위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive1034

Wikipedia:
알림판 아카이브
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기타 링크

사용자:PlanetAakash 및 사용자:벤줄리오87

이 두 개의 계정을 매우 의심스럽게 생각하여, 그들은 시스템을 조작해 왔고, 그것과 관련된 더 많은 양말뭉치 계정이 있을 수 있으며, 그들이 유료 기사를 쓸 때 사용하는 것, 최근의 것은 카란 재니에 대한 것이다.그가 받을 만한 실질적인 상은 얻지 못했다. -> 그가 받은 상은 1012명의 기고자들과 공유되었던 '혁신상'이다. -> 링크 여기 있다. -> https://breakthroughprize.org/News/32,과 다른 상들은 그가 공부한 대학에서 받은 지역 대학 상일 뿐이다.그는 학업성취도 기준을 통과하지 못한다.또한 플래닛아카시는 이전에 유료 기사를 쓴 적이 있으며, 당신은 그의 토크 페이지에서 확인할 수 있으며, 벤줄리오87(인디안 정부 관리 lol!)은 다음과 같은 초안을 작성했다.Aakash Gautam(이 사람은 PlanetAakash이다).2405:201:C808:F33:B171:3312:D05B:621E (대화) 13:22, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:KyleJoan사용자:데이브펠머

나는 오늘 아침에도 몇 가지 이슈를 반복해서 보았다. 그것은 일종의 편집 전쟁과 함께 Birds of Food(2020 영화) 기사에서 시작되었고 카일 조안은 데이브펠머에게 자신의 의제를 전달하기 위해 여러 개의 계정을 만드는 것에 대해 SPI를 제기했다.나는 이곳이 맹금류 기사 역사와 대화 페이지에 대해 거쳐야 할 많은 것들이 있다고 생각한다.나는 정말로 지금 관리자 개입이 필요하다고 생각한다.Gobvy (대화) 09:21, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

주요 이슈는 Davefelmer가 논란이 되는 소재들을 계속적으로 Birds of Food(2020 영화)의 리드 섹션에 추가한다는 것이다.이와 관련, 그들은 자신들의 추가사항에 대해 합의를 얻었다고 거짓 주장함으로써 요약/합리화한다.나는 또한 최근 데이브펠머의 영화 기사 주요 섹션 편집본 중 많은 부분이 다른 사용자들에 의해 뒤바뀌었다는 것을 말하고 싶다; 몇몇 예로는 이 디프트아이언맨2, 디프트의 찰리의 에인절스(2019년 영화) 있다. 스타워즈: 이 디프에는 스카이워커의 상승, 그리고디프에는 맹금(2020년 영화)이 있다.카일 조안talk 10:36, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

문제의 기사토크페이지 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Birds_of_Prey_(2020_film) 링크 입니다.이 논의는 3/4 편집자들이 관련 정보의 포함과 관련하여 3월 17일 이후 한 가지 언급이 있어 진행되지 않는 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Birds_of_Prey_(2020_film)#BoP_a_box_office_dissapointment에서 제기되었으며, 이 논의는 관련 정보의 포함과 관련이 있다.문제의 RfC인 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Birds_of_Prey_(2020_film)#RfC_about_relation_to_DCEU_Universe_and_break-even_point.사용자 KyleJoan에 의해 두 가지 다른 점이 제기되었는데, 그 중 하나는 건드리지 않았지만, 또 다른 하나는 3/4 편집자들이 KyleJoan이 반대했던 정보의 포함을 지지했다.지난 13일 동안 이 페이지에 한 가지 언급이 있어, 카일 조안이 어제 가서 SPI 조사를 시작했다는 사실만 빼면, 그 논쟁은 진행되지 않고 있다. 다만, 위의 Gobvy가 링크한 SPI인 내 Sockpuppuppet으로 포함된 것을 지지하는 사용자 중 한 명에 대한 SPI 조사를 시작했다는 사실만 빼면, 그리고 그것을 훑어보는 사람은 누구나 그 사실을 알게 될 것이다.우리가 여기서 다루고 있는 것에 대한 불합리함(그는 SPI 조작의 증거를 주장하고 있다) (영화 기사 대화 페이지에서 서로 다른 사용자들의 두 개의 답변이 우연히 "사진"과 "균형"이라는 단어를 공유했기 때문이다...내 말은, "set" 또는 "happy"라는 단어를 사용하는 두 명의 사용자들이 자동적으로 양말 퍼펫이 될 것을 요구하는 다음 계획은 무엇인가?"예산"과 "양호")는 어떨까?자신이 좋아하지 않는 공감대가 형성되는 것을 미루는 것은 그야말로 난처한 일이다.
그리고 당연하게도, 과거에 내가 했던 영화 기사의 편집 내용 중 그가 무작위로 지적한 것은 전혀 의미가 없다.위키백과 편집자는 그가 편집한 내용 중 일부가 되돌아가서 논의되는 것을 보게 될 것이다. 그것이 이 프로젝트의 본질이다.나의 최근 역사를 되돌아보면, 영화 기사에서도 뒤바뀌지 않고 서 있는 편집된 내용을 볼 수 있을 것이다. 하지만 그것은 유사하게 여기에도 없고, 거기에도 없다.강조된 편집 내용 중 어떤 것도 다른 편집자들과 심각한 논쟁을 일으키지 않았고 그 페이지들은 한동안 터치되지 않았다.이 게시판이 RfC와 BoP의 대화 페이지와 아무런 관련이 없는 이런 내용들이 포함된 것으로 보인다. 이 게시판은 내가 이것을 검토할 사람에 대한 편집자로서의 인식에 부정적인 작은 씨앗을 심으려고 노력하는 것 외에 다른 이유 없이 포함되었다. 나는 사람들이 카일 조안을 위해 똑같이 할 것처럼 굴지 말 것을 촉구한다.e 끌어다 쓸 수 있는 상당히 광범위한 정보 풀.데이브펠머 (대화) 17:46, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

콜리반스키, 편집 워링, IDHT, 스크리드

Kolyvansky (talk · concidents) 캐나다 약물의 편집, 규제 포획에서 오랫동안 골치 아픈, WP:내 토크 페이지의 IDHT, 경고로 가득 찬 TP.그 문제는 다루기 어려울 것 같다.조언 부탁해.클루스케(토크) 19:13, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

클레우스케, 마지막 경고 이후 편집은 없지만 WP로 바로 전달될 수 있다.가 그것을 반복한다면 새로워진다.그 내용의 장점에 대해서는 의견이 없지만, 이것은 곧 편집 전쟁이다.가이 (도움말!) 20:27, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

UserNumber에 의한 Talk 페이지 중단

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


UserNumberTalk의 공격적인 소유권을 자주 보여주고 있다.Bakarkhani, 컨텐츠 분쟁에 깊이 관여했음에도 불구하고 RfC를 종료하고 그를 역전한 모든 사람과 전쟁을 편집함.[1][2]

그는 또한 더 이상의 토크 페이지에서의 코멘트를 삭제하고 있다.[3] 그는 이미 관리 El_C로부터 그것을 멈추라는 말을 들었으나, [4] 그는 하지 않을 것이며, 그는 "할 것"이라고 위협하고 있다. 나쁜 짓을 그만두지 않으면 너희에게 보고하라.", [5] 그를 다시 돌려보낸 사람이 있다면.Aman Kumar Goel(Talk) 04:17, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

31시간 차단.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 04:57, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:기자핑크는 이미 차단된 후 다른 편집자에 대한 인신공격을 계속하고 있다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이전에 WP 위반으로 차단된 후 해당 사용자:NPA사용자:CaradhrasAiguo가 "중국 국가를 위해 일하고 있는지"를 묻는 수동적인 메시지를 남겼다[6]."Gizapink"에 대한 Blocklog를 참조하십시오. 특히 Gizapink가 이러한 종류의 인신공격의 역사를 가지고 있다는 점을 고려하면 상당히 선동적인 행동이다.체스 (토크) 2020년 4월 10일 07:13에 회신할 때 핑[응답]

Gizapink가 CA의 토크 페이지다시 올리기 위해 CA를 되돌렸고 CA가 WP에서 두 번 OPLEAS 의제를 가지고 있다고 주장한 것은 주목할 필요가 있다.NEWARE (1, 2)마크H21talk 07:18, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
체스가 암시하듯이, 앞의 블록은 이 소극적인 공격적(놀라운!) 발언을 위한 것이었다.CaradhrasAiguo (left language) 07:21, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 참고로, 이것이 3월에 처음으로 지자핑크가 막히게 된 확산이라고 나는 거의 확신한다.여기에서 COVID-19 관련 주제 또는 다른 블록에 대한 주제 금지가 적절할 수 있다.나는 카라드하스 에이구오와 (그들의 토크 페이지를 자유롭게 볼 수 있다)라고 말할 수 있도록 "역사"가 없는 척 하지 않을 것이며, 완전한 공개의 이익으로 나는 무권력 편집자가 아니다.하지만 이것은 정말 노골적이고, 정말 미개한 일이며, 다루어야 할 일이다.체스(토크) 2020년 4월 10일 07:22에 회신할 때 핑[응답]
일주일 동안 차단했는데, 솔직히 140개 편집했는데 벌써 두 번이나 차단된 편집자가 너무 많은 시간을 보내는 것 같아 걱정이다.---임블란터 (토크) 08:17, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

찻집에서의 법적 위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:스프라크여기서 법적 위협을 했다.나는 그곳에서 그리고 그들의 토크 페이지에 그들이 다른 것을 하기 전에 그것을 철회해야 한다고 말했는데, 대신 그들은 이것을 게시했다. --보나데아 기부 토크 07:58, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자--Ymblanter (talk) 08:10, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답] 차단했다.
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

HD 182681

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


사용자:Reskin은 별 [[7], [8], [9], [[10]]에 대해 연마라 이름을 계속 추가한다.나는 이 청구에 대한 어떠한 언급도 찾을 수 없었고, 그들이 CN 태그를 추가하려고 시도하지 않았다.또한 COI가 될 수 있으며, 따라서 홍보 콘텐츠 [11]이 될 수 있다.사실 이 모든 것이 그들이 지난 몇 달 동안 한 것 같다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 14:32, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 여전히 [12]이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 14:42, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

이것으로 설명이 될 수 있다.드레이미스 (토크) 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC) 14:48[응답]
(분쟁 편집) Slattersteven, 당신이 연결한 그 웹사이트는 비디오 게임 같은 것을 위한 것으로 보인다. (그리고 발견의 해는 약 2세기가 지난 해라고 말한다.)픽션을 배제하지는 않겠지만 COI는 의심스럽다.크레펫 (토크) 14:50, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 진짜 별에 대한 기사를 만들고 과학 연구와 인용문을 2019년 12월 4일에 작성했다.이 통칭은 거의 20년 동안 사용되어 왔다.내용을 원하지 않을 경우 전체 문서를 삭제하십시오. Reskin(대화 기여) 14:56, 2020년 4월 10일(UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 사전 서명되지 않은 논평
좋아, 욘마라 건을 삭제하고 원래의 리디렉션을 복구했으며, 상승:에서 많은 스팸 링크를 도태했다. 비네오 주.러스켄, 당신은 WP가깝소.여기선 안 돼, 알겠어?제발 이것 저것 개발했다는 BS는 여기 가지고 오지 마.드레이미스 (대화) 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC) 14:57 (답변)
그들은 자신들이 [13]을 한다고 생각한다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:11, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
제발, 이건 점점 지루해지고 모두의 시간을 낭비하고 있어.그들이 쓴 페이지 외에 다른 출처가 그것을 사용하지 않더라도, 그들은 단지 이것을 공식 명칭으로 제정하려고 노력하고 있는 것이 분명하다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 14:58, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 나는 내가 12월에 제출했던 정보의 사용을 다시 구속하고 있다는 것이다.레스킨 (대화) 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC) 15:00[응답]
당신은 그 기사를 소유하지 않는다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:01, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 지금 [14]의 Waring을 편집한다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:00, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Meganr314 및 요약 편집

새로 등록한 사용자 메간r314를 한 번 더 봐주면 고맙겠다.이러한 편집의 많은 부분이 불필요하게 양식적 또는 문구 변경으로 나타나는데, 이 중 일부는 유용하지 않아 사용자가 자동 확증되기 위해 시스템을 게임하고 있음을 시사한다.또한 제공된 요약 편집에는 일종의 프로모션일 수도 있는 해시태그가 포함되어 있다.특히 편집요약에 대해 사용자에게 주의를 주었지만, 행동이 계속되어 이것을 여기에 가져왔다. --Kinu c/ 22:27, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]

특별 참조:기부금/다니엘라가메즈.게인즈 펠로우쉽과 관련이 있는 것 같아, 그게 뭐든.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 23:14, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 게인즈 펠로우쉽에 대한 몇 가지 정보가 있다.나는 왜 그들이 위키피디아 편집 요약을 해시태깅하는지 모르겠다.컬렌렛328 2020년 4월 9일 23:23 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]
다른 편집자와 프로그램 자체에 대해 미리 알려줘서 고마워.이게 완전히 공개되지 않는 어떤 과정이나 논문 관련 편집이어야 하는지 궁금하다. --Kinu c/ 00:08, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

불충분한 소싱 또는 비소싱 논란이 있는 클레임

Velike Lashche 및 기타 기사에서 불충분한 출처 또는 비소싱 논란이 있는 주장을 지속적으로 삽입하는 것에 관한 조치 또는 조언을 요청.사용자(사용자 대화:Starangel19)는 WP:WPINARS와 복수의 편집자는 사용자가 신뢰할 수 있는 출처 없이 논쟁적인 주장을 삽입하는 것을 중단할 것을 요청했다.감사합니다.도레모(토크) 14:50, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

어쨌든 그건 이 한 편집자 쪽이야.과거에 나는 몇몇 편집상의 실수를 훌륭히 해냈다.그러나 한가지 중요한 것은 여기서 언급되어야 한다; 관련된 기사들의 편집자들은 슬로베니아에서 2차 세계대전 "피해자들"의 정치적 제휴와 관련하여 중요한 정보를 반복적으로 그리고 끈질기게 무시하고 있어서 그들은 수많은 슬로베니아 마을들의 위키백과 영어판에 글을 쓰는 것을 매우 좋아한다.그들은 2차 세계대전 동안 슬로베니아 영토를 점령한 이탈리아 파시스트나 독일 나치의 협력자였다는 사실을 의도적으로 언급하지 않았다.이러한 편집자들은 자신들이 인용하고 있는 출처에 이러한 유형의 정보가 알려졌을 때(예: 로가슈카 슬라티나 위키페이지의 다니엘 시터) 또는 위키백과 페이지의 다른 저자(예: 프로스토볼즈나 프로티코노미스트치나 밀리카)가 점령자들에 대한 정치적 제휴를 강조했을 때에도 이렇게 한다.이들 편집자들은 슬로베니아 점령자들-나치와 파시스트-와의 '피해자들'의 협업을 은폐하려 하고 있으며, 사실 의도적으로 독자를 어둠 속에 가두어둠으로써 역사적 수정주의를 실천하려 하고 있다.슬로베니아의 미사 그레이브스에 관한 이 글에서 그들은 희생자들을 크로아티아인과 세르비아인이라고 반복해서 언급하고 있다.그들이 일부러 언급하지 않는 것은 이들이 크로아티아 협력자 우스타셰와 세르비아 협력자 체트니키의 무장해제된 군부대라는 사실인데, 이들은 서부로 향하는 슬로베니아 영토를 통해 후퇴하고 있었는데, 그곳에서 그들은 처벌을 면하기를 바랐다.나치/파시스트의 사과론자들이 중요한 세부 사항들을 독자에게서 멀리함으로써 역사를 다시 쓰려 한다는 사실에 나는 극도로 신경이 쓰인다.위키피디아는 신나치주의와 신파시즘의 포럼이 되어서는 안 된다. Starangel19 (대화 기여) 16:33, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평

WP는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에서 물질의 검증가능성에 의해 구동되며, 당신이 당신의 diff와 여기 언급하고 있는 것처럼 무작위로 만들어진 클레임에 의해서가 아니다.만약 그러한 연계가 있다면, 그것을 보여주기 위해 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 제공하지만, 위키백과 자체는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 아니라는 것을 이해하라.이는 극히 논란이 많은 주장이고, 각종 재량권 제재가 적용되는 분야인 만큼, 그런 조언을 따르지 않을 경우 스스로 차단될 수 있다. --Masem (t) 17:11, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
마셈이 한 말에 덧붙여 말하고자 하는 것은, 당신이 인정하는 이 주제의 매우 중요한 부분이라는 것은, 믿을 만한 출처에서 검증될 수 있는 말을 할 때에만 주의를 기울여야 한다는 것을 의미한다.우리는 그러한 협력을 뒷받침할 구체적인 신뢰할 수 있는 역사적 원천이 없는 상태에서 그러한 협력에 대한 일반적인 주장을 하는 사업을 하고 있지 않다.필 브리저 (대화) 17:34, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

이것들은 정말로 무작위로 만들어진 주장이 아니라 슬로베니아에 있는 기본적인 초등학교 수준의 역사다.슬로베니아 역사에 대해 완전히 암암리에 빠져 있는 누군가를 제외하고는 내가 하는 말에 대해 극히 논란의 여지가 있는 것은 없다.그러한 출처를 위해 당신은 2차 세계 대전 동안 로가스카 슬라티나 *유명한 스파 타운*에서 다니엘 시터의 MA 논문을 읽을 수 있다(미사 묘지 아래 로가스카 슬라티나의 WP 페이지에 있는 목록에 있는 출처들 중 pdf 링크).시터가 인용/목록 페이지의 논문에서 무엇을 썼는지, WP 편집자가 무엇을 쓰고 있는지, 그리고 그가 의도적으로 인정하지 않는지를 스스로 읽고 검증할 수 있다.시터는 특히 지금까지 발굴된 무덤이 없기 때문에 희생자들의 숫자/국적을 추정/보급한다고 명시하고 있다.그는 또한 우스타셰의 군부대가 2차 세계대전이 끝난 후 지역 인구를 잘 위협하고 있다고 말한다.사실 그는 우스타셰(슬로브)를 언급한다.우스타시) 41회.그는 장관들이 서부로 가는 길에 로가슈카 슬라티나에서 시간을 보냈다면 우스타셰 사령관 안테 파벨리치와 그의 내각 전체가 그 곳에 있다고 쓰고 있다.나는 경험이 부족한 WP 편집자일지 모르지만 적어도 나는 내 경험을 역사 왜곡에 이용하지 않고 있으며, 네오나치주의와 네오파시즘을 낳고 있는 역사 수정주의의 매우 석연치 않은 의제를 홍보하고 있다.역사 수정주의가 극도로 문제가 되고 있는 크로아티아의 역사 수정주의에 대해 읽을 만한 것을 찾을 수 있을 것이라고 확신한다. Starangel19 (대화 기여) 17:43, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평

만약 이러한 사실들이 그렇게 잘 알려져 있다면, 그 사실들을 위한 독립적인 신뢰할 수 있는 자료들을 찾기가 쉬울 것이다, 이것이 사람들이 요구하는 전부다.하지만 석사 논문보다 더 나은 것이 필요하다. (Wikipedia 편집은 나에게 변위 활동이다.)필 브리저 (대화) 17:48, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
(ec)만약 이것이 "슬로베니아의 기본적인 초등학교 수준의 역사" 정보라면, 이를 문서화하기 위해 책과 잘 출판된 다른 신뢰할 수 있는 자료들을 제공하는 것이 쉬워야 한다.임의의 석사 논문은 출처로서 사용할 수 없음 --Masem (t) 17:53, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

로가스카 슬라티나의 편집자는 다니엘 시터의 MA 논문을 인용하고 있다. 나는 단지 시간을 들여 저자가 자신의 사과주의 의제를 더 발전시키기 위해 MIS를 인용하고 있는 부분을 읽고 검증했다.그는 시터의 MA논문을 이용해 자신의 주장에 신빙성을 부여하고 있을 뿐 언급된 논문에서는 실제로 찾아볼 수 없다.유럽의 경우, 저자의 연구가 Ljubljana 대학의 교수들에 의해 지도되기 때문에, 일정 기간 동안 한 마을에 대한 심층 분석이 신뢰할 수 있는 학문적 원천을 제공할 수 있다.아마도 앵글로색슨 세계에서는 다르고 질도 훨씬 낮을 것이다.MA 논문을 믿을 만한 자료로 물리치는 것은 매우 논란이 있어 보이지만, 어쨌든 인용되는 것을 승인한다.나는 우리가 이것에 관해 건설적인 토론을 할 수 있을 지 확신할 수 없다; 나는 당신이 슬로베니아 역사에 익숙하지 않고 슬로베니아어를 말하지 않는 것 같다. 그래서 당신은 실제로 어떤 구체적이거나 건설적인 것에 기여하지 않고 나에게 전반적인 조언을 하는 것에 제한되어 있다. Starangel19 (대화 기여) 18:15, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평

만약 MA 논문이 그렇게 보잘것없다면, 왜 사람들은 그것을 하고 있을까?로가스카 슬라티나는 5000명의 주민이 사는 마을로 슬로베니아에서 학술 연구의 중심지가 아니다.전쟁 중에 R.S.라는 주제로 한 박사학위가 결국 없을 때, 어떻게 해야 하는가?나는 사람들이 그들의 학문적 "우수함" 뒤에 있는 주제에 대한 그들의 지식 부족을 감추기 시작할 때 WP의 학문적 바가 (갑자기) 불가능할 정도로 높아졌다는 것을 본다.

사람들은 M.A. 학위를 따기 위한 간단한 이유로 그것들을 하고 있다.석사학위 논문들은 박사학위 논문이나 학술지에 게재된 논문들이 하는 사실 확인과 동료 검토를 거치지 않기 때문에 믿을 만한 출처로 여겨지지 않는다.이것은 당신의 애완동물 주제뿐만 아니라 어떤 주제에도 해당된다.그리고 그것은 당신이나 당신의 반대자들이 그런 논문을 인용하든 적용된다.필 브리저 (대화)20:20, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
자, 그 문제에 대해서, 고등학교 에세이가 그렇게 보잘것없다면, 왜 사람들도 에세이를 하고 있는 것일까? (Hint: WP 기사에 인용될 수 있도록)너의 추리로 보아 우리는 조카의 4학년 숙제를 출처로 삼을 수 있다.EENG 02:54, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

음, 내 상대방은 마치 편집자의 주장을 증명하는 것처럼 MA 논문을 인용하고 있지만, 그것은 그렇지 않다.아무도 그가 그렇게 하는 것을 반대하거나 말리지 않았고 아무도 (나 말고는) 가서 인용한 정보를 검증하지 않았다.나는 듣기만 하고 어쩌면 현명하게 충고받는 대신에 WP로부터 차단될 것이라는 의심과 조롱, 후원, 위협을 받고 있다.내 생각에 이것은 당신이 사람들의 우리들을 덜컹거리기 시작하고 그들이 그들의 속옷을 비틀어 놓았을 때 일어나는 현상인 것 같다.만약 편집자가 사용한 것을 언급하고 MIS가 전쟁시 로가슈카 슬라티나를 주제로 한 박사논문을 인용했다면 어떻게 되었을까?마찬가지로, 당신은 아마도 그 주제에 대한 자신의 무지를 감추기 위해 그를 중심으로 모일 것이고 WP의 질을 향상시키기 위해 어떤 실체도 하지 않을 것이다.아, 그래, 너는 그것에 대해 경고했다고 나를 공격할 거야!! Starangel19 (대화 기여) 23:12, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평

  • 검증 가능성과 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 대한 표준을 숙지하십시오.질문이 있는 경우 찻집에서 질문하거나, 보다 복잡한 질문이나 특정 출처의 신뢰성에 대한 논쟁을 위해 WP에서 토론을 시작할 수 있다.RSN. ~스왑~ 23:22, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

자, 여기서 좋은 소식은 스타란젤19가 동유럽의 더 큰 우산 아래에 있는 국가들에 대해 뚜렷한 관심을 보였다는 것인데, 이는 이 문제에 대한 중재위원회의 판결이 본격적으로 효력을 발휘한다는 것을 의미한다.편집장은 이제 여기서 제재 조치를 통보받았고, 따라서 더 큰 혼란을 겪게 되면 우리는 더 빠른 조치를 취할 수 있을 것이다.위에 주어진 조언은 의심할 여지 없이 무시될 것이다. 나는 우리가 막힘이나 페이지 보호를 받기 전에 그것을 한 달 동안 할 것이다.톰스타81 (토크) 06:12, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:2001:56A:774D:8F00:/64

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 이 사용자가 무엇을 하고 있는지 알 수 없지만, 백과사전을 만드는 것은 그렇지 않다.AIV에서 보고하는 게 아니야 그들이 해를 끼칠 생각은 없는 것 같으니까그러나 100개 이상의 편집은 거의 모두 시간 낭비일 뿐이다. (디프스?무작위로 골라라.)WP를 위한 시간인가?CIR 블록?IP는 매우 역동적이어서 그들이 단 한 번의 토크 페이지 메시지도 보지 못했을 것이다. 하지만 적어도 그 블록은 그들의 관심을 끌 것이다.황색 투약 (토크) 03:08, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

운영 중단 편집에 대한 차단 x 3개월나는 이것이 고의적이라는 높은 자신감을 가지고 있다.사거리는 이전에도 비쇼넨에 의해 차단되었다. -Ad Orientem (대화) 04:03, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
@Ad Orientem: 대화 액세스가 취소되어야 할 수도 있다. 사용자 대화:2001:56A:774D:8F00:9193:7CED:BB28:E2F2를 참조하십시오.홈랜더 (대화) 14:09, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
완료 -Ad Orientem (대화) 14:17, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

토크에서의 건방진 행동:코로나바이러스병 2019

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

기사 코로나바이러스병 2019와 해당 기사 토크페이지는 일반 제재 대상이다.이것들은 COVID-19와 관련된 기사의 내용에 대한 빠른 변화를 억제하기 위해 필요한 것으로 증명되었다.

RTG(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)유투브 동영상으로 소싱된 기사에 생물학적 주장을 담은 내용을 추가했다.이 동영상은 자체 발행된 출처로서 WP가 요구하는 표준에 한참 못 미친다.MEDRS 의학적 클레임 요청그뿐 아니라 저자는 자신을 '세계 1위 체중감량 외과의사'라고 표현하고, 동영상 텍스트 설명도 체중감량 실천을 위한 알몸 광고다.자체 발행된 출처가 WP를 충족하려면:RS (MEDRS는 말할 것도 없고) WP를 충족해야 할 것이다.최소한 SPS 요건: "자체 발행된 전문가 소스신뢰할 수 있고 독립적인 출판물에 의해 해당 분야의 작업이전에 발표된 적이 있는 해당 주제에 대해 확립전문가생산했을 신뢰할 수 있는 것으로 간주될 수 있다.유튜브의 저자가 그 기준에 부합하는 방법은 절대 없다.

Moksha88 - 편집 요약에 의해 내용이 삭제됨:유튜브는 WP가 아니다.RSMED.

RTG - 편집 요약에 의해 바로 복원됨:그것은 사례에 근거한 것이다. 기사에는 이 내용이 없다. 이것은 현재 이 사건에 대해 추가될 수 있는 가장 귀중한 정보 모드다. 교체하지 않고 제거하지 마십시오. 개선해 주시옵소서..."

다시 한 번 삭제 - 요약 편집: WP에서 요구하는 대로 생물학적 클레임에는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 필요하다.MEDRS는 우리의 소싱 가이드라인을 명백히 위반한 것이다.그리고 나서 나는 RTG에 일반 제재 경보를 발령하고 그들의 소싱 정책 위반에 대해 경고했다.

기사토크 페이지에서는 목샤88이 토론을 열었었다.RTG는 토론과 그의 토크 페이지 모두에서 계속 주장해 왔다: 그들의 콘텐츠는 생물학적 주장이 아니다; 유튜브 비디오는 2차 소스가 아니다; 신뢰할 수 있는 소싱이 부족함에도 불구하고, 그들의 콘텐츠는 포함되어야 한다; 유튜브는 사용할 수 있어야 한다. ("기본적으로 3종류의 신소싱이 있다"는 믿을 수 없는 주장을 포함)ces. 일차적, 이차적, 외부적 자원.;; 그리고 외과의사들은 바이러스학자들보다 바이러스의 병태생리학에 더 전문가다.

나는 참을성 있게 WP에 관한 우리의 지침을 설명하고 인용했다.MEDRSWP:SPS는 내가 할 수 있는 한 분명하게 하지만, 나는 지금 반복된 인신공격으로 인해 엎질러진 똑같은 불가능한 논쟁의 건방진 반복을 만나게 되는데, 그것은 나에게 "당신은 당신이 무슨 말을 하고 있는지 모른다"고 두 번 말해주는 것이다.

RTG의 토크 페이지에 대한 Permalink

기사 토크 페이지 토론에 대한 권한 부여

소싱 요구사항, 편집-전쟁, 강압적 편집을 준수하지 않는 것은 일반 제재 대상 페이지의 편집자들이 예상한 표준을 상당히 위반하는 것이다.만약 내가 RTG의 인신공격의 대상이 되지 않았다면, 나는 다른 범죄들에 대해 그들을 제재했을 텐데, 지금은 너무 연루되었다고 느낀다.그러므로 나는 그들의 현재 행동을 억제하기 위해 자발적인 관리자에게 RTG에 대한 제재를 가할 것을 요청한다. --RexxS (대화) 21:25, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

일반적인 제재를 사용하여 MEDRS를 준수하도록 하는 것이 내가 할 일이다.나는 먼저 가서 사용자에게 경고를 했다.El_C 21:28, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
우리가 바이오/헬스 콘텐츠에 대해 이야기하지 않았더라도 그 출처는 받아들일 수 없을 것이다.그리고… 유튜브에 CDC와 기만적인 연결고리가 있는 것 같다.마치 그의 개인 동영상이 아닌 CDC 동영상이라는 주장이 나오는 것처럼 오해의 소지가 있는 것으로 보인다.아마도 내가 잘못 읽고 있는 것 같아?샌디조지아 (토크) 21:34, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
인신공격인 줄 몰라?정신 차려.한때 특집 기사로 오인된 주요 사스 기사조차 바이러스의 활동과 그것들이 질병으로 어떻게 전환되는지에 대해서는 서술하지 않는다.RexxS는 나에게 바이러스학자의 출처를 알려야 한다고 말했는데, 그것은 사실이 아니다.우리는 이 질병의 병리학을 기술하기 위해 기본적인 폐 기능의 전문가에게 의존하지 않을 것이며, 그것은 정확히질병의 측면을 기술하기 위한 문제의 분야의 전문가인 것이다.그래서 내가 두 번 말했다면 다시 한 번 사과하는 게 좋겠어, RexxS, 너는 그 주제에 대해 무엇이 전문가인지에 대해 무슨 말을 하는지 몰라.다른 건 없었어?아 그래 있었다.심각한 결핍증을 가진 물건.당신의 의견은 무엇인가?오, 그 전문가 정보는 나한테는 충분히 전문가답지 않아...12년 전부터 위키피디아를 편집하셨잖아요.나는 그 기사를 두 번 수정했고, 한 번 수정하고 한 번 되돌렸다.나를 자극하려고 하지 마.너는 다른 모든 사람들이 토론에서 가지고 있는 것처럼 앞으로 나아가기 위해 협력하고 있는 것이 아니다.내 제안에 문제가 없다는 것을 받아들이지 않으려 한다면, 당신은 그것을 만들려고 하는 것이고, 이것이 적절한 장소가 될 것이다.~ R.T.G 21:39, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
그건 도움이 안 돼, RTG. 출처가 MEDRS 표준을 준수하는지 확인해.그게 진짜 이유야.El_C 21:41, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
"...전쟁을 편집한다"?그것은 실이 아니에요.나는 그 원천이 완전히 고품질의 출판 자원이 아니라는 것에 동의하지만, 인터넷에는 이것이 있어야 할 부정적인 공간이 있다.나는 아무것도 강요하려는 것이 아니라, 그러한 결핍 앞에서 공상적일 것 같지 않은 소스를 사용하는 것이 적절할 수 있다고 주장하려고 한다.위키피디아에 숨는 곳이 없어야 한다. 이 경우 내 견해다.이 물건들은 어디 있지, 지금쯤이면 출처조차 필요없으니 충분히 상식적으로 알 수 있을 거야.솔직히, 비디오를 보고 그것이 무엇을 의미하는지 배워라.간단한 일이야 ~ R.T.G 21:47, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 됐어.너는 이것이 선택사항이라는 오해를 받고 있는 것 같다.그것은 아니다.규칙에 따라 편집해야 한다.그렇게 간단하다.El_C 21:49, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
"...그런 결핍 앞에서 공상적일 같지 않은 소스를 사용하는 것이 적절할지도 몰라."아니, 위키피디아에 관한 의학 정보에 그런 소스를 사용하는 것은 적절하지도 않고, 결코 적절하지도 않다.MEDRS를 준수하는 소스를 찾거나 정보를 추가하지 마십시오.그것이 너의 제안의 문제점이다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 21:54, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
반복한다, 우리는 WP를 떠날 수 있다.MEDRS는 이에 포함되지 않는다. 그 출처는 심지어 WP 수준까지 올라가지 않는다.일반 '올레 RS'에 대한 SPS.그리고 CDC와의 기만적인 연결고리는 시청자들을 CDC 비디오라고 생각하게 만들면서 문제가 되고 있다.내가 이 글을 처음 봤을 때, 나는 우리가 새로운 편집자 실수에 대해 이야기하고 있다고 생각했다; 슬프게도, 우리는 그렇지 않다.샌디조지아 (토크) 22:02, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
(분쟁 편집) 유튜브에 의해 "CDC에 대한 기만적인 링크"가 추가되는 것 같다; 나에게 그것은 캐나다 건강과의 "기만적인 링크"이다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 22:06, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 El C와 Ivanvector뿐만 아니라 SandyGeorgia에 동의한다.'세계 1위 체중감량 외과의사 두크 뷔옹 박사, 13권의 저자가 코로나바이러스가 희생자를 어떻게 죽였는지 설명한다'는 유튜브 영상은 위키백과 어디에서도 사용해서는 안 된다.에버그린피르(토크) 22:05, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
훌륭한 근원이 많이 있다.우리는 그것들을 간단하게 사용할 필요가 있다.유튜브는 좋은 자료가 아니다.Doc James (대화 · 기여 · 이메일) 22:06, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
@RTG: 정보원은 정책을 준수해야 한다... 나머지는 그저 ... 소리나 분노에 불과하고 아무 의미도 없다.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 22시 7분 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
의사도 없고, 쉽게 구할 수 있는 사람도 없으니, 할 수 있다면, 부탁해.나는 내가 원하는 것을 얻을 것이다...~ R.T.G 22:09, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP에 따르면MEDRS(WP와 동일하지 않음):RS, 일차적인 원천은 스스로 출판된 경험이다.이건 그런 게 아니에요.이차적 출처는 주제에 대한 요약과 현재 이해의 개요 등이다.그것이 바로 이것이다.이것은 합성된 재료가 아니다.이것은 위키백과가 달리 부족한 사스(SARS)를 어떻게 유발하는지에 대한 현재의 이해를 개괄적으로 보여주는 것이다.그래서 만약 여러분이 실수하는 것에 가까이 있다면, 일반적으로 유튜브에 대한 어떤 문제 때문에, 글쎄요, 어떻게 할 수 있을까.위키피디아에서 나오는 바이러스에 대한 이해를 갖지 말자.전문가만이 이해할 수 있을 정도로 전문가다운 주제의 시간을 갖자.그것을 달성하기 위해 어떤 패러디에도 새로운 액션을 요구하지 않을 것이다. ~ R.T.G 22:09, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:SwissArmyGuy가 내 소셜 미디어 계정을 계속 요청하고 이유를 알려주지 않음

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 오늘 단 한 번도 대화한 적이 없는 사용자로부터 이메일을 받았어. 하지만 혼자만 존재한다는 것을 알고 있었어.사용자:스위사르미구이가 나에게 노르웨이에서 코로나바이러스 대유행을 검토할 수 있는지 문의하는 위키피디아 이메일을 보냈다.하고 대답하고 나서 나는 의술이나 질병 등에 대한 훈련이 되어 있지 않기 때문에 그가 무슨 말을 하는지 몰랐다고 말했다.조금 후에, 그는 나에게 다른 이메일을 보냈지만, 위키피디아 이메일은 아니었다.그는 나에게 페이스북이나 트위터와 같은 소셜 미디어 계정이 있는지 물었다.내가 '불협화음'만 쓰고 왜 이런 계정을 원하냐고 물었더니 구체적인 대답을 하지 않았다.그 후, 그는 나에게 인스타그램 계정이 있는지 묻는 이메일을 또 보냈다.한다고 했는데 아는 사람만 따라오게 했다.그는 인스타그램에 팔로우 요청을 보냈는데, 아직 수락하지 않았는데, 그래야 할지 모르겠다.소름끼치는 일이어서 이 자리를 만들기로 했다.

증거: [redacted] --эрк (トークペジ) 14:11, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

Kingerikthesecond, AN/I에 대해 보도할 때 다른 편집자에게 알려야 한다는 점을 상기시켜주게, 지금은 그렇게 해 주겠지만 앞으로는 꼭 그렇게 해 주길 바란다.크레펫 (토크) 14:16, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 하지만 어떻게 해야 할지 잘 모르겠어. --эрк (トークペジ) 14:17, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
Nvm은 방금 이 페이지의 빨간 상자를 보았다.이제 통지할 방법을 알게 되었다. --ээр ( (ククペページ) 14:21, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[답답답]
사용자:Kingerikthe Second, 내가 더 이상 진행하기 전에 두 가지 사항: a. 더 이상 여기에 이러한 링크를 게시하지 마십시오. b. 사용자 이름이 서명에 어떻게 표시되는지 알 수 없다.나로서는 그런 변장을 쓰는 것이 시원치 않다.감사합니다.드레이미스 (대화) 14:46, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
드레이어스, 내 키릴릭스는 좀 없지만, 내 생각엔 샬롯이 에릭/에릭에게 번역해 주는 것 같아.대단하지는 않지만, 확실히 더 나쁜 모습을 보였어. 크레펫 (토크) 14:52, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
바로 그거야왜 내 프로필에 연결만 되면 안 되는지 모르겠어. --KingErikII(トークページ) 14:53, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
킹리크테초, 나는 키릴어를 읽을 수 없다. (크레펫, 내가 이제 "에릭"이라는 이름이 그 안에 있다는 것을 알게 된 것은 너의 논평 때문일 뿐이다.)이것은 영어 위키 입니다.내가 여기 보고서를 훑어볼 때, 나는 어떤 링크들을 어디에 연결하는지 보기 위해 모든 링크들 위로 마우스를 올리지 않을 것이다.서명을 변경하십시오.이제 바꿨구나. 좋아, 고마워.WP를 위반하셨습니다.OUT. 개인 증거가 있는 경우 ArbCom을 항상 이메일로 보내거나 관리자에게 문의하십시오.드레이미스 (대화) 15:06, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 내 실수에 대해 정말 미안해, 그리고 앞으로 이것을 꼭 기억하도록 할게.서명도 바꿨어. --킹에릭II (トークページ) 15:05, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
사용자:SwissArmyGuy, 무슨 일이 있었는지 설명해 주시겠습니까?드레이미스 (대화) 14:46, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
글쎄, 내 주장에 대한 증거를 어떻게 제시해야 할까?내 서명은 네가 원한다면 바꿀 수 있어. --эрр(トークペー) 14:48, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 WP를 하지 않는다.가 코로나바이러스 기사를 제안하는 계정을 이메일로 보낼 때, 그가 유튜브와 인스타그램에서 활동을 하지 않는 동안, 그가 '불협화음'만을 사용했을 때, 나는 소셜 미디어를 요청했다.내가 그에게 인스타그램에 팔로우하라고 할 때, 구체적으로 하지 않는다.얼마 전 일은 정말 미안하다. --스위사르미구이 (대화) 14:58, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 가장 많이 사용하는 소셜미디어 계정은 불협화음, 레드딧, 유튜브다.인스타그램 계정은 있는데 별로 활성화되지 않았어.너는 왜 내 소셜 미디어 계정을 원하는지 이유를 알려주지 않았어.나는 너를 알지 못하며, 너와 얘기한 적도 없어.왜 인타그램에서 나를 따라오려고 했니? --킹에릭II (トークページ) 15:01, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SwissArmyGuy, 우리는 소셜 미디어 사이트가 아니다.난 왜 네가 모르는 사람을 때리기 시작하는 게 괜찮다고 생각하는지 이해가 안 가.만약 사용자가 당신에게서 듣고 싶지 않다고 말하고, 당신에게서 계속 듣는다면, 그것은 괴롭힘이고, 또한 당신의 이메일 시스템의 남용이다.그렇게 간단하다.드레이미스 (대화) 15:05, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 그럼 고마워, 그러니까 중재위원회에 연락해서 내가 무슨 짓을 했는지 볼게. --스위사미구이 (대화) 15:08, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
마지막으로, 나는 이미 중재위원회에 이메일을 보냈고 위키미디어의 신뢰와 안전. --스위사르미구이 (대화) 15:11, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
지금 이 실을 어디로 가져가야 할지 모르겠다. --킹에릭II(トークページ) 15:13, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
내가 트와일라잇 존에 들어간 것 같아: 스위스애미구이, 가 왜 ArbCom에 연락을 했는지 모르겠어.내가 에게 필요한 것은 "내가 망친 것을 이해한다, 내가 망친 것을 이해한다, 그리고 다시는 그러지 않을 것이다"와 같은 말을 하는 것이다.나는 또한 왜 당신이 신뢰와 안전이라는 이메일을 보냈는지 이해할 수 없다: 당신은 사생활 보호 정책의 반칙이었습니다.사용자:Kingerikthe Second, 당신이 할 일은 아무것도 없다.나는 증거를 보았고 나는 SwissArmyGuy가 어떤 논리적인 설명을 해주기를 기다리고 있다.또는 ArbCom이 실제로 이메일을 받은 경우 개입을 선택할 수도 있다.드레이미스 (토크) 15:26, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 협조해줘서 고마워. --킹에릭II (トークページ) 15:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
정말 고마워, 나는 위키미디아 재단의 법률팀에 연락해서 미성년자나 다른 누군가를 위험에 빠뜨리는 사람이 있어.이 안내서를 따르려면 위키백과를 참조하십시오.젊은 편집자를 위한 안내. --SwissArmyGuy (토크) 15:36, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 포스트의 어떤 것도 이해하지 못하겠다, SwissArmyGuy, 그것은 정말 일관성 있는 영어가 아니다.당신은 당신의 사용자 페이지에서 당신이 영어 원어민이라고 말한다.그게 정말 정확한가? --Floquenbeam (대화) 15:44, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 하지만 불행히도 나는 다국어야. --스위사르미구이 (대화) 15:50, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
뭐라고?슬래터스트븐 (대화) 15:52, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 다국어지만 영어를 유창하게 말한다. --스위사르미구이 (대화) 15:55, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
다국어로는 위의 횡설수설 어떻게 설명하시는지요, 헝가리어 문구를 이용해서 영어를 배우셨나요?슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 15:57, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
내 게시판은 장어로 가득해! 크레펫 (토크) 16:01, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 문장을 빤히 쳐다보며 말이 되기를 기다리고 있을 뿐이다.다시 시작합시다.SwissArmyGuy는 Kingerikthesecond에 소셜 미디어 정보를 요청한 이유와 ArbCom, Trust and Safety, 그리고 이제 Wikimedia 법무팀에 연락한다고 말한 이유를 (명확하고 상세하게) 설명하십시오.이를 위해서는 공정한 설명이 필요할 것이다.크레펫(토크) 15:54, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 내일 설명해줄게. --스위사르미구이 (대화) 15:56, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 예방차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단차단 버킷(토크) 15:58, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 당신이 SwissArmyGuy I agreement를 의미한다면, 이것은 마치 그들 자신을 위키백과 홈즈를 가리킨 사람처럼 읽힌다.누가 문제를 식별했는지는 이제 여기서나 밖에서나 추적할 것이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 16:05, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 선을 넘은 것 같아여기서의 분쟁은 여기에 머물러야 한다. 버킷(토크) 16:06, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 많은 주의에서 스위스의 ArmyGuy를 무기한 차단했다.미안하지만, 그들의 설명은 도저히 이해가 안 돼.프로젝트에서 미성년자들의 잠재적인 괴롭힘은 무시하기에는 너무 심각하기 때문에, 이번 사건은 이 시점에서 이러한 행동을 요구한다고 생각한다.El_C 16:18, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

이 실은 이제 닫아야 할 것 같아. --킹에릭II (대화 페이지) 16:38, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

가가비나시 보고 제이워드한009

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

WP에서 이동:AIV
– ~ ToBeFree (토크) 17:10, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

Jaywardhan009(대화 기여 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 로그 필터 로그 사용자 차단 로그) – On Mukesh Sahani:사용자가 자동 이동 권한을 가지고 있다.그는 좋은 스타일을 가진 기사를 만들고 단지 외부 링크만을 참고자료로 추가하는 것이 아니다.그가 만든 글은 검토자가 검토하고 고쳐야 한다.나는 많은 기사를 수정했지만 고칠 것이 많고 그는 기사를 매우 자주 만들고 있다.가르가비나시 (대화) 16:05, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

보리발리 - Surat MEMU는 전혀 관계없는 출처를 가지고 있었다; 심지어 주제의 이름조차 어떤 출처에서도 언급되지 않았다.가르가비나시 (대화) 18:39, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그들이 기사를 만드는 것을 멈추고 기존의 기사들이 가지고 있는 문제에 관심을 가져야 한다고 말하고 싶다.모두 합쳐서 "자그시시시 처드하리는 인도의 정치인이다. 1977년과 1980년 다르방가 시골에서 1990년 자나타 의원 선거 때보다 자나타 당원으로 비하르 입법부에 당선됐다." 눈에 띄어도 솔직히 이해할 수 없다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 19:51, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 블랙 카이트의 의견에 동의하며, 문자 그대로 이미일부로 {{blp 소스} 템플릿으로 스텁을 만들어 내는 사람이 그러한 스텁을 만들어서는 안 되며 자동 회전 깃발을 가지고 있어서는 안 된다고 주장할 것이다. --Kinu c/ 21:42, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그들에게 경고를 남겼지만, 그들이 29,000개의 편집에서 user_talk 네임스페이스를 26번만 편집했다는 것을 고려할 때 그들이 관여할 것이라고 확신하지 않는다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 23:57, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
@검은 연:제이워드한009가 2017년 쿠드풍에 의해 자동 조종 허가를 받은 것을 보니, 그를 속였다.나는 그 기사들 중 몇 가지를 살펴봤고, 그것들이 인도 과목의 전기에서 유감스럽게도 흔한 것보다 더 조리가 서지 않는다는 것에 동의할 수 없다. 문장 구성(실수어 등) 외에도, 내가 잘 알지 못하는 사람들에게 의미가 분명하지 않은 연관된 적절한 이름과 사건들이 뭉쳐 있는 경향이 있다.ndian 정치 등당신이 편집자의 토크 페이지에서 강조했던 세 가지 예 중 나는 Mukesh Sahani를 꽤 잘 이해한다고 생각하지만, 그것은 복사가 필요하며, Redlinked 카테고리를 가지고 있다; Upendra Prasad는 더 심각하게 영어에 골절되어 있지만 나는 문제를 추측할 수 있다, 그러나 나는 BLP 소스 태그로 BLP를 만드는 것에 동의한다.첨부된 y는 그들의 기사 작성에 심각한 문제를 나타낸다. 그리고 다시 한번, 나는 자그시쉬 처드하리는 복사가 필요하지만 그것을 충분히 이해한다고 생각하지만, 세 가지 중에서 가장 걱정되는 것은 지금 처음이며, 원래 마지막인 언급이 분명히 그 사람이 죽었다고 말하고 있기 때문이다(그리고 사망 날짜를 알려준다).살아 있는 사람으로서 그를 내세우는 것.나는 제이워드한009가 또한 OP의 게시물에 언급된 것처럼 오해의 소지가 있는 출처를 사용하고 있는지 모르지만, 나는 그들의 자동 조종된 권리는 이 시점에서 당겨져야 한다고 생각한다. 그들의 기사는 확인되어야 한다.Yngvadottir (대화) 02:32, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답하라]

친애하는 팀에게, 나는 위키피디아에 관한 모든 활동을 그만둘 것이다. 그래서 걱정할 필요가 없다.사이트에서 모든 관련 문서를 제거하십시오.Jaywardhan009 (대화) 09:28, 2020년 4월 12일 (IST)

@Jaywardhan009:"현장에서 모든 관련 기사를 삭제해달라"는 말은 실제로 무슨 뜻인가?가르바비나시(토크) 05:05, 2020년 4월 12일(UTC)[응답하라]
이후 사용자:Jaywardhan009는 이러한 우려에 대해 실질적인 답변을 하지 않았으며, 현재 자동 추적 권한을 삭제한 사례가 있다.제대로 된 일을 하지 않는 기사 작자들은 평론가들에게 불합리한 부담을 안긴다.에드존스턴 (대화) 17:27, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

엘크리버러브이 보고한스나케오Bwb

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

WP에서 이동:AIV
– ~ ToBeFree (토크) 18:13, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

Elkrivermr (토크 기여 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 로그 필터 로그 차단 사용자 블록 로그) 나는 종교적으로 동기 부여된 편집이 의심스럽다.나는 제프리 룬드그렌에 대해 토론이 있었기 때문에 위키피디아에만 등록한 새로운 사용자인데, 그의 페이지는 누군가가 그 페이지를 참조할 때쯤 편집되었다는 것을 알게 되었다.그래서 나는 변화를 되돌렸고, 이것은 결국 편집전쟁으로 끝났다.올바른 일을 하려다 금지당하고 싶지 않고 올바른 행동 방침이 무엇인지에 대한 관리자의 판단에 맡기려고 하니 이제는 변화 되돌리기를 그만두겠다. ElSnakeoBwb(대화 기여) 18:03, 2020년 4월 12일(UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 사전 서명되지 않은 논평

나는 분명한 이유로 그들 둘 다 REFET에서 보고했다.클루스케 (대화) 18:22, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

이것이 변화의 원천이다: https://murderpedia.org/male.L/l1/lundgren-jeffrey-don.htm "룬드그렌과 약 20명의 추종자들은 후일 예수 그리스도의 재편성 교회에서 이탈했다." 변화는 적절하고 정확했다. 즉시 편집 전쟁을 중단하라 — 엘크리버머서명되지 않은 논평 (토크 • 대화)에 앞서서.기여) 18:41, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

Murderpedia는 사용자가 만든 콘텐츠로, 따라서 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 아니다.클루스케(토크) 19:05, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

마지막 두 개의 요약 편집을 표시 안 함 요청

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


여기여기에 잘못된 버퍼를 붙여넣었다. Facepalm 페이스팜.어떤 친절한 관리자가 요약 편집 내용을 감독해 주시겠습니까?토드스트1(토크) 20:34, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

. 고마워.Toddst1 (대화)20:57, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Mavi Gözlü Kel의 파괴적 편집

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


사용자 Mavi Gözlü Kel(토크 · 기여)은 터키어 위키백과 링크를 출처[15]로 사용하려 하고, 반복적으로 되돌린 편집 내용을 복권하여 설명[16][17]으로 되돌리고 대신 나의 대담 페이지[18] --Havsjö (토크) 10:54, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]에 모욕적인 글을 쓴다.

인신공격과 업무방해로 72시간 동안 차단El_C 10:59, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

벨기에 IP 사용자의 지속적인 인종차별 및 파괴적 편집

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


거의 1년 동안 IPV6 2A02:1811:8415의 지속적인 파괴적 편집과 노골적인 인종차별적 파괴 행위가 있었다.CA00:/64.몇 개의 IPV4도 있는데, 예를 들어, 오늘날 109.129.103.46이 활성화되었고, 며칠 전 178.118.223.172가 활성화되었다.모든 편집은 명백한 패턴을 가진 동일인으로부터 온 것으로 보인다.때로는 도움이 되는 편집을 시도하기도 하지만, 거의 그렇지 않고, 협력적으로 일할 수 없는 것 같다.가장 우려되는 것은 인종차별주의, 동성애 혐오, 이슬람 혐오 분열과 공공 기물 파괴의 역사다.그들은 공공 기물 파손, 인신공격, 편집 전쟁 등과 같은 많은 경고를 받았다. 예를 들면 [19]와 몇 개의 짧은 블록.

IPV6 범위는 Antwerp 기사의 파괴적 편집을 위해 2주 블록에서 새로 시작한다.그들은 즉시 같은 편집을 다시 시작했다.이러한 특별한 편집은 어느 정도 장점이 있을 수 있지만, 내가 설명했음에도 불구하고 그들은 토크 페이지를 사용할 필요가 있다(사용자 대화:IamNotU#Antwerp and Berlin trolling)는 거절했고, 그들은 다른 편집자들과 함께 오늘 그들이 했던 편집 전쟁 ([20]을 계속 할 것이라고 말했다.

아래의 예 외에도, 「자매 도시」, 「한국」을 「한국」으로, 「중국」을 「메인랜드 차이나」로, 그 밖에 몇 가지 대표적인 변화(예: [21], [22])를 포함하여, 「자매 도시」, 인구통계 인포박스, 파이 차트 등의 목록에서, 반복적으로, 교란적으로 국가명을 변경함으로써 사용자를 식별할 수 있다.[23], [24] 및 기타 수십 개의 기사에 수록되어 있다.

노골적인 인종차별주의, 동성애 혐오, 이슬람 혐오 붕괴 및 공공 기물 파괴의 예는 다음과 같다.

  • [25](IPv6), [26](109.129.103.46, 3월 5일 업무방해로 차단) - 조지비니 툰지에 대한 인종차별적 반달리즘.
  • [27] - 109.109.198.46부터의 동성애 혐오 인신공격.
  • [28], 또한 91.181.93.16부터 노골적인 인종차별주의 반달리즘을 국가 이름으로, 수리남을 "블랙 피트 컨트리"로 바꾸는 등.
  • [29] - 모로코와 터키의 국기를 ISIS 국기로 대체한다.81.246.215.59: [30]에서 다음 날 편집한다.
  • 벨기에의 모로코인에서는 IPV6이 "Notable People"을 "Notable Teople"로 변경[31]하고 "Notable Drug gangs"를 109.129.103.46으로 변경한다.
  • [32] - IPV6, "파키스탄"으로의 노골적인 반달리즘 외에도 수니파/시아파/등등의 변화다.이슬람은 살라피즘에, 모든 파키스탄인들이 극단주의자라는 것을 암시하려는 의도였다.이것은 다른 기사에서도 흔히 볼 수 있는 패턴이다.
  • [33], [34] - IPV6는 또한 살라피즘을 추가하여 벨기에/네덜란드에서 모든 모로코인이 극단주의자임을 시사한다 - 편집 요약(예: 그들의 실제 정체성, 모로코 살라피스가 유럽인을 어떻게 대하는지, 그리고 109.129.103.46: [35] 약에 중독된 베르베르 네덜란드인에 대한 그들의 종교를 추가했고, 오늘도 [36]
  • [37], [38], [39], 91.181.93.16 (12월 파행 편집 차단) 반복적으로 수니파를 모로코 종교의 살라피즘으로 바꾼 다음 IPV6: [40]에서 같은 편집으로 수정한다.

--IamNotU (대화) 04:23, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

레인지 차단 한 달.El_C 05:47, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:112.213.208.70

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


익명 사용자가 반복적으로 WP를 위반함:특정 국가의 코로나바이러스 관련 기사는 토크 페이지의 NOTFORUM:

분명히, 이러한 잘못된 발언을 삭제하는 것은 아무런 효과가 없다.그리고 나는 이 사용자들이 그들의 토크 페이지에 경고하는 것 역시 아무런 효과가 없을 것이라고 생각한다.

분명히 내가 이 사용자의 심리 상태나 배경에 대해 어떤 언급을 하는 것은 잘못되었을 것이다. 하지만 나는 그들이 다른 모든 사람들에게 하는 것과 같은 규칙들이 그들에게 적용된다고 확신한다.클론다이케53226 (대화) 22:58, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

WP처럼 보인다.사용자DOK 블록 회피:Monster_Return; 동일한 수준의 통신, 그 사용자의 다른 양말은 코로나바이러스 수치에 대한 관심을 공유한다.OhNoitsJamie 00:11, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그가 양말인지 아닌지는 확실하지 않지만, 분명히 도움이 되기 위해 여기 온 것은 아니다.한 달 동안 차단됨.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 01:05, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

가장 예상치 못한 블록, 그리고 뒤따르던 서신들이

어젯밤 는 이 블럭을 넘어서는 습한 암탉처럼 화가 났다 [41] 내 의도는 여기서 그것을 다시 조사하려는 것이 아니라, 내가 정말로 제안된 대로 그렇게 둔감한 적이 있었는지, 차단 관리자가 적절하게 행동했는지를 묻는 것이다.나는 내 설명에 진실성을 갖기 위해 몇 번이고 시도했다.사용자 토크 페이지 [42]에서 중단되는 토론을 보고 ANI에 보고하였다.결국 양쪽 모두 차단되었지만, 그 전에 나는 RheieWater2005(토크 · 기여)의 편집 내용을 일부 따랐고, 이 편집본을 [43] 기물 파손으로 오인했다.나는 몇 번이나 되돌리려 했고, 봇에 의해 그렇게 할 수 없게 되어 그대로 내버려두었다.몇 시간 후 나는 일주일 동안 차단되었다.그 문장은 Drmies에 의해 감형되었다.

내가 믿을 수 없는 것은 내가 양말 노릇을 하고 있다는 차단 행정관의 확신이었다.그건 아마도 확인될 수 있었을 것이다.내 편집 이력이 한시도 검토되지 않은 것 같다. 사실 내 편집 이력에 정통한 관리자가 내 변호인을 찾아와서 조언을 받았다. 그리고, 나는 새로운 관리자인 @ToBeFree: 반반달리즘 IP가 되는 것과 사생 양말이 되는 것은 상호 배타적이지 않다는 것을 주목하겠다. 그래서 나는 "반반항원주의"에 근거한 맹목적인 방어가 상호 배타적이라고 확신할 수 없다.그들은 또한 오리 규칙이 이것이 양말을 빌어먹는 것이거나, 양말 행동의 전형적인 "거짓 깃발" 재생산이라는 것을 암시하는 것 같다고 언급했는데, 이것은 그 자체로 잘 알려진 LTA 양말 행동이다.이쯤 되자, 내게는 분명해졌고, 그 후의 대화는 나에게 유리한 고지를 해결할 수 있는 어떤 말도 할 수 없다는 것을 확인시켜 주었다.나는 그 관리자에게 내 토크 페이지에서 계속하지 말라고 여러 번 부탁했지만 소용이 없었다.나는 나를 아는 몇 명의 행정관들에게 도움을 청했다; 그들 중 한 명은 내가 '실제'인 생활을 하고 있다는 것을 알고 있었고, 그것은 내가 무언가 언더핸드 스팅에 관여하고 있다는 비난을 더 많이 만들었다.굴욕적이었고, 마침내 차단을 풀어달라는 요청을 했는데, 여기서 15년 넘게 그런 일을 강요당했던 건 처음이야.그 블록은 밤새도록 유지되었다.

내가 제안했듯이, 나는 긴 토론이나 논쟁을 벌이기 위해 이것을 게시하지 않을 것이다.하지만 이것은 나를 짜증나게 했다.블록이 맞지 않았다고 생각하고, 길이가 맞지 않았다고 생각하고, (지옥처럼) 토론이 옳았다고 생각하지 않는다고 확신한다.내가 기지를 벗어나면 빨리 닫아줘.고마워. 73.186.215.222 (대화) 02:30, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

  • IP의 토크 페이지에서 말한 것 이상으로 덧붙일 것이 별로 없다.편집 필터를 반복적으로 트리거하는 IP 플래그가 AIV에서 플래그 지정되었다.그들이 만든 편집은 그들의 SPI 페이지에 양말로 만든 편집본을 다시 설치하고 있었다.SPI 페이지에 적용할 수 없는 컨테이너 범주를 추가하는 편집 자체가 터무니없었다.그것은 양말 자체나 우리가 보는 "허위 깃발" 사이비 도킹 행동의 유형으로부터 분명히 의심스러운 파괴적 편집으로 나를 놀라게 했다.일단 IP가 실수라고 말하자, 나는 그 블록이 잘못되었다면 기꺼이 차단을 해제할 것이라는 것을 그들이 알고 있는지 확인하기 위해 내 길을 나섰다.나는 단지 의심스러운 행동이라고 생각되는 구체적인 것들을 분명히 말했을 뿐이고, 그들의 설명을 요구했다.그들의 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있듯이, 나는 그들이 잘못되었다고 주장하는 이러한 혼란에 간단히 대답해 준다면 차단해제를 하겠다고 반복해서 말했고, 그들은 반복적으로 거절하여, 그들의 토크 페이지에서 나를 "금지"할 정도로 말했다.내 답변에서 알 수 있듯이, 나는 그들이 상황을 간단히 설명하기를 거절하는 것에 당황했다.나는 그들에게 비합리적이거나 공격적이거나 가혹한 것이 아니라, 단지 내가 수상하다고 생각하는 것들이 왜 합리적인 설명을 가지고 있는지 설명해 달라고 부탁했을 뿐이다.그들은 나의 간단한 질문에 대답하지 않았다.결국 드레이즈는 그들의 결백을 액면 그대로 받아들이면서 그들을 막아버렸고, 내 질문은 결코 대답되지 않았다.괜찮아, 다른 행정관은 내 걱정을 공유하지 않았고, 별일 아니야.비록 IP가 내가 그들에게 너무 많은 시간을 줬다고 느끼더라도, 나는 왜 그들이 나의 우려에 간단히 대답하지 못하는지 이해하기가 힘들다.아마도 그들은 차단된 사용자로부터 이해할 수 있는 나에게 화가 났을 것이다.그럼에도 불구하고 나는 내가 잘못했다고 느끼지 않는다, 나는 그저 블록으로 이어진 것을 설명하고, 블록을 '눈이 부시게' 풀지 말고 그들의 이야기를 들어달라고 했다.안녕 ~스왑~ 2020년 4월 10일 02:52 (UTC)[응답]
  • 응, 미안해, 좀 늦었는데 다음날 아침에도 네가 막아서 깜짝 놀랐어.몇 번의 시도에도 경고가 없는 일주일간의 블록은, 분명히 긍정적인 편집이 몇 톤이나 있은 후, 약간 엄격하다, 그렇다.무리야, 내 생각엔 이 편집장이 너와 나만큼 오래 있어왔고, 그들의 자존심이 심각하게 상했다는 거야.즉, 그들에게 명백해 보이는 것을 그들이 설명하기를 원했다는 것, 그것은 도움이 되지 않았다.당신의 질문에 대해서는, 대답된 것 같은데, 이 편집자를 5, 6년 전부터 알고 있었소?그래, 난 그들의 말을 믿었어. 게다가 내게 일어난 일은 꽤 분명해 보였어.드레이미스 (토크) 02:57, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • FWIW, IP의 토크 페이지에 대한 빠른 리뷰로부터:
    • 나는 왜 IP가 아직 그의 질문에 대답하지 않았다고 생각했는지 약간 어리둥절하다.나는 그가 가지고 있다는 것이 꽤 분명해 보였다.
    • IP가 왜 "라고 반복해서 말하는 대신 (이미 그가 내준) 질문에 대한 답을 다시 말하기만 하지 않았는지 좀 어리둥절하다.그 이유를 이미 말했소."
예시 34,5124번은 이 불완전한 의사소통 매체에 대해 두 명의 선의의 편집자가 오해하고 조금이나마 등을 돌릴 수 있는 방법. --Floquenbeam (대화) 03:00, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 Floquenbeam에 동의한다.초기 블록은 완전히 이해하지만 IP가 상당히 합리적인 설명을 했다고 생각했다.자우어백dude?/dude.2020년 4월 10일 03:19 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이러한 점을 해소하기 위해 IP가 '설명서'를 제공했다는 점은 인정하지만 설명이 불완전하다는 것을 알게 되었고, 그들의 설명에도 불구하고 내가 가졌던 구체적인 질문으로 답변했다.IP는 분명 그들의 초기 설명이 만족스럽다고 생각했고, 나는 그렇지 않았으며, 초기 설명으로 풀리지 않은 구체적인 질문들을 제시하며 추가 설명을 구했다.IP는 이러한 추가 질문에 대한 답변을 거부했다.나는 나의 추가 질문이 불합리했다고 생각하지 않으며, 또는 제공된 초기 설명으로 답을 얻었다고 생각하지 않는다.만약 이것이 그들의 설명을 무시하는 것으로 인식되었다면, 나는 사과한다, 그러나 그것은 정반대였다.~스왑~03:46, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 우리 모두가 가끔 저지르는 실수에 대해 누구를 때리러 온 것도 아니고, 나도 분명히 연루되어 있지만, 그 설명은 대충 훑어보기만 해도 완벽하게 명쾌했다.지금 다시 읽으면서, 나는 아직도 무슨 말을 더 했어야 했는지 모르겠어.아마도 이제 그 상황을 충분히 이해한 것 같은데, 그 상황이 어떻게 전달될 수 있었는지를 그들이 기꺼이 밝혀낼 수 있을까?스펙트럼 {{UV} 2604:2000:8FC0:4:68BA:3B32:8613:8B6D (대화) 04:09, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 나의 구체적인 질문들이 대답되었으면 좋았을 것이다.내가 이해한 바로는 그 설명이 불완전했다. 그것은 나에게 질문을 남겼기 때문이다.구체적인 미해결 문제로 인한 간단한 후속 설명은 무리한 요구라고 생각하지 않는다.내가 질문을 했어야 했다고 생각하든 말든, 나는 그들에게 선의로 물었다.그들에게 대답하기를 거절하고 그것에 대한 통신을 종료할 이유가 정말 없다.나는 그저 선의로 의사소통을 하고 있었는데, 이용자는 호의에 대한 답신을 거절했다.나는 그것이 어떻게 나를 잘못된 길로 만들었는지 모르겠다.~스왑~{sting}04:46, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 분명히 두 분 모두 여기서 선의의 행동을 하고 있었다고 생각하는데, IP의 토크 페이지에 대한 토론이 그렇게 길었던 것이 이상해 보였던 까닭이다.그런 말을 했으니, 이 ANI 스레드가 지금 무엇을 이루어야 할지 정말 모르겠어.결국 이곳에서는 아무도 잘못을 저지르지 않았고 어떤 조치도 취해지지 않을 것이다.이건 닫을 수 있을 것 같아.자우어백dude?/dude.13:12, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
@Swarm: 같은 목표를 향해 선의의 행동을 하는 합리적인 사람들은 동의하지 않을 수 있고, 나는 당신이 반드시 잘못했다고 말하는 것은 아니다.내가 보았을 때 일이 내게 나타난 것은 이미 대답된 질문을 하는 것 같았고, 그것은 충분히 이해할 수 있는 좌절감에 부딪혔다.아까 내가 찾던 건 네가 신발을 다른 발에 신어보려고 한 거겠지.잠시 역활이 뒤바뀐 척하고 그 상황에서 제시했을 답을 당신이 질문한 질문에 제공하라.그것은 두 사람 사이의 의사소통이 아니라 미래에 더 나은 의사소통을 촉진하기 때문에 도움이 된다.그러나, 나는 그것이 시간이 오래 걸릴 수도 있고, 또한 여기보다는 사용자 대화 페이지에서 더 적절할 수도 있다는 것을 이해한다.스펙트럼 {{UV} 2604:2000:8FC0:4:68BA:3B32:8613:8B6D (대화) 15:06, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 관리자 고글이 없는 사용자에게는 편집 필터가 트리거된 횟수와 편집 필터가 트리거되는 시간과 블록 사이의 시간이 얼마나 경과했는가?레비비치[dubiousdiscuss] 05:39, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

새로운 페이지 검토자의 횡포: 도움을 청하는 외침

위키피디아에 많은 가치 있고 가치 있는 기여를 했음에도 불구하고, 지난 몇 년 동안 새로운 카테고리의 새로운 페이지 검토자들이 생겨났다.요즘 기사를 만들려고 하면 가차없이 폭행을 당한다(아래 참조).나는 이런 조건하에서 위키피디아에 잘 기여할 수 없다.만 개 이상의 편집과 수십 개의 새로운 기사들로 인해 나의 기여는 가치 있고 뒷받침될 만한 가치가 있다.나는 한 때 일본 시 기사의 부분까지 훑어보긴 했지만, 대부분 중국 시와 중국 신화 분야에서 조용히 일해 왔다.그럼에도 불구하고 특정 새 페이지 검토자에 대해서는:

  • 나는 대담하게 새로운 기사를 만들어 내는 것에 대해 모욕과 협박을 받을 가치가 있다고 여겨진다. 예를 들어, Talk:를 참조하라.중국 신화에 나오는 무기와 갑옷.
  • 나는 위키피디아가 다음과 같이 말했다.괄호 참조는 허용이 불가능하고 정책에 반하며, 비록 이것이 특정 유형의 기사(좀 더 학술적이고 전문화된 기사, 즉)에 대한 최선의 관행이 아니지만, 대신 Ref 태그를 사용해야 하며, 그 대신에 그러한 기사들을 편집하기 더 어렵게 만든다(최소한 우리가 실제로 편집을 하는 기사들을 위해), 그리고 그들은 ar결과적으로 덜 만족스럽다.
  • WP:Stub위키백과에도 불구하고:이러한 새로운 페이지 검토자를 참조하는 상위학자는 나에게 "참고자가 없다"고 주장하며, 기사 리드 위에서도 주요 템플릿 왜곡으로 이를 선언해야 한다고 주장한다.
  • 다음과 같이 주장한다: WP:CITE는 "편집자는 단순히 개인적인 선호에 근거하여, 다른 기사와 일치하도록, 또는 먼저 변경에 대한 합의를 구하지 않고 기사의 확립된 인용 방식을 변경하려 해서는 안 된다"는 것을 의미하지 않는다.중재 위원회는 2006년에 다음과 같은 판결을 내렸다.

위키피디아는 많은 다른 영역에서 스타일을 명령하지 않는다; 이것들은 미국식 대 미국식 대 미국식을 포함한다.영국식 철자, 날짜 형식 및 인용 스타일.위키피디아가 특정한 스타일을 요구하지 않는 경우, 편집자들은 위키피디아를 그들 자신의 선호하는 스타일로 바꾸려고 시도해서는 안 되며, 또한 그들이 싫어하는 스타일의 예나 참고문헌을 삭제하는 유일한 목적으로 기사를 편집해서는 안 된다.

철자 차이와 마찬가지로, 의견 일치를 변경하지 않는 한, 첫 번째 주요 기고가 사용하거나 이미 페이지에서 작업 중인 편집자의 합의로 채택된 스타일에 연연하는 것이 일반적인 관행이다.편집 중인 기사가 이미 특정 인용 스타일을 사용하고 있다면, 당신은 그것을 따라야 한다. 만약 그것이 기사의 필요에 적합하지 않다고 생각되면, 토크 페이지에서 변경에 대한 합의를 구하라.기사에 인용을 추가하는 1등 공신인 경우 기사에 가장 적합하다고 생각하는 스타일을 선택할 수 있다.

대신 새 페이지 검토자들은 선호하는 참조 인용 스타일을 사용하여 내가 기사를 그들의 지시에 따라 작성해야 한다고 주장한다.를 들어, 대화:중국 신화에 나오는 나무들.

  • 이 뉴 페이지 리뷰어들은 내가 쓰고 있는 주제 영역(중국어 또는 중국 문화 등)을 잘 모르며 기사 확장에 긍정적인 기여를 하지 않는다. 단지 그들은 매우 파괴적이고 매우 낙담적인 분위기를 조성하며, 위키백과를 개선하려는 나와 다른 편집자들의 시도를 좌절시킨다.
  • 영어에 대한 중국어는 단순한 사전의 경우일 뿐 백과사전적인 이해가 아닐 때 알 수 없는 인용구들을 요구하는 것으로 취급된다.
  • 세 개의 되돌리기 규칙은 새 페이지 검토자가 유리하도록 길들여진다.

새로운 페이지 검토자들의 이러한 횡포를 완화시킬 수 있는 방법이 있을까?내가 쓸데없이 방해받지 않고 기사 작업을 하려고 할 때, 그 내용에 대해 별로 신경쓰지 않는 사람들과 기사들에 대해 이치를 따지기 위해 많은 시간을 보내야 하는 것은 시간 낭비다.이 새로운 페이지 검토 상황은 위키피디아를 매우 중요한 방법으로 해치고 있다.적어도 내가 공감대 지침과 전혀 부합하지 않는 것처럼 보이는 방법으로 부모적 참조를 이용하고 끊임없이 방해받지 않는 위키백과에 기여할 수 있는 방법이 있을까?디카텔 (대화) 23:12, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 내가 만든 기사에 지나치게 편집자들이 와서 고장나지 않은 것들을 고치려 하고 엉망진창으로 만들게 했다.당신이 묘사한 것 중 일부는 인용 방식을 일방적으로 바꾸는 것과 같은 경우에 해당될 것이다.새로운 페이지 검토자들은 그렇게 해서는 안 되며, 그렇게 하기 위해 전쟁을 편집하면 차단될 수 있다.그러나 인용문 요청과 비소싱 콘텐츠 삭제는 방해되지 않는다(물론 이미 인용문이 있는 경우가 아니라면).만약 기사에 출처가 있지만 새로운 페이지 검토자가 선호하는 방식으로 인용되지 않는다면, 그들은 그것을 다루고 다음 기사로 넘어가야 할 것이다.그런데 당신이 좋아할 만한 한 가지는 {{sfn}}이다.그것은 모체 참조의 최첨단 버전이다.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 00:15, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 솔직히, 제한된 동정.당신이 인라인 인용문을 제공하지 않았기 때문에 텍스트의 한 부분을 참조하는 것이 독자(새로운 페이지 검토자 중 하나)에게 불명확하다면, 그 독자는 구체적인 귀속성을 요구하는 것이 정당하다.왜 그냥 제공하지 않는거지?만약 당신이 할 수 없거나 할 수 없다면, 그 물질을 공급받지 않은 것으로 취급하는 것은 불합리한 제안이 아니다.여기서 요점은 저자의 개인적 취향에 따라 독자에게 분명히 귀속된 요약을 제공하는 것이다. - 다시 한 번 언급하자면, 템플릿을 사용할 필요가 없고(있기를 바랬지만), 검토자는 충분히 혼자 남겨두었어야 했지만, Trees에서 무슨 일이 벌어졌는지에 대한 당신의 의견은 옳다. 중국 신화에서 나는 정신적 충격을 주거나 심지어 편집 전쟁을 하는 것으로는 거의 생각하지 않는다.이 멜로 스크래치가 정말 필요한가?--Elmidae (토크 · 기여) 00:44, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP:NPP는 이것을 위한 장소지만, 그것은 사실이다: "당신은 마 로리테이를 존경할 것이다!"는 것은 너무 자주 하는 태도다.
    제 제안은 {{r}}이며, 그 안에page=매개 변수기술 수준이 낮고, 가볍고, 사용하기 쉬우며, {sfn}처럼 연약하지 않으며, 괄호보다 훨씬 덜 거슬린다.EENG 00:45, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 네가 의심하는 유일한 불만족에 대해 NPR이 "이 기사에 대한 수정"을 했다고 비난했잖아.그것은 인신공격이다.그들은 그저 그 일을 하고 있을 뿐이고, 당신은 그들을 일종의 "고정"을 가진 어떤 미친 사람이라고 비난한다.말도 안 돼.누군가는 그저 자기 일을 하고 있을 뿐이고, 그러면 넌 미친 비난으로 그들을 마구 때린다.NPR은 기사 작성자들이 필요에 따라 기사를 고치도록 강요하기 위한 것이다.문제를 보지 못하는 것.~스왑~~2020년 4월 8일 00:54 (UTC)[응답]
  • Dcattell, New Page Purset의 코디네이터로서, 새로운 페이지 검토자들과 불쾌한 경험을 한 적이 있어 유감이다.콘텐츠를 만드는 것은 어렵고 모든 평론가들이 작품을 만드는 일을 존중해 주길 바란다.심지어 그 일이 문제가 있을 때도.대화:중국 신화에 나오는 무기와 갑옷이 나는 한 비평가가 그들이 이슈로 보는 것을 말하고 민감한 문제에서 그렇게 하려고 시도하는 것을 본다.네가 동요했다는 것은 분명하지만 나는 다른 사람들이 위에서 지적했듯이 그들이 그 기사에 집착하게 되었다고 생각하지 않는다.많은 콘텐츠 제작자들을 위한 것으로 알고 있듯이, 나에게 더 많은 이슈는 기사를 쓰는 것과 소유권을 넘기는 것 사이에서 적절한 균형을 맞추는 것이다.콘텐츠 작업을 계속하면서 엥이 위에서 제시한 제안들이 도움이 되었으면 좋겠다.Best, Barkeep49 (대화) 01:12, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Barkeep49, 당신이 새로운 페이지 순찰의 코디네이터인 것처럼 (군국주의의 함의가 있는 "patrol"이라는 단어는 싫지만, 우리는 그것에 집착하고 있는 것 같다) 나는 이것을 당신에게 말하고 있다.너무 자주 나는 새로운 페이지를 검토하는 사람들이 실제로 콘텐츠를 만드는 건설적인 작업을 하는 사람들보다 백과사전의 좋은 기사가 무엇인지에 대한 지식이 훨씬 적다는 것을 발견한다.당신은 이것이 문제라는 것을 인식하고, 그것에 대해 무슨 조치를 취하고 있는가, 아니면 그저 모래밭에 머리를 박고 있는 것인가?필 브리저 (대화) 17:30, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    필 브리저, 우리의 모든 자원 봉사 노력과 마찬가지로 NPP를 위한 몇몇 자원 봉사자들은 다른 자원 봉사자들보다 낫다.이것은 순전히 행정적인 영역에서도 우리의 노력 중 어떤 것에도 적용된다.우리는 확실히 리뷰어의 질을 위해 노력한다.예를 들어 나는 NPP 학교에 NPP 허가를 받은 사람들을 돕기 위해 NPP 멘토링이라고 부르는 "대학원"을 추가했다.나는 또한 큰 성공을 거두지 못한 "peer review" 코호트를 시도했다.등록한 사람들은 대개 최고 수준의 일을 하고 있다고 여겨지는 사람들이었다.우리는 또한 WT에서 진정한 공동체 의식을 창조하기 위해 노력한다.NPR - 지금 그곳에 가면 리뷰어들이 서로 도움을 요청하는 것을 볼 수 있다.
    검토자의 품질을 보장하기 위한 다른 방법은 우리가 누구에게 허락을 주는지 선별하는 것이다.적극적인 NPP인 RosguillWP를 취급해 온 주요 인물이다.PERM/NPR 하지만 일반적으로 Ros와 내가 취하는 접근법은 새로운 평론가들이 PERM에 대한 제한적인 허가 시간을 주는 것이다.이런 식으로 그들이 돌아올 때(희망적으로) 우리는 그때도 피드백을 제공할 수 있다.그러나 이것은 우리가 (내 추정에 있어 백과사전의 핵심에 있는) 콘텐츠 제작자들을 낙담시키고 싶지 않은 것처럼, 우리는 우리의 콘텐츠 제작자들이 불특정 다수를 배제하고, 스팸을 제한하고, 다른 방법으로는 기사들을 준수하도록 함으로써 우리의 콘텐츠 제작자들이 쌓아온 명성을 보호하는 최전선에 있는 NPP를 낙담시키고 싶지 않다.정책 및 지침과 함께.
    바라건대 이것은 우리가 모래에 머리를 박고 있지 않는 방법을 보여주길 바란다.다른 질문/의견/이념에 대해 자유롭게 후속 조치를 취하십시오.그리고 당신이 코디네이터가 될 때 내가 동의한 것 중 하나는 "어려운 대화"를 하는 것이기 때문에 당신은 내 토크 페이지나 이메일을 통해 당신이 가질 수 있는 우려에 대해 자유롭게 내게 알려줄 수 있다.Best, Barkeep49 (대화) 18:19, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    필 브리저 내가 직접 NPP에서 활동적인 사람으로서, 나는 우리가 활동적인 콘텐츠 창조 공동체의 도움을 더 많이 사랑하게 될 것이라고 덧붙인다.정책, 소싱, 그리고 새로운 편집자들이 모르는 모든 작은 것들에 익숙한 다작 작가들이 아마도 훌륭한 평론가가 될 것이라는 데 동의한다.나는 상당한 경험을 가진 사람이라면 누구나 참여해서 상당한 밀린 일을 돕도록 권하고 싶다.GirthSummit (blether) 19:01, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    그 문제는 항상 NPP를 제대로 하려고 하는 편집자들이, 실제로 소스를 보는 것을 포함하여, 시간이 걸리는, 그것을 인종으로 보는 사람들에게 선취당하고, 그래서 그들의 엉성한 순찰이 먼저라는 것이었다.그 과정이 설정되는 전체 방법은 정확성보다 속도를 보상한다.필 브리저 (대화) 19:09, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    필 브리저, 무슨 말인지 알겠어.나는 스스로 느리게 간다 - 내가 3번 이상 복습하는 날들은 거의 없고 멀다. 각 복습마다 적어도 10분, 어쩌면 더 많은 시간이 걸리기 때문이다.하지만 밀린 일들은 항상 배고픈 짐승이다. - 갑판 위에 만들어진 기사들의 수를 처리하고 매번 완벽하게 해내기에 충분한 손길이 없다.이 실마리는 평론가들이 너무 엄격하다는 것에 대한 것이다. 나는 또한 선량한 평론가들이 충분히 엄격하지 않았기 때문에 서투른 비난을 받는 것을 보았다.소수의 사람들이 시간적 압박이 수반되는 상황에서 매번 적절한 균형을 맞추기는 쉽지 않다.다시 말하지만, 많은 손이 가벼운 일을 만든다.줄의 앞쪽이 짜증스러울 정도로 빠른 속도인 것을 발견하면, 뒷쪽 끝이나 가운데에서 일한다.예를 들어, 어떻게 해야 하는지 보여줘.GirthSummit (blether) 19:38, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    나는 일부 NPP가 정확성보다는 속도에 의해 동기부여된다는 것에 동의한다.이것은 항상 낙담되어 왔다.나는 이 논의를 촉발시킨 사건에서 출처를 확인하고 기사를 편집한 두 명의 NPP를 지적하고 싶다.이것은 "드라이브 바이" 수표가 일어나지 않는다는 말이 아니다; 그들은 그렇다.우리는 속도감보다 정확성을 강조하기 위해 노력해왔다.내가 왜 밀린 업무량이 계속 증가함에도 불구하고, 밀린 업무 추진에 대한 전화를 거부했는지를 설명해 주는 것은 이 문제에 대한 나 자신의 걱정이다.내 생각에 그러한 추진력은 우리가 보통은 아닌 방식으로, 속도를 내는 인센티브를 준다.필이 그 정확성에 대한 아이디어를 정말로 중요한 아이디어로 발전시킬 수 있다면 기꺼이 들어주겠다.Best, Barkeep49 (대화) 21:00, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
    [44]--ymblanter (대화) 19:12, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 여기서 답장을 해야 할지 모르겠어.어쨌든 소프트웨어는 내가 답장을 페이지 하단에 넣기로 되어 있다고 말했다.그래서 나는 그렇게 했다.고마워요.디카텔 (대화)20:18, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
그럴 필요는 없었다. 모든 것을 한 곳에 두자.두 구간을 합쳐서… P-K3 (대화) 20:47, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
Dcattell, 당신이 개인적으로 할 수 있는 한 가지 해결책은 초안 네임스페이스에 기사를 작성한 후 당신이 초기 편집을 마친 후에 그것들을 메인 스페이스로 옮기는 것이다.가이 (도움말!) 2020년 4월 9일 11시 16분 (UTC)[응답]

토론

Dcattell의 긴 버전의 우려 사항
  • 내가 도움을 요청한 것에 대해 시기적절하게 답변해줘서 모두 고마워, 모두 다 도움이 돼.나는 또한 지나치게 장황하게 말한 것과 내 감정들이 나의 산문 스타일에 피를 흘리게 한 것에 대해 사과한다.나는 또한 일반적으로 새로운 페이지 검토자들이 위키피디아에서 가치 있는 서비스를 수행한다는 것을 명확히 알지 못한 것에 대해 사과한다. 새로운 페이지 검토자들은 내가 시작한 마지막 몇 기사의 경우에는 전혀 그렇지 않으며, 사실은 그 반대다.나는 또한 약 십여 년 동안 편집해 왔고 내가 마주치는 것은 뭔가 새로운 것이거나 새로운 질서에 있는 것처럼 보인다는 것을 지적하고 싶다. 또한 위키피디아에 대한 정책과 가이드라인을 포함시키고 따르는 것에 대한 실사를 했다고 생각한다(분쟁 해결을 모색하는 정도는 아니지만).uthion). 나는 특정한 프로젝트 가이드라인뿐만 아니라 위키백과 가이드라인에 대한 지식과 준수에 대한 합리적인 존경심을 가져야 한다고 생각한다.나는 WP: 분쟁해결을 읽었지만, 모든 새로운 기사에 대해 이 과정을 거치는 것은 합리적이지 않다: 그것은 기사의 개선에 방해가 된다.나는 여기서 다루어졌지만 해결되지 않은 중요한 문제에 초점을 맞추고 싶다; 그리고 만약 내가 내 마음 속에 좀 더 분명히 있었다면, 내가 먼저 말했어야 했던 것이다.그것은 다음과 같다.
  • 기사 큐레이션 태그를 적용하거나 내용을 논쟁하거나 내용을 삭제하기 전에 실제로 새로운 기사를 읽고 인용한 참조를 확인하도록 요구하는 것은 지나친 요구인가?나는 이것이 내가 시작한 마지막 몇 개의 기사나 짧은 글의 경우에서 이루어지지 않았다는 사실을 알고 있다(기사에 대한 도전은 기사를 처음 게재할 때 최대 1분 또는 몇 분 내에 나타났다: 그러한 수단으로 기사를 훨씬 덜 빠르고 평가한 이 정도의 자료를 읽는 것은 인간적으로 불가능하다).로봇은 핑계가 아니며, 새 기사나 스텁을 재빨리 훑어보는 것은 실제 인용되는 기사에 대해 믿을 만한 참고 자료로 이의를 제기하는 것은 믿을 수 있는 참고 자료와 함께 실제로 인용되는 기사에 도전하는 핑계가 될 수 없다.나는 위키피디아가 적어도 신학적 주제의 다소 학문적이고 전문화된 영역에서 일하는 베테랑 편집자들을 위해 새로운 기사나 기사 스텁에 대한 정책이나 가이드라인을 개발할 것을 요청한다. 새로운 페이지 검토자들이 실제로 기사를 읽고 인용된 참조를 참조하고, 그 후에야 기사 큐레이션 과정이나 d의 과정을 시작할 것이다.명망 있는 자료나는 또한 기사 공간에 기사 큐레이션 태그를 배치하는 것은 위키피디아 정책과 지침과 모순된다고 생각한다. 기사 큐레이션 태그는 분명히 편집 토크 페이지에 속한다.기사의 내용에 이의를 제기하고 인용된 참조가 없다고 주장하는 잘못된 태그를 게시하는 것은 기사에 인용된 참조가 없을 때 단지 잘못된 것이며, 생산적인 것에 역행한다.기사가 1일 미만이고 시작 단계 컨텐츠가 표시되는 것에 대한 적절한 참조가 있는 경우 더 많은 참조를 사용하여 기사가 개선될 수 있거나 개선될 수 있는 태그를 추가하는 것은 기사를 시작하는 편집자와 해당 기사에 대한 협력을 원하는 편집자에게 무례한 행위일 뿐이다.아마도 GA급 기사 외에 내용을 확대하고 참고자료를 추가함으로써 기사를 개선할 수 있다는 것을 우리가 모르는 것으로 추정할 수 있는가?그뿐만 아니라 참고자료가 도전받고 제거되고 있을 때 우리가 기사를 작업하는 것을 단념시킨다.내가 이미 추가한 참조 자료가 내가 추가할 수 있는 것보다 더 빨리 도전되고 제거되고 있는데 어떻게 기사를 개선해야 하는가?이것은 "원래 연구" "또는 "참조되지 않음"이라는 거짓된 이유로 내 신뢰성 있게 참조된 자료가 제거되지 않도록 요구하는 것 외에, 부엌 싱크대를 요청하거나 개별 편집자와 내용 분쟁을 벌이는 것이 아니다.나는 중대한 문제를 제기하고 있다.내가 좀 '애너'라서 불평하는 것이 아니고, 그냥 밀고 나가 전반적으로 올바른 나의 편집 스타일(내 기록에서 볼 수 있듯이)으로 일하는 평소의 관행을 따르겠다.내가 도움을 요청한 이유는 새로운 기사를 시작하고 개발해야 하는 부담이 비합리적인 수준에 이르렀을 정도로 상황이 심각하기 때문이다.적어도 내가 작업하고 있는 전문 분야의 새로운 기사를 시작하는 기준이 너무 높아졌어.새로운 페이지 검토 프로세스가 Talk 페이지에 기사들이 태그되어 있는 Wiki Projects를 기반으로 검토자를 할당할 수 있는가?WP일 경우:중국 및 WP:신화란 어쩌면 우리는 누군가 Chines 신화에 관심을 갖게 할 수도 있고, 우리는 리뷰어가 실제로 기사 내용에 관심을 가지고 인용문을 읽게 할 수도 있고, 어쩌면 그 내용에 기여하게 할 수도 있는데, 그것은 오히려 물질에 도전하고 제거하기 위한 추정적인 구실에 초점을 맞출 수도 있다.아마도 새로운 기사 검토자는 기사와 그 참고문헌을 평가하는 작업이 전문 분야에 대한 지식이나 인라인 각주의 다양한 방법을 사용하는 사람을 필요로 하는 것처럼 보일 경우 전문가에게 리뷰를 전달하도록 권장될 수 있는가?집중적인 기사 검토 절차를 적용하기 전에 참조와 기타 며칠 또는 일주일 전에 새로운 시작 수준의 기사 또는 스텁을 제공하는 것이 타당할 수 있는가?뉴 페이지 리뷰는 항상 기사의 개선을 제안하는 것처럼 가장하여 도전적인 자료를 제거하겠다고 위협해야 하는 것 같아 보이는가?거의 모든 베테랑 편집자들은 참조되지 않은 자료들이 도전받고 제거될 수 있다는 것을 알고 있다: 이러한 위협으로 기사를 광범위하게 다듬을 필요가 있는가? 그리고 그것이 개선을 위한 제안이라고 말한다.기사를 읽고 참고문헌을 참고한 뒤 구체적인 우려사항을 하나하나 짚어보는 것이 좋지 않을까.그리고 만약 이곳이 그 장소가 아니라면, 나의 고민을 해결할 수 있는 곳을 알려줘.
  • 사례 연구: 03:09, 2019년 6월 24일, 나는 8개의 신뢰할 수 있는 참조 자료와 최소한 12개의 인라인 인용 자료 목록을 가지고 중국 신화에서 무기와 갑옷을 시작했다.최고중요기사가 아니라 다소 과중한 부담과 최고중요 중국신화기사의 부담을 줄이는 데 중요하며, 계속하여 기사에 임했다.14:28, 2019년 6월 25일 신규기사 검토자:Hzh는 그 기사가 참조되지 않았다고 주장하고 있으며 자료들에 도전하고 제거하려고 위협하고 있다.그리고 나서 나는 참고문헌을 포함하여 기사를 계속 개선했다.Hzh는 다시 거짓으로 기사에 도전한다.나는 Hzh와 대화를 시작했는데, Hzh는 그 기사에 대한 언급, 원본 연구 등을 포함한 근거 없고 부정확한 주장을 한다.기사의 몇 가지 사소한 부분이 참고문헌을 기다리고 있었지만, 이러한 도전들은 단지 일반적인 이유만으로 이루어진 것이며 (실제로 그러한 주장은 단순히 참고문헌과 주어진 인용문만 참고하면 실패했을 것이기 때문에) 이러한 정책들을 위반하고 근거 없이 무시했다는 이유로 나를 막아버릴 것이라고 위협하고 있다.참조. 11:26, 2019년 6월 27일 사용자:Hzh는 참조된 자료, 특히 비럴, 앤(1993)에 표시된 것처럼 쉽게 체크할 수 있는 약 절반의 항목이 있는 표를 제거한다.중국 신화 (볼티모어: 존스 홉킨스) ISBN0-8018-6183-7, 기사에 나타난 바와 같다.나머지 절반은 버렐의 추천서를 개선하는 것뿐만 아니라 내가 작업하고 있었지만, 나는 그럴 기회를 얻지 못했다.나는 기본적으로 기사에 대한 작업, 전반적인 개선, 내용 추가, 참고자료 추가, 참고자료 개선 등을 중단했다.내가 편집해야 할 환경은 독성이 있다.모든 단계가 가차없이 도전되고 있을 때, 그 도전들은 일반적으로 내용이 부족하고 사소한 개선이나 실제 참고문헌을 통해 쉽게 잠재울 수 있을 때 기사를 개발하는 것은 너무 어렵다.제발!의뢰인을 상담할 수 있기를.믿을 만한 참고자료를 넣었어!그들은 그 기사를 지지한다!나는 Hzhh가 또한 그 글에 검에 대한 중국어 번역을 포함시키는 것에 반대했다고 믿는다.그렇게 하는 것은 WP:China 정책에 반하는 것이고 위키피디아는 사전 정책이 아니다.Hzh의 가장 최근의 위협은 나의 토크 페이지에도 있었고, 또한 Hzh가 새로운 페이지 검토자가 아니라 결코 5가지 이유 없이 자료를 제거하겠다고 위협한 중국 신화의 Trees in Chinese 신화의 기사도 위협했다. 따라서 Original 연구라는 허황된 근거에 있는 아리클일 가능성이 있다(이는 쉽게 D에 대한 참조를 확인할 수 있다).e Groot, J.J.M. (1910 [2003])중국의 종교 제도.제4권케신저 출판사.ISBN978-0-7661-3354-9온라인 사용 가능:드 그로트, J.J.M. (1910/2003) 중국의 종교 제도. 제4권 ISBN 978-0-7661-3354-9 Google Books에서 2020년 4월 7일에 액세스.Hzh 나의 새로운 영구적인 새로운 페이지 순찰을 하는 사람이고, 내가 만든 모든 새로운 기사를 순찰하고, 실제 기사나 기사에 인용된 참고문헌에 관계 없이 가능한 가장 광범위한 조건으로 모든 내용에 도전한다(Hzh는 인정하지 않으려 한다).
  • 이런 상황에서 글을 쓰거나 편집해야 하는 것은 나에게 너무 부담스럽다.나는 일반적으로 위키백과 새로운 페이지 검토자 정책을 좀 개선하고 싶다. 그리고 나는 결국 이 요점들이 다뤄질 것이라고 확신한다. 반드시 내가 그것들을 제기하기 위해 초기 편집자였기 때문은 아니다.
  • 특히, 나는 Hzh가 참조되지 않은 비원래적으로 조사된 자료들을 제거하고 실제로 제거하겠다는 협박을 그만둘 것을 확신하고 싶다.또한 내가 새로 만든 기사마다 Hzh가 나를 따라다니게 하고 나의 토크 페이지에서 그들을 무상으로 위협하는 것은 불합리하다.Hzh의 비판 중 한두 가지는 일부 긍정적인 기사 변화를 낳았지만, Hzh는 "도움이 된다"는 미명 아래 실제로 기사의 각 부분, 즉 한 가지 이유 있는 지면이나 다른 부분에 대해 글을 실었다.사용자 대화로 판단:Hzh, 이 사용자는 정책을 합리적인 제한으로 또는 그 이상으로 추진하는 것을 즐긴다.나는 개인적인 논쟁을 원하지 않는다, 단지 내가 기사에서 하는 모든 것이 거짓된 일반 정책적 근거에 도전받고 도전자는 결코 구체적으로 다루지 않는 이 파괴적인 편집의 대상이 되어서는 안 된다고 생각한다.내 기사가 참조되지 않는다면, 왜 참조가 있는가?내 기사가 인용되지 않는다면 왜 인용문이 있는 거지?인용구들이 그 기사에서 말하는 것을 말하지 않는다면, 왜 구체적인 것은 다루지 않는 것일까?그것은 Hzh나 다른 누군가에게 너무 쉽기 때문에 그들이 연구에 어떠한 관심도 기울이지 않을 때 어떤 것이 독창적인 연구라고 말한다.Hzh는 그 기사에 대한 주장을 뒷받침하는 어떤 언급도 인용한 적이 없다.Hzh가 참조 자료나 어떤 내용에도 이의를 제기하지 않았고 인용된 참조를 확인했으며, 참조가 기사의 한 점을 지원하지 못했다는 것을 발견했다.내가 쓴 기사들에 대한 모든 비판은 Hzh가 싫어하는 것을 말해주므로 Hzh는 Hzh의 선언에 따라 기사를 다시 쓸 것을 요구한다. Hzh는 일부 위키백과 정책의 이름을 호출하여 편집자를 말 그대로 따라잡도록 한다.Hzh는 위키피디아라고 말하면서 기사에 대한 작업을 간단히 중단할 수 있다.출처, WP:OR 등을 인용하여, 나 또는 다른 편집자를 난처한 입장에 처하게 하면, Hzh 또는 다른 편집자는 모든 세부 사항을 반대로 무시할 수 있고 무시했으며, 계속해서 참조된 편집자와 WR을 제거하여 실제로 제거하겠다고 협박한다.OP 호환 재료.Hzh는 다른 사람에 의해 임명되거나 개인적이고 영구적인 New 페이지 편집자로 임명되어서는 안 되는데, 내가 구제를 위해 해야 할 일은 무엇인가?
  • 여기서 제기했던 주요 사항들을 주의 깊게 검토해 주셔서 미리 감사드린다.만약 내가 더 적은 말로 그것을 말할 수 있었다면 나는 그것을 했을 것이다.만약 내가 내 제안들 중 일부가 위키피디아를 돕기 위해 계속 될 수도 있다는 것을 내성적으로 생각하지 않았다면 나는 그것들을 그렇게 열심히 하지 않았을 것이다.디카텔 (대화) 18:36, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

Dcattell, 우린 모두 자원 봉사자야응축하는 법을 배워야 해.El_C 18:41, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

좋아, 하지만 12년 동안 편집한 것이 그렇게 많은 것은 아니다.요약본은 다음과 같다.
  • 나는 위키피디아를 편집하고 있어, 아마 12년째인가 봐.나는 내가 하던, 그리고 앞으로도 계속 할 의향이 있는 기고들이 새로운 기사 작성이라는 현재의 환경에서는 더 이상 계속될 수 없다고 생각한다.기고문에는 수많은 기사와 중국 시, 일본 시, 중국 신화 주제의 시작 등이 있다.내가 도움을 요청하는 이유는 처음으로 그것이 정말 필요하기 때문이고, 기사를 읽거나 편집하는 것 외에 대부분의 위키백과 기능에 대해 무지하기 때문이다.
  • 나는 특히 사용자로부터 왕따를 당했다.Hzh, 그리고 이와 관련하여 어떤 종류의 지원과 도움을 원한다.Hzh는 참고문헌에 관여하는 것을 거부하며 위키백과에 종사하는 것처럼 보인다.가식적인 편집위키백과:운영 중단 편집.내가 작업하려고 노력했던 기사들은 객관적으로 더 안 좋으며, Hzh는 기사에 긍정적으로 기여하지 않으며, 나는 이러한 상황을 감안하여 기사를 작업하려고 하는 어떤 유용한 목적을 보지 못한다.이것은 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니다. Hzh는 어떤 건설적인 의미에서 콘텐츠, 특히 참조된 콘텐츠에 관여하지 않는다.아마도 Hzh는 다른 할 일을 찾을 수 있을 것이다.그러나 나는 이것이 위키피디아에 관한 백과사전 콘텐츠의 개발로 인한 손해라고 확신할 수 있다.
  • 나는 새로운 기사 검토 과정에서 가치 있는 개혁을 보고 싶다.새로운 기사 분야의 노련한 편집자로서 이를 위해 긍정적으로 기여하고 싶다.나는 위키피디아가 적절한 포럼이나 포상에서 이것을 공유하거나 토론하는 것이 유용할 것이라고 생각한다.그러나 위키피디아가 편집자들의 이슈에 귀를 기울이고 대응하지 않는다면 정체될 가능성이 높다.난 그걸 보고 싶지 않아.나는 가끔 위키피디아를 편집하는 것을 즐겼고, 그것이 세상을 더 나은 곳으로 만드는 데 기여했다고 느낀다.

고마워, Dcattell (대화) 20:35, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 중요한 점은 유효한 출처를 이용한 검증에 대한 요구가 가식적이고 파괴적인 편집이라고 생각했다는 것이다.예를 들어, 당신이 여기서 말한 테이블 - [45], 당신은 신화적인 검의 출처로서 유명한 검에 있는 중국 위키백과 카테고리 페이지를 유효한 것으로 간주했다.나는 동의하지 않았고, 당신이 제공하는 것을 거절한 출처를 요청했다.10개월이 지난 지금 당신은 출품작의 절반이 결국 버렐 책에 있다고 주장하고 있는데, 내가 실제로 확인할 수 있도록 왜 그냥 그 안에 넣지 않았는가?출품작의 나머지 절반은?Hzh (대화) 20:59, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
단어. 텍스트 세그먼트(예: 표)의 속성이 누락되었지만 제공될 수 있는 경우, 그렇게 해야 한다.귀속인이 제공되지 않는 경우, 표는 기사에 포함되지 않아야 한다.Hzh가 이러한 옵션들 중 하나를 실행해야 한다고 주장하는 것은 파괴적이지 않으며, 기사는 객관적으로 어느 한쪽을 끝까지 따르기에 더 좋다. --Elmidae (토크 · 기여) 22:53, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 CliffsNotes 버전의 Hadrian's Essay를 받을 수 있을까?조금 푸른 보리 v^_^v 19:06, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

개인적인 요청인 것 같아 해당 사용자 토크 페이지에서 답변했다.하지만 읽고 싶은 사람이 있다면...디카텔 (대화)20:15, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
나에게 이 요구 사항을 알려줘서 고맙고, 이 일을 완수해 주었어.관련 정보에 대한 링크를 제공해 주시겠습니까?미안하지만, 나는 확실치 않아.특정 사용자를 언급했기 때문인가?또한 다음번에도 없었으면 좋겠다.디카텔 (대화) 20:13, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
@Dcattell:그래, 맞아.이 페이지를 편집할 때 사용자에게 지시하는 노란색 알림 상자가 맨 위에 표시되어야 함

"편집자에 대한 토론을 시작할 때, 당신은 그들의 사용자 토크 페이지에 그들에게 통지해야 한다.{{subst:를 사용할 수 있다.ANI-Notice}-~~~~그렇게 하기 위해서ping이나 알림 시스템의 사용은 이 목적에 충분하지 않다.또한 관련된 페이지 및 편집자에게 링크와 디프피를 제공하십시오.템플릿 {{Pagelinks}(페이지용) 및 {{Userlinks}(편집자용)이 도움이 될 수 있다."

에버그린피르(토크) 20:29, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
알았어, 고마워.그러나 여기서 학습 곡선은 다소 가파르다.처리해야 할 일이 많다.관련 기사는 중국 신화에 나오는 무기와 갑옷, 특히 관련 토크 페이지와 그보다 작은 범위까지 중국 신화 문화 공생(새 제목으로 옮겨짐)의 트리들이다.다른 점으로는, 나는 그것들을 완전히 이해하지 못하며, 속도에 도달하는 것은 불가피하고 유감스럽게도 시간이 걸릴 것이다.그러나 관련된 페이지 기록은 짧고, 디프트의 수가 제한되어 있다.감사와 사과, Dcattell (대화) 21:01, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 하지 않은 일로 고발당한 것처럼 보이는 것을 보면, 나는 여기서 어떻게 대답해야 할지 모르겠다.나는 참조된 자료, 특히 출품작의 절반 가량을 쉽게 확인할 수 있는 테이블을 제거하지 않았다; 나는 테이블을 제거했지만, 삭제하기 전에 테이블에서 어떤 참조도 볼 수 없다. 유명한 칼에 중국 위키 범주에 대한 링크와는 별개로. 전설적이거나 유명한 칼은 신화에서 칼과 같지 않다.소스는 OR이 될 것이고, 그것이 제거된 이유였고, 어떤 칼도 신화적인 것에 대한 언급은 없었다.나 또한 그의 토크 페이지에는 협박을 하지 않았고, 단지 DCatell이 다른 리뷰어에 대해 불평했을 때 윤수이로부터 핑을 받은 후 중국 신화 속의 나무들에 쓰여진 것은 OR로 보인다고 말했다.디카텔은 내가 한 말(기호는 신화와는 같지 않다)에 동의하는 것 같다(중국 신화나 문화공생의 나무로 기사의 제목을 바꿨기 때문이다.편집자가 신화를 신화적인 것이 아닌 다른 것과 혼동한 것 같다.나도 그 기사에 검에 중국어 번역을 포함시키는 것에 반대하지 않았다; 만약 편집자가 언급하는 것을 이해한다면, 중국어 카테고리 페이지를 인용문으로 사용해서는 안 된다는 것이다(어쨌든 신화적인 검에 관한 것이 아니기 때문에 그 카테고리는 인용으로 작동하지 않는다).만약 위의 혼란스러운 비난에 대답해야 할 것이 있다면, 나에게 알려줘.Hzh (대화) 20:01, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 아직도 혼란스럽다.그들이 연결되지 않고 있는 다른 일이 없는 한, Dcattell의 불평은 Hzh가 거의 1년 전에 수행했던 '새로운 기사 검토'에 관한 것인데, Hzh는 선의의 소싱에 대해 약간의 우려를 제기했다.Dcattell은 재빨리 개인적으로 Hzh를 공격하는 것으로 변질되었고, 이제 그들을 "tyranny", "nitpicking", "무시", "discornance", "tendored editing" 등의 혐의로 고발하고 있다.실제의 잘못에 대한 증거는 없고 단지 ...에 대한 모독으로 인식되고 있다.NPR 과정을 거치고 비판의 면제를 받지 않는다.이것은 오랜 원한에 대한 이상한 비난으로 보인다.우리 모두가 알아야 할 것처럼, 우리의 NPR 시스템은 코믹하게 망가져 있다.실제로 작업에 투입된 소수의 검토자들은 종종 그 일을 했다는 이유로 끝없는 불평과 학대를 당한다.새로운 후보자들은 믿을 수 없을 정도로 세밀한 조사를 받게 되며, 보통 WP에서 "임시" 보조금만 지급된다.수만 번의 편집으로 기사작성자를 자동 조작해도 PERM.나는 최근에야 유망한 새 평론가가 그 일이 가져다 준 "질문과 욕설"에 대한 인식에 대해 그의 직위에서 사임하도록 했다.그럼에도 불구하고 우리는 거의 1년이 지난 지금, 불법행위에 대한 아무런 증거도 없이 자신들의 일을 한 것에 대해 비평가를 공격하는 어떤 남자를 칭찬하고 있다.나는 이 보고서를 경박하다고 부메랑으로 만들고 싶은 마음이 강하다.이거 점점 우스워진다.~스왑~ 2020년 4월 9일 00:21 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Dcattell:나는 지금 너의 확장된 내용을 다 읽었다.나는 당신이 NPP에 대한 몇 가지 흥미로운 일반적 요점을 제기하고 이상적인 세계에서 우리가 구현할 몇 가지 제안을 한다고 생각한다.사실은 우리가 위키의 많은 분야에서 자원봉사자가 부족한 것처럼 NPP에서도 자원봉사자가 부족하다는 것이다.검토자는 자신이 충분히 검토할 수 있다고 생각하는 영역(예: 예)을 고수하기를 희망한다.나는 중국어에 의존하는 많은 주제를 건너뛰는 동안 많은 리뷰어들이 건너뛰는 FOOTY 기사를 검토할 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 그러한 리뷰들을 더 잘 할 수 있는 다른 리뷰어들이 있다는 것을 알기 때문이다.나는 그 아이디어들에 대해 더 많이 쓸 수 있지만, 실제로 당신의 구체적인 사례 연구를 살펴보도록 하자.중국 신화에 나오는 무기와 갑옷.나는 나 자신을 쓰러뜨리겠지만 그 경험이 왜 너를 좌절시켰는지 다시 한 번 이해한다(부모의 인용에 대해서는 네가 옳다) 그러나 나는 또한 Hzhh가 기본적으로 모든 정책과 절차를 따르고 있었다고 생각한다.나는 또한 네가 화낼 것이 분명할 때 조차도 그가 내내 너를 존경했다고 생각해.
Dcattell을 대상으로 한 Barkeep의 사례 연구 상세 분석
    • Hzhh가 처음 그 기사를 태그했을 때, 그것은 당신이 그것을 만든 지 93일 후인 6월 21일이었다.그래서 적어도 이번 사례연구에서는 태그를 달았을 때 제대로 개발할 시간이 없었던 기사가 아니었다.만약 네가 그런 예가 있다면 나는 그것을 보고 싶다.
    • 그 태그는 인라인 참조를 약간 인용한 것이었다.그것은 언급이 없었더라면과는 다른 꼬리표다.템플릿:이 템플릿의 모양을 보려면 참조되지 않음.
    • 그 태그가 놓였을 때, 실제로 괄호를 사용한 몇 개의 인라인 인용문이 있었다.위에 있는 EEng는 그것들을 어떻게 연계된 참고자료로 만드는지에 대한 몇 가지 팁을 주었다.전혀 언급이 없는 전체 섹션도 있었다.나는 그 태그가 왜 너를 괴롭혔는지 이해한다 - 엄밀히 말하면 아주 흔하지는 않지만 괄목할 만한 언급은 허용된다.Hzh가 태그를 배치하는 것보다 당신에게 메시지를 보내는 것이 더 나을 수도 있었다.
    • 그가 본 특정 이슈들에 대한 일련의 편집의 끝에서 나는 Hzh가 당신과 대화를 시작하는 것을 본다.그것은 내가 NPP에서 보고 싶은 것을 정확히 느끼고, 코멘트에서, 그는 정보원들과 씨름하고 있는 것을 보여준다.이것은 드라이브로 하는 일이 아니었다.이것은 편집자가 당신이 원하는 것을 정확히 하는 것이다 - 내용을 주의깊게 살펴보는 것이다.나는 Hzh가 이 기사를 다른 누구 못지않게 편집할 권리가 있다는 것을 여기에 밑줄을 긋는 것이 중요하다고 생각한다.
    • 기사를 개선하려는 당신의 노력과 마찬가지로 다음 이틀에 걸쳐 대화가 계속된다.이것은 정상적인 편집 과정처럼 보인다 - 나는 누군가가 당신의 작품에 대해 질문하는 것이 기분이 좋지 않았음을 알 수 있다(나는 누군가 나에게 그렇게 했을 때 두 번 이상 화를 냈다). 그러나 그것은 위키피디아에도 속한다.나는 내 작품을 수천 명이 읽게 하는 것에 대한 절충이 때때로 내가 원하는 대로 정확하게 끝나거나 내가 원하는 방식으로 그것을 얻고자 하는 것보다 조금 더 열심히 해야 한다는 것을 인정한다.
    • 진짜 플래시 포인트는 테이블 위에 있는 것 같다.Hzh가 처음 기사를 검토할 때는 없었지만 나중에 추가된 테이블을 제거하기 전에는 이렇게 보였다.저 테이블은 내가 볼 수 있는 인용구를 사용하지 않는다.그리고 왜 Hzh가 OR에 대해 걱정했는지도 알겠다.돌이켜 보면 너는 이것을 이해하니 아니면 내가 더 설명해야 하니?
    • Hzh가 널 괴롭히거나 잘못 행동할 생각을 할 수가 없어.나는 네가 왜 그 기사 편집을 그만두기로 결정했는지 이해할 수 있어.하지만 Hzh는 다른 기사들을 따라다니지 않았다.그는 너보다 새로운 페이지 검토자가 되는 것을 경시하지 않았다. 나는 그가 토론이 시작된 지 며칠이 지나도록 그것을 언급하는 것을 보지 못한다.나는 왜 그가 괴롭힘을 당하기 위한 필수 조건인 당신에게 권력을 가지고 있다고 느꼈는지 이해할 수 있지만, 실제로는 NPP는 그들이 누를 수 있는 버튼 하나 외에는 특별한 특권을 가지고 있지 않다.그래서 나는 당신이 힘의 불균형이 있다고 느꼈다고 의심하는 것이 아니라, Hzh의 관점에서 그가 평등한 사람들 사이의 토론인 것처럼 느꼈다고 약속한다.그게 기분이 나아지진 않겠지만 그가 어디서 왔는지에 대한 통찰력을 줬으면 좋겠어.그리고 바라건대 지금 당신은 NPP가 기사를 편집하는 방법에 대한 특별한 권리나 권한을 가지고 있지 않다는 것을 알고 있다. 그래서 당신이 나중에 NPP와 토론하게 된다면 당신은 그렇게 느끼지 않을 것이다.
    • 당신이 행동 문제에 대한 생각을 처음으로 내팽개친 것이 Hzh가 파괴적인 편집에 관여하고 있다는 것을 암시하는 것이었다.아마도 이것은 권력 불균형이라고 인식한 것과 같은 시도였을 것이다. 하지만 나는 Hzh가 꽤 공격적인 메시지임에도 불구하고 당신에게 공손하게 반응하는 것을 본다.Hzh는 며칠 후 차단을 언급했지만 상당히 부드러운 태도로, 그리고 전반적으로 정책을 유지하면서 존중하려고 노력한다.이것이 바로 내가 우리 NPP 모두가 하기를 바라는 것이다.
  • 그래서 저것들은 나의 확장된 생각들이야.비록 네가 엄밀히 따지자면, 나는 네가 너의 기본적인 인용 스타일을 유지하면서 좀더 광범위하게 연결된 인용문을 사용하는 방법에 대한 Eeng의 충고를 받아들이기를 정말 바란다.작은 변화로 인해 많은 좌절감을 덜 수 있을 것 같아.Best, Barkeep49 (대화) 02:59, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Barkeep49가 제공하는 분석은 합리적이고 객관적이다. 또한 새로운 페이지 검토자/등록자의 관점에서 상당한 관점을 제공한다.는 여전히 "너도 이상한 방법으로 글을 쓴다"는 말을 듣는다고 생각한다.중국 신화에 나오는 무기와 갑옷)은 좀 지나치게 인격적이고 다소 모욕적이다.그렇다면 내가 대신 어떤 표현을 썼어야 했는지 듣는 것도 도움이 되지 않는다: 나에게 어떻게 하라고 말하는 대신 기사를 편집하는 것이 어떨까?페이지가 새로운 페이지 검토의 대상이 되고 있다는 통지를 받은 후 실제로 삭제된 자료 사이의 타임라인은 6일이었고, 여전히 터무니없이 짧은 것 같다(그리고 나는 JSTOR을 가지고 있지 않다).어떤 사상이 신화인지, 전설인지, 민속인지에 근거한 독창적인 연구의 비난은 내게는 부당한 것으로 보인다; 비록 내가 그 기사로 무엇을 하려고 했는지가 명확하지 않았거나, 내가 어떤 출처를 찾을 수 있는지에 따라 그것이 어떻게 전개될 것인지는 사실이지만; 정말로, 그 기사의 적절한 범위는 내가 볼 것이다.m은 실제 무기와 갑옷이 아닌 중국 문화에서 무기와 갑옷에 관한 것에 지나지 않는다(이것들에 대한 기존의 기사들이 있다).나는 "중국 신화 속의 무기들과 갑옷들"을 중국 신화, 전설, 문화적 공생, 소설의 무기들과 갑옷으로 옮겼다. (분명히 특권 수준의 부족으로 인해 지시된 대로 수반되는 편집문을 옮기는 것은 허용되지 않는 것으로 보인다.)돌이켜 보면, 나는 이 새로운 페이지 검토/등록에 다소 과민반응을 보였음을 알 수 있다. 그럼에도 불구하고, 내가 약간 관여했던 한두 개의 GA 리뷰를 제외하고 이렇게 강도 높은 수준의 기사 검토에 직면한 것은 이번이 처음이다.나는 진심으로 이것에 관련된 모든 사람들이 그것으로부터 무언가를 배울 수 있기를 바란다, 나는 내가 알고 있다. 그리고 나는 우리가 함께 위키피디아를 더 나은 곳으로 만들 수 있기를 바란다.언젠가 참고에 대한 Eeng의 충고를 시도해 볼게.나는 이 방법을 몰랐지만, 가능성이 있어 보인다.그리고 시스템샵과 새로운 페이지 리뷰어들이 행운을 빌며, 이들은 힘든 직업과 특별한 사람을 필요로 하는 직업처럼 보인다.디카텔 (대화) 15:16, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
내 관점에서는(당신의 경험은 보지 않았다) 그럴 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 "도대체 그들이 말하려고 하는 것이 무엇인가"를 보고 생각하고, 정중하게 그 말을 하려고 하기 때문이다.종종 어떤 기사가 너무 형편없이 쓰여서 무슨 말을 하고 있는지 알아내기가 거의 불가능하다.이는 특히 더 전문화된 용어가 무엇을 의미하는지 또는 문맥에서 어떻게 사용하는지조차 모르기 때문에 고도로 전문화된 경우 더욱 나쁘다.한 가지 측면에서 이것은 좋은 것이다, 우리는 전문가를 위해서가 아니라 평신도들을 위해 글을 쓰고 있기 때문에 우리의 기사는 특별한 지식이나 사전 지식 없이도 이해하기 쉬울 것이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 18:20, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

Crveni5의 중단 편집

편집자는 위험을 무릅쓰고 관습과 합의를 무시하기로 결심하거나 이러한 개념을 이해할 수 없다.이 문제는 크르베니5가 주장하는 검증된 최고령자 100명의 목록#검증된 최고령자의 목록과 관련이 있다(이는 기사를 편집하는 다른 모든 편집자가 이사할 때 사망한 사례와 살아있는 사례에 대한 일반적인 순서임).이것의 역사는 다음과 같다.

  1. 2020년 3월 2일 [47] 올바른 순서를 알리는 편집 내용 되돌리기
  2. 2020년 3월 3일 [48] 정기적으로 업데이트를 수행하는 사용자의 업데이트(따라서 올바른 순서를 알고 있음)에 따라 편집이 의도적으로 중단되는 것처럼 보인다는 것을 나타내기 위해 "Rvv"를 사용하여 다시 되돌림.
  3. 2020년 3월 10일 [49] 다시 돌아왔다.
  4. 2020년 3월 19일 [50] 일반 사용자가 기사를 업데이트한 직후에 한 번 더 편집한 내용을 되돌렸다.사용자에게 레벨 3 경고를 제공했다.사용자 측은 이들의 편집 내용은 공공 기물 파손이 아니며 그들이 원하는 방식(이전에 사용했던 주장)을 자유롭게 편집할 수 있다고 설명했다.
  5. 2020년 3월 25일 [51] 또 다른 유사한 편집을 되돌린 후 사용자에게 관습에 반하여 편집하고 있다고 설명하였다.
  6. 2020년 4월 2일 [52] 기사가 올바르게 업데이트된 후 다시 작성된 편집 내용을 되돌렸다.이쯤 되자 나는 편집장이 실제로 일부러 이런 짓을 하고 있는지 그저 그들이 무엇을 하고 있는지 전혀 모르고 있는 것이 아닌가 하는 생각이 들기 시작했다.편집 결과 대 올바른 편집 결과를 표시하여 편집으로 이 문제를 해결하려고 시도함.평소 습관에 따라 그들은 응답하지 않았다가 다시 같은 일을 하기 전까지 편집을 중단했다.
  7. 2020년 4월 8일 [53년]

이 사용자는 이전에 여러 가지 문제에 대해 경고를 받은 적이 있으며, 이 모든 문제는 그들이 협조적으로 편집하기 위해 여기에 있지 않다는 것을 암시한다.더비카운틴NZ 23:44, 2020년 4월 8일 (UTC)[응답]

DerbyCountyinNZ, @Crveni5:여기 있는 내 생각은 너희들을 분쟁 해결 게시판으로 추천하는 거야.사례를 공개하고, 자원봉사자의 안내를 받는 것은 구조화된 환경에서 여러분의 문제를 해결하는 데 일해야 한다.잘난 척하고 규칙을 따라야 할 거야, 그렇게 하지 않으면 다시 여기 도착하게 될 거야, 이건 불쾌한 경험이 될 거야.선장Eek 01:54, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
번역되지 않은 편집자
단발성 편집자
EEng, 좋은 지적 - 진화되지 않은 편집자로서, 친근한 리마인더로 DS-장수 공지를 할 것이다. 크레페트 (토크) 18:36, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
양 당사자는 모두 과거에 DS 장수의 통지를 받았으나, 마지막 통지(최소 요구 연도 이상) 이후 3-4년이 지났다.크레펫 (토크) 18:45, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

36.82.120.76118.120.10.168.1987.10

사실, 나는 이것이 여기에 속하는지 WP에 속하는지 확실하지 않다.NEWNEW, 그러나 는 이 IP특히 여기, 여기, 그리고 여기 보이는 다른 IP에 의해 편집된 내용을 몇 가지 언급하기 위해 되돌리고 있다는 것을 알아챘다.36.82는 그들의 올캡 편집 요약을 사용하는 것 외에도, 그들이 그들의 토크 페이지에서 나의 경고삭제하고 118.136으로 옮기기 때문에 이것이 그들의 문제가 아닌 것처럼 가장하고, 그것이 118.136의 문제인 것처럼 보인다.나는 그들이 WP:3RR을 어기고 있는지조차 확신할 수 없지만, 그럼에도 불구하고 그들의 편집은 파괴적인 것처럼 보인다.세미하이퍼큐브 15:32, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

세미하이퍼큐브, 방금 순찰 중 편집된 요약 중 하나를 발견했어.그 반전은 무의미해 보였다 - 그들은 어떤 이미지를 사용할 것인가를 놓고 싸우고 있는 것처럼 보였다 - 그러나 그들은 3RR을 넘지 않았다.무례하고 외마디한 편집 요약은 여기서 가장 큰 이슈처럼 보였다. 만약 당신이 그들에게 경고를 했고, 그들이 그것을 무시하고 계속한다면, 나는 CIV에 대한 메모가 있는 짧은 블록을 제안할 것이다.GirthSummit (blether) 16:04, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
두 계정 모두 편집 필터를 트리거하고 있다.예를 들어, 38.82.120.76.에드존스턴 (대화) 16:20, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
그들이 반란을 일으키는 처럼 보이지는 않는데, 나는 아직 상황이 어떻게 돌아가는지 잘 모르는 두 사람 사이의 진정한 콘텐츠 분쟁이라고 생각한다.내가 그들에게 약간의 비템플적인 메시지를 남겼는데, 아마 그것이 그들의 관심을 끌 것이다.GirthSummit (blether) 17:20, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
@SemiHypercube and Girth Summit: FWIW, 인도네시아 관련 페이지에서는 이러한 일들이 수개월 동안 진행되어 왔으며, 두 IP 모두 내게 익숙한 블록 회피처럼 나타난다. 118.136은 양말장사와 연결되어 있는 것 같다. 사용자:템플릿, 카테고리, 짧은 설명을 포함한 가능한 한 많은 기사에 '인도네시아'라는 단어를 추가하는 것이 유일한 야망인 것 같은 무하마드 파렐 D.그들은 주로 지리, 문화 유산, 무술, 음식, 그리고 인도네시아 지방에 대한 페이지의 사진을 바꾸는 것에 초점을 맞추고 있다.36.82는 sockmaster와 연결된 것으로 보인다. 사용자:딘아델, 그리고 양말과 매우 비슷한 행동을 한다. 사용자:인도네시아의 '전통적인' 이미지를 혐오하는 듯한 모습을 보이고 보다 화려하고 현대적인 이미지(어쨌든 여배우에 대한 사랑과 미인대회와 잘 어울리는 이미지)를 선호하는 피에르 응우옌.나는 내 감시 목록에 인도네시아와 관련된 페이지들이 많이 있어서, 시간이 지나면 패턴을 바꿀 수 있다(그리고 그것에 완전히 짜증이 난다).오스트로니에 (대화) 19:52, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

주석 IP 36.82.120.76은 위키 관리자가 소리 편집 요약을 통해 무엇을 하고 있는지 명확하게 알고 있다.나는 IP가 양말일 수 있다는 것에 동의하지만, 나는 누군지 모른다. (대화)20:00, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

오스트로네시아, 양말 니핑은 사실 내 전문 분야가 아니다. 두 IP 모두 당분간 편집을 중단한 것으로 보이지만, 마스터에 대해 자신만만하다면 SPI로의 여행이 보장될지도 모른다. (수표 사용자가 조사하기를 원하는 사람을 지나치지 않는 한?) Girth Summit (대화 기여) 20:18, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
CheckUsers는 극단적인 남용을 배제하고 IP를 프리폴에 따라 사용자 계정에 사용하지 않는다.조금 푸른 보리 v^_^v 20:50, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
사이드노트, 이 IP는 36.82의 또 다른 IP인 것 같다.세미하이퍼큐브 20:52, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

문제 범위

지금 이 시간에는 정말 조사할 시간이 없지만, 특별:기여금/2601:204:E37F:FF1:D5DE:7A76:A8A1:2C44/64는 잠재적인 문제인 것 같다.그들은 내 토크 페이지에 와서 이 (그들의 토크 페이지)를 썼는데, 나는 그것을 게임을 하면서 받아들였다.그러나 그들의 많은, 다른 곳에서의 많은 기여는, 범위 면에서, 모두 어느 정도 비슷한 것 같다.지금까지 내가 마주친 그들의 편집에 단 하나의 출처도 추가되지 않았다(피서적인 눈초리로 보아라, 잘 들어라).El_C 23:54, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자의 괴롭힘 및 법적 위협:아바르싱구르자르

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


AvtarSinghGurjar(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자·블록 로그)는 IP 편집자의 토크 페이지에 이런 괴롭히는 글을 올렸으며, 내 사용자 토크 페이지법적 대응(개인적으로 반대하는 것이 아니라 대체로 위키백과 커뮤니티에 반대)을 위협하고 있다.나는 이것이 관리자 주의가 필요하다고 믿는다.위키단61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:49, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

편집자는 또한 사발가르에서 로그아웃한 동안 편집하고 있는 것으로 보인다.나이젤 이스 (대화) 14:47, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 토크 기준:2409:4043:182:D6D7:B74D:40B5:C02:8DB2(관리자 전용)다른 문제를 조사하고 있다.오버사이터들은 위키피디아에 대해 불평하는 페이스북 페이지에 대한 링크를 봤을지도 모른다. 다시 말해서, 외부와의 유착과 더 이상의 혼란은 있을 수도 있다.뭐에 대해 하느님이 아신다.드레이미스 (대화) 15:26, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 닌자 로보트피레이트, 편집기에서 CU를 실행해 보고 차단한 범위와 어떤 연결인지(글쎄, 어쩌면 당신에게도 명백할지도 모른다)를 알아봐 달라고 부탁하고 싶다.중복성을 위해 사발가르위키피디아 사이에는 다음과 같은 연관성이 있을 수 있다.Sockpuppet 조사/Vivek.k.Verma/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet 조사/Bhanwar singh vaish; Nigel Issh, 나는 별로 말할 수 없지만 나는 방금 차단한 사용자와 최근 편집된 기사들 사이에 명백한 연관성이 없다고 말할 수 있다.드레이미스 (대화) 15:33, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 내 범위 블록과 이 편집기를 구분할 수 없는 관계.예전에 반와르 싱 바이쉬에 대해 내가 무슨 말을 하고 있었는지 알고 있었던 것 같지만, 그 사건은 더 이상 기억나지 않는다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 17:36, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

계속 잘라내기 붙여넣기 동작

Princessruby(토크 · 기여 · 삭제 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 최근 회고와 경고에도 불구하고 기사를 페이지 작성(편집하는 과거의 행동에 근거)하려는 시도로 페이지 붙여넣기를 시도하고 있다.사용자 또한 그들의 토크 페이지 경고를 인정하지 않고 대신, 단순히 경고를 되돌리고 매일 그들의 편집 연습을 계속한다.사용자들은 공동체로 함께 일하기 위해 그들의 대화 페이지에서 상호작용하지 않았던 오랜 역사를 가지고 있다.사용자 역시, 보이는 바와 같이, 자신의 관점에 맞게 편집하는 방법으로서, 156.159.39.2 (대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)에서 계정 외부 편집을 시작했다.사용자는 분명히 백과사전을 건설적으로 편집하기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다.

니나 리브스의 정크 히스토리를 지우고 리디렉션을 보호했어기사 한 부분을 새 기사로 베끼고 있기 때문에 이런 것들은 엄밀히 말해 c&p 동작이 아니다.그것은 여전히 이상적이지는 않지만, 나는 나쁜 믿음이나 방해하려는 의도를 가진 증거를 보지 못하고 있다.HJ Mitchell Penny, 당신의 생각은? 13:44, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답하라]
@Dennis Brown: Will do!그리고 니나 리브스 페이지에서 정크 히스토리를 삭제해 준 HJ 미첼에게 고마워.활기찬 대화! 01:51, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Boil-in-the-Bag백과사전개선하러 온 것이 아니다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


Boom-in-the-Bag(토크 · 기여)의 기여를 빨리 숙독한다는 것은 그들이 백과사전을 개선하려고 여기 있는 것이 아님을 보여준다.노스비사우스바라노프 (대화) 21:17, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

동의함 WP에 의해 무기한 차단됨:NOT There.자우어백dude?/dude.21:32, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자에 의한 개인 공격:할마틴

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 최근에 내가 "아주 혐오스럽다"는 말을 들었다. "내가 누군가를 조롱하고 있다" "여기서 "한심해 보이네, 친구(혹은 두데트)"라는 말을 들었다[54].이것은 할마틴이 무제한적으로 차단된 사용자와의 오래된 논의에 대한 것이었는데, 할마틴은 아무 관계도 없는 것 같고, 오히려 내게는 최고의 인신공격에 대한 것이었다.정말 "혐오스럽다"면 내가 새끼 고양이들을 익사시켰다고 생각하겠지이들은 또 다른 편집자에게 가서 목을 매라고 말하는 등 모욕적인 내용과 인신공격에 대해서도 "자신의 존엄성을 지킬 만한 가치가 있을 것"이라고 말했다.사실대로 말하면 브렉시트 당했잖아, 멍청아스스로 걸어라" [55] 그들은 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것 같지 않다.바콘드럼 (대화) 22:11, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 그것이 너무 심했기 때문에 너의 행동을 "매우 혐오"라고 불렀다.내 생각엔 네가 대화하던 사용자를 미묘하게 조명하려고 했던 것 같은데, 그건 나쁜 형태야.너 또한 그것을 하는 동안 꽤 한심해 보였어.그게 다야?--할마틴 (대화) 22시 20분, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
다른 편집자가 아닌 콘텐츠에 집중하십시오.바콘드럼 (대화) 22:27, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
"다른 편집자가 아닌 콘텐츠에 집중하라."아니, 난 안 할거야. 왜냐하면 링크된 토크 페이지에서 너의 행동은 위키피디아에 대한 정책에 대한 명백한 위반이기 때문이야.내가 되돌릴 수 있었으면 하는 수정 작업을 했다는 것을 인정하겠다.그들은 젊었지만 정책을 위반하지는 않았다.--할마틴 (대화) 22:34, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답하라]

이 편집자는 분명히 건설적으로 기여하기 보다는 다른 편집자들을 남용하기 위해 여기에 있다.바콘드럼 (대화) 22:23, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 이것에 대한 당신의 증거는 무엇인가?나는 수많은 고급 편집을 했고, 건설적으로 기여했다.내가 너의 혐오스러운 행동에 대해 말한 것은 모두 사실이야.거짓을 밝혀주십시오.--할마틴 (대화) 22:31, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
관리자가 지금 이 토론을 종료할 수 있는가?바콘드럼이 위키백과 정책을 위반했다고 생각하는 것은 사실 위키백과 정책을 위반하는 것이라고 말하는 공정한 사람은 없을 것이다.바콘드럼을 자기 자신으로부터 보호하려는 거야, 여기바콘드럼이 개인적으로 문제 삼을 만한 위키백과 프로젝트에서 사람들을 몰아내려는 의도로 경박한 ANI를 여는 것은 아이러니하게도 우리 둘 중 한 명이 보여주는 유일한 위키백과 정책의 위반이다.-할마틴 (대화) 22:52, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
HalMartin은 종종 와해적인 편집을 위해 나타나는 것 같다.특수:Diff/811328340, 특수:Diff/838349607, 특수:Diff/903317055, 특수:Diff/903473857.이 편집장이 아직 무기한 차단되지 않았다는 게 놀랍군.하지만 이런 편집은 좀 오래된 것이다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 23:05, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그들이 참가자들 중 한 명을 공격하기 위해 참여하지 않은 4개월간의 토론에 참석했다가 그들이 화가 났을 때 비웃기 위해 편집자의 토크 페이지로 가는 것은, 그들을 추적하는 것과 구별할 수 없다는 것을 지적하기 위해 분주히 움직이고 있었다. 하지만 나는 당신이 이미 그들을 차단했으므로, 나는 단지 당신의 블록을 지지할 것이다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 23:18, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워. 다른 편집자에게 목을 매라고 재촉하는 것은 변명의 여지가 없었어야 했어.기사의 주제를 "뚱뚱한 돼지"라고 부르는 것과 같은 다른 공공 기물 파괴 행위들은 분명히 어떤 종류의 제재도 정당화했다.나는 개인적으로 그들의 최근 나에 대한 쌍곡선 공격은 그들이 전반적으로 학대하는 전반적인 행동의 맥락에서 보여져야 한다고 생각하고, 비록 변명의 여지가 없더라도 어떤 종류의 제재가 있어야 한다고 생각한다.그들은 분명히 백과사전을 짓기 위해 이곳에 온 것이 아니라, 오히려 은밀하게 모욕과 학대를 일삼고 있다.바콘드럼 (대화) 23:24, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
할마틴의 편집을 더 자세히 살펴본 결과, 나는 이것이 에키보카스마누스(토크 · 기여)의 양말이라고 거의 확신한다.하지만, 그래, 그것과는 상관없이, 여기엔 오래전부터 걸어온 역사가 있어.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 23:26, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 이제 원초적인 모욕이 여러 번 확인되었고, 다른 편집자들보다는 내용에 집중하는 것을 절대적으로 거부했으며, 또한 내가 거짓말쟁이라는 비난과 [56]을 인신공격 리스트에 추가시켰다.바콘드럼 (대화) 23:06, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

공화당(미국)에서 RfC 결과 집행

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

최근 공화당(미국)에서 열린 RfC는 S 마샬에 의해 기사에서 현상 버전을 즉시 변경하지 않겠다는 결정으로 폐쇄되었다.클로즈업 후, 나는 명확성을 향상시키고 MOS 문제를 해결하기 위해 두 개의 사소한 트윗을 할 수 있는 허가를 구하려고 S 마샬에게 손을 내밀었고, 그들은 나의 변화가 그들의 클로즈업과 일치할 것이라고 단언했다.나는 변경사항을 실행했지만, 정기적으로 기사를 순찰하는 두 편집자(그리고 RfC 기간 동안 문제의 문장의 삭제나 수정을 주장), 스프링이토아 니드히키05는, 클로져의 통지나 승인도 받지 않고 문장을 더욱 수정하고, 선호하는 버전으로 되돌리고 있었다.이 문제에 대한 당신의 주의와 RfC 결과의 시행에 도움을 주었으면 한다.안녕하십니까, {{u Sdkb}} 18:27, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

잘못된 형태로 닫힘.Sdkb는 RfC 마감을 기반으로 한 올바른 편집이라고 느꼈던 것을 뒷받침하는 과감한 변화를 선의로 표현했다.내가 포함된 다른 편집자들은 동의하지 않았다.다음, 올바른 행동 방침, 하나의 Sdkb가 취하지 않은 것은, 기사의 토크 페이지에서 토론을 시작하는 것이다.대신 이곳에 온다는 것은 당신의 과감한 변화에 동의하지 않은 사람은 누구나 단순하고 분명한 행동을 제공하는 가상의 폐쇄에 반대하거나 나쁜 믿음으로 행동하고 있었다는 것을 암시한다.이 경우 실제 마감은 잘 이루어졌고, 방향을 제시했지만, 사람들이 가능한 변화들에 대해 먼저 계속 논의할 필요가 있다고 말했다.스프링키(토크) 18:36, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
관리자 클로져에 의해 RfC의 종료와 일치한다고 확인된 변화는 결코 대담한 것이 아니다.'Take it to talk'는 아직 문제가 논의되지 않았을 때는 미세한 대응이지만, 이미 RfC가 발생했을 때는 적절하지 않다.{{u Sdkb}}}talk 18:40, 2020년 4월 5일(UTC)[응답]
당신은 두 명의 편집자를 돌려서 당신의 변화를 억지로 끌어들이려고 했다.WP:BRD에 따르면, 이 강연에 대해 토론하는 것에 대해 반대하십니까?토아 니드히키05 18:49, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

Sdkb는 RfC의 컨센서스를 구현하기 위해 편집했다.Springee도 Toa Nidhiki05도 편집 내용을 되돌리지 않았다.Sdkb가 한 일 중 하나는 기존 링크에서 남부 전략으로 파이핑된 텍스트를 변경하는 것이었다.그리고 나서 스프링이는 그 링크(링크를 설명하는 데 사용되는 언어가 아닌 링크 그 자체)를 제거하여, 그것을 남부 주들로의 링크로 대체했다.즉, RfC의 바로 그 주제를 제거하는 완전히 별개의 편집.그것은 편집 전쟁의 주제였다.나머지 부분은 명백한 오보인데, 왜 내가 오늘 아침 있었던 대로 기사를 되돌렸는지.\\ 19:22, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 문제의 링크가 항상 문제가 있다고 말하고 싶다.이스트레그.링크 위치가 알려졌으면 무엇으로 보이는지 오래 전에 되돌아갔을 것이라고 추측한다.우리는 미국 남부의 주요 기사를 가지고 있다.Stable 링크된 텍스트는 "남부 주"이다.그것을 검색창에 넣으면 [[57]]이 나온다.어떤 링크도 남부 전략에 연결되지 않는다.또한 이러한 링크는 기사 본문이나 RfC 클로징에 의해 지원되지 않는다.나는 우리가 마지막 합의 버전으로 되돌아가서 거기서부터 일할 것이라고 말해도 괜찮다.스프링키(토크) 19:50, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
요점은 -- 어쨌든 이 장소에서는 -- 당신과 토아 니드히키05가 마치 Sdkb가 대담한 편집을 하고 강제로 편집하려는 것처럼 들리게 했다는 겁니다.반대로, sdkb가 추가하지 않은 링크를 삭제한 것은 편집 전쟁의 주제였다.그런 다음 그것을 그들 자신의 선호 버전을 강요하는 다른 사람으로 특징지으려 하는 것은 좋지 않다.이 모든 것은, 여기에서의 나의 논평이 ANI에 이것을 가져오는 것에 대한 지지로 받아들여져서는 안 된다는 것이다.내가 관여했기 때문에 코멘트를 한 것뿐이에요.\\ 20:25, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 한 가지 변화를 주었다.나는 전쟁을 편집한 것이 하나도 없다. 왜냐하면 그것은 하나의 변화였기 때문이다. 그리고 WP에 의해 수정되었다.이스트레그.그래도 이 모든 것에 대한 정확한 장소는 이전의 합의로 회복하고 대화하는 것이다.sdkb가 토크 페이지 토론을 시작하기도 전에 ANI를 여는 것은 우물을 오염시키는 것에 불과하다.스프링키 (토크) 20:42, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

이에 대한 대응으로 지금까지 관리자 코멘트가 없었다는 점에 주목하기 위해 신속하게 후속 조치를 취하십시오. 위의 의견과 기사 토크 페이지에 언급된 모든 사람이 관련 참여자임.토론을 끝내고 그 문제를 해결하는 데 도움을 줄 수 있는 어떤 관리자도 감사할 것이다.고마워, {{u Sdkb}} 05:34, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

당신이 위와 같은 글을 올린 지 24시간도 채 되지 않은 것을 고려하면, & 관리자가 위키피디아와 떨어져 있는 삶을 살고 있다는 것을 고려하면 (&#################################################:AN/I when we are on when when we're operative on Wikipedia or other contents) are you are a litering to your followers.--llywratch (talk) 21:29, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@Llywrch: 물론이지."제발 그 부분을 힐끗 보지 말고 댓글 뭉치가 있다는 것은 그것이 처리되고 있다는 것을 의미한다고 가정해달라"는 말처럼, 위 내용을 '서둘러라'는 뜻으로 말한 것은 아니다.이것은 내가 이 게시판에 올려야 했던 첫 번째 문제이기 때문에, 나는 여기 게시물이 얼마나 오랫동안 게시되어 있는지 확실하지 않지만, 나는 내가 염려할 필요가 없었다는 것을 의미하도록 너의 의견을 받아들이겠다.건배, {{u Sdkb}}01:56, 2020년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 당신이 기사를 수정하는 것이 문제가 될 수 있다는 조언을 받았다는 것을 알 수 있다. 왜냐하면 "다른 사람들은 내가 생각하지 못한 타당한 이의를 제기할 수 있기 때문이다." (S 마샬의 매우 예언적인 말)이 경우 RFC를 닫는 동안 가장 중요한 부품인 라벨 #5가 요약에 없었다.추가하려는 어떠한 시도도 표현되고 토론되어 글의 문구와 위치에 대한 합의가 평화적으로 이루어질 수 있도록 해야 한다.현재 당신이 앞으로 나아가야 한다는 공감대가 있는 동안 당신은 앞으로 어떻게 보일지, 어디로 가야 할지에 대한 공감대가 형성되어 있지 않다. 그리고 그것이 문제다.WP에 따라 토크 페이지를 참조할 것을 권고한다.현재로서는 BRD가 콘텐츠 분쟁처럼 보이기 때문이다.톰스타81 (토크) 05:52, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
    고마워, 톰스타81.RfC에서 패배한 쪽에 있는 사람들이 그것을 실행하려는 어떤 시도에도 이의를 제기할 것이 분명 예측 가능했지만, 문제는 그들의 이의 제기가 RfC에서 이미 제기되어 해결된 이슈들을 RfC에서 재심의하고 있다는 것이다. 그리고 만약 RfC 이후의 논의가 그렇게 허용된다면, RfC는 거의 RfC를 닫게 된다.무의미한RfC의 확정 정산된 부분을 재심의하는 코멘트가 엄격히 범위를 벗어났다는 것을 명확히 하는 논의를 촉진할 수 있는 방법을 알고 있는가?(그것은 진정한 질문이다; 만약 그것이 존재한다면, 그것은 정확히 필요한 것이다.)
    해당 편집(MOS:EGG 문제를 해결하기 위해 위키링크의 범위를 변경)이 해당 용어의 가장 엄격한 정의에 따라 사소한 것으로 표시되었을 것이라는 점을 고려할 때, 이러한 가드레일이 없는 논의는 "이것이 이전 RfC의 결과를 제정하는 유효한 방법인가?"에 대한 RfC를 요구하면서 교착 상태가 될 것으로 거의 보장된다.f RfC는 출발점으로만 간주될 수 있었을 뿐, 후속 RfC는 필연적으로 방금 닫힌 RfC와 정확히 같은 방식으로 분해될 것이다.그 길은 편집자들의 엄청난 에너지 낭비가 될 것 같다.S 마샬, 만약 네가 어떤 관점이나 조언이 있다면, 나는 너의 소식이 궁금할 거야.널 진흙탕에 끌어들이고 싶진 않지만, 네가 닫기 위해서는 네가 진흙탕에 이를 좀 줘야 할지도 몰라.{{u Sdkb}} 02:44, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
미국 정치는 너무 맹렬해서 진보를 하기가 매우 어렵다.다른 사람들이 여기서 말하는 것을 보면 당신은 아마도 구체적인 표현이 무엇이어야 하는지에 대한 새로운 RFC가 필요할 것이다.RFC 질문에서 우리가 이미 결정한 것을 분명히 하고 "더 빠른 달걀" 링크가 현상임을 주목하라.편집자들은 이전의 문제를 다시 조사하려고 할 것이지만 당신은 그러한 어떤 행동도 안전하게 무시할 수 있다.RFC가 문을 닫는 사업을 하는 사람은 아무도 그걸 중요시하지 않을 거야.—S MarshallT/C 09:04, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
불행하게도, 나쁜 믿음을 가정하고 여기에 대 토크 페이지에 내용 분쟁을 가져옴으로써 Sdkb는 많은 선의를 불태웠으며, 이는 합의된 텍스트를 토론하는 것을 더 쉽게 만들었을지도 모른다.에그에 대해서는, 디폴트 버전에 있는 것에 동의하지만, 컨센서스 지원이 있다고 가정하는 것에 주의해야 한다.그것은 오해의 소지가 있는 연결고리로, 그 문장을 읽는 많은, 나 자신도 그 문장이 어디로 가는지 깨닫지 못할 수 있다.나는 한 편집자가 링크를 지지하기 위해 텍스트를 변경하려고 했지만, 실패했을 때 기사 속에 있다는 것을 알았다.게다가, 내가 마무리를 읽은 것은 남부 전략에 대한 언급이나 연계를 강요하지 않는다.내가 말했듯이, 나는 문장의 평범한 텍스트 의미는 괜찮지만 원본이나 Sdkb의 파란색으로 바뀐 것은 링크 대상을 지지하지 않는다.이 시점에서 만약 Sdkb가 앞으로 나아가기를 원한다면, 그들은 현재 이슈를 다루는 주도적 변화를 제안하기 위해 토크 페이지를 이용하기 위해 선의의 노력을 기울일 것을 제안할 것이다.스프링키 (토크) 11:54, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 프로세스에 대한 의도되지 않은 코멘트 RfC를 닫는 관리자는 콘텐츠의 중재자가 되지 않는다.최종 관리자가 편집이 마감에 위반된다고 느끼지 않는다고 해서 편집이 WP로부터 면제되는 것은 아니다.BRD. 프로세스에서는 편집자가 변경을 제안해야 토론을 열 수 있다.--v/r - TP 17:48, 2020년 4월 10일(UTC)[응답]
  • 그러나 다시 말하지만, 아무도 표면적으로는 문제의 편집에 이의를 제기하지 않았기 때문에 이것은 무관하다.편집 전쟁은 이미 존재했지만, 그 후 Sdkb의 편집이라고 주장된 링크에 대한 것이었다.이 문제는 닫히고 내가 복구한 버전에서 논의되어야 한다(Sdkb 또는 Springee가 현상 버전을 변경하기 전).\\ 03:06, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 토론은 기사토크 페이지로 옮겨야 할 것 같아.나는 기만적인 연결고리가 이미 존재했다는 것에 동의하지만, 기만적인 연결이 답이 아닌 것처럼 새로운 연결고리로 그것을 "수정"한다.당신의 긴 스탠딩 버전으로의 복귀는 토론을 시작하기에 좋은 곳이다.이걸 닫고 넘어가야 해.스프링키 (토크) 11:54, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

레코드 레이블 아티클의 익명 편집자에 의한 질책, 토론 없음

위의 익명의 사용자는 4월 6일 이후 나와 브링크스터넷 양쪽에서 상기 기사의 주제의 비고지적인 하위 라벨을 계속해서 반복적으로 다듬어 왔다.목록을 복원할 때마다 신뢰할 수 있는 WP:2차 소스가 제시되었다.WP:ASPERSIONS는 편집자가 모든 제거가 반달리즘이거나 불신임이라고 주장했기 때문에 여기에 적용된다.최근 Talk에서 편집자를 기존 토론에 참여시키려는 시도:스핀닌 레코드#서브라벨스가 실패했다.이것은 되돌릴 때 논의하려는 노력 없이 계속해서 애논의 의제가 될 것으로 보이며, 그들은 그들의 행동으로 WP:3RR에 매우 근접하고 있다.잘렌 폴프 (대화) 04:30, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 되돌아갔다.어떻게 되나 보자.드레이미스 (대화) 05:13, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 보호 일지에 따르면, 기사에 활기찬 편집이 있었던 것은 이번이 처음이 아니므로, 약간의 반보호로 대화가 가능한지 알아보자.톰스타81 (토크) 05:40, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
드레이즈 체육관 2학년
    • 좋아, 톰스타81, 내가 시작할게.81년생 도로인가? 아니면 생년월인가?나는 1981년에 체육관 2학년이었다.아마도 그 무렵 나는 언어에 관심을 갖기 시작했을 것이다.네 차례야!드레이미스 (대화) 13:56, 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
      • I'm afraid I was still in the planning stages in 81, blueprints and construction on me didn't start until a few years later :) As for the 81, as noted on my talk page, I had a site registration that required a two digit number and 77 was taken so I picked 81 on the grounds that 8-1=7, and thats how I got my number ;) TomStar81 (Talk) 06:39, 11 April 2020(UTC)[응답하라]

징기스칸의 MOS:NOETHNICGALLERY 위반 가능성

추푸샹은 최근 칭기즈칸 기사에 민족 화랑을 만들었다.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genghis_Khan&diff=950234466&oldid=950234342

이것은 그의 편집 요약이었다.

후난201p(토크)에 의한 950234342 개정은 하지 않은 채, 주제가 붉은 머리의 몽고인을 이야기하고 있다면, 붉은 머리의 몽고인을 찍은 사진을 가지고 있는 것이 타당할 것이다 - 기사에서 그것이 정당화되지 않았다고 하는 것은 우스꽝스러운 것 같다.

나는 화랑을 제거했고, 추푸상이 복권했다.


https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genghis_Khan&oldid=950235576

추푸상은 다음과 같은 편집 요약을 했다.나는 대담하게 그가 인종 갤러리를 만들었다고 말했다.

내 입장은, 만약 당신이 붉은 머리의 몽골인에 대한 논쟁적인 의견에 대한 섹션을 포함시키려면, 그들을 묘사하는 분명한 기존의 이미지를 주는 것이 필수적이다. 그렇지 않다면, 왜 그 부분을 아예 포함시키는가?게다가 나는 이것에 대한 POV가 무엇인지 알지 못한다. 그것은 단지 독자들에게 더 많은 정보를 제공하는 것이다. 더 나아가 그것들은 논쟁의 여지가 있는 진술의 근원에서 나온 이미지들이다.


그리고 나서 나는 그에게 이 갤러리가 MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES 위반이라고 알리고 그것을 제거했다.그러나 그는 즉시 복직시켰지만 "갤러리" 섹션 타이틀은 없었다.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genghis_Khan&oldid=950237845#Physical_appearance

나는 그 갤러리를 두 번째로 제거했고 그는 그것을 복직시켰는데, MOS:NOETHNICGALLERYS 규칙 " only"가 민족성 기사에만 적용되어야 한다고 제안했다.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genghis_Khan&diff=950240179&oldid=950239597

비록 그가 그 의견을 말하기 전에 "갤러리" 부문 타이틀을 삭제한 것이 그가 전에는 그것을 믿지 않았음을 나타내긴 하지만, 그의 말이 맞을 수도 있다.

I would like to get the insight from ANI whether or not Qiufushang's placement of ~100 Mongols as a gallery in the section of the Genghis Khan constitutes a violation of NOETHNICGALLERIES, as well as whether or not this constitutes excessive POV, as none of the images are of Genghis Khan. - Hunan201p (talk) 00:25, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

나에 대한 토론을 시작하는 동안 후난201p는 이 시간 현재 나의 토크 페이지에 공지하지 않았다는 점에 유의한다.치슈팡 (대화) 00:30, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
이제 그는 가지고 있다.치슈팡 (대화) 00:30, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
어, 아니, 네 토크 페이지의 날짜는 분명히 내가 2020년 4월 11일 00:27(UTC)에 알려줬다는 것을 나타내고 있어. 네가 첫 번째 고발을 하기 3분 전이고 내가 이 보고서를 올린 지 2분 후에 말이야.추우푸샹은 지난 한 시간여 동안 지나치게 침울하고 함께 일하기 어려웠음을 유의하고자 한다. - 후난201p (대화) 00:35, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

화랑에 대해 왈가왈부할 필요 없어.그 사진들과 후난201p 편집은 제거되어야 한다.나는 그가 Rashid-al-Din을 저널 Lkhagvasuren (2016년 연구)에서 출처했기 때문에 Hunn201p 편집을 제안한다. 이 연구를 수행한 연구자들은 그들이 많은 확신이 없는 가정을 했다는 것을 인정한다.

14세기 초에 쓰여진 "자미의 알타와리크"에서 라시드알딘의 칭기즈칸에 대한 물리적 묘사(인용)는 어디에 있는가?

징기스칸의 유일하게 실생활 물리적 설명 전기 작가 폴 Rachtnevskyhttps://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA433&dq=Zhao+Hong+genghis+khan+Paul+Ratchnevsky+tall+long+beard&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDi_Ge_dDoAhVRQEEAHYlvCQ8Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Zhao홍 genghis 칸 폴 Ratchnevsky 탈놀이에 따르면.나는 긴 beard&, f=false}}

중국인 자오홍은 다음과 같이 쓰고 있다: "타타르족의 통치자인 테무친은 키가 크고 장엄한 키에 이마가 넓고 수염이 길다.그의 용기와 힘은 비범하다.:

"주자니는 [페르시아 북서부, 1220년, 50대 후반의 나이로] 호라산 전투 중에 자신을 본 목격자의 증언에 따르면, 징기스칸은 키, 힘찬 체격, 강한 변태, 백발의 부족, 고양이의 눈매로 구별되었다고 말한다." — 퀸플츠(대화 기여) 01:52, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 사전 서명되지 않은 논평

나는 질투를 던질 사람이 아니지만, 우연히 이 토론을 알게 된 새로 등록된 편집자는 약간의 빨간 깃발을 올린다. --Kinu c/ 01:55, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
@Kinu: 현재 SPI에서 추푸샹에 대한 미트푸페트리 조사가 존재한다.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Qiushufang#11_April_2020 - 후난201p (대화) 02:25, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이것은 행동적인 것 보다는 내용적인 논쟁처럼 보인다.토크 페이지와 WP:DR이 이것에 더 적합하다.편집-워링이라면 [[WP:NEWN]은 다음을 위한 것이다.마크H21talk 02:07, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]


확인하십시오.난 위키피디아에 완전히 익숙하지 않아. 난 양말 공급도 아니고 뭐 그런 것도 아니야.후난201p는 내가 치슈팡과 같다고 비난한다.나는 치슈팡이 편집한 화랑의 철거와 후난201p의 묘사의 철거를 제안했다.어떻게 치우수강과 같은 사람이냐?두 분다 옳지 않습니다.

징기스칸의 신체적 외모 부분을 본 적이 있는데, 이런 말도 안 되는 것에 대한 설명서가 어디 있는지 궁금하다-> 페르시아 역사학자 라시드 알딘은 자미의 알타와리크(크로니클스의 비교)에서 징기스칸과 그의 남성 라인 조상이 키가 컸고, 붉은 머리였다고 말했다.그는 또한 그들이 청록색 눈을 가졌고, 긴 수염을 가졌다고 말했다.이것에 대한 역사적 인용구는 어디에 있는가?

그는 2016년 연구를 이용했는데, 그 연구는 아스팔트로 가득했다.

징기스칸의 라시드 알 딘에 대한 폭정은 이와 같다, 붉은 머리와 푸른 눈에 대한 것은 아무것도 아니다.“It so happened that two months prior to Mögä’s [the son of Kublai’s nurse] birth, Qubilai Qa’an [Kublai Khan] was born, and when Genghis Khan’s gaze fell upon him he said, “Our [Chinggis Khan’s] sons are all of a ruddy complexion, but this boy [Kublai] is swarthy, just like his maternal uncles.소르카프타니 베키[쿠빌라이의 어머니]에게 그를 좋은 간호사에게 맡겨 길러 달라고 전해라." -라시드 알딘/택스턴 번역, 415번역.

" 우연히 뫼게 두 달 전에 태어났고, 칭기즈칸의 눈이 그에게로 떨어졌을 때, 그는 이렇게 말했다."우리 아이들은 모두 혈색이 좋지 않지만, 이 아이는 외삼촌처럼 불그스름하다.소르코크타니 베키에게 좋은 간호사에게 양육을 맡기라고 전해라." -라시드 알딘/보일 번역, 241. — 퀸플츠(토크 기여)가 추가한 선행 미서명 코멘트 03:28, 2020년 4월 11일(UTC)[응답]

이 편집 분쟁의 해결을 용이하게 하기 위해 나는 전쟁 전 상태를 복원하고 3일 동안 기사를 완전히 보호했다.--Ymblanter (대화) 08:19, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
그러한 성격의 부당한 갤러리들을 떨어뜨리는 가장 좋은 방법 WP:갤러리 , WP:DUE ... 게다가 갤러리 자체로는 단지 문제일 뿐이다.ACCIM...일부에게 잠재적인 접근성 문제를 야기할 타당한 이유가 필요했다.--Moxy 🍁 08:57, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Eliboy258

사용자 생성:Eliboy258 (해체) -- User place에 있는데 혹시나 해서 여기서 이렇게 쪽지를 떨어뜨리고 있는지 조차 모르겠다. -- GreenC 16:16, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

NBA 기사를 여러 곳에 복사/붙여넣는 것 같다 - 사용자:일라이보이258.그들은 또한 여기서 GreenCbot을 망쳤다.나는 그것이 WP인지 아닌지 모르겠다.NOTHERE 또는 WP:CIR은 감시할 수 있다.마넷DTAK 17:08, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
로트를 지우고 카피비오에 대해 경고했어케임브리지베이날씨, 우카크투크(토크), 수나스투크 17:18, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:MountainTraveler

소싱되지 않은 콘텐츠와 원본 연구를 추가한 이력이 있다.[58]

또한 소스가 말하지 않는 내용으로 내용을 바꾸고 있다.그리고 이것이 그들에게 알려지자, "나는 상관하지 않는다.그들은 틀렸다."[59]

나는 그들이 위키피디아에 긍정적으로 기여할 수 있을지 확신할 수 없다.Doc James (대화 · 기여 · 이메일) 22:04, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]


아니, 난 못 봤어.케타민 하나밖에 없는 거잖아다른 때 나는 이미 그곳에 있거나 새로운 소스를 추가했다.당신은 케타민에 대해 계속해서 사람들에게 잘못된 정보를 제공할 수 있다.어차피 관심 있는 페이지가 아니니까 신경 안 써. MountainTraveler(대화 기여) 22:06, 2020년 4월 11일(UTC)[응답]

케타민에 대한 편집은 정말 나쁜 생각인 것 같아.WP 참조:위닝.
@MountainTraveler:그럼 케타민에 대한 파열적인 편집은 그만 할 거야?에버그린피르 (대화) 22:09, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자의 토크 페이지에 경고가 표시되지만 여기서 다시 강조하기 위해 경고가 표시됨 - 출처를 잘못 전달해서는 안 된다.그 규칙을 지키지 않으면 제재를 받을 수 있다.El_C 22:10, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
그러나 이 문제는 그 페이지를 넘어서는 것이다.여기 그들은 참조되지 않은 세부사항들을 너트메그에 추가하고 있다.[60]
그리고 여기서 그들은 자료의 사용을 거부한다.[61] 문서 제임스 (대화 · 기여 · 이메일) 22:17, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
마운틴트 트래블러, 당신이 추가한 모든 의료정보에는 MEDRS 품질의 소스가 첨부되어 있어야 귀인할 수 있다.소싱되지 않았거나 소싱이 제대로 되지 않은 편집은 간단히 할 수 없다.El_C 22:20, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
카스리버는 상주하는 버섯 구루-FA 작가/의학 편집자/의학자이기 때문에, 아마도 그는 버섯 기사와 환각제에 대한 이 편집자의 모든 역사를 검토할 것이다.샌디조지아 (토크) 22:23, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
여러분 모두는 방금 여러분을 화나게 한 편집자를 돕기 위해 너무 많은 시간을 보내고 있다.--v/r - TP 22:30, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그럴 수도 있지, 하지만 캐스가 버섯 주제에 대한 편집 내용을 없애고 싶어할까 봐 걱정이야.샌디조지아 (토크) 22:33, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그들이 이미 가지고 있는 과거의 추가들을 제거하는 것뿐만 아니라, 그들이 앞으로 계속해서 비소싱적이거나 형편없는 내용을 추가하지 않도록 하는 것이 더 중요하다고 생각한다.El_C 22:36, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 한번 볼게.일요일 아침 여기 와서 집안일을 좀 해야 하니까 좀 늦을지도 몰라.캐스 리버 (토크 · 기여) 22:43, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

위키호링

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:관리자인 에글레스247이 며칠째 나를 윽박지르고 있다.내가 만드는 모든 편집, 모든 합법적이고 선한 것, 사소한 것, 사소한 것, 사소한 것, 또는 중대한 것, 이글스247은 단지 몇 가지 예를 위해 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기, 여기, 그리고 여기, 여기, 그리고 여기, 그리고 여기, 그리고 여기, 그리고 여기, 그리고 여기, 그리고 여기,그는 또한 여기서 본 것처럼 나의 토크 페이지에 올라가고 인신공격도 남긴다.나는 그를 대변하고 그의 동기를 추측하려고 하지 않는다.그러나 위키호킹의 증거는 압도적이다.(WP:DAPE도 참조).편집자940 (대화) 01:31, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 페이지에서 무엇을 하고 있는가?만약 그것이 필터 편집을 유발한다면, 물론 누군가가 찾아올 것이다.그리고 당신이 당신의 편집 카운트를 게임으로 삼으려 한다는 결론은 그 자체를 암시한다.이글스247은 당신의 편집의 질이나 어쩌면 의심스러운 동기에 의지한 것 보다 덜 "호킹"하며, 당신을 훌륭하게 주시하고 있는 것 같다.관리자 특정 사용자 상자를 포함한 그의 사용자 페이지를 복사하는 것으로 시작했으므로, 그의 관심을 받는 것에 놀라지 말아야 한다...--Elmidae(토크 · 기여) 01:53, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 WP이다.여기에 약간 포함되었지만, 나는 에디터940이 또한 이글스247에 의해 특별히 보호되는 페이지를 표적으로 삼고 그 후 코멘트를 제거하기 위해 여기서 본 것처럼 이글스247을 찾고 있다고 말할 것이다.나는 또한 당신이 개인적으로 공격받지 않았다고 덧붙이겠지만, 당신이 복수를 한 은 분명하다.히코리코우트셔츠?4 (토크) 02:00, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
@HickoryTought?4:나는 당신이 트롤링하고 있는지, 아니면 실제로 진지하게 생각하고 있는지 모르겠다. 왜냐하면 당신이 연결한 것들은 아무것도 증명하지 못하기 때문이다.2월 7일 이후로 편집되지 않았기 때문에 제이슨 개럿 페이지를 덜 보호해 달라고 요청하는 것이 내가 그를 잡으러 나온 증거라고?Editor940에 의해 추가된 이전의 서명되지 않은 주석(토크기여)
제발, 친구.네가 너무 빠르고 겸손하게 블록을 극복하는 모습을 보니 차갑고 죽은 내 마음이 따뜻해졌어.이렇게 끝나는 건 보고 싶지 않아.—{ CrypticCanadian } 02:12, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 공간 위반

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


그렇지 않고, 이것도 엄청나다. (비관리자 폐쇄)——SN54129 13:08, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.

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  18. 혹시 아십니까...인도가 11월 26일을 제헌절 기념일로 기념한다고?(2015년 12월 20일)
  19. 혹시 아십니까...2015년 방콕 하프마라톤이 '세계 최장 하프마라톤'으로 불렸다고?(2016년 1월 4일)
  20. 혹시 아십니까...마하라슈트라 정부의 마나브 비카스 사절단이 마을 여자아이들을 위한 무료 버스 서비스를 그들의 고향 마을에서부터 그들의 학교까지 제공한다고?(2016년 1월 5일)
  21. 혹시 아십니까...2013년까지 시리아 관광산업의 수입이 2011년 시리아 내전 발발 이후 94% 감소했다고?(2016년 1월 5일)
  22. 혹시 아십니까...공식적으로 금지된 술에도 불구하고, 아프가니스탄의 포도밭이 오스트리아보다 더 넓은 지역을 덮고 있다고?(2016년 1월 10일)
  23. 혹시 아십니까...2015년에 인도 위스키 오피셜 초이스가 세계 최대의 판매 정신 브랜드가 되었다고?(2016년 1월 15일) (위키피아의 15번째 생일)
  24. 혹시 아십니까...콜카타 마라톤 상금을 받을 자격이 있는 인도 국민들만?(2016년 1월 27일)
  25. 혹시 아십니까...인도 위스키 로얄 스태그가 퍼노드 리카드의 가장 많이 팔리는 브랜드라고?(2016년 2월 2일)
  26. 혹시 아십니까...남수단이 세계 두 번째로 큰 동물 이주를 하고 있지만 이를 관광객이 없다는 것?(2016년 2월 4일)
  27. 혹시 아십니까...내슈빌있는 스톤 홀은 한때 캔트렐 가문의 개인 주택이었으나 현재 국가 사적지 등록부에 등재되어 있다고? (2016년 2월 11일)
  28. 혹시 아십니까...보조 간호사 산파가 인도에서 마을 수준의 여성 보건 요원이고 지역 사회와 보건 서비스 사이의 첫 번째 접촉자 역할을 하고 있다고?(2016년 2월 15일)

  1. 혹시 아십니까...인도의 라다크 마라톤이 세계에서 가장 높은 곳이라는 것은? (2015년 10월 9일)
  2. 혹시 아십니까...마랏와다가 인도의 독립 13개월 후인 1948년 9월 17일에 해방될 때까지 인도의 일부가 되지 않았다는 것을?(2015년 10월 26일)
  3. 혹시 아십니까...인도 우르두 시인 알레 아흐마드 수루어인도파키스탄의 대통령들로부터 영예를 안았다고? (2015년 11월 14일)
  4. 혹시 아십니까...바바라 오클리의 저서 병리학적 이타주의(Pathological Altruism)가 이타주의와 공감의 부정적인 측면을 탐구한다고? (2015년 11월 19일)
  5. 혹시 아십니까...인도네시아의 양주 가격이 2009년에서 2014년까지 154.4% 인상되었다? (2015년 11월 22일)
  6. 혹시 아십니까...슬로베니아에서 주권은 공휴일이지만 일거리가 없는 날은 아니라고?(2015년 11월 23일)
  7. 혹시 아십니까...인도와 라오스양자 무역이 2008년에서 2013년까지 17배 증가했다고? (2015년 11월 24일)
  8. 혹시 아십니까...아즈텍에 대한 종교적 중요성 때문에 스페인 식민지 당국에 의해 고대 그레인마란스(사진)의 재배가 금지되었다고?(2015년 11월 27일)
  9. 혹시 아십니까...콜롬보 마라톤이 스리랑카에서 가장 오래된 마라톤이라고?(2015년 11월 30일)
  10. 혹시 아십니까...유네스코가 최근 예멘문화 유적지를 파괴로부터 보호하기 위해 비상 행동 계획을 선포한 것은?(2015년 12월 03년)
  11. 혹시 아십니까...캄보디아의 앙코르와트 국제 하프 마라톤은 1996년 일본 올림피아 유코 아리모리 감독이 도입했다고?(2015년 12월 03년)
  12. 혹시 아십니까...현재 진행 중인 IS와의 전쟁으로 이라크 관광이 위험하다고?(2015년 12월 4일)
  13. 혹시 아십니까...2014년 인도네시아 자카르타 마라톤 대회에서 아프리카에서 에볼라가 발생했기 때문에 제한된 수의 아프리카 선수들이 초청되었다고? (2015년 12월 14일)
  14. 혹시 아십니까...19개국에서 온 사람들이 비자 없이 카자흐스탄방문할 수 있다고 생각하는가?(2015년 12월 16일)
  15. 혹시 아십니까...2015년 방콕 하프마라톤이 '세계 최장 하프마라톤'으로 불렸다고?(2016년 1월 4일)
  16. 혹시 아십니까...마하라슈트라 정부의 마나브 비카스 사절단이 마을 여자아이들을 위한 무료 버스 서비스를 그들의 고향 마을에서부터 그들의 학교까지 제공한다고?(2016년 1월 5일)
  17. 혹시 아십니까...2013년까지 시리아 관광산업의 수입이 2011년 시리아 내전 발발 이후 94% 감소했다고?(2016년 1월 5일)
  18. 혹시 아십니까...공식적으로 금지된 술에도 불구하고, 아프가니스탄의 포도밭이 오스트리아보다 더 넓은 지역을 덮고 있다고?(2016년 1월 10일)
  19. 혹시 아십니까...콜카타 마라톤 상금을 받을 자격이 있는 인도 국민들만?(2016년 1월 27일)
  20. 혹시 아십니까...남수단이 세계 두 번째로 큰 동물 이주를 하고 있지만 이를 관광객이 없다는 것?(2016년 2월 4일)
  21. 혹시 아십니까...내슈빌있는 스톤 홀은 한때 캔트렐 가문의 개인 주택이었으나 현재 국가 사적지 등록부에 등재되어 있다고? (2016년 2월 11일)
  22. 혹시 아십니까...보조 간호사 산파가 인도에서 마을 수준의 여성 보건 요원이고 지역 사회와 보건 서비스 사이의 첫 번째 접촉자 역할을 하고 있다고?(2016년 2월 15일)

WP를 위반하는 경우:SOAPWP:UP#PROMO사용자 변경:출신 휴먼아예샤

안녕하십니까, 2016년 발렌타인데이에 여자친구 한 명을 추모하기 위해 만든 휴먼3015의 대체 계정 입니다.

안녕, 이것은 Human3015의 대체 계정이야.

WP를 위반하는 경우:NOTFORUM. 119.160.64.23 (대화) 13:05, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

프란시스 숄켄의 반지지반복 및 편집

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


안녕, 오늘 나는 Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir를 검토했고 문제를 위해 태그를 달았다.그는 토크 페이지에서 논의도 하지 않고 내 태그를 되돌렸으며 나에게 토론의 기회를 달라고 핑크를 보냈다(다(diff 참조.나는 침착하게 그의 토크 페이지에 그 이유를 설명하는 실을 덧붙이며 응수했다.그러나 직접 편집(디프)을 되짚으며 토론을 위해 몸을 펴지 않았다.토론을 다시 시작하기 위해, 나는 새로운 스레드를 여는 것이 불필요하다고 느끼기 때문에 편집을 취소했다. 그리고 내 원래 메시지가 추가 토론(디프)을 용이하게 하기 위해 표시되기를 바란다.나는 내가 왜 되돌렸는지 설명하고, 그가 이 일을 한 경력(디프 1, 디프프 2)이 있으니 토론 없이 동의하지 않는 것을 되돌리지 말아 달라고 부탁했다.그러자 그는 다시 되돌아가서 나를 편집 전쟁이라고 비난하고 대신 기사의 토크 페이지를 이용하라고 하면서 자신의 토크 페이지에서는 나를 환영하지 않는다고 말했는데, 그것은 내가 기사가 아니라 그의 복귀에 대해 이야기하고 있기 때문에 관련이 없다.그의 행동은 지지적이지 않고 토론 없이 편집을 되돌리는 그의 행동은 부적절하고 파괴적이다.고마워요.위키에이비에이터 (대화) 14:48, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

위키에이비에이터, 그 일은 네가 잘못 처리했어.기사의 내용과 관련이 있을 때(그리고 당신은 내 입장에서 행동적인 발언을 하지 않을 경우), 이 문제는 기사의 토크 페이지에 제기되어야 하며, 내 사용자의 토크 페이지가 아니다.내가 그러한 메시지를 삭제했을 때, 편집 요약에서 명확한 설명을 곁들여, 되돌리지 않는 것은 당신에게 달려있다. 그것은 WP이다.BRD 오류(내 되돌림 단계는 BRD 대신 BRR을 되돌리는 되돌림 단계였습니다.)그래서 나는 당신의 재반전에 대해 행동적인 발언을 했다. 나는 당신의 사용자 토크 페이지에 게시했다.
나의 사용자 토크 페이지는 과거에 불건전한 관심을 끌었고, 그래서 나는 실제로 거기에 속하지 않는 메시지로부터 그것을 깨끗하게 유지하려고 노력한다. --Francis Schonken (talk) 14:57, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
프랜치스는 태그 제거에 대한 명확한 근거를 제시했고, 반대로 태그를 처음 배치할 때는 토크 페이지 토론을 열었어야 했다.게다가, 프란시스의 말이 맞아. 이건 기사에 대한 토론이니까, 토론은 기사화 페이지에 있는 거야. 대신 기사의 토크 페이지를 쓰라고 하는 너의 주장은, 내가 복귀에 대해 말하는 거니까, 잘못된아니야.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 15:04, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
@그랑팔라마:태그 지정은 자기 설명적인 것이기 때문에 토크 페이지 토론이 필요하지 않아, 나는 네가 그것에 대해 확실히 하기를 바란다.단, 반달리즘이나 카피비오나 어떤 행위 문제와 관련이 없는 반전은 논의되어야 한다.그가 되돌아가는 사람이고 기사를 만드는 사람이기 때문에 나는 이것을 의 토크 페이지에 가져오고 싶다. 왜냐하면 나는 그가 그의 복귀를 설명하기를 원하기 때문이다. 그러나 기사 토크 페이지는 페이지를 어떻게 개선할 것인가를 위해 남겨져 있는데, 그는 왜 나의 태그가 중복되어 있는지 목소리를 낼 수 있었다.고마워요.위키에이비에이터 (대화) 15:10, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
그 태그는 전혀 자기 설명이 되지 않았다.공급되지 않은 콘텐츠는 무엇이었습니까?잘못된 태그를 추가하지 않으면 되돌리지 않지만, 되돌릴 경우, 기사 대화 페이지가 될 수 있다.네 행동은 몇 가지 점에서 잘못됐고 프란시스 숄켄의 행동은 완벽히 옳았어.이것은 자신이 무엇을 하고 있는지 알고 있는 사람들이 전혀 알 수 없는 바쁜 몸가짐으로 인해 혼란에 빠지는 또 하나의 예일 뿐이다.필 브리저 (대화) 15:45, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
@WikiAviator:당신은 원래 이 기사에 비협조적이라고 꼬리표를 붙였다.그것은 프랜치스가 소싱을 추가하면서 모든 것이 이제 소싱되었다는 분명한 편집 요약과 함께 다루어졌다.그리고 나서 당신은 거의 즉시 더 나은 출처가 필요하다고 말하는 태그를 추가했다.그것은 토크페이지에 대한 토론이 필요하다. 나는 가 그것에 대해 확실히 하기를 바란다.네가 말한 다른 모든 것은 똑같이 잘못되었다.만약 당신이 어떤 기사를 토론하고 싶다면, 그 기사의 토크 페이지에서 그것을 하라.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 18:07, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
필 브리저가 한 말.위키에이비에이터, 여기는 단 한 사람만이 잘못이고, 누구인지는 자네를 제외한 모든 사람이 알 수 있다.무지개빛 15:47, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 위키에이비에이터의 태그 지정은 그들의 토크 페이지가 증명하듯이 분명히 문제가 있다.며칠 전 그들이 CSD에 기고한 것은 분명 자격이 없다는 것을 알게 되었지만, 그들은 내 코멘트에 응답한 적이 없었고, 나는 그들이 기내에서 기사를 가져간 적이 없다고 생각한다.계속하면 주제 금지가 순서일 것이다.---임블란터 (대화) 19:18, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
여기서 위키에비에이터만 탓할 수는 없을 것 같다.근본적인 문제는 그것을 요구하는 사람에게만 '새로운 페이지 순찰'권을 부여해, 위키피디아에 무엇이 있는지 전혀 모르는 사람들이 좋은 편집자의 작품을 표식하고, 그들이 기사에 붙인 태그를 읽고 이해하지도 못하는 상황을 초래한다는 것이다.필 브리저 (대화)19:35, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
나도 동의해, 하지만 할 수 있는 일이 별로 없어.권리 부여에 대한 공식적인 지침은 90일간의 재임기간과 메인 스페이스 500개 편집이다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 20:09, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위키백과에서 #2 지점도 참조하십시오.새로운 페이지 순찰/검토자#취소 지침, "편집자는 페이지를 검토할 때 충분한 주의를 기울이지 않는 패턴을 보였다." 에드존스턴 (대화) 20:27, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
분명히, 위키에이비에이터는 그들의 사용자 토크페이지에서 사과했고, 나는 그것을 받아들이는 것은 나에게 달려있기 때문에 사과를 받아들였다.내가 아는 한 이 사건은 종결될 수 있다. --프랜시스 숄켄 (대화) 05:30, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

블록 검토 요청

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

누군가 내 블록을 검토하지 않을 수 있을까? 내 블록은 결국SPI에서 비롯된다.나에게 이것은 완전히 명확한 WP이다.DOK 사례—나는 두 관계없는 사람들이 모두 같은 괴팍한 언어와 형식적인 틱을 공유할 뿐만 아니라, 대만 인구통계학에서 몽텔루카스트, 원피스의 등장인물 목록카오슝에 이르는 매우 모호한 관심사들을 공유한다는 것은 상상할 수 없는 사실이지만, 이 사건은 논쟁하고 싶어하는 것처럼 보인다.그 블록이 부적절하다고 느끼는 사람이 있을 것 같지 않은 경우, 당신은 나와 상의하지 않고 그것을 뒤집을 것에 대한 나의 명시적인 동의를 얻는다.무지개빛 12:23, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

@Iridescent: 복습했고 내게는 좋은 블록처럼 보인다.나는 그들의 무차단 요청을 거절했다.57번 12:33, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
SPI에 대한 CU 요청을 승인했다.카바이(대화) 12시 43분, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
덕키 맥덕페이스와 새끼 오리새끼들 보다 더 멍청하다.보잉! 제베디(토크)가 2020년 4월 14일(UTC) 12시 46분이라고 말했다[응답하라].
  • 이것은 나의 (비행정가 논평)이지만, 나는 양말 맞추기에 있어서는 상당히 좋은 거미감각을 가지고 있다.여러 가지 계정에 대해 많은 역사를 따라다니며 그들이 다양한 토론에 참여하는 것을 본 나의 거미가 느끼는 경험은 클랙슨만큼 팅팅팅한 것이 아니다.확실히 좋은 블록이다. --보나데아 기고문은 2020년 4월 14일 12시 53분 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 지금 보고 있는데 조금 있다가 SPI에서 보고할 건데, 지금까지는 딱 들어맞아니다.이거 닫아? -- Zzuzz 12:57, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Copyvio의 Central 인재 예약

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


Central Talents Boosting에 카피비오 리배송해 줄 사람을 불러올 수 있을까?copyvio를 포함하는 편집은 사용자가 수행했다.Clareb2020 그리고 여기서 납치되었다.고마워요.카피비오인 만큼 이를 처리할 수 있도록 여러 가지 수단에 게시.Tknifton (대화) 16:18, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

임블란터해냈다.~ 마즈카 16:35, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

무바시르시데014

무바시르시드014(공헌)는 자신의 편집 내용을 사소한 것으로 표시하고 잘못된 편집 요약을 사용하고 있다.이 문제에 대해 두 번 경고를 받은 적이 있다. 사용자 대화:무바시르시드014#2020년 4월; 그는 4월 9일에 그것을 중단하기로 동의했지만, 계속한다.

토디1 (대화) 09:45, 2020년 4월 11일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 여전히 잘못된 편집 요약을 사용하여 중요한 내용을 게시하고 있으며, 부분 편집 확인란에 체크 표시를 하고 있다.
토디1 (토크) 07:59, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
31시간 동안 차단했는데, 토크 페이지에는 그들이 오래 있지 않다고 나와 있어.--Ymblanter (대화) 08:08, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

템플릿 보호에 대한 충돌 편집

WP에서 이동:AIV
– ~ ToBeFree (토크) 20:56, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

Jweiss11 (대화 기여 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 로그필터 로그 차단 사용자 블록 로그) 이것WP를 지적하고 악용하기 위한 순수한 반달리즘이다.템플릿 편집자 권한.그것은 접근성 문제가 있고 전혀 재미있지 않은 다른 사람들을 희생시키는 청소년 묘기다.위키백과 참조:템플릿_editor#Abuse.-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 20:48, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 보통 이것을 WP로 변환했을 것이다.NEW 보고서, 그러나 이것은 매우 섬세하고 지역사회의 의견을 필요로 한다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 20:56, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
관련자:
방해에 대한 내 개인적인 인식에 따라 내림차순으로 정렬된다.수정:롤백은 정당해 보인다.충돌의 편집 횟수별로 정렬.~ ToBeFree (토크) 21:01, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 핑을 쳤기 때문에 여기에 응답하고 있다.템플릿 토크에서 이 문제를 논의하게 되어 기쁘다.CBB 연도별 기록 시작 하지만 이 편집은 전혀 용납할 수 없는 묘기였다.만약 다른 사용자들이 나에게 어떤 농담으로 바꾸기보다는 토크 페이지나 여기에서 되돌아가라고 한다면, 나는 기꺼이 할 것이다.-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 21:00, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 고려할 정책 섹션: WP:TPEREVOKE, #1 (패턴?)과 #4 (반달리즘?); "동료 템플릿 편집기로 디스패치" ~ ToBeFree (토크) 21:13, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    Jweiss11은 현재 "반달리즘"은 부인했지만 "주장을 밝히겠다"는 의도를 확인했다.디프/949330876.나는 우리가 Jweiss11이 그들의 특권을 남용하여 주장을 펴왔다고 해도 무방할 것 같다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 21:33, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    나는 우리가 공공 기물 파손에 대한 다른 정의를 가지고 있다고 생각한다.나는 내 편집이 이 문제에 대한 코아프의 접근방식에 문제를 일으켜서 우리가 공동체로 토론에 진출할 수 있기를 바라고 있었다.내 캡션은 캡션이 해야 할 일과 정확히 일치했다. 시각장애인을 위한 텍스트 독자들에게 테이블이 있다고 경고한다.이 경우 기존 디스플레이에 대한 효용이 없다.그것은 단지 불필요한 잡동사니일 뿐이다.Jweiss11 (대화) 21:38, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    Jweiss11, 당신의 답변은 코아프가 주장했던 것에 대한 진정한 오해나 "요점을 만들고, 방해하는" 행동을 계속하는 받아들일 수 있는 비아냥거림을 담고 있는 것 같다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 21:40, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    코아프 씨가 주장했던 내용을 설명해 주시겠습니까?아마도 내가 오해한 것 같다.Jweiss11 (대화) 21:41, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    어떤 HTML 파서라도 "헤드업!이것은 테이블이다!" 또는 테이블의 열기 태그를 마주쳤을 때 다른 텍스트.다른 제목과 마찬가지로 표 캡션도 내용을 몇 단어로 요약한다.표 캡션을 "헤드업!이건 테이블이야!"라고 말하는 것은 "헤드업!"으로 섹션 제목을 대신하는 것과 같다.여긴 구역이야!"당신의 주장은 "시각장애인만이 부문 표제를 필요로 한다"와 유사하다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 21:50, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    ToBeFree, Koavf는 이러한 캡션이 시각장애인을 위한 화면 판독기의 접근을 위해 특별히 필요하다고 주장해왔다.이것이 어떻게 Koavf의 캡션과 Mike Krzzewski#에 렌더링되는지 살펴보십시오.수석코칭 기록.표 앞에 이미 섹션 제목이 있다.Jweiss11 (대화) 21:55, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Jweiss11 ([62][63])에서 본 3RR을 명시적으로 위반하지 않고 편집하는 두 번째 전쟁이다.나는 ToBeFree의 분석에 동의하여 Template 편집기 사용자 perma를 뽑았다.바킵49 (대화) 21:49, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    Barkeep49, 그러니까 합의 없이 오랜 시간 동안 내용을 변경한 다른 편집자를 되돌릴 때 3RR(또는 제재가 적용되는 1RR)을 위반하지 않는 것을 관찰한 것은 이번이 두 번째지요?Jweiss11 (대화) 22:18, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    3RR을 명시적으로 위반하지 않고 당신이 전쟁을 편집하는 것을 관찰한 것은 이번이 두 번째 입니다.당신의 질문의 틀은 3RR만이 편집자가 전쟁을 편집할 수 있는 유일한 방법임을 시사한다.이것은 옳지 않다.바킵49 (대화) 22:32, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 그것이 Jweiss11이 이 분쟁에 참여하는 것에 대한 논의를 끝마친다고 생각한다, 고마워.이제 기자에게 연설하고 싶다.코아프, 넌 아마 가장 경험이 많은 편집자 중 한 명일 거야.대화 페이지에서 적절한 합의를 보지 않고 다른 두 명의 편집자와 템플릿 보호에 대해 계속 되돌릴 필요가 있었는가?RFC나 다른 분쟁 해결 방법이 원하는 명확성을 가져올 수 없었을까?나는 적어도 분쟁에서 당신의 과잉진압에 대한 우려를 언급하지 않고 이 토론을 마무리하는 것이 전적으로 공평하지 않을 것이라고 생각한다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 22:04, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    ToBeFree, 두 번째 귀환은 정당하다는 것을 알게 되었으니, 그 합의는 그것이 옳았다는 것이라고 추측해 보겠다.첫 번째 것은, 위의 "동료 편집자와 함께 디스프레이"에서 언급했듯이, 를 되돌렸고 템플릿 편집자들은 "이것은 복잡하다"는 것을 보여주지 않는 "좋은 이유와 신중한 생각"으로 서로를 되돌려야 하기 때문이다.그와 나는 대화 페이지에서 테이블 캡션에 대해 길게 토론했는데, 문제는 자구의 정확성에 있었다. 나는 새로운 표현을 추가하고 바로 그 새로운 문구에 대한 피드백을 요청하기 위해 대화 페이지에 글을 올렸다.나는 기본 접근성에 대해 여러 번 반복해서 많은 논의를 해왔는데(알트 텍스트, MOS:COLOR, 테이블 캡션, 내부 스크롤, 기본 컨텐츠 등) 지역적 합의를 얻기 위한 시도는 지칠 대로 지친다.우리는 이미 W3C/ARIA의 지침을 처음부터 가지고 있으며, 위키백과 같은 문서로 여기에 지역화 되어 있다.Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Data_tables_tutorial#Properties_table_captions_and_summaries 또는 MOS:SCroll.주어진 상황에서 어떤 자막이나 어떤 종류의 alt 텍스트가 적절한지에 대해 토론하게 되어 기쁘지만, 기본적인 접근성이 세계 최대의 참고 문헌의 특징이어야 한다는 것을 굳이 수천번, 수천번 언급해야 한다고는 생각하지 않는다.내 말이 꺼림칙하게 들린다면, 나는 그렇다.만약 내가 무례하게 보인다면, 용서해줘: 처음부터 이런 것들을 추가하는 것은 무한한 작업이지, 모든 페이지와 템플릿에서 반복해서 그것에 대해 말다툼을 하는 것은 말할 것도 없고.-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 00:24, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    걱정마.나는 이것에 대해 완전히 확신할 수 없으며 적어도 두 개의 다른 템플릿 편집자에 의해 되돌아온 후에 이해 가능한 짜증에도 불구하고 RfC를 통해 지역적인 합의를 구했을 것이다.특수:디프/949317017은 내 취향에 너무 위험해 보인다.한편, 나는 수천 개의 템플릿을 변경하고 같은 논의를 위해 몇 번이고 합의점을 얻어야 하는 실질적인 경험이 부족하다.나는 적어도 Jweiss11의 최종 템플릿 편집이 포함된 모든 페이지에 있는 백과사전에 손상을 입힌 유일한 편집이었다는 것을 알아야 한다.편집 전쟁은 혼란스럽지만, 어떻게든 받아들일 수 있는 두 가지 수정안을 놓고 싸우는 것은 이 보고서로 이어진 편집의 대중적 교란과는 거리가 멀다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 00:37, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    토비프리, 백과사전에 누가 피해를 입혔는지 헷갈리는 것 같다.당분간 우리는 코아프 감독의 방해적인 잡동사니 추가에 충격을 받은 것 같다.나의 편집은 이제 없어졌고 단지 하나의 장치였다(WP의 즉시 실행:코아프와의 솔직한 대화가 벽에 부딪혔을 때 이 문제에 불을 붙이기 위해 무시를 가했다.결론은 이제 이 문제에 대한 RFC를 확보했다는 것인데, 아마도 코아프가 오늘 관련 편집을 하기 전에 이 문제를 시작했어야 했다.Jweiss11 (대화) 01:10, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    Jweiss11, 모든 토론과 허가가 취소된 후 당신의 편집을 이렇게 묘사하는 것은 아마도 일시적인 감정의 결과일 것이며 신뢰에 기반한 특권에 대한 장기적인 부적응의 징후가 아닐 것이다.~ ToBeFree (토크) 02:16, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    보호 템플릿과 관련한 허가 취소가 우리의 집단적 역량을 훼손해 프로젝트를 해치는 성급하고 서투른 조치였다고 생각한다.만약 관련 당사자들이 내가 지난 10년 동안 템플릿을 개발하고 관리해 온 작업량을, 그리고 고집스럽고 둔한 에피소드 동안 의견 일치를 과시했던 또 다른 편집자를 다루는데 있어서, 교훈적이기 위한 하나의 파격적인 편집과 비교할 수 있다면 도움이 될 것이다.Jweiss11 (대화) 05:39, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    AFAIK, 템플릿 편집자 권한은 신뢰할 수 있는 편집자가 템플릿을 편집할 수 있도록 고안되었다.나는 3000페이지 이상의 페이지에 영향을 미치는 템플릿에 해로운 포인트가 되는 편집을 하는 것이 괜찮다고 생각하는 사람에게는 적용되지 않는다고 생각한다. 왜냐하면 그들은 바보같은 p에 앞서서 가능한 해결책에 대해 논의조차 하지 않은 상황에서 단지 스크린 리더를 "클러터"라고 생각한다는 이유만으로 그들을 무시하는 것이 괜찮다고 생각하기 때문이다.위키피디아에 해를 끼친 것 외에는 아무것도 성취하지 못한 연고 편집.템플릿 편집의 핵심은 여러분이 하고 있는 일을 이해하는 것이 많은 페이지에 영향을 미칠 수 있다는 것이고, 그래서 비록 그것이 접근성에 대한 불행한 무시로 행해졌다 하더라도, 보통 순간의 멍청한 열기를 용서받을 수 있는 멍청한 편집은 그렇게 '용서할 수 있는' 것이 아니다.
    그리고 응, 나는 접근성 문제도 큰 문제라서 큰일을 하고 있어.우리는 장애인들 앞에 불필요한 장벽을 세워서는 안 된다.특히 수천 페이지에 영향을 미치는 템플릿을 편집할 때.많은 사람들이 우리가 무언가를 알지 못했기 때문에 실수를 했다.어느 정도, 이러한 것들에 대해 배우는 것은 편집자로서 우리의 책임이지만, 특히 많은 페이지에서 사용되는 템플릿을 편집할 때 그것은 다시 종종 '용서할 수 있는' 것이다.그러나 그것이 우리에게 지적되었을 때 그것을 계속 무시하는 것은 또 다른 일이다.
    접근성처럼 행동하는 사람들에 대한 나의 개인적인 감정이 그들이 걱정할 필요가 없는 것이라는 것을 고려하면, 나 역시 이 대답을 형성할 때 화를 참으려고 애썼다는 것을 주목하라.여전히 나는 수천 페이지에 영향을 미치는 템플릿에 대해 뾰족한 편집을 하지 않았다.
    P.S. 자주 그렇듯이 '왜 토론을 시작하지 않았느냐'는 일반적인 반응도 여기에도 적용된다고 생각한다.양측이 전쟁을 편집하고 양측이 상대측이 논의를 시작할 필요가 있다고 주장하는 것은 일반적으로 절박한 일이다.현상유지는 한 가지지만 궁극적으로 누군가는 논의를 시작할 필요가 있다.그리고 일단 접근성 문제와 뾰족한 편집이 작용하게 되면, 편집 전쟁에서 현상 유지를 위해 노력한다고 알려진 편집자에 대한 어떤 동정심도 어쨌든 창 밖으로 사라진다.
    닐 아인 (대화) 20:03, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 이 논쟁 중에 이 템플릿을 편집한 사람으로 여기 찍혔기 때문에, 나는 응답할 의무를 느낀다.첫째로, 뻔한 것을 말하기 위해, 문제의 편집자는 불쾌하고 도움이 되지 않는, 뾰족한 헤더를 3,000 페이지 이상에 배치했다.Jweiss11분명히 내가 논점을 만들고 있다고 말했는데, 그것은 템플릿 편집자 권리의 목적이 아니다.그 편집은 템플릿 편집자 권한을 가진 사람에게 내가 예상할 수 있는 종류의 행동을 나타내지 않았다.토론의 내용과 테이블을 어떻게 포맷해야 하는지에 대해서는, 내가 말할 수 있는 한, 내가 관여할 수 있는 한, 비사실적 텍스트로 헤더를 추가하는 것을 되돌리고 템플릿의 토크 페이지에 내가 왜 그렇게 했는지 설명하고 모든 관련 편집자들이 적절한 해결책을 논의하도록 격려하는 것이 제한되어 있다.이 널리 사용되는 템플릿을 바꾸는 광석만약 편집자들이 이 템플릿에 대해 계속 전쟁을 벌인다면, 나는 그것에 대한 더 높은 수준의 보호와 상호 동의할 수 있는 결과를 논의하기 위한 더 적절한 장소를 찾을 것을 권고한다.Jonsey95 (대화) 22:54, 2020년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 위키백과의 대화에서 노트에 의해 경고를 받은 경우:위키프로젝트 접근성 #테이블 분쟁의 캡처, 템플릿의 수정 내역:CBB 연도별 레코드가 시작되어 템플릿을 효과적으로 파괴하는 편집에 소름이 끼쳤다.나는 영향을 받는 기사들의 수를 확인한 다음, 위키백과의 편집-전쟁과 교란이라는 결합을 위해 Jweiss11을 48시간 동안 차단하기로 결정했다.이 논의에 경각심을 갖게 되었으니, 만일 무권력 관리자가 나의 블록에 동의하지 않는다면 Jweiss11이 차단되지 않은 것을 기꺼이 볼 것이다. --RexS (대화) 18:47, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 차단 해제 요청서를 읽었고, 블록이 더 이상 필요하지 않다고 판단되어 차단을 해제했다. --RexxS (대화) 20:53, 2020년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이건 좀 바보 같은 짓이야.주위스의 편집은 '점점' 교란을 구성하는 '스툰트' 이외의 어떤 것으로도 방어하기 어렵다.나는 구체적인 지침이 무엇인지 기억하지 못하지만, 어떤 규칙이든 기사에서 편집 메타 코멘트를 금지하고 있는 것에 근거해 보면 다소 직설적으로 파괴적이다.그렇기는 하지만, 나는 "점점 붕괴"는 분명히 선의로 이루어졌다고 생각하는데, 그것을 반달리즘이라고 부르는 것은 과도하고 부정확하다고 생각한다.Jweiss는 (다른 방법으로 만족될 수 있다고 주장했던) 순전히 스크린리더를 위해서 다른 쓸모가 없는 자막을 포함한다는 자신의 인식의 절대성을 분명히 냉소적으로 보여주고 있었다.그것은 잘못되었고, TE 허가의 남용은 확실했지만, 동시에 분쟁이 진행 중인 동안 보호된 템플릿에 대한 전쟁을 편집한 것은 양쪽의 잘못이었다.우린 이것보다 더 좋은 걸 기대합니다, 코아프그리고 더 나아가서 우리는 논쟁의 여지가 없는 예방적 각도가 없는 기괴한 징벌적 블록을 가지고 있다.정신 차려, 얘들아.~스왑~{sting} 00:01, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
    가 여기서 뭘 다르게 하길 바라니?-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 00:17, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
아주 간단해, 전쟁을 편집하지 마.이것은 이 프로젝트에 대한 모든 사람과 모든 지역, 그리고 모든 분쟁에 적용되는 것과 같은 단순한 기준이다.접근성에 대한 당신의 우려에 감사드리며, 고의적으로 파괴적인 편집의 가장 많은 롤백은 용서할 수 있지만, 템플릿은 캡션 없이 10년이 훨씬 넘도록 존재했고, 하나를 추가하려는 당신의 욕구는 논쟁의 대상이 되었다.당장 급할 것도 없고, 합의구축과 분쟁해결 과정을 따르지 않을 핑계도 없었다.당신이 당신의 경합된 변화를 복구하기 위해 "파괴" 편집 전에 번 되돌아가면서 편집 전쟁을 할 변명의 여지가 없었다.WP에 대해 잘 알고 따라야 한다.BRD, 그리고 이것이 실제로 당신의 경험을 가진 사용자들에게 설명될 필요는 없다. 이 프로젝트에서 가장 특권적이고 제한된 사용자 권한을 가진 사용자들은 말할 것도 없다.~스왑~{sting} 2020년 4월 9일 00:40(UTC)[응답]
군집, MOS에서 이미 요구한 것을 주어진 템플릿이나 페이지에 추가하는 것이 대담하다고 생각하십니까?-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 02:16, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 전쟁을 편집하기 위한 합법적인 전제가 아니다.일반적으로 WP:3RRNO를 제외하고는 전쟁을 편집하기 위한 변명이나 "적당한 이유"가 없다.공동체의 합의에 찬성하여 편집전을 한다고 가정할 경우, 참여했던 교란이 정당화되지 않았다는 것은 기정사실이며, 자신에게 유리한 분쟁을 적절히 해결하는 것이 파를 교란시키는 현실적인 대안이 되었을 것이다.ge 또는 이 경우 편집 전쟁이 있는 수천 페이지.~스왑~{sting} 2020년 4월 9일 02:24 (UTC)[응답]
군집, MOS에서 이미 요구한 것을 주어진 템플릿이나 페이지에 추가하는 것이 대담하다고 생각하십니까?-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 06:45, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
Koavf, 아마도 Scarm이 그 질문에 대답하도록 하기 전에 당신은 전쟁을 편집하지 말라는 그의 분명한 (그리고 내 추측으로는 맞는 것 같다) 점을 먼저 인정할 수 있을 것이다.Best, Barkeep49 (대화) 12:21, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
Barkeep49, 그래, 편집 전쟁은 나쁘다.나는 그가 WP를 인용했다는 사실에 대응하고 있다.BRD. -저스틴 (코아프)❤TCM 18:23, 2020년 4월 9일 (UTC)[응답]
"대단히"란 단순히 당신이 필요하다고 느끼는 편집을 하러 가는 것을 의미한다.네가 그랬으니까, 그래, 대담하게 편집한 거야.BRD lol에서 면제되는 "비볼드" 편집 같은 것은 없다.편집 전쟁을 둘러싼 위키리듬이 있다면 상상할 수 있는가?ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 03:54,{sting} 2020년 4월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
군중, 반달리즘은 "BRD로부터 해방되지 않는다" lol?! ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋTCM 02:41, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 좀 이상해지고 있다.내가 선의의 편집을 언급하고 있고, 이미 WP:3RRNO를 예외로 강조해 놓았는데, 여기에는 공공 기물 파손이 포함된다.합법적인 내용 분쟁에서 전쟁을 편집하고 있을 때 공공 기물 파손 행위를 되돌릴 수 있다고 말하는 것은 좀 웃긴 것 같다. 왜냐하면 당신은 기물 파손 행위를 되돌리는이 아니었기 때문이다. 그게 요점이다."반달리즘"은 한 번의 편집이었는데, 당신이 BRD를 따르기를 거부했기 때문에 당신이 기여한 편집 전쟁에 의해서만 도발되었다.이것은 말 그대로 새로운 사람에게 설명되는 전쟁 원리와 같은 표준 편집이다.네가 사실 그들에 대해 잘 모르는지 의심스럽지만, 왜 네가 그들에 대해 이해하지 못하는 척 하는지, 아니면 그들이 여기에 지원하지 않는지는 내가 알 수 없다.~스왈~{sting}20:30, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
는 당신이 "당신이 만들고 싶은 편집은 대담하다"라고 쓴 것에 대해 내가 그렇다고 말하지 않았다. 하지만 사실이 아니다.나는 단지 당신이 계속 쓰는 것에 반응하고 있을 뿐이고 내가 예, 아니오 질문을 해도 당신에게서 정답을 얻기가 어렵다.만약 상황이 "괴롭기 짝이 없는" 것이라면, 나는 당신이 내가 의도했다고 생각하는 것에 동기를 부여하지 않고 실을 통해 다시 읽어보고 대신에 내가 실제로 쓴 것을 보라고 권하고 싶다.-저스틴 (코아프))TCM 21:31, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:아이데곤의 존과 공손함

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 사용자는 대립적이고 저속한 편집 요약을 꾸준히 쓴다.지난 몇 주 동안의 주요 내용이며, Special을 찾아보십시오.기여/John_From_Idegon 전체 그림을 얻기 위해.

문제는 이 과 이과 같은 페이지 응답에도 확대되는 것 같다.

평소 같으면 직접 토크페이지에서 접근해 보겠지만, 댓글 중 하나가 나를 향한 것이어서 내 자신을 되짚어보고 이슈를 여기에 내려놓고 있다. -- 마이크블라스(토크) 00:53, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

이것들 중 몇 개는 좀 심하지만, 이데곤 출신의 존은 정말로 그것을 누그러뜨려야 한다(그 효과에 대한 메모를 그에게 남겨두었지만, 나는 여전히 다른 어떤 행동도 할 수 있는 것을 보지 못하고 있다.El_C 00:57, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 오늘 남은 시간 동안 떠날 거야.나는 오늘 딕의 행동에 참을성이 없다.그리고 세 군데에서 상대하고 있다.사람들이 예의보다는 상호 작용 정책에 대해 더 많이 걱정했으면 좋겠다.말을 규제할 수는 없지만, 그것에 대한 느낌은 바꿀 수 있다.어떤 바보가 상자 속에 갇혀서 내버려두려 하지 않아 이상한 오류를 고치려고 선의의 노력을 할 수 없을 때는 답답해진다.좋은 하루 보내세요 여러분.화려한 언어가 싫다면 얼간이처럼 굴지 마라.그렇게 큰 문제라면, 지금 당장 날 해고해.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 01:12, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
John, 편집 시 인내심을 가지고 자신을 무장하는 것이 여전히 최선이다.그것은 모두에게 이익이 될 것이다.그러니 조금만 더 노력해봐El_C 01:20, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각에 이 반응과 여기의 추가 반응은 당신의 충고를 위해 그리고 다른 편집자들을 위해 이데곤의 존이 가지고 있는 경멸을 아주 분명하게 보여준다. -- 마이크블라스 (토크) 02:37, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 존에게 그것을 진정시키라고 주의를 높였다.El_C 02:44, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
시작해줘서 고마워IDegon의 John은 같은 기간 동안 많은 편집 충돌을 일으키는 것을 별로 이유 없이 좋아하는 것 같다.그는 로렌 맥린에서 하나를 시작했으며, 내 내용을 삭제하기 위한 어떤 정책도 제공하지 않았고, 토크 페이지를 통해 의사소통하는 대신 내 토크 페이지에 두 개의 불필요한 공지사항을 남겼다.이 일이 진행되는 동안, 그는 트리-시티 고등학교, 이글스 아카데미, 오하이오 데이튼에서 같은 일을 하고 있었던 것으로 보인다.스나이더에서 완전히 인종 차별주의에 이르기까지 그의 미개한 편집 요약을 알아차리기 위한 그의 최근 기여를 보면 된다.이 편집자는 분명히 주요한 예의상 문제를 가지고 있다.WP일 수 있다.여기 말고.키드애드 (대화) 01:28, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 엘씨일단 내버려 두겠지만, 행동의 변화를 기대하지는 마라.우리가 바닥을 치고 (그리고 그것은 변할 수 없는) 한, 어떤 사람들은 다른 사람들이 상호작용을 위한 우리의 건전한 지침을 따르지 않을 때 나쁘게 반응할 것이다.그럼 어떻게 반응하는 사람이 문제지?너희들이 BRD를 따르지 않는다는 이유로 제재를 버리면 이 문제는 완전히 사라질 거야.그리고 내가 이미 말했듯이, 그것이 만족스러운 해결책이 아니라면, 지금 당장 나를 차단해.난 변하지 않을 거야.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 01:32, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
KidAd, "완전한 인종차별주의자"에 대해: 존의 입장에서 그것은 가혹한 반응이지만, 나는 어떤 인종차별주의도 보지 않는다.당신이 이데곤 출신의 존에 대해 뭐라고 말할지 말하라. 그는 인종 차별주의적인 찬사를 받기 쉽다.El_C 01:37, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
(충돌 편집)@KidAd: 사실, WP에 맞서고 있었다.적어도 이데곤의 존이 맥클린 기사에 있었던 만큼 BRD와 편집 전쟁.다른 건 아무 말도 하지 마이안.톰슨 (대화) 01:39, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 JfI와 분쟁에 참여한 것을 전적으로 인정한다.그건 내가 낼게.그리고 나는 인종차별에 대한 나의 비난들을 무시했다.영어로 의사소통하는 법을 모르면 토크페이지에 들어가지 말고 영어와 관련된 더 많은 문맥이 있을 거야. 이것은 영어 위키백과 논평이다.키드어드 (대화) 01:58, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이것들 중 몇 가지를 살펴보기로 했다.편집 요약 "샌드박스에서 테스트 만들기"는 다른 편집기의 요약에 이어 "이것은 무엇이 고장 났는지 보기 위한 테스트 편집입니다"를 포함시켰다.편집자들은 메인 스페이스 백과사전 기사에 시험 편집을 하지 말고 샌드박스 공간에서 시험을 해야 하는데 뭐가 문제일까."완전한 인종차별주의자"라는 주장에 대해서는, 나는 다섯 번이나 그 차이점을 읽었고 인종차별주의자는 보지 않았다.언급된 모든 것은, (매우 생산적인 편집자인) IDegon의 John은 다른 편집자들과 교류할 때 덜 대립적이고 연마적이 되도록 노력해야 한다.특히 변경할 수 없는 요약 편집 시.컬런328 2020년 4월 12일 02:00 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]
(편집 갈등) 편집자 토크 페이지에서 열어본 토론으로 인해 이 ANI가 시작된 것을 알게 되었다.다른 사람이 소개한 불량 링크를 고쳤는데 사용하는 도구로 고친 편집을 설명하려다 불려 나왔기 때문이다.이런 고리를 고치기 위해서는 공감대가 필요해.아까 내가 또 한 번 변화를 줬는데 그분이 그걸 번복하셨는데 이번 변화에 대해서는 좀 가혹하다고 생각한다.나는 토크 페이지에서 토론을 열고 위의 ANI에 쌓여 있는 것이 내가 어떤 식으로든 나쁜 편집을 하고 있지 않기 때문에 그가 기대했던 대로 끝나지 않을 수도 있다고 설명했지만, 그에 대한 반응으로 약간의 불경스러운 반응을 받았다.나는 그가 무엇을 의미하는지 잘 모르겠다. "당신이 생각하는 당신이 ...상황을 바꿀 권리가 전체 문제"라고 말했다. 우리 모두가 상황을 바꿀 권리가 있을 때, 특히 그것들이 부서졌을 때 말이다.
그의 변명을 위해 나는 종종 열을 받아서 되돌릴 때 충분히 확인하지 않고 아드레날린이 시작되고 편도체가 통제할 때 나는 항상 똑바로 생각하지 않는다.우리 중 최고에게도 그런 일이 일어났을 거야.나는 그가 그의 행동에 문제가 없다고 보고 가 변하지 않을지 걱정된다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 02:02, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답하라]
축하해, 읽을 수 있어.변명하는 게 아니야.나는 입이 더럽다. 그건 변하지 않을 것이다.분쟁 해결 지침을 따르면 당신은 그것을 절대 볼 수 없을 것이다.정책 위에 서있으면 매번 그럴 것이다.여긴 어학 경찰도 없고, 내가 여기 있는 동안 내내 그게 확실해.그리고 사실상, 사람들의 말 선택에 대해 불평하는 모든 사람들은 우리가 가지고 있는 분쟁 해결을 위한 간단한 지침을 따르지 않는 최악의 범죄자들이다.또 다시...지역사회가 그들을 정해진 기준에 따르도록 한다면, 나 같은 사람들은 그것에 인내심을 잃을 필요가 없다.그리고 유리집에 산다면 돌을 던지는 것은 일반적으로 좋지 않은 생각이다.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 02:19, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 키드, 인종차별에 대한 비난을 물리쳐줘서.나는 네가 NOTHERE에 대한 추측에 대해서도 똑같이 할 것을 제안한다.존은 백과사전을 개선하기 위해 이곳에 온 것이 분명하고 그 목표를 위해 엄청난 기여를 했다.컬렌렛328 02:23, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]
Cullen328 나는 그렇게 했다.두 가지 비난 모두 부적절/비생산적이었다.키드애드 (대화) 02:28, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 키드.이 항목을 내부화하십시오.우리의 내용은 정책에 의해 결정되지 않는다.그것은 합의에 의해 결정된다.정책적으로 정의되지 않은 콘텐츠 분야가 많다.내용의 깊이는 하나다.우리의 콘텐츠 분쟁 해결 과정보다 자신을 앞서게 함으로써 야기된 분쟁에 가장 가까운 정책은 WP이다.하지만 AGF 만이 네게 필요한 이유야누구라도 필요한 이유가 바로 그것 때문이야.위키피디아가 사람들에게 과대망상을 불러 일으키는 것은 무엇인가?자기 자신만이 정답이 있다고 믿으려면 꽤 큰 자존심이 필요하겠지, 응?그래서 나는 당신이 이 매우 보잘것없는 정치인의 실패한 대통령 후보에 대한 지지는 매우 백과사전적인 것이라고 주장하도록 했다. 다른 어떤 의견도 고려할 수 없다; 나는 OP가 그가 어떻게 고쳐야 할 지 몰랐고 그가 알아낸 문제를 실제로 해결하려고 시도했던 것을 계속해서 되돌리고 있다. 그리고 월터는 다시 자신이 완전히 회복하고 있다고 주장했다.무엇보다도만약 여러분 모두가 동료 편집자들에게 GF를 주고 이러한 상황에 대해 정해진 지침을 따랐다면 이런 일은 일어나지 않았을 것이다.정해진 지침을 따르지 않으면 혼란이 뒤따른다.만약 당신이 나의 연마력에 불쾌감을 느낀다면, 문제의 원인에 대한 우리의 건전한 지침에 대한 당신의 집단적인 무지를 내가 얼마나 불쾌하게 생각하는지 상상해 보라.문제는 내 반응이 아니라 네 행동이야.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 02:47, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 존, 문제는 역시 네 반응이야.너는 그 부분에서 더 잘하기 시작할 필요가 있다.El_C 02:50, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
이데곤 출신. 자신의 비굴함에 대한 ANI 토론에서 예의 바르게 행동할 수도 없다면, 나는 당신이 충분히 오랫동안 휴식을 취했다고 생각하지 않는다.자아가 부풀려진 무지한 과대망상증 환자로서 위의 정책 해석을 좀 더 명확하게 설명해야 할 것 같다.나는 당신이 그곳에서 하는 것을 선호한다면 아주 하찮은 정치인의 토크 페이지에 대해 토론을 시작했다.키드어드 (대화) 02:57, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 존, 나는 내가 모든 것을 능가한다고 주장하는 것이 아니다. 하지만 다시 한번 묻겠다. 내가 당신에 대해 말한 되돌림에서, 합의를 이루기 위해 필요한 문제는 무엇인가?내가 건방지게 굴고 있다는 주장을 고수할 셈인가?내가 옳다고 주장하는 것은 아니지만, 내가 잘못 알고 있는 곳이 어디냐고 여러 번 물어봤지만, 당신은 나에게 [ 옹호자(LGBT 잡지)]에서 [ 옹호자(LGBT 잡지)]로 바꾸는 곳을 보여주지 않을 것이다.옹호자]]는 틀렸으며 합의가 필요하다.그 기사의 토크 페이지에서 나는 이렇게 정확하게 데모를 했다.내가 너의 토크 페이지와 여기에도 요청했지만, 너는 내가 어떤 태도를 가지고 있다고 주장하지만 네가 실제로 보는 문제가 무엇인지 나에게 보여주지 않을 거야.그래도 얼마든지 보여줘.그러나 그것이 잘못된 편집이었다 하더라도 편집이나 그 수정은 문제가 아니라 접근하는 방식이다.그리고 만약 내가 나쁜 행동의 한 예였다면, 나는 그것을 간과했을 것이다. 하지만 당신이 나쁜 행동을 했거나 더 나쁜 행동을 한 곳 위에 긴 목록이 있다.이 토론이 소집된 이슈들을 위한 것이다.월터 괴를리츠 (대화) 21:16, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 불친절함이 어디 있지?애초에 했어야 할 일을 한 것에 대해 칭찬해 줄까?이데곤의 존(대화) 03:33, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
WP:Identify Uncivil은 "경솔함, 모욕, 욕설, 심한 욕설, 부적절한 비난, 동료 편집자 비하"를 포함한다.네가 위에서 말한 것 중에 나한테만 한 거잖아, 뭐 때문에?키드어드 (대화) 03:39, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
(충돌 편집)그럼 나를 깨우쳐줘.위의 논평에서 무엇이 미개한가?나는 너의 불성실함에 대한 인식에 대해 무지하다.그게 어학 경찰 놀이의 모든 문제야.그러나 정해진 분쟁 해결 지침을 따르지 않는 것은 이항이다.내가 그랬지, 넌 안 그랬어.하지만 나와 다른 많은 사람들이 완전히 받아들일 수 있는 나의 언어는, 당신이 당면한 상황에 대한 정책적 대응에서 벗어나 내 행동에 대한 당신의 쌍곡적인 발언을 계속했을 때 문제가 있다고 생각하는가?시험 편집은 샌드박스에서 해야 한다. 내가 모르는 사람들은 BRD를 따르지 않음으로써 나나 여기 있는 다른 누구에게도 소중하게 말할 권리가 없다. 그리고 그것을 문제없다고 무시하면서, 다른 사람들이 그것을 고칠 수 있도록 무지를 인정했던 것들을 내버려두기를 거부한다.맹세했어.항상 발생하며 문제가 없는 상황에 대해 우리가 수립한 잘 생각해낸 지침을 따르도록 하라.조금도내 문화에서, 그게 네가 받는 반응이야.그것은 몇 년 동안 나의 패턴이었다.변하지 않을 것이다.여기에 언급된 모든 사람들(관리자 제외)은 최소 GF를 반복적으로 위반했다.만약 내가 여기서 일련의 행동들 사이에 어떤 동등함을 볼 수 없다면 미안하다.너희들은 분명히 그것이 어떻게든 적용되지 않는다고 주장함으로써 정책을 어기고 있다.아니, 월터, 일방적인 화장품은 바꿀 수 없어.만약 논쟁이 된다면, 당신은 토론해라.설명만 했어도 끝장이 났을 것이다.키드애드, BRD, 어떻게 작동하는지 알잖아...우리가 전에 이 길을 걸어왔기 때문에 나는 이것을 안다.다시 말하지만, 토론은 문제를 해결했을 것이다. (당신이 DR 절차를 따르고 다른 견해를 기꺼이 듣기만 한다면)OP는 당면한 사례에 대해 일리가 있었다.우리 둘 다 선심을 가지지 못했다.그것은 우리 둘 중 어느 한쪽이 신청한 것보다 더 인내심 있게 해결될 수도 있었다.나는 내가 문제를 해결할 수 있다고 생각했고, 내가 할 수 없다는 것을 알게 되었고, 내가 아는 누군가에게 손을 내밀고 있었는데, 그가 나를 다시 돌아왔을 때, 그가 그것을 고칠 수 있었다.긴 하루였다.키드애드와 함께 당면한 기사에 대해 토론하고, 학교 기사에 이 문제를 해결할 사람을 찾고, 월터가 "나는 권리가 있다"는 말을 내리자마자 기꺼이 그 문제에 대해 토론할 것이다."입장.하지만 오늘은 아니다.아마 내일도 아닐 것이다.안녕히 주무세요.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 04:24, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 산업 언어에 이의가 없다; 나는 종종 그것을 직접 사용한다; 그러나 문장에 "젠장"이라는 단어를 더하면 그것을 더 직접적으로, 설득력 있게, 또는 잘 이성적으로 만든다고 생각하는 사람은 그저 평범한 미개하고, 예의에 어긋나고, 그들의 최선의 주장에도 적개심을 불러일으킬 가능성이 있다.위키피디아 어디에도 그런 언어는 필요 없다; 그것을 사용하는 사람은 그들의 빌어먹을 목을 쳐야 한다.나르키 블러트 (대화) 03:53, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • John, 나는 기본적으로 El C의 의견에 동의한다: 어떤 것들은 약간 많고, 어떤 것도 실제로 실행 가능한 것은 아니다.하지만, 나는 개인적으로 메인 스페이스 기사 편집 요약에서 그것을 깨끗하게 유지하기를 부탁하고 싶다.그러니까, 제발 욕하지 마.불평하거나 성난 코멘트 없음 - 기사 편집 요약에. 왜?기사의 공식 기록이기 때문이다.프로페셔널해야 한다.역사를 보고 싶은 독자는 누구나 한 번 클릭해 볼 수 있다.그리고 아이들은 그것을 읽었다.예를 들면, 어린 아이들...6살에서 8살까지의 아이들그리고 사실 이후에 정리하기 위해 편집 요약을 편집하는 사람은 아무도 없다.도서관에 가서 화학책을 꺼내면 목차에는 "제1장: 이 놈 엿 먹어라.제2장: 마지막으로..!" 내 말은, 재미있는 화학책을 만들겠지만, 모든 책이 다 그런 거라면 이상한 도서관이 될 거야.트리-시티 고등학교는 거의 확실히 중고등학생들이 읽을 기사다.지금 당장 "역사 보기"를 클릭하면 두 번째 항목에서 "고치거나 끄거나 그래야 내가 할 수 있다"고 말한다.이봐, 우린 그게 필요 없어그렇다고 독자가 편집자가 되도록 유도하지는 않을 것이다.프로답지 못하고 WP를 트위터인 것처럼 보이게 만든다.나는 일반적으로 욕설에는 문제가 없다. 그리고 모두가 때때로 그리고 정당하게 날카로운 글을 쓰기도 한다. 그러나 나는 단지 우리가 그것을 메인 스페이스 기사에 포함시키지 않는 것처럼, 전문성을 유지하기 위한 하나의 장소로서 메인 스페이스 편집 요약을 편집하지 말아 달라고 부탁하고 싶다.고마워요.레비비치 06:14, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 고마워, 레비비치.네가 한 말은 내 관점을 반영하기도 한다.El_C 06:25, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내 자신을 되짚어 볼 생각이었지만 이쯤에서 의견을 덧붙이지 않을 수 없다.(또한 총알과 움푹 들어간 것의 차이점은 무엇일까?)
나는 이 의견이 내 의견을 반영하지 못하기 때문에 긴장하고 있다.특히 '누구도 정말 실행 가능한' 결론이 어떻게 충족되는지 알 수 없다.WP 사용:IDENTUN Civil, 우리는 바로 이 실에서 이데곤스의 게시물에서 존에게만 최소한 4개의 기준이 충족되는 것을 발견한다.(그들은 내가 읽은 대로 1a) 무례, 모욕, 욕설, 추잡한 제안, 1b) 인신공격, 1d) 심판 편집 요약을 사용하는 등 동료 편집자를 경시하는 것, 2a) 조롱하거나 미끼로 하는 것, 2b) 괴롭힘)그거 말고 다른 기준이 적용되어야 하는 게 있어?
이데곤의 존이 그의 두 편집 요약본인 트리-시티 고등학교 기사에서 사용한 날카로운 말에 대한 정당성은 없다.결국 아무도 그가 그 기사를 고치는 길을 방해하지 않았다.내가 수정하기 전에 16일 동안 편집이 있었는데, 나는 내가 받은 응답을 받을 만한 어떤 것도 하지 않았어.내가 지금까지 그의 다른 반응과 요약에서 관찰한 바에 따르면, 그의 위협적이고 천박하거나, 혹은 그를 비하하는 논평이나 요약에 대한 명분이 없었다.
아마도 내가 겨우 1~2주 전에 돌아간 것은 내 잘못일 것이다.이전의 이데곤의 상호작용을 통해 존을 연구하면 이와 같은 반응이 나타나고, 이와 같은 반응이 나타난다.다발이 있어.
물론, 누군가는 때때로 그들의 침착함을 느슨하게 할 수도 있다.그러나 그것은 여기서 일어난 일이 아니며, 두 번 경고를 받은 후에도 계속해서 일어나고 있는 일도 아니다.위의 "아이들을 생각하라!"는 주장은 일관되고 지속적인 인신공격 패턴의 대상을 외면한다.이데곤 출신의 존이 편집자 유지상을 받은 것은 그의 반사회적이고 폭력적인 행동이 용인될 뿐만 아니라, 지지받고 있다는 강력한 지지다.그것은 "우리는 불량배들을 계속 괴롭히고 싶고, 우리가 잃어버린 목표물에 대해서는 신경쓰지 않는다"고 쓰여 있다.그래서, 나는 그의 괴롭힘과 학대는 질책과 비난의 가치가 있다고 생각한다. 물론, 우리는 오대주가 어떤 의미를 갖기를 원한다고 가정한다. -- 마이크블라스 (대화) 14:15, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 논평: 만약 IDegon의 John이 이 행동을 보여주는 새로운 등록 사용자였다면, 이 사건은 쉽게 해결되고 외설적인 블록으로 종결되었을 것이다.하지만 존이 새로운 편집자가 아니기 때문에 그렇지 않지만 실망스러운 부분이 있다. 존은 8년 동안 편집해왔고 그가 현재 보여주고 있는 행동은 받아들일 수 없다는 것을 이미 알고 있어야 한다.4월 12일 현재까지도 존은 여전히 그들의 토크 페이지에서 이런 행동을 계속하고 있다.User_talk:를 참조하십시오.John_from_Idegon#Please_add_my_tendgress_editing_to_the_ANI_토론.그리고 이 모든 것 중에서 가장 나쁜 점은 존은 자신의 행동이 부적절하다는 것을 인정하면서도 그것을 바꾸려 하지 않는다.그 답신만으로도 그가 WP를 고려하지 않았다는 증거다.시민. 이 사건이 미해결로 남겨진다면 존은 다시 여기에 올 때까지 그의 행동을 계속할 것이다.하지만 내가 여기 ANI에서 본 것은, 그런 행동을 해결하는 가장 좋은 방법은 차단이다.편집자에 대한 경고도, 편집자의 사과도 아닌, 특히 WP를 근거로 한 블록:여기 말고. (대화)19:45, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
    다른 모든 것을 제외하고 WP:NOTHERE는 분명히 존에게 적용되지 않으며 유효한 블록의 이유가 되지 않을 것이다.만약 당신이 그가 COMIT을 위반해서 제재를 받아야 한다고 믿는다면, 그것은 다른 사건이고, 그것 자체의 장점에 따라 논쟁되어야 한다.하지만 그는 위키피디아를 향상시키기 위해 여기 있는 매우 생산적인 편집자다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 15:00, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
바로 그거야아서빅은 때때로, 그리고 때로는, 아마도, 어떤 문제에 대해 그가 12백만번 째 본 적이 있는 어떤 위키피디어가 마치 마지막을 한 특별한 위키피디어가 모든 것을 책임지는 것처럼, 그러나 정기적으로 그 곳의 더 거친 가장자리를 청소하는 능력 있고 양심적인 작가인 것처럼, 즉, 실제 백과사전처럼 만드는 것을 보았다."여기는 안돼..." 나의 빛나는 금속 &cetera.Qwirkle (대화) 15:10, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 는 단지 몇 번 이데곤의 존과 대화한 적이 있다.나는 그들이 분명한 추론과 좋은 제안을 가지고 있다고 느꼈다.나는 그들이 그들의 행동이 의제에 이끌려 보일 수 있는 몇몇 편집자들에게 어떻게 좌절감을 느낄지 알 수 있다.어쨌든, 나는 이데곤의 존이 내용에 집중해서 더 많은 PG를 유지할 수 있기를 바란다.나는 이런 종류의 토크 페이지 내용이 좋은 편집자를 차단할까 봐 두렵고 나는 그것을 보고 싶지 않다.스프링키 (토크) 20:18, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 편집은 절대 무색하다.끊어진 연결고리를 다시 도입하고 이를 해결하기 위한 합의의 필요성을 주장하는 것은 아마도 위키피디아를 교란시켜 내가 본 것 중 가장 명확한 예일 것이다.트리-시티 고등학교의 각주를 일부러 깨기 위한 편집 전쟁도 비슷하게 보인다.그런 것들, '나 말고는 모두가 문제'라는 태도, 그리고 이데곤 출신의 존이 그의 비굴함에 대해 취하는 명백한 자부심을 볼 때, 여기에는 비생산적인 행동의 탄탄한 패턴이 있다.

    나는 편집 요약에서 욕설과 모욕의 사용에 대한 제한인 종류의 주제 금지를 제안할 것이다.문제의 일부분일 뿐이지만, 페이지 역사의 전문성의 필요성에 대해 레비비치는 옳고, 이러한 파괴적인 태도를 개선할 수 있는 어떤 수단이 있어야 한다.위키피디아는 기성 편집자들이 경솔하게 행동할 수 있도록 하는 데 문제가 있다; 약간의 여유를 주는 것은 이해할 수 있지만, 지속적인 독성 분위기를 허용해서는 안 된다.Jemm이 위에서 언급했듯이, 새로운 편집자는 이런 종류의 행동에 대해 다시 생각하지 않고 외설될 것이다.만약 "요약 편집에 예의 바르게 행동하라"가 너무 어려우면, 우리의 다른 기둥과 정책들과 함께 "요점을 만들기 위해 방해하지 말라"는 것은 아마도 너무 어려울 것이다.토픽 금지는 적어도 생산적이지 않은 편집자가 그렇게 남을 수 있는 기회를 제공할 것이다. --Sable232 (토크) 22:04, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 존, 나는 WP를 읽었다.TPG는 "dear"라는 단어의 사용에 대해 아무것도 보지 못했다.안 쓰면 안 돼.네가 나에게 화난 반응을 보이자 나는 D-word를 삭제했다.영어는 나의 유일한 첫 번째 언어니까, 내가 영어로 의사소통이 안 된다고 생각하지 말아줘.Talk에서 내 합병 제안의 실수를 지적한 후:로스앤젤레스에서 몇 번 수정했어그렇다면 이미 수정했고 코멘트를 보관하는 것이 병합 제안에 대한 방해가 될 것 같아 병합 제안에 따라 했던 코멘트를 삭제해도 되겠느냐고 물었다.지금 토크 페이지를 읽어 보십시오. 내가 어떤 기사를 병합하려고 하는지, 그리고 왜 그것들을 병합해야 하는지는 매우 명확합니다.너는 심지어 내가 너의 코멘트에 대해 한 수정사항의 일부를 번복했다.난 네가 부탁한 모든 걸 했어, 섹션 리테이션을 포함해서.산제이7373 (대화)20:27, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
    이 편집은 내가 인종 차별주의자라고 생각하는 것과 정말 가깝다.믿을 수 없을 정도로 미개한 것 외에도 편집자의 영어 사용을 폄하하는 아이러니는 빼놓고 동시에 '이것은 영어 위키백과다...Locke Colet • c 22:58, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
    그 게시물에는 인종차별주의적인 점이 전혀 없다.이것이 영어 위키백과라고 지적하는 것?영어에 대한 숙달의 부족을 지적하는 것?나는 그것을 인종차별주의자가 아니라 좌절감으로 본다."미국인"은 경주가 아니야, btw., 넌 정말 조금만 뒤로 돌려줘야 해.편집 요약본에 "젠장"이나 "멍청이"를 사용하는 건 상관없어, 적개심을 말하는 거야.나에게 있어 이것은 정책에 관한 것이 아니라 단지 환경을 침착하게 유지하는 것에 관한 것이다.내가 누군가를 바보나 개자식이라고 부르고 싶을 때는 얼마든지 있지만(그리고 내가 거의 없는 경우) 그것이 계속되어서는 안 된다.그렇다고 해서 주장의 장점에 대해 틀리는 것은 아니지만, 때로는 그것을 표현하는 어조 때문에 그것이 없어질 때도 있다.진지하게, 네 자신을 위해서 그리고 평화를 지키기 위해서, 네가 좀 더 설득력을 가질 수 있을 거야.제발,데니스 브라운 - 2시 23분 55초, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
    그래서 내가 왜 그것이 내가 인종 차별주의자라고 생각하는 것과 매우 가깝다고 말했는가.그리고 스스로에게 물어보라: 만약 토크 페이지 코멘트를 하는 편집자가 Sanjay7373이 아닌 다른 것으로 명명되었다면, 존이 그들의 영어 이해에 대해 코멘트를 했을 것이라고 생각하는가?정직하라.Locke Colet • c 00:21, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    @Dennis Brown:그것만 빼면, 내가 착각하지 않는 한, 산제이7373이 어디에서도 영어를 전혀 망쳐 놓았다는 것을 알 수 없고, 그들의 다른 편집본을 보면 그들의 영어는 절대적으로 괜찮다.그렇다면, "이것이 영어 위키백과다"가 우연히 산제이7373이라고 불리는 사람을 겨냥한 것이 되는 겁니까?다른 설명이 있을지도 모르지만, 그곳에서는 광학 기술이 전혀 좋지 않다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 00:50, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    나는 그가 옳다고 말한 것이 아니라 단지 어떻게 인종차별주의자로 받아들여질 수 있는지 모르겠다.편집자의 문법에 대한 그의 판단이 완전히 틀렸다고 가정한다면, 그것은 여전히 인종차별주의자가 아니다.아마도 무뚝뚝한 것 같다.무례하다고? 메, 아마도.하지만 인종차별주의자는 아니다.그 말은 너무 자주, 그리고 전형적으로 부적절하게 던져지고, 그것은 단지 진정한 인종차별주의를 약화시킬 뿐이다.혼자 생각한다면, 그 논평에서 인종차별에 도달하기 위해서는 너무 많은 것을 감수해야 한다.데니스 브라운 - 2시간 00:55, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    그리고 인종 차별주의라고 한 것이 아니라 보기 좋지 않다고 말했지만, 다른 설명이 있을지도 모른다.어떤 이유로 타이핑을 했다면 분명히 인종차별이 될 수 있다.하지만 그럼에도 불구하고, 심지어 그것과는 별개로, 전체 논평은 완전히 엉망이고 존은 그의 목을 조를 필요가 있다.그는 위에서 "만약 화려한 언어를 원하지 않는다면, 얼간이처럼 굴지 말라"고 말했다.하지만 산제이7373은 얼간이 짓이 아니었고, 여전히 학대를 받았다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 01:19, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 인정하겠네, 내가 사용자 토크 페이지를 편집한 것은 이번이 처음이야.방금 500개 편집했는데, 존이 10만개 이상 편집했어.분명히, 존은 나보다 위키백과에 더 많은 경험이 있다.그러나 내가 "친애하는"이라는 단어를 사용한 것은 토론의 중심점으로부터 "대도시적인 로스엔젤레스"와 "더 훌륭한 로스엔젤레스"는 동의어이고 두 조항은 병합되어야 한다는 것을 혼란스럽게 한다.나는 WP: 정책 기반 이유를 들었다.콘텐트포크WP:DUPLATION은 섹션을 다시 작성했고, 내가 어떤 기사를 병합하고 싶은지 명확히 했으며, 내가 어디에 살았는지에 대한 참조를 삭제했다.나는 존이 하라는 대로 다 했다.그러나 John은 내가 편집한 내용을 되돌려서 "답답한 코멘트를 변경하지 말라"고 말했다.단순한 논평이 아니라 두 기사를 병합하자는 제안이었다.그리고 내가 어떻게 "영어에 숙달되지"하는지 말해줘.문법 실수는 질문 끝에 마침표를 찍는 것뿐이에요.나는 존이 지적한 후에 잘못을 바로잡았다.나는 토크 페이지에서 사소한 철자법이나 문법상의 실수를 많이 봐왔다.산제이7373 (대화) 23:59, 2020년 4월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 산제이7373 "영어로 의사소통할 줄 모르면"이라는 말에 개인적으로 불쾌해하지 않는 한, 나는 그 점을 무례한 것 이상이라고 볼 이유가 없다고 본다.나는 다시는 그 논평을 지나치게 부풀려 사과하지 말았어야 했다.키드어드 (대화) 00:06, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
"Dear"를 사용해도 아무런 문제가 없었다.영어로 대화나 편지를 여는 것은 전통적인 방법이고, 대화 페이지를 사용하는 것에 대한 당신의 미숙함을 감안할 때 그것은 완전히 이해할 수 있었다.당신이 받은 반응은 매우 WP였다.무해한 "Dear"를 제거하고 WP:NPA를 호출하여 입장을 견지한 후, 편집 요약 "Go away"로 대화를 공백으로 만드는 것을 포함하는 후속 편집도 포함...Locke Colet • c 00:21, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
  • "입이 고약한데, 그건 변하지 않을 거야."미안하지만 이건 용납할 수 없어종신 재직권과 관계없이 모든 편집자들은 우리의 예의범절을 준수해야 하며, 여기서 편집할 때 그들의 "불결한 입"을 확인해야 한다.Cbl62 (대화) 01:58, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    그것 또한 나의 관심사가 될 것이다.이것은 한동안 계속되어 왔으며, 문제가 있다는 것을 인식하지 못한 것이 문제다.상황이 나아지길 바랐지만 이럴 가능성은 낮아 보인다. - 빌비(토크) 03:44, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    불경스러운 사용은 우리의 예의범절을 위반하지 않는다.그것은 충분히 확립되어 있다. (일부 사람들이 그러한 합의로 경악하는 것과 무관하게)그랜드팔라마 (대화) 15:04, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    정말? 나는 우리가 다른 사람들과 의사소통할 때 사용하는 표준 언어인 줄 몰랐어.감히 관리자와 소통하면서 불경스러운 말을 할 수 있는지, 그만하라는 경고가 나오지 않는지 알아본다. (대화) 15:50, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
    네, 정말.그리고 나는 그것이 "표준어"라고 말하지 않았다; 나는 그것이 WP를 위반하지 않았다고 말했다.Civil. 그것에 대해 여러 가지 논의가 있었는데, 그 중 일부는 정책 자체의 토크 페이지에서 쉽게 찾아볼 수 있다.관리자와 불경한 행동을 하는 것은 그것이 폭력으로 간주되거나 그들에게 지시되지 않는 한 제재를 초래하지 않을 것이다.말씀드렸듯이, 일부 사람들은 이것을 좋아하지 않지만, 현재의 합의사항이다.바로 이 실마리 안에서, 몇몇 관리자들은 이미 열거된 편집 요약에서 직접적으로 제재할 수 있는 것을 보지 못한다고 말했다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 16:07, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
@그랑팔라마:당신은 WP라고 말하는 정책을 가질 필요가 없다.UNCIVAL, 그것은 상식이다.그리고 그것과 함께, 나는 더 이상 추가할 것이 없다. (토크) 16:24, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
@Jerm: 어떤 "상식"도 이전의 합의점을 비추어 볼 때 읽을 필요가 있다.내가 알고 있는 관련 이슈에 대한 가장 최근의 광범위한 논의는 위키백과의 대화다.Civility/Archive 20#특정 용어 "buck off"대한 의견 요청 - 제재 가능 여부!나는 마무리 요약을 요약하려고 노력하지는 않겠지만 합의가 바뀌지 않는 한, 어떤 행동도 그것과 이전의 논의에 비추어 읽혀질 필요가 있다.닐 아인(토크) 16:40, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
왜 내가 따라다니는 대화에 나를 끼워줄 필요가 있었는지도 모르겠고, 왜 당신이 나와 다투는지 이해도 안 돼.합의는 합의다.마음에 들지 않으면 RfC에 대해 시작하십시오.당신의 '상식'은 현재의 합의와 맞지 않는다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 17:34, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
@그랑팔라마:너는 그야말로 틀렸다.ANI(특히 장시간 이용자에 대해)의 단골들이 시행하지 않는 경우가 많지만, 불경스러운 것은 위반이다.WP:Civil은 얼굴에 이렇게 말한다: "심각한 비도덕적인 단 한 가지 행동이라도, 극단적인 언어 폭언이나 다른 기고자를 향한 욕설과 같은 단 하나의 사건을 초래하는 결과를 초래할 수 있다." 우리가 정책을 시행하기 시작해야 할 때는 이미 오래되었다.Cbl62 (대화) 17:59, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 이미 참여하고 있는 대화에 사람들이 나를 그만 놀리는 건 어때?내 말이 틀린 것은 아니다. 내가 한 말은 모두 현재의 합의를 반영한다.여기서 불경한 것을 정책의 위반으로 재분류하려는 시도는, 말했듯이, 정책 페이지에 보관되어 있는 많은 토론에서 지지를 받지 못하고 있다.그리고 여러분이 인용한 인용구는 "극한 언어의 단 한 에피소드"에 대해 이야기하는데, 이것들 중 어느 것도 아니다.사실, "총체적 불경"이라는 용어는 이 정책에 의해 "거짓말"이라고 여겨지는 것을 상세히 기술하기 위해 특히 사용된다.내가 (지금도 여러 번) 말했듯이, 커뮤니티의 일부가 이런 것을 좋아하지 않는다는 것을 이해하지만, 특정 편집자에 대한 행동 토론은 정책 해석의 재심을 시도할 장소가 아니다.커뮤니티는 이용자에 대한 폭언의 일부가 아닌 한, 경찰들의 화려한 언어 사용으로 돌아가지 않을 것이라고 굳게 믿고 있다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 18:07, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 Cbl62에 동의한다.이 이상한 욕설은 특별히 나를 괴롭히지는 않지만, "dick"이나 이와 비슷한 성차별적인 용어들은, 나는, 덜 받아들여진다고 느낀다.그러나 요점은, 비록 누구나 좌절하고 때때로 마구 화를 낼 수 있지만, 습관적으로 해서는 안 된다는 것이다.어떤 사람이 백과사전에 귀중한 공헌을 했다는 사실이 그들이 다른 모든 것에 대한 예의지침을 따르도록 하는 요건을 면제해 주지는 않는다.데브 (대화) 18:09, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 습관적으로 나쁜 행동을 간과해서는 안 된다고 주장하지도 않았고, 다작하는 기여자들을 용서해야 한다고 제안하지도 않았다.너와 나 둘 다 그것에 동의해.내가 말한 것은 욕설의 사용 자체가 WP를 위반하는 것이 아니라는 것이다.Civil, 그것이 이곳의 초기 주장이었다.존의 행동은 논쟁의 여지가 있지만, 만약 그가 경고/방해를 받아야 한다면, 그것은 전반적인 행동을 위한 것이어야 한다.적어도 과거의 공동체의 합의에 근거한 불경스러운 사용은 문제가 되지 않는다.여러분이 외치는 단어와 같은 특정한 단어들을 감시하려고 하는 것 조차 문제가 있는데, 특정 단어들이 영어를 사용하는 지역사회에서 상대적으로 다른 무게로 볼 때; "c 단어"는 미국에서는 끔찍하지만, 영국에서는 꽤 온화하다.그랜드팔라마 (대화) 18:19, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이것은 매우 긴 토론이기 때문에 아마도 내가 설명을 좀 놓친 것 같다.하지만 여기 계신 분 중에 정말로 [The Advisor (LGBT Magazine)]를 [The Advisor (LGBT Magazine)]로 고정하는 것을 느끼십니까?옹호자]]], 도움말 참조:파이프 트릭은 작동하지 않으며 따라서 렌더링된 페이지는 여기에서 보여주는 것과 정확히 일치한다. "합의 필요[s]" (이 경우 먼저 논의할 필요가 있다는 의미로만 취할 수 있는) 또는 지루한 편집에 해당하는가?(나를 이해하지 못하면 디프(diff)를 보아라 [64])
    분명히 말하면, 월터 괴를리츠가 왜 그들이 편집을 하고 있는지 일찍 설명하는 것이 더 낫다면 큰 도움이 되었을 것이라고 생각한다.하지만 궁극적으로 월터 괴를리츠의 실패가 무엇이든 간에, 나는 끊어진 링크를 다시 도입함으로써 위키피디아를 해친 편집자는 그들이 망쳐놓았다는 인식을 보여줄 필요가 있다고 생각한다. 그리고 그것은 단지 상황을 더 잘 설명하지 않은 다른 편집자의 잘못만은 아니다.사실 우리가 상대적인 수준의 비난을 할 경우, 끊어진 링크를 다시 소개한 편집자가 더 큰 잘못을 저지르는 사람이 될 수밖에 없을 것이다.그리고 나는 잘못되거나 잘못되는 것을 싫어하는 사람으로서 이렇게 말한다.
    또한 나는 이것이 왜 더 많은 예의범절이 도움이 되는지에 대한 한 가지 이유를 보여준다고 생각한다.만약 당신이 당신의 편집 요약이나 논평에서 계속해서 모욕적이거나 "간단한" 상황이 온다면, 당신은 다른 편집자들을 짜증나게 하는 경향이 있다.인간의 본성은 어떤 종류의 반응이 있는 경향이 있다는 것을 의미하고 또한 다른 편집자들은 왜 당신이 잘못된 행동을 하는지 잘 설명하지 못할 수도 있다.이것은 종종 양방향 거리가 될 수 있기 때문에 쉽게 고쳐졌어야 했던 분명히 깨진 고리 같은 단순한 문제가 결국 전체 문제가 된다.
    공정하게 말하면, 이 경우에 초기의 편집 요약은 그렇게 나쁘다고 보이지 않지만, 자주 마주치는 편집자들은 서로를 인식하기 시작하고 불행하게도 이전의 경험들이 우리가 어떻게 반응하는지에 색을 입히지 않도록 하는 것은 어렵다.
    닐 아인 (대화) 16:37, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다시 백과사전을 쓸까, 이 모든 눈송이의 허튼소리에 대해 호들갑 떨지 말고.여기 몇몇 사람들이 투입한 시간과 노력은 지금쯤이면 반 정도 괜찮은 기사를 쉽게 쓰러뜨릴 수 있었을 것이다.카시안토Talk 19:07, 2020년 4월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 실타래는 대부분 관계없는 말다툼으로 뒤죽박죽이 된 것 같지만, 사실들을 보면 사용자 자신이 논쟁하는 것처럼 보이지 않고 오히려 뻔뻔하게 포용하는 명백한 비도덕의 패턴을 분명히 볼 수 있다.사실 그것은 당신이 우연히 마주칠 수 있는 불친절의 패턴의 노골적인 것에 지나지 않는다.'마약'을 할 수 있는 여지를 주는 것은 이해하지만, 이상하게도 그런 정도의 좌절감은 실제로 이해할 수 없는 저급한 상황에서 존재한다.가장 우려되는 것은 존이 자신의 행동을 절대 바꾸지 않겠다고 공개적으로 말하는 사실이다.우리는 예절경찰이 아니다, 사실이다.우리는 공공성 정책을 강압적으로 시행하지 않는다, 사실이다.그것은 예의범절이 "선택적"이라는 것을 의미하지 않는다."불가능한" 불간섭의 패턴은 실행가능해진다.그렇지 않으면 이 스레드의 일부 사용자만큼 관대하지 않은 Arbcom이나 WMF에게 불만이 전달될 필요가 있다.매우 간단히 말해서, 행정가로서의 우리의 의무는 시민의식 정책을 지지하는 것이다.이것은 공식적인 경고로 종결되어야 한다. 그 이하도 아니다.~스왑~ 2020년 4월 14일 00:33 (UTC)[응답]

이것은 WP:Civil의 문제고 내 위에 언급된 것으로 추측되는 "설악의 허튼소리"가 아니다.

기자가 제공한 증거들을 살펴봤는데, 일부는 메일이긴 하지만, 사용자들을 대하는 존스의 예의 부족에 관한 좋은 그림을 그리기에 충분하다.존이 2012년 이후 노련한 편집자일 뿐만 아니라 이 보고서에 대한 그의 답변이 특히 "나는 입이 더럽고, 그것은 변하지 않을 것이다"라는 점을 감안할 때 이것은 특히 골치 아픈 일이다.

존을 위한 IBAN 한 가지 방법이 갈 길이 될 수 있지만, 그들이 그들의 방식을 바꾸지 않을 것임을 분명히 한 것을 고려하면, 이것은 긴 차단을 보장할 수 있다(개인적으로 후자에 관해서는 그렇게 극단적인 선택으로 오는 것을 보고 싶지 않지만).아리아타르가르옌 00:26 (UTC) 2020년 4월 14일 (화)[응답]

단지 누군가가 논쟁에서 당신에게 다르게 행동한다는 이유만으로 누군가를 "무 플랫폼"으로 만드는 것은 당신이나 나, 혹은 여기 있는 다른 누군가를 위한 것이 아니다.그렇다고 해서 네가 옳고 그들이 틀리지는 않아.당신이 아무리 동의하지 않더라도, 그 사람의 성격 특성에 대해 감독하고 교육하는 것도 당신의 일이 아니다.위키피디아는 모든 다른 개성으로 구성되어 있으며, 이것이 오늘날 위키피디아가 되는 이유다.그것은 사회 정의의 전사들이 서로에게 분홍색이고 털털한 것이 아니라 사람들이 WP에 집착한 결과도 아니다.Civil과 무엇이 받아들일 수 없는 언어인지에 대한 그것의 결함 있는 해석들.그것은 각계각층의 사람들이 키보드에 앉아서 그들이 즐기는 일을 하고, 쓰고, 신이 작은 사과를 만든 것처럼 확신하는 시나리오에서, 항상 서로 동의하지 않는 사람들이 있을 것이다.당신 같은 사람들이 이곳을 정치적으로 올바른 반향실로 만들려고 하면 할수록 더 흔들릴 겁니다.내 친구 에릭 코벳은 이곳에서 석방된 지 오래되어 슬프게도 중세 영국의 매춘에 관한 기사인 그로퍼턴트 레인을 썼는데, 100만년 후에는 WP의 SJW들 중 한 사람에 의해 쓰여지지 않았을 것이라고 말했다.그것이 그 시대에 정확히 어떤 일이 일어났는지에 대해 쓰여졌고 우리에게 교육하는데 도움을 주었다는 사실은 좋은 것일 수 밖에 없다, 그렇지 않은가?이곳의 다양한 구성은 유일한 보상 기능이며, 내가 어떻게 운영되는가를 싫어하는 경향이 있는 만큼(잘못된 중재 위원회, 훨씬 더 서투른 행정가들의 공평한 분담), 이런 입버릇이 없는 핫헤드(그리고 나는 그 안에 나를 포함)가 없다면 오늘날과 같은 훌륭한 온라인 자원은 분명 아닐 것이다.. 카시안토Talk 08:10, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 나는 동의하지 않는다.누군가 플랫폼을 남용한다면 "무 플랫폼"을 사용하지 않는 것은 우리, 지역사회에 절대적으로 달려 있다.우리는 항상 이것을 블록과 금지로 한다.그렇게 되지 않고 좀 더 나은 해결책이 나왔으면 좋겠지만, '안녕'은 우리의 기둥과 정책을 꾸준히 준수하기를 거부하는 누구에게나 항상 궁극적인 결심이다.'좋아, 그럼 다른 곳에서 너의 더러운 입을 가져가라'는 것 말고는 '내가 입이 더럽다, 그건 변하지 않을 거야'라고 대답하는 것은 정말 어려운 일이다.레비비치[dubiousdiscuss] 16:28, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
      • 그럼 다양성과 관용을 믿지 않는 겁니까?그건 정말 대단한 일이다.카시안토Talk 17:03, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
        • 그건 짚신이고, 인신공격에 가까운 카시안토야.게다가, 당신의 코멘트 전체에 뿌려진 용어("스노우플레이크", "사회 정의 전사", "정치적 올바름", "플랫폼 없음")를 고려하면, 당신은 개인적인 정치적 견해를 위키피디아 관행과 정책에 초점을 맞춰야 하는 토론으로 끌고 가는 것 같다.당신먹여 살리는 :Bite 17:56, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
          카시안토, 위에서 말한 핸드의 말에 덧붙이겠다 만약 당신이 여기서 그런 용어를 계속 사용한다면, 이것은 또한 당신에 대한 예의의 실마리를 만들 수도 있다.(WP가 아님:부메랑, 확실해, 그럼 그게 뭔데?)세미하이퍼큐브 18:52, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
        • 위키피디아의 다양성과 관용은 국적이나 배경에 상관없이 편집자들을 환영하고 있어 베테랑 편집자들이 협업 프로젝트에서 다른 모든 사람들에게 원하는 만큼 무례하게 굴지 못하게 하고 있다.--P-K3 (대화) 18:17, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
  • '카시안토' 에릭이 '그로페인트 레인'이라고 썼어?72명의 지명 편집자, 39명의 IP 편집자, 그리고 그가 도착하기 전에 299개의 편집을 한 7명의 봇에게 그 소식을 전할 것인가?
지금 기사의 화제가 되고 있는 천박하게 이름 붙여진 곳이 다른 편집자를 향해 미개한 방법으로 사용되는 비슷한 저속한 것에 어떻게 비견되는가?그것은 미개한 관습이다.
관용에 대한 필요를 늘려서 다행이야, 그러니 존이 다른 편집자에게 어떻게 관용을 없애라고 했는지 설명해 줄래?카바이 (대화) 18:44, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
"이름 편집자 72명, IP 편집자 39명, 편집자 299명을 만든 7명의 봇"이 WP에 이를 전달했는가?FA? 아마도 당신은 이 버전을 고려했을지도 모른다. 에릭과 앵무새 오브 둠이 그들의 미개한 손을 넣기 전에, 기사의 가장 좋은 시기였다.그리고 다른 기고들에 대해 말하자면, 아마도 당신은 이 품질 편집을 의미하고, 당신의 소중한 "39개의 IP" 중 한 곳에 의해 수행된 것으로 보이는 것을 말하는가?카시안토Talk 18:58, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이쯤 되면 끈질긴 전장의 자세에 대한 엄중한 경고나 짧은 차단을 분명히 보고 싶다.타인과 타협하고 존중하는 방법을 모르는 편집자들과 건설적으로 협력하는 것은 불가능하다.Handy History Handbook (대화) 17:50, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 존스의 행동에 아무런 문제가 없다고 본다. 하지만 나는 마이크블라스의 다양한 문제들을 본다. 나는 이 어리석고 무의미한 실마리를 닫을 것을 제안하고 싶다. 그리고 존스 편집의 요약본에 대해 불평하는 사람들은 가서 그 에너지를 기사에 집중한다.Davey2010Talk 18:58, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
  • 후속 조치:나는 편리한 카운터를 추가했다[65].EENG 20:04, 2020년 4월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

IP 편집기에서 발생하는 미개한 동작/역전의 위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


지난 한 달 동안 IP 사용자 109.156.239.85/109.159.72.250은 스타 시티즌 기사와 기사 토론과 관련된 스레드에 대해 자신과 다른 누구에게도 극도로 연마되어 WP를 무기화하겠다고 위협했다.BRD가 WP를 기다렸음에도 불구하고 동의하지 않았던 변경사항을 되돌리기 위해:서드오피니언, 믿을 수 없을 정도로 모욕적인 글을 올려 출처 돌리기, '비판을 흐리게 한다'고 비난했다.이미 손을 떼겠다고 한 후에도 계속 나를 질책한 후, 이전의 ANI 분쟁과 두 가지 모두 매우 연마성이 강한 주제 스레드를 거쳐서 이 일이 진행 중이기 때문에 어떻게 해야 할지 잘 모르기 때문에 나는 이것을 ANI에 가져올 수밖에 없다는 생각이 든다.

공개: 투명성을 위해, 우리의 첫 번째 열띤 토론에서, 나는 사용자를 거짓말쟁이라고 불렀고, 그들이 나를 "돌려먹는다"고 처음 비난한 후 도발적인 어조로 비난했고, 는 곧 사과했다.최근 나는 사용자가 빨치산 논쟁을 벌이고 공격적이라고 볼 수 있는 방식으로 내 주장을 잘못 전달했다고 비난했다.

이 주제 스레드와 이 ANI 스레드는 이것에 대한 추가적인 배경을 제공할 수 있다.Seadoubleyjay 00:19, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

IP 편집자는 미사여구를 줄여야 한다.그러나 이것은 논쟁이 될 만한 내용 논쟁으로 보인다.WT로 이동하여 해결 가능:VG가 내용상의 문제가 무엇이든 코멘트를 해 달라고 한다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 02:55, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
확실히 내용상의 논쟁이 있다.새로운 단일 목적 편집자가 논쟁적인 주제(일반적인 비디오 게임 매체를 훨씬 넘어서는 것으로부터 많은 해설을 끌어 모은 비디오 게임)에 대한 기사를 인수하기로 결정함으로써 야기된 분쟁들은 대대적인 변화를 만들고, 그리고 나서 그들의 문제에 대한 적절한 논의를 거부하기 위해 자금을 지원했다.나는 WP에 의해 이전의 안정된 버전으로 되돌릴 것을 제안했다.BRD, 우리가 논쟁의 여지가 있는 내용에 대해 합의를 보지 않을 것이 분명했기 때문이다.나는 WP에 의해 다음과 같이 할 수 있다.BRD는 단순히 되돌리기를 했지만, 내가 그렇게 하기 전에 이것이 적절하다고 생각했기 때문에 - Seadoubyyoujay에게 먼저 논평할 기회를 주었기 때문에 - 나는 지금 WP:BRD를 '무기화'한 혐의를 받고 있다.처음부터 Seadoubyyoujay는 WP:자기 자신의 행동, 그리고 기사 내용에 관한 그들의 주장을 근거로 삼는 일관된 패턴은 출처가 실제로 말하는 것이 아니라, 오히려 그것들에 대한 그들 자신의 해석에 근거하는 것으로서, 주제를 백과사전적인 방식으로 중립적으로 보도하기보다는 일관되게 홍보하는 경향이 있는 것 같은 해석이다.물론 필요하다면 이것을 뒷받침할 증거를 제공할 수 있지만, 나는 그것이 필요하지 않기를 바란다.Seadoubleyoujay가 그들의 편집이 다른 사람들처럼 수정의 대상이라는 것을 기꺼이 받아들이고, 반복적인 석벽 작업을 하기보다는 건설적인 방식으로 제기된 문제들에 실제로 대응할 필요가 있으며, 기사의 목적이 오히려 주제를 기술하는 것이라는 것을 받아들여야 한다면 그럴 필요는 없다.n 109.156.239.85 (대화) 04:28, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나 자신에 대한 당신의 특성화와 당신 자신의 행동에는 몇 가지 문제가 있다.
1. 나는 비교적 새로운 편집자인데, 내가 하고 있는 일의 신빙성을 떨어뜨리기 위해 나를 SPA로 특징짓는 것은 내가 할 수 있는 대로 다른 기사를 써온 것을 생각하면 심각하게 불쾌하다.나는 오랫동안 다양한 편집 작업을 하지 않았다. 왜냐하면 그 두 프로젝트, 즉 (Amaged CoreStar Cittle)는 출처를 위한 꽤 많은 글과 연구가 필요했기 때문이다.내가 편집한 다른 모든 것은 사소한 문구 변경, 번복, 혹은 내가 작업한 첫 번째 글이다.
2. 내 변화에 대해 논의하기를 거부한다고 말하는 것은 절대적으로 잘못된 것이다.이 절에서 나는 분명히 변경에 대해 논의하고, 문구와 함께 문제를 인정하며, 심지어 문구를 바꾸는 데 문제가 없다고 말하기도 한다.다른 한 가지 변화는 내가 설명을 위한 기사 링크를 보유하기 위해 되돌린 것이고, 또 다른 것은 이 논의의 근원이었으며, 그 동안 나는 심지어 당신의 논점 중 하나에 일찍이 양보했다.
3. WP와 관련하여:BRD, WP:BRDREVERT는 "먼저 원본 텍스트가 다른 방식으로 개선될 수 있었는지 또는 편집의 일부를 보존하기 위해 수정될 수 있는지, 그리고 대신 과감한 편집을 원할지를 고려하라"고 말한다.당신이 되돌리려고 계획했던 콘텐츠의 대부분은 우리의 논의와 무관했고, 문제의 섹션을 삭제하거나 변경하는 것과, 추가 내용을 모두 취소하겠다고 위협하는 것은 별개였다.WP:BRD-NOT는 또한 "변경이 마음에 들지 않는다고 해서 한 페이지를 개선하려는 선의의 노력을 되돌릴 수 있는 타당한 구실이 아니다"라고 말하고, 그것은 "반복할 이유가 결코 아니다.정책이나 지침, 상식에 의해 반전이 뒷받침되지 않는 한, 반전은 BRD 사이클의 일부가 아니다."WP 사용:BRD는 대화의 맥락에서 앙심을 품고 나왔고, 당신은 토론에 참여하지도 않은 많은 내용들을 삭제하겠다고 말함으로써, 특히 WP를 기다릴 때:그 문제에 대한 제3의 의견.
4. WP에 대해서는:Own, 내 첫 번째 게시물부터 지금까지 당신은 내가 제기한 모든 내용, 소스화, 그리고 논쟁들을 계속 일축해 왔고 당신과 동의하지 않는 모든 사람들을 비하했다.사실상 내가 한 모든 변화는 반대되어 왔다. 심지어 엄청난 양의 소싱에도 말이다.내가 다시 쓴 글들을 통합하자고 제안할 때, 당신은 그것이 어떻게 잘못되었는지를 에게 말했는데, 그것은 당신이 그것을 "적당하게 검토"하는 것을 어렵게 만들 것이기 때문이다.나는 게임 기사를 어떻게 구조할 것인가에 대한 지역사회의 합의를 고수하려고 노력했지만, 당신은 우리가 그렇게 해서는 안 된다고 주장하고 있다. 그리고 지금까지 오직 당신만이 당신이 옳다고 생각한다고 해서 그 합의가 역행되어야 한다고 생각하기 때문이다.그리고 내가 "WP:"나만의 것"은 처음부터 이상하다. 당신이 나를 비난하기 전에 당신이 7개의 게시물을 토론에 쏟아 붓고 나와 다른 편집자에 대한 당신의 외침과 같은 것을 비난하기 전에 내가 분열에 대한 토론을 시작하는 것에 맞춰져 있었다는 것을 고려하면, 그리고 당신이 나를 ANI에 대한 제재를 받게 하려는 시도와 함께. WP를 통해 읽는 것:자기행동, 내가 본 유일한 일은 기사 구조에 관한 최근의 편집으로 인해 단일 섹션으로 변경하기 전에 토론을 요청하는 것 뿐인데, 이 역시 당신이 한 이다.
5. "출처가 실제로 말하는 것이 아니라 기사 내용에 관한 그들의 주장을 근거로 삼는 일관된 패턴"은 출처가 아무 말도 하지 않았음에도 불구하고 출처의 주장에 대한 당신 자신의 해석 때문에 출처의 인용문과 관련 내용을 삭제한 것을 고려하면 지극히 이상한 진술이다. 같은 종류앞서 토론에서 내 요점을 뒷받침하기 위해 33개의 기사를 꺼냈을 때, 당신은 몇몇 기사의 매우 구체적인 한 구절을 집중해서 내용을 일축했을 뿐만 아니라, 모두 믿을 만한 출처로 간주되고 긴 시간 동안 주제에 대해 토론했음에도 불구하고 체리피크되어 있고 불충분하다고 썼다.th.
6. "주제를 꾸준히 홍보하는 경향이 있는 것 같다"도 이상하다.믿을 만한 출처의 콘텐츠를 추가한다.그 중 상당수는 논란의 여지가 없다(내 게임 플레이와 개발 콘텐츠의 대부분은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로부터 직접 온 것이고 단지 무슨 일이 일어났는지, 언제 일어났는지, 그리고/또는 지금 당장 이용할 수 있는 것에 대한 직접적인 진술일 뿐이다).논란이 됐던 것(법적 쟁점과 지연)은 기존 콘텐츠의 확대였고, 전적으로 소싱이 이뤄졌다.나는 위에서 언급한 것과 같은 문구에 대한 몇 가지 이슈를 인정했고 현재 지연구조가 있는 이슈를 인정하지만, 당신은 그 중 몇 가지 이슈에 대해 공격적이고 모욕적이며 비난적인 방식으로 논쟁을 벌였다.이러한 논의를 극도로 어렵게 만들고 내용 토론에서 벗어나는 것이 당신의 대응 방식이다.Seadoubleyujay 15:29, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
왜 당신이 항상 옳고 내가 항상 틀렸는지에 대한 당신의 주장은 우리의 최근 분쟁의 핵심 쟁점에 대해 제3자의 의견을 요청하지 않았더라면 더 설득력 있을 것이다(즉, 프로젝트의 고유한 진행 중인 지연에 대한 섹션의 제목이 '초기 지연'이어야 하는지 여부, 그리고 이후의 지연에 관한 추가 내용).다른 컨텐츠들 사이에 묻히는 것), 이제 당신은 당신의 방식대로 하는 것이 부적절했다는 것을 인정해야 한다.새로운 편집자로서, 당신은 다른 사람들이 당신보다 더 많은 경험을 가지고 있을 수 있고, 컨텐츠 분쟁을 다루는 것은 끊임없이 같은 요점을 반복하는 것 이상을 수반한다는 것을 고려해 보는 것이 좋을 것이다.
그리고 네, 크라이텍과의 법적 분쟁에 관한 섹션에서 시가 인용문을 삭제한 다음 [66]물었을 때 왜 그랬는지 설명했는데, 내가 말한 대로 선별적이고 불완전하며, 그 사건이 실제로 무엇에 관한 것인지에 대해 완전히 오해의 소지가 있는 인상을 주었기 때문이다.그 당시 더 많은 설명이나/또는 소싱을 요청하기 보다는(당신이 그것에 문제가 있었다면 분명히 적절했을 것이다) 당신은 지금까지 내가 잘못한 것에 대해 '증거'라고 생각되는 대로 그것을 끄집어내기 위해 기다렸다.솔직히 말해서 그건 말도 안 된다.
그리고 보다 일반적인 관점에서, 당신은 당신이 어떻게 '신뢰할 수 있는 출처'에 근거하여 콘텐츠를 제작하고 있는지를 계속 강조한다.그것은 분명히 위키백과 정책의 요구 사항이다.그러나 그러한 출처를 단순히 '이용'하는 것만으로 충분하지는 않다.그것들은 문맥에 그들을 배치하는 방식(즉, 당파적 주장을 사실 등으로 표현하지 않기 위해)과 균형 잡힌 기사가 되는 방식으로 사용되어야 한다.스타 시티즌의 맥락에서, 비디오 게임 미디어(결국 비디오 게임 홍보에 관심이 있는 미디어)가 게임 개발자나 출판사의 말을 거의 그대로 반복하는 경향이 있다는 점에서, 이것은 때때로 어렵다.단지 시가의 홍보 부서에서 재활용된 재료로 구성된 그러한 출처에서 기사를 만드는 것은 전적으로 가능할 것이다.슬프게도 나는 다른 비디오 게임들에 대한 위키피디아 기사들을 몇 개 이상 가지고 있는데, 이 기사들은 그런 식으로 출처를 이용하는 것 같다.그러나 나는 그렇게 하는 것이 우리 독자들에게 가장 이익이 된다고 생각하지 않는다.특히 일반적인 비디오게이밍 출판물을 훨씬 넘어 출처(BBC, NYT 등)로부터 관심을 끌어온 프로젝트 맥락에서 더욱 그렇다.이 기사는 단지 SciFi 우주선 게임팬들에게만 관심이 있는 것이 아니며, 만약 그것이 더 넓은 독자층의 최고의 이익을 제공하려면, 그러한 외부인들의 이익을 가져온 더 논란이 많은 이슈들에 대해 자세히 설명해야 할 필요가 있다.그리고 당신은 단지 CIG가 선호하는 이야기를 반복하기 위한 수단으로 '신뢰할 수 있는 출처'를 사용한다고 해서 그렇게 하지는 않을 것이다.백과사전을 쓰는 것은 어렵고, 여러분이 인용하는 출처를 실제로 분석하여 그것이 무엇에 대한 신뢰인지 물어본 다음, 그들이 말하는 것에 그것들을 사용하는 것이 독자의 최선의 이익에 도움이 되는지, 아니면 그 대신에 불균형한 기사를 만드는 것이 아닌지 묻지 않고는 할 수 없다.그리고 내용상 누군가와 의견이 일치하지 않는 경우, 그 사람의 말을 이해했는지, 실제로 옳은지 자문해 볼 필요도 있다. 109.156.239.85 (대화) 18:24, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 일찍 토론에서 제안에 기초하여 다시 쓰거나 정리했다는 것을 아십니까?"만약 우리가 킥스타터 구간에서 '초기 지연'을 옮기게 된다면, 이 구간이 현재 다루고 있는 특정 기간보다는 좀 더 포괄적인 구간을 반영하도록 다시 작성되어야 한다고 생각한다.나는 내가 항상 옳다고 말한 적이 없다. 나는 네가 내가 하는 어떤 제안/논쟁을 중단시키고 나의 동기에 대해 함축적인 암시를 했다고 말한 적이 있다.이전 글에서 말했듯이, 나는 이전에 포인트에 양보했다.
내가 크라이텍 사를 가지고 했던 요점은 내가 출처를 "해석한다"는 당신의 주장에도 불구하고 당신은 출처를 오해하고 있다고 해석함으로써 바로 그 일을 하고 있다는 것이었다.'비디오게임 미디어는 종종 게임 개발자와 출판사가 말하는 것을 거의 그대로 반복하는 경향이 있다'는 당신의 지적은 단지 "재활용 자료"라는 당신의 의견 때문에 동의하지 않는 출처를 해석하고 무시하는 또 다른 예다.당신은 바로 그 일을 하면서 특정한 관점을 밀어붙이기 위해 출처를 해석하는 누군가를 일관되게 비난할 수는 없다.
마지막으로, "경험이 더 많다"는 것이 정책과 관련이 있든 없든, 당신과 동의하지 않는 누군가를 비하하거나, 또는 그들을 나쁜 믿음으로 고발할 수 있는 전권을 당신에게 주지는 않는다.나는 내 토론에서, 심지어 당신에게도 기꺼이 포인트를 양보하는 것을 보여주었지만, 당신은 어쩐지 내가 "내 변화들에 대해 제대로 토론하기를 거부한다"고 주장한다.Seadoubleyujay 18:48, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
또 가.나는 그 인용문이 오해의 소지가 있다고 말했다. 왜냐하면 그것은 잘못되었기 때문이다.그것은 CryTek이 그들이 CIG를 법정에 세운 계약의 바로 그 문구를 알지 못하거나 숨긴다는 완전히 잘못된 인상을 주었다.법정은 언제나 계약서를 볼 생각이었다.42중대를 언급했다는 법원과의 '공유'를 위해 시가 필요하지 않았다.그것은 논쟁거리가 되지 않았다.사람들은 계약서에 적힌 내용을 숨기려 하면서 계약 분쟁을 법정에 제기하는 경우가 드물다.그러나 논란이 된 것은 CryTek가 계약서 작성 당시 이해한 스타 시티즌의 일부가 아닌, CIG가 계약 조건에 따라 42개 중대를 별도로 판매할 수 있는 자격이 있는지 여부였다.만약 당신이 그 당시에 귀찮게 물어봤더라면, 내가 이것에 대한 증거를 제공할 수 있었을 텐데, 나는 오히려 당신이 서면으로 법률 분쟁 부분을 이미 알고 있었을 것이라고 추측했다.일주일 반 전에 편집이 이루어졌음에도 불구하고, 그리고 내가 설명을 한 후에 당신으로부터 더 이상의 논평 없이, 지금에 와서야 당신은 이의를 제기하기로 결정한다.당신이 기사를 쓰기 전에 제대로 조사하지 않은 것으로 보이는 것에 대한 설명을 요구하지 않은 것에 대해 나는 책임지지 않는다.
그리고 그렇다, 나는 그들이 특정한 내용에 대해 신뢰할 수 있는지 알아보기 위해 출처를 '해석'한다.이것이 바로 WP:RS는 우리에게 "원인의 신뢰성은 상황에 따라 달라진다.위키백과 기사에서 작성되고 있는 진술에 대해 신뢰할 수 있고 그 내용에 대한 적절한 출처인지 판단하기 위해 각 출처를 신중히 따져봐야 한다."나는 비디오 게임 매체를 '해제'한 적이 없다.그러나 나는 그것의 사용을 WP가 다음과 같이 비판적인 시각으로 완화시킬 필요가 있다고 제안했다.RS는 필요하다.그것은 우리가 사실, 의견, 혹은 게임 개발자와 출판사로부터 그들이 들은 것을 반복하는 미디어를 구별할 수 있어야 한다는 것을 요구한다.때때로 우리는 그것들을 세 가지 모두를 위한 자료로 사용할 수 있지만, 그럴 때, 우리는 그 자료들이 우리에게 주는 것이 무엇인지를 독자들에게 분명히 할 필요가 있다.
하지만 이쯤에서 우리끼리 싸우는 걸 그만두는 게 좋을 것 같아.여기서 어떤 조치도 취해지지 않을 것이 분명하다.나와 내용을 의논하고 싶다면, 내가 쓴 글을 실제로 읽고, 이해가 안 가는 것은 무엇이든 설명해 달라고 부탁하기만 한다면, 나는 괜찮다.몇 주 후가 아니라 그 때.그리고 우리가 동의할 수 없다면 제3의 의견을 요구할 수 있다. 109.156.239.85 (대화) 19:42, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

109.156.239.85Seadubleyoujay의 핵심은 ANI가 해결할 수 없는 콘텐츠 분쟁이다.모든 WP에서 탈퇴:PAs. 만약 당신이 대화 페이지에서 합의에 도달할 수 없다면 당신은 WP를 찾아야 한다.Dr. 토크 페이지 토론의 내용에 집중하는 것을 기억하십시오.앞서 WT에 대한 추가 입력을 구하라는 조언을 받으셨습니다.VG 내가 널 위해 거기 실 하나 안 열게, 하지만 그건 좋은 충고야.스펙트럼 {{UV} 2604:2000:8FC0:4:68BA:3B32:8613:8B6D (대화) 22:59, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 비록 더 많은 기여자들의 참여는 물론 환영할 일이지만, 우리가 아마도 당분간 주요 이슈들을 해결했다고 생각한다.우리 두 사람만의 뒷말이 아니었다면 이렇게 격론을 벌였을 가능성이 적었을 것 같다.109.156.239.85 (대화) 00:01, 2020년 4월 16일 (UTC) 응답
좋은 소식입니다 WT:VG는 두 분 모두에게 행운을 빈다면 언제든지 사용할 수 있다.스펙트럼 {{UV} 2604:2000:8FC0:4:68BA:3B32:8613:8B6D (대화) 00:08, 2020년 4월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 난 이제 막대를 내려놓고 기사 내용에 집중하려고 해.이 실은 닫을 수 있을 것 같아.seadoubyyoujay 00:44, 2020년 4월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP의 폭력 위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


관리자가 사용자 대화:166.62.213.248을 보고 조치를 취할 수 있는가?나는 올리비에 오빈-메르시에에 대한 미인증 자료를 되돌렸고, 삭제된 이후 토크 페이지의 도움 요청에 응답했다.이런 건 처음이야.고마워요.Jusdafax (대화) 04:35, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]

일주일 동안 차단됨.El_C 04:41, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 토크 페이지 감시하고 있어Jusdafax (대화) 04:46, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그가 개인 주소를 알려주고 있는 것 같으니 편집도 수정해야 한다고 제안할 수 있을까? E god Save the Queen! (토크) 09:46, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
완료. El_C 14:41, 2020년 4월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Никита-Родин-2002

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


Nikita-Rodin-2002 still continues to create accounts on my behalf ZOKIDIN2 ZOKIDIN3 ZOKIDIN4 ZOKIDIN5 Zokidindisney and so on. On my behalf, it still creates fakes and threatens the administrators of the English Wikipedia. I have no peace from his hand. How to deal with such vandals? He follows me everywhere. [REDACTED - Oshwah]ZokidinUZB (talk) 07:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Fabrizio Cerina, NewsGateNY - COI/UPE/NLT

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


COI/UPE/NLT
Cleanup
Previous SPAs
The 25 previous stale SPAs on the history of Fabrizio Cerina.

A borderline WP:NLT case which needs a unified public forum rather than vaguely ominous postings on several user talk pages.

DTC is a freelance journalist who was engaged by NewsGateNY.[1] NewsGateNY carries no advertising other than a single banner for a relevant business on two themed pages, and a couple of author profiles which link to their businesses. Fabrizio Cerina and his bank Credit des Alpes get regular attention despite their status as a minor boutique bank. (Question: How does NewsGateNY generate the money to pay its bills despite minimal advertising and no subscription?)

DTC's edits to Fabrizio Cerina unwittingly flagged up the number of WP:SPAs (25) who have previously edited the article. The article was flagged to Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Possible UPE by JavaHurricane and cleaned up by ThatMontrealIP.

Following that cleanup DTC was terminated by NewsGateNY and has been threatened by them with legal action.[2][3][4] DTC now seeks to blams (and shift his legal problems?) onto me, JavaHurricane, and ThatMontrealIP.

The only plausible cause and effect thread I can draw from this is... DTC was paid by NewsGateNY to write a puff piece about Cerina whose bank regularly commissions NewsGateNY to promote the bank. DTC adds material to the wiki article which draws attention to the previous puffery resulting in its cleanup. Cerina blames NewsGateNY for the loss of his "advert", they in turn blame DTC and fire him. DTC doesn't see himself as a paid editor in regard to Wikipedia, even though payment (for the NewsGateNY) was his motivation in writing about Cerina in the first place.

NewsGateNY have suffered no reputational damage. Their only reason to fire and sue DTC is if they are getting grief from Cerina. It's only possible to quantify monetary damages in their case against DTC if the edits along the way were paid for. The position DTC now finds himself in points to Cerina having a longstanding interest in the promotional aspects of his bio.

As I'm now WP:INVOLVED, here we are. Cabayi (talk) 11:57, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sums up perfectly what I think now. He had told me earlier that accusing him of UPE can land him in trouble, and he got fairly angry, and that, along with his continuous rejection of the accusation that he was a UPE, got me suspicious that sockpuppetry could also be possible, though I can't decide on a master. Further, those old SPAs are also stale, making it tough to find evidence of sockpuppetry. JavaHurricane 12:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JavaHurricane, I am busy now but will return to this soon (about 14:00 UTC). Meanwhile, Cabayi gives a better reason, and I disagree that there are any sock puppetry. Quoting some earlier user, fans often look like socks, and this appears to be a similar case. More analysis required. Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 12:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eumat114, I was actually concerned about the reply tone, but then, I'm fairly new to this, so I'm very likely to be wrong.
In any case, I would like to propose an indefinite block on David T Cohen for undisclosed paid editing. I'm not sure about the NLT part, and I'll leave it to more experienced editors to decide it. JavaHurricane 12:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JavaHurricane, I must disagree (despite the similar amount of experience by us). If we AGF on DTC, what he says actually made sense. He stated that he was a freelance employee of NewsGateNY, but then he might not fully understand WP:UPE, hence failure to disclose. (I consider his declaration of employment as a disclosure.) Anyway if we trust him, it is just unkind to spread salt on his already deep wounds. All these made sense and a block is not a good solution, a greater discussion is needed. I am not sure about the legal stuff, and probably will never understand until I am old enough to vote. Cheers, Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 12:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You won't understand it then, either. Believe me. creffett (talk) 12:49, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eumat114, well, looks like I'm in need of a wikibreak, accusing people of socking and forgetting AGF entirely! Perhaps I'm a bit stressed out. JavaHurricane 12:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JavaHurricane, everyone is nowadays. DTC may be so upset as in this time of Covid-19 it is even harder to get a job. Stay safe! Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 12:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know about the sockpuppetry claims, but I looked at DTC's contribution history following the original COIN report. My read is that this is yet another one of those suspicious "I'm an independent journalist who was just so interested in someone I wrote about that I had to write a Wikipedia page about them!" cases (which I generally interpret as "I'm an 'independent journalist' who was paid to write this page"). While they deny COI/UPE, the fact that DTC mentioned repeatedly that NewsGateNY had written an article on Cerina makes me really suspicious. Concur completely with Cabayi's cause-and-effect analysis above, though I also wouldn't be surprised if DTC had in fact been engaged to write about Cerina in some way. creffett (talk) 12:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's worth checking out the earliest captures of NewsGateNY on the internet archive - back then the only content they had was a series of nice articles about Cerina. Whatever kind of relationship there is, it has been going on for a while. - MrOllie (talk) 13:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"We would like to add that it is a story we like, a stirring account of an entrepreneur who demonstrated that his name was more important to him than his purse and made it back through perseverance and strength of character." Yes... looks like these people have a long relationship, based on this line from their front page. JavaHurricane 13:26, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Internet Archive gets more interesting. A NewsGateNY article on Cipriani (which contains a hat-tip to Credit des Alpes) was archived on 28 March with a byline of "Giovanni Luchetti", on 15 April the byline reads "International News". Material which NewsGateNY previously credited to DTC is now credited to "Domestic". Someone's sanitising their PR work. Cabayi (talk) 13:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cabayi, ohh, thanks for your insight. Seems to me that DTC has at least some truth to his claims: he apparently was a former reporter (don’t know about freelance) and there is a very real possibility that his sacking is why these work are getting cleansed. Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 15:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But what are we trying to achieve? Make NGNY hire DTC? Hard. Restore the promo and give in to NGNY? Impossible. The only way out is Uncyclopedia. Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 15:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The David T Cohen account admits to doing paid editing in this diff: "But if it can help: my employer newsgateny was writing last week about some 10 famous names (among which cerina and cipriani). I was doing a section of the job." I'm not sure why we would waste any more time om this editor: they are clearly here to do paid editing, per the diff, and their only efforts have been that and to waste the time of other editors with weird legalese notices about losing their job and lawyers. They are clearly WP:NOTHERE and blocking them would save lots of pointless discussion time.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 16:36, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    ThatMontrealIP, precisely. But let us wait for DTC to respond to this thread. JavaHurricane 17:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Since when do we wait around to give undisclosed paid editors a chance? Big waste of time.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 18:07, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found a book maybe worth checking out: Finance Reconsidered by B.Paranque & Perez where Cerina is portrayed [67] [68]. If the Financial Times article is true, quite touching of a story, have to say. I've no opinion about D Cohen but I did read articles of Newsgateny in the past. I know they have been around for years.Philcroix91 (talk) 18:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Philcroix91, given that you signed up shortly after DTC first got pushback on his paid editing, and you linked to a NewsGateNY story about Credit des Alpes five days ago, then of course you have to say, it's what you're paid to do. Would you like to declare your other sockpuppet accounts while you're here? Cabayi (talk) 18:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Am I paid to do what? I just said I found a reference. In fact I read about this case because of a link Newsgate. I think you are really overdoing and you believe that the entire planet is dishonest maybe because you are. I've no idea why you are so angry but you should relax and try to be more objective. We are not here to insult each other like you did first but to evaluate facts.Philcroix91 (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

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Personal attacks

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2A00:23C5:930B:B000:7D7D:5D4A:CD29:5CA0 (talk · contribs)

The first one was this edit summary (repeated four times), followed by this comment on my talk page, followed by this comment in response to a template for vandalism, followed by this comment in response to a PA template by another editor, and finally this edit summary after the other editor who templated the IP for PA tried to revert the PA. I think action is needed here. This is awfully petty lol. – 2.O.Boxing 14:07, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve just now noticed as I was typing this out that they’ve been blocked for 31 hours, removing the message from the blocking admin with this edit summary. I think 31 hours does not reflect the odd level of disruption this user has caused, especially seeing as they’ve recently came off a block for disruptive editing. – 2.O.Boxing 14:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And now this friendly addition lol – 2.O.Boxing 18:46, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Evading their current block by editing from 2A00:23C5:930B:B000:D851:56F9:DC07:3D5A (talk · contribs) – 2.O.Boxing 00:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2A00:23C5:930B:B000::/64 blocked for 3 days. Black Kite (talk) 00:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Discretionary sanction notices on Joe Biden articles

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Due to the usual post-1932 U.S. politics concerns on Wikipedia, the Joe Biden article has a 1RR restriction notice in place (as seen at Template:Editnotices/Page/Joe Biden). The new spin-off article Joe Biden sexual assault allegation does not have such a restriction, but is unlikely to be any less contentious for the next six months leading up to the U.S. presidential election. Should it have the same 1RR restriction as the parent article, or should there be a wait-and-see approach? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 18:46, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The 1RR restriction applies to that article the same as all others, the notice does not create the restriction, being about post-1932 US politics is what creates the restriction. The notice is a courtesy notifying people of the restriction. I will add it presently. --Jayron32 19:12, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Life on the edge...
...or life on the edge? AtsmeTalk📧 23:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Or life on the edge?
You are laboring under the misconception that Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. Every single step in the discretionary sanctions process is absolutely necessary, and I really hope you logged this action in the appropriate place. Otherwise, you're going to be getting a visit from the Arbcom Police. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you think I didn't log it? You didn't even check my contribs before you leveled that accusation. If you aren't going to speak from a place of knowledge, you would do well to just keep your mouth shut. --Jayron32 19:48, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. That's some wild hostility. "Leveled that accusation"? Are you serious? I made a joke about how bureaucratic discretionary sanctions are. I think you need to calm down. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
NinjaRobotPirate, Jayron32, I think there's wire-crossing here - NRP's comment appears to have been very deadpan humor which was misinterpreted as a serious accusation. Would respectfully suggest that both of you chalk this up to a misunderstanding and leave it at that. creffett (talk) 19:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a good thing Covid is bringing out the best in people. Otherwise it'd be pistols at dawn for those two by now. EEng 20:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If we start doing that, I'll be writing Hamilton: The Wikipedia Musical creffett (talk) 20:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you serious? "Fuck off"? Calm down!.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 19:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nevertheless, Jayron32 is absolutely correct on the procedure. Where an article subject is under restrictions, every subtopic spun out of that article is automatically under the same sanctions. If it was otherwise, any editor could evade those restrictions by forking from the article. BD2412 T 19:57, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everyone is on edge lately, and minor misunderstandings blow up. Jayron, as Creffet says above, I think you misunderstood NRP's intended lighthearted tone. NRP, SS, please don't tell anyone who does not appear calm to "calm down". It never, ever, ever works. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I apologize for the edit summary. It was an overreaction. There was no excuse for it, and I should not have done so. Also, I thank NRP for clarifying their intended tone, and I apologize specifically to them for over-reacting to their joke. There was no fault in what you did, NRP, and the fault lies entirely with me for over-reacting. I am quite sorry for that. --Jayron32 20:08, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Whoa whoa, Floq, slow down on the wild accusations! "lighthearted tone" and "misunderstandings"? It's getting really intense in here! </s>--v/r - TP 20:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    And I didn't even include diffs. Surprised I'm not blocked. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:13, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I would suggest that the nature and conduct of political activity in the U.S. also contributes to this edginess. We have, I note, a substantial uptick in relatively recently created low-activity accounts, with edits previously completely unrelated to anything political, suddenly going very aggressively into editing of political topics. BD2412T 20:16, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, no, it was just me being a prick. Don't excuse my actions. I apologized for them, and the blame lies with no one but me. I needed to lighten up, and I thank everyone for calling me out. I needed to be set straight. Whatever you may have noticed in the zeitgeist has nothing to do with me being rude. I was rude, and I am sorry for it. --Jayron32 20:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I patrolled the political articles during the 2012 elections. You'll notice I've never been back. I definitely understand where the edginess is coming from.--v/r - TP 20:24, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    And that was a relatively mild election. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 21:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe, with all of this political heat, it's time to move the goalposts to post-1936. That would ease it. Randy Kryn (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Legal threat made by IP

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IP 92.251.224.116 made a legal threat in this misplaced edit request at Template talk:Edit extended-protected. JTP (talkcontribs) 22:36, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

lblocked. El_C 22:40, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Teahouse question

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Can an admin help this user at Wikipedia:Teahouse#Accidentally_moved_draft's_talk_page_to_the_main_space???? Thanks, Interstellarity (talk) 16:03, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done DMacks (talk) 16:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Fabienzidane adding unsourced population figures

Fabienzidane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) insists on adding unsourced population figures to a range of articles about ethnic groups in Mauritius. Despite repeated warnings, this behaviour continues. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:20, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See also here. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:22, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And this edit made since I filed this report, in clear contradiction of the cited source. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:03, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I left a note at their talk. Please ping me if necessary (e.g. if I don't notice follow-ups after 24 hours). Johnuniq (talk) 09:31, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Repeat reverts and goading using two different IPs

Yesterday I undid some work by an IP across a number of Formula One Grand Prix race articles, in which he made significant changes to table formats with no consensus. I retained most of his other work while reverting him on the tables. After a strange conversation on his talk page User talk:2A02:8084:F1BE:9180:84AA:25AF:B30A:6B79 in which he failed to assume good faith, and made strange judgements on myself and another editor, he has repeatedly reverted me on several articles, using two different IP addresses. During this time, he has called me a "naughty little boy" in edit summaries no fewer than nine times, at least, among other childish insults. For example:

1994 Canadian Grand Prix – edits and reverts using two IPs [69]
1994 French Grand Prix – reverts including after I added a source to the wording he objected to [70], then he removed the source a second time [71]
1994 San Marino Grand Prix — 3RR using two different IPs [72]
1994 Pacific Grand Prix – reverts using two different IP addresses [73]

There are a number of other similar articles in which he uses two different IPs to revert me, and I am close to 3RR on several of them. I don't know if he's trying to goad me into breaking 3RR, but the edit summaries would indicate that.

Besides the two IPs, he has an account, User:ChupoKlasky1991, but has not used it in over a month after "retiring" in the face of other editors disagreeing with him, something with which I was not involved.

Another editor has warned him here [74], but I don't really see why I should have to put up with this. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Both IPs blocked for a week. That's just simple disruption. Black Kite (talk) 23:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just so everyone is aware, this person has a long and ignoble history of very similar behaviour dating back years now, with typical sneery, goading, deliberately provocative behaviour, gradually escalating over edit after edit. I mention it so that people can have a think about what sanctions/protections can be put in place to mitigate the effect of this person's abusive behaviour. Having decent editors clean up after this pillock over and over again is something that Admins need to work on eradicating. Just take a look through the edit history of the IPs blocked this time and you'll see plenty of verbal abuse, calling editors trying to manage their imbecillic pantomime "fucking idiots" and the like. When I started to simply revert their vandalism without engagement they decided to try upping the ante and called me a cunt :-D Subsequently there were a few edit summaries that needed redacting, but eventually they got bored, although it was a tedious process to get there and greatly added to my sense of ennui with Wikipedia admins and their inability to properly police persistently abusive IP editors. Hence, I edit here far less than I used to. All their edits trace back to IP addresses belonging to either Three Ireland (presumably their cell phone provider) or Virgin Media in Dublin (home connection?). Take a look through my talk page history if you want a bucket load more IP addresses, and i suspect that I am not the only one with a list like that. I appreciate what Bretonbanquet has done in raising this topic here, but I do very much fear that he will find that once the one week block imposed by Black Kite has expired this will only continue. We need a more permanent solution. Pyrope 03:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since I just rewatched the show, I have to add: "We need a more permanent soluuution...to our proooobllemmmmm..." creffett (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If it does continue, let me know and I'll implement longer blocks or wider rangeblocks. There isn't much collateral damage to worry about on those ranges. Black Kite (talk) 14:11, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks Black Kite. I have my fingers crossed that they might not need it this time. Pyrope 14:21, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More eyes please

At Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard there are a few concurrent discussions that are featuring (accusations of) personal attacks, IDHT and reverting the closing and unclosing of sections. I'm very much involved in the discussions so I'm not expressing any opinion of who is or is not right, and while things haven't boiled over into full blown edit warring or incivility the potential is clearly there. The attention of a couple of clearly uninvolved admins to ensure things don't escalate would be appreciated. Thryduulf (talk) 16:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's kind of a pain to read through all that drama. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive editing by Zoglophie

Zoglophie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  • User behavior of editing by making multiple 'publish changes' in one article. Especially, with behavior by deleting then publish, blanking then publish, adding content then publish, replace content then publish in one article section at adjacent times (per H:PREVIEW), mostly in Saina Nehwal and P. V. Sindhu articles.
  • Persistence using capital letters in words that do not need to use capital letters (per MOS:CAPS), mostly in Saina Nehwal and P. V. Sindhu articles.
  • Moving or adding infobox after the article introduction (per MOS:LAYOUT), in Sun Yu and Wang Pengren articles
  • Adding flagicon in the infobox (Taiwan flag, which per paragraph 4 of MOS:INFOBOXFLAG, Republic of China or Taiwan flag did not use as country representation in sports or in the sporting competition), and linking anchor to the same target in one line (Republic of China and Taiwan to the same target) (per MOS:REPEATLINK), in Cheng Shao-chieh and Tai Tzu-ying articles.

I've tried to give an explanation through User and my talk page, but user ignores that and used user personal preferences for editing on Wikipedia. Stvbastian (talk) 06:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Continuous harassment by Stvbastian

  • I don't know why the user have to always harass me by warning me for a block, he/she can give me advice because i may not know some things cause I'm new in Wikipedia and I always try to put best in the Badminton Articles especially Women's singles.
  • Compare prominent women's singles players article with now and 2 months back, you will get to know what contributions i made in all of them. See : Saina Nehwal, P. V. Sindhu, He Bingjiao, Lindaweni Fanetri etc.
  • I admit my edits are continuous because I regularly find good citations to feed in these articles and will try my best to make Articles looking more good.
  • Some of the words or statement needs special attention so to highlight them, i put it in capital letters.
  • Blanking of section is not meant for vandalism, I did it to rearrange the sections in order. Like Career>C. Overview>etc. Please refer to edit history in Saina Nehwal and P. V. Sindhu.
  • The user needs to go through the rule in MOS:INFOBOXFLAG because he doesn't know the destinction between Player's Nationality and Player's representation of country in International sports. See Chou Tien-chen where i haven't edited yet it clearly shows the flag of Taiwan in Personal information and flag of Chinese Taipei in international badminton competition.

{Edit:I have fixed the repeatlink problem as objected by Stvbastian, still i am relevant to my previously made edits in Tai Tzu-ying & Cheng Shao-chieh articles in which i have added flagicons to distinguish between nationality and country's (Taiwan's) representation in International sports}

I have informed him very well about this but he/she doesn't care and continues to argue with false claims. He/She even reported me intentionally in Edit warring because he wants to falsify the general rule as per Mos: INFOBOXFLAG. I hope strict response will be given to such activities. Thankyou Zoglophie (talk) 07:37, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This is so awkward when you said that i should give you an advice, please check our conversation in User:Zoglophie and my talk page, there were so much advice that mostly ignored by Zoglophie, even user against my advice with user personal understanding which is not based on Wikipedia rules or only based on other articles that are not necessarily in accordance with Wikipedia rules. For example about MOS:INFOBOXFLAG and MOS:REPEATLINK in Cheng Shao-chieh and Tai Tzu-ying articles. When Zoglophie firmly endures on his/her personal understanding, by performed 2 reverts in my edits, and finally user him/herself reverted his own edit about MOS:REPEATLINK in that articles. And for MOS:INFOBOXFLAG, please take a look on Saina Nehwal article, because recently User:Drmies removed the country flag in the infobox per overflagging, overlinking. Hopefully he can help to give you an understanding about MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. Stvbastian (talk) 06:17, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stvbastian I knew you would mention the edit by a user in Saina Nehwal, however, you still are ignorant of the fact that the Taiwan or 2 other names ROC or Chinese Taipei have 2 different flags. One for Nationality and one for Country's Representation. You are repeatedly ignoring the fact that most of the other Taiwanese players have 2 flags in them which is not the case of overflagging because they have 2 different flags. Edit in Saina's article is okay, why? Because there is no difference there like in Tai Tzu-ying and Cheng Shao-chieh. Your claim of overlinking was correct, i corrected it and mentioned in both of the reports of the edit i made. But you need to see even Chou Tien-chen, Lin Chun-yi (maybe more) have overlinking problem which i will fix after the discussion will be closed. You said you've given me advice but you don't mention the continuous block threats you have given to me. You are the user with bullying nature and i didn't like it. I am the new user and you should be of helpful nature like many other experienced users in Wikipedia, especially to mention other Senior Badminton Editors. I think you got my point now. Thanks. Zoglophie (talk) 06:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Second awkward, you are still explaining about nationality and representation of Taiwan athletes, but actually i already understood about that for a long time, since i who explained you about nationality and representation of Taiwan athletes, for your disruptive editing by changed Chinese Taipei flag to Taiwan flag in some articles (see your talk page). The point here is not about nationality or representation, but can we use the flag of Republic of China (Taiwan) in infobox? Read paragraph 4 of WP:INFOBOXFLAG carefully, "As with other biographical articles, flags are discouraged in sportspeople's individual infoboxes even when there is a "country", "nationality", "sport nationality" or equivalent field: they may give undue prominence to one field over others. However, the infobox may contain the national flag icon of an athlete who competes in competitions where national flags are commonly used as representations of sporting nationality in a given sport." Is the Taiwan national flag used as representations of sporting nationality in a given sport? The answer is No. And for the statement country in infobox simply write Country = Republic of China (Taiwan) without flag. Please try to get rid of your misconceptions, personal preference or making edit only based on other articles that are not necessarily in accordance with Wikipedia rules. I only warned you with caution level 1 for your many disruptive editing, and then you said that i gave you continuous block threats? Please check your talk page again. I already tried to help you with a lot of advice and tried to fixing your disruptive editing in some badminton related articles, but you mostly ignored my advice and then you are the one who felt that my advice was bullying. Stvbastian (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stvbastian Flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. This is a line in Wikipedia's rule MOS:INFOBOXFLAG. This should be understood that Taiwan has 2 representations, and both of them should be mentioned because their 'National Identity' is somewhere different with their 'Sports related Identity'. Both use different flags. For their own Identity, in Personal box, It is Taiwanese Taiwan but their latter identity is different, it represents them with a different flag - see : Chinese Taipei. Even though it is a sports related article, it needs to distinguished about these 2 flags so their recognitions in the World can be understood. You said it is not necessary to relate them with other Taiwanese articles why? The past editors knew the fact i am tired to make you understand. Don't know why this is so hard for you to understand? Why this is 'awkward' for you?! This is personal preference for you? Ha!

Yes they represent Chinese Taipei in Sports with a specific flag and this is undisputable. They were my first edits probably in which I inserted the Taiwan's flag but after the study i clarified the difference of two identities. Can this be considered as they were my first few edits?

I have given edit summary before the mass deletion of any thing i added but whatever you can call that my inexperience in Wikipedia. After those few edits, i haven't made any mistake further and always consolidated my edits. It is now evident with most of my recent edits.

2nd instance of threatening behavior by you was when i added H2H details in Chen Yu Fei page. You simply sent me the reverted message (Check on my talk page) and your message was not appropriate, you said You will not receive the Warning level 2 & not be 'blocked'. This was the second instance. Third instance you just removed the colors of h2h table eventhough you know there is still no consensus for permanent colors. I can consider that because i am not childish to continuously change the colors, i kept it like that.🤔

I don't know if my recent edit(s) in Sun Yu, Han Aiping, Li Lingwei etc. can be called 'Disruptive' as you are regularly mentioning. For you, even my Wang Pengren's edits are 'disruptive' even when you know it has no details what so ever, and i only added his major medal details. In Gillian Gilks what i did is to place the medals in infobox alike other articles and even that is disruptive for you! Afterall every article is not complete(stub) and it is not necessary that you will have all the career details available in them and not every editor is able to provide complete information. But for you Noo that's Disruptive : Sigh! Zoglophie (talk) 14:25, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

      • I request admin(s) here to intervene asap because it is already more than 24 Hours since the user is reported. Many other new reports' discussions are even closed now so it's my request to solve this dispute. Thanks. Zoglophie (talk) 14:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quite frankly, this sounds like a content dispute that needs to be discussed via Talk page or WP:RFC. I doubt an admin is going to be involved in this. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

HandThatFeeds, this is disappointing, I believe an admin needs to intervene here. Zoglophie (talk) 18:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CIR concern with Sohail ariyan

New editor Sohail ariyan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been editing in the area of Bengali films and actors for two months. In that time, their talk page has collected a significant number of warnings from 10 different editors. Sohail ariyan has not responded to any of the warnings or changed their behaviour.

Despite being warned multiple times, Sohail ariyan never uses an edit summary, and has marked all 200+ edits since 23 March as "minor", when they are nothing of the kind (for example, this, where unsourced information was added, and this, where reliable sources were removed).

They have created 24 pages, 5 of which have been moved to draft, and 11 of which have been proposed for some form of deletion (some were draftified articles recreated by the author in article space without meaningful improvement and without going through the Articles for Creation review process). The remainder of their creations, based on a small sample (Action Jasmine, Bahaduri (2017 film), Matir Pori, and Ojante Valobasha) are also problematic, being unreferenced and failing to demonstrate notability.

Their actions raise competence is required concerns. It is unclear whether they are wilfully turning a blind eye to feedback, or simply lack the fluency in English or the experience as an editor to understand the problems they are creating. Whatever the cause, the disruptiveness of their editing outweighs any beneficial edits.

A block is needed to, at a minimum, get their attention and make them realize that there are protocols and conventions to be followed in order to be a constructive contributor. --Worldbruce (talk) 14:53, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I originally tried to draftify the articles, such as Pure Jay Mon, explaining to Sohail ariyanthat he needs to add sources and encouraging him to work on the articles in the draftspace and then re-submit them once notability was established. Instead of doing so the editor simply just copy-pasted the same article, none of which are more than two sentencers and an infobox with absolutely no attempt to use sources, back into the main space. I have warned the editor three times now about adding unsourced articles and am now proposing them for deletion (I believe that A7 would be more appropriate but unfortunately films do not qualify). Sohail ariyan has made no attempts to communicate to other editors and has ignored every single warning that has been issued to him/her. Maybe a short block will force him/her to communicate but this is bordering on the editor having WP:CIR issues. Best, GPL93 (talk) 15:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Delete all of his/her articles including drafts. there is no point for 24 AfD nom. Looks editor doesn’t understand WP:GNG (or don't want to) & mass creating non notable film articles. I also think that a block is necessary to get user's attention. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 16:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked indefinitely [75] until they're willing to engage with concerns. The significant history of unsourced article creation, removal of sourced info, and complete failure to respond to others' concerns means that I think a short, definite block is more likely to just be ignored. I am expressly happy to have any other admin review this, and to unblock if they think the user is cooperating. ~ mazca talk 16:28, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mazca: Thank you for action. Regarding article created by the user, if those articles cannot be deleted under A7, at least drafty them please. --আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 18:16, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The ones I looked at briefly seem to mostly make rough assertions of notability based on having notable actors, etc, so they're not eligible under the deliberately restrictive requirements of WP:CSD#A7 even if it did apply to films - various editors seem to have marked most via WP:PROD, feel free to continue doing that to any others. I may do a mass AfD of any that continue to exist after that, but these are ultimately fairly harmless bad stubs that can stand to exist for a week or two while normal deletion processes occur. ~ mazca talk 18:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Joelrosenblum

Not sure if this is an account sold on the black market or what, but right about now I think that a belligerent antivaxer is close to the last thing we need, so I have blocked per WP:NOTHERE. Guy (help!) 19:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Good block. Their main talkpage post today was, in essence "I object to everyone citing reliable sources in writing this article, it isn't fair that there isn't a balanced view from these bullshit sources also". We need less of that around here. --Jayron32 19:40, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Abhibedi999 and Draft:Pauline Johnson

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Editor User:Abhibedi999 has declared that they are being paid by Pauline Johnson, and have three times submitted Draft:Pauline Johnson to AFC for review. So far, so good. However, it has been declined twice: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Pauline_Johnson&type=revision&diff=951032408&oldid=951020122&diffmode=source https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Pauline_Johnson&type=revision&diff=951054998&oldid=951046523&diffmode=source Each time, it has been resubmitted without addressing the comments by the reviewers. On the second rejection, User:DGG said to drop the honorific Dr. before her name. The draft has been resubmitted referring to her as Dr. Johnson. (She does have a Ph.D. We don't put Dr. in front of the names of physicians or professors. We state what their education is.) As DGG said, she probably does satisfy academic notability, but Wikipedia don't have a satisfactory article on her if this editor keeps resubmitting this fluff.

I request a topic-ban against User:Abhibedi999 submitting or writing about Pauline Johnson. They are a net negative to the encyclopedia, and if they don't get paid by Johnson, that isn't our problem. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see this request as an interesting experiment for how to handle unsatisfactory articles by declared paid editors. Usually, I would not think this is a good way of handling unsatisfactory articles. If they are will always be unsatisfactory, they can be deleted; if they are unsatisfactory but notable, they should be improved, and I would normally just have fixed the article myself. But this particular author is a declared paid editor. The key sentence of what I said was If you're going being paid for writing articles, learn how to do it right.. I have often fixed the scientific bios from paid editors, even undeclared paid editors, if the person is sufficiently notable. I no longer do it, unless the person is so very notable that there is a real need for the article in the encyclopedia. I have better work to do here, ,mainly to assist new good faith volunteer editors to write decent articles. I've writen a little for pay in other contexts before joining WP, but I would have thought it wrong to take the money and induce someone else to do the work for free. The effect of blocking this editor from writing on this article is going to be that it will be deleted in 6 months, unless someone else works on it, and if a new editor appears to do so, I would draw the obvious conclusion. If they prevent such deletion by continual re-submission, I've used MfD. RMcC sometimes does not support using MfD for that purpose, and this is another approach. I'd be willing to try it.
But If a paid editor can not learn how to write satisfactory articles they should be blocked altogether. I wouldn't do it just on the basis of one article, so I would look at the others. There are no others in this case. Paid articles on academics are sometimes written by the usual sort of independent one-article paid editors, but sometimes by their university's PR staff. I can sometimes tell the difference, but I don't want to actually judge this. In either case, the proposed block will send a message. and prevent further disruption. DGG ( talk ) 17:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I should mention there is a project for writing articles about notable women in BritishColumbia, and I havea nd will continue to look at their articles to help, as have a number of othe good establishede ditors here. This does not sem to be from that project. DGG ( talk ) 17:38, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She seems to be notable,. and the article is not in a bad shape, so that in normal circumstances I could consider slightly improving it and accepting the draft, but I have no motivation to edit an article where the subject hires editors to write it.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:49, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, User:DGG - I agree that this is an experiment in a different way of dealing with a troublesome paid editor. I do not think that I have ever disagreed with using MFD to deal with repeated resubmissions. I have disagreed with the use of MFD on drafts that were stupid or cruddy, unless the drafts were being repeatedly resubmitted. I would like to have a consistent set of guidelines for when to send drafts to MFD, and when to deal with them in other ways. (The regular editor at MFD whom I think has variable views from week to week as to how to deal with stupid drafts is User:SmokeyJoe.) I am willing to follow a consistent set of guidelines. (If I have disagreed with the deleting of drafts that were repeatedly submitted, then I may have been mistaken.) I would prefer that it not involve routinely sending stupid drafts to MFD unless they are being tendentiously resubmitted, but I am willing to try to follow almost any reasonable set of guidelines. In this case, I don't want to Reject or Delete the draft, because the subject probably is notable, but the editor is being a problem. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, the user is not being paid by Dr. Johnson; rather, they are writing about her as an academic assignment (presumably from Dr. Johnson). I've trimmed the draft down, which should help. DS (talk) 19:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is my assignment but it is not Prof. Johnson who asked me to do it. It is part of Prof. Jeffries' class, to write about a Canadian scientist. I picked Prof. Johnson because she is a Professor at my university and qualifies for academic notability. Abhibedi999 (talk) 20:49, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry if I have caused a problem but I'm new to Wikipedia and don't know how it works. It is just an assignment and I'm not a paid writer. I'm a student doing his assignment. On recieving the first few comments I was just confused and also some comments appeared to be rude. I was being called a bad editor and causing a problem. I'm just a student trying to learn something new. I would kindly like to request you to review the changes I have made carefully this time. Abhibedi999 (talk) 20:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Two-Part Reply

Thank you. This is one of the very few replies to a complaint about conflict of interest editing that I have read in years that makes sense, seems true, and seems innocent. First, I am willing to close this report against User:Abhibedi999 without action. Since the draft has been edited by a neutral experienced editor (an administrator), we can review it without regard to conflict of interest. Second, I think that User:DGG and I agree that a topic-ban should be one of the various options available for conflict of interest editing or other disruptive editing. However, this particular dispute is resolved. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Urgent administrator attention needed RE Intelliname

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Please see history at Epik (domain registrar). Edit warring to whitewash the article and hurling personal attacks, accusations, and vague threats in edit summaries. Woerich (talk) 18:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment: I apologize for reporting this issue at multiple locations. I started with the edit warring noticeboard but realized vandalism might have been a better avenue, and this person keeps going. Woerich (talk) 18:26, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now blocked. 331dot (talk) 18:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can We get someone to revoke TPA please he is continuing his personal attacks, accusations (without proof may I add) and vague threats on his talk page. Tknifton (talk) 20:53, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done Cabayi (talk) 21:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

My full protection of Joe Biden 2020 presidential campaign

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have fully protected Joe Biden 2020 presidential campaign through the week of the election, as a precaution against shenanigans with respect to a likely target already under discretionary sanctions. I believe that in the past we have, of necessity, used a fairly heavy hand in protecting election-related or candidate-related articles during the thick of the election season, and I believe that we should do so far all articles of this level relating to the 2020 presidential campaign (broadly including Trump and Biden, any third party candidates that arise, and probably the candidates and campaigns in the more tightly contested Senate races). This has been questioned on my talk page, so I thought I would initiate a discussion on the matter here. Frankly, I have noticed more activity lately suggestive of sleeper accounts that have done enough to get past the extended-confirmed limitations, only to suddenly become very active in political candidate discussions. I think we would be naive not to recognize that there are likely well-orchestrated shenanigans underfoot. BD2412 T 16:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Seems unjustified to me. There are only a handful of edits per day on that article. I'm not seeing the sort of ongoing edit warring by multiple EC accounts that usually justifies full protection. Also BD I think your removal of content relating to the Reade allegations and arguing against its inclusion on the talk page makes you WP:INVOLVED, and I also disagree with your edit summary, "no source is provided in this section to indicate that it relates to the 2020 presidential campaign", which is pretty stunning. Of course quality sourcing is needed, but we know it exists now (the content you removed was cited to the New York Times), and the notion that these allegations are not related to the campaign is frankly laughable. I think you're improperly trying to keep this content out of the article and using your admin tools to do so. I do appreciate you bringing it here for review but I object to your reverting to keep relevant content out and then fully protecting. I think the bigger problem on that page are the established editors reverting every attempt to include this content. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 16:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Concur with Levivich. Semi-protection is reasonable, but I think fully protecting an article for 6 months is undue. It'll have enough eyes on it, anyway.--v/r - TP 16:51, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are well orchestrated shenanigans underfoot, and they are to protect Joe Biden from well sourced and notable encyclopedic information. I’ve never seen such actions to prevent something from being included on this website. This situation with Biden compared to Kavanaugh is shameful. We have users, with no RS backup, calling into question the credulity of Reade, when just a short while ago a now admin redacted me calling Swetnick’s accusation “Wild.” link. Where is the same protection for Reade? Mr Ernie (talk) 16:53, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    There has been ongoing discussion on the talk page, and across several other articles and talk pages, to develop a consensus about such materials. Clearly, where discussion is ongoing, consensus should be reached before such edits are made. The addition of such materials to articles for political candidate of any ideology, against consensus or against an ongoing process of developing consensus, is exactly the reason why all of these pages should be protected. We have long experience in non-notable individuals seeking notability through attempts to insert themselves in notable events. BD2412T 16:54, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    So now you’re attacking Reade too - unbelievable. If your opinion is she’s making this claim to get famous then you don’t need to be anywhere near that article. Mr Ernie (talk) 17:00, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Folks, please keep this content dispute off of ANI. Let's focus on whether or not we fully protect presidential candidates for 6+ months.--v/r - TP 17:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe it should be handled like Secret Service protection for presidential candidates...creffett (talk) 17:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes good point, thank you. Mr Ernie (talk) 17:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) I agree with Levivich it seems unjustified and inappropriate per WP:NO-PREEMPT. Especially while you are in a content dispute on the article per WP:PREFER. PackMecEng (talk) 16:54, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I am merely pointing out that there is a long history of non-notable individuals trying to use Wikipedia to become notable, and we always need to be cautious of that. My own neutrality in political matters is well-established. I have worked to eliminate overwrought claims and biased takes against political figures of every background. BD2412 T 17:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overkill. Agree with Levivich and TParis. The article will need to be edited by non admins. --Deep fried okra User talk:Deepfriedokra 16:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with other editor's, you are totally involved, and to say it isn't a campaign issue is nonsense, Biden's campaign has responded to the allegations in every article I've read, and furthermore, there is precedence as seen in Trump's 2016 presidential campaign. Isaidnoway (talk) 17:02, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I totally disagree with this. Full protection for 6 months? As if there will be nothing to report about the campaign during that time? Or only admins will be allowed to update the article (something I got called on the carpet for doing while Joe Biden was full protected)? Unheard of. Unacceptable. I recommend immediate reduction to Extended Confirmed. -- MelanieN (talk) 17:10, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • All of these articles have admin eyes on them, as they should. We have extensive experience on this project with articles on highly contentious and highly visible topics being protected for extended periods of time, and with edit requests being well-handled on the talk pages. I see nothing that distinguishes articles on political candidates in highly visible election campaigns from those situations. BD2412T 17:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • We do that for redirects and templates sometimes, but I've never heard of it happening on an article. Can you give me even a single example of an article being fully protected for more than a couple of days, particularly on a current event where we know it's going to be frequently updated? Here's every current fully-protected page, for reference. ‑ Iridescent 17:38, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I thought we had done that for some articles in previous election cycles, but I see that these were extended protection rather than full protection (with full protection being imposed for some days or a week at a time where edit wars flared up). I continue to believe that this will no longer be adequate, and that we are equipped to handle the full protection of all presidential candidate and campaign articles. BD2412 T 17:52, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reduce to Extended Confirmed BD2414, you appear to be involved so even if full protection is done, this needs to come from an uninvolved admin.--MONGO (talk) 17:11, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I oppose full protection of this or any other article unless there is solid evidence presented of an onslaught of disruptive editing by sleeper accounts. Where's the evidence? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 17:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Undone

As someone with no interest in Joe Biden and who has never heard of "Reade", I've reversed the protection. I can think of no legitimate circumstances under which we would ever consider full-protection of an article on an ongoing current event for six days, let alone for six months. The duration of the protection should be set as short as possible, and the protection level should be set to the lowest restriction needed in order to stop the disruption while still allowing productive editors to make changes., if anyone wants policy chapter-and-verse. ‑ Iridescent 17:17, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended confirmed protection seems like a good choice here. Also, I would imagine there's no reason why we can't get a few disinterested admins to help keep an eye on these high profile articles to address issue before they boil over. It's no secret that they have been inundated with meat and sock puppets, campaign staffers, and other non-encyclopedia-builders who take advantage of our liberal editing policies. - MrX 🖋 17:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I absolutely endorse the removal. When BD2412 said he had fully protected through "the week of the election" I initially assumed he must be referring to some upcoming primary. I couldn't believe he actually meant until November.-- P-K3 (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse lowering to ECP. ECP makes sense. Thanks, Iri. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 17:51, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was a bit staggered to realised it had been fully protected for six months. I very definitely endorse the reversal. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:53, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this article is supposed to be under 1RR, will an admin please place an edit notice on the article to that effect and make sure it's logged. Not a banner on the talk page that blends in with 50 other banners, but an edit notice as required by Arbcom procedures. - MrX 🖋 17:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Template:Editnotices/Page/Joe Biden 2020 presidential campaign added. El_C 18:12, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Face-smile.svg Thank you - MrX 🖋 20:18, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:INVOLVED

BD2412, I wasn't being hyperbolic above when I said I thought you were WP:INVOLVED and shouldn't use admin tools, at all, on any article relating to the 2020 presidential election. The reason is because you have been prolific in expressing preferences for content choices, even !voting to include or exclude content, on pages related to Joe Biden or his campaign. Here are twelve of your talk page comments from the past month: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. My hope is that by reviewing these, you'll agree that you have crossed over into being involved in the various content disputes, and thus, per WP:INVOLVED, shouldn't act as an admin in this topic area. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 17:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I can see how it would appear that way. I have no problem focusing my admin activities elsewhere. BD2412T 18:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 18:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Carmaker1

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The above user has displayed bad faith on his edit summaries, as evidenced here. I really don't know why he decided to attack me because of an edit he believes is incorrect. Further evidence can be seen on this talk page, where he continues to insist that I was on the wrong for the edits I made instead of simply saying the information was incorrect.

It also appears that this isn't the first time he has displayed such unprofessionalism here, based on his block log. At the same time, he has voiced out his opinions on Wikipedia in general on his talk page. Perhaps it is time action should be made to this user once and for all. - Areaseven (talk) 01:43, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What can be considered unprofessional is a lack of attention by you, to what was written by Mazda with a provided citatiom, the manufacturer of the product in question. Which in itself contradicts the opinionated narrative by the magazine. Making false implications in articles that will be read by hundreds of millions, if not over 1 billion people, is corrupting the information stream. I come here to add new content and for once, fix mistakes found in articles. No one comes here to babysit or play a game of cleanup, back and forth, because people are not hearing each other and insist on adding corrupt information to a page and blindly refusing to look closer at what trying to advocate for. I took great issue under the impression that I had already fixed this topic in the past and had to revisit it again annoyingly enough, because someone decided they wanted to revert it again.
It is annoying to be watching an automotive review, reading an article, hearing a news report, browsing social media/forums, about an automobile, then hear a contradictory gaffe. Then, often discover it originated from a Wikipedia article trying to give it credibility, based off of poor research.
My criticism of what you did on the talk page, is over the fact, many of you do not study a page history to understand why and when something was added by each user. You just add/remove and call it a day, revert, revert under some false premise of objectivity.
What I do see here, is you picking a fight over my expressing a concern for the ficitious text and yourself relying on unrelated matters to weakly support it. From what I can see, you have ideally fixed the issue at the page in question and have stopped creating a misleading narrative. If a number of you think that because I have told you explicitly about what you were doing wrong and that I do not like it one bit, calls for me to disappear from the face of the Earth, because it makes you feel better and soothes your ego, you're being quite childish. I've had 10x worse said to me on and off of Wikipedia as a PhD engineer, laden with epithets. No one has cussed you out, like a number of us have been (ever so unwelcomely). Re-reading my text, you are a merely a footnote regarding my frustration. Create a mountain out of molehill, because you were told what you're doing was a careless disservice to curious readers. We have to tread very lightly with what we report in articles as fact. It is very obvious to me, since I turned out to very correct about that information and in an effort to discredit me, you've taken it over here to blow off steam. Frankly, I'm sick of it, as there are many instances I could do the same to others. NONE of the my text directed towards this individual is particularly scathing. A huge glut of my criticism is directed at Evo magazine and for what I know, Areaseven is a victim to the writer's misleading nonsense. Those people have a duty to inform and entertain the masses, yet often do the opposite. As a UK citizen, I have often felt that the British motoring press has an air of indifference towards Japanese brands and rarely getting correct information about their developments into print. It has been my mission to counteract that indifference through Wikipedia and later on my own press company, after a few more years in the automotive industry as an engineering manager. It is furthermore frustrating to see other individuals fall for it very easily and then make my work difficult too, when people eat it up, hook, line, and sinker before I can fix it (or anyone else). And lastly I no longer refer to anyone directly whenever I have ever made an emotive edit summary, expressing disappointment. In your case I mentioned you and focused primarily on the issue with the content not you as a person. As I said before you are reaching and I find it peculiar, considering I just thanked your correction, because it reflects the truth as I intended.--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:20, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Reverting without discussing

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What is the procedure to deal with an editor who reverts and tell other editors to discuss, and then when those other editors do start a discussion, the editor continues to revert and refuses to take part in that discussion? This can be seen with Amaury (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Just Roll with It (edit talk history links watch logs), where Amaury reverted my edits twice [76][77], so I started a discussion at Template talk:Television season ratings [78] and even pinged him [79]. They continued to revert the edits of my notifications to his talk page [80][81][82][83], and have since never responded to the talk page discussion. Can I restore my edits if they refuse to discuss? -- /Alex/21 04:32, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recent reports against the editor that may be relevant here can be seen at:
-- /Alex/21 04:39, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You have no authority to order me to do anything. I will comment when I actually have something to comment with, not because you're ordering me to. There is no deadline to discuss anything. You only want one because you want things to go your way. I am well within my rights to remove harassing messages from my talk page. This ANI thread is premature as this user has a personal vendetta against me. And it's not the first time as this has been going on for years, with this user's history of WP:HOUNDING and other disruptive behavior toward not only myself, but IJBall as well. The only reason he even "cares" about the article in question is because he contribution stalked me there as is evident by the interaction tool here and here. Amaury • 04:52, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then you have no authority to revert me without discussing. You say "when I actually have something to comment with" - are you admitting that you have nothing to comment and thus no reason to revert? Are you solely reverting me for this apparent "vendetta" and only to edit-war, because you have nothing to contribute to the dispute? And what on Earth do you mean by "You only want one because you want things to go your way"? Is that not the very point of discussions? To come to a compromise when multiple editors disagree?
Your accusations are baseless; I have edited multiple Disney Channel series across the years, including the one involved above. You would do well to curb your false accusations, given the multitude of above reports and the fact that the last one, which concerned the very topic of false accusations, ended in a block against you only last year. -- /Alex/21 04:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My only comment here is that I agree that it's incredibly premature to take this to ANI – ANI is supposed to be a last resort, not a first resort. This should not have been filed until all other avenues were exhausted (which considering the short time frame is nowhere near the case). I'd recommend this be closed, and that the parties should attempt to hash this out at Talk:Just Roll with It --IJBall (contribstalk) 05:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I gave Amaury ample opportunity to discuss it; they reverted me six times instead, including making personal attacks throughout those reverts, as with the attacks above. Most certainly not premature, given that this is now the sixth report (that I could find) against them and their conduct. -- /Alex/21 05:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) When will you realize I don't care what you think? The discussions linked to above by the IPs are irrelevant. Nothing in either of them was actionable and no official warnings were issued. I will not "curb my false accusations" when they're true. Accusing someone of being a sock is far different than accusing someone of disruptive behavior, but I don't expect you to know the difference. There's plenty of evidence against you, but this isn't the place. Your time on this project will come. Just Roll with It was created on October 24, 2018, and moved into mainspace on April 27, 2019. It is not pure coincidence that you happened to show up on March 7, 2020, just to revert me without any valid policy reason. And this was after JDDS said "an eye should be kept on me."
I'm not perfect, but by my count you've been dragged to ANI far more times than me. Hm. I wonder why that is. You'll notice that I get along with almost 100% of editors I come across, so for editors I don't get along with, that tells me that the problem is with those editors, not myself or others. And I even have disagreements with editors I do get along with, but they do things right and are reasonable, so I'm more willing to discuss with them and we'll end up reaching a reasonable compromise—in some cases, I may end up mostly agreeing with them. In any case, I'm not the only one who has problems with you, but it's clear you have a personal vendetta against me, as you wanted sanctions to be imposed on me from JDDS' thread and were "sad" when nothing happened. This thread is absolutely premature and fully agree it should be closed.
I was perfectly correct in reverting you, and there were no personal attacks. You made a bold edit, and then it was reverted. so you should have gone to that article's talk page. Instead, you reverted again to try to make some stupid point and went over to the template talk page, when discussion should be happening at the article's talk page, as per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. Guidelines are not absolute. It makes sense to follow them when they make sense; when they don't, there's no harm in deviating from them a bit, but that doesn't matter to you. If it's something that will aid you, you will agree that a guideline is just that, a guideline, but if it's something that goes against how you think something should be, then guidelines are absolute. It doesn't work like that. Guidelines are guidelines, general best practices. If someone personally feels that a year can be added to a season header before episodes air in that year, it doesn't change the fact that WP:TVUPCOMING is a guideline. If someone personally feels that a year can't be added to a season header before episodes air in that year, it doesn't change the fact that WP:TVUPCOMING is a guideline. All guidelines are not absolute and are general best practices. Even policy pages can have exceptions, so not everything is absolute. And I certainly don't see multiple editors disagreeing with me here, as you claim.
"When I have something to comment with" means exactly what it says. I will comment when I comment, and you do not get to demand that I respond at a specific time, so I suggest you quit putting words in my mouth. You started the discussion at 8:47 PM and then demanded that I comment at 9:11 PM. That's 24 minutes, which is not ample time, even with me having activity after that. I could have hypothetically very well have gone to bed before you posted that notification or before you ordered me to comment at the template talk page, for all you knew. Not everyone will comment right away, especially not when they're ordered to. Some people will comment later in the day or the next day, depending on what time it's posted, to think of what to post and how to post it. It's like an essay. You're given a two weeks to write an essay. Generally, an essay that was worked on little by little in those two weeks will turn out much better than an essay that you did at the last minute and rushed through the night before because you procrastinated this much. Replying to comments on a wiki isn't an assignment, but responding to certain things on a wiki has a similar concept. Amaury • 05:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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70.71.241.6

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The IP persistently wants to include the term genocide in the article Persecution of Muslims during Ottoman contraction since the 3rd of April, refuses any discussion about the term, and was reverted by several editors. The term genocide is I think a bit too sensitive to be included by an IP who refuses a discussion about it. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:35, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Off-wiki Harassment

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Please note that I have chosen to not notify the IP I am reporting because doing so may result in me being harassed as well. I have no objections if someone else notifies them, but I refuse to interact with them in any way.

In this edit [84] 2001:d08:d8:432e:c963:35a6:f82:5afd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) threatened another user with off-wiki harassment. I noticed it when I got a strange post to my talk page and looked at the posting history. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Already done. El_C 12:40, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The IP comes round every few days to post more stuff on Mortal Engines and related articles. IP changes each time. Koncorde (talk) 12:44, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are plenty of others; all 2001:d08:D8 -[85],[86],[87],[88]. Koncorde (talk) 13:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If they're all 2001:d08:d8::, then a /48 would work and cause less collateral damage. creffett (talk) 13:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
From a quick look, it looks like most of 2001:d08:d8::/48 's contributions have been this editor. Do we have any evidence of account creation? If so, we'd probably want a CU to peek under the hood to check for collateral damage before going for the wider block. creffett (talk) 13:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No users that I am aware of. Edits are by original user Starkiller88, otherwise known as Bryan_Seecrets and all relate around the same themes / prolonged harassment of certain individuals. I reverted some of the inanity a few months back and got added to his twitter feed, reddit and 4chan screeds and regular wiki-spam. Koncorde (talk) 13:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why he thinks that I had anything to do with the Mortal Engines page or why he thinks I support Trump and Brexit -- which I clearly do not? --Guy Macon (talk) 13:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You reverted something at some point and that likely got his attention. Bryan See is unfortunately a little fixated on a certain set of themes, and has it in his head that either everything truly is a worldwide conspiracy, or that by mentioning our names in tweets or other mediums that this is exposing us to some army of Anons and / or going to intimidate people into no longer reverting his mixture of legitimate but misguided updates, his surreal obsessions with his own head-canon about documented works, and his self self promotion of whatever he is working on (but never completing).
I was unaware of the guy until a month or so ago, now I am one of his go-to guys. Running out of characters on his Twitter posts though, so you should be safe. Koncorde (talk) 14:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Joelinton potential edit war

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I checked the recent edits to help Wikipedia and revert vandalism, I then noticed the Joelinton page saying that he was going to play with other notable football players in the future, so someone reverted it and added some warnings. Then somebody else undid the reversion and someone else joined in. So I reverted their edits and added template warinings. Then the second one got rid of the warnings, reverted the unvandalised page and then reported me for vandalism. Then the first person that did the revert reverted the page again, then it was reverted by the second vandaliser, with the summary "First reverter is gay". I most likely would add a template to their talk page, if I knew they wouldn't revert it. Note: first vandaliser was blocked.

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IP continuing behaviour after 3rd block

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71.135.29.179 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

User has been blocked three times for unsourced genre changes, last was for 2 weeks. Since that block ended user has made 5 edits, all inappropriate unsourced genre changes:

Special:Diff/950422788
Special:Diff/950635185
Special:Diff/951363263
Special:Diff/951379477
Special:Diff/951410688

Captainllama (talk) 14:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Inappropriate reference to CIR

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Look at this discussion from WP:VPR:

Phone number and verification

Hi, I believe that one of the most annoying problems in Wikipedia is sockpuppeting. Sockpuppets use IPs and accounts. I wonder if we asked for verified phone number when creating an account, would that limit the number of sockpuppets who use accounts?. Twitter, Facebook and YouTube do it, why not Wikipedia? I know this isn't the right place to propose this but I want to see if this is a good idea or not so that I can propose it in another venue.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 01:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

You're the same person who proposed #Checkuser notification?? I'll let you consider the implications. --Izno (talk) 02:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I’m starting to think there is a CIR issue here. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 07:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I removed that comment because it was personal attack per WP:CIR. I have been contributing to this encyclopedia in good-faith. I don't appreciate someone saying that I am not competence. Symmachus wants to add the comment back.

This is not the first time Symmachus Auxiliarus comes out of nowhere attacking me personally, I remember one time he said I am biased and other stuff.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 11:43, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Raising the issue of possible CIR is not a “personal attack”, as you claimed. Neither is it a reason for you to refactor/remove my comment. If you felt it was inappropriate, you simply could have spoken to me, rather than posted a template warning, threatened me in the edit summary, and refactored my comment. That was not a personal attack. It falls *way* short of one. Reasonable concerns about user conduct and competency are exempt, and good faith contributions are not a reason for not raising such issues. There is an extensive history of why we allow for anonymity, and this was the second related thread you started in just a few days, after other editors explaining it to you.
If there is any other time I “attacked you personally”, please post the diffs. I have never done so. If you meant my explaining the WP:PROFRINGE policy and explaining the general community consensus on fringe articles, that is neither a personal attack, nor anything beyond normal editing practices. I’m sorry, but this filing is frivolous. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 11:56, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Raising the CIR accusation is a personal attack and gaslighting. I have never said we shouldn't allow anonymity. Your comment is inappropriate. Also, I am talking about that time when you said I am biased in Yemeni related articles. I find your comment totally inappropriate.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 12:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t recall ever saying anything like that. In fact, I don’t think I would, generally. Please post a diff and/or give some context. I’ve never interacted with you directly on any article related to Yemen. You followed an edit I made to one article I XFD’d, which you had never previously edited. But later recreated as a redirect. Even then, I never interacted with you. I’m sorry, but this is starting to look ridiculous. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 12:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SharabSalam, and do you think you are unbiased? Guy (help!) 12:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll respond to direct queries and monitor this thread while I can (I have a Latin class soon), but I trust editors to see this as a frivolous or retaliatory filing, especially given our sole interaction (so far as I know), on Naomi Seibt. I was always civil with you. As I said, your actions here are way overboard. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 12:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Symmachus Auxiliarus: Just commenting to point out that you can use this tool to check whether/where you have interacted with another editor. --JBL (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Honestly I’ve only ever used Xtools and Earwig’s applications. I’ll note that in the future. However, I’m almost positive I’m being accurate here, allowing for some possible human error. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 12:29, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You have literally being following me in lots of articles.
here reverting me in Yemeni civil war article [89] And here about tribes of Arabia [90] talk page: [91] here reverting removal of snooganssnoogans comment (and also sent me a template about that). Also, [92]. Also, the Noemi thing where you said I am pushing fringe views by saying that "Climate change skeptic” is a euphemism used by proponents of climate change denial. -SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 12:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have all of those article watchlisted. Someone with the appropriate tools can confirm. We have an overlap in interests. I’m not following you. The only reason why I said you followed me to the one article is because it was only linked one place on Wikipedia, and was rather obscure. Plus, the article was already deleted, so you’d only be able to find it per my contributions. But I don’t mind that you did. Just noting it.
So, I’ve reverted you once, asked why you made an edit another time. Are any of these the diffs for the personal attacks you mentioned? Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 12:34, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Which article you're talking about? I have never followed you. I am little bit busy right now. You comment was in this page in SharabSalam thread.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 12:39, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rahmanism (note to other users that this was recreated as a redirect, and the previous article was deleted). Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 12:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What about it? I have never seen you there.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 12:56, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have that article in my watchlist..I only noticed the deletion by the admin. The rationale for the proposed deletion was so uninformed and I recreated that article (I saw the rationale in the deletion log that appears on the article). Are you the one who made that proposed deletion?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 12:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can you tell me how did you know about this discussion [93]?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You mean that discussion where Symmachus Auxiliarus agreed with you? Strange thing to pick up on. Black Kite (talk) 13:32, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There was no way to disagree with me at that time and he kept actually saying that the edit is not absolute vandalism. --SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:36, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do we both also have interest in my talk page?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Accusations about stalking etc. are a distraction. I suggest sticking to the topic of this complaint. SPECIFICO talk 13:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't thinkSharabSalam is incompetent, just that they get carred away—but that this can be to the detriment of collegiality, however. ——SN54129 13:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Which is saying that I am incompetent. Per WP:CIR be cautious when referencing this as it would be personal attack. There is no way I am incompetent because I suggested that anyone who is going to create an account should also provide a phone number. Editors already put their emails and verify them. I am not sure why he said I am incompetent because I suggested that. I wasn't sure what that editor was talking about when he suggested I am incompetent. I even thought that he is saying because my English language in that comment wasn't understandable him. Referencing the CIR was totally inappropriate in that discussion and its not the first time as I said this editor appears many times suddenly when I am in a weak position.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no requirement to supply an email address to register. Do you really not have the competence to realise just how much privacy (and safety in some parts of the world) would be compromised if people had to supply a verified phone number? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:35, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We already provide IP addresses, type of devices and other information to Wikipedia. I am not saying they would be public. Facebook, Twitter and many other respected companies already ask for a verified phone numbers. Also, why would you reference my competence again? Why am I getting all of this hate for suggesting that?.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:39, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you continually involve yourself in discussions on topics where you demonstrate little clue, it will make people get snippy at you after a while. Don't compound that by throwing tantrums over minor issues. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which is more damaging to someone's reputation?
    • Editor A referring to CIR regarding Editor B, once, on the Village Pump.
    • Editor B posting to the most heavily watched page on the project "Editor A thinks I'm incompetent!" ... "Hey, Editor A thinks I'm incompetent!" ... "It's not right that Editor A thinks I'm incompetent!" ... "I want something done about the fact that Editor A thinks I'm incompetent!" ... "Let's get back to the fact that Editor A thinks I'm incompetent!".
You sure do show up on this page a lot, SS. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:40, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I literally warned him not to reference CIR again and he posted a warning in my talk page saying that I should restore his inappropriate comment. I didn't want to come here. It's not my fault. I should go where to report this personal attack? I should just stay silent?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 13:45, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. That's what I try to do when someone says something mean about me. I ignore them. They go away. It simplifies my life by a factor of 10. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:52, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Put yourself in my shoes. I went there and proposed that phone numbers be required when someone creates an account. This way sockpuppets wouldn't be able to create multiple accounts using the same number because Wikipedia would say "this number is already used". This happens in Twitter, Facebook and other companies to prevent users from creating multiple accounts. My intention was in good-faith. I wanted to stop sockpuppets and LTA accounts, that's all. I never expected to be called incompetent because of that. I am not incompetent. I have being editing in this project for two years just to make it more neutral and to expand it and I really care about the personal data of other editors. I even proposed that each time an editor gets checked by a checkuser, he should be notified (not by a talk page post, but by a notification that appears in the notification bar).--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As I said before, the comment doesn’t remotely qualify as a personal attack. It was valid given the context. You’re free to disagree. And as I said, you were free to raise such a concern to me. I didn’t “warn” you. I said your removal was inappropriate, and asked you to refrain from refactoring comments, and asked you to restore it. Two other editors disagreed with your removal, and one of them restored it. This is much ado about nothing, Sharab. I was trying to be civil and resolve this personally. You threatened to get me sanctioned in an edit summary, gave me a templated warning, and were generally belligerent. Overall, I’ve been quite civil with you.
And I’m still waiting for those diffs of other supposed personal attacks I’ve made against you. This is now the third time I’ve asked. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 14:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You said I have "intrinsic bias" "He does less good work in articles related to Israel and Palestine, Islam (though he’s been somewhat amenable there), and AmPol". You were absolutely not involved in that yet you found the opportunity to say that. Please don't follow me and don't post things in my talk page where you are not involved like [94].--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:19, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So.... are you saying that it's appropriate for some Wikipedian to delete someone else's comments basically because they don't like the comments made? Im pretty sure there are guidelines around that. And raising the posibility that someone has access to personal data and the problems it could cause, followed by "let's add to that personal data" seem to be "misguided" at the very least. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:54, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Personal attacks should be removed.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:09, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By that logic, no one could ever come to this very page and made a CIR claim, it's always a personal attack. And you are saying that there is nothing wrong with first raises the posibility that someone with bad intentions could get access to personal data and then suggesting we add even more data to said personal data pool to make it even easier for those with bad intentions to track down users? The fact that you cannot see that those two trains of thought are at odds could lead some to question if you've really thought through your proposals. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:15, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They can but they need to provide evidences. Also, I am not saying that the phone numbers would be public. No one would have access to them. The system will store the phone numbers and not allow duplicated numbers. This is the same with Twitter, Facebook and others.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:27, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No one would have access to them. - So they gather data, and NO ONE could ever see it? So I work in IT, if its in the database, someone, somewhere would have access to it, impossible for that to not be the case. It may not be a checkuser or whatever, but someone does. I guess in this case the "incompetence" is the fact that you don't seem to have any idea how this kind of thing works? I am 110% sure that someone at Twitter or Facebook can look up those phone numbers if they so desire, they have to be stored somewheree to check against after all, if they are stored somewhere, someone CAN read them. And with you raising the fear that someone "high up" could have bad intentions or corrupted it means that you should be concerned that someone with bad intentions could have access to phone numbers. So your two completly opposite trains of thought and the fact that you don't seem to get that they are opposite is the "evidence" that perhaps in this case you do not actually know what you are talking about. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
...besides, neither Twitter nor Facebook actually requires a phone number – they ask for it but it's perfectly possible to create an account without providing that info. Not that the situations would be comparable anyway. --bonadea contributions talk
I know that already. I not saying that a sysadmin wouldn't be able to see phone numbers. Of course any data you enter like credit card information when you donate can be seen if someone who has access to Wikipedia's system. I am saying that it wouldn't be public. You can stay on twitter for one to two days without a phone number then they suspend your account if you don't enter your phone number.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 15:13, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Facebook may not be the best place to reference when you're saying that users should be forced to give phone numbers... 1 2 aboideautalk 15:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)It's not a personal attack. Ever heard of the Streisand effect? I'd suggest dropping the stick. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SharʿabSalam, you are the only one who is calling it a personal attack. SPECIFICO talk 14:19, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SharabSalam, Symmachus Auxiliarus just said in this thread "Raising the issue of possible CIR is not a 'personal attack'” but you still call that a personal attack? Maybe there really is something V-shaped coming around. SemiHypercube 14:20, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is a personal attack when there is no evidence I am incompetent. If someone think I am incompetent they should provide evidences for that. Per WP:CIR, Be cautious when referencing this page, particularly when involved in a dispute with another editor, as it could be considered a personal attack. also Jauerback referencing mentality is gaslighting.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:24, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Raising WP:CIR does not constitute a personal attack, and as such is not actionable here. Unless someone besides the OP has an objection, this thread should be closed to prevent further time wasting. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:07, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Close it. This thread is totally a waste of time. I know that baseless CIR accusation is a personal attack yet editors here making comments with about mentality and no admin is saying anything about it. Will note this incident and if I got followed by that same editor again I will never tolerate that.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 15:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Postings from Harold Lloyd Enterprises

A representative of Harold Lloyd Enterprises (User:HLE1893) has been posting at various talk pages requesting the removal of all content relating to silent film star Harold Lloyd's alleged involvement in encouraging/enforcing racially restrictive covenants in Beverly Hills in the 1940s. The user contends that the information, though supported by four reliable sources (including a 1945 newspaper article and three books published by reputable publishing houses), is false and jeopardizes funding for a proposed feature film on Lloyd's life. The lengthy posting by HLE1893 was done first on a user talk page (here), then at the Harold Lloyd talk page (here), a month later on the talk page of the Harold Lloyd Estate (here), and yesterday on my talk page (here). In response to the letter, the first recipient of the note removed the content from the Harold Lloyd page, though some content remains on the Harold Lloyd Estate page. This follows a similar pattern in August 2019 that resulted in the indefinite block of User:Chatterbox1880 for violating Wikipedia policy on legal threats.

I prepared a detailed response to HLE1893 earlier today which is found at: Talk:Harold Lloyd#Response to HLE1893. I am not suggesting or requesting a block of HLE1893 as I would like to give them an opportunity to respond to my requests for further information. Absent an indication that the four reliable sources have retracted their statements, my preliminary inclination is to rewrite the content to concisely report what the four reliable sources stated, with an explicit balancing statement that the heirs of Mr. Lloyd deny his involvement in supporting such restrictive covenants. However, as this involves implied (if not explicit) threats of legal action, I am posting here to see if anyone has other thoughts/suggestions on steps that should be taken. Cbl62 (talk) 18:56, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eeesh, that message is a hair's breadth away from a legal threat (and I'm 99% certain it was written by a lawyer). It's not quite there, but it's basically a "here's what you're doing wrong, change it or we'll take legal action" letter with the "or we'll take legal action'" removed. creffett (talk) 19:09, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but that matters. In fact I think they raise good points. EEng 19:49, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not saying they didn't - but I suspect I'm not the only one who gets a little nervous when someone posts a message in legalese ("My client ("The Client") queries that you enumerate the habeas corpus of the nolo contendere to prove the party of the first part's negligent compliance") yes I know that's complete gibberish instead of just talking like a normal person ("hi, I work for the article subject, you say such-and-such in the article but here are sources that say otherwise"). creffett (talk) 20:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They use the word "besmirches", you know it's for real. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bee smirches. EEng 00:48, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The HLE letter did raise some inaccuracies as to details in the discussion at Harold Lloyd Estate. I have now edited the treatment there to omit those alleged inaccuracies and reduce the discussion of Lloyd's role to the following accurate (and balanced) sentence: "Though disputed by his heirs, several published accounts have described Lloyd as a leader in the drive to prevent African-Americans and others from residing in the area.[1][2][3]"
Removing the discussion in its entirety would constitute inappropriate censorship on a matter of importance -- i.e., the role of prominent whites outside the South, in the "liberal" North and South in carrying out restrictive covenants which were one of the most insidious (and successful) mechanisms for enforcing de facto racial segregation. Cbl62 (talk) 20:37, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Meyer, Stephen Grant (2001). As Long As They Don't Move Next Door: Segregation and Racial Conflict in American Neighborhoods. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 76. ISBN 978-0-8476-9701-4. Retrieved August 19, 2012.("one of the white home owners who led the challenge to black occupancy in Beverly Hills was also an actor: the silent-screen comedian, Harold Lloyd.")
  2. ^ "Harold Lloyd Heads Anti-Negro Drive". The Chicago Defender. July 28, 1945.( "The famous film comedian of the silver screen was reported as the prime instigator of the new Beverly Hills restrictive covenant drive. A recent letter, sent out over the name of the famous actor, called for a meeting of residents here to sign restrictive covenants.")
  3. ^ Amina Hassan (2015). Loren Miller: Civil Rights Attorney and Journalist. University of Oklahoma Press. p. 132. (asserting that Lloyd "led the drive to keep blacks and Jews from moving into nearby Beverly Hills.")
Out of an abundance of caution, I modified further so that the sentence now simply reads: "Though disputed by his heirs, several published accounts have described Lloyd as a leader in the drive to adopt restrictive covenants." If we can't even say this much, then we may as well abandon efforts to an accurate source of information. Cbl62 (talk) 20:42, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is getting out of control. You can't possibly imagine we're going to have an article say though disputed by his heirs because of what someone posted in a talk page discussion. EEng 21:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I included the "disputed by his heirs" language in light of the prior explicit threat of litigation by Chatterbox and the current implied threat by HLE. I viewed my language as a prudent application of WP:IAR. If the consensus is that such qualifying language is neither helpful nor appropriate, I will abide by the community consensus. But under no circumstance IMO opinion should we wholly censor the core statement -- which is supported by four reliable sources. Cbl62 (talk) 22:58, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll say it again: we absolutely, positively don't put in language like this based on a talk page post by someone claiming to be somebody. EEng 02:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I'm personally aware of that restrictive covenant applying to property in the Fairfax District, Los Angeles, not far away. The restrictive covenant is stated in deeds to all properties in the area, though a letter from LA city or county stating that the covenants were overturned by legislation in 1965 or so (i think referring to U.S. national civil rights law plus city/county resolution) is legally required to be included in the papers of any real property transaction. That stemmed from the express wishes/conditions of the person/family (Hancock or some other name which is similarly represented in placenames in the area today) that owned the very large, larger-than-Fairfax area, maybe extending to border of Beverly Hills which was subdivided in the 1910s or 1920s or so. It was called something like the "Hancock tract", before subdivision. I don't see the restrictive covenants mentioned in any of the Wikipedia articles about neighborhoods. The West Adams, Los Angeles article reports an echo of them: "The development of the West Side, Beverly Hills and Hollywood, beginning in the 1910s, siphoned away much of West Adams' upper-class white population; upper-class blacks began to move in around this time, although the district was off limits to all but the very wealthiest African-Americans." West Adams became a black majority area, I understand because it didn't have the restrictive covenants of the areas further west and north. I think there must be available history sources covering all this. A mapping out the development of the larger area, with tracts identified as to year of subdivision and shaded about their covenants, would sure be interesting. And this stuff oughta be mentioned in the neighborhood / area articles. Perhaps greater, appropriate coverage of the use of restrictive covenants in development of Los Angeles area would go some way towards addressing the HLE concerns. If Harold Lloyd led in effort to bring the covenants to Beverly Hills, that should be said, but it would be better to have it placed in bigger context, i.e. that was an effort to extend use of the covenants from adjacent (i think) if not surrounding areas, and related to likely protection of property values which surely would have been a factor for people building homes in the area, etc. Not forgiving it, but this would not have been a new racist initiative being introduced from out of the blue by Harold Lloyd and associates. Unless it was that, and the covenants then spread east back to Fairfax (but I think the development process went from east to west towards Beverly Hills). If this Los Angeles-area restrictive covenants is not yet addressed extensively somewhere in Wikipedia, it oughta be; people living there should know that is the history. --Doncram (talk) 22:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Covenant (law)#Exclusionary covenants mentions this, but with no detail and "citation needed" about Los Angeles being an example; it does include this source about Palos Verdes, an article written with help of a Los Angeles Public Library librarian. --Doncram (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. The article does not state or suggest that Lloyd invented restrictive covenants. Nor does any Wikipedia article brand him as a "racist". These covenants became popular in the 1920s and 1930s as a "clever" way to enforce supposedly de facto segregation in "liberal" cities. While some likely had overtly racist motives for the covenants, others likely viewed them as a means of preserving property values. Lloyd's role in advocating for such covenants, as described in four reliable sources, should not be overstated -- nor should it be censored or deleted. Cbl62 (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • HLE1893 has been indef blocked for making legal threats, and for being a suspected sock of Chatterbox1880. Lawyers like money, and they would more likely be filing a suit against WMF, not on a talk page to a lone unpaid editor. No monetary value in going after an unpaid volunteer. They would also know the entire legal history of any discrimination that happened in the area. — Maile (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe this was a real mistake. Detailed lawyerly reasoning does not constitute a legal threat. I'm going nuclear by pinging in Newyorkbrad for his august opinion. (I believe everything you need is at Talk:Harold_Lloyd#Restrictive_covenant.) EEng 02:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Why wait 'til August? Let's ask for his April opinion. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 04:07, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        You may march upstairs right now, young man! EEng 05:32, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Should not have been blocked, that cuts off communication, and the person was working completely properly, making a reasoned request. --Doncram (talk) 03:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I see that I've been pinged to this thread, but it's almost midnight here—I'll take a look at this tomorrow (my time) if it hasn't been resolved by then. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:43, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, I stated from the outset in this thread that "I am not suggesting or requesting a block of HLE1893 as I would like to give them an opportunity to respond." Cbl62 (talk) 08:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Newyorkbrad They have presented themselves as official representatives of the estate, with no proof of who they say they are. They now have the opportunity to provide that proof through the Unblock Ticket Request System. If they are who they say are, the unblocking, and any concerns they have about the estate and Wikipedia, can be handled there. — Maile (talk) 12:15, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, if nothing else, their comment We represent Harold Lloyd Entertainment, Inc. (“HLE”). indicates a shared role account, which is blockable in itself. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:15, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Newyorkbrad I have unblocked them, as the blocking admin. You all can figure out the rest, but perhaps it's better to err on the side of caution when the issue might not be so clear-cut. — Maile (talk) 19:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. In other cases I prefer to hear out what a lawyer-type representive having COI has to say, and to try to work with them. E.g. advise about use of royal we in communication, which one individual lawyer-type person plausibly might do semi-automatically, but which suggests/raises issue of sharing an account (not allowed here). They (using the "royal they"? no, using the non-gendered pronoun alternative to saying "he/she" which is fairly often used in Wikipedia discussion) need to take personal individual responsibility for what their account states anywhere in Wikipedia, in order to participate and be taken seriously in Wikipedia discussion. It could be an accepted core value and good practice for lawyers and staff, in working together, to use "we" to share credit or to avoid taking undue credit when they say "we represent" or "we believe". If in fact several persons have jointly drafted their arguments, for Wikipedia one individual still needs to take individual responsibility and recast it in form of "I and my colleagues believe", or better "I (and my colleagues) believe" or better "I believe". However, it does rub me the wrong way when the lawyer-type throws up a litany of arguments and suggestions, including some specious, hair-splitting, insincere ones, or when they exaggerate, as they have done (including at Talk:Harold Lloyd#Restrictive covenant, which i think is the main discussion). Maybe that works in some legal settings, but for me it establishes that they lie and deliberately mislead, and they are willing to lie, and they believe it is their job to lie, which is not acceptable here. And it undermines their credibility in all their other statements and my patience in dealing with them at all. --Doncram (talk) 14:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lawyers say "we represent" or "this office represents" as a matter of accuracy: the lawyer is saying that the whole law firm, not just the person signing the letter, represents the client. Solo practitioners typically say "I represent", unless they're being pretentious. It looks to me like someone took a typical take down notice, removed the lawyerly bits, and posted it on wiki. Generally if a message is not signed by a lawyer I assume it's not from a lawyer since lawyers almost always identify themselves in any correspondence sent on behalf of a client. It's ethically required (and that is not a legal threat). Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 15:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NOTHERE editing by Ataxan.az

Hi, the reported editor is attacking other editors who disagree with him : [95] and saying this kind of nonesenses :

  • "Wow, everybody tells that Wikipedia is not a reliable source of anything and reading it is a waste of time but I never have believed it. I understand it better now."
  • "Instead of appreciating, insight contributions like mine which you probably will not find in any source (they are the result of years and years of personal research and gatherings) you reject them"

etc ... Obviously not here to build an encyclopedia.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 12:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whereas their behavior is hardly exemplary, they have not edited after the warnings. Let us wait and see what happens.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Ymblanter: Thanks for your insight. Cheers.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 20:06, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ataxan azer advertising nickname of the Azerbaijani internal site. Subject to editing the nickname. ZokidinUZB (talk) 07:57, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't real really deal with username issues, but per WP:PROMONAME, I don't see how ataxan.az is a problem since it's not a registered domain name [96] Nil Einne (talk) 14:37, 15 April 2020 (UTC) 21:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive renaming of several pages

Hayq11 (talk · contribs) shows a highly disruptive behavior by renaming several pages of medieval Armenian authors, including Mesrop Mashtots and many others from their widely-accepted English names (e.g. Mesrop Mashtots) to ones with diacritics (e.g. Mesrop Maštocʻ) used in academic literature without any discussion whatsoever. Please revert his arbitrary moving of pages. ----Երևանցի talk 09:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done--Ymblanter (talk) 11:54, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive editing while logging out

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Barind is suspectable of it, check the edit history at [97], look at both edit summaries of Barind and ip [98]. Also Barind has removed multiple sourced information from various pages, received a previous warning which he removed from his talk page. That can be handled at AIV but I am filing this report here because of suspecting him of making disruptive edits while logged out. 43.245.122.101 (talk) 06:30, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adding another ip to the list, appears that Barind uses dynamic ip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A0A:A546:7FB1:0:1518:61BC:38FE:BF40 43.245.122.101 (talk) 09:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In case its brought up, I confess my ip is also dynamic, I have no control over its range auto changing. 43.245.123.120 (talk) 10:00, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

user:Cokestunt

Sockmaster and sock drawer have been blocked.--v/r - TP 14:58, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Call to report “racist” and anti Indian editors. Not sure what to make of this, but it seems an open invitation for harassment of editors. Kleuske (talk) 08:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cocaine is a helluva drug. – 2.O.Boxing 08:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't pretend to recognise what's going on, but the following accounts are confirmed to each other: Cokestunt, Ronalddesa, Amanverma121, Levisoil23, Thomasverve, Palerefer1. Sock or meat or some other coincidence, I leave it for you to decide. -- zzuuzz(talk) 08:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
With the exception of Palerefer1, all of the other accounts seem to be interested in Faisal Farooqui, and Amanverma121 was reported to COIN by Bri regarding edits to the Farooqui article. I'm not familiar enough with the history of that article to know exactly what's going on either, but given that Amanverma121 also called Bri racist in an edit summary, I feel like this might be some retaliation over that article/the COIN report. creffett (talk) 13:30, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Zzuuzz:: Can you look at User:TakebackWiki4nativeEnglishONLY. It just screams like it was a false flag account specifically to advance a cause based on this edit by Cokestunt.--v/r - TP 16:11, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Nice catch there! creffett (talk) 16:15, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's possible, but I can't be more definitive than that. Same geolocation, same OS, different type of Internet connection. -- zzuuzz (talk) 16:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe for another forum, but if we have a genuine issue of perceived unequal treatment of non-North American topics, that needs to be addressed. I didn't know if this guy started out earnest, or was a troll from the start. ☆ Bri (talk) 16:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wonder if a "sensitive topics noticeboard" would be good for issues that an administrator shouldn't just steamroll through? I was reviewing some edits on Croatia today and if I wasn't already aware of the controversial issues I might have stupidly taken action. Ended up leaving it for someone better versed.--v/r - TP 16:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Define a "sensitive topic." Then ask 15 more people what a "sensitive topic" is and collate all 16+ responces here. —A little blue Bori v^_^v Onward to 2020 18:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Some problems with the page of the physicist Seth Lloyd

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There is an anonymous that modified heavily the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Lloyd. Lloyd was involved in a minor case in the Epstein's affair. Anyway, his contributions to physics are indisputable. Maybe, some intervention by an administrator is in need here. Thanks.--Pra1998 (talk) 22:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I removed additional, superfluous tags. I’m a little bit familiar with his work so if I have time later I might do so some more. Viriditas (talk) 23:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Additional note: the focus on Epstein in the article is a good example of undue weight. It does not deserve to take up three paragraphs, let alone a good percentage of the article. Viriditas (talk) 23:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I trimmed it down to one paragraph. Viriditas (talk) 23:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:CringPosting369

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Hi! Please block this user because of his vandalism on page 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Turkmenistan. Thanks--Dimon2712 (talk) 11:09, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Dimon2712: Use WP:AIV in the future. Anarchyte (talk work) 11:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

KingOpti101

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

KingOpti101 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I am not taking action myself because I am involved. This user has repeatedly edited 2020 United States Senate election in Maine to add the current officeholder(Susan Collins) as the nominee of her party for the upcoming election. She is not technically the nominee until the primary election has concluded, even though she is the only candidate. I've mentioned this to KingOpti101 a couple times on their talk page, and started a discussion on the article talk page, but gotten no reply. In examining their edit history they have made similar edits on other US Senate election articles, mostly to add "TBD"(to be determined) which is okay I guess, but they've also prematurely added party nominees to other election articles. I'm not sure if they are unaware of their user talk page or just ignoring it, but I think something should be done. Thanks 331dot (talk) 01:07, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You buried the lede. I'll grudgingly admit that technically Collins (and other unopposed candidates) isn't/aren't the nominee(s) yet. But, come on, she (and they) is/are the nominee(s) for all practical purposes, and I don't understand what is served by leaving it blank for now. And I really don't understand why it is important enough to bring it here.
However, their talk page is full of complaints of one sort or another, going back more than a year, to which they have never, in 4000+ edits, replied. That's unacceptable. If it seems sufficient to you, I can leave a note on their talk page that they will be blocked from editing if they do not address this issue the next time they get back online, before they start editing articles. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:03, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeking resolution of the actual dispute here, I just want to communicate with the user. As I said, I brought it here because I am involved. Thanks 331dot (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oops- yes, that is satisfactory to me. 331dot (talk) 11:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've done so. I have their talk page on my watchlist, but let me know if they resume editing before addressing your concerns. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This user has never once used any talk, user talk, or project pages; nor has this user ever bothered with an edit summary. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 14:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Bad, perhaps, moving

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user:Anarchyte moved Wikipedia:Introduction to Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Introduction (historical): Revision history moreover what about the included or not subpages. Thanks a lot. Regards--Pierpao (talk) 08:59, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is already a discussion about this, started by Anarchyte, at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Wikipedia:Introduction page move. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:04, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, this was an accidental move. Forgot that giving it the Wikipedia namespace duplicates the prefix if you copy and paste Wikipedia:[here]. Anarchyte (talk work) 09:15, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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vandal

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yevgeny12 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CAE:7100:28B0:B16A:39A4:CE66 (talk)

  • Unsigned editor: first, you report vandalism at WP:AIV, not here. Second, the editor you are reporting has recieved no vandalism warnings at all and is brand new. Third, there's nothing resembling WP:VANDALISM their contributions. Fourth, you need to sign your messages. Fifth, it's mandatory (and there is a very bright notice is in the edit window to that effect) you notify any editor you report or mention in writing on their talk page. Normally, I'd inform you that you should have notified them, and then leave the notification you omitted, but not here. Your report is bogus. There is no vandalism in his edits. John from Idegon (talk) 10:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @John from Idegon: I would probably classify this edit as vandalism, but otherwise spot on. — MarkH21talk 10:34, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe. Maybe just clueless, and my read of AGF says we err on the conservative side. There's still nothing here that would even merit an AIV report, much less ANI. It's far more likely a newbie/misguided report. OP is far more in need of course correction than the reported editor, IMO. John from Idegon (talk) 10:41, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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move article to draft namespace

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Please move Linda iLham Barto to draft name again. This article created on 24 January 2020‎ by user:Shakibim & next day Linda iLham Barto herself edited the article. On 25 January 2020‎, submission was declined by User:KylieTastic. Today i noticed it was move to main namespace by author without approval & minutes later Linda iLham Barto herself edited the article again (very suspicious!). Anyway this article should be moved to draft namespace. --আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 20:46, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft space isn't a replacement for a deletion discussion. If you think the article doesn't belong in mainspace, you should nominate it for deletion. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:14, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Akbarmaulana240420001 removing Speedy Tags

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user:Akbarmaulana240420001 just removed a CSD tag fro man article she created herself after her final warning. CLCStudent (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've issued a warning. Let's hope that sticks. El_C 16:20, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Blocked 48 hours and page deleted.--v/r - TP 16:52, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay... I still think we've could have given my warning a chance, though. El_C 16:58, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. When deciding between leaving another warning vs blocking the user, it never hurts to go with the former option and see what happens. The worst case scenario with doing so is that the user continues the disruptive behavior despite the warning given. Then, you can just block the user as you would've before. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 17:12, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Wikihounding

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I am very tired of dealing with User:Dennis Bratland, who I have requested to no longer engage nor address me on my user talk page numerous times, realizing that any commentary left by them is almost never meant to be genuinely constructive and is often a form of posturing for an audience. It comes as a method of antagonizing me and inserting themselves into matters that do not involve their input. Unlike others, this particular user seems invested in following me around and that of my edits, similar to another user in User:Sable932 (who does not litter my talk page). From my observation, it is borne out of a long held grudge over a statement "...American h**ks..." made by me in 2017, not being handled as they would've desired and a resulting complex from it. I am here to formally request, that User:Dennis Bratland no longer comments on my talk page without invitation, unless it concerns content-related matters such as mutual work on an article page or formal summons/notices.

I have no reason otherwise to address them and leave him to his own devices (positive or negative), so I suggest he does the same and only discuss project related matters. I left a TW warning on his page, because I am tired of being Wikihounded by the user in question, when I already requested they do not comment on my page anymore. I did not summon his input, because I don't care for unnecessary strife with him. The using of my talk page to posture for an attempt to goad me into leaving Wikipedia or others to do that legwork for him, is a form of unwelcome stalking and baiting me into an argument. Any issues I have nowadays with content, I limit to article talk pages, my own page, or edit summaries and if possible, @ the user in question. Outside of TWs, I respect others' talk pages and do not chime in. If this is deemed not worthwhile as a request, fair enough. I am just taking mediation action so I don't have to get my hands any dirtier and endlessly edit my talk page.--Carmaker1 (talk) 20:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need to open an Incident report here to secure that request. It's your talk page, so if you say they're out, they're out. El_C 20:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your prompt response, but I have said that a number of times and nothing seems to happen, so I'm rather lost on what to do in that respect. He gets a kick out of leaving snarky comments on my page and antagonizing/baiting me in the process, knowing I won't report it. I am not asking for punishment of Bratland (it's not≠ warranted), but just a decision to be made via a more public forum. If you all want to close this that's fine.--Carmaker1 (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the broader "hounding" issue, I'm no admirer of Dennis Bratland, of whom my sole previous experience was this bizarre episode when I dared to close an AfD in a way with which he disagreed, but as far as I can see he's only made six comments on your talk in his entire history, only two of which were this year. Unless there's more going on elsewhere, I really can't see enough there to be construed as any kind of harassment or hounding. ‑ Iridescent 20:57, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've made the request before to no longer comment on my page, as it would only spell unwelcome strife. He does so regardless. My request to "not comment" mostly originated from a previous AN/I discussion full of contentious statements by him (in addit. to clamoring for my dismissal) and what amounted to trying bait me on my talk page when that didn't succeed. Carmaker1 (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"[C]reepy spanking porn!" El_C 21:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I assume a reference to File:Suspension-bb-lorelei-9016-jonwoods.jpg, which is one of the random images that cycle at the top of my talkpage. (That photo amuses me owing to the models' striking resemblance to Jimmy Wales and Lila Tretikoff.) ‑ Iridescent 21:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! El_C 21:10, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ain't this tied up in a current Arbcom request case? GoodDay (talk) 21:01, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, this is because of a recent post he made to my talk page in the midst of that, instead of keeping any grievances to that ArbCom. It's just rather convenient for him to also be involved in that ArbCom too (which is fine), but yet disrespecting my request to not comment on my page. Considering the content, it is baiting. If I am an issue in any respect, a simple be respectful/civil wouldn't gather any outrage and would be genuinely constructive. His intent isn't to be that, but bait and dress down on as a personal attack.Carmaker1 (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, Carmaker1, I expect now they know, so that will settle that. Also, you were supposed to inform Dennis Bratland of this discussion about him. I have done that for you. El_C 21:13, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very sorry about that, how forgetful of me. I figured I had forgotten to do that (using smartphone tablet).
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Sir Joseph interaction ban violation

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Sir Joseph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sir Joseph is currently under a one-way IBAN on me. That follows this thread at ANI. Following a series of edits I made to WP:GS Sir Joseph decided to object to my actions by asking another administrator about the propriety of having the change discussed at AN over GS (diff). While I do not mind criticism or feedback on any of my actions, the IBAN was meant to prevent Sir Joseph from commenting negatively on everything I do simply because he doesn't like me. WP:IBAN prohibits him from mak[ing] reference to or comment on each other anywhere on Wikipedia, directly or indirectly, and given Sir Joseph's history on Wikipedia, I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
In my opinion, objecting to an edit I have made by asking someone else about it is a violation of his IBAN as he is still trying to object to something that I have done. I'm not really sure what the best way to deal with this is, but Sir Joseph should know that if there is an issue with one of my actions he shouldn't be the one raising it. There are thousands of other active editors on Wikipedia and if I am acting outside of consensus or inappropriately, they should be the ones to raise it, not him. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:18, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree. Circumventing the IBAN via editing by proxy would still count as a violation. But I would also be good with just a strong warning to that effect, rather than sanctions outright. El_C 04:24, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would be fine with that. I'm not trying to get him sanctioned here. I just don't want someone who is going to find fault with anything I do to find ways to circumvent the intent of the IBAN, and I think it's important that someone else send that message. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to oblige, Tony. El_C 04:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
El C, firstly, I was using the reply-to template so I was going to just reply to. I was going to reply to Vanamode or to you, my issue was that the edits were being done to the article but being discussed at AN and not at the article. Secondly, (and I was thinking of having a thread somewhere about IBANS about this) this is why I object to the IBAN in general especially against an admin, an oversighter, a checkuser and a functionary. It is ludicrous to have an IBAN against an authority figure, just like in the real world where a Congressman/Rep/President can't block a person.
In any event, I didn't mean to violate the IBAN I was just replying to the thread and noting by objection that the change should have been discussed there. Sir Joseph(talk) 04:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I realize there is a power imbalance, but both of you are first and foremost two editors. Since the IBAN exists, just try your best to adhere to it, armed with the knowledge that any further violations will result in sanctions. Thank you. El_C 04:43, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
El C, you're basically saying that I am now being left out of any conversation that might be important to Wikipedia. That doesn't seem fair. And parts of this is of course hogwash, but I've been here before so I'll just forget about this and call it a night. Sir Joseph(talk) 04:50, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying has to do with Tony's edits, specifically. El_C 04:51, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
El C, OK, then clarify how am I supposed to object to modifying the GS page without discussing it at the GS talk page and only discussing it at the AN page? Because that is what I did and yet that was ruled a violation. So how am I supposed to participate in conversations about Wikipedia policy? And if you want, we can take this to my talk page, and close this because I don't need this open more than it needs to be.Sir Joseph(talk) 04:56, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sir Joseph, again, you must refarin from addressing Tony's edits (addressed through whichever means). I also note that, unrelated to this incident, you have a habit of skirting your bans. In one instance, I, myself, warned you about such an infraction, but was forced to block when that failed to produce its intended results, anyway. The point is that you have pretty much reached the point where warnings, in general, would no longer be viewed as viable. El_C 05:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fully aware of the awkwardness that Sir Joseph can't reply to me here I'll add this while still trying to be fair to him: his comment here shows what the problem is. He was looking for a way to object to my edit without being in technical violation of his IBAN, which shows a degree of good faith while missing the bigger picture. If you have to think about ways to make an edit criticizing someone else's actions that aren't a violation of your IBAN with them, then odds are you shouldn't be criticizing it. Yes, he was actively trying to not violate the technical terms of the IBAN, but still be able to do the conduct it prohibited. That's the problem.
    The reason I brought this to ANI was because I knew we'd get a wikilawyer response and that he'd need to be told in no uncertain terms not to interact with me. He is not somehow special. He doesn't get a special exemption from his IBAN because I'm a sysop and functionary who is involved in policy areas. He's allowed to vote in RfCs and the like, even if I have commented. What he cannot do is to object to specific actions of mine. As I said, there are thousands of other editors. If he's the only one who sees the issue, it likely isn't an issue. TonyBallioni (talk) 05:00, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, now that's been clarified for Sir Joseph, I suggest El_C implement the warning—unless SJ wants to wikilawyer some more, in which a block will probably be necessary. ——SN54129 08:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Serial Number 54129, the warning is in effect. Sir Joseph's participation in this discussion saves me the trip. El_C 08:52, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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User Flyer22 Frozen

We are not going to sanction someone for following Wikipedia's rules, and the underlying content dispute isn't a matter for ANI. ‑ Iridescent 16:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

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I briefly was a Wikipedia editor, editing from IP address 143.176.30.65. As my contributions show, I started editing last February, and increased my contributions last week. One of my edits was an edit request at Talk:Sex#Suggestion Hatnote Change. After my edit request was denied by User:Deacon Vorbis, I made another edit suggestion that was replied to by User:Flyer22 Frozen. Her reaction to my posts there were hostile. I then noticed she had reverted another - earlier, before we talked - edit of mine, at redirection page Having sex, with an edit summary that once again displayed her hostile stance. I decided that being a Wikipedia editor is not for me, given Wikipedia's apparent unpleasant, toxic environment. In a contribution on her Talk page, I notified her of my decision to stop editing Wikipedia because of her behavior. I now see she has undone my edit. This really adds insult to injury. And her undoing of my edit may even go against WP:TPO given that none of the exceptions apply to the basic rule to not edit or delete others' posts without their permission. She's now hiding my - a (former) newcomer editor - negative opinion of her. She claims in her edit summary that I did not quit editing because of her, but I most certainly did. In an "additional comment" edit summary she claims I "give [myself] away" because I would know more about her than I could if I didn't already know her from past conflicts. She's wrong. Her unpleasant attitude made me start reading her old and current User and Talk page edits, and it became clear quite quickly that she's had more than a handful of conflicts with other editors on Wikipedia. I had never heard of User:Flyer22 Frozen before I started editing. She first contacted me on Talk:Sex. You can run a sockpuppet investigation (or whatever else) on my IP address 143.176.30.65 if you want. I want the record to show that I did not give this editor permission to undo my edit on her Talk page. --143.176.30.65 (talk) 15:56, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

She does not need permission to remove comments from her talk page. Refer WP:OWNTALK: Although archiving is preferred, users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This complaint is spurious. The IP left a bitter, hostile message on Flyer22 Frozen's talk page, which she quite properly removed. End of story. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:09, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify that in certain circumstances, You can run a sockpuppet investigation (or whatever else) on my IP address = "I am sock"; this is one of those circumstances. ——SN54129 16:14, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Disruptive renaming of several pages

Hayq11 (talk · contribs) shows a highly disruptive behavior by renaming several pages of medieval Armenian authors, including Mesrop Mashtots and many others from their widely-accepted English names (e.g. Mesrop Mashtots) to ones with diacritics (e.g. Mesrop Maštocʻ) used in academic literature without any discussion whatsoever. Please revert his arbitrary moving of pages. ----Երևանցի talk 09:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done--Ymblanter (talk) 11:54, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Death threat by IP

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Could an admin take a look at this please? I've reverted it but I believe further action is needed. Thanks. Jusdafax (talk) 08:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for one week and revdeleted. El_C 08:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Much obliged. Jusdafax (talk) 08:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Jusdafax, next time, contact WP:EMERGENCY, as they have the means to see where the IP is located, and to contact police if necessary. I dream of horses(talk) (contribs)Remember to {{ping}} me after replying off my talk page 09:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. Been a while. Jusdafax (talk) 13:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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ForzaItalia2020

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User:ForzaItalia2020 is a very, very obvious sock of Sprayitchyo, per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sprayitchyo. They are being a pest on my talk page, and I would appreciate some help. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 22:38, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked. Sro23 (talk) 22:50, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Grayfell (talk) 22:51, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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User with no contributions to mainspace

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Florin747 joined Wikipedia in 2017 after apparently some time as an IP editor. Since then, he has edited his user page, user talk, sandbox, and reference desks. He is apparently a university student and posts a lot of "ideas" or "homework questions" and doesn't seem to constructively answer others' questions on said reference desks. He has never made an edit to mainspace, or really anything outside the spaces mentioned. His English literacy (as a Romanian) is idiosyncratic. I believe he is not here to build an encyclopedia. Elizium23 (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well no-one else had edited his talk page prior to your notifying him of this discussion. Maybe there should be an attempt at dialogue there first.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:07, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eh. There's a consensus that the refdesk should be part of our encyclopedia project (or, rather, a lack of consensus against), and we have some people that engage there and virtually nowhere else (on the question side and the answer side). As long as we're going to keep it around, that's going to happen, and it doesn't seem any more problematic than any other narrow-focused editor whose activities have little to do with the actual writing of articles. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 15:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If someone uses Wikipedia a lot and registers an account in order to use the refdesk, I'm not sure I see a problem with that. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:33, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's one thing if he's fielding questions and answering them, but it's a bit hinky when they all seem to be homework assignments he's posting for others to work out. Elizium23 (talk) 16:36, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So what? It's okay if we have anonymous users copy-paste off the website for homework (who doesn't :) but registering an account to ask questions is THË BÌG BÃD? --qedk (t c) 17:51, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:VOLUNTARY is in point. Also, if they're taking now, someday they might give back. What's the problem? Narky Blert (talk) 18:07, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's no requirement to answer questions at the refdesk in order to be allowed to ask questions. If people don't want to help with the homework questions, nobody is forcing them. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why would the refdesk exist if you had to answer questions to ask questions Tsla1337 (talk) 10:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While WP:NOTHERE is kind of a broad concept, in general it is only used against editors whose conduct is actually detrimental to Wikipedia in some way -- editors who are not here to build an encyclopedia but instead focused on some other malicious, destructive, or unethical conduct. Asking questions at the Refdesk doesn't seem to fall into the category for me, but I welcome any correction on that front. Michepman (talk) 02:42, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Suneye1

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Suneye1 appears to be having clear competence issues, given he was already blocked for sockpuppetry and has now made a comeback by engaging in violations of numerous policies for the sake of his advocacy, by creating POVFORKs. He has been already warned for this disruption a number of times,[99][100] but he is not learning.

Created 2008 Kandhamal violence and 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal, in violation of WP:POVFORK, by copypasting from Religious violence in Odisha and making sure not to provide credit to the main article[101] in violation of WP:COPYWITHIN.

Has doubled the length of Violence against Christians in India since March 2021, by adding more and more trivial and non-notable incidents to the article.[102]

He believes that reverting such disruptive edits constitutes "vandalism",[103][104] contrary to WP:VANDNOT.

I am not sure if this user deserves anything but a WP:CIR block at this stage for this disruption and use of Wikipedia for WP:ADVOCACY. Srijanx22 (talk) 12:21, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First the user is making personal attacks against me WP:NPA by using the sock-puppetry case which was months back when i was very new to Wikipedia and a personal attack by another user.
  1. The 2008 Kandhamal violence is a WP:SIZESPLIT from Religious violence in Odisha because it exceeded 50kb, see [106] and i did a bold move as per WP:PROSPLIT and gave attributions to both pages, see [107], [108]. The article 2008 Kandhamal violence was not "created" and it already was a redirect to the section.
  2. The 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal has nothing to do with POVFORK as i created that article from the start just days before (on 14 April 2020) from scratch, see[109] and mentioned about it in a paragraph in the article Religious violence in Odisha#2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal
  3. The user just reverted a lot of content in the article in Violence against Christians in India without any discussion. SUN EYE 1 13:32, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is not an WP:NPA to highlight your recent history of sockpuppetry, especially when it concerned the same articles which you are currently disrupting. But falsely accusing others of WP:NPA is itself violation of WP:NPA.
You are not allowed to create WP:POVFORKs. WP:SIZESPLIT does not apply on those articles which are relatively below 75k bytes and largely depend on the subjects which you are forking out.
"The 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal has nothing to do with POVFORK" is misleading and contrary to the evidence since the main Religious violence in Odisha mentioned "In December 2007, Christians had installed a Christmas arch across the road in the town of Brahmanigaon, Kandhamal district", and other editor who observed that you copied content from that article for creating this POVFORK.
If all you are doing is adding non-notable and trivial incidents then the WP:BURDEN is on you to prove why your problematic content should be retained.
Fact that you see no problem with your disruptive editing and you are either trying to evade concerns or misrepresenting the evidence is terrifying. Srijanx22 (talk) 13:42, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The WP:SIZESPLIT says "May need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size)" in the 50kb section. The article was more than 50kb when i did the split and it is more than 60kb before you reverted it. You can perform a bold move as per WP:PROSPLIT.
There is a difference between the 2 sections, this is the section that i created after creating the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal on 14th April 2020 while this is the section you are now mentioning. I accidentally created the second section without seeing the first. The warning is for copyright violationWP:COPYVIO from the "2008 khandamal Violence" section before i split the section into two, see [110] (17 April) and the time i got the report [111] (16 April). Both the sections are still there right now so that is not a WP:SPLIT as what you mentioned before. That was the one of the incident during the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal and i have cited the sources for it. SUN EYE 1 14:24, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are still yet to tell why you are creating these articles. WP:POVFORK cannot be justified by WP:SIZESPLIT when the original article loses most of its content to your POVforking and you are not even willing to get consensus priorhand.
You have frequently denied the "2007" article being related to main Religious violence in Odisha when other editor also observed that you copied from the main article. This strikes me as clear deception from you and your lack of AGF leaves no room to think that you are here for any constructive editing. Srijanx22 (talk) 14:47, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reason why Suneye1 has been creating POVFORKs is because he wants to expand Template:Violence against Christians in India (which he created 2 days ago). I had warned him of these problems 5 months ago, but I don't see any improvement so far. Suneye1 does not understand what constitutes vandalism as observed months ago as well. I would support at least a topic ban from Christianity-related subjects mostly because this editor has developed a recurring pattern of problematic editing. Aman Kumar Goel(Talk) 15:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Srijanx22:When i created the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal, i did not see the "December 2007" section in the article and that's why i created the "2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal" section. And how can you say that the article was copy pasted from the Religious violence in Odisha. If you have problems with the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal, you are free to start a deletion discussion there citing POVFORK or COPYVIO. You just redirected the entire article of more than 64kb 2008 Kandhamal violence with out having a proper discussion with me or in the talk page. You did the same thing for Violence against Christians in India without any discussion and you are teaching me about AGF. - SUN EYE 1 15:14, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Aman.kumar.goel: How do you know that i want to expand the Template:Violence against Christians in India created on 17th April with the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal created on (14 april) and the 2008 Kandhamal violence splitted on 13 April. I was just creating articles of notable incidents and you are free to take it to a deletion discussion citing your reasons. Your warning is when i was a newbie and for a completely different article and how is that related to the "POVFORK" incident here? SUN EYE 1 15:24, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are clearly deceiving here because you got the idea of creating 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal after you saw Religious violence in Odisha#December 2007 and other editor also observed that you copied content from that article. There is nothing wrong with redirecting POVFORKs, given you never had a consensus to create them in first place. Per WP:BRD, onus is on you to prove that why your POVFORK is needed but all you can do is allege others of vandalism. I stand by my initial observation that you have apparent WP:CIR issues, especially when you don't want to hear anything that goes against your POV. Srijanx22 (talk) 15:26, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you see what i wrote before i said that, i did not see the Religious violence in Odisha#December 2007 before creating the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal article. I have already said that the content i copied was from the "2008 Khandamal Violence section" before splitting it. There is a difference between the 2 sections, this is the section that i created after creating the 2007 Christmas violence in Kandhamal on 14th April 2020. I accidentally created the second section without seeing the first. The warning is for copyright violationWP:COPYVIO from the "2008 khandamal Violence" section before i split the section into two, see [112] (17 April) and the time i got the report [113] (16 April). Please prove that i copied the content from the exactly the section to create the article. Again if you have problem with the articles you can take it to a deletion discussion. I can start a split request for the 2008 Kandhamal violence in the Religious violence in Odisha article and get consensus. SUN EYE 1 15:40, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Expanding articles, expanding templates, creating new articles etc. are the normal activities of Wikipedia. The filer is barking up the wrong tree here. If he thinks there is a problem with these articles, it is a content dispute and should be taken up on the respective talk pages, AfD's etc., not here. What does belong here are his repeated personal attacks citing Suneye1's block history. Suneye1 has served his block, and that is history. Unless he repeats the same conduct that led to his block, referring to it constitutes a personal attack. Frankly, this whole complaint smacks of a lynching job. It should be dismissed with no action, or perhaps with a warning to the filer. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm seeing a lot of smoke and very little fire here. Suneye may need to be more careful with respect to copying content, and their use of edit-summaries; but there's no sanctionable content that I can see, and the OP's activity may require further scrutiny. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CLARITY

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Hello.

I need clarity on this issue: Do I need to any special requirement to publish an article directly into mainspace (as an autoconfirmed user)?

- My first article - American Scientist Dennis Burton was published through the AfC channle and it was approved.

- My second Article - Indian Actor Bishnu Adhikari was written using Article Wizard, after publishing, I discovered that I could not find the article in a google search. Like when I search google for "Bishnu Adhikari Wikipedia", there were no results.

I am new here, but I love Wikipedia, and writing is my passion. Help me! TheEpistle (talk) 12:38, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

TheEpistle, I'm going to be blunt here - when editors ask about their page being indexed by search engines, it usually is because they're being paid to create the article or are otherwise connected to the article subject. Is that the case here? creffett (talk) 20:59, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello (talk), thank you all for your contributions, but I honestly feel I'm being kicked out of Wikipedia here, but it's fine. I would explain myself all again. I had always been enthusiastic about being a Wikipedia Editor. Recently, after joining, I decided to try out my first page with the Dennis Burton, which I saw on the Requested Articles list! I had no relation to the person whatsoever. After the article was approved from AfC, I was told I could now publish directly into mainspace, and within three hours I enthusiastically google searched my new write up. To my delight, knowing that practice makes perfect, I sought further,I discovered a page titled 2019 Hartford mayoral election, where i found Aaron D. Lewis as one of the candidate, I felt he was't profiled because he was black or because he defected from Democrats, so I decided to try writing, simple! Lastly, I watched an Indian Tollywood film, and I really liked the Lead character Bishnu Adhikari, I began to google search him and saw he had no Wiki page, this motivated me to create one for him since he met the requirement of being a notable person. After creating the page, I wondered why he didn't come up in the google search as fast as Dennis Burton which made me inquire. I hope my explanations are fairly understood. By the way, I called out for Editors to comment on my TALKPAGE with constructive criticism since I'm still getting around, but all these is really bugging my mid seeing deletions and negative comments, but it's all good. Thanks for asking anyway. Hopefully, I'd become expert like you someday. Once again, many thanks. TheEpistle (talk) 22:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Chris.sherlock

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


User:Chris.sherlock is currently going around removing the date of birth from Australian females. They are citing WP:DOB as reason, but this editor is removing regardless of sources. We are guided not to censor Wikipedia. This is focused on Australian women and there appears to be an agenda. A full discussion has not taken place on this issue. This was brought to my attention because a widely known singer Kylie Minogue had her date of birth removed. This information is available at the drop of a simple google search, so I fail to see the benefit of removing the information. [114][115][116][117][118][119][120][121][122][123][124][125][126][127][128][129][130][131][132][133][134][135][136][137]. etc I could carry on.. basically this type of mass editing without consensus is deeply concerning. The user will also then proceed to add a category to the articles, which misleads those patrolling the articles that the editor simply added a category to.Rain the 1 22:53, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 23:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Unsure who that is directed at... - Chris.sherlock (talk) 04:31, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have checked 10 of the links supplied at random. Not one of them has a reliable source for the date of birth. Per Verifiability and BLP these deletion are totally appropriate and even required, and actually should have gone further to remove the year since that is not sourced either. Slp1 (talk) 00:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Slp1, which other ones did you check? Kylie Minogue's DOB was referenced in the body to Hello Magazine]. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


I didn’t check Kylie. I imagine there is a reliable source for her. I checked [[138] [139][140][141][142][143][144][145][146][147][148]Slp1 (talk) 00:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have worked at Toni Collette and I was surprised when the named user deleted her full date of birth but left the year. I queried the removals at its talkpage. The user only addressed one of the sources for her d.o.b. and claimed it was unreliable. I disputed that claim and asked for more details. I provided other refs (three were already in the article) for her d.o.b. and asked whether they were reliable enough. The user has not replied and so I returned the full d.o.b. pending a directive from this ANI (or from WP:BLP). I think, in this case, the user was in error.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also provided 6 additional sources for Kylie Minogue. Ada Nicodemou was also sourced too. God knows who else. These people live their lives in the public eye, their DOB is out there. Just stop the mass removal of content. Their reason for removal is BLP privacy concerns over the subject's DOB. The user has been at it for a while too, sounds like a can of worms.Rainthe 1 00:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Another example - Delta Goodrem's DOB was removed here [149] and then they did the category addition to hide the fact. An editing pattern seen over a 1000+ edits! This editor is playing games, I cannot assume good faith now. Goodrem's DOB is documented online [150][151][152][153].Rainthe 1 01:04, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You need to assume good faith a bit more. In fact I was indeed adding the categories to our Australian female articles, I noticed these violated WP:DOB. If I had wanted to hide from scrutiny I would have done the edits in one go, as it was I made seperate edits and noted what I was doing. I was never trying to avoid scrutiny.
I’m also not sure I consider Hello Magazine a reliable source, but regardless I’m not sure why you want to violate the privacy of the article subjects. Given it’s a BLP violation to do so, I’m well within my rights to make the changes. When people have reverted me I reverted back and added a note on the talk page. I think you need to calm down and read up on our policies around Biographies of Living People. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 01:51, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry. Thank you for explaining and I can see that you were doing what you thought was best. I understand now and perhaps should have discussed that with you rather than presuming the worst. I just think we should be working to verify rather than mass removal. I get that it is not your sole responsibility to verify, and can just remove the information, but my concern was the scale it was happening. I probably would not have complained had your edit summaries pointed out the majority are not sourced. Like Slp1 has now demonstrated, many are not sourced which is another issue. You have stated you do not like DOBs because they invade the subject's privacy. If you removed them because they were unsourced then that is okay.Rain the 1 11:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is an excellent example, thanks for bringing it up. There is no reliable source supporting Delta Goodrem's date of birth in the lede, but maybe there is one in the text? Unfortunately, no. The reference supposedly supporting her date of birth in the text [154] does not mention her birthdate at all. Per BLP all unsourced information such as this must be deleted. Please see WP:BLPREMOVE. If you wish to restore it, that is fine. But it is the restoring editors job to verify these facts by finding reliable sources for the information. Being able to find some "online" is not enough. For example, the first reference [155] seems like a reliable source, but it attributes the facts to "New Idea", whatever that is. The second is Who.com.au. [156] Is that a reliable source, with a reputation for fact cheching? The third, the Dalby Herald,[157] is a repetition of the first reference. The fourth does not mention Ms. Goodrem at all.[158]. It is important that you understand WP's rules about BLPs and Verifiability before accusing others of inappropriate editing in such a strong fashion. Slp1 (talk) 01:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
New Idea is a tabloid gossip magazine. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 01:58, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. I mistakenly pasted in the incorrect article from The Sydney Morning Herald. I presume I was carelessly copy and pasting the URLs and clicked a suggested article and did not notice. I understand that it may have not been present but it is true.Rain the 1 08:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, I’m being cautious and removing potential BLP violations per WP:DOB. My question for those reading the DOB on living people are - why are they doing this, what does it add to the article and why are they potentially deliberately breaching the privacy of the article subject? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 01:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DOB applies to those who are borderline notable, or those who have made a complaint to Wikipedia about their full date of birth being shown. Either of those apply to Kylie Minogue? P-K3 (talk) 01:51, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where have they shown they are fine with their DOB being made public? But regardless, why is this not being discussed on the talk page? And what reliable source is being used? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 01:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nowhere in the policy does it say we need a public figure’s permission to publish their date of birth. WP:DOB was intended for those who while notable enough for a Wikipedia article may not be widely known and who may not wish such information to be published. It was not intended for internationally famous pop stars whose dates of birth are already widely known. P-K3 (talk) 02:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, WP:DOB comes pretty close to saying that. Better read it again. EEng 02:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DOB states that "Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public". The point here is verifiability using (multiple) reliable sources... and these were singularly absent in all of the deletions that I checked above.Slp1 (talk) 02:32, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Slp1 is correct that policy requires excellent sourcing for date of birth information. They listed 10 articles they checked. Here's my check of those articles.
Examination of 10 links by Slp1
Overall those removals seem good though the ease with which I found a source present in the article for Kylie does make me question how much care was taken before removing the information. But upholding BLP is important and it seems, on the whole, that is what was being done here. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I expect no less in thoroughness from Slp1; glad she is back on the job! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Same here. The Leah Purcel article gives her age, not birthday. Regardless, I don’t see why we would need to include this in the article. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 04:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an edit at Davida Allen that blatantly disregarded a good source. Further, WP:DOB provides a scope for its application, it does not mandate the removal of DoBs in general. As others have noted, Chris.sherlock has also been inconsistent by leaving the YoB and its category unchanged. I don't know what to make of their focus on Australian females. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Any inconsistency is probably an error. It’s very simple why I went through “Australian females”, I have been going through our category list. Why do you feel Davida Allen’s DOB needs to be recorded? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 05:31, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where did I leave the category unchanged? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 05:32, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. that’s very interesting the Australian Federal Government breaks it’s own privacy principles! - Chris.sherlock (talk) 05:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P.P.S. It’s also not inconsistent to leave the year of birth. That’s the policy. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 05:39, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As Iridescent pointed out at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Kylie_Minogue, Kylie's date of birth is in multiple reliable sources: (Billboard, BBC News, Newsweek, Metro, the joint exhibition run by the Manchester Art Gallery and the Melbourne Arts Centre, The Telegraph, and of course Kylie Minogue herself, and that's just from the first page of Google results on Kylie Minogue birthday). While I'm not an expert on Australian privacy law, the toothpaste is well and truly out of the tube on Kylie's date of birth and no great harm is being done by giving it on Wikipedia.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Interestingly, none of those were the sources used. A tabloid magazine was what was chosen. When it comes to BLP, if a reliable source is not given - and I honestly feel uncomfortable with even giving the exact DOB of any living person on Wikipedia but will bow to consensus if the person is famous enough - then it’s pretty clear the information must be removed till one is given. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 07:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is a third option: see if a reliable source can be found to verify and source the information. Best, Barkeep49 (talk)
: Barkeep49, I don't think we should erect barriers to removal of badly sourced information from a WP:BLP. If other editors want to include the date and can find a reliable source there's nothing stopping them, but anyone who sees tabloid-sourced content in any BLP should feel entirely free to remove it. Guy(help!) 17:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Guy, overall I agree with you which is why after looking through a whole bunch of work by Slp1 I confirmed that Chris was acting with-in policy. However there are exceptions - if someone is famous enough, at say a Kylie Minogue level of fame or greater, I think the level of effort to find a RS is minimal. So my comment was less a critique of Chris, who I think we acting with-in policy here - I understand why some found the mass removal disruptive but I think was backed by policy - and more a comment that in general there are three options not two. That third option does not preclude the removal of the sources in this instance at least but is an option. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Barkeep, one problem with that logic is that it assumes the same level of knowledge among all of us regarding "someone is famous enough, at say a Kylie Minogue level of fame or greater". I will have to go hide under a rock after admitting this, but I don't even know how to turn on my TV, don't listen to the radio, get all my news from the internet, and ... here it comes ... had never heard of Kylie Minogue before this discussion. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SandyGeorgia, wow! That's actually quite impressive. I know who Minogue is, of course, but there are plenty of celebrities who do not publish birth dates and yet such dates are routinely speculated by tabloids. Regardless, it's solidly on those who want to include a date, to back it with a reliable source, and I remain of the view that there should be no bar to removing badly sourced material from a BLP, even if the first Google hit would fix the problem. BLP doesn't contain an exception for material that someone thinks you ought to be able to source easily. Guy (help!) 17:50, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have to say that I agree that it's very impressive. I pride myself on being a dinosaur when it comes to recent (as in quite a few decades) popular culture, but even I had heard of Kylie Minogue. If it's so easy to source birth dates of such famous people then the response to having them removed is simply to add them back with reliable sources, not to run to a noticeboard. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I once incurred the wrath of all three of my brothers by asking, "Who has ever heard of Taylor Swift, anyway?" :) And that was fairly recent! I do have a friend with several Oscars etcetera, so about once a year, I have to have a teenager come over and make my TV work so I can see his latest award. Anyway, I agree with JzG; I can see myself in the position Chris.sherlock is in, and think we should be able to swiftly remove, leaving the ONUS on those who want to add. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:04, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ummmm ... by the way, Taylor Swift's birthday is sourced to biography.com (not sufficiently reliable for a BLP), in what could be copyvio or could be a mirror. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SandyGeorgia, fixed. BTW, re: same level of knowledge among all of us regarding "someone is famous enough, at say a Kylie Minogue level of fame or greater", I think you're right but I don't think assuming the same level of knowledge among all of us is a problem, because that level of knowledge is: "competence". Editors shouldn't patrol BLPs in areas where they are not competent (I'm not suggesting anyone did that here). That's why I'm not patrolling BLPs of Australian pop stars; I don't know much about Australia or pop stars. But I assume everybody who's editing is doing so within their area of competence (not necessarily expertise, but competence). Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 20:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would have been more helpful if you did not remove a whole bunch of potentially reliable sources and readded an unreliable source as you did here. Perhaps spending more time on better sourcing than use of cute templates on ANI might have resolved this issue quicker. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 20:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Chris.sherlock: I didn't add any source in that diff, unreliable or otherwise. Perhaps spending more time... nah I'm not gonna be childish :-) That was an unnecessary overcite in the lead that I removed. I stand by that edit. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 21:53, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My conclusion is that Slp1 did a great job of showing that most were unsourced. I should have discussed it with Chris.sherlock more first, instead of starting this discussion.Rain the 1 18:43, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And we all lived happily ever after, with a good portion of credit going to the helpful intervention from one of my favorite admins, and an ANI discussion that stayed mostly civil! See, COVID can turn us all into nicer people :) :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2001:470:1F2D:C:0:0:0:6

This ip address has repeatedly restoring same comments on my user's talk which violates WP:3RR and WP:HARASS, please see [161], [162],[163]. I have also left the three warnings on ip address' Talk page to stop harassing me in which ip address still continues to harass me ignoring the warnings. — YoungForever(talk) 00:35, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was just responding to the users continuing responses in regards to their removal of article content. 2001:470:1F2D:C:0:0:0:6 (talk) 00:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also this user has consistently been harassing me about my edits since the beginning of the year and obviously has an axe to grind against IP users. 2001:470:1F2D:C:0:0:0:6 (talk) 00:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your accusations are baseless. — YoungForever(talk) 01:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've blocked the IP user for 48 hours. But, to be clear, they can remove warnings from their talk page. Quit edit warring to restore them.--v/r - TP 01:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@TParis: The IP addresses' Block log says 24 hours and User talk says 48 hours. For the record, I did not restore any of the warnings on the IP address' Talk page. Each warning on the IP address' Talk page was a different level warning as the IP address continued to harass me even after each of the warning. — YoungForever(talk) 01:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see, okay.--v/r - TP 02:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hell on earth with u/HistoryOfIran

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User being reported: HistoryofIran For a long time I've decided to resolve everything peacefully, but seems like this user won't just come in terms with me (and other editors of Wikipedia) It is absolutely impossible to try to improve Armenian, Azeri and Georgian articles. No matter how many **credible** sources you list, both pre-modern, modern and highly respectable, this user would just revise your edits, state 1-2 sources which go against the consensus in the academic field (or which are not about the stated fact, but only mention it), and threaten (!!!) to report you if you dare to challenge his view. You can see this attitude in every single article that his vision was challenged in. I repeat, it is absolutely demoralizing and many Caucasian wikipedia editors I've had a contact with can't just continue their work in peace because of this user.

And you know what's also ridiculous? After he revises your one edit, he would literally STALK your article, revising EVERY edit you do, even if he doesn't know a single thing about what article talks about. See Special:Contributions/24.203.109.74. As you can see, the user found and linnked documents about Hamazkayin, from their own website. Yet for some reason this user revised it and claims it is not RS. This is a user who's somewhat respected in Iranian Wikipedia.

The golden bull of this user's agenda is the page for the Kingdom of Commagene. Open the page in any other language. Take a look at numerous sources. They all clearly state that the kingdom was of Armenian origin. Now, open the english page and take a look at the edit history.

*19:59, 2 April 2020‎ Lori-m. Need source and citation. You deleted sources who said another opinion *21:23, 24 March 2020‎ Aram-van. Specifying that Persian was spoken by the ruling dynasty; nothing in the source talk about the language of the whole kingdom, only mentions that Commagene is a neo-Persian kingdom, in a same vein as other sources mention Commagene as an Armenian kingdom 

His response?

*21:19, 2 April 2020‎ HistoryofIran. Dishonest edit summary, stop this or you will get reported, ty  

The biggest contributing factor, however, was with the page Hetanism. This is what pushed me over the edge. I have spent almost a month, checking many different sources, reading and reading different positions and coming to a consensus, writing a 60k byte long article just for this user to click one button and write "Sources don't say that. The religion is modern". I'm sorry, but if this is what Wikipedia is about, then I don't want to be a part of Wikipedia. His supposed source is an article by James R. Russel, a scholar who is HIGHLY controversial in the armenologist community [164][165].

Please, take a moment to find ANY source except him and 2 other "armenologists" which state that Hetanism, the Armenian native faith, was, in fact, just Zoroastrianism. Hint - you won't find any. The research behind the armenian native faith is 1500 (!!!) years long, starting from Agatangelos in 5th century AD.

I do not know how anyone can endure this. This is absolutely outrageous and has NO place in Wikipedia.

For some other documentation

See Also: Users HistoryofIran and LouisAragon discussing on their talk pages how to vandalize Armenian and Georgian pages:

See Also:Page:Tigranes the Great (edit talk history links watch logs)
HistoryofIran is claiming that Zoroastrianism is the religion of Tigranes the Great, but his references mention religion of Tiridates I only, no mention of supposedly religion of Tigranes the Great whatsoever, as you can see user Biainili stated several times that sources were for another person therefore cannot be used as reference for supposedly religion of Tigranes the Great, after removing the sources with a legitimate explanation:

Kansas Bear immediately reverted his edits, and posted several warnings on his Talk page, then HistoryofIran after ignoring the fact that sources were wrong each time, somehow decided to remove them yesterday:

I ask you to do something. I do not know what to do. Սամուէլ (talk) 07:38, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I too, have been harassed by HistoryofIran almost ever since I've started editing Wikipedia. He deletes names of coutnries/names in languages like Azerbaijani or Turkish from articles that are directly related to the history of Azerbaijan or Turkic people.[169]. He almost always threatens me with reporting me, and lately even insulting me (Talk:Azadistan) every time I try to start a conversation with him. On the talk page of Azadistan, when I asked him politely why he thought Azerbaijani name of the country was irrelevant, he replied:
  • Do you not have anything better to do than try to push the Azeri/Turkish spelling into every article?
After me trying to understand him by asking few questions, he refrained from talking and said that he won't reply anymore. That was, until I told him I invited a third opinion, then he started talking again, which in itself ended in him insulting me by saying:
  • if you can't understand a few simple lines, then perhaps you should begin to question if it's the right choice to edit in the English Wikipedia. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
Well the first thing you should do is read WP:Vandalism and re-write your comment. I read the comment you linked to, and no one is suggesting vandalising any articles. I have no idea if the sources that the editors are proposing to use are good or not, but they are clearly not discussing vandalising anything, and that you claim they are badly discredit's your complain. Also WP:primary sources needs to be treated with care. Especially what an organisation writes about itself. Reliable secondary sources are a far better choice. Nil Einne (talk) 08:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps yes, Vandalism is a bit loud, but I do not know what else to call it - suggesting to edit and remove every mention of religions which have many sources and thousand years of research behind them, just because you read a book by a controversial scholar Սամուէլ (talk) 08:09, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is most definitely not thousands of years of research behind anything. Did you meant person-years? Edit: I see you said "thousand years of research". Even if you just meant "one thousand years" it's still a weird claim to make since the quality of "research" one thousand years ago, was often questionable at best. It's far more significant what modern scholars have found, based on analysing the historical record, including any surviving publishing from such research. In any case, I don't see any suggestion of "removing every mention of religions", they seem to be discussing updating the information in the articles to more accurately represent what is support by the sources. I have no idea if their claims of what is supported by the sources are correct, but that's ultimately what it comes down to. Nil Einne (talk) 08:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I also just noticed you did not notify anyone you talked about in your thread, not even HistoryofIran or LouisAragon. I have notified them and Kansas Bear and 24.203.109.74 for you. In the future, please make your notify editors if you are going to bring them to one of the administrator noticeboards, as the big warnings tell you to. I also noticed that the 24 IP has been twice blocked. I don't know the details, but neither of these blocks were performed by HistoryofIran or LouisAragon so I guess others found problems with their editing. Nil Einne (talk)
  • I'm obviously not an expert here, but I'd like to hear HistoryofIran's explanation for edits like [170] (two reverts) where they removed the Azerbaijani name of the country, in an article about a country that was located in the Azerbaijani Provinces of Iran and has Azerbaijani in its list of languages. Black Kite (talk) 08:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Asperisons, that's all this section is. At least try to be somewhat honest, jeez. First off, Սամուէլ; James Russell [171] is highly reputable scholar, whose work is used in various academic sources. Two lowbie historians disagreeing with him is not gonna change that. You even used Russell as a citation in Hetanism, where the source doesn't make a single mention of Hetanism in his work you listed (which you even didn't list a page on, Ctrl + F is my friend [172]). The same goes for Romery [173] and so on. Սամուէլ is trying to make a rather strange attempt to falsely make Hetanism (a modern neo-pagan) religion appear as the ancient religion of the Armenians, that's like claiming Heathenry as the religion of the Vikings. So much for your credible sources. Now for CuriousGolden; you might want to learn what harrassment means. You've attempted in a revionistic and/or anachronistic style to push Azeri/Turkish names into places where they have no place, hence why you have been warned on your talk pages several times in your short time in Wiki (which you have removed). One good example is the Seljuq Empire, where you tried to add Modern Turkish with the Latin, none of which they used. I already explained you that. Regarding Azadistan, the Azeri language has no relevance (especially not with the Latin alphabet, which has never been used in Iran) as the country was (according to the information) a continuation of the Iranian state. TLDR: These two users tried to pov-push, got stopped by me, now they are crying wolf. Everyone is more than welcome to look at the citations I've posted in whatever article, I can safely say I'm not falsely attributing them, unlike some others. --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have not been warned even once for specifically adding azerbaijani/turkish name into any article. I have been warned because of an edit war with you once and once for meat puppetting. I still find it funny that you try to prove anything by repeatedly talking about my "short time on wikipedia". It doesn't make my arguments any less valid because I have been on Wiki less time than you. I also still like how you claim Azadistan was an Iranian country without providing any proof other than the article saying Khiabani was an Iranian patriot (Iranian was his nationality, he was an Iranian Azerbaijani). Your nationalistic views and POV pushing to glorify Persian involvement in historical states has been nothing, but an annoyance to everyone. Also, maybe you should learn the meaning of "harassment" instead of me, since you don't seem to realise that following someone to every article and reverting their changes without providing source for your claims is harassment.
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
I'm mentioning your short time on Wikipedia to put an emphasis on how much disruption you've caused in such short time. Rest of your childish accusations I'm not even going to answer. --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
HistoryofIran is one of the most prolific editors we have in subjects concerning Iran and Middle Eastern history. He has been contributing vigorously to these subjects for years. On the other hand, we have an editor with barely 84 edits saying that HistoryofIran's work has been "nothing, but an annoyance to everyone.". WP:BOOMERANG may be in order here. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By "everyone", I meant people involved in this report and all the people he has reverted edits of unfairly. I, again see that me having less edits is somehow supposed to make my claims invalid according to your message. You have to understand that someone doesn't automatically become more valid or true in an argument when they have more edits than the other person
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
The desperation to attempt to cause me trouble is real. You're yet to show proof that I'm the big bad villain you're painting me to be. I'm pretty sure casting aspersions and random insults is a blockable offensive. So is falsely attributing sources (Սամուէլ). I think it's best to stay back for now and let KansasBear and LouisAragon come with their piece, as they're much better than me at this little game. This is indeed WP:BOOMERANG, a very big one that is. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No one is trying to paint you as a big bad villain. Someone reported you, I saw it and decided to add my own unfavorable experiences with you. The reporter and I, have presented our case and have listed all the sources in our messages. And thanks for reminding me that using insults are blockable, maybe I'll report the insults you used against me [174] and multiple other users [175] on multiple talk pages.
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)

CuriousGolden, debating over content with a fellow editor for what looks to be a very short time span and then reporting them at ANI with claims that you've been "harassed" and "insulted" (just because their edits don't agree with yours) does come across as WP:ASPERSIONS (and is WP:BOOMERANG-worthy). Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 11:04, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not the one who reported him, I'm just stating my own unfavorable experiences with the user. You clearly don't know why I say I feel harassed and insulted, so please don't claim like you do. Read the actual sources I have provided for my claims. Also, here's some more proof of your fellow user vandalizing Wikipedia pages [176].
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
I have looked at the edits and what you've presented here but don't see any evidence that points to HistoryofIran ever insulting or harassing you. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 11:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"if you can't understand a few simple lines, then perhaps you should begin to question if it's the right choice to edit in the English Wikipedia." this in itself is already an insult and he's harassing me by following me to every article (that is even slightly related to iran) and reverting my changes without providing source for his claims.
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
An experienced editor suggesting a new editor to question their edits is neither an insult or harassment. HistoryofIran may have seen issues with your editing in other articles within his scope of interest and decided to get involved there too; that's no reason to come to ANI and say you've been "insulted" and "harassed". Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 11:47, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not pretend like he said that sentence because he was politely suggesting me to check out other languages I could edit in (I already edit in other languages). He said it because I didn't agree to his POV, which he tried to push, with a clear intention, which I consdider an insult. And I've already explained why I felt harassed in my previous comment. You'r really hanging onto me saying I was insulted or harassed few times and completely ignoring all the other points I've made.
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
CuriousGolden, a content dispute is one thing, but coming to ANI and accusing another editor of "harassment" and "insults" without clear evidence (aside from your own feelings) is WP:ASPERSIONS (and like I said in a previous post, WP:BOOMERANG-worthy). Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 12:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Saying this for the second time now, I am not the original reporter, I came and added to original report with my own unpleasant experiences with the reported user, me saying I felt insulted and harassed, was a nuisance in my addition to the report, hanging onto it won't get you anywhere.
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
You've repeated yourself several times now each and don't appear to be contributing anything of further value. Mr rnddude (talk) 12:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's because I'm not repeating myself to add something of value, but rather because the other party is asking things that I've already answered
Dearly, CuriousGolden (talk)
Can someone do something about the discussion heading - a heading of "hell on earth" isn't helpful and is bordering on an attack itself.Nigel Ish (talk) 14:43, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree, but it seems that others don't. It's a very long thread that needs reading in full to see that there are administrators who don't agree with changing the title of a discussion to be neutral. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This thread boils down to a content dispute, if we ignore the spurious claims of vandalism and the many personal attacks by the originator and supporter. If someone reverts an edit then the next stage is to discuss it on the article's talk page, with reference to whether it is supported by independent reliable sources, and whether we are representing the weight of such reliable sources properly. I know nothing about pre-Christian religion in Armenia, but can see that this issue is not being approached in the proper collegial way. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:24, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Alan Flaherty

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Born 27th of May 1988 From Kilbannon Tuam Co. Galway. Plays football with Kilconly Gaa club. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.146.229 (talkcontribs) 11:32, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And you want an admin to stop him? Or what? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Biainili

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'm reporting User:Biainili for ad hominem behaviour, constant baseless accusations, vandalism, pov-pushing, showing signs of being anti-Iranian, and whatever there is else to add.

Not in chronological order:

"Again, you are the one who cherry picks the sources, not me. Go ahead and report me, I will not let you vandalize Armenian(also Georgian) pages with your Iranian bias."

"No, I won't let you get away with vandalism of Armenian related pages this time, the source, Romeny 2010, is the same source you keep using on every page, and it clearly states that he was an Armenian satrap, no mention of "Persian" or whatsoever, you will be reported immediately if you revert this referenced information again."

Removing Encyclopaedia Iranica source(s).[177], false edit summary, POV editing More POV editing

Misusing sources (that doesn't state what he adds) to push his pov [178] [179] Reverted me as well to add information not stated in the majority of used sources [180]

"Finally this tension is an outcome of falsifications of Armenian Wikipedia pages by notorious u/HistoryofIran."

Constantly edit warring (basically most of his edits) [181] Even didn't come to the talk page in an article where he kept edit warring against several users [182]

Has been harassing user @Kansas Bear: (who reverted his disruptive edits) as well [183] Also attacked him: "Kansas Bear, you can do whatever you want, just stop polluting my Talk page with your idiotic statements, if you keep reverting my edits, at the behest of your Wikipedia friends, you will be reported."

He's seemingly a mind reader as well See the Սամուէլ's comment on HistoryofIran's talk page which he deleted immediately after, because he couldn't come up with an answer:

I suspect that this user is sock, considering he has barely any edits on his belt and is able to write references like this [184][185] [186] It's interesting that he is constantly threatening to report other users to report them for vandalism/disruption/whatever, yet still hasn't done it once. Perhaps he knows of Wikipedia:Boomerang? Not to mention he seems very familiar with the "I will report you" sentence. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:20, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Let us look at the facts:
User:Biainili's first edit, was to remove Zoroastrianism from Tigranes the Great, with the edit summary, "Religion removed, insufficient source. Rather odd for someone that had just started editing to seem to be so well versed in Wikipedia speak, yet their removal was followed up by user:Սամուէլ's removal of the same information.(meat-puppetry?)
User:Biainili's second edit, was to remove Zoroastrianism from Kingdom of Armenia, this time with a personal attack in the edit summary, "Falsification of Armenian history by u/HistoryofIran. Second edit, and already issuing a personal attack against an editor that they have had zero interaction with, or have they(sockpuppet??)?
User:Bianili's personal attacks:
User:Biainili chose instead of taking their concerns to the relevant talk page(s), chose instead to revert some of my work on Catherine of Valois, mocking what they have been told(and had refused to do). restored referenced information, take your concerns to the talk page
User:Biainili, chose not to start any talk page discussion instead showed up after I had started the discussion and made all sorts of weird accusations(with no evidence).
Ignoring, the attempt made by user:Biainili at trying to make this personal(ie. harassment), the fact this editor has been here barely a month and can write references in the complex "harvb" manner, and their unexplained hostility towards an editor they do not even know(??), the personal attacks alone are enough to show me this editor is not here to build an encyclopedia. This User:Biainili is under the oh-so-common misconception that since "they are here to enhance/protect/correct a certain history", other editors are here under the same reasons. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See: My comments on the Talk pages:

How easy to accuse users without any evidence here? Let's see how will administrators react to those(Wikaviani, Kansas Bear, HistoryofIran) who try to get everyone, they disagree with, banned with false accusations... --Biainili (talk) 17:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest Biainili consider their words carefully. If they imply that Wikaviani's AN3 report was "false accusations", it raises the question of how to interpret the tit-for-tat report Biainili filed shortly after.[191]C.Fred (talk) 20:19, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
C.Fred, with all due respect, but my report had nothing to with what you refer to as "tit-for-tat", since I'm relatively new user here, I accidentally posted it on wrong section/page, that's why I removed it shortly after. --Biainili (talk) 20:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where, if not WP:ANEW, did you mean to post a report about that? —C.Fred (talk) 21:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"User:Biainili chose instead of taking their concerns to the relevant talk page(s), chose instead to revert some of my work on Catherine of Valois, mocking what they have been told(and had refused to do). restored referenced information, take your concerns to the talk page" --Kansas Bear

You reverted my constructive edit on Tigranes the Great page, even though I explained it on Edit Summary why sources were incorrect, and User:HistoryofIran, after denying my statement on several occasions, "Also, do read the four sources again please, because what you're stating is clearly not true.", removed them himself [192] --Biainili (talk) 20:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So you're basically admitting that you stalked and reverted Kansas Bear out of revenge? Also, in the link you can clearly see I removed two citations (out of five, so not all sources as you falsely claim) which I wrongly added, that doesn't change the fact you still claimed (and still is claiming) that none of the citations supported what is stated in the Tigranes the Great article. Your edit is still as disruptive as before. Even if your statement was correct, how does that justify what you did to Kansas Bear?
EDIT: "even though I explained it on Edit Summary why sources were incorrect, and User:HistoryofIran, after denying my statement on several occasions, "Also, do read the four sources again please, because what you're stating is clearly not true.""
Hol up. This is a comment by Սամուէլ which you mention I "denied", not by you. Nice of you to use two accounts to cause disruption, that explains this as well [193] [194] @C.Fred: You might wanna see this. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:52, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • HistoryofIran strikes again with baseless claims, how many times do I need to say? This is my one and only account. --Biainili (talk) 21:10, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible disruptive editing by Pincrete in a MH17 article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Well, the edits of the mentioned editor, in my opinion, resemble disruptive editing at least, since he removes relevant and very well sourced information under far-fetched pretexts [195][196]. For example, at the MH17 talk page he claims that he does not like some of the wording, but at the same time he simply ignores my requests for suggested wording and disregards my and other editors' explanations (WP:DISRUPTSIGNS). Also he refers to the allegedly reached consensus on the article's talk page for deleting all the recently added information in the article, which is not true. Without getting a response from him, I try to guess what wording he needs, but he again rolls back my edits because he did not like the wording again. I kindly ask administrators to view and check the discussion on the MH17 talk page since I believe that the edits made by Pincrete possibly do not comply with the requirements of Wikipedia rules about constructive dispute resolutions.--Александр Мотин (talk) 18:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first material I removed was so poorly phrased as to be virtually incomprehensible. It was WP:SYNTH of a primary source which did not remotely support the text inserted by Александр Мотин, and I had given my reasons on talk some time before removing the text, and thus opportunity for him to address both the SYNTH and poor phrasing. My second removal was of a crude rephrasing of the previous text plus some recent additions by Александр Мотин, which quite a number of editors had already objected to. Александр Мотин was effectively edit-warring them back in with no attempt to establish agreement on talk or seemingly much understanding of why I and others objected. I have of course never said I don't like the wording, I have variously said I had no idea what it meant and/or that it bore no relationship to what the source said and/or was blatant COPYVIO iro another addition. which I did not remove. Diffs of my initial attempts on talk to explain why the insertions were not acceptable here and about 13 hours later here. The second includes Александр Мотин's reply to my first post.
I will address any concerns but believe this is a frivolous complaint by an editor who lacks the basic competence to be editing such a contentious article. Pincrete (talk) 20:43, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A massive 54 of the 68 edits made on this artice in the last 62 hours have been made by Александр Мотин many of the 14 edits made by 8 other edits have been removals of his material or attempts to keep up with his changes. He is attempting massive reorganisation of a contested article without getting agreement or - seemingly - having the linguistic or editing competence to do eo. Also the last nearly 200 edits made by him have been to this one article in the same period - which he is not a regular editor of and which have been attempts to very substantially alter the structure of the article. Pincrete (talk) 23:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the assistance of administrators is strongly required. --Александр Мотин (talk) 23:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Александр Мотин is basically trying to edit war disputed content into the article [197]. The burden is on him to get consensus for inclusion before restoring it. But since the article has been quiet for a long time, and discretionary sanctions are in effect, everyone active on the Article and Talk Page should probably be templated with DS notices in case anything arises there that needs a trip to AE. Geogene (talk) 01:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrator noteАлександр Мотин, please observe WP:ONUS, especially the part that reads: the onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is upon those seeking to include disputed content.El_C 02:03, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: Correct. But how to achieve consensus if the opposing editor ignores any attempts to find this consensus and just deleting the whole text fragment because he doesn't like a couple of words in it. Is this constructive? --Александр Мотин (talk) 02:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Александр Мотин, consensus is achieved by article talk page discussion, not edit warring. If that discussion reaches an impasse, there are dispute resolution requests that can bring further outside input to the dispute. El_C 02:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: I totally agree again. But look at this as well. It seems that a group of opposing editors are mostly focused only on my edits but not on improving the article. Am I right? --Александр Мотин (talk) 02:35, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Александр Мотин, no, that is an aspersion on the good faith conduct of your opponents. Please resolve this dispute in the usual way, by following the steps outlined at WP:DR. El_C 02:39, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Regarding User:Horse Eye Jack

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A number of issues historically with Horse Eye Jack's editing:

  • Unsubstantiated Accusations WP:PA
  • Not WP:AGF or issuing downright inappropriate warnings, particularly in the area of WP:BITE
  • Edit warring (reverting twice a million times on a million pages, while technically not in violation of TRR is still edit warring)
  • Removing sources
  • Vandalism
  • Non-collegial actions and behaviors WP:NOTHERE
  • Personal attacks


Here's a timeline of these: DD/MM/YYYY (days elapsed since last warning/days elapsed since last warning regarding particular area of concern)
Dec 2019 (N-A): Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings
15 Jan 2020 (30/N-A): Vandalism (edit warring) hereand here
24 Jan 2020 (9/9): Edit warring/accusations of edit warring here,here,and here
25 Jan 2020 (10/N-A): Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings here
26 Jan 2020 (1/N-A): Edit warring once, twice, thrice, four times, five times, six times, seven times, eight times, nine times (split into two reverting sprees but warned after the first one)
4 Feb 2020 (9/19): Vandalism/Blanking sources as introduced here
5 Feb 2020 (1/10): AIV: Edit warring here
10 Feb 2020 (5/15): Personal attacks/Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings here
20 Feb 2020 (10/16): Vandalism [see 26 Jan entry, this was the second reverting spree]
1 Mar 2020 (9/24): Edit warring/Reverting appropriate edits as discussed here
2 Mar 2020 (1/20): Non-collegial actions/Personal attacks WP:NOTHEREas discussed here
13 Mar 2020 (11/21): Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings this, but refers to this
15 Mar 2020 (2/N-A): Failing to abide by WP:NPOVmisunderstanding of NPOV policy ,including mass purge and personal attacks as discussed
18 Mar 2020 (3/5): Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings/NPOL v. GNG vs GNG here
2 Apr 2020 (15/15): Personal attacks/Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings/Unsubstantiated accusations [case misconstrued]
2 Apr 2020 (0/N-A): WP:TPG violation asked here; and here, violated hereand here.
16 Apr 2020 (14/46): Edit warring but resolved as no offense
17 Apr 2020 (1/15): Not WP:AGF/issuing inappropriate and uncalled-for warnings here
20 Apr 2020 (3/3): Warning someone for "general discussion on a topic" when they were discussing moving said page


Unsubstantiated Accusations (1 instance)

  • 2 Apr 2020

Not WP:AGF or issuing downright inappropriate warnings, particularly in the area of WP:BITE (7 instances)

  • Dec 2019
  • 25 Jan 2020
  • 10 Feb 2020
  • 13 Mar 2020
  • 18 Mar 2020
  • 17 Apr 2020
  • 20 Apr 2020

Edit warring (5 instances)

  • 24 Jan 2020
  • 26 Jan 2020
  • 5 Feb 2020
  • 1 Mar 2020
  • 16 Apr 2020

Removing sources/Vandalism (3 instances)

  • 15 Jan 2020
  • 4 Feb 2020
  • 20 Feb 2020

Non-collegial actions and behaviors WP:NOTHERE (1 instance)

  • 2 Mar 2020

Personal attacks (3 instances [numerous others not included due to deviations from official meaning])

  • 10 Feb 2020
  • 2 Mar 2020
  • 2 Apr 2020


Horse Eye Jack has been repeating the same offense two weeks after each successive warning and violating WP policies anywhere from multiple times a day to once a week. Indeed, the longest he's gone without a warning of some type was 30 days. I issued more or less this warning on his page but he didn't act like he was going to change his behavior. He also has a strange habit of pulling irrelevant sections of the rulebook, especially when he called my warning up there a "violation of WP:NPA". Augend (talk) 19:13, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I reverted this user on the 16th [198] which began immediate abuse “your own racism is not an acceptable reason to undo edits designed to neutralize pages.” [199] and its escalated from there. They already tried taking me to the edit warring noticeboard and that didn’t work out for them so here we are now. I’ve clicked through the diffs and not a single one appears to show what its purported to show. I propose a strong WP:BOOMERANG. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 19:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • They completely lost me at WP:NOTHERE,if anything the most I read here is a content dispute. I don't see anything egregious that would warrant sanctions. Edit warring is a two way street, stop, discuss it on the talkpage. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 19:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The comment issued by the person specifically said "At the very least, it suggests that you are not at the project to be a collegial editor" based on HEJ's actions. Augend (drop a line) 21:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thats the weird thing... Its already under discussion, has been since the 17th see Talk:Taiwan#Discussing neutrality. The last revert wasn’t even me it was made by an admin [200], I didn’t edit war it off the page and there is currently no ongoing edit war. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 19:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quite a few of the links just simply don't work so it's hard to know exactly what the complaint really is. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 19:48, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The weirdest one is the diff from Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism [201] which does not involve me in any way whatsoever. The only link I see is that the diff involves user CaradhrasAiguo who’s talk page Augend randomly put a post about me on. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 19:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I will not speak for Augend, but that link you mention is part of the context of this thread that we resolved in a reasonable manner, where we agreed you mis-interpreted my edit summaries on that user I reported. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 20:02, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a quick note to you both since you're both here. (I wrote a very long comment in reply to that thread after seeing it when looking into it below, but decided not to post it.) If someone asks you to stay away from their talk page, this should generally be respected per WP:NOBAN. Essential notices like noticeboard ones are an obvious except, but warnings generally aren't. There's no need to negotiate anything or set preconditions for obeying such a request, but I also suggest you don't make a request lightly since it can make things more difficult for everyone including you. Nil Einne (talk) 20:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thats a relief, I’m not sure what my talk page will do without its number one fan [202] though. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I had a quick look at some of the diffs, and you seem to have made a mistake with some of them or maybe you should use proper diffs. For example for "17 Apr 2020" you linked to User talk:Horse Eye Jack/Archives/2020/July#Reaction. But when I go there I see this [203] which is nothing like you describe, and does not suggest any fault on the part of Horse Eye Jack. For 2 Apr 2020 you linked to [204] in the context of non compliance with the TPG. But it makes no sense in general or in relation to your earlier link. If you intended to link to [205] that makes no sense either since your examples for violations of this request pre-date that request. To be fair, the discussion that followed suggests a problem, but it seems likely it could be resolved simply by explaining to Horse Eye Jack that they should follow the request, which it's not clear to me anyone has done. I'd also note that a warning is often an accusations of wrong behaviour. If an editor accuses someone of misbehaviour when they haven't done so, it is a personal attack. So bring up NPA in response to warnings isn't irrelevant. It may ore may not be justified. Frankly any desire on my part to look at this flew out the window when I saw your silly and unjustified accusation of racism. Nil Einne (talk) 19:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nil Einne: Those two are irrelevant, Horse Eye is pulling a Red herring fallacy to divert your attention and unfortunately it appears that it has done its role. Augend (drop a line) 21:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, some of the "links" don't have diffs at all, some of the links that exist don't actually work, and many of the links that do exist and work don't show what the OP claims they do (NOTHERE? Really?) I think we're done here? Black Kite (talk) 19:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Black Kite: @Bishonen: Review the comment again, while most are diffs and some aren't, some are just links to comments that justify... for instance if you bothered reading the NOTHERE comment the main issue is "At the very least, it suggests that you are not at the project to be a collegial editor" Augend (drop a line) 21:00, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, the OP is hard to follow because of the poor linking, and, as Black Kite says, also because quite a few links that do work don't illustrate the claim made. I agree we're done here. @Augend:, for another time, to make proper diffs and consequently a proper report, please see Wikipedia:Simple diff and link guide. Bishonen &#1:4; tålk 20:06, 20 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]
There seems to be some serious POV pushing here as well. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 20:20, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


While some of the diffs might not work, there are some major ones that stand out: 26 Jan and 20 Feb, a mere month apart, saw two edit warring sprees on the same page, even after a warning @Hell in a Bucket: @Black Kite: @Bishonen: - and there are several AGF issues, after multiple warnings:

  • Dec 2019
  • 25 Jan 2020
  • 10 Feb 2020
  • 13 Mar 2020
  • 18 Mar 2020
  • 17 Apr 2020
  • 20 Apr 2020

These are incidents fully backed up by warnings (on some, I only attached the warnings) and diffs (most of which I provided) - and no matter how screwed up the diffs are, nothing excuses making the same violation seven times in a four month period, and beyond that, nothing excuses edit warring twice on a page in a span of one month. Also, I would strongly advise you not to fall for Red herring fallacy - I don't come clean but that does not detract in any way from the topic at hand. Augend (drop a line) 21:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I had to revert myself because I forgot for a moment why I said you seem to have a problem with a POV, Looking over [[206]] you say that you only want nuetraility but then the nuetral version is the one china policy but no sources to show this is consensus. Very strange. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would recommend closing this time-sinking thread. This is only a content dispute issue. Horse Eye Jack is the best editor in Wikipedia.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 21:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • These comments from Augend and the surrounding discussion may be of interest: [207][208]. Not necessarily COI, but probably worth looking into. Darthkayak (talk) 21:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC) (Non-administrator comment)[reply]
  • Well, I looked at the "26 January edit-warring" and all I saw was an IP changing the nationality of Taiwanese firms to "Chinese" (i.e. vandalism) and HEJ reverting them back to Taiwan. So there's no problem there, unless you believe that Taiwanese companies are Chinese of course, which is intriguing given Hell in a Bucket's comment above. Meanwhile, I looked at February 20, and found nothing at all, but on the 21st February HEJ reported another editor to the edit-warring board. During that conversation, another editor, User:CaradhrasAiguo jumped in to accuse HEJ of various things. Completely coincidentally, you wrote on CaradhrasAiguo's talkpage this morning ... with a notice asking them to weigh in on your ludicrous "CRITICAL AND FINAL WARNING" on HEJ's talkpage. Now, we can end this here, or I suspect it may not go the way you intended. Black Kite (talk) 21:31, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Akoroves/Wikiauthor77's attempts at promotion and personal attacks

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I first encountered User:Akoroves at Korovessis (surname), which I had originally had tagged for deletion given that it is not a surname of anyone with an existing Wikipedia article. After going back in forth with this editor (during which time he called me a Greekaphobe") it became apparent that there are several people with the surname "Korovesis" and quickly realized that he had chosen the "double S" version because it was how a specific person's surname was spelled and that he had created the article to include that person (Alexander Korovessis, who is the publisher of Kasma Science Fiction and the only previous subject Akoroves had significantly edited about) as a notable person (I eventually move the article to Korovesis (surname)). I noticed that Kasma Science Fiction clearly did not meet notability standards and nominated for AfD. Since the article's deletion via AfD, Akoroves tried to add Alexander Korovessis several times (which I have reverted). Additionally a second account, User:Wikiauthor77, has been created and re-created the deleted article at Draft:Kasma SF Magazine and has continued to try to add Alexander Korovessis as well and included a personal attack in his most recent attempt. This is likely an attempt at promotion and a case sock puppetry. I was going to take this to SPI but given this is the second personal attack against me by what is likely the same editor I decided ANI is a better venue. GPL93 (talk) 19:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • The page has been moved from Korovesis (surname) to Korovesis because disambiguation is unnecessary. GPL93 has requested extended confirmed protection at RFPP, because the user Akoroves is autoconfirmed. However, the other users are not, so C.Fred's semi-protection takes care of them. And I think the one autoconfirmed user can be dealt with in other ways, up to and including a block he won’t stop doing it. I will decline the request for extended confirmed and leave it up to this discussion how to deal with the problem user. -- MelanieN (talk) 22:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikiauthor77 is a confirmed sock, and I indefinitely blocked that account. One can only assume that Akorovessis (talk · contribs) is another sock, but that account hasn't edited since 2014. I blocked Akoroves for three days. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Further reading" spam by User:MedievalSam1

The entire contribution history of MedievalSam1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been to add the book Cornwall, Connectivity and Identity to the further reading list of any article remotely related to Cornwall or Cornish history. Said book's author, one SJ Drake, appears to be a scholar of Cornish history of little impact (few citations of his few published works). This would appear to be a clear attempt to drive sales (or at least interest) in this book, which itself appears to have yet received no reviews from any major sources. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I came across this being added to articles on my watchlist. User:Cullen328 beat me to blocking him. Doug Wellertalk 17:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, all this editor has done is to add this book to many Cornwall related articles. Nothing else. So, I blocked the account for spamming/advertising. Cullen328Let's discuss it 17:21, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They were overzealous in adding it to further reading sections, but the book does seem relevant to some of those articles such as culture of Cornwall. The book is published by Boydell & Brewer so very likely to be good quality. They were asked to stop at 18:06 and haven't edited since so I'm not convinced that a block is needed at this stage. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Richard Nevell: I did some checking into the book's author and publisher before posting this thread; I recognize they are a reputable publisher, but the book itself does not appear to be a significant volume, nor does the author appear to be a significant authority. Now, this may have to do with the fact that the material is rather specialized (medieval history of Cornwall), but between the unknown value of the book and the clearly promotional intentions of the editor, I can't recommend restoring the book as a further reading source, but I'll defer to others who may be more knowledgeable of this particular niche topic. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your estimation of significance is based on the fact you couldn't find any reviews, which given the book was only published in November is hardly surprising. A browse of its pages shows that it contains lots of information about Cornish history. I wouldn't rely too strongly on Google Scholar, its coverage of history and archaeology is patchy at best and will not give the full picture. In future can we please look for healthier snacks than the newbies. Perhaps someone who took the time to think where the book was relevant could have been persuaded to add some text, but instead we all seem to be in a rush to see who can show them the door first. Richard Nevell (talk) 18:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It could be an enthusiastic new editor who happens to have picked up the book, or it could be someone sneakily promoting the book. There's no way to know with the available data. Personally, I'd err on the side of AGF and recommend unblock + discuss with the user. creffett (talk) 18:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in life is free from problems, and the same applies at Wikipedia. If someone looks like a promotion-only-account, and adds spam as if they were a promotion-only-account, they should be blocked to avoid wasting other editors time. We see such accounts all the time. Johnuniq (talk) 00:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cullen328, Good block, this is WP:REFSPAM. If he engages on Talk, we can unblock. Guy (help!) 10:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to concur with Creffett: unblock and engage, I think the block is overkill at this point. I agree with Richard's assessment that this book is likely to be of scholarly value, and relevant in at least some of these sections. That said, this is also a poor way for an academic author to go about engaging with Wikipedia; there are a great many people who could make claims of equal merit to add their monograph etc. to a "Further Reading" section here, and we aren't a directory of links. Using it organically as a reference to support unreferenced material in existing articles, or expand them further, benefits both the encyclopedia and the author. Choess (talk) 01:11, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My block was based on Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, specifically the section reached by the shortcut WP:SELFCITE, that says "adding numerous references to work published by yourself and none by other researchers is considered to be a form of spamming." I think the reasonable presumption given the username and the behavior, is that this editor is probably the author. This editor added links to this book to over 40 Cornwall-related articles without adding or improving any content whatsoever. If it had been a handful, I would have left a friendly expression of concern. I consider this overt spamming which is why I blocked but I now see that other editors disagree. So, if any administrator wants to unblock with conditions, I will not object. Cullen328Let's discuss it 03:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If someone is able to unblock MedievalSam1, I am happy to walk them through the editing process and talk to them about conflict of interests. Richard Nevell (talk) 16:46, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The user made 41 edits in 90 minutes, each to add spam. They have not made any other edit since then (17:06, 15 April 2020). Anyone believing they will turn out that around should post on the user's talk explaining what the problem is, and offering whatever help they think appropriate. Ask if they would like to improve any articles, and offer to help them achieve that. With a suitable assurance, an unblock appeal would be successful. Johnuniq (talk) 02:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:104.36.204.205 and lead sections of articles about actors

104.36.204.205 is adding information about the television series Banshee to the leads of literally every single article about actors who have appeared in that series. Per WP:AGF, this may simply be a fan at work, and I do not wish to violate 3RR by reverting this editor (I have reverted twice at Ben Cross, not only because the edits broke formatting but also because there is nothing sourced in the article to suggest that this is a series for which that actor is known). However, this does seem like single-purpose editing and the editor does not seem to be communicating about this despite my talk page messages. I'd appreciate other opinions and/or other sets of eyes on this. --Kinu t/c 04:11, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kinu - I agree that this is likely a misguided editor who is a fan of the TV show, and we should do our best to try and educate the user and avoid leaving any bite marks. That being said, the user's intent starts to become irrelevant if the disruptive editing continues despite repeated messages, warnings, and requests for it to stop. Regardless of whether or not the editing is being made in good faith vs bad faith, if the editing behavior is disruptive, repeated, and continues after being given a fair number of warnings and opportunities to cut it out, the user can be blocked in order to protect the project and prevent further disruption from occurring. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 17:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input, Oshwah. Seeing as how this editor refuses to communicate and is edit warring, I have temporarily blocked them. Like I said, I want to assume good faith, but the possibility that this is some sort of astroturfing campaign is still within the realm of possibility. --Kinu t/c 15:22, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Civility issues with an editor

Can someone talk to User:Alex Devens about what's expected with civility? They've been blocked for WP:NPA issues in the past and just posted this bizarre rant at and AFD of there article that ended with the article being speedied [209]. Definitely an issue here. Previously block was this January, see the block log: [210]. I initiated the AfD, but I believe I'm otherwise uninvolved in this situation. Hog Farm (talk) 23:56, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have blocked the user indefinitely, given this was an exceptionally blatant personal attack after they'd already been blocked for a month for what was, if anything, something significantly milder. I do not consider a user that's had multiple warnings and opportunities to stop doing this, but hasn't, to be capable of collaborating with others in this kind of project. I invite review if anyone thinks I'm being too harsh here. ~ mazcatalk 00:44, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I endorse this block, and it would take a truly exceptional transformation for me to support an unblock. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Block looks good. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism of Pashtun pages

Hello, I'm writing this message here to draw the attention to activities of one of the users who goes by the name kami2018. This (kami2018) account engages in war edits. I have observed that whenever any user reverts his edits or makes changes to the edits he has made such as in the case Bangash or Ahmadzai (wazir clan) Kami2018 not only reverts them but also uses rather an aggressive tone in info bar. For example he made an edit to Ahmadzai (wazir clan) writing that '[this tribe] lives on border between Birman valley and Kurram valley' even though the source explicitly mentions that Ahmadzai were originally based in Birman valley. You can check the source by typing in Ahmadzai in the search bar & download the doc. This was reverted later by Yamaguchi (another Administrator on WP). But this is one example of his nonsensical behavior. He has done the same to the page of Bangash tribe. According to the attached (Iranica encyclopedia) reference they were settled in gardez in Afghanistan until 10 CE. Afterwards they migrated to their current location in Kurram valley. But because it was changed by an IP citing the reason that the source mentions Gardez,(which it does, please look that up) and that 'Gardez' was removed by 'Saladin1987' (now a banned user), Kami2018 (who, it appears, previously operated under the username 'saladin1987') reverted the edit. Kami2018 continues to use WP platform to promote his own personal opinions, which are by any account biased and obviously nationalistic (anti Afghan and pro Pakistan). He randomly removes 'Afghan' "Afghanistan" and Iranic peoples" and other such terms related to Afghans/Pashtuns/Afghanistan from articles and inserts 'Pakistan' even if the doesn't mention Pakistan. He has been warned multiple times on his talk page User_talk:Kami2018 multiple times for his disruptive behaviour. He continues to remove those messages of warning but I'm sure administrators here can look into that. Furthermore, many of his edits as I have checked are reverted and he has been warned already. I dont know who to reach out to so I'm writing here. (because I dont know the technical aspects of using WP which is why I haven't formally joined this community.) I request you to PLEASE look into this and take an action! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.50.95.62 (talkcontribs) @ 21:17, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Kansas Bear: You seem to be familar with Kami2018. Can you elaborate a little better?--v/r - TP 23:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It seems that Kami2018 has been editing with a pro-Pakistan POV based on his edits but I don't know enough about the topic area to judge adequately.--v/r - TP 23:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In response to TParis.
Kami2018 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I investigated Kami2018's editing following the IP's post on my talk page. Following a cursory inquiry into Kami2018's editing, I found Kami2018 had added "Kurram Valley" to a referenced sentence.
Copied from Kami2018's talk page:
"Do you have a source for this edit of yours?
  • "...Kurram Valley of present Pakistan, where they were still living as of the Ghaznavids period (975 to 1187)."
The source states:
  • "The ethnogenesis of the Bangaṧ, therefore, seems both to be religious and to be located in the Gardīz region during the Ghaznavid period. Later on the Bangaṧ, who were then expelled from their mountain den by the Ḡelzī during Tīmūr’s invasions, crossed the Paywār pass and progressively moved into the upper Korram basin on the eastern slopes of the Solaymān mountains."
"Therefore, the Bangas were not in the Korram basin until after Timur's invasion. Do you have a source stating otherwise?"
"AND, why did you remove referenced information along with the reference from this article?"
I have not received a response from Kami2018 at this time. Essentially, Kami2018 has added unsupported information to a sourced sentence and removed reference information and a reference from another article. I have not checked on the other allegations made by the IP. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
More from IP101.50.95.62
Please read further as I provide proof of kami2018's disruptive behaviour.

There are many more examples of Kami2018 adding information without adding a source:

There are countless examples of Kami2018 adding info to Pashtun articles without adding reference or adding info contrary to what the cited reference states.

Also check out his talk page. See these examples of warning which Kami2018 removed from his talk page

  • Here he blames an IP which he also mentioned earlier for removing content that was without reference. Kami2018 here is warned by Yamaguchi for doing that. Kami2018 gets personal with other users who revert his foul edits or add/remove information that Kami2018 doesn't approve of. (SEE here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/950382631)

At the end I would reiterate what I wrote earlier, Kami2018 is driven by his nationalistic instincts to remove information to disrupt WP articles on Pashtuns and Afghanistan. He is clearly anti-Afghan sentiments are visible through vandalism of Pashtun pages.

As an administrator I hope you will take action in light of examples I've provided you here.

Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.50.95.62 (talkcontribs) 23:13, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever IP has mentioned and is referring as sourced information is not always the case. Below are some of the articles where he keeps on removing sourced information and even the sources. He blames me for using foul language. I would appreciate if he could provide me with an example where i have used such language ? if you look at the following he keeps on adding Afghanistan in every article:

Amir Kror Suri - For this he keeps on adding that he established Ghorid Empire but ghurid dynasty was established by another Amir Suri. Please refer the language here [[211]]

Durrani - Keeps on removing Pakistan when Pakistan has the 70 percent Pashtun Population. Please refer [[212]] where he removes information without any reference. I am not involved in this edit.

Removing referenced information like "The cult of this god was primarily Hindu, though parallels have also been noted with pre-Buddhist religious and monarchy practices in Tibet and had Zoroastrian influence in its ritual" from Zunbils. Please refer [[213]] and [[214]] where he removed sourced content.

Kambojas - This IP user has been removing referenced information with multiple IP's. Please refer [[215]] where he removes sourced content

Muhammadzai (Hashtnagar) - They were originally said to have resided in Afghanistan - Now the source does not mention this at all but he has added it. Please refer [[216]]. This was the original content.

Turi (Pashtun tribe)] - He keeps on adding Khogyani without any reference when under Pashtun tribes it is Karlani. Please refer [[217]] where he removes without any references

He has operated under multiple IP's 101.50.95.62 and 58.65.159.42

I would really appreciate if he could let me know where i have used abusive language or even became personal. He has been personal many times calling me Punjabi nationalist anti afghan Pakistani nationalist and giving me different names which can be seen in the history of his edits.

The most abusive language he has used is as of here where he is abusing Indians in general [[218]]. Anybody can use translation to translate the abuse hurled at the users and indians in general. Clearly we can see who uses abusive language here [[219]] and [[220]] and [[221]]. He abuses indian, Pakistani or even anybody while he reverts their edits. Following his unreferenced edits, i did revert some of his edits but nowhere i engaged in edit wars rather he has been abusive at several occasions. Whatever he adds or removes is without references. I havent added anything myself rather i did revert some of his edits to the original wording before he removed stuff without explaination. Here we can clearly see the language he uses while he reverts the edits. [[222]] and [[223]]

I would greatly appreciate if he could provide me any link where i have been abusive. Kami2018 (talk) 00:42, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kami2018 (talk) 23:37, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kansas Bear, as you mentioned :::"AND, why did you remove referenced information along with the reference from this article?", i basically didn't add any information rather reverted the article back to the original content as seen here [[224]]. Many of the edits by the IP were actually reverted due to copyright issue as can be seen here [[225]] and i just changed the article back to original content as it was here [[226]].
In relation to the Bangash i changed the article to original content as can be seen here [[227]]. I did not add anything myself and i might have not looked at the reference. But by looking at the history of the IP edits here [[228]] where he is clearly abusing Indians no constructive edits can be imagined. Anybody can use translation to translate the abuse hurled at the users and indians in generalKami2018 (talk) 01:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


To begin with I never called Kami2018 a Punjabi nationalist. Perhaps that's how he identifies himself but I've never called him that.

The question here is the disruptive behaviour of Kami2018. If his edits were correct then why were they reverted? The activities of the said IP is not under scrutiny here. The behaviour of kami2018 is. He should provide reason why he made those foul edits which were reverted. I have provided proof here. kami2018 has already been warned for edit war by Kansas Bear. Please check this out: (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/905422999). This warning was removed by Kami2018.

Also here I would like to say that kami2018 used this account ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:2605:6000:8B06:D100:C8E2:6E98:17C8:915E) to edit Ahmadzai (Wazir) page. Please see below:

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/941110583)

And then he re-edited the page see here: (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/942680894). I believe Kami2018 operated under this ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:2605:6000:8B06:D100:C8E2:6E98:17C8:915E). Please look into this.

As for allegations of Kami2018 towards IP, all those allegations have already been addressed on the page of Kansas Bear. But there are addressed below.


  • First off, Muhammadzai (Hashtnagar) page that kami2018 talks about is absolutely wrong. The cited source mentions 'Khorasan' in modern day Afghanistan, (read the last paragraph of the page 883 of this reference in the article: [229] please check that there is NO mention of Zhob or any other Pakistani city). This was changed to ' Zhob' Pakistan by 'Saladin1987' years ago. The edit by Saladin1987 (now banned and apparently active under a new user name that is I believe is kami2018) was reverted. But Kami2018 re-added the false info. Why? I request you to read the source yourself. The source mentions (Khorasan) - modern day Afghanistan.
  • As far as Amir Kror Suri is concerned, he was a legendary figure in Pashtun folklore (not a real Amir Suri) in Ghor and he has been called 'King of Ghor' in the Pashtun epic Pata Khazana. Ofcourse Amir Kror Suri and Amor Suri are not the same because Amir Suri was the actual ruler from Ghor who went on to establish Ghorid Empire in 8 CE. This is written in the very next sentence only if Kami2018 had bothered to read that.
  • Furthermore Kami2018 mentions Durrani tribe of Pashtuns. Sir, Durranis, historically known as Abdali, are primarily found in southern Afghanistan which is mentioned in the very article and a reference is cited as well ( look at the intro paragraph). Anyone can read that. Just to brief you a little. The two major tribal confederates among Pashtuns are Ghilzais and Durranis who are primarily found in Afghanistan, NOT Pakistan. The so called '70%' Pashtuns living in Pakistan has nothing to do with the tribal division between Afghanistan and Pakistan. If you're interested to know further, you can read up on this.
  • BUT that's not it. Kami2018 uses his account to vandalize other pages. See here

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/942685227) by adding Pakistan without a reference.

  • Similraly to punjabi qisse, Kami2018 removed Afghanistan when it actually was in that article long before. Kami2018 removed Afghanistan without any explanation. The reference no longer exists, but kami2018 still removed Afghanistan from the page. Why?


I request the admin here to check out his talk page where he has been warned multiple times of his disruptive behaviour.

The question here is Kami2018's behavioir so why is he justifying his behaviour by pointing out what other accounts do. As far as I see, the edits made by IP were restored by Yamaguchi while the edits made by kami2018 were reverted. Why?

I reiterate what I wrote earlier, kami2018 edits pages with pro-Pakistan POV. Please look into his account and take an action.

Regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.50.95.62 (talkcontribs) 11:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


To Answer a few questions here as i have other stuff to do:

  • Muhammadzai (Hashtnagar) page that kami2018 talks about is absolutely wrong. The cited source mentions 'Khorasan' in modern day Afghanistan,

As you yourself mentioned that you added Afghanistan but the source says Khorasan. Please refer here Greater Khorasan to see how many countries are part of Khorasan.

The source that you are referring to actually supports the numbers which i added Please compare this edit [[230]] with the source [[231]]

So here you yourself contradict yourself by calling Sistan a part of Iran and Afghanistan. But then Specically Sistani "Afghan" was added to prove linkage to Afghanistan. Please refer [[232]]

These are a few answers to the IP who has been using abuse language towards me and other users. I have previously provided some examples and links to his comments related to race and ethnicity of other users. Kami2018 (talk) 18:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Epik (domain registrar)

A commenter at Talk:Epik (domain registrar) has asked Where are all of the other Wikipedia assistants who should be protecting their own platform here? Figured I'd help them out by putting their plea where the Wikipedia assistants would see it—I happen to agree that there needs to be more eyes on that page. GorillaWarfare (talk) 03:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this an NLT violation? M Imtiaz (talk) 04:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: Can I get an illustration appropriate for seeing the wall of text, rolling my eyes, and doing a u-turn out of the nonsense? Natureium (talk) 04:13, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've issued an NLT block. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 06:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And to try to make the page a bit more readable, I've hatted a couple of long rants containing personal attacks and legal threats. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:11, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've reverted and blocked the latest sock/meat posting the same personal attacks against GorillaWarfare, and showing the same stylistic tells as all the others. There's clearly extensive socking and/or coordination going on here, so I've also semi-protected that page for 24 hours. As I have commented on the change proposal there, I'm trespassing on WP:Involved by taking admin actions. But I think the level of coordinated personal attacks justifies a bit of WP:IAR here, and I open my actions to any other admin to revert, endorse, whatever, as you see fit. Also, could any admins who can spare a little time please keep an eye on that page. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:22, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CIR - SHISHIR DUA

I think we need a competency block for SHISHIR DUA (talk · contribs), an editor whose over-enthusiasm strays into disruptive. Some examples:

I, and others, find ourselves spending more and more time cleaning up after this editor. My previous attempt to reach out fell on deaf ears.

I suggest that unless serious and genuine assurances are given, SHISHIR DUA is blocked per CIR. GiantSnowman 16:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop harassin' others by usin' administrative might. Everythin' is relevant SHISHIR DUA (talk) 16:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Everythin' is relevant is not a persuasive argument. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 18:25, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think their response is a great example of their general attitude to Wikipedia. Doing what they want, refusing to listen or work with others - the antithesis of what Wikipedia is actually about. GiantSnowman 19:31, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What I saw in their edits (5000 or so?) does not suggest CIR to me. They may have created a project and the attendant templates and categories, but this essentially conflates all your points: if they create this project because they think they are doing a noteworthy thing, it stands to reason that they would create the categories etc. to go with it. Now, that their comment here shows a lack of collegiality, which is essential to a collaborative project, doesn't mean they're a candidate for an indefinite block. But I am not the best person to ask them to stop being antagonistic. At the same time, going to ANI after one notification was ignored, that's a big step, and it seems to me that this should be taken up first at one of the soccer project pages--y'all have functioning projects, so use them. Drmies (talk) 21:48, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Am I missing something? GS noted that the category they created already existed under a different name (Category:Indian Super League head coaches). They have created two new categories, which duplicate this one. Number57 22:03, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And list articles copied and retitled with the exact same duplicated list under different names, I've PROD'ed some which got deleted. It can be quite repetitive. Govvy (talk) 22:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:Number 57, did you ask that of me? Because I'd ask whether we are seriously considering indeffing someone for creating a duplicate category. Drmies (talk) 00:39, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree that would be very strange to block them if the category were the only issue, but several other problems have been noted by GS and Govvy above. Number57 11:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Drmies: what about the articles/categories that have been deleted? The comments from other editors which have fallen on deaf ears? The more this editor edits, the more mess we have to clean up. GiantSnowman 16:40, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HandThatFeeds, Drmies, Number 57, and Govvy: this editor has today re-created Category:Greek Football Cup players, a category which they previously created and which was deleted by CFD only a week ago. This cannot continue. GiantSnowman 16:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ugh, yeah, in that case a short block to get their attention is in order. They need to understand they cannot simply recreate deleted categories like that. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If somebody uninvolved could step in, that would be great... GiantSnowman 15:21, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've blocked them for 2 weeks, the next one should be indef, the refusal to engage (pure WP:IDHT), removal of notices, huge number of deleted creations, 2 weeks is pretty short imho but they do good work sometimes and maybe it's possible to fix the present issues without an indef. --qedk (t c) 14:44, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks @QEDK: - what would your suggestion be dealing with cleaning up some of their mess whilst they are blocked? eg I don't want to take the WikiProject they created to MFD whilst they are blocked because that looks sly, but it needs doing sooner rather than later... GiantSnowman 16:09, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@GiantSnowman: If it feels the project (and other pages) are WP:NOTHERE enough, you can choose to not wait - ethically might be not okay, but improvements to the encyclopedia are always worth WP:IARing over. --qedk (t c) 11:58, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mavi Gözlü Kel

As previous ban expired, the same user reinstated the same edits + tons of new questionable edits[233] --Havsjö (talk) 21:11, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot help but notice there has been zero attempts at any discussions with this user. Nothing on either their talk pages nor the talk pages of the article. Not even any warnings or templates to the user other than ANI discussion notifications. Canterbury Tailtalk 22:17, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Havsjö, please start a discussion on the article's talk page and notify Mavi Gözlü Kel of the discussion and location. If edit warring continues despite the attempt at discussing the matter, you can file a report here. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 02:18, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Canterbury Tail:@Oshwah: Well, after initial reverts he just wrote "fck u" on my talk page[234] (which among other things led to my first report), but discussion can be attempted in the future --Havsjö (talk) 06:55, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Havsjö - *Sigh*.... Lovely.... Thank you for letting me know about the message; I'm sorry that it happened. That behavior is clearly unacceptable, and it has no place here. Please let me know if any further edits or incivility occurs, and I'll be happy to step in. I warned Mavi Gözlü Kel for edit warring yesterday, and he/she hasn't made further edits to the article since. Right now, we should focus on attempting to discuss and resolve the dispute peacefully. Worst case scenario: Mavi Gözlü Kel continues what they're doing and ends up blocked. Best case scenario: They listen, understand, and choose to participate and comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 16:45, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

user:193.190.253.145

There's been a history of vandalism from this IP. I assume it may be multiple users, so I don't know how this would usually be dealt with. But I figure its worth looking into as the IP's talk page [235] contains many warnings for this kind of behavior. Bacondrum (talk) 00:54, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty low level, despite the length of the talk page though the years. This is not immediately actionable, beyond the warning they've already incurred today. If there is sudden burst of activity, please let us know. El_C 00:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)It looks like it's a shared IP from a Belgian university, it's likely almost every edit is from a different user. The edits seem to have been fairly spaced out and are frequently neutral if not actually helpful, even though there's a sparse scattering of vandalism in there too. IP addresses like this can be blocked temporarily if one or more users starts actively vandalising - use WP:AIV if there's a sudden burst of it - but in general there's very little we can or should do if there's the odd single unconstructive edit - just revert it and move on. ~ mazcatalk 00:59, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, just thought I'd bring it to the attention of more experienced users. Thanks. Bacondrum (talk) 01:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

HHH Pedrigree

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

On the WWE Hall of Fame discussion on the talk page of the wrestling Wikiproject, I made one last comment to HHH Pedrigree as you can see and he responded by telling me to "fuck off" as you can see. He was very uncivil. I've never seen anyone swear at someone nor have I been sworn at or swore at some. If he had an issue with something said, he could messaged me on my talk and we could have worked it out . But he decided to respond the way he did. Never had a problem with him till this happened. This is serious and needs to be dealt with accordingly. Thank you. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 08:22, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You repeatedly said that he's not neutral. What did you expect him to say? That said, he shouldn't resort to insults. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I said so. First you made several changes on the Hall of Fame article. I explained since, from the beginin, there is a consensus: just the most notable titles, supported by several users for 10 years. However, you said there is no consensus even If I prove it. Then, a discussion, fine. Let's go to a new consensus. During the discussion, you disrespected me. I show several users, examples of other articles and gave sources, but in the end, you and JDC only relive my argments because I used the word I think, calling me No neutral (For years, people has complained because I sound to agressive English is not my first language), but is just a way to express. There is any difference between "I think this policy applies" and "this policy applies". Also, you insulted me. You told me "I'm wrong", "afraid of change", "a yes-man" and I told you these kind of comments aren't neccesary, but I don't see any apology. (In fact, JDC called me yesman one more time, again, an insult during a civil discussion). I have spent 10 years here, learning and reading several policies, but suddenly, I'm just a no-neutral yesman and users of the project insults me just because I don't agree with them. After 4 users said they prefer a new consensus, I agree, I don't change my mind about the issue, but I see more users want to change it. Then, Insult to injury. You told me that I should agree with you before and don't waste your time while you *Shake my head*. What do you expect? To smile at you? I felt very unrespected and insulted during the whole process and you joked on me even after the discussion ended. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My calling you a "yes-man" was based on your editorial behavior of seemingly only going with the status quo as opposed to actually forming solid arguments to support your position. It was not intended as an uncivil insult, but rather a flaw to work on. --JDC808 19:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • New rule. In any dispute infvolving wrestling,. all parties are blocked for 31h. Guy(help!) 10:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Absofuckinglutely. About time. Plus smash their keyboards with metal chairs. EEng 10:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cheating in a fake fight. A new low. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 12:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@JzG: You can't just make new rule without consulting other peopl just because you are am admin. That's not how that works. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 18:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fishhead2100, I'm 95% confident that JzG was being facetious. creffett (talk) 18:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Creffett: Sometimes you can always tell in text. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 18:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The level of disrespect from the admins here is atrocious, regardless of how many ANI reports come from our particular project. --JDC808 19:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JDC808, maybe because you take fake fighting waaaaaaaaay too seriously and Wikipedia core policy not half seriously enough. Guy(help!) 19:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's nice to know that you blatantly admitted to being disrespectful. And you guys were made admins how? It does not matter how seriously one takes a form of interest. I mean, are you all this disrespectful to those with interests in other forms of entertainment (a lot of which is also fake mind you). --JDC808 19:48, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fishhead2100, would you like to test that hypothesis? Guy (help!) 19:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@NinjaRobotPirate: Saying "I think" is not neutral. A fundamental of Wikipedia is to have an NPOV. You can be for or against something while doing so in a neutral manner. If you were debating someone, you wouldn't say "I think." You present arguments for or against something while remaining neutrak with the language you use. He was also hoping that people who participated in the previous discussion about this particular WWE Hall of Fame issue would chime in. He miight have thought that if they did that their thinking would have remanied the and would have agreed with him. If he did think that, that's not neutral either. But that's not issue at hand though. The issue is as stated. He told me to "fuck off." Like I said, if there was problem with what was being, he should have came to me or JDC808 on our talk pages and it would have been worked out. If would have apologized and admitted what he said was wrong, I would have accepted and moved on.

HHH Pedrigree You didn't like the fact that accolades WWE recognizes JBL for were added because you deemed them unimportant because that is "consensus" and you didn't like the fact that it was being challenged. The box is called "WWE recognized accolades" for a reason. It's not "WWE accolades we deem important are only added." You were going off a discussion that happened well over ten-years ago. You were dead set against against change. You said because consensus was established all those years ago, it shouldn't be changed or even in the very least discussed. You continually would find any reason to try and shut us down. You were hoping people involved the previous discussion would chime in because you were hoping you'd get people on your side because you are against changing the way something is done. That's not neutral. Just consensus was established all those years ago doesn't mean it will he like that forever and never discussed or changed. Ways of doing things can become outdated or not proper. You are allowed to challenge the "consensus," but you are dead set against that. You like the "status quo." You just want to keep doing it the way it was in the past because it's always been done that way. When the in wrestling sections were done away with, I didn't like that. I was against it. I have learned to accept and now think it is okay. Someone challenged consensus and it got changed. So yes, consensus is not set in stone. Also, you starting how long you've been on Wikipedia is irrelevant to that discussion. I have been on Wikipedia for 15-years, but I have never once brought that up. I've rambled and strayed from the original intent of coming to the notice board. If you apologized and admitted what you said was wrong, I would have accepted and moved on. But since you haven't bothered to do that, we will have to seen where this goes. Oh and I never once swore at you or anything like. Also, JDC calling you a yes man is something you have to talk to him about. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 17:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What are you expecting? You're not going to convince me. I already gave up. The discussion is over. You insulted me the whole discussion and joked on me after that. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@HHH Pedrigree: I said you weren't being neutral. I explicitly said here, if something said in that discussion was a problem, you could have come to me on my talk page and it would have been resolved. Instead, you went as far as to tell me to "fuck off." I also said if you apologized and admitted what you said was wrong, I would have accepted and moved on. Before this, I never had an issue with you until you told me to "fuck off." There are insignificant things about you that are pet peeves. The main one was something someone already pointed out to you. Regardless of those things, I never had an issue with you. I want you to seriously answer these questions. Why are you against "consensus" being challenged? Are you afraid of change? Are you afraid that something won't be the way you know it? Are you afraid that you might be wrong? Are you afraid the correct way doing things would be established? Who are you to deem and pick and choose certain accolades WWE recognizes and has listed in Hall of Fame profiles on their site as not as important as other WWE recognized accolades? Do you not see that excluding those accolades is wrong? Answering these is not asking much. You never answered some of these things in the discussion. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 18:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Saying "I think" is not neutral. is one of the dumber things I've heard in a day full of dumb things. Grandpallama (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Grandpallama: It's not though. You say "I think" when you know.you aren't supposed to be neutral. You can say what you have to say without saying "I think." Plus what he thinks is not really what thinks. He wants to stick with the so-called "status quo" because that is what has been done for years based on an outdated "consensus." Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 18:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop poking HHH Pedrigree. Your interest in policing the phrase "I think" is getting a bit disruptive, and I suggest that you drop the issue. There is nothing wrong with using that phrase, and people don't have to be mindlessly neutral on talk pages. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you make stupid assertions such as Saying "I think" is not neutral then you shouldn't be surprised if people swear at you. Spike 'em (talk) 21:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Spike: That's not a good reason to swear at someone. Mr. C.C.Hey yo!I didn't do it! 05:32, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Spike 'em: I believe this last comment was meant to be addressed to you, not me... Spike (talk) 10:17, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Spike. I stand by what I said: that is one of the stupidest things I have read in a discussion on here. Spike 'em (talk) 14:14, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I don't blame HHH for losing his temper. It was a discussion of opinion. People are going to say "I think" when giving opinions. Not one iota of that is invalid, and the implication that it somehow makes it illegitimate is frankly silly. oknazevad (talk) 14:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I hate everything about this thread and am tempted to agree with JzG's "facetious" viewpoint.--WaltCip (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Copyvio pics, probable COI, edit-warring copyvios back, etc.

Cpitcher1977 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been adding copyvio pictures to the article he created: James Ketchell (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views). In the Commons, he declares the copyvio pictures he uploads as authored by James Ketchell himself. Please see c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Cpitcher1977. Meanwhile, in Wikipedia he restores the copyvio pictures I had removed earlier while removing multiple times COI tags placed in the article. Overall, very bad editing tactics. If not an indef, we need at least a final warning and/or a topic ban from the article. Dr. K. 04:55, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly COI and/or copyvio, merits attention.--Eostrix (talk) 09:35, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeffed. MER-C 18:49, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Editor emptying categories then requesting CfD, refuses to discuss or use WP:CFD

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chris.sherlock (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has emptied Category:Australian convict women and then sought speedy deletion for it being an empty category. I noticed this as I have had Mary Bryant on my watchlist since 2006. I noticed the removal, reverted advising in the edit summary that WP:CFD was the correct place to seek deletion, and objected to the speedy on the category talk page. Chris.sherlock then undid my reversion (contrary to WP:BRD. I left a note on his talkpage advising him of WP:BRD and WP:CFD. He responded by telling me to go away and threatening to take me to ArbCom. DuncanHill (talk) 14:15, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He then went to another board to ask others to step in, and made personal attacks on me. I only saw that because he pinged me in the comment. DuncanHill (talk) 14:19, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have very little to say to DuncanHill. I asked him not to post to my user talk page, but he has decided that he will do so anyway. Anyway, on the issue at hand, it was extensively discussed at on AWNB and we came to a consensus on the best way to handle a problem with the category structure we were using, as Gnangarra pointed out, “being a 20th century Australian woman writer is not an occupation, nor is it a defining characteristic, or subset of 20th century Australians by occupation".
I think this is likely an attempt by DuncanHill to needle me. He’s done this in the past, at this point I feel he is deliberately harassing me.
I did tell the guys at AWNB what is happening because we all discussed the issue and came to a decision on the best way forward. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. it is just past midnight here so I’m going to bed, so you may not hear from me till morning. Night to all those in my timezone! - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and incidentally, I don’t believe for a minute that he only noticed my category changes when he saw me make a change on Mary Bryant, because he reverted a CSD I placed on a category well before I made the change to articles in the convict category. I'm curious how he knew about this... unless he’s been obsessively stalking my contribution history, I’d say he did this because he’s got my talk page on his watch list. I don't think he's being very honest, and it really is getting to the stage of harassment and I wish he’d stop. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have had Mary Bryant on my watchlist since I edited it in 2006. I noticed the edit removing a category and followed that up. It could have been done by anybody and I would have done the same thing. The correct venue to seek deletion of a category is WP:CFD. DuncanHill (talk) 14:29, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't place your answers above the thing they are answering, it looks deceitful. DuncanHill (talk) 14:41, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Duncan, I wasn't answering you. I want nothing to do with you. There was an edit conflict. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no WP:HARASSment going on; [236] including this very discussion, you've only edited the same pages in the same month eight times—and of those, on five occasions DH was the first to post. And of course at least one of those edits—to your talk page—was an official requirement over and above the allowance made to editors per WP:NOBAN. Harassment is a serious accusation, and I think casting such an accusation groundlessly, cheapens the offence. It is also, perhaps, inflammatory, to suggest that DH went [237]straight to the dramaboards, when in just the preceding section, you threatened to go to Arbcom. Describing other editors as "obsessive2 could also be construed as an WP:ASPERSION.
    However, DuncanHill, even though you may feel strongly that CS was in breach of WP:CANVAS, some may argue that—while CS's phrasing may have been a little florid, it was fair to mention the direction the discussion had turned in on the same noticeboard that it had begun. The same goes for accusations of deceit; while you have a right to be sensitive, edit conflicts are legion here, are they not, and could also be construed as an aspersion. ——SN54129 14:58, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You know that my other account was User:Letsbefiends and User:Ta bu shi da yu, right? I’m not sure what that link shows as it’s not loading for me, but I suggest you check that account and User:Tbsdy lives. There are many people who have noted his animosity to me over the years, perhaps JzG could fill you in.
Incidentally, as the creator of this forum, it is a drama board and I often regret having started it. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Whether you "created" this forum (or rather, its main page where there is, in fact, far less drama) does not alter the fact that arbcom is a greater drama board yet. And yes, your history is well known, Chris.sherlock; I didn't want to include it (generally, it's irrelevant here what happened years ago), but your previous (TBDSY, LBF) show a corollating low-level of interaction. So yeah, maybe reduce both the interaction and the aspersions even further. ——SN54129 15:33, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What do you think I’ve been trying to do? I didn’t initiate any of this. And it’s not irrelevant when the other party literally holds a decade old grudge. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:35, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a grudge against you Chris, despite the years of abuse from you and the disgusting email you sent me. I feel sorry for you (as a human being) and wish you (as an editor) would go to WP:CFD and follow the instructions there. DuncanHill (talk) 16:03, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what abuse you are referring to. And I’m not sure why you are sorry for me. That’s quite... condescending. Your own words show you do indeed have a grudge. Let’s not speak again. Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Go to WP:CFD and make your case there. I won't join the debate as long as you don't mention me there. There, that suit you? DuncanHill (talk) 16:12, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Stop trying to engage with me Duncan. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Stop posting here then, go to WP:CFD and propose the deletions there. DuncanHill (talk) 16:34, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Duncan, you are the one who brought this here for discussion and review, so discuss it I shall, though hopefully not with you. I guess that’s my final thing I need to say to you. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Serial Number 54129: I must have missed the edit summary explaining the move. Had I known it was an edit conflict I would have understood. DuncanHill (talk) 15:16, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, DH; the lack of an edit-summary does make it easier for parties to suggest that in fact, "edit-conflict" was just thought up after the event :) ——SN54129 15:33, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What the heck does that mean? Do you normally speak to someone directly in the second person like I did in my reply? I certainly don’t. If I have something to say to someone directly, I use their name and such words as “you”, I don’t use words such as "he" when speaking to someone directly. If that’s how you communicate, it must get fairly confusing! - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:34, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instead of using this as an opportunity to fight, why not ask User:BrownHairedGirl and do whatever she says? I would have thought the whole point of categories was to have an overarching system, not to have the Australian wikiproject decide how to categorize Australian writers, the US wikiproject decide how to categorize American writers, etc. I'm sure BHG knows whatever that overarching system is. (I should probably have asked her if I could suggest this; if she doesn't want to be "volunteered" for this, then ask at WT:CATP.) --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:24, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is one :-) it is point 1. of WP:EGRS#General:
Do not create categories that are a cross-section of a topic with an ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation, unless these characteristics are relevant to the topic.
In our discussions that was the Australian contingent’s concern. Not sure how the rest of the world does things, but in Australia we don’t have an occupation of “Australian women writers”. We have “Australian writers”. If other countries have this, then I guess we should use it for those countries but that’s not the way things work in Australia! - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:50, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let’s keep in mind the bones of this, rather than personalities. Doing something piecemeal, and then using that to justify another action, is generally a Bad Thing. Parricides don’t get sympathy because they are orphans, do they? Qwirkle (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You mean, like WP:EGRS#General point 1.? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Without splitting hairs, that's an important guideline; but it doesn't override policy, of course. Night! ——SN54129 16:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could you clarify which policy you are referring to? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:26, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CONLIMITED is policy, and WP:EGRS is a guideline. Night. ——SN54129 16:32, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, that policy says that consensus should not trump policy. What policy are we overturning? It would be amusing if the answer was WP:CONLIMITED, but I had rather assumed you had a specific policy other than that one in mind. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would be more amusing if you just dialed the passive-aggression back a notch. ——SN54129 19:11, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please tell me what policy you are referring to? I don’t believe you have answered my question. It’s a fairly serious accusation you have levelled against me and a number of others - you say we have violated a policy, I think it only fair that you tell us what that policy is. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 21:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Serial Number 54129, I have waited quite a while for a response to a fairly simple question. What policy have we violated? - Chris.sherlock (talk) 06:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yesterday I had the pleasure of interacting with Chris for the first time, on my user talk page, arising out of the last ANI thread about Chris. It's too bad there's a new ANI thread today. This comment at WP:AWN (Mitch Ames, Gnangarra, JarrahTree, The Drover's Wife, we have a major issue developing. It appears a few uninvolved parties have decided that we, as a bunch of Australians, don't know how to structure categories around Australia. They have been reverting the changes we agreed on. Can I get some help when you get a chance?) strikes me as battleground canvassing, with a lot of ownership to boot. Trying to wedge Australian editors from other editors is extremely uncool. The last thing we need is to go tribal. It was followed up by this comment, Ok, now I’m getting harassed by User:DuncanHill, who is attempting to start a revert war. If anyone wants to step in, it would be appreciated. I really don’t want to interact with that guy, he has been horrid to engage with from the very start and personally hates me to the point where it is impossible to deal with him. In fact, I have told him I want nothing to do with him and I asked him some robe ago not to post to my user talk page as he tends to harass me - I’m fairly certain he has gotten involved because he has my user talk page on his watch list and is doing this just to needle me. The point being is he will be quite happy to unravel all our food work. (I assume he means "good work"), which also strikes me as battleground canvassing. The heat needs to be significantly turned down here. We get nowhere by turning against each other, or trying to rally editors against other editors with nationalist appeals. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 18:24, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I had the especial pleasure of being told I was full of shit by Levivich yesterday. The admiration goes both ways. The original person who filed yesterday's AN/I thread, incidentally, apologised to me. The issue was over WP:DOB, and nobody could give an example of where I violated the policy. You, however, removed reliable sources of information and retained unreliable sources, and then got upset when I noted this. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 22:12, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This whole ANI thread is an unwarranted and aggressive escalation that clearly seems to be motivated by some longstanding personal history given Duncan's comments. I don't particularly understand why the "Australian convict women" category is being emptied, but rather than revert-warring and instantly escalating to ANI, it would have been much more helpful to either ask Chris what was going on or to take it to WP:AWNB for some further feedback from Australian editors. (My instinct, not knowing the actual reason, is that I probably would have agreed with Duncan on the content issue if he had.)

The allegations of canvassing for bringing it to the general noticeboard of Australian editors (for an Australian-specific category in the Australian category tree) is crap. It's a way of bringing it to editors who probably have relevant opinions, but not necessarily taking any particular side given that it's just a country-wide noticeboard, and everyone he pinged directly tends to have different opinions on these issues from one another. Everyone directly involved in this needs to dial back on the aggro, chill out a bit and focus on discussing and resolving the actual issues. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Drover's Wife: your comment that this is an unwarranted and aggressive escalation that clearly seems to be motivated by some longstanding personal history given Duncan's comments is complete wrong. This desire to eliminate Australian-women-by-occupation should have been a proposal at WP:CFD accompanied by a neutral notification at WP:AWNB ... but instead it has been implemented in a rush by a small clique at WP:AWNB, without any notifications. The only aggression here is from this small clique of Aussie editors (I think 4 in all) who have bypassed CFD and gotten all angry when challenged about their misconduct and asked to use established processes.
At User_talk:Chris.sherlock#Category:_20th-century_Australian_women_artists, at least three editors had asked User:Chris.sherlock to use WP:CFD, but Chris rejected their requests. So ANI is the proper venue to discuss such rejection of process. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 23:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@BrownHairedGirl: - what clique? Chris was trying to find a solution to his disagreement with Mitch Ames, Mitch and Chris both agreed that it was a solution they could agree on, and the other two editors in the discussion (one of which was me) both went "meh". He should have used WP:CFD, but he's been gone from Wikipedia a long time and it seems just forgot the appropriate process to do this by; unfortunately, in not doing that, he's accidentally stumbled into a whole different dispute that I'm pretty sure he didn't realise he was getting into by trying to compromise with Mitch. There is no "desire to eliminate Australian women-by-occupation" - he depopulated the category that was the subject of his dispute with Mitch, asked for feedback about a different occupation category given that he apparently recognised that what he'd just done had wider implications, didn't get any responses, and stopped. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Drover's Wife: The clique is the 4 editors (of whom you appear to be one) who decided to implement a wide-raging set of changes, using the wrong venue, with zero attempt at notification ... and esp User:Chris.sherlock, who repeatedly rejected requests made by other editors to stop depopulating these categories, and use WP:CFD:
So it's quite perverse for User:The Drover's Wife to accuse DuncanHill of unwarranted and aggressive escalation, and especially to make an unqualified assertion that DuncanHill was acting in bad faith (clearly seems to be motivated by some longstanding personal histor. Note that it's not allegation or a suggestion or a query; it's an assertion as fact that DuncanHill's has ulterior motive.
If The Drover's Wife is acting in good faith, then I hope that The Drover's Wife will demonstrate that good faith by striking those unfounded attacks on DuncanHill, and preferably apologising. DuncanHill has tried to uphold established consensus-forming processes, and should not be subject to this sort of smear campaign. Chris.sherlock and The Drover's Wife both need to clean up their acts, fast, before sanctions get applied. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 23:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Where, exactly, did this "clique" decide to "implement a wide-ranging set of changes"? Two editors (Chris and Mitch Ames) were having a dispute about a different category issue, and decided that getting rid of one category was a solution they could agree on. Two other editors who'd engaged in the discussion about the dispute, but didn't have any particular feelings about the solution, went "meh" and didn't say anything. The category was depopulated, and I thought that was the end of it. Chris then flagged the issue that the solution he'd implemented regarding his dispute with Mitch might have wider implications and asked about the "artists" category and didn't get any responses, which is where I thought it had ended - I've just realised that he went on and depopulated that too (which was a bad idea) but nonetheless. You've just gone nuclear on me and threatened sanctions (!) even though I don't have any strong opinions on the matter (besides thinking that the depopulation was a bad idea) and am just trying to resolve the issue. Perhaps that might be a sign that it's a good idea to take a step back. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Drover's Wife: so you don't retract your smears against DuncanHill. On your head be it. Face-sad.svg
As to stepping back, since your idea of trying to resolve the issue is smearing the editor who opened this discussion to try to uphold established process, i suggest that you take your own advice.
Your comments on the substance are more interesting. You seem to be saying that the AWNB discussion did NOT in fact establish even a local consensus to depopulate any category, and that what actually happened was that two editors made a decision without seeking wider input ... and then User:Chris.sherlock unilaterally decided to do the same to a whole bunch of other categories. If so, then Chris.sherlock's claims about a decision at AWNB are baloney ... and if you genuinely want to resolve this (rather than just repeatedly smearing DuncanHill), you should be asking Chris to promptly self-revert his unilateral actions. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 00:04, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The noticeboard discussion is right there on the board, it isn't a long conversation, and having read it to begin with might have prevented a lot of incorrect assumptions that've been made about how this mess happened to begin with. Two editors were trying to resolve a dispute, they thought they'd found a solution without realising the broader fallout, and because Chris forgot that it needed go to WP:CFD that didn't get flagged before the shit hit the fan. It's not exactly news (including to Duncan, given their history) that Chris gets stressed and doesn't exactly react the best way when people go nuclear on him. There's still an obvious solution: undo the depopulation, talk out the content issue without the aggro, and if anyone still thinks that's the best way forward (which I think is unlikely following a calmer conversation) then it can go back to WP:CFD. Problem solved, no drama necessary. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:20, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did not "go nuclear" on anyone, again please stop your insinuations and misrepresentations. I used an edit summary to point out WP:CFD, I raised it appropriately on Chris's talk page, and only after his "nuclear" response of threatening me with Arbcom did I come here. I'm glad you agree with me that repopulation and WP:CFD are the correct thing to do. DuncanHill (talk) 00:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) @The Drover's Wife: Sheesh, you are still at it. Stop trying to blame DuncanHill for Chris.sherlock's anger management issues. If Chris can't handle the normal rules of engagement here, that doesn't mean he should get a license to go on a rampage.
Multiple editors asked Chris to stop. He ignored them.
DuncanHill asked Chris to stop. He was rebuffed with a threat and a bogus allegation of harassment.
Then Duncan quite properly took this to ANI, where he made a well-formed and well-founded complaint, free of hyperbole.
Your decision to describe this as other editors deciding to go nuclear on Chris is not just nonsense; it is a blatant fabrication which inverts the reality of a gentle and civil escalation which followed the proper procedures. The only nuclear response has been from you and Chris, who have repeatedly tried to smear and malign Duncan for acting entirely properly. That's thoroughly nasty conduct by you, for which you should be sanctioned.
It seems that you now agree with the substance of the objections to Chris's conduct, and that you are trying to help Chris to climb down gently. But the honourable way to do that is to engage privately with Chris ... but instead you have chosen to be an attack dog against Duncan. That doesn't help Chris, and it does't help the community to resolve this issue; you are just pouring petrol on Chris's self-started fire. Round my way, that's called shit-stirring. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 00:41, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is not constructive and I'm not engaging with it. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At last, we can agree: your repeated smearing of the messenger is thoroughly unconstructive. I hope that your latest post means that are now going to stop it.. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Observations by BrownHairedGirl

(TLDR: categories emptied and tagged for speedy-deletion in a flagrant abuse of process, ignoring established consensus, and with none of the characteristics of proper consensus-formation. There should be mass-reverts).
The issues here are:
  • Substance: The impact of WP:EGRS on the categories concerned
  • Process: how and where the community makes a decision about that.
My thoughts:
Substance
It seems that Chris.sherlock has depopulated many of the subcats of Category:Australian women by occupation. I choose as an example Category:Australian women writers.
Category:Women writers is a well-developed category tree, with subcategory trees by format, by historical period (including by century), by nationality.
Note that the intersection between nationality and century is well-categorised: see the Category:Women writers by century, where there are 105 subcategory trees of women-by-nationality-century, e.g. Category:American women writers by century and Category:Irish women writers by century:
Of that set of 105, Category:Australian women writers by century is now empty.
There have been many discussions about these categories over the years, some large and heated. most notably WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 April 24#Category:American_women_novelists which arose out of a huge media storm (I think it even got as far as the New York Times). The solution agreed 7 years ago has remained stable since, and avoids ghettoising women writers (per WP:EGRS#General item 5).
Process
For as long as I have been editing en.wp (since early 2006), decisions on whether to delete a category have been made at WP:CFD. This is a community-wide noticeboard like the other XFD processes (AFD, TFD, MFD, MFD), all of which share these five characteristics:
  1. all pages being discussed are tagged with a clear link to the discussion. That way, any editor who has watchlisted the page or who visits it can see that discussion is happening.
  2. the discussion is at central location, where all similar locations are listed on a daily log, and indexed in various ways. That allows any editor interested in this type of discussion to scan the list and decide whether to offer their input.
  3. the tagging is picked up by the WP:Article alerts system, which generates notifications for any WikiProject which has placed its banner on the talk page of the article concerned
  4. the discussion remains open for at least 7 days
  5. the discussion is closed by an uninvolved editor according to established guidelines.
This Australian case
In this case, there was a discussion at WP:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#Australian_women_categories, which had none of those five characteristics: no tagging of the pages under discussion; discussion not at one of the central XFD venues; no article alerts; discussion lasted only about one day before categories were depopulated in a long series of edits by User:Chris.sherlock: see the relevant contribs[242].
This is outrageous. A significant category tree has been removed by discussion between only 4 editors, without using any of the established processes, and with zero notification. Editors who monitor WP:CFD will be unaware of this discussion; worst of all Wikipedia:WikiProject Women writers had no indication.
It should be mass-reverted, and if anyone wants to pursue this idea, then they should use the established process: WP:CFD.
In addition, sanctions should be considered against User:Chris.sherlock, whose statements are repeatedly problematic:
  • Counterfactual assertion: [243] in Australia we don’t have an occupation of “Australian women writers”. Fact: scholarly sources disagree: see e.g. 128 hits on JSTOR for "Australian women writers". This is important per WP:EGRS#Special_subcategories: "the basic criterion for such a category is whether the topic has already been established as academically or culturally significant by external sources". There is at least a prima facie case that scholars do find this a significant topic.
  • WP:OWNership and a rejection of WP:LOCALCON: It appears a few uninvolved parties have decided that we, as a bunch of Australians, don't know how to structure categories around Australia. They have been reverting the changes we agreed on. WikiProjects do not own the articles within their scope, and there is absolutely no basis in policy for Chris.sherlock's view that these decisions should be made only by a group of Australian editors with zero notification ... and it is especially disruptive to try to assert some sort of nationalist basis for a decision, to the exclusion of e.g. WP:WikiProject Women writers, who editors would likely have something to say about this.
  • WP:LOCALCON rejection of WP:EGRS: [244] The issue is that we don't want Australian women + occupation. That's appalling: "we" in this case is 4 editors who have made decided at WP:AWNB#Australian_women_categories that all the nuances set out in WP:EGRS and applied by long discussions at CFD over many years, with broad community input, can be overridden for Australia by 4 editors in an un-notified huddle with zero evidence to support the dogmatic assertion of Australian exceptionalism.
I am also horrified by Chris.sherlock' hostile responses to User:DuncanHill, who has quite properly being trying to uphold long-established process.
I suggest a mass reversion of Chris.sherlock's recent categorisation edits. Crating and populating these categories has involved many many hours of work by many editors over a decade or more. It is outrageous that they have been depopulated on the basis of unividenced assertions by a small group who appear to reject both a long-established guideline and the established consensus-forming processes. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This move came out of an ill-advised compromise attempt in relation to an entirely different category issue discussed at WP:AWNB and (unwisely) rapidly implemented in an attempt (which, as one of those "four editors" I expressed no opinion on since I vaguely preferred the status quo). I suspect the non-use of WP:CFD by Chris was a more an issue of forgetting the right process, given that he has long been absent from Wikipedia until relatively recently. He's tried to come to a compromise resolution to a dispute with one editor who he was in a disagreement with, and inadvertently stumbled into a wider issue he hadn't been aware of, unintentionally antagonising some other people in the process. As I said above, the instant-nuclear approach here is really unhelpful: he's clearly offended some sensibilities he didn't even know existed, Duncan seems to have some sort of longstanding issue with Chris that is motivating an unduly aggressive response here, and it's easy enough to discuss the issue, undo the depopulation, and take it back to WP:CFD if anyone still thinks that's the right way to proceed. I suspect, with some further discussion, the answer to that last question might be "no", for all the grand accusations of "rejecting long-established guidelines" - he was just trying to find a mutual agreement with a difficult local editor and probably went the wrong way with it. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Drover's Wife: I think you've mistaken the sequence of events. Chris was bold, I reverted, Chris did not discuss but re-reverted. I raised the issue on Chris's talkpage and he told me to go away. It was only then that I came here. There was no "instant nuclear" or "unduly aggressive" response from me. I have consistently said the right thing to do is to go to WP:CFD and frankly that is ALL I want here. Your insinuations about my motivations and mis-representation of my actions are uncalled for. DuncanHill (talk) 23:30, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It seems pretty clear that he told you to go away because you've got some intense prior history (which is clear from your own comments to him if nothing else). This is something that seems to be to be extremely easily resolvable if everyone dials back on the aggro - there's been some misunderstandings in a few different directions, but I don't think there's actually much of an underlying substantive dispute underneath that aggro if people talk it through. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:36, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So when he told me to go away after I asked him to use WP:CFD, and threatened to take me to ArbCom, what do you think I should have done? Nice of you to apologise for misrepresenting my actions, by the way. Oh, you didn't. I think that makes your position rather clearer. DuncanHill (talk) 23:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) @The Drover's Wife: the aggro mostly comes from you and User:Chris.sherlock.
The substantive dispute is about the fact that User:Chris.sherlock has emptied a whole bunch of categories without using the established process (i.e. CFD) ... and that Chris.sherlock ignored requests from multiple editors to stop this. (See e.g. User:14GTR [245]; User:DuncanHill: [246]; User:SlimVirgin (aka SarahSV): [247])
The aggression here consists primarily of User:Chris.sherlock acting outside process, ignoring requests to sop, and asserting some sort of Aussie exceptionalism as justification for doing this. There is secondary aggression from The Drover's Wife, who appears to be trying to gaslight the objectors, and in particular seems to be engaged in a shoddy smear campaign against DuncanHill.
The solution is simple: restore the status quo ante by reverting Chris.sherlock's edits, as DuncanHill was trying to do ... then anyone who wants a change can open a discussion at CFD. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 23:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's the obvious way to proceed, yes - but the general aggro in all directions is making that resolution more difficult. Duncan, you're making the argument that you and Chris probably need an interaction ban (however that be implemented) all for yourself. If you'd stepped back and let someone like SV with less personal history try to deal with this, it probably could've been resolved a whole lot easier for everyone. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am making no such argument, please stop misrepresenting what I have said. DuncanHill (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@The Drover's Wife, please stop your repeated misrepresentations of @DuncanHill. As I noted above, other editors did try to resolve the issue, but Chris brushed them off. So Duncan acted quite properly by taking the issue to ANI.
Your are making repeated efforts to turn the heat on Duncan, and deflect away from User:Chris.sherlock's disruption. DuncanHill has acted entirely properly here, so please stop shooting the messenger. Your persistent smearing of Duncan reinforces the strong impression that you are trying to create trouble for an editor who has done the right thing. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 00:11, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not playing this game. These two editors clearly have a long negative history and great difficulty interacting in a helpful way, which has obviously contributed to this getting unnecessarily messy. This much is obvious from this thread, and lashing out at me for pointing it out doesn't make it any less true an observation. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, The Drover's Wife: throughout this discussion you been playing a nasty game of repeatedly making false accusations against DuncanHill. Duncan has done this by the book, but you are trying to make Duncan responsible for Chris's anger management issues and Chris's repeated dismissals of established process. That is gaslighting, which is a thoroughly nasty practice. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 00:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
These vicious and unwarranted personal attacks at someone whose entire engagement here is to try to solve the content issue and keep Chris and Duncan away from each other are beyond uncalled for. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no personal attack. There is criticism of your vile conduct of repeatedly smearing and mis-repesenting DuncanHill's entirely proper actions. I am alarmed at your bizarre statement that your entire engagement here is to try to solve the content issue, most of all by the possibility that you genuinely and sincerely believe that your sustained smear campaign is an appropriate path to resolution. If you really do think that your repeated false assertions (e.g. that Duncan has gone nuclear by opening an ANI thread when user-talk discussion was rejected, then the problem is significantly more severe than the trolling which I had feared was driving this. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 01:20, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You mischaracterised TDW and cast aspersions. Specifically you wrote “you’ve been playing a nasty game all along”. That’s not assuming good faith and is in fact an attack on their character. You were outraged that I felt DH was bullying and baiting me, now you are making similar statements. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 06:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As I've repeatedly stated, this is an easily resolved content dispute if these moves are reverted, a discussion takes place as whether and how people want to proceed with any category changes and whether it's worth going back to CfD at all (probably not), and, given that it seems unlikely to lead to any positive outcomes based on the above, Duncan and Chris Stop interacting with each other. This is not something that's changed by fifteen rounds of personal attacks on your part: in the end, the category changes still need to get reverted, some sort of discussion about what to do about the categories still needs to take place, and further engagement (on either end) between Duncan and Chris is unlikely to be helpful. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:29, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For goodness sake, this is daft. You have repeatedly smeared Duncan with your bogus allegations ... and now claim that it is a personal attack to ask you to stop making these bogus allegations. WP:NPA is not shield which you can hide behind behind while turning the muckspreader on another editor.
You seem determined to cast this as a personal dispute between Duncan and Chris, but that is demonstrably false. Two other editors had tried unsuccessfully to persuade Chris to desist, and when Duncan became the third editor to object, he was civil and followed all the recommended steps.
Here at ANI, multiple editors have backed Chris'sDuncan's approach, and you are the only editor to try blame Duncan or portray this as a personality clash. Chris's anger management issues are not evidence of misconduct by Duncan, and Duncan's civil and proper attempts to stop Chris's mass disruption are no grounds for requesting that Duncan desist from anything. On the contrary, it is important for the health of the 'pedia that an editor such as Duncan who challenges blatant disruption should be encouraged rather than rebuked. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • List at WP:CfD. CfD is a funny place, but don’t by intimidated. It may appear to be run by a clique, but on examination they are having long running arguments with themselves in jargon. A new clique of four who are agreed on wanting to do something on the categorisation of Australian women might overwhelm the CfD clique. Or, the CfD clique might make an unexpected interesting suggestion on an alternative way of doing things. Bigger picture, CfD needs more diverse participants. This is a categorisation discussion. Everyone interested should go to CfD. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) I'm completely uninvolved with this, but there are two aspects here. 1) A content dispute and 2) a conduct dispute arising from it. The correct way forward regarding the content dispute, according to every policy and guideline I could cite, is to discus it at the appropriate forum. In the case of proposed changes to a category tree that is WP:CFD with notifications on the relevant categories and to relevant WikiProjects. The speedy deletion criterion for empty categories explicitly only applies to categories that have been empty for 7 days. All speedy deletion criteria apply only to uncontroversial cases, when there is a good faith objection from an uninvolved editor that means it is not uncontroversial, even more so from multiple uninvolved users. Making edits for the sole purpose of making a page or pages qualify for a speedy deletion criterion it otherwise not do is also against very long standing practice and consensus (I've been around CSD for the best part of 15 years and it predates my involvement). So the status quo ante should be restored and matters discussed at CFD (to make it clear I have no preference about the relevant categories, but whether they are kept, deleted or anything else needs to be decided by a wide consensus). Relevant policies and guidelines include WP:FAITACCOMPLI, WP:BRD and WP:EW.
    Regarding the content dispute, I'm frankly appalled by the behaviour of Chris.Sherlock - new editors have been indeffed for far less than this, so for an experienced editor to behave in this manner is frankly atrocious and at the very least needs a final warning that any more edit warring, personal attacks or refusal to engage in discussion will result in blocks. Drovers Wife should be strongly warned that their behaviour here is also inappropriate. I'm not sure if they are intentionally attempting to gaslight other editors, but based on the evidence presented here I cannot rule it out. I don't know Duncan Hill's history, but I see no evidence in this dispute of them harassing anybody or violating content policies with regards to these categories. Thryduulf (talk) 00:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree fully with BrownHairedGirl. Emptying a category without discussion and then proposing that the category should be deleted is the height of circumventing the proper and transparent process for disputing the existence of a category. Edits to that effect should be mass-reverted so that the requisite discussion can take place. BD2412T 00:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree with both of you the content issue (though I do think it was a case of not remembering the proper process rather than intentionally trying to subvert anything). @Thryduulf:, as an editor who hasn't interacted with anyone else in this thread besides Chris before, I formed opinions of the behaviour I've seen in the above thread - threatening editors for coming to a different conclusion about the behaviour of others and suggesting that they de-escalate said behaviour is completely inappropriate. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @The Drover's Wife: ANI is not a public pillory where the complainant is restrained wile everyone is encouraged to hurl manure at them.
        DuncanHill did this by the book, but you have repeatedly smeared him without offering any evidence of the alleged misconduct.
        The sequence of events was simple: 1/ Chris made an edit which Duncan contested as being out-of-process. 2/ Duncan reverted it. 3/ Chris undid the revert. 4/ Duncan posted on Chris's talk politely asking Chris to stop and use CFD, becoming th third editor to make such a request; 5/ Chris dismisses the substance, refuses further discussion, and makes a threat; 6/ Duncan quite properly takes the matter to ANI.
        For that you repeatedly monstered Duncan, and falsely accused him of going nuclear both here at ANI and on Chris's talk. That is outrageous behavior: an editor who properly uses the dispute-resolution processes should not be subject to this sort of repeated smear.
        As to your claim that was a case of not remembering the proper process rather than intentionally trying to subvert anything ... that too is easily disproven. Before this even came to ANI, no less than three editors had posted on Chris's talk asking Chris to use CFD. And then when it came to CFD, Chris still didn't listen, and instead make an unevidenced (and apparently bogus) allegation of harassment. Not remembering doesn't describe repeatedly rejecting reminders from highly-experienced editors.--BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 01:39, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks BHG. Deletion must follow proper procedures and opinions expressed at a wikiproject are irrelevant. I propose to block anyone who continues depopulating categories as part of this process without first getting consensus at WP:CfD as explained above. Johnuniq (talk) 01:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with BrownHairedGirl's observations and her proposed remedies. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:12, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Me too. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 03:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I, too, agree with BrownHairedGirl's observations and proposed remedies. MargaretRDonald (talk) 06:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I too agree with BrownHairedGirl's assessment of the situation, and am perplexed by The Drover's Wife's repeated defenses of Chris.sherlock's misbehavior. The theory seems to be that Chris took a long wikibreak and cannot be expected to be familiar with the proper procedures. I guess Chris edited under different accounts in the past but under their current username, they have accumulated 6500 edits in the last eight months so are not exactly a newbie. But even if Chris was a fresh newbie back from a multi-year wikibreak so long that it impaired his memory, any reasonable person would hit the pause button when not one, not two but three editors informed him that the procedure was wrong and helpfully pointed them to the correct venue. But Chris chose to forge ahead with his "aggro" as they say in The Land Down Under, and TDW chose to function as Chris's chief enabler and excuse writer. BHG has explained quite concisely and articulately the reasons why CfD is the proper place to discuss these issues. That advice is so crystal clear that it is a mystery why this disagreement continues. I guess some people just enjoy arguing, even if it reflects poorly on them. Cullen328Let's discuss it 03:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Chris has well-known mental health issues that means he doesn't always deal with stress and conflict terribly well when he feels attacked, but has long proven perfectly capable of resolving stuff easily and getting on with things if cooler heads prevail and sort things out. These attacks on me ("chief enabler", "excuse writer") are completely unfair for trying to do three things: a) resolve this absolute mess of a content dispute that sprung up overnight, b) try and clarify how it happened because there has been a lot of misconceptions about how it did, and c) keep Chris around as an editor who does some great work as long as people step up and mediate these situations every now and then. No one in this thread is arguing that WP:CFD was the appropriate place to discuss these issues, and I'm not sure why you've suggested I'm arguing with that when I've repeatedly said otherwise from the get-go. Most of this blew up overnight Australian time and Chris hasn't edited this morning, but I have great doubt that Chris, having slept on it, would want to "forge ahead" either. The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • 1/ Chris's mental health issues are zero justification whatsoever for The Drover's Wife to run a lengthy smear campaign against DuncanHill, who has acted entirely properly throughout.
        2/ Chris's ability to handle any mental health issues is undermined by TDW's efforts to distort his perception of reality through TDW's repeated false claims that Duncan "went nuclear" on him. That's a very destructive thing to do, both for Chris and for the community, because it reduces the chances that Chris will learn the lesson that he screwed up big-time and increases the chance that he will develop an unjustified sense of paranoia.
        3/ Three cool heads did prevail, on the talk page; @14GTR, SlimVirgin, and DuncanHill. Other cool heads have prevailed at CFD. The hothead is The Drover's Wife, whose first contribution to this ANI thread (at 22:57[248]) was an attack on the conduct of DuncanHill as an unwarranted and aggressive escalation that clearly seems to be motivated by some longstanding personal history. TDW repeatedly claims to be trying to cool things, but is consistently acting in ways that are straight out of playbook of trolls such the old alt.syntax.tactical crew from the 1990s.
        4/ TDW's statement No one in this thread is arguing that WP:CFD was the appropriate place to discuss these issues, and I'm not sure why you've suggested I'm arguing with that when I've repeatedly said otherwise from the get-go is yet another TDW falsehood. TDW's first comment to this ANI thread (at 22:57[249]) did not mention CFD, and instead focused on the attacks on Duncan.
        By doubling down on aggressive falsehoods, TDW is not just disrupting ANI, but also is deploying a well-documented technique for screwing with the mental health of two editors. That conduct deserves sanctions. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 04:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • These accusations of gaslighting because I dared to have a different opinion of how this has played out are malicious, unfounded and disgraceful. This is a level of abuse that in a workplace context would lead to a complaint to HR for workplace bullying, and for a manager would lead to calling in the union, and it is not fair to expect volunteers to put up with it. My continual effort here has been to try to resolve this mess, explain how it went down (BrownHairedGirl repeatedly falsely accused me and Gnangarra of having something to do with the original decision until I had to continually point out otherwise), and do my level best to defuse it, and at every turn I've been met with an absolute barrage of personal attacks from someone who's already been subject to Arbitration Committee findings for bullying once before. Can we get on with trying to find a generally agreeable way forward out of this mess now? Or am I going to have to face another five, ten, fifteen of these rounds of personal abuse because I dared have a different view? The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • The Drover's Wife, once again I sincerely hope that you don't really believe any of that, and that hope that you are consciously fabricating it all for some reason … because if you really don't recognise what you have been doing, it will be hard for you to stop.
            I stand by my observations about your gaslighting conduct, and would be delighted to defend them against any lawyers or unions or managers — or Arbcom, if you prefer. You made a series of allegations against DuncanHill of misconduct and bad faith, and throughout the whole process you offered zero evidence for any of them. On the contrary, DuncanHill scrupulously followed the BRD cycle … yet you have been repeatedly bullying him with bogus allegations of misconduct, including twice accusing him of going nuclear. In any workplace, DuncanHill would have a strong case against you not only for your sustained workplace bullying, but a civil law case for aggravated defamation.
            It is a sad reflection of the times we are in that there no great novelty in your decision to be a serial bully and then complain that being asked to stop your bullying makes you a victim. Sadly, that sort of reality distortion is not new to our times; it visible on much more prominent stages. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 05:41, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with Bhg, Thryduulf Johnuniq & User:BD2412. These blatent abuses of procedure are too easy to get away with, and need to be stamped on hard. Johnbod (talk) 03:58, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • bigger issue<ec> Chris has wrongly been singled out here, the issue arose because of one long time disruptive editor who never does enough to get banned. The editor has a long history of attacking outreach projects, of acting as pedant even when it shown his knowledge of the subject matter isnt consistent with that of reality and of making unique interpretations of policy. Unfortunately too many editors are have wasted to much time working civilly with an editor who has had a chilling effect on contributions. Chris did jump too early in the discussion as it hadnt been full clarified but the reason was the problematic user had given the change a green light. There is nothing that says a person cant change categories, and what decision happen with relation to US novelist has nothing to with Australian writers they two different groups both culturally and practically, the under lying issue being women writers being an occupation which it isnt becuase it characteristic of the person not the occupation. My apologies to @Chris.sherlock: for not being aware of this discussion and defending his actions earlier. Gnangarra 04:22, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Gnangarra is just doubling down on TDW's follies.
    The fact that a problematic user had given the change a green light is zero justification for bypassing CFD. No one editor has any right to give such a green light.
    Gnangarra says There is nothing that says a person cant change categories. Wrong. Here's para 1 of the lead of WP:CFD:
  • Categories for discussion (CfD) is the central venue for discussing specific proposals to delete, merge, rename or split categories and stub types in accordance with the guidelines for categorization, category naming and stub articles.

    . Emptying categories out-of-process has long been treated as disruption.
    Gnangarra's writes goobledygook; what decision happen with relation to US novelist has nothing to with Australian writers they two different groups both culturally and practically, the under lying issue being women writers being an occupation which it isn't because it characteristic of the person not the occupation.. Insofar as any sense can be made of that, Gnangarra seems arguing that despite writing in a shared language, no decision made about American writers can have any relevance at all to Australian writers. This assertion is made with zero evidence, and no mention of the guideline WP:EGRS. It would have taken only a few seconds for Gnangarra to go to Category:Women writers by nationality and see that there are 105 by-nationality subcats. The claim that Australia is somehow unique amongst those 105 nationalities is an extreme proposition which needs proper discussion.
    With friends like this, Chris.sherlock doesn't need enemies. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was going to post to agree with what BrownHairedGirl has written, until I noticed a post that confused me. BrownHairedGirl, in this post, you wrote, in addressing The Drover's Wife: "Here at ANI, multiple editors have backed Chris's approach, and you are the only editor to try blame Duncan or portray this as a personality clash." Do you really mean that Chris' approach has been backed here at ANI by multiple editors, because this seems to me to contradict what you have written and the comments that I have been reading? Is meant to say "... multiple editors have backed Duncan's approach ..."? Because if it is, you might want to make a correction, and if it isn't, then I'm confused and would appreciate an explanation of your reasoning. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 05:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EdChem, yes that was a typo: I did indeed mean "Duncan's approach". Thanks for spotting it; now fixed.[250] --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:23, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Assuming that BHG's post is in error and means that Duncan has support here at ANI, then I have to say that my reading of the situation is entirely consistent with the majority of editors who have commented. It seems clear that:
    • The local "consensus" from the WP:AWNB discussion is neither strong enough to justify the category depopulation that has occurred, nor did it address the broader consensus that existed (and probably still exists). The suggestion that (to paraphrase) Australians know best about Australian categories strikes me as awfully parochial for an international project like Wikipedia, and I write that as an Australian. The lack of consultation with a WikiProject who could weigh in on the gendered aspect of the issue is particularly disturbing, more so than the disinclination to consult with those with expertise in WP categorisation or with WP coverage of writers, but all of these groups would obviously have perspectives that should be considered in making any decision.
    • Consequently, the actions taken by Chris to depopulate the categories should be reverted in their entirety, either by Chris or by someone with the appropriate tools for mass reversions.
    • Chris and others from the AWNB can then decide if they want to leave the status quo as it was or start a proper discussion at WP:CfD in search of a proper consensus on how to address the concerns that led to the AWNB thread.
    • Duncan acted entirely reasonably, as far as I can see – reverting an edit that seemed unjustified, seeking a discussion, and asking that an edit war not be continued. Given the past history, maybe it would have been wiser for Duncan to ask a neutral admin to post to Chris on Duncan's behalf, but that does not mean that Duncan did anything either inconsistent with policy or reasonable WP behaviour.
    • Chris.sherlock, you have over-reacted here, both in threatening ArbCom and since. The Drover's Wife has posted here to defend you, but has run into the problem that the facts that can be established and supported with diffs do not support the position being advanced. In this thread, Duncan has offered to stay out of any ensuing CfD discussion, which is a reasonable offer made in hope of separating personal conflict from the content issues here. Chris and The Drover's Wife, if you both want to avoid any nastier outcomes from this ANI thread that a sternly worded warning, I urge you both to stop commenting on Duncan, reflect on the situation with consensus on WP and take note of the detailed information about WP categories that BHG has provided, and move towards a resolution of the content questions.
    • Chris, I also recognise that editing WP can be stressful and accept that you have medical circumstances that can make it difficult to make the wisest choices in personal interactions at times. That's ok, we all make mistakes and these can arise in plenty of ways. However, you need to be able to reflect when it is suggested that you are heading in an unwise direction and to change direction if you see that the advice is good. Please, recognise now that this situation has got much more heated than it needed to and that you need to act to redirect it in a more productive direction. You may have a bad history with Duncan, and the situation may have triggered difficult and powerful issues for you, but Duncan has not acted in an unreasonable way in asking you to stop implementing the AWNB decision and hold a wider discussion. Please, as an uninvolved editor who generally avoids issues around categories, consider my input that your actions were hasty and need to be reverted, and the issue considered again with broader input.
    • The Drover's Wife, I recognise your motivation in trying to protect and support Chris given his condition, but your actions are not helping. You are managing to portray yourself as not only partisan, but as unable to recognise the facts revealed by the diffs, that Duncan has acted reasonably. Please: stop, reflect, and seek a way to help and support Chris that does not require reflecting on Duncan or casting aspersions. Helping and supporting Chris is good, and what you have written on the content issue seems ok, so I ask that you stop commenting on conduct before you find yourself in a worse position than you are in currently.
    • EdChem (talk) 05:06, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • For the record, I dropped that particular stick (with DuncanHill) a while ago given Duncan having backed off during the day, and, as you cite, the reasonable offer not to engage. I don't think it was the wisest way to bring it up given their history, but it's increasingly obvious that it's small fry in the scheme of this mess, and given that I'd rather try to de-escalate things, there's nothing to be gained from arguing it further. It still doesn't excuse the absolutely off-the-scale level of personal attacks from BrownHairedGirl. Having said that, I'll bow out now - and probably would have earlier if it hadn't been for some of the ugliest and most uncalled-for abuse I've ever received in all my many years on Wikipedia. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Since TDW still describes as "personal attacks" the repeated requests of multiple editors to stop running a smear campaign, TDW is wise to drop out of this discussion. I still hope that they will be sanctioned for their appalling conduct. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 05:21, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Those twenty-odd diffs of extraordinary abuse for having a different take than you were not a "request", you are beyond out of line and you are engaging in now precisely the same type of behaviour that lead to arbitration findings regarding your bullying conduct and your subsequent desysopping. They say "the standard you walk past is the standard you accept"; whether other people will walk past it this time, when you're targeting someone with less clout than those who led to your desysopping, is up to them. Now I'm genuinely out. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • Go to Arbcom if you want to. You are entitled to take a different view; you are not entitled to make repeated bogus allegations with no evidence, and to assert without evidence or qualification that Duncan acted in bad faith, as you did in your opening post (at 22:57[251]). You have had ample opportunity to strike and retract those bogus allegations, but you haven't.
              I stand by all that I have written about your disgraceful campaign of bullying, smearing, and misrepresenting DuncanHill, who has followed the advised procedures to the letter. Your continued attempt to cast yourself as a victim of bullying is just more gaslighting, and sadly you seem to be completely unware of the fact that multiple other editors have also criticised your sustained misconduct here. --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 05:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • (edit conflict) TDW, stopping casting aspersions against Duncan is good... withdrawing them would have been better. But, changing to casting aspersions against BHG as you have done is really bad. Your behaviour is well outside the bounds of being acceptable, your characterisation of BHG as having engaged in "absolutely off-the-scale level of personal attacks" that are "some of the ugliest and most uncalled-for abuse I've ever received in all my many years on Wikipedia" is hyperbolic and unsupported by the comments that BHG has actually made in this ANI thread. I believe you should withdraw your inaccurate and unfair descriptions of BHG, and I believe that a sanction is justified if you are unwilling to walk back your rhetoric. EdChem (talk) 05:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • I'm entirely serious when I say it's "some of the ugliest and most uncalled-for abuse I've ever received in all my many years on Wikipedia". I've made tens of thousands of edits, worked with thousands of editors, I've dealt with countless conflict situations over many years, but this is quite seriously in a league of its own. If we were in a corporate or more normal organisational context, I'd have filed a formal complaint about her behaviour in a heartbeat, because I know of no other organisation where it would be tolerated. If the situations were reversed and Chris, myself, Gnangarra or anyone else who has disagreed with BrownHairedGirl had spoken to her in the way that she has spoken to us, I have no doubt she would have been banned here, now, today - and yet drastically tamer comments have been met with threats for speaking up, despite my being completely on board from the get-go with the consensus resolution to the content dispute held by most people here. If there is an attitude that this behaviour is acceptable, whether just because she's someone with a lot of political clout, whether because Chris having made a bit of a mess of things is seen to excuse literally anything, or whether the project culture when it comes to well-known editors has completely lost the plot since I last noticed, this is not something I'm going to play a part in. You've helped lead to an editor of many years standing, many thousands of edits, and more articles than I could count finally calling it a day. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                • Wow. TDH make repeated bogus allegations of misconduct and bad faith against DuncanHill, whose conduct in this issue has been exemplary. Nobody backs TDH. Plenty of people tell TDH to stop.
                  Yet TDH hears none of it, casts themselves as a "victim" of "bullying" when the only bullying has been by TDH … and now claims to have been driven out by a culture which refuses to endorse TDH's smear campaign. Are we in an Ingmar Bergman film? --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 08:48, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                  • The abuse you meted out to TDW was incredible. I'm appalled by your behaviour. The ArbCom was right to have desysopped you. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 16:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                • It's pretty amazing that TDW would sooner quit the website than apologize to Duncan for the repeated misrepresentations. ... or whether the project culture when it comes to well-known editors has completely lost the plot since I last noticed – Yes, they're no longer allowed to do whatever the hell they want, but I call this finding the plot, not losing it. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 13:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure that rhetoric like "vile" and "disgraceful" is very helpful, but aside from that it does seem that BHG's analysis of the situation is correct. Reyk YO! 08:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I absolutely agree with BHG's assessment of the situation - Chris needs to read up on the procedure for deleting categories and TDW needs to look at the facts before defending Chris. And yes, I did try to fix the damage that Chris caused. MiasmaEternalTALK 08:44, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also (naturally, given the above exchange I had the misfortune to enjoy) support BHG's analysis of the overall issue, as I do Thryduulf's assessmernt of Chris.sherlock's behaviour and the likely consequences to them should it continue. By extension, I welcome Johnuniq's assurances in that regard. Although i first joined this discussion willing to see positives and negatives on both "sides", Chris.sherlock's exchange with me demonstrates at best gaslighting, at worse, trolling: when I plainly assert that "policy trumps guideline", I don't expect to be told that I am accusing anyone of "overturning policy". ——SN54129 12:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's not actually what you stated. You quoted the policy that consensus does not trump policy, which states that consensus should not overturn policy. Unless I have entirely missed something (and I repeatedly asked you to clarify) I wanted to know what policy I had violated. You chose not to respond. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:28, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, I chose not to be trolled, as I so choose now. ——SN54129 15:32, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm sorry I caused you to feel that way, I was not trying to troll you. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let us go back to the point

Irrespectively of who presumably was allegedly harassing whom, emptying categories (definitely emptying long existent categories, I am not not talking of categories created purely for vandalism or to push POV without any discussion) is not acceptable. If anyone wants to change the existing category structure, they must go to CFD. If a user has been pointed out to this fact but continues to empty categories out of process, their participation in Wikipedia must be restricted. I do not actually understand why this is at all being discussed. The category must be restored and nominated for CFD. I am sure if there is a Wiiproject behind the change they will be able to come up with good arguments to convince other users.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't wish to get into who attacked whom, etc, I'm certainly not engaging in the walls of text above, and I have no preferences for any specific category structure. But I just want to offer three opinions:
  • Thryduulf is correct on the use of CSD.
  • BrownHairedGirl is correct on the use of CFD for proposing the removal of category trees.
  • Ymblanter is correct about the proper action now being to restore the status quo ante and seek consensus at CFD.
Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:36, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What both those above me said. The interpersonal disputes are irrelevant to the central question here, which is "does a WikiProject have the ability unlaterally to declare those articles in its scope as exempt from Wikipedia's broader policies and guidelines?". We've been here before—most notoriously with infoboxes and with Wikidata—and the answer is always going to be the same; the only time a local consensus can override a global consensus is when there's a global consensus to allow the local project autonomy on a particular issue. "Ignore all rules" doesn't translate as a license for anyone to do whatever they want regardless of objections. ‑ Iridescent 09:02, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Concur with Iridescent, Ymblanter, Boing! said Zebedee. Repopulate all categories emptied out of process, and take them to cfd (or leave them alone). Oculi (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Chris.sherlock

After reviewing the comments from a number of people who I know and respect, and a number of others who I don't know, it appears I have made a very bad error in judgement. I should have taken these to CSD, and not assumed that because we had discussed the categories on WP:AWNB it was fine to make the category changes. For this, I must apologise in particular to 14GTR. In all honesty, I didn't realise how central to the overarching category structure these were, and frankly I should have listened to you. This was also an error in judgement.

I will not apologise, however, for my assertions that DuncanHill is someone I want very little to do with, and someone who I avoid at all costs. I have now made it absolutely clear on my user talk page that I am requesting he not contact me - I have actually asked him not to do this on many occassions so I decided to make this as clear as possible. He is the only editor I have ever felt I need to formally advise to leave me alone in this manner.

In terms of what BrownHairedGirl has said, it appears she would like me to be indefinitely blocked. I am happy to be taken to ArbCom over this matter, and will accept whatever punishment they feel is necessary. I am hoping I won't be indefinitely blocked as I have a lot of articles I want to write for WP:WiR.

Finally, I would like to say some words about a few people who came to my defense. In particular, I am concerned that The Drover's Wife is being unfairly targetted and attacked, probably because of my ill-advised actions. In fact, TDW has made it clear she doesn't think my actions were correct. She has not objected to the categories being restored. I am absolutely dismayed that BrownHairedGirl asserted that she was "playing a nasty game of repeatedly making false accusations against DuncanHill", as I don't see she ever did this but did comment on the adversarial relationship the two of us have. I'm also deeply troubled that BHG accussed TDW of gaslighting, when I see no evidence of this at all. I also find it troubling that BHG responded to TDW that "I hope that you are consciously fabricating it all for some reason", which was unwarranted and unfair.

I would also like to say how troubled I am that BHG told one of our Australian contributors, Gnangarra that he "writes goobledygook", which whilst is not a racial slur, is a fairly vile way of speaking about another editor who didn't make any personal attacks and just expressed their opinion on this forum. I am absolutely amazed that BHG thinks that it is OK to write that "With friends like this, Chris.sherlock doesn't need enemies." That's an egregious personal attack, and in the ArbCom findings against her this sort of thing was particularly highlighted.

I would like to see BHG apologise to both The Drover's Wife and Gnangarra, regardless of what happens to myself. the way BHG went after my fellow Australian editors was vicious and uncalled for. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:35, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Without prejudice to the rest of your statement, I'd challenge anyone to describe what decision happen with relation to US novelist has nothing to with Australian writers they two different groups both culturally and practically, the under lying issue being women writers being an occupation which it isn't because it characteristic of the person not the occupation as anything other than gobbledygook. It's not any kind of personal attack, let alone racism, to point out that a sentence is completely incomprehensible. ‑ Iridescent 14:42, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it's not well known, but in fact that word is actually an insult in that it means that they believe the person is making the sounds of a turkey (I had to look this up, I knew it was insulting but not why). It's inflammatory language and a direct insult, and if you disagree with Gnangarra's position or don't understand it then it would be best to simply say that you don't agree, you think their position is not valid, or you don't understand what they are saying. Interestingly, you didn't tell me that my assertion was "gobbledygook", you said it was "incomprehensible".
For what it's worth, I completely agree with Gnangarra. It's not at all incomprehensible that the intrinsic characteristic of being a writer is not one's gender. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I want to thank BHG for responding to my ping and very clearly explaining the technical/content-related stuff. That portion now seems to be completely resolved, after Chris' latest comment. I'm sad to see so many people on both sides venting so much bile. I don't think demanding apologies from anyone is going to help right now, as everyone appears to be convinced God Is On Their Side, morally if not content-wise. I also don't think it's useful to spend days arguing whether the consensus of ANI denizens is that Side A is 35.4% at fault for the bile, or 64.6% at fault. So I suggest someone close this; sometimes sweeping stuff under the rug is the best, albeit imperfect, solution. I would, but I've commented. Until that happens, please consider not picking at scabs. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:51, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you Floquenbeam. I want to make it clear that I am not expecting to escape any sanctions. I believe BHG would like me to be indefinitely blocked from editing, I hope this won't be the case but if someone believes I should be taken to ArbCom I will accept this. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 14:53, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have decided to refer myself to ArbCom, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Review of actions of Chris.sherlock.. Whilst I realise some will consider this to be a time sink, I unfortunately am going on a potentially extended wikibreak and will be unable to rectify the category changes I made. As there has been some suggestion I be sanctioned, to the point where it was suggested it should be indefinite blocked, I decided that I should probably have my actions reviewed by an impartial body in an environment that has less conflict than here. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 15:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chris.sherlock's misuse of their userpage to make a prominent personal attack

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This is a piece minor fallout from the mass-emptying of categories thread which was closed earlier today[252].

Chris.sherlock (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) posted yesterday on their talk page a header note asking DuncanHill (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to refrain from posting on their talk page.[253] That post is still there as of now.[254]

Such a request is fine in principle, subject to the constraints of WP:NOBAN. What isn't fine is that Chris.sherlock has chosen to use that notice to mount a personal attack against DuncanHill, alleging your vendetta against at me. No evidence is offered of the existence of any such "vendetta".

Per WP:NPA and WP:POLEMIC, the is an improper use of a userpage. If Chris.sherlock genuinely believes that they have been subject to a "vendetta" by another editor, they should assemble the evidence and use the appropriate dispute resolution channels. However, it is not acceptable to place what appears to be a permanent notice making such an allegation, without having that allegation subject to scrutiny.

Note that in the ANI thread about the mass-emptying of categories, Chris.sherlock alleged that DuncanHill was harassing Chris,[255]. No evidence was offered there in support of the allegation.

Nonetheless, the allegation was helpfully investigated by User:Serial Number 54129, who posted[256] that they had found no WP:HARASSment going on; [257] including this very discussion, you've only edited the same pages in the same month eight times—and of those, on five occasions DH was the first to post. And of course at least one of those edits—to your talk page—was an official requirement over and above the allowance made to editors per WP:NOBAN.

So the allegation appears to be a groundless smear against DuncanHill in retaliation for DH quite properly raising a concern about Chris.sherlock's massively disruptive conduct (the complaint was upheld, and even Chris.sherlock has grudgingly acknowledged that they were wrong not to use CFD). I posted about this[258] on Chris.sherlock's talk, but they did not even acknowledge my comment.

Please can some admin remove the allegation, and remind Chris.sherlock not to make unsubstantiated allegations? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

BrownHairedGirl, I could write a lot but I will instead just say that I don't think this is "striv[ing] to be excellent to each other." to quote xeno quoting Bill and Ted. Consider how energy could perhaps be better spent in that way. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:53, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Barkeep49, is that a comment about my post here, or about Chris.sherlock's talkpage notice? --BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (contribs) 23:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've removed the note. Let's call it a day, shall we? --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would very much rather not participate in this thread. Not for my own sake. DuncanHill (talk) 00:06, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Roomba racial slur vandalism

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Roomba has racial slur vandalism in this edit. --Bamyers99 (talk) 19:44, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Natureium reverted, and I've revdel'd and blocked the IP. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:50, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Roomba racial slur vandalism??? The mind boggles. EEng 04:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive single purpose account at ImeIme Umana

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Already blocked. Nothing more to do here. (non-admin closure) buidhe 04:36, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

At ImeIme Umana (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) an account called Umana stolemoney (talkcontribsdeleted contribsnuke contribslogsfilter logblock userblock log) is persistently adding BLP violations to the article, including claims she is related to a criminal with the same surname (unverified) and how at school she did not work rather than blatantly blame institutional racism for all of their woes. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say someone with that username editing that article isn't here in good faith. FDW777 (talk) 22:30, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree; blocked indefinitely. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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SPA tags on people that disagree with you

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Recently BD2412 went though and mass tagged SeriousIndividuals on Talk:Joe Biden here. This was reverted by SeriousIndividuals and then re-added by Muboshgu here citing Nope. Tag is appropriate. Added by an admin. After some discussion on Muboshgu's talk page I removed the tags here citing reverting challenged unhelpful tag shaming by opposition. Please stop edit warring over a user essay. which was immediately reverted by AzureCitizen here saying revert removal of valid WP:SPA tags. My issue is that the tags server no purpose other than tag shamming the individual and that it was inappropriate for BD2412 to go though and tag someone that they disagree with and has had previous issues with the Joe Biden pages in general shown here. Even per {{Single-purpose account}}, a comment should not be dismissed merely because it comes from a new account so if the tags are objected to why edit war them in? If there is a concern they are a sock, take them to SPI, otherwise it is not helpful. PackMecEng (talk) 22:50, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have applied {{SPA}} tags literally hundreds of times, in all kinds of discussions, whether I agreed with the editor or not. I tagged an IP SPA that agreed with me in a discussion last week! The tag exists for a reason - because new accounts are known to suddenly pop up to aggressively press a position, whether it be to score a political point or to dispute the deletion of a non-notable business. This is a case clearly illustrative of that. User:SeriousIndividuals appeared on Wikipedia less than a week ago, and has done virtually nothing except opine in discussions on a highly contentious topic. Of course this is suspicious activity, and should be tagged as such, just as if the participation was in an AfD for a garage band or on a move request for a company to its assertedly preferred name. BD2412T 22:56, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The issues that come up are WP:BITE and what does it actually achieve? Again if you think they are a sock take them to SPI, if they are disruptive block them or take them here. Just tagging does not and cannot actually achieve anything positive by itself. PackMecEng (talk) 23:05, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, they serve the purpose of alerting admins to examine a discussion more carefully and to consider whether to start a WP:SPI. There are probably other reasons I'm not thinking of but I am being called away. --Deep fried okraUser talk:Deepfriedokra 23:07, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is also an interesting question - is there a prior discussion that states the authority of users to enforce individual SPA tags? Nosebagbear (talk) 23:10, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hard to say, I have not seen anything definitive but it is just a user essay. PackMecEng (talk) 23:14, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)That is not really the purpose of the template though. Even in this situation it says Unless there are multiple new accounts or IPs voicing the same opinion (a typical sign of sock puppetry), there is probably no need to use this template; the user should probably be addressed personally instead. Which was not the case here and no talk was had before hand. PackMecEng (talk) 23:11, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've been wondering about this SPA tag for a while now. When I was new editor, I was accused of being a SPA, (I thought they misspelled spy) but I definitely am not. I'm all over the place on WP - all the way to Commons - but I do know we have veteran editors who appear to be SPAs in that they only edit certain articles in a particular topic area...like AP2, or GMOs, or CAM, etc. We don't tag them and if my memory serves, we have had long time editors showing up with 5 or 6 accounts and ivoting. Anonymity is a dilemma, but I think we should probably AGF first. Having said that, I have drawn attention to new editors who show up at an RfC - and in small text I will note that they have 4 edits total...or something along that line. I wouldn't doubt that we have lots of editors who prefer not to be known for taking a political position so they'll use a safe name - that's legal isn't it - as long as they don't abuse it? AtsmeTalk📧 23:13, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By "use a safe name" do you mean to edit with multiple accounts, without disclosing a connection between those accounts? BD2412 T 23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We routinely use SPA tags when single purpose accounts WP:PRECOCIOUSLY jump right into the middle of RfCs, AfDs, etc. having done none, or very little, editing elsewhere. Given the canvassing, sock puppetry, and meat puppetry, at articles involving high profile individual in American politics, this should be uncontroversial. In almost every case, no one should remove a SPA tag that was placed in good faith. To do so is disruptive and ultimately works against our purpose. - MrX 🖋 23:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
When you say "no one should remove a SPA tag that was placed good faith," is that your personal view or is there some kind of rule that says you can't remove people's tags? I'm genuinely asking, and nobody seems to have an answer. Sockpuppet comment of a community banned user

Thank you for notifying me, PackMecEng. I brought my concerns to Muboshgu's talk page here[260] but never got an answer to my questions unfortunately. I was disturbed to see that BD2412 chose to return to editing Joe Biden articles less than a week after agreeing to stop doing so[261], but I mainly just wanted to know if Muboshgu's justification for the tagging (B2412 is an "admin") was legitimate, and if I was permitted to revert Muboshgu's reversion of my reversion. Muboshgu nor BD2412 ever gave me an answer. My main beef here is that I feel like these tags are designed to undermine views with which BD2412 disagrees. I asked to be pointed to the policy page that says that I'm not allowed to delete these tags, but neither admin answered this question. I feel like it would have been much easier to help me understand the regulations behind tagging people's edits and whether admins have special privileges to do so, rather than simply use the "admin" title as a cudgel to intimidate me into keeping my views to myself. Sockpuppet comment of a community banned user

The tags alert editors that there is reason to suspect that the account perhaps didn't come to Wikipedia to help build an encyclopedia, but rather for advocacy or some other purpose that is contrary to Wikipedia's purpose. Weren't you the user who had a new IP address every time you commented, and who's contributions were focused including Tara Reade's allegations in the Joe Biden bio? - MrX 🖋 23:33, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the assertion that I somehow agreed to stop editing articles relating to Joe Biden is false. Moreover, SeriousIndividuals knows that this is false, because he protested on Muboshgu's talk page that the addition of SPA tags was an administrative action, and it was clearly explained to him there that this was a regular editing action. This should be dealt with accordingly. I should add that I have no allegiance to any political party, and that can be well-attested to my lengthy history of contributions with respect to politicians of all parties. BD2412 T 23:38, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and then you reported me to the admins trying to argue that I was some kind of "vandal"[262] (clearly false), attempted to dehumanize Ms. Reade as nothing more than a "staffer," claimed you "don't much care about Wikipedia," and were told to disengage.[263] Clearly, this instruction wasn't sufficient because you're still campaigning to undermine my views almost two weeks later. Sockpuppet comment of a community banned user
  • FWIW I recently had this disagreement in an RFC where I was the one placing SPA tags and others were removing them, to which I objected. My feeling on the matter is that it's covered by WP:TPG. If an editor posts This editor is an SPA. ~~~~, others may disagree, but if someone who disagreed removed that comment, it would be a violation of TPG. I think writing {{spa}} ~~~~ is the same thing, and this shouldn't be removed. If someone is habitually making improper tags, that's the same as someone habitually casting aspersions, and should be handled in similar fashion. Having recently had this argument elsewhere, I've looked all over, and could not find any policy or guideline or anything documenting global consensus on this issue. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 23:45, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'll add that I think one tag per account per thread is sufficient. Tagging each and every comment an SPA makes in the same thread seems excessive and distracting. Levivich [dubiousdiscuss] 00:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: placing != plastering. In a single coherent thread, there is little reason to add a tag multiple times. Next, as alluded to above, there are a good number of ....”regulars” who are, when all is said and done, SPAs; they just have a longer history, which has allowed that narrow focus multiple targets. Cirt’s many later manifestations, for example, were (are?) political SPA accounts.

This isn’t, say, an AfD where the subject has alerted his friends, or borrowed their computers.

There may, of course, be other issues: canvassing, sockpuppetry, meat-puppetry, &cet. but the narrow POV problems being highlighted are every bit as big a problem when somewhen has done it a few thousand times. Larger, in fact. Qwirkle (talk) 00:08, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • BD2412 shouldn't have added that tag multiple times, after every comment made by SeriousIndividuals. It seems like BD2412 was acting in bad-faith here by trying to call an editor muliple times a "single purpose account". This admin has been warned before about using used his admin tools where he is clearly involved. I am not sure but I think this can be brought to WP:AE.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SharabSalam: This is incorrect. I have not been "warned"; I protected a page and then voluntarily initiated a discussion here to seek evaluation of that page protection, and to advocate for protecting articles on all candidates and campaigns. I therefore request that you strike that incorrect statement. Also, I have not used any admin tools on any related pages following that discussion. BD2412T 00:29, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think the concern here is that Muboshgu reinstated your edit that had already been reverted, and seemed to imply that non-admins weren't permitted to revert admins by pointing out your status as an admin. Did you also lock the Donald Trump presidential campaign article through the November election, or was it just Joe Biden's campaign page? Sockpuppet comment of a community banned user
        • I advocated for locking both. The community had no appetite for that step. BD2412 T 00:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have strikes "warned". You have used your admin tools in articles where you are clearly involved. You have called an editor in that discussion a single purpose account under every single comment he has made. You should apologize to SeriousIndividuals and remove all of your comments except the one under the !vote.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 00:41, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I tagged the SPA where the SPA was being an SPA. Under what policy or guideline is that incorrect? BD2412T 00:46, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • BD2412, You have violated multiple guidelines here. You have repeated your comment that this editor is a single purpose account under every comment he has made. See WP:TALK Avoid repeating your posts: Your fellow editors can read your prior posts, so repeating them wastes time and space and may be considered WP:BLUDGEONING the discussion. Your repeated, unneeded, unproductive comments make me thinks that you are trying to bite newcomers, think hard before calling a newcomer a single-purpose account. Besides, it is discouraged to label any editor with such invidious titles during a dispute (see Wikipedia:Don't call a spade a spade). WP:BITE.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 01:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not particularly seeing the problem here. BD2412 did what we regularly do in contentious discussions, which is single out SPA POV pushing accounts. Such accounts are often vociferous on a single topic, but aren't engaged anywhere else, a sign of POV pushing, or sometimes shenanigans. Thus tagging them as SPA is a totally legit step. If there is any issue, it lies not with BD2412, but with the template itself. I see no misconduct from BD, and think that we ought not focus on them here. If there are concerns about how we use the SPA tag, then we probably need an RfC about how to use the tag, since we seem to be short on official guidance. CaptainEekEdits Ho Cap'n! 00:54, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You don't think it's disruptive to repeatedly call an editor a single-purpose account like more than 20 times in a single discussion?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 01:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying that for better or worse it's a standard practice, and that the fault perhaps lies in the system, not BD2412. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 01:13, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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JOJOJOJO1234567890

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Needs an indef. Only creation is User:JOJOJOJO1234567890/sandbox, a nonsense sandbox rant about a fake avengers movie. Once it got declined, they posted this legal threat. Hardly doubt its serious, but also doubt there they're here to contribute meaningfully. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 00:43, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Hijacking of My User Talk Page & Borderline Harassment

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Having been reassured by @El C: I should no longer have any issues going forward over my talk page, I have effectively lost control of my own user talk page because of User: Dennis Bratland violating WP:HARASS and WP:3RR, while trying to respond to El_C. My recent AN/I over WP:Wikihounding, was regarding this. It has blown up into this situation, where nearly every and any submission I make anywhere, is stalked by the user in question and deliberately goading me into leaving Wikipedia [264][265][266]. I did not want to create an AN/I over this, as it felt over the top. However, having my talk page hijacked and edit warred to death, no thanks.
I brought to the table (in link 2 above), a removal of information from BMW, I provided to a BMW article 28 months ago by a fellow editor 14 months ago, which had been verified, agreed on, and supported by Wiki guidelines in 2017. I expressed disappointment on the BMW E21 talk page (link 2 above), because no explanation was provided for doing that and I required one, so that it wouldn't happen again. On another page (Nissan Navara, link 3), I gave thanks regarding public usage of Wikipedia paying off to any and all contributing editors. They followed it up with negative commentary, which I removed (not acceptable by me), being rightfully restored by the user (no matter how unwelcome). On another page (Ford Bronco, link 1), I expressed concern why an often active user (Sable232) missed a glaring error (yet does the opposite with my edits[267][268][269][270]), with no citation and misleading information?

Both User:Sable232 and User:Dennis Bratland are stalking my edits to varying degrees and are setting out to create an uncomfortable editing environment for me by "targeting", in hopes I will leave Wikipedia voluntarily, blow up at them, and/ or be terminated indefinitely. If I change a timeline format that has been poorly written, Sable232 undoes it to make a point (or be disruptive) and Bratland makes incendiary commentary in areas they had little to no previous involvement as long as it pertains to me. An Arbcom is ongoing regarding my previous conduct, in which these instances of antagonism and harassment are key factors. I am bringing it up, so I do not resort to unnecessarily rash action. (drawn out verbal fights, warring). I'm not an expert on what should be done to ensure, I am not being targeted by these individuals with every submission and edit I make, particularly Bratland. In terms of page protection for manipulation of a user's talk page and etc. The 3RR violating user is somehow annoyed by the fact that myself, Dr. James N. (known here as Carmaker1), of Ford Motor Company Product Development Center and formerly of Jaguar Land Rover at Whitley Centre Coventry, wants to expand automotive Wikipedia (when feasible), but not ashamed of my background and expertise, to the point I work within those articles. Reading previous comments on Talk Ford Bronco, will highlight I don't use it as a means to intimidate. A few of us engineers do contribute, as well as designers. I have been warned in the past (about attitude), so going forward I am focusing on content (expansion, in depth historical information) and preventing disruptive actions (deleting without consensus, introducing contentious information, vandalism). I cannot do so successfully, if I feel harassed by someone, who thinks they can hide behind WP templates via WP:Wikilawyering and actively insult me in the process for amusement or stroke their own ego.--Carmaker1 (talk) 00:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't your first trip here, Carmaker1; not even this month. You should know by now that long emotional diatribes don't get you results. Concise evidenced reports will. X editor violated Y policy at Z diff. And so on. I don't know or care what the gist of everyone's bitching at automobile articles is about, and will not get involved. Don't do Wrestling either. And it's ridiculous that a serious primarily nuts and bolts subject like vehicles has descended to the level of something fundamentally meaningless like professional wrestling, but that's what it is. I see this is at Arbcom. Perhaps they can fix it. Betting pretty much no current vehicle editors will care for what they do. John from Idegon (talk) 00:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The ArbCom does NOT address this new development, so I am opening it up here to resolve it. As for: "I don't know or care what the gist of everyone's bitching at automobile articles is about, and will not get involved." Did you just state that? If you are an administrator, that doesn't read very objective, as this has nothing to do with content, but behavior and manipulation of another user's talk page. I currently have no new issues with content, that demands such mediation. If I did, it would appear at dispute resolution. I have recognized that your approach to this already shows a lack of objective care, as well as possible bias in overlooking the major aspect of hijacking a user's talk page (despite being requested to not be going there to edit, aside from warnings or notices/summons). I ironically was goaded into bringing to AN/I by the user in question, because they felt empowered to do as they liked on my talk page, so what choice did I have? Hope for magical interference? Your snarky response is unwelcome and disrespectful, as you know very well the subject matter isn't related to article content at this point. It is addressing for once, an underlying issue and ongoing harassment.--Carmaker1 (talk) 00:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have formally warned Dennis Bratland about the edit warring on Carmaker1's user talk page and advised them of places they could respond, including here. While this remains at WP:ARC there is some sentiment the community has not had a chance to adequately address this issue, a sentiment I share as I think the community is capable of addressing the issues at play here. Barkeep49 (talk) 00:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
All I have to say is that the user page guidelines and WP:POLEMIC don’t allow anyone to use their user pages as a safe perch to attack others with impunity. If Carmaker1 is going to use their talk page as a venue for a laundry list of disparagements, I have every right to reply on that page. Anyone who uses their talk page to badmouth an editor forfeits the right to kick them off their page.

None of this drama would be happening if Carmaker1 honored their repeated promises to focus on content, not contributors. —Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No one attacked you in text within that discussion between El_C and myself. I was asking for advice. You've chosen to take that impression, while edit-warring on someone else's talk page by hijacking it from their own control. I have never hijacked someone's talk page :0. That right there is very, very telling. Signed Dr. James N.(BTY)--Carmaker1 (talk) 01:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Carmaker1...besides wrestling and nationalistic editing, no single subject area consistantly lands here more than cars. I don't need to be involved in the details. I can see. If you don't want to follow good advice for how to successfully form an ANI complaint that's on you. I'm not an administrator and being an administrator isn't required to comment here. Your perception of having your talk page "hijacked" is not equivalent to another editor violating a policy. If you want action, you need to provide evidence. If you want it without a ton of drama and timesink, don't make your report dramatic and a long winded timesink itself. Listen or not, I don't care...it's not worth the grief. Frankly I hope Arbcom blocks the lot of you. Maybe the community can get some peace. John from Idegon (talk) 03:28, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you think being rude to me in the manner that you are exempts you from being accused of incivility towards me, you are quite mistaken. I am not above defending myself against a nasty temperament, provided that it's worthy of direct response. None of your points made, have solid credibility in being highly opinionated. I'm not interested in your viewpoint if it can't be objective and is essentially trolling, to insult an editor and not resolve a matter.--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I echo John from Idegon's comment above. Carmaker1 is advised that from now on, they should focus on content, not contributors—no more mentions of Dennis Bratland unless at this noticeboard with evidence, and not unless the issue is something new and substantive. The same applies to Dennis Bratland. If any evidence of a new problem is presented, one or both editors can be blocked. Meanwhile, stop talking about the past or each other. The Arbcom case request will be declined and any new issues can be handled here. Johnuniq (talk) 03:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed sir, I genuinely mean that and will only refer to a user regarding content and not them as an individual going forward. Thank you for your input and I honor that by being 100% respectful, no more excuses nor any iota of snide behavior on my part.--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Although Dennis Bratland should not have reverted your post to your talk page, you should also have not posted about them on your talk page, except to alert El C if there was a violation of your request to stay off. It's at a minimum extremely rude to demand someone stay off your talk page, then effectively talk about them behind their back, in a way they cannot directly respond. (This doesn't mean it's wise for Dennis Bratland to respond, often it isn't. But they should be able to.) I assume you're banning someone from your talk page to partly disengage from them, which clearly isn't happening if you then start talking about them. In other words, if you want someone to leave you alone, then you should be leaving them alone as well. If you have actual issues requiring sanction or whatever, then bring them to an appropriate noticeboard, with evidence. Nil Einne (talk) 07:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that's understandable, to a degree. Should have kept it simple and waited for El_C, but re-read why I made that request. It was due to unwelcome harassment, which finally took the cake at Nissan Navara talk page for the 3rd/4th time of "fending off" unwanted harassment. What can be done however regarding the tendency of what I mentioned above as WP:HARASS and provided examples in diffs above?--Carmaker1 (talk) 07:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm dissapointed that Dennis Bratland broke their promise by not only editing Carmaker1's talk page, but actually edit warring there, too. Responding to multiple comments by Carmaker1 directly (rather than reporting any issues with these elsewhere) also comes across as provocation rather than dialogue. Had there not been a new warning issued by another admin, I would apply immediate sanctions. El_C 17:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In essence, Dennis Bratland cannot revoke his promise not to post on Carmaker1's talk page for any reason. He needs to report violations, if he believes these are occurring, not committing a violation himself. Which he did. More on that here. El_C 20:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You say I broke my promise but to me Carmaker1 is the one who voided the talk page ban by abusing it. That is something not everyone seems to be entirely in agreement about. I'm not the only one who thinks a talk page ban is contingent on the talk page owner not proceeding to use their talk page level accusations against someone who cannot reply there. Moving the discussion to another page was a better solution than either replying or removing their posts about me, but I didn't think of that at first. In any case, I'd suggest going forward we need to make clear to everyone that if you ban someone form you talk page, you have to find some other venue to post diatribes against the person you ostensibly don't want contact with. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dennis Bratland: Can I ask how you even became aware of that discussion? It looks like intentionally or not, Carmaker1 wrote it in such a way that you wouldn't be notified [271] [272]. Yet somehow 17 minutes later you were responding [273]? If you are still watching Carmaker1's talk page, may I suggest considering you've been banned from it, this is unwise? While you are not ibanned, given the relationship between you two, you shouldn't be following Carmaker1 around except specifically when you are building a case to bring somewhere in the immediate future. And you cannot comment there so what goes on on it should not generally concern you.

If you're going to use the fact Carmaker1 talked about you as an excuse, well I wrote a very long reply but decided against posting it and will just give a brief summary. May I suggest this is a poor example since you couldn't have known that before it happened, and Carmaker1 pinged El C, the admin who was well aware of request you stay away, and who therefore would likely have dealt with concerns over the appropriateness of what Carmaker1 was doing.

I don't know if my earlier reply was clear but IMO your best solution by far if you did somehow become aware of that discussion, was just leave it be and let someone else deal with it. Your second best solution, was to bring it to a noticeboard or with El C without touching Carmaker1's page in any way.

The options you chose to deal with it was close to the worse possible. Noting of course that even without a ban once per WP:OWNTALK and WP:UP#OWN, once you start edit warring with someone over what is on their talk page, most of the time you are clearly in the wrong.

Nil Einne (talk) 16:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A requirement to remove their talk page from my watchlist is rather novel. This is not an WP:IBAN. Carmaker1 can’t unilaterally declare an interaction ban, that’s for the community to decide, and they never requested one. If it’s unacceptable to criticize someone in a venue they are not allowed to reply in — and some of us think that’s a fundamental principle, even if the polemic and talk rules don’t explicitly say so — how would I be aware of it unless I watch the page? Again, I’ll at least admit replying on their page was not the best response, and copying the thread elsewhere, which didn’t occur to me at first, was better. If I hadn’t seen substantial evidence that Carmaker1 seems to have a unique immunity to community sanctions, I would have simply requested help in an appropriate form instead of taking action myself.

You could propose unwatching a talk page one has been kicked off as a new rule, perhaps in some combination with my proposal that you can’t criticize someone on a page you’ve banned them from. But all that belongs on a village pump proposal discussion. —Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, you were mandated not to edit that talk page, for any reason, and you contravened that. If you see a violation, you report it, you don't commit a violation yourself. It's that simple. El_C 18:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Is there anything going to be done about my concerns related to WP:HARASS, where the user wasn't mentioned, yet followed me to numerous talk pages, to counteract with antagonistic responses (cited above) or should this AN/I just be closed, if there is no interest in doing that? Thanks again for your sound input.--Carmaker1 (talk) 23:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that is how you see it, and I can respect your reasons, even if I reach a different conclusion. But now I’m confused about where you’re going with this. Can you help me understand what you’re asking me for right now? Is there something you are asking me to say or do? —Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:06, 21 April 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Asked and answered here. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:21, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Carmaker1, I hope both of you will tread lightly from now on with respect to direct interaction with one another. As seen from Dennis Bratland's link directly above, on my talk page, he seems amenable to that, so I'm closing this report on that note (see also my closing summary at the top of the report). El_C 23:40, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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WP:PAID

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  • Couple questions, Johnuniq. Is the comment immediately above a formal sanction? Second, as an employee of Ford, as he self-outed himself above, shouldn't he be restricted to talk pages only on automobiles? Being an important person in an important part of one of the major players in the automotive game is a clear cut conflict of interest and I'm betting also includes WP:PAID. If Carmaker gets profit sharing, a 401k contribution from the company, or stock options (all common compensation for key employees such as designers), then he's PAID and has no business editing automotive articles directly at all. John from Idegon (talk) 04:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, I'm making that a question for the community. I strongly doubt Carmaker can honestly deny that his personal income is directly tied to Ford's profitability. Can our reputation afford having someone whose income is directly tied to an particular auto company's bottom line generally editing automotive articles at all? Many police departments have policy in place barring officers from drinking in public licensed establishments in their jurisdiction. It's not because it has caused problems; it's to avoid any public perception that it could be. Fraternal Order of Police posts frequently have private bars, for just that reason. With his revelation here, we have a huge perception problem. We need to act to maintain the public's perception of neutrality in our encyclopedia. As I frequently tell my son: "Reputation is our most important asset". John from Idegon (talk) 04:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a common misunderstanding of PAID. If Carmaker works for Ford, then they are paid to do things with cars, not edit Wikipedia. PAID is specifically about paying someone to make edits to Wikipedia. Mr Ernie (talk) 07:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • And unsurprisingly, you are reaching over some wonderous, underlying reason. My interest is in the automotive project (globally), past, present, and future, not solely Ford products. I mentioned being a Jaguar engineer years ago and no issue was made of it for well over 3 years. How often did I edit Jaguar Land Rover articles? Hardly, compared to Japanese and German products, with various American brands thrown in. It's a hobby as an automotive collector, historian, and enthusiast since youth. It is all very interesting how personal you are taking this, to turn it into something extra and OFF-TOPIC. As someone that is a fan of spy and detective/investigative novels/films, I can read right through people with their intentions and certainly wasn't born yesterday...--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Carmaker1: You must comment with less emotion. Stick to substantive issues such as article content and the substance of your edits. Almost all of your comment is pointless, and talking about when you were born is a waste of other editor's time at this busy noticeboard. Johnuniq (talk) 05:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • It was a waste of my Sunday, to listen someone who is not an administrator (John from Idegon), gripe and insult me about over their irrelevant, negative opinion in a pointless fashion. I generally mind my business, rightfully so. In terms of my lengthy writing, yes I understand and I respect your request.--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I intended my comment above as an informal formal sanction. That is, I was planning to give one more warning to either of the two editors at the next problem, but then issue a significant block for any second problem. However, I don't think this discussion is ready to be closed, and I didn't want to be overly pompous. Nevertheless, my comment should be interpreted as a friendly threat. Re the Ford issue: I don't know enough about the background. COI is an important problem but in principle it's quite possible for an employee to edit helpfully. If they consistently puffed up Ford articles and denigrated competitors, an indefinite block might be appropriate. However, it would be good if they were using their knowledge to add neutral and sourced content. I wouldn't automatically say that a Ford employee must not edit a Ford topic or any car topic unless the edits involved COI issues. Johnuniq (talk) 05:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, a good friendly threat nonetheless. It is very obvious I've had a behavioral issue and yes, for good I am refraining from carrying on in any negative manner outside of defending myself on AN/I or my talk page. I solemnly swear to be objective about any corporate failures on the part of Ford and will remain 100% objective regarding all companies, to be solely informative and not intimidate anyone. The idea is to "help" people out, so if I know something, it can be found by anyone and brought back here via verifiable source. I am responsible for the leak of launch date for the 2023 Mustang, using a relative and not giving myself credit. That's how I work. If I can publicize every relevant aspect of the automotive industry (without harm), to the benefit of the public, that's my goal and nothing but that. I will leave it at that.--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again, Carmaker1, that's not how Wikipedia works. Administrators are not "the boss". They simply enforce the community's will. We are all the boss. Anyone can comment here. Wikipedia has a reputation and managing perception of that is 100% in the community's domain. I feel it is a major problem. Johnuniq, not as much. No one knows how you feel, because snark and verbosity have completely clouded your response. How about you clarify your communication in an unemotional way and then leave it be so the rest of the community can respond? I'm asking for a topic ban sanctions to avoid public perception of bias. Do others feel this better addressed at VPP? I think current policy allows it, and interpertation of existing behavior policy issues generally happen here. Comments please. John from Idegon (talk) 05:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's very rich and grossly hypocritical.[274][275][276]--Carmaker1 (talk) 05:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Personal attacks are definitely not warranted. Not to mention a glaringly bad idea in an ANI thread. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of your edits. I'm saying in general that someone editing pseudonymously claiming to be in a key position with a major player in the industry, one that commonly includes profit-based incentives and claiming to be in possession of insider information that he has used in his editing (or was that claim more snark? Cannot tell) is a detriment to the project on general principle. We cannot afford a public perception of bias. Something tells me we will be reading about this in a future issue of Wired. One single editor no matter who it is, is not indispensable to the project. Public perception of the project is more important than a single editor. If you were retired from multiple companies or were teaching automotive engineering or design in a university, no one would question your neutrality, because no conflict would exist. We simply cannot claim we are neutral and allow someone who has a profit to be had from an automobile company to be editing extensively in the area of automotive articles. A topic ban that removes any possible profit motive would solve that perception issue. Possibly not "automotive, broadly construed", but rather "contemporary automobile and automotive companies articles". That would still allow edits in the area of automotive that would have no bearing on the profitability of his employer. Like general articles on components, antique cars, history, etc. No diffs here. The issue at hand was raised by the OP himself in this very thread, and I'm not making an accusation of bias. I'm saying that public perception of the project is more important than the contributions of a single editor. Don't know how to state this any clearer than that. John from Idegon (talk) 06:30, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • And, as no one has yet replied, let me clarify further. I'm looking for paid editing restrictions, not a topic ban. His expertise is valuable. He can contribute to talk discussions and make edit requests, just not edit directly. We have to be able to deny bias by showing that the conflicted editor's work is reviewed. This is where this might need to be at VPP. We have to use our PAID policy not only to prevent non neutral editing, but also to avoid negative perception of our neutrality in general. The last may be pushing the envelope a bit, but it is certainly a valid discussion point. John from Idegon (talk) 06:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have to say, not having looked at this in any great detail, but if he has disclosed he works for Ford then I don't think this completely excludes him from editing all automotive articles. I did some work for an Acquarium shop, disclosed this and was able to add some info on bettas without any issues. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 06:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Chris.sherlock, the argument is a red herring. Information on betas cannot give a competitive advantage to a particular seller of betas. They all sell other things, and all the competition also sells the exact same betas. However it does sound like you agree that his admission here create a perception issue. Am I reading you correctly? (BTW, I edit conflicted you posting my previous entry). John from Idegon (talk) 06:38, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
John from Idegon not a red herring, a betta splendens. but, actually, adding the wrong or slanted info on bettas could be problematic. There are hundreds of species of bettas, and thousands of varieties. The advise each shop gives can be quite different. You could influence what food people buy, for instance. This makes it very important to reference solid information, which I have taken care to do. The same goes with the automotive industry. If he is writing about automobiles and sourcing correctly (and I suggest he stays away from Ford articles as much as possible, which may not be easy or even fully feasible given Ford is massive) then I don't think there is a problem if he contributes in an NPOV, accurate way with proper sourcing to automotive articles. And he also needs to disclose his potential COIs, which he has done.
I'll admit I've walked into the middle of what looks like a complex and major dispute. Carmaker1 isn't doing himself any favours with his major screeds, but I similarly don't think you do yourself any favours by being so strident. I do know it makes it impossible for either party (or anyone else!) to find a resolution. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 10:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have never hid who I worked for, having worked for Toyota USA as a paid intern in 2010, JLR in Mahwah, NJ in 2011, and UK as an intern in 2012-13, then full employment from 2013-16. And now this is becoming an issue? Am I no longer allowed to edit family members' Wikipedia pages, because of a conflict of interest? Wikipedia is not going to help the horrible Ford stock price nor is my nada effect editing.--Carmaker1 (talk) 07:26, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Assuming this unsigned edit is Carmaker, you're clueless (regarding COI editing) post reinforces my opinion that you cannot manage your COI without intervention. You posted all this in the single most visable place on Wikipedia, asserting your position and title as if they had some bearing on the conversation, while at the same time admitting you've been editing in other areas where you have a COI. So please now disclose what articles about your relatives you have edited, so that other non conflicted editors can review them.--John from Idegon (talk) 07:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • There really is no need for such an aggressive message. Whilst you may be suspicious of COI, there is no need to be rude about it. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 07:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • What are you even talking about? What "visable" place did I assert my position and title? An article? Here? It's called "my background", on why I care to edit about certain subjects and being transparent (and not deceiving to flout COI). I clearly do not have my own Wikipedia article page like a politician or a celebrity, therefore, COI reduces quite a bit doesn't it? Ironically, I refrained from doing that (family articles) to not give away my ethnic background. You can check my edit history and come to that resolution regarding the relevant nationality and my edit summaries disclosing that on each differing page.--Carmaker1 (talk) 07:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • And thank you Chris sherlock for your input.--Carmaker1 (talk) 07:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a second-hand opinion here, but I would recommend that you do not, in fact, edit family members' Wikipedia pages, and perhaps review WP:COI. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 06:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the polite and respectful suggestion Dumuzid. Have a good day.--Carmaker1 (talk) 07:09, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FYI, now listed at COIN, which is the proper forum for WP:PAID issues. I suggest this WP:PAID sub-thread be closed here, in order not to have two discussions about the same in two different places. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:20, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Is this a personal attack?

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So I lurked HHH Pedrigree (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)'s user page and I discovered what appears to be a sweary rant inserted on Pedigree's user page by ForrestFuller (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) in October 2018, complete with a signature (suggesting this is meant for Pedrigree's user talk page). This appears to originate over a dispute over part-time members of Bullet Club (edit talk history links watch logs). After FF inserted whatever these things that should have been on an user talk page, FF changed the message to say that he is done dealing with him, with two instances of the word "asshole" referring to Pedrigree. The suspicious placement (a user talk page material is placed on an user page) complete with the use of the word "asshole" makes me wonder if this could constitute a personal attack. FMecha (to talk to see log) 12:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Calling editors "asshole"= very uncivil, probably a personal attack; something that happened over two years ago on a page neither party has edited in over two years=completely irrelevant of the non-event kind. ——SN54129 13:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Digging up a diff with no context, from two years ago, and posting it at ANI probably isn't the best thing to be doing. To quote Nigel Tufnel - "Authorities said... best leave it... unsolved..." Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:40, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with everything SN54129 and Lugnuts have said. Best we let it go. AryaTargaryen 13:51, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Bgkc4444

The evidence suggests that Bgkc4444 is a fan of Beyoncé. I grow weary of this user's addition of badly-sourced material to List of awards and nominations received by Beyoncé (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) and his bloating of articles with relentless puffery.

I do not think that Bgkc4444 is paid to edit on behalf of Beyoncé, but the effect is the same. Only maybe worse: paid PR teams are probably better at pretending to follow NPOV. Guy (help!) 00:02, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@JzG: Apologies, I reversed an edit by a user known for making unreliable edits to awards articles which mischaracterised an award as a poll, which it is not, but I did not recognise the source was a blog. Regarding the edits to the Lemonade album article, I was reviewing Featured articles for the Albums WikiProject and was trying to emulate those articles by creating the edits that I made. I don't see how it is "bloating of articles with relentless puffery". I'd appreciate it if you brought it up with me personally first if you had an issue with the article; I'm not sure why you always seem to want to try find mistakes in my edits. Bgkc4444 (talk) 00:28, 19 April 2020 (UTC)Bgkc4444[reply]
I'm honestly not seeing anything requiring admin intervention here; I agree that not all of the edits are quite right but most of them seem fine, and there doesn't seem to be any real pattern of major misconduct. Can this not be solved by constructive discussion? ~ mazcatalk 01:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mazca, the issue is a WP:SPA edit-warring against consensus to include bloated lists of badly-sourced and non-notable awards. Guy(help!) 10:12, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@JzG: The reverting edit I made on the page wasn't "edit-warring against consensus to include bloated lists of badly-sourced and non-notable awards", and I have not added any new content to the article. As stated, I reverted an edit by a user who removed information for an incorrect reason, not because of the topic of non-notability that was previously discussed and that we reached consensus on. You also raised an issue with my edits on Lemonade (Beyoncé album), calling them "bloating of articles with relentless puffery", which, again, is completely false. I ask again for you to start a discussion on my talk page or on the article in question's talk page if you want to question my edits. Bgkc4444 (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2020 (UTC)Bgkc4444[reply]

AldezD

AldezD (talk · contribs)

This user keeps undoing my good-faith edits without explaining why, and when I try to explain on both the Concentration (game show) talk page and his talk page, he just deletes them without explanation, then sends me a "warning", claiming my edits were "vandalism". That is going overboard. I request an explanation as to why. I told him that I clearly saw on first game of the May 12th, 1988 episode of Classic Concentration, a contestant used a Green Take to take his opponent's Red Take out of play. I saw it on Buzzr a month ago. Why does he not believe me? DawgDeputy (talk) 12:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DawgDeputy has a well evidenced and documented history of disruptively editing, warring and sockpuppetry. This user has been given chance after chance following multiple blocks, and continues to add original research and edit war. DawgDeputy is an editor who has been on Wikipedia—not counting earlier socks which did exist or may still exist—for 11 years. "I clearly saw on first game of the May 12th, 1988 episode of Classic Concentration"—completely ignores WP:V, one of the most basic and simple content policies, and is further evidence of a lack of competence.
The edit I reverted was WP:OR and I removed content that did not meet WP:V. The edit summaries by DawgDeputy are yet another example that despite 11 years of editing, the user cannot edit competently: "May 12th 1988: A contestant used a Green Take to take a Red Take out of play.", "I saw it.", "Again, May 12th, 1988. It was not a joke. It was actually done."
AldezD (talk) 13:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, aside from that alleged "incompetent" edit to Concentration (see the May 12th, 1988 episode for proof), a majority of my edits have been in good shape for the past few years. And edit-warring has been severely lacking in my history for that same time period (and I was scarcely blocked as such). Plus, there has been no legitimate report of sockpuppetry involving yours truly for the past five years. Those 2017 reports-- Those were fakes. Gsnguy was the real culprit in that case.
But seriously, that was not vandalism. I saw the episode, yet AldezD refuses to acknowledge it, and claim it was vandalism, not good faith, even if the edit was wrong. DawgDeputy (talk) 15:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IDHT. You are making unsourced edits to articles that are then reverted by others. You continue to edit in this long-term evidenced pattern of ignoring WP:V and resort to WP:EW or harassment when your edits are reverted. This is not competent behavior.
Stop harassing me on my own talk page by reverting edits I have made within WP:UP#CMT guidelines. "Policy does not prohibit users, whether registered or unregistered, from removing comments from their own talk pages...There is no need to keep them on display, and usually users should not be forced to do so." AldezD (talk) 15:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The article is mostly unsourced fancruft anyway (and has been flagged as such since 2011) - it probably needs a good going over with the pruning shears. DawgDeputy isn't helping matters by adding more unsourced stuff, but it's not vandalism - AldezD, 4im vandalism warnings are more usually given out for inserting abusive profanities into BLP and that sort of thing, not adding unsourced content about game shows. I know that it's almost never actually productive to tell someone to calm down, but both of you should probably chill? GirthSummit (blether) 16:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I will leave the article as it is for now. DawgDeputy (talk) 16:22, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Further comment I've given both users some advice on their talk pages. I don't think any further administrative action is warranted at this point, but am happy to field questions or complaints from either party if there is any further disruption. GirthSummit (blether) 19:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User talk:81.154.188.111

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81.154.188.111 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is abusing their talk page after being blocked. Please revoke TPA. --MrClog (talk) 21:31, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. El_C 21:33, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There are several problems with the article on the Amendment II to the U.S. Constitution. The article seems to be controlled by writers who have a decided bent toward greater gun-ownership and have made the Supreme Court's Heller decision--a recent & very close decision, which is something of an outlier in the history of decisions concerning the Second Amendment--definitive. For example, the article's first line states that Amendment II "protects the individual right to keep and bear arms". This is an inference from Heller--and only Heller. It is not from the amendment itself, which is not about "protecting" a right and does not employ the word "individual" or "person" or even "persons". Rather, Amendment II uses the words "militia" and "people".

Heller should certainly be a part of this article--as should all cases involving Amendment II--, but it should not color the entire article. I do not want to get into an edit war about this article, so I hope that some executive editors--so to speak--could step in and keep the article neutral. Thanks.

James Nicol (talk) 19:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@James Nicol:, this board not for discussing content disputes. Please discuss them on the talk page of the article in question, not here. funplussmart (talk) 20:02, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Can I Log In use of AWB without authorization

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Can I Log In (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I'm not really big on the whole AWB authorization thing and how we deal with it, so bringing it here for people who actually know about those things, but it appears that Can I Log In has reverse engineered WP:JWB to give himself access to AWB without actually having permission to be on the AWB checkpage, see this diff and this diff. This kinda goes both against what the script says, the spirit of having an AWB control page, and the idea that we want people to be experienced before they use highly automated tools. Thought I'd bring it here for people who are more familiar with this type of stuff to look at. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes. I did fork it from User:Joeytje50/JWB.js. Here's what it says.
Extended content
* @licence * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or * (at your option) any later version. * * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the * GNU General Public License for more details. * * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along * with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., * 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA. * http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html * @version 3.1.1 * @author Joeytje50 */  
I have voluntarily disabled it as soon I saw this. I only used it for fixing the worst thing on Wikipedia. Crappy spacing. [1]And that's why I reversed engineered JWB to do that.
My defense, well if the user script source code is availiable on Wikipedia, then it can be mirrored or forked. Turns out, it's now problematic that JWB can be accessed without AWB access. So either JWB has to be destroyed, which is hard and unlikely, or now we have a free JWB problem we'll have to suffer if more people know about this.
I do pledge to refrain from using JWB while this AN/I thread is active. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 00:51, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note

  1. ^ You see, this footnotes should not be spaced away from the period or be right next to the next sentence
Yes, it is problematic that people are able to copy JWB and make an endrun around the authorization checks. Usually this problem is solved by blocking the people who do this sort of thing. – bradv🍁 01:06, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be he's doing exactly what the license told him to do. He honestly could've taken it a step further and deleted the auto edit notice suffix if he wanted to be subtle about it. We're going to block someone for being smart?--v/r - TP 02:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The point isn't whether or not something can legally be done. There are lots of things that can technically and legally be done on Wikipedia, but shouldn't. In this case, we have collectively decided that people doing mass edits of the sort done by tools like JWB and AWB need to be vetted by the community and approved to use the tools. While it is technically possible to circumvent that approval process, it should not be done. I see now that the offending script has been deleted, so this can probably be closed with a warning. – bradv🍁 02:23, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The warning should be placed in the script file and/or WP:JWB. Levivich[dubiousdiscuss] 02:54, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:JWB already says Note that, to use this script, you must be listed on the checkpage located at Project:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage (ie. this page on this wiki), if that page exists. but I’d be fine with adding a more explicit warning in addition to letting Can I Log In no not to try to game the system on automated type edits again. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Well I don't think that the edit summary lead up to me being discovered becuase it was clearly shown on the now deleted page which was probably discovered by Tony doing new page patrol. Also, I could ultimately even take it a step further by making a Bookmarklet and take your advice and no one would even have a clue. But I also shouldn't be doing that since this is a scar on my behavioral record meaning there would be easy suspicion, and I shouldn't be doing this overall. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's(talk) page 03:26, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can I Log In, most of the above discussion is irrelevant, IMO. The simple fact of the matter is that JWB specifically says you can't use it without approval. You ignored the rule, appearing to do so in a deceptive, gamey way. I don't see you addressing that at all. ~Swarm~{sting} 04:05, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure I said But I also shouldn't be doing that ..., and I shouldn't be doing this overall. Is that not addressing the issue? Also, I turned off my JWB and said I do pledge to refrain from using JWB while this AN/I thread is active. Is that not enough?
Click show if I have not addressed the issue
White flag
White flag waving.svg
UseTo indicate I have surrendered, therefore addressing the issue of my unauthorized use of JWB. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page
Adopted{{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 04:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can I Log In No, that's definitely not enough. This is not about you "surrendering". This isn't a battle nor is it about winning. I see no explanation here beyond you basically saying, "yeah, you got me, I give up". Should we take this to mean that you intentionally circumvented the rule? ~Swarm~{sting} 04:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I clearly have implied I did. Could I claim WP:IAR? Yes I think I can, but clearly it's not recommended. All that occured was fixing excess spacing with reference footnotes. To do that, I reversed engineered the source code from JWBto bypass checkpage verification and the authorization procedure. What did it cost: a report at the administrators' noticeboard for incidents (which I question, should this be at the regular AN or here? My issue isn't chronic).
If I have to keep explaining that I have addressed the problem, by the time I "do" address the problem even though I already have, it will be the size of a poem. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's(talk) page 04:37, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Can I Log In: Just to answer your question: WP:AN is for matters that concern admins (RfPP is backlogged, why is this page protected, etc). WP:ANI is for when admins might need to intervene with an onsite incident. Anarchyte (talkwork) 04:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Can I Log In:Could I claim WP:IAR? Yes I think I can. No, you could not; IAR applies to rules, not behavior. ——SN54129 05:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You omitted the following clause; but clearly it's not recommended. Also to be clear, I do not declare IAR. To think is different from acutally. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's(talk) page 05:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I omitted nothing of relevance: IAR was never on the table. ——SN54129 05:20, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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