위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive797

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기타 링크

로그아웃된 봇?

RfC 알림봇이 로그아웃된 상태에서 편집 중인 것 같아. [1]을 참조하십시오.그게 실수야, 아니면 내가 뭔가 오해하고 있는 거야?해당 사용자 대화에 대한 지침을 이해한다면:2A02:EC80:101:0:0:0:2:8:0:0:0:2:8을 부드럽게 차단하여 봇이 로그인하도록 해야 한다.하지만 그렇게 해서 일을 망치고 싶지는 않으니까 우선 여기부터 물어봐야겠다고 생각했다.Qwyrxian (대화) 03:29, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Anomie가 2A02를 소프트 차단함:EC80:101:0:0:0:0:2:0/124는 해당 개별 IP를 포괄한다.레곡™ (대화) 03:45, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

사과

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 여기서 적절한 행동이라고 여겨지는 것과 그렇지 않은 것에 대해 확실히 배우고 있다.앞으로 나는 다른 사람들의 견해에 대한 논쟁에 결코 참여하지 않을 것이며, 더 나은 표현을 위한 제안만 할 것이다.나는 다른 사람을 공격하는 것이 용인되는 문화를 혐오하고 다시는 그 문화의 일부가 되는 것을 거부한다.

다른 편집자들을 불쾌하게 한 것에 대해, 나는 진심으로 미안하다.이것은 전쟁터가 아니라 협력적인 노력이 되어야 한다.ANI에 온 나의 의도는 갈등을 줄일 방법을 찾는 것이지, 추가적인 갈등을 만들려는 것이 아니었다.

내가 BLP를 읽는 것은 위키피디아에 있는 다른 편집자들의 그것과 상충하는 것처럼 보이지만, 내 이해에 대해 가장 목소리를 높이는 편집자들 중 일부는 BLP에 대한 이해에 대한 그들의 설명으로 인해 대략적인 비판을 받아왔다. [2].나는 (WP만이 아닌) 모든 곳에서 사람들이 그것에 대해 부정적인 것을 써서는 안 되며 그것이 적절한 언어로 매우 잘 소싱되고 쿠치될 수 없다면, 그리고 모든 사람들은 유죄가 입증될 때까지 무죄로 여겨져야 한다고 굳게 믿는다.우리는 또한 피실험자의 견해와 그들이 말하는 것을 정확하게 반영하기 위해 매우 신중할 필요가 있다.남의 견해를 잘못 전달하는 것(기사에, 또는 다른 편집자의 견해에)은 결코 좋은 생각이 아니다.대부분의 위키피디아 사람들이 이해하는 BLP를 따르지 않은 정도까지 사과한다.

내 추가 교육을 위해, 이 편집 [3]과 이 편집 [4]에 대한 의견을 듣고 싶은 사람이 있는가?이것이 우리가 기사를 향상시키는 방법인가?레거시pac (대화) 04:50, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

둘 다 같은 편집인 것처럼 보이지만, 그들이 무엇을 했든 간에 기사 토크 페이지에서 다른 편집자를 논하는 것은 결코 그들이 무엇을 했든 간에 말이다.사용자 토크 페이지는 그것이 목적이며, 기사 토크 페이지는 오로지 기사의 개선을 논의하기 위한 것이다.Apteva (대화) 05:14, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
좋은 캐치 아티바야, 고마워.나는 방금 내 게시물을 정확한 링크(1번째 링크)로 시간 순서대로 업데이트했어.레거시pac (대화) 07:29, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
같은 문제.Commons에서는 섹션 제목에 편집자의 이름을 지정하는 것이 절대 금지되어 있다.그 부분은 6분 후에 삭제되어야 한다.Apteva (대화) 08:22, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 나는 반대하지 않았다.내가 지역 봉사 활동을 하는 줄 알았는데그 규칙에 대해 몰랐어쩌다.이제 나는 한다.HiLo48 (대화) 08:49, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
[그건 상식적인 규칙이고, 너무 노골적으로 위반이기 때문에 우리의 가이드라인에 있을 필요도 없다.커먼즈에는 어떤 것에 대한 지침도 없다.]우리의 Talk 페이지 가이드라인은 그 주제에 대해 충분히 말하지 않는다.그들은 기대에 너무 많이 의존한다.기사토크 페이지는 기사를 토론하기 위한 것이고, 사용자토크 페이지는 사용자 행동과 위와 같이 편집자 특유의 내용 문제를 토론하기 위한 것이다.기본적으로 단체 의사 결정 방법에는 의회와 합의라는 두 가지가 있다.참가자에게 코멘트를 전달하거나 참가자에 대한 코멘트를 허용하지 않는다.의회는 모든 의견을 의장에게 전달한다.컨센서스는 주체가 여기와 같은 한 참가자를 징계하지 않는 한 모든 의견, 심지어 징계 의견까지 그룹에게 지시한다.왜 그런 식으로 하는 거지?효과가 있기 때문이다.우리 모두는 참여자들이고 모든 논평은 우리 모두에게 똑같이 중요하다.Apteva (대화) 09:09, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 어떻게 Apteva가 의회 절차가 참가자들에 대한 코멘트를 허용하지 않는다는 것을 상상할 수 있는지 생각해 보려고 애쓰고 있다.영국 의회는 확실히 그렇다. 호주 의회도 그렇다.그들은 가끔 내가 Aptva를 거짓말쟁이라고 부르는 것이 허용되지 않지만 윈스턴 처칠을 인용해서 내가 그를 "단어적 부정"이라고 의심한다고 말할 수 있도록 할 수 있는 정도"를 요구하고, 의장이나 의장에게 연설할 것을 요구하지만, 이것은 마거릿 대처가 그녀의 반대자들을 "Frit!프릿!", 제프리 하우가 사임 연설로 그녀를 끌어내리는 것도, 줄리아 길라드토니 애벗에 대한 맹렬한 의회 비판도 하지 않았다.위키피디아가 내가 "왜 그렇게 생각하느냐"라고 쓸 수 있을 때 "아티바가 어떻게 그런 상상을 할 수 있을까"와 같은 문구를 사용하도록 요구하면 위키피디아가 도움이 될지 확신할 수 없다.NebY (대화) 10:39, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 DOK 블록 요청:자야크리슈난.ks101

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

DUK BLOCK을 빨리 구할 수 있을까?

완전히 막힘으로써

*Jayakrishnan.ks100 (토크 · 기여)고마워. -- TRPoD anka The Red Pen of Doom 11:46, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

  • a) 나는 차단되지 않는다. b) 이것은 파괴적인 사용자들이 심지어 선임 편집자들까지도 사칭으로 태워다 줄 수 있다는 것을 증명한다.JK (대화) 14:54, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

Done De728631은 이미 그들을 돌보았다.ChrisGualtieri (대화) 15:07, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

      • 지적해줘서 고마워.Gogdygody의 가능한 sockpuppet과 잘못된 사용자 이름을 위한 차단.De728631 (대화) 15:08, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

유진 브이 뎁스의 조직화된 반달들

유진 뷔.은 세 명의 편집자에 의해 반복적으로 파괴되고 있다(여기서 [5]의 역사).사용자 편집:엘리야 모튼, 사용자:PDavis MillionUser:24.117.180.113은 유사하며 서로 가까이서 발생한다.나는 그들을 따라갈 수 없다.제발 도와주세요.Howicus (talk) 15:45, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

사실, 이제 그만둔 것 같아.엘리야 모튼에게 다시 경고했네, 사용자:HmroxUser:24.117.180.113에 경고하고 User:PDavis Million은 다시 편집하지 않았다.하우커스 (대화) 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC) 16:00[응답]
엘리야는 마지막 경고 이후 편집하지 않았고 PDavis는 경고 없이 단 한 번만 편집했다.IP도 쪽지를 받지 못했다.이 같은 행위가 계속될 경우 관리자는 조치를 취할 수 있다.거의 머리가 없는 {c} 17:07, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

대화 시 법적 위협:수잔_L._버크

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP는 여기서 법적 위협을 가했다.기사토크 페이지에서 IP 및 장소통지를 공지한다.재넷도이 (대화) 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC) 16:14 [응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

RevisionDelete on the Doctor 이름

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

닥터후, 닥터이름이 유출되었고 익명의 사용자가 이 에피소드 기사에 줄거리 개요를 올렸다.이후 이 편집은 되돌렸고, 페이지는 사용자에 의해 반보호되었다.블랙 카이트.그 정보를 고려하는 것은 검증할 수 없다.하지만 이것이 블랙 카이트에 의한 RevisionDelete의 사용을 정말로 보장할 수 있을까?이는 저작권 문제가 아니며 WP도 아니라는 점을 명심하십시오.BLP도. Phillipedison1891 (대화 기여) 17:44, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 사전 서명되지 않은 논평

정말 이 문제를 논의할 필요가 있을까?4일 후면 그 기사는 줄거리를 정확하게 요약할 것이다."RevDel 선례로 간주되지 않는 것"이라는 메모만 남기고 다른 곳에 정력을 집중하자. --regentspark(토론) 18:59, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
(이 실의 끝부분에서 섭정 박의 끝부분을 풀었다) 의논할 필요가 있다고 말하겠네, 네.revdelete와 같은 도구는 특정 기준에 의해 보호되는 심각한 정책 위반을 제거하는데 사용된다. 특정 기준에 의해 보호되는 심각한 정책 위반을 "ohh spoors" 때문이 아니다. 그것들이 정말 인기가 있거나 드라마틱한 스포일러라 할지라도 말이다. 또는 우리가 예방한다면, 우리는 보너스 여분의 클립을 받을 것이다.revdelete 도구는 페이지 기록을 추적하는 비관리자의 능력을 제거하는데, 그것은 위키 소프트웨어에서 정말 중요한 요소다.그래서 애초에 revdelete를 너무 아껴서 신중하게 사용하는데, 잘못되어 여기서 무심코 사용하는 것을 보니 실망스럽다.필자는 BK가 삭제 요약에서 IAR을 인용한 것으로 보지만, "우리가 원하면 그를 추방하라"고 했으므로 그의 행동이 논란이 될 것이라는 것도 알고 있는 것 같았다.IAR은, 더 많은 사람들이 이해하기를 바라지만, 그 행동이 논쟁의 여지가 있고 동의하지 않는 경우를 위한 것이 아니라, "올바른 일"이 너무나 명확해서, 그것이 규칙에 없더라도, 모두가 동의하는 것이 상식적인 선택이라는 것을 아는 경우를 위한 것이다.이 경우, 그것은 사실이 아니며 (우리가 손가락을 흔들며 이것이 전례가 아니라고 말하더라도) WP:SPOiler에서 갑자기 이리저리 배회하여 우리는 스포를 비워둘 뿐만 아니라 기억 구멍으로 내려보내는 아주 이상한 전례를 세운다.나는 블랙 카이트에 의해서든 아니면 다른 관리자에 의해서든 이 revdelete의 번복을 지지할 것이다.플루퍼넛은 샌드위치! (토크)20:47, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
오, 제발.내가 revodelete를 사용한 것은 스포일러였기 때문이 아니라, (사실 그것은 완전한 bollocks로 보인다), 인터넷 광란의 오프위키가 있었기 때문이다. (여러 신뢰할 수 있는 사이트들이 "Wikipedia를 봐, 그것은 모든 것을 말해준다!"를 게시하고, 그 개정판을 가리키면서) 모든 일이 일어났을 것이다.얼드는 아마도 첫번째 것보다 더 나쁜 영어로 반복해서 다시 포스팅되었다.우리는 그 모든 것 없이도 할 수 있다. 그래서 내가 "스포일러"를 다시 썼고, 그리고 (b) 그 기사를 반감했다.내가 revdel 요약에서 말했듯이, 만약 내가 틀렸다고 생각한다면, 그것을 취소하고 거대한 물고기로 내 머리를 때려라.하지만 내가 옳았던 것 같다. (사실은, 템플릿에서도 같은 일이 일어난 것 같다.닥터 후(Doctor Who)도 - 다른 관리자가 삭제함)블랙 카이트 (토크)20:53, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 주로 Fluffernutter가 위에서 설명한 이유로 revdel을 되돌렸다.간단히 말해서, 우리는 스포일러가 저작권 위반 수준으로 올라갈 수 있을 정도로 충분히 상세하지 않은 한 스포일러를 리버스델링하지 않는다(Wipedia:이 작품은 아닌 허구의 작품#Avoiding_violation_copyright)에 대한 플롯 전용 설명.또한 이 경우에 그것을 유지하는 아주 좋은 이유가 있다: 편집자들은 나중에 이 이전 내용에 대한 줄거리 요약을 기초로 할 수 있고, 또한 그것을 추가한 편집자의 활동을 조사하는 데 도움을 줄 수 있다.우리는 위키피디아가 어떻게 작동하는지 이해하지 못하는 소외된 사람들에 의한 공황상태를 완화하기 위해서만 컨텐츠를 제거하는 것은 결코 아니다.유출된 영상을 이용해서 검증할 수 있기 때문에 솔직히 이 자료가 아예 제거된 것이 아니냐고 의문을 제기하겠지만 그건 또 다른 문제다.템플릿의 수정본도 복원하겠다.Dcoetzee 20:57, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 내가 말했듯이, 우리는 그런 이유로 revdel을 사용하지 않지만, (위에서 5cm정도 말했듯이) 나는 그것 때문에 revdel을 하는 것이 아니라, 나는 기사의 혼란을 막으려고 하는 것이었지만, 어쨌든.좋아, 오늘은 뉴스 시간이 느린가?블랙 카이트 (토크) 21:05, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
비록 당신의 행동이 선의로 이루어진 것에 감사하지만, revdel의 유효한 사용은 "인터넷 상의 다른 곳에서는 혼란스러운 (나는 여기서 자선을 베푸는) 사람들이 있다"는 것을 포함하지 않는다.죄송합니다. — Scott Talk 16:46, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
템플릿 편집은 LTA 트롤링이었기 때문에 다시 삭제된 것이지 스포일러를 포함했기 때문이 아니다.그것은 RD3에 해당된다; 선의의 스포일러 포스팅은 그렇지 않다.플루퍼너츠(fluffernutter)는 샌드위치! (토크)20:59, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
내 실수야, 저것들은 그냥 놔둘게.나는 공공 기물 파손 행위를 지지하는 것도 아니다. 왜냐하면 그것은 공공 기물 파손에 대한 조사를 복잡하게 하기 때문이다. 하지만 그 기물 파손 행위는 최소한 정책과 일치한다.Dcoetzee 21:02, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

문제가 있는 IP 편집기가 아티클에 잘못된 정보를 끈질기게 추가함

지난 몇 주 동안 IP 사용자 2.219.140.198(토크)은 꾸준히 잘못된 정보를 기사에 넣어왔다.대부분의 경우, 이것은 영국 철도역 기사의 인포박스에 포함된 연간 승객 사용 수치를 포함한다.스테이션 사용 데이터는 OR에 의해 게시되며 온라인에서 사용 가능: [6]

예를 들어, 해당 링크에서 이용할 수 있는 Excel 데이터는 글래스고스트리트 기차역의 2011/12년 공식 사용 수치를 20,929,594(즉, 209억 3천만)로 제시하지만, 이 IP 사용자는 다음과 같이 이 기사에만 다양한 부정확한 수치를 추가했다.

  • 2,131만 (편집 15:38, 2013년 4월 7일) [7]
  • 2010만 (편집 23:07, 2013년 4월 7일) [8]
  • 201만 명(2013년 4월 10일, 23:18 편집) [9]
  • 2323만4000명(2013년 5월 6일 편집) [10]
  • 233억 4천만 (편집 22:52, 2013년 5월 13일) [11]

위 기사의 수치를 정정해 두 번 사용자에게 잘못된 정보를 추가하지 말라고 경고한 적이 있다.Signalhead 18:11, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

위키백과:국제조약 또는 협약에 의해 인정된 특수단체 삭제/명부(2차 지명)

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

특정 관리자에게 연락하지 않고, 이 AfD는 7일 이상 실행되었으며 폐쇄가 필요하다.고마워 LibStar (대화) 00:28, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

고마워; 이제 닫을게.아이언홀드 (대화) 00:43, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
Aaand가 해냈다.아이언홀드 (대화) 00:51, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

티아 샤프의 죽음

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

대화당:티아 샤프의 죽음, 관리자가 기사 이름을 '티아 샤프의 살인'으로 바꾸거나 이동 보호를 해제할 수 있도록 하십시오.재판은 끝났고 스튜어트 헤이즐은 유죄판결을 받았다.--1913년 5월 15일 (UTC) 05:25 (UTC)[응답]

장소가 잘못되었다.그것이 바로 WP이다.RM은.Apteva (대화) 06:20, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
물론, 예비 관리자들은 다양한 WP Fora에 대해 잘 알고 있어야 한다...하지만 또한 Cheats에게도 도움이 될 것으로 기대된다!바스켓 11:12, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[답글]
...도움이 많고 친근한 ( (→BWilkins←✎) 11:31, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각에 적절한 용어는 "wanna-be"일 것 같다.토마스W (대화) 11:24, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[답글]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

POV는 그리스-터키 전쟁 1919-1922년 그리스인들의 터키인 학살을 은폐하려는 그리스 사용자들을 몰아붙인다.

Gemlik-Yalova 반도 학살 페이지와 그 토크 페이지를 보라, 이 기사는 사실을 왜곡하고, 남용하며, 출처와 그들의 저자에 대해 거짓 고발을 하는 사용자들을 밀어내는 POV에 의해 끊임없이 편집된다.

이 기사는 그리스 군대에 의해 현대 터키의 한 지역에서 일어난 학살과 수십 개의 마을 불타버린 것에 관한 것이다.사용자 알렉시쿠아와 아테네는 사건을 은폐하려 하고 있고, 먼저 알렉시쿠아는 POV 태그를 덧붙였고, 나는 이것이 사실이 아니라고 말했고, 출처는 중립적이며, 제3자인 국제연합위원회에 근거한, 그는 서커스파에 대한 대량학살을 비난하려 했고, 이를 위해 체리쿠아와 아테네는 서커스의 출처(다른 책)를 선택했다.asescians는 단 한 문장에서만 언급되지만, 사실 전체 보고서는 Circassians를 전혀 언급하지 않는다.

그리고 그리스 만행에서 서커스단의 역할을 과장하려 했지만 출처에 따르면 그들의 역할은 항상 미미했다.아놀드 J. 토인비서커스의 개입에 대해 다음과 같이 말하고 있다: "그 보고서가 작성된 지 몇 후인 1921년 6월 말에, 이들 서커스 용병들일부는 터키 민간인들의 학살에서 그리스 체테와 정규 부대를 도왔다. 그러나 내가 알아낼있는 그들은 종속적인 역할을 했고, 그들을 이것이나 다른 그리스의 잔학 행위에 대한 경관으로 만들 영장도 없다."[1]그는 기본적으로 그리스인들의 터키인 대학살을 부정하고 정당화하며 최소화하기 위해 노력하고 있는데, 그는 매우 중립적이지 않은 행동과 극단적인 POV 추진력을 보여준다.터키의 보고서에 따르면 인터앨리드 보고서는 6,000명의 사망자가 발생했으며 이 문서의 저자를 공격했으며 터키어를 읽을 수 없는 상태에서 중립적이지 않다고 주장했으며 6,000명의 사망자가 사라진 다른 단편적인 자료에는 6,000명의 사망자가 있다.그러나 여전히 수백 명의 사람들이 집단 학살당한 것은 분명하지만 알렉시쿠아는 현재 출처를 왜곡하고 그 수를 35명으로 줄이려 하고 있다(자세한 정보는 아래 참조).


여기에 더 긴 설명이 적혀있다. 나는 관리자들이 이것을 읽고 그들의 POV를 밀어내는 편집을 멈추기를 바란다.



터키어 문서의 저자는 네바하트 오랄 아르슬란 박사인데 그녀는 신뢰할 수 있고 전혀 편견이 없는 터키어 사용자들은 페이지를 통제할 수 있고 매우 명확하게 볼 수 있다.아테네는 단지 증거도 없이 저자의 신임을 떨어뜨리려 할 뿐인데, 왜냐하면 그녀가 학살 사건에 대해 "역학적으로" 썼기 때문이다, 그러나 그가 깨닫지 못하는 것은 아르슬란 출처가 1921년의 인터 얼라이드 위원회 보고서와 전쟁 저널리스트 아놀드 J의 보도를 전적으로 기초로 하고 있다는 것이다. 온라인에 접속된 토인비[12]더 중요한 것은 무고한 사람들을 죽이고 마을 전체를 파괴하는 것은 폭정이다!그래서 무신론자를 뭐라고 말하려는 게 뭐야?그 학살들이 그저 그랬다는 거야?문제는 1921년 그리스군이 지역 투르크인을 상대로 자행한 학살 사건인 아테네는 알렉시쿠아와 함께 POV 그리스 위키백과 사용자 2명이며 허위 고발을 통해 범행을 은폐하려 한다는 점이다.그들은 작가와 출처를 거짓으로 비난한다[13], 그들은 왜곡과 체리픽 출처를 왜곡한다[나는 이것을 토크 페이지에서 설명하였다:알렉시쿠아는 이스탄불의 한 캠프에서 177명을 조사한 결과 사상자 수를 35명으로 줄인다.나는 이것을 그에게 4번이나 설명했지만, 여전히 그는 이것이 총 사상자 수라고 말하면서 사실을 왜곡하고 있는데, 출처에서는 전혀 말하지 않는 [14] : 177명 중에서 조사의 결과라고 한다.게다가 우리는 한 마을의 개별적인 학살에서 이미 35를 넘는 출처를 가지고 있다.그러나 알렉시쿠아는 여전히 출처를 남용하고 있으며 토인비가 총 사상자 수를 35명으로 집계하고 있다고 거짓으로 주장하고 있다([15] 참조).

지금 아테네는 그 안에 쓰여진 내용이 마음에 들지 않는다는 이유만으로 터키의 작가와 출처를 공격하고 있다([16] 참조). 그와 동시에 온라인 pdf-문서([17] 참조)에서 그리스인이 터키인에게 학살당한 것에 대한 정보를 터키인과 달리 각주가 없고 터키인보다 훨씬 전문성이 없어 보이는 정보를 열심히 덧붙인다.출처 ([18] 참조) 터키어 문서는 실제로 앙카라 대학교("TAED Cilt 10, Sayı 22 (2003)에서 발표된 연구 저널이다.투르키야트 아라şTIRMALARI Ensti̇tüsü DERGİsi̇").
왜 아테네는 프랑스 pdf 문서에 대해 그렇게 회의적이지 않는가?왜냐하면 그는 그 내용을 좋아하기 때문인가? (그리스인을 죽인 터키인) [19]를 보는데, 분명히 이것 또한 체리피킹이 한 것 같다. 왜냐하면 동일한 pdf 문서에는 이 숫자들은 지어낸 것이고 게리는 터키인에 대한 그들의 만행을 "슬론 레스민 그린, 점령 밀"이라고 부르는 그리스 난민들로부터 온 것이기 때문이다.Itaire le biene des Turcs et, de toute fascon le le le et et et et et eta était ar eux, car Ils y es était et et et altait et als y éte éte et et en épétant un conditions un élérationiste »ils l'aviient intiérentment metabolisé, ces populumes de se profiler oux de Gehri comme un éléément actif, etriche, adortant. Et ils ne font aucun mystère de leur objectif de chasser vers l’intérieur de l’Asie «cette race maudite qui, depuis des siècles, n’a pas fait un progrès, est incapable de progrès et qui pour le bien de la civilisation, doit être à jamais extirpée d’Europe et du littoral asiatique». Les autorités greckes ares questiones ne réclamaiient pas moins le nettoyage et l'exteration, le genocide, de la lea lea race » turque."[[20]] (번역, 그리스인들은 터키인들을 몰살하기 위한 학살은 좋았고 그들의 목표는 터키인들을 인종적으로 정화시키는 것이라고 말했다.

처음부터 알렉시쿠아는 페이지를 교란시키기 위해 모든 수단을 사용했기 때문에(페이지의 역사는 매우 길다, 모든 디프트를 넣을 수 없다)그들은 원천적인 학대를 하고 있고, 그리스 군대에 의한 범죄를 은폐/ 축소하기 위한 중립적이지 않은 의제를 분명히 추구하고 있다.아르슬란의 출처는 M이라고 말한다.게리는 총 6,000-6,500명의 사망자가 발생했으며, 6,000명이 사라졌다고 언급하는 다른 소식통도 있지만, 여전히 모든 소식통으로부터 수백명이 학살되고 수십개의 마을이 불에 탔다는 것은 명백하다.그렇지 않다면 왜 국제연합위원회가 결론을 내릴 것인가: "지난 동안, 집단별로, 마을의 파괴에 있어서 뚜렷하고 규칙적인 방법이 뒤따른 것으로 보인다... 터키 마을의 파괴와 이슬람 인구의 멸망에 대한 체계적인 계획이 있다. 계획은 그리스와 아르메니아 밴드들에 의해 수행되고 있는데, 이들은 그리스어 지시에 따라 때로는 정규군 분대의 지원까지 받아 운용하는 것으로 보인다."

그래서 나는 관리자들에게 이 POV 사용자들이 페이지를 중립적으로 편집하지 못하도록 막아달라고 부탁한다. 그들은 진실을 말하지 않고 사실을 왜곡하고 있고, 사람들을 거짓으로 비난하고 거짓으로 사람들을 비난하고 있다.드래곤타이거23 (대화) 2013년 5월 15일 16:22 (UTC)[응답]

문제의 사건이 바바리우스인지 티라노사우루스인지, 아니면 위키백과 편찬에서 중요한 것이 아닌, 검증가능하고 주목할 만한 것인지 먼저 지적할 수 있을까?여러분에게는 그러한 사실을 보여줄 수 있는 원천이 있는 것 같다; 그래서 해야 할 일은 침착하게 그 원천들과 연결되는 것이고, 토론은 누가 어느 나라에서 왔는지, 그리고 모든 조상이 어떤 끔찍한 일을 했는지에 관한 것이 아니라, 그 원천들의 신뢰성과 관련성에 초점을 맞추는 것이다.바라건대, 관리인이 곧 함께 가서 그들이 당신을 도울 수 있는 특별한 일이 있는지 알아봐라.알렉스 티플링 (대화) 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 16:44 (대화)[응답]
알렉시쿠아는 여전히 출처를 조작해야 한다고 주장한다.[[21]을 참조하십시오. (그의 근원적 학대/유도성에 대한 대답을 했다.)
나는 그가 파괴적인 반달리즘이 분명해졌기 때문에 그 페이지에서 편집하는 것을 금지해야 한다고 생각한다.DragonTiger23 (대화) 17:29, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)
  • 참고. WP에 제출된 보고서에 따르면:NEWNEW, 나는 두 편집자를 모두 48시간 동안 차단했다.--Bb23 (대화) 23:42, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

누군가가 WP의 드래곤타이거에게도 공식적으로 경고해야 한다.ARBMAC 제재.아테네오후 12시 2분, 오늘 (UTC-4)

관리자가 소싱되지 않은 매우 명백한 잘못된 자료를 재설치하여 페이지를 보호

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

관리자는 요청되지 않은 매우 명백한 잘못된 자료를 다시 설치하고 페이지를 보호하며(모든 비관리자로부터) 내 Talk 페이지에서 응답하는 데 시간이 걸리지 않고 대신 경고를 발한다.그는 어떻게 관리인이 되지 않는지에 대해 교훈을 주고 있는 것이 틀림없다.또한, 어쨌든, 그가 내가 페이지를 편집하는 것을 차단했다면 경고는 무엇에 해당하는지 궁금하다.

Lfdder (대화) 19:45, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

당신은 여기 오기 전에 문제의 관리자가 당신에게 응답할 때까지 15분이나 기다렸었습니다.만약 당신이 a) 그가 계속해서 몇 시간 동안 그의 감시 목록을 응시하지 않고 b) 만약 그가 IRL을 할 다른 일이 있을 경우를 대비하여 그가 응답할 시간을 기다렸기 때문에, 당신의 우려에 대응하도록 지시하는 질문을 그의 토크 페이지에 남긴다면 그것은 최선일 것이다.문제의 당사자와 직접 분쟁을 해결하려고 노력하지 않고 바로 여기에 첫 행동으로 오는 것은 나쁜 형식이다. --Jayron32 19:49, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그에 대한 나의 반응은 그가 페이지를 보호하기 이었다.그럴 시간이 있었다면 그도 내게 응대할 시간이 있었어야 했다.Lfdder (대화) 19:54, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
(갈등 편집) 정말?내가 페이지 기록에서 보는 것은 당신이 AfD를 피할 수 있도록 기사의 모든 내용을 제거하고 A3 빠른 삭제를 위해 지명함으로써 시스템을 작동시키려 한다는 것이다.부메랑에 주의하십시오. 기사에 문제가 있는 경우 AfD에서 자신의 장점에 따라 제출하거나 분쟁 해결을 추진하십시오. CSD 시스템을 사용하여 삭제 작업을 몰래 통과하려고 시도하지 마십시오.2013년 5월 15일(UTC) 19:50[응답]
그게 지금 네가 보는 전부야?과장된 말은 접어둘 시간일지도 몰라.내가 Talk 페이지에서 말했듯이, AfD든 아니든, 그 페이지의 내용은 절대 유지할 가치가 없다.이것은 단지 청어일 뿐이다.Lfdder (대화) 19:54, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 내 진술에는 과장된 표현이 전혀 없다.AfD의 정밀도를 피하면서 삭제되도록 하기 위해 CSD 기준을 충족하지 않는 페이지를 편집한 다음 CSD 기준을 사용하여 기사를 지명하는 것은 공정의 노골적인 남용이 초래하는 것과 같다."나는 천재다"라는 편집 요약을 보면 당신의 의도가 상당히 분명해진다.CSD 기준으로 다루지 않는 기사에 문제가 있다면 AfD로 처리하십시오.그렇게 확실하다면 왜 그냥 AFD로 하지 않는 거야?결국, 누가 그렇게 명백한 것에 반대하겠는가?2013년 5월 15일(UTC) 19:59, Writ Keeper⚇[응답]
나의 편집 요약은 분명히 유머러스함을 의미했다.나는 그것으로부터 아무런 해를 끼치지 않았다.만약 당신이 이것을 차단할 수 있는 위법행위라고 생각한다면, 그 정도면 공평하다. 하지만 그냥 내버려둬라.나는 "경고"를 받고 페이지가 보호되었을 때 다시 빠르게 태그를 달지 않았다.문제가 된다면 AfD에 갈 생각은 없어.내가 원하는 것은 단지 그 기사에서 거짓되고, 자전거를 타지 않는 물질들이 제거되는 것이다.Lfdder (대화) 20:05, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그렇다면 왜 실제로 뭔가 새로운 것을 하지 않고, 지침을 따르는가?너는 AfD를 시작할 때 그것을 들었다.대신, 당신은 많은 것들을 꺼냈고 다시 속도를 높이려고 노력했다.그것은 선의의 행동이 아니다.가깝지도 않다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함)20:06, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그래, 알았어.관료주의는 내 일이 아니다.그 내용이 삭제되어야 한다는 것에 동의하지 않는 사람이 있는가?그것은 즉각적으로 명백하지 않은가?왜 난잡한 골목길을 가야만 하는 거지?Lfdder (대화) 20:10, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
DGG는 분명히 그렇다.그에게 그것에 대해 말해봐.나한텐 다 그리스어라서 잘 모르겠어.하지만, 당신의 변화에 대해 토론하고 싶지 않다면, 당신은 왜 여기에 있는 겁니까?2013년 5월 15일(UTC) 20:13, Writ Keeper[응답]
  • 비관리 사용자로서, 나는 여기서 DGG와 관련된 큰 이슈를 보지 않는다.그 버전이 복구되지 않은 것에 대한 당신의 코멘트는 아이러니하다. 왜냐하면 당신의 코멘트도 그렇기 때문이다.의견 일치도, 측면 해명도 없이 내용들을 통째로 없앴는데, 어떻게 예상하셨습니까?그리고 넌 분명히 시스템을 조작하고 있어.부메랑 블록인가?루케노94(루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말해) 2013년 5월 15일 19시 53분 (UTC)[응답하라]
    DGG가 관여된 편집자로서 조치를 취하는 것 같지 않아서 여기에 ANI를 위한 것은 많지 않다.특히 제거되는 자료가 비소용일 때 누군가가 두 번 되돌아가는 것을 막는 것도 이치에 맞지 않는다.--등록공원(토론) 20:13, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
    히스토리온은 제쳐두고, 나는 동의한다; 빈칸->A3가 일관된 패턴이었다면 문제가 되겠지만, 여기서는 차단할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다.특이한 사건이지, 그렇게 많지는 않아.2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 20:15, Writ Keeper[응답]
아마도 Lfdder가 하는 가장 좋은 일은 이것을 AfD로 즉시 가져가기보다는 위키백과 대상 언어로 가져가는 것이다.자료의 유효성에 대한 입력을 얻고, 출처를 찾거나 말거나. --등록 공원 (토론) 20:17, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 음, 내가 더 잘해줄게. 이 편집자의 최근 편집된 내용을 대량으로 편집하지 않을 만한 이유가 있을까?수많은 기사에서 템플릿:그리스어의 역사는 아무런 이유도 없이, 그들은 대화 페이지에 대해 모르는 것 같고, 그들의 많은 편집은 편집 요약 없이 이루어지며, 그들이 주는 편집 요약의 일부는 "잡잡한 것을 제거"하는 속임수일 가능성이 있다. 그들은 내용을 삭제했다.도움이 되는 편집본을 몇 개 보고 다소 망설여지지만, 내 생각에는 나쁜 점이 좋은 점보다 더 크다고 생각한다.이 특정 기사에 대해서는, 기사를 보호하는 대신에, 차라리 DGG가 짧은 기간 동안 편집자를 막았으면 좋겠는데, 그것은 이 실과 밀접한 관계가 없다.드레이미스 (대화)20:24, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 글쎄, 한 구역에 "그것은 나에게 전부 그리스어다"라는 말장난을 두 번 쓰고 싶지는 않지만, 생각이 난다.2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 20:25, Writ Keeper[응답]
사이드박스와 네비박스 3개 중 1개를 빼는 건 내가 완전히 잘못한 거야.마녀를 불태워라.Lfdder (대화) 20:26, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
아무도 마녀를 태우지 않는다.신속하고 대량으로 자료를 제거하여 느긋하게 처리하고, 왜 그러는지에 대해 상세한 설명을 남겨두고, 이전투구되돌아올 때 전쟁을 편집하지 말 것. --regents park (토론) 20:28, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
당신의 행동이 뒤바뀌었을전쟁을 편집한다. 잠깐, 이제 어쩌지?Lfdder (대화) 20:30, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
고쳤다.내가 말하고자 하는 것은 "앞쪽 끝에서 온스온스의 설명이 뒤끝에서 일 톤의 공격보다 낫다"는 것이다. --등록공원 (토론) 20:34, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

다시 열기

...이 편집 요약, 이 내력, 그리고 가장 최근 편집된 내용을 볼 때.후자와 관련하여, 내가 우려하는 것은그리스어의 역사.템플릿이 중복되는 것은 당연하지만, 그 중 하나가 중복되는 것은 당연하지만, 그러한 모든 기사에서 템플릿의 제거는 최소한 논의되어야 한다.아마도 다른 템플릿은 가야 할 것 같다.어쨌든, 이건 파괴적이야DGG에 대한 Lfdder 래깅은 이미 상태가 상당히 좋지 않았고, 편집 요약은 위에서 지적한 편집 요약과 그들의 토크 페이지에 대한 그들의 형편없는 논평과 더불어 편집 전쟁과 다른 편집자들에 대한 일반적인 경멸을 결합시켰다.부메랑, 불친절 등드레이미스 (토크) 21:26, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

    • 네가 너무 친절해서 그냥 되돌릴 수 없었기 때문에 나는 내 친한 친구에 대해 논평했다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 21:33, 2013년 5월 15일(UTC) 가입[답글]
잠깐. 아니. 이 영역의 전문가 편집자로서 나는 칠키디키 그리스어에 대한 Lfdder의 편집이 타당하다는 것을 충분히 확인할 수 있다.그 페이지는 가치가 없다.아마도 신속한 삭제가 기술적으로 가장 적절한 방법은 아니었을 것이다. 하지만 사실 여전히, Lfdder는 이 문제를 해결하려는 린치 폭도들이 아니라 지원을 받을 자격이 있다.가장 좋은 방법은 단순히 페이지를 현대 그리스어의 다양성으로 바꾸는 것이다.DGG, 이 작업을 수행할 수 있도록 페이지 보호를 해제하십시오.Fut.Perf.☼ 21:36, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 문제가 그의 편집의 타당성이 아니라, CSD의 자격을 얻기 위해 시스템을 게임하는 그의 방법이라고 생각한다.그 내용은 당신을 믿지만, 그의 행동은 지금 이 시점에서 제재를 구걸하고 있다.막히지 않도록 도와주려고 닫기까지 했다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 21:40, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
IAR과 그 모든 재즈...아콘 (대화) 21:42, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
정확히 뭘 위해 차단된 거지?내 행동에 무슨 문제가 있는 거야?Lfdder (대화) 21:45, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
DGG는 당신이 그의 충고를 받아들여 AFD로 가는 대신에 그것을 거의 비워두기로 선택한 후에 그 기사를 보호하도록 강요당했다, 그것이 당신의 첫 번째 단서가 될 것이다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 21:57, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
기사의 거의 모든 내용을 삭제한 다음 내용이 부족하기 때문에 신속한 삭제를 위해 지명하는 것이 무슨 문제인가?아무것도 아니야.지구 온난화, 중력, 몰루스카와 웨스턴, 클레베돈, 포티스헤드 경전철대한 주류 과학 평가에 반대하는 과학자들의 목록에도 같은 일을 하는 동안 실례가 된다.Andy TheGrump (talk) 22:06, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 기사를 빨리 지울 수 있도록 "공백"하지 않았다는 것만 빼면 말이다.그것은 말도 안 되는 소리였기 때문에 나는 그것을 백지화했다.Lfdder (대화) 22:08, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
개인적으로, 나도 우리의 과학자 리스트에 대해 같은 생각을 하고 있어...Andy TheGrump (대화) 22:12, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 주제에 대해 전혀 알지 못하지만, 어떤 기사에 관해서도 똑같이 할 것이다.잘 아는 사람들이 그게 말이 안 된다고 동의한다면, 우리는 공감대를 얻고 적절하게 대처할 수 있는 방법이 있다.반복되지 않는 한 차단이 없어야 한다.나는 경고했고, 그것은 그 상황에 충분했다.여기서 전문가는 아무리 정확하더라도 그들의 입장을 옹호하기 위해 일방적인 행동을 취하는 것이 아니라, 좋은 출처를 가지고 설득력 있는 주장을 할 수 있는 능력으로 알려져 있다. DGG (토크 ) 22:02, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
다른 사람이 기사에 소개한 미공개 자료의 출처를 알려야 한다고?나는 깨닫지 못했었다.Lfdder (대화) 22:07, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서 "부품"의 크기를 비교하는 동안, 관리자들 중 한 명이 친절하게 "하위: 제안된 삭제" 라벨을 Chuckidik 그리스어의 상단에 배치하시겠습니까?언어학자로서, 이 기사는 비윤리적이고 커버력 면에서 완전히 사소하며 내용면에서 2학년이다.위키백과에 속하지 않는다. --Taivo (대화) 22:09, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
적어도 내 부분은 사방에 매달려 있지 않다.드레이미스 (대화) 22:13, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
(많은 EC) 당신이 옳을 것 같지만, 아직 막을 필요는 없지만, 나는 뚜렷한 WP를 본다.역량 및/또는 WP: 문제는 여기에 있다.가장 최근 댓글로 봤을 때 왜 글의 내용을 모두 삭제했다가 2인 이상의 설명을 듣고도 내용이 없어 신속한 삭제를 위해 태그하는 것이 문제가 되는지 아직도 이해가 안 가는 것 같다.IAR과 '부정직함'을 좋아하지 않는 것도 한 가지지만, 왜 사람들이 부정직해 보이는 것을 좋아하지 않는지, 그리고 만약 그 결정이 정말로 그렇게 명확한 삭감이라면, 단순한 AFD가 그렇게 될 텐데, 왜 그것이 불필요한 혼란과 문제를 일으키는지 쉽게 알 수 있어야 한다.당신이 그것을 하기 전에 AFD에 가져가라는 말을 들었다 하더라도 이것을 깨닫지 못하는 것은 순전히 받아들여질 수 있다. 심지어 그것을 하고 나서도, 그리고 몇 명의 사람들에게 불확실한 조건으로 들었을 때 그것은 더 문제가 된다. 당신이 그것을 아직도 이해하지 못하는 것은 괜찮지 않다.위와 같은 가장 최근의 답변이 마침내 받아들여지길 바란다.닐 아인 (대화) 22:17, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 후트. 완전 의사소통 부족, 뒤이어 스나크가 터지는 것, 그것이 혼란의 특징이다.그들의 우편물 비강에 관한 연구는 그들이 누구보다도 잘 알고 있다고 생각하는 명백한 증거고, 그들의 뜻대로 되기 위해 멈추지 않을 것이다.편집하고, 내가 되돌린 후에, 그들은 그것을 토크 페이지로 가져갔어야 했다.대신에 그들은 다시 되돌아갔다. 왜냐하면 그들은 당연히 그렇게 하기 때문이다.위키백과:볼드, 리턴, 토의 사이클은 보이는 그들에게 중요하지 않다(Navbox와 동일).그들의 주장은 "하나의 언어로만 증명되었다"-글쎄, 그들은 고개를 들고 있거나 위키피디아가 믿을 만한 출처라고 생각했다. 왜냐하면 그것은 분명히 옳지 않기 때문이다. 구글에서 몇 분 동안 책꽂이로의 여행이 증명되었듯이.그들은 소크라테스보다 칠키디키 그리스어에 대해 더 많이 알지도 모르지만, 그렇다고 해서 그들의 행동을 변명할 수는 없다.

    그리고 Lfdder, 당신은 DGG를 당신이 좋아하는 모든 것을 비웃을 수 있지만, 네덜란드의 처럼, 당신의 코가 긴 것보다 멀리 보는 것을 좋아하지 않는다는 것을 증명한다.우리는 더 이상 이 관절에 대화적이지 않은 편집 전사들은 필요하지 않다.드레이미스 (대화) 22:13, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

드레이미스, 당신이 Lfdder의 편집에 대한 대량 기계적인 반전은 적어도 설명되지 않고, 적어도 그들의 편집만큼 전달이 잘 안되고, 적어도 편집만큼 파괴적이었다.너는 여기선 너무 지나치니, 그만 좀 해.Fut.Perf.☼ 22:16, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
퍼프, 날 애지중지하지 마시간을 들여 실제로 살펴본다면, 내가 그들 편집의 전부 또는 중요한 부분을 되돌리지 않았다는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다.물론, 여러분은 그들의 모든 것이 처음부터 설명되지 않은 것이라는 것을 지적할 수 있을 겁니다. 심지어 보일러판 요약본으로도요.여러분은 또한 그들이 어떤 중복된 템플릿을 제거해야 하는지에 대해 논의했어야 했다고 지적할 수도 있다.난 아직도 네가 Lfdder의 우둔한 우편물 비강 치료와 그들이 BRD 사이클을 무시한 것에 대해 논평하기를 기다리고 있다.왜 난 네가 여기서 좀 근시안적이라는 느낌을 받을까?드레이미스 (토크) 23:16, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
DGG, 이제 기사 내용을 옹호하는 주장을 제기하는 편집자가 한 명도 아닌 것과 대조적으로, 기사가 가야 한다는 것에 동의하는 두 명의 주제 전문가들이 있다.어떤 주제적인 반론이 없는 상황에서, 먼저 "합의"를 만들 필요는 없다; 합의는 이미 존재한다.이제 필요한 정리가 진행될 수 있도록 허락해 주시겠습니까?Fut.Perf.☼ 22:12, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 AFD로 보내세요만약 편집자가 DGG의 충고부터 시작한다면, 그것은 지금 그곳에 있을 것이다.그렇다고 해서 CSD 후보가 되는 것도 아니고, CSD 태그를 되돌린 후 기사를 사실상 비워두는 것도 용서할 수 없다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 22:15, 2013년 5월 15일(UTC)에 가입[응답]
그러면 누군가가 우리가 실제로 그렇게 할 수 있도록 마침내 그 바보 같은 보호장치를 제거할 것인가?Fut.Perf. 22:17, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
(ec) 동의한다, 보호 해제하고 AfD로 보내자.심판이 몇 년 동안 있었고, 한 주만 더 있어도 해가 없을 것으로 예상된다.---임블란터 (대화) 22:18, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
이제 그 문제에 대해 세 명의 전문가를 찾았기 때문에, 그들 사이에 적어도 단조로운 생각을 떠올릴 만큼 충분한 전문지식을 가지고 있을지도 모른다고 제안하는 것은 무리일까?Andy TheGrump (talk) 22:19, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 아는 한, 나는 그것이 시작하기에 유효한 잠재적인 주제라고 확신할 수 없기 때문에, 쓸 만한 유효한 스텁조차 없다.Fut.Perf. 22:22, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 AFD에 가는 것이 DGG의 제안이었고 계속적인 블랭킹 중단의 위협이 가라앉았기 때문에 AFD로 갈 수 있도록 그것을 보호했다.나는 "이성적"이 적절한 단기적 해결책이라는 것에 동의하기 때문에 그것을 서술자로서 문제 삼을 것이다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 22:21, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
  • 주석 통지 제거 가능 여부에 따라 프로세스가 달라지므로 보호된 문서를 PROD할 수 없음.또한 주제 자체가 주목할 경우, 즉 내용을 토론할 수 있는 프로세스가 존재하지 않는 경우 AfD 프로세스는 스텁의 보존을 지지하기 때문에 여기서 언급할 수 없는 경우 AfD로 기사를 가져가는 논리도 의문이다.아주 간단하게, 편집자는 비소싱 콘텐츠(및 높은 수준의 독창적인 연구를 포함하고 있는 것으로 보이는 콘텐츠)의 진실성에 도전하고 있으며, WP 하에서는 분명히 다음과 같다.출처 없이 내용을 복원해서는 안 된다.우리는 여기에 그것을 "비교적"과 "소포모리아적"이라고 부르는 언어학자가 있으니, 그것을 짧은 상태로 되돌리자.바라건대 다음 시도가 더 유효하기를 바란다.베티 로건 (대화) 22:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 하지만 원래 이슈는 CSD 태그였는데, 전체를 삭제하는 것이었습니다.그래서 AFD는 정확히 그것을 해결하기에 적절한 장소다.삭제만이 유일한 선택은 아니다.다른 사람이 빨리 보내지 않으면 내가 보낼게.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 22:30, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
(ec) 글씨가 서툴고 비협조적("소포믹"은 그것을 포괄한다) 때문에 그것을 "비교적(trivial)"이라고 부르는 것이 아니라, 주제가 완전히 비부정적이고, 흥미가 없으며, 대역폭의 가치가 없기 때문이다.현지 6학년 교사가 쓴 '그린빌 사우스캐롤라이나 영어'에 대한 기사를 비치해 관람객들이 '집'이라고 말할 수 있도록 한 것과 맞먹는다.이 지역의 다른 그리스어와 구별되는 그리스어(사투리도 아니고, 정말로, 그저 현지어 말하기의 다양성)에 대해서는 주목할 만한 것이 없다. --타이보 (토크) 22:35, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
전적으로 동의하다.Lfdder (대화) 22:37, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

여러분, 당신은 Lfdder에게 불공평하게 굴고 있다.그가 요약을 편집하는 "이것과 천재"를 가진 영리한 얼간이였음을 인정하지만, 현실은 문제의 기사가 완전히 비협조적이어서 그것이 삭제되든 말든 간에 그것은 스터빙을 위한 공정한 게임이라는 것을 의미한다.Lfdder가 (이모) 했어야 할 일은 내용을 제거하고 출처를 찾거나 비소싱이라고 태그를 붙인 것이다.그렇다면 2, 3주 내에 출처가 나타나지 않으면 프로드나 후드가 합리적일 것이다.하지만 그가 실제로 한 일 역시 거의 성공적이지 않다.차단에 대한 이야기는 부당하다. --등록박(댓글) 22:45, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

바로 그거야AFD에서 무슨 일이 일어나든 그 내용은 여전히 나와야 하는데, 그것은 기사를 보관하더라도 여전히 비식용적인 "소포모리아적인" 독창적인 연구일 것이기 때문이다.재료의 보존은 AfD와는 무관하다.베티 로건 (토크) 23:02, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
리젠츠파크, 난 그 기사를 말하는 게 아니야. 그건 내 목록의 맨 아래에 있어.잠시 시간을 갖고 그들이 내 능력을 공격한 것을 포함한 나머지를 보아라.드레이미스 (토크) 23:16, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
드레이미스, 이 편집 요약을 말하는 거야?나는 영어가 아닌 것을 이해하기에는 너무 나이가 많은 것 같아.내게는 모두 칠키디키 그리스어다 :) 그러나 진지하게 나는 이 편집자가 요약 편집에 문제가 있다는 것에 동의하지만 더 큰 그림을 보자.우리는 위키피디아에서 비소싱적인 것(분명히 그 물건들은 엉터리인 것 같다)을 제거하려고 하는 편집자가 있고, 기사 보호와 경고의 형태로 뒤로 밀리고 있다(내 생각에, DGG가 그렇게 하는 데 있어서 선을 넘지 않았던 것 같다.약간 격앙된 황소가 설치되었으므로, 그러한 상황에서 용서하고 잊어버리는 것은 나쁜 방법이 아니다.--등록 공원 (토론) 00:10, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
ANI에서의 이 토론은 기사를 보관해야 하는지, 아니면 대충 써야 하는지, 아니면 그렇지 않은지에 대한 것이 아니라는 것을 기억할 필요가 있다; 그 토론은 AfD에 속하는 것이다.이 토론은 그 과정을 피하려는 한 편집자의 행동에 관한 것이지, 그 이상은 아니다.Rklear (대화) 23:31, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 그 논의는 관리자가 도를 넘는 행동을 하는 것에 대한 것이었다.Lfdder (대화) 23:33, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 제 생각에 DGG는 기대한 기준 내에서 완벽하게 행동했고 당신의 행동과 반응은 기껏해야 형편없이 생각되어져 왔다.나는 그 기사를 디프로디드해서 AFD: 위키백과:삭제 조항/찰키디키 그리스데니스 브라운 - - © - @ - WER 23:41, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 그건 충분히 공평하다. :-) 모든 사람이 내 말에 동의할 거라고는 생각하지 않는다.Lfdder (대화) 23:44, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

사방팔방으로 돌아다닌다.나는 이 토론에서 성미가 사방에서 떨어지는 것을 본다.주연 배우에 대해서는, Lfdder와 DGG 모두 다음과 같이 기술적으로 몇 가지 정책을 위반했다.

  • Lfdder는 처음에는 {{prod}}[22]이 아닌 {{delete}}}을(를) 사용함으로써 의도하지 않게 삭제 과정을 잘못 사용했지만, 그 다음에는 스텁으로 [23] A3을 한 다음 기사를 다시 스텁으로 편집하여 최종적으로 [25] 기사를 다시 스텁(그러나 삭제 태그는 더 추가하지 않음)했다.
  • DGG 편집은 비소싱 WP로서 선의의 도전을 받은 후 비소싱 콘텐츠를 다시 도입하기 위해 바뀌었다.OR[26][27](Lfdder의 두 번째 스텁은 내용만 제거했을 뿐 삭제 태그를 더 추가하지 않았다는 점에 유의함) 마침내 DGG는 선호하는 버전[28]에 페이지를 보호했는데, 이는 WP를 위반한 것이다.관련됨.

그리고 서커스를 완성하기 위해 우리는 이 실에서 서로 욕을 하는 관리자들을 두게 한다. 82.137.14.27 (대화) 03:30, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

토크:루카스 호튼#요청된 움직임

이미 루카스 로버츠에게 기사를 옮기자는 의견의 일치가 있었다.그러나 프릭프랙은 사전 요청을 눈치채지 못하고 루카스 호튼에게 다시 기사를 옮겼다.이제 다른 누군가가 WP를 고려하지 않고 내 요청과 유사한 또 다른 요청을 작성했다.RM/TR. 여기 계신 분이 다시 '루카스 로버츠'로 되돌린 다음 최근 요청을 '절차적 폐업'으로 종결할 수 있기를 바란다. --George Ho (토크) 00:03, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Sol1

계정을 차단한 경우:솔1, 그리고 나는 내 행동이 여기서 확인되어 기쁘고 그리고 내가 곧 떠나야 할 필요가 있기 때문에 이 문제에 대한 다른 시선들도 필요하다.솔1은 위키피디아가 잘 알려진 과학자 등의 이름을 사용하는 것에 대해 급속도로 변화를 주고 있다.나는 갈릴레오 갈릴레이라는 그의 정식 이름이나 단지 "갈릴레이"라는 성을 사용하기 위해 갈릴레오라는 이름의 사용이 바뀐 것을 처음 보았다 - [29], [30] 그 이상이었다.좀 더 자세히 살펴보니, 솔1은 유명한 과학자들의 역사적 인물들의 이름을 "괴테"에서 "조한 볼프강 폰 괴테"로, [31], 케플러, 아인슈타인, 하이젠베르크, 슈뢰딩거 등 많은 사용법을 빠르게 바꾸고 있다.그리고 더 많은 것들이 있다 - 특별:을 참조하십시오.기여/Sol1 나는 우리가 통칭(通名)을 사용하고 있고, 그가 그렇게 광범위한 변화를 일으키려면 대화를 해야 한다는 점을 지적하는 메시지를 두어 개 남겼지만, 나는 아무런 반응을 얻지 못했고 그는 빠른 속도로 계속하고 있었다.그래서 나는 그를 막고 그의 주의를 끌기 위해 블럭을 발행했다.그래서, 내가 다음 사항을 요청해도 될까?

  • 내 행동을 확인하고 그것이 합리적이라고 생각하는지 알아봐라.
  • Sol1의 기여도를 살펴보고 불합리하다고 생각될 경우 되돌리도록 지원하십시오.
  • 새로운 사용자가 이렇게 빠른 속도로 대규모 변경 작업을 수행하는 것에 대해 의심스러운 점이 있는지 확인해 보십시오.

고마워 -- 보잉! 제베디(토크) 19:32, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답하라]

이상해. 좋은 블럭이야.사용자가 부 편집 플래그도 잘못 사용하고 있다. --John (talk) 19:37, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
FYI 페이지 이동을 위해 부 플래그가 자동으로 추가된다.이 중 어느 것도 잘못된 것은 없으며, 리디렉션을 삭제하는 것이 더 낫다고 결정하는 데 아무런 문제가 없다고 본다. 그리고 그것은 확실히 사소한 편집이다. 위의 사용자가 한 이 편집[33]을 되돌리는 것은 불합리했다.갈릴레오는 2011년 9월 12일부터 이 과학자의 정식 명칭으로 전환되었다.괴테는 2008년 9월 9일 이후 요한 볼프강 폰 괴테로 전향했다.나는 사과와 함께 차단해제를 제안할 것이다.압데바 (대화) 22:47, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
참고. 되돌아온 첫 번째 차이점은 갈릴레오를 갈릴레이로 바꾼 것이라고 생각하는데, 두 번째 연결고리를 제거했어야 한다는 점을 제외하면 정확하게 되돌아온 것이다.그래서 일부 편집은 의심스러웠지만, 대부분은 그저 리디렉션을 제거하고 있는 것 같다.그들은 갈릴레이 대신 갈릴레이를 내가 인용한 파이프에 사용했지만, 아까 갈릴레이를 사용했다.Apteva (대화) 23:04, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 우리의 기사가 아인슈타인인지 알버트 아인슈타인인지 확인할 필요가 없다.Apteva (대화) 23:06, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
두 분 다 행정관인데 이렇게 편집을 하고 계신 겁니까?[34]Atteva (대화) 23:22, 2013년 5월 13일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 실제로 솔1이 했던 것처럼 리디렉션 "고정"을 금하는 지침을 가지고 있다; WP:R#NOTBRANK. 존의 반전은 그들이 현상유지를 복원했기 때문에 완벽하게 타당했다.그 블록에 대해 말하자면, 그래, 나는 괜찮아 보인다 - 토론이 분명히 더 바람직하지만, 때때로 누군가 멈추게 하는 유일한 방법은 실제로 그들을 멈추게 하는 것이고, 그것은 이 경우에 해당했던 것 같다.2013년 5월 14일(UTC) 07:08, 윤슈이슈 07:08[응답]
리디렉션은 수정할 필요가 없으며 편집 비용이 매우 많이 들지만, 완벽하게 유효한 수정사항을 되돌리는 것을 용서하지 않는다는 것을 나는 알고 있다. 따라서 다른 어떤 것이 편집 비용을 보증할 때 다시 수정해야 하는 또 다른 편집을 만든다.편집한 내용을 그대로 두고 갈릴레오를 갈릴레이로 바꾸는 것과 같이 실제로 고쳐야 할 부분만 고치는 것이 최선이다.편집자는 저것과 일관성이 없었고, 때로는 하나를, 때로는 다른 하나를 사용했다.그러나 누군가가 이미 아인슈타인에게 리디렉션을 제거했다면, 대신 파이프를 씌우지 않고 다시 집어넣을 이유가 없다.기사는 알버트 아인슈타인에 있다. 솔1은 아인슈타인에서 알버트 아인슈타인으로 연결고리를 바꾼다. 수정은 아인슈타인에게 다시 돌려놓지 않는 것이다. 그러나 만약 그 기사가 아인슈타인 대신 아인슈타인을 사용하여 더 잘 읽힌다면, 아인슈타인으로 다시 돌아가지 말고 알버트 아인슈타인으로 바꿔라.복원은 편집을 "해제"하지 않으며, 새로운 편집이며 다른 편집과 마찬가지로 비용이 많이 든다.새로 온 사람들을 물어뜯는 것에 대해 이야기해보라. 하지만 새로운 사람이 첫날 500개의 편집을 하는 것은 매우 드문 일이다.Apteva (대화) 09:02, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
WP:R#NOTBROKEN does actually say "It is almost never helpful to replace [[redirect]] with [[target redirect]]", so that does appear to support [[Einstein]] rather than [[Albert Einstein Einstein]] - and it gives reasons why a simple redirect is better -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
그 부분은 덜 독단적일 필요가 있다.나는 [아인슈타인]을 쓰는 것이 [Albert Einstein]을 쓰는 것보다 결코 더 좋다는 개념을 지지할 수 없으며, 다른 것도 하지 않고 한쪽을 다른 방향으로 바꾸는 편집도 지지할 수 없다.리디렉션이 좋은 상황은, 아인슈타인에 관한 기사가 없는 경우, 기사가 작성될 때까지 상대성이라고 말하는 것으로 리디렉션되지만, 일단 리다이렉트된 것은 수정할 수 있다.우리는 리디렉션을 뒤로하고 항상 기사 이름을 옮긴다.이중 리디렉션은 우리가 해결하지만, 나는 결국 나머지를 정리하지 않을 이유가 없다고 본다.어떤 경우에도, 그 합의는 사용자가 리디렉션만 수정하는 것에 반대한다는 것은 분명하다.압데바 (대화) 02:04, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 부분이 이미 논의 중이라는 것을 알았다.토크 페이지 "간단한' 리디렉션(예: 대체 이름)에 대한 링크로 연결된 링크를 교체하는 것은 무의미하거나 최소한 WP의 요점은 아니다.NOT BROCKED. 설명 순서가 될 수 있음, 예" Apteva (토크) 02:10, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
제베디(토크) 07:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]은 정책 페이지를 바꾸는 포럼은 아니지만, 현재 상태로는 존의 단순한 반전을 지지하고 있다.

새로운 사용자들에 대해서: 그들은 드웨키에 경험이 많은 것 같다.그러나 이는 그들이 먼저 토론하지 않았고, 대화 페이지 메시지에 응답하지 않았다는 것을 더욱 걱정하게 만든다.HHHIPO 07:02, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 편집 이력으로 판단하건 간에 이전에 논의하지 않고 기사를 옮기고 사실상 모든 것을 사소한 편집으로 표시하는 등 거기서 정확히 같은 종류의 편집을 한다.그래서 그가 2008년 편집 전쟁으로 디위키에서 단 한 번만 차단되었다는 것은 놀라운 일이다.토마스W (토크) 08:53, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
아, 그래서 그들이 사용자 토크 페이지 메시지를 본 적이 없다는 것을 전혀 눈치채지 못한 것 같다(오렌지 바가 사라졌다는 사실은 신경 쓰지 말라).아마도 그들은 영어를 거의 이해하지 못하지만, 리디렉션에서 "여기 어떤 링크"를 클릭하는 방법과 기사 이름을 잘라내어 붙여넣고 저장해 두는 방법을 알고 있을 것이다.그것은 또한 왜 그들이 영어로 갈릴레오가 그들의 성이 아닌 그들의 이름으로 일반적으로 알려져 있다는 것을 몰랐을지도 설명해준다.독일인들은 정돈된 것을 좋아하는 경향이 있고 리디렉션은 드에 대해 더 넓게 눈살을 찌푸리게 될 가능성이 있다.나는 두 위키 사이에 엄청난 차이가 있다는 것을 안다.Apteva (대화) 09:02, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 좋은 블럭이야.우리는 그들이 그들의 토크 페이지에서 토론에 관심이 있는지 지켜봐야 할 것이다.거의 머리가 없는 {c} 10:36, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
무슨 일이 일어나는지 봐야겠지만, 나는 그가 답장을 꺼리는 것이 영어에만 국한된 것이 아니라는 것을 알아챘다.그는 독일어 위키백과의 반달리즘usmeldung(반달리즘 보고서) 페이지에 대한 다섯 가지 토론에 참여했고, 그 중 가장 최근의 것에 대해서만 논평했다.그 보고서의 내용은 나보다 독일어를 잘 하는 사람을 필요로 할 것이다.Steve McCluskey (대화) 21:25, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 (독일어는 나의 모국어지만, 독일어 위키피크는 그렇지 않다는 것을 인정해야 한다.)라는 표정을 지었다.이것은 여기와 비슷한 그림이며, 수 많은 편집과 유용한 것들이지만, 또한 많은 것들이 정책의 가장자리에 있고 이전에 논의되었어야 하는 것들이기도 하다.6건의 ANI 사건 중 2건은 그가 미미하게만 연루된 사건이고, 나머지 사건들은 이번 사건과 다소 유사하다.무슨 일이 일어나는지 알겠다HHHIPO 22:15, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
...그리고 그들 중 가장 최근의 것에 대해서만 논평했다.그리고 제 코멘트는 기사의 토크 페이지에 댓글을 달았다는 것이었습니다.나는 더 편집된 전쟁과 아무 관련이 없었다. 그 전쟁은 페이지 의 일시적 보호로 이어졌다.프레이 와일드다른 경우에는 내가 조금 관여했거나 내 토크 페이지나 기사의 토크 페이지에서 논의가 있었다. --Sol1 (토크) 21:36, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

우리가 통칭을 사용하고 있고, 그가 그렇게 광범한 변화를 원한다면 대화를 해야 한다고 지적하는 메시지를 두어 번 남겼지만, 나는 아무런 반응을 얻지 못했고 그는 빠른 속도로 계속 가고 있었다.그것은 꽤 정확하지 않다.나는 19:06에 첫 메시지를 받고 갈릴레오 편집과 함께 멈췄다가 19:16에 막혔는데, 아마도 이 편집은 불합리하다고 보기 힘들 것이다.그래서 내가 그 문제에 대해 기꺼이 토론해 보았지만, 만약 '갈릴레오'가 '갈릴레오'나 그 반대쪽보다 더 좋다면, 경고 직후 이 거대한 회전이 블록과 결합한 것은 나에게 많은 일이었고, 그래서 나는 다시 침착해지기 위해 하루 동안 위키피디아를 떠났다.만약 내가 신참이었다면 위키백과를 영원히 떠났을 것이고, 이 프로젝트에 대한 나의 믿음을 회복시켜주는 Apteva에게 보내는 게시물을 결코 읽지 않았을 것이다. --Sol1 (토크) 21:15, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 그것이 "포스팅 대상"이 아닌 "포스팅 기준"으로 의도된 것이라고 추측한다.압데바 (대화) 21:40, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 19:06:당신의 대규모 급속화력 변화를 본 나는 (갈릴레오가 그저 본보기에 불과했던) 우호적인 경고를 드렸다.
  • 19:08:성씨를 풀네임으로 바꾸셨습니다.
  • 19:08:나는 역사적 인물의 명명법에 대해 논의되지 않은 양식적 변경을 하지 말아 달라고 부탁했다.
  • 19:14:다른 기사에서 또 그랬구나.
  • 19:14: 하고 있던 일을 멈추고 의논해 달라고 다시 부탁했다.
  • 19:15:또 다른 기사와 비슷한 변화를 주셨습니다.
  • 19:16: 주의를 끌려는 의도였음을 분명히 하면서 나는 너를 차단했다 - 나는 너의 빠른 변화 속도에 걱정했고 짧은 블록이 가장 피해를 덜 주는 행동이라고 결정했다.
그때 네가 해야 할 일은 그런 속도로 계속하기보다는 일을 의논하는 데 대답하고 동의하는 것뿐이었고, 내가 즉각 차단을 풀었을 것이다.--보잉! (대화) 제베디 (토론) 21:54, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
솔직히, 나는 에코가 생방송된 이후 누군가가 내 토크 페이지에 답장을 보낼 때 흔히 듣는 '새로운 토크 메시지' 템플릿을 이해하지 못한다.그리고 대부분의 경우 메아리가 나에게 알리는 데는 5분에서 몇 분 정도 걸리고 심지어 아주 작은 빨간 숫자도 여전히 걸린다.고양이와 쥐 놀이는 결코 좋은 일이 아니지만, 업데이트와 함께 알림 시스템이 바뀌었고 한 달 전처럼 작동하지 않는 것 같아.어쩌면 이 사건에도 적용이 될까?ChrisGualtieri (대화) 03:52, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇다, 나는 새로운 알림 시스템이 사용자의 즉각적인 관심을 끌기에 적합하지 않다고 생각한다.그러나 충분한 통지가 없고 최소한 사용자의 행동 방침이 일시적으로 중단되어야 할 때, 블록만 남아 있으면 된다 - 그리고 나는 그 블록이 솔1의 주의를 끌기 위한 것이라는 것을 분명히 했다고 생각했다. -- 보잉! (토크) 제베디 (토크) 07:58, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자가 원본 정보를 계속 삭제함

노바스콜라는 소스화된 정보를 계속 삭제하는데, 그는 그것이 말하는 것을 믿고 싶지 않기 때문이다.문제의 기사인 이바드 후세이노프는 카라바흐 전쟁 당시 아르메니아 군인을 참수했던 아제르바이잔 군인이다.아제르바이잔은 노바스콜라와 마찬가지로 살해된 개인이 아르메니아의 영웅 몬테 멜코니아인이라고 주장하지만 아제르바이잔의 소식통으로부터 (그래서 아르메니아인들에 대한 편견이 없는) 내가 올린 증거는 그렇지 않다는 것을 보여준다.그는 후세노프에 관한 영화에서 인용하여 계속해서 내 글을 삭제하고 살해된 사람이 몬테라고 주장했다.그래서 나는 페이지를 편집하고 두 부분을 모두 남겼는데, 비록 서로 모순되지만 그는 그것을 반달리즘이라고 다시 한번 내 글을 삭제했다.아제르바이잔의 한 유적지에서 온 후세이노프가 머리와 함께 있는 사진과 몬테의 장례 사진을 올렸다.그는 그것을 또 삭제했다.나는 개인이 소스 정보를 계속 삭제하기 때문에 조치가 필요하다고 생각한다.또한 이 사용자는 다른 수많은 경우에 이 작업을 수행했다.구바 미사묘에 대한 기사에 대해서는 무덤에 대한 자세한 내용을 담은 소싱 문단을 올렸고, 그는 그것이 편파적이라고 주장하며 계속 삭제했다.이뿐 아니라 그 페이지의 편집 이력을 보면, 그는 내가 편집한 내용을 되돌려서 읽는 것이 마음에 안 든다는 이유만으로 반달리즘으로 분류했다.나네토야돔 (대화) 01:17, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

이 글에는 많은 문제가 있고, 제거되고 있는 근원이 있지만, 믿을 수 있는 것은 사람에게 귀속되어야 할 사실을 위키피디아 목소리로 진술하는 데 사용되고 있다.그건 안 돼.리틀 그린 로제타(토크)
센트럴 정밀검사기
01:39, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 이 글에 많은 문제가 있다는 것에 동의한다. 이 사람은 전쟁에서 싸운 것 외에는 아무 것도 하지 않았기 때문에 나는 그것이 한 페이지를 구성하는지는 모르겠다.많은 사람들이 후세이노프를 찾을 때 이 페이지를 찾을 것이고, 그가 몬테 멜코니안을 죽였다고 주장하는 명백한 거짓말을 볼 때 그들은 또한 거짓말을 하게 될 것이다.내가 올린 글은 전쟁 중에 싸운 아제르바이잔 장군과의 인터뷰를 인용한 것으로, 누가 누구를 죽였는지 알 수 있도록 한 것이다.노바스콜라는 그것을 계속 삭제하고 기본적으로 선전 영화인 후세이노프에 관한 다큐멘터리의 발췌본을 덧붙인다.나인토야돔 (대화) 03:58, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
안녕하십니까, 참수 사진이 포함된 일부 사이트의 기본 사진이 들어있어서 정보를 삭제했고, 극단주의자들만큼 많은 사람들이 볼 수 있다.여기서 보듯이(마지막 참조, 어떤 출처에서도 신뢰할 수 있는 또는 신뢰할 수 없는 것으로 확인되지 않는 참수 사진에 대한 링크를 명확하게 포함)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ibad_Huseynov&diff=554953491&oldid=554944195 Ninyatoyadome은 아무런 경고도 없이 내 편집 내용을 삭제했고, 그 사진의 극단주의 내용을 알게 됨으로써 내 편집 내용을 번복하고 일부 블로그에서 편향된 정보를 추가했다.따라서 그는 극단주의 자료에 대한 위키피디아의 지침을 무시했기 때문에 경고/처벌을 받아야 한다.--NovaSkola (대화) 12:46, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

이미지 이전에 당신이 이유 없이 삭제한 편향되지 않은 인터뷰를 게시했었습니다.계속 삭제했다가 둘 다 남았다고 주장하셨잖아요.내가 둘 다 떠났는데 아직도 네가 내 글을 삭제했잖아.당신이 설명할 수 있어요?아제르바이잔 장군과의 인터뷰를 올렸는데, 아르메니아 장군이라면 편파적이라고 말하겠지만 아제르바이잔 장군이었다.그 사람에 대한 선전 영화에서 글을 올렸잖아.나네토야돔 (대화) 16:39, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
사실 너는 나보다 먼저 내 정보를 삭제했고, 내가 만든 기사도 제3자의 정보를 추가해서 편집했어.당신이 얻은 정보는 아무나 쓸 수 있는 임의의 블로그에서 나온다.더군다나 당신의 이력을 확인한 결과, 편파적인 정보를 덧붙여서 아제르바이잔 기사를 파괴하는 인터미션 이전에 훨씬 많은 경고를 받은 것을 알게 되었다. --NovaSkola (대화) 18:46, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]


Contact.az은 블로그가 아니라 뉴스 웹사이트다.너는 영화에서 나온 것을 증거로 올리고 내 출처를 비판했어.2013년 3월 4일 인터뷰를 올렸었는데, 당신은 예고 없이 2013년 5월 12일 '정상 상태로 돌아가고 편향된 정보를 제거했다'는 말만 남긴 채 이를 삭제했는데, 지금은 아제르바이잔의 정보와 상반되는 아제르바이잔의 정보가 편향된 정보인 만큼 우스꽝스럽다.보아하니 너 말고는 아무도 문제가 없었구나.나는 아제르바이잔 페이지를 파손한 것에 대해 경고를 받은 적이 없다. 유일한 경고는 아르메니아 페이지를 끊임없이 파괴하는 트롤과 내가 복원(전쟁 편집)하는 것에 대한 것이다.당신은 구바 미사 무덤 기사에 나와 같은 행동을 했고, 나의 추가사항을 "반달리즘"이라고 불렀다.아제르바이잔 기사들은 피해. 아르메니아와 관련이 없다면 말이야.나네토야돔 (대화) 19:37, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
허위 주장을 쓰지 마십시오.나는 contact.az에 대해 말하는 것이 아니라, 나는 당신이 참수 사진을 포함한 foto.radikal.ru에 대해 말하는 것이다.모더들이 누가 옳고 그른지 결정하도록 하겠다.--노바스콜라 (대화) 22:01, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
http://www.contact.az/docs/2012/Interview/102300015729en.htm#.UZRO07WG2Sp도 같은 사진을 보여주고 있어, 딱 한 번 올렸을 뿐이다.당신은 편파적이라고 주장하며 내 변경사항을 계속 수정했고 방금 당신은 "제3자로부터 정보를 보충했다"고 말했다.당신이 얻은 정보는 임의의 블로그에서 나온 것인데, 그것은 누구나 쓸 수 있다"고 말했다. 그래서 그렇다 나는 거짓 주장을 한다.나네토야돔 (대화) 03:15, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
많은 사이트들이 극단주의적인 자료를 가질 수 있는데, 그것은 그것이 승인되었다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다. 특히 위키피디아에서는 다양한 연령대의 독자들이 있다.그런 사진은 어린이의 기억을 해칠 수 있다.--노바스콜라 (대화) 13:28, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:요노2013년

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Jono2013 (토크 · 기여)은 상당히 문제가 있는 것 같다.그들은 두 번이나 아프데드(AfDed)가 된 '정력적으로 변형된 시멘트'라는 기사를 썼다. 일단 지명이 철회되면서 마감되고, 제2의 아프디(AfD)가 진행 중이다.첫 번째 AFD의 첫 번째 논평(디프: [35])부터, 그들은 사람들의 배경, 공공 기물 파손에 대한 잘못된 비난, 그리고 다른 매우 한계적인 발언들에 대해 부적절한 발언을 했다.철회 후 첫 번째 AfD가 공백이 되기 전에(아마도 Jono2013의 발언 때문에), 이것이 바로 [36]이다.그것은 이 사용자에 의한 많은 텍스트 벽들, 몇몇 이상한 포맷 문제, 그리고 이 보석과 같은 완전히 미친 비난/코멘트를 보여준다.

  • 흐루즈비그27512가 누구인지, 그리고 관심의 충돌이 있는지, 예를 들어 포틀랜드 시멘트 산업의 "경쟁하는 학회"나 심지어 위에 언급된 소송에 관여하는 사람까지/"모르는" 것인지(그 중 나는 전혀 알지 못한다. 내가 아는 것이라곤 올해 4월 26일에 합류한 흐린 jbg27512가 이 기사가 처음 출판된 후, 위키 정책을 두 번 무시했고, 그의 사용자 페이지에서 정당성에 대한 나의 요청을 삭제했다는 것뿐이다. 다시 한 번, 사육을 지지해주신 모든 분들께 감사드린다. 그리고 Cloudjbg27512에게 COI가 없다면 "상식을 본 것" (주춧돌 위키 정책)에 감사하고, 이것으로부터 배우길 바란다 - 나는 당신이 매우 즐거운 주말을 보냈다고 믿는다. 왜냐하면 당신은 분명히 내 것을 "위쪽으로" 돌렸기 때문이다. Jono2013 (토크) 14:33, 2013년 5월 6일 (UTC) (전체 인용문은 아니지만, 문맥에서 나온 것도 아니다)

그들은 또한 투표와 상관없이 거의 모든 논평자들에게 똑같이 공격적인 태도로 응답했다.어쨌든, 여기 있는 현재의 AfD로 가봅시다.이 사용자는 AfD 태그의 모든 캡, 매우 공격적인 응답, 파괴적인 제거(한 번 잘못된 공공 기물 파손 혐의 포함, [37][38])를 계속 사용했지만, 대부분의 투표에서 (나를 포함) 유지했음에도 불구하고 더 공격적인 응답을 계속 사용해 왔다.AfD에 대한 나의 논평에 이어, 사용자는 나의 토크 페이지에 올라와서 그들의 토크 페이지[39]에 대한 그들의 회신을 알려주었다. 그 때 나는 그들의 토크 페이지[40]에 몇 가지 합리적인 진술을 했고, 나는 이 텍스트의 벽[41]을 받았고, 그 후 나는 그의 발언을 내 강연에서 삭제했다.훨씬 덜 주목할만한 기사인 위키백과의 AfD를 살펴보자.삭제/Vladimir Ronin에 대한 조항은 이 사용자의 동일한 행동을 보여준다.슬프게도, 나는 WP에 의한 변명을 요청하고 있다.NOTHERE: 그들의 편집 스타일은 홍보적인데, 그것은 고정할 수 있다; 그러나 그들의 의사소통 방법은 너무 아쉬워하고 사람들을 좌절하게 만든다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말해) 2013년 5월 15일 19:28 (UTC)[응답하라]


나는 코멘트를 하고 싶은 사람이라면 먼저 내가 두 명의 AfDs에 올린 방대한 기록을 읽을 것을 제안한다.위 사용자가 게시하기 전에 게시한 내용들이다.

여기 주요 저자는 오직 한 명뿐이다: 나. 로닌 교수는 그 글과 아무런 관련이 없다.그럼에도 불구하고, 사용자들은 그의 말에 너무 조심스러워하고 있다.그리고, 아니, 난 전혀 "사명성" 문제가 없어.나는 단지 사람들이 위키 정책을 무시하고 먼저 논의하지 않고 삭제하도록 지명하는 것에 문제가 있다.

사용자들의 의견을 고맙게 생각하는 경우가 많았다.나의 입장은 원칙적인 이유, 즉 기사의 정확성을 보장하기 위함이다.이 기사와 사진, 스터브, 그리고 이 기사와 함께 삭제해야 할 광범위한 내역이 AfDs에 기록으로 기록되어 있다.더 나아가

  • 정력적으로 변형된 시멘트 제품의 첫 AfD 과정 동안, 나는 폐기물이 있었다는 것을 기억하지 못한다.사실 나는 양쪽의 AfDs에 폐기물이 있었던 것을 기억하지 못한다.
  • 나는 그 기사에 대해 경험이 많은 사용자로부터 헛별을 받았다.
  • 로닌은 위키피디아로부터 자기와 나에 대한 공격을 받은 것에 대해 사과를 받았다.
  • 이미지 삭제는 다음과 같은 훈계로 "유지"로 해결했다.나는 그것이 여기서 적절하다고 믿는다.
논의의 결과는: 이 엉망진창인/계속 마무리 - 허가서가 OTRS 티켓 2013051410005944로 수신되었다.관련된 모든 사람들은 예의 바르게 행동해야 하며 경험이 없는 편집자들을 물지 말아야 한다.우리는 우리의 과정을 탐색하는데 어려움을 겪는 사람들을 도와야 해, 고소가 아니라. --B (대화) 15:11, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 어떠한 "고발"도 하지 않았다.나는 그 문제에 필요한 전문지식을 갖추지 못한 사람들의 변화로부터 내 작품을 강력히 옹호해 왔다.이것은 기사의 정확성을 위해서입니다.나는 그러한 익스텐트에 대해 "불확실한" 것을 지적하려고 노력했지만, 그것은 아무런 차이가 없다.
  • 나는 한 가지 유감스러운 말을 했는데, 그 사용자가 내가 그를 욕하는 것으로 오해했다.나는 주말을 완전히 뒤집어 쓰고 나서 피곤했다. 매우 피곤했다.그러나 나는 그가 삭제하지 않은 사용자의 토크 페이지에서 크게 사과했다.
"네 이름을 부르는 것은 내 의도가 아니었고, 그 때문에 내가 그런 인상을 준다면 사과하겠어.필자는 한 달 동안 페이지 작업을 해왔고, 사용자들로 인해 이것이 "팔의장 변호사" 주제라는 실수를 저지르는 등 막바지에 다다랐다.그 페이지 자체는 상당히 "dumbed down"되어 있다 - 그리고 당신은 내가 문맥화를 위해 최선을 다한 것을 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있을 것이다.그것은 WIP이며 20년 이상의 결과와 현장 데이터가 과학적으로 흥미가 있는 모든 수준의 독자들에게 어필하기 위해 "스냅샷" 페이지로 거래되는 매우 복잡한 것이다.그러나 아무리 노력해도 '간단하게' 할 수 있는 한계가 있는 과목도 있다.그래서 나는 확실히 불쾌함을 의미하는 것은 아니었고, 나는 단지 매우 피곤할 뿐이고, 한 달 동안 조용히 페이지를 만들고 난 후, 나는 어떤 사용자가 먼저 토론도 하지 않고 삭제하기 위해 그것을 게시했기 때문에 모든 것을 오른쪽과 가운데로 방어하는 격심한 주말을 보냈다. 금요일에, 나는 새로운 사용자임에도 불구하고, 이것을 한 번도 한 적이 없고 페이지는 W.IP. 나는 그 모든 경험이 매우 전문적이지 않다는 것을 알았다.나는 은퇴한 생명과학 수석 교수다 - 그리고 58년 동안, 나는 이것이 내가 위키에 기고했던 유일한 페이지가 될 것이라고 말할 수 있다.나는 "최고의 의도적인" 작가는 벽에 기대는 반면, 표면이 빠르게 드러나고 극단적인 행동을 취하는 사람들이 어떻게 처벌할 수 없는 것처럼 보이는지 내 "강심성"이 소름 끼친다.
어떤 악의가 있더라도 사과한다.나는 이것이 너의 호의에 맞기를 바란다.
2013년 5월 7일 14시 15분(UTC)에 안부 전한다."


요노2013 (대화)20:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 교수님이 연루되었다는 것에 대해 내가 어디서 무슨 말을 했는지 모르겠다.그러나 다시 한번 WP의 월-오-오-텍스트(Wall-of-Text)로 답변하셨습니다.IDHT. 루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 20:34, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 단지 내가 "지불 과정"을 추구한다는 이유, 즉 당신이 먼저 상의하지 않고 실행한 조치를 취한 후라는 이유 때문에 전문 용어를 사용하지 말고 "반격"을 중지하십시오.당신은 한 명 이상의 작가가 있다는 것을 암시하기 위해 여러 번 "그들"을 말했다.당신은 로닌이 위키피디아에 보낸 이메일과 응답을 무시했다.만약 네가 학업을 고려하고 있다면, 나는 너에게 매우 공손한 조언을 해줄 시간을 줬어.심지어 은퇴한 58세 선배부터 18세 선배까지 모든 행운이 있길 바랐어.나의 표현에 대한 너의 "증오"는 거의 눈에 띈다.

요노2013 (대화)20:41, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 위키백과 정책을 말하는 겁니다.나는 이미 너의 행동에 대해 너와 상의하려고 했고, 황당한 답변을 받았어.그 AfD에 있는 대부분의 사용자들은 당신의 행동에 대해 우려의 목소리를 냈다; 적어도 한 명은 차단을 요구했다.로닌이 위키피디아로 보낸 이메일은 절대적으로 관련이 없다. ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니라 사용자 행동에 관한 것이기 때문이다.또, 도대체 그 마지막 문장으로 무슨 말을 하려는 거야?그건 아직 또 다른 터무니없는 말인 것 같아.*우울함* 루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함)20:54, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
0에서 Godwin까지 아무것도 아닌 곳에서.[42]ENG (대화) 03:40, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 보기에 AFD는 점점 심해지고 있고, 조노2013의 공격적인 행동은 편집자들이 그에게 의심을 살 만한 이익을 주지 않고, 실제로 기사 삭제를 요구하는 결과를 초래했다(그래서 더 중립적인 기사를 쓸 수 있다).그 토크 페이지 메시지는 늘 그렇듯이, 전혀 어울리지 않는다.루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 07:06, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]

조노2013은 사생활을 상당히 개인적으로 받아들이고 있는 것 같다.조노2013은 그냥 좀 쉬면서 진정하면 될 것 같아.나는 조노2013의 편집 내용을 파괴적인 것으로 특징짓지 않을 것이기 때문에 적절한 조치가 무엇인지 잘 모르겠다.사용자가 방해하지 않는 한, WP당 블록의 원인이 되지 않는다.재사용 대기.초월(토크) 08:11, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 그것들은 파괴적이었다.그들은 이전에 AfD 태그(경고 후 중단)를 제거했는데, 다른 사용자들이 경쟁 회사에 고용되어 있고, 주제에 대해 전혀 알지 못하며, 욕설을 하는 등, 그들이 끊임없이 비난하는 것은 혼란의 정의가 아닌가?루케노94 (루크에게 여기서 나가라고 말함) 08:40, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나도 내 의견을 믿어야겠다고 생각했어.여기 있는 우리들 중 대부분은 위키피디아가 특히 랜디스가 등장하기 시작할 때 그들의 주제에 대한 전문가들을 잘 다루지 않는다는 사실을 잘 알고 있어야 한다.명심해, 난 이 사건에서 누군가를 하나라고 비난하지는 않지만, 여기서 많은 일이 일어나고 있어.조노2013의 학력을 감안할 때(여기서 AGF를 진행 중) 전문 학계에서 시간을 보낸 사람이라면 누구나 필요할 때 자신의 일을 힘차게, 심지어 소리 높여 방어하는 것이 일반적이다.비록 그것이 WP에 자리를 잡았지만, Johno2013은 분명히 그렇지 않지만, AFD 과정에 익숙한 사람들은 이것이 특히 ABF가 참여하게 되면 반대파들을 압도할 수 있다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.내가 보기에 조노2013, 여기가 당신이 WP에서 잘못 시작했던 곳이다.그는 WP를 학문적 토론의 장으로 보고 WP에 접근해 왔으며, 아직 이 주변에서 어떻게 일이 처리되는지, 그리고 한동안 그 블록을 맴돌았던 우리들에게 친숙하지 않은 것이, 모든 혼란의 흔적을 가지고 있다는 뉘앙스를 포착하지 못했다.요노2013에게 학력은 위키백과와 무관하다. 우리는 여기에 우리의 연구를 게재하지 않고 단지 보고만 하고 있기 때문이다.그렇다, 주제 전문가가 되는 것은 도움이 되지만 여기서 기사가 어떻게 보도되어야 하는지도 간과한다.반면, 주제 전문가는 아니지만 위키의 다양한 측면들이 어떻게 작용하는지 잘 아는 사람들은 위키 정책과 가이드라인에 제시된 기대에 부응하기 위해 기사가 어떻게 구성되어야 하는지에 도움이 될 수 있다.조노2013을 새로운 편집자에게 환멸을 주는 것 외에는 거의 도움이 되지 않는 위키자르곤으로 몰아붙이기 보다는, 나는 우리 모두가 몇 걸음 뒤로 물러서서 우리의 노크들을 끌어올리지 말 것을 제안한다.블랙매인 (대화) 11시 20분, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 블랙매인에 동의한다.나는 위키피디아가 전문가에게 제시하는 도전, 독특한 도전들을 이해할 수 있도록 돕기 위한 조용한 시도로 전문가 편집자와 유익한 대화가 되기를 바라는 것을 나의 토크 페이지에 열었다.콘텐츠 전문가가 아닌 우리 전문가들이 성취한 것은 잠재적으로 숙련되고 능력 있는 편집자를 화나게 한 것이다.우리가 대립하지 않는 방식으로 대화를 할 수 없다면 열차 난파선에서 물러날 필요가 있다.나는 물러설 필요가 있는 이 필요성에 그를 포함시켰다.우리의 목표는 확실히 백과사전을 만드는 것이지, 가치 있는 새로운 편집자들을 화나게 하고 밀어내는 것이 아니다.
그 물건은 그 나름의 장점에 따라 서거나 떨어질 필요가 있다.여기, 그리고 다른 곳에서는, 우리는 우리의 새로운 편집자들을 향해 미소를 짓고 그들을 이 이상한 세상에 들어오게 격려해야 한다.모든 사람들이 그것을 '가득'하는 것이 아니라, 그렇게 하는 사람들은 위키피디아라는 기괴한 작업 방식을 즐기기 시작하는 경향이 있다.그러니 더 많이 웃고 우리 새 친구를 안내해줘.우리가 그를 설득할 수만 있다면, 조노2013은 여기 자산이다.그는 우리의 독특한 방법으로 교육할 가치가 있다.하지만 모든 새로운 편집자들처럼, 그는 아직 이곳에서도 경험이 없다.FiddleFaddle 11:31, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
문제는 그가 위키백과 방법에 익숙하지 않다는 데 있는데, 그가 이곳에 처음 와서가 아니라, 듣고 배우기를 거부하고, 그를 가르치려는 시도에 적대적으로 반응하기 때문이다.그 대표적인 예가 내가 특별히 그에게 그러한 정책은 없으며 먼저 논의하지 않고 삭제하도록 지명하는 것은 지극히 정상적인 것이라고 말한 후 "위키 정책을 무시하고 먼저 삭제하도록 지명하는 사람들"에 대한 그의 언급이다. (그리고 당신이 묻기 전에, 그는 내 의견을 읽었음에도 불구하고 여전히 이 을 분명히 한다.)먼저 논의하지 않고 AfD 후보 지명을 계속한다.)Side713 (대화) 12:02, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
특이한 문제도 아니고 난해한 문제도 아니다.우리는 전에 본 적이 있고 또 보게 될 것이다.우리가 당면한 과제는 이 문제를 점잖게 처리하는 것이다침착하고 끈질긴 인내가 이런 경우, 효과가 없는 것 같을 때에도 우세한 경향이 있다.위키백과라는 알파벳 수프에 모두들 어느 순간 화가 난다.우리가 그것을 잘, 그리고 민감하게 다룰 수 있을 만큼 큰지, 아니면 무경험을 불친절한 행동으로 만나는지를 판단해야 한다.Fiddle Faddle 12:49, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

위키백과 논쟁 목록

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

위키백과 논쟁 목록은 기존의 편집자들만이 편집할 수 있도록 보호되어야 한다.사용자: Thekohser는 이 프로젝트에 대한 책임을 지지 않고 여기서 그의 변명의 금지를 어기고 있다.[43] 위키백과:Sockpuppet 조사/Thekohser는 이것이 사실이라는 것을 보여준다.우리 모두는 이 기사가 위키피디아 정치에서 나온 트롤링 연습이라는 것을 알고 있다.

한편, 지난 한 달 동안 나는 테코허(NJ 로렐 산의 모든 IP)와 에릭 바버(샌프란시스코 컴캐스트의 모든 IP)가 지미의 토크 페이지를 통해 이 커뮤니티를 돌아다니는 것에 대해 조언하는 20여명의 관리자들에게 접근해 왔으며, 단 한 명도 차단되지 않았다.내가 받는 일반적인 합의는 사람들이 이 광대들과 그들의 동료 트롤링 사이드킥의 표적이 되는 것을 두려워한다는 것이다.나는 이 행정가들의 입장을 존중하지만, 괴롭힘 당하고, 쫓겨나고, 욕을 먹고, 그런 것들은 좋지 않다. 하지만, 이 지역사회가 그 문제에 대해 뭔가 조치를 취할 수 있도록 동조를 키워야 할 때가 되었다.루사비아 (대화)20:32, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

  • WP:RFP는 저-어웨이 --> 데니스 브라운 - 2 2 - © - @ - WER 20:41, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
    세계적으로 금지된 두 명의 사용자가 잘못 편집하고 있다는 게시물의 주요 이슈를 언급하시겠습니까? -mattbuck (Talk) 20:47, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
경솔하게 굴려는 것은 아니지만, 지금 당장 우리가 할 수 있는 유일한 조치는 RFP에 있는 것이다.양말을 다루기에 적절한 장소인 SPI와 모든 CU가 있는 곳에 이미 있다.ANI에서 우리가 뭘 할 수 있을지 모르겠어Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 20:49, 2013년 5월 15일(UTC)에 가입[응답]
상식적으로 당신이 기사를 보호하고 그 자리에서 IPS를 차단해야 한다.만약 당신이 그들에게 표적이 될 것을 염려한다면, 그냥 그렇게 말하라. 그러면 다른 누군가가 그것을 할 수 있다.루사비아 (대화)20:51, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
솔직히 말하면 Russavia, RFP와 SPI에서 연주하게 할 것이다.거기서 만족을 얻지 못한다면, 더 이상 할 수 있는 일이 없는지 다시 여기로 데려오는 것이 좋을 것 같다.프리오리먼 (대화)20:55, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
(편집 갈등) 루사비아, 넌 새로 온 사람이 아니니까, 내가 키즈 글러브를 취급하지 않는다면 용서해 줘. 하지만 넌 큰 소년이고 SPI에 이미 접수했다는 걸 알고 있어. 그리고 페이지 보호를 원한다면 RFPP로 가는 거야.네 SPI 보고서를 봤는데, 내가 거기 서기를 봤는데, 그 "삭스" 중 하나는 편집이 0개고 편집이 0개라서, 어떻게 그 점들을 연결할 수 있는지 모르겠어.다른 하나는 어떤 연관성을 증명할 수 없는 한 실제로 연결될 수 없는 두 가지 편집이 있다.그리고 그 페이지에는 보호가 필요한 역사가 없다.한 IP가 편집한 다른 IP는 문제가 되지 않았고, 당신은 한 편집이 어떻게 양말 마스터에 연결되는지 설명했었습니다.한 번의 편집으로 따옴표를 변경하는 것은 결국 연결하기가 매우 어렵다.그래서 내가 말했듯이, 그것은 이미 SPI에 있다, 그것은 RFP로 가야 한다. 왜냐하면 나는 당신이 제공한 증거에 근거하여 누군가를 보호하거나 차단할 이유를 알 수 없기 때문이다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 20:59, 2013년 5월 15일(UTC)에 가입[응답]
나는 결국 하원 편집을 위해 하나를 차단했지만, 다른 하나는 차단하지 않았다. (그리고, 이것은 SPI에 있었다.) 그러나 보호는 RFPP로 가야 한다.개인적으로, 나는 편집된 내용이 하나도 없기 때문에 현 시점에서 필요성을 못 느낀다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 21:05, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
나는 RFPP 포인트에 동의해야 한다.이 시점부터 IP 주소나 다른 명백히 관련된 주소의 모든 것을 되돌리는 것이 좋다.불행히도 역동적인 IP인 것 같아 데니스의 블록이 고착될 것 같지는 않다.프리오리먼 (대화) 21:20, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
여러분은 또한 오프 enup을 차단하는 것은 아무도 이곳에서 정기적으로 하는 일이 아니라는 것을 기억해야 한다.예를 들어, 당신은 Commons에서 차단될 수 있고 여기서 편집할 수 있다.그 장소의 기준을 잘 알고 있는 점원들과 함께 적절한 장소가 필요한 이유다.그것은 그가 수백 개의 기여를 때려부수고 있는 것과 같지 않다.그것은 주의가 필요하지만 위기가 아니다.양말 한 짝만 더 있으면 된다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 21:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
사실이지만, 이 경우 코흐스는 전세계적으로 금지되어 있다.그는 아무데나 편집해서는 안 된다.프리오리먼 (대화) 21:27, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 잠시 동안 그것에 대해 효과적으로 손을 쓸 수 있다.그건 언제나 즐겁다.—톰 모리스 (대화) 12:47, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 공식적으로, RFPP는 이 요청을 거절할 것이다. 왜냐하면 최근 그것을 정당화할 파괴적인 활동이 별로 없기 때문이다.질문된 IP 주소에서 단일 편집이 표시됨.단일 IP 주소에서 단일 편집에 기반한 기사를 보호하지 않는다.그것은 전적으로 불합리하고 위키피디아의 보호정책에 반한다.이것은 분명한 WP처럼 보인다.타점 상황이라면.여기선 정말 달리 할 일이 없는데, OP가 맹인 설치류의 작은 굴에서 에베레스트를 만들려고 하는 것 같아... --Jayron32 01:52, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

대체 계정의 부적절한 사용

나(및 다른)는 사용자와의 애런 스와츠카르멘 오르티즈에 관한 기사 및 대화 페이지에 있는 내용 분쟁에 관여했다.더보르길라오늘 저녁, 몇 주 전, 그녀는 대체 계정을 사용하여 편집자 보조 게시판에 이러한 편집 사항을 게시함으로써 도움을 요청하려 했으나 실패했다는 것을 알게 되었다.나는 대체 계정에 대한 정책을 읽어 보았다.대체 계정을 이렇게 사용하는 것은 정책에서 크게 벗어나는 것 같다.이것을 드보르길라의 관심과 스와츠 토크 페이지에 있는 다른 편집자들의 주목을 끈 후, 여기에 이 편차에 대한 통지를 올리는 것이 내가 생각할 수 있는 유일한 방법이다.어떤 식으로든 누군가가 개입할 수 있을까?데이비드 in DC (대화) 02:48, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

대체 계정을 사용하는 것 자체가 양말 인형뽑기 정책을 위반하는 것은 아니다.정책을 위반할 수 있는 것은 계정을 사용하는 방식이다.당신이 연결한 편집에서, Dervorguilla는 대체 계정(J.K)을 사용할 때 자신을 명시적으로 식별한다.Herms). Dervorguilla가 대체 계정을 사용하여 자신의 의견에 대해 외부 지원을 요청하고 연결을 확인하지 못했더라면, 그것은 분명히 정책에 위반되었을 것이다.
이는 즉각적인 감시를 피하기 위한 다소 의심스러운 시도인 것 같다(WP:정밀 조사, 완전히 공개되지는 않았지만 어느 쪽이든 내가 차단할 수 있는 방법은 없다.나는 다른 편집은 보지 않았지만 위에 링크된 편집은 나에게 끔찍하게 문제가 되지 않는다.나는 데르보르퀴야는 다른 양말 문제가 없는 한 앞으로 그러한 행동을 피해야 한다는 경고를 발견할 것이다. --auburn pilot'ssock 03:19, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
2013년 4월 24일(21:19 UTC) 시솝 오카시사용자에게 WP에서 필요한 교육을 제공했다.정밀 조사. --Dervorguilla (대화) 22:50, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[답글]
  • 댓글을 달다.작은 봇새가 내가 내 감시목록의 두 기사를 다 가져간 후에 여기서 쉬엄쉬엄 들어와야 한다고 암시했다.나는 이전에 아론 스와르츠카르멘 오르티즈가 미국인들에 의해 편집되어서는 안 된다고 언급했고, 스와츠씨를 개인적으로 알고 있거나 위키피디아 사람으로 알고 있는 사람들에 의해 편집되어서는 안 된다고 말했다.나는 그가 죽기 전에 그 어느 쪽도 들어본 적이 없었다.두 가지 물품 모두 전혀 관여하지 않은 사람들이 치우는 데 사용할 수 있다.그는 매우 똑똑하고 주목할 만한 사람이었고 범죄 혐의로 기소되었다.그녀는 기소될 때 감시 중이었다.그들 둘 다 자신의 행동에 대한 이유가 있었다.그들은 옳고 그름을 따랐을지 모르지만 우리의 것은 그것을 결정하는 것이 아니다.우리는 위키백과 표준에 걸맞은 기사를 만드는 것이다.나는 왜 이것이 이 사건에서 작동하지 않는지에 대해 두 가지 기사를 자세히 다룰 수 있지만 나는 그렇지 않다.나는 다른 사람들이 이 기사들을 단지 기사로만 보아야 한다고 생각한다.이상, 결과, 그리고 누가 이 근원에 따라 무엇을/그것에 따라 무엇을/말을 했는지/말했는지의 충돌이 아니다.다른 관련 기사들은 아직 보지도 않았지만 같은 상태일 것으로 추정할 뿐이다.--Canoe1967 (대화) 08:17, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
    "아론 스와츠카르멘 오르티즈는 미국인이나 개인적으로 스와츠를 알고 있거나 위키피디아 사람으로 편집되어서는 안 된다고 이전에 언급한 적이 있다"는 코멘트는 어리석다.어떤 조치를 취해야 할지는 잘 모르겠지만, 그 논평은 그럴듯하게 그대로 두어서는 안 된다.Arthur Rubin (대화) 08:32, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 정확히 어떤 이유로 당신은 미국인들이 특정 기사를 편집해서는 안 된다는 진술을 하는 것을 정당화할 수 있는가?그게 내가 여기서 본 더 황당한 일 중의 하나임에 틀림없어. (그리고 나는 얀크가 아니라 영국인이야...) 루케노94(여기서 루크에게 말해) 08:45, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]
카누1967마크번스타인헥터모펫코멘트를 이끌어낼 수 있었다.
"내 고용주의 하우스 잡지인 테케이카(TEKKA)는 7, 8년 전에 스와르츠의 작품을 출판한 적이 있었다.나는 10대 스와츠에게 책을 쓰게 하는 것에 대한 논의를 완전히 잊어버렸다." --MarkBernstein 07:49, 2013년 5월 3일 (UTC)"TEKKA 웹사이트는 당신에게 단순한 '직원' 이상의 것을 제공한다.나는 당신이 그것에 대한 당신의 말이 당신이 스와츠 기사에 암시하는 처럼 보이는 더 강한 연관성을 암시한다고 생각한다." --08:04, 2013년 5월 3일 (UTC)을 수집하라."스워츠는 특히 위키메디아인들과 종종 겹치는 원 안에서 상당히 다작했다.스와르츠와 일종의 '6도 분리' 관계가 있는 사람을 치지 않고는 죽은 고양이를 이 근처에서 휘두를 수 없다." --HectorMoffet 00:14, 2013년 5월 10일 (UTC)[응답]
--Dervorguilla (대화) 23:29, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[답글]
  • 대체 계정에서 제 3인칭에서 그것의 분신을 언급하기 시작하는 것은 의도적으로 독립성에 대해 오도하는 것이며, 아마도 빈약한 무고한 자들과 같은 분신을 제시하는 것으로 추정되며, 특히 이전에 거세되지 않은 장소에서 편집자 조력을 위해 조사할 때 그렇다.정책 완성 각주가 끝에 태그가 붙은 경우 이것은 변경되지 않는다!
데르보르기야의 아론 스와츠 외에서의 행동은 이미 오래 전부터 전투적이고 파괴적이며 파괴적이었다.앤디 딩리 (대화) 09:17, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
Dervorguilla는 동의하지 않는다.대명사 사용에 관한 발언.더보르길라가 3인칭 단수형을 사용하는 것은 그녀의 User 페이지에서 주권자로서의 공식적인 자격으로 말하는 주권자(왕실이 아닌) "그녀"를 나타내는 것으로 합리화된다.추가 일러스트 아날로그: "그녀의 인자한 여왕폐하께서 랭캐스터를 배달해 주시길..."(그러나 "나는 피자를 배달해 주시기를..."), "만약 당신의 그레이스가 랭캐스터를 사면할 마음이 있다면..."(그러나 "피자를 처분했다면...")그것은 자신의 유일 기업(편집자) 성격과 개인적(인간적) 성격을 구분한다.
때때로 이러한 사용은 지나치게 개인화된 토론에 특정한 그라비타(또는 유머러스한 노트)를 추가할 수 있다. --Dervorguilla (토크) 19:11, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC) 20:53, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[답글]

내가 이걸 제대로 알고 있는지 한번 봅시다.더보르기야는 사용자 페이지에서 자신이 "MIT 범죄 클럽(2005–12 프로젝트 고문)이었다"고 밝히고 있다.2011년, Arron Swartz가 MIT 경찰에 체포되었고, 우리는 Arron Swartz 페이지에서 MIT Crime Club을 우리의 정보원 중 하나로 사용하고 있다.내가 보기에는 이해충돌처럼 들리는데. --Guy Macon (대화) 09:20, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

가이 매콘, 이 논평은 당신이 방금 제기한 이해관계의 충돌에 대한 것이지, 대체 계정 사용의 실질적인 문제들에 대한 것도 아니고, 전쟁 편집이나 편집/반복 등의 혐의에 대한 것도 아니다.
나(불행히도)는 이곳의 상황에 대해 너무 잘 알고 있고, 일반적으로 관련된 모든 사람들에 대해 날카롭게 비판하겠지만, 이 경우에 잠재적인 부정행위는 실제보다 더 이론적이거나 피상적이다.스와츠 페이지에 있는 「MIT 범죄 클럽」에 관한 두 가지 언급은 (1) MIT 경찰이 발행한 경찰 로그 정보의 아카이브(그들은 그것을 "컴파일"이라고 부른다)에 관한 것이며, (2) 일부 Matcusetts Superior Court 파일링의 PDF 복사본에 관한 URL에 기재되어 있다.(1)과 관련하여, MIT 경찰은 그 로그들을 인터넷에 영구적으로 게시하지 않으며, Dervorguilla의 조직은 달리 사용할 수 없을 수도 있는 것들을 보존하기 위한 조치를 취했다.Dervorguilla는 자신의 실체가 만든 정보의 아카이브를 제2의 출처로 참조하지 않는 것이 더 낫지만, 대안은 상당히 동등한 것으로, 각주에 직접 정보를 포함하고 인터넷에 접속할 수 있는 자원이 없기 때문에 하이퍼링크가 되지 않는 원래의 출처에 인용문을 제공하는 것이다.그것을 위해그 변화(또는 다른 것)가 일어나야 하는지의 여부와 상관없이, 여기서의 연결은 이 인용문/각주/출처에 기초하여 이해충돌 수준으로 올라가지 않는다.(2)에서도 마찬가지로 미사.법원은 이 정보를 전자적으로 이용할 수 없도록 하기 때문에 데르보르길라의 조직은 직접 그곳에 가서 유료로 복제하고 스캔한 뒤 인터넷에서 PDF로 이용할 수 있게 했다.두 경우 모두 그는 출처가 아닌 도관(평판상의 문제가 있는 사람)의 역할을 하고 있다.여기서 데르보르길라가 이해충돌을 했다고 주장한다면, 유일한 근거는 그가 MIT와 하버드의 범죄에 대해 염려하는 습성이 입증된 개인이며, 스와르츠 기사와 사건은 MIT의 범죄혐의에 관한 것이라고 말할 수 있을 것이다.그러면 칩이 떨어져도 돼. 그럴지도 몰라.조킨슨 (대화) 11시 12분, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
MIT 네트워크 보안(http://www.mit.edu/~jhawk/home.kinson )에 관련된 누군가가 Aaron Swartz 페이지와 관련된 COI도 가지고 있는데, 나는 당신이 편집했다고 본다.스와츠는 전자 데이터의 도용과 MIT 컴퓨터 네트워크에 대한 무단 접근으로 기소되었다.(내가 잘못 알고 COI가 없는 것 같다.아래를 참조하십시오.)
Guy Macon (12:12, 2013년 5월 16일) - (아래 삽입 후 계속)
이 문제를 진지하게 논의하려면 다른 섹션을 사용하십시오. 그러나 나는 네트워크 보안에 관심이 있지만 MIT에 고용되어 있지 않으며 MIT의 네트워크나 보안에 대해 책임지지 않는다.호킨슨 (대화) 02:37, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[답글]
MIT Crime Club 프로젝트 고문이 되는 것은 "MIT에서 범죄에 대해 염려하는 입증된 습관"보다 훨씬 더 많은 관여를 하는 것이다. http://mitcrimeclub.org/public/details976/index.html은 우리가 교직원 고문에 대해 이야기하고 있다고 믿게 한다.
Guy Macon - (아래 삽입 후 계속)
안녕 가이 마콘!당신이 MIT Crime Club 사이트에서 찾은 문서는 이전 하버드 대학 범죄 클럽의 보관된 홈페이지 입니다. CSI: Harvard.
당신이 언급했듯이, 나의 특별한 관심사는 "MIT Crime Club (프로젝트 어드바이저 2005–12)"이다.그리고 그렇다, 필요한 관여는 때때로 다소 무거웠다.
나의 재정지분에 대한 진술은 APA 공시 양식을 본떠서 만든 것이다.일부 측면은 WP보다 (마지막으로) 덜 허용적이다:COI 가이드라인."Dervorguilla는 그녀나 직계 가족 중 어느 누구도 자신의 편집이나 경쟁 관계에서 논의된 … 어떤 … 기업에도 유의미한 재정적 이익을 가지고 있지 않다고 선언한다."특히, 나는 클럽에 대한 저작권, 파트너쉽, 기타 재정적인 이해관계를 가지고 있지 않다.
학생과 직원을 나열한 MIT 피플 디렉토리를 확인하면 내가 MIT 교직원이 아님을 확인할 수 있고(또!) --Dervorguilla (대화) 22:24, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[답글]
MIT Crime Club은 단순히 경찰 로그 정보를 출판하는 것 이상의 일을 한다. 그들은 사설 탐정을 고용하고 살인을 조사한다.게다가, 그들은 웹사이트(http://mitcrimeclub.org/Westlaw_Document_11_41_01.pdf)에 "오르티즈의 성과와 그 일에 대한 적합성에 대해 점점 더 많은 비평가들의 리스트에 의해 의심받고 있다" "스와츠 자살과 DOJ의 병든 문화: 몇몇 변호사들은 모클리 법원을 언급할 때 농담을 하고 있다.'고통의 집'이라는 별칭으로 집을 짓는다.전 그렇지 않아요.컴퓨터 신동 애런 스와르츠의 자살로 이어지는 비우호적 기소는 보스턴에 있는 미국 검찰청으로부터 장기간에 걸친 폭언 기소가 가장 최근의 것으로, 처참한 문화의 변화를 대변하고 있다."MIT에 본사를 둔 조직으로 웹 사이트에 그런 종류의 자료를 올리는 사람은 누구나 애런 스와츠와 카르멘 오르티즈 페이지를 편집할 때 COI가 명확하다. --Guy Macon (토크) 12:12, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
가이, 편집자로써 "미국인은 없다"와 "애런을 개인적으로 아는 사람은 없다"에 대해 이미 너무 많은 포괄적인 견해가 이 기사에서 제외되었다.토크 자료들을 보십시오.개인적으로 아론을 알고 있는 몇 사람이 아니었다면 2005년, 2007년, 그리고 올해 초 이미 기사가 삭제되었을 것이다!MIT는 큰 곳이지, 그곳의 모든 사람들이 이 주제에 대해 어떤 종류의 COI도 가지고 있는 것은 아니다.
이 기사에 실제로 얼마나 많은 COI가 존재하는지, 그리고 편집하는 사람들이 다른 사람들에게 완전히 적대적인지(이곳에는 분명한 두 명의 이름이 있는데, 그 중 한 명은 이제 aon IP로 전환되었고, 다른 한 명은 다른 곳을 조사하기 전에 양말을 갈아 신는다)가 영향을 받는다.WP(증가하는 추세, 그리고 어떤 이유로든 셈웹 기사를 중심으로 매우 보편적인)가 개입되지 않은 위키리거들이 COI를 "그 주제에 대해 아는 사람은 누구나 용서할 수 없을 정도로 편향되어 있다"로 바꾸어 그 근거로 그것들을 배제하려 하는 것은 너무나 쉬운 일이다.COI는 나쁘지만, 그냥 진짜 문제가 있는 진짜 COI에만 집중하자, 미쳐버리지 말고 주제발표를 무작위로 금지하자.앤디 딩리 (대화) 13:47, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
"데르보르기야의 조직은 직접 그곳에 가서 유료로 복제하고 스캔한 뒤 인터넷에서 PDF로 이용할 수 있게 만들었다."
아론 스와츠 사건에 연루된 조직에 대해 좀 아이러니한 행동으로 보는 사람이 또 있을까?앤디 딩리 (대화) 13:47, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 앤디 딩글리의 말에 어느 정도 동의한다. 특히 다른 계정에 글을 올릴 때 자신을 제3자로 언급하는 것은 불필요하게 혼란스러운 경우가 많다.그들이 마지막에 그 연결에 주목했지만, 다른 계정을 '나의 대체 계정' 또는 처음부터 비슷한 것으로 언급하는 것이 덜 혼란스러운 일일 것이다.게다가, 그들의 편집에 대한 정밀 조사가 정당한지 여부에 대한 언급 없이, 그들이 그 계정을 사용하는 이유는 정밀 조사를 피하기 위한 우리의 정책을 위반하는 것과 거의 유사하다.닐 아인(대화) 13:10, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 메인 스페이스의 편집 창에 숨겨진 메시지와 함께 편집-워링하는 이런 종류의 허튼 소리는 전혀 용납될 수 없다는 것을 나는 오리지널 포스터에 경고하고 싶다.부메랑을 조심해라.대화 페이지에서 콘텐츠 분쟁을 정중하게 해결하십시오.카라이트 (대화) 16:40, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:Smohammed2

사용자:Smohammed2는 때로는 이상하고, 때로는 서버를 편집하며, 일반적으로 전쟁을 편집하는 거의 완전한 의사소통이 불가능한 편집자인 것 같다.

IP 92.96.193.28 diff, diff, diff, diff, diff통해 Firearm에서 되돌림(아마도 IP 2.49.245.105 diff를 통해 또 다른 되돌림).또한 이전 수정사항도 많음.

동일한 IP 92.96.193.28 / (아마도 Smohammed2) 매거진(화기)3RR diff, diff, diff

은 블랭킹하고 총은 코멘트 구분 없이 화기로 리디렉션

블랭크스 스푸드 건, 코멘트 디프, 디프 없이 포테이토 대포로 리디렉션

이러한 diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff와 이 편집자 normaly가 산문 사본을 작성하지 않고(기술적 편집만 하는 것 같으며), 편집 요약을 남기지 않으며 토론 diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff, diff에 참여하지 않는다는 사실은 이것이 번역 소프트웨어를 사용하는 비영어 편집자일 수도 있는 것처럼 보인다.Bryn Mawr의 분수 (토크) 13:31, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]

당면한 관심사는 총과 화기 문제인데, 같은 주제는 아니지만, 다른 하나는 대포의 사용을 포함하며, 그러한 것들은 '화기'라고 표기되지 않는다.포테이토 캐논의 역사는 스푸드 건으로 바뀌었다.편집자는 페이지를 복사한 다음 다시 블랭킹하여 리디렉션했다.ChrisGualtieri (대화) 14:20, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
이 사용자는 오랜 기간 동안 파괴적인 편집의 역사를 가지고 있다.§ 프리레인지Frogcroak 16:47, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

델라웨어 항공 주방위군

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 기사는 미국 국방부에 할당된 정부 IP 주소 199.208.239.141 (대화 · 기여 · WHOIS)에서 훼손되고 있다.Apteva (대화) 17:43, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 더 이상은 아니다.드레이미스 (토크) 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC) 18:05 [응답]
    • 고마워. 경고가 높아져서 그들을 막았을 수도 있지만, 누군가의 지휘관이 그들과 얘기하고 싶어할 수도 있어.공공 기물 파손의 대부분은 영국인조차 아니었다.Apteva (대화) 19:25, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 아, 영어야, sdrawkcab ti daer ot evah tuj uoY.아주 영리해, 아마 부모님의 큐브에서 기다리는 지루한 아이일 거야Rgrds. --64.85.215.86 (토크) 20:46, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[답글]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:RfCs를 통한 대화 페이지에 대한 합의에도 불구하고 POV용 익명 209.6 태그 페이지

2012년 미국 선거에서의 강간임신 논란 기사에서는 WP:N에 대한 일반적인 공감대를 여기서 찾을 수 있으며, 다른 의견란에 대한 공감대를 여기서 찾을 수 있다.사용자에게 다음 사항을 물어보려고 해도:Anonymous209.6토크 페이지에서 문제를 논의하기 위해 계속해서 WP 기사의 일부를 태그한다.POV. II는 대화 페이지의 토론을 촉진하고 기사에 대한 POV 태그를 중지하는 데 도움을 요청할 것이다.어떤 도움이라도 고맙다.캐스프링스 (대화) 23:41, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

대답하라; 어느 쪽에도 의견 일치가 없다.RfC는 바틀렛이 그의 사진의 저작권에 대해 언급했을 뿐이다.킹에 대한 논의는 합의가 이루어졌다면 제거하기 위한 것이다.킹 토의 끝에 있는 캐스프링스(Aa 상당히 전형적인 가식적인 행동 문제에서)는 킹에 대한 RfC를 시작한다고 주장했지만, 대신 Bouchey에 대한 RfC를 시작했다고 주장하지 않았고, 그 결론은 앞에서 언급한 섹션의 BLP에 대한 우려를 삭제하는 결과를 낳았다.캐스프링스의 과도한 행동 제출 습관은 가식적인 것으로 간주될 수 있으며, 실제 합의의 새로운 편집자들의 평가를 어렵게 만든다.캐스프링스는 또한 존재하지 않는 곳에서 합의를 주장함으로써 논의되지 않기를 바라는 이슈에 대한 논의를 중단했다. 주요 논의는 토크를 통해 이루어져야 한다.조항 논의는 난장판이다.--익명 209.6 (대화) 02:05, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC) 02:02, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자:68.50.128.91 및 대화:로버트 B.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

68.50.128.91 (토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)을 볼 수 있는가?

그들의 현재 차단되지 않은 요청은 "이것을 관리자 먹이사슬 위로 좀 더 올려 보내달라"고 요청하는 것이다. 그래서 나는 선의의 표시로, 나의 행동에 대한 검토와 사용자로 하여금 반복적인 혼란을 멈추게 하는 방법에 대한 의견을 요청하고 있다.여러 편집자들이 그들을 도우려고 시도했지만, 그들은 형편없거나 비지원적인 내용을 기사에 삽입하는 그들의 목표에 부합하지 않는 것은 무엇이든 무시한다. 그래서 나는 현 시점에서 만약 어떤 것이라도 그들을 이해하는데 도움이 되도록 무엇을 할 수 있을지 확신할 수 없다.

한마디로 '못 들었다'는 심각한 사례가 사용자다.그들은 4월에 받은 몇 가지 조언에 따라 기사 토크 페이지와 사용자 토크 페이지에서 변경에 대한 합의가 있을 때까지 그것을 복원하지 말라는 여러 편집자의 말을 들었음에도 불구하고, 그들은 계속해서 같은 편집 요청을 다시 열었다.

그들은 이전에 토크쇼에서 두 번이나 차단을 당한 적이 있다.로버트 B.(기사 기록 링크 감시 로그 편집).그들이 이번 주에 돌아와 이전 두 블록을 초래했던 똑같은 행동을 재개했을 때 나는 단 한 번의 경고를 했고, 그들이 계속하면 다시 그들을 막았다.

ANI에 대한 사전 논의는 다음 사이트에서 확인할 수 있다.

---- 베어크 (대화기여) - 23:48, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

현재 완전하게 보호되고 있는 BLP에서 제거 컨텐츠를 제거하십시오.

이 편집아미람 골드블럼의 BLP에 매우 문제가 많은 내용을 추가했다.골드블럼을 "PLO 지지자"라고 부르는 사람들의 집단과 관련하여 그것은 모욕적인 것으로 간주되어야 한다.골드블럼이 사실상 PLO 지지자라는 증거가 없는 한, 우리는 그가 PLO 지지자라는 비난을 반복해서는 안 된다; 이스라엘 맥락에서, 그 비난(특히 거짓이라면)은 누군가의 평판에 상당히 해로울 것이므로 명예를 훼손하는 것으로 간주되어야 한다. (나는 골드블럼이 아니므로 이에 유의하기 바란다)하고 싶어도 법적 조치를 취할 처지가 아니다.)특히 출처가 이용되고 있는 방식(오류)과 관련하여, 편집자가 토크 페이지에 분명히 공감대가 결여되어 있다는 사실 또한 있다.WP별:선호, WP:BLPREMOVE, BLP는 일반적으로 적절히 추가(가능하지 않은 전망)하는 합의가 있을 때까지 자료가 나와야 한다.명목(대화) 20:48, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 와, 그거 불쾌한 대화 페이지구나.나는 개인적으로 그 편집에 BLP 문제가 있다고 생각하지 않지만, 그것은 쉽게 심각한 WP가 될 수 있다.과도한 문제.즉, 신뢰할 수 있게 소싱된 고발을 보고하는 것은 일반적으로 BLP 문제가 아니라 사소한 사건에 지나치게 중점을 두는 것일 수 있다.나는 BLP로 더 많은 일을 하는 사람들에게 의견을 말할 것이다.나는 꽤 고약한 싸움이 벌어지고 있는 것을 보고 그것이 진정되고 권위적인 영향력을 발휘하는 것이 좋은 생각이라고 믿는다.호빗 (토크) 21:28, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 모욕적인 것이 아니다.우리는 그를 PLO 지지자라고 부르는 것이 아니다. 일부 시위자들은 PLO를 지지했고, 그 비평가들은 그들의 행동에 대해 세계의 반대편에 있는 신문으로부터 취재를 받았다.그러나 http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=884181&ct=11757857에 따르면 원작에 문제가 있을 수 있으며, 이 이야기를 검증하기 위한 추가 출처를 찾아야 한다.그러나 그것은 WP가 아니다.BLP 발행.가이진42 (대화) 21:29, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 폭도들이 그를 PLO 지지자라고 부르는 것이 명예훼손이었다면, 우리가 그들의 비난에 여지를 주는 것은 명예훼손이다.그리고, 소스에 문제가 있다면, WP:BLPREMOVE는 관련이 있다.그리고, 다시 말하지만, 편집자는 의견 일치가 없다.명목(대화) 21:31, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 분명히 WP에 속한다. 알려진.그를 PLO 지지자라고 부르는 것은 명예훼손일 것이다.다른 사람들이 그렇게 말했다고 하는 것은, 만약 믿을 수 있게 출처가 정해지지 않았다면, 특히 그가 공개적으로 그리고 특히 주목할 만한 비난에 대해 답변한 곳에서는 더욱 그렇다.그러나, 내가 말했듯이, 그 사건이 전혀 일어났다는 것에 약간의 의심이 있을 수 있다. (따라서 시간제 기사는 사실이 아닌 소문을 반복하고 있다) - 우리는 그 진상을 규명하고 그것이 포함되어야 하는지에 대한 합의를 도출해야 하지만, 이것은 WP가 아니다.다른 사람의 의견을 보고하기 위한 BLP 위반.가이진42 (대화) 21:37, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

관리자 답변을 부탁드려도 될까?그들의 견해에 대해 호빗과 가이진에게 감사하며, 특히 LA 타임즈가 보도한 것이 일어나지 않았을 수도 있다는 점을 제기해 준 가이진에게(그래서 출처와 사용 방법이 문제가 되고 WP:따라서 BLPREMOVE는 여기에서 관련이 있다).ANI에서 누구나 토론할 수 있는 점은 감사하지만, 결국 여기에 게시하는 요점은 관리 조치를 요청하는 것이다.고마워요.명목성 (대화) 21:49, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

LA 타임즈 기사 자체는 이스라엘 프로젝트 웹사이트에서 정보를 발신한 것으로 보이지 않고 있으며, 바이 라인은 이 작품이 타임즈 기자에 의해 제출되었다고 언급하고 있다.그러나, 이것이 살아있는 사람의 전기이고, 언급된 사건이 실제로 발생했는지에 대해 상당한 의심이 있는 점을 감안할 때, 는 WP에 따라 다른 관리자에 의해 구체적인 논란이 되고 있는 내용을 삭제하도록 권고하고 싶다.블프리모브.백과사전으로서 살아 있는 사람에게 부당한 해를 끼치지 않도록 합리적인 자제를 보여줘야 한다.그 내용은 분쟁 해결 과정의 결과에 따라 나중에 복원될 수도 있다.거의 머리가 없는 {c} 23:01, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 BLP에 있는 이 정보의 진실성에 대해 약간의 의심이 있는 것을 감안할 때, 그 자료는 복구하기 위한 확인과 합의가 있을 때까지 제거되어야 한다는 것에 동의한다.사용자:에게 메모를 보낼 예정:아마툴릭은 보호 행정관이었습니다.만약 그들이 활동적이라면, 아마도 그들은 내용을 삭제하는 것이 더 나을 것이다.만약 그들이 곧 활동하지 않고, 어떠한 관리자 이의도 없다면, 나는 그것을 직접 할 것이다.Slp1 (대화) 00:57, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
아마툴릭은 현재 편집이 안 되고 여기서 논의된 내용에 따라 편집이 안 되고 있기 때문에, 나는 현재 부분을 삭제했다.Slp1 (대화) 02:14, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워명목(대화) 04:29, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 98.236.201.201.66 Workahomics에서 운영 중단 편집

모두 안녕하십니까, 워커홀릭스를 위한 페이지는 많은 선의를 얻지만, 궁극적으로 비건설적인 편집은 대부분 무해하고 사람들이 빈둥거리는 일회성 사례들이다.한 명의 IP 사용자는 주인공의 간단한 바이오스에 관련 없는 헛소리 한 조각을 추가하는 데 매우 까다롭다.그것은 관련이 없을 뿐만 아니라, 공허할 뿐만 아니라 그가 그것을 터무니없는 것에 붙이는 문장을 자주 만든다.혹은 그 혹은 그녀는 그것을 그것의 조각으로 첨가한다.

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=555415148
  2. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=555142495
  3. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=554737924
  4. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=553574094
  5. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=551892198
  6. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=551386231

이 특별한 "때때로 그는 분별이 있을 수 있다" (정말, 그게 무슨 뜻이지?)다음과 같은 다른 "일반적인" 가치의 편집과 쌍을 이루는 데 사용됨

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=550729867
  2. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workaholics&diff=prev&oldid=550890242

그의 유일한 원인이 되기 전에사용자가 요약 편집에 참여하지 않는 것이 분명했기 때문에 내가 처음에 왜 계속적으로 도움이 되지 않는 편집 작업을 취소하고 있는지를 어떻게 설명하는지 보지 못했을 수 있다(여기여기).사용자에게 경고하기 시작하는데 시간이 걸렸다 - 사실, 나는 사용자에게 처음으로 경고를 시작하고 싶을 때 환영하는 시간을 가졌다. 단지 그들이 그들의 대화 페이지를 알아차릴 것인지 아니면 위키피디아와 인간 요소의 상호작용을 볼 수 있는지 알아보기 위해 어색한 분위기를 깨뜨리기 위해서였다.또한, 나는 같은 사용자가 다른 TV 프로그램들의 페이지에 유사한 무가치한 기여를 했다는 것을 알아차렸다. 때로는 차트를 부수거나 방해하기 위해 그들의 길을 가기도 했다.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Impractical_Jokers_episodes&diff=555142128&oldid=554349222

방금 경고했잖아, 이건 반달리즘이 아니라 확실히 편집에 지장을 주는 거야, 안 그래?사용자들은 3개의 TV쇼에서만 편집이 되는데, 그 중 대다수는 워커홀릭스를 위한 것이고, 대다수는 단지 이 에라타를 한 달 남짓 만에 다시 넣기 위한 것이다. 그리고 나의 환영과 4개의 경고는 지난 12일 동안 있었다.건배, 제시라페 (대화) 04:52, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

IP도 사람이기 때문에 IP에 통보했다.편집 패턴은 편집자들이 눈치채지 못하게 삐뚤어지고 종종 당황스러운 문구를 인쇄하기 위한 공모전을 생각나게 한다.위험 05:10, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

화이트크리스티안2013과 투르크 나치당

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

해결됨
– 사용자 이름 정책 위반으로 사용자가 무기한 차단됨

화이트크리스티안2013 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

신나치주의 (토크 내역 링크 감시 로그 편집)

백인 민족주의 단체 목록 (토크 내역 링크 감시 로그 편집)

이 사용자는 네오나치주의백인 민족주의 단체 리스트에 투르크 나치당이라고 불리는 것에 대해 반복적으로 문단을 추가하고 있다.그것은 기관 자체의 웹사이트와 그것을 언급하지 않은 일부 위키피디아 기사 이외의 어떤 것에도 제공되지 않는다.백인 민족주의 단체 목록은 잘 알려진 것, 즉 파란색으로 연결된 단체만을 의미한다.나는 그들을 신나즈주의, 백인 민족주의 단체 목록(목록의 범위가 재연결되어 있기 때문에 특별히 그 집단을 배제하는 곳)에 두 번, 그들의 토크 페이지에 메모를 남기고, 두 기사의 토크 페이지에 그 내용을 토론하기 위해 섹션을 시작했는데, 이용자는 관여하지 않을 것이다.어떻게 해야 할지 모르겠어요.또한 어떤 이유로 편집된 내용을 모두 사소한 것으로 표시하고 편집 요약을 사용하지 않는다.디프는 이 사용자의 유일한 기여사항이기 때문에 제공하는 것이 아니므로 위의 사용자 링크에서 모두 볼 수 있다.alf laylah laylah (대화) 22:27, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

는 WP에 따라 그들의 최근 추가사항을 수정했다.LIST. 이 시점 이후 무엇이 적절하다고 생각될지 모르겠다.만약 그들이 다시 돌아온다면 우리는 그들에게 3RR 경고를 줄 수 있다. 아마도 그것은 그들의 관심을 끌 것이다.커피퍼서 (대화) 22:47, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 어쩌면 그게 먹힐지도 몰라.그리고 어쩌면 죽음의 오렌지 바는 이 모든 것을 그 궤도에서 멈추었을지도 모른다!— 알프 라일라 라일라 (토크) 22:49, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

뭐가 문제야?네 인생과 더 좋은 일이 없니?위키피디아에 네오 나치 백인 민족주의 단체를 추가할 시간이 좀 있었는데 계속 삭제하는 거야?잘했어! — Whitechristian2013(대화 기여) 22:53, 2013년 5월 14일(UTC)의해 추가된 서명되지 않은 이전 논평[응답]

이와 같은 기사들을 사소한 편집으로 표시하면서 실질적으로 추가하는 것은 일반적으로 선의의 행동의 징후가 아니라고 덧붙이고 싶다: [44] -- The Anome (대화) 23:01, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답] 참조.
(충돌 편집)응, 노력해줘서 고맙고, 그래도 추가는 할 수 있어.우리가 "공지"라고 부르는 것을 포함할 가치가 있다는 것을 보여줄 필요가 있을 뿐이다(WP:주목할 만한).이것을 하기 위해서는 책이나 신문에서 그것에 대한 논의를 찾아야 한다.나는 아무것도 찾을 수 없지만 언어 문제일 수도 있어.만약 당신이 자료를 찾을 수 있다면, 나는 당신에게 어떤 종류의 지원이 필요한지, 그리고 그것을 사용하는 방법을 보여줄 수 있다면 기쁘겠지만, 그와 같은 출처가 없으면, 그러한 종류의 정보를 추가하는 것은 정말 불가능하다.alf laylah laylah (대화) 23:07, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
(분쟁 편집)X2 Whitechristian2013은 지금까지 편집이 30개밖에 되지 않았으니, 우리가 이 작업을 할 수 있는지 알아보자.좋아, 그럼 화내지 말고 다시 시작하는 게 어때?우리가 당신의 추가사항을 계속 되돌리는 이유는 당신이 그것을 위키백과 기사 목록에 추가하고 있기 때문인데, 파티를 위한 위키백과 기사는 없다.당신이 받은 환영 템플릿의 링크를 읽으면 당신은 위키피디아에 기사가 접수되기 위해 무엇이 필요한지 알게 될 것이다.당신은 그 기사를 쓰는 것을 환영하지만, 우리는 당사자들의 홈 페이지가 아닌 제3자의 소스를 사용해야 한다는 것을 이해해주길 바란다.나는 네가 완전한 기사를 쓰는 것을 도울 수 있어서 기쁘지만 우리는 먼저 이야기를 시작해야 해.건배!커피퍼서 (대화) 23:09, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

아, 이제 내 사용자 페이지를 엉망으로 만들고 있어.alf laylah laylah (대화) 23:12, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]

나는 그들이 그 삭제를 개인적으로 받아들였고 지금 그들은 격분하여 위키피디아를 어떻게 작동시킬지 알아내려고 애쓰고 있다고 생각한다.커피퍼서 (대화) 23:40, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 이건 멋진 일련의 차이점들이야. [45], [46], [47]alf laylah laylah (대화) 23:45, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 그 상황을 조금 완화시키려 하고 있다.그들은 이미 세 번째 복귀를 했지만, 나는 새로운 사용자로서 그것이 역효과를 낼 수 있다고 생각했기 때문에 아직 그들에게 3RR 템플릿을 주지 않았다.나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 것들을 설명하고 있고, 만약 내가 그들에게 말을 시작하게 한다면 나는 우리가 극단적인 조치 없이 이것을 할 수 있을 것이라고 생각한다.커피퍼서 (대화) 23:51, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 얘기 좀 하게 해놨으니까 좀 더 과감한 일을 할 때까지 기다릴 수 있을 것 같아.나는 그들이 기사를 만들고 그것을 위키피디아의 요구 사항을 이해할 수 있는 기회로 사용하기를 원하는지, 우리는 심지어 그 과정에서 새로운 기사가 나올지도 모른다.커피퍼서 (대화) 00:00, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
수고하셨습니다.나는 상황을 악화시키지 않기 위해 아마 지금부터 그것에 관여하지 않을 것이다.alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:04, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
르 한숨...Evanh2008(talk contribs) 11:26, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 실을 알아차리기 전에 다음의 세가지 차이를 되돌렸다.그러한 차이점은 다음과 같다: [48], [49], [50].이러한 편집은 다른 편집자들이 그의 토크 페이지에서 이 사용자와 대화하려고 시도한 후에 이루어졌다.이 편집자는 WP인 것 같다.NOTLISTING. 특이점42 (대화) 11:38, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
단지 그가 신나치주의에 추가했던 것을 다시 되돌렸을 뿐이다.그는 3RR을 훨씬 넘었다 — Richard BB 12:44, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]

또한, 로타 폰 리치토펜과 함께, 나는 이 편집자의 사용자 이름에 대해 매우 걱정하고 있다.리차드 BB 12:45, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 지금 계속되는 편집 전쟁으로 인해 화이트크리스티안2013을 48시간 동안 차단했다.De728631 (대화) 13:07, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각엔 모두가 이 남자에게 충분한 휴식을 준 것 같아, 그는 두 가지 선택을 했고 형편없이 선택했어.사용자 이름이 특히 이 사용자의 네오나치 그룹에 초점을 맞춘 것에 대해 염려하고 있다는 것에 동의하지만, 어떻게 그것이 실제 위반인지에 대해서는 불분명하다.아마도 그의 블록이 만료되면, 그는 더 말하고 싶어질 것이다.건배!커피퍼서 (대화) 13:33, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 이제 그는 블록 고지를 삭제했다.나는 이것을 금지하는 어떤 정책도 있다고 생각하지 않지만, 약간 호전적인 것 같다.그래도 블록이 끝난 후에 어떻게 행동하는지 볼 수 있을 거야리처드 BB 13:38, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 또한 편집 전쟁에 대해 경고한 나를 "반(反)세미틱스"라고 불렀다!어쨌든, 그는 이제 사용자 이름 위반으로 다니엘 케이스에 의해 무기한 차단되었다.롤랑R (토크) 14:09, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 나는 이번 일을 결심한 것으로 표시했다.다니엘 케이스 (토크) 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 14:13[응답]
여전히 금지된 활성 블록 통지를 제거 중이라는 점에 유의하십시오. - 부시 레인저 14:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
논평 이후에 그의 토크 페이지 특권을 취소하는 을 제안하라.리처드 BB 15:31, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그가 아직 일을 하고 있는 것을 감안하면, 그것은 좋은 생각일 것이다.그는 더 이상 이곳 어디에서도 편집하지 않아도 된다.~~로타 리치토펜 (대화) 16:20, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
우리가 아포스트로피 학대에 대한 변명을 할 수 있을까?커피퍼서 (대화) 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 16:39, 응답
이 사용자는 계속해서 자신의 토크 페이지에 인신공격과 욕설을 게시한다.차단 해제를 요청하는 데 이 기능을 사용하지 않는 것으로 보이므로, 토크 페이지 액세스 권한을 제거할 수 있는가?롤랑R (토크) 17:09, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

The Anome에서 삭제한 토크 페이지 액세스. --regents park (토론) 18:27, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

네. -- The Anome (talk) 18:40, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]

줄거리가 복잡해지다.

토크 페이지 접속이 취소된 직후, User:14 Reasons라는 새로운 계정은 WC2013의 토크 페이지에 편지 섞임(거의 코드처럼 보이지만, 나는 그것을 깨는 데 시간을 낭비하지 않을 것이다)을 표시하여 삭제한다. 즉, 신나치 사용자 Axmann8의 토크 페이지를 외설화시키기 위해 유사한 '메시지'를 추가 및 삭제한 직후에.

극우파의 기괴한 공생에 익숙하지 않은 여러분들에게 사용자 이름은 거의 확실히 미국 백인 우월주의자 데이비드 레인의 악명 높은 "4대 단어"에 대한 언급이다.사용자 이름만으로도 차단되는데, 혹시 삭푸페트리(sockpuppetry)가 진행 중인 건 아닌지 궁금하다.~~로타 리치토펜 (대화) 00:49, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

Axmann8의 페이지에 게시된 '점블'은 간단한 대체 암호로, 일부 전사 오류가 있다는 것을 제외한다.원래의 평문은 분명히 "크리스마스는 오래된 영어다. 그리스도의 덩어리가 수축된 거야 그리스어로 x는 그리스도를 의미한다. 그것이 바로 x-mas라는 말의 유래다. 크리스마스라는 단어가 '그리스도를'에서 빼내려는 사람들에 의해 만들어졌다는 것은 오해일 뿐이다.그냥 걸어가는 중...Andy TheGrump (대화) 04:17, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 내 호기심이 점점 나아져서 결국 내 스스로 그걸 깨뜨리고 말았어.WC2013의 강연은 "야구 벅스가 이 난장판의 일차적 선동자"와 같은 내용을 읽는 것으로 보인다.만약 벅스를 막거나 우리 일에 참견하지 못하게 할 수 있다면, 상황은 훨씬 더 쉬워질 것이다." 계정들 사이에 어떤 연관성을 시사하는 것 같지만, 14R이 OrangeMike에 의해 해고되었다는 것을 고려하면, 그것은 아마도 그리 중요하지 않을 것이다.~~로타 리치토펜 (대화) 16:03, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

설명 좀 해 주시죠?

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

우리 중 몇몇이 설득하려고 했던 한 사용자가 나와 문제가 있다.그는 나를 '굴뚝이'라고 부르며 규칙을 어겼지만 감정이 상하자 자신이 관여했던 행동 때문에 나를 신고했다.나는 내가 이 사이트에 기여했지만(대니 토마스를 한 명 참조), "아웃"과 "소크/미트 인형"에 대해서는 전혀 몰랐다고 처음으로 말할 것이다.오래 살면 별일을 다 겪는다.

어쨌든, 이것은 로스엔젤레스 역사학자 래리 하니쉬가 그의 블로그에 어떻게 위키백과 편집자들이 거의 또는 한 개의 인용문으로 허위 또는 오해의 소지가 있는 정보를 게시하는지에 대한 예로 사용했던 테드 힐리 페이지와 관련이 있다.토론을 시작한 것은 내가 아니었지만 보아하니 그가 문제 삼은 것은 나였다.관리자 제안(아래 참조)에서 나는 왜 포스터가 현실에서 누군가에게 질문할 수 있는지, 그러나 나는 왜 포스터가 나에게 이름을 부를 수 있는지, 나는 대답할 수 없는지에 대한 검토와 교육을 겸허히 요청한다.보시다시피, 그는 그의 답변으로 나의 코멘트를 몇 개 삭제했다.그는 심지어 내가 실제로 다른 글을 쓰는 과정에서 작가가 자작 작가였다고 올린 뒤 자신이 인용하고 있는 책의 저자가 살아 있는지조차 모른다고 진술했다.분명히, 그의 머리에 지식을 주입시키려 할 때, 나는 "억압적"으로 간주된다.내가 그의 신원을 물어본 첫 번째 사람은 아니었지만(그는 뉴스 편집에 있어서 방대한 경험을 주장하지만 링크된 기사가 있는 기사를 찾을 수 없다) 그럼에도 불구하고 나는 책임을 져야 할 사람이다.

미리, 당신이 나에게 줄 수 있는 피드백에 감사하며, 내가 여기 오는데 도움을 준 관리인을 어떻게 식별해야 할지 제대로 알지 못한다면 용서한다.자바두 (대화) 04:43, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

확장된 컨텐츠 및 복사/붙여넣기
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.

외출 시도

여보세요. 현재 위키백과에서 토론이 있다.사용자가 관여했을 수 있는 문제에 대한 관리자 게시판/사건감사합니다.

데니스, 할 일이 많다는 건 알지만 어떻게 해야 할지 말해줘내 토크 페이지를 한 번 보면, 자바두라는 사용자가 테드 힐리 기사에서 인용한 RS의 타당성에 대해 내가 다른 편집자와 토론하는 것을 볼 수 있을 것이다.힐리 기사를 통해 WP를 비판하던 블로거의 댓글에 대해 내가 의문을 제기할 정도의 담담한 성격이었기 때문에 그는 몸매가 모두 허탈해졌다.공식적으로, 그 블로거와 나는 그 이후로 오프위키(http://ladailymirror.com/2013/05/11/wikipedia-revert-war-wallace-beery-vs-ted-healy-round-8/)에서 즐거운 대화를 나누었다.

the public part is here]), and we have not only amicably resolved our differences, but reached a consensus on the Healy article.

그래서 문제는 해결되었지만, 자바두는 계속 입을 다물고 욕설을 퍼부었고, 오늘은 자신과 더욱 밉살스러운 친구를 '롤'이라고 불렀다고 막혔다고 위협한 다음, 토론 중인 책의 저자인 E.J. 플레밍이라고 비난하였다.(마지막 두 게시물은 완전히 부적절했기 때문에 비워 버렸다.)외출 미수는 막을 수 있는 공격이지, 그렇지?개인 정보가 틀렸을 때도?괴롭힘은 그냥 무시했어야 했다고 말하겠지만, 사람들이 터무니없는 일로 당신을 비난하기 시작하고, 당신의 신분을 밝히라고 반복적으로 요구하면, 당신은 스스로를 방어해야 할 의무감을 느끼게 된다.가끔 오줌이 마려워도 난 좆이 아니야귀찮게 해서 미안해.닥터조이 talk to me!/ 22:59, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 그들에게 리버스델을 했고 메시지를 남겼다.단 한 가지 메시지만이었다면 그렇게 나쁘지는 않았을 텐데, 그 전에 너를 괴롭히는 패턴이 시도와 합쳐져서 그가 다시 하면 그는 막히게 될 것이다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 23:20, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
감사합니다, 선생님.닥터조이 talk to me!/ 23:47, 2013년 5월 14일 (UTC)[응답]


나는 너의 메시지를 받았다.네가 나를 차단하겠다고 협박하는 것들을 닥터죠가 어떻게 할 수 있는지 설명해줘.30년 이상 뉴스 편집자라는 그의 진술에 대해 물어봤기 때문에?하지만 그는 역사학자에게 질문할 수 있을까?

JoE박사가 "조금 오줌싸개" 할 수 있다고 한 말이 옳다.나는 가끔 위키에게 기여하고, 하리쉬는 내 지인이다.나는 닥터를 기사로 지목하려고 했지만, 그는 나와 논쟁하고 또 논쟁했다.나는 '롤'이라고 불리는 것에 싫증이 났고, 우리가 신문 기사로 그를 안내했을 때 그는 계속 '블로그 엔트리'를 언급하고 있다(그의 페이지를 확인해, 나는 그에게 링크를 주었다).그는 나와 핑클소밍이라는 이름을 가지고 있고 우리에 대해서도 개인적인 언급을 했다.솔직히, 이 남자는 그가 나에게 일으킨 괴롭힘과 그가 요구하는 "증거"를 자신에게 지시하려 했다는 또 다른 포스터를 보고해?그래서 그는 "자신을 변호할 수 있다"고 하지만 그는 나를 트롤이라고 부를 수 있고 나는 할 수 없다?

그는 또 다른 포스터인 '해리쉬(Harnisch)'에 대해 구체적으로 물었다.그러니 그를 막아!

그는 자기가 하는 일에 대해 불평한다.나는 또한 그가 "멍청이 아니다"라는 것에 대해 이의를 제기한다. 그는 우리와 의견이 다르다고 보고하기 위해 달려간 것에 의해 여기서 증명할 수 있다.원한다면 막아줘, 하지만 그건 닥터조이 같은 사람들이 하고 싶은 말을 할 수 있다는 걸 보여줄 뿐이야. 그리고 사람들이 그에게 도전할 때 너한테 달려갈 거야.정말 한심하다.자바두 (대화) 01:36, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

":그러니까 보아하니 같은 사람인가?양말푸펫이 아니면 미트푸펫이 확실해?- "닥터JoE가 '핑클위스'인지 '양말푸펫'인지 '미트푸펫'인지 물어보는 말"이게 어떻게 "미수 외출"이 아니란 말인가?자바두 (대화) 01:40, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]


  • 사랑스러워. 난 이 사냥에 개가 없어. 난 그냥 그들을 보고 전화할 뿐이야. 그리고 그 기사의 내용에 대해서는 내가 더 이상 무관심할 수 있는 방법이 없어.내 요점은 여전히 네가 그의 정체성에 대해 그를 괴롭혔다는 거야 그리고 내가 그만하고, 검토하도록 강요받았다는 주장을 충분히 했으니까 WP:편집 REVDEL.그것이 그가 행정적인 도움을 청한 타당한 이유였다.그리고 참고로, 당신을 다른 위키피디아의 정체성에 연결하는 것은 외출이 아니다.외출은 정의에 의해 누군가를 실제 세계 정체성과 연결시키는 것이다.나는 내가 처음에 충분히 명확했다고 생각하는데 그것은 논쟁거리가 아니다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 01:44, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
그럼, 다른 포스터가 래리 하니쉬인지 물어봐서 신고하고 싶네감사합니다.자바두 (대화) 01:47, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그의 논평은 여기에 있다 - 나는 여전히 당신이 '신문 편집'을 했다는 확증을 기다리고 있다.출처를 폄하하고 자신을 특별하게 만들기 위해 그런 말을 꺼낸 겁니다.그럼 줘봐.그렇지 않으면 우리는 네가 단지 또 다른 사기꾼이고 플레밍 자신일 가능성이 있다는 것을 알게 될 것이다.핀켈리움 (토크) 06:25, 2013년 5월 11일 (UTC)

아하, 트롤이 돌아온다.내가 한 말은 30년 이상 신문을 위해 글을 썼다는 것인데, 그것은 사실이다.내 신원은 상관없어 왜냐면 이건 나에 관한게 아니니까 그리고 내가 너한테 말해도 넌 날 믿지 않을거야아니, 난 플레밍이 아니야 아직 살아있는지도 모르겠어당신이 하니스치세요?닥터조이(JoeE) 리뷰 위반사항/말씀! 2013년 5월 11일 (UTC) 자바두(대화) 01:52, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

알다시피, WP:ANI는 정확히 당신의 불만을 제기하기에 적합한 포럼이다.이미 외출 주의보를 내렸으니, 아마 거기서 들려야 무능력한 관리자가 볼 수 있을 것이다.지금 상태로는 8시간도 안 돼서 일어나야 하고 맥락을 잡기 위해서 앞의 코멘트를 다 읽을 시간이 없지만 ANI에서 상황을 보면 누군가가 기뻐할 거라고 확신해.토론은 여기서 시작됐다고 말해야 해.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 01:57, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
  • 맙소사, 내가 잠을 못 자서 일어났는데 ANI에서 나를 기다리고 있는 복사/붙여넣는 일을 발견했어.난 이제 곧 잠자리에 들 거야, 분명 다른 사람이 내 보관함을 어떤 종류의 적절한 인용구에 고정시키고 그 신사를 도울 수 있을 거야.어쨌든 내 의견은 분명할 거야.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 04:58, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
  • 좋아, 상자를 고치고 유저토크에 메모를 남겼어. 박사님이 견적서의 헤더를 보니 이 사용자가 시도했지만 제대로 된 방법이 없는 것 같아.다시, 침대로...Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 05:06, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
고맙네, 데니스 나한테 알려줘서내 토크 페이지를 봐봐; 누가 그 주제에 대한 토론을 유지하려고 했는지(테드 힐리 기사) 그리고 누가 그 토론을 나에 대한 인신공격으로 바꾸려고 했는지 분명하다고 생각해.다시 말하지만, 나는 헤일리 문제를 하니쉬 씨와 함께 오프위키 문제를 풀었는데, 하니쉬 씨는 아주 좋은 사람으로 판명되었다.그 논의의 공개적인 부분은 그의 블로그에 있다. [51]문제가 해결되었다.나는 그와 논의를 계속할 것인데, 그 결과 힐리 기사가 더 좋아질 뿐만 아니라 얼마 전 그가 설명한 대로 편집자로서 환멸을 느끼면서 악화되었던 WP에 대한 믿음이 어느 정도 회복되기를 바란다.그 기사의 내용에 대한 그의 반대는 대부분 고소인이 내 토크 페이지에 첫 게시물을 올리기 전에 이미 수정되었다.고소인은 "내가 [신문] 기사를 지적하려고 노력했다"고 말하지만, 내 토크 페이지의 대화에서 알 수 있듯이, 그 출처는 이미 힐리 기사에 인용되어 있었고, 내가 그 점을 지적하려고 했을 때, 개인적으로, 그 논의는 계속 나에게로 되돌아왔다.이 모든 상호작용에서 나의 실수는 인신공격을 무시하는 나 자신의 규칙을 어긴 것이었다.그로부터 배웠고, 다시는 그 함정에 빠지지 않을 것이다.보다시피, 나는 그 싸움에서 한 번 이상 벗어나려고 애썼고, 내 신분에 대한 오해가 계속되었을 때 비로소 행정적인 원조를 구하지 않을 수 없었다.나는 더 열심히 떠나려고 노력했어야 했다; 나는 내 진짜 직장에서 항상 화끈거리고, 그것을 떨쳐버리는 법을 배웠고, 여기서도 그것을 하는 법을 배워야 한다.물론 고소인은 어떠한 오류도 인정하지 않는다.내 토크 페이지의 교환은 그 자체로 잘 말해주지만, 나는 어떤 특정한 질문에도 기꺼이 대답할 것이다.닥터JoEreview transgressions/talk to me!05:56, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
우리 모두는 때때로 예의의 한계를 밀어붙이고, '롤'이라는 단어를 이리저리 던지는 것은 대개 좋지 않은 생각이다."outing"에 대해서는, 나는 네가 외출할 때 무엇을 했는지 모르겠다.나는 그가 외출할 때 무엇을 했는지 안다. 단 한 마디의 논평 때문에가 아니라, 당신의 "진정한 정체성"을 드러내는 것에 대해 당신에게 질타하는 시리즈 때문에, 그리고 그 뒤에 revdeling을 요구하는 주장이 뒤따르기 때문이다.그것이 내가 그에게 경고를 준 이유인데, 그가 그것을 좋은 판단의 범위를 넘어 괴롭힘에 관한 경계 영역으로 밀어 넣은 것을 깨닫지 못했다는 선의 가정 하에 말이다.내가 그의 행동에 대해 조치를 취했기 때문에, 나는 그가 다른 사람들이 그의 주장을 검토할 수 있도록 허락하기 위해 여기 올 필요가 있다고 생각했지만, 내 생각에 그것은 단지 "타트"에 불과할 가능성이 더 높다.Dennis Brown - - © - @ - WER 12:58, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)에 가입[응답]
물론, "troll"은 형편없는 단어 선택이었지만, 나는 그 순간의 충동으로, 끊임없는 필요 때문에 더 나은 서술자를 생각할 수 없었다.많은 분들이 나를 알고 있고, 내가 여기 오래 있었고, 내가 싸움을 선택하지 않는다는 것을 알고 있고, 몇 가지를 해결하는 데 일조했다. 나는 작가다. 나는 그저 글 쓰는 것을 즐긴다.그리고 대니얼 웹스터가 상원 연설의 빈약함에 대해 말하곤 했던 것처럼, "나는 발길질을 당했을 때만 항의한다."글쎄, 난 발길질을 당했어닥터조이 talk to me!/ 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC) 14:19, 5월 15일[응답]


난 정말 여기서 항의해야 해.닥터죠는 여기 와서 "떠나지 않고" "단어의 선택이 서툴다"는 것을 뉘우치고 있다.그는 "순간적으로" 한번 뿐만이 아니라, "troll"을 수없이 사용했다.

나는 그의 정체를 처음 물어본 사람이 아니었다.그리고 그렇다, 나는 그가 계속해서 "뉴스 편집자로서 30년 이상"이라는 말을 꺼냈기 때문에 그에게 참거나 입을 다물라고 계속 부탁했다.핑클웨이트가 지적했듯이, "30년 이상"의 인용구를 사용하여 "출처를 파괴하고 자신을 특별하게 느끼도록 하라"고 말했다.내가 10년 동안 텔레비전 뉴스 기사에 투신했어야 내가 특별해질 수 있었을 것 같아.

그는 "키치"되지 않았다.그는 자신이 인용하고 있던 ONE 책 이외의 출처를 제공해 달라는 요청을 수없이 받았다.그는 "뉴스에 대해 계속 물어봤다"고 주장했다.

그리고 여기에 또 다른 익명의 IP 서명이 있다!그게 다 뭐야?어쨌든, 네 마음대로 해. 난 그 문제를 계속 다룰 거야.이 기사는 현재 힐리를 폭행한 것으로 알려진 세 명의 남자가 확인되지 않은 소식통에 의해 체포되었다고 말하고 있다; 그러나 부검 결과 그는 급성 및 만성 알코올 중독에 2차 급성 신장염으로 사망했고 그의 부상이 그의 죽음과 아무런 관련이 없는 것으로 나타났기 때문에, 싸움과 관련된 것으로 알려진 사람은 아무 관련이 없다.너는 이것이 "그냥 틀렸다"고 말하고 있다고 생각한다.뭐가 잘못됐고, 그 잘못을 증명하는 '실제 뉴스'는 어디에 있는가.제발 나를 이해시켜 주세요.닥터조이(JoE) 리뷰 위반/말씀! 03:03, 2013년 5월 10일(UTC)

죄송합니다, 마지막 두 개의 게시물을 만들 때 로그인을 소홀히 했었습니다. 그들은 내 것이다."실제 뉴스 기사"는 구글 뉴스 아카이브에서 테드 힐리의 빠른 검색으로 이용할 수 있다.여기 몇 가지가 있다.테드 힐리죽음은 자연적인 원인에 기인한다.'부검 결과...news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19371223... 부검 결과 얼굴 표피에 멍이 들었고, 검문은 없을 것이다. 12월 22일 로스앤젤레스. 영화 코미디언 테드 힐리의 예상하지 못한 사망은 ...루이스턴 이브닝 저널..테드에 대한 부검 명령...news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1913&dat=19371222... 부검. 무대 겸 영화 코미디언인 테드 힐리가 주먹 싸움의 영향으로 죽었는지 아닌지는 경찰이 bis 탄생을 축하하는 동성애자 축제의 절정을 이루었다.테드 힐리 프로브 중단 경찰 - 구글 뉴스 news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19371222... 로스앤젤레스 — 경찰은 테드 힐리가 오늘 부검을 통해 이 영화 코미디언이 ...라는 사실을 밝혀낸 의문의 주먹 싸움에 대한 추가 수사를 중단하겠다고 말했다.나는 "대체" 이야기를 계속 게재하는 것은 시시비비를 거듭한 만큼 잘못된 것이라고 말한다.30년 이상 된 뉴스맨이라면 이 정보를 어디서 찾아야 하는지 확실히 알아야 한다.자바두 (대화) 15:39, 10

닥터JoE는 자신을 멋있게 보이도록 하기 위한 적절한 단어와 구절만을 알고 있고 다른 사람들은 그가 단지 열심히 일하고 그것에 대해 아무런 공로를 얻지 못하는 멋진 남자라고 믿는다.만약 내가 무뚝뚝해서 그의 진실한 모습을 본다면 미안해.

하지만 나는 다른 행정관이 이것을 검토해서 왜 닥터죠가 다른 사람들을 비난하는지 정확히 알 수 있게 해주면 고맙겠다. 그는 단지 가난하고, 사람을 괴롭히는 사람일 뿐이고, 나는 단지 심술궂은 노처녀일 뿐이기 때문이다.그 사람은 허풍이 심해요.그는 결코 그것을 내버려두거나 "떠나가지 않았다"; 그는 항상 마지막 말을 해야 했다.나는 "마지막 말"에 응답한다.나도 이곳에 잠시 와 본 적이 있는데, 위키에서 고상한 자리에 열망한 적은 없지만, 사려 깊은 공헌을 했다.만약 누군가에게 그들의 경험담을 백업해 달라고 요구하거나 그들의 악의에 찬 다른 원천을 제공하라고 요구하는 것이 "공격"이라면, 세상은 곤경에 처할 것이다.몇 번이고 욕을 먹을 때만 발길질을 한다."기절됐다"고?롤. 그리고 그가 충동적으로 "롤"을 사용하지 않았다는 증거로서, 여기 그의 토크 페이지에서 또 다른 인용구가 있다.

미리 알려줘서 고마워, 난 이미 알아차렸어.그리고 미세 조정해줘서 고마워. 이제 트롤들이 사라졌으니, 우리 모두 다시 일을 시작할 수 있어.닥터조이(JoeE) 리뷰 위반사항/말씀! 2013년 5월 12일(UTC) 14:19, 12시

그리고 하니쉬와 계속 함께 일했던 것에 관해서도..하니쉬가 나에게 한 말은 그가 이메일에 답장을 보냈고, 더 이상 연락을 하지 않았고, 그럴 생각도 없었다는 것이다.그는 이 싸움에서 벗어나 객관성을 유지하기를 원한다.그는 이것 때문에 닥터와 함께 일할 생각이 없다.

그래서 JoE박사가 진실을 왜곡한다고 말하는 것은 꽤 정확하다, 만약 당신이 나에게 물어본다면. Zabadu추가한 선행 미서명 논평 (대화 기여) 23:33, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

작가들의 말을 인용하면 여기서 캐릭터의 진정성이 더해지는 것 같기 때문에, 나는 마크 트웨인이 "멍청한 사람들과 논쟁하지 말고, 그들은 당신을 그들의 수준으로 끌어내린 다음 경험으로 이길 것이다." 자바두 (토크) 21:05, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

확실히 말하자면, 이건 조 박사가 사람들의 이름을 부르는 거야이건 조 박사가 자신이 기사를 소유하고 있다고 생각하는 것에 관한 것이다.이것은 의사 조가 계속해서 제임스 본드 영화 시리즈의 프로듀서가 살인자라는 기사를 삽입하는 내용이다.그는 완전히 신빙성이 없는 책을 바탕으로 이렇게 한다.그는 마치 그것이 자신의 명예를 훼손하는 행동을 더 좋게 만든 것처럼 신문사에서 일했다고 말했다.그는 자신의 주장을 검증하라는 요청을 받았고 마치 30살짜리 아이처럼 그가 공격하고 공격했다.확실히 하자면, Doc Joe는 위키백과 핀켈리움 (대화) 04:10, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]에 설 자리가 없다.
나는 "닥 조는 위키피디아에 설 자리가 없다"는 위의 진술에 동의하지 않을 수 없다.새로운 편집자로서, 비록 그가 기사를 편집하려는 처음의 시도에서 나를 "스팸"이라고 비난한 결과로 우리가 만났지만, 그는 나를 엄청나게 도와주었다.나는 그가 왜 그렇게 생각할지 알고, 올바른 행동에 대해 더 잘 교육했다.다시 말해, 우리는 갈등을 더 높은 조화로 바꾸었고 그 결과는 더 큰 공동체에 큰 이익이 될 것이다.이런 것들에 대한 나의 무지를 용서하십시오. 나는 이 위키 세계에 처음 와본 것이지만, 우리의 시간은 서로 베일에 싸여 있든 그렇지 않든 간에 인신공격을 하는 것보다 여기에서 해야 할 엄청난 양의 일을 처리하는 데 더 많은 시간을 소비하는 것이 낫지 않을까?학계의 정점이 아닌 중학교 구내식당으로 들어선 기분이다.우리 모두 여기에 자리가 있어.내 생각엔 그게 중요한 것 같아.확실히 하자면, 닥터죠가 여기에 설 자리가 없다고 말하는 것은 비열하고 사실이 아니다.EditorAmanda (talk) 16:44, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)

그래서 닥터JoE는 스팸을 고발함으로써 누군가를 만난다.그는 나를 트롤이라고 부르고 나서 신고한다.그는 그 기사를 소유한다고 주장한다.그는 하니스치의 블로그에 댓글을 달며 "하니스치와의 소통"이라고 부른다.그는 모든 상황에서 자신을 가장 잘 보이게 하기 위해 진실을 희화화한다.고등학교 구내식당에 들어갔다고 느낄지도 모르지만, 그거 알아?그것은 또한 "학계의 핵심"도 아니다.그와 같은 주변 사람들은 그렇지 않다.그는 자기 자신 외에는 아무도 여기에 있을 곳이 없다고 느낀다.그리고 그가 도전을 받을 때, 그는 당신을 보고한다.네가 좋아할 만한 편집자는 아니지만, 모두들 그의 의견을 들을 권리가 있어.불행히도 너는 내가 물어본 실제 상황에 대해 아무런 피드백을 주지 않았어.그래 주면 고맙지.자바두 (대화) 17:01, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 조이 박사와 한통속이 아닌 편집자가 나에게 피드백을 주면 고맙겠다.
안녕, 아만다. 나는 천천히 그 원천 자료를 검토해왔는데, 만약 당신이 반대하지 않는다면, 나는 베버리 로스 스터브를 당신의 샌드박스에서 나의 샌드박스로 옮기고 싶다.그 이유는 일단 우리가 "라이브"라는 기사를 접하게 되면 누군가가 WP에서 그것에 반대할 가능성을 피하고 싶기 때문이다.COI의 근거는 -- 그리고 제 말을 믿으세요, 특히 그것이 DYK의 대기열을 만든다면, 그런 문제를 제기하는 것 보다 아무것도 좋아하지 않는 사람들이 있습니다,그것은 또한 내가 작업하는 것을 조금 더 쉽게 만들 것이다.괜찮니?닥터JoE 리뷰 위반/말씀!20:09, 2013년 5월 15일

네, 그렇게 해주세요, 닥터 조이.도와줘서 정말 고마워. 68.52.179.200 (대화) 23:52, 2013년 5월 15일 고마워.계속 연락할게. 도움이 좀 필요할 것 같아.닥터조이 리뷰 위반/말씀! 2013년 5월 16일 00:28, 5월 16일 뭘 해야 하는지만 말해주면 내가 들어간다.편집자 아만다 (토크) 16:00, 2013년 5월 16일 자필 서명한 사진 어때?(그냥 농담이야)닥터JoeE 리뷰 위반/말씀! 2013년 5월 16일(UTC) 자바두(대화) 17시 5분, 2013년 5월 16일

여기 JoE 박사님이 당신네 행정관들이 그를 어떻게 하지 않을 거라고 자랑하고 계셔.그래, 위키는 단지 하나의 큰 관리 클럽인 것 같아.'비이슈'라면 왜 신고를 하셨나요, 조이 박사님?

너에 관한 ANI 토론에 내 2센트짜리 동전 던졌어.중간에 끼어든 것을 후회하겠지만, 당신을 대신해서 내가 인물 목격자 역할을 하게 되어 감동받았어.EditorAmanda (대화) 16:53, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)

친절한 생각은 고맙지만, 그 두 사람이 계속해서 그들만의 펫타드를 가지고 있게 하는 것이 가장 좋을 것 같다. 그것은 비이슈에 대한 많은 비난이고, 관리자들의 주의의 완전한 결여는 그것이 얼마나 심각하게 받아들여지고 있는지를 보여준다. 차이점은 당신이 나의 초기의 의사소통에 이성적으로 반응했고, 그들은 그러지 않았다는 것이다. (맞아, 어제 내가 거의 "우리 5학년이야?"라고 말 할 뻔했지만, 내 혀를 잡았다.) 가끔 여기서 그런 사람들과 마주치는데, 개인적으로 받아들일 수 없어. 매우 현명한 동료 편집자의 말에 의하면, " 위키피디아에 개인적으로 취할 수 있는 것은 칭찬뿐입니다, 아시다시피. 다른 것은 모두 무작위 소음이다." 그 전기 작가들의 작품들이 언제 나오는지 기대해보겠다. JoEE 리뷰 위반/대화! 17:52, 2013년 5월 16일 (UTC)169.237.8.48 (대화) 자바두 (대화) 02:33, 2013년 5월 17일 (UTC) 회신[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Playerhistory.com과 soccer database.eu

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 AN/I 스레드에 이어 playerhistory.com과 soccerdatabase.eu에 대한 모든 링크를 제거하는 봇이 있다.토론에서 soccerdatabase.eu을 삭제한 이유를 이해할 수 있지만, playerhistory.com을 삭제하자는 주장은 "어쨌든 그들이 죽었기 때문"이라는 것이 WP를 막는 방법이 아니다.링크로트.2000년 이전 노르웨이 축구를 다룬 유일한 통계 사이트인 만큼 많은 기사에서 playerhistory.com을 인용으로 사용해 왔지만, 이제 그러한 인용문은 모두 기사에서 삭제되었다(지원되는 텍스트/논문 삭제 없이).내가 봇을 되돌리면(과제가 끝난 후), 아니면 playerhistory.com은 우리가 전혀 연결해서는 안 되는 사이트인가?멘토즈86 (대화) 09:14, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

유용한 링크 - 위키백과:Bot requests/Archive 54#Playerhistory.com, Soccerdatabase.euMediaWiki talk:스팸-블랙리스트#soccerdatabase.eu위키백과:토론/Log/2012년 6월 22일 템플릿:PlayerhistoryGiantSnowman 09:22, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
AN/I 스레드에 연결된 것처럼 읽어본 적이 있다.봇이 작업을 시작한 후 봇 요청에 대해 언급할 필요가 없으십니까?멘토즈86 (대화) 09:26, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그들은 그 상황에 더 많은 맥락을 제공한다.자이언트 스노우맨 09:28, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
My take on this matter, as the editor who submitted the bot request to remove the links. This website has been dead for at least 12 months, more like 18-24 if I remember correctly. It has been "re-launching soon!" for nearly as long. This is not a classic case of LINKROT as this does not cover newspaper articles or the like, it is a sports database which is not being updated, and therefore serves no purpose at all for active players. As for historical players, how do we know the statistics are accurate? i.e. can it be considered a reliable source? Furthermore, can the links actually be salvaged i.e. at the Wayback Machine? I cannot check as I am at work. GiantSnowman 09:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't serve any purpose for active players, but it rarely used for active players. User:Frietjes did a fantastic job replacing the citations from playerhistory.com with other sites when Template:Playerhistory disappeared, but replaced the template with <ref>{{cite web url=http://www.playerhistory.com/player/### title="Name" profile publisher=playerhistory.com}}{{dead link}}</ref> when he couldn't find another citation to replace it with, and that was mostly for players that were active before the internet-era. If we have the playerhistory-links with a deadlink template, it atleast shows that the information was verified in the past. Yes it is linkrot, but to quote WP:LINKROT: Do not delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer. WP:Verifiability does not require that all information be supported by a working link, nor does it require the source to be published online. At first, I thought the reason all the links were removed was because someone had opened a thread at WP:RSN to discover that playerhistory.com was not a reliable source. But I was surprised that they were removed simply because they were dead. I have used soccerdatabase.eu as a "wayback machine", as it looks exatcly like playerhistory.com in late 2011, but make it look like I found the info on playerhistory.com when citing in articles. Mentoz86 (talk) 10:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
누가 정보를 삭제했는가?나는 분명히 안 그랬어, 이상적으로 봇이 했어야 했던 것처럼, 나는 그것들을 우연히 마주친 곳마다 {{cn}}을 더하고 있었어.아마존닷컴은 단순히 카피라이트를 침해하는 것처럼 보이는 거울일 뿐이고 블랙리스트에 오를 것이기 때문에 아카이브로 사용되어서는 안 된다.실제 웨이백 머신을 사용해 보셨습니까?자이언트 스노우맨 10:18, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
어머나.원래 ANI 스레드를 따라갔으면 좋았을 텐데, 봇이 인용문을 포함하여 플레이어 히스토리에 대한 모든 링크도 삭제한다는 것을 몰랐어.WP:LINKVIO는 우리가 soccerdatabase.eu의 저작권을 침해한다는 것을 인정한다고 가정할 때 soccerdatabase.eu에 대한 링크를 삭제해야 한다고 말한다.외부와의 연결고리를 끊는 건 의미가 없어그러나 선수 이력이 인용된 출처로 사용되고 있는 곳에서는 사이트가 죽었다고 해서 그 인용구들이 제거되어서는 안 된다는 멘토즈86의 말이 옳다.사이트가 RS가 아닌 것으로 확인되기 전이나 그렇지 않은 경우 이들을 제자리에 두고 {{dead link}} 태그가 붙어야 한다.WP:LINKROT#DEAD 링크는 여기에 대해 명확하다.자동으로 고칠 수 있는 일이 있을까? 응원, 슈트루웨이2 (토크) 10:47, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
확실히 그 부담은 그것이 믿을 만하다는 것을 증명하는 것이지 그렇지 않다는 것을 보여주는 것이 아니다.나는 개인적으로 수리할 수 없는 2년 된 데드 링크를 유지하는 데 아무런 쓸모가 없다고 본다; 그것들을 {{cn}로 태그하고 그렇게 교체하는 것이 훨씬 더 유용하다.자이언트 스노우맨 11:23, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
인용된 출처를 단순히 데드링크라는 이유만으로 제거하는 것은 좋은 생각이 아니다.이 사이트는 다시 온라인에 접속할 수 있을 뿐만 아니라, 이 시점에서 모든 인용구를 다시 추가해야 할 필요가 있을 뿐만 아니라, 현재 오프라인 출처에 대한 인용문도 어떤 출처에 대한 언급이 전혀 없는 것보다 훨씬 낫다.사이트가 현재 다운(또는 영구적으로 다운)되어 있더라도 archive.org과 같은 아카이브 사이트는 이전 버전의 페이지를 사용할 수 있다.자펠루브 (대화) 12:04, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 (지금 세 번!) 누군가에게 내가 할 수 없는 것처럼 웨이백 머신이 링크를 보관했는지 확인해 달라고 부탁했다.자이언트 스노우맨 12:12, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 사이트에서 몇 페이지 떨어져 있다.건배, 스트루웨이2 (토크) 12:28, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
약간은 있지만 전부는 아니다?봇이 WM에서 모든 PH 링크를 복원할 수 있는가, 아니면 너무 복잡한가?자이언트 스노우맨 12:32, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
약간은 있지만 거의 아무 데도 없다.보관 링크를 검색하려면 원래 PH URL부터 시작해야 하므로, 아마도 수동 또는 자동 수정의 첫 번째 단계는 원래 봇이 제거한 PH를 복원하는 것일 것이다.건배, 스트루웨이2 (토크) 12:41, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
어제 22:00 UTC에서 오늘 04:00(UTC) 사이에 봇의 편집을 롤백한 다음 봇이 soccerdatabase.eu 링크를 다시 제거하도록 하는 것은 어떨까?지금 몇 천 개에 대한 이야기를 하고 있기 때문에 수작업으로 하는 것이 어려울 수도 있다.멘토즈86 (대화) 12:54, 2013년 5월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

Bot operator comment: Just let me know what needs to be done and I can accommodate. The bot can rollback itself, remove just soccerdatabase.eu links, add {{cn}}s, {{dead link}}s, whatever is necessary. Cheers-- Theopolisme (talk) 21:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In that case I believe the best thing would be to revert, and only remove soccerdatabase.eu links in addition to marking playerhistory.com links with {{dead link}}, to give the football-project time to replace the playerhistory-citations with other refs. Mentoz86 (talk) 07:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What I'd suggest is, if it's not too complicated:
  • rollback the bot, then;
  • external links to soccerdatabase.eu: remove;
  • citations to soccerdatabase.eu: replace with {{cn}};
  • citations to playerhistory.com: tag with {{dead link}};
  • external links to playerhistory are problematic: I would say remove them, on the basis a dead ext link has no value, but many football editors, including some who should know better, tend to "reference" infobox stats by putting a templated link to their stats database of choice in the External links section. Should we be taking that into consideration, or not? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think Struway's suggestion is extremely sensible; can we then run a report to see what pages still link to PH i.e. as an in-line cite? We can then, over time, work through the list, finding replacement sources. GiantSnowman 08:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a plan. I'll wait another day or so for any other editors to chime in if they so desire; then the bot will revert itself and process citations per Struway2's suggestions. If *many* football editors, though, prefer keeping the link in the external links section, maybe we can just tag them with {{dead link}} and be done with it? Theopolisme (talk) 11:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I'd say we definitely need to remove all Playerhistory external links. GiantSnowman 12:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Copyright violations by User:Danish Expert

Roughly 7 months ago, I noticed that User:Danish Expert had been plagiarising sources. Attempting to discuss the issue with him, and at the subsequent request for a WP:CCI ([52]), I received only resistance and denial ("I never copied word-for-word text into articles" ... "only half of the sentence was accidently an identical copy" "I forgot to use some proper quotation marks for it" ..."it is a very factual line almost impossible to rephrase with other words" "impossible to formulate otherwise, due to being listed as short factual bullet points; and not being formulated as a sentence/line" "nobody can claim a copyright violation for me to add an identical topical list to wikipedia (with the topical words identical compared to what is reported by the article), because its just not possible to change the formulation of the topical list without changing the meaning of the topical words." ... "you can not claim a copyright violation to an identically formulated "common standard technical description"") which were far from convincing that the user actually understood the issue being raised and would be able to avoid repeating it in the future.

The request was ultimately closed, after DE "promise to be extra carefull", without launching a CCI by User:MER-C who observed "This request is borderline and I'm willing to let it slide if Danish Expert checks his previous contributions to eurozone debt crisis articles for close paraphrasing."

However, the plagiarism has continued (and was even occurring while the last CCI report was still open). A quick review of his contributions since then turned up numerous concerning edits, including:

Examples of plagiarism
Danish Expert Source
[53] [54]
"The new MTO definition is designed to set country-specific values, according to the economic and budgetary position and sustainability risks of the Member State. It will be defined on basis of the state's current debt-to-GDP ratio and potential GDP growth, while the overall objective over the medium term is still to achieve a budgetary position of close to balance or in surplus. For eurozone states or ERM II Member States, the upper limit for MTOs has been set to 1% of GDP as structural deficit if the state has a combination of low debt and high potential growth. For states with a combination of high debt and low potential growth, and for states suffering from increased age related sustainability risks in the long term, the MTO-requirement shall move up to be in "balance or in surplus". The MTOs will serve the purpose of providing a safety margin towards continuously respecting the 3% deficit limit, while ensuring fiscal sustainability in the long run. ... All Eurozone states and ERM-II member states that have not yet reached their MTO, have agreed to implement yearly improvements of its structural deficit equal to minimum 0.5% of GDP. It was also agreed to pursue active consolidation of the budget when the economic conditions are favourable (periods during which actual GDP growth is above potential growth), and to use windfall revenues, as a rule, for the reduction of government deficit and debt. ... The existing early-warning mechanism is expanded, so that the European Commission can now issue an "opinion" direct to member states, without a prior Council involvement, giving advice to encourage Member States to realise the agreed adjustment path. Accordingly, the Commission will address the Council in future not only if there is an acute risk of breaching the 3% of GDP reference value, but also in cases of unjustified deviations from the adjustment path towards the MTO or the MTO itself, including in good times. ... In order to eliminate possible disincentives for structural reforms, it was agreed that, under certain conditions, certain structural reforms can justify a temporary deviation from the MTO and, for Member States that have not yet reached their MTO, temporary deviations from the adjustment path towards the MTO. If the 3% deficit limit is respected and the budgetary position is expected to return to the MTO within the four-year programme period, the Council, when assessing the MTO or the adjustment path towards it, will also accept the negative impact of major structural reforms (if they have direct long-term cost-saving effects - and can be verified to improve fiscal sustainability over the long term - i.e. pension scheme reforms)." "The new definition of the medium-term budgetary objective (MTO) is designed to better take into account the diversity of economic and budgetary positions and risks across Member States. In future, the medium-term budgetary objective of a country will be defined on the basis of its current debt ratio and potential growth, while the overall objective of achieving over the medium term a budgetary position of close to balance or in surplus remains. For Member States having adopted the euro an for those participating in the exchange rate mechanism (ERM II), the agreed range of MTOs is between – 1 % of GDP for countries with a combination of low debt and high potential growth and balance or in surplus for countries with a combination of high debt and low potential growth. The aim of the new country-specific MTO is threefold. It is designed to provide a safety margin with respect to the 3 % deficit limit, to ensure fiscal sustainability in the long run, and to improve the scope for productive public investment. ... Member States of the euro area and of ERM II that have not yet reached their MTO have agreed to achieve, as a benchmark, an annual adjustment of 0.5 % of GDP. ... Governments have agreed to pursue active consolidation of the budget when the economic conditions are favourable, i.e. in ‘good times’, and to use windfall revenues, as a rule, for the reduction of government deficit and debt. ... With a view to strengthening the preventive character of the Pact, the 2005 Ecofin report clarifies and expands the existing early-warning mechanism. The report expects the Commission to issue direct, i.e. without prior Council involvement, policy advice to encourage Member States to realise the agreed adjustment path. Accordingly, the Commission will address the Council in future not only if there is an acute risk of breaching the 3 % of GDP reference value, but also in cases of unjustified deviations from the adjustment path towards the MTO or the MTO itself, including in good times." ... "With a view to eliminating possible disincentives for structural reforms, the Council agreed that, under certain conditions, certain structural reforms can justify a temporary deviation from the MTO and, for Member States that have not yet reached their MTO, temporary deviations from the adjustment path towards the MTO. Provided that respect of the 3 % of GDP reference value is not jeopardised and the budgetary position is expected to return to the MTO within the four-year programme period, the Council, when assessing the MTO or the adjustment path towards it, will take into account major structural reforms. Only major structural reforms that have direct long-term cost-saving effects and verifiably improve fiscal sustainability over the long term will be considered. This rule pertains, in particular, to systemic reforms of the pension scheme of a Member State."
[55] [56]
"The European Commission also recently proposed the establishment of a Convergence and Competitiveness Instrument (CCI) within the EU budget. The proposal is to create a special EU budget account with earmarked money, for supporting the timely implementation of needed structural reforms (traditionally considered to be political unpopulair to implement), on the condition that "contractual arrangements" are concluded between Member States and the Commission. If the Member State implements the identified and needed structural reforms to ensure convergence/competitiveness, then the CCI budget will so to speak pay the Member State an economic reward of behaving in a sound and responsible way.

On 29 November 2012, the Economic and Monetary affairs Committee of the European Parliament voted on the framework proposal, and gave its mandate to reach an agreement with the Council, meaning that the informal trilogue can now begin.The outstanding issues for the ECOFIN council to consider at their next meeting on 4 December 2012, is to decide on the role of the national supervisors, the governance of the ECB and the voting rights within EBA.
At the council meeting there was not sufficient time to agree on any final decision, so the council will be called for a second meeting within 8 days, with the aim to conclude the work ahead of the EU summit on 13-14 December. Any change of the EU legislation about EBA require (according to article 114 of the TFEU): A qualified majority at the Council in conjunction with the Parliament's approval. While any change of the EU legislation about ECB's function/role require (according to article 127(6) of the TFEU): Unanimity for adoption by the Council, after consulting the European Parliament and the ECB."

"convergence and competitiveness instrument" within the EU budget – but separate from the MFF - to support the timely implementation of structural reforms, on the condition that "contractual arrangements" are concluded between Member States and the Commission.

On 29 November, the vote of the Economic and Monetary affairs Committee of the European Parliament gave a mandate to reach an agreement with the Council, which opens the way to starting the informal trilogue.The outstanding issues touch on the role of the national supervisors, the governance of the ECB and the voting rights within EBA.

Based on article 127(6) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, the draft ECB regulation requires unanimity for adoption by the Council, after consulting the European Parliament and the ECB."
[57] [58]
"contracting parties to make active use whenever appropriate and necessary: 1) Of the more ambitious regulations and measures applying specifically for Eurozone member states in accordance with Article 136 of the TFEU (which relates to the already existing enhanced and more strict Stability and Growth Pact regulations applying only for Eurozone member states), and 2) Of enhanced cooperation on matters that are essential for the proper functioning of the eurozone without undermining the internal market, as provided for by existing articles in the EU treaties." "Contracting Parties stand ready to make active use, whenever appropriate and necessary, of measures specific to those Member States whose currency is the euro, as provided for in Article 136 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, and of enhanced cooperation, as provided for in Article 20 of the Treaty on European Union and in Articles 326 to 334 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union on matters that are essential for the proper functioning of the euro area, without undermining the internal market."
[59] [60]
"Íslandsbanki (Icelandic for: Bank of Iceland), is an Icelandic bank with roots tracing back to 1884, formerly being the domestic part of Glitnir banki hf., but on 15 October 2008 being split from the bankrupt Glitnir and reestablished into a new independent bank. The Bank has a 20%-40% market share across all domestic franchise areas, and operates an efficient branch network in Iceland. It is being owned 5% by the Icelandic State Treasury and 95% by "ISB Holding ehf.", which is the creditor group behind the old bankrupt Glitnir bank. "with roots tracing back to 1884 ...The Bank has a 20%-40% market share across all domestic franchise areas and operates an efficient branch network in Iceland.
[61] [62]
"In March 2010, Germany presented a string of proposals as an answer to the present European sovereign debt crisis. They emphasized the intention at this point of time was not to establish a fiscal union, but simply to make the monetary union more resilient to crisis. They argued that the previous Stability and Growth Pact needed a reform to become more strict and efficient, and in return an European emergency bailout fund should be founded to assist states in financial difficulties, with bailout payments available under strict corrective fiscal action agreements - subject to approval by ECB and the Eurogroup. In case a non-collaborating state with an Excessive Deficit Procedure breached the called for adjustment path towards compliance, it should risk being fined or loose its payment of EU cohesion funds and/or loose its political voting rights in the Eurogroup. A call was also made to enforce the coordination of economic policies between eurozone members, so that all states take an active part in each other’s policymaking" "making monetary union more resilient to a crisis ... Co-ordination between euro members must be more far-reaching; they must take an active part in each other’s policymaking."

Again, the response I've received is denials and justifications ("it was not possible to reformulate the words of certain phrases compared to how they were formulated by the treaty, because in that case we would risk making the grave mistake to enforce our own interpretation of the words, which could very well be a complete misleading of the readers, so it was far better to use part of the same "phrases" as the treaty did." "specific content points could not be formulated with other words due to the source using either vague/specifically formulated references (so leaving it with 100% of my own words would simply be an even worse solution, as it would then be either inaccurately reported for the specific facts, or constitute an incorrect enforcement of my own interpretation of the meaning of the vague parts of the provision)") that don't suggest that he grasps the problem.

DE is a quite prolific editor who has made a tremendous amount of valuable contributions to the project. Unfortunately, in my experience, in addition to the above plagiarism concerns, he lacks adequate understand of many of wikipedia's core policies, in particular what wikipedia is and what it is WP:NOT. A significant fraction of what he adds is unsourced original analysis, non-notable minor details, WP:INDISCRIMINATE collections of stats, etc. See for instance a recent example at Latvia and the euro: [63] Talk:Latvia_and_the_euro#Latvia_and_the_Maastricht_criteria, [64], [65], [66].

The user means well, and I genuinely believe that he could be an excellent asset to the project if he could just better focus his immense talents on encyclopedic things. I think at the very least a CCI needs to be launched, due to the continuing plagiarism, but the page's instructions recommend seeking community input in cases where the filer has had disputes with the subject. Perhaps the best route forward would be a WP:RFC/U, to help demonstrate to DE why his edits are problematic. I really don't think that sanctions are the solution here, but believe the user would benefit from WP:ADOPTion to help guide him through all these issues. Unfortunately the user has long WP:ABF of me, so my arguments and advice on these issues is usually dismissed, but I suspect that he might be more receptive to a fresh voice. To date, the user has rejected this option, claiming they already understand all the policies. TDL (talk) 19:43, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Although, I am mostly not part of this conflict, I was invited by TDL to leave a comment here, if I wanted. TDL and Danish Expert keep having arguments over a number of articles, with TDL sticking too much to wikipedia policies, guidelines, or even essays and Danish Expert usually adopting a very liberal interpretation of the core rules of wikipedia, until everyone else disagrees with him and he lets it go. In this background, TDL has threatened Danish Expert with administrative action and has at least once summoned an administrator to mediate in one of their various disagreements and also most recently reported Danish Expert for alleged copyright violations. In the case where an administrator was involved, the administrator even suggested TDL should plot to get Danish Expert blocked.
I am frankly tired of all the arguments, which usually - but not always - concern quite technical details in the edits of Danish Expert. Usually, TDL is right in these arguments, and often Danish Expert's edits may have some flaws, such as not top quality language, missing references, contain points which are\may be true, but cannot be verified by a source, but over all, Danish Expert is adding valuable content that no other user seems to provide.
Danish Expert usually acts quite defensively to suggestions he may be wrong and, he may try to prove everyone else wrong or insist he understands everything even if he doesn't for some time - some days or 1-2 weeks - until he aligns himself to the general consensus. The problem is that he adds too much content too fast, and no one can really keep an eye on his edits all the time, to fix those secondary flaws, especially since he has rejected the idea of having a mentor.
On the other hand, since Danish Expert has faced consisted opposition and has even been reported or had to face a not-too-friendly administrator, I cannot blame him for acting so defensively. However, both sides, TDL and Danish Expert have acted quite stubbornly at times. I also acknowledge that I may not have acted properly in some of those arguments.
So, in my opinion, the main concern is how to keep Danish Expert as active, but also avoid his shortcomings, without placing him under something that would make him feel humiliated like supervision (by a mentor).
The particular incident reported by TDL here, i.e. alleged copyright infringement is in my opinion quite minor and arguable. In the previous report of TDL against Danish Expert, an administrator has replied to him in quite the same sense. Danish Expert does not willingly and blatantly just copy copyrighted text. Even from the new examples TDL has found, it can be seen that an attempt has been made to rephrase the text or attribute it to its rightful source and that some cases are just ridiculous to argue. For example, this excerpt:
"with roots tracing back to 1884, formerly being the domestic part of [[Glitnir (bank) Glitnir banki hf.]], but on 15 October 2008 being split from the bankrupt Glitnir and reestablished into a new independent bank. The Bank has a 20%-40% market share across all domestic franchise areas, and operates an efficient branch network in Iceland. It is being owned 5% by the Icelandic State Treasury and 95% by "ISB Holding ehf.", which is the creditor group behind the old bankrupt Glitnir bank.<ref name="Islandsbanki financial result 2012"/>"
seems properly sourced to me, or perhaps the source could also be repeated a bit above from where it was added, and it would totally be something I would myself add on wikipedia. Writing that the bank has roots back to 1884 and holds 20-40% of the market is rather a general "fact" or allegation, rather than something that is under immediate copyright. Since the source was properly added, I really fail to see the issue here. In the previous report of TDL, there was an example about Kasidiaris, a Greek politician, attacking some other politicians, which happened on national TV. Arguing the words stating exactly what happened, i.e. this source text:
"An arrest warrant has been issued for Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) spokesman Ilias Kasidiaris after he attacked two female parliamentary candidates on a live talk show on ANT-1 TV. Kasidiaris threw water at SYRIZA’s Rena Dourou and then repeatedly slapped Communist Party hopeful Liana Kanelli during a political debate."
are copyrighted is quite ridiculous in my sense. To explain this, let's assume we are to report that JFK got shot when he was. Obviously, the wording cannot really differ from what some journalist or author has already written on the subject:
"On Friday November 22, 1963, US president John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas."
Even though this can be rephrased somehow, its basic "facts" cannot change and I don't think copyright can be ascertained over this sentence, as it just common knowledge, much like what happened with Kasidiaris in Greece. As long as this is properly sourced, I do not see why it should be considered a major copyright violation.
The latest argument between the two editors concerned the inclusion or not of a specific sentence, appearing in some referenced source and can be found here. This in my opinion clearly indicates that the "problem" is the general actions of both editors, rather than the suggested plagiarism of Danish Expert. Both editors are quite good and add valuable content, usually complementing each other's actions, so I am really against any sanctions placed on either. However, there are general disagreements over style, and more importantly, content added, which should be somehow addressed.
The current disputes, however, are in my opinion, quite ridiculous.
I would advise any administrator that gets involved to carefully examine the edits of both users and their responses in the relevant articles' talk pages and on their user pages, before coming to any conclusions. To sum up, Danish Expert adds valuable content which may often have some issues and TDL has repeatedly tried to address those issues. However, no one can always keep an eye on Danish Expert's edits for potential issues, while also, sometimes TDL overreacts about alleged issues with Danish Expert's edits, failing to use common sense and sticking way too much to "the rules". Heracletus (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, for Heracletus has appointed himself resident psychologist for me and DE. He regularly involves himself in our disputes (even on articles which he has never edited before), thought his "mediation" is usually much more antagonistic than helpful, and usually limited to making personal critiques of our behaviour, rather than addressing the content dispute. (DE has expressed similar frustration with his habit complaining about us.)
"the administrator even suggested TDL should plot to get Danish Expert blocked." I presume that the grand conspiracy to get DE blocked which Heracletus is referring to is this comment made by User:Drmies: "You could gang up with your two fellow editors (while Heracletus isn't watching) and start a revert war to get him blocked. That's terrible manners, of course..." The comment was obviously made tounge-in-cheek, but this seems to have been lost on Heracletus.
Heracletus, you really need to read WP:Close paraphrasing as well, in particular Wikipedia:Close_paraphrasing#Example. You can't just change a few words in a sentence and claim it for your own. If you want to use the words of others, you need to use quotation marks, it's really that simple. Facts can't be copyrighted, but expressions of facts can. And while I agree that many of the issues are relatively minor, the main problem is that this is ongoing, even after being warned about it, and DE (or you) don't seem to understand WHY its problematic, which makes it likely that it will continue. As I said above, I don't think sanctions on DE are the solution. But clearly someone needs to get through to him that these types of edits aren't OK. TDL (talk) 23:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was notified by TDL about this discussion, presumably because of my involvement in discussion about Latvia and euro. I don't remember noticing anything that would suggest Danish Expert is violating copyrights. Seeing where this is going, though, I offer this - I got impression that Danish Expert is knowledgeable about the topic and probably gets carried away with his own ideas, TDL apparently noticed this and has been stalking him ever since, sincerely hoping to educate him about Wikipedia's rules although he might be pushing too hard; not sure what Heracletus' agenda is, but it seems to me this is not as much about copyrights as these three having longstanding issues with each other, which they can't figure out how to solve ~~Xil(talk) 02:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't think it's fair to claim that I'm stalking DE. The articles which we have been in conflict on are restricted to a handful (all eurozone-related) which have all been on my watchlist since before DE began editing in this topic area: [67] [68]. Looking at DE's recently contributions, there are many articles within this topic area of which he is the primary editor and which I've never touched since his first edit: [69] [70] [71] [72] [73]. As far as I can recall, I've never followed him to an article which wasn't already on my watchlist. If I'm stalking him, I'm certainly not doing a very good job of it as I missed all of the diffs listed above when they were originally made. It was only after I noticed an issue on European Fiscal Compact that I looked further into it and found the pattern repeating in other diffs. Yes, I scrutinize edits he makes to articles on my watchlist, just like when anyone else edits these pages and just like he does likewise for my edits. But that's called the normal collaborative editing process, not stalking. TDL (talk) 05:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm willing to revisit my decline, but I'll let the user conduct issues play out first. MER-C 05:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I wasn't questioning your decline. In fact, I supported it at the time. TDL (talk) 05:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@TDL (about the past: November 2012): You highly exaggerate the problem. Please stop deliberately to paint a wrong picture of my past behavior, just for the sake of stalking me. The CCI case you referred to from 7 months ago, was closed by User:MER-C, and the plagiarism you claim that I continued to do while being under CCI is NOT TRUE. In addition to your 5 reported examples back then, MER-C was able to find 1 extra backdated example which needed to be fixed. Back then I immediately engaged and solved the problem with missing quotation marks in the 6 examples being reported back then. Admittedly I briefly made one mistake in my fixing process, by accidently opting to use "italic text" as quotation marks (instead of actual quotation marks), but immediately within few hours also corrected that mistake after being noticed by User:Stfg. Back then I engaged sincerely with an open mind, corrected all past issue, and learned from my mistakes and today make far better use of quotation marks whenever needed. As this and this is an example of.
@TDL (about the Latvian case: March 2013): You highly exaggerate the problem. Last time the two of us had a clash (March 2013), was about some content I had added for the Latvia and the euro. It was solved peacefully back then. I agreed with you - and other editors in the talkpage - that certain shortcomings of the content needed to be addressed before upload, and fully accepted not to add it before reaching consensus for it at the talkpage, and until then started my ongoing work to improve the material in my sandbox. As I had a lot of things on my agenda, I have not afterwards found time to conclude it yet. I will refer readers of this point also to read my response about the discussion of my so-called "imperfect upload practice", that we had in the turm oil of the Latvian case at my user talkpage. The conclusion from this case was, that our internal discussion had made me realize in addition to a careful re-read of the wikipedia policies, that I needed in the future to start add a CN tag behind the parts of my uploads where the provided source did not fully proof a part of it followed by a "reason= line" explaining to other editors why this part had been written and no source added for the moment (in situations where the fact was not disputed, but a proper additional source had just been hard to find immediately when uploading the content).
@TDL (about the current case: May 2013): You highly exaggerate the problem. Moreover your "cited" report of my reaction to your notification is highly misleading, and so is your failed suggestion that it seems like I could not "grasps the problem". I invite all who is reading this thread to consult my full reply to TDL in this present discussion, here at my user talkpage, which proof I did grasp and actually fully agreed how this current issue should be solved (by adding direct cited quotes for the source-sensitive material), and even helped fix this issue myself! In essence the present situation was a single case, with 3 content points being clarified by me around the same time in the Content chapter of the Fiscal Compact article, where you (TDL) first corrected the 2 content points, and later discovered the third and got angry. However you entirely miss, that I immediately accepted your "edit summary" argument and correction for the first 2 content points, where you wrote it was better to make an exact quote of the source in situations where the specific line's degree of "own words" at the highest could be 20% compared to 80% identical phrases. When you discovered that both of us had not yet fixed the 3rd content point according to how the other 2 content points had been fixed, and notified me about that, I immediately engaged and fixed the issue according to your raised flag. Your cry that I do not listen, and deliberately ignore Wikipedia policies is utterly false. For unknown reasons you have now suddenly decided to intensify your hunt against me, by launching another broad attack against my account. As I pointed out in my latest reply at my user talkpage, I really genuinely think you exaggerate and hunt the wrong guy here. I acknowledge to have made a few minor policy mistakes in the past, they were never grave mistakes, and I always subsequently engaged to fix the issues you found and learned from my mistakes. If you conduct a more narrow look into my upload past, you will find that I indeed have a track-record of continuously improving my knowledge and adherence to the Wikipedia policies.
@TDL (about the newest 5 example report you launched yesterday in this thread): As a response to your newest report here at this page, where you have reported 5 new examples with a possible WP:PLAG policy breach, I will now briefly respond to you about these issues in the list below:
  1. The first case you mentioned does not count as a violation! It was some intermediate text written by me, where I had just forgot to include the <!-- --> to leave it as a hidden note. In fact I returned yesterday to reformulate it into a new version with correct add of quotation marks whenever needed, 45 minutes before your launched this report about it, here at this page. So for this case I have fixed all issues before you reported it as a problem. So this does not count as any grave error. It was only reflecting a minor mistake during my bussy working-process, that I forgot leaving the <!-- --> signs. And yesterday I fixed this issue entirely on my own, before you (or anyone else) alerted me this was even an issue, which by the way also is a proof that your claim for me not to comprehend and act according to the Wikipedia policies is utterly false.
  2. The second case contain less than 50% identical words, and in my point of view it does not constitute a copyright-violation. This is because "name of institutions" and "name of policy instruments" can not be replaced by our own invented words for the occasion. If inventing our own words for it, then readers would not know what the section was actually referring to (i.e. "Convergence and Competitiveness Instrument (CCI) within the EU budget", is such a policy instrument name that can not be changed). In addition to this observation, I however agree with you that 2 out of my written 50 lines in the section should be reformulated, as my formulation for those two lines indeed came too close to the formulation by the source. Thus I have now fixed this issue, by reformulating those two lines. All the rest of my written material in that section, do not constitute any copyright violation case.
  3. The third case you mentioned was the earlier debated 3rd content point in the Content chapter of the Fiscal Compact article. This again show how ridicules this is. Because within a few hours after you had alerted me that you and I had forgot to fix this point, I entered and fixed the problem in a perfect way. So this problem has also been solved before you opted to open up this thread against me, here at this page.
  4. The fourth case is minor. I agree with Heracletus, it is not a copyright violation. Although I acknowledge it is appropriate to reformulate the second bolded line phrase, which I just did to avoid any potential problems. Please note I still left two identical bolded phrases though, namely with roots tracing back to 1884 and a 20%-40% market share across all domestic franchise areas, which however only constitute a part of a much broader line, and thus do not constitute any copyright-violation problem as far as I am aware.
  5. The fifth case is minor. On the same lines as with case 4 above, I did not copy any text at all, but actually just happened to formulate the line in a similar way with the source by coincidence (without being aware it was so close). In my point of view it is not a copyright-violation to use by accident a small percentage of identical phrases from a certain line in a source, in cases where it is hard really to formulate the Wikipedia line in a very different way. Both case 4+5 are examples on a situation, where it is impossible to write the line completely differently, and where a google-search would reveal multiple sources sharing the same formulation as also reflected by how it is reported at the Wikipedia page and in the attached source. Nobody can claim a copyright for such identical "phrases of a line".
Summarizing my answer above: Case 1+3 was solved by myself before TDL reported it to be an issue (and should thus not have been reported by him at all). Case 2 was a minor case (with only 2 out of 50 lines admittedly by accident coming too close to the formulated line by the source), which I have solved today. Case 4+5 is not recognized be me and Heracletus to constitue a copyright-violation. If someone else than TDL, think that case 4+5 should be reformulated and/or be reported by an explicit citation (supported by the use of quotation marks), I however stand ready to do so.
My own overall conclusion: At the present there is no grave policy misunderstanding issues being present between me or TDL. All past issues have been solved, including those raised by TDL in this thread. They have all been minor and not major. I always read all "edit summaries" each time TDL perform a change of my edits, and pay attention to everything he say/does towards me or my added content. Whenever I disagree with TDL (or other editors) about some of the corrections to my edits, I then engage to discuss it peacefully with an open mind at the article's talkpage to find a solution, where I carefully listen and argue why I think the content should be kept and/or do not violate a certain Wikipedia policy, and then by argument attempt seeking consensus for my perception of the situation (you can find plenty examples of this in my present edit past). For sure I am not always winning the consensus arguments, but my rate of winning consensus arguments is at/above 50% (meaning that I am fully capable to understand and adhere to Wikipedia policies, and should not be considered to be a blindfolded loose-going missile). So I consider it to be waste of each others time, if I at this point of time should engage with a WP:MENTOR. I admit occasionally also to make minor mistakes, where I did something I should not have done. We are all humans. Whenever someone pointed out I made a mistake, this is however something I fully accept, and I always help then afterwards to fix that mistake. Based on all this fuss launched yesterday by TDL against me, I will now of course be even more careful in the future to avoid making such mistakes. On the other hand, I will however also hope that TDL in the future stop to over-react against me in the way he just did. It is not productive for any of us to blow-up a small wind to a storm, and then use countless amount of hours to navigate through that storm. Wikipedia would benefit much more, if mentor ressources instead are used to address the true damaging storms (fixing ill-behavior by those editors who truly have grave problems respecting or acting according to the Wikipedia policies). Danish Expert (talk) 08:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I do a lot of copyright work, I was asked at my talk page to look into this. Danish Expert:

  • I'm not sure if I am understanding your notes about point 1, but it sounds like you're saying that it's not a violation of copyright policy to include verbatim text outside of quotations if you put it into a hidden note. If so, this is not the case - every time you hit "save page" you are consenting to our Terms of Use, whether the text is visible or hidden. If you need intermediate stages of articles before their completion, I'm afraid you'll have to do it elsewhere. By the time you publish it here, it must comply with policy.
  • With regards to point 2, you are completely correct that names are not copyrightable. However, if you look at what you've written in the example provided, there are far more than names involved. Text like "support the timely implementation of structural reforms, on the condition that "contractual arrangements" are concluded between Member States and the Commission" is copyrightable. What you need to watch out for is creating an abridgment of your sources. Abridgments are derivative works and do constitute a paraphrase issue. When you can do what was done in that example and see that there are only a few words of your original text, there is risk you've crossed that line. There is no safe percentage of words you can copy. Copyright law in the US does not work that way.
  • With regards to point 3, solving a problem before it is brought as evidence of an issue doesn't mean that it's not an issue. :) It's great that it's repaired, of course, but it can be helpful in documenting a pattern of behavior so that we can suggest corrections.
  • With Point 4, let's be clear that we're not talking about a copied phrase but an entire sentence.
  • With Point 5, some of the bolded content does not seem to have been copied from the source. I would agree that this is a minor issue, although if it were aggregated with other similar close taking it could become a close paraphrasing issue. It's also a really good idea to use WP:INTEXT attribution when closely paraphrasing your source, to avoid plagiarism.

You need to avoid placing intermediate steps on Wikipedia where you are copying too much of your source, even if you intend to put it in a hidden note. You should also be aware that such intermediate steps done anywhere may lead you to inadvertent issues - creating an abridgment or too close of a summary. (Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing has some suggestions for avoiding that.) With your final results, please keep in mind that our policies are not engineered to aiming for a percentage of acceptable copying (which, again, doesn't exist) but rather to following the deliberately narrow strictures of WP:NFC. When you can write information you get from a copyrighted source in your own words, you frequently should; when you cannot or it is undesirable to do so (because, for example, you are attributing a point of view), you should generally quote it or (if it is a small amount) clearly indicate that you are paraphrasing your source with intext attribution. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your fast reply.
  • In regards of point 1: I stand corrected on that, and can promise you never to do such a thing again (leaving copied verbatim text temporarily as a hidden note). This was by the way a one-time incident from my side, where my ongoing work got abrupted, and my intention was to leave it as a hidden note (comprising copied cherry picked key lines from a 100 page long report) -until returning to perfect it (writing it with my complete own words). As mentioned above, the reported issue was fixed 45 minutes ahead of TDL opening up this report about it. So I actually fixed it, before anyone alerted me it was an issue. And all along I acted in good faith, of not having done anything wrong. After your reply, I realize and accept this working practice was wrong, and will avoid repeating it ever again.
  • In regards of point 2: Yes, but this line of concern was also something that I have fixed today. I will kindly ask for your opinion about if the fixed formulation I have uploaded today is a sufficient fix ?
  • In regards of point 4: Yes, but this line of concern was also something that I have fixed today. I will kindly ask for your opinion about if the fixed formulation I have uploaded today is a sufficient fix ?
Best regards, Danish Expert (talk) 12:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As no one else has responded to your query, I'll give you my input. While it's certainly an improvement, I'm not sure that revisions such as this go far enough. There are still stretches of text which are nearly identical to the source, there is a significant amount of quoted text (especially in bullet point #1) which might go beyond what is permissible and would be better written in your own words, and some of the things you've put in quotes don't actually seem to match what the source says. Plus, as SPhilbrick says below, the structure remains quite similar to the source. I think it would be better to follow Sphilbrick's advice and rewrite the section from scratch as opposed to trying to paraphrase it. TDL (talk) 07:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I saw this last night, and was unable to respond then, which turned out well for me as our resident expert has weighed in. I don't want this to be viewed as piling on—I see that MRG has identified several issues and DE seems to be taking the advice appropriately. However, when I viewed the examples (in the collapsed box) I was struck by the similarity of construction. I believe it was SandyGeorgia who pointed out an aspect of copyright that I hadn't appreciated until she explained it—that copyright infringement is not solely the use of identical or closely paraphrased words, it can include the structure as well. That is one danger inherent in starting with text, and continually paraphrasing it until you think it is no longer a violation, you may well have preserved the structure. This is one of the reasons for my usual advice to editors—read several sources, absorb the key message, then lay them aside and write it out in your own words. This is no guarantee, but it will reduce the likelihood that you have copied the same structure.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 12:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just for the record: what Heracletus cites is of course incomplete (and in the context of proper citation that's kind of ironic): my advice was to maybe start an RfC/U since, in my opinion, Danish Expert was editing against consensus. Anyone who had read the material and history for Latvian euro coins would have felt the need for a stiff drink or two and since my religion doesn't allow for alcohol consumption I expressed my weariness in another way. Drmies (talk) 13:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Drmies: No offence taken, although your cited answer to TDL: "You could gang up with your two fellow editors (while Heracletus isn't watching) and start a revert war to get him blocked", by most editors would be considered to be an inappropriate response. We should however not make the grave mistake to mix up the old "Latvian dispute" with the "current dispute", as they are completely different in nature, and because I intend to return during the summer with a more in depth response in that case, when first having finished developing my proposed content for the Latvia and the euro article in my sandbox. So I am not ready to discuss this case with any of you at this point of time, but can just briefly say that TDL back then knowingly opted to act towards me according to double standards, accepting that we upload the same table data in the Template:Euro convergence criteria, while refusing to accept that I on the same grounds decided to upload the exact same data in the Latvia and the euro article. I mentioned this to you already back in March 2013 (and to all other engaged debaters at the articles talkpage), but nobody took notice about this concern. I will return later and address this problem by pure WP arguments later in the summer. Simply put, I am just right now drowning in work, and this issue is no longer standing high on my to-do list, in particular not because my proposed disputed content is no longer displayed by the Latvia and the euro article but only visible as an unfinished draft at my sandbox. Danish Expert (talk) 14:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, as I've told you in the past, I disagree with the inclusion of your personal analysis on Template_talk:Euro_convergence_criteria as well, so there is no double standard. (And in fact I did notice your comment in March and reiterated this to you, though evidently you didn't read my response.) Just because I haven't had the energy to open up another argument with you about it, doesn't mean that I agree with it. I don't. TDL (talk) 20:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I consider Danish Expert's above opinion to have addressed what I wrote before about Drmies, though, I did not name her myself, therefore, whoever was interested enough about what had happened would unavoidably read all context present. Defending myself on intervening on talk pages of articles that my account had not edited before, I found this edit of mine, which should clearly prove that I was interested in the relation of Latvia to the euro long before the disagreement described above started on the relevant article's talk page. My last advice, to Danish Expert, would be to not promise to never do any mistakes again, just to keep improving, because I'm bored of endless disputes and he will unavoidably make mistakes again, like we all do. Heracletus (talk) 17:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kauffner circumventing deletion of Amanda Filipacchi attack page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Howdy! Kauffner has recently used his userpage to highlight the recent media attention that wikipedia has received regarding Amanda Filipacchi. The page has been blanked three times by both Alf.laylah.wa.laylah and Delicious Carbuncle citing CSD G10 attack page (which Kauffner was tagged for), BLP, and BLP a second time. Twice they were restored by people other than Kauffner, (William M. Connolley, and Launchballer) [74] [75]. Kauffner has since moved the content into a sup page and linked the subpage to his userspace. Kauffner has already discussed the matter with Delicious Carbuncle on their talkpage, where Delicious Carbuncle reitterates that this is a biography of a living person issue and that Kauffner shouldn't use his userspace as a WP:SOAPBOX. Kauffner argued that a procedure for removing the content from wikipedia hasn't been followed, and that the page was intended to be both a discussion of current wikipedia events, and that it was intended to be funny. This was brought to the BLP noticeboard, and after very little discussion the sup page was speedy deleted by Alison as a attack page. Alison chose not to participate at the BLPN, but her edit summary was "You don't get to write content disparaging a living person - even under the guise of 'satire' - especially with unfounded statements. Not cool at all."

Kauffner has chosen to circumvent Alison's decision by replacing the initial link on his page, to a link to a past difference of his home page which effectively recreates the attack page. Four editors have now told him that they believe this page violates BLP standards, and two have deleted the page under G10. Cheers! Coffeepusher (talk) 04:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment All editors named above have been notified of this discussion.Coffeepusher (talk) 04:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seriously, why is anyone even bothering with this Filipacchi stuff anymore? Pretty sure most people have gotten over it and I am close to getting over reminding people of that. I can not think of anywhere else that such silly trivialities would be regarded with so much intensity. The little pun page is no longer live so it isn't gonna pop up in search results and it is hardly the kind of thing that would normally warrant deletion. We link people to edits that are actually bad in discussions all the time and those don't get deleted.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I bother with it because an editor or two acted like spitefully angry and immature adolescents in their response to the media attention, and other editors bent over backwards to defend and explain their hissy fits. Most unseemly. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if this is about the content of that page, or the events which led to that content, or anyone personal opinion of those events. An editor has effectively circumvented the speedy deletion of an attack page on a living person. Personally I don't think it matters if it was this page or a page on Hitlers living clone, it falls under WP:BLP and should be treated as such. This is one of those rare incidents where a page which was fully deleted under G10 was created in a separate location, and those differences weren't deleted. An experienced editor found this loophole and rather than respect the G10 decision made by an experienced admin, decided to circumvent the process. That is the issue as I see it.Coffeepusher (talk) 05:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Seems there are people on both sides who haven't had enough time to cry it out. However, threads such as this are just wasting time for no good reason.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 05:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't aware that the BLP issue was Alison's call. The discussion at WP:BLPN is still open, and several editors have expressed support for the essay in the course of this dispute. Is it being suggested that we can't link to material that uses satire at the expense of a living person? Kauffner (talk) 05:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually yes, I think that linking to material that "uses satire at the expense of a living person" is exactly the definition of a WP:BLP violation.Coffeepusher (talk) 05:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Say what? What guideline says that? Kauffner (talk) 09:41, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Right here "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives: the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages" (emphasis mine). Also "Contentious material about living persons (or in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." The style of satire you are using is contentious and intended to spread titillating claims at the expense of a living person.Coffeepusher (talk) 13:44, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I made a titillating claim about Filipacchi's life?? Here I thought it was an essay about Wiki categories and other distinctly nontitillating subject matter. I'll have to read it again, that's for sure. Kauffner (talk) 14:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that that these policies require that you claim to understand my point.Coffeepusher (talk) 14:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've been asked to comment here twice; once via mention, once via talk page. Again, please don't bother notifying me of these on my talk page if you are mentioning me. You're wasting your time and mine because I would get a notification of being mentioned anyway and frankly had I wanted to respond I'd've done so by now.
I genuinely cannot see anything wrong with that content. To all intents and purposes, it is a number of paragraphs detailing the controversy of sexism on Wikipedia, with a number of sources. This is not a BLP violation and I think that the stick should be dropped.--Launchballer 06:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Either way linking to a diff of it is just a silly, trivial matter not worthy of a second thought.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 06:09, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would an admin please rev delete pages like this. That is a revision of User:Kauffner from 21:37, 13 May 2013 which (to use Alison's words) is "content disparaging a living person ... under the guise of 'satire'". That revision is featured in the link in the heading of the current User:Kauffner. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to offer one's thoughts on people. Johnuniq (talk) 06:44, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Given that Kauffner has been in hot water for his userpage before (for an admittedly different reason), you'd have thought they'd be more careful... Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Am I even looking at the same page here? All I see is a critique of the current categorisation scheme and the media's response to it. Where is the slander?--Launchballer 07:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps the mention of Filipacchi at the beginning of the essay is what people are reacting to. But there I am just using her as a example to explain how the category system works. Kauffner (talk) 09:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • You are being disingenuous. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 10:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I tend to agree. That page existed to make a WP:POINT, little more. I wouldn't classify the content as a true attack page myself, but it certainly is not an "example to explain how the category system works." Resolute 13:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • That policy says, "Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point". You think I wrote the essay to disrupt Wikipedia? My user page gets maybe five or ten readers a day. Kauffner (talk) 16:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was one of the people who warned Kauffner that their user page was in violation of WP:BLP. After I blanked it, they created a page in their userspace with the same content. I asked them to voluntary delete the page or I would bring the issue here. That page was deleted by Alison as a WP:BLP violation. I warned Kauffner to be more careful, but rather than taking my advice, they have again used their user page as a soapbox. Linking to the content in the page history is not a way around WP:BLP. Can someone revdelete that content and give Kauffner a time-out so they can contemplate our policies? Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 10:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So you're here to tell how justified your repeated vandalism was. You have a lot of nerve to show up here. I'm not only who thinks it was vandalism either.[76] Kauffner (talk) 10:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Enough is enough. The BLP violation is evident. RevDel the content out of public sight and warn Kauffner that any further attempts to exhume the deleted content will result in suspension of editing privileges.
From Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Tobias_Conradi
6.2 While users have wide discretion to use that space as they see fit, it is the Committee's understanding of present communal "best practice" and consensus, that lists of fault-finding diffs, users described as "problem users", negative postings, and other matters of a generally uncollegial kind, should be written only if needed, kept only for a limited period, and only for imminent use in dispute resolution or other reasonable and short term dispute handling. They should not be allowed - deliberately, through passage of time, good faith, wilful allusion, or neglect - to create some kind of perennial "hall of shame" or list of "disapproved, shunned or negatively viewed users".
In that case, ArbCom also approved the use of administrative tools to suppress inappropriate content which was being made accessible via things to older revisions, as is the case here. ArbCom also ruled that editors who remove such content in good faith are not editing abusively, so Kauffner's claims of vandalism are plainly invalid and should be retracted. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 12:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote an essay about a current event relevant to Wikipedia as I am authorized to do by WP:FORUM: "Personal essays on topics relating to Wikipedia are welcome in your user namespace." Don't make excuses for vandalism. Kauffner (talk) 13:03, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Its basically an opinion piece meant to keep controversy on BLP matters, our category system is one of the most complex and esoteric editing areas. It is only done by a handful of editors and requires great care for working in that area, it is one of the few area on Wikipedia that making errors or swapping and renaming tags can cause a lot of harm. I do not see why it is needed given Arb Com's stance and the history of the user over talk page matters. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 12:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have removed the link on this user's page to an old page version of the BLP-violating material in question. It is not a personal essay or an innocent diatribe, it is a snarky, mean-spirited personal attack on a living person couched in essay form . That should not be allowed to stand and should be rev-deleted promptly to avoid linking. Also, I find Amatulic's advice to keep it on a sub-page remarkably ill-advised, especially coming from an admin. Tarc (talk) 13:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have revdeleted the revisions. The content had been restored by, for instance, William M. Connolley, but they did so without giving a reason for it; the BLP arguments brought up here (by Wolfowitz and Tarc) are not sufficiently countered by "satire" or "who cares". This is a BLP matter and we need to tread carefully. Drmies (talk) 14:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This isn't a valid RD2 case Drmies. It is used for "Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material that has little/no encyclopedic or project value and/or violates our biographies of living people policy." Anyone who thinks the few incredibly tame comments about Filipacchi made amidst that otherwise indisputably kosher commentary meets those criteria needs to get a reality check. We don't rev-del stuff like this.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 15:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, since you chose the patronizing mode, I'll choose "smug": yes we do. I just did, and I did so with what appears to be a pretty strong consensus from some seasoned editors (that's a reality check, free of charge). In other words, I don't know where you got your "we" from. Drmies (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • A handful of editors with an opposing POV regarding the underlying dispute (i.e. the categorization controversy) are not a consensus by my measure. Pretty sure those opposed here are sufficiently numerous and obviously other editors objected if they restored the blanked content. Neither policy nor consensus supports the RD2 argument.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 17:52, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • So my user page is deleted a second time in the space of six weeks. What can I say? I am a standing affront to the censorship system. Perhaps this page should be protected to prevent me from editing it. A "user page topic ban" may be appropriate under the circumstances. Kauffner (talk) 17:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • If there is a censorship "system" you wouldn't be an affront but rather, in this case, a raison d'etre. You could just accept that a bunch of editors and admins disagree with what you were doing and move on. Drmies (talk) 17:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Woohoo! That will be easy now that it has been resolved that I'm a raison d'etre, the epitome of what's wrong with Wikipedia. Kauffner (talk) 20:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The text written by Kauffner should be restored unless there are the sort of attacks on BLPs mentioned by The Devil's Advocate. If some editors still argue that the text is inappropriate, we can then at least see for ourselves what it says and see if there is consensus that it should be deleted. But given what I can read in this discussion, this doesn't look like the sort of emergency BLP attack that has to be immediately dealt with which then doesn't allow the community to look at the problem. Count Iblis (talk) 17:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Plenty of editors have looked at it, prompted by this thread and the BLPN thread. May I remind you that this is the Administrators' Noticeboard, not the court of public opinion, and that two admins have now seen fit to delete the material. I refer you to the first instance, by Alison: [User:Kauffner/Restoring human dignity here], in her G10 rationale: "You don't get to write content disparaging a living person - even under the guise of 'satire' - especially with unfounded statements. Not cool at all." Drmies (talk) 18:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would say there is a difference between deleting a page that only existed to contain such content and deleting revisions on a page that has contained plenty of other content. Also, I wouldn't say Alison is completely objective on this either.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 18:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then put her up for recall, and throw me in there as well. (That's a pretty serious accusation, by the way: put up or shut up.) At some point you'll have to accept that Alison and I were voted into office (at considerable expense to us, I might add--I had to bribe over 200 people) to make these kinds of decisions. I am not aware that I did irreparable damage to the user page by revdeleting a couple of edits. Drmies (talk) 18:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think a problem here is that we're using the same standard for BLP violations on someone's userpage as we would do for article content. While this seems to be official policy, this is asking for problems. E.g. newspapers don't do this, they are liable for publishing false statements about people in regular articles, but in comments or columns the standards are lot lower. Count Iblis (talk) 18:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • In regards to "t we're using the same standard for BLP violations on someone's userpage as we would do for article content" I'd say, well, no shit? That's kinda been standard practice here for awhile now; BLP applies everywhere. Tarc (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem here is that while obviously the BLP policy should apply to all of Wikipedia, that in itself doesn't mean that what is not acceptable in an article cannot be acceptable for a personal opinion piece. E.g. if I'm of the opinion that Blair lied about WMD, there is no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to write that up in my userpage. It is then clear that this is only my opinion. If I where to edit this in the article on Tony Blair, then this is a BLP violation because Blair has not been found guilty of lying about WMD. For a text on my userpage to violate BLP on this matter, it must contain outright gratuitous insults that have little to do with simply discussing the topic. Count Iblis (talk) 20:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, there'd be two good reasons why you wouldn't be allowed to write that up on (not "in") your userpage: one, it has nothing to do with editing Wikipedia or with collaborating with other editors; and two, it's a violation of the BLP policy, which applies everywhere. It should, and does, apply everywhere on Wikipedia, which does indeed mean that what is not acceptable in an article cannot be acceptable in a personal opinion piece in userspace. BLP is BLP. Full stop. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • But if I were to actually write something like that on my userpage (b.t.w., thank you for the free of charge English lesson), it would likely happen in some discussion relevant to the editing of a Wiki-article. If people understand my perspective on the issue, that can only be helpful. In case of the CRU hacking incident which purported to show that certain climate scientists had forged data, people where free to make such claims on the talk page, but the article itself could not make such claims because there is no evidence for this claim. Obviously, it would have been an outright BLP violation to state that a certain scientist forged the data. However, the bad editing climate which led to the CC ArbCom case would have been cleared up at that time if all the involved editors actually explained their positions better. Count Iblis (talk) 16:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need for that. I am not suggesting Alison's deletion was a problem, but her remark about it was excessive and you shouldn't use that remark as a basis for invoking RD2 where it really doesn't apply.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:11, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion in line with Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 20:41, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion This really isn't the time or place for this kind of content, regardless of what namespace it was in. If you really want to post this kind of materiel, go to Uncyclopedia. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 23:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion, bury the horse, burn the stick, and get on with actually...gasp...building an encyclopedia. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion (and Drmies's RevDels) and suggest that if Kauffner continues to misuse his userspace he be banned from using it for anything other than drafting articles. (I should note that I planned on suggesting the latter point before I noticed Kauffner had himself mentioned the idea in a somewhat less pleasant tone.) As Drmies rightly notes, the fact that this is the second time in six weeks that the community has censured Kauffner for his userspace content is indicative of problems in his behaviour, not in everyone else's.PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 11:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion - Its not censorship when you knowingly engage in violating talk page guidelines and do so willingly after a recent warning. Even if it was more soapboxing, a userpage is not meant for that fashion and the image in question should not have been allowed either per guidelines, and lastly, trying to use that soapbox to provoke and sustain controversy is a concern. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:23, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I must say that it is not clear to me what warning or guideline is being referred to above. My story about how I was wikistalked was simply deleted with no suggestion that I couldn't write other things. I wonder what basis people are voting on now that the material in question can no longer be viewed. Kauffner (talk) 17:47, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I saw the page before it was deleted, and am confident in saying that it was a BLP vilation. The Bushranger and Nick, of course, can see the page whenever they want. As I said, maybe you should focus less on deflecting everything said against you, and more on remedying the issues other users are pointing out.PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 19:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion, and any future recreation of this material. Not only does it violate BLP but it represents the worst aspects of Wikipedia. I will suggest that a future recreation should be followed by an immediate block for protection of the wiki. Binksternet (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • But without clear evidence, isn't the assertion that Kauffner is guilty of high treason against Wikipedia itself not a BLP violation? Count Iblis (talk) 17:54, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion - and I strongly suggest that Kauffner gets a sanction for creating yet another dodgy userpage, and for their continued WP:IDHT responses to pretty much everything. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No trace of BLP violation to be seen in Kauffner's opnion piece'. I'm reverting NE's close of this discussion, because this discussion is not based on an evaluation of the primary facts. Few people have read the actual opinion piece written by Kauffner. Kauffner emailed it to me, and having read it I see no problems whatsoever with it as an opinion piece. Therefore I will ask that an impartial jury of 10 volunteers will read the text and if more than 6 of them say that this is unacceptable as an opinion piece in someones's userpage, it should be declared as such. Count Iblis (talk) 13:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I read it and your opinion is clearly not the consensus. Satire is a wonderful thing but satire about living people does WP:NOT belong here. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:02, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • But even if we don't want such satirical opnion pieces, it should not be framed as a BLP violation, in the real world the media doesn't do this either. So, even if a newspaper would not publish a satirical column, it would have rejected it on its own merits, not because it failed the standards for a regular article. So, the big problem I have here is that we don't distinguish between opnion pieces and articles. It is hard to see that we would really be consistent about using this standard, because this would hamper discussions if e.g. the inquiry about WMD in Britain would return with some ambiguous verdict on whether or not Blair lied about WMD. Can such a matter then be discussed freely on the talk pages, or would the editors who defend the position that Blair did not lie, shut down talk page discussions on this matter? Count Iblis (talk) 14:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • In general User's opinions are irrelevant per NOT:Forum. They should be discussing what reliable sources say, and how to represent those, if at all. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Canoe1967 and the spamming of his own pictures in cosplay (possibly other articles too)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

One swordsman defends against five others in a display at Calgary Expo 2013

I've attempted to explain to him how this is not even cosplay and it's not a proper way and how any more illustrations are not needed at all here, what he should do instead (and which is what I do, myself).

He responded to doing this and... this.

The picture attached is what he thinks is essential to be pushed into the article about cosplay (yes, a random photo that is not even showing cosplay), so much he's going to edit war about it (perfectly knowing he's edit-warring), just to have his own photos shown on Wikipedia. --Niemti (talk) 13:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, removed. Not because of any claimed COI, but just because it's irrelevant. I've long had doubts about Canoe1967's judgement across a range of edits. This sort of behaviour doesn't improve my opinion. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you consider my pictures as spam. I take good photos an only upload the best. This is my category at commons. I have 1000s more pictures that I could upload but I don't because they are crap in my opinion. I also have 1000s more that I haven't had time to upload yet. If you are really nice I may upload as public domain. It seems a shame that only me and a few just hoard it on our desktops. The cosplay article is a huge mess of few sources and mucho text of fan input. Editors should should focus on the quality and truth of the text and not the few images it has to fill it out.--Canoe1967 (talk) 13:50, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do you understand the meaning of the word "irrelevant"? Given your para above, it would seem not.
I didn't remove this photo because it was "spam" or because it was "crap", I removed it because it's not cosplay. Cosplay is something else, other than this type of re-enactment. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I note that you're still edit-warring and re-inserting it. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:23, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you think it's "a huge mess" currently, go and see the original version just 1 year ago. But you're actually right about the text (or actually, a need for more references), because the article is already perfectly well illustrated, and indeed no more pictures are needed there at all (which is what I tried to explain to you, ironically enough). --Niemti (talk) 14:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also note that since I rewrote the article last year (the article used to be a complete mess), I've kept the valuable pictures that the other people added (after uploading them). The ones with Superman and Batman, with Amidala, and with Link, and even of this panel too, because they're actually well illustrating the relevant sections, and also they're not bad - I just edited the captions, including removing the names of cosplayers/photographers from the display in the article so it wouldn't be so blatantly promotional (they're still in the descriptions of the files, just not in the article). But obviosuly it's not the case with Canoe1967's spam. --Niemti (talk) 13:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • This sounds like a content dispute, thus I recommend WP:DRN instead. Even if you find the behavior problematic, I think you need to establish the issue with content and offer an opportunity to stop doing this based on the input of fellow editors before coming here. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 13:40, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know they had sweatpants in medieval times. Unless we have articles on bad cosplay, these images appear rather useless. Tarc (talk) 14:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They needed sweatpants for their turkey legs. Duh. Drmies (talk) 14:45, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At least Niemti is trying to bring this matter up for discussion and not engage in edit warring himself. And yes, this is a content dispute perfect for WP:DRN. Which according to the content discussion here will likely be a formality, but I suggest having it done anyways. While this is not the preferred venue, to remove himself from edit warring and bring it somewhere is an improvement and shows that Niemti is willing to bring problems to other editors. That's a good improvement in my book. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sort of. There were still 4 reverts, just not within 24 hours... Minimal discussion on talk page or edit summaries either... Sergecross73 msg me 14:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think Canoe1967 harass Niemti by placing 3RR notice to his talk page [77], whereas Niemti made only one revert in this article during last week or so. And that is a behavior problem on the part of Canoe1967. Saying that, I think Niemti should simply take a wikibreak and relax. My very best wishes (talk) 15:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its a poor choice, given that its over a week late, and in poor taste, considering Canoe was equally guilty, as he reverted it 3 times as well, but I don't know if its really "harrassment". More like poorly timed and hypocritical. Sergecross73 msg me 15:24, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really? Then why didn't you revert the same warning that Niemti gave Canoe1967? Seems to me, both editors are edit warring. No matter who is "right". Looking through the sequence of events that lead up to this ANI thread, it seems that bot users are at fault, but Niemti is exhibiting the same type of behavior that has had the editor blocked before. Canoe1967 added an image(one that seems to actually fit the article) with the edit summary of "Expanding article". Niemti undid the edit without comment. Canoe1967 readded the image with the edit summary of "Please explain on talk page or edit summary and seek consensus before further removal". To which Niemti promptly reverted with the edit summary of "Not needed(and ugly)". Which evolved into the edit war above, with both editors reverting each other. So this is at least both editors fault, and if Niemti would stop editing in the abrasive manner, perhaps he/she wouldn't find themselves constantly at ANI. Dave Dial (talk) 15:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agreed. Both users kept on reverting each other with minimal discussion or edit summaries, and both left warnings the same warnings about edit warring in bad taste, so I can't classify any of this as "harrassment". Sergecross73 msg me 15:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Re. I did not remove 3RR notice from talk page of Canoe1967 for two reasons. First, he indeed made two (or possibly three) reverts in the same article over a few hours, unlike Niemti who made only one revert during a few last days. Second, it was Canoe1967 who placed this message first, which obviously provoked the response. My very best wishes (talk) 16:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Canoe1967 userpage encouraging vandalism

Am I the only one concerned that Canoe1967 has a request on his userpage for others to vandalise the userpages of "deletionists"? — Richard BB 15:29, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't noticed that. I would think that he's free to have his image about deletionists, but not free to tell people to use it for vandalism purposes... Sergecross73msg me 15:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree entirely. Any request for people to vandalise any area of Wikipedia is unacceptable (and it seems that he's trying to make a point in retaliation for something he added being deleted). — Richard BB 15:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask him to remove this unless anyone opposes? Sergecross73 msg me 15:54, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was removed, he re-added. I have re-removed, and unfortunately full-protected his userpage for now - until he recognizes that consensus has always been that encouraging vandalism of any form is verboten - the consensus above merely solidifies existing consensus. Any similar re-addition anywhere on this project should be considered disruptive and handled accordingly (✉→BWilkins←✎) 23:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unquestionably, that kind of posting is a WP:DE issue and isn't even a point worth debating. I think protecting was the best of the two options as well. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 00:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is incredibly silly. YOU ARE CENSORING HIM FROM HAVING THAT GENTLE JOKE ON HIS OWN PAGE!?!? There is no actual vandalism threat and the fellow has had that thing on his page for ages with no problem of people vandalizing with it. And Bwilkens has a long history of having a hard on for over-regulating others. But I'm going to counsel Canoe, to just ignore you little chipmunks while thinking to himself how silly the type of people who frequent this notice board are.TCO (talk) 01:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:UP#POLEMIC applies, and while the ideal method would be to notify the matter first, this call to vandalize a group of editors, namely 'deletionists' is an example of one thing that is not favorable. The anti-admin banner on your page is probably no different. Censorship does not apply when you knowingly and purposely seek to create a divisive or launch attacks at other users, user pages are no exception. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 01:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
TCO, you might want to mind WP:NPA. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem isn't his viewpoints, he's free to hate deletionists or admin or whatever as long as their not personal attacks, which this example is not. The problem is that he's very literally encouraging people to do vandalize other's user pages. Vandalism = bad faith edits. It'd be one thing to encourage others to use the same tag, but if he's saying vandalize, it seems like that's putting that tag up on people's user page against their will. How can you possibly justify someone coming into a group with established rules, and saying "Hey, let's break a very basic and clear cut rule." You complain about censorship, but promote the forcing of viewpoints on to people's user pages? Sergecross73 msg me 13:08, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's now come to my attention that Canoe is deleting GiantSnowman's comments from his talk page with a misleading edit summary (and has apparently been doing so for some time), by declaring that GiantSnowman is "banned" from his talk page. Not the most friendly attitude. — Richard BB 14:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty more diffs in the talk page history of exactly that kind of behaviour, simply search for my name, you will find Canoe almost immediately reverting me with "copyedit (minor)" or similar as the summary. I eventually gave up trying to have reasoned discussion with him and moved onto other things; it appears he has failed to do so seeing as he 'notified' me to the fresh discussion on his userpage, despite me being completely uninvolved with any of it, and despite us not interacting at all for God knows how long. GiantSnowman 15:14, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That checks out. [78] Removing ANI templates with the same edit summary. [79] And even refactoring blocking comments of other users. [80] A long history of removing comments and warnings with this tag is apparent. [81] At this point, I think it is a chronic problem that needs to be dealt with. Altering blocking comments being a major concern. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)If everyone would just calm down a bit, I've had pretty much worked things out him. Through calm discussion, he said he now understands why the bit about the vandalism is wrong, and seems to agree not to add it back in to his userpage. As far as declaring people "banned from his user/talk page", no, you can't formally ban people from it, but people are free to remove other people's comments from user/talk pages. Its generally considered bad form, but his is free to do so. If people would just tone it down a bit and stop nitpicking, we can work this out. (Yes, altering warnings is not okay, and he should be instructed as such, but he's not currently blocked or anything, so it's not really the issue here. Sergecross73 msg me 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ridiculous This is just a ridiculous pile on -- having been brought to ANI, a search for more bad "stuff" about a currently unpopular editor is executed. The "offending" text was inserted 24 April 2012. Lacking any diffs of a rash of vandalism on so called "deletionists," there's no evidence that the content was causing disruption -- the disruption here is 1. nitpicking about it on ANI, 2. an editor editing another editor's user page, and 3. fully protecting the page. It's obviously a lame joke and best ignored. (Attempts at) humor are not prohibited on Wikipedia; if they were we should be sanctioning User:Drmies for bribing their way to admin per their recent "confession". (I'm offended, of course, not on principle but because I wasn't one of the 200 beneficiaries.) NE Ent 13:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ent, I still don't know what happened: did I PayPal the $100 to the wrong email address? I'm sorry. Or was it not enough? Also, yeah, "calling" on editors to vandalize this or that is probably in poor taste, but one would have to be kind of a moron already to follow that kind of "advice". I don't find this actionable and I think we have bigger fish to fry here and elsewhere. I just read that of all wiki edits 95% take place on the English wiki--no doubt that number would go down considerably if we stopped fussing over every little thing here. Thanks Ent, Drmies (talk) 16:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wrapping this up

Alright then, through discussing with the user, he now understanding the issues brought up here, and has stated he will stop, and check with others first before adding potentially controversial things to user/talk page. As such, I'll be removing his page protection now, as its no longer necessary. Let me know if anyone opposes this, as I have no intentions on wheel warring, though I really feel that this has all been closed up just fine now. Lets all move on to other issues/projects. Sergecross73 msg me 14:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Close thread User has agreed not to post any more inflammatory content on their user pages. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 15:06, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close thread - Well, that's all folks! Now, go edit somewhere else. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:09, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close per above. As someone whom has requested action on userpages in the past, I had noted this one long ago, and, although I found it a bit out of order and stupid, decided to ignore it. As most people clearly had as well. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 19:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Legal threats, User:74.218.250.83

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Anon user 74.218.250.83 was blocked for the persistent false addition of material to various Ohio State related pages, namely, that one Giovanni Strassini or Giova Stroh had played football and baseball for the school and had won various honors. Those names appear nowhere in any reliable source and the claims are demonstrably false. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_football#.22Giovanni_Strassini.22 for more on that. Once the IP was blocked, the user continued editing from other IPs, which were also blocked. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/74.218.250.83/Archive for some but not all of these. The subject IP retained the ability to post to his Talk page, and has done so. It was fine (if unenlightening and a bit of a waste of time) until recently when he began removing from others' comments the names he'd previously been trying to insert into the articles, and then posting legal threats when other editors restored their own comments. E.g. of perhaps two or three instances. I ask that the IP's access to his Talk page be removed, and that the IP be blocked for whatever length of time is deemed suitable. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 14:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Said IP was the one to introduce the names in question ("Giovanni Strassini" and "Giova Stroh") to various Wikipedia articles (e.g.,[82], [83], [84]). Only now he began to refer to those names as his name [85] and started to delete them from other users' discussion entries because of claimed violation of privacy laws. This is by no means a violation of anyone's privacy laws, because said IP deliberately invalidated them for himself. --bender235 (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • TPA revoked. If someone feels the block should be lengthened, go for it--I think this is run-of-the-mill vandalism of the stupid kind and it will blow over. Drmies (talk) 14:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. But - um, two minutes later he's still posting to the page? JohnInDC (talk) 14:46, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I can confirm now that he still has Talk page access and is making the same edits and threats. JohnInDC (talk) 15:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a slip of the button on Drmies's part. Changed the block to correspond to his comments.—Kww(talk) 15:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I certainly understand slipped buttons. (There should be a preference for iPads to require two clicks on a rollback button!) Thanks for cleaning that up. JohnInDC (talk) 15:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Whoa! My apologies. Drmies (talk) 17:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. Can someone please block this obvious sock, Special:Contributions/Stroh013, and semi-protect the IP Talk page? Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 15:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Already done by Kww. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:19, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I got this message from 168.215.131.150 (talk · contribs) which is an obvious sock. Left a message on my talk page, here. Directed to OTRS, but the clear evidence of a massive campaign for this hoax is disturbing. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me to be one of two things. The first possibility is that a wholly innocent Giovanni Strassini of Charlotte, NC, has been the unwitting victim of a 4+ year scheme to portray him as an OSU football and baseball star, which scheme has extended to impersonated appearances in Charlotte bars with an OSU alumni group, extensive interlinked Wikipedia entries (all by Charlotte IPs), bio postings to IMDB, two Facebook pages and a Twitter account, all of which became known to Strassini only during a recent 48 hour period when Wikipedia editors began to strip the articles of the unsourced (& false) information; whereupon Strassini raised his concerns editing from, and on the Talk page of, an IP address that only about 12 hours earlier had used by the conspiracy to add his name to the encyclopedia. That's one. The other possibility is that Strassini was a participant and, now that "proof" of his athletic career has been removed from Wikipedia, he now seeks to remove discussion of the circumstances of its removal. Maybe there's a third possibility that somehow logically weaves in the claims about ID theft, but I can't think of what it might be. I guess it's up to OTRS to sort it all out. JohnInDC (talk) 20:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When dealing with issues like this, the simplest explanation is often the correct one. And editing from the same computer within 48 hours from the issue, seems a bit much. So is the confirmed proxy (public IP) used on my page. The level of forgery to make a fake ring and sign a bowling pin and place it on display seems to me that this might be an elaborate and perhaps deliberate hoax put into Wikipedia as some social experiment. Professors have put their students up to this before as well. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 20:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It could be a lot of things I guess. Googling this name turns up, in addition to a bundle of user-supplied references to an illustrious (albeit wholly fictional) OSU career, an Ohio court decision about a former North Carolina and Ohio resident bearing that same name, which decision does not cast the person in a favorable light at all. Wikipedia may be the point of the hoax or just collateral damage, hard to say. In any case the OSU information is false, it's gone now, and editors know to look for it if it returns. So I suppose no matter what else happens we're better off now. JohnInDC (talk) 21:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible violation of WP:NLT at Talk:Kermit Gosnell#Legally dangerous wording

Specifically referring to the comments of User:Yug User talk:Yug in that section of the talk page. It is in the gray area and so probably deserves a look by an administrator. Safiel (talk) 21:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does not seem to be a threat against the editor or Wikipedia but more a concern of a future legal matter because of the wording. Yes it is borderline, but the matter of copyright and libel comes up regularly with contested issues and editors holding those concerns do not get warnings or blocking for NLT. "Remove this or I'll sue" is a legal threat" And after the NLT matter came up the response included "... This is a political POV issue, and doesn't stem from any concern about Wikipedia's perceived legal risk. Federales (talk) 16:31, 16 May 2013 (UTC)" Because we have WP:BLP I believe it is fair to say that an experienced editor like Yug did not intend a legal threat in any shape or form, but was corned about BLP matters and specifically cited the reason why. Poor wording when seen out of context, but not a legal threat and not deserving of action. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 22:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is no plausible legal threat made by User:Yug in the discussion. They are simply pointing to the possibility of a lawsuit by a third party over which they have no control or influence and the resultant hurt that may be caused to the Foundation as a consequence. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons says: "Wikipedia contains hundreds of thousands of articles about living persons. From both a legal and ethical standpoint it is essential that a determined effort be made to eliminate defamatory and other inappropriate material from these articles [...]." — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 23:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am agreeable with the sentiments expressed by both above editors. I decided it would be prudent to bring it here, as some editors had expressed a concern, but yes, it looks more like a bad choice of words, rather than a violation. Safiel (talk) 00:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yug: To keep it short, my concern was indeed following WP:BLP recommandations, best expressed in "From both a legal and ethical standpoint it is essential that a determined effort be made to eliminate defamatory and other inappropriate material from these articles [...]." The former "babies/infants [...] hundred [...] spining" means hundred cold blood born babies killing and is extremly shocking. A good wiki POV push to be taken by "muckrakers" journalists to create an artificial controversy. Yug (talk) 08:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's quicker to read the talk page than it is what's written here. There's absolutely no legal threat here, this has no business at ANI. Quoting a grand jury report in the U.S. in the way it's done here isn't even in the same ballpark as libel. The real dispute is over whether to use the term "infant" or "fetus", presumably because one assumes personhood and one does not. I have no interest in getting involved in that debate, but none of that has anything to do with ANI. Shadowjams (talk) 17:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Translation

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello,

I was about to create a new article under the form of a translation which would have been issued from a text which was originally published in French, but I have found this warning message → [86].

I do not know what the subject of this aforesaid deleted writing was. Nevertheless, the new text that I was about to integrate is specifically linked to a well known Swiss healer who has been the main subject of one of the weekly TV show entitled Passe-moi les jumelles which was broadcast on the Radio télévision suisse : → [87]

Question:

  • Am I allowed to create this new article, in spite of the fact that a former text (which, I presume, was probably not connected to the original content) has already been deleted?

Thank you for your help and advices!

Kindest regards!

euphonie breviary
00:23, 03:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • You can create it without a problem. That just means that someone else had created the article before and an admin deleted it because the person that created it was a WP:sockpuppet. When someone abuses multiple accounts, we delete the articles created by those socks as long as no one else has contributed anything important to them. It isn't a warning, it is just a notice. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 00:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your reply! Kind regards! — euphonie breviary 03:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Special:Contributions/50.73.253.49

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

50.73.253.49 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (notified) is an uncollaborative and disruptive unregistered person residing in Southern United States. Apart of his/her two-months-long disruption in articles, formerly as 99.102.158.150 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), s/he tried two times to alter the posting of an IP user from Russia, the second time in spite of an explicit warning that it constitutes a serious offence. I request a block to this IP for a reasonable term, not just 24 hours. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 06:52, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I blocked them now for a month; if they continue after the block expires a longer block will be in order.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:01, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Emergency protection needed on Rob Ford

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Gawker Media has released a "news story" in which they allege that the Mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford, has been caught on video smoking crack, according to an unnamed source. They say in the article they cannot prove it until they can purchase the video from the source. This is bordering defamation, but that's Gawker problem and I assume they are pretty much lawyered up. The issue is that now people are adding these "facts" (again, unproven) into Wikipedia's Rob Ford article. These very serious allegations have yet to be proven and carry a massive libel potential. This article needs to be protected ASAP. UpstreamPaddler (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This especially true considering the subject is a WP:BLP. UpstreamPaddler (talk) 07:38, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd point out that this is not only Gawker Media. Still, what you say is basically right, and I have therefore semi-protected the article. See here for my (I hope innocuous) comments. (As I've said there, if full protection seems to be called for, go ahead without consulting me.) -- Hoary (talk) 07:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, that's probably good enough for now. I have no problem with the inclusion of the allegations if/when they are proven or if Ford resigns or whatever, but until then, it's a shaky story, relying on a whole lot of "my guy says so," "appears to be", and "according to"s. Given that Wikipedia is dead serious about BLPs (and rightly so), it seemed a wise move to protect. Gawker and the Toronto Star have the means to disregard ethics and/or fight libel lawsuits, the WMF much less so. UpstreamPaddler (talk) 08:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Lfdder and accusations in lie

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The user got upset that the Chalkidiki Greek was taken to AfD instead of speedy deletion (which it is not amenable to), and accused a user in being "dishonest". I asked them to assume good faith and stop accusations. Then they accused another user in "lying". I had to go to their talk page and warn them that next time they would be taken to ANI, and also asked them again to be civil. They obviously read the warning since they reverted it calling it "rubbish". Now, the "next time" came in a couple of hours, when they insisted on the accusations in lying and additionally accused me in being "a bunch of muppets". (They also implied I am a friend of User:Dennis Brown, which I am not - I have no firends on Wikipedia, but I can survive this accusation). I am afraid time for blocks has come. Enough is enough.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have to support a block. I can't claim to have been 100% level-headed in this dispute, but Lfdder is bang out of order yet again; instead of apologizing for being deliberately disruptive earlier, and promising not to do it again, they're attacking anyone who wants to follow due process and who disagrees with them. Also, someone needs to speak to User:Taivo about WP:NPA, whom has made some inappropriate comments about Dennis Brown (and admins in general), simply because Dennis chose to follow guidelines to the letter. Lukeno94(tell Luke off here) 12:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I trust Taivo shall be whipped in the most righteous manner. — Lfdder (talk) 13:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I unprotected the article for the sole purpose of it being sent to AFD and stated as much, with the comment that I would send to AFD is no one else did. As with any article where there is controversy with its deletion for any reason and CSD doesn't apply, AFD is the venue of choice, something every experienced editor and admin should know. As for the personal attacks and snide comments made by a few, I'm not affected as they say more about the persons making them than it does about me. The overall unprofessional behavior and drama mongering is a larger concern. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 12:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • It should really not be necessary to re-hash the procedural disagreement here, but since you reopened it, I have to say I am disappointed with the dismissive tone with which you are now presenting your choice as the only procedurally correct one ("something every experienced editor and admin should know", no less!), seemingly oblivious to the well-founded procedural objections to it. The disagreement is this: AfD as opposed to Prod is the only method of choice not simply whenever "theres controversy with its deletion for any reason", but only when there are actual objections to the outcome of a deletion proposal. In this case, there had been (regrettable) brouhaha over the deletion process, but, as several people have been reminding you, not about the merits of the case itself. I continue to hold that de-prodding and opening a pro forma AfD instead in this situation was a poor choice and by no means proper process, and it played an unfortunate role in permeating the drama. Fut.Perf. 12:56, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • It wasn't the only choice, but it was the forum of choice as it guarantees an outcome within a week and the time to thoughtfully discuss it. And one I clearly indicated I would pursue as a condition of unprotecting. As for permeating the drama, you could have chosen to simply comment only on the merits at the AFD just as I have, but sadly, you did not. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 13:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • I commented on your choice of process at the AfD because I felt your choice of process was worthy of criticism. You got a problem with that? – Oh, and your argument now ("I set it as a condition for unprotecting"), with which you have again failed to address the substantive objection I raised and which amounts to little else beyond "because I said so", will do little to allay other editors concern that this whole thing looks like evidence of an admin on a power trip. Fut.Perf. 13:33, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • (edit conflict)Yes. Commenting on the motivations or methods of the nominator is inappropriate at AFD for any editor to do. It was drama mongering, just as your tone here is. I expect it from new users, but not from admin. You could have taken it to my talk page, or at the ongoing ANI discussion (or better yet, just !voted and left off the commentary), but you chose to be the first to comment and the first to drag the drama into that process. And since I was essentially reverting another admin without consulting them first, setting that condition was reasonable considering deletion was your objective anyway. You could have taken it to RFPP or asked DGG to self-revert. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 13:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • You might note that the article has now been deleted via SNOW, faster and more sure than a PROD, and now it can be deleted via CSD#G4 if it shows up again. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 14:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • You just don't get it, do you? FutPerf didn't set the spark off; you did. Stop trying to put the blame on him 'cos all you'll achieve is to drag your credibility even further down. — Lfdder (talk) 14:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • A condition? Who are you to set conditions? Should've just left it there till it expired then. Would've saved us all the trouble. — Lfdder (talk) 13:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ah yes, the moral high ground. Very easy to climb when you're the decider. You moved the process to AfD for no good reason, Drmsomething throws a tantrum, DGG protects a page out of nowhere, but that's all overlooked. I point out you lied (which you did), feelings hurt all around, block this imbecile who dare question admins authority and integrity. — Lfdder (talk) 13:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The user got upset that the Chalkidiki Greek was taken to AfD instead of speedy deletion I did not get upset that it wasn't speedy-deleted. Need to get your facts straight. — Lfdder (talk) 13:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Not really a good excuse for grossly incivil and clownish behavior.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear, did you just call me a clown? Off to ANI. Oh wait.... — Lfdder (talk) 14:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suspicious editing by IP

I have a high level of suspicion regarding the editing from the following IP addresses I believe them to be one and the same. 94.2.4.145 94.9.98.107, 2.120.46.143 and 130.88.52.43 are all one and the same editor. I originally had a dispute with IP 94.2.4.145/94.9.98.107 who then became 2.120.46.143 which is not suspicious in and of itself. That dispute went away and now today all of a sudden a brand new IP 130.88.52.43 appears and begins to rubbish me as an editor and back up the positions of 94.2.4.145/94.9.98.107 as if they were a separate user. They have also made identical edits of 94.2.4.145 and used identical language such as to maintain "consistency" and only editing County Council articles. If specific diffs are required just ask and they shall be provided. Sport and politics (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You should probably move this to ANI. Shadowjams (talk) 17:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I can confirm that I am not the same person as 94.9.98.107. However I do feel that it is important that I am open and honest in saying that I am editing from a public Library and that this therefore not my own IP address. I have however picked up where 94.9.98.107 has left off. I waited a few days for the page to go cold before doing so. Given Sport and politics' recent edits and reporting to this page, I sincerely hope that they are not taken seriously. many Thanks 130.88.52.43 (talk) 17:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I quite simply do not believe a single word that there is somehow a brand new unrelated IP who has coincidentally just happened to be editing all of the same pages as the previous IP as their first edits since 2008. The probabilities are just way to small the suspicions are way too high. The activity is classic tag teaming .Sport and politics (talk) 17:37, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The ones the OP linked are all on the same ISP, except for one, which is at a University, but it's also a very common ISP in the UK. I don't know anything beyond that. Shadowjams (talk) 17:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Believe what you like, it is not your word we will be going with here, given your warning! Are you going to accuse User:Pilchard of the same thing? they have been making multiple edits to these articles to 130.88.52.43 (talk) 17:43, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am editing from a Library. I have done nothing wrong. 130.88.52.43 (talk) 17:44, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please run a search on the ISP I am accused of being and that should hopefully solve this. 130.88.52.43 (talk) 17:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please see the continuation of the same edit warring beheaviour here by 130.88.52.43 that was a direct continuation from the same beheaviour of 94.9.98.107 here. Sport and politics (talk) 17:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thats it then they are the same person they have simply moved from their domestic IP to a Library IP. Simple case conclusion the editor has simply moved from where ever they are living to the library and hey presto new IP address with identical editing.Sport and politics (talk) 17:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hangon a minute, lets wait until we find out where this other IP is. The odds are that that IP isn't even in the same city as me, seriously what are the odds? I am not the same person and you are beginning to really get on my nerves, a complaint with a fully documented record of your behaviour will be provided if you do not stop this childish behaviour. You are digging yourself a whole here. I suggest you stop before an administrator provides the evidence to say that the other IP is nowhere near I am, which no doubt they will. 130.88.52.43 (talk) 18:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A new IP editor shows up editing using the same language such as accusing me of being a vandal, and then stating that the editing is for consistency. Edit warring to restore the older IPs preferred version of pages and using nigh on the same language in the edit summaries. The IP backs up the other IP to the hilt on talk pages and the only pages edited are exactly the same as the other IP. this is very reasonable grounds for this referral and the suspicion is more than justified. This is a very obvious case of tag teaming by moving IP address. Sport and politics (talk) 18:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Like I say, when locations are checked your assumption will be proved false. However, I will address your points:
1. "Vandalism" is a clearly defined Wikipedia term. Removing "sourced material" is considered to be "vandalism". the language I am using is in fact Wikipedia's language.
2. I came across the pages after the event and could not for the life of me understand why an info box was so objectionable to you and why that also meant you had the right to remove other "sourced material". When there are multiple articles around the same thing, it is Wikipedia policy that we at least try and be consistent. I have read your heated exchange with the IP and they were right to point out that there are election boxes on every other kind of elections page. Your excuse was that they had local politicians and would violate Wikipedia policy by giving prominence to minor politicians. Since politician's names do not appear in these info boxes, your point can be disregarded. It is clear the edits were made to suit your personal preference, as your edits added nothing to the article. I can't see any other reason why having all these articles following the same template as other similar articles is so offensive to you as it is fully compliant with wikipedia policy.
3. As for your accusation of "tag teaming" via multiple IPs, this accusation will unravel when the location of the IPs announced.130.88.52.43 (talk) 18:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We will see i am sure of it i still do not believe a single word that this is all happen-chance and coincidence . The editing beheaviour is far far far too similar and the pages edited are very limited and exactly the same, Asofor a "new" IP to suddenly appear and do this adds to the lack of coincidence. Sport and politics (talk) 18:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC),[reply]
I do not accept that. This is not a new IP in the sense that you imply, I have edited wikipedia from time to time from this library if you look through the range of IPs you will see this. many other students do as well. You clearly do not understand how it works. Its not my logon that has an IP, it is the computer I have logged into. I have logged into maybe a hundred computers in this library over the years. This is the first time I have sat at this particular PC, so my other edits will be registered to other similar IPs. If you understood how it worked you would probably be a little less paranoid, you might need to see someone about that by the way. Don't take that as an "act of bad faith", its more of an act of concern for you :-) 130.88.52.43 (talk) 18:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that Sport and politics is making reference to Wikipedia:The duck test. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I realise that but we have a much more conclusive test: checking the location of the IPs. [User:Sport and politics Sport and politics]] can quack all he/she likes but if the "duck" is in the Arctic it probably isn't a duck ;-) 130.88.52.43 (talk) 19:13, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You should probably re-read WP:VANDAL. Also note that in Wikipedia's language, vandal and related words use an 'a' whereas both 130.88.52.43 and 94.2.4.145 seem to prefer an 'e'. Probably just another coincidence. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:09, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 94.2.4.145 - Sky Broadband, London (the Large ISP mentioned above)
  • 94.9.98.107 - Sky Broadband, London
  • 2.120.46.143 - Sky Broadband, London
  • 130.88.52.43 - University of Manchester, Manchester (oddly enough)
The fourth doesn't seem to be the same individual, the first three may be. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly 94.9.98.107 is 94.2.4.145 and 2.120.46.143. I don't trust geolocation tools too much, but I would say they put these IPs about an hour or two east of Manchester, which is where 130.88.52.43 is editing from. On the surface the IP seems to be full of it. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I rest my case. can we end this nonsense? Better still can action be taken against [User:Sport and politics Sport and politics]], this is after all the 2nd time that they have wasted admin time in the space of a weak by making accusations. Bearing in mind they have already been warned, please see bottom of this link, the user seems to have removed it from their page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sport_and_politics&oldid=554762900 I recommend a 1 month block. There is nothing to say that [User:Sport and politics Sport and politics]] is going to stop misbehaving. 130.88.52.43 (talk) 19:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

An hour or 2 East of Manchester, that is ages away. That could be in anywhere on the East Coast, or even in Wales for heaven sake, I can hardly be going that far to edit Wikipedia for heaven sake!130.88.52.43 (talk) 19:24, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Correction, I get East and West muddled :-s That could be anywhere from Newcastle to Peterborough and anywhere in between. My geography isn't quite that bad lol 19:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.52.43 (talk)
In terms of geolocation accuracy, you are practically sitting next to each other. What is it, an hour's commute to the Uni? Have you considered dispute resolution? -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent) Say what you like you and the other IPs from a beheaviour analysis are identical. Sport and politics (talk) 19:33, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the looking at the beheaviour pattern of these edits it is plainly obvious that all are the same. Simply stopping editing and upping sticks back to uni from London is not uncommon and not unusual. This I{ is getting away with wild and unfounded accusations and bizarre demands of blocks for beheaviour. They also seem not to understand that users can remove what they like and keep what they like on their user talk page. Can an admin just do a simple beheaviour analysis, then the clear cut nature of this multiplicity and tag teaming will be stupidly clear. Sport and politics (talk) 19:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would wager on somewhere near Huddersfield, and that the train to Uni takes a little over half an hour. Let's assume this is the same user (I would suggest you do the same in the future), and that they have been economical with the actualité on this particular noticeboard. Remind us, where exactly is the problem? This seems to me, and I would guess not just me, like another content dispute where both users are trying to get the other side banned. -- zzuuzz (talk) 20:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please see below some diffs to illustrate why the new Ip address is suspicious. [88] The new ip jumps in to talk page discussion backing up the other ip in the talk page.
[89] where the edits the same articles as the previous IP when the edits are the first edits by the IP address in over 5 years. The other IPs edit history can be seen here
referring to me as a vandal and claiming consistency 94 IP, 94 ip and 103 iP.
identacle reverts as other ip othere edit seen here This shows the beheaviours is the same and not a new supporting IP editor who just happens to have shown up now.
If you would like more evidence just let me know. Sport and politics (talk) 20:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Again, these seem to me to be part of a general content dispute, with reverts and everything. Things tend to look different once you know that it's the same user. Unregistered editors often change IP addresses, depending on where in the library they sit, or the nature of their ISP, or whether they commute (or all three). I will concede that the use of the word vandal is incorrect. I would suggest getting wider input into the centralised discussion. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How much clearer can i spell this out The user is beheaving exactly the same way as another editor who they claim not to be. And therefor trying to claim that there are two editors instead of one. they are doing what if effectively IP sock puppetry. I have provided clear evidence that they are the sam person in terms of their identical beheaviour. This user will continue to act with disdain if this is not taken seriously. As if a registered user did this with two accounts they would be banned for sock puppetry. That is waht is happening here and the IP editor is getting away with it it is not acceptable sock-puppetry where ever it occurs and it is happening here by moving IP addresses. Sport and politics (talk) 21:18, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds very much like Sheffno1gunner. The editing interests check out, as do the IP ranges, and the habit of using different IPs to try and seem like multiple people. I've increased the rangeblock on the University of Manchester IPs and semi-protected a bunch of the articles. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sheffno1gunner for the details. Further evidence is probably best submitted there rather than here. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:SzostakJack and User:MDPub13

Followed some problematic contribs from a user elsewhere (inclusive of "needing" Twinkle access after a week, and ended up finding a crossover of activity at Abiogenesis. While going through diffs, I find a reference to a "Dr. Jack Szostak" who does research in abiogenesis. Finding this an odd coincidence, I go to SzostakJack's userpage, where he denies being or being related to the doctor of the almost same name (apparently reversing it means he's a totally different guy), and he's dumped the Abiogenesis article onto his userpage, which we do not allow. I also noted some interesting stuff on his talk page, not limited to: a weak request for name change, and what looks like off-wiki canvassing. Someone with the power to enforce the rules here needs to explain to this user what our rules are.

As for MDPub13, he is involved in the same pages, seems to be willing to actively edit-war to get what he wants, and seems to be pretty familiar with SzostakJack already. MSJapan (talk) 22:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What does "needing" twinkle access after a week have to do with anything. What is twinkle why are you citing it as evidence and what make you think that this "needing" is going to be twinkled. You should know that my organization will stop at nothing to accurately represent scientific findings. We are establishing an international collaborative, a web, if you will and it can exist without me. However, I would prefer to stay. Thank you kindly. SzostakJack (talk) 05:11, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know of this incident very well, but something is very fishy about SzostakJack. The user page isn't about him, it's about some science stuff. This seems to be a violation of Wikipedia policy, but no criterion in WP:CSD seems to match it, so I don't want to tag it when I should not be. Help, anyone? WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 00:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is also an ongoing sockpuppet investigation here. Arc de Ciel (talk) 03:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm. I think they are the same person, but CheckUser has the answer to that. I haven't gotten to thoroughly look at the SPI closely, let me see what the dealio is. Both of the accounts tried to call each other meatpuppets, but that basically gave away that they are meatpuppets, as MDPub13 even said, " These accounts do what I tell them to do. That is a dead giveaway. Best regards. WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 16:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CHILDPROTECT needs more eyes

user:Jehochman has at least twice edited this policy to include his currently proposed addition to the policy. He has done this at the same time as proposing the addition on talk, and despite early comments clearly showing no consensus about them (two users commenting, 1 supporting and 1 (me) opposing). Even after being explicitly told to gain consensus before editing the policy he did so again. I have reverted twice and will not do so again (I do not want to edit war), but the page needs more eyes watching it and the discussion on the talk page needs more input before there can be consensus for or against the addition. Thryduulf (talk) 23:16, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have full-protected the policy page in question (for 3 hours). Thryduulf, despite your protestation, you already DID edit war on the policy page, and that is not vaguely OK. The others involved also edit warred, rather than continuing discussion on the talk page and firming up the consensus there.
This type of behavior on policies is not vaguely OK. All sides are cautioned not to repeat it.
I believe Thryduulf is also misreading an evolving talk page consensus but, in the interests of separating resolving the behavioral question (edit war on policy) from content question (what the policy should say, consensus on the talk page there) I leave that to others to review and determine. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I do not believe that I edit warred, but I am not going to argue about that. Four reverts from Jeochman is not at all appropriate though. There has been additional input into the discussionon the talk page since I reverted, but what I see is emerging consensus for the principle but not for the specific words. Thryduulf (talk) 23:25, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's worthwhile to repeat that 3RR is not an entitlement and EW is not exactly 4+RR; policy pages are particularly much more sensitive, and a high rate of change back and forth on one crosses the line much faster.
I agree that the change happened in advance of a fully solidified consensus, but BRD should have been followed. BRD is not BRRD or BRRRRRRD ... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:33, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In practice, the editing of these sorts of policy pages proceeds by someone editing in texts that give Admins new rights to ban/block people and limit the possibilities of review and overturning of such bans or blocks. It will then be claimed that such a text does have consensus and reflect current practice, therefore a big consensus is needed to revert back to the old version. Count Iblis (talk) 23:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Failure of all sides to respect BRD and use talk pages - trying to fight it out on the policy itself rather than gain consensus - is neither particularly unusual nor acceptable. Nothing here raised to the level of being worth sanctioning or threatening sanctions, but it isn't the right thing to do. A short little !vote on the proposed change establishes a consensus or NoConsensus within a reasonable time period. It's not wrong to try a bold proposal in advance of such consensus building, but it is wrong to insist on it in the face of objections and prior to consensus. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 04:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the heads up. I've popped over there to support the change. I do hope something can be done now rather than procrastinated. Long overdue and massively needed. Thanks again. Begoon talk 23:50, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So, an idea for these sorts of things (brought on by the confluence of minor copyediting to an article at the same time as reading a hitherto-unread policy): why not require citations (internal citations) on policy pages?

Bear with me here. Definition of specific infractions and resulting actions come about in three ways:

  1. Informal community approval (WP:SILENCE, basically)
  2. Formal endorsement (Precedent set by discussion on, in order of perceived authority: user talks, article talks, RFCs or other 'officially organized' discussion formats, top-level noticeboards such as AN/AN/I, Arbcom)
  3. WMF directive

If policy pages (and rewrites thereof) required citations to the canonical discussions/directives on a given point, addition or subtraction of a given set of material is easily handled. Yes, granted, we might invite meta-arguments on 'is this the current truth or not?' but I think the benefits would outweigh this. One can always link to diffs of closing summaries and such, which would be a good thing. Plus, the people who tend to be involved in policy page edits are the same people who have been around a while, and thus have become used to seeing and evaluating citations, as well as adding them, so no real behavioural change would be needed. (Citing WMF directive should also be as simple as linking a diff, or to a relevant press release or WMF posting; RS issues aren't applicable).

Maybe this should be an RfC or something, I dunno, but the thought occurred and it might help out a lot in clarifying what can be at times a distinct difference between policy-as-stated and policy-as-enforced. The Potato Hose 00:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Silence is never to be used as consent with policy drafting or be taken as informal approval as the essay points out and so does WP:SMN, neither are policy and informal community approval means absolutely nothing at this point because it doesn't exist and ideally, anything surrounding policies and guidelines should go through a talk page. Any challenge to it can come at any time and that is a good thing. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:03, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think you have completely misunderstood me. Not everything on every policy page has been discussed to death; some stuff has been added, not contested, and thus stood. I.e., WP:SILENCE/lack of opposition has encoded things into policy. Nor am I suggesting that policy shouldn't be challenged, not by a long shot! What I'm suggesting is that had Jehochman's original addition to the page (and I am commenting specifically on mechanics here, I am agnostic on the addition in question) looked more like:
Users uploading or including sexually explicit images or videos in Wikipedia must present evidence that the subjects are adults.[2] "Sexually explicit" means any depiction or simulation of sexual activity or lasciviousness involving one or more persons. Mere nudity, such as artistic photography, or photos of medical conditions or anatomy, are not considered to be sexually explicit for the purpose of this policy.[3] Because Wikipedia is not censored, sexually explicit material may be included where relevant,[4] subject to age verification.
  1. ^ http://louisville.edu/a-s/history/turks/WesternQuestion.pdf
  2. ^ See WMF policy Foo (link)
  3. ^ See talk page discussion summarized at (link)
  4. ^ See ARBCOM decision (link)
...then there would have been a nice easy way for people to agree (WP:SILENCE), as they could easily check exactly where the assertions came from. It would also streamline the disagreement process, as people could point to a given statement/source and say "Well that was seven years ago, and isn't applicable now because of the more recent decision by Arbcom here (link)."
(Please also note that I am aware there are other procedural issues swirling around this, which again, I am deliberately not commenting on as I DGAF in this context.)
Extrapolating this idea out to all policy pages would mean discussions could proceed in a more orderly and streamlined fashion, and indeed could spur discussion/updating when people notice that a given policy is linked to a given AN/I decision from eight years ago (hypothetical example). The Potato Hose 05:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:86.129.86.242

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Keeps editing Lee Westwick into the List_of_British_actors_and_actresses and List_of_The_Bill_cast_members. Suspect user is actually Westwick and he has already had one article he wrote about himself deleted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lee_Westwick Aleczandah (talk) 00:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First, you should have notified the IP of this discussion; I've done so for you. Second, this post is a bit much, don't you think?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that you meant this post... :) --Guy Macon (talk) 08:02, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, pretty much. Still getting my head around Wikipedia edits, sorry! Still vandalism though Aleczandah (talk) 10:09, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The IP has been blocked for a week by Shirt 58. In related news, I've gone through the edit history of Lee Westwick and found it contains three SPAs with a potential for socking/meatpuppetry. It might be a bit late for a checkuser but we should watch out for similar edits by new accounts. Also, when Aleczandah nominated that page for deletion he did not notify the author LadyBeewest (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). So, for the record, the next time you nominate a page for deletion by speedy, prod or Afd, please use at least the templated messages provided in the instructions to notify the author. De728631 (talk) 15:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Qworty

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

As the result of scrutiny by Wikipedia editors following his participation in the Filipacchi fiasco, the editor's real-life identity has been revealed in the media and acknowledged on-wiki.[90]. Related discussion on and off wiki is going on with some fervor; a highly credible case involving abuse of multiple accounts has been presented. Qworty's repeated use of Wikipedia discussions as platforms for rather venomous personal attacks on article subjects has been noted for at least five years [91], yet he somehow escaped any serious sanctions. In January of this year, Qworty accused a BLP subject of "stalking" and expressly alleging criminal behavior. Jimbo Wales himself intervened, telling Qworty "Do not do this again or I will see to it that you are swiftly and permanently banned from editing Wikipedia.[92] Nevertheless, Qworty repeated this behavior during the Filipacchi dispute, alleging that the author (and Wikipedia critic) "had sent thugs after certain Wikipedia editors" [93] and repeatedly alleging death threats against themself and their child, distressing both Qworty and their "husband". [94] [95]. Qworty has now been identified as male, without, it seems, a spouse (of any gender) or children. The threats and other allegations of criminal conduct, to say nothing of any association with Filipacchi, remain entirely unsubstantiated and, given the extensive misbehavior associated with the individual editing as Qworty (and other named and IP accounts), may safely be inferred to be false, and made without good faith. It is time to avoid further drama and impose the penalty recommended by Jimbo Wales for continuing this gross misconduct, which reflects so badly on the project and its legitimate editors: an indefinite block and site ban. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:19, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I was looking for on-wiki reasons to ban Qworty, but you beat me to it. I was considering putting together an SPI case to identify all the past Qworty socks on one page, which I thought might be a step in the proper direction, but I like your swifter thrust to the heart of the matter. Binksternet (talk) 16:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree 100%. Qworty's outbursts a few weeks ago were unacceptable, and his entire history as described in the Salon piece is outlandish. This must end now. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification please. You say that As the result of scrutiny by Wikipedia editors could you indicate who these were? John lilburne (talk) 18:20, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indefinite site ban. This is severe abuse, and not for the first time. Massive breaches of trust. Basalisk inspect damageberate 16:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey, I saw that feller on the news last night. He's nearly famous. Basket Feudalist 16:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indefinite site ban. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indefinite ban on the grounds that the user has self-declared that he is not here to build an encyclopedia. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 17:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I have indefinitely blocked the editor in question; admins with an issue with this can freely revert it. Ironholds (talk) 17:45, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good block/ support site ban for apparently many longterm abuses. LadyofShalott 17:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good block/support site ban - we also need to review all 13k edits to purge the maligning effect this editor has wrought upon our project. I am willing to help if someone coordinates such an effort. My76Strat (talk) 18:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • support site ban, blocks are too little for a editor able to repeatedly and shamelessly game the system. Cavarrone (talk) 18:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This once again shows the bizarreness of Wikipedia's "outing" policy. If Qworty hadn't "come clean" about his real identity on-wiki, then merely linking to the Salon article naming names would be a blockable offense (User:Cla68 remains blocked for similar activity), which would squelch all discussion of the conflicts of interest involved. It's only after he outed himself that anybody could mention the subject here, and this resulted in him soon getting indef-blocked, showing that coming clean about your real identity is a losing move; if you maintain even paper-thin secrecy about it, you can stay scot-free on-wiki while anybody who goes against you gets banned instead. *Dan T.* (talk) 18:19, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. For those of you who don't read Wikipediocracy for whatever reason, I'll quote my own words from there: "This is a really ugly episode whether or not it gets play in the mainstream media. It is yet another example of why Wikipedia's Cult of Anonymity is inherently unsavory and intellectually indefensible, and the way that its continuation undermines the cause of free, accurate, verifiable encyclopedic information..." Carrite (talk) 18:59, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At the risk of digressing, Cla68 did a lot more than "merely linking". He posted an outing link in a website that is famous for doing outings, of an editor he was involved with, out of the blue, and he posted the link again in his unblock request, with even more information. Then he refused to give assurance that he wouldn't "out" anyone else (see the request made to him by NewYorkBrad[96]). --Enric Naval (talk) 08:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment "As the result of scrutiny by Wikipedia Wikipediocracy editors" FTFY. The source specifically says so, you see.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 18:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, perhaps we should require people to formally identify themselves to the Foundation before being allowed to edit. And perhaps the Foundation could request their professional credentials, if any, so editors could be prevented from editing subjects they have no expertise in. --108.38.191.162 (talk) 20:32, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Credentials are not necessary here, and there is no need for editors to identify themselves on most articles. But anyone adding content to a BLP should certainly be firmly identified as a real person. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose block and site-ban This is purely a punitive measure as Brad already left a comment saying Qworty would be on an indefinite BLP restriction if he continues editing, and Qworty has indicated that he would not.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 18:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good block/Support site ban User is clearly not here to build an encyclopedia, and their blatant intent to continue their disruption and abuse tells me that they are not planning to change their ways anytime soon, if ever. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 18:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No sense dragging this out. Would an admin please place the site ban notice on User_talk:Qworty per WP:CBAN? No sense in waiting the usual 24 for many additional editors to vote. (Blanking and tagging the user and talk pages optional per closer's discretion, personally I think it unnecessary and unseemly.) NE Ent 18:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarify - Please make it perfectly clear that it is Robert Clark Young that is banned, and any other account discovered to be Young should be immediately blocked as well. Ego White Tray (talk) 18:45, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Er. Why? It is the occupier of the account 'Qworty' who is blocked. That's the only important thing here. Ironholds (talk) 19:19, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good block/Support site-ban Qworty has already proven that he is not here to collaborate. Contrary to what TDA says above, a site-ban will prevent Qworty from pulling this kind of shit ever again. Ishdarian 18:50, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I really have to disagree. The severe breach of trust with the community doesn't lead me to believe he has the integrity to abide by the BLP restriction. You may see it as a draconian measure, but it's for the protection of the 'pedia. Ishdarian 18:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are you saying you refuse to believe that he will adhere to the BLP restriction yet believe he will somehow adhere to a site-ban despite a history of using multiple accounts?--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, that's not what I'm saying. It's the difference between wasting everyone's time reporting an abusive user and reverting them on sight. Thank you, but I'm done responding here. I've voiced my opinion. Ishdarian 19:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good block and Support Site Ban- Support an ArbCom case which will bring scrutiny to the entire editing history of Qworty. There is undoubtedly damage that needs to be fixed and the scrutiny associated with an ArbCom case would help this effort. Carrite (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not their job. This is not an issue the community is unable to resolve; suggest posting a request on WP:AN and / or WP:BLP to solicit editors to review Qworty's edits for possible BLP violations. NE Ent 19:01, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, adding my support of site ban above, which would be the predictable result of an ArbCom case. Carrite (talk) 19:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indefinite site ban. Enough is enough, we cannot have this abuse any longer. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:06, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse Ironholds block of Qworty. There does need to be a look at what edits Qworty has made, identification of any sockpuppets, meatpuppetry and indeed any tag teaming that has gone on too, before everything is tagged and fades from the memories of all concerned. Nick (talk) 19:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree the Salon article appears to be RS and describes extensive WP:Battle behavior, so block/ban appears warranted -- to the extent there needs to be further investigation/appeal, then something to the arbitration committee maybe warranted. Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Shouldn't a ban discussion like this be at AN? Shadowjams (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:CBAN: "Community sanctions may be discussed on the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard (preferred) or on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents."alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 20:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
AN might have been a preferable venue, but I don't see much value to moving the discussion now. However, someone might post a cross-reference on AN to the discussion here, to cover the unlikely event that there are people who watchlist AN but not ANI.Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine. I'm not trying to be a stickler for procedure; I'm feeling self-conscious since I've done this twice this week already... anyway, carry on. Shadowjams (talk) 20:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Indefinite ban. I've had positive interactions with Qworty but this is a bit too much. It only takes one trusted editor gone bad to make us all look like vindictive morons. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 20:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose siteban. These are serious allegations, and Qworty's admitted that they're true, but why can't he edit other things instead? I'd say the best course of action is a ban from BLP editing with a guaranteed indef block for the first ban violation, but we should unblock him at the same time as we impose the BLP ban and the indef guarantee. Nyttend (talk) 21:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I have also had positive interactions with Qworty but this abuse moves from basic COI to a much more severe charge of using wikipedia for individual blatant professional gain. I disagree that a BLP ban is sufficient. This is a case of long term abuse from an editor who obviously knew what they were doing. I would suggest that an indef is excessive though. I believe in the principle that anyone can become a good editor in spite of past history, and many of Qworty's edits did support the project. So perhaps giving them another chance after... an extensive block followed by BLP sanctions until they can convince AN that they should be lifted. I also agree that we should probably request a checkuser to look for socks. my 2 cents. Cheers! Coffeepusher (talk) 21:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support complete ban. Conduct this egregious demands a complete ban. Wikipedia should have no place for this editor on any page. Kablammo (talk) 21:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban. Should have been done a long time ago. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment Isn't there a ready-made 'banned' template that can be applied to User:Qworty? I'd say that's a violation of WP:UPNO. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 22:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • What's the point? Even now, Robert Clark Young is largely the work of the soon-to-be-banned editor, with a big ol' tag at the top acknowledging that fact. What's the point in getting rid of the COI editor if we're going to keep the COI edits? Multiple people, myself included, have tried to restart the article from scratch with a short, neutral stub, but the folks that own the article have decided they'd rather have the COI version, or perhaps a slightly watered down variation of it. Which matters more to the readers of this site: that a certain misbehaving editor can edit, or that a certain article is neutral, accurate and free of bias? It doesn't matter one whit whether Qworty is banned if we're all willing to let the COI edits he made stand. 28bytes (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Although I agree that his article is ridiculously puffed up, I'm concerned that you seem to think that the main problem here is that he edited his own article. It isn't. That matters very very little compared to the attacks he made on other people. Those attacks and trying to limit them are and should be "the point". 87.254.72.244 (talk) 22:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Qworty the sockpuppet... For the record, I started a list at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Qworty. I wonder why Qworty was not blocked earlier, after being ID'ed by checkuser as a sockpuppet? Very strange. By the way, I think the block is a good one, and that the person behind Qworty should be site-banned. Binksternet (talk) 22:37, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support block and site ban - We have no need of editors who use their edits to promote themselves and slag off their opponents. Such a person cannot be trusted even to edit unrelated articles - what happens when they get pissed-off at their bank, or cell phone provider, or the supermarket chain they shop at? With their track record, how are we to believe that they won't take out their ire with revenge edits? We can't, nor can we know what Young will take a disliking to, or where his biased editing will take him. A site ban is the only reasonable solution to protect the project from a proven danger. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I was going to oppose per TDA, but in light if the sockpuppettry highlighted by Bink, this is too much. little green rosetta(talk)
    central scrutinizer
    00:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site-ban - he isn't here for to better the encyclopedia, he has been pushing his own agenda through sockpuppets for years which has proven to be detrimental.LM2000 (talk) 01:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Frankly, we have no alternative than to block & site-ban for such behaviour. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - After a thorough review of his actions, I believe a block and ban is warranted. 173.58.54.157 (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentatively oppose as punitive. I really don't wanna see someone wiki-lynched out of mere spite, no matter how well-placed that spite may be. I don't know much about Qworty's editing history here (I've seen his name tons of times, but never formed anything of an opinion), so if someone can present evidence of abuse in areas other than biographies, I'd consider supporting. But the existing BLPBAN, perhaps along with a formal one-account limitation, enforced by periodic CheckUsers, seems sufficient at the moment.PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 03:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. That's more deception than I can stomach. I even defended the editor in the Filipacchi discussion since the edits to that article I looked at were congruent with policy. That there was another layer to it, and a motivation displayed abundantly by some of the socks fished up in the SPI, I did not see or did not want to see. The butchering of Barry Hannah is the icing on the cake; I wish I had seen that earlier. Drmies (talk) 03:26, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Indefinite ban for sockpuppettry Mlpearc (powwow) 03:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indef block and community ban; my thanks to those who have brought this character to justice. Long overdue removal of a stain on the encyclopedia. Clearly a protective move and not merely punitive. Also thank Drmies, as it takes a big person to admit a big error. Jusdafax 04:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't know about big--overweight certainly. I'm not sure about "error" either (in, like, some technical or legal sense), but I feel pretty bad about not having looked at Qworty's rants and forming my judgment, at least on the first day or two, only on their edits to that and related articles. Keep in mind also that there was apparent socking going on one the other side, of the apparently promotional kind; Qworty's tone on the talk pages of the affected articles struck me as just irritated with that. Still, I think I was wrong, yes, in supporting Qworty as long as I did, and it's making me sleep very badly. I haven't felt this shitty about a wiki thing since, say, the Pastor Theo affair, and I'm going to make sure that I look around more next time. I don't think that such deceptions can be prevented, really, but in this case I could have figured something out earlier. Again, I wish I had seen earlier what he did to Barry Hannah. And again, sjeesh, what childishness. Drmies (talk) 12:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Given the last warning from Jimbo and the latest stunt, plenty to warrant on the most recent drama. Though I do not like the sockpuppetry, it is old, the current edits are also problematic. This diff is a little extreme, going so far as to remove persondata and data that is okay per WP:ABOUTSELF. [97] Misleading edit summaries to axe large amounts of content. [98] Axing without real reason, [99] Basically axing entire pages for 'unsourced' content, including summaries and characters and categories. [100] [101] [102] A common thread? Works of writers and writers themselves. Enough is enough on many accounts, the damage to Wikipedia and its credibility and image has been massive. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ban (Personal attack removed) EEng (talk) 04:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No need to engage in Two Minutes Hate... Please think about redacting the excesses... Carrite (talk) 06:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since it appears EEng has no intent to do this, I've removed it myself as a fairly clear NPA violation, not to mention a BLP one since it's talking not just about Qworty the Wikipedian, but Bob Young the notable living person. I should note that I consider this wholly separate from my tentative !vote in opposition: I won't lose any sleep if Qworty gets banned for this; I will, however, if comments like this are allowed to stand.PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 06:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support indefinite site ban. A very devious individual who has jeopardized the reputation of Wikipedia in the eyes of the public. Totally unacceptable. -- Brangifer (talk) 05:23, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- Several people have written that Robert Clark Young "understood what he was doing". Hmm. I don't know about that. I read the Salon article before I read this thread. It notes that Young/Qworty asserted that all his edits complied with wikipedia policy. It notes the years of hypocrisy, where Young/Qworty claimed he was fighting conflicts of interest, while actually serving as the poster-child of a conflicted editor. This suggests to me he may not have understood what he was doing was wrong. We block vandals who know what they are doing, and we sometimes have to block individuals over issues of competence. I suspect that Young/Qworty, while obviously intelligent, is not competent to edit the wikipedia -- demonstrated by the claim that they don't believe they have done anything wrong. Geo Swan (talk) 08:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Admin closure needed. I've just reverted a good faith NAC -- while consensus is overwhelming here WP:CBAN requires an admin close. Per the "any reasonable admin" gestalt of involved I think it'd be fine if someone who's already commented completed the task. NE Ent 11:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment - This needs to be reopened, debate continued, and closed properly (i.e. overwhelming consensus for site ban). Otherwise, this is headed for ArbCom. I have never seen a contradictory, "edit conflicted" second close before, and I do not believe that the "edit conflicted" close reflects the consensus here. Carrite (talk) 16:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because of the possibility that journalists may reference this conversation, let me expand on the above. Qworty was site banned by the Wikipedia community. No administrator or group of administrators decided to ban him. An administrator has to do the nuts and bolts work of actually implementing the ban, but he or she has to do what the community decided (except in weird theoretical cases where the community decides to violate one of our core principles). --Guy Macon (talk) 18:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Vinson wese

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Vinson wese has repeatedly added material to Emmelie de Forest that violates both WP:undue and WP:BLP. he has been warned repeatedly by myself and other users, inluding bishonen and babbaq. also has posted a lvl-4im for section blanking on my user page. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 17:19, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:BabbaQ and co. have been involved in a section blanking effort to remove (very well) sourced content on the Danish Wikipedia and here. Their edits have been reverted by numerous editors over at the Danish Wikipedia as well, most recently today. The story of royal ancestry has received significant media attention in major media like DR, and we don't remove it because one editor doesnt like it. Also note that they are edit warring against a version here at the English Wikipedia that was mostly written by User:DrKiernan and has been stable for weeks or months. Vinson wese (talk) 17:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User has been warned several times now. I will not respond any further to this user as he has no interest in having a discussion and has never had. Emmelies article should not be trashing her and her dead fathers reputation with tabloid gossip, edits looked like a small article in The Sun newspaper. Winson has been told several times to stop. Latest one today by admin Bishonen who Winson labelled "rv troll" in his edit summary.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is re disruptive editing on a BLP, which is currently also an unfolding event. I warned VW strongly today on their page (removed, like a previous warning in April) and have now blocked them for one week. Bishonentalk 17:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC).[reply]
Matter solved. Good decision Bishonen.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Addendum: this user has shown themselves aggressively impervious to advice since I first encountered them in early April. Checking out the history of his talkpage now, I note the edit summary reasons he gives for wiping my warnings and BabbaQ's ANI alert ("rv troll" "rm/trolling/vandalism"); just another illustration of his indomitable WP:BATTLE demeanour. I'm rather tempted to up the block to indef per WP:NOTHERE, but I'm probably a little too annoyed to be the right admin for it. In case somebody else wants to, I've no objection. Bishonen talk 17:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC).[reply]
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Clearing one's own talk page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am writing to receive confirmation that users, with few exceptions, are fully permitted to remove content from their own talk pages, per WP:OWNTALK and WP:REMOVED ("Removal of comments, notices, and warnings"). The two pages are very clear. They say, "Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages...The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. This specifically includes both registered and unregistered users" and "Policy does not prohibit users, whether registered or unregistered users, from removing comments from their own talk pages...The removal of material from a user page is normally taken to mean that the user has read and is aware of its contents. There is no need to keep them on display and usually users should not be forced to do so."

The reason I am bringing this issue here is because an admin, Bwilkins, is claiming that that I am wrong. Because he's an admin, I feel it's vitally important that he accept this right that editors have and not give them the wrong information, especially when sanctions may be involved.

This matter started when I noticed that an admin, Ymblanter, told a blocked user, 68.50.128.9, that he was not allowed to remove warnings he received prior to getting blocked.[104]. When I saw that, I posted a comment to Ymblanter in this thread on the blocked user's talk page that he was incorrect; that a user is allowed to remove warnings received prior to a block. I included the links to WP:OWNTALK and WP:REMOVED and pointed out the primary exceptions were declined unblock requests regarding a currently active block, confirmed sockpuppetry related notices, any other notice regarding an active sanction, Miscellany for deletion tags (while the discussion is in progress) and Speedy deletion tags and requests for uninvolved administrator help). As you'll see in the thread, Ymblanter wrote back quickly and acknowledged that I was right.

It was after that when I noticed that Bwilkins also told the blocked editor about not being allowed to remove comments from his talk page. As you'll see in Bwilkins' decline, he said, "I see that you improperly removed comments by the blocki0gn admin from this page, thus attempting to hide evidence and valid commentary required by patrolling admins."[105] When I wrote to Bwilkins on his talk page to let him know IP 68 was allowed to remove that, he response was, "It's been held by the community that an editor may not remove comments related to the block - the blocking admin has a responsibility to be accountable, and explain their block as well. As such, the IP cannot remove the comments related to the block." I asked him to please provide evidence that "It's been held by the community" (I'm not even sure what "held by the community" means) that editors' can't remove items (other than those on the exceptions list) but he never replied. He had posted something on IP 68's talk page also and I replied there too asking for evidence, but he didn't reply to that either. And 90% of what he had posted on IP 68's talk page had nothing to do with the issue of editors being able to clear their own talk pages.[106] I also included a comment on IP 68's talk page that another admin, Orangemike had said what I'm saying.[107]. I've also seen many other editors, including admins, make comments about how editors may clear their own talk pages, except for the items referenced in WP:OWNTALK and WP:REMOVED. I've even seen admins warn editors who reverted other editors who cleared their own talk page content. Most of the time, the other editors apologize and say they just weren't aware that editors could clear their own talk pages, but I've never seen anyone deny that WP:OWNTALK and WP:REMOVED are valid.

IP 68 is currently blocked, but he is still allowed to remove everything on his talk page except the declined block requests for the current block. If there was a block notice for the current block, he couldn't remove that either. But I don't see one. He is allowed to remove all the old declined block requests; the ones for the previous/expired block.

I'll close by saying I have idea who IP 68 is and have never crossed paths with him. I just happened to end up on his talk page after seeing something on the talk page of an admin I had been communicating with. From the looks of IP 68's talk page, he has a pretty ugly history for being on such a short time lol, so my interest is certainly not in defending him, but rather to defend this important right for all editors in general. I would appreciate feedback, and if there is consensus for my position, I would ask that Bwilkins please acknowledge that he will not tell any more editors that they are not allowed to clear items on their own talk pages unless it's on the exceptions list. And I hope that if he sees any other editors giving the wrong information, he will correct them. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 03:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removed information should be available in the page history, and no admin should unblock without first attempting to confer with the blocking admin directly. Those two facts mean there's no reason why keeping stuff on a blocked user's user page is worth spending time fighting over. Let it be removed, because it doesn't help anyone do their job any better, but it does waste time and make lots of people unnecessarily upset. --Jayron32 04:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course you can remove stuff from your own page. That said, this doesn't appear to be the case. If this is an IP editor (as it appears to be), then it isn't really their page. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • If it's a dynamic IP address, and the user has changed, there's no reason to keep messages intended for someone else. If it is the same user using the same IP address for a long period of time, there's no reason to keep messages around that have already been read. No user page "belongs" to anyone other than Wikipedia, and that includes users with usernames and users without. There's no inherent reason why they should be treated differently. --Jayron32 04:17, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Niteshift, that's incorrect. Per WP:REMOVED, "Policy does not prohibit users, whether registered or unregistered users, from removing comments from their own talk pages". Per WP:OWNTALK, "This specifically includes both registered and unregistered users." IP editors are not second-class citizens in this regard. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 05:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I am a bit concerned by this comment. It looks to me (unless I am getting the policy wrong, which is always a possibility) like an administrator who is using a blocking criteria that is a direct contradiction to WP:BLANKING. I say "it looks to me" because what I think I am seeing is actually fairly unlikely. What am I missing here? --Guy Macon (talk) 07:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • I hesitate to speak for BWilkins who is more than capable of speaking for himself, but I imagine he is interpeting the language in policy broadly so that "notice" doesn't just mean the initial block notice but any notice (or comment) from an admin about the block or about the reason for declining the block. With that said, I'm going to close this discussion as I believe we are into diminishing returns here.--Bbb23 (talk) 07:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Arthur Rubin

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Can someone tell User:Arthur Rubin to stop rolling back all of my edits without discussion. I have tried to post messages to the talk pages of the articles in question, and to his/her talk page, with no response. I don't plan to edit any more number articles until this is resolved, to avoid edit warring. Thank you! 174.56.57.138 (talk) 04:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You changed the format, contrary to the specified format at Wikipedia:WikiProject Number. I suggested you post there before making other changes. — Arthur Rubin(talk) 04:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Contrary to what? That page doesn't exist and what does that have to do with Linden, New South Wales? 174.56.57.138 (talk) 05:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are talking about Wikipedia:WikiProject Numbers, which makes no mention of the infobox, so what is your point? And again, why are you reverting my edits on Linden, New South Wales? Seems like an abuse of rollback, which should be revoked for your account until your knee stops jerking. 174.56.57.138 (talk) 05:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Arthur is an administrator so his rights can't be removed lightly. IP, please stop calling Arthur a vandal. This does not explain his queer behavior on Linden, New South Wales or his apparently counterproductive edits removing information from number articles. Shii(tock) 05:23, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I changed "Number" to "Numbers"; it must have gotten lost as part of an edit conflict.
  2. Before your edits, "prime = nth" was never in any of the infoboxes. "prime = yes" was. You should have verified consensus at the appropriate project page, at least once I removed your edits.
  3. You have given no reason to remove the template from Linden. I assumed it was a change to your preferred format or data, again without consensus. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 06:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Arthur, your approach to the rollback tool is unacceptable. Do you not see the words "{{#coordinates:}}: cannot have more than one primary tag per page" at the bottom of the Linden page? Shii (tock) 07:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • @174.56.57.138: As you know how to fix Linden, New South Wales, and you know how to file a report at ANI, you should know that an edit summary of "revert vandal" is not helpful when undoing a revert. Instead, repeat your first edit summary, with a bit more detail to explain that you are not making arbitrary changes to articles. If that doesn't work, post a polite message at the user's talk—you can add a bit of snark if you like, but templated "I undid ... because it did not appear constructive" has no chance of being helpful. Yes, Arthur Rubin should have noticed the red text, and should have taken ten minutes to work out what was going on, but the reality is that a lot of nonsense edits are made, and perfection in reverting them is unattainable. Johnuniq (talk) 08:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've "fixed" it by removing the template. Perhaps now we can move on?--Bbb23 (talk) 08:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before we get too distracted; while this situation doesn't particularly cover anyone in glory, I think you should both learn and move on from this. IP: in future, try explaining what you were attempting to do if you run into problems like this. Arthur; attempt to exercise a wee bit more good faith. Changing date formats, even if that was what they were attempting to do, does not necessitate the use of the rollback tool. Ironholds (talk) 13:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    As far as I can tell, what the IP was doing on the number articles was changing "prime = " and "divisors = " in the numbers infobox for most prime numbers, claiming he was standardizing formats. He may have been standardizing formats, but changing a majority of the prime numbers is a change of format, not consolidating formats. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He wasn't doing that at Linden, New South Wales, which should have been obvious from the first edit, and its associated edit summary,[108] as well as the fact that when you reverted a red error message appeared. --AussieLegend () 16:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Rubin is 3rr 1, 2, and 3 restoring a version of the article that resulted in a big red error message. This is inappropriate conduct for any editor. NE Ent 15:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your point. Both editors reverted 3x; neither breached WP:3RR. As for the red error message, I understand what the IP was doing. I still don't understand what Arthur was doing or thought he was doing (I can't follow his explanation just above).--Bbb23 (talk) 16:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Nangparbat

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Would someone be so kind as to block this IP [109] as he is Nangparbat and chatting to himself via his mobile on this talk page. And making a great many personal attacks at the same time. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any chance of quick action here please? Or do I have to just spend my day reverting this crap? he goes after them like a nazi after a jewish childs blood Darkness Shines (talk) 13:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion will be, don't revert more! You have already reverted 4 times in Talk:Sarabjit Singh. Wait for sometime until someone handles it here. --Tito Dutta (contact) 13:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Er. Why? The three revert rule does not apply to vandalism. I've blocked the IP in question. Ironholds (talk) 13:54, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, however he is still using the mobile IP to restore the personal attacks. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Greetings, those are not "definitely" vandalism. Undoubtedly those are serious personal attack with rough tone, might be very serious... But, "Harassment and personal attacks" are primarily WP:NOTVAND. In addition, Talk:Sarabjit Singh edits are definitely not vandalism.
They might be sock of someone (which also provides WP:NOT3RR benefits, but, I was trying to understand their arguments! --Tito Dutta (contact) 14:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They have no arguments, they are sockpuppets. Socks get reverted on sight. Nangparbat has stalked and insulted my now for over a year, I know him when I see him. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Raulseixas

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Blocked user Raulseixas still evades the block using his IP sock 201.3.220.69 and continues to remove a content without giving any arguments like there[110] and there[111]. As you can see he is edit warring in these articless since late April, using also his second IP sock 187.63.215.95--Oleola (talk) 21:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Blocked, but please file at WP:SPI next time. That IP has recently been blocked for the same thing, so I blocked them longer this time. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 22:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Copyright concerns regarding User:USchick

Personal attack by User:Alansohn

On the Red Bank, New Jersey article, I removed this material for reasons that I spelled out in the edit summary. A comment about Red Bank increasingly becoming a high-end shopping mecca was not found in the cited source, nor was the statement about "Broad Street", "Garmany" or "Urban Outfitters". The cited source, which supported only the opening of a Tiffany's, was a press release by Tiffany themselves. This left only a mention of a brewery, supported by a book archived at Google Books, and a what appeared to be a personal fan site. I didn't challenge the reliability of the book, but this raised the question of whether one business merited its own section, and more importantly, whether mentioning individual businesses is even relevant or salient, particularly when there is nothing unique about that business (like whether it's the flagship store or the company's headquarters).

Alansohn reverted the edit, saying in his edit summary "rv removal of sourced content, with some editing". This despite the fact that the source did not mention "Broad Street", "Garmany" or "Urban Outfitters", something Alansohn did nothing to address. For this reason, I again reverted the unsourced material, saying, "Revert. A press release by Tiffany for advertising purposes on WebWire is not an RS, and it doesn't mention "Broad Street", "Garmany" or "Urban Outfitters". That leaves one brewery, which doesn't merit a section."

Alansohn found a source for some of the material, and restored it, leaving out the unsourced information, but did so with the edit summary "rv malicious removal of sourced content, all material that was easily sourced; press release from a top firm meets all requirements of WP:RS, though feel free to replace it".

First of all, whether something is "easily sourced" is irrelevant. The material was not sourced, and it is not my responsibility to source material added by other editors. That I already do so at times ([127],[128]), despite my already heavy edit workload, is a courtesy, not a requirement, and I'm tired the obnoxious edit summaries in which Alansohn implies otherwise, a practice in which he has been engaging in for some time now.

Second, my edits were based on sincere, good-faith readings of Wikipedia policy on my part. They were not motivated in any way by "malice", nor has Alansohn even bothered trying to illustrate how he knows my state of mind. Material that was not sourced was removed, in accordance with WP policy, and he himself omitted quite a bit of it in his most recent restoration of some of it, presumably because he saw that it was not found in the source cited in the article, or even in the new one he found (despite it being so "easily" sourced). If that's the case, then how could removing it have been "malicious"? His comment is a direct violation of WP:AGF and WP:NPA, and is unacceptable. Someone needs to politely inform him of this. Nightscream (talk) 00:57, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Seems like Alansohn was well out of line here, but I'd be interested to hear their side of the story as well, to see why they acted like this. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 14:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Verifiability is rather clear: "Attribute all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged to a reliable, published source using an inline citation.... Editors might object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references; consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step..... If instead you think the material is verifiable, try to provide an inline citation yourself before considering whether to remove or tag it." I believe that all editors have an obligation under policy to preserve content and I will take all reasonable actions to preserve it as required (see this edit for a recent example) by seeking out possible sources; Nightscream follows a We had to destroy the village to save it approach in which he usually fails to make any attempt to find sources, blindly removes the content and then WP:BITEs newbies with claims of WP:V / WP:NOR that are unjustified in most occasions. In this case, removal of sourced content was even less justified. No one ever challenged the material in the Red Bank, New Jersey article. The material was reliably sourced (note that per WP:SELFPUB, a press release is a reliable source) in addition to other sources in the section. Even after explaining that the material was all reliably sourced and adding additional sources, Nightscream removed the material a second time without justification. The material was then reinserted with additional sources intended to address any possible objection that Nightscream might ever have. Over and done, one would think. Nightscream seems to be upset that sources were added, as has happened many times before in articles we both edit, where Nightscream removes unsourced content and I reinsert it with sources found with trivial ease. See this edit, where Nightscream removed material regarding a proposed Formula One race that was on the front page of every newspaper in the New York City metro area calling it a "WP:V/WP:NOR" violation, while I reinserted the material with appropriate sources (here) minutes later. This process has happened often and it seems to bother Nightscream deeply. Besides, claims of NPA issues coming from someone who as standard procedure berates, belittles and maliciously attacks other editors on a rather personal basis for rather trivial violations of his expectations ("Really? You can't even capitalize a proper noun? Or format the movie in the same way that all the other films above it and below it are?? Or spell it properly? Seriously?", "No one gives a shit about which studio animated it.", just from the past two days and I could provide hundreds more), I would hope that Nightscream would be better able to recognize legitimate criticism of improper removal of sourced content. And I'm not the only person with these concerns with Nightscream and his editing practices. Take a look at User_talk:Nightscream#Dan Brown, where one of many editors complains on his talk page about unjustifiable removal of what he defines as "Original Research", and see User_talk:Nightscream#Your behavior at Talk:A Scause for Applause, SPI for strong criticism of his attacks on other editors. Alansohn (talk) 12:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oyi, this fight again (not you two, but lots of others have gone down this same road). In my experience it is a good idea to remove only material you can't easily confirm. If we deleted every unsourced sentence on Wikipedia, we'd have about 10% of the content we have right now. The "challenged or likely to be challenged" part is the key. And you did yourself no favor by referring to a reliable source as not being reliable and deleting material on that basis. That said, if you do feel the material has an issue, you are 100% correct to remove it. And Alan needs to AGF on that. But did you seriously have doubts about material in the press release? If not, why did you remove it? I can see why Alan would get frustrated, but I also understand why you are. If you showed a bit more care and Alan had a bit more patience, things would go a lot smoother... Hobit (talk) 17:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hobit's points are well taken and I do want to apologize to Nightscream for my snarky remark; Frustration may have been an acceptable rationalization at the time but it isn't an appropriate justification. Nightscream and I are inevitably going to overlap on editing a significant number of articles and I hope that we can find a more effective way to work together towards the goal of building an encyclopedia rather than trying to score points. I do appreciate that Nightscream will lean far more towards removal of unsourced content added to these and other articles, but I am more than willing to work in a partnership in which Nightscream tags (rather than removes) and discusses legitimately questionable unsourced / poorly sourced content, while I will be happy to reference sourceable content and to remove content that is irredeemably unsourceable based on my attempts to find decent references. I thought that we had been heading in a more productive direction in recent months since our earlier confrontations and I hope that this "incident" can lead to mutual agreement on a path to work together in reasonably harmonious fashion rather than to escalate a needless conflict. Alansohn (talk) 18:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you have a beer some time, or if that's not practical have a chat offline. It is well worth investing time in getting to know and like people you will meet often, especially if you are likely to disagree much of the time. Guy (Help!) 23:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

4 Socks

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Koertefa (talk · contribs) Borsoka (talk · contribs) Fakirbakir (talk · contribs) Norden1990 (talk · contribs)

Disruptive similar patterns on Eastern European articles. Hortobagy (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not Socks I've had enough expierence with these editors to know that they aren't socks. It should be noted that Hortobagy started editing only a couple days ago, with little editing outside of Hungary-related articles, and has already been accused of sockpuppetry by one of the editors in question. I believe a Wp: Boomerang is just around the corner. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 21:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please file suspected socks at WP:SPI and not at ANI. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 22:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've full protected one page you were edit warring on. I think I counted 7 reverts in 24 hours. If I see edit warring elsewhere, regardless if it breaks 3RR or not, you can expect to be blocked. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 22:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmmm, I am not even surprised that user Hortobagy has "forgotten" to notify the editors in question (for example, me). (S)He is indeed quite suspicious, as one of her/his main activities seems to provoke edit wars. (S)He has violated the 3RR today at two articles here: [129][130][131][132][133][134][135] (7 reverts) and here [136][137][138][139][140] (5 reverts), despite warnings [141]. If you take a look at the Talk pages of those articles (and may be this one, which looks like a hoax), you can see that (s)he mostly gives non-constructive, evading answers and does not intend to discuss the issues seriously (for example, by citing reliable sources which would support her/his point of view). I myself find her/his behavior quite disturbing, but I may be too sensitive. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 23:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And what about your reverts? You and your socks or puppets made an edit-war! Hortobagy (talk) 06:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Ignoring the fact that Hortobagy is in the wrong place for this, they've provided absolutely no evidence that any of these users is related. Now, does anyone know of any sockmaster Hortobagy may be related to? Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Abuse at Don Gerard AfD

I'm not sure if this is the right place, since there are elements of sockpuppetry, vandalism and conflict of interest here. In the last hour, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don Gerard has twice been closed [142] (by Dgerard65 (talk · contribs) whose username matches the subject of the article) [143] (by 174.253.17.68 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)). The user alleges that the nomination was made in bad faith (which may well be true) but also claims there's a strong consensus for keeping the article, which is not at all true. In both cases, the attempted closure is the user's only edit of Wikipedia; but vandalism of the Don Gerard article including some from the same IP range [144] has led to that page being semi-protected. (Note, though, that the diff I just linked added content to the article that was negative in tone towards Gerard so the closing of the AfD, even though done in Gerard's name, may be an attempt by somebody else to discredit him.) I have additional concerns about the COI editing of DonGerard65 (talk · contribs) and DonGerard (talk · contribs) who have both edited Don Gerard and nothing or little else. Semi-protection of the AfD page would seem to be reasonable. Dricherby (talk) 21:04, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NotePrevious related discussion--Vigyanitalkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 04:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There were two further disruptive closes by IP editors overnight, which resulted in the AfD page being semi-protected. I'm disappointed that the disruption was able to continue after I raised the issue here but, since the immediate issue has now been dealt with, I think this thread can be closed and I'll take up the sock-puppetry at SPI. Dricherby (talk) 10:34, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Davidcole1992, the return of Whitechristian2013?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Davidcole1992 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

See Wikipedia:Ani#Whitechristian2013_and_the_Turk_Nazi_Party for background.

This new user's first contribution was a repeat of blocked user Whitechristian2013's addition of the putative "Turk nazi party" to the List of white nationalist organizations. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 21:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Likely Sock Pretty much the same information. A CU would be helpful, but I think we can assume this is probably Whitechristian. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 21:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is very possible, but it is better to file this at WP:SPI and let us watch it a day or two, as with any case you think someone is a sockpuppet. It is hard to tell from just one edit, at least with the certainty required to indef block someone or to convince a CU that this warrants running a checkuser process. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 22:02, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although I seriously doubt this is actually him, David Cole is a rather infamous Holocaust denier, just google "David Cole Nazi" and see what pops up just in the first page. Considering the one edit and that username, surely this user qualifies for a username block at least? Heiro 22:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Nah, David Cole doesn't even have his own Wikipedia article. Since there are approximately 2,605 David Coles in the US, let's AGF and assume they're a David Cole that was born in 1992. -- King of ♠ 22:12, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You beat me to it, and said exactly what I was going to say. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 22:13, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Try googling "David Cole 1992" and see what pops up, a series of videos at Auschwitz featuring his Holocaust denial. Heiro 22:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let's wait a bit. What's it going to hurt? Either the user will be productive and we'll be glad that we didn't block him, or he'll clearly show himself to be a sock and we'll have no problem hitting the block button, or he'll cause problems somehow else and this discussion will be irrelevant. Nyttend (talk) 02:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The harmful speech of Norden1990

I want to inform the admins about the uncivil speech and dubious agressive POVs of User:Norden1990 according to WP Conduct policy WP:NPA. What is considered to be a personal attack? 1) Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, national, sexual, or other epithets 2) Using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views. He recently called me in edit summary a "chauvinist user" [145], called my behaviour as "hysteria"[146] and named my edits as being frustrated or chauvinist [147][148]. When I complained about this behavior on another thread [149], Norden1900 was not sorry at all, but on the contrary: he replied that "I reserve the indicatives about you" [150] + he wrote "I'm sorry, but your activity is very similar to Iaaasi's." which is in fact similar to banned User:Stubes99 edits[151]. He also called the insertion of referenced text "vandalism"[152]. User:Norden1990 also used again pejorative provocative term "Felvidek" in English discussion with Slovak editor on my Talk page [153]. This looks like a some form of ongoing harassment. Slovaks associate the term Felvidek with the period of Magyarization and consider it pejorative used anti-Slovak, nationalist and revisionist chauvinists. "Felvidék nem Szlovákia" (Felvidek no Slovakia) from web site associated with Jobbik and Hungarism(Hungarian fascist ideologue) [154]. User:Norden1990 does not see a difference between Kingdom of Hungary and Hungary. Some unconstructive discussion with this user[155][156]. User:Norden1990 also claimed: "nationality was not relevant in the 15th century", unfortunately his demasked POV edits: Jan Jesenius - Slovak person [157][158] he wrote: "Slovaks had not yet existed." which is obviously an attack + also deleted info, Slovak nobleman A. F. Kollár[159] (Note: see edit summary manipulated with latin term Natio Hungarica...[160][161][162][163][164], it was a geographic, institutional and juridico-political category, regardless of language or ethnicity[165][166]) or another nationality was not relevant... edits: [167][168][169][170]... And typical behavior, User:Norden1990 wrote "The mention of Hungarian name only raises the quality of article. No need for paranoid."[171] and here deleted name Oradea [172] or [173][174]. Indeed quality of the article first. Or his contradictory edits [175]>[176]. In the past he also had this kind of unfriendly speech:

  • "then read history books, please. And not only in Slovak."[177] .
  • "No one can argue with a nationalist editor, just like you, Omen1229. You have strong Slovak POV, a typical example of the historical frustration" [178]
  • "It is not possible to discuss with an anti-Hungarian chauvinist, you proved this yourself" [179]
  • "typical product of Romanian chauvinism" [180]
  • "So you can go to hell together with your threatening." [181]

.--Omen1229 (talk) 11:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Its definitely not civil behavior, but I don't think there is much that can be done at this time other then DRN. The edit of Rightful ruler which placed a false banner on the page and was possibly the worst offense here. It would have to go to WP:SPI, but Norden's edit warring has resulted in locking of a page before and this problem has existed for months. While not terribly disruptive, these are minor personal attacks and a warning about personal attacks should have been issued first. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 13:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the very least, Norden1990 needs a NPA warning, and probably a block. There are some absolutely inappropriate statements there, regardless of whatever the OP has said in the discussions. I'm not inclined to look deeper into it, and would leave that to an admin. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We can see the most recent act of Omen's crusade against me. Dear Omen, do you think, the article of Upper Hungary is also a racist and pejorative anti-Slovak article, because it contains the word "Felvidék"? Felvidék is a Hungarian word, which means "Upper Hungary". This phrase marks the area, hich is today's Slovakia and which was part of the Kingdom of Hungary from the 9th century to 1920. "nationality was not relevant in the 15th century" - historical fact, They were nobles (natio Hungarica) and serfs, the modern national consciousness evolved in the early 19th century.

The other issues that you brought up again has already been discussed. I would like to ask the honorable court-martial that compare the edits of Omen and me. I hope you will see the difference. Since Omen is editing, there is only problem with him. Edit wars, POV edits, unsourced and malicious edits, there is need only look at his discussion page. I can only repeat myself about Omen's attitude and behaviour. Bye --Norden1990 (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Omen's conduct doesn't excuse your own. Nationalist debates require cool heads to resolve, and calling other editors names is not conducive to that. If you keep a lid on your own behaviour it makes it that much easier to report the misdeeds of others. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You used again provocative term "Felvidek" in English discussion with Slovak editor (me) on my Talk page [182] or in this discussion [183]. It was not in the article Talk page about "Upper Hungary". Nevertheless, also in the main article is: Any use of the word Felvidék to denote all of modern Slovakia is considered offensive by Slovaks.
I also dont understand your dubious POVs, you wrote [184][185]: "Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit" and then here you edited article with this term + deleted Austrian Empire[186]. It looks like some form of poor provocation.--Omen1229 (talk) 10:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My conscience is clear. I always strived for NPOV in my edits, and it is not my fault that Wikipedia is unable to filtering out nationalist editors, who call into question academic publications and historiographical works. I already created almost 900 articles (true, some of them are stubs), contributed in development of much, I do not think that I'd be in such a troubled editor. In contrast Omen always push his Slovak POV, ignores academic resources, get involved in edit wars, and probably is not a coincidence that he was banned already at few times. I do not see a fault with my behavior. I think (and obviously I only proclaim my own opinion) Omen is really a chavinist editor, and according to my knowledge this word does not mean insult. It looks like that is enough to accuse someone and the person in question is banned forever. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:41, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've searched the archives and I noticed that is not the first time when Norden1990's name appears on this noticeboard. Four months ago the administrator User:Sandstein raised the possibility of a topic ban / other sanction for Norden1990: [187]181.48.15.98 (talk) 14:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Iaaasi (note: a sockpuppet), first login and after that we can discuss, and if you see this incident, I was found not guilty. Omen reported me several times, but that does not mean that they should be taken as a precedent for continue this witch-hunt. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:46, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I always strived for NPOV in my edits... > this is only based on your personal thoughts, but your edits say something quite different.
I already created almost 900 articles... > And what is point? Some users created 10.000 articles..., but absolutely this does not excuse your behavior.
User:Norden1990 post is another absurd false dubious personal views/attacks with no evidence (Omen always push his Slovak POV, ignores academic resources...).
I do not see a fault with my behavior. > Norden1990 continue with personal attacks even on this noticeboard, in the front of the admins: "Omen is really a chavinist editor, and according to my knowledge this word does not mean insult". Accusing the proxy ip 181.48.15.98 of being Iasi is also a personal attack, because your allegation was not officially confirmed, it is only your supposition which must be kept for yourself in the lack of a SPI investigation.
He also bringing here false information (that I was "banned already at few times").
He also involved in edit wars, and not only with me (so in fact Norden1990's another false information...) [188] - here his opponnent was the user Inhakito. The result is that the User:Norden1990 is highly unreliable and only his dubious POVs are acceptable (for him naturally)...--Omen1229 (talk) 10:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do not instruct me on right behaviour. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Omen, you were "topic-banned from all edits relating to Slovak-Hungarian history for a period of 6 months, due to a persistent history of ethnic battleground editing" [189]. You were also sanctioned for "nationalist editing" [190]. It seems that the six months was not enough for you. For the case of Cabello: there were conflicting news after the death of Hugo Chávez. You can see the talk page, a cooperation evolved between the editors and I also took part in the discussion.--Norden1990 (talk) 18:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You wrote here at first false information that I was "banned already at few times". In fact Fut.Perf. banned Samofi and me after few minutes of investigation but in last 17 months he had not find a time to look on "opponents" as he promised. And here is topic-banned the reporting editor'. --Omen1229 (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I note that misconduct related to Eastern Europe is subject to discretionary sanctions per the arbitration decision WP:ARBEE. Without examining this in detail, it appears there is sufficient evidence for recent problematic editing by Norden1990 (notably, personal attacks by commenting about contributors rather than content, and mislabeling content disagreements as vandalism) to warrant a warning about discretionary sanctions, which I am now issuing. If this problematic editing continues, it can be reported to WP:AE for sanctions. Sandstein 09:23, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You can do whatever you want. I suggest you first should look at Omen's activity here. If the style that he uses is permitted, then there's nothing more to talk about. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I fully agree with Norden1990's comment. Fakirbakir (talk) 16:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Said User:Fakirbakir who for example declared this statement: "the modern Slovakia is a neo-fascist state"[191]--Omen1229 (talk) 16:27, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When he wrote that the neo-fascist anti-Hungarian and anti-Roma Slovak National Party (SNS) was member party of the Slovak coalition government. --Norden1990 (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, I'm taking a quick look. Now, Norden1990 has clearly acted in an inappropriate manner all too often, but Omen1229 seems to quite frequently revert Norden1990, sometimes incorrectly, sometimes not. Both users edit-war across a whole range of articles, over some of the most ridiculous things (categories seem to crop up fairly often) - Omen removing a category with a frankly inexplicable reason, based on the article here: [192], and [193] is part of a particularly pointless edit war from both sides being examples of both users reverting each other, pretty much based on the fact that their opponent (so to speak) made the edit. This can either be fixed by an indefinite interaction ban (which is almost certain to fail as both edit in the same area), or a 6 month/year long topic ban on editing any WP:ARBEE-applicable articles, broadly construed for both parties, for frequent, careless and pointless edit warring in those areas, based on nationalistic motives. The latter is by far the more likely to work, and I suggest that's what is applied. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Omen1229 seems to quite frequently revert Norden1990 > here are some my last edits and please look at who started:[194][195][196][197][198][199] and here is additional Norden1990's provocation [200] > he declared: "Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit"[201][202].
edit 105 > the article is about Slovak nobleman A. F. Kollár, also User:FactStraight reverted Norden1990's similar edits[203][204]. As I wrote above about this Slovak nobleman: [205] > see edit summary manipulated with latin term Natio Hungarica...[206][207][208][209][210], it was a geographic, institutional and juridico-political category, regardless of language or ethnicity[211][212]. Natio Hungarica does not mean Hungarian nobility, but it is Nobility in the multiethnic Kingdom of Hungary. Category:French nobility has a category under the name of the article French nobility and there is not article "Hungarian nobility", only Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary. And this edit[213]? It needed new category: Jews in Kingdom of Hungary or something similar, also scientists in the Kingdom of Hungary[214] etc... Being a citizen of the multilingual, multiethnic Kingdom of Hungary is not the same with being an ethnic Hungarian.
edit 106 > I don't understand what is "inexplicable" about my reason ("no source for this info")[215]. The edit summary is clear and it reflects the reality: the information is unreferenced. The same idea is supported by another user (Koertefa) on the article talk page: "I do not see the relevance whether "Mercurius"/"Merkúr" is an original Hungarian name. Even if it was, it would not prove for sure that he was ethnic Hungarian[216]--Omen1229 (talk) 08:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not evaluating whether the reversions are valid or not, but I can see multiple instances of you turning up at articles that you've never edited before, just to undo his changes. And Norden1990 has done the same, but less frequently. You're both edit warring in ARBEE areas, which is justification for a topic ban and/or a block, regardless of if your edit is right or not. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I assure you that his edit is not right. Omen. Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit. That's right, what is your problem? There were separate administrative units, like Transyvania, Croatia or Fiume, but not Upper Hungary (or Felvidék, which lit. means "Upland"). Slovak nobility never existed, as was only one nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary (Natio Hungarica, as you wrote correctly). You are trying to force modern national consciousness into old situation. Cat:Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary is might be misleading, as there are also Hungarian nobles today. But they were born when the kingdom was already abolished. By the way, there is standardization: I couldn't find Cat:Nobility in the Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Poland or Kingdom of Portugal etc. etc. [217]. Aaron Samuel ben Moses Shalom of Kremnitz was a Jew and lived in today's Slovakia (then Hungary) in the 17th century. Mere speculation and anachronism to inserted him into the category of "Slovak Jews". Slovakia established in 1993, centuries later. You usually use POV edits and personal attacks ([218]) where you claimed Hungarian names as "fabricated", however article already contained Hungarian names (correctly, as apperanace only today's name version is illogical and misleading, according to my knowledge, Slovak language was never used in public administration). "however this is only a biography article of Štúr" [219] - illogical and poor argument, according to your perception, we should write that "Ho Chi Minh City was capital of South Vietnam in 1945". Absurd. These towns (Modor) were clearly part of Hungary, these undeniable facts. The term of "Uhorsko" is a fabricated phrase of Slovak historiography, which denies all connection and contiunity between the historical and modern Hungary. Then, Omen, now you just have to tell, who were the "Uhors"? Maybe Hungarians? I am also Hungarian, so please do not interpreted this Slovak POV to the English Wikipedia, as Western publicationd also do not use the term of "Uhorsko" or Uhor Country. [220] 100,000 results? Yeah... Jesenský is a common Slav name, but this family was a Hungarian noble house of Slav origin, as you can see the sources that I proved. "poor nationalistic dubious POV", typical behaviour of Omen. Like this POV pushing [221]. You continously add false information, despite of that User:Koertefa provided several Western sources [222]. when you run out of nationalist arguments, you always try to bring the matter to personal attack, as you did here [223], [224], [225], [226], [227]. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:21, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You usually use POV edits and personal attacks (131) where you claimed Hungarian names as "fabricated" > Well, so let's tell you more details about the etymology. Slovak person Ľudovít Štúr 28 October 1815 - 12 January 1856, Uhrovec - the version "Zayugróc" was fabricated in the 19th century (1863) in the period of Magyarization. You also wrote that "these towns (Modor) were clearly part of Hungary, these undeniable facts." I will stay only in the etymology of the town "Modor". You probably think the Slovak city Modra. So according to Štúr biography 1815 - 1856, the official names valid and used in 1808 - 1863: Modra, Modorinum, Modern, Modor. In the 1863 in the period of Magyarization until 1913 was valid only one name - Modor, other variants have been banned. So according to these etymological facts, your edits here edits look like bad faith.
the term of "Uhorsko" is a fabricated phrase of Slovak historiography > please write me more details with some source, because I do not understand you, I used here only term Kingdom of Hungary, if you want I can use latin term Regnum Hungariae or Kaisertum Osterreiach for Austrian Empire. In fact only you used in this discussion the term Felvidek and other dubious POVs...
I am also Hungarian, so please do not interpreted this Slovak POV to the English Wikipedia, as Western publicationd also do not use the term of "Uhorsko" or Uhor Country. > ? Where do you see these names in this discussion?
Like this POV pushing [134]. You continously add false information, despite of that User:Koertefa provided several Western sources [135] > Sources about what? Please first read the full discussion [228]. Where do you see "Upper Hungary"? You also declared that Upper Hungary has never had a separate territorial unit[229][230]. So according to these evidence, your edits here edits look again like bad faith.
edit Giglovce [231] > User:Norden1990 wrote: "Yes, but formerly known as Giglóc (until 1920)." In fact in the 1863 until 1913 was valid only one name - Giglóc, other variants have been banned. User:Norden1990 used in the article only one variant from this period - Magyarization. There are no members of Magyar ethnicity in the village - 0,00%. According to the 2011 census, the municipality had 153 inhabitants. 148 of inhabitants were Slovaks and 5 others and unspecified. There are also other names, for example: Giglowce, Gyglowce, Gyglowcze etc., but unfortunately this user used only one... User:Norden1990 also declared: "The mention of Hungarian name only raises the quality of article. No need for paranoid."[232] and here deleted name Oradea [233] or [234][235].
Note: I will continue in this edit, but now I'm bored of this unconstructive discussion with highly unreliable editor who have strong dubious POVs.--Omen1229 (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel the above "I'm right, it's the other guy who is POV-pushing" type responses sum up exactly why I believe an ARBEE topic ban is in order. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 19:19, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Topic ban for who? I do not get it. Please compare Norden1990's contributions to Omen1229's editing. Their contributions are as different as chalk and cheese. Norden1990 is an excellent wiki editor. He deserves praise instead of scorn.....Fakirbakir (talk) 15:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Both editors. Regardless of whether their edits are correct or not, both have violated ARBEE by frequently edit-warring over the nationality of a hell of a lot of articles, and that is a simply unacceptable fact. There have been some very solid edits by both editors, but the fact of the matter is that good edits don't justify editors staging all-out war on other editors. Both are constantly accusing each other of being POV-pushers and both abuse each other quite frequently in other ways, which complicates matters. People should never be praised for constant edit-warring (unless that edit-warring is to removal obviously hateful content and keep it out, which this doesn't classify as.) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes the editing on nationality is just offensive [236]. IMO, the disruptive edits outweigh the solid ones because they are inappropriate and drive other editors away. -Darouet (talk) 20:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Topic Ban

Per Lukeno, I propose a topic ban for both users from Hungary-related ARBEE-related articles, broadly construed, for violating ARBEE. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 13:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For me, a topic ban from Hungary-related articles would be equivalent to a total ban from anything, while this method is only partially affected to the Slovak ethnic Omen's edits. It is not fair. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:00, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I was not proposing a Hungary-related ban. I was proposing an ARBEE-related ban. Technically, since one user insists these are Slovak articles, then the ban wouldn't actually work anyway. Obviously, I strongly support an ARBEE-related topic ban, but a Hungary-related one is definitely too narrow in scope. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that edit warring is not acceptable, it should be noted that user Norden1990 made several excellent contributions to WP, mostly to articles which fall into the category of WP:ARBEE. Therefore, by enforcing such a topic ban we would lose an exceptional editor. I think that warning both involved editors should be enough and, if they continue the war, a 1RR like restriction could be applied, to enforce appropriate communication. Cheers, KœrteFa{ταλκ} 18:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not saying that the editors haven't made good contributions, because they clearly have. However, any flagrant violations of ARBEE, like this, cannot go unpunished, no matter how good the editors may be. Also, 1RR won't work, as they're edit warring with each other over multiple articles, but not necessarily making more than 1 revert per article. It is always a shame to lose productive editors, but if they won't abide by the guidelines in such highly charged areas, then there's no choice. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then call this prohibition, which is actually that: ban from everything. Might as well you can also close my user account. Furthermore, Hungary is in Central Europe, so I don't understant this Eastern Europe ban here... --Norden1990 (talk) 11:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Of course you can not give appropriate reasons. So, could I not continue to create biographies of Hungarian politicians in the modern era? --Norden1990 (talk) 11:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The reasons have already been stated above. To prevent further edit warring and disruption. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 03:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No topic-ban - There is no demonstrated need for a topic ban after just being placed on notice as a result of this thread. Editor has been notified and that is enough, anything further will likely drive the editor away and serves as a procedural block/ban. I cannot agree with the warning to topic ban for this single instance, there has not been an issue since the warning and no expectation or evidence of bad-faith to warrant topic banning at this time. And to answer Norden1990's statement above; United Nations Statistics Division and the European Union considers Hungary to be in Eastern Europe, see page. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 12:03, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Might it not be simpler to use a standard discretionary sanctions model here? They've now both been warned/notified (Norden recently, Omen a long time ago and receiving a now expired 6 month ban later) and this has been reaffirmed here. If their poor behaviour continues, they can be taken to WP:AE which would likely be simpler than a ANI discussion. Nil Einne (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposing topic ban. I agree with the above comment of Nil Einne: for the time being, a warning is the proper solution. Borsoka (talk) 01:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I think that editing outside Hungary-related articles would be a very good thing for Norden1990, and help them learn a little more about neutrality, verifiability, and reliable sources in subjects about which they are dispassionate. -Darouet (talk) 20:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also, regarding Norden, Omen or anyone else, having to deal with nationalist editors is hugely disruptive and a gigantic time sink. -Darouet (talk) 20:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If Norden has really created as many as or more than 500 articles, that's really impressive. I just wish they would cool down on the nationalism question. Perhaps I'm wrong in my support for a ban here. -Darouet (talk) 20:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very dissapointed concerning your vote, as, I think, we could discuss the problem about the Szaniszló article. Yes, we did not agree each other, but you could see, finally a consensus solution evolved between User:Koertefa, you and me. --Norden1990 (talk) 22:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please, note that user Darouet is clearly not neutral in this question, since (s)he had/has many content disputes with user Norden1990. Topic banning user Norden1990 is in her/his own personal interest, since then (s)he would not have to discuss the issues in detail with someone having a different opinion. By the way: these discussions are indeed time consuming, but they are the right way to reach consensuses and, ultimately, to achieve more neutral articles. And that's our common interest. Therefore, user Darouet's vote should not be taken into account, even if (s)he was an administrator, per WP:INVOLVED (that's why I did not vote either). All the best, KœrteFa{ταλκ} 10:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Diffs? 75.171.41.8 (talk) 12:58, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We have been in a dispute here: Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló. -Darouet (talk) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Der Darouet, I would like to emphasize that it's not just about my topic banning, as User: Der Kommisar proposed this punishment for both of us (Omen and me). The last posts are beginning to shed such light on the matter that as if I were the only editor, who can count to retaliation. --Norden1990 (talk) 13:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I saw that Omen was also the subject of this, but don't know anything about them, and leave that judgement to others. It is true that Norden, Koertefa, and Fakirbakir are all in a dispute with me on the Ferenc Szaniszlo page. -Darouet (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both editors have demonstrated battleground mentality. I'm no expert in ARBEE matters, and certainly you could call me broadly involved because I've had a few run-ins with the Slovak/Hungarian crowd (I remember Samofi pestering me to get unblocked, and Borsoka and Fakirbakir promoting some excessively nationalist view of history templates), but with ARBMAC this kind of a violation of standards of behavior would definitely result in a reprimand. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

user:203.62.175.4

203.62.175.4 (talk · contribs) is vandalising pages by inserting/replacing/adding different names. [237] Delljvc (talk) 15:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Report is stale, i.e. the IP hasn't edited for 6.5 hours and has received multiple warnings on the user talk. No need to take action here. De728631 (talk) 16:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
... and, for future reference, if it had been current the place to report it would have been WP:AIV. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:SarB752

The user User:SarB752 is engaged in vandalism / edit war on Lashkar-e-Balochistan despite several warnings .. The user is removing sourced content and then adding unsourced things and calling it Revised information ..

Besides, I tried to contact the user but no reply is given ; the user continues these edits ..

I gave several warnings to the user on his / her talk page .. Admins may consider taking action against this user according to Wikipedia rules ...

Thanks ..--Maxx786 (talk) 15:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked 48 hours for edit warring. De728631 (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The harmful speech of Norden1990

I want to inform the admins about the uncivil speech and dubious agressive POVs of User:Norden1990 according to WP Conduct policy WP:NPA. What is considered to be a personal attack? 1) Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, national, sexual, or other epithets 2) Using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views. He recently called me in edit summary a "chauvinist user" [238], called my behaviour as "hysteria"[239] and named my edits as being frustrated or chauvinist [240][241]. When I complained about this behavior on another thread [242], Norden1900 was not sorry at all, but on the contrary: he replied that "I reserve the indicatives about you" [243] + he wrote "I'm sorry, but your activity is very similar to Iaaasi's." which is in fact similar to banned User:Stubes99 edits[244]. He also called the insertion of referenced text "vandalism"[245]. User:Norden1990 also used again pejorative provocative term "Felvidek" in English discussion with Slovak editor on my Talk page [246]. This looks like a some form of ongoing harassment. Slovaks associate the term Felvidek with the period of Magyarization and consider it pejorative used anti-Slovak, nationalist and revisionist chauvinists. "Felvidék nem Szlovákia" (Felvidek no Slovakia) from web site associated with Jobbik and Hungarism(Hungarian fascist ideologue) [247]. User:Norden1990 does not see a difference between Kingdom of Hungary and Hungary. Some unconstructive discussion with this user[248][249]. User:Norden1990 also claimed: "nationality was not relevant in the 15th century", unfortunately his demasked POV edits: Jan Jesenius - Slovak person [250][251] he wrote: "Slovaks had not yet existed." which is obviously an attack + also deleted info, Slovak nobleman A. F. Kollár[252] (Note: see edit summary manipulated with latin term Natio Hungarica...[253][254][255][256][257], it was a geographic, institutional and juridico-political category, regardless of language or ethnicity[258][259]) or another nationality was not relevant... edits: [260][261][262][263]... And typical behavior, User:Norden1990 wrote "The mention of Hungarian name only raises the quality of article. No need for paranoid."[264] and here deleted name Oradea [265] or [266][267]. Indeed quality of the article first. Or his contradictory edits [268]>[269]. In the past he also had this kind of unfriendly speech:

  • "then read history books, please. And not only in Slovak."[270] .
  • "No one can argue with a nationalist editor, just like you, Omen1229. You have strong Slovak POV, a typical example of the historical frustration" [271]
  • "It is not possible to discuss with an anti-Hungarian chauvinist, you proved this yourself" [272]
  • "typical product of Romanian chauvinism" [273]
  • "So you can go to hell together with your threatening." [274]

.--Omen1229 (talk) 11:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Its definitely not civil behavior, but I don't think there is much that can be done at this time other then DRN. The edit of Rightful ruler which placed a false banner on the page and was possibly the worst offense here. It would have to go to WP:SPI, but Norden's edit warring has resulted in locking of a page before and this problem has existed for months. While not terribly disruptive, these are minor personal attacks and a warning about personal attacks should have been issued first. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 13:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the very least, Norden1990 needs a NPA warning, and probably a block. There are some absolutely inappropriate statements there, regardless of whatever the OP has said in the discussions. I'm not inclined to look deeper into it, and would leave that to an admin. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:28, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We can see the most recent act of Omen's crusade against me. Dear Omen, do you think, the article of Upper Hungary is also a racist and pejorative anti-Slovak article, because it contains the word "Felvidék"? Felvidék is a Hungarian word, which means "Upper Hungary". This phrase marks the area, hich is today's Slovakia and which was part of the Kingdom of Hungary from the 9th century to 1920. "nationality was not relevant in the 15th century" - historical fact, They were nobles (natio Hungarica) and serfs, the modern national consciousness evolved in the early 19th century.

The other issues that you brought up again has already been discussed. I would like to ask the honorable court-martial that compare the edits of Omen and me. I hope you will see the difference. Since Omen is editing, there is only problem with him. Edit wars, POV edits, unsourced and malicious edits, there is need only look at his discussion page. I can only repeat myself about Omen's attitude and behaviour. Bye --Norden1990 (talk) 13:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Omen's conduct doesn't excuse your own. Nationalist debates require cool heads to resolve, and calling other editors names is not conducive to that. If you keep a lid on your own behaviour it makes it that much easier to report the misdeeds of others. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You used again provocative term "Felvidek" in English discussion with Slovak editor (me) on my Talk page [275] or in this discussion [276]. It was not in the article Talk page about "Upper Hungary". Nevertheless, also in the main article is: Any use of the word Felvidék to denote all of modern Slovakia is considered offensive by Slovaks.
I also dont understand your dubious POVs, you wrote [277][278]: "Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit" and then here you edited article with this term + deleted Austrian Empire[279]. It looks like some form of poor provocation.--Omen1229 (talk) 10:57, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My conscience is clear. I always strived for NPOV in my edits, and it is not my fault that Wikipedia is unable to filtering out nationalist editors, who call into question academic publications and historiographical works. I already created almost 900 articles (true, some of them are stubs), contributed in development of much, I do not think that I'd be in such a troubled editor. In contrast Omen always push his Slovak POV, ignores academic resources, get involved in edit wars, and probably is not a coincidence that he was banned already at few times. I do not see a fault with my behavior. I think (and obviously I only proclaim my own opinion) Omen is really a chavinist editor, and according to my knowledge this word does not mean insult. It looks like that is enough to accuse someone and the person in question is banned forever. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:41, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've searched the archives and I noticed that is not the first time when Norden1990's name appears on this noticeboard. Four months ago the administrator User:Sandstein raised the possibility of a topic ban / other sanction for Norden1990: [280]181.48.15.98 (talk) 14:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Iaaasi (note: a sockpuppet), first login and after that we can discuss, and if you see this incident, I was found not guilty. Omen reported me several times, but that does not mean that they should be taken as a precedent for continue this witch-hunt. --Norden1990 (talk) 14:46, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I always strived for NPOV in my edits... > this is only based on your personal thoughts, but your edits say something quite different.
I already created almost 900 articles... > And what is point? Some users created 10.000 articles..., but absolutely this does not excuse your behavior.
User:Norden1990 post is another absurd false dubious personal views/attacks with no evidence (Omen always push his Slovak POV, ignores academic resources...).
I do not see a fault with my behavior. > Norden1990 continue with personal attacks even on this noticeboard, in the front of the admins: "Omen is really a chavinist editor, and according to my knowledge this word does not mean insult". Accusing the proxy ip 181.48.15.98 of being Iasi is also a personal attack, because your allegation was not officially confirmed, it is only your supposition which must be kept for yourself in the lack of a SPI investigation.
He also bringing here false information (that I was "banned already at few times").
He also involved in edit wars, and not only with me (so in fact Norden1990's another false information...) [281] - here his opponnent was the user Inhakito. The result is that the User:Norden1990 is highly unreliable and only his dubious POVs are acceptable (for him naturally)...--Omen1229 (talk) 10:03, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do not instruct me on right behaviour. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Omen, you were "topic-banned from all edits relating to Slovak-Hungarian history for a period of 6 months, due to a persistent history of ethnic battleground editing" [282]. You were also sanctioned for "nationalist editing" [283]. It seems that the six months was not enough for you. For the case of Cabello: there were conflicting news after the death of Hugo Chávez. You can see the talk page, a cooperation evolved between the editors and I also took part in the discussion.--Norden1990 (talk) 18:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You wrote here at first false information that I was "banned already at few times". In fact Fut.Perf. banned Samofi and me after few minutes of investigation but in last 17 months he had not find a time to look on "opponents" as he promised. And here is topic-banned the reporting editor'. --Omen1229 (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I note that misconduct related to Eastern Europe is subject to discretionary sanctions per the arbitration decision WP:ARBEE. Without examining this in detail, it appears there is sufficient evidence for recent problematic editing by Norden1990 (notably, personal attacks by commenting about contributors rather than content, and mislabeling content disagreements as vandalism) to warrant a warning about discretionary sanctions, which I am now issuing. If this problematic editing continues, it can be reported to WP:AE for sanctions. Sandstein 09:23, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You can do whatever you want. I suggest you first should look at Omen's activity here. If the style that he uses is permitted, then there's nothing more to talk about. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I fully agree with Norden1990's comment. Fakirbakir (talk) 16:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Said User:Fakirbakir who for example declared this statement: "the modern Slovakia is a neo-fascist state"[284]--Omen1229 (talk) 16:27, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When he wrote that the neo-fascist anti-Hungarian and anti-Roma Slovak National Party (SNS) was member party of the Slovak coalition government. --Norden1990 (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, I'm taking a quick look. Now, Norden1990 has clearly acted in an inappropriate manner all too often, but Omen1229 seems to quite frequently revert Norden1990, sometimes incorrectly, sometimes not. Both users edit-war across a whole range of articles, over some of the most ridiculous things (categories seem to crop up fairly often) - Omen removing a category with a frankly inexplicable reason, based on the article here: [285], and [286] is part of a particularly pointless edit war from both sides being examples of both users reverting each other, pretty much based on the fact that their opponent (so to speak) made the edit. This can either be fixed by an indefinite interaction ban (which is almost certain to fail as both edit in the same area), or a 6 month/year long topic ban on editing any WP:ARBEE-applicable articles, broadly construed for both parties, for frequent, careless and pointless edit warring in those areas, based on nationalistic motives. The latter is by far the more likely to work, and I suggest that's what is applied. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Omen1229 seems to quite frequently revert Norden1990 > here are some my last edits and please look at who started:[287][288][289][290][291][292] and here is additional Norden1990's provocation [293] > he declared: "Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit"[294][295].
edit 105 > the article is about Slovak nobleman A. F. Kollár, also User:FactStraight reverted Norden1990's similar edits[296][297]. As I wrote above about this Slovak nobleman: [298] > see edit summary manipulated with latin term Natio Hungarica...[299][300][301][302][303], it was a geographic, institutional and juridico-political category, regardless of language or ethnicity[304][305]. Natio Hungarica does not mean Hungarian nobility, but it is Nobility in the multiethnic Kingdom of Hungary. Category:French nobility has a category under the name of the article French nobility and there is not article "Hungarian nobility", only Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary. And this edit[306]? It needed new category: Jews in Kingdom of Hungary or something similar, also scientists in the Kingdom of Hungary[307] etc... Being a citizen of the multilingual, multiethnic Kingdom of Hungary is not the same with being an ethnic Hungarian.
edit 106 > I don't understand what is "inexplicable" about my reason ("no source for this info")[308]. The edit summary is clear and it reflects the reality: the information is unreferenced. The same idea is supported by another user (Koertefa) on the article talk page: "I do not see the relevance whether "Mercurius"/"Merkúr" is an original Hungarian name. Even if it was, it would not prove for sure that he was ethnic Hungarian[309]--Omen1229 (talk) 08:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not evaluating whether the reversions are valid or not, but I can see multiple instances of you turning up at articles that you've never edited before, just to undo his changes. And Norden1990 has done the same, but less frequently. You're both edit warring in ARBEE areas, which is justification for a topic ban and/or a block, regardless of if your edit is right or not. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 09:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I assure you that his edit is not right. Omen. Felvidék (Upper Hungary) was an integral part of Hungary and has never had a separate territorial unit. That's right, what is your problem? There were separate administrative units, like Transyvania, Croatia or Fiume, but not Upper Hungary (or Felvidék, which lit. means "Upland"). Slovak nobility never existed, as was only one nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary (Natio Hungarica, as you wrote correctly). You are trying to force modern national consciousness into old situation. Cat:Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary is might be misleading, as there are also Hungarian nobles today. But they were born when the kingdom was already abolished. By the way, there is standardization: I couldn't find Cat:Nobility in the Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Poland or Kingdom of Portugal etc. etc. [310]. Aaron Samuel ben Moses Shalom of Kremnitz was a Jew and lived in today's Slovakia (then Hungary) in the 17th century. Mere speculation and anachronism to inserted him into the category of "Slovak Jews". Slovakia established in 1993, centuries later. You usually use POV edits and personal attacks ([311]) where you claimed Hungarian names as "fabricated", however article already contained Hungarian names (correctly, as apperanace only today's name version is illogical and misleading, according to my knowledge, Slovak language was never used in public administration). "however this is only a biography article of Štúr" [312] - illogical and poor argument, according to your perception, we should write that "Ho Chi Minh City was capital of South Vietnam in 1945". Absurd. These towns (Modor) were clearly part of Hungary, these undeniable facts. The term of "Uhorsko" is a fabricated phrase of Slovak historiography, which denies all connection and contiunity between the historical and modern Hungary. Then, Omen, now you just have to tell, who were the "Uhors"? Maybe Hungarians? I am also Hungarian, so please do not interpreted this Slovak POV to the English Wikipedia, as Western publicationd also do not use the term of "Uhorsko" or Uhor Country. [313] 100,000 results? Yeah... Jesenský is a common Slav name, but this family was a Hungarian noble house of Slav origin, as you can see the sources that I proved. "poor nationalistic dubious POV", typical behaviour of Omen. Like this POV pushing [314]. You continously add false information, despite of that User:Koertefa provided several Western sources [315]. when you run out of nationalist arguments, you always try to bring the matter to personal attack, as you did here [316], [317], [318], [319], [320]. --Norden1990 (talk) 11:21, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You usually use POV edits and personal attacks (131) where you claimed Hungarian names as "fabricated" > Well, so let's tell you more details about the etymology. Slovak person Ľudovít Štúr 28 October 1815 - 12 January 1856, Uhrovec - the version "Zayugróc" was fabricated in the 19th century (1863) in the period of Magyarization. You also wrote that "these towns (Modor) were clearly part of Hungary, these undeniable facts." I will stay only in the etymology of the town "Modor". You probably think the Slovak city Modra. So according to Štúr biography 1815 - 1856, the official names valid and used in 1808 - 1863: Modra, Modorinum, Modern, Modor. In the 1863 in the period of Magyarization until 1913 was valid only one name - Modor, other variants have been banned. So according to these etymological facts, your edits here edits look like bad faith.
the term of "Uhorsko" is a fabricated phrase of Slovak historiography > please write me more details with some source, because I do not understand you, I used here only term Kingdom of Hungary, if you want I can use latin term Regnum Hungariae or Kaisertum Osterreiach for Austrian Empire. In fact only you used in this discussion the term Felvidek and other dubious POVs...
I am also Hungarian, so please do not interpreted this Slovak POV to the English Wikipedia, as Western publicationd also do not use the term of "Uhorsko" or Uhor Country. > ? Where do you see these names in this discussion?
Like this POV pushing [134]. You continously add false information, despite of that User:Koertefa provided several Western sources [135] > Sources about what? Please first read the full discussion [321]. Where do you see "Upper Hungary"? You also declared that Upper Hungary has never had a separate territorial unit[322][323]. So according to these evidence, your edits here edits look again like bad faith.
edit Giglovce [324] > User:Norden1990 wrote: "Yes, but formerly known as Giglóc (until 1920)." In fact in the 1863 until 1913 was valid only one name - Giglóc, other variants have been banned. User:Norden1990 used in the article only one variant from this period - Magyarization. There are no members of Magyar ethnicity in the village - 0,00%. According to the 2011 census, the municipality had 153 inhabitants. 148 of inhabitants were Slovaks and 5 others and unspecified. There are also other names, for example: Giglowce, Gyglowce, Gyglowcze etc., but unfortunately this user used only one... User:Norden1990 also declared: "The mention of Hungarian name only raises the quality of article. No need for paranoid."[325] and here deleted name Oradea [326] or [327][328].
Note: I will continue in this edit, but now I'm bored of this unconstructive discussion with highly unreliable editor who have strong dubious POVs.--Omen1229 (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel the above "I'm right, it's the other guy who is POV-pushing" type responses sum up exactly why I believe an ARBEE topic ban is in order. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 19:19, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Topic ban for who? I do not get it. Please compare Norden1990's contributions to Omen1229's editing. Their contributions are as different as chalk and cheese. Norden1990 is an excellent wiki editor. He deserves praise instead of scorn.....Fakirbakir (talk) 15:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Both editors. Regardless of whether their edits are correct or not, both have violated ARBEE by frequently edit-warring over the nationality of a hell of a lot of articles, and that is a simply unacceptable fact. There have been some very solid edits by both editors, but the fact of the matter is that good edits don't justify editors staging all-out war on other editors. Both are constantly accusing each other of being POV-pushers and both abuse each other quite frequently in other ways, which complicates matters. People should never be praised for constant edit-warring (unless that edit-warring is to removal obviously hateful content and keep it out, which this doesn't classify as.) Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes the editing on nationality is just offensive [329]. IMO, the disruptive edits outweigh the solid ones because they are inappropriate and drive other editors away. -Darouet (talk) 20:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Topic Ban

Per Lukeno, I propose a topic ban for both users from Hungary-related ARBEE-related articles, broadly construed, for violating ARBEE. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 13:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For me, a topic ban from Hungary-related articles would be equivalent to a total ban from anything, while this method is only partially affected to the Slovak ethnic Omen's edits. It is not fair. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:00, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I was not proposing a Hungary-related ban. I was proposing an ARBEE-related ban. Technically, since one user insists these are Slovak articles, then the ban wouldn't actually work anyway. Obviously, I strongly support an ARBEE-related topic ban, but a Hungary-related one is definitely too narrow in scope. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree that edit warring is not acceptable, it should be noted that user Norden1990 made several excellent contributions to WP, mostly to articles which fall into the category of WP:ARBEE. Therefore, by enforcing such a topic ban we would lose an exceptional editor. I think that warning both involved editors should be enough and, if they continue the war, a 1RR like restriction could be applied, to enforce appropriate communication. Cheers, KœrteFa{ταλκ} 18:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not saying that the editors haven't made good contributions, because they clearly have. However, any flagrant violations of ARBEE, like this, cannot go unpunished, no matter how good the editors may be. Also, 1RR won't work, as they're edit warring with each other over multiple articles, but not necessarily making more than 1 revert per article. It is always a shame to lose productive editors, but if they won't abide by the guidelines in such highly charged areas, then there's no choice. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:08, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then call this prohibition, which is actually that: ban from everything. Might as well you can also close my user account. Furthermore, Hungary is in Central Europe, so I don't understant this Eastern Europe ban here... --Norden1990 (talk) 11:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Of course you can not give appropriate reasons. So, could I not continue to create biographies of Hungarian politicians in the modern era? --Norden1990 (talk) 11:06, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The reasons have already been stated above. To prevent further edit warring and disruption. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 03:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • No topic-ban - There is no demonstrated need for a topic ban after just being placed on notice as a result of this thread. Editor has been notified and that is enough, anything further will likely drive the editor away and serves as a procedural block/ban. I cannot agree with the warning to topic ban for this single instance, there has not been an issue since the warning and no expectation or evidence of bad-faith to warrant topic banning at this time. And to answer Norden1990's statement above; United Nations Statistics Division and the European Union considers Hungary to be in Eastern Europe, see page. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 12:03, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Might it not be simpler to use a standard discretionary sanctions model here? They've now both been warned/notified (Norden recently, Omen a long time ago and receiving a now expired 6 month ban later) and this has been reaffirmed here. If their poor behaviour continues, they can be taken to WP:AE which would likely be simpler than a ANI discussion. Nil Einne (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposing topic ban. I agree with the above comment of Nil Einne: for the time being, a warning is the proper solution. Borsoka (talk) 01:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I think that editing outside Hungary-related articles would be a very good thing for Norden1990, and help them learn a little more about neutrality, verifiability, and reliable sources in subjects about which they are dispassionate. -Darouet (talk) 20:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also, regarding Norden, Omen or anyone else, having to deal with nationalist editors is hugely disruptive and a gigantic time sink. -Darouet (talk) 20:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If Norden has really created as many as or more than 500 articles, that's really impressive. I just wish they would cool down on the nationalism question. Perhaps I'm wrong in my support for a ban here. -Darouet (talk) 20:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very dissapointed concerning your vote, as, I think, we could discuss the problem about the Szaniszló article. Yes, we did not agree each other, but you could see, finally a consensus solution evolved between User:Koertefa, you and me. --Norden1990 (talk) 22:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please, note that user Darouet is clearly not neutral in this question, since (s)he had/has many content disputes with user Norden1990. Topic banning user Norden1990 is in her/his own personal interest, since then (s)he would not have to discuss the issues in detail with someone having a different opinion. By the way: these discussions are indeed time consuming, but they are the right way to reach consensuses and, ultimately, to achieve more neutral articles. And that's our common interest. Therefore, user Darouet's vote should not be taken into account, even if (s)he was an administrator, per WP:INVOLVED (that's why I did not vote either). All the best, KœrteFa{ταλκ} 10:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Diffs? 75.171.41.8 (talk) 12:58, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We have been in a dispute here: Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló. -Darouet (talk) 15:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Der Darouet, I would like to emphasize that it's not just about my topic banning, as User: Der Kommisar proposed this punishment for both of us (Omen and me). The last posts are beginning to shed such light on the matter that as if I were the only editor, who can count to retaliation. --Norden1990 (talk) 13:39, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I saw that Omen was also the subject of this, but don't know anything about them, and leave that judgement to others. It is true that Norden, Koertefa, and Fakirbakir are all in a dispute with me on the Ferenc Szaniszlo page. -Darouet (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both editors have demonstrated battleground mentality. I'm no expert in ARBEE matters, and certainly you could call me broadly involved because I've had a few run-ins with the Slovak/Hungarian crowd (I remember Samofi pestering me to get unblocked, and Borsoka and Fakirbakir promoting some excessively nationalist view of history templates), but with ARBMAC this kind of a violation of standards of behavior would definitely result in a reprimand. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

user:203.62.175.4

203.62.175.4 (talk · contribs) is vandalising pages by inserting/replacing/adding different names. [330] Delljvc (talk) 15:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Report is stale, i.e. the IP hasn't edited for 6.5 hours and has received multiple warnings on the user talk. No need to take action here. De728631 (talk) 16:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
... and, for future reference, if it had been current the place to report it would have been WP:AIV. - David Biddulph (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:SarB752

The user User:SarB752 is engaged in vandalism / edit war on Lashkar-e-Balochistan despite several warnings .. The user is removing sourced content and then adding unsourced things and calling it Revised information ..

Besides, I tried to contact the user but no reply is given ; the user continues these edits ..

I gave several warnings to the user on his / her talk page .. Admins may consider taking action against this user according to Wikipedia rules ...

Thanks ..--Maxx786 (talk) 15:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked 48 hours for edit warring. De728631 (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edokter at Doctor Who

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Edokter has made edits through full protection at Doctor who[331], claiming that they are "fair game". He was already aware that this edit was controversial from his comment at WT:PROTECT here [332] He has been asked to revert on his talk page and has refused [333] [334] Edokter is using his admin tools to make controversial edits through full protection, without getting consensus on the talk page first, and is involved in the article.Martin451 (talk) 18:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Explaining once more: I made one edit, removing one word ("twelfth") that was unsourced. Removing unsourced information in itself cannot be controversial. The edit had no relation to any content dispute that triggered the page protection. I was asked to revert, but without any arguments partaining to its content, but merely on the fact it alledgedly violated WP:FULL. In its current wording (there is an ungoing discussion going over that), uncontroversial edits are allowed on protected pages. I am more then willing to revert, once the content of my edit has been disputed. Edokter (talk) — 18:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is precisely the behaviour being discussed at WT:PROTECT. Another admin made an edit, then reverted when asked to. You then undid that revert, and undoing that revert was a controversial edit using your tools to bypass protection. You were already aware that editing the article had been discussed, and the particular edit raised, but went ahead and changed the it anyway. That was controversial. We are not a newspaper and the edit should have been discussed first, or waited until protection had expired. You were asked to revert on your talk page and refused, and are now acting as a superuser.Martin451 (talk) 19:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That all still does not address the content of the edit, which was not what the page was protected for. The only issue here is procedure. However, procedure means nothing if the actualy content of the edit is not under discussion. Until you have a dispute with the content of the edit, this discussion is WP:BIKESHED. Edokter (talk) — 19:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't got a problem with that edit. The original sentence was complete unsourced speculation, the amended sentence is fact (or, at least, sourced to the primary source). That's a perfectly good edit, and even if it doesn't completely fulfil WP:FULL, WP:IAR applies in terms of improving the article.See below. Black Kite (talk) 19:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What Black Kite says. Storm in a teacup. Drmies (talk) 20:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, having now read the talkpage, the consensus is that any speculation should be removed, so in fact the edit does conform with WP:FULL. I think this can be closed. Black Kite (talk) 20:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Energetically modified cement (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can an admin close this please, one way or the other? It's been a farce from start to finish, and it's getting worse and worse. It's been open for eight days, and if it closes as delete, keep, or no consensus, I don't care - just please, get it done. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Wajidafridi1

Wajidafridi1 (talk · contribs) is a SPA whose sole purpose at Wikipedia is the promotion of Pakistani politician Haji Baz Gul Afridi. He has a history of writing clearly promotional prose without sources (the "Since 1999, He has not being directly involved in politics" claim was later proven false), of edit-warring to keep his preferred picture of Gul (which showed him with the then-Prime Minister of Pakistan, now deleted as a likely copyright violation) on the article [335][336] [337][338], and as a masterpiece claimed on IRC that his life was in danger if the article mentioned smuggling despite the New York Times reporting on Gul's arms shop in that context, a claim that got parts of the article revdeleted until the Office decided to take no action and to leave the article's content to the discretion of the community. I had hoped that now that the election is over Wajid would vanish again and that we wouldn't have to take action. Not so: Today he removed sourced content on Gul's 2008 election defeat (see "not being directly involved in politics" above) and simultaneously inserted an apparently fake claim of a re-election in Gul's 2013 district (not mentioned by today's Daily Times article, for example; he has now presented a "source" which doesn't mention Gul's district). He is clearly not here to build an encyclopedia, and this disruption needs to stop. Huon (talk) 01:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seconding what Huon is saying. My experience with him is that he's a liar par excellence, having never spoken a word of truth in #wikipedia-en-help to anyone trying to help him, and when called out leaving quickly or trying to change the subject. —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 01:36, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is WajidAfridi1. I would like to say that this whole thing against me is motivated due to personal differences between me and some people. There have been numerous times that they have ignored Wikipedia rules and taken it personal. When I uploaded an original picture, a user [Demiurge1000] took it off, not because it violated any rules or anything, but he told me that he will continuously dispute me until I stop editing Wikipedia.

Please check the following exchange of messages in IRC
<redacted>
My Question is that why the 12th of May? Surely this has nothing to do with any date.. but the whole 12 may thing by him was because that is when the elections are over! Why is he seeing this as personal. Later on, he made some statements which was targeted at me, Implying that I am some sort of a terrorist due to my background.. and I was offended by them.
<redacted IRC comment> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wajidafridi1 (talkcontribs) 04:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Three observations:
  1. It's claimed above that Wajidafridi1 (talk · contribs) is a SPA whose sole purpose at Wikipedia is the promotion of Pakistani politician Haji Baz Gul Afridi. Yes, even a quick look makes it very clear that Wajidafridi1's sole interest is Baz Gul Afridi. (At this point I'll refrain from commenting on the claim that promotion is the purpose.)
  2. There is an extraordinary resemblance between the names "Wajidafridi1" and "Baz Gul Afridi". Simply, there are two possibilities here. Either (A) the former is (or is employed by) the latter, or (B) he is not. If (A), then we have a conflict of interest. If (B), we have a potentially deceptive username.
  3. In this edit, Wajidafridi1 alters the article in such a way as to claim that the ordering of a re-election by the Election Commission of Pakistan is itself backed by this source. That assertion is not backed by that source. Wajidafridi1 thus added an untruth to the article. There are two obvious possibilities here: (A) mere incompetence and (B) an intent to deceive.
So I have two questions for Wajidafridi1. First, are you (or are you working for) Baz Gul Afridi? Secondly, how do you account for your attributing to a web page an assertion that the web page does not make? -- Hoary (talk) 04:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure that copy pasting IRC chat logs here without consent is a pretty big no no, but I'll leave that to be dealt with at the admin corps' discretion. I've notified Demiurge1000 seeing as their name was raised here and sought their comment. Blackmane (talk) 09:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wajidafridi1, it is not permitted to record material from the help channel and then publish it somewhere else. Please don't do it again, or your access to the help channel will have to be removed.
For context, my reference in the above-quoted conversation to the world's most popular firearm, was because the article which we were discussing was about an arms dealer (as is reliably sourced in the article itself).
The "me with my friend the former Prime Minister" photo was deleted on Commons after I raised the possibility that it may be a copyright violation. The photo currently used in the article is far more appropriate in any case.
It does not necessarily follow from the username that Wajidafridi1 is the subject of the article or is employed by them. (They could be a close relative, a distant relative, or just someone who shares one of the same names).
Wajidafridi1 should seek consensus on the talk page of the article before making any further removals of content, or potentially contentious additions.
Wajidafridi1 and others should refrain from using the help channel to discuss disagreements about what should be in the article, disagreements about Wajidafridi1's identity, location, or motives, disagreements about whether he has misled anyone about any of these things, disagreements about what that would say about him as a person, or disagreements about whether one or more people are personally biased against him.
I don't currently see an immediate need for administrator action. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:36, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hoary I just want to point out that the surname Afridi is a common surname, and hence its no extraordinary resemblance. However, I do say the (A) possiblity is correct because of all the facts I know in this case due to my heavy involvement.
Second, adding untruths to the article is not unheard of from Wajid. In the original article that I modified and then approved from AfC (A move I retroactively regret), we see the line "Since 1999, he has not being directly involved in politics but remained a key figure in the region". This line was uncited, but it appeared non-controversial and there was no need for me to suspect that, so I did not remove it.
However, the current version of the article states "Baz Gul was a candidate for National Assembly seat NA-47 in the 2008 General Election. He was third, with 20% of the vote". This fact is now sourced. When I asked him about it, Wajid claimed he did not know about it, but I find it implausible and highly suspicious, given the amount of detail he did infact know about the article subject [See the old revision for that].
Its therefore very clear that he is lying on this issue.
More comments on the rest of the statements shall follow in a short while. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 20:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Or maybe in a slightly longer while. Waj has repeatedly lied to all of us about everything here, including lying about alleged threats to his life from the article subject to prevent changing that article (to me as well as other editors). I have logs which I am willing to share with any admins to show his lying, and I am willing to try to find further proof of the same too. In my opinion, he deserves nothing short of a topic ban, and possibly as big as a possible block because of his disruptive nature and willingness and attempt to decieve all of us. [Did I tell you about the one time he came to the IRC pretending to be Jimbo, and "ordered" us to not attack that article?] TheOriginalSoni (talk) 14:15, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The majority of people who come to the help channel are single purpose accounts with a conflict of interest. A substantial proportion of them are deliberately misleading in some manner while there (e.g. pretending they don't have a conflict of interest). What makes this one special? (Why would anyone be attacking the article - your word - anyway?) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:47, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I dont remember where I've used the word "attacking". It would be good if you could remind me please.
To answer your question, first I think i should point out that just because a large number of editors are deliberately misleading doesn't make their actions less worse. Being deliberately misleading
And as for the second thing, the reason this issue is the way it is, is because of his lying, the article was forcefully set to a deliberately incorrect version for a substantial period of time. I dont think trying to manhandle the encyclopedia into his favoured way is something we should ever allow to pass. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 10:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to this edit.
As for "the article was forcefully set to a deliberately incorrect version for a substantial period of time", the solution to that is to thoughtfully edit based on reliable sources and BLP, rather than allowing anyone's ramblings on IRC to "force" anything.
The guy hasn't edited the article for the last four days. If he edits it problematically again, sanctions might indeed be needed.Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suspicious edits in the Balkan region

I'm not sure what all of the edits by Atillat7 (talk · contribs) are all about, but at least one of them (to Istanbul, here) is very suspicious. Their other edits involve apparent spelling changes, some of which very unhelpful. This is not my area of expertise, and besides, I'm about to make like a tree and leaf. It is entirely possible that they are trying something in good faith, of course. In addition, I wonder if some of you can have a look at the recent history of Istanbul, since there's been a lot of traffic, not all of it helpful. Thanks in advance, Drmies (talk) 17:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You should undo any bad edits and warn them of the relevant policies using user talk. Unless you suspect a sockpuppet, a modicum of WP:BITE still applies. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have an opinion on "Greece will receive Constantinople in 2014 and Russia will help them", from the diff above? Or on these spelling changes? I have no idea what the user is trying to do, and reverting saying "test edits" isn't very useful as an explanation, but that's what I'll do with this one. I was hoping for something with more explanatory power. Drmies (talk) 20:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty unambiguous case of POV-motivated vandalism, I'd say. Fut.Perf. 20:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What's the POV, Fut. Perf.? Someone's spelling is being given preference here--where does it come from? (Joy, that's what I wanted the expert opinion for.) Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I assume the POV is a "Greece will receive Constantinople in 2014 and Russia will help them" which appears to be making a political statement. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with FPS. That "Greece will receive Constantinople" statement is obvious considering the Greek/Turkish border dispute. De728631 (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Sigh) I'm asking about the Khagan spelling issue. "Greece will receive" is not a POV, it's a (silly) claim. Drmies (talk) 22:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

:OT. Sorry, but I do like this rather pot-boiler section title Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is unclear to me too, but it looks rather like a good-faith attempt of finding a specific title, or some testing of which page names might exist on WP. De728631 (talk) 22:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well, the naming of parts is a hotbed-issue in that area. Which language to use for geographical entities, for people, for titles? The language of the ruler? of the present time? of whoever claims to have gotten there first? The person who can say "Oh, that's the name as is used by party X in conflict Y", that's the expert I was hoping could weigh in here. Alan, I do what I can on a budget. Drmies (talk) 00:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:74.62.246.170

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This IP had been blocked 10 days ago and continues to vandalize pages, the one I caught was of The Powerpuff Girls today, I was going to leave a notice about it but saw all the ones already in place. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked one week for persistent edit warring. De728631 (talk) 22:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thanatkorn International

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Do do doggy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has created Thanatkorn International and recreated Thanatkorn International (TNKI) with unambiguous advertising content copied directly from http://www.tnki.biz/index.php for his dad's company (per his user page). This behavior has continued despite multiple warnings. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
And now Thanatkorn International co,.Ltd has been created, and of course deleted, as well. The user doesn't seem to be listening. - David Biddulph (talk) 10:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Natus Vincere

Can I request someone to take a look at this article please? I don't know the subject matter, it looks like it is riddled with vandalism and I can't find a clean point to revert it to. It may need a semi-protection too. It has had several new contributors and multiple IPs changing it with about 50 revisions in the last week. However, going further back through the last couple of months of revisions I can't find any point where I can clearly see the article as being a good copy. Apologies if this is posted in the wrong place. Thanks in advance QuiteUnusual (talk) 11:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about the vandalism bit - though I see how it might look that way. This is just in a more....informal style than is appropriate. It is odd indeed to talk about notable events with chaps like Kuroky and Hireling, though. Adding to the fun is that many of the sources are going to be Ukrainian or Russian, which limits what I can do there. I didn't see anything particularly obvious as far as vandalism goes, could you point it out? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 12:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:Qworty's talk page protection

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:SB Johnny took it upon himself to protect Qworty's talk page thereby shutting down ongoing discussions about what to do with the user's page following his banning. There was no vandalism. There were no attempts by Qworty to edit his talk page. SB Johnny's comments upon protecting the page were "Giving this page a few days off. Move on, the encyclopedia isn't being written here." I requested SB Johnny undo his page protection, but he declined citing IAR and "possible BLP violations" (really? where?). So - here we are. I'd like to see the edit protection removed from the talk page and for SB Johnny (or me) to get a better understanding of the community's norms and expectations. At present, our standards read thusly: [339]Rklawton (talk) 00:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Other people discussing whether Qworty deserves a special place in WikiHell not even typically reserved for far worse abusers of this site is not so terribly important.--The Devil's Advocatetlk. cntrb. 01:01, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hard to parse. Do you mean "It's not so terribly important to permit discussions by other people about whether Qworty...abusers of this site"? If I understand you rightly, I agree. Talk pages of blocked users are to enable them to request unblocks, and for other people to communicate with them and vice versa; discussions about the user are only appropriate elsewhere. None of this can happen with someone who's gotten himself a block without talk page access, and protection is appropriate when misuse is definitely happening. Nyttend (talk) 01:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He doesn't have access to his talk (see block log). --SB_Johnnytalk✌ 01:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Understood; that's why I said "None of this can happen with someone who's gotten himself a block without talk page access". Nyttend (talk) 01:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that would be what I am saying.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 01:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(after e/c)I protected in the interest of drama-stomping, and discouraging the "grave-dancing" (horrible expression). No big deal for me if it's undone, but honestly the wider discussion about Qworty (and his userpage) should be elsewhere. See y'all in the AM. --SB_Johnny talk✌ 01:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I for one am pleased to see the "manifesto" ("Qworty is a shtick") blanked from the user page, with cutesy picture and all. Editors banned for what Qworty did don't get to use their old user page for such self-congratulatory fake-postmodern BS, for a bunch of words that are but a lousy excuse. As far as I'm concerned, his talk page gets blanked for the same reason, and protected from editing. It's not all a game. Nyttend is quite right, and the gravedancing argument holds water as well; note that his talk page is completely useless since an unblock request will have to be initiated via email to ArbCom. The discussion that RKlawton seeks can be held elsewhere--and we're here already, so we could: I support blanking of the talk page per WP:SOAPBOX and indefinite protection given the likely possibility of gravedancing and the uselessness of said talk page for the editor himself. Drmies (talk) 01:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just as the talk page is pointless, so is any attempt to wipe out its contents. Let his comments remain and the few comments others made, we don't blank them for banned editors who have and still do, through sockpuppets, far worse things. We can just full-protect both user pages indefinitely.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 01:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see why his comments should remain. They're no explanation anyway--they're just a smokescreen and, for Qworty, a badge of honor. Drmies (talk) 01:39, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is one of those situations where the right thing to do is blindingly obvious. Blank the user page and talk page with appropriate notices and fully protect both, but do not revdel unless absolutely needed so journalists doing research can follow what happened by looking at the history. When revdel is required, make sure the edit comment explains why with a minimum of wikijargon. --Guy Macon (talk) 02:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Nyttend and Drmies and I think SB Johnny did the right thing. User talk pages are for talking with an editor, not about them. If a discussion about the ultimate fate of Qworty's userpage needs to happen, there are better venues for it (e.g. here, AN, MFD...) 28bytes (talk) 01:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • What 28bytes said. (ie: what Nyttend and Drmies said) Unusual circumstances call for unusual actions and this seems to be the lesser of all available evils. No need to allow his talk page to become a dartboard. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 01:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that I have read up a bit more (really, I completely avoided the previous discussion...wow) I think Drmies may be is completely right that blanking is appropriate, and I would support indef protection as well. No need for the talk page to be either a trophy or a dance floor. This can always be undone if he is allowed back, although I won't hold my breath. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 02:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • From my perspective that sort of blanking is effectively like trying to nullify an editor's existence to punish them, or sweep it under the rug whatever the case may be.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 03:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • And under normal circumstances, I would agree and we wouldn't have needed to even take away talk page access. Then there are exceptional cases with some community banned users, like this, which I feel warrant it. A rare exception, but reasonable. It is as much to prevent others from dumping on them as it is to disallow them to continue using their talk page as a soapbox. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 03:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indef protection is fine to resolve those concerns. The idea that his missives are so horrible that we can't allow people to see them unless they search for them is really quite silly to me. What does it actually prevent? Seems people who support this mainly support it out of spite, which is not how we are supposed to do things.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 03:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • What did I say that made you think it was out of spite? And your opposition is because you don't trust the motives of those here? I didn't even know who he was until today so I'm pretty sure my motives are not "spite". I'm still inclined to blank. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 04:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe not you, but it seems to be the primary motivation. There is no real purpose to blanking his talk page except to bury everything else about him in a revision history and leave only the tag of shame.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Their existence and edit history can't be nullified (well, unless they're vanished--is that a transitive verb yet?), and that's not what blanking a talk page does. Dennis's phrasing (neither trophy nor dance floor) is pretty apt. And seriously, "It’s time to get over the Internet. It’s time to get over ourselves." So it was all our fault, for believing that the articles we wrote were actually textual? That's the kind of thing we shouldn't be propagating. Drmies (talk) 03:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Blanking of user and user talk pages and indefinite full protection per Drmies, Dennis and others above. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:05, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Drmies is simply taking the easiest path to preventing martyrdom or disruption of Qworty's page. The subject is still under BLP and given the dispute; and not even the public nature of ANI prevented a rather venomous personal attack. The media is probably watching this still and reading our responses to see how we handle this. It may be drastic, but the actions serve to protect both Qworty and Wikipedia's image by not allowing editors a highly visible place to vent their frustrations. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blanking and enforcement thereof. The community does not need to discuss stuff indefinitely—some may want to do that, but please do it elsewhere because it is distracting when on-wiki (distracting because such endless discussion/bickering makes people forget that we are supposed to be building an encyclopedia). The page is being blanked to avoid misuse of Wikipedia for gravedancing or grandstanding—if someone outside Wikipedia thinks it is for spite they are mistaken. Johnuniq (talk) 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, if now is too hasty, perhaps tomorrow someone can blank the talk page, leaving some appropriate "courtesy blanking" notice or whatever. Maybe Chris is right and I opted for the easiest path--it'd be a first. I don't object to the latest edit by User:BullRangifer on the user page and I will go ahead and protect that right now (AN is probably the best venue to discuss issues pertaining to the user page). The talk page could maybe use something similar, some kind of explanation with perhaps some links (though the box on the user page covers it, methinks); I'll leave that for others to decide. And then we move on. Drmies (talk) 05:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blanking of the page and support reverting it to this version. Partly per TDA, with whom I agree when he says "There is no real purpose to blanking his talk page except to bury everything else about him in a revision history and leave only the tag of shame." and partly per ChrisGualtieri (I know he supports blanking), with whom I agree when he says "The media is probably watching this still and reading our responses to see how we handle this." Blanking this page is the wrong move from a PR perspective (the coverup is worse than the crime). If the media is watching then the chance that they'll know how to look through the page history is small. It just looks like a coverup. Also, the original version of the page as left by Qworty has been quoted in two articles already, with doubtless more to come. For an institution that makes a talisman of the phrase "the sum of human knowledge" to even seem to be covering up what is now a primary source for a notable episode in its history not only looks bad, it is bad. Obviously there are no BLP concerns. The guy put the stuff on his own user page. Presumably the most respectful thing to do is to leave it alone. To call it "courtesy blanking" is especially bad. It's not a courtesy if the editor hasn't requested it.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 05:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Courtesy blanking" doesn't mean "courtesy to the editor"--the term applies also to attack pages, copyright violations, etc. A permanent link to this discussion, with an explanation perhaps, undoes the cover-up bit. BTW, there are BLP concerns, since Qworty now has a real name as well; on the other side, the soapbox side, there's the "shtick" section, which in my opinion is inappropriate. Alf, I often agree with you, but not here. And now I will drop this particular stick--sorry for being so verbose in this thread. Drmies (talk) 05:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Chris and John both cite stopping discussions on the user talk page as a cause for blanking, but this purpose would be served just as well by indefinitely full-protecting the page in its current state. No need for blanking at all.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 05:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • On a further note I see Rangifer has once more restored the completely absurd and redundant tagging of Qworty as blocked and banned together with the list of links, while Drmies went in and full-protected the page in said state. The reinsertion of the links was undoing an action by the original blocking admin Ironholds that he explained well enough. You two and any who support you should start heeding his words, not because of any special authority he is perceived to have, but because he is right and it is right. This whole debate and any action that endorses the current state or compounds upon it by blanking his talk page as well, serves no constructive purpose whatsoever. His punishment has been meted out in spades: harassed, outed, his misdeeds exposed to the press, banned, tagged, and the community turned against him. Why is that not enough to sate your blood lust?--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 06:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I hadn't seen Ironholds' comments on the talk page when I restored the links. I left out the sentence/phrase that offended someone. I hope everyone noticed that. It's not a complete restoration. What's left is totally neutral and useful information. Leaving it there will help to avoid misunderstandings. Readers and journalists who are not familiar with the workings of Wikipedia will not know how to find this information and may write inaccurate things that will do no justice to Wikipedia or Young. If anyone has objections to the neutrality of the links, then let's discuss it, but just deleting without policy-based reasons is not a good option. This is an exceptional case and therefore we're doing something a little different this time and it does no harm at all. On the contrary. Try to AGF. There is no attack or harassment in this action at all. Otherwise, blanking of the page and leaving tags happens to be totally normal practice here. -- Brangifer (talk) 07:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only the banned tag is normal practice, not all the tags added after that. Not even sure why we have the block tag and we certainly don't need it when there is already a ban tag. As far as "does no harm", I imagine you would have a different perspective were you on the receiving end and are right now being clouded by your malice.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 07:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The page now states that "Sockpuppet investigation revealing the many sockpuppets used by Qworty/Robert Clark Young." The problem is that the list of possible socks was stale, and no sleepers were found. [340] Without a CU there are many accounts there that may well be socks, and did seem to act like them, but there are also some which feel less certain. I'm not sure that we should be linking to that with the description that that it revealed the socks, when a CU wasn't run. - Bilby (talk) 07:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Link should just be titled "Sockpuppet investigation (2013)" Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds like a good solution, but it's a moot point, now that the page has been completely blanked. Unfortunately the lack of information will contribute to confusion in the public and journalists, who will likely make mistakes due to lack of information. This lack of helpfulness will not improve the reputation of Wikipedia. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support blanking both userpage and talkpage, per my statement here. Ironholds (talk) 09:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not a fan of censorship at the best of times, & doing this when greater offenses haven't produced this result is an overreaction & unjustified punishment. It makes me wonder why. If an uninvolved editor, like myself, can come to the discussion & suspect (rightly or wrongly) the decision makers had a bias, then the process is flawed & the decision rendered certainly is. That outcome is not good for WP. Neither do I think that was the intended outcome. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 12:01, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • lock it down I'm looking at User:Essjay, which is fully protected in a more egregious state, and it seems to me that leaving this locked, without all the "helpful" links, is as good a state as any, and would give people an opportunity to find something useful to do. Mangoe (talk) 12:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whatever the outcome, it is best given BLP, that people stop discussing that person there. People may discuss reliable sources and encyclopedic phrasing on the talk page of that subject's BLP article, if it remains on the Pedia. Or choose other forums off the Pedia for their general opinions. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To reply to the matter of full protection, the user page is typically wiped clean as in the case of Bambifan101 and other LTA accounts, but the talk page often remains. Full Protecting the talk page I guess works out, though it leaves that little 'essay' and gives easy access to links which attack him. The matter of it being done off-wiki and that the user cannot remove them is of slight concern to me. Also, the page on the subject has been essentially trashed and links back to the user page. If full protection is what the community decides then I am fine with that. Qworty's stance and essay are one thing, but given the subject's page is referenced back from the article and the content is negative (even if true), it does not seem that this current drama is worth expanding to non-editors. The subject is under BLP all the same, and a permanent page full of dirt on this matter will be seen by many people who have to work with the editor as part of their career. Most sockpuppets don't have this off-wiki drama attached to their block, Qworty does, the fact the article was axed and throws the 'Wikipedia' controversy back seems to be Wikipedia's own way of preserving the conflict. And I'm not saying sweep it under the rug, I just see no need for it to remain given the nature of this dispute having a major off-wiki presence which will impact the subject's real-life and career. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 13:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I've boldly added the {{subst:courtesy blanked}} template to both the user and talk page, and extended the full protection to indefinite. No tag of shame, no one gets the last word. The editor is community banned, meaning they are no longer a member of the community. Terms like "censoring" have no meaning in this context as non-community persons don't share the same rights to opine that community members do, per WP:BAN. Of course, this doesn't mean we can justify anyone dancing on their graves either. None of the history has been deleted and anyone needing access to the previous information can with a single click. Assuming he doesn't start sockpuppeting, no tag on his user page is likely needed as any admin that sees that tag knows to check the history before unblocking. This addresses the concerns expressed above about it being used for shame and being used for a soapbox in the most neutral way. I have no opinion on the validity of the ban itself, and I didn't participate in that discussion. I understand some may disagree, but at the end of the day someone has to do something and this seems to be the best compromise that fits the consensus while addressing the real concerns expressed herein. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 13:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse protection/Support blanking If you look at the talk pages of other banned users, you will see massive amounts of grave dancing and martyrdom. If the page is protected and blanked now, we can prevent this kind of negative energy for arising in the first place. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 14:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the move by Dennis as a suitable compromise.--The Devil's Advocatetlk. cntrb. 15:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fine with me as well. DA, in regard to your comment above, I don't wish to break a lance for any template/box. I had no problem with it being there, I have no problem with it being removed. Now that the SPI has (just) closed with the note that no obvious sleepers were found, certainly that link does not deserve a prominent place anymore. Drmies (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, been busy today. I fully approve of the resolution here... apologies if I caused drama while I was trying to stifle drama ;-). --SB_Johnny talk✌ 18:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:OWN on 2013_Moore_tornado by United States Man (talk · contribs)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A major edit war (something that would go at WP:AN3RR), but it involves an ownership of articles. I count 22 reverts in the past 36 hours on a number of articles, hence implying an ownership. I also suspect some borderline personal attacks. I could link to the all, but his contribs page says it all. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Could you select some of the worst problems, provide diffs, and a brief contextual explanation as to their problems? I see a LOT of editing by that editor on the Tornado article, but that's not unusual. The fact that someone is making a lot of edits is not itself a sign of ownership, nor is reverts, per se; a fluid article on a recent news story attracts a lot of editing, and not all of it is good. I have seen nothing in scanning his recent contribs list that stands out as problematic, at least as self-evidently as you seem to imply it is. If there are problems, it would help if you gave actual diffs of the worst of the worst and explained what is wrong. --Jayron32 03:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is what happens when people forget that this isn't a newspaper and think that being first somehow makes it good. We should have a rule forcing a 24 hour wait on current events. Since we're WP:NOTNEWS, it really wouldn't hurt. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
YE always seems to revert any changes I make to articles like this. Why he does that I will never know. Anyway, I would love to know how WP:OWN applies. YE started an edit war with me because I took something off the talk page that was WP:FORUM. The rest was reverting rating and death toll changes to the tornado. I don't think I did anything wrong - other than the mess with YE. United States Man (talk) 03:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I originally gave the editor a 3RR warning for a rather pointless sequence of reverts where he removed improvements to the article's infobox, with the excuse that it was "taking up space": [341][342][343][344]. He proceeded to blank the warning, and engage in a low-grade revert war on his talk page about removing the warning, then followed by a straight revert of a good-faith wording change by an anonymous user, which caused another round of reverts.[345][346] Add to that incivility in the article's talk page, and it seems to me that the editor needs a break from the article. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 03:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)I will admit that those reverts were my fault. I repeatedly asked what was being changed by those edits. When the user finally explained I realized that I was wrong and backed off. The thing with the talk page was that I did not know that I didn't have the right to take those off of my talk page. I see others do it all the time. I did end up archiving the thread and all is well there. Whenever I get mad and start something, I usually try to fix it. United States Man (talk) 03:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The only edit that I see that was wrong with the list Yellow Evan gave was this, which was sort of harsh. The application for protection was because people kept putting in wrong ratings and death tolls (sometimes just plain vandalism). WP:OWN does not apply there last time I checked. This was not being hateful, but rather being in a hurry. This was nowhere close to WP:CIVL, just asking what difference it made, which I would have known if I had looked hard enough (again my fault). These are just examples of me being a little aggravated, that's all. United States Man (talk) 03:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As for the talk page, you don't "the right" since editing is a privilege not a right. You are technically allowed to remove warnings off your talk page, but it is not encouraged. YEPacific Hurricane
I am not aware of any encouragement to keep such notices on one's talk page. Drmies (talk) 05:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Correct in one - removing a talk page notice is tacit acknowledgement that you have read the notice. You can't say you missed it later when we have a diff of you removing it, after all. But that goes both ways - you really can't get off with ignoring it either. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 12:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • US Man, those two editors that reverted your edits to your talk page have been told that they had no right to do that. See WP:OWNTALK: you have the right to do with your talk page as you please, pretty much, and don't let them tell you otherwise. [OK, that's obviously not Bradspeak since there's a ton of things you can't do (see WP:TALKNO), but none of these things were happening here.] Drmies (talk) 03:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I looked over all the actual diffs that were posted.... I'm not sure how much further one's expected to dig into the edit history on something that's barely 12 hours old... I don't think removing a large criticism from your talk page is good form, but it's allowed, nor do I think the other edits are particularly bad, nor do I think their removals are explained (at all). This is stupid btw... this is a pending natural disaster, there are hundreds of people hurt, and you guys are bitching over absolutely nothing of substance. Grow up and do some good with the article. Whatever "not news" therefore we shouldn't talk about anything current (let's make it a year, for fun) talk is above, that's not how we work, and people look to wikipedia for useful information. I don't see anything admin worthy here [yet], but you two need a strong slap on the wrist. None of this should have ever been brought here. Shadowjams (talk) 07:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I mostly agree with Shadowjams here. I was hopping for more on the [[[WP:3RR]] side of this, but I had no idea there was some encouragement against recent events. However, since we are clearly getting nowhere, I withdraw this request. I am not here to fight people 24/7 I am here to wrtie articles and build an encyclopedia after all :) YE Pacific Hurricane 12:21, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikihounding: Threat and follow-through

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Steelbeard1 openly threatened to commit Wikihounding against me back in April. He was warned by an admin at that time that his behaviour "is indeed considered wikihounding". Eventually I stopped hearing from him and I thought it was over. On May 21 he started confronting me again and promptly admitted that he has been following my edits with the intent of giving his input in any "editing disputes" I am involved with.

It is abundantly clear that he is once again wikistalking me, and is not only vowing to Wikihound me but is clearly following through on that vow. He is also threatening retaliation if I report his behaviour:

ChakaKongtalk 13:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I follow any editor who makes obviously false edits if you recall from his glaringly false edit in the MGM Music article. Because he got involved in an editing dispute which I hoped I settled in the Black Sabbath (album) article, I had to settle things there. If you read the top of his talk page, the statement he made regarding his involvement in editing disputes is very hostile and he refuses to apologize regarding his hostile reply to my polite pointing out the faulty edit he made. I think the problem with with Kong, not me. See [351] Steelbeard1 (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While I have not yet looked into the underlying edits, I will say this: Steelbeard, it's not your job to police another editor's edits. If Kong repeatedly posts false information, we have places to report that sort of thing. But vowing to "keep doing it until you apologize" is the very definition of wikihounding. Who gives a shit if they apologize or not? Clearly they will not discuss the matter with you, so let it go, report it, and move on. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Kong - I don't know that Steelbeard is wrong about the MGM Music thing, though - what was the deal there? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@ UltraExactZZ: Here is the edit he's referring to. An anonymous IP added unsourced content and all I did was revert that edit per guidelines. That's all I did. Steelbeard1 is somehow interpreting that as something terrible. I didn't actually add anything to the article. If there was incorrect info there, it was added previously by someone else, not me.
*[352]
ChakaKongtalk 13:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What Kong should have done is insert a [citation needed] tag to request a citation. When I reverted his faulty edit, I added the citation. My issue with Kong, again, is his hostility regarding faulty edits when they are pointed out to him. Steelbeard1 (talk) 13:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Repeatedly describing edits as "faulty" also comes across as rather hostile. Dricherby (talk) 14:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What other word should be used to describe an obviously false edit, Dricherby? Steelbeard1 (talk) 14:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Obviously false" is even more hostile and suggests that the editor was lying (perhaps you're not a native speaker and didn't intend that meaning). In the case of the edit [353] linked above, removal of unsourced material seems to be a valid option and is certainly not "false". It was just an edit you disagreed with. Dricherby (talk) 14:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not that I disagree with the edit, it that the edit was just plain wrong, false, incorrect, untruthful, etc. Those already familiar with the pre-1986 MGM soundtracks know that Time Warner sold Warner Music Group in 2004 and Warner Music's license to issue the material has expired. Here is the edit which is at the core of the problem which is at [354] in which ChakaKong reverted an uncited, but true passage which created an obviously false passage repeating what User:Superastig, who is notorious for making false edits, made at [355]. I follow Superastig as well because of his questionable edits. If you look at his talk page's history, he deletes comments about his faulty edits. Steelbeard1 (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Removing a message from one's talk page is clear and documentable evidence that the editor has seen the message, and may be presumed to have read it. There is no rule that prevents editors from removing messages from their talk pages, unless it is a block notice or reviewed unblock request and they are currently blocked - and that caveat does not apply here. Did ChakaKong continue to revert on MGM Music after you added a citation? You mention questionable edits, plural - what other questionable edits do you refer to? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I made no aditional edits to MGM Music after Steelbeard got upset. If he has ever had an issue with any other edit of mine, he hasn't stated it yet. ChakaKongtalk 14:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My issue with Kong is his hostile reply to my pointing out the problem with his edit as well as his posting on the top of his talk page to all who have issues with his edits which I consider to be hostile. Steelbeard1 (talk) 15:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that (the talk page thing) is not really that unreasonable a concern - and you may consider ChakaKong to have been made aware of it. You cite no diff for the other thing. Now, I'm going to ask you to voluntarily ban yourself from any sort of interaction with ChakaKong or any discussion in which he is already involved. You have been wikihounding him for no clear purpose, and that needs to stop right now. If you are unwilling to voluntarily stop and walk away from this, it is likely that you will be subjected to an involuntary ban - one with far stricter constraints on your editing. You may even be blocked from editing. Please end this. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here user Steelbeard1 clearly admits that the "faulty edit" which has driven him to wikihound me was actually done by another editor and not by me. ChakaKongtalk 14:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, clearly in reverting an unsourced change you reintroduced incorrect information to the article - and I find your lack of perfection in your editing appalling enough to recommend an indefinite block. How DARE you make a mistake? What nerve. See how dumb that sounds? In all seriousness, reverting to the status quo was a reasonable edit, and what errors were introduced were not introduced by you AND were rapidly fixed by Steelbeard when he posted the correct info with a source. That's the way these things work, and I for one have no problem with that edit. You're good. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]


For reference, this previously came up at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive794#User_talk:ChakaKong, about three weeks ago. It was closed without action. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Regardless of whether the reversion of the IP was sound or not, there is clear evidence of Wikistalking by Steelbeard. Ergo, I propose that a final warning be given to Steelbeard. If they continue their stalking after said final warning, then further preventative measures shall be in order. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 14:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I want to see Steelbeard's response to my question, above, but yeah - I'm leaning that way as well. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:57, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Give him some time, I'm sure he's very busy combing through every edit I've made in the past six months in an attempt to find an example of imperfection. ChakaKongtalk 15:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, I've seen enough - and have asked him to voluntarily enter into an interaction ban with you and pages on which you are involved, as per WP:IBAN. If he does so - or if we have to impose such a ban - would you do me a favor and keep your distance from him as well? No need to poke at it. Thanks! UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I will very happily keep my distance from him. ChakaKongtalk 15:49, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, it was just that one edit and the more recent edit dispute I ran across. My issue with Kong is his downright hostility when I pointed out that first faulty edit to him. Let me ask this question to the administrators reading this thread. What would you do if you found a faulty edit, politely let the editor know he made the faulty edit only to receive an angry and hostile response which greatly offended you. I had stated that I would let the matter slide if Kong apologized, but he refused to. So now it led to this moment where I may be punished over Kong's open hostility to me. Let's make a deal. If Kong apologizes to me, I will unwatch him. There may be a remote case where he makes a disputed edit in an article I am already following, but I can't help that. I hope this satisfies everyone. Steelbeard1 (talk) 15:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd love to see a diff of this hostile response from ChakaKong. As to your question, though - if someone made a faulty edit and I called them on it, and they left me an angry note about it? I'd probably reply with something along the lines of "OK, dude, whatever." And then I'd let it go. If they attacked me personally, I'd leave them an NPA warning. But I would not waste my time following them around. Our policy on Wikihounding does not include the language "Wikihounding is prohibited unless the other editor said a mean thing to you." Now, ChakaKong may have been out of line in saying whatever it is they said, or they may not have been. But your conduct has been unquestionably out of bounds - and reaffirming your intent to continue that wikihounding in a statement on ANI is singularly unwise. You may wish to reconsider that. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@UltraExactZZ: Here is the diff of my "angry and hostile response" Steelbeaerd has been so offended by. I simply told him that my reverting an unsourced edit was a very poor reason for him to leave a warning on my talk page. The entire exchange can be read here. ChakaKongtalk 16:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I had noted Kong's goof at [356]. When I asked administrator Gfoley4 at [357] what the proper procedure to let an editor know that an edit was glaringly incorrect should be, he replied that what I did was fine and proper. Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(EC) Steelbeard, to be honest, you demanding an apology for some vague slight against you that you haven't bothered to illustrate does not reflect well on you. My good faith advice to you is just to get over whatever it was and go about your business, and leave ChakaKong alone. Dayewalker (talk) 16:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, administrator Gfoley4 informed Steelbeard that "your behavior is indeed considered wikihounding. This is disruptive, and you need to stop. If you don't, further consequences may be considered". Funny how that got left out. ChakaKongtalk 16:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If was Gfoley4's posting on the original complaint page that inspired me to ask the question on his talk page as to what the proper procedure to let an editor know an incorrect edit was made. I also asked him on his talk page to add his input here. Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(OD) Steelbeard, you're trying to justify your actions by quoting an admin who told you a month ago [358] that you were hounding ChakaKong, and to leave him alone. Let it go, man. Dayewalker (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That is why I asked that admin what the proper procedure to let an editor he/she made a faulty edit should be and I did do that. But Kong's reply was far from receptive. Steelbeard1 (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At this point, multiple editors have pointed out to you that you're clearly and unashamedly stalking another editor, and you should stop. Your actions here aren't helping anyone, most of all you. At the most, this was a minor miscommunication. Dayewalker (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to close this, with some notes.

    Final warning to Steelbeard: your response was way over the top. I see no "hostility" in this response--it's perfectly valid and plenty neutral. Continue to follow ChakaKong and you will be blocked. And really, if that note was hostile to you, good luck in the real world; I'm surprised, frankly, that ChakaKong followed up in a relatively calm manner to your passive-aggressive comments and actions. Chill out. In general, and especially in this case.

    ChakaKong, I suggest that you remove that rather childish "warning" from the top of your talk page. We're not in middle school anymore; this was bad enough and this just made it worse. Talk pages are made for whining and bitching: get used to it. A notification like that serves only purpose: to piss people off before they even get started. Drmies (talk) 17:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Bidgee

I would like to inform the admins of what I believe to be continued uncivil behaviour and unfounded complaints, of which I am at the receiving end at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Australian_Roads#AUshielding_conversions.

The entire thread should be read through in its entirety, but there are quite a few diffs supplied below with some specific edits:

  • [359] - pure adhom.
  • [360] - topic discussed has nothing to do with US Roads anyway.
  • [361] - attempt to move the discussion to more suitable place thwarted with claims of "forum hopping".
  • [362] - threats to stop contributing content if I dont fall into line, dismissal of official noticeboard for WP:OR.
  • [363] - conspiracy claims, continuing about images supplied
  • [364] - issues with unrelated topics
  • [365] - more, continued conspiracy, likely unfounded claims of COI in a recent ACR i took part in



I have already removed myself from an RfC due to claims that I personally am trying to force a specific change, which is probably the basis of the conspiracy mentioned above. I probably did make a few nieve mistakes at that RfC, but these shouldnt follow me to other discussions, and they certainly should derail them to the extent they have so far.

I will comply with any and all requests for my own behaviour to be modified aswell. -- Nbound (talk) 14:46, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Harassing editor making false accusations

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:SudoGhost is behaving aggressively at Talk:Iron Man 3, including by making a false accusation about edit-warring. Rather than discuss the issue of his behavior, he wrote, "[I]f you think I am 'harassing' and 'bullying', you are more than welcome to take it to WP:ANI," so even though I'd prefer to discuss, this is his demand.

Rather than go into a long description here, I'll simply point here to his accusation of edit-warring after I had made precisely one (1) edit here at Iron Man 3. I informed him [366] that I found it harassing that he'd post a long edit-warring note and accusation on my talk page after one edit.

He removed my comments from his talk page [367]; I subsequently removed his from mine. [368]. He then falsely accused me a second time of editing-warring, after I had made a third-party comment, as is not improper, at a 3RR he brought up against another editor. The string, with difs, here cover that.

As I said, I'd have preferred discussion; it was at User:SudoGhost's insistence only that I bring it up here. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If "I don't like that comment" turns into "they are bullying and harassing me" then most of Wikipedia would be blocked from editing. If at worst I was just incorrect and editors haven't been blocked for edit warring for making a single revert (they have) then I'm wrong, but being wrong is not bullying or harassment. The editor saw that there was an ongoing discussion, but decided to comment and then remove the content, which is odd because they then reverted an edit I made on the basis that "there's active discussion on the talk page" even though they had just removed content despite active discussion on the talk page. Is this a double-standard, or was it a "well I'll revert you back" edit or meant to be done in a WP:POINTy manner? Since we're being dragged to AN/I since Tanbrae won't stop making these accusations on any page he can, I would love an explanation as to this. It's also odd that a single edit continuing an edit war is not edit warring, but a single notification (which is required to report an editor, which he requested I do), is harassment.
The editor then said that "If you believe I am edit-warring, then report me here. Otherwise, we do not make such unsupportable allegations" which is almost right (as one must be warned before they are reported), but otherwise a fair point. However, that point falls flat then since then they then use talk pages to throw around accusations of harassment, even following me to AN3 to accuse me of harassment there but stopping short of "reporting" anywhere appropriate, only accusing in every other location, yet they would like the courtesy they are not willing to do themselves?
After contuining to accuse me of less-than-honest behavior they then went to canvassing the only other editor that agreed with him (he didn't provide a "neutral notice" to the editor that disagreed with him). I'm fine with plenty of things, but this double-standard behavior doesn't really make me feel terribly compelled to sympathize.
Tenbrae knew there was an ongoing discussion, made a comment, and continued the back-and-forth by reverting to his preferred version despite that. If that is not edit warring, fine. However, by continuing to revert they lost that excuse, and they have far surpassed that single "false accusation" with wild accusations of WP:OWN, WP:Harassment, failure to WP:AGF, and the editor's canvassing. - SudoGhost 18:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Another false accusation. I'm losing count. Going to one editor and writing neutrally, "As a past participant, you're invited to join the discussion at Talk:Iron Man 3" is not in any way canvassing.
I reiterate: Jumping onto someone's talk page after one edit and posting a warning symbol and a long claim about edit-warring is deliberate, bullying, harassing behavior intended to intimidate another editor from making editos SudoGhost happens to disagree with.--Tenebrae (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Going to one editor and writing a neutrally worded comment is not canvassing. However, only posting a "neutrally worded" invitation only on the talk page of the editor who agreed with you is. It doesn't matter how the message was worded, it's who the message was sent to (and not sent to) that makes it canvassing. According to WP:Harassment, "Harassment is defined as a pattern of repeated offensive behavior", yet to my knowledge I have never interacted with you before, and that talk page message was the first thing I've said to you. You then accused me of harassment after that single message. With that in mind, do you still assert that it's harassment? - SudoGhost 18:55, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Harassment "can also include actions calculated to be noticed by the target and clearly suggestive of targeting them, where no direct communication takes place." It logically follows the same can be true of the next step, where direct communication has taken place. Harassment also includes "[p]lacing numerous false or questionable 'warnings' on a user's talk page." I'll leave it up to an admin to decide if it's perfectly reasonable and perfectly permitted to place any false or questionable warnings on a user talk page. Also, canvassing, by definition, involves contacting than one person. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Harassment is a pattern, not a single instance, and following my edits to continue to attack me is itself more harassing than anything I have done. If you're going to quote WP:Harassment out of context, you should probably at least provide diffs to show how I have been hounding you without actually interacting with you, which is what that is saying. If a single edit continuing an edit war is itself not edit warring, then at worst I am just plain wrong. However, when you flew off the handle and accused me of harassment, bullying, and being "WP:OWNy" while engaging in the same behavior you felt I was wrong for, you lost any merit you would have had in complaining. I've gotten templates and messages I disagreed with. Those people were not "harassing" me. What you're saying is that any unwanted comment is harassment, and not only is that wrong, that perception does not give you license to engage in WP:POINTy behavior and WP:Canvassing, which says nothing about "more than one person". You left a talk page message on a specific editor's message to influence the discussion to your benefit, and avoided leaving one on the talk page of the other participant, who disagrees with your position. That is canvassing. - SudoGhost 23:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your false allegation of edit-warring was the first thing you said to me, so I'm not sure it's fair or reasonable to say I "flew off the handle" when you initiated contact by accusing me of something I did not do. And an "unwanted comment" is one thing — a warning symbol and a false allegation are something far beyond an "unwanted comment." "Accusation" and "comment" are words with two different definitions. As for the canvassing claim, let's let an admin decide if contacting one person neutrally is "canvassing." See the dictionary definition of "canvassing." --Tenebrae (talk) 23:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, continuously accusing someone of harassment at every opportunity for a single comment is flying off the handle, given that for that single edit you threw that accusation on your talk page, in an edit summary removing that discussion, on my talk page twice, and following me to an AN3 discussion to accuse me of such there, on an article's talk page, and here, despite the fact that leaving you a template on your talk page is nowhere near harassment. By continuing to edit war by reverting the content, you were edit warring. You came nowhere close to 3RR, but editors have been blocked for a single revert before, so it's hardly a "false allegation". I probably shouldn't have put the template on your talk page, but your reaction and subsequent behavior have been disproportionately hostile, given the number of times you have repeatedly accused me of harassment today (which by my count is close to a dozen separate times). I did not "harass" you, certainly not be Wikipedia's definition. I want you to please stop making accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence.
As for splitting hairs about the dictionary definition of words, that is irrelevant. Wikipedia uses Wikipedia's definition of canvassing, not whatever dictionary definition suits you at the time, and under that definition there is definitely the appearance of canvassing, since you only notified the editor who agreed with you, and failed to notify the editor that did not. Wikipedia also uses Wikipedia's definition of harassment, and you have yet to show how you were harassed in any way under that definition, yet you continue to attack me under that pretense. Please stop. - SudoGhost 23:46, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry you don't like my answers. Please remember, it was your idea to bring this here. And I'm sorry you disagree with someone using words precisely: I'm a journalist, and I believe being accurate in one's wording is extremely important. In any case, as I said, let's let an admin decide. I'm signing off from this for the night — you can have the last word. Try to make it reasonable and I'll try not to respond till tomorrow. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It was my idea to bring it here because you continue to attack me despite no evidence to back your claim of being harassed. You being a journalist or not is irrelevant since this is not Wiktionary but Wikipedia, and we use the consensus-determined meanings on Wikipedia, not "dictionary definitions". As you said, being accurate in one's wording is extremely important, yet on Wikipedia you continue to do otherwise. You were not harassed, but your subsequent behavior in response has been entirely inappropriate. Do you have any evidence that you were harassed in any way that would meet WP:Harassment? - SudoGhost 01:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, being on Wikipedia doesn't mean creating our own language and words no longer having dictionary definitions — this isn't Through the Looking Glass. And I have to ask: What word would you use to describe an inaccurate and unprovoked accusation intended to intimidate and create a chilling effect? --Tenebrae (talk) 02:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So...what you're saying is that no, you were not harassed in any way that falls under WP:Harassment, but you believe that any unwanted comment on your talk page can be labelled as harassment based solely on your interpretation of some vague undefined dictionary definition? That's not how Wikipedia works. Harassment on Wikipedia is defined at WP:Harassment in the very first sentence, and since what you're saying does not come anywhere close to that definition, that pretty much confirms that your comments are personal attacks as they lack evidence of any kind that anything of the sort took place. If you have a problem with the definition of harassment on that page, discuss it on that talk page, but unless consensus changes what that page says, your comments about dictionary definitions do not have any merit in regards to what harassment is on Wikipedia. You have not shown that the comment was inaccurate, and it was not unprovoked. It also was not "intended to intimidate and create a chilling effect" by any means (I'm at a loss as to where you came up with that); it was intended to get you to comment on the talk page instead of pushing contentious changes that had been reverted by several editors. Despite multiple requests to do so, you have not shown in any way that you were harassed in the slightest, for the obvious reason that you were not harassed. So stop throwing personal attacks at me; either back up your claims or stop making them. - SudoGhost 02:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's an old debating tactic, taking what someone says and then rephrasing it in a way that says what you want it to say rather than what's being said. Admins see that all the time and aren't fooled by it. Bottom line: Wikipedia doesn't let anyone go around making false allegations against another editor. As well, I don't have to prove a negative, that I didn't edit war — the burden of proof is on you to prove I did edit war. And since one edit is not an edit war, yes I have "shown that [SudoGhost's] comment was inaccurate."
We can keep going round in circles or we can let an admin read this increasingly long and repetitive argument and decide for him- or herself if your initial attack on my page — your false allegation of edit-warring, designed to chill debate — was harassing or not. --Tenebrae (talk) 12:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Let me get this straight, you believe that the template, which was written by a consensus of editors and directly asks you to discuss the content, was intended to stop you from discussing? No. It was intended to do the opposite. You got offended when you were notified of edit warring, and started throwing around personal attacks. You were not harassed. Show that you were, or stop saying it. For someone so concerned about "false allegations", you'd think that wouldn't be a difficult request. That way there doesn't need to be "an old debating tactic", you can actually address your claims. Were you harassed under WP:Harassment and if so, how? If you're so concerned about being harassed it would help to show it instead of just attacking others, because that's a poor tactic for those with nothing better to say. Please, show that you're not doing that and back up your claims or stop making them. - SudoGhost 17:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Let me get this straight: You're saying it's perfectly OK to go to another editor's page and flat-out lie that they were edit-warring, even going so far as to post a warning symbol? Wow! I'd love to see an admin's reaction to that assertion! --Tenebrae (talk) 18:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you two want to argue with each other, pick one of your talkpages. If you want input here, it might help if you'd both shut up and wait for someone else to comment. I've lost interest myself, but perhaps it's not too late for someone else. --Onorem (talk) 19:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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IP genre warring

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I am an idiot. Sorry. Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 22:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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This IP's contribs could probably use some admin attention. I suspect a tie to this mess of days gone by, given the articles involved. This address may be abandoned shortly, but please leave this thread open in case others pop up, which is this individual's MO. Thanks! Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 21:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Septa14 (talk · contribs) looks to be involved as well, as the IP above undid a revert of that account's edits at Led Zeppelin. Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 21:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
81.138.2.36 (talk · contribs), I'm 81.138.2.36, sorry if I caused some trouble. I thought due to the 46.189 user I could help but sorry if I caused a bad amount of mess. I won't do it again, I was trying to help you and SabreD, sorry for the inconvenience.
81.138.2.36 (talk · contribs) Just to note, I'm not the 46.159.112.165 guy.

Gonna try not to flub it this time. The actual culprits look to be Septa14 (talk · contribs), METALMAN2488088 (talk · contribs), and a host of IPs. 81.138.2.36 (talk · contribs) is here to help. Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 22:05, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've now notified those two registered accounts. De728631 (talk) 22:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I meant to do the same but was busy trying to track down a source for something else. Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 22:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Septa14 is a new editor who had never been warned over their contested edits, so I'm asking them here to use reliable sources for the changing or adding of musical genres instead of editing without any summaries or references. METALMAN2488088 has had ample requests and warnings at his talk page and received a final warning notice on 7 May without any effect. I have therefore blocked him for one week. METALMAN2488088, please note that the mentioning of musical genres in Wikipedia articles is not to be attributed to our own research as you stated in this edit summary, but it should only reflect what has been written elsewhere in reliable sources. Our own opinion is irrelevant for writing any article content.
Evan, as to the hosts of IPs, is there any special article you've noticed a recent surge of IP activities or was that just a general observation? De728631 (talk) 22:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm misjudging a lot of things today! :) In IP 81's contribs I noticed he reverted 108.208.170.51 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and a few others. You can check his edit summaries where he reverts the ones I suspected were related (historically the genre warrior in question -- see archived thread I linked to -- has lingered primarily around articles related to Led Zeppelin and Uriah Heep). It's primarily the range of interest of those IPs that made me suspicious, but it could just as easily be coincidence. Not enough for an SPI or CU or anything, I'd guess. Thanks for your help! Evanh2008 (talk contribs) 01:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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ProudIrishAspie

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ProudIrishAspie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has added flags to approximately 2600 infoboxes in the last month, despite four warnings from two editors flagging up the WP:INFOBOXFLAG policy. He has not responded to the messages and continues to add flags. Final warning has been given. Span (talk) 00:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Have they added one since that final warning? I mean, that's eminently blockable, but if they haven't added any then your warning was heeded. Drmies (talk) 01:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There seem to have been a couple more since the final warning, but ProudIrishAspie seems to have moved on to other editing. So, it's not a crisis, but... I think better communication is needed here. bobrayner (talk) 01:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, you're right--didn't see those. Tell you what, I'll say it out loud on their talk page one more time, and next time they get a 31-hr block. Drmies (talk) 01:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, I have implemented a 31hr block for disruptive editing. Lectonar (talk) 07:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks Lectonar. It had to happen, didn't it. Drmies (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, I have kept about half an eye on him since the thing with his userpage, so yes, I agree, it had to happen....but see my talk-page now. Cheers. Lectonar (talk) 17:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Murrallli and WP:BLP policy.

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User:Murrallli appears to have been repeatedly adding 'Category:Indian fraudsters' to articles in circumstances where the individual concerned has not been convicted of such an offence, in clear contravention of WP:BLP policy. See for example [369],[370],[371]. After the matter was first raised at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard‎#troublesome mass addition of cats, User:Murrallli has also chosen to issue what might possibly be interpreted as a (somewhat farcical) legal threat on my talk page: [372]. Can I ask that this matter be looked into, and appropriate action be taken. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look at it - but right away I see that English may be an issue. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Andy, I cannot see a legal threat but that could be just my eyes (long day and it ain't even half over yet!), can you provide a specific diff please? Never mind, found it - diff of comment being removed. GiantSnowman 15:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fierce as I am in defending my fellow editors, I have to agree that the remarks don't constitute actual legal threats. I think, Andy, that the editor (whose English is sub-par) is threatening to report you to your supervisor or something. --Orange Mike Talk 15:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) After taking a gander at that lovely message left on Andy's talkpage, this looks more like Wp: CIR and WP: NPA problems, IMHO. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 15:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

user grumpy is wasting administrators time and my time, with trivial personal grudge on me, I am not even editing those articles now, he can interpret any thing, he can interpret a devil, it will become true??? time waste Murrallli (talk) 15:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot to be concerned about in your edits - this removed comment, for example, would have gotten you blocked outright had you not retracted it. Of greater concern, to me at least, is that you responded to questions about what you were doing and why by flipping out and saying a lot of really angry things. That's a problem. Do you understand that this is now how things are accomplished here? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:15, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing has to be concerned over my edits, I dont understand, my english is better than u, that user's interpretations are sub par, user grumpy is wasting administrators time and my time, with trivial personal grudge on me (about categories), I am not even editing those articles now, he can interpret any thing, he can interpret a devil, it will become true??? time waste Murrallli (talk) 15:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) From the incoherent statement above, I think we can assume that this editor is either trolling or just doesn't get it. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 15:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)Yet here we are. If you can calm down and discuss Andy's concerns about your edits, maybe you might find that there are better ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Everything here is decided by consensus and discussion - getting angry when questioned about an edit is not going to get you anywhere. He questioned your edits to categories, you responded by threatening to go to his house. That's a problem. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Please stop repeating yourself, comments like "he can interpret any thing, he can interpret a devil, it will become true???" do not make any sense in English. You need to listen to the good advice you are being given, or you might end up being blocked GiantSnowman 15:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Admin? Competence block? Looks a slam dunk to me.... AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is it not a disparagement to refer to User:AndyTheGrump as "grumpy"? Please do not use such derogations against fellow editors. DrPhen (talk) 15:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not when Andy self-identifies as a grump through his username. ;) Writ Keeper 15:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've no objection to being described as grumpy - but can we try and stay on topic. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On topic, they seem to have stopped editing for the moment, and their contribs in mainspace (other than the category thing, which they said they stopped) seem to be okay, so I'm not sure a competence block is indicated quite yet. If they come back posting the same thing yet again, then probably. Writ Keeper 15:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but a contributor who shows no understanding whatsoever of basic Wikipedia policy, resorts to threats and claims of a conspiracy when challenged, and spams pages with self-evidently-false claims regarding skills in the English language [373] doesn't look 'competent' to me. As of yet we have had no acknowledgement whatsoever from the contributor that their edits were improper, and nothing to indicate that a similar problem won't arise in the future. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And the instant that editor posts another aggressive or attacking comment, I'll betcha you have half a dozen admins who will indef - myself included. But that editor does have a history, over the past few months, of good editing - so I don't think the situation is beyond salvage, as yet. One calm "Maybe I overreacted, won't happen again, etc etc" comment here coupled with an agreement to stay out of the whole category issue, and this goes away. A return to form, and we get to click "Block user". Not entirely sure which it will be. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As Ultraexact said. Given that they've stopped, at least for now, we can afford to pull our punches a bit. If they continue being disruptive, then yes, blocks will be issued. Writ Keeper 17:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Indef for a vandal at Obama Sr's page

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Obviously not here to contribute, has a fixation on Barack Obama, Sr., changing the name of the president to "Dictator Barack Hussein Osama-Hitler-Stalin Un]" and racist overtones as well, altering Sr's cause of death to "too much KFC". Tarc (talk) 15:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done. AIV may have been just as quick, but this works too. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 15:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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User:Himesh84

This is user has now removed referenced content three times (1, 2, 3) from Jaffna kingdom which is a Good Article. I have tried explaining on the talk page the need for references and that his actions amounted to original research but he just ignores me. This editor has a long history of ignoring core content policies (see user's talk page) and has been blocked a number of times. --obi2canibetalk contr 18:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have blocked for 72 hours, for edit warring and disruption. The bright line wasn't crossed, but it's edit warring nonetheless. Note: one might expect a longer block, given their rather extensive log, but I see no evidence of name-calling or the use of racial or other slurs, which is what prompted earlier, longer blocks. If I missed them, feel free to lengthen the block. Drmies (talk) 19:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was looking at that and debating action myself, not convinced a "Dear friend" letter was going to do the trick this time, so I have to agree with the block. I'm a bit concerned about the overall clue with the editor. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 19:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Good block. I'm afraid that this is becoming a lost cause but doesn't hurt to give yet another chance. I guess. --regentspark (comment) 20:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User Watti Renew

I added a comment (permalink) to Watti Renew (talk · contribs)'s talk page considering his behaviour. In Finnish Wikipedia, known there as simply Watti, he has been involved in two RfC:s (1, 2) regarding his/her disruptive editing and neglect of article scope. He/she also seems to continue his/her old habits in English Wikipedia, too. Please be careful about this user's contributions. --ilaiho (talk) 14:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Behavior on another project is not (yet) relevant here. If you have something specific you think requires admin intervention, you may bring that up. Without such specifics (that is, specific problematic edits that require some kind of action), this reads like blackballing. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 15:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    In my comment at Watti Renew's talk page, I linked to this and this edit as examples of contributions to en that resemble those that were considered problematic in fi. I am not sure if this is the correct place for this thread, there are lots of different noticeboards in English Wikipedia. I just want to advice English Wikipedia admins to not allow the situation escalate to the same point as happened in Finnish Wikipedia. --ilaiho (talk) 16:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that those paragraphs were way off-topic, especially the 2nd one and thus WP:UNDUE. But there's no immediate reason for administrative action. Your reverts address the problem adequately for now. 5.12.68.204 (talk) 23:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:Parrot_of_Doom

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I came across User:Parrot_of_Doom while browsing the DR/N @ Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#A_Momentary_Lapse_of_Reason. I have no stake (nor opinion) in the actual content dispute, and note that User:Pigsonthewing is not blameless, but Parrot has a massive failure of several policies WP:3RR WP:CIVIL WP:OWN WP:NPA. This failure seems willfull, per the notice at the top of the user's talk page : " One, anyone coming here accusing me of WP:OWN will be told in no uncertain terms where to shove it. Two, anyone whinging about WP:CIVIL will be referred to the previous answer. [...] Four, never again will I venture onto ANI or any similar admin-related pages, either to resolve an issue, or to respond to somebody else's issue; I'm here to write articles, nothing else."

His fundamental point may or may not be based in policy (Do featured articles have a higher standard of consensus/quality for incoming edits?), but his application thereof seems highly inappropriate.

and edit summaries such as "This is a featured article, either cite thing correctly and consistently or I will revert your changes. I make no apology for protecting an article against degradation like this"

or comments such as "Take your threats and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. If you want to add material here, do it properly, or lose it"

A few other choice diffs regarding previous warnings of policy violations [374] [375]


And it looks like he has been reported here quite a bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=parrot+of+doom&prefix=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27+noticeboard&fulltext=Search+noticeboards+%26+archives&fulltext=SearchGaijin42 (talk) 20:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Old news, and you don't request any administrative action. I suggest you not bother PoD with a notification of this thread, and let me do it. I'm closing it.Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment(edit conflict)This does not looks good. I see multiple problems with this user's behaviors. Most recently: WP: OWN problems (here), WP: NPA (calling another PotW's edit "degradation"), WP: CIVIL (refusing to discuss on the talk page) and general WP: IDHT. Something really needs to be done about this user's incivility. I fear it may create big problems in the future, especially for new editors. Alles Klar,Herr Kommisar 20:47, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    And what do you suggest that "something" ought to be? EricCorbett 20:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    At least a stern warning. If it continues, possible future sanctions (e.g. blocks or 1RR restrictions perhaps). Open to suggestions, of course. Alles Klar,Herr Kommisar 21:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    You wouldn't like what I'd suggest, but it would involve acting like an adult, not a sulky child. EricCorbett 21:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Please read WP: NPA. Calling other another editor a "sulky child" is not appropriate. Alles Klar,Herr Kommisar 21:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank for the blue link, so instructive. Just remind me, who did I call a sulky child? Eric Corbett 21:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    (ec)So ... it's the job of the main editor on the page to just suck it up and deal with someone coming in and adding information (which may or may not be reliable) in any form the adding editor wants... no matter the fact that the article being added to is a featured article and must meet some criteria, including consistency of referencing format? Andy's not a newbie editor - he knows what a featured article is and he should know how to add reference information in different styles to conform to the style used in the article. Adding information in a style that doesn't conform to the article's consistent style IS degradation, especially in a featured article. I kinda doubt that PoD would have been nearly so bitey with a true newbie, but Andy should know better. Neither are clean here, and the best outcome would be for both of them to back down a bit. But right now I'm seeing calls for PoD to back down, but nothing about the confrontational additions from the other side. Frankly, as someone with a decent number of article edits under my belt, I find the constant demands that I clean up other editor's messes sometimes very very trying. Ealdgyth - Talk 21:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
PoD is quite correct to be vigilant about ensuring quality of articles. He however must do so without edit warring, making unilateral ownership decisions, and making repeated uncivil attacks against other editors. As I stated in my original comment, Pigs also has issues, but the issue with Parrot is that these isues appear to be endemic, and since he has seen fit to post on his user page that he will completely ignore all such issues, and that those who disagree should "screw off". Gaijin42 (talk) 21:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I wholeheartedly agree. The edit wasn't particularly sound, and I know i've seen Pigsonthewing here at AN/I before. That still doesn't make it ok to direct those kinds of comments at other users. Alles Klar, Herr Kommisar 21:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be suffering from some kind of selective blindness. Why did you choose to bring PoD here rather than Pigsonthewing, who I believe has served two lengthy bans for his behaviour? Eric Corbett 21:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Content aside (and is the change for a band image from 1971 to 1973 verified?), this edit is just of real poor quality--I know how much time it takes to get the referencing right, and sticking in a bare URL and a "reference" like this, <ref>[[Classic Rock (magazine) Classic Rock]]'' 2010 calendar</ref>, in an FA, that's in such poor taste that I can't fault PoD for getting exasperated. "because you don't like the formatting", as is cited in an edit summary or two, is totally off the mark: the formatting sucks, and continuing to add it without addressing the problem (PoD stated repeatedly on the talk page that he won't stand in the way of the addition of properly formatted referenced information) is...what, baiting, really. Perhaps Pigsonthewing doesn't care about another block and feels he can afford one, but we should not let him mess up an FA in hopes of other editors cleaning up his mess. Drmies (talk) 21:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Quite frankly, Mabbett's edits were crap; the bare ref, the middling trivia about the beds and the tide roll-in, and the technically incorrect caption alteration (protip; a poster isn't the same thing as a gatefold). Bad edits + churlish non-attempts to explain oneself deserve the type of reaction that Parrot gave. Civility is a trivial concern compared with making an artcle worse than it was before one touched it. Tarc (talk) 22:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Proposal Now that a little light has been shed on this case, I think we can come to a conclusion. I propose that both editors be warned, Pigsonthewing for making bad/baiting edits, and Parrot of Doom for incivility. Alles Klar,Herr Kommisar 22:42, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    And that would be likely to achieve what in your opinion? Sometimes adults need to be allowed to disagree. Eric Corbett 22:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Hortobagy

I would like to raise attention for User:Hortobagy. He violated 3 revert rule dozen's and dozen's of times in the past few days. For example:

  • 8 reverts in 24 hours (Actually he created an unwanted fork article):

[376] [377] [378] [379] [380] [381] [382] [383]

  • An article had been speedy deleted, however he recreated it. His second article has been speedy deleted recently. Romani autonomy in Hungary
  • He deliberately creates unwanted forks or articles without sources. For example:[384]

Please check his contributions. Is it normal what he is doing??? Fakirbakir (talk) 20:54, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, IMO he's heading for a ban. While we're on the subject, this reminds me a bit of Bonaparte (talk·contribs). Anyone remember him? -- zzuuzz(talk) 21:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
See also Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive797#4_Socks. Dricherby (talk) 23:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • While you folk decide what to do about the editor in the long term, I've blocked them for one week based on a report at WP:ANEW.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Block evasion by User:SpazAbiogenesis

User:SpazAbiogenesis is an obvious block-evading sockpuppet of User:MDPub13 and User:EunuchRU, both of whom have been indeffed for personal attacks, threats and block evasion. SpazAbiogenesis is continuing to post the exact same abusive vandalism that MDPub13 was blocked for.

User:MDPub13 admitted his ability and intent to engage in massive sockpuppetry.

An open SPI case exists at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AbioScientistGenesis, but has not yet been responded to. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 02:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Legal Threat at Help Desk

User:Joseph2707 has made a legal threat at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Correction_or_retraction_required Robert McClenon (talk) 00:01, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The legal threat was made as a result of a WP:BLP violation that has been properly removed by User:AndyTheGrump. Andy has also warned the user of WP:NPA. I can't speak for other admins, but I'm not inclined to block the user.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly - WP:NLT policy makes it entirely clear that we don't jump down the throat of someone making a reasonable complaint about a WP:BLP violation or the like simply on the grounds that they use words like 'sue'. We cannot assume that every non-contributor is familiar with the finer points of Wikipedia policy, and to do so is a sure-fire way to escalate things unnecessarily. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since no one has linked it, WP:DOLT should be read, to wit, "When newcomers blank articles or make legal threats, they may have good cause. Stop and look carefully before assuming they're disruptive or wielding a banhammer." --Jayron32 03:31, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wer900 proposing to proxy-edit on behalf of site-banned user Captain Occam

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Captain Occam has become one of the most disruptive site-banned users on wikipedia. He has edited through several proxy editors including his girlfriend Ferahgo the Assassin (now site-banned by arbcom) and TrevelyanL85A2 (a cyberfriend of his girlfriend, now indefinitely blocked) amongst others. With his girlfriend he has also socked as Zeromus1 (blocked by arbcom), Mors Martell (also blocked by arbcom) and most recently it would appear through Akuri (blocked by arbitrators). Through a series of sockpuppets and proxy-editors, most notably the indefinitely blocked user Cla68, he has continued to wage an irrational vendetta against me. The sockpuppet Akuri was discovered recently for reasons connected with that. Captain Occam's editing through others has been obsessive and disruption-only. At the moment he is using wikipediocracy as his base. A user active there, Wer900, has proposed to act as a proxy editor for Captain Occam on wikipedia to continue his campaigns here.[385] I have never been aware of the activitives of Wer900 on wikipedia but was notified of their posting by the new notification process. That is a splendid innovation. If Wer900 is intending to act as a disruptive agent for a site-banned user, who has caused huge amounts of disruption already on wikipedia through proxies and sockpuppets, please could his editing be dealt with in an efficient way? Captain Occam is amongst the site-banned editors to have caused large amounts of disruption since being banned. All indications were that Akuri, a disruption-only account, was operated by Captain Occam. That account was blocked recently by arbitrators. So now, seemingly as a direct consequence of that block, Captain Occam is delving deeper into his dirty tricks bag to make mischief on wikipedia. (On the off-wiki site Wikipediocracy, User:Stanistani and User:Cla68 have encouraged disruption by Captain Occam. Stanistani is now behaving in a disruptive way on wikipedia.[386]) Mathsci (talk) 03:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not trying to act as a "disruptive agent," I'm merely interested in filing a case on his behalf. I've emailed arbcom-I on whether or not such a case has been policy-compliant. If you look through my contribution records, I've not gone anywhere near Captain Occam in the past, and as stated above I'm trying to accomplish this in the most policy-compliant fashion possible. Please end this needless witch-hunt as soon as possible. Wer900talk 03:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was interested in governance reform of the community, and hoped that the case recommended by Captain Occam could in some way further the construction of further institutions. Again, I've messaged ArbCom to see whether my proposed actions would be compliant with policy or not. Wer900talk 03:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the spirit of free inquiry, Mathsci has the right to face his accusers. Since his accusers are banned and blocked, the community can't do anything in this matter. Viriditas (talk) 03:33, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) Openly proxy-editing to promote the disruption-only agenda of a user, site-banned by arbcom, can only result in your own editing privileges being withdrawn if you continue. Given the history connected with WP:ARBR&I, particularly recently, it is known that Captain Occam (with his friends) has knowingly engaged in deceptive editing on wikipedia. So editing on his behalf as you admit to doing is not permitted on wikipedia. You cannot act as the agent for a disruption-only arbcom-banned account like Captain Occam. He is an extreme case. You might think it's fun, but that is not how wikipedia works. You are simply continuing Captain Occam's purely malicious campaigns. How difficult is it to understand that? Mathsci (talk) 03:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He may not be aware of this. Best to AGF until proven otherwise. Wer900 may have just opened a can of worms without really understanding the backstory. Maybe it is best to let this go, close the thread, and hope he drops it. I realize that this requires you to make a leap of faith, but you have nothing to lose. At this point, I think he deserves to be able to safely exit this thread with nothing more than a reminder. Viriditas (talk) 03:47, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wer900, you need to stop this. Captain Occam is definitely not welcome to edit through proxies here, be it in matters of article content or with Arbcom requests or anything. Doing anything at all here on Wikipedia at his request is a very very bad idea. Fut.Perf. 03:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I'm stopping this. I'l relay to Captain Occam that I cannot edit on his behalf. Wer900talk 04:06, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wer900: "Apparently Mathsci has taken ownership of articles related to Poland"

That's here. [387] I have never edited any articles to do with Poland. Wer900 has mistaken me for someone else and has caused unnecessary offence. Is that why he has submitted a report in private to the arbitration committee? If Wer900 has no idea what's going on, he would be better off leaving matters alone. Mathsci (talk) 04:25, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's what Captain Occam and others have told me on Wikipediocracy; I shouln't take it on faith. Again, I have no desire to extend this. Any admin can close the thread at this point. Wer900talk 04:36, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A sensible solution. Closing. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:51, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) Wer900 cannot come on wikipedia repeating things like this just because site-banned Captain Occam has said it on wikipediocracy. My last 2000 content edits on wikipedia have been in mathematics, on the topic of hermitian symmetric space, Jordan operator algebra, Mutation (Jordan algebra), symmetric cone, Quadratic Jordan algebra, etc. No articles even vaguely related to Poland. If Captain Occam has been making false statements off-wiki, why repeat them on wikipedia? Akuri is mentioning Wer900 now on his talk page. More evidence, if it were needed, that Akuri is an account operated by Captain Occam.[388] Not good. Mathsci (talk) 05:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

removal of comments

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bbb23 (talk · contribs) is repeatedly removing comments of myself, IP 24.61.9.111, and Little green rosetta [389] [390]. My reference to applicable policy on their talk page [391] was not responded to. I'd like the comment restored.

Prior discussion regarding closing may be found here: Wikipedia_talk:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive_10#archivetop_and_collapse_tags. NE Ent 03:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • You invoked WP:TPO in your question to Bbb, but I don't see how this noticeboard is a TP, v/r. There was a thread asking for admin intervention, none was forthcoming, an admin decides it's not actionable, end of story. Asking Arthur Rubin to explain Arthur Rubin's edits on Arthur Rubin's talk page seems like a good idea to me. Drmies (talk) 05:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is not how Wikipedia works, Drmies. Wikipedia makes decisions based upon consensus, not individual administrative opinions. Administrators only implement community consensus, they do not unilaterally makes up rules as they go along. I am concerned that you think there is some great divide between administrators and editors. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 05:42, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks for the lesson. Should every admin bring every single block to this board for your approval? Drmies (talk) 14:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This and this are in absolute violation of policy. Bbb23 is warned against further violations of policy through editing and/or removing comments that are not his. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 05:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not seeing what's wrong here. The discussion was closed, and Bbb23's comment seems to be entirely appropriate. Now, if someone had reopened the thread, then it wouldn't have been so bad - and I'm surprised neither LGR nor Ent took that route. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 07:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My comment was rhretorical stating in not so many words that if AR did not use any admin functions, so he was not required to give a response per INVOLVED. For the record, I'm ok with bbb23's comment removal per his edit summary. little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer
17:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's common to be reverted over a closed discussion, at times drop the stick must be enforced without blocks it seems that the discussion ran it's course. Why keep adding fuel for the fire Hell In A Bucket (talk) 07:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just another voice echoing that its pretty common practice to revert comments made after a close, and that those comments could just as easily been made directly to the person's talk page. Sergecross73msg me 14:27, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The close was not modified in any way. Additional comments were added in the same section but under the archived messages, as is consistent with policy. It is a clear and unambiguous violation of policy to remove comments from other editors. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 17:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Removing comments that were made after a section is closed, in the same section, is not a policy violation and it is done as a matter of course as it is, in fact, continuing the closed discussion. If the discussion is to be continued it needs to be unclosed, or to be re-started in an entirely new section - "tacking on" to the bottom of a closed discussion is acting as if it were not closed and is asking for the comments to be reverted. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:49, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • And now Arthur Rubin himself is violating policy by removing comments. Interestingly, he only removed them after he commented and didn't like the direction they were headed. Additionally, AR is making wildly inappropriate sock puppet allegations. This is now three policy violations on the part of AR, WP:3rr, WP:TPG, and WP:HARASSMENT. The questions remains will anyone pull the block trigger on AR because he is an admin despite clear and unambiguous violations of several policies? My guess is "no". 24.61.9.111 (talk) 17:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm taking a wild ass guess that AR is removing your comments because he possibly thinks you are an indeffed user and effectively banned. little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer
17:47, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you were just talking about the importance of coming to consensus, and there's clearly no consensus forming to support such a block, so that was a pretty good guess. Sergecross73 msg me 20:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Block 24.61.9.111

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I guess my original wild ass guess that this ip belonged to User:StillStanding-247 was incorrect. A quick look at the edit history of our ip user above, it is most certainly the same person behind the account of indeffed User:Basket of Puppies. Both the account and ip have shown an overwhelming interest in Spontaneous cerebrospinal fluid leak. Hopefully a passing admin will block and someone else will make this section go blue and that will be that. little green rosetta(talk)
central scrutinizer
21:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am neither of the above. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 23:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Arthur Rubin and Little green rosetta. Per their constributions I have blocked this IP as a sock of Basket of Puppies. De728631 (talk) 23:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Tabarez: Edit warring and WP:OWN on Iranian presidential election, 2013

Tabarez was warned last night (21 May, 2013) by admin Toddst1 that "Continued edit warring on Iranian presidential election, 2013 or any other article may cause you to be blocked without further notice", but is at it again this morning, reverting other ppl's edits and making edits with total disregard for the opinion of others. An attitude that he has also shown on all other articles he has edited during his short but very active career here on en-WP. In spite of numerous ppl posting both stern warnings and friendly advice on his talk page (which he has blanked). He has also uploaded a fairly large number of images with dubious copyright claims, of which some have been speedily deleted as blatant copyvios while most of the others have been tagged as possibly unfree, and currently up for discussion. The uploads, the edit warring and the tendency to treat all articles he edits as his own property makes me believe that there is a WP:CIR problem, something that a period of forced rest from en-WP might help solve, by making him realize that he can't go on the way he currently does. Thomas.W (talk) 09:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I warns and I know what he said. But User:Farhikht reverted all my edits in the page. I add to page talk about the inbox but he only reverted. I add polls. You can see the page now. It's not correct. In inbox, only candidates with major chance must be not all candidates. Their name must be complete not A.M.AAA!!!! Please warns to him not me. Tabarez (talk) 10:04, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I can add that there also seems to be a language problem, with User:Tabarez possibly not understanding the advice and the warnings he gets. Which also means that there is very little meaning in pointing him to policy pages and general information for new editors. Thomas.W (talk) 10:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I don't know English completely but why he reverted all my edits in other sections? I correct the names that are incomplete but he reverted. Tabarez (talk) 10:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Tabarez: I explained you many times, on your talk page as well as on the article's talk page. But the fact is that you ignore all these friendly advice and warnings. I can provide diffs of all these warnings, your edit wars, etc if it's necessary.Farhikht (talk) 11:48, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tabarez (talk · contribs) and Farhikht (talk · contribs) both blocked 24 hours for edit warring. I suspect this is problem is not over yet. Toddst1 (talk) 14:18, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Too little on User:Tabarez and too much on User:Farhikht IMHO, since it was Tabarez who caused the problems. For whatever my opinion is worth. Thomas.W (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

82.166.145.2

82.166.145.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Could someone try to get 82.166.145.2's attention to stop them copy pasting Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs articles into the encyclopedia please ? Sean.hoyland - talk 12:23, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm worried about more than just the copyright violation, they seem to be dumping a lot of opinion into articles that isn't sourced. I've blocked three months (static IP) to essentially force them to discuss the issues. Any admin is free to unblock without notification once they are clued in. Dennis Brown - - © - @ - Join WER 12:50, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

TheWikipreditor

Moved from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#TheWikipreditor. --Nathan2055talk - contribs 23:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I spotted some blatant advertising by TheWikipreditor (talk · contribs) and went back through his submissions. They had all been declined but I blanked most of them as near- or actual-blatant advertising and clear violations of the NPOV policy. Just wanted to give you all a heads up in case anyone asks about it. I've also raised issues about his username ("Wiki PR Editor"?) on his talk page. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good call on the blanking, I've just found at least two containing copyright violations. His username has already been reported to UAA but a block was declined by the patrolling admin. Pol430talk to me 09:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure why this has been moved here; the editor has stopped editing. Now that they have been 'educated' and gone away, perhaps they will one day return with a clearer idea of what Wikipedia is and is not. I don't see a pressing need for sanctions at this time. Pol430talk to me 11:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it looks like I jumped the gun on this one. Oops. We are discussing the concept of a script blacklist here, so that will help with these inexperienced reviewer issues. --Nathan2055talk - contribs 16:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

delete my AC ASAP

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Look yeah...

I don't belong here

So delete my AC ASAP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enderchestfrantic (talkcontribs) 17:35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wat r u waiting 4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enderchestfrantic (talkcontribs) 17:37, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Judging by their edits, this person has either WP:COMPETENCE issues or is not here for the betterment of the 'pedia. Can someone step in and give them the block they seem to be requesting? Heiro 17:40, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]


I just wan some RESPECT. Anyway, who was meant to understand those anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enderchestfrantic (talkcontribs) 17:42, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

AfC User's Rash Approvals

I have been active in #wikipedia-en-help for a little while now. At least 90% of the "editing help" questions are about the AFC process, and 90% of that is a familiar routine; the wait time, the COI issues (the vast majority of it is corporates or PR types, alas), WP:ADVERT, what's a good reference, why those aren't good references, why those references "do not adequately evidence the subject's notability".

So far, so good. A couple of days ago someone came in asking about what is now Eric_Sanicola; in the course of discussion, they (entirely predictably) proved to be Mr Sanicola, who had written the entire thing himself. (Not grounds for rejection itself, but not a good start). We gave him the usual spiel - references not reliable or mention him only in passing, notability is not infectious, etc. - but at the end of the discussion, User:Coolboygcp pops in for some other purpose and says "sure, I'll approve it"... and did.

This seems to me to be quite contrary to the reviewing instructions - and frankly, it seems a little futile to hang around in the help channel explaining the need for good references if someone else will come in and approve articles with junk references.

I attempted to discuss this with User:Coolboygcp on the same IRC channel the following day, to get completely stonewalled; a flat denial that there was anything wrong with the article. On checking further, their contribs consist of a series of AFC approvals many of which seem dubious, and from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Coolboygcp#Reverting_your_acceptance_of_Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation.2FBritish_Basketball_Association I am not the only editor to have an issue with them.

I'm seeking advice on what should be done next. Pinkbeast (talk) 10:28, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are certainly some highly questionable accepts among User:Coolboygcp's contribs. Apart from this, has the user been asked (on-Wiki) on be more careful and pointed in the direction of the reviewing guidelines? Pol430 talk to me 11:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No. I got a flat denial on IRC that there was any kind of problem. IRC does tend to make people terse, but if you agree that there is an issue, I would be grateful if you (or someone else) would bring it up on-Wiki; I appreciate a sanity check that I'm not overreacting. I observe the Eric Sanicola article has been CSDed. Pinkbeast (talk) 11:48, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you're overreacting, but I don't think the Eric Sanicola article is the worst of them (CSD has been declined). I'd rather someone else took them in hand, a third opinion won't hurt and I've already raised one editor's AfC work at AN/I today – I don't want to earn a reputation :P Pol430 talk to me 12:08, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, just wow.
I had no idea that there were this many editors interested in my contributions.
Additionally, when I read the quote: "I attempted to discuss this with Coolboygcp on the same IRC channel the following day, to get completely stonewalled:", I proceeded to laugh hysterically. I did no "stonewall" Pinkbeast, in any way whatsoever.
When I corresponded with him/her, I provided several reasons as to why I approved the Eric Sanicola article. I truly cannot comprehend why he/she would fabricate such an accusation and story about me. However, Pinkbeast has repeatedly threatened me on the mentioned IRC channel several time. Threats such as, "if you upload that image, I will delete it", and I will report you if you upload that image, as well as "I will report you for even thinking about creating that article". Additionally, he/she has repeatedly misinformed dozens of editors and users who come to the IRC channel in order to seek useful, and proper advice and help, who instead receive misinformation and incorrect instructions among other worrisome advice.
In fact, I would advise that Pinkbeast has exhibited very much more worrisome, and detrimental behavior and conduct. Coolboygcp (talk) 12:29, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
CB: Please feel free to show equivilant examples of Pinkbeast's disruptive behavior/content. Your behavior on the other hand causes problems, both for volunteers and the project as a whole. Your article approvals could cause editors and admins to have to edit the newly minted article and potentially have to go through the process of deleting it, having to sort out a policy morass, or potentially opens the foundation to liability. I'm saying this as nicely as possible, be extra careful with your approvals due to the fact that previous approvals have been questioned. Hasteur (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
These accusations are false. If there is any doubt about that, I would suggest contacting other users of that channel to see if their clients keep sufficient scrollback; I believe any of User:gwickwire, User:TheOriginalSoni, User:Huon, or User:Yngvadottir might do so. For the avoidance of doubt, I am completely happy to have any comment I addressed on-channel to User:Coolboygcp, or any comment to anyone similar to those above, made public.
The only discussion I have had with User:Coolboygcp about images is that I declined to upload a non-free image for them, responding that "I can't really see that there is much justification for using a nonfree image there" (direct quote) after quoting the Wikimedia Commons guidance on non-free images verbatim.Pinkbeast (talk) 13:28, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've lightly interacted with Coolboygcp in the past. The direct interaction between us was minimal, and if there was, I dont have a strong memory or a log of it. What I do carry is an impression of him trying to help others, though giving quite a few wrong advices. Based on only that impression I carry from there (which I think were based on some articles he was involved in), I think he might make a good reviewer if nudged properly. I think a mandatory adoption for him before he can continue reviewing articles might be sufficient.
Also, IMO IRC interactions have a lot better chance of actually generating a positive response and actually solving the problem than escalating the issue, which I've often found on-wiki interactions do. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Topic ban?

Looking through his declines, and his assurances that nothing is wrong, when many of his reviews clearly are, anyone willing to support an attempt to get a topic ban? Mdann52 (talk) 13:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked through some of his approvals and am the one that nominated the article that brought this up for CSD, which was declined, and subsequently nominated for AfD by myself, which at my last check had only one other person with a Delete nomination and no Keeps. Technical 13 (talk) 14:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think that would be best, but I'm not exactly unbiased here. Pinkbeast (talk) 14:21, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They're still at it. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Talent_Neuron&action=history is an approval of an AFC which took a whole five hours to get G11ed! Pinkbeast (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure IRC is the best way to communicate to people about what they might be doing wrong. Suggesting improvements or problems to people on their user talk pages leaves a record, which can be very helpful for anyone coming with subsequent problems. (It also eliminates pointless disputes like the above about what has been said.) DGG ( talk ) 17:48, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree; I just happened to see him pop up there while I was thinking about it anyway. Pinkbeast (talk) 15:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a topic ban from reviewing AfC submissions for a period of three months. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:48, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There comes a time perhaps where some reviewers should be asked to cease reviewing, at least for a while, such as in the past we have had to ask patrollers to stop patrolling new pages. A polite request rather than a formal topic ban may be sufficient. Like many meta areas, AfC is one that attracts many relatively new and/or inexperienced editors. This has always been a thorn in the side of the AfC process which often requires an admin level of knowledge of inclusion policies. I am absolutely not advocating that only admins should review the pages - there is backlog enough - but some campaign to attract truly experienced editors to the task would probably not go unrewarded. Nothing will change much however until the Foundation comes up with a decent landing page for new users / new, new-page creators. Concurring with DGG, transparecy is required for discussions and IRC is not followed by any means by everyone. Some of us do not use it at all. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:52, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We have one example here, an AFC approval which has now survived AFD. Before topic banning anyone we should be looking at enough diffs to form a pattern, and that pattern would need to indicate a problem. But if an editor's judgement has been born out by the article surviving AFD then it is the rest of the AFC community who have got this one wrong. Note I'm not proposing that Pinkbeast be topic banned from AFC simply for this one case where he declined an AFC submission that went on to pass AFD, I'm hoping that that is an isolated mistake and a learning experience. But there is something deeply wrong with the AFC process when it is regarded as controversial that someone approves an AFC that goes on to survive AFD. ϢereSpielChequers 11:16, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The article was improved enormously (by someone else) while the AFD process was going on; the version that was approved was essentially uncited and bears little resemblance to the one people were commenting on later in the AFD process. This is not the only example:
These are likely not the only ones, just what a quick trawl finds. I think a more compelling argument for opposing is that the editor appears to have stopped doing it anyway. Pinkbeast (talk) 13:41, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Er, addendum, I have never in my life declined (or accepted) an AFC submission. But if I had declined https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eric_Sanicola&oldid=551199625 I feel I would have been right to do so. Pinkbeast (talk) 13:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Copied to ANI here Hasteur (talk) 13:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think some of his approvals are questionable, however we need a more thorough investigation before doing anything rash. I have started a thread at the WP:ANI, and have copied our discussion here as well as adding my own comments. TheOneSean Talk to me 12:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have also informed everyone involved in this discussion via the ANI template. I hope this is due diligence - I even notified myself. TheOneSean Talk to me 12:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ummm... I think I said all I had to say in that AfC discussion and had thought this issue was closed. Echo me if you need clarification of what I had said, but otherwise I've nothing further to add at this time. (I'm not monitoring this discussion as I would rather stay away from ANI right now but will check back in a "few" days). Technical 13 (talk) 13:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - While there does seem to be a problem, its too premature to throwing around topic bans yet. There needs to be further discussion, and a longer pattern of troubling decisions, before that is warranted to be discussed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would like the editor to voluntarily stop approving AFC's right now, based on their poor history. If they refuse to do it, then I will 100% support a 3 month topic ban (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:27, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am in general against a topic ban on Coolboygcp because I think its neccesary that we try to approach him directly and help him understand the reviewer functions more before trying anything of this sort. We need more reviewers, and not less, and AGF, I believe, coolboygcp's intentions are good. Maybe we ought to suggest him to be adopted by another experienced reviewer before he actively reviews articles again? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose á la flying off the handle with this one. Basket Feudalist 13:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Coolboygcp does, judging by the diffs that have been posted here and his response here, not have the competence/maturity needed for the job, and should be stopped before he causes even more damage to WP. Thomas.W (talk) 13:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Like Bwilkins, I also think they can think of voluntarily stopping AFC review for sometime (2—3 weeks?), in addition they should be more careful in future, but, I don't support the "Topi ban" right now! --Tito Dutta (contact) 14:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with reluctance. I'm not seeing any sign of Coolboygcp realizing their acceptances were problematic, and I see recent creation of two articles of their own that have been deleted as non-notable, so I don't think they "get" the criteria yet. So rather than ask them - again - to hold off on accepting any more articles at AfC for a while, I think we'd better make that official: for a short time. They can always consult with someone else if they think an article is ready, and should be encouraged to do so. Making it official will send the message that they really do need to re-read and internalize the criteria (including, for example, checking for copyvio in the obvious places). Yngvadottir (talk) 16:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just AFC that's the problem...

Note That copyvio was made with the creation of the page back in 2007. [394] It is not the editor's fault. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Editor's competency is clearly insufficient to continue reviewing AfCs and their behaviour so far shows me that they don't seem to take well intentioned advice onboard. Indeed, their responses show a certain combativeness that leads me to suggest they won't stop voluntarily. This, taken into consideration with the evidence of introducing copyvios, makes a topic ban entirely justified IMO. Pol430 talk to me 19:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support topic ban per WP:CIR and the editor's demonstrated unwillingness to take good advice on board. Bishonen talk 19:35, 15 May 2013 (UTC).[reply]
  • Support a topic ban per Black Kite. For whatever reason, this is clearly not a user who has the judgement to participate in AFC at this time. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 09:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support topic ban per Black Kite. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 14:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support topic ban per Black Kite and Bishonen, IRWolfie- (talk) 10:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - If Arbcom requires intermediate steps of dispute resolution before considering the sanctioning of an editor, why do we so routinely see calls for sanctions here when nothing of an equivalent is considered. This is RFC/U material, in my opinion. My76Strat (talk) 10:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support topic ban per Black Kite. It is reasonable to insist that users who are involved in reviewing AFC contributors' work -- and giving advice to those contributors -- show an awareness of and willingness to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines. This user's record at AFC, the incidents described here, and the WP:BLP/WP:NPOV/WP:V violations I found when reviewing the user's recent edit history (diff) lead me to conclude that this user is not currently qualified to evaluate the main-space acceptability of other users' contributions. --Orlady (talk) 13:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Commenting so this unresolved discussion won't get archived. (The user hasn't edited in several days and this discussion has gotten quiet.) --Orlady (talk) 12:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support When I read the title "AfC User's Rash Approvals", I thought let me report coolyboygcp here and voila, whole discussion is about him. When I had noticed him sometime back, he not only approved "yet not ready" articles, but went ahead and gave "B" ratings on quality scale to the Stubs.--Vigyanitalkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 02:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- this started off as a dispute about afc & now it has turned into a "shitstorm" of "everybody-hates-coolboygcp".
first: the discussion has been split by what seems to be an unnecessary subsection, which makes it more difficult to tally opinions; that needs to get sorted out.
second: this started off as a discussion about coolboygcp's actions in afc, NOT as a "general-complaint" about said user. IF we want to convert it to a general complaint about the competence/merits/etc. of the user, then let's do so openly (rename/restart the topic, revise the suggested sactions accordingly). IF NOT, then let's please try to stay on-topic? right now the cat & the kitchen sink are competing for attention in this discussion, & i breathlessly await the next startling revelation from this user's sordid history.
whereas, if you look @ the user's overall contributions, it actually doesn't look like the antichrist has come to wikipedia (yet?)
third: some of the "excitement" in this discussion needs to cool down. there's nothing this user is doing that is vandalizing or irrevocably harming the project; we can afford to take a little bit longer, reaching a decision here. given the agitation & strong feelings of some of the commentors, perhaps we should seek a wider range of opinions within the community before reaching a decision?
(i'd also like to know how many people were "social-networked" into the discussion)
fourth: while i may not agree with some of the cited editorial decisions by coolboygcp, i think that a topic ban (or any other, broader sanction) would be an OVER-REACTION.
this started off as a squabble @ afc; absent some urgent problem, or persistent edit-warring, it shouldn't have been brought here.
there are plently of (you should pardon the expression) "hard-ass" editors @ wikipedia, who freely vote "no" to most new contributions & "yes" to most deletions; they get along just fine & seldom face sanctions for their actions, except for the most severe abuses.
this editor is perhaps a bit too permissive, but there's no "severe abuse" at hand & they shouldn't face any worse sanction than a comparable editor who is excessive "in the other direction". when we start to hand out tougher sanctions for "deletionist" zealotry, then we can revisit this case.
right now, there aren't enough "inclusionists" @ wikipedia & this editor isn't doing any harm. you'll note that (at least) one of the cited "rash approvals" that sparked this argument has survived DR.
that said; if anybody can build a real case for the actions of this editor being or becoming harmful (or at least egregiously incompetent) to the project, i'll reconsider my vote. right now it just looks like a local spat @ the afc sub-project, that's turned into a "pile-on" here.
i'll finish by c&p'ing my comment from the original discussion @ afc; other parts of which have already been copied above
"*Oppose with all due respect, simply not liking or not agreeing with another editor's decisions is insufficient grounds for a ban. Lx 121 (talk) 12:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)"[reply]
endrant

Lx 121 (talk) 13:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

post-script: as per somebody else's comment (either here or @ afc) it's not really good or useful to cite an irc chat, when nobody else has access to the text. Lx 121 (talk) 14:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Lx, I'd like to WP:TLDR that entire rant. But, since I read it, I can't do that. So I shall respond. This is not (in a major sense) an ideological debate between inclusionism and deletionism. (full disclosure: I am a precisionist.) This is an incident involving an AfC reviewer flying in the face of article guidelines. Also, you provided no evidence for your contention that there are editors who abuse the process the other way. And even if they did, that should not be evidence to end this dispute. Sanctions should be issued to the (theoretical) deletionist abusers as they should be issued here. TheOneSean Talk to me 22:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
oppose - I'm not sure that its' fair to ban someone simply for having a different threshold of notability than you. He isn't breaching policy exactly, He is simply approving articles that someone else could in good faith not approve. Both perspectives are reasonable. Personally, I would never even think to make something like Australian Construction Contracts which is frankly almost lethally tedious but the article is well cited and well referenced. If his standards are dramatically out sync or out of whack with 99% of the community's, that's a cause for mentorship or advice, not for just banning from a vital responsibility solely because of one potential slip up (re: Eric Sanicola, an article that actually looks pretty good despite the hyperbolic assertions made elsewhere). DrPhen (talk) 15:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support User is clearly far from ready from even providing input on AFC. I encountered this edit on Country Crock connected to the 'Sketti' article BlackKite mentioned a couple weeks back going into detail about the 'recipe' on that reality show and a highly inappropriate hypothesis that the product is mostly used by low-income households. I reverted it because it seemed ridiculous to mention it in a product article, especially as it could be 'made' just as well with generic margarine (though I'd also delete it on the margarine article just as well), and the financial wellness attack. The user's page is filled with deleted or AfD'ed articles. If they're not even ready to edit in article space on a regular basis (or in template space), they should be nowhere near approving articles for creation. Nate (chatter) 03:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]


An admin to close this topic ban proposal one way or the other, please. Also, as far as I can see, Lx 121 has two !votes in here. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:58, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Police identify suspect in New Orleans shooting
  2. ^ "Why Isn't New Orleans Mother's Day Parade Shooting a 'National Tragedy'?". African Globe. 2013-05-16.