위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive965

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알림판 아카이브
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기타 링크

ENG의 인신공격

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

EENGwt에서 다소 열띤 토론에서 몇 차례 인신공격을 가했다.토크 페이지 가이드라인.

그 토크 페이지에서 그들의 행동은 이전에 위키백과에서 논의되었다.관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive964#ENG의 WT 편집:TPG, 그러나 그 통지는 문제에 대해 모호하고 사용자 대화 페이지에서 논의하려는 시도가 없어 보였으며, 문제를 발견하지 못했기 때문에 적절히 종결되었다.

하지만 누군가 이전의 ANI 논의를 아이러니컬하게 되돌아보는 이 편집을 자세히 볼 수 있다.넌 절대 단서를 얻지 못할거야?WP를 위반하여 공격적이고 요구되지 않는 경우:NPAwp:civility.

User talk에서 이 문제를 논의하려고 시도했다.EEng#개인적인 논평, 그리고 응답은 문제의 편집에 아무런 문제가 없다는 것으로 보인다.

그래서 나는 이것에 대해 다른 의견을 갖고 싶다.안드레와 (대화) 2017년 9월 18일 12시 4분 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 ENG의 원래 논평이 "다른 사람들이 불필요하게 귀찮게 하는" 규모에 대한 3/10이라고 말하고 싶다.네가 여기로 가져오라고 한 그의 제안은 4/10이야. 다른 사람의 시간을 낭비하는 것이고 그도 그걸 알고 있으니까.당신이 실제로 여기로 가져온 것은 같은 UATOP 척도로 5/10 입니다.아니면 EENG의 제안과 일치하기 위해 4/10일 수도 있다.그런 피드백을 원하십니까?사소한 일에 진땀을 흘릴 필요는 없고, 사소한 불친절 사례도 일일이 과장할 필요는 없다. --Floquenbeam (대화) 12:30, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 내가 기대했던 답은 아니지만, 피드백에 감사해!당신은 ENG의 발언이 WP를 위반하는지 여부에 대해 실제로 말하지 않았다.NPAwp:civility, 그러나 당신은 그 질문에 대한 대답이 여기서 별로 중요하지 않다고 생각하나 보네, 그것은 공정한 진술인가?안드레와 (대화) 2017년 9월 18일 12시 43분 (UTC)[응답]
      • 정말 부탁할 적절한 관리자가 아니다.더 램블링맨 (토크) 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC) 12시 45분 (응답)
      • 좋은/나쁜 이분법보다는 NPA와 COMPY를 연속체로 생각하는 것이 더 유용하다고 생각한다.모든 비우호적인 진술이 "좋은" 혹은 "나쁜" 혹은 "허용" 또는 "폭행", "찬양할 수 있는" 또는 "차단할 수 있는" 것으로 분류될 필요는 없다.댓글이 거칠수록, 댓글이 잦을수록 더 안 좋다.나는 때때로 제한속도를 비유한다."35구역에서 37번 가는 게 교통법규 위반인가?"라고 묻는 거야?예스/아니오 질문 같지만 사실은 그렇지 않다. --플로퀸밤(토크) 13:00 (2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • "실마리를 잡아라"는 것은 내가 신발이라는 것과 같은 의미에서 인신공격이다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 12:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • @MPANTS(작업 중):누군가에게 "실마리를 얻는다"고 말하는 것은 그들을 막막하다고 부르는 것이다. 왜냐하면, 그들이 확실하지 않다면, 왜 실마리를 얻어야 하는 것일까?사람들의 모욕과 공격의 이런 완전히 우스꽝스러운 파싱이 많이 있었는데, 여기서 당신을 바보라고 부르는 것은 위반이지만 편집한 것을 바보라고 부르거나 바보같이 행동하는 것을 멈추라고 요구하는 것은 건설적으로 협력하는 좋은 방법이다.그것은 너무나 반직관적이지만 사람들을 멍청이라고 수동적으로 부를 권리를 위해 죽을 때까지 싸울 편집자들이 있다.2602:306:BC31:4AA0:480B:1D12:4102:2962 (대화) 14:31, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
헤이 IP: 단서가 필요한 것과 단서가 없는 것은 같은 것이 아니며, 어느 누구도 누군가를 얼간이라고 부르는 것과 전혀 같은 것이 아니다.이건 내 4살짜리 아이가 너에게 설명할 수 있는 종류의 것이다.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:27, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@MPANTS 근무 중 : "단서가 필요하지만 단서가 없는 것은 같은 일이 아니다."나는 그들이 단지 좋은 시도라고 말한 적이 없다.왜냐하면 그 중 어느 하나를 가지고 누군가를 묘사하는 것은 사람들을 모욕하는 것에 대한 정책을 위반하는 것이지만, 첫 번째(즉, "실마리를 얻는다")는 수동적인 공격적 비겁함인 반면, 두 번째(즉 "무결하다")는 것은 노골적이기 때문이다.그것만이 차이점이다.둘 다 공격이고, 둘 다 자신이 멍청하다고 생각하는 사람에게 말하는 방법이고, 반달만 빼고 모두를 포함하도록 되어 있는 상황을 개선하기 위한 노력에 협력할 수 있다고 생각하는 사람을 어떻게 대해야 하는지도 아니다.당신이 틀렸다는 것을 인정하기 전에 지옥은 얼어붙을 것이다, 그것은 바로 당신이다, 그래서 나는 사람들을 병신처럼 대하기 위한 그들의 노력에 그들의 아이(??)를 끌어들이는 종류의 사람과 다투는 덫에 빠지지 않도록 주의할 필요가 있다.2602:306:BC31:4AA0:480B:1D12:4102:2962 (대화) 17:10, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • EEng와 나는 예의에 관한 약간의 이력이 있다. 그리고 나는 그가 언제 그의 경솔함이 토론을 풍부하게 하는지에 대한 단서를 얻을 수 있다고 생각하지만, 그것이 교란적으로 불쾌할 때, 이 실에서 보고된 어떤 것도 분명히 그 모호한 선에 근접하지 않았다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:00, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
이 게시판에 'ENG'를 타이핑하는 편집자도 적지 않은데, 이들은 상황이 크게 해결된 후 자주 나타나 더 많은 드라마를 유발하는 것으로 반응한다.여기에서도 그렇다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:03, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
편집자 전원 불러!
다른 편집자들은 개들이 인신공격처럼 들린다는 것을 암시한다.더 크게 할까?EENG 17:18, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그렇게까지 예민하게 굴지 말라고 해도 되겠니, 아니면 이런 말도 안 되는 인신공격으로 보도될까?니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 14:36, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고 어쩌면 여러분은 이런 종류의 댓글을 여기저기 붙이고 일상적인 드라마 페스티발을 쌓는 것보다 상황을 악화시키는 데 더 잘 할 수도 있을 것이다.안부:)GodricOn leave 날개뼈 14:52, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
이런 엉터리 보도를 접대하는 것이 내 책임인 강의는 놓쳤을 것이다.의 논평은 또 다시 탈선만 할 뿐이다.혹시 네가 원하는 충고를 들어야 할 것 같아?니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC) 15:00[응답]
@ENG, 본래의 질문에 답하기 위해서, 당연히 아니지. -Roxy the dog. 15:07, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

파이 페이지

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 봇이 십진 변환을 자동으로 참조했다고 생각하는데 그것은 틀릴 수 있다.계산 중 3.1428 — 49.19.114.83 (대화) 06:42, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답] 앞에 서명되지 않은 코멘트가 추가됨

  • 어떤 구체적인 내용을 말씀하시는지 잘 모르겠는데 3.1428 = 22/7로 잘 알려진 파이 근사치 입니다.2017년 9월 17일 (UTC) 06:48, 회신, Pi? power~enwiki (π, ν)에 관한 내용을 언급한다고 가정해, Talk:Pi에서의 코멘트를 확대해 주시겠습니까?
나도 맥락은 잘 모르겠지만 22/7은 3.1428이 아니라 3.1429야 --S Philbrick (Talk) 21:28, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 이 논의는 ANI의 영역 밖이라고 믿는다.ENG 22:38, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
서클 바깥을 말하는 거지?레거시pac (대화) 22:52, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그냥 배고파 죽겠어.음, 파이.IDegon 출신 John (토크) 04:01, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Instaurare별 항목 금지 위반 반복

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

인스타라레(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 차단 사용자 · 블록 로그)남부 빈곤법센터(反)LGBT 혐오 단체로 지정한 단체 리스트이번 편집을 통해 LGBT 관련 기사에 대한 그의 주제 금지를 또다시 위반했다.그는 이전에 여기여기 문서화된 이 주제 금지령을 위반했다.이 주제 금지는 어느 시점에서는 인스타라어가 이를 어기는 것을 멈추도록 이빨을 길러야 한다.- MrX 03:07, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

4~5년 전 일이 기억나다니 놀랍군 난 몰랐으니까인스타라레 (대화) 03:17, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
말도 안 돼.- 미스터X 03:28, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
아? 인스타라레 (대화) 03:44, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
@Instaurare:AfD가 계속 진행 중이므로 더 이상 언급하지 말고 WP에 주제 금지에 대해 공식 항소를 제기해 주시겠습니까?A, 어떤 것이 여전히 제자리에 기록되고 있는가?알렉스 시Talk 04:12, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 AfD의 개시가 처음부터 부적절했기 때문에 "무작동"으로 종결했다.스노우가 더 많은 시간을 준 결과였을 거라고 생각했어.에버그린피르 (대화) 04:34, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
@alex Sihi : 누군가 주제 금지를 위반하고, 그것을 집행하는 대신 항소를 제기하는 것을 추천한다?그건 마치...어울리지 않는니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 04:46, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
나도 그 점에 동의해, 이전에 위반이 있었던 적이 있고, (어쨌든 상관없는) 금지령을 편집자가 잊어버렸다고는 생각하지 않아, 블록이 순서대로 되어 있다고 믿는다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 05:10, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 동의하지 않지만, 2012년에 제정된 주제 금지와 2013년에 제정된 이전의 위반 가능성에도 불구하고 공식적으로 시행된 적이 없는 주제 금지 조치에 대해서는, 이 편집자의 다음 행동을 위해 계속 머무르고 싶다.한편, @HJ Mitchell: 더 많은 정보를 얻으려면.알렉스 시Talk 05:26, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
시행되지 않았더라도 지금은 시행되어야 한다. --Tarage (대화) 06:05, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
사람들이 그것을 잊어버릴 때까지 무기한 제재를 단순히 "기다릴 수 없다"고 할 수는 없다.최소한 HJM으로부터 결핵이 풀렸거나 소진되었다는 사실을 밝혀내지 않는 한 편집자는 아직 유효하다는 것을 상기시켜주고, 으로 아무리 장래에라도 어떤 위반이라도 상당한 차단을 맞을 것이라는 엄중한 최후 경고를 받아야 한다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 06:27, 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
@My Ken을 넘어서: 당연하게도, 최종 경고가 내려졌다.알렉스 시Talk 07:00 2017년 8월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

이 편집자의 행동 패턴에 대한 추가 평가를 위해 여기 남겨두겠다: 나이얀케스51의 SPI(이름 변경 전 그의 계정, 위키백과:중재/요청/사례/낙태("NYANKEs는 전쟁터 사고방식을 암시하는 교환에 참여했다")경고로는 충분하지 않다고 생각하지만, 해리 미첼의 말을 보고 싶다.모조워커 (대화) 09:09, 2017년 9월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

해리 미첼에버그린피어(토크) 19:25, 2017년 9월 11일 (UTC)[응답하라]
HJ Mitchell ping - 사용자 페이지 리디렉션 ping이 제대로 작동하는지 모르겠다; 이것은 그의 실제 계정이다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:36, 2017년 9월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
얼마나 많은 빛을 흘릴 수 있을지 모르겠어.나의 주된 관여는 5년 전이었고 나는 인스타라레와 내가 최근에 이야기한 적이 없다고 생각한다.처음 민원을 제기할 때는 법률 제정 이후로는 불만이 지속되지 않았던 것 같아 경고와 조언이 타당했을 텐데 ANI에서 첫 번째 민원이 논의되는 동안 또 다른 위반으로 블록을 다투는 것은 보이지 않는다.HJ 미첼 페니 생각은? 2017년 9월 12일 15시 59분 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 차단됨 - 나흘 전, 인스타라어동성 결혼에 대한 버지니아 결혼 수정안을 옹호하는 것을 거부한 마크 헤링 버지니아 검찰총장을 편집했다.이 편집은 과거 토론에서 충분히 설명되어 온 주제 금지의 "광범위하게 해석된" 범위에 속하며, 인스타라레는 2주도 채 전에 알렉스 시로부터 경고를 받았다(위 링크).편집이 건설적이었지만 금지된 수단이 금지되었고, 경고와 항소하라는 지시를 받은 직후 제한 범위 내에서 편집하는 것은 명백한 위반이다.그것은 또한 그들의 첫 경고도, 항소할 첫 번째 조언도, 첫 번째 위반도 아니다.커뮤니티는 인스타라어가 아무리 접선적으로 ("광범위하게 해석") 연관되어 있더라도 위키피디아에 관한 LGBT 관련 주제에서 벗어나기를 강력히 원한다는 뜻을 밝혔으며, 여기에는 정서가 변했다는 징후가 없다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 13:36, 2017년 9월 12일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이상한 존베넷 램지 기물 파손?

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

웰컴 투 뉴욕(Welcome to N.H.K)에서 일종의 템플릿 파괴 행위가 벌어지고 있는 것 같은데 어디가 문제인지 알 수가 없다.자갈레호^^ 00:57, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

사실, 신경 쓰지 마.그러나 여기에 어떤 맥락이 있다.자갈레호^^ 00:58, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
네 문제야. -- The Videwalker 03:03, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자별 중단 편집:가디타노23, 차단을 보증한다(아니면 아주 최소한의 훈계)

안녕하십니까, User를 대신하여 내가 매우 거만한 편집이라고 생각하는 것에 대해 조명해 보고자 한다.카디타노23은 2017년 카탈로니아 공격에 대한 토론 페이지와 기사 자체에서 소개되었다.그(그의 사용자 이름은 남성적이다)는 완벽하게 객관적이고 참조된 단락을 지웠다.그는 2주 전에 그것에 대해 이의를 제기하지 않았지만, 나는 그가 그것에 주의를 집중시켰다는 것을 안다. 왜냐하면 그는 그 당시 그가 저질렀던 중대한 실수에 대해 (나에 의해) 정정되어야 했기 때문이다(토론에서 볼 수 있듯이, 그의 단락이 2017년 9월 5일에 서명된 것을 보라).

내가 이것을 읽는 모든 사람들에게 감동을 주고 싶은 것은, 이 사용자가 잠재적으로 대립적인 언어와 무거운 정치적 사설을 사용한다는 것이다: 그는 다른 사용자들의 문장을 "실리"라고 부르고, 가디언 기사를 "이디오틱"이라고 부르고, 내가 말했듯이, 내가 주관적인 정치적 이유라고 생각하는 것 때문에 단락 전체를 지운다.와는 대조적으로 사용자와의 논의:핀크레테는 토크 페이지에서 볼 수 있듯이 완벽하게 문명화되어 있다.9월 15일, 16:20 이전 날짜는 내가 어떻게 될지 모르니까 읽어줘.

카탈루냐 주민투표에 대한 긴장감은 며칠 전 다른 토론에서 내가 이미 예측한 바와 같이 매우 높지만, 우리 모두는 객관적으로 되기 위해 노력해야 한다.그리고 나는 가디타노23씨가 백과사전을 짓기 위해 이곳에 왔다는 것을 내 마음으로는 믿지 않는다.하지만 나는 틀렸다는 것을 증명받고 싶다.나는 이미 이 ([1])과 이 조사 기자들이 폭로한 최근의 뉴스에 대해 몇 개의 언급된 단락을 준비했지만, 우선은 정중하게 가디타노23 문제를 다룰 필요가 있다.내가 하지 않을 것은 단지 최근의 뉴스에 정신이 나간 누군가와 편집 전쟁을 시작하는 것이다.위키피디아를 만들려고 왔어.감사합니다.코드인콘누 (대화) 15:25, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

코드인콘누 편집전쟁은 고사하고 논의조차 하지 않았다!!이것은 ANI를 사용하는 방식이 아니다.또한 너는 내 토크 페이지에 나에게 경고해야 해!다른 편집자가 나에게 이것에 대해 경고해야 했다.멋지지 않아.가디타노23 (대화) 15:33, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

위에 User_talk를 쓴 후 몇 초 후에 나는 당신의 토크 페이지에 당신에게 경고했었습니다.가디타노23번길#_당신의_정보를 위해...가디타노를 시작하는 최선의 방법은 아니야!코드인콘누 (대화) 15:36, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
Gaditano는 심지어 원격으로 허가할 수 있는 어떤 것도 하지 않았고 이것은 가능한 빨리 종결되어야 한다.가 생각하기에 그 기사의 '재작' 부분이 비 스페인어/카탈란어적 시각으로 도움이 될 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 그 기사의 '재작동' 부분이 비지역 독자들에게 매우 관심거리가 적은 문제들로 주제에서 벗어나게 될 위험에 처해 있다고 생각한다.나는 카탈루냐 당국과 그들을 거세하는 다른 사람들을 칭찬하는 출처들이 있다고 확신한다, 나는 그것이 어느 쪽이 우세할 것인지 그리고 그것이 국민투표 AT ALL에 영향을 미칠 것인지 그리고 '공격 기사'에 어떻게 포함되어야 하는지에 대해서는 아직 확실한 패턴이 있다고 확신하지 않는다.핀크리트 (대화)17:14, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
핀크리트, 자네도 그 토론에 참여했기 때문에 자네를 언급했었지 하지만 이 토론의 어떤 관련도 자네와 관련되지 않았어제발 관리자들이 이 일을 처리하도록 내버려 두시오. 그리고 끼어들지 말고 그들의 관심을 독일 문제로부터 돌리려고 노력하는 것을 삼가시오.가디타노는 사용자들의 문장이나 신문 기사를 언급하기 위해 모욕적인 언어를 사용해왔고, 그가 자신의 개입을 읽고 있는 누구에게도 그가 편집하고 토론장처럼 토크 페이지를 사용하고 있었다는 것은 명백하다.내가 예의 바르게 행동하고 이 문제가 해결될 때까지 다시는 그 단락을 메인 페이지에 추가하려고 하지 않는다는 것에 감사하고, 부디 이 문제에 관여하지 마십시오.코드인콘누 (대화) 17:29, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 내용상의 논쟁, 행동상의 문제가 없다고 본다.@CodeInconnu: 매우 특별한 경우를 제외하고는 누가 여기에서 토론에 기여할 수 있는지 지시할 수 없다.티데롤스 18:08, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Tide rolls: 단락을 "실리"라고 부르거나 "이디오틱"이라고 언급하는 것은 그것이 만족하는 것만큼 행동의 문제인 것이다.그렇지 않으면 나도 같은 행동을 할 거야, 가디타노와 어떤 관계인지 볼까?코드인콘누 (대화) 2017년 9월 15일 18:12 (UTC)[응답]
너의 평가는 틀렸다.편집자들을 바보 또는 바보라고 부르는 것은 행동의 문제다.사람들은 편집된 내용이 어리석거나 바보같은 것에 대한 설명을 바랄 것이다; 그것은 확실히 토론에 도움이 될 것이다.티데롤스 18:17, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 당신은 내가 편집자들의 기고문헌과 참조문헌에 마치 내일이 없는 것처럼 어리석거나 바보 같은 표시를 할 수 있고, 누구의 훈계도 받지 않을 수 있다고 말하는 겁니까?그것이 이 토론에 대한 당신의 지적인 기여인가?
마지막 문장에 대해서는 전적으로 동의했다.언급된 설명은 아직 오지 않았지만(잠재적인 "배트필드"에 대한 근거 없는 언급은 제외하지만, 카디타노는 내가 그 단락을 다시 추가하기 전에 그의 지적 이유를 제공하는 것을 환영한다.지금까지 지적 사유는 제시되지 않았다.스페인에 대한 국제적인 조사 때문에 긴장하고 있을 수도 있지만, 우린 공평하게...코드인콘누 (대화) 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC) 18:25 [응답]
토론은 없다; 행정적인 주의를 요하는 어떤 행동도 보이지 않았다.티데롤스 18시 30분, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
코드인콘누, 나는 당신이 나를 이름 지었기 때문에 그리고 내가 적극적으로 페이지를 '관찰'하고 있기 때문에 둘 다 관여하고 있다.나는 당신이 ANI 과정을 남용하고 있다고 믿는다. 당신이 정말로 대화에 참여하지 않고 관리자 지원을 받기를 바라며 여기에 온다는 것이다. 그것은 일어나지 않을 것이다.나는 Gaditano의 의견에 대체로 동의하며, 전체 '재작동' 부분이 점점 주제에서 벗어나고 있다고 생각하므로, 당신은 소수자에 속한다.네가 RfC를 하는 것을 환영해. 그리고 나는 다른 편집자들의 시선을 끌려고 위에서 노력했다.너는 여기 처음 와본 사람이고, 이 주제 영역 밖에서 거의 수정을 하지 않은 것 같아.핀크리트 (대화) 2017년 9월 15일 19:13 (UTC)[응답]
핀크리트, 이 글을 쓰기 전에 신중하게 생각해 본 적이 없는 것 같은데.
나는 너에게 초점을 맞추고 싶지 않았지만 지금 네가 내 관심을 구걸하고 있으니, 그 토크 페이지에서의 너의 모든 토론은 사실로서 전달된 가정, 족제비 같은 표현, 그리고 네가 이 싸움에서 개를 키우거나, 아니면 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 온 것이 아니라고 믿게 한 편협한 아둔함으로 가득 차 있었다는 것을 상기시켜 주겠다.가디타노).너도 여기서 가정을 하고 있어. 예를 들어, 내가 비위를 맞추러 왔다고 가정해봐. (티이드 롤스는 행동에는 꼬리표를 붙이는 것은 괜찮지만 사람은 괜찮다고 말하니까, 네 가정에 바보라는 꼬리표를 붙이는 것은 괜찮다고 생각해.)가장 중요한 것은, 국민투표를 언급하지 않는 것에 대해 계속 빈정거리고 있지만, 여러분이 손대지 않은 편집은 국민투표를 언급하는 것이었다.그러므로 당신의 편집은 파괴적일 뿐만 아니라 모순되기도 했다.그리고 바보, 바보 등.
내가 이 주제 외에 많은 편집을 하지 않았다는 사실은 내가, 혹은 다른 누군가가 당신에게 설명을 해야 한다면 당신 일이 될 수 있을 것이다.잠깐만, 난 몰라.그래서 거기.
그리고 마지막으로, 어떤 장소에 새로 온다는 것은 때때로 그것에 대해 늙고 관점을 잃는 것보다 더 건강하다.일반적으로 말해서, 어떤 사람이 공공영역을 그들 자신의 사적인 영역으로 착각할 때, 그것은 보통 그들을 다루기 위해 훈련된 사람들과 직접 대면해야 하는 더 깊은 문제들의 반영이다.특별히 누구를 보고 있는 것은 아니다.코드인콘누 (대화)20:01, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 오늘날 세 명의 편집자들은 이 자료가 주제에서 벗어난다는 것에 동의하고 삭제했다.네 말에 따르면 모두 틀렸어!Sp/Cat의 긴장에 대해 더 많은 것을 제거해야 한다.핀크리트 (대화) 21:01, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 현재의 정치 상황이 어느 정도 형성될 때까지 보류되었다.그냥 도움을 구하고 위키를 애드호크 치료로 쓰지 말아줘.요양원에서 찾을 수 있는 더 좋은 오락거리가 있다.코드인콘누 (토크) 07:25, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

좌절된 위키콘트롤은 무지로 법적 위협을 가한다.

위키콘트롤법적 위협가한 것으로 보인다.크리스 트라우트먼 (대화) 15:47, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

외설스럽다.그들의 다른 행동(편집 전쟁, 인신공격)도 나빴다.GABgab 15:54, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 몇 가지 근본적인 오해를 바로잡는 코멘트를 제공했다.보잉! 제베디(토크) 16:22, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

뭔가 이상한 것

안녕하십니까, 여러분.나는 이곳이 이것을 보고하기 위한 정확한 장소인지 확신할 수 없고 다른 곳으로 나를 안내할 수 있다.그러나 WP에서는 매우 이상한 일이 벌어지고 있다.모기로테야페이지가 어떤 식으로든 납치된 것 같군뉴욕액츄리(토크)17:15, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

(비관리자 논평) CSS 파일이 엉망이 될 수도 있었던 것 같은데 만약 그렇다면, 이것은 단순한 반달리즘 편집이 아니라 해킹이 될 것이다. 나는 그들이 악성코드를 포함하고 있는 경우, 엉망이 된 페이지의 링크를 클릭하지 말 것을 제안한다.보고해줘서 고마워.토네이도 추적자 (토크) 17:28, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
무엇이든지 간에, 지금은 고쳐졌다.이와 관련하여, 어떤 템플릿 텍스트가 오는지 알 수 있는 좋은 방법이 있는가?골든링 (토크) 17:39, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
무슨 뜻이야?토네이도 추적자 (토크) 17시 40분, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 스페셜에서 만들 수 있는 링크를 강력히 추천한다.기여 페이지. --zzuzz(talk) 17:43, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 만약 내가 이것을 정확히 이해한다면, 누군가가 "벤처"라는 템플릿을 밝은 색상의 공격 페이지로 바꾸었고, 그리고 나서 그 템플릿을 사용한 어떤 페이지에도 표시되었는가?토네이도 추적자 (토크) 17:46, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 그런 것 같다.제 말은 모든 템플릿이 대체될 경우 wikitext가 무엇일지 볼 수 있는 방법을 갖는 것이 유용할 것이라는 것이었습니다. 어떤 템플릿에서 어떤 비트가 나왔는지 보여주는 HTML 코멘트였습니다.골든링 (토크) 17:55, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 천천히 그러나 확실히 그것을 할 수 있는 오프사이트 도구를 작업하고 있다.가끔 귀찮게 해서 다시 일을 시작하도록 해라.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

레인지 블록?

최근 2602:306:33C5:1860:409:8219:47AC:C06D(토크 · 기여), 2602:306:33C5:1860:F9D3:C1E1:ECA8:83F(토크 · 기여), 2602:306:33C5:1860:D877:518F:F573:110D(토크 · 기여), 2602:306:33C5:1860:4CEC:BD47:3AFB:629A(토크 · 기여) 및 2602:306:33으로 시작하는 유사한 IPC5:1860은 팝콘의 노래 부르기라고 불리는 어린이 만화책의 즐거운 언급들을 많은 기사에서 "스팸플릿"해 왔다.모든 사람이 같은 사람이라는 것은 꽤 확실하고, 경우에 따라서는 3RR을 바이오밍한 경우도 있다.IP6에 대해서는 아무것도 모르고 레인지 블록에 대해서는 거의 알지 못하며, 어떻게 하면 보이는 경고를 줄 수 있는지도 알 수 없다.부당한 부수적 피해 없이 그 사람을 차단할 수 있을까?데오르 (대화) 2017년 9월 15일 22시 30분 (UTC)[응답]

이 범위에 의한 최근 편집된 FYI는 Special:기부금/2602:306:33C5:1860::/64.그들은 대부분 도움이 되지 않는 것 같고, 과거에 범위 차단되었다./64 레인지 블록은 적절해 보일 수 있는데, 다른 것은 무용지물이 될 수 있기 때문이다.mw: 참조도움말:블록 범위/이에 대한 자세한 내용은 IPv6. --Jules (Mrjulesd) 23:48, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 2602:306:33을 사용하고 있다.C5:1860::/64 연중무휴.
전날 아포크릴타로스가 내린 최종 경고브링크스테르넷이 지목했다.경고가 있는 다른 대화 페이지도 있다.
브링크스터넷은 에게 다른 범위인 2602:306:33으로 경고했다.C5:2C90:::/64 작년에도 여러 번. 다른 예.또한, 이것은 흥미로워 보인다.
브링크스터넷, VCV가 생각나는데 이걸 다른 사람으로 인식하겠어?
Berean Hunter (talk) 00:25, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 차단하기 전에 몇 가지 확인 중이었는데 말콤xl5는 일주일 동안 이미 외설적이었고 좋은 시작인 것 같다.
    Berean Hunter (talk) 00:42, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
일주일간 외설?토네이도 추적자 (토크) 00:44, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그래! "...그리고 나는 그 점에 있어서 만장일치야.."
베레안 헌터(토크) 19:33, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
1주일 동안 차단된 것이 베레앙 헌터가 말하고자 했던 것이다.7월 31시간 블록에서 한 단계 올라섰지만 파행적 편집이 재개되면 더 긴 블록이 보증될 수 있다. --말콤xl5 (토크) 00:48, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 전에 이 파괴적인 사기꾼을 다룬 적이 있다. (즉, 편집된 내용을 모두 되돌리고 경고한 적이 있다.나는 그것의 노력을 방해하기 위해 레인지 블록의 권고에 강력히 동의한다.적어도 IP의 편집 이력에 "야키티 야크"에 대한 언급이 포함되어 있다면, RETURN Everything, RETURN Everything.---Fink (토크) 00:52, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
"야키티 야크"를 찾기 위해 편집 필터를 설계하는 것이 유용할까?토네이도 추적자 (토크) 01:20, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
말대꾸하지 마라.EENG 01:36, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
논의 중인 IP6 범위는 확실히 많은 부분이 보이스캐스트 반달의 작품인 것 같다.내 생각에 일주일간의 블록은 너무 짧다.어쨌든 구제불능의 사람은 여기서 혼란을 계속하기 위해 또 다른 입구를 찾을 것이다.Binksternet (대화) 03:46, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
찾아줘서 고마워.나는 또한 그 블록에서 더 긴 시간이 보장된다는 것에 동의한다.아논의 기여로 미루어 볼 때, 그것은 다른 누구도 아닌 그 사람에 의해 공정하게 전용된 것으로 보인다.그가 마지막 사정거리에 있었던 시간과 이 일에 얼마나 오래 있었는지에 근거해 볼 때, 나는 그의 ISP가 1월 초에서 중순에 그를 재지정할 것으로 예상할 것이다.
베레안 헌터(토크) 19:33, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

IPv6 Rangeblock 요청 - 2001:5b0:2a67:158:*

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

마이 리틀 포니 관련 반달리즘이 이 범위에서 비롯되었다(2001:5B0:2A67:158:*).그들은 어떤 이유에서인지 에페스트리아 왕국을 망쳐 놓자고 주장하는 것 같다(예: [3], [4], [5], [6]).반달리즘을 막기 위해 레인지 블록을 요청한다.몇 페이지 보호를 사용할 수도 있지만 RPP에서 요청을 했다.에버그린피르 (대화) 22:19, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

리치333은 24시간 동안 활성 IP를 차단했다(고맙다).며칠 전부터 레인지블록 요청 중인데.명백한 파괴 행위/파괴 행위.에버그린피르(토크) 22:33, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
2001:5B0:2A67:158:::/64 막힘 2주.케이티talk 01:06, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워, 크라카토아 케이티.이것은 닫을 수 있다.~오슈와~(talk) (contribs) 2017년 9월 19일 03:56 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

주노폴로

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:주노폴로는 프로모션 전용 WP:SPA 해당 사용자:Fuhgetthabout it and I have cleaning after. 푸게트와 나는 청소를 끝냈다그들은 지금 우리 둘의 요청대로 그들의 추정 COI/지급액을 공개하는 대신 나의 강연 [7]에 욕설을 게시하고 있다.그들의 WP는 다음과 같다.그들이 더 많은 것을 방해하기 전에 여기서 시간이 끝나야 한다.와이드폭스;토크 22:26, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나와 SwisterTwister 사이의 공식적인 상호 작용 금지 요청

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

7월 이후, 스위스터 트위스터는나와 ANI에 참여했던 거의 모든 편집자들이 나의 기고를 의도적인 목표로 삼았다고 보았기 때문에 ANI 토론 이후 나와의 상호작용을 중단하라고 충고했다.불행하게도, 그는 이 충고를 듣지 못했고, 최근에는 거의 설명하지 않은 채 태그를 제거하는 형태로 위키백과를 다시 시작했는데, 이것은 그가 나의 기여를 "따라하고 있다"는 것을 분명히 한다.

그는 일부 경우에 있어서 반론적이고 둔감해지기 위해 최선을 다하고 있는 것처럼 보인다. 이것은 그가 단지 "적용할 수 없다"고만 말했을 뿐, 그의 우려를 상세히 설명하지 않는 그의 행동의 전형적인 사례다.일회성 사건?좋아, 규칙적으로?괜찮지 않아.여기 또 다른 사례가 있다: '잘못된 시간'이라는 기사는 내가 G11을 삭제하기 위해 태그가 붙었고, 내가 완전히 모순된 주장이라고 기억할 수 있는 것(관리자가 아니기 때문에 디프에 접근할 수 없다)으로 재빨리 되돌아가서 내가 다시 태그가 붙었고 이후 RHaworth에 의해 삭제되었다.비록 이 행동이 주로 나를 향한 것이지만, 그는 다른 사용자들에게 예를 들어 이런 종류의 일을 했다.내가 현재 AfD'd하고 있는 페이지의 이력에서 미결 사건 몇 건을 볼 수 있다.그는 때때로 다소 일관성 있는 편집 요약(이것이것)으로 내가 붙인 태그를 되돌렸다.나와 SwisterTwister의 삭제된 기부를 모두 볼 수 있는 관리자들은 이후에 삭제된 유사한 사례들을 많이 볼 수 있을 것이다.

나 역시 완벽하게 행동하지 않았다.나는 최근 한 AfD에서 그의 애드호미넴 주장 사용과 관련하여 Swister Twister에 대해 약간 냉담했지만, 나는 이 체계적인 격언을 멈출 필요가 있다고 생각한다.빠른 삭제에 대한 내 이력이 완벽하다고 주장하는 것도 아니지만, 이 스위스터트위스터, 이것, 이것, 이것, 이것과 같은 것들은 나와 관련이 없는 것으로써, 스위스터트위스터가 기껏해야 이 분야에서 진부한 기록을 가지고 있다는 것을 보여준다(참고, 위키피디아의 한 활동적인 위키피디아가 비록 훨씬 더 와이드프르긴 하지만 유사한 것에 대한 신속한 삭제 태그의 사용을 금지하는 주제를 가지고 있다).얼간이 같은 행동

최근, 나는 스위스터 트위스터가 나를 더 이상 괴롭히지 않기를 바라며 관리자들에게 신속한 삭제 태그 제거를 제한하는 제안을 내놓았다.나는 정말 이런 일이 일어나길 원하지 않았지만 유감스럽게도 그것이 남은 유일한 선택이다.

그러므로 나는 나와 스와스터트위스터 사이에 공식적인 쌍방향 상호 작용 금지를 요청하고 있다.내가 할 수 있는 힘과 시간이 있다면 (ST에서 나에게로) 일방적 금지를 성공적으로 주장할 수 있을 것이라고 생각하지만, "무책임"의 결의가 더 빠르고 모든 사람에게 눈물을 덜 흘릴 것이다.스위스터트위스터는 나와의 문제들에 대해 시민적인 논의를 하고 싶지 않다고 분명히 말했고 그래서 나는 이것이 상대적으로 논쟁의 여지가 없는 요청이라고 생각한다.나는 다른 사람들의 행동에 거의 동요하지 않고 높은 유지보수를 하고 싶지는 않지만, 지난 ANI에서 그를 거의 부머로 만들었던 SwisterTwister의 행동이 나를 AfC 프로젝트에서 떠나게 만들었고, 그의 후속 행동이 나를 그 프로젝트에서 완전히 손을 떼게 하는 것을 정말로 원하지 않는다.

DrStrauss talk 19:46, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 빈칸 채우기: 잘못된 시간에 A7/G11이 태그가 붙었고, SwisterTwister는 Shows는 A7 기준에서 면제되며, 기사는 "분명히 명확하지 않은" 것이 아니라는 태그를 되돌렸다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 20:26, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
확실히 아무도 당신이 프로젝트를 완전히 떠나는 걸 보고 싶어하지 않아. 그리고 만약 당신이 이것이 유일한 선택이라고 믿는다면, 나는 그것을 지지할 수 밖에 없어.만약 ST가 위의 IBAN에 동의하는 것으로 여기서 응답한다면, 나는 더 이상의 논의가 필요하지 않다고 생각한다. 2017년 9월 18일 NoTime 19:52 (UTC)가 있다[응답]
번째 예를 들자면, 완벽히 맞았어.기사에는 신속한 삭제 후보가 아님을 확인하는 믿을 만한 출처가 담겨 있었다.왜 어떤 특정한 편집자가 백과사전을 그렇게 명백하게 적용할 수 없는 삭제 후보로부터 보호하는 것을 막아야 하는가?나는 전에 스와이스터트위스터와 언쟁을 한 적이 있고, 나와는 무관하기 때문에 여기서 진술하지 않을 그의 일반적인 역량에 대해 나만의 의견을 가지고 있지만, 이 경우 그는 완벽하게 옳았다. 86.17.222.157 (대화) 20:01, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 말하고 싶은 것은, 편집 요약본 "적용할 수 없음"은, 다른 유사한 사건들과 함께, 나와 다른 사용자들을 향한 그의 위키백과의 일반적인 성격에 도움이 되지 않고 증명된다는 것이다.내 말은 이건 이제 그만하고 IBAN만이 할 수 있는 유일한 방법이라는 거야.나는 항상 실수를 한다. 이것은 그의 능력에 대한 문제가 아니라 그의 기질에 대한 문제다.DrStrauss talk 20:10, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
편집 요약 "적용 불가"는 빠른 삭제를 위해 태그를 지정할 때 당신이 제공한 것보다 한 단어 더 많은 설명이었습니다.그리고 그나저나, afd 토론에서 주장한 대로 그 기사에서 인용된 책 출처를 정말 읽고 이해하셨습니까?미안하지만, 선의에는 한계가 있다. 왜냐하면 그 진술이 거짓이었다는 증거가 분명하기 때문이다.이 실타래는 스와스터트위스터가 한 그 어떤 일보다도 이 기사를 삭제해 달라는 당신의 고집으로 인해 당신의 무능함이 드러난 것에 상당히 근거한 것이다. 86.17.222.157 (대화) 20:36, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
응, 난 가끔 무능해. 우리 모두 무능해.AutoWikiBrowser와 망쳐버렸어.내가 페이지를 잘못 작성했다.나는 정직의 이점을 깨닫고, ST가 어떤 것에 옳고 내가 틀렸으면 토스를 할 수 없었기 때문에 그들을 소유하는 데 문제가 없다.이건 그 AFD랑 아무 관련이 없어 ST가 조직적으로 내 기부금을 스토킹해서 종종 잘못 겨냥하는 거야닥터스트라우스 2017년 9월 18일 23:02 (UTC)[응답]
불완전한 문장을 완성해 주시겠습니까?안타깝게도, 그는 충고를 듣지 못했고, 최근에 거의 태그를 제거하지 않는 형태로 그의 위키리크링을 재개했다.사건의 실체에 대해서는 피청구인으로부터 연락이 올 때까지 판단을 유보한다.알렉스엥(TALK) 20:22, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
설명 같은 거.DrStrauss talk 20:29, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 별 설명 없이 태그를 제거하거나..?뭐야? 왜 이빨 뽑는 거야?원래 글에서 문장을 완성하십시오.알렉스엥(TALK) 20:36, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼 난 많은 취소선들을 해야겠군.그것은 정말 세상에서 가장 중요한 것이 아니며 나는 이 행동으로 어쩔 줄을 몰라하고 있다."무과실" 형식의 단서가 있는 공식적인 금지 조항은 표준 WP에 필요한 모든 것이다.IBAN 규정.DrStrauss talk 21:42, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
DrStrauss:당신은 ST를 "위키호킹"이라고 비난했지만, "위키호킹"을 구성하는 것에 대한 당신의 진술은 불완전하기 때문에, 당신이 당신의 생각을 끝내고 우리에게 당신이 ST를 비난하고 있는 행동을 명시적으로 말하는 것이 중요한 것이다.당신의 요구가 무엇에 근거하는지 우리에게 구체적으로 알려주지 않는 한 어떻게 지역사회가 당신의 요청에 응답할 수 있을 것이라고 기대할 수 있는지 모르겠다.당신을 더 강조하는 것은 나의 의도는 아니지만, 나는 당신이 "빈칸을 채우고" 당신의 생각을 끝내야 한다고 생각한다.그렇게 해 주시겠습니까?비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:51, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@My Ken을 넘어서: 교과서적인 경우라고 말할 수 있다: 한 명 이상의 편집자 중에서 뽑기, 여러 페이지나 주제에 대한 토론에 참여하기, 또는 그들이 기여하는 곳에 편집하거나 여러 토론에 참여하기, 반복적으로 그들작업DrStrauss talk 22:24, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
스트라우스, 자네와 난 잘 지내니까 내가 나쁜 곳에서 이런 짓을 하고 있는 건 아니겠지만, 자네 사건에는 별로 도움이 안 돼 그냥 형기를 끝내는 게 그렇게 이상해 보이는 거야.거의 없이 태그를 제거하는 형태로분명히 불완전한 문장이다.이유 없이 요점 중간에서 끝난다.그것을 완성하기 위해서, 당신은 어떤 것도 취소시킬 필요가 없고, 단지 문장을 편집하기만 하면 중간에서 흐르지 않고 당신의 의도된 청중들이 당신이 무엇을 하고 있는지 이해할 수 있다.알렉스 엥과 BMK는 너를 괴롭히려고 하는 것이 아니라, 우리는 단지 너의 게시물을 더 잘 이해하고 싶어.PMC(대화) 22:34, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@prepreded Chaos : 죄송합니다, 업데이트했습니다 :) DrStrauss talk 22:41, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내 유일한 진술은 내가 또한 어떤 토크 페이지 메시지와 ping도 요청하지 않았을 때 토크 pSwisterTwisterage 메시지를 받았다는 것이다. 그리고 이것은 지난 주까지 계속되었다.스위스터트위스터 스피드 경연대회는 누구나 할 수 있는 것이고 나는 특히 그들이 자격을 갖추지 못했기 때문에 그들을 제거했다.나는 물론 그들의 토크 페이지나 이 사용자와 관련된 어떤 것도 방문하지 않을 용의가 있지만 나는 내가 다시 메시지나 핑크를 받지 않기를 바란다.스위스터트위스터 토크 21:13, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@SwisterTwister: 이 논평에서 당신은 DrStrauss의 빠른 지명을 계속 없애고 싶어하는 것 같지만, 또한 DrStrauss가 당신과 그러한 제거에 대해 논의하는 것을 막기를 원하는가?이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 21:18, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
기사의 토크 페이지에서 SD태깅과 제거에 대해 논의하여 다른 편집자들이 원하면 그 우려와 의견을 알 수 있도록 하는 것이 좋지 않을까?두 편집자의 사용자 대화 페이지에서 열리는 토론은 본질적으로 반비공개적인 토론으로, 이러한 공개적인 행동을 위한 최선의 선택으로 보이지 않는다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:24, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
정확히 말하자면, 내가 원하는 것은 WP당 표준 상호작용 금지다.IBAN. DrStrauss talk 21:42, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 편집자들의 이력에 대해 잘 알지 못하지만, 만약 ST가 "대화 페이지 메시지도 없고 핑도 없다"를 원한다면, 그들이 삭제한 태그 중 하나에 대한 대화를 어떻게 알 수 있을까?이는 ST가 어떤 포럼에서든 질문에 대답해야 하는 부담을 갖지 않고 태그를 제거하도록 허용되기를 원하는 것처럼 보인다.그냥 명확하게 하려고 하는 거야.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 21:28, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
(ec) ST가 기사를 그들의 감시 목록에 추가하지 않았다면, 그들은 알지 못할 것이고, 이것은 그들에게 그것의 삭제를 위해 제시된 논쟁의 반박의 가능성을 줄 수 없을 것이고, 그들은 그 기사가 PRODd인지 AfD'd인지 알지 못할 것이다.틀릴 수도 있는 나의 이해는 SD 태그의 제거는 어떤 이유로든 최종적인 조치로서 태그는 나중에 다시 적용할 수 없기 때문에 PROD와 AfD는 여전히 기사를 삭제해야 한다고 믿는 편집자가 이용할 수 있는 선택사항이다.따라서, 예를 들어, "적용할 수 없는" 것이 무엇을 의미하는지에 대한 논의는 완전히 이론적이지 않은가?그리고 ST의 "말도 안하고 핑도 안하고" 정책의 단점이 모두 그의 것이 아닌가?비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:39, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 적어도 공식적인 정책으로는 단 한 번만 할 수 있는 PRODs라고 믿는다.PROD가 거의 어떤 이유로든 제거된 태그가 악의적으로 제거되었다고 하더라도 오류로 인한 신속한 제거는 여전히 복구될 수 있다(WP:DEPROD. ansh666 22:02, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 PROD에 대해 알고 있었고, 나는 분명히 빠른 삭제에 대한 절차와 그들을 위한 절차를 혼동하고 있었을지 모르지만, 나는 WP:Criteria의 어느 곳에서도 빠른 삭제를 위해 일단 기사의 태그가 해제되면 다시 태그를 붙일 수 있거나 할 수 없다는 것을 발견할 수 없다.이게 어디서 발견될지 아는 사람이 있다면 여기에 올려주면 고맙겠어.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 04:30, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 특히 우리가 서로의 대화 페이지에 올리지 않는 사적인 메시지인 오프위키에도 동의했기 때문에 어떤 대화 페이지 메시지에도 불구하고 어떤 대화 페이지 메시지도 원하지 않는다. 하지만 나는 "FYI 아니면 주목할 만한 가치가 있다"라는 한 주를 받았다.내가 반대하지 않을 대안은 그 문제를 관련 토크 페이지로 가져가는 것이다."오래된 시간" 기사는 TV 쇼였기 때문에 설명이 구체화된 섹션인 CSD A7에서 면제된다.나는 또한 CSD에서처럼 실제로 적용할 수 없기 때문에 스피디들을 실제로 제거하고 있다는 것을 설명하고 싶다.예를 들어, 현재 지명된 2개의 기사는 틀림없는 프로모션 프리였다(홍보주의가 적용될 수 있었던 유일한 사례는 음악가의 디테일한 음반 목록 때문에 마르쿠스 톰린슨이 최신작이다).내가 지난 주에 참여했던 각각의 AfDs는 그 주제가 200년 이상 전의 것이었기 때문이었습니다. 그리고 나는 어떤 과목에도 적용될 수 있는 어떤 것을 언급하고 있는데, 그것은 온라인 검색이 비알음성을 증명하는 유일한 요소가 될 수 없다는 것이다.존 그루빅은 내가 전적으로 신의의식을 갖고 스스로 자료를 추가한 예다.내가 여기서 하는 일은 단순히 WP를 보장하는 것의 더 나은 부분을 찾는 것이다.이전과 CSD 기준에서 그리고 잘못된 시간의 CSD가 제거되었을 때 CSD 정책에 따라 스피드를 복원할 수 없다.스위스터트위스터 토크 21:33, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • ST: Ivanvector가 인용한 예에서처럼 SD 태그를 제거할 때 편집 요약에서 좀 더 명확하게 설명한다면, 적어도 이 불만 사항의 작은 부분을 해결할 수 있을 것 같은데, "그림은 A7 기준에서 면제되고 기사는 "대단히 명확하지 않은" 것은 아니지만, "적용할 수 없는"이라고 쓴 부분에서는 다루지 않았다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 21:45, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
물론 "적용 불가"에 대한 설명을 확대하려면:기사는 '명예'로 시작되었고, 그래서 이것은 '우수한 일본 사진작가' 소식통과 대화하며 의의를 주장하는 것이다.기사가 1문장에 불과하다는 점을 감안하여 그 2부분을 스스로 설명하고자 했으나, 대답하고 명확하게 할 수 있어서 기뻤다.스위스터트위스터토크 22:01, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
아직도 G11에 주소를 쓰지 않아서 내가 다시 태그한 거야.DrStrauss talk 22:06, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 명확하지 않은 경우, CSD 해석에 대한 ST의 기록은 별개의 문제일 뿐, 내가 제기하는 것은 아니다.WP당 표준 인터랙션 금지만 요청한다.IBAN은 이것이 위키피디아를 편집하는 것을 나에게 즐겁지 않게 만들고 있기 때문이다.나는 위키피디아를 편집한다. 왜냐하면 나는 위키피디아를 즐기기 때문이다. 그리고 이것 때문에 나는 그 프로젝트에 계속 참여하고자 하는 의욕을 빠르게 잃고 있다.DrStrauss talk 21:53, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 예, 적용 불가능한 빠른 삭제 템플릿이 적용 불가능하다는 내용의 편집 요약과 함께 제거되는 것이 즐겁지 않을 수 있지만, 이에 대한 해결책은 다른 사람에게 책임을 전가하거나 다른 사람에게 책임을 전가하는 것이 아니라 삭제 정책 적용에서 어느 정도 역량을 얻고 적용 불가능한 빠른 삭제 태그 지정을 중지하는 것이다.단순히 무엇이 삭제되었는지에 대한 당신의 판단이 합의와 일치하지 않는다는 것을 깨닫고 더 창의적인 형태의 편집에 집중한다.86.17.222.157 (대화) 22:09, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 여기서 진짜 문제는 닥터야.S가 규칙을 제대로 이해하지 못하거나 믿지 못하는 것처럼 보일 정도로 완전히 적용할 수 없는 삭제 템플릿을 일관되게 사용하는 것, 또는 잠자리도 실제로 기사를 읽지 않는다.그의 접근방식은 오직 관리자만 신속한 태그를 제거하도록 하자는 그의 최근 제안에서 잘 드러난다.속도를 높여야 할 엄청난 양의 잡동사니들이 있지만, S박사는 너무 자주 그것을 오해하고, 사람들이 그에게 전화를 걸면 불행해진다.일찍이 ST는 가끔 비슷한 오해를 보이기도 했지만, 이제는 알게 되었다.S박사님도 그러길 바란다.하지만 한가지 분명한 것은 삭제 충돌에 대한 잘못된 접근법은 상대방을 제한하려는 것이다. DGG (토크 ) 22:15, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@DGG: 음...내 삭제 태그 로그를 확인하면 대부분 빨간색이다.나는 페이지 큐레이션을 통해 대부분의 스피드를 하기 때문에 트윙클 로그를 거의 보관하지 않는다.진짜로, CSD는 내가 직접 말하긴 하지만 꽤 잘 해.그리고 ST는 상대가 아니라 선동자야.나는 내 진술을 뒷받침하기 위해 많은 다른 의견을 내놓았다.DrStrauss talk 22:22, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
동의하지 않는 사람들을 적으로, 또는 "aggatitator"로 보는 것은 적절하지 않다.그들은 구체적인 사안에 대해서는 거의 반대다.당신은 내가 당신의 태깅에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지 이미 배웠지만, 나는 보통 특정 기사에 대해 반대하는 것을 제한하고, 그것에 대한 논의가 이미 시작되었다는 것 외에는 결코 일반적인 문제를 제기하지 않았을 것이다.지난 몇 년 동안 삭제 정책 등에 대해 여러 사람들과 심한 의견 충돌을 빚기도 했지만 WP에 갈 생각은 추호도 없었다.ANI나 다른 어떤 것에 대해서, 또는 누구와도 sn 인터랙션 금지를 요청한 적이 있다.필요한 경우도 있지만, 아주 적은 경우가 있다. (그리고, fwuw, 내가 Arb com에 대해서도 그렇게 생각한다. 오늘날 우리는 공식적인 사례가 거의 없고, 나는 기쁘다. 그리고 나는 거의 항상 덜 적은 제재의 편에 서 있다.) DGG (토크 ) 22:30, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 ST를 적으로 여기지 않지만 그는 선동적인 행동을 해서 그를 선동자로 만들고 있다.DrStrauss talk 22:41, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
누군가가 당신을 선동한다고 해서 그들을 선동자가 되는 것은 아니다.종종 뒤로 물러서서 냉정을 되찾아야 한다는 뜻. --타라지(대화) 23:36, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • DGG, DrStrauss가 삭제 태그를 부착하는 것을 금지해야 한다고 제안할 수 있는가?드레이미스 (토크) 01:22, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 제안을 피하려고 노력하고 있다; 내가 말했듯이, 그들이 아무리 어리석다고 해도 반대자들을 금지하고 싶지 않다. DGG (토크 ) 02:22, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @DrStrauss:너의 개회사문의 빈칸을 채워줘서 고마워.
    자네와 스위스터 트위스터 사이에 IBAN을 요청했네 만약 스위스터 트위스터가 그 일에 동의했다면 자네 둘 다에게 그런 제재를 가하는 행정관으로는 문제될 게 없을 것 같네(생각 안 해)하지만 SwisterTwister는 그것에 동의하지 않았다, 나는 믿지 않는다. 이것은 상호 IBan이 정당하다는 것을 행정관에게 납득시키기 위해 필요한 증거를 제공하고 ST의 이의에 대해 그것을 부과하는 책임이 당신에게 있다는 것을 의미한다.아직 그 일을 하지 않은 것 같은데.몇 가지 구체적인 사례를 들으셨고, 여러 가지 일반적인 고발도 하셨지만, 증거를 제시하지 않으셨습니다. 여러 가지 형태로요. 제 생각에는 행정관이 당신의 요청에 동의하는 것이 필요할 겁니다.다른 편집자들이 당신의 CSD 관련 행동에서 결함을 보았기 때문에 특히 그렇다.
    괴롭힘을 당하는 것에 대한 인식이 상당히 스트레스를 줄 수 있고, 위키백과 편집을 즐기는 데 방해가 될 수 있다는 것을 나 자신의 경험으로 이해하지만, 충분한 증거를 제시함으로써 다른 편집자들에게 자신의 감정이 정당하다는 것을 납득시켜야 한다.그 정보를 수집해서 여기에 게시하는 것이 가장 좋을 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 그것이 없이 어떤 조치가 취해질지 매우 의심스럽기 때문이다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 01:31, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

2방향 무장애 IB 투표A의

  • 는 이 편집자들 둘 다 좋아하고 그들이 AfC와 NPP에서 하는 일에 감사한다.ST는 그들이 상호작용을 원하지 않는다고 말하고 DrS는 상호작용을 금지하기를 원한다.그들에게 주면 모두 편집으로 돌아가자.인지된 스토킹은 재미가 없고 그것을 막기 위해 ANI를 통해 끌려가는 것은 더더욱 나쁜 일이다.아니에게 끌려가는 것도 재미없다.둘 다 명백히 문제가 있는 사용자들은 아니다.레거시pac (대화) 01:46, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대론자 트위스터는 자신의 토크 페이지에서는 상호작용을 원하지 않지만 기사 토크 페이지에서 닥터스트라우스와의 토론은 괜찮다는 데 동의한다고 말했다.그러나, 그러한 논의는 상호 IBan에 의해 허용되지 않을 것이기 때문에, Swister Twister가 IBan에 특별히 동의하거나 DrStrauss가 그 중 하나가 정당하다는 것을 보여줄 충분한 증거를 제시하기 전까지는, 나는 그 제재에 반대해야 한다고 생각한다.이것은 특히 잘 확립된 편집자와 관리자가 CSD에서의 DrStrauss의 역량에 대해 의문을 제기했기 때문에 더욱 그렇다. CSD는 이들 편집자들 사이의 논쟁에 완전히 새로운 차원을 더하고 있다: 만일 DrStrauss가 신속한 삭제를 위해 기사를 적절히 태그하지 않는다면, 그가 IBan으로 보상을 받는 것은 타당해 보이지 않는다.혹은 그 문제들을 바로잡을 수 있다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 04:15, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
  • CSD 태그가 명백히 부정확할 경우, 적용 불가능한 편집 요약으로 충분할 경우 반대한다.여기서 문제는 CSD 태깅이 잘못되었다는 것이다. IBAN은 그것을 돕지 않을 것이고, 심지어 더 오래 그것을 계속할 수도 있다.eereSpielCequers 04:45, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 쌍방이 합의하지 않으면 반대하라.스트라우스 박사와 관련하여, 여기에 제시된 증거는 그들이 삭제 과정을 이해하는 데 더 많은 시간이 필요하다는 것을 말해주는 것 같다."적용할 수 없는"은 더 많은 것이 필요하지 않다고 말하면서 충분하고 잘 이해되었다.또한 Strauss 박사에 의한 현재의 AfD는 좋지 않은 충고를 받은 것 같다[8].트위스터 수녀가 NA1000과 그들 사이의 의견 불일치 중에 타당한 합리성을 제시했다고 생각하는데, 나는 지금 그것에 대한 연결고리를 찾을 수 없다.ST는 심지어 그것에 대해 타협을 제안하기도 했다.
또 하나, ST가 "주제에 관한 여러 가지 현존하는 책"이 있다고 표시할 때 PROD 태그[9]를 옮기는 것에는 아무런 문제가 없다.트위스터 수녀와의 경험은 그들이 매우 유능한 편집자여서 이 프로젝트에 큰 기여를 한다는 것이다.나는 몇몇이 ST가 몇 단어의 편집자가 되는 것을 좋아하지 않는다는 것을 알지만, 그들은 많은 일을 한다.여기서도 정반대의 증거가 보이지 않는다.---스티브 퀸(토크) 06:47, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 음, 이건 잘 되어가네...
내 CSD 태깅에 대해 걱정하는 사람들에게: 네가 틀렸다는 것을 깨닫기 위해 WMFLabs와 내 삭제 태그 로그만 사용하면 되고, 나는 대부분 그것을 정확하게 이해한다.IMO 나는 내 사건을 증명하기 위해 충분한 차이점 이상을 제공했다. 게다가 나는 기사가 삭제된 유사한 사례들을 인용할 수 없기 때문에 뒷걸음질치고 있다.
책임 없는 행정관이 이걸 닫고 싶으면 내 손님이 돼라. 내가 그 프로젝트에서 장기간 휴식을 취하고 있고, 스와스터 트위스터는 확실히 건드릴 수 없기 때문에 어떤 식으로든 우리 둘 중 어느 쪽도 제재할 필요가 없다.
반면에, 만약 사람들이 계속 말다툼을 하고 싶다면, 내 손님이 되어라, 나는 그 일이 일어나는 것을 보기 위해 여기 있지는 않을 것이다.
위키피디아 활동으로 인해 RL약속이 어려움을 겪고 있어서 마침내 나를 궁지에 몰아넣고 한동안 귀찮게 하지 않아도 된다고 설득해 준 SwisterTwister에게 감사하고 싶다.
내년에는 아마 돌아올 것이지만, 어떤 이유로든 누군가가 나를 필요로 한다면 나는 여전히 IRC에 있을 것이다.
DrStrauss talk 08:37, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

극한 사용자공간 목록

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

관리자가 WP처럼 보이는 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ImTheIP/NastyWikipedians을 검토하고 삭제할 수 있는가?Polemic?-Serialjoepsycho- (대화) 16:51, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

예를 들어, 사용자가 사용자의 행동에 대한 어떤 종류의 보고서를 제출할 준비가 되어 있는 경우 선례를 통해 사용자는 자신의 사용자 공간에 차이점 목록을 유지할 수 있다.그게 바로 오늘 만들어진 것으로 보여서, 나는 Polemic이 적용되지 않는다고 생각해.임더에게는 좋은 생각일지도 모른다.하지만 IP는 그들이 무엇을 하고 있는지 설명해준다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 17:07, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
리스트의 제목과 그의 사용자 페이지에 그가 현재 작업하고 있는 것으로 광고하고 있는 것을 보면 의심스러워 보인다.[10]ylenejoepsycho- (대화)17:17, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 삭제 - 확실히 디프(diff)를 컴파일할 수 있지만 "나쁜 놈"이라는 제목으로 컴파일할 수 있음위키피디아 사람들" 그가 이것을 "이름 & 수치심" 페이지 같은 것으로만 사용할 것이 분명하다 - 삭제 & 만약 그것을 다시 만들면, 그는 차단되어야 한다, 그렇게 간단하다.Davey2010Talk 17:20, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 공격 페이지로 그 페이지를 삭제했다.어떤 종류의 분쟁해결을 준비하기 위해 사용될 수 있는 방법은 없었다, 그것은 공공의 수치심을 주기 위한 시도였다. --Floquenbeam (대화) 17:45, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 더 멀리 갈 수도 있어, 사용자 페이지 봤어?그들이 협력적인 경험을 위해 여기에 온 것은 확실하지 않다.캔터베리 테일톡 17:46, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 그 명단은 신경 쓰지 않는다.나는 그 페이지와 다른 모든 페이지를 내 사용자 공간에 만들어 다양한 것들을 추적했다.무례한 위키백과 편집자들처럼.그것이 어떤 정책을 위반했기 때문에 내가 그것을 가질 수 없다면, 그렇게 하시오.그러나 누군가를 공격하려는 의도는 아니었다.IMTHIP (대화) 17:58, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

당신이 당신의 사용자 페이지에 광고하는 리스트를 만들었고, "불미스러운 위키피디아 사람들"이라는 이름을 붙였지만, 누군가를 공격하는 것은 모욕으로 의도된 것이 아니었다고?-시리얼조프시초- (대화) 18:06, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
"비열한"이라고 불리는 것이 꼭 그렇게 무서운 모욕은 아니다. - 그것이 "공격"의 자격이 될지는 확실하지 않다.한편, 나는 내 사용자 이름이 목록에 있는지 알고 싶었다.MPS1992 (대화) 19:01, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
무섭다고? 두려움은 어디서 오는 건지 모르겠어.공격이지, 물리적인 것과는 다르다.아니, 너는 명단에 없었어.-시리얼조프시초- (대화)19:28, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워 직렬접시초, 나는 가 공격의 대상이 아니라는 것을 알게 되어 기쁘다.MPS1992 (대화) 21:40, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
언어 공격을 처음 사용한 것은 IP였다.인신공격이기도 하다.그는 그것이 의도된 것이 아니었다고 제안한다.난 그게 무슨 뜻이었는지 궁금할 뿐이야.인신공격 이외의 어떤 것이라도 의도된 것이었다.-시리얼joepsycho- (대화)00:35, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
난 이 일에 관여하지 말아야 할 것 같아. 왜냐하면 난 이 일에 관여하지 말아야 할 것 같아. 하지만, 여기...나는 당신이 당신의 토크 페이지에서 "그러니까, 기사의 토크 페이지로 가져가서 내 토크 페이지에서 꺼져라"라고 대답한 질문을 당신에게 했다.나는 그것이 부적절하다고 생각했고 그래서 나는 너를 내 "리스트"에 추가했다. 그래서 나는 미래에 너와 교류하는 것을 피하려고 했다.이제 이 문제에 대해서는 더 이상 언급하지 않겠다(ArbCom이 요구하거나 하지 않는 한).IMTHIP (대화) 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC) 14:25 [응답]
사용자 이름과 사용자의 사용자 페이지에 있는 공격적인 자료만으로는 충분한 힌트가 될 수 있지만, 이 점은 합리적인 것 같다.불행히도 당신은 메모지의 이름을 잘못 지었다."NustyConductBy"가 아닌 위키백과 사용자위키피디아인"따라서 그것을 "공격"으로 볼 것을 권장한다. (그 언어는 ImTheIP가 아닌 Floquenbeam -- 17:44, 2017년 9월 18일에 처음 사용되었다.)어쨌든, 당신이 우아하게 받아들였듯이, 이러한 상황에서는 사용자 공간에 차이들의 목록을 보관하는 것이 허용되지 않지만, 그것은 이제 해결되었다.Arbcom이 당신에게 어떤 것을 요구하지는 않을 것 같다.MPS1992 (대화) 17:09, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 사용자 페이지에 몇 가지 해로운 문장이 있다고 본다: 너는 나의 편집 내용을 되돌리지 말기를 바란다 &&&. 위키피디아의 가장 좋은 점은 네가 알고 있는 주제에 대해 쓸 수 있다는 것이다. 위키피디아의 가장 나쁜 점은 전혀 모르는 사람들과 논쟁해야 한다는 것이다.그리고 사용자의 토크 페이지는 "협력적으로 일하는 방법" 학습 과정을 개선하면 사용자와 커뮤니티 모두에게 전반적으로 이익이 될 것이라고 제안한다.호서 (대화) 2017년 9월 18일 18:38 (UTC)[응답]

아마도 맞을 것이다, 하지만 위키피디아의 "전문가들은 쓰레기야" 문제는 잘 문서화되었다.MPS1992 (대화) 17:09, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
그들이 전문가가 아니라는 것, 그리고 모든 것이 농담이었고 사람들이 그것을 심각하게 받아들일 줄 몰랐다는 것 외에는...솔직히 바보같은 IMO. ansh66 21:23, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자에 의한 반달리즘 및 인신공격:도널드토날드3

참고: 이미 WP가 있다.이 사용자에 대한 ANV 보고서, 그러니까 인신공격에 대한 링크와 그가 편집한 Sockpuppet 조사 페이지.

Sockpuppuppet 사용자인 DonaldTonald3(토크·기여)는 우리가 반달리즘으로 구성된 그의 편집 내용을 번복한 후에도 계속 이 사용자들의 대화 페이지에 위협적인 편집을 했다.지금 현재 그는 우리가 편집한 내용을 반달리즘으로 되돌릴 때마다 계속해서 기사를 파괴하고 우리의 토크 페이지(특히 플라이르스타93)에 위협을 가하고 있다.이 사용자를 차단하고, 해당되는 경우, 대화 페이지에 있는 위협적인 편집 내용을 숨기십시오.고마워요.인스턴트매트릭스 (대화) 04:19, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

IMO 일반 AIV 건은 이 문제를 잘 정리해야 하는데, 지금은 조금 밀릴 뿐이다. -1987-PlyrStar93. 04:20, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자들의 변명을 받고 있다. -1998- PlyrStar93. 04:24, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자: 81.102.46.190

지난 한 주 동안, 81.102.46.190은 몇몇 역사적인 군주들의 목록과 한 왕의 페이지에서 날짜를 수정해왔다.삽입되는 날짜는 역사적 기록에 근거가 없으며, 검증가능성을 제공하기 위한 어떠한 시도도 이루어지지 않고 있다.그들은 편집 요약이나 관련 토크 페이지에서 변경 사항을 설명한 적이 없다.이러한 행동에는 여러 개의 다른 날짜에 대한 변경과 여러 번 같은 날짜에 대한 변경이 포함된다.마찬가지로 문제가 되는 것은, 이러한 변경사항의 대다수가 간단히 "Fixed typeo"라고 읽는 요약 편집으로 위장되어 있다는 점이다.개별적인 차이점을 주기 보다는, 이 편집자에 의해 현재까지 편집된 모든 것이 날짜 변경(또는 그들 자신의 날짜 변경에 대한 트윗), 대부분 '고정 타이포'라고 라벨을 붙인 기록 [11]을 참조하라. 일부 내용은 '추가 내용'으로 표시되며, 적어도 정보를 제공하지 않는 것은 기만적이지 않다.나는 어제 그들에게 기만 편집 요약[12]에 대해 경고했고, 나중에 WP에 포인터를 제공했다.BRD [13] 그러나 오늘은 이전에 영향을 받지 않은 새 페이지를 포함하여 거의 십여 개의 '고정 타이포' 날짜 변경 편집 내용을 추가로 발견하여 레벨 3 중단 경고[14]를 주었고, 몇 시간 내에 다른 새 페이지를 포함하여 5개의 "고정 타이포" 날짜를 추가로 변경했다.나는 이것을 반달리즘이라고 특징 짓지 않을 것이다. 왜냐하면 그들 중 일부는 합리적인 날짜고, 지지할 수 없는 날짜일 뿐이기 때문이다. 그래서 나는 여기서 AGF를 하지만 이것은 계속될 수 없고 그들은 그들의 행동을 수정할 기미를 보이지 않는다.페이지 보호는 가장 영향을 많이 받는 페이지에는 도움이 될 수 있지만, 추가 페이지를 계속 추구함에 따라, 그것은 엄청난 게임이 될 수도 있지만, 그들은 안정적인 IP를 사용하고 있는 것처럼 보인다.그들은 [15]의 통지를 받았다.아그리콜래 (대화) 20:55, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

역전의 반전에 대한 PalyoNeonate의 고발과 위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

나는 PalmoNeonate의 부당한 특권 사용과 신규 사용자 협박에 대해 우려하는 사람들에게 이 사실을 알리고 싶다.

나는 기사에 대해 BOLD 편집을 했는데, 사용자가 아무런 이유도 주지 않고 되돌아갔다."복귀할 때 편집요약에서 이유를 구체적으로 밝히고 필요하면 링크를 사용하라"는 내용의 되돌리기 정책 위반으로 보고, 나는 이유를 이유로 언급하지 않고 BRD 미준수에 대해 되짚어 보았지만, 그는 다시 되돌렸고, 여기서 언급된 지침을 따르지 않은 것이 분명했다."두 번 되돌리면 BRD 사이클을 더 이상 따르지 않는 것"

하지만 그것 말고도 팰리노네이트가 나를 '무중단 편집'과 '중립적 관점 정책' 위반으로 고발해 차단하겠다고 협박했다는 게 주요 쟁점이다.또한, 최근의 해명에서, 그는 내가 BRD를 따르지 않는다고 비난했다.

이런 상황에서 이 문제를 해결하기 위해 무엇을 해야 하는지, 관리자로부터 무엇을 기대할 수 있는지 알 수 있을까?

고마워!

--흉터 얼굴 (대화) 09:26, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

네가 말하는 기사의 이름을 알려주면 도움이 될 거야.알레프 (대화) 09:40, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
위키피디아에서 그 문제를 제기하셨군요.찻집#특권을 가진 편집자들이 새로운 사용자에 대한 비난을 입증해야 하는가?나는 또한 응답자 중 아무도 당신에게 이 문제를 이 게시판에 올리라고 권하지 않았음을 안다.나는 네가 거기서 말한 것을 듣도록 충고하고 싶다.-맨드러스 인터뷰 09:41, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 PaleoNeonate로부터 문제를 제기할 것을 제안받았다.또한 나는 그의 행동에 대해 어떤 식으로든 말하라고 말하지는 않는다.찻집처럼, 관찰자들은 그 문제를 토크 페이지로 가져갔다.하지만 이것은 내가 기사를 바꾸는 것에 대한 문제인지 아니면 전혀 문제가 되지 않았다.그것은 특권 남용에 관한 것이었고, 다른 사람들에 의한 BRD를 따르지 않는 것에 관한 것이었는데, 티하우스의 고문들이 완전히 놓치고 있는 것이었다. The Scar face (대화 • 기여) 05:47, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]에 의해 추가된 이전서명되지 않은 논평
네가 말하는 기사의 이름을 알려주면 도움이 될 거야.알레프 (대화) 09:58, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 그는, 여기.그럴 만도 하다.분명히 그는 경험에서 네가 여기서 무엇을 듣게 될지 알고 있었다.당신은 5시간, 14번의 편집등록된 편집경험을 모두 가지고 있고, 나는 당신이 등록되지 않은 편집의 오랜 이력이 없다고 추측할 것이다.7개월, 5800개의 편집이 있는 편집자와 의견 차이가 있을 때, 당신의 가장 좋은 접근법은 "지금 계속하라, 나중에 이해하라"는 것이다.이 페이지는 새로운 편집자들에게 위키피디아, 찻집, 헬프 데스크가 그것을 위한 좋은 장소라는 것을 설명하기 위한 것이 아니다.또한 1대 1로 확장된 안내를 위해 사용자 채택 프로그램에 등록할 수 있다.-맨드러스 인터뷰 10:08, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
팔로네이트는 널 막겠다고 위협하지 않았어그들은 당신에게 만약 당신이 계속해서 방해한다면 당신은 차단될 수 있다고 말했다.PalyoNeonate는 당신을 막을 수 있는 기술적 능력이 없다.이 시점에서 기사 토크 페이지에 남아 선호하는 버전에 대해 토론할 필요가 있다.WP를 정말로 보고 싶다면:BRD, 당신은 Bold였고, 그 과감한 편집은 Revert였고, 그 때 논문이 시작되었어야 했는데, 그 기사는 현재 진행 중이다.~ GB팬 10:42, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
"정당한 말씀이오.분명히 그는 경험으로 부터 당신이 여기서 무엇을 들을지 알고 있었다." - 그리고 나는 여전히 편집자들의 주관적인 의견 대신에 정당한 대답을 찾으려고 노력하고 있다.
"만약 WP를 꼭 보고 싶다면:BRD, 당신은 BRD, 당신은 BRD였고, 그 과감한 편집은 Revert였고, 그 때 논의가 시작되었어야 했다." - 나는 "Bold"였고, 그 과감한 편집은 설명 없이 Revert되었는데, BRD는 이에 반대한다.내가 그것을 번복한 것은 설명에 동의하지 않았기 때문이 아니라, 그 경우에 나는 토크에 갔어야 했다.페이지, 그러나 아무런 설명도 제공되지 않았기 때문이다.그런 다음 동일한 사용자가 Edit Warring(편집 워링)으로 정의된 내 권장 사항을 수용하지 않고 다시 되돌렸다.흉터 얼굴 (토크) 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC) 10:57[응답]
당신은 편집자의 주관적인 의견만 얻게 될 것이다.위키피디아에는 어렵고 빠른 규칙이 거의 없으며 당신은 경험을 통해 공동체 규범이 무엇인지 배운다.어느 누구도 완전히 옳고 그른 사람이 없어서 어떤 제재도 요구되지 않는다.이 상황과는 어떤 관리자도 상관할 필요가 없다.~ GB팬 11:24, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 편집-전쟁, 흉터 얼굴에 대해 불평할 리가 없다.당신은 24시간도 채 안 되는 기간 동안 적어도 4번의 번역을 했는데, 이것은 우리가 WP:3RR이라고 부르는 위키피디아의 레드라인 규칙을 넘어서는 것이다.나는 네가 그 정책을 검토할 것을 추천한다.당신은 팔레오네이트가 그 선을 넘지 않고 당신의 행동보다 훨씬 온화한 두 번의 반전을 비난하고 있을 뿐이다.나는 당신이 WP:를 읽을 것을 추천한다.부메랑, 당신이 지금 하고 있는 종류의 일을 사람들이 피하도록 돕는 데 도움이 되는 에세이 입니다.알레프 (대화) 11:27, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

순간적으로 나는 "와, 흉터 얼굴은 다른 편집자를 지칭하는 놀라운 방법"이라고 생각했고, 그것이 실제로 다른 편집자의 이름이라는 것을 깨달았다.EENG 16:30, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 방금 이 토론을 알아차렸다.@EENG: 나도 같은 인상을 받았어.Face-smile.svg흉터는 나중에 내가 되돌아가는 편집자 사이에 있지 않다는 것을 깨닫고 내 토크 페이지에 그렇게 말했는데, 거기서 나는 더 자세히 대답했다(편집 전쟁 중에 경고를 발했다).추가 중:WP:BRD는 설명 부록에 불과하다. WP:컨센서스는 정책이다(BRD 역시 정책이다).PaleoNeonate – 17:07, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

WP 사용 초대 정보:ANI, 그것은 나를 어떻게 보고해야 하는지에 대한 요청에 대한 대답이었다; 나는 내가 보고받으면 여기서 문제가 생기지 않을 것이라고 가정했지만, 나는 여전히 그 질문에 답하는 것이 적절하다고 생각했고, 또한 그것이 아무것도 아니거나 WP가 될 것이라는 진술로 새로운 편집자를 겁먹지 않으려고 시도했다.부메랑은 가능했다(그리고 나는 부메랑이 첫 ANI보고서가 될 가능성이 낮다는 것을 알았다.PaleoNeonate – 17:16, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 Ohyebaby의 위협적인 언어

User:Ohyeahbaby and User:Wikiguy22는 내가 반달리즘으로 되돌린 배리 골드버그(볼리볼 코치)와 아메리칸 대학교(American University)의 기사를 편집했다(예: [16], [17]).이어 오예베이는 '또 배리를 건드리면......'라는 글과 함께 록소드 기사를 편집했다.내가 너를 찾아서 너를 셧다운시키겠다.] [18] 이 편집은 ConverseBot NG에 의해 번복되었다.록소드 기사는 내가 기고했던 기사로 내 사용자 페이지에 나열되어 있어 개인적으로 나를 협박하려는 시도였다고 보는 이유다.아메리칸 대학교와 배리 골드버그는 오예비아가 편집한 유일한 기사들이다.이 문제를 조사해 주면 고맙겠다.감사합니다.Kbseah (대화) 05:54, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

@Kbseah: 저것은 아마도 자레드그크2008 (토크·출고)일 것이다.나는 그가 성가신 존재에 지나지 않는다고 생각하지만 당신은 WP의 지시를 따를 수 있다.안전하게 재생하려면 EMERGENCY.나는 두 계정을 모두 차단했다.그를 다시 보면, 그냥 나에게 전화를 걸어.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 07:45, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
고마워! Kbseah (대화) 12:34, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

세르비아 총대주교들에 대한 반달리즘 기사

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

오늘날, 단 18분(10:18에서 10:36까지)의 짧은 시간 간격에 세르비아 총대주교들에 대한 기사 30여 건을 영어로 된 공식 타이틀의 부분을 없애고, 또한 세르비아어(키릴어)와 그리스어(알파벳어)의 타이틀에 관한 모든 데이터를 삭제함으로써 파괴했다.그는 어떠한 제안이나 토론이나 설명도 없이 일방적으로 그렇게 했다.These are titles of vandalized articles: Kalinik II, Serbian Patriarch‎, Kirilo II, Serbian Patriarch‎, Irinej, Serbian Patriarch‎, Pavle, Serbian Patriarch‎, German, Serbian Patriarch‎, Vikentije II, Serbian Patriarch‎, Varnava, Serbian Patriarch‎, Dimitrije, Serbian Patriarch‎, Gavrilo IV, Serbian Patriarch‎, Gavrilo V, Serbian Patriarch‎, Pajsije II, Serbian Patriarch‎, Vikentije I, Serbian Patriarch‎, Gavrilo III, Serbian Patriarch‎, Gavrilo II, Serbian Patriarch‎, Atanasije II Gavrilović‎, Arsenije IV Jovanović Šakabenta‎, Mojsije I, Serbian Patriarch‎, Atanasije I, Serbian Patriarch‎, Kalinik I, Arsenije III Čarnojević‎, Maksim I, Serbian Patriarch‎, Gavrilo I, Serbian Patriarch‎, Paj시제, 조반 칸툴, 사바티제 소콜로비치, 게라심 1세, 세르비아 총대주교, 안토니제 1세, 세르비아 총대주교, 마카리제 소콜로비치, 파블 1세, 세르비아 총대주교, 세르비아 총대주교 아르세르 2세, 니코딤 2세, 세르비아 총대주교.이 사건은 더 나쁜 일의 시작에 불과할 수도 있고, 따라서 관리자의 어떤 조치가 필요하다.소라비노 (토크) 2017년 9월 20일 12시 56분 (UTC)[응답]

내가 기억하는 한 이 유저를 처음 만나는 것인데, 왜 그렇게 노골적으로 거짓말을 하는지 알 수가 없다.나는 아무런 설명도 없이 아무것도 하지 않았다; 상세한 편집 요약을 각 편집에 수반했고, 어떤 데이터도 완전히 삭제되지 않았다. (그 데이터는 원래 있던 곳에 보관되었다.)그러므로 나는 소라비노가 진정할 것을 친절하게 제안한다.서르츠카나 (대화) 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC) 13:00[응답]
여기에는 공공 기물 파손이 없다(WP: 참조).반달리즘은 반달리즘이 무엇인지 설명하기 위한 것이다.나는 소라비노가 다른 편집자에 대해 근거 없는 비난을 하지 말고 WP:토론WP:컨센서스 도달에 도전할 것을 권고한다.반자제니제 (대화) 2017년 9월 20일 16:11 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

User SuperladiTM이 "Steaua" 설명 페이지에서 근거 없는 편집을 수행

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:SupervladiTM은 최근 '스테이우아' / 'FCSB' 위키백과 페이지(영어판)에 대한 폭동에 연루된 것으로 보인다.그는 현실과 상관없는 개인적인 의견을 제공하면서 "Steaua" disambigation 페이지를 계속 수정하고 있다.그는 분명히 FCSB(옛 스테아우아)가 기록과 역사를 박탈당했다는 것을 암시하려는 의도가 있다.이 진술은 근거가 없다.최근 그는 고려될 수 없는 참고자료 제공, 즉 관련 당사자들 중 한 명이 발표한 내용으로 되돌아가고 있다.내가 문제를 알리기 위해 노력했고 내 관점을 뒷받침하는 참고 자료를 제공한 대화 페이지와 역사를 보아라.

나는 후속 편집을 하기 전에 각 페이지를 제한하고 합의 기반의 메커니즘을 부과하자고 제안했다.아직 아무런 조치도 취해지지 않았다...

제발, 이 광기를 끝내자!

타라스불바 47 (대화) 11:44, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 이거 실 하나 더 있어?이래서 풋내기가 내 주제 리스트에 올라있는거야 우리가 그 문제들만큼 가치가 없는 모든 취재는 그만둬야해정말아무도 루마니아 축구 허가 절차 논쟁에 신경 쓰지 않는다.EENG 12:23, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇지! 루마니아 축구에 관심이 없다는 사실이 사람들이 페이지를 파괴하고 그들이 원하는 것을 쓰도록 허용하는 것은 정당화되지 않아.타라스불바 47 (대화) 13:29, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
뭘 한다고?불필요한 추가 스레드를 생성하시겠습니까?EENG 22:27, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
여보세요, 나야, 사용자:슈퍼라디기술책임자(TM). 증명되지 않았다고 주장하는 모든 진술에는 명확한 참조와 활성 링크가 제공된다.더구나 이 모든 소위 진술은 루마니아의 법률에 의해 결정되었던 것에 지나지 않는다.타라스 불바 47이 지칭하는 FCSB 클럽은 공식적으로 이름을 바꾸었기 때문에 더 이상 FC 스테아우아라고 불리지 않는다.만약 이 주제에 대해 어떤 의제가 있다면, 그것은 분명히 내 것이 아니다 - 그리고 나는 합법적인 위키백과 페이지의 존재에 화가 난 것처럼 보이는 사용자들에 의한 지속적인 공공 기물 파괴 행위와 이 각각의 페이지에 있는 몇 개의 언급에 의해 유지되는 그것의 합법적인 내용에 대해 언급하고 있다.나는 어떤 페이지도 파괴한 적이 없다. 게다가 FC Steaua Bucurecureti(또는 FCSB) 페이지에서 진행되고 있던 기물 파괴 행위도 되돌렸다.감사합니다.사용자:SupervladiTM 14:54, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
EENG: ...잠깐, 나는 그 주장을 문제 삼아야 한다. 그 주제에 대해 잘 모르지만, "논쟁"이라는 것은 *누군가*가 그것에 대해 스트레스를 받기 시작할 정도로 충분히 신경 쓴다는 것을 의미한다.그냥 말하는 거야.내 말은, Deflateateate라는 기사는 *대량적*이고, 그리고 (내 외부인의 눈에는) 더욱 그렇게 생각하도록 만든다. "정말, 누가 엿을 주냐?"단지 무언가가 우리에게 사소한 것처럼 보인다고 해서 그것이 사람들에게 중요하지 않다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.—{{u Goldenshimmer}}} ✝️ 제/제르 😹 T/C ☮ 15:12 🍂 06:01, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
실수하지 마, 나는 미식축구가 역대 가장 어리석은 경기라고 생각해. 그래서 나는 디플레이테이트에 대해 네 말에 동의해.하지만 나는 사람들이 그들의 민족적, 민족주의적 논쟁을 그들이 단지 우주적으로 중요하다고 보는 것에 대해 영어 위키백과에 수입하는 것에 질렸다.루마니아 축구클럽 라이선스 파문은 루마니아어 위키피디아(그런 게 있다면)에서 정리할 수 있다.EENG 06:13, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 전적으로 반대한다: 영어 이외의 주요 국가의 사물에 대한 훨씬 실질적인 보장이 있어야 한다. 왜냐하면 공신력은 언어에 의존하지 않고, 영어 이외의 주요 콘텐츠의 양과 깊이는 비교적으로 부족하기 때문이다.—{{u Goldenshimmer}} ✝️ ze/zer 😹 T/C ☮️ John15:12 🍂 06:27, 17 September 2017 (UTC)(fixed link syntax —{{u Goldenshimmer}} ✝️ ze/zer 😹 T/C ☮️ John15:12 🍂 06:38, 17 September 2017 (UTC))[reply]
다른 모든 것들은 똑같아, 물론이지.하지만 우리가 단지 사람들이 그들이 싸우고 있는 그 무엇으로든 공격의 전선을 넓히는 장소로 이용되고 있을 때는 그렇지 않다.왜냐하면 그런 일이 있을 때 얻는 것은 여기 있는 것 뿐이니까요(사실, 두 개의 동시 스레드에 있는 것).EENG 06:36, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그럴 만도 하다.—{{u Goldenshimmer}}} ✝️ 제/제르 😹 T/C ☮ 15:12 🍂 06:39, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 민족주의나 그 밖의 어떤 것과도 무관하다.사실 그 문제는 이미 해결되었다.루마니아 법원은 현재 팟발 클럽 Fcsb로 알려진 클럽이 스테아우아 브랜드와 이름을 불법으로 사용했다고 결정했다.그것은 FC Fcsb의 사용을 금지했다.그러나 FC Fcsb의 일부 지지자들은 법을 무시하고 그러한 판결은 결코 일어나지 않은 것처럼 가장하며 FC Fcsb는 여전히 Steaua Buchesty라고 생각한다.진짜 스타우아 부쿠레슈티 팀은 현재 루마니아 4부 리그에서 뛰고 있다.스테아우아 브랜드를 가지고 있고, 스테아우아라는 이름을 가진 유일한 브랜드로, 물론 스테아우아 기록과 역사를 가지고 있다.우리는 단지 세상에 진실을 말하고 싶을 뿐이다. - TPTB (대화) 08:53, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
넌 혼란스러워!그리고 허구와 현실을 섞어서 혼란스럽게 한다!한편으로 당신은 "스타우아" 브랜드 (REALITY)를 사용하는 것을 금지하는 법원 명령에 대해 말하고 있는 반면, 새로 설립된 팀이 이미 존재하는 팀의 역사와 기록을 획득하는 시나리오 (FICTION)를 언급하고 있는 것이다.아무도 "FCSB는 여전히 Steaua Buchesty"라고 주장하지 않는다!제정신인 사람이라면 누구나 FCSB가 "스테이아" 브랜드 사용권을 상실한 사실을 인정하고, 따라서 당신이 참조한 법원 명령에 따라 이름을 바꿔야 했던 팀인 "스테이아 부쿠레슈티"로 알려진 축구팀이다.그런 만큼 "지금 루마니아 4부 리그에서 진정한 스타우아 부쿠레슈티가 활약하고 있다"는 것은 최소한으로 말하면 혼란스러운 일이다.2017년에 결성된 팀은 스테아우아 브랜드에 대한 권리와 관련해만 '진짜 스테아우아'라고 볼 수 있지만 축구적인 이유로 '진짜 스테아우아'라고 보기는 어렵다. 1947년에 결성된 '진짜 스테아우아'가 1986년 챔피언스리그 우승, 1998년 육군에서 분리돼 2014년 이름을 바꾸고 현재 활동을 하고 있기 때문이다.ng로 FCSB. 80.86.113.226 (대화) 12:40, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답하라]
스타우아 부쿠레슈티는 군대를 떠난 적이 없다.그것은 결코 팔리지 않았다.AFC 스테아우아 부쿠레스티로 알려진 비영리 단체는 축구부의 관리자 역할만 했다.AFC가 존재하지 않자 모든 것이 스타우아 부쿠레슈티 스포츠 클럽으로 돌아왔다.반면에 FC Fcsb는 스테아우아 부쿠레스티로 알려진 적이 없었다.본명과 공식 명칭은 SC Fotbal Club Steaua Bucuresti SA로, Steaua Bucuresti, CSA Steaua Bucuresti 또는 FC Steaua Bucuresti에서 먼 거리였다.그리고 그렇다, SC와 SA는 둘 다 가장 바보 같은 이름인 SC Fotbal Club Fcsb SA로 이름을 바꾼 올해까지 사용했던 공식 명칭의 일부분이다.넌 이 fcsb팀이 스테아우아인 척 하기를 좋아하지만, 그렇지 않아.스테아우아와 공통점이 있는 것은 도난당한 브랜드와 도난당한 이름뿐이었다.그리고 그것은 그것들을 잃어버렸다. - TPTB (토크) 20:44, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 공식 문서와 클럽의 웹사이트에서 당신이 보호하는 척하는 것에 의해 모순되고 있다.http://www.csasteaua.ro/jocuri-sportive/fotbal/ I quote: "In anul 1998, în urma solicitărilor Federației Române de Fotbal și a Ligii Profesioniste de Fotbal din România – care precizau noile cerințe ale UEFA conform cărora nu mai pot fi admise echipe departamentale– secția de fotbal a fost nevoită să se desprindă de clubul mamă CSA Steaua."번역:1998년 루마니아 축구 연맹과 루마니아 축구 리그의 요청에 따라, 국유 클럽을 금지한 새로운 UEFA 자격 요건을 언급하면서 축구 부문은 CSA Steaua에서 분리되었다.다시 말하지만, 넌 혼란스러워!게다가, 당신의 주장은 당신이 상업적인 이름과 팀 이름의 차이를 이해하지 못한다는 것을 다시 한번 증명한다.SC, SA 등은 모두 상업적 명칭이다.예를 들어 Letters SA는 Aktiengesselschaft(독일어) 또는 Corporation(영어), 즉 주식을 소유한 주주가 있는 사회를 의미한다!이 협회는 이전에 알려진 "FC 스타우아 부쿠레슈티" 축구팀을 소유하고 있다.FCSB는 더 이상 스테아우아 브랜드를 사용하지 않는다.사실을 확인하라.
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

AfD 토론에서 Bobo192에 의한 악의와 인신공격에 대한 가정

지난 몇 주 동안, AfD로 옮겨진 크리켓 선수들에 대한 몇 가지 기사가 있었다; 위키피디아:삭제/Tom CranstonWikipedia 관련 기사:삭제/R에 대한 조항 화이트헤드(MCC 크리켓 선수)이 기간 동안 보보192(이하 서명에 나타난 보보라고 한다)는 불신임과 인신공격에 대한 가정을 거듭해 왔다.먼저, 위키백과에서:삭제/Tom Cranston 문서:

  • 사전에 계획된 혼돈 보보는 이 사용자를 반복적으로 "반달"이라고 불렀다.[19] [20]
  • 계속 같은 말만 반복하고 다른 사람들이 어린애처럼 행동한다고 비난했지 단지 그의 관점을 반대한다고[21]
  • 그리고 나서, 양쪽 AfDs를 가로질러 레이크에게 "오피니언은 무효" [22], 그들이 "어린애 같은 성질을 가지고 있다"고 말하고, 레이크를 "사람들을 "애원한다"고 비난하며, [24].
  • 두 번째 토론에서 보보는 또한 블랙잭과 교류하면서 "이 사소한 수준에서 논쟁을 벌이지 않고 얼마나 오래 지속되었는가?" "따라서 정의되지 않은 "엄지의 규칙"과 "기본적인 세부사항"의 결여를 근거로 기사를 삭제한다.너무나 고통스럽게 WP를 통과한다.CRIN 기준", "WP처럼 멍청하고 모순되는 것이 어떻게 다음과 같은지 주목하라.GNG는 당시 합법적인 삭제 투표 기준으로서 존재하지 않았다."

분명히 하기 위해서, 나는 한 토론에서는 보보를 반대했고, 다른 토론에서는 보보를 반대했다.나는 이 아프디즈에서 보보는 인신공격과 모욕적인 논평에 의존하지 않고 토론하기 위해 고군분투하고 있다고 느낀다.해리아스 18:47, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

화이트헤드에 대해, 지명자는 자신이 공신력 가이드라인을 잘못 이해했음을 인정하고 AfD를 인상한 자신의 핵심 이유(즉, 비준수)를 삭제했다.보보는 그 경우에 그 지침서를 옹호한 것이 분명 옳았다. 왜냐하면 그 주제는 부인할 수 없이 주목할 만하기 때문이다.나는 Cranston이 삭제되어서는 안 된다고 생각하지만, 나는 그것이 훨씬 더 경계선이라는 것을 인정한다.내 생각에, 보보는 내가 개인적으로 WP를 가로지른다고 생각하는 레이크의 태도에 화가 났다.NOTHERE 라인 – 그는 바로 그러한 이유로 올해 초 루그넛에 의해 ANI에 보고되었다. 19:19, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 논평- 나는 보보가 반대되는 견해의 존재를 전혀 잘 받아들이지 않고 있다는 것에 동의한다.그가 그 AfD의 참가자들을 화나게 하고 특히 나를 미끼로 해서 폭발을 일으키려 했다는 것은 의심의 여지가 없다.나는 그가 왜 나를 지목했는지 잘 모르겠다. 그리고 비록 내가 이 도발 앞에서 완전히 예의 바르게 지내려고 노력했지만, 나는 거짓말쟁이고 위선자라고 불리는 것을 고맙게 여기지.행정적 구제책의 경우, 나는 이 사용자를 몇 달 동안 개별 크리켓 관련 AfDs에 대한 투표와 회신 없음으로 제한할 것을 제안하고 싶다.그가 다른 의견이 합법적으로 존재할 수 있다는 것을 받아들이면 그의 행동이 개선될지도 모른다.나는 위키프로젝트 크리켓 전체를 검토할 때라고 제안한다; 그곳은 위키피디아에서 (적어도 ARS가 무명으로 퇴색한 이후) 가장 독성이 강한 곳이며, 우리가 여기서 보아온 것과 같은 초방어적인 언사들을 가지고 있다.나는 적어도 두 명의 위키프로젝트 편집자가 같은 행동 문제를 가지고 있다는 것을 생각할 수 있다.Reyk 19:23, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
WP에 대한 원한이 있으시겠죠?적어도 3번의 AfDs에서 당신이 한 코멘트에서 명백하게 드러난 CRIC.WP에 대한 귀하의 반대:CRIN, WP의 일부인 공신력 가이드라인:N스포츠는 대다수의 편집자와 관리자들이 폭넓게 수용하고 있다는 점을 감안할 때 걱정스러울 정도로 불합리하다.이것이 바로 여러분이 옳든 그르든 NOTHERE라고 인식되는 이유다 – 우리의 인상은 당신이 우리의 프로젝트를 방해하려고 한다는 것이다." 위키피디아에서 가장 독성이 강한 곳"과 같은 논평은 엉망이고, 나는 당신이 주장하는 모든 소유권 문제의 목록을 제공하도록 촉구한다.게다가, "최소한 두" CRIC 멤버는 누구인가? 19:40, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
공손하게 같은 질문을 한다."행동적 문제"를 가진 "적어도 두 사람" 멤버는 누구인가?나는 욕을 하는 것을 거부하지만, 결국에는, 만약 당신이 클레임을 제기하고 그것을 지지할 수 없다면, 그 클레임은 무효가 된다.만약 당신이 여기서나 지금이나, 특히 내가 질문을 받고 가능한 한 이성적인 태도를 유지하려고 노력하는 대화에서 그들의 이름을 제공할 수 없다면, 나는 당신이 이 비난을 없앨 것을 제안한다.보보. 10:37, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 WP라고 주장했던 유일한 사람은백과사전을 편집하기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다.당신은 또한 이전에 나를 User:의 미트푸펫이라고 불렀다.StantAnselm, 그가 너에게 동의하지 않았기 때문에 네가 그의 종교를 헐뜯고 있을 무렵에 말이야.그리고 물론 나의 편집 이력을 보면 누구나 WP라는 주장이 다음과 같은 것을 한눈에 알 수 있다.NOTHERE는 거짓이다.ReykYO! 19:49, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
그의 종교를 비방한다고?그것은 새것이다.내가 그런 짓을 했는지 나조차도...증빙을 부탁한다.보보. 20:16, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 있다:User_talk:StantAnselm/2015b#Apology_demanded.2017년YO! 9월 14일 레이크 20:20 (UTC)[응답하라]
내 실수.나는 네가 나를 지칭하는 줄 알았어.미안, 보보.20:29, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답하라]
이것은 "반대하는 견해"와는 아무 상관이 없다.이는 일등석 외모를 가진 크리켓 선수를 무작위로 골라 '싫다'고 말한 뒤, 어떻게든 현장에서 9년 동안 생존해 온 기사를 AFD 공지로 바로 태그하는 것과 관련이 있다.수천 개의 다른 WP가 있다.다른 사용자도 정확히 같은 이유로 태그를 지정할 수 있는 CRIC 기사.WP 작성 이후 모든 유사한 AfD 토론:CRIN은 완전히 시간 낭비였다.보보. 20:03, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
어디서부터 시작할지...아야야카람바맨 처음부터.
  • 응. 내가 그 페이지에 언급했듯이, 예수 그리스도 엘비스 교회를 위한 출품작은 지루한 학생들이 그들의 선생님이 돌아섰을 때 만들어 낸 CSD G1의 허튼소리처럼 보여.나는 여전히 이것이 거짓이라고 믿지 않으며, 나는 여전히 이것이 BJAODN 파괴 행위 이외의 것이라고 믿을 수 없다.나는 이 사용자가 심지어 그들이 바로 AfD 토론에 그것을 올렸다고 지적한 사실을 고려했다.어설프고 예의 없는 말을 쓰다니
  • 나의 "아이처럼 대함" 논평은 사실 처음에는 내 자신의 판단을 비판하면서, 내가 계속해서 지적할 수 있는 기준과 사람들의 꺼림칙하고 대답할 수 없는 것과 관련된 진정한 질문을 하고 싶은 것을 언급하였다.
  • 일반적으로 말해서, 만약 누군가 의견을 가지고 있다면, 그들은 그것을 고수한다.나는 진실한 질문에 진실한 답변을 요구했고 한 가지도 받지 못했다.나는 그 질문을 물어본 사람에게 답안을 볼 수 있는 가장 좋은 방법이 되라고 정중하게 말하려고 노력했다.아마도 핑의 필요성은 존재하지 않았을 것이다.나는 순전히 방문했을 때 페이지가 다시 올라왔는지 확인하고 싶었다.이것은 내가 AfD에 대한 나의 의견을 따를 수 있도록 내 자신의 목적을 위한 것이었다.
  • 만약 누군가가 "단일 게임"이라는 생각에 반대한다면, 대체 해결책은 무엇인가?"나는 이것이 문제라는 것을 발견한다"는 것은 정당한 불평이 아니다."나는 이것이 문제라는 것을 발견했고 내가 이 주제에 대한 지식을 바탕으로 제안하는 해결책이 여기에 있다."는 것이다.내가 핑을 한 이유는 내 자신의 이익을 위해서였다.만약 이것이 불필요했다면, 나는 진심으로 미안하다.
  • 만약 당신이 "제발 헛소리를 하지 마!"라고 말한다면, 이것은 문제의 사용자에 대한 모욕처럼 느껴질 것이다.그리고, 스스로에게 내가 "그럴 수 있다"고 주장함으로써, 나를 2인치 키로 만들려고 했던, 매우 난처한 상승이다.그게 원래 의도였던 것 같아, 그래서, 일이 끝났어.해당 이용자가 단순히 "댓글을 다시 쓰는 것을 고려해 주시겠습니까?"라고 말했다면, 나는 다시 생각하지 않고 그렇게 했을지도 모른다.
  • 여러분과 나 둘 다 사람들이 크리켓에 대해 처음은 몰라도 AfD에 톰 크랜스턴과 비슷한 기사를 보내고 있다는 것, 또는 내가 위키피디아 출신 이후로 존재해 온 일반적으로 통용되는 공신력 가이드라인, 단 하나의 FC 출연도 만족스럽다는 것을 알고 있다.나는 항상 이런 기준이 충족되는 한, 스타일에 대한 불평이 있다면, "하지만 나는 그 기사에 동의하지 않는다. 왜냐하면..." WP 가이드라인을 명확하게 충족시킬 때, 불필요할 뿐만 아니라 시간 낭비다.
  • GNG는 S 당시 삭제 추론으로 인용된 적이 없다.페레라 기사는 처음에 삭제되었다.그 토론이든 다른 토론이든.나는 여전히 그 기사가 SNG 요건을 통과한다는 것이 명백할 때 믿을 수 없을 정도로 과장된 지침이 어떻게 어떤 영향력을 행사하는지 이해할 수 없다.그러면 'Cuz GNG 삭제' 댓글이 좀 수상해 보이지 않는가?보보. 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC) 19:51[응답]
  • "우리가 온라인에 접속할 수 있다는 증거에 따르면, 플레이어는 중요한 커버리지가 없기 때문에 GNG를 충족시키지 못한다. 우리가 가진 것은 순전히 통계적인 것이다."(나)
  • "그래, 결국 WP:GNG가 그들 모두를 압도한다..."(너, 보보)
  • "이것은 WP를 통과하지 못한다.NSPORT는 "게다가, 일반 공신력 지침을 충족하기 위해서는 독립형 조항이 필요하다." " (StanSelm)
  • 보시다시피 GNG는 S에서 삭제 추론(자신에게도 기사 유지의 지지자)으로 분명히 인용되었다.페레라 AFD.그러나 솔직히 말해서 그것은 어쨌든 요점을 벗어난 것이다.2017년 9월 14일 해리아스 20:23 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP를 인용하는 것은 이번이 처음이며 앞으로도 그럴 것이다.삭제 논의 중 GNG.솔직히 말해서, GNG가 다른 사람들에 의하면 그들 모두를 능가한다는 것을 나는 알고 있었다. 이 토론이 있기 일주일 전까지만 해도 GNG가 명백히 유효한 삭제 사유로서 존재한다는 것조차 몰랐는데, 그 때 사람들이 그것을 마구 인용하기 시작했다...그래서, 내 서투른 표현은 사과할게.보보. 20:27, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 아이러니는 내가 크리켓 선수들에 대한 AFD 토론에 거의 기여하지 않는다는 것이다. 왜냐하면 나는 모든 관련 당사자들이 우리가 기사 포함에 대한 기준을 매우 쉽게 이해할 수 있다는 사실을 알고 있기 때문이다.보보. 2017년 9월 14일 20:14 (UTC)[응답]


나는 이 대화에서 모든 사람에게 집단 사과를 하고 싶다.나의 좌절감은 내가 건강상 형편없는 시간을 보내고 있다는 사실, 그리고 내가 현재의 사생활 사건을 잘 받아들이지 않고 있다는 사실 때문에 고조되고 있다.난 절대 안 한다.나는 모든 바보 같은 사소한 것들을 터무니없이 큰 수준으로 격상시키는 개인적인 문제를 가지고 있다.나는 이 두 가지 문제에 대해 전혀 변명을 하지 않는다. 이 두 가지 문제가 동시에 발생했다는 사실은 나와 이 문제를 읽는 모든 사람들에게 그저 불행한 우연의 일치일 뿐이며, 내 관점에서 볼 때 여러분은 무한한 좌절감을 느낄 수 있을 것이다.

이 바보 같은 사소한 문제들이 지나가자마자, 나는 정상적이고, 강하고, 그리고 갈 준비가 되어, 지난 몇 년 동안 우리 모두가 열정적으로 해왔던 프로젝트에 완전히 협력할 준비가 되어있을 것이라는 약속밖에 할 수 없다.다른 누구에게도 평등한 신용을 부정할 의도가 없이, 내가 잭을 아주 가까운 친구로 여기고 있다는 것을 여러분 모두는 알고 있는데, 그는 지난 세월 동안 위키를 오가며 너무나 많은 일들을 도와주었다.

미안하다.여기까지 올 생각은 없었어.나는 결코 나의 좌절감이 그렇게 화난 모습으로 나타나기를 의도하지 않았다.그리고 만약 당신이 이 사과를 플라스틱으로 받아들이기로 결정했다면, 그렇게 하십시오.하지만 이 모든 것에도 불구하고, 나는 여전히 우리가 우리의 모든 목표에 도달할 때까지 프로젝트에서 강력하게 협력할 수 있다고 느낀다는 것을 알아라.보보. 21:12, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 위키피디아를 파괴한 어떤 역사를 가진 반달이라는 당신의 비난을 철회한다면 당신의 사과에 대해 기분이 좋아질 것이다.나는 그 기사가 어리석었다는 것에 전적으로 동의하지만, 2003년은 다른, 그리고 훨씬 더 멍청한 시기였다.그 기사는 2004년 나의 RfA 당시에도 여전히 생방송이었고, 당시 어느 누구도 그 기사를 게재한 것에 대해 나를 기물 파손 혐의로 고발한 적이 없었다. 당시 내 자랑 페이지에 자랑스럽게 실려 있었음에도 불구하고 말이다.나는 유머/공감 시도로 그것을 언급했고 당신은 나를 공격하기 위해 그것을 이용했다. 당신이 AfD 왼쪽과 중앙의 모든 사람들을 공격했던 것처럼.당신의 공격적인 행동이 그대로 유지된다면 사과하는 것은 아무 의미가 없다.PMC(대화) 21:53, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
솔직히 말해서 나는 그것을 완전히 잊고 싶었다.당신이 실제로 AfD에서 지적한 사실은 그것이 존재한다는 것을 내가 알고 있었다는 사실뿐이었습니다...그리고 내가 말했듯이, 나는 완전히 기꺼이 잊어버렸다.난 여전히 그래.어쩌면 우리가 사이트에 20만개의 기사를 가지고 있었을 때 이런 일이 일어났던 건 아닐까?내가 가입했을 때 그 수였다.WP를 잊지 말자.BJAODN은 여전히 떠들썩했다(내가 두 사람을 연결하고 있다는 것은 아니다, 단지 과거의 안개 속에서 오랫동안 잊혀져 온 것을 지적했을 뿐이다).시대가 바뀌고, 기사 공신력 기준이 바뀐다.크리켓 기사만 빼고!그리고 그것은 결코 하지 않았다.헉, 나 자신도 테스트 크리켓 선수 몇 명을 만들었는데, 우리 모두가 다소 빨리 끝마친 기사의 일부분이었다.
이 논평에서 나의 요점은 단지 내가 13년 전에 처음 합류했을 때의 상황을 상기시키는 것이다.아주 다른 시간들.하지만 나는 여전히 내가 이 기사들을 만들고 옹호하는데 아무런 잘못도 하지 않았다고 믿는다.내가 그렇게 화난 방법으로 그렇게 했다는 사실은 솔직히 성격에 맞지 않는다.보보. 22:07, 2017년 9월 14일 (UTC)[응답]
네가 일부러 잘못 기억하고 있는 건지는 모르겠지만, 나는 그것을 내 토크 페이지와 내 토크 페이지에서만 꺼냈어.당신은 내가 위키피디아를 파괴한 전력이 있다고 비난한 사람이다.그때 나를 비방하려고 AFD에서 그 얘기를 꺼낸 건 야.그걸 잊으려 하지 않았던 너야.는 여전히 AFD에 대한 비난도 하지 않았고 그것이 여기서 잘못되었다는 것도 인정하지 않은 사람이다.PMC(대화) 21:38, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
얼룩지게?그것은 약간 과장된 것이다.네가 기꺼이 거기에 발을 들여놓았다는 사실은 전혀 다른 문제야.보보. 23:49, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
아, 알았어.그래서 위의 당신의 "사과"는 당신이 말한 것만큼 가치가 없었고 당신은 다른 사용자들에게 예의 바르게 대하는 것에 실제로 신경쓰지 않는다.알게 되서 좋다.PMC(대화) 00:56, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 사과한 "무가치한"것과는 아무 상관도 없어.사실은 위키피디아에 13년간 몸담았던 나의 스포츠포용 기준은 이제 어린이가 이해할 수 있을 정도로 쉽게 따라할 수 있는 규칙을 가지고 있는 단계로 넘어갔지만, 그 규칙들이 그들을 슬프게 만들기 때문에 그 규칙들을 어기는 사람들이 있다는 것이다.보보. 07:38, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 여기 게시된 어떤 것도 실제로 읽는 데 관심이 있다는 인상을 조금도 갖고 있지 않지만, 이번 6월부터 NSports 문제에 관한 RfC에 대해 알고 계신지 아십니까? NSports 문제에 관한 RfC는 Notability(스포츠)포함한 주제별 공신력 가이드라인이 재구독이라는 명확의견 일치가 있다는 결론적인 진술로 종결되었다.일반 공증 가이드라인에 대한 의견 또는 이에 대한 보충. 주장은 단순히 WP의 하위지침 준수를 인용하는 것보다 더 정교해야 한다.삭제 조항 논의의 맥락에서 NSPORT?당신은 우리가 아이들보다 멍청하거나 규칙이 우리를 슬프게 하거나 다음에 버리기로 결정한 어떤 터무니없는 헛소리들 때문에 합의에 기반한 정책을 따르는 것을 거부하는 다른 모든 사람들에 대해 계속 떠들어대고 있다. 하지만 내가 줄곧 말했듯이, 의견 일치는 당신과 일치하지 않는다.NSPORT < GNG. ♠PMC(토크) 08:19, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
WP:CRIN은 항상 같았고 한 사람도 합리적으로 그것에 도전한 적이 없다.보보. 09:05, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 이것을 그만둘 수 있으면 좋겠지만 내가 이 말을 하지 않는 것은 위선적일 것이다.위에 "행동상의 문제가 있는 최소 두 명의 구성원"에 대한 질문을 추가했다.이 실 전체가 내 개인의 좌절에 바탕을 두고 있는 것으로 보아, 이 정도까지 '적어도 두 사람'의 개인을 외치고 이름을 붙이려 하지 않는 것은 비겁한 짓이다.나는 잭도 이 정당성을 인정해 줄 것이라고 확신한다.현실을 직시하자, 만약 내가 똑같은 비난을 했다면 사람들은 아마 내가 공세에 나서 인신공격을 하는 것으로 간주할 것이다.
레이크, 난 우리가 나아갈 수 있는 지점에 도달했다고 생각했기 때문에 이 질문을 해야 했던 것이 슬프다.너와 PMC에게 내가 잭을 가장 가까운 위키백과 친구 중 한 명으로 생각하고, 내가 아는 그 누구보다도 크리켓에 대해 더 많이 알고 있는 사람, 그리고 두 분 다 보셨듯이, 내가 나를 방어할 준비가 되어 있는 것보다 훨씬 더 쉽게 나를 방어할 용의가 있는 수준에 예의 바른 사람으로 여기는 것이 분명해야 한다.보보. 10:37, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 주석- WT의 마지막 스레드를 확인하십시오.CRIC는 위키백과 주제가 독성이 있는 이유를 보여주는 좋은 예다.세 명의 경선자가 나를 험담하고 욕하는 것은 이곳을 독한 곳으로 만든다.Reyk 16:41, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답하라]
유일하게 독성이 있는 것은 주제 영역에 대한 이해가 거의 없거나 전혀 없는 편집자들이 경솔한 삭제 지명으로 모든 사람들의 시간을 낭비하는 것이다.어쩌면 그들은 주제에 대한 무지로 인해 상황이 좋지 않다고 가정하는 대신 그들 자신의 지식 기반을 늘리는 데 시간을 보낼 수도 있을 것이다.러그넛Fire Walk with Me 18:27, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
꼭 그렇진 않아, 루그넛문제는 이들에 동의하는 사용자들에게 있어 S와 같은 기사를 유발하는 것이다. 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)는 위키피디아 기사로 6년 후 삭제될 예정이며, 2년 동안의 셰나니건들이 뒤따를 것이다.크리켓에 대해 조금이라도 아는 사람은 누구나 S를 안다.페레라는 기사를 쓸 권리가 있다.누군가, 누구라도 "좋지 않아, 없애버려"라고 말하는 데 6년이 걸린 것이 이상해 보이지 않는가?
위키피디아의 주제가 기사를 보증하지 않는 한 위키피디아에서 6년 동안 지속되지 않을 것이라는 것을 아는 사람은 누구나 안다.우리는 지금 기본적인 상식을 말하고 있다...보보. 2017년 9월 15일 18:55 (UTC)[응답]
  • 설명 - 링크를 수정하지 않으면 존재하지 않는 페이지로 이동하게 된다.보보. 16:44, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
이 사람들이 누구인지 언급할 의향이 없거나 언급할 수 없는 경우, 이 프로젝트가 "동일한 행동 문제를 가진 위키프로젝트의 편집자 2명 이상"을 포함하고 있다고 비난하지 마십시오.우리는 거의 24시간 동안 빙글빙글 돌았지만, 실제로는 아무 데도 가지 못했다.
"존경하게 같은 질문을 한다"는 문구가 시작되는 적절한 장소에서 이 질문에 답하십시오.그렇지 않으면 대화는 산산조각이 날 것이다.보보. 16:52, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 관리자 마감 제안.사용자:레이크는 자신이 어떤 사람인지 자신을 드러냈으며, 문을 열어야 한다.그는 WP를 위반했다.그가 WP에 기초하여 건설적인 노력을 방해하려고 하기 때문에 여기에 있지 않다.아이돈트라이크릿.그의 접근방식은 대립적이며 그의 삭제 합리성은 뒤틀리고 잘못 이끌도록 고안되었다.Whitehead AfD에는 부정할 수 없는 예가 있다.그가 삭제한 이유는 "명사조차 알 수 없을 정도로 빈약한 통계 데이터베이스 입력 자료와 출처를 토대로 한 스포츠인에 대한 인명 기사"이다.내 생각에 WP는 말할 필요도 없이 다음과 같다.CRIN은 이것과 같은 내용 없는 마이크로 스텁의 무리의 창조를 장려한다면 그것의 표준이 너무 느슨하다."이후 기사가 확대됐지만, 그가 말하는 '못난 스포츠인'에 대한 '마이크로스텁' 버전이다.누구나 알 수 있듯이 이 기사는 인포박스와 4줄짜리 단락으로 화이트헤드는 선수뿐만 아니라 후원자였고, 14번의 1군 경기에 출전했기 때문에 거의 '불통'을 하지 않았다는 내용을 담고 있다.문헌 자료에는 AfD가 제기되기 전에는 분명히 사용되지 않았지만, 여러 출처가 있다는 것을 보여준다.에서 말한 것처럼 레이크는 비논리적이고 근거 없는 가정을 할 때 완전한 무지를 드러낸다.WP 이외에:여기 말고, 는 WP가 있다고 제안한다.CIR 발행도.마지막으로, 우리가 그와 동의하지 않는 것을 싫어하기 때문에 그가 전체 프로젝트를 나쁘게 말하는 것은 WP를 심각하게 침해하는 것이다.NPAWP:Civil. WP:CRIC은 완벽하지는 않지만 건설적이고 긍정적이며 환영받는다.그것은 다른 어떤 프로젝트와도 다름이 없고, 더 나쁠 것도 없으며 확실히 더 나쁠 것도 없다.프로젝트 전체를 "독성"이라고 비난하는 사람은 누구든 추방되어야 한다. 21:59, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 계속 솔직한 사과를 할 수밖에 없다.나의 좌절은 순전히 현재 상황에 달려 있으며, 주어진 시간 동안, 나는 더 이상 내가 초래한 문제들을 야기시키지 않을 것이라고 약속할 뿐이다.이 두 가지 문제가 동시에 제기되어 나의 좌절감이 스스로를 악화시킨 것은 그야말로 수치스러운 일이다.
"expension"이 정답이 아닌 것 같아, 잭.위키피디아에는 멋진 구절이 있다."막대를 내려놓고 말 시체에서 물러나라."공개적으로 삭제론자임을 인정하고 자신의 의제를 밀어붙이는 등 포함 기준으로 망치는 사람은 누구나 이 사업을 망칠까 봐 두려워한다고 본다."Me no likey" 이외의 삭제 논리는 없다.없애버려. lol." 크리켓 프로젝트 기준은 위키피디아에 있는 다른 모든 경쟁 팀 스포츠의 프로젝트 기준과 동일하다.축구, 미식축구, 야구, 아이스하키, 농구.왜 하나의 프로젝트를 위해서 하나의 기사가 고통을 받아야 하는가?NPOV를 믿는 것과 삭제주의를 철학으로 믿는 것 사이에는 논리적 연관성이 없다.위키피디아의 짙은 어둠 속에서 나는 ECC 크리켓 선수들을 추가했다.오스트리아, 벨기에...난 바로 옆에 있는 다른 사람을 잊었다.
슬픈 사실은 S에 대한 논리적인 해결책이 없다는 것이다.페레라 문제.만일 우리가 순전히 이차적 원천에 의존하고 있다면, 나의 상당부분은 S를 치료해야 한다고 가정한다. 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)수레쉬 페레라(올드 캄브리아인 크리켓 선수)는 서로 다른 두 크리켓 선수다.그리고 나는 여전히 위키피디아가 다음과 같이 믿고 있다.삭제/S 조항 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)는 삭제표 출처를 고려할 때 유효한 합의점을 제공하지 않는다.
  1. 의심스러운 삭제 1: 나는 좋아하지 않는다.치워 lol. (IP 주소)
  2. 의심스러운 삭제 2: 로그에 유효한 이름 변경으로 표시되지 않기 때문에 사용자의 존재 여부 및 존재하지 않는 계정의 이름이 변경되었는지 여부에 대한 신뢰할 수 있는 정보가 없는 계정.
개인적으로 나는 이것이 모든 것을 말해준다고 생각한다.삭제표 중 두 표가 "IP"와 "IP로서" (둘 중 어느 쪽도 정상적인 AfD 논쟁에서 우위를 차지하지 않을 경우), 이것은 주소의 의견에 관계없이 AfD 대화를 완전히 무효화한다.이것을 각 선수에 대한 기사에 대한 링크를 제공하지 않고 1등 팀별로 크리켓 선수들을 나열하는 것은 NPOV에 대한 노골적인 위반이라는 사실과 결합시킨다.보보. 23:49, 2017년 9월 15일 (UTC)[응답]
앞으로 어떻게 되든 쿠루네갈라 YCC 선수가 한 명이라도 빠지면 어떡하지?글쎄, 내 선수 명단 페이지에는 106개의 레드링크가 있어. 그 이후로 팀에 나온 사람들은 말할 것도 없고.내가 계산해 보면 쿠루네갈라 YCC에서 1군 1군 출전을 한 선수는 29명, 총 162명이다.원하신다면 마스터리스트를 업데이트해드릴 수 있는데...얼마 후, 내 뇌는 튀겨졌다.보보. 00:01, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 잭뿐만 아니라 이 대화의 다른 참가자들에게도 기꺼이 그 질문을 할 것이다.NPOV의 노골적인 위반에 대해 우리는 어떻게 해야 할까? 즉, 우리는 1등석 외모를 가진 크리켓 선수들을 허용하고 다른 선수들은 허용하지 않을 것이다.보보. 00:24, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

Tom Cranston의 AfD 삭제 투표 요약:

  1. 한번 해봤다.단연 눈에 띈다.하지만 어쨌든 없애버려.비록 그가 기준을 충족시키긴 했지만, 이것은 중요하지 않다.
  2. 이 크리켓 선수는 NSPORT 통과는 확실해. 하지만 어쨌든 제거해.
  3. 기준을 충족하지만 "중대한 기여".
  4. 단일 게임과 통계 데이터베이스의 목록은 공신력을 보여주기에 불충분하다. (아니오.이것이 바로 WP:CRIN...) 보보의 포인트다.00:10, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 이 대화를 읽는 모든 사람은 한 가지를 확신할 수 있다.당신의 위키피디아 "철학"과 상관없이, 이것과 S. 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)는 향후 어느 시점에 재평가를 받게 될 가능성이 높다...보보. 00:24, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 잭, WP에 정직하고 장기적인 기여자로서:CRIC, 다음 단계는 뭐지?보보. 00:43, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 존중하지만, 그것은 완전하고 완전히 거짓이며, 그 페이지에 있는 누구의 투표도 정확하게 특징지을 수 없는 완전한 실패다.문제의 AfD는 당신의 숙독을 위해 연결되어 있다: 위키백과:삭제/Tom Cranston에 대한 문서.해당 페이지의 삭제!보트를 훨씬 더 정확하게 묘사하는 것은 그들이 그 기사가 WP를 통과할 수 있다는 것에 요약해서 동의한다는 것이다.CRIN 또는 WP:NSports - 예: WP 스크래치 가능:단일 일치 기준 CRIN(사용자:마법사의 파라오)와 [t]그는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 통해 주제가 WP의 요건을 좁게 통과한다는 것을 증명했다.NSPORT(사용자:Hack) 그러나, 모든 사람들은 이 기사가 WP를 충족시키지 못한다는 것에 단호히 동의한다.예를 들어 GNG 및 피사체가 알 수 없는 경우: WP:GNG를 포괄적으로 실패한다(사용자:마법사의 파라오) 및 WP 실패:GNG, 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에서 중요한 취재 대상이 된 근거 기사(사용자:그래서 아무도 그가 완전히 유명하다고 말하지 않는다. 어쨌든 제거해라.완전 곱창이로군.덜 날카로운 관점에서; 당신이 결정적으로 분명한 관점을 가지고 있을 때 반대되는 관점을 요약하려고 시도하는 것은 매우 현명하지 못하다.Mr rndude (대화) 04:22, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 빙고. 이것은 단순히 어떤 사람들이 반대되는 관점의 존재를 받아들이지 못하고 그것 때문에 마구잡이로 몰아붙이는 경우일 뿐이다.나는 나를 금지하려는 위의 "제안"이 터무니없다는 것은 말할 나위도 없고, WP측의 부실한 행동의 완벽한 예라고 생각한다.내가 관심을 끌려고 했던 CRIC.나를 막으려는 진정성 있는 부탁인지, 아니면 나를 자극하려는 의도인지 모르겠다.전자의 경우, 사용자:블랙잭은 그러한 요청을 하기 위해 별도의 하위섹션을 시작해야 한다.만약 후자가, 음, 누군가 나를 위해 내 주장을 하고 싶다면, 나는 화를 내지 않을 것이다.2017년 9월 16일 04:50 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 반대되는 관점과 거의 10년 동안 우리가 고수해온 가이드라인이 지금까지 우리에게 전혀 해를 끼치지 않는 것 사이에는 차이가 있다.다시 말해서, 우리는 모든 1급 크리켓 선수들의 완전한 목록을 가지게 될 것이다...반대했던 사람들 말고는?그것은 어떻게 작동합니까?이것은 "대립적인 관점"에 관한 것이 아니다.이것은 우리가 수년간 고수해 온 매우 이해하기 쉬운 기준에 어긋나는 것이다.
이 기사가 WP를 통과한다는 데 우리 셋이 모두 동의한다는 사실:CRIN은 WP가 아니라는 사실을 증명한다.CRIC 멤버들은 주장을 펴려고 노력한다.보보. 07:02, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내가 위에서 물어본것과 같은 질문을 레이크에게도 여기 아래에서 하고 있다."최소한 두 가지" WP와 같은 비난을 피하기 위해:CRIC 회원들은 행동상의 문제를 가지고 있고, 그들이 누구인지를 우리에게 말해줄 수 있는 동전을 갖지 않는 것은 비겁한 짓이다.이것을 정당화하지 않으면 우리는 그것에 "초대 필요" 딱지를 찰싹찰싹 찰싹찰 것이다.보보. 07:21, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 이미 위의 질문에 대답하였다.인신공격은 그만두십시오.내가 미끼가 되지 않을 거라는 걸 아직 알아내지 못했다면...미안하지만, 나는 이제 블랙잭의 금지 요청과 나에 대한 터무니없는 거짓 비난에 집중해야겠어.레이크 07:44, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여기서 행정관의 최종적인 논거를 읽는 것은 매우 재미있다.
"엄지의 법칙은 정확하게 그것이며 더 넓은 포함 기준에 반하여 기사의 상세한 검사를 대체하지 않는다."(어떤 "와이더 포함 기준"?정의되지 않은 개인적 의견과 관련된 일종의 비정책적 주장?)
생년월일과 같은 기본적인 세부사항이 없기 때문에 상속불명성 주장에 무게를 두는 것이 더 넓은 정책에 근거해 삭제하자는 주장보다 타당해 보인다.
그 글은 피험자의 생년월일을 몰라서 삭제되었다.미쳤어, 보보.08:35, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답하라]

좋아, 이 모든 대화가 방향 없이 엉망진창이 됐어사람들이 내 주요 질문을 만들 의향이 있다면 요점을 잃지 않도록 요약하는 것.

  • 만약 내가 29개의 쿠루네갈라 YCC 레드링크에 관한 기사를 단 하나의 1등석 출연으로 추가한다면, 나는 그것들이 다 WP의 수년간의 협력에 반하여 삭제될 것이라고 가정한다.CRIC, 갑자기 FC의 외모가 충분하지 않다고 결정했다고?
  • 만약 우리가 앞으로 1등석 한 명을 가진 무작위 크리켓 선수들에게 윌리 닐리라는 꼬리표를 붙이기로 결정한다면 이 문제의 해결책은 무엇일까?
  • WP의 위치:만약 우리가 백과사전을 만드는 우리의 주요 목적이 무효가 되도록 무작위로 선택된 특정한 크리켓 선수들에 대한 특정한 기사를 추가하는 것이 금지된다면, CRIC는 하나의 프로젝트로 갈 필요가 있다.보보. 10:08, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 풍성한 청어 떼에 흐트러지지 않고 이 논의의 요점으로 돌아가자.여기서 문제는 User의 행동이다.Bobo192사용자:블랙잭사용자:다른 이유 없이 장기간 인신공격에 시달린 루그넛WP에 동의하지 않는다.CRIC의 공신력 및 포함 표준.지금까지 그들 사이에 있는 이 세 사람은 나를 거짓말쟁이라고, 바보라고, 위선자라고, 겁쟁이라고, 파괴적이고, 무능하고, 유치하다고 불렀다.나는 인신공격의 누명을 쓰고, 백과사전을 편집하기 위해 이곳에 오지 않았다는 누명을 쓰고, 블록과 금지로 위협을 받아왔다.그리고 이것은 내가 논쟁에서 손을 떼려고 시도한 후 입니다. WP:CRIC는 분명히 허락하지 않았다.보보의 (현재의) 관련 없는 발언들이 오랫동안 닫혀 있던 개별적인 AfDs에 대해 주의를 산만하게 하는 것에 말려들지 말자.고려해야 할 진정한 질문은 다음과 같다.

  • 지역사회는 보보, 루거츠, 블랙잭을 크리켓 관련 기사의 유일한 포함 중재자로 받아들이고 있는가?
  • 지역사회는 그러한 포함 기준에 동의하지 않는다는 이유로 나를 상대로 장기간 지속된 인격적 학대 및 괴롭힘 캠페인을 받아들이고 있는가?

나도 안 받아.Reyk 10:38, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

안녕. 넌 지금 한 가지 주제만 있다고 주장하다가 완전히 다른 주제로 바꿔버렸어.어라
질문 1: 나, 잭, 루구츠 모두 위키백과에 "지키기"로 투표했다.삭제/R에 대한 조항 화이트헤드(MCC 크리켓 선수)그러나 AfD 대화에 우리만 기여하는 것은 아니다.그래서 아니, 우리는 '솔로 중재자'가 아니라, 우리가 서로 동의하는 것은 우리 각자에게 달려 있고, 오랫동안 확립된 가이드라인에 근거한 우리 자신의 개인적인 의견에 달려 있다.
질문 2: 이 AfD에서 당신은 소수다.당신이 소수자에 속해 있고 우리와 의견이 다른 것은 "개인적인 학대 및 괴롭힘"이라는 캠페인의 촉매제가 아니다.당신은 WP에 반대하지 않는다.기사로 변환된 Microsoft Excel 파일을 "마음에 들지 않는다"는 이유만으로 CRIN은 모든 종류의 정책 지침에서 사용할 수 있다.보보. 10:47, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
지금 레이크는 자신의 적색 청어를 마구 던지고 있다."솔루 결정자"는 없다. 우리는 오랫동안 확립된 공신력 합의를 이용한다.그러니 자신에게 더 이상의 당혹감을 주지 말고 모든 사람의 시간을 낭비하지 않도록 그것에 자신을 익혀야 한다.러그넛Fire Walk with Me 11시 14분, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
기사가 S를 좋아한다는 사실. 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)가 명확한 통과 지침에도 불구하고 삭제된 것은 단순히 WP가 아니라는 증거다.크리켓 AFD 논의에 기여하는 오랫동안 확립된 공신력 가이드라인을 알고 있는 CRIC 회원들.나는 여전히 S를 믿는다고 주장한다.페레라(Kurunegala Youth Cricket Club Cricket Club Cricketer)의 AfD 토론은 특히 삭제 !보트 중 두 개가 AfDs에 응답할 수 없는 사용자들에 의해 제공되었기 때문에, 아무런 합의도 제공하지 못했다.보보. 11:27, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

Bobo가 AfD의 결과에 항소하기를 원한다면, 정확한 장소는 WP:DRV. 이 논의는 보보와 다른 사람들에 의해 나에게 거듭된 불신임과 인신공격에 대한 가정에 관한 것이다.반복한다: 내가 WP에 동의하지 않는다는 이유만으로 나를 장기간에 걸친 학대 공방에 처하게 하는 것이 정당한가?CRIC의 공신력 요건 해석?보보가 아닌 다른 사람의 의견을 들어보자.Reyk 14:44, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

깨진 프로젝트를 방어할 필요는 없다.만약 "침해주의자"/"제외주의자" 철학과 같은 것이 없다면 이것은 문제가 되지 않을 것이다.우리가 새로 추가할 기사가 많을 때 유일한 문제가 될 것이다.내가 말했듯이 쿠루네갈라 YCC 선수 29명 중 1등석만 있으면 기사를 쓸 수 있었다.배타주의의 위선은 오랫동안 지켜온 가이드라인에도 불구하고 기사가 가이드라인을 분명히 통과했을 때 "충분히 충분하지 않다"고 주장할 것이라는 점이다.쿠루네갈라 YCC가 혼자가 아니라는 걸 보여주기 위해 다른 팀을 찾아서 통계를 작성해야겠어.보보. 16:44, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
란카 크리켓 클럽, 114명 1등석 7명 모두 레드링크.

내가 보보로부터 주제넘은 해설을 넘어서는 대답을 얻을 수 있을까?내 정당한 불평이 이 쓰레기로 넘쳐나는 것 같다.반복한다: 내가 WP에 동의하지 않는다는 이유만으로 나를 가차없는 인신공격에 시달리는 것이 정당한가?CRIC를 포함 및 알림 표준에 적용하시겠습니까?2017년 9월 16일 17:10 (UTC)[응답]

내 논평은 결코 무관한 것이 아니었고 당신이 내 논평에 그런 식으로 낙인찍고 무너지는 것은 역겹다.네가 위에서 물었던 두 가지 질문, 나는 대답했다.바로.네가 그들에게 물어본 지 9분 후야.7시간 전.당신의 전체적인 근거는 당신이 옳든 그르든 간에 WP:CRIC가 최대한 옹호해 온, 공신력과 포함에 대한 가이드라인에 동의하지 않는다는 것이다.이 섹션의 시작 부분에서 당신은 내 행동에 의문을 품기 시작했고, 주제에 대해 계속 논의했다고 주장했고, 그리고 나서 세 개의 WP가 다음과 같이 주장하는 주제에서 벗어났다.CRIC 회원들은 포함의 "솔루 중재자"였다.보보. 17:24, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

아니, 전혀 상관없는 일이었다.대화의 목적은 당신과 당신의 친구들이 당신과 동의하지 않는다는 이유로 사람들의 이름을 부르는 것이 받아들일 수 있다고 생각하고 당신이 나를 특별한 학대로 지목했다는 것이다.그것은 행동상의 문제고 WP의 행동은 다음과 같다.CRIC는 형편없었다.

보보가 아닌 다른 사람이 체중을 재게 할 수 있을까?그 남자가 할 일은 오랫동안 닫혀있던 AfDs와 스리랑카 크리켓 선수들에 대한 관련 없는 불만과 함께 다른 사람들의 코멘트를 중단시키기 위해 대화를 계속하는 것이다.나는 여전히 내가 이 계속되는 괴롭힘을 받을 만한 어떤 것도 하지 않았다고 말한다.2017년 9월 16일 17:54 (UTC)[응답]

"관련 없는 논평"?네가 물어본 그 두 가지 질문 알아?나는 그들에게 대답했다.9분 안에.보보. 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC) 18:10 (응답)
  • 여기서 제재를 받을 위험에 있는 유일한 사람은 사용자다.블랙잭.잭, 만약 당신이 NOTHERE나 CIR과 같은 PA들을 내가 볼 때 내가 보기엔 아무것도 하지 않은 장기 편집자를 상대로 계속 뿌린다면, 당신은 차단될 이다, 그것은 확실하다.한 번만 더 하는 걸 보면 내가 직접 그 블록을 보여줄게.공신력 문제와 관련하여, 그것은 여기서 논의될 것이 아니다.불행하게도 우리는 항상 전세계적인 것과 완벽하게 부합되지 않는 지역적 인지능력 가이드라인에 많은 문제를 가지고 있지만, 당신의 프로젝트에 동의하지 않는 사람에게 욕설을 퍼붓는 것은 그것을 하는 방법이 아니다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 22:02, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
    이 대화가 더 이상 진짜 문제가 아니라고 말하면서 내가 상황을 옆으로 밀치고 있다고 생각하지 않았으면 좋겠다.지금 진짜 문제는 WP:CRIC는 이것에 의해 엄청난 타격을 입었다.우리가 아무리 기사를 많이 만들더라도 스리랑카 크리켓 선수 S. 페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)에게 무슨 일이 일어나더라도 크리켓 선수 모두가 수레쉬 페레라(올드 캄브리아스 크리켓 선수)에게 다른 크리켓 선수로 취급하고 있는 진정한 목표를 결코 완수할 수 없을 것이기 때문이다.CSD G4와 함께 누군가가 그것을 찍지 않고는 결코 만들어지지 않는다.나 이외의 사람(이해충돌 등)이 WP에 가져가야 한다.RFU 그리고 플레이어가 WP:CRIN. Bobo를 만난다고 지적한다.2017년 9월 16일 22:19 (UTC)[응답하라]

나는 우리 모두가 이 대화가 원래의 목적에서 다른 주제와 주제들로 방황했다는 것에 동의한다고 생각한다. 그 중 일부는 내 잘못이고 일부는 그렇지 않다.마감 관리자에게 할 예정인 사용자 토크 페이지 코멘트에 따라 S를 보내자고 제안할 생각이다.페레라(쿠루네갈라 유스 크리켓 클럽 크리켓 선수)는 AFD 토론이 논란이 되고(지침에 근거해) 판단하기 어려운 공감대가 형성돼 있고, 기사는 일반적으로 받아들여지는 기준을 통과한다는 점에 착안해 삭제 검토한다.물론, 나는 공감한다.

여기의 규약은 무엇인가?DRV로 이동하기 전에 마감 관리자의 응답을 기다려야 하는가?보보. 03:24, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 앞서서 여기서 그 제안을 했다.보보. 03:35, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]


업데이트: 나는 스파르타즈의 제안으로 삭제 검토를 위해 이 기사를 보냈다.보보. 10시 15분, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]


그래서 마침내 우리는 답을 얻었다삭제 검토 결과 문제는 '부적절한 소싱'에 있다.흥미로운 거네많은 크리켓 관련 위키백과 기사에 대해 "소싱"은 완전히 동일하다는 것을 고려하면, 모든 기사들이 "적절하게" 소싱되었다는 것을 의미하는가?보보. 13:28, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 코멘트 나는 내가 추천한 삭제 검토에서 이 논의에 대한 링크를 따라왔다.이제 나는 주요 크리켓 편집자는 아니지만, 나는 충분한 기사를 따르고 있고, 이 프로젝트에 대한 전반적인 이해를 할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 오랫동안 여기에 있었다.그동안 작업해 온 기사가 삭제되고 감정이 고조되면서 여유가 생긴다는 것은 정말 짜증나는 일이지만, 이것은 도저히 감당할 수 없는 지경에 이르렀다.이를 바라보는 외부인이라면 누구나 WP를 어둡게 볼 것이다.크리켓, 그것은 많은 훌륭한 편집자들이 관여하고 있기 때문에 불공평할 것이다.결국, 명성에 대한 명확한 구분은 없고 편집자들은 무엇이 여기에 포함시킬 만큼 주목할 만한 것을 만드는가에 대해 다른 견해를 가지고 있다.위와 연계된 삭제 토론에서 보여준 위협과 적대감의 수준에 의존하지 않는다면 당신은 여기서 즐거운 시간을 보낼 수 없을 것이다.에어콘 (토크) 07:29, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 너무 사실이 아니어서 나는 크리켓 편집자가 우리 프로젝트에 계속 일해야 하는 이유가 무엇인지 궁금하게 만든다.크리켓의 주요 등장.이보다 더 분명한 것은 없다.다른 모든 프로 스포츠와 정확히 같은 가이드라인이다.우리가 그토록 오랫동안 부지런히 따라다녔던 가이드라인이란, 더 이상 가이드라인을 옹호하는 요점이 무엇인지를 의심하는 것은 나뿐만이 아닐 것이다.어떤 지침도 더 명확할 수 없다.보보. 09:01, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
가이드라인?정말?내 물건은 어디 있지?크리켓에 크게 출연했다. -개 roxy. 2017년 9월 18일 09시 10분(UTC) 짖는다[응답하라]

  • 나는 정중하게 우리가 나의 행동에 대한 질문에서 크리켓 포함 기준의 질문으로 너무 방향 없이 움직여서 나보다 더 심각한 위협을 받고 있는 크리켓 프로젝트라고 제안한다.내가 백과사전에서 가장 고통스럽게 노골적인 지침을 따르고자 하는 내 소망을 정당화하려는 것은 더 이상 요점이 없으며, 솔직히 나는 내 친구들도 마찬가지라고 믿는다.그리고 최근의 논쟁에서 분명히 알 수 있듯이, 모든 1급 크리켓 선수들에게 기사를 제공하는 믿을 수 없을 정도로 단순한 목적에 더 이상 도움이 되지 않는 프로젝트를 옹호하는 것은 더 이상 의미가 없다.그리고 그것은 나의 개인적인 행동과 같은 것이다.보보. 09:47, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

대중문화에서의 전쟁은 결코 끝나지 않았다.

마치 타임워프에 빠진 기분이다.몇 년 전, 일부 편집자들은 "대중문화" 섹션이 엔에서 금지되도록 최선을 다했다.위키, 그러나 그들은 그렇게 하지 못했다.IPC 섹션을 도매로 제거하자는 커뮤니티의 합의가 이루어진 적은 없지만, 사용자:BrightR은 메모를 받지 못했고 누드 수영에 대한 그의 행동은 파괴적이 되었다.두 개의 편집기(나 자신과 사용자:클레름루터)는 그 기사의 IPC 부분을 삭제하는 것에 동의하지 않았지만, BrightR은 계속 삭제한다.나는 그가 특정 항목에 대해 가지고 있을 수 있는 어떤 특정한 문제에 대해 논의하기 위해 그를 여러 번 초대했지만, 그는 그렇게 하기를 거부하며, 단순히 여러 번 전체 부분을 삭제했다.물론 이것은 콘텐츠 논쟁이지만, BrightR의 행동이 WP:Disclusion을 훨씬 넘어서 Tendorgy가 되었기 때문에 이 문제가 여기에 제기되는 것이다.

여기서는 제재가 없을 것을 당부하며, 단순히 BrightR은 참가 신청의 쟁점을 반드시 논의해야 하며, 그가 가지고 있지 않은 IPC 섹션의 도매 철거에 대한 지역적 합의가 없는 것에 대한 합의는 없다는 말만 듣고 있다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC) 18시 40분 [응답]

관련 RfCs 및 Beyond My Ken이 무시하고 있는 정책의 인용문(해당 기사의 토크 페이지에 모두 표시됨):
  • RfC : 대중문화에서 "자기소싱"의 예 - 비욘드 마이 켄이 이 RfC에 참여하여 여러 번 지목되었다.RfC는 대중문화에 속하는 예들은 그들 자신에게 제공될 수 없다는 거의 무미건조한 합의를 제공하며, 그들이 왜 "과민적"인지 설명하는 출처를 요구한다.
  • WP:지역적 합의 - Beyond My Ken은 여기서처럼 더 넓은 합의와 위키백과 정책을 피하기 위해 지역적 합의(또는 그 결여)를 반복적으로 자산화한다.
  • 양쪽 WP:부담WP:ONUS(WP:V의 섹션)는 장애물 제거가 아닌, 장애물 복원을 위한 인용구를 제공하기 위해 onus를 설치했다.제거된 자료는 제대로 소싱되지 않았으며, 제대로 소싱될 때까지 위키백과 정책과 RfC의 합의는 소싱을 지지한다.
  • 가장 최근에 비욘드 마이 켄은 내가 이미지 갤러리를 제거했다고 불평했다.이것은 별개의 문제지만, 일반적으로 갤러리들은 신중하게 선정되어야 하고 합의의 대상이 되어야 하지만, 이것은 Beyond My Ken이 방금 다루었던 사소한 문제다.
일반적으로 Beyond My Ken은 위키백과 정책과 RfC의 합의에서 벗어나려는 그의 길을 괴롭히려고 시도하고 있는 것으로 보인다.Bright☀ 18:50, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
WP에서 구체적으로 언급된 또 다른 작은 괴롭힘 속임수:Beyond My Ken이 방금 사용OWNBEVEORY는 정책 지원 또는 합의 지원 편집을 피하기 위해 "현 상태로 되돌리는"("안정적 버전")이다.Bright☀ 18:58, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
지역 합의가 정책을 무시할 수 없다는 것은 명백하며, 나는 그것이 할 수 있다고 주장해 본 적이 없다.내가 주장해 온 것은 (RfC는 정책의 일부가 되지 않았기 때문에 구속력이 없었고, 따라서 본질적으로 완전히 자문될 수 없기 때문에) WP:V는 분명히 비소급 자료는 삭제할 수 있지만(그러나 반드시 삭제될 수는 없다), 그러나 이 IPC 자료는 1차 소스(이상적이지는 않지만 그럼에도 불구하고 허용될 수 있다)에 의해 소싱되고 있으며, 거기에 fo가 있다.re는 인용되는 미디어 자료에 대한 참조로 쉽게 검증될 수 있으므로 BrightR이 추정하는 방식으로 삭제할 수 없기 때문에 어떠한 실질적인 의미에서도 "부조"가 아니다.
그러나 어쨌든 AN/I는 BrightR과 내가 대화 페이지에서 했던 것과 같은 주장을 반복할 수 있는 장소가 아니다.AN/I는 콘텐츠 분쟁 해결을 위한 것이 아니며, 그래서 내가 여기에 가져온 것도 아니다.관리자와 지역사회가 고려해야 할 관련 질문은 BrightR이 두 편집자의 반대에 대해 계속 자료를 삭제하는 행위인데, 그들의 입장이 부정확할 수도 있다는 점을 고려하지 않고 말이다.
나는 특정 문제에 대한 BrightR의 우려를 특정 항목과 연관시키고, 그렇게 함으로써 의심스럽거나 사소한 모든 항목을 명단에서 삭제하는 것이 기쁘다고 일관되게 말해 왔다.나는 항상 이것을 하는데, IPC 목록이 때때로 조심스럽게 다듬어지지 않는다면 위처럼 커질 수 있다는 것에 동의한다.나는 이것이 완벽하게 합당한 입장이라고 생각하지만, BrightR이 받아들이지 않는 입장이다.나는 그가 실제로 함께 일하는 것에 동의하고 토토에서 그 부분을 없애는 것을 중단한다면 우리가 함께 일할 수 있을 것이라고 생각한다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC) 19:05 [응답]
토토제거
  • RfC는 합의를 나타낸다.많은 지역사회 참여자들에 의한 광범위한 지역사회 합의와, 대중문화 예시는 자신들에게 제공될 수 없거나 2차적 출처에서 언급할 수 없다는 거의 만장일치의 일치된 의견이다.
  • 두 편집자의 반대에 대한 자료제거하다 - 다시 말하지만, 지역사회의 합의가 더 넓은 지역사회의 합의와 정책을 무시하지는 않는다.
  • 토토의 구간 철거중지하고, 제대로 소싱된 1개 품목이 남아 있다.나머지는 제대로 조달되지 않았으며, 합의에 따라 제거되었다.붕어 공동체 합의를 무효화하기 위해 지역 합의를 주장하는 당신의 주장이 문제다.공감대는 당신에게 어울릴 때 자연에서 완전히 조언되는 것이다...그런거 아냐.여기서 쟁점은 당신이 정책과 합의를 따르기를 거부하는 것인데, 그것은 당신이 몇 번이고 반복해서입니다.Bright☀ 19:24, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
  • BMK: 대부분의 섹션은 비소싱이다.Per WP:V(지역적 공감대가 아닌 정책)는 "검증가능성을 입증해야 하는 부담은 자료를 추가하거나 복원하는 편집자에게 있으며, 기고를 직접 지원하는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 표창을 제공하여 만족한다"고 밝혔다.그 부담을 채우지 않고 이와 같은 자료를 복구하지 마십시오.David Eppstein (대화) 2017년 9월 16일 19:31 (UTC)[응답]
    • (1) 미안하지만 그것은 부정확하다.1차 소스는 여전히 소스가 된다.선호되는 출처는 아니지만 여전히 출처다.
    • (2) 이는 콘텐츠 분쟁과 관련된 코멘트로, 토크에 참여하는 것을 환영한다.누드 수영.AN/I는 콘텐츠 분쟁을 결정하는 것이 아니므로 여기서는 관련이 없다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 20:15, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
      • 각주가 전혀 없는 자료를 복원하는 당신의 행동은, 그 포함이 논란이 된 후, 여기서도 관련이 있다.David Eppstein (대화) 20:26, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

'시간 워프 된 기분'을 시작하는 문단이 왜 쓰여졌는지 궁금하다.BrightR은 IPC 섹션에 반대 의사를 표명했는가?2602:306:BC31:4AA0:480B:1D12:4102:2962 (대화) 21:18, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

댓글 - ENG FTW with the Toto pic!Ear#에서 언급해야 할 것 같다.in_popul_culture. - SummerPhDv2.0 20:28, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

주석 7 회수는 상당히 많다. WP:V에 따라 이러한 비참조 섹션의 제거를 전적으로 지지하고 이를 대체하기 위해 싸우는 편집자는 제재를 받아야 한다.WP:ONUS는 여기서 볼 가치가 있다. --존 (대화) 21:47, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

는 종종 "토토오즈의 마법사에서 새우 페페가 연주했다"와 같은 문장으로 IPC의 비소싱 섹션에 직면한다.너는 그것들을 IMDb로 소싱할 수 없다.영화 자체가 성명서의 주요 출처인 만큼 인라인 인용이 필요 없다는 주장이다.내 개인적인 입장은 외모가 다른 곳에서 언급할 수 있을 정도로 중요한 것이 아니라면 IPC 섹션에서는 언급할 가치가 없다는 것이다.그런데 공식 입장은?호크예7 (토론) 22:25, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

바로 위의 동료들과 동의하십시오.내가 보기엔 적어도 한달에 한번은 어떤 불명확한 정치인에 대한 진지한 전기를 덧붙이는 것을 본다. 그가 비디오 게임에서 언급했던 대중문화에 숨가쁜 숨가쁘게 달려 있다.나는 대중문화 섹션이 위키피디아에서 우리가 가지고 있는 최악의 전염병이라고까지 말하지 않을 것이다.하지만 그들은 적어도 명예로운 언급은 얻는다.--Wehwalt (대화) 22:32, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 또한 일반적으로 내가 작업한 기사의 그러한 항목들에 대한 신뢰할 수 있는 2차 소싱이 그 개념이 등장한다는 것을 증명하기 위해서가 아니라, 그것이 주목할 만한 것으로 보이는 어떤 대중문화적인 것에도 충분히 중심적이었음을 증명하기 위해서(예: 테서락트)를 요구한다.David Eppstein (대화) 23:02, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
그것이 우리가 WP를 가진 이유다.TRIVIA. IPC 섹션은 진실하지만 무작위적인 정보를 위한 자석이다.2차 출처에서 언급했다면, 포함이 타당하다. --MASEM (t) 00:55, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 IPC 부분을 우리 독자들에게 가치 있는 문화의 스냅사진으로 생각하는 것을 선호한다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 03:19, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
비욘드 마이 켄(Beyond My Ken)은 믿을 수 있는 독립적인 2차 자료에서 "거대한 그림 A와 B 영화 B가 대중문화에서 누드 수영에 대한 이해에 상당한 기여를 했다"고 언급했을 만 가치가 있다.그렇지 않다면, 그것들은 단지 서투르게 언급되고 백과사전이 아닌 "cruft"일 뿐이다.개인적으로 말하면, 나는 이런 종류의 콘텐츠가 정말 짜증나.컬런328 2017년 9월 17일 05:23 (UTC) 토론하자[응답하라]

누드 수영을 묘사하는 데 몇 장의 사진이 필요한가?

사람들은 인터넷 상의 어떤 것도 기다리지 않는다 - 그것이 나체로 된 사람들의 사진이 아니라면.

이 기사에 사용된 이미지 수를 줄이려는 성인들이 여기에 있는가?누드 수영의 개념을 설명하기 위한 15개의 이미지는 과도해 보인다.우리는 이 길이의 대부분의 글에서 이 많은 이미지들을 참아내지 못할 텐데, 왜 여기가 괜찮을까?왜 나체와 관련된 것이 사춘기 소년들에 의해 통제되는 것처럼 보이는가?세계최소평론가 (토크) 21:58, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 덧붙이자면, 그 15장의 사진들 중에서, 나이 든 사람을 보여주는 이미지는 단 한 장도 없는 것 같다.15개 중 한 개의 이미지가 있는데, 그것은 색채를 가진 사람을 보여준다.왜 그렇게 많은 똑같은 이미지들을 가지고 있을까: 젊고, 백인들이 나체로 헤엄치는 것?세계최소평론가 (토크) 22:26, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 다른 질문이 있다: AN/I에 글을 올리는 것과 별도로, 편집자는 어떻게 이런 페이지에 관심을 끌어야 하는가?어느 쪽도 WP:GAWP:AfD는 토론에 가장 적절하지 않다.파워~엔위키 (π, ν) 22:07, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 앞서서 그것을 더 깎아내렸다.우리는 비교적 작은 글에 13장의 사진이 필요하지 않았다.가장 눈에 띄는 작품을 남겼는데, 그것도 특집 기사였다.안부, — MoeEpsilon 22:42, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 먼저 가서 이미지를 복구했다.해당 기사에서 특정 이미지를 삭제하려면 Talk에서 해당 이미지를 삭제하십시오.누드 수영.감사합니다.FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:21, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
이 문제에 대해 두 번째 논의를 시작하는 것을 제외하고, FreeKnowledgeCreator, 네가 다시 추가한 15개의 이미지가 내가 남긴 4개의 이미지가 누드 수영에 대해 제공하지 않았다는 것을 제공하는 것이 있을까?위키백과별:스타일/이미지 매뉴얼#페르티넨스와 백과사전적 성격으로 대부분 장식적인 모습으로 나타나 기사 내용에 주의를 집중시키지 못했다.Anness, — MoeEpsilon 00:25, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그 이미지는 기사의 주제에 대해 구체적으로 언급할 때 "기사의 내용에 대한 불신"일 수 없다.이러한 이미지 중 일부는 제거될 수 있지만, 언급된 바와 같이 Talk에서 어떤 이미지를 제거해야 하는지는 여러분에게 달려 있다.누드 수영과 이미지 제거에 대한 공감대를 얻기 위해서입니다.기사의 토크 페이지에서 토론을 시작하십시오.여기서의 추가 논의는 아무런 소용이 없다.FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:29, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
FreeKnowledgeCreator:나는 이것에 대해 더 이상 논평하거나 다른 논의를 시작하지 않을 것이다.내 말을 듣거나 직접 답장을 하고 싶은 것처럼 들리지 않는다.그래서 나는 이 게시물에 이어서 이 토론을 남겨두겠다.다만 "기사의 주제에 대해 구체적으로 언급할 때 이미지가 '기사의 내용에 대한 불신'일 수 없다"는 것은 본질적으로 잘못된 것이다.비슷한 주제에 머무르면서, 임의의 남녀가 자위행위를 하는 모습을 10개 더 올려놓으면 화제의 범위에 있지만, 그것은 산만하고 지나치다.이 예나 누드 수영 기사는 특히 제공된 이미지에 대해 충분한 내용이나 맥락을 제공하지 않는다.하지만 그것은 어떤 주제에도 해당되므로 한번 시도해 보고 다른 기사에 시도해보십시오.기사 이미지의 대부분은 누드 수영 예술이며 기껏해야 최소한의 내용만 담고 있다.하나는 '세계 기록' 누드 수영 종목의 끔찍한 이미지인데 관련 섹션은 두 줄이다.만약 우리가 평범한 기사들을 잘 만들거나 특집으로 만드는 사업을 한다면, 그 기준에 맞는 기사들의 매뉴얼을 따르는 것이 좋은 시작일 것이다.안녕, — Moe Epsilon 01:23, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
때때로 나는 커먼스가 너무 많은 좆의 사진을 가지고 있다고 생각한다.

특별한 위키마니아 누드 수영 모임을 가져야 할 것 같은데 노트북이 방수가 되지 않아서 아무도 나타나지 않을 거야.리치333 22:54(cont), 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

가나, 찍어줄 사람 있어?마르티네반스123 (대화) 23:00 (UTC) 2017년 9월 16일 (화)[응답]
누구라고?ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 23:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
있으면 사진 찍어.세계최소평론가 (토크) 23:37, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]
누드 배영, 누드 프리스타일, 누드 나비, 누드 평영.아이블리스 카운트 (대화) 00:00, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 우리가 누드 수영의 훌륭한 활동인 누드 수중 성교를 하는 사람들의 사진이 없다는 것이 괴롭다고 생각한다.팬더리스트 (대화) 2017년 9월 17일 00:30 (UTC)[응답]
사람만이 충분히 오랫동안 숨을 참을있다.아이블리스 백작 (토크) 02:21, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)
사람들은 위키피디아를 그만두고 기억해야 한다.What_Wikipedia_is_not#위키백과_is_not_censored.WP:LAME 많이?--인증된 강스타(토크) 02:49, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇다, 누드 수영에 관한 기사는 누군가 누드 수영하는 모습을 담고 있을 것이다.그것이 바로 WP:NOTCONSORED는 다음을 의미한다.우리가 누드 수영하는 15명의 이미지를 가져야 한다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다.합리적인 사람들은 편집상식과 검열의 차이를 알 수 있다.세계최소평론가 (토크) 04:39, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
악의는 없지만 '합리적인' 것과 그렇지 않은 것을 일방적으로 결정할 수는 없다.당신이 알기 위해서, "합리적 사람들"과 "상식"의 목소리로서의 당신의 자칭된 지위는 당신에게 어떠한 브라우니 포인트도 얻지 못할 것이다.이곳 커뮤니티가 결정할 것이다.--Certified Gangsta (talk) 16:30, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 브라우니의 점수를 따기 위해 편집감독의 유감스러운 상태에 대해 논점을 만들고 있다고 생각해?귀여워.세계최소평론가(토크) 14:42, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
수영복을 입은 수영은 수영이다.그것은 마치 우리가 왜 여성학과는 있지만 남성학과는 없는지를 묻는 것과 같다. 왜 우리는 대학에서 공부한다. 또는 왜 소수 학생 연합은 있지만 백인 학생 연합은 없다. 또는 MRA 사람들이 "남자의 권리"와 "여성 권리" 사이에 거짓 동등성을 그리고 있다.기사는 소속.--인증된 강스타(토크) 03:12, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
유머가 없는, 많이?EENG 04:08, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7915369.stm Iblis (talk) 05:24, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC) 카운트 이블리스 (the count Iblis (talk) 05:24 [응답]

수건과 수건 던지기

차례가 오기를 기다리는 수건

음, 분명히 나는 여기서 승리하지는 않을 거야. 반 IPC 편집자들이 WP를 피하는 위키피디아 사람들에 의해 보충된, 강제적으로 나올 때는 아니다.가능할 때마다 상식적으로.누드 수영이 기사로 전락하고, 우리 독자들에게 정말 폐가 될 것 같아 아쉽지만, 그런 것들은 어쩔 수 없는 것 같다.

난 고소장을 철회하고 브라이트는 누드 수영으로 뭐든 할 수 있어 적어도 내가 아는 한:나는 그 기사를 내 감시 목록에서 뺐고, 다시 편집할 생각은 없다.

나는 다시 내 오두막으로 기어들어가서, "백과사전 생존을 위한 개인 처방전"의 12번째 칸토에 대한 반복적인 의식을 시작할 것이다.건배.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 22:51, 2017년 9월 16일 (UTC)[응답]

여러분, 제발 부탁입니다만, 나는 여기서 논평하지 않으려고 꽤 노력하고 있습니다, 왜냐하면 그것은 불가피하게 당신의 요점을 잘 이해하기 때문에, (정말, 나는 당신에게 내가 어떤 식으로든 지적 장애가 있는 것은 아니라고 장담한다) 그러나 거의 전적으로 반대하기 때문입니다,나는 여러분이 그곳에서 반복적으로 핑핑을 당하고 있을 때, 그 곳에서 멀리 떨어져 있는 것이 훨씬 더 어렵다는 것을 여러분 모두가 알고 있을 것이라고 확신한다.그러니 단순히 개인적인 사설의견을 표명하는 것이 아니라 나를 훈계하거나 제재하는 행정관이 아니라면, 이 논의에 대한 핑계는 피하십시오.난 이미 말한 것보다 더 할 말이 없어. 그리고 네가 어쨌든 그 말을 다시 듣고 싶지 않다는 걸 확신해.고마워요.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 05:50, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
FWIW, 나는 BrightR과의 분쟁을 다루기 위해 편집 전쟁을 선택한 것이 나로서는 형편없는 선택이었다는 것을 지역사회에 대체로 인정한다.나는 좌절감을 호소할 수 있지만, 그것은 결코 용납할 수 없는 변명일 것이다.나는 내가 차단당하지 않은 것이 행운이라는 것을 깨달았다. 그리고 그것을 고려했을지도 모르지만 나와 BrightR 둘 다에게 관용을 베풀어준 관리들에게 감사한다.
이 지저분한 일에 대한 나의 가장 큰 후회는 이 한 가지 사건에 대한 나의 판단력의 부족이 미래에 내가 행정관이 되는 데 있어 유일한 장애가 될 것 같다는 것이다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 03:04, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
@My Ken을 넘어서: 분명히, 이것은 당신의 ORC는 아니지만, 나는 이 하나의 토론이 당신의 향후 관리직 요청에 대한 타협점이라고 생각하지 않는다. 그 누구도 항상 합의에 부합할 것으로 기대해서는 안 된다.에어보네미히르 (토크) 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC) 18:18 [응답]
@Airbornemihir:그런 말들을 해줘서 정말 고맙지만, 그건 일종의 농담이었어. 내가 글에서 그것을 더 분명히 하지 못해서 미안해.나는 수년 동안 행정관이 되고 싶지 않다는 것을 꽤 분명히 해왔고, 실질적으로 말하자면, 내가 노력하면 성공하지 못할 것 같은 나에 대한 의심으로 충분한 사람들을 모았다고 생각한다.나는 심지어 내가 출마한다면 나를 위해 투표하지 않을 것이라고 말했다.어쨌든, 나는 백과사전에 기고하는 것이 행복하다. 가끔씩 좌절하는 것에도 불구하고. 그러니 계속 그렇게 하는 것만으로 나는 괜찮다.다시 한 번 감사드리며, 당신의 몸짓은 고마웠다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 19:29, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

또 다른 질문

왜 우리는 벌거벗고, 신원을 알 수 있고, 살아있는 아이들의 이미지를 호스트하는 사업을 하고 있는가?그런 이미지 하나가 도태된 후에도 여전히 그 페이지에 올라 있다.문제가 너무 많아서 어디서부터 시작해야 할지 모르겠어.만약 당신의 직장에서 누군가가 인터넷에서 여섯 번째로 가장 많이 방문한 사이트에 당신의 벌거벗은 10살짜리 사진이 있다고 지적한다면 당신은 어떤 기분이 들겠는가?어린이는 내가 아는 모든 관할구역에서 그런 이미지에서 선천적으로 동의를 할 수 없다.골든링 (토크) 06:37, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

는 당신이 파일:인도에서 스키니 다이빙을 하는 아이들.jpg.다섯 과목 중 네 과목은 단순히 머리 방향이나 물 때문에 식별이 불가능하다.그리고 다섯 번째가 카메라를 마주하고 있다고 해도, 상당한 양의 어른들이 그들이 어렸을 때 그랬던 것처럼 보이지 않는다고 말해도 무방하다.누구든, 하원이 이 이미지를 주관하고, 2010년 이전에 삭제 논의를 한 이 있다면, 더 많은 정보를 얻거나 직접 논의하기 위해 그곳으로 향할 수 있다.여기 이 사진이 촬영된 장소 때문에 인도 특유의 동의에 대한 관련 지침이 있다.안녕, MoeEpsilon 07:26, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
골든링, 네가 그 질문을 한 첫 번째 사람은 아닐 거야.Moe Epsilon은 우리가 할 수 있기 때문이라고 지적한다.그것은 하원에 충분한 것 같다.문제는 누드 수영 기사처럼 사물을 주시하는 분별 있는 사람이 없다는 것일지도 모른다.그래서 File(파일)과 같은 이미지를 얻는다.Naturist girl.png(아카이브) 및 파일:Naturist의 어린 소녀.png (아카이브)둘 다 7개월 전에 업로드한 거야우리가 주최할 수 있을지 조차 모르겠는데, 그럴까?세계최소평론가 (토크) 14:56, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
카메라를 마주하고 있는 유일한 사람인 것 같은데, 당신은 인터넷 워치 재단과 위키피디아 분쟁에서 특징지어지는 악명 높은 버진 킬러 앨범 표지만큼이나 많은 시신을 볼 수 있다.그리고 둘 다 악명 높은 네버마인드 앨범 표지보다 덜 보여.이 두 경우 모두 더 이상 아이들이 아니지만, 그렇다고 해서 우리가 멈출 수는 없었을 것이다.사실 우리는 스펜서 엘든에 대한 기사를 2005년 5월 [26] 이후로 가지고 있는데, 만약 현재 기사의 DOB가 맞다면, 그가 14살 때부터라는 뜻이다.닐 아인(토크) 18:47, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@Moe Epsilon: 네, 네, 그것이 내가 언급하고 있던 이미지 입니다.심지어 당신이 인용한 가이드라인에도 '부끄럽고 정신적으로 큰 충격을 준다'거나 '[탈퇴자] 활동에 대한 불안감'을 유발할 수 있는 방식으로 사진을 게재하는 것은 CoI 21조에 따라 불법이다.나는 이 이미지가 내가 위에서 말한 이유 때문에 그 가이드라인에 어긋나야 한다고 생각한다.
앨범 커버에 대한 당신의 의견이 어떻든 간에, 나는 앨범의 전면 커버를 위해 포즈를 취하는 것과 수영을 하면서 낯선 사람이 당신의 사진을 찍는 것은 분명한 차이가 있다고 생각한다.여기서 내가 걱정하는 것은 사람들이 벌거벗은 소년들의 사진을 보는 것이 아니라, 살아있는 사람들에게 해를 끼치지 않는 편이 낫다는 우리의 BLP 정책의 정신에 더 있다.사진 속의 사람들은 아마도 여전히 살고 있을 것이다.적어도 하나는 식별할 수 있다; 당신은 처음부터 그를 알아내려고 하는 운이 별로 없을 수도 있지만, 그를 아는 사람들은 그를 알아볼 것이다(그리고 아마도 다른 사람들이 충분히 누구인지 쉽게 알아낼 것이다).내 생각에 그 사진은 대부분의 사람들에게 창피할 것 같다.나는 확실히 내 어린 시절 사진이 온라인에 게시되는 것을 별로 좋아하지 않는다. 내 알몸 사진은 더더욱 그렇다.커먼즈에서의 삭제 논의는 꽤 끔찍하다; 아이가 카메라를 보고 웃고 있는 것처럼 보이기 때문에 벌거벗은 사진 촬영에 동의했다는 생각은 너무나 많은 단계에서 잘못되었기 때문에, 다시 말하지만, 나는 어디서부터 시작해야 할지 잘 모르겠다.골든링 (토크) 21:39, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 1살 미만의 아기가 어떻게 어떤 포즈를 취했는지 모르겠다.분명히 젊은 사람은 동의나 심지어 사진의 개념이 없고 포즈를 취하는 개념을 이해할 수 없다.다시 말해, 비록 아이가 앨범 표지를 위해 한 프로 작업일 때 그 결정이 어떤 무작위로 사진을 찍는 것보다 그 결정의 의미에 대해 약간 더 잘 이해할 수 있지만, 이것은 우리가 아기들이 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 더 잘 이해하지 못하기 때문에 우리가 아기들을 고려할 때 모호한 것이다.무슨 일이 있어도대신, 당신은 부모가 결정을 내릴 수 있다는 것은, 특히 나체주의 해변이나 다른 장소에서 이미지가 있는 경우, 당신이 많은 합병증을 얻게 된다는 것을 의미한다.닐 아인(토크) 07:58, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

물론 더 넓은 문제는 당신이 언급했던 것이다."사진은 대부분의 사람들에게 창피할 겁니다.어린 시절 사진이 인터넷에 올라오는 것을 별로 좋아하지 않고, 나체의 사진은 더더욱 좋아하지 않는다."「내 생각」이었기 때문에, 특히 서구 세계(특히 유럽의 일부 지역)에 대해 이야기하고 있는 경우에는 전자에 대한 실질적인 증거가 제공되지 않았다.개인적으로 나는 분명 내가 어렸을 때보다는 어른으로서 더 그렇긴 하지만 주변에 벌거벗은 사진을 갖고 싶지는 않지만, 사람들이 나체가 되어도 어린 시절 수영과 같은 자연스러운 평범한 일을 하는 사진들로 인해 당황하는 것은 분명 보편적인 태도와는 거리가 멀다.

그게 두 번째 요점이야당신이 옹호하는 우리가 명시적인 동의 없이 아이들의 모든 사진을 제거하지 않는 한, 당신은 어떤 종류의 어린 시절의 사진이 누군가에게 당황스러울지 개인적인 판단을 하는 것이다.

몇몇 사람들이 여기 사진에 더 당황해도 놀라지 않을 것이다.범주:거리 어린이, 공용:범주:를 들어 애원하는 것.그리고 나는 또한 18세 정도의 아이들에게, 그들이 그들 중 한 명이 수영하는 것보다 그들의 어머니나 아버지가 어렸을 때 그들에게 키스하는 사진을 보고 더 당황할 수도 있다고 해도 놀라지 않을 것이다. 하지만 나는 그 사람이 수영하는 것보다 더 많은 정보가 없으면 신원을 알 수 있는 경우는 드물 것이라고 생각한다.아이들이 우연히 코 따는 장면을 찍은 사진도 있고, 파일도 있어예를 들어, 할머니는 아기 나크바.jpg를 울린다. (실제로 나는 부수적인 것이 아니며 아마도 아이의 이름까지 가지고 있는 것을 삭제해야 할 것 같은 것을 발견했다.)나는 누군가 더 당황하게 할 수 있는 다른 예들을 찾을 수 있을 것이라고 확신하지만, 만약 무슨 일이 일어나면 이 대화는 다른 곳에서 이루어져야 하기 때문에 나는 특히 게을러진다.

그리고 저 사람은 아이들뿐입니다.내 생각에 그 논쟁은 아이가 공공장소에서 미래에 당황할 수 있는 모든 것을 할 수 있는 영구적인 사진기록이 있을 가능성과 같은 암시를 덜 이해할 수 있다는 것이다.그럼에도 불구하고 우리가 그들을 특징으로 하는 이미지를 주최하지 않기를 바라는 것은 아이들뿐만이 아니다.예를 들어, 어떤 사람들은 나중에 백인 우월주의자 집회에 나타나거나 "아니오, 예스, 항문"을 부르는 것을 후회할지도 모른다. (좋아, 우리는 실제로 그 AFAIK에서 나온 것은 아무것도 없지만, 나는 그것이 주로 저작권상의 이유 때문이라고 확신한다) 또는 다른 것들이다.젊었을 때 일어났을 수도 있지만 어른으로 여겨졌을 수도 있고, 어떤 경우에는 술에 취했을 수도 있다. (사실 우리는 하원의원이 있다:범주:에 취한 사람들과 내가 그곳에서 봤거나 서브캣에서 본 몇몇 이미지들은 동일시되는 것처럼 보였다.)그러나 적어도 이런 경우들 중에는 그 안에 나타난 사람이 물어봐도, 그리고 상징적이지 않더라도 우리가 그 이미지들을 지울지는 잘 모르겠어. (글쎄, 나는 우리가 항상 그들이 물으면 방앗간 주정뱅이들의 런 이미지를 지우고 싶다고 생각하고 싶지만, 백인우월주의자 집회 사진을 찍기 위해 그렇게 할지는 잘 모르겠어.마찬가지로 사진 속 아이들 중 한 명이 실제로 물어본다면, 나는 우리가 하지 않을 정당한 이유가 없는 한 그것을 삭제할 것이라고 추측한다.)

내가 분명히 우리가 그런 판단을 해서는 안 된다고 말하는 것은 아니지만, 사실 나는 우리와 일반인들이 이미 제한적으로 그렇게 하고 있다고 거의 확신한다.내 말은, 만약 당신이 이것에 대해 이야기 하고 싶다면, 어떤 상황에서 사진이 잠재적으로 당황스러울 수 있으므로 삭제되어야 한다는 가치 판단을 신중하게 고려해야 한다는 것이다.여기에는 동의가 정확히 무엇인지(누가 제공하는지 포함)와 우리가 어린이들에게만 그러한 문제를 고려하는지 여부, 그리고 당황스러운 것이 더 부수적일 수 있는 경우를 다루는 방법(예: 단체 사진에서 코를 찌르는 것)과 같은 문제가 포함된다.또한 이것은 단지 기사에 나타나는 이미지들에 관한 것인데, 왜냐하면 만약 그것이 이 이미지들을 호스팅하는 것의 더 넓은 문제라면, 여러분이 이 이미지들이 en에 나타나는 것을 차단할 계획이 아니라면, 그 논의는 공유지에서 이루어져야 할 필요가 있기 때문이다.위키백과, 아니면 WMF를 공통적으로 종료하도록 다시 시도하십시오.

닐 아인 (대화) 09:13, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

아직 이 일을 통해 조금 생각하고 있지만, 생각해 봐야 한다는 것조차 조금 놀랐다.
나는 앨범 표지와 문제의 사진의 차이점은 앨범 표지가 그 자체로 출판되었고 위키피디아가 그것을 묘사하기 위해 어떤 것의 이미지를 사용하고 있다는 것이라고 생각한다; 만약 누군가가 위키피디아 기사의 앨범 표지에 나체의 아이의 사용을 질문한다면, 우리는 그 앨범에 대한 기사가 있다고 합리적으로 말할 수 있다.그리고 그것을 설명하고 싶다; 그것은 우리가 벌거벗은 아이가 없는 앨범 표지의 다른 사진을 선택할 수 있는 것과는 다르다.앨범 표지에 이미지를 사용하는 것 또한 누군가가 이미지에 동의했다는 합리적인 가정을 만들어낸다.아마 그 아이는 아니었을 테지만, 그 아이에 대한 책임감이 있는 사람은 이미지의 제작에 거의 확실히 관여하고 있었다(그리고 그런 위치에 있는 사람은 대개 우리가 여기서 그러한 한계의 가장자리에서 가까워지고 있을지도 모르지만, 아이를 대신해서 많은 것들에 대한 동의를 할 수 있다).막 시작한 프리랜서 사진작가가 우연히 어디선가 보게 된 사람의 사진을 찍어 나중에 후회한 면허증으로 플리커에 올린 사례는 확연히 다르다.너나 나나 그 어느 프랑스인의 깜박거리는 흐름의 완전한 무명 속에서 그 사진을 마주한 적이 없었을 것이다. 그 이미지가 위키피디아에서 사용되고 있기 때문에 그 이미지가 가진 유일한 특색이다.
나는 충격을 받은 것을 사지 않는다. 위에서 말한 많은 논점보라. 내가 간단히 말하면, 그것은 "어떤 사람들은 당황하는 을 발견할 것이고, 다른 사람들은 어떤 것에 당황하지 않을 것이기 때문에, 우리는 그저 손을 들고 어떤 기준도 갖지 말아야 한다."에 해당하는 것 같다. (나는 이것이 당신말하는 이 아니라는 것을.실제로 주창하고 있다.)물론 어떤 사람들은 그들 자신에 대한 누드사진에 당황하지 않을 것이고, 물론 어떤 사람들은 그들에 대한 어떤 언급도 없애줄 것을 요구할 것이다; 이것들 중 어느 것도 우리의 행동을 결정해서는 안 된다.우리가 일하는 원칙은 보수적으로 살아 있는 사람들에게 아무런 해를 끼치지 않고 신뢰할 수 있고 독립적인 이차적인 원천에서 검증 가능한 것에 대해서만 출판하는 것이다.왜 그 기준은 단지 그들에 대한 말이 아니라 그들의 그림이라고 해서 달라져야 하는가?
당신은 비슷한 상황에서 아동/성인 문제를 간단히 논하고, 사실 나는 그 기사에서 사용된 다른 이미지에 대해 많은 동일한 우려를 가지고 있다; 그들은 모두 추정적으로 살아 있는 사람들이다. 그들 중 다수는 그들을 알고 있는 사람들에게 분명히 식별될 수 있고, 그들 중 일부는 사생활에 대한 합리적인 기대를 가지고 있을 수 있는 상황에 있다.. 파일:예를 들어, FIN 04.jpg는 사용자 이름 정책을 위반했다는 이유로 거기서 차단되어야 하는 사용자에 의한 공유 업로드다. 그들은 내가 알기로는 그것에 대한 어떠한 증거도 없이 플로리다의 젊은 나투리스트들을 대표한다고 주장한다.비록 그들이 공식적으로 그 조직을 대표한다고 해도, 나는 그들이 회원들의 나체 사진을 많은 사람들이 이용하는 웹사이트에 올릴 수 있는 허가를 가지고 있다는 증거를 정말 보고 싶다.파일:2014 WNBR Brighton beach.jpg는 거의 타당하다; 이 사람들은 방금 맨몸으로 달리기 대회에 참가한 어른들이며, 만약 그들이 그 과정에서 누군가가 그들의 사진을 찍을 수 있다는 것을 깨닫지 못했다면 그들은 그렇게 했어야 했다.내가 알기로는 그런 종류의 추리는 위에서 논의된 다른 이미지들을 고수하지 않는다.골든링 (토크) 10:08, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이 토론을 떠날 계획이었지만, 네가 나에 대해 매우 불쾌한 발언을 했기 때문에 답장을 해야겠어.나는 "어떤 사람들은 당황하는 을 발견할 것이고, 다른 사람들은 어떤 에 대해서도 당황하지 않을 것이므로 우리는 그저 손을 위로 내밀고 어떤 기준도 갖지 말아야 한다"와 같은 원격적인 말을 한 적이 없다.나는 이것을 피하기 위해 내가 그렇게 말하는 것이 아니라는 것을 분명히 언급했지만("그런 판단을 해서는 안 된다는 것을 명시적으로 말하는 것은 아니다") 당신은 내 말을 무시하고 대신 나에 대해 모욕적인 발언을 했다.다시는 나에 대해 그렇게 심한 오도 발언을 하지 말아줘.나는 이 토론을 이제 확실히 끝냈다.사람들이 말하는 것에 대해 그렇게 아주 불쾌하게 오해할 수 있는 주장을 할 때 행운을 빌어.사람들이 일이 복잡하다고 생각하고, 고려해야 할 많은 사안들이 있기 때문에, 우리가 어떻게, 언제, 무엇을 하는지에 대해 장황하게 생각할 필요가 있다고 해서, 우리가 강력한 증거 없이 전면적인 판단을 하거나, 더 넓은 문제의 사소한 부분만을 다루지 않는다고 해서, 그들이 그것을 무시해야 한다고 말하는 것은 아니다.그들이 그렇게 말하는 것을 제안하는 것은 거의 참을 수 없다. 만약 그 사람이 분명히 말하지 않았다면 그들은 그렇게 말하지 않을 것이다.내가 분명히 했을 때?절대 안돼.만약 당신이 더 넓은 문제를 조사하기를 꺼릴 수 없다면, 그것은 당신의 선택이다.만약 당신이 더 넓은 문제를 조사하지 않고 물건을 바꿀 수 있다고 생각한다면, 그것은 또한 당신의 선택이다.하지만 많은 광범위한 문제들 중 몇 가지를 꺼낸 것에 대해 누군가를 탓하지 마라.만약 네가 더 넓은 문제를 고려하고 싶다면, 내가 더 넓은 문제를 몇 가지 꺼냈다고 해서 네가 왜 나에 대해 그렇게 모욕적인 발언을 했는지 모르겠다.닐 아인 (대화) 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC) 11:00[응답]
@닐 아인:나는 누군가에게 그런 불쾌감을 주어서 마음이 산란하다.이것은 정말로 내가 곰곰이 생각해보려고 하는 것이고 나는 당신이 꺼낸 몇 가지 아이디어들과 상호작용을 하려고 노력했다. 나는 분명히 그 말을 아주 슬그머니 말했고 잘 전달되지 않았다.나는 거리낌없이 사과한다.골든링 (토크) 13:04, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

비욘드 마이 켄 합의 반대 전쟁 - 1RR 제안

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이제 WP:V RfC뿐만 아니라 AN/I에 대해서도 전면적인 합의가 이루어졌으므로, 여기서 진정한 문제를 논할 수 있을까, Beyond My Ken은 합의를 무시하고, 그것이 그에게 어울릴 때 본질적으로 완전히 자문하고, 그렇지 않으면 무시하며, 일반적으로는 WP에 기술된 바로 그 전술을 채택하고 있다.자기 행동?그는 AN/I, RfCd에 최소 두 번 이상 몸담았으며, 일반적으로 정책과 RfC 및 토크 페이지 토론이 자신의 개인적 선호나 한 명의 다른 편집자가 현지에서 달성하는 '합의'보다 더 구속력이 있다는 것을 인정하지 않아 계속해서 대화 페이지에서 싸웠다.이것은 (여기에 있는 것처럼) 따라와야 하는데, 제발 나에게 핑계를 대지 마라.이러한 반복되는 행동 문제(지역사회의 합의 거부, 지역적 합의 주장, WP:Beyond My Ken의 기여 역사 전반에 걸쳐 "STOPing me")는 반복된다.명백한 공공 기물 파손이 아닌 어떤 문제라도 BMK가 WP:1RR의 적용을 받아야 한다는 제재에 동의할 수 있는가?Bright☀ 08:43, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 보는 것은 정책과 절차에 대한 깊은 지식을 가진 한 명의 사용자뿐인데, 그의 애완동물 POV를 불도저로 불도저로 불도저로, 영구히 온라인에 있지 않은 사람이 코멘트를 할 수 있도록 충분한 시간을 남겨두지 않고 있다.나는 그 사용자가 코멘트를 더 하기 전에 뒤로 물러서서 일주일 정도 견고한 콘텐츠를 만드는 것을 보고 싶다. --ClemRutter (토크) 08:56, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
충분한 시간을 남기지 않고 - 한 은 충분한 시간이 되지 않는가?5개월은 어때?6년?? 공동체의 합의 (RfC)와 반복된 지역 토픽 페이지 합의는 여러분이나 비욘드 마이 켄을 흔들 수 없었다.그가 시작한 AN/I는 그를 흔들 수 없었다.합의는 애완동물 POV를 불도저하는 것이 아니라고 단언할 수 있도록 제재를 가할 필요가 있다.컨센서스는 위키피디아의 작동 방식이다.합의를 무시하는 것이 문제지, 영구적으로 온라인 상에 있지 않은 사람이 발언을 할 수 있는 충분한 시간이 없다는 주장이 아니다.Bright☀ 09:11, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
치밀한가?Bright☀ 10:33, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
@BrightR:여기서 제시한 정보는 편집 전쟁 패턴을 보여주지 않으며, 블록 로그를 보면 BMK에 유능한 블록을 배치한 지 몇 년이 된다. 그것에서 1RR로 가는 것은 말도 안 된다.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 15:50, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
아, 비욘드 마이 켄의 역사를 모르나 보군.잠시 후에 아래에 개요를 추가하겠다.Bright☀ 15:53, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 코멘트를 하기 전에 그것을 보고 그것에 익숙하다고 말했다.제발, 당신의 제안에 반대하는 것이 무지에서 비롯되었다고 가정하지 마십시오.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 15:58, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
화내지 마; 너는 그의 블록 이력을 봤다고 말했어; 나는 그가 몇 번이고 제재를 회피했고, 아래에 있는 역사를 제공할 것이라고 설명하는 거야.Bright☀ 16:29, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
가장 초기의 RfC는 2008년 이후로, 비욘드 마이 켄이 현재의 상태로 되돌리는 것으로 합의를 무효화하려는 시도를 중단하도록 요청받았다.2012년 MOS 무시(합의를 나타내는 표현)와 같은 사소한 문제부터 2010~2015년 OWNE, 3RR, 합의 무시 같은 보다 심각한 문제까지, 2016년에는 없었던 명확한 대화 페이지 합의를 노골적으로 주장하기까지.이러한 링크를 따라가다 보면 AN/I와 RfC 외에 다른 3RR 및 대화 페이지 토론이 많이 있었다는 것을 알 수 있을 것이다. BMK는 개인적인 의견에 찬성하는 광범위한 합의를 무시하면서 매번 제재와 차단을 회피하면서 "현 상태로 되돌리기"를 결정했다. 2017년 9월 17일, 17:10, 17:17 (UTC)
두 사용자 모두 이러한 파괴적인 편집 전쟁에 차단되지 않은 것은 매우 행운이지만, 내가 알기로는 오직 BMK만이 이러한 행동의 오랜 패턴을 가지고 있는 것으로 알고 있다.내가 틀렸나? --존(토크) 10시 40분, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
@John: 둘 다 차단했어야 한다는 것은 잘 알고 있지만, 편집자 중 한 사람만이 다른 사용자에 대해 어처구니없는 제재를 제안했다.그리고 네가 틀렸어, 위의 내 대답을 봐.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 15:50, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 당신이 그들이 터무니없다고 생각한다면, 그것은 당신이 대안을 제안하는 것이다.위의 답변은? --존(대화) 17:31, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그 대안은 제안할 필요가 없는, 당면한 문제를 논의하는 것이다.내 대답은 요약해서 말한다. [나는] 유능블록이 BMK에 배치된 지 몇 년이 지났다. 그것에서 1RR로 가는 것은 말도 안 된다.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 17:36, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
컨텐츠 문제는 거의 즉시 해결되었으며 AN/I가 컨텐츠 분쟁에 관한 것이 아니기 때문에 AN/I로 가져가지 말았어야 했다.남은 것은 제재 없이 수년째 나른한 나날을 보내고 있는 비욘드 마이 켄의 행동 문제다.Bright☀ 17:54, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 7번 되돌아가 1RR 제한으로 상대를 맞히기를 원하는 편집 전쟁에 참여하는 누군가가 ANI 논의에서 일반적으로 모든 양측의 편집을 고려할 때 고려할 수 있다.문제에 있어서 한 편집자의 행동이 특히 터무니없는 것이 아니라면(즉, BLP 위반 삽입) 이 경우는 그렇지 않다.블랙 카이트 (토크) 11:01, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
논평 BrightR은 그들이 대화에서 논의한 편집을 했다.그들은 거기서 다음과 같은 진술을 받았다.IPC 정보는 1차 소스에 의해 소싱된다: pop cuklture 항목 자체. 따라서 그것은 "소싱되지 않은" 것이 아니므로 마음대로 제거할 수 없다. 다른 논쟁의 여지가 있는 다른 정보들처럼, 그것은 토크 페이지에서 논의되어야 하고, 합의에 도달했다. 이것은 "tactic"이 아니다. 이것은 위키피디아 절차를 따르고 있다. 나는 당신에게도 그렇게 하라고 제안한다." 그리고 편집 전쟁이 이어졌다.BrightR은 6개의 (7개가 아니라) 되돌리기를 했다. 이제, 나는 "올바른" 것이 편집 전쟁에 대한 방어책이 아니라는 것을 알지만, 그들이 정책의 해석에 대해 "틀린" 것을 알아야 하고, 그리고 그것에 대해 "틀린" 것을 알아야 하기 때문에, BMK에 어떤 종류의 제재 또는 최소한 훈계가 주어지면 도움이 될 수 있다. 그리고 나는 이것이 하나의 패턴이라고 알고 있기 때문이다.수년 동안 지속되어 온 문제 있는 행동BrightR에게 비슷한 훈계가 주어지더라도 나는 문제가 없을 것이다.여기서 해서는 안 되는 일은 아예 아무것도 아니다, 그렇지 않으면 평생 석 달에 한 번씩 이 일에 대해 다시 이야기할 것이다. --존(토크) 11:47, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 니흘러스 크릭과 블랙 카이트 반대. -- 2017년 9월 17일 11시 31분 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 현재로서는 반대하지만, BMK는 관련 정책과 편집의 합의를 이해하지 못하는 것 같으며, 이런 식으로 계속 편집하는 것은 향후 어떤 조치가 필요할 수도 있다.@My Ken을 넘어서: 부디 조언을 구하라.폴 아우구스트 인터뷰 14:44, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
문제는, "현재"가 약 10년 동안 계속되어 왔다는 것이다...BMK가 제재가 없는 상태에서 내릴 때마다 "당분간"Bright☀ 15:24, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여기 있는 다른 사람들의 추리에 따라 반대하라.그리고 Bright는 그가 좋아하지 않는 것들을 삭제하는 것을 그만둘 필요가 있다.이것은 단지 미화된 콘텐츠 논쟁일 뿐이다.base야구 벅스 당근→ 16:01, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대하라 IPC 섹션이 적어도 80-90%의 하찮은 쓰레기이고 그것들 없이 우리가 더 잘 살 것이라는 나 자신의 견해에도 불구하고, 나는 어떻게 BMK의 행동이 프로젝트 전체에서 1RR을 정당화할 만큼 터무니없었는지 모르겠다.문제 영역(IPC)에 보다 엄격하게 초점을 맞춘 제한은 더 정당화될 수 있다.쇼크여단 하베스터 보리스 (대화) 2017년 9월 17일 16:20 (UTC)[응답]
  • Bright BrightR은 WP를 위해 노력하고 있는 것으로 보인다.시스템을 게임하십시오.마넷D 토크 16:38, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 이것은 명백히 콘텐츠 논쟁에서 Bright가 우위를 차지하기 위한 정치적 시도다.아마 시스템 게임을 하고 모든 사람의 시간을 낭비한 죄로 벌을 받아야 할 사람일 것이다. --Certified Gangsta (토크) 16:41, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
BMK를 고려한 상당한 비난은 내가 아닌 AN/I에게 문제를 가져왔다.자신의 버전으로 되돌아가기 위해서는 합의를 무시한 그의 저장 역사를 고려해야 한다.Bright☀ 17:08, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
그것도 이상한 비난이야, 콘텐츠 논쟁에 관한 한, 이곳에서는 BMK가 잘못되었다는 거의 벽대벽 공감대가 형성되어 있었다는 점에서...이전 RfCs 및 정책 위에...Bright: 17:35, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 앙심을 품은 게임술로서 반대하라.이 제안은 WP가 가치가 있을 수 있다는 점에서 골치 아픈 것에 가깝다.부메랑. - —/Mendaliv///Δ's 16:43, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 냉소적인 시스템 게임을 반대한다.그리고 그래 존, 틀렸어. -Roxy the dog. 17:38, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답하라]
게임 방법?나는 몇 번이고 되풀이해서 문제가 된 행동 문제를 제기하고 있다...Bright☀ 17:48, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
흥미롭군내가 틀렸다고 믿고 싶지만 난 증거에 기반을 둔 사람이고 그것에 대한 증거를 보지 못한다.좀 있어? --존(토크) 18:00, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 정말 나쁜 생각에 반대하라.BMK는 편집 전쟁 중인 사용자가 아니다.만약 당신이 당신의 사건을 지지하기 위해 2008년부터 무언가를 꺼내야만 한다면, 그것은 당신이 케이스가 없다는 것을 의미한다.레거시pac (대화) 2017년 9월 17일 18:16 (UTC)[응답]
  • 1RR bs 반대, 그다지 밝지 않다는 이유로 Bright 지원. –Davey2010Talk 18:29, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 - 더 최근의 시대와 관련 있는 몇 가지 증거를 보고 기다린 후, 나는 지금 1RR을 집행할 만큼 충분히 보이지 않는다. 특히 1RR은 IPC 섹션에 대해 더 그럴듯할 것이다. 그러나 그것은 제안되고 있는 것이 아니다.프로젝트 전체에 대해 1RR BMK로 과잉 살상이다.BMK는 또한 그가 이 대화에 참여하거나, 그 기사를 편집하고, 더 이상 되돌리기를 하는 것을 끝냈으며, 그것이 이 섹션이 시작되기 전이었다고 위에서 진술했다.막을 것은 아무것도 없다.말하자면, Bright와 BMK 둘 다 반복적인 편집 전쟁에 대해 훈계해야 한다.Bright와 John도 여기에 있는 것만큼 대답하지 말고 막대기를 내려놔야 한다.이 문제에 대한 당신의 입장은 이해된다.안녕, — Moe Epsilon 21:03, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 - 그것은 나쁜 생각이다.레거시팍이 이미 말했듯이, 거의 10년 전의 무언가를 꺼내야 하는 것은 당신의 경우를 전혀 지지하지 않는다.BrightR이 WP를 시도하는 것처럼 보인다.시스템을 게임하십시오.마일스 엣지워스 21:22, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

법적위협

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

아나킨 스카이워커 825(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)의 이 게시물을 참조한다.마넷D톡 03:57, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

다양한 이유로 인해 차단됨.아크로테리온 (대화) 04:10, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

게이, 레즈비언 또는 양성애자 목록:g

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

동성애자, 레즈비언 또는 양성애자 목록: G (토크 히스토리 링크편집로그를 본다) 여기서 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지 모르지만 뭔가 이상해 보인다.

  • diff 1 2600:1:b112:5ec:dc7d:4ee2:f684:3b0d ES:Unded revision 799880279 by G-골린 (talk) 유죄판결된 윤리 위반자 조지 골린은 다시 자기편집
  • diff 1 G-골린 ES: 비파괴 개정

편집자:

짐1138 (대화) 08:13, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]

@Jim1138: 예, 추가에 대한 "출처"는 비지원적인 공격 페이지로 연결된다.이것은 분명히 7월부터 계속되어 왔고, 그들은 명백히 괴롭힘이다.나는 현재 48시간 동안 두 개의 최신 IP를 차단했고, 3일 동안 페이지를 반보호했으며, 내가 찾을 수 있는 3개의 편집에 대한 수정본을 삭제했다.알렉스 시Talk 08:28, 2017년 9월 18일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:토크에서 히레니:브레이트바트 뉴스

현재 Talk:에서 편집 전쟁이 진행되고 있다.Breitbart News는 몇몇 편집자들이 (나를 포함한) 부적절하다고 생각하는 논평에 대해 언급하고 있다.이것은 아마도 3RR 보고서 이상의 가치가 있을 것이다. (는 이 페이지보고 있지 않으니, 주의를 끌려면 ping을 해줘.) --닥터. 플라이슈만 (대화) 23:03, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 당신이 말하는 소위 "편집 전쟁"을 중단했다(당신이 말하는 나의 편집에 대한 나의 마지막 설치도 삭제했다.내가 어떤 가이드라인을 위반했는지는 어느 순간도 알리지 못했다(그리고 나는 아직도 편집자 한 사람으로부터 어떤 가이드라인을 나에게 알려달라는 메시지를 기다리고 있다).깨우쳐지기를 기다린다.히레니 (토크) 2017년 9월 20일 23시 15분 (UTC)[응답]

WP를 참조하십시오.TPG. 기사토크 페이지는 위키백과나 그 정책에 대한 의견 불일치나 불만의 표현을 위한 비누 상자가 아니다.각 기사의 개선 사항을 논의하는 자리다.당신의 게시물은 개선을 위한 어떠한 제안도 하지 않았고 건설적인 제안도 하지 않았다; 기사의 내용이 만족스럽게 바뀌지 않는 한 그 프로젝트에 기부하지 않겠다고 큰 소리로 외치는 것은 위키백과 편집자에게 적절한 행동이 아니다.우리는 재정적인 위협에 대응하지 않는다. 왜냐하면 우리 중 누구도 그 기부로부터 어떤 것도 받지 못하기 때문이다.돈에 대한 당신의 분노는 말 그대로 우리 모두에게 아무런 영향도 주지 않는다.만약 당신이 기사에 변화가 필요하다고 믿는다면, 당신은 정중하게 구체적이고 실행 가능한 이슈들을 개략적으로 설명하고, 당신이 생각하기에 변경되어야 한다고 생각하는 변경을 뒷받침하는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 제공할 필요가 있다.노스비사우스바라노프 (대화) 23:21, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

FYI, 나는 다른 곳에서 건설적인 제안을 했어.나는 또한 기사에서 POV에 대한 정당한 우려를 제기했다.내가 유일한 사람이 아니다.토크 페이지에서 나의 고민을 지워버린 것은 나뿐만이 아니라는 것도 분명하다.내가 실제로 쓴 글을 읽어라:나는 그 프로젝트에 기부하지 않을 것이라고 "큰 소리로" 말하지 않았다.나는 위키피디아에서 내가 양심에 거리낄 수 없는 누군가와 나눈 대화를 기사 편집에 있어서 그런 터무니없는 편견을 허용하는 프로젝트에 기부하는 것으로 다시 인쇄했다.내 요점을 이해하려면 이 단어를 다시 써야 한다면, 좋아.그런데 '토크'의 요점은 내가 했던 글의 내용과 편집에 대한 견해와 반대 의견을 나누는 것이다.그러나, 토크 페이지에 대한 일부 견해는 편집 패러다임에 받아들여지지 않는 것으로 보인다.내가 한 말의 본질을 증명하는군네가 네 주장을 관철하기 위해 더 큰 칼을 휘두르고 경기장에서 내 검을 침묵시켜야 한다고 느낀다니 유감이다.만약 그것이 당신의 목표라면(당신이 그렇게 강력하게 지지한다고 주장하는 위키피디아의 테너에 역행하는 것이기 때문에 나는 그것이 아니기를 바란다), 음, 중죄인.히레니 (토크) 23:47, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

당신이 다른 곳에서 유용했든 아니든 간에, 그 페이지의 내용이 당신 자신의 신념에 부합하지 않기 때문에 WP에 대한 길고 가느다란 비난의 편집 전쟁은 단지 파괴적인 것에 지나지 않았다.그리고 다시는 나에게 이메일을 보내지 마.ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it.00:03, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답하라]

당신이 나의 우려를 "귀찮게 여기는 비난"으로 묘사하고 있기 때문에, 나는 당신에게 다음과 같은 명시적인 지침을 상기시켜주겠다: "친절하고 새로운 사용자들을 환영하라; 선의를 가지라; 인신공격은 피하라; 분쟁의 경우, 분쟁 해결을 구하라."또한 내가 Breitbart News에 나의 개인적인 신념을 진술한 적이 없고, 단지 IMHO(당신에게 당신에 대한 자격을 부여함)만이 그 기사에 POV에 대한 명백한 위반이 있다고 진술할 수 있도록 하겠다.그리고 그것을 말하는 것은 나뿐만이 아니다.그러니 나에 대한 당신의 진술이 예의 바르게, 선의로 가정하는 등의 이러한 원칙과 일치한다면, 어떻게 된 일인지 설명해 줘, 위키피디아인으로서 당신의 뛰어난 모범을 따르는 법을 더 잘 배울 수 있도록. Herenny추가한 선행 미서명 논평 (대화기여) 00:20, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 결코 너를 음탕한 사상가라고 부르지 않았다. 그래서 만약 당신이 당신의 논평이 "음탕한 비난"으로 특징지어지는 것에 반대한다면, 당신이 할 수 있는 가장 좋은 일은 대화 페이지에 음탕한 글을 게시하는 것을 중단하는 것이다.그리고 확실히 그들을 계속 보도하기 위한 전쟁을 편집하지 마라.그리고 만약 당신이 새로운 사용자라면, 당신은 당신의 사용자 이름을 도둑맞거나, 제공받거나, 구매한 적이 있는데, 이것은 일반적으로 방어막힘을 초래하는 정책 위반이다.그래서 당신은 새로운 사용자인가?아니면 당신은 2005년에 당신의 계정을 등록한 사용자인가?ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 12:30, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"나는 브라이트바트 뉴스에 내 개인적인 믿음을 말한 적이 없다. 단지 IMHO에 대해서만" - 음, "IMHO"가 보통 하는 일을 의미한다고 가정할 때, 당신은 정확히 여기서 이치에 맞지 않는다. 자원봉사 마렉 09:31, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
Breitbart News에 대해 편견을 가지고 있다고 불평했기 때문에 오줌을 누고 있는 게 틀림없어.나는 당신이 자신이 있다고 믿는 현실을 즐길 시간이 없고, 다른 사람들도 그들의 것을 구할 것을 제안한다.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 00:34, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
Breitbart의 웹사이트에 대한 편향은 위키피디아 페이지 Breitbart News의 편향과는 별개의 문제다.power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:41, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
@Power~enwiki:내가 분명히 말했지. (이것은 너의 편집과 일치하지 않는 편집 요약에 대한 답신이야.)위키는 보수당의 곤경에 대한 토론회가 아니며, 어떠한 신랄한 대응도 매우 적절하다고 설명되었다.니흘러스 크라이크 (대화) 01:02, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
당신이 그 기사에 대해 잘못되었다고 믿는 것이 무엇이라고 생각하는지, 불평에 대한 선의의 편집 토의를 가능하게 하는 용어로 실행 가능한 용어로 설명하시오."이 기사는 현재 기사에 실린 출처와 일치하지 않는 출처 X를 생략하고 있어 그 관점이 공정하게 포함되지 않는다." "제3항의 문구는 귀속되지 않은 사실로서 의견을 제시한다.그런 것, 그리고 당신의 주장을 뒷받침할 수 있는 믿을만한 출처와 정책에 대한 언급이 있다.당사의 정책에 대해 잘 모르면 WP:5P를 읽어 보십시오.노스비사우스바라노프 (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 00:53 (UTC)[응답]

자, 자.마침내 누군가가 그 문제에 대해 일리가 있다고 말했다.Breitbart 기사에서 POV의 문제에 대해 이런 종류의 용어를 사용했던 사람들이 나처럼 해고되고 얼룩져 이 실에 빠져 있다는 것은 유감스러운 일이다.WP:5P의 중요성을 지지하면서, 여러분은 분명 여기서 다른 의견들에 대해 메모를 할 것이고, 그들에게 포인트 #4를 상기시킬 것이다.그리고 2번...히레니 (토크) 06:38, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

당신은 "숨어지지" 않았다. 자원봉사 마렉 09:32, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
Herrenny, 나는 모든 사람들이 불쾌감을 주는 코멘트를 제거하기 위해 당신의 자기반복에 감사한다고 생각한다.만약 여러분이 진정으로 백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기에 온다면, 여러분은 막대기를 내려놓고, 여기서 합의된 것들이 받아들일만하다고 생각하는 편집자의 행동에 대해 그만 이야기를 하고, 다시 Talk:건설적이고 실속 있는 말을 할 수 있는 Breitbart News. (나는 이 페이지보고 있지 않으니까,관심을 받고 싶으면 ping해 줘.) --Dr. 플라이슈만 (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 16:32 (UTC)[응답]

중단 IP

IP는 74.243.223.134로, 소싱되지 않은 추가, 소싱된 자료 삭제, 프린지 자료 추가 등을 통해 소싱된 컨텐츠를 계속 변경하고 있으며, 수많은 다른 편집자들의 통신 시도는 모두 무시하고 있다.

차이: [27], [28], [29]

필요한 사람이 있으면 사용자 페이지를 보면 쉽게 더 많은 것을 찾을 수 있다. 지금까지 내가 볼 수 있는 한 어떤 편집도 건설적이지 않았다. [30].

여러 가지 경고는 [31]에서 확인할 수 있다.알레프 (대화) 04:46, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

우리는 웨이브테이블 합성에 심각한 POV 파괴를 가지고 있다.

그래서 나는 별로 신경을 쓰지 않고 있었지만, 몇 년 전에 User에 의해 만들어진 명확한 POV 포크인 테이블 룩업 합성이라는 기사가 있었다.클러스터 노트는 마침내 Wavetable 합성에 병합되었다(아마 간단히 삭제되었어야 했을 것이다).이제 Clusternote는 Wavetable 합성의 led를, 바로 led 문장에서, 용어가 잘못된 nomermer라고 말하도록 바꾸고 있다.그것은 전혀 아무런 가치가 없다.나는 그의 변화를 되돌렸고 그는 가 반달이라고 주장하며 그것을 되돌렸다.이것은 클러스터노트가 매우 가식적인 편집자이기 때문에 도움이 필요할 것이다.그의 영어 또한 꽤 서툴다. 오래전에 나는 그를 일본에서 찾을 수 있었다.

여기서 도움이 좀 필요할 것 같아. 173.48.64.110 (대화) 05:03, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

이미 양말인형이 나타난 것 같다. 173.48.64.110 (토크) 05:23, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 내용상의 논쟁이다.기사의 토크 페이지에서 토의할 필요가 있다.양말 인형뽑기 비난은 최근의 변화를 감시하고 있었던 누군가가 한 번 되돌린 것에 근거한 것으로 보인다.닌자로봇피리테 (토크) 08:31, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

필리페 올리베이라 (축구선수, 1995년생)

Filipe Oliveira (Footballer, 1995년 출생) (토크 히스토리 링크 watch log 편집) IP 주소는 모든 편집에 따라 변경된다.PP 좀 주시겠습니까?고마워 짐1138 (대화) 05:17, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

이 페이지는 임블란터에 의해 보호되었다. --말콤플렉스5 (대화) 11:39, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

이란 민족주의자

사용자는 다른 문제뿐만 아니라 편향(및 다른 PA'sd를 중단하라는 요청을 받은 지 오래 후)에 대한 비난을 계속해왔다.

검열[32] [33] 및 정부의 대리인[34] 및 편견[35]의 고발

나는 그에게 멈추라고 부탁했다.

[36]

그의 대답은 다음과 같았다.

[37][38]

추가(다른 페이지에서는 몇 개만 더)

[39]

[40]

[41]

슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11:36, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

더 많은 것이 있지만 나는 그냥 내버려두고 있었다. 그는 분명히 영어를 모국어로 하는 사람이 아니다.문제는 이것이 여러 페이지를 넘어섰고 그가 지금 그 점을 받아들였음에도 불구하고 여전히 내가 편견을 가지고 있다고 비난하고 있다는 것이다.슬레이터스티븐 (대화) 11시 40분, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 지금 내가 이 ani에 대한 경고를 게시한 것이 파괴적이라고 말하고 있다 [42] 그리고 이어서 이 [43]Slatersteven (대화) 11:52, 2017년 9월 17일 (UTC)[응답]

다음 의견을 고려하십시오.
  • "Pahlevun은 아마도 이슬람교도 :v" [44]
  • "우리 속담에 "낙타를 활로(숨어서) 타는 것은 불가능하다. 유명한 재미난 미신(사원의 유명한 문간)을 가지고 그것을 숨겨?" [45] ( 페르시아어로 번역하면, 무슨 뜻인지 궁금할 경우를 대비해서 내가 "엄청난 비밀스런 일"을 하고 있었음을 암시한다.
  • "팔레번검열하고 있는같은데...[46]
  • "하지만 팔레분은 그 검열하고...[47]
  • "노트를 추가하고 싶은데, 사용자 파울레분은 페르시아어 이름을 가지고 있어... 검열에 대해 더 말할 필요가 있을까? 위키백과사전인가? 아니면 정치적 전쟁터? Jimmy Wales 사무소에 근무하는 직원들에게는 멋진 일일 수 있다[48].
  • "폴레번이 왜 말했는지 물어봐도...는 이 강연에서 편견분명히 볼 수 있다:v" [49]
  • "누군가가 내용을 검열하려 한다... 또한 당신은 배후를 찾기 위해 누구를 데려갈 수도 있다. 좋은 달러 좀 가져라 :v" [50]
  • "역시 이건... 폴레반의 오류... Pahlevun은 이슬람 공화국을 지지하고 있는가? 위키피디아는 정치적 전쟁을 위한 것인가? [51]
  • "문제는 파흘레번이 말했을 때... 이것은 내가 반복해서 말한 검열이다"[52]
  • "나는 내 상상력을 (무슬림 반대론) 누구에게도 강요하지 않는다... 누군가가 진이 있다고 믿거나 말거나 하는 것은 우리가 얼마나 이성적이기원하는지에 근거한 개인적인 결정이다.] [53]

Pahlevun (대화) 11:49, 2017년 9월 19일 (UTC)[응답]

불경 및 갈등 에스컬레이션

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

안녕.나는 이것을 설명할 다른 방법이 없다. 그리고 나는 100% 여기가 이것을 보도하기에 가장 좋은 장소라고 확신하지는 않지만, (내가 지금 진술할 기사 반달리즘의 사건에 개입하고 있는 경험이 풍부한 위키백과 편집자(@Drmies:)가 먼지가 가라앉은 후 바로 그때 "젠장 꺼져, 트롤"을 언급하는 것이 적절한가?문제의 기사는 지난 한 달 동안 일련의 브리티시 텔레콤 IP 주소에서 이상하게 편집된, Micronauts, Scarlett (G.I. Joe) 등 소규모 기사 집단이었다.다른 편집자들은 이것을 알아차렸고 IP 주소에는 임시 블록이 있었다.지금—바로 오늘—블록이 만료되고 동일한 편집 더미가 발생한다.그러던 중 마법의 새 사용자가 불쑥 나타나(@Macro The Islander:) 드레이우스와 개인적인 허튼소리에 빠지게 된다.

좋아, 그럼...먼지가 가라앉았고 이제 우리 모두는 함께 "놀" 방법을 알게 되었다.난 점심 먹으러 나갔다가 돌아와서 아무 이유 없이 드레이즈 "젠장, 트롤"이라고 글을 올린다.이게 무슨 헛소리야?그리고 누구에 대한 가치와 가치에 대해서?나는 @Floquenbeam:와 @Biografer: 그들이 이 허튼소리의 일면을 보았기 때문에 핑핑하고 있다.궁극적으로 나를 혼란스럽게 하는 것은 드라이어스(Drmies)가 갑자기, 그리고 내 관점에서는 부당한 욕설 사용이라는 것이다.모든 것이 진정 진정 진정되는 듯하더니 노련한 편집자가 F-폭탄만 그렇게 떨어뜨리는가?…왜? --스파이매지션 (토크)20:09, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

와우, 정말 대단했어불경죄에 대한 영장은 없지만 이번 사건에서는 그냥 충분히 먹은 것 같다.--바이오그라퍼 (대화)2015, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
왜냐고? 이해할 수 있는 좌절감 때문이다.나는 이 뒷이야기의 일부를 알지 못했다. 그렇지 않았다면 나는 사용자:매크로 아일랜드인, 나는 90%의 트롤링 가능성, 10%의 지나치게 열성적인 미크로만 그룹일 가능성이 있다고 생각했다.그러나 관련 기사에 이런 패턴의 편집 이력이 있고, 새로운 사용자가 그 재개를 하는 도중에 뛰어들었다면, 균형이 100% 트롤링할 수 있는 가능성으로 바뀌었을 겁니다.유토피아에 있는 동안, 사람들은 자제와 사랑과 공손한 입담으로 트롤들의 끊임없는 공격에 반응하지만, 우리 평범한 인간들은 누군가가 우리의 버튼을 누르는 데 성공했을 때 때때로 인내심을 잃는다.일회성 짜증나는 댓글에 대한 ANI의 실마리가 생산적이지도, 그리 동정적이지도 않다고 생각한다. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:18, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
(분쟁 편집 × 3) 드레이아스가 오늘 유난히 나쁜 일을 참아야 했다고 내가 말할 수 있는 바로는, 이것과 관련이 없다고 생각하지만...오, 나는 그냥 말하려고 한다: 새로운 사용자가 이 기사에 등장하고 그들의 첫 편집된 내용은 관리자의 편집된 반달리즘이라고 다시 부르고 있다.그리고 나서 그들은 토크 페이지에 노골적인 인신 공격을 담고 있는 새로운 실을 연다.그리고 나서 그들은 "반달리즘"에 대한 암시만 담고 있는 사용자 페이지를 만든다.그리고 나서 AIV에서 Drmies를 보고한다.어느 부분이 트롤링하지 않았는가?이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
어쨌든 트롤 파괴적인 위키하운드는 차단되었다.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 20:20, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
@Biografer:@Ivanvector:@Floquenbeam:충분히 공평한 관점이지만, 내가 말하건대, "핵폭탄"은 왼쪽 들판에서 나왔고, 먼지가 가라앉고 난 후에 침착한 균형을 맞췄다.그 행동이나 언어에 대한 타당한 이유는 없다.그것은 이미 끝난 문제였다.왜 'F-폭탄'으로 다시 생기를 되찾을까…스파이매지션(토크) 20:23, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
어쩌면 지금도 말하게 만든 편집 갈등이었을까?--바이오그라퍼 (대화) 20:27, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
@Ivanvector:그리고 편집자의 그 이상한 환영을 막아줘서 고마워. --스파이매지션 (토크) 20:24, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
아, 내가 아니었어, 여기서 코멘트를 하지 않은 사람이었어.하지만 나는 그것을 하는 것에 대해 정말 골똘히 생각했어.이반벡터 (/)TalkEdits 20:25, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
FWIW, 이것은 아마도 내가 위키피디아에서 본 것 중 가장 형편없는 기사일 것이다.만약 드레이즈가 그것을 치우려고 했고 다른 누군가가 계속 이 상태로 복구했다면, 나는 전적으로 그에게 동정할 수 있다; 이 정도로 나쁜 기사는 위키피디아에 있을 곳이 없다.무지개빛 20:25, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
@Iridescent: 나는 그것이 어떻게 가장 형편없는 출처인지 모르겠다.응, 유튜브 ref가 2개 있지만(ref 59, 61개) 다른 출처는 괜찮다. :)---바이오그라퍼(토크) 20:32, 2017년 9월 20일(UTC)[응답]
정말? 당신은 이것이 (참고자료의 26개만을 차지하는) 톰의 미크로맨존, "스쿨데이즈 기념품", "트랜스포머 위키" 등이 믿을만한 출처가 된다고 생각하는가?무지개빛 20:45, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
@Iridescent:이들 블로그와 팬 사이트 중 상당수는 일본 출처 자료에서 직접 번역한 정보를 담고 있다.비일본어권 국가에서는 접근할 수 없는 자료.가능한 경우 일차 소스가 제공된다.만약 인용 부호가 너무 많다면 그것을 처리하자.하지만 내가 장담하건대 여기에는 독창적인 연구가 없다.하지만 만약 당신이 당신의 주장에 대해 진지하게 생각한다면, 우리는 마이크로먼을 위한 토크 페이지에서 토론할 수 있는가 아니면 당신은 그것이 모두 쓰레기라고 생각하겠는가? 말은 그냥 2014년 페이지로 되돌아가면 되는 거겠죠? --스파이매지션 (대화) 20:54, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 여기 Iriescent에 동의한다고 생각한다 - 그 사이트들은 믿을만한 곳에 가깝지도 않다.트랜스포머 위키?정보를 수집하는 사람의 이름조차 알리지 않는 '마이크로맨 포에버'라는 페이지?그리고 더 그렇게?믿을 수 없어. 그리고 Drmies가 그것들을 제거하고 있다면, 훨씬 더 좋을 거야.aldgyth - Talk 21:51, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
@Biografer:고마워! @Iridescent:알다시피, 나는 이 장난감 라인에 대해 내가 알고 있는 것과 그것이 역사라는 것을 바탕으로 존경받는 자료들을 사용하여 실질적으로 아무것도 아닌 것에서 그 기사를 만들어 낸 사람이다.엄청 많네.내가 그것에 대해 긍정적인 무언가를 하기로 결정하기 2014년에 이것이 어떻게 생겼는지 보여준다; 그때는 그것은 가치도 없고 거름보다 약간 더 나았다.이 모든 혼란은 브리티시 텔레콤의 익명의 IP 주소들이 "복사 편집"이라는 근거 아래 설명되지 않은 전면적인 변경을 했을 때 일어났다.Drmies는 나중에야 들어왔고 (만약 당신이 내가 생산적인 토론을 시도하는 것을 본다면) 나는 충고를 마음에 새겨두고 있는 것이다.나는 기꺼이 이것을 치우는 것을 도울 것이다.하지만 위키피디아는 선의를 전제로 하는 것이 아닌가?이것들은 죽은 장난감 선들이며, 내 의도는 죽을 수도 있지만 강한 역사를 가진 이 선들에 대한 확실한 세부사항을 제공하는 것이다.그게 다야.우리가 선의를 가지고 앞으로 나아갈 수 있을까? --스파이매지션 (대화) 20:35, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
(편집 갈등) WP:PACT. 나는 드레이즈가 차단된 편집자와 선의의 가정을 했어야 할 이유가 없다고 본다. 그리고 그는 당신과 선의의 가정을 하고 있다. 그는 무엇이 좋은 원천이고 무엇이 백과사전인지에 대해 의견 차이를 가지고 있다.나는 G등급을 받지만, 최근 그가 상대하고 있는 허튼 수치로 그의 좌절을 이해할 수 있다.그를 좀 쉬게 해라.그에 대해 어떻게 생각하시는지요? 78.26 20:51, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 나는 욕설이 그렇지 않으면 단조로운 진술에 강조를 더하는 단어일 뿐이고, 독서를 싫어하는 단어(생각도 아닌 단어, 단지 단어)를 우연히 읽게 되어 화를 내는 성숙한 사람이 얼마나 우스꽝스러운지를 미묘하게 지적하여 잘 숙고하고 인내하며 공손하게 논평할 생각이었다.그 일로 야단법석을 떨다하지만 인터넷의 사람들이 얼마나 민감한지 생각해봤고 그래서 난 그냥 꺼져버리기로 결심했어 내 똥꼬처럼 말이야ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:47, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • 반달이라 불리는 우리의 가장 훌륭한 관리자들 중 한 명으로부터 순간적이고 이해할 수 있는 예의의 오류.트롤이 이제 변명을 막았어 드레이즈가 다시 할 생각이 없는 건 확실해여기서 논의할 것이 없는 것 같아. --존(토크) 21:04, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]
  • "롤"이 매크로의 인물이라는 게 분명해야 한다고 말할 수 있을까?내 말은, 심각하게.위키피디아에서 감탄할 수 있는 어제의 트롤과 아마 같은 사람일 것이다.Sockpuppet 조사/DisgrundledGrunt, 그리고 누가 이 편집자와 차례로 연결되었는지, 또는 방금 이 편집본에 뛰어든 초기 h8er이다(여기서 더 자세히 설명함).그래서, 이것은 갑자기 나오지 않는다.Drmies (토크) 00:22, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 사용자는 차단 해제 조건을 계속 해제함

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

어둠의 빛이라고 불리는 사용자는 1RR 제한을 포함한 일부 조건에 따라 5월에 무기한 차단되었다가 해제되었다.그러나 그들은 반복적으로 이 상태를 깨뜨린다.그들은 계속 편집전을 벌이고 있다.패트리어트 기도에 관한 몇 가지 예[55][56], 멀레 딕슨에 관한 [57][58], 미얀마의 로힝야 박해에 관한 [59][60].그들은 또한 31시간 동안 편집 전쟁을 했다[61].그러나 차단되지 않은 조건을 반복적으로 위반하는 것은 그들에게 다시 무기한 차단 조치가 부과되어야 한다는 것을 의미하지 않는가?@AlexEng: and @future Perfect at Sunlay:67.181.94.84 (토크) 23:58, 2017년 9월 20일 (UTC)[응답]

FYI 링크 사용자 대화:어둠은 빛난다# 2017년 9월 마지막 블록에 관한 이야기-Moxy (토크) 00:06, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각에 이것은 DS의 토크 페이지에 있는 한 줄기에 의해 처리된 것 같다.그렇다, 문제가 있었지만, 이 보고서는 DS가 기사 등에 기여하는 것을 막으면서도 발견했던 많은 양말들 중 하나일 수도 있어, 상황을 더 동요시키려는 시도로 보인다.그 유저의 토크 실에 타인의 많은 코멘트를 실어나르기로 했으니, 어떻게 되어 가는지 보자. - 시투시(토크) 00:09, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
그 논의는 단지 지난 한 달 동안 전쟁을 편집하는 장기적인 행동과 관련이 없다.이 토론은 그가 BLP 문제를 제기했던 마지막 편집 전쟁에 관한 것일 뿐 그가 1RR을 깨뜨린 다른 페이지들에 관한 것은 아니다. 1RR은 그의 차단되지 않은 조건이었다.그리고 그는 계속해서 그것을 깨뜨린다.~~ — 67.181.94.84 (토크) 00:16, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답] 의한 선행 미서명 의견
WP:NOTPUNICTIVE, 사용자가 자신이 파괴적이라는 것을 증명하기 전까지는 블록이 필요하지 않다.알렉스엥(TALK) 00:18, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
그 행동은 명백히 파괴적인 태도를 보여준다.DS의 또 다른 미차단 조건인 ~~ — 67.181.94.84 (토크) 00:26, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답] 앞에 추가되지 않은 코멘트

[62] 67.181.94.84 (대화) 00:28, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)에 의해 추가된 이전의 부호 없는 의견[답글]

당신의 예시는 최근 블록 이후에 나온 것이 하나도 없다.그행동이 계속되지 않는다면,왜 그 행동해야 하는가 지금 공동체는?알렉스엥(TALK) 00:29, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

DS는 다른 사용자를 위해 'idiot'이라는 단어를 사용했다.그것은 그의 무례한 예의범절을 깨뜨린다.[63]67.181.94.84 (토크) 00:31, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC) {{ping AlexEng]} 공동체는 그의 행동 문제를 모두 보지 않았다고 생각한다.그들은 단지 1개의 편집 전쟁을 보았다.31시간 블록은 끊임없이 잘못된 행동을 하는 사람에게 불충분하다.~~ — 67.181.94.84 (토크) 00:35, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답] 의한 선행 미서명 의견

너 여기 피 튀는 것 같아.나는 그 사실 이후 이 논의를 그렇게 늦게 재탕할 이유가 없다고 생각한다.알렉스엥(TALK) 00:42, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
나도 동의해.DS는 주어진 조언을 받아들이기로 약속했다.블럭을 칠 만한 타당한 이유가 없다.K. 04:20, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

저작권 위반은 멈추지 않는다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

여보세요. 저작권이 있는 이미지의 지속적인 업로드에 대해 하쿨리(토크 · 기여 · 삭제 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)에 대해 대응할 때가 되었는가?사용자 토크 페이지는 2016년부터 삭제통지와 최종 경고문 등으로 채워져 있지만 사용자가 이를 무시하는 모양새다.이것은 지금 상당히 파괴적인... --ąnαșαη (ταl) 00:03, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

이러한 위반은 신참에 의한 것이 아니다.블록. 아스프로 (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 00:15 (UTC)[응답]
48시간 동안 차단(메시지만이 아닌 블록을 볼 수 있도록 하기 위해), 다음 침해행위는 변명의 여지없이 차단될 것이라는 경고와 함께.단순히 메시지가 아니라 블록으로 상황이 고조됐으니 마지막 기회를 줄 수 있지만, 블록에서 돌아와 계속 진행한다면 어떤 것도 바뀔 것이라고 기대할 이유가 없기 때문에 무기한은 합리적일 것이다.나이튼(토크) 02:09, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:사용자 페이지에서 민족 그룹을 폄하하기 위해 편집기를 에그하는 Resnjari 알그리기

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

일리르페디아 (대화 · 기여)는 위키피디아[65] [66]에 삽입하려는 시도가 실패한 후, 미국 대통령이 전체 민족 집단을 폄하하는 인용문을 그들의 사용자 페이지[64]에 게재했다.나는 그것을 제거했고, 그 후 레스나리(토크 · 기여)가 나를 되돌리고 인용문을 복원했다[67].그러자 그는 뻔뻔스럽게도 나를 '롤'이라고 부르고 나서 일리르페디아를 부추겨 인용문[69] [70] [71]을 복원시켰다.두 사용자 모두 최근 편집 워링 때문에 차단되었다.이것을 처리하는 데 어떤 도움이라도 감사할 것이다.키루르크 (대화) 17:38, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]

토마스.W(토크 · 기여) 일리르페디아는 새로운 사용자로, 내가 가이드라인으로 해석한 것에 적합하다고 생각하여 조언했다(WP:TAKO)가 적합하다는 것.나는 키루그 편집장과 과거에 그의 이전 사용자 이름[72] (또한 과거 블록의 역사를 가지고 있다)으로 나와 같은 다른 사람들의 댓글을 삭제하는 광범위한 상호작용을 해왔기 때문에 나는 여기서도 마찬가지라고 생각했다.그래서 내가 그들을 풀어줬던 이유야.레스나리 (대화) 17:51, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 다른 사용자가 Resnjari에게 이것은 괜찮지 않다고 말한 후에도 [73], Resnjari는 두 배로 감소한다[74].키루르크 (대화)17:45, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
과거에 이유 없이 유사한 삭제(다른 예:[75])를 수행하셨습니다.나의 첫 번째 성향은 여기서도 같은 것이 작용하고 있다는 것이었다.레스나리 (대화) 18:03, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
일리르페디아(토크·논문)는 이것이 적절하지 않다는 것을 깨닫고 사용자 페이지에서 텍스트를 삭제한 것으로 보인다.레스나리가 블락 후보인 것 같다.--ymblanter (대화) 18:11, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
임블란터(·출납)여기에 오해가 있다.그것은 블록에 대한 것이 아니고 일리르페디아가 하는 것은 그들의 선택이다.이것은 이제 개인적인 질문이다.나는 논란의 여지가 있는 내용과 인용구가 들어 있는 다른 많은 사용자 페이지들을 보아왔다.어떻게 그들이 그것을 가질 수 있고 다른 편집자는 그들의 페이지를 편집하기 위해 들어가지 않았을까?어떻게 그것이 허용될 수 있을까? 나는 그것이 욕설이나 정말 천박하고 기괴한 것을 가지고 있지 않는 한, 사용자 페이지가 금지되어 있다고 생각했기 때문에 일관성, 규칙 그리고 나에게 걱정거리 때문에 묻는 것이다.왜냐하면 그러한 상황에서 삭제할 수 있는 것이 허용된다면, 내가 제거하고 싶은 불쾌한 내용을 접했을 때 나는 Khirug가 했던 것처럼 할 수 있을까?레스나리 (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 18:17 (UTC)[응답]
다른 편집자의 페이지에서 유사한 텍스트를 볼 경우 ANI에 보고하십시오.나는 보통 이 텍스트들을 지우고 편집자가 복구하면 차단해.-임블란터 (대화) 18:54, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답]
ok Ymblanter (말씀·출납부)이면 된다.그 때 한 가지 다른 점을 분명히 하고 싶은 것이 있는데, 키루그는 ANI에 먼저 보고하지 않고 그 내용을 직접 삭제한 이다 [76], [77]이었다.그가 행정관이 아니라는 것을 고려하면 그것 자체가 문제가 될까, 아니면 그렇지 않을까?레스나리 (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC) 19:01, 응답
아니, 여기엔 아무 문제가 없어.---임블란터 (대화) 19:04, 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그래, 충고 고마워. Imblanter (talk · concernes)베스트.Resnjari (대화) 2017년 9월 21일 (UTC) 19:09 [응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사우스 데리 공화당, 190.52.205.69, 에이라부

7일 전에 누군가가 새로운 기기에서 내 계정에 로그인하려 했다는 통보를 받은 나는 지금 새로운 편집자 Special:베어 IP Special로부터도 확실하게 운용되고 있는 기여/남쪽_Derry_Republican:기여금/190.52.205.69도.그들은 또한 나 자신에게 뒤바뀌었음에도 불구하고 지금 내 토크 페이지[78]에서 편집-워링에 참여했고 @Arjay: 그리고 내 토크 페이지 맨 위에 있는 infobox의 3점에 대한 나의 회전에 다음과 같이 통보했다.내가 댓글을 지우면 복원하지 말아줘. 토론할 때도 마찬가지다. 위키백과를 존중하고 준수하십시오.제거된 주석을 복원하지 마십시오. 만약 내가 그것들을 제거했다면 나는 분명히 토론에 참여하거나 계속하기를 원하지 않는다. 반복적으로 복원하는 것은 공공 기물 파손에 해당한다.

두 가지 가능성이 있다: 명백하게 강한 아일랜드 공화주의 관점을 가진 무작위 편집자는 그들의 견해와 대조되는 나의 견해를 불쾌하게 여긴다; 두 번째로 그리고 가장 가능성이 높은 것은 위키백과의 기존 사용자일 것이다.이 경우에 나는 그것을 사용자 @Eireabu:라고 가정할 수 있는데, 그의 사용자 이름뿐만 아니라 과거에 그들이 나에게 했던 몇몇 코멘트들 역시 아일랜드 공화주의 관점을 가진 사람이라는 것을 암시한다.그들은 내가 추측할 수 있는 유일한 편집자인데, 이번 '얼스터의 적손' 기사에서 나는 이 편집본의 참고 문헌과 참고 문헌을 보면 알 수 있듯이 역사적, 학술적 증거의 순전히 무게로 그들의 견해와 주장을 완전히 무너뜨렸다.실제로 @Canterbury Tail: 완전한 편집 전쟁을 막기 위해 한 달 동안 기사를 차단한 후 나는 나의 편집과 기사의 많은 이슈에 대한 이유와 정당성을 꽤 많이 올렸다.나는 심지어 기사를 내 샌드박스에 복사하여 에이레아부가 보고 논평할 수 있도록 진행 중인 작업의 정기적인 업데이트를 올렸으며, 내가 어떻게 그들의 우려를 고려했는가, 그러나 그들은 한 대답했고 그들은 내가 제시하거나 말한 어떤 것에도 신경쓰지 않았고, 이전처럼 계속 진행하려고 했던 것이 분명했다.그들은 협력할 뚜렷한 의도가 없었다.

I also believe the harrassing [79] end comment to me backs up it is Eireabu: You say: The 'Gaelic' Ulster flag is actually the flag of the Hiberno-Norman Earldom of Ulster, ruled by the de Burgh family? Me say: False. It is the first recorded use, not the origin. The key bones of contention Eireabu seems to have had with my initial edits to the Red Hand article was over the first documented usage of the Red Hand symbol and the source used for it (slates source as POV as well as adding in their own SYN and OR, source as a unreliable "pamphlet" without any supporting evidence.) They also felt the edit "relegated" the Gaelic history of the Red Hand and implied it wasn't a Gaelic symbol. Whilst the IPs comment is factually flawed (the flags origin—not the Red Hand symbol on it—is de Burgh), it strongly looks like a continuation of Eireabu's viewpoint on the matter.

Whether Eireabu is indeed South Derry Republican and the IP is up for debate however both SDR and the IP are harrassing user accounts that should be blocked as they only seem to exist to harrass me. Mabuska (talk) 11:43, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely not!! Nor do I condone such behaviour!! I've better things to do than to get myself involved in such stupid things and I sincerely hope the person detracts from it, I don't have any connections to Derry! Paranoia over myself is a little rash and unfair and an apology is in order. Eireabu (talk) 20:57, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There are grounds for suspicion and I do not apologise for voicing them and I stated that it is up for debate not certifiable fact. You may very well be innocent but these things have only happened since our few interactions over the past couple of months and I can think of no other editor I've interacted with who has a reason to be peeved at me so it is reasonable and quite right to raise the possibility. But as stated it is not fact, just suspicion and suspicion especially raised by the coincidence pointed out above. Anyways the only action I've directly asked for is against SDR and the IP.
Also anyone can make up a username stating anything whether it is true or not, indeed as I enforce the WP:IMOS agreement on the county name it could easily be an intentional choice by someone to have a dig as you cannot enforce IMOS on a username. Mabuska(talk) 21:18, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well as I have said on my user page, I hope they stop and I am with you in action against whomever it is. You have made an accusation, for which is wrong, I've better things to be doing than such nonsense!Eireabu (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And as I have done at your user page, I thank you for your condemnation. Yet if there is reasonable suspicion it and the reason why must be mentioned whether it is misplaced or not I hope you understand. Mabuska(talk) 23:25, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I Don't necessarily understand in fairness, it's a big world out there with multiple people with viewpoints, similiar or not. I haven't even noticed the user till you raised it, linking my own username in the process above. Even the quoted point you made above from this user regarding the Ulster flag wasn't something I agree with!! It was always my assumption the flag was largely De Burgo in design and origin, with an O'Neill crest at the centre. Anyway no point crying over spilled milk and alas we must move on! Here's to contentious free contributions and editing here on in. You might have gathered I'm slow with any sort of contributions and quite the amateur, that will never change unfortunately ;) Eireabu (talk) 16:06, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mabuska, it wouldn't have hurt to have explained to South Derry Republican on their page, before you took them to ANI, that they're not supposed to restore removed comments. New users — which we're supposed to start by assuming they are — don't know that, and most likely don't read edit summaries. Also, this is not the place to voice your suspicions of Eireabu. The way to do that is firstly to ask them, and secondly, if you think you have good evidence, to open an SPI. I agree it's hard to believe South Derry Republican is a bona fide new user — see them using the <blockquote> template a couple of hours after the account was created[80], though not using it very well — but it doesn't by any means have to be Eireabu. I've warned South Derry Republican about harassing you on your page, and about editing logged out. Bishonen talk 16:05, 18 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]
Considering they hit the revert button with their last edit it is pretty clear they seen my prior edit summary so it is either a lack of competence or lack of willingness to a) read it or b) follow it. Seeing as I clearly stated it was up for debate as to whether it was Eireabu or not, it should be apparent why I didn't file a SPI, and I would be highly surprised if an editor would admit to using a sock to harrass another editor if asked considering the ramifications. Regardless a warning will have to do, thank you. Mabuska (talk) 17:45, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Carmaker1 Disruptive edits

Carmaker1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I've noticed Carmaker1 engages in disruptive editing and hasn't been blocked, this is likely because most auto pages have information added primarily by single purpose editors who are easily pushed around. He is changing around the years on the Honda J engine (edit talk history links watch logs) then when I restored them to the original he refers to this as vandalism. He has repeatedly accused me of being a sock of 212.36.194.45 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) another editor who attempted to engage Carmaker1 in civil discussion but was instead insulted and had his edit reverted. Honda J engine talk page. His edit history features numerous insults and threats of admin intervention. For a recent instance [81], DanaWright (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) edited the page on a single occasion but is threatened anyways.

Now he resorts to canvassing for support. He finds the other active auto editor (OSX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) appears to have retired from editing) who changes and reverts year alterations and adds underground messages to inform other editors not to bother changing them since otherwise he'll revert them.[82]. Since most of the auto pages are edited in tiny pieces by single purpose editors this is easily accomplished. By tag teaming the article, Carmaker1 (before it was with OSX) expects to change the page the suit his demands. Even more odd since the Honda J engine is built in Alabama for the North American market and rarely found in exported vehicles. Vortex833 (talk) 12:06, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I should point out that the dispute between Vortex833@ and Carmaker1@ started as a difference between using model years (for the American market) and calendar years (for the rest of the world). Unfortunately, Carmaker1 went in with all guns blazing, insulted Vortex833 and didn't explain his position properly, hence making Vortex833 into a mortal enemy. I'm trying to bring both sides to some form of understanding at Talk:Honda J engine. Stepho talk 13:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:Stepho-wrs - Thank you. That is an accurate account, in my opinion. There was a request filed at the dispute resolution noticeboard, but I had to close it for various reasons, including inadequate prior discussion and personal attacks. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure calendar years for the rest of the world even exists? Could be original research and endless reverted edits, noticed they refer to the new Camry as 2018 Camry over in Australia as well. [83], [84], [85], [86], [87]
This looks like a content related dispute, and so long as no edit warring occurs, I can leave the article be and encourage you two to resolve your disputes peacefully and citing policy to support your arguments. The concerns I do wish to ask about is the incivility. Vortex833 - Can you provide me with specific diffs that point out the incivility you're talking about here? ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 04:08, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Here Carmaker1 uses derogatory terminology to insult another editor calling him a dunce. The other editor after being insulted didn't respond. [88] Vortex833 (talk) 10:34, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Stepho's comment on the talk page seems to be helpful, and based on your response you seem to understand and agree with the reasonable notion that presenting "American model years" (which don't necessarily correspond with actual years) without an annotation of some sort, can be confusing for readers. Therefore you're essentially conceding that your edits were in the wrong. I see no reason to action a user under these circumstances. Swarm 05:10, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I understood this board was for informing admins of patterns of disruptive edits and was not used to resolve content disputes?Vortex833 (talk) 10:59, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I accepted adding an MY designation for clarification purposes though I don't see it as necessary or useful. On the page no other editors have changed or shown any sort of confusion in all this time, it's just an invented problem.Vortex833 (talk) 11:11, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Without an MY designation the Honda J engine would be highly confusing to its visitors, that's why the years have been added in the existing manner up until Carmaker1 and only Carmaker1 decided to invent an issue to solve and change all the years.Vortex833 (talk) 11:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm beginning to realize this "dispute" amounts to pushing original research on automotive pages with an agenda. If sourced material isn't referring to these "calendar dates" then neither should the auto pages. Googling Honda J30A [89] returns dates in the original format not the one Carmaker1 is pushing. Did the same for Honda J35 [90] and it's the same. Vortex833 (talk) 11:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That is equivalent to saying that if the source material was written in Japanese then the article must be written in Japanese. CarMaker1 was quite rightly attempting to harmonise the J engine article with the other international engine articles, which the vast majority are in calendar years (although I recognise that whether the article is an American article or an international article is still under discussion). However, he didn't make it clear that he was changing to calendar years (just as the original didn't make it clear it was using model years) and he then responded to reverts in an uncivil manor. His goal was good, but his methods were rough. Be careful to separate the two. Stepho talk 22:36, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

BG9M0THH8H3

Sock blocked; nothing else to do here. (non-admin closure)MRD2014 TalkEditsHelp! 16:41, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

There is no need to provide diffs, all of this editor's contributions have already been reverted by other editors, except those at Ex nihilo (should probably also be reverted per WP:DENY, SPI case at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Wittgenstein123) and those where I was reverted at Yahweh and its talk page. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 10:24, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've blocked the account indefinitely for soapboxing/abuse. Re, the SPI, it looks like a clear WP:DUCK to me as well. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 11:24, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 12:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard#USS John S. McCain (DDG-56)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It is apparent (to me) that the dispute resolution process has broken down. The moderator has recused themself after representations from the originating editor. I am not reporting misconduct. Rather, I am requesting oversight. I perceive that this oversight may take the form of a direction as to how to proceed from this point. On the otherhand, it may take the form of a decision in this matter. To this extent, I note that the matter has been discussed fully and that it has been generally notified (as indicated in the subject thread). I am notifying the originating editor specifically and posting a notification of this on the Dispute resolution noticeboard. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As suggested there, I think a proper, neutrally worded RfC at the article talk page is going to be your best option if you can't find consensus. I doubt you'll get an admin here to "rule" on a content dispute or intervene at DR. -- Begoon 11:25, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou for your response. I have bought this here for a number of reasons. Firstly, it is fairly clear that, unless another moderator takes the reins (unlikely?) the DR process has failed. Secondly, the processes to date have closely followed the RfC process. There has been (IMHO) sufficient "debate" of the issues to establish a consensus but this requires a "close", since the opposing positions (one versus several) decline to acknowledge an "outcome" even though the consensus position has been identified by those offering a third opinion and the DR moderator. In making these comments, I do not per-judge any independent arbitration. I would observe that to protract this matter more than necessary would be disruptive. The originating editor at DR has already unambiguously indicated that they will not be bound by any decision at DR. Cinderella157 (talk) 12:37, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think you can request a formal close of any discussion at WP:ANRFC. I don't think it has to be an RfC for that: "The Requests for closure noticeboard is for posting requests to have an uninvolved editor assess, summarize, and formally close a discussion on Wikipedia. Formal closure by an uninvolved editor or administrator should be requested where consensus remains unclear, where the issue is a contentious one...". I'm not sure how long that might take. Or, if you're confident you already have consensus, and the DR is abandoned, you could just go ahead and implement it, consensus does not mean unanimity. I know you know that, but it does bear repeating. -- Begoon 13:14, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
With thanks. Cinderella157 (talk) 13:29, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Doing this. Cinderella157 (talk) 13:58, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I just saw what you did - I meant asking at ANRFC for the article talkpage discussion to be closed, since I looked there and that seemed to be what you were saying needed a close when you said "the processes to date have closely followed the RfC process" - the heading you've used looks like you're asking for ANRFC to close the DR, and I don't think that's going to work... Sorry if I misunderstood/misled you. -- Begoon 14:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • While, I am currently evaluating the DRN disc. itself, as a gen. reminder, please don't post any requests about DRN cases to ANRFC.While technically, every editor in good-standing could be a DRN volunteer, approaches at DRN vary widely from RFCs etc. and techniques of closing disc. or moderation varies. And I have not seen any DRN regular sans me frequent ANRFC either.Regards:)Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 14:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah - crossed wires, probably my fault. Sorry. -- Begoon 14:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Begoon:-Yeah! Prob. he got stuck in the little ambiguous phrasing of your 2nd comment and understood it the wrong way! After all, errors can be fairly expected for people who are prob. not so involved/accustomed with the exact intricacies of our abundance of processes.Regards:)Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 15:13, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I apologise for my error in that I saw the DR as a continuation of the thread at the ship's talk page. Discussion is continuing at Talk:USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) so this has defaulted to your intention in any case. Cinderella157 (talk) 00:51, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No need for you to apologise, I should be the only one doing that. My suggestion was ambiguous and I should have phrased it far more carefully. Sorry again. -- Begoon 01:15, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

I tried to moderate this dispute, but it appears that there was rough consensus, to which User:Wingwraith took exception, and first wanted me to express an opinion, which I eventually did (reluctantly), and then wanted a detailed refutation from me. At this point, I withdrew from moderation. I am still willing to assist in the formulation of an RFC. I am requesting administrative attention. I will note that any request at WP:AN or WP:ANI is inconsistent with the way DRN works. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • So, Wingwraith made an edit that was reverted as disputed, and unanimously rejected by the local consensus on the talk page. They then requested mediation, and when the mediator didn't agree with them, WW attacked him. Wow. @Wingwraith: this really isn't looking good for you and I'd be strongly inclined to block you if you engage in any further edit warring. Your proposed edit has been rejected. That's it. That's the reality. Beyond that, no one cares if you think you're "right". Your options are quite simply as follows: Drop the stick and move on, attempt to override the existing consensus by starting an RfC on the talk page (the consensus of which you must abide by), or continue edit warring and get blocked from this website. It's up to you. However this project is governed by consensus. Not individuals who say they're "right". This is not merely a content dispute. You're refusing to listen to existing consensus, which constitutes disruption. Swarm 05:43, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I will state FTR that I dispute some of the points that you have made. I wasn't attacking Robert McClenon when I asked him to clarify how it is that my objection had the quality of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and at no point did I say or imply that I had a problem with how he handled his role as the DRM; the fact that he was willing to recuse himself and request that another volunteer take over as moderator instead of closing the dispute resolution process outright is I think proof enough of the lack of any hostilities between the two of us. I understand the rules around consensus which is what partially motivated my bringing the dispute to the DRN, and I made the comment about my being right under very specific circumstances which I stood by then and stand by now. Even though an administrator is now involved with the dispute resolution on the talkpage which renders the RfC and "edit warring" actions moot, I'm not a IDHT kind of editor: I've throughout the process consistently come up with proposed edits, arguments and ideas which tried to carve out a middle-of-the-road approach to ending the dispute. That was my position then and that remains my position. Wingwraith (talk) 22:42, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with User:Wingwraith in one detail, and that is that I didn't think that I was attacked, at least not exactly, although I did think that the questioning of my mediation was less than reasonable and less than fair. I would suggest that if Wingwraith doesn't want to be disruptive, they either accept that consensus is against them, or request a wider consensus via a Request for Comments. I would suggest that this thread can then be closed, either with a finding of consensus (minus one) or with agreement to use an RFC. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As indicated above, this discussion is continuing at Talk:USS John S. McCain (DDG-56). I will add that the admin Buckshot06 is overseeing the discussion there. As the originator, I am certainly happy for this to be closed. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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/* WikiProject Trains participants */

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pi.1415926535 and Morphenniel I believe is one of the same person because they have the same edits and most of the time they edit in a hour of each other if I'm wrong I apologise for the inconvenience— Preceding unsigned comment added by P0404 (talkcontribs) P0404 (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Do you have some diffs that can help show us the evidence? --Jayron32 15:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You just might want to duck that WP:BOOMERANG. Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Scott19982 is of interest here. RickinBaltimore (talk) 16:04, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Disruption at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#RfC: Advisory RfC concerning Betacommand

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Fram inserted a lengthy comment into the header of this RfC rather than in the threaded discussion section,[91] with the express motivation that his comment "it should be considered before someone starts on the proposals",[92] thus giving his opinion more visibility than the other opinions in the threaded discussion section. It also fundamentally changed the wording of the RfC after multiple votes had been cast.

When I attempted to move the comment[93], Fram reverted.[94]

I would ask that this disruption of an ongoing RfC be stopped. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:30, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fram's comments do not alter the text of the RFC, but rather comment on it from a clearly distinct section. It isn't the big deal you make it out to be, and should be left alone. You're creating a tempest in a teacup by even bringing this here, there's no need to do anything except either leave it alone, or refute his points in his discussion. --Jayron32 14:33, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No. You are not allowed to insert your comments into the header of an RfC in order to give your comments more weight than the comments of the other editors who commented in the threaded discussion section. Doing that is disruptive. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:37, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"It also fundamentally changed the wording of the RfC after multiple votes had been cast." That's a bit rich coming from the person who "forgot" that Betacommand socked for years after his second ban, even though you linked to the initial sockpuppet investigation with the comment that it came to nothing in your "neutral" RfC opener. Instead of dragging me here, you would do better to ask BetaCommand why he "forgot" to mention his Werieth account to you while you were drafting the RfC. Fram (talk) 14:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would also ask that Fram be reminded to WP:AGF. The reason for the "fundamental change" he is complaining about is clearly documented at the bottom of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Threaded discussion. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:44, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you didn't know about the Werieth case when you opened this RfC, then you did a very poor job researching Betacommand's history and he didn't feel the need to mention it. In any case, it fundamentally changed the unban RfC from "he did nothing wrong but waited patiently since the ban" to "while being banned, he used a sock to continue the same behaviour for another two years or so", which gives a slightly different impression of the chances that this second ban will have changed anything about his behaviour. Fram (talk) 14:52, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you are making arguments about the topic of the RfC in the wrong place. The correct place is in your !vote or the comments section. This ANI report is about your refactoring the header of an ongoing RfC. That's disruptive even if you are right. Stop doing it, please. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:03, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If that account was a sock, and there is no proof, it appears it was a productive contributor for several years with minimal problems. That would suggest we should let him back. Legacypac (talk) 14:49, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"No proof"? Have you read the actual discussion? And that account was blocked for their own actions as well. Fram (talk) 14:52, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am not going to comment on the underlying RfC here (AN does not rule on such things) other to say that both Fram and Legacypac are free to make any argument they choose in their !votes or in the threaded discussion section. I want to focus on the disruptive behavior of Fram refactoring an RfC after multiple votes have been cast. Again I ask that this ongoing disruption be stopped. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • And bringing it here is somehow... less disruptive? It also fundamentally changed the wording of the RfC after multiple votes had been cast. - No, but, this did. I have to agree with Fram. That RfC should be closed or restarted. The RfC failed to present all the relevant evidence and can only be considered tainted. Besides that, no Fram did not alter the wording of the RfC. He created a subsection to the RfC asking that it be closed as biased and tainted. Yes of course it should be considered before !voting on the propsals, that's the whole point. Adding in that I am aware that this change was noted at the bottom of the threaded discussion where it is least likely anyone will see it and where anybody who has already !voted is unlikely to check. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion - would it satisfy everyone here if Fram's suggestion to close the RfC as out of order were relabelled "proposal 0" in the RfC, so that other editors can comment logically? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd be fine with anything to end the juvenile pettiness this thread started. --Jayron32 15:10, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Move on with Ivanvector's solution--As the initial editor who tried transposing the section; only to be reverted, my view is that there is little point in continuing this ssectin for long.While the desired outcome could have benn easily undertaken in a better manner by Fram, it's not disruptive.Winged Blades Godric 15:12, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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repeated web hosting, and now a legal threat

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Strawhatmeplease was speedied in 2015 as a U5. The page was immediately recreated with no content except a comment about wikistalkers [95]. Not a big deal, but the last two years have seen nothing from the user but more web hosting on that page, with it being blanked by the user every 8 months or so. Versions before blanking were [96], [97] and [98]. The last blanking was undone by the user twice before finally being replaced by a legal threat in the edit summary and on the page [99]. There have been no postings to the user's talk page since the 2015 speedy notice by user:Skamecrazy123 and comment by user:JohnCD , so it seems like the user is trolling for a response. Here it is. The user should be blocked while the legal threat is outstanding, and this looks like a case of WP:NOTHERE as well. Meters (talk) 20:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not really sure it was a legal threat, but in their entire history of editing at Wikipedia, with the exception of the one edit to Skamecrazy123's talk page, all their edits were their talk page. That's absolutely WP:NOTHERE behavior in my book and they have been indeffed. RickinBaltimore (talk) 20:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That was the fastest ANI I've ever seen... beat me to the user notification.Meters (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Repeated reintroduction of copyrighted content at Mont Rose College of Management and Sciences

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Over the last week, MRC123456 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and an IP address which ostensibly represents the same editor have been adding content derived in large part from this page to the page mentioned above. Copyright aside, the content is meant to portray the school in a positive light (thereby violating WP:NPOV) and is written like a press release (WP:NOTNEWS). A few recent diffs in which this content was (re)introduced are provided here: 1 2 3

I and other editors have reached out to the user on their talk page about the various issues involved here, including the copyright violation, WP:NOT, WP:NPOV, and WP:COI. Only one of these editors received a response, once on their own talk page and once on that editor's talk page. There is also an open case at WP:SPI, where it is suggested that this user created their account to continue editing the page after a previous account was blocked for WP:3RR. In the meantime, this user and the IP continue to silently reintroduce the same content. dalahäst (let's talk!) 13:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This was pretty obviously sockpuppetry, the editor's various accounts have been blocked. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WilliamJoshua. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ivanvector: I see you've blocked the IP as well, thanks. Hopefully that'll put an end to this for some time. dalahäst (let's talk!) 04:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Continual changing of referenced Standings in the 2017–18 Ukrainian Second League competition

ANI is not for content disputes. The IPs need to use the talk page to sort out their issues. Plus, article has been semi-protected. (non-admin closure)MRD2014 TalkEditsHelp! 00:22, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

User using IPs 185.26.183.24 and 185.26.183.63 continually changes the standings in 2017–18 Ukrainian Second League Group A by adding a team which has been annulled and omitted from the reference provided by the official source. The user has not returned any reason nor discourse in the talk section of the article. Official source provided does not have the team in the standings. There is ample documentation in the article about the plight of this team. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a content dispute rather than something that needs admin intervention. That being said, you are correct that the official source has completely annulled the results. Page protected for 2 weeks. Fenix down (talk) 10:22, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Administrator Kudpung's speedy deletion closure of an AFD

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This morning I opened an AFD for U. T. Downs. The article was created by now banned editor Billy Hathhorn. The article had also been at AFD before in 2015. Keep was the result. I didn't know of the past AFD but I made a substantial edit[100]- Note I'm unsure if that is the right link because its been deleted- to this article in either 2015 where I removed a bio of a second person in the Downs article. Taking over 10,000 bytes out a article is substantial. Kudpung deleted the article today. Citing it was created by a banned user. The first problem with that- BH wasn't banned at the time he created the article. Second- That at least one substantial edit was done to the article.

Kudpung defended himself at his talk page when another editor voiced concern[101]. I expressed my opinion[102] on the matter too but he referred me to his first reply[103]. His reply[104] back to me in this edit when I told him I'd take it to ANI is also concerning. "Wrong venue. Discuss it properly and politely, and then we can decide if I restore it or if you take it take it to Delrev if you must. Otherwise you will be at ANI for agressive behaviour, arrogance, admin baiting, and disruption of the collaborative spirit."

I think the article should be deleted but a speedy deletion was dead wrong. The AFD should be re-opened....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 00:42, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • I repeat: 'Wrong venue. Discuss it properly and politely, and then we can decide if I restore it or if you take it take it to Delrev if you must. Otherwise you will be at ANI for agressive behaviour, arrogance, admin baiting, and disruption of the collaborative spirit. You have a history of this kind of thing.' And ANI is still the wrong venue. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:46, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]


    • A administrator who threatens an editor with a boomerang for telling him he did something wrong is deeply concerning. WP:G5 says This applies to pages created by banned or blocked users in violation of their ban or block, and that have no substantial edits by others. G5 should not be applied to transcluded templates or to categories that may be useful or suitable for merging.
    • To qualify, the edit or article must have been made while the user was actually banned or blocked. A page created before the ban or block was imposed or after it was lifted will not qualify under this criterion.
  • Your speedy deletion fails G5 on just one grounds but two. Your behavior to me is troubling and that need addressing too....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 00:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Legacypac (talk · contribs) This is the right forum for AFD closed by an administrator in violation of policy. Here for example[105] and BTW the editor who brought it to ANI was also the editor who started the AFD....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, since WilliamJE insists on reopennng this thread after I closed it and refusing to use DRV, it is considered disruptive to request undeletion of a page you are seeking deletion on. Waste of time and effort. Legacypac (talk) 01:17, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't nominate it for speedy deletion. It was Speedied on grounds of G5 which doesn't apply. Have I ever nominated something per G5 or notified an admin of a article(s) created by a banned user. Countless times. Here is just one example[106]....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:39, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looked at your edits and yes you moved text to another article. That does not mean you made substantial contributions to this one.
  • There are keep votes from the sock themself[107]
  • Agree having someone who nominated the article for deletion bring it here because it was delete. Meh
  • This sock was blocked in 2012[108] and the article was created in Jan 2015.

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:21, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A edit removing over 10,000 bytes from an article the size of Downs is not substantial? That's absurd pardon my French. As for moving text somewhere else, I recall doing no such thing. What I removed was a second biography. Please point me to my edit that saw me move 10,000 (or any of it) somewhere else....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 01:39, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting out a block of text is an edit, but not a substantial "contribution" to the page, more like a partial deletion. This whole thing make me wonder. Legacypac (talk) 01:53, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hmmm not me. Ah Billy Hathorn, the gift that keeps on giving. Stubbornly thinking he's doing a good thing. I looked at a bunch of his articles a few weeks ago--the drivel is just mind-boggling, though you have to admire the sheer amount of stuff he can pull from the Weekly Parishioner. It's a walled garden with a big old fence around it, and at some point a team of highly trained commando editors needs to go in and clear that shit out to leave something we might call encyclopedic. Drmies (talk) 03:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I said recently, I had a G5 denied because the speedy deletion template itself was ruled as a significant edit. Even if that was a questionable ruling, the point remains that G5 is designed to protect any good edit. Unscintillating (talk) 04:00, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The behavioral aspect of the quote here from Kudpung was overreaction. Hard to figure what is going on, but Kudpung might need a wikibreak; and this speedy was out of process. Unscintillating (talk) 04:00, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wrong venue--Community consensus and approach regarding G5 vary.Take this to WP:DRV.Winged Blades Godric 06:26, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "I think the article should be deleted". It was. So what is the point of this thread - to sling mud? If you want me to put U. T. Downs in your userspace so you can improve it, I'm fine with that, but otherwise I can't see what action you want that will actually improve the encyclopedia. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Listen here you rabble rouser you. We need to open at least two discussions, undelete the article, file the correct forms in triplicate, and redelete the article. I really don't understand how that isn't abundantly clear. GMGtalk 10:44, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to close: This belongs at DRV, and only at DRV. There is no allegation of either serious administrative misconduct or of a pattern of misconduct. At worst, we have a misapplication of a CSD criterion that resulted in an early closure of an AfD. Because an AfD was involved, the proper forum for review is DRV. Were this a straight CSD, not involving AfD, then REFUND might be more appropriate. I see no plausible claim on OP's part that anything Kudpung did was anything more than a mistake, either of the facts at hand or in applying policy. That does not merit an ANI thread. So let's close this thread and get back to work. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 10:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you're wise; Withdraw, if you're not wise; Boomerang - You, William, threatened to take this to AN/I in your first reply to Kudpung on his talk page. This board exists for dealing with behavioural issues that require admin intervention. So your threatening to go to AN/I is implying not only that Kudpung is wrong and has made a mistake, but, that you want preventative action taken for some poor admin behaviour. You were told to discuss politely (i.e. not threatening AN/I) or to take it to DelRev (WP:Deletion review). This is not the board for contested deletions. You are at the wrong venue if you want the deletion overturned. This right now is timesink disruption. Please reassess your own participation here and at Kudpung's talk page. Mr rnddude (talk) 14:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Quick and easy one

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Could someone take a quick look at User:Yihman1's:

  1. BLP violations today at Issa Rae
  2. 5RR at Issa Rae
  3. extreme BLP violations at McNamara fallacy earlier this year (see deleted warnings on his talk page)
  4. History of actual vandalism (see deleted warnings on his talk page)

And put him out of our misery? Will notify in a sec. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:18, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The guy appears to be on a crusade of some sort, and should be put on ice for a good stretch. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:35, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nevermind, things were getting worse so I did it myself. Two editors blocked and page protected. Anyone who wants to claim I'm involved is welcome to complain here; I'm pretty comfortable with doing this. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're involved! I'm not seeing the problem though. I'm right on the edge of suggesting a longish block rather than the indef, but you're probably right - it doesn't look like this guy's ever done much productive in two years here. If he seriously wants to come back and contribute, he has CLEANSTART or STANDARDOFFER. GoldenRing (talk) 11:35, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • CLEANSTART?! I don't think so. Among a long list of scummy edits, I'm particularly taken by his referring to a black pastor, murdered by a racist, as "Pickniney" instead of Pinckney. Classy. I'm actually kind of disturbed this person wasn't blocked 9 or 10 months earlier than this. We give horrible people too many chances to become non-horrible. But horrible people never do become non-horrible. Goof-offs very occasionally become non-goof-offs, bull-headed kids occasionally become non-bull-headed young adults, but horrible people never change. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:03, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hoax vandal at Petr Kellner article

I am reporting starting problem at Petr Kellner. In a nutshell vandal using misleading username and various IP addresses is inserting hoaxes to biography of living person. We have same problem at cswiki (see article history) spanning for months resulting in longtime article protection and indef user block. Same problem is just starting here.--Jklamo (talk) 16:22, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up, Jklamo, the user has been blocked for a username violation. I guess it would be worth keeping an eye open should he edit using another account or as an IP. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User Leysure, WP:SPA for spamming

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Leysure (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), while not editing often, seems to have but one purpose: To spam the Oscilloscope article with news of one particular company's product.

Not shown in its contributions is Draft:Micsig, which was speedy deleted as unambiguous advertising.

Please consider a block. Jeh (talk) 09:56, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

{{uw-spamblock}} Nyttend (talk) 11:35, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Legal Threat from Wydelabs Law board Govt. of India

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User Wydelabs - claiming to be "Wydelabs Law board Govt. of India" - has left the following Legal threat on my talk page.

As explained at Alliance University#Family feud there is a long running family feud as to who is running the university, which has two people claiming to be Chancellor (Sudhir G. Angur and Madhukar G. Angur) and two web-sites, (alliance.edu.in and allianceuniversity.edu.in) both of which are trying to recruit students.

User Wydelabs represents the alliance.edu.in faction with Sudhir G. Angur as Chancellor.
It appears that the feud is still ongoing, as on 18 September an IP reverted the article to the allianceuniversity.edu.in website with Madhukar G. Angur as the chancellor, as seen here
As there are several claims and counter-claims, I have explained that there is a feud, give both websites and both claimants, and directed people to this explanation in the infobox, removing partisan claims.

Could I ask that, in addition to sanctions against Wydelabs, the page is reverted to a neutral stance, and given, say, extended-confirmed protection. - Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 12:23, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Clear legal threat, so blocked as such. I'm not inclined to get involved in the above content dispute -- There'sNoTime (to explain) 12:30, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to be careful there Arjayay, you don't want to get yourself deformed ;-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? someone threatened to "derange" me about 5 years ago - perhaps they succeeded? - Arjayay (talk) 13:29, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't loose your identity! That's private info. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:43, 22 September 2017 (UTC) [reply]
Could be worse. You could have a lawsuit lunched against you. EEng 21:54, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Complaints by User:IranianNationalist

User:Mhhossein

Hi there, this is a censorship attempt by Mhhossein in the talk page.

  • Special:Diff/801105236 (Talk:2017 Tehran attacks)
  • Also when I pinged a Wiki Fa admin to be a 3rd opinion in the talk page (as someone is familiar with Farsi language) Special:Diff/801101452 Mhhossein accused me to be friend with the admin User:Sharaky.
  • Simultaneously with 3RR in the article history
  • When I reminded the user to avoid such edits Special:Diff/801109515/801117300 this user started to accuse me to WP:PA and threatening to WP:ANI in my talk page frequently to WP:RUNAWAY itself means PA.

--IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 07:58, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why would someone have to familiar with Farsi language to express a third opinion on an article in English Wikipedia. Also, your having pinged them here invalidates the entire point of WP:3O, which is to get an opinion by a neutral uninvolved third party, not a person chosen by one of the two parties in the dispute. If your Farsi admin has expressed a view, it has literally no values as a 3O "tiebreaker".
Furthermore, with an account name like "IranianNationalist", you should expect other editors to be suspicion that your editing does not adhere to WP:NPOV, since you have expressed your bias right up front. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:13, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Because the sources are in Farsi language such as VOA PNN or BBC Persian --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:27, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your first diff shows Mhhossein linking to an article version to replace the duplication of that text on the talk page. I see nothing wrong with that. In your second diff you accuse Mhhosein of censorship, when nothing was censored, a link was substituted for text, and of being uncivil when he questioned why you pinged an editor with 11 edits on en.wiki for an opinion. I'd have done the same, as it seems to me to be an obvious case of WP:CANVASSING, in spirit if not otherwise. Then, it was not Mhhosein who accused you of a WP:PA with your repeated claims of censorship, but another editor altogether, User:Pahlevun. Mhhosein then came to your talk page to warn you that the article was under 1RR, and you again claimed that censorship was taking place, and (I guess) was a justification for breaking 1RR. Mhhosein then warned you that if you kept accusing them of censorship, he would file a report here, which he has a right to do, and which you have now done (so how can you chastise him for warning you that he might do it?) - and you didn't notify him that you opened this, as you are required to do.
I have no idea what you mean regarding WP:RUNAWAY.
In all, nothing in this complaint seems justified, unless a BOOMERANG is worthwhile. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:29, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Beyond My Ken: Also I have question, when the controversial article is about a Persian subject, why do you ask me to avoid pinging a user familiar with Persian language? (Or I say better why do you accuse me to ping a partial user?! the user is a WikiFa admin(at least must be more impartial if you don't know him)) --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:34, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You clearly don't get that if you're in a dispute with another editor, your calling in someone you know can;t be considered to be an impartial third opinion. Don't ping me again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"your calling in someone you know can;t be considered to be an impartial third opinion" Had I claimed such a thing? But it is weird when you think the "someone have to familiar with Farsi language" all have to be far away of neutrality!!! --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:46, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're misconstruing the meaning of BMK's comment. The issue is not that you pinged a .fa wiki editor, it's that you pinged an editor at all. Doesn't matter whether they are a .en, .fr or .fa editor, what matters is that the 3O was handpicked by you. That is not how 3O's work. A 3O is where you ask for a completely uninvolved editor with whom you have no relations to chime in with their thoughts to try and resolve the dispute. By their very nature you don't ask a specific person for a 3O. Mr rnddude (talk) 10:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mr rnddude, can you please and provide some evidences to approve the accusation of any relation between me and Sharaky?
@Sharaky:, Hi there, plz come here and defend yourself :D
@Mr rnddude, Ask yourself when I pinged different WikiFa admins such as Darafsh and Huji in different subjects Why do you (or any other one) claim any relation between me and Sharaky? I even had no vote in any RfC for admin or any other privilege grant... How can I have any relation with any Wiki admins? I'm a slow contributer having less contributions from 2014 (only 94 new Fa articles many of them are tiny articles) --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 13:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
IranianNationalist did not notify Mhhosein of this complaint. I have done so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh... your ping was your relation to the admin. You have already admitted to pinging the admin in your OP. I am making no claim about what kind of relations you have with any .fa admin. Either your English reading comprehension is too limited, or, you're not reading. I'll try this again with as blunt an instrument as possible. When you attempt a 3O, you go to WP:3O and leave a dated, but unsigned, comment there. That way you improve the chances of getting a completely neutral third opinion. When you ping an editor to the discussion, you make the 3O moot as it is presumed you chose that specific person for a reason. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also I add : I in different subjects I had pinged different Wiki fa admins such as Darafsh and another admin (I have forgot hist name) for the Farsi-relative articles also experienced non-admin users such as Wikimostafa. But they were busy or not willing to participate in English or they had my gift from other discussions in WikiFa (to avoid conflict of interest. it is rational). @Beyond My Ken So I recommend you have a good view about people talking Persian. Thank you :) --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 09:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, since you don't seem to be understanding what Beyond My Ken is saying, let's try it a different way. Specifically pinging another editor to a discussion, where you are in dispute with another editor, and you expect that the editor you pinged will side with your argument, is a blatant violation of WP:CANVASS. If you had some content discussion in other articles, but were not in a dispute with another editor, and had pinged another editor for wider discussion then that would not be a problem. Comparing the two situations is a red herring. It is irrelevant s to what languages are being spoken. The same could be applied to disruption caused by editors with a heavily Eastern European/East Asian/Balkan/African/South East Asian/Conservative/Liberal/Theist/Atheist/etc, etc bias. It is not restricted to any single language nor nationality. Blackmane (talk) 23:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism, User:Pahlevun

Having 3RR in the Great Mosque of Kufa and multiple discussions and many other reliable sources added to the article the user Pahlevun doesn't accept (Special:Diff/801055508/801262639) even other user edits such as User:Slatersteven's previous edit here: Special:Diff/801054968/801055508
Also 3RR

And relative consensus discussions :

Also as a Note : When the article must be merged it was nominated for deletion by this user (I add : all sources about the subject are official or high ranked clerical sources) :

--IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:26, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IranianNationalist did not notify Pahlevun abouut this complaint. I have done so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:34, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A related subject: IranianNationalist's signature says "IsNotNationalist, thus contradicting the implicit statement made by the account name itself. Is this a legitimate use of a nickname in a sig? It seems deceptive to me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:41, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Beyond My Ken (no pinging) : Are you trying WP:RUNAWAY ? --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:49, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Beyond My Ken However your criticism of my signature is a WP:RUNAWAY and we should avoid making the discussion busy, but I have to reply to your criticism. I changed my signature to avoid probable prejudices about being a zealot patriot or nationalist like Hitler... DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT? --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 08:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My edit on Great Mosque of Kufa was made after lengthy discussion (on multiple pages) about your arguing the toss that it was called the dragon gate. In fact you accused me of bias for supporting Pahlevun's claim that your sources were questionable.Slatersteven (talk) 10:00, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See [109].Slatersteven (talk) 09:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can't see how three reverts in 72 hours could be a 3RR violation. This is not the first time IranianNationalist falsely files for 3RR violation against me (See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive350#User:Pahlevun reported by User:IranianNationalist (Result: nothing)). Moreover, There is now a consensus shaped at RSN to not include the content I removed in those diffs (See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Primary sources at Great Mosque of Kufa). Pahlevun (talk) 12:05, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can be deemed to be edit warring even if you do not breach 3RR in a given 24 hour period if (in the eyes of admins) your edits are trying to game the system (such as making 3 edits in 24 hours and then a fourth an hour later).Slatersteven (talk) 12:09, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So how did Notirainainnatioinalist do
[110] (same day as Pahlevun's first revert)
[111]
[112]

Note they both reverted times on the 13th

So if Pahlevun was edit warring so was Iranian nationalist, based upon Iranian nationalist's criteria.Slatersteven (talk) 12:17, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Precipitating disc
Details of content-dispute et al thrown about.Nothing productive seems to be precipitating out of this disc.Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 16:51, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Slatersteven AFAIK Pahlevun was (and is) insisting on the official clerical Shiite websites to be not reliable to have their claims they provided (whether Serpent or Dragon) AND I NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH SERPENT or merging the Dragon gate to the main article Great Mosque of Kufa so when Pahlevun removes there are many differences between removing a a Serpent Hadith or a Dragon Hadith. I never tried to show the Hadith to be happened in reality (Can someone imagine Masih ad-Dajjal in reality?! :D But the name of the Serpent Door historically is based on this Hadith whether Serpent or Dragon) AND EVERYONE must avoid editing wiki based on his beliefs means if Pahlevun doesn't believe in the Hadith it doesn't mean to remove the Hadith as the HISTORICAL BACKGROUND OF THE DOOR. If I accused you Slatersteven to something , sorry it will not be repeated. Good boy with a good manner :)--IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 13:35, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just as you are insisting we must include (which multiple users have disagreed with) a quote from an Haddith (which has multiple versions). You both have (by your definition) edit warred over this.Slatersteven (talk) 13:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven: Let's call daddy :D @Jimbo Wales: Hi, if you had different reliable secondary sources (Official sources) about Maya civilization calling a historic sacred location as a weird name due to a myth story do you let the mythical story to be removed because it is far away of the reality? @Slatersteven, wrong Hadith or true Hadith there is no difference all versions have a common thing about A CRAWLER(Dragon or Serpent) get inside the Kufa mosque and talked with Ali --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 14:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven: User:Pahlevun is trying an original research because I provided many official and high ranked clerical Shiite sources but Pahlevun says the Hadith is unreliable... why? Does he have any source for what he is claiming? @Pahlevun: If you have any source use it in the article and claim the Hadith is not true. Let the reader to decide not us. --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 15:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Emir of Wikipedia: You reverted again and asked Why? due to this reason in this my last 2 comments above --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 15:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have already responded to your "Vandalism" accusation. Note that no one is here for the content dispute. Pahlevun (talk) 15:09, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did he say the HAddith was unreliable, or that the sources you were using for the text of it were?Slatersteven (talk)
@Slatersteven:YESSSS and a couple of times :) :
  • First time in the Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dragon_gate (Special:PermanentLink/800263755) says :
    "The article is based on Bihar al-Anwar, a WP:PRIMARY that contains probably millions of hadith" --Pahlevun
  • and again here Special:Diff/800483399/800489013 says:
    "@IranianNationalist: This is very interesting that when you wrote یه کم بخندیم :D به این منابع معتبر, you have confessed that the source is not reliable. Wikipedia is not your laughingstock. Pahlevun (talk)"
Clearly Pahlevun source is my summary in Wiki Farsi article : fa:در اژدها which the clerical wiki users (and also Pahlevun) don't have any problem with it but for them the important subject is to remove the Hadith from an international view
But my sources had nothing to do with Bihar_al-Anwar :
--IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 15:44, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't contribute to Persian Wikipedia, by the way. Pahlevun (talk) 15:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ouch!! :D So you check WikiFa article histories to start edit wars in WikiEn to refresh your mood?! In WikiFa you can't claim anything because all users can read the reliable Farsi language sources I provided above and they know I'm right :) --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 16:00, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Also here Special:Diff/800475224/800475867 Pahlevun says "Misuse of an unreliable WP:PRIMARY source. Get it back when you have a reliable secondary source." @Pahlevun, How do you conclude the above official clerical sources (masjed-alkufa.net) to be PRIMARY? @Slatersteven DON'T YOU have any reply now? --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 15:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to discuss a content dispute case here. Pahlevun (talk) 15:59, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Pahlevun WP:RUNAWAY ? --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 16:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutly a Wikipedia:Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass. Pahlevun (talk) 16:07, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

About pinging

@Beyond My Ken, you mentioned many different accusations about me, I don't know answer what one :) I didn't ping the users to let the admins check a more brief of what is happening... and to avoid having a war in ANI before an admin check (however thank you for making a long discussion) --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 09:34, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@IranianNationalist:--Beyond My Ken is a highly experienced editor and citing policies like WP:RUNAWAY to counter well-established users in a ad-hominem manner without any minimal basis can be considered as intentional disruption and indulging in such activities along with casting personal attacks is not tolerated.Also, please be adviced that ANI is often witness to boomerang actions.Thank you!Winged Blades Godric 13:11, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not involved in this in any way, just happened to notice that neither of these pings worked, so courtesy ping for Beyond My Ken. Amaury (talk contribs) 13:13, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we close this now with? it is clear both users are POV warriors who are just disrupting the project.Slatersteven (talk) 16:08, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that I was a "POV warrior" nor "disrupting the project". Pahlevun (talk) 21:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Second.And collapsed a part.Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 16:47, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
After looking at this entire situation somewhat more closely in the light of day, I agree that both editors are at fault here. And to clarify my "no pings" statement, I wasn't intending to "runaway" from the discussion, I simply didn't want to be called back to it repeatedly at IranianNationaist's whim. In general, I'm perfectly capable of returning to an ongoing discussion on my own, and do not need to have my pants leg constantly tugged to do so. (The ping by Amaury above, though, was reasonable, and I thank them for it.) There was a halcyon era when Wikipedia didn't have pinging at all, and things worked just fine. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:54, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Boomerang for IranianNationalist

I have to say congratulations to some specific users (cooperating here in different discussions in different wiki pages we have similar users having similar opinions and the common thing was me :D should I pride to be such a lovely user for this specific users?) they are continuously in the same front to protect Pahlevun and Mhhossein anyway (You can see them in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dragon gate and all relative discussions up to now including the relative discussion on the Reliable sources noticeboard). You can see them in any location I had an Edit for example Slatersteven in the https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sina_Dehghan&action=history and it is not a Wikipedia:Hound but previously there were some similar discussions in WikiFa people (users) calling them as a system of campaigning. Yeah continue to support each other (but it is wonderful when we have some permanent users in different discussions supporting each other). AND THE MAIN SUBJECT WOULD BE FORGOTTEN about some reliable official sources have been censored --IsNotNationalist (Welcome) 19:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A very nice combination of WP:Casting aspersions, WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and WP:POV. You really should be blocked for this comment alone. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:38, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So "they" go to every page you edit?Slatersteven (talk) 07:27, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated bad faith and nationalism-based commentary about contributors

Bishonen warned PAKHIGHWAY about assuming bad faith and alleging nationalist agendas etc. A little over an hour later, PAKHIGHWAY did it again. This has been going on for months now, eg: in August and July. Their targets seem to be random and, while I imagine Bish is aware of the latest example, I suspect PAKHIGHWAY might claim them to be involved, so perhaps it would be better if someone else who has had absolutely no previous conversation with PAKHIGHWAY does whatever needs doing, which in my opinion is a block. - Sitush (talk) 19:13, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Involved? I'm not involved, , Sitush, and it makes no difference what they might or might not claim in that regard. Warning somebody in my quality as admin is the last thing that would make me involved. I don't think their replies to my post are the best place to plant my foot, though. IMO it's not quite time for a block yet. Bishonentalk 19:31, 20 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • I know re: uninvolved, Bish, but I also know how little PAKHIGHWAY cares about such policies and how quickly they make erroneous connections between contributors. - Sitush (talk) 19:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • BTW, I ought to have notified you of my original post here. Sorry, I forgot on this occasion. - Sitush (talk) 19:59, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blocked 24 hours. --John (talk) 19:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • And now they're coming up with the same nationalist tripe and unfounded allegations of some sort of conspiracy by Indians etc in their unblock request. - Sitush (talk) 19:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • And they dtill don't get it! They've even accused me of being Indian, which is laughable. - Sitush (talk) 08:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've extended the block to indefinite based on their talk page comments. --John (talk) 11:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Asking for a mediation

Hi, i added sources (Encyclopedia.com and Imamreza.com) in the article about ibn al-Haytham stating he was a Persian or Arab scholar and user Thomas W removed them saying i made disruptive edits whereas i previously discussed that issue on the talk page days before making the change... I would like to know if at least one of these source is reliable :

http://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/abu-ali-al-hasan-ibn-al-hasan-ibn-al-haytham

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mk_CBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=ibn+al+haytham+persian+polymath&source=bl&ots=OyjAaWfKmC&sig=ZQASTu8Sq3m_tQ6oVrT85ruYinM&hl=fr&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=ibn%20al%20haytham%20persian%20polymath&f=false

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.225.246.222 (talk) 09:56, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • See User talk:89.225.246.222. The editor was warned by me (a level-2) for disruptive editing for repeatedly pushing a theory about Ibn al-Haytham being Persian, using decidedly non-RS sources (while there are plenty of RS sources supporting he was an Arab), in spite of being reverted by other editors, and there not existing a consensus in favour of their changes on the talk page of the article. Editing that has been going on for a very long time, see page history of article (probably by more than one individual though, so I'm not blaiming it all on this particular one...), but is a content dispute that does not belong here. - Tom Thomas.W talk 10:31, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Encyclopedia.com — I don't know. They mention a book published by major reference publisher Cengage Learning, Science and Its Times: Understanding the Social Significance of Scientific Discovery, so I was wondering if they copied that article's sketch of al-Haytham, but a quick Google search of this book is not promising: some of the phrases from the encyclopedia.com article appear there, but others don't, and the ones that do appear are scattered all over the place, so I'm inclined to believe that this is not a Cengage Gale composition. Since we don't know where this came from, we can't consider it reliable. The other one is a book from Springer Science+Business Media, another major academic publisher, so it should be considered reliable, and its author, Harry Varvoglis, is a professor of physics at one of Greece's top universities, Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. Nyttend (talk) 11:41, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nyttend: The book is a new source they've found, not a source they've provided in their edits, the only sources they have provided before filing this report were encyclopedia.com and imamreza.net. And even if the new book, which I haven't seen before, is a reliable source they'll need a consensus supporting them on the talk page of the article, before changing what the article says, since multiple other editors have opposed the changes, and have done so many times... - Tom Thomas.W talk 11:55, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:ДжингибиЩеГоЯдеПодВода

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

ДжингибиЩеГоЯдеПодВода (talk · contribs · count) is a clear attack account: username and edit summaries ("Removed terrorism of the Macedonian Pomp Jingib") are attacks on User:Jingiby (Джингиби in Bulgarian tralnsiteration), edit warring in a number of articles with pointless edits such as this. Clearly a disruption-only account. Please block indefinitely. Constantine 17:49, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is sock from blocked User:PavelStaykov. The name he has registred now is a personal attack against me.Jingiby (talk) 18:01, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Accusation of bludgeoning. Article Plimpton 322

I have been accused of bludgeoning by David Eppstein on this page and as per advice raise a notice here. There is a dispute on this page. Recently an article about the subject of the page appeared in a prestigious academic journal to considerable publicity in 'quality' newspapers. Traffic to the page increased greatly. Some long term editors wish to exclude all mention of this article. This appears to be quite against the broad guidelines of wikipedia which says that all mainstream points of view must be represented. Various other editors have stated that the article should be mentioned. I requested comment some days ago but none has been forthcoming. 9and50swans (talk) 06:32, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify for anyone following along: Plimpton 322 is the article being discussed, not a username. (I have no other interest in this discussion beyond pointing that out).Alephb (talk) 07:40, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For clarity I changed the title of this section 9and50swans (talk) 09:24, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have reviewed the article's talk page, and this thread simply constitutes yet more bludgeoning by the OP, who possibly deserves a b... a boo... a boom... I won't say it. EEng 12:19, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A boom lowered on him? --(signed) Inquiring Editor
Maybe a booby prize? --Prize Patrol
Give him the boot? --Just for Kicks
Boom Bang-a-Bang? --Lulu
  • as per advice raise a notice here - Where is this advice? I would be interested to see it, but just from what I see here it looks like bad advice. False accusations of bludgeoning are not actionable and may be shrugged off or resolved by respectful and civil discussion with the accuser. And this page is not for resolution of content disputes; see WP:DR. It's for actionable bad editor behavior. ―Mandruss 18:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing someone somewhere said the classic, "If you want to keep complaining, take it to ANI." Maybe we should have a rule against that, 'cause threads like this one are what it leads to. EEng 19:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, and we can bring people to ANI for violating that rule. ―Mandruss 20:03, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Of course not. We'll have a series of meta-ANIs (ANI2, ANI3, etc.). See also User:EEng#A_rolling_stone_gathers_no_MOS. EEng 20:36, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you think a policy is being transgressed, ask an uninvolved administrator for their opinion.
Without quoting chapter and verse Wikipedia is supposed to report all strands of mainstream opinion, and it is clearly not happening here. Mention of a recent article in a respected academic journal is being suppressed. I am rather surprised that this can happen on wikipedia. If there is no easy remedy I suggest that this brings wikipedia into some disrepute. Whatever the outcome on this I am grateful for the education in how wikipedia works, which I will pass on to others 9and50swans (talk) 20:16, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You really are, as you've been told before, bludgeoning. As far as I can tell you're not gaining an education in how Wikipedia works;; rather, the only thing you seem to be learning is that you're not getting what you want. EEng 20:54, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In case the many article talk threads, RFC, and ANI thread here weren't enough, 9and50swans has now started yet another: see WP:NPOVN#Plimpton 322. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:50, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to note to suggest we keep this open a bit longer as the OP mentioned he'd be traveling a few days, and I anticipate further trouble. EEng 17:06, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Open an SPI: A new form of disruption at an article covered by WP:ARBPIA

Mhhossein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) just opened an SPI against two of the three editors who opposed him at Talk:Ali Khamenei. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Icewhiz. He also planned to open an SPI, against the third editor, me, as explained at Oshwah's talkpage. The WP:ARBPIA is rife with conflict and disruption. I consider this to be, a new form of disruption. I request a speedy close of the SPI and a warning to the initiator about this type of behaviour. The Ali Khamenei (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views) also needs more eyes and a check for POV, but I am not at ANI to pursue editorial comments about that article. Thank you. Dr. K. 17:29, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As background - this began by a series of edits by Mhhossein to Ali Khamenei (some may be viewed as perhaps POVish, some were definitely positive), some of which were challeged and during which Mhhossein performed a 1RR vio ([115] + [116] 1st, [117] 2nd) which he did self-revert upon being warned this was the case [118]. He then removes an-indepth Newsweek piece as "It's just an opinion" which was challenged by several editors, following up with a WP:NEWSORG claim [119] and then claiming Human interest story[120], discounting other opinions [121], followed by an attempt to SPI Dr.K. (which failed on technical grounds due to page protection), and then moved on to SPI me (Icewhiz). And this for an in-depth article on the subject in Newsweek. I might not be available on-wiki for the next few days (travelling on vacation, back next Sunday, probably will check in sparsely).Icewhiz (talk) 18:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SPI clerk note: I've declined to "speedy close" the case linked above as I see behaviour worth investigating, which I'm now doing. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:44, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: An admin please close this nonsense and strange report!!! @Dr.K.: Later on, please be careful before accusing others at ANI. --Mhhossein talk 11:51, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: not so fast, nothing I've said here or at the now-closed case should be taken as an endorsement of your action. I saw something entirely unrelated that was worth checking, in my own opinion. More shortly. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So what? it was verified that DarkKing Rayleigh was probably a sock of Delotrooladoo and was blocked. --Mhhosseintalk 17:02, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: So what? it was verified that DarkKing Rayleigh was probably a sock of Delotrooladoo and was blocked. I beg your pardon? And what does that have to do with Icewhiz, an innocent bystander whom you unjustly accused of socking? Is there no recognition, on your part, of the glaring mistakes you made putting this innocent editor through this ordeal? This is disruptive, because it demonstrates that you do not understand the disruption you have caused and you may repeat it in the future. At a minimum, you owe Icewhiz an apology. You owe one to me as well, but I won't hold my breath that you will apologise to me. Dr. K. 00:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: Ok. I see you avoid replying to my request that you apologise to Icewhiz for your error in reporting a good-faith innocent editor to SPI. So, here is the effect of your error: Your creation Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Icewhiz was deleted because: G6: SPI filed in error under an innocent name. So I will ask you for the last time: Will you admit you were in error in filing this SPI using Icewhiz's name and apologise to Icewhiz? Dr. K. 15:37, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Related discussions

This is probably a good indication that this suite of three editors needs to have their contributions more closely examined in relation to WP:NPOV and WP:ARBPIA. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was just thinking the same thing, the same edds on related (by religion) topics.Slatersteven (talk) 20:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Beyond My Ken: Just a moment, which of my edits was wrong? Can you elaborate on this? I can't understand why Dr.K. is so worried about a sockpeppetry being investigated, this is while there's no name of him in the reprot. Both of the cases opened regarding me are nonsense. --Mhhosseintalk 02:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If I had a specific accusation to make, I would have made it, but what I wrote was "this suite of three editors needs to have their contributions more closely examined". No Wikipedian should object to having their edits looked at if there's an indication there might be problems. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein:I can't understand why Dr.K. is so worried about a sockpeppetry being investigated, this is while there's no name of him in the reprot. Please do not misrepresent my words. In fact, I am not worried at all. To prove this point, I quote what you said to Oshwah: I was trying to report Dr.K. at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. Thank you again. --Mhhossein talk 06:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC). Wonderful. This is your chance. We are at ANI. Can you explain to everyone here, better still, can you submit your evidence that led you to want to open an SPI against me? Checkusers, SPI clerks, sockhunter admins are all watching for the big reveal with their fingers at the WP:DUCK-block button. I can't wait. Thanks much. Dr.K. 03:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mhhossein - I echo Dr.K.'s request: I would like to see the exact evidence you had supporting your sock puppetry accusations, please. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 03:53, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I never accused Dr.K.. I've already made enough explanations on why I thought sock-puppetry was happening (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Icewhiz). You see by the admins' comments that I was much right about the report, at least regarding DarkKing Rayleigh. Naturally, Dr.K. falling on the dubious account's side came into mind at the very first step. But later, when I contacted Oshwah, I was leaning toward others and Oshwah knows it well. However, I really wonder why Dr.K. hastily acted against my Sockpuppet investigations which had nothing to do with him in practice. Also, @Oshwah: Had you seen this page before coming to this discussion? I don't think any policy or guideline prohibits me from thinking on the the possibility that a user can be a puppet. FYI, the case of INeverCry who was an admin in Commons (I doubt if he was an admin here, too) and later found to be a Master playing another account whom was admin, too. --Mhhosseintalk 06:17, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mhhossein - Accusing me of having any connection with DarkKing Rayleigh was done without a shred of evidence (which you failed to produce in the report, and here). You did this after a content dispute - in which I would say your actions were questionable (calling a serious article in Newsweek a Human Interest Story?!) - and per your own postings to Oshwah's page - you intended to report Dr.K. on the exact same (lack of) grounds - and moved on to me only following technical difficulties (the SPI page was blocked). I'll note that the timing just after MehrdadFR's block (with whom you've been in contact, and who was making similar off base accusations at AE regarding people who disagreed with him, including me) was also odd. Accusing someone of a serious offense, and sockpuppetry is a serious offense, without any evidence (and in this case - an interaction report limited to some 4-6 pages, and totally different editing patterns (he's editing when I'm asleep!)) - could definitely be construed as quite personal in the sense of Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Whether you were correct or not of any misconduct regarding DarkKing Rayleigh (of which I have no concrete opinion - since I do not know much of this new account - though your original report seems to be shaky) - is completely irrelevant to an accusation linking him to me, or accusing me of acting as a sock puppeteer. Regarding policy - this would seem to be fishing as per WP:SPCU. I don't have much to fear from a checkuser (other than what I see as an attack, and entry of my account name in a log) - though from what I read (and see in some account pages) such checks can also find random connections (e.g. multiple editors editing from the same office /library / lab (which may contain hundreds of people or more) - which could be difficult to disentangle (as opposed to a situation in a house with few people).Icewhiz (talk) 14:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is your first question to Oshwah: A question Dear Oshwah, how are you? I'm here per your kind offer of help. I was trying to open a Sockpuppet investigations subpage for a user but the page was protected while I tried it for anther user and it allowed me. What's wrong? Tnx. --Mhhossein talk 04:59, 19 September 2017 (UTC).
This is the followup comment to Oshwah: I was trying to report Dr.K. at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. Thank you again. --Mhhossein talk 06:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC).
So, I ask you again. Please supply the evidence that led you to want to open an SPI against me to the point that you had to enquire about it with an admin.
However, I really wonder why Dr.K. hastily acted against my Sockpuppet investigations which had nothing to do with him in practice. Wonder no more. Acting to prevent SPI abuse against Icewhiz, an established and good-faith editor, from someone with a demonstrable lack of skills for opening SPIs, and who seriously intended to open a fact-free SPI against me, was the least I could do to minimise disruption for a colleague, the project and myself. As for your motives, you only know for sure, but if I had a guess, I would think that you were desperate to win the content dispute at Talk:Ali Khamenei. Dr. K. 15:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Mhhossein: having reviewed the report in probably a great deal more detail than the others who have commented here, I agree that the situation makes it look like you filed this report frivolously to try to "win" a content dispute by making trouble for your opponents, but there is also the possibility that you don't understand what sockpuppetry is. As an example: sockpuppetry is one user making several accounts to make it look like there is additional support for their side of a dispute. Sockpuppetry is not when several users in good standing who are regular and long-term contributors to a topic area disagree with something you're trying to do. I don't think that your report was entirely in bad faith: a suspicious account did participate in the discussion, but I didn't see any good reason to suspect that that account was being operated by either of the two users you reported (or attempted to). Sockpuppetry is something we look on very poorly, and accusing someone of sockpuppetry without good evidence is often considered a personal attack, and I'll repeat the advisory that this topic area is under discretionary sanctions. If you find yourself in a similar situation again where you have a disagreement you can't resolve on a talk page, a good next step is dispute resolution. Please do not file any more sockpuppetry investigation requests unless you have very good evidence; if you feel the need to file, feel free to ask myself or one of the other SPI clerks to review your case in advance. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Icewhiz: - I've removed as much of a trace of the SPI being filed under your name as I can without obfuscating the actual report; I think it's very clear from what's left that you were accused in error. The entry in the Checkuser log can't be removed, but it is only visible to users with CU access (not a lot of people) and is considered protected private information. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:53, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As it happens, none of us saw any good reason to run a CU on Icewhiz, so his CU log is currently empty. Yunshui 15:45, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ivanvector: It's very interesting to see the you are accusing me of disruption (without hearing my narration of the content dispute) while it was verified that DarkKing Rayleigh was probably a sock of Delotrooladoo and was blocked. It's even more interesting that you, as an SPI clerk, don't know of "good standing who are regular and long-term contributors to [the project]" which found to be committing sock-puppetry. Now my suggestions for you, next time, before doing such basic level preaches see the user's contributions, articles and awards. By the way, please see WP:AGF. --Mhhossein talk 17:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dr.K.:Just stop victim playing and making personal attacks, you have nothing to do with this discussion. --Mhhosseintalk 17:06, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You made two baseless sockpuppeting accusations, and the third that actually existed was identified and deal with by Ivanvector himself. I think you've exhausted your good faith allowance for the time being. It doesn't matter if an editor in good standing had sockpuppeted, you don't go around casting aspersions as to the conduct of other editors with zero connecting evidence, save for that they all appeared on the same page, on the basis of somebody else did it too. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:19, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: stop denying that you requested a sockpuppetry investigation of Dr.K. on Oshwah's talk page. You did, we can all see it. My suggestion above that maybe you don't understand exactly what sockpuppetry is was me assuming good faith. Your response that you reported these two users because some other completely unrelated user operated sockpuppets in the past is explicitly a bad-faith argument: you are casting WP:ASPERSIONS based on no relevant evidence at all, and it's an equally specious argument to call these users sockpuppets because you were improperly accused in another entirely unrelated case. I haven't commented on the content dispute and don't intend to, it is entirely irrelevant to the sockpuppetry investigation, which is concluded. You may interpret this as a warning: further commentary in defense of this sockpuppetry investigation and/or regarding the motivations of users in this thread is very likely to be taken as a personal attack. I'll reply to your question on my talk page shortly. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:47, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ivanvector: It's of not importance whether you believe in what I say. See my comments at Oshwah's talk page. At first I though DR.K. could be a part of the puppetry, later, after Oshwah asked for concrete evidences and looked deeper into the edits, I realized that the two others are much more involved. Regarding "You may interpret...", do as you wish, my sentences are what I said. --Mhhosseintalk 17:55, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: ...later, after Oshwah asked for concrete evidences and looked deeper into the edits, I realized that the two others are much more involved. No problem. I will settle for whatever little involvement in sockpuppetry that you think I had. Can you specify that little bit of socking you think I did? Dr. K. 03:36, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhhossein: No reply here either. Once more, you said that ...the two others are much more involved. That implies that I was "involved" but to a "much lesser degree". Can you describe my small involvement? On the other hand, if you think I had no involvement at all, what prevents you from acknowledging that and apologising to me? Basic intellectual honesty requires that you provide an answer to this simple question Mhhossein. Dr. K. 15:44, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) @Mr rnddude: This is one of the reasons I brought this user at ANI. Mhhossein's inability to admit any fault even for the most obvious of his/her transgressions, while at the same time personally attacking the editors he disagrees with, has manifested itself multiple times at Talk:Ali Khamenei, but without repercussions to himself. However, at ANI, his disruption is under scrutiny by the wider community. That gives me a certain sense of comfort. His refusal to get the point of his disruption clearly manifests itself by his personal comments directed against Ivanvector. By the way, I find Ivanvector's analysis of Mhhossein's actions, consummately professional and even-handed, and I thank him for that. I will not reply to Mhhossein's diatribe directed at me, just above, since it is as transparently fact-free as his botched SPIs. Dr. K. 17:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mhhossein has resorted to trolling on the talkpage of the blocked sock

  • Mhhossein gives trolling reply to my ANI notice on the page of the blocked sock: Thanks for informing him, however he's unfortunately blocked because of "the disruption caused by Mhhossein". --Mhhossein talk 04:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC) I had given the ANI notice to the sock, before there was an SPI about his/her socking. Dr. K. 06:00, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now, Mhhossein has resorted to edit-warring adding back the trolling. Dr. K. 06:30, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also misused rollback reverting my edit. Dr. K. 06:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverted again. Dr. K. 06:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, "This is my right to have this [message]. This message is meant as a sort of response against your accusations". --Mhhosseintalk 06:48, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You go WP:GRAVEDANCING on the talkpage of a blocked sock leaving a trolling message and you expect me to reply to it? Dr.K. 06:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your repetitive accusing me with WP:trolling is deemed as personal attack. Wikipedia is not a battle field. You are wasting the time of every one involved in this topic. Btw, the message was to you, not to the blocked user. --Mhhossein talk 06:57, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
ANI is the place to discuss your disruption. You try to avoid this noticeboard and you attempt trolling messages at the talkpage of a blocked sock. Let's wait for the admins to handle your disruption. Dr. K. 07:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Look, I really don't want to spoil a clean block log over this, but I'm getting tired of seeing new messages here.
@Mhhossein: above, I asked you (warned you, actually) not to comment on this sockpuppetry issue anymore or cast aspersions about editors here. I realize that my wording "in this thread" may be open to interpretation. However, going to the talk page of the blocked sockpuppet to reply to Dr.K.'s administrative note (a note which is required by policy when posting here) with a complaint about this thread is clearly trolling where it's not grave-dancing.
@Dr.K.: I want to assume good faith and you are entitled to ask for an explanation, but 1) Mhhossein had already given one (not a great one, admittedly) and 2) your continued questioning of him here and on their talk page flies directly in the face of my warning to Mhhossein not to comment on the sockpuppetry issue any further. You're not trying to bait them, are you?
To both of you: I'd like to ask you both to drop this back-and-forth and get back to editing articles. There is only going to be something here worth further administrative action if this continues, and I don't see there being anything to gain from such an outcome. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:03, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ivanvector: I replied, as you saw, to his comments as I saw them. Obviously, I did not connect my enquiries to him to your warning about not commenting further on the SPI, because I considered an apology to Icewhiz or to myself to be a constructive step that would indicate this editor's understanding of the error he committed. If your interpretation of the warning to him, includes prohibition of acknowledging any errors he made in the comments on this thread, perhaps you should have made this more clear, because it was not clear to me at all. In that sense, raising a baiting possibility on my part is unfair, because I did not interpret your warning so strictly. In fact, I skimmed through it, and did not read it in depth. Further, if this discussion has become a blocking minefield for good-faith attempts at further resolution, I would suggest you close it. I also find your comment about "getting back to editing articles", to be very unfair and it also indicates that you are not clear about what motivates content creators; such prompts at ANI simply don't cut it as motivation. But I will leave it at that. Dr. K. 21:06, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Content dispute at Avatar (2009 film)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Resolved
Editor given 3RR warning

Granito diaz (talk · contribs) added a Non-NPOV and potentially biased piece of information on the film page, Avatar (2009 film). I have attempted to discuss the issue and provided helpful hints, but user has subsequently ignored it.--Tærkast (Discuss) 18:42, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@TaerkastUA: I saw that the editor has reverted you three times in the last 24 hours, meaning they're at the limit. So I gave him the appropriate warning. I did not revert it myself; what I suggest you do instead is rewrite the material he added in accordance with policy and properly format the source.

If he reverts you after that, then take it to WP:ANEW. Daniel Case (talk) 19:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The material is copied from here and thus is a copyright violation. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 19:52, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Closer examination reveals the user has already received a final warning for copyvio, so I have blocked. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:51, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Help with commas

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can I get help w/a MoS question concerning commas?

Wikipedia's MoS says this about commas: "In geographical references that include multiple levels of subordinate divisions (e.g., city, state/province, country), a comma separates each element and follows the last element unless followed by other punctuation. Dates in month–day–year format require a comma after the day, as well as after the year, unless followed by other punctuation. In both cases, the last element is treated as parenthetical. Incorrect: He set October 1, 2011 as the deadline for Chattanooga, Oklahoma to meet his demands. Correct: He set October 1, 2011, as the deadline for Chattanooga, Oklahoma, to meet his demands."

Concerning the commas in dates in month-day-year formet, using this example from the Father Murphy page, "Father Murphy is an American western drama series that aired on the NBC network from November 3, 1981 to September 18, 1983."

The MoS says a comma is required after the year 1981:  

"Father Murphy is an American western drama series that aired on the NBC network from November 3, 1981, to September 18, 1983."

Chicago, AP, APA & AMA says the same thing. All reputable sources agree - it's not ambiguous at all.

So why was my change reverted? It doesn't seem as if this is an optional comma; MoS says it's required; no exceptions are noted. What gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:35C6:C200:C522:44A:E109:F43F (talkcontribs)

IP is a likely sockpuppet of User:Hoggardhigh and has been reported for investigation. --Ebyabe talk - Attract and Repel ‖ 06:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Request that Rana Jai Singh be deleted

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Resolved
AfD started

I just noticed today that an article named Rana Jai Singh is in wikipedia. The article is here since 2011 and does not even have a single book source or external link. I proposed it for deletion and notified the creator of the page, but I just checked and saw that that the creator(Cao Ren) is inactive since December 2011. As the creator of the article has no arguments(or sources) which signify this article's importance or authenticity, I request the administrators that this article should be deleted immediately as having unsourced articles is against Wikipedia's policy, especially if it is the article of a person.Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 09:23, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Hagoromo's Susanoo:--Immediate deletions, other than under those explicitly covered under speedy criterion does not occur.And this has a credible claim of significance(commanding officer of a royal army at a battle) and has a chance of prob. decent sourcing which is just missing.Also see that WP has no deadline.Thus, I've declined the PROD.Please approach the WP:AFD route.Thank you!Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 10:12, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Its just a claim. It says that he is a commanding office of a royal army at the Siege of Chittor bu th article Siege of Chittorgarh does not have him. Neither do any of the books which include siege of Chittorgarh like Rana 2004, Chandra 2005 or Sarkar 1960. That means that he is in no books. As for claim, anyone can add a claim by editing an unsourced article. And 6 years have passed and no sources have been, given so what chance is left. This article was also out of attention and no one noticed so how could someone improve it? It has rare if not zero links. Even I found it while going through the history of Siege of Chittorgarh in an old revision. As it has no source, only claims, the article is classified for deletion. If it is an article, there should be things told to us, such as what place he ruled or any other fact about him if he is important. e.g It is mentioned in an article(which has its sources) and a number of other books and articles. If not, then it is just a misconception. Even if not speedy deleted, it should be at least nominated for deletion.--Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 10:32, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As pointed out, the way to get this deleted is to go via WP:AFD. I see this has been done. Please make your arguments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rana Jai Singh. --Yamla (talk) 12:59, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

So how do I get a Wikip grammarian to help? 2605:E000:35C6:C200:C522:44A:E109:F43F (talk) 06:48, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

So how do I get a Wikip grammarian to help? 2605:E000:35C6:C200:C522:44A:E109:F43F (talk) 06:48, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Go to WP:Help. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:53, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Block needed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

185.24.12.182 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Please block this user as soon as possible. The user has repeatedly removed a section from an article without consensus. When I reverted them, they accused me of being a vandal, troll, and a malfunctioning bot. They have also started to use hostile edit summaries such as this one. Comfycozybeds (talk) 15:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible behavioral OR problems by myself in The Putin Interviews (?)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Brief background (And I managed to post it wrong, first time) I've earlier asked for better guidance when it comes to Plots of motion pictures, novels, etc - at the Village Pump as well as elsewhere. As I was looking for information about Oliver Stone's The Putin Interviews series, did I notice that the article in question contained very little information. Someone had began at a Summary, which must be the counterpart to a Plot within fiction - film/novels etc. And we are then to use the film/interview or novel as a primary source. Any contributor must take especially documentaries like this one very serious. And report what's observed, without making any own conclusions. Otherwise it would be OR, obviously.

Having said that, am I hereby reporting myself to AN/I, in order to try to find out if I possibly have been guilty of any OR in the summary part of that article or not.

Main issue - If an interviewed person isn't responding to a specific question, then changes subject, and instead makes (for the put Question, in question), a totally unrelated statement, is normally exactly the same as "avoiding a question." Which can be observed (there was no cut made in the interview there) and isn't anything I have "invented" I would further like to say, from a normal human perspective, is a change of subject a very well-known way to avoid a question. Extreme hypothetical aspects aside. In this case, did Putin avoid to answer at least one of Stone's questions. Some other user, is of a very different opinion, and accuses me of having drawn OR conclusions. And appear to make the argument that "Putin never actually said I avoid that question". While I mean, that I have observed that Putin avoids a question from Stone. And hence have I not been guilty of OR. Not to my knowledge, anyhow. If an interviewed person isn't responding to a specific question, change subject, and instead makes, for the put question, a totally unrelated statement, is normally exactly the same as "avoiding a question" which can be observed (and there was not cut in the interview, there, which may be essential)

An other contributor appears to question just everything, in my humble opinion. Like "Does Putin say 'I avoid that question ?'", If Stone really has put this question or if there are any questions at all, in this 4 hours of interviews. Or at the very least, brings up various hypothetical aspects of as much as he/she just can. If this contributor's general argumentation would be carried out in terms of new guidelines for Plots and Summaries, would it mean the end of our service of to our readers of this kind. Finding a Plot or a good Summary for novels, motion pictures, documentaries and interviews in Secondary sources, don't I really believe to be possible for us. And generally, as far as I have seen at least, are our Plots / Summaries seldom or never abused. I concur with those who say, "in Plots/Summaries is the novel or film a primary source" (The only serious alternative would be to remove presumably next to all of them)

I have suggested to that user to make a complaint to AN/I , but it's just possibly might be so, that endless argumentation over "the Pope's beard - or the Beard's beard" is something he/she prefer. But really don't know. And as no such complaint has been made here, do I feel obliged to do this myself. (But I just happened to put this outside AN/I, at Wiki-No OR, I'm not used to make complaints, and I'm sorry for this mistake of mine.)

And I think an AN/I verdict would be to prefer, in this special case, ahead of endless time wasted at talk-pages over nothings (not just for me here and now, but in general and for the future). In a nutshell - isn't changing subject exactly the same as avoiding a question, normally ? And I really mean e-x-a-c-t-l-y the same, in this case.

And if AN/I find me guilty of intentional OR violation, do I expect some kind of proper punishment, although I have reported myself. If AN/I find me guilty of unintentional OR, would some comments be nice (aside of a possible punishment), something that I could take to heart for the future. And if AN/I find that I haven't been guilty of OR violation, then would this matter still be decided, for other obvious observations related to Plots / Summaries.

I will notify "myself" as well as the contributor who's got a very different opinion, but as he hasn't brought it up, do I leave this up to himself, if he feels like participate in this complaint against myself. I guess he/she will, as he/she was the one who notified me that "this isn't the real AN/I"

Finally, I'm not doing this for fun, I must add. Am I wrong must AN/I punish me as if the complaint came from the other contributor. But the issue is about whether I have drawn OR conclusions in the Summary part of The Putin Interviews article. (I made a WP:BOLD statement in the lead of this article, with the aim to get more contributors interested. Four hour of interviews with a Summary of 1,5 line did I find to be appallingly little. And I guessed t hat the article is somewhat delicate and perhaps may scare contributors. Boeing720 (talk) 06:52, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOR is a content policy. This page is for actionable violations of behavior policy, thus you can't report someone to ANI for NOR violation, including yourself. See WP:DR for ways to resolve content disputes. Unless you can make a case that you are guilty of disruptive editing, you will have to find your punishment elsewhere. I could suggest some S&M sites. ―Mandruss 07:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)This miasma of incoherent ramblings is fairly typical of Boeing720's writing. He seems to have great difficulty expressing himself in an intelligible way in English, yet steadfastly refuses to acknowledge or accept any advice he is given in the attempt to help him. Generally, it is quite difficult to work out what he is saying and this applies to main space edits as well, with the consequence that others have to come along and clean up after him. If ever there was a case of competence is required, this is it. - Nick Thornetalk 07:10, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with all of Nick Thorne's comment. This seems entirely redundant to the WP:NOR/N thread. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:30, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • A remedy is required. I commented at Boeing720's talk regarding a completely unacceptable edit (diff) which changed a straight forward account of what happened in an interview to a slanted assertion in Wikipedia's voice that Putin had avoided a "specific question". Of course such a conclusion would be valid for almost all interviews with politicians, but Boeing720 fails to understand that Wikipedia is not the place for such blog-like commentary. The user has had some support in the past from kind observers who see Boeing720 struggling with English and apply buckets of WP:AGF. However, the user's talk page show that the time for that is past. The problem may involve an inability to comprehend the English explanations that have been given. Johnuniq (talk) 07:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll provide some examples of how I've tried to deal with this user. I first encountered Boeing720 on C (programming language) while cleaning up[122] a series of edits he was making. The bad grammar made the sentences nearly indecipherable and for example one reference offered was literally "This was stated by a computer and high skilled Swedish programmer at university level, by 2001". Also on a technical level the knowledge presented was very rudimentary, superfluous to the article, and sometimes wrong. Subsequently I have kept and eye out and these[123][124] are typical of the kind of corrections that are necessary to every major article edit Boeing720 makes. Explaining[125][126] patiently in detail what the grammatical and sourcing problems are has never had any effect, he argues past the point, often asserts his expertise, becomes aggravated and most problematically: continues making the same mistakes. For examples of the conversations see Talk:Register (keyword), Talk:C (programming language)#Recent edits, User talk:Boeing720#Unsourced opinions/commentary (and the section above it) and WP:NORN#Report myself, OR (?). I feel bad about the circumstance; I think Boeing720's intent is good but an inability to process and accept advice regarding original research and fundamental English grammar is difficult to work with. —DIYeditor (talk) 09:09, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Non-administrator comment) I recommend a warning and close until another editor reports Boeing720 (if they still persist with OR or become disruptive). (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.)PaleoNeonate – 12:46, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is the core of the matter (taken from DIYeditor's contribution above): "I commented at Boeing720's talk regarding a completely unacceptable edit (diff) which changed a straight forward account of what happened in an interview to a slanted assertion in Wikipedia's voice that Putin had avoided a "specific question". " - But I disagree (and from scratch, was it DIYeditor who changed my contribution, just see the history file to article in blue below). Writing "Putin avoided that question" is obvious enough for making that statement. It's not an interpretation, is no change of the actual significance. It's solely an observation. Regarding Edward Snowden in The Putin Interviews. When Stone asks about Putin's views on Edward Snowden and whether he is a traitor or not, Putin replies, "No he is not, as he never has worked for any foreign country," but when Stone then turns that question around and asks "What about if a Russian FSB employee had done something similar ?", then Putin avoids this question by changing subject, and instead says "To spy on ones own allies is dirty, really dirty". I cannot find the words "avoid this question" includes any interpretation or OR. Putin changed subject, he didn't reply to Stone's question, which is exactly the same as avoiding a question. If continue on this line in absurdum: Was, what Putin then said really a reply at all ? Or did he begin discussing something else ? Perhaps he didn't hear Stone or his (possible) question ? If it indeed was a question at all !? Or perhaps Putin didn't listen good enough ? And did Stone actually ask any question at all during 4 hours ? Only at a few occasions did Stone actually say "This is something i must ask..", "People at home expects me to ask this..", so if following in absurdum can no editor at Wikipedia state that there were any other questions, but those ones.. And did Putin say "my reply to your question is..." anytime during the (aired) interviews ? Define "question" , define "reply" etc. etc. In absurdum.
I really don't think I challenge any of our guidelines. And certainly not their intentions. Largely all our Plots and Summary parts to our articles about film /motion pictures, novels, TV-series and TV-documentaries would have to be deleted or heavily reduced, if it's unacceptable to make obvious observations. So what is an "obvious observation" ? One answer is, something that a wide majority share and agree. Absolutely free of own conclusions. DIYeditor has previously pointed out that Putin doesn't specifically say that he avoids that question - but nevertheless does Putin avoid this question. Which all who have watched would agree to, that he does. Not everything must be said in words in order to be obvious enough to observe ! And the use of primary sources isn't my invention, but I can understand if someone should think Stone's interviews are of higher importance, when compared to fiction. But I think I was careful in my contributions to The Putin Interviews. Including in the edit summaries. And including "Putin avoided that question". I think we have arrived at some kind of crossroads. A crossroads between common sense and reason in one corner, and "absurdum" in the other one. At least when it comes to Plots and Summaries. "Carefulness" must however be a keyword in such cases. But I say again, obvious observations, doesn't by default require words. Especially not in filmed dialogues, and as long as secondary sources are unavailable.
  • Complaints about my English isn't a part of this imperative matter and formal complaint. (But I've never received complaints like DIYeditor's before, during six years here. I think my self-estimation of my English is correct, compared to others - 3, advanced but not academical. But anyone is free to open an other AN/I complaint, about that matter.) This AN/I complaint is meant to be about whether obvious observations of primary sources necessarily must be said in words or not. (excluding stupid hypothetical possibilities and counter possibilities) - and of course if I have violated our OR guideline. My position is "not by default" and most certainly not, in this case. If am wrong, do I fear most of our Plot and Summary "service" (if I may use that label) for our readers are endangered. Lastly do I humbly ask of those who make comments here, to realize that this is a matter of precedent. Boeing720 (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Repeating the same arguments in great length, verging on WP:TLDR does nothing to promote your cause. We get it that you don't think you did anything wrong. That is entirely the problem here. Despite having several people point out the requirement to avoid OR, you merrily carry on asserting that your interpretation is not OR. If you can't see why this is an issue then I'm not sure Wikipedia is the place for you. Once again I must point out that our job here is to reflect what the reliable sources say. You viewing a video is not a reliable source. End of discussion. Oh, and you don't get to decide what is discussed and examined here at AN/I. All aspects of an editors behaviour may and often are examined, including their competence and the amount of work they might create for others even if they are editing in good faith. My advice would be to reconsider your position, to accept that you are required to abide by policy here and promise to listen to advice from others. - Nick Thorne talk 05:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No. I'm asking for better guidelines regarding the use of primary sources in relation to our Plots and Summaries. And I'm questioning if my contribution in question is an observation or an OR violation. That's the core. Boeing720 (talk) 00:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This really is looking like serious IDHT at the very least, and CIR quite likely. EEng 00:39, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Nick Thorn, for your comment, by the way. But one example: The Candidate (1972 film) - Second line of the Plot: "Bill McKay (Robert Redford), the idealistic, handsome, and charismatic son of former California governor John J. McKay (Melvyn Douglas)." How can we state Bill McKay to be "idealistic, handsome, and charismatic" ? Is it an obvious observation or an OR violation ? I hope you can see my point here. (even if I have managed to create a kind of mess here, for which I'm sorry) Boeing720 (talk) 00:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What's IDHT and CIR ? Jokes ? Boeing720 (talk) 01:00, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP:IDHT, WP:CIR. How many times do you have to be told that we don't handle content disputes at ANI, and most assuredly not content disputes between an editor and himself? Your rambling opening post belongs in a museum. EEng 01:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a dispute. Not from my side. We simply have to discuss where the limits go between observation and own conclusions regarding primary sources in our Plots and Summaries, and when that becomes OR or not. Wasn't "Putin avoided that question" solely an observation or was it a conclusion I did. I really think we need a verdict. For the future.
My position is, unless AN/I comes to a different conclusion, that we are allowed to observe, listening in this example. Hence can we, without any interpretation, write what's obvious observations. I believe that the border between interpretation and observation goes where we begin to think actively. Boeing720 (talk) 03:59, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can someone PLEASE close this before we have to give this guy a smack? EEng 20:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hillbillyholiday

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHillbillyholiday&type=revision&diff=801754061&oldid=801750293 (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Flyer22 Reborn: (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I'd be fine switching my block to an indef. This is ridiculous to be blunt. And the threat of socking is adding to it. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't read that as a threat to sock, but as a complaint that he's being accused of socking on flimsy evidence. We typically allow blocked users to vent on their talkpage to a limited extent provided it doesn't descend into disruption. If he starts making nasty attacks rather than just general venting, or if he's actually caught socking rather than just talking about it, then by all means extend it to indef, but expecting people to be perfectly polite when (as they see it) Wikipedia has punished them for trying to comply with policy would be unrealistic. ‑ Iridescent 17:44, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What do you think this sentence means? Well, Rick, I am going to cock a snoot at both "restriction" and "block" per the following policies: Ignore all rules and WP:Anyone can edit.AlexEng(TALK) 18:07, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"I don't agree with my block and I'm going to complain about it". Admins aren't the Wikipedia Thought Police; we sanction editors on the grounds of what they do, not on the grounds of what they might hypothetically do. If he's actually socking (which is perfectly possible) then you should have no problem finding some evidence of it. ‑ Iridescent 18:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
While I agree in regards to the "socking" thing that we'll handle it if it actually happens, HBH has said several times that they intend to ignore the restriction, and in less than a month has proceeded to do just that three times now, even after a warning and then a week's block. I think that in itself merits consideration as to whether they ought to return to editing without agreeing to abide by the restriction. Otherwise, in a little over a month, I suspect we'll be right back here again. SeraphimbladeTalk to me 18:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) I was getting ready to say that Seraphimblade. It's a blatant WP:IDHT on his part with regards to the restriction placed on his editing. I gave a month to hopefully encourage him to stop, drop the stick over this and move on, but he's not doing it. If there is sufficient enough demand to do so, an indef would be warranted. RickinBaltimore (talk) 18:23, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Iridescent: I'm not asking for a sanction. I'm disputing the dubious claim that he has not broadcasted his intent to violate the block and the editing restriction. If/when he socks, I'll approach SPI asking for a sanction. AlexEng(TALK) 21:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly suggest you look at the main reverter at Manny Pacquaio by the way - HH is far from the worst offender. By the way, I have disagreed with HH in the past, but the case at hand I think is not quite as clear-cut as some might think. Collect (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Collect: You do realize that HBH is under an editing restriction, right? It doesn't get any more clear-cut than that. — nihlus kryik (talk) 19:59, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that does not obviate the issue on the BLP where one editor seems intent on violating WP:BLP and WP:CONSENSUS which I regard as something which should be of interest. If you do not wish to even note BLP issues, that is fine. Most Wikipedia editors seem oblivious. Cheers. And some folks might consider the use of an IP sock as strongly verging on vandalism, but I guess IP edits which just happen to be exact duplicates of another person's edits are not to be questioned. Collect (talk) 20:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Collect: That's actually exactly what it does. You didn't read it, otherwise you would have seen the part where his restriction takes precedence over any BLP violation unless it is obvious vandalism. — nihlus kryik (talk) 20:12, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and pure coincidence that the IP geo-locates to the Philippines. I didn't realise it was ok to support accusations of illegal activity with YouTube clips of ESPN's "Teddy Atlas show", or from sources such as "KDramaStars", the personal blog of Gideon Lasco MD, or FightHype TV. But, hey, maybe they're all perfectly acceptable. Also now sure why "Mayweather vs. Pacquiao lawsuit" and "Post Mayweather fight injury" are subsections beneath "Steroid allegations". But then I don't live in the Philippines, Or have any financial interest in boxing. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Collect, I looked at the BLPN section, at the archived ANI section, and on the talk page, and try as I might I can't find any argument to support you and remove that content again. Unfortunately then, since we don't even remotely have a consensus on the BLP-violating quality of the material, and the sourcing being not ridiculously wrong or stupid, we are stuck with the content still in there, because--and I don't like this at all--in this edit some IP editor (whose other work is borderline incompetent/disruptive) restored it without explanation. Perhaps another admin, more roguish than me, thinks that disruptive enough to revert, but Samsara protected it eight minutes later, which is time enough for us to consider that protection a sort of a stamp of approval. If you had more supporters in either of those three discussions than the now-blocked editor and a sock I might have acted. Sorry. [ec with Martinevans123 who also comments on the IP...] Drmies (talk) 20:33, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • In reply to that - we've had an unresolved bug in mediawiki for a while, whereby after a temporarily elevated protection expires, the previous protection is not automatically reinstated, even if of duration beyond the later protection's expiry. So previously active longer protections must be manually restored. The protection carried out on Manny Pacquiao is such a procedural restoration of a previous protection state and should not be seen in relation to any recent conflict at the article - the original indef semi protection stems from 2010. (The technical limitation is also explained here, in a section which - full disclosure - I wrote. The overall document was co-written with two other admins.) Thank you. Samsara 12:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Martin, the BLPN discussion is still open. Had you made a case there, in a bit more detail, well... Drmies (talk) 20:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Had I made one... ? So my contribution here is just a waste of everyone's time? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        • Maybe your time--not mine. Had you made that contribution elsewhere, in a bit more detail (since I don't know exactly what you're pointing at), this might have gone differently earlier already. Here, we're discussing Hillbillyholiday. I'm glad you're picking up the torch for them and if you plant it on the talk page, well... Drmies (talk) 20:41, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'm only here because HBH's Talk page is on my watch list and I couldn't see any kind of explanation here as to why he may have been so keen to keep removing that article section. I have no interest in that article, or that particular subject matter. I was just suggesting that that section looked a bit borderline or suspect. If all we're doing is counting reverts, then obviously that's irrelevant. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:46, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
            • Martinevans123, you have said more in that one sentence above than I can find on the talk page. OK, maybe that's an exaggeration, but come on--have a close look at it, comment and point out the flaws, evaluate the sources: you are good at this and apparently you're neutral. I'd appreciate it. I didn't see the obvious BLP vio in the quick look that I took, or I might have done something. Drmies (talk) 23:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note that all those proposing nugatory material on Pacquaio seem to be Philippine. I consider such material as

In spite of multiple knockdowns and near stoppages, since the allegations Pacquiao has yet to score a knockout inside the ring ,
Pacquiao's trainer Freddie Roach has had suspicion of Pacquiao's former strength and conditioning coach Alex Ariza. Roach stated that Ariza had been giving Pacquiao "special drinks" without his permission. Roach also stated "One of the reasons I don't work with him [Ariza] anymore is he's a little shady. He used to give Manny a drink before workouts, and I asked him what was in the drink and he would never tell me. I told him I need to know what was in the drinks because you're giving it to my fighter.",
Well respected boxing aficionado Teddy Atlas has been of the belief that Pacquiao has been on steroids in the past based on what he [Atlas] sees with his eyes. saying the power is the last thing to go in a fighter, and Manny doesn't have his anymore. and the like.

I suspect that third person accusations of steroid use are generally considered a BLP issue, but your mileage may vary.

currently Pacquiao is facing a lawsuit of 5 million dollars by two fans for failing to disclose the shoulder injury in the lead up to his bout with Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

strikes me as something for which a consensus for inclusion should be required.

Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum stated that Pacquiao suffered the injury back in 2008 causing even more confusion as Pacquiao just stated that he suffered the injury during the fight now that he is facing lawsuits also appears problematic.

The fact is that those insisting on this material have steadfastly refused to start any RfC on it, and instead have a bunch of Filipino IPs doing reverts. I rather think this is sufficient grounds for likely checking out the main proponents of this material in the BLP, in fact. Consider those statements, and ask whether they are of a nature which requires strong sourcing compliant in all respects with WP:BLP and WP:CONSENSUS and whether an editor who refuses to even start an RfC is acting in good faith. Merci. Collect (talk) 00:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Agree 100%. Many thanks, User:Collect. Martinevans123 (talk) 06:56, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blanking sockmaster's userpage allowed?

Regarding this incident after I blanked the userpage of a sockmaster who has been apparently inactive for seven years. My understanding was that such accounts were de facto community banned and such actions were allowed. Or am I mistaken? ☆ Bri (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Does the user page violate any Wikipedia policy? I'm asking because I saw no violation. I'd say it's wise not to mess with the user pages of others without some pressing reason (BLP vio, COPYVIO, etc.) Tiderolls 14:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Now I'm super confused because since I posted, an admin has done the same kind of blanking for the same reason on an unrelated userpage here. So apparently it is allowed? ☆ Bri (talk) 14:43, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't always disallowed. But whether it should be done or not is a matter of circumstance. The page you blanked hadn't been edited in over two years; if it has sat for that long without harming anyone, then there's no reason to blank it now. Such actions might not be forbidden, but they shouldn't be done without reason. Writ Keeper 14:51, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Writ Keeper on this. The question shoul never be if you could; it is always if you should. Don't think about what you're allowed to do. Think about what you need to do, and if it serves any purpose. A two-year old unused talk page is doing no harm. --Jayron32 15:24, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know this might be an odd thing to say but IMHO if the user contributed before they socked etc then it should be kept, If they're a prolific sock who never really contributed at all here then the page should be blanked but as Writ Keeper says it's all circumstance really. –Davey2010Talk 15:09, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's always seemed to be the general practice to replace the content with the SPI banner, so that's what I do. If we want a ruling on this, probably Bearian knows best. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:17, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I meant Berean Hunter. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's always seemed to me to be the general practice for sock blocks too, though it's often avoided (per WP:DENY) for trolls who seem to be trying to maximize their recognised sock count. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) To me it depends on the contents of the page. I don't normally blank a sockmaster's page unless it contains material I would blank anyway, but I do add a {{sockmaster}} notice to the very top with some details. Sockmasters aren't automatically banned, only repeat offenders end up in a de facto ban situation because nobody would unblock them, and rarely the community actively bans a very disruptive user. Sockpuppets, on the other hand: I consider them to be violating policy from the moment they create their accounts, and so I regularly blank their userpages and replace with a {{sockpuppet}} notice. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:19, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm in the 'leave things alone unless there's a problem' camp. But taking issue with your original statement, the account is not blocked (and I may be missing something) - you appear to be suggesting that an account that is inactive for seven years becomes community banned. I don't think so. -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I undid the blanking. Partly because I'd prefer it not blanked, but largely because the blanking was completely unexplained. If you're going to do this or similar, the least you can do is add an edit comment explaining why you're doing it William M. Connolley (talk) 16:59, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @William M. Connolley: it's part of the Administrator instructions at WP:SOCKTAG.
    • Tag the sockmaster's user page:
    • If confirmed by CheckUser, on the sockmaster's user page, replace all content with {{sockpuppeteer blocked checked=yes spipage=CASENAME}}
    • If not confirmed by CheckUser, on the sockmaster's user page, replace all content with {{sockpuppeteer blocked spipage=CASENAME}} if the user has been indefinitely blocked. Do not make any change if the user has only been blocked for a limited amount of time.
  • Doug Weller talk 17:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's well and good but Bri is not an administrator so... --Tarage (talk) 18:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Errrm, where's the bit that says "do not explain yourself in the edit comments?" If there isn't such a thing, I don't understand how your comment answers my point William M. Connolley (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I should have made a clear edit summary. Actually I thought this editor's story was well enough known that it would be understood w/o comment. But I'm wary of a determination that non-admins can't do documented cleanup that was written for admins. We have few enough to go around as it is without reserving routine clerking to them. Also WP:NOBIGDEAL and all that. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm with Writ Keeper, Davey, and Jayron. Childofmidnight, for all his flaws later on, has given us an immense amount of content, some of it very good (the stuff he wrote with me and Kelapstick, haha--he never learned how to do citation templates). I feel he deserves a user page. The other user, not so much. Doug, I didn't know about that SOCKTAG rule--I do know that frequently we actually don't tag them, to deny recognition, for instance, or to avoid the (related) Streisand effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drmies (talkcontribs) 18:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • True, but I don't think that's written down. We could still blank but not tag I presume. Doug Wellertalk 20:51, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • So glad I am no longer an admin. Busy and stressed IRL. Bearian (talk) 19:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dimitrios Baltzis

Hi, I'd appreciate some help here. I've been the subject of a spurious report for edit warring [127], and am being pressured (harassed) by Anastan (talk · contribs) to restore content that was copyright violation. Thanks for any assistance re: article and user issues. I am, among other things, curious as to how the doctor's website was apparently so quickly converted to free-use, as well as the possibility of COI; I'd also like to confirm from an objective editor whether notability is satisfied. 2601:188:180:11F0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 20:21, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have send an email to website contact that it would be good to unlock the website for usage, as someone already started it. I have done this numerous times already, as that expand our possibilities to use here. Good faith editors think this is good, unlike other editors who this that editors can have COI with Greek doctor diabetologist. :) Website now have "Licensed under the CC-BY-SA and GFDL." tag, so no reason to remove section per copyright. Simple as that. I asked IP to restore deleted content, as website is free to use on wikipedia. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 20:25, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Of course good faith was questioned; copyright violation content was repeatedly restored, and an unmerited report was opened against me at the edit warring noticeboard. Since these developments, free use has been obtained. That said, it's still not advisable to copy biographical content directly from the subject's website. I'm requesting both scrutiny of Anastan's handling of this, as well as the content and tone of the article going forward. Thanks, 2601:188:180:11F0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 20:51, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you are really interested in content of this, you would restore section and sources you have removed. But per your comment, it looks like you are not interested in this subject anymore, so, doesn't matter really. All best. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 21:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Phil Murphy (politician)

Could we get a sysop to nuke the problem editor here and probably clean up the page history... most of the first page is now just BLP violations and then reversion of them. Home Lander (talk) 21:50, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a load of RDing and blocked one account, Maile66 (talk · contribs) already took care of the other. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 22:45, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possible legal threat by Franz Lidz

In this edit, this one, and this edit, a person claiming to be the subject of a BLP said, "The Talk page fantasizing and the finger-pointing templates that blanket both pages of my entry are inappropriate, unprofessional, malicious and, in the opinion of PS&E counsel, potentially libelous. And because the pages are on public display, they impugn my professional reputation". This seems like a legal threat to me. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, that's a legal threat, but I think he has a point regarding his BLP. I'll take a look. (see WP:DOLT) Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ivanvector: Thank you. It seems the issues are comments by users on the talk page rather than in the BLP, but your review would be appreciated. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is Franz Lidz. As I just wrote on the Talk page to my entry, I am emphatically not making a legal threat. I am merely underscoring the recklessness of the edits on the Talk page. I am also requesting that the entry and its Talk page be blanked, per the procedure spelled out elsewhere on this website.50.201.240.110 (talk) 18:48, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As one of the editors whose comments on the talk page has been blanked, I want to make it clear that I was not accusing Mr. Lidz of any collusion with the paid editing ring, and I think anyone who actually reads my comments in the context which they were posted can see that. ♠PMC(talk) 22:09, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was involved in that discussion as well, and it is abundantly clear that nobody was accusing Lidz of anything. The existence of the sockfarm which edited Franz Lidz and added references to his work in many articles is indisputable, but noone at any time has said or implied that Lidz was a party to it - the accusations of responsibility have all been towards his publisher(s) or PR people connected to the publishers. No one was being reckless, there is clear evidence of the sockfarm's actions, including an admission from one of the participating editors, therefore Lidz (if that is Lidz - until he confirms with OTRS we have no way of being sure) is incorrect in claiming "recklessness". Also, the blanking of the comments is a travesty unwarranted, and should be undone. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:23, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, why are any of these actions (blanking of talk page comments, AFDing based on subject's desire for deletion) being taken before there's even been an identification to OTRS? Or am I mistaken and his identity has been confirmed? Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:31, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with BMK; unless there's been an OTRS confirmation of identity, I think we're jumping the gun on the AfD. I also agree that the discussion that got blanked didn't impugn Lidz personally or professionally, though it suggested (based on what I understand to be pretty clear behavioral evidence) that somebody was engaged in conduct that appeared promotional on our page about Lidz. And, contrary to what the IP above says about legal threats, it was a legal threat. I'm not sure it's to the level of a NLT block, but it's definitely disruptive, and I have no doubt it was made to chill participation. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 23:39, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding confirmation of identity, it's a private matter that's being handled offline. As for the blanked section, I agree there was no bright-line misconduct in the section, but BLP concerns shouldn't be brushed aside, and on the balance I felt that courtesy blanking the section was a harmless way to address the editor's concern. If anyone really wants to read what was there it's available in the history. And as for the statement being a legal threat: if it was, it was retracted, so the issue is moot. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 00:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ivanvector: I would never suggest brushing aside a legitimate BLP concern, but I think it was pretty clear that this was being badly misread by the person claiming to be Lidz, most probably based on the "journalism professor"'s characterization of the discussion to them. Regarding the identification of the account and IP as Lidz, if it turns out that they cannot identify themselves to the satisfaction of OTRS, I would suggest that the discussion be un-blanked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd feel much more comfortable with the trusted, trained volunteers who staff OTRS handling identity verification than it being a "private matter" and "handled offline". This is one of the reasons OTRS was created, so we weren't handling potentially private information on an ad hoc basis. Honestly, I'm surprised to hear this suggestion that BLP concerns are being brushed aside: they're certainly not. As to the retraction of the threat: that may be satisfactory from a NLT perspective, but it does not remove the harm done by the editor claiming to be Lidz in making a legal threat deliberately to stifle legitimate discussion about unidentified individuals' promotional activity on his Wikipedia biography. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 05:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In fact I did mean to go through OTRS or send instructions to the editor, except I couldn't figure out from the OTRS pages what to tell them to do. Instead I emailed Arbcom, which I suppose isn't much removed from screaming into the void, but that is what I meant by "being handled offline"; I wasn't intending to provide further details. Arbcom hasn't responded; if someone more familiar with OTRS would like to take over that aspect of this whole thing, please do. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not a legal threat - per Wikipedia:No legal threats#DefamationA discussion as to whether material is libelous is not a legal threat. See also: WP:LIBEL. Recommended course of action is an email to: info-en-q@wikipedia.org. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 23:27, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    The "discussion" of libel – which was decidedly more than a simple discussion, as lawyers have already been consulted:

    The Talk page fantasizing and the finger-pointing templates that blanket both pages of my entry are inappropriate, unprofessional, malicious and, in the opinion of PS&E counsel, potentially libelous. And because the pages are on public display, they impugn my professional reputation ... Wikipedia's bylaws state that it is acceptable to blank an article for libel or privacy reasons as an emergency measure, as described in the policy on biographies of living persons. [128]

    – is only one issue. Steps are being taken on the basis of the account User:FranzLidz being the actual real life Franz Lidz, so identification is also required, since there's a non-zero possibility that the "journalism professor" who got so strangely upset about the Franz Lidz article being edited and the user "FranzLidz" are the same person. I'm pinging @Mailer Diablo: and @Sphilbrick:, two editors whose names I am familiar with who are listed as OTRS members to see if they have anything to add to this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Still not a legal threat. A legal threat(linked at WP:NLT) is a statement by a party that it intends to take legal action on another party, generally accompanied by a demand that the other party take an action demanded by the first party or refrain from taking or continuing actions objected to by the demanding party. That is "(If you do not do X,) I intend to take legal action"; not "I asked my lawyer and they think it's potentially libelous". I realise that this seems like splitting hairs, but it's an important distinction. And, while speculation on the identities of editors is profoundly uninteresting, I am pleased that Sphilbrick is looking into it. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 00:34, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just because it's not a legal threat that rises to the level of a NLT block does not render it non-disruptive. Going on a website and making it clear you have legal counsel investigating matters published on that website has a distinct chilling effect—no matter how preposterous an actual lawsuit might be, as it would be in this case. And, frankly, this is why people make these statements: to silence speech they dislike and to coerce speech of which they approve. The object of the threat made on the talk page was precisely this. We're not talking about someone unsophisticated here, either. This sort of conduct honestly should draw a block. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 05:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly right, and although WP:NLT doesn't say so explicitly (but should) it de facto recognizes "chilling effect" as one oif the primary reasons for disallowing legal threats when it says that "Repeats of legal threats on the user's talk page have limited scope for disruption or chilling effect", implying that legal threats elsewhere have a broader scope for disruption and chilling effect. (The policy needs some disambiguation.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am looking in to it.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:04, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Identify confirmation I can confirm that OTRS is in receipt of an email from Franz Lidz and I have confirmed his identity.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:41, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI, it won't surprise anyone that OTRS agents are not permitted to reveal the contents of email sent to OTRS, but it is also true that we cannot even confirm the existence of such an email in many cases. When someone sends a permission statement into permissions, I believe it is okay to acknowledge the existence of the email (although not the contents beyond confirmation that an acceptable license has or has not been provided). I will make the argument that someone writing in to confirm their identity to info EN implicitly expects that this fact can be reported elsewhere, but until I get confirmation from other OTRS admin's that this should be an exception to the normal rule for emails to info EN, we require explicit permission from the subject before even acknowledging the existence of an email. That has happened in this case. --S Philbrick(Talk) 00:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to explore this a bit, if identity is confirmed, but permission to make it public is withheld, do we still entertain changes in articles, etc. at the request of the confirmed editor? It would seem that we shouldn't, as only the OTRS team member would be aware, or the admin they notify to make article deletion, and the community would not be able to participate in those discussions, not knowing that the identity has been confirmed. It would seem to me that part of the "cost" of having one's objections seriously considered is to have the account identity publicly confirmed, since one can simply use a "throw-away" account to do so, at not breach of privacy to the subject. Not an issue here, obviously, but it would be good to know for the future. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:26, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have filed an SPI in order to determine if User:FranzLidz used the three IP addresses (same person) to comment on Talk:Franz Lidz before they created the FranzLidz account. The SPI was filed before I saw Sphilbrick's confirmation above, but does not rest on the question of whether FranzLidz' is or is not Franz Lidz. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:21, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In what I feel is the best interest of Wikipedia, I am withdrawing the SPI. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder

Resolved, nac SwisterTwister talk 22:38, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is being vandalised by multiple new users who appear to be socks of User:Bajirao1007. An image which he admits is his brother has twice been uploaded and speedily deleted from Commons here and here then placed on our project placed here here,here here here by Bajirao nd here. Also see User_talk:Bajirao1007#Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. Even if his brother, clearly a minor, does have this illness it is unacceptable to be uploading these images to the commons and then putting them in this article. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 15:47, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(Non-administrator comment) The article has been semi-protected for 2 days, no one has been blocked, so we'll see if the vandalism starts again when the protection expires, you might also consider filing a report as SPI. Tornado chaser (talk) 19:48, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Insults by MjolnirPants

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Over the past month or so, MjolnirPants has made a point of insulting me when we interact:

  • Trying to be clever by deploying insults like "moron" and "idiot" with just enough plausible deniability: [131] [132] [133]

I don't feel I should have to put up with this sort of behavior. I am requesting whatever sanction against MjolnirPants is deemed appropriate.

On a note about procedure: I would appreciate it if the people who discuss this request remain limited to

  1. MjolnirPants, who of course has the right to speak in their own defense.
  2. Whichever admins choose to review this request.

I expect that several editors who edit in the American Politics subject area will want to comment, but this request runs the risk of turning into a massive back-and-forth. I'd simply like the question of these insults to be handled here. -Thucydides411 (talk) 00:36, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is extraordinary. You wish to exclude the witnesses who have seen your behavior over the past year? Wouldn't that rather limit the information available to who ever closes this matter? SPECIFICO talk 00:40, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Point 1 of procedure is that you are put under the same exact microscope as MjolnirPants. So no, this discussion shall not remain limited to MjolnirPants. Point 2 of procedure is that non-admins who are involved or who can present evidence are free to do so and that experienced veterans can provide input or guidance as they deem fit - as I am doing right now. Mr rnddude (talk) 00:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't comment here too often, but this is fucking ridiculous. The very method in which this "complaint" was filed should be grounds for dismissal. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:23, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Right on top: "This page is for reporting and discussing incidents on the English Wikipedia that require the intervention of administrators and experienced editors." and WP:BOOMERANG: "There are often reports on various noticeboards, especially the incident noticeboard, posted by editors who are truly at fault themselves for the problem they're reporting. In other cases, a person might complain about another editor's actions in an incident, yet during the events of that incident they've committed far worse infractions themselves. In both cases, such editors will usually find sanctions brought against themselves rather than the people they've sought to report." The fact that you request users to abide by your "rules" is fucking ridiculous. Callmemirela 🍁 talk 01:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, none of your requirements can or will be met. Anyone filing a charge against another editor on AN/I will have their own behavior examined as well, and AN/I is open to the opinions of any Wikipedian.
    Let me start the ball rolling by looking at your editing history. [134]
    You've been editing here for 11 years, since 2006, and yet you've only made 2,323 edits. Of those edits, a mere 33%, or 765 edits, have been to articles, the things that we're supposedly here to write, expand and correct, the basic unit of the encyclopedia. On the other hand, 66.2% of your edits (1,535 in number) have been to Talk, User talk, and Wikipediaspace. My observation is that you spend a fair number of those edits complaining that Wikipedia's consensus-determination procedure is broken, "not fair", and needs a complete overhaul, much as you did in a current discussion on AN, where you referred to it as "mob rule". You appear to be here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, and in doing so, you exhibit an alarming degree of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT behavior, totally ignoring the valid, logical and reasonable arguments of your oppponents -- It's no wonder that such behavior would get under the skin of some editors. I myself have been the victim of your use of gross mischaracterizations of others' arguments in order to attempt to win a point.
    In short, I really think that, overall, you are WP:NOTHERE to contribute to the encyclopedia, your article edits being clearly incidental to your commentary edits. I'm not certain if your behavior is egregious enough to warrant a sanction, but I do think that you are in no position whatsoever to criticize the behavior of other editors. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:36, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not going to say much, but I will say this. The "insults" linked above were already the subject of some admin shopping by Thuc, when none of the three admins they contacted were willing to block me the way he kept insisting they should. Also, I stand by my accusation that Thuc was lying in that thread. Thuc continued to insist that an admin never provided any evidence for a block, despite dozen of editors and more than a few admins pointing out that the admin in question has provided evidence multiple times. Not to mention the multiple times said admin provided evidence. So I don't, for one second, buy that Thuc honestly believed his claims in that thread to be true. No intelligent person could, and I have opined on more than one occasion that Thuc is an intelligent person. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 01:42, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pants is one of a long list of editors that Thucydides411 follows around to hurl personal aspersions and attacks and to forum shop seeking sanctions and enforcement. Here's one gratuitous thread [135] where Thuc bludgeons @Drmies: about some more-or-less ordinary comment Drmies made about Thuc's nemesis @Volunteer Marek:. I'll look for similar examples where Thuc goes after me, @MrX: and others. I won't say more without diffs. I will say that Thuc edits article talk and noticeboard pages nearly exclusively -- mainly either to attack other edtiors or to complain that WP is "no fair" essentially because we insist on representing the WEIGHT of mainstream sources, which don't happen to be the sources Thuc particularly respects. I would say that Thuc is WP:NOTHERE. SPECIFICO talk 01:49, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The longer this stays open, the more likely a BOOM. I suggest the filer withdraw and stop wasting editor time. Objective3000 (talk) 01:58, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The whole "you're not an idiot so don't talk like one" or whatever being a personal attack is silly. That entire thread on my talk page was silly too. I have not yet seen this editor's good side. Drmies (talk) 02:06, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

German federal election, 2017

Could we have some admin eyes on this please. An editor has repeatedly tried to add some forecast results to the infobox despite there being multiple forecasts around (see the German language article). I have reverted a couple of times but an about to go to sleep and see it's been readded again despite a request to stop on the talkpage. Cheers, Number 57 23:32, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Revoke talk page access for Megerflit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Since I got no response or had taken action from the admin who had blocked this user, I'm going to ask this here.

Can any admin revoke TPA privileges for Megerflit? Looking at the talk page, I see nothing but personal attacks and threats mainly directed at admins who are involved with this user; this user is certainly WP:NOTHERE. Thanks. theinstantmatrix (talk) 00:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Normally diffs are required as evidence, I'll just offer some select quotes;
  • Why am I not astounded that the unbridled arrogance that is the hallmark of your nest of vipers would prevent you from recognizing any of my comments ... as wholly valid OBSERVATIONS about your conduct and procedures, and not just "ranting and insults"?
  • Believe me, Shirley, had I honestly intended to "unload" on your squishy tribe of Wikignats, I fear they may have required intensive therapy and warm cocoa for months.
  • You people really are twisted in your noggins if you honestly believe you acted in any kind of legitimate and effective manner throughout this exchange - Personal comment; Noggins? British editor? Nick Bougas is an American - Megerflit seems to claim to be Nick Bougas -, I don't know that I've ever heard of Americans using the word noggin before.
  • You also seem to have a gigantic chip on your shoulder over being unpaid toadies ... maybe the company should toss your sniffy pack of prima donnas a little folding cash so you can quit taking out your suppressed rage impulses on the hapless Wiki subjects. - Personal comment: Umm, the sniffy pack of prima donnas bit is a bit rich, I mean come on.
  • I can't help but suspect that therein lies the rub ... an unaccomplished slug with no social skills, who will undoubtedly never have a Wikipage of his own, is apparently drunk on being in the unique position to banish those who can handily see right through him.
  • I would be happy to consider any evidence that Megerflit could provide of this though; I routinely received some real unhinged and nasty displays from your "collegial" colleagues. Mr rnddude (talk) 01:39, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the interactions with Mr Bougas, I note that there was hardly any real interaction with him beyond some boilerplate templates and, in the article history, a whole load of fighting with him over maintenance tags, reverts, frustration and not a few insults in edit summaries. I also note that there was minimal discussion with him outside of the edit summaries. Is anyone actually surprised that the subject of the article would explode after having been treated the way he has? Blackmane (talk) 02:50, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Blackmane:--Did you miss Bri's post?Winged Blades Godric 03:16, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did not miss it, but no discussion was borne from that, while the vast bulk of interactions with Mr Bougas was via edit summaries. Hence, my comment minimal discussion. Blackmane (talk) 03:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have revoked Megerflit's talk page access. Nothing productive is happening there. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A35821361 is NOTHERE

Hello, this is pretty much my first time posting at ANI. Basically, A35821361 seems to be only here to criticise the Baha'i Faith and to attack it. His response to being blocked for edit warring was to blame the "members of the Baha'i Faith" for it. He also complained about how "While 36 hours is a brief time to be banned, this complaint is a pattern of intimidation by members of the Bahá'í Faith on those who wish to shed light on historically accuracy, which is not always the narrative sanctioned by the Bahá'í Administrative Order" -- quote from the diff I've linked to, [136], I humbly submit this editor is clearly NOTHERE. I'm sorry for how poor my post looks...just not the best at this.79.66.4.79 (talk) 17:45, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, your diff doesn't work, and I can't figure out what you intended. Please create a diff the way it says here. Also, it might be useful to mention which article he was edit warring on. Bishonen talk 20:23, 14 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Fixed the diff, and A35821361 was edit-warring on the Baha'i Faith page. 79.66.4.79 (talk) 20:50, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A diff from May is not indicative of a current problem. However, poking into User:A35821361's contrib history, I'm not sure WP:NOTHERE is the right issue, but it does look like A35821361 is hostile to Baha'i, and is prone to edit-warring. I don't want to step into this mess, but think some admin or another should. They should probably also notify the user. Argyriou (talk) 23:11, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to thank Argyriou (talk) for mentioning my username here, otherwise I would have no inkling that this discussion was underway. In any case, it is true that I frequently contribute to topics related to the Bahá'í Faith. As my contributions are sourced from objective, third-party references they are not always in concordance with the officially-sanctioned narrative of the Bahá'í Administrative Order. This has often led to the reversion of these contributions and allegations that they are somehow "hostile," when in fact they are unbiased. If you read the continuation of the quote which 79.66.4.79 (talk) has linked to above, it continues, "In fact, this intimidation has led several prominent academics to leave or be ex-communicated by the Bahá'í Administrative Order (see Juan Cole, Abbas Amanat, Denis MacEoin, and Ehsan Yarshater)." It saddens me that these tactics are now attempted in Wikipedia. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 00:15, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not a wikipedia contributor, but just thought i'd chime in to say that some of your first contributions included an entirely uncited claim that Baha'u'llah sold slaves to pay off debts with zero sources, neutral or hostile, given. Getting better at finding citations to support an editorial agenda does not make that editorial agenda cease to exist. None of those academics was actually excommunicated or claimed to have been excommunicated, the closest thing would be Juan Cole claiming to have been threatened with excommunication (with the only source for that claim being Cole himself).UrielvIII (talk) 06:14, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Not a Wikipedia editor", indeed, considering that was your first edit. How did you find your way here? Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:17, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I lurk pages I'm interested in, (feel I don't have the writing/citing ability to contribute up to wiki standards though), user in question is a fairly active contributor in a lot of them so I've been lurking his contribution log as well (apologies if that's against wikipedia policy. Feel free to delete if it is).UrielvIII (talk) 06:21, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A35 certainly seems to be here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. I have a theory as to why he so antagonistic to Baha'i, but that would be casting aspersions. Suggest a topic ban. 74.70.146.1 (talk) 01:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The IP you're using began editing today, but you've been around: you know about WP:casting aspersions, for instance. If you have an account your normally edit with, you should have filed this complaint with that account. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:09, 15 September 2017 (UTC)Withdrawn. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:47, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I previously brought this up at the noticeboard here and got no response. I later tried more specific complaints about biographies of living persons here and here, also with no response. I think A35821361 was successful at scaring away any admins from looking past the surface by simply declaring himself to be unbiased. Anyone looking through edits and talk pages would recognize deception, but that takes time. The edit warring on biographies of living persons is still ongoing. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 06:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would welcome anyone to look at my edit and contribution history to Wikipedia, and compare it to the edit and contribution history of other editors on the same articles. Aside from being sourced from objective, third party sources, my edits and contributions are entirely compliant with the guidelines of Wikipedia. On the other hand, one should consider what the objectives of some of the other editors are. For example, Cuñado ☼ - Talk has falsely accused me of sockpuppetry and called me a "deceitful attacker" on my talk page. More recently, there has been systematic reversions and deletions to the biographies of members of the Universal House of Justice, the supreme governing institution of the Bahá'í Faith whose decisions are deemed infallible by believers. The reason given for these reversions and deletions are that the members of the Universal House of Justice lack notability, when in fact in addition to their religious service to the Bahá'í Administrative Order many these individuals have led successful careers as academics, authors, artists, actors, and the heads of award-winning NGOs. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 09:42, 15 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]
This is comical. If there is an admin listening I'd be happy to lay out in detail why A35821361's last comment is deception (maybe delusion?) in line with how he has behaved for the last 9 months. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 15:13, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the article for Thornton Chase and the discussion for the AfD is demonstrative. Thornton Chase was an insurance salesman and is only covered in subjects relating to his position as the first convert to the Bahá’í Faith in the United States to have remained a Bahá’í. He does not pass any other notability guideline. None of the coverage is independent, as it all comes from Bahá’í sources, and priod to the AfD proposal almost entirely from one book written by a Bahá’í. This contrasts sharply with the articles of the members of Universal House of Justice members that have been systematically deleted, which were sourced from multiple different sources regarding various accomplishments of the individuals covered in their respective articles. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 13:16, 15 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]
Simply false. The biographies were stuffed with references that don't mention the person. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 15:14, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A cursory look at Thornton Chase's article shows citations from a large number of independent newspapers. A skim of the contents of the article also shows that it covers his notable service in the Civil War. (although from the talk page these may have been added recently). By contrast the article for one House of Justice member, Stephen Birkland, contains citations exclusively from either Baha'i sources or Juan Cole, a former Baha'i who leveled accusations of misconduct against Birkland (the article that is not by a Baha'i or Cole only mentions Birkland by citing Cole's statements). Neither of those sources are neutral third parties. In any case the article only contains three paragraphs and could easily be merged into a larger article which is why I assume it would have been deleted (although I can't say that for certain) UrielvIII (talk) 15:16, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair the Chase article has been developed a ton since it was nominated. But A35821361's skills as a researcher and knowledge are far from mundane. I didn't have to look hard at all for many obvious third party sources. And that's aside from simply looking at the footnotes of Dr. Stockman's research. A35821361 didn't bother while he/she is perfectly willing to spend a great deal of time researching very obscure people for possible personal relationships to other things and beyond. In short he'd rather delete the article on Chase and work on some of these others even if many people agree that Chase is notable and the others several people have found unfounded. Smkolins (talk) 18:29, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's his prerogative to work on whatever he wants. There is nothing wrong with nominating for deletion. BTW, great job improving the article. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 20:27, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I've always tried to research up rather than dismiss down. It's odd to me that he creates the Robert Stockman article and then dismisses a key subject of Stockman's research for decades. Smkolins (talk) 20:56, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For added context, it appears the user in question has posted to the following website accusing people of censoring him: https://bahaicensorship.wordpress.com/2016/09/28/bahai-faith-and-slavery-an-example-of-how-bahais-control-information-on-wikipedia/

The most obvious differences between the version of the article in the link and the current "censored" version on wikipedia are that the entirely unreferenced and unsupported claims that Baha'u'llah sold a slave to pay off debts and that attempts were made to have the book 'Black Pearls' suppressed have been removed.

My own thoughts from some browsing the talk pages of some of the more contentious Baha'i articles are that terms like 'official narrative' and 'excommunication' have been used which paints a picture of a point of view being oppressed and marginalized. However repeatedly editing pages to add content deleted/edited by others, dropping out of discussions on said edits/deletions rather than arguing ones point of view until an agreement is reached and adding inflammatory uncited information an is not a reasonable way to participate in a collaborative project.

To my knowledge Baha'is don't actually hold any positions of authority over wikipedia, with everyone being on more or less equal footing, making accusations of censorship and prosletyzing on a third party website seem counterproductive if the goal is to contribute to an unbiased tone on wikipedia. UrielvIII (talk) 07:19, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is the first time I have heard of this web page. The content therein I had shared on Reddit, relating to a discussion on Bahá’í censorship and information control. The owner of the web site you linked to must have cut-and-paste the content from Reddit into his website. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 13:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Which website it was published to is largely irrelevant. You have complained that you have been called a 'deceitful attacker' and your edits interpreted as hostile on wikipedia, while leveling similar accusations against people you're in disagreement with on an entirely different website rather than raising the issue in the context of an article or with wikipedia adminsUrielvIII (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, upon reading the nothere rules, your articles claims of a cadre devoted to eliminating facts to proselytize is an accusation of a "Long-term agenda inconsistent with building an encyclopedia", something against wikipedias rules. If this 'cadre' does not actually exist (which in my opinion it does not) then editing with the intention of combating their 'official narrative' would in itself constitute a "Long-term agenda inconsistent with building an encyclopedia".UrielvIII (talk) 22:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My contributions to Wikipedia speak for themselves. Where appropriate, I have engaged other editors in discussions on talk pages in relevant topics and articles, and if you have read them, you will note that topics such as Bahá’í review, censorship, information control, and the posthumous editing of literature[1] have on occasion been discussed when relevant. What is ironic is that the endeavor of building a comprehensive encyclopedia is undermined not by my efforts but by those of individuals who engage in such practices as ensuring third-party referenced information is eliminated to bring articles in-line with the officially-sanctioned narrative of the Bahá’í Administrative Order and by their wholesale deletion of the articles related to the individual members of the Universal House of Justice under the pretenses (in my opinion wholly false) that these individuals do not meet notability standards. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 11:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Salisbury, Vance (1997). "A Critical Examination of 20th-Century Baha'i Literature". Bahá'í Library Online. Retrieved December 8, 2016.
Just because you keep saying that you're crusading against an "officially sanctioned narrative" with unbiased edits doesn't make it true. Accusing people of deleting under false pretenses is casting aspersions. UrielvIII (talk) 19:44, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For added context here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith_and_slavery&oldid=737879646 is one of your first contributions which was edited, it includes these sentences with no citations:
"Bahá'u'lláh officially condemned slavery in 1874, by which time he had actually sold a slave to pay debts.", "a book that, despite efforts at censorship by the Bahá'í Administrative Order, was published by the independent Bahá'í publishing company Kalimát Press.". Your inclusion of these false and baseless claims with no sources shows that at the very least you haven't always been committed to defending third-party sourcing, although your commitment to 'exposing' the "officially sanctioned narrative" has remained constant, sources or no. UrielvIII (talk) 00:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Also for context, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gustavo_Correa talkpage on one of the UHJ articles includes a discussion from a month ago of your sourcing, where you're accused of misrepresenting what your cited sources contain. You have not tried to contest the accusation. UrielvIII (talk) 00:44, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And for even more context, this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:A35821361#Good_morning discussion on your talk page pretty much sums up every other discussion you've had regarding your Members of the UHJ pages, you only imply that the fact you are correct is self evident, offer very little reasoning for why that is the case and then drop out of the discussion when counterpoints are raised. That behaviour is not conducive to cooperatively making an encyclopedia.
Your lack of willingness to co-operate with certain editors may be tied to your accusations in your article (linked above) of a secret cadre existing to proselytize on wikipedia, so we're back to that point you didn't address. If you are actively seeking to combat a group is that not a "Long-term agenda inconsistent with building an encyclopedia"? Conspiracy theories about the Bahá’í Administrative Order pushing a narrative don't prove that you are unbiased, if anything, the fact you bring them up to justify your edits makes you seem very biased. UrielvIII (talk) 01:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Among the examples of problems that may be of interest in this thread is:

  • lacking responding to the points raised in edit comments about material attributed to living people. See my edits for example at [137]. It was my understanding that rather than leave the contentious material in the article and tag it with a citation discussion that material on living people should be deleted and discussed to reach consensus. The discussion went precisely nowhere. And this is related to a network of articles that push something A358 really wants out there, judging from the level of engagement, against the input of multiple editors and been going on for a long time.
  • There has also been some mis-attibution of sources in the case of the Kiser Barnes article and was part of the discussion of why that article was deleted. See [138]. A358 did not participate but the matter was acted on.
The issues related to the Kiser Barnes article that was deleted have been discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive960#Biographies of members of the Universal House of Justice as well as User talk:A35821361#Biographies and in the related material discussed on the talk pages of several of the other members of the Universal House of Justice including Farzam Arbab, Gustavo Correa, and Paul Lample. I apologies if it appeared to you that I was disinterested in the issues that led to the deletion of the Kiser Barnes article. Far from it. I would wish that article had not been deleted, as had the articles for Glenford Eckleton Mitchell, Douglas Martin (Bahá'í), and David Ruhe. I further wish the bulk of material had not been injudiciously removed from the articles for Farzam Arbab, Gustavo Correa, and Paul Lample. Regards, A35821361 (talk) 20:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Once again here and in the linked discussions you haven't addressed any of the counterpoints explaining why the article should have been removed, instead just saying and that the removal is unjust. No proof, just flowery language. UrielvIII (talk) 21:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To get specific, on the linked discussion on your user talk page your edits are stated to have violated policy, your response is to state that you have addressed it on the talk pages of those articles. An example of such a discussion is present on the Gustavo Correa talk page, which I have mentioned in another post: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gustavo_Correa. Your 'addressing' of the points consists of saying your sources are third party, saying they mention the subject or their work with no reasoning or actual discussion of why that is the case, and then not responding when you are accused of misrepresenting what your sources contain.
When the point of the bulk your 'third-party' sources not mentioning the person is raised in the discussion your user talk page you respond by entirely changing the subject, completely ignoring the accusation, and accusing Cunado of hypocrisy for starting the pages ten years ago and then stating he wants them deleted now. You have not, as of yet, addressed Cunado's explanation of his change in position, or the original point of your third-party sources being irrelevant to the subject of the articles. UrielvIII (talk) 04:25, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]


As another example of your unwillingness to support your position in discussions of wikipedia policy is discussion of your most recent edits on the 'Criticism of the Baha'i Faith': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Criticism_of_the_Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith Here it is stated that there is no notable criticism of the Faiths position on abortion, your response is to restate your own criticisms of the Faiths stance of abortions. I believe that your edits of this page, and discussion on the talk page show your attitude is that of someone attempting to use wikipedia as a soapbox.
My reasoning for this belief is that you essentially added your own personal interpretation of Baha'i scripture to a page, a direct quote: "but there are a few statements by its founders that raise some controversy by contradicting some current scientific understanding." (notably there is no citation of where this criticism comes from, presumably as it is your opinion), and your response to the question of whether this criticism was notable enough for inclusion on the talkpage was to double down on explaining why your interpretation is valid. While this is the most egregious example of your commitment to pushing an agenda (even here you have basically acknowledged you have an agenda of opposing the "Officially sanctioned narrative", justifying it as correcting a bias (with no reasoning) rather than denying you have an agenda), I believe this attitude is present in the majority of your edits, which (while I'm no expert) I think is against wikipedia guidelines UrielvIII (talk) 04:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps people specialized in editing articles on living people should weigh in rather us having to deal with accusations like "those of individuals who engage in such practices as ensuring third-party referenced information is eliminated to bring articles in-line with the officially-sanctioned narrative of the Bahá’í Administrative Order and by their wholesale deletion of the articles related to the individual members of the Universal House of Justice under the pretenses (in my opinion wholly false) that these individuals do not meet notability standards." Smkolins (talk) 14:32, 20 September 2017 (UTC) I beleive the point of this thread is whether WP:NOTHERE applies to User:A35821361. I'd entertain discussion of that. User:A35821361 - care to chime in on those points? Smkolins (talk) 13:23, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Asima Chatterjee Google Doodle

Resolved
Article semi-protected for the duration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asima_Chatterjee

Lots of vandalism since this became a google doodle. I think IP editors should be blocked until the day is over at least. Autumn Wind (talk) 09:34, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

36 hours of semi has been applied. Anarchyte (work talk) 11:19, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Legal threats at Talk:James D. Zirin

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jzirin (talk · contribs), a WP:SPA who has twice posted a copyvio vanity page at James D. Zirin and James d zirin, is now making legal threats here. Mr. MacTidy (talk) 10:43, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I templated "User:Jzirin" per WP:TPO, since the pages getting deleted meant there was no live link to anything in the above post. I hope User:Mr. MacTidy doesn't mind. Hijiri 88 (やや) 10:59, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not a bit, thanks. Mr. MacTidy (talk) 11:01, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blocked for the legal threats, though they should've been blocked a while ago for disruptive editing anyway. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:SOCK and WP:SPA at torrent articles

There is an ongoing problem at these articles: IsoHunt, KickassTorrents and Torrent Project‎. Someone keeps on changing the URLs despite being asked not to do it and the articles being semi-protected recently. It's particularly annoying because it is being done by new user accounts which seem to be a WP:SPA for doing this. Help requested here.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation opened: please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Marylucygril. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 17:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The pages have also been semiprotected. If there is further disruption related to this, please advise at the SPI. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:29, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Still looking but I can tell you that at least one account is cross wiki spamming right now as seen here. We need this link added to the meta blacklist. Beetstra are you around?
Berean Hunter(talk) 19:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Berean Hunter: I'm around. Can you give me all domains? --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:07, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Are these the 4 domains in above tracking templates? --Dirk BeetstraT C 05:09, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes that's them, Dirk. I'll list the links within the SPI reports in the future per your comments there. Stewards have locked the accounts due to cross-wiki abuse.
Berean Hunter(talk) 12:53, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Berean Hunter: Added to meta. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:13, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Long-time repeated disruptive/POV editing by Ukrainian IP

Resolved
Six-month block

178.165.104.80 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (sample edits, all made after returning from their latest block: [139], [140], [141], [142], [143], [144], [145])

For more than a year now (since 27 August, 2016) the above IP, a static broadband connection geolocating to the Ukraine, has been on a relentless campaign to "Ukrainise" all articles even remotely connected to the Ukraine and people they see as being or having been Ukrainians, by changing names, and/or transliteration thereof, etc away from what is commonly used in English language literature and media, to the names and/or transliteration currently preferred in the Ukraine, such as Kiev -> Kyiv, Kievan Rus' -> Kyivan Rus Vladimir the Great -> Volodymyr the Great, making anachronistic changes of place of birth, such as changing the country of birth for historic individuals from Russian Empire to the Ukraine, a country that didn't exist until long after the times of those individuals, etc. And getting blocked four times for it over the past year (with the latest one being a three-month block on 27 April), hasn't stopped them, as shown by them being back at it again just a few days after returning from their latest block on 27 July, making the exact same attempts to Ukrainise articles again on 2, 3, 4, 7, 9, 20 and 31 August, and again on 12, 14, 18, 21, 22 and 23 September, showing no signs of ever stopping. All edits ever made by this IP are of the same kind, showing that it's a single individual doing it, meaning that there would be no collateral damage, so could we please have another block? For at least six months... - Tom Thomas.W talk 08:48, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • For a bit of a background to this see Talk:Kiev/naming, a collection of Requested move discussions spanning almost ten years, every one of which has ended in favour of keeping Kiev, and not changing to Kyiv. An outcome that a number of Ukrainian nationalists refuse to accept, in spite of being told repeatedly that we go by what WP:COMMONNAME says, so this isn't a simple content dispute but deliberate disruption, and an attempt to push the changes through by brute force. - Tom Thomas.W talk 12:38, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done Blocked for six months as requested to prevent further disruption. I note that although the IP address is owned by Maxnet Telecom, it appears to be allocated to Kharkivs'ka city council. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:27, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Libraheights97

Resolved
User blocked indefinitely

Libraheights97 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has an extensive history of disruptive editing on this encyclopedia. Since joining in August 2017, their continued edits at The Pinkprint have continued to be reverted, as it is not supported by reliable source. User was previously blocked for 72-hours for disruptive editing, however, any additional report is deemed "stale" or "unactionable," despite it being the same repeated pattern of editing. Also, at the Days of Our Lives page, the user continues to update information without changing the access date on the provided source; this alone proves that without updating the access date, the information could be questioned, as the information is provided after the provided access date. Despite multiple warnings (from myself and other editors), the user refuses to acknowledge this, and continues on this pattern of editing. Clearly, they are not here to edit constructively here at Wikipedia, and action should be taken. livelikemusic talk! 13:21, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Persistent vandalism from Michigan IP

Resolved
Rangeblocked

For over two months now, I (along with some other editors) have been reverting vandalism/disruptive edits from multiple IP addresses (although probably the same person). I report it, they get blocked; but usually are back within a few days making the same type of nonsense vandalism across the same type of articles. The IPs in question are (I may have missed a few):

All IPs have been warned multiple times and have been (temporarily) blocked at some point within the last two months. The question is, what else can be done? Can something more substantive or preventive be done to stop this persistent nonsense vandalism? According to here, all IPs geolocate to Muskegon County and specifically, per the coordinates at the source, the Mercy Health Hackley Campus in Michigan. Can a rangeblock be issued or what? Thanks. Drovethrughosts (talk) 16:08, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article ownership, edit warring over maintenance tags, and less-than-civil edit summaries by User:Megerflit

Resolved
User blocked indefinitely

The user in question is holding himself out as Nick Bougas. After revamping the article to his preferred version, he takes objection to any maintenance tags being placed on the article—especially anything pointing out that his edits may have affected the neutrality of the page. Further, his edit summaries, while they don't quite rise to the level of personal attacks, are far from civil. His level of ownership behaviour is such that he now is appealing to have the page deleted rather than have maintenance tags placed on it.

He's already been blocked for edit warring, and his first edits when back from the block were to start removing the tags. Clearly this is a situation for some administrator involvement. Can somebody else step in and talk to him? —C.Fred (talk) 05:14, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

C.Fred suggests that somebody talk to him, but having looked at his editing history I think it has gone beyond that stage. I have blocked the account indefinitely. If he is willing to totally change his ways he can make an unblock request, and if he isn't then he is never going to make constructive contributions to the project. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 19:18, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edit-warring on Dallas to keep a large chunk of data that doesn't belong there in the article

User:Texan44 has a dded a large chunk of economic data etc to the lead of Dallas, greatly expanding what was there previously, data that I removed since it's data for the entire Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex (which has its own article), not just for the city of Dallas which Dallas is about, but is being repeatedly added back again by Texan44, in spite of me telling them on their talk page, and in edit summaries, that is was removed for being outside the scope of the article it was added to, and pointing them to the correct article. I'm at three reverts now and can't revert them again, but I would appreciate if someone else could take a look at it, and make them understand, one way or the other. - Tom Thomas.W talk 21:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The information contained in the article has been present in that article for years. It is nothing new. It has not been added on a whim. It has existed previously for quite some time. I have merely updated that previously existing text, with verifiable and appropriate citations and links, to reflect the latest data. The text is nothing new being added but merely represents appropriate updates to long standing text and long standing existing data. The whole paragraph is prefaced with the fact that Dallas is the central economy and much of that data is only available in the format it is provided in (i.e. GDP data is not by city it is by MSA or metropolitan data). All of the data represented is that type of data. It is not an edit war except that this person has suddenly decided to make this into one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Texan44 (talkcontribs)
You expanded it, which is how I noticed it, and as I told you on your talk page, it doesn't matter if it has been there for years or not, it should go anyway, since it's outside the scope of the article. Dallas is about the city of Dallas only, not about the entire metroplex. Period. - TomThomas.W talk 21:20, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since this looks like a content dispute, the best thing to do is to discuss the matter at Talk:Dallas. I've recommened this to Texas44 when they contacted me at my talk page. —C.Fred (talk) 21:31, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Adding economic data for the entire metropolitan area to the lead and body of the article about the city of Dallas, which may be the largest city in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex but is still just a part of it (with roughly one third of the population of the metroplex if my memory serves me right...Correction: the population of Dallas is less than one fifth of the total population of the metroplex...), misleads readers, and makes them believe that the economy of Dallas is larger than it is, and is as misleading as very prominently featuring economic data for all of Greater Los Angeles in the lead of the article about the city of Los Angeles. Just to mention one example. - TomThomas.W talk 21:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
But there is no intent to mislead, so no administrative action is needed regarding the article. This is a matter for Talk:Dallas. If there's a 3RR violation after proper warning, you can take that to WP:AN3. —C.Fred (talk) 21:46, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying they're intentionally trying to mislead anyone, but the end result is the same whether it's intentional or not. - Tom Thomas.W talk 21:50, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated large deletion, with sockpuppetry

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Joeyburton489, with a history of 2 edits, deleted 3,075 bytes from Cognate, with the edit comment

There is no cognates within the same language. Cognates are words derived from different languages.

CodeCat reverted the change within an hour. Then Leonardomicheli297 (1 edit) repeated the deletion, with the identical change comment.

A sockpuppeteer is unlikely to engage in civil discussion. I am going to inform the user on both of these talk pages, but beyond that I request admin assistance here.--Thnidu (talk) 03:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The quacking is strong with these ones. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:06, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Johnsondrake2607 is probably the same editor too - see their restoration of Joeyburton489's reverted edit on Doublet (linguistics). Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:08, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The three accounts were created closely together in time:
  • Joeyburton489 - 18:37 19 September - 2 minutes before making their first edit, to Cognate [146]
  • Leonardomicheli - 19:53 19 September - 2 minutes before restoring Jayburton489's edit to Cognate [147]
  • Johnsondrake2607 - 22:23 19 September - 1 minute before restoring Joeyburton489's edit to Doublet (linguistics) [148]
Clearly sockpuppets created specifically for the purpose of restoring reverted edits. Can we get some blocks here, or do I really need to file an SPI for such an obvious and trivial case? (SPI being prety badly backed up). I don't think a CU is needed, given that my ears are bleeding from the quacking. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's pretty suspicious. Just the same, I can think of a sort of believable explanation for it. I asked Joey on his talk page for his own explanation. If someone else wants to block, that's fine, but I guess I'd like to hear what Joey says before I do it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:56, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just noting that the section in question directly contradicts the second sentence of the article's lede and none of its sources employ the term "cognate". – Uanfala 12:45, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, there hasn't been any response yet to my question on Joey's talk page. I didn't want to hand them any excuses, but my thinking was that this could be a class project of some sort. This might explain why a few new users would appear out of nowhere. It wouldn't excuse the edit warring, of course. I guess someone can ping me if the disruption continues. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand your caution, but I think it's highly unlikely to be a class, given the timing of the creation of the accounts. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:58, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: On doublet (linguistics),we see Salamanderman4197, Justjared2168Tommypinket3987‎ Jojimans347Johnnybling7431, and the ever-popular Johnsondrake2607. Pretty clear pattern here. Anmccaff (talk) 14:10, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Midght wanna throw @JoeSwatsonWattsonn5: in the creel, too. Anmccaff (talk) 02:18, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Additional socks have been found by the checkuser and confirmed. This thread can probably be closed.
Berean Hunter(talk) 15:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Flamestech's disruptive reversions, possible block evasion

User @Flamestech: is being disruptive in my opinion. They've messed with the infobox stats on the Second Italo-Ethiopian War ([149])([150]) (an area of the article that is subject to change via talkpage consensus; in spite of a suggestion that they go to the talk page they have refused to do and reverted my reversion with no explanation), have thrice reverted ([151])([152])([153])(a violation of the three revert rule in particularly concerning fashion) my attempts to post a deletion notice on an article they created, and attempted to cover up said deletion process by removing ([154]) the notice I left on their talk page. Their edits to the Second Italo-Ethiopian War are reminiscent of User:Krajoyn, a blocked editor known for their non-communicative edit-warring style who used many socks to try and force such edits upon the page. -Indy beetle (talk) 01:52, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • And they continue to change the Second Italo-Ethiopian War article ([155])([156])([157])([158]) without any explanation or discussion. This needs immediate attentions because there's nothing I can do without violating the 3-revert rule. -Indy beetle (talk) 03:14, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have blocked Flamestech for 24 hours for making four reverts on the Second Italo-Ethiopian War article within a 24 hour period per WP:3RR (0052, 0112, 0311, 0312 h on 23 Sep). Indy, if you haven't already done so, please post a comment on the article's talk page about why you disagree with Flamestech's edits. That way, one Flamestech's block has expired, they can join in the conversation and consensus can be established. If you are concerned about Flamestech being a sock, I suggest filing an WP:SPI. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 06:25, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • This person continues to make vandalism and to offend me with personal attacks (see here and here) with many sockpuppets that are already all blocked on italian Wikipedia for same vandalism (see here). --Holapaco77 (talk) 13:46, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have reverted the personal attack and given the IP a warning. If they continue, please let me know. As I stated above, I feel that this needs to be taken to SPI with a full case outlined there linking the alleged sock puppets. That said, I'm happy to defer to the judgement of other admins if they disagree with this suggestion and feel it warrants different action. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:51, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gross incivility

I am reporting User:Ashwani8888 and unfortunately I think a block may be necessary.

This user has frequently made personal insults, especially to User:Luke Stark 96, who requested my support in this matter.

For example, see a number of recent instances on User_talk:Ashwani8888, as well as using the word b****** in this (non-recent) edit here.

As two of the most frequent contributors to List of most viewed YouTube videos, User:Luke Stark 96 and I have also found the majority of the edits by this user on this page to be factually inaccurate.

I warned this user I would report him if further insults occurred, and since then this user has made two further personal attacks. I have left a message on this user's talk page about this report. Tcamfield (talk) 22:27, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(Non-administrator comment) In addition to the PAs, I am concerned about the intent to edit war stated here [159]. Tornado chaser (talk) 23:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bastard" is not the same as "bitch", but still. Sure these are personal attacks and I can warn them for it. More importantly, can I see some evidence of those supposed invented numbers? That would be a more useful thing, I think. Drmies (talk) 00:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The connotation & severity of "bastard" is culturally dependent. It is particularly severe an insult in South Asian cultures; far less so in other parts of the Anglosphere. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 02:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Even if culturally dependant, and the edit Tornado chaser highlighted is over the line and demonstrates a battleground, retaliatory mentality. But I agree with Drmies that a warning is appropriate with the understanding that continuation would likely result in a block. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:23, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The user has since edited my first paragraph (on this page!) with his own message. I will leave it unaltered so you can see. Tcamfield (talk) 07:10, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

While this insult got the thread going, discussing its strength won't get anyone anywhere. The alleged factual inaccuracy of the user's edits is a pressing problem in an encyclopedia, and it's a pretty serious accusation. I have yet to see proof of it. If it turns out that the edits were not in fact inaccurate, then we may well be dealing with a seriously disgruntled editor who might actually have a case. So, Tcamfield, please provide some evidence. It needs no arguing that your opponent is acting like a jerk here. User:Ashwani8888, this idiotic edit alone might get you blocked. Drmies (talk) 15:32, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is not something which I feel is outrageous vandalism which is why I only mentioned it in passing, but it is factually inaccurate and these sort of things mean that most of the user's edits have had to be reverted. This user edits List of most viewed YouTube videos and most of their edits involve moving "Shape of You" (currently 7th on the list) as it climbs up the list. (You are meant to update all the videos at once for consistency, but that's beside the point as many editors make this mistake and its forgiveable.) Unfortunately this user is too hasty on the edits. It is hard to show because the number of views is a moving target which can only be shown to be correct or incorrect at the time, but an example is here which was edited by this user 36 hours ago to show Shape of You as above Shake It Off. Shape of You only overtook Shake It Off about 12-16 hours ago. To see this now you have to find the two videos on YouTube and note the lead of about 2.8 million views at time of writing, then go on a website like kworb and note that Shape of You is gaining c.5.5-6m views per day, while Shake It Off is down the list gaining just c.1m views per day. A bit of maths puts the overtake at about 12-16 hours ago. I can also confirm that the overtake was about 14 hours ago as I saw that the view counts were very close at the time.
It's a slightly laughable point compared to some bad cases of vandalism (and I certainly wouldn't call for a block for just this!) but as the page gets thousands of visits a day, it does have to be reverted which is how the whole threatening of edit wars and bad language etc kicked off. I am now of the opinion that User:Ashwani8888 deserves one more chance as they have shown some willingness to behave amenably with their latest comment on their talk page. Tcamfield (talk) 21:17, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm a little concerned about the WP:OR mentioned in the above comment. That being said, the reported editor really needs to knock it off, and the actual relative "strength" of the insult they used is completely immaterial. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:20, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I'll say that's not how we source the data in the article. In this instance, it's just the only way of showing what happened a number of hours after the fact. It does say in WP:OR: "(This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards.)"Tcamfield (talk) 22:53, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

He's doing the same thing on page List of most liked YouTube videos, for example here and here. Shape of You hasn't got 12.39 million likes, now the song has 12.35 million likes--Luke Stark 96 (talk) 09:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Violation of topic ban by User:Johnvr4

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At [160], [161], and [162] Johnvr4 has violated his topic ban - to avoid editing subjects connected to weapons and Japan, broadly construed - twice within about 24 hours of its imposition. He also appears to have said at his talk page that he intends to continue editing irrespective of the topic ban [163]. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:05, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Based on his airing of woes at [164], the last thing he should be doing right now is editing Wikipedia. Support an indef block. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:21, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support indef block, as clearly WP:NOTHERE. -- RoySmith(talk) 01:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blocked for six months. When someone's been here for 5½ years, it's rather a stretch to say that he's NOTHERE. Since all his previous blocks, put together, add up to ten days and change, going straight to an indef block is extreme, and I don't think this is an extreme situation that needs an extreme response. Since he's allowed to appeal in six months, I figured I'd just do a block for that long; he may appeal it as soon as the block expires. Nyttend (talk) 02:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair to him, even though I have no reason to be since he openly lambasted me for his own actions, an appeal will certainly fail if he remains blocked the entire duration of his topic ban. Regards, — MoeEpsilon 16:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That escalated quickly. I was going to propose leniency based on having just been kicked in the face by Hurricane Irma, but when someone's been here 5½ years, it's rather a stretch to say they don't know how a topic ban works, especially when another admin made such an effort to explain it and they posted this diatribe in response to a warning to stop violating it. Citing WP:IAR as a justification for ban evasion is a new one for me. I don't know the history here but in the interest of the leniency I started talking about, can I propose significantly shortening this block (say, 2 weeks?) since it's a first for evasion, with the topic ban timer reset from the end of the block? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:07, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can appreciate your motivation, Ivanvector, but the messages I saw posted give great pause to endorse any shortening of the block period. Assuming good faith, someone with this editor's RL challenges probably shouldn't be concerning themselves with the project. Should they be able to assemble some reasonable request I might be persuaded to reconsider. Tiderolls 18:42, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Evasion" really isn't the right word, I think; "ban evasion" to me means getting around a ban, not outright rejecting it and editing as if it didn't exist. IAR really is okay for certain ban-ignoring or -evading situations, e.g. if you're I-banned from someone who starts replacing the Main Page with obscenities, it's perfectly fine to leave a note at WP:BN requesting emergency desysop for the obviously compromised account. However, saying "I won't pay attention to this ban because it's intended to prevent me from improving Wikipedia" is quite different, since there's already consensus that your edits aren't an improvement. If this editor were somehow unaware of the ban or unaware that he was violating it, a short block would be appropriate after a warning, but since he's outright said that he's going to ignore it, we're in a different situation here. Bans are placed when we think you can't contribute positively in some manner but you shouldn't be blocked because you can still contribute overall, and if you demonstrate that the ban isn't preventing disruption, it's time to escalate to the next level of preventiveness. Nyttend (talk) 00:07, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you, mostly. My only concern as a disinterested observer to this drama is that it appears that Johnvr4 is in exceptionally reasonable circumstances to be blowing off steam, for which we usually grant some latitude so long as no disruption is occurring, and I don't think it was outside of his diatribe (and before he was warned). Yeah, he swore up and down that he's definitely not going to respect the ban, but we didn't really give him a chance. I guess Tide rolls makes a good point: if Johnvr4 comes back after some reasonable time and/or after their probably very serious real-life concerns are under control and makes a reasonable unblock request, we can talk about it then. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't be opposed to a reasonable unblock request. Nyttend (talk) 00:13, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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MjolnirPants and Mr rnddude

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Section header refactored. You don't have to argue your positions in the heading. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:57, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was hoping not to come here, however, the accusations levelled by MjolnirPants at me yestereday were such that I have no other recourse for action other than to take it to a noticeboard and either be sanctioned, or have those accusations [read: aspersions] addressed. That is, at least true, as MjolnirPants has asked me to kindly fuck off from his talk page if I only intended to accuse him. His exact words to me were; That being said, the meaning of the last sentence you couldn't quite parse is that I actually have better things to do than sit here and be accused of shit by another editor with an axe to grind. So if you have something different to talk about, feel free. However, if that's all you're going to do, kindly fuck off. I replied here and retracted what could reasonably be interpreted to be a personal attack here. The reason I replied was that I had entirely missed his accusations against me and that I noticed numerous factual errors in his post. I did not reply to further accuse him of misconduct, though, I am convinced it was misconduct and mentioned it a couple times anyway. I even made a note that we would not agree before I rudely fuck[ed] off.
If you look at the thread, you will probably notice that things get off badly immediately, but, I am actually only here for one post of his. This is because, if the accusations in his first post are accurate, then I deserve a 48 hour block for edit-warring and exerting ownership. If they are not, then the reverse is true and MjolnirPants has earned a 48 hour block for NPA, aspersions and incivility. I hope neither happens, rather, I'd like a warning instead. That warning would have to be delivered by an administrator or experienced editor other than myself as I consider myself banned from MjolnirPants' talk page - per this plain comment here - not to level bad-faith accusations about misconduct against good-faith editors.

  • The issues I have;
  • MjolnirPants seems to be under the impression that attributing bad faith actions and motivations to another editor, simply for being pulled up for a poorly thought out comment of his, is an acceptable way to treat other editors. I absolutely do not. That comment was the casting of aspersions against a group of individuals on AN and then his replies to me were casting aspersions about my conduct. It might also be important to note that, whether or not the claims are verifiable (I don't know if they are), this sort of abuse is almost never acceptable.
  • The backstory here is that I had hatted a subthread of toxicity. I had included MjolnirPants' analysis in this hat because of the assertion that I think the arguments in support of this unblock request are weak at best, and dishonest at worst. MjolnirPants made a partial revert of my edit and made the bold claim that move collapse: that analysis comes from an involved party, but there's nothing untoward in it whatsoever. I reverted, pointed out that this was untrue, and I then went to MjolnirPants' talk page to explain to them why it was untrue and ask them to remove the NPA and then move the analysis from the hat. I also advised them that their analysis appeared unwise and that it might be best to leave it hatted. This is entirely because of the obvious bias/POV they have with regards to the thread itself. I also don't consider an involved individual to be the appropriate person to be offering the advice. Instead, and I had completely missed this at the time, I was accused of edit-warring and of taking AN hostage (OWNERSHIP) to suit my sensibilities. I do not believe either of these accusations are true and believe that the fact that I had not re-reverted, nor forced their analysis out, to be demonstrative of this fact.
  • Lastly, I would like to ask uninvolved editors and admins to take a look at my conduct and MjolnirPants' conduct at WP:AN, User talk:MjolnirPants, and possibly here, and tell myself or MjolnirPants whether or how either of our conduct might have been unacceptable. Mr rnddude (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Addressing the accusations MjolnirPant's has made;
  • Thank you for your time, and I apologize for bringing this here. I hope not to have to do so again.
  • Side-note; I have left MjolnirPants a notification for this thread. Mr rnddude (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I asked you to fuck off of my talk page because all you were doing was stirring up drama. I figured you just had a hair up your butt about something and that as long as I nipped that particular bit of drama off, you could get back to happily editing articles, well away from that jackass, MjolnirPants. But then I saw this, and realized that the only thing you've been doing on WP for the past two weeks is stirring up drama. So I guess I'm not surprised that you felt the need to escalate further. Oh, and you weren't accused of anything. I asked you not to edit war, and I said you don't have the right to hold my analysis hostage to your own personal views of what I should or should not have said. I said that in response to this edit summary, in which you strongly implied that you would keep edit warring your hat back in until I caved to your demands. Pretty much everything you've said here is over-the-top hyperbole. Why don't you go edit an article instead of stirring up more shit? Seriously, WP needs less drama, not more. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:32, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, you asked me not to continue to edit war. Which means that as far as you were concerned, I had started edit-warring. I didn't take ownership of your analysis, and you said I took ownership of the page, not your comment. I did not imply any kind of edit-warring, I asked that you keep it hatted or strike the obvious incivility. Amazing, you somehow think you can read my mind as well. I looked at my last two weeks of edits; DelRev, RfA, ANI, AN, my talk page, a B-class review (still incomplete) and about 40 edits worth of anti-vandalism. So, on top of everything else, now you're blatantly lying about my last two weeks of editing which encompasses a total of about 70 edits (11th Sept - 25th Sept). I'm also waiting for a GA review to be completed for Burebista. TheWizardman is a little bit busy and has asked me to wait a few days. I have absolutely no problem doing so. Yes, I've been more active at AN/I and AN in the past week, if I have stirred up any other drama (aside from this) please point it out and I will endavour not to repeat it. I do admit, however, that my most contributed to page is AN/I with, somehow, more than a thousand edits. Additionally, from my Xtools, my contributions for the past month are 175 edits; 46 to articles (anti-vandalism mostly), 62 to user talk (part antivandalism, part my talk page queries, part MP's talk page, and part other), and 58 to Wikispace (RfA, ANI, AN, DelRev, etc). Not great, but, significantly better than suggested above. Mr rnddude (talk) 23:04, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I request an admin close this thread, by WP:IAR if nothing else. The excessive rules-lawyering over the Hidden Tempo stuff really needs to stop. These editors should voluntarily leave each other alone and go somewhere else. I also note the essay WP:PUNITIVE which suggests against the claim that somebody must be punished for what appears to be some editors having a heated discussion (and saying "fuck" on several occasions). power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:52, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Honestly, can we just not? Neither of you appear to have made a mainspace edit in several days. Oh look, Self-flagellation needs quite a bit of cleaning up, and Snarl is a poor neglected stub, as is Self-righteousness. GMGtalk 23:00, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your comments. Power; I'm not overly interested in the HT stuff, I wasn't involved in the thread until it came across AN/I and I hatted a series of comments that contained sanctionable material. I had hoped that would resolve the conflict, not create a new one. GMG; you are probably right, however, I do not believe I have behaved towards MP anywhere nearly as poorly as he has to me. I really would like that warning. If any action needs to be taken against me, then I have to cop it as well. Mr rnddude (talk) 23:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dude. WP:FUCKIT. What exactly here is supposed to be causing a material detriment to the project that's going to outweigh the time spent on exactly this thread? This looks an awful lot like a problem born and raised in project and user spaces, and doesn't affect the actual encylopedia at all. Consider turning off revert notifications. It helps tremendously. GMGtalk 23:13, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to just "thank" GMG for this comment using the button; I want to advertise my thanks publicly. He is saying smart things that should be listened to. Let things go. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:17, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How do you turn off revert notifications? I usually kept it when I did NPP two years ago and had to undo newbie editors removing CSD templates. It's not causing damage to any articles, and yes, I suppose, that's the most important thing. Mr rnddude (talk) 23:18, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo. Uncheck "Edit revert". — nihlus kryik (talk) 23:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Since it came up, I just want to say that unchecking "Edit revert" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo is the best thing I every did. Used to be every time I saw that red notification box, my blood pressure would go up. Editing's much more relaxing now. EEng 22:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know exactly what you mean. I had to turn it off when it started driving my blood pressure up (figuratively -- I hope), but then eventually had to turn it back on again for reasons I honestly can't recall (read: "senior moment"). Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:34, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IPs harassing an editor

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@Jim1138:2 similar IPs (175.136.227.216 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 175.140.181.113 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)) from the Singapore area are adding warning and block templates to their own and each others talk pages and edit warring to restore them even after being warned not to, these templates have the signatures of other users/admins, example [165]. It appears that these IPs are all the same person and are not doing any editing except for copying the talk pages of vandals onto there own talk pages. The IPs are also making uncivil comments on the talk page of User:Jim1138 and edit warring to restore them as well. Tornado chaser (talk) 15:19, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dealt with by Alex Shih. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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I am experiencing a personal attack

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  • Which Guilopez is has said Here's another saying for you. You may hear it in school tomorrow. "It's your own time you're wasting". Guliolopez (talk) 20:01, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

,which I don't think is a friendly saying to a newcomers and false accusations. I am feeling bullied by him which I don't think your would say something like that to a real person on the street.

  • This nature is unacceptable and an abuse of powers.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishRepublic5 (talkcontribs)

As unreadable as this is, I see no personal attacks. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:35, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I personally believe that he should not say stuff like that to me saying you may hear it in school tomorrowthis is giving me negative information .

@IrishRepublic5: You have an interesting perspective on personal attacks. Please read the following comment: I see you may think you are funny but no one here is laughing at you ,I see you are highly ignorant man with lack of sense of humor.which you may need to get out more ,The way you talk says it all. Do you consider that a personal attack? Lepricavark (talk) 20:47, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Basing articles on a person's Linkedin / Twitter accounts

THis article Jen Royle disclosing a person's birth date and other personal details based on her Linkedin / Twitter account. Where do we stand on this? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SELFPUBGMGtalk 17:48, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Have nominated for delete
The other question is where do we stand on WP:OUTING? Is adding details about a person based on their personal linkedin, FB, and twitter account outing?
Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:55, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm... not sure outing applies unless you're talking about an editor. As a general rule, the information is okay if it is otherwise public information on a moderately public figure, like something a reporter posted on their public social media. This information is sometimes removed by request as a courtesy, but if they've put it out there themselves, it's only a courtesy, and not an outright privacy issue. GMGtalk 18:03, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I would add that the key to selfpub there is that it needs to be mundane personal details, the kind for which self published material would be a (and perhaps the only in many cases) reliable source. GMGtalk 18:06, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I would say no. They published it (presumably) on the selfpub site, thus it's not private info. We shouldn't be repeating it (WP:RS) but it's not outing. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:27, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We shouldn't be repeating it That's not quite right. If the material is sufficiently mundane so as to fall under SELFPUB, then the self published source can be treated as a primary source, in accordance with guidance at WP:PRIMARY. GMGtalk 18:50, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia:Harassment#Posting_of_personal_information we say "Posting... "personal information" is harassment, unless that person has voluntarily posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Wikipedia... This applies to the personal information of both editors and non-editors." From what I understand we only allow personal information based on high quality sources not a subjects's personal accounts. If someone was to create an article about a Wikipedian based on their FB, Twitter, and Linkedin details that would definitely be outing and I guess the question is do we want to apply this standard to none editors? If we do not want to apply this standard to none editors than we need to remove "This applies to the personal information of both editors and non-editors." from the outing policy. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • An article on a Wikipedian based on (nothing but) LinkedIn etc. will be speedily deleted--either as A7 or as a BLP/outing violation. PS Doc, it's time wrote you up... Drmies (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:Drmies not sure to what you refer? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, your cigar lounge seems to be taking off and might pass the GNG... Drmies (talk) 20:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        • It was an interesting link, a cigar lounge that tries to look upscale, but has staff, or at least web site developers, that can't spell "Andalusian" right, and believe that Davidoff is located in Geneva, NY, probably never even having heard of Switzerland. - TomThomas.W talk 20:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
          • Ah certainly. Yes and if I add to my twitter account that I own it than that will make it legit right :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is there some reason the AfD is not sufficient and we need an AN/I as well? This has the appearance of heavy-handedness.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:43, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The harassment policy does not apply to subjects of biographies. It cannot, because as written it prohibits any personal info of anyone unless they post it on Wikipedia first. Which would mean most personal life sections and basic biographical info. This has been pointed out to the people who have been arguing over it for ages, suffice to say ignore that part of the policy if the person is the subject of an article. Only in death does duty end (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks User:Only in death I have tagged that line in the OUTING policy as dubious and will ignore going forwards. Will trim personal links based on them simply not being reliable instead. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
DJ: Just to be clear, as noted above, social media is considered reliable for mundane personal details as a primary source when they meet WP:SELFPUB and are treated in accordance with WP:PRIMARY. I don't mean to belabor the point, but if you get a mind to start removing anything that cites social media for a birthday or an alma mater you're gonna have a bad time. GMGtalk 21:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Okay thanks. I would argue that the article was "primarily on such sources" however. Stuff like "She is single" supposedly based on a tweet still makes me a little uncomfortable. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
primarily on such sources Yes, but that's expressly forbidden by WP:PRIMARY, thus the PRIMARY compliance caveat. GMGtalk 21:52, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's worth pointing out that the statement "both editors and non-editors" in WP: Outing is a wikilink to WP: HNE, which in turn says "Content and sourcing that comply with the biographies of living persons policy do not violate this policy;" --Kyohyi (talk) 21:12, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that policy says "dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object". I do not feel a single tweet counts as widely published or a reasonable assumption that the subject does not object. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If the Tweet is from the subject, then I disagree. I think that "widely" only applies to "published by reliable sources", and not to "by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." If a person tweets their birthday, they've put it out onto the Internets with tacit permission to republish, and so it should be acceptable to use on Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:13, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Doc James: if a person uses their verified Twitter account to tweet their birthday, is it acceptable for Wikipedia to use it? Some of your comments above imply that you do not agree, but it is not clear why. To me at any rate. MPS1992 (talk) 19:42, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. It is acceptable, and routinely done. GMGtalk 20:07, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of Star Wars films and television series

At List of Star Wars films and television series, 68.199.145.237 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has been persistently changing the status of two films from not canon to canon without sourced backing: Edit 1, Edit 2, Edit 3, Edit 4, Edit 5, Edit 6, Edit 7, Edit 8. Myself and another user have reverted them each time, and we left three warnings on their talk page. At this point, it's disruptive, and I am unsure if they will stop of their own accord. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 22:18, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edit 9, Edit 10 after an additional warning after the ANI notice. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 22:30, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ought to be blocked. Sometimes, blocking is the only way to get through such individuals. GoodDay (talk) 22:31, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The IP has made the change an additional eighteen times since GoodDay's comment here. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 23:41, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's up to 20 times now. IP has ignored both a soft and a hard EW warning. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:56, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
IP has been blocked by Malcolmxl5 and article restored to status quo ante. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:59, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
2x(edit conflict) Yep, blocked for 31 hours. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:02, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing copyright and article re-creation issues

Rajasekharan Parameswaran has been uploading oil paintings claimed to be by the user, permissions need to be sent to OTRS, also according to talk page, they have been trying multiple times to create article about self. Did however send an email to OTRS ticket # 2016102610000483 to identify self, ticket validity seems highly suspect. Bringing here as some Administrative action seems warranted. - FlightTime (open channel) 04:16, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jcc: As you probably realized, the indenitty of the user is not the issue, being the apparent copyright holder of all these paintings, explicit permission must be given via OTRS and must be released under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported and GNU Free Documentation license or Wikimedia can not use or host the images. - FlightTime (open channel) 15:09, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yep- my mistake. jcc (tea and biscuits) 17:58, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since we have evidence that this user is the copyright holder, there is no copyright issue here. This user has as much right to release the painting as I do a picture that I took with my camera. See how we've handled this with Jerry Avenaim and commons:User:Jerry Avenaim~commonswiki with File:Phil 1.jpg, File:William Shatner.jpg, and other files in Commons:Category:Photographs by Jerry Avenaim. Nyttend (talk) 23:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Nyttend: None of their uploads were tagged as OTRS received, just that their identity had been confirmed on their user pages and that ticket (IMO) proves nothing, but so be it. I can revert all my edits to the files if needed, but this seems to be real shotty OTRS work in my opinion. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:54, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Have you seen the contents of the ticket? [This isn't a rhetorical "stupid, of course the ticket confirms it"; I've not seen it either] Unless you're disagreeing with an OTRS agent's conclusion that the ticket confirms identity, there's no issue here. Once we know that you're the copyright holder, there's no reason to dispute anything copyright-related; Rajasekharan Parameswaran has the right to upload Rajasekharan Parameswaran's creations, just as User:Nyttend has the right to upload [my real name]'s photographs, and if we've confirmed that User:Rajasekharan Parameswaran is Rajasekharan Parameswaran, the user's uploads shouldn't be questioned on copyright grounds. Nyttend (talk) 00:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just chalk it up to having my nose somewhere it shouldn't have been. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

197.48.107.245

197.48.107.245 has made repeated vandalism edits to Nokia, currently at 4th warning, and additionally made a personal attack against Prolog, see this version of the user's talk page. RegistryKey(RegEdit) 22:02, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, an IPv4 address that is located in Egypt. They seem to have stopped what they were doing at 21:11, which is now four hours ago. If they resume, report them to WP:AIV. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 00:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am being harassed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, can you please help me? I am being harassed by the User:Beyond My Ken. This user has recently reverted all of my edits without any reason [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171]. Furthermore, this user has engaged in WP:PERSONAL here and again. Even more, I have been accused of being a sock puppet of a banned user "English Patriot Man" see here. This all started a few days ago with his revert here with the reason given as "sock of English PAtriot Man". I would appreciate some assistance with this very tedious problem I am facing with a very unapproachable Wikipedia user. Thank you.--Henry P. Smith (talk) 01:07, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note, I wasn't notified of this, but I am aware of it, so no harm no foul. Beyond My Ken (talk)
While I was posting this I was notified. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:16, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the evidence for Henry P. Smith being the latest in the long line of sockpuppets of User:English Patriot Man is robust, and @Dianna:, who is rather an expert on this particular sockmaster, filed the SPI some days ago -- but it has yet to see any action. The report is here, and since some days have gone by, I guess I'll go and try to provide some more evidence, as I did for the last sockpuppet User:Sein und Zeit.
In the meantime, as I noted on the SPI and here, the behaviors are the same, and Dianna has pointed out the overlaps. This is a quacking no-brainer that needs to be wrapped up tout suite. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:15, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My ping above didn't work, so, @Diannaa:Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:20, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you were notified of it, check your talk page. Right from the get go of my input to the Erwin Rommel article you have tried to impoverish me in every way possible. You are supposed to follow Wikipedia rules and not be typing stuff like "In the meantime, you're not getting that photo of Rommel at the top of any Wikipedia article, if I have anything to do with it, any more then you were successful in cleansing the reputation of Houston Stewart Chamberlain in your last identities as User:Robinson98354 and User:Sein und Zeit." That is a) a direct threat and constitutes a personal attack b) an accusation which is not founded on anything more than an alleged few articles that I have edited on which a previously banned user also did. You don't have the final say in articles and think that it's only what you say goes. I have presented evidence that you are quite clearly stalking me and reverting every single edit I make. You don't have the right to do that and is against the rules of Wikipedia. I think you should step back and have a read of WP:POLICY because you have broken many rules with the way you have been behaving towards me. You have even accused me of being a previously banned user "English Patriot Man" but I'm not even English!!! I'm Polish and live in the UK.--Henry P. Smith (talk) 01:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per my comment above, I've added additional evidence to the SPI. If an SPI clerk happens to read this, it would be great if some action could be taken on this sockmaster's latest disruptive sock. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:31, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blocked by Alex Shih, and case closed by SPI clerk. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:42, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Revdel

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, I'm not sure if I'm missing something but this, this and this should be revdelled shouldn't it ?,
I only ask because I emailed Oversight an hour ago and so far nothing's been done so incase I'm actually missing something I figured I'd ask here and get some clarification, Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 16:56, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Good grief I need a shower now. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:00, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks RickinBaltimore, If only "unseeing" things was possible!, God knows why oversight didn't do jack all but anyway thanks for doing that much appreciated, Cheers, –Davey2010Talk 17:05, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

AfD spam / vandalism on the rise?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I recently banned User:INDIAN_REVERTER whose first edits were a bunch of rapid-fire meaningless votes in AfDs. Today I noticed a similar pattern with another brand-new user, User:Leodikap, whose first edits were to a bunch of seemingly-unrelated AfDs. This is either some sock manifestation, or just plain vandalism. Anybody else notice this pattern? -- RoySmith (talk) 14:58, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't notice much of such a pattern, although I may be forgetting some AfDs among all that I close. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:05, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Right, I remember that account. I'm pretty sure it's sockpuppetry; building up AfD credibility by !voting the right way on easy cases with the intent of later !voting in an AfD that's important to the sockpuppeteer. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 19:43, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This was one of the issues with Light2021 (now indef blocked for exactly this) and who also socked, there's a few sections in the archives. —SpacemanSpiff 04:51, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and indef blocked User:Leodikap, to reduce the damage to AfD (at least all their bogus comments will show up as from a blocked user). I've left access to their own talk page and email. If it turns out this was a mistake, it's easy to unblock them if they request. -- RoySmith (talk) 11:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Repeated re-creation of promotional user page

This user's user page has been deleted three times. He continues to re-create it in the same form. He's been clearly told what's what on his talk page: Noyster (talk), 09:02, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted, indeffed; this user is clearly not here to improve Wikipedia. MER-C 09:29, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion on edits by new editor

Hi Editor Zocklandy insists on adding this table to a number of articles here and a few others in the Portuguese WP (where an admin has reverted it and is keeping an eye on his edits). Despite Zocklandy messages on his/ her talk page] and multiple reverts in the Portuguese WP and here in the English, the editor does not even bother to acknowledge/ respond or discuss. The problem with the edit is that

  • It contradicts all that is generally known of the composition of the Brazilian population, claiming that the French are the primary contributor of DNA factors in the Norte region (52%); Italy the primary one in the Nordeste region (61%). It takes a few minutes to confirm that the French are nowhere near a significant group anywhere in Brazil, the Italians are indeed so, but in the south. Those figures are not stated but are somehow extracted from the information in the source that the user is citing. Does this in itself constitute WP:OR?
  • It is at odds with the genereal tone of the artcile, which is of a generalist nature. Tables such as "European and Midle eastern lineages contributions to Y-haplogroup in Brazilian population" and "European and Midle eastern lineages contributions to R1b1a-M269 sub-haplogroups in Brazilian population" and the text in this section simply are way above the tone of the article.

I request input from fresh eyes on this one. The user is being duly notified. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 09:13, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:Impedehim has made some intriguing edits.

Not sure what it's all about. Possibly a Nothere. Maybe some sort of sampler/edit bot. I don't know. Impedehim (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). (Impede him?). Admins can see Wikipedia:Impedehim, deleted as a test page by RHawthorn. I deleted User:Impedehim (WVS). The tagged for deletion under U5 User:Impedehim looks like a Signpost article. Wikipedia:Dahomean Articles has the same content, apparently a fake Signpost article. As is Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives/Lacaidonian. There are more examples, but you get the drift. If someone else could take a look. I dropped them a note saying I was coming here. Will add the permalink.Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:11, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dlohcierekim:--I have moved Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Archives/Lacaidonian to his user-space.That's outright disruptive.Since,I don't have the PMover right on this acc., please delete the corresponding redirect.Regards:)Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 18:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have given the editor a final warning, and I really do mean it to be final. If I see one more stupid edit I will be very likely to block the account. Please feel welcome to alert me if you see any more nonsense before I do. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 18:31, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • I wonder if we're the subject of a machine-writing experiment here? The deleted text has that disjointed feel to it. GoldenRing (talk) 09:47, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Suspicious links

Two users, Memenow (talk · contribs) and Memenow2 (talk · contribs) have created userpages with links pointing to Google drive files. I don't know what's behind the links, and am concerned what could be. Home Lander (talk) 00:36, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Users reported to WP:AIV and pages tagged for speedy deletion. Jon Kolbert (talk) 00:46, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality dispute + SPA + possible COI on journalist Kevin Deutsch

Hello,

I'd really prefer to be taking this to a different noticeboard to chat it out, but my compatriot has both indicated they are no longer interested in discussion and is also aggressively reverting. This relates to the article Kevin Deutsch (my preferred revision), a journalist and author who has been accused of being highly sloppy about sourcing and over-anonymizing events to the point of having no relation with the original event (at best), or of repeat fabrication and fraud (at worst).

User:Ballastpointed is aggressively editing Kevin Deutsch to fit his spin (sample diffs: 1, 2, 3, all within the space of ~24 hours). Ballastpointed is a single purpose account whose sole goal on Wikipedia seems to be to communicate what an awesome guy Deutsch is. He's denied being Deutsch himself or a friend/associate (diff), but he has claimed to be a super-expert on Deutsch (diff). At first, Ballastpointed was productively responding on the talk page to pings and somewhat ratcheting his claims downward - allowing hostile material to stand but rephrasing it, and many of these edits have been left in place (e.g. including this article which discusses the New York Daily News investigation into Deutsch's work). However, he's since gone back to just plain reverting to a version that is, in my opinion, not neutral (doesn't reflect the majority of the sources) and overly relies upon self-published sources (extensively citing Deutsch's website and Deutsch's personal explanations for the accusations against him in-line with other sources; example diff), and has thrown in WP:PEACOCK terms as well ("award-winning" in the lede, etc.).

I have done my part in talking it out on the talk page (see Talk:Kevin Deutsch), and offered to bring in a third opinion or discuss on a noticeboard (diff). Since Ballastpointed has responded to pings before, he saw this. He has not replied. If he isn't going to participate, there's no point in bringing this to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard or Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. (I have also attempted to offer productive avenues for Ballastpointed to apply his preferred slant - if he could find some source, any source, that is not self-published but supports Deutsch's view of things. He has not really provided one, however; the closest is attempting to interpret the NY Daily News article as an exoneration of Deutsch, which it isn't.)

Note that this is a WP:BLP, so Ballastpointed is certainly correct that there should be a very high standard set for negative material. Unfortuantely for Deutsch, there is reams of negative material in reliable sources, and very little supportive material. His "15 year career in journalism" is not actually particularly notable and would likely be deleted as a stand-alone article (any more than any other of the many freelance journalists out there), and while Deutsch's own personal explanations and excuses for the sourcing confirmation problems deserve to be mentioned, they do not deserve to be taken as anything more than a denial - certainly in no way as "evidence" that somehow the investigations into him were faulty. Additionally, Ballastpointed has attempted to highlight the many small and noncontroversial articles that Deutsch wrote that weren't challenged, and imply this is somehow an exoneration of Deutsch. But these articles are simply not very notable nor interesting to talk about - as the Washington Post wrote, "Most mainstream news organizations would fire a journalist for a single instance of inventing a source or a quote, let alone dozens and dozens of them."

I ask that Ballastpointed be informed that he needs to comply with Wikipedia policies such as WP:SPS, WP:NPOV and WP:RS, or else have the page protected. If he wants to submit edit requests (a la COI accounts), that would be acceptable. If he doesn't respond at all and keeps edit warring, then he should be blocked. SnowFire (talk) 02:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sir,
You’ve repeatedly deleted my contributions to the page, adding innacuriate/non/factual synopses, ignoring due weight requirements, and inserting language that violates Wiki’s living persons policy. You are a newcomer to the page, and began your work here by reversing my contributions. Since then, I have attempted to correct the erroneous paraphrasing you’ve inserted, and to restore information you removed that was favorable to Mr. Deutsch. Your attempts to construe every line of coverage in the worst possible light deserves to be challenged, and it will continue to be, by myself and others. Perhaps most egregiously, you removed a NY Observer article written by Mr. Deutsch, which contains an extensive, closely reasoned defense/rebuttal. Additionally,
you removed key parts of his response to the Times’ findings and the favorable “no red flags” language in the Daily News finding. In short, you’ve removed everything exculpatory it favorable to Mr. Deutsch, and I submit that you, sir, are in fact the one with a conflict of interest and obvious agenda here.
Wherever there is an allegation, there should be a defense of that allegation if that defense has been published, which it has been. This is how the living person’s policy and due weight work. These are unsubstantiated allegations. The coverage has focused on the same series of allegations. Those allegations take up a majority of this article. I can’t imagine what Moreno you’re hoping to achieve here, short of libel.
Adding quotes about racism from David Simon—who last year used the n-word on Twitter and got a lot of heat for it—is indicative of how far you’re willing to go to libel this writer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ballastpointed (talkcontribs) 02:43, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Non-administrator comment) If you are going to accuse anyone of libel, you should be familier with WP:NLT, I am not saying you are trying to make a legal threat, just reminding you how things can be interpreted. Tornado chaser (talk) 03:01, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ballastpointed returned to the prior edit war pretty much immediately upon acknowledging this discussion, as well as having previously been warned and asked to build a consensus first. For that reason, I gave him a week block so as to slow down the edit war. If he expresses that he intends to stay on the talk pages going forward, and avoid editing against consensus, anyone may unblock. --Jayron32 03:27, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, we also have a sock/meatpuppet issue. User:AlexVegaEsquire, who is also a single-purpose account whose only activity on Wikipedia has been to edit the Kevin Deutsch article (and create the original, fawning version of it), has suddenly appeared again after the block and has the exact same opinions as Ballastpointed (diff). Note that I'm not the first person; others, over a months-long period, have been attempting to have the article reflect the slant seen in the news media, but AlexVegaEsquire was the one editing it back earlier (as can be seen from notices on his talk page and his edit history). We may need the same treatment for this account as Ballastpointed: defend your points on the talk page in a style consistent with Wikipedia. SnowFire (talk) 14:51, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the previous editor and think Wikipedia admin should resolve the issue of whether or not SnowFire's removals should be restored, specifically the subject's denial of the allegations in the lead. Third party resolution needed. I am all for keeping this article current and reflective of slant but some moderation is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexVegaEsquire (talkcontribs)

Well, the edit war has resumed. I've made my one revert, but AlexVegaEsquire has put it back twice.
Note that it isn't just a dispute with me; AlexVegaEsquire has quarreled with other Wikipedia editors as well (example diff removing sourced (negative) material on fairly specious grounds), e.g. User:Baltimore free and User:Wikihunter6. (Which, granted, also seem to be newish SPA-ish accounts, but... willing to give some benefit of the doubt).
AlexVegaEsquire, for the content discussion about how relevant the subject's denials & explanations are, please edit Talk:Kevin Deutsch. Let's reserve this space for editor conduct. SnowFire (talk) 15:55, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His "15 year career in journalism" is not actually particularly notable and would likely be deleted as a stand-alone article..." — Well, let's test that theory, shall we? Carrite (talk) 12:51, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Now nominated for deletion HERE. Feel free to opine, one and all. Carrite (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated disruptive edits IPuser:24.190.40.112

Since 17 September 2017, 24.190.40.112 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) Repeated disruptive edits every days (see user contribs log), including ununderstandable create inappropriate short articles from redirects[172][173], section branking, references removed[174], BLP violations, added unsourced content[175][176], adding strange grammar sentences (missing "[" or space, etc.)[177][178][179], and a disregard for Wikipedia guidelines. As warning from many other users [180][181][182][183] and editing blocked for 36 hours on 19 September is not worked, I think that it is necessary for editing block of six months or more. Inception2010 (talk) 03:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Inception2010: It should be reported at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. --Marbe166 (talk) 10:03, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Marbe166: I know, but If I reported this IP user at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism, then users says "It should be reported at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents". I have experienced such a situation, so I reported this page. Inception2010 (talk) 16:00, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:RexxS

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

has been repeatedly and inappropriately adding {{Cc-by-sa-3.0}} to File:G'sPB expl2.jpg (see here and here) in an attempt to remedy my concern raised here (no license tag or statement of license → WP:CSD#F4 applies) all while making nonsense claims that are not based on existing copyright law. I'm referring this case to the community because this isn't something I want to battle over; I would just like to see it resolved amicably. Thanks, FASTILY 23:47, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like this is not an isolated incident. See also: Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 September 26#File:G'sPB3.jpg -FASTILY 23:53, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "I'm referring this case to the community because this isn't something I want to battle over; I would just like to see it resolved amicably." -- So you thought you'd come to ANI in an attempt not to battle over it and resolve it amicably? CassiantoTalk 00:01, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes. Hopefully you won't prove me wrong :) -FASTILY 00:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Fastily: You're pretty quick to jump to ANI, considering you've made no attempt to discuss this with me, and your labelling of my edit as "bogus" in your edit summary to your removal of a valid tagrm bogus license, needs to be applied by the uploader to be legally binding - is not only rude but untrue. The tag in question:
{{cc-by-sa-3.0}}
does nothing more than note the status of the work, which I believe to be true. There is nothing in policy that requires that note to be added by the uploader, nor could there possibly be. That tag is not a licence. Contrast that with the commons licence {{self cc-by-sa-4.0}} as can be seen on c:File:Birmingham New Main Line Canal 11.jpg where I specifically create a licence with the words "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license:". Or with the licence at the top of my user page where I license all of my contributions. For someone who wants to see the issue resolved amicably, I have to say you've got off to a very poor start. This discussion belongs at Template talk:cc-by-sa-3.0 or at Village pump. It's disgraceful that an experienced editor like yourself takes an issue that you want to refer to the community to a noticeboard asking for administrator's action. Were you simply hoping one of your fellow admin chums was going to take your side against a mere peon like me? --RexxS (talk) 00:11, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see no issue here. The user uploaded the image, say it was their creation in an image information tags, and forgot to include a license tag. The image is a rendering, and its use seems consistent with a self-made image. Taking the uploader's statement that it is their own work at face value, then RexxS applying a reasonable free image tag is completely in line. The upload probably should confirm that was the license, but that's it. Far from an adminstrator issue, and more a lack of good faith on the OP here to assume RexxS was being disruptive. --MASEM (t) 00:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Masem. The uploader of File:G'sPB expl2.jpg is Giano. Giano did not specify a license tag at upload. RexxS added the Cc-by-sa-3.0 tag, claiming that was what Giano wanted. The problem I'm seeing is that RexxS cannot legally release a file on behalf of Giano without violating Giano's copyright. Of course, if Giano acknowledges that this is acceptable, then we can close this thread. -FASTILY 00:33, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Giano does not edit as often as he used to. And who can blame him when his work is treated like that. But what's the rush? Give him a few days to get back to Wikipedia, rather than setting a week's deadline for his work to be deleted. That's no way to treat content contributors. Seriously, what do you think he's going to say when you ask him if he licenses the files as CC-BY-SA? My position is that he also created a page, User:Giano/Exploding palazzo, with just the (unlicensed) images that he also created on it. When he clicked save, he licensed the content of that page as CC-BY-SA. OK, so I'm being inventive here, but my logic is sound, unless images are no longer content. --RexxS (talk) 01:35, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Who's rushing? It looks as if you are the only person who's rushing. If it's likely that Giano needs some time to fix this, then I don't see a big issue with leaving the discussions open for a month or two. That's regularly done if the involved editors think that an issue can be solved but that more time is needed to solve it. Giano's comment suggests that he is confused about what the problem is but that he can solve it if the problem simply is explained for him. However, your comments to the discussions create a wall of text and risk causing extra confusion. Stefan2 (talk) 12:56, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Stefan2: You tell me who's rushing. See for example, this version of File:G'sPB6.jpg (that you edited) with a great big box plastered across the top saying "Unless the copyright and licensing status is provided, the file will be deleted after Tuesday, 3 October 2017." I simply provided the status as I understood it to prevent the inappropriate deletion. I see no effort by anyone to open discussions, let alone keep them going for a month or two. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. --RexxS (talk) 14:05, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That "great big box" was added by User:Jon Kolbert, not by me.
I see no effort by anyone to open discussions If you check my contribution to that file, you will see that I added a box which links to a discussion about the file. In other words, a discussion about the file has been opened. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would people please resist the must-be-fixed-now bureaucratic approach. Yes, copyright is important but it is obvious that Giano focuses on developing content rather than filling in forms, and a polite discussion when he has some time will see any problems fixed. Also, it would be desirable to find a procedure more likely to benefit the encyclopedia than adding sixteen proposed deletions to User talk:Giano in the last eight days. Johnuniq (talk) 03:51, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • What John said. Fastily, my point above was that ANI is not the place to be thrashing this out. As RexxS mentions, you've made zero attempt to discuss this first and zero attempt to discuss this with the person at the heart of all this, Giano. Giano is not the type of person to go about and flirt with iffy copyright tags in order to see his images up in lights and I would ask you to AGF until you've investigated this fully. How about the numerous tags some idiot has plastered over his page, Banksy style, without a thought for WP:DTTR? Now, for heavens sake, can we please close this and get back to improving the encyclopaedia? CassiantoTalk 06:43, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • What Fastily did was to start a discussion about the file. You seem to claim that Fastily shouldn't have started a discussion about the file but instead discussed the file. That's just a different way of saying the same thing. --Stefan2 (talk) 12:56, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. RexxS should not add copyright notices to files created and uploaded by other editors. It should have been discussed on his talk page first though, even though (judging from the FfD discussions and the reply here) this would have been fruitless.
  2. Giano was well aware of this issue before it was brought here, since he replied here on the 19th. He has been editing on the 21st and the 22nd as well. Fram (talk) 07:25, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Fram You don't get to tell me what edits I can or can't make. There is no policy or even guidance preventing an editor making a note of the copyright status of of a file anywhere. If you think otherwise, then let's see the policy you're relying on. As I demonstrated clearly above, the cc-by-sa-3.0 template does not constitute a licence, merely a notification. Clarifying the status of a file is improving the encyclopedia, and I intend to get back to doing that as soon as this charade is over.
  2. Giano last edited on the 22 September, which is 5 days ago. The issue here was not raised until 26 September. Please see his talk page and retract your inaccurate characterisation of Giano. No doubt he was upset by the volume of unjustified deletion notifications bombing his talk page over the preceding week. Since he regularly takes breaks of 1, 2, or 3 weeks, there is every chance that he hasn't even seen the current crop of discourteous notifications - especially as the most recent three taken to FFD weren't even notified to his talk page. If I hadn't intervened, he would quite probably returned only to find that his hard work had been carelessly thrown away by folks who are not interested in improving the encyclopedia, but only in following bureaucratic procedures to the exclusion of all else. Anybody who cared about the work done by one of our finest content contributors would have left a note on his talk page, gently asking him to provide a licence for those images. When dealing with adults, it is generally understood that persuasion is far more productive than threats. --RexxS (talk) 12:54, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Let's see Wikipedia:Copyrights, a "Wikipedia policy with legal considerations": "Images, video and sound files on the internet need to be licensed directly from the copyright holder or someone able to license on their behalf." You are not the copyright holder, so please indicate what prior permission you had to "license on their behalf", legally speaking. Giano had not released these, he released a page he created which had links to these files.
  2. What "inaccurate characterisation". I indicated that he responded at the file deletion discussion on the 19th, and made further unrelated edits in the next few days. Fram (talk) 13:14, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. My position remains that I believe in good faith that when Giano saved a page consisting solely of those images, he agreed at that point that his contributions in that edit becomes licensed under CC-BY-SA 3.0, and I made it clear when I added the tag to the description page that was the basis of my edit.
  2. You stated Giano was well aware of this issue before it was brought here ... and yet "this issue" concerns the files displayed on User:Giano/Exploding palazzo, all but one of which were nominated for deletion on 26 September, which led me to note the CC-BY-SA status on the same day. Given that he confused the sourcing and licensing in his comment on 19 September, Giano clearly is not aware of the issue here. --RexxS (talk) 13:56, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I don't think I have claimed or even implied that you acted in bad faith, and if I did I apologize. Acting in good faith doesn't mean that you can't unknowingly violate a policy. Fram (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think that RexxS's argument that when an editor uploads a file and uses it on any page, then he licenses it, is very sound. There may be some twist of copyright law, at which I do not pretend to be an expert, that makes it not so, but it resonates with me. To me that says that RexxS had a good faith basis for what he was doing and this should be closed and there be further discussion as necessary on appropriate talk pages.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • For whatever it's worth, User:Fastily is absolutely correct here regarding the license. CCBYSA 3.0 is a legal document, and is not just the way to license free images. Even if the image was explicitly intended to be uploaded for unrestricted free use, there are many ways to do that, of which 3.0 is only one, and you can't agree to this on behalf of someone else unless you had something like power of attorney. If the image is deleted, it can always be restored, and all it would literally take is a comment from the uploader to the effect of "unless otherwise stated, I freely license all my image creations under license". But the CCBYSA 3.0 agreement under an edit summary refers to the contributions in that edit, and not to an image upload done as a separate material contribution. GMGtalk 13:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • The thing is, if you look at Giano's past file contributions, they have uploaded works they created with CC-BY-3.0 [184] for example. RexxS seeing the missing tags, but all other factors being similar (self-claimed work, etc.) it is reasonably fair extrapolation to apply the missing CC-BY-3.0 tag here. Yes, Giano should be notified and asked to clarify and make sure it is correct, but there is zero need to chew RexxS's head off for taking a completely fair step to make sure contributions are kept under our tight image policy (requiring licenses to be listed). --MASEM (t) 13:44, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • You mean "past file contributions" like File:Man in wig.jpg, uploaded as PD-Self and deleted as a Copyright violation in July 2017 amidst protests from Giano? Fram (talk) 13:51, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        • Technically a copyright violation, yes. But if that example (a joke image that the copyright holder was aware of) is a problem, we really need all editors to sign that they do not have a sense of humour before creating an account. We should not rip each other's heads off for not dotting every i in the licensing of our own files. —Kusma (t·c) 14:01, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
          • As far as I can see, the reason for the claimed copyvio was not only that the part of the image taken from LHvU was not attributed, but that the other part of the image (it as some kind of mashup) was not attributed and of unknown origin, even after the FfD discussion. Fram (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
            • As far as I can see, the "protest from Giano" was a joke, and that FFD was (just like this discussion) a complete waste of precious bandwidth. —Kusma (t·c) 14:17, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I mean. If it seems stupid and nit picky... that's because copyright is stupid and nit picky. AGF applies to editors, but not to licenses, as much as life would be easier if it did. It really either is or it ain't, and this ain't. There's not much room there for reasonably fair extrapolations. That CC license means that the images are as likely as anything to end up in a book for sale, or someone's professional website. So the legal stuff needs to be right from the start. It's not often things boil down to right and wrong, but only one side here is on the correct side of copyright. But, like I said, have the uploader put some sort of blanket but explicit statement on their talk when they get back, and that should be enough for other's to apply it on their behalf, and to undelete anything that's been deleted. It isn't a crisis. It's just something broken that needs fixed.GMGtalk 13:59, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, copyright is important, we shouldn't guess, particularly when there is legitimate doubt that the "self-made" claim doesn't apply. I just think that given the situation before RexxS tagged the images, that putting the images in context of where they were, Giano's past contributions (clearly on classic architecture), and Giano's self-made claim (which we need to AGF for sure on), and that we do not allow users to upload non-free they have self-made (we expect you to contribute any work you make freely), this had to qualify for a free license, so tagging CC-BY-3.0 does zero harm. At worst, Giano may have wanted to put it as PD, but switching from CC-BY-3.0 to PD is not harmful at all (it relaxes the license that much more). It would be a problem if we were "under"-tagging the copyright, and that the uploaded wanted something more restrictive. --MASEM (t) 14:15, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe this is just something I'm used to from being on commons too much, but these types of discussions are not a matter of consensus. There is only one right answer, and every other answer is wrong, regardless of how many caveats it has. You can't enter into legal agreements on behalf of someone else. Whatever "but", "and", or "also" follows that is irrelevant. I'm not trying to be curt; it just really is that simple. (BTW I'm not really commenting on the interpersonal stuff, just the licensing issue.) GMGtalk 14:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You need to add "... on Wikipedia". There are all kinds of mechanisms for entering into legal agreements on behalf of someone else, but Wiki (rightly) does not allow their use. Anmccaff (talk) 14:41, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No. Anywhere, in the absence of something like power of attorney, articles of incorporation, etc., i.e. the explicit consent to allow others to consent on your behalf, or having that decision made legally in a court and legally given over to someone else as a guardian, or having little or no right to consent legally to begin with, such as small children. GMGtalk 14:48, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Umm, yeah, those are several examples of common exceptions, yup, so why start it with "no?" You left out the two commonest, spousal action in common-property areas and a pattern of ratified consent. None of which, except for open, well known agency, mean anything to Wiki. Anmccaff (talk) 14:59, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All of the above could be valid on-wiki, but would require an email to OTRS in order to document. I made a caveat for "something like power of attorney" far above, but obviously none of these really relevant to the current situation. GMGtalk 15:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect we are mostly ferociously agreeing here, but I think the point has to be made that TPTB on Wiki appear to want to keep away from the edge of what is straightforwardly legal. They'd rather lose a picture or two than waste money establishing the exact boundaries of usage rights, and they are rightly aware that their pockets are deep enough to make them a target. Kosher isn't enough; gotta be glatt kosher. Anyway, this is peripheral, your central point, that we have to be more careful with usage rights than we have been above, is absolutely correct. Anmccaff (talk) 15:53, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In a case as with these images, losing them would not be a huge loss, but let's consider a hypothetical: a user comes along and provides us with a free photo of Kim Jong-un (a living figure we've been striving for one for a long time), stating it as their own work uploaded under their name and stating they are putting up as a free license image, and there's no question of the validity of being their own work or legitimacy of the image, but they forget to include the license tag, and for some personal reason, they do not edit for several months following that. Losing that image because of a missing license tag when all indicators show that we know they wanted a free license seems really really silly. Someone else tagging it with CC-BY-SA-3.0 is perhaps the best solution in this type of case as it assures the most rights retained with the image uploader (under their statement for a free license), and if they come back and really wanted, say, CC-BY-3.0 or even PD (giving away more rights), that license can be changed without harm. It's trying to recapture rights that is a problem, so tagging PD initially would be a problem. There needs to be some common sense here. --MASEM (t) 16:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The correct course of action is to delete the image, and leave the user a note so that when they come back, they can indicate how they would like to license it. When they do, we can restore it, and use it accordingly. In the meantime, we aren't giving literally everyone in the world permission to reuse, modify, and even sell this image under a license we presumed the uploader had the intention of using. It's the off-wiki use that runs into problems, because these people are legally using the image based on a license that you or I weren't permitted to apply. Copyright isn't an on-wiki rule, and so it's not something we can IAR. GMGtalk 17:05, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We can't make any assumptions of the uploader's intentions. {{GFDL-presumed}} on Commons is a speedy deletion template for a reason. See also Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:GFDL-presumed.
Licensing statements are only valid if stated by the copyright holder (or by someone else who holds a valid power of attorney). We don't know what licence the uploader meant to choose or if the uploader even intended to violate WP:IUP#User-created images by uploading a user-created non-free file (which would then be deleted for violating WP:NFCC#6). I assume that the uploader meant to license the files, but we can't add any undisclosed licences to the file information pages. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Usually I would agree under no circumstances should editors add licences on that editors behalf ... however .... the source does clearly state and I quote "I (Giano (talk)) created this work entirely by myself." so all's one needs to do is go through Giano's uploads and then use the licence on the last own-uploaded image which is exactly what RexxS did - In all honestly RexxS used some initiative and as such should be thanked not dragged here , FWIW I would prefer Giano to use the licences because it avoids this really. –Davey2010Talk 14:11, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenMeansGo: I can see your point, even if I believe that Giano's saving of the page affirmed the copyright of its contents. I mean, if I created a page using the visual editor consisting of just an image that I had created and uploaded without a licence, why wouldn't my agreement to the CC-BY-SA 3.0 licence when I saved apply to the image I had created? There's no "wikicode" in that scenario to act as a red herring, and the VE even offers to do an upload for you as you add an image. Nevertheless, I accept you may have a different opinion. For what it's worth, I now have a template at the top of my user page explicitly licensing all my contributions, and I hope I could persuade Giano to adopt something similar to avoid future unpleasantness. --RexxS (talk) 14:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Which brings up a good point that if the Visual Editor is not prompting editors that upload images through it to add a license, free or not, that is a serious problem for any WMF project and the resolution on image use. License info must be added to any uploaded image and VE doesn't seem to be asking for this). --MASEM (t) 14:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
RexxS It's... just different. The copyright of the image doesn't have anything to do with wiki. It is created when the image is created. You license the "creative contribution" (however small), of putting an image where there was none previously (on the page, not uploading on the wiki) when you click save. But that doesn't address the original copyright assumed to exist when the image began to exist.
So, for example, when I add a non-free image to a page, my creative contribution of "putting that image in that spot in particular" is licensed under CCBYSA 3, but that doesn't in any way transfer to the image, obviously, because it's a copyrighted image added under a claim of fair use. GMGtalk 14:31, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so the issue seems to be that Giano is not correctly licencing images he uploads. The solution would seem to be a community imposed editing restriction on Giano, prohibiting him from uploading any images unless they are suitably licenced at the time of uploading. Mjroots (talk) 18:23, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's different when you put in a nonfree image, or quote text from a nonfree source. In that instance, you lack the authority to release that text under any license besides what the copyright holder wants. But when you upload your own images, or contribute text you wrote, you do have the authority to agree to the TOU, including that whatever you contribute is released under CC-BY-SA-3.0. If you have the right to do that, and you click save, you're agreeing to that. Nothing in that agreement says that only text contributed that way is affected. SeraphimbladeTalk to me 18:26, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No. You are exactly wrong. GMGtalk 18:37, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong that editors do not have the authority to release material they don't hold the copyright to, or that they do have the right to release material they do hold the copyright to? And why? SeraphimbladeTalk to me 19:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I... really don't want to explain everything again. The licensing of the image requires an explicit license on the image, which is put there by the uploader because they are the ones who own the copyright to it. Explicitly non-free doesn't matter, because every image is presumed to be non-free unless it is appropriately licensed otherwise. Neither the TOU nor the edit summary disclaimer override that. Every piece of media is a separate creation that comes with its own implicit copyright applied in the moment of its creation. The creative contribution made by adding an image to a page, which is covered under the disclaimer, does not actually cover the image itself. Otherwise fair use would make no sense, because every fair use image is added in a contribution covered under the disclaimer. You cannot armchair license something by playing fast and loose with unrelated policies or assumed intentions. The uploader either did or did not explicitly give up their intellectual property rights to this piece of intellectual property in particular, full stop. GMGtalk 20:48, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At the risk of dragging this out, I simply disagree with some of your assumptions and assertions. The licensing of an image requires nothing more than the owner of the copyright agreeing a licence. Nothing needs to be on the image at all. Of course the image is a separate piece of creative work, in that it can be isolated from other elements such as text or other images and may be licensed differently. You say that a creator who makes an image and makes a page can't license both at the same time. I say they can. You bring in the "fair use" red-herring. The creator of a page can't license an image they don't own the copyright to, so fair use is not a consideration here. Just because an editor can't license someone else's copyrighted work, doesn't mean they can't license their own copyrighted work. Our disagreement is merely about the manner in which they may do that. An uploader who agrees to a CC-BY-SA-3.0 licence never gave up their intellectual property rights by that act; they simply allow others certain freedoms with their copyrighted work, and the copyright remains with them. I say Giano agreed the licence when he saved the page; you say he didn't. Fine - we disagree. But you've adduced no more policy or law to your argument than I have to mine. I don't believe either of us can be authoritative on the matter. --RexxS (talk) 23:11, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(When all you have is a hammer...) Whenever they get back, have them do something like this, and we're fine. If they don't then we delete the images. The only thing this needs is a close. They've uploaded a few hundred images, and a lot of them seem to be fine, unless I'm missing something. Everyone misses a step sometimes. I've done it plenty of times. Plus... that's not an editing restriction... everyone is required to properly license their uploads. GMGtalk 18:37, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:Mjroots: The issue is not really that Giano isn't licensing his uploads correctly. That looks like an honest mistake which probably can be fixed (provided that Giano responds), and we don't impose editing restrictions because someone makes an occasional mistake. The issue is that RexxS's contributions to the file information pages resulted in a long discussion. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is completely ridiculous. I haven't a clue what I am supposed to do with all these stupid time-wasting forms. If I spend hours and hours making a 3D plan, and then say I am releasing it into the public domain, that should be good enough for anyone. Rather than mounting a barrage of criticism by mindless bureaucrats, simply rectifying an obvious shortcoming is the answer. Anyone who has ever glanced at the horrible plan (also my work) currently on one of Wikipedia's most viewed pages, Buckingham Palace would realize the importance of what I am trying to do here. When one has limited free time, a plan this size takes years to complete, and it is essential I can see on-screen what the finished produce will look like. However, I am frequently reminded why I have almost turned my back on this rule-bound project. Giano (talk) 10:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can probably button this up now. Giano has given the nod to using the 3.0 license on their talk page, which is all this really needed to begin with. We can all probably stop arguing over the details and maybe... go figure out exactly which barnstars to give them for uploading many higher quality images than probably most of us have managed to do ourselves. GMGtalk 10:52, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • There now, you can all relax, reduce your blood pressures and cease hyperventilating, I have plastered this: {{Cc-by-sa-3.0}} all over as many images as I could find. Let's hope that suffices and none of you ever experience a really serious problem in your lives. Giano (talk) 11:07, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Giano: Thank you. As long as you have one license on all your images in the future (either {{PD-self}}, {{Cc-by-sa-3.0}}, or any number of other appropriate licenses), you're good to go; the images that already had PD-self had no issues). This is a legal requirement, so there's little getting around it. We can't accept images that haven't been formally licensed without it constituting a copyright violation. ~ Rob13Talk 12:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mad about Indiegogo funding perks – misleading username

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We have a single-purpose account, IngaSmith, who is apparently angry at the Indiegogo funding effort for Hardcore Henry, and angry at a certain Inga Smith who has managed the film's Indiegogo campaign. The Indiegogo campaign updates posted by the real Inga Smith say that she "sent out the bulk of signed BluRays" along with hats and posters. Our Wikipedia user named IngaSmith contradicts this by writing "In May 2017 Hardcore Henry producer's Inga Smith announced the shipment of some of the perks to the backers around the World, however after several months from that announcement, and years from the crowdfunding campaign, no backer yet has publicly confirmed to have received any of the awaited merchandise, not even the digital copy of the movie." The contradictory text is based on the unreliable reader comments section of the webpage.

To me, it appears that our registered IngaSmith is attacking the real Inga Smith. The username seems to have been chosen to falsely represent the real person. The real Inga Smith would not likely post a self-contradiction in this manner.

The SPA IngaSmith is joined in the edit warring by a sock or meatpuppet friend Panda1001. I think both accounts must be blocked. Binksternet (talk) 17:39, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Both blocked as attack account, impersonation, abusing multiple accounts. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 17:57, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Fast work. Binksternet (talk) 19:20, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First day registered user Chrag Lay Fong removing content from 200 pages

User:Chrag Lay Fong user contributions show that they have removed Arabic/Xiao'erjing script from approximately 200 articles pertaining to Islam in China, mainly articles about Hui people who use this script. They have never provided a rational for doing so, and they never provided any edit summaries. Could an administrator mass-revert these edits or should there be a lengthy discussion first? - Takeaway (talk) 18:14, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not qualified to judge whether the edits in question were helpful or not, but because it was mass editing, without an apparent consensus, without explanation (not even an edit summary) and from a brand new editor, I have rolledback the edits that were accessible to rollback, and advised the editor to come to this discussion and explain why they made the edits, as wellas to ask where is the best place to go to get a consensus to make mass edits of that type. Any established editor who feels the edits were legitimate and should not have been rolled back may reinstate them without the need to check with me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
While it would have been preferred to use a mass rollback tool that allows you to provide an edit summary, I agree that this should have been done. — nihlus kryik (talk) 21:00, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I provided a rationale on the user's talk page. I don't generally use many automated or semi-automated tools. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:39, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
These notices were given on 25 September. Since User:Chrag Lay Fong continued to remove Arabic script from more articles on 26 September, I have blocked them for 48 hours. They have never left a talk comment or an edit summary. The affected articles that I've checked all have some connection to Islamic people or culture so the presence of Arabic script has some logic. I have no objection if anyone wants to do a further rollback. EdJohnston (talk) 03:51, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Glamping

There appears to be some edit warring, spamming, and COI concerns at Glamping. I think an admin should get involved because there is an WP:OUTING attempt in an edit summary that should probably be hidden. Deli nk (talk) 11:54, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summary deleted, both SPA blocked for adding spam links. Alex ShihTalk 13:07, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What spam link did Outdoorsy (talk·contribs) add? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 13:31, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Finlay McWalter: I may have blocked in haste, and I would gladly correct my mistake if this was an error. The concern was the insistence on having this link included 3 times while protesting here in edit summary that removing this link means removing those of competitors. This is not taking the posting of personal information (which is being continued at the current unblock request) into consideration. Alex ShihTalk 13:45, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Outdoorsy did not add that link, it was added on 30 September 2016 by Mewasevasr (talk·contribs) [185] diff]. Are you claiming Mewasevasr is Outdoorsy? If OUTING is an issue, can you please show me the specific diff where Outdoorsy was advised of this policy? -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 13:55, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Outdoorsy may not have been the original editor to add the link, but the behavior in restoring the link and otherwise strike me as pretty questionable. Also, I don't get why it's relevant to know whether Outdoorsy was notified of the outing policy. Ignorance of such a core policy doesn't excuse its violation. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 14:00, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, but it is in the Terms of Use: wmf:Terms of Use/en#4. Refraining from Certain_Activities under "Violating the Privacy of Others", which is presumably read before creating an account. Alex ShihTalk 14:03, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that's something you could certainly point to when warning him to desist. But we don't block every new user who breaks our interpretation of those rules, immediately and without warning or explaination, the very first time they break them. That's why we have warning messages. But right now Outdoorsy is blocked for "adding spam links" he didn't add, and for breaking the outing rule in a way that a perfectly reasonable and good faith person might well do. Right now no-one has advised him of that rule, of this discussion, or has addressed his unblock request. He erred, certainly, in identifying a user's affiliation publicly; you erred in reading a (complex, sure) diff list; and Deli nk erred in not informing him of this discussion. I don't see any evidence, after some time of asking, that this is in any way someone other than a good-faith user reverting spam, and on that basis I think he's been treated rather shabbily. With a warning about WP:OUTING, he should be unblocked. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:21, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
They certainly added the spam link - they may not have been the first user to add it to that article, but they restored a commercial link that had zero informational value, repeatedly, while proclaiming that it was "unfair" that it had been removed. (It is worth mentioning that links to that domain were added by a couple of different accounts to several different articles last September, in what was apparently an undetected spamming effort.) If the account is unblocked, the user needs to be given a strict warning against adding inappropriate links, as well. --bonadea contributions talk 14:27, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) It was just refspam of a business. Outdoorsy added a ref to an already referenced statement which merely linked the landing page of a glamping business. Generally speaking, it's rare that it's appropriate for a business landing page to be used as a reference, particularly where that landing page would violate the external link guidelines, as it would in this case (specifically WP:ELNO#EL14). —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 13:46, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

False accusations of incivility & vandalism

On Talk:Malta Convoys, my comments on an edit were called "incivil" by User:Keith-264, with whom (AFAI recall) I've had no previous contact. Following a content dispute, he demanded "discussion" of the contested edit, but refused to actually enter into any discussion, & when I rv'd (following his rv of the contested edit), he described it as vandalism. (I believe that also puts him in violation of 3RR...which, I confess, I may also be.) I don't appreciate abuse. I don't appreciate false accusations. I don't appreciate being held to a standard nobody else is actually being held to. I expect this complaint will produce just another excuse to air my past bad behavior, however, & provide yet another opportunity for people hostile to me to call for an indefinite block. At this point, I might welcome it. It beats harassment by User:Keith-264, & stalking by User:Andy Dingley, all hollow. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 22:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Trek has taken umbrage despite a considerable effort by several editors to accommodate his point of view over the last week. He has reverted good work by defining it as not relevant to the article, refused to heed contrary opinion by two editors and arbitrarily reverted it again tonight, yet again according to a personal view of the motives of others. A quick look at the talk page shows that I have made a considerable effort to seek consensus and am not the editor in a minority of one. Calling me a harasser is a bit rich.Keith-264 (talk) 22:20, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:BOOMERANG. Trekphiler, I don't know what your childish whining is about today, but either post some diffs or leave me out of it. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:37, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Both User:Trekphiler and User:Keith-264 have violated 3RR. Interactions between these two editors at Talk:Malta convoys have been strained for going on a week now. In this time, I have attempted to moderate discussion and provide a third opinion to try to keep things running smoothly and to find a consensus but this has become increasingly difficult. My most recent offer to continue stands but any prospect of success appears to be increasingly unlikely unless there is a significant change. Regards Cinderella157 (talk) 01:47, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#Civility war?. Cinderella157 (talk) 07:56, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My error. There have been three reverts by each in less than 24 hrs (if I got the maths right), not "more than 3", so this is not a violation of 3RR. My apologies to all for my error. It is; however, nonetheless, a situation that requires admin intervention. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:28, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"considerable effort"? I've seen you whining about my attitude & calling me a vandal, but not a lot of discussion of the substantive issue--& agreeing discussion with me is "a waste of time".
"leave me out of it" Right after you stop inserting yourself into discussions that have nothing to do with you.
It seems to me Keith-264 has been hostile to my edits on the Malta Convoys page from the start & has been trying to provoke me into saying something genuinely incivil. I believe that's called "baiting", & I understood there was a penalty for that. Presumably it only applies if I do it. TREKphilerany time you're ready, Uhura 20:55, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not the one making wholesale reverts without consensus, jumping to conclusions about motive or ignoring third party mediation.Keith-264 (talk) 23:29, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, you're claiming vandalism, incivility, & ownership, despite edits like this. Who's got a problem with ownership? And who, evidently, wants me to just shut up & go away? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 23:51, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Trekphiler, you brought this to ANI. As is well recognised, ANI isn't a place for content disputes. Now if you have a concrete ANI-relevant reason for a problem with some other editor(s)' behaviour, then say clearly what that is. Otherwise withdraw this ANI filing, because a fatuous ANI filing against others is not an acceptable use of it. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This has become disruptive at the subject talk page/article. There has (IMO) been a clear case of WP:GAMING, which I have reverted for this reason. Beyond this, I make no comment regarding culpability. However, if all of the allegations being made here are problematic to sort through, then, I believe it would be appropriate to at least take interim action to minimise further disruption. Cinderella157 (talk) 13:12, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On the matter of an allegation of WP:GAMING, I rely on the edit summary for that particular edit in the first instance. On the nature of disruption beyond that, I have been silent - as to both what and by whom (singular or plural). Similarly, on the matter of interim action, I have also been silent on the nature of such action and against whom (singular or plural) such action should be directed. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:05, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"take interim action to minimise further disruption" I was right. You do just want to shut me up. Accusing me of vandalism for making an edit one editor disapproves of is okay, but any edit I make, even one that is allegedly acceptable to him, is "gaming the system"? So much for fair treatment. TREKphilerany time you're ready, Uhura 19:05, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
One other thing crosses my mind. Isn't an accusation of vandalism, when it's not a fairly clear example (& not just a dispute over content) a violation of AGF? (Oh, wait, I forgot--no, since I didn't do it...) TREKphilerany time you're ready, Uhura 22:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And after saying on the talk page he wouldn't oppose adding calibers, this, more evidence of WP:OWN issues. TREKphilerany time you're ready, Uhura 00:26, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When you add repeated nonsense like this, "{{convert 15 in mm abbr=on}}-gunned battlecruiser" it's no surprise you're getting reverted. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:54, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did think it was reductio ad absurdum. When I reverted Treks second mass delete, I chose [[Help:Reverting Reverting]] [[Wikipedia:Vandalism vandalism]] or test edit because it seemed the most accurate description, given all that had passed since his first one. Pity trek didn't ask why instead of jumping to conclusions. It seems to me that Trek is defining the nature and purpose of the article in such narrow terms that he felt justified in cutting the lot rather than questioning it edit by edit. Since I don't agree with his definition of the article we are fundamentally at odds. That's why I've downed tools; I don't want a third day's work going down the Swannee. Keith-264 (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:CCC24243 talking to themselves and creating disruption

Could someone please block this user indef per WP:NOTTHERE? It was created to participate at Talk:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation to support an IP and create an illusion of consensus. They talk to each other and say that I must "chill out" and that the "discussion is settled", ignoting policy-based arguments. The only edit of this user outside of the talk page is in the article where the IP also edited. This is really becoming annoying, especially since I can not directly block them for disruption. The text of the article, which is in a highly contentious area, reflects a long-standing consensus which the IP is apparently unhappy with. Thank you.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:49, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DoneAlex ShihTalk 12:51, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:18, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hacked articles redirect to a Youtube livestream

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Hello. I've just identified at least two pages (Snoop Dogg and Xerox) that have [186] overlaid on top of it, the size of that image seems to be changed to 7000x7000 px. Basically, wherever you click on the article, you're redirected to the livestream of l0de ([187], though now it's offline), who is a youtuber that has less than 300 subscriptions.

There must be something shared by these two articles, because not all articles on Wikipedia are affected. I must admit that I've never seen something like this before.

Pinging @General Ization: if he wants to add something. Mr KEBAB (talk) 04:03, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I found the cause. See [188]. Have asked that Everettman be blocked immediately. This exploit affected every page that used {{Currency}}. General Ization Talk 04:09, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I reported him to Oshwah, who has blocked him. – Nihlus (talk) 04:11, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The offending edit has been revdel'd, so unfortunately (I suppose) can no longer be seen at the diff above. But hopefully someone will consider how to prevent a similar exploit in the future. General Ization Talk 04:16, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Think one slipped through the cracks

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I believe a sysop should probably rev-del this revision, it appears to contain BLP violations and the "source" is completely unrelated. Home Lander (talk) 19:43, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Quite correct, and done. Seraphimblade Talk to me 19:49, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Disruptive account

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PLease the talk page (User talk:Biplabbala33498) and edit history [189] of Biplabbala33498. Disruptive account. Has just created an article Dion Siluch with '...' as the only content. Tagged it for speedy deletion, and see it's been speedied three times in recent days already, and jsut re-created. Hasn't WP:COMMUNICATED or heeded previous warnings. Boleyn (talk) 14:49, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now blocked for 31 hours, thanks RickinBaltimore. Boleyn (talk) 14:54, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I gave them an explanation as to why they were blocked as well. They seem to be eager to edit here, but creating multiple throwaway articles isn't the way to go about it. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Constant vandalism on the page "Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2017"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

212.112.150.123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

Please check this guy activity, he's been constantly vandalizing the page, I'm just reverting it but he never stops, please check the situation.

The page: Portugal in the Eurovision Song Contest 2017 (check the edits) His IP address: 212.112.150.123 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phospor (talkcontribs) 17:59, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to have stop editing for now, about two and half hours ago, but they really do need to be warned if they make unconstructive edits - they have had no warnings. I've left a first general caution as they have been edit warring. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looking further back, I see RickinBaltimore blocked a very similar IP address on 16 August for block evasion by User:Carsten11. Looks like a duck to me to me so I've blocked for one month. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:36, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Tonmoypaul.71 pagemoves

Not too sure what's going on here, but Tonmoypaul.71 (talk · contribs) has been moving pages in long chains. It appears he is trying to move Datta High School to Dutt High School, but has created a whole mess in the process. Could someone clean it up? (note - before a few days ago, the article refered to the school as Datta, then some IP's changed it to Dutt - may be the same person) – Train2104 (tc) 00:38, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The external links, when run through Google Translate, give "Datta High School" and not "Dutt High School". Google Maps shows a location for "Datta High School" but none for "Dutt High School", although it does show a "Dutta Girls High School". Current, the article is at "Dutt High School", but this appears to be incorrect. Someone who is proficient in the language should look this over. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:34, 24 September 2017 (UTC) Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:32, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It should be "Datta" in English, but it would appear that it is known as "Dutt" in English. In languages that use Latin script <u> usually represents "ooh"-like sounds. Due to the fact that English orthography basically preserves the way English was pronounced 700 years ago or so, it also represents "aah"-like sounds, like the <u> in the previous name of Kolkata. It also appears that we may well have a young person writing about their own school, as often happens, so be gentle. Remember What the Thunder Said. (Admittedly I wrote about the main administration block at one of my (four) alma maters, and made it the top google hit for "Sydney's ugliest building" for some time.)--Shirt58 (talk) 02:41, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tonmoypaul.71 has moved the page and Talk page yet again - this time to Dutt High School. (please note stop as part of title) - suggest article needs to be move protected to stop even more multiple moves - but after so many moves, by multiple editors, when does the music stop? - Arjayay (talk) 19:54, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I considered move protection, but it seems like overkill when there's only one person who's being disruptive. Tonmoypaul.71 blocked 31 hours and warned that further disruption won't be tolerated. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive edits by User:Smitty Smitty

I am involved in a dispute at 2017 Presidents Cup. I started a thread on Talk:2017 Presidents Cup to discuss it with the other user (User:Smitty Smitty), and with this edit informed him of the discussion. Another user (User:Nigej) commented on the talk page, agreeing with me. Smitty Smitty reverted my edit. Nigej then reverted his edit, pointing to the talk page; Smitty Smitty reverted again. He has not once provided any reasoning for his edits. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 20:00, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I made the edits because the schedule is set. They just don't like the fact the golfers have yet to be decided for that day. They have provided no reason the edits shouldn't be made, they just don't like the fact I made the edits first.

We have provided what we feel is sufficient reasoning, and you have continued to be disruptive. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 20:08, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Smitty Smitty blocked 24 hours for edit warring, but, Phinumu, you're edit warring, too. It's good that you're trying to discuss this on the talk page, but you can't just indefinitely revert someone simply because they won't discuss their edits. Some people would say that you should be blocked for fairness, too, but I think your attempts to discuss the matter mitigate your edit warring enough for a warning. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I was aware of that possibility. I should've started the talk page discussion sooner, but I knew that I'd have backing from other users that are heavily involved in that article and similar articles. pʰeːnuːmuː →‎ pʰiːnyːmyː → ‎ɸinimi → ‎fiɲimi 20:29, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Verification

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So I made [190] this edit, thinking it would improve the page but General Ization reverted it for "vandalism" when if you look at that it has NO elements of vandalism. I then undid it and then he redidit it. He probably did that so just so I would break the three revert rule and get blocked. KNOCKXX 22:08, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you may have clicked on the wrong link, when what you intended to click on was Talk:Verificationism. GMGtalk 22:11, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Also see Knockxx's self-reverted [191] edit to Knowledge despite the page notice about editing the initial links. WP:BOOMERANG.--☾Loriendrew☽(ring-ring) 22:34, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I never checked the talk page. KNOCKXX 22:46, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See that's your issue KNOCKX. When you have a content dispute, the talk page is always the first place to go. If that doesn't work, then try the dispute resolution process, and if that doesn't work, then come to ANI. GMGtalk 22:49, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
K then. And I'm pretty sure you meant Talk:Verification. KNOCKXX 22:51, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Close plz. No upside down ranged weapons needed. GMGtalk 22:53, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Also please note that the OP's next edit immediately after their edit to Knowledge and two other articles related to it, Verificationism and Quality, was this. This tells me the editor is WP:NOTHERE. General IzationTalk 22:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am here to build an Encyclopedia. I was aware of WP:GTP, but I didn't do it because of that. KNOCKXX 23:02, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
After reading this editor's user and talk page, I think it's possible that this may be a WP:CIR issue. For whatever reason, it doesn't appear to me that Knockxx is currently competent to edit Wikipedia, or that he will develop that competency in a reasonable amount of time. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:48, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mea culpa. I should've checked his contribs, which would have made it clear that he was NOTHERE. My bad. Thanks, Bbb23. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:33, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • NP. Subsequently blocked as a sock of Glaxp, which user on review is clearly not 16, or 18, or a new user, so claims of in/competence or innocent ignorance were beside the point anyway. General Ization Talk 19:19, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Possible indef'd user editing anonymously

204.126.11.220 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) appears to be indef-blocked user Jack Gaines (talk · contribs) editing anonymously, as the IP is constantly changing genres on country music song articles, usually to "bro country", often with no source at all, dubious sourcing that is either patently unreliable or synthesis, or an edit summary of "look at the lyrics".

Sample edits by IP here: [192] [193] [194] can easily be compared to similar edits by Jack Gaines [195] [196]

Can I please get some eyes on this IP address, if not a block? Likewise, if you see "Bro country" in any infoboxes, nuke it on sight. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:06, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a duck to me. Blocked for 3 days. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:11, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@TenPoundHammer: Presently 43 instances of "Bro country" in articles - put insource:"Bro+country" into https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&ns0=1 - most look genuine, but easy enough to keep an eye on. --RexxS (talk) 02:05, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@RexxS: So far, the only inbounds are from the {{Country music}} template, and from linking valid instances of the term being used in context (e.g., quoting the phrase when a reviewer uses it). So long as it stays out of the genre field in the infobox. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 03:24, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
TIL that Bro country is actually a thing. Wow. Anyway, if there's usable sourcing that a song is in that genre, it sounds fine to say so in the article and (depending) in the infobox. 173.228.123.121 (talk) 05:59, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:Danish Shakeel creation and recreation of articles

I can seem to look objectively at this issue, so I'm posting this here to essentially wash my hands of it. (Essentially, having put it up for two separate speedy deletions, I am assuming the topic isn't notable. With sources in other languages and a topic well outside of anything I know anything about, I'm wimping out and passing the buck.)

The user in question is a SPA apparently creating the same article multiple times under several variations of the title: [[Samad mir}}, Samad Mir, Kulyaat-e-Samad Mir and, for all I know, others. The articles seem to have been deleted for a variety of reasons: copyright violations, no assertion of notability, inadequate sources, etc. The version up for speedy right now is/was a copypaste from a blog.[197] While it has been somewhat rewritten (better English, some reduction of peacockery), at least some of the sources are clearly blogs. (I haven't checked the others.) I'm thinking a block is in order for the editor.

The other article, Danish Shakeel is clearly the user name. As it is gone, I don't know if it's autobiographical or somehow related to the other article. - SummerPhDv2.0 01:21, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's also some socking here: User talk:Danishshakeel17051999, Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Iamdanishshakeel/Archive, etc. - SummerPhDv2.0 01:25, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Add User:Shakeel513, another SPA, to that list. - SummerPhDv2.0 13:44, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm assuming there is a connection to Moti Lal Saqi, the only article linking to Samad Mir, and the SPA who created it, User:Naveenraina. That article is also a copyvio, up for speedy. - SummerPhDv2.0 01:35, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The deleted article at Danish Shakeel certainly appears to be an autobiographical vanity page, and was deleted twice by the same admin. The URL from which it was taken is currently offline, and that's a common pattern when vanity pages are deleted as copyvios, as a Wikipedia article is more prized by many than a personal website. Andrewa (talk) 10:51, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Repeated removal of user talk page content without permission

Further developments being handled at SPI. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 16:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

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Recently, GeoJoe10000 has been removing content from my talk page. Under WP:TPG, "users are free to remove content from their own talk pages". However, GeoJoe10000 has not requested that I remove this content, and he has moved to revert any content that I have restored.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/802902891 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/802902952 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/802902965 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/802904175 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/802904322

It appears that he done this because I have been critical of his behaviour—and that of his previous account, GeoJoe1000—and he wants to remove any evidence of it. He never asked permission to remove these comments, and had he sought it, I would have agreed to it as a show of good faith (although given this behaviour, I would be less inclined to remove it now).— Preceding unsigned comment added by Prisonermonkeys (talkcontribs)

Don't know about all that, but I do know this is totally unacceptable. John from Idegon (talk) 05:48, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And so is all this - FlightTime (open channel) 06:00, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is not the first time he has done something like this, as evidenced by these personal attacks on Spintendo—attacks which GeoJoe10000 has since deleted. GeoJoe10000's talk page claims that I am only on Wikipedia to bully him, though it appears that anyone who disagrees with him is a bully. He has a long history of conflict with other editors, and aggressive and disruptive editing. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, he has been blocked as a sockpuppet of his old account, so the problem has been solved. I suspect that his intention was to retire the old account and turn over a new leaf, so to speak. It might have been a new account, but it was the same old attitude. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:30, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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FC Steaua București - CSA Steaua București (football)

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This one is a little bit complicated. CSA Steaua București is a very popular sports club in Romania. In 1998, the football department separated from the sports society and became FC Steaua București. CSA Steaua sued the football club becaue it used their Steaua brand without permission, so the football club changed its name to the acronym FCSB in March 2017. The sports club refounded their football department, which started to play in the fourth league this summer.

The problem is that some fans who chose to abandon FCSB and support CSA Steaua claim that the team from the fourth league has the honours and the history of the FCSB. Altough FCSB can't officially use the name Steaua, this hasn't changed the fact that the trophies are attributed to them. They currently play in the UEFA Europa League and both UEFA and the Romanian Football Federation confirm that they continued Steaua's history and own the honours.

There are certain users such as TPTB that keep transferring the honours of FCSB to CSA Steaua's article! FCSB's page is protected (or it was, I don't know for sure now) and I think the other article should too. Indefinetely, because this is an edit war which persists since FC Steaua changed its name in March.

Thank you!8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 13:55, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again with the goddam Romanian football? EEng 14:47, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, no wonder there are less and less fans on the stadiums!8Dodo8 (talk·contribs) 07:57, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that these things keep popping up on this noticeboard with monotonous regularity when the appropriate place to discuss them is [a] the article talk page, for content issues, [b] WP:RFPP, for page protection issues, or [c] probably nowhere, and certainly not here, for endless, repetitive, uninteresting arguments about the name/status of a football club. -- Begoon 08:08, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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CSA Steaua București (football) - FC Steaua București

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"I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl. We ate lobster, drank Piña Coladas. At sunset we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over and over and over?" -- Phil Connors
".... oh yeah - don't drive on the railroad tracks!"

This issue was discussed here and I see that the user 8Dodo8 has lied and manipulated you all. The truth about this issue is this. Fotbal Club Fcsb was founded in 2003. The team took over Steaua Bucuresti's first league place illegally and it also started using the Steaua Bucuresti name and brand although it had no right to them. Gigi Becali, Fotbal Club Fcsb's shadow owner, <BLP violation redacted> CSA Steaua Bucuresti, the real Steaua Bucuresti, the team who won the European Champions Cup in 1986, sued Becali and his team and won. Fotbal Club Fcsb is now forbidden to use the Steaua names and brand. They are also forbidden to pretend they are Steaua Bucharest, but <BLP violation redacted> they don't care. Currently, Fotbal Club Fcsb and Steaua Bucharest are involved in several other lawsuits. In one of them, Steaua asks for Fotbal Club Fcsb to pay 38 milion euros in reparations. This lawsuit will probably end next year and will lead to Fotbal Club Fcsb's demise. Becali has even announced that if he loses the lawsuit, he will file for bankruptcy and simply erase his team, so that he won't have to pay the 38 million euros. He has provided no proof that he owns the Steaua honours. He uses them because UEFA and the Romanian Football Federation have not yet issued official statements regarding the matter. On their websites, fotbal club fcsb is still credited with winning the ECC in 1986, but that information comes directly from the club. It's not official information and should not be used as such. All this information is known in Romania. The user 8Dodo8, who is in fact the supporter of a rival team and who probably hates Steaua, has lied to you all. He's using the state of confusion in the Romanian press and Becali's propaganda to deceive you and to destroy an honest page, created with the right information, and that is not based on lies. If you check the history of the CSA Steaua București (football) you will see that what 8Dodo8 did was the same exact thing as what the other vandals did. Some of them had registered accounts, others didn't. But they all made the exact same changes to the page. Some of them even created accounts just to vandalize that page.

The CSA Steaua București (football) page was created by SupervladiTM. He is a Steaua supporter and one of the people who helped create the FC Steaua București page. That was in the mid 2000s, when no one really knew what becali did and that his club is not Steaua. Ask him why he created the CSA Steaua București (football) page and you'll see that the information he added there was correct and that people like 8Dodo8 are just vandals.

I asked for aministrators to protect the CSA Steaua page. Seeing this, 8Dodo8 went to an administrator friend of his and asked him to vandalize the page for him. That's why I ask that his account be deleted and that all his modifications to the CSA Steaua București (football) page be undone.

Please keep in mind that this is the only team that can use the Steaua name and brand. It is the only team with the Steaua honours. There are no others that can use it. Soon, Fotbal Club Fcsb will be closed down and the FC Steaua Bucuresti page will be either deleted or modified to present the correct information. The Romanian justice system has decided that Fotbal Club Fcsb is not Steaua, and there's no way the Romanian press or Becali's propaganda can get around this.

Thank you.

-TPTB (talk) 15:34, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Personal attacks by 120.17.210.246 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

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I got an advise to "fuck off" from 120.17.210.246 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) [198] (for the context, I am the blocking admin). Could someone please teach them manners? Thank you.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have blocked the IP and extended the block on Cathry (talk·contribs) to two weeks (pretty clear WP:DUCK unless anyone disagrees?). WJBscribe (talk) 17:14, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So you're going to call WP:DUCK on Cathry (assumedly in Russia or somewhere Russian speaking?), because some random, with zero similar style, on a mobile carrier in a completely different country said something? Where are all these VPN's terminating over 4G that you speak of? Some quality justice you've got handing out there. Amazing that Cathrys original block decision didn't even take into account evidence from the person who's edit she was undoing deletion of (mine). Even more sad that you don't even care less about how terribly broken Wikipedia is and let admins get away with the rubbish in that WP:EW claim, for her single undos they didn't like. Zero objectivity or accountability. Way to teach Cathry about helping a stranger there. You should be ashamed and Wikipedia should respect a modicum of privacy, instead of discriminating against people without accounts. Anyway, signing off for 48hrs. Or maybe for good. You can guarantee you've kissed away any donations EVER again from me too. 120.18.160.40 (talk) 17:55, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. That's also a security vulnerability. You're teaching people to play duck to DoS others. You should think that one through a bit more.
You should probably have disclosed your own connection on the Russian wiki (apparently) too User:Ymblanter. To anyone who was watching (like me), it just had some strange stench of vendetta and likely COI.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.17.81.238 (talkcontribs)
Since you are explicitly evading a block, I just reblock this IP.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Will no one think of the bastards?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/117.246.70.154 Anmccaff (talk) 19:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked by Ymblanter Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:40, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Deeply thinking about bastards.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Man, that was quick; the block appears to have come in after I'd opened their talk page, but before I'd pasted the {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~ Anmccaff (talk) 19:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the article history, I expect they will be back soon from a slightly different IP-address. Kleuske (talk) 19:45, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I protected Tamils for two weeks as a clear-cut case; the other two I would possibly decline if they show up at RFPP.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:51, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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deletion of legitimate article that uses correct WP:MANUAL and WP:COMPANY and accusation that i work for said company.

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User:Seraphimblade has deleted the page Webster Public Relations and claimed (G11: Unambiguous advertising or promotion) there was no promotion NOR advertising at all in the article, the article used well-known news and media sources/refs and the company is even cited for having 16 clients that are in the 100 greatest country artist of all time. This company is legitimate and is widely known in the entertainment industry. Notability standards for this company is a big ole "duh", any google searches done before deletion would have shown.

Although User:Seraphimblade may not like PR companies, the company Webster Public Relations or some of its current pr, that is NOT a legitimate reason for deletion if the company's article abides by the wikicode of notability, non-advertisement and has appropriate ref links.

not all of us like or believe in the values of the KKK article for example and yet it is a factual and cultural existence in our world and thus its article will not be deleted either.

just because the subject of this article is a media/pr company it has every right to be treated with the same wiki code of respect as other notable public relations companies and organizations on Wikipedia like Public Relations Global NetworkPublic_Relations_Global_Network who is not accused of "advertising" in its wiki article.

The press is not automatically the enemy because wikipedia has plenty of notable pr and press companies listed.

The 2nd thing I would like addressed is the accusation by Animalparty (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)User:Animalparty that I work for the company Webster Public Relations WP:PAID and WP:DISCLOSE, which I do not. I simply do not. I also work in Nashville in the entertainment industry and have many high-profile clients, I am not a "pr agent" as User:Animalparty has accused me of. and I only have unique access to good solid factual information because of my position. So I am not connected to Webster Public Relations in any sort of conflict of interest.

they, Webster Public Relations have done good things for the country music community and the country music business and they deserve to be listed in an article simply because they are a household name in that world. that's it.

I don't work for them neither did the article have any advertising in it whatsoever.

Carey James Balboa (talk) 23:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No company has any "rights" on Wikipedia, least of all the "right" to have an article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:50, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was gooing to comment that I couldn't evaluate the article because it had been deleted, but you've recreated it, which you shouldn't have done, and will probably get you blocked from editing. But now that you've done so, I agree with the deletion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:53, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Page has been reposted in full. I'll send page Webster Public Relations to AfD as a procedural solution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Legacypac (talkcontribs) 19:59, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Post-script

The article's been deleted at AfD, and the editor blocked as advertising/promotional only account. This is the post I was working on when all of that occurred, which I'm putting here to be on the record if and when this editor re-appears with a new account:

User:Careyjamesbalboa's user page had on it [204], until it was tagged for speedy deletion, a link to Carey James International, a "A Private Boutique Intelligence Agency" which provides "Premium technology, intelligence and consulting for elite businesses, artists, firms, and creatives." The site has a client list which makes it clear that Carey James International is a PR firm. The editor is the creator of Webster Public Relations, which lists among its clients [205] Dolly Parton, Lifehouse, Kenny Rogers, and Kid Rock. Careyjamesbalboa has made edits to the article about all of these artists, primarily to add the name of Webster Public Relation's principal, and images of that person with those artists. I have reverted all of these edits.

Clearly the editor behind this account had been paid for those edits, and is therefore a paid editor who has not acknowledged being paid.

Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:17, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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FleetCommand and their harassment

Over the past couple of years, FleetCommand, has made it difficult for me to make contributions to Wikipedia. It has come to a point where he now wishes me dead!

Here is the one that really has gotten to me: 1 In this case they:

  • called me "our most stupid editor"
  • wrote "every time I read his name, it is bad news"
  • said I "pulled stupid stunts"
  • and stated "When he dies, I will certainly celebrate"

Other examples:

  • 2 3 failed to state what I did wrong, reverted redirect, and did not address the ambiguous issue. Yes, the dab page wasn't perfect, but TV (software could refer to apps on TVs
  • In this diff 4 he failed to assume good faith, and stated "Oh, great. WikIan contributing more crap" and "his person doesn't know why we do things when we do them." as if WP:ABF and WP:OWN were rules to live by. All I did 5 was add an image. I did it through the Visual Editor, so I did not know that it caused a mobile issue.
  • Next was the issue with Microsoft's branding 6 Initially he attacked me for finding sources for Outlook on the web was the name of two services, in fact MS changed their mind, but he blatantly reverted my edits multiple times without backing up his sources
  • Previously this year he stated 7 I was "wrong in every dispute so far"

I was hoping s/he would accept that I make mistakes, but all is in good faith. I've been editing for awhile, but this person seems to think I'm a kindergartener editing Wikipedia for the first time. This has gone way too far. WikIan -(talk) 02:07, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Irrespective of the content dispute or editing competence, stating that When he dies, I will certainly celebrate is completely unacceptable. Blackmane (talk) 02:30, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Non-administrator comment) Agree with Blackmane, with the caveat that that particular part of the comment could be an extremely off-colour joke (that should nevertheless be blanked and possibly rev-delled). @FleetCommand: Did you mean that in sincerity? You should, at the very least, strike it -- almost any admin would readily block you for a remark like that, regardless of whether you were right about WikIan's content edits. As to whether you were right about their edits -- they appear to have a clean block log, so if you have tried to bring their "disruption" to the attention of the community before this point you should probably provide some evidence. If it's just your opinion, then you should shut up about it because accusations like that are not acceptable. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:35, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Wikipedia community necessarily requires a collegial operating environment. This means that we should not be calling other editors stupid or hoping for their deaths, whether or not it was said in jest or in a moment of anger. Such comments should not even be made towards confirmed trolls or the truly disruptive. FleetCommand's comment is not an acceptable use of Wikipedia as a matter of policy. It should be removed per WP:NPA, among other policies. I do not believe a block is necessary based solely on that comment, but there may be other misconduct that I have not seen which indicate that a block is necessary to prevent further disruption to the editing environment. At the very least, FleetCommand should consider himself sternly warned that further such comments can and will result in a block. Pure NPA blocks (as opposed to ones for vandalism, NOTHERE, etc.) are rather rare in this day and age, but I can see one being issued in short order. As to whether further sanctions should lie, in my view this should be based on whether there is a pattern of disruption. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 05:55, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • As an aside, I have notified FleetCommand of this thread. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 05:57, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment by the talk page holder, Codename Lisa: Hello, earthlings! I am away for one day, and you start a war on my talk page! Tch, tch! You naughty, naughty people. Has someone here been a baaaaaaaaaad boy? Face-wink.svg Joke aside, there is a lot of bad blood between FleetCommand and WikIan. Back in 2016, WikIan tried to merge Outlook.com and Outlook on the web articles into a new Outlook Mail article and had a clash with yours truly, Jeh, ViperSnake151, and FleetCommand. Ever since, I have had a feeling that WikiIan has been deliberately trying to do edits that provoke the auditor.
On this certain occasion, WikIan has made 61 edits involving renaming articles whose titles ended with "(software)", a direct violation of ArbCom ruling highlighted in MOS:STABILITY, a deviation from our naming scheme, a violation of WP:DAB on at least three accounts. After being in Wikipedia for 7 years, does he not know that disambiguation pages end with (disambiguaiton), not (software)? JE98 found it suspicious and tried to notify me. In reponse, WikIan said something that looks highly inaccurate to me, perhaps even dishonest. He more or less denied having done anything dramatic. The provocation theme comes to my mind. At worst, he is engaged in deliberate disruption of Wikipedia and harassment. At best, he is engaged in unintentional disruption rising from lack of competence.
Then again, feel free to dismiss all this as conspiracy theory. I think the solution is still the same: WikIan must accept that he has room for improvements (acres of it, actually) and he is late doing it by seven years. He can't just push everyone's button and come here crying that people whose buttons were pushed didn't treat him well. At one point, someone will come to the conclusion that it is him who must stop button-pushing.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 07:48, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you User:Codename Lisa. So, FleetCommand's comment was completely out of line and should be stricken as a personal attack and they should be cautioned about civility and told to read over NPA again, and we should either sanction or sternly warn WikIan for their own misbehaviour? I am sorry, but I have very little patience for people who deliberately goad and provoke other editors, and then immediately play the victim once the other editors are pushed over the brink. @WikIan: is Codename Lisa's outline of the events leading up to the edit you link accurate? Specifically, can you disprove her feeling that WikiIan has been deliberately trying to do edits that provoke the [other e]ditor? Under normal circumstances, per WP:AGF, I would not place the burden of defending yourself on you (it's FC and CL's responsibility to substantiate their own accusations), but technically in this case you came here asking for sanctions against someone who posted a comment that looks provoked, so you really can't expect the rest of us to simply assume your side of the story is completeky accurate. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:25, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) By the way: The fact that the OP has opened three ANEW reports, one on FC which resulted in a two-way warning, and never been reported himself makes me somewhat inclined to believe Codename Lisa that this is a bellicose user trying to trick other users into getting into trouble. Two-way edit-warring that one party chooses to forum-shop to ANEW should send up red flags, and the fact that the edit linked by the OP shows an intent to report them on ANI makes me very much think this thread was opened in an attempt to get FC before FC got them. I'm sorry if I'm misreading something, but the more I look into this the more I think a BOOMERANG should be coming. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:46, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Hijiri88: It is not just that. Please see this:
"2 3 failed to state what I did wrong". Well, that's outright dishonest. The following sentence seems not only a good-faith attempt to explain but also an accurate and conscise one:

Partial title matches and items without link are not allowed. If you don't want to read WP:DAB and MOS:DAB, at least read WP:DDD.

WikIan is insulted directly; I understand that. But that does not justify lying to us.
"but TV (software) could refer to apps on TVs". No! It could not. Everyone knows that parenthetical suffixes are for disambiguation only. Furthermore... (Sigh!) Oh, my! There is so much to explain. Yes, WikIan, please study WP:DAB and MOS:DAB, or at least WP:DDD.
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:35, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, I saw those too. I think WikIan wants us to interpret all of the previous, at-worst-slightly-uncivil, remarks in light of the later When he dies, I will certainly celebrate, when in reality WikIan has not seven diffs of FC harassing them but one diff of FC overreacting to WikIan harassing them. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:46, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whatever your view of the underlying content, "Oh, great. WikIan contributing more crap" is an extremely uncollegial way to approach editing and the first diff cited above is completely unacceptable. Per NPA, It is as unacceptable to attack a user with a history of foolish or boorish behavior, or one who has been blocked, banned, or otherwise sanctioned, as it is to attack any other user. @FleetCommand: I really hope you're going to refactor/strike those comments when you come back online. GoldenRing (talk) 09:03, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GoldenRing: Indeed. Unacceptable is the word. I've already removed the whole "unacceptable" thread, so there is nothing for FC to do.
As for my view of the matter, we have two unacceptable things, neither of which justify the other. Both should be addressed for the good of Wikipedia. We must make it a point that we tolerate neither. I think it would be best for both editors to shake hands, one promising no future insults and the other promising a sincere attempt to improve self and learn from our veterans. —Codename Lisa (talk) 09:52, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree. I think FC should apologize, but there's no tradition of forcing people to apologize for off-colour remarks that have already been blanked, unless they actively try to restore them. There is the problem, though, of WikIan's behaviour; I think if this thread gets closed as Offending comment has been blanked. Nothing more to be done. (read: implying the disruption was one-sided) that will just embolden them and encourage more disruption. That said, unless more evidence is forthcoming I'd say a strong warning, specifically a promise of a block next time they make another of the offending edits, might be enough. Hijiri 88 (やや) 10:32, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am thinking a little beyond that. My role in this is what I must not neglect. (There was a reason all this happened in my talk page.) For now, I have disengaged from all Apple-related software articles and have removed them from my watchlist, except for two cases where my involvement was a matter of the elephant in the room. (I participated in one before noticing this dicussion. I also granted a template edit request; monitoring the aftermath in Apple Wallet is simply my responsibility.) Still, 14 less items in my watchlist should help WikIan see less of me and de-escalate matter. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 11:26, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • First, I don't edit Wikipedia for a living. Yes, I make mistakes, but I do think my positive contributions have outweighed those. @FleetCommand: is the only user to specifically target my edits and either revert them or challenge them on a regular basis. CL and others have reverted edits (this is natural due to WP:BRD cycle), but not in a way that personally insults me or aggressively challenges all edits because they may do drastic changes. There is no guideline against drastic changes if they improve Wikipedia.
  • Furthermore, I am not super involved as CL or FC are in Wikipedia's guideline or ArbCom rulings. Furthermore, I have taken CL's advice on many of my edits. I checked the backlinks to make sure the page moves didn't break anything. This is when I ran into a problem with the double redirects, which logically seemed to be solved with dab pages.
  • I have had a feeling that WikiIan has been deliberately trying to do edits that provoke the auditor Yea, why would I do this? I was wrong (though not at the time) for the Outlook.com/OOTW debacle. I'll admit that was due to Microsoft not knowing themselves. And who, might I add, have the time to specifically target a single person unless they edit a lot? If I was targeting FC, I'd be all up in his watchlist and ONLY editing whatever he edits with vandalism.
  • If you want to know my thought process this time around, I (as usual) was looking for Article Title Consistency according to WP:CRITERIA and also don't you guys realize we are violating WP:NPOV by favoring Apple with the "software" redirect?
  • The fact that the OP has opened three ANEW reports I'm sorry... but now I'm a fault for reporting people? I'm pretty sure others have opened up reports for me too. Check the logs. For both WikIan and my old username. Whatever I bring to the Administrators attention is within Wikipedia guidelines. There is no fault in doing so. Also, isn't this an admin noticeboard? I'd like an admin to handle this actively as well.
  1. Target link at start? Check. All of my links were at the start (except one, TV (software)). Whoops, but that doesn't that aside, TV (software) is obviously what someone would look for if they are researching apps for their TV. (read: ambiguous)
  2. Keep descriptions short. Check.
  3. Sections. Don't need.
  4. Primary topic: well, TV (software) is incredibly ambiguous. Talk:TV_(Apple), see that discussion. I mean come on, seriously, this is just ambiguous. Yes, it was a change, but many of the other Apple articles used (Apple) parenthetical disambiguation. that user had to ruin it according to the talk page. Yeah? So what? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you WP:OWN Wikipedia. As also stated "Too many apps/services" is subjective Emir of Wikipedia, not me. CL and FC, your prejudice against me also opposes other editors.
  5. Wiktionary and incoming links weren't needed, and I didn't think it needed cleanup. There were not multiple blue links, (there was one piped link), I didn't add an entry w/o a blue link or w/ a red link. I didn't include EVERY article containing the title.
  6. I also didn't include any dictionary definition or external links.
  • No! It could not. How so?
  • implying the disruption was one-sided If you wish me off of Wikipedia I will leave. I don't want to go, but if you are turning this against me, I will. I haven't caused disruption, except to those editors who are just used to the way things haven't changed, even though they directly violate WP:NPOV, and then turn around and yell I'm violating WP:DDD
Good day to you all, WikIan -(talk) 18:45, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @WikIan: You wrote: "Yea, why would I do this? I was wrong" Very well. Let's say I believe you, as Hanlon's razor says. But understand this:
  1. It does not matter how you assess your level of activity; given your level of participation in Wikipedia, length of service, and the troubles in which you have been (mentioned above by yourself, I and Hijiri88), your knowledge and understanding of our rules, guidelines and practices is insufficient. Improve it. Pretexts save you once, not twice.
  2. Your recent changes in the Apple software area was wrong. Make it you mission to find out why.
Feel free to ignore all I said or protest. Time is a cruel mistress. She will see to it that you will learn the hard way in due course.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 05:42, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again, I'm not trying to "play dumb" here. If I were, I'd say that I didn't know WP:DDD existed. My interpretation of what I did (for the reasons above), though not perfect, is that it contributed in a positive way to those articles. Tell me, is Health (Apple) more ambiguous than Health (software)? If not, I'd like to know if that's what you are referring to in the case of Your recent changes in the Apple software area was wrong.
Again, looking at WP:DDD, which I did in the above list, I don't see what I did wrong, except not put a blue link at the start of the entry. JE98 said (paraphrasing here) "there were too many entries to list in the DAB page", which led me to believe I made a mistake. However, according to the guideline, you don't have to list every entry with that title. WikIan -(talk) 06:16, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lesson one: Stay on topic. The topic of this thread is "harassment", you, and "FleetCommand". To begin your learning, drop me a note on my talk page. —Codename Lisa (talk) 12:02, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding the underlying (article title) content dispute, there are open move discussions at TV (Apple) and Wallet (software). power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just had to remove an attack on FC by WI in this thread. FC's previous comment was completely unacceptable as well. Both of you cut out the personal attacks or you'll be blocked for a month (this is my go-to solution to feuds, and it has had some minor success in the past). --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:09, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait ... I agree with Floq that blanking that was a good idea, but ... well, look at it. The image has apparently been taken down, but did WikIan just admit to "recruiting" people (his real-world friends?) to harass FleetCommand off-wiki? That's way more serious than saying on-wiki "I wish he were dead". WikIan claimed on his talk page that he did not support or condone the posting of that stuff that he linked (whatever it was), but the fact that it disappeared at apparently the same time as Floq told him off indicates that either he was the one who posted it or he was in contact with them. It might be my own history with off-wiki harassment (which literally included posting images of me on a website similar to tinypics and linking them on-wiki) biasing me, but this certainly feels like the worst thing that has come up in this discussion so far. WikIan, Floq let you off very easy by not blocking you; most admins would not be as kind. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:35, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Off-wiki harassment is a serious matter, because it can easily misfire at the wrong person. During the time that FA was pressuring me to bring FleetCommand out of retirement, I discovered that the user accounts of "FleetCommand" registered on @hotmail.com, @gmail.com, Wikia (it is "Fleet Command" with a space), SourceForge, GamesFAQ, GameSpot and a couple of other place (I've forgotten) do not belong to our FleetCommand. These people even have the same avatar because that certain avatar is originally distributed by Relic Entertainment. If the harasser is lucky, the person harassed is a high-ranking official of the United States Fleet Forces Command and he just laughs – unlike in the films, where he calls CIA black ops.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 11:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wow. Okay. I think FleetCommand's statements make a bit more sense, even if they're still contrary to policy. I don't quite understand what WikIan posted, but the pivot away from the properly objectionable matter (the comment) to more grey policy questions gives me the impression of someone who grabbed hold of something in order to bring a tangentially related dispute to this forum. I'm not to the point where I think a boomerang is appropriate, but I'm definitely becoming less impressed with WikIan's participation in this thread as it drags on. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 13:19, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88:, you seriously need to stop implying things. You're almost becoming like FC, assuming I did things for bad intentions. The image was a screenshot (privately linked) to a screenshot of what could be considered vandalism, so I removed it because it was in bad taste. As for what he assumed I did wrong, may I remind you all WP:BURO. If I believe my content contributes to Wikipedia, then I have the right to do so. What happens next is up to consensus, not one user targeting another. And to quote the topic of this thread is "harassment", specifically my case against FC's rude comments and request for multiple administrators consensus. Not Hijiri88's. Floq let you off very easy by not blocking you, if I posted vandalism or doxxing content to a publically accessible, non-removable website, this comment would make sense. But again... I did not do that. I simply screenshotted what I saw here on Wikipedia.
someone who grabbed hold of something in order to bring a tangentially related dispute to this forum Perhaps, I provided evidence of FC's aggressiveness to other users. It was in bad taste (screenshot of resulting vandalism), that's why its gone.WikIan -(talk) 22:06, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So... you admit that it was you who posted the image (whatever it was)? Have you engaged in any other off-wiki discussion of FleetCommand? Because you should know that, if this is a recurring problem as User:Codename Lisa implies, while it doesn't excuse "When he dies, I will certainly celebrate", it does mean that if FleetCommand gets a block or any other editing restriction out of this, your own will likely be harsher. I agree with User:Mendaliv that it still is not necessarily at that point. You could strike everything you've written here, apologize to FleetCommand, request that this thread be closed, and get back to building an encyclopedia. Or you could let the discussion drag out and see what happens. Hijiri 88 (やや) 22:22, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: There you go again, implying I had contact outside of Wikipedia... I have not, that was a screenshot of something HERE on Wikipedia, and I don't even know who FC is. What you're saying is that I was doxxing him, and as I already said I didn't. Stop implying bad faith again. The recurring problem is that FC is targeting my edits and insulting me directly. If this community chooses to ban people who report offensive language to the people who can handle it, why should I want to be a part of this community? If this community chooses to follow its own guidelines, and punish inappropriate behavior, and disregard any prior bias, I will proudly remain an editor here. I'm not sure why your own will likely be harsher would ever become a reality. I have never EVER posted anything that is outside the scope of Wikipedia anywhere else. WikIan -(talk) 22:38, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You posted an image of some kind on an off-wiki forum, then linked it on-wiki, explicitly claiming that it had been posted by someone else (And, no, I did not create those entries/accounts. A bunch of people know about the borderline hounding) and that you condemned them for it (I support absolutely no harassment or vandalism of any kind. You were then forced to admit that you were the one who uploaded the image (whatever it was) onto tinypics when I pointed out that the image had disappeared as soon as Floq called you out for it. Forgive me if I am missing some key component of this that makes posting an image to tinypic.com -- with the apparent intention of attacking, demeaning, intimidating or otherwise harassing a member of the Wikipedia community -- not exactly what happened here, but you don't appear to be able or willing to deny that. You are instead focusing on attacking me with strawman arguments: I don't know what the content of the image was, nor have I "implied" that I do know, and I don't even know what "doxxing" is, so how I could have accused you of it is beyond me. If something about what I actually said (rather than what you think I "implied") was in some way inaccurate, please explain. Remember, I was entirely on your side here until Codename Lisa told her side of the story, so I'm definitely willing to change my mind if some aspect of my assessment of the situation is wrong. Hijiri 88 (やや) 23:39, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Floquenbeam's comments below. If you are inclined to believe CL, I want you to know all that facts. While I respect s/he as a dutiful editor, as stated they br[ought] FleetCommand out of retirement and have interactions in an IM chat off-wiki not to mention CL and FC come in paris. CL is not in question here, as I have never been directly insulted multiple times by this person. WikIan -(talk) 04:46, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am so tired of people at ANI assuming they know what they hell they are talking about when they don't. I actually dealt with it yesterday, so don't need people suggesting things that should be done to address their imagined problems, but to prevent the inevitable question on my talk page: WikIan took a screenshot of on-wiki personal attacks on FleetCommand by other people over the course of several years, posted the screenshot to an image hosting service, and said he thought it was funny and evidence of how FleetCommand angers people. No off-wiki harassment, no recruiting others. Now, that was a real dick move. But not, IMHO, as bad as saying you'd be happy to see another editor dead (and, to be fair, it was done in partial retaliation for saying that). The image was removed by WikIan from the hosting service, I issued a warning, and we're done. As I said before, if this doesn't stop I suggest 1 month blocks for either editor at the next hint of personal attacks. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:30, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, I never assumed anything. I asked a question and WikIan's repeated dodging of said question and hurling nonsense accusations back at me was beginning to incline me to believe the worst. And collecting screenshots of people attacking him from over a multi-year period and posting them to an image-hosting site is still harassment, and it is technically off-site. The only real difference between that and what happened to me is that there was apparently no on-wiki outing involved (and I never said or even implied that there was). Everything I said still stands even now that I am no longer "assuming [I] know what the hell [I am] talking about when [I] don't", and WikIan's evasiveness (or, rather, deflectiveness) is just as disruptive whether the assumption I wasn't acutally making was right or wrong.Hijiri 88 (やや) 07:39, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, screw it. I have better things to do with my editing privileges than get blocked for expressing an opinion in a dispute I'm not even party to, and I've seen such things happen too much lately. Put more poetically, that's not the hill I want to die on. I guess I'm in for another month-long self-imposed ANI PBAN. If this dispute does continue any longer than it already has (and I agree with Floq that this should have already ended), the closer can feel free to either ignore everything I have said or read it and take it for what it's worth, but I would appreciate not being pinged anymore. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • More evidence back in 2015 FC called my edits "hostile", when in fact through consensus, the infobox stands closer to what originally was there, than the changes that FC made and reverted my "hostile" revert. WikIan -(talk) 05:02, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Diffs from two years ago are not generally actionable, and if you want to convince us that he was wrong to call your edits hostile, behaving in the very hostile fashion you have in this thread is not going to help. Calling a fish a fish is not a personal attack, and it's not harassment (unlike going back over someone's edits from years ago desperately looking for "dirt" on them). And even though this is not about your content disputes from two years ago -- yes, you were wrong to blankly revert an edit to reinsert bad changes as well as good, and claiming that consensus later decided that some or even most of your revert was good completely misses the point. You should learn the law of holes: if every piece of "evidence" you post makes your own actions look worse (in this case, you apparently don't understand that consensus retroactively deciding to reinstate a lot of your edit doesn't conflict with FC's saying that while a lot of your edit may be good, it reinstated bad material as well), then you should stop posting said evidence. And only about half of your edit related to the infobox anyway. On top of that, you reverted FC's edits with an edit summary that solely cited BRD, as though BRD was a blanket rationale for reverting any edit you don't like without explaining what you thought was so "bold" about the edits, when ironically you have been freely making large unilateral edits to that page consistently. And the talk page discussion has been pretty inactive ever since November 2015 when this "incident" occurred, so it seems very much like "consensus" means you waiting for FC to get tired of reverting you, then coming back and unilaterally reinstating your edits.Hijiri 88 (やや) 07:39, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See above. The "not being pinged anymore" is in reference to WikIan's repeated/uninvited pinging of me further up the thread, in case it isn't clear. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Participation here is not compulsory. Please consider whether engaging further has any benefit before clicking save. Johnuniq (talk) 23:50, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hijiri88 seriously needs to stop contributing to AI. Once again he has waded in to something which doesn't concern him, failed to understand the issue properly, issued poor advice and spammed the page with screeds of waffle which he inevitably ends up having to strike, and has only escalated things. Why is he consistently allowed to do this? 62.255.118.6 (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:Avaya1 disruptive editing

Avaya1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was a subject of Arbitration Enforcement in the past with result: "Avaya1 now subject to 0RR on articles related to Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted.", so initially I posted my complaint at WP:AE#Avaya1. Admin decided that the edits at issue are not in the WP:ARBPIA topic area and took no action, so I'm moving it here, with updates.

On 14 September 2017, a consensus was reached on Talk:Israel to remove an image from Israel article, with three in support, one neutral and no oppose.

  1. 15 September 2017, I removed the image, citing talk page.
  2. 18 September 2017, Avaya1 reverted me.
  3. 18 September 2017, I reverted Avaya1.
  4. 26 September 2017, Avaya1 reverted me.
  5. 26 September 2017, I reverted Avaya1.

First, Avaya1 cited a year-old consensus regarding the issue ignoring the new consensus. Then, on the talk page he stated that I am forcing the change and no one else supporting it, although clearly it's another user who initiated the request. Now he's telling lies there, that I implemented the change before the new consensus was reached.

Also, I added photo of IDF soldiers instead of photo of a beach, that Avaya1 added earlier this year to the military section of Israel:

  1. 14 September 2017, I added appropriate photo with explanation.
  2. 18 September 2017, Avaya1 removed it with summary "rmv aggressive img" (although this is perfectly non-controversial photo showing soldiers in the military section of the article) ...
  3. 18 September 2017, ... and added back photo of a beach.
  4. 18 September 2017, I reverted Avaya1.
  5. 26 September 2017, Avaya1 reverted me citing "No consensus to include this img", although there's no consensus to include his image, either.
  6. 26 September 2017, and then he added another photo without explaining.
  7. 26 September 2017, which I reverted.

Overall, for a user, who's on Wikipedia for over 10 years with 20,000+ edits, Avaya1's behavior is very unprofessional and disruptive. He's often ignoring other editors, leaving no edit summaries, and making technically clumsy edits like a newbie. I went through some of his latest contributions:

In Kurds, he blatantly ignores other editor, like he did in Israel:

  1. 18 September 2017, Avaya1 made series of edits
  2. 20 September 2017, other user partly revert him, with summary: "restoring more recent cited figures to box"
  3. 20 September 2017, Avaya1 perform full revert, with summary: "removed for some reason"

In Valerie Plame, he made 75 (!) edits in one day, most are without summaries. Look how insignificant the result is, and keep in mind that there's almost no changes by other users in-between:

  1. 22 September 2017

--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 08:23, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Triggerhippie4 has copy and pasted his arbitration request which yesterday was closed down as not actionable. I will copy and paste my comment on the matter from yesterday's arbitration request.
The full discussion was viewable here. Avaya1 (talk) 13:05, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On the off chance that somebody is actually interested in looking into this—and nobody could blame you for wanting to turn away—I recommend that she or he review the edit history of Israel (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views), where these two editors have been engaged in a slow-moving edit war since March 2016. Remarkably, it has nothing to do with the Arab–Israeli conflict, just two editors who have different visions of how to "improve" an article. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:03, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, Malik Shabazz, it's about Avaya1's conduct. Did you actually look into this yourself? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:58, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The article has been on my watchlist for more than eight years, so I'm very much aware of the cat-and-mouse games the two of you have been playing for the past 18 months. I recommend you read WP:BOOMERANG. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 11:29, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Explain with examples, please. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns about 8Dodo8's use of rollback

Earlier today I got a notification that my edit to remove deprecated image syntax was reverted by 8Dodo8. Upon looking further into who 8Dodo8 was - I discovered an unfortunate pattern of 8Dodo8 using the tool to give themselves an advantage in a content dispute on FC Steaua București. There seems to be a disagreement on what to use for the name of the football club between User:GrizzlyBear2002 and 8Dodo8 - both editors have been edit warring at the page.

Regardless of who's "right", using rollback on multiple occasions doesn't help settle the content dispute; let alone when coupled with an all-caps edit summary early on in the dispute.

In separate occurences, 8Dodo8 has used rollback to revert constructive edits that they disagree with.

Given the several occasions where the 8Dodo8 has misused the tool, I do not think the user is fit to retain access to rollback. Jon Kolbert (talk) 21:29, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. User has already been informed of the purpose of it at Special:PermaLink/775775488#User:8Dodo8. I also don't see them using it for anti-vandalism efforts. Misuse of rollback is probably my biggest pet peeve, so I fully support removal for both the lack of need and misuse of the tool. — nihlus kryik (talk) 22:19, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
1. I reverted your edit because all the big football clubs use the 190px or something like that for their club badges.
2. I used the rollback tool many times on the FC Steaua page because GrizzlyBear and multiple users are constantly vandalasing the page. The name of the club is Fotbal Club FCSB as seen in the source I provided, but Grizzly kept changing it. I also used it because many vandals change the content on the page, as there isa division betwen its supporters. I actually requested for the page to be indefinetely protected so we could avoid this issue.
If you guys animously consider that I used the tool in a right way, I will understand and you can remove it from my account.8Dodo8 (talk·contribs) 11:25, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this is misuse of the rollback tool. Both of these are content disputes. WP:NOT VANDALISM. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 11:44, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well I incorrectly considered the second issue as vandalism and I also thought the tool can be used for other thinkgs other than vandalism. I should have read the policies more carefully.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 13:16, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • 8Dodo8, are you aware of the policy now, and can you tell us if you'll abide by it? If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you think you can use the tool and use it properly you might could keep it. Drmies (talk) 20:45, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of the policy now and I always wanted to abide by it, it's my mistake that I didn't pay attention. I will only use it when there is a clear sign of vandalism, not good faith edits or anything like that. You decide if I deserve to keep it.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 13:00, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • And yet more Romanian football silliness. EEng 15:04, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Undiscussed move based on personal opinion

I would like to report that editor IbrahimWeed moved the article 1991 uprisings in Iraq to 1991 Iraqi coup d'état attempt without discussion, just a month after finding no support for his previous move attempt on the article's talk page, nor providing any sources for the move. Also, in the previous discussion, the editor expressed a desire to move the article based on his personal opinion of the conflict and ignoring what sources were most commonly naming it. He also has a history of making undiscussed and unsourced move attempts based on his personal opinion, like with Iraqi Civil War (2014–present), where he was reverted two times and found overwhelming opposition on the talk page to his actions. He has also moved Hawija offensive (2017) to Battle of Hawija (2017–present), again without discussion and despite sources mostly referring to the operation as an offensive and not a battle. Both moves should be reverted and the editor should be made aware that he should rather engage in discussions on the talk pages instead of making unilateral moves, as well as providing sources for any future moves. I have also made @DrStrauss: aware of his actions. DrStrauss reverted him one of the two times before when he made his unilateral/POV moves that were against consensus. DrStrauss also closed his previous move request for 1991 uprisings in Iraq with the result being not moved. @El C: also previously reverted him and warned him of his actions, but apparently to no effect. I have notified the editor in question of this discussion as well, however, I should also note during previous discussion attempts he showed no desire to engage. EkoGraf (talk) 06:32, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Being bold is fine but being unconstructive is not. I believe WP:CIR is the appropriate thumbrule and his refusal to engage won't get him further. --QEDK () 17:08, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Possible WP:BLPPRIVACY violation by Redheadsworld

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user disclosed a phone number in their edit at an NFL player's article. -- (Radiphus) 19:31, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I revdel'ed the edit as it contained personal information (someone's private phone number). RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@RickinBaltimore: I think your finger slipped and you got the edit summary instead of the text. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:40, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well it's been suppressed so....RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:42, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • A gentle reminder that reports like this shouldn't be further advertised by posting them here. Either quietly contact your friendly neighborhood admin, or email oversight-en-wp@wikimedia.org . EEng 19:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I should have thought of that. -- (Radiphus) 19:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Single purpose account for mass adding articles by a number of PhD students for paid experiment on Wikipedia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Had already been warned.[206]. Continued. This is what they call science... (I know it does not belong here, but read the article, one author is at MIT, and the quality is laughable, just as the encyclopedic quality of many articles added here - which is why so many were deleted.) User_talk:Carolineneil#Single purpose account for experiment on Wikipedia: should be banned. Antimanipulator (talk) 10:31, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Antimanipulator:Carolineneil hasn't edited in three months, blocking here would be punitive - I'm interested how a new editor came across this though -- There'sNoTime(to explain) 10:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would assume they came across it by way of this paper which they linked on the user's talk page. ♠PMC(talk) 10:42, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Blocks should encourage a more productive, congenial editing style within community norms". An account used by a group of PhD students with a poor understanding of encyclopedias (hence bad citations, lemmas) and no respect for rules on disclosure of paid contributions, single purpose accounts, and conflicts of interest should be banned. Antimanipulator (talk) 10:46, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The paper suggests that the project had the WMF's blessing (it credits Dario Taraborelli), so presumably the implications of what they were doing were considered... Yunshui 10:47, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Paper may suggest whatever it does, the project blatantly violates Wikipedia rules, and contributions were poor, hence many articles not even created: Draft:Conjugation in ultraviolet–visible spectrometry, Draft:Tethered Intramolecular (2+2) Reactions, Draft:Generation of Carbocationic Synthons, Draft:Use of pi,pi, CH-pi and pi-cation interactions in supramolecular assembly, Draft:Substrate Control: Asymmetric Induction By Molecular Framework in Cyclic Systems, Draft:Glucose Chain Shortening and Lengthening, Draft:Stock Sampling (Stock of Data), Draft:Reagent Control: Addition of Chiral Allylmetals to Achiral Aldehydes, Draft:Reagent control: chiral electrophiles, Draft:Heteroskedasticity and nonnormality in the binary response model with latent variable... - sorry, but who could even think that some of these are suitable lemmas for an encyclopedia? - and many nominated for deletion. One commenter could not have guessed better: "*Ultra specialized with little effort to contextualize. Reads like a essay from an student who is being forced to contribute to Wikipedia but the supposedly supervising faculty member has not bothered to read or understand policy and standards."[207] This account drew hundreds of administrator actions, reminders to choose adequate lemmas, discussions about deletion, reminders to improve poor referencing - to no avail, and they are academics!
I think a formal reprimand to the poor supervisors Neil Thompson, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) - Sloan School of Management; MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab (CSAIL), and Douglas Hanley, University of Pittsburgh, is in place.Antimanipulator (talk) 10:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to provide some additional context about WMF's involvement in this research. This is an independent study conducted by academic researchers, and is not endorsed or sponsored by the WMF. It is also not a formal collaboration with WMF or with Wikimedia Research, subject to WMF's collaboration policy. As a general rule, the Foundation is not in a position to "approve" or "decline" individual research proposals, unless there are security or legal reasons to escalate them. Editorial decisions about content, in particular, are not an area the Foundation has any say about. The authors reached out at the time of the proposal to ask about best practices to follow in setting up the proposal and two WMF staffers (Aaron Halfaker and I) advised them on discussing and documenting it in the appropriate spaces. We have been offering this support on a volunteer basis for a few years, and on an ad hoc basis, to help researchers follow best practices around participant recruitment and understanding community norms and expectations. As for outreach initiatives involving students and professors creating or expanding Wikipedia articles, which some comments in this thread brought up, you can read more about Wikipedia:Education program if you're not already familiar with the program. --Dario (WMF) (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've indefinitely blocked the account as that of an undisclosed paid editor. As all edits from the account were paid, this is preventative in the sense that it prevents future paid edits before such a disclosure is made. (And as a side note, the quality of research here is downright awful.) ~ Rob13Talk 13:31, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And as a side note, the quality of research here is downright awful Honestly, I think that's an insult to the word "awful". According to their introduction, they checked scientific papers from 1995-2001 (in addition to later papers, but still) to see if those articles stole text from Wikipedia... AND CONCLUDED THAT THEY DID!!! My guess is that you won't see this work showing up in Nature anytime soon. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:08, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe they have time travel. It's MIT, after all. EEng 16:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Time travel, robotics and artificial intelligence? We may have to take them out before they cause the singularity, though I'd be wary of any bikers with Austrian accents we encounter on the way to do it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:17, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just getting my head around this, but who is alleged to have paid the editor to create the articles? - Bilby (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The authors of this paper. Who shall forever be known as the creators of possibly the worst experimental structure I have ever encountered in my entire life. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:09, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, these are in no way promotional, right? The editor was simply paid to contribute a number of science articles? I'm seeing some sort of need for disclosure, but I'm having a hard time seeing justification for a mass deletion of non-promotional and supposedly accurate articles on scientific topics. And yes, it looks like an oddly formed methodology to me as well. - Bilby (talk) 15:21, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2 cents: I see junk like this all the time from students. I can see the temptation for teachers and professors to have students do a Wikipedia article(s) as an assignment (got to admit it's good practice), but all the results I have ever seen have been uniformly bad, and I've never seen anything good come from a homework assignment. I am strongly opposed to homework assignments getting anywhere near being posted on Wikipedia. Softlavender (talk) 15:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • This was raised in the past, but ignored: Concerns about the user were raised twice at ANI- here and here- so before blaming any potential WMF involvement, we should probably look at why the case of this editor was raised here, and just ignored. This line from Robert McClenon was particularly prescient: "either she is a human, but isn't trying to pretend to be either a human or a bot, or it is a bot, and isn't trying to act like a human. At this point, I recommend a block, in order to get the author to make an unblock request". jcc (tea and biscuits) 16:31, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. Bizarre. As is noted, I thought that there was something peculiar about the account in June. Am I to understand that the conclusion is that the account was conducting an experiment involving Wikipedia? We don't have a policy that explicitly prohibits conducting experiments with Wikipedia; maybe we should, because such accounts are not here to improve the encyclopedia as a collection of knowledge even if they do improve overall human knowledge about encyclopedias. I will add that, when I understood the articles, which I usually did, they appeared to be good science, but they needed improvement, in particular in the addition of links to other articles, and I repeatedly tried to request that the drafts be improved. If my understanding is correct, the account should be blocked (as it is), but for the subtle reason that they aren't here to improve the encyclopedia but to experiment on the authors of the encyclopedia. So I think that I was right in expressing puzzlement about behavior that didn't seem exactly either human or robotic, but something in between. Am I understanding correctly? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As to why the concerns were raised and not acted on further, I think that is clear, that it is because the behavior didn't fall into any of the known types of bad behavior. For instance, even if the author (if there was a single human author) was being paid, it wasn't paid editing in the usual sense, which means paid editing for promotional purposes. (One type of "paid editing", which is editing by a professor about their field of knowledge, is good. It is promotional paid editing that is bad, and this wasn't promotional paid editing.) This really was a sufficiently strange type of misconduct that there is no way we could have expected to recognize it immediately. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not directly promoting their supervisors but indirectly through producing results that they use to promote their career. Paid editing is always bad because it makes the editors edit for reasons other than providing knowledge. In this case, the students just wanted to get a job done and did so by chosing ridiculous lemmas and not caring for proper citations or relating theirs to existing articles. Antimanipulator (talk) 18:30, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:Antimanipulator - You say that paid editing is always bad because it makes the editors edit for reasons other than providing knowledge. In that case, we need to clarify the definition of paid editing. Professors editing in their subject areas are good because they are only sharing their knowledge. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The single purpose account here is Antimanipulator – an account created just today to complain about this and which doesn't seem to have created any articles at all. Why are we punishing the content creator in this case? Do we really prefer having complaints at ANI rather than articles about advanced chemistry? Andrew D. (talk) 16:44, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that anyone is criticizing User:Antimanipulator. At least, they shouldn't be. They should be thanked for reporting this again. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just clean up the mess left over by the misguided PhD students. Have you looked at those articles? It caused a lot of work to many administrators and other users, and they never even bothered to properly cite. I can only write again, their supervisors and their institutions' ethics comittees should be informed about this. (Also about the fact that they only report the positive results in their summary and that they suppress information on how most of their articles were not even accepted here for poor quality). Antimanipulator (talk) 16:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that their supervisors and their institutions' ethics committees should be informed about this. If it is thought that students need to become familiar with how to edit a wiki, MIT can install one on one of its own servers – rather than allow and invite its students to cause disruption on WP. MIT would probably blow-its- top if another educational institution was found to be experimented on MIT servers. The MIT governors should be able to quickly acknowledge that this behavior has brought MIT into disrepute in the cyberworld. Especially as it was by young hopeful PhD's guided buy a MIT employee. Aspro (talk) 19:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Aspro:, @Robert McClenon:, @BU Rob13:: this was led by two young professors who write they use articles of the publisher Elsevier. The article Mesembrine that was largely written by the PhD students has nearly only Elsevier citations. I am trying to check if this is a pattern. If so, this is a much more disturbing case than I already thought initially. Antimanipulator (talk) 20:09, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit lost on where you are coming at on this. The ethics committee would have had to approve this research, and ethically it seems sound - add a number of accurate and useful articles to Wikipedia, then look at how those articles are used elsewhere. This wasn't a breaching experiment, the content was accurate, and the disruption seems fairly minimal. - Bilby (talk) 00:49, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Think we ought to have a 48 hour hold on this before going further. It will allow other editors to get up to speed. Something is amiss alright but this needs more eyes because there maybe a third and unseen party at play and trying to pull our strings. Aspro (talk) 21:19, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is a very odd case. The single purpose account here, as Andrew Davidson points out, is Antimanipulator who may or may not hold some personal grudge with the researchers. The research was conducted ethically in consultation with WMF staffers as outlined by Dario (WMF) above. The experimental design was interesting and very sophisticated. The block on Carolineneil should be lifted. And we should encourage well-planned and ethically conducted research to continue on Wikipedia's impact on the world. --I am One of Many (talk) 15:52, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The experimental design was interesting and very sophisticated. So examining papers which were published before WP even existed and concluding that some of them had copied text from WP is "sophisticated"? There's another S- word that seems more appropriate to me. That being said, I agree that there's something fishy going on with the filers, and that the "experiment" seems to have been done ethically (they weren't creating fake articles, or anything of the sort). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:45, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
They actually did several analyses. The fact that their experimental design was interesting and sophisticated, doesn't mean that their results were as good as they claim. The effect sizes (R^2) were so small that it is difficult to believe that Wikipedia is having much more than a negligible influence on the words used in scientific publications.--I am One of Many (talk) 19:37, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, "sophisticated" in this context suggests things like "not being completely ignorant of the concept of time", so I still disagree. Perhaps the germ of the idea behind it might charitably be called "innovative", but sophistication generally requires some, well, actual sophistication.
Though I haven't mentioned it before, I will say now that I noticed the small size of the effect as well. Small enough that it might be nullified or even reversed if you were to, maybe... Remove about 6 years worth of papers from the published science data set. It seems far more likely to me that WP articles would have taken text from pre-2001 papers than the other way around, but then just because I don't know anyone who's built a time machine doesn't mean no-one has... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 21:11, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Whether the reporter of the issue has a personal motive in reporting it is irrelevant. The problem report is legitimate. The PhD students' SPA's work on-WP was terrible, and wasted a lot of other editors' time, and the off-site work about WP is also terrible; WP was abused to make a WP:POINT, with unsound research methods, and with on-site fallout. SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ< 02:20, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment--Don't see any need to nuke.I was checking the accuracy of 4-5 org-chem drafts and not much was wrong.I also fail to get why this is described as unethical support in describing this as unethical.Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 11:00, 30 September 2017 (UTC)Edited at 11:54, 30 September 2017 (UTC) [reply]
As a side-note, the block seems to be good.The accounts were after-all paid SPAs.And obviously, as MPants said the research is a dis-service to the word awful.Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 11:00, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Godric on Leave and Winged Blades of Godric: Could you clarify? Those two statements appear to completely contradict each other: "I was checking the accuracy of 4-5 org-chem drafts and not much was wrong" but "the research is a dis-service to the word awful"? And "I also fail to get why this is described as unethical" but "The accounts were after-all paid SPAs"? Softlavender (talk) 11:08, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Surely.That their method of research was seriously flawed and utterly _______ has hardly to do anything with the quality of the info they have put at the drafts that they have written here.Whilst they doesn't have a ssnowball's chance in hell to be mainspaced, I personally thought about using selected info and add them with copyedits and referencing et al to a few articles.That being said if consensus is to nuke, I won't stand in the way.Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 11:29, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As to the second point, I don't know how I used the exact antonym of what I wanted to describe!Oops!Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 11:33, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, Godric on Leave. However, please do not alter a post after someone has replied to it. Please instead WP:REDACT it by using strike-outs, etc. and adding a second time stamp (using five tildes) to indicate when you altered it. See WP:REDACT for details, and please return and re-add the original wording you had (that I quoted). Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 11:54, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know:)Winged Blades of GodricOn leave 12:29, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fairly perplexed by a lot of criticism of the paper above. I mean I'm not saying the research is good, I only skimmed through the paper so I have no idea. But people seem to be making a big deal over the 1995 thing yet AFAICT, this info wasn't used. The authors specifically note Since we are interested in the interaction of the scientific literature with Wikipedia, we use only data from 2000 onward. AFAICT they didn't actually use pre 2000 data at all. I'm not certain why the authors mention 1995 at all, but I think it's because it's the data that Elsevier provided them so they just mention what data they had, and then later explain what they used, how they chose it (including how they decided the publication data since some are just Spring 2009) etc.

Of course looking at data from before wikipedia is not necessarily wrong. There is an obvious reason to look at data from before wikipedia namely to rule out false positives. The primary reason I even looked at the paper was just to see if that's what the authors were doing but it doesn't seem like it. However they may have used some data from before wikipedia I think. If I'm understanding correctly, their methodology was actually a bit like what I was thinking and they chose papers from 6 months before an article and 3+6 months after an article, with the hypothesis that the the papers after will be more similar to the wikipedia article in the 3+6 months after (because they were influenced by wikipedia) than they were in the 6 months before (since they obviously couldn't have been). This of course means they may have looked at some papers from before wikipedia itself existed.

So have I missed something or is this specific criticism of the paper completely off base? If I am right, should we now start to discuss what to do with content from anyone who made this criticism. Particularly since as I said, I only did a very, very basic skim through the paper to uncover this. At least it seems the logical conclusion to me if people are suggesting we remove content from the PhD students just because the people who hired? them may have published a poor quality research paper. Note I'm specifically not commenting on any other criticism of the paper, I'm not really that interested hence a very, very basic skim. I'm not even saying the before/after thing was good methodology, simply that it doesn't seem to me to be the case that the authors assumed papers would be influence by wikipedia before that content existed on wikipedia.

Nil Einne (talk) 14:34, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(EC)There are certainly a few questions on whether they violated our rules, but I consider them to be minor. Please check out the FAQs for the Terms of Use change at How does this provision affect teachers, professors, ... It states that "These requirements shouldn't keep teachers, professors, or people working at galleries, libraries, archives, and museums ("GLAM") institutions from making contributions in good faith!" and

For example, if a professor at University X is paid directly by University X to write about that university on Wikipedia, the professor needs to disclose that the contribution is compensated. There is a direct quid pro quo exchange: money for edits. However, if that professor is simply paid a salary for teaching and conducting research, and is only encouraged by their university to contribute generally without more specific instruction, that professor does not need to disclose their affiliation with the university.

So the rules regarding researchers are pretty loose, like those for Wikipedians in Residence and other GLAM contributors. Perhaps the major question is whether the authors of the paper told the grad students what to write in the articles. I suspect not - as I understand it the grad students were PhD chemistry students and the authors are management profs. Best to let the experts write the articles. The second question - and I consider it to be definitely minor here - is whether the students used a joint account rather than individual accounts.

As far as criticisms of the paper itself goes - that's not really relevant here is it? But a review in Nature gives a description from an outside researcher calling it “ingenious”. I do find some of the criticisms of the paper on this page to be rather amateurish. In particular, those that cite the low R-squared are way off base. Perhaps they are mistaking the authors' hypothesis to be "Wikipedia is the only source of terminology in scientific papers."

So we have experts (PhD students) writing on the subject they know, apparently without direction on the content of the articles. The editors were probably new to Wikipedia and made some newby mistakes. What's the big deal? Smallbones(smalltalk) 14:59, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • To explain the methodology problem to those who don't get it, they had subject matter experts write Wikipedia articles and then found that the language of those articles matches the language of the scientific literature. You know, the literature written and read by the same subject matter experts. There's crazy reverse causality there. Further, they created only 43 chemistry articles, posting half of those. Their sample size is inflated up to 664,790 because each paper they compare the articles against is an observation, but this ignores the possibility of random variation in how closely the Wikipedia articles they wrote mirror existing terminology in the literature. With a treated group of only 22 and a control of 21 articles, the variance in how closely the articles are written to mirror existing terminology in the literature between the two groups is fairly high. The underlying assumption of their model is that there is no difference in how closely the Wikipedia articles they wrote match the existing literature, but they offer up no evidence to support this. Their p-values are completely invalid as a consequence. This is a horrible study, and MIT in particular should be ashamed. Berkeley Haas should be as well for allowing someone who thinks this is robust to get a PhD. ~ Rob13Talk 15:24, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to accept the views expressed in Nature on scientific matters over the views expressed on this page. Nevertheless, I think we all have to accept that whether you like the research and its methods or not, that that's irrelevant to whether they broke our rules. Smallbones(smalltalk) 15:35, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't relevant to whether this broke our rules. (Based on the design of the experiment, which did say the researchers picked the topics, this did break our rules.) I'm just rather offended that someone with a PhD in a field related to mine is publishing this crap. There is a reason they haven't published this in a journal. They're missing basic robustness checks, and given the background of the authors, they know they're missing basic robustness checks. I must presume they ran them and the experiment didn't hold up. ~ Rob13Talk 15:47, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What rule was broken by researchers asking people to write on particular topics where we had gaps? I can't see where the problem lies. - Bilby (talk) 16:32, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nil Einne:I didn't see that text you quoted, but even if it is there, it only minimizes the problem, not eliminate it. Papers published in 2000 were all almost certainly written at least 6 months and up to 2-3 years prior to publication. Also, see below where I point out some other problems.
@Smallbones:The qualities of the paper matter because it's a powerful indicator of the qualities of their interactions with WP. If they set out to prove something (which they certainly seem to have done, instead of setting out to disprove their hypothesis), then their entire methodology is suspect. That is a strong indicator that we should review the articles they created. Whether we find problems or not, we have no reason to trust the folks who wrote them.
As to whether or not someone called it "ingenious" in a column (not a peer-reviewed article, nor even an editor-selected letter) in Nature; it doesn't matter. The author is free to have his opinion, and is no more qualified than I to give one. I can even see where Zastrow was coming from; the hypothesis could very well be described as "ingenious" and the most fundamental basis of their experiment design could be referred to as "innovative" without me contesting it. But the methodology they used was shit. This is pretty clearly a sociology/psychology-of-science experiment by a couple of guys who don't have any expertise in that subject. The lead author was part of the schools of management and AI. The second author is an economist.
Tell me; how could that methodology have possibly shown a negative correlation (that scientific literature influence WP's language)? Even in their creation of articles and subsequent search for matching text in later peer-reviewed articles, did they account for the fact that to make those articles, they needed pre-existing sources to begin with? How does one eliminate the possibility that their sources influenced the literature, instead of the WP article? And finally, how does writing a WP article and not publishing it help? They "withheld" half of the articles they wrote. How is that functionally different than only writing half as many articles for the purposes of this experiment? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:54, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Hard as it may be to believe, BU Rob's and MPants' evaluations are far too charitable. It's not a matter of questionable assumptions, because questionable assumptions implies you understand what the assumptions mean in first place, even if you make a mistake in evaluating them. Numbers were blindly plugged into formulas, and statistical machinery set into motion, with no apparent understanding of their function or the meaning of the results. The paper is a complete joke. David A. Freedman, in his elementary statistics textbook, describes his hopeless attempt to enlighten the authors of a similarly meaningless paper:

We went... to discuss these issues with the investigators. They insisted that they had taken very good statistical advice when designing their study, and were only doing what everybody else did. We pressed our arguments. The discussion went on for several hours. Eventually, the senior investigator said, "Look. When we designed this study, one of our consultants explained that some day, someone would arrive out of the blue and say that none of our statistics made any sense. So you see, everything was every carefully considered."

That was fifty years ago, when people committing statistical suicide had to use mechanical calculators and books of tables; as seen in the instant case, today the internet allows statistical nonsense to be performed on a vastly larger scale almost effortlessly. With respect to Mark Zastrow's (unrefereed) review (in Nature) of this (unrefereed) article – well, standards are slipping everywhere. Zastrow writes short, uncritical pop summaries of other articles taking their assertions and conclusions at face value. EEng 17:11, 30 September 2017 (UTC) P.S. to MPants: Keeping half the papers back actually does make sense. It's just that nothing else about the design makes sense, so there's no point discussing it.[reply]

EEng then what was the point in writing them? Why not rely on something that already exists, but which scientists are almost certain not to cite, such as brand-new textbooks? ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:26, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why can't school projects, homework, students and instructors be limited to sandboxes or create a "homework" namespace instead of live articles. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That would completely defeat the purpose of the experiment, knuckleheaded though it is. EEng 18:09, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it's difficult to discuss because the rest of the design is so confused, but I'll give it a go. We're trying to test whether new released WP articles (R) cause the literature of chemistry (L) to become "more like" R. But L is evolving anyway, and maybe it would become more like R anyway, just because the R articles are on things chemists today are interested in (I), and meanwhile L tends to gravitate toward things chemists today are interested in -- in other words, maybe it's not R affecting L so much as I affecting both R and L. By having a set of new unreleased articles (U), we can try to check for that, by seeing whether L becomes more like U in the same way it becomes more like R. We can't use a textbook instead of U, because the authors of the textbook – their interests, their attributes as writers – might be quite different from the authors of the R papers. Drawing R and U randomly from a single pool "assures us" (omit side discussion) that the R articles and the U articles are similar. Does that help? EEng 18:09, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good points there. I concede the point that writing the unpublished articles conveyed a benefit. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:27, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Most people find that following this advice saves time. EEng 19:03, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your evaluation as well as anyone else's evaluation (including mine) is irrelevant to the discussion. The issues for Wikipedia are whether the research was conducted ethically, which it was. Were unacceptable articles created in doing the experiment, which appears not to be the case. Another reason to leave out the merits of the research is that unless one is familiar with the rapid development in statistical approaches in big data social science, such work does appear mysterious and very difficult to understand.--I am One of Many (talk) 18:21, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrap-Up

I think that the discussion of the "experiment" either is finished, or its discussion at this noticeboard, which is for administrative action, is finished. We do need a policy or guideline that states clearly that the use of Wikipedia as an experiment is inappropriate, because the purpose of Wikipedia is to summarize human knowledge, not to play around to produce new knowledge. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:30, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: @Aspro: @BU Rob13: @I am One of Many: @EEng: @MjolnirPants: Sorry for taking some time. I looked at some of the draft articles and could not find more examples than Mesembrine where Elsevier journals are cited more often than what seems reasonable. In total about 100 draft articles were created in chemistry and econometrics, and I do not have the time to look at all of them. I find that one example very worrisome and hope someone with expertise in the subject can take care of it. I do not have any relationship with the authors but find it an insult to economics that they do a randomized controlled trial claiming that they found what they were looking for when they only (think they) found it in chemistry while they did not find anything in econometrics and just leave that out in in their abstract and title and media campaign, as does the Nature news author who seems to be a natural scientist without any expertise in the methodology. I also find it an insult to Wikipedia that PhD students of highly prestigious institutions are paid to write (without disclosure) such poor articles with ridiculously specialized lemmas and continuously poor citations in spite of many attempts by volunteers to give advice. This is a waste of our time, and violations of ethics, especially the undisclosed paid editing, should be pointed out to the ethics committees of the institutions in order to prevent future violations and in order to stop reckless researchers from making a career out of their recklessness. That being said I think there will be some valuable content in the drafts and added articles (those that were originally held back were added after the conclusion of the experiment but no care was invested in actually getting them to become articles, so most of the drafts were rejected and the work so far was just lost) but I don't have the time (and regarding chemistry expertise) to work on it. Antimanipulator (talk) 05:31, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Communication problems with IkbenFrank

IkbenFrank (talk · contribs) seems to be one of those editors who doesn't seem to talk much. His talk page is full of unanswered complaints and he never uses edit summaries. I've had a go at getting through but it's fallen on deaf ears. I wonder if anyone else can succeed? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:39, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, have tried before, even left a final warning before I went into semi retirement but he just never listens or learns. Think it’s time we blocked him to be honest, most of his edits are non constructive as it is. Class455 (talkstand clear of the doors!) 13:43, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
+1 - He has no interest in communicating or discussing and no amount of warnings will change that, Personally I'd support a 2 week block and if it carries on then the block would get longer and even indef if need be. –Davey2010Talk 13:57, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the above. This isn't just a communication problem but also WP:COMPETENCE, apparently. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 17:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Could Ritchie333 please explain what Ikbenfrank is meant to have done wrong? The guy's quiet but is he actually disruptive? I should mention I was canvassed by Ritchie because I reverted one of IkbenFrank's edits three years ago. -mattbuck(Talk) 18:28, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to know the answer as well. Yes he's not using edit summaries, but I'm not noticing anything in his edits that's disruptive. And there's nothing recent on his talk page to indicate there's a problem. If there is then no one has engaged with him. Canterbury Tailtalk 18:59, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I can see complaints about unconstructive editing on Gloucestershire and Cheltenham, original research Rail Safety and Standards Board and Southern Railway strike (2016-2017), alleged hoaxes on Glastonbury, plus this earlier ANI thread. Individually, there's not a lot, but put it together and it all seems to boil down to him not discussing things during content disputes. Anyway, at least here provides him the ability to tell his side of the story. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:05, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I'd not be neutral on this. And I'm not perfect and have made several errors dealing with user, including raising the aforementioned ANI thread. A typical problem issue might be revision 801553383 on Paddington (This is Paddington the area of London - the station has its own article) for example. Now within the context of the Paddington area article it may be (just) relevant to mention Paddington is the London railway terminus for Fishguard the and ferry to Rosslare (though there are no longer direct trains). However the actual edit made is over the top with regards to detail in my opinion; and the article will likely need to cleaned up sometime. Some edits by user are useful but the over-emphasis on e.g. railways can mean articles are in my opinion disproportionality railway orientated. Newtownforbes would be an example of a useful contribution. It feels like the user pops up every 2 to 4 weeks, does some minor edits that will be passable and does others that seem how far his pet interests can be pushed into articles; then lies low (I may be unfair in saying this). As a number of people revert his edits without warnings or have given up putting stuff on his talk page it tends to not have many current issues, or perhaps just one. There is a real risk he is relying on wikipedians assuming good faith and doing monthly edits to avoid recent warnings. As some may/should have noticed he has communicated with me on my talk page with regard to a previous issue following my reversion of a number of edits ... I don't really have an answer. Djm-leighpark (talk) 15:31, 26 September 2017 (UTC). Please be aware that after becoming aware of Newtownforbes and mentioning it above I decided to work a little on the article .. initially because of tweaking some of IkbenFrank's content and restoring/reworking content deleted by Ritchie333 and subsequently to work on the Castleforbes demesne section. While somewhat serving as an example of how article improvement works I was not expecting to work on the Newtownforbes when I first mentioned it here and would not have given it as an example if I was expecting that, this being a slight distraction in this ANI section.Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC) I've also just done a fairly bold edit on the Paddington article for reasons far deeper than IkbenFrank's contribution.Djm-leighpark (talk) 13:34, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Extremely unfair you creep! — Preceding unsigned comment added by IkbenFrank (talkcontribs)

Not helpful IkbenFrank. Do you have anything constructive to add to this conversation instead of calling people names? Wikipedia is a community and if people raise questions about some of your edits you need to respond to them otherwise admins etc will only get one side of the story. Canterbury Tail talk 11:23, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou for responding IkbenFrank (talk · contribs). I assume you are referring to my possible explanation of your pattern of timelines of contributions. I accept it is perfectly possible that you may simply allocate say one or two days a month to Wikipedia contributions. I think what people are finding is that you are making large proportion of (non-trivial) edits that are needing to be reverted or reworked. I think other contributors to this section would wish you to make more positive comments. For example I suggest a good start is to ensure you sign your talk page contributions with 4 tildes and as Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) has suggested ensure you use edit summaries - You can set an auto-reminder for those by : Perferences, Editting tab, Then checking: Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Responding positively in this way this will likely stand you in better stead with others. Djm-leighpark (talk) 21:44, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked user using a dopelganger - Fake Amusement Parks

Blocked user AmyWeatherspoon63 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) appears to be using her account at AmyWeatherspoon63 (doppelganger) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to create draft articles. Enterprisey (talk!) 00:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's because I love creating articles about fictional amusement parks and attractions. That's why I created Draft:Yellowstone Sky Seeker. Not to mention I'm Mothra's biggest fan. ----AmyWeatherspoon63's doppelganger (Talk to my main account) 01:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, good. You might have thought she was violating policy but no, she loves creating articles about fictional amusement parks and attractions. That's why she created Draft:Yellowstone Sky Seeker. Not to mention she's Mothra's biggest fan. And she's also obviously not a grody old man roleplaying as a braindead teenage girl. Nothing to see here, move along. 107.195.20.170 (talk) 01:49, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's give her a fictional Wikipedia to play with. Count Iblis (talk) 02:06, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please also block MothraFanGirl1763 (talk · contribs), who has also popped up. --MuZemike 22:14, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unhatted. I'm not done and will find out who this is. Will report back shortly.
    Berean Hunter(talk) 10:02, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've just CSD G3 a series of Draft pages, rolled back a bunch of edits to mainspace and reported additional socks as vandals . Check my edits before this post if interested. Legacypac (talk) 17:06, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

IBM PC DOS, etc.

Involved articles: IBM PC DOS, TRS-80 character set, VGA connector, VGA-compatible text mode

Relevant diffs: [208], [209] (reversion of removal of redundant link and reversion of italicization of computer/video game title, respectively)

It seems as though I've fallen into a case of rules lawyering and "policy" enforcement from User:Deacon Vorbis. He has decided that he must (at all costs) revert my edits to articles that he personally dislikes (per WP:NOTBROKE)), even if it fixes punctuation or redundant linking. This really is quite passive-aggressive on his part; I've tried discussing the matter politely with him but he seems to think that whatever his thoughts on policy are are the final word and no other action by other editors are valid. As a long-time editor and administrator, this doesn't really sit well with me having my proper (not merely good faith) edits reverted by an editor with less than two years of editing experience. I'm not going to play games here and get sucked into WP:3RR and other childish editing games.

He also seems incapable of any non-"black-and-white" thinking on objective matters (such as Wikipedia guidelines (which are not rules or laws) governing this project. I suspect I stumbled into editing articles in his "pet" area (math and technology) and that he feels the need to invoke "Protecting the valor of Wikipedia at all costs", which is a wreckless sort of mindset; we're all supposed to be working together toward the common goal of making information avaiable to people on the internet worldwide, not working against each other.

Involved party (Deacon Vorbis) needs to re-evaluate his view of Wikipedia policy and not act rashly before reverting experienced non-vandal editors. Bumm13 (talk) 03:14, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If there's a dispute, and a guideline says to do things one way, why not just follow the guideline? I don't understand why you're making a big deal of this. Instead of escalating this to ANI, you should have said, "Oh, so I don't have to waste my time changing links that aren't broken? That's good news. Thank you for pointing that out. Cheers." In fact, it's not too late for you to say that now. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you understand: it's not okay to revert edits involving removing redundant links and italicization of video game titles (per the diffs posted above). Also, this has effectively prevented me from editing any articles until this issue is resolved. That isn't acceptable and is borderline harassment. Bumm13 (talk) 03:53, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Indeed, I was a bit overzealous on a couple of those reverts; I should only have reverted the parts I was objecting to. Let's gloss over whether my actions were "passive-aggressive" or whether or not I've actu[[User:Deacon Vorbisally "decided that I must (at all costs) revert your edits". I'll try to be brief here; I can go into more detail if anyone wants. I said it might be actually be helpful to escalate, but that first you should explain why your edits were okay. My view is that the gist of WP:NOTBROKEN is pretty much just, "If a link works, then don't screw with it without a good reason". But you didn't explain; you just tried to throw around the fact that you've been here longer (I guess?) and then went ahead and escalated here.
Guidelines make it helpful so that us poor, misguided, inexperienced editors can actually have some frame of reference when we see someone making changes like this. If you find it necessary to go against the guidelines on such a regular basis, then you can always modify the guidelines so it's clear for those without the vast accrued wisdom to see why it's okay.
Seeing as how this was barely discussed, I think it would be best for this matter to just be closed and let it try to sort itself out. --Deacon Vorbis (talk) 03:54, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The matter can't be closed if you don't at least undo the part of your reversions to IBM PC DOS and TRS-80 character set involving my removal of redundant links and italicization of a video game title link, as those are legitimate edits regardless of our views on WP:NOTBROKEN and avoiding redirects. Bumm13 (talk) 04:08, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh for fuck's goodness sake. If you really want to make me do it, then fine; it's done. But if you're going to continue editing in violation of WP:NOTBROKEN, then you should really update the guideline. The rest of us aren't psychic, especially when you won't explain why you're doing it. --Deacon Vorbis (talk) 04:16, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaving aside the merits of the edits for a moment, let's look at: "As a long-time editor and administrator, this doesn't really sit well with me having my proper (not merely good faith) edits reverted by an editor with less than two years of editing experience." Hmmm. That "doesn't really sit well" with me at all. Some folks could view that kind of statement as an attempt to "throw your weight around". I'm sure that's not the intention, but you might bear it in mind, nevertheless. I agree with NRP that there was no need to escalate this to this noticeboard. -- Begoon 04:20, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing in the OP's approach to this whole issue sits at all well. I know standards for granting adminship were pretty lax in 2005, but I didn't realise that they were that lax. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 15:10, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Talk:IBM PC DOS has not been edited since February 2017, and the last substantive comment made at that page was in July 2012. Johnuniq (talk) 04:31, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the light of the behaviour shown in this whole dispute, including the ongoing failure to explain why the WP:NOTBROKE guideline shouldn't be followed in these cases, should Bumm13 continue to be an administrator? That editor has obviously displayed an inappropriate temperament for that role per WP:ADMINACCT and WP:CIR. This behaviour is akin to that of a D-list celebrity who says "do you know who I am?" when refused a table at a fully booked restaurant. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you should prejudge me any more than another other editor here (including myself not prejudging others). At least take a look at my previous edits over the years and my ability to (mostly) avoid on-site controversy. After a day of reflection, I know I didn't handle the situation as well as I could have, but I don't think that this episode should define my ability to be a competent admin. I also find it somewhat curious that you bring these character issues up given you don't have an actual username; it's okay to be to edit anonymously as an IP but it seems odd that you seem so interested in on-site policies without bothering to even register a username. Just a small thing, though. Bumm13 (talk) 00:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I had no idea that User:Bumm13 was an admin. This filing was preceded by a filing at the dispute resolution noticeboard that appeared to have been filed by a clueless newbie who did not precede the filing by discussion on an article talk page. It appears to have been filed by a clueless admin. I suggest that this report be closed as the filing of a clueless admin who doesn't know how to be an experienced editor, and I thought admins were supposed to be experienced editors. Is there a remedial course for admins who don't know how Wikipedia works? Robert McClenon (talk) 03:51, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, he really is an admin. That's disturbing. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:06, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(e/c) Pretty much a c/paste of that DR filing, now you point it out. I'm concerned though, Robert, that Bumm13 might "find it somewhat curious" that you and I bring issues up here, or that it might not "sit well" with them. I'm trying to understand the 'caste system' they appear from their comments in this thread to apply to such judgments. We are neither of us IP editors, having both "bothered to" register usernames, so that seems to be a pass; we have both edited for well over 2 years, so that looks ok; but neither of us are admins, so that could be a stumbling block, I'm not sure. -- Begoon 04:21, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My reply was to User:86.17.222.157, not you or User:Robert McClenon. Bumm13 (talk) 04:44, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know. (Mine and SBHB's were to Robert - which was apparent until you "top-posted" above them with the wrong indent.) Not sure why that's relevant to what I said, though? -- Begoon 04:51, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Robert, I would be delighted for you to "show me how Wikipedia works"; clearly I'm completely unable to understand very simple concepts (like responding to you at this page). Not really sure what your "remedial" comment was trying to accomplish, but it sure doesn't seem like WP:AGF or anything of the sort. So I don't know all the ins and outs of how specific noticeboards work here on Wikipedia? Dealing with user or content disputes isn't where I choose to spend my time when editing. I posted here after finding out that, sure enough, WP:DRN was the wrong place for dispute resolution with another editor. Let's stick to the purpose of this noticeboard (dispute resolution) and consider toning down the snarky comments. Bumm13 (talk) 04:40, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:Bumm13 - The first rule about posting to noticeboards is to read any instructions at the top of the noticeboard. That isn't really a difficult rule.
The instructions at the top of DRN say: "The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN." You posted almost the same complaint about the editing of links as you posted here at DRN, with no discussion on article talk pages. It is true that my comment about remedial education was snarky, but it was deserved, because experienced editors, whether admins or not, are expected at least to know to read the instructions. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it does matter to the DRN volunteers, and you wasted our time by filing a complaint without the preceding discussion. I assumed, in closing it, that you were a clueless newbie who didn't yet know to read the instructions, but who had (after a little reading) found a place to complain. You are not a clueless newbie. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bumm13, the problem isn't just your competence, but also your attitude, which you displayed again in that post, that arguments can be won by pulling rank rather than by explaining your actions. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 08:15, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And I'm not the one doing any prejudging here, but have only based anything that I have said on your actions. You are the one who is prejudging people on the basis of their non-admin status, their shorter history of editing than yours and my unregistered status. Why the fuck (I have a shorter fuse than User:Deacon Vorbis so won't redact that word) didn't you follow User:NinjaRobotPirate's advice above that "it's not too late for you to say that now". It now is (or at least should be on the basis of your intransigence) too late. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 18:18, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proxy IP's constantly undoing recent changes

Since a few hours ago, an IP user has been constantly undoing recent changes, either made by a user/IP or a bot. Meanwhile, this user issues bogus user warnings claiming the reverted user's edits were unconstructive. Admins have been working hard blocking them, but once an IP gets blocked, the user simply switches to a new one. Examples include these IP's contributions:

There are a lot more I won't be listing, as they can mostly be found at WP:AIV's edit history at least since here. It's been over 3 hours and still ongoing, so posting this to request attention from admins, as well as anyone willing to revert similar edits made by new IP's. -★- PlyrStar93. Message me. 03:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:Jastorga vandalism

Resolved

Special:Contributions/Jastorga - 4th warning. Thanks. (WP:AIV is protected) 174.17.207.124 (talk) 04:01, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked 31 hours for WP:SOAPBOX violations. Probably not here to constructively contribute, but the worst that happens is that we end up back here tomorrow. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:23, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The event in question will be over by tomorrow. 174.17.207.124 (talk) 04:26, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yonggary vandal from Sandy, Texas

Can we block a particular vandal who keeps disrupting articles related to Yonggary (character)? Multiple IPs are being used, all from Sandy, Texas. Armegon has been particularly plagued by this vandal. A rangeblocks should do it, on 2602:306:839B:77F0:x, plus a single block of 104.57.183.127, who was previously blocked for three days in June.[210]

An example series of edits may be seen here, where the vandal writes his own unreferenced analysis of the filmmakers' motives ("Made to cash in on Pacific Rim and The Upcoming Godzilla remake") along with a copy/paste of some plot text taken word-for-word from online sources published a month earlier. Another example of the vandal's original analysis was placed here, comparing multiple films, unreferenced, written poorly. Binksternet (talk) 00:04, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of IPs
2602:306:839b:77f0::/64 is the range. I also collapsed the lists above to make this section more legible. – Nihlus (talk) 00:34, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Binksternet summarized it perfectly. There's nothing else I can say except that I (and others) have been playing whack the mole with this person for the past few months with no end in sight. This person's edits are unconstructive. Just today, I even left a warning on this person's talk page and an hour or so later, proceeded to restore his previous unconstructive edits that I reverted before warning him on his talk page. Enough is enough. Action must be taken against this person. His edits are not benefitting the affected articles. One 3-day block didn't teach him a lesson, perhaps a permanent block will do the trick. Armegon (talk) 02:16, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User fabricating AFD discussion closures

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please review the past hour's contributions from User:Thebigs2update ([211]). Many articles created by this user were nominated for deletion today, and the user has removed AFD tags from the articles and redirected the discussions to spurious "keep" results, exemplified by, e.g. [212]. Thanks, y'all. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 22:59, 28 September 2017 (UTC) Update: Upon further investigation, I'm not sure the user is creating redirects, at least not effectively (that may have been the intent). Unfortunately I don't have any more time at the moment to figure this out in any greater technical detail, but nothing good is going on here, and I felt it best to bring it to teh authoritez' attention sooner rather than later. Julietdeltalima (talk) 23:09, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging User:El cid, el campeador, who reported this user to AIV this morning with the rationale SPA to promote Kasey Ryne Mazak. All edits are regarding him or creating pages for movies he's been in or editing pages he was involved in.. He's also been uploading many non-free movie posters and claiming them as his own. – Train2104 (tc) 23:13, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've tidied everything up, and have sent the remaining two articles they created to AfD. If they continue to disrupt, a block is in order. Black Kite (talk) 23:23, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've sent two articles to AfD. There are still seven creations by this user not marked for deletion. — JJMC89 (T·C) 00:02, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And, a day later, this just appeared on the Kasey Ryne Mazak talk page: [213]. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 00:08, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Thank you for the notification, and sorry for being MIA. As noted, the user continues to take the same actions, interrupting AfDs by deleting notices. He has been notified of this discussion twice, and warned multiple times, but continues to take the same actions. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalenciaᐐT₳LKᐬ 01:59, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've just given this user a warning that they'll be blocked the next time they disrupt Wikipedia by messing with AfDs, removing templates or promoting this non-notable actor they'll be blocked. I don't know why they haven't been blocked earlier, all they're doing is promoting this non-notable person in every way they can. They may even be them, but that's not actually important. The main thing is they're not here to build an encyclopaedia, just promote this person. If they don't find another topic lets cut them loose. Canterbury Tail talk 02:18, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, Alex Shih has just shown them the door. Canterbury Tail talk 02:21, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I have left a note for this editor about instructions to be unblocked. Contribution history shows nothing but single purpose account (sole purpose is to promote Kasey Ryne Mazak) participating in undisclosed paid activity. Alex ShihTalk 02:39, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All creations not tagged for AFD have been prodded except for Health Nutz and WWE Byte This!, which make no mention of Kasey Ryne Mazak. – Train2104 (tc) 02:53, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I removed Mazak from Health Nutz because he was listed on IMDb as "waiter" for 1 episode which doesn't confer someone as notable for the cast. However I think it's pretty obvious it was only added because he did appear in a background role once. Canterbury Tail talk 11:10, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
These two topics probably meets the notability guideline, although the subject is involved in both of these two topics also, as small, insignificant roles. Alex ShihTalk 03:02, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.