서 일한다. ----------Nableezy에 의한 코멘트
- E.M. 그레고리는 "아르메니아인에 대한 폭력적인 공격을 옹호했기 때문"이라고 썼다.그건 전혀 출처가 아니다.그러나 출처는 스웨덴어로 되어 있다(네; 읽을 수 있다), E.M. 그레고리는 출처를 읽을 수 있을까?(그 사람이 할 수 없는 것은 핑계라는 것이 아니다.) --------BY 헐드라 코멘트
E.M. 그레고리가 BLP 위반을 복구한다고 비난하고, 그 직후 의도적으로 그것을 배제한 E.M. 그레고리는 신뢰할 수 있는 새로운 소스를 추가하고 BLP 위반 텍스트를 완전히 수정함으로써, 모든 관리자가 Capaci를 가지고 있는 것은 아니기 때문에 관리자를 속여서 사용자를 차단하도록 사기성 ANI를 고발하는 것처럼 보인다.모든 코멘트를 조사하고 사실 여부를 확인한다.
헐드라의 선택적 보고/이력을 보고하지 않고 주제에서 벗어나지 않는 것에 대해 더 많은 것이 있는 것 같다.CaseeArt 07:37, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- E.M.으로 미루어 볼 때그레고리는 같은 날 BLP를 준수하도록 작업을 수정했다. (추가적으로 5월 3일, 6일 전): 신뢰할 수 있는 출처, 어구는 출처에서 사용된 것을 반영한다.*지금*의 문제는 무엇인가?어떤 것을 BLP 문제로 보고하기 위해 6일을 기다렸다는 것은 그것이 그렇게 큰 문제가 아니었다는 것을 분명히 보여준다. 그렇지 않았다면 더 빨리 했을 것이다.Caseeart가 위에서 지적한 바와 같이, 문제가 해결된 곳에 다음과 같은 차이점을 빠뜨리는 것은 매우 의심스러운 일이다.첫째로, 그것은 BLP 위반 자료를 복구하기 위해 편집 전쟁을 벌이는 누군가의 관점에서 그레고리를 그리고, 둘째로 그것은 고의적으로 오해를 불러일으킬 뿐이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 08:02, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
이것은 어서스터스 고스트의 형사인 블루가 자신의 주제인 블랙의 공허함을 설명하기 위해 이야기를 구성하는 것과 같다.만약 두 사람이 좋은 자세로 두 편집자의 행동을 설명하기 위해 이론을 구성한다면, 적어도 질투를 던지기 전에 더 강력한 추론을 이용하려는 노력을 할 수 있을 것이다.나는 많은 사람들이 다른 사람에 대한 상상을 즐긴다는 것을 알지만, "심각한 인신공격과 명백한 부정직함(또는 사기?)"과 "그냥 고의적으로 오도하는 것"과 같은 것들을 쓰기 전에 다른 이론들을 고려해야 한다.그리고 이게 "BLP 위반 자료를 복구하기 위해 편집전을 벌이는 누군가의 빛으로 그레고리를 그린다"는 이름인가?그들은 Nableezy가 설명한 대로 "BLP 침해 자료를 복구하기 위한 편집 전쟁"을 채택했고, 편집 전쟁은 "이곳에서 일하는 사용자들의 전형적"이며, 몇 시간 후에야 그들은 그들이 다시 한번 '오류' 즉, 4명 중 1명만이 '오류'라고 인정한 매우 심각한 BLP 위반을 발견하였다.왜 E.M이 그렇게 힘들었는지 설명할 이론이 없지?그레고리는 그들의 '오류'와 다수의 BLP 위반을 보거나 신경써야 하는가?관리자가 제공한 차단 이유를 "모든 관리자가 모든 코멘트를 캐고 팩트 체크할 능력이 있는 것은 아니므로 사용자를 차단하도록 관리자를 속이는 사기성 ANI"라는 문구와 조정할 수 없는 것으로 인해 발생하는 인지 불협화음이 왜 발생하지 않는가.어쨌든, 헐드라나 나블레지는 스스로 말할 수 있을 거야.숀.호일랜드 -토크 11:17, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- Nableezy의 혐의를 입증하기 위해 EM Gregory의 편집 이력을 통해 사냥을 떠나는 사람은 아무도 없다.Nableezy가 편집 내용을 위반하는 BLP와 관련하여 진행 중인 문제를 입증하려면, 그들은 이 문제를 다른 사항과 함께 제기할 필요가 있다.현재 *여기서*는 둘 다 낡았고(이 경우 더 이상 문제가 존재하지 않음) 증거의 *모든*을 제시하지 않고 일방적으로 제시되어 왔다.수정 내용을 표시하지 않고 이미 수정된 한 편집에 대해 블록을 요청하는 것은 여러 단계로 볼 때 그저 불편할 뿐이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 11:28, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
- ANI 보고서, 특히 초기 4차 diff인 E.M을 다시 읽어 보십시오.그레고리가 '내가 저지른 실수...', '당신이 오류를 고친 것을 보니 좋군'을 시작하는 내 진술, 나블지의 진술, 그것이 사실인지 거짓인지, 그리고 그것이 명시적으로 서술한 행동불합치성에 대해, 왜 나블레지가 게시하지 않았는지에 대한 일련의 대체 설명의 크기를 고려하라.어제, 그리고 스웨덴의 연설자로서 Huldra가 왜 diff에 대해 언급할 지에 대해 생각해 보라.그런 다음 500명 이상의 적극적 관리자가 E.M.에 대한 결정을 내릴 수 있는 충분한 정보를 가지고 있는지 여부를 고려하십시오.그레고리의 정책 위반 여부 또는 "불만함 *여기서*"이 *모든 증거*를 제시하지 않고 일방적으로 제시되었는지 여부숀.호일랜드 -토크 11시 46분, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 왜냐하면 그것은 한 쪽이기 때문이다.누군가가 터무니없는 BLP 위반을 했다고 비난하고 같은 날 바로잡았다는 내용도 포함하지 않는 것은 터무니없이 일방적인 사실 발표다.만약 네가 그것을 이해하지 못한다면, 나는 더 이상 너에게 설명할 수 없어.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 11시 55분, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
- ANI 보고서, 특히 초기 4차 diff인 E.M을 다시 읽어 보십시오.그레고리가 '내가 저지른 실수...', '당신이 오류를 고친 것을 보니 좋군'을 시작하는 내 진술, 나블지의 진술, 그것이 사실인지 거짓인지, 그리고 그것이 명시적으로 서술한 행동불합치성에 대해, 왜 나블레지가 게시하지 않았는지에 대한 일련의 대체 설명의 크기를 고려하라.어제, 그리고 스웨덴의 연설자로서 Huldra가 왜 diff에 대해 언급할 지에 대해 생각해 보라.그런 다음 500명 이상의 적극적 관리자가 E.M.에 대한 결정을 내릴 수 있는 충분한 정보를 가지고 있는지 여부를 고려하십시오.그레고리의 정책 위반 여부 또는 "불만함 *여기서*"이 *모든 증거*를 제시하지 않고 일방적으로 제시되었는지 여부숀.호일랜드 -토크 11시 46분, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
음, 셜록, 내 문제는 WP의 명백한 위반이라는 점에서 편집에 있었다.편집자가 선의로 주장해 온 자료의 복원만으로 되돌리는 것을 BLP가 금지하는 것은 BLP 위반이다.그 BLP는 특히 재료를 수정하지 않고 재삽입해야 할 경우 반드시 논의하여 먼저 달성한 것에 대한 합의를 얻어야 한다고 요구한다.E.M. Gregorys 편집은 그 이후에 무슨 일이 일어났든 상관없이 그 금지령을 위반했다.E.M. 그레고리는 그 자료에 대해 논의하지 않았다(기사에 대한 대화 페이지는 공백으로 남아 있다), 그런 이유로 구체적인 편집은 정책 위반이었다.처음에 E.M.이 기사에 자료를 추가한 것은 말할 것도 없다.그레고리는 나에게 제거되기 전에 스스로에게.토들, 나발지 - 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC) 15:54[
- 엄밀히 따지면 그건 BLP 정책을 위반하는 것이겠지만, 소싱이 2분 후에 수정되었고 기사의 문구가 3시간 후에 수정되었기 때문에 - BLP 문제로 다시 그것을 제거하려고 생각하기도 전에 - 그리고 그 후에 그것은 정확히 지난 6일 동안 기사에 머물러 왔으며, 그것은 꼭 긴급한 사건이 아니다.만약 당신이 E.M. 그레고리가 BLP에서 금지되어야 한다고 생각한다면, 당신의 사건을 뒷받침하는 AN에 대해 토론하라.블록은 징벌적인 것이 아니기 때문에, 과거 BLP 위반으로 누군가를 차단하는 것은 징벌적인 것이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 16:24, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
이것도 닫아.행정관이 추측하건대, 나는 어떤 것에 속지 않았고, 그 사람이 그 언어의 옹호자라고 주장하는 것에서 그 사람이 그 언어의 옹호자라고 주장하는 것으로부터 그 언어가 바뀐 것을 볼 때, 여기에는 오해는 없다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 19:40, 2016 (UTC) 2016년 5월 10일 ( |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
@Boing! 제베디가 말했다.사건을 다시 열 수 있을까?여기서 완전히 오해가 있었던 것 같다.이 스레드는 심각한 인신공격, 그리고 관리자를 속여 다른 사용자를 차단하도록 시도하기 위해 사용자 나블지와 헐드라를 차단/금지하는 것에 관한 것이었다.
그는 "그들 자신이 6일 전 신뢰할 수 있는 정보원에 근거해 수정한 BLP 위반에 대해 아무도 행정 조치를 취하지 않을 것"이라고 말했다.문제를 정확하게 확인해줘서 고마워!사용자 나블지와 사용자 헐드라는 의도적으로 관리자 리키81682를 ''탈취 행동'으로 속이고 E.M. 그레고리를 차단/금지하려고 시도했다.그들은 6일 된 심각한 BLP 위반 편집을 보고했고, 그들은 의도적으로 E.M. 그레고리가 이미 몇 시간 후에 스스로 돌아갔으며 문제를 해결했다는 것을 배제했다.이는 인신공격일 뿐만 아니라 ANI페이지에서 (이스라엘을 지지하는) 사용자를 차단하기 위한 부정행위를 보여준다.마치 경찰서로 걸어 들어가 범죄를 저지르는 것과 같다.이것은 또한 관리자들에게는 부정직하고, 다른 사용자의 분쟁과 ANI를 해결하기 위해 이미 많은 시간과 노력을 자원하고 있는 관련 관리자들에게 무례하고 공정하지 못하다. 왜냐하면 이제 관리자들은 그것이 의도적으로 거짓이고 잘못된 것일 수 있기 때문에, 모든 청구들을 조사하는데 추가적인 시간을 보내야 하기 때문이다.딩. 케이스아트 02:51, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 그 편집을 수정해도 상관없다.더 큰 문제는 "왜 유대인에 대한 이러쿵저러쿵 증오에 대해 이야기하지 않느냐"는 말도 안 되는 토크 페이지 댓글이었다.그런 편집은 정말 옹호할 생각이야?샤브바즈 공격을 멈추지 않는다는 말도 안 되는 소리랑 두배로 해 WP:B 말고는 아무것도 안 보여아틀레그라운드 사고방식. -- 리키81682 (대화) 03:01, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 적어도 실제 행동은 그 두 가지 마지막 오해의 소지가 있는 주장과 아무 관련이 없다는 확증이 있어. 그리고 나는 그것을 리키81682에 따라 취하할 것이다.이번 공격에 대해, 역사는 공격이 지속될 경우에만 제기될 것이라는 것이 명백해졌다.CaseeArtTalk 04:16, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 실제 클로즈업 내용을 읽어 보십시오.그것은 일문일답이 아니었다. (A) 나는 토크 페이지 논평에 대해 걱정했다. (B) EM 그레고리는 그것을 어떤 것을 옹호하는 생활자에서 그것이 부정확하다는 것을 나타내는 옹호자들과의 연관성으로 바꾸었고, (C) 그 후 그의 기여의 총범위에 근거해 무시해야 할 "오류"라고 불렀다.그것은 분명히 부정확했고 그것은 가벼운 차이가 아니다.돌이킬 수 없는, 영어도 아닌 소스를 기반으로 한 BLP 공격이 계속되었을 것이라는 사실은 그것에 대해 좋게 생각하는 좋은 습관이 아니다.그리고 내가 보기에 한달에 걸친 주제 금지는 무엇이 무엇이고 무엇이 적절하지 않은지 알 수 있을 정도로 오랫동안 이곳에 있었던 편집자에게 절대적으로 비열하고 부적절한 토크 페이지 논평을 감안할 때 매우 관대하다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 05:41, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 설명 요청에
취소선이 추가됨.나는 또한 당신이 사용자들에게 스스로를 고칠 기회를 준 다음 참을성 있게 아주 오랫동안 기다린 것이 너무 좋았다고 생각한다.나는 EM 그레고리와 직접(직접) 대화한 적은 없지만, 그들의 토크 페이지에서 에 대해 논의할 수 있었다.- CaseeArt 06:28, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ - "회복이 없다면 영어도 아닌 출처를 바탕으로 한 BLP 공격이 계속되었을 것이라는 사실은 그것을 좋게 생각하는 좋은 습관이 아니다."블록은 징벌적 기억이 아니다.만약 당신이 진정으로 누군가를 옹호하고 있다면, 어떤 일이 일어났는지에 대해 차단되어야 한다, 그것은 처벌할 수 없다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(토크) 08:41, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 설명 요청에
- 실제 클로즈업 내용을 읽어 보십시오.그것은 일문일답이 아니었다. (A) 나는 토크 페이지 논평에 대해 걱정했다. (B) EM 그레고리는 그것을 어떤 것을 옹호하는 생활자에서 그것이 부정확하다는 것을 나타내는 옹호자들과의 연관성으로 바꾸었고, (C) 그 후 그의 기여의 총범위에 근거해 무시해야 할 "오류"라고 불렀다.그것은 분명히 부정확했고 그것은 가벼운 차이가 아니다.돌이킬 수 없는, 영어도 아닌 소스를 기반으로 한 BLP 공격이 계속되었을 것이라는 사실은 그것에 대해 좋게 생각하는 좋은 습관이 아니다.그리고 내가 보기에 한달에 걸친 주제 금지는 무엇이 무엇이고 무엇이 적절하지 않은지 알 수 있을 정도로 오랫동안 이곳에 있었던 편집자에게 절대적으로 비열하고 부적절한 토크 페이지 논평을 감안할 때 매우 관대하다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 05:41, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 좋아, 적어도 실제 행동은 그 두 가지 마지막 오해의 소지가 있는 주장과 아무 관련이 없다는 확증이 있어. 그리고 나는 그것을 리키81682에 따라 취하할 것이다.이번 공격에 대해, 역사는 공격이 지속될 경우에만 제기될 것이라는 것이 명백해졌다.CaseeArtTalk 04:16, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그가 그 편집을 수정해도 상관없다.더 큰 문제는 "왜 유대인에 대한 이러쿵저러쿵 증오에 대해 이야기하지 않느냐"는 말도 안 되는 토크 페이지 댓글이었다.그런 편집은 정말 옹호할 생각이야?샤브바즈 공격을 멈추지 않는다는 말도 안 되는 소리랑 두배로 해 WP:B 말고는 아무것도 안 보여아틀레그라운드 사고방식. -- 리키81682 (대화) 03:01, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
에코보이90
철수했다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 2016년 5월 9일(UTC) 19:35 [ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
편집한 에코보이90(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)이 장기적으로 다양한 혼란을 야기하는 것 같아 이를 차단(임시)할 수 있는가.페이노하 17Talk:30, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
사용자:Pocket이 법적 위협 만들기
법적 위협은 아마도 농담으로 만들어졌고, 그렇게 받아들여졌고, 정신과 말로 철회되었다.두 당사자는 모두 적극적으로 분열을 해제하고 있다.모든 사람이 그것에 대해 당황할 필요는 없다.DMACKs (대화) 2016년 5월 9일 19:18, (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
그들이 게시한 이미지가 되돌아간 후 Pockettee(대화/연락처)는 편집 요약에서 다음과 같이 말하면서 이 편집을 했다. 치스윅 채프에게 "이미지 스팸"에 대해 설명해주면 좋을 거야, 그렇지 않으면 성격 변형을 고소할 거야.
그리고 나서 Chiswick Chaps (대화·출고)는 법적 위협에 대해 그를 속였고 Pockety는 그것이 정말로 법적 위협이라는 것을 명확히 하면서 대응했다.Pockety가 남에 대해 계속 공격적인 태도를 보인 것 외에도, 이것은 명백한 법적 위협이다. - Aoidh (대화) 18:21, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 이 문제는 이 Aoidh라는 남자(이러한 조사들 중 하나를 시작하기만을 기다리며 나를 따라다니며, 사실은 상당히 유치한)가 그것에 대해 불평하기 전에 해결되었다.크리스윅 채프와 내가 화해했는데 왜 이런 글이 올라왔지?내 사진들 중 하나는 기사에서 공개 요약 게시판에 있는 스팸이라고 불렸는데, 여기선 처음이야.내가 직접 설명하지 않으면 '성격변형'으로 고소하겠다고 했다.그는 그것을 희극으로 받아들이고 나서 기사의 자막을 고쳤다.Over. Pocket this (talk) 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 완전히 끝난 건 아니지만 대부분 끝났어사용자:포켓이, 이 근처 사람들은 법적인 위협이 있을 때 겁을 내는 경향이 있는데, 그렇게 하지 않도록 정말 조심해야 해.그것은 종종 "이봐, 그러지 마"라는 식의 정책 위반이 아니라 "공식적으로 철회될 때까지의 방어" 같은 종류의 정책 위반으로 취급된다.치스윅 채프는 별로 신경 쓰지 않는 것 같고, 이것이 분노로 만들어진 어리석은 위협이라는 것을 이해하고, "인격 모독"이나 이와 비슷한 말을 하는 것이 너를 차단할 수 있다는 것을 이해한다면, 그래, 난 우리가 끝났다고 생각해.그러나 그 규칙을 가볍게 여기지 마라, 빨리 확대될 수 있기 때문이다.--Floquenbeam (대화) 18:56, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- (ec) 거래소가 이미 탈(脫)분산된 것을 고려하면, 이 판에 드라마를 휘젓는 것은 0점이다.따라 가십시오, 그러면 다른 캐릭터는 변형될 필요가 없습니다, --레이저 브레인 (대화) 18:58, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 나는 내가 고소하는 것이 정책에 반하는 것이라고 말한 것을 전혀 알지 못했다.나는 단지 그의 주의를 끌려고 했을 뿐이고, 그에게 최소한 "스팸"이라는 단어를 철회하거나 설명하게 하려고 했을 뿐이다.나는 그가 내가 가짜 사진을 만들었음을 암시하는 것이라고 생각했다.그는 그 후 자신의 토크 페이지에서 사과했고, 나는 받아들이고, 친구를 사귀었다.끝났다고 생각했다.나는 여기서 다시 고소하겠다고 협박하지 않을 것이다.Floquenbeam 설명 고마워, 그리고 이 Laser 브레인 끝내줘서 고마워. Pocket this (토크) 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
jayron32에서 걸려온 전화 괴롭힘
거부하다 |
---|
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오. |
Jayron32는 어젯밤 괴롭히는 전화를 했다.어떻게 그가 내 전화번호를 알아냈는지 모르겠어.그는 내가 감히 그의 편집 내용을 되돌릴 수 있다면 모든 위키백과 편집자들에게 나의 신상을 밝히겠다고 협박했다.이것에 대해 어떻게 해야 하는가?— 74.73.255.60 (대화) 23:34, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
|
- 또 다른 IP는 최근 (4월 15일경) 또 다른 행정관이 오프라인에서 자신을 "위협"한다고 비슷한 가짜 불만을 제기했다.그 요요로 뭔가 할 수 있는 일이 있을까, 아니면 위키피디아가 그에게 붙어 있는 것일까?【베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 00:06, 2016년 5월 9일(UTC)[
SST플라이어 및 AWB
더 이상의 관리자 조치가 필요하지 않다.이 문제는 RFD에서 해결되고 있다. -- 타빅스 21:43, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
SST플라이어(talk · bot)는 최근 AWB와 Bot 정책을 위반하여 수천 개의 논란적이고 불필요한 리디렉션을 만들기 시작했다.최근 기고문을 확인한 그는 x가 리디렉션 페이지로 이어지는 'x라는 이름의 사람들 목록'을 만들었다.WP별:AWBRULES : "논란적으로 편집하지 마십시오.적절한 장소에서 논란이 될 수 있는 변화에 대해 합의를 구하라."내가 마지막으로 확인한 바로는, 이런 성격의 페이지를 만들자는 의견 일치가 없다는 것인데, 사실 공감대는 정반대의 방향으로 흔들리는 것 같다.최근의 RFD 논의에 따르면, x redirect라는 이름의 사람들의 목록은 창조자가 자비롭게 G7에 태그를 붙이기 전에 삭제되는 방향으로 향하고 있었다. (이 배열을 RFD에 가져갈 것이지만, 이것들 중 수천 개로는 너무 실현 불가능하다.)내가 이 편집들에 대해 가지고 있는 또 다른 우려는 그것들이 만들어진 순전히 속도다.그는 2016년 5월 9일 11시 32분에 분당 50회의 편집 속도로 편집하고 있었다.이건 말도 안 돼.WP별:BOTPOL : "긴급하지 않은 작업을 하는 로봇은 약 10초마다 한 번씩 편집하는 반면, 더 긴급한 작업을 하는 로봇은 약 5초마다 한 번씩 편집하는 경우도 있다."이것은 분명히 긴급하지 않은 작업이기 때문에 SSTflyer의 편집은 약 6개의 편집/분으로 제한되어야 한다.분당 50개의 편집이 이 지침들을 훨씬 상회한다.이 모든 것을 염두에 두고, (1) 이러한 논란이 많은 리디렉션을 삭제해 달라는 요청과 2) 특정 업무가 WP를 통해 승인되지 않는 한 SST플라이어 사용을 금지해 달라는 요청 두 가지가 있다.BOTREQ. 감사합니다, -- 타빅스 02:06, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) WP는 다음과 같이 생각했다.MASCREATION은 기사와 범주에 한정되어 있었는가?이러한 리디렉션을 만들기 전에 나는 이미 AWB를 사용하여 10,000개 이상의 리디렉션을 만들었으며, 종종 분당 50개의 편집으로 만들었으며, 편집 속도나 리디렉션 생성에 대한 우려는 없었다.SST플라이어 02:12, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 나는 지금 모바일 기기를 사용하고 있지만 관리자가 Twinkle을 사용하여 모든 리디렉션을 신속하게 삭제할 수 있도록 내가 만든 리디렉션 목록을 컴파일하여 오늘 중으로 내 사용자 공간에 배치할 수 있을 것이다.이러한 리디렉션을 삭제하기로 합의하지 않는 한, 나는 아직 삭제 요청을 하고 싶지 않다.SST플라이어 02:18, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 그거 좋은 생각이야.적어도 우리가 가고 싶은 경로라면 RFD 지명을 실현시킬 수 있을 것이다. -- 타빅스(talk) 02:24, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 관련 리디렉션 목록:사용자:SSTflyer/hndis.나는 내가 RFD에서 (어떤) 활동을 하고 있다고 생각하고, 독자들에게 유용하다고 생각되는 경우에만 리디렉션을 만든다.이 경우, 만약 독자가 이름을 가진 사람들의 목록을 찾고자 한다면, 이러한 리디렉션은 검색 중에 독자를 도울 것이다.이러한 리디렉션 중 어느 것도 WP:R#DELETE에서 삭제 이유를 충족하지 않는다.이러한 리디렉션은 무해하며, 나는 그것들을 삭제하는 것이 그것들을 유지하는 것보다 더 많은 문제를 일으킬 것이라고 생각한다.나 역시 리디렉션을 만들기 전에 적극적으로 공감대를 구해야 한다고 생각하지 않는다.결국, 나는 기사가 공신력 가이드라인에 부합하는 한 기사를 만들기 위해 의견 일치를 추구할 필요가 없는데, 왜 리디렉션은 달라야 하는가?SST플라이어 03:46, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 그거 좋은 생각이야.적어도 우리가 가고 싶은 경로라면 RFD 지명을 실현시킬 수 있을 것이다. -- 타빅스(talk) 02:24, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- SST플라이어 - 그냥 경고 한 마디 - 이 사람이 지금 이 곳에서 가장 싫어하는 사람이라는 걸 모르기 때문에 그가 천 개 이상의 리디렉션을 만들었기 때문에...하지만 닐릭스가 그랬던 것처럼 빠른 속도로 만들어 낸다면 아마도 2인치만 늦추는 것이 좋을 것이다. –Davey2010Talk 04:19, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
닐릭스 이후론 아무도 이런 짓을 하다니.승인된 봇이 아닌 한 자동화된 프로세스에 의한 엄청난 수의 리디렉션의 대량 생성을 즉시 차단해야 한다.조나탕더 (대화) 06:46, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 닐릭스에 의해 만들어진 대부분의 리디렉션은 허튼소리지만 나는 실제로 WP:R#CRD 가이드라인을 알고 있다.그것은 주요한 차이점이다.SST플라이어 07:03, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 많은 리디렉션을 만들면(자동화 여부와 무관) 닐릭스 태그를 그들에게 던질 수 있다.문제는 누군가가 헨리 로페스를 찾을 때 (예를 들어) "헨리 로페스라는 사람의 목록"을 타이핑할 가능성이 얼마나 되는가 하는 것이다.루거츠Dick Laurent is dead 07:05, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 이러한 리디렉션은 특정인을 찾으려는 독자를 위한 것이 아니라 특정 이름을 가진 사람들의 목록이다.SST플라이어 12:48, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 위 SSTflyer는 "
나
는 이미 AWB를사용하여 10
,000개이상의 리디렉션을 만들었으며, 종종 분당 50개
의 편집작업
을 했다"고 말한다.대담해지는 것도 한 가지지만, 장점에 대한 중심적인 토론 없이 1만7528장의 쓸모없는 페이지를 만드는 것은 가장 도움이 되지 않는다.AWB 액세스 규칙이 심각하게 위반된 것으로 보이므로 액세스를 제거해야 한다.닐릭스 상황을 고려해 볼 때, 나는 광범위한 사전 토론 없이 어떤 것이든 대량으로 창조하고 있는 것으로 밝혀진 사람들은 무한정 주제를 금지해야 한다는 것을 선호할 것이다.지역사회는 17,528개의 무의미한 리디렉션의 장점을 분별 있게 논의할 수 없기 때문에, 이 조치는 편집 수를 늘리기를 원하는 누구에게나 선례를 남기는 기정사실이다.조누니크 (대화) 10:54, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[- 내가 말하는 것은 이 "xyz라는 이름의 사람들의 목록" 리디렉트들을 만들기 전에, 나는 이미 AWB를 사용하여 만 개 이상의 다른 리디렉트들을 만들었고, 이것이 부적절하다는 말을 들은 것은 이번이 처음이라는 것이다.나는 이 리디렉션들이 독자들에게 목적을 제공하기 때문에 "무점"이라고 생각하지 않는다.좋든 싫든 간에, 모호한 페이지는 위키피디아에서 다루는 주제들의 목록이다.리디렉션의 대량 생성에 반대하는 규칙은 없다.이러한 리디렉션 일괄 처리 방식은 일관된 형식을 따르므로, 커뮤니티에서 삭제 여부를 논의할 수 있다.만약 합의가 그렇게 결정된다면, 나는 WP:BRFA를 통과한 별도의 봇 계정으로 내 대량(즉, 25~50페이지 이상)의 재연결 크리에이션 크리에이션은 기꺼이 제한한다. 나의 재연결 크리에이션이 편집 카운트를 증가시키기 위한 것이라는 비난에 대해서는, 나는 높은 편집 카운트가 나에게 얼마나 이득이 되는지 이해할 수 없다.SST플라이어 12:48, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- @Legacypac: 위키백과의 17,528개 중 하나에 대한 (정확히 내 견해로는) 리디렉션 토론을 만들었다.Redirects_for_토론/Log/2016_May_10#List_of_people_name_헨리_로프스.@Johnuniq: AWB 액세스에 대한 당신의 논평은 옳은 것 같지만, 나는 단지 궁금할 뿐이다. 편집자의 편집 횟수를 늘리는 데 있어서 편집자의 이점은 무엇인가?in ictu oculi (talk) 11:33, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 숫자를 더 크게 한다는 목표 외에도, 프로젝트의 일부 영역은 편집 카운트가 더 높은 편집자에게 더 많은 신뢰를 주고 메인 스페이스의 편집 카운트가 더 높은 편집자에게 더 많은 신뢰를 준다.이제, 얼마나 많은 편집이 내용이고 얼마나 많은 편집이 리디렉션되는지, 그리고 언제/언제/혹은 자동 편집과 마찬가지로 당신이 가지고 있는 것이 무엇인지 보는 것은 사소한 일이다.그러나 편집국염은 편집국만 세는 한 문제가 되어 왔다.UltraExactZZ ~ 2016년 5월 10일 13:11, 10 (UTC) 했니[
나는 이 토론을 보지 못했고, 단지 그들 중 한 명을 우연히 발견했을 뿐이고, 만약 널리 적용된다면, 수천 개의 유용한 리디렉션으로 귀결될 것이라는 것이 정말 나쁜 생각이라고 생각했다.레거시pac (대화) 14:32, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
공항의 서류 가방에 폭탄 모양의 카메라가 들어 있다는 사실을 스캐너를 통과하기 전에 공개하지 않은 것은 실수다.완벽하게 받아들일 수 있는 기내 휴대품이라고 해도 상관없다. 다른 누군가가 시스템을 남용해 모두를 흥분하게 만들었다.물론, 이것은 어리석은 비유인데, 여기서의 골칫거리는 무의미하고 폭력보다는 무의미하게 청소하는 데 시간이 걸리는 일이기 때문이다. 하지만, 닐릭스 이후의 세계 대량 생산은 관심을 끌 것이다. 그리고, 정말로, 누구도 대량 생산에 대해 세밀히 조사받는 것에 대해 놀라지 말아야 한다.즉, (a) SST의 문제로 이것을 꺼낸 사람은 아무도 없는 것 같고, (b) 정리를 용이하게 하기 위해 전체 목록을 작성했으며, (c) 이미 대량 리디렉션 작성을 중단하고 대신 봇 요청을 통해 받아가겠다고 제안했다.그래서 주제 금지, AWB 접근 금지 등에 대한 이야기는 완전히 그리고 완전히 불필요해 보인다.송어, SST가 여기서 말하는 것을 고수하자는 제안, RfD에서 리디렉션의 장점에 대한 논쟁이 계속되었다. — 로도덴드리츠 \\ 15:44, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 이에 동의하다.SST가 이러한 리디렉션을 만들면서 선의로 작업하고 있었던 것은 (적어도 내게는) 꽤 분명해 보인다.그 문제가 그들의 관심을 끌었고 그들은 돕기 위해 모든 것을 했다.이런 것들이 만들어지는 속도대로 만들어지면 안 된다는 공감대가 형성돼 있는 겁니다.어쩌면 그들은 전혀 필요하지 않을 수도 있지만, 그것은 또 다른 논의 사항이다.이제 같은 사용자에 의해 대량생성이 다시 시작되면, 그것은 문제가 된다.루거츠 17:48, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 응, 나는 위의 코멘트에 동의해.이 문제는 봇 정책의 모순에서 비롯된 것으로 보인다.나중에 RFC를 가동해서해결하도록 할게.리디렉션은 RFD에서 처리되고 있다.SSTflyer가 향후 편집 속도를 늦추지 않고 AWB로 논란이 되는 리디렉션을 만들지 않는 한, 이 문제는 현재 필요한 추가적인 관리 조치 없이 해결될 수 있다고 생각한다.감사합니다, 여러분. -- 타빅스 21:40, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
사용자별 중단 편집:이노라프
이노랩(토크 · 기여)이 힙합 앨범 기사의 평점수를 바꾸고 있다.예를 들어, 사용자는 서프(Donnie Trump & The Social Experience 앨범)에서 "7/10"을 "{Rating 3.5 5}"로 대체했다[23].User talk에서 다른 편집자로부터 경고를 받았음에도 불구하고:inorap을 여러 번 [24] [25] [26], 사용자는 계속해서 이러한 작업을 반복한다 [27] [28].내 생각에 그것은 파괴적인 행동이고 가능한 한 빨리 중단되어야 한다. 153.204.104.88 (대화) 00:43, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나중에 이 문제를 여기에 가져오기 전에 사용자와 상의해 보십시오.고마워, --Rubish computer (HALP!): 베이스 떨어뜨렸어?) 14:32, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
사용자 대상:아우레부아르브론니
빨리 제정신인지 확인하고 싶네호주에서 정치 지망생인 제이슨 페일린스키의 전기 기사를 작성하기 위해 어디서부터 생겨난 계정이다.사용자 이름에 들어있는 "브론니"는 아마도 곧 전 MP가 될 브론윈 비숍으로 추정되며 페일린스키에 의해 그녀의 자리에서 물러났다.팔린스키의 글에 대한 평판은 다소 논쟁의 여지가 있다. 비록 그것이 중요한 것은 아니지만 말이다.내가 좀 더 걱정하는 것은 그 계정이 갑자기 서비스 가능한 기사를 터뜨리고, 그것을 몇 군데로 연결한 다음, AFD 토론에 나타나기 전까지 사라졌다는 것이다. 그래서 그들은 그것을 방어하고 그들의 소중한 시간을 낭비한 편집자들에게 어느 곳에서도 단 한 번의 새로운 오류도 없이 몇 번의 균열을 낼 수 있었다.아마도 그들은 RTFM에 불과했거나, 혹은 그들이 어떤 이유로든 사용하지 않는 다른 계정을 가지고 있었을 것이다.나는 명백한 양말 계정으로서 특히 사용자로서 차단하고 싶은 유혹을 느꼈다.AusLondonder도 분명히 여기서 비슷한 결론에 도달했지만, 나는 다소 주변적인 관계에 있어서 더 많은 검토를 위해 이것을 여기에 가져갈 것이다.란키베일 03:46, 2016년 5월 8일(UTC)
- 나는 이것이 WP라고 확신한다.난 브론윈 비숍에 대한 개인적인 애정은 없지만 이 계정은 WP:NOTHERE - "장기적 안건은 백과사전을 구축하는 것과 일관되지 않는다.실질적인 위키백과 관련 증거에 기초하여 편집권을 단지 비누박스나 다른 개인적 입장을 정당화하기 위해 원하는 것으로 보이는 사용자들", "디시저 및 게임 행위: 시스템 게임, 양말 및 기타 형태의 편집 부정행위", "자신 또는 사업에 대한 편협한 이기심 또는 홍보""티온 활동".템플리트 사용을 포함한 경험적 편집이 여기에 표시되며, 또한 여기서도 AusLondonder (대화) 02:52, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ ]에 대해 논의한다
프록시 IP 차단
IP는 Ponyo에 의해 대리인으로 차단되었다.(비관리자 폐쇄) --Cameron11598 (토론) 06:02, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
IP 103.18.58.198은 어떤 이유에서인지 내 사용자 페이지를 파손시켰고(아마도 이것과는 별개로 내가 어떤 행동을 했는지 전혀 알지 못한다), 곧이어 IP 185.2.137.220에서 더 많은 반달리즘을 얻었다.두 IP의 "Geolocate" 링크는 급진적으로 다른 결과를 낳는다: 103은 뉴질랜드 출신이고, 185는 영국 출신이지만, 분명히 같은 사람이다.프록시 서버로서 하나 또는 둘 다 차단할 수 있는 충분한 근거인가?그리고 우리는 보통 얼마나 오랫동안 그들을 차단할 것인가?예전에는 무한정 막았지만, (1) 프로시봇이 생기기 몇 년 전이었고, (2) 10년 전보다 무기한 블록에서 더 주저하는 경향이 있는 것으로 기억한다.내가 지금 이 시점에서 사소한 공공 기물 파손으로 제재를 받는 것이 아니라 대리인을 폐쇄시키려 하는 것이기 때문에 통보할 실질적인 의미가 없다.나이튼드 (대화) 15:33, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 103.18.58.1987은 VPS City로, 185.2.137.220.ipaddress.com은 gmchosting.com으로 DNS를 역방향으로 한다.대리 차단을 요구하기에 충분하다고 본다. --Yamla (대화) 15:38, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ 하라
사용자: Radyanskysoldativ
편집자는 속옷을 입기 위해 외설했다.(비관리자 폐쇄) GABHello! 21:17, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 온 것 같지 않다.이전에 차단된 적이 있으며, 아마도 무기한 기간이 필요할 것이다.--Ymblanter (대화) 16:04, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
야믈라별 학대
레인지블록으로 고정된 블록탈루. -- The Videwalker 19:55, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
사용자:야마는 꽤 오랫동안 나를 학대해 왔다.내 편집 작업을 되돌리고 내가 상대해 본 적이 있는 학대적이고 소유욕이 강한 괴물이야그러므로 나는 내 사용자 계정인 모아타세막말의 양말 인형 같은 존재가 절대 아니다.그는 위키백과도 아니고 다른 사람들에게도 믿을 수 없는 사람이다.또한 그의 행동은 매우 불규칙하고 공격적이 되었고 반반항력과 무관한 차단은 비위생적이었다.나는 너희 모두가 그를 위키백과에서 즉각 삭제한 것을 후회한다.— 196.134.119.214 (대화) 04:46, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- 이제 Wired의 헤드라인을 볼 수 있다.위키피디아는 비위생적인 차단죄 유죄. 지금까지 15건의 살모넬라균이 보고되었다.
(대화) 06:01, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- Moatassemakmal은 그의 차단에도 불구하고 계속 편집하고 있다.그의 위협은 실제로 나보다는 베어캣(토크 · 기여)에 대해 내려진 것이라는 점에 유의한다.베어캣은 실제로 내 반전을 제자리에 놔두는지 아니면 편집이 다시 도입되어야 하는지를 판단하기 위해 그의 방식에서 벗어나고 있다.모하타세막말은 유효한 편집과 잘못된 정보를 섞은 불행한 역사를 가지고 있어 베어캣의 노력은 비견할 만하다.내 표가 얼마 안 되더라도, 나는 사이트 금지를 강력히 지지한다.모하타세마말의 공공 기물 파손과 탈루 금지는 수년 전으로 거슬러 올라간다.나는 원래 차단 관리자도 아니라는 점에 유의하십시오. --Yamla (대화) 13:28, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- OP는 편집 패턴에서 비생산적이고 오염되지 않는 오랜 패턴을 가지고 있지만, 확실히 그들이 편집하는 일부 편집은 합법적인 것이지만, 다른 많은 편집은 그렇지 않다.합법적인 편집도 종종 형식상의 오류를 정리한 후에 다른 사람이 들어오도록 요구한다(나는 한때 오후 내내 모가 추가한 정보는 합법적이었지만 편집의 형식은 깨져버린 캐나다 지방 선거구 기사 전체의 구성원 테이블을 수리하느라 시간을 소비해야 했다).e 테이블 코딩) — 부정확하거나 비생산적인 편집으로, 만약 편집이 실행되지 않는다면, Mo는 왜 편집이 도움이 되지 않거나 부정확한지에 대한 설명을 무시하고, 고집스럽고 끈질기게 동일한 비생산적인 편집을 다시 재삽입하는 습관이 있다.
- 그리고 만약 그들이 편집하고자 하는 페이지가 어떤 이유로 페이지 보호를 받았다면, 적절한 편집 요청 프로세스를 따르는 대신 - 당신이 보고자 하는 정보를 변경하여, 편집 블록을 통과할 수 있는 누군가가 그것이 적절하다면 원하는 편집을 할 수 있도록 - 그들은 고집스럽고 끈질기게 편집 요청 프로세스를 오용할 것이다.o 그들이 실제로 원하는 특정한 편집의 세부사항을 제공하지 않고 페이지의 완전한 보호를 요구한다.그리고 그 요청이 불가피하게 몇 명의 관리자 중 한 명에게 거절당하게 되면, 그들은 주어진 설명을 무시하고, 2, 3일 후에 다시 똑같은 "보호하지 말아줘, 이유=내가 요청했으니까" 요청을 할 것이다.
- 그리고 나서, 이 작업이 너무 오랫동안 지속된 후, 그들은 사용자 대화 페이지로 보호 요청을 확장하기 시작했는데, 여전히 편집 요청 프로세스가 실제로 어떻게 작동하는지 그들이 들은 어떤 것도 수용하지 않았다.한 사례에서 실제 보호 관리자는 그 이후 관리 기능을 사임한 편집자였고, 따라서 페이지 보호에 대해 더 이상 할 수 있는 능력조차 없었다. 하지만 아무리 그 편집자가 그들이 더 이상 관리자가 아니고 아무것도 할 수 없다고 설명해도 모씨는 그저 그 응답을 무시하고 그들을 괴롭히곤 했다.2-3일 후에 다시 관리한다.그리고 위에서 이미 야믈라가 지적한 바와 같이, 나의 경우에 모는 실제로 괴롭힘을 전면적인 죽음의 위협으로 확대시켰다(또한 결과적으로는 덜 심각하지만 여전히 나의 지성과 성실성에 대한 미개한 모욕도 수없이 많다).
- 한 경우, 몇 달 후에 나는 마침내 모가 그들이 만들고자 하는 특정 편집의 구체적인 세부 사항을 제공하도록 했다. 그리고 편집이 합법적이기 때문에, 나는 그것을 기사에 적용했다.그러나 그때까지도 모씨는 기사에 만들고자 했던 몇 가지 다른 변화들 중에서 한 가지 세부사항만을 내게 주었을 뿐인데, 그래서 그들은 문제를 잠재우거나 적절한 편집 요청서의 형식을 실제로 배웠다는 것을 입증하는 대신, 그저 똑같은 "보호하지 않는 부탁, 내가 부탁했기 때문에" 요구로 나를 다시 괴롭히기 시작했다.원하는 추가 변경사항을 실제로 지정하지 않고 여전히 동일한 페이지에 관련된다.
- 이것은 훌륭한 지위에서 기고자로 대접받을 자격이 있는 사람의 행동이 아니다. 이것은 시스템 금지를 매우 많이 획득한 비생산적이고 멋지지 않은 편집자의 행동이다.그러므로 "야마라의 남용"은 상황을 정확하게 요약한 것이 아니다.야믈라가 상황에 대응하여 적절하게 행동하고, OP는 단지 그들 자신의 행동에 대한 정당한 결과를 회피하려고 하고 있다.베어캣(토크) 15:16, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
사용자에 의한 인신공격:80.245.197.109 on Talk:신시사이저
그 불평은 아무런 장점이 없고, 기각된다.그러나 고소장을 올린 편집장은 각종 편집에 지장을 주는 경고가 나온다.제임스BWatson" (대화) 11:17, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
기사 신디사이저의 토크 페이지에는 IP 사용자 80.245.195.197.109(또는 이와 유사한 주소)가 영문법 문제에 대한 상세한 설명 문제를 비밀리에 대신하여 1년 전부터 인신공격을 하고 있다.특정 IP 사용자에 의한 이러한 장기적 인신공격은 어떻게 막을 것인가?몇 가지 조언이나 코멘트를 제안해 주었으면 좋았을 텐데. --클러스터노트(토크) 08:03, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견)불평하고 있는 사용자에게 통지하는 것은 관습적으로, 아니, 의무적으로(그리고 정당한 이유 때문에)하는 것이다.나는 너를 위해 그렇게 했다.또한 위반행위에 대한 많은 링크들을 포함하는 것이 관습이며 나는 그것들의 현저한 부족에 주목한다.게다가, 당신이 언급하는 토크 페이지를 대충 훑어본다고 해서, 1년 전의 인신공격 패턴은 말할 것도 없고, 어떠한 인신공격도 밝혀내지 못한다.이 ANI-요청을 다시 생각해보시길 제안합니다 내 생각에 이건 아무데도, 아주, 아주, 아주 빠르게 진행되고 있으니까클레우스케 (대화) 09:43, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 클러스터링노트의 영어가 이해할 수 없는 곳에 있기 때문에, 예를 들어, "영어 문법 문제에 대한 상세한 설명의 문제를 대체"하는 것은 무엇을 의미하는지 완전히 명확하지 않다.그러나 다음과 같은 두 가지 사실은 분명하다: (1) 클러스터 노트는 토크에서 인신공격의 IP 편집자를 고발한다.신디사이저 페이지, (2) 그는 IP 편집자가 그 페이지에서 "은밀하게" 어떤 일을 했다고 주장한다.나는 2003년 초부터 그 페이지에 대한 모든 IP 편집을 살펴봤고, 인신공격으로 합리적으로 간주될 수 있는 어떤 징후도 없고, 거기서 "비밀"이라고 간주될 수 있는 어떤 것도 없었다.그러나, 그 페이지뿐만 아니라, Clusternote의 토크 페이지와 같은 다른 장소에서의 관련 편집을 보면, Clusternote는 다음과 같은 것을 포함하되 이에 제한되지 않는 등, 오랫동안 파행적 편집의 역사를 가지고 있음을 알 수 있다: 영어가 아닌 것으로 기사를 완벽하게 대체하는 것, 그리고 어떤 이유로든 refef.원어민 영어 사용자들로부터 자신이 그렇게 했다는 정보를 받는 것을 받아들이는 것; 특정 기사에 소유권 태도를 보이는 것; 전쟁 편집; 의견 불일치가 있을 때 다른 편집자들과 협력적으로 행동하는 것을 거부 또는 불가능; 다른 편집자들에 대한 근거 없는 비난하기; (이 보고서는 그 대표적인 예다.)클러스터 노트, 지금까지 수행했던 모든 종류의 파괴적 편집을 계속 수행한다면, 머지않아 편집이 차단된 자신을 발견할 수 있다."제임스"라는 가명을 사용하는 편집자BWatson" (대화) 11:17, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
아치온 데 운 글로벌 시솝 엔 나.위키백과
(비관리자 폐쇄) ANI 문제가 아니다.OP는 메타위키와 그를 도울 수 있는 스테워즈로 언급된다.클루스케(토크) 15:12, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕하세요난 이 사건에 참여할 수 있는 글로벌 시솝을 찾고 있어. 스페인어로 말해야 해. 모든 불만은 스페인어로 되어 있으니까.고마워요.
위반자: {{nah:user:Marrovi}}}
프로이텍트:아니:위키피디아(few sysops;사실 나 혼자)
프리젠토 두스 데넌시야스 파라 큐가 재결합도 엘 카소 마로비:
1.-Mi 콘트라에 있는 Calumnia y agresion.
Después de un proceso desgastante de revisiones y correcciones en Mantenimiento artículos de Marrovi debido a esta resolución donde ha quedado demostrado y confirmado por las actitudes del mismo usuario Marrovi que mi primer comentario CONSENSO PARA EL BORRADO DE DATOS era acertado, donde se describió su manera de proceder y trabajar en el pasado yque lo ha 반복해서 durante esese processo de mantenimiento que aun continuua.에스데키르, si asu en el pasado y continuuua sieno ahora, en el futuro no podemos esperar que cambie.계속하기엔 너무 안좋다. discusion a la nah.위키백과, 르 페디 아메블멘테 큐 타차라 수스 코마타리오스 엥 콘트라 데 미, 로 쿠알 세 조카가 하서.
Las agresiones y acusaciones en mi contra se dieron desde Consulta de borrado por quistacion:Comarca de Teotlalpan, Donde se puede ver tanto mi actacion como la de el.Ahi claramente se ece en lugar de por qua devia por qua deviores el articulo, busco rescarlo con trucos y con intericos diicieno "por donde vien los ataques ote o no. un o suen. o sueno suen. antien. o. o. un un quo sueno so so.Durante la mischa consulta también senalo esto "el acusante parece ser que ha encaprichado en borarar el al articulo... tal vez estoy malo veo muy ne ne. Esto es es lo lo en posgrado cono como guerra sukia", ademas en la pargina de discusion [31] me acusaba de contar con el le lel lel lel leanininnao, lo concounta de borrado.
ante tales calumnias yo le pedi le moderacion aqui, lo que el tomo una anamaza, y lo ha diffundido as tomando la postura de victima.
Después de la decision del borrado de Teotlalpan y demostr un mal uso y entendimiento de este terrmino, corregir ortas pargino, pargina.우수아리오 마로비는 나에게 보고하라고 강요한다. ante el bibliotecario taichi acusándome de "borar informacion a mi intojo," nuevamente es es una calumnia de su parte contra mi.
Lo anterior me llevó a establecer el precedente y desenmascarar a Marrovi, CONSENSO DEL BORRADO DE DATOS lo que algunos vieron como un foreo era, y es en realidad un marco referencial, donde queda establecido que se puede esperar de él, y como arriba lo digo, él sigue demostrando y confirmando todo lo dicho ahí.En la lectura cuidadosa de mi comentario cualquiera podrá ver que no expreso ni odio ni resentimiento como trata de achacármelo Marrovi, muy por el contrario, él si muestra resentimiento y coraje contra mí en sus comentarios aquí me llama chismoso, aquí dice: lo él no es capaz de dar respeto, y todavía lo exije como si tiviera una larga cola que le pisen y ahora lo hace haciendo uso de su poder.y aqui 주사위: Eso para mi me leno de coraje y rabia.ante story of anensas ya procediya una denuncia, sin maught, decido hablar con él pedarle ceenfoque enfoque enfoque, le digo que no tengo engo encentarlo, lo.
Después de la inprecion de varios bibliotecarriors para encauzarlo, comienza a passociones de contra, hablando de circo y teatro y uso de influencias.안테 라 엑시겐시아 알 아페고 데 라스 노르마 데 에티케타 타키에타 타키에타오무자리오스, 우니카멘테 로스 드 라스 페르소나스 콘 카고 큐 로 아메나자론 콘 데넌샤를로 엔 엘 타블론, 엔 미 카소, 누카 데조 세냐르메 코모 엔 수 콘트라(Una coma campa en su contra)."los argentos de ataque que realizzo unuario en muchiculos que edité, este tipo de leeno hacio mi persona, busco to do lovable in Wikipedia para para lecer lega de ar ar lea de ar ar ar ar ar lea de ara de ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar ar
Por la naturaleza del trabajo de mantenimiento, es necesario señalar los errores, cosa que no le agrada en lo personal a Marrovi, este proceso él lo considera como “hacer leña del árbol caído”, él siente que quienes intervenimos lo hacemos con “saña, con burla, con la intención de desprestigiarlo”.en su desperacion se ha enfocusado en arrastrarme trayendo la discusion a la nah.위키피디아 e entando probidarme, continuando con signalamientos y acusaciones, lo cual you no toy a suguir auguantando.
El usuario Marrovi También argata contra mi que "ataco a su familia".Aquí el asunto es que como también se comprobó en el proceso de revisión de sus contribuciones, Marrovi usó la Wikipedia para [promocionarse], como obvia consecuencia, era necesario mencionar aspectos acerca de la persona (no del wikipedista) y corregir la interpretación que él mismo hacia de sus antepasados, que de hecho sigue insistiendo hasta el momento, apecifando que tiene una 관련 인플루언시아 sefardi (judia) en su region y en su familia, otheros como costumbres, el habla, la gastoromia, cuando en es es del mestiza.
Slicto que detengan al usuario en su carrera de calumnias en mi contra, quee de acusarme por un processo es resulto de su propriceder yys consecuencias tien tien.시엔토는 에스타스 알투라스 에스 네세리아야 디스쿨파 드 파르테를 기다린다.수 파기나 데 우사리오에 있는 라 베즈 데베 타타르 로스 콤멘타리오스 퀘오.
2.- Abuso de los recursos de Wikimedia y manifulacion de las reglas de Wikipedia.
퀘다 콤프로바도 pora las wikis en espaignol, alleman, alioto, catalan y portugués 퀘 마로비 las utuitizado para en un de leas leglas en en ukoquea en actividinidinadinadamentine.라 시타시온 콘 라 나흐위키백과 no es muy diferente.
Tres acciones queue merecen sancion:
2.1.- 보라도 intencional de Parginas de discusion para ocultar informacion, acciones que deben deser revertidas pes infecta la secuencia de las mischas.그래, es.위키피디아 lo habia hecho ye le desprovico esas accessiones no eran permitids y en caso de continuar seria sancionado.Aunn mantiene borrado parte de su página de discusion (ano 2013) como puede poete poete qui.
2.2.- Manipulación 드 votaciones.자 무늬의 에스 hizo mismo.위키 피디아(29-SEPT-2012)y알 comprobarse que utilizó“títeres”구 유고 슬라비아의 화폐 단위 favorecer sudecisión,fue bloqueado.앙-얘랑은 일.위키 피디아 quisocambiar 엘 sistema 드 escritura establecido por consenso 시스템 2007년(acepto 엘 cual participó는 yenregañadientes)esperó pacientemente가 없tener oposición 구 유고 슬라비아의 화폐 단위 imponer 고스트 라이더“이상적인 드 escritura”;falta de participantes 무늬의 위키 피디아 recurrióla 빨간 사회 페이스북donde lopuso votación, es decir, que 명동 redes socialesdecidan la.Spolíticas 드 위키 피디아.에스토. 미국이 없fue más 께 불행engaño pues 명동 페르소나(페이스북이 아들 especialistas(tema, 아들gente ordinaria yninguno 드 ellos realidad colabora 라 nah.위키백과신 추기경은 금수 조치는consiguió otras,personas que votaran dossí 앙-얘랑은 일 ahora.위키 백과, 패러 establecer suopinión,teniendovoto 시스템 콘트라다.Él 주사위 que esto fue democrático… ¿una votación 드 cuatro 페르소나 paraun 포털 quetiene más 드cien miembros?¿cuál 에스 데 라 decisión 드esa mayoría?¿por qué이 없votaron?Lomás decepcionante 드 esta situación 에스 데 que 라 resolución 니 siquiera 라 están ejecutando,(estandarizaciónortográfica que pretendían이 없은 편지 ve으로ningún lado, nadie 라 está realizando, claramente se ven tres sistemas 드 escritura diferente.
3.2.- Acusaciones,calumnias는 yagresiones cross-wiki.
Apesar 드 estarbloqueado 앙 에스.위키 피디아 y-얘랑은 일.위키 백과, hautilizado espacios 드 discusión 드 otros usuarios 시스템이 proyectos para difamarquienes intervinieron 라 corrección 드 suserrores:.앙 en.wikipedia página 드 usuario Maunus, 앙.위키 피디아 página(usuario 살바도르 alc, 시스템 wikimedia las acusaciones, aún manera 드 catarsis 라 página 드 discusión 드 usuario 노비타 dichotodo lo께 하 peormás fuertes 라 página 드 usuario 마르코 Aurelio 이 개새끼.
에스토. 에스 데 sólo un ejemplo 드 toda 한 serie 드 irregularidades 라 nah.위키 백과,donde todos이 건초 revisiones 붙coordinación escribir 그럼 께quieran는 ycomoquieran pueden.에스떼necesitaurgentemente 한 강의실 pues 레오나르도 알mundo 한imagen mala 드 위키 미디어, ¿wikimedia sirve 드 instrumento para un 솔로 usuario(Marrovi)포털?¿cómo 에스 que 위키 미디어permite queexista 한 위키 피디아 10시 조종할 수 있는?
Mi slicutud es cue un Global sysop o Steward revision es este caso y si con mi 비전, ejercer un bloquee al usuario Marrovi.
살루도스. --Akapochtli (대화) 12:52, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- 그럴 것 같지 않다.
대부분의 링크가 스페인 WP에 있기 때문에, 불평을 들어봐야 할 부분이다. 13:14, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ 하라
클루스케는 나후아틀 위키피디아(나후아틀)와 연결고리를 제공하려 하고 있었다.데이비드 비둘프 (대화) 15:28, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
Ian.thomson의 괴롭힘, 거짓말, 협박
비쇼넨이 경고한 OP.--Bb23 (대화) 11:42, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
나는 솔로몬의 성경에 가치 있고 유익한 내용을 덧붙였고, 그보다 훨씬 덜한 것은 리틀 니키라는 글이었다.사람들이 위키피디아에 추가하는 대부분의 추가사항들처럼, 나는 그러한 기여를 하는 출처를 포함하지 않았다.사용자 Ian.thompson은 내가 솔로몬의 성경에 기여한 것 중 상당 부분을 삭제했는데(특히 코란에서 인용한 것) 그 자체는 어떤 규칙도 위반하지 않지만, 리틀 니키에게 위키리스트로 나를 위키리스트로 보내서, 그 글에 대한 나의 가장 중요한 기여를 삭제했고, 그렇게 하는 동안 편집 요약에 거짓을 기재했다[32](t).그의 진실은 오직 리틀 니키와 솔로몬 성경의 영어 번역만이 "플래스크"라는 단어를 이런 목적을 위해 사용한다는 것이다. 다른 사람은 그렇게 하지 않는다.)위키스토킹 괴롭힘은 물론 규칙을 어기는 것이지만, 그것은 Ian.thomson의 나쁜 행동의 시작에 불과했다.
내가 편집 요약에서 이안의 위키스토킹 행동을 언급한 뒤 이안은 내 토크 페이지에 위키스토킹을 지적하는 것은 '고발'이며 '선성실천정책'을 위반하는 것이라고 거짓말을 했다.[33] 위키스토킹은 물론 동기가 아닌 행동이기 때문에 AGF는 그것과 아무 관련이 없으며, 이안은 물론 그것을 알고 있다.
내 토크 페이지에 여러 번 이안은 위키백과의 5번째 기둥이나 모든 규칙을 무시하는 것에 대한 언급은 일부러 생략하면서 다양한 위키백과 정책을 언급함으로써 반쪽 진실을 게재했다.이안이 삭제한 솔로몬의 성경에 대한 나의 편집은 주요한 개선사항이었고, 일차적인 출처를 조사함으로써 검증될 수 있었기 때문에 그것은 분명히 IAR이 적용되는 경우다.중요한 내용을 삭제하는 것과 내용이 규칙을 위반한다고 말하는 거짓말은 별개다.그러나 이것은 이안의 다른 행동에 비해 상대적으로 경미한 공격이다.
나는 '초대 필요'라는 꼬리표를 붙여 리틀니키에 대한 나의 편집을 복원하고, 이안이 솔로몬의 성서에서 삭제한 코란의 인용구를 복원하는 것을 자제함으로써 이안을 달래려 했지만, 출처 없이 솔로몬의 성경에 다른 귀중한 정보를 추가했기 때문에, 이안이 m에 대한 매우 민감한 지배 의식을 침해했기 때문이다[34].e, 그래서 그는 내가 추가한 새롭고 중요한 정보를 삭제하고, 앞에서 덧붙인 다른 중요한 정보(이름, 솔로몬의 성경에 근거한 코란의 구절의 언급)를 삭제함으로써 자신의 우세를 공격적으로 주장하였다(som과 함께).내가 추가하지 않은 다른 텍스트)는 이안의 동기가 개인적인 것이라는 어떤 합리적인 의심의 여지없이 증명한다.
하지만 그 귀중한 기여들을 모두 삭제한다고 해도 이안의 지배 의식을 만족시키기에 충분하지 않았다. 그는 내 토크 페이지에서 나를 막겠다고 협박하며 그 뒤를 따랐다.[36] 그는 만일 내가 출처 없이 계속 콘텐츠를 추가한다면, 나는 차단될 것이라고 말했다.그것은 비록 비협조적인 기여를 하는 것이 차단할 수 있는 근거의 하나가 아니고, 대부분의 편집자들이 하는 일이라는 사실에도 불구하고, 그리고 관리자로서 이안은 그 사실을 잘 알고 있어야 하기 때문에 위키피디아의 차단 정책에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있는 것이다.게다가, 이안은 나와의 내용 분쟁에 연루되어 있기 때문에, 어쨌든 그가 나를 차단하는 것은 이해충돌일 것이다- 그가 고의로 빠뜨린 사실.따라서 이안은 내가 위키피디아의 정책에 대해 완전히 무지하며, 그가 말한 정책에 대해 내게 말하는 것은 무엇이든 믿을 것이라는 잘못된 가정 하에 일하고 있다.이안이 차단 정책에 대해 거짓말을 하고 있고, 그런 거짓말을 바탕으로 사용자를 차단하겠다고 협박하는 행정관이라는 것은 그가 요약해서 탈(脫)소화해야 한다는 뜻이다.아이러니는 이안이 하는 것처럼 사람을 괴롭히는 것 자체가 막히는 근거라는 것이다.
통상적으로 나는 이안의 거짓말에 대해 전형적인 분쟁 해결 과정에 따라 내 토크 페이지에서 그와 일대일로 대화함으로써 대응하겠지만, 그가 거짓된 핑계로 나를 차단하겠다고 협박했다는 사실은 단순히 내가 위키피디아에 귀중한 정보를 기고했다는 이유만으로 그가 나를 차단하기 위해 어떤 핑계를 쓸지 모른다는 것을 의미하기 때문에 나는 그가 나를 차단하기 위해 무엇을 쓸지 모른다는 것을 의미하기 때문에 나는 반드시 그렇게 해야 한다.직접 참여하기 전에 먼저 여기에 그의 행동을 보고하는 것이 안전하다.
나는 또한 이안의 토크 페이지에서 그가 학자들에 대해 약간의 적대감을 가지고 있다는 것을 알아차렸다. ("위키피디아에서는 너나 내가 자격이 있는 학자가 되는 것을 신경쓰지 않는다") 그리고 내 사용자 이름은 내가 한 사람이라는 것을 분명히 하기 때문에, 이안이 나에 대해 예외적으로 적대감을 갖는 것을 고려할 수 있다.나는 또한 이안의 사용자 페이지에서 그가 다른 사용자들을 집요하게 괴롭히는 '위키 오소리'라고 부르는 것을 보았다. 그래서 그는 분명히 그의 미개한 괴롭힘 행위를 자랑의 표시로 달고 있다.위키 오소리라고 식별하는 편집자는 관리자가 감시해야 하며, 따라서 관리자는 위키 오소리 발생 시 자신의 잘못된 행동에 개입할 수 있다.
일부 종교학자 (대화) 00:42, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
@Ian.thomson: {{subst:ANI-Notice}}}템플릿.나는 너를 위해 그렇게 했다 --Cameron11598 (Convers) 00:56, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)- 세이브 페이지를 클릭하기 직전인 것 같네. --Cameron11598 (토론) 00:58, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견)읽어보고 있어, 이안관리자인 Thomson은 WP와 제휴했다.블록체인은 "블록이 위키피디아의 긴급하거나 지속적인 손상과 혼란을 방지하거나 현재와 같은 파괴적 행동의 지속을 저지해야 한다"고 말한다. 경고 후 반복적으로 비소싱된 정보를 추가하는 것은 파괴적인 것으로 간주될 수 있다(개인적으로 나는 특히 경고 후 이러한 방식으로 본다).또한 WP에 따라 소스를 제공해야 한다.프로밋.WP에 관한 한:IAR 당신이 위키피디아를 향상시키는 한 그것은 오랫동안이다.나는 정보가 얼마나 비지원적이고 검증되지 않은 것이 기사를 개선시키고 있는지 모르겠다.그리고 제5기둥은 위키백과 정책에 대해 "그들의 내용과 해석은 시간이 지남에 따라 진화할 수 있다"고 말한다. 그것은 이안의 해석일 수도 있다.또한 그가 거짓말을 했다고 비난하는 것은 분명히 예의 바르지 않거나 구프 신앙을 가정하는 것도 아니다.Wikistalking에 대해 말하자면, 관리자나 다른 사용자가 다른 기고자에 의해 야기된 문제를 페이지에서 볼 때, 그들은 그 기고자들을 검토하고 동일한 문제를 확인하는 것은 그리 드문 일이 아니다.wp:boomerang은 존재한다. --Cameron11598 (토론) 01:11, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 거짓말이라는 단어를 포기함으로써 당신의 선의를 증명하기 시작할 것이다.그렇지 않으면 우리는 당신이 큰 실수를 했다고 결론짓고 싶을지도 모른다.디프(diff)를 연결하고 '데시소프(desysop)'나 IAR처럼 위키자르곤을 사용하는 40개 편집자의 사용자도 좀 이례적이다.아크로테리온 (대화) 01:18, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- (갈등 편집) @일부 종교학자:새로 온 편집장님이시죠.당신은 또한 위키피디아에 집중하는 것이 한 가지뿐인 것 같다.이안은 매우 노련한 편집자다.당신은 그가 위키백과 정책을 따르도록 하기 위해서만 온갖 사악한 동기와 행동을 하고 있다고 비난하고 있는데, 그 중 하나는 기사에 비협조적인 자료를 추가하지 않는 것이다.네가 옳은지 아닌지는 중요하지 않다.만약 당신이 당신의 자료를 지지할 믿을 만한 출처를 가지고 있지 않다면 - 그리고 CN 태그를 넣는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다 - 그것을 추가하지 마라.이쯤 되면 파행적인 편집과 태도에 막히지 않은 게 천만다행이다.하지만 네가 계속 고집한다면, 그건 당연한 내기가 될 거야.그런데, 위키 오소리란 당신이 생각하는 것을 전혀 의미하지 않는다.유머러스한 용어로 불길한 함의가 없다.--Bb23 (대화) 01:19, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- (분쟁 편집 × 3) 내가 본 사건 순서는 다음과 같다.
- 여기서 OP는 솔로몬의 성경에 기초하는 독창적인 연구를 일차적으로 추가했다.나는 원래 그것을 독창적인 연구라고 딱지를 붙이고 불필요한 인용은 삭제했다.흔치 않은 일이지만, 나는 사이트 정책에 대한 인식 부족에 의해 야기된 유사한 문제들이 발생했는지 확인하기 위해 다른 기고들을 검토했다; 각각의 개별적인 행동을 "도난"하는 것이 아니라, 이 새로운 사용자 이후에 정리하고 그들의 편집이 왜 정리되었는지 설명하기 위해서.그 결과, 나는...라는 것을 알게 되었다.
- 여기서 OP는 리틀 니키에게 비협조적인 주장을 추가했다.그 주장은 근거가 없을 뿐만 아니라, 악마를 병에 가두려는 발상이 다양한 문화권에서 나타난다.더욱이 솔로몬의 성경은 분명히 솔로몬에 의해 쓰여지지 않았고 아무런 역사도 담겨 있지 않았지만, 소설로 의도된 것은 아니었다.관련 사이트 정책과 가이드라인을 설명하는 메모를 남기고 그 이유를 설명하는 편집 요약본과 함께 되돌렸다.
- OP의 반응은 사이트 가이드라인에 대한 나의 다소 노골적인 설명에도 불구하고 되돌리는 것을 "해적"이라고 부르는 것이었다.나는 그것과 쿠란어 인용문을 다시 삭제하여, 편집 요약과 그의 토크 페이지의 메모에 모두 출처가 필요하다고 설명하였다.
- 그는 나중에 리틀 니키에서 그가 WP:V가 아닌 어떻게든 그가 충족시켜야 할 필요가 있는 것처럼, 인용에 필요한 꼬리표를 붙여서 그 주장을 다시 복원시켰다.이 사용자가 굳이 출처를 인용하려고 애쓸 기미가 전혀 보이지 않는 것을 보고, 나는 다시 한번 리틀 니키의 비협조적인 주장과 솔로몬의 성약서 원본 연구까지 삭제하고, 템플리트된 경고를 남겼다.
- 여기서 OP의 주장에 대해서는, "사람들이 위키백과에 추가하는 대부분의 추가사항과 마찬가지로, 나는 그러한 기여가 있는 출처를 포함하지 않았다"는 주장은 WP:V와 WP에 반한다.같은 논리로, 우리는 많은 공공 기물 파손과 광고를 얻는다. 그래서 WP:VAND 및 WP:NOTPROMO는 정책이 아니어야 한다.WP:IAR은 완전무결한 것이 아니다.사용자 게시물이 WP:다른 곳에서 그의 행동이 WP:V에 실패한 것과 마찬가지로 AGF도 마찬가지다.나는 WP를 요구하지 않을 것이다.부메랑 (그의 주장은 다소 WP적이었지만:조숙하다), 하지만 누군가는 적어도 그 두 가지 정책을 그의 머리에 주입할 필요가 있다.
- 또한 @일부 종교학자: 차단정책에는 "정책이나 가이드라인을 위반하는 것"이 "교란" 섹션 아래에 나열되어 있다.너 스스로 인정하건대, 너는 반복적으로 WP:V를 위반했다.동일한 비소싱 콘텐츠를 반복적으로 추가하는 임시 블록이 발생한다.이안.thomson (대화) 01:33, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:일부 종교학자는 WP를 오해한다.HOUND. 우려되는 원인을 볼 경우 사용자의 편집 내용을 추적하는 것이 완벽히 적절하다. "사용자 기여" 버튼은 이유가 있다.그리고 그들은 WP를 완전히 오해한다.위에서 지적한 바와 같이 IAR.Ian Thomson은 이들에 대해 인내심을 가지고 그들에게 수작업으로 만든 정보, 템플리트가 아닌 수작업으로 만든 정보 등 사이트 정책과 관행에 대한 상세한 정보를 제공했고 감사의 표시로, 그들은 "거짓말"과 다른 어리석음에 대한 비난을 퍼붓는다.나는 사용자 페이지에 이런 일이 더 있으면 차단하겠다고 경고해 왔다.이제 이 실이 닫힐 수 있을 것 같아.PS, 보고서 "정보적이고 중립적인 제목" btw.비쇼넨은 10:07, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)을 이야기한다.
RFA?
"사용자 차단, 페이지 삭제 SQLQuery me! 05:44, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)"[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕, 음, 누군가 위키피디아를 볼 수 있어:요청_for_adminship/Davey2010 .....나는 그 사람이 누구인지 전혀 모르고 아무런 대답도 하지 않았다(내가 물어본 적도 없다) .., 그들이 트롤링하는 것인지, 무엇을 하는 것인지 확실하지 않다...고맙다Talk, –Davey2010 05:35, 2016년 5월 12일 (
- Davey2010 - 나도 방금 그걸 알아챘어.CSD로 태그하고 있어. ~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)05:39, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
원본에 표시되지 않음
오슈와 옴니 불꽃이 고친 문제 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 소식통인 http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27719/Interview_Markus_Notch_Persson_Talks_Making_Minecraft.php과 https://minecraft.net/en/에 따르면, "마커스 "노치" 페르손은 King.com과 이후 j앨범에서 일하는 동안 독립 프로젝트로 이 게임을 개발하기 시작했다고 한다."출처에 따라 표시하지 마십시오. 이 주장을 뒷받침하는 출처를 제공하거나 수정하십시오.나는 여기에 글을 올린다 왜냐하면 나는 오래전에 대답되지 않은 토크 페이지에 의견을 냈기 때문이다.— 80.246.138.11 (대화) 18:54, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
완료(디프)~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)20:33, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 그가 King.com과 이후 j앨범에서 작업할 때 개발했던 부분만 삭제해도 출처에 없는 부분이라도 수정하거나 다른 출처를 제공하십시오.— 80.246.136.138 (대화) 23:48, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
게임을 개별적으로 시작했다는 의미를 삭제했다(차이프 참조).~오슈와~(talk) (contribs)00:39, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- 그가 King.com과 이후 j앨범에서 작업할 때 개발했던 부분만 삭제해도 출처에 없는 부분이라도 수정하거나 다른 출처를 제공하십시오.— 80.246.136.138 (대화) 23:48, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 이 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
사용자:159.159.71은 일종의 살인 미션을 띠고 있다.
나는 아이리스센트가 이 행성에 없다는 것을 잘 알고 있다.따라서 우리 모두는 안도의 한숨을 쉴 수 있다.--Bb23 (대화) 12:23, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 하라 |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
1975년 그랑프리 여러 곳에서 열린 인종 요약본을 대신해서 우리를 자해하고 팔다리가 없는 토르소들이 편집한 위키피디아를 떠나는 것에 대한 소문으로 바꾸고 있다.나는 그들을 위키미디어에 보고할 것이지만 나는 '나는 지구상의 모든 위키피디아 사람들을 그들의 머리와 손을 잘라 죽일 것이다'가 정말로 믿을 만한 위협이라고 생각하지 않는다.만약 누군가가 그들을 막아서 하얀 벽이 있는 가장 가까운 큰 집으로 보낼 수 있다면, 그것은 좋을 것이다.고마워 :) 레몬 마티니 (토크) 10:43, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 되돌리고, 차단되고, 무시된다.IP는 Devon Council(실제 Council 직원이 아닌 도서관 터미널일 가능성이 있음)에 속한다.나는 일주일 동안 그들이 새로운 취미를 찾을 수 있는 시간을 주기 위해 평소보다 긴 블록을 주었다.∙ 무지개빛 10:49, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 항상 믿을 수 없다고 생각하지는 마...
GRAPPLEX 10:50, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 내 운에 맡기고 말겠어.∙ 무지개빛 10:52, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
팀 린스쿰의 공격자
IP 편집기 2600:1001:B010:2138:AC44:B2EA:91C5:ACA3는 팀을 자유계약선수에서 뉴욕 양키스로 바꾸기 위해 팀 린스쿰을 계속 편집하고 있다.구글 뉴스 검색에 따르면 그는 여전히 자유계약선수(FA)이다. 가장 최근의 뉴스는 현재 9시간이며 보스턴 레드삭스에 의해 고려되고 있을지도 모른다는 것이다.Yankees에 대해서는 아무것도 아니다.30분도 안 돼 다섯 번이나 공공 기물 파손이라는 거군참조, 예: 이 편집 —Anomalocaris (대화) 15:11, 2016년 5월 8일(UTC)[
- 이 문서는 이미 보류 중인 변경사항을 사용하여 보호되므로 IP에 의한 모든 편집을 승인해야 한다.나는 이 단계에서 그들의 편집 내용을 되돌리고 그들이 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에서 지원하지 않는 변화라면 받아들이지 않는 것이 가장 간단하다고 생각한다.리즈 15:51, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 이 일은 일단 멈춘 것 같으니 현시점에서는 아무런 조치도 필요하지 않다.IP 사용자들이 기사를 파손하는 일이 반복되고, IP주소가 차단되는 경우를 한동안 보아왔다.IP 차단을 요청하기 위한 페이지인가, 그렇지 않다면 그 페이지는 어디에 있는가?보호된 페이지를 파손하는 것은 검토자에게 부담을 주므로, 때로는 IP 차단이 추가 도구가 될 수 있으며, 위키백과의 유익한 기여자로 변환하는 데 도움이 될 수도 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.—Anomalocaris (대화) 19:45, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 여기서 IP나 사용자를 보고할 수 있지만, 여기서(편집 내용이 명백히 비협조적인 경우) 가장 좋은 방법은 경고 템플릿을 사용하는 것이며, 레벨 4 경고에 도달한 후에는 WP에 위반자를 보고한다.AIV. -- The Videwalker 19:27, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
위키백과:삭제/사용자:Godsy/sandbox
위키백과:삭제/사용자:Godsy/Sandbox는 Speed Keep #2에 따라 즉시 닫아야 한다.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 06:43, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 이건 고디가 편집한 내용을 스토킹한 최신판이야내가 작업한 기사들의 히트 리스트가 필요해서 죽일 이유가 없지몇 주 동안 내가 만지는 엄청난 수의 페이지들이 Godsy에 의해 즉시 감동을 받는다 - 그래서 나는 그가 내가 편집하는 모든 것을 그가 확인한다고 믿는다.그는 많은 페이지를 개선하지 않고 오래된 사용자 공간으로 다시 이동시켰다.이것은 논의 없이 삭제하는 것이다.만약 어떤 페이지가 더 많은 참조가 필요하다고 생각한다면, 올바른 행동은 특히 내전 연대[37]나 AfD 중간에 있는 박물관 페이지와 같은 논란의 여지가 없는 주제에 태그를 달거나 더 나은 의견을 추가하는 것이다.레거시pac (토크) 07:06, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)내가 한 일은 위키백과 정책과 지침의 모호하지 않은 오류나 위반을 바로잡고, 여러 기사에 관련된 문제를 바로잡는 것뿐이다.WP를 계속 무시하는 경우:STALEDRAFT, 콘텐츠가 적합하지 않은 메인 스페이스로 이동(예: 사용자:압신하/보하르 람마노하르 신하, 스페셜 :Diff/705686655) 그리고 심지어 메인 스페이스까지 페이지를 옮기고 나서 이후에 개인적으로 그것들을 삭제하도록 지명했다(예: 위키백과:삭제/Graffiki 및 Wikipedia 관련 기사:삭제/Richard D'Anjolel) 조항.활성 사용자의 사용자 공간에서 페이지 이동(예: 사용자:ONUnicorn/Browning Hill Research, 사용자 대화:레거시pac#브라우닝 힐).마지막으로 내가 친절하게 맡은 메인 스페이스로 이동하는 콘텐츠의 기본 정리(예: 카테고리 활성화, 스타일 및 포맷 오류의 명백한 매뉴얼 수정 등)를 하지 못한다.당신이 내 샌드박스를 지명하는 것은 오로지 혼란의 장을 마련하고 나를 괴롭히기 위한 것이다.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:31, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나를 괴롭히는 것은 신이다.이미 광범위하게 논의된, 분명하게 언급된 바와 같이, 내가 AfD'd의 오래된 두 가지 움직임을 언급하는 것은 꽤 어리석다.내가 Godsy에게 지적했듯이 - 출처가 없는 것으로 분류된 20만 페이지 이상이 있지만, 그는 내가 보통 쉽게 소싱될 수 있는 논란의 여지가 없는 정보를 포함하고 있는 메인 스페이스로 옮겨간 오래된 초안에만 초점을 맞추고 있다.많은 다른 편집자들은 새로운 페이지에 태깅과 정리를 하는 것을 좋아하지만, 매우 적은 수의 편집자들이 잠재력이 있는 낡은 초안을 채광하는 데 능숙하다.만약 내가 내가 만지는 모든 기사를 좋은 기사 상태로 만들어야 한다면, 나는 사용자 공간에 있는 쓰레기/공백/공격/금지된 복사본/등으로부터 좋은 물건을 선별하는 데 큰 진전을 보지 못할 것이다.레거시pac (대화) 08:57, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 내가 그것을 발견했을 때, 이 페이지와 같은 [38]는 여러 개의 Redlinks에 대한 응답은 "불합격"이 아니다.이제 다른 편집자가 카피비오를 발견해서 그것을 다시 쓰는 대신에 삭제했지만, 그것이 우리가 협조적으로 일하는 이유다.다른 누군가가 복구해서 다시 쓸 수 있을거야...Godsy가 사전 통지나 XfD 없이 전체 페이지를 케케묵은 사용자 공간으로 강등시켰다는 점을 제외하면 말이다.레거시pac (대화) 09:03, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 예: 사용자:Admfirepanther/The Genius Files(특별한 파일:Diff/706182169) 그러면(주공간에 카피비오를 도입하는 것이 칭찬할 만한 것은 아님), 비소싱(자체 제외) 및 외관상 좋지 않은 것 같다.문제는 콘텐츠가 일정한 기준(핵심 콘텐츠 정책과 공신력 정책 충족)에 도달할 때까지 메인스페이스로 이동할 수 있는 기준을 충족하지 못한다는 점이다.나는 그저 낡은 지침 초안을 따르고 때때로 BRD를 호출한다.만약 당신이 낡은 초안 가이드라인에 동의하지 않는다면, 그것에 대한 변경을 얼마든지 제안하라.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 09:19, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- Godsy는 케케묵은 초안 가이드라인을 이해하지 못하고 다른 조항이 충족될 필요가 없는 기사 1일광에 메인 스페이스의 기준을 정한다.콘텐츠를 재구매하려는 그의 행동은 독자를 위한 백과사전을 개선하지 못한다.그가 삭제한 페이지를 케케묵은 사용자 공간으로 복원한 것은 백과사전에 도움이 되지 않는다.그는 단순히 나를 경악하고 내가 뒤로 물러설 때마다 나를 ANi로 끌고 간다.그의 최근 예는 한 작가가 자신의 페이지와 다른 대부분의 책들에 대한 페이지들을 가지고 있는 책 시리즈들이다.만약 책 시리즈가 그의 주장처럼 정말로 눈에 띄지 않는다면, 이미 삭제하거나 제목을 더 잘 리디렉션하고 그 내용을 저자의 페이지로 병합하라.페이지를 다시 오래된 드래프트 공간으로 보내고 제목을 삭제하는 것은 아무에게도 도움이 되지 않는다.User_talk:애드파이어판터/The_Genius_FilesLegacypac (대화) 10:21, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)과정은 중요하고, 나는 그것을 따른다."뒤로 피싱할 때마다"위키피디아는 전쟁터가 아니다.내가 너를 AN/I에 "끌어넣은" 유일한 시간은 위키백과다.관리자 게시판/사고 #사용자 공간 하위 페이지 문제—godsy(TALKCONT) 10:37, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- Godsy는 스토킹할 다른 사용자를 찾아야 한다.나쁜 결과를 얻기 위한 과정은 중요하지 않다. 그것은 어리석고 파괴적이다.Godsy는 내 페이지의 동작이 "논의되지 않은"것이라고 불러왔다. 마치 내가 나 자신과 그것의 토크 페이지에 있는 오래된 사용자 초안을 옮기는 것에 대해 논의해야 하는 것처럼 말이다.그러나 그는 아무런 논의도 없이 많은 기사들을 메인 스페이스 밖으로 옮기고 있다.나는 Godsy가 기사토크 페이지에 대한 합의를 구하거나 AfD를 통해 페이지를 다른 사람의 (일반적으로 오래 전에 사라진 편집자) 사용자 공간으로 옮기기 전에 페이지를 실행하도록 요구되어야 한다고 생각한다.레거시pac (대화) 10:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- (편집 갈등) B- 당신의 움직임은 의심의 여지 없이 대담하다. R- Bold 편집은 종종 되돌린다. 당신이 내 토크 페이지에서 나에게 물었고 나는 당신과 되돌린 어떤 변화도 기꺼이 논의하겠다고 말했다; Bold, Revert, Talk."레거시팩의 편집에 대한 검토는 그가 이전에 대담하고 나쁜 짓을 한 적이 있다는 점에서 전적으로 적절하다고 생각한다." MfD의 누군가의 의견의 일부분이다.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 11:11, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Legacypac이 일방적으로 메인 스페이스로 이동하는 다른 사람들의 사용자 공간 페이지의 로그를 보관해야 한다고 생각한다.그 로그로, 이러한 논의들을 알 수 있을 것이다. --스모키조 (대화) 11:04, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- Godsy는 스토킹할 다른 사용자를 찾아야 한다.나쁜 결과를 얻기 위한 과정은 중요하지 않다. 그것은 어리석고 파괴적이다.Godsy는 내 페이지의 동작이 "논의되지 않은"것이라고 불러왔다. 마치 내가 나 자신과 그것의 토크 페이지에 있는 오래된 사용자 초안을 옮기는 것에 대해 논의해야 하는 것처럼 말이다.그러나 그는 아무런 논의도 없이 많은 기사들을 메인 스페이스 밖으로 옮기고 있다.나는 Godsy가 기사토크 페이지에 대한 합의를 구하거나 AfD를 통해 페이지를 다른 사람의 (일반적으로 오래 전에 사라진 편집자) 사용자 공간으로 옮기기 전에 페이지를 실행하도록 요구되어야 한다고 생각한다.레거시pac (대화) 10:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)과정은 중요하고, 나는 그것을 따른다."뒤로 피싱할 때마다"위키피디아는 전쟁터가 아니다.내가 너를 AN/I에 "끌어넣은" 유일한 시간은 위키백과다.관리자 게시판/사고 #사용자 공간 하위 페이지 문제—godsy(TALKCONT) 10:37, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 내가 그것을 발견했을 때, 이 페이지와 같은 [38]는 여러 개의 Redlinks에 대한 응답은 "불합격"이 아니다.이제 다른 편집자가 카피비오를 발견해서 그것을 다시 쓰는 대신에 삭제했지만, 그것이 우리가 협조적으로 일하는 이유다.다른 누군가가 복구해서 다시 쓸 수 있을거야...Godsy가 사전 통지나 XfD 없이 전체 페이지를 케케묵은 사용자 공간으로 강등시켰다는 점을 제외하면 말이다.레거시pac (대화) 09:03, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 나를 괴롭히는 것은 신이다.이미 광범위하게 논의된, 분명하게 언급된 바와 같이, 내가 AfD'd의 오래된 두 가지 움직임을 언급하는 것은 꽤 어리석다.내가 Godsy에게 지적했듯이 - 출처가 없는 것으로 분류된 20만 페이지 이상이 있지만, 그는 내가 보통 쉽게 소싱될 수 있는 논란의 여지가 없는 정보를 포함하고 있는 메인 스페이스로 옮겨간 오래된 초안에만 초점을 맞추고 있다.많은 다른 편집자들은 새로운 페이지에 태깅과 정리를 하는 것을 좋아하지만, 매우 적은 수의 편집자들이 잠재력이 있는 낡은 초안을 채광하는 데 능숙하다.만약 내가 내가 만지는 모든 기사를 좋은 기사 상태로 만들어야 한다면, 나는 사용자 공간에 있는 쓰레기/공백/공격/금지된 복사본/등으로부터 좋은 물건을 선별하는 데 큰 진전을 보지 못할 것이다.레거시pac (대화) 08:57, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- (충돌 편집)내가 한 일은 위키백과 정책과 지침의 모호하지 않은 오류나 위반을 바로잡고, 여러 기사에 관련된 문제를 바로잡는 것뿐이다.WP를 계속 무시하는 경우:STALEDRAFT, 콘텐츠가 적합하지 않은 메인 스페이스로 이동(예: 사용자:압신하/보하르 람마노하르 신하, 스페셜 :Diff/705686655) 그리고 심지어 메인 스페이스까지 페이지를 옮기고 나서 이후에 개인적으로 그것들을 삭제하도록 지명했다(예: 위키백과:삭제/Graffiki 및 Wikipedia 관련 기사:삭제/Richard D'Anjolel) 조항.활성 사용자의 사용자 공간에서 페이지 이동(예: 사용자:ONUnicorn/Browning Hill Research, 사용자 대화:레거시pac#브라우닝 힐).마지막으로 내가 친절하게 맡은 메인 스페이스로 이동하는 콘텐츠의 기본 정리(예: 카테고리 활성화, 스타일 및 포맷 오류의 명백한 매뉴얼 수정 등)를 하지 못한다.당신이 내 샌드박스를 지명하는 것은 오로지 혼란의 장을 마련하고 나를 괴롭히기 위한 것이다.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:31, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
일반 원칙의 관점에서, 이 경우(내가 조사하지 않은)의 특정 행동에 대해서는 언급하지 않고 다음을 수행하십시오.아직 공개되지 않은 오래된 초안에 대한 최근의 종합 RfC에서는 여기서 내가 생각하는 중심적인 문제를 다루는 질문이 있었다.그것은 "사용자 공간 초안이 작성자가 아닌 사용자에 의해 메인 스페이스로 이동되지만, 사용자 공간에 적용되지 않는 이유로 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않은 경우, 삭제하지 않고 사용자 공간으로 반환해야 하는가?"라고 물었다.RfC가 아직 닫히지 않았지만, 적어도 그 섹션의 결과는 많은 편집자들이 의견을 개진하면서 사용자 공간으로 돌아가는 것을 지지하는 데 있어서 매우 명확한 합의점이다.A2soup (대화) 11:16, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
법적위협
법적 위협 때문에 차단됨조셉 경 20:48, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
이 편집을 참조하십시오.Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); 앤디와 대화; 앤디의 편집 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- 법적 위협에 차단되고, 나타날 수 있는 만큼 약하다.나는 어떤 경우에도 그를 차단하지 말 것을 권하고 싶다. 그는 이미 4월에 1주일의 블록을 얻었고, 그의 기여를 보면 그가 장난치러 온 것이 분명하다.베스노우트 (대화) 12:01, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- @BethNaught:감사합니다.동일한 계정으로 편집된 다른 사용자 페이지를 참고하십시오.Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); 앤디와 대화: 앤디의 편집은 12:03, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
비소싱 장르 추가
NAC, IP가 1주일 동안 차단됨.조셉 경 17:35, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
108.5.112.156(토크·기여·WHOIS)은 '눈길'(밴드)과 장르 전쟁을 벌여왔으며, 이들의 토크 페이지에는 지난 1월부터 비소싱 장르를 기사에 추가한 오랜 역사가 있고, 이들의 토크 페이지에는 최종 경고가 난무하고 있다(참고:이것은 위에서 보고한 것과 다른 주제 영역에서 보고한 것과는 다른 사용자다) 오픈쿠퍼 (대화) 13:34, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- 마침내 음악 기사에서 장르를 없애고, 그로 인해 ANI의 교통량을 15% 줄일 수 있을까?EENG 13:48, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ 하라
IP 삭스 블록 회피
IP가 sockpuppet으로 차단됨.조셉 경 19:34, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
76.21.72.248(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)은 확인된 양말이지만 계속 편집하고 있다.누군가 그 주소를 차단해 주면 고맙겠어.고마워요.루그넛 18:42, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
- 고마워루그넛 19:28, 2016년 5월 12일 (UTC)[
부적절한 사용자 이름
UAA에 보고됨.앞으로 이와 같은 파괴적인 사용자 이름을 보게 될 경우, 위키백과를 사용해 보십시오.관리자 주의를 기울일 사용자 이름.옴니 불꽃 01:07, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[ |
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
안녕하십니까? 다음 사용자 이름이 부적절하다고 생각합니다만:사용자:Sacksalimmehajer.Salim Mehajer는 논란이 될 수 있지만(사용자 이름으로 표현된 정서에 동의한다) 나는 Mehajer씨를 단독으로 공격하는 사용자 이름을 갖는 것은 적절하지 않다고 생각한다.나는 그들에게 차단되어 적절한 사용자 이름을 선택하라고 충고할 것이다. - Letsbefiends (대화) 00:42, 2016년 5월 14일 (UTC)[
Xismrd의 중단적 편집
Xismrd(토크 · 기고)는 이미 행위로 막혔음에도 불구하고 계속해서 판테온-소르본 대학('라소르본느', 파리 1을 라소르본의 유일한 후계자로 보이게 하는 문장 등)의 글에서 똑같은 허위 진술을 소개하고 있다.아마도 IP 사용자들과 같은 종류의 편집을 한 동일 인물일 것이다.
대화 페이지 섹션:
예:
--Launebee (대화)20:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 먼저 토크페이지에 ~~~4개의 틸트로 당신의 게시물에 서명을 해야 하기 때문에 누가 이 보고서를 올렸는지 알 수 있다.
- 둘째로, 당신은 편집자의 토크 페이지에 그들이 참여할 수 있도록 이 토론을 알리는 공지를 게시해야 한다.
- 마지막으로, Xismrd의 편집은 대부분 3월에 이루어졌고 4월 24일 이후로 편집이 되지 않았다.기사토크페이지에서 토론이 벌어지고 있는 것 같은데, 바로 그 부분에서 토론이 이루어져야 한다.리즈 15:46, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 1 미안해, 잊어버렸어! 2 그랬어, 네 공지 바로 위 3 4월에 또 그랬어.그 토론은 그의 편집방식이 아닌 다른 주제를 다룬다.그는 방금 여기서 3월에 뭔가를 썼을 뿐[45] 다시는 논의하지 않았다. --로네비 (대화) 20:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 요점은, 그는 거의 3주 동안 토론할 일을 하지 않았다는 것이다. 151.230.93.81 (대화) 16:59, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC ]
- 1 미안해, 잊어버렸어! 2 그랬어, 네 공지 바로 위 3 4월에 또 그랬어.그 토론은 그의 편집방식이 아닌 다른 주제를 다룬다.그는 방금 여기서 3월에 뭔가를 썼을 뿐[45] 다시는 논의하지 않았다. --로네비 (대화) 20:53, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
IP:201.81.64.163
이 IP 사용자의 최근 편집 내용은 모두 나 또는 다른 편집자에 의해 되돌렸다.편집된 내용이 어느 정도 관련이 있는 반면, 요약본은 오해의 소지가 있는 것으로 보이며, 기사의 경우 알로에가 기존 인용문들과 충돌하는 것처럼 보였다.나는 IP의 토크 페이지에 있는 그 기사의 편집을 지원하기 위해 시트를 요청했다.그렇지 않으면 공공 기물 파손일 수도 있다.사용자 대화:201.81.64.163#20165월에 디프가 제공된다.5월 1일에 대한 모든 기여는 취소되었지만(오번머리에 있는 기여는 제외) 이에 앞서 편집된 내용을 확인할 수 없었다.여기에 글을 올리면 경험이 풍부한 편집자들의 추가 검토가 필요하다.휘즈40 (대화) 21:26, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 이 편집은 2015년 12월에 시작되었고 내내 문제가 있었다.예: [46], [47]을 참조하십시오.나는 편집 이력과 가능한 블록에 대한 검토가 숙련된 편집자에 의해 고려될 필요가 있다고 생각한다.그 패턴은 기사 속의 무결성과 정보를 파괴하고 있기 때문에 파괴적이다.휘즈40 (대화) 21:30, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
IP 편집기의 개인 공격
한 IP 편집자는 내가 Pam Bondi에 대한 BLP와 관련하여 거짓말을 하고 있다고 거듭 비난했다.[48], [49], [50], [51], [52], [53] 그는 나와 의견이 다를 수도 있지만, 내가 하는 말을 뒷받침하는 믿을 만한 출처를 여러 군데 제공해서 이것이 내가 꾸며낸 것이 아니라는 것을 증명해 주었다.그러나 IP는 나를 거짓말쟁이라고 부르는 것을 정당화할 만한 어떤 증거도 제시하지 못했다.그는 자신의 토크 페이지[54], [55], 기사 토크 페이지[56], BLPN[57]에서 여러 차례 경고를 받았다.편집자는 여기에 통지 [58] 니츠히프트36 (대화) 02:40, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
사용자:Mannargudi 및 Lajagopalaswamy 사원, Mannargudi에 미완성/불만 컨텐츠 추가 Harizen20
사용자:Harizen20은 Mannargudi와 Mannargudi의 Rajagopalaswamy 사원에서 미완성/불만성 콘텐츠를 추가하는데, 반복적으로 요청함에도 불구하고, Mannargudi의 Rajagalaswamy 사원에 - 제발 도와줘.쉬람 mt (토크) 11:36, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
아라신크
내 토크 페이지의 사용자:아라싱크 토크 페이지.아라시치가 "나는 존 코놀리(밴드의 기타리스트)의 친구"라고 말했기 때문에 되돌아온 참조 정보를 추가했다.2015년 3월에 크레딧에 대해 물어봤다"고 말했다.U r 사람들에게 잘못된 정보를 준다.그 작사 크레딧들은 완전히 거짓이다."내가 변경한 내용은 참조되었고, 내가 한 추가 내용에 동의하지 않는 대체 참조 항목으로 추가/보관할 것을 제안받았다. --리히혼초(토크) 23:34, 2016년 5월 8일(UTC)[
- 엔젤에게 미안하다, 내 마음은 텍스트와 인포박스의 차이에 있었다.문제는 세븐더스트 노래 기사 전체를 다룬다.
- 일부는 두 번째 되돌림, 일부는 이미 세 번째 되돌림, 예를 들어, Frived (Sevendust song), 첫 번째 되돌림, 두 번째 되돌림 Niceguyedc의 되돌림으로 표시되지만 내 편집을 포함함.세 번째로 되돌리다
- 그의 토크 페이지에서의 토론은 여기저기서 삭제되었다.내 토크페이지에 대한 모든 토론은 거기서 볼 수 있다.COI가 적절한 고발인지는 확실치 않다. - 모르는 사람을 아는 체하는 사람이었던 것 같다 - 제 토크 페이지 --리히혼초 (토크) 14:35, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ ]의 첫 게시물을 본다
- 엔젤에게 미안하다, 내 마음은 텍스트와 인포박스의 차이에 있었다.문제는 세븐더스트 노래 기사 전체를 다룬다.
사용자:해결 해제
안녕, 사용자 문제가 있어:언헤지.그의 편집 이력은 그가 WP를 가지고 있을지도 모른다는 것을 암시하는 것 같다.COI, 그리고 내가 그에게 그것에 대해 이야기하려고 할 때, 그는 무례하고 나의 질문에 대답하기를 거부한다.그는 나에게 무엇보다도 나의 역량 영역을 고수하라고 말했다.내 토크 페이지를 봐. --TJH 2018톡 16:33, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
@User:TJH2018, 고마워, 처음에는 무례했음에도 불구하고 인신공격으로 받아 들인 내 코멘트를 되돌렸다가 (이후 당신의 토크페이지에서 삭제해줘서) 다행이야.남을 심판으로 삼아라.모두가 편견이 없고 근거 없는 출처(잡지 등)에 의존하지 않는 한, 어떤 동기부여를 위해 위키백과를 편집한다.내 언급은 공식 문서에 근거한 것인데, 공식 문서에 근거하여 내 버전이 훨씬 더 정확한 이유를 증명하는 댓글을 달았음에도 불구하고 당신이 내 작업을 되돌린 것이다.당신이 편집하고 있는 주제를 굳이 이해하거나 자세히 읽을 필요도 없었다.사용자:해고 18:09, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 언헤지 - TJH2018이 당신에게 무례했던 곳이 어디인지 모르겠는데, 설명해 주시겠습니까?위의 답변에서 언급하는 "문서"는 무엇인가?이러한 2차 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 일반인에 의해 동료 검토 및 검증될 수 있는가?그렇지 않다면 이것은 위키백과에서는 허용되지 않는 독창적인 연구처럼 들린다.나는 당신이 원본 연구는 물론 신뢰할 수 있는 출처 파악에 대한 위키피디아의 지침을 검토할 것을 강력히 권고한다.이러한 지침은 귀하의 우려를 해소하고 어떤 출처가 허용 가능한 것으로 구성되며 그렇지 않은지를 이해하는 데 도움이 될 수 있다.나는 또한 당신이 제국 태평양에서의 편집 전쟁에 관여할지도 모른다는 것을 안다.매우 조심해라; 3역전의 규칙을 어기는 것은 편집 전쟁을 일으킬 수 있기 때문이다. (Wikipedia에서는 허용되지 않는다.)기사에서 더 이상 변경하기 전에 기사의 토크 페이지에서 시간을 내어 고민에 대해 논의하십시오.그렇게 하지 않으면 당신의 계정에 블록이 놓이게 될 것이다.네가 언급하는 서류에 대한 너의 답변을 기다릴게.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 9일(UTC) 17:23[
이건 공기업 스텁이고, 내가 대화 페이지에 포함시킨 훌륭한 자료들은 교환 서류들이다.및 사용자:TJH2018은 의사소통도 하지 않은 채 작품을 되돌렸고, 이어 나(원저자)에게 무례하다고 비난했다.그 기사는 이미 중국어로 긴 스탠딩 버전을 가지고 있다.언헤지 18:30, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)
- 뭐라고?내가 편집할 수 있는 것과 편집할 수 없는 것을 말해 주는 당신은 누구인가?넌 여기서 이해관계가 크게 상충되는 것 같아.WP를 참조하십시오.COI. 이 회사에 근무하고 있는 경우, 편집비를 받는 경우뿐만 아니라, 이를 공개해야 한다. --TJH2018토크 23:24, 2016년 5월 8일 (UTC)[
- 방금 3RR 위반으로 막혔어.또한, 너는 완전히 무례해.편집자에게 '자신의 역량을 고수하라'고 말할 수는 없다.그건 모욕일 뿐이고, 내가 뭘 아는지 네가 어떻게 알아?TJH 2018톡 17:41, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- TJH2018토크 17:43, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC) 논평 어제부터 : "면죄송합니다만, 이미 중국어로 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%9A%E8%8F%AF%E5%A4%AA%E5%B9%B3%E6%B4%8BStick에 잘 문서화된 버전이 있어서 당신이 알고 있는 내용을 담고 있다.(대화) 오후 5시 30분, 어제(UTC-7) 고마워"[
- TJH2018 - 화를 내고 그와 머리를 맞대서 상황을 악화시키지 말자.때로는 힘들 수 있다는 것을 이해한다(믿어줘...하하) 하지만 우리가 여기 온 것은 선의의 행동을 취하고, "비판적인 논평"을 지나며, 우리가 할 수 있는 모든 것을 돕기 위해서라는 것을 기억하라.어떤 코멘트를 던졌음에도 불구하고 침착하고 프로페셔널하게 행동할 때, 그것은 보통 그가 그렇게 하는 결과를 초래할 것이다."실례하십니까? 내가 편집할 수 있는 것과 편집할 수 없는 것을 누구한테 말하란 말인가?", 상황을 더 악화시킬 뿐이다. 무슨 일이 있어도 우리는 가능한 한 평화롭게 되기 위해 여기 있다는 것을 기억하라. :-) ~ 오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[ 하라
- TJH2018토크 17:43, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC) 논평 어제부터 : "면죄송합니다만, 이미 중국어로 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%9A%E8%8F%AF%E5%A4%AA%E5%B9%B3%E6%B4%8BStick에 잘 문서화된 버전이 있어서 당신이 알고 있는 내용을 담고 있다.(대화) 오후 5시 30분, 어제(UTC-7) 고마워"[
- 방금 3RR 위반으로 막혔어.또한, 너는 완전히 무례해.편집자에게 '자신의 역량을 고수하라'고 말할 수는 없다.그건 모욕일 뿐이고, 내가 뭘 아는지 네가 어떻게 알아?TJH 2018톡 17:41, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
내 토크 페이지에서 문제 검토 요청
일부 추가 관리자에게 사용자 대화를 검토하도록 요청:베어크#Assange 월드 투모로우 타이틀 카드 VS 암스트롱 월드 투모로우 타이틀 카드 업로드IP는 현재 "위키피디아 법인 사무실에 전화를 걸어 불만을 제기했으며" "내일 우리와 행정실 사이에 전화 회의가 예정되어 있다"고 협박하고 있다.
이는 라디오/텔레비전 프로그램 제작자가 만든 장기 양말/고기 인형(2012년으로 거슬러 올라간다)과 관련이 있다.과거의 장애에는 NLT, NPA, COI, 3RR, OWN이 포함되었다.이전 토론과 의심스러운 양말들에 대한 관련 링크는 참고로 내 토크 페이지에 있다.(편집: 현재 사용자 대화에 보관됨:베어크/아카이브 2016#Assange 월드 투모로우 타이틀 카드 VS 암스트롱 월드 투모로우 타이틀 카드 업로드) - - 베어크(토크 • 기여) - 05:44, 2016년 5월 11일(UTC)[
- 이것은 국경선 법적 위협이다. 그리고 확실히 WP:호킹, 하지만 이건 IP 호퍼니까 레인지 블록 외에는 아무것도 할 수 없는 것 같아.--Ymblanter (토크) 06:00, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 나는 어쩔 수 없이 동의한다.불행히도 대부분의 IP는 버라이즌 와이어리스(그리고 소수의 다른 네트워크들)로 거슬러 올라가기 때문에 레인지 블록도 실용적이지 않을 것 같다.특히 새로운 전술로 보이는 위협의 특성상(그들은 법적 위협을 잘 알고 있어 블록을 초래하므로, 이는 오랜 시간 동안 지속된 오해에 의존하는 대체적인 시도인 것 같다) 내 토크 페이지와 관련 기사의 혼란에 대해 좀 더 자세히 알아보기 위해 주로 이 문제를 제기하고 있다.g 기업 위계질서의 일종으로 위키백과 구조의 일부. --- 베어크 (대화 • 기여) - 06:16, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
바렉이 허위 신고한 것처럼 법적 대응의 위협은 없다.Barek은 오랫동안 서 있는 혼란의 역사를 가진 사람이다.그 물건은 손해다.또한 바렉은 여러 개의 위키백과 계정을 가지고 있는데, 이것은 양말 인형 정의에 속한다.우리는 돌 상원의원에 대한 언급이 복원되기를 요청했다.베어크는 전체 섹션을 삭제했다.우리는 타이틀 카드를 포함시켜 달라고 요청했다.우리는 몇 년 전에 줄리안 어산지를 상대로 저작권 보호를 신청해야 했고, 어산지는 그의 프로그램 이름을 The World Tomorrow (일명 월드 투모로우)에서 간단히 줄리안 어산지 쇼로 바꾸었다.그러나 위키피디아에서는 그 변화가 결코 수정되지 않았다.또한, 우리는 교회 단체로서 그 기사가 진실하고 정확해야 한다고 요청했다.바렉과 그의 친구들이 이 기사를 파괴적으로 편집한 것은 수 많은 것이며 수 많은 세월 동안 서로 결탁해 왔다.바렉은 반체제 성도들 중 한 명인 것으로 알려져 있는데, 이는 그의 개인적인 편향된 파괴 행위를 기사에 설명해줄 것이다.— 198.223.202.47 (대화) 06:32, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 이(가) 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
사용자:Rpo.castro
Rpo.castro는 SC 브라가 B, SC 브라가(비치 축구) 및 파일:Sporting Clube Braga.png SLBedit (토크) 00:53, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- WP에 보고하는 것을 고려해 보십시오.NEWNEW. GABHello! 01:08, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 파일에서 무료가 아닌 합리성에 대한 설명되지 않은 제거:SLBedit(토크/컨트롤)에 의한 S.C.Braga B.png 및 S.C.B.B.B.C.B.B.B.가(비치 축구) 기사에서 하위 스쿼트 파일 제거파일토크에서 얘기해보려고 했는데스포르팅 Clube Braga.png 그러나 그의 견해는 지지 없이 (과거와 같은) 정당한 SLBedit (대화·출연)가 진행되는 것처럼 보인다.Rpo.castro (대화) 16:29, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 나는 왜 당신이 그 로고를 두 개 이상의 기사에 사용해서는 안 되는지 설명했다.넌 좀 둔해.SLBedit (talk) 20:41, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 안 그랬어.내가 당신의 진술에 대한 지지 부족을 언급하는 동안 당신은 단지 당신의 의견을 쓰시오.미결은 아직도 풀리지 않고 있다.Rpo.castro (대화) 10:22, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 "최소 사용"과 공정한 사용을 이해하지 못한다.이제 그만해.SLBedit (대화) 15:54, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- "최소 사용량:최소 항목 수.하나의 아이템이 동등한 유의미한 정보를 전달할 수 있다면 비자유 콘텐츠의 복수의 아이템은 사용하지 않는다." - 기사는 비자유 콘텐츠의 아이템이 여러 개가 아닌 1개뿐입니다.만약 충분할 때 2개 이상의 리텐스를 사용한다면, 나는 최소한의 사용량은 고정될 것이다. 하지만 그것은 그렇지 않다.나는 WP 정책에서 인용한 증거들을 당신에게 지적하는 반면, 당신은 지지 없이 당신의 생각을 진술할 뿐이다.Rpo.castro (대화) 12:31, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 "최소 사용"과 공정한 사용을 이해하지 못한다.이제 그만해.SLBedit (대화) 15:54, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 안 그랬어.내가 당신의 진술에 대한 지지 부족을 언급하는 동안 당신은 단지 당신의 의견을 쓰시오.미결은 아직도 풀리지 않고 있다.Rpo.castro (대화) 10:22, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 나는 왜 당신이 그 로고를 두 개 이상의 기사에 사용해서는 안 되는지 설명했다.넌 좀 둔해.SLBedit (talk) 20:41, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
- 파일에서 무료가 아닌 합리성에 대한 설명되지 않은 제거:SLBedit(토크/컨트롤)에 의한 S.C.Braga B.png 및 S.C.B.B.B.C.B.B.B.가(비치 축구) 기사에서 하위 스쿼트 파일 제거파일토크에서 얘기해보려고 했는데스포르팅 Clube Braga.png 그러나 그의 견해는 지지 없이 (과거와 같은) 정당한 SLBedit (대화·출연)가 진행되는 것처럼 보인다.Rpo.castro (대화) 16:29, 2016년 5월 9일 (UTC)[
성 조지의 리본 문제
최근 한 학생이 대애국전쟁에서 독일 나치정권에 대한 승리의 표시로 착용한 세인트조지 리본을 제거하기 위해 괴롭힘을 당한 뒤 신체적으로 구타를 당하는 동영상이 게재된 데 이어 해당 토크페이지에서 토론을 열었다.
1. 그 후 몇 시간 동안 우크라이나의 널리 알려진 수사 저널리스트 아나톨리 샤리이의 검증된 공식 채널에 게재되었지만, 그 내용이 믿을 만한 출처가 아니라는 사용자 임블란터의 질문을 받았다.그럼에도 불구하고 관련 당사자의 주장을 인용한 출처에 a를 기재해 기사를 개선했다.임블란터는 여러 가지 핑계를 대다가 마침내 내가 자기 시간을 가로채고 있다고 주장하고 사임했다.
2. 불과 몇 분 후, 또 다른 사용자. 나의 아주 좋은 소원, 여러 가지 비협조적인 주장(NOD는 친정부적, 경찰은 간섭하지 않았다=공격은 그것에 의해 조정되었다)을 낸 다음, "이것을 조금 고쳤다"고 주장했다.그러나, 그의 편집에서, 그는 (1)의 편집을 되돌렸다(삭제했다), 이것은 본질적으로 반달리즘이다.
나는 이러한 사용자들이 위키피디아 지침을 대신하지 않고 건설적이지 않고 중립적이며 무례한 행위(Ymblanter - 구두로, 나의 가장 좋은 소원 - 반달리즘에 의한 것)로 관리자에 따라 제재를 받고 있으며, "나의 가장 좋은 소원" 편집의 롤백을 요청하고 싶다.더 나아가, 나는 이러한 사용자들의 편집이 과거에 매우 동일한 성격을 가졌으며 아마도 검토되어야 한다는 것을 배제할 수 없다.고마워 87.78.236.178 (대화) 18:03, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 어제 여기서 이 공연의 이전 버전이 나왔어.--Ymblanter (토크) 18:06, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- I와 IP: 99.135.170.109는 완전히 무관하다는 것을 강력히 시사하고 싶다.87.78.236.178 (대화) 18:10, 2016년 5월 10일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 당신의 영어 구사력이 영어 위키백과의 내용을 편집하기에 충분하지 않다는 것을 분명히 말하고 싶다.역량이 요구되며, 여기에는 관련 백과사전의 언어로 일관성 있고 정확하게 쓸 수 있는 능력, 즉 여러분이 가지고 있는 것처럼 보이지 않는 기술, 즉 여러분이 친하지만 실제로 그곳에 있는 것은 아니다.나는 당신이 당신의 편집을 당신의 모국어 위키백과나 당신이 유능한 다른 언어로 한정하기를 제안한다.BMK (대화) 00:33, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 위키의 전임 편집자로서, 나는 이곳의 많은 사람들이 백과사전의 최종 사본을 편집할 만큼 충분히 글을 읽고 있지 않다고 본다.그러나 대부분의 경우, 콘텐츠에 대한 그들의 기여는 환영할 만하며, 그들의 위대한 작품을 정리하는 데 필요한 작은 턱걸이와 실밥은 전혀 거추장스럽지 않다.Grammar's Li'l HelperDiscourse 00:53, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 백과사전의 질을 떨어뜨리는 기여는 그들이 공공 기물 파괴 행위, 시험 편집, 부정확한 정보, 또는 너무 형편없이 쓰여져 있어서 독자들에게 무능하게 보이든지 간에 분명 환영받지 못한다.당신이 이 편집자에게 개인 복사기로 자신을 붙여서 그들이 하는 모든 것을 고칠 계획이 아니라면, 그들을 격려하지 마십시오.BMK (대화) 03:24, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 나는 언제든지 미끄러운 뱀 기름 판매원보다 정직하지만 비숙련인 사람을 선호한다.전자의 실수는 발견되었을 때 후자가 불성실하게 인정하는 '선량한 판단의 빗발'보다 항상 더 쉽게 고쳐진다.Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 15:37, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 그리고 나는 그들 둘 다보다 정직하고 숙련된 사람을 선호한다.왜 항상 일을 고쳐야 하는 사람을 위해 거꾸로 굴하지?만약 편집자가 백과사전 수준의 기사를 쓸 만큼 영어에 능숙하지 않다면, 그들은 단순히 내용을 추가해서는 안 된다. 여기에는 영어에 대한 숙련도가 필요하지 않은 다른 많은 것들이 있다.BMK (대화) 17:43, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 나는 언제든지 미끄러운 뱀 기름 판매원보다 정직하지만 비숙련인 사람을 선호한다.전자의 실수는 발견되었을 때 후자가 불성실하게 인정하는 '선량한 판단의 빗발'보다 항상 더 쉽게 고쳐진다.Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 15:37, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[ 하라
- 백과사전의 질을 떨어뜨리는 기여는 그들이 공공 기물 파괴 행위, 시험 편집, 부정확한 정보, 또는 너무 형편없이 쓰여져 있어서 독자들에게 무능하게 보이든지 간에 분명 환영받지 못한다.당신이 이 편집자에게 개인 복사기로 자신을 붙여서 그들이 하는 모든 것을 고칠 계획이 아니라면, 그들을 격려하지 마십시오.BMK (대화) 03:24, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 분명 새로운 기고자는 아니다. 이런 그들의 논평과 그들이 즉시 ANI에 불만을 가지고 왔다는 사실에 근거한다.나의 가장 좋은 소망 (대화) 2016년 5월 11일 01:46 (UTC)[
- 그리고 그들은 이 시스템을 어떻게 다루어야 하는지를 완벽하게 알고 있다: 러시아로서는 정부에 비판적인 주요 기관들이 CIA/ZOG/homever의 급여를 받고 있다고 선언한다(물론 그들은 크렘린에서 생산된 참고 자료로 이것을 증명하는 것이 행복할 것이다). 따라서 정부에 비판적인 모든 출처가 신뢰할 수 없고, 따라서 정부에 비판적인 모든 출처가 신뢰할 수 없다.기사에서 많은 정보를 삭제해야 한다.반면에 우크라이나의 경우, 내가 초기 단계에서 더 나은 소스를 찾으라고 충고했음에도 불구하고, 그들은 우리의 인식 기준에 훨씬 못 미치는 소스를 취해서 기사에 억지로 넣으려고 저녁 내내 시간을 보낸다.POV 푸셔들의 매우 전형적인 행동.--Ymblanter (대화) 06:36, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 그는 정치적 외침을 길게 늘어놓는다.우리 둘 다 아는 사용자랑 비슷한 것 같은데나의 가장 좋은 소망 (대화) 13:35, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 그들은 이 시스템을 어떻게 다루어야 하는지를 완벽하게 알고 있다: 러시아로서는 정부에 비판적인 주요 기관들이 CIA/ZOG/homever의 급여를 받고 있다고 선언한다(물론 그들은 크렘린에서 생산된 참고 자료로 이것을 증명하는 것이 행복할 것이다). 따라서 정부에 비판적인 모든 출처가 신뢰할 수 없고, 따라서 정부에 비판적인 모든 출처가 신뢰할 수 없다.기사에서 많은 정보를 삭제해야 한다.반면에 우크라이나의 경우, 내가 초기 단계에서 더 나은 소스를 찾으라고 충고했음에도 불구하고, 그들은 우리의 인식 기준에 훨씬 못 미치는 소스를 취해서 기사에 억지로 넣으려고 저녁 내내 시간을 보낸다.POV 푸셔들의 매우 전형적인 행동.--Ymblanter (대화) 06:36, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 위키의 전임 편집자로서, 나는 이곳의 많은 사람들이 백과사전의 최종 사본을 편집할 만큼 충분히 글을 읽고 있지 않다고 본다.그러나 대부분의 경우, 콘텐츠에 대한 그들의 기여는 환영할 만하며, 그들의 위대한 작품을 정리하는 데 필요한 작은 턱걸이와 실밥은 전혀 거추장스럽지 않다.Grammar's Li'l HelperDiscourse 00:53, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 당신의 영어 구사력이 영어 위키백과의 내용을 편집하기에 충분하지 않다는 것을 분명히 말하고 싶다.역량이 요구되며, 여기에는 관련 백과사전의 언어로 일관성 있고 정확하게 쓸 수 있는 능력, 즉 여러분이 가지고 있는 것처럼 보이지 않는 기술, 즉 여러분이 친하지만 실제로 그곳에 있는 것은 아니다.나는 당신이 당신의 편집을 당신의 모국어 위키백과나 당신이 유능한 다른 언어로 한정하기를 제안한다.BMK (대화) 00:33, 2016년 5월 11일 (UTC)[
소유권 클레임을 표시하는 사용자
우선, 나는 이것이 이 보고서를 만들 수 있는 올바른 게시판이기를 바란다.Josephlalrinhlua786(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)을 보고하기 위해 WP:기사 내용 소유.캡틴 아메리카: 남북전쟁은, 내가 그 기사의 "박스 오피스" 섹션에 초기 조정을 한 후, 조셉은 "모든 박스 오피스 편집 부분을 내가 할 수 있게 해줘"라고 말하는 편집 요약을 사용하여, 그 변경을 취소했다.거기에 100% 정보를 추가했다.렘메는 그 부분을 처리한다."나는 요셉에게 그들의 요약이 WP를 나타낸다고 말하면서 그 변화를 복원했다."아무도 기사에 한 섹션이나 다른 섹션의 "소유"를 하는 편집자는 없다.이 섹션은 중요한 작업이 필요하며, 나는 그것을 좀 더 관리 가능한 섹션으로 줄이는 작업을 하려고 한다."(내 의도를 그들에게 말해줄 마지막 부분).요셉은 그들의 요약에 약간 열을 가한 채 편집을 취소하고, 정보를 제시할 수 있는 구체적인 방법이 있다고 말하려 했다.
그런 다음 WP에 따라 불필요한 기록(또는 내가 생각하기에 "fluff")을 제거하면서, 나는 계속해서 기사의 박스오피스 부분을 정리했다.무차별.이러한 편집을 한 후, 나는 요셉의 토크 페이지에 공지를 붙였는데, 거기서 나는 내가 왜 변화를 주었는가를 편집 요약본에서 약간 확대하기를 바랐는데, 나는 그들이 그것에 관심을 가질 것을 알았기 때문이다.
이후, 이 섹션이 아닌 페이지의 편집에서, 조셉은 "매표 코너를 다시 써야 할 것"이라고 말한다.모든 중요한 정보가 제거된다.할 일이 많다"고 말했다. 그들은 내가 삭제한 어떤 것도 읽지 않고 섹션을 다시 써야 한다고 생각한다는 것을 명심하라. 내가 그들의 페이지에 올린 토크 페이지 포스트에서 그들이 할 수 있다고 제안했기 때문이다.그리고 마지막으로, 제 강연에 대한 응답으로, 요셉은 인신공격적인 모습을 보였는데, "내가 100개 이상의 기사를 편집한 것에 대해 아무도 문제를 가지고 있지 않다." 라고 덧붙여 말하기도 했다. 비록 이것은 그들의 강연 페이지와 기여도를 조사한다면, 이것은 사실이 아니지만, 위키피디아에 초점을 맞추고 있다.나는 관리자나 다른 사람들이 이 상황을 도울 수 있기를 바란다.내 정리 편집의 전부가 남아야 한다고 말하는 게 아니야 다른 걸 가져올 수 있을지도 몰라그러나 한 편집자가 이 섹션의 모든 측면을 통제하려고 할 때는 도움이 되지 않는다고 느낀다. - Favre1fan93 (토크) 14:57, 2016년 5월 7일 (UTC)[
- Very clear WP:OWN problems here. I don't immediately (without much investigation) see anything leading to a personal attack, though there's definitely some edit warring going on. I think perhaps it should be made clear to the editor that they do not get to own the box office section of articles. I wonder if it's worth enforcing restrictions? I'm not sure it is at this time. --Yamla (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Yamla: I felt their response on my talk was a little personal attack-y, but everyone has their own interpretations. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- It is never a good idea to try to resolve disputes using edit summaries. Please bring your dispute to Talk:Captain America: Civil War where other editors can weigh in with their thoughts. Going to the article talk page, rather than reverting, should be your first course of action. LizRead! Talk! 17:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Liz: I don't feel that any dispute was trying to be resolved in edit summaries. The reason I started this discussion here was because of the language Joseph used which cleared seemed to violate WP:OWN in my opinion. Since your comment, they have restored the whole formatting as they had it. Not only did that break reference formatting I adjusted to be consistent with the article on the whole, again, it was the whole section, not just parts they felt should have been added back. I have started a discussion regarding it on the talk page (after restoring the section for the ref formatting and my reasons of WP:INDISCRIMINATE), so I do hope that they join the discussion, here or there, so we can make some head way regarding this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- 나는 편집자 Josephlalrinhlua786이 심각한 문제들을 가지고 있다는 것에 동의한다.그러나 내 생각에 더 큰 문제는 그가 믿을 수 있는 출처와 신뢰할 수 없는 출처를 구분하지 못하는 불안정한 무능이다.나는 그에게 포브스 기고자가 믿을 만한 출처가 아니라는 것을 여러 번 지적했지만 소용이 없었다(포브스 기고자는 직원으로 있지 않고, 홍보 전 편집의 대상이 아니며, 사실 이후에 기사를 수정할 수 있는 포브스의 계약상 권리만 따르기 때문이다). 그리고 그는 그것들을 인용하는 것을 그만둘 필요가 있다.생계를 위해 글을 쓰는 사람이라면 누구나 알고 있듯이, 빡빡한 마감일 아래 편집자를 위해 글을 쓰는 것만큼 질 좋은 작품도 없다.불행하게도, 조세플랄린흘루아786은 그것을 이해하지 못하는 것 같다.
- Thus, nearly every film article Josephlalrinhlua786 has worked on has several citations to unreliable sources that will take other editors hundreds of hours to pull out. And no one has the time or energy to do that. So the result is that he is damaging the quality of the encyclopedia and will continue to do so until he is stopped. --Coolcaesar (talk) 17:00, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Coolcaesar: In regards to the Forbes contributors part, forgive me for not knowing exactly where, but there was a recent discussion regarding their reliability, either at the Film project or RSN. But more to your point, for major Hollywood releases, all of the box office information can 95% of the time be sourced by Deadline, who continually updates an article throughout the weekend with numbers. And if not, Variety or The Hollywood Reporter can also be used, most likely before Forbes. And an additional point is they don't seem to also understand that, even though data and numbers are being reported and is verifiable, it doesn't mean it has to be include (again to my original points about WP:INDISCRIMINATE). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Articles written by Forbes contributors can be considered reliable. Whether or not they are depends on the author's credibility in the subject he/she is reporting on. Some are paid, others are not. Also some receive some level of editorial oversight, while others receive little or none at all. So you can't make a blanket statement that "all" are reliable or unreliable. The recent discussions concerning this are: Talk:Avengers: Age of Ultron#Forbes "contributors" are not RS and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 207#Forbes article by credible contributor. --GoneIn60 (talk) 19:06, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Coolcaesar: In regards to the Forbes contributors part, forgive me for not knowing exactly where, but there was a recent discussion regarding their reliability, either at the Film project or RSN. But more to your point, for major Hollywood releases, all of the box office information can 95% of the time be sourced by Deadline, who continually updates an article throughout the weekend with numbers. And if not, Variety or The Hollywood Reporter can also be used, most likely before Forbes. And an additional point is they don't seem to also understand that, even though data and numbers are being reported and is verifiable, it doesn't mean it has to be include (again to my original points about WP:INDISCRIMINATE). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Liz: I don't feel that any dispute was trying to be resolved in edit summaries. The reason I started this discussion here was because of the language Joseph used which cleared seemed to violate WP:OWN in my opinion. Since your comment, they have restored the whole formatting as they had it. Not only did that break reference formatting I adjusted to be consistent with the article on the whole, again, it was the whole section, not just parts they felt should have been added back. I have started a discussion regarding it on the talk page (after restoring the section for the ref formatting and my reasons of WP:INDISCRIMINATE), so I do hope that they join the discussion, here or there, so we can make some head way regarding this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:25, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- It is never a good idea to try to resolve disputes using edit summaries. Please bring your dispute to Talk:Captain America: Civil War where other editors can weigh in with their thoughts. Going to the article talk page, rather than reverting, should be your first course of action. LizRead! Talk! 17:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Yamla: I felt their response on my talk was a little personal attack-y, but everyone has their own interpretations. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
SPI concern from banned user
Banned user Eaglestorm made this edit recently, bringing up an SPI concern about Whitmore 8621. The IP in question is 122.107.216.220 and it certainly does look like the same person. I'm not experienced enough in SPI to feel confident in doing anything—and I can't make blocks because I'm not an admin—but Eaglestorm's report is valid despite his/her block. (On a meta-note, I don't know whether I'm supposed to notify the IP, Whitmore8621, Eaglestorm or some mixture of the three for starting this ANI thread. I've not notified anyone yet—two of the three are banned and the IP seems like a troll even if they're not the same user.) — Bilorv(talk)(c)(e) 17:06, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- This edit summary makes it pretty obvious. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
User:7&6=thirteen falsely accusing me of OR
(non-admin closure) This is entirely a content dispute, and therefore cannot be settled here. Please take steps at Dispute resolution BMK (talk) 21:25, 12 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
On American Nazi Party, which has no reliable sources to back up the claim that the original version of the group founded by George Lincoln Rockwell is the very same as the "new" version founded by Rocky Suhayda out of post office box in Micihigan, I switch over to the past sense and suggest on the talk that if no reliable sources are found to link the two properly, the new organization should not be conflated with the original.[59] The infobox further claims Rocky Suhayda as the new leader of the original group.[60] User:7&6=thirteen reverted my edits, falsely accusing me of original research [61] [62], when in point of fact that is totally false. His responses on the talk did not make much sense and ignored everything I was stating in response.[63] [64] [65]. He then threatened me with a block for 3RR on my talk.[66] We both obviously edit warred, however this editor's attitude, bad faith and false accusations are not going to make any attempt at fixing that article productive, especially since they continue to ignore the fact that there are no reliable sources to assert continuity between the original Rockwell organization with this new "revival" based out of a website and post office box in Michigan. Laval (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
There is also this odd response to my suggestion we take this to ANI. [67] There is a barrier to communication here, unfortunately, when the editor in question is demanding sources when in actuality, no sources exist for their claim that the original organization exists. The article even claims its headquarters is in Arlington DC which was the HQ of the old ANP, while the "new" version is based out of a PO box in Michigan. Yet the editor keeps ignoring these problems and demanding sources to prove that the old and new versions are different. Laval (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I said he didn't source his contention that the new and improved American Nazi Party has a relationship (or doesn't) with the George Lincoln Rockwell iteration. Whatever became of the old brand of the American Nazi Party and what if any relation does it have to the Dearborn, Michigan iteration? Is this a state secret? I have said he should just source it and put it in the text. All I did was remove any unsourced mention of the Dearborn, Michigan organization. I can't make sense of his responses, so I won't characterize them. I suggested reasonable solutions on the article talk page I am not POV pushing. Just want sources. That is all. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:43, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- You offered no solutions on the talk, just dumping on me and accusing me of original research and demanding sources where none exist, i.e. there are no reliable or verifiable sources to even suggest that the Suhayda group is the same as the original Rockwell group. Only Suhayda is making that claim. Laval (talk) 20:46, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The point which this editor seems unable to even understand or acknowledge is that the only fact here is that the original group by Rockwell ended a long time ago. A revival was attempted by one of his disciples years later, but it was not the same organization. In 2014, Suhayda (apparently a former member in the old days) created a new website and proclaimed a new revival. But these are clearly different from the original. Why is it difficult for this editor to understand? Where are the sources (beyond Suhayda's own claims) that Rockwell's group and his are the same and thus using the present tense rather than past in the lead? Laval (talk) 20:49, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The current article does not as it exists mention the Dearborn, Michigan iteration. Doesn't mention Suhayda either. It could. If there is organizational continuity or discontinuity it should be documented and sourced. You have NEVER provided a source for your contention that the Rockwell organization disbanded. This should be resolved on the talk page, and not at WP:ANI. You have chosen not to respond at the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:54, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- So we are clear, I did not edit war, and did not violate WP:3RR. Nor did I accuse Laval of doing that. I gave him a caution flag only. And I have tried to resolve this on the talk page and do not get the courtesy of a response there. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- That's because I removed Suhayda's name! You're making it impossible to fix the article because the organization ceased to exist a long time ago. You're asserting that it still exists, and this dispute is over my changes to the lead, switching from the absurd present tense (as the organization doesn't exist) to the past. You reverted me based on those edits and falsely accused me of original research, which makes no sense at all. Laval (talk) 20:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone who wants to can take a look at the talk and see that I responded to his false accusations against me, and I was totally ignored and they continued to attack me as pushing original research. Laval (talk) 21:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No sources. And there still aren't. He has confabulated the connection to Suharda and Dearborn. Not mentioned in the article as it stands. If it ain't sourced it doesn't belong. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:05, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Do you understand that the article is about the Rockwell organization, which has ceased to exist, yet the lead uses the present tense, indicating that it does still exist? Laval (talk) 21:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Where are your sources that the George Lincoln Rockwell version of the ANP still exists? Laval (talk) 21:08, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Do you also understand that the article has nothing to do with the Suhayda "revival" founded in 2014? Laval (talk) 21:11, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No sources. And there still aren't. He has confabulated the connection to Suharda and Dearborn. Not mentioned in the article as it stands. If it ain't sourced it doesn't belong. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:05, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone who wants to can take a look at the talk and see that I responded to his false accusations against me, and I was totally ignored and they continued to attack me as pushing original research. Laval (talk) 21:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The current article does not as it exists mention the Dearborn, Michigan iteration. Doesn't mention Suhayda either. It could. If there is organizational continuity or discontinuity it should be documented and sourced. You have NEVER provided a source for your contention that the Rockwell organization disbanded. This should be resolved on the talk page, and not at WP:ANI. You have chosen not to respond at the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:54, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I understand you say it ceased to exist. Prove it. We know it existed. Did it disband? Did it transfigure? Did it acquiesce in trademark infringement of its name? If you won't and don't provide a source, any source, then this is just your conjecture, opinion, and, dare I say it, WP:OR or WP:Synth. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- You want me to prove that it doesn't exist anymore? Do you realize that all the sources used there assert that the organization ceased to exist sometime after Rockwell was murdered? What exactly are you demanding? Laval (talk) 21:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Is this for real? This is like demanding I prove the Earth isn't flat or proving that Obama is a US citizen. Laval (talk) 21:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The article makes it very clear, as do the sources used, that Rockwell is dead, he died as a result of a murder many years ago, and the organization became defunct. A revival was attempted by Koehl years later, and the latest attempt by Suhayda in 2014. Neither of those are the same organization as the original. This is a given and it is a fact. Laval (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see where the sources say what you contend. "and the organization became defunct." If you've got a source then we can move on to whether we should mention the Dearborn/Suhayda organization. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:19, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Archbishop Booth
This is a content dispute. L'honorable has asked for advice on how to best handle this, the advice is to get used to people disagreeing with you. We have standards for sourcing and our editors are correct to enforce that. Administrators cannot take sides in such content disputes, please sort it out on the article talk page. HighInBC 02:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please advise how to handle a most time-wasting exercise expended in the last few hours regarding my edits to Lawrence Booth. These disruptions have been initiated by Ealdgyth with support from Hchc2009 and Cassianto. I should be much obliged if Wikipedia Administrators could advise as to how to avoid such an unsavoury turn of events without being bullied off the subject. Many thanks & looking forward to hearing. Best
PS. the origin of the dispute derives from his COA which has been amply referenced by Burke's Extinct and Dormant Baronetcies and at www.exploreyork.org.uk. Please advise. L'honorable (talk) 00:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's documented on my talk page and the article talk page. I've merely requested a source that shows that Lawrence Booth used the coat of arms that is being repeatedly inserted by one user. No sources have been given that show this particular COA was used by Lawrence Booth. I've restrained from taking the OP to WP:AN3 because I'm trying to avoid being nasty or anything. Also trying to get the OP to understand the importance of reliable sourcing. The OP is obviously not very experienced and I would prefer to avoid him being sanctioned for his obvious edit-warring, but its' getting a bit harder to keep explaining what is needed. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Further note - the two sources given above have been addressed on the talk page with the reasons for why they don't support the given COA. The OP hasn't actually addressed the issues with the sources provided, they just keep saying they support the COA when no one else believes they do. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- You may also wish to advise us of this report on our respective talk pages, L'honorable, as per the rules. But then again, you and talk pages don't really mix very well, do you? CassiantoTalk 00:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate you think that this is great fun ganging up on me - but what is required here is a knowledge of heraldry - none of you have demonstrated that & when I tried to put an explanation on the Talk Page it was deleted by edit conflict. Let the Admins decide. Thanks L'honorable (talk) 00:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ganging up on you? I tried to help you! And you have the fucking cheek to bring me here! CassiantoTalk 00:14, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, what is required here is documentation which meets wikipedia standards regarding verifiability. It is no one's job to provide sources which verify a claim for someone else. It is as per WP:BURDEN the responsibility of the party who seeks to add information or keep what had been unsourced information with the required sources to verify that information. I am not sure I have seen that in this case. John Carter (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @John Carter: Thank you John for responding & at least now I trust I shall have some breathing space in which to explain in sufficient detail as required. Firstly is the following reference from the notes of an acclaimed heraldist & painter-stainer of York a good indication of Archbishop Booth's COA: qv: 17/88
- https://www.exploreyork.org.uk/client/en_GB/search/asset/1018068;jsessionid=5E0DE45E24C4B6C3AEF895F5CE0A66A4.enterprise-14000 ? L'honorable (talk) 00:24, 13 May 2016 (UTC). Secondly the image which is hotly disputed is [Coat of arms of Archbishop Lawrence Booth.svg] & his relationship to the Booth family is very well referenced at Burke's Extinct and Dormant Baronetcies. Further explanation as required (although ordinarily this would be more than sufficient & a great deal more so than in most other articles)... please advise - many thanks. L'honorable (talk) 00:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
PS. perhaps I should point out that should an even greater level of proof/reference be required? just let me know - it is simply that when I added this info, it appeared to me at least, to be well above that of similar articles. Many thanks.- As a nonexpert in the field, I can't see any problems with what you have provided above, although I suppose it might theoretically be open to question depending on, for instance, if the coat of arms were not created until after his death or something like that. However, those concerns are generally best dealt with at WP:RSN, which tends to get more people who are aware of all the intracacies involved. John Carter (talk) 01:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @John Carter: thanks John, but the whole point is that John Ward Knowles (unknown to the protagonists) sketched out Archbishop Booth's arms in accordance with the image provided. This as aforementioned can be seen at www.exploreyork.org.uk 17/88. This whole debacle has been blown completely out of proportion - basically by people not looking at the references properly (or not understanding them), who then proceed to become abusive and patronising (towards me - is this good practice?) & even threatening Edit War; this I find wholly unacceptable, unless you think otherwise? L'honorable (talk) 01:22, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
PS. I was at pains to explain at length on the Talk Page (before it got deleted by Edit Conflict) that these Booth arms predate the foundation of the College of Arms in 1484, thus were not "granted" but were recognised "by prescription".
PPS. shall I forget the whole thing, because frankly the behaviour of this trio makes it pretty difficult to make any edits which do not past muster with them (and by now my name will be such mud - with them! - what is the point? - you have rightly focussed on the veracity of my edits, but there is also the open hostility, disruptiveness and threats of Edit War etc..)- I've explained why that source does not support the COA image being added to the article. This is all laid out on the talk page. We don't argue content here - it's supposed to be about behavioral matters. Please see Talk: Lawrence Booth for why those sources do not support the image being added. I did not bring the OP to this page, I've been attempting to reason with them at the article talk page. However, continually readding information when it's been challenged and discussion is being attempted does get very old. (And I'll point out that there was no notice given to the three editors that the OP complained about here - we didn't get notice we were being discussed.) The OP is new to Wikipedia. It would be nice if he'd extend us the same good faith that we're trying to extend to him. I don't think the OP is a problem nor do I bear them any animus. I just wish that policies would be followed, such as using reliable sources that support the information being added. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @John Carter: as you can see three against one is not a winning scenario. My info is utterly correct (& even just now my last edit was bumped out by Edit Conflict). The editor above should study my references in detail before making further comment. L'honorable (talk) 01:38, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @John Carter: thanks John, but the whole point is that John Ward Knowles (unknown to the protagonists) sketched out Archbishop Booth's arms in accordance with the image provided. This as aforementioned can be seen at www.exploreyork.org.uk 17/88. This whole debacle has been blown completely out of proportion - basically by people not looking at the references properly (or not understanding them), who then proceed to become abusive and patronising (towards me - is this good practice?) & even threatening Edit War; this I find wholly unacceptable, unless you think otherwise? L'honorable (talk) 01:22, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- As a nonexpert in the field, I can't see any problems with what you have provided above, although I suppose it might theoretically be open to question depending on, for instance, if the coat of arms were not created until after his death or something like that. However, those concerns are generally best dealt with at WP:RSN, which tends to get more people who are aware of all the intracacies involved. John Carter (talk) 01:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate you think that this is great fun ganging up on me - but what is required here is a knowledge of heraldry - none of you have demonstrated that & when I tried to put an explanation on the Talk Page it was deleted by edit conflict. Let the Admins decide. Thanks L'honorable (talk) 00:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- You may also wish to advise us of this report on our respective talk pages, L'honorable, as per the rules. But then again, you and talk pages don't really mix very well, do you? CassiantoTalk 00:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I see no evidence of "ganging up"--what I see is one editor who is not able to convince three other editors and has resorted to edit warring and going to ANI. Thank you NE Ent for your edit; you beat me to it, and your edit summary is on point. L'honorable, you narrowly escaped being blocked for edit warring. Good luck convincing your opponents. Drmies (talk) 02:00, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well I defer to your judgement (& my point about ganging up is simply that I have hardly been able to type a response without encountering Edit Confict so I don't know how you'd describe that). Not easy to convince anyone of anything in such circumstances. Anyhow - noted & thank you. L'honorable (talk) 02:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- When Cassianto writes "You was Bold" in an edit summary [68], you know he's all worked up. EEng 13:12, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
Legal threats, WP:NOTHERE
Wikijan2016 blocked for making legal threats. Omni Flames let's talk about it 02:24, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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- Wikijan2016 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Bellevue Education (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
- Link to closed 3RR discussion, here which was closed on May 4 with a warning:
- Result: The filer is warned not to make statements that could appear to be legal threats: "the applicable processes will be taken with wikipedia to ensure wikipedia is not misused to promote incorrect information". There was no 3RR violation by Daithidibarra. Since the filer, Wikijan2016, does 'exhibit a singularity of purpose' and has no edits outside this topic it's possible that a posting at WP:COIN would be justified. EdJohnston (talk) 05:19, 4 May 2016 (UTC)"
I got involved with this because the other editors took Ed's advice and filed a COIN case. In the midst of trying to work through that, Wikijan:
- gingerly raised the legality of edits by the editors here here'
- forthrightly raised the legality again here;
- Said "My problem with all of this is the moral and legal aspect of someone posting content in a certain tone for their own agenda or to promote their political views. It is morally wrong - not to mention in this case also legally." And then asked me "Where I can file a complaint of this user in terms of their moral and legal wrongdoings on wikipedia?" here.
They disclosed that they have some sort of personal relationship with people at Bellevue, but their COI coupled with their sense of whatever they think is "right" is so strong that they cannot deal with content based on policies and guidelines, but need to keep referring to morals, and unfortunately, legality, and most importantly ignored the warning they were given by Ed.
User:EdJohnston or some other admin, this user is WP:NOTHERE and keeps bringing up the legal wrongdoing of the other editors they are are disputing with. Please indef them. Thanks. Jytdog (talk)
- The request at WP:AIV has ben redirected here. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Indeed. This sort of intimidation, legal or otherwise, compromises our neutrality. HighInBC 14:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
My TP
See below; sock blocked, TP reversed. Thanks to all. And Bacon sandwiches all round! (non-admin closure) Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 13:15, 13 May 2016 (UTC) |
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However accurate some may think it is in spirit :p can an admin sort it please? Many thanks. Attacked by sock. Again. Cheers, Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks Zzuuzz. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, you're in good company: "Danish pig User:Favonian not to vandalism!" Drmies (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm honoured- oink oink! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 14:57, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
User Francis Winestone
Just the daily sock from one of our regular customers, already dispatched. He really doesn't like me – or bacon. Favonian (talk) 12:19, 13 May 2016 (UTC) |
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I'm not sure what's going on here, but I think Fortuna may appreciate some eyes:
User Francis Winestone has moved Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi to "Danish Pig"[69]
Users informed. Sorry to be short, but it seems a bit weird. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:03, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- And many thanks User:Chaheel Riens for looking out :) Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:06, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- And we give a congratulatory plate of Danish Bacon to Zzuuzz, and one to good old Favonian. Drmies (talk) 14:55, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Content removal
IP warned for edit warring. Omni Flames let's talk about it 10:10, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Over at Visa requirements for Serbian citizens article some IP is removing valid content with references. Short line that is being removed is that the passport that was used previously gave access to only 18 countries vs. current biometric passport that gives visa-free access to 115 countries. This is referenced content which is not really controversial as there is another line in the article that says it's one of the most improved passports over the past 10 years. The user removing it does not seem to understand the notion of original research and verifiable sources and use of references so one of the removals was for example with edit summary stating that the old document was "one of the most influential". Anyway here are the diffs diff diff diff. I can't do much due to the 3RR but content removal for no reason should be dealt with. Thanks.--Twofortnights (talk) 16:40, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- They have been warned, and, if they revert once again without starting a talk page discussion, they should be blocked.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:52, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Cruks
Cruks is officially warned that reverting a user's talk page to reinstate a warning template can result in a block from editing. This doesn't require breaching WP:3RR. When a user removes a template, it is assumed (and is accepted as proof) that they have read it. Reverting it back is considered disruptive editing. The other details have been taken care of by CambridgeBayWeather, so closing with just this warning. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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@Cruks: is violating BLP on Renato Sanches and is disrupting my talk page. SLBedit (talk) 18:02, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
User continues to disrupt my talk page by reverting me all the time. SLBedit (talk) 18:08, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Fully protected the page until it gets sorted. Cruks you need to stop edit warring at User talk:SLBedit. They are allowed to remove anything they want from their talk page. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:13, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- And I reverted back the Sanches page to before the edit war. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:14, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- The edit war did not start with my correct edits, instead later by the other user. Please read my reference carefully. Cruks (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Two of the three are in Portuguese and I don't trust Google Translate. The third source, here states 2006 which you changed to 2008. So you both need to sort it out on the talk page. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:32, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- WP:BRD suggest that reverting a bold edit may be acceptable in some cases anyway. The best solution is to achieve some consensus via whatever WP:Dispute resolution method you need rather than trying to argue who started the edit war or what's the correct version to be protected. Nil Einne (talk) 20:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Two of the three are in Portuguese and I don't trust Google Translate. The third source, here states 2006 which you changed to 2008. So you both need to sort it out on the talk page. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 18:32, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- The edit war did not start with my correct edits, instead later by the other user. Please read my reference carefully. Cruks (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Cruks, you are wrong. Once you put the warning (and I'm not even looking at the warning's value for the moment), that was enough. When SLBedit removed it, the user was acknowledging its receipt. Your repeated reverting it back in was dumb. Knock it off. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:28, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Sources deleted with no explanation.
Tempest in a teapot and lots of blame to go around. DVdm, you reverted twice without explanation and could have moved the info to the proper page for ethnicity or explained it better. Mr. IP, you could have used links instead of a long page worth of text, which is annoying. Oshwah has offered to help Mr. IP and frankly that is the best solution of all. Even though this happened on a talk page and involves some less than perfect behavior by two parties, this is really a content issue since that is the crux of the issue. None of the less than perfect behavior is sanctionable. I suggest starting on Oshwah's talk page and moving from there. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:56, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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As the title suggests. I found a few sources and posted them. I'm being reverted for posting sources on talk page without explanation. here's my edit. I actually spent few days searching and translating a newspaper article from 1892. That source was not previously known, so I think it might be interesting for other editors to see a contemporary source. I really don't see the problem with my post, and I can't accept my days work being deleted without an explanation. 141.138.22.91 (talk) 21:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm also pointing to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.138.22.91 (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- The removal of content was due to the article being reverted to a previous revision from earlier today, and because of vandalism being added to the article by multiple users. The removal of the content looks legitimate; if there is good content that you feel should be added back to the article, please message me on my talk page and let me know (while also showing me what you believe was legitimate), and I'll be more than happy to assist you with your concerns. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 21:40, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- There was no multiple users. The only one who had posted today was me. My ip had changed, but that was all me. Because of the ip changes I had some trouble signing my post. There was no vandalism. I just posted 3 sources. 141.138.22.91 (talk) 21:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
I've asked the editor why he had deleted my comment and he had deleted my question with and edit summary:"Block evasion and harrassment" [70]. I have an opposite opinion. If he hadn't deleted my post I wouldn't now be spending time dealing with this. I have other articles to edit where my posts are not being deleted without an explanation. 141.138.22.91 (talk) 21:52, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- If you're evading a block, you shouldn't be editing at all. And it's easy to see why that gigantic essay was deleted from the talk page. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I really don't see why it was deleted. That's why I asked the editor but he ignored me. Because it was gigantic? Can we format it then? Those are 3 newspaper articles and I can't help they are long. I wanted them posted in entirety, since they can't be found anywhere. I actually went and searched for archives for the first one. I had a few days of work translating it from 19th century Serbian Cyrillic to English. If they are too long we can format it, but why to delete them? 141.138.22.91 (talk) 22:49, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Quoting the entire thing sounds like a copyright issue. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:03, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I really don't see why it was deleted. That's why I asked the editor but he ignored me. Because it was gigantic? Can we format it then? Those are 3 newspaper articles and I can't help they are long. I wanted them posted in entirety, since they can't be found anywhere. I actually went and searched for archives for the first one. I had a few days of work translating it from 19th century Serbian Cyrillic to English. If they are too long we can format it, but why to delete them? 141.138.22.91 (talk) 22:49, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- On the talk page? A 19th century newspaper? Ok, this is really out of my knowledge. I just wanted to point to that newspaper articles. I posted links so everyone can find those articles, but they aren't written on English so I translated them (well, the first and the last one). Is there an any other way to point to an 19th century article which is not written on English to the English speaking editors here on English Wikipedia? If the problem is quoting the whole article I can find a few quotes from the article and delete the rest (although the rest of the article might be interesting to other editors). 141.138.22.91 (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Fellow editors, before wasting your time on this, be forewarned that this is more ethnicity-of-Tesla nonsense. EEng 23:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- See this conversation on my talk page. It sounds like I may be getting involved in something with a not-so-great past here, per EEng's statement above. For now, I'm going to give this user the benefit of the doubt until any proof presents itself regarding trolling, socking, etc. - I'm looking into his sources, as well as the article talk page conversation. Is anyone available who would like to assist me with this? I understand if nobody is willing, given that this subject may have a bad past. I'll do what I can; someone's gotta do it I guess. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Anything in particular you want on your headstone? EEng 00:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC) [FBDB] Note: Not a death threat or other blockable offense, thanks.
- You are going to deep and it seems that you are unaware of that. I simply want to post 3 sources and that's it. Why should I be prevented doing that regardless of the past that topic has? I'm not aware that Wikipedia states that sources can't be posted to a topic with bad past. I'm also warning you not to get involved over there, where it is even forbidden to post sources that someone else doesn't like or considers "nonsense", let alone ban ip editors who are not people. On any other topic I would have no problem at all reporting and editor who keeps deletes sources without any explanation and look how much time I had lost with this one. I've barely touched on other articles I edit today. 141.138.22.91 (talk) 23:33, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Two eyes are better than one. Three eyes are better than two. Plus, it helps the process go quicker if we have multiple users looking into it. Give me some time; like I said, I'm busy with some other projects at the moment. I'll look into these sources and let you know about any issues or concerns as soon as I can. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- "Three eyes are better than two"???? What is this? The Land of the Cyclopean Cyclopedians? EEng 00:04, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hahaha... that made me laugh :-). It's okay; I'm going to check the sources, and determine if there are copyright issues, and (hopefully) leave it at that. We'll see.... :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 01:48, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- "Three eyes are better than two"???? What is this? The Land of the Cyclopean Cyclopedians? EEng 00:04, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Two eyes are better than one. Three eyes are better than two. Plus, it helps the process go quicker if we have multiple users looking into it. Give me some time; like I said, I'm busy with some other projects at the moment. I'll look into these sources and let you know about any issues or concerns as soon as I can. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe it's nonsense to you, but why should I be forbidden to post sources because it's a nonsense to you? If more people had posted sources like this we wouldn't have such disputes over there, and it seems to me that you are advocating for less sources. And, this is not more "ethnicity-of-Tesla nonsense". If you want that, go to talk page over there. This is about me being prevent from posting a perfectly valid sources with no explanation at all from the person who keeps deleting them, regardless of the topic to which I had posted them. Wikipedia is not restrictive to which topic someone can post sources. I had, in good faith, stopped reverting his acts of vandalism, although I have every right to revert such acts. How would you feel If I went to the topic you edit, delete your perfectly valid sources and say that your interests are "nonsense" and that you can't post those sources? 141.138.22.91 (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- What ID did you used to edit under? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- See this conversation on my talk page. It sounds like I may be getting involved in something with a not-so-great past here, per EEng's statement above. For now, I'm going to give this user the benefit of the doubt until any proof presents itself regarding trolling, socking, etc. - I'm looking into his sources, as well as the article talk page conversation. Is anyone available who would like to assist me with this? I understand if nobody is willing, given that this subject may have a bad past. I'll do what I can; someone's gotta do it I guess. :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
@Baseball Bugs:, FYI, per the banner message on top of Talk:Nikola Tesla, discussions about Tesla's ethnicity belong on the subtalkpage Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity. That subtalkpage was recently semi-protected by HighInBC to prevent this (indef blocked, and therefore block-evading) person to continue disrupting it. You can check the history, the archives, the collapsed sections, and the section Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity#IP editor. That is why I repeatedly removed the rant from Talk:Nikola Tesla, and requested semi-protection, which was somewhat surprisingly declined by user CambridgeBayWeather. Perhaps I should have given a longer explanation at the RPP. Sorry about that. - DVdm (talk) 08:43, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then you are free to transfer my post to the correct talk page. But don't delete it without any explanation and by ignoring my inquiry on your talk page by calling it a harassment? You are repeatedly deleting my sources with no explanation and it's a harassment from my part to ask you to explain why are you doing that? That's a very strange logic. I've stopped reverting your vandalism because I didn't want to be disruptive, and if you haven't noticed, your report to protect the page was dismissed. [71]. Apparently, other editors do not see anything wrong with posting sources (what a surprise). You are a long term editor and the only thing that is surprising is that you are acting like a vandal. 89.164.172.23 (talk) 10:15, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- But why would we believe you when you yourself are in clear violation a block? You are that vandal that goes around vandalizing pages by deleting sources that go against your POV. Your acts of vandalism are recorded in [this] report from yesterday. 89.164.248.16 (talk) 10:47, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- There you go, I just showed you how unfounded allegations work (well mine version was not so unfounded since your acts of vandalism are recorded in the referenced report). If you deduce that I'm a sock of a blocked disruptive user from me posting sources (as if that is disruptive), then I deduce you are a sock of a vandal that goes around deleting sources and comments he doesn't like based on your recorded acts of vandalism in the referenced report. Like you, I also don't have further comment to that kind of unfounded and bogus allegations. Unlike you, I've already left that to administrators' hands (instead to revert your acts of vandalism and engage in an edit warring) and your request for page protection was already dismissed yesterday. I haven't yet posted those sources again since one of the editors was kind enough to look at them and see if there are copyright issues. I'm not in a hurry to post them. They have been waited to be posted from 1892, few days more won't make a big difference. In the meanwhile I don't intent to waste my time with your bogus allegations. I participate in other discussions where I'm not being distracted by a vandal. 89.164.248.16 (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
DARYLMATMAT
Blocked by Ponyo. Omni Flames let's talk about it 01:16, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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DARYLMATMAT (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) keeps creating articles on non-notable figures and seems to be only interested in creating pages about some book/whatever called "Another Story". Can something be done about them? Feinoha Talk 23:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I already blocked them.--Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Fomenka
Handled by Ymblanter. Arguing semantics is pointless. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:52, 14 May 2016 (UTC) |
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A very persistent IP-hopping user page vandal/troll has either compromised the named account User:Fomenka, or slipped up and used their own account.
Background: A series of IPs (virtually all geolocating to the same Canadian city) have been edit warring since late February to incorrectly state that the Canadian Cadbury Caramilk a chocolate bar rather than a candy bar. Under Canadian Food Inspection Agency labelling requirements [72] only solid chocolate bars may be labelled as "chocolate" bars. The Cadbury Caramilk is not a solid chocolate bar and thus its wrapper calls it a candy bar.
IPs making the edits that have led to the current long-term semi-protection of the article:
- Special:Contributions/142.233.200.24 (on 3rd block)
- Special:Contributions/206.45.41.10 (blocked once)
- Special:Contributions/184.69.46.158 (blocked once)
- Special:Contributions/216.55.216.237
- Special:Contributions/142.233.200.21 (on 3rd block)
Three of these IPs have also trolled or vandalized the user talk pages of editors who have undone the Cadbury edits, User:Canterbury Tail (by 142.233.200.21 and 142.233.200.24) [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] and User:Meters (by 184.69.46.158, 142.233.200.24, and 142.233.200.21 [82]] [83]] [84] [85][86] [87] [88]) The article was protected on April 18, and the user page trolling on my page started the same day. When I had my user talk page protected the IPs switched to daily trolling of my unprotected talk page (by 184.69.46.158, 206.45.41.10, 216.55.216.237, and new IPs 24.114.41.69, 209.171.88.64, 184.68.82.250, 192.219.0.74, 24.114.22.58, and 216.55.216.254 [on 2nd block] ) with [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102] [103]
Fomenka made an edit to my protected talk page [104] with an edit summary almost identical to two previous IP edits [105] [106] and then immediately undid the edit with an identical time stamp [107]. Six minutes later Fomenka posted to his talk page stating "//?? vandalism from my account? Will figure out then return" [108], but later seemingly contradicted this in later posts [109] and [110] by claiming that he or she was editing Wikipedia from work and left the account logged in, caught someone vandalizing my account and reverted it. Sure, it's possible, but I find it implausible considering that Fomenka averages about 12 edits a year (a double digit total in six years) and no edits at all for the four days prior to the attack on my page. It simply does not sound like an account that was likely to have been left open. It's also rather interesting that after more than 3 weeks of daily harassment the IPs have disappeared from my page since Fomenka's edit. I think this account is behind the IPs' edits, and that it should be blocked for block evasion (216.55.216.254 is the most recent active block) and harassment. Meters (talk) 08:48, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I indefblocked the account since at the very least it is compromized, otherwise it is a block evasion (one of the IPs was blocked, and the block still did not expire).--Ymblanter (talk) 09:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter: For what it's worth, I think your use of "at the very least" is inaccurate. Aren't compromised (read: shared) accounts technically worse than accounts that were used to evade a block? Block evasion can, at least in theory, be forgiven by the community (or even any random admin), but shared accounts are not allowed, right? Of course, I'm not saying it was a bad block or anything - that would be ridiculous. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Block evasion means the account is indeffed, period (this is a sock, not a sockmaster). Compromised means that the owner, in principle, can still gain control over the account, and then the account can be unblocked.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- But it's only a sockpuppet, as opposed to a sockmaster, if the account has also been compromised/hacked, which seems pretty unlikely. It seems pretty unusual to refer to an account that predates an IP's block by several years as a sock whose sole purpose was to evade the IP's block. It would only be a block evasion sock if it was created (or, at least in theory, hacked) with the specific intention of evading a block, but in this case the timelime is reversed. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:42, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Block evasion means the account is indeffed, period (this is a sock, not a sockmaster). Compromised means that the owner, in principle, can still gain control over the account, and then the account can be unblocked.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter: For what it's worth, I think your use of "at the very least" is inaccurate. Aren't compromised (read: shared) accounts technically worse than accounts that were used to evade a block? Block evasion can, at least in theory, be forgiven by the community (or even any random admin), but shared accounts are not allowed, right? Of course, I'm not saying it was a bad block or anything - that would be ridiculous. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Toby at Cyberlawpractice
CU blocked. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 00:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Toby at Cyberlawpractice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
They make the following disclosure on their userpage here; "My declared Conflict of Interest account for IPR, privacy or defamation related discussion interventions (respecting and acknowledging WMF policies)."
All this person has done is hassle User:Risker over a block she made, here: User_talk:Risker#Block_of_User:Luridaxiom, in a somewhat legally threatening way; they ~appear~ to be trying to somehow legally represent the blocked users.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a WP:SOCK and think a CU would be useful, but more than anything, I don't see how this account can function in WP in any way other than to be legally threatening to other users, and I don't see how this account is here to build an encyclopedia. I am suggesting they be indeffed per WP:NOTHERE and WP:NLT. Jytdog (talk) 00:50, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Unsourced genres and categories
Mattmeine (talk · contribs) has been engaging in adding unsourced genres and categories to articles, as well as removing useful comments. They were warned several times and today I gave them another final warning but they still persist. Opencooper (talk) 05:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone? Opencooper (talk) 19:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Opencooper This behavior bears all of the hallmarks of CensoredScribe (talk·contribs). Unfortunately there hasn't been an SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CensoredScribe/Archive for some time so I don't know whether there are "stale" problems or not. I seem to remember that there was another ANI thread several months ago where it was determined that SC had returned but I have no idea how to find it. MarnetteDTalk 20:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm they do have the categorizations in common as well as similar topic areas. Regardless, Mattmeine is still doing it; I'd appreciate if an admin could step in to help them cool down and to maybe even attempt discussing their changes. (though if you look at the diffs you'll see how outlandish some of them are such as categorizing Pokemon as horror and suspense...) Opencooper (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Even so, this user should be blocked on behavior alone. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Also, MarnetteD, this the ani you were looking for? Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive913#User:Schmidt-austin. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 03:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- That is the one EvergreenFir I do appreciate your taking the time to search for it. MarnetteD Talk 04:19, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm they do have the categorizations in common as well as similar topic areas. Regardless, Mattmeine is still doing it; I'd appreciate if an admin could step in to help them cool down and to maybe even attempt discussing their changes. (though if you look at the diffs you'll see how outlandish some of them are such as categorizing Pokemon as horror and suspense...) Opencooper (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Opencooper This behavior bears all of the hallmarks of CensoredScribe (talk·contribs). Unfortunately there hasn't been an SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CensoredScribe/Archive for some time so I don't know whether there are "stale" problems or not. I seem to remember that there was another ANI thread several months ago where it was determined that SC had returned but I have no idea how to find it. MarnetteDTalk 20:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Vivvt
There was some problem on Kashibai and an user reverted my edit. I started a discussion on the talk page but this user, neither discussed anything nor gave reasons but went on to revert my edit. Please, take a look.Krish Talk 13:06, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Good. Your behaviour was unacceptable. Taking your dispute to the talk page is far better than launching personal attacks like you did [111]. --Yamla (talk) 13:14, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Please note that the discussion of whether your edit was an improvement or not has been completely lost. I have no opinion on the edit itself but agree that your use of inflammatory terms is not acceptable, and is the reason why no one is discussing your edit. Please rethink your choice of language and explain why your edit is an improvement to the article.--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:19, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- If I said a thing to A, why would B revert my edit? It doesn't make any sense. If I go and revert back then I'll be blocked because of 3RR rule? How disgusting is that? I had given my reasons on the talk page and the reasons are valid but hey, I did a wrong thing? My words were caused by that user's (Dharmadhyaksha) constant bad faith on that article. Check history and you will find.KrishTalk 13:23, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm glad you are aware of WP:3RR. Please also make sure you are aware of WP:NPA. "My words were caused by that user's constant bad faith on that article." Maybe so, but if you make personal attacks again, you may be blocked. In any case, there's an ongoing discussion on the article's talk page. I don't believe any further action is warranted at this time. --Yamla (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a case of WP: Own and nothing else. He reverted my ediys wiithout any reasons or explainations, which shows that he owns the article. My reasons are valid. So please give a better reply and an idea to deal with this.KrishTalk 13:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- I put the content back as it was earlier before this particular user thought it to be controversial/unappropriated to the article. I agree that that edit summary was missing and thats because I am using a tool and it was a mobile edit. I dont understand how a single revert warrants for ANI. This is my single (most likely) edit to the article. I dont know how it becomes a case of WP:OWN. Are we becoming so childish in taking such edits/reverts to the board? Simple hopeless! - Vivvt (Talk) 13:52, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a case of WP: Own and nothing else. He reverted my ediys wiithout any reasons or explainations, which shows that he owns the article. My reasons are valid. So please give a better reply and an idea to deal with this.KrishTalk 13:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm glad you are aware of WP:3RR. Please also make sure you are aware of WP:NPA. "My words were caused by that user's constant bad faith on that article." Maybe so, but if you make personal attacks again, you may be blocked. In any case, there's an ongoing discussion on the article's talk page. I don't believe any further action is warranted at this time. --Yamla (talk) 13:29, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- If I said a thing to A, why would B revert my edit? It doesn't make any sense. If I go and revert back then I'll be blocked because of 3RR rule? How disgusting is that? I had given my reasons on the talk page and the reasons are valid but hey, I did a wrong thing? My words were caused by that user's (Dharmadhyaksha) constant bad faith on that article. Check history and you will find.KrishTalk 13:23, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Krish has a history of making personal attacks and has been previously blocked in Dec 2012 for this edit summary and this comment and again in Oct 2013. Not that these two incidences should be considered in current case, but am mentioning them to show that the user is very much aware of WP's NPA policy.
The user still continues to make PAs as noted below. (Note: I am usually very tolerant about such PAs as many IPs and newbies come barging on my talk page. Some users and admins have been kind enough to revert/revdel them on their own. In case some of these are not really considered PAs, as these are considered case-by-case with no fixed definition, please ignore those ones.)
- Towards me
- "This article was reviewed by editors 10x better than you so fuck yourself hypocrite Dharmadhyaksha-or adharmdhyaksha"
- "Use at least little bit of sense"
- "Would you please stop being a JERK?"
- "I know my job better than you Dharam (your work is just opposite of your name)."
- "Dharm, do you want to hear F bombs from me because it's is irritating me. My work was to nominate....this is not my problem if an idiot reviewer didn't found mistakes. Its not my fault. You are what? You call yourself an Indian? Really shame on you."
- The Jerk Barnstar: I award you this for being a Jerk like always
I am not sure if I should point PAs made against other editors, as it should be their case to take it up. But these are too many to ignore. Individual editors can of course comment here and ask to disregard the below mentioned comments.
- Towards others
- "Are you dumb? "
- "Who the hell made you an administratyor?"
- "You are so pathetic. Now onwards my eye will be on you and I will tell you what is its like to get punished for others fault."
- "I should have known that you are a hypocrite and a big time manipulator."
- "You need to look here before talking and adding shit to that article I am more experienced than you here and know much better than you. You don't tell me what I should do."
- "Thank you Vensatry for getting your nose into the matter, which has nothing to do with you."
- "Get the Fuck out of my user page"
Am hence also pinging the involved editors @EdJohnston, Human3015, Carl Waxman, Vensatry, and Arjann: §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 13:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- What I do on my talk page is none of your business. If someone will threaten me than what sjould be my response. By the way, how about your behaviour? Your behaviour is not very good and its obvious by these hate you have received from lot of people and not only from me.
"You are being an idiot." - Maunus "..idiots like you.." - Maunus "You're being ridiculous." - Calvin999 "Don't like his stuffy attitude." - Bonkers The Clown "Your friend (User:Ratnakar.kulkarni) is as bad as you, dishonest and evasive." - Leaky caldron "..I hate Dharmadhyaksha and Vivvt for their sheer stupidity." - Vensatry "This article was reviewed by editors 10x better than you so fuck yourself hypocrite Dharmadhyaksha-or adharmdhyaksha" - Krish! "Use at least little bit of sense" - Krish! "Would you please stop being a JERK?" - Krish! "I know my job better than you Dharam (your work is just opposite of your name)." - Krish! "Dharm, do you want to hear F bombs from me because it's is irritating me. My work was to nominate....this is not my problem if an idiot reviewer didn't found mistakes. Its not my fault. You are what? You call yourself an Indian? Really shame on you." - Krish! "...I have never come across a user who is as stupid as you....You and user Vivvt are pathetic and put other users in a harrowing time. I guess, you should stop chasing users and their work. Rather spend some time in improving yourself. Dumb." - Arjann
.Please tell why all these people have had problems with you? And, pointing out my previous maistakes has nothing to do with this incident of your beloved friend. Both of you are players and both work together.Krish Talk 14:19, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Krish!, drop it. Your recent comments are over the line, especially this morning's "barnstar" and your edit summary calling another user a moron. If I see any more breaches of our civility policy, I will block you. This is quite clearly a content dispute, discussion should happen on the talk page of the article, not grumbling here. Dharmadhyaksha, you are complaining largely about issues over 4 months old and he was blocked (for edit warring) around that time, I appreciate that it looks like things are building up here again for you, and I will watch the article, but you need to focus on the content dispute at hand rather than past behaviour. WormTT(talk) 14:28, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well thank you, this was a bad comment i agree I shouldn't have done that. I had stopped fighting and would rather focus on my work here. This is waht I'm trying to tell this user that putting prevbious problems had nothing to do with this. But he went on and on. Plus, this guy is not ready to discuss and would revert things like he owns the article. I would like your help on this matter.KrishTalk 14:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Krish!, you were a hair's breadth from being blocked for that barnstar - I certainly see why Dharmadhyaksha brought up the past, it's your past behaviour which time and again is beyond the pale. You need to be doing the legwork here and you need to drop your complaints. I will be watching, but only as an administrator for poor behaviour. I will not be participating in the dispute. WormTT(talk) 14:39, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...and any specific reason I was brought to ANI? - Vivvt (Talk) 15:26, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- User has gone on a wikibreak, for good. --QEDK (T ☕ C) 18:37, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- You never know. Some editors take a wikibreak and never return to editing. Others' long wikibreak ends up just lasting just a week. LizRead! Talk! 23:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- This isn't the first time this is happening, a few of Kirsh!'s previous accounts were blocked for similar behavior. Another incident happened last year that I was aware of; unfortunately, I took the step of page protection instead of blocking as explained at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Prashantlovehimself/Archive. —SpacemanSpiff 02:41, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- This retiring-leaving-coming-back-again drama is not new with the Indian editors. This keeps happening with some of them followed by Dont-leave-us-come-back-we-miss-you-glad-you-are-back stuff! This archives nothing than talk pages full of emotional talks. - Vivvt (Talk) 03:20, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- What? Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Prashantlovehimself/Archive what is this?, I saw this for the first time. SpacemanSpiff just because some editor has a similar name and likes similar subject, doesn't mean it was me who edited from those accounts. I came to know about wikipedia in 2012 (anyone can edit it). and I started writing In MY City article. My first visit to wikipedia was 2012, and I don't need to cry to prove that. I hope people on wikipedia could see the good side of an user, who despite his busy student life have given so much time here.KrishTalk 03:43, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- The fact that you have contributed content has prevented many from taking admin action when they should have. Your behavior on this account and your previous accounts has been disruptive; in addition to the issue of constant personal attacks against other editors there's also the problem of WP:NPOV issues where you seem to be taking your Priyanka Chopra fandom far too seriously for an encyclopaedia, not just on that particular article but also on other articles. —SpacemanSpiff 03:47, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- A fandom? I have edited and written other FLs as well and had planned to. By the way, I don't have any problems with NPOV and I support it. KIndly please try to understand, I reported this user because he reverted an edit, when i had already opnened a discussion. I know it was too small to come her, I apolagize, sorry. Now please close this discussion I have my studies to do and I'm taking a long break for a year. Thank you.Krish Talk 03:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- The fact that you have contributed content has prevented many from taking admin action when they should have. Your behavior on this account and your previous accounts has been disruptive; in addition to the issue of constant personal attacks against other editors there's also the problem of WP:NPOV issues where you seem to be taking your Priyanka Chopra fandom far too seriously for an encyclopaedia, not just on that particular article but also on other articles. —SpacemanSpiff 03:47, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- What? Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Prashantlovehimself/Archive what is this?, I saw this for the first time. SpacemanSpiff just because some editor has a similar name and likes similar subject, doesn't mean it was me who edited from those accounts. I came to know about wikipedia in 2012 (anyone can edit it). and I started writing In MY City article. My first visit to wikipedia was 2012, and I don't need to cry to prove that. I hope people on wikipedia could see the good side of an user, who despite his busy student life have given so much time here.KrishTalk 03:43, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- This retiring-leaving-coming-back-again drama is not new with the Indian editors. This keeps happening with some of them followed by Dont-leave-us-come-back-we-miss-you-glad-you-are-back stuff! This archives nothing than talk pages full of emotional talks. - Vivvt (Talk) 03:20, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- This isn't the first time this is happening, a few of Kirsh!'s previous accounts were blocked for similar behavior. Another incident happened last year that I was aware of; unfortunately, I took the step of page protection instead of blocking as explained at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Prashantlovehimself/Archive. —SpacemanSpiff 02:41, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- You never know. Some editors take a wikibreak and never return to editing. Others' long wikibreak ends up just lasting just a week. LizRead! Talk! 23:17, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- User has gone on a wikibreak, for good. --QEDK (T ☕ C) 18:37, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...and any specific reason I was brought to ANI? - Vivvt (Talk) 15:26, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
- Krish!, you were a hair's breadth from being blocked for that barnstar - I certainly see why Dharmadhyaksha brought up the past, it's your past behaviour which time and again is beyond the pale. You need to be doing the legwork here and you need to drop your complaints. I will be watching, but only as an administrator for poor behaviour. I will not be participating in the dispute. WormTT(talk) 14:39, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
Open an ANI discussion without having a solid ground and now wants to close the discussion because he has studies to do! Other people are marely wasting their time on WP. Admins, please note that this particular user shall not be taken seriously for anything and everything that involves other editors. - Vivvt (Talk) 04:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sudden studies or WP:BOOMERANG effect? If I get time I am sure I will find many such wikibreaks that have aligned with non-favourable circumstances just to avoid blocks and bans. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:30, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- You wish. LOL. This post I wrote on 23 April 2016 dont show its sudden. Check facts before accusing someone of something.Krish Talk 05:41, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
If you're going on a wiki break, go on the wiki break. Don't continue editing under the guise that you have 'studies' to do. It's one or the other, and it's quickly approaching the point where a boomerang is in order. --Tarage (talk) 07:11, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Agreed. Krish!, you were editing in the past hour which undermines your claim that you are taking a long wikibreak. LizRead! Talk! 15:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Liz Well, I'm still editing because I have an ongoing discussion about the disputed article. So, Isn't that obvious that I'll be editing? Now please close this discussion as I'm sure the discussion on the article's talk page is enough. Thank you for your time folks.KrishTalk 15:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Why should it be closed without any action against you? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 17:55, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well this is May 2016, if you want to take action for what i did in 2015 and before then i am very sorry that's not going to happen and I think you are trying to provoke me to do something with your texts but i am not interested to fight with you or anyone. This is not a place where you engage in random fights. This is an encyclopedia its better we respect this site.Krish Talk 19:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Why should it be closed without any action against you? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 17:55, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- Liz Well, I'm still editing because I have an ongoing discussion about the disputed article. So, Isn't that obvious that I'll be editing? Now please close this discussion as I'm sure the discussion on the article's talk page is enough. Thank you for your time folks.KrishTalk 15:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
- "The Jerk Barnstar: I award you this for being a Jerk like always." 08:03, 1 May 2016
- "moron Dharmadhyaksha" ...." dumb moron" 07:56, 1 May 2016
- "She was never criticised you MORON" 07:32, 1 May 2016
- "Dharmadhyaksha, everything was resolved at the FLC, so your edits are questionable. Plus, Now I'll be checking on you and I know some of your articles require that template and Wait then watch IM coming" 07:52, 25 January 2016
- "This article was reviewed by editors 10x better than you so fuck yourself hypocrite Dharmadhyaksha-or adharmdhyaksha" 13:21, 22 January 2016
May 2016 stuff... §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Didn't you already had mentioned above? and the administrator had already addressed them? Give me a break. Bye Bye......KrishTalk 06:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Admins should take this into account that his behavioural pattern has not changed over the years and he keeps abusing other editors with the strong words. Involved editors have seen this I-won't-do-this drama several times and its really frustrating that its always the other editor who is asked behave with civility. - Vivvt (Talk) 06:54, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Given that the
5edits were posted 2 days ago, it's obvious Krish! is unrepentant with regards to personal attacks. Those should certainly attract a block, preferably an indefinite one. Blackmane (talk) 12:03, 3 May 2016 (UTC)- Dear Blackmane only three edits were posted 2 days ago so kindly correct yourself. I don't think i deserve a block. I have contributed so much here. I have written an FA, 9 FLs and 10 GAs and am still working on plenty of subjects including two other FLs and another FA. You can't just take away everything from me. It's not like only I had fights or arguments here. Everyone does. By the way, did i tell you this user (Dharmdhyaksha) has a long history of interfaring with my work or should i say had a problem with me for reasons unkown to me. He tried to take me down by nominating two of my GAs, few days after they passed and he was criticised by everyone and the GAs were kept as GAs.
- Didn't you already had mentioned above? and the administrator had already addressed them? Give me a break. Bye Bye......KrishTalk 06:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/7 Khoon Maaf/1
- Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Huma Qureshi (actress)/1
Plus, he would add a maintenance templates to all my FLs, would remove well-sourced texts, tag the articles with Provide secondary souces, even where everything was sourced perfectly. So tell me what you guys learn about him. What does it mean when you do these kind of things. I still don't know what is his problem with me. My above reactions were for his this behaviour,which I think was wrong as all of my FLs and GAs were reviewed by some established and experienced reviewers. So tell me now.Krish Talk 05:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- As mentioned by SpacemanSpiff "The fact that you have contributed content has prevented many from taking admin action when they should have." However, this dos not give you any authority to abuse people. Everybody's trying to do something or other by taking time from their real time. You have no right to insult that time. I dont see a point why should please take your abuse for no good reason. Does not matter if you are admin or wiki founder or feature content writer or a newbie, people are not here to get abused. - Vivvt (Talk) 08:32, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Also, he is not retiring or taking any break for studies. He just nominated another list for FLC. - Vivvt (Talk) 10:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I've corrected my post to reflect this. However, the points still stands that continuing to attack another editor while your previous attacks against other editors was being discussed at ANI is just mind boggling foolishness. Editors get into conflict, this is true, but for the most part it is over content what you have done is made it personal. Regardless of what you have contributed to the project, this is unacceptable. Editors that have contributed 10 times what you have, have been site banned for just this sort of thing. You are very lucky you haven't been indefinitely blocked already. Blackmane (talk) 14:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Proposal
Look, It`s time to stop beating around the bush about blocking Krish. I propose an indefinite ban on Krish for long term personal attacks against multiple users, as shown above. Happy Attack Dog (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support as proposer, this needs to stop and action needs to be taken Happy Attack Dog (talk) 17:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose - This reeks of punitive blocking, and I do not believe that the edit summaries thereof rise to the level of an indef. Indef blocks should be reserved for outright vandalism. Such is not the case here.--WaltCip (talk) 02:12, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support I had left a warning on the user's talk page a while ago for making some arrogantly abusive personal attacks towards another user. See [112]. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 06:05, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Did I tell you this user is friends with Dharmadhyaksha? Yes they are. By the way please tell me if its right to remove well-sourced stuffs from articles which are featured and everything. Just because he didn't like the way article was?
- And, do you think this is not a personal attack to me Krish! You need to complete your studies. For our sake. You were not pinged in that message because i knew it would not be easy for you to comprehend it. LOL. I will reply to others. Please tell. Making fun of my weak english that i couldn't even understand his text is not an attack?Krish Talk 06:10, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've been here for close to 11 years. I've made a lot of friends and enemies here. That doesn't discount my views. You have the right to remove and add stuff so long as it is compliant with policies and consensus, which isn't the issue here. The issue here is your pathetic behaviour towards others, calling them names, and abusing them, which you did and as a net result I left a warning on your talk page. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 06:22, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Nowhere did I mention studies. I haven't participated in any discussion on Kashibai. Why are you distorting the conversation by inserting it after my comment? -_Rsrikanth05 (talk) 12:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support long-term ban. This user has, on multiple occasions, made it extremely difficult for me to contribute here. His constant bad-faith and abusive nature made me take a long wikibreak last year, and I wouldn't wish that upon any constructive editor. This has really gone on for far too long, and action must be taken. Pinging some of the other editors (Dr. Blofeld, BOLLYWOOD DREAMZ, Kailash29792 and Vensatry), who have been a victim of his abuse. --Krimuk 90 (talk) 10:10, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Strong Support:Oh my. Look who finally replied to a text related to me. God bless you Krimuk. Please tell the administrators that you used to sen threats on Twitter and troll me there. Please tell the administrators that you have abused me on my talk page and through e-mails. You know I really don't have time for this and I don't think I will show those evidences against you, how much you have abused me here and how uncivil you are. You have finally succeeded in breaking me. I really can't take anymore and I feel like it was my biggest mistake to come here and contribute here. I have lost all the energy today and I ask administrators for a long term ban as I'm really fed up of this accusation of being uncivil and abusive, even when the others editors have been as abusive as me. I gave three years of my life to this site, three presious years of my college life. You don't need to ask your friends to come here and ask for a block for me, I am making this job easy for you. I ask for a block so that others can live here freely as I'm the only one who is making there life troubled.Well done Krimuk you have done the impossible and I wish you all the best for your future.Krish Talk 10:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)- Oppose - I believe Krish! would benefit from close mentoring, and Wikipedia would benefit from a mentored Krish! This is what I propose and I'm willing to act as a mentor if the editor will have me as such.--John Cline (talk) 12:45, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Am not sure and my memory is weak and there have been many user name changes and there have been many editors in similar article domains that keep confusing me.... But i think he has been mentored by @Titodutta: or was it Dr. Blofeld. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 13:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Absolutely Oppose ban I didn't realise this was still open. I don't watch ANI, it is a dreadful place. Now, having read the thread, I have some questions. Why does it matter if Krish says he's going on a wikibreak. Breaks are personal, and can come in many forms - reducing your editing, changing focus and so on. There are a number of very high profile editors who still edit despite having a wikibreak notice, or even a retired notice it does not matter. I told Krish he was a hair's breadth from a block for the Jerk barnstar and his behaviour on 1 May and when I did, he stopped that behaviour. He didn't stop editing, he carried on the discussion civilly at the talk page of the article. On the other hand, I've just had to warn Dharmadhyaksha for provocation at that same article. There are two sides to this case, I certainly don't believe that one side should be banned outright. WormTT(talk) 13:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- The discussion has somewhat veered onto a different zone. To begin with, the user in question seems to have apparently misused his rollback privileges on the page. That said, it's high time that Krish's behaviour be monitored. Because this is the nth time that his conduct has been questioned – this being the most recent one: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive305#User:Krish! reported by User:Human3015 (Result: Blocked). He's been around here for 3+ years, yet doesn't have the temperament to deal with people – a few samples (when he was a newbie): 1, 2. And this was just a year ago. I don't see much of a change in his attitude. —Vensatry (Talk) 14:31, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Worm That Turned, the user's claims of being the victim of abusive messages off-wiki are absurd, because he is the one who has sent me multiple abusive emails. I had then contacted Crisco 1492 and shared screenshots of those messages with him, after which I was advised to block him and the user was warned. In those emails he claimed that the actress Vidya Balan, whose article I significantly contributed to, had payed for my education. I can send you screenshots of those emails if you like. See this, where he misused the "help me" template to write: "These kind of users should be ashamed of themselves and their face should be blackened to show how much they are.." Also, he is the one who, as recently as last month, made accusations of paid writing after I spent working on the articles of three actors who work for Dharma Productions. As many of the editors who have previously interacted with him, the user has a long history of being a nuisance and resorts back to his old ways within days of being warned by administrators. Krimuk 90 (talk) 05:39, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Krimuk90 I give you a standing ovation. You are the best. Why don't you tell Worm That Turned that you were the person who accused me "paid writing", I didn't took your name on my talk page but now I will provide my side of story. That Balan funding your education was the reply to your accusations that I write on behalf of Chopra and she had paid me. I had told this to Dr. Blofeld also. It should be noted that this conversation of him accusing me of paid writing and my reply to him about funding studies happened in Im nort sure but may be in 2012 or early 2013 but then how this user can still talk to me in December 2014 if I sent him abusive emails? Please tell me, it shows that he manipulated Crisco by sending a screenshotfor a diffenent reasons. He used to abuse me through tweets from random accounts saying "Hey Kid, Is Madam Chopra feeding you well?". Then he chose my user and talk page to abuse me and accused me saying She is the "worst actress of this generation"; who can't do any type of role. Just wanted to let everyone know that! :) Chopra is paying me to write only god things about her on WP!. Please tell me how can a random IP can accuse me of what Krimuk already had? It was not a co-incidence, can't be. That time I didn't know much about wikipedia rules or I would have complained about him and those Ips. He then continued to accuse me through random IPs, pretended to be me She is the "worst actress of this generation"; who can't do any type of role. Just wanted to let everyone know that! :) I don't have a life outside of WP because Chopra madam is paying me to write only god things about her on WP!, I don't have a life outside of WP because Chopra madam is paying me to write only god things about her on WP!, and this one where he claims that it was me who was editing my userpage from IPs Plz don't touch my user page!!!!). But I never abused him off wikipedia and I only had arguments with him her like everybody has with one another. I never abused him through e-mails, though we used to chat about so many things, so please don't trust him because he may show you a manipulated version of emails. If he does, I will give my email adress and passwor to you WOrm That Turned, you can check what i used to send him and it was anything but abuse. I have not even erased a single email of his. So I will show you everything if you want. Coming to his above accusations that I had accused him for writing for Dharma Kids, no I didn't I didn't name it I said that why people always exxagerate things on Dharma Kids saying all their films are blockbusters. There I asked for neutrality and equality. I didn't name him but he went and edited that actresses article like what hehas done on Dharma Kids. Coming to more of his accusation. He is no saint. In February, he started expanding Shahid Kapoor article and he added a controversial thing about his relationship in his article. I reverted him Chopra never accepted that she had a relationship with Kapoor like Kareena did. So get your facts right befor adding such stuffs. He claims to be very senior and well behaved but this was his reply to reverting back to his version She doesn't have to. it's not her biography. Then Dr. Blofeld started a discussion at the talk page and we discussed that they never had accepted their relationship and Blofeld agreed to me but Krimuk took this in a wrong way and refused to discuss. As you can see I and Blofeld discussed there civilly, he didn't wanted to discusss because he believes what he says is right and others are wrong. He showed up at the talk page saying I'm not interested in editing this article anymore. I'm sure Mr. Krish can do a much better job at this than a fucking retard like me! Good luck. and then he started getting mad and started hid disruptive editing at the article talk page I did such a fucked job taking this to GA!, I am silly. What, will someone put me in jail for it? . and when he was reverted back for his disruptive editing the fact that no one own articles on wikipedia he said Maybe i'll buy it for 2.45$. He removed all his content from his talk and user page with a message saying Chopra is the virginal beauty or something like that and since has been hidden with summary as "Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material". So please tell me how am I responsible for his bad behaviour? We haven't talked since January 2015 and here is.Krish Talk 09:14, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Worm That Turned, the user's claims of being the victim of abusive messages off-wiki are absurd, because he is the one who has sent me multiple abusive emails. I had then contacted Crisco 1492 and shared screenshots of those messages with him, after which I was advised to block him and the user was warned. In those emails he claimed that the actress Vidya Balan, whose article I significantly contributed to, had payed for my education. I can send you screenshots of those emails if you like. See this, where he misused the "help me" template to write: "These kind of users should be ashamed of themselves and their face should be blackened to show how much they are.." Also, he is the one who, as recently as last month, made accusations of paid writing after I spent working on the articles of three actors who work for Dharma Productions. As many of the editors who have previously interacted with him, the user has a long history of being a nuisance and resorts back to his old ways within days of being warned by administrators. Krimuk 90 (talk) 05:39, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose a site ban. That's a bit extreme for my taste. I'd support an absolute last warning that the next time they make a personal attack on another editor they will be indefinitely blocked. The same goes for Dharmadhyaksha per Worm's post above. Blackmane (talk) 14:58, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- I expressed similar concerns about Prashant/Krish to Ian Rose, Cassianto and SchroCat a few weeks back. Sorry to say but Krish! just never seems to grow up. His recent behaviour is a perfect example of why he's not mature enough to edit here. Incredibly childish and never seems to change as he promises. He does contribute some good work but most of his interactions on here are negative ones and he never seems to learn how to avoid them. I think it's best for everybody if he was banned or at least something severe imposed on interacting with people to stop people having to deal with his nonsense. John Cline and some of the others clearly have little experience of this editor, all the mentoring in the world won't change him. When he doesn't feel threatened and is focused on writing he's productive I think, and at times he can even be pleasant, but as Vensatry says, too many times now and just lacks the control to deal with people. Suggest something severe imposed in terms of interacting with others, that might work, but then you'll still get the same petty squabbles over articles. Irritating.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:35, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- If the consensus is for more severe sanctions, then it is as the community wills. There may be a small glimmer of self realisation from Krish! that how they're going about things is just not right considering that a ban discussion is underway. Interaction bans are nasty business and really need some strong reform to have bigger teeth. Blackmane (talk) 14:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I expressed similar concerns about Prashant/Krish to Ian Rose, Cassianto and SchroCat a few weeks back. Sorry to say but Krish! just never seems to grow up. His recent behaviour is a perfect example of why he's not mature enough to edit here. Incredibly childish and never seems to change as he promises. He does contribute some good work but most of his interactions on here are negative ones and he never seems to learn how to avoid them. I think it's best for everybody if he was banned or at least something severe imposed on interacting with people to stop people having to deal with his nonsense. John Cline and some of the others clearly have little experience of this editor, all the mentoring in the world won't change him. When he doesn't feel threatened and is focused on writing he's productive I think, and at times he can even be pleasant, but as Vensatry says, too many times now and just lacks the control to deal with people. Suggest something severe imposed in terms of interacting with others, that might work, but then you'll still get the same petty squabbles over articles. Irritating.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:35, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support sanctions, though not necessarily a site ban. Maybe a two-week ban for incivility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Homemade Pencils (talk • contribs) 23:28, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Ban/Support Sanctions Not sure if practical but perhaps some sort of escalating scale? Next infraction of WP:Civil 1 week ban, and progressively higher from there. --Cameron11598 (Converse) 04:59, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Very Strong Support I agree Krish should be blocked just reading this ANI makes me cringe... I firmly believe that this ani should of been closed days ago... It's obvious that consensus is that Krish is needed to be blocked. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ (talk) 13:44, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose the ban/block The discussion is too lengthy to give in time, though I have had my own frictions with Krish! but banning/blocking him isn't the solution. No one here is so inexperienced that they would do harm to the requisite Wiki page. I believe in the work and dedication by Krimuk90 and Krish!. Coming to Dharmadhyaksha, I really don't appreciate his approach of dealing with fellow users. Arjann (talk) 07:56, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Is Arjann also looking for Boomerang? " I have never come across a user who is as stupid as you. I mean it, literally. You and user Vivvt are pathetic" ... "Dumb." This had come on my talk page after 4 of the images this user had uploaded were nominated by me for deletion and which are eventually now deleted. File:Haider film score artwork.jpg, File:Lootera Cover Art.jpg, File:Thalli Pogathey (single cover).jpg, File:Jab Tak Hai Jaan Audio Launch.jpg. The user later also went on to remove a FFD tag from one of the files for which I warned him. Arjann also has a history of making PAs towards other editors. See this. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Dharmadhyaksha: In this big discussion that involves almost every user I came across on Wikipedia, I will apologise every person on whom I made a personal attack but when it comes to you and Vivvt, I will never do that. A very simple and straightforward answer is here: I agree deleting of images listed above. Let them be named 1, 2, 3, 4 in that order above. I also agree with deletion of 1, 2 and 4 but when it comes to deletion of image 3, your explanation and replies to me over here are completely out of context.
- The MOS:FILM#Soundtrack states in one of the lines: "The poster image in the film infobox is sufficient for identification of the topic, and having cover images in the film article's album infoboxes is considered extraneous." But when there isn't a official film poster since 2-3 months, an image as cover art isn't extraneous at all. I even mentioned earlier: "Once it releases, feel free to put this claim and delete the file. As of now, it qualifies." So watch out for your own silly mistakes. Arjann (talk) 12:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- So your best argument to retain a file was to attack the nominator and remove FfD tag? Your reason if was persuasive enough then the image would have stayed. Btw, thanks to the short term memory i have, i dont remember any previous grudges with you. Which Indian film personality's fan are you? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 13:48, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Dharmadhyaksha: Your are now in a catch-22 situation. I respect my and others' work. I accept my mistakes openly and I learn a lot. So, I feel this is my last reply to you over here. That's it all I can say. Arjann (talk) 04:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I understand why do you want to keep this as your last reply when boomerang and other behavioural things have started to come out. I was on a mobile device in my last comment and hence couldn't do a good research. I now know that your past grudges with Vivvt and probably me have been because of your obsessiveness towards a certain music director whose articles who create and mostly edit. This trend is very much like Krish. Both of you can't handle criticisms of your favorite filmy personalities and then tend to start abusing fellow editors over content disputes. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 05:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Dharmadhyaksha: Your are now in a catch-22 situation. I respect my and others' work. I accept my mistakes openly and I learn a lot. So, I feel this is my last reply to you over here. That's it all I can say. Arjann (talk) 04:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- So your best argument to retain a file was to attack the nominator and remove FfD tag? Your reason if was persuasive enough then the image would have stayed. Btw, thanks to the short term memory i have, i dont remember any previous grudges with you. Which Indian film personality's fan are you? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 13:48, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Is Arjann also looking for Boomerang? " I have never come across a user who is as stupid as you. I mean it, literally. You and user Vivvt are pathetic" ... "Dumb." This had come on my talk page after 4 of the images this user had uploaded were nominated by me for deletion and which are eventually now deleted. File:Haider film score artwork.jpg, File:Lootera Cover Art.jpg, File:Thalli Pogathey (single cover).jpg, File:Jab Tak Hai Jaan Audio Launch.jpg. The user later also went on to remove a FFD tag from one of the files for which I warned him. Arjann also has a history of making PAs towards other editors. See this. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support We just don't need this sort of thing. Op47 (talk) 13:06, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Oppose only an indef ban. Support a block/ban for one year in duration to allow Krish the opportunity to "finish" their studies and re-educate themselves on standard operating procedure for Wikipedia. Add a proviso that the next time they fail to adhere to Civility policy they recieve an indefinite ban (as they're already a hairs breadth away from an indef already). Hasteur (talk) 17:18, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Discussion
I took the liberty to break up the discussion a little. Too many sub threads and such. Blackmane (talk) 14:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- May I ask for a mentor please? I still don't know many things about wikipedia though I am 3 years old here, was mostly inactive in 2013 and 14. By the way I need someone to guide me through this. I don't have any friends here who encourage me or support me when I am right but I have people who unite when I do something wrong. I don't get it. If neutrality is the policy of wikipedia then shouldn't they support me when I do some good? Dr. Blofeld has taught me several things here, when I was new and would like to ask for help if he can help me through this. I am sure I will do 10x better in someone's guidance than I used to do alone.KrishTalk 04:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd first suggest you strike out your nonsensical support of your own block. I have half a mind to close this discussion and grant that. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:43, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- All right done. Ricky81682.Krish Talk 16:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd first suggest you strike out your nonsensical support of your own block. I have half a mind to close this discussion and grant that. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:43, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- May I ask for a mentor please? I still don't know many things about wikipedia though I am 3 years old here, was mostly inactive in 2013 and 14. By the way I need someone to guide me through this. I don't have any friends here who encourage me or support me when I am right but I have people who unite when I do something wrong. I don't get it. If neutrality is the policy of wikipedia then shouldn't they support me when I do some good? Dr. Blofeld has taught me several things here, when I was new and would like to ask for help if he can help me through this. I am sure I will do 10x better in someone's guidance than I used to do alone.KrishTalk 04:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Neutrality is a content policy not a behavioural guideline. Blackmane (talk) 14:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Attack page - Selim Mehajer
Hi all, it appears that Selim Mehajer was just deleted by the admin JamesBWatson as an "attack page", and redirected to Auburn City Council#History.
The page is not in any way an "attack page". Could someone please explain why this occurred?
Interestingly, as I'm the one who created it, I was not advised, warned or informed in any way that it was deleted. I'm surprised it happened, and even more surprised that an admin who sees what they consider to be an attack on another person wouldn't even leave a message warning that person of their behaviour.
What also concerns me is that it seems to be an end run around AFD. Selim Mehajer is a very prominent figure in Australia, and is constantly in the media for entirely notable things that he does. It was in office and is facing an investigation around accusations of conflict of interest, and will be before the courts on alleged electoral fraud soon.
Under the processes that are in place currently, deleting a page in the manner that just occured seems entirely out of process. Firstly, an "attack page" should surely be fixed if the article is of a notable figure, and if necessary someone with oversight rights should hide the revisions that slander the party involved. Secondly, if it is to be deleted, then my understanding is that it should go to Articles for Deletion - and in fact, it doesn't appear to be a candidate as a Proposed Deletion as there is a reasonable objection that Selim is notable enough for his own article. And thirdly, I left a note on the talk page explaining what I was doing, but the admin didn't do me the courtesy of responding to this.
I'm sure the admin was using their best judgement and felt their action was protecting the reputation of Wikipedia and the subject, Selim Mehajer, but I think this action was wrongly taken and I would request that it be reversed. Thanks. - Letsbefiends (talk) 22:08, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Attack pages are eligible for speedy deletion under WP:G10. I've had a look at the deleted article, and it was entirely a criticism piece showing the man in a wholly negative light. It was written in an editorial style rather than an encyclopedic style, presented allegations as facts, and included a number of negative claims that were not supported by reliable sources. In my opinion, speedy deletion was entirely proper. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:15, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- OK, I understand. The article still should exist on it's own though. If I was to review the issues and write a more neutral one, is that still possible? I largely took the material from Auburn City Council, I can rewrite it from scratch.
- What in particular is the issue though? Also, why wasn't I notified that I was overstepping bounds? I would appreciate that, as a courtesy at the very least so that I can review and correct any inappropriate editing behaviour that I may be engaged in. - Letsbefiends (talk) 22:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- The main issue, as Boing! said Zebedee explained, is that the article appears to have been written about a person, and was written entirely with a negative analysis and criticism about the person. There were also allegations presented as facts and with no reliable sources provided. Articles written in this manner about living people will be reported and deleted immediately upon discovery. You're new here; and I understand that you probably didn't understand our policies in this situation. It's okay to make mistakes; we understand and we're more than willing to help you! I highly recommend that you review Wikipedia's biographies of living people, neutral point of view, and identifying reliable sources guidelines, as they are relevant to this situation and will provide you with all of the information that you need. If you have any questions regarding the policies and guidelines that I've linked you to here, please do not hesitate to reach out to me and ask. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you have. Cheers :-) -- ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 22:56, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Understand the POV concern (though I hadn't intended on making it specifically an attack page, but I can see how it may have turned out that way), but every one of the citations was to a reliable news source. I sourced my material from The Sydney Morning Herald, The Daily Telegraph and The Australian. I think (but can't recall) sourcing The Guardian as well. I also recall sourcing material from The Daily Mail, which was verifiable and accurate - even if that publication is not has a much reputation as the other sources. What reference was considered unreliable? Also, what allegations were stated as fact? The material I added did not do this, and the other material was taken directly from Auburn City Council#History, which I modified slightly. - Letsbefiends (talk) 23:17, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- FWIW, incidentally, I'm not that new around here. I do understand the policies and procedures pretty well. Just thought you should know... - Letsbefiends (talk) 23:22, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- My apologies; I meant no insult. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:32, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- No offense taken :-) I never read it as an insult, I just wanted to disclose that even though my edit history may be a bit patchy I'm a reasonably experienced contributor - I only said that to make sure I didn't mislead you in any way. In fact, your response was excellent and if I had been a newbie then I think I would have been informed and happy that I was being treated with honesty and civility.
- I do want to ask where I went wrong given the response by Boing! said Zebedee. I don't believe that the text has any material that presented allegations as fact because I took pains to actually make sure that allegations were stated as allegations. I don't mind being told that the article was slanted too negatively, and was thus deleted, but I think I do (politely) object to being told that I presented allegations as fact, when in fact I didn't.
- FWIW, I'm not outraged and accept the decision of the admin who deleted the article, however I thought it would be reasonable to appeal the decision on AN/I. I have notified the admin that he is mentioned here under the listed process, I hope that is alright. I suppose I should note that my only criticism of the admin who deleted the page was that they didn't notify me what they had done, at the very least because I was initially confused about where my edits got to and also because I thought that editors who are violating guidelines and rules (even inadvertently) should be at least advised that their editing practices should be altered. I wouldn't have taken offence, and even if I had then it would still have been the polite and civil thing to do. That's my only real issue at this moment, it looks like the decision itself was in line with current policy so I apologise to the wider Wikipedia community for having stepped outside the established norms of editing. - Letsbefiends (talk) 23:53, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am, however, rather upset that this has been flagged for speedy deletion under the C7 criteria by WWGB, especially as I'm actively working on it. Isn't it normal to allow someone to keep working on the article to show notability before tagging it for speedy deletion? I don't understand how this person is not notable, they aren't just notable in Australia - they are notorious! The amount of media coverage about serious allegations around the deputy Mayor of a major Local Government Area (City of Auburn) within the state of NSW is extraordinary. I mean, he has an AFP investigation for electoral fraud happening right now, amongst other things. A whole special article was written up on him in the major national Australian newspaper, The Australian. I just don't understand how this tag can have been put on the page in good faith. Did the editor not see the talk page? - Letsbefiends (talk) 00:51, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- My apologies; I meant no insult. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:32, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- FWIW, incidentally, I'm not that new around here. I do understand the policies and procedures pretty well. Just thought you should know... - Letsbefiends (talk) 23:22, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Understand the POV concern (though I hadn't intended on making it specifically an attack page, but I can see how it may have turned out that way), but every one of the citations was to a reliable news source. I sourced my material from The Sydney Morning Herald, The Daily Telegraph and The Australian. I think (but can't recall) sourcing The Guardian as well. I also recall sourcing material from The Daily Mail, which was verifiable and accurate - even if that publication is not has a much reputation as the other sources. What reference was considered unreliable? Also, what allegations were stated as fact? The material I added did not do this, and the other material was taken directly from Auburn City Council#History, which I modified slightly. - Letsbefiends (talk) 23:17, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- The main issue, as Boing! said Zebedee explained, is that the article appears to have been written about a person, and was written entirely with a negative analysis and criticism about the person. There were also allegations presented as facts and with no reliable sources provided. Articles written in this manner about living people will be reported and deleted immediately upon discovery. You're new here; and I understand that you probably didn't understand our policies in this situation. It's okay to make mistakes; we understand and we're more than willing to help you! I highly recommend that you review Wikipedia's biographies of living people, neutral point of view, and identifying reliable sources guidelines, as they are relevant to this situation and will provide you with all of the information that you need. If you have any questions regarding the policies and guidelines that I've linked you to here, please do not hesitate to reach out to me and ask. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you have. Cheers :-) -- ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 22:56, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am well aware of Salim Mehajer who, like a Kardashian, is famous only for being famous. He had a lavish wedding, so do many others. He has no convictions, so charges should not be mentioned according to WP:BLPCRIME. Being a deputy mayor is not sufficient for notability per WP:POLITICIAN. An article cannot be entirely negative. So what is left to write about? What we have, IMO, is a serial self-promoter who has found his 15 minutes of fame, but who has very little in real achievements that could form the skeleton of an acceptable Wikipedia article. You have indicated the scope of the problem with your first pass at the article: all that can be said is he was born, was educated and became a deputy mayor, none of which establishes notability so far. I wish you well, but I think if anything balanced and meaningful could be written about Mehajer, someone else would have done it by now. WWGB (talk) 01:59, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- We agree to disagree then. I think it's quite notable that he has faced court proceedings many times, pretty much was the main reason the council was put under administration, is currently facing charges of electoral fraud by the Australian Federal Police, and a variety of other things which are notable enough to make every major newspaper write serious articles about him. He still has serious questions to answer about his tender for the John St car park, which is still being investigated. Like I have said, I am happy if you want to take it to AFD, but I think I've established his notability. I'm fine with you disagreeing, but given you want the article deleted for notability perhaps you should take it to AFD? I'm happy to do this myself if you'd like, but I'm concerned it might be viewed as POINTY. - Letsbefiends (talk) 02:49, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am well aware of Salim Mehajer who, like a Kardashian, is famous only for being famous. He had a lavish wedding, so do many others. He has no convictions, so charges should not be mentioned according to WP:BLPCRIME. Being a deputy mayor is not sufficient for notability per WP:POLITICIAN. An article cannot be entirely negative. So what is left to write about? What we have, IMO, is a serial self-promoter who has found his 15 minutes of fame, but who has very little in real achievements that could form the skeleton of an acceptable Wikipedia article. You have indicated the scope of the problem with your first pass at the article: all that can be said is he was born, was educated and became a deputy mayor, none of which establishes notability so far. I wish you well, but I think if anything balanced and meaningful could be written about Mehajer, someone else would have done it by now. WWGB (talk) 01:59, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Letsbefiends is quite right in saying that he/she should have been informed of the deletion. Normal practice is that the person who nominates a page for speedy deletion informs the creator of the page of the nomination. It would have helped if I had checked whether that had been done, and on seeing that it hadn't, informed Letsbefiends myself instead. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:41, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you, I appreciate you saying this. - Letsbefiends (talk) 10:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- @JamesBWatson: Actually, the directions at AfD say specifically:
so if you are saying that it is required, those instructions need to be changed. If you're just saying that it's good etiquette to do so, that's a different matter. BMK (talk) 20:48, 11 May 2016 (UTC)While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the articles that you are nominating for deletion... (emphasis added)
- @JamesBWatson: Actually, the directions at AfD say specifically:
- Thank you, I appreciate you saying this. - Letsbefiends (talk) 10:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken: I wasn't intending to say that it is required, but just that it is usually desirable. That is why I said "Normal practice..." and "It would have helped..." On the other hand, I see that I also said "...he/she should have been informed...", and "should" could be read as meaning that it is always required. However, what I had in mind was something more like "it would have been better if he/she had been informed". 90% of the time informing the relevant editor as a matter of courtesy should be done, but I don't think it would help to make it obligatory to always do so, because occasionally there are situations where it isn't helpful, such as for a new editor who has already recently received a barrage of warning messages, and adding one more, even if done in good faith, is likely to serve no purpose other than intimidating the editor. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- For speedy deletion: Users nominating a page for speedy deletion should specify which criterion/criteria the page meets, and should notify the page creator and any major contributors. —SpacemanSpiff 08:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In this case, WWGB should have notified me, but did not do so on two occasions. I would appreciate it if he would follow the very clearly set out rules to give me a fair chance to object and state my case. I understand that on the first occassion the tone was all wrong, but the second time it was nominated just seemed to be forcing the point. - Letsbefiends (talk) 09:11, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I used the automated csd process at the top of the page, which is supposed to notify the creator. Not my problem if it does not work properly. WWGB (talk) 10:18, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm afraid it is very much your responsibility to ensure that you follow the rules when you list an article for speedy deletion, and it is definitely still your responsibility to follow the same guidelines and rules to notify the correct people of the deletion, regardless of whether the automated solution is working or not. I should note that it is not just the creator of the article you should notify, but those who have substantially contributed to the article as well. If this is how you have been tagging CSDs then may I suggest you be more careful? - Letsbefiends (talk) 10:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I used the automated csd process at the top of the page, which is supposed to notify the creator. Not my problem if it does not work properly. WWGB (talk) 10:18, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In this case, WWGB should have notified me, but did not do so on two occasions. I would appreciate it if he would follow the very clearly set out rules to give me a fair chance to object and state my case. I understand that on the first occassion the tone was all wrong, but the second time it was nominated just seemed to be forcing the point. - Letsbefiends (talk) 09:11, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- For speedy deletion: Users nominating a page for speedy deletion should specify which criterion/criteria the page meets, and should notify the page creator and any major contributors. —SpacemanSpiff 08:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken: I wasn't intending to say that it is required, but just that it is usually desirable. That is why I said "Normal practice..." and "It would have helped..." On the other hand, I see that I also said "...he/she should have been informed...", and "should" could be read as meaning that it is always required. However, what I had in mind was something more like "it would have been better if he/she had been informed". 90% of the time informing the relevant editor as a matter of courtesy should be done, but I don't think it would help to make it obligatory to always do so, because occasionally there are situations where it isn't helpful, such as for a new editor who has already recently received a barrage of warning messages, and adding one more, even if done in good faith, is likely to serve no purpose other than intimidating the editor. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 08:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive editing by User:Some1asks
This editor's latest edit, with no edit summary, reverting me to remove a valid entry from a disambiguation hatnote, brings me to this page. It is the latest in a series of edits to South Gloucestershire, South Gloucestershire Council and South Gloucestershire (UK Parliament constituency) over which we have had discussion in the last couple of days. I have attempted to bring in outside opinions by discussing the constituency at User_talk:BrownHairedGirl#South_Gloucestershire_constituency (BHG being an acknowledged expert on UK constituencies, as well as having created the article), and now a request for "expert help" on the article. Their disruptive edits include repeated addition of {{Distinguish South Gloucestershire Unitary authority}}
(producing "Not to be confused with South Gloucestershire or Unitary authority.") in the middle of the lead section of the constituency article (I have since added a sentence conveying the same information, as an attempt to stop this disruption), and addition of rambling sections of text about the relationship between the constituency and local government areas. The editor has removed my various warnings from their talk page and accused me of hypocrisy and ignorance.
I am wary of being accused of edit-warring, but can see no other way forward than to bring this editor and these articles to this page in the hope that this disruptive editing can be stopped. Thanks. PamD 07:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sir John Cope MP, Gloucestershire South Constituency (Hansard list of constituencies), Sir John Cope said, " "Most of my constituents live in the county of Avon not in Gloucestershire.
- Gloucestershire County at at 1974-1996 did not cover Avon.
- Gloucestershire County from 1996 to current date of 2016, is not any part of South Gloucestershire, (the geographic local government area Unitary authority area).
- Parliamentary Constituencies are hand have been several in the Northern Avon (South Gloucestershire) geographic area.
- BEFORE 1974 both Somerset and Gloucestershire covered larger areas, but when describing the Gloucestershire South constituency - it should (a) be called that as Parliament called it that (again Hansard lists this).
(b) when describing the area 'other' constituencies should not be lumped in and claimed to be in a an ancient South Gloucestershire Constituency..
- The 1996-present South Gloucestershire area is not Gloucestershire, the 1974-1996 area was not Gloucestershire, the PRE 1974 area was not South Gloucestershire but in part only, Gloucestershire South Constituency, (again Hansard list 1803-2005).
Some1asks (talk) 11:20, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
> Re discussions about 'South Gloucestershire' (UK Parliamentary Constituency)..
- Note that 'Sir John Cope' was Member of Parliament for Northavon, (prior to this see below quote). This constituency was in the then County of Avon. I have used Hansard to link to the list of Parliamentary Constituencies between the years 1803-2005. There is no 'South Gloucestershire' Parliamentary Constituency listed, see Hansard here: [1]
- The term Election in a newspaper will give results (in a General Election) for BOTH Parliamentary MP's and some Councils, including a Non-metropolitan county. a modern Unitary authority and Metropolitan county areas.. BECAUSE not all UK local government Council elections are done at the same time. EG In 2016 most English Councils had local elections, along with Welsh Assembly elections, Scottish Parliament elections and Northern Ireland elections.
- MANY when voting in the UK General Election voted for both a local MP and their Local Councils, plus Parish or Town Councils. (Regional Council Elections are split into two cycles because of the huge volume of votes, and MP's keep the cycles split as it's and indicator of how a national government is doing).
- South Gloucestershire is not listed as a Constituency from 1803-2005 in Hansard, and does not exist now. (South Gloucestershire only existed in the form of a Unitary Authority from 1996 and is 20 years old, there is no South Gloucestershire Parliamentary Constituency).
- 'IF' there is a reference to South Gloucestershire prior to 1996 it's either wrong as the geographic area was Avon, or someone is confusing the geographic area with neighbouring and separate Southern Gloucestershire (County).. Avon existing between 1974-1996. The County of Avon was abolished and the northern parts became South Gloucestershire, (Former Avon districts of Northavonand Kingswood becoming the created area of South Gloucestershire, a Unitary authority).
- Before 1974 a section of Avon (before its creation) was in Southern Gloucestershire, but as the area was and remains highly populated, several MP constituencies existed, and Hansard does not mention a Parliamentary Constituency of 'South Gloucestershire', the area didn't exist, (unless a person actually means Southern Gloucestershire, or Gloucestershire south).
- The Gazette cited, if it is genuine, notes a county representative being voted for, as opposed to a parliamentary representative, I note the different entries!
- Since 1996 the Unitary authority of South Gloucestershire has several Parliamentary constituencies due to dense population.
- I quote a comment written in talk, citing Sir John Cope MP, emphasis mine:
"My constituency covers bits of two separate counties and takes the name of the smaller section (Hansard, Gloucestershire South Constituency, Southern Gloucestershire), "Most of my constituents '"live in the county of Avon not in Gloucestershire"'.
- The ONLY place were the Geographic areas of Gloucestershire and South Gloucestershire are linked, is in legislation related to the Lieutenancy areas, and the legislation clearly notes the areas exist solely for the purposes of the act, and are not council or parliamentary areas. (also known in the act as Ceremonial County, as its just the designated area for the Sovereigns representative, as of writing Queen Elizabeth II). (Main Act here [2]. (Schedule of areas for the Lieutenants [3].
Some1asks (talk) 11:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In case anyone is puzzled by the reference above to
The Gazette cited, if it is genuine ...
, the page which had been quoted in discussion at User_talk:BrownHairedGirl is https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/41842/page/6430/data.pdf, a page at the website of the government publication The London Gazette. I'm not sure whether the editor wishes to imply that the editor citing it (not me) might have created a forgery or been fooled by one, but either way it seems a Personal attack. The post above is very similar to one at that user talk page, and I have replied to some points there. PamD 05:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In case anyone is puzzled by the reference above to
- This is really a content dispute. The issue here is that in both official and non official publications, compass points tend to get placed as both prefixes and suffixes for the same constituency, even though for rural ones, like the one in question, the official name would have placed it as a prefix. Cope is listed here in Hansard being sworn in for South Gloucestershire in 1974. Same in Hansard for 1979. The official parliament website also lists Cope as member for South Gloucestershire 1974-1983. Claiming that these references from official sites "are wrong" or that this would have been in a neighbouring county is contradicted by the quote which Some1asks posts where Cope himself says that the constituency was mostly in Avon with a small part in Gloucestershire!! There is no need for admin involvement.... yet. However, if Some1asks persists in ignoring sources given and editing accordingly, we may need to come back here. Valenciano (talk) 08:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The editor's talk page history since they joined us last month makes it seem likely that they'll be back on this page, whether on this topic or another. But as the "last straw" reversion on Gloucestershire which prompted my posting here has not been reverted again, I'd be happy to see this closed at present. Thanks for reading it, if anyone did! PamD 09:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is really a content dispute. The issue here is that in both official and non official publications, compass points tend to get placed as both prefixes and suffixes for the same constituency, even though for rural ones, like the one in question, the official name would have placed it as a prefix. Cope is listed here in Hansard being sworn in for South Gloucestershire in 1974. Same in Hansard for 1979. The official parliament website also lists Cope as member for South Gloucestershire 1974-1983. Claiming that these references from official sites "are wrong" or that this would have been in a neighbouring county is contradicted by the quote which Some1asks posts where Cope himself says that the constituency was mostly in Avon with a small part in Gloucestershire!! There is no need for admin involvement.... yet. However, if Some1asks persists in ignoring sources given and editing accordingly, we may need to come back here. Valenciano (talk) 08:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sir John Cope MP, Gloucestershire South Constituency (Hansard list of constituencies), Sir John Cope said, " "Most of my constituents live in the county of Avon not in Gloucestershire.
- Gloucestershire County at at 1974-1996 did not cover the County of Avon.
- Gloucestershire County from 1996 to the current date of 2016, is not any part of South Gloucestershire, (the geographic local government area Unitary authority area).
- Parliamentary Constituencies are and have been several in the Northern Avon (South Gloucestershire) geographic area.
- BEFORE 1974 both Somerset and Gloucestershire covered larger areas, but when describing the Gloucestershire South constituency - it should (a) be called that as Parliament called it that (again Hansard lists this).
(b) when describing the area 'other' constituencies should not be lumped in and claimed to be in a an 'ancient' Gloucestershire South Constituency. EG taking constituencies that were in Avon, or constituencies in the UA area of South Gloucestershire, and claiming they are or were in Gloucestershire County and in the Parliamentary Gloucestershire South Constituency.
- The 1996-present South Gloucestershire area is NOT Gloucestershire.
The 1974-1996 area was NOT Gloucestershire. The PRE 1974 area was not South Gloucestershire, but only in part was Gloucestershire South Constituency, (again Hansard list 1803-2005). Some1asks (talk) 11:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Some1asks: Please do not change your edits after they have been replied to by other people. Do not change the time on an edit to make it appear that you posted it later than the reply below it. I haven't the stamina to try to unpick the muddles you've just made, but just don't do it again.
- To other readers: be aware that the timestamps on some of the above posts may be confusing. PamD 13:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
References
Much-needed arbitrary break
Let me see if I have this right... You're alerting community at large to the urgent, urgent, URGENT need to resolve the question of whether Avon was part of Gloucestershire in 1974, or whatever the hell? Are you kidding??? EEng 12:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @EEng: Oh, not really ... I think s/he also wants to disprove the existence of a parliamentary constituency called "South Gloucestershire", disassociate South Gloucestershire from the geographical and historic county which would help people to locate it, demonstrate a certain level of ignorance (particularly about hatnotes, and apostrophes, where I've now twice had to replace the one in "Sovereign's representative", but also about County and Borough constituencies and more), and so on. Have a look at their talk page log for more of their history (not the talk page, from which most messages get removed promptly, in a recent case with an edit summary alleging slander). All part of the rich tapestry of editing Wikipedia! PamD 13:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- But my reason for starting this post was exasperation at yet another reversion of my correct edit, in which s/he was trying to suppress a hatnote link to the constituency from the UAA article at the base name. I eventually created a dab page instead, as less of a waste of my energy than continuing the fight. I've said above that I'm happy to see this matter closed now, although I suspect that it won't take this editor long to be back here in view of their combative and incoherent input. PamD 13:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Indiscriminate deletion tagging and utterly uncivil comments by User:SimonTrew
A few days ago, I declined a speedy deletion proposal by User:SimonTrew (whose signature is "Si Trew". He responded by calling me "you half-arsed small brained fuckwit".[113] He also placed a second, phony speedy tag on the same redirect, claiming that a just-opened RFD discussion had reached consensus [114] and made a string of uncivil, unfavorable comments about my supposed refusal to participate in the RFD discussion even though he hadn't bothered to / lacked the simple courtesy to notify me of the discussion. Since I learned of the discussion and did respond, he refused to respond to my comments.
Over the last few days, User:SimonTrew has made a long string of speedy nominations which are clearly inappropriate, accompanied by nomination statements which are often bizarre, incoherent, or irrational. For example (and this is nowhere near an exhaustive list):
- Tepre Pacificum, nominated with the statement because Neelix made this up I think it is disgusting it do stink. It's not at target WP:RFD#D2 now do you see. A tepre is no kind of sea in Latin or in Greek, you'll see that this is Neelix nonsense when, I think by now you get the gen. In fact "Tepre Pacificum" is the name Magellan originally gave to the Pacific Ocean,[115], documented by even a cursory GSearch.
- Tartaria Magna, nominated with the statement because Neelix when he felt inclined made up some Latin bad declined, this not a target WP:RFD#D2 confusing I hope my nom's a bit amusing. But said and done this should thus my CSD's a blunderbuss. It is easy to document that "Tartaria Magna" is an older term [116] that is used to refer to the redirect target.[117]
- Utopianists, nominated with the statement The people who have such beliefs are utopians let's be brief this is a made up Neelix word so please delete it how absurd. In fact, it's in such standard works as the Merrian-Webster dictionary.[118]
- Mar del Sur, nominated with the statement because The Southern Ocean which if you take a rough translation from Portuguese is not the Pacific Ocean this is simply Neelix nonsense. In fact, it's a standard phrase even documented in the Spanish Wikipedia.[119]
- Orsino (play), nominated with the statement because Orsino has been played you'll find in several dramas, it's unkind but this one is not quite correct I ask delete this redirect. (Neelix). Redirecting a play to its notable author's bibliography is in no way abusive, and is generally considered appropriate.
- Nuestra Senora de Candelaria Parish Church, nominated with the statement because Nope you can't do that. That would be like saying St Martin in the Fields Trafalgar Square parish church (despite the fact that St Martin in the Fields is a parish church and a famous one, to inject "trafalgar square" into the middle of it would be absrd. which is what Neelix is doing here. We don't have St Martin in the Fields Trafalgar Square Parish Church. You can't inject it like that. Since the redirect target is Nuestra Señora de Candelaria Parish Church, this makes no sense whatsoever.
- Maria Sophie Amalie, Duchess in Bavaria, nominated with the statement because Neelix she was not Duchess in but of.. In fact, a simple google search reveals that the Neelix phrasing is more common than the "Duchess of Bavaria" phrasing thisw editor says is standard.
- Guillitine, nominated with the statement because This is a Neelix redirect. A man who knows a thing or two if Guillot would dispose to chop an I for O I see that's sound but this has its head on the ground. It admittedly did surprise me that this was a plausible misspelling, but Google searches and other online dictionaries treat this as a standard redirect, and it's hardly an unheard-of usage (eg, [120]. A pretty good example of why editors whould check rather than flying off the handle about things they don't like.
I therefore propose that User:SimonTrew be topic banned from matters related to Neelix redirects. Their editing has been grossly irresponsible; their refusal to do appropriate checks before their nominations is clear; their nomination statements are inaccurate, disruptive, and irrational; their responses to criticism have been grossly uncivil, and they have refused to engage in discussion. This behavior does not improve the encyclopedia; it has become a pointless personal jihad. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 17:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like to hear from SimonTrew but I have seen the code word "Neelix" being used indiscriminately in redirect deletion nominations and deletion edit summaries as if the redirect then automatically requires deletion. It's not always an appropriate or a sufficient explanation for deleting a redirect. LizRead! Talk! 17:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'll also ping Sphilbrick and DGG as I see they've had some recent involvement in the discussion of RfDs. Liz Read! Talk! 17:54, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Reluctant support. Si Trew's heart is in the right place, but he (1) thinks he's funny and has a tendency to belittle and insult anyone he feels doesn't appreciate his lame attempts at comedy (probably the most notorious example), (2) shoots from the hip sometimes without engaging in due diligence (as evidenced by all the above), and (3) has a tendency to flare up in really bizarre ways when people don't agree with him (example which springs to mind, but you can find plenty of others just by dip-sampling his user talk contributions). He does do valuable support in the often thankless but necessary field of cleaning up redirects, and with that in mind I wouldn't object as an alternative to a "no attempts at comedy anywhere other than on your own talk page" restriction; as one of the admins who did the original batch delete of the notorious Tumorous titties redirect-farm which kicked the whole investigation into Neelix off, I can appreciate that it's hard to deal with the sheer volume of Neelix's disruption without getting snappy at times. (As I said at the time—and was opposed by Si Trew, as it happens—I feel that in some ways it would have been better for all concerned to run a damnatio memoriae bot to undo everything Neelix ever created, even though that would mean losing good along with bad; the timesink created by sorting the good from the bad is staggering and nowhere near complete.) ‑ Iridescent 17:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
(Adding) @Liz:, "Neelix" is a genuine legitimate deletion reason when it comes to redirects (see WP:G6). The full wording is
any redirects created by Neelix if the reviewing admin reasonably believes that the redirect would not survive a full deletion discussion under the snowball clause
. Without it, WP:RFD would grind to a halt; there are literally thousands of these things that need cleaning up. ‑ Iridescent 18:02, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Add this to Hullaballoo's evidence above (admin only, as it was a no-brainer revdelete for its obnoxiousness). ‑ Iridescent 18:09, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, some of that is still visible, and still very inappropriate. [121]. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 18:31, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have deleted hundreds of inappropriate redirects created by Neelix back in 2015 so I know that they numbered in the tens of thousands and many (but not all) are not useful. But I don't think just dropping a Neelix mention in a RfD nomination is a valid reason alone for deletion but that's my point of view. At the minimum though, Si should slow down. Just yesterday, at RFD he was responsible for 18 of the 20 nominations and those are only the redirects he thinks might be controversial, he CSDs more than that. Looking at the six pages full of redirects that Anomie has put together, it's evident that more need to be cleared out but I still think that we should only be deleting or nominating inappropriate redirects and those need to be evaluated independently. LizRead! Talk! 18:33, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'll start my comments by confessing to two biases, both in my opinion modest, but worth disclosing. First, I might have contributed to SimonTrew's approach. I'm well aware that doing a mindless task too long can be mindnumbing. Si's approach was to try to inject a little humor into an otherwise mindnumbing task. I'm probably guilty of encouraging him, as I thought some of the early efforts were humorous. YMMV.
- My second bias is that while there are not many things in Wikipedia that make me angry, seeing yet another Neelix redirect makes me see red. In my opinion, we as a community failed in the general response. Given the magnitude of the problem, and the rarity of plausible redirects, plus the observation that a missing redirect is exceedingly innocuous, I would've preferred that we mass delete all of them and let anyone create the small handful that might have been appropriate. The community disagreed and I accept that, but it is quite sad that so many, many hours of valuable volunteer time have been sucked up by this cleanup. (I wrote this before seeing that Iridescent has made the same point, earlier and more eloquently.)
- Now that I have that off my chest, I've tried to read the CSD nominations without bias, and I believe the vast majority of the Neelix nominations have been valid.
- It is possible to carry something genuinely humorous too far, and if some do not find it humorous, that point will be earlier than for those who do find it humorous, so it might be wise for side to back off on the humor attempts. (As an aside my family would find it quite humorous that I am giving advice on humor; I am notoriously bad at it.)--S Philbrick(Talk) 19:03, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Iridescent: "Without [the Neelix CSD], WP:RFD would grind to a halt": That doesn't fit with history at all, RfD thrived long before Neelix redirects were called into question and it should continue to thrive long after (Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log). If a redirect doesn't meet one of the WP:R#DELETE or WP:RFDOUTCOMES it generally isn't deleted at RfD. "'Neelix' is a genuine legitimate deletion reason when it comes to redirects": It's a criteria for speedy deletion, most of the "Neelix" redirects listed at RfD either obviously don't qualify for it (i.e. don't explicitly meet an WP:R#DELETE or seem truly implausible) or have been declined, so it actually doesn't have much bearing on RfD discussions.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 04:10, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have no intent whatseover of trawling through all these nominations, but one that came up on my watchlist was this one. This was a redirect from a moved page, with incoming links. Had it been speedied it would have left behind a number of redlinks that have no need to be red. DuncanHill (talk) 19:26, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Another one on my watchlist is this where the reason given for deletion is "because Neelix redirect. Just because someone died into the title ain't supplied, it is just normal then to state in main text, there one can relate" which is gibberish. DuncanHill (talk) 19:29, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Simon is doing a thankless task. No one is nominating redirects ONLY because Neelix created them, but tagging his name at RfD is very helpful as if good arguments to delete are advanced Admins often speedy the redirect. We should have mass deleted the whole lot of the redirects but that has not been done. Instead people come here attacking the people working on the cleanup. Oh and now we find his templates are misleading garbage too - see TfD. Legacypac (talk) 19:38, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Adding gibberish rationales on valid redirects should go unthanked. DuncanHill (talk) 19:48, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's not quite a thankless task User:Legacypac it is a bit of a sod but that is how we make the encylopaedia better. Neelix in no way made them in bad faith he made them in good faith but we have to decide what to do with them, about eighty percent go CSD, ten percent I tag as keep, the other fifteen percent I list at RfD. (That makes 105% but I keep the shilling from the guinea if that is OK with you). Yes it is not hard work but very boring for both admins and for people like me who speak a lot of languages so have to try to explain in English why a redirect does not make sense in French and so on. I don't mind it, but considering I created things like Old Rouen Tramway and Mariniere out of WP:PNT from French I am not quite as green as I am cabbage looking and I am a bit offended if people think I am. What do I have to have a pic on my user page showing how ugly I look? Si Trew (talk) 22:10, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- The two that came up on my watchlist, as I linked above, were perfectly valid redirects resulting from pagemoves. They have incoming links, so are serving the proper purpose of redirects. There was no way they were eligible for speedy deletion, and the "rationale" I quoted above makes no sense whatsoever. DuncanHill (talk) 22:23, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I thought one or two of his earlier comments were quite funny, but I think he has gone a bit further than that. I've just come from his talk page, after I declined an apparently irrelevant CSD request (possibly posted on the wrong page), and left a message about that and a request to tone things down. After saving, I noticed that DGG had already made a similar comment, and saw Hullaballoo Wolfowitz's link to here. I hope that Si takes notice of us and cools things somewhat before a topic ban is imposed. If he doesn't, there's probably no other way. I've declined some Neelix redirects as there are some that are valid, and the rest that aren't at least aren't totally undermining the foundations of the encyclopaedia. They're silly to us, but were probably made in good faith by Neelix. Peridon (talk) 21:23, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- My reply and I probably have it in the wrong section. I have no doubt that Neelix made them in good faith, they are a bit mindniming after you do about sixty or seventy a night. The user User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz who proposed me for a topic ban I do not believe is in good faith, probably just not quite understanding that when I propose at CSD I tend to list in rhyme and such so that the poor old admins such as User:Sphilbrick can at least get a bit of fun with my really bad poetry. I am starting to assume bad faith with User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz because usually it is bold, revert, discuss, with several admins I know from editing over the years (on Wikipedia not personally) the little rhymes and things amuse, when CSD is not abuse. What User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is doing is WP:HOUNDING frankly. If you have a look at my talk page or that user's talk page any question I ask is immediately reverted by that user so I am starting to lose good faith. I was actually thinking that user was a sockpuppet of User:Neelix. I have no problem with Neelix, he in good faith edited and made the encylopaedia a lot better, that was when we didn't have a search engine that nearly worked. He has fetishes for breasts such as I have listed in CSD tonight, but he was in no manner a bad faith editor, there are plenty of top-shelf magazines if you want to do that, you are hardly likely to do it on Wikipedia are you. When I say "Neelix nonsense" that is just really Wikipedia jargon under the WP:66 Neelix concession but I do not understand why, as someone who probably contributes not only to WP:RFD but to WP:PNT and have translated articles from Latin, Hungarian, Spanish, French and some weirdo language they speak in Wales that I am not qualified, under the Neelix concession to list things at RfD.
- I believe User:Sphilbrick is an admin and I am not asking for his backup I am man enough to argue for myself, but Sphilbrick seemed to appreciate the little jokes I put in the listings at CSD, which I have been making ever more rime riche. I am not asking for any kinda special treatment, what actually I am worried about is whether User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz actually is an admin or not, which seems something that user will not say. Si Trew (talk) 22:00, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Hullaballoo has been accusing quite a lot of people around wp and does not respond to queries posted on his talk page.This user does not assume good faith and has been known to disruptivEly edit the encyclopedia, as his block log suggests. I would also like to point out that the username suggests that the user posesses a grudge against the admins and this Indiscriminate harassment of new users may be more of a personal vendatta rather than a desire to work witb the community for improving the encyclopedia.-Account2235 (talk) 22:12, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a keen observation, Account2235, especially since you've been an editor for one day. LizRead! Talk! 01:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am a keen observer as you can observe the user has something about WP's administrators in his signature which prompted the research into this users contributions one thing led to another and 2 days later here I am with all this information.Also note that I had an altercation with the user:Hullaballoo and my view may have been influenced by it.--Account2235 (talk) 10:42, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a keen observation, Account2235, especially since you've been an editor for one day. LizRead! Talk! 01:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Hullaballoo has been accusing quite a lot of people around wp and does not respond to queries posted on his talk page.This user does not assume good faith and has been known to disruptivEly edit the encyclopedia, as his block log suggests. I would also like to point out that the username suggests that the user posesses a grudge against the admins and this Indiscriminate harassment of new users may be more of a personal vendatta rather than a desire to work witb the community for improving the encyclopedia.-Account2235 (talk) 22:12, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I believe User:Sphilbrick is an admin and I am not asking for his backup I am man enough to argue for myself, but Sphilbrick seemed to appreciate the little jokes I put in the listings at CSD, which I have been making ever more rime riche. I am not asking for any kinda special treatment, what actually I am worried about is whether User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz actually is an admin or not, which seems something that user will not say. Si Trew (talk) 22:00, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- My reply and I probably have it in the wrong section. I have no doubt that Neelix made them in good faith, they are a bit mindniming after you do about sixty or seventy a night. The user User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz who proposed me for a topic ban I do not believe is in good faith, probably just not quite understanding that when I propose at CSD I tend to list in rhyme and such so that the poor old admins such as User:Sphilbrick can at least get a bit of fun with my really bad poetry. I am starting to assume bad faith with User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz because usually it is bold, revert, discuss, with several admins I know from editing over the years (on Wikipedia not personally) the little rhymes and things amuse, when CSD is not abuse. What User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is doing is WP:HOUNDING frankly. If you have a look at my talk page or that user's talk page any question I ask is immediately reverted by that user so I am starting to lose good faith. I was actually thinking that user was a sockpuppet of User:Neelix. I have no problem with Neelix, he in good faith edited and made the encylopaedia a lot better, that was when we didn't have a search engine that nearly worked. He has fetishes for breasts such as I have listed in CSD tonight, but he was in no manner a bad faith editor, there are plenty of top-shelf magazines if you want to do that, you are hardly likely to do it on Wikipedia are you. When I say "Neelix nonsense" that is just really Wikipedia jargon under the WP:66 Neelix concession but I do not understand why, as someone who probably contributes not only to WP:RFD but to WP:PNT and have translated articles from Latin, Hungarian, Spanish, French and some weirdo language they speak in Wales that I am not qualified, under the Neelix concession to list things at RfD.
- @SimonTrew: You can check if an editor is an admin via Special:ListUsers. clpo13(talk) 22:16, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- {@Cylpo: I deliberately didn't. There is a kinda well I may have it the wrong way but that the user is or is not an admin I believe he or she is not. Then, that user cannot take my things out of CSD and listing at ANI is absurd. I will start defending myself. I do not believe that that user is an admin therefore I do not think that user had any right to speedily keep my listings under the WP:G6 concession to then as a user who has no administration rights then speedily to delete them, I think that is abuse of process and I would list that user here were it not for the fact that user is not an admin. So I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. The reason I list in rhyme and so on is it is a hard job for the admins to plough through the redirects as much as it is for me to list them. I believe that this user who has declined my nominations at CSD is playing on admin rights without quite saying so because this user never replies when I have asked and reverts any discussion at my user talk page, the discussion at the user's talk page, or anywhere else sensible to discuss this user's behaviour. I am not standing on cerermony but I genuinely believe that this user does not quite "get it" what we do to make the encylopaeidia better. I don't care what is listed at the CSD's that was because User:Sphilbrick said that I don't want to put words in that user's mouth but something like "I must admit usually at CSD I just roll my eyes but yours always make me crack up". Now, what am I to do? Of course I want it to be simple for admins to delete things but I have to offer reasonable explanation and if I do it in canto, rime riche, iambic pentameter or limerick, so what? That does not make me a bad editor. What makes someone a bad editor is that whenever over three weeks they are asked to explain their actions they delete the talkl conversasion that I start. Si Trew (talk) 22:30, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Now I'm getting pissed off. Si Trew has repeatedly posted comments such as that I "never replies when I have asked and reverts any discussion at my user talk page, the discussion at the user's talk page, or anywhere else sensible" and "whenever over three weeks they are asked to explain their actions they delete the talkl conversasion that I start". I have never deleted "a talk conversation" started by Si Trew, anywhere (unless he's also one of the anon/IP vandals who show up regularly on my talk page). I have never reverted anything on his user talk page; I've just checked my contribution history over the last two years, and I've only made two edits to his talk page, both in the last two days, both template notices which removed nothing from it. I've responded to several of Si Trew's request (despite his often failing to notify me of the discussions, and sometimes actively aboiding notifying me User_talk:Alcherin#CSD_redirects_by_you_know_who; Si Trew has generally ignored my responses and refused to engage, until I opened the ANI discussion. It is frankly next to impossible to take such comments in good faith. When did it become acceptable to so brazenly make such false accusations against other editors? The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 23:14, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Si Trew, any editor can remove a CSD tag if it has been wrongly applied. Misapplied CSD tags can result in the deletion of valid pages so it's important that pages that are tagged incorrectly be untagged if there are questions about the tag's appropriateness. And to show I'm not biased, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz removed two CSD tags I had applied to redirects. I disagree with his reasons but he had a right to evaluate them and judge whether they were incorrect (of course, he was wrong this time but he has the right!). Liz Read! Talk! 01:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Si Trew thread arbitrary break
- Trew is doing a truly awesome job at RfD,and he has the innate ability to sift shit from piss over there. Trew's wry/dry humor is only for the cognoscenti so don't sweat it. Luridaxiom (talk) 22:29, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- SimonTrew is using his multiple language abilities on tackling all the Neelix Latin redirects I was afraid to touch. Turns out Neelix's Latin was as bad as his breast fetish and obsession with srewing around with subjects names in strange ways. They are like redirecting Bears and Sun bears at Polar Bears. When processing 50,000 redirects we are bound to mAke the occasional bad call, so let's not get too excited over the occasional questionable CSD. If some potentially valid redirect gets turfed with the misleading crap, the project will not fall apart. Legacypac (talk) 03:25, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose topic ban. I disagree with the Neelix bashing that goes on at RfD, and have never personally engaged in it, but many users do. I would suggest a blanket statement that everyone at RfD should limit their Neelix directed comments to "(Neelix redirect)", but SimonTrew shouldn't be singled out. Si Trew's contributions to RfD are irreplaceable and of high value. Topic banning them from any discussions there would be a net-negative to the forum.—Godsy(TALKCONT) 03:42, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Everyone makes errors,and I have from time to time had discussions with SimonTrew about a few of his. But considering the amount of excellent work that he has been doing in cleaning up the remnants of the utter mess that Neelix left us with, I can not consider this blameworthy , nor can I imagine that if I were doing the amount of work he has been doing on this that I would do any better. All that is necessary is a reminder to go just a little slower, and bring any possibly doubtful cases to RfD. (the doubtful cases seem primarily those where Neelix made one of his ill-advised redirects but accidentally happened to create one that was actually useful. Distinguishing this can sometimes take subject knowledge and therefore need discussion.) DGG ( talk ) 04:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose If SimonTrew were creating silly redirects I would happily support a ban, but we should give the cleaner a great deal of slack when helping to reverse the absurdities dumped on the encyclopedia by Neelix. While redirects are cheap, the idea that every possible phrase should be made a redirect is unhelpful and it is better that the excesses of the past be cleaned up. If someone really wants to paste "Maria Sophie Amalie, Duchess in Bavaria" into the URL and go to the right page, what about Maria Sophie Amalie Duchess in Bavaria and all the other possibilities? Wikipedia's search mechanism is improving, and it should be able to handle most useful cases. Johnuniq (talk) 07:32, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose (sort of) Can we just implement a restriction that SimonTrew is required to knock off the humour and leave relevant (and comprehensible) edit summaries? Since that is the main issue. A relevant summary would indicate he knows and understands what he is doing, and would stop annoying others when he does make the occasional mistake. (Actually forcing him to describe what he is doing might help prevent said mistakes). Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:07, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz claiming that "their responses to criticism have been grossly uncivil" is almost breathtaking in its irony. 151.230.93.81 (talk) 11:48, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose - You can't really blame the bloke for trying to have a laugh after going through the thousands of redirects all "kindly" created by Neelix, I personally would've preferred for all of the redirects to be nuked regardless of whether they were actually helpful or not but unfortunately wasn't the case, Anyway I would suggest SimonTrew perhaps knocks off the humour just a notch but other than that I don't really see a problem and don't really see anything that says "Yes this editor needs to be topicbanned", Also Topicbanning him would mean the Neelix-sorting would take even longer ..... –Davey2010Talk 14:18, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose He's doing a bang-up job finding all of Neelix's incorrect redirects. KoshVorlon 16:28, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose - meh. From memory, this is not the first time OP has suggested a topic ban related to Neelix redirects against overwhelming consensus that they should be tagged and deleted in exactly this manner; Legacypac can probably refresh me on that one. Having personally sifted through a few hundred or thousand or so of Neelix's redirects and the associated RfD discussions since the start, I assure you that "because Neelix" is indeed perfectly valid rationale - some of the redirects he created are so mind-numbingly ridiculous that we created a special deletion criterion for them which amounts to "because Neelix". Because it's not worth anyone's time to try to go through them individually, but Gotch bless users like LP and Si Trew who are trying anyway. SimonTrew: if I could offer one more bit of advice to you from this thread, I advise to assume when applying Neelix-related G6 tags to assume that whichever user reviews will not know anything about Neelix, nor be able to decipher your humour. A clear rationale allows a reviewer to quickly say "yes, this is G6" or "no, I disagree with this rationale and here's why". The "here's why" of course is just as important. Meanwhile, making any revert with an edit summary "absolute blithering incompetence" is a clear personal attack and entirely unwarranted, not to mention not a valid reason to remove a CSD tag. Also unwarranted personal attacks issued in Hullaballoo's edit summaries are "rv idiocy", "it's evident that the nom is either utterly irresponsible or competency-challenged", "per WP:COMPETENCE", "per WP:COMPETENCE" again, "timewasting and nonconstructive", "abusively hasty speedy tagging", "incoherent and invalid", not all of which have been levelled at SimonTrew but at other users tagging articles in good faith. Maybe if the burden of non-admin patrolling CSD is weighing on Hullaballoo, they should take a break. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 18:39, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Endorse the above wholeheartedly. Just how is an admin doing the mind-numbing task of patrolling CAT:CSD supposed to react to a deletion rationale like This well known brand of tum antacid is now a Neelix, I'm not placid, this makes nonsense of the targ it don't make sense so thus I ask it be deleted swiftly by some admin who knows more than I (on a redirect to a French journalist) with anything other than the presumption that they've stumbled on a particularly peculiar piece of vandalism? ‑ Iridescent 19:08, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose SiTrew's humor might simply not set well with everybody. I think anyone will harmlessly resort to humor if you try to clean up a lot of Redirects. --Lenticel (talk) 01:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hmmm that is very odd. When I go to my page or something it says it must be noted on the user's talk page that there is a discussion at ANI or something like that some banner. It was certainly not noted to me so I only actually found this ANI discussion by accident. User:Lenticel does a lot of good work over at RfD clearing up east asian language redirects so I think it is fair to declare an interest there but I have never met him or her just throough Rfd. Si Trew (talk) 01:29, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- SimonTrew, you're a pal, but take care that you don't toss careless accusations, especially here. The notice on your page is here, and you replied to it here. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 01:44, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's not me tossing the careless accusations. It is not me who brought another editor to ANI to explain myself. I should like to know whose careless accusations you mean. This is not Judge Judy. As it happens this has taken a lot of time of mine away from making the encylopaedia better, needlessly. You probably do not live in Hungary and have to speek Hungarian Roma and other languages before you get a loaf of bread. I do know what I am doing. The fact that a bad faith editor, as I suspected, cannot be bothered to reply to any conversation is not my problem.
- SimonTrew, you're a pal, but take care that you don't toss careless accusations, especially here. The notice on your page is here, and you replied to it here. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 01:44, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hmmm that is very odd. When I go to my page or something it says it must be noted on the user's talk page that there is a discussion at ANI or something like that some banner. It was certainly not noted to me so I only actually found this ANI discussion by accident. User:Lenticel does a lot of good work over at RfD clearing up east asian language redirects so I think it is fair to declare an interest there but I have never met him or her just throough Rfd. Si Trew (talk) 01:29, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd prefer a detailed explanation of why each Neelix redirect should be deleted, but sadly many of them are so indescribably stupid the best explanation I've come up with is "Neelix Nonsense"TM I've CSD'd hundreds of non-existent Neelix invented words, and we meep finding them. Simon Trew's worst nom's make more sense then many of the redirects. Legacypac (talk) 05:20, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Because it is the WP:G6 Neelix concession, that was put in place for six months and that six months is nearly finished. I am sorry that my humo(u)r may not go down so well with another editor who does not seem to bother to reply to anything but all this hullabaloo is just getting in the way. I Have to make a guarded choice when I list at CSD or RfD or speedily keep, otherwise we flood the whole lot. I am fed up with explaining myself, if you want to ban me, just ban me. Si Trew (talk) 08:57, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- They won't and you won't be. And someone somewhere will continue to be treated like dirt by admins. 151.230.93.81 (talk) 10:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Just steer clear of insults, and be plain enough for admins returning from the wilderness who missed the original screening of the show. Peridon (talk) 10:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Because it is the WP:G6 Neelix concession, that was put in place for six months and that six months is nearly finished. I am sorry that my humo(u)r may not go down so well with another editor who does not seem to bother to reply to anything but all this hullabaloo is just getting in the way. I Have to make a guarded choice when I list at CSD or RfD or speedily keep, otherwise we flood the whole lot. I am fed up with explaining myself, if you want to ban me, just ban me. Si Trew (talk) 08:57, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose SimonTrew is doing an excellent job and should be lauded for his non-technocratic style.--The Traditionalist (talk) 13:47, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Liz has kinda criticised me on my talk page for having a few reverted this morning and I think it is only fair to notify that admin of the conversation here. I am just trogging through them and don't get everything right. Si Trew (talk) 10:27, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes she does seem to have got her teeth into you 151.230.93.81 (talk) 12:26, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Liz has kinda criticised me on my talk page for having a few reverted this morning and I think it is only fair to notify that admin of the conversation here. I am just trogging through them and don't get everything right. Si Trew (talk) 10:27, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose I made a comment Here - Point is that those who are deleting Neelix redirects will eventually get hoisted by their own petard. They are actually doing more harm than good. Tumorous titties obviously refers to Breast Cancer...Typing it into google, even with a typo confirms this...someone at google must think providing such a link is a good idea...Can someone answer, without pontificating, why we think it is a bad idea?...Ironically Neelix's problem was that he too underestimated how humourless many wikipedians are...anyways none of what I have said is any reason to ban/block or admonish anyone. Bosley John Bosley (talk) 12:54, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Bosley John Bosley, have you actually bothered to read what you're opposing? You're writing in support of Neelix, yet by opposing putting a brake on nominating his creations for deletion with joke rationales you're implicitly agreeing that they're not only pointless but so pointless as to be worthy of derision. ‑ Iridescent 13:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Plus, BJB, you clearly haven't the foggiest idea how Google works. EEng 13:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Er yes...the Irony was not lost on me...so much so that I added "Ironically" after my first read through...I thought Google was based on an recursive algorithm... Bosley John Bosley (talk) 13:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- What Google's based on defies explanation here, but it sure has nothing to do with what "someone at Google must think" about various things. EEng 13:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...Hmm...setting me up to fail there were you. Guardian articles have been hidden by Google... "someone at Google must think" it would be wise to take into account the EU's right to be forgotten. I think it might be you who needs the fog clearing. Bosley John Bosley (talk) 14:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- You're setting yourself up just fine all by yourself. The article you link was about Google being ordered to suppress certain search results, which has nothing to do with "what someone at Google thinks" about a given result's worth. Anyway, this has nothing to do with why "tumerous titties" leads to info on breast cancers, which was via an automated process, obviously. EEng 17:16, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...Hmm...setting me up to fail there were you. Guardian articles have been hidden by Google... "someone at Google must think" it would be wise to take into account the EU's right to be forgotten. I think it might be you who needs the fog clearing. Bosley John Bosley (talk) 14:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- What Google's based on defies explanation here, but it sure has nothing to do with what "someone at Google must think" about various things. EEng 13:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Er yes...the Irony was not lost on me...so much so that I added "Ironically" after my first read through...I thought Google was based on an recursive algorithm... Bosley John Bosley (talk) 13:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Plus, BJB, you clearly haven't the foggiest idea how Google works. EEng 13:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Neutral. I hate having to be neutral on this, especially since I am quite familiar with Mr. Si Trew and like him. But ... Vitreous (boss) wasn't created by Neelix. It was tagged by Si for deletion due to being a Neelix redirect, but wasn't created by or even touched by Neelix. My cautious side makes me think that if there was one erroneous tag, others could have happened. Steel1943 (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
@Steel1943: you're probably right but it was on the infamous Anomie list. I do check the hist and look up but I get it wrong occasionally. It still makes no sense so it is better off deleted. It is not as if it is vitreous enamel. Si Trew (talk) 20:57, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
OP posting personal attacks in edit summaries
- moving to new thread Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Leonard Culi
Hi. I am having some issues with Leonard culi (talk · contribs · logs). The editor persistently fails/ignores to update timestamps despite messages at their talkpage, thus introducing factual errors in a BLP. Examples include [122], [123], [124] and much more.
The reason I bring this here, is because the editor was created when 217.73.143.130 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) was blocked for a month, after persistently doing the same thing and shorter blocks where not helping. Also today a very similar IP adress 217.73.143.145 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) was editing the exact same articles in the same discruptive manners.
Articles are many, including
and I think it would be better with a block instead of semi-protection as it spans over several articles. Perhaps a rangeblock (if possible) and perhaps the account should also be blocked?
I leave the decisions up to admin, but in my mind something has to be done. Qed237 (talk) 18:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Could someone please take a look? Qed237 (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Bump. Qed237 (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's been three days; he hasn't edited since your AN/I notice. No blocks now. 151.230.93.81 (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hmmm the Gyergii Muzakii is not Hungarian that would be Gyorgy Musak or something so these are all a bit nonsense Turkish? Not sure they are are any good at English Wikipedia. Tirana is the capital of Albania so it could be Albanian language but I am not sure these make much sense in English WP. Si Trew (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yep these are all albanian. I think we can keep the ones without accents but the ones with the cedialla and so on
- It's been three days; he hasn't edited since your AN/I notice. No blocks now. 151.230.93.81 (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Erjon Vuçaj and Erjon Vuçaj make no sense as a useful search term in English Wikipedia. Si Trew (talk) 21:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oops this is my fault mea culpa I thought I was over at RfD. None of these are redirects. I dunno why they are at ANI I just came across them because I hang around at RfD, but yes these are all Albanian. Si Trew (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- What, yu lookin' for work or sumthin'?! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 22:26, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oops this is my fault mea culpa I thought I was over at RfD. None of these are redirects. I dunno why they are at ANI I just came across them because I hang around at RfD, but yes these are all Albanian. Si Trew (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Persimmon plc
IP blocked. (non-admin closure) GABHello! 16:05, 15 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi - Please can an administrator have a look at Persimmon plc. An IP keeps adding walls of opinion about the company. I have already reverted it once as has another editor. Thanks, Dormskirk (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have blocked for 31 hours for reasons described at User talk:176.249.158.119. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Aggressive revert warring of a possible COI user
New Valery Surkoff (talk · contribs) instantly reverts cleanup tags from the bio they created. The page is an orphan, so probably nobody sees it. Please intervene. I can no longer reinsert them, because I will be in 3RR violation. Judging from this account activity in internet elsewhere and from the zealous attitude to the article I suspect COI. Staszek Lem (talk) 19:09, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, you are both edit warring so I posted notices to both of your talk pages. Valery Surkoff is a very new editor and I think it's important to provide them with information about editing. Right now, almost all of the messages on their talk page are warnings from you. This article, Dmitry Polyakov, needs the participation of more editors and hopefully this notice will bring some attention to it. LizRead! Talk! 19:18, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Liz, I think it's a poor idea to warn users who do their best to contain some highly disruptive editing, and then come here for help. Valery Surkoff had repeatedly removed tags about the lack of references (it's a BLP totally without references) and about the article being an orphan, with some very strange edit summaries,[125] and Staszek Lem had restored these tags. The removals were so disruptive that I'd invoke common sense on that score.
- If you'd like to take on explaining things in a simple manner to Valery Surkoff, that would be great. I tried to explain my block today for continued edit warring, but I guess they didn't understand, and understandably weren't in the mood to. As you say, they're very new, and they're also very aggressive. They said at the AfD that the disagreement about keeping/deleting the article was "similar to the third world war",[126] and have offered an absurd conspiracy theory about tag teaming against them at WP:ANEW.[127] Maybe you can talk them down. I'm inclined to share Staszek Lem's suspicion of COI, but possibly just a fan. Bishonentalk 15:45, 13 May 2016 (UTC).
- It is rather unbelievable to have such an aggressive fan of a classical music performer nowadays. Think parent or boyfriend, or even self. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
User:MehrdadFR
User:MehrdadFR is a very problematic editor, who does not appear willing or ready to reform his behavior.
- On the article Public executions in Iran, he has consistently removed well-sourced information from the human rights organization Amnesty International[128], using edit summaries like "rv propaganda", "rv professional liar", "removed false and propagandist material"
- On the page Violence against LGBT people, he removed an image of regarding the execution of two Iranian teenagers (Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) that allegedly engaged in homosexuals acts with the edit summary "pedophile rapists".[129]. After the image was restored by User:Good Olfactory, Mehrdad removed it again without explanation.[130]
- In Hijab by country, blanked non-controversial information pertaining to Iran without explanation.[131]
- On the page Ahmad Vahidi, remove well sourced information that this individual is wanted by Interpol for his alleged involvement in the AMIA bombing, falsely citing WP:BLP in his edit summary.[132]
What can be done regarding this problematic editor? Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:49, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm afraid only problematic editor here is Plot Spoiler. Point by point:
- There's an explanation Talk:Public executions in Iran#False claims about alleged "beheading in Iran" which is pure fantasy and unfounded in Iranian law (fully available online). When someone is insisting on disputable information and avoiding conversation on talk page, then we can surely speak about propaganda intentions.
- Removing image from Violence against LGBT people was consulted with administrator Good Olfactory (here and here).
- It was blanked because it was biased and without sources. I personally rewritten edited whole section based on first-class academic sources.
- In article Ahmad Vahidi nothing was removed, sourced information that this individual is wanted by Interpol exists below in text and there's no any dispute about it. Only issue I see is putting it in WP:LEAD because there are much more important information for leading section.
- Issues related to Plot Spoiler's editing can be seen here on UANI history where he systematically tries to censor all criticism. Similar problems exist here and so on. --MehrdadFR (talk) 02:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- And even after this request, MehrdadFR is engaging grossly POV editing, like this[133]. Plot Spoiler (talk) 02:45, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- And continues to engage in WP:edit warring and remove well-sourced information on Public executions in Iran without proper talk-page discussion, edit summaries, and against consensus.[134]Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:14, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- He needs to get blocked for his BLP violating edit summary. On this talk page he shows a google page as evidence of his claim, which I won't repeat, problem is, this page doesn't support his claim in the slightest.KoshVorlon 16:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:KoshVorlon, whilst I agree that many of MehrdadFR's edits reasons are needlessly judgemental and PoV, and at times bizarre, in fact HRW and AmnInt do accept that the two young men hanged PROBABLY engaged in non-consensual sex with the 13 yr old boy (though is a 14 yr old a paedophile?). Pincrete (talk) 19:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Again, Mehrdad grossly violating policy by calling using "pedophile" appellation for executed individuals, without even proper references[135]. Plot Spoiler (talk) 22:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- He needs to get blocked for his BLP violating edit summary. On this talk page he shows a google page as evidence of his claim, which I won't repeat, problem is, this page doesn't support his claim in the slightest.KoshVorlon 16:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Mehrdad seems to be an Iranian nationalist attempting to whitewash his country.142.105.159.60 (talk) 00:24, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- According with MehrdadFR's edits, he/she has some sort of WP:COI to deleting sourced material without any explanation more than "its bias or propaganda", material which has sources of respectable universities, organitations or newspapers, all in articles about Iran. Like this edit [136]. Rupert Loup (talk) 09:19, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
- As far as I can see everything was explained two years ago, but still there are individuals who are persisting in pushing outdated misinformation. --MehrdadFR (talk) 04:04, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Lowercase sigmabot III is malfunctioning
The bot is deleting my talk section deleted diff, in the talk page Talk:2013_Egyptian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat. I don't understand why the bot deletes the entries, they are neither old or resolved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samir-the-fair (talk • contribs) 12:01, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's curently set to archive threads not replied to after fifteen days. Which means the bot is not malfunctioning; it just means that no-one has replied to your post since. Happy Sunday!FortunaImperatrix Mundi 12:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've expanded the time to 30 days. In the meantime, I'll look through and figure out where everything should be. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 16:48, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think I've got everything. FYI Samir-the-fair, when material is archived by Lowercase sigmabot III, it still exists in archives, and is not deleted. If you would like to prevent a thread from being archived, you can add a new timestamp (using five tildes
~~~~~
), and the material will not be archived until 30 days after that. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 16:57, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Iridescent should be removed as an editor
Iridescent has not been and will not be removed as an editor. Cop77, please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's policies before bringing further complaints. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi Wikipedia
I wrote an article about an algorithme, that I have developed while working on a project. I posted the working code, so anybody could see it was working. However to my big surprise I received a notice from wikipedia saying that the user by the name Iridescent had deleted the article based on A11? I invented an algorithme, it is working fine (the code I provided in the article prove that). Beside that the article was written in danish and I am sure Iridescent doesn't speak danish so he wouldn't understand anything of the article. Based on those 2 facts I strongly advice you to remove Iridescent as an editor.
Regards David Hyldkrog — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cop77 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Context here, and the article in question is David Hyldkrogs algoritme. Note that (1) the article is written entirely in Danish, (2) there's an obvious conflict of interest, and (3) Cop77explicitly states that this is something he made up four days ago. ‑ Iridescent 20:39, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- OK, this was closed before I got my free shot at Iridescent--no fair. Censorship! What, Iridescent, you don't speak Danish? And you call yourself an administrator??? Favonian, please file the paperwork for this desysop--in Finnish of course. Drmies (talk) 02:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive editing at linguistics articles
The original problem is long resolved. This has descended into a slanging match and is achieving nothing (though Drmies' last word is worth reading). Fences&Windows 00:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've come across a pattern of disruptive editing at linguistics articles, notably at Hruso language and Sholaga language. In both of these articles, editors are edit warring to restore various kinds of inappropriate content. Shaiful Ali is adding lengthy notes about what sort of material ought to be added to the article at Hruso language, visible here for instance, while Av1995 has added large amounts of material having nothing whatever to do with the actual language at Sholaga language, visible for example here. This is being done as part of a school project, conducted by Chuck Haberl. The matter was raised at ANI a while ago (see here for the previous discussion), but nothing has been done to stop the ongoing disruption. I think some kind of intervention is needed, as this has become an aggravating problem for editors concerned with linguistics articles. At the very least, it would be proper to request that Chuck Haberl encourage his students not to edit disruptively. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 05:30, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hi, Excuse me. I am Av1995. I am not editing disruptively at all. I was told to research about the language and very little is known about Sholaga, yet however more information is known about the people who speak the language. So my research has highlighted that. To conclude, the final assignment was to compile my research onto the wiki stub. All of the information I have put on the page has to do with Sholaga or about it's speakers, the Soliga tribe. My categories are: classification of the languge(Sholaga), names of the language other than Sholaga, The Soliga Tribe which I have clearly provided information about as the speakers of the language, Geographical Distribution which is where the language is spoken, examples being words translated from english to sholaga, and current events which includes how the Soliga Tribe's children who speak Sholaga are being assimilated into society. Lastly I end with my references and external links. I have shown you how every single section relates to the language Sholaga and therefore should in no way be considered inappropriate or disruptive to the current topic of the article. Please stop deleting my edits as I have not put all of the info up as a waste of time. I spent time researching and learning about the language too. If you want to, you may reference my links to question my information. But this is a very strict request to stop taking all my edits away. Thank you.
- Av1995, there are two obvious ways that your edits at Sholaga language have been disruptive. Firstly, you have added content that has nothing to do with the Sholaga language, for instance, "The Soliga tribe used the penis of the Sambar deer to treat hydrocele. They also used the flesh of the House crow to treat anemia. The Soliga Tribe is extremely intelligent and knows much about their environment and the use of resources in its community." That is a very good example of something that does not belong in an article about a language. It is not linguistic information. The fact that it relates to the speakers of the language does not make it appropriate to a specifically linguistic article. Secondly, you have refused to discuss the issue on the talk page, and have reverted multiple users after they removed your additions. You reverted Kwamikagami here and me here. That is not an appropriate thing to do. If your edits are reverted, you need to discuss the dispute on the talk page, especially when multiple editors revert you. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 06:22, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I did not make the entire article about that? That was one section of my edit. And I am new to wikipedia so I apologize if I did something wrong. I am unfamiliar on how to talk on the talk page. However, only the two of you have reverted me. Av1995 (talk) 06:27, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- The Soliga's use of the penis of the Sambar dear to treat hydrocele is non-linguistic information. It does not belong in an article about a language at all. The fact that you did not completely fill up the article with information about the medical uses of animal penises does not make it appropriate. The talk page of Sholaga language can be found here. Click on the blue word "here" and it will take you to the page. You should have raised the issue on the talk page as soon as you were reverted. Respecfully, multiple users reverting your edits is generally considered a good reason to stop making the edit on Wikipedia. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 06:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Av1995: FHC is correct - you are being disruptive. I've left a message on your talk page explaining our policy on edit warring and the three-revert rule. We were all new here once and we understand you're a student. However, you are in danger of being blocked from editing, so stop this blind reverting and listen to what the other collaborators are trying to tell you. Katietalk 09:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm the instructor in question. FHC summoned me to this conversation. I've been working for several months now with Adam Hyland and the Wiki Education Foundation, and I've noticed a pattern of disruptive behavior as well.
- An inexperienced (but well-meaning) editor makes changes to a stub page;
- An experienced (but overzealous) editor reverts all of the new editor's revisions, often without explanation, but sometimes with abusive language (such as claiming that edits made in good faith are actually "disruptive," "unencyclopaedic," or "graffiti," in the hopes of flagging the new editor for punitive measures);
- The new editor either gives up, frustrated beyond hope, and never makes another edit ever again, or re-reverts the perplexing and ill-explained reverts, opening herself to punitive measures. The overzealous editor(s) then uncharitably declares this to be a "revert war" (despite knowing that they are likely dealing with a new editor operating in good faith) and use the new editor's lack of experience to get her blocked from editing.
- This is *not* collaborative. It is, in fact, the very opposite of collaboration. It's obvious to me, with all the prurient discussion of deer penises above, that you have an excellent idea of what is "unencyclopaedic" and what is "encyclopaedic," exceeding that of the average newcomer; if you had spent as much time removing only these elements as you clearly have spent trying to get my students punished, then Wikipedia would have some new editors, a few more collaboratively-edited articles, and a whole lot more good will. That is obviously not the tack that you have decided to take here.Chuck Haberl (talk) 13:41, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm the instructor in question. FHC summoned me to this conversation. I've been working for several months now with Adam Hyland and the Wiki Education Foundation, and I've noticed a pattern of disruptive behavior as well.
- @Av1995: FHC is correct - you are being disruptive. I've left a message on your talk page explaining our policy on edit warring and the three-revert rule. We were all new here once and we understand you're a student. However, you are in danger of being blocked from editing, so stop this blind reverting and listen to what the other collaborators are trying to tell you. Katietalk 09:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hi folks. I'll take a look at the activity above and check back shortly. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:29, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Without a comment on the quality of the edits or the nature of the response, these issues can be defused if students don't edit to re-insert their contributions without taking to the talk page first. That's hard, because it puts the onus on the new editor to recognize what is happening, why and engage and allows the more experienced editors to wait and review changes. But if a contribution has multiple problems which might merit heavy revision or removal and it is reverted, re-inserting it will only make the communication problem harder. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:37, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Adam (Wiki Ed), why don't student editors simply work on Draft articles or ones in their User space? Then, their instructor can see their work but they won't run into obstacles that occur when they try to make big changes on narrowly defined subjects. Then the instructor or a Wikipedia volunteer can make suggestions or point out problems in their work and the new editors won't run into experienced, "overzealous" editors who are just trying to protect the project. LizRead! Talk! 16:45, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Liz. That's normally our suggestion for work like this where a student aims to completely overhaul a page or create a new one. We were not involved with the course when it started up initially and reached out to Chuck in the course of the semester. I suspect that future classes where students use on our training and materials from the start will more heavily involve user sandboxes. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I was originally inclined along those lines, but the tutorial you guys asked me to follow suggested that it was better to get the students involved in editing Wikipedia directly as fast as possible (or did I get something horribly, horribly wrong?). It would have gone better for these students if they had started by making incremental changes to the page first, as I suggested from the start of the semester, rather than large scale revisions at the very end, but as it happens there is currently no way for faculty to mandate that students complete their work in advance rather than submitting it only when it is due.
- Hi Liz. That's normally our suggestion for work like this where a student aims to completely overhaul a page or create a new one. We were not involved with the course when it started up initially and reached out to Chuck in the course of the semester. I suspect that future classes where students use on our training and materials from the start will more heavily involve user sandboxes. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Adam (Wiki Ed), why don't student editors simply work on Draft articles or ones in their User space? Then, their instructor can see their work but they won't run into obstacles that occur when they try to make big changes on narrowly defined subjects. Then the instructor or a Wikipedia volunteer can make suggestions or point out problems in their work and the new editors won't run into experienced, "overzealous" editors who are just trying to protect the project. LizRead! Talk! 16:45, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is actually the third year I've run this course, and just about every aspect of it works better each year EXCEPT for the Wikipedia part. The first year, in which there were only 30 students and I could monitor things more closely, worked quite well, but the following two years have been trying, to put it lightly. My sense is that the more engaged editors here prefer the stark, clean lines of a stub to what they perceive as amateurish edits, so they revert first and ask questions later. Students panic (because they perceive the other editors' interventions as vandalism), they re-revert, and then the veterans escalate the situation and I get emails (and the ones from Wikipedia editors are seldom very pleasant when it comes to intruders on "their" territory). It basically leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
- At its base, it's a problem with the culture, more than anything else. In future years, I'll host a private wiki on our learning management system (we use Sakai) and let the students do their thing without provoking these kinds of unavoidable conflicts.Chuck Haberl (talk) 04:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Chuck Haberl, it is quite clear that your students have been editing disruptively at multiple articles. I have attempted, at the talk pages of both Hruso language and Sholaga language, to explain to your students why their edits have been problematic. Shaiful Ali simply ignored me at the talk page of Hruso language, while I had a short and unproductive exchange with Av1995 at the talk page of Sholaga language. Shaiful Ali and Av1995 have both edit warred to restore their changes, and in both cases they've done this even after being reverted by multiple users. That is disruptive behavior. Pointing that out is simply pointing out a fact, not being "abusive". I agree that one has to exercise some tolerance and understanding with new users, but that is different from defending disruptive editing, as you unfortunately appear to be doing. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 01:18, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- For crying out loud... you're the one who has appointed yourself "guardian" of these pages, you should have put in a token effort to make yourself clear to the new editor, if you were going to take the responsibility in the first place. And calling a couple of reverts an "edit war" is pretty rich.Chuck Haberl (talk) 04:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Chuck Haberl: FreeKnowledgeCreator and the other editors put in much more than a token effort to explain the changes to Sholaga language, both in the edit summaries and on the talk page. The student's explanation for what appeared to every wikipedian involved as disruptive editing, was:
- "[I] was only trying to keep it as the way I had edited it because my professor had said he would grade our finals today and that page was my final."
- True, this doesn't seem to have happened on the majority of the pages edited by the other students in this project, but it nevertheless leads me to think that similar incidents could in future be prevented if it's emphasised to students that their contribution will be graded regardless of whether it sticks around or not. Uanfala (talk) 13:55, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have indeed emphasized that exact point at several points throughout the semester, Uanfala.Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:08, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- I would not, however, go so far as to say that all of the other editors put in even a token effort. The stage was set when, after three days of sustained edits on the part of my student, ALL of her effort was summarily reverted by one of your veteran editors, who justified his move with only a few words in the in-group house jargon of a certain class of Wikipedia editors ("rv. non-encyclopedic edits and content forking"). This immediately put her on the defensive and the rest is history.
- I appreciate that Wikipedians have aspirations to professionalism, but this is so far removed from my own professional experience both as a writer and an editor, having contributed entries to reputable, peer reviewed journals, and edited entire scholarly volumes as well as authored monographs and journal articles, that I'm not sure what standard of "professionalism" the Wikipedian community is aiming for. If I or one of my past editors had treated a submission made in good faith in the cavalier way that he routinely does, we would likely not have a job in our industry for very long. Editing requires much more than just an encyclopedic content knowledge, it demands patience and close reading, and by reverting my students' work in this manner, he has paradoxically demonstrated that these are attributes he is lacking. Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well perhaps you should be a better teacher then. If your students are routinely editing disruptively by Wikipedia's standards, they should probably ask for their money back. Really now, one of them thought 'use of penis' was acceptable in a linguistics article? That is so far beyond a joke. Here is a quick tip: 1st lesson of editing wikipedia - if material you add is removed, do not keep replacing it without talking to someone competent. Although really from the examples listed it looks like they did speak to multiple competent editors, they just did not listen. In short, your students are required to adjust to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not required to adjust to your students. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:01, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hah, hah! "You should be a better teacher!" "They should probably ask for their money back." My sides! Highly original, no educator has ever been told that before! Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm quite proud of my students. There were over 120 registered for this course this semester, and near as I can tell, the overwhelming majority made material contributions to the articles on a variety of endangered languages. I've just graded them. It would appear that only one or two engaged in plagiarism, and inadvertently at that (that is, they freely copied and pasted passages of text, but with attribution, which they felt gave them some degree of cover. They were wrong, but they weren't intending to deceive). Those passages were struck down rather quickly and they were informed of their transgression.
- Your criticism is where you really fall short of the mark. For all I know, Only in death does duty end, you could in fact be an award-winning educator. If that were the case, though, you'd understand that education isn't just a data dump, from a "sage on a dais" into a pool of passive and completely receptive students, but rather a collaborative process whereby the educator facilitates the students' learning and assesses their progress as they gradually acquire competency in the material. As much as I would like to give every student an "A," at the end of the day some simply won't become conversant in the subjects covered by the course, and their grades have to reflect that. That's ultimately on them, not me; my students are all adults and most of them know that they have to take responsibility for their own performance. That's really what separates adults from children, more than anything they could possibly learn in my classroom.
- That's leaving aside the question of whether you've actually ever had the pleasure of taking one of my courses. Chances are that you have not. In 14 years of teaching I've probably only had a thousand or so students. Given that you likely have no direct knowledge of my profession or of me as an educator, you're probably not in a position to criticize anything. Get back to me once you've accomplished as much as I have in the classroom or you've actually seen me in action. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Get back to me when you get off your high horse. You are running a course that requires (and I assume gives credit for) editing wikipedia. It is not even close to being on the scale of a worthwhile use of a students time. And editing badly judging by the above. Your student's editing is directly related to your quality of teaching. Since you have failed in a not insignificant number of occasions to teach them basic editing skills, and you yourself lack a basic understanding of Wikipedia processes, from BRD through to editor interaction and civility, even the most novice of editors can criticise you. Let us not mention you clearly edited articles on which you had a blatant conflict of interest, so add COI to the list. You yourself state you have the same problems with your students editing wikipedia year after year. Well given the students change, frankly that is your fault. So please stop bleating about how great an educator you are, because all the evidence displayed so far does not support that conclusion. Only in death does duty end (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Only in death does duty end. There are no high horses here, only facts. This course syllabus, including the exercise, has been evaluated first by my department's Curriculum Committee (consisting of my peer educators in the department), the school-wide Curriculum Committee (which consists of educators specifically elected to that body by the faculty at large), the school-wide Core Curriculum Committee (which consists of educators appointed specifically for that purpose by the Executive Dean of the school), developers at the Office of Instructional and Research Technology (since it has an online section), and finally by popular vote of the faculty at large in our meeting at the end of each semester. This assignment and the course itself had to jump through all these hoops (five by my count) before it could run for the first time, and it has been running for three years now with remarkably few incidents like this. I think I'll trust the professional opinions of all these educators about what is and what is not a worthwhile use of a student's time over that of some random person on the internet.
- Now, you tell me, which is more arrogant? A professional educator who has been teaching for over a decade, explaining what he does for a living, or someone who apparently doesn't understand even the basics of how higher education works but nonetheless feels entitled enough to lecture professionals about it? You should really stick to lecturing people about editing Wikipedia, at least you've demonstrated some level of proficiency at that, as opposed to anything else. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:21, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I forgot to add the good folks at the Wiki Education Foundation, which exists solely to facilitate incorporating Wikipedia into classroom exercises such as mine, and with whom I've been working over the past few months. Apparently there are a few things about Wikipedia that even I can teach you! Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:24, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Get back to me when you get off your high horse. You are running a course that requires (and I assume gives credit for) editing wikipedia. It is not even close to being on the scale of a worthwhile use of a students time. And editing badly judging by the above. Your student's editing is directly related to your quality of teaching. Since you have failed in a not insignificant number of occasions to teach them basic editing skills, and you yourself lack a basic understanding of Wikipedia processes, from BRD through to editor interaction and civility, even the most novice of editors can criticise you. Let us not mention you clearly edited articles on which you had a blatant conflict of interest, so add COI to the list. You yourself state you have the same problems with your students editing wikipedia year after year. Well given the students change, frankly that is your fault. So please stop bleating about how great an educator you are, because all the evidence displayed so far does not support that conclusion. Only in death does duty end (talk) 18:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hah, hah! "You should be a better teacher!" "They should probably ask for their money back." My sides! Highly original, no educator has ever been told that before! Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well perhaps you should be a better teacher then. If your students are routinely editing disruptively by Wikipedia's standards, they should probably ask for their money back. Really now, one of them thought 'use of penis' was acceptable in a linguistics article? That is so far beyond a joke. Here is a quick tip: 1st lesson of editing wikipedia - if material you add is removed, do not keep replacing it without talking to someone competent. Although really from the examples listed it looks like they did speak to multiple competent editors, they just did not listen. In short, your students are required to adjust to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not required to adjust to your students. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:01, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- I appreciate that Wikipedians have aspirations to professionalism, but this is so far removed from my own professional experience both as a writer and an editor, having contributed entries to reputable, peer reviewed journals, and edited entire scholarly volumes as well as authored monographs and journal articles, that I'm not sure what standard of "professionalism" the Wikipedian community is aiming for. If I or one of my past editors had treated a submission made in good faith in the cavalier way that he routinely does, we would likely not have a job in our industry for very long. Editing requires much more than just an encyclopedic content knowledge, it demands patience and close reading, and by reverting my students' work in this manner, he has paradoxically demonstrated that these are attributes he is lacking. Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Chuck Haberl, the student who worked on Sholaga language must have had access to JSTOR. Perhaps you can point them to http://www.jstor.org/stable/603185, which looks (relatively speaking) like a goldmine. Drmies (talk) 02:38, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, I'll definitely let him know. Hopefully our institution has access to that journal through our subscription to JSTOR. If not, there's always ILL.Chuck Haberl (talk) 04:07, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Chuck, these articles should be tagged as works in progress at Rutger's so that (a) people know to leave them alone for the time being and (b) we can keep track of them to clean them up later. This was agreed to last year when we had the same problem. — kwami (talk) 03:48, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- Isn't that what the tags on the talk page do? If a student editor behaves as if they aren't aware their contribution will be graded regardless of whether it gets reverted, I think it might be up to us to remind them. Uanfala (talk) 22:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know who "agreed" to that, but I'm opposed to anything in articlespace being marked as a "work in progress", and even more strongly opposed to any article not being able to be edited because some student is fiddling with it. We can accommodate students by having them copy the articles they're working on into userspace and having them work on them there, or they can work on them in mainspace and the instructor can monitor their contributions (and whether they're accepted) through the article's history, but under no circumstance should we present to the public an article that we know has mistakes in it, but that we're waiting for the "all clear" to fix. That's not what we're about. Our responsibility to the general public to present accurate information completely outweighs any responsibility we may have to students and their teachers - and, frankly, students are learning nothing at all about editing Wikipedia if they do it without being exposed to the give-and-take cf communal editing. BMK (talk) 01:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- And Chuck Haberl: Wikipedia is sui generis. Its rules and culture make it unlike any other kind of writing experience you may have had. We are not a peer-reviewed journal, we are not (generally speaking) experts, and because of that, we have rules which (we hope) help to guarantee a quality product without those things.If, for instance, a freelance writer used to publishing in general interest periodicals was to try to get something published in a peer-reviewed journal, I imagine that they might be as put off by the very different set of requirements in place there as you seem to be by the requirements of Wikipedia. Writing and editing here is not like writing and editing anywhere else, which really should be core of what you're teaching your students: drop you preconceptions, and learn what this new and different circumstance requires of you. No one's going to baby your students, most of us don't have time for that, but generally wew will explain things if we're approached nicely. However, if you come to us kicking and screaming because your contributions were immediately deleted because they sucked and weren't referenced (or whatever), we're not going to be inclined to lend a hand. Again, that's your responsibility to teach your students, and if you're not telling them that right off, you're not doing the job that needs to be done. BMK (talk) 01:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I and Adam (Wiki Ed) actually made that abundantly clear, on multiple occasions to the 120 students participating in this exercise, and I'm rather proud that most of the students successfully got the message and made substantial, positive contributions to Wikipedia. So far, two students have been called out for "disruptive editing," which is a tiny fraction of the whole involved in this exercise. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Kwami, I actually asked the students to tag these articles accordingly, as you requested we do last year, but your fellow editors protested this time around and had taken most of the tags down within a day or two. Sounds to me like a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Chuck Haberl (talk) 19:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I and Adam (Wiki Ed) actually made that abundantly clear, on multiple occasions to the 120 students participating in this exercise, and I'm rather proud that most of the students successfully got the message and made substantial, positive contributions to Wikipedia. So far, two students have been called out for "disruptive editing," which is a tiny fraction of the whole involved in this exercise. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- And Chuck Haberl: Wikipedia is sui generis. Its rules and culture make it unlike any other kind of writing experience you may have had. We are not a peer-reviewed journal, we are not (generally speaking) experts, and because of that, we have rules which (we hope) help to guarantee a quality product without those things.If, for instance, a freelance writer used to publishing in general interest periodicals was to try to get something published in a peer-reviewed journal, I imagine that they might be as put off by the very different set of requirements in place there as you seem to be by the requirements of Wikipedia. Writing and editing here is not like writing and editing anywhere else, which really should be core of what you're teaching your students: drop you preconceptions, and learn what this new and different circumstance requires of you. No one's going to baby your students, most of us don't have time for that, but generally wew will explain things if we're approached nicely. However, if you come to us kicking and screaming because your contributions were immediately deleted because they sucked and weren't referenced (or whatever), we're not going to be inclined to lend a hand. Again, that's your responsibility to teach your students, and if you're not telling them that right off, you're not doing the job that needs to be done. BMK (talk) 01:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know who "agreed" to that, but I'm opposed to anything in articlespace being marked as a "work in progress", and even more strongly opposed to any article not being able to be edited because some student is fiddling with it. We can accommodate students by having them copy the articles they're working on into userspace and having them work on them there, or they can work on them in mainspace and the instructor can monitor their contributions (and whether they're accepted) through the article's history, but under no circumstance should we present to the public an article that we know has mistakes in it, but that we're waiting for the "all clear" to fix. That's not what we're about. Our responsibility to the general public to present accurate information completely outweighs any responsibility we may have to students and their teachers - and, frankly, students are learning nothing at all about editing Wikipedia if they do it without being exposed to the give-and-take cf communal editing. BMK (talk) 01:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Actually after seeing this interaction On Chuck's talkpage I think there are bigger problems. 15zulu left a politely worded notification regarding Chuck's students and was met with sarcasm and abuse. Problems appear to be deeper than merely competence on the part of the editors, when the instructor evidences such disdain for Wikipedia's rules and community. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:26, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- There was absolutely nothing polite about 15zulu's message, it was a condescending and unnecessary intervention, and it only went downhill from there. If he had restricted his comments to Wikipedia policy, that would have been fine, but he decided to lecture me on academic integrity, something about which faculty members and students alike are reminded multiple times every semester. It's a bit like walking into a tailor's shop and lecturing the tailor on the craft of sewing. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In all fairness, Chuck, I'm sure that's the way you remember it, but here's what really happened:
- 15zulu: "Fyi, I have reverted one of your students edits on Martha's Vineyard Sign Language due to the edits being straight copy-paste. This is copyright infringement and against Wikipedia policy. Just like students can't plagiarize on their essays, they can't plagiarize on their Wikipedia contributions. Please encourage your students to use their own words, to paraphrase, instead of copy-pasting. Thank you"
- You: "Holy shit, 15zulu, you mean to tell me that issues of academic integrity don't only apply to the essays that students submit in class? Say it ain't so! I've been teaching for 14 years and apparently I've been doing it wrong this whole time! I just told them to copy and paste whatever and not to worry about properly attributing anything. Thank you, thank you, thank YOU 15zulu for finally opening my eyes!"
- So, you did indeed respond to 15zulu's polite attempt to help out what he thought was a relatively inexperienced editor (not knowing about your User:Leo Caesius account dating from 2004) with flat-out sarcasm. The discussion didn't "go downhill from there", you pushed it right to the bottom of the hill from your very first comment. It's quite apparent that you see any criticism or even a helpful suggestion as an attack on you, personally, and your abilities as an educator. I don;t know why that is, but it can be seen all over your talk page. BMK (talk) 19:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- He immediately stated that he believes that am I perfectly content with students committing plagiarism here and implies very strongly that I have been advising them to do so. I really don't see how that's at all "polite." Chuck Haberl (talk) 20:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, Chuck, he neither said nor implied any such thing, although you may have taken it that way. Unbiased observers can see his exact words, and your all-out sarcastic blast of a response, above, or read the entire discussion on your talk page here and form their own opinions. Someone came by to help, and you hit him on the head with a shovel. BMK (talk) 20:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The condescending tone that he adopted right from the start (and continued throughout his discussion) was neither helpful nor appropriate. How exactly is the advice "FYI your students are plagiarists, stop telling them to plagiarize their Wikipedia assignments" supposed to be helpful? I'm just not seeing it. It's like helpfully advising someone that wife-beating is against the law.
- If there had been an epidemic of plagiarism among my students, it might be appropriate to drop a message to the instructor to see what's up, but out of roughly 120 students (this year), near as I can tell there were only one or two such incidents (ever), inadvertent rather than deliberate. Kindly help me out here! Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, Chuck, he neither said nor implied any such thing, although you may have taken it that way. Unbiased observers can see his exact words, and your all-out sarcastic blast of a response, above, or read the entire discussion on your talk page here and form their own opinions. Someone came by to help, and you hit him on the head with a shovel. BMK (talk) 20:52, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- He immediately stated that he believes that am I perfectly content with students committing plagiarism here and implies very strongly that I have been advising them to do so. I really don't see how that's at all "polite." Chuck Haberl (talk) 20:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- In all fairness, Chuck, I'm sure that's the way you remember it, but here's what really happened:
- There was absolutely nothing polite about 15zulu's message, it was a condescending and unnecessary intervention, and it only went downhill from there. If he had restricted his comments to Wikipedia policy, that would have been fine, but he decided to lecture me on academic integrity, something about which faculty members and students alike are reminded multiple times every semester. It's a bit like walking into a tailor's shop and lecturing the tailor on the craft of sewing. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- All right, BMK, let me explain how 15zulu's intervention first appeared to me, since that seems to be the crux of the misunderstanding here.
- I created this profile a year ago solely for the purpose of this course, after more or less abandoning my old Wikipedia profile due to an organized campaign to trash it online. I have used this current profile for one or two other projects, but for the most part I'm only interested in using it to help students in this course. I tell my students to keep an eye out for it to let them know that I'm monitoring their submissions.
- 15zulu then posted an FYI on the Talk page associated with this course. From my perspective, it was if as if someone had walked into my classroom while I was lecturing, and announced to me and my students, "I can see that you're not really familiar with the Academic Integrity policy here. Might I suggest that you reacquaint yourself with it, and tell your students so they stop plagiarizing?" The visitor was apparently unaware that Academic Integrity policies are the one thing to be found on every course syllabus these days, as well as just about the only subject that gets addressed in each and every course offered on college campuses these days, from Astrophysics to Zoology. Adjudicating incidents of plagiarism and other violations of Academic Integrity are probably the one thing with which each and every faculty member will have to deal, at multiple points throughout his or her career, and probably on multiple occasions throughout each academic year. In short, it's like telling fish to be aware of the water surrounding them.
- Perhaps you begin to see why pretty much any faculty member would be shocked at being told that their students "can't plagiarize on their Wikipedia contributions," especially in so public a venue (the profile that the instructor has informed them will be responsible for supervising them). Perhaps s/he intended it to be helpful, but it just seems utterly gratuitous to me.
- When you combine this with my previous interactions with some spectacularly heavy-handed editors, and literally dozens of perhaps unnecessarily panicked emails from students who were seeing in some cases days of hard work summarily reverted without so much as a "how do you do," right in the middle of our grading period, you can perhaps see why I was simply not in the mood to be reminded for the 1,385,213th time that plagiarism is a "thing." I apologize to 15zulu for taking it out on him/her, even though I still think his/her intervention was completely and totally unnecessary. I'm willing to acknowledge that there are profound differences of "culture" between Wikipedia and a classroom, but in my defense I maintain that the space in which this intervention occurred was on the boundary between the two. Chuck Haberl (talk) 00:51, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- All very well and good, but this is not your classroom, you are the teacher to your students but not to other Wikipedia editors, and you need to assume good faith about the motivations of other editors who approach you, and not treat them as if their intention is to attack you.In any case, your students really should have known in advance that such things could happen to them, and were even likely if their work wasn't up to snuff. Several times you've attributed reversions of your students' work to "heavy handed" Wikipedia editors, but you seem not to have taken onboard the simple fact that their responsibility is not to you or your students, their only responsibility is to make articles as good as they can be, and if that means the work of your students is wiped out (regardless of where they are in the grading period), then it was your responsibility, and that of nobody else, to explain to your students why it happened, and to teach them how to avoid it happening in the future. As I said above, sure, we're interested in assisting educators to teach their students how to edit Wikipedia, but that cannot be at the expense of the quality of the material we present to the public. It is our readers that we have an obligation to, not to your or your students, who must be secondary considerations.I have frequently heard it said that to a certain extent, a teacher in the classroom is like the captain of a ship at sea, and that great leeway is given them in how they go about teaching. But you must face the fact that here, you are not the master of your own domain, here you have the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. You said above that you've done this kind of thing for several years, and it gets better every year except for the Wikipedia part, with the clear implication that something about Wikipedia was impeding the smooth flow of your program. I think, perhaps, you might consider that the impediment is not Wikipedia (I've been here since 2005, and it essentially hasn't changed in those years) but your apparent unwillingness to accept the precepts of Wikipedia when it crosses over into your professional domain. I would assume that the folks at WikiEd bend over backwards to make these education projects work, but it's entirely unreasonable to expect the whole Wikipedia community to change the way it does things so that your students can be graded. BMK (talk) 01:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, I haven't been seeing a lot of good faith assumed here, particularly among some of the more enthusiastic reverted, and it is absolutely, positively not true that any of us are given anything approaching "great leeway" in the way we teach. Ignoring for the moment the vast majority of faculty who are in insecure adjunct lines and don't have leeway over anything, education, including higher education, is probably the most heavily regulated industry in the country, with faculty answerable to multiple and competing levels of authority with regard to the content and delivery of their courses. You seem to have a very strange idea of what we do. Chuck Haberl (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'll take your word on that, as I have no particular expertise in education. Perhaps you, in turn, might like to take my word regarding the ins and outs of Wikipedia, as after 11 years and over 188K edits to almost 35K unique pages, I think I have a pretty good handle on the place, even if I do sometimes have problems coloring within the lines myself. BMK (talk) 02:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, I haven't been seeing a lot of good faith assumed here, particularly among some of the more enthusiastic reverted, and it is absolutely, positively not true that any of us are given anything approaching "great leeway" in the way we teach. Ignoring for the moment the vast majority of faculty who are in insecure adjunct lines and don't have leeway over anything, education, including higher education, is probably the most heavily regulated industry in the country, with faculty answerable to multiple and competing levels of authority with regard to the content and delivery of their courses. You seem to have a very strange idea of what we do. Chuck Haberl (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- All very well and good, but this is not your classroom, you are the teacher to your students but not to other Wikipedia editors, and you need to assume good faith about the motivations of other editors who approach you, and not treat them as if their intention is to attack you.In any case, your students really should have known in advance that such things could happen to them, and were even likely if their work wasn't up to snuff. Several times you've attributed reversions of your students' work to "heavy handed" Wikipedia editors, but you seem not to have taken onboard the simple fact that their responsibility is not to you or your students, their only responsibility is to make articles as good as they can be, and if that means the work of your students is wiped out (regardless of where they are in the grading period), then it was your responsibility, and that of nobody else, to explain to your students why it happened, and to teach them how to avoid it happening in the future. As I said above, sure, we're interested in assisting educators to teach their students how to edit Wikipedia, but that cannot be at the expense of the quality of the material we present to the public. It is our readers that we have an obligation to, not to your or your students, who must be secondary considerations.I have frequently heard it said that to a certain extent, a teacher in the classroom is like the captain of a ship at sea, and that great leeway is given them in how they go about teaching. But you must face the fact that here, you are not the master of your own domain, here you have the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. You said above that you've done this kind of thing for several years, and it gets better every year except for the Wikipedia part, with the clear implication that something about Wikipedia was impeding the smooth flow of your program. I think, perhaps, you might consider that the impediment is not Wikipedia (I've been here since 2005, and it essentially hasn't changed in those years) but your apparent unwillingness to accept the precepts of Wikipedia when it crosses over into your professional domain. I would assume that the folks at WikiEd bend over backwards to make these education projects work, but it's entirely unreasonable to expect the whole Wikipedia community to change the way it does things so that your students can be graded. BMK (talk) 01:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm unclear on how I should take Chuck's apology to me since even though I've chosen not to speak to him since the 7th, he's continued to insult and attack me across three different pages, including this note less than a day ago:
- It is a source of some small amusement to me that, after BMK and 15zulu paid visits to my Talk page to leave highly condescending and hostile messages, I discover that they have marked this page for deletion! Funny that it has basically sat around for ten years already with relatively little attention from editors until today. I guess these guys talk a good talk about "integrity" on Wikipedia but they don't actually walk it, misusing their volunteerism here to settle personal scores. "Nice little page you gots here, it would be a shame if it were NOMINATED FOR DELETION if you knows what I mean..." Sad!
To be clear, I only saw Charles Häberl because he edited his user page, which had the link. Since I had been conversing with him, I had the user talk page on my watchlist, thus his userpage edit appeared on my watchlist. When he commented on the lack of notability, I reviewed WP:PROF. Since I didn't find clear notability, I added the appropriate template, so references and notability would be added. I didn't mark his article for deletion, and given he voted for the article to be deleted, I'm unclear on why he's attacking me. He called my messages "highly condescending and hostile", but honestly, he should first look at his own writing. Given his continued attacks, I have a hard time believing his above apology to be sincere. 15zulu (talk) 07:10, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- So much for "needing to assume good faith" ... Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Chuck, WP:AGF doesn't mean I should assume a vandal is trying to help after he vandalizes a dozen articles. It also doesn't mean I need to AGF after you make a dozen hostile remarks against me. 15zulu (talk) 21:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Very well, I can see I'm not going to "win" here, and indeed there's nothing to "win" here, so I'll leave you to it. I'm not quite sure how vandals come into the equation, though. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:29, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's called a comparison Chuck. When you try to argue AGF, first look at how you've responded to me. AGF doesn't require me to believe your qualified apology – perhaps if you left it just at an apology, but you qualified it to say that 'I still believe zulu was at fault'. I find it amusing that you now claim that your students "inadvertently" plagiarized because they didn't know better than to copy/paste but attacked me over it. Regardless, I'm happy your course is over. I'd suggest
that next time you have your students edit Wikipedia, that you remind than that "inadvertent" plagiarism isn't allowed on Wikipedia,but given that last time you didn't assume good faith and found such a suggestion as hostile, I'm refraining from making it. My apologizes for my past "hostile" remarks. Cheers, 15zulu (talk) 01:09, 15 May 2016 (UTC)- Thanks, 15zulu. To clarify, though, what rankled me so much was your presumption that educators such as myself (or perhaps just me in particular for some reason) don't educate our students about plagiarism. By the time they've come to me, they've already had 12+ years of education, at which point you'd think this topic might have been covered once or twice. I know you think you have a "gotcha" moment here, or so you're presenting it, but in the link you've cited I was merely defending myself against a rather obvious personal attack on my professional qualifications, which (for some reason) I find myself forced to do again and again here, as your own link demonstrates up-thread. I'm not asking you to understand why I was so sarcastic towards you, but perhaps having read the exchange above, you'll have a deeper appreciation of what it's like to be an educator in America and have your credentials and professional abilities continually assessed and challenged on a regular basis, which is not really the case for any other occupation here. Nobody watches a bunch of Hong Kong action films and decides that they can throw down with a black belt in kung fu, but there's a widespread attitude here and elsewhere that, just because you've taken a few classes or read a few books, you are automatically an expert on the subject and furthermore can teach as well as the next person, and therefore you need no special experience or qualifications to be an educator or criticize educators. Some politicians, including my own governor, have built their careers on this premise. So, if I've been a little trigger happy here, I'm not asking you to excuse me, but perhaps give a thought or two to where I and other educators are coming from.
- Likewise, as I stated quite clearly in the passage you linked, just because a student has plagiarized doesn't mean we should automatically assume a conscious deception on their part, merely laziness. That doesn't make it any less wrong, but no investigation of a breach of academic integrity is complete without an understanding of the circumstances surrounding it. That's how we identify what we call "teachable moments." The learning process would be impossible if our responses to such situations weren't tailored to their circumstances. I hope that's clear.
- Wikipedia has its own growing role in academic integrity violations. A few years back, a student once printed out and submitted an entire Wikipedia article, complete with blue hyperlinks, as his own work. Part of what I'm trying to accomplish with this course is acknowledging the role that Wikipedia is already playing in informing my students and their work, and trying to get ahead of it. Chuck Haberl (talk) 14:01, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- It's called a comparison Chuck. When you try to argue AGF, first look at how you've responded to me. AGF doesn't require me to believe your qualified apology – perhaps if you left it just at an apology, but you qualified it to say that 'I still believe zulu was at fault'. I find it amusing that you now claim that your students "inadvertently" plagiarized because they didn't know better than to copy/paste but attacked me over it. Regardless, I'm happy your course is over. I'd suggest
- Very well, I can see I'm not going to "win" here, and indeed there's nothing to "win" here, so I'll leave you to it. I'm not quite sure how vandals come into the equation, though. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:29, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Chuck, WP:AGF doesn't mean I should assume a vandal is trying to help after he vandalizes a dozen articles. It also doesn't mean I need to AGF after you make a dozen hostile remarks against me. 15zulu (talk) 21:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- So much for "needing to assume good faith" ... Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Sockpuppet
In this edit, Chuck Haberl writes:
...I've been creating and editing numerous Wikipedia articles since January of 2006, mostly under another account (not associated with my real name; I use this account only for my students).
This means, of course, that either the Chuck Haberl account or the other account is a sockpuppet. BMK (talk) 01:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I see nothing in the Legitimate uses section of the Sockpuppetry policy which covers Haberl's situation, but maybe someone from WikiEd can clarify? BMK (talk) 01:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Haberl's undeclared account appears to be User:Leo Caesius, considering the reasons given here. BMK (talk) 03:55, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, BMK. I think it's ridiculous to try and get an account created explicitly and exclusively for grading class projects, using the instructor's real name, banned as a "sockpuppet," but I can see where you're coming from. Specifically, you noted on my Talk page, "None of this would have occurred were it not for your piss-poor attitude towards Wikipedia's editors, and your intransigence at working with the community to collegially solve the problems caused by your students' disruptive editing, as evidenced by the discussion above, and the one on ANI. There's no need to lash out at others, all this is entirely of your own making," thus making it clear that you are doing this for retributive reasons. "Nice little Wikipedia user account you've got here, it would be a pity if anything were to happen to it, if you catch my drift"! Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- And the beat goes on, Chuck. Keep digging that hole. There is no "retribution", merely an attempt to have a wayward editor follow Wikipedia policy. If someone wants to propose that it's legitimate for current Wikipedia editors to be allowed to create new accounts under there own names for educational purposes without linking to their personal account, and the community agrees to that, it's fine with me, but at the moment, your use of an undeclared alternate account is not covered by the "Legitimate uses" section of the policy. Perhaps this case will provoke that change, we'll see. In the meantime, a less confrontational and supercilious attitude from you to other Wikipedia editors -- like the poor one who tried to give you some tips about editing on Wikipedia because they thought you were inexperienced, only to be met with sarcasm and denigration from you [137] -- would certainly be a welcome change. BMK (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- As I said to you on my Talk page, don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining. The "poor editor" in question wasn't "trying to give me tips about editing on Wikipedia," he was trying to explain Academic Integrity to me. That's a horse of a very different color. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Incidentally, you don't get to threaten me with a ban from Wikipedia, attempt to eliminate any mention of me from the website, and then suggest that I should be "less confrontational." Less confrontational than whom? You've already pulled all the stops and used the nuclear options. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Since I don't have the ability to "ban" you (only the community can do that), or even block you for that matter, as I'm not an admin, I cannot "threaten" to do either of these things. I do not, in fact, have access to the "nuclear option", being a mere rank-and-file editor. I have merely pointed out to you the potential results of an SPI report, should you decline to link your two accounts, [138] while admitting that perhaps your case might instigate a further legitimate use of an alternate account, if the community wants that. As for trying to expunge you from the encyclopedia, you yourself !voted to delete the article Charles Häberl, as it was a "personal embarrassment" to you and "hilariously out of date". [139] I did think that was rather odd, since you had edited the article previously with your Leo Caesius account (which you now de facto admit is yours [140]) and therefore could have kept it up to date, since editing with a conflict of interest doesn;t seem to bother you much. (Most of your edits as Leo Caesius can easily be seen to be conflicted.)As for whatever is making your shoes wet, you might try considering that it's neither rain nor my urine but your own crocodile tears, considering that none of this would have occurred if you had simply properly supervised your students, and responded civilly to the complaints of other Wikipedia editors about their disruption. Instead, you chose to be confrontational - which appears to come to you naturally (me as well, sometimes) - and thus began the brouhaha. BMK (talk) 19:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I reiterate: dubbing an account made, using someone's actual name, for the explicit purpose of editing student submissions, as a "sockpuppet" does such violence to that word as it is conventionally understood that it loses all meaning. You might as well dub any and all accounts made for any and all purposes to be "sockpuppets."
- As far as my "supervising" my students better, I am actually proud of the work that they have done, the overwhelming majority of which have materially improved the pages that they have adopted, and therefore Wikipedia as a whole. That a few students encountered some difficulties and reacted poorly in the face of a few far-too-aggressive editors is only natural.
- Your problems with my "attitude" boil down basically to my lack of respect for a few editors who have themselves been far from respectful or collegial to their fellow editors, and have more or less embarked upon a rather personal vendetta to see me banned from Wikipedia, contrary to your protestations. Chuck Haberl (talk) 19:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- As I said on your talk page, this discussion now serves little purpose, as you cannot see (or admit) where you might be at fault, and are content to blame everything on all the bad guys out there attacking you, so I don't plan on participating any longer, since there's little hope of change through further discussion. I'll give you a few days to think about what's gone down here, and perhaps reconsider, and then I'll file an SPI, as you have two accounts which are not linked and which do not fulfill the requirements of the "legitimate uses" section of the policy. That may result in an amendment to the policy, or it may result in one of your accounts being blocked. If you're lucky, the adjudicating admin may see things your way and allow both accounts to stand - but since your User:Leo Caesius account has now been identified, I fail to see where linking them would cause you any problem - except that you would no longer be able to make edits with it that violate the WP:COI policy. BMK (talk) 19:50, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Since I don't have the ability to "ban" you (only the community can do that), or even block you for that matter, as I'm not an admin, I cannot "threaten" to do either of these things. I do not, in fact, have access to the "nuclear option", being a mere rank-and-file editor. I have merely pointed out to you the potential results of an SPI report, should you decline to link your two accounts, [138] while admitting that perhaps your case might instigate a further legitimate use of an alternate account, if the community wants that. As for trying to expunge you from the encyclopedia, you yourself !voted to delete the article Charles Häberl, as it was a "personal embarrassment" to you and "hilariously out of date". [139] I did think that was rather odd, since you had edited the article previously with your Leo Caesius account (which you now de facto admit is yours [140]) and therefore could have kept it up to date, since editing with a conflict of interest doesn;t seem to bother you much. (Most of your edits as Leo Caesius can easily be seen to be conflicted.)As for whatever is making your shoes wet, you might try considering that it's neither rain nor my urine but your own crocodile tears, considering that none of this would have occurred if you had simply properly supervised your students, and responded civilly to the complaints of other Wikipedia editors about their disruption. Instead, you chose to be confrontational - which appears to come to you naturally (me as well, sometimes) - and thus began the brouhaha. BMK (talk) 19:28, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Incidentally, you don't get to threaten me with a ban from Wikipedia, attempt to eliminate any mention of me from the website, and then suggest that I should be "less confrontational." Less confrontational than whom? You've already pulled all the stops and used the nuclear options. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- As I said to you on my Talk page, don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining. The "poor editor" in question wasn't "trying to give me tips about editing on Wikipedia," he was trying to explain Academic Integrity to me. That's a horse of a very different color. Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- And the beat goes on, Chuck. Keep digging that hole. There is no "retribution", merely an attempt to have a wayward editor follow Wikipedia policy. If someone wants to propose that it's legitimate for current Wikipedia editors to be allowed to create new accounts under there own names for educational purposes without linking to their personal account, and the community agrees to that, it's fine with me, but at the moment, your use of an undeclared alternate account is not covered by the "Legitimate uses" section of the policy. Perhaps this case will provoke that change, we'll see. In the meantime, a less confrontational and supercilious attitude from you to other Wikipedia editors -- like the poor one who tried to give you some tips about editing on Wikipedia because they thought you were inexperienced, only to be met with sarcasm and denigration from you [137] -- would certainly be a welcome change. BMK (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, BMK. I think it's ridiculous to try and get an account created explicitly and exclusively for grading class projects, using the instructor's real name, banned as a "sockpuppet," but I can see where you're coming from. Specifically, you noted on my Talk page, "None of this would have occurred were it not for your piss-poor attitude towards Wikipedia's editors, and your intransigence at working with the community to collegially solve the problems caused by your students' disruptive editing, as evidenced by the discussion above, and the one on ANI. There's no need to lash out at others, all this is entirely of your own making," thus making it clear that you are doing this for retributive reasons. "Nice little Wikipedia user account you've got here, it would be a pity if anything were to happen to it, if you catch my drift"! Chuck Haberl (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Haberl's undeclared account appears to be User:Leo Caesius, considering the reasons given here. BMK (talk) 03:55, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Logically speaking, either the account that I created under my own name explicitly for reviewing and editing submissions for this class is a "sockpuppet" of Leo Caesius (which is ludicrous, given that Sock Puppetry is by definition "the use of multiple Wikipedia user accounts for an improper purpose"), or the account that I created over ten years ago is a "sockpuppet" of an account that was only created last year (which is ludicrous, given that it would involve time travel on my part). So, which is it? You might want to get this part straight for the purposes of your report against me. Chuck Haberl (talk) 20:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you Chuck, when I need your advice on Wikipedia matters, I'll be sure to ask you for it explicitly. BMK (talk) 20:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, honestly, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I am genuinely confused at what appears to be a logical impossibility. Kindly help me out! Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Your misunderstanding stems from your misconceptions about the sockpuppetry policy. We call them "sockpuppets" but what we mean by that is not "disruptive secondary accounts", as you interpret it, but "secondary accounts which do not have a legitimate purpose allowed by policy". Many sockpuppets are, indeed, disruptive, but it's not a necessary part of being a sockpuppet. For instance, a blocked or banned user could create another account or use an IP to mnake perfectly reasonable and helpful edits to the encyclopedia, but regardless of their value, these would be the edits of a sockpuppet, although the edits themselves were not per se disruptive.You hold two accounts which are both editing. The User:Leo Caesius account was the original one, and the User:Chuck Haberl account is a more recent creation. The accounts are not publicly linked, as required by policy, nor does the current account by the current letter of the policy fulfill one of the allowed legitimate uses for a secondary account. I have been quite open in saying that policy might want to be amended to allow the kind of use you're engaged in, and also in saying that an admin may well dismiss an SPI on the basis that while your account doesn't fulfill the letter of the policy, it is a de facto legitimate use. Until one of those things happens, though, (and the second is only going to happen after I file an SPI and it is evaluated), your alternate account is not legitimate, and therefore a violation of policy.Don't get hung up on the word "sockpuppet". Both accounts are run by you, but neither account is you: one is you anonymous and cloaked, and one is you upfront about your identity. There is therefore no logical fallacy in saying that User:Chuck Haberl is currently a sockpuppet of User: Leo Caesius as far as Wikipedia is concerned, because the more recent account is neither linked to the first, not is it (currently) fulfilling one of the legitimate uses allowed by policy. That could change, of course, but the easiest thing would be for you to simply link the two accounts. Of course, you could no longer make the kind of conflict of interest edits you made when you were anonymous as Leo Caesius - to the article about you, and your department at Rutgers, for instance - because it would be clear that that account is run by you, but the linkage would fulfill policy and negate the need for an SPI. You seem to not be willing to consider that as an option, although I'm not sure why. BMK (talk) 21:45, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- By way of explanation, BMK, I'd really rather not link my (now largely defunct) original Wikipedia profile to my "professional" profile, because the former has been irredeemably tarnished online. I used to link the two (see revisions prior to 2010, for example this one) but after some unfortunate edit battles (most notably over nakedly Islamophobic content on Park51) some other Wikipedians adopted the "Leo Caesius" identity (which was, up until that point, more or less unique to me online) and subscribed to a series of online forums for the likes of white supremacists and pedophiles. There was a point around 2011 when you could google "Leo Caesius" and some pretty nasty shit would come up. After that point, I more or less gave up on Wikipedia until I started teaching this course and sought to distance myself from my former profile.
- The edits on the page about me and my department can be explained by the fact that this was the only account that I had at the time, and indeed the only account I had up until last year. At that point I was much more up front about connecting it to my professional identity, as you can see from the previous revisions on my old user page. I will admit that the edits on the page about me seemingly reflect a conflict of interest, but I only made them because I was frustrated that a) the page was ridiculously out of date and b) occasionally vandalized by disgruntled former students and/or other editors. For the last five years, I haven't bothered making any edits to that page with any account. Chuck Haberl (talk) 22:32, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then why not take my very first piece of advice to you and scramble the password of the Leo Caesius account (after requesting that the user page be deleted and clearing the talk page) so you can't use it, and continue to edit from the current account? Then, knowing now what the issues are, don't create another "personal" account without linking them or making sure that the policy has been changed to allow you not to link them? And don;t make COI edits with that account. BMK (talk) 22:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Your misunderstanding stems from your misconceptions about the sockpuppetry policy. We call them "sockpuppets" but what we mean by that is not "disruptive secondary accounts", as you interpret it, but "secondary accounts which do not have a legitimate purpose allowed by policy". Many sockpuppets are, indeed, disruptive, but it's not a necessary part of being a sockpuppet. For instance, a blocked or banned user could create another account or use an IP to mnake perfectly reasonable and helpful edits to the encyclopedia, but regardless of their value, these would be the edits of a sockpuppet, although the edits themselves were not per se disruptive.You hold two accounts which are both editing. The User:Leo Caesius account was the original one, and the User:Chuck Haberl account is a more recent creation. The accounts are not publicly linked, as required by policy, nor does the current account by the current letter of the policy fulfill one of the allowed legitimate uses for a secondary account. I have been quite open in saying that policy might want to be amended to allow the kind of use you're engaged in, and also in saying that an admin may well dismiss an SPI on the basis that while your account doesn't fulfill the letter of the policy, it is a de facto legitimate use. Until one of those things happens, though, (and the second is only going to happen after I file an SPI and it is evaluated), your alternate account is not legitimate, and therefore a violation of policy.Don't get hung up on the word "sockpuppet". Both accounts are run by you, but neither account is you: one is you anonymous and cloaked, and one is you upfront about your identity. There is therefore no logical fallacy in saying that User:Chuck Haberl is currently a sockpuppet of User: Leo Caesius as far as Wikipedia is concerned, because the more recent account is neither linked to the first, not is it (currently) fulfilling one of the legitimate uses allowed by policy. That could change, of course, but the easiest thing would be for you to simply link the two accounts. Of course, you could no longer make the kind of conflict of interest edits you made when you were anonymous as Leo Caesius - to the article about you, and your department at Rutgers, for instance - because it would be clear that that account is run by you, but the linkage would fulfill policy and negate the need for an SPI. You seem to not be willing to consider that as an option, although I'm not sure why. BMK (talk) 21:45, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, honestly, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I am genuinely confused at what appears to be a logical impossibility. Kindly help me out! Chuck Haberl (talk) 21:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you Chuck, when I need your advice on Wikipedia matters, I'll be sure to ask you for it explicitly. BMK (talk) 20:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Very well, BMK, I've gone and taken your advice, and there is no further reason for you to waste your time filling out an SPI Report out on me. <redacted> 17:27, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Egos all around
Looking into my crystal ball, I foresee a Huffington Post or Slate article about how a well-intentioned and potentially useful class project, which could have brought good editors into the fold permanently, foundered on the rocks of misunderstanding, biting, posturing, pissing, dickmeasuring, and generally egos out of control. EEng 22:22, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Does Slate run those stories? A few things are clear to me. Egos get hurt easily. That's the students' egos, as I think is clear from the two linked language articles; understandable, since as students they are more inclined to think of their work as their work. When BMK starts using bold and italics, you know he's all worked up. Professor Chuck had a particularly nasty exchange with one of our editors where his initial satirical response to a well-intended question set the tone for the rest. (Congrats on the Berlin Prize, by the way: I'll trade you my summer classes for a stay in that lovely house.)
How I wish that profs would all run their projects through Wikipedia:Education program, with the proper tags on the talk pages (no opinion here on whether they were placed and then removed--please don't remove those), so regular editors can figure out if someone is in a class or not. It took me too long to find https://dashboard.wikiedu.org/explore, and that list there does not tell me whether our professor Chuck is in there; he may well be.
As for the socking, I think having the two accounts is perfectly understandable--and they should be linked of course, but perhaps a good reading of WP:ALTACCN is helpful.
This whole thing is not an easy situation to solve. The students were disruptive and edit warring, the prof was belligerent, bad words were spoken on all sides--I propose that we consider all of it below the blockable level, because blocking would just make things worse (better for Slate maybe). I do propose that prof Chuck communicate more, and more better, and prepare his students for the social, interactive part of Wikipedia. And then there's his article--well, we'll let the AfD take its course. Good luck everyone. Drmies (talk) 04:46, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for the congrats. I've been trying to get away from teaching and admin work so I can finally write, which is why most people get into higher ed, but which becomes a distant memory after the first few semesters of work. This prize finally gives me the first opportunity to get off campus and get some research done in a very long time, at least since I was last in Yemen in 2012.
- I'm trying to appreciate things from the perspective of the long-term editors here, but I really can't subscribe to the notion that "the students" as a whole were disruptive. At most one or two students (out of a pool of 120, although to be fair a few had failed out before the end of the semester and opted not to participate in this exercise) raised a few red flags by re-reverting their work. I had announced, on several occasions, that I was able to see the entire edit history of their pages, but apparently that bit of information didn't "take" with those few and they panicked, assuming that they would automatically fail the exercise because someone else had swooped in and reverted their work. As I've tried to explain above, this happened with at most a tiny minority of the students, and quite a lot of the work that the others did was rather good, but a bunch of editors here seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I and the Wiki Education Foundation have trained and released a pack of angry vandals on Wikipedia with express instructions to trash the place. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:41, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't believe anyone was claiming that all your students were disruptive, just some of them, but you are are, obviously, responsible for supervising them as well as the non-disruptive ones. BMK (talk) 02:03, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Chuck, with "the students" I meant the ones discussed here in this thread. I don't know the others since I never saw a list of them--your having such a list helps other editors figure out what's going on (I hate using that Trumpian phrase, but it applies here). If two are a bit disruptive out of a group of 120, then your numbers are pretty damn good. Drmies (talk) 00:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm trying to appreciate things from the perspective of the long-term editors here, but I really can't subscribe to the notion that "the students" as a whole were disruptive. At most one or two students (out of a pool of 120, although to be fair a few had failed out before the end of the semester and opted not to participate in this exercise) raised a few red flags by re-reverting their work. I had announced, on several occasions, that I was able to see the entire edit history of their pages, but apparently that bit of information didn't "take" with those few and they panicked, assuming that they would automatically fail the exercise because someone else had swooped in and reverted their work. As I've tried to explain above, this happened with at most a tiny minority of the students, and quite a lot of the work that the others did was rather good, but a bunch of editors here seem to have jumped to the conclusion that I and the Wiki Education Foundation have trained and released a pack of angry vandals on Wikipedia with express instructions to trash the place. Chuck Haberl (talk) 15:41, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think the point the good professor is missing is this: No one held a gun to his head and said you must use a Wikipedia education program in your classes. As a professor, no matter how little you like it, you are PAID to teach. Everyone at Wikipedia is a volunteer. Why does it surprise you that it grinds our gears for you to get snarky because you are not doing what you are getting PAID to do and it is wasting our time that we give up for free? John from Idegon (talk) 04:35, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I must be missing something, because I'm really not sure what your point is, John from Idegon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling any of you that you have to "supervise" my students for me or volunteer your time here. I frankly couldn't have been happier if some editors had just stepped back and let me handle the students on my own, but unfortunately they intervened rather rapidly, sometimes within minutes of students submitting their edits. Evidently you all must get something out of this or you wouldn't be volunteering your time here or responding with such vigor and speed. I also don't see where you came by this strange idea that I'm not doing my job, but then again I think we've already established that some of you have some pretty weird ideas about higher education. That's pretty much why I'm "snarky," as you put it, not that snarkiness is a rare and foreign quality here. Chuck Haberl (talk) 05:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- BMK, I don't believe I ever claimed I wasn't responsible for supervising any of my students, and where it would have been more accurate to say that one or two students behaved in a manner perceived by some editors to be disruptive, that's really not how this discussion has unfolded. Chuck Haberl (talk) 05:53, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I must be missing something, because I'm really not sure what your point is, John from Idegon. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling any of you that you have to "supervise" my students for me or volunteer your time here. I frankly couldn't have been happier if some editors had just stepped back and let me handle the students on my own, but unfortunately they intervened rather rapidly, sometimes within minutes of students submitting their edits. Evidently you all must get something out of this or you wouldn't be volunteering your time here or responding with such vigor and speed. I also don't see where you came by this strange idea that I'm not doing my job, but then again I think we've already established that some of you have some pretty weird ideas about higher education. That's pretty much why I'm "snarky," as you put it, not that snarkiness is a rare and foreign quality here. Chuck Haberl (talk) 05:47, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think the point the good professor is missing is this: No one held a gun to his head and said you must use a Wikipedia education program in your classes. As a professor, no matter how little you like it, you are PAID to teach. Everyone at Wikipedia is a volunteer. Why does it surprise you that it grinds our gears for you to get snarky because you are not doing what you are getting PAID to do and it is wasting our time that we give up for free? John from Idegon (talk) 04:35, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Chuck, let me make a suggestion, for next time. On your talk page, or even on a subpage with a link from your talk page, set up a list with the account names of your students. You can have them sign in, or just sign their names, and then you have a record as well. And/or post a "welcome" template on all their talk pages--in that case your contribution history is a kind of records of the students you are supervising. I mean, I suppose you are supervising them on-wiki, one way or another, if they're doing this for a grade. Then if someone has a problem with one of their edits, they can figure out that this is one of your students, come to you. and talk it out directly. On-wiki transparency is a good thing, not only because this is a collaborative environment, but also because it makes it a lot easier to help your students. Everyone will be happier as a result. Take care, Drmies (talk) 00:28, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Problem behaviour/edits by User:L.Iorio, Dr., Ph.D.
L.Iorio, Dr., Ph.D. (talk · contribs) is, at least according to his username Lorenzo Iorio (there is a reason this page is salted, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lorenzo Iorio (2nd nomination) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lorenzo Iorio), and is treating Wikipedia as yet another platform to promote his own views concerning frame-dragging, and the surrounding theoretical and experimental results surrounding it with the biggest WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality I have ever witnessed in a published scientist ([141]).
Iorio has published several articles on the topic, and probably know more about frame dragging than many other people, myself included. However, this is a fairly contentious and controversial area in physics, at least in the sense there are major disputes with Iorio and others like Ignazio Ciufolini are going at each other with no holds barred (e.g. doi:10.1002/asi.23238). While I'm not taking a side in the dispute, this area and dispute between Iorio and Ciufolini has spilled over Wikipedia in the past (see Talk:Frame-dragging and Talk:Frame-dragging/Archive 1, Talk:Ignazio Ciufolini#Scientific misconducts, Talk:Ignazio Ciufolini#Legal actions by I. Ciufolini against L. Iorio, etc.), with several IP/sock puppets involved over several years (e.g. Gravitom et al.).
So when he recently edited frame-dragging, inserting several reference to his own publications (and this despite a promise to reduce the number of citations to his own work, I reverted with the edit summary "Clear conflict of interest, while you may comment and flag issues on the article talk page, let others improve the article per WP:COI.)" This has been discussed with him before at the teahouse (Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_480#Why I cannot edit the article on frame-dragging, which is a subject I have and I am actively contributing to?).
Of course, that made me the target of Iorio's ire, calling me 'an incompetent jerk', again despite the promise to be cooperating and diplomatic. Going by the past behaviour of socks in this area, most of them pro-Iorio, it's not a stretch of the imagination to say this behaviour is extremely unlikely to subside, and we shouldn't abide such gross violation of WP:CIVIL, WP:COI, and WP:BATTLEGROUND. Not to mention WP:PROMOTE/WP:SELF and a bunch of others as well.
So, here we are at ANI. At the very least an editing restriction on Iorio to refrain from editing frame-dragging related articles (broadly construed) is needed because the WP:COI here is just way too high, and I've got little hopes that the next person that make and edit that displeases Iorio will be treated any better than I was. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 13:07, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've notified WP:PHYS annd WP:AST of this discussion. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 13:13, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
And to no one's surprise, here are more personal attacks. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 14:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- He's received a warning against personal attacks and I agree that his editing behavior is worth looking into. But when there is a talk page discussion going on, I think it is counterproductive to leap to "I'll file an WP:ANI request to get you blocked" in response to another editor.
- Wikipedia does not have a good track record of incorporating scholars and experts as editors on the project. I would hope there would be some way to benefit from his expertise while he manages his COI and that needs to rely on communication with the editor. I'd like to hear from editors and admins who have successfully worked with academics on the project in the past to see what can be done rather than immediately reacting with another block. Liz Read! Talk! 16:07, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Warnings are rather pointless in this case. Were this a first offence, it'd be premature to call for a block/editing restrictions. But this (combined with the socking history surrounding frame-dragging), is hardly that. Conflict of interests and civility have been explained to Iorio several times already, with little effect. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:21, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Liz:, one idea I at least proposed regarding Falun Gong some years ago was for an editor other than those under sanctions to create a page or pages in his or her userspace for articles/topics which had yet to be created, which would be entirely under the direction of the editor in whose user space it is contained, which other editors could edit up to the point the pages are moved into regular space. I don't know if that sort of thing would be useful here, but, I tend to think that there are likely to be a lot of spinout articles on many of the topics academics would edit, and I suppose it might be possible to do something similar with at least articles on books, journals, academics who have written on the subject, etc. Maybe. John Carter (talk) 21:30, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is probably an off-beat suggestion, but perhaps the most obnoxious of the two could be "exiled" to Wikiversity where we are more tolerant of deviant behavior. Since both are highly competent scientists, the exiled individual would be allowed to place a prominently situated sisters link at all relevant WP articles. I love writing on Wikiversity because I get to (almost) "own" what I write; then I add a sisterlink to WP when the document is ready. Just don't send us both individuals, please.--Guy vandegrift (talk) 17:17, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Site Ban
User:L.Iorio, Dr., Ph.D. is banned from Wikipedia per the discussion here. EdJohnston (talk) 23:42, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
On the one hand, I agree in principle with User:Liz that we should be trying to increase our outreach to scholars and experts in subject-matter areas. On the other hand, it is unfortunately very clear that this particular scholar has no intention of working collaboratively with anyone else. As the above diffs show, he persists in insulting administrators (including by pointing out that they don't have scientific credentials, when they aren't trying to comment on the science) and on calling editors and administrators "jerks" and their edits "vandalizing". I would have preferred to let the physicists and astronomers comment on the merits, and I advised the subject to ask them, but he persists in the personal attacks. Unfortunately, there is such a thing as being too patient. (My own thought is that the English Wikipedia collectively is usually too patient with editors who are net negatives. That is my opinion.) I don't see any point in further warnings. I don't see any middle ground, such as a topic ban on personal attacks (already forbidden) or a topic ban from physics and astronomy (his area of strength and interest). I have to propose a Site Ban. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- a) Today, I was just editing the voice with the purpose of reducing my own citations: I first restored the version including my citations to better edit it later: indeed, I specified that in the comments to the modifications. I was just editing it by removing some citations of mine, when simultaneously Headbomb again removed all and solely my citations. b) Moreover, all here ignore (why?) the long and numerous comments by the US-based editor displaying her/his IP in either the talk page of frame-dragging, in her/his own talk page and in the Spinningspark talkpage in which she/he reiterated the request to reinstate my references.
- d) The problem is that admins, who are incompetent to judge on any aspects of that voice and on my own references as well, without any reasons vandalize the voice by deleting all and solely my references. In this way, it is as if they arrogantly claimed to have some scientific motivations to do that, which is not possible. Otherwise, it is a clear conflict of interest against myself (And the users of the encyclopedia). If some of them were convinced that there were too much citations to my works, with intellectual honesty and humbleness, they could (and should) have discussed it in the talk page first instead of brutally and arbitrarilly removing all of them. It is clear that it is this behaviour by them the cause of all this mess. L.Iorio, Dr., Ph.D. (talk) 00:29, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support as proposer. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Weak Support: Not sure about it but that's overkill. KGirlTrucker87 talk what I'm been doing 17:09, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support. Causes frustration and waste. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC).
- Comment - While I have not made up my mind quite yet, remarks such as these are not reassuring in the least. GABHello! 00:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment. I've blocked the user for one week.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:51, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support long term WP:NOTHERE behavior. It is important to go through with this for future incidents. Jytdog (talk) 03:39, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - This editor's battleground behavior and disruption outweighs any positive contribution he has made to the project. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:50, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - this editor has, through various sockpuppets, been engaging in a variety of disruptive behaviours going back years. I've run into them several times e.g. at Lorenzo Iorio and its deletion discussions, a brand new sockpuppet asked me to intervene in a dispute at LARES (the talk page of that article is instructive) etc. This is a consistent pattern of behaviour and a refusal to abide by the rules and community standards. He's treating Wikipedia as a battleground and clearly violating WP:COI, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:SOCKPUPPET and WP:BATTLEGROUND. Expert or not, Wikipedia does not benefit by allowing him to edit the encyclopaedia. Iorio would be better advised to present his scientific work in the peer-reviewed literature, and leave encyclopaedia coverage of these topics to others. Modest Genius talk 15:06, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Modest Genius: SPI is where you make claims of sock puppetry, not here.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I'm no expert on these procedures but do note the sockpuppet thread linked above. This is clearly the same person IMO. Modest Genius talk 16:01, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not sure what thread you're referring to, but after the rather egregious block evasion, perhaps your comment could be considered prescient.
--Bbb23 (talk) 22:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- This one: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Gravitom/Archive. Modest Genius talk 10:47, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not sure what thread you're referring to, but after the rather egregious block evasion, perhaps your comment could be considered prescient.
(Personal attack removed) Dr. Lorenzo Iorio, Ph. D. 79.33.195.26 (talk) 19:33, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support site ban based on the grossly inappropriate comment from what seems to me to might be perhaps more deserving of the insults he gave than anyone else here. I have had some, minimal, experience with academics and others who have had widely publicized material that they produced which related to their edits. Many of those experiences indicated that the individual in question was incapable of adhering to conduct guidelines. The IP comment above makes it rather obvious that at least that individual qualifies as such as well. And, FWIW, in the few cases I immediately remember of academics who insisted on editing content directly relevant to their own studies, pretty much all of them suffered the same fate, and justifiably, much to my own regret. John Carter (talk) 19:39, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Personal attack removed) Dr. Lorenzo Iorio, Ph. D. 79.33.195.26 (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- You apparently have little if any understanding of civility, as per WP:CIVILITY. Noting that basic civility is also in general a requirement for the real world, your incompetent, foul-mouthed comments here make it very extremely questionable whether you are qualified to be an editor here, or, for that matter, whether you are ever competent at interacting with real people anywhere else. What I and the rest of the editors here want, is you to indicate that you are an adult by your actions here. I have seen nothing to date which leads me to believe you are capable of doing so. John Carter (talk) 20:08, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Personal attack removed) 79.33.195.26 (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- You apparently have little if any understanding of civility, as per WP:CIVILITY. Noting that basic civility is also in general a requirement for the real world, your incompetent, foul-mouthed comments here make it very extremely questionable whether you are qualified to be an editor here, or, for that matter, whether you are ever competent at interacting with real people anywhere else. What I and the rest of the editors here want, is you to indicate that you are an adult by your actions here. I have seen nothing to date which leads me to believe you are capable of doing so. John Carter (talk) 20:08, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Personal attack removed) Dr. Lorenzo Iorio, Ph. D. 79.33.195.26 (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support obviously, after the above rant, and expressive language which I normally am not bothered by, but on a noticeboard? Really? Arrogant sod is WP:NOTHERE -Roxy the dog™ woof 20:04, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Personal attack removed) Dr. Lorenzo Iorio, Ph.D. 79.33.195.26 (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Support Yuck! I generally think it is good to have professionals and accademics editing Wikipedia articles I am even inclined to cut such editors considerable slack because expert knowledge is important to this project and dealing with non-experts in one's own field can be trying. That said, this person's behavior here is odious - I would not put up with it from a colleague, an instructor or even a child. PS - someone please range block this guy. JbhTalk 20:22, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - Considering the above block evasion and personal attacks.... We don't need people like this. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 20:24, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I've blocked the IP above for blatant block evasion, and warned this editor that next time is likely to be an indef. I don't otherwise have an opinion as to the sanction discussed here. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support. Anyway, I don't think this is really Dr. Lorenzo Iorio, Ph. D., since an actual academic expert and molder of young minds would never act so childishly. Also, his English is way below the level one would expect from a member of the international physics community. Probably it's just some jealous rival impersonating him so as to embarrass him. Someone should probably write to his institution to bring this to the attention of the authorities there, so they can assist him in preventing his further humiliation by whomever it is that's actually doing this. EEng 20:52, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- His own website indicates that he is currently a school teacher, not an university academic. Modest Geniustalk 10:44, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support per the number of {{RPA}} tags there are in just this thread. Whether or not the user behind the removed attacks is or is not actually Dr. Iorio, the user's behaviour is clearly not intended to contribute to building an encyclopedia. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 20:57, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - They've been given ROPE and pretty much used it all .... It's clear that despite this being a collaborative project they're not interested in working with anyone ...., Siteban's the only next best option IMHO. –Davey2010Talk 21:05, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Whatever usefulness this editor had was lost in the sea of incivility. Arguments can be made for how we got to this point, and what we can do to prevent it from happening in the future, but the point stands that this editor no longer has any desire to be a contributor. The sock puppeting is only going to continue until they are range-blocked. It's a formality at this point. --Tarage (talk) 22:18, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support I will accept for the sake of discussion that this person may be a great physicist. For all I know, they will soon win the Nobel Prize in Physics. If so, congratulations to them. But as a Wikipedia editor, this person is a total failure because of the destructive free will decisions they have made. Not only are they a failure here on this project, but they are actively and consciously pernicious. We are much better off without them. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:45, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support had their ROPE and used it, and having to constantly remove these personal attacks proves their inability to be civil -- samtar talk or stalk 18:54, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - Pile on support. This should be snow-closed with a site ban. BMK (talk) 17:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support- It's somewhat hard to believe that this user has any formal education due to their rigid unwillingness to work with other users; he is clearly not here to contribute positively or work with others. Even on the one thread you'd think he'd be civil. At this point, an IP/site ban would suit the case. They refuse to cease sockpuppeting. I'm all up for an educated, intelligent, well-versed person here; his attitude outweighs any positive addition he may have made. Zia224 (talk) 00:36, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment - The comment has been made that the person may not really be a scientist. It doesn't matter. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:27, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support, it's a shame to do this to someone with such specialised knowledge who really ought to be an asset to the project. However, edits like this and this are poisonous and toxic, and do an incredible amount of damage to the spirit of collaboration that we try to foster here. Lankiveil (speak to me) 05:37, 15 May 2016 (UTC).
Hullaballoo Wolfowitz posting personal attacks in edit summaries
Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is prohibited from interacting with SimonTrew. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz is also warned that further uncivil comments directed towards any editor will result in a block. Mike V • Talk 13:41, 15 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- NOTE: I had posted this in a thread above that Hullaballoo Wolfowitz had opened a few days earlier, but someone in a roundabout way suggested it should be its own thread, so I've moved it here. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 22:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Someone who's been around for 10 years ought to know better than to blatantly attack editors through the use of insulting edit summaries, yet treat yourself to this sampling of insult-laden reverts by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz over the last few days:
I made note of these in a thread above a couple days ago: (some have been deleted)
- "rv idiocy"
- "it's evident that the nom is either utterly irresponsible or competency-challenged"
- "per WP:COMPETENCE" (implying that the editor is incompetent)
- "per WP:COMPETENCE" (again)
Since then the abusive summaries have continued:
- "absolute blithering incompetence"
- "idiocy"
- "wretchedly stupid"
- "phony and dishonest deletion tagging"
Hullaballoo has directed their ire at one particular editor involved in tagging Neelix-related redirects for cleanup, and while User:SimonTrew could perhaps be seen as being a little bit overzealous in his deletion tagging, there is no way he deserves to be repeatedly subjected to being called "wretchedly stupid", "phony and dishonest", and an "idiot". Notwithstanding the subthread above, I propose that Hullaballoo Wolfowitz be banned from interacting with SimonTrew. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 19:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well to me it is just pissing on your own bonfire. If you are going to make an argument make it WP:CIVILly. Si Trew (talk)
- I think it is fair to mention to admins that the user you mentioned started this conversation at ANI but has never replied to it (I dunno why). Si Trew (talk) 20:54, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support as no editor deserve to be repeatedly insulted like this, especially someone doing good faith cleanup. There are more insults along the same lines in various recent RfDs as well. Legacypac (talk) 20:55, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support as proposer, in case it wasn't obvious. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 21:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support and support block. This is unacceptable. --Tarage (talk) 22:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support and I think further comments like that towards anyone will be actionable under our NPA policy. HighInBC 22:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support. Civility must be maintained. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC).
- Neutral: PA's are subjective. But based upon the links above, I don't find them particularly offensive. This might just be another example of the civility police trying to wrap people up in cotton wool. Then again, it might be harassment. Either way, I'm not aware of the history. CassiantoTalk 23:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - No one gets a free pass from maintaining proper civility, and this is obviously not a one-time incident. GABHello! 23:18, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support - We all lose our shit at times but the repeated abuse at SiTrew is completely unwarranted, If you disagree with an editor you then discuss it with them ..... –Davey2010Talk 23:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Was also personal attacked by editor.Clubjustin (talk) 23:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support with a warning that further personal attacks – directed at anyone – will result in a block. HW has been posting bad faith comments about TTN at AfD, too: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Maximals. If this keeps up, we may need to topic ban HW from all deletion processes. It seems as though he has trouble contributing to them civilly. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:03, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support Pretty clear cut case of NPA to me. I think a strongly worded warning is needed, if this continues perhaps an admin should issue a block? --Cameron11598 (Converse) 03:33, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose, of course. This isn't really about civility. Over the last few years, I've regularly been called far worse things without anyone being willing to take action, This is about deletion practices, and an attempt to intimidate a user who resists overly aggressive deletion proposals. Nobody took umbrage when the now-permabanned harasser Scalhotrod spents months calling me things like "Useless, lazy Editor [who] refuses to AGF and check references on their own, prefers own personal knowledge of porn".[142] Porn publicist Rebecca1990 has quite often called me "dishonest".[143] Nobody gets upset. Right above here, an editor gratuitously accuses me of "bad faith" for a position I've taken and stated consistently for yours, and have often achieved consensus support for. But that's OK with so many of you. You may also note that my supposed victim states, above and elsewhere, that I "has never replied" to comments he's made in this and various related discussions/ That's an evident falsehood, but that doesn't disturb you. He's falsely accused me of "reverts any discussion at my user talk page, the discussion at the user's talk page, or anywhere else sensible" -- even though I've never reverted his posts on any talk page, and even though he's never posted to may talk page, despite his claims otherwise. Even worse, up in the underlying ANI discussion I opened, he complains that I did not give him notice of the ANI discussion. Not only did I do so, but he responded to my post there by saying he had deliberately ignored it.[144] (Note that the OP here dismisses this as mere carelessness) When did it become acceptable to so brazenly make such false accusations against other editors? Why is misbehaviour like this considered civil?
- Earlier today, I posted to a discussion-in-progress, but my comment was caught up in an edit conflict. I didn't immediately catch that because I had to take a phone call and deal with an urgent medical matter involving an elderly relative. (Yes, despite having reached grandfatherly age, I also continue to be a caregiver to the previous generation) After I mentioned that while asking for the simple courtesy of having my timely comments reinstated, one user has made several mocking comments in edit summaries. That's genuinely contemptible behavior. But no one even suggests those comments might be inappropriate.
- I'm very critical of User:SimonTrew's deletion proposals. (Again, it doesn't come close to the comments that have been thrown in my direction by people who don't like some of my own deletion proposals, without even a threat of sanctions) His deletion proposals are pften quite poor. Proposals like Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2016_May_12#Ibsenism make it evident that the nominator isn't even pretending to do an adequate job of checking their arguments. Hw's managed the unlikely feat of supposedly reviewing Neelix redirects and somehow having an accuracy rate that's significantly below random selection. That's not exactly high-grade editing.
- This just an exercise in settling scores. Note that the OP wasn't even civil enough to notify me of their proposal for several hours, until they could be sure of enough of their supporters checked in before I could respond. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 04:52, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Addressing a couple of accusations here:
- When SimonTrew commented in the thread above that he had not been notified, I corrected him, and warned him that making such an accusation without care to confirm its accuracy is often construed as a personal attack. Yes, I did chalk the accusation up to carelessness; I think we can agree that he's been a bit careless lately (see thread above). I warned him more strongly on his talk page.
- I did not post the notice on HW's talk page when I first opened this thread, because it was originally opened as a subthread of a thread in which HW was the original poster, thus I assumed HW was already aware of it; besides, repetitive ANI-notice tagging is also considered disruptive, and my edit should have generated a ping anyway. Another user suggested that this should be a separate thread, so I then moved it, and then
immediatelyone minute later posted the notice on HW's talk page. There were a total of two hours and 30 minutes between originally opening the subthread and moving it here, in which time only Legacypac and SimonTrew had commented.
- Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 11:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Addressing a couple of accusations here:
- Oppose: Based on the evidence here, I think an IBAN would be excessive. The incivility shown is not outlandish, and, while the edit summaries are undoubtedly inappropriate, they appear to reflect strong feelings about the underlying issue rather than malice. Moreover, it looks like the problem between Wolfowitz and SimonTrew is recent and limited to CSD tagging. A block may be warranted, but even that seems a bit much to me. Rebbing 07:21, 13 May 2016 (UTC)~
- I'm not convinced this is really about Simon Trew, but rather Wolfowitz enjoys removing CSD tags on Neelix redirects and insulting the tagger, as I've experienced quit a few times. Legacypac (talk) 15:55, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Legacypac: I don't doubt you, but it might be helpful to post a representative diff or two. Rebbing 16:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd love to post them - having problems isolating reverts to CSDs to find the edit summaries. Any ideas on how to search that in his contribution history? Legacypac (talk) 16:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Legacypac: It's slightly clumsy, but maybe filter by 'Wikipedia', choose 500 per page, then Ctrl+F for 'speedy'? Don't know a technocratic method I'm afraid! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 17:09, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd love to post them - having problems isolating reverts to CSDs to find the edit summaries. Any ideas on how to search that in his contribution history? Legacypac (talk) 16:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Legacypac: I don't doubt you, but it might be helpful to post a representative diff or two. Rebbing 16:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced this is really about Simon Trew, but rather Wolfowitz enjoys removing CSD tags on Neelix redirects and insulting the tagger, as I've experienced quit a few times. Legacypac (talk) 15:55, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Not even close to being actionable. Competence is required and from looking at a few of those nominations, it certainly wasnt demonstrated by the nominator. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support and support block as per WP:NPA. Experienced editors know that being subjected to (self-perceived) personal attacks cannot justify tit-for-tat attacks (as neither can the /quality of work under scrutiny either). Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 07:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- My argument is not that "tit-for-tat" attacks are justified. My point is that the comments complained of by the OP are far less "uncivil" than comments that have been routinely tolerated for years. It should also be evident that virtually all of the comments complained of criticize the quality of the edits involved, not the editor, in keeping with what have been broadly accepted guidelines. Bad editing is bad editing, and calling it that is a necessity. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 14:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Such comments should not have been tolerated, and it is not an excuse to tolerate them now. Had I come across the other comments you refer to, I assure you I would have opened more ANI threads.
- Criticizing the quality of these edits is valid and warranted, and I have been criticizing them myself, but calling them "wretchedly stupid" is a pretty long stretch beyond constructive review.
- Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:24, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support interaction ban and encourage nominator to raise the stakes to a block of at least a month. Frankly, I'm surprised a permanent ban hasn't been proposed. This user has been blocked three times before and been brought to AN/I quite a few times; it's time for a long block that lets him know this community is serious about its standards of behavior. Whatever good work this editor might do is completely counteracted by this despicable vitriol, and this editor has shown no capacity to learn. —swpbT 12:44, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that an iBan is the proper solution here, also because HW spreads the love among other editors as well. HW's edit summaries were certainly insulting, and no doubt intended to be so, but "you're incompetent" isn't the same kind of insult as ... well, you come up with a good insult. HW's attitude, generally speaking, is the problem here, combined with this victim mentality--"treated like dirt by admins since 2006" or whatever. His defense, in this thread, is lousy and serves only to deflect; it's not even close to addressing what's going on. That he may have been insulted by someone in 2014 is irrelevant; the argument doesn't seem to be about standards but about "well they were mean to me".
To stick to this particular case, though, I've also had my questions about Simon Trew's (linguistic) competence in one or two redirect discussions, so I can understand, to some extent, the frustration. I got nothing against HW, though he seems to dislike me strongly; he's a net positive still, at least in article space, but with every insulting remark that balance shifts a little. I don't know if we still do "civility parole", but I think that a serious block the next time he makes one of those comments is fair. I nominate HighinBC to be on patrol. Drmies (talk) 14:47, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know about parole, or patrol, I think that enforcement of NPA is plenty. I am not going to dig through their edits every morning, but if I see further reports here or on their talk page I will look into it and respond if needed, as I would hope any admin who is not too busy would do. HighInBC 14:59, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support a block and interaction ban for a while. If a new editor had left edit summaries like this, we'd likely block them out of hand; civility breeds discussion, which allow articles and the encyclopedia project as a whole to progress. That HW categorizes himself as having been "treated like dirt by admins since 2006" suggests that an earlier perceived unfairness or incivility has festered since at least that time. It might be impossible to reverse that resentment within HW, but we can limit the 'social pollution' that it engenders within newer members, seeing this sort of behavior go without any sort of sanction - and thinking its okay to treat other editors like this. The fact that HW has been here for years makes it even more imperative that some sort of sanction be administered. That HW is also dealing with the care of an elderly family member might be seen as a contributing cause to his bad behavior recently, but cannot be seen as a mitigating factor in how we address that behavior.
I have no dog in this fight; I haven't interacted with most of the people in this discussion to any extent. I myself have been difficult to work with, due to my interaction with others in discussions. Because of that, I can unequivocally state with confidence that precisely none of the discussions went smoothly after I vented my spleen. Treating others like crap doesn't work. Ever. For the good of the encyclopedia, we have to address this in measures that can be seen by other editors. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 15:19, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose Ha Ha, your joking right?...but then again maybe the lunatics have taken over the asylum...so Support Bosley John Bosley (talk)
- It sort of seems like you are the one not taking this seriously. As it stands I can't draw anything meaningful from your comment. HighInBC 15:27, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @HighInBC: I think it was related to this comment.FortunaImperatrix Mundi 15:32, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- That in turn is I think related to this RfD. As I've pointed out numerous times, Twinkle does not allow suppression of that warning message, even though posting it often plainly violates WP:DTTR. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:38, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Above was a request for diffs. I'm still looking for the ones I was thinking of, but here are some recent edit summaries I found:
- "your repeated dishonesty is far more uncivil, and I don't have to tolerate it here"" [145]
- "phony and dishonest deletion tagging" [146]
- "inept, abusive, and damaging to the encyclopedia" while removing a CSD tag on Neelix redirect [147]
- "incoherent, invalid, destructive" reverting a CSD of Neelix redirect [148]
- "brain-dead hasty tag-bombing" [149]
Legacypac (talk) 17:17, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like to think I'd never write something like "rv blithering idiocy" in an edit summary—I tend to limit myself to a bland "refuse speedy deletion" instead of just "decline", or use admin rollback, in similar cases—but I think it fairly often. I sure would have for some of the taggings linked in the original thread.HW is abrasive, yes, and sometimes extremely so, but he's also just about always right, and that goes a long way in my book. That right there is why we should treat him differently than the hypothetical new user Jack Sebastian brings up: Hullaballoo has already proved his worth as a volunteer here, while most new users never will. There's no need to talk about ibans and certainly not about blocks if he's willing to take this thread as a warning to moderate his wording. (And there's no need to close this as a patronizing "Hullabaloo is formally warned" or whatever. Show me someone who doesn't think a mobbing at ANI isn't, in itself, an extremely severe warning, and I'll show you someone who's never been subject to one.) —Cryptic 23:00, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose, from what I've seen of Simon Trew's "rationales" blithering idiocy is an incredibly kind and gentle way of describing his behaviour. DuncanHill (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: And yet, still a personal attack. If you can't post a civil response, its time to push back from the keyboard and get some WP:TEA. Like I said, it doesn't matter if HW has been here a while. It doesn't matter if they are usually a good editor. A less-experienced editor would find themselves facing a gauntlet of trout-slapping. The rules have to apply to everyone equally, or they end up meaning precisely jack shit. That means you don't get latitude if you are rude and don't resolve inter-editor problems the right way. If anything, HW's fuller experience means they know full well how they should be acting, and in this case the user just doesn't appear to show anything approaching remorse. We indef block people for less. I am not suggesting such; I am urging us to remember that by avoiding treating HW like any other user, we are living up to that whole cabal stupidity that every Wikipedia critic points to. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 04:26, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support for banned from interacting with SimonTrew and me and also Support for blocking for editing. Wikipedia:No personal attacks is clear and in case of Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, this is recidivism. Recently, I was also a victim of his attacks (for example, "reply to troll", "You're a dishonest troll"), other users also (for example, "still crazy after all these years", "trolling porn publicist". Official request for not personal attacking has been reverted by Hullaballoo_Wolfowitz [150] with edit summary "go away". This is recidivism, multiple repeated personal attacks on different users, no improvement in behavior, we should consider - block the account for some time. Subtropical-man talk
(en-2) 16:58, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- comment leaning on support because even if they are stupid, calling them stupid does not help at all (I know, I have called a few stupid people stupid, and have been called too, how knows if rightfully at that time... It never helped no one). If you can nor argue better than that, you do not belong in a ENCYCLOPAEDIA. Most of all I note that the main fault here is not of either of the two, but a community fault that lets a single editor (Neelix) long lasting misbehaviour cause such a long long clean-up process. (I gave up looking at redirects for discussion) - Nabla (talk) 17:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sorry to put this after the discussion has closed but I feel I have a right to reply. Thank you for all of your support. Now we can make the encylopaedia better. I was interested to learn that I am not the only one because it did feel like WP:HOUNDING. I am never always gonna make the right call on whether a "Neelix Redirect" is the right or wrong thing, I have to make a judgment call and send it to CSD or RfD. Many are kept, many are swiftly retargeting. Without all this Hullabaloo we could have done it a lot quicker. I am not always going to get it right I don't even think I am going to get it right that is why I list em. Now this nonsense is out of the way we can get on as a collaborative project to make the encylopaedia better. Si Trew (talk) 13:01, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Multiple NPA violations at WP:VPT
WITHDRAWN | |
Per WP:SNOW. I naively overestimated en-wiki's ability to raise its level of discourse, a lesson difficult to learn for many. Nuff time wasted. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:12, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)
- 11 May. User Fram started a thread with the section heading: A polite version of "Fooled you again suckers, haha" from Jdforrester (WMF) to enwiki.[151]
- 13 May. User Qgil-WMF objected to the inclusion of the username Jdforrester in the heading, per the Wikipedia policy Wikipedia:No personal attacks.[152]
- 13 May. I saw the objection, agreed with Qgil-WMF's assessment, and removed the username from the heading.[153] I failed to link to WP:TPO, which clearly supports this removal. I am otherwise uninvolved in this thread, and I am not interested in the issues being discussed there.
- 13 May. User Fram saw the removal and reverted it.[154] In my view, this constituted the first shot of an edit war, in violation of the Wikipedia policy Wikipedia:Edit warring, but that's neither here nor there. To avoid a continuance of the edit war:
- 13 May. I started a thread on the talk page to discuss the issue.[155]
- 13 May. On the project page, Fram responded to Qgil-WMF's comments with non-policy-based arguments. His edit summary was a curt and dismissive "No thanks", and the comments included further personal attack against Jdforrester: Jdforrester can start with retracting his lies and apologizing for them.[156]
- 13 May. On the talk page, some back-and-forth ensued between me and Fram. I elaborated a bit on the NPA basis, and Fram countered with non-policy arguments.
- 15 May. Forty-four hours after I started the thread on the talk page, there have been no comments, on either page, from anyone besides me, Qgil-WMF, and Fram. Apparently the readers of that page do not consider an NPA claim important enough to discuss.
Especially after the second PA, I believe a short block for Fram would be preventative. Clearly, he does not understand NPA, or doesn't care about it. ―Mandruss ☎ 10:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- No response 44 hours after a thread started on a page with 3000 watchers should actually be really strong clue there's not a NPA requiring any action. NE Ent 11:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Disagree. There are other possible reasons for no response. When an NPA claim is lodged it should be addressed affirmatively, and your comment does not do that. In any case, to oppose an NPA claim by ignoring it is a vote, not a !vote. You might as well claim that an RfC should fail because the page's 200 watchers outnumbered the 20 Supports 10-to-1. ―Mandruss☎ 11:31, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Based on the thread the title seems a fair, if snarky, summary of the issue. It is criticizing the actions of a particular individual and, again based on the contents of the thread, it looks like that named individual is going against several RfCs, consensus of several discussions and their own statements so while snarky it looks to be a fair characterization of how that person's behavior could be characterized. JbhTalk 12:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- You failed to address Qgil-WMF's comments. And if accusing someone of lying is not a personal attack, I don't know what is. Have you read WP:NPA lately? ―Mandruss☎ 12:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Reading further on in that thread it looks like this is moot because the thread seems to have reached a resolution and arguing NPA/not-NPA here at this point would be needless drama as the complaint is essentially stale.
As a general statement though I do not believe that calling someone out when their behavior is not congruant with their past statements and/or reality is a personal attack - not when there is evidence of such. I prefer to avoid "lie" myself but meh... Otherwise we end up with a community where no one can be held to their own past statements/promises or even to a common objective reality. If you want to discuss this principle in general, I would welcome you at my talk page. JbhTalk 12:52, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)@Mandruss: I haven't read the thread at the Village Pump so I don't know what evidence there is in this case, but I seriously suggest you revisit WP:NPA, because accusing someone of lying, being a sockmaster/sock etc is a personal attack only if the editor making the accusation doesn't present evidence for it, or there's no evidence for it in the thread etc where the accusation is made, see WP:NPA:
"Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence."
(my emphasis). Thomas.W talk 13:00, 15 May 2016 (UTC)- Just addressed that point at Jbhunley's talk page. No idea why he suggested to split the discussion, but it's now split. ―Mandruss☎ 13:07, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I suggested the split to avoid general statements about untruth/deception/lying being seen as statements about the particular editors in this case. Aslo, while I seriously doubt based on the age and inactivity of this complaint, that any admin action will be taken I did not want to clog up this thread or ANI with general musings. JbhTalk 13:33, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- At the very least, the PA should be removed. And I strongly disagree with the interpretations of NPA presented here so far, I hope and believe that I'm far from the only editor who would, and at some point NPA needs clarification, at least as to whether an accusation of lying is ever warranted, regardless of any "evidence", absent the ability to read other editors' minds. For those who value their integrity, the accusation goes not only to their behavior but to their character and, as such, has no place at Wikipedia. Should I open an RfC at WP:VPP? ―Mandruss ☎ 13:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I suggested the split to avoid general statements about untruth/deception/lying being seen as statements about the particular editors in this case. Aslo, while I seriously doubt based on the age and inactivity of this complaint, that any admin action will be taken I did not want to clog up this thread or ANI with general musings. JbhTalk 13:33, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Just addressed that point at Jbhunley's talk page. No idea why he suggested to split the discussion, but it's now split. ―Mandruss☎ 13:07, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Reading further on in that thread it looks like this is moot because the thread seems to have reached a resolution and arguing NPA/not-NPA here at this point would be needless drama as the complaint is essentially stale.
- You failed to address Qgil-WMF's comments. And if accusing someone of lying is not a personal attack, I don't know what is. Have you read WP:NPA lately? ―Mandruss☎ 12:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Based on the thread the title seems a fair, if snarky, summary of the issue. It is criticizing the actions of a particular individual and, again based on the contents of the thread, it looks like that named individual is going against several RfCs, consensus of several discussions and their own statements so while snarky it looks to be a fair characterization of how that person's behavior could be characterized. JbhTalk 12:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Disagree. There are other possible reasons for no response. When an NPA claim is lodged it should be addressed affirmatively, and your comment does not do that. In any case, to oppose an NPA claim by ignoring it is a vote, not a !vote. You might as well claim that an RfC should fail because the page's 200 watchers outnumbered the 20 Supports 10-to-1. ―Mandruss☎ 11:31, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- No response 44 hours after a thread started on a page with 3000 watchers should actually be really strong clue there's not a NPA requiring any action. NE Ent 11:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I disagree with Mandruss's rather odd interpretation of No Personal Attacks. WP:NPA prohibits things such as Racial, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, national, sexual, or other epithets. WP:NPA explicitly allows critical discussion of behavior, so long as they are not baseless. Saying someone "lied" is clearly discussion of behavior. It is clearly not an unfounded accusation when there is either evidence that someone willfully made an untrue statement, or when there is evidence they willfully broke their word.
- If someone turns all the text on Main Page to pink, says it was an accident, and says they'll fix it, fine it was an accident and they will fix it. If they later come back and say they have no intention of fixing it because their original intent had always been to turn the main page text pink, then it is reasonable to say "they lied". That is what happened here. JDForrester gave repeated assurances that he would not use the Single-Edit-Tab deployment to try to sneak out Visual Editor as default for all new users. Visual Editor was then deployed as default for all new users. He was non-responsive to pings, to repeated posts on his talk page, on Phabricator, to posting of the problem on the project tracking page, or anywhere else. I had to take this issue to the WMF Executive Director. THAT finally got a response that this was a bug, and that JDForrester had somehow missed every single notification (and an implication that he had failed to see it on ANY of the pages critical to his job-responsibilities). Fine.... a big heaping of AGF.... it was a bug and he repeatedly botched the notifications he got and he failed his job duties to follow phabricator and mission-critical pages on a new software deployment, when he knows that any new software deployment may required immediate attention to fix potentially site-breaking bugs. He gave assurances that he would get this taken care of. He then later came back and told us he didn't feel like fixing it, because his intention from the beginning had always been to impose Visual Editor as the default editor for all new users. The truckload of AGF exploded at that point. Even with all possible AGF, JDForrester gave assurances that this would be fixed then willfully went back on that word. You can debate how you'd prefer to describe that, but that is clearly "behavior" and diffs can be cited as evidence that he gave those assurances and that he willfully went back on his word. It is reasonable and acceptable to say "he lied". He only finally relented on the issue after someone in the community wrote a patch for the site-wide javascript to fix it, and because there was a clearly growing consensus that community would apply the software patch to fix it ourselves. I am also hoping part of the reason is that the current Executive Director seems to genuinely desire better partnership with the community, and she presumably also expected this to be fixed after she linked me to JDForrester's response saying this was a bug that would be fixed. Alsee (talk) 08:37, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Obstructive editing
(non-admin closure) This is a content dispute, not a behavioral one. Please take steps at WP:Dispute resolution to resolve it. BMK (talk) 01:58, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Two editors, Bede735 and Collect, are preventing inclusion on the Gary Cooper article of any mention of actor Anderson Lawler. Lawler was Cooper's closest friend as a young actor: he lived with him for a time, and Lawler introduced Cooper to Hollywood society. For such reasons, Lawler features in authoritative Cooper biographies. The continual obstruction by the two editors is presumably because Lawler was homosexual. Their obstruction has been (a) endlessly talked out on the Talk page with clearly spurious reasons given for the obstruction (b) subject to an Rfc, but the subject is so low interest it failed and (c) a Request for Mediation, which failed because the two editors refused to participate, alleging there had been prior Consensus - but the consensus is only their own. The situation has gone beyond the bounds of reasonableness, given the Lawler/Cooper association is well-cited historical fact worthy of inclusion in the article.
The cautiously phrased sentences that are desired to be included are: "In 1929 Cooper met the aspiring Paramount actor Anderson Lawler, with whom he lived with for a year. Popular and unabashedly homosexual, Lawler introduced Cooper to Hollywood society, but their close friendship caused intense jealousy with Clara Bow and Lupe Velez. According to actor William Janney, Cooper, Lawler and Velez at least once had a threesome."
Citations would be:
- Mann, William J. Behind the screen: how gays and lesbians shaped Hollywood, 1910-1969, Viking, 2001, pp105
- Swindell, Larry The Last Hero: A Biography of Gary Cooper, New York: Doubleday, 1980, pp104-5
- Fleming, E. J. The Fixers: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine; McFarland & Company, Jefferson, North Carolina & London 2005, p92
- Vogel, Michelle Lupe Velez: The Life And Career of Hollywood's Mexican Spitfire, (McFarland & Company 1972) p71
- Ankerich, Michael G. The Sound of Silence: Conversations with 16 Film and Stage Personalities Who Bridged the Gap Between Silents and Talkies, McFarland and Company, 1998, pp127-128
The following citations can be easily reviewed:
- The Fixers: Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickling and the MGM Publicity Machine (Word search for 'Lawler' in the book preview) :http://www.amazon.com/Fixers-Mannix-Strickling-Publicity-Machine/dp/0786420278/
- The William J. Mann reference can also be read on Amazon by doing a word search for Lawler in the book preview, and selecting the p105 one: http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Screen-Lesbians-Hollywood-1910-1969/dp/0670030171/
- The William Janney's account of the threesome of Cooper,Lawler & Velez (which clarifies the closeness of the friendship) can be read on Google Books here: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=N4WhCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA128&dq=%22anderson+lawler
Suggestions? Engleham (talk) 22:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- There is an RfC from just last December in the archive of the article talk page on this exact subject. You have made no attempt to discuss this content issue at all. If you had, I am sure one of the names editors would have pointed you to it. Essentially this question has been asked and answered. Recently. My suggestion to you would be drop it like it's a hot potato. You are editing against consensus, DRN rejected the request for mediation due to no discussion on the talk page and there are no beehavioral issues here. Except yours. John from Idegon (talk) 22:59, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not only RfC re Gary Cooper, but about other articles. See also [157] etc. I fear I find the editor might be considered "litigious" were this a legal issue. [158], [159], [160] Pinging Magog the Ogre as possibly having additional input here. Collect (talk) 23:41, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- John from Idegon You don't appear to have read what I wrote. I acknowledged there was an RfC, but it failed. Why? Because it only attracted the two said editors! Plus one other person who wrote that the claims "need particularly solid referencing." If you review the citations provided they are all rocksolid.
As for Collect's comment, it was merely par for the course. Diversionary, rather than intellectually addressing the actual information. And why does he ping a certain Magog the Ogre, you might ask? It so happens the said person has previously been a mentor to George Ho. And who is George Ho? An editor Collect has previously supported in passive aggressive obstructive behaviour. So Collect is clearly hope hope hoping that Magog will side with him on this issue due to the fact I have previously challenged Ho on his actions. Yeah, schoolyard pathetic. Once again, diversionary puerile tactics, rather than honest adult analysis of the requested inclusion and its citations. And that's all I ask. Which any Wikipedia editor is entitled to expect. Engleham (talk) 01:05, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Seriously? Yes the RfC failed....it failed to support your position. It is a valid RfC with a valid close. This is a content dispute and does not belong here. Continuing here is only going to get you burned. We have RfCs to end disputes. This one is ended. With that I shall leave you all to argue in peace about Hollywood. John from Idegon (talk) 01:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think the proposed final sentence "According to actor William Janney, Cooper, Lawler and Velez at least once had a threesome." is supported by the source.
- The source reads:
- There are two beds in the room. I slept in one, and Andy, Gary and Lupe in the other. All during the night, all I heard was giggling and all sorts of carrying on.
- I asked Andy the next morning what was going on over there. He said they were having a threesome a menage a trois. They were a wild bunch.
- One possible interpretation is that they actually had a threesome. There is another possible interpretation, keeping in mind that the person telling the story was in the same room as the other three and did not conclude that they had a threesome but asked and were told that they had a threesome, the other possible interpretation is that the reference to a threesome was a joke.
- While we may not be able to conclude which interpretation (and there may be others) is correct, I don't think the interpretation implied by the final sentence is certain enough to use.--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:30, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you User:Sphilbrick. I'm happy to change "had a threesome" to "shared a bed".
- John from Idegon (talk In no way was it a valid RfC, in the spirit of the RfC policy, when the two individuals objecting to any inclusion, on ANY terms, were the only ones to comment - apart from another who clearly hadn't checked the citations. The only way forward I can see at the moment is to open another RfC, and ensure it remains open until it has opinions from at least 8 to 10 other editors, in addition to the two the dispute is with. Engleham (talk) 01:40, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Threat/warning by User:Revenge Of The Ghost 100
Indef-blocked by Widr for abusing multiple accounts. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames let's talk about it 09:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
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I have received the following "warning" from User:Revenge Of The Ghost 100
- "You think you are clever to fight Malaysian pay-TV service? You are really stupid!! This is your warning!! Don't fight againist normal Wikipedia users!!" diff
This user is a blatant sockpuppet of blocked User:Revenge Of The Ghost and User:Revenge Of The Ghost 002 and has been listed at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Low Li Hao 1997 since 11 May, but, so far, no action has been taken. They are the latest in a long line of accounts (see SPI above for some of them), possibly just one person, used to promote Malaysian pay-TV services.
Could action please be taken against User:Revenge Of The Ghost 100 for sockpuppetry and threatening behavior
We have articles on about 195 Malaysian pay-TV channels. I assume a request for semi-protection of them all would be rejected, but with repeated, blatant, sockpuppetry and promotion, other than a rapid response, or a lower threshold for semi-protection, I cannot see how this promotion can be prevented - Arjayay (talk) 09:19, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
[Offensive Title Redacted]
VOA blocked by Ymblanter. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Is this enough to block an editor on their first edit? Debresser (talk) 12:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Legal threat at Davide Anselmi ( Composer )
NAC user blocked by Malcolmx15 Sir Joseph (talk) 18:54, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
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A new editor (JoannaAlberty (talk · contribs)) has recreated this BLP page, which has been deleted under at least 2 different names, including via an AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anselmi Davide (Drummer). The most recent version includes several hidden notes:
* DEAR ADMIN/USER : Please do NOT delete Davide Anselmi's page, he is an important piece of the international music that makes charitable with his albums and classic works in mixed rock..è was honored four times by the BBC, and we'll keep this article remain online for his fans and for all the people who support it, deleting it would be a lack of respect.
* ATTENTION: Please do NOT delete Davide Anselmi's page, because had just been approved, and it is from this morning that we try to get it approved, close to me have the lawyer of David, an engineer of telecommunications and computer network programming applied, we are trying to succeed but not triamo feedback, kindly verify the page. We remind you that we are not playing to those who clear the first page, there is half the law with clear and focused guidelines to those who erase the page.
* ATTENTION: Tedjensen is the sound engineer of Davide and we are all here specifically to approve the page
* ATTENTION: To approve the page are presents: Chris Mustyin ( Lawyer ), Jack lemoore ( Telecommunication Engineer ) , Ted Jensen ( Sound Engineer ), Sarah lonel ( Second Lawyer ), Chistina Malmsay ( Staff Lawyer general manager ).
* NOTE: If you are an user attempting to modify this Copyrightes page, do not edit this page. This page is under Copyright ( Reserved ) for Important person. To edit this page without incurring with the law contact the administration of David Anselmi
(Note bolding added) I have advised the editor of the error of their beliefs. 220 of Borg 13:11, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have blocked JoannaAlberty (talk · contribs) as a sockpuppet and will shortly list the account at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Anselmidavide9981. The article page has been deleted and salted. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 13:35, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
COI editor, User:TheoTPV, mass adding links to "his" book
(non-admin closure) User Blocked by Dennis Brown for spam. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:24, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
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TheoTPV (talk · contribs) is mass adding links to his book, please see contributions. Also, is it possible to mass rollback his additions? cc: @Materialscientist:. Baking Soda (talk) 13:55, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Blocked for spam, I cleaned up the latest, someone else had cleaned up the earliest. If he comes back, report here again and point to this discussion, might have to blacklist that URL. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:10, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Strange accusations
NAC, blocked. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:53, 16 May 2016 (UTC) |
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I've opened a discussion on Scrubs(TV show article) and done some editing on the article itself, until a disruptive user started accusing me that I'm a sock.
This is a shared IP address. 89.164.108.211 (talk) 18:42, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Asdisis. - DVdm (talk) 18:46, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Already blocked. Waiting for next IP to appear. - DVdm (talk) 18:51, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Legal threat by IP
User blocked in Danish. Drmies (talk) 02:47, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
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See edit summary with this edit. It was made in response to me after I restored warning template comments onto the user's talk page. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- And, despite the IPs... requests, an ANI notice was left on the IPs talk page (diff). ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:44, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Harassment from Czar
Consensus is, no harrassment occurred, and the reporter has asked this to be closed. Sergecross73 msg me 12:59, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Czar has been WP:WikiBullying and harassing me despite my attempts to follow Wikipedia policy. They have been accusing me of various things (some untrue) despite none of them being breaches on my behalf. This has been continuing on User_talk:Angeles despite my requests for them to stop. While I haven't helped the situation with my responses (and admittedly I made a few accusations myself), this user is persistently hounding, following me around Wikipedia and the rest of the internet in a crusade to exclude me and my community from the conversations regarding Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Red_Eclipse. While I did appeal to my community for help understanding and fixing this matter, I have been perfectly clear that this must be done in an unbiased manner and any COI must be revealed. Angeles (talk) 05:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see it as harassment. Seems to be this user is using the word "harassment" to win at arguments. I know Czar can't harass anyone, especially that he recently became an admin at Commons. If we knew already that Czar is harassing, then I should have spoken about it at his RFA at Commons. Pokéfan95 (talk) 05:54, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
I don't see harassment either, all I see is @Czar: advising you of the COI policy. It seems you are in a hurry to throw WP:AGF right out the window. You also appear to have some WP:COI Issues with that deletion discussion, and the WP:Canvassing is concerning. As far as I can tell, Czar's actions are inline with wikipedia policy, guidelines and common sense. He has acted appropriately as far as I can tell. Perhaps you should read WP:Boomerang. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 06:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- There is no harassment to be had. Concerning a single- that's right, one- article, Czar identified that you are at the head of Red Eclipse's development, therefore it would have been prudent of you to avoid a conflict of interest. Simply having your name on your own page doesn't cut it, as it's not our responsibility to examine every person who gives input. Since you are the lead developer, your opinion on the subject matter is inherently partial, it can't be taken with the same weight as an outsider's. And about your community? You canvassed, asking people to vote to keep, which is actually a bigger issue. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 07:07, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like to see proof that I canvassed asking for votes to keep, or violated any other Wikipedia policy. From the start my aim has to been to find people more familiar with Wikipedia policy and anyone/anywhere that might have information regarding reputable sources. I'm perfectly within my rights to try to source this information in order to help improve the quality of the article, even with the Conflict of Interest that I keep being accused of (which wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't already identified myself on Wikipedia as per WP:DISCLOSE). The wording of my forum post is very explicit, so this is just another twisting of my words to gain a false accusation. It is generally accepted that those involved with a subject are more familiar with it, and while I agree their votes are biased, I have been making every attempt to make sure that is known (and never encouraged them to actually vote). I'd say some of the people responding here are biased as well, considering they know this user personally/professionally. Just because the user is quoting their own bits of policy doesn't mean they're not engaging in Bullying and Hounding, they are deliberate attempts to exclude myself and members of the Red Eclipse community from the discussion. Angeles (talk) 08:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Where is the WP:Bullying or WP:Hounding? if you are going to label something bullying or hounding you NEED diffs to support it. SO far what you have shown here is nothing but @Czar: pointing out policy to you. Hounding would be on the same terms as stalking, you've pointed out one talk page post and one article for deletion which are related. He isn't following you around wikipedia from what I can see (unless you provide diffs that show otherwise), and Wiki-bullying Not even close. He has been exceptionally polite in doing so as well. I've seen nothing that indicates any maliciousness on his part. I'm also starting to see some WP:OWN issues now too. Perhaps you should read WP:AOHA because right now this appears to be a WP:PA on Czar. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 08:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd like to see proof that I canvassed asking for votes to keep, or violated any other Wikipedia policy. From the start my aim has to been to find people more familiar with Wikipedia policy and anyone/anywhere that might have information regarding reputable sources. I'm perfectly within my rights to try to source this information in order to help improve the quality of the article, even with the Conflict of Interest that I keep being accused of (which wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't already identified myself on Wikipedia as per WP:DISCLOSE). The wording of my forum post is very explicit, so this is just another twisting of my words to gain a false accusation. It is generally accepted that those involved with a subject are more familiar with it, and while I agree their votes are biased, I have been making every attempt to make sure that is known (and never encouraged them to actually vote). I'd say some of the people responding here are biased as well, considering they know this user personally/professionally. Just because the user is quoting their own bits of policy doesn't mean they're not engaging in Bullying and Hounding, they are deliberate attempts to exclude myself and members of the Red Eclipse community from the discussion. Angeles (talk) 08:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
After being given better neutral advice regarding policy, I withdraw my complaint as I didn't fully understand what constituted harassment. I did ask this user to leave me alone, but the responsibility is on me to turn the other cheek. Please feel free to archive this thread immediately. Angeles (talk) 12:55, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
WP:WEIGHT
User:Letsbefiends and two IPs blocked. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:42, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
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So an admin has now decided to weigh in on Salim Mehajer. Well, the more eyes the merrier I guess. Except that he has not bothered reading anything in the talk page and has solely decided that there is "too much text" (including the references I've included, which must take up a quarter of the content). So it looks like I'm about to beer blocked, over too many reliable references! Thus must be a first.
Anyway, this is a last ditch attempt at asking for a sane decision. How is it that I can be accused of being obsessive when all I've done is document what has been extensively written about in the media? I mean, is the one paragraph I wrote about Mehajer almost killing two women not significant? Or what about him almost going to jail for driving an unregistered car without a license? Or his many speeding fines and other offenses he racked up whilst he was s deputy mayor?
I've asked all these things on the talk page, but yo no avail. I've had the same editor who had deleted that material I am absolutely forbidden from using primary sources - even to confirm company ownership! They gave accused me of not checking sources, of not documenting things, of doing original research - and yet they have contradicted themselves each time.
So look, if you must block me, go ahead. But could you at least let me hash this out on the talk page? So far my questions haven't been answered in at way. Genuine questions which haven't been answered. Material that was entirely I contentious was removed by this editor, and yet I'm told that two editors - one of whom has been trying to get the article deleted for some time now, seems to be able to hold it hostage? I mean, I've researched the heck out of this I good faith and I'm about to get "disciplined"? How does this happen? - 203.217.39.91 (talk) 09:39, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- By repeatedly and blatantly violating the core policies WP:BLP and WP:NPOV. I don't think that Wikipedia is the place for you as you are plainly editing with an axe to grind against this person. Nick-D (talk) 10:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- 203.217.39.91/Letsbefiends, I know you hate me, but I will add my 2c. If you had stuck to serious matters, like the pedestrian collision, that might have got through. But watering down the section with trivial stuff like illegal U-turns made the section untenable. Likewise, adding all the minutiae of company details and ABN numbers moved that section into the realms of trivia and an irrelevant directory. If you look at the articles of similar players, like Alan Bond and Rene Rivkin, you will not find such detail. It was not a good judgement call, and here you are. WWGB (talk) 10:28, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've blocked the registered account here, User:Letsbefiends for an indefinite period, and blocked the two IP accounts for time-limited periods. My rationale for the indefinite duration block is on Letsbefiends' talk page. Nick-D (talk) 10:32, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Concerns about copyright and referencing
(non-admin closure) OP has been blocked by Drmies for harrassment. BMK (talk) 18:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
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The contributions of User:Rberchie is troubling and concerning. The user is not only a serial copyright violator but have also added numerous fake references to Wikipedia articles. Like user:Wikicology, they created hundreds of articles that are either unsourced or fortified with fake references. see my comment on their talk page. I followed Wikicology case from the now archived messy ANI thread to the Arbitration request. (Redacted) I discovered that User:Rberchie is part of Wiki Loves Women as a Wikipedian in residence. Having editors like Rberchie to serve as Wikipedian in residence will be counter-productive. Peter Damian and User:Mendaliv may be interested in this discussion. Idiot Guruman (talk) 11:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- That was your ninth post??? Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 11:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mind you, it seems to be a fair question. Most of the images (except that one of him in
Wikicology'shis office, and that other) seem OK; but he is totally gilding his sources. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 11:52, 17 May 2016 (UTC)- (Non-administrator comment) It may be a fair question, but it also seems fair that Rberchie gets a chance of actually answering the questions posed. He has last been active on the 16th and the questions were all posted today (the 17th), some four to five hours ago. There's more than a small chance that Rberchie simply isn't aware of any of these questions, let alone this ANI-thread. At least one of the alleged copyright infringements on commons wasn't even uploaded by that user. All in all, way too soon and way too sloppy for WP:ANI. Kleuske (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not bad for a ninth post though. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:09, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) It may be a fair question, but it also seems fair that Rberchie gets a chance of actually answering the questions posed. He has last been active on the 16th and the questions were all posted today (the 17th), some four to five hours ago. There's more than a small chance that Rberchie simply isn't aware of any of these questions, let alone this ANI-thread. At least one of the alleged copyright infringements on commons wasn't even uploaded by that user. All in all, way too soon and way too sloppy for WP:ANI. Kleuske (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Suggest a thread title change. "Second Wikicology" is just going to get you blocked for harassing Wikicology, and probably get this thread prematurely closed as started for divisive reasons. My suggestion is that if there are copyvio images, tag them for speedy as such (or nominate for WP:PUF or a Commons DR if it's not blatant). Make a note of those images. As to the hundreds of bad articles, it might be worth taking a look. Still I agree with Kleuske that giving Rberchie a chance to respond before coming to ANI would have been a good idea. But now that we're here, well... —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 12:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I changed the thread title to the actual issues at hand. Also, Idiot Guruman, I'm offended by your smear of "hundreds of editors like Wikicology from Global South" which maligns many editors without any evidence and also verges on colonial racism. I suggest you strike that accusation. It is especially galling to see such sweeping insults from an editor with 12 edits! Did you create this account just to make this complaint? Liz 13:29, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I came to this via UAA. I have no opinion on the underlying issue, but this editor who appears out of nowhere to harass a user, that's not OK and I blocked them indefinitely. DoRD, you know about this already; Mike V, you looked into one of the IPs before. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Personal Attacks by Tquirk91
Blocked by Huon as WP:NOTHERE. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames let's talk about it 22:09, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
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See This Diff on my talk page. Violation of WP:NPA, Best I can tell its because I reverted some vandalism he/she did at Lime (fruit). Kind of entertaining but I have a feeling the editor is wp:nothere --Cameron11598 (Talk) 21:22, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Blocked. Huon (talk) 21:34, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- don't think technically a personal attack as this whole thing, which I'm quite sure is not original, is for comedic effect...definitely silly, inappropriate behavior though..68.48.241.158 (talk) 21:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Editor's PA using his account while s/he is away at a conference
User in question blocked. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames let's talk about it 23:19, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
See edit summaries: removing section from user talk page, editing article (adding unsourced content), followup copyedit. Do we turn a blind eye to this situation where two people are openly using the same edit name, or should an admin intervene? PamD 21:37, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Whether you wish to call it a shared account or a compromised account, an immediate block is needed until the actual User can make an email appeal that indicates either it was compromised or that he understands the need for unique accounts. John from Idegon (talk) 21:52, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
User 2-2Hello2/Kiddler Fidxler
Blocked as an impersonator by DragonflySixtyseven. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames let's talk about it 23:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Over the past few days I have been doing some recent changes patrol. A new account was created today 2-2Hello2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) with a username remarkably similar to my own (TwoTwoHello). When I pointed this out to them, they responded that "it is just a strange coincidence i guess".
Ah, as I was typing up this report the user name has been changed to Kiddler Fidxler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), which is similar to user Brucie "kiddie fixdler" (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who was vandalising the Bruce Forsyth article, among others, over the past couple of days. Although the new account has made a couple of vaguely constructive edits, the rest are not and include vandalising my user page [162],[163], removing content [164] and then restoring it with an edit summary calling themself a vandal [165], and a couple of unnecessary copy/paste page moves that need undoing. The user is clearly not here and needs blocking. Thanks. TwoTwoHello (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Tendentious editing by the user Oatitonimly
This editor seems to be determined to replace all mentions of Turkish-Armenian War to "Turkish invasion of Armenia." There is currently a requested move discussion started by them but they are trying to replace all mentions of Turkish American War in various articles with their preferred POV in the meantime.([166], [167],[168],[169] [170][171][172][173]) Worst of all they even tried to alter the posts of other editors on a talk page.
Tiptoethrutheminefield warned them about this but they seem to be continuing with deleting/replacing the mentions of Turkish-Armenian War to their preferred version as shown in above diffs. There is also evidence of canvassing, [174],[175] where they seem to be notifying the editors they think would support their proposed move. I think Oatitonimly is not here to build an encylopedia but rather to push an agenda, and I think this type of revisionism should not be tolerated. Darwinian Ape talk 03:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I didn't replace all, just some where I thought it necessary. There are multiple redirect links for a reason. Not all those edits are adding the alternate name, some I was removing things that simply didn't belong.[176][177] The problem was Esc reverted many edits I made without even looking at them, he even restored vandalism that I reverted.[178]
- He warned me the name were red links so I changed them to make them work. I notified Marshal because he had proposed a previous renaming discussion for the article similar to this, so I wanted to alert him. Oatitonimly (talk) 04:54, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- You thought altering talk page posts of other editors by removing the mention of "Turkish-Armenian war" was necessary? You also deleted it from see also sections of articles, those sections are for related topics which Turkish-Armenian war clearly was. Forgive me, but I find it hard to see your editing pattern anything but a campaign to remove all the references of "Turkish-Armenian war" from Wikipedia. I also recommend you read WP:CANVASS because notifying an editor because they share your goals on a matter is the definition of canvassing.Darwinian Ape talk 06:39, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Oatitonimly keeps changing every article that has Turkish-Armenian War mentioned despite being warned and reported which is in fact is nothing less than vandalism, to add insult to injury they are edit warring to keep their changes and claim vandalism in their edit summaries just look at the contribs of the editor, there is nothing but disruptive editing, which is hard to keep up. Darwinian Ape talk 09:47, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Who are they? if to look on Oatitonimly last edits, he is reverting the same ip 95.208.241.193 which seems to be backed by you like here [179][180] etc. And it is a clear case of content dispute so please assume good faith and don't call it a vandalism. Lkahd (talk) 10:10, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I use they as a gender-neutral pronoun as it's common in wikipedia. Darwinian Ape talk 10:17, 5 May 2016 (UTC) Also, WP:NOTSUICIDE it's very hard to believe the editor doctored the talk page posts of other editors in good faith. Darwinian Ape talk 10:58, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Just glancing over before dinner, anyone reckon WP:ARBAA2 might be applicable? Not that Oatitonimly has been warned about it. Ian.thomson (talk) 10:02, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I wasn't aware the topic was under discretionary sanctions as my involvement started with the proposed move in the Turkish-Armenian War article. But a quick research reveals Oatitonimly was aware of the sanction since they started an AE request based on the same sanction They may not be officially notified but certainly aware of the sanction. Darwinian Ape talk 10:26, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Lkahd is very correct in that you are lacking in good faith. Just like your IP friend, you keep reverting other changes besides the name, for example you deleted a source to something additional I added here.[181] The first time I wanted to rename all uses, and it was my mistake that I hadn't realized I was doing it on old talk discussions, but this time I only wanted to add the alternate name to a couple pages in order to add some balance. And if you won't object, I'll be undo the reverts you did that took away other changes I made but I'll leave the article name as it is, in order to stop this edit warring. Though I hope you'll realize I was just trying to give the invasion redirect a couple more links and let them remain, I left the majority in the war link. Oatitonimly (talk) 15:42, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
The edits are not actually tendentious: the article had previously been called "Turkish invasion of Armenia (1920)" and many sources have been presented in the renaming discussion that use the "Turkish invasion of Armenia" wording. I reverted Oatitonimly's edit in the AG talk archive [182] and advised him [183] that this was not appropriate editing and that it would also probably be best to wait before altering wikilinks related to the article title currently being discussed. Of course altering another editor's words is a big faux pas, but a one-off incident like this can be put down to inexperience. The same could also be said for the altering of the wikilinks. My objection to them was that Oatitonimly was deleting links that worked and replacing them with dead links (because there is no "Turkish invasion of Armenia" article or redirect). This again is probably down to inexperience. Personally, I think Wikilinks that are "see also" type links should have the exact wording of the article title they lead to, but for wording inside article content there is not a need to make an exact duplication, as long as there is no deception. A wikilinked phrase like "the 1920 Turkish invasion of Armenia" that led to the Turkish-Armenian War article could be completely appropriate wording, depending on how the containing passage is worded. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:47, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- NB, I do not think there is any pov as such between "Turkish-Armenian War" and "Turkish invasion of Armenia", however, the latter is more descriptively accurate. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:58, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Had the editor stopped after your warning I wouldn't have reported them. But removing links from see also sections of clearly related articles as "doesn't belong" and edit warring to keep their preferred version in every article that mentions Turkish-Armenian war, despite not achieving a consensus in the talk page of the original article combined with the previous behavior shows a clear pattern of disruptive behavior and a lack of respect for consensus building. It's not the content itself I object to, which is just a content dispute, it's the editor's behavior in unilaterally imposing the content change in all articles in Wikipedia behind our back without any sort of consensus. Darwinian Ape talk 17:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- My warning was specifically about altering other editors' words. I don't see that act being repeated. And was also about not turning working wikilinks into dead ones. That too has not been repeated, I think. The rest was just advice. I don't see what you claim to be "revisionism" in the argument about whether "Turkish-Armenian War" should be "Turkish invasion of Armenia" - both terms are in use, but I prefer the latter because it is more accurate descriptively, and because it follows the title format found on many Wikipedia articles, not the least being 2003 invasion of Iraq. And even if the former is the one that consensus decides on for that specific article title, there can still be good reasons to use the latter wording as links in other articles. I haven't gone through all of Oatitonimly's edits on those other articles to check if he has had those good reasons. But I do find Oatitonimly's edits to be rather pointless (and thus, yes, pointlessly causing disruption) because without any accompanying backing argument they can be (and are) easily reverted. He needs to be encouraged to discuss things on the talk pages, present arguments for each major edit change, and realize that not everything needs to be fixed in a day. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 18:57, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- I outlined my reasoning for the content dispute on the talk page of related article, I wont reiterate here. The edit pattern of the editor looked to me a clear attempt of whitewashing every instances of the use "Turkish-Armenian war" to bolster their move request and I am not convinced that they were trying to improve the articles by replacing it with their preferred version. I'm glad that you also see these edits as causing disruption. Darwinian Ape talk 19:30, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, his editing, especially at the start when he was breaking wikilinks and editing other people's words, has been disruptive, one could even say eagerly disruptive - but I think "whitewashing" is overstating the ambition of the edits: both "Turkish-Armenian War" and "Turkish invasion of Armenia" are used by sources, and one is currently the title, the other a past title and now a redirect. "Tendentious" is also overstating things, and the "not here to build an encyclopedia" assertion you made at the start is just not justified. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:50, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- When almost every edit of the editor was an attempt to replace the mention of "Turkish-Armenian war" with "Turkish invasion of Armenia" Considering the determination, bordering on zealotry, I think whitewashing is not an overstatement.(there are at least twice as many examples of this replacement campaign as I initially reported) There is also the issue of canvassing, edit warring and altering other editor's posts. And while it's possible to see each of these transgressions alone as inexperience, combined it's a clear NOTHERE like behavior. Darwinian Ape talk 15:17, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- What, exactly, do you claim is being "whitewashed"? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- When almost every edit of the editor was an attempt to replace the mention of "Turkish-Armenian war" with "Turkish invasion of Armenia" Considering the determination, bordering on zealotry, I think whitewashing is not an overstatement.(there are at least twice as many examples of this replacement campaign as I initially reported) There is also the issue of canvassing, edit warring and altering other editor's posts. And while it's possible to see each of these transgressions alone as inexperience, combined it's a clear NOTHERE like behavior. Darwinian Ape talk 15:17, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, his editing, especially at the start when he was breaking wikilinks and editing other people's words, has been disruptive, one could even say eagerly disruptive - but I think "whitewashing" is overstating the ambition of the edits: both "Turkish-Armenian War" and "Turkish invasion of Armenia" are used by sources, and one is currently the title, the other a past title and now a redirect. "Tendentious" is also overstating things, and the "not here to build an encyclopedia" assertion you made at the start is just not justified. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:50, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- I outlined my reasoning for the content dispute on the talk page of related article, I wont reiterate here. The edit pattern of the editor looked to me a clear attempt of whitewashing every instances of the use "Turkish-Armenian war" to bolster their move request and I am not convinced that they were trying to improve the articles by replacing it with their preferred version. I'm glad that you also see these edits as causing disruption. Darwinian Ape talk 19:30, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- My warning was specifically about altering other editors' words. I don't see that act being repeated. And was also about not turning working wikilinks into dead ones. That too has not been repeated, I think. The rest was just advice. I don't see what you claim to be "revisionism" in the argument about whether "Turkish-Armenian War" should be "Turkish invasion of Armenia" - both terms are in use, but I prefer the latter because it is more accurate descriptively, and because it follows the title format found on many Wikipedia articles, not the least being 2003 invasion of Iraq. And even if the former is the one that consensus decides on for that specific article title, there can still be good reasons to use the latter wording as links in other articles. I haven't gone through all of Oatitonimly's edits on those other articles to check if he has had those good reasons. But I do find Oatitonimly's edits to be rather pointless (and thus, yes, pointlessly causing disruption) because without any accompanying backing argument they can be (and are) easily reverted. He needs to be encouraged to discuss things on the talk pages, present arguments for each major edit change, and realize that not everything needs to be fixed in a day. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 18:57, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Had the editor stopped after your warning I wouldn't have reported them. But removing links from see also sections of clearly related articles as "doesn't belong" and edit warring to keep their preferred version in every article that mentions Turkish-Armenian war, despite not achieving a consensus in the talk page of the original article combined with the previous behavior shows a clear pattern of disruptive behavior and a lack of respect for consensus building. It's not the content itself I object to, which is just a content dispute, it's the editor's behavior in unilaterally imposing the content change in all articles in Wikipedia behind our back without any sort of consensus. Darwinian Ape talk 17:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Instances of the usage "Turkish-Armenian War" obviously. See their comment in the move discussion in regards to the common name argument right before they started the rampage of replacement: "Less words will always yield more results. You also have to consider how many of these are Wikipedia WP:FORK"
(referring to google search results) I think they believe(erroneously) that by replacing the instances of the usage "Turkish-Armenian war" they will alter the google results or something. But given that the disruption seems to be stopped for now, I am OK if the admins would like to give the editor some rope, hopefully the disruptive behavior will not be repeated, although I'm not optimistic. This is not an area I am particularly interested in so I think it's unlikely we will collaborate in other articles after the move discussion. But I couldn't help but notice there seems to be a general bias in Turkish related subjects.(though limited my experience may be) There are some editors, unfortunately, who seems to be going to some enormous lengths to cast Turks in the worst possible light. I don't doubt there are proTurkish counterparts guilty of similar crimes, but they don't seem to be prevalent. Darwinian Ape talk 22:59, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Some could think you have just revealed a pov agenda. But, I think, to have said so openly what you have just said is only revealing a failing of some Wikipedia articles to properly convey correct information. Those articles should have informed you enough for you to realize how disturbingly wrong (and actually offensive) that "to cast Turks in the worst possible light" opinion is. The Turkish-Armenian War article is not at all well written - I would like to improve it but it is currently protected thanks to Oatitonimly's unproductive edits. Maybe revisit it in a few weeks or months and see if you still stand by your opinion. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:41, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Canvassing at the AE:
- Unfortunately Oatitonimly continues with the disruptive behavior by canvassing at an AE request that they reported. I told them in the AE request that it was not an appropriate behavior. In turn they asked me to delete my comment "out of human decency," accusing me of battleground mentality on my talk page. I told them I would delete, if they acknowledge in their request, that the canvassing behavior was wrong and pledge they won't do it again so that the editors they pinged can see there is foul play in notifications and act accordingly. As of now they did not comply with my request. They also accused me of gaming the system, which is a clear projection since they were the one who tried to justify their canvassing by trying to find loopholes in policy.(see the conversation on my talk) They also accused me of editing "while carefully avoiding the 3RR." which is a clear misrepresentation and an assumption of bad faith. I gave this editor the benefit of the doubt in the hopes that they would see what they are doing is wrong and disruptive, but the problem is they don't seem to understand what they did was unacceptable. They are coming up with excuses that are less and less convincing. Darwinian Ape talk 01:43, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- This [184] does not seem to be actual canvassing, Oatitonimly did not place any messages on these editors' talk pages. The effect would be the same if he had said "it would be useful if they were here" rather than "I invite them". Or is there a way that those editors would have known just by having their names mentioned? However, the post itself seems rather weasely worded (by mentioning them by name Oatitonimly implies that all those editors have had problems with the editor being discusses, but without having to present evidence to prove it). Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- "Oatitonimly did not place any messages on these editors' talk pages." I don't see how that matters. The end result is the same. It's more efficient if you look at it, rather than sending each of them a message, just posting one message and ping all of them at once. Also it seems the editwar at Turkish-Armenian War continues right where they left before the page protection. Darwinian Ape talk 23:32, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- "Canvassing" is not just a word - it is an activity. He posted no invitations on the talk pages of those editors, or on any other pages, and no ping code was used in the post he made naming those editors. So I don't see how that one post can reasonably be called canvassing. 18:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk)
- Here is the quote of the post:
"User:DatGuy User:Ferakp User:EtienneDolet User:KrakatoaKatie User:Amortias User:Mr.User200 User:Jim1138 User:Cahk These users have all been involved with Gala19000's tedious editing and given him various warnings, both shown above. I invite them all to come here and give their thoughts if they wish to"
(emphasis mine)(also editor used brackets to ping) It requires a great amount of mental gymnastics to think they did not intend to ping those editors just because they didn't the use ping code, editors were pinged regardless. Yes, canvassing is an activity that can be accomplished by pinging editors in an AE case. Darwinian Ape talk 03:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)- Where is the ping code? I do not know what you mean by "editor used brackets to ping" and "editors were pinged regardless" - names alone don't ping, brackets alone don't ping, the word "ping" pings! Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 12:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Tiptoethrutheminefield yes it does. Darwinian Ape talk 19:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. I stand corrected. What is the purpose of ping then, if annoying alerts are so easy to make with just a user wikilink? I suppose a question to ask is, if I didn't know that links did this, did Oatitonimly, is it something that would be common knowledge? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think ping tag just puts an "@" sign to the name. It's probably made so it would be user friendly, many new editors may not know the ping tag and try to just wikilink the userpage, as most likely is the case here. I think it would be quite naive to think Oatitonimly didn't know it, given the nature of the message they crafted. Darwinian Ape talk 05:27, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, looking at it again I think you are right. Because "user" has been added in front of each editor's name, the intent was to communicate to them the invitation. It is not something that would be accidentally typed with an ignorance of its effect. I've no opinion on whether it was an inappropriate invitation. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:53, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I think ping tag just puts an "@" sign to the name. It's probably made so it would be user friendly, many new editors may not know the ping tag and try to just wikilink the userpage, as most likely is the case here. I think it would be quite naive to think Oatitonimly didn't know it, given the nature of the message they crafted. Darwinian Ape talk 05:27, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. I stand corrected. What is the purpose of ping then, if annoying alerts are so easy to make with just a user wikilink? I suppose a question to ask is, if I didn't know that links did this, did Oatitonimly, is it something that would be common knowledge? Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Tiptoethrutheminefield yes it does. Darwinian Ape talk 19:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Where is the ping code? I do not know what you mean by "editor used brackets to ping" and "editors were pinged regardless" - names alone don't ping, brackets alone don't ping, the word "ping" pings! Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 12:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Here is the quote of the post:
- "Canvassing" is not just a word - it is an activity. He posted no invitations on the talk pages of those editors, or on any other pages, and no ping code was used in the post he made naming those editors. So I don't see how that one post can reasonably be called canvassing. 18:53, 12 May 2016 (UTC)Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk)
- "Oatitonimly did not place any messages on these editors' talk pages." I don't see how that matters. The end result is the same. It's more efficient if you look at it, rather than sending each of them a message, just posting one message and ping all of them at once. Also it seems the editwar at Turkish-Armenian War continues right where they left before the page protection. Darwinian Ape talk 23:32, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- This [184] does not seem to be actual canvassing, Oatitonimly did not place any messages on these editors' talk pages. The effect would be the same if he had said "it would be useful if they were here" rather than "I invite them". Or is there a way that those editors would have known just by having their names mentioned? However, the post itself seems rather weasely worded (by mentioning them by name Oatitonimly implies that all those editors have had problems with the editor being discusses, but without having to present evidence to prove it). Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Kendrick7 editing archive of closed RfC
(Ping User:I JethroBT...)
User:Kendrick7 After unsuccessfully attempting to undo the result of an RfC[185][186] decided to edit the archive to remove the decision by the closing administrator.[187][188][189][190] He also re-introduced a typo.
I am assuming that this is just a good-faith attempt to fix something he thinks is wrong, so a warning and an explanation of when an archive can and cannot be altered should resolve this. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:51, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- All I did was restore what the archive said to begin with.[191] I believe such information is immutable once it is archived. -- Kendrick7talk 04:53, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- [ CitationNeeded ]. Free clue: when you assume that an experienced administrator does something that isn't allowed, you really need to cite the specific policy where you think it is forbidden. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:58, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, if the WP:JANITORs are able to just re-write Wikipedia's history as if we were living in Nineteen Eighty-Four that would be news be me, @Guy Macon:. Our archives are a meaningful measure of where we are and where we've been. Otherwise, why do we bother with archives at all, if they can just be rewritten at any time? -- Kendrick7talk 05:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Did you talk to the admin about it before you came here? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 05:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Are you talking to me? I was called here. I would have liked to have had that convo before Guy made a thing of it, but the admin is on vacation.[192] He probably needed one, Bugs, and I can't fault the guy for that. He was clearly under a lot of pressure to do such a retroactive change. -- Kendrick7talk 05:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Still waiting for that link to a Wikipedia policy that says he wasn't allowed to do that. So far all I have seen is "because Kendrick7 doesn't like it". --Guy Macon (talk) 05:46, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- C'mon do we really need a policy that says that archives are archives, per WP:Commonsense? We simply can't allow admins to close things one way and then a month later change their minds about it, and then to rewrite history to say they were always about the other way in the first place. We mustn't say that is AOK, for obvious reasons. I'm sure that @I JethroBT: thought this made sense. It doesn't. I don't think he should lose the mop over it; it was just a dumb thing to do. -- Kendrick7talk 06:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ahh, but the fact is that I JethroBT Did Not "rewrite history to say they were always about the other way in the first place". He went back and struck through the words, left a dated note,saying " see below" and left a link to the explanation of the change in his decision. Yes, he changed his mind and left a clear record, which you erased. You have removed the evidence of his actions to suit yourself. Going into archives and making changes to the history (his story) of someone's words and actions is so...unethical, that it doesn't need a written rule to state that it is wrong. Tribe of Tiger (talk) 07:56, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- If an admin did it, the presumption should be that he has a good reason for doing it. If you think it was done in mistake, you should raise the incident here, not revert the admin. Anyway, no harm, no foul. Let's consider the issue raised, and await the admin's response. In the mean time, you should leave the archive alone. LK (talk) 06:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- C'mon do we really need a policy that says that archives are archives, per WP:Commonsense? We simply can't allow admins to close things one way and then a month later change their minds about it, and then to rewrite history to say they were always about the other way in the first place. We mustn't say that is AOK, for obvious reasons. I'm sure that @I JethroBT: thought this made sense. It doesn't. I don't think he should lose the mop over it; it was just a dumb thing to do. -- Kendrick7talk 06:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Still waiting for that link to a Wikipedia policy that says he wasn't allowed to do that. So far all I have seen is "because Kendrick7 doesn't like it". --Guy Macon (talk) 05:46, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Are you talking to me? I was called here. I would have liked to have had that convo before Guy made a thing of it, but the admin is on vacation.[192] He probably needed one, Bugs, and I can't fault the guy for that. He was clearly under a lot of pressure to do such a retroactive change. -- Kendrick7talk 05:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Did you talk to the admin about it before you came here? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 05:20, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, if the WP:JANITORs are able to just re-write Wikipedia's history as if we were living in Nineteen Eighty-Four that would be news be me, @Guy Macon:. Our archives are a meaningful measure of where we are and where we've been. Otherwise, why do we bother with archives at all, if they can just be rewritten at any time? -- Kendrick7talk 05:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- [ CitationNeeded ]. Free clue: when you assume that an experienced administrator does something that isn't allowed, you really need to cite the specific policy where you think it is forbidden. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:58, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
(Edit Conflict) Kendrick7, common sense tells me that Wikipedia could have made the archives uneditable (as the history pages are) but chose to make them editable by anyone. I edit archives where needed (usually to fix a link that now goes to an archive, occasionally to add something like "Note added on (date): This was later resolved at (link)." As long as the added material is clearly signed and dated I see no problem and nobody has ever complained.
Despite your false accusation that JethroBT "re-wrote Wikipedia's history as if we were living in Nineteen Eighty-Four" and your snarky edit comment saying that he "did a dumb thing", he did a very smart thing that is not only allowed but encouraged by Wikipedia policy. He struck out (rather than deleting) the obsolete information and left a note (properly signed and dated) explaining where to find the current information.
Did you bother reading WP:COMMONSENSE before invoking it? It clearly says:
"When advancing a position or justifying an action, base your argument on existing agreements, community foundation issues and the interests of the encyclopedia, not your own common sense. Exhorting another editor to "just use common sense" is likely to be taken as insulting, for good reasons."
So again I ask, where is the policy that told you that archives are "immutable"? Where is the discussion where consensus on this was reached? So far all I have seen is "because Kendrick7 doesn't like it" stated three different ways. --Guy Macon (talk) 07:31, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Because it's an archive, and thus obviously not meant to be edited? No one likes a pedant. Jtrainor (talk) 07:50, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...exactly as it says at Help:Archiving a talk page. DMacks (talk) 08:15, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am not finding any language on that page that says anything about whether an archive can be edited other than a see also link to Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages. Would you be so kind as to quote the exact language on that page that you are referring to? --14:28, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- §Continuing discussions states "Given that archived discussions are immutable, archiving a discussion effectively ends that particular discussion." One can debate the "given"ness of that premise, but it's true technically in some archiving methods and others here have made the claim that it's philosophically true. Then "When reopening a discussion is desired, links to archived discussions can be provided in the new discussion thread." so clearly there is an avenue to continue an archived discussion, and it isn't simply circumventing whatever one thinks makes the archived item itself immutable. DMacks (talk) 19:27, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am not finding any language on that page that says anything about whether an archive can be edited other than a see also link to Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages. Would you be so kind as to quote the exact language on that page that you are referring to? --14:28, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- The important thing is that the closing admin left an unmissable new thread on the main discussion page, where it would pop up on watchlists, explaining what he's doing. Kendrick7 is making a fuss over nothing. EEng 22:47, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- So, I was challenged on my initial close of an RfC. I revised my decision based on their arguments because they were compelling and consistent with guidelines/policies. It was important to me that these changes be made clear to editors, and part of that involved orienting folks from that recent RfC in the archives to a newer discussion. It also involved striking part of my closing statement because after being challenged, as I decided my initial conclusion was wrong. The complaint is that archives shouldn't be edited. I agree with that sentiment; they don't normally need to be edited. But I think there was a reason in this circumstance, one that helps editors understand what happened in this complicated topic and why. And great thing is that editors aren't bound by the words on a template when there is a good reason to do something different. I JethroBT drop me a line 00:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Lute88, edit-warring and pro-Ukrainian POV pushing
I basically come against the edits of this user on a regular basis. Typically, they just revert my edits, either with a bogus edit summary, or with unconvincing edit summary. If I revert them, they immediately revert me again, sometimes making up a new edit summary. Apparently, I am not the only one, they were previously blocked for edit-warring. My experience is that they revert everything which can be considered remotely critical to Ukraine. I will not provide all references, their talk page contains enough evidence substantiating what I write, just to give an example, our last intersection was in Book of Veles, a proven hoax which at some point was included to the high school program in Ukraine. I added this info reliably sourced, and Lute88 reverted saying it is a blog (it is not) and did not discuss it at the talk page any further. Fine, that was solved by User:Altenmann, which is much appreciated. Today, I added to Holodomor genocide question a criticism of one of the historians cited there. Well, reliably source. Lute88 first reverted, saying this is not in the source. Fine, I reformulated. They reverted again and moved to the talk page, saying it ia WP:COATRACK. I suggested that they reformulate it themselves and return to the article in whatevever form they want. They said the material is not notable and refused to do it. Well, it just can not continue like this. This is not how Wikipedia should work. I suggest either topic ban from Ukrainian topics (which is apparently not the only topic they are interested in, so they will still have to do a lot on Wikipedia), or at least placing them under 1RR.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:19, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The discussion is underway, and there doesn't seem to be any edit-warring, IMO, at least on my part. And for the record: I didn't revert you, but rahter moved the offending para to Talk.--Lute88 (talk) 19:24, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, you just removed from the article everything I added, on two occasions.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:26, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not quite. The para is in discussion at Talk. I'm not interested in creating a filibuster out of a such a minor bit, but lets not have double standards.--Lute88 (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is exactly the problem. You do not want the material to be in the article, and of course you are not interested in modifying it in any way you find acceptable. You are just interested in removing it. This is your usual behavior, and your talk page has plenty of examples when you run into trouble with other users reverting essential material. It is great that you finally agreed to discuss smth after I said I will take you to ANI, but you should have not reverted reliably sourced material in the first place. We are not now discussing Russian-Ukrainian relations, we are discussing your behavior.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- My behavior is impeccable. If you want to have that para in the article: lets find acceptable sources, preferably not proKremlin. Thats what them talk pages are for.--Lute88 (talk) 19:55, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- And also - the section is about a historian's view of a question. Questions of his _general_ competence and/or tendentiousness should go on his own article, not where you had them.--Lute88 (talk) 20:00, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- However, propaganda is already in the article, and you are removing criticism of the propaganda. This is deteriorating the quality of the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:46, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Speaking about this page, Lute88 reverted your edit per WP:BRD [193]. Quoted source does not really support the statement about the "majority of historians". A discussion is taking place. This is minor content dispute. Speaking about another page you mentioned, here Lute88 removes text sourced to a Ukrainian language website marked on the top as "blog" [194], so this is something reasonable. My very best wishes (talk) 12:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- With so many on-sight reverts, some of the reverts may accidentally be reasonable (and the Book of Veles one was not). Their talk page consists almost exclusively of warnings for edit-warring. Therefore I believe that a topic-ban or a 1RR restriction is long overdue.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then you should probably submit an WP:AE request because this subject area is under discretionary sanctions. But I do not see any recent evidence of misbehaviour by this user. My very best wishes (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is what I am going to do if this request does not attract any attention of administrators, as commons pretty often with ethnic conflicts.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:54, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- You just issued her a notice of discretionary sanctions. Perhaps this will be sufficient. Keep in mind that your diffs with misbehavior by user on AE should be dated after this notice. My very best wishes (talk) 13:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is what I am going to do if this request does not attract any attention of administrators, as commons pretty often with ethnic conflicts.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:54, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then you should probably submit an WP:AE request because this subject area is under discretionary sanctions. But I do not see any recent evidence of misbehaviour by this user. My very best wishes (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- With so many on-sight reverts, some of the reverts may accidentally be reasonable (and the Book of Veles one was not). Their talk page consists almost exclusively of warnings for edit-warring. Therefore I believe that a topic-ban or a 1RR restriction is long overdue.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:37, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Speaking about this page, Lute88 reverted your edit per WP:BRD [193]. Quoted source does not really support the statement about the "majority of historians". A discussion is taking place. This is minor content dispute. Speaking about another page you mentioned, here Lute88 removes text sourced to a Ukrainian language website marked on the top as "blog" [194], so this is something reasonable. My very best wishes (talk) 12:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- However, propaganda is already in the article, and you are removing criticism of the propaganda. This is deteriorating the quality of the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:46, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- My behavior is impeccable. If you want to have that para in the article: lets find acceptable sources, preferably not proKremlin. Thats what them talk pages are for.--Lute88 (talk) 19:55, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is exactly the problem. You do not want the material to be in the article, and of course you are not interested in modifying it in any way you find acceptable. You are just interested in removing it. This is your usual behavior, and your talk page has plenty of examples when you run into trouble with other users reverting essential material. It is great that you finally agreed to discuss smth after I said I will take you to ANI, but you should have not reverted reliably sourced material in the first place. We are not now discussing Russian-Ukrainian relations, we are discussing your behavior.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- There's a bit of a problem here worthy of your attention, contrary of the overall impression of nothing but content disputes between Wikipedians. I'd like to believe that Lute88 means well, but disruptive editing practises are a fact, such as routine use of false edit summaries (i.e. WP:COATRACK, WP:POV about books of history, etc.) coupled with one-click removal of entire sections (and/or online references) from Wikipedia articles on nationalist's grounds. This has been going on for a long time. Pretty much any critical third-party commentary about Ukrainian nationalism is WP:COATRACK for Lute88. [195][196][197] The results are often disturbing especially in relation to antisemitism (changing "yes" to "not" in citations, which actually defines vandalism). [198]Poeticbenttalk 15:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I took part in discussion you linked to [199] and tend to agree with Lute88. Main point here is that crimes by German Nazi and their local supporters on the occupied territories should be included in "Holocaust pages", such as The Holocaust in Ukraine, rather than in "antisemitism pages", such as Antisemitism in the Soviet Union, Antisemitism in Russia, Antisemitism in Ukraine, etc. My very best wishes (talk) 16:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Now, speaking about your last diff, this is not a vandalism by Lute88. This edit was made by Lute88 in December 2014 and since then remains on the page, even though a lot of people edited this page since then. No wonder because her edit was actually consistent with the quoted source that blames Nazi rather than Ukrainians as the primary perpetrators of the genocide in Ukraine. Is that a good faith argument on your part? My very best wishes (talk) 17:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, Lute88 does not practice outright vandalism or massive edit-warring. If they did, they were already blocked, and there were no need to open this topic. All their reverts could have, in principle, be discussed in a civilized way. The problem is that, as Poeticbent correctly noticed above, they revert on the spot everything that remotely looks critical towards Ukrainian nationalism (and they do not seem to be interested in the rest of the articles - for example, in Anti-Ukrainian sentiment they started edit-warring because of one sentence, calling it COATRACK, and ignored my repeated reminders that the rest of the article is below Wikipedia standards. Well, in Holodomor genocide question they reverted twice and did not express any interest in working in the article beyond reverting a sourced statement, saying on different occasions that it is biased, COATRACK, and is not in the source. Then you came, and only then something started at the talk page. In Book of Veles, they just kept reverting, providing different reasons, though 10 seconds is enough to find several reliable sources demonstrating that the book is in Ukrainian school program. Again, they did not express any interest of doing anything except reverting. And this is just in every single Ukraine-related article they touch. Yes, sometimes what they do can be interpreted by other parties as having a point, or possibly having a point. But this is exactly the style of editing which we call disruptive editing - and, well, block users who are persistent.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I can see only two recent reverts by Lute88 on each of these pages [200],[201], she took part in discussions and did not prevent recent editing of these pages by other users (edit histories above). This is hardly someone really disruptive. One would need a much stronger evidence on WP:AE. My very best wishes (talk) 20:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- While there may be some issues, stuff presented here does not seem particularly excessive to warrant serious sanctions.--Staberinde (talk) 10:28, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- If the admins would look into the page history, then it would reveal that this page is effectively WP:OWNed by a gang of disruptive editors such as Iryna Harpy (talk·contribs) [202], Volunteer Marek (talk·contribs) etc., sometimes supported by their associates such as this Lute88 or My Very Best Wishes [203], who will always erase absolutely everything they Don't Like and will add everything they for some reason do like. So the problem is wider than only Lute88. Dorpater (talk) 15:56, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Dorpater, you jump into a discussion which doesn't appear to concern you, just to throw around some gratuitous personal attacks around at other users. Which is clearly WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior. Should you get WP:BOOMERANGed now or do you think a separate section should be opened up just for you? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- In fact, Dorpater, if you actually looked at the edit history of the article in question [204] you'd notice that I haven't made an edit to that article in... FOUR YEARS. Which sort of begs the question... why are you dragging me into this? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:41, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oh man, I just looked through your editing history Dorpater to try and remind myself who exactly you were. So... do I need to file an SPI? Or how about you just drop this account and move on to your next one like you've been doing with all the other ones and save us both a bunch of time. [205][206], etc. Ok "Lokal"? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:45, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Baseless allegations of multiple account use are seen as personal assaults so instead of "threatening" me with "boomerang" or launching this or that it may well be that I'd need to start an AE request concerning your behaviour. The outcome of which would most probably be a topic ban from the whole EE area for you. Decide yourself. Dorpater (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- You said that I was part of a "gang" that controls this article, despite the fact that I haven't edited the article in four years! *That* is a "baseless personal attack".
- And your - brand new - edit history - does show the exact same interests (European political parties, anti-Muslim stuff, Ukraine and Eastern Europe) as a certain indef banned user. I'll be happy to file an SPI. You can go to WP:AE if you want to, your business.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Feel free to file such a request at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations, here it's off-topic (and I'm curious about "anti-Muslim stuff" I supposedly promote here ;)). I mentioned you because your editing those years ago is fully in line with the current custom there whereby an article supposedly devoted to a dispute has been kept so partisan that one major view is not even mentioned there.Dorpater (talk) 20:33, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- "I mentioned you because your editing those years ago is fully in line ..." - in other words your personal attack that I was supposedly part of some gang despite not having edited the article in four years was completely baseless and now you're just making excuses.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:58, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, dear. Dorpater, I'm afraid you've let your POV slip. Not only did you restore content from someone who is neither an expert in the field, nor relevant to the article (other than being well known in the West: which isn't a qualification for inclusion, but does qualify as POV pushing), you also upped the ante by tweaking the restored content here so that it read as being not only redundant, but as blatantly WP:WEASEL and an exercise in heavily loaded language using your own direct translation from the Russian.
- Feel free to file such a request at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations, here it's off-topic (and I'm curious about "anti-Muslim stuff" I supposedly promote here ;)). I mentioned you because your editing those years ago is fully in line with the current custom there whereby an article supposedly devoted to a dispute has been kept so partisan that one major view is not even mentioned there.Dorpater (talk) 20:33, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Baseless allegations of multiple account use are seen as personal assaults so instead of "threatening" me with "boomerang" or launching this or that it may well be that I'd need to start an AE request concerning your behaviour. The outcome of which would most probably be a topic ban from the whole EE area for you. Decide yourself. Dorpater (talk) 19:11, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I can see only two recent reverts by Lute88 on each of these pages [200],[201], she took part in discussions and did not prevent recent editing of these pages by other users (edit histories above). This is hardly someone really disruptive. One would need a much stronger evidence on WP:AE. My very best wishes (talk) 20:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, Lute88 does not practice outright vandalism or massive edit-warring. If they did, they were already blocked, and there were no need to open this topic. All their reverts could have, in principle, be discussed in a civilized way. The problem is that, as Poeticbent correctly noticed above, they revert on the spot everything that remotely looks critical towards Ukrainian nationalism (and they do not seem to be interested in the rest of the articles - for example, in Anti-Ukrainian sentiment they started edit-warring because of one sentence, calling it COATRACK, and ignored my repeated reminders that the rest of the article is below Wikipedia standards. Well, in Holodomor genocide question they reverted twice and did not express any interest in working in the article beyond reverting a sourced statement, saying on different occasions that it is biased, COATRACK, and is not in the source. Then you came, and only then something started at the talk page. In Book of Veles, they just kept reverting, providing different reasons, though 10 seconds is enough to find several reliable sources demonstrating that the book is in Ukrainian school program. Again, they did not express any interest of doing anything except reverting. And this is just in every single Ukraine-related article they touch. Yes, sometimes what they do can be interpreted by other parties as having a point, or possibly having a point. But this is exactly the style of editing which we call disruptive editing - and, well, block users who are persistent.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Now, speaking about your last diff, this is not a vandalism by Lute88. This edit was made by Lute88 in December 2014 and since then remains on the page, even though a lot of people edited this page since then. No wonder because her edit was actually consistent with the quoted source that blames Nazi rather than Ukrainians as the primary perpetrators of the genocide in Ukraine. Is that a good faith argument on your part? My very best wishes (talk) 17:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I took part in discussion you linked to [199] and tend to agree with Lute88. Main point here is that crimes by German Nazi and their local supporters on the occupied territories should be included in "Holocaust pages", such as The Holocaust in Ukraine, rather than in "antisemitism pages", such as Antisemitism in the Soviet Union, Antisemitism in Russia, Antisemitism in Ukraine, etc. My very best wishes (talk) 16:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not quite. The para is in discussion at Talk. I'm not interested in creating a filibuster out of a such a minor bit, but lets not have double standards.--Lute88 (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sure, you just removed from the article everything I added, on two occasions.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:26, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- At the heart of your accusations is an article specifically dealing with the positions of experts who do or don't believe Holodomor to be genocidal in nature, how they have formulated their opinions, and why they maintain their positions on the issue. Your action was to reinstate WP:UNDUE content with an extra dash of hysteria (i.e., "provocatory shriek [...] by Ukrainian chauvinists"). Not only does it read as unadulterated propaganda straight out of a yellow press blog, but was/is grammatically awkward. Oh, what am I saying? It's abysmal (but great copy for the likes of Izvestia and other yellow press).
- So, before you go on with asking admins and other editors to delve into what you are decrying as being implicitly 'cabal' and OWN activity, I would ask that they take a little look at behaviour of the accuser and the calibre of 'neutrality' this 'cabal' is suppressing. What, in fact, is being rejected is the highly POV content of a highly POV editor working as an SPA. The questioning and quashing of such content is not conspiratorial but the expression and manifestation of good editorship skills on behalf of the intervening editors. N.B. I fully support VM's proposed BOOMERANG. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
User:LeonRaper
(non-admin closure) Editor blocked by Drmies per WP:NOTHERE --Cameron11598 (Talk) 02:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
LeonRaper (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has used Wikipedia for soapboaxing and acted uncivil toward User:Thomas.W, saying "I think you should do your homework in the future before you make negative statements about anyone" after receiving a final warning for harassment. He received a notice for having a conflict of interest and has created and then recreated an autobiography, although it was moved to the draft namespace. Also has been reported to ANEW. —MRD2014 (formerly Qpalzmmzlapq) T C 13:47, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I really tried to help this user create a neutrally-worded, referenced article. I don't know if he's notable or not but I assumed good faith and gave him the benefit of the doubt. He claims to be around 80 years old and I took that into account. The discussion didn't go well, with him saying we were giving him "BS about web links" and so on, but I tried. Since then, several editors have tried to help him. I noticed the AN3 report last night and gave a look; I had to contact Oversight because he was giving out phone numbers of third parties for us to call to verify his claims. I think he's now exhausted the patience of the community and he needs to stop. Katietalk 13:58, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @KrakatoaKatie: I think a temporary block may be necessary. —MRD2014(formerly Qpalzmmzlapq)TC 14:00, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I support a block. I tried helping him out, it wasn't getting anywhere, he kept on emailing and talking me even when I stopped doing anything to the page. By the looks of it, Theroadislong is having exactly the same experience with him.
- That and the constant flurry of the same questions at the Teahouse, getting the same responses, and him doing basically the same replies.
- Frankly, he seems to be only to self-promote, rather than being here to contribute positively to the encyclopedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:04, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Teahouse discussions here, Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 480#New proposed Wikipedia web page. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:07, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think he understands either Wikipedia itself or the etiquette of technology or both; which may not be his fault, but can't be allowed to disrupt in any case. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 14:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sadly agree with all of the above I have tried to help him too, but he appears to be incapable of reading any of the copious advice he has been given. If he is notable we can create the article without his "help". Theroadislong (talk) 14:11, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think he understands either Wikipedia itself or the etiquette of technology or both; which may not be his fault, but can't be allowed to disrupt in any case. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 14:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @KrakatoaKatie: I think a temporary block may be necessary. —MRD2014(formerly Qpalzmmzlapq)TC 14:00, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have tried to help in the past also, but he does not appear to understand. This could have to do with him being 80 along with a stroke 2 years ago. I have looked for sources to get something published but could not find any. Not sure where to go with him, but he is not making it easy to work with him. -- GBfan 16:05, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I came in to this via an OTRS request for help and have, along with many others, to help him and to try to find sources for his biography. Because of that and his stated age, I have given him much more rope than I would be inclined to give most users. He seems to be unwilling to learn this sites policies, procedures or even follow simple sinstructions like indenting and signing his posts properly. Now that his draft has been declined again today amd with no real prospect for more sources with better coverage, it is time to explain to him that there will be no article. If, after that, he continues to act disruptivly then an indef for NOTHERE is in order. JbhTalk 16:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) His autobiography (Leon Raper) has been speedied twice for lack of notability, without stopping him, instead he tried to create it again through AFC (as Draft:Leon Raper), where it so far has been declined three times for the same reason, but he still doesn't get it, in spite of repeated attempts by a considerable number of editors here to explain things to him, and help him. So even though I feel sorry for him I feel that it's time to put a stop to it. Thomas.W talk 16:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps a tad bit more care and gentleness could have been used in explaining how Wikipedia works to him (not that this is required)..For one thing, he seems to be under the impression that the editors he's been interacting with are employees of Wikipedia and he's upset at the "customer service" he's been receiving..It seems too that perhaps too many people were piling on in a sense and continuously referring him to policy pages that he simply didn't/wasn't capable of understanding instead of just allowing one or two editors deal with him on a more personal level...I think a block when be unsavory at this point, particularly toward an apparently good-natured elderly man..Wikipedia does have an interest in public relations..I could be wrong..68.48.241.158 (talk) 16:30, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Excellent point. Consider yourself the recipient of the Good Natured Barn Star :) Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 17:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- A good point, but it wouldn't solve the main problem, the repeated attempts to create an autobiography, with no sources that establish notability, and even more repeated attempts to add his own name to a list of award recipients, with no sources at all. Thomas.W talk 16:47, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well he has been all over the place basicly forum shopping for help. He has emailed several editors as well. The reason he keeps getting policy quoted to him is he seems to be more concerned about his article than anything else. At least three editors have explained the issues to him as well as giving him links to policy pages.
Why he thinks editors are employees is beyond me. I have explicitly told him that the editors trying to help him are volunteers using their own personal time. He has just worn out a few different iterations of editors in his quest for a biography on Wikipedia. JbhTalk 17:17, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- He seems to genuinely believe that information contained within an article about himself (particularly directions to websites) could be useful to the community of swing dancers (particularly the community in southern California?)...this may be true but it may be very niche too/not Wikipedia notable/not able to be sourced etc...I think it's true too that he would simply like to have an article about himself on some level..for various reasons he may not be able to understand Wikipedia/Wikipedia policy...so, indeed, at some point he'd have to be moved along if this is the case...idk..but you can't but feel sorry for the guy when you look through his interactions..perhaps some of the links to some of his sites can be added to the "swing dance" article..I have no idea..68.48.241.158 (talk) 17:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Reading LeonRaper's talk page left me with nervous jitters and a stomach ache. I don't think this user will ever be capable of understanding how to edit Wikipedia, and is only here to create an autobiographical article about a non-notable person, so there's really nothing reasonable to do except to indef block for WP:CIR. It's unfortunate, I wish it weren't so, but the evidence is irrefutable: this editor cannot seem to learn, and will simply keep abusing our resources and the patience of editors who attempt to help him. I wouldn't be adverse to a final warning before the block, but I have no doubt that the block will be the ultimate solution. BMK (talk) 18:18, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I agree--and I'd hate to make that block, but ... oh wait, it's time for me to clock out. I'll leave it for the next admin to make this necessary but disagreeable block. Drmies (talk) 18:29, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ah well. I made it a NOTHERE block. BMK, will you do me a huge favor and leave a kind note for the editor? (Without bold and italics, if you know what I mean...) I really have to go, but I think the editor deserves a note, sort of repeating what you said here. Thanks--I appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 18:31, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- He's an eighty-year old man. What the fuck is going on? FortunaImperatrix Mundi 19:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- It really doesn't matter how old or how young you are, you still have to be able to understand and follow rules and procedures. As Jbhunley pointed out above, he's been given a great deal of leeway because of his age, which is confirmed by his talk page. An editor who was not 80 who repeatedly recreated an autobiographical article deleted for non-notability would have been blocked faster and with less delicacy, so I don't think there's a valid complaint that he's been mistreated or mishandled. BMK (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- BTW, don't you think "He's an 80 year old man" is sorta an ageist complaint? My mother is 81, my mother-in-law will be 90 in a few days, I regularly work alongside people in that age range, and, while some adjustments may have to be made in consideration of their relative mental acuity, all of them are still competent human beings. There is no reason why we should expect an 80 year old man not to be able to comprehend and follow standard rules per se, especially when they're given a great deal of assistance and leeway. BMK (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- This. My parents are roughly the same age and are perfectly capable of working within our guidelines. I find it interesting that LeonRaper claimed to have coded all those websites but couldn't manage wikimarkup, which is way simpler than HTML (at least to me). Oh, well. I might see him at UTRS sometime. Katietalk 22:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I must've been feeling uncharacteristically sympathetic last night. Good work everyone! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 03:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- This. My parents are roughly the same age and are perfectly capable of working within our guidelines. I find it interesting that LeonRaper claimed to have coded all those websites but couldn't manage wikimarkup, which is way simpler than HTML (at least to me). Oh, well. I might see him at UTRS sometime. Katietalk 22:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- BTW, don't you think "He's an 80 year old man" is sorta an ageist complaint? My mother is 81, my mother-in-law will be 90 in a few days, I regularly work alongside people in that age range, and, while some adjustments may have to be made in consideration of their relative mental acuity, all of them are still competent human beings. There is no reason why we should expect an 80 year old man not to be able to comprehend and follow standard rules per se, especially when they're given a great deal of assistance and leeway. BMK (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- It really doesn't matter how old or how young you are, you still have to be able to understand and follow rules and procedures. As Jbhunley pointed out above, he's been given a great deal of leeway because of his age, which is confirmed by his talk page. An editor who was not 80 who repeatedly recreated an autobiographical article deleted for non-notability would have been blocked faster and with less delicacy, so I don't think there's a valid complaint that he's been mistreated or mishandled. BMK (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Apparent proxy edit for a banned user
RESOLVED | |
Edit was valid. NE Ent 10:40, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It appears that User:The Wordsmith has made an edit on behalf of banned editor User:Thekohser. Our policy states: "Wikipedians in turn are not permitted to post or edit material at the direction of a banned editor (sometimes called proxy editing or proxying)...". I will revert the edit and notify The Wordsmith. - 2601:42:C104:28F0:D139:A61E:D642:7FDD (talk) 10:18, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- A good example of wp:IAR and wp:BURO. I hope you are not serious about keeping this atrocious sentence:
I have undone your revert on behalf of myself. Hope you can live with that. - DVdm (talk) 10:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)Deyonta Davis (born December 2, 1996) is an American basketball Who played for...
- I've done the same and so have many others, so I don't see a problem. We aren't talking about major edits or problematic edits (soapboxing, vandalism, POV, etc), we are talking about fixing an obvious mistake. If the suggestion is of the type that I would have done myself had I seen it first, then I don't see a problem with making it regardless of who suggests it. The fact remains, Deyota is a player, not a basketball, so it seems spiteful to not make the edit. thekohser is banned but the point of not proxying for banned users is to deny them a platform, it isn't to avoid fixing spelling or grammar. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sneaking this in for the record: WP:PROXYING states (my emphasis added): "Wikipedians in turn are not permitted to post or edit material at the direction of a banned editor (sometimes called proxy editing or proxying) unless they are able to show that the changes are either verifiable or productive and they have independent reasons for making such edits." As the edits were clearly productive and anyone could independently decide to make the same one, its allowed by policy. IAR and NOTBURO not required. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Short military bios in Draft
Working through a page of stale Draftspace pages I am coming across dozens of very short pages on WWII German military people and at least one holocaust surviver. Typical examples found with several warnings and many deletion notices at User talk:Mad7744 but no evidence of any response. Earlier he was doing this in mainspace but now is doing it in draftspace. I suggest an Admin go through his page creations and delete all similar pages rather then us having to tag each individually. He is a prolific page creator, pretty much all on military bios.
- [207] many page creations
- 88 mainspace pages - 28 deleted so far [208] Legacypac (talk) 05:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- He's creating stub articles - nothing wrong with that, they're in Draft Space not article space. KoshVorlon 11:26, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Removal of copy violation claim
Well, i'm not sure whether to go here or directly to WP:ARBPIA, but let's try here first without sanctions and stuff. It seems that user:Sean.hoyland removed the copyvio template from template:Palestinian territory development, violating the procedure guidelines. There should certainly be a discussion on whether this is a copy violation or not (concerning the usage of six maps in series to promote a certain political agenda), but semantics aside Sean violated the technical procedure, which is highly problematic.GreyShark (dibra) 20:06, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- No, your copyvio claim was malformed, claiming it is a copyright violation of a home page for the office of the Palestinian president. There is nothing on there that is close to these maps. Besides that, these maps arent copyrighted by themselves, and aggregating them does not magically confer copyright on them. Regardless of that last bit, your edit was malformed in that it claimed a copyright violation of a website that doesnt in any way resemble the image shown on our page. nableezy - 20:17, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Nableezy has the right of it, I think - the source doesn't include the material tagged as a copyvio. Greyshark, if you have evidence that the maps are taken directly from some other page, feel free to post it here for discussion. If your concern is that these maps, in this format and this sequence, present some message that matches a message presented elsewhere, and that THAT is what is being copied... no, that's not quite how copyvio works. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 20:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
By the way, thats a template thats transcluded on 3 fairly often read articles here, a template that you nominated for merge and nominated for deletion. A copyright violation accusation is fairly serious and it shouldnt just be used to remove material you disagree with as part of some checklist of ways to remove material from Wikipedia. Putting that copyvio template on this has somewhat far-reaching impacts, and given how long youve tried to have the template removed by other means I have to question the motivation in using this tactic now. nableezy - 20:51, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've interacted on this template for quite a while; recently while reading the Mahmmud Abbas' webpage, it did strike me that the source for the images is his and "Palestinian territory development" is highly misleading, actually being a copy-paste from Mahmud Abbas' page. Looking into more resolution and details, the images indeed morphed into a slightly different style over time. However, i would take a deeper look whether earlier versions were a copy-paste; i assume that the original copyvio thus could have been corrected (if indeed copyviolated).GreyShark (dibra) 13:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The logic above is not completely sound. A single set of events may bring a whole slew of charges by a prosecutor without raising that "question", even by the most aggressive defense. A single inclusion may be a violation of multiple rules or laws, and while a prosecutor's office can try them all at once in court, an individual on Wikipedia can often manage only one process of appeal at a time, given the individual's limited resources. Let us not give any weight to that argument. Grammar's Li'l Helper Discourse 21:08, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Maps are indeed copyrightable and the site has a copyright notice, I'm not sure what the issue is. If the tag has the wrong URL, so redo with correct URL but we all know what site he's referring to so we know that the maps are not allowed here without permission. Sir Joseph(talk) 23:39, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Assuming GreyShark09 is referring to http://president.ps/eng/interviewdetails.aspx?id=3823, there is no copyvio: the template and the linked page use similar maps to express similar ideas, but absolutely nothing has been copied. --Carnildo (talk) 01:34, 12 May 2016
- None of the maps match each other in addition to the fact the Palestinian Authority's copyright notice doesn't really matter because the maps they created exist in public domain. I have made those maps myself long ago using other sources and the PA's maps have some serious mistakes. Some are technical and some are for the purpose of misleading and those mistakes are not repeated in template's maps. It would be like saying the map used in the article of the United States is stolen from the website of the American Congress while the map of the US exists in so many other places.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 03:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm well aware of the technical procedure with respect to copyright template removal and I removed it anyway here with the edit summary "surely you don't mean http://president.ps/eng/interviewdetails.aspx?id=3823" because there is no evidence of copyright violation, exactly as I would have done if a vandal had added the template, thus making Wikipedia content inaccessible to readers. I've asked GreyShark to carefully explain and justify their edit atTemplate_talk:Palestinian_territory_development#Copyvio_allegation and at User_talk:Greyshark09#Copyvio. Instead they came here. If this proves to be a misuse of the WP:COPYVIO as a tool in an ARBPIA related content dispute (to which I am not a party) there should be consequences, a warning at the very least. Copyright violation is a serious matter and the tools for dealing with it should never be misused. There are 500+ active admins and this is a matter that would benefit from admin attention. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- As a single topic editor in ARBPIA space, i guess you are more familiar with the edit-warring on that topic. If you strongly feel that i'm a single topic editor as well and spend my days over edit-warring on ARPBIA pages, you are welcome to press charges. Per WP:GF i decided not to go to topic sanctions page, due to the fact that the copyvio is a fairly technical issue; I'm still not sure you are eligible to remove the copyvio template by yourself. Are you?GreyShark (dibra) 13:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm thinking Sean Hoyland jumped the gun too quickly here. this image, which is featured in the template comes from this image on commons, which in turn is a photograph of a professionally produced image made elsewhere. Per Wikipedia's own rules, this image is copyrighted and therefore the claim of copyright infringement looks plausible. I'm not a huge copyright expert so I won't replace the copyright notice on the page, however, it looks like Greyshark is right , however I defer to our resident copyright expert's opinion to be sure!
- It's entirely possible that I jumped the gun, but I don't think the information you have provided indicates that that is the case. The UN map is, as far as Wikipedians know, in the public domain, which is presumably why it's in Commons rather than Wikipedia, and a map derived from that UN map will not be a copyright violation as far as I'm aware. That was also not the stated reason for the application of the copyvio template. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:04, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm thinking Sean Hoyland jumped the gun too quickly here. this image, which is featured in the template comes from this image on commons, which in turn is a photograph of a professionally produced image made elsewhere. Per Wikipedia's own rules, this image is copyrighted and therefore the claim of copyright infringement looks plausible. I'm not a huge copyright expert so I won't replace the copyright notice on the page, however, it looks like Greyshark is right , however I defer to our resident copyright expert's opinion to be sure!
Greyshark, did you
- a) apply the copyvio template because you identified a copyright violation
- or b) apply the copyvio template for reasons unrelated to copyright.
If a), you applied the copyvio template because you identified a copyright violation, can you explicitly confirm whether the following statements are true or false
- your edit summary 'the map is almost entirely a copy-paste of the Mahmud Abbas webpage under "Palestinian position on current issues"' is referring to the maps in this page available via the "Political Position" link in president.ps/eng
- you are claiming the maps in the template Template:Palestinian_territory_development are "almost entirely a copy-paste" of the maps in this page
If, as you say here, "The copyvio is so evident to me (in earlier versions of the map collage)", provide an example diff for a revision of the "earlier versions of the map collage" you refer to that violate copyright.
If b), you applied the copyvio template for reasons unrelated to copyright, describe those reasons so that admins can decide whether they are compatible with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:04, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Interesting. In evidence is an effort by "Greyshark" to remove, on spurious and deceitful grounds, maps showing the evolution of territorial control in Israel/Palestine in the past 80 years. Why? He doesn't like the reality these maps demonstrate being observed and known. It turns out he's tried to airbrush these maps out of Wikipedia before. This is not the sort of person who should be contributing to an encyclopedia on this topic. I'm sure he will continue to, though.Dan Murphy (talk) 16:40, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Again, my knowledge of copyright isn't great, however, my understanding of it is , that wikipedia follows the Berne Convention when it comes to copyright, that is, that an item is copyrighted by its creator on the moment of it's creation, and thus is considered copyrighted unless it is explicitly stated that the work is Public Domain. This would make that image copyrighted, and not public domain. KoshVorlon 17:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I assume the statement "This would make that image copyrighted" refers to the UN map made by @Zero0000: to include the boundary of previous UNSCOP partition plan, derived from the original UN map, and released into the public domain by Zero, with the standard Commons template that states "Unless stated otherwise, UN maps are to be considered in the public domain. This applies worldwide." If so, that is not relevant to this issue because a) that image is not used b) that was not the stated reason for the use of the copyvio template and c) derived works such as [209] are not copyright violations. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sean.hoyland on the actual map itself there's nothing on it that says it's public domain, therefore it can't be assumed that it is, rather, copyright is assumed under the Berne Convention. KoshVorlon 11:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- UN maps are open source material and you can use them in your work or for making your own map. We request however that you delete the UN name and reference number upon any modification to the map. Content of your map will be your responsibility. You can state in your publication if you wish something like: based on UN map… nableezy - 15:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Whether anything can or cannot be assumed about that UN map is not relevant to this case because that map is not relevant to this ANI thread and the template at issue. Discussions about the copyright status of the UN map should take place in Commons. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Sean.hoyland on the actual map itself there's nothing on it that says it's public domain, therefore it can't be assumed that it is, rather, copyright is assumed under the Berne Convention. KoshVorlon 11:16, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I assume the statement "This would make that image copyrighted" refers to the UN map made by @Zero0000: to include the boundary of previous UNSCOP partition plan, derived from the original UN map, and released into the public domain by Zero, with the standard Commons template that states "Unless stated otherwise, UN maps are to be considered in the public domain. This applies worldwide." If so, that is not relevant to this issue because a) that image is not used b) that was not the stated reason for the use of the copyvio template and c) derived works such as [209] are not copyright violations. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- At the same time, what appears to be happening is that the maps here in the template are user-made SVG versions using data from maps that are under copyrights. While a specific map image may be copyrightable, the data on that map is not, so the user recreating the SVG versions is in the clear (this is part of what The Graphics Lab functions as to make free versions of copyrighted images that are otherwise based on uncopyrightable data. So there doesn't appear to be any copyright violation here. --MASEM (t) 17:32, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The amusing thing here, of course, is that the PA and countless other organizations would be quite happy to license maps for use in Wikipedia articles for the price of an email or phone call. But, again: This not about copyright. It's about hiding facts that don't suit "Greyshark's" political agenda.Dan Murphy (talk) 17:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Dan Murphy: There should be penalty for blaming people for WP:NOTHERE on ANI discussions the way you do. You clearly don't know user:Greyshark09's agenda and neither do I (He is somewhat mysterious). There's a discussion about copyvio so keep it a dicussion on copyvio. Thanks--Bolter21(talk to me) 23:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- I wasn't born yesterday kid. I can observe his behavior, a pattern over quite a period of time, and deduce his agenda.Dan Murphy (talk) 01:51, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Which would be a personal attack absent you actually presenting the evidence, so dont do it. If you feel he has an ulterior motive, take it to the NPOV or COIN noticeboards and make your case there. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- The pattern is already presented here. A request for merge, then a request for deletion of the same template. Wait that didnt work, how else can I hide the material. Oh oh oh I know, a copyright violation claim, that completely blanks the template! Brilliant! nableezy - 15:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Which would be a personal attack absent you actually presenting the evidence, so dont do it. If you feel he has an ulterior motive, take it to the NPOV or COIN noticeboards and make your case there. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I wasn't born yesterday kid. I can observe his behavior, a pattern over quite a period of time, and deduce his agenda.Dan Murphy (talk) 01:51, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Dan Murphy: There should be penalty for blaming people for WP:NOTHERE on ANI discussions the way you do. You clearly don't know user:Greyshark09's agenda and neither do I (He is somewhat mysterious). There's a discussion about copyvio so keep it a dicussion on copyvio. Thanks--Bolter21(talk to me) 23:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- The amusing thing here, of course, is that the PA and countless other organizations would be quite happy to license maps for use in Wikipedia articles for the price of an email or phone call. But, again: This not about copyright. It's about hiding facts that don't suit "Greyshark's" political agenda.Dan Murphy (talk) 17:44, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Using an existing map, even one copyrighted, to make a new map that shows the same geographical shape is not usually a copyright violation. It is actually more of a violation to copy the coloring and presentation (if the latter is creative enough). The basic idea is that copyright protects creative content, not the pre-existing factual basis if it is well-known. Greyshark should make a case on the copyright pages, which I'm confident will not be successful. It is ridiculous to add highly dubious tags and demand that nobody remove them on pain of being brought here. Zerotalk 01:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- Again, my knowledge of copyright isn't great, however, my understanding of it is , that wikipedia follows the Berne Convention when it comes to copyright, that is, that an item is copyrighted by its creator on the moment of it's creation, and thus is considered copyrighted unless it is explicitly stated that the work is Public Domain. This would make that image copyrighted, and not public domain. KoshVorlon 17:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I looks to me as though Greyshark has wasted a significant amount of everyone's time. Given his two previous attempts to have the page removed using unrelated arguments, we should set a high bar when considering whether this was an intentional and deceitful misuse of Wikipedia process. Oncenawhile (talk) 18:35, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- You mean like your actions at the Israel Palestine conflict page?19:37, 14 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greyshark09 (talk • contribs)
- Remember, you brought me to ANI, not Oncenawhile. I asked you some simple and straightforward questions above (starting with 'Greyshark, did you'). Answering those questions would clarify matters. It's important to establish why you applied the copyvio template when there doesn't appear to be any evidence of a copyright violation. You can provide a simple and straightforward answer to that question and then admins (and editors who may need to interact with you in ARBPIA) can decide whether you followed due process, whether you made a mistake or whether you employed deception. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:53, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Id very much like to see even a token attempt at answering those questions as well Greyshark09. nableezy - 22:22, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Remember, you brought me to ANI, not Oncenawhile. I asked you some simple and straightforward questions above (starting with 'Greyshark, did you'). Answering those questions would clarify matters. It's important to establish why you applied the copyvio template when there doesn't appear to be any evidence of a copyright violation. You can provide a simple and straightforward answer to that question and then admins (and editors who may need to interact with you in ARBPIA) can decide whether you followed due process, whether you made a mistake or whether you employed deception. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:53, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Consistent incivility by user Vormeph
BLOCKED | |
Vormeph blocked by KrakatoaKatie for 1 month for personal attacks and harassment. Liz Read! Talk! 13:35, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Vormeph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
User @Vormeph: has been consistently disrespectful to other users, with a history (over the last two months) of edit warring, WP:NPA, POV-pushing and failing to get the point. He has been warned, blocked, etc. several times, at some point listing a "naughty list" of other editors (disclaimer: including myself) on his user page, which was forcibly removed by an admin.
Offensive behavior:
- "UCaetano is Iranian himself (it says so on his userpage) so he naturally has a bias towards Iran and his argument that Iran and Persia are used interchangeably. For argument's sake, he needs to terminate his bias and execute the actions of the majority faithfully lest he be discredited as being a worthy diplomat" here
- "Just a few more steps and you'll come to your senses with reality." here
- "When are you going to come out of your shell and realise that a bit of UV light won't harm ya?" here
- "His comments borderline on trolling, therefore I've resorted to blanking him until he appeals to reason.", " It may have been in your hay days, but no longer. If you cannot grasp this reality, then burying your head underground as the world goes by is your only option I'm afraid. If need be, I can provide a shovel free of charge at your disposal." here
- "Unfortunately, such editors are nationalists and have abused the concept of consensus to advance their interests. It is a growing worry that editors such as @Rwenonah:, @LjL: have become swayed over this." here
- His previous "naughty list" on his user page, removed by @KrakatoaKatie:
- Other editors who have been subject of his WP:NPA attacks: @LouisAragon:, @McGeddon:, @Aidepikiwnirotide:
Before his current wave of offensive behavior, he previously called other editors eunuchs, told them to bend over, for which he was blocked. This isn't a single occurrence, this is consistent incivility despite multiple warning and blocks. Here's my latest warning to him, which he just removed shortly after. He's been brought up here multiple times as well. This is besides the consistent POV-pushing over several months in Talk:Iran, which I won't go over. Please take a careful look at this situation. Thanks. UCaetano (talk) 12:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- @UCaetano: You must love me so much to the degree that you'd follow whatever I do on Wikipedia. If you would like to go on a date some time, then I suggest good conscience and perhaps some more from you than posterior poking. Vormeph (talk) 12:44, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- That's enough – not going to put up with comments like this one. Blocked one month for NPA and harassment. Katietalk 12:53, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- You beat me to it! I've removed personal attacks from their user page and warned that they'll face an indef block if I see such attacks again. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- That's enough – not going to put up with comments like this one. Blocked one month for NPA and harassment. Katietalk 12:53, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- ...and since he took it upon himself to threaten retaliation on his talk page, I increased his block to indefinite and revoked both email and talk page access. Katietalk 14:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Constant additions of unsourced content
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Reporting Qaz102 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for constant additions of unsourced fan-based content after multiple reverts over several days, and after being told to discuss it on the talk page, which they have not. The added content is [210], and the reverts are [211], [212], [213], [214], listed at The Doctor (Doctor Who) (edit talk history links watch logs). Alex The Whovian? 12:33, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Looks like they haven't repeated it since their final warning. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:17, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- The final warning was added after their last revert, which was only an hour ago. As mentioned, this has been going on over the past few days. Alex The Whovian? 13:25, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I take that back. They added it again, this time with further unsourced fan-based content [215]. Alex The Whovian? 13:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- OK, 24-hour block issued for edit warring to insert OR. Will escalate if it continues. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
User:HeroChaos
HeroChaos blocked indefinitely as lacking proximity to the project (non-admin closure) Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 15:55, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Please have a look at this user page. Particularly administrators. But be careful, he'll take you to ArbCom just for lookin' at him. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 13:01, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Also, see this template he seems to have created, and already used once at Moxy's page. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 13:13, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Looks like they also edited as 146.0.229.49 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) per the continuing of this thread -- samtartalk or stalk 13:17, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Cheers User:Samtar. God only knows how come he's still here! FortunaImperatrix Mundi 13:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't see a single edit to the encyclopedia, and he's definitely earned the NOTHERE block I just gave him. It's my day, I guess. Katietalk 13:29, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hey, in this life, we get the vandals we deserve eh
Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 13:37, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hey, in this life, we get the vandals we deserve eh
- I don't see a single edit to the encyclopedia, and he's definitely earned the NOTHERE block I just gave him. It's my day, I guess. Katietalk 13:29, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Cheers User:Samtar. God only knows how come he's still here! FortunaImperatrix Mundi 13:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Bomb Threat to Wikipedia
NAC, User Blocked, edit redacted. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:28, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
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[216] contains a threat to blow up Wikipedia headquarters. This was issued by a school IP address, contains a grammatical mistake, and does not appear credible. I have emailed emergency@wikimedia.org as per Wikipedia:Responding_to_threats_of_harm to ensure they are aware of the threat. They have acknowledged receipt. I believe no further action is required. --Yamla (talk) 13:15, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- It seems that someone suppressed the revision in which the unblock request that contained the threat was made, but they did not redact it from or suppress the subsequent revision containing the declined unblock request - and so it was still there in the latest revision for all to see. I've now redacted the threat and have rev-deleted the revision containing it. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
User:Some1asks
(non-admin closure) Talk page access revoked by Bbb23 and sock blocked and tagged by Mike V --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Blocked by User:Yamla, is now threatening to sock. can someone please revoke T/P access please; I gently advised him as to undesirability of his actions but WP:NOTHERE at all, any more. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 13:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Legal threats, too. Can someone swing the banhammer, please? Kleuske (talk) 13:41, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, User:Bbb23. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 14:02, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- new sock - Mum Bot(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)87.112.150.22 (talk) 15:38, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Possible error in Wikipedia
Group effort: IP editor User:2001:14BA:21E6:C200:1C5D:2772:3851:BAD fixed the template, User:AstroLynx later temporarily removed the template (I think there was a delay in the job queue that made the old template still display), and User:Yamla warned the POV pusher. All I got to do was protect the template and restore it to the article. All fixed now. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:06, 18 May 2016 (UTC) |
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please verify: Illustris project This page displays different content in ""overview"" section than available in edit form and also it violates NPOV (it advocates creationist pov).--Asterixf2 (talk) 16:43, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- How does it advocate that? I suggest it does no such thing (it wouldn't even mention the Big Bang if it did!). FortunaImperatrix Mundi 16:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- It did, because of template vandalism, but doesn't anymore. Thanks for the report, User:Asterixf2. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ah it had already been removed. See what you mean. Nice one. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 16:57, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- It did, because of template vandalism, but doesn't anymore. Thanks for the report, User:Asterixf2. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Alert! There's a possible error in Wikipedia! EEng 07:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Abusing multiple accounts
(non-admin closure) Both accounts blocked as vandalism only accounts by Nyttend --Cameron11598 (Talk) 04:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
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These two accounts are both editing the same two pages, and the accounts were created at the same time. (IP's cannot open SPI investigations, so I brought it here instead). Can a check-user confirm a link between these two accounts? Thanks. 172.56.42.13 (talk) 03:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Who cares? But seriously, thank you for bringing them to attention here. Both are vandalism-only accounts, so I've blocked both of them indefinitely, regardless of any socking issues. Given the backlogs at SPI and the ease of dealing with simple vandals, you'll probably get faster responses if you vandals as vandals rather than as socks. That's not a complaint about what you're doing (keep it up, and you shouldn't get anything except thanks); it's simply an observation about the speed with which we tend to deal with different types of problematic editors. Nyttend (talk)
Alleged Soapboxing VS Gatekeeping: Cyberbullying and Cyberstalking
IP. please listen to what Grayfell tells you, and please stop filing ANI threads. (non-admin closure) Softlavender (talk) 12:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
CYBERBULLYING AND CYBERSTALKING
I am disturbed at the prospect that Wikipedia would provide users with the tools to track other users across pages, no matter how experienced or trusted or how respected within the in crowd of wikipedians. If this is the case, then this is a policy that enables cyberbullying and cyberstalking.
On the Glycemic index page, User:Grayfell arrived, assessed my wording and the veracity of my cited sources and reverted my edit within 1 minute of it being posted. Grayfell's edit comment on the Glycemic index: Revision history reads, "Edit warring, overly promotional wording, one of those sources is far, far too spammy to be usable." Previously, I had heard of edit warring but I am not familiar with how an edit war is conducted. Citing it as an excuse to justify a revert is alarming.
I am not interested in playing silly games with other wikipedia users.
Yet warring with other users appears to be Grayfell's goal. I had previously noted, he has been engaging in this activity for over 18 months. The very next section on Grayfell's Talk below where I advised him of this post is titled Michael Wiseman. It too is telling. The thrust and counter thrust of blocking and reverting each others work might be fun for dedicated users but I have no interest in it. I feel that as users involved continue to seek out new targets to keep themselves entertained, a dangerous atmosphere that promotes cyberbullying and cyberstalking will inevitably develop. At 23:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)User:WriterWithNoName says
“Why not use your magical powers to suspend my account?”.
My answer is simple, grayfell is playing a game and WriterWithNoName is just another playtoy victim.
I have now looked at Grayfell's user page and found that he does have a connection with multi-level marketing and Utah as I suspected. Whether Grayfell has an existing negative association with the Usana company, the supplements industry, multi-level marketing, the state of Utah or whether he is so deeply attached to his edits that he cannot tolerate changes being made by others or whether he has become too wrapped up in the world of wikipeadia that he needs to revert other users edits to get some kind of satisfaction, he clearly has demonstrated a personal vested interest in his dealings with me. This interest has obscured his ability to maintain a detached impartiality in his dealings with the Usana page or with me. Furthermore, his comments have become personal as they have addressed me directly.
I fear that Grayfell has spent too long in the wikipedia culture without a compass. I expect he has lost sight of the fact that wikipedia was established as a source of information for the benefit of humanity. This is an unrestricted resource that children use. If grayfell wants to play games, then perhaps a massively multiplayer online role-playing game would be a more appropriate pursuit. Having him and others of his ilk preying unidentified users is a recipe for disaster.
It is time for grayfell to be blocked and leave the wikipedia community. He needs to take a better look at the world outside.
ORIGINAL POST TO THIS PAGE STARTS HERE:
Alleged Soapboxing VS Gatekeeping on the Usana Health Sciences page over the past 18 months
I would like Administrator intervention because I don't understand what have I done to justify a revert let alone threats of blocking? Furthermore, I reiterate my request of 5 May 2016 that Grayfell be blocked from editing the Usana Health Sciences page and if he is found to have engaged in anything more serious I ask that he be blocked entirely.
I am not the first user to have difficulty with Grayfell while editing the Usana Health Sciences page. Over the last 18 months, Grayfell has reverted every significant revision and I note that many of those users no longer appear active, so perhaps you could look into whether they have been erroneously blocked.
ON THIS OCCASION:
Grayfell asked for more context about the TGA. He deleted the context I originally provided, so I provided an alternative from multiple sources both primary and secondary. (The government agency itself and a journal article about the government agency. Surely a government regulator is a viable source but I provided the other source as well.)
I provided more material, up to date material from sources that were already listed on the page. (I went to the ConsumerLab website and found a 2016 survey the results of which I added with the 2011 materials.)
I deleted a report by a non-scientifically trained journalist (yes, I have looked up his bio on the Time website) who is the author, experimenter & only test subject of his own non-clinical non-peer reviewed trial because that report has the encyclopedic veracity of a unicorn.
I added a reference to the GI symbol program and outlined its veracity. In particular that it is a not-for-profit foundation run by the University of Sydney and the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. (In my original edit, I also included data from their testing.)
I also added similar details to the Glycemic Index page and elevated the GI Symbol Program to it's own section (given that it is a widely accepted Australian and now international standardised testing procedure). Rather than just revert the page, on this occasion, the entire section on the GI symbol has been removed by Grayfell.
Previously he has cited comments that cast individuals in an unreasonably positive light and reverted any changes that provide an opposing point of view. Grayfell has cited an article titled "Barry Minkow: All-American con man" to say that Minkow is a fruad-buster and pastor, even though the theme of the article makes the point that he is in fact a serial-swindler. The article establishes a long standing pattern of deception and distortion against companies over the decade in question. Grayfell only deleted this reference when this hypocrisy was pointed out on a post 5 May 2016.
WHEN IS SOUND JUDGEMENT OBSCURED BY VESTED INTEREST If we look at the edits made on the Glycemic index: Revision history, Grayfell would have barely had time to read the changes made to the page that I edited, let alone determine if the sources I provided are reputable in the one minute between my post and his revert. Grayfell stated on his talk page, "The edits to Glycemic index were sourced to the main gisymbol.com page (which doesn't discuss the symbol and is a primary source) and totalwellbeingdiet.com, which appears to be pure spam. " The gisymbol.com page is the non-profit health promotion foundation established by the University of Sydney, Diabetes Australia and JDRF Australia (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation). This is a reputable source. The totalwellbeingdiet.com is a program run by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, which is the peak research body in Australia. This too is a reputable source. Both of these would have been obvious and easy to confirm if Grayfell was acting with detached professionalism. Yet he was getting personal.
The article by John Cloud is about a non-clinical, non-peer reviewed trial with a sample size of one conducted by a non-scientifically trained journalist who is the author, experimenter & only test subject of this trial. As such he is the primary source, who has a financial interest in writing stories that engage readers on behalf of his employer who has a financial interest in publishing such stories. The article would make for a good movie along the lines of "Supersize Me" or "That Sugar Film" however it has no encyclopedic value.
According to guidelines as demonstrated by Grayfell's edits and edit comments, it is a primary source and primary sources are completely inappropriate as can be seen by his deletions and comments. Therefore by Grayfell's rationale references to the John Cloud article is also completely inappropriate. Yet, over the past 18 months, Grayfell has chosen to retain this article and has consistantly reverted attempts by myself and others to delete it or edit it to highlight its less than encylopedic nature.
MY VIEW: Granted, I may not have adhered to policy all of the time. (My interactions with Grayfell have made me aware of many policy areas I had never even considered might be relevant to my edits.) However, I have not acted vindictively or with malice. I have simply tried to expand the available knowledge base. I have always tried to delete elements that have limited veracity. Where unsubstantiated opinion has been offered, I have tried to provide an alternate point of view. I have listed things, because lists simplify understanding and seem to abound on Wikipedia.
I expect that this has become something personal for Grayfell. Stalking me around on other pages and deleting my work is not exactly impartial, particularly when my last edit was a simple edit to the Glycemic Index page. I feel that Grayfell has educated himself in the rules and procedures and placed himself in a position where he can erroneously revert any change made to the Usana page. It makes wonder if other users have experienced this problem in the past. It also makes me wonder what personal connection he has with Usana, supplements and the state of Utah. Perhaps a review of his edit history might shed some light on that.
CONCLUSION: I would like a sockpuppet check of the following user IP addresses: 172.58.41.35 and 113.172.26.48 in association with Grayfell. I would like Grayfell blocked from the USANA Health Sciences page if not Wikipedia as a whole. I will be notifying Grayfell of this post via his talk page.
Given that Wikipedia is the world's top online encyclopedia, I expect that USANA will be keen to see a fair and neutral point of view adopted for their entry.
Kind regards 122.148.118.18
PREVIOUSLY ON 5 MAY I WROTE: As both an informational and financial contributor I understand how important it is that this source be open and free. I understand that it is not possible to employ vast numbers of editors to fix problems and that it is necessary to have well meaning, community minded individuals to volunteer their time to make Wikipedia great. I acknowledge that I have made errors at times and am grateful that we have a wonderful community who have quickly picked them up.
Sadly, from time to time it becomes apparent that one of these users has their own cause to pursue: in particular, highly regarded User:Grayfell and his interest in the USANA Health Sciences page.
Since December 2014 User:Grayfell has consistently reverted changes made by various users. User:Grayfell has cited things such as "Previous version was more in line with WP:NPOV. Removing bit about sports certification, which would need WP:SECONDARY sources." "WP:NPOV" "Trivial. Needs more than just PR to be worth mentioning." and "What exactly does that have to do with USANA?" to justify these changes. These have resulted in responses such as "Opinions are not facts. If you are going to post opinion, post opposing opinion also."
Of particular note, User:Grayfell has cited an article by Fortune [Forbes] titled "Barry Minkow: All-American con man" (at 01:55, 5 December 2014). User:Grayfell has cited this article to reference that Minkow was a senior pastor at the Community Bible Church and executive of the Fraud Discovery Institute (FDI). (Without reading the title of the cite, one would assume from this that Minkow is a respectable individual.) Yet attempts to cite the same article to give an opposing point of view about Minkow are reverted. For example: The opening line of the article describes him as "entrepreneur, fraud fighter, pastor, movie actor – and serial swindler." The story goes on to say that Minkow has been convicted of embezzling $3 million from the above mentioned church and of using his position at the FDI to make false statements.
I suspect User:Grayfell has also incorrectly cited a story by "La Fracture" (http://ici.radio-canada.ca/emissions/la_facture/2008-2009/Reportage.asp?idDoc=75158). However my French is not good enough to be sure of this.
And then there was the "possible vandalism" by 113.172.26.48, a Mobile edit / Mobile web edit. This simply added "Which don't work" to the end of the product description. Perhaps just a coincidence that it should occur so soon after my revision.
I respectfully request that a review of the USANA Health Sciences page and its edit history be undertaken. I further suggest that User:Grayfell be blocked from making further edits to the page.
I will also be forwarding a copy of this to USANA for their information. Given that Wikipedia is the world's top online encyclopedia, I expect that USANA will be keen to see a fair and neutral point of view adopted for their entry.
Kind regards 122.148.118.18 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.118.18 (talk) 06:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Who's going to close this one? Awful report. Doctalk 06:45, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Seconded.
- As someone recently said, "Holy wall of text Batman!" Which was funny.
- Unlike this report.
- Actually, on a re-read, that closing paragraph has a possibly threatening undertone...?
- Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 10:49, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- The relevant article is at USANA Health Sciences. USANA has no direct control over their article, and forwarding it to them will probably do little more than confuse someone in their office for a few minutes. Beyond that, this is a content dispute. I agree, there's a bit of menace in that last paragraph, but not a legal threat as such. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 12:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- "A bit of menace;" just so. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- The relevant article is at USANA Health Sciences. USANA has no direct control over their article, and forwarding it to them will probably do little more than confuse someone in their office for a few minutes. Beyond that, this is a content dispute. I agree, there's a bit of menace in that last paragraph, but not a legal threat as such. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 12:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
(non-admin closure) IPs reported as blocked. BMK (talk) 01:13, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi all, I've been doing a lot of patrolling and have come across a very long list of school / shared IP addresses that may (or may not...) need blocks. I'm posting this here instead of at WP:AIV because I don't want to create a significant backlog there. I hope this doesn't come across as being disruptive, but I thought it'd be better to post this here than create a huge mess to clean up at AIV. Thanks. 2607:FB90:8023:4CDB:0:3B:FA1:101 (talk) 16:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Here is the list:
- UPDATE: All IP's have been blocked. Discussion may now be closed.
Abusing multiple accounts
Can a check-user take a look into a possible link between these accounts. IP's cannot open SPI cases (so I had to file it here...). These accounts were created less than a half-hour apart from one another, and they all have edited the same page with similar editing patters. Thanks. 172.58.41.35 (talk) 04:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- But Da1988347 and Angelgotti5 don't have the same editing pattern on John A. Gotti, on the contrary. 172, possibly you misread Da1988347's long edit summary here: they're actually removing the unsourced claim that Gotti helped the FBI. A little later, the pro-Gotti editor Angelgotti5, who claims to be Gotti's sister,[217] reinstates the statement about helping the FBI, as well as removes a lot of negative information. And while Dannyhrgl also removed negative stuff, their single edit isn't much in the style of Angelgotti5. So I don't really see any of them as related. Bishonentalk 05:12, 18 May 2016 (UTC).
- And the user Dannyhrgl, whilst perhaps being overly fond of his caps-lock, has made one edit, about nothing that touched on the edits of the other two (that is, nicknames). Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 05:21, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Cyberbullying and Cyberstalking
IP. please listen to what Grayfell tells you, and please stop filing ANI threads. (non-admin closure) Softlavender (talk) 12:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Holy wall of text... here, I have broken it down to a smaller section.
CYBERBULLYING AND CYBERSTALKING
I am disturbed at the prospect that Wikipedia would provide users with the tools to track other users across pages, no matter how experienced or trusted or how respected within the in crowd of wikipedians. If this is the case, then this is a policy that enables cyberbullying and cyberstalking.
On the Glycemic index page, User:Grayfell arrived, assessed my wording and the veracity of my cited sources and reverted my edit within 1 minute of it being posted. Grayfell's edit comment on the Glycemic index: Revision history reads, "Edit warring, overly promotional wording, one of those sources is far, far too spammy to be usable." Previously, I had heard of edit warring but I am not familiar with how an edit war is conducted. Citing it as an excuse to justify a revert is alarming.
I am not interested in playing silly games with other wikipedia users.
Yet warring with other users appears to be Grayfell's goal. I had previously noted, he has been engaging in this activity for over 18 months. The very next section on Grayfell's Talk below where I advised him of this post is titled Michael Wiseman. It too is telling. The thrust and counter thrust of blocking and reverting each others work might be fun for dedicated users but I have no interest in it. I feel that as users involved continue to seek out new targets to keep themselves entertained, a dangerous atmosphere that promotes cyberbullying and cyberstalking will inevitably develop. At 23:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)User:WriterWithNoName says
“Why not use your magical powers to suspend my account?”.
My answer is simple, grayfell is playing a game and WriterWithNoName is just another playtoy victim.
I have now looked at Grayfell's user page and found that he does have a connection with multi-level marketing and Utah as I suspected. Whether Grayfell has an existing negative association with the Usana company, the supplements industry, multi-level marketing, the state of Utah or whether he is so deeply attached to his edits that he cannot tolerate changes being made by others or whether he has become too wrapped up in the world of wikipeadia that he needs to revert other users edits to get some kind of satisfaction, he clearly has demonstrated a personal vested interest in his dealings with me. This interest has obscured his ability to maintain a detached impartiality in his dealings with the Usana page or with me. Furthermore, his comments have become personal as they have addressed me directly.
I fear that Grayfell has spent too long in the wikipedia culture without a compass. I expect he has lost sight of the fact that wikipedia was established as a source of information for the benefit of humanity. This is an unrestricted resource that children use. If grayfell wants to play games, then perhaps a massively multiplayer online role-playing game would be a more appropriate pursuit. Having him and others of his ilk preying unidentified users is a recipe for disaster.
It is time for grayfell to be blocked and leave the wikipedia community. He needs to take a better look at the world outside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.118.18 (talk) 05:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Can either of you provide specific diffs as to where the problem is? John from Idegon (talk) 05:47, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Comment: I don't see a single problem or infraction in Grayfell's editing, and he has explained his actions to you when queried. It looks like you are very very new to Wikipedia and have a lot to learn about how it works. You might want to register an account and receive mentoring if you want to stick around. I suggest this thread be closed with no action. Softlavender (talk) 05:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- See above here: [218]. RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Persistent abuse of categorization by IP
76.88.107.122 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been in a sustained effort to add certain categories to pages. While a number of their edits are moderately helpful, a great many of them constitute gross overcategorization and is highly disruptive. I had been trying to avoid requesting a block for this IP, instead trying to clean up after them and guide them to a better understanding of the principles of categorization (four notices over the last three weeks at User talk:76.88.107.122 § A couple of notes on categories), but they continue without a response to my four notices or even a change in the pattern of their edits. Several editors have been involved in reverting or otherwise cleaning up after this editor. I'm hoping a temporary block, of at least one week, will encourage this editor to check their talk page, take the time to review the guidelines, and hopefully discuss the issue with other editors.
This is likely the same user as 76.88.98.65 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), which was previously blocked for similar reasons, and also 24.165.80.219 (talk · contribs · WHOIS).
This is a repost of an earlier report which was archived without comment, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive922 § Persistent abuse of categorization by IP. Ibadibam (talk) 01:18, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
- I empathize with your plight. It's frustrating trying to reach a reasonably good faith editor but for some reason or other they do not respond. I agree that a short-term block may help in this case. For the record, do you think you can provide us some example diffs of them at their worst? -- Ϫ 12:34, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your response. The IP's edits mostly fall into the following areas, with examples:
- Holiday categories, especially Category:Holiday foods and its children
- Genre by franchise categories, added to pages and categories about genres or individual works (these categories are meant to be places only on pages about franchises)
- Categories concerning the supernatural – I've mostly left these alone
- Diff of Fiddler's Green, still on page
- Diff of Category:Wind creatures, still on page
- Fantasy and science fiction genre categories – sometimes ok, sometimes not
- War categories, especially subcategories of Category:Military equipment by war, or else members of Category:Wars used in the same way – I haven't touched these, as it's not my area of expertise and no one else has reverted any of them
- Diff of Pickelhaube, still on page
- Diff of M1879 Reichsrevolver, still on page
- Cuirassier, as reverted by Urselius and a week later by Buistr
- Dragoon, as reverted by Gaarmyvet and by me today
- Pirate categories, particularly Category:Pirates (a category for people, which the user confuses with Category:Piracy
- Adding categories of articles to their eponymous categories, an issue I'll admit is confusing even for experienced editors
- Diff of Category:A Tale of Two Cities, still on page
- Diff of Category:The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, still on page
- Category:Dracula, as reverted by DexDor and again by me
- Lastly, and this is not a categorization issue, the IP occasionally engages in gross overlinking
- There are also a number of literature-, history- and fashion-related edits, that don't appear to be problematic. But given the effort it's taking to follow this IP, I'm not sure the good edits are worth it. Ibadibam (talk) 21:26, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Ibadibam: It looks like they're back to the war categories which isn't my area of expertise either, but the large number of different articles they're editing are sure to catch the attention of some at the Military history Wikiproject where we can get some more eyes on this. I've left them a (yet another, I know) warning message, we should assume they are reading them and just choosing to be non-communicative. If they appear to be heeding the advice and improving at categorization then I myself can't justify a block just yet, but have no problem if another admin chooses to. The minor issue of not using edit summaries remains but I don't consider that block-worthy. We have the above diffs on record so for now let's just wait and see what else happens. -- Ϫ 08:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've left a comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#Adding war categories to weapon articles. Ibadibam (talk) 18:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Ibadibam: It looks like they're back to the war categories which isn't my area of expertise either, but the large number of different articles they're editing are sure to catch the attention of some at the Military history Wikiproject where we can get some more eyes on this. I've left them a (yet another, I know) warning message, we should assume they are reading them and just choosing to be non-communicative. If they appear to be heeding the advice and improving at categorization then I myself can't justify a block just yet, but have no problem if another admin chooses to. The minor issue of not using edit summaries remains but I don't consider that block-worthy. We have the above diffs on record so for now let's just wait and see what else happens. -- Ϫ 08:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for your response. The IP's edits mostly fall into the following areas, with examples:
User:Zefr
I would like to file a complaint about User:Zefr. I came across him (and I'm assuming the user is a male) when I created a protein stub (and that article, is irrelevant and off topic to the complaint I'm making, just pointing out how my interaction with him began). He immediately removed the sources I provided and called them nonsensical. So I reverted it back and encouraged him to use the talk page of the stub. Granted, the two sources he removed may not have been the best sources ever, but it's a bit difficult to find peer-reviewed sources on hemp protein, and I'm using what's around. The sources in question, was one from "Hemp Line Journal" from 1992 (you can read it here or here), which I'll admit I have yet to find it published in something like pubmed, but I'm looking around for it. So I added another one, and this was actually a peer-reviewed source from a journal, and he removed it too. His reason for removing it? "Please review WP:SCIRS for sourcing and WP:REFB for how to format your references." This is not constructive collaboration, it was a totally valid source, and I'm just beginning on a stub here, I don't have time to meticulously format every source I add, but I will do it later, and he's not being constructive by removing sources, and he's removing any attempt I'm making to improve a new article, doesn't matter if the source is or isn't reliable (personally I think they were all fine sources). So anyway, all that said and explained (and again, this is actually off topic to the complaint I'm making), I decided to look into this user's editing history and so on. What I found, was that his contribution history reveals that this account's sole purpose is basically removing sources and revert warring on various articles, a lot of them nutrition based. What's worse, when other Wikipedia editors complain on his talk page (like here), he just blanks the page (example). He constantly blanks his page. Another Wikipedia member complained about his revert warring and told him not to blank his page, here, but he did so anyway. The limited experience I've had so far with him on the stub I started, was not positive. When I reverted his removal of the sources, I told him to use the talk page to reach a consensus, but he didn't bother, and instead posted on my talk page and accused me based on my user name of being biased and not neutral, instead of discussing his removal of the sources I added in the Hemp protein article. This is not collaboration, he's basically dictating that sources he doesn't like, must be removed, and if you disagree, he throws links to Wikipedia policies and dubious accusations instead of discussing what's wrong with the sources on the article's talk page. I don't know why he's not using the article's talk page to discuss disagreements and reach a consensus, perhaps he doesn't have time to do that because he's totally focused on removing sources from all kinds of articles, but this is not good collaboration. Moreover, he has actually been blocked before from what I can see, back in 2011, perhaps that's why he's constantly blanking his talk page nowadays, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure many more Wikipedia editors have been complaining about his edit warring aside from the examples I provided. So, I personally suggest a block of this user, not sure how long it should be, but he needs to cool down with this behavior. HempFan (talk) 09:28, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- You really should discuss this on the talk page before bringing it here; you are basing this on a plain content dispute. Why haven't you started the talk page discussion? I'm pretty sure Zefr would have engaged there. Directing him to start it and then escalating immediately when he doesn't, isn't really the way to go about this. Make your case and if he doesn't respond, you can look to further measures. - FWIW, I agree that apart from the essential amino acid statement (which apparently got swept up in the removal), the material you added was rather far-fetched and dodgily sourced, and Zefr was correct in removing it.-- Elmidae(talk · contribs) 10:05, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- As I said, I told him to use the article's talk page, but he refused. I was at first going to post on his talk page, but then I noticed it was empty. After looking through his talk page's history, it appeared he's not interested in discussing much really, he just reverts and goes into edit war mode on various articles, hence this complaint, because I'm not the only one bothered by his behavior. Again, this complaint is not about the hemp protein article (I just provided background to my complaint). Valid concerns can be made about the sources I used, sure, and I'm also sure he has removed other crappy sources in other articles, but shouldn't he use one of those "not reliable source" tags instead of just removing it altogether? In any case, his edit warring is discouraging, and he's not being helpful with collaboration, at all. I'm not trying to escalate things, I'm just saying, this seems to be a problematic user and he's constantly blanking his talk page to remove the criticism he gets from time to time. HempFan (talk) 10:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, it's not in your remit to decide whether to talk to him or not; and the fact that he blanks messages is taken here to indicate that an editor has received and understood them. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 12:11, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've been responding to him when he's been posting on my talk page, but he shouldn't be edit warring like he does (not just on the article I started). How is blanking his talk page acceptable? Other Wikipedia editors who aren't paying attention and don't have time to go through every message that was left on his talk page, may easily get the impression that this not a problematic user, because his talk page is hiding the obviously problematic editing history of this user by blanking it. HempFan (talk) 15:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Blanking user talk pages is acceptable because user talk pages are mostly intended for user to user communication, and so we don't require editors to keep comments around. And discussions about article content should generally be held on article talk pages. There's normally no need to discuss content on user talk pages and plenty of people prefer not to so will give only minimal attention to content related comments on their talk pages. And you shouldn't really need to tell someone to take it to the talk page. There's no reason why you can't initiate discussion. If the person completely ignores the discussion and continues to revert, perhaps a complaint about them refusing to discuss may have merit. And as always, if the editor does respond but you two can't reach WP:Consensus, there are several avenues of WP:Dispute resolution. But as it stands, the talk page of Talk:Hemp protein remains a red link, so it's going to be quite difficult for you to claim you've tried to discuss this. Nil Einne (talk) 17:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Can we please forget about the hemp protein article? I didn't bring this complaint here to get assistance against his reverts on that article, I will take it on that article's talk page. The hemp protein article isn't the issue or topic here; I just used it as an example and now everyone is clearly focusing on that article instead of Zefr. I shouldn't have brought up that article. The point here isn't the hemp protein article, the point is that his behavior is persistent all across Wikiepdia, he does the same thing on every article, obsessively and very strictly removes sources. I understand that the reliability of the source in question is important, but not everything has to be super peer-reviewed (and even that wasn't good enough for him anyway on the hemp protein article). He also just reverted my edit here, on the banana article. Last I checked, USDA.gov was a perfectly reliable source (even though, some of its nutrition content is a bit flawed from time to time, but hey, no one is perfect, right?). Someone else reverted back my edit on the banana article, and told him to take it on the talk page, and what does he do? He reverted again and described my edit as "original research". His edit was subsequently reverted by that same member, who told Zefr once again to use the talk page. Clearly, this is not a constructive Wikipedia editor. I don't care how "experienced" he is or how well he has done his homework on Wikipedia's policy pages, because he doesn't actually add anything to the articles, all he does is remove sources. That's all I've seen from his edit history, and I've gone through several pages of his contribution log. It's all the same, continuous edit warring by removing and reverting sources and other content. HempFan (talk) 20:27, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Blanking user talk pages is acceptable because user talk pages are mostly intended for user to user communication, and so we don't require editors to keep comments around. And discussions about article content should generally be held on article talk pages. There's normally no need to discuss content on user talk pages and plenty of people prefer not to so will give only minimal attention to content related comments on their talk pages. And you shouldn't really need to tell someone to take it to the talk page. There's no reason why you can't initiate discussion. If the person completely ignores the discussion and continues to revert, perhaps a complaint about them refusing to discuss may have merit. And as always, if the editor does respond but you two can't reach WP:Consensus, there are several avenues of WP:Dispute resolution. But as it stands, the talk page of Talk:Hemp protein remains a red link, so it's going to be quite difficult for you to claim you've tried to discuss this. Nil Einne (talk) 17:49, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I've been responding to him when he's been posting on my talk page, but he shouldn't be edit warring like he does (not just on the article I started). How is blanking his talk page acceptable? Other Wikipedia editors who aren't paying attention and don't have time to go through every message that was left on his talk page, may easily get the impression that this not a problematic user, because his talk page is hiding the obviously problematic editing history of this user by blanking it. HempFan (talk) 15:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, it's not in your remit to decide whether to talk to him or not; and the fact that he blanks messages is taken here to indicate that an editor has received and understood them. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 12:11, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- As I said, I told him to use the article's talk page, but he refused. I was at first going to post on his talk page, but then I noticed it was empty. After looking through his talk page's history, it appeared he's not interested in discussing much really, he just reverts and goes into edit war mode on various articles, hence this complaint, because I'm not the only one bothered by his behavior. Again, this complaint is not about the hemp protein article (I just provided background to my complaint). Valid concerns can be made about the sources I used, sure, and I'm also sure he has removed other crappy sources in other articles, but shouldn't he use one of those "not reliable source" tags instead of just removing it altogether? In any case, his edit warring is discouraging, and he's not being helpful with collaboration, at all. I'm not trying to escalate things, I'm just saying, this seems to be a problematic user and he's constantly blanking his talk page to remove the criticism he gets from time to time. HempFan (talk) 10:12, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:HempFan per your username and the message on your Userpage and your contribs, your account is a WP:SPA (please read that essay) and you are here to advocate for cannabis. Please read WP:ADVOCACY. Please read WP:SOAPBOX. (that last one is policy). Now, when more experienced editors tell you how you are screwing up, stop what you are doing and listen to them, instead of having a cow and bringing garbage ANI cases. If you keep on the path you are on, you are going to leave Wikipedia angry or get thrown out of here. You need to try to check your advocacy at the login page and learn how to edit like a Wikipedian. OK? Jytdog (talk) 13:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm not a single purpose account, and I'm not here to promote cannabis, but my focus is hemp/cannabis, and I will mostly edit hemp related articles (I will also edit other stuff, like nutrition articles not related to cannabis, but my main area of interest right now is cannabis and I'm not really interested in editing other topics save for nutrition). I have not glorified hemp in any of my edits, so you can't say I'm promoting it. I'm also not screwing up. And why such a hostile tone anyway? I'm bringing a perfectly valid case here of a problematic member (again, disregard the background story of how me and him came across, "content dispute" is not the point; the point is that he's engaging in disruptive behavior that's really not collaborative, at all, and he's doing this on many, many articles, and many Wikipedians have been complaining on his talk page, but he keeps blanking it all the time). I suspect a bias on your part, that you're taking his side when he's obviously the one who's in the wrong here with his behavior. HempFan (talk) 15:36, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
The problem is it's difficult to see the behaviour you're referring to. As I said above, Talk:Hemp protein remains a red link. You can't complain about another editor not collaborating when you yourself have failed to do the basics. The most recently reverted comments on Zefr's talk page is this [219]. But there's no obvious problem with that since Zefr did join the discussion Talk:Banana#Storage and transport image. I see other comments from Zefr on that talk page which is a double whammy for the claim they aren't collaborating.
Most of the comments I see on Zefr's talk page before that are not the sort of thing where a reply may be necessarily. The next one I find is [220]. Responses were left on the editor's talk page User talk:Isacab0613#Coconut oil so again no problem. There are also comments (prior to this issue) at Talk:Coconut oil. So again another sign that they are collaborating.
Note as mentioned above, anyone who says their message shouldn't be deleted is likely to be the one at fault, since editors are explicitly allowed to delete the majority of messages on their talk pages. See WP:OWNTALK. Although the message you linked to didn't actually say the comment shouldn't be deleted, but simply that it would be evidence. Which is true but only to the extent that it's an indication the editor should be aware of our COI policy as they read the comment informing them. However even ignoring that, the message you linked to with a COI allegation sounds like threatening nonsense. Enforcing MEDRS compliance isn't indication of a COI.
So where you claim a problematic user who refuses to collaborate, I see a good editor who understand better than you how to collaborate and is working to keep junk out of our articles. The editors complaining seem to often have more fault.
BTW, seeing some of these comments reminds me of something I intended to mention earlier. You really need to take a read of WP:MEDRS and make sure you comply with it if you're going to add health related information. Actually you probably should read WP:RS in general since I'm not sure some of your sources will be acceptable even if there weren't medical claims being made.
- P.S. Did you actually read WP:SPA? Because what you're describing sounds a lot like an SPA. Also your name and editing does strongly suggest you are promoting, whether intended or not. You did make very bold medical claims with very poor sourcing. Nil Einne (talk) 18:37, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I only paraphrased what the study wrote, it wasn't about promotion, it's what the study said pretty much. Is there a way here to find out if certain sources are or aren't reliable enough? Because it seemed like a serious study to me, published in a journal that has been cited numerous times in various books on Google books. In any case, my complaint isn't about the Hemp protein article (I have to mention this every time now), it's about Zefr, and his behavior is in no way limited to the Hemp protein article and it's not only me who's bothered by his edit warring. And please don't accuse me of being an SPA, I'm just here to casually edit hemp articles and also some nutrition, I may expand to something else later, but right now my priority is hemp articles. My interest in hemp is its nutritional content primarily, hence the Hemp protein article. HempFan (talk) 20:27, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Instead of listening to people who have been around a long time and trying to learn, you are not listening and arguing that everything you are doing is fine and the problems are with others. This too is what advocates often do in Wikipedia. You will choose your own path. It is not leading to a happy place for you and other people's time is going to get sucked up along the way, but that is how things go here. We are just asking you to be more self-aware and take some time to learn how to edit Wikipedia better. That's all. Jytdog (talk) 02:52, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I only paraphrased what the study wrote, it wasn't about promotion, it's what the study said pretty much. Is there a way here to find out if certain sources are or aren't reliable enough? Because it seemed like a serious study to me, published in a journal that has been cited numerous times in various books on Google books. In any case, my complaint isn't about the Hemp protein article (I have to mention this every time now), it's about Zefr, and his behavior is in no way limited to the Hemp protein article and it's not only me who's bothered by his edit warring. And please don't accuse me of being an SPA, I'm just here to casually edit hemp articles and also some nutrition, I may expand to something else later, but right now my priority is hemp articles. My interest in hemp is its nutritional content primarily, hence the Hemp protein article. HempFan (talk) 20:27, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Ongoing civility and ownership problems at Obergefell v. Hodges
- Obergefell v. Hodges (edit talk history links watch logs)
- Antinoos69 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
We have an ongoing problem with WP:CIVILITY and WP:OWNERSHIP at Obergefell v. Hodges, a page on a vital US Supreme Court case regarding same-sex marriage. User Antinoos69 is bullying those who would edit an article which he has admittedly put a fair amount of work into, insulting them via the talk page and via edit summaries.
Civility
- "May I be so presumptuous as to interrupt you legal geniuses and venerable scholars long enough to present a couple sources and some brief comments?"
- "Wow. I really can't believe you are this dense and clueless. No, really."
- "your absurdity needs to stop."
- "Get over yourself." (This, I should note, was for restoring another editors MOS:LQ corrections.)
Ownership
- Calls for article to stick with his version
- Refers to attempts to edit the article to meet MOS:LQ as "trying to annoy me"
- His most recent five edits as of this posting 1 (2 3 4 5) are all undoing other users' attempts to get the article closer to guidelines MOS:LQ and WP:SEEALSO), variations from standards for which he has not only not achieved consensus, but received zero support for on the talk page.
Problems noted
- lack of civility and ownership noted by Neutrality (talk · contribs)
- ownership noted by Jonathunder (talk · contribs) (who noted them other times as well.)
I've deliberately kept the listing above to the past month, but looking at the talk page will show you that this is not a new situation; the user has called editors "ignoramus", saying "I can see you're being doggedly irrational and there's simply no talking with you", "You have clearly lost your mind and need to be stopped.", etc. The net effect is the creation of a toxic environment which discourages the involvement of other editors. --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:57, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- More "bullying". When does rudeness or incivility or whatever become bullying? Sorry, side note I suppose, but doesn't one have to be in a position of power to be a bully? Drmies (talk) 17:01, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- We could split on terminology; in physical world situations, I'd say that the willingness to use physical aggression is often what creates that power. In an online situation like this, it's the willingness to be uncivil. But if you wish to find a different term, I likely have no complaint. In any case, your attention is appreciated. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:43, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- At the very least Antinoos is guilty of edit warring, having made this edit three times in the past week. And there's fighting over a word, here and on a few more occasions. Antinoos, I'm beginning to think there is something to this. Drmies (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
- Antinoos is clearly aware of this discussion, not just because it was on his user page, but because he responded to a mention of it on the article's talk page (with "Was I meant to be impressed?") During that time, he has engaged in substantive editing on a couple of talk pages. Seemingly, whatever is to be done here will need be done without his input. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:45, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
- And, in the face of a lack of substantive response from this board, Antinoos continues to exert ownership, undoing yet another editor's attempt to make MOS:LQ corrections, in the wake of a Talk page discussion in which he's the only one advocating ignoring the LQ standards. --Nat Gertler (talk) 12:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- I shouldn't be surprised to see there's an open case about this. Antinoos refuses to respect our consensus-based guidelines and refuses even to acknowledge the local consensus to follow those guidelines. He's still at it. I don't know about bullying, but this is canonical disruptive behavior. As Antinoos appears to see nothing wrong with his approach, administrative intervention is appropriate to return him to reality. Rebbing 16:00, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ownership, incivility, and edit warring, stretching back months. The GA failure wasn't enough to persuade Antinoos to behave better; perhaps admin attention would. Lagrange613 19:19, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have unarchived this thread as Antinoos continues to sneak in changes to punctuation style (diff) that violate our clear consensus to follow the style guideline (which, by the way, isn't supposed to be a mere suggestion that requires a local decision on whether or not it's valid). Antinoos has characterized protests about this as "intimidation and harassment" and suggested that we "would do well to get over it."
I'm not asking for a specific remedy here. Antinoos' behavior on the article's talk page and his explicit refusal to follow consensus make me doubt a warning would be meaningful, but I also recognize that he is here to build an encyclopedia. The problem is balancing his talent against a his refusal to cooperate with others. Rebbing 17:04, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with Rebbing--having looked into this again--that Antinoos's behavior is disruptive. I do not know what to do about it. Someone could block for further LQ violations, if it is clear--as it is in this case--that the article in question is no exception to the regular MOS. But it sucks to have to block a good but hardheaded editorDrmies (talk) 02:50, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Assuming anyone wants reading material: See discussions on the talk page here, here, here, here, here and the failed Good Article review - which from my reading is almost entirely down to the ownership issues of Antinoos Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:04, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm particularly concerned by Antinoos' insistence that anyone who opposes him is making the article worse. A few hours ago, he had this to say about other editors removing redundant links—topics already discussed in the prose—from our long "See also" section: "I simply cannot understand the dogged and legalistic insistence with which some editors are hellbent on making readers' lives more difficult and less enlightened." There's nothing sanctionable in that comment alone, but he's needlessly making it difficult for others to improve this article. Rebbing 16:05, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I find the picture issues regarding the 1950's courthouse particularly ridiculous. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Only in death, you mean as in "why would someone edit war to keep those irrelevant pictures in"? Cause if yes, I'm with you. Drmies (talk) 00:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- I *like* pictures, but there is no situation where a picture of a courthouse from the 1950's helps a reader to understand the article on a ruling about gay marriage that happened to be made in the courthouse 60+ years later. Its completely nonsensical. The portrait gallery of the judges is bad enough - its not a biography of them. Knowing what Judge X looks like in no way helps understanding of the ruling. There would be a decent argument if for example it was a black judge writing a dissenting opinion on something race related, but that just isnt the case here. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- User:Only in death, you mean as in "why would someone edit war to keep those irrelevant pictures in"? Cause if yes, I'm with you. Drmies (talk) 00:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive editings by user:Tnguyen4321
I'm here to report following issues in the article Battle of Ia Drang:
- He's conducting disruptive editing/vandalism on the article without consensus with me and some other editors. When I raise the issue on the talk page,[221] he just keep ignoring it and continue his editing.
- I also want to explain about my use of various IPs, as it seems that some other Wikipedians have been misunderstood about this: At the beginning of the incident, I forgot to sign in, so my intentity is under IP form. Because I've already use IP for my comments on the talk page, I decide not to use my account to avoid misleading about my identification. However, what I unexpected is that each time I sign in with a device, my IP turned out to be a different one; I haven't realized this until several days ago. So my use of various IPs was totally unintentional, and in fact I've never done anything to conceal the fact that it belongs to the same person. I also regularly leave comments and explanations on the talk page about my view and editing. However, it seems that user:Tnguyen4321 is making use of this accident to slander that I'm conducting vandalism (violating WP:BULLY and WP:NPA). Theoretically, my editing with those IPs was always followed by explanations, so it hadn't even reached the threshold of the definition of WP:VANDAL.[222][223] In fact, I think user:Tnguyen4321 himself is the one who's conducting either disruptive editing or vandalism, because many of his editing came without explanation or consensus with other editors; and had the habit of regularly removing OR tags before reaching consensus[224] (example here [225]).
p/s: To avoid the further misunderstanding of my conduct as sock puppetry, I ensure that from now on this account will be my only identity that I use on the article. Please consider and sorry for the inconvenience. Dino nam (talk) 09:02, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for clarifying the circumstances surrounding your socking... By means of a confession to socking. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 09:17, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: even without a "improper purpose"? I think that if I had used my real account by then, it would have been misleading and thus constituting socking? Dino nam (talk) 09:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes improper. The misleading creation of an appearance of consensus. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 09:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: OK well. By the way no one have to worry about that anymore because I don't use those IPs at least for this article; you've got my word. I think we should rather concentrate on user:Tnguyen4321's conducts then. Thanks for provide me more info about sock puppetry. Dino nam (talk) 01:11, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes improper. The misleading creation of an appearance of consensus. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 09:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: even without a "improper purpose"? I think that if I had used my real account by then, it would have been misleading and thus constituting socking? Dino nam (talk) 09:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Dino nam is lying through his teeth! A wolf in sheep's clothing. Tnguyen4321 (talk) 13:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- OK then prove its a lie. Prove the link that I've shared above about your tag-removing habit is a lie! Dino nam (talk) 01:11, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Do I have to? It's so obvious! You underestimate other people's, especially admin's intelligence.Tnguyen4321 (talk) 13:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Disruptive edits by User:Richard allokendek
- The editor replaced Ghoul with a phrase in a foreign language [226].
- He moved Kema to Kema Districts, but there are no such districts, it's a district. Compare Kauditan, corrected by other editors, but not understood by the author. His texts should probably be verified before publishing.Xx236 (talk) 07:42, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Batu (village), Kokoleh I - disasters rather than pages. Kokoleh I used to be removed and recreated.Xx236 (talk) 07:43, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- over-wrote a redirect to redirect to a page he was creating. Appears not to have adequate English language skills to be a useful editor here: doesn't seem to know difference between singular and plural nouns. PamD 07:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, agree with Xx236 that they're disasters rather than pages. I just tagged the near incomprehensible Batu (village) for cleanup. Sample sentence:
"Batus original name is Wadli Itang named by dotu ruruwares came from tikala ares 1378 years old, wife ruruwares a name pingkan, she a first tread wadli itang."
Google translate, I presume. It's far worse now than when it was just a stub (and was tagged for speedy). If we ever block editors for not knowing English, now is the time. But I'll hold off blocking until I see if PamD's warning has any effect. (Though I'm not sure they know they have a talkpage. I seem to be saying this all over ANI, but it's a fact that new users don't necessarily know. If you think it's intuitive, no, it only becomes so with habit.) Bishonen talk 08:38, 18 May 2016 (UTC).
- The phrase he replaced "Ghoul" with appears to be an Indonesean language. It translated to "ghoul is a monster or evil spirit in Arabian mythology". His English appears to be sub-par, I'm pinging Aldnonymous on Meta as he shows up in the Embassy list as an Indonesean speaker, he's also an admin on the Indonesean Wikipedia and might recognize this user , based on interest and writing from his Wikipedia . KoshVorlon 15:57, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Personal attacks and outing attempts by an IP editor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jfeise#Who_is_Jfeise This is most likely the same person as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jfeise#comments_on_Victoria_Switzerland jfeise (talk) 07:04, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- In relation to WP:NLT threats in several sections of User talk:Jfeise, I indef'ed User:Msselnamaki and gave User:156.196.81.11 a 1-week block. Msselnamaki has a self-declared[227] COI for the article in question (Victoria University, Switzerland), adding extra credibility/directness to his threats, rathar than any chance of being read as a "be careful, someone might get upset" third-party warning. DMacks (talk) 07:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Likely the same person vandalizing my user page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/105.182.184.234jfeise (talk) 07:44, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, he seems to have switched from his broadband to his mobile. Blocked for one week a la that for User:156.196.81.11. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 07:57, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- An OS worked some magic on one of the edits as well (feel free to ask if others need deeper burial). Undoing NAC, as I need to update after that time and not sure the problem is actually solved yet. DMacks (talk) 08:10, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I also semi'ed Victoria University, Switzerland 1 week. This is not the first flare-up of IP disruption there. DMacks (talk) 08:13, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Another related IP edit on my user page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jfeise&diff=prev&oldid=720370029jfeise (talk) 13:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I have blocked IP 156.196.138.6 for one week. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I blocked User:105.39.65.226 per NLT on my userpage,[228] presumably part of the same sockfest. DMacks (talk) 16:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Page moves by Athishjenith
- Athishjenith (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
The user Athishjenith recently moved his user and user talk page, which should not have been done. An administrator should move Wikipedia:Athish Jenith to User:Athishjenith and Wikipedia talk:Athish Jenith to User talk:Athishjenith, suppressing redirects by unchecking the "Leave a redirect behind" box. Also, the same administrator should delete Wikipedia:K.M.Ravi Chandran, Wikipedia talk:K.M.Ravi Chandran, Athish Jenith, Talk:Athish Jenith, and User:Athish Jenith. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 02:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Why?Seen; multi-redirects. Suggest block of substantial if not indefinite duration, as this seems to be part of a campaign to have his autobiography in article space, which had previously resulted in a block. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 02:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC)- I have moved the user talk page back to its correct location and deleted the redirects and advised the user not to attempt any more page moves. — Diannaa (talk) 04:18, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a replay of the user's 2012 actions, presumably in the hope that it'll escape notice now. (Good job catching it, GeoffreyT2000.) Athish jenith was creation protected already in 2012, and he also repeatedly moved his userpage there in 2012, see the contribs. Admins can also see his deleted contribs, a rather longer list. I've creation protected a couple more of the versions he has created of his bio, AthishJenith and Athish Jenith. I really don't think he's here for any other purpose, or will be impressed by advice now, Diannaa, since he was blocked for 72 hours for these moves etc in 2012 and wasn't impressed by that. Time for indef, surely. Bishonentalk 10:41, 18 May 2016 (UTC).
- Support indef block. EdJohnston (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is a replay of the user's 2012 actions, presumably in the hope that it'll escape notice now. (Good job catching it, GeoffreyT2000.) Athish jenith was creation protected already in 2012, and he also repeatedly moved his userpage there in 2012, see the contribs. Admins can also see his deleted contribs, a rather longer list. I've creation protected a couple more of the versions he has created of his bio, AthishJenith and Athish Jenith. I really don't think he's here for any other purpose, or will be impressed by advice now, Diannaa, since he was blocked for 72 hours for these moves etc in 2012 and wasn't impressed by that. Time for indef, surely. Bishonentalk 10:41, 18 May 2016 (UTC).
User:Asadmoeen
Continues to add a site they appear to be associated with. Was also editing under 202.163.125.54 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:23, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note: I had created a report at WT:WPSPAM#trypophobia.co prior to seeing the report here. The accounts are adding two different URLs (to two different articles), and both URLs are tracing back to the same IP address. Appears a clear case of spam/site-promotion. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 17:55, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
User OptimusView
In the article Kyaram Sloyan user OptimusView removes POV tag[229][230] despite there is no any consensus that the neutrality of article is OK. Discussion still ongoing on a talk. I think such edits are against WP:Disrupt. Please return the tag back and take administrative measures in relation to this user who was already warned by me, but preferred to continue removing the tag without any consensus. --Interfase (talk) 19:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- The article represents all the points of view, including Azerbaijani accusations. Today another user even added the Azerbaijani position to the lead section and removed the POV tag as baseless. But Interfase (who was blocked twice for editwarrings [231]) adds it back claiming the article is still not neutral, he calls sources like The Sunday Times, Le Monde, Regnum, etc. yellow journalism and refuses to ask for another third-opinion comment. OptimusView (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- This just might be a classic case of WP:BOOMERANG. Interfase is a topic-banned user that has been violating his topic ban for quite some time now. Consistent edit-warring and POV pushing appears to be the theme. Interfase has been edit-warring over several users at Kyaram Sloyan to maintain a POV tag ([232][233][234][235]) and there's no sense of compromise when it comes to his beliefs. He is the sole user at that article who deems it necessary to have the POV tag placed. Tiptoethrutheminefield's good faith efforts at the article to make it as neutral as possible (going as far as to place the Azerbaijani perspective in the lead) has been subjugated to constant edit-warring and reluctance by Interfase to accept the consensus against him. Some of Interfase's additions are complete POV OR and the user even tries to maintain its inclusion through edit-warring. These two particular edits ([236][237]) which I came across recently are disruptive and in complete violation of his topic ban. He did not explain about this addition on the talk page before making his revert as his topic ban requires. Above all, the claim is completely OR, and is entirely untrue and Interfase even tries to maintain its inclusion through edit-warring. This needs to stop. Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:44, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Support boomerang. Rabid nationalists have no place on Wikipedia.142.105.159.60 (talk) 01:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- This just might be a classic case of WP:BOOMERANG. Interfase is a topic-banned user that has been violating his topic ban for quite some time now. Consistent edit-warring and POV pushing appears to be the theme. Interfase has been edit-warring over several users at Kyaram Sloyan to maintain a POV tag ([232][233][234][235]) and there's no sense of compromise when it comes to his beliefs. He is the sole user at that article who deems it necessary to have the POV tag placed. Tiptoethrutheminefield's good faith efforts at the article to make it as neutral as possible (going as far as to place the Azerbaijani perspective in the lead) has been subjugated to constant edit-warring and reluctance by Interfase to accept the consensus against him. Some of Interfase's additions are complete POV OR and the user even tries to maintain its inclusion through edit-warring. These two particular edits ([236][237]) which I came across recently are disruptive and in complete violation of his topic ban. He did not explain about this addition on the talk page before making his revert as his topic ban requires. Above all, the claim is completely OR, and is entirely untrue and Interfase even tries to maintain its inclusion through edit-warring. This needs to stop. Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:44, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Actually there are several proArmenian users who POVpush the article with non-neutral information. Despite there is no any serious reliable sources about beheading (accusitions of Azerbaijan' army (UN member by the way) are very serious accusitions to present it as a fact replying just on media). Also I don't think that reporters of The Sunday Times, Le Monde, Regnum saw the beheading scenes themselves to reply these media. They just shared that info that was taken from social networks and shared by Armenian sources. Of course it makes them "yellow journalism". This issue was not covered by serious media (like BBC or CNN e.g.) and there is no any condemnations of Azerbaijan by serious organisation (UN e.g.). I think untill neutrality of the article is not corrected (frase such "beheaded" should be replaced with "reportedly beheaded") the "POV" tag should be in place and should not be removed by force. I will not repeat my mistake and will not make a reverts, but the neutrality of the article should be corrected. P.S. Claims that Ramil Safarov is "National hero of Azerbaijan" in entirely untrue. Web-site safarov.org is not reliable source but just some fan site. Show the text of order in official source or president's website (like this one about ordering Mubariz Ibrahimov). --Interfase (talk) 20:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- And how do you explain your violations of your topic bans and restrictions? --Tarage (talk) 21:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- The full topic ban has been rescinded, but under continuing editing restrictions Interfase is required to make a talk page explanation for any revert he makes, and do it before making the actual revert. I think that just making a general post on the talk page, or initiating a discussion, or continuing an active discussion, is not really a revert edit explanation; surely the post made has to cite the actual edit that is about to be made and explain why that specific revert is needed. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
There is no justification for a mass use of the word "reportedly" to characterize the events covered in this article. Where opinions or statements have been expressed in only one source, such as the identification of one of the soldiers posing with the severed head, those have been described in the article using wording like "according to". However, almost all the sources are in agreement: Sloyan was killed during the conflict, his body was returned minus its head, his head was returned later, photos showing various Azerbaijani soldiers posing with the severed head of an Armenian soldier were posted online, video material of a crowd of Azeri-speaking civilians gathered around an individual who them produces a severed head from a bag was also posted online, and this severed head was that of Sloyan. The few sources that disagree are Azerbaijan-based sources (they include one official statement, supporting the lede wording that Azerbaijan has denied the incident happened). Actually there seem to be very few such Azerbaijani sources, the article has just two and Interfase has failed to provide any more. I think that the content in all of the sources cited have been expressed neutrally and accurately and in proportion. Interfase's objections really have no substance behind them, and his solution, to place the word "reportedly" in front of every item of content, cannot seriously be followed. There is not a case to be made for the article to remain pov tagged because there is not a problem that needs correcting. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- The information about "his body was returned minus its head, his head was returned later" seems very dubious. The body was returned with the presence of international observers from Red Cross. If it was without head, there should be some reaction or strongly condemnations of Azerbaijan, UN member. The photos and videos taken from social networks with dubious background may also be falsicicated (off-line Azeri speech as well). Neither reliable experts nor serious media paid an attention on them. All these make us not to present such kind of information as a fact but just reports and accusitions on alleged actions. --Interfase (talk) 04:33, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- And in Azerbaijan people regularly carry around severed heads in plastic bags, just in case one is required for a photo shoot or a public presentation. There is no content in the article that says his body was returned with the presence of international observers from Red Cross. The speed of the burial suggests his headless body was recovered from the battlefield by Armenian forces as they regained territory lost during the initial assault. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC) Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:36, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- First of all, there is no any evidence that the video was taken in Azerbaijan. Secondly, Armenian side said that Sloyan's head, as they claimed, was handed over with the presence of observers from Red Cross[238]. As I said if it was really so, there would be serious sensation and condemnations of Azerbaijan by serious organisations. But we see nothing that makes us not to use that info as a fact. --Interfase (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- The only organization that participated in the process of transmission, was Red Cross, which, according to the source you provided "has no right to comment publicly on the circumstances of the incidents in the course of military operations". It was a serious sensation as The Open Society Institute, The Sunday Times and others write about it. And the interim public report of the Human Right's defender (ombudsman) of NKR confirms that at the European Ombudsman Institute Official Site. OptimusView (talk) 19:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- Ombudsman of NKR is not reliable and neutral source. The article of Marianna Grigoryan in eurasianet.org also by the way. The Sunday Times' report was based on the info from social networks (dubious and not reliable as its reporters were no there). Still no any evidence of "beheading", no any serious sensation. Just claims and accusitions without real facts and consequences for Azerbaijan. So, if there is no any evidence, why should we turn our project to yellow journalism? --Interfase (talk) 19:48, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- The only organization that participated in the process of transmission, was Red Cross, which, according to the source you provided "has no right to comment publicly on the circumstances of the incidents in the course of military operations". It was a serious sensation as The Open Society Institute, The Sunday Times and others write about it. And the interim public report of the Human Right's defender (ombudsman) of NKR confirms that at the European Ombudsman Institute Official Site. OptimusView (talk) 19:16, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- First of all, there is no any evidence that the video was taken in Azerbaijan. Secondly, Armenian side said that Sloyan's head, as they claimed, was handed over with the presence of observers from Red Cross[238]. As I said if it was really so, there would be serious sensation and condemnations of Azerbaijan by serious organisations. But we see nothing that makes us not to use that info as a fact. --Interfase (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- And in Azerbaijan people regularly carry around severed heads in plastic bags, just in case one is required for a photo shoot or a public presentation. There is no content in the article that says his body was returned with the presence of international observers from Red Cross. The speed of the burial suggests his headless body was recovered from the battlefield by Armenian forces as they regained territory lost during the initial assault. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC) Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:36, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
CEOBryantR
(non-admin closure) With nothing to edit, nothing to do to CEOBryantR, but his editing does bear watching for COI and Paid editing. BMK (talk) 01:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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User talk:CEOBryantR also needs to be blocked as it is apparently just a PR firm used to handle Dre Rich Kidd. It contravenes Wikipedia:Single-purpose account, Wikipedia:Advertising, Wikipedia:Ownership of content--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Dre Rich Kidd is clearly heading for deletion, which will give CEOBryantR nothing to edit. BMK (talk) 21:00, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Here is the editor's statement that he works for a major record label and that his job is to get their artists (including Dre Rich Kidd) onto Wikipedia: [239] Here is his request to protect the page showing ownership and his connection to the performer [240] Has removed the AFD notice [241], the entire AFD [242], and maintenance templates [243]Meters (talk) 21:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Basically Hoax Article?
This is a discussion for AFD not ANI. Blackmane (talk) 02:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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not sure if right place for this..there's a RfC going on here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_supremacy wherein people are literally arguing that white supremacy is racist whereas black supremacy is not racist...I took a look at the topic itself though...I think it is basically made-up and perhaps largely contributed to by some of the people making the ridiculous arguments in the RfC...if search google news for "black supremacy" absolutely nothing comes up...if search google web get a few superficial uses of the term....is this just a matter for RfD? If so, I'll have to look into how to do that...68.48.241.158 (talk) 17:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Its a content dispute... Looking at the RfC it seems to have meaningful discussion in progress. What exactly is it you want done? It doesn't seem to be a hoax to me... --Cameron11598(Talk) 19:43, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- yes, but it appears the article shouldn't exist at all (see the final few posts in the RfC related to this)..someone appears to have gathered a few groups together in one article, decided on their own to label these groups "black supremacism" and created a Wikipedia article...68.48.241.158 (talk) 19:51, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like there is good discussion going on on the talk page there, which is the way that issues like this should be handled. It's definitely not a hoax article, and the discussion on the page should be used to better flush out how the language on the page should read. I don't think there is any need for admin activity on this at this time, the community is doing exactly what SHOULD be done, talking it out civilly on the talk page. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC) (replacing comment that was accidently deleted)
- yes, but it appears the article shouldn't exist at all (see the final few posts in the RfC related to this)..someone appears to have gathered a few groups together in one article, decided on their own to label these groups "black supremacism" and created a Wikipedia article...68.48.241.158 (talk) 19:51, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- no, no I agree as far as the content dispute...but in engaging in that I came to realize that perhaps the article shouldn't even exist at all (and was created totally against policy)!! I thought if an Admin saw this they might be able to handle that more quickly, competently as I've never done a RfD..68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- That is not going to happen. Nobody seriously disputes the the concept of black supremacy exists—even if it arguably only exists as a meme among paranoid white people rather than an actual movement—and we don't delete articles on grounds of being badly written. We certainly don't delete one of Wikipedia's earliest articles, dating back to Larry Sanger's time, out-of-process without a deletion discussion following a request at ANI. ‑ Iridescent 20:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- but the article creates its own concept of "black supremacy" by just putting a bunch of groups together and arbitrarily deciding to label these particular groups "black supremacy"...there's no sourcing for this whatsoever...It's pure original research/original opinion ideas!! See what I mean?68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then discuss this on the talk page, NOT here. ANI isn't for content disputes, as stated earlier. This is an issue that the page needs to be better cited or cleaned up, not an issue for ANI. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:31, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- see, I'm not seeing this as a content dispute but as an article that itself exists clearly against policy..so thought might be worth admin attention, even speedy deletion type thing...I only referenced the content dispute to explain how I became aware of this...68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well two of the best things about wikipedia are WP:IAR and WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY SO if it makes the community/project better we can ignore a specific policy in favor of bettering the project. As far as I can tell the article has a valid topic worth being noted. We don't get rid of something because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. If you want to get rid of the article you are going to need to do an AfD and develop consensus that it needs to go. No editor or admin (At least I don't think they would) delete it against consensus or while there is ongoing meaningful discussion as to the article's existence, except under a few extreme circumstances. --Cameron11598 (Talk) 20:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- see, I'm not seeing this as a content dispute but as an article that itself exists clearly against policy..so thought might be worth admin attention, even speedy deletion type thing...I only referenced the content dispute to explain how I became aware of this...68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Then discuss this on the talk page, NOT here. ANI isn't for content disputes, as stated earlier. This is an issue that the page needs to be better cited or cleaned up, not an issue for ANI. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:31, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- but the article creates its own concept of "black supremacy" by just putting a bunch of groups together and arbitrarily deciding to label these particular groups "black supremacy"...there's no sourcing for this whatsoever...It's pure original research/original opinion ideas!! See what I mean?68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:30, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- That is not going to happen. Nobody seriously disputes the the concept of black supremacy exists—even if it arguably only exists as a meme among paranoid white people rather than an actual movement—and we don't delete articles on grounds of being badly written. We certainly don't delete one of Wikipedia's earliest articles, dating back to Larry Sanger's time, out-of-process without a deletion discussion following a request at ANI. ‑ Iridescent 20:25, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
I say just rename the article black racism. While Black supremacy or structural racism might not be a thing (except in Zimbabwe), there are clearly groups that thing Blacks are superior and hate other. Read, for instance, Elijah Muhammads Message to the Black man in America and its chapter on whites.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Getting way out of ANI's remit now, but "supremacy" and "racism" aren't synonyms. There are plenty of attitudes that don't imply inferiority but are clearly racist ("Asians are harder workers" and so forth). ‑ Iridescent 20:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- The thing is supremacy can be an observed structure, such as, for instance, white supremacy in the US South in the 1920s. Racism can be an attitude or ideology. Elijah Muhammad and others created a belief system that believed blacks were superior. You could call that black supremacy, but that wouldn't be supremacy as in blacks can observationally be proven to be dominant in society or are systematically violating other ethnic groups rights. The only place were that could be said to happen is in Zimbabwe. (Of course, different black groups has fought and discriminated against each other in places like Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, and you might include the killing of Arab during the Zanzibar "revolution", but that is not what we are talking about here.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 20:53, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
We have ourselves a situation where someone has decided on their own that several different groups should be known as "black supremcism," and created a Wikipedia article (that is disasterously put together) based on their arbitrary belief...68.48.241.158 (talk) 20:46, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'd suggest at this point it's time to put down the stick and walk away. This is NOT the venue for the discussion of deletiing the page. If you feel this page should be deleted, have a look at WP:AFD and the instructions on how to do so there. If there is information in the article that shouldn't be there you feel, discuss it on the talk page. NOTHING is going to be done on ANI however, please understand that. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Okay, perhaps I'll see if it's worth doing a AfD...the reason I asked is the article itself seems to be against policy..that is, it's about a topic that doesn't seem to exist in the real world (and that can be cited to sources as to even existing) but seemed to be invented for the sake of creating a Wikipedia article...the content question that is being discussed in the page is entirely separate issue...68.48.241.158 (talk) 01:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Please revoke talkpage access
User is not being insulting or anything like that--if you don't like wasting your time on his user page, don't go there. Then again, you might learn a dance or two if you stick around. Drmies (talk) 03:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Please can you revoke the talkpage access of User:LeonRaper? He was blocked for only being here to self-promote, and no evidence of competency, and all he's done since being blocked is spout his same promotional arguments. He doesn't understand that he fails WP:GNG, and shows no evidence of ever stopping his complaints unless his talkpage access is revoked. Frankly, editors have wasted too much time on him already. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- OPPOSE: this elderly individual is firm in his belief that he is notable (it is an erroneous belief in regards to Wikipedia notability) but he only keeps restating this belief because others keep responding and telling him that he's not....if people stop, he'll stop...I just very recently tried to change the topic to see if he'd be interested in editing other articles, like "swing dancing"...see how that goes...no need to revoke his talk page...he may grow to understand, and make an unblock request to work on other articles...68.48.241.158 (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- He is not being disruptive, he is talking. If you don't want it popping up on your watchlist, take his page off your watchlist. Please allow editors to determine when they have spent to much time and then they can walk away. -- GB fan 13:18, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Just leaving his talkpage, and him, alone is a much better solution to the problem, if there even is a problem. Thomas.W talk 14:09, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose it should be a last resort to remove talk page access from a blocked user. As was said earlier, if you don't like the ramblings don't stay around and listen. He's not bothering anyone other than those reading his page. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose I understand where Joseph2302 is coming from. I, too, was becoming annoyed that LeonRaper doesn't seem to be able or want to get what's being told him. I caught myself in the middle of a response to him and deleted it without posting, simply removing his talk page from my watchlist. I think that's the best course for everyone. If LeonRaper wants to continue to participate in a constructive way, all the information he needs is there on his talk page, he just has to choose to follow it. In the meantime, just let him alone. He's indef blocked, and I doubt very much that any admin is going to unblock him once they look at the circumstances surrounding the block, and at LeonRaper's comments. Unless he starts being disruptive in some way, removing his talk page access doesn't seem like a necessary step. BMK (talk) 18:22, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose for now, but only if Raper does not simply start posting personal attacks against other editors or pointless rants against Wikipedia. I am frustrated like all of the others who have tried to help Raper. I am not only frustrated with him because he seems unwilling to or is incapable of understanding what other editors are posting, but also in myself because I can't figure out a way to explain things to him any better. I've tried rephrasing things in so many different ways that I have lost count. I also have tried changing the topic quite few times by pointing out there are many ways to contribute to Wikipedia as suggested above, but I have not been very successful. Perhaps 68.48.241.158 will have better luck. The simple fact is that Raper is a SPA (not necessarily a bad thing as I tried to explain to him 13 days ago) whose only goal seems to be to have "my webpage" (his choice of wording) added to Wikipedia. We can all speculate on why that is the case and I have some ideas, but I don't see him shifting gears and simply go on editing other articles. He feels he's "mega notable" in the dance world which he equates to Wikipedia notability. He also seems to think that Wikipedia is some sort of publishing house with in-house editors and reviewers and all he needs is for his sources to be given to the right people. I don't think that any of that is going to change regardless of how many times he's told otherwise, so maybe it's time to honor his request and avoid further antagonizing things any more by bringing it up. Maybe an accelerated version of WP:SO can be used here instead of waiting six-months. Raper seems to feel the need to "talk" with someone in a position of authority so perhaps we should let the admin who blocked him (pinging @Drmies:) have a go at trying one last time to explain things. Maybe "Hi I am the administrator who blocked you. Here is why I blocked you. Here are the conditions you need to agree to be unblocked. Do you agree to these conditions on the understanding that you will be blocked again if you violate them in any way?" or something like that. The conditions could be something like "Complete the Wikipedia Adventure", "Make ten constructive edits in existing Wikipedia articles", "Agree to not personally create a new article about yourself per WP:COI", Agree to not add any content about yourself to any existing without first discussing it on the article's talk page per WP:COI", etc. If Raper is given clear conditions on what he needs to agree to in order to be unblocked and then he still continues on his present course, then he will clearly not be here for anything other than himself and can be left alone. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: I am not sure he would be likely to make 10 good edits. Based on some comments like this
"can't remember what Wikipedia page it was, but I sent in a correction to how to do St. Louis Shag. My definition is absolutely correct. I learned it from Kenny Wetzel in 1974 after I saw Mike Faile from St. Louis doing it in the 1974 World Swing Dance Championships which I was in."
[244] he thinks what he knows and because he knows it is sufficient rather than citing a reliable source. I do not think he has any better grasp of the need for reliable sources than he does of notability and we would soon be here for that. JbhTalk 01:32, 20 May 2016 (UTC)- I understand that is a possibility, but this could be his WP:LASTCHANCE. 10 good edits would not be a something which is impossible to achieve. A good edit could be something as simple as a spelling correction and then leaving an appropriate edit sum, so it should be something fairly easy to accomplish if he has the desire to do so. If he makes an inappropriate edit, it can be reverted. If he continues to make bad edits and refuse to listen, then he can be blocked again. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am not opposed to the attempt particularly if he were willing to accept some informal mentoring from an editor he respects. I just have not seen any indication he is willing to be educated in how Wikipedia works. I think he still believes we are some publishing service and he is a customer owed service. Maybe it is stubornness, maybe he is only in it for self-promotion, maybe there are CIR issues. Oh well... whatever it is it is moot unless he files an unblock request.
It might be worthwhile to talk him through how to request an unblock since the need to request one may have been lost in all of the post-block discussions. Not something I am willing to do in this case but I thought it worth mentioning if you or someone else wants to step into the breach. JbhTalk 01:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- I am not opposed to the attempt particularly if he were willing to accept some informal mentoring from an editor he respects. I just have not seen any indication he is willing to be educated in how Wikipedia works. I think he still believes we are some publishing service and he is a customer owed service. Maybe it is stubornness, maybe he is only in it for self-promotion, maybe there are CIR issues. Oh well... whatever it is it is moot unless he files an unblock request.
- I understand that is a possibility, but this could be his WP:LASTCHANCE. 10 good edits would not be a something which is impossible to achieve. A good edit could be something as simple as a spelling correction and then leaving an appropriate edit sum, so it should be something fairly easy to accomplish if he has the desire to do so. If he makes an inappropriate edit, it can be reverted. If he continues to make bad edits and refuse to listen, then he can be blocked again. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Marchjuly: I am not sure he would be likely to make 10 good edits. Based on some comments like this
- Meh Blocked users are only suposed to use their talk page to apeal their block. and he is not doing that. There is something to be said for letting him wind down on his own but I do not think he is suddenly going to come to understand the points people have been trying to make for days or weeks. That said he is doing no harm where he is and there is no need to remove access just for the sake of process. JbhTalk 01:19, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose How editors choose to use their time, whether wastefully or productively, is up to them. Like MarchJuly, I've also struggled to phrase things in a way that will help him understand. However, they are not doing it from any malice or disruption. Although, as Jbhunley says, talk pages are only for appealing blocks, after the blocking, it's not much good appealing a block without understanding the rationale behind the block. Blackmane (talk) 02:28, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Extra eyes on Yuri Kochiyama
Today's Google Doodle has brought lots of attention to the Yuri Kochiyama article. It's already been semi-protected due to blatant vandalism, but there is currently a dispute (which I'm about to disengage myself from) regarding the language used to described Kochiyama's activism (e.g., describing her as non-black supporter of Black separatism vs Black nationalism. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:16, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Single-purpose account circumventing block
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The user Mikequfv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is currently blocked for disruptive editing. Today, with the block still active, he is doing the same style of disruptive editing and vandalizing climate charts with erroneous numbers,[245] from an IP address. 2001:569:BDD4:2700:F1D2:5191:2484:1E06 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). (Every edit is a good example of past behaviour linking him to this IP.) Vandalism report from yesterday: [246]. (The reason given for the block was different than the reason reported.) Air.light (talk) 21:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Blocked the IP temporarily, extended Mikequfv's block to indef. ‑Scottywong soliloquize _ 00:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Baseball bugs and FPAS harassing me
blocked for 1 month. If he returns, we'll block on sight. --Jayron32 03:32, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
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Today, I received a malicious message on Facebook signed by two people, one of them saying that he's baseball bugs, and the other saying that he's FPAS. I don't know how they found out my real identity, but anyways the message contained a legal threat because of my on-wiki activity. Can something be done about this, cuz I'm really scared of returning to editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.171.213.174 (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Even in the vanishingly unlikely event that this is true (BB and FPAS live on opposite sides of the world) Facebook is not a part of Wikipedia. If you've received an abusive message on Facebook, report it to their abuse department. ‑ Iridescent 21:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Iridescent: This is an obvious proxy IP Ref. Desk troll that I've reported to WP:AIV. They'll be blocked shortly. 2607:FB90:8038:780A:0:25:9B1B:1401 (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is at least the third time in recent memory that a ref-desk troll has posted lies about being harassed off-wiki. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:29, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Wow... it's sad that they have nothing else to do with their life... 2607:FB90:8038:780A:0:25:9B1B:1401 (talk) 22:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- No big deal, just another gnat to swat. In this case, it's only the one entry, so the admins might not bother blocking it. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- The troll made a similar complaint about FPAS on about April 15, and as 74.73.255.60 (talk·contribs)on May 8 about Jayron32 allegedly telephoning him.[247] Those are admins. He's probably dragging me into it because of a revert war that he was involved with on the ref desk talk page a day or two ago. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 23:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, everyone needs a hobby. ... I never said it was a good one. HalfShadow 23:35, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- The April 15 incident was from 108.29.169.88 (talk · contribs), since rev-del'd as I think it included a false claim of a threat of violence from an admin. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:53, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, everyone needs a hobby. ... I never said it was a good one. HalfShadow 23:35, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- The troll made a similar complaint about FPAS on about April 15, and as 74.73.255.60 (talk·contribs)on May 8 about Jayron32 allegedly telephoning him.[247] Those are admins. He's probably dragging me into it because of a revert war that he was involved with on the ref desk talk page a day or two ago. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 23:03, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- No big deal, just another gnat to swat. In this case, it's only the one entry, so the admins might not bother blocking it. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Wow... it's sad that they have nothing else to do with their life... 2607:FB90:8038:780A:0:25:9B1B:1401 (talk) 22:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- This is at least the third time in recent memory that a ref-desk troll has posted lies about being harassed off-wiki. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 22:29, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Iridescent: This is an obvious proxy IP Ref. Desk troll that I've reported to WP:AIV. They'll be blocked shortly. 2607:FB90:8038:780A:0:25:9B1B:1401 (talk) 21:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Harassment by Hijiri88
I have gone quite disgusted with the conduct of the above named editor, User:Hijiri88, including most recently at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion#Possible wikia site(s) on religious devotions or practices/prayers/calendars/etc.. Records will show that his first recent edits to the talk page of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity also included disparaging remarks to the set up of those pages. Also, in recent history, he has made similar grossly irrelevant and counterproductive aspersions regarding my motivations elsewhere. Given his recently demonstrated "refusal to let go" (as one of the closing admins described it) regarding his recent Arbitration clarification and amendment request, now to be found here, and his other recent activity, including as well as his frankly repulsive, repeated requests and comments regarding others impugning their activities, including me at the thread first linked to, at AlbinoFerret in the AE request, etc., and his own violation of the ban there, I think that the time has come to perhaps again review whether this editor is capable of working in this system. I had mentioned in the Arb case that I was definitely of the impression that we were proceeding to the point of a site ban of him, and, although I am not in a position to judge whether these recent events are sufficient (and I myself doubt they are) I think it worth the time and effort of others to try to get through to this individual that, whatever his own tendencies to place absolute credibility in whatever his own opinion at the time indicates to him at any given time, the policies and guidelines of the project, including those guidelines regarding conduct, apply to him, and he violates them at his own risk. John Carter (talk) 22:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. I am unaware if a ban from his user talk page includes notices of discussions of this type, and do not want to risk being blocked, and, on that basis, am not leaving one there, although I have added a link to his page here, which should ping him at least. I would however request that any individual seeing this leave the message, which, under the circumstances, I am not sure I am in a position to do. John Carter (talk) 22:35, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Considering you do have a talk page ban and the discussion which lead to that had a fair amount of support for an i-ban, I'm not sure the wisdom of this ANI, but I guess it's your choice. Nil Einne (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Under the circumstances, I believe a review of User:Hijiri88's comments on the page first linked to would provide even more support for an i-ban. I think his comments on that page show that he has used it to, basically, do little if anything other than, disparage, cast aspersions, or rush to prejudicial judgment regarding my actions in that matter. John Carter (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- Considering you do have a talk page ban and the discussion which lead to that had a fair amount of support for an i-ban, I'm not sure the wisdom of this ANI, but I guess it's your choice. Nil Einne (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
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- Ultimately, while I have no desire to look in more detail, all I've seen so far looks to be the same as before: two editors who can't seem to resist sniping at each other to the detriment of wikipedia. While Hijiri88 has IMO made clear cut mistakes before in their dealings with you as I highlighted in the previous thread, in both cases neither of you were that far from each other. So really my question to you is, do you really want to force us to force you two to separate (i.e. an i-ban), or worse (frankly blocking both is always tempting when an i-ban comes up)? Or can't you just ignore wherever possible. And where you can't (mostly in edits to articles), responding as neutrally as possible, seeking help or waiting for others rather than allowing a 2 way fight between the 2 of you two develop?
- Nil Einne (talk) 23:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
- FWIW, the Christian orientation is because there are abput 2 dozen articles in a reference work on Christmas relating to Christmas in various locations, and an old, at this point 90 year old, "Biographical Dictionary of the Saints" which runs to about 20,000 entries relating to Christianity. Also, having reviewed some of the reference works which relate to religious holidays, most of those listed are, not surprisingly, Christian, given the number of formal saints and liturgical calendars, presumably. There seem to be few such formal calendars outside of Christianity, from what I've seen, and few reference works which clearly relate to the broad topic of "saints" in non-Christian contexts. Also, there is a problem in at least some of the guru based religions, like ISKCON, with which I have some familiarity, where there might be a brief acknowledgment of a "day" of the guru of the guru of the guru of..., that seems to be the extent of the acknowledgment of such "historical" figures. Basically, it struck me, and still does strike me, that the easiest way to get the guidelines for content set would be by trying to start with the most easily available content, which, given the size of Christianity, also relates to the largest interested body, see what guidelines could be developed regarding national celebrations, etc., and then, maybe, bring in the others to see what if any variations come to mind. John Carter (talk) 14:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @John Carter: Well, I'm not sure how you'll take this right after my criticism of you on a user talk page we've both recently commented on, but I reviewed the Wikipedia space talk page you linked and I don't see your complaint. You had a suggestion about something unrelated to Wikipedia (which, I'm interested in, by the way) and then Hijiri88 suggested you take it to the Christian wikiproject. I know that the history between you two may come into play, but you followed up on that with "I realize you have an all-but-uncontrollable urge to engage in grossly unproductive commentary directed at me." I'll be honest, you look like the instigator. Except, of course, that with the history of dispute, the sensible and wise thing for Hijiri88 to do would've been to ignore the thread and move on.--v/r - TP 01:42, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- One of the problems is, of course, that he seemed to insist on me doing what he said I should do, rather than doing the obvious thing and abiding by WP:DOIT. Also, I should point out, that the complaint was not about my taking it to the Christianity noticeboard, which I had in fact done, but about my not taking it to the talk pages of any other religion projects. My reasons for choosing to start with the Christianity project relate to the material I present in my last comment above here. John Carter (talk) 14:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Nil Einne has said several times in this and the previous thread that I am making "assumptions" about John Carter's motivations for engaging in the kind behaviour he does. I admit that I have allowed such assumptions to colour my wording at times, but I generally try to give the facts as they are. John Carter's behaviour is indisputably disruptive, regardless of his motivations (User:MjolnirPants will back me up that John's comment on Bart Ehrman's supposed involvement in translation of gnostic gospels was bizarre, off-topic, and, if untrue, possibly defamatory; MjolnirPants can also vouch for my having been editing in the Christianity/Bible topic area for years before my dispute with John started). But at least when I make assumptions, they are in some way supported by the facts; John Carter's assumptions about me, like the one above, make no sense whatsoever and appear to have no relation whatsoever to the facts. I never said anything about John "not taking it to the talk pages of any other religion projects". I very specifically said the opposite: that he should keep discussion of specifically Christian topics to specifically Christian noticeboards, rather than annoying the rest of us with off-topic discussion. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:59, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- @TParis: I know that would have been "the sensible and wise thing" for me to do, and you can ask Drmies for the emails where I told him about how frustrating it was having to do this sensible and wise thing when John Carter follows me to discussions I started and I have to just ignore it. It is extremely difficult to be "polite" (read: pretend there is no problem) when replying to John Carter after he follows me to discussions he wasn't involved in, or (like here) didn't technically join in a discussion I started but created a new thread immediately below my one that already wasn't getting the attention it needed. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:36, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
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- Note that even if your extreme assumption was true, it's not like your comment was going to make people notice the thread you initiated since realisticly whatever the merits of your comment, John Carter wasn't going to delete his new thread. Actually it probably means people are less likely to notice. Ultimately as I said above, whoever is more at fault it would be better for both of you if you could learn to deal resonably with each other (doesn't mean you have to like or agree) rather than requiring community enforced action. This would likely include ignoring each other as much as possible, the one who is better at ignoring the other is likely to come across better (obviously other factors will affect the overall impression).
Nil Einne (talk) 08:06, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Nil Einne: Actually, if you read his comment very closely, he actually agreed with me on the substance, but seemed to be really stretching to find something to disagree with me on. This implies that he was not actually there to respond in good faith. Also, I never said that I think John Carter opened his somewhat spammy thread on WT:RELIGION in order to distract from my thread immediately above. I said that the reason I noticed his somewhat spammy thread was because it was posted immediately below my thread that wasn't receiving any attention, rather than (as John Carter keeps claiming) because I am "stalking" his edits. Yes, I do keep track of his edits, but this is because he keeps posting on random admins' user talk pages and noticeboards like this one and requesting that I be blocked, without notifying me. In this case I was pinged, but in all of the other cases I would not be able to defend myself against his accusations without keeping track of his edits. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC) (updated 06:18, 14 May 2016 (UTC))
- One wonders just how many of these threads I am alleged to follow him on relate to the topics I deal with, which are largely religious, and whether Hijiri88's self-involved viewpoint ignores the possibility that I take part in most of those discussions. I believe the full evidence indicates the latter, rather than the former. A distorted view of things from someone with a clear bias is not, in and of itself, ircontrovertible evidence. John Carter (talk) 14:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Pot kettle black. John Carter is the one making accusations that I am "following" him with no evidence. I am (thanks in no small part to John Carter's efforts) technically not allowed post all the evidence of John Carter following me over the past year on-wiki. Again, if anyone wants the information, I would be happy to email it to you, and to authorize you to post it on-wiki as something I wrote. Unlike John Carter, I have nothing to hide. His claiming that I am "biased" and "involved" in claiming that he has been following me but that he is somehow not biased or involved in claiming that I am following him is clearly disruptive, especially when I have already posted incontrovertible evidence that his repeated claims that I am only editing Biblical/Christian topics to harass him are false and made in bad faith. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:08, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Note that even if your extreme assumption was true, it's not like your comment was going to make people notice the thread you initiated since realisticly whatever the merits of your comment, John Carter wasn't going to delete his new thread. Actually it probably means people are less likely to notice. Ultimately as I said above, whoever is more at fault it would be better for both of you if you could learn to deal resonably with each other (doesn't mean you have to like or agree) rather than requiring community enforced action. This would likely include ignoring each other as much as possible, the one who is better at ignoring the other is likely to come across better (obviously other factors will affect the overall impression).
- You forgot the allegations of stalking, which imho from a brief perusal of their editing history, appear to be the reverse of the situation. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:42, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
- And also see the completely out of the blue comment by Hijiri88 at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive922#In the news: Whitewashing in Providence (religious movement), which to my eyes is rather clear evidence of Hijiri88's own stalking. And, certainly, considering that there was no obvious reason for him to comment there other than it being a thread in which I was involved, I think it a possibly clearer case of stalking than any of those he has alleged but provided no evidence for. John Carter (talk) 14:48, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- John Carter has almost no history of editing in Korean topics, while I do. ANI is one of the most, if not the most, active page in the Wikipedia namespace, and I have posted in dozens of threads in which I was not directly involved. At the time I posted, the thread was also immediately below a thread I started. Calling my comment "out of the blue" is ridiculous, and implying I followed John Carter there cannot be defended as a good-faith mistake, as I clearly explained that the reason I was posting was to inform the OP that their pinging User:Shii would not do much good as Shii appears to have dropped off the face of the earth. John Carter should be blocked for these continued outrageous insinuations that I am following him. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:49, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Allow me to call the above, unsubstantiated, assertion ridiculous and very possibly indicative of a pathologicial mindset. If he is referring to my making comments at the now archived ArbCom Request for Amendment page, it seems to me that, as I was one of the parties to the case which was being discussed, I should have been notified of the discussion, which I was not. When one can, reasonably, see that another individual is, perhaps, acting contrary to basic conduct guidelines in trying to prevent input from others involved, it is not unreasonable to wonder just how widespread such behavior might be. And it is worth noting once again that Hijiri seems to be engaging in his repeated request that he be allowed to present his evidence by e-mail, which, of course, does not allow for an option of response. Hijiri — Preceding unsigned comment added by John Carter (talk • contribs)
- John Carter, stop hiding your posts behind random collapse templates, and start signing and dating your own posts. I can't find the diff of you making the above edit, but I can tell it's you because in my eleven years of editing Wikipedia no one has called me "pathological" (or "insane" or "paranoid") except you, and you do so at least once every few weeks. I am not requesting that I be allowed present any evidence via email; I am requesting that you be sanctioned for refusing to provide any evidence of me being an "insane", "paranoid", "pathological" "stalker" despite not being under any restriction that prevents you from doing so, and saying up front that I will provide as much evidence on-wiki as I am allowed, and any contextual explanation that is requested but that I don't think I would be allowed provide per the terms of any ArbCom decisions I would be happy to send by email. I have already posted ample evidence on-wiki of your following me, lying about me, trying to wikilawyer me into a block, vote-stacking, trying to get around the requirement that you inform me of any requests you are making to (members of) the admin corps that I be blocked... Anything sent by email would merely be a supplement. And, as I have already stated in this thread, I would readily grant permission for the recipients of these emails to post their entire, unaltered text on-wiki, as (seemingly unlike you) I am not trying to hide anything. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:42, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
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- Actually, only e-mail him if you want a clearly biased version of the "story," which seems to be primarily based on the assumption that checking a watchlist and responding to changes made that appear in them is "stalking." John Carter (talk) 16:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
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I was pinged since I had commented on the ARCA request. I only read the first post relatively carefully by John Carter and I see no evidence presented for any stalking. That said, Hijiri seems to not mind a mutual I-ban, so if both agree, that is fine. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 05:44, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- I was pinged by Hijiri88, who said I could back him or her up on certain things. In fact, I cannot back them up on their editing history, as I am not familiar enough with it to state with any certainty whether they were editing years before some disagreement I am also not familiar with started. However, their editing history should make that apparent, if it is true. With respect to the claim John Carter made about Ehrman being involved in the translation of the Gospel of Judas: Yes, I can back Hijiri88 up on that. Carter commented that "If I remember correctly, there is and has been reasonable somewhat widespread criticism of his work on the early version of the Gospel of Judas translation..." Not only is this factually inaccurate on the surface, it makes factually inaccurate assumptions about Ehrman's participation in the project. In that context, it is an extremely bizarre thing for someone who should be at least passingly familiar with the subject of New Testament history to say.
- Also, I read the first link John Carter provided, and while I think Hijiri88 might have shown poor judgement in responding in the first place, what came out was a legitimate concern, to which Carter responded by failing to assume good faith and casting serious aspersions on Hijiri88. The implication of stalking there, in fact, more closely resembles Carter's behavior at the FTN thread Hijiri88, John Carter and I participated in.
- There may be more there that I am unaware of, but what I've seen so far causes me to lean towards taking a closer look at why this notice was filed. I'm not advocating for any outcome, mind, just airing my 2 cents. Also, please don't ping me any more unless there are specific questions to ask me. My general thoughts on this have all be aired above, and I really don't want to do the editing history and block log research necessary to come to a more considered, informed opinion on this. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:25, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Correction Hijiri88 reminded me (for the second time) that we had interacted about two years ago in respect to some rather academic issues regarding biblical history. Therefore, I can vouch for this editor having been participating in such work for that period of time. It's also worth noting that I would tentatively vouch for Hijiri88's competence to work in this area: most of us make mistakes and have some false beliefs, including myself, but I've yet to see this editor say anything which I could find to be factually wrong. I cannot speak for any civility issues beyond what I've said above, though I believe I made myself clear, there. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 15:16, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
- Responding since I was pinged and John Carter really needs to drop the stick already. As in every interaction between them, John Carter stalks, character-bashes, casts aspersions, wikilawyers a way to get someone blocked, and/or lies about the reality of the situation. Oh and that "I'm gonna complain about something not happening and then scold you for not making it happen" thing he's pulled before. He's always talking about these reference projects he's cooking up, so maybe he should go work on those instead of getting into fights with Hijiri. Or an IBAN could be placed, since both would agree to it; that works too. I'd still be amicable to an IBAN between myself and John Carter. Anyway, that's my 2¢. If John Carter tries to deny anything I said, I'll be happy to bury him in diffs (or maybe Hijiri will beat me to it). ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 06:01, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not seeing a single diff in the OP or even in the sea of words that is this thread. Therefore I'd be happy if the OP received a boomerang for time-wasting and for stirring a pot he knows shouldn't be stirred. Softlavender (talk) 23:40, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Softlavender: You are right that the OP hasn't provided diffs; as I have stated a few times in this thread, he appears to be trying to convince the admin corps and/or community of my wrongdoing without showing evidence that would backfire on him. But I don't know how it happened that you didn't notice the diffs I provided. I gave at least 15 diffs (and six archive links -- evidence does not have to be given in the form of diffs) in the collapsed sections above. I even made an edit that consisted almost exclusively of adding diffs and archive links to my own earlier post. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:07, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hijiri 88, I'm talking about the OP, not you, and sections are collapsed for a reason. But if you want to start/continue whining as well, I'm happy to suggest that all two or three of you receive feuding blocks from Floquenbeam, who is well-disposed to handing them out, and would be perfectly within his rights to do so here I think after all the ANI time this silly feuding has taken up over the months and years. Softlavender (talk) 00:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- I was responding to where you said "in the sea of words that is this thread", but I appreciate that you were mainly criticizing the OP. Your noticing the OP's lack of diffs is recognized, and appreciated. I frankly don't want any more to do with this thread (I've been sick of ANI for quite some time) and would be content if it closed right now with the OP getting a slap on the wrist and being told to stay out of my hair going forward. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Hijiri 88, I'm talking about the OP, not you, and sections are collapsed for a reason. But if you want to start/continue whining as well, I'm happy to suggest that all two or three of you receive feuding blocks from Floquenbeam, who is well-disposed to handing them out, and would be perfectly within his rights to do so here I think after all the ANI time this silly feuding has taken up over the months and years. Softlavender (talk) 00:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- @Softlavender: You are right that the OP hasn't provided diffs; as I have stated a few times in this thread, he appears to be trying to convince the admin corps and/or community of my wrongdoing without showing evidence that would backfire on him. But I don't know how it happened that you didn't notice the diffs I provided. I gave at least 15 diffs (and six archive links -- evidence does not have to be given in the form of diffs) in the collapsed sections above. I even made an edit that consisted almost exclusively of adding diffs and archive links to my own earlier post. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:07, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Unsourced changes made by 73.133.140.233
This is the last [248] edit of a series of unsourced changes made by 73.133.140.233 (talk · contribs). IP had enough warnings regarding the introduction of unsourced material, yet they keep making unreferenced changes along a number of airline crash articles.--Jetstreamer Talk 13:10, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- I'm thinking maybe the IP isn't aware they have a talkpage, and so hasn't seen the warnings. I've blocked for 31 hours to get their attention and help them find their talkpage. If they reply there in a constructive way, please unblock, any admin who sees it. Thanks for reporting, Jetstreamer. Bishonentalk 15:56, 16 May 2016 (UTC).
- Thank you Bishonen. I'll let you know if the IP replies at their talk.--JetstreamerTalk 20:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Every IP editor sees an orange bar across the screen the first time they access the site after the message has been posted. It includes a link for accessing the message (i.e. clicking on it takes them to the talk page whether or not they know of its existence). The system is very efficient - I sometimes receive notification of messages posted nine years ago when nobody has edited in the interim. 78.145.24.30 (talk) 13:26, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you Bishonen. I'll let you know if the IP replies at their talk.--JetstreamerTalk 20:25, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
Edit war on Jonathan Mann page escalated to personal attacks
IP 129.67.16.1 (talk) added a notability tag to the Jonathan Mann page, and when I added additional information and removed the tag, they reverted me twice without any edit summary or discussion. They also removed my message on their talk page asking for discussion, and twice removed Jonathan Mann from a disambiguation page, again without any explanation or discussion. Now they have left a hateful message on my talk page, and reverted me again, without an edit summary or discussion. Funcrunch (talk) 01:48, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- He's been issued a one-month block. They can't indef IP's, but that one's pretty good. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:19, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Funcrunch's userpage could benefit from the eyes of a few helpful admins. This IP is now block-evading to target them with hateful comments. Thanks -Thibbs (talk) 19:40, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Funcrunch should request semi-protection of his user page and talk page, either here or at WP:RFPP. If attacks occur on the article talk page, that could be temporarily semi'd also. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:43, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Watchlisted both the article and Funcrunch's user page. Agree that this is a case worthy of temporary protection. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:45, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- A lengthy block of the latest IP should also be considered. The IP went dormant once the newer IP came along, and now the previous one has been resurrected. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for catching this while I was out, folks. (BTW I'm a "they," not a "he.") I figured the IP that added the notability tag this morning (PDT) might be a sock, but I had to go out and someone had already reverted, so I didn't report them. (And now I see that was actually a different IP from the one who later vandalized my page.) In any case, yes, if I can request semi-protection of my user and talk page here, I would like to do so. Funcrunch (talk) 00:39, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Another IP just re-added the notability tag and trolled my talk page, in rapid succession. Funcrunch (talk) 14:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
- Since my user page was just vandalized again and I haven't seen any formal response from an admin on this incident report, I've submitted a request for page protection. Funcrunch (talk) 00:31, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
- My user page has been semi-protected, but the harassment has continued on my talk page, and has escalated to deadnaming. (That user has been temporarily blocked.) I'm not sure what other options I have to thwart these attacks at this point. Funcrunch (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Concerns about copyright and referencing
The contributions of User:Rberchie is troubling and concerning. The user is not only a serial copyright violator but have also added numerous fake references to Wikipedia articles. Like user:Wikicology, they created hundreds of articles that are either unsourced or fortified with fake references. see my comment on their talk page. I followed Wikicology case from the now archived messy ANI thread to the Arbitration request. (Redacted) I discovered that User:Rberchie is part of Wiki Loves Women as a Wikipedian in residence. Having editors like Rberchie to serve as Wikipedian in residence will be counter-productive. Peter Damian and User:Mendaliv may be interested in this discussion. Idiot Guruman (talk) 11:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- That was your ninth post??? Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 11:43, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Mind you, it seems to be a fair question. Most of the images (except that one of him in
Wikicology'shis office, and that other) seem OK; but he is totally gilding his sources. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 11:52, 17 May 2016 (UTC)- (Non-administrator comment) It may be a fair question, but it also seems fair that Rberchie gets a chance of actually answering the questions posed. He has last been active on the 16th and the questions were all posted today (the 17th), some four to five hours ago. There's more than a small chance that Rberchie simply isn't aware of any of these questions, let alone this ANI-thread. At least one of the alleged copyright infringements on commons wasn't even uploaded by that user. All in all, way too soon and way too sloppy for WP:ANI. Kleuske (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Not bad for a ninth post though. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:09, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) It may be a fair question, but it also seems fair that Rberchie gets a chance of actually answering the questions posed. He has last been active on the 16th and the questions were all posted today (the 17th), some four to five hours ago. There's more than a small chance that Rberchie simply isn't aware of any of these questions, let alone this ANI-thread. At least one of the alleged copyright infringements on commons wasn't even uploaded by that user. All in all, way too soon and way too sloppy for WP:ANI. Kleuske (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- Suggest a thread title change. "Second Wikicology" is just going to get you blocked for harassing Wikicology, and probably get this thread prematurely closed as started for divisive reasons. My suggestion is that if there are copyvio images, tag them for speedy as such (or nominate for WP:PUF or a Commons DR if it's not blatant). Make a note of those images. As to the hundreds of bad articles, it might be worth taking a look. Still I agree with Kleuske that giving Rberchie a chance to respond before coming to ANI would have been a good idea. But now that we're here, well... —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 12:25, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I changed the thread title to the actual issues at hand. Also, Idiot Guruman, I'm offended by your smear of "hundreds of editors like Wikicology from Global South" which maligns many editors without any evidence and also verges on colonial racism. I suggest you strike that accusation. It is especially galling to see such sweeping insults from an editor with 12 edits! Did you create this account just to make this complaint? Liz 13:29, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
- I came to this via UAA. I have no opinion on the underlying issue, but this editor who appears out of nowhere to harass a user, that's not OK and I blocked them indefinitely. DoRD, you know about this already; Mike V, you looked into one of the IPs before. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
I have re-opened the case, since the underlying matter has not been resolved. I have no comment on the details. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 01:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- The now-blocked OP asked a series of questions on Rberchie's talk page. the answers were ....not promising. Jytdog (talk) 14:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
- For sure, Rberchie's media uploads on Commons are concerning. Some images are his own, that is not in reasonable doubt. However, here he claims that an image of the Ghanaian declaration of independence (which happened in 1957) was his own work: note the file information template says it was done in 2015. This suggests at minimum a lack of understanding of the rules on derivative works. Still, that's no worse than the incompetence demonstrated by several WMF staff who do not seem to realise that CC BY-SA requires you to attribute the authors of things you screenshot. BethNaught (talk) 20:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Donner60 keeps on removing source.
Filer blocked by Drmies for 1 week for edit warring. (non-admin closure) EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, Donner60 keeps on remove source in Survivor: Kaôh Rōng. Wikipedia policy requires citing of sources, especially when the fact is not known (because it was not shown on the TV programme). 108.162.157.141 (talk) 02:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Unverified Twitter accounts are not consider reliable sources. This really belongs over on AN3 given the number of times you reverted... And Donner60 was not notified of this ANI. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 03:01, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you @EvergreenFir:. That is the point of my reverts. Content change based on a twitter post, not what was apparently on the show or stated in a reliable, verifiable source about the show. If this had been brought to my talk page, I would have given a more explicit reply than the template delivered. In the alternative, I would have acknowledged a mistake if I had made one. Donner60 (talk) 03:09, 20 May 2016 (UTC)