위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive726
Wikipedia:큐캣 기사
내가 여기 묻는 것은 가장 최근에 한 양말처럼 보이는 사용자에게 한 블록과 언블록 때문이다.진행하기 전에 다른 편집자들로부터 추가 입력을 받고 싶었다.
큐캣 기사에선 지난 한 주 동안 이상한 활동이 있었다.내가 직접 (기억할 수 있는) 기사를 편집한 적은 없지만, 3RR의 활동으로 인해 내 감시 목록에 올려놓았는데, 그 이후로는 꽥꽥거리는 소리가 날 가능성이 있다.참고: 이 활동을 시작하기 전에, 몇 달 동안 이 기사는 많은 편집을 받지 못했다.
첫 번째 편집은 란 쿠로사와(토크 · 기여)에 의해 이루어졌는데, 이 편집은 "광범한 화이트워시를 뒤집는다"는 이유로 번복되었다.그들은 편집[1]을 복원하고, 그들이 위키피디아[2]에 제공할 수 있는 수천 페이지의 지원 문서를 가지고 있다고 주장했다.이후 내용을 복원한 후 한동안 편집을 중단했다.
다음으로, 2시간 이내에 Factiod(토크 · 기여)는 기사를 편집하기 시작했고, 같은 자료를 놓고 복수의 편집자와 편집-워레이드 했는데, 결국 3RR 위반으로 나에게 차단되었다.그들은 토크 페이지에서 책을 쓰고 있으며 위키피디아[3]에 공급할 수 있는 수천 페이지를 가지고 있다고 주장했다.
자, 오늘, 새로운 계정인 Proofplus (talk · concerners)는 같은 자료로 토크 페이지에 게시했다.처음에 나는 이 계정을 차단했다. 나는 그것이 탈루라고 생각했기 때문이다. 그리고 양말 블록으로 정정했다.그러나 아직 계정이 시스템 게임을 시도하는 데 사용되거나 사용하지 않았기 때문에, 나는 일단 이 블록을 해제했다. (참고:사용자가 대화 페이지에서 차단 해제 요청을 하는 경우...혹시 오토 블록이 아직 거기 있을까?제자리인 것 같진 않지만 혹시 놓쳤을까?)
나는 이 세 가지 계정이 양말푸펫이나 미트푸펫일 가능성이 높다고 믿지만, 추가 검토를 해 주면 고맙겠다.내게는 퀘킹 소리가 너무 커서 SPI가 받아들여질지 의심스럽다(여기서는 행동의 증거가 꽤 강하다, 내게는).하지만, 나는 검토를 위해 추가적인 눈을 가졌으면 한다. - 베어크 (대화 • 기여) - 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC)[
- 참고: 현재 사용자가 해제한 자동 잠금 장치가 있었다.Steven Walling (고맙다.) - - 베어크 (대화 • 기여) - 19:15, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC)[
- 업데이트: 가장 최근의 편집자는 내용을 둘러싼 전쟁을 논하고 편집하지 않기 위해 선의의 노력을 기울이고 있다.나는 여전히양말과/또는 의 기여
- 프루프플러스는 기사에 대해 소문에 참여한 모든 사람들의 토크 페이지에 글을 올리고 그의 의견에 응답하도록 그들을 초대했다.그가 "좋은 사람"이 되려는 명백한 노력에도 불구하고, 나는 그의 계정이 다른 계정들과 관련이 없다는 것을 확신하지 못한다.그는 다른 사람들과 마찬가지로 스스로를 연구자라고 부른다.그는 또한 IP 세트와 특허와 관련된 다른 문제들에 대해 이야기한다.그의 영어는 다른 영어와 마찬가지로 서툴다.그럼에도 불구하고, 나는 선의로 받아들이기 위해 열심히 노력하면서, 기사의 Talk 페이지에 그의 코멘트에 내가 이해할 수 있는 한 최선을 다해 회신했다.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:34, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC)[
- 업데이트: 가장 최근의 편집자는 내용을 둘러싼 전쟁을 논하고 편집하지 않기 위해 선의의 노력을 기울이고 있다.나는 여전히양말과/또는 의 기여
여보세요, 프루프플러스 여기요, 먼저 여성분, 문법은 화두가 아니에요.다음으로, 나는 계속해서 반복되는 주제를 보지만, 나는 네가 말하는 "같은 그룹"에 대해 확신할 수 없다.하지만 우선, 내가 이스라엘 출신이기 때문에, 아마도 당신은 언어 구문의 차이를 감지하고 있을 것이다.하지만, 나는 네가 다른 결점을 지적할 필요가 있다는 것을 알 수 있어.내 이해는 - 모든 사람에게 코멘트가 작성되고 있음을 알리고, 조사를 공유한 후 코멘트를 요청하라.제가 뭔가를 빠뜨렸나요?내 메시지는 분명했다.사실을 올렸다.링크를 걸었다.레코드를 수정하기 위해 제안한다.나는 제출 문제를 이해하고 그것을 따르고 검토를 위해 링크를 제출했다.그래서, 네가 이해할 수 있을까?만약 당신이 이해하고 읽는 데 어려움을 겪고 있다면(나는 내 교수들에게 허세를 부리지 말라고 말하곤 했다) 도움을 청할 것을 제안하고 아마도 여기 있는 다른 사람들도 내 글을 이해할 수 있을 것이다.나는 어떤 질문에도 기꺼이 대답하겠지만 언어 장벽으로 인해 한 사람이 부족하다고 말하려는 성차별주의적인 일에 끼어들지 않을 것이다.이것이 지금 당신에게 더 명확해지기를 바라며 - 사실 좋은 히브리 이름이다!(64.134.28.233 (토크) 21:16, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC)[하라
- 게시할 때 계정에 로그인하는 것이 좋다.성교정정은 고맙지만 내가 한 말은 성차별적이었고, 네가 무능하다고도 하지 않았다.또한, 당신은 CueCat Talk 페이지에 있는 당신의 진술에 대한 출처를 제공하지 않았다.어쨌든, 내가 대답한 것은 내가 무슨 대답을 하고 있는지 네가 이해할 수 있도록 내가 해석한 것을 다시 한 것이다.또한 내가 잘못 이해했다고 생각되면 바로잡을 수 있게 해준다.--Bbb23 (대화) 21:24, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC]
아마 여기서 해명할 수 있을 겁니다.미트푸펫은 내가 그렇게 강력한 남성 환경에 글을 올리는 여자라는 것에 대해 모욕감을 주는가?이거 괜찮아요?제발 그만해, 나는 그 말이 매우 불쾌하다고 생각해.나는 내 토크 페이지를 확인했고 여러 개의 회신이 없지만, 베어크는 "모든 사람의 토크 페이지"라고 말한다.그럼 Barek이 여러 계정을 주고받는다고?이것이 가능한가?가능하면 내가 이것을 이해할 수 있도록 도와줘.대단히 고맙습니다(ProofPlus Professional Research 21:23, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC) — Proofplus가 추가한 사전 서명되지 않은 의견(대화 • 기여)
바렉, 고기 꼭두각시를 알게 되어 기뻐하는 것은 나에게 공격이 아니었다.나는 방금 앤디그래프에게 다음과 같은 정보를 제공했는데, 여기서 관련이 있을 수도 있다.하지만, 나를 다른 사람과 혼동하는 것은 좋지 않고, 나는 네가 컴퓨터와 연결을 통해 그것을 확인할 수 있다고 확신한다.이것은 큐캣 장치에 대한 새로운 관심을 설명하는 데 도움이 될 수 있다.여기에 다시 게시해도 괜찮기를 바란다. (ProofPlus Professional Research 21:50, 2011년 11월 2일 (UTC)
SNIP>>><쿠에고양이에 대한 나의 관심이다.RPX사는 공기업이다.오래된 폴 앨런 중 한 명이고 IP를 수집하는 사람들을 그룹화한다.그들은 실제로 큐캣 기술에 대한 특허를 소유하고 있다.그들의 주식은 50% 하락했지만 큐캣은 가장 큰 그룹이다.마이크로소프트, 구글 등은 이전 큐캣 특허권을 각 회사당 660만 달러에 허가했고, 같은 일을 한 회사는 60개 이상 있는 것 같다.아마도 이 특허들은 G4와 다른 것들에 대해 많이 읽었을 것이고 나는 공개적인 파일들을 읽었기 때문에 나는 매우 흥미롭다.내가 하는 연구는 중동 시장에서의 본질적으로 재무적인 것이며, RPX의 이 주식은 이륙할 것으로 보이며 나는 그 사실을 알고 싶다.큐캣의 사실들을 조사하던 중, 나는 큐캣에 대한 위키 참조를 우연히 발견했고, 그 기록은 단지 틀렸고 사실적으로 틀렸다. 그리고 나는 내가 발견한 것을 추가하기 위해 스스로 그것을 받아들였다.이게 도움이 되길 바래.하지만 금융 시장에는 소위 이 OD 기술과 관련하여 큰 일들이 벌어지고 있지만 특허는 오래되지 않았고 그 다음으로 큰 것이다.댓글?이게 모두 공개 기록이라는 걸 알 수 있으니까, 난 선을 넘는 말을 하는 게 아니야.I own no stock in RPX corp, nor am I an investor, I am a researcher doing my required homework for getting to the heart of this technology (ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)) (ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Proofplus (talk • contribs)
- 나는 지금 더 혼란스럽다.CueCat과 RPX Corporation의 연결고리는 무엇인가?Nil Einne(대화) 편집:CueCat에 대한 관심뿐만 아니라 ProofPlus와 User Talk에 대한 관심의 유사성을 공유한다.팩티오드# 모든 차단과 허브 버블은 무엇에 관한 것인가?특허를 조사하던 중 큐캣에 왔다.닐 아인 (대화) 18:05, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자인 것 같음:Ran Kurosawa는 위키백과의 대화를 만들려고 했다.생성물/J. 허튼 퓰리처.그러나 그 일부분은 출처[4]와 많이 닮아 있으므로, Ran kurosawa가 실제로 웹사이트의 저자가 아니라면 모방범일 가능성이 높기 때문에, 더 많은 시사점을 제기한다.어쨌든, 그들의 일을 돌봐야 할 또 다른 이유.닐 아인(토크) 17:31, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
프루프플러스는 그녀의 이상한 행동을 계속한다.내가 여기 토크 페이지에 있는 그녀의 코멘트에 답한 후, 그녀는 마치 아무도 응답하지 않은 것처럼 여기에 다른 섹션을 열어 "답변"했다.나는 또한 그녀가 말한 것에도 불구하고 그녀가 토크 페이지에 어떤 링크도 제공하지 않았다고 덧붙일 수도 있다.이 기사에 관련된 다양한 편집자들은 -그들은 서로 다른 개인들일 정도로 -다른 편집자들의 시간을 거의 아무것도 아닌 일로 많이 소비하고 있다.-Bb23 (토크) 22:21, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
IP를 피할 수 있는 블록
한 IP가 내 토크 페이지에 그들이 이전의 양말 퍼피에 대한 비난 때문에 IP로 편집하고 있다고 나에게 말했다.[5][6] 현재 75.21.156.42에 있지만 자주 변경된다.원본 계정이 누구인지, 현재 차단된 계정이 있는지 아는 사람이 있다면 관심 있을 것 같다.이 IP는 다른 여러 사용자의 토크 페이지[7][8]에서 논쟁적 접근법을 채택하고 있으며, 이것이 차단 회피일 경우 중단되어야 한다.SpiningSpark 19:39, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
토픽 금지와 인터랙션 금지 커뮤니티 토론
토론은 그웬 게일(토크·논문)이 마무리했다.편집에서 위키피디아로:중재/팔레스타인-이스라엘 기사 요청:쿠나드 (대화) 03:30, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[ |
중단:사용자 Jerrian과 Jerrian 또한 복수 IP를 사용한다.
User Jurian(또한 User Jurian, 복수 IP)은 Primary 및 Original 연구 정책에 기본적이고 근본적인 문제를 가지고 있으며, 1차 연구에 참여하여 반복적으로 대화 페이지를 교란시킨다. diff 지속성 예시. 이 최근 버전은 페이지 교란의 깊이를 보여준다.
이는 지속적이고, 12개월에 걸쳐 확산되었으며, 제한된 주제 영역에 여러 기사가 있으며, 여러 IP와 사용자 계정에 퍼졌다.Jurriaan의 사용자 페이지 목록에 있는 IP 계정:
- 212.64.48.162
- 212.182.183.8
- 82.136.223.40
- 82.169.203.147
- 82.170.245.157
- 82.169.203.180
- 85.144.162.215
주리아안이 기본적인 백과사전 정책을 준수하지 않으려 한다는 점을 감안할 때, 나는 그들이 우리의 소싱 정책과 비누상자에 의한 대화 페이지를 방해하는 정책을 기꺼이 준수할 수 있을 때까지 마르크스, 마르크스의 작품, 정치경제에 관한 주제에 대한 기여를 제한했으면 한다.피필푸(토크) 11시 58분, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- (비관리자 의견) ISP 목록을 간단히 살펴보면, 나열된 모든 주소가 동일한 업스트림 ISP에 등록되어 있는 것으로 나타나며, 마지막 주소를 제외한 나머지 주소는 별도의 ISP에 정적 ADSL 등록으로 나타난다.그러나 그들 모두는 같은 지역에 위치한다.WP 전체를 여는 게 좋을 것 같아SPI 보고, 이유

나한테는 오리가 메가폰으로 꽥꽥거리는 것 같아.그래, 알아, 다시는 그 템플릿을 사용하지 않겠다고 약속했어. 신발이 너무 잘 맞아서 여기에 신으면 안 돼. --Alan the Robing Ambassador(사용자:N5iln) (대화) 16:11, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 나는 피펠푸의 주장과 비난에 강력히 반대한다.내가 어떤 것을 방해했다는 증거는 없다.필펠푸는 칼 마르크스를 해석하는 이차적인 출처만이 칼 마르크스에 대해 권위적일 것이라고 느끼는 반면, 나는 칼 마르크스의 일부 사상을 칼 마르크스의 본문에 참조하는 죄를 범했을 뿐이다.사실, 나는 내가 혼란으로 인해 억울한 누명을 쓴다면 상품 페티시즘이나 그 밖의 다른 것에 대한 기사를 개선하는 데 시간을 투자하는 것에 관심이 없다.내 사용자 페이지에 있는 IP 번호를 구체적으로 인용해서 내 편집 내용을 확인할 수 있도록 했는데, 큰 비밀은 아니다.나는 너의 "메가포네턱"이 무엇에 관한 것인지 전혀 모르겠다.사용자:Jurriaan 2011년 11월 3일 20:46 (UTC) — 212.64.48.162 (대화)가 추가된 선행 미서명 의견
- 사용자/IP가 이전의 제한을 피하지 않기 때문에 SPI는 주요 문제가 아니다.문제는 "나는 단지 카를 마르크스의 일부 사상을 카를 마르크스의 본문에 참조하는 죄를 지었을 뿐"이라는 것이다. 독창적인 연구에 대한 우리의 정책과 같은 요점에서의 광범위한 (그리고 완강하게 틀에 박힌) 토론에 대한 우리의 정책을 따르기를 꺼리는 것이다.사용자/IP는 마르크스에 관한 2차 문헌 전체를 폭넓게 접할 수 있고, 마스터에 대해 깊이 알고 있다. 그러나 그들은 만델, 라파르그, 북하린, 또는 카르단에게 의지하는가?이성애자나 정통파 학자들에게?사용자/IP는 원문에서 스스로 이해를 구하려 하지 않는다.이러한 행동은 적어도 상품 페티시즘에 대해서는 2010년 이후로 계속되어 왔다.피필푸 (토크) 23:42, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
독일어 "Mehr"를 "여유"로 번역한 것은 유감스러운데, 이는 "사용되지 않음", "필요 없음" 또는 "중복함"을 의미하지만, 문자 그대로 "더 많이" 또는 "더 첨가됨"을 의미하기 때문이다. 따라서 "Mehr produckt"는 실제로 생산된 추가 또는 "과잉" 제품을 가리킨다.독일어에서 "메르베르"라는 용어는 단순하고 문자 그대로 순산출력의 척도인 부가가치를 의미한다(그러나 마르크스의 전문용어에서는 자본의 사용으로 얻은 잉여가치를 의미한다).
- 문자 마스크는 사용자/IP가 2년 이상 동안 거의 전적으로 작성한 콘텐츠다.여기에는 다음과 같은 경이로움이 포함된다.
마르크스가 정치경제를 비판한 핵심의 하나는 노동자와 그의 자본주의 고용주 사이의 법리적 노동계약이 진정한 경제관계를 흐리게 한다는 것인데, 이는 (막스에 따르면) 노동자들이 노동력을 팔지 않고 노동력, 즉 노동력을 발휘할 수 있는 능력, 즉 노동력을 달리하여 수익성이 달라질 수 있다는 것이다.그들이 지불하는 것과 그들이 자본의 소유주들을 위해 창출하는 새로운 가치(경제적 착취의 한 형태) 사이에 끼어들다.따라서 자본주의 부의 창출의 바로 그 토대에는 "마스크"가 포함되어 있다.[17]
[17]: ^ "...노동의 유급부분과 무급부분은 서로 분리할 수 없이 뒤섞여 있고, 전체 거래의 본질은 계약의 개입과 주말에 받은 임금에 의해 완전히 가려져 있다." - 칼 마르크스, 가치, 가격, 이익, 파트 9.[8] "라살레의 죽음 이후 우리 당에서 주장되어 왔다.임금은 보이는 노동의 가치나 가격이 아니라 노동력의 가치나 가격을 가린 형태일 뿐이라는 과학적 이해. - 고타 프로그램의 비판자 칼 마르크스(1875), 파트 2(엠파이어 추가)[9] Cf. Capital의 Resultate 필사본, 제1권 펭귄 판, 페이지 1064. 여기서 마르크스는 "vertuscht"("covered")라는 단어를 사용한다.
IP 편집기 74.64.126.212 - 소싱에 대한 지속적인 실패/완전하지 못한 소싱
IP 편집기 74.64.126.212는 미시간 대학에 직접 및 간접적으로 관련된 페이지의 정보를 주기적으로 업데이트하거나 편집하지만 1) 편집에 대한 적절한 출처를 제공하지 못하거나, 2) 사실 편집에 동반하기 위해 출처를 제공하지 않고 편집 요약에만 포함하며, 사실 편집에 동반하지 않는다.이 후자의 관행은 각 경우에 다른 편집자 1) 편집에 주목해야 하며, 2) 제공된 소스를 확인하고, 3) 업데이트된 참조를 반영하도록 기사를 편집해야 한다.만약 아무도 이러한 수정을 하지 않는다면, 잠시 후에 그 기사의 주장이 인용된 참고문헌과 더 이상 일치하지 않고 그것들을 정리하는 것은 힘든 재구성의 과정을 수반할 것이다.나는 내가 감시 목록을 가지고 있는 페이지들에 필요한 수정을 하지만, 그렇지 않으면 편집자를 따라다니고 그들의 불완전한 편집을 정리하는 것에 대한 욕구가 없다.나는 편집자에게 참고문헌을 인용하는 방법을 배우도록 여러 번 요청했는데, 사용자 토크:74.64.126.212를 참조했고, 그 노력에 따라 토크 페이지의 레벨 4를 통해 관련 템플릿을 추가했는데, 모두 효과가 없었다.편집자는 어떠한 방식으로도 응답하지 않으며(사실 IP 200+ 기여에 대한 검토는 어떤 토크 페이지에 대한 기여를 반영하지 않는다), 관행은 계속된다.나는 본질적으로 사실적인 편집인 것처럼 보이는 것에 대해 블록을 찾는 것을 꺼려왔지만, 이러한 변화들은 페이지들이 천천히 저하되지 않도록 하기 위해 적어도 한 명의 다른 편집자의 부지런한 주의를 필요로 하며, 전체적으로 연습이 파괴적이다.또한 나는 편집자가 전혀 관여하지 못하는 것은 다른 선택사항들을 거의 남기지 않는다고 생각한다.
나는 이전에 WP에서 이것에 대처하는 방법에 대한 조언을 구했다.EAR, 어떤 논의가 진로를 달려온 것 같다.그곳의 조언은 "짧은 블록을 찾아라"에 달했다.나는 이 그룹이 제공할 수 있는 어떤 도움이나 충고를 고맙게 생각한다.고마워요.JohnInDC (대화) 14:45, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 만약 그들이 여러 건의 경고를 받았으며 그들의 관행을 바꾸지 않는다면 나는 WP에 보고할 것이다.AIV. 도니아고 (대화) 14:56, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 사실, 방금 IP의 토크 페이지를 확인했어.AIV가 여전히 파괴적이라면 지금 바로 신청해도 된다고 생각해.도니아고 (토크) 14:58, 2011년 11월 3일 ()[응답
- 도니아고, AIV는 어제부터 IP가 편집되지 않았고 편집된 내용이 명확한 반달리즘이 아니기 때문에 적절한 장소가 아니다.이것은 수개월에 걸쳐 서툴거나 부정확한 소싱을 하는 장기간의 문제다.말하자면, IP에 대한 JohnInDC의 마지막 메시지는 편집이 왜 문제가 되는지에 대한 명확한 설명이었다. 만약 그들이 다시 편집을 시작할 때 그들의 행동을 계속한다면, 차단이 필요할 것이다.나는 IP의 토크 페이지를 감시했고 앞으로 그들의 편집을 감시할 것이다.이세벨의 포뇨bons mots 15:08, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
IP와 모미 드레스트
최악의 경우로 여겨지는 영화 목록이 편집 전쟁 영역으로 더 내려오기 전에, 나는 누군가가 IP가 그의 관심을 끌 수 있도록 '분할' 수 있는지 살펴봤으면 한다.고마워. ←야구 벅스 당근→16:43, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그가 돌아왔다.최근 변경사항에서 또 다른 편집이 나타났다.FYI, 기사는 항상 그런 식으로 편집하는 경향이 있을 것이고, 매우 주관적이며, 그런 이유로 프로브가 존재해서는 안 된다는 것이 나의 생각이다(Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈≈ 23:24, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- FYI, 밴달의 IP는 50.74.225.194 Purplebackpack89≈≈≈23:28, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 편집-전쟁은 나쁜 믿음이지만, 그 남자는 기본적으로 단면직입적으로 했다. 그래서 나는 반달리즘이라는 용어가 적절한 Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 23 23:42, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[]이라고 생각한다
- 아니, 그렇지 않아. 28바이트 (대화) 00:07, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 맞아, 반달리즘과 선의의 편집은 차이가 있지만, 이건 잘못된 편집이야.그리고 퍼플의 앞선 논평을 반박하면서, 그렇다, 이 페이지는 많은 논설위원들의 의견을 끌어들이고 있다. 이것이 희망컨대 다수의 "최악의 영화" 출처에 엄격한 소싱이 필요한 이유다.예를 들어, Roger Ebert가 "나는 그것이 싫었다!"라고 말한다면, 그것은 편집자가 "나는 그것을 좋아했다!"라고 말하는 것보다 훨씬 더 많은 무게를 실어준다.그것은 결코 완전한 리스트가 될 수 없을 것이다.예를 들어, 말딘의 책을 훑어보면, "BOMB"라는 라벨이 붙여진 수백 개가 발견될 것이다.이 특별한 기사는 널리 논의되고 있는 몇 편의 나쁜 영화들을 나열하기 위한 것이다.그 예들은 영화 제작에서 무엇이 잘못될 수 있는지에 대한 교육적인 목적을 제공한다.(에드 우드의 경우, 물론 거의 "모든 것"이라고 말할 수 있다.) ←베이스볼 벅스 당근→00:21, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 아니, 그렇지 않아. 28바이트 (대화) 00:07, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
단일 목적 계정, 비누 상자용 물품 오용
새 SPA 계정 사용자:1999년 선언은 법률적 위협을 구성할 수 있고 확실히 WP인 99% 선언에 다소 둔감한 게시물을 만들었다.SOAP [11] --Amadcientist (대화) 02:38, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 명시적인 법적 위협은 보이지 않지만 사용자 이름에 문제가 있는 것으로 보인다.그 사용자 이름은 확실히 개별적인 사용자 이름을 바꿀 필요가 있다.–MuZemike 02:49, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 무제미케의 게시물은 이해한다...그러나 사용자가 서명하지 않은 게시물은 아니다.아래 Puguil.--Amadcientist (대화) 03:21, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
사용자:99 선언문은 분명히 99% 선언문 초안의 저자인 형사 피고측 변호사 마이클 폴록이다.이 중요한 기여자를 계속하도록 도와주십시오!매우 심각한 WP가 있다.월가 점령 작업 그룹과의 최근 사건에 대한 내용 분쟁이 있기 때문에 토크:99% 선언에서 저자의 서신을 반복적으로 블랭킹[12][13][14][15]해 온 아마디 사이언티스트 쪽에서의 PUT 문제.Amadcientist는 The99 선언문을 환영하는 대신 자신의 토크 페이지에 "단일 목적 계정"이라는 첫 메시지를 남겼다.개인비누박스에 대한 기사 공간 오용은 용납할 수 없다.--아마디스트(대화) 02:28, 2011년 11월 4일(UTC)"라고 말하고 사용자를 환영하자 화가 났다.나는 아마디 사이언티스트가 관점을 강조하기 위해 거의 노력한 만큼 백과사전을 쓰기 위해 이곳에 와 있다고 생각하지 않는다. 그리고 나는 Talk에서 태그 티밍에 대해 불평했다.그러한 행동이 여전히 증거 속에 분명히 존재하는 월가를 점령하라.제발 도와주세요.듀얼러스 (토크) 04:39, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
Talk page blanking은 WP로 계속된다.99% 선언의 원저자를 물어라 - 폴록 씨를 편집자로 구하기 위해 무엇을 할 수 있는가?듀얼러스 (토크) 05:05, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 신참자를 물린 것에 대해서는 언제든지 사과할 수 있지만, 그렇다고 해서 당신이 대화 페이지를 조작하거나 원치 않는 접촉을 중단하는 것을 용서할 수는 없다.--아마디스트 (대화) 05:11, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
루초우즈에서 전쟁 편집
드레이즈 부인이 왜 나를 붙잡아 두고 있는지 궁금해하니까 난 물러날 거야.마이 켄 너머에서 루초우씨의 소유권 문제, 특히 몇 가지 문제가 불거지고 있다는 것을 내게 알려주었다.그가 옳았다; 나는 되돌렸고, 사용자들의 토크 페이지에 메모를 남겼고, 그리고 마침내 3R 경고가 나왔다.나는 그들을 방해하는 편집과 편집-전쟁을 위해 그것들을 차단하는 하나의 시계를 가지고 왔지만, 만약 그것이 필요하다면, 나는 다른 누군가에게 그것을 맡겨야 한다(그렇지 않기를 바란다.당신의 관심에 감사한다.드레이미스 (대화) 03:56, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 브루스를 막았다.이 메시지를 보기 전에 whain (대화·출고) 하지만 별로 변한 것이 없어서 내 블록은 여전히 서 있다.팁토티talk 04:13, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
프로레슬링 던지기에서 전투 편집
나는 이 기사에서 벌어지고 있는 편집 전쟁에 관여하고 있다. 그것은 4년 동안 인용에 대한 우려를 가지고 있는 것처럼 보인다.나는 요약 편집, 토크 페이지, 그리고 여기에 그것에 대한 포스팅을 사용함으로써 그것이 통제 불능이 되는 것을 피하려고 노력하고 있다.좀 더 자세히 볼 수 있을까?— Folgertat (대화 • 기여) 20:29, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC) --Brief58 (대화) 12:29, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[이 추가된 선행 미서명 논평
- 글쎄, 문제의 내용에 관한 한, 왜 이 편집에서 검증되지 않은 것들이 제거되고 그렇지 않은지는 분명하지 않지만, 그것은 토크 페이지에 대한 문제야.날짜와 시간을 세고 싶진 않지만, 일부 편집자는 편집 중인 것이 분명하다(사용자:프란시스 마크스는 요약과 설명을 편집하지 않고 다른 사람들보다 더 나쁘게 한다.너희 둘 다 지금 당장 그만하고, 토크 페이지만 편집해서 해결하면 돼.
그동안 여기서 행정관이 할 일은 없고, 이 보고서가 왜 여기 있는지 제대로 알 수가 없다.Drmies (talk) 00:10, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 공식적으로, 나는 그들의 토크 페이지에 두 개의 3R 경고를 주었다.나는 이것이 종결되었다고 생각한다: 더 이상의 붕괴는 3R 게시판에서 먼저 다루어야 하며, 그러한 보고서는 아마도 신속한 차단이 뒤따를 것이다.Drmies (talk) 00:13, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
사용자:Phoenix 및 Winslow
사용자:Phoenix와 Winslow는 어그 부츠를 범용어로 정의한 법정 소송에서 승소하면서 회사에 대한 편견을 갖고 있는 회사를 공격했다.만약 이것이 편집자나 개인에게 불리하게 만들어진 것이라면, 나는 검토를 위해 여기에 그것을 가져오기 전에 사용자 계정을 차단하는데 주저하지 않을 것이다.중요한 것은 이것은 개인이 회사의 Uggs-N-Rugs는 아니지만, 회사의 P&W 설명은 우리가 위키피디아가 비누상자가 아니라는 것을 걱정해야 하는 문제라는 것이다. IMHO의 제재는 논의를 방해하고 합의를 막기 위한 명백한 의도로서 이러한 행동을 다루기 위해 취해져야 한다.Gnangarra 06:34, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 에러, 정말 보이지 않아. (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 09:17, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 "Uggs-N-Mugs"를 "Uggs-N-Mugs"로 지칭하는 것을 언급한다고 생각한다.솔직히 말하자면, 나는 호주 회사와 편집자에 대한 많은 공격성과 함께, 때때로 경계선 투영으로 느껴지는 몇몇 POV의 주장이 반복적으로 게재되는 것에 문제가 있다고 본다.하지만 나는 그것이 여기서 처리될 수 있는 것인지 확신할 수 없지만, 가장 좋은 경로가 무엇인지 또한 확신할 수 없다.아마도 다시 중재에 나서시겠습니까? - 빌비 (대화) 09:26, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 에러, 정말 보이지 않아. (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 09:17, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 여기서의 나의 첫 번째 본능은 이것을 (격리적으로 어느 곳에서도 차단 가능한 공격에는 가깝지 않고, 주체가 BLP라면 기껏해야 비난할 만한 가치가 있을 것 같은) 반대의견을 셧다운시키려는 그럴듯한 시도로 간주하는 것이었지만, 토론을 통해 살펴본 결과 피닉스와 윈슬로의 기사에 대한 접근에는 분명 골치 아픈 점이 있다.여러분은 버락 오바마의 BLP가 음모론에서 자유로워지고 그것을 불리한 비교로 사용하는 방식을 비유하기 시작할 때, 여러분이 잘못된 동기로 향하고 있다는 것을 알고 있다.피닉스와 윈슬로는 그 주제에 대한 개인적인 의견을 논의할 때 문 앞에 놓아두도록 권해야 한다: P&W가 내용적인 문제에 대해 뚜렷한 소수에 있다는 것이 확립된 것 같다는 점에서 나머지는 스스로 알아서 해야 한다.Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 10:58, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
사용자:93.167.122.65
자일스 코렌 기사에 대한 3O 요청을 받았으나, 내 답변이 크게 달라질 것 같지는 않다.이 논쟁은 "그는 반폴란드적 편견으로 가장 잘 알고 있다"는 문장을 선두에 추가하기 위한 편집 전쟁을 우려한다.
기사 반보호를 하고 IP주소에서 계정생성을 차단할 것을 제안할 수 있는가?
고마워.-이전IP (대화) 12:33, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- IP가 72시간 차단됨.만약 그가 같은 IP로 돌아온다면 더 길어질 것이고, IP가 바뀌면 나는 그 기사를 반감할 수 있다. --Elen of the Roads (대화) 12:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
교육의 구조적 불평등과 구조적 불평등
교육에서의 구조적 불평등은 구조적인 불평등의 오래된 버전을 모방한 것으로 보인다.나는 그 주제에 대해 아무것도 모르니, 그들이 괜찮은지 아닌지, 아니면 기사들을 병합해야 하는지 등을 전혀 알지 못한다.하지만, 귀속은 이제 깨졌으니, 그것에 대해 뭔가 조치를 취해야 한다.폴퀀트 (대화) 14:50, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 원문의 토크 페이지는 이것이 계획되었던 지난 달로 거슬러 올라가 토론하는 것을 볼 때, 단순히 사용자에게 그가 놓친 것을 설명하는 친서를 보내는 것 보다, 아니면 단순히 직접 고치는 것 보다 이것을 가지고 바로 드라마 보드로 달려가는 것을 택한 특별한 이유가 있었는가?Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 15:01, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사용자는 이미 새로운 대화 페이지에 그 효과에 대한 메모를 남겼다.좀 더 격식을 차리고 싶다면, 추가해라.
{{split from page=Structural inequality diff=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Structural_inequality&oldid=458531007 date= 22:17, 3 November 2011}}분할 페이지 맨 위에.만약 우리가 믿을 수 없을 정도로 현학적인 것이라면, 우리는 사용자 샌드박스에서 새 페이지를 쓸 수 있지만, 샌드박스 페이지에는 새 페이지의 저자와 같은 편집자가 한 명밖에 없었기 때문에, 그것은 정말 문제가 되지 않는다.Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 15:17, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사용자는 이미 새로운 대화 페이지에 그 효과에 대한 메모를 남겼다.좀 더 격식을 차리고 싶다면, 추가해라.
사용자를 위한 기부금:201.170.3.74
- 요르시797 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 201.170.3.74 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
Yorsh797이 몇몇 나쁜 업로드를 했던 공유지의 몇몇 나쁜 모조 때문에, 나는 누군가 몇몇 페이지에 그 이미지를 포함시켰기 때문에 여기 엔위키에서 괜찮은지 확인하러 갔고, 나는 IP가 문제의 사용자라고 추측한다.사용자가 주로 목표와 어시스트의 수와 관련하여 작은 편집을 하고 있다는 것을 알 수 있지만, 예를 들어 [17]은 "캡"을 많이 증가시키지만 "골"은 감소하는 등 일부 편집은 말이 되지 않는다.나는 어제 요르시797에게 그 번호에 대한 언급이 있는지 물어봤지만 아무런 회답도 받지 못했다.따라서 나는 멕시코 축구에 전문가가 아니고, 모든 것을 논리적으로 만드는 몇 가지 관련 자료를 잘못 알고 있을 수도 있었기 때문에 이 문제에 좀 더 넓은 분석을 하고 싶다
사용자 보아브칼
관리자가 이 사용자의 편집 내용을 확인할 수 있음:
사용자 보아브칼이 개인적으로 나를 공격하고 있다.그는 내가 그와 대화를 나누기도 전에 내가 범터키주의자라고 비난한다.
참조: 대화:Great_Seljuq_Empire 이란과 아제르바이잔의 투르크화 원천
이 사용자는 자신의 POV와 독창적인 연구를 추진하고 있다.나는 몇 가지 문장을 설명하는 자료를 구했다.그러나 그는 그 문장들을 좋아하지 않고 나서 책 전체를 '나쁘고, 오해의 소지가 있고, 거짓'이라고 선언하고, 그는 그 원본 자료를 삭제한다.그는 자신의 POV와 독창적인 연구를 밀어붙이며 내내 나를 비난하고 개인적으로 나를 공격하고 있다.
이 소식통은 셀주크가 페르시아의 영향하에 있었다는 것을 부인하지 않고, 단지 그들의 통치하에 오늘날의 이란과 아제르바이잔의 투르크화가 시작되었다고 말한다. 왜냐하면 그 때 투르크 민족이 그 지역으로 이주하기 시작했기 때문이다.
감사합니다 — DragonTiger23(대화 • 기여) 16:45, 2011년 11월 3일(UTC)[
- 보아브칼 (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)
- 통지 BoAbkal[18]
- DragonTiger23에게 공격[19]으로 인식되는 코멘트에 차이를 추가하라고 조언하고, 다른 편집자에게 알리는 것을 기억해야 한다고 상기시켰다.[20]
- (도움이 되기 위해) ROBRMFROMI TKCN/ 17:28, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
[21] 여기서 그는 이미 나를 '검은 범터키 선전'을 퍼뜨리고 있다고 비난하고 있다.
여기 마지막 문장[22]에서 그는 다음과 같이 말하고 있다: '나는 단지 당신이 편파적이라고 단정할 수 있다(즉, 범 투르크어) 그리고 당신의 사용자 페이지 역사에 있는 다른 위반들을 근거로, 나는 그것을 확신한다.' — DragonTiger23 (대화 • 기여) 17:58, 2011년 11월 3일 (응답]
- 나는 편집자[23]를 환영하고 (16개 편집만) 보아브칼의 토크 페이지에 개인화된 uw-npa1을 남겼다. 여기에는 다른 관련 링크(미납, pov, 균형, 관련성, dr)를 포함한 분쟁 처리에 관한 유용한 정보와 더불어 논평이 인신공격으로 오인되지 않도록 문구를 주의하라는 메모가 포함되어 있다.
- 더 이상의 조치가 필요하다고 생각하는 사람이 있는가?베스트, ROBRMFROMI TKCN/ 18:39, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
이란과 아제르바이잔의 투르크화에 대해 설명하는 두 가지 출처를 삭제하지 말라고 행정관이 사용자에게 말할 수 있는가?드래곤타이거23 (대화) 19:51, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 단순히 기사를 뒷받침하는 인용구를 삭제하는 거라면 우리에게 알려줘.만약 그것이 당신이 동의하지 않는 것으로 내용을 바꾸고 있다면, 당신은 기사의 토크 페이지에 그것을 올리고 그곳에서 보아브칼을 참여시킬 필요가 있다.너를 만나기 위한 보아브칼의 토크 페이지에 있는 예의 바르게 시작하는 것이 좋을지도 모른다.인증자(ArbCom 사례나 커뮤니티 결정 또는 정책 위반 등에 필요한 경우 제외)는 관리 용량에서 콘텐츠 분쟁에 참여하지 않는다.일단 그들이 그 내용에 관여하게 되면, 그들은 더 이상 그런 자격으로 행동할 수 없다.
- 따라서 문제가 첫 번째 문제일 경우 몇 가지 차이점을 제시하십시오.만약 그것이 콘텐츠 분쟁이라면, 토크 페이지에서 그것을 풀어보거나, 어떤 형태의 분쟁 해결을 시도해보아라.도움이 필요하면 여기 커뮤니티에 알리거나 내 토크 페이지에 글을 올려라.베스트, RobertMFROMLI TKCN/ 03:06, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
드래곤타이거23, 나와는 통하지 않을 테니 인신공격의 피해자 행세를 하지 말아줘, 그리고 너는 그 증거가 없어.더욱이 내가 직접 당신을 공격했다고 주장하기를 원한다면(그런 점에서 그것은 거짓이다), 내가 기사를 파기한 것에 대한 당신의 주장 이상을 바라보지 마십시오, 사실 그것이 공공 기물 파손으로 전혀 구성되지 않을 때.하지만 당신이 내 이름을 거론한 고발은 일종의 인신공격인데, 행정관들이 조사해야 한다고 생각한다.
사용자 토크 페이지에서 보듯이 당신이 저지른 일련의 위반행위로 미루어 볼 때, 당신이 편향된 '터키어' 관점을 주기 위해 바꾸려고 시도한 것은 대 셀주크 제국 기사뿐만이 아니라는 것은 명백하다.투르크적 관점을 편향시키기 위해 개인적으로 바꾼 다른 기사들도 많은데, 그 중 라틴 브리지와 같은 기사들도 적지 않다.
8월 23일, 당신은 "국가적인 POV 의제에 의해 동기 부여된 여러 기사에 대한 영구적인 되돌리기"로 관리자에 의해 차단되었다.
나는 네가 셀주크 대제국의 글에서 제공한 소위 '이란의 터키화'가 나쁜 소식통이었다는 것을 내 마음에는 의심의 여지가 없다.당신이 지어낸 것이든, 그리고 나서 어떤 것이든 출처로서 제공했기 때문에(그것을 더욱 믿을 수 있게 하기 위해), 또는 학문적으로 자격이 없는 출처를 사용했기 때문에 나쁘다.더 나아가 당신이 쓴 문장은 그 글에서 학문적으로 자격을 갖춘 대부분의 출처들이 하는 말, 즉 셀주크족은 이란을 투르크화하려는 의도가 전혀 없다는 것을 부정하는 것으로 이어졌다.내가 그 기사의 토크 페이지에서 분명히 지적했듯이.
너는 여기서 틀렸고 나는 개인적으로 위키백과 기사에 부정행위를 퍼뜨리려는 당신의 시도가 성공하지 못함을 알게 될 것이다.
와 살라무 알라이쿰.보아브칼 (대화) 07:08, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
제발 관리자가 이 사람에게 나에 대한 그의 강압적인 태도를 멈추라고 설명할 수 있을 것이다.그는 위키피디아를 만들고 있다:여기서 그리고 그가 편집했을 때 인신공격은 없었다 [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Seljuq_Empire&diff=458935774&oldid=458854610 위키백과:독창적인 연구는 없다. 단지 그가 출처의 문장을 좋아하지 않는다는 이유만으로 그는 그것을 '학문적으로 자격이 없다'고 선언한다. 왜냐하면 첫째로 이 작가와 다른 작가들이 '학문적으로 자격이 없다'고 결정하는 것은 보아브칼인 이 [25]이기 때문이다.그리고 이것은 다른 작가 입니다. [26] 둘 다 학계고 역사 전문가인데, 사용자 보브칼이 개인적으로 그들을 공격한다는 것은 그가 얼마나 한심하게 편향되어 있는지를 보여준다.이 말도 안 되는 것을 막을 관리자가 없는가?
구글 책에 대한 빠른 검색으로 나는 (셀주크 투르크화)에 관한 더 많은 출처를 찾아냈다. 이것은 정말 많은 역사책에 쓰여져 있다. 나는 이것을 꾸며내지 못했다.여기[27], [28]
이란/아제르바이잔 투르크화 문제에 관하여왜냐하면 이것은 이미 사실이기 때문이다.그러나 보아브칼과 토론할 방법은 없다. 보아브칼은 이 모든 출처를 똑같이 나쁜 소식통이라고 하고 저자들은 학문적이지 않은 소식통이라고 이름붙일 것이다.이것은 보아브칼이 중립적이지 않기 때문에 간단하다. 그는 그의 관점을 밀어붙이려 하고 있다. 그가 그것들을 좋아하지 않을 때 출처를 삭제한다.
이것은 출처의 온라인 버전이다(그래서 그가 거짓으로 주장하는 것처럼 내가 꾸며낸 것이 아니다) [29]
여기 [30]
당신은 이 사용자 boabkal을 믿을 수 있는가?간단히 말해 이란과 아제르바이잔의 투르크화와 관련해 그는 편견을 갖고 원천 삭제를 주장하고 있다.그는 가장 간단한 주장을 한다.출처가 나쁘다.이 사용자는 출처나 위키백과 규칙에 대해 전혀 신경 쓰지 않는다.그는 범 투르크주의를 퍼뜨리는 내내 나를 비난한다. 어떻게 그가 내가 모르는 것을 하게 되었을까? 만약 내가 그가 범 이란인이었던 한 번 글을 쓴다면, 나는 차단될 것이다. 나는 개인적으로 누군가를 공격하고 싶지는 않지만, 그 자신이 실제로 자신을 묘사하고 있는 것처럼 보인다. 그는 인종적으로 편향되어 있고 그의 범 페르시아주의를 밀어붙이려고 하는 것 같다.나는 많은 페르시아인들이 어떤 이유로 투르크어/터키어와 관련된 모든 것에 대해 인종차별을 한다는 것을 경험으로부터 배웠다.그리고 그들은 위키피디아에서 항상 그것을 피해간다.드래곤타이거23 (대화) 10:42, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
살라무 알라이쿰,
바로 위의 당신의 게시물은 당신이 얼마나 무지한지 증명한다.왜 내가 페르시아인이거나 판 이란인이라는 결론을 내렸지?나는 투르크 문화나 이란 문화 둘 중 어느 것도 신경 쓰지 않을 수 없었다.내 동기는 위키피디아를 편견과 그릇됨으로부터 분명히 하는 것이다.참고로 아랍 국가인 카타르에서 온 카타리 입니다.
당신의 출처는 전세계 학자들이 증명해 온 흔하게 받아들여지는 학문적 견해와 모순된다.당신의 출처는 백과사전이 아니다.이 책은 한두 명의 작가가 쓴 역사책이고 백과사전이라는 제목이 붙어 있지만 그렇지 않다.백과사전들은 학자들과 학자들로부터 그들의 정보를 뒷받침하는 참고 문헌을 가지고 있다.네가 준 정보원은 그렇지 않아.
셀주크 제국이 표방했던 것과 상반되는 만큼 계속 제거하겠다.
나는 몇 번이고 너에게 그 진술에 반대되는 것은 아무것도 없다고 말했지만, 진술의 타당성 이외에는 아무것도 없다.그것은 유효한 진술이 아니다.당신의 출처는 주류 견해와 모순된다.그게 다야
PS: 기사에 대한 토크 페이지에서 이 논의를 계속하십시오.보아브칼 (대화) 18:25, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
위키피디아를 편견과 왜곡에서 벗어나게 하고 싶으세요?그럼 우선 네 계정을 삭제하는 것부터 시작해봐. 너 때문에 편견을 퍼뜨리고 있는 거야.그 출처는 아무 것도 모순되지 않으며, 100% 타당하다. 당신은 당신 자신의 독창적인 연구를 이용하여 학자들이 쓴 다른 두 저자의 출처를 제거하고자 한다.이를 막을 관리자가 없는가?그것은 공공 기물 파손이다.고마워DragonTiger23 (대화)20:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
Ramanatruth는 계속해서 한 부분을 비우고 있다.
Ramanatruth가 Advaita Vedanta에서 전 구간을 계속 비우는 것을 보았다. 72.92.115.76 (토크) 20:39, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 네가 왜 이런 말을 하는지 좀 다른 점을 보여 줄 수 있니?또한 나는 라마나트루트에게 이것을 통지했다.Wilding61476 (대화) 20:43, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
어떻게 해야 할지 모르지만 역사를 들여다보면 뻔히 알 수 있어야 한다.라마나트루스는 한동안 있었던 것으로 알고 있는 '불교영향부 주장'을 계속 삭제한다. 72.92.115.76 (대화) 20:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
Ramana From Ramana Truth from Ramana Truth
컨텐츠 분쟁이 반달리즘이 아님
나는 몇 년 동안 Advaita Vendanta를 배우고 연습했다.만약 당신이 나의 편집내용에 이의를 제기한다면 토론합시다.왜 wikipedia왜 new이나 wikipedia wikipedia wikipedia wikipedia wikipedia wikipedia. 이지만 내 내용을 나는 위키피디아를 처음 접하지만 내 모든 내용을 검증하기 위해 참고자료를 추가할 것이다.나는 위키피디아에서 Advaita Vedanta가 제대로 표현되도록 하고 싶다.
"브라만이 전부"라는 개념인 아드바타 철학은 힌두교 성서 바하바드 기타에서 부처의 탄생을 앞서는 것으로 언급되어 있다.
부처의 탄생을 앞지른 아드바이타 베단타에 관한 고대 문헌
http://http:///www.sriramanamaharshi.org/bookstallsales/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=128_129
네가 원한다면 내가 여러 참고 문헌을 추가하여 Advaita 사상과 불교의 탄생을 증명할 수 있다.
Advaita Vedanta는 Bhagavad Gita를 포함한 우파니샤드 문헌에 언급된 힌두교의 중심 교리다.
아디 산카라와 라마나 마하르시는 인도에서 불교가 전파되던 시기에 인도 인구를 힌두교로 돌아오게 하기 위해 아다이타 철학을 명시적으로 취함으로써 힌두교의 르네상스를 이끌었다.
나는 당신이 Advaita Vedanta가 올바르게 대표될 수 있도록 대화를 할 것을 요청한다.
편집된 내용을 토론 없이 조기 반달리즘으로 보도하는 것은 공개 백과사전의 정신을 무너뜨린다.
대 셀주크 제국 페이지의 사용자 보아브칼 파괴 편집
관리자라면 누구나 이 페이지와 사용자 Boabkal이 편집한 유해성을 볼 수 있는가?문제는 이 사용자가 출처를 기준으로 두 문장을 삭제한다는 점이다.먼저 그는 나를 범 투르크주의자로 몰아세우고 범 투르크식 프로포간다를 퍼뜨렸다고 맹렬히 비난했고, 그 후 그는 출처와 저자들을 공격한다.
[여기에 [32]] 및 [여기에] [33]을(를) [토크] 페이지에 표시
나는 모든 관리자에게 이 페이지를 보고 이 사용자에게 설명하고 소스 삭제를 중지할 것을 요청한다.
고마워DragonTiger23 (대화)20:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
사용자 Xizer에 의한 BLP 위반 및 불활성화
Xizer(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 과거의 블록이 적재된 과거의 행태로 되돌아가 WP에서 도달한 합의를 뒤엎고 William_Adams_(판사)에서 편집전을 벌이고 있다.BLPN과 인신공격: diff1나는 더 이상의 혼란을 막기 위해 이 사용자 블록을 요청한다.닥터K 02:35, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
사용자 Dr.K에 의한 3회전의 규칙 위반 및 비침습성.
닥터K(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 현재 위키백과 정책에 위배되지 않는 이 글에 대한 가치 있고, 잘 소싱된 기여를 뒤집는 윌리엄_Adams_(판사)에서 편집전을 벌이고 있다.이것이 오늘날 K박사의 세 번째 기사의 귀환이 되었듯이, 이 사용자는 현재 위키백과의 3회귀 법칙을 위반하고 있다. 규칙이 분명히 다음과 같이 명시하고 있기 때문이다.
- 24시간 내에 한 페이지에 세 번 이상 되돌리는 것은 거의 항상 즉각적인 블록의 근거가 된다.
WP에 대한 합의 없음:BLPN은 CNN과 NBC와 같은 신뢰할 수 있는 뉴스 매체에 의해 수 차례 언급되고 있는 논란이 되고 있는 인터넷 동영상을 둘러싼 현재의 사건과 관련된 정보를 이 기사에 포함시켜야 하는지에 대해 도달했다.
가서 WP:BLPN의 기사에 대한 토론을 읽어 보십시오.그것은 말 그대로 네 명의 남자들만이 그 기사가 존재해야 하는지 아닌지에 대해 토론하는 것이지, 어떤 내용이 그 기사에 포함되어야 하는지는 아니다.시저 (토크) 02:45, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- WP:3RRN은 편집 전쟁을 보고하기에 가장 좋은 곳이다.토크 페이지에 관한 한, 사람들이 삭제해야 한다고 생각한다면 AFD로 가져가는 것은 어떨까?그렇게 하면 한동안 문제가 해결될 것이다.nformationo 02:47, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
이 보고서(자이자(토크 · 기여)는 위키피디아의 목적에 대한 심한 오해(힌트: 이곳은 백과사전이며, vido가 보여줄 수 있는 것과 상관없이 사람들을 수치스럽게 하는 장소가 아니다)와 WP에 대한 심각한 오해에 바탕을 두고 있다.BLP. 윌리엄 애덤스(판사) (디프)에서 시저가 가장 최근에 편집한 편집은 "하하"라는 편집 요약을 곁들인 공격 작품을 추가했다.어서 해, 이년아." K박사는 BLP를 보호하기 위해 필요한 수만큼 되돌아가야 한다.만약 Xizer가 그들이 이제 적절한 절차를 이해했다는 것을 나타낼 수 있다면, 더 이상의 조치를 취할 필요가 없다.특히 진지한 토론 없이 그러한 편집이 반복된다면 시저는 주제와 분리될 필요가 있을 것이다.조누니크 (대화) 03:02, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
나는 또한 Xizer가 실제로 정책 페이지를 잘못 인용하고 있다는 것을 주목해야 한다.WP:3RR의 어느 곳에서도 그가 위에서 인용한 문장을 말하지 않으며, WP:3RR의 문장이나 문장이 그의 말을 의미하도록 합리적으로 패러프하거나 해석될 수 있는 것도 없다.그의 불만의 본질에 대해서는 더이상의 언급은 없지만,그의주장이 이처럼 고의적이고 명백한 정책 오보를 담고있을 때 나는그의 주장에 동조하지 않는다.--Jayron32 03:09, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[- 고전적인 WP:부메랑. 나는 그 블록에 전적으로 동의한다. - 부시 레인저 03:12, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 템플릿:3에서 인용한 내용RR. nformationoTalk 03:14, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 고마워. 너무 힘들어.나는 특정한 표현이 바뀌어야 한다는 것을 주목해야 한다. 나는 내가 그것을 많이 좋아하는지 확실하지 않지만, 이곳은 장소가 아니기 때문에 여기서 더 이상 논의하지 않을 것이다.토의를 시작하려고 템플릿 토크 페이지로 향했는데... --Jayron32 03:19, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
윌리엄 애덤스(판사)
나는 이 기사에 대해 독립적인 견해가 필요하다.AfD가 진행되는 동안 일부 편집자들이 WP 기사에 뉴스 기사(이들 중 상당수는 서로 사본)를 소개하고자 하는 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있다.IMO, 너무 많은 이름짓기와 수치심이 일어나고 있고, 그런 링크 없이 기사를 완전히 차단하겠지만, 내가 충분히 중립적이지 못한 것 같아(또한, 비디오를 봤는데 속이 메스꺼워.어떤 빠르고 단호한 조치를 취해 주면 고맙겠다. 또는 조치가 아니더라도 AfD 자체에 메모를 해두면 감사하겠다.드레이미스 (대화) 04:27, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 비디오를 본 적은 없지만, 그것이 역겹다고 가정해도, 어떻게 User:Sceptre는 그 판사를 "거짓말할 수 있는 나쁜 놈"이라고 부르는 것을 피한다.내가 AfD 페이지에 언급했듯이, 그것은 놀랄 만큼 미개하고 BLP 위반이다.Sceptre is, of course, entitled to his opinion, but it doesn't mean he can express it with impunity here. (As an aside, I don't know if "cunt" has a different meaning in British English, but in American English, it's one of the more offensive and vulgar words in the language.)--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
- 그리고 넌 그걸 반복했어, tsk tsk.그래, 나도 그걸 봤는데 뭐라고 해야 할지 모르겠어.난 우리 일반 비군사적인 사람들을 변호하는 것으로 기록되어 있어, 그러니 아무 말도 해서는 안 돼.하지만 그건 어떤 언어로든 무례한 행동이고, 비디오에 나오는 사람이 정말 역겨운 짓을 하고 있지만, 그것에 대해 우리가 언급할 자리는 아니에요.스셉터는 정말 그런 말을 하지 말았어야 했다.그가 어떻게 그걸 모면할 수 있을까?나는 예의를 지키는 것을 방해하는 것이 아니라, 많은 관리자들은 그렇지 않다.내 생각엔 그게 전부인 것 같아.물론, 당신은 그들의 토크 페이지에 경고를 보내는 것은 자유롭다.그냥 개자식이라고 부르지 마. 내가 너를 순식간에 막을 테니까.드레이미스 (토크) 01:28, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 정말 이것에 어떻게 대응해야 할지 모르겠어.그는 나쁜 짓을 한다.인정하시죠.하지만 당신은 내가 그것에 대해 논평한 것에 대해 나에게 잽을 날리고 내가 해보지도 않고 심지어 생각지도 못한 일에 대해 나를 블럭으로 위협하는 것에 더 관심이 있는 것 같다.언젠가는 이런 일에 대한 나의 의견을 배우게 될 것 같아. 전혀 설득력이 없어.나도 네가 나를 무시하지 않았다는 것에 감사해야 할 것 같아.한 번 더 인용하자면: "그것밖에 없나 봐." --Bb23 (대화) 01:52, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- Bb23, 기운 내('tsk tsk'는 농담이야--나는 네가 그렇게 유머가 없고, 문자 그대로의 독자인 줄 몰랐어).너는 내 의견을 완전히 잘못 읽었어. 내가 너에게 동의하는 것을 네가 어떻게 보지 않는지. (나는 무례함을 인정했어!) 동시에, 나는 너에게 우리가 보통 그러한 예의 위반에 대해 행동하지 않는다고 말하는 거야.그래, 그게 전부야. 당신은 그런 말을 하는 것을 막을 행정관을 찾을 수 없을 것이고, 슬프지만, 아마 그런 식일 것이다.난 사람들한테 그런 이름을 부르지 않을 거야, 넌 그럴 수 없어, 그리고 스셉트레도 그럴 수 없어.이제 내가 어떻게 했으면 좋겠니?내가 그들에게 경고를 남겼는데, 내가 나쁜 말 한 마디를 즉석 블록으로 나눠줄까?당신이 예의에 대한 생각을 가지고 있는 것과 함께 가는 선례를 이해할 때까지, 그리고 당신이 예의에 관한 정책을 시행하는 것의 어려움을 이해할 때까지, 그리고 당신이 몇몇 사람들이 당신들과 다른 방식으로 그들 자신을 표현하는 것을 볼 때까지, 아마도 당신은 이것을 포함한 내가 말하는 모든 것을 무시해야 할 것이다.드레이미스 (토크) 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC) 16:35 [
99% 선언
99% 선언문은 AfD 토론 중에 중대한 파괴적 편집을 하고 있다.우리가 무엇을 '지키고 있다'거나 '실종하고 있다'는 것을 알 길이 없다.무관심한 행정관이 검토하여 적절한 조치를 취한다면 도움이 될 것이다.--노와 (대화)20:44, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 AFD는 겨우 이틀밖에 되지 않았다.공감대를 형성할 수 있는 시간을 좀 더 주고 싶다 m.o.p 21:16, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 알아봐줘서 고마워문제는 AfD가 아니라 AfD동안의 전쟁을 편집하는 것이다.2011년 11월 4일 20:45에서 이 버전을 고려하십시오. 3분 후 이 버전을 고려하십시오. 노와(토크) 21:33, 2011년 11월 4일(UTC)[
- 내 눈이 흐려질 때까지 AFD 페이지의 역사를 연구한 결과, 나는 당신이 기사 자체를 의미하는 것을 깨달았다.사용자를 차단한 경우:팩트체커는 31시간 동안 이 문제에 대한 대규모 편집 전쟁을 위해 당신의 서비스를 제공한다.향후 편집-경전 불만 사항을 WP에 제출하십시오.AN/3RR로 적절한 서비스를 제공하고, 문제에 대해 훨씬 더 명확하게 한다.(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 21:43, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 알아봐줘서 고마워문제는 AfD가 아니라 AfD동안의 전쟁을 편집하는 것이다.2011년 11월 4일 20:45에서 이 버전을 고려하십시오. 3분 후 이 버전을 고려하십시오. 노와(토크) 21:33, 2011년 11월 4일(UTC)[
사용자:다른 편집자 및 대화 페이지의 스팸 게시물을 조작하는 두 가지 방법
- 참고: 이 섹션을 #단일 목적 계정, 위의 비누 상자에 대한 아티클 오용과 병합할 것을 권장한다.듀얼러스 (토크) 05:10, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)
사용자:듀얼러스는 99% 선언문[34]과 다른 사용자의 "삭제 요청" 토론에 남겨진 스팸 비누박스 메시지를 사용해 왔다.그는 편집자가 거기에 남긴 메시지처럼 보이게 하기 위해 그 텍스트를 토크 페이지에 배치했고 문제의 편집자로도 그 게시물에 서명했다.[35] [36] 그는 편집자 토크 페이지에도 가서 내가 남긴 글을 조작하기 시작했다.[37] 그는 또한 내 토크 페이지에서 더 이상 나에게 연락하지 말아달라는 나의 이전의 요구에 대해 위키 토론을 요청하기에 적합하다고 보았다.[38] [39]--아마디스트(대화) 04:42, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Talk:99% 선언과 WP에 대한 나의 기여의 공백[40][41][42][43][44]에 강력히 반대한다.그의 토크 페이지에서 마이클 폴록을 물고 늘어진다.듀얼러스 (토크) 05:10, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 네가 다른 편집자 게시물을 조작하는 것에 강력히 반대한다.전에 경고했던 것.--아마디스트 (대화) 05:27, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 정확히 무엇에 대해 불평하고 있는가?토크 99% 선언의 같은 부분을 방금 한 시간이라는 공간에 네 번이나 비워 놓았는데 어떻게 나를 '조작'이라고 비난할 수 있겠는가.WP:TALK 읽어봤니? 나는 네가 이미 편집 전쟁에 대한 경고를 받았다는 것을 알고 있어.듀얼러스 (토크) 05:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 네가 다른 편집자 게시물을 조작하는 것에 강력히 반대한다.전에 경고했던 것.--아마디스트 (대화) 05:27, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
사용자:듀얼러스는 극도로 파괴적이고 건방진 편집장이다.그는 괴롭힐 정도로 자기와 의견이 다른 편집자들을 호되게 꾸짖는 버릇이 있는데, 종종 편집자들에게 오프위키(off-wiki)를 하라고 압박한다.[46][47][48][49][50] Inserting disputed content into articles without adequate discussion,[51][52] Making bad-faith accusations against anyone who disagrees with him,[53][54][55][56][57][58] and is a constant state of "I didn't hear that!" where he argues the same points ad nauseum regardless of how many times they have been refuted by multiple edi토르스. [59][60][61][62] 그는 지난 24시간 동안 자신에 대해 편집-경고 게시판에 불만을 제기해 왔으며, 토크(Talk)를 보는 것 이상 걸리지 않는다.월가를 점령하라.위키백과:삭제 검토/로그/2011년 10월 26일 또는 해당 기사 토크 페이지에서는 이 편집자의 업무 중단 성향을 명확하게 파악할 수 있다.트루실버 06:50, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 내가 더 잘 말했어야지, 트루실버적어도 실질적인 콘텐츠 정책과 협업 분위기 유지와 관련된 정책에 대한 완전한 경시를 문서화하기 위해 해당 사용자의 약 500시간의 터무니없는 편집 행위를 살펴보지 않고는 안 된다.원심분리기(f / k / a FCAYS) (토크) (contracts) 16:57, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그 차이점들을 검토할 것을 추천한다.몇몇 사람들은 솔직한 실수를 보여주지만, 나는 그들 중 어느 누구도 "매우 파괴적이고 건방진 편집자"를 어떻게 보여주는지 모르겠다.솔직히 나는 가식적인 태도가 무엇을 의미하는지 모르겠다.나는 내 행동에 대한 논의를 환영하며, 타협을 위해 노력해 왔다.하지만 지금으로서는 누가 내 빈 자료를 다시 토크 99% 선언으로 되돌릴 수 있을까?글의 주제의 저자로부터 나만의 기사토크 페이지 섹션이 삭제되는 것을 막기 위해 노력한다는 이유만으로 단순히 전쟁을 편집했다는 비난을 받고 싶지는 않다.듀얼러스 (토크) 07:04, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과:기사 소유권?--아마디 사이언티스트 (대화) 07:31, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 내가 "당신이 반복해서 비워낸 내 토크 페이지 섹션"을 언급할 때, 나는 내가 그것들을 소유한다고 말하는 것이 아니라, 나는 그것을 거기에 두었다고 말하고 있다.WP별:TPO 당신이 그것들을 삭제하는 것은 완전히 부적절하다!듀얼러스 (토크) 07:41, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과별:생활자의 전기 공급되지 않았거나 공급되지 않은 생존자에 대한 논쟁적인 자료(자료가 부정적이든, 긍정적이든 중립적이든, 또는 단지 의문스러운 것이든)는 토론을 기다리지 않고 즉시 제거해야 한다.[1]끈질기게 또는 혐오스럽게 이 정책을 위반하는 사용자는 편집이 차단될 수 있다.--아마디스트(대화) 07:42, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 방침상 그렇게 되어 있어.당신이 계속 삭제하는 자료가 어떻게든 BLP 문제라는 말씀이세요?듀얼러스 (토크) 07:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- BLPVIO가 안 보여.어떻게 BLP를 위반하는지 기사토크 페이지에 설명해주길 바란다.스파르타즈Humbug! 07:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 만약 편집자가 아무런 언급도 없이 기사 자체에 대한 주장을 한다면, 그들이 그 사람이라고 주장하는 사실과 상관없이 그것은 논쟁의 여지가 있다.Dualus가 이 소재를 계속 사용하는 것은 명백한 BLP 문제다.이게 틀렸나?--아마디스트(대화) 08:07, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 그렇다, 그것은 BLP를 잘못 적용한 것이다.콘텐츠를 수신 해제하는 좋은 이유와 우리는 이 콘텐츠를 인터넷 게시물처럼 무의미하게 사용할 수는 없지만 BLP vio는 아니다.스파르타즈Humbug! 08:23, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 이 문제를 BLP 문제로 삼는 지명된 당사자에 대한 구체적인 고발은 해당 대화 페이지를 참조하십시오.고마워.--Amadcientist (대화) 08:37, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다, 그것은 BLP를 잘못 적용한 것이다.콘텐츠를 수신 해제하는 좋은 이유와 우리는 이 콘텐츠를 인터넷 게시물처럼 무의미하게 사용할 수는 없지만 BLP vio는 아니다.스파르타즈Humbug! 08:23, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 만약 편집자가 아무런 언급도 없이 기사 자체에 대한 주장을 한다면, 그들이 그 사람이라고 주장하는 사실과 상관없이 그것은 논쟁의 여지가 있다.Dualus가 이 소재를 계속 사용하는 것은 명백한 BLP 문제다.이게 틀렸나?--아마디스트(대화) 08:07, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- BLPVIO가 안 보여.어떻게 BLP를 위반하는지 기사토크 페이지에 설명해주길 바란다.스파르타즈Humbug! 07:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 방침상 그렇게 되어 있어.당신이 계속 삭제하는 자료가 어떻게든 BLP 문제라는 말씀이세요?듀얼러스 (토크) 07:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과별:생활자의 전기 공급되지 않았거나 공급되지 않은 생존자에 대한 논쟁적인 자료(자료가 부정적이든, 긍정적이든 중립적이든, 또는 단지 의문스러운 것이든)는 토론을 기다리지 않고 즉시 제거해야 한다.[1]끈질기게 또는 혐오스럽게 이 정책을 위반하는 사용자는 편집이 차단될 수 있다.--아마디스트(대화) 07:42, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 내가 "당신이 반복해서 비워낸 내 토크 페이지 섹션"을 언급할 때, 나는 내가 그것들을 소유한다고 말하는 것이 아니라, 나는 그것을 거기에 두었다고 말하고 있다.WP별:TPO 당신이 그것들을 삭제하는 것은 완전히 부적절하다!듀얼러스 (토크) 07:41, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 위키백과:기사 소유권?--아마디 사이언티스트 (대화) 07:31, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
듀얼루스는 이 논쟁적인 자료를 계속 대체하고 있으며 위키피디아의 정책과 정신에 반하는 전쟁을 편집해 왔다.이러한 행동과 원치 않는 접촉을 차단하는 것이 이 시기에 적절한가?--아마디스트 (대화) 07:44, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- "원하지 않은 연락"?내가 너의 토크 페이지에 쓰는 것을 계속 삭제한다는 사실을 말하는 거니?나는 당신이 나의 질문을 삭제한 것을 당신의 토크 페이지에서 검토하기를 추천한다.그동안, 당신이 폴록씨로부터 계속 메시지를 비우는 구체적인 이유는 무엇인가?듀얼러스 (토크) 07:47, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 충분한 ANI는 콘텐츠 분쟁 참가자들 사이의 다툼을 위한 장소가 아니다.두 분 다 앞뒤를 막아서 다른 사람들이 그 주장을 관철하고 고려하도록 허락해 주시겠습니까?두 사람 사이의 말다툼으로 그 구역을 가득 메우는 것은 멈추지 않으면 너희 둘 다 막히게 될 것이다.스파르타즈 07:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
나는 편집자가 99-whatever라고 부르던 것이 그가 주장하는 사실이라는 추정에 이의를 제기할 것이다.[63] 사실 BLP 규정에 따르면 "보수적"이라는 것은 그가 아니라고 가정하는 것이 될 것이며, 그가 하는 말은 입에 담기듯이 BLP 위반일 가능성이 있다고 가정하는 것이다.자, 만약 실제 주제가 그 남자라는 것이 확인될 수 있다면, 그건 다른 이야기야.그러나 그것은 믿을 만한 소싱에 의해 이루어져야지, 누군가라고 주장하는 레드 링크가 아니라.예를 들어 CNN이 실제 남성과 인터뷰를 하고 "이 99대 사용자 ID로 위키피디아를 편집하고 있다"고 말한다면, 그것은 그것을 더욱 신뢰할 수 있게 만드는 경향이 있을 것이다.『야구 벅스 당근→ 10:58, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)』[
- 실제로. 개인이 게시물의 주체를 자처하고 수정을 요구하는 경우, 그들은 보통 그 주장을 먼저 증명/검증하기 위해 OTRS로 향하지 않는가?'나는 푸니까 알고 있다'는 이유로 기사나 토크 페이지에 정보를 넣는 것은 BLP 위반일 가능성이 높다.도로의 엘렌 (대화) 11시 9분, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 정말 유감스럽게도 나는 그때나 지금이나 실제 사람들이 그들과 관련된 것들을 올리는 것이 드문 일이 아니기 때문에 그것을 BLP로 보지 않는다.그 매력이 분명히 그 논평의 가치를 떨어뜨릴 근거가 되고 있고 우리는 그것에 전혀 무게를 두지 않을 것이지만 나는 그것이 어떻게 BLP를 위반하는지를 보려고 아직도 애쓰고 있다.아마도 이것은 BLP 크리프의 또 다른 사례일 것이다.이 점에 대해 좀 더 폭넓은 공감대를 얻고자 노력하는 것이 어디에서도 이 문제에 대해 총론할 만한 가치가 있는가?스파르타즈Humbug! 05:39, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 내가 레드링크 편집기에서 스팸의 정확한 부분과 그 부분을 여기에 게시하기를 원했니?나는 또한 나에게 보낸 이메일들을 법적인 위협으로 게시할 수도 있지만, 편집자가 아이디프 금지령을 받았고 나는 그들을 다른 관리자에게 넘겼기 때문에 현 시점에서 불필요한 것으로 보이는 이메일을 게시할 수도 있다. 하지만 만약 당신이 이것을 위키피디아에 대한 영구적인 금지 조치로 규정하도록 공개되어야 한다고 생각한다면 나는 할 수 있다.어떤 이유에서인지 그는 내가 행정관이라고 생각하거나 그가 금지되는 이유를 알고 있는 것 같다.--아마디스트 (대화) 08:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 정말 유감스럽게도 나는 그때나 지금이나 실제 사람들이 그들과 관련된 것들을 올리는 것이 드문 일이 아니기 때문에 그것을 BLP로 보지 않는다.그 매력이 분명히 그 논평의 가치를 떨어뜨릴 근거가 되고 있고 우리는 그것에 전혀 무게를 두지 않을 것이지만 나는 그것이 어떻게 BLP를 위반하는지를 보려고 아직도 애쓰고 있다.아마도 이것은 BLP 크리프의 또 다른 사례일 것이다.이 점에 대해 좀 더 폭넓은 공감대를 얻고자 노력하는 것이 어디에서도 이 문제에 대해 총론할 만한 가치가 있는가?스파르타즈Humbug! 05:39, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
추가 편집 워링
내가 이 편집-전쟁 공지를 만든 지 하루도 안 돼서 페이지가 보호되었다.
거기서 필자가 썼듯이, 듀얼러스는 이전에 여러 차례 편집전쟁(위에서 언급하기도 함)으로 주의를 받은 적이 있으며, 다른 편집자들의 동의를 얻지 않고, 단지 토크 페이지에 논평하는 것만으로도 계속적인 덧셈을 정당화한다고 생각하는 것 같다.
현재, xe는 다른 기사에 정확히 같은 일을 하고 있다. - 추가하기 [64] 그리고 다른 사용자가 그것을 제거하면 [65] Dualus는 그것을 다시 "토크당 교체"라고 말한다[66].
그러나 이 대화에 대한 합의는 없다. 단지 듀얼러스가 추가하겠다고 말했을 뿐이고, 다른 사용자 한 명이 삭제했다.[67]
Dualus는 위키피디아에 혼란을 일으키고 있고, 나는 xe는 이제 막아야 한다고 생각한다; 많은 사용자들이 우리의 정책, 지침, 규범을 설명하려고 노력했지만 Dualus는 그것들을 따를 수 없는 것 같다. Chzz ► 20:43, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 전적으로 동의한다.이 편집기를 접할 때마다 사용자:듀얼루스는 따라오지 않고, 단지 다음 날 다시, 그리고 그 다음 날 다시 설명되는 것을 보기만 했을 뿐, 기타 등등.어느 순간부터 선의를 갖기 어려워지고 사용자가 의도적으로 파괴적이라고 생각하기 시작해야 한다.트루실버 21:10, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
나는 그가 내 자신을 계속 금지해야 한다고 생각하지만, 그렇다면 나는 편집자와 더 적은 역사를 가지고 있고, 편집자들의 접촉을 중단하라는 요청은 여기서 요청되어야 한다고 생각한다.그래서, 만약 그에게 변명의 금지가 주어지지 않는다면, 나는 그가 내 토크 페이지에 어떤 글도 올리지 못하도록 차단해 줄 것을 요청하겠다.--아마디 사이언티스트 (대화) 08:12, 2011년 11월 5일 (
BLP의 특정 섹션 위반
비판 및 칭찬[68]:자료가 책임감 있고 보수적이며 사심 없는 어조로 제시되는 한, 신뢰할 수 있는 2차 출처로 소싱될 수 있다면 비판과 찬사가 포함되어야 한다.
그 정보는 원래 책임감 있고 보수적이거나 사심이 없는 어조로 제시되거나 그런 식으로 반복되지 않았다.그것은 단순히 비난과 정보를 반복하기 위해 붙여졌다.
도전받았거나 도전받을 가능성이 있는 [69]:위키피디아의 소싱 정책인 Verifiability는 모든 인용문과 도전받거나 도전받을 가능성이 있는 모든 자료는 인라인 인용문을 사용하여 신뢰할 수 있고 발표된 출처에 귀속되어야 한다고 말한다. 이 표준을 충족하지 않는 자료는 삭제될 수 있다. 이 정책은 그러한 원칙을 확장하며, 비소급적 또는 비소급적 생존자에 대한 논쟁적 자료는 논의 없이 즉시 제거되어야 한다고 덧붙였다. 이는 소재가 부정적이거나, 긍정적이거나, 중립적이거나, 아니면 단지 의문스러운지, 그리고 그것이 전기나 다른 일부 기사에 있는지는 적용된다.
이것을 기사에 넣고 다시 토크 페이지에 반복했을 때 어떤 종류의 언급도 사용되지 않았다.
비소싱되거나 제대로 소싱되지 않은 논쟁성 물질 제거 [70]:BLP의 주제가 작성되지 않은 경우(아래 참조) 또는 검증가능성을 충족하기 위해 다른 방법으로 실패한 출처에 의존하는 자에 의존하는 자에 대한 추정 자료(원래 연구 없음 참조)를 즉시 제거한다.표준
이것은 독창적인 연구를 구성하며 전혀 조달되지 않는다.자료를 반품은 내가 제거한 후에 이 조를 위반하는 것이다.
가십 및 피드백 루프[71]를 피하십시오.가십거리를 반복하지 마라. 출처가 믿을 만한지, 자료가 진실이라고 제시되고 있는지, 사실이더라도 그 주제에 대한 무관심한 기사와 관련이 있는지 자문해 보라. 족제비 말을 사용하는 출처와 익명의 출처에게 자료를 귀속시키는 출처를 경계하라.
자료를 배치한 사용자는 익명의 출처여서 실명이 아닌 사용자 이름을 사용했으며 단순히 새로운 위키백과 사용자인 만큼 신뢰할 수 있는 출처로서 실패하고 기사토크 페이지에서도 반복되어서는 안 된다.
제목을 자체 게시된 소스로 사용[72]:살아 있는 사람은 보도자료나 개인 웹사이트를 통해 자신에 관한 자료를 게재할 수 있다. 이러한 자료는 다음과 같은 경우에만 출처로 사용될 수 있다: # 지나치게 자기 잇속적인 것이 아니다. # 그것은 제3자에 대한 주장을 포함하지 않는다. # 주제와 직접 관련되지 않은 사건에 대한 주장을 포함하지 않는다. # 그것의 진정성에 대한 합리적인 의심은 없다. # 기사는 주로 그러한 출처에 근거하지 않는다.
만약 듀얼루스가 이 사람이 정말 실존 인물이라는 가정 하에 진행된다면, 위키피디아에 스스로 게재된 것으로 본 항을 위반하고 기사나 토크 페이지에 대한 사용 기준을 충족하지 못한다.
프라이버시에 유리한 가정 피해 방지[73]:한두 가지 사건에만 주목할 만한 사람에 대해 글을 쓸 때, 모든 세부 사항을 포함하여, 자료가 잘 소싱되어 있어도 문제가 발생할 수 있다. 의심스러운 경우, 전기 자료는 완전히 소싱되고, 중립적이며, 온 토픽이 있는 버전으로 되돌아가야 한다. 이것은 다른 사람의 행동의 희생자가 되는 것에서 대체로 또는 전적으로 주목 받는 개인들을 대할 때 특히 중요하다.위키백과 편집자는 고의든 아니든 피해에 참여하거나 연장하는 방식으로 행동해서는 안 된다.
이것을 여기에 배치한 편집자는 전혀 언급되지 않았음에도 불구하고 피해자를 연기하고 있다.이러한 주장과 비난을 반복함으로써 이것은 이 조를 위반한다.
개인 정보의 개인 정보 보호 및 주요 출처 사용[74]:신분 도용이 증가함에 따라, 사람들은 점점 더 그들의 이름과 생년월일을 사적인 것으로 여긴다. 위키피디아는 신뢰할 수 있는 출처 또는 주체가 반대하지 않는다고 합리적으로 추론할 수 있도록 주제와 연결된 출처에 의해 널리 공표된 전체 이름과 생년월일을 포함한다. 대상자가 생년월일이 포함된 것에 대해 불평하거나 눈에 띄는 사람이 눈에 띄면, 주의의 편에서 실수를 하고 연도를 간단히 열거한다. 비슷한 맥락에서, 글에는 일반적으로 주체가 관리하는 웹사이트에 대한 링크가 허용되지만, 우편 주소, 이메일 주소, 전화 번호 또는 기타 생활자의 연락처 정보가 포함되지 않아야 한다. 피험자에 대한 개인 정보를 얻기 위한 주요 출처의 오용에 대해서는 위 내용을 참조한다.
우리는 사용자가 지금 자신의 정체성에 대해 정직하다는 믿음 위에 주체의 사생활을 가정해야 한다.사용자는 그러한 정보를 증명하기 위한 추가 증거나 참고자료를 게시하지 않았으며, 그 정보를 반복하여 본 항을 위반한다.
비교적 알려지지 않은 사람[75]:위키피디아는 일반적으로 잘 알려져 있지 않지만, 출품작으로는 충분히 주목할 만한 인물에 대한 전기 자료를 포함하고 있다. 그러한 경우, 높은 품질의 이차 선원에 초점을 맞추어, 운동 자제하고 그들의 공신성과 관련된 물질만 포함시킨다. 피험자가 발행한 자료는 사용할 수 있으나 주의하여 사용할 수 있다. 위 내용을 참조한다. 개인의 평판에 나쁜 영향을 미칠 수 있는 자료는 특별히 주의해서 다루어야 한다; 많은 국가에서 명예 훼손 주장을 반복하는 것은 실행 가능하고, 공인이 아닌 피험자에 대한 추가적인 보호가 있다.
정보를 반복적으로 추가하는 것을 자제하는 것은 거의 없다. 2차 소스 없음. 그 정보를 반복하는 것은 의심스럽다.
한 종목에서만 주목할 만한 주제[76]:위키피디아는 뉴스도, 무분별한 정보 수집도 아니다. 뉴스에 나온다는 것 자체가 누군가가 위키백과 기사의 주제가 되어야 한다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다. 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 단 하나의 사건의 맥락에서만 그 사람을 취재하고, 그 사람이 그렇지 않으면 남아 있고, 그 사람이 저명인 개인으로 남을 것 같으면, 우리는 일반적으로 그들에 관한 기사가 있는 것을 피해야 한다. 이러한 경우 전기의 경우 사건에 과도한 가중치를 부여할 수 있으며 중립적인 관점과 상충할 수 있다. 이런 경우에는 보통 정보를 병합하여 당사자의 이름을 이벤트 기사로 리디렉션하는 것이 좋다.
만약 이 사건이 유의미하고 그 안에서 개인의 역할이 실질적이고 문서화 되어 있다면, 1981년 로널드 레이건 대통령을 저격했던 존 힝클리 주니어의 경우와 같이 별도의 전기가 적절할 수 있다.사건이나 개인의 중요성은 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에서 커버리지가 얼마나 지속되는가에 의해 표시된다.[5] 또한 위키백과 같은 일부 주제별 공신력 지침은 다음과 같다.공신력(스포츠)은 주로 한 이벤트에 대해 알려진 특정 개인의 공신력을 뒷받침할 수 있는 기준을 제공한다.
사건에 과도한 가중치를 부여하고 중립적인 관점과 충돌한다.뉴트랄 어구는 원작 편집자나 듀얼러스 어느 한쪽에서 반복해서 사용하지 않는다.익명의 사용자가 올린 게시물에는 공신력이 없다.
이름[77]의 개인 정보:주로 단일 사건의 관점에서 논의되는 개인을 식별할 때는 주의를 기울여야 한다. 특정 법정 사건이나 직업과 같이 개인 개인의 이름이 널리 보급되지 않았거나 의도적으로 은닉된 경우, 특히 그렇게 하는 것이 문맥의 큰 손실을 초래하지 않을 때는 생략하는 것을 선호하는 경우가 많다. 이름을 포함시킬지 여부를 결정할 때, 학술지나 공인된 전문가들의 연구와 같이 뉴스 매체를 제외한 2차 출처에서의 출판은 뉴스 기사에 나오는 이름의 짧은 등장보다 더 큰 비중을 두어야 한다. 기사의 주제에 직접 관여하지 않는 개인 생활자의 이름을 포함시키는 것이 유의미한 가치를 더하는지를 고려해보자. 사생활에 찬성하는 가정은 기사의 주제와 그 밖의 느슨한 관계, 그 밖의 저명인사들에 대한 가정은 강하다.
이 사람과 그가 고발한 사람들은 널리 유포되지 않았고 사실 몇몇은 의도적으로 은폐되었다. 이 대화 페이지에서 원래 한 다음 반복한 것처럼 기사에 이러한 이름을 추가하는 것은 아무런 가치도 없다.
BLP가 비문서 공간[78]을 적용하거나 적용하지 않는 경우:공급되지 않았거나 공급되지 않았으며 콘텐츠 선택과 관련이 없는 살아있는 사람에 대한 논쟁적인 자료는 적절히 제거, 삭제 또는 지나친 관점을 가져야 한다. 살아 있는 사람에 대해 무언가를 발표해야 하는지에 대한 조언을 구할 때, 너무 많은 정보를 토크 페이지에 올리지 않도록 주의해서 문의가 엉망이 되도록 해야 한다. 문제가 있는 영상에도 같은 원리가 적용된다. 이미 논의된 의문스러운 주장은 이전 논의에 참고하여 제거할 수 있다.
BLP 정책은 사용자와 사용자 대화 페이지에도 적용된다. 단 하나의 예외는 사용자들이 자신의 사용자 공간에서 자신에 대해 원하는 주장을 할 수 있다는 것이다. 즉, 가장에 종사하지 않는 한, 그리고 위키피디아가 그렇지 않은 경우, 미성년자들은 자신의 사용자 페이지에 개인 정보를 식별하는 것을 주저하지만, 자세한 정보는 여기를 참조하십시오.[6] 프로젝트 공간에 있는 위키백과에 대한 게시글에는 이 규정이 적용되지만, 커뮤니티에 의한 행정적 문제 처리를 허용하는 여유도 있지만, 명예훼손 수준으로 올라가거나 인신공격 금지 위반에 해당하는 경우에는 관리자가 해당 자료를 삭제할 수 있다.
법조인 및 단체[79]:이 정책은 일반적으로 다른 컨텐츠 정책에 따라 작성되어야 하지만, 법적 당사자로 간주되는 기업, 기업 또는 기타 법인에 대한 편집에는 적용되지 않는다. BLP 정책이 그룹에 대한 편집에 적용되는 범위는 복잡하며 사례별로 판단해야 한다. 소그룹이나 조직에 관한 유해한 진술은 더 큰 집단에 관한 유사한 진술보다 BLP 문제에 더 가깝다; 집단이 매우 작을 때 집단을 구성하는 개인과 집단을 구별하는 것은 불가능할 수 있다. 의심스러울 때는 반드시 고품질 소스를 사용하고 있는지 확인한다. --Amadcientist (대화) 08:16, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 오, 이런, 1초 동안 구글을 검색하면 그 변호사에게 연락할 수 있는 전문 페이지가 몇 장이나 나온다.만약 그가 말하는 것이 의심된다면, 누군가가 그에게 이메일을 보내거나 OTRS에 신원을 확인하기 위해 그에게 물어 볼 수 있다.응, 물리는 문제가 있어.그는 비록 그가 현재 전형적인 새로운 실수를 저지르고 있다 하더라도, 기꺼이 여기에 기여하고 싶은 그의 의지에 감사해야 하고, 그가 필요로 하는 어떤 도움도 받아야 한다.우리 모두는 시작할 때 그런 실수를 저질렀다. 71.141.89.4 (대화) 09:18, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 물어뜯는 문제?만약 내가 한 단 하나의 행동이 그의 의제를 홍보하기 위해 그의 이름을 사용했고 그를 방해하지 못하게 만든 스팸 메시지를 사용했다면, 나는 내가 Dualus와 그 레드 링크 편집자 둘 다 어떤 종류의 블록에 가입했을 것이라고 거의 확신한다.지금 나는 Dualus가 같은 방식으로 위키백과 정책에 반대하는 토크 페이지를 반복적으로 스팸 발송한 것에 대해 같은 방어막을 얻지 못한 정확한 이유에 대해 더 걱정된다.나는 스파르타즈가 이것이 BLP 이슈와 위반이 아니라고 느끼는 정확한 이유 또한 걱정된다.그는 나에게 나의 모든 정확하고 구체적인 관심사를 게시하도록 시켰고 그리고 나서 Dualus가 토크 페이지 토론에서 했던 것과 같은 방식으로 그것들을 단 한 개의 게시물로 날려버렸다.나는 그의 토크 페이지에 가서 문제의 편집자를 위해 이 관리자가 손을 잡고 있는 것을 인지한다.그렇게 한 편집자를 안내하고 나서 다른 편집자에게 정확한 정보를 요구하는 것은 내 쪽의 인식 문제인 것 같아서 그에게 (스파르타즈) 의심을 살 수 밖에 없다.나는 그가 나에게 그와 같은 예의를 베풀어 줬으면 좋겠다.나는 그 기사의 토크 페이지에 글을 올리면서 그 관리자의 지시를 따랐다.나는 레드 링크 편집기에서 다른 관리자에게 위협을 전달했고, 나는 또한 Dualus가 한 편집자를 그에게 일하게 하려고 시도하는 것처럼 보이는 다른 편집자의 요청하지 않은 이메일도 포함시켰다.나는 이미 내게 전화번호가 남아있어, 그 편집자로 추정되는 위키피디아에 대한 법적 위협으로 말이야.나는 위키미디어 재단이 그것을 사용할 것을 제안한다.OTRS 그 남자 거기서부터.그는 스팸메일로 개인들을 비난해왔다.또 뭐가 필요한데?듀얼루스는 편집자의 공개 위키 허락 없이 이 편집자의 이러한 비난을 되풀이한다.아무것도 증명할 수 없다는 걸 깨달았어그러나 그것은 그가 다른 사람들에 대해 한 어떤 고발보다도 듀얼러스에 불리한 증거다.--아마디스트 (대화) 10:04, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 스파르타즈, 미안하지만, 내가 왜 BLP 문제라고 생각하는지 이유를 말해주라고 했잖아.이제 당신이 왜 아니라고 생각하는지 똑같이 구체적인 이유를 말해줘.고마워.--Amadcientist (대화) 10:22, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 물어뜯는 문제?만약 내가 한 단 하나의 행동이 그의 의제를 홍보하기 위해 그의 이름을 사용했고 그를 방해하지 못하게 만든 스팸 메시지를 사용했다면, 나는 내가 Dualus와 그 레드 링크 편집자 둘 다 어떤 종류의 블록에 가입했을 것이라고 거의 확신한다.지금 나는 Dualus가 같은 방식으로 위키백과 정책에 반대하는 토크 페이지를 반복적으로 스팸 발송한 것에 대해 같은 방어막을 얻지 못한 정확한 이유에 대해 더 걱정된다.나는 스파르타즈가 이것이 BLP 이슈와 위반이 아니라고 느끼는 정확한 이유 또한 걱정된다.그는 나에게 나의 모든 정확하고 구체적인 관심사를 게시하도록 시켰고 그리고 나서 Dualus가 토크 페이지 토론에서 했던 것과 같은 방식으로 그것들을 단 한 개의 게시물로 날려버렸다.나는 그의 토크 페이지에 가서 문제의 편집자를 위해 이 관리자가 손을 잡고 있는 것을 인지한다.그렇게 한 편집자를 안내하고 나서 다른 편집자에게 정확한 정보를 요구하는 것은 내 쪽의 인식 문제인 것 같아서 그에게 (스파르타즈) 의심을 살 수 밖에 없다.나는 그가 나에게 그와 같은 예의를 베풀어 줬으면 좋겠다.나는 그 기사의 토크 페이지에 글을 올리면서 그 관리자의 지시를 따랐다.나는 레드 링크 편집기에서 다른 관리자에게 위협을 전달했고, 나는 또한 Dualus가 한 편집자를 그에게 일하게 하려고 시도하는 것처럼 보이는 다른 편집자의 요청하지 않은 이메일도 포함시켰다.나는 이미 내게 전화번호가 남아있어, 그 편집자로 추정되는 위키피디아에 대한 법적 위협으로 말이야.나는 위키미디어 재단이 그것을 사용할 것을 제안한다.OTRS 그 남자 거기서부터.그는 스팸메일로 개인들을 비난해왔다.또 뭐가 필요한데?듀얼루스는 편집자의 공개 위키 허락 없이 이 편집자의 이러한 비난을 되풀이한다.아무것도 증명할 수 없다는 걸 깨달았어그러나 그것은 그가 다른 사람들에 대해 한 어떤 고발보다도 듀얼러스에 불리한 증거다.--아마디스트 (대화) 10:04, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
카이첸추
누군가 카이 천추의 편집 이력을 잠깐 살펴본 다음 삭제해 줄 수 있을까?날조된 페이지지만, 작업 중인 신규 편집자의 수가 양말 인형극을 나타낼 수도 있다. -- Scjesy (토크) 14:24, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 그 양말 안에 고기가 들어 있을 가능성이 크지만, 그럼에도 불구하고 이것은 좋은 블록이었다.전형적인 지루한 학교생활의 허튼소리.추가된 자동 잠금 장치는 이것을 끝내야 한다.Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 14:43, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 또 하나의 Kaichen Chiu Nil Einne (대화) 09:39, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
펨버리 병원
전혀 문제가 되지 않는다.
Pembury 병원(대화 기록 편집 보호 로그 보기 보기 링크 삭제)
잘은 모르겠지만, 이번 일은 내가 망친 것 같아.펨버리 병원 기사는 원래 그 제목에 있었다.또 다른 편집자는 대담하게 그것을 The Tunbridge Wells Hospital(더 툰브리지 웰스 병원)으로 옮겼다.나는 원래 타이틀을 따고 Tunbridge Wells 병원을 Pembury Hospital로 옮겼다(WP:공통 이름).그러나 그렇게 함으로써 나는 원문의 편집 이력을 대부분 잃어버린 것으로 보인다.다른 관리자가 이 문제를 살펴보고 정리해야 할 사항이 있는지 확인해 주시겠습니까?엉망진창에 대해 사과한다.Mjroot (대화) 08:45, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 별일 없다.펨버리 병원 페이지에서는 모든 역사를 볼 수 있고, TWH 페이지에서는 이동만 볼 수 있다.나는 당신의 캐시를 삭제하면 페이지가 당신에게 전체 내역을 표시하도록 강요할 것이라고 의심한다 (보통 내가 같은 이슈가 있을 때 나에게 효과가 있다...) BencherliteTalk 08:52, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
편집 내용을 저장하려고 할 때...
깃발이 펄럭이며...라고 말했다."여보세요!당신이 최근에 베벌리힐스의 진짜 주부들을 편집한 전쟁 때문에, 여기 위키피디아에 있는 관리자 애런 무잘스키가 당신의 계정에 다시 한번 기회를 주도록 플래그를 달았다.아래 편집 내용은 저장되지 않았지만 "페이지 저장" 단추를 다시 사용할 경우 저장되며, 편집 내용이 위키백과 정책에 반할 수 있다고 생각될 경우, 자신의 행동을 다시 생각해 보십시오.위키피디아는 항상 건설적인 기여를 환영하지만, 만약 당신이 정책을 위반한다면 우리는 편집에 대한 당신의 접근을 차단해야 한다.여기를 클릭하여 편집 내용을 저장하지 않고 이 페이지에서 물러나십시오.고마워, 애런 무살스키 (토크) 18:55, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)"[
안심해, 난 비벌리 힐즈의 리얼 주부들에서는 편집 전쟁이 없어...그리고 도대체 어떻게 "인형의 달인"이라는 사용자 이름을 가진 사람이 있는가? 그리고 어떻게 누군가가 편집을 할 때 그런 메시지를 삽입할 수 있는가?제발 누가 좀 알아봐줘...
카를로스수아레즈46 (대화) 19:06, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 나는 오직 깊은 사과만을 할 수 있다.테스트에 사용하던 편집 필터의 유지관리가 엉망이 되었고, regex를 끝내기 전에 저장하게 되었다.나는 이것을 들었고 그것이 영향을 받은 누구에게도 매우 미안하다. m.o.p 19:16, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
- 오, 네가 한 짓을 봐, 심지어 봇들도 지금 행복하지 않아;;)허리케인 팬25 19:21, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
Brag-ban MoP에 대한 제안
나는 사용자측의 자랑을 6개월 금지할 것을 제안한다.꼭두각시의 주인님.그들은 위키피디아를 어겼다고 주장하는데, 이것은 일반 행정가로는 되지 않는 엄청난 규모다. 내가 아는 한, 그러한 주장은 관료들에 의해서만 이루어질 수 있다.MoP는 만약 그들이 6개월 동안 braggadocio 없이 살아남거나 그 기간 동안 메인 페이지를 삭제한다면 자랑으로 되돌아갈 수도 있다.중간적인 자랑은 처음 50명의 편집자들에 의해 금지 기간이 길어지고 MoPs 토크 페이지에 있는 무료 욕설로 이어질 것이다.드레이미스 (토크) 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC) 19:32[
- 나는 사람들이 이 상황을 이해하고 경시해 준 것에 대해 감사하고 싶다. 안심해라. 다시는 이런 일이 일어나지 않을 것이다.에버. m.o.p 19:42, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
MOP를 위한 두 가지 선물:
제기랄! 이 일을 너무 심각하게 받아들이지 마라.누군가 네가 바보 같은 짓을 했다는 걸 알려주고 싶어 해. |
(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:49, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 좋아...나는 지금 유머감각을 느끼고 있어...ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 59, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
콜리스 포터 헌팅턴 생년월일 익명의 반전
익명의 사용자는 콜리스 포터 헌팅턴 기사에 실린 생년월일을 여러 번 되돌려서, 참조자가 지지한 날짜를 대체하였고, 기사의 토크 페이지에서 이전에 도달한 날짜인 [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86]
익명의 사용자는 요약 편집에서 주제에 대해 토론하거나 타협할 의사가 없음을 여러 대화 페이지 중 하나에 명시했다.또 어떻게 해야 할지 모르겠어.누가 이것 좀 봐줄래? -- 페밀리건 (대화) 02:42, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[하라
- 여기에 기본적인 정보를 더하기 위해서, 나는 2007년에 이 주제에 대한 합의에 도달하기 위한 논의의 일부였다(기사의 토크 페이지 참조).나는 이번 주에 다시 한번 봐 달라는 요청을 받았다.나는 아직 더 철저한 조사를 할 기회를 갖지 못했다. 새로운 편집이 논쟁의 날짜를 뒷받침할 만큼 충분히 강력한 참고자료를 추가하는 것으로 보이지 않기 때문에 나의 첫 번째 생각은 원래의 합의를 지키는 것이다.또한, 당초 합의의 일부는 두 가지 모두를 언급하는 기사에 두 날짜를 모두 표시하는 것이었고, 그 이후 그 합의의 일부는 편집자들에 의해 무시된 것으로 보인다.슬램보 (Speak) 04:07, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 헌팅턴 씨의 생일에는 정말 날짜 문제나 문제가 없어야 한다.나는 콜리스 포터 헌팅턴에 관한 세린다 에반의 확실한 전기 한 권을 소유하고 있다.Va. Newport News, : Mariners' Museum; (1954) ASIN: B0056PIFGU)뿐만 아니라 그의 삶과 시대에 관한 몇 권의 다른 책들도 있다.이러한 언급 중 생년월일에 문제가 있는 것은 하나도 없으며, (로 일관되게 제시되어 있다.1821년 10월 22일.내가 보기에 문제는 누군가가 묘비와 묘비를 보여주는 웹사이트를 인용하면서 시작된 것 같다.하지만 문제의 날짜는 4월 날짜의 출처로 기재된 웹사이트에서 찾을 수 없다.추가적으로, 편집 요약에서 "이것이 나의 귀찮은 얼굴처럼 보이나?"를 포함한 이러한 반복적인 편집의 행동은, 관련 수정주의자의 작품이라기 보다는 오히려 나를 괴롭히는 것 같다.나는 익명의 편집자와 대화를 열려고 했지만 소용이 없었다.엘린 벨트즈 (대화) 09:10, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
감사합니다. -- Pemillgan (대화) 03:58, 2011년 11월 8일 (UTC)[
당신이 고통의 소인가?/Otto4711
사용자는 무기한으로 금지되었다(참조:위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive724#사용자:Otto4711 - WP:ban 제안) 그러나 여전히 IP에 따라 편집되고 템플릿 파괴:제임스 고래.우리 제발 그만하면 안 될까?--TheMovieBuff (대화) 16:28, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[하라
- 보호됨.Elockid 16:41, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
스와일, 크라우치의 커뮤니티 금지 제안
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.후속 코멘트는 새로운 섹션으로 작성되어야 한다. 도달한 결론의 요약은 다음과 같다.
- 이 제안은 (사실상) 강력한 지지를 받고 있기 때문에, 나는 "실행된" 것으로 종결할 것이다.사용자:크라우치, 스웨일은 지역사회에 의해 공식적으로 금지된다.28바이트 (대화)20:20, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
이 사용자는 거대한 양말공예사인데, 가장 최근의 행동에 따르면, 그만둘 의사가 전혀 없다.금지된 사용자인 시바비를 사칭하기도 한다.그러므로 나는 전면 금지를 제안한다.Calabe1992 (대화) 01:58, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그것이 무슨 도움이 되든지 지지하라.Rklawton (대화) 02:00, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지지 – 그는 적어도 내 책에서 금지되어 있다; 나는 이미 그의 모든 편집본을 되돌리고 그의 모든 창작물을 삭제해왔는데, 주로 그가 할 수 있다는 것을 알고 있기 때문이다.–MuZemike 02:28, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.이것이 많은 차이를 만들지는 의심스럽지만 그들은 분명히 금지되어야 마땅하다.처음에 이 일에 관여했다가 박사 논문을 쓰느라 정신이 팔려서 얼마나 안 좋은지 깨닫지 못했다.Dpmuk (대화) 03:06, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지원, 그의 업무 중단은 메인 스페이스에만 국한되지 않는다. 예를 들어, 이 무의미한 움직임 요청이다.아이는 자신의 삶에 대해 더 나은 무언가를 찾을 필요가 있다.북빛의 칼날 (話して下い) 03:47, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.우리는 정말로 공식적인 금지 절차가 필요하지는 않지만, 문제아에게 공식적으로 "안녕"이라고 말하는 것이 좋은 방법이기 때문에, 우리는 그것을 하는 것이 더 좋다."안녕"이라고 말해야겠어나이튼드 (대화) 06:12, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지원 반 총장은 분명하지만 향후 혼란을 제거하기 위해 필요하다.조누니크 (대화) 07:01, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 내 책에도 지원 금지되어 있지만, 공식적으로 가치가 있는 것은...WilliamH (대화) 07:52, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- WP의 총체적 무능과 자유분방한 서비스 지원:IDHT, 혼란, 최악, 만연한 양말 난무. -Blackmane (대화) 09:27, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- '지원 - 당연하지. - 버펠슨 AFB 16 16:26, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[하라
- 분명히 비파괴적인 지원, 그들은 금지되어야 마땅하다.허리케인 팬25 토크 16:28, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 지지 나는 실제로 그가 몇 개의 기사를 만들어냈기 때문에 이것을 보는 것에 실망감을 느낀다; 그러나 나는 이 새로운 유형의 행동이 변하지 않을 것이라고 추측한다, 그래서 나는 지지할 것이다.Minima ( (대화)20:15, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그를 금지하지 않을 이유가 거의 없다.OIFA (대화) 03:45, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지지; 나는 그것이 이런 식으로 진행되어야 했다는 것에 실망한다. 그러나 나는 이 시점에서 공동체 금지가 위키피디아에 순이익을 가져다 준다고 생각한다.멘토링&c가 가능할지 모르는 부분을 훨씬 뛰어넘었다.보브레이너 (토크) 15:48, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.그들이 아직 주위에 있다는 것을 깨닫지 못했고, 나는 그들이 이미 금지되어 있다고 생각했다.그것이 실제로 큰 차이를 만들 것이라는 것은 아니다.폴퀀트 (대화) 15:54, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 지지하다.400개 이상의 양말을 가지고, 이 사용자는 분명히 금지되어야 한다.위키퍼피즈! (bark) 20:57, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[하라
사용자 대화:미스터리듬
여러분 안녕하십니까?
10월 23일 사용자 대화:MrRhythm은 영국의 인포박스에서 GDP 명목과 PPP 순위를 바꾸기 시작했다.6위와 7위는 세계은행, IMF, CIA 팩트북에서 각각 소싱된 GDP별 국가 목록(명목)과 GDP별 국가 목록(PPP)에서 연결된다.Rhythm씨는 2011년 영국 인구조사에 대한 자신의 분석에 기초하여 값을 바꾸고 있다.그러나 이렇게 하는 것은 (기사의 다른 곳에서 이전의 가치들이 언급되기 때문에) 기사 내에서의 갈등과 두 개의 GDP 목록 자체와의 갈등을 모두 유발하는데, 같은 목록에 있는 항목들은 다른 기준에 따라 비교되고 있기 때문이다.I 및 사용자 모두:랑군11은 이후 이틀 동안 리듬 씨의 편집 내용을 되돌렸다. 나는 기사 토크 페이지에 리듬 씨를 초대하여 변경 사항을 논의하였다.
MrRhythm은 어떤 식으로도 반응하지 않았고, 계속해서 그의 독창적인 연구를 infobox에 삽입했다.그리고 나서 나는 분쟁 해결 안내 게시판에 대한 토론을 열었고, 다시 미스터리듬을 참여하도록 초대했다.그도 거기에 참여하지는 않았지만, 며칠 동안 기사에 자신의 정보를 삽입하는 것도 그만뒀기 때문에 어쩌면 그 메시지를 전달받았을지도 모른다는 생각이 들었다.
DRN 토론에서 사용자:ItsZippy는 주요 이슈는 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니라 파괴적인 편집이었기 때문에 내가 이 이슈를 여기로 가져올 것을 추천했다.나는 이것을 미스터리듬에게 알렸다.
오늘 밤, 미스터리듬은 다시 논의도 없이 자신의 독창적인 연구를 삽입했으므로, 이제 이것을 여기에 가져올 때가 된 것 같다.영국 기사 이외의 다른 기고문들을 살펴본 적은 없지만, 그의 기고문 목록을 보면 그는 토크 페이지나 편집 요약을 사용한 적이 없는 것 같다.
나는 관리자가 적절한 조치를 취하기를 바란다.나는 과거에 비언어적 편집자들의 관심을 끌기 위해 주어진 블록들을 본 적이 있다; 그것이 올바른 해결책인지는 모르겠지만, 나는 아이디어에 열려 있다.
나는 이 실을 게시한 후 즉시 미스터리듬에게 통지할 것이다.
고마워, 노섬브리아 SPREC 01:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- Rhythm씨가 알려주었다.노섬브리아 SPREC 01:12, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 리듬 씨에게 일주일 동안 그들의 의사소통 기술을 연구할 수 있는 기회를 주고 싶다.동의하는 차기 행정관은 막을 수 있다. 나는 더 이상 출연하지 않을 것이다.드레이미스 (대화) 04:24, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
내가 뭔가를 놓치고 있는 것일까, 아니면 10월 25일 경고 후 한 번의 편집에 대한 극단적인 과잉 반응일까?되돌리고 경고하는 것만으로는 충분하지 않은가?그리고 이 토크 페이지를 보면, 아직 아무도 그에게 편집 요약을 쓰라고 권하지 않았고, 특별히 그를 대화에 초대하지도 않았다. 그는 정말 새내기였다.디클라이언 (대화) 06:11, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그렇다. 내가 위에서 제공하는 다른 점들은 기사 토크 페이지와 DRN에서 그에게 참여하도록 요구하는 나의 요청과 연결되기 때문에 아무도 그를 초대하지 않았다는 명백한 증거다.그리고 내가 남긴 것을 포함하여 그의 토크 페이지에 편집 요약을 사용할 것을 요청하는 두 가지 예는 아무도 그에게 편집 요약을 사용할 것을 요구하지 않았다는 것을 증명한다.7월부터 편집하고 있는 불쌍한 신입.노섬브리아 SPREC 06:32, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 응, 민원 중에 초대장을 놓친 것 같던데.아직 과민반응이다.디클라이언 (대화) 07:18, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Rhythm씨에게 전쟁을 편집하지 말라고 마지막 경고를 했다.여러 번의 경고와 토론 초대에도 불구하고 사용자가 메인 스페이스 이외의 다른 곳에는 단 한 번의 편집도 하지 않았다는 것을 말하는 것 같다.노섬브리안, 당신이 대화의 문을 열기 위해 노력하고 있다는 것을 알지만, 당신 역시 여기서 전쟁을 편집하고 있으니 조심해서 진행해야 한다.관련 위키백과 주체에 통보하거나 RFC를 개설하는 등 내용에 대해 더 많은 의견을 구하는 것이 좋다.SpindingSpark 11:22, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 주목받는 SS, 나는 내가 가장자리에 가까워지고 있다는 것을 안다. 그래서 나는 DRN에 갔다가 마침내 여기에 온 것이다.Rhythm씨에게 충고하고 마지막으로 경고해줘서 고마워.노섬브리아 SPREC 14:56, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- Mr Rhythm은 방법이 있으며, 항상 특별히 효과적이지는 않다 :-) (토크→ BWilkins ←트랙) 15:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 아니면 그는 Neil Peart 팬일 수도 있다 - 11번 트랙을 보라.Ravensfire (토크) 16:28, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)
- Mr Rhythm은 방법이 있으며, 항상 특별히 효과적이지는 않다 :-) (토크→ BWilkins ←트랙) 15:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 주목받는 SS, 나는 내가 가장자리에 가까워지고 있다는 것을 안다. 그래서 나는 DRN에 갔다가 마침내 여기에 온 것이다.Rhythm씨에게 충고하고 마지막으로 경고해줘서 고마워.노섬브리아 SPREC 14:56, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Rhythm씨에게 전쟁을 편집하지 말라고 마지막 경고를 했다.여러 번의 경고와 토론 초대에도 불구하고 사용자가 메인 스페이스 이외의 다른 곳에는 단 한 번의 편집도 하지 않았다는 것을 말하는 것 같다.노섬브리안, 당신이 대화의 문을 열기 위해 노력하고 있다는 것을 알지만, 당신 역시 여기서 전쟁을 편집하고 있으니 조심해서 진행해야 한다.관련 위키백과 주체에 통보하거나 RFC를 개설하는 등 내용에 대해 더 많은 의견을 구하는 것이 좋다.SpindingSpark 11:22, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 응, 민원 중에 초대장을 놓친 것 같던데.아직 과민반응이다.디클라이언 (대화) 07:18, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- @Dicklyon 미안 만약 내 대답이 얄밉게 보였다면 미안해.나는 블록을 요청한 것이 아니라 단지 과거에 비슷한 상황에서 관리자들이 그들에게 주는 것을 본 적이 있다는 것을 언급했다.사용자가 대화 페이지에서 대화하도록 하는 것 외에 더 생각해 보면, 관리자가 아닌 사람이 블록을 짧게 할 수 있는 일은 많지 않을 것이다.어쨌든 사용자는 6월 이후 수 백 번의 편집이 있고, 독창적인 연구에 종사하며, 의사소통을 하지 않는다.느린 움직임일 수도 있지만, 그는 대부분의 경우 영국이 바뀌기 전, 그의 편집은 그의 토크 페이지에서 실제로 도전받지 않았고, 그것은 파괴적인 편집이며, 이것이 그것을 위한 정확한 장소인 것처럼 보인다.나는 블록이 마지막 수단이 되어야 하기 때문에 주어진 마지막 경고는 좋은 다음 단계라고 생각한다.노섬브리아 SPREC 19:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
내가 어떻게 고쳐야 할지 모르는 난장판
Saifula Abro(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 사용자 페이지를 Saifula Abro(이전의 버전 중 하나에서는 장난이나 장난으로 보인다)로 리디렉션하고 사용자 대화를 기사의 토크 페이지로 리디렉션했다.사용자는 기사 페이지를 비우려고 시도하고 있으며 쿼그마이어의 전체성을 인식하기 전에 내가 배치한 기사에서 CSD 태그를 제거했다.어떻게 진행해야 할지 모르겠다.행운을 빌어요.티데롤 06:56, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC) 나는 이 게시물이 어디에 착륙할지 전혀 모르기 때문에 사이풀라 아브로에게 이 게시물을 알리는 메시지를 남기지 않을 것이다.
- 사용자 공간으로 다시 옮겼어 어디서 왔는지 말이야.디클라이언 (대화) 07:05, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 하지만 나는 그의 사용자 대화 페이지를 뒤로 옮길 수 없다.디클라이언 (대화) 07:56, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 하지만 아직 정리 작업이 좀 남아 있는 것 같다.우리의 어린 친구 사이풀라 아브로는 또한 다음과 같다.
- 계정 이름의 폐쇄성에 대해 아직 완전히 확신하고 있지 않다면, 당신은 "카마리오" 계정의 편집 이력을 사이펠라 아브로 계정의 편집 이력과 비교하는 것만으로도 그 주장의 진실을 관찰할 수 있다.특히 각각의 첫 번째 편집본을 보십시오. 우리는 이 사람을 전에 분명히 본 적이 있다.
- 그리고 나도 마찬가지로 사용자 계정 Saifulah1012는 사용자 Saifulah Abro와 동일한 사람을 나타낸다고 주장한다.예를 들어, 이 버전의 Saifullah Abro 사용자 페이지와 이 버전의 Saifullah1012 사용자 페이지를 비교해 보십시오.그들은 거의 똑같다.
- 마지막으로 만약 그 구내에 도사리고 있는 떠돌이 체크업자가 있다면, 더 많은 양말을 발견하기 위해 가능한 시각으로 이러한 계정을 운영하는 것은 자비로운 일일 것이다.내가 이렇게 말하는데, 왜냐하면 내가 이 글을 쓰면서 내가 생각하기에 행동적 요인에 근거하여 또 다른 가능성 있는 양말을 발견했기 때문이다. 그러나 나는 그것에 대한 나의 확신이 약하다는 점을 고려할 때, 현재 계정 이름을 공개하고 싶지 않다.– OhioStandard (대화) 13:16, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 미안하지만, 나는 그 반응이 매우 역효과를 낸다는 것을 알고 있다. 그리고 너의 "건방진" 관찰은 그 설명들 중 하나와 완전히 무관하다.나는 입버릇이 좋지 않고 무례할 의도는 없지만, 이 게시판에 자주 참석하고 위의 증거를 실제로 보는 사람은 이 세 개의 계정이 같은 사람을 대표한다는 것을 의심하지 않을 것이다.그런 점을 감안할 때, 나는 이미 많은 문제를 일으킨 행동을 한 사람에게 세 가지 모두를 이용할 수 있도록 하는 합리적이고 허용 가능한 근거가 없다고 본다.당신은 왜 이 사람이 합법적인 대체 계좌로 자격이 없는 세 개의 계정에 접근하도록 허용되어야 한다고 생각하는가?
- 또한, 당신은 언젠가 그들이 스스로에게 주의를 환기시킬 때 이런 계정을 "쉽고 명백하다"고 말하지만, 내가 이전에 SPI에서 본 것에 따르면, 반드시 그렇지는 않다.만약 그 사람이 공유 학교 컴퓨터를 사용한다면, 예를 들어, 학교에서 한 대와 집에서 다른 계정을 사용한다면, 그리고 이 계정들 중 한 두 대만이 미래에 동시에 문제를 일으킨다면, 여러분은 세 가지 모두를 알고 있을 것이라고 확신하십니까?만약 그렇지 않다면, 왜 다른 누군가가 시간을 들여 두 번째 시간 동안 그들 사이의 관계를 추적해야 하는가? 이 사람이 동일 인물이라는 것이 명백한데?적어도 한 사람이 이런 식으로 세 개의 계정을 유지하도록 허용하면, 비록 계정이 동시에 사용되지 않더라도, 예를 들어, 같은 AfD에서 투표한다.– OhioStandard (대화) 15:37, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- Ohiostandard, 계정이 오래된 경우, 기술적 일치 여부를 결정하는 데 사용할 수 있는 데이터가 없다는 것을 의미한다. (체크유저는 데이터를 너무 오래 보관한다.)그것은 행동 일치와는 관계가 없다.—제레미 v^_^vComponents:V S M 17:01, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 어, 나는 이 세 개의 계정이 동일한 사람인지 의심스럽다는 말을 하지 않았고, 그들이 여러 개의 계정을 남용하도록 허용해야 한다는 말을 하지 않았다.내가 말한 것은 전적으로 관련이 있다: 체크 유저가 검색한 서버 로그는 무한정 저장되지 않기 때문에 Saifulah1012를 확인하면 아무것도 검색되지 않는다.나는 이 계정들이 같은 사람의 것이고 차단되어야 한다는 것에 전적으로 동의한다.연결될 수 있다고 생각되는 다른 계정에 대해 좀 더 신중하고 싶다면, 언제든지 나에게 이메일을 보내라. 하지만 이 세 가지뿐이고 다른 것은 없다는 나의 관점에서, 이미 명백하거나) 설정 불가능한 계정 사이의 기술적 연결을 조사할 이유가 없다.기술적 데이터는 바뀔 수 있지만, 문제가 있는 행동은 항상 문제가 있다.WilliamH (대화) 17:09, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- Ohiostandard, 계정이 오래된 경우, 기술적 일치 여부를 결정하는 데 사용할 수 있는 데이터가 없다는 것을 의미한다. (체크유저는 데이터를 너무 오래 보관한다.)그것은 행동 일치와는 관계가 없다.—제레미 v^_^vComponents:V S M 17:01, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 또한, 당신은 언젠가 그들이 스스로에게 주의를 환기시킬 때 이런 계정을 "쉽고 명백하다"고 말하지만, 내가 이전에 SPI에서 본 것에 따르면, 반드시 그렇지는 않다.만약 그 사람이 공유 학교 컴퓨터를 사용한다면, 예를 들어, 학교에서 한 대와 집에서 다른 계정을 사용한다면, 그리고 이 계정들 중 한 두 대만이 미래에 동시에 문제를 일으킨다면, 여러분은 세 가지 모두를 알고 있을 것이라고 확신하십니까?만약 그렇지 않다면, 왜 다른 누군가가 시간을 들여 두 번째 시간 동안 그들 사이의 관계를 추적해야 하는가? 이 사람이 동일 인물이라는 것이 명백한데?적어도 한 사람이 이런 식으로 세 개의 계정을 유지하도록 허용하면, 비록 계정이 동시에 사용되지 않더라도, 예를 들어, 같은 AfD에서 투표한다.– OhioStandard (대화) 15:37, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 잘했어, 윌리엄 H. 그리고 해명해줘서 고마워. 내가 너의 글을 오해해서 미안해.그렇다, 나는 문맥에서 "stale"이 무슨 뜻인지 알고 있었다. btw. 하지만 오래되지 않은 두 계정의 로그에 의지하면 내가 잘못 기소될 수 있는 드라마를 감수하지 않고도 잠재적으로 관련이 있다고 생각하고 있던 다른 계정들이 나타날 수도 있다고 생각했다.하지만 어쨌든, 이메일에 대한 당신의 제안은 더 나은 대안이다. 제공해주셔서 감사하다.나는 이제 그 제안에 대해 너를 설득했다.– OhioStandard (대화) 19:10, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
사용자 공간의 자체 프로모션
안녕. 이건 지면을 뒤흔드는 문제는 아니지만, 이 두 개의 사용자 공간 페이지를 어떻게 해야 하는지 누군가 알아봐 줄 수 있어?이들은 다른 사용자 계정에 속하지만 다른 사용자는 아닌 것으로 보이며, 첫 번째 계정(?)은 이름에 슬래시를 삽입하여 만든 것으로 나타난다.두 계정 중 어느 쪽도 즉시 알리지 않을 겁니다. 이 시점에서 어떤 페이지도 만들 수 없기 때문에 문제가 복잡해질 겁니다. – 오하이오 스탠다드(토크) 16:34, 2011년 11월 (UTC)[응답
- 둘 다 같은 사용자야.첫번째는 하위 페이지다.그의 토크 페이지를 읽으면서 나는 그가 다른 사람들이 자신의 웹사이트에 사진을 제출하는 수단으로 위키피디아를 이용하려는 것이 아닌가 하는 생각이 든다. --Ron Ritzman (토크) 17:15, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 내가 만든 포스트 중 가장 똑똑한 포스트는 아니었어, 론. "이름에 슬래시를 박아 만든 거야." 정말이지!건배, – OhioStandard (토크) 19:21, 2011년 11월 5일(UTC)
사용자:174.51.189.153
익명 편집자 174.51.189.153 (토크 · 기여)는 뉴월드 번역에서 문맥에서 한 출처를 취하여 토크에서 제공되는 다른 출처를 무시하는 편집을 계속한다.편집자는 계속 되돌아가며, 토크나 사용자 토크에서 토론하는 것을 거부한다.사용자가 이전에 차단한 경우:더그웰러는 이를 위해 24시간 동안 더그웰러를 기다렸지만, 계속 유지한다.I 및 사용자:블랙캡은 둘 다 Talk에서 편집자를 참여시키려 했다.
편집자의 끈질김과 토론 거부로 편집자의 영구차단을 요청한다.--제프로77 (대화) 08:13, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 익명의 편집자는 여러 차례 이 문제를 논의하라는 요청을 받았지만 그 요청을 무시했다.그 혹은 그녀는 협업에 관심이 없고 경고를 무시했다는 이유로 차단되었음에도 불구하고 같은 행동으로 돌아왔다.더 긴 블록이나 영구 블록은 타당해 보인다.블랙캡 (대화) 09:08, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 기사는 왜 반보호가 안 되는가?VanIsaac 10WScontribs:14, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
백업을 거부하는 관리자가 프로세스 외 카테고리 삭제
- 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.후속 코멘트는 새로운 섹션으로 작성되어야 한다. 도달한 결론의 요약은 다음과 같다.
- 카테고리 복원 및 CfD로 이동 --Jayron32 00:04, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)[
여기, 사용자:Stemonitis, 차라리 WP의 경계에 대해 자부심을 갖는 관리자:IAR은 두 개의 카테고리를 삭제했으며, 네 명의 편집자의 불만에도 불구하고 복원 및 CFD에 가져가기를 거부했으며, 그가 옳다고 주장하는 것 외에 다른 어떤 것도 하지 않았다.나는 그 문제에 대해 전혀 견해를 갖고 있지 않지만, 무엇보다도 삭제되는 부분에 대한 과정이 따라야 한다.존보드 (대화) 22:35, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 정당한 불평이 있을 수도 있고 없을 수도 있지만, 이것은 그것을 제기하는 잘못된 게시판이다.WP로 이동:DRV. --Jayron32 23:33, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로 삭제 자체는 DRV에서 논란이 되겠지만, 여기서 중요한 질문은 스테모니티스가 이러한 논란이 많은 삭제를 수행함으로써 그의 도구를 남용했는가 아닌가 하는 것이다.내가 틀렸다면 고쳐줘, 하지만 도구 남용은 여기서 논의되고 있는 것 아니야?~~로타 폰 리치토펜 (대화) 23:51, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 우리 관리자들은 도구뭉치라고 들었는데, 우리는 항상 욕을 먹는다던데… :-) (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 00:02, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 도움이 된다면, 나는 그의 연설 페이지를 내 감시 목록에 남긴 다소 오래된 행동을 참고할 것이다.그것은 관리 도구가 필요하지는 않았지만, 나는 이런 태도를 고수하는 사람이 관리인이 되어서는 안 된다고 생각한다.정책과 과정을 과시하는 것도 한 가지지만, 주목할 만한 것은 그가 두 경우 모두 오랜 토론 내내 자신의 행동에 조금이라도 문제가 있다고 보는 것을 거부하는 방식이다.User_talk:줄기세포염/아카이브34#Ancient_Roman_Fattery\Part 1 그리고 내가 돌아온 후 파트 2.그 사람하고 얘기 좀 할 수 없어?존보드 (대화) 00:19, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 우리 관리자들은 도구뭉치라고 들었는데, 우리는 항상 욕을 먹는다던데… :-) (토크→ BWilkins ←track) 00:02, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 일반적으로 삭제 자체는 DRV에서 논란이 되겠지만, 여기서 중요한 질문은 스테모니티스가 이러한 논란이 많은 삭제를 수행함으로써 그의 도구를 남용했는가 아닌가 하는 것이다.내가 틀렸다면 고쳐줘, 하지만 도구 남용은 여기서 논의되고 있는 것 아니야?~~로타 폰 리치토펜 (대화) 23:51, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- WP:RFC/U (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 00:44, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 독단적인 세자를 어떻게 분류해야 하는지에 상관없이, 그것이 어떻게 이루어졌는지의 과정이 완전히 틀렸다는 사실을 바꾸지는 않는다.기사에서 고양이를 빼고 카테고리를 삭제하는 줄기세포염의 행동은 정상적인 편집이라고 어느 정도 믿을 수 있는 것이다.그러나 다른 사용자가 삭제에 동의하지 않는 순간은 복원해서 CfD로 가져갔어야 하는 순간이었다.그 논의에서 그의 "모든 규칙 무시"에 대한 주장은 완전히 부정확하고 IAR 정책에 대한 조롱으로, IAR 정책의 용도와 그것이 어떻게 사용되어야 하는지를 약화시킨다.이는 관리자가 자신의 관리 툴을 활용하는 조치에 대해 받아들일 수 없는 입장이다.실버스렌C 07:15, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 내 자신의 토크 페이지에서 더 자세한 답변을 했다.구체적으로 언급된 두 가지 카테고리가 복원되어 현재 CfD에 있다. --Stemonitis (대화) 08:06, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
Ramanatruth는 Advaita Vedanta 페이지를 다시 완전히 파괴했다.
Ramanatruth는 Advaita Vedanta 페이지를 완전히 파괴했다.이 문제는 어제 논의되었다. (대화) 17:55, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이제 사용자 대화에서 이들에 대한 통지를 받았다.라마나트루트. -- -- 에바야베 - 복지국 ‖ 17:50, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이름에 "진실"이 있는 사용자 이름은 대개 출구로 향한다.←베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→ 17:55, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 페이지에 "반미 보호" 잠금 중 하나를 설치하는 것은 어떨까?라마나트루트의 모든 이상한 광경은 거의 재미있어.기원전 3000년에 쓰여진 Bhagavad Gita는 거의 나를 웃기면서 오렌지 주스를 뱉게 만들었다. 72.92.11.179 (토크) 18:22, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 편집자의 사용자 이름에 "진실"이 있는 편집자만 차단하지 않는 특별한 이유가 있는가?북빛의 칼날 (話して下い) 18:28, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이름에 "진실"이 있는 사용자 이름은 대개 출구로 향한다.←베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→ 17:55, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
따라서 신고 이용자는 공공 기물 파손의 정의가 무엇인지 다시 한 번 복습할 필요가 있다.이것은 내용상의 논쟁이다.왜 토크 페이지에는 토론이 없는가?사용자와 직접 상의하지 않고 ANI로 바로 가는 이유는?4일 동안 완전히 보호된 페이지를 통해 두 분 모두 잘못된 방법이 아닌 올바른 방식으로 이 문제를 처리할 수 있는 기회를 제공하십시오.비블브록스 (대화) 19:24, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
From Ramana Truth
컨텐츠 분쟁이 반달리즘이 아님
나는 몇 년 동안 Advaita Vendanta를 배우고 연습했다.만약 당신이 나의 편집내용에 이의를 제기한다면 토론합시다.왜 너희들이 나를 막아야 해.나는 위키피디아를 처음 접하지만 내 모든 내용을 검증하기 위해 참고자료를 추가할 것이다.나는 위키피디아에서 Advaita Vedanta가 제대로 표현되도록 하고 싶다.
"브라만이 전부"라는 개념인 아드바타 철학은 힌두교 성서 바하바드 기타에서 부처의 탄생을 앞서는 것으로 언급되어 있다.
Advaita Vedanta에 대한 고대 문헌
http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/bookstallsales/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=128_129
Advaita Vedanta는 힌두교의 중심 교리다.아디 산카라와 라마나 마하르시는 인도에서 불교가 전파되던 시기에 인도 인구를 힌두교로 돌아오게 하기 위해 아다이타 철학을 명시적으로 취함으로써 힌두교의 르네상스를 이끌었다.
추천된 독서란이나 아드바이타 베단타의 본문에서 라마나 마하르시의 작품을 참조할 수 없는 이유는 무엇인가?
나는 당신이 Advaita Vedanta가 올바르게 대표될 수 있도록 대화를 할 것을 요청한다.
편집된 내용을 토론 없이 조기 반달리즘으로 보도하는 것은 공개 백과사전의 정신을 무너뜨린다.— Ramanatruth (대화 • 기여) 21:47, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[에 의해 추가된 사전 서명되지 않은 논평
- 여기는 콘텐츠 분쟁 자체를 해결하는 곳이 아니라 토크에서 그렇게 해야 한다.Advaita Vedanta.그래서 페이지를 편집으로부터 보호하고, 되돌아가던 사람들에게 대신 그 문제를 논의할 기회를 주는 것이다.비블브록스 (대화) 22:52, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
법적 위협?
대화 중:테네리페 공항 참사#ATC 오류?!, HistoryBuff14(토크 · 기여) 및 그의 IP 199.191.108.18(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)에 의해.즉 스페인 관제사들에 대한 비판을 말하는 것은 명예훼손에 해당한다.어쨌든 법적 위협이 아니더라도 WP와 함께 비누 박스(soapbox)를 선택했다.적어도 두 개의 기사의 토크 페이지에는, 그의 명명된 계정으로 이것에 대한 토크 페이지 경고를 받았다.나는 테네리페 기사에 대한 그의 수술 게시글을 붕괴시키기로 선택했지만 그는 이 과정에서 내 게시글을 삭제하면서 이것을 되돌리기로 선택했다.나는 이것을 번복했고 그는 나를 번복했지만 이번에는 내 자리를 그대로 남겨두었다.나는 WP:1RR을 가능한 한 고수하기를 좋아하기 때문에 일단 그대로 두기로 했다.그의 IP토크페이지에서 그 문제를 토론해 달라는 나의 초대는 응답하지 않았다.N419BH 18:25, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
--자신의 요점 중 하나에 관한 나의 최근 노트를 당신의 토크 페이지에서 보아주십시오.이것은 전적으로 내 잘못인 오해다.나의 명예훼손 경고에 관해서, 나는 그것을 지지한다.스페인이나 미국의 조사 보고서들 중 어느 것도 ATC의 사고에 대해 비난하지 않는다.팬암 부조종사는 또한 항공 교통 관제사에게 그 비극에 대한 어떠한 과실도 없앴다.네덜란드 보고서만 그랬을 뿐, 나는 이 보고서가 가장 의심스러운 방식으로 검토되어야 하는 이유를 굳이 설명할 필요는 없다고 생각한다.어쨌든, KLM은 결국 그 비극에 대한 단독 책임을 지고 말았다.다시 한번 너의 발언을 수정하는 것에 대해 오해해서 미안해.나는 사실 너의 편집에 동의해.HistoryBuff14 (대화) 18:33, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 명예훼손에 관한 히스토리버프14(그가 말하는 네덜란드 보고서인데 N419가 아니다.)에 대해 왜 오해를 받을 수 있는지 설명하면서 그의 토크 페이지에 약간의 메모를 남겼다.---엘렌 더 로드(대화) 23:07, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
아직 또 다른 백로그
Hey All, WP에서 밀린 일이 있다.RPP, 관리자 몇 명이 좀 봐주면 고맙겠다.고마워. :) - 중립호머 • 대화 • 19:17, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 이런, 일주일 내내 이런 식이었어.왜 그러고 있어?최근에 전혀 밀리지 않은 CSD를 하고 있는 모든 사람들이 쉬고 있다.내가 한번 해 볼게.비블브록스 (대화) 19:26, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- CSD는 내가 볼 때마다 밀렸어.모두 반달들을 쫒고 있는게 틀림없어. --Elen of the Roads (대화) 23:10, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[하라
아마추어 무선 단체 목록
List_of_amateur_radio_organization(대화 내역 편집으로 로그 보기 삭제 링크 보호) 88.2.226.36(대화 및 기여)
앞서 이 페이지에서는 IP 사용자가 카탈로니아 라디오 방송국을 자체 섹션으로 분리하려고 반복적으로 시도하는 등 분쟁/편집 전쟁이 벌어졌는데, 기사는 국가별로 정리돼 있고, 카탈로니아는 그렇게 정의돼 있지 않다.
나는 편집전쟁을 보고했고, 시작 토론을 시도한 후 109.69.9.10 (토크 · 기여)이 차단되었다고 보고했다.동일한 사용자가 이제 새로운 IP 주소(상단에 표시된 88). Chzz 5 21:45, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그것이 링크하는 기사, Unio de Radioaficionats de Catalunya (Talk history protect delete links watch logs views)는 Ea3wr (talk·contribs)에 의해 며칠 전에 만들어졌고, 그 사용자 또한 목록 기사에도 같은 변경을 가했다. Chzz 5 22:41, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
사용자:WP에서 사람들을 모욕하는 내용:RD/H
누군가 적어도 사용자에게 경고할 수 있는가?여기서처럼 다른 사용자의 질문을 모욕해서는 안 된다는 문자?--벨치맨(대화) 00:32, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)[
- 그만 좀 해.또는 관리 작업이 거부되었다는 템플릿그 게시판을 처음 보셨나요?대화들은 종종 그런 식으로 얽히고설키곤 한다 - 그것은 재미의 일부분이다.당신은 완전히 예의 바르게, 그리고 아주 짧은 시간 안에, 당신의 답변을 받았다.더 무엇을 원하십니까? --Leen of the Roads (대화) 00:48, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- Textorus는 오늘 기분이 언짢아 보인다.여기서 언급된 바로 위의 줄기에서 나는 "하이로, 내가 가장 외교적인 사람이었을 때 "여기서는 네가 일부러 둔하고 파괴적인 것 같다"고 말한 적이 있다. 힐러리 클린턴에게 전화를 건 것에 대한 매우 비꼬는 글과 "성장한 친구"에 대한 편집 요약을 한 적이 있다.나는 일부 편집자들이 이스라엘의 주제들이 약간 대치하고 있다고 생각하는 것에 놀라지도 않고 개인적으로도 화가 나지도 않는다.하지만 이것은 위키피디아에게 좋은 모습은 아니다.HiLo48 (대화) 01:05, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 공교롭게도 벨흐만이 진정 언명하지 않은 논평으로 인해 차단된 것이 눈에 띈다. --엘렌 더 로드즈 (대화) 01:29, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 정말이지. 만약 Textorus 코멘트가 여기에 와서 Belchman의 후속 코멘트를 시작할 가치가 있다면, Belchman은 더 두꺼운 피부를 만들 필요가 있다는 것을 나는 주목한다.그런 식의 발언을 할 수 있는 사람이 텍토러스의 가벼운 체딩을 감당할 수 없다면, 어디서 도움을 받을 수 있을지... --Jayron32 01:35, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 벨치먼이 이곳에 와서 그 댓글을 올린 것(반전된 후 다시 붙여 두 번)은 참으로 기괴한 일이다.그리고, 그의 토크 페이지에서 그가 한 후기 댓글을 읽어본 결과, 그는 확실히 이해하지 못한다.--Bb23 (토크) 01:39, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- OP는 보통 다른 Ref Desk 편집자에 대한 그의 불만을 Ref Desk Talk 페이지에 국한시킨다.나는 그가 이 정도로 받아들였다는 것이 놀랍다. 특히 그가 여기서 불평하고 있던 논평이 꽤 지루했고, 단순히 벨흐만의 강연에 대한 반응이었다.나는 그가 또한 이 brouhaha에 대한 ref 데스크의 토크 페이지로 안내되었다는 것을 주목한다.【베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 02:29, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)】[
- 벨치먼이 이곳에 와서 그 댓글을 올린 것(반전된 후 다시 붙여 두 번)은 참으로 기괴한 일이다.그리고, 그의 토크 페이지에서 그가 한 후기 댓글을 읽어본 결과, 그는 확실히 이해하지 못한다.--Bb23 (토크) 01:39, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 정말이지. 만약 Textorus 코멘트가 여기에 와서 Belchman의 후속 코멘트를 시작할 가치가 있다면, Belchman은 더 두꺼운 피부를 만들 필요가 있다는 것을 나는 주목한다.그런 식의 발언을 할 수 있는 사람이 텍토러스의 가벼운 체딩을 감당할 수 없다면, 어디서 도움을 받을 수 있을지... --Jayron32 01:35, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
스타 파커 삭제
단지 예고- 2011년 3월 스타 파커의 삭제는 교통량이 많은 보수/자유주의 블로그에 의해 강조되었다.위키피디아 토크에서 코멘트가 나오기 시작했다.삭제/스타 파커 등에 대한 기사.개인적으로 나는 그 삭제는 나쁜 생각이었을지도 모른다고 생각한다 - 파커는 확실히 보수적인 정치계에서 잘 알려져 있다 - 하지만 내가 파커에 대해 아는 것은 그 기사를 재현할 수 있는 문턱을 넘지 못한다.켈리 00:37, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이 기사는 다음과 같이 부화되었다.위키백과:위키프로젝트 보수/인큐베이터/스타 파커.~~로타 폰 리치토펜 (대화) 00:41, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 위키피디아에서 IP의 DRV 요청을 빠르게 닫았다.삭제 검토/로그/2011년 11월 5일자로 인큐베이터를 방문하십시오. 샌드스타인 08:56, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 또한 일주일 동안 기사를 반회전시켜 요약에 관련 링크를 포함시켰다. 이미 한 번의 레크리에이션이 있었다. 샌드스타인 09:03, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
무한정 차단된 Pri-ya_chen용 소켓 꼭두각시 라마나트
나는 라마나트루스가 영구적으로 금지된 편집자 프리야_첸 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Pri-ya_chen72.92.115.251 (토크) 04:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[]의 소켓 인형이라고 거의 확신한다
- 예를 들어, 여기 72.92.115.251 (대화) 04:21, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[]을 참조하십시오
- 이런 상황의 배경을 알고 있는 극소수의 사람들이 이 게시판을 읽고 있다.당신의 우려에 대응할 수 있도록, 샘플링된 사람이 그것을 조작하고 있다는 증거를 보여주는 두 개의 수정본을 게시해 주시겠습니까?이전 계정에서 현재 차단된 편집만 게시하셨습니다.만약 당신이 두 계정에서 무언가를 올릴 수 있다면 우리는 증거를 비교할 수 있을 것이다. --Jayron32 04:25, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이것은 여기에 유사한 라마나 재료를 최근에 삽입한 것이다, 아래로 스크롤하라.추가 증거를 위해 사용자 이름이 "Ramanatruth"라는 점에 유의하십시오. 72.92.115.251 (대화) 04:35, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이런 상황의 배경을 알고 있는 극소수의 사람들이 이 게시판을 읽고 있다.당신의 우려에 대응할 수 있도록, 샘플링된 사람이 그것을 조작하고 있다는 증거를 보여주는 두 개의 수정본을 게시해 주시겠습니까?이전 계정에서 현재 차단된 편집만 게시하셨습니다.만약 당신이 두 계정에서 무언가를 올릴 수 있다면 우리는 증거를 비교할 수 있을 것이다. --Jayron32 04:25, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 예를 들어, 여기 72.92.115.251 (대화) 04:21, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[]을 참조하십시오
콜린과 국적 범주
콜린스(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 블록 유저 · 블록 로그)는 축구선수 국적과 관련된 유효한 범주를 수많은 기사에서 삭제해야 한다고 주장하고 있다.나는 그것에 대해 여러 번 이야기하려고 노력했지만(그의 토크 페이지에서 그것에 대한 여러 가지 실마리를 확인하려고), 그는 합의가 재확인된 후에도 계속해서 이러한 편집을 하고 있다.앞으로 나아가는 가장 좋은 방법은 무엇인가?주제 금지?나는 그가 훌륭한 편집장이기 때문에 굳이 블럭을 제안하고 싶지는 않다.자이언트 스노우맨 18:35, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 위키프로브레이션으로 충분할까?흔들리는 주님 올라프: 우편함 18:46, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 그래, 반달은 하나도 없어.그러나 관련 WP 이후 이러한 행동은 괜찮은가?풋볼 토론, 스노우맨과 나 자신으로부터 통보받은 거?그의 그 후의 반응은 "그래, 네가 원하는 모든 합의에 도달해 - 우리에겐 있어 - 난 상관없어!별로 점잖지 않지?주의 깊게 - --Vasco Amaral (대화) 21:09, 2011년 11월 3일 (UTC)[
- 스노우맨, 미안하지만, 그 토론을 보면서 나는 편집자의 행동에 대한 분명한 비난은 고사하고, 어떻게 해야 할지 정말 분명한 합의를 보지 못한다.그들의 설명할 수 없는 제거는 방해가 된다고 말할거야, 의심의 여지가 없지만, 여러분 모두가 여기에도 없고 거기에도 없는 블록을 찾고 있는게 아니라는 걸 고려하면.나는 당신이 다음을 시도할 수 있다고 생각한다: 아래 하위섹션에서 제안된 주제 금지를 통해 당신의 사례를 명확하고 간결하게 설명하라. (당신이 반드시 원하는 것은 그것이 아니더라도--이것이 ANI라는 것을 감안할 때, 당신은 그와 같은 일을 해야 한다. 그래서 당신은 행정 개입을 요청한다.)그러나 FOOTY에서 논의한 내용은 다음과 같다.TALK는 명확하지 않았다.거기에 참여한 모든 편집자들에게 한 줄씩 적어 보내면, FOOTY 토크 페이지에 어떤 내용이 나오는지 볼 수 있을 것이다. (내 추측으로는, 불행하게도, 별로-- 하지만 당신이 무언가를 성취하고 싶다면, 카테고리에 대한 편집 입력과 명확성이 필요할 것이다.)행운을 빈다.Drmies (토크) 00:26, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- Drmies의 조언에 감사드리며, 나는 현재 직장에 있지만, 내가 충분한 시간이 있을 때(토요일/내일) 나는 네가 제안한 대로 할 것이다.자이언트 스노우맨 13:04, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 스노우맨, 미안하지만, 그 토론을 보면서 나는 편집자의 행동에 대한 분명한 비난은 고사하고, 어떻게 해야 할지 정말 분명한 합의를 보지 못한다.그들의 설명할 수 없는 제거는 방해가 된다고 말할거야, 의심의 여지가 없지만, 여러분 모두가 여기에도 없고 거기에도 없는 블록을 찾고 있는게 아니라는 걸 고려하면.나는 당신이 다음을 시도할 수 있다고 생각한다: 아래 하위섹션에서 제안된 주제 금지를 통해 당신의 사례를 명확하고 간결하게 설명하라. (당신이 반드시 원하는 것은 그것이 아니더라도--이것이 ANI라는 것을 감안할 때, 당신은 그와 같은 일을 해야 한다. 그래서 당신은 행정 개입을 요청한다.)그러나 FOOTY에서 논의한 내용은 다음과 같다.TALK는 명확하지 않았다.거기에 참여한 모든 편집자들에게 한 줄씩 적어 보내면, FOOTY 토크 페이지에 어떤 내용이 나오는지 볼 수 있을 것이다. (내 추측으로는, 불행하게도, 별로-- 하지만 당신이 무언가를 성취하고 싶다면, 카테고리에 대한 편집 입력과 명확성이 필요할 것이다.)행운을 빈다.Drmies (토크) 00:26, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 국적을 위해 어떤 정보가 포함되어야 하는가에 대한 고도의 지침이 필요한데, 그 단어 자체에 대한 정의가 포함되어야 한다고 생각한다.나는 [88]에서 이 문제에 대한 실마리를 찾기 시작했다. 비록 이 문제에 대한 의견은 그다지 많지 않았지만.만약 문제가 더 높은 수준에서 정리된다면, 우리는 '축구하는 국적'이 어떻게 들어맞는지 다루기 시작할 수 있을 것이다.Eldumpo (대화) 15:14, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
스노우맨이 말하길...
좋아, 가능한 한 간략하지만 세세하게 말해볼게(무슨 뜻인지 알겠지!)국적 이전은 축구/축구 협회에서 항상 일어난다.이 플레이어는 독일에서 가나로, 이 플레이어는 영국에서 나이지리아로, 카메룬에서 부르키노 파소로, 그리고 그것은 지난 이틀 동안 한 웹사이트에서 전해진 뉴스였습니다!하지만, 당신이 축구 국적을 바꾼다고 해서 이전 국적을 잃는 것은 아니다 - 당신은 여전히 법적으로 두 나라의 시민이다.그러나 콜린스는 이런 상식적인 접근법에 동의하지 않는다.다음과 같은 시나리오를 상상해 보십시오.
나는 당신이 여기서 내가 말하고자 하는 요점을 이해하기를 바란다. 단지 당신이, 유산/부분의 요행으로 인해 국제 스포츠에서 "새로운" 국가를 대표할 수 있다고 해서, 당신이 갑자기 당신의 옛 국적을 "잃어버린" 것을 의미하지는 않는다.자이언트 스노우맨 00:43, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 당신이 위에서 보여주고 있는 원칙에 동의하는데, 특히 당신이 다른 국가 협회에서 뛴다고 해서 원래의 '국가성'을 잃지 않는다는 점에 동의한다.그러나 나는 이 접근법이 필시 푸티(일부 사람들은 당신이 오직 하나의 '국가성'만을 가질 수 있다고 믿는다), 그리고 콜린스에게 공평하게 말하면, 이 규칙들은 어디에도 나와 있는 나의 지식에 맞지 않는다.실제로 이러한 모든 범주는 허용 가능한 범주를 명확히 하기 위해 범주에 대한 포함 기준을 설명하고 위키 링크를 포함하는 텍스트를 처음부터 포함해야 한다.Eldumpo (대화) 08:42, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 그들이 어디서 왔는지 이해하지만, 리키 쉐이크나 저메인 존스 같은 두 나라에서 시니어 국제 축구를 한 선수들은 어떨까?자이언트 스노우맨 12시 57분, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 가장 중요한 질문은 우리가 우리를 통제하기 위해 가이드라인/정책을 얼마나 사용하는가, 또는 우리가 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 말하는 것을 단순히 보고하는가 하는 것이다.당신이 Jones의 기사에서 출처를 살펴보면 그의 국적/국가는 다양한 방식으로 취급된다.나는 NFT가 출생지와 국가대표팀을 따로 열거하여 문제를 명확히 하는 방식이 좋다.우리는 위키에서 우리의 '국가성' 논평이 가리키는 것이 무엇인지를 고려할 필요가 있다.그것이 국기가 문제가 될 수 있는 이유다 - 국기가 의미하는 것에 대한 문맥은 제공하지 않는다.엘덤포 (대화) 2011년 11월 5일 18:31 (UTC)[
- 나는 우리가 깃발 등에 대한 이야기로 약간 주제를 벗어나고 있다고 생각한다 - 이것은 카테고리와 한 편집자의 특정한 편집에 관한 이슈다.자이언트 스노우맨 13:49, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 아마도 가장 중요한 질문은 우리가 우리를 통제하기 위해 가이드라인/정책을 얼마나 사용하는가, 또는 우리가 신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 말하는 것을 단순히 보고하는가 하는 것이다.당신이 Jones의 기사에서 출처를 살펴보면 그의 국적/국가는 다양한 방식으로 취급된다.나는 NFT가 출생지와 국가대표팀을 따로 열거하여 문제를 명확히 하는 방식이 좋다.우리는 위키에서 우리의 '국가성' 논평이 가리키는 것이 무엇인지를 고려할 필요가 있다.그것이 국기가 문제가 될 수 있는 이유다 - 국기가 의미하는 것에 대한 문맥은 제공하지 않는다.엘덤포 (대화) 2011년 11월 5일 18:31 (UTC)[
- 그리고 나는 그들이 어디서 왔는지 이해하지만, 리키 쉐이크나 저메인 존스 같은 두 나라에서 시니어 국제 축구를 한 선수들은 어떨까?자이언트 스노우맨 12시 57분, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
손쉬운 4me - 운영 중단 편집?(AIV에서 이동)
- Easy4me(대화 • 기여 • 삭제된 기여 • 핵 기여 • 로그 • 필터 로그 • 사용자 차단 • 로그 차단) – 많은 경고 후 파괴 행위.RadioFan (토크) 00:23, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 공공 기물 파손은 안 보여내가 보고 있는 수정은 미묘한 반달리즘이라기보다는 정확한 것 같다.만약 내가 틀렸다면, 너는 약간의 차이점을 제공해 줄 수 있니?2011년X 11월 4일 02:00 (UTC)[하라
AIV에서 여기로 옮기고 있는 이유는 뭔가 단서가 부족한 사용자나 악의적으로 느리게 움직이는 반달인 것 같기 때문이다.나는 경고한 편집자와의 상호 작용에서 증명되었듯이, 사용자가 단지 도우려고 하고 있다고 생각한다: [89], [90]을 참조하십시오.물론, 더 많은 눈이 좋을 것이다.
토론과 Easy4me에 관련된 모든 편집자는 나 혼자 통보받았다. m.o.p 04:12, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 음, 만약 편집자가 (명백히 틀리더라도) 선의의 편집을 하고 있지만, 토론하려는 시도를 무시하고, 중단하라는 경고를 받기 시작한다면, 만약 그들이 계속된다면, 그들은 차단되어야 한다.나는 아직 기고문을 읽지 않았고 여기서 일어난 일이 그런 것인지 모르겠다.다니엘 케이스 (토크) 05:12, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 기고문을 읽고 여러분의 생각을 공유하십시오. 몇 가지를 스캔했는데, 이 사용자가 선의로 행동하지 않는다는 것을 암시할 만한 것은 아무것도 없고, 훨씬 더 파괴적이다.하지만 말하기 쉽지 않기 때문에, 나는 복습이 정당하다는 것에 동의한다.11:10, 2011년 11월 4일(UTC) 군중[
얘들아, 맹세컨데 난 반란을 일으키거나 그런 짓은 안할거야난 너희들처럼 평범한 편집자일 뿐이야.편집 요약에 뭘 넣으려고 자꾸 잊어버리는데 언제 부 편집으로 표시해야 할지 모르겠어.또한, 싱글 발매 날짜에 대해서...나는 노래 페이지에 발표된 대로 하고 있다.틀렸다고 말하면, 그 노래 페이지를 편집해.게다가, 나는 토론 페이지에 기고해 본 적이 없고 그것에 대한 정보가 필요해.너희들이 이해해 주길 바라.고마워 계속 편집해! :) 이지포미 (대화) 12시 19분, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 사실 당신이 기사에 소개하는 어떤 사실들이 우리에게 부정확하지만, 당신은 그것이 옳다고 생각한다면, 이것이 당신이 해야 할 일이다.다시 한 번 말하지만, 당신이 방해하는 것 같지는 않지만, 나는 당신의 편집 이력을 보았고, 사실상의 오류가 반복적으로 발생하는 것을 보았다. --Bryce Wilson talk 14:28, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
편집자는 정기적으로 사실상의 오류를 범하고, 때로는 그렇지 않을 때도 있지만 출처를 밝히지 않고 반복적으로 "소수" 편집 확인란을 오용한다.많은 경고가 있은 후, 우리는 편집자가 이 문제들을 고칠 수 없다는 것을 들었다.만약 이 모든 것이 사실이라면, 나는 이것을 고칠 수 있는 한 가지 방법만을 알고 있다.다른 아이디어는? - SummerPhD (대화) 03:50, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 그것을 요구하는 것이 아니라 제시된 사실들이 다른 선택지를 남기지 않고 내가 놓친 것이 없는지 묻는 것 같다고 제안하는 것이다.(하지만, 그래, 나의 언급은 조금 모호한 것 이상이었을지도 모른다.) - SummerPhD (대화) 13:34, 2011년 11월 5일 (응답]
위키백과:삭제/에너지 촉매제 기사
- - 이제 그만 말해.AfD는 폐쇄되었고 일부 코멘트가 잘못 해석되지 않도록 작성되었다. --Tone 22:34, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 AN/I 토의에서 M.O.P.의 끝을 되돌렸다. M.O.P.의 조기 마감에 대해 불만을 제기하고 있는 것처럼 그는 또한 우리가 이 문제에 대해 여기서 성공적으로 논의했다고 말할 사람이 되어서는 안 된다. (M.O.P.에게 통보했다) DGG (토크) 23:49, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
이 논의는 점점 더 나쁜 믿음과 나쁜 행동에 의해 지배되고 있다.이쯤 되면 적어도 그 일은 유지될 것 같고 합병될 것 같다.나는 몇몇 사심 없는 행정가를 초대해서 그 일에 끼어들어 그것을 닫아 무수한 무고한 전자들의 생명을 구하려고 했다.망고 (대화) 17:39, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- AfDs는 7일 동안 운영하기로 되어 있고, 아직 광범위한 논의가 진행 중이다.필자도 인형의 사부님이 댓글을 분명히 읽지 않았고, 그저 '유인'한 것 같기 때문에 마무리 발언은 부적절하다고 생각한다.그럼에도 불구하고, 무엇이든지 - 만약 위키피디아가 스네이크 오일 판매원과 헉스터들을 위한 광고를 출판하고, '백과사전'으로 가장하고 싶다면, 그것에 대해 내가 할 수 있는 것은 많지 않다.솔직히, 나는 어쨌든 여기서 벌어지는 유아적인 "그것은 주목할만해!" 논쟁에 진저리가 난다.그레이트 퍼시픽 쓰레기 패치도 눈에 띄지만, 나는 그것이 그것에 기여하는 이유라고 생각하지 않는다.Andy TheGrump (talk) 18:24, 2011년 11월 4일 (UTC)[
- 진정으로 논란이 되고 있는 후드를 일찍 유지하거나 삭제하는 것은 결코 좋은 생각이 아니다.그것은 필연적으로 클로즈업의 반전을 초래하거나 델레브로의 이동을 초래하며, 거의 항상 다른 afd가 뒤따른다.{시작부터 즉시 재기동할 목적으로 파괴적인 AfDas 노컨센서스를 폐쇄하는 것은 다른 문제로서, 만족스러운 해결책이었을 수도 있다.)나 자신은 근본적인 문제에 대해 고정된 견해를 가지고 있지 않다. 한편으로는 기사를 쓸 가치가 있다고 생각한다. 다른 한편으로, 그 기사는 뻔뻔스러울 정도로 홍보적이며, 삭제와 재시작을 위한 좋은 사례가 될 수 있다.AN/I에서 마감된 부분을 먼저 되돌린 후 AfDI에서 마감된 부분을 되돌리는 것에 대해서는 그렇게 하고 싶지 않지만, 나는 분명히 누군가가 그렇게 해야 한다고 생각한다.나는 그것이 결국 Del Rev에 도착할 것이라고 추측하지만, 우선 7일 내내 적절한 논의가 있어야 한다. DGG (토크) 00:00, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 하루 더 일찍 봤는데, 너무 많이 줄었나 봐.어느 쪽이든 간에, 만약 사람들이 성급하게 종결된 합의가 잘못 전달되거나 이틀이 더 지나면 다른 결과가 나온다고 느낀다면, 나는 그것을 다시 열어도 괜찮다.
- 또한 DGG는 결의안 고지를 되돌리는 것은 사실상 아무 의미가 없으므로(이 문제를 해결한 것으로 표시한 후 우려가 제기되었다는 점을 감안할 때) 너무 논란이 많다고 생각되면 언제든지 폐지를 되돌리십시오.m.p 01:45, 2011년 11월 5일(UTC)[
- 이제 어떻게 되는 겁니까?우리는 그 기사에 대한 아무런 통지가 없는 AFD를 가지고 있고, 많은 기고자들은 아마도 이 문제가 해결되었다고 생각하고 있으며, 더 이상 기여할 것 같지 않다.우리는 또한 '논의'에서 불쾌한 인종차별주의 발언 등을 하고 있는데, 그것이 애초에 AFD가 여기서 제기되었던 이유였다. 하지만 이것은 그것을 서둘러 끝내려는 과정에서 잊혀진 것 같다.이것은 완전한 익살로 변했다 - 그리고 이 AfD는 그들이 그들의 자료를 행복하게 출처하는 방식으로 보아 의심의 여지없이 외부인들의 관심을 받고 있다. (어떤 사람들은 심지어 이것을 인정할 만큼 정직하다.)지금 무슨 일이 일어나든 우리는 바보처럼 보일 것이다.Andy TheGrump (talk) 02:40, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
AfD가 진로를 운영하게 하고 적절한 방법으로 폐쇄할 수 있도록?적어도 그게 표준 절차야. m.o.p 04:37, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[하라
- 아니다. '표준 절차'는 조기 마감과 관련되지 않았을 것이다. '표준 절차'는 폐쇄를 되돌린 다음 다른 사람에게 알리지 않는 것을 포함하고 있는가?네가 여기 있는 동안 사과하는 건 어때?그리고 애초에 여기서 AFD가 제기되게 된 인종차별적 발언에 대해 어떤 조치를 취할 사람이 있을까?Andy TheGrump (talk) 04:46, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 원래 감정이 격앙되고 공감대가 형성되어 AFD를 닫았다 - 사람들이 서로의 목을 조르는 이틀을 기다리는 것보다 내가 더 중요하다고 느꼈던 것이다.사람들이 이에 반대했고, 나는 되돌리기로 동의했기 때문에, 나는 당신이 내가 무엇을 더 하기를 원하는지 잘 모르겠다.AfD가 다시 열렸으니 사람들이 AfD를 볼 수 없을 것 같지는 않다.그것은 여전히 주요 AfD 페이지에 나열되어 있다.사용자들은 여전히 정상적으로 코멘트를 할 수 있다. m.o.p 05:24, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그리고 AfD가 끌어들인 위키백과의 '새로운 기고자'들 중 얼마나 많은 사람들이 '주요 AfD 페이지'를 볼 것인가?왜 내가 사람들에게 적절한 페이지를 알려야 했을까?당신이 '느꼈던' 것에 대해, 나는 당신이 더 많이 생각하고, 덜 당신의 감정에 의존하는 것을 제안한다.만약 '불타는 감정'이 있다면, 정말 정당한 절차를 자의적으로 무시함으로써 사라지게 만들 수 있다고 생각하는가?그리고 애초에 여기서 AFD가 제기되게 된 인종차별적 발언에 대해 어떤 조치를 취할 사람이 있을까?Andy TheGrump (talk) 05:40, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 베일에 싸인 모욕은 의사소통에 있어서 유용하지 않다.다르게 생각하도록 이끌렸다면 사과할게.또한, 나는 이미 내 측근을 지지한다고 말했다 - 왜 자꾸 내 의도를 확인하라고 하는지 잘 모르겠다. m.o.p 07:23, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 좀처럼 모욕감을 감추지 않는다.그리고 아무도 그것이 뒤집혔다는 것을 적절한 장소에 표시하기에 적합한 것을 보지 못했다는 사실과 당신이 '접근자 곁에 서 있다'는 것이 무슨 관계가 있는가?그리고 애초에 여기서 AFD가 제기되게 된 인종차별적 발언에 대해 어떤 조치를 취할 사람이 있을까?Andy TheGrump (talk) 07:34, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 아, 훌륭해.그럼 내가 너를 이 정책을 가리켜도 이해할 수 있을 거야.적절한 장소와 표시에 대해서 - 나는 여전히 네가 무엇을 기대하는지 잘 모르겠어.모든 사람들에게 변화를 알리는 현수막?모든 사용자의 페이지에 있는 메시지?폐막작전의 번복은 무난. m.o.p 07:43, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 제드 쇼트(대화·출연자)는 그러한 인신공격에 나섰고 드레이즈로부터 명시적으로 경고를 받았다.[91] 이어서 드레이즈의 토크 페이지에 대한 토론이 이어졌다.[92]Mathsci (대화) 07:57, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
나에게 있어 이 문제는 개인적인 공격이 아니라 인종적 정형화의 사용이다.드라미스의 토크 페이지에 대한 토론은 주로 제드 숏이 그 성명을 '재미있다'고 옹호하고 고정관념을 되풀이하는 것으로 이루어졌다.말한 것의 요지는 모든 독일인들은 유전적으로 규칙에 집착하도록 미리 정해져 있다는 것이다(그리고 추론에 의해 나치가 된다).나는 독일인이고 테우토닉 사람들에 대한 논평은 완전히 받아들일 수 없다고 생각한다. 그리고 제드 숏은 최소한 이 진술에 대해 사과해야 한다.I also don't appreciate constantly being labelled as AndyTheGrump's sock- or meatpuppet by Zedshort.(I've discussed this with Zedshort and am satified that he did not mean it in this way) On the AfD, I totally agree with m.o.p's close as keep, as the discussion had completely deteriorated, and even when ignoring the single-purpose comments, the o진정한 공감대는 유지되는 것 같았다.109a152a8a146 (대화) 15:58, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 제드 쇼트(대화·출연자)는 그러한 인신공격에 나섰고 드레이즈로부터 명시적으로 경고를 받았다.[91] 이어서 드레이즈의 토크 페이지에 대한 토론이 이어졌다.[92]Mathsci (대화) 07:57, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 아, 훌륭해.그럼 내가 너를 이 정책을 가리켜도 이해할 수 있을 거야.적절한 장소와 표시에 대해서 - 나는 여전히 네가 무엇을 기대하는지 잘 모르겠어.모든 사람들에게 변화를 알리는 현수막?모든 사용자의 페이지에 있는 메시지?폐막작전의 번복은 무난. m.o.p 07:43, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나는 좀처럼 모욕감을 감추지 않는다.그리고 아무도 그것이 뒤집혔다는 것을 적절한 장소에 표시하기에 적합한 것을 보지 못했다는 사실과 당신이 '접근자 곁에 서 있다'는 것이 무슨 관계가 있는가?그리고 애초에 여기서 AFD가 제기되게 된 인종차별적 발언에 대해 어떤 조치를 취할 사람이 있을까?Andy TheGrump (talk) 07:34, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- "폐쇄 조치의 반전은 괜찮다"?진짜.그렇다면 다시 문을 연 AFD를 기사를 보는 사람들에게 보이지 않게 내버려두는 것은 '그냥 괜찮다'는 말인가?그것은 내게는 오히려 잘못을 덮어씌우려는 시도로 보인다.'티봇' 논평에 대해서는, 여러분은 분명히 그 배경을 알지 못하며, 이것의 역사를 들여다볼 필요가 있다- 나는 전적으로 WP를 기반으로 한, 차가운 융합의 티케틀 은유와 E-Cat과의 관련성에 대한 토론을 포함하기를 원하는 기고자와 오랜 토론을 했다.OR. AfD에서 나는 삭푸페리(sockpuppetry)로 고소당했고, 인종차별적 학대를 받았다.AfD 자체는 완전히 엉망이었으며, OR이나 순수한 희망적 생각만을 바탕으로 한 논평들(많은 '새로운 기여자들'의 높은 의심은 말할 것도 없고), 말도 안 되는 음모론들은 '검열'이라고 주장되는 것을 보여주기 위해 난무했다.그렇다, 나는 내가 나치(또는 그 무엇이든)임을 암시하는 것이 토론에 적절하다고 생각하는 것 같았던 '논객'에 대한 응답에 욕설 하나를 사용했지만, 실제로는 그의 주장을 정당화하는 것은 적절하지 않았다.객관적 평가가 WP를 위반하는 것으로 간주되는 모든 조항을 위해:프린지, WP:NOTPROMOONION과 거의 모든 위키백과 정책.만약 WP:Civil (WP가 아닌 경우:NPA는 기사 내용보다 (그리고 위키피디아의 평판 - 이것은 '기자'들에 의해 출처로서 분명히 이용되고 있는, 잘 보이는 기사다) 그때 내 행동이 잘못되었다.혹은 더 그럴 가능성이 높다면, 나는 여기서 시간을 낭비하고 있고, 위키피디아는 애매한 '과학'을 위한 블로그/웹호스트에 지나지 않으며, 과거가 암울하고 잘 속는 기자들을 조종하는 요령을 가진 개인들에 의해 운영되는 마법의 콩 또는 마법의 찻주전자의 모든 신뢰를 가지고 있다.물론 우리는 이것이 우리의 관심사가 아닌 척 할 수 있고, 우리의 E-Cat 기사가 이 '장치'의 신뢰성을 주기 위해 악용되고 있다는 사실을 무시할 수 있다.아니 오히려 할 수 있다.못해요내가 잘못 온 것 같아.위키피디아는 '백과사전'보다 '누구나 편집할 수 있다'는 것을 더 중요하게 여기는 것 같기 때문에 (허크스터를 위한 광고 공간보다는) 아마도 나는 당신에게 맡겨야 할 것 같다...Andy TheGrump (talk) 15:08, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 우리는 이미 우리의 철저한 논의에 대해 철저한 논의를 했다.지난 7일 동안 AfD를 열어둔 것은 좀 지나친 것 같다.닫힌 시간에 맞추기 위해 몇 시간 더 열어두고, 그 이후에는 합의점을 재평가하여 일을 마무리 짓는다.m.o.p 03:32, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 당신의 의견이 주목되었고, 그 의견은 고맙게 여겨졌다.ANI가 위키백과에서 10번째로 많은 감시 목록 페이지라는 점을 감안하면, 내가 관심을 피하고 있다는 주장은 좀 웃기다는 생각이 든다.어쨌든, 난 여기서 끝이야.내 토크 페이지에서 언제든지 연락해.건배, m.o.p 04:07, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 하지만 난 논란을 좋아해농담이야.어차피 이번 달은 할당한 루즈 액션을 이미 한 번 써봤어. m.o.p 22:10, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[하라
마이클 플러드 (남자의 권리)
마이클 플러드를 당신의 워치리스트에 추가해 주시오. 그를 억류하고 있는 다수의 남성 인권 운동가들의 표적이 되는 BLP인 셈인데, 우리는 이 점을 매우 낮게 평가해야 할 것이다.지금까지 그 활동은 다수의 대화 페이지와 오프사이트 토론으로 제한되어 있다.토크 페이지에 기사 보호관찰 공지를 추가했지만 다른 관리자들이 상황을 예의주시하고 있는 것이 분명하지 않으면 그것이 큰 효과를 거둘 수 있을지 의문이다.나 자신도 지금 온라인에 접속하는 시간이 제한되어 있고, 이 시간을 제대로 볼 수 없다.미리 고맙다.킬러치후아?!? 09:17, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 나는 Flood가 토크 페이지의 기사를 수정하는 것을 돕고 있다는 것을 주목한다.그 글은 전기적 세부 사항이 매우 빈약하다.2008년 이전에는 빅토리아 건강증진재단의 자금으로 라 트로베 대학의 박사후 연구원이었다.그것은 기사에 없다.그는 토크 페이지에서 (남자와 아버지의 권리는 특별히 두드러지지 않는) 연구의 다섯 가지 주요 분야를 언급하지만, 다시 말하지만 그것은 현재의 단조함에서 풀기 어렵다.Mathsci (토크) 11:21, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
Michael Kimmel은 비슷한 이유로 어떤 눈으로도 할 수 있는 또 다른 BLP 기사다.나는 이미 심리학 투데이 블로그로 보내진 "감정" 섹션에서 부당한 이슈에 대해 걱정하고 있다.Slp1 (대화) 18:36, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
Johnwhite99는 반복적인 경고 후 Afd 템플릿의 삭제를 계속했다...
Afd에서 삭제를 위해 OpenDDR 기사를 제출했고, Johnwhite99는 반복된 경고에도 계속 태그를 제거한다.빅토리안(Talk) 무탕트 15:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 그는 그것을 의심한 이후로 그것을 제거하지 않았고 당신은 응답했다.— HelloAnnyong(say whaaat?!) 15:26, 2011년 11월 6일 (
- 그래, 그리고 웰컴 템플릿을 떨어뜨릴 생각을 한 사람 있어? 규칙을 완전히 몰랐다고 가정하기 위해서?나는 지금 그것을 했다.(talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:38, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
기물 파손자가 헐거워진 것 같다.
샌드크릭 대학살 때 말이야출근해야 하는데, 여기 있는 사람이 자기 컴퓨터 폭발이나 뭐 그런 걸 일으킬 수 있을까?카르프트라시 (대화) 15:57, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 위에서 언급한 결의안 외에, 이것은 IP 한 곳에 의한 정원 버라이어티 반달리즘이었고, Carptrash를 포함한 편집자 두 명이 IP를 되돌렸음에도 불구하고, 현재 내가 하고 있는 IP의 Talk 페이지에 아무도 경고를 올리지 않았다.--Bbbb23 (talk) 16:46, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
수고하셨습니다.IP 페이지에 무언가를 게시하는 것이 내가 할 수 있는 일이 아니라고 가정하는 것이 옳은가?카렙트라쉬 (대화)20:02, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 IP의 Talk 페이지에 해당될 때 반드시 게시할 수 있다.여기서 경고를 올리는 것이 적절했을 것이다.--Bbb23 (대화) 20:59, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
고통을 수반하는 어떤 것을 바라고 있었던 것 같다‥‥‥‥‥‥‥‥‥‥‥ 또는 끓어오르는 것을.다음번에는 IP주소를 가지고 온다.카르프트라시 (대화) 21:35, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
1RR 제한 사항 검토
인출됨
나는 2009년 10월 29일에 1RR 제한을 받았다; 그 제한은 2010년 2월 24일에 무기한으로 이루어졌다.나는 2010년 11월 14일에 마지막으로 차단당했다.그리고 나서 나는 지난 6월에 끝난 7개월짜리 위키리크레크를 먹었다.
나는 이 제한이 여전히 필요한지 궁금하다.나는 여기서 편집으로 접근하는 방식을 바꾸었는데, 이것은 때때로 변경에 대한 지원이 없으면 "잘못된" 버전을 그대로 두는 것을 의미한다.나는 또한 콘텐츠 분쟁에 대한 논의에 더 많이 관여하고 있다.
합의만 있다면 제자리 제약은 괜찮지만, 차라리 복역한 후에 감옥을 떠나는 것 같은 내 뒤로 미루는 게 낫겠다.방사선 요법 • talk• 01:26, 2011년 11월 7일(UTC)
- 그러니까... 여러 번 되돌릴 수 있었으면 좋겠다는 거야? 자주 말썽을 부린 거야?야, 너 정말 헛소리 하는구나.Rklawton (대화) 01:41, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- Rklawton은 그것을 정확히 맞췄고 게다가, 어떤 편집자도 1R을 위반하지 않는 것이 매우 현명하다. 어쨌든 당신이 하는 음악 장르 편집은 앞뒤로 하기 쉽다는 것에 신경쓰지 마라.네가 마지막으로 1RR을 넘어 떠돌다가 차단된 지 1년 정도 되었으니 (나에 의해, 우연히 그렇게 되니) 1RR 제한은 오래되었다고 해도 좋을 것 같다.심지어 WP:표준 오퍼는 대개 6개월의 기간과 관련이 있다.따라서, 여러분은 이것을 브리지 크로스라고 생각할 수 있지만, 어쨌든 1RR을 고수하고 만약 여러분이 2차 R을 하려고 한다면, 다른 사람에게 입력을 요청하거나 WP의 조언을 시도해 보십시오.백슬라이드를 하면 닥터도 크게 오그라들지 않을 겁니다.그웬 게일 (토크) 02:08, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 방사선 요법은 그의 요청을 철회했기 때문에 반대편에서 다른 것을 공급하는 것은 무례한 일일 것이다.하지만 그웬이 1RR 제한이 풀리는 것을 보고 싶다면, 나는 그녀가 새로운 실마리를 시작하고 그의 마지막 달 기고문에서 약간의 편집 전쟁에 대한 분석을 허용하기를 바란다.6개월 동안 아무런 문제가 없는 것이 제한을 해제하는 이유가 될 수 있지만, 최근의 사건들은 문제가 없는 것이 아니기 때문에 표준 오퍼 시계가 시작되지 않았다.공동체 제재가 풀리기 위해서는 합의가 필요하다는 것이 나의 생각이다.에드존스턴 (대화) 02:22, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- Rklawton은 그것을 정확히 맞췄고 게다가, 어떤 편집자도 1R을 위반하지 않는 것이 매우 현명하다. 어쨌든 당신이 하는 음악 장르 편집은 앞뒤로 하기 쉽다는 것에 신경쓰지 마라.네가 마지막으로 1RR을 넘어 떠돌다가 차단된 지 1년 정도 되었으니 (나에 의해, 우연히 그렇게 되니) 1RR 제한은 오래되었다고 해도 좋을 것 같다.심지어 WP:표준 오퍼는 대개 6개월의 기간과 관련이 있다.따라서, 여러분은 이것을 브리지 크로스라고 생각할 수 있지만, 어쨌든 1RR을 고수하고 만약 여러분이 2차 R을 하려고 한다면, 다른 사람에게 입력을 요청하거나 WP의 조언을 시도해 보십시오.백슬라이드를 하면 닥터도 크게 오그라들지 않을 겁니다.그웬 게일 (토크) 02:08, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그웬 게일, 나는 네가 무기한 치료법이 '고질'되었다고 선언할 의지가 조금 걱정된다.당신이 이 편집자와 관련하여 한 두 번째 선언인데, 두 경우 모두 상황을 제대로 인식하지 못한 것 같아 조금 걱정이 된다.편집자가 무기한 구제책을 적용해야 할 정도로 심각한 문제를 일으킬 때, 일반적으로 독자 분이 제한을 처음 제안한 관리자라 하더라도 지역사회에서 상의하지 않고 이를 완전히 뒤집는 것은 현명하지 못하다.
- 2010년 11월, 방사선 요법은 그웬 게일에게 현존하는 1RR 제한을 반복적으로 위반하여 2주 동안 차단되었다.이어지는 AN/I 논의의 일환으로, 그웬 게일(Gwen Gale)에 의해 0RR 제한이 부과되었고 커뮤니티에 의해 승인되었다. [94].그 당시 방사선 요법은 편집을 중단했다.그는 약 7개월 동안 돌아오지 않았고 2011년 6월에 다시 편집을 시작했다.편집 재개 16분 후 그의 세 번째 편집은 비반달리즘 편집의 복귀였다.약 한 달 후(그리고 많은 반전이) 누군가가 방사선요법이 여전히 연장된 0RR 제한을 일관성 있고 정기적으로 위반하고 있다는 것을 알아차리고 그웬 게일에게 문제를 제기했다. [95].그웬 게일은 0RR '스틸'을 선언하고 효과가 없었다.나는 그웬 게일이 그 당시 방사선이 그 시점에서 겨우 한 달 동안 편집을 하고 있었다는 사실을 몰랐고, 또한 방사선이 그의 활발한 편집 경력의 어떤 부분에서도 0RR 제한을 준수하지 않았음을 우려한다.
- 오늘날까지, 방사선 요법은 약 5개월 동안 편집에 임해 왔다; 그 편집은 여전히 매우 되돌아가기 힘든 것 같다(1RR 제한의 위반에 대해서는 알지 못하지만).나는 이 편집자에 대한 지속적인 1RR 제한으로 프로젝트가 해를 입었다는 설득력 있는 주장을 본 적이 없다. 즉, '광장의 키스'와 너무 많이 들리는 '잘못된' 버전에 대한 우려에도 불구하고 말이다.TenOfAllTraes(대화) 04:05, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
Haphaestus123의 불합리하고 파괴적인 편집
나는 이 사람에게 그가 극좌 정치와 극우 정치에서 해온 일에 대해 여러 번 경고했지만, 지금 정말로 누군가가 개입할 필요가 있다.그는 나치가 모든 학문적 학문을 무시하고 "좌파"라고 주장하면서 온갖 터무니없는, 비위키화된 헛소리를 덧붙이고 있다.
그는 지난 몇 시간 동안 세 번의 파괴적인 편집 경고를 받았다.
-- 브라이온모리건 (대화) 03:25, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 3일간 차단. m.o.p 05:13, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
업무 중단 편집기, 사물을 들을 수 없음
사용자:BruceWHain은 C가 부과한 24시간 블록에서 방금 벗어났다.모든 정당한 이유들로 프레드: 우선, 루쵸의 편집-전쟁, 그러한 것들이 어떻게 작동하는지에 대한 설명을 들은 후에 그 기사의 토크를 엉망으로 만들거나, 기사의 소유권을 가져다가 전체적으로 "협조적인" 아이디어로 그들의 뒤를 닦는 것 등.블록이 이미 끝난 후(시간을 정확히 알 수 있다면) 그들은 다시 IP 주소인 70.107.161.46(토크 · 기여 · WHOIS)에서 그 장소를 재메시지하기 위해 돌아가 기사나 개인 소유물인 것처럼 대화 페이지를 재배열했다.너는 역사를 살펴봐야 한다. 가난한 비욘드 마이 켄이 성인의 인내심을 가지고 무엇을 다루어야 하는지를.브루스는 분명히 이해하지 못하지만, 내가 트랙패드에서 미끄러져 "무시하게" 칠 수도 있기 때문에, 내가 그들을 차단하고 싶지는 않다.게다가, 나는 BMK가 여기서 하는 일에 대해 대단한 감사를 가지고 있고 다른 사람을 존중하지 않는 편집자에 대한 존경심이 거의 없기 때문에 관여하고 있다.적어도 나는 최소한 무참한 행정관이 몇 마디 엄한 말과 일주일간의 봉쇄를 하는 것을 보고 싶다. 아니면 BMK와 내가 미쳤다는 것, 그 프로젝트가 협력적이지 않다는 것, MOS를 땅에 있는 구멍에서 알 수 없었던 누군가가 기사를 소유할 수 있다는 것을 나에게 말해주고 싶다.드레이미스 (토크) 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC) 16:09[
- 설명:나는 어느 블록도 강요하지 않았다; 팁토티와 빌킨스는 그렇게 했다.—C.Fred (대화) 16:17, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 나도 오늘 아침 기분이 좋아.너무 즐거워서 나 자신에게 질문을 던졌지, 이 최신 블록이 브루스에게 씌워졌나?WHain은 기사에 더 이상의 혼란을 막기 위해 또는 그의 이전 행동과 사용자 대화에서의 논평에 대해 그를 처벌하기 위해 부과되었는가?브루스웨인/샌드박스 '조정 신청서' 초안 작성하는 곳?만약 우리가 그를 차단하려면, 나는 그가 참여할 수 있는 그의 토크 페이지에서 그가 좋은 편집자지만 잘못된 편집자이고 완전히 좋은 편집자로 바뀔 수 있다는 희망에서 그가 참여할 수 있는, 그가 좋은 스타일의 매뉴얼, 협업과 합의, 기사 소유권 등에 대한 토론이 열릴 필요가 있다고 생각한다.—C.Fred (대화) 16:53, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 브루스웨인은 이 프로젝트에 순 긍정적일 가능성이 분명히 있다.그는 연구할 줄도 알고, 글도 만족스러우니(조금 개인적이면) 간척노력은 보람이 있을 것이라고 생각한다.핵심적인 문제는 아직까지도 그가 프로젝트의 핵심 가치를 이해하는 것을 눈치채지 못했다는 점이다. 더 나쁜 것은 (현 시점에서) 시도하려는 경향이 없는 것 같다는 것이다.누군가 그 장벽을 뚫을 수 있다면 나머지는 쉬워야 한다.두어 번 시도해 보았지만, 이쯤 되면 그는 분명히 나를 자신의 적수로 보고 있기 때문에 내가 다시 도전하는 것은 역효과가 날 것이다.나는 다른 사람들에게 한번 해보라고 권한다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 18:49, 2011년 11월 5일 (UTC)[
- 그는 오늘 한 메시지에서 "나는 또한 당신이 그것에 대해 나에게 상의하기 전까지는 당신의 서버에 있는 기사를 더 이상 편집하거나 분산시키지 말아 줄 것을 요청하겠다"고 말했다."[99] 나는 그의 추가 동의가 필요하지 않다고 대답했다. 그는 이미 기사에 글을 추가했을 때 그것을 주었다.그리고 나서 나는 그를 CC-BY-SA 3.0 면허증과 GFDL로 다시 가리켰다. 그의 대답은 다음과 같을 것이다: 만약 그가 기사에 대한 소유권/통제를 계속 주장한다면, 그는 단지 그것을 얻지 못할 수도 있다. 그리고 그는 아마도 내가 코멘트 끝에 한 충고를 받아들여야 할 것이다. 그가 위키피디아의 규칙을 지키지 못할 경우 게시할 다른 사이트를 찾아야 할 것이다.—C.Fred (대화) 14:16, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 동의한다. 좋든 나쁘든 간에, 우리는 협업의 틀을 가지고 있다. 그것은 10년 동안 3백만 개 이상의 기사를 만드는 데 상당히 효과적이었다.편집자들은 그 틀 안에서 일해야 하는데, 이는 기사 레이아웃과 토크 페이지 사용에 관한 우리의 규약을 준수하고, 그들의 기여의 미래에 대한 우리의 라이선스의 결과를 이해하는 것을 의미한다.브루스와의 일은 분명히 잘못되었다.하지만 우리는 그가 그것을 받아들이게 되면서 그가 무심코 그 프로젝트를 방해하는 것을 막아야 할 의무가 있다.공은 그의 코트에 있다. 다음 블록은 같은 행동을 위해 앞으로 나아가야 할 것이며, 무기한이어야 한다. 그리고 그가 여기서 협업이 어떻게 이루어질지에 대한 그의 이해를 증가시켰다는 확실한 증거에 근거하여 그것을 해제해야 한다.Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 09:45, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
블록 필요...
...Norns Critting 동성애 (토크 · 기여)와 유사한 새로운 양말을 위하여.『야구 벅스 당근→ 00:06, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
존스턴어1993년 법적 위협
사용자:Jonstoner1993은 내가 편집한 내용 중 일부를 번복한 것에 대해 불쾌감을 느낀 것으로 보이며, 그의 사용자 페이지에 법적 위협을 남겼다.그는 또한 편집한 내용을 되돌리는 엄청난 위반에 대해 내 강연 페이지에 인신공격 몇 가지를 퍼부었다.누가 이것 좀 봐 주시겠습니까?Falcon8765 07:24, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그의 갑작스런 VOA로의 전환과 결합되어 (그리고 그 이전의 편집은, 내내 매우 의심스러웠다("인생" 대 "죽음"이라고 생각하는 것이 오타였는가?c'mnn..) 및 분명한 WP:역량 문제, 변명의 여지 - 부시 레인저One ping only 07:49, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
사용자:폴러&폴러
나는 파울러&파울러의 행동에 상당히 압도당했다.어제 그는 사이프 알리 칸에 대해 일련의 편집을 했는데, 완벽하게 관련되고 소싱된 정보('쓰레기'라고 부름)를 삭제하고 7개 정도의 문제가 있는 기사에 "다중 문제" 태그를 추가했는데, 내가 보기에 이 문제는 어디에서도 볼 수 없다.그는 그 일을 하기 전이나 후에 어떤 논의도 시작하지 않았다.편집 요약에 "쓰레기"를 어떻게 제거했는지 알 수 없어 이 정보는 완벽히 관련성이 있고, 소싱이 되어 있다. 이런 거대한 템플릿 블록을 추가하기 전에, 당신이 지적할 수 없는 한 나는 이러한 문제를 볼 수 없으니, 토론하십시오."
결국 이용자는 내가 반달인 것처럼 굴려주었는데, 그것은 용납할 수 없는 일이다.그는 "파타우디의 나왑"의 추가는 믿을 만한 출처(?)로 소싱되었음에도 불구하고 정확하지 않고 "없었다"고 말하는 토크 페이지로 눈을 돌렸으며 다른 출처와의 주장을 뒷받침하지 않았다.하지만 그는 왜 "여러 문제" 태그를 추가했는지 설명하려고 애쓰지 않았다.그것은 그에 대한 나의 대답이다.나는 너의 개입을 요청한다.샤히드 • 14:07, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 오, 사과하는 사람들이 뭐라고 할지.인도 프로젝트인 Wikipedia_talk에서 열어 본 스레드를 확인하십시오.알림판_for_인도 관련_토픽스#The_10th_and_Present_Nawab 및 Talk에 대한 내용:사이프 알리 칸Fowler&fowler«Talk » 14:54, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)[
그래, 네 말이 맞아.샤히드와 살비오에게 사과할게Fowler&fowler«Talk » 15:42, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)[
- 위키피디아의 즐거움 중 하나는 예상치 못한 곳으로 여러분을 이끈다는 것이다.그래서, 나는 몇 분 전에 그 배우가 자신을 나왑이라고 생각하지 않는다는 것을 발견했다.뉴스 보도에서 나온 그는 샤히드가 나왑으로 임명하기 위해 사용한 같은 신문의 전 나왑인 것에 대해 기뻐하고 있다.질문에 대답하자면: "10월 31일, 당신은 파타우디의 다음 나왑이 될 것인가?" 그 배우는 말한다.
1971년 인도 정부는 왕실의 직함을 인정받지 못했다.나워브와 마하라자의 호칭은 더 이상 인도 정부에 의해 인정되지 않는다.그리고 당연히 그렇다.우리는 민주주의 국가고 나는 내가 어떤 국가나 신체를 통치하는 것에 대해 어떠한 오해도 받고 있지 않다.그저 전통의식일 뿐이다.마을 사람들로부터 호칭과 의식을 받는 한, 그들은 파지를 묶는 것에 대해 감상적이다.아마도 그것은 상징적인 것이다.그런대로 나는 파타우디와 많은 인연이 있다.나는 그곳에서 많은 시간을 보냈고 그곳을 매우 사랑하지만, 어느 순간도 나를 나왑이라고 생각하지 않는다.
내가 번복을 잘못한 것에 대해 다시 한 번 사과하며 내 사건을 종결시킨다.Fowler&fowler«Talk » 16:09, 2011년 11월 6일(UTC)[
- 댓글을 달다.다만 파울러가 롤백을 사용하는 데 더 신중했어야 하는 반면, 그가 취한 다른 어떤 행동도 부적절했다고 생각하지 않는다.기사에 대한 그의 변화는 먼저 의무적인 토크 페이지 토론을 지시할 만큼 충분히 과격한 것이 아니었다.대담하게 편집한 것이 바로 이 백과사전이다.누군가가 샤히드를 WP로 가리켜야 한다.BRD. 바살리스크 berate½ 23:16, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 구체적인 이유를 밝히지 않은 채 소스 정보를 제거하고 이를 '쓰레기'라고 부르는 것은 용납할 수 없다.샤히드 • 2011년 11월 6일 23:38 (UTC)[
- ANI 보고서도 가치가 없어Fowler가 내용을 삭제해야 할 타당한 이유가 있다는 것을 이미 확인했으므로, 당신이 효과적으로 하고 있는 것은 부적절한 편집 요약에 대한 ANI 논의를 시작하는 것이다.만약 내가 부적절한 편집 요약을 발견할 때마다 보고서를 만든다면, 우리는 사소한 분쟁을 다루기 위해 완전히 새로운 게시판을 열어야 할 것이다..oh wait.바살리스크립트inspect damage berate01:46, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 구체적인 이유를 밝히지 않은 채 소스 정보를 제거하고 이를 '쓰레기'라고 부르는 것은 용납할 수 없다.샤히드 • 2011년 11월 6일 23:38 (UTC)[
살비오의 가정은 틀렸다.이것은 일회성 사건이 아니다.단순한 경고는 계속적인 문제를 의미할 뿐이다.이 사용자는 다른 사용자를 롤백하는 버릇이 있다.대상이 IP 주소인지, 베테랑 위키백과 사용자인지는 중요하지 않다.이 사용자가 리턴버튼을 사용할 수 있는 유일한 기준은 반대 견해를 가진 뉴스 기사나 책을 제작하거나 사용자가 논쟁에서 지고 있다는 것이다.최근 2~3주 동안만 해도 25차례 이런 행동을 보였다.사용자는 토론 탭, 심지어 다른 사람이 서명한 텍스트 내부에서도 이렇게 한다.이것은 불공평하고 괴롭힘처럼 보인다.몇 가지 예:
- 사용자 제거 및 편집에 되돌리기 버튼 사용:닉쿨의 논평
- 사용자 제거에 되돌리기 버튼 사용:망고원 댓글
- 반대 뷰 점을 음소거하려면 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- "토론 실행 중"의 편집 요약을 무시하여 되돌리기 버튼 사용.당신은 당신의 변덕에 따라 인용문을 지울 수 없다.편집자가 응답하고 토론이 끝날 때까지 기다리십시오."
- 인도보다 파키스탄을 선호하는 견해를 표현하기 위해 리턴 버튼 사용
- 통신 없이 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 통신 없이 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 통신 없이 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 통신 없이 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 반인도 및 친(親)파키스탄 보기에 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 통신 없이 되돌리기 버튼 사용
- 구르가온의 불량 사진만 보여줘 역이용 잘못(1회)
- 구르가온의 불량 사진만 보여줘 역이용 오용(2회)
- 구르가온의 불량 사진만 보여주는 리버스(3회)를 잘못 사용
- 구르가온의 불량 사진만 보여줘 역이용 잘못(4회)
- 기본 이미지에 대해 되돌리기 버튼을 사용하는 데 되돌리기 잘못 사용
- 컨센서스 또는 토론을 무시하기 위해 되돌리기 버튼을 잘못 사용
사용자는 의견 불일치가 있는 기사에 부정확한 "여러 가지 문제" 노트를 추가함으로써 중단적인 방식으로 행동한다.
이것은 눈에 띄지 않게 된 것은 아니다.이 ANI에 참여하는 관리자는 사용자에게 하나의 문서에서 여러 이슈 노트를 삭제하도록 요청하였다.[104]
사용자는 부적절한 탐사에 빠져있다.약 20명의 사용자에게 공지사항을 붙여넣은 2011년 10월 13일의 예를 참조하십시오.
- 라비찬다르84 - [105]
- 스페이스맨스파이프 - [106]
- 소다보틀 - [107]
- Ncmvocalist - [108]
- 칩문크다비스 - [109]
- MikeLynch - [110]
- AshLin - [111]
- Abhishek191288 - [112]
- Sitush - [113]
- Qwyrxian - [114]
- MatthewVanitas - [115]
- AnimeshKulkarni - [116]
- 저거너트 - [117]
- 망고원 - [118]
- 야넷도이 - [119]
- Redtigerxyz - [120]
- 등록공원 - [121]
- Pfly - [122]
- Nikul - [123]
이러한 현재 진행 중인 문제를 해결하기 위해서는 신속하고 엄정하며 장기적인 조치가 필요하다. 173.164.222.106 (대화) 07:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 링크 고마워.지난번 파울러의 편집본을 연구했을 때, 나는 잘못된 변화로부터 백과사전적인 기사를 뒷받침하는 훌륭한 작품을 보았다.위의 링크들 중 Fowler가 기사에 문제를 일으키는 것을 보여주는 것이 있는지 주목해 주시겠습니까?조누니크 (대화) 07:38, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
곤충 전쟁 편집
곤충(토크 히스토리 링크 감시 로그 편집)에서는 리드 섹션에 특정 자료를 추가하는 것에 대해 다소 정원 다양성 편집 전쟁이 벌어지고 있다.신규 사용자 Pszczola-osa(대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)와 Getbee(대화 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 블록 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 일관되게 선호 버전으로 되돌아가며, 열망보다는 실질적인 논의를 하지 않았다.다른 편집자와 위키백과 과정에 대해서.내가 관여했기 때문에 나는 스스로 조치를 취하는 것이 불편해서 이 문제를 ANI에 가져왔다.특히 두 계정의 스타일과 기여도가 오리시험이 적용되는 것과 충분히 유사하며, 위키백과가 수용할 수 있는 스타일과 형태로 기여를 할 수 있도록 이를 통과시킬 수 있는 제안이 있는 사람이 있는가?Eluchil404 (대화) 22:45, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 이런 일은 새로운 편집자와 관리자 사이에서 종종 일어나는데, 대개는 중간에서 만나거나 관련된 편집자들을 달래기 위해 토론하는 방식으로 이런 문제들을 처리하는 방법이 있다.내가 한 일이고, 내 생각에 문제는 해결되었고 더 이상의 갈등의 필요성은 회피되었다.Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 03:20, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 그러길 바라지만, 이 dif [124]가 나를 괴롭히는 것이다.너는 그를 중간에서 만나려고 노력했고 그는 그냥 되돌아간다.아마도, 나는 새로운 사용자가 되기에는 너무 거리가 멀지만, 위키피디아의 과정과 규칙이 비잔틴적이고 비이성적으로 보일 수 있다는 것을 확실히 기억한다.그럼에도 불구하고, 용납할 수 없는 상태로 4일 동안 매일 되돌아가서 내가 만약 편집자 자격으로 분쟁에 관여하지 않았다면, 나는 최종 경고, 중지 또는 저지 당했을 것이다.Eluchil404 (대화) 04:56, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
세라핀(토크 · 기여)의 양말로서 두 계정을 모두 차단함: 요한 지에르존의 전형적인 편집 전쟁.Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:41, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
대학 과정?
여기가 이걸 어디서 가져와야 하는지는 확실하지 않지만, 어떤 사람들은 그것이 아니라면 항상 손가락질을 할 수 있다.이 사용자들은 71.58.94.186에 기여하고 있으며, 더 구체적으로 그들의 편집 요약이 나를 궁금하게 만들었다."이 조각에 덧붙여 요새 월튼 마운드는 소금물 위에 있는 가장 큰 마운드다.특정 대학 과정 과제에 대해 이 기사의 타당성을 더했다."이 IP는 적어도 작년에 25 또는 30이어야 하는 것 중 하나이며, 펜실베니아 주립대학 근처에서 편집한 것들이다.그들은 모두 아메리카 원주민 주제에서 편집하고 비슷한 편집 습관을 보인다. (이 때문에 내가 여러 개의 이름 있는 accts를 포함하게 된다.)이 편집자 또는 보다 가능성이 높은 편집자는 편집된 요약이나 대화 페이지 메시지에 절대 응답하지 않으며, 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우, 매우, 매우, 매우, 거의 어떤 추가 사항도 인용하려고 시도하지 않는다.인용을 시도했던 몇몇은 모방범인 것으로 밝혀졌다.만약 대학수업이 학생들에게 여기서 편집을 지시하는 것이라면 이에 대해 구체적으로 어떤 조치가 취해질 수 있는 것은 없을까?아니면 내가 계속 왁자지껄하게 놀면서 한 번도 출처를 알리지 않은 메시지를 남기는 것일까?헤이로 04:31, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 계속 WP에 문의해 보십시오.SUP 및 WP:WOA, 편집 내용을 계속 되돌리십시오.만약 그것이 대학 과정이라면, 학생들은 교수에게 이것을 규정대로 하도록 해야 할 것이라고 말했다.내 의심은 교수님이 아마 일을 제대로 하고 계실 것이고, 학생들은 그저 반쪽짜리일 뿐이다.거의 모든 경우에 이런 일이 어디서 일어나는지, 우리가 교수님께 연락하면, 그들이 이미 충분히 알고 있고/또는 이미 제대로 일을 하고 있다는 것이 분명해지지만, 학생들은 개별적으로 일을 망치고 있다.대학생들이 과제를 반쯤 떠맡고 회피하려는 것은 전례가 없는 행동이다. --Jayron32 04:42, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 앞으로 그 링크들을 남겨두려고 노력하겠지만, 내가 말했듯이, 지금까지 그들 중 누구와도 단 한 번의 실제 대화도 하지 않았으니, 오렌지색 메시지 배너가 무엇을 의미하는지조차 그들이 알고 있는지 알 수 없다.게다가, 각각의 편집은 기껏해야 4에서 8번 정도 하고, 그러다 죽어서, 몇 달 후에 한 두 번 더 편집하기 위해 되돌아오는 경우도 있다.그리고 많은 IP들이 관련되어 있다, 으으으으으으으으.한동안 명단을 작성하다가 20명 정도 올라갔는데, 1년 전 일인데, 그게 다 죽어서 아무 말도 없이 그냥 놔뒀어.하지만 최근 그것은 백업하기 시작했고, 이것이 실제로 그것이 과정의 일부일 수도 있는 첫번째 것이다.헤이로 04:50, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
킹 제임스 그게 뭐든 간에
| 최고의 편집자가 작업을 위해 하지 않았을지도 모르지만, 마감은 좋았다.여기서는 행정 개입이 필요 없다. |
|---|
| 다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오. |
| 누가 여기 RM좀 봐줄래?토크:제임스_VI_and_I#Compromise_제안_to_Requested_Move:_James_VI_and_I. 이것에 대해 가장 적절한 근접성이 무엇인지는 모르겠지만, RM 토론을 끝내지 않고 관련 관리자가 갑자기 페이지를 넘기는 것은 상당히 적절하다고 생각한다(지금 일어난 일은 상당히 적절하다고 생각한다. 고마워.-이전IP (대화) 14:15, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
관련 편집자(관리자도 아닌)가 ANI에 넘겨진 후 마무리 작업을 하기에는 상당히 빈약한 형식이며, 논쟁의 여지가 있는 마무리 작업에는 일반적으로 (승리의 탄성이 아니라) 설명이 수반되어야 한다.그럼에도 불구하고, 그 주장들은 그 움직임을 지지하는 것처럼 보인다.Chris Cunningham (사용자:thumperward) - 토크 15:28, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
|
나 정말 문제가 생겼어
Advaita Vedanta의 토크 페이지에서 나는 근본주의자들에 대항하여 위키피디아의 중립적인 관점을 옹호해야 한다.이용자는 원론주의 서적을 공공연히 인용하고 있으며, 학술적인 저작도 단 한 편도 하지 않고 있다.비유를 들자면 기독교 위키백과 페이지에 있는 유대인의 뿌리에 대한 모든 언급을 신나치주의적인 헛소리를 인용하면서 삭제하는 반(反) 반(反) 반(反) 반(反) 반(反)세미트일 것이다.이것은 콘텐츠 분쟁이 아니다. 72.92.11.182 (대화) 16:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 약간의 차이점이 도움이 될 것이다.←베이스볼 버그스카르티크What's up, Doc?→16:22, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 토크 페이지.72.92.11.182 (토크) 16:26, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[]만 보십시오
- 여기 재미있는 링크 하나가 있다.토크 페이지 기고: 없음.
- @IP라는 말은 기사의 토크로 돌아가야 한다는 것이다.여기 ANI에서 확대하기에는 너무 이르다.츄우우우히:2011년 11월 6일(UTC) 16:39, 세브 아즈86556> haneʼ[
- 그것은 또 다른 문제다.내가 어떻게 이 일에 말려들었을까?방금 이 사건들을 공정하게 보도하였다. 72.92.11.182 (대화) 16:43, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 사용자:비블브록스는 3일 동안 기사를 완벽하게 보호했다.사용자인 경우:Ramanatruth는 위키백과 편집에 대한 그의 태도를 곧 수정하지 않는다. 그는 향후 관리자 게시판을 방문할 것 같다.에드존스턴 (토크) 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC) 16:57 [
- 돌아선 건 너지?그것은 단지 '부분적인 오버'가 아니라 당신이 관여하고 있다는 것을 의미한다.나는 네가 잘못한 것이 없다고 말하는 것이 아니라, 어떤 논쟁에서든 너의 행동이 또한 정밀하게 다뤄지는 것이 당연하다는 것을 알아야 한다.닐 아인(토크) 19:49, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 그것은 또 다른 문제다.내가 어떻게 이 일에 말려들었을까?방금 이 사건들을 공정하게 보도하였다. 72.92.11.182 (대화) 16:43, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 토크 페이지.72.92.11.182 (토크) 16:26, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[]만 보십시오
- 나는 이 게시판에서 그들이 "sriramanamaharshi.org"에 연결된 것을 방금 알아차렸다.이것은 상당히 노골적인 행동이다. 72.92.11.182 (대화) 20:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 어떻게 해야 한다고 생각하나, 아직 안했는데? --‖ 에바베 - 연방정부 ‖ 20:29, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 모르몬교 창시자 조셉 스미스를 유대인 기사에 계속 끼워 넣는 사람에게 어떻게 할 것인가?72.92.11.182 (대화) 22:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[하라
- 어떻게 해야 한다고 생각하나, 아직 안했는데? --‖ 에바베 - 연방정부 ‖ 20:29, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
- 나는 이 게시판에서 그들이 "sriramanamaharshi.org"에 연결된 것을 방금 알아차렸다.이것은 상당히 노골적인 행동이다. 72.92.11.182 (대화) 20:18, 2011년 11월 6일 (UTC)[
나는 6년째 Advaita Vedanta를 읽고 연습하고 있다.네가 원한다면 릭스 베다의 구절을 인용할 수 있고 나는 그 주제에 대한 많은 책을 읽었다.페이지에 유효한 내용을 제시하고자 한다.--Ramanatruth (대화) 20:46, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
왜 나를 원리주의자처럼 부르지?Advaita Vedanta에서 차분하게 토론해 볼 수 있는 토크 페이지가 있다.--Ramanatruth (대화) 20:46, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
공공 기물 파손, 근본주의자 등을 외치기 전에 내가 지적하는 간단한 오류에 유의하십시오.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta 페이지
섹션 마하카브야
1 प्रज्ञानं ब्रह्म (Prajñānam brahma) Consciousness is Brahman aitareya Rig Veda--Ramanatruth (talk) 21:27, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
이제 릭 베다가 언제 쓰여졌는지, 부처가 언제 태어났는지 비교만 하면 된다.--라마나트루트 (토크) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
Rig Veda 1700–1100 BC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda--Ramanatruth (대화) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
기원전 563년 ~ 기원전 483년 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha--Ramanatruth (토크) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
Adi Sankara a Advaita 교사는 그의 가르침에 불교적인 예를 사용했을지도 모른다.현대의 Advaita 교사들은 다른 종교들로부터 자유롭게 인용한다.나는 불교가 Advaita 가르침에 미치는 영향에 대해 논쟁하고 있지 않다.--Ramanatruth (대화) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
나는 단지 불교에 대해 Advaita의 근원으로 토론하고 있을 뿐이다.--Ramanatruth (대화) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
내가 말했듯이 나는 지금 6년 동안 Advaita를 연습하고 있다.나는 Advaita 페이지에 있는 내용을 업데이트하러 왔다가 부처님 논란에 휩싸였다.솔직히 이 주장이 정리되는 동안 섹션은 생략하고 페이지의 다른 부분은 편집할 용의가 있다.--Ramanatruth (대화) 21:27, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
천연가스/오일 보고서 포스터
다른 편집자는 포스터 천연가스/오일 리포트에서 기사를 공백으로 만들려는 원저자의 최근 시도를 검토할 수 있는가? (토크 히스토리 편집으로 로그 보기 삭제 보호)
초기 기사는 AfD로 태그가 붙었고, 그 후 기사는 구조를 위해 태그가 붙었다.그 후 몇몇 편집자들은 그 기사를 정리하려고 노력했다.이때 원작자 편집자(Katya Foster (토크 · 기고)가 소유권 문제를 표시하기 시작하였고, 글의 빈칸을 이곳과 여기의 빈칸으로 계속 시도하였다.슬프게도, 나는 그 후 콩 속을 채울 가치가 있는 코멘트를 계속했는데, 그 때 나는 여러 편집자들이 소스를 추가하고 페이지에 내용을 변경하는 데 관여했기 때문에 그 시점에서 {{db-g7}}을(를) 사용할 수 없다고 언급하였다[127].그 다음 편집은 "나는 어떤 것도 편집하라고 요구하거나 초대하지 않았다. 따라서 이것은 적용되지 않는다." [128], 그리고 db-g7 태그를 여기와 여기에 적용하기 시작한다.
나는 CSD 태그를 제거했고, 그들의 토크 페이지에 있는 문제들을 설명하려고 시도했다.그러나, 편집자가 지금 내가 CsD 태그를 제거함으로써 그들의 토크 페이지에 공공 기물 파괴 행위를 고발하고 있기 때문에, 나는 여기서 다른 누군가에게 그 활동을 검토하게 해 주면 고맙겠다. -- 베어크 (대화 • 기여) - 05:05, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 참고: 내가 이 ANI의 편집자에게 알리러 갔을 때, 나는 그들의 가장 최근의 게시물이 "나는 여전히 이 페이지에 대한 모든 권리를 가지고 있다"고 언급했을 때 그들의 소유권 문제와 CC-BY-SA 3.0 면허를 이해하지 못하는 것을 발견했다."[129] ---- 베어크 (대화 • 기여) - 05:09, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
나는 페이지에 있는 모든 정보를 만들었다.다른 편집자들은 단순히 다른 것들을 움직였다.이제 그것은 아무 의미도 만들지 않고, 적용되지 않는 인용구들을 가지고 있고, 승진처럼 보인다.토론을 끝내고 (저자를 포함한) 다수가 원하는 대로 페이지를 삭제해야 할 때라고 생각한다.난 어떤 것도 파괴한 적이 없어그러나 나는 바렉에게 위협을 받았다.그는 내가 반란을 일으키는 사람이라고 말했고 그는 위키피디아에서 나를 차단하려고 노력할 것이라고 말했다.이런 유치한 불평으로 시간을 낭비하게 되어 유감이다.보시다시피, 나는 이 토론을 시작하지 않았다.시간을 내어 배려해주셔서 감사하다. --Katya Foster (토크) 05:18, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 참고로, Katya Foster의 마지막 건설적 편집에서 콘텐츠를 블랭킹하려고 시도한 시점까지의 버전을 비교한 내용은 이 링크에서 확인할 수 있다. -- Barek(토크 • 기여) - 05:41, 2011년 11월 7일(UTC)[
- 편집자인 Katya Foster는 AfD에 다소 지장을 주며, 이전의 의견을 삭제하려고 시도하고 있다. 즉, 토론이 분리되고 따라 하기 어렵게 만든다. 여러 번 투표(한 번 로그아웃되면 IP로서), 기본적으로 IDHT 방식의 행동을 보여준다.나는 AFD에 대한 그들의 심술궂은 말을 취소하고, 그들의 토크 페이지에 몇 개의 메시지를 남겼지만, 나는 그것이 도움이 될지 의심스럽다. 편집자는 분명히 기사를 소유하기를 원하고, 그녀는 그것을 삭제할 수 없기 때문에, 이제는 삭제하기를 원한다.
기사의 주제에 대해서는 특별한 의견은없지만(공고는어느 쪽으로든 갈 수있다, 내가 볼 수있는한),카티야 포스터는 정말로 자기 자신을 곤란에 빠뜨리기 전에 행동을 통제할 필요가 있다.비욘드 마이 켄 (토크) 06:46, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 편집자인 Katya Foster는 AfD에 다소 지장을 주며, 이전의 의견을 삭제하려고 시도하고 있다. 즉, 토론이 분리되고 따라 하기 어렵게 만든다. 여러 번 투표(한 번 로그아웃되면 IP로서), 기본적으로 IDHT 방식의 행동을 보여준다.나는 AFD에 대한 그들의 심술궂은 말을 취소하고, 그들의 토크 페이지에 몇 개의 메시지를 남겼지만, 나는 그것이 도움이 될지 의심스럽다. 편집자는 분명히 기사를 소유하기를 원하고, 그녀는 그것을 삭제할 수 없기 때문에, 이제는 삭제하기를 원한다.
- 참고: Four SPA 계정
3개가 오늘 오전 AfD에 도착(전반30분이내) - Barek(토크 • 기여) - 16:20, 2011년 11월 7일(UTC)[- 맛있어. 거기서 맛있는 콘핏 드 카나드 몇 인분을 만들기에 충분할 정도로 꽥꽥거려. --Saddhiama (토크) 17:00, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)
- 모든 계정이 차단되고 마스터는 위키백과에서 결과당 1주일간 차단됨:Sockpuppet 조사/Katya Foster.알렉산드리아 (대화) 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC) 18:46[
사용자:올리비아블론드: 지속적인 공격/분해
COI 및 Sockpuppetry로 의심되는 상황에서 PA(여기).이 기사는 중립화되었고 올바르게 소싱되었으며, 그 근거로 {{COI}}을(를) 제거하자는 합의가 발견되었다.그런 더 이상의 혼란을 피하는 것이 그 프로젝트에 유익할 것이다.Racconish 09:51 Tk , 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 당신은 "이것은 악의적이고 참을 수 없는 행동이며 고의적인 파괴 행위와 같다"고 언급하고 있는 것이지요?엄밀히 말하면 편집자는 당신이 아니라 당신의 행동에 대해 이야기하고 있다.너는 이미 그들의 토크 페이지에 PA 경고를 날렸고, 나는 네가 여기서 더 많은 관심을 끌 것이라고 생각하지 않는다.올리비아는 일주일 동안 기사를 편집하지 않았고, 그래서 나는 진짜, 블록 가치가 있는 혼란에 대한 증거도 별로 보지 못한다.물론 당신이 이미 토크 페이지에서 언급한 바와 같이 미팅의 가능성은 있지만, 그것이 반드시 여기서의 문제는 아니다.토크 페이지 코멘트는 무시하는 게 어때?드레이미스 (대화) 15:09, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 좋은 충고 고마워.한 블럭이면 너무 벅찰 것 같아.기사의 이력을 볼 때, 나는 적어도 AGF에 대한 부스터 샷 없이는 여기서 멈추지 않을 것이라고 걱정했지만, 나의 PA 경고로는 충분할 것이다.Racconish Tk 15:39, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
애런 버에서의 이상한 일들
이것은 매우 이상하지만, 10개 이상의 새로운 계정들이 지난 한 시간 동안 이 페이지를 독립적으로 편집한 것은 우연이 아니다.편집 내역을 확인하십시오.아마 같은 사람일 거야이상한 것은 그 중 어느 것도 공공 기물 파손으로 보이지 않기 때문에 편집 내용을 간단히 되돌리는 것이 망설여지고 이것이 정확히 WP를 위반하는 것인지는 확실치 않다는 점이다.SOCK, 비록 매우 이상하지만.--JOJ 18:49, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 학교 프로젝트일 수 있다. 즉, 기사를 개선하기 위해 여러 학생이 함께 작업한다.대충은 맞지만, 악의적인 설명만이 꼭 유일한 것은 아니다.WP에 따르면 그것은 무죄일 때도 있다.AGF. 계정 중 일부는 "우리"라고 말하고 있는데, 이것은 이 모든 것이 함께 작동하고 있다는 것을 의미할 수도 있다.나는 여기서 AGF에 마음이 기울어져 있고, 이것은 독립적인 편집자 그룹이며, 아마도 학생들이 이 작업을 강의실 프로젝트의 일부로 하고 있다고 말한다.아마 무작위로 따져서 직접 물어봐."이봐, 나는 이 이상한 상황을 알아차렸고, 나는 이것이 일종의 수업 프로젝트인지 궁금했어."와 같은 것을 말하라.그렇다면 교사/교수가 누구인지 물어보고 WP에 의뢰하십시오.SUP 또는 WP:WOA. --Jayron32 18:54, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- 학교 프로젝트가 생각났다.그러나 변경된 내용 중 어떤 것도 인용되거나 검증되지 않은 것으로 보인다.토크페이지에서 실을 뽑기 시작했지만 아직 반응이 없다.--JOJHutton 19:00, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[하라
- 대화 페이지에서 이 문제를 논의하기 위한 요청으로 계정을 핑킹해 보십시오. 고민은 타당하며, 현재 진행 상황을 파악하는 최선의 방법은 이러한 계정과 직접 통신하는 것입니다. --Jayron32 19:26, 2011년 11월 7일(UTC)[
- 학교 프로젝트가 생각났다.그러나 변경된 내용 중 어떤 것도 인용되거나 검증되지 않은 것으로 보인다.토크페이지에서 실을 뽑기 시작했지만 아직 반응이 없다.--JOJHutton 19:00, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[하라
- 내가 편집과 함께 보는 문제들 중 하나는 그들이 버어의 행동, 태도, 또는 의견에 대해 부정적인 것을 제거하고 있다는 것이다.그리고, 그의 역사에 결정적인 부정적인 것이 있다면, 그들은 그것이 그의 잘못이 아닌 것처럼 보이게 하기 위해 그것을 다시 쓰고 다른 사람들이 그를 공격하고 있다.이러한 종류의 편집은 명백하지는 않지만, 주제에 대한 기사에서 자세한 내용을 편집하고 화이트워싱하는 POV 편집과 매우 가깝다.실버스렌C 20:01, 2011년 11월 7일 (UTC)[
- I didn't notice that particularly, but that is a major concern. We can assume Good Faith only so far before it becomes time to just revert the whole day, back to an earlier version.--JOJHutton 20:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- 예를 들어, 그들은 결혼과 그의 사생아에 관한 가족 아래의 문단을 삭제했다.
- 최근, 아론 버 협회는 버의 하인인 메리 에몬스와 함께 버르의 사생아 두 명을 인정했다.루이사 샬롯은 1788년에 태어났고, 존 피에르 버르는 1792년에 태어났다.당시 버르는 여전히 테오도시아와 결혼생활을 하고 있었지만, 주 의회에 근무하면서 알바니에 있는 경우가 대부분이었다.이러한 주장을 검증할 수 있는 DNA 검사는 이 선에 남성 후예가 없기 때문에 불가능하다.
- And then there's a lot of added wording that seems POV-ish and not neutral. SilverserenC 20:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- One of them explained, "We added information about Burr's intellectual dependence on his daughter Theodosia, after reading Isenberg's novel for our college honors course."[130] Historical novels are probably poor sources, especially for controversial historical figures. NuclearWarfare has reverted much of the contributions from today. Will Beback talk 20:41, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- 예를 들어, 그들은 결혼과 그의 사생아에 관한 가족 아래의 문단을 삭제했다.
Help urgently needed on unblock-en-l - barnstars available
Who wants to earn some barnstars?
The unblock request mailing list, unblock-en-l@lists.wikimedia.org , is around for blocked users to appeal blocks when they do not know how or are unable to do so on-wiki. Unfortunately, and despite the fact that there are over 100 people subscribed to this list and receiving email from it, I am handling the vast majority of the requests this list receives completely by myself. It's been this way for a few weeks, before which User:DeltaQuad was the only one actively reviewing appeals. In short, we really really really need some help!
If you are not subscribed to this list and would like to assist with reviewing block appeals, please go to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/unblock-en-l and sign up. Why should you do so? Many of the people emailing us are trying to edit Wikipedia for the first time, but are unable to due to a rangeblock or autoblock on their IP address. By reviewing these appeals in a timely manner, you're helping new editors get started on Wikipedia. Furthermore, there's an added incentive for you...
For the remainder of the month of November, I am offering an Admin's Barnstar to anyone who handles at least 15 appeals send to this list. It may sound like a lot, but this list often receives more than a dozen appeals each day, so you're sure to get there quickly if you check your email regularly. Furthermore, the three admins other than myself who respond to the most appeals for the remainder of November will receive Bronze, Silver, and Gold Wiki Awards for their exceptional service. Fine print follows my signature.
If you want to help but aren't sure how, don't worry - subscribe and stick around for a bit. You'll find a lot of the emails we send are boilerplate text that you can copy from previous responses and then edit as needed. So sign up and help today! Hersfold (t/a/c) 00:24, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
Fine print: In order to receive credit towards either award, any response you send must be cc'd to the unblock mailing list per standard procedure. Each admin may only get credit once per appealing user; i.e., if you respond to an appeal asking for more information, you don't get credit for two appeals by responding again when they user sends the information you need. Also, except where replies are sent within a few minutes of each other, only the first admin to respond to a given stage of an appeal gets credit; i.e., if Admin A responds to a user's request, then Admin B sends another response an hour later, only Admin A is going to get credit because it had already been dealt with. List-only emails do not receive credit. You receive credit just for sending a useful response; you need not unblock (or decline to unblock) a user. Currently subscribed users are also eligible provided they actually start helping like DQ and I have been asking them to do for weeks :-P.
- Email is so quaint. There should be a hashtag for this instead.
ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 00:49, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
- I was tempted to toy around with that Twitter idea, but, given the average user's knowledge of our policy, I feel like 99% of the unblock requests would be "HELP WHY AM I BLOCKED #unblock-en-wp". Also, signing up for that mailing list. m.o.p 07:27, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
I actually have to echo this request, because the situation hasn't gotten better since I started to go on wikibreak. (And I don't have the tools anymore, so my help is sometimes not enough) I see unblock requests on wiki dealt with in hours, where as just later yesterday (and no pressure on Hersfold here) I saw a backlog of about 15-20 emails that had not been responded to in 4 days. This is really shocking personally that there is such a backlog. As Newyorkbard echoed just a while ago on ANI, this list needs attention, and we have gotten new members, but very few have stepped up for the few emails that have been handled by others. I have a statistical document that I have upload that shows just how bad things are getting. This file is not 100% accurate, but add or subtract a bit of salt to these numbers and they should be fine. Also note the last page is not specifically unblock-en-l requests, but all emails (not that the numbers would be affected much without). Some of the ridiculous statistics include:
- In october, there were 34 requests that took over a week to respond to. (That's from when I started to take a break from the list)
- ~21% of requests are taking over 3 days to get responses.
- Since May 19th, 157 requests have been left not responded to.
Please any admins who can help at this time, we need you! Not sure how to start replying to emails? use the templates. -- DQ (t) (e) 14:09, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
- You could just unblock the backlog and everything will be fine. If they really deserve it they will be banned again by the same admins. Anyway, keep up the good work! 84.107.153.57 (talk) 00:57, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
Can somebody explain why we have this mailing list at all, apart of for the rare cases of locked talk pages or private information? The {{unblock}} method works pretty fast, and if somebody really can't figure out how to use {{unblock}}, they probably aren't competent enough to edit Wikipedia in any event. Wouldn't it be better to deprecate the mailing list and just tell people to use the template except in the abovementioned cases? Sandstein 09:10, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- I have to disagree that people who do not have the 'knowledge' on how to use a template should be not allowed to edit the wiki. I mean we are already inconveniencing them (like I said a lot of collateral damage goes through the list) by blocking them, so we should be trying to help them, not have them jumping through loopholes. It does not take a person that knows how to deal with WP templates to edit and article. So it would not really be better to get rid of the mailing list. Also as I realized while typing below, people would have to give out their email addresses for us to create accounts on wiki for them, so they would have to be posted publicly which is inappropriate in my view. Note there is also an interface in development so we can keep track of the unhanded requests and hopefully deal with them in a more timely manner. (which would also allow admins not to reveal there email) -- DQ (t) (e) 06:33, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm going to go ahead and follow the "There are no stupid questions" maxim that my teachers taught me, and thus open myself up to ridicule when 5 people tell me how easily I could have answered my own question. Could someone please point a (relatively) new admin like myself to the relevant policy/procedure pages we would need to understand in order to handle unblock requests generated because of autoblock and rangeblock problems? I see requests of this type using the unblock template, but have really no idea how to handle them, and for the life of me can't figure out what I even need to be looking at in order to determine what to do in these cases. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Request seconded. The instructions on WP:Autoblock don't work. DangerHigh voltage! 21:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Rangeblocks are talked about here. But your right, the documentation is currently insufficient. Rangeblocks are put out for usually handling the blocked editors, but the most common examples I see with rangeblocks are {{anonblock}} and {{checkuserblock}}. Now generally if they email the list for anon blocks, are checking to make sure the block is what it is, and then asking them for a username they wish, and creating an account for them allowing them to override the softblock (also known as anon. only block). We create the account via Special:UserLogin, not entering a password, but creating it "by email". And let them know that they will get something by email. Now since this requires an email, for privacy reasons it's normally (from onwiki) sent to the account creation project. Now with {{checkuserblock}}s, even on the list, we send them right to the account creation project linked above, where then a checkuser looks over the private information (IP and useragent data) and tries to determine if it's the same user, if not, an account is created for them.
- For autoblocks, since they last 24 hours they are very volatile time wise in nature. If you think that the IP that has the autoblock is dynamic enough in nature, it should be unblocked, by using the Autoblock number (which the user has to give to you) and unblocking that (instead of an actual IP). I would check using the Special:BlockList to make sure it's not a major sockpuppet that your unblocking the IP for. I should probably create a documentation page and might be able to get to that this weekend, but I hope this explains it for you. If it is the affected person, decline them, point them to the user talk page, tell them to log back in, but also try and help them understand the block before they are sent to an unblock request. Let me know if you guys need further clarification. -- DQ (t) (e) 06:33, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Request seconded. The instructions on WP:Autoblock don't work. DangerHigh voltage! 21:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Sockpuppet abuse by User:Jeremychen1
Just wanted to draw attention to the newly created article Jeremery which was created by User:Jeremychen1. This seems highly likely to be a sockpuppet account of Fornevermore, see evidence at: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Fornevermore. Given the behavior of the other accounts operated by Fornevermore and the lack of sources for the article, I suspect Jeremery is a hoax. I've tagged it as a Prod, but I'd like a second opinion. Many thanks, Sparthorse (talk) 23:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Looks fairly obvious to me, given the prior sock User:Jeremychen. I've added it to SPI. The article is up for a well deserved speedy. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Blocked. WilliamH (talk) 01:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This may also be a case of identity theft. Bearian (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- It might be a compromised account becuase, it may be known to others. --Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 01:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This may also be a case of identity theft. Bearian (talk) 01:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Blocked. WilliamH (talk) 01:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Mailinator addresses
Over the past week, I have received about 150 offensively racist messages via Wikipedia email, from accounts registered with Mailinator addresses. Other editors have reported such abuse from the same accounts.[131] These accounts appear to have made no actual edits to Wikipedia, only to have misused the mailing facility. Is there any way to block autoregistration from such accounts, or at least to prevent them using Wikipedia email to send such filth to other editors? RolandR (talk) 12:27, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- All the editors listed in the sockpuppet investigation you linked had their IP blocked and had their e-mail privilege removed, so they can't send you e-mails anymore (unless you e-mailed them back and disclosed your e-mail address). If there are additional sockpuppets sending you e-mails, you may want to list them on that report for investigating. — Moeε 13:53, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe; but this was after they had sent 150 emails to me, and a further 150 to another editor. There may well be other targets, about whom we haven't yet heard. And further such accounts can easily be created. It is obvious that the only purpose of using a Mailinator address to create an account which makes no edits to Wikipedia but immediately starts sending large numbers of emails, is to misuse the mailing facility. There should be some sort of filter to monitor and prevent this. RolandR (talk) 14:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- RolandR makes a valid point. There's no reason for us to allow accounts to set a Mailinator email address (or any of the Mailinator alternate domains). Even if a legitimate editor wanted to do so, it shouldn't be allowed, as Mailinator accounts and messages aren't password protected. (Meaning that anyone could reset the password on a Mailinator user's Wikipedia account.) Does a blacklist exist for email domains, or is this going to have to go to Bugzilla? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
- While I agree I would note it may not be easy. AFAIK mailinator purposely doesn't post a list of their domains to make blacklisting more difficult, although they don't stop scraping [132] [133]. (I also wonder if WHOIS info could reveal most alternative domains.) And there are plenty of mailnator alternatives. Having used such services in the past (not for wikipedia) I can say it's usually fairly trivial to block them. Treating them like we treat Tor and open proxies, blocking them when they are used will probably work in making difficult enough that many will give up but I wonder how long before we get there. It was suggested in the past to limit the ability to send emails to autoconfirmed users or some other status, I don't know if a suggestion was ever added to bugzilla. Nil Einne (talk) 08:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
After 6 years on wikipedia, I have now just switched off my email -enabling. This after having received some 130-150 emails these last few days, telling me how much the sender is looking forward to killing/exterminating "my kind". See here, & here. I am not very technical, but I truly do not understand why wikipedia empower such people? Discussion/bulletin-boards that I know off, normally have a rule that you have to have posted x number of posts, before you can contact other members directly. This of course does not protect other members fully, but at least raises the threshold for sending the kind of threats Roland, I, and others have experienced. Why cannot wikipedia do something similar? To limit the ability to send emails to autoconfirmed users: I would have thought that should be a minimum. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 08:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wikipedia already limits mail access to autoconfirmed accounts. The problem is that this still a deliberately low barrier, set only high enough to prevent the simplest mass destruction. It's not clear that there's a simple fix here, unless we want to declare that throwaway email accounts are no longer valid for registration (and then you've opened a fresh can of worms based on where the threshold between "permanent" and "throwaway" lies). Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 09:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I thought that you had to make a minimum number of edits to Wikipedia in order to become autoconfirmed. But the accounts sending these abusive emails to me and Huldra, and earlier to other editors,[134][135] have not made any edits. As I comment above, a new account making no edits, but sending huge quantities of emails (over 100 to each of us) is obviously here only to abuse the system, not to edit constructively. It ought to be simple to filter this out. RolandR (talk) 10:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Or rangeblock the underlying IPs if possible, assuming they aren't open proxies, and run a CU to catch any more potential sleeper accounts. Log actions (such as creating a new account) can and do leave a paper trail for Checkusers. —Jeremy v^_^vComponents:V S M 20:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Several IPs made abusive edits to an article, identical in content to the emails I received. So it is possible to identify them, for purposes of checking and blocking.[136] NB we are talking about JarlaxleArtemis here.RolandR (talk) 21:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I was under the impression from previous discussions autoconfirmed was not required for email access and if we wanted that, we needed a developer to implement it (i.e. it wasn't something that could simple be turned on and off at the current time). Although I may be remembering wrong about the developer part, perhaps that was the CAPTCHA requirement proposal. In any case, if an autoconfirmed requirement for mail is supposed to have been implemented since then or was implemented before then, it's broken, so someone should definitely file a bugzilla in that case. I just created User:lastwhileTA348522 (if your lastwhile was the captcha, TA stands for test account and the number was typed 'randomly'), confirmed my email address and sent a mail to myself (i.e. this account) and it worked. All done in about 3 minutes. BTW, remember an email address is not required for registration, it's only required for password recovery (i.e. to help protect an account), to send emails and if you want to receive emails like when your user page is updated. Nil Einne (talk) 15:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Several IPs made abusive edits to an article, identical in content to the emails I received. So it is possible to identify them, for purposes of checking and blocking.[136] NB we are talking about JarlaxleArtemis here.RolandR (talk) 21:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Or rangeblock the underlying IPs if possible, assuming they aren't open proxies, and run a CU to catch any more potential sleeper accounts. Log actions (such as creating a new account) can and do leave a paper trail for Checkusers. —Jeremy v^_^vComponents:V S M 20:21, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I thought that you had to make a minimum number of edits to Wikipedia in order to become autoconfirmed. But the accounts sending these abusive emails to me and Huldra, and earlier to other editors,[134][135] have not made any edits. As I comment above, a new account making no edits, but sending huge quantities of emails (over 100 to each of us) is obviously here only to abuse the system, not to edit constructively. It ought to be simple to filter this out. RolandR (talk) 10:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- My mistake, then. It certainly seems sensible to require it, if only because experience has shown that Grawp will continue to escalate known attacks until technical measures are put in place. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 16:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Badger Drink; ongoing incivility / abuse issues
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have literally only come across Badger Drink in the past couple of days; but see these comments in an ongoing RfA, where he refers to another editor's comments as a "stream of histrionic bullshit", comparing the candidate to "someone born without arms being denied a position as a soccer goalkeeper", comment struck by author and then going on to comment "I do not give a rat's shit why they're emotional or what drove them to participate in this RfA".
I see from Badger's talk page and contributions that his challenges with civility are a long-term and ongoing issue, and that prior attempts to address this this have apparently made little or no impact. I regretfully think that, at this stage, an incivility block may be in order. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was a collated response to 5 threads challenging his oppose !vote. To me it looks like a bit of collective brow beating because he has highlighted a concern about a very popular but non-straightforward candidate. In the circs., I'm not sure his response is so unreasonable and I'm surprised to see it brought up here. Leaky Caldron 11:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- The RFA's are usually a free-for-all. Incivility reigns. But maybe that's necessary. We're not talking about article improvements here. We're talking about handing power to someone. The process of bringing in new admin's is highly flawed, but it's the way it is. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:54, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think a block is necessary here. Badger Drink used a lot of bad language, but didn't seem to make any personal attacks (except for questioning other users' maturity, but that's hardly rare at RfA). Epbr123 (talk) 12:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- If anything, incivility at RFA's is useful, as it can demonstrate how, or if, a potential admin will respond to provocative behavior. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- "If anything"? No. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 12:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, it is useful. Nice, no. Useful, yes. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- A suitable candidate should already have demonstrated that they can deal with assholes in the course of their previous edits. The negatives to nastiness in RfAs themselves outweigh the positives. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 13:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, there's no question the RFA process is flawed. It amounts to a popularity contest. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- A suitable candidate should already have demonstrated that they can deal with assholes in the course of their previous edits. The negatives to nastiness in RfAs themselves outweigh the positives. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 13:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, it is useful. Nice, no. Useful, yes. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- "If anything"? No. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 12:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- If anything, incivility at RFA's is useful, as it can demonstrate how, or if, a potential admin will respond to provocative behavior. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- There is an irony in such an oppose coming from a self-appointed attack dog, a caste of Wikipedians whose repeated incivility is primarily overlooked because either they're friends with the right people or enemies of the right people. Nevertheless it's a valid argument (RfA is all about politics, and a bad candidate can easily pass if he hangs around the right areas), albeit one likely to be less effective because of its presentation. Nor was it an especially nasty one, at least not in terms of being directed at the candidate. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 12:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Trust me, if I thought this was a one-off occurrence, I would never have brought it here. I'm not into drama-mongering, and have never brought anything here before. I did check to see whether, maybe, an editor was just "having a bad day" (and that can happen to any and all of us), but it seems it's a much deeper-rooted problem than this. It's not "today's problem" I have concerns with, it's an ongoing history of apparently getting away with too much nastiness. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:47, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- And as I alluded to, that's simply a niche which our weird little ecology has created for itself. We have not yet, and probably never will, come up with an effective and widely-deployable solution to long-term incivility. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 13:12, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think the cannon option may be a bit on the side of overkill! Sadly, far too many people have the illusion / delusion that civility isn't required at RfA; to the best of my knowledge there has never been consensus for this view (nor can I see any "exemptions from civility requirements" in the appropriate place!) However, again, this is clearly not just an RfA issue. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see it as overkill, I'd also support an indef block. Right or wrong, some people get away with gross incivility because they are excellent contributors and do a lot of useful work on the project. Looking over this user's contributions, he's both uncivil and his contributions don't come close to justifying his disruption. That makes him a net-negative. Keeping him on the project is only a detriment to others. I know it sounds very harsh, but people need to stop treating Wikipedia as though disruptive editors have divine right to edit here. They really don't. Someone's presence here should be tolerated only as long as they serve a worthwhile function... after that they are a liability. Trusilver 23:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh no, I used a cuss word. Our first grade teacher is going to be so pissed. Grow up. Badger Drink (talk) 17:27, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- This seems less of an issue compared to the Ludwigs2 issue above. I don't see any admin outrage over that though; is it because it doesn't involve the sacred RFA cow? (And by the way, I voted support in that RFA, but the badgering of opponents did not leave a good impression on me.) ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 17:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I try not to get outraged about anything these days. However, it's at least easier to see the whole picture for a relatively minor thing like this than for some multi-megabyte saga like the one which apparently dissatisfies you. And it's nothing to do with this thread. If we're done here then we might as well close this, as it doesn't appear any immediate admin action is forthcoming. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 17:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- @Badger Drink: The issue here is not the use of the cuss-word, it is the insulting tone of your comments. You seem to be under the strange illusion that because you use cusswords, you are then allowed to be insulting towards other editors. That is a very strange belief, and I would suggest that you stop being insulting, whether or not you choose to use cuss-words. Just because you say "bullshit" doesn't mean that you then get to be insulting without being called to task for it. --Jayron32 17:51, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, the "grow up" part is more offensive than the vulgarities. And its occasional use (by whichever user) is almost always ironic, since that's a comment typically made by adolescents. Adults don't talk to each other that way. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- The issue is the use of a strange defense by Badger Drink. He's being asked to answer for his behavior. The charge is that he is incivil and personally attacks other editors unneccessarily, and his sole defense seems to be "It's OK, because I used cusswords to do so!" Its not the first time such a defense has been mounted, but it is always a completely rediculous defense. If a cop pulls you over for speeding, you can't then say "But it isn't illegal to drive a blue car!" Bringing up an irrelevent fact as a defense for your actions doesn't make any sense at all. I would rather that Badger Drink confronted the issue he is being accused of. --Jayron32 18:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Confront the issue... like... like... a grownup would? :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- The issue is the use of a strange defense by Badger Drink. He's being asked to answer for his behavior. The charge is that he is incivil and personally attacks other editors unneccessarily, and his sole defense seems to be "It's OK, because I used cusswords to do so!" Its not the first time such a defense has been mounted, but it is always a completely rediculous defense. If a cop pulls you over for speeding, you can't then say "But it isn't illegal to drive a blue car!" Bringing up an irrelevent fact as a defense for your actions doesn't make any sense at all. I would rather that Badger Drink confronted the issue he is being accused of. --Jayron32 18:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, the "grow up" part is more offensive than the vulgarities. And its occasional use (by whichever user) is almost always ironic, since that's a comment typically made by adolescents. Adults don't talk to each other that way. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:57, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- It is clear that this editor has a long track record of abrasive behavior. It is equally clear that there exists an unwritten consensus that nothing ought be done about persistent bad behavior, so bringing this here serves only to poke the badger with a spoon. PS. I thought it was "rat's ass" not "rat's shit"?DangerHigh voltage! 17:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe he's trying to be original? ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 18:05, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Two comments. The post refered to as a "stream of histrionic bullshit" was at least as insulting as Badger Drinks reply, and the OP's presentation of the armless goaltender comment without context grossly distorts it's meaning. Not exactly civil behavior.Cube lurker (talk) 18:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
This is a controversial RfA, and some of the discussion has become heated. I think just about the worst thing we could do is to start tossing out civility blocks. (Especially one-sided ones.) Warn if necessary but blocking an opposer on the request of a supporter when the supporters are also engaging in heated rhetoric is just going to escalate this unnecessarily. 28bytes (talk) 19:11, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think that I personally engaged in "heated" rhetoric, at all. Getting heated is not usually my style. And I can quite easily handle the odd cussword in conversation. It's not the cusswords, it's the generally uncivil attitude, over apparently alengthy period of time. And I did actually find the "grow up" comment rather funny - it's the sort of thing that my youngest son - now a dad himself - used to say to people! Forget that it's anything to do with an RfA - it's not about RfA, it's about incivility and lack of respect. And it's been going on, and got away with, for a very long time, it seems. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 20:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I certainly don't think we should be even going down the line of any civility block. Badger Drink is a well established editor and his abrasive tone is well known - and I put myself in the same boat of having an abrasive manner. Telling people to "grow up" is pretty bloody rude however, and Badger would do well to strike that bit - it's a smidge over the top. Nevertheless it is a heated RFA as 28bytes points out (sadly, as one of the noms) and rhetoric is not an uncommon event at these types of things. I'd urge closure of this thread, whilst noting Pesky had nothing but good intentions in filing this at ANI, and Badger Drink would be courteous if he would kindly remove the "grow up" throwaway comment above. Pedro : Chat 21:28, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- If his abrasive tone is well known then it is all the more reason to issue the block until we're assured it will become scarce. That kind of tone is entirely inappropriate for working with a community. If he doesn't want to work with a community he knows where the door is or he can be shown to it.--Crossmr (talk) 23:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I concur with this. The attitude you are describing basically amounts to "They're not being uncivil because they have a long and well-understood history of being uncivil." (It's a recurring theme on ANI, sadly.) —Tom Morris (talk) 11:54, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- If his abrasive tone is well known then it is all the more reason to issue the block until we're assured it will become scarce. That kind of tone is entirely inappropriate for working with a community. If he doesn't want to work with a community he knows where the door is or he can be shown to it.--Crossmr (talk) 23:35, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I suggest the OP rereads the post he objects to - Badger Drink does not, by my reading compare the candidate to "someone born without arms being denied a position as a soccer goalkeeper", he uses that as an extreme example. The "histrionic bullshit" comment may be cussing (whatever that is) in grade school (whatever that is) but out here in the grownup's world it is a fairly inconsequential turn of phrase. This looks more like "waa waa waa he's a nasty man" than a serious issue. Greglocock (talk) 00:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Cussing = swearing, profanity = not WP:CIVIL. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:27, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps you might also take the trouble to explain to User:Pesky why "incivility blocks" are contrary to Wikipedia policy? MalleusFatuorum 00:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- In my book deliberately misrepresenting what someone else has written is far more serious than using 'cuss' words. Greglocock (talk) 00:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps you might also take the trouble to explain to User:Pesky why "incivility blocks" are contrary to Wikipedia policy? MalleusFatuorum 00:37, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Have not people noticed the very few RfAs in the last months? In the last few weeks, I've had two excellent candidates decline to be nominated because they do not wish to be discussed in the current environment. That the environment is so toxic is the fault of a very few repetitive editors. This is actually, not just potentially, harming the encyclopedia, and should not be tolerated. It is very possible -- and more effective --to oppose someone as strongly as necessary by simply pointing out the reasons calmly. RfA should be a zone for especially polite behavior. I am in principle willing to block for gross violations of NPA anywhere in Wikipedia after sufficient warnings, as I would for any harmful behavior, but i have not done so because it would seem like selective enforcement. Perhaps I should think of it instead as an example to be started in the hope that those admins who similarly care will be able to make it consistent enforcement. If it is necessary to choose where to start, I think the place to begin is with the people who have been here the longest and have the most reason to know better. I've heard it said that content contributors should be immune, but I think it's all the more important to prevent them from wasting their efforts on unconstructive activities. Blocks are preventative, after all--though I know this is an usual way or using the term. I am prepared for the usual opposition from those who will find their preferred activities here hampered, but I'm only wary of the people who know how to say how wrong they think I am in more measured terms: someone might take them seriously. DGG ( talk ) 05:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I completely agree with you. Too many people seem to think "I'm here to contribute content - I can get away with it". - The Bushranger One ping only 05:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) There have been many more potential candidates of the right calibre who have respectfully declined to run for adminship due to the environment of the voting page, and nominations have now all but completely stagnated. I believe it is time to begin implementing any reasonable measures to protect the process from any editors who appear to be repeatedly be disruptive to the system, or who come to it in the knowledge that they can be rude with impunity. There is no reason why RfA should be a safe haven from our core policies of NPA and civility, even if tradition seems to demonstrate otherwise. Blocking may cause collateral damage to the project, but a topic ban from RfA could certainly be considered. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The obvious solution is to have only admins make the selections of other admins. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think that, very possibly, one of my biggest concerns here - and it's related to the "long-term" aspect, is that Badger (for whatever reason, and I know we all have Real Life issues which affect us), seems completely unable to admit that there is anything at all wrong with his attitude and (apparently) cavalier disregard for other people's feelings, or to change in any way at all. It's a question of "addressing his offending behaviour" - and he just doesn't seem able to do this. This, for me, rings warning bells of various kinds. WP:CIVIL is one of the foundation stones of this project - the Five Pillars - or at least it is supposed to be. "Respect and be polite to your fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree." This is not a newbie who hasn't yet learned acceptable manners - it's someone who really should be setting an example, and clearly isn't. "Old enough to know better." It would seem, just from what I read here, that there are people who think they either they or others are exempt from the requirement to be polite, respectful and civil; this is wrong. We shouldn't ever have the "all Wikipedians are equal, but some are more equal than others" attitude. Rules should apply equally to all of us. Nobody should be left feeling that someone else can get away with rule-violation (or even extreme bending) with impunity. It's disheartening to those of us who go out of our way to be civil and respectful even when we are in disagreement with someone, or dealing with a problematic editor. If the attitude here in Wikepedia is running along the lines of "Oh, well, he's Mr X, Mr X can get away with it", then this needs to be nipped in the bud. At a bare minumim, some acceptance by Badger that he is, in all truth, at fault here, and that he is prepared to consider changing in the right direction - possibly even that he is prepared to consider some kind of buddying or mentoring from someone who may be able to bring out some self-discipline in this area, and in the mean time to avoid areas of conflict until he is able to control the aggression of conflict ... those things would be good. But, all said and done - it's one of the Five Pillars. We shouldn't be treating this lightly. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm just going to add this direct quote from WP:CIVIL here: "Editors are human, capable of mistakes, so a few minor incidents of incivility are not in themselves a major concern. However, a studied pattern of incivility is disruptive and unacceptable, and may result in blocks if it rises to the level of harassment or egregious personal attacks." (emphasis mine) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Chris, I understand your comment here; however, just because something hasn't worked in the past is no real reason to give up on it. One of the things that can put editors off is any type of behaviour - particularly from longer-term, experienced editors - which is aggressive, demeaning, belittling, humiliating, and so on. It's precisely why civility is one of the Five Pillars, and our collective attitude towards insisting on / enforcing an acceptable standard of behaviour between editors, even when they find themselves on opposite sides of any fence, needs a brush-up. The longer the attitude of "It'll never fly" carries on, the more our standards will slip, and the more we are likely to put off potentially good editors. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- ... and a "studied pattern" belongs at WP:RFC/U :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Pesky, Badger made a thoughtful point in his oppose, which was then validated by several replies. I didn't find that comment incivil, just exasperated. Concerns about a "not what you know but who you know" culture have been voiced over several years here and there. RfA is difficult and this particular one was always going to be a tricky one given the past. I'd say this thread can be closed too. Casliber (talk·contribs) 12:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Caliber, sure, I can understand that. As I've mentioned earlier, though, it's not a one-off incident which has concerned me here (I;ve come across plenty of one-off incidents all over the place). When I do come across potential issues like this, I always take the time to try and find out if it was a minor and temporary glitch, or something more long-term and more of an issue, and I think this comes into that category. If RfC/U is a much better place for issues like this, then that may well be the way to go, in which case may apologies for bringing it here. I do think, when all's said and done, that ongoing and long-term incivility issues shouldn't just get brushed under the carpet, wherever they end up. It's really not difficult to remain courteous and civil, it just requires a bit of self-awareness and self-discipline. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Pesky, Badger made a thoughtful point in his oppose, which was then validated by several replies. I didn't find that comment incivil, just exasperated. Concerns about a "not what you know but who you know" culture have been voiced over several years here and there. RfA is difficult and this particular one was always going to be a tricky one given the past. I'd say this thread can be closed too. Casliber (talk·contribs) 12:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Havengore
- Havengore (talk · contribs) is Refactoring other's comments about his unblock request on his talk page [137][138] then making snarky comments when I warn him about it [139]. I would remove talk page access but I feel involved and would prefer another admin's review. Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 01:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
How odd. Personally I'd be reluctant to step in and modify the block since there are a half-dozen admins already interacting with him there, but his behavior is clearly disruptive (and baffling.) 28bytes (talk) 02:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is just too much; he even refactored the {{uw-tpv3}} template message. I've removed talk page access, and I've also left messages on the talk pages of admins who have been interacting with him, saying essentially that they should restore talk page access without asking me if they feel that it will help. The same goes for anyone else who's reading this. Nyttend (talk) 03:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I took a look at the situation, and baffling doesn't begin to describe the meltdown my brain is having. That aside, this user has only been around for a few days. I'm leaving an offer for mentorship on his talk page. He is still new and unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies. He seems to want to contribute, and we shouldn't throw that away. Ishdarian 07:35, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
WP:AIV backlog for 8 November
WP:AIV is getting awfully busy, if anyone has a few moments to pitch in. Thanks. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:38, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
User Schiavello keeps removing AfD tags and discussions
User Schiavello removed the AfD tags from anything related to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (2nd nomination) twice. He also blanked the AfD discussion and removed it from the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Martial arts. When I saw it the first time I put a message on his talk page (which he has since blanked) asking him not to do it and then I restored all the pages. He has now done it all again. These are the only edits by that user, so I suspect he's a puppet (sock or meat). Papaursa (talk) 23:22, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
After doing a related check, the following are
Confirmed as indefinitely blocked user Cyperuspapyrus (talk·contribs) and have been indefinitely blocked:
- Terminahp (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Swungtrade1 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Ilondt (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
More to come, as there may be additional socks. –MuZemike 23:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
The following accounts are
Confirmed as each other (but not as Cyperuspapyrus):
- Minowafan (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- WölffReik (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Schiavello (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
–MuZemike 00:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sooo...should these last three be blocked? - The BushrangerOne ping only 07:00, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- The first three are a "gimme"; I'll leave for the community as to what to do with the other contingent, i.e. block the socks, warn/block the sockmaster, how long, etc. –MuZemike 12:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if this is relevant, but Minowafan currently has a long list of subpages that are mostly backups of pages deleted through deletion review. Since they are all still categorized, they show up when browsing categories. It seems like the user is trying to avoid being charged with recreating deleted pages by hosting them as userpages instead. What is the relevant policy here? Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 16:11, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- WP:UP#COPIES seems to come closest. — Edokter (talk) — 16:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think the sockpuppets should be blocked indefinitely and the sockmaster should be blocked for some period of time. I have no idea what the usual punishment is for this. Astudent0 (talk) 19:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Astudent0. I'm surprised that even the sockpuppets haven't been blocked yet. Papaursa (talk) 02:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- For the ones that aren`t blocked, normally at WP:SPI they would block all but the master, warn the master in this case. I'll get a clerk to block and tag these. (If this isn't dealt with in 12 hours, someone please file an WP:SPI...becuase I don't want this to disappear without blocks. (I would block now, but i've put my admin tools aside for now) -- DQ (t) (e) 06:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I've blocked and tagged both confirmed socks, and blocked WölffReik for 3 days for sockpuppeting. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 04:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Very old AfD's
I found a bunch of AfD's which were all started well over a week ago (in some cases over a month ago) by User:Koavf, and have not yet been closed or relisted. They were probably not added to the log. Could someone take a look and close these?
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Le Plus Grand Français
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Unsere Besten
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greatest Chilean
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Le plus grand Belge
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Velikite Balgari
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Top 100 Historical Persons in Japan
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Greatest Ukrainians
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fight Like a Girl (Emilie Autumn album)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Memories of a Time to Come
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Triple Album Project (working title)
- Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scars and Stories
Thanks. —SW— express 18:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Twinkle error, me error All were made by WP:TWINKLE. I seemed to recall that a bot came by and added them to the days' logs, so I didn't think that I would have to manually add them. I guess I was wrong...? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I didn't check if they had been added to any logs, but if they haven't been closed after a month I think it's safe to say they weren't added. I used to have similar troubles with Twinkle, although I thought that got fixed. I usually just double-check that Twinkle did everything it was supposed to do whenever I start an AfD. —SW—talk 18:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- Once an AfD hits a month old it starts popping up in various reports, and if it is not in a current log it will usually be listed. There are no bots that automatically list them, but twinkle is *supposed* to list them if you use it to create the AfD. It is usually a good idea to check to make sure twinkle did it right when it comes to actions that require twinkle to edit multiple pages such as with AfD listings. Monty845 18:44, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- I didn't check if they had been added to any logs, but if they haven't been closed after a month I think it's safe to say they weren't added. I used to have similar troubles with Twinkle, although I thought that got fixed. I usually just double-check that Twinkle did everything it was supposed to do whenever I start an AfD. —SW—talk 18:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's a known problem that also effects FfDs. Fastily created a tool that helps track the FfDs, which is at User:Fastily/FfD. His bot updates the page daily. Could a similar thing be developed for AfDs? Sven Manguard Wha? 09:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- If I remember correctly, User:DumbBOT used to fix the listings. See User:DumbBOT/IncompleteAfD (last updated July 2011) and User talk:DumbBOT#User:DumbBOT/IncompleteAfD. Flatscan (talk) 05:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I find them at Wikipedia:Article alerts/Problem entries/Old, though I suspect some editors have additional ways of identifying them. Monty845 05:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Robert Moore
Looks like this user has had an AN/I in the past (in October 2010), but from what I can tell, it didn't help any. This is basically to bring up the same things that were done back then, but I'll repeat them anyway. User also refuses to format references correctly, even after my request on his talk page, and it's getting extremely tedious to go through and correct them all. There are also no edit summaries to provide any explanation (a quick search reveals that the only edit summaries he has ever used are when moving a page, using the summary "Title change"). It looks to me like these have been continuous things (as evident here), and the user doesn't seem to ever respond to anyone (except one notable case when he was blocked for two weeks). I hate that it had to come to this, but it's clear that talk page messages will not get through, so I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. Kevinbrogers (talk) 23:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- What's wrong with using <ref>...</ref> ... that's what I use. Of course, using Twitter as a ref, that's far more offensive in my mind, but it's not just him doing that ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I should have been more specific. The {{cite web}} template is what I was referring to. Kevinbrogers (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- But what exactly is the problem? That he won't use {{cite web}} as per your insistence? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes (though I just now found out here that it's not required, as I previously thought it was). However, my other problems still remain: the user has never responded to anyone and refuses to use edit summaries. When other users attempt to make contact, we are simply ignored. Kevinbrogers (talk) 23:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not much an admin can do for an editor who refuses to discuss unless he's being disruptive which this guy doesn't appear to be doing. Noformation Talk 23:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes (though I just now found out here that it's not required, as I previously thought it was). However, my other problems still remain: the user has never responded to anyone and refuses to use edit summaries. When other users attempt to make contact, we are simply ignored. Kevinbrogers (talk) 23:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- But what exactly is the problem? That he won't use {{cite web}} as per your insistence? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry, I should have been more specific. The {{cite web}} template is what I was referring to. Kevinbrogers (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Kumkwat
Kumkwat (talk · contribs) has been persistently adding information concerning the relationship between Phil Collins and Dana Tyler and an RfC was filed (see request for comment). Today, after being given a final warning on his talk page four days ago by Srobak (talk · contribs) and Seb az86556 (talk · contribs), the user has continued to readd the same information. ([140], [141]). I am alerting the community of what has happened, and I hope this is not excessive. What is the best way to handle this situation? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- The user has been warned about edit-warring and this issue a dozen times - given their continued perseverance, I've rewarded them with an indefinite block. There are some good contributions in there, but they're effectively voided by the disruption. They've still got talk page access if they want to appeal. m.o.p 04:09, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
User Barsoomian
I really don't have the time to spend on this, but Barsoomian is getting a little out of hand. I think I need someone with more experience than I give the guy/gal a heads up as to what passes for civility in Wikipedia, because I've been dealing with repeated personal attacks, bad faith accusations and tendentious OWNership issues. I've been keeping my cool, but the user has been repeatedly posting on my user talk page after asking me to stay off his. Quick backstory (sans content issues): I started editing New Amsterdam (동음이의), removing some points of OR and SYN (1). Another user, MJBurrage reverted, and I thinking that the user had made a mistake, contacted him about it a few days later(2). For whatever reason, he didn't get back to me, so I went ahead and reverted it back, 2 days later(3). Barsoomian then reverted, suggesting that I use the talk page to convince people, which I did.
This is where everything went downhill. Almost from the get-go, Barsoomian presumed I was out to gut "his" article, and went on the attack:
- 4 - "pedantry", "If you can't be bothered to work through the details", "pushy", "I will revert any wholesale deletion you make on the trivial grounds you have raised"
- 5 - "could you be more dismissive, and rude if you tried?"
- 6 - "your screeds", ""
The list goes on and on, but it's more of a complete skewing of my words and an overwhelming trollish behavior on the part of Barsoomian than any given comment. Its all a snide grouping of sniping attacks, and it presents a toxic environment to work within. I have remained pretty damn civil, considering(7, 8, 9, 10) without even a hint of effect. If anything, Barsoomian's behavior has ballooned out of control.
Anyhoo, I initiated an RfC on the content issues, so as to bring in more editors and thus remove the clear anger being shown me by Barsoomian. If he wasn't going to listen to me, maybe he'd listen to others telling him the same thing.
I also sought to follow DR, addressing the conflict at DRN, but Transporter Man closed it, noting on his talk page that conduct issues aren't within the scope of DRN. I really tried to avoid posting the matter here, naively believing that if Barsoomian saw that I was serious enough about his uncivil behavior to take it to DRN, he might calm down. I was of course wrong. He has posted personal attacks on my usertalk, dropping the f-bomb when it suits him (11, 12, "Respond here on your actions or I will find another venue".
I'm tired of this user thinking that he can treat other users this way, simply because they have come to "gut" his private article. MJBurrage has invested more edits in the article, but his behavior has been pretty darn polite, a pleasure to discuss, even if we disagree. Barsoomian has been a nightmare. Maybe I am the bad guy here, but I am not seeing how that's possible. I am thinkig this user decided that the best defense is a good offense. And boy, he's been offensive. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 04:41, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Suffice it to say that I dispute every word of the above. If anyone takes any of it seriously, after reviewing the actual context rather than Sebastian's snippets, please specify below which if any points require a response or explanation and I will do so. I have work to do in real life, so please do not expect an immediate response. Thanks. PS: I had already posted at Wikiquette assistance on a related issue (that was the "another venue" I resorted to after trying to discuss it on his talk page). Barsoomian (talk) 04:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, discovered it had been filed immediately after posting here. Barsoomian's and my respective complaints appear to have been filed within 20 minutes of each other (mine was the latter, though in my defense, I was crafting the complaint here and missed the wikiquette complaint by Barsoomian about something relatively unrelated to this complaint). - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- LMFTFY: "something DIRECTLY RELATED to this complaint". Barsoomian (talk) 05:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, discovered it had been filed immediately after posting here. Barsoomian's and my respective complaints appear to have been filed within 20 minutes of each other (mine was the latter, though in my defense, I was crafting the complaint here and missed the wikiquette complaint by Barsoomian about something relatively unrelated to this complaint). - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- My first recommendation would be that you two discontinue all communication with each other for the time being. I'll talk to you individually and work as a mediator to settle this issue. If one of you says something the other does not agree with, please do not reply to the offending statement. Just let me know if you think your words or actions are being misrepresented and I'll do the rest. Also, please do not make any edits that the other could even conceivably take offense to, especially not to the articles you've already clashed on.
- I know it seems a bit much to completely separate you two, but, given that you're both well-spoken and have your wits about yourselves, I feel like any writing one of you produces will serve as a seed for the other's rebuttal.
- If you can both agree to this, then we can get started with resolution. If not, I'll take more-traditional avenues of sanctioning. Let me know on my talk page - this thread isn't in the best location for dispute resolution. m.o.p 05:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Treating German Wikipedia as a reliable source
| German (or any language) Wikipedia is not a reliable source. The burden (of providing RS) lies with the editor who adds material. |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
User:Martinvl insists upon citing the German Wikipedia as if it were a reliable source at the Foot (unit) article. See line 156 in this edit. I don't think anyone who has read WP:V and WP:IRS can seriously think this is acceptable, even so, the policy was acknowledged at Talk:Foot (unit)#Circular references and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#References to non-English Wikipedias. I view this as deliberate defiance of the Verifiability policy and enforcement of the policy is in order. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:48, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I think we just need to put a banner in WP:RS to the effect of if it has "wiki" anywhere in the name, assume it is not a reliable source, even if it's Wikipedia. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
In the last few days I have been working through the various entries getting reliable sources. May I draw to attention that when various people went around stripping out various references, orphaned refs were left behind. If they are going to do the job, then please do it properly. Martinvl (talk) 21:04, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
|
Activity at Teen Mania Ministries
There's been some frantic editing by anons, an SPA, and various others at Teen Mania Ministries today. What seems to have happened is that MSNBC made a documentary about the organization, and ran it last Sunday. Teen Mania Ministries is not pleased. Ron Luce, the leader, is engaged in spin control efforts, which may have spilled over into Wikipedia. I rolled back some of the changes, but the article could use a few more eyes on it until things quiet down. See Talk:Teen Mania Ministries for links to recent press coverage. --John Nagle (talk) 06:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Merge . . .
No objection having been raised to a merge atTalk:Rick_J._Caruso, could it kindly be accomplished? Thank you. GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Merging articles does not require administrator action; any editor can do it. Follow the instructions at Wikipedia:MERGE#Performing the merger. BencherliteTalk 09:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Ban proposal for Ryan kirkpatrick
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Due to the discussion below, Ryan kirkpatrick is henceforth site banned from Wikipedia per the banning policy. This policy makes it very clear that we, as a community, have the ability to revoke an individual's editor status in order to preserve the site's integrity. Given the near-unanimous consensus below, I think the community's decision is clear. m.o.p 17:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Long-term sockpuppeteer User:Ryan kirkpatrick has stepped up his activity lately. This user has - so far - had 53 confirmed sock accounts and IP addresses, with at least another 7 being extremely likely. In addition, he has popped up yesterday and today vandalising his SPI page [142] [143] with WP:OWNish behavior and promises to "not [go] anywere until all my past work is gone". Given all this, I would like to propose a formal and official WP:BAN of this user. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:02, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- See also this edit summary, says it all really. - The BushrangerOne ping only 10:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Another quality comment from him. Apparently he thinks it's OK to set ultimatums. - The BushrangerOne ping only 10:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Since there is practically zero collateral damage, I'll rangeblock the college he's editing from, as a start (and will mention why on the block log). Black Kite (t) 23:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you! - The Bushranger One ping only 23:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Since there is practically zero collateral damage, I'll rangeblock the college he's editing from, as a start (and will mention why on the block log). Black Kite (t) 23:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Another quality comment from him. Apparently he thinks it's OK to set ultimatums. - The BushrangerOne ping only 10:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support as proposer. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:02, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support with that many socks Ryan is de-facto banned anyway, so we may as well formalise the ban to speed up the process of blocking further socks. Nick-D (talk) 10:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - Off2riorob (talk) 10:47, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - Obviously intentionally disruptive to the project. - Ahunt (talk) 12:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support — Obviously. HurricaneFan25 13:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support Obviously. He already is defacto banned and I've always treated him accordingly. WilliamH (talk) 15:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support, provided we are allowed to actually enforce this ban (see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#WP:G5 Discussion); if not, then I see no purpose of even keeping him blocked. –MuZemike 15:31, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose, he is adding good images which enhance the project. Chesdovi (talk) 15:51, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support Socking above and beyond the norm. MarnetteD Talk 15:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support Report says it all. --NellieBly (talk) 16:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - we don't need that sort of behavior. LadyofShalott 17:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support His behavior and "threats" are convincing enough for me. Wildthing61476 (talk) 17:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support per socking, threats. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:52, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support. This is long past due. ---RepublicanJacobiteTheFortyFive 18:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support, per every support reason above, way past due. Heiro 18:57, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Dumb question: Who is the sock and who is the master? Ryan kirkpatrick is listed as a sock at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jersay/Archive#24 June 2010, but then about two weeks later an SPI is opened listing Ryan kirkpatrick as the master. This is confusing, shouldn't the ban be for User:Jersay instead of kirkpatrick, and shouldn't the SPIs be combined? Apologies if this is needlessly confusing the matter. Rgrds. --64.85.216.178 (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The relationship of User:Ryan kirkpatrick and User:Jersay appears to be unclear. From what I can tell, Rk appeared right after a confirmed Jersaysock was blocked and picked up where that sock left off - but Ryan appears to be from an entirely different country (Canada vs UK). Move or meatpuppetry? Unknown - hence the seperate SPIs. The Rk socks after that, however, are all definitively linked to Rk and his brigade of sockpuppets. The link between User:Jersay and User:Ryan kirkpatrick was strictly behaviorial; the links between Rk and his 54+ socks are either CU confirmed or quacking much louder. - The BushrangerOne ping only 19:36, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's a mildly irrelevant question. We haven't tagged any socks for Jersay since Jan 2010, whereas we block a RK sock at least once a month. As far as I'm concerned Jersay is out of the picture. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 04:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- The relationship of User:Ryan kirkpatrick and User:Jersay appears to be unclear. From what I can tell, Rk appeared right after a confirmed Jersaysock was blocked and picked up where that sock left off - but Ryan appears to be from an entirely different country (Canada vs UK). Move or meatpuppetry? Unknown - hence the seperate SPIs. The Rk socks after that, however, are all definitively linked to Rk and his brigade of sockpuppets. The link between User:Jersay and User:Ryan kirkpatrick was strictly behaviorial; the links between Rk and his 54+ socks are either CU confirmed or quacking much louder. - The BushrangerOne ping only 19:36, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - Especially as it appears that Ryan has changed from merely being a nuisance to threatening to harrass other editors - perhaps someone should contact the college to which the ip which Ryan appears to have used to make the latest posts?Nigel Ish (talk) 19:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - if this user is has disruptive behavior in this encyclopedia, he is no longer welcome Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 21:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - With several sock puppets and severe disruption by the user, this has gone far enough. With that said, enough is enough. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:54, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support - Appears to be feeding on the attention and creating socks faster than the SPIs can be closed and opened. Has moved from being a nusiance to being disruptive. MilborneOne (talk) 22:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support: I reviewed whats going on and concur with all of the above. -OberRanks (talk) 22:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support. I'm highly surprised that we didn't have a ban in place already. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 23:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support, it would be absurd to think that such a prolific sockpuppetteer didn't deserve banning. Nyttend (talk) 03:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Support. Mostly for socking, but also for lack of competence, disruption, threats, etc etc. --Blackmane (talk) 11:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
Found something on an Arbcom diff
I'm not sure this is really where it should be, and I'm not sure who's behind it, but I was going through the history on the new BCD ArbComm case's evidence (trying to catch up on it), and found what looks like some sort of weird-ass template vandalism on this diff. I'm sure Masem wasn't involved in making it, and the diffs around it are just fine, but given what I'm getting on my screen when I opened that diff, I thought I should notify somebody. rdfox 76 (talk) 01:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it's caused by someone (i.e Masem) using {{User:Username}} when they should link with square brackets instead. Using the curly jobbies transcludes the userpage into the page being edited. DuncanHill (talk) 01:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- He fixed it next edit by changing the : to a . DuncanHill (talk) 01:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks. Guess I learn something new about WP every day! Even when I'm trying to avoid it...rdfox 76 (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, the certified idiot gif is on Hammersoft's userpage. He also managed to transclude Tristessa's userpage. That's the sort of thing I would do :) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's a great example of why the "show preview" button is such a Good Thing. DuncanHill (talk) 01:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- See also: That's why we preview, kids. Not that I haven't done the same damn thing, myself... UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It's a great example of why the "show preview" button is such a Good Thing. DuncanHill (talk) 01:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, the certified idiot gif is on Hammersoft's userpage. He also managed to transclude Tristessa's userpage. That's the sort of thing I would do :) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks. Guess I learn something new about WP every day! Even when I'm trying to avoid it...rdfox 76 (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
BLP mess
- Cazedessus (talk · contribs · count · api · block log)
- Bruce Cockburn (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
I first noticed this issue today on WP:BLPN here. User Cazedessus, who is apparently also Camille Cazedessus, Jr., has some sort of vendetta against Bruce Cockburn. The BLP violation was properly removed from the Cockburn article here. However, I decided to add a warning about the insertion of the material to Cazedessus's Talk page (which is an unholy mess). After doing so, I realized there is a huge diatribe against Cockburn on the Talk page interspersed with other editors' comments and warnings, making it difficult to remove. Also, there are personal attacks as well on editors (calling them Nazis, among other things). This isn't just an article issue, it's an editor issue. What's the best way to handle this?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that it's an editor issue. I tried to engage the editor in discussion when it first transpired at the beginning of the month but didn't get anywhere. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:20, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- Whack the motherf***** already. This sounds like a competence issue compounded by a seething hatred for this guy; Cazedessus has no business being here. —Jeremy v^_^vComponents:V S M 02:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I concur. After reading through all that, I've concluded he's WP:NOTHERE and, accordingly, I've blocked him indefinitely. - The BushrangerOne ping only 03:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Bushranger, that's an interesting little bouillabaisse of self-promotion and paranoia. It's best we just seal the vault on this one. Dayewalker (talk) 03:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I concur. After reading through all that, I've concluded he's WP:NOTHERE and, accordingly, I've blocked him indefinitely. - The BushrangerOne ping only 03:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- Whack the motherf***** already. This sounds like a competence issue compounded by a seething hatred for this guy; Cazedessus has no business being here. —Jeremy v^_^vComponents:V S M 02:54, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I think we need to remove the BLP violations from the user's Talk page.--Bbb23 (talk) 03:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've just removed almost all of the page; only the last two sections of it remain. (The rest of it was BLP vios and personal screeds.) —Jeremy v^_^vComponents:V S M 04:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree it is a competence issue. Caz is not a net benefit to WP. Binksternet (talk) 04:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- Jeremy, I noticed your removal, thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:28, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Agree, happy to see a "competence" block, we should see them more often, for example, in cases that aren't quite as easy as this one, and may take more time and research to understand. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:30, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've read a new definition of "hate crime" today. [145] Cazedessus may have a good reason to criticize Cockburn song's lyrics, and even cite his own book for that criticism, but he's doing it in a totally tabloid fashion. ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 11:35, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- After doing some searches, Cazedessus' books on Carson are unheard of in Worldcat. They're either self-published or printed by a totally obscure publisher. They don't even seem to have ISBNs. I've removed them from the Carson article. [146] The may belong in Cazedessus' bio though, although at this point I cant even verify their existence. As for the Cockburn song, no secondary source is cited with respect to it being a significant view/presentation of Carson. I propose removal on that grounds, unless reliable secondary sources can be found to testify for the importance of that song for Carson's image. [147]ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 11:54, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- Worldcat is mostly academic libraries and as such might very well not have Cazedessus's books, which sound targeted toward a different audience. Try loc.gov or some kind of science fiction reference. Also, ISBN's were invented in the 1970's or so, and didn't become really widespread til much later than that. So lack of ISBN's on books from the 1970's doesn't by itself indicate obscurity. I have no opinion on the Cazedessus-Cockburn battle but if Cazedessus's books are being excerpted without proper citations, we should fix that (perhaps by removing the material). (Added: Oh wait, I see now that the Carson books were much more recent (2000's), so the ISBN issue is a bit more bothersome). 71.141.89.4 (talk) 11:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Worldcat is mostly academic libraries..."[citation needed] Oh really? I don't think that is accurate. LadyofShalott 03:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Worldcat is mostly academic libraries... Er, no, at least their own website suggests otherwise: "WorldCat.org lets you search the collections of libraries in your community and thousands more around the world. WorldCat grows every day thanks to the efforts of librarians and other information professionals." And a quick search using a random book from my shelf and my old ZIP Code gets 10 public libraries and 9 university libraries with the first edition of the book. I suspected it's weighted towards academic libraries and because they're more likely to have computerized and Internet-accessible catalogs than many small city libraries. Yes, [citation needed]. Also, if "academic libraries" are not the target of Cazedessus's book, that pretty much denigrates it as a reliable source, doesn't it? --CaltonTalk 12:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oh my, it does look like they (Worldcat) have absorbed a lot more catalogs in the last few years (see OCLC for some background and some now-out-of-date statistics that I may try to fix), and here for some criticism). I haven't looked at Cazedessus's stuff but some googling shows one of his books is a bibliography of other Carson-related publications. WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT surprisingly says it's ok to use such sources without crediting them, which is not the way I was taught to do things. I'd say Cazedessus' bibliography is perfectly ok to use as a research aid in writing the article even if it's not an RS in its own right; and if it was used that way without credit, I can understand why Cazedessus got upset. 71.141.89.4 (talk) 19:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Worldcat is mostly academic libraries... Er, no, at least their own website suggests otherwise: "WorldCat.org lets you search the collections of libraries in your community and thousands more around the world. WorldCat grows every day thanks to the efforts of librarians and other information professionals." And a quick search using a random book from my shelf and my old ZIP Code gets 10 public libraries and 9 university libraries with the first edition of the book. I suspected it's weighted towards academic libraries and because they're more likely to have computerized and Internet-accessible catalogs than many small city libraries. Yes, [citation needed]. Also, if "academic libraries" are not the target of Cazedessus's book, that pretty much denigrates it as a reliable source, doesn't it? --CaltonTalk 12:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Worldcat is mostly academic libraries..."[citation needed] Oh really? I don't think that is accurate. LadyofShalott 03:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Worldcat is mostly academic libraries and as such might very well not have Cazedessus's books, which sound targeted toward a different audience. Try loc.gov or some kind of science fiction reference. Also, ISBN's were invented in the 1970's or so, and didn't become really widespread til much later than that. So lack of ISBN's on books from the 1970's doesn't by itself indicate obscurity. I have no opinion on the Cazedessus-Cockburn battle but if Cazedessus's books are being excerpted without proper citations, we should fix that (perhaps by removing the material). (Added: Oh wait, I see now that the Carson books were much more recent (2000's), so the ISBN issue is a bit more bothersome). 71.141.89.4 (talk) 11:32, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- After doing some searches, Cazedessus' books on Carson are unheard of in Worldcat. They're either self-published or printed by a totally obscure publisher. They don't even seem to have ISBNs. I've removed them from the Carson article. [146] The may belong in Cazedessus' bio though, although at this point I cant even verify their existence. As for the Cockburn song, no secondary source is cited with respect to it being a significant view/presentation of Carson. I propose removal on that grounds, unless reliable secondary sources can be found to testify for the importance of that song for Carson's image. [147]ASCIIn2Bme (talk) 11:54, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
- And today, I found an email from our friend Cazadessus sent through Wiki's mail in my inbox:
What exactly is your problem? First I am THREATENED with being blocked (by somebody named Goetz?), then i AM BLOCKED by you. And now I see that all the comic book and movie information that comes from my publications is still included, but no longer referenced to my publications. But Bruce Cockburn's hate speech song lyrics are included in the Kit Carson section, where someone says "(it) that does not present Carson in a positive light." Really? That sounds like "original research" to me. Since I am using my real name, I'd like to have your real name.
(On that last, I don't think so.) - The Bushranger One ping only 06:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks BlackKite. (Funny that he decided to use email seeing as he isn't blocked from using his talk page...) - The Bushranger One ping only 06:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Crikey; a song is fiction. I'm now starting to get real pissed off at the Crash Test Dummies because I don't think Supermanever used "dirty old phone booths" like they claim in Superman's Song. Should I sue? </sarcasm> (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:11, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Love his assertion that misspelling text avoids the copyright implications; if only we'd realised that before, all the fine folk at CCI could have been editing productively, too. </second batch of sarcasm> Cheers, LindsayHello 12:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I see he finally turned up at the talk page, essentially accusing us of being out to get him. I'll leave it to another to respond further to him there. - The BushrangerOne ping only 17:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Love his assertion that misspelling text avoids the copyright implications; if only we'd realised that before, all the fine folk at CCI could have been editing productively, too. </second batch of sarcasm> Cheers, LindsayHello 12:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Crikey; a song is fiction. I'm now starting to get real pissed off at the Crash Test Dummies because I don't think Supermanever used "dirty old phone booths" like they claim in Superman's Song. Should I sue? </sarcasm> (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:11, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Prolonged Pattern of Disruptive Editing by User:Hoops gza
I believe a serious situation has been going for sometime with Hoops gza (talk · contribs) which at this point violates WP:DISRUPT and requires administrative action. Since joining this site two years ago, Hoops has experienced a string of disruptive editing practices beginning with vandalism and edit warring and eventually moving into disruptive page moves and violations of Wikipedia's policies on categories. Most recently, and perhaps the most serious of all, Hoops has engaged in the uploading of several images to Wikipedia with questionable copyright status and seemingly deliberate false licensing tags. Up to now, Hoops has escaped any real attention from administrators since the user (when confronted) does back down and has up to now steered clear of any WP:NPA or WP:CIV violations. However, Hoops patterns of disruptive editing have been going on now for well over a year and a half, causing the attention, intervention, and frustration of numerous editors. I spent some time going back through the user's edit history and what I found was very alarming. I strongly urge some kind of administrative action against this account in order to stop this obvious pattern of disruption.
Previous admin board discussions
November 2010, May 2011
Disruptive Editing History
Account appears to have been created in November 2009. There was an eight month edit gap between January and August 2010. The first signs of disruptive editing began a month later in September 2010. Many of the early disruptions can perhaps be attributed to "Newbie" errors and a misunderstanding of policies. However, acts of edit warring and vandalism appear to have continued into April 2011. The next month, the user began uploading questionable images to Wikipedia, a pattern which continues to the present day. In the summer of 2011, the user began to draw attention from others due to improper page moves and category creations. The most recent disruption appears to be a new wave of improper image uploads both this month and last.
- Article edit warring [148] (Sep 2010)
- Talk page vandalism warning [149] (Sep 2010)
- Page move without consensus [150] (Oct 2010)
- Article edit warring leading to a block [151] (Nov 2010)
- Article edit warring shortly after being unblocked [152] (Nov 2010)
- Images tagged for possible copyright infringement [153] (Jan 2011)
- Vandalism warning [154] (Jan 2011)
- Removing speedy deletion templates from article [155] [156] (Feb 2011)
- Article edit warring [157] (Mar 2011)
- Images tagged for possible copyright infringement [158] [159] (Apr 2011)
- Improper talk page usage [160] (Apr 2011)
- Multiple image uploads with follow-on re uploads, all with seemingly fraudulent licensing tags [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] [172] [173] [174] [175] [176] [177] [178] (May 2011)
- Discussion about removing deletion tags [179] (May 2011)
- Discussion on disruptive editing [180] (May 2011)
- Article edit warring [181] (Jun 2011)
- Improper page moves without consensus [182] (Jun 2011)
- Category edit warring [183] (Jun 2011)
- Category edit warring [184] (Jul 2011)
- Article edit warring [185] (Jul 2011)
- Mass category blanking and attempted deletion without discussion [186] [187]
- Seemingly uploading an image with a false licensing tag [188] (Oct 2011)
- Re-adding speedy delete template to redirected article [189] (Oct 2011)
- Creating a branch category without consensus or discussion (subsequently deleted) - (Nov 2011)
- Seemingly uploading an image with a false licensing tag [190] (Nov 2011)
-OberRanks (talk) 22:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- If anything, this seems to be a disruptive editor suffering from a lack of competence. I'm partial to a temporary block - I'm not an advocate of issuing blocks as punishment, but it's clear that warnings aren't doing anything in this case. m.o.p 04:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- They would also benefit from some encouragement to use the talk pages more. I perused the last 3000 edits and there are barely a handful of edits to talk pages and some are just notices of page moves, so real talk page discussion is probably countable on one hand. --Blackmane (talk) 11:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Main issue is that the user doesn't appear to know or care that what they are doing is disruptive to the site. Hoops has been offered a mentor on more than one occasion and has never shown any interest in this - in fact has never even responded to inquiries about it. Certainly willing to entertain a final chance, though, but chances are probably nothing will improve due to the editor's own lack of interest in the whole situation and a refusal to even acknowledge that a situation even exists. -OberRanks (talk) 17:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Isn't there usually a case to indef block an editor if they're refusing to communicate with others if only to get their attention that their behaviour is unacceptable? --Blackmane (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes. But I like giving final warnings beforehand. I'll be watching the user for a while - if their behaviour doesn't change, they'll be blocked. m.o.p 19:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Isn't there usually a case to indef block an editor if they're refusing to communicate with others if only to get their attention that their behaviour is unacceptable? --Blackmane (talk) 18:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Main issue is that the user doesn't appear to know or care that what they are doing is disruptive to the site. Hoops has been offered a mentor on more than one occasion and has never shown any interest in this - in fact has never even responded to inquiries about it. Certainly willing to entertain a final chance, though, but chances are probably nothing will improve due to the editor's own lack of interest in the whole situation and a refusal to even acknowledge that a situation even exists. -OberRanks (talk) 17:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- They would also benefit from some encouragement to use the talk pages more. I perused the last 3000 edits and there are barely a handful of edits to talk pages and some are just notices of page moves, so real talk page discussion is probably countable on one hand. --Blackmane (talk) 11:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Jwmarriottjkt
Please could an admin have a friendly word with Special:Contributions/Jwmarriottjkt about COI (already done), minor edits, the username policy and most of all, creatively re-imagining history to detach a company from the attacks on its facilities. Thanks. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given their vehemence over removing any mention of that hotel from articles mentioning the suicide bombing (and coupled with the username), I've indefinitely blocked them for username violation. I'll leave a note on their page explaining why. m.o.p 18:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks. I struggle to get my head around what kind of marketing strategy that was meant to be. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Hearfourmewesique
Hearfourmewesique (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has now three separate times removed comments from a section he has opened at NPOV/N on the basis that he feels that it almost explicitly compares Israelis to Nazis. Forgetting for a second that the comments do not compare Israelis, or anyone else, to Nazis but rather makes a mockery of Hearfourmewesique argument that because somebody "disputes" something that it is not true, Hearfourmewesique feels that he or she has the authority to regulate who may comment and the content of those comments. To combine the disruption of removing another person's comments with edit-warring makes this that much more obvious of an issue requiring admin intervention. nableezy - 19:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
User:SudoGhost, article Bön, and WP:3RR
SudoGhost (talk·contribs) has violated 3RR on article Bön having reverted my move of the article to the name most commonly reflected by the English sources here, and by twice reverting my updating of the body of the article to change the name within the article from "Bön" to "Bon", to remove excess dead links, and to update the incorrectly cited sources (where publication titles spelled "Bon" were misspelled in the citations as "Bön") here and here, all within a 19 hour period.
The user was notified of this ANI here. — Who R you? Talk 06:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, first, there was no 3RR violation, even taking into account the move revert (which I clean forgot about) although it could be argued that there was edit warring between both parties, there is an ongoing discussion on the talk page about this content, and I have no intention of editing the page further, despite the fact that the most recent edit has broken the article subject's category. The appropriate board for 3RR is WP:3RRNB, not WP:ANI. Second, the talk page discussion has the content / article title discussion, so there's no need to rehash that here. I was in the process of partially reverting my last edit (keeping the category and some lede stuff) when the user reverted the content, ironically after pointing the "edit warring" finger my way. - SudoGhost 06:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given that you're both edit-warring, there's not much to be said here. Take it to the talk page and discuss - call an RfC if you must. But, unless you've both agreed on an acceptable action, I'd like it if you didn't make contested edits or reverted each other. Continued warring will result in a block. m.o.p 07:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Interesting to see a claim that "I was in the process of partially reverting my last edit ", when, between the time that I read and responded to the comments on the talk page insinuating that repeated revisions of me were acceptable because he was under the '4 count', and my posting notification on his talk page and posting this notice here, SudoGhost posted this notice warning me of edit warring for my single reversion; but then accusation is often the easiest path.
- It's a shame there's no edit history of this partial self revision that was apparently happening; one would have thought, give that there was time to post all these comments on the talk page's two different sections, to revert me, and to comment on my talk page that there would have been time to include in one of the talk page comments some mention of even a willingness to look at the revisions that had been made; obviously that would have completely changed the tone of the conversations from it's previous course. Up to that point, I had just seen that my edit had been reverted within 4 minutes of my making it (which, incidentally, I'd say had taken me a good 4 hours [on my dead slow system] to check all the linked sources, all the external links, and to review every reference in the article spelled "Bön" [there were I believe 4 and 1 checked out as correct], let alone updating the 100+ misspellings of "Bön" within the article itself). All in all, I'm at a loss as to why there appears to be such dedication to ensuring that every reference to this is systematically misspelled in Wikipedia; baffling; and, of course, like everyone, I dislike being reverted, particularly in a situation where I've invested substantial time and effort to try to ensure that I've dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's, and with the move reversion, I could at least see a plausible reasoning, despite the fact that I don't agree with it, but as for intentionally misspelling something throughout an article... as I said, baffling.
- As to whether this should rightly have been posted at WP:AN3, hind-sight being 20/20, obviously I should have; but then seeing as how Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, I'll leave it for someone (other than SudoGhost) to let me know if they'd like me to copy and paste this conversation over to there (and of course post another user talk page notice for that, since that is the proper bureaucratic procedure); just LMK here. Thx — Who R you? Talk 07:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given Master of Puppets' comments, I'll keep in mind for future edits that proper WP protocol is to repeatedly revert any change made by another user as quickly as possible up the 3 times a day. Meanwhile, I'll spend the hour adding the RfC and RM templates tomorrow as this has already been a big enough pain in the ass for today. — Who R you? Talk 07:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Well that is what I thought, but then I can always just link to this conversation where I've been told by a not-just-new-to-this admin that 3 reverts is just fine and I should go work it out for myself on the talk page and waste my time with RfCs and RMs, which of course I'll do; but I'd say I've got pretty good precedent here to say that 3 intentional reverts to prevent correction of things which are clearly shown and explained to be contrary to cited, verifiable RS is deemed acceptable; so why not repeatedly revert someone and just say, I don't agree with your facts, when it means you get to piss the other guy off and force him to waste his time talking to people about something that they aren't going to do anything about (the definition of bureaucracy). Cheers. — Who R you? Talk 12:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- So your accusation is that I couldn't have been trying to self-revert and instead was edit-warring, because I was too busy discussing? For someone who claims that "accusation is often the easiest path", I'm seeing a lot of rather ironic claims being thrown my way. I'm accused of having an agenda by someone whose editing history and talk page both shows a clear agenda to remove any diacritics from articles for no other reason than that they are present, and I'm being accused of edit-warring by someone who then follows up this claim by edit-warring. - SudoGhost 11:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- As said on the talk page, I follow the (English) RS; if the (English) RS has diacritics, then I type diacritics, if not, then I'll fight to have them removed. I do have a problem with the surprisingly large number of Wikipedians who apparently seem to think they're cool or something and think that they should be added because they used them in a foreign language, but I'm looking for the English WP to be in English (you're obviously not). And wasting someone's time, basically stalling, is not the same as actually saying something intelligent; by repeatedly saying things like, 'the ghits don't mean anything just because there are 300 times as many in the other spelling', or, 'the 3RR rule doesn't say you can't revert three times in a row and what you're quoting is from the WP:EW (edit warring) section' (but of course it is in fact from the 3RR section). Any a-hole can fart around and waste peoples time with stupid and illogical arguments intented to piss people off so much that they won't even bother; we call them lawyers and politicians (I personally call them the scum of our society). — Who R you? Talk 12:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yet again you say one thing, then do another, ignoring the fact that reliable sources spell something a certain way because you have an issue with diacritics. Don't like the policy I refer to? Just call into question my intellect, and of wasting peoples time "with stupid and illogical arguments intented to piss people off so much that they won't even bother". That way you can just skirt around that pesky article title policy consensus, right? And here I am bothering you with yet another "lawyering" policy. - SudoGhost 12:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I just stumbled across this subpage which pretty much sums up the status of the article (even if the page is 3-years-old). — Who R you? Talk 12:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Comment It's so nice that you two are finally having a discussion that should have taken place long before bringing this to ANI. Go; edit; be nice; follow dispute resolution if needed (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is civil? - SudoGhost 12:27, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I was just coming back here to add to my previous post to say that the 'scum' comment was very much directed at lawyers, and not personally at you SudoGhost, and that I wouldn't want you to think that I was directing that at you; but I'm apparently way to late for that, so for that alone, which it appears you (understandably) thought I was directing at you, I sincerely apologize. As I said, the term was not meant for or directed at you, regardless of how I can understand it would have appears so. That's not to say that you haven't pissed me off in terms of your responses during out talk page conversations and I think that you're intentionally manipulating things to find any excuse around the arguments, but if I were going to call you a bad name I'd come right out and say it (no innuendo or implication involved). And as I said on the talk page (which I don't know if you've added more to or not; either way), we'll just leave it to the RfC/RM and let others decide. And since this is obviously a waste of time, I'll just ignore this page unless someone wants to leave a message on my talk page. — Who R you? Talk 13:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The "scum" comment is far from the only personal attack there, I don't see anything there that isn't a personal attack. As for my intentionally manipulating (which again, is a personal attack), do you mean using Wikipedia policy to back up my comments? I'm sorry if that "pisses you off", but if something is backed up by Wikipedia policy, which is a consensus of Wikipedia editors, I'm going to state that. - SudoGhost 13:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'd appreciate if you guys could stop focusing on each others' perceived faults and work on the article instead. As in, discuss content, not the other editor. If anybody's looking for more detail on what that means, please feel free to ask on my talk page. m.o.p 14:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The "scum" comment is far from the only personal attack there, I don't see anything there that isn't a personal attack. As for my intentionally manipulating (which again, is a personal attack), do you mean using Wikipedia policy to back up my comments? I'm sorry if that "pisses you off", but if something is backed up by Wikipedia policy, which is a consensus of Wikipedia editors, I'm going to state that. - SudoGhost 13:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I’ve added a post on the article’s talk page (∆ edit here) asking the combatants to just get on with the task of presenting evidence for how the RSs handle the spelling, which is how those two should have resolved it in the first place. Questioning whether the other has ever seen the inside of a classroom just results in wasted time at ANIs. Debating How Wikipedia Can Best Lead The Way To A New English Language Of the Future®™© is verboten. Bring on hard evidence of what the preponderance of most-reliable RSs are doing with regard to spelling the word, debate (civilly), be patient so others have an opportunity to weigh in if you can’t agree as to the basic facts, and let the community arrive at a consensus. Greg L (talk) 16:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Last time I checked, calling editors "combatants" and comparing us to this image isn't exactly helping. - SudoGhost 18:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Gee, I’m sorry, SudoGhos. The image was intended as a humorous reference to us all—not just you. That’s why it was linked to “as mere wikipedians.” I too clearly am a wikipedian. The intent of the image was to humorously (at least try to) drive home the fact that as mere wikipedians (an all-volunteer army of non-experts in a collaborative writing environment), we can’t possibly pretend that it is within our purview to flout the RSs. Instead, we look to reliable sources for guidance and follow them. How do the preponderance of most-reliable, English-language sources spell “Bon”?
After seeing your latest rant over there, you seem to have driven the nail in the coffin that the practices of the RSs are sufficiently clear; even The Bon Foundation themselves spell it without the diacritic when communicating in English.
You seem overly anxious to take offense here now that you are embroiled at an ANI and the combativeness you exhibited here on the talk page shows you might best consider a taking some time to cool off. My message point there was plain as day but you didn’t like the message point. I suggested you two stop acting combative and stop attacking each other. I stated that the dispute is best decided one way: by bringing forth evidence of what the RSs are doing and settle it that way. Your response? To attack me. Your taking a stand in defiance of the RSs calls into question the manner in which you are going about trying to achieve your ends. Greg L (talk) 20:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Then you may want to consider than text as read is not the same as words as spoken, because your "suggestion" mixed with your "humor" came across as passive-agressive, belittling the two of us, which was unhelpful, to say the least. It seems you're not reading the talk page, because there is no "defiance of the RSs". There are two different discussions on the talk page, one about Bon as used as the common name (which I am not disagreeing with, something you seem to be confused about), and then there is the discussion about natural versus parenthetical disambiguation, something WP:PRECISE is very clear about, yet there seems to be a communication issue because these two discussions are getting crossed. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- You seem to be quickly getting embroiled with every editor who disagrees with you on points of fact. You might look into cause & effect. And please take the time to properly sign your posts and properly indent them. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 20:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a vague statement that doesn't reflect the talk page, which is perhaps just because the talk page has a lot going on, which understandably makes it tedious to read. There's nothing here for an admin to do, so anything related to the article's subject should be directed there, and anything regarding myself should be presented at my talk page. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, good. I’m glad you changed your mind and refactored your previous post. When editors you have never previously encountered come here to offer constructive criticism, and you quote their critical commentary and append This appears to be something you wrote for yourself to read. I'll take it as such, it comes across strikingly similar to “I know you are but what am I?” I thought you could do better than that. To start with, you need not be so combative whenever people disagree with you. I also strongly suggest you refrain from 3RR violations in the future or you will keep on finding yourself the subject of ANIs. 3RR violations are the source of serious discord on Wikipedia and are borne out of a lack of good-faith discussion on talk pages and are often a harbinger that an editor is unwilling to abide by consensus. Greg L (talk) 18:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a vague statement that doesn't reflect the talk page, which is perhaps just because the talk page has a lot going on, which understandably makes it tedious to read. There's nothing here for an admin to do, so anything related to the article's subject should be directed there, and anything regarding myself should be presented at my talk page. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- You seem to be quickly getting embroiled with every editor who disagrees with you on points of fact. You might look into cause & effect. And please take the time to properly sign your posts and properly indent them. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 20:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Then you may want to consider than text as read is not the same as words as spoken, because your "suggestion" mixed with your "humor" came across as passive-agressive, belittling the two of us, which was unhelpful, to say the least. It seems you're not reading the talk page, because there is no "defiance of the RSs". There are two different discussions on the talk page, one about Bon as used as the common name (which I am not disagreeing with, something you seem to be confused about), and then there is the discussion about natural versus parenthetical disambiguation, something WP:PRECISE is very clear about, yet there seems to be a communication issue because these two discussions are getting crossed. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Gee, I’m sorry, SudoGhos. The image was intended as a humorous reference to us all—not just you. That’s why it was linked to “as mere wikipedians.” I too clearly am a wikipedian. The intent of the image was to humorously (at least try to) drive home the fact that as mere wikipedians (an all-volunteer army of non-experts in a collaborative writing environment), we can’t possibly pretend that it is within our purview to flout the RSs. Instead, we look to reliable sources for guidance and follow them. How do the preponderance of most-reliable, English-language sources spell “Bon”?
I don't doubt that you intended well, but your execution missed the mark somewhat. Also, as you'll notice, there was no 3RR violation, and unless you can provide diffs to show otherwise, I'd appreciate it if you looked into things more fully before you commented. There was also no lack of discussion on the talk page at any point of time, something you've yet again seemed to overlook. The original diff you provide above was referencing the fact that you entered the talk page without reading fully what was going on (which seems to be a recurring pattern here), and started arguing without reading, thus your statement ironically seemed to apply to you as much as anyone else. - SudoGhost 18:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I intended well: to get something through to you about properly not getting into editwars with other editors and assuming good faith instead of getting combative beyond all comprehension. You seem to not be listening and reverting back to your same habits. The evidence for your 3RR violation is in the complainant’s post at the start (with three diffs). Your arguing that you forgot about the first one and—even if you hadn’t forgotten about it—it was a different sort of edit and doesn’t count, just doesn’t cut it. The editwarring is all over the same issue and you were intent on battling it out in articlespace rather than discuss and arrive at a community consensus. When I jumped in on the talk page and asked that you two merely provide evidence as to what the preponderance of most-reliable English-language RSs were doing so we can follow the RSs, you immediately got hostile and combative with me. You apparently are intent on doing what SudoGhost wants rather than abide by fundamental policies guiding how Wikipedia works. User: Who R you? was clearly trying to get that article into conformance. And when you try to justify your positions with links to guidelines and policy pages, a reading of what is actually there doesn’t support your position. We don’t need that sort of attitude in a collaborative writing environment. You best start listening more and engaging in editwarring less. Greg L (talk) 18:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Motion to act or close Further discussions with SudoGhost seem unlikely to get much of anything accomplished given this editor’s propensity to taunt editors this way. (This appears to be something you wrote for yourself to read. I'll take it as such.) I request that an admin merely look at the complainant’s first post, examine the diffs to see if there is merit to the allegation of a 3RR violation, and take it from there. Greg L (talk) 18:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- You're saying a whole lot of things that seem very dire, but providing diffs for none of them, and none of them appear to be even close to the mark. As for assuming good faith, I suggest you assume the assumption of good faith, especially because I said right above your response that I did so. There is no evidence for 3RR, and three diffs is not a 3RR violation, and never was. I also never said it was a different sort of edit and doesn't count. I was edit warring, and never denied it, but that issue was solved before it ever got to ANI, the only real issue was two editors frustrated with one another, something that has been resolved, and yet here we are still, and I think I figured out why. You seem to have an extensive history of combatative behavior and incivility, and I appear to have walked right into it, through my own fault. Thank you for the warnings and advice, they have been heeded and will be taken into consideration in the future. Unless anyone can provide a diff of anything that requires an administrator's attention, I apologize for my behavior which was uncalled for. I also would kindly request that this thread be closed, and that any discussions about myself that do not require immediate administrator's attention be directed to my talk page, and that any discussions related to the editing of Bön be directed to Talk:Bön. Thank you. - SudoGhost 19:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- As stated, I was going to just ignore this, but a thread of a thread brought me back, so simply a comment: it seems crystal clear, from SudoGhost's comments here and here, here, here, and here, that he believes it is completely acceptable, and presumably will continue, to revert 3 times / day in expectation of complete immunity; however if, as I believe BWilkins' first comment (above) supports my understanding, 4 reverts indisputably demands a block as punishment, and less than 4 would invite a range of responses from mere admonishment to a block (length based upon considered judgment of all other factors), would anyone care to explain why admins' responses here have ranged from 'too bad, so sad, work it out for yourself' to warning me of a potential block (I having made 1 reversion in this case and, I believe, a total of three [not directly resultant of obvious vandalism] in my entire time on WP). While I have no need for a pound of flesh over any of this, particularly in light of SudoGhost's recent effort at reconciliation, the question must still be asked: Was anyone planning on doing / saying anything to attempt to ensure that SudoGhost doesn't, in future situations, pursue a similar pattern of repeated (less than 4/day) reversions? — Who R you? Talk 01:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I had hoped this was resolved. Those comments were not my trying to say that edit warring was acceptable, and there's nothing in those edits that suggest otherwise. The point I was trying to make was that 3RR is a type of edit warring, and that the terms are not interchangeable. This diff you gave above (just as an example), was in response to these accusations of a 3RR violation, something that did not occur. These were accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence, as there was no evidence provided that shows any 3RR violation. The diff you gave does not in any way suggest that edit warring is acceptable, only that there was no 3RR violation. This diff you gave above I believe makes my point clear: that I was not technically edit warring, I was edit warring, pure and simple. As were you (which is a different number of reversions than you suggested above). This diff was in response to the "see you in WP:ANI for WP:3RR" above it, which again was the point I was trying to make, that there was no 3RR violation, and that the terms 3RR and edit warring are not interchangeable. The other two diffs you provided are the same thing, I was trying to say that 3RR and edit warring are not interchangeable.
- As stated, I was going to just ignore this, but a thread of a thread brought me back, so simply a comment: it seems crystal clear, from SudoGhost's comments here and here, here, here, and here, that he believes it is completely acceptable, and presumably will continue, to revert 3 times / day in expectation of complete immunity; however if, as I believe BWilkins' first comment (above) supports my understanding, 4 reverts indisputably demands a block as punishment, and less than 4 would invite a range of responses from mere admonishment to a block (length based upon considered judgment of all other factors), would anyone care to explain why admins' responses here have ranged from 'too bad, so sad, work it out for yourself' to warning me of a potential block (I having made 1 reversion in this case and, I believe, a total of three [not directly resultant of obvious vandalism] in my entire time on WP). While I have no need for a pound of flesh over any of this, particularly in light of SudoGhost's recent effort at reconciliation, the question must still be asked: Was anyone planning on doing / saying anything to attempt to ensure that SudoGhost doesn't, in future situations, pursue a similar pattern of repeated (less than 4/day) reversions? — Who R you? Talk 01:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- None of these suggest that edit warring is acceptable, only that I was not in violation of 3RR. That edit warring happened and a talk page discussion resolved it with no other action required is not evidence of intent to edit war further. Otherwise, your question would otherwise need to be answered for yourself as well, as you declared an intent to report me for edit warring, and your very next edit was to continue to edit war. However, I'm not suggesting that this shows any intent on your part to edit war in the future, only that the pendulum swings both ways. Fortunately, this is not a pendulum that needs to do anything. However, to ease any concerns that there was no discussion about this, m.o.p. and I discussed this on IRC, and I clearly acknowledged that I was in the wrong and had no intention of doing so again. I'll gladly repeat this here: I completely understand that I was edit warring, and never contested that fact. I completely understand that edit warring is not acceptable and is disruptive, and have never contested that fact. I have no intention of edit warring further, and have never made any indication that one may edit war "up to" a certain number of times. This was rather something Who R you? himself said, and I'm unsure how this declaration was then applied to myself as if I said or suggested anything of the sort.
- The only thing that is "crystal clear" by those diffs is the fact that I believe that 3RR is more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period, and that anything less than that is not a 3RR violation. There is no suggestion of the acceptability of edit warring found in those diffs, and any assertion otherwise is speculation based on an editor's opinion. Please assume good faith in regards to my editing, as I fully intend to do the same with others. Thank you. - SudoGhost 03:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- My obvious (and stupid) mistake for thinking that I had only reverted once; the second time having (at the time) been in response to what I took as SudoGhost's asserting that 3 reverts were just fine. But, I certainly don't condone my edit warring as being any more acceptable than anyone else's.
- My concern, at the time of my post here earlier today, was that SudoGhost believed that reverting 3 times was ok so long as it didn't involve a 4th; (coupled with my perception of the totality of responses to the matter here). Given SudoGhost's confirmation above that he doesn't view 3 reverts as acceptable (which was obviously how I had incorrectly taken his comments), I think it's appropriate to close this discussion as resolved. I'm satisfied SudoGhost doesn't perceive this as proper conduct which he intends to continue pursuing, which was my concern. And I'll certainly also attempt to live up to my own standards in this regard.
- Thank you all (particularly m.o.p.) for your time and attention. — Who R you? Talk 05:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Lihaas
| User blocked for a week, tangential discussion closed - nothing left to see here. |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
| I'll try and keep this brief. The other day, I noted a nomination by Lihaas (talk · contribs) at WP:ITNC was posted on the wrong date [191]. So to get back at me, he undid one of my revisions on the page marking a seperate nomination as ready [192] (it was eventually posted by an admin). Later on, another editor moved the nomination to the right day [193] but Lihaas later red-added it [194] and decided to take a shot at me unnecessarily [195]. So I warned him not to do it and explained that he was wrong in assuming I moved it [196]. In response, he made this somewhat threatening response [197] and now he's comparing me to deposed dictators [198]. Hot Stop talk-contribs 21:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz now blocked for 24 hours for continued discussion of the "national-socialist" issue after ample warning. Fram (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC) |
User:SudoGhost, article Bön, and WP:3RR
SudoGhost (talk·contribs) has violated 3RR on article Bön having reverted my move of the article to the name most commonly reflected by the English sources here, and by twice reverting my updating of the body of the article to change the name within the article from "Bön" to "Bon", to remove excess dead links, and to update the incorrectly cited sources (where publication titles spelled "Bon" were misspelled in the citations as "Bön") here and here, all within a 19 hour period.
The user was notified of this ANI here. — Who R you? Talk 06:16, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, first, there was no 3RR violation, even taking into account the move revert (which I clean forgot about) although it could be argued that there was edit warring between both parties, there is an ongoing discussion on the talk page about this content, and I have no intention of editing the page further, despite the fact that the most recent edit has broken the article subject's category. The appropriate board for 3RR is WP:3RRNB, not WP:ANI. Second, the talk page discussion has the content / article title discussion, so there's no need to rehash that here. I was in the process of partially reverting my last edit (keeping the category and some lede stuff) when the user reverted the content, ironically after pointing the "edit warring" finger my way. - SudoGhost 06:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given that you're both edit-warring, there's not much to be said here. Take it to the talk page and discuss - call an RfC if you must. But, unless you've both agreed on an acceptable action, I'd like it if you didn't make contested edits or reverted each other. Continued warring will result in a block. m.o.p 07:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Interesting to see a claim that "I was in the process of partially reverting my last edit ", when, between the time that I read and responded to the comments on the talk page insinuating that repeated revisions of me were acceptable because he was under the '4 count', and my posting notification on his talk page and posting this notice here, SudoGhost posted this notice warning me of edit warring for my single reversion; but then accusation is often the easiest path.
- It's a shame there's no edit history of this partial self revision that was apparently happening; one would have thought, give that there was time to post all these comments on the talk page's two different sections, to revert me, and to comment on my talk page that there would have been time to include in one of the talk page comments some mention of even a willingness to look at the revisions that had been made; obviously that would have completely changed the tone of the conversations from it's previous course. Up to that point, I had just seen that my edit had been reverted within 4 minutes of my making it (which, incidentally, I'd say had taken me a good 4 hours [on my dead slow system] to check all the linked sources, all the external links, and to review every reference in the article spelled "Bön" [there were I believe 4 and 1 checked out as correct], let alone updating the 100+ misspellings of "Bön" within the article itself). All in all, I'm at a loss as to why there appears to be such dedication to ensuring that every reference to this is systematically misspelled in Wikipedia; baffling; and, of course, like everyone, I dislike being reverted, particularly in a situation where I've invested substantial time and effort to try to ensure that I've dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's, and with the move reversion, I could at least see a plausible reasoning, despite the fact that I don't agree with it, but as for intentionally misspelling something throughout an article... as I said, baffling.
- As to whether this should rightly have been posted at WP:AN3, hind-sight being 20/20, obviously I should have; but then seeing as how Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy, I'll leave it for someone (other than SudoGhost) to let me know if they'd like me to copy and paste this conversation over to there (and of course post another user talk page notice for that, since that is the proper bureaucratic procedure); just LMK here. Thx — Who R you? Talk 07:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given Master of Puppets' comments, I'll keep in mind for future edits that proper WP protocol is to repeatedly revert any change made by another user as quickly as possible up the 3 times a day. Meanwhile, I'll spend the hour adding the RfC and RM templates tomorrow as this has already been a big enough pain in the ass for today. — Who R you? Talk 07:48, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Well that is what I thought, but then I can always just link to this conversation where I've been told by a not-just-new-to-this admin that 3 reverts is just fine and I should go work it out for myself on the talk page and waste my time with RfCs and RMs, which of course I'll do; but I'd say I've got pretty good precedent here to say that 3 intentional reverts to prevent correction of things which are clearly shown and explained to be contrary to cited, verifiable RS is deemed acceptable; so why not repeatedly revert someone and just say, I don't agree with your facts, when it means you get to piss the other guy off and force him to waste his time talking to people about something that they aren't going to do anything about (the definition of bureaucracy). Cheers. — Who R you? Talk 12:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- So your accusation is that I couldn't have been trying to self-revert and instead was edit-warring, because I was too busy discussing? For someone who claims that "accusation is often the easiest path", I'm seeing a lot of rather ironic claims being thrown my way. I'm accused of having an agenda by someone whose editing history and talk page both shows a clear agenda to remove any diacritics from articles for no other reason than that they are present, and I'm being accused of edit-warring by someone who then follows up this claim by edit-warring. - SudoGhost 11:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- As said on the talk page, I follow the (English) RS; if the (English) RS has diacritics, then I type diacritics, if not, then I'll fight to have them removed. I do have a problem with the surprisingly large number of Wikipedians who apparently seem to think they're cool or something and think that they should be added because they used them in a foreign language, but I'm looking for the English WP to be in English (you're obviously not). And wasting someone's time, basically stalling, is not the same as actually saying something intelligent; by repeatedly saying things like, 'the ghits don't mean anything just because there are 300 times as many in the other spelling', or, 'the 3RR rule doesn't say you can't revert three times in a row and what you're quoting is from the WP:EW (edit warring) section' (but of course it is in fact from the 3RR section). Any a-hole can fart around and waste peoples time with stupid and illogical arguments intented to piss people off so much that they won't even bother; we call them lawyers and politicians (I personally call them the scum of our society). — Who R you? Talk 12:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yet again you say one thing, then do another, ignoring the fact that reliable sources spell something a certain way because you have an issue with diacritics. Don't like the policy I refer to? Just call into question my intellect, and of wasting peoples time "with stupid and illogical arguments intented to piss people off so much that they won't even bother". That way you can just skirt around that pesky article title policy consensus, right? And here I am bothering you with yet another "lawyering" policy. - SudoGhost 12:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I just stumbled across this subpage which pretty much sums up the status of the article (even if the page is 3-years-old). — Who R you? Talk 12:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Comment It's so nice that you two are finally having a discussion that should have taken place long before bringing this to ANI. Go; edit; be nice; follow dispute resolution if needed (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is civil? - SudoGhost 12:27, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I was just coming back here to add to my previous post to say that the 'scum' comment was very much directed at lawyers, and not personally at you SudoGhost, and that I wouldn't want you to think that I was directing that at you; but I'm apparently way to late for that, so for that alone, which it appears you (understandably) thought I was directing at you, I sincerely apologize. As I said, the term was not meant for or directed at you, regardless of how I can understand it would have appears so. That's not to say that you haven't pissed me off in terms of your responses during out talk page conversations and I think that you're intentionally manipulating things to find any excuse around the arguments, but if I were going to call you a bad name I'd come right out and say it (no innuendo or implication involved). And as I said on the talk page (which I don't know if you've added more to or not; either way), we'll just leave it to the RfC/RM and let others decide. And since this is obviously a waste of time, I'll just ignore this page unless someone wants to leave a message on my talk page. — Who R you? Talk 13:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The "scum" comment is far from the only personal attack there, I don't see anything there that isn't a personal attack. As for my intentionally manipulating (which again, is a personal attack), do you mean using Wikipedia policy to back up my comments? I'm sorry if that "pisses you off", but if something is backed up by Wikipedia policy, which is a consensus of Wikipedia editors, I'm going to state that. - SudoGhost 13:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'd appreciate if you guys could stop focusing on each others' perceived faults and work on the article instead. As in, discuss content, not the other editor. If anybody's looking for more detail on what that means, please feel free to ask on my talk page. m.o.p 14:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- The "scum" comment is far from the only personal attack there, I don't see anything there that isn't a personal attack. As for my intentionally manipulating (which again, is a personal attack), do you mean using Wikipedia policy to back up my comments? I'm sorry if that "pisses you off", but if something is backed up by Wikipedia policy, which is a consensus of Wikipedia editors, I'm going to state that. - SudoGhost 13:19, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
I’ve added a post on the article’s talk page (∆ edit here) asking the combatants to just get on with the task of presenting evidence for how the RSs handle the spelling, which is how those two should have resolved it in the first place. Questioning whether the other has ever seen the inside of a classroom just results in wasted time at ANIs. Debating How Wikipedia Can Best Lead The Way To A New English Language Of the Future®™© is verboten. Bring on hard evidence of what the preponderance of most-reliable RSs are doing with regard to spelling the word, debate (civilly), be patient so others have an opportunity to weigh in if you can’t agree as to the basic facts, and let the community arrive at a consensus. Greg L (talk) 16:17, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Last time I checked, calling editors "combatants" and comparing us to this image isn't exactly helping. - SudoGhost 18:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Gee, I’m sorry, SudoGhos. The image was intended as a humorous reference to us all—not just you. That’s why it was linked to “as mere wikipedians.” I too clearly am a wikipedian. The intent of the image was to humorously (at least try to) drive home the fact that as mere wikipedians (an all-volunteer army of non-experts in a collaborative writing environment), we can’t possibly pretend that it is within our purview to flout the RSs. Instead, we look to reliable sources for guidance and follow them. How do the preponderance of most-reliable, English-language sources spell “Bon”?
After seeing your latest rant over there, you seem to have driven the nail in the coffin that the practices of the RSs are sufficiently clear; even The Bon Foundation themselves spell it without the diacritic when communicating in English.
You seem overly anxious to take offense here now that you are embroiled at an ANI and the combativeness you exhibited here on the talk page shows you might best consider a taking some time to cool off. My message point there was plain as day but you didn’t like the message point. I suggested you two stop acting combative and stop attacking each other. I stated that the dispute is best decided one way: by bringing forth evidence of what the RSs are doing and settle it that way. Your response? To attack me. Your taking a stand in defiance of the RSs calls into question the manner in which you are going about trying to achieve your ends. Greg L (talk) 20:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Then you may want to consider than text as read is not the same as words as spoken, because your "suggestion" mixed with your "humor" came across as passive-agressive, belittling the two of us, which was unhelpful, to say the least. It seems you're not reading the talk page, because there is no "defiance of the RSs". There are two different discussions on the talk page, one about Bon as used as the common name (which I am not disagreeing with, something you seem to be confused about), and then there is the discussion about natural versus parenthetical disambiguation, something WP:PRECISE is very clear about, yet there seems to be a communication issue because these two discussions are getting crossed. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- You seem to be quickly getting embroiled with every editor who disagrees with you on points of fact. You might look into cause & effect. And please take the time to properly sign your posts and properly indent them. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 20:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a vague statement that doesn't reflect the talk page, which is perhaps just because the talk page has a lot going on, which understandably makes it tedious to read. There's nothing here for an admin to do, so anything related to the article's subject should be directed there, and anything regarding myself should be presented at my talk page. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, good. I’m glad you changed your mind and refactored your previous post. When editors you have never previously encountered come here to offer constructive criticism, and you quote their critical commentary and append This appears to be something you wrote for yourself to read. I'll take it as such, it comes across strikingly similar to “I know you are but what am I?” I thought you could do better than that. To start with, you need not be so combative whenever people disagree with you. I also strongly suggest you refrain from 3RR violations in the future or you will keep on finding yourself the subject of ANIs. 3RR violations are the source of serious discord on Wikipedia and are borne out of a lack of good-faith discussion on talk pages and are often a harbinger that an editor is unwilling to abide by consensus. Greg L (talk) 18:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a vague statement that doesn't reflect the talk page, which is perhaps just because the talk page has a lot going on, which understandably makes it tedious to read. There's nothing here for an admin to do, so anything related to the article's subject should be directed there, and anything regarding myself should be presented at my talk page. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- You seem to be quickly getting embroiled with every editor who disagrees with you on points of fact. You might look into cause & effect. And please take the time to properly sign your posts and properly indent them. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 20:24, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Then you may want to consider than text as read is not the same as words as spoken, because your "suggestion" mixed with your "humor" came across as passive-agressive, belittling the two of us, which was unhelpful, to say the least. It seems you're not reading the talk page, because there is no "defiance of the RSs". There are two different discussions on the talk page, one about Bon as used as the common name (which I am not disagreeing with, something you seem to be confused about), and then there is the discussion about natural versus parenthetical disambiguation, something WP:PRECISE is very clear about, yet there seems to be a communication issue because these two discussions are getting crossed. - SudoGhost 20:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
- Gee, I’m sorry, SudoGhos. The image was intended as a humorous reference to us all—not just you. That’s why it was linked to “as mere wikipedians.” I too clearly am a wikipedian. The intent of the image was to humorously (at least try to) drive home the fact that as mere wikipedians (an all-volunteer army of non-experts in a collaborative writing environment), we can’t possibly pretend that it is within our purview to flout the RSs. Instead, we look to reliable sources for guidance and follow them. How do the preponderance of most-reliable, English-language sources spell “Bon”?
I don't doubt that you intended well, but your execution missed the mark somewhat. Also, as you'll notice, there was no 3RR violation, and unless you can provide diffs to show otherwise, I'd appreciate it if you looked into things more fully before you commented. There was also no lack of discussion on the talk page at any point of time, something you've yet again seemed to overlook. The original diff you provide above was referencing the fact that you entered the talk page without reading fully what was going on (which seems to be a recurring pattern here), and started arguing without reading, thus your statement ironically seemed to apply to you as much as anyone else. - SudoGhost 18:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I intended well: to get something through to you about properly not getting into editwars with other editors and assuming good faith instead of getting combative beyond all comprehension. You seem to not be listening and reverting back to your same habits. The evidence for your 3RR violation is in the complainant’s post at the start (with three diffs). Your arguing that you forgot about the first one and—even if you hadn’t forgotten about it—it was a different sort of edit and doesn’t count, just doesn’t cut it. The editwarring is all over the same issue and you were intent on battling it out in articlespace rather than discuss and arrive at a community consensus. When I jumped in on the talk page and asked that you two merely provide evidence as to what the preponderance of most-reliable English-language RSs were doing so we can follow the RSs, you immediately got hostile and combative with me. You apparently are intent on doing what SudoGhost wants rather than abide by fundamental policies guiding how Wikipedia works. User: Who R you? was clearly trying to get that article into conformance. And when you try to justify your positions with links to guidelines and policy pages, a reading of what is actually there doesn’t support your position. We don’t need that sort of attitude in a collaborative writing environment. You best start listening more and engaging in editwarring less. Greg L (talk) 18:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Motion to act or close Further discussions with SudoGhost seem unlikely to get much of anything accomplished given this editor’s propensity to taunt editors this way. (This appears to be something you wrote for yourself to read. I'll take it as such.) I request that an admin merely look at the complainant’s first post, examine the diffs to see if there is merit to the allegation of a 3RR violation, and take it from there. Greg L (talk) 18:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- You're saying a whole lot of things that seem very dire, but providing diffs for none of them, and none of them appear to be even close to the mark. As for assuming good faith, I suggest you assume the assumption of good faith, especially because I said right above your response that I did so. There is no evidence for 3RR, and three diffs is not a 3RR violation, and never was. I also never said it was a different sort of edit and doesn't count. I was edit warring, and never denied it, but that issue was solved before it ever got to ANI, the only real issue was two editors frustrated with one another, something that has been resolved, and yet here we are still, and I think I figured out why. You seem to have an extensive history of combatative behavior and incivility, and I appear to have walked right into it, through my own fault. Thank you for the warnings and advice, they have been heeded and will be taken into consideration in the future. Unless anyone can provide a diff of anything that requires an administrator's attention, I apologize for my behavior which was uncalled for. I also would kindly request that this thread be closed, and that any discussions about myself that do not require immediate administrator's attention be directed to my talk page, and that any discussions related to the editing of Bön be directed to Talk:Bön. Thank you. - SudoGhost 19:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- As stated, I was going to just ignore this, but a thread of a thread brought me back, so simply a comment: it seems crystal clear, from SudoGhost's comments here and here, here, here, and here, that he believes it is completely acceptable, and presumably will continue, to revert 3 times / day in expectation of complete immunity; however if, as I believe BWilkins' first comment (above) supports my understanding, 4 reverts indisputably demands a block as punishment, and less than 4 would invite a range of responses from mere admonishment to a block (length based upon considered judgment of all other factors), would anyone care to explain why admins' responses here have ranged from 'too bad, so sad, work it out for yourself' to warning me of a potential block (I having made 1 reversion in this case and, I believe, a total of three [not directly resultant of obvious vandalism] in my entire time on WP). While I have no need for a pound of flesh over any of this, particularly in light of SudoGhost's recent effort at reconciliation, the question must still be asked: Was anyone planning on doing / saying anything to attempt to ensure that SudoGhost doesn't, in future situations, pursue a similar pattern of repeated (less than 4/day) reversions? — Who R you? Talk 01:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I had hoped this was resolved. Those comments were not my trying to say that edit warring was acceptable, and there's nothing in those edits that suggest otherwise. The point I was trying to make was that 3RR is a type of edit warring, and that the terms are not interchangeable. This diff you gave above (just as an example), was in response to these accusations of a 3RR violation, something that did not occur. These were accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence, as there was no evidence provided that shows any 3RR violation. The diff you gave does not in any way suggest that edit warring is acceptable, only that there was no 3RR violation. This diff you gave above I believe makes my point clear: that I was not technically edit warring, I was edit warring, pure and simple. As were you (which is a different number of reversions than you suggested above). This diff was in response to the "see you in WP:ANI for WP:3RR" above it, which again was the point I was trying to make, that there was no 3RR violation, and that the terms 3RR and edit warring are not interchangeable. The other two diffs you provided are the same thing, I was trying to say that 3RR and edit warring are not interchangeable.
- As stated, I was going to just ignore this, but a thread of a thread brought me back, so simply a comment: it seems crystal clear, from SudoGhost's comments here and here, here, here, and here, that he believes it is completely acceptable, and presumably will continue, to revert 3 times / day in expectation of complete immunity; however if, as I believe BWilkins' first comment (above) supports my understanding, 4 reverts indisputably demands a block as punishment, and less than 4 would invite a range of responses from mere admonishment to a block (length based upon considered judgment of all other factors), would anyone care to explain why admins' responses here have ranged from 'too bad, so sad, work it out for yourself' to warning me of a potential block (I having made 1 reversion in this case and, I believe, a total of three [not directly resultant of obvious vandalism] in my entire time on WP). While I have no need for a pound of flesh over any of this, particularly in light of SudoGhost's recent effort at reconciliation, the question must still be asked: Was anyone planning on doing / saying anything to attempt to ensure that SudoGhost doesn't, in future situations, pursue a similar pattern of repeated (less than 4/day) reversions? — Who R you? Talk 01:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- None of these suggest that edit warring is acceptable, only that I was not in violation of 3RR. That edit warring happened and a talk page discussion resolved it with no other action required is not evidence of intent to edit war further. Otherwise, your question would otherwise need to be answered for yourself as well, as you declared an intent to report me for edit warring, and your very next edit was to continue to edit war. However, I'm not suggesting that this shows any intent on your part to edit war in the future, only that the pendulum swings both ways. Fortunately, this is not a pendulum that needs to do anything. However, to ease any concerns that there was no discussion about this, m.o.p. and I discussed this on IRC, and I clearly acknowledged that I was in the wrong and had no intention of doing so again. I'll gladly repeat this here: I completely understand that I was edit warring, and never contested that fact. I completely understand that edit warring is not acceptable and is disruptive, and have never contested that fact. I have no intention of edit warring further, and have never made any indication that one may edit war "up to" a certain number of times. This was rather something Who R you? himself said, and I'm unsure how this declaration was then applied to myself as if I said or suggested anything of the sort.
- The only thing that is "crystal clear" by those diffs is the fact that I believe that 3RR is more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period, and that anything less than that is not a 3RR violation. There is no suggestion of the acceptability of edit warring found in those diffs, and any assertion otherwise is speculation based on an editor's opinion. Please assume good faith in regards to my editing, as I fully intend to do the same with others. Thank you. - SudoGhost 03:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- My obvious (and stupid) mistake for thinking that I had only reverted once; the second time having (at the time) been in response to what I took as SudoGhost's asserting that 3 reverts were just fine. But, I certainly don't condone my edit warring as being any more acceptable than anyone else's.
- My concern, at the time of my post here earlier today, was that SudoGhost believed that reverting 3 times was ok so long as it didn't involve a 4th; (coupled with my perception of the totality of responses to the matter here). Given SudoGhost's confirmation above that he doesn't view 3 reverts as acceptable (which was obviously how I had incorrectly taken his comments), I think it's appropriate to close this discussion as resolved. I'm satisfied SudoGhost doesn't perceive this as proper conduct which he intends to continue pursuing, which was my concern. And I'll certainly also attempt to live up to my own standards in this regard.
- Thank you all (particularly m.o.p.) for your time and attention. — Who R you? Talk 05:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Lihaas
| User blocked for a week, tangential discussion closed - nothing left to see here. |
|---|
| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
| I'll try and keep this brief. The other day, I noted a nomination by Lihaas (talk · contribs) at WP:ITNC was posted on the wrong date [199]. So to get back at me, he undid one of my revisions on the page marking a seperate nomination as ready [200] (it was eventually posted by an admin). Later on, another editor moved the nomination to the right day [201] but Lihaas later red-added it [202] and decided to take a shot at me unnecessarily [203]. So I warned him not to do it and explained that he was wrong in assuming I moved it [204]. In response, he made this somewhat threatening response [205] and now he's comparing me to deposed dictators [206]. Hot Stop talk-contribs 21:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Kiefer.Wolfowitz now blocked for 24 hours for continued discussion of the "national-socialist" issue after ample warning. Fram (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC) |
Block of Δ by Franamax
| Per statement by Masem causa sui (talk) 17:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Franamax has blocked Δ for allegedly "Violating ArbCom motion at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Betacommand 2". This ArbCom motion bars Δ from "making any edit enforcing the non-free content criteria, broadly construed." The supposed violation is here, where Δ had the audacity to inform Hammersoft of changes to he made to a tool that assists with NFCC checking, which Δ maintains. The edit is not enforcing the NFCC policy in any way. All he did was inform a regular user of his tool of changes he made. He did not remove an non-free image, warn a user about NFCC policy, or otherwise editing a non-free image. There is no violation of his restrictions here. I believe this is a bad block, and it should be overturned. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 04:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Completely agreed, and I have unblocked Δ. - The BushrangerOne ping only 04:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Bushranger, please tell me you didn't unilaterally overturn an AEBLOCK.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- If you look, at Δ's talk page, there is a significant amount of opposition to the block. I do not believe that is unilateral. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 04:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) He did. On the other hand, it was not well-marked as such and there were five administrators on Delta's talk page that had already called the block a poor one. It may not have followed proper procedure, but had this discussion taken place here, that easily would have been consensus to unblock. NW(Talk) 04:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)I looked over the details of the incident and firmly believe that the block should not have been imposed (not that it was imposed in bad faith - merely an (understandable, given Δ's history) overreaction). My opinion was that the consensus, growing, is that Δ did not violate the terms of their enforcement - perhaps it's skirting close to the line, but not over it. If I'm wrong about the consensus, however, I'm open to trouting. - The BushrangerOne ping only 04:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- "I'm blocking you because you violated an ARBCOM restriction" isn't well-marked, NW? And Bushranger, the instructions are clear that the consensus for unblock needs to be formed on a neutral noticeboard, not the blocked editors talkpage. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Excpet he did clearly did not violate it. However, I'll accept a {{trout}}, steer clear of AE in the future, and not admin when sleepy. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- That's right. Not every block that claims to be an AEblock is one. This one wasn't. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 05:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Um, no. It may very well have been a mistaken AE block, but it was a block imposed to deal with a perceived violation of an Arbcom restriction. The instructions at WP:AEBLOCK are quite clear on the subject. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- If it had been {{Uw-aeblock}} properly tagged, I would not have touched it with a 10-foot pole, whether or not it was actually a violation. It was not properly tagged however, and my (admittedly tired) brain didn't completely process that it was anything other than a normal block due to the fact the 'stop sign' of ArbCom wasn't there. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- There was no AE enforcement template. I remarked about this at Bushranger's talk. Dr.K.λogosπraxis 05:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Dr.K, that's completely irrelevant as to whether it was an AE block or not. The instructions don't call for a template, just that it be identified as an AE block. The template is a convenience. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:23, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict × 3) The template contains a serious warning to any admin not to overturn an AE enforcement block. As such it is an important disincentive for any admin to overturn the block. In its absence at least accidental overturns can happen. Bushranger has admitted that he would not have overturned the block if the template were there. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 05:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It would have alerted my amittedly-tired brain to stop before hitting the unblock button automatically upon seeing a clearly bad block (bad in terms of the block, not faith). I'm probably going to self-impose a rule of never unblocking, period, after this. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Honest mistakes aren't really problems.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Honest mistakes aren't really problems.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Dr.K, that's completely irrelevant as to whether it was an AE block or not. The instructions don't call for a template, just that it be identified as an AE block. The template is a convenience. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:23, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- There was no AE enforcement template. I remarked about this at Bushranger's talk. Dr.K.λogosπraxis 05:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- If it had been {{Uw-aeblock}} properly tagged, I would not have touched it with a 10-foot pole, whether or not it was actually a violation. It was not properly tagged however, and my (admittedly tired) brain didn't completely process that it was anything other than a normal block due to the fact the 'stop sign' of ArbCom wasn't there. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Um, no. It may very well have been a mistaken AE block, but it was a block imposed to deal with a perceived violation of an Arbcom restriction. The instructions at WP:AEBLOCK are quite clear on the subject. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:11, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- That's right. Not every block that claims to be an AEblock is one. This one wasn't. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 05:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Excpet he did clearly did not violate it. However, I'll accept a {{trout}}, steer clear of AE in the future, and not admin when sleepy. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- "I'm blocking you because you violated an ARBCOM restriction" isn't well-marked, NW? And Bushranger, the instructions are clear that the consensus for unblock needs to be formed on a neutral noticeboard, not the blocked editors talkpage. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)I looked over the details of the incident and firmly believe that the block should not have been imposed (not that it was imposed in bad faith - merely an (understandable, given Δ's history) overreaction). My opinion was that the consensus, growing, is that Δ did not violate the terms of their enforcement - perhaps it's skirting close to the line, but not over it. If I'm wrong about the consensus, however, I'm open to trouting. - The BushrangerOne ping only 04:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (after e/c after e/c's) WTF?? Where wasn't I clear that I was enforcing an ArbCom motion? Where did the unblocking admin discuss the issue with me? Where was the consenus discussion at a noticeboard? Second-mover advantage indeed. Post e/c - Bushranger, when did the red stop sign become the signal? Will you reinstate the block pending discussion? Franamax (talk) 05:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I was using the stop sign as metaphor for the AE template. If another admin believes the block should be reimposed pending discussion I will not wheel-war. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:20, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Face it, Bushranger: you should be de-sysopped forthwith. You made a possible "mistake", which is unacceptable (as admins are perfect incarnations of editors, and naturally incapable of any error). After you are stripped of your adminship, you are free to re-apply and fail RfA for no good reason whatsoever. Doc talk 05:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I was using the stop sign as metaphor for the AE template. If another admin believes the block should be reimposed pending discussion I will not wheel-war. - The BushrangerOne ping only 05:20, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Bushranger, please tell me you didn't unilaterally overturn an AEBLOCK.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- @Franamax, considering that only you and SarekOfVulcan think this block was appropriate, why should he be reblocked? There was no violation of the ArbCom restrictions, even broadly constructed. @Doc9871, Franamax should also be desysopped for making a bad block which clearly didn't violate Beta's restrictions. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 05:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I _do_ think the block was appropriate, but I don't think it was clearly _in_appropriate.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly, so under the AE rules, he could not be unblocked, which is exactly the problem with claiming that a block is an AE block when in fact it isn't. Count Iblis (talk) 05:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Incorrect. He can't be unblocked "except...following a clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors at a community discussion noticeboard (such as WP:AN or WP:ANI)."--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- So all an admin has to do is block Beta claiming it is because of an ArbCom editing restriction, and presto, Beta stays blocked until the community argues it out. Last time this happened, he served the full 48 hour time period because the discussion took so long to decide it was a bad block. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 05:57, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Even worse, the block would not be overturned, even in this moot way. What Sarek says is true but lookijg at the discussion below, we can see that there isn't the sort of super strong consensus needed to overturn an AE block. Count Iblis (talk) 15:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- So all an admin has to do is block Beta claiming it is because of an ArbCom editing restriction, and presto, Beta stays blocked until the community argues it out. Last time this happened, he served the full 48 hour time period because the discussion took so long to decide it was a bad block. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 05:57, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Incorrect. He can't be unblocked "except...following a clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors at a community discussion noticeboard (such as WP:AN or WP:ANI)."--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly, so under the AE rules, he could not be unblocked, which is exactly the problem with claiming that a block is an AE block when in fact it isn't. Count Iblis (talk) 05:43, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I _do_ think the block was appropriate, but I don't think it was clearly _in_appropriate.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- @Franamax, considering that only you and SarekOfVulcan think this block was appropriate, why should he be reblocked? There was no violation of the ArbCom restrictions, even broadly constructed. @Doc9871, Franamax should also be desysopped for making a bad block which clearly didn't violate Beta's restrictions. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 05:25, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- What's the point of even discussing whether the block was appropriate? It's been undone, anything else will be a wheel war. Immediate unblocking with no discussion just puts it over on me to plead my case - that's not what an enforcement block is supposed to be about.. If the edit didn't concern enforcement of NFCC, what did it concern? (And Iblis, following my temporary network outage, I stated it ss an AE block, where was the noticeboard discussion? Franamax (talk) 05:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- To be completely honest, what happened was this: I saw the post here with the diff about the questionable edit, went to Δ's user page, scanned the discussion there, saw what appeared to be a bad-block consensus, and unblocked via the requesting-unblock template (which shouldn't be used in AEBLOCK cases I guess, but that's another kettle of trout). Due to the fact the AEBLOCK template was missing, it couldn't catch my eye as I looked over the discussion to say "this is an AEBLOCK", not "this is a block because you're restricted" - IIRC there are restrictions from methods other than AE, if I'm wrong about that I'll take another trout - and thus my action. I'll freely admit I'm tired (I don't get much sleep for a variety of reasons I won't go into here) and if I wasn't tired I would have (and should have) spotted the mention of ArbCom, but I didn't. Hence, no more unblocking for me in order to avoid any future sleepy mistakes, and I'll take the heat - and the trout - here for my hasty action. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Bushranger, there is an indication here that you are simply working too fast these days. I saw that DYK talk post sandwiched between several of mine, and in checking your diffs in that time period, I see you did have around 50 edits that hour, several of them on issues requiring significant time to review, that does seem to be your pattern, you did apparently spend less than 5 minutes on that DYK review, and the citation for the hook you verified did in fact have a 404 error due to a typo, so it doesn't appear you could have verified the hook from the citation given. This incident, that DYK review, and your references to not getting much sleep is a long way of saying that perhaps you might consider slowing down lest burnout becomes an issue? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I did check the dates there - I'm not sure what happened. But you are right, I do need to take a deep breath and slow down. I should probably unwatch the "admin pages" (AN/I, UAA, AIV) for a couple of days and focus solely on content, I think. - The BushrangerOne ping only 06:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how you could have verified dates from a link that went nowhere because the typo in the citation caused it to return a 404 error, but how about if you unwatch the admin pages to take a breather, and I'll unwatch the DYK pages for same :) Seems that neither is good for either of us ... now to sleep! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Reviewing the section below as of this time, and the other talk pages etc, I am reasonably convinced that a consensus now exists that the AE block was not good / not consensus supported, though in good faith and with reasonable evidence and judgement at the time.
- Though the AEBLOCK protocol requires that admins not unblock until such a consensus exists, given the subsequent discussion and Bushranger's open and cooperative responses, I think that minnow I left on his page is about the extent of the necessary admin response at this time. The rule is IMHO better served by everyone recognizing it and agreeing not to bend it again than anything else anyone could do.
- Go to bed, Bushranger 8-) Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- With the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, I will note in passing that Franamax could have avoided this mess if he had instead gone through WP:AE. This wasn't an emergency situation; the only reason for the block was to firmly slap Delta's wrists and generate a log entry for a (perceived) violation of his editing restrictions, and that purpose could have equally well been served if the block had followed three hours of discussion instead of preceded it. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps Franamax should have consulted a neutral admin, perhaps one with AE experience, instead of blocking an editor that he/she holds opinions about. If I had just looked at their editing history and seen no comments / neutral comments regarding delta, or extensive AE-related block experience, I would not make the above statement. Syrthiss (talk) 14:16, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Did Δ violate the restriction
- No Informing an
administratoreditor about a change to a report that they have used in the past is not NFCC Enforcement. Even if the topic ban extends to advocacy of of NFCC Enforcement, which no reasonable interpretation of the sanction would suggest, contacting anAdmineditor already known for NFCC Enforcement is not even advocacy. This whole discussion is ridiculous and Δ should not have been blocked. Monty845 05:34, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Umm, do you mean Hammersoft as the ontactee? Hammersoft is not an admin. Franamax (talk) 05:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No there was no violation of his restrictions, per my comments above. Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 05:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No I don't believe so. This seems like a keyword block: Delta mentioned something about NFCC in a post to another user's talk page, and the block came down semi-automatically without any thought apparently given to context. I don't see where anyone could see that he made any attempt or workaround or gamed the system in any way to break his AE restriction. --Jayron32 05:52, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well that's a good spit on my last 2 hours here, semi-automatic, no thought to context. Me who has never used a user warning template and has given all messages by hand, and who has been involved in the calm and rational side of this long-running problem. Once again, if the edit was not to do with NFCC enforcement, then what was it about? It provided a list of targets for NFCC enforcement scrutiny, can we agree on that? What was it's other purpose? Franamax (talk) 06:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I disagree with Jayron - the block was fully good-faith, IMHO. - The BushrangerOne ping only 06:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I never said Franamax did it spitefully or had ill-intent, the block was clearly in good faith. Faith =/= execution, and in this case I think it is clear that this is a poorly executed block. I don't think Franamax meant to make a bad block, so I don't think Franamax acted in bad faith. Acting in good faith is no guarantee of producing good outcome. My reading of this situation is that Delta made no obvious attempt to enforce NFCC or to encourage anyone else to enforce NFCC, and that the only way that I could conceive of Franamax having interpreted the situation that way would be to prevent Delta from even mentioning the concept of NFCC at all, in any way, and I don't think that his editing restrictions go that far. I just don't. You'll not count me as someone in Delta's camp (you can check through the history here, I have never come to his "defense" and am a frequent critic of his behavior). However, in my opinion the facts of this case do not support a block. --Jayron32 06:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- C'mon Jayron, read the diff: "the check link goes to the removal tool" - in context, how is that not directly related to NFCC enforcement? At current reading, the target page has nb links at all, so you'll just have to interpret I suppose. What elsa do you think a "removal tool" could mean in this context? Review the extensive history, this report had been mentioned extensively on-wiki, not least in Beta's own edits, look for "this page has been identified as having excessive use of non-free images" or the like. A group of editors uses this report to launch NFCC battles, and it looks like currency is still at the top, didn't that one get fought into the ground a while ago? Beta can continue their proxy war off-wiki, but not here where they are topic banned. Franamax (talk) 07:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- At which file and/or article did Betacommand enforce the NFCC policy? Which file did he tell Hammersoft to delete, or article to check? If you can point me to the place where he actually enforces the policy, I'll reconsider my objections to the block. He doesn't tell Hammersoft where to apply the "removal tool", so he makes no actual statements regarding enforcing anything. Again, that is how I read the situation. You are a reasonable person. I am a reasonable person. Reasonable people disagree. It happens, it's not the first time it has happened in my life. I am willing to accept that you and I read the situation differently, I have access to the talk pages, diffs, and whatnot as well as you do, and you're not going to convince me that what has been cited so far amounts to a violation of his restrictions, just as I am not going to convince you that it was not. I'm not particularly interested in convincing you, Franamax, of anything. I am just giving my own, personal understanding of the situation. If you have more evidence that has not been presented yet, I'd love to see it so I can re-evaluate my understanding. But telling me that I can't read the existing evidence how I think it should be read isn't going to get us very far. I'm not telling you to change what you believe, and I don't expect you to tell me the same. --Jayron32 07:23, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I beg your pardon? "A group of editors uses this report to launch NFCC battles"??. If you're that clueless about what that report is for (and clearly assuming bad faith of a number of editors, including myself), not to mention viewing enforcing Foundation policy as WP:BATTLE, you certainly shouldn't be blocking Δ as you're not a neutral admin on an NFCC sanction (just as I wouldn't unblock him). I wonder if this incident shouldn't be rolled into the RFAR? Black Kite (t) 11:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- C'mon Jayron, read the diff: "the check link goes to the removal tool" - in context, how is that not directly related to NFCC enforcement? At current reading, the target page has nb links at all, so you'll just have to interpret I suppose. What elsa do you think a "removal tool" could mean in this context? Review the extensive history, this report had been mentioned extensively on-wiki, not least in Beta's own edits, look for "this page has been identified as having excessive use of non-free images" or the like. A group of editors uses this report to launch NFCC battles, and it looks like currency is still at the top, didn't that one get fought into the ground a while ago? Beta can continue their proxy war off-wiki, but not here where they are topic banned. Franamax (talk) 07:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I never said Franamax did it spitefully or had ill-intent, the block was clearly in good faith. Faith =/= execution, and in this case I think it is clear that this is a poorly executed block. I don't think Franamax meant to make a bad block, so I don't think Franamax acted in bad faith. Acting in good faith is no guarantee of producing good outcome. My reading of this situation is that Delta made no obvious attempt to enforce NFCC or to encourage anyone else to enforce NFCC, and that the only way that I could conceive of Franamax having interpreted the situation that way would be to prevent Delta from even mentioning the concept of NFCC at all, in any way, and I don't think that his editing restrictions go that far. I just don't. You'll not count me as someone in Delta's camp (you can check through the history here, I have never come to his "defense" and am a frequent critic of his behavior). However, in my opinion the facts of this case do not support a block. --Jayron32 06:36, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I disagree with Jayron - the block was fully good-faith, IMHO. - The BushrangerOne ping only 06:07, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well that's a good spit on my last 2 hours here, semi-automatic, no thought to context. Me who has never used a user warning template and has given all messages by hand, and who has been involved in the calm and rational side of this long-running problem. Once again, if the edit was not to do with NFCC enforcement, then what was it about? It provided a list of targets for NFCC enforcement scrutiny, can we agree on that? What was it's other purpose? Franamax (talk) 06:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not sure. The diff cited in the block made it look like he was saying "Hey, I just changed my tool to make it easier to remove non-free content", but a) was that an accurate characterization, and b) did it matter because it was on a different site?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- What is the alternative characterization? Beta clearly publicized his off-site tool which is solely designed to enable NFCC enforcement. The sole purpose of the tool is to enable NFCC enforcement, it doesn't also serve up lolcats. I made the block for the on-wiki edit, not the existence of the offsite tool. The entire point of a topic ban is for the editor to exit the topic area completely, that's why it's called a topic ban. Skirting around the edges never achieves that goal. Note too in that disputed diff, "goes to the removal tool" - that doesn't involve NFCC enforcement? Franamax (talk) 06:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Beta is prohibited from making edits that enforce the NFCC. No where in his restrictions is he prohibited from talking about the NFCC, or simply informing a user of changes to a tool that they use. This is common practice for tool developers. You notify regular users of changes. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 06:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is perhaps common practice for tool developers who are not under a topic ban on the very area for which they have developed the tool. They are always free to do whatever they want off-wiki (even though it would work out better if they would actually live up to the spirit of a topic ban too, but that's a personal decision). If a topic-banned editor engages with the topic on-wiki, then they are liable to be sanctioned. What part of the edit was not about NFCC enforcement? Franamax (talk) 06:41, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think, the way most people see it, is that the edit was regarding a tool. The tool itself concerns NFCC enforcement; however the edit itself was simply Δ saying "I have modified the tool that other people use for NFCC enforcement". Nowhere in the edit does Delta make any attempt, or even hint at, NFCC enforcement on his part, not even broadly construed. "I modified this Toolserver tool I maintain, here's how I modified it so now it works this way instead of that way". If there is evidence Δ tested the tool this would be completely different, but I haven't seen that. If Hammersoft - or anybody else - had posted on Δ's page asking "hey, the tool you maintain works differently, did you change it?" the interpretation that makes the edit in question a violation would make even his saying "yes" to such a a question a violation, which I don't think anybody believes was the intent of the restriction.
- Now, that said, I need to head off for the night. If there is belief that a block is necessary, I will not wheel war, nor consider it wheel waring, if Δ is re-blocked (or blocked for any other reason), regardless of this or any other circumstances. - The Bushranger One ping only 06:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is perhaps common practice for tool developers who are not under a topic ban on the very area for which they have developed the tool. They are always free to do whatever they want off-wiki (even though it would work out better if they would actually live up to the spirit of a topic ban too, but that's a personal decision). If a topic-banned editor engages with the topic on-wiki, then they are liable to be sanctioned. What part of the edit was not about NFCC enforcement? Franamax (talk) 06:41, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Beta is prohibited from making edits that enforce the NFCC. No where in his restrictions is he prohibited from talking about the NFCC, or simply informing a user of changes to a tool that they use. This is common practice for tool developers. You notify regular users of changes. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 06:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- What is the alternative characterization? Beta clearly publicized his off-site tool which is solely designed to enable NFCC enforcement. The sole purpose of the tool is to enable NFCC enforcement, it doesn't also serve up lolcats. I made the block for the on-wiki edit, not the existence of the offsite tool. The entire point of a topic ban is for the editor to exit the topic area completely, that's why it's called a topic ban. Skirting around the edges never achieves that goal. Note too in that disputed diff, "goes to the removal tool" - that doesn't involve NFCC enforcement? Franamax (talk) 06:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, but... ArbCom's restriction is on "enforcement of NFCC". To consider telling Hammersoft a change in the format of a automated Toolserver to generate a list of pages to check that have a large # of NFCC images, a script that would have run otherwise if Delta didn't say anything on Hammersoft's page and that Hammersoft was already away of, is far outside the intent of the ArbCom restriction. That said, since ArbCom is reconsidering the whole Delta case, this needs to be added to that case. --06:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, and it isn't even close. His restriction is clearly worded "from making any edit enforcing the non-free content criteria, broadly construed.". That edit was enforcing precisely nothing, it was merely informing another user about a change to a toolserver report which he (and I) already use. The restriction doesn't say "from making any edit that features the letters N, F, C and C in that order". Also, as mentioned above there's no problem overturning it even though it's technically an AE block; WP:AEBLOCK clearly says "Administrators are prohibited from reversing or overturning (explicitly or in substance) any action taken by another administrator pursuant to the terms of an active arbitration remedy". Since the block wasn't pursuant to any current remedy, reversing it is OK; though I might have waited for a consensus to (inevitably) occur here rather than at Δ's talkpage. Black Kite (t) 11:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No Δ is restricted from enforcing NFCC. He is not restricted from the entire NFCC topic. Bushranger was absolutely correct in removing the block, even if he used a little WP:IAR in the process. We all know per WP:Δ that any discussion of Δ must take way too long, must waste far too much time, and must call for desysops of any admins involved. So far we already have all that. Bad block, good unblock, good faith by all parties involved, move on, nothing more to see or do. N419BH 11:44, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Mmmm, I thought it was good faith myself until I read Franamax's opinion of the NFCC warning report above. Black Kite (t) 11:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No. Modifying a page that lets others enforce NFCC is not enforcing NFCC. Nyttend (talk) 12:18, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Δ is clearly in the wrong by continuing to work on NFCC enforcement despite the topic ban. But there is an open arbcom case against Δ so they can sort it out. For comparison, if someone says "Don't talk to my daughter ever again", and you start having other people carry notes to her instead, the defense "but I wasn't talking to her" isn't going to work if the notes get discovered. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:20, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps the AE sanction should have been worded correctly, then, so that (a) it would have been clear exactly what the boundaries were, and (b) it wouldn't give people excuses to block Δ based on their reading of the sanction. Having said that, consensus does seem to be fairly clear here. Black Kite (t) 14:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree there is clear consensus here. The wording of the sanction needs to be improved. This is typical of Δ: he relies on ambiguous wording to convince others to enable his edits. But since there is already an arbcom case, hopefully they will resolve the issue. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Works both ways though; if wording is unclear, it gives people the excuse to block Δ on the basis that "I believe the restriction means X", when others may disagree. Black Kite (t) 15:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- NFCC is a major policy here: it's most people's duty to carry notes to said daughter. You could even say that edits on unrelated cleanup tasks are vaguely related to NFCC enforcement, since it frees up other people's time for NFCC enforcement: both the tool and the unrelated cleanup tasks make it easier for other people to enforce NFCC without Delta doing anything directly related to it. Nyttend (talk) 03:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Works both ways though; if wording is unclear, it gives people the excuse to block Δ on the basis that "I believe the restriction means X", when others may disagree. Black Kite (t) 15:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree there is clear consensus here. The wording of the sanction needs to be improved. This is typical of Δ: he relies on ambiguous wording to convince others to enable his edits. But since there is already an arbcom case, hopefully they will resolve the issue. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:55, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Perhaps the AE sanction should have been worded correctly, then, so that (a) it would have been clear exactly what the boundaries were, and (b) it wouldn't give people excuses to block Δ based on their reading of the sanction. Having said that, consensus does seem to be fairly clear here. Black Kite (t) 14:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No - Good lord, we just had a discussion about his topic ban one or two weeks ago. Rainbow Dash !xmcuvg2MH 12:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No. (Note that I was one of the admins who commented on Delta's talk page in support of an unblock.) Franamax's interpretation of the ArbCom's remedy is mistaken, though I'm sure it is entirely in good faith. In a number of places in these discussions (here, on Delta's talk page, and on his own talk page) he has alluded to a 'topic ban on NFCC enforcement' or some similar formulation. If that were the motion passed by ArbCom, Delta would likely be in violation of a broadly construed remedy. However, the actual remedy passed by the ArbCom is rather different, specifically barring Delta from "...making any edit enforcing the non-free content criteria, broadly construed". I'm somewhat disappointed that Franamax keeps repeating his misstatement of Delta's actual restriction, because Franamax's inadvertent rewording appreciably broadens the scope of Delta's sanction and carries it beyond the limitations imposed by the ArbCom. If the ArbCom had intended Delta to be barred from uttering the words 'NFCC' on-wiki, they could easily have done so with a simple topic ban. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No. If Δ is being blocked for mentioning the NFCC, then it's a bad block - he did nothing to enforce the NFCC, and thus did not violate the restriction. If Δ is being blocked because he made changes to the tool on the toolserver, then it's a bad block - nothing occured on-wiki, and the block does nothing whatsoever to prevent harm to the project. Note also that this block does not extend to Toolserver. No question about good faith on the part of the blocking admin (or the unblocking one), but I'm surprised to see it here. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- We have precedent that says otherwise, in the form of handling process that are disrupted via off-wiki activity, like canvassing and the such. Someone caught repeatedly off-site canvassing would be blocked for the disruption caused here. If his work off-site is contributing to enforcement on-wiki, well it's not a great stretch. That said, as long as he's not driving the tools directly, I don't have an issue with him building it off-site. I'm just saying that one could easily making a connection there.--Crossmr (talk) 14:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. And had the block been specifically for the off-wiki activity, that's a different can of worms. But the block here specifically and clearly noted that the off-wiki actions were out-of-bounds in so far as these restrictions were concerned. What we're left with was the single on-wiki comment. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- In the end this could all have been avoided if Franamax had brought the issue here, and asked whether people thought it was a breach of sanctions. Given the same response as we have here, Δ wouldn't have been blocked and there wouldn't have been this dramah. Fine, if it's an unambiguous breach of sanctions, block first - I would myself, and my position on Δ is well known - and ask questions later, but this clearly wasn't if you read the wording of the sanction and don't try to read in to it a meaning that isn't there. Black Kite (t) 14:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. And had the block been specifically for the off-wiki activity, that's a different can of worms. But the block here specifically and clearly noted that the off-wiki actions were out-of-bounds in so far as these restrictions were concerned. What we're left with was the single on-wiki comment. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 14:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- We have precedent that says otherwise, in the form of handling process that are disrupted via off-wiki activity, like canvassing and the such. Someone caught repeatedly off-site canvassing would be blocked for the disruption caused here. If his work off-site is contributing to enforcement on-wiki, well it's not a great stretch. That said, as long as he's not driving the tools directly, I don't have an issue with him building it off-site. I'm just saying that one could easily making a connection there.--Crossmr (talk) 14:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No per many of the above. There is no topic ban in place. Franamax had an opportunity to discuss whether the sanctions were violated, but didn't take it. Franamax is well aware of debates that arise when Δ is blocked, and could have avoided that by discussion, first at Δ's talk page and then if not satisfactory to him, here. Franamax failed to do that. The result is instead of bringing benefit to the project, which is the intent of a block, he brought heat to the project. I'm not suggesting that consensus needs to form before Δ is blocked, but a block that is so obviously borderline should have been carefully considered with input from others before being performed. That opportunity was not taken by Franamax, and the burden of this latest debate lies squarely on his shoulders. A review of Wikipedia:BLOCK#Blocks_should_be_preventative is in order. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No - Delta has a tool that assists other people in NFCC enforcement, meaning other people are the ones who have to make the call as to whether or not each individual image should or should not be acted upon, and other people have to communicate with editors that object to the removal. Delta himself is removed from the decision process, meaning he isn't the one doing the enforcement. Sven Manguard Wha? 14:48, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No I'll add to the pile-on, because the block was ill-considered, and an over-reach. There are a number of admins who should refrain from blocking Δ, because at this point I think they lack a certain level of objectivity. Sorry, Franamax, but I think that you are not objective any more regarding this editor, and would suggest you bring further issues regarding him to AN/I before blocking him. Horologium (talk) 15:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- No - over-reaching. The ban is against enforcement (and that may be broadly construed), but it is not against the whole topic of NFCC. --Dirk Beetstra T C 18:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Had Franamax used the AE template, would the block have been overturned?
We already have SarekofVulcan, Crossmr and Carl more or less supporting the block. So, it seems to me that according to the usual AE procedures, Delta would not have the necessary strong consensus for the block to be overturned. This strongly suggests that AE needs an extra step. We should make it compulsory for an Admin to first place a notification at the AE board where a consensus has to arise that AE applies.
The Admin can block the editor immediately, but that block won't have an AE status unless it is agreed on the AE board that AE applies. If not, a consensus is needed for the block to remain in place. If AE applies, then a consensus is needed to overturn the block (if AE applies then usually there must already have been an infraction of an ArbCom sanction, but you can still imagine that a consensus could arise that the block is too harsh and that a warning would be better). Count Iblis (talk) 16:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it would have been overturned, based on the literal wording of the present topic ban. At the same time, I find the block justified, as Δ is flouting the purpose of the ban by continuing to do these things. To resolve the contradiction between those sentences, I would say the language of the topic ban needs to be adjusted. — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- You obviously have absolutely no idea how AE appeals actually work. T. Canens (talk) 16:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Since no block is currently in place, editors who feel that a block is necessary could make a new complaint at WP:Arbitration enforcement and a discussion could be held there with full ceremony. Though this could be done and would be a proper way of handling the situation, I encourage people to let the matter go unless they are sure that this is a significant instance of an ongoing problem. An AE discussion might lead to more thorough study of the evidence. But if the editors in this thread are representative of the general opinion, it sounds like the most likely outcome at AE would be no action taken. EdJohnston (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is idiotic. The block was wrong and it's been overturned. What else is there to talk about? causa sui (talk) 17:52, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Professionalism
That's what else there is to talk about.
We expect our trusted admins to behave in a responsible manner. Whether it's a "good block", or a block placed in "good faith", or if it over-reaches the definition of "broadly construed" in this context is beside the point.
Admins bickering, and overturning each other without due consultation is disruptive in the extreme. Unless the wiki is on fire, I suggest our admins try to discuss anything controversial before jumping in, please.
The Bushranger, if our current policies weren't so utterly fucked-up, I'd suggest you de-sysop and just ask for a new one via RfA. Sadly, RfA is terribly broken - but, if your current personal circumstances mean you are not able to give due attention to your admin actions, I suggest you ask for a temp de-sysop, and can then get the bit back later with no hassle. Chzz ► 00:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Chzz has a point here - what kind of image are we cultivating if we overturn each other without discussion first? Even if a block is perceived to be obscenely faulty, it should be discussed first. m.o.p 00:56, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- So now we're demanding that an admin, whose action was overwhelmingly endorsed by the community, be desysoped for that action. That's so insane, I don't know if it's wrapped around the other side of the universe to become brilliant again. I'm trying to get my head around such a notion. "Congrats Bushranger, almost everyone agrees that the block you undid should have never been done in the first place. For doing so, you now have to hand back your tools." I'm just... wow... --Jayron32 05:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Although admin catfights are often amusing, this kind of brouhaha can be avoided by communication, as causa sui suggests. What is that admins tell users more often than anything? "Use the talk page." So admins should set an example by talking about it before they undo another admin's action which they don't happen to agree with. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 05:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- To be fair, Bushranger didn't act unilaterally. He may have jumped the gun a bit, but he did have the input of several people at delta's talk page and the OP of this thread before he unblocked. I will concede it would have been better to have gotten the consensus from the noticeboards (which will attract a broader range of uninvolved people) than the blocked user's talk page, but it isn't like he acted without any input at all. A less than ideal amount of input, to be sure, but not none. I take Chzz's point insofar as the fact that Bushranger was ultimately vindicated doesn't excuse the fact that he probably should have gotten consensus before rather than after unblocking. However, the idea that we should entertain the notion of desysoping him for this is beyond silly. Situations like this is why WP:TROUT exists. There's more than enough crow to go around at dinner tonight, so I'm not sure that much benefits from further discussion here. Causa sui is largely correct above; the reason why we closedown threads once the core problem has been solved is that further discussion afterwards is rarely productive. (example #1: This discussion). --Jayron32 06:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Did he talk to the original blocking admin first? (And I agree this spat is not grounds for de-sysop.) ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 06:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- There is also another pending ArbCom case involving this same issue of an admin unblocking without discussion with the blocking admin. It's a much more complicated case, though, so have fun slogging through it should you dare :> Doc talk 07:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Did he talk to the original blocking admin first? (And I agree this spat is not grounds for de-sysop.) ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 06:57, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- To be fair, Bushranger didn't act unilaterally. He may have jumped the gun a bit, but he did have the input of several people at delta's talk page and the OP of this thread before he unblocked. I will concede it would have been better to have gotten the consensus from the noticeboards (which will attract a broader range of uninvolved people) than the blocked user's talk page, but it isn't like he acted without any input at all. A less than ideal amount of input, to be sure, but not none. I take Chzz's point insofar as the fact that Bushranger was ultimately vindicated doesn't excuse the fact that he probably should have gotten consensus before rather than after unblocking. However, the idea that we should entertain the notion of desysoping him for this is beyond silly. Situations like this is why WP:TROUT exists. There's more than enough crow to go around at dinner tonight, so I'm not sure that much benefits from further discussion here. Causa sui is largely correct above; the reason why we closedown threads once the core problem has been solved is that further discussion afterwards is rarely productive. (example #1: This discussion). --Jayron32 06:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Chzz, you know I respect you, but I've got to agree with Jayron here. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 06:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Also, when calling for a desysop, it is usually based on a pattern of abuse not one-offs that aren't clearly abuse. If blocks are preventative and not punitive then so it should be with desysopping. What would be prevented by taking away his tools?
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 06:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)- I didn't call for desysop; I merely suggested that an admin in good standing, who realised that at this time might, for whatever reason, think they're incapable of making appropriate decisions, may consider asking for temp removal of their status. Chzz ► 06:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The Bushranger said above that they would "unwatch the 'admin pages' (AN/I, UAA, AIV) for a couple of days and focus solely on content". That's a temp removal of their status. They said that they made a judgement when tired, not that they are generally incapable of making appropriate decisions. Doctalk 06:48, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not just "tired" - xe said, I'm tired (I don't get much sleep for a variety of reasons I won't go into here) and if I wasn't tired I would have (and should have) spotted the mention of ArbCom - which sounds like an ongoing concern. And 'de-watchlisting' != "removal of status". Chzz ► 09:29, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The Bushranger said above that they would "unwatch the 'admin pages' (AN/I, UAA, AIV) for a couple of days and focus solely on content". That's a temp removal of their status. They said that they made a judgement when tired, not that they are generally incapable of making appropriate decisions. Doctalk 06:48, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I didn't call for desysop; I merely suggested that an admin in good standing, who realised that at this time might, for whatever reason, think they're incapable of making appropriate decisions, may consider asking for temp removal of their status. Chzz ► 06:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think at this point, Franamax should recognize that he should have brought the issue of the block here not only as a AE-based block but as also an interested admin, and Bushranger the same for undoing an AE-based block without checking here. Trouts all around, but the issue is discussed and closed for its purpose on ANI (the larger matter to ArbCom's current case on Delta). Makes no sense to try to admin actions on two wrong admin decisions that have otherwise nullified each other out. --MASEM (t) 07:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Editor changing another’s post
User:SudoGhost is exhibiting a pattern of combativeness and baiting here on this page and elsewhere. He just changed one of my posts here at Talk:Bön by collapsing it. Collapsing is typically done by a third-party editor and, even then, only when pages become so long they are tedious to scroll through or of the discussion has run off on a tangent. How did this happen? He had selectively quoting just part of a policy out of context in a manner that—whether intentional or unintentional—was misleading. So I posted what the policy page at WP:PRECISE actually said, which undermined his selective quoting. Thus, my post was directly topical to the facts and was not tangential. His modifying my post had no valid purpose and was done none other than to bait after his argument had been refuted with the true facts. Greg L (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I assume you meant to post the diff before, i.e. this one? - Jarry1250[Weasel? Discuss.] 20:17, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I will revise my post:
User:SudoGhost is exhibiting a pattern of combativeness and baiting here on this page and elsewhere. He just changed one of my posts here at Talk:Bön by collapsing it. Collapsing is typically done by a third-party editor and, even then, only when pages either become so long that they become tedious to scroll through or if the discussion has run off on a tangent. How did this happen? He had selectively quoting just part of a policy out of context in a manner that—whether intentional or unintentional—was misleading. So I posted what the policy page at WP:PRECISE actually said, which undermined his selective quoting. Thus, my post was directly topical to the facts and was not tangential. His modifying my post had no valid purpose and was done none other than to bait after his argument had been refuted with the true facts. His stating in the collapse-box header and his edit summary that it was done for “readability” was beyond disingenuous. Greg L (talk) 20:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I apologize if was seen as something it was not meant to be. It was a lengthy section of text that was verbatim copied from WP:PRECISE, so I collapsed it so that anyone reading the section would be able to easily distinguish your text from the policy copied over, because I had difficulty doing so, and only did so because anyone interested in the text could uncollapse it to view the content. It was not done in bad-faith in any way, nor was it done in any attempt at maliciousness or combativeness, and for my part I'm not seeing how it could be used as such, as it removes no content. I'm also not seeing anything that says that collapsing is done by a third-party, if someone would be kind about to point that in my direction, I would be grateful. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:27, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was clearly not “lengthy”. It is less than one palm’s height on my iMac’s screen and is distinguished (segregated) from discussion text with horizontal rules top & bottom. It spoke directly to the issue at hand and refuted his selective quoting out of context. So he collapsed the heart of my post. Greg L (talk) 20:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Again, my apologies. It was lengthy on my screen, so I respectfully disagree that it was not "clearly" lengthy, although I can see why it would not be so on many computer monitors. However, it also made it difficult for me personally to distinguish between your words and the policy, which is why I collapsed it. I'm also not seeing where it refuted my selective quoting, if you'd please direct me to that I would appreciate it, because as I said on the talk page, a natural disambiguation is preferred over a parenthetical one, and nothing in your quoted text refuted that, at least not clearly enough to be seen upon any inspection on my part. - SudoGhost 20:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This editor seems to enjoy taking things to the edge for sport, just as he did with the above ANI he is embroiled in. I joined in on that one as an uninvolved editor to assist the two (User:Who R You? being the other party) and now see what he was facing. SudoGhost’s protestation that on his monitor the post seemed long is not credible. Relatively speaking that post is shorter than many. So if his monitor scales text like that, then many discussion-thread posts are far longer than what he collapsed. Editors don’t go and collapse someone else’s posts. His excuse that he couldn’t distinguish between my words and the policy also is not credible because it was set off with horizontal rules; he was clearly adept at parsing my post because he knew where to put the collapse tags. He is perfectly adept at pushing buttons. I’ve said enough. He knew better but collapsed a direct refutation anyway to provoke. Greg L (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- With respect, I disagree, and after the resolution of the previous ANI thread above, have made it my effort to be as cordial as possible towards you, as seen here. The above AN/I discussion is resolved (so far as I know), so there are no "embroiled" discussions there. If I have failed to be civil, please provide diffs, otherwise I'm not seeing anything resembling me "exhibiting a pattern of combativeness and baiting". Nor am I seeing anything showing that I "enjoy taking things to the edge for sport". The copy-pasting on the entirety of WP:PRECISE seemed unnecessary, as per the discussion I was clearly aware of its contents, and a simple link to WP:PRECISE would have been equally effective. Therefore I collapsed it, because as I said, I found it difficult to distinguish and tedious to read, in line with WP:TLDR's "This page in a nutshell". I'm also respectfully awaiting clarification on what you quoted that refuted my selective quote, as it was apparently a key point in my being brought to AN/I. Thank you. - SudoGhost 21:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This editor seems to enjoy taking things to the edge for sport, just as he did with the above ANI he is embroiled in. I joined in on that one as an uninvolved editor to assist the two (User:Who R You? being the other party) and now see what he was facing. SudoGhost’s protestation that on his monitor the post seemed long is not credible. Relatively speaking that post is shorter than many. So if his monitor scales text like that, then many discussion-thread posts are far longer than what he collapsed. Editors don’t go and collapse someone else’s posts. His excuse that he couldn’t distinguish between my words and the policy also is not credible because it was set off with horizontal rules; he was clearly adept at parsing my post because he knew where to put the collapse tags. He is perfectly adept at pushing buttons. I’ve said enough. He knew better but collapsed a direct refutation anyway to provoke. Greg L (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Again, my apologies. It was lengthy on my screen, so I respectfully disagree that it was not "clearly" lengthy, although I can see why it would not be so on many computer monitors. However, it also made it difficult for me personally to distinguish between your words and the policy, which is why I collapsed it. I'm also not seeing where it refuted my selective quoting, if you'd please direct me to that I would appreciate it, because as I said on the talk page, a natural disambiguation is preferred over a parenthetical one, and nothing in your quoted text refuted that, at least not clearly enough to be seen upon any inspection on my part. - SudoGhost 20:38, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was clearly not “lengthy”. It is less than one palm’s height on my iMac’s screen and is distinguished (segregated) from discussion text with horizontal rules top & bottom. It spoke directly to the issue at hand and refuted his selective quoting out of context. So he collapsed the heart of my post. Greg L (talk) 20:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Outside Comment How about both of you stop talking past each other and try to resolve the problem. Greg L, is it really necessary to put the entirety of a section of policy in a discussion when a simple link with direction as to which paragraph you're pointing at work. SudoGhost, It's probably not appropriate for you to minify discussion that another editor is critical of you in? Hasteur (talk) 21:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- "minify"? Sorry to be pedantic, Hasteur, but didn't you mean to write "minimize"? Or is this another word I've not encountered before? -- llywrch (talk) 00:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- No, I do mean minify, as in minification. I could have used collapse, but that doesn't really communicate the right concept I was going for.Hasteur (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- "minify"? Sorry to be pedantic, Hasteur, but didn't you mean to write "minimize"? Or is this another word I've not encountered before? -- llywrch (talk) 00:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Again, I apologize to Greg L. It wasn't my intention to be inappropriate in any way. It seems I was also ignorant of the ability to do this, which solved the issue I had with the readability. If I could ask for clarification, what talking past are you referring to? On the talk page, I have made it my intention to directly and to the point clarify my points, which I believe I have done to the best of my ability. There's nothing more I could say to clarify my meaning that I have not already said. - SudoGhost 21:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe this is a fault on my part, but I also don't see a problem to be solved. I made a mistake by collapsing a section that was copied in full from a policy, which offended Greg L. I had no idea that it would offend him, and he responded by saying "DO NOT MODIFY MY POSTS AGAIN or I will take you to ANI." and then immediately following up by opening this AN/I report. Short of bending space and time to go back and undo that collapsing, I don't know what I can do about it, short of apologizing, which I have done, as I meant nothing malicious by it. - SudoGhost 21:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- (e/c) I was just going to say something very similar to Hasteur's comments. I've proposed a compromise format at the article talk page; if you're both OK with it, then we move on. If Greg objects, then since it's his comment, he can revert me, and we just ignore the minor lack-of-clarity issue. p.s. Thank you, Hasteur, for a new word. I like "minify" and shall attempt to use it often in the future. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:16, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sure, that’s fine. I considered a divbox but it would have taken an extra 30 seconds for me. This is not about whether there is an even-better format for my post nor is it about the crux of the dispute over there. This is about his behavior towards others and violating rules in order to provoke and bait. He quoted part of a policy way out of context in a misleading fashion. I quoted what it really said. That was perfectly appropriate.
His protestation that he wasn’t trying to provoke are not in the least bit credible. Quoting him: I'm also respectfully awaiting clarification on what you quoted that refuted my selective quote, as it was apparently a key point in my being brought to AN/I. That’s it, isn’t it? He thought his post was in no need of being refuted. So he collapsed it.
No, the reason he is embroiled (again) here at this ANI does not hinge on anyone pointing out why another editor considered their post to be a refutation of his; that sort of reasoning would deflect from the fact that he modified another’s post that was not unusually long by any means, spoke directly to an important issue of fact, and was clearly well laid out with horizontal rules (so clear, he had zero problems figuring out where to put his collapse tags).
Also, his sudden adoption of profuse wikipleasantries in the last half hour (in serious shortage before this) does not impress. It just shows that he considers civility to be an inconvenient rule in an intellectual game of “neener-neener” brinkmanship.
I am quite done here. Whatever evidence can be presented, has been presented. It is clear from my reading of his interactions with me and others that this editor enjoys taking combativeness with other editors to the edge and considers it great sport. No wonder he gets into 3RR battles with other editors: dealing with him on the talk pages is a real test of patience. I’m done dealing with this guy; someone else can have the pleasure. His getting away with this sort of stuff will just embolden him. The whole point of ANI is to correct behavior to avoid unnecessary discord and foster a collegial collaborative writing environment. It would be a shame if he weaseled out of it by playing a game like this. A 24-hour block will help get him in the right frame of mind when dealing with others once debate and discussion actually starts after the editwarring ends. Greg L (talk) 21:26, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- We all see the world thru our own filters. IMHO, you're currently seeing this collapsing thru your "SG is trying to bait me" filter, so it ends up looking like baiting. As an outside observer, who's never interacted with either of you (to my recollection), I'm looking at it thru my AGF filter, so it ends up looking like an unwise but not ill-intended reformat. It doesn't seem particularly provocative to me (unwise, if he knows you're annoyed with him, but not outright provocative), and since he's apologized, there's not much else to do here. I'm not going to block someone for collapsing a part of someone else's post, especially when he's apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. And for the sake of argument: even if you're right - even if it was done to get your goat - why would you give him the satisfaction of getting riled up? Just revert the change and move on. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sure, that’s fine. I considered a divbox but it would have taken an extra 30 seconds for me. This is not about whether there is an even-better format for my post nor is it about the crux of the dispute over there. This is about his behavior towards others and violating rules in order to provoke and bait. He quoted part of a policy way out of context in a misleading fashion. I quoted what it really said. That was perfectly appropriate.
For what its worth, many years ago I experienced a situation where a user was copying over a page of policy information into a talk page and then repeating this verbatim everytime someone responded. In the end, the page was approaching a couple of megs. I did not review the situation here, but back then the procedure was to contact a totally uninvolved administrator and request that the text be modified. As a general rule, ordinary Wiki users should never touch or mess with someone elses's talk page posts. -OberRanks (talk) 21:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Again I apologize, I have seen sections of identical copy-pasted material from other pages collapsed before, and I honestly didn't think it would be an issue, but in retrospect I see why it wasn't the best idea. Other than apologizing, I don't know what I can possibly do, except to say that I have no intention of doing it again. However, if I'm to be accused of something like breaking 3RR, I'd appreciate diffs to back that up, as it's already been shown that there was no 3RR violation, and no rules have been broken on my part, save for perhaps a lack of better judgement. - SudoGhost 21:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Ethnic insults?
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- Closing this as not requiring any admin action. While all users are reminded of the need to be sensitive in working with the potentially controversial topic of Balkan ethnicity, demands for retractions and apologies usually cause more disruption than the initial unfortunate comment. Trouts all around but no blocks, bans, protection, formal warnings, or other administrative resolution. Eluchil404 (talk) 02:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
On Talk:Nikola Tesla, a user made a general comment that "Too much is being made of Tesla's background", commenting on conflict between Serbs and Croats on that article. User:Rklawton responded with [207]
"Get used to it. It's an ethnic pride thing (they don't have much else to brag about), so this will remain a lightning rod for the next hundred years or more."
In response to "Your comments are extremely inappropriate, please apologize" Rklawton wrote[208]
"Judging by your block history for edit warring, herr DIREKTOR, I can see why you'd be offended."
So to elaborate, in User:Rklawton's respected opinion, several nations of Europe like to brag about Nikola Tesla - because they do not have much to brag about. And "judging by my history" it seems I'm exactly the type of "Balkans person" he was aiming at with his racial comments. Requesting a brief block. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 18:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, this did seem like a wrong word by Rklawton, but i don't think that block is necessarily? Maybe just apology, with promise that PA will not happen again. Rklawton should comment on content, not on the contributor, and should not say bad things about entire nations. Apology is necessary. --WhiteWriter speaks 18:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
I was not involved in this but I must say this report is unwarranted. I belong to one of the nations of Europe Rklawton "offended" and I don't feel particularly insulted by his comment. As for "ethnic insults", see this comment about Americans posted by DIREKTOR. Timbouctou (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- User:Timbouctou is an editor who's hostility towards me personally has been noted on numerous occasions [209][210]. His comments on this thread should be taken with a grain of salt and with that in mind. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 18:51, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I, at least, found your comment about Americans offensive, and it would be so regardless of who reported it here. Quite honestly, you're not helping your case. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 19:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- @WhiteWriter. My sentiments exaclty. So I asked for an apology - and got attacked myself with comments on my editing history.
- Also please note the Nikola Tesla troubles thread by User:Djathinkimacowboy on User talk:DVdm
"Oh, please come over and see the talk page. It has erupted due to the harassment by user DIREKTOR, who I understand is a troublemaker. Good thing it's protected! This stuff on the talk page is frankly garbage. Now two editors are over there dancing round the issue like crazy people."
- Now, likely mislead by the offensive post above, User:DVdm is lobbying to for the full protection of Talk:Nikola Tesla [211] - even though there is very little or no conflict on Talk:Nikola Tesla. I am frankly shocked all this is happening - I expected a quick apology for such obvious ethnic insults, certainly not this sort of "counter-offensive". --DIREKTOR (TALK) 19:09, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance seems the more correct place for issues for such as this. Off2riorob (talk) 19:16, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. And I resent being reported here for trying to stop edit disruptions at Nikola Tesla. Djathinkimacowboy 19:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think you have been reported. User:Rklawton has been reported and a small block requested by User:DIREKTOR, but I am not seeing anything worthy of a block, a bit of slightly heated tit for tat only. Perhaps a discussion at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance would reduce the tension between you guys. Off2riorob (talk) 19:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. It was pretty pathetic of Rklawton to impugn two entire nations on the basis of a trivial dispute on a website, but let's face it, previous experience between editors of those same two nations aren't exactly a poster child for collegial editing. Black Kite (t) 19:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Much appreciated, and I agree with you on technical points. But I did get the required warning post from editor DIREKTOR - and all I have done is either enquire or list a few interesting facts on the talk page! Etiquette suggestions really should be made to the other editors. I have requested at the talk page that they please not start anything there. Djathinkimacowboy 19:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Can we all just settle down and have a nice cup of tea? Seriously. If you're grasping for things to say during a content dispute and the thought jumps into your head of making jabs at another editor, reconsider. m.o.p 19:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- The amazing thing is - there is NO content dispute, there wasn't even a dispute of any kind, I just could not believe what Rklawton wrote on a Wikipedia talkpage and requested he apologized for it. That was our first interaction. The whole purpose of that entire thread seemed to be to satisfy User:Djathinkimacowboy's need to criticize various European nations for engaging in disputes on an article about "his" "American" scientist. I am not involved there in any kind of content dispute and did not even edit the article. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 20:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
"The whole purpose of that entire thread seemed to be to satisfy User:Djathinkimacowboy's need to criticize various European nations for engaging in disputes on an article about "his" "American" scientist" - so says user DIREKTOR, but he is starting an edit war on the talk page. Furthermore, this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have been mentioned here. I wish for this to be addressed. DIREKTOR ought to be blocked for this trolling activity. Djathinkimacowboy 22:47, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Of course you do. You've been here 6 days and posted a total of 30 edits, but you're perfectly happy to go around calling other users names like "troublemaker", "crazy person", and making offensive and baseless accusations of "disruption", "harassment", "trolling" and what not. I advise you to read WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:TROLL, WP:DE, etc. etc. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 23:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Ok, this is really getting out of control, now I'm being harassed on my talkpage by User:Djathinkimacowboy. First he templates for "disruption" for requesting an apology [212], and after being reverted he's posted this thing on my talk ("You are being extremely erratic and disruptive. I tried to tell you I understand your feelings, but you are simply out of control. I sincerely hope you are blocked.") --DIREKTOR (TALK) 20:37, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- I have an easy solution. Focus on content. Everyone involved in this thread needs to stop talking about the actions of others. Here's a helpful guide for how not to piss off other people.
- Example: "Hey, Master of Puppets: I think your editing of Foo is inappropriate because it isn't properly sourced. I can see why, given your utter ineptitude when it comes to Wikipedia."
- Does your edit's message come across the same way with the pointy material stricken?
"Hey, Master of Puppets: I think your editing of Foo is inappropriate because it isn't properly sourced.I can see why, given your utter ineptitude when it comes to Wikipedia."
- Yes? Awesome. Then don't put the pointy material in. If your message does not make sense with pointy material removed, that's a key indicator that it was too antagonistic to begin with.
- This isn't aimed at one person in particular. Rather, everybody who's posted above - if somebody's commenting on you, and not the content at hand, just come and tell me. Or another administrator. Don't start bickering about it on ANI. At the same time, make sure you're ignoring their prodding - if you retaliate in kind, you're not helping your case.
- To sum things up, everybody should drop these silly grudges and move on with their lives. I don't want to hear anybody say "but he/she started it" in reply to this edit. If you have any concerns, raise them with me on my talk page. m.o.p 21:42, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wow, so I can insult someone's entire nation and, if I get reported, I can expect the folks on ANI will recommend that he "focus on content"? *sigh*.. I agree with you, MoP, of course we should focus on content, the whole issue here is that Rklawton didn't. And this isn't about a grudge, I never even saw the user before I asked him to apologize for his offensive statements. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:08, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- This whole ANI is being used in completely the wrong ways IMO. First off, Direktor, for someone drumming up a jab at the Balkans as racism it is hypocritical to be making remarks like this:
- !!! Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Have a look at the Intelligent design or Occupy Wall Street articles, just for starters, and get off your high horse. According to Gallup, 40% of Americans (the majority!) believe they were magically poofed into existence [3]. Judging by Tesla, you'd be better off if we all started packing our bags
- After making a statement like this do you expect another editor whom you are currently engaged in a dispute with not to look a bit incredulously at your asking for an apology? And after his response on the article's talkpage you left a remark just saying "Reported" with a link to this thread(where's the dispute resolution?). Cowboy posted a comment to all of this stating, "Please, please! Don't start anything here again ... hasn't there been enough trouble here?" to which you replied exceedingly rudely with:
- @Djathinkimacowboy. Please stop playing the "peacemaker" - this entire thread of yours seems to have been posted for no other reason than to satisfy your need to criticize various Balkan nations.
- Honestly there is clearly nothing actionable here on RKLawton and certainly you need to work towards improving the tone of the discussion as well. Try not to be offended by remarks like these which aren't made with actual ill intent, and if you are still personally offended then express how you feel, do not tell an editor to "consider yourself formally warned" for making "racist or hate-mongering comments", totally inappropriate way to handle this whole situation, completely unnecessary escalation. Recommending an admin close this before WP:DRAMA as there's no admin action to be done.AerobicFox (talk) 06:51, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
I fully agree with AerobicFox directly above. There is no need for admin action here and this thread should be closed. Eluchil404 (talk) 21:32, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Mick Hucknell
Can you protect his page please? There's an internet rumour going round that he's died. [214] - that page has a link to the offending aarticle but the Wiki spam filter means I can't post it. 86.133.210.78 (talk) 12:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- We rarely preemptively protect an article before a problem has actually occurred on it, so I'd suggest just watching it (I'll add it to my watch list), and only consider protection if such a problem happens repeatedly -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Okay thanks. I'd already reverted one set of edits before coming here and hopefully there won't be any more. 86.133.210.78 (talk) 12:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Activity at Teen Mania Ministries, again
In the last day, there have been 5 edits, each deleting criticism, to Teen Mania Ministries from 12.37.33.3 (talk · contribs). That address, according to its talk page, is assigned to Teen Mania Ministries. It was last blocked for one month from August 22, 2011. See User talk:12.37.33.3 for background.
The recent activity seems to stem from a critical MSNBC documentary on the organization aired last Sunday, and subsequent attempts by the organization at spin control. Wikipedia is on the sidelines in this; the article hasn't changed much in recent months, other than deletions and reverts. Another moderate-term block and/or semi-protection may be indicated. --John Nagle (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The article was semi'd for 1 year by Bwilkins (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). causa sui (talk) 22:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Help needed
Could someone please protect my user-page? I think it is Grawp who sends me loving messages about "Your skull will be crushed by an aluminum bat, fascist swine!:" Cheers, Huldra (talk) 01:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Done talk page protected 24 hrs & nonsense revdel'd Skier Dude (talk) 01:33, 11 November 2011 (UTC) - A big thank you! (And I wouldn´t mind if people kept an eye on my talk-page; I seem to have come to Jarles attention lately. ust a few days ago I had to disable my email after being spammed with "loving" messages from him. Anyway; thanks again! And back to work. Huldra (talk) 01:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- According to Page History, these edits and the summaries were redacted. However, they still appeared on Huldra's talk page. I deleted them, but they are still available through page history. Perhaps someone could redcat them properly. RolandR (talk) 09:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Done BencherliteTalk 13:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- According to Page History, these edits and the summaries were redacted. However, they still appeared on Huldra's talk page. I deleted them, but they are still available through page history. Perhaps someone could redcat them properly. RolandR (talk) 09:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- A big thank you! (And I wouldn´t mind if people kept an eye on my talk-page; I seem to have come to Jarles attention lately. ust a few days ago I had to disable my email after being spammed with "loving" messages from him. Anyway; thanks again! And back to work. Huldra (talk) 01:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Personal information on Talk page
I removed this table from a users talk page: table In my opinion it contains information about minors which should never be in the public domain. The user has put the information back. Could someone please review this and if you agree then ensure the information is permanently removed. Thanks. Vrenator talk 12:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Surely it should be nuked under WP:NOTAWEBHOST - it's not ecyclopedic content, it's never going to be encyclopedic content and it does not add in user or community communication. --Cameron Scott (talk) 12:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
IP 24.23.161.104
24.23.161.104 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This anonynous user keeps spreading his/her "unconventional" original research on hundreds of articles: mostly just re-categorizing and re-classifying politicians, political groups and parties as some sorts of socialist, left-wing, liberal or whatever. It would not be a great deal if he/she would not do it on dozens of pages every day, none of their edits explained or sourced at all (and not self-explanatory either). His/her talk page is full of good advice, warnings and "final warnings" from several other users (starting back in October), but the user has never reacted to any of them, and is obviously not accessible to argumentation. Instead he/she has rather intensified the disruptive editing. More than 90% of their contributions get reverted for being unsourced and/or blatant OR. Serious consequences are necessary. Kind regards --RJFF (talk) 20:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Briefly reviewing the edits, it looks like the IP is changing a lot of things that weren't cited anyway. The described behavior (not engaging on talk) is definitely problematic, but it should be said that replacing OR with OR is a problem better addressed by finding sources for the disputed content. causa sui (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- In many cases you are right, but he/she does not have a problem with removing refs where they stand against his/her personal perceptions and analysis [215], [216] and blanking half articles [217]. And still, the problem how to get this user to reacting on community communication and discussion is not resolved. Like this, it is impossible to co-operate with this user. --RJFF (talk) 20:52, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- P.S.: Warring, too [218] --RJFF (talk) 20:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is very reminiscent of the behaviour of Greekboy12345er6. I suggest an SPI could be in order here. RolandR (talk) 22:26, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- All right. It's a stretch but the cited diffs may be good faith and they may actually be constructive. But that is impossible to determine if the user won't communicate, so making edits like that and not discussing them is not acceptable. Some short and escalating blocks may be in order. causa sui (talk) 22:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Roland's diagnosis of the profile of Greekboy12345er6, notably
- mis-spellings and weird capitalizations (both improved somewhat from those of previous accounts) and
- obsessive categorization of political figures as members of a leftwing political tradition (often erroneous)
- lack of edit summaries (which declined from irregular to absent) and failure to discuss edits with anybody.
- These similarities suggest that a check-user search/Sock-Puppet Investigation would be reasonable.
- I just reverted his edit-warring on Max Shachtman, whom he again categorized as a social democrat, despite being reverted before. This IP categorized Shachtman as a member of an organization formed in late December (1972) after Shachtman's November (1972) death.
- I would ask that he be given a topic ban from categorizing political figures directly. He should have to propose such categorizations on talk pages and wait at least one week (without hearing any objections) before making any changes. He should be given notice that he needs to discuss his edits with other editors; if he edit wars again or continues to ignore requests for clarifications/discussions, then he should be blocked until he agrees to be mentored.
- Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- If, as I suspect, this is a sock of an indefinitely blocked disruptive serial puppeteer, this account should not receive a topic ban; it should be blocked entirely. Despite the concerns raised here, and at SPI, this editor continues to make numerous unsourced POV edits, and refuses to respond on talk pages or noticeboards. RolandR (talk) 13:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with Roland's diagnosis of the profile of Greekboy12345er6, notably
Brunodam
His latest incarnation (that I've noticed) seems to be User:6alban, and his latest article is Rocca Pietro. Judging by the fact that he's active, there are likely more "Brunodams" lurking in the woodwork. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 22:42, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Again? Keep doing the same, DIREKTOR....go on, go on....but at the end: WHO CARES? Sorry, but in the long run there it is nothing you (and your friends) can do against the truth about Italians in Venezia Giulia & Dalmazia. If you are REALLY clever, you should understand this simple reality (ah, finally allow me to remember that until now no one of my friends in Italy has started to support my articles in wikipedia, but I'd like to see how you and your group will label them as "vandals" and erase their writings only because they like to write about that thuth ...).
- Furthermore, if you want to see all the articles erased by your group last month, be my guest and go to e-notes (an internet company in little part owned by myself): you'll find -for example- the Italian irredentism in Dalmatia at http://www.enotes.com/topic/Italian_irredentism_in_Dalmatia , or the Italian irredentism in Istria at http://www.enotes.com/topic/Italian_irredentism_in_Istria
- So, DIREKTOR, please don't go on with the same....remember my advice of last month about your possible heart problems if you keep going on and on fighting against nearly everybody in the en.wiki.....Wikipedia should be a hobby! Allow others to participate with their writings in a friendly way, even if their opinions are different than yours!!!!! Remember: Wikipedia is not a Balkan or WWII battleground. For me is only a hobby, B.D. --6alban (talk) 02:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- The above editor is clearly a sock of a banned user. Can someone please block and run a checkuser for the rest of the sock drawer? Night Ranger (talk) 02:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Brunodam has really overstepped the mark (again) with what amounts to personal threats here and here. I personally have had enough of dealing with this mentally disturbed person, and I'm sure that DIREKTOR and many other editors feel the same. In view of Brunodam's past and present actions, I now demand more radical action to make it harder for him to interfere with Wikipedia. If possible, block all the IPs from Brunodam's home range and semi-protect all the articles affected by his sockpuppets. Something must be done, Brunodam is the one to be alienated, not the regular editors trying to do a good job. The mayor of Yurp (talk) 12:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- As a banned user, his edits can be reverted by any editor without worrying about 3rr. Socks should be reported here or to WP:SPI. --Blackmane (talk) 13:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Sabarikarthik1991
| no admin action required at this time. Vandal editor can be dealt summarily with if he repeats the offence --Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi, please block this user indefinitely, and erase his edit summaries to the Captivity of Mangalorean Catholics at Seringapatam article. He has injected crude insults against the Mangalorean Catholics. See this. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 09:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Hi Joyson. I've notified the user of this discussion - you need to do this when you post at ANI. This, however, is not an ANI issue; it's simple vandalism, and should be dealt with by reverting (as you have done) and placing a warning template on the user's talkpage (which I have done for you). If he persists, take it to WP:AIV before coming here. Yunshui雲水 10:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK, so abusing an entire community is not an ANI issue. At least, delete the edit summaries. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 10:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- They have never used any edit summaries, there's nothing to delete ... and they did not abuse an entire community, they inserted childish vandalism (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I meant, delete his revisions! Inserting that the Mangalorean Christians delivered women to the English is not abusing an entire community? Were he to say something similar about your particular ethnicity, you wouldn't be insulted by it? And he also inserted nonsense like the Mangalorean Catholics got banged by the English during Hyder Ali's reign. Delete these revisions. These are verbal use! Plus, it was one fellow. There is no they. Why are you arguing if you haven't even bothered to look into it properly? Joyson Noel Holla at me! 10:30, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- His edits have been reverted; you did that yourself. Do you mean that you want them suppressed from the edit history? I don't think Oversight are likely to do that; for one thing, if he continues to vandalise then those edits will be needed as evidence for a future block. He vandalised a page, you reverted him, I warned him, he hasn't vandalised since. This happens thousands of times every single day on Wikipedia. Let it go. Yunshui雲水 10:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- They won't be WP:REVDEL'd either; as Yunshui says, this exact kind of childish vandalism happens by the minute on Wikipedia, and how Joyson has handled (up until the ANI request) it is how it gets handled thousands of times a day. If it happens more, then there will be additional steps. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just answer this one question. Are childish insults to bios, or community related articles subject to revision deletion or not? Joyson Noel Holla at me! 10:51, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- This type? No, not usually. Oh, by the way, you neither advised the other editor of this ANI filing (already done by Yunshui) nor provided them a list of the rules via a Welcome template (done by me) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I didn't feel the need to. I assumed that such an action deserves an indefinite block, and so i reported it here. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 11:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- This type? No, not usually. Oh, by the way, you neither advised the other editor of this ANI filing (already done by Yunshui) nor provided them a list of the rules via a Welcome template (done by me) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- His edits have been reverted; you did that yourself. Do you mean that you want them suppressed from the edit history? I don't think Oversight are likely to do that; for one thing, if he continues to vandalise then those edits will be needed as evidence for a future block. He vandalised a page, you reverted him, I warned him, he hasn't vandalised since. This happens thousands of times every single day on Wikipedia. Let it go. Yunshui雲水 10:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I meant, delete his revisions! Inserting that the Mangalorean Christians delivered women to the English is not abusing an entire community? Were he to say something similar about your particular ethnicity, you wouldn't be insulted by it? And he also inserted nonsense like the Mangalorean Catholics got banged by the English during Hyder Ali's reign. Delete these revisions. These are verbal use! Plus, it was one fellow. There is no they. Why are you arguing if you haven't even bothered to look into it properly? Joyson Noel Holla at me! 10:30, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- They have never used any edit summaries, there's nothing to delete ... and they did not abuse an entire community, they inserted childish vandalism (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Obviously Joyson belongs to the community and feels hurt. Can we not suppress the edits as we sometimes do on talk pages? 92.241.168.146 (talk) 11:04, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Joyson: advising them of the ANI filing is a necessity, no matter what - you cannot miss that warning. The statements, although puerile, do not appear to meet the criteria threshold. I have had both my faith community AND my ethnicity insulted billions of times - what you're asking to have REVDEL'd is extremely minor in the grand scheme of things. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- In other words, who cares? Joyson Noel Holla at me! 13:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Joyson is quite justifiably upset - this vandalism is quite a bit nastier than just replacing every third word with 'penis', and does appear to be intended to insult the subjects of the article. I'm not sure why quite so much good faith is being extended to the vandal, and quite so little to Joyson. Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't doubt the justification of him being upset. That said, historically, the exact actions that are being inserted into the article (although currently unsourced) were the actions that were required of the aggrieved group, and enforced by aggressors. The negative being added in the article are actually against the English aggressors, and not suggesting that the Mangalorean Christians were doing this voluntarily. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Any proof that members of the aggrieved group were supposed to supply women to the British soldiers, who by the way, mostly tended to be Indian sepoys? If not, then i suggest that you better shut up! Perhaps, your ancestors supplied women to the British soldiers or the Yankees, but not ours. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 13:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Joyson, enough! Bwilkins, you have genuinely misread the vandal edits. The vandal is having a go at the Mangalorean Christians. Whether he's just a mindless troll or has an agenda I don't know, it could be either.Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Let me add to this! These are 'genuine' edits:
- Joyson, enough! Bwilkins, you have genuinely misread the vandal edits. The vandal is having a go at the Mangalorean Christians. Whether he's just a mindless troll or has an agenda I don't know, it could be either.Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Any proof that members of the aggrieved group were supposed to supply women to the British soldiers, who by the way, mostly tended to be Indian sepoys? If not, then i suggest that you better shut up! Perhaps, your ancestors supplied women to the British soldiers or the Yankees, but not ours. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 13:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't doubt the justification of him being upset. That said, historically, the exact actions that are being inserted into the article (although currently unsourced) were the actions that were required of the aggrieved group, and enforced by aggressors. The negative being added in the article are actually against the English aggressors, and not suggesting that the Mangalorean Christians were doing this voluntarily. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- This was led by a native major named Francis Pinto who let the English shove their tiny thing into his huge hole for the defense of the fort. brave defence of the fort. He also refers to these troops as the "Native Christian Bastards".
- During Hyder's regime, Roman Catholicism in Mangalore and the Mangalorean Catholic community continued to get banged by the English.
- "Historically, the exact actions that are being inserted into the article (although currently unsourced) were the actions that were required of the aggrieved group, and enforced by aggressors." You have seriously lost all credibility. Joyson Noel Holla at me! 14:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Joyson, pack it in! Bwilkins misunderstood the edits, you appear to have misunderstood what both he and I said, and are certainly failing to agree any good faith with me, who was on your side up to this point. I am going to hat this off, before it descends any further.Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Original research edit war at Maxwell's demon
A new user, AlanS333 (talk · contribs), is edit warring at Maxwell's demon to include content sourced to his own Facebook page. He claims it can also be found in the archives at the University of Arizona but does not provide sufficient evidence that it qualifies under WP:RS. Since I am probably considered involved at this point, could someone else please take a look? Thank you. Wknight94 talk 18:46, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Reverted his addition, left him a note, and I'll block the account for a bit if he re-adds the material. Hopefully it won't come to that. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:57, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He should understand what he did. Now an admin blocked him for a period of time. --Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 19:14, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- What? No, he hasn't been blocked. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:17, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He should understand what he did. Now an admin blocked him for a period of time. --Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 19:14, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Known troll posing as a real person
Please see the edits today by Peter Wynne-Thomas (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki) who claims to be the real Peter Wynne-Thomas. The user has been referred to SPI under Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Richard Daft per WP:DUCK.
Aside from the duck test/SPI issue, does this imposture contravene WP:BLP or other policies in place to safeguard the integrity and reputation of living persons? ----Jack talk page 21:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- At times, especially if the conduct is suspicious or might bring disrepute upon a real person, such accounts have been blocked for impersonation subject to OTRS confirmation of identity. Nathan T 21:04, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Whoever it is, it's definitely a sock. The following accounts are
Confirmed as each other:
- Peter Wynne-Thomas (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Fullersomething (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- TheWagonMound (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- DonoghuevStevenson (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- HallvRAC (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
- Aecvlatimer (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser (log) · investigate · cuwiki)
–MuZemike 21:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
User: Snowded/GoodNight
| Issue seems to have been resolved with the user sub-page being deleted via WP:MFD--Cailil talk 23:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I was willing to let this Rfc sandbox continue. But the last complaint added to it - is a blatent breach of AGF. It has pushed me to bring my concerns here - per WP:HARASSMENT. -- GoodDay (talk) 20:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- GoodDay has a long term pattern of minor disruption and his behaviour has been brought here before. Given that an RfC is the most likely route if the pattern continues I created a page to collect material. I thought it best to do this where it was visible to GoodDay and others, rather than just keep it off wiki. --SnowdedTALK 21:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- You have been keeping your list about GoodDay for three months now - enough is enough - either s**t or get off the pot. Off2riorob (talk) 21:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Long term to my mind is more than three month, especially with minor disruption. But its not surprising to see you here --SnowdedTALK 21:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The last 2 claims of disruption (#10 & #11) at the sandbox, were really OTT. The IP claims weren't much better. It was getting to the point, where I was beginng to think if I said hello to anyone - the post would end up at the sandbox. GoodDay (talk) 21:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Re #11 that GoodDay was trolling was endorsed by an Admin. Daicaregos (talk) 21:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The last 2 claims of disruption (#10 & #11) at the sandbox, were really OTT. The IP claims weren't much better. It was getting to the point, where I was beginng to think if I said hello to anyone - the post would end up at the sandbox. GoodDay (talk) 21:20, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Long term to my mind is more than three month, especially with minor disruption. But its not surprising to see you here --SnowdedTALK 21:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- You have been keeping your list about GoodDay for three months now - enough is enough - either s**t or get off the pot. Off2riorob (talk) 21:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
@User Snowded - when are you opening the RFC user? Or is your list speculative and open ended? Off2riorob (talk) 21:26, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
A further request. I wish editors would stop commenting on me and/or my motives, at main space talkpages. GoodDay (talk) 21:32, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm reminded of the scene in Rain Man where Raymond pulls out a logbook of every time someone was mean to him since 1958... typically, the way we do this is (a) notice a short-term pattern of bad behavior by a user we're not familiar with, (b) go through contribs to see if it's a long term problem, (c) if it is, build such a narrative retro-actively and file an RFC/U. Following someone around in real-time and keeping an ongoing log on-wiki is alienating stalking behavior and anyone subjected to that kind of deliberate public shaming - right or wrong - is in the right to feel attacked. Keeping such lists off-wiki until you're ready to actually file may be a better way of doing this. causa sui (talk) 21:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- GoodDay is involved in long-term low-level disruption over several different genres. Consequently, different editors are involved. Should any of the cases noted turn out to be spurious that would be in GoodDay's favour. Daicaregos (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Daicaregos is involved in long-term low-level harrassment of GoodDay. But, we'll let the Wiki-community decide on such things. GoodDay (talk) 21:49, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is non sequitur. Another way of saying "multiple users are doing the documenting" is "GoodDay is being stalked by a gang of hostile editors". Your complaints may or may not be well-founded but harassment and stalking is not a productive way of reaching a resolution in either case: we have RFC/U process for this. File an RFC, have everyone who is involved in the dispute certify it, and then submit your statements for comment by the community. causa sui (talk) 22:04, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- GoodDay is involved in long-term low-level disruption over several different genres. Consequently, different editors are involved. Should any of the cases noted turn out to be spurious that would be in GoodDay's favour. Daicaregos (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
In my opionion there are two valid concerns here:
- My impression of GoodDay is that he is mostly fooling around, often pouring flammable liquids into open fires, persistently. I first saw him doing that in the Anglo-Irish conflict, where he had no substantial input except for a strong opinion, which he kept repeating. I have since seen him engage in the same behaviour in other conflicts. The behaviour is of a type that is very hard to address. It's not blatant enough to result in any consequences for GoodDay, so the damage is going on and on.
- It is well established though not universally known that we don't allow pages such as the one that Snowded is keeping, except for a very specific legitimate purpose (tick) and for a very short period of time (fail). I believe the rationale for the prohibition is that we can't police whether evidence collected on such a page is sufficiently valid without partially anticipating the very purpose of the page, and it is only natural if the target feels stalked, whether the concerns are valid or not.
Unfortunately there seems to be nothing we can do immediately about the first problem, but based on my prior experience with Snowded I am confident that he will simply keep his list offline from now on until the matter is ripe for RfC/U. Hans Adler 22:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'll share your confidence on the second bit when he agrees and tags the page for WP:CSD#U1. causa sui (talk) 22:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- With no comment on the underlying dispute, such pages aren't generally allowed on-wiki for more time then is needed to put together a case (2-3 weeks in general). Either move it off wiki or start an RfC/U would be my strong advice. Hobit (talk) 22:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Concur with Hobit here. This page, given the length of time it has existed, clearly violates WP:POLEMIC. It appears to be serving the purpose of documenting ongoing objections to GoodDay's editing, which is clearly not allowed in the userspace. Either it becomes an RFC/U post haste or it should be deleted. --Jayron32 05:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- With no comment on the underlying dispute, such pages aren't generally allowed on-wiki for more time then is needed to put together a case (2-3 weeks in general). Either move it off wiki or start an RfC/U would be my strong advice. Hobit (talk) 22:31, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
Even the name of the sandbox ("GoodNight") is bad taste. GoodDay (talk) 23:17, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Shame on any editor who saw the page and did not request its deletion. Shame on any editor who defends its existence based on the editor on the recieving end maybe deserving it. I could spend 10 minutes detailing how snowded makes a habit of attacking those that disagree with him. I could spend another 5 discussing how poor form it is that his first comment here backed that up. I will instead spend a few seconds requesting deletion of the page. Note that your computer has some sort of program to save text, Snowded. If you have enough evidence to warrant the start of collecting evidence then you have enough evidence to file an RfC already. Cptnono (talk) 05:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- As I said before it seems to me more honest to keep the page where anyone (including GoodDay) to see it. With long term disruption the evidence will have to be gathered over a longer period of time than a few weeks. However, if someone can show me the policy which says this sort of thing is not allowed then I will happily take it off line and notify interested editors. And as a side note, Off2riorob and Cptnono, would you please get over the fact that the community did not support your views on the UAF article, or at least have the honesty to admit that you are "involved" editors in any issue involving me. --SnowdedTALK 06:41, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- If it goes off wiki the same editors will be involved but GoodDay will not have sight of it. Happy to do that if he wants as this is now becoming a drama. Regardless of what happens I would still like to see policy here Doc9871, you are asserting a position, without that reference its just your opinion. Otherwise I am fully entitled to note that two of the editors making the strongest comments here have a long running dispute with me over their failure to change one article. --Snowded TALK 06:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- From the British Isles naming fiasco I remember the both of you: remember that fun? Snowded, I've created similar evidence pages and currently maintain one for a prolific vandal: but these pages are to be addressed appropriately should they be actually challenged in their existence. No offense to either of you at all, and I hope it is worked out amicably. Doc talk 07:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- List is now at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Snowded/GoodNight — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}} {{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}} talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}} contribs]])
Probably unrelated except through Snowded, but while we are here: Can an admin please indef this idiot for the overt off-wiki threat ("it stands to reason that you will not be getting any contract renewed")? Hans Adler 12:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Done. That was well beyond the pale. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Block review
- BruceWHain (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log)
With the patience and kindness of a whack of editors/admins, we have tried to teach User:BruceWHain simple concepts .. like the WP:5P, not to WP:REFACTOR, WP:NPA, and a whole bunch of other things. He continues to refactor comments (for example, recently adding his own comment in the middle of mine, then berating me for removing his insertion).
I have indef-blocked him. This is not a block based on that action, this is a general WP:COMPETENCE and WP:BATTLE block that is readily apparent both on his main article of interest, and on his usertalk. I had considered locking his talkpage to start - knowing where this will plunge to.
This all said, I welcome a review of my block. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 22:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Good block. Ranting diatribes by the user on his talk page tell the story; he doesn't understand how we do things, can't grasp why we do them the way we do, and has no interest in listening or learning. Any efforts to reform his behavior should be done on his talk page and while he's unable to cause further damage elsewhere. causa sui (talk) 22:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ugh, necessary block. Some people just aren't cut for WP. Noformation Talk 22:35, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agh, sad to see someone who clearly has enthusiasm and ability being so wholly incapable of editing in a collegial manner and steadfastly refusing to listen, but the Talk page makes it abundantly clear that is the case. So with regret, I have to support the block. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:08, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ditto the above. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:11, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- Unless/until the light comes on with this editor, I think there's not a lot else to be done. Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:46, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Strong opposition This looks heavy handed. He should be blocked for 1 year. After a year, people mature. Otherwise, you will be branding him a criminal with a life sentence. Jack Paterno (talk) 02:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- You are being very nasty calling me an it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Paterno (talk • contribs) 02:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I have been reading Wikipedia for years. I know it is a Wikipedia tradition. Call the newbie a sock and then ban user Bruce! Very juvenile. Step back and think. Give the guy an incentive to act productively. Just ban him for a year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Paterno (talk • contribs) 02:36, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He's not banned, he's indefinitely blocked. If he showed any sign of clue he could be unblocked tomorrow. And don't put unblock templates on anyone's pages but your own. Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Exactly what Elen said. Nobody's called for him to be banned. An indefinite block is, as it says, a block without a definite length. It could be a year, a month, a decade, or a day. To an extent, the blocked user determines the length of the block: if he can demonstrate that he understands why he was blocked, agrees not the repeat the actions in question, and is willing to edit constructively going forward, then he's likely to get unblocked. If he stubbornly repeats the same behaviour, that's when the block run a chance of turning, explicitly or implicitly, into a ban. —C.Fred (talk) 03:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He's not banned, he's indefinitely blocked. If he showed any sign of clue he could be unblocked tomorrow. And don't put unblock templates on anyone's pages but your own. Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Good block. The editor is either extraordinarily dense, or is just a troll. Either way, see ya. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:54, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed that no one had notified the editor; I've done so now, and indicated that we would copy or link to any new comments directly relevant to this discussion. And I had earlier notified the user that at this point, he can use his talk page to discuss the block, and that's it--no more demands for recantations, reversions, or obeisances. Any further ranting should result in a talk page being removed. Also, the user currently has a sandbox copy of his preferred version of the article, which should be deleted if the block is upheld (might as well wait a day or two just to be sure). Qwyrxian (talk) 04:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Now he's practically begging to have his talk page privilege revoked. It would only be polite to accommodate him. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 07:05, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- If it's not trolling -- and it seems much too complicated for that -- I'm afraid there's a maasive WP:COMPETENCE problem with this user, and that, for whatever reason, he is incapable of understanding how Wikipedia works. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Per this diff, in which the user explicitly says that he is making a legal threat, I have removed talk page access ("accommodated him", as Baseball Bugs says). He can send Arbcom or the Foundation or whoever he wants his legal threats demanding we remove his content. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Shame it had to come to it, but clearly the right decision -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Also, Elen of the Roads deleted his sandbox version of the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:31, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Shame it had to come to it, but clearly the right decision -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Per this diff, in which the user explicitly says that he is making a legal threat, I have removed talk page access ("accommodated him", as Baseball Bugs says). He can send Arbcom or the Foundation or whoever he wants his legal threats demanding we remove his content. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- If it's not trolling -- and it seems much too complicated for that -- I'm afraid there's a maasive WP:COMPETENCE problem with this user, and that, for whatever reason, he is incapable of understanding how Wikipedia works. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Disruptive editing, legal threats
Proofplus (talk · contribs · count · api · block log)
CueCat (edit talk history protect delete links watch logs views)
Despite some editors' attempts to educate Proofplus (I gave up), she continues to disruptively - and often incoherently - edit the CueCat article and Talk pages, including removal of sourced material she doesn't like and insertion of unsourced material. In my view, she is not an asset to Wikipedia and should be blocked. In addition, she has made at least one legal threat in her edit summary, which independently merits a block. She has also accused me and User:Cullen328 of sockpuppetry here.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I've been watching the situation on the article for a time. She is a bit of a problematic editor, probably moreso with not yet understanding how Wikipedia works. I don't think she made a legal threat there, but she is in the territory of personal attacks for some of her comments to Bbb23 and Cullen238. —C.Fred (talk) 20:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Fred is being kind. I don't see how the phrase "Liable is at issue here WARNING Kbb23" can be construed as anything but a legal threat. She misspelled libel or intended to mean that I would be "liable", and she is warning me (she often calls me Kbb23 instead of Bbb23). I personally don't think she will ever understand how Wikipedia works (or wants to, although she sometimes claims she does, but she is clearly passive-aggressive in many of her comments), but even if that were a possibility, she should not be permitted to edit until she shows some sign of having learned.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- More evidence of legal threats: "and yes I say Kbb23 Cullens accusations, but I just warned them of liable with the words they attributed to an author, but was with that said" ([219]).--Bbb23 (talk) 21:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- SORRY Bbb23 I have a child on my knee, feeding them while I try to work and be mommy at the same time. That is not against the rules. I simply pointed out the RULES on wiki about the statementDIRECTLY FROM WIKI that you cannot post inflamatory statments about living persons and the stuff you posted was really offensive and not part of the reference link. You simply cannot attack a living individual on wiki that way, and BESIDES the record is about a DEVICE not a person. YOU NEED TO COOL ITProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC) ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC) (ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC))
- Note that the above edit was made by Proofplus as of 21:15. See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ran kurosawa - Proofplus is technically
Unrelated. Meatpuppetry might be a more realistic explanation than sockpuppetry. I also construe those diffs as legal threats. WilliamH (talk) 21:24, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Note that the above edit was made by Proofplus as of 21:15. See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ran kurosawa - Proofplus is technically
- SORRY Bbb23 I have a child on my knee, feeding them while I try to work and be mommy at the same time. That is not against the rules. I simply pointed out the RULES on wiki about the statementDIRECTLY FROM WIKI that you cannot post inflamatory statments about living persons and the stuff you posted was really offensive and not part of the reference link. You simply cannot attack a living individual on wiki that way, and BESIDES the record is about a DEVICE not a person. YOU NEED TO COOL ITProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC) ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC) (ProofPlus Professional Researcher 21:15, 11 November 2011 (UTC))
- More evidence of legal threats: "and yes I say Kbb23 Cullens accusations, but I just warned them of liable with the words they attributed to an author, but was with that said" ([219]).--Bbb23 (talk) 21:03, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think Fred is being kind. I don't see how the phrase "Liable is at issue here WARNING Kbb23" can be construed as anything but a legal threat. She misspelled libel or intended to mean that I would be "liable", and she is warning me (she often calls me Kbb23 instead of Bbb23). I personally don't think she will ever understand how Wikipedia works (or wants to, although she sometimes claims she does, but she is clearly passive-aggressive in many of her comments), but even if that were a possibility, she should not be permitted to edit until she shows some sign of having learned.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Proofplus, I have not really added any material to the article. I was struggling to maintain the article in its previous state before your edits. In so doing, I may have restored material you consider controversial, I don't know, as it's hard to keep up with your changes (and until the issues raised here have been resolved, I've ceased trying).--Bbb23 (talk) 21:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I also construe those diffs as legal threats. — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 21:35, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- My typing volume must be turned down too low. I have attempted to convey that Cullen and Bbb23 are not socks, but have been unsuccessful. I think this is crossing the line into personal attack territory. Danger High voltage! 21:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm engaged in a discussion with her on my talk page (thread FRED can you help me with LINK references???) where, among other things, I'm pointing out that editors are working in good faith but disagreeing. If she can grasp that, I'm hopeful for the situation. If she continues to protest about the conduct of other editors, however… —C.Fred (talk) 21:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I wouldn't want to discourage you from trying to help her, but, in the past, she has proved to be alternately intractable/offensive or gushingly grateful (see my passive-aggressive characterization above). I'm no longer willing to assume good faith.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- With serious respect to C.Fred for trying, this user lacks the competence to edit here collaboratively. I've blocked the account.--v/r - TP 22:12, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm probably too close to the situation to formally endorse the block, but after this talk page comment, I think it's the right call. —C.Fred (talk) 22:13, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, what he said. Danger High voltage! 23:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm probably too close to the situation to formally endorse the block, but after this talk page comment, I think it's the right call. —C.Fred (talk) 22:13, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- With serious respect to C.Fred for trying, this user lacks the competence to edit here collaboratively. I've blocked the account.--v/r - TP 22:12, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I wouldn't want to discourage you from trying to help her, but, in the past, she has proved to be alternately intractable/offensive or gushingly grateful (see my passive-aggressive characterization above). I'm no longer willing to assume good faith.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm engaged in a discussion with her on my talk page (thread FRED can you help me with LINK references???) where, among other things, I'm pointing out that editors are working in good faith but disagreeing. If she can grasp that, I'm hopeful for the situation. If she continues to protest about the conduct of other editors, however… —C.Fred (talk) 21:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I have restored the article to a previous state before the latest slew of edits by Proofplus. If anyone disagrees with my reversion, feel free to revert it and go through each of Proofplus's edits one by one, but, honestly, I doubt there's anything of value that was added.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, I have removed one of the statements ProofPlus identified as problematic because it was, indeed, a BLP violation. Risker (talk) 23:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't have a problem with removal of that material, although it was sourced and quoted accurately. The problem lies in the source itself, which reads essentially like an opinion piece, even though it came from what I assume is a reliable newspaper (Dallas Observer). As for Proofplus and her identification of that material, that is a separate issue. When an editor like Proofplus is making wild accusations, it's very hard to look through them all in the hope that one particular accusation turns out to have validity. On a personal note, susbequent to the block, Proofplus continues her misbehavior, including calling me sexist and anti-semitic.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:46, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- She's begun an emailing streak, and is now bugging our benevolent dictator. Revoke email access? DangerHigh voltage! 23:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- For the record, I am not Bbb23. I do not object to the removal of referenced quotations of the harsh language directed against the inventor of the CueCat by the press in Dallas. I added that material in an attempt to summarize what reliable sources were saying about the collapse of the company in question, resulting in losses of $185 million for investors. If I had found anything favorable in reliable, independent sources regarding this inventor, I certainly would have added that material as well. I never heard of the CueCat or the inventor until recent days.
- I agree with WilliamH that meatpuppetry is the most likely explanation for the unusual editing of this group of articles and drafts, as opposed to sockpuppetry. I have wondered why someone would push seeming COI editing regarding a company long out of business and a TV/radio show long off the air? My unproven theory is that it is a promotional attempt to bolster the value of the underlying patents behind the CueCat, but I could be wrong. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:28, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Nominations for the 2011 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections are now open
Nominations for the 2011 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections are now officially open and will run until Monday 21 November at 23:59 UTC.
- If you are interested in running for the Arbitration Committee for 2012 and meet the requirements for candidacy, please go here.
- If any other editors are interested in coordination, please go here.
–MuZemike 00:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Large backlog cleared but may need repopulating
After finding a copyvio that wasn't picked up in the article wizard creation review process, I raised it with the reviewer (User:Wilhelmina Will) on their talk page and during that discussion realised that they had cleared thousands of articles from various 'new articles created via the Article Wizard' categories. About 7000 apparently. There are at least two where problems were not picked up (see user's talk page) and there are likely more as the reviewer explicitly stated that they 'didn't realize you're supposed to check for copyright when reviewing these pages'. I suggested that the articles be placed back in the queue for reviewing, but the reviewer wants to do it themselves. I think the articles (a list could be generated from the reviewer's contributions) should be placed back in the backlog queue for proper reviewing, as I think 7000 is too much for one person to attempt to do on their own (I realise this is in part because CorenSearchBot has been down for some time). What is the best thing to do here? The discussion so far is here (version at time of writing). Further additions to that user talk page discussion are here (will get archived at some point). I'm posting here, as I think urgent action is needed to at the least have a tag on these articles that didn't get reviewed for potential copyright problems. The article creation review backlogs cleared by Wilhelmina Will can be seen at Wikipedia:Contribution Team/Backlogs/Participants and progress. Carcharoth (talk) 07:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Update: I edit conflicted with Wilhelmina Will here while replying and notifying about this thread. She now agrees that it is better to put those articles back in a review queue. Could someone help out from here with what is needed? Carcharoth (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Judging by the item that drew my attention to this, articles cleared by this editor need to be checked not just for copyvio but for issues like promotional tone and notability. I guess putting them back in the queue will achieve that, but they shouldn't be treated as a special case to be checked for copyvio only. JohnCD (talk) 10:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Going through her deleted contributions, she also reviewed article that were subsequently speedy deleted as (from a short check) G4 (repost), G10 (attack page), many A7s, and even an A1 for an article that had as text "KASSIM BAHALI is " and a number of external links. How that one could ever get reviewed is far beyond me. I have to admit that I deleted Brendan Monaghan as a copyvio last month, but forgot to follow this up then, which could have given this problem more attention sooner. Anyway, from what I see, it seems as if she is not suited to be an article reviewer and should cease doing this, at least for a while, until a firmer graps of our policies is shown. Fram (talk) 10:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- As some tools automatically mark as reviewed any article nominated for deletion, in your examples, were they marked reviewed and then later tagged for deletion by someone else? Monty845 16:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- In all these examples, this involves Wilhelmina Will removing the "new unreviewed article" template, either with or without the edit summary "reviewed", and without nominating it for deletion. Kassim Bahali, Brian O'Kelly (a BLPPROD which she reviewed(!), William J. Gladden (another unsourced BLP she reviewed), ... Articles that still remain and that never should have been tagged as reviewed include e.g. Ricardo Melendez. Fram (talk) 17:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- As some tools automatically mark as reviewed any article nominated for deletion, in your examples, were they marked reviewed and then later tagged for deletion by someone else? Monty845 16:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Going through her deleted contributions, she also reviewed article that were subsequently speedy deleted as (from a short check) G4 (repost), G10 (attack page), many A7s, and even an A1 for an article that had as text "KASSIM BAHALI is " and a number of external links. How that one could ever get reviewed is far beyond me. I have to admit that I deleted Brendan Monaghan as a copyvio last month, but forgot to follow this up then, which could have given this problem more attention sooner. Anyway, from what I see, it seems as if she is not suited to be an article reviewer and should cease doing this, at least for a while, until a firmer graps of our policies is shown. Fram (talk) 10:39, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- Judging by the item that drew my attention to this, articles cleared by this editor need to be checked not just for copyvio but for issues like promotional tone and notability. I guess putting them back in the queue will achieve that, but they shouldn't be treated as a special case to be checked for copyvio only. JohnCD (talk) 10:28, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
- A couple of points:
- (1) By 'review' I am referring to the manual removal of the 'needs review' tags put on articles created through the Article Creation Wizard. I'm not referring to patrolling or anything related to the (auto)reviewer/patroller right.
- (2) My initial post here was to try and get some sense of urgency injected into identifying and tagging these articles that were incompletely reviewed. It wasn't intended to say anything about reviewing competency - if someone wants to raise that as a related or separate issue (and given some of the examples above, it might be needed), then please re-notify Wilhelmina Will on her user talk page, as her agreeing that these articles need re-reviewing means she might not be following this thread any more.
- (3) It seems some of the articles reviewed have and are being caught, but it would probably be best if all the articles cleared from those categories (or rather, the ones that still exist) were put back there. Is there a way to identify and re-tag those articles?
- A good starting point would be to work out when Wilhelmina Will started to clear these categories (her entry here would be the logical starting point for working that out). I think this edit from March 2011 marks the start of work being done on that backlog. So that is 7000+ articles reviewed in around 8 months. Do the examples above fall towards the end of this period or throughout? As I asked above, is it possible to identify the articles that had their review tags removed during this period by Wilhelmina Will, and put the review tags back? Or do we just have to hope that any problems not yet noticed will eventually be corrected? Carcharoth (talk) 01:37, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- The ones I mentioned are mostly from October and November, I haven't looked at the older ones yet. I don't know if there is an easy to set all this articles back up for review. Fram (talk) 09:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm afraid the problem is not just recent. Looking at Wilhelmina's deleted contributions for the first half of May, for edits which removed the "new unreviewed article" template, I see two subsequently deleted as copyvio, two as G11, and eight PRODded, some with reasons like "non-notable student production, can find no sources establishing notability" or "Advertisement for a non-notable behind the scenes business. Article is written entirely in deliberately uninformative sales patter."
- The ones I mentioned are mostly from October and November, I haven't looked at the older ones yet. I don't know if there is an easy to set all this articles back up for review. Fram (talk) 09:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
- If Wilhelmina can tell us when she began reviewing articles, the easiest solution would be for a bot to scan all her edits since then, replacing any "unreviewed" templates she removed. I don't know whether that is too complex a task for a bot.
- (I have asked at WP:VPT#Could a bot do this? whether this is possible. JohnCD (talk) 23:09, 10 November 2011 (UTC))
- If Wilhelmina can tell us when she began reviewing articles, the easiest solution would be for a bot to scan all her edits since then, replacing any "unreviewed" templates she removed. I don't know whether that is too complex a task for a bot.
- If it is not possible, I don't think it would be unreasonable to to ask Wilhelmina to do this herself - not to re-review the articles, just to replace the templates to put them back in the queue.
- If you want to know when I started reviewing the pages in the unreviewed categories, the best I can give is that it was around March - mid to late. I don't remember when exactly, nor can I recall doing it any earlier than that. I hope this helps. Wilhelmina Will (talk) 01:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Michael Jackson
There is an editor that is insistent on the Michael Jackson article on changing the legal name of Jackson, based on some 'film'(?) called 'Alive! Is Michael Jackson Really Dead?'. The user seems to even uploaded some image from the film here. I don't know enough about these conspiracies, but I'm pretty sure the death certificate issued by the LA County Health Department cites Jackson's real name. In any case, looking at this editors contributions, it seems as if he/she is here only to cause disruption. The 2nd edit from this account requested the users page be protected 'to prevent spam'. The account then went on to make the same requests on several different articles.(1,2,3,4), then made some odd edits(1,2,3) before completely stopping any edits for several months when he started editing the Jackson page. Something is going on, and I suspect the editor is here only for disruption purposes, and could be related to another account who recently vandalized the Jackson article. Help? Dave Dial (talk) 01:47, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I've deleted the drivers license file (it's got to be a copyvio, surely) and the bizarre Talk:Wikipedia Improve Center. I think it's more cluelessness than malevolence, but if he posts the same change to Michael Jackson again, he is over 3RR --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yea, I saw that page too. Definitely strange. Perhaps you're right about the 'cluelessness', but the edits being made seem strange. I stopped reverting his changes because I didn't want to get into an edit war. So I will let someone else change it back. Thanks for the response and help, Elen. Dave Dial (talk) 02:10, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- There is another edit war going on concerning whether Jackson "died" or "was manslaughtered" (a term I've never even heard of). One editor is on the verge of a 3RR violation, which I commented on on their Talk page, and which they somehow claim that I'm being pointy, when I am not even involved in the editing. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 19:00, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- That battle finally quieted down, and the editor seemingly let go after multiple reversions by different editors. It was a very silly discussion, even by Wikipedia standards, as the Jackson lead is remarkably well written and thorough, covering both the medical cause of death and the Murray conviction. Why the editor wanted to change the article is beyond me. As for the word "manslaughter", it is a noun, and even the unusually adaptable English language hasn't yet permitted it to morph into a verb (I remember years ago when I found out, much to my horror, that "party" had become a verb). To get around this seemingly insurmountable obstacle, the editor tried the phrase "involuntarily killed", a dreadful term from a legal perspective. Anyway, it seems to be over.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:26, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Probable unauthorised bot, relatively new editor; other contrib looks like machine-translation (bad combination!)
| Closed as resolved. User has entered into dialog with reporting editor. No admin action required. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:32, 12 November 2011 (UTC) |
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The contributions for new user (registered 6th October 2011) User:NotWith first contribs; are highly suggestive of an unauthorised bot. I came across one of his new pages whilst on NPP, which also looks suspiciously like a machine-translation (and probably copyvio, therefore). The idea of a user who combines an unauthorised bot with producing machine-translation copyvios makes me shudder! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- ...which contributions are you referring to? I see a lot of disambiguation edits, but not much else. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 12:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Oh, you mean the disambiguation edits? Humans can do those pretty quick. Also, there are loads of random edits thrown in there, exactly as a human edits (always getting sidetracked!). - Jarry1250[Weasel? Discuss.] 12:30, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He does appear that he's using WP:AWB or something to add/fix wikilinks. He has created some bizarre disambigs that simply re-link to another disambig (and I removed a bunch as G8). (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not listed as an authorised user of AWB. Confirming the creation of dabs that link to other dabs., and appears to be able to do this at a rate of up to 2 a minute (I can't do that - perhaps I'm not human). Creates maps too that look suspiciously from Google maps, but I'm not a copyright expert on imags. Appears to be taking random book, comic, and place names from articles concerned with northern France and/or Belgium/Holland and creating redirects for them. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:01, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
He's now movingLast month he moved dozens of pages like this: (moved Diadora (genus) to Diadora (beetle). i know nothing about taxonomy, but I'm sure this,isn't right.I suggest an emergency block until he has explained what he's doing.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:06, 11 November 2011 (UTC)- I'm not seeing a discussion of this on his talkpage, just a one liner about some page move that he did. Someone suggested he try writing an article instead, which he seems to have done --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:18, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- He does appear that he's using WP:AWB or something to add/fix wikilinks. He has created some bizarre disambigs that simply re-link to another disambig (and I removed a bunch as G8). (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I have asked him how it was done! Elen, on On 8th October, for instance, (two days after registering with us), he opened, edited and re-saved nearly 200 pages between 08:02 and 14:28, for the most part at the rate of around one a minute, with apparently no breaks. That's six and a half hours without even a loo break. Adding: I can;t believe that a single human being is capable of this; this leaves us with either a bot or multiple users on one account. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 13:39, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I see nothing nefarious, just a misunderstanding of dabs and a lot of relatively unnecessary redirects. I'm not sure about the taxonomic moves.187 redirects, 61 pages created most of which are dabs (some of which are actually quite good), the rest are 1-line stubs about insects. Other edits are normal clean ups. We have other users that work at this rate for very short stubs and have created nearly 1 mio pages. You just create a basic model on your computer with all the page elements and paste it and change a few words. Easy enough if they are all about the same thing. I suggest we wait until he responds on his talk page or makes edits again. Nothing to worry about. I think we can close this. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not to assume bad faith, but this reminds me somewhat of what User:TigreTiger (later found to be a sockpuppet of Tobias Conradi) did within a few days of the account's existence, although that was with geographic issues instead. Not sure if that warrants looking into. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well there's a response on the talk page, to which I've responded. I'm trying to think of a way to explain my gut feelings here, and having trouble. To do all that as an experienced editor, and to say "That's the basic job of correcting links that point to disambiguation pages. I think plenty of people know that!" as an experienced editor, is fine. But to do all that disambig/redirect work within two days of registering, just doesn't feel right. And the response itself has left me with even more concerns in respect of the article Instituto de Resseguros do Brasil. On the talk page, we have an editor who is clearly fluent. But the article isn't, it reads like a machine translation. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- The disambiguation redirects are appropriate, and this type of redirect is mentioned in the guidelines (WP:INTDABLINK). There is a template, {{R to disambiguation page}}, for explaining their purpose. Peter E. James (talk) 02:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Not to assume bad faith, but this reminds me somewhat of what User:TigreTiger (later found to be a sockpuppet of Tobias Conradi) did within a few days of the account's existence, although that was with geographic issues instead. Not sure if that warrants looking into. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I see nothing nefarious, just a misunderstanding of dabs and a lot of relatively unnecessary redirects. I'm not sure about the taxonomic moves.187 redirects, 61 pages created most of which are dabs (some of which are actually quite good), the rest are 1-line stubs about insects. Other edits are normal clean ups. We have other users that work at this rate for very short stubs and have created nearly 1 mio pages. You just create a basic model on your computer with all the page elements and paste it and change a few words. Easy enough if they are all about the same thing. I suggest we wait until he responds on his talk page or makes edits again. Nothing to worry about. I think we can close this. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Adding: that early stuff was all changing / making wikilinks, not new stub creation. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:07, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- With the exception of the page moves, I am not seeing anything problematic with his edits. Nor am I seeing any copyright violations. All he is doing is creating valid redirects and disambiguating articles. Is it possible he has had prior Wikipedia experience, possibly as an IP editor? He shouldn't have moved those pages without discussion, but he doesn't appear to be making anymore moves. All the edits he is making could be made by a human editor. It is possible he is using a script to semi-automate the process, but that is permitted by policy. For all we know, he could just be opening up a large number of tabs and saving everything at once. For now, I think we should assume good faith for now. Alpha_Quadrant(talk) 03:16, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- The article Instituto de Resseguros do Brasil mentioned above appears to be a "rough" translation of the Portuguese-language article of the same name. It may have been a machine-translation job that was not properly cleaned up. Hohenloh + 05:14, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
User:Tovalu using silly edit summaries
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Tovalu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This user has a habit of using edit summaries for very silly comments that he considers "jokes". You can see quite a few of them at his contributions page, but they include such rib-tickers as...
- "THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS FUNNY. THIS IS A BUNNY."
- "Wishful thinking is like waterskiing; it starts with a W"
- "My briefcase contains walnuts, a hammer, and a sea lion".
Judging by a couple of barnstars, some people find this amusing, but I find it annoying and disruptive, and I consider it an abuse of the edit summary field - any serious person trying to understand the history of an article is not going to want to see such nonsense. Anyway, I have tried to talk to him on both his Talk page and on my Talk page, but he seems insistent that he will only continue to edit if he can continue including his "jokes" in edit summaries - his latest suggestion is to include both a factual summary (eg "Typo") plus the "joke". So, innocent fun that should be allowed, or disruptive use of edit summaries that should be stopped? I'd appreciate your thoughts on my warning to him - if the consensus is that I am wrong and he be allowed to continue, I will drop this. But if the consensus is that he should stop, I'd appreciate a little support - and if he refuses to stop, then I would request a block -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- PS: He has also told me "I have used more than one account and in total I have done well over 80k edits on Wikipedia", so I don't know what else, if anything, might lie behind this -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:26, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- A part of this discussion is on my talkpage, another part is on Boing's talkpage.
- I explained Boing already that this is not the right place for this discussion. What may lie behind this is not really a secret, just a weird person who is addicted to Wikipedia and has way too much free time. I've tried to explain Boing that threatening to block good-faith editors is almost always counter-productive. I honestly think this is harmless fun, and I am willing to use a descriptive editsummary but I want to add a small weird joke to it (e.g. "Typofix - Ducks are not your enemy!"). Tovalu (talk) 11:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC) p.s. The editsummary that contains "THIS IS FUNNY" was a notice that I stopped doing the serious work and continued doing simple typofixes, a couple of edits before that you'll see THIS IS NOT FUNNY. This notice was in all-caps, and a bit spammy because of the repetition, the jokes are not.
- (ec)Such "so called funny" edit summaries are a bad idea - they will offend or irritate at least as many people as it amuses and runs the risk that someone will revert what may be a perfectly good edit when they see a rediculous edit summary and assume that the edit is vandalism - please stop doing it.Nigel Ish (talk) 11:45, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- First, I appreciate that Boing tried to talk him through this first. However, he appears to have failed to see the problem, and asked you not to bring it to ANI. As I recently added to the conversation on your talkpage, although humour is fine in some cases/locations, Wikipedia as a whole is not a joke or toy. Edit summaries are integral, and permanent - they have a purpose, and for the most part humour or other inappropriate uses when it comes to article are, well, inappropriate. Continuation of the behaviour would likely be considered disruptive. On the subject of his possible sockpuppetry ... additionally problematic. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:41, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- (ec) You yourself in this edit state that "I have used more than one account and in total I have done well over 80k edits on Wikipedia". Your words, not mine. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- And that is the truth. But that does not mean I am a sockpuppet. Tovalu (talk) 11:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC) p.s. You are an admin, but just in case you are unaware read this: WP:SOCK
- Nobody is portraying you in a bad light: you were actually thanked for the work you did, but asked to follow a policy, you declined. If you decline to follow a policy, it needs to be escalated. Here's another one for you to follow: your signature is ALWAYS the last thing, do not p.s. things after it. As adults, we accept constructive criticism, adjust our behaviour, and move on with life...don't lash out at people who try to help you. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wait, sorry, you are going a bit too quick. You wrote: "...asked to follow a policy, you declined...". Would you please be so kind to link me to that policy? I am unaware it exists! And no one asked me to follow it with a link to that policy. If you can show me a policy page that requires editsummaries to contain nothing but info about the edit then ofcourse I have to follow that policy. Also, can you give me the link where I declined to follow that policy? Tovalu (talk) 12:03, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I already linked to it above ... see where I said "Edit summaries are integral, and permanent"...oh, and I see it was a warning on your talkpage here (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- And if you've been around for 80,000 edits, Tovalu, then you already know how edit summaries are supposed to be used -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:13, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You seem to be unaware of what a policy is. WP:SOCK is a policy. Wikipedia:Signatures is a guideline. WP:ES says: "This is an information page that describes communal consensus on some aspect of Wikipedia norms and practices. While it is not a policy or guideline itself, it is intended to supplement or clarify other Wikipedia practices and policies.". So, the questions are:
- Please link me to the edits where someone asked me to follow a policy and I declined.
- Would you retract your statement about sockpuppetry and apologize if a CU confirmed the fact I am not a sock?
- Tovalu (talk) 12:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- ...and don't forget, if you simply use the "alternate" account to make minor fixes and try and be funny, it is an improper use of an alternate account, thus making it a WP:SOCK. Holy crap, I did not accuse you of being a sock, I re-quoted your own words, and advised you accordingly. Holy wikilawyering, Batman. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:18, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Holy cow, Robin. Well, I like to think I am quite aware of the policies, guidelines and informationpages on Wikipedia. I've read 'em all AFAIK. I do not have an alternate account at this moment in space and time, that's why I asked you to file a CU request if you are willing to retract your comment and apologize when the CU confirms I am not a sock. Again, the same question, because you did not answer:
- Please link me to the edits where someone asked me to follow a policy and I declined.
- Thanks in advance, Tovalu (talk) 12:25, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, I don't think we need the Wikilawyering here. I asked Tovalu to stop making silly edit summaries, based on established practise, and Tovalu declined to do so. So we've come here to seek a consensus - because that's the way we do such things at Wikipedia. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:28, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where did I decline to do so? Please link me to that edit. Thanks in advance, Tovalu (talk) 12:29, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in any more Wikilawyering and will not respond further to it. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- If you would've been able to find a link that confirmed I declined to use normal editsummaries you would've posted it here. But you did not. Can we conclude no such edit exists? Does that mean you lied? And Bwilkins lied too? Tovalu (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- How about this one? It took me all of 15 seconds to find.--v/r - TP 12:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where in that edit did I refuse to follow policy? Where in that edit did I decline to use normal editsummaries? Tovalu (talk) 13:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- "manually writing a serious editsummary is way too much work and has just a tiny benefit"--v/r - TP 13:23, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You almost won the debate, but luckily I mentioned the option of using a piece of Javascript in my vector.js to autofill the useful part of the editsummary. Ergo: it is not required to manually write every editsummary, Javascript can do it automagically. Tovalu (talk) 13:27, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- No it can't. WP:ES "An edit summary is a brief explanation of an edit". Unless you can write Javascript to understand the context, purpose, and rationale behind your edits; they need to be manually done. The exception is automated editing which can use automated edit summaries. Also note, Wikipedia is not about winning--v/r - TP 13:36, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, fixing typos is my main "task" here. If I need to do a serie of different edits, not typo-related, I comment the .js out and refresh my browsercache. With a bit more advanced Javascript I can add buttons to my interface. Every button is a different editsummary. Tovalu (talk) 13:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- No it can't. WP:ES "An edit summary is a brief explanation of an edit". Unless you can write Javascript to understand the context, purpose, and rationale behind your edits; they need to be manually done. The exception is automated editing which can use automated edit summaries. Also note, Wikipedia is not about winning--v/r - TP 13:36, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You almost won the debate, but luckily I mentioned the option of using a piece of Javascript in my vector.js to autofill the useful part of the editsummary. Ergo: it is not required to manually write every editsummary, Javascript can do it automagically. Tovalu (talk) 13:27, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- "manually writing a serious editsummary is way too much work and has just a tiny benefit"--v/r - TP 13:23, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where in that edit did I refuse to follow policy? Where in that edit did I decline to use normal editsummaries? Tovalu (talk) 13:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- How about this one? It took me all of 15 seconds to find.--v/r - TP 12:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- If you would've been able to find a link that confirmed I declined to use normal editsummaries you would've posted it here. But you did not. Can we conclude no such edit exists? Does that mean you lied? And Bwilkins lied too? Tovalu (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not interested in any more Wikilawyering and will not respond further to it. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where did I decline to do so? Please link me to that edit. Thanks in advance, Tovalu (talk) 12:29, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, I don't think we need the Wikilawyering here. I asked Tovalu to stop making silly edit summaries, based on established practise, and Tovalu declined to do so. So we've come here to seek a consensus - because that's the way we do such things at Wikipedia. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:28, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- ...and don't forget, if you simply use the "alternate" account to make minor fixes and try and be funny, it is an improper use of an alternate account, thus making it a WP:SOCK. Holy crap, I did not accuse you of being a sock, I re-quoted your own words, and advised you accordingly. Holy wikilawyering, Batman. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:18, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- And if you've been around for 80,000 edits, Tovalu, then you already know how edit summaries are supposed to be used -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:13, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I already linked to it above ... see where I said "Edit summaries are integral, and permanent"...oh, and I see it was a warning on your talkpage here (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wait, sorry, you are going a bit too quick. You wrote: "...asked to follow a policy, you declined...". Would you please be so kind to link me to that policy? I am unaware it exists! And no one asked me to follow it with a link to that policy. If you can show me a policy page that requires editsummaries to contain nothing but info about the edit then ofcourse I have to follow that policy. Also, can you give me the link where I declined to follow that policy? Tovalu (talk) 12:03, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Nobody is portraying you in a bad light: you were actually thanked for the work you did, but asked to follow a policy, you declined. If you decline to follow a policy, it needs to be escalated. Here's another one for you to follow: your signature is ALWAYS the last thing, do not p.s. things after it. As adults, we accept constructive criticism, adjust our behaviour, and move on with life...don't lash out at people who try to help you. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:59, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- And that is the truth. But that does not mean I am a sockpuppet. Tovalu (talk) 11:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC) p.s. You are an admin, but just in case you are unaware read this: WP:SOCK
- (ec) You yourself in this edit state that "I have used more than one account and in total I have done well over 80k edits on Wikipedia". Your words, not mine. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
How about WIKIPEDIA IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA? Go improve the entries on Joke and Humour with serious scholar tomes that can bore a grown man to tears, and stop using uninformative edit summaries in articles that someone else has to edit. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I already said I am willing to use informative editsummaries, that is not the point. Tovalu (talk) 12:37, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, but you said you will add a joke too - and the growing opinion here seems to be that you should not do that. What I move for, which is in line with established practice, is an informative edit summary *only* - with no "jokes" or silly comments added -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Please read my response to Nigel... Established practice is NOT a policy. Tovalu (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- There does not need to be a specific policy, as at Wikipedia we make our decisions based on consensus - and consensus usually takes established practice into consideration too. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- LOL. Bwilkins said: "you were actually thanked for the work you did, but asked to follow a policy, you declined."... Are you unable to respond to my comment dated 12:47, 12 November 2011? If not, please do respond. Tovalu (talk) 12:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You're becoming WP:DISRUPTIVE. And that is an established guideline.--v/r - TP 13:02, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- (many edit conflicts) Please don't add jokes to edit summaries. Please don't make up random jokes just so that other editors would stumble upon them when trying to learn what changes have been made to the articles.
- I mean, nobody ever said that editing wikipedia had to be fun. I mean, writing an encyclopedia being fun?. I mean, it can be enjoyable, maybe, if you enjoy hurting your eyes because of reading thick books (I do). --Enric Naval (talk) 13:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You're becoming WP:DISRUPTIVE. And that is an established guideline.--v/r - TP 13:02, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- LOL. Bwilkins said: "you were actually thanked for the work you did, but asked to follow a policy, you declined."... Are you unable to respond to my comment dated 12:47, 12 November 2011? If not, please do respond. Tovalu (talk) 12:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- There does not need to be a specific policy, as at Wikipedia we make our decisions based on consensus - and consensus usually takes established practice into consideration too. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:53, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Please read my response to Nigel... Established practice is NOT a policy. Tovalu (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, but you said you will add a joke too - and the growing opinion here seems to be that you should not do that. What I move for, which is in line with established practice, is an informative edit summary *only* - with no "jokes" or silly comments added -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Comment First, a response to Tovalu. Our policies, guidelines, and MOS are there for a reason. We, as editors, use them to help build wikipedia and to help with disputes. They are not and should not be viewed simply as established practice, that can be ignored whenever we wish or it suits us. Too many times have I seen major disputes over whether or not "this or that" is an exception to some guideline or MOS. You should probably follow the rules more closely, especially given your purported inexperience with wikipedia. Next, a response to everyone else. Lighten up. I have seen many an experienced or veteran editor use lighthearted and humorous edit summaries. I use them from time to time as well. It sometimes breaks up the monotony of editing and makes the "hobby of editing wikipedia" more fun. Most likely, Tovalu would have done one of two things. He/she would have either made a few edits (given that he/she only has about 150 edits), and get bored and move on. Or he/she would continue editing, get more experience, and realize that those edit summaries are not helpful. Either way, it doesn't deserve so much drama.--JOJ Hutton 13:13, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You should become admin. You have the skills that are required for the job. I am very experienced actually, I have more edits then Boing! said Zebedee and Bwilkins combined.
Tovalu (talk) 13:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I'm sure others would disagree. Hopefully you don't get chased off. The others in this thread are only trying to help and hopefully you take the advice and become a great editor.--JOJ Hutton 13:21, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just a perhaps minor correction - Tovalu claims to have 80,000 edits, not 150, and is apparently not a newcomer as you seem to think - and as he has confirmed here. So the "ignore the newcomer, it'll blow over" approach doesn't seem to be applicable -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, its more like "super-experienced editor got bored, decided to fight boredom with humor.". Still, it will blow over. Tovalu (talk) 13:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- OK, fair enough ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, its more like "super-experienced editor got bored, decided to fight boredom with humor.". Still, it will blow over. Tovalu (talk) 13:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- You should become admin. You have the skills that are required for the job. I am very experienced actually, I have more edits then Boing! said Zebedee and Bwilkins combined.
Lots of editors use jokey edit summaries. Others never bother with edit summaries at all. Some always manage to break the section links (little blue arrows). Seems a bit pathetic to pick on just one person. DuncanHill (talk) 13:26, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Well, I've never seen a contributions page quite as full as nonsense summaries as Tovalu's - did you actually look? If you can find any others like that, I'll be happy to pick on them too -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:30, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- When you do, please stick to the facts and don't make stuff up as you did here. Tovalu (talk) 13:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I believe that comment was a fair summary of what happened, but if you think not then it was at worst a misunderstanding of your response, and not a deliberate lie.
Whether you intended to decline my request or not, you certainly did not agree to it. And that's why we are here - to seek a consensus. But if you want to clarify, please feel free to tell us whether you agree to my request (which is to omit all the silliness from your edit summaries), decline my request, or something else-- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)- Aha, I've just reread it all and have only just seen "Hello Nigel Ish! Thanks, that is useful feedback. OK, I'll stop." above. You have my apologies for my having missed it, and my thanks. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wow. Dude, you are cool. It takes balls to do what you just did. Thanks. I accept your apology and in return I apologize for being the stubborn crazy person that I am (I was born that way). You can safely assume I never outright declined to follow standard practice, no need to search for an edit that does not exist. Please do check the difference between policy, guideline and information pages, that is important in some cases. Thanks again, Tovalu (talk) 14:05, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, when I read it again and saw that comment I'd missed, I had one of those "Oh F..." moments ;-) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Wow. Dude, you are cool. It takes balls to do what you just did. Thanks. I accept your apology and in return I apologize for being the stubborn crazy person that I am (I was born that way). You can safely assume I never outright declined to follow standard practice, no need to search for an edit that does not exist. Please do check the difference between policy, guideline and information pages, that is important in some cases. Thanks again, Tovalu (talk) 14:05, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Aha, I've just reread it all and have only just seen "Hello Nigel Ish! Thanks, that is useful feedback. OK, I'll stop." above. You have my apologies for my having missed it, and my thanks. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I believe that comment was a fair summary of what happened, but if you think not then it was at worst a misunderstanding of your response, and not a deliberate lie.
- When you do, please stick to the facts and don't make stuff up as you did here. Tovalu (talk) 13:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- The problem with these sorts of edit summaries is that it puts a burden on other editors to see what you actually changed. If a proper summary was used, i.e. "fixed a typo in the lead" or "added a bit about a recent controversy", then most won't have to click through to the actual diff to see what it was. Using something like the "this is funny, this is a bunny" string pretty much guarantees that everyone who sees it will be compelled to clickthough to see if it is vandalism. So, please, could you use the edit summary field to reflect what you're actually changing? If you need a humor outlet, I'd say there's some leeway when commenting on article talk pages or on policy pages, but when you're editing articles, that'd be the time to be serious. Tarc (talk) 13:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I misread that as "This is a bunny on a string" <-- an awesome edit summary for Tampon. --95.121.219.183 (talk) 14:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- The problem with these sorts of edit summaries is that it puts a burden on other editors to see what you actually changed. If a proper summary was used, i.e. "fixed a typo in the lead" or "added a bit about a recent controversy", then most won't have to click through to the actual diff to see what it was. Using something like the "this is funny, this is a bunny" string pretty much guarantees that everyone who sees it will be compelled to clickthough to see if it is vandalism. So, please, could you use the edit summary field to reflect what you're actually changing? If you need a humor outlet, I'd say there's some leeway when commenting on article talk pages or on policy pages, but when you're editing articles, that'd be the time to be serious. Tarc (talk) 13:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I would concur that these edit summaries are more of a harm than a help to the encyclopaedia. I admire the user's attempt to bring some humorous daylight into our lives, but from a purely practical point of view, I can't make head or tail of his changes to an article without going into each one individually to see what he did, and that overturns the basic reason to have edit summaries in the first place, to see at a glance what has been done to an article. From the most established editor to the most humble beginner, we need to use edit summaries properly, so it doesn't really matter how many edits Tovalu has be it on this account or any other account. The user did say he would stop some time ago in this conversation, as Boing! has correctly highlighted, so unless there are any further issues can this not be resolved? S.G.(GH) ping! 14:08, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yep, sounds good to me. Meanwhile, I'm just off to write some lines ("I *will* read what everybody says more carefully. I *will* read what...") -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:13, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Holy misery Batman, there are some dour humour impaired editors/admins round here. I'm all for Tovalu's edit summaries with humour. So long as the contain a proper summary too then I see no harm in adding a slice of humour. This project needs more lightheartedness, there are far too many miserable gits around here making what should be an enjoyable pastime an arduous and soul-destroying task. --The Pink Oboe (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- About 50% of the editors here never bother with an edit summary at all. But because Tovalu puts a joke in instead of leaving it blank, he needs to be slapped in the face to show who's an admin and who isn't?. Adminship has really jumped the shark. Tovalu, adding a descriptive edit summary and a joke too was a reasonable compromise, and you can feel free to do it if you want. If some idiot blocks you for it, I'll unblock. If you'd prefer not to, just to avoid the bullies, I understand that too. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:46, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- ↑Like. Seriously - it was established ages ago that you can't block someone for refusing to use edit summaries properly (or at least, you can't block Jimbo for his repeated refusal - but of course bullies never take on anyone with more power than themselves, they only ever pick on the weak). DuncanHill (talk) 14:51, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Kudos to that admin with a sense of humour. Unfortunately sir, you're a dying breed. --The Pink Oboe (talk) 14:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- (EC) JOJ, if you continue like this I am gonna use my
cabalmagical powers to make you admin. Boing! said Zebedee is actually a cool guy, he made a mistake but he is brave enough to admit it, and that makes him a good admin. This was a learning experience for all parties involved. Tovalu (talk) 15:01, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- (EC) JOJ, if you continue like this I am gonna use my
Possible acts of Meatpuppetry
Recently, when I went and reported User: Gunmetal Angel for edit warring, it appears that he and another user User:Jer757 have been committing acts of meat-puppetry - most notably on the article Blood on the Dance Floor, where they had been teaming up with each other to attack another user. Another incident happended with the user Salamibears58, where they yet again did the same thing - badgering another user intemperately. I'm not doing this as result of hatred, I'm just putting this as a point of concern. Abhijay Let's have a chat, my friend. 05:11, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Meatpuppetry is where I get my sister and her girlfriend to add edits for me. I believe you are thinking of WP:TAGTEAM, where two editors team up, usually to keep reverting and avoid 3RR blocks. In this case, Gunmetal Angel just seems to have found a like minded editor to work with,
unfortunately not to the overall benefit of the project. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:00, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Striking last statement - Abhijay, you seem to be bringing up an old situation that got talked out a week ago. I thought you meant that he was still arguing about Blood on the Dance Floor. If there is current problematic editing, you need to give diffs, as I can see no edit warring in his current contributions. Also, you must notify both editors of this report. You haven't done so. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Most of this happened almost 2 weeks ago, I would have understood if it was reported then. But whatever. As for the tag-teaming, I don't have contact with User:Gunmetal Angel outside of wikipedia, and we've only had words through talk pages a few times where everyone can see. I fail to see how the Talk:Blood_on_the_Dance_Floor_(group) incident was even "tag teaming", it had appeared that we all finally agreed on something, but User:Ylightflight decided to go against it again, and even ended up blocked for WP:Sockpuppetry on the same article. The encounter with User:Salamibears58 started here, which again we tried to come to a consensus, and that was the end of that, almost 3 months ago. I have reverted a few of his unsourced genre changes, and told him why I reverted them, which he seemed fine with. Here, and here[220], are the other run its with User:Salamibears58 if you're curious. -Jer Hit me up 21:32, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
User:4567treminater
4567treminater (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
The account seems to have been set up by an experienced edd for the purposes of disruption. The account has only been uses to edit three pages [[221]] The Falklands page (3 disruptive edits, and no more, indicating the user knows about 3RR)
His own talk page (blanking requests to stop vandalising the Falklands page). [[225]] [[226]]
I have been in danger of badgering and so have stopped posting there.
And my own talk page (where his tone has boarded on PA's, and have not been constructive). [[227]] [[228]] [[229]] [[230]] (this I think shows the user is more then familiar with what constitutes a PA, by the way he just avoids actually making one).
As I have said all this implies a disruption account.Slatersteven (talk) 17:06, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- This person is probably the same as Feresias (talk·contribs). This person came in yesterday and got blocked quite quickly for their edits.Dawnseeker2000 17:09, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Looks the same, a range block might be in order.Slatersteven (talk) 17:11, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Definitely same as Feresias - there's more. Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:30, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
ConfirmedFeresias(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
ConfirmedSiluria592(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
ConfirmedTelanian(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
ConfirmedKyrenator(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
ConfirmedElvellian(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:38, 12 November 2011 (UTC) Oh, and
Confirmed6339Treminator(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). One of the IPs belongs to the University of Bath, the other has had account creation blocked for a bit to slow him down.Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- This is a lot of effort for little gain.Is there a way to track the IP's actions? as it seems to me that anyone making this amount of effort won't stop.Slatersteven (talk) 17:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- How do you think I found him? I iz tooled up...Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:51, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks Elen of the Roads (talk) 19:14, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Checkuser Requested
Some ongoing tendentious editing via 78.106.157.9 (talk · contribs), User:95.29.84.132 and 89.179.25.127 (talk · contribs) is occuring on HJ Mitchell's talk page. Apparently a user, on the three IPs listed, wants to upload either a song or video belonging to The Beatles onto Wikipedia under either Fair Use or CC...or something. Everyone and their brother knows that isn't going to happen, but the user refuses to "get it" and move on. HJ responded once, I have tried to make sense of the rules for the user (didn't work), as did another user. I am beginning to think that this might be more than just tendentious editing, hence the checkuser request.
The IPs are registered to a DSL provider called "Ojsc Vimpelcom" located in Moscow, Russia. Any help that can be given would be appreciated. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:26, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Beatles? Fair Use? This one quacks like Ron Halls (talk·contribs). Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:33, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, a name I am unfamiliar with. Well, he has several ranges to himself, so if there is little collaterial damage, maybe a rangeblock or three might be in order as well as the checkuser. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Looks pretty ducky - CU is not supposed to link IPs to named accounts, however. Considering Ron Halls' broken English and attempts to include the exact same Russian link that 93.81.184.126 (talk·contribs) and 89.179.105.162 (talk·contribs) did here, it looks pretty likely to all be related to one user or some meatpuppets. Doctalk 20:46, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- I just like to have all my ducks in a row (pun intended) before requesting for blocks, but hey, I will take a quack block any day. I think rangeblocks are still in order. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:02, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Looks pretty ducky - CU is not supposed to link IPs to named accounts, however. Considering Ron Halls' broken English and attempts to include the exact same Russian link that 93.81.184.126 (talk·contribs) and 89.179.105.162 (talk·contribs) did here, it looks pretty likely to all be related to one user or some meatpuppets. Doctalk 20:46, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah, a name I am unfamiliar with. Well, he has several ranges to himself, so if there is little collaterial damage, maybe a rangeblock or three might be in order as well as the checkuser. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, these are
Confirmed as having the same operator.
No comment about whether the IPs are operated by Ron Halls. IP range blocks put down, so maybe that will help, but as you will see from the huge variation in the addresses, this guy jumps around a lot. AGK [•] 23:03, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Awesome, thanks AGK. I appreciate the help and blocks. Thanks to everyone else as well for their help. I think we can call this resolved. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:16, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, these are
- HJ responded once, I have tried to make sense of the rules for the user (didn't work), as did another user. - That was me; I was in the area on other business and, frankly, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. For future reference, where is this guy from? CycloneGU (talk) 01:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- All the IPs are from Russia. As for the named account, there is no official comment on his location. But I would bet Russia's about right (just my opinion only). Doctalk 01:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is correct, it was CycloneGU who was the "another user". Figured the less people I mentioned, the quicker we could come to a resolution (without waiting for people to comment before doing so). :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:34, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- All the IPs are from Russia. As for the named account, there is no official comment on his location. But I would bet Russia's about right (just my opinion only). Doctalk 01:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
WP:OWN behavior by User:Oldsingerman20
This seems to be a long-standing behavior concerning the article New Guinea Singing Dog. User:Oldsingerman20's reaction to a minor layout edit (regarding his placement of a picture in the lead section) was puzzlingly hostile and displays WP:OWN behavior. A compromise has been reached but I still think someone should explain why his behavior is disruptive, as I don't seem to pass his "requirements" for giving advice or for editing the article.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 03:19, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- He says he is leaving the project here, I would suggest we keep an eye out and see what happens.--Adam in MO Talk 08:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Persistent edit war over Alexander Misharin
Recently there was another report on the case. Edit war was stopped for a time, but now it continues. --ssr (talk) 16:20, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- The initiator of edit war is Mr Rublev (user:ssr) who is employed by Alexander Misharin as his "blog secretary". He is payed for attempts of political censorship in Wikipedia. Mr Rublev goal is "to remove his writings and not to allow him to write" (about user Gritzko who is claimed by Mr Rublev as another conflict of interest party). Mr Rublev wrote an article praising his employer - Russian Governor of Sverdlovsk Oblast Alexander Misharin - and reverts any attempt to add information about corruption scandals. This information is backed up by federal and local press publications but obviously Mr Rublev will never be satisfied and is going to guard his version of the article on behalf of his employer.--217.118.91.104 (talk) 17:16, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- Mr Rublev insists on deleting article's content that is unpleasant to his master but fortunately this information was published by Russian press which means it should not be deleted from Wikipedia. I suggest temporary ban for user Ssr to prevent his vandalism attempts. --213.87.76.119 (talk) 11:12, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- SSR, is it true that you have a close connection with Misharin? Are you being paid to edit his Wikipedia page? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Nomoskedasticity, please see details at further discussion at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Alexander_Misharin. --ssr (talk) 10:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- SSR, is it true that you have a close connection with Misharin? Are you being paid to edit his Wikipedia page? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Vandal stalking me on multiple pages
Recently I was involved in getting Ronald Ryan and talk page blocked due to the attentions of a long term abusive editor. She subsequently went after my talk page (now semi-ed), then started pestering the admins involved in protecting these pages, and is now reverting my contributions all over the place. See Special:Contributions/216.24.206.155 for examples.
Blocking the current IP would be nice but is unlikely to stop her for long - she's previously used open proxies and/or a rerouting service to evade blocks, see her LTA page for details. She's quite obsessive, judging by the time she's spent hammering away at Ronald Ryan and the way she behaves when thwarted. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? --GenericBob (talk) 03:00, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Various of us know and (a) you're not the only one it seems, (b) I'm just about to AIV it - as soon as it gets one further. So, hang in there... just waiting for that moment. Four is the magic number, and the next such action passes it. Best, ROBERTMFROMLI TK/CN 03:05, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
And she's back. --GenericBob (talk) 12:32, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Ankitbhatt, pattern of personal attacks
Ankitbhatt (talk · contribs) has shown a recent history of personal attacks. A discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_11#Ra_One_-_Response_section, which included warnings by several editors, not to engage in personal attacks was closed when Ankitbhatt stated their intention to leave Wikipedia [231]. User has previously been warned on the their talk page User_talk:Ankitbhatt#October_2011. Most recently, user called another editor "a prick" [232]. Adminstrator User:Stephan Schulz collapsed/closed current Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance#Incivility_by_User:AnkitBhatt. Had this been a single incident, I would concur, however given the continued pattern of behavior, including Ankitbhatt's responsed at WQA, I'm requesting additional review by the admin community. Gerardw (talk) 14:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Dr Blofeld
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
User:Dr. Blofeld: Unprovoked and exceedingly rude attack on administrator trying to maintain principle that articles linked from main page should conform to a minimum standard. Quote: "By failing to link it you are being an irritating little shit". This from someone who has, at the top of his user talk page "Above all I hate negative people and some people are so negative on here that they bring the whole atmosphere of the website down.". Kevin McE (talk) 16:02, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Just link Resignation of Silvio Berlusconi on the "resigns" part of the front page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now thousands of people are coming here looking for information about this and you are hiding it from them. Yes that is irritating and purposefully being difficult. What exactly is the point of opening an ANI? And I'm supposed to blocked for attempting to help the world getting access to information in the best way possible and showing contempt at those who are ignorant of it? And yes you are contributing to the negative atmopshere I identify by opening an ANI and failing to cooperate over this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Kevin McE - has User:Fox objected to Blofeld's statement? Have you notified Fox of this discussion? --Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Certainly do, as noted on Main Page's talk. — Joseph Fox 16:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- This one is really, really easy to solve. Keven McE, trout yourself for bringing something this trivial to AN/I. Dr. Blofeld, trout yourself for resorting to personal attacks. Next passing admin, make the change Dr. Blofeld is suggesting, it seems like it's a net positive. Now, can we move on? I don't see any semblance of need for admin intervention here, other than making the change to the main page. Sven Manguard Wha? 16:26, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
I have apologised to Fox but have said I think it is counterproductive to not link to an article we have about the topic when thousands are searching for it right now. That's all that needs to be said on this.♦ Dr. Blofeld
- My comments on this - thank you, Kevin, for standing up for me, but this is not the correct venue for something so trivial. Blofeld, I have given my reasoning not to include the article in the discussion thread, and I will not budge from that position (well, not any more, anyway). Whether another admins wishes to is up to them. — Joseph Fox 16:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Stubborn eh? That's an admirable trait from an admin Foxy. You stand your ground and never mind the fact thousands of people are looking for information about this right now and you are hampering them from doing so. Perhaps some admin here will see some light in actually linking to a start class article we have about the subject. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- As I say. I would have linked to it, until you decided to say that. Thanks all the same. — Joseph Fox 16:42, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- So you are childishly using what a wikipedian says about you as a valid reason to inhibit the distribution of information to the public. If that isn't admin misconduct I don't know what is. Providing knowledge and making is as accessible as possible should be priority. We have a duty to do this on here. FIne then I'll follow your shining example as an admin and retire from wikipedia until somebody does something about this. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Read through this again, and tell me who is childish. — Joseph Fox 16:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm resorting to your own childish behaviour as admins are leaders on here.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Read through this again, and tell me who is childish. — Joseph Fox 16:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- So you are childishly using what a wikipedian says about you as a valid reason to inhibit the distribution of information to the public. If that isn't admin misconduct I don't know what is. Providing knowledge and making is as accessible as possible should be priority. We have a duty to do this on here. FIne then I'll follow your shining example as an admin and retire from wikipedia until somebody does something about this. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Is this an outing/attempted outting of someone's IP?
I saw this while keeping an eye on a somewhat problematic editor. Is it what I think it is? I thought we weren't even supposed to ask, especially someone without bad edits. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 20:02, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- User:Mark Marino was blocked for socking in 2009, so no, I don't think it's an outing attempt. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:24, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- So, if I were to ask you if you were JD Hanson, without preamble, you'd consider that a friendly 'how-do-you-do'? While it might have been well-intentioned, the user could have easily asked if the person was someone else (a non-vandal). It's like a detective asking the suspect if he did it, rather than using other means (in our case, CU or SPI) to find out the truth without the potential fallout of being connected, even by accusation, to someone else? - Jack Sebastian (talk) 21:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- No it's quite common for blocked/banned editors to return as IP socks. Sometimes warning them that they have been spotted discourages socking, or encourages them to try asking for an unblock. It's not outing. If I asked you whether you were Jane Smith of 53 Acacia Avenue, that would be outing.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- As I understand it outing is revaling real worls facts about a person.Slatersteven (talk) 18:55, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- No it's quite common for blocked/banned editors to return as IP socks. Sometimes warning them that they have been spotted discourages socking, or encourages them to try asking for an unblock. It's not outing. If I asked you whether you were Jane Smith of 53 Acacia Avenue, that would be outing.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- So, if I were to ask you if you were JD Hanson, without preamble, you'd consider that a friendly 'how-do-you-do'? While it might have been well-intentioned, the user could have easily asked if the person was someone else (a non-vandal). It's like a detective asking the suspect if he did it, rather than using other means (in our case, CU or SPI) to find out the truth without the potential fallout of being connected, even by accusation, to someone else? - Jack Sebastian (talk) 21:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Constant addition of unsourced and copy-righted material by editor using an IP address
Someone using this IP address User talk:217.124.240.100 has been cutting and pasting a great deal of unsourced and unattributed copy-righted material from other websites to Wikipedia articles; e.g: Vought F4U Corsair, Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, Douglas SBD Dauntless, Curtiss SB2C Helldiver, Curtiss P-40 Warhawk - in spite of several warnings and requests to stop. To ferret out and remove these changes will require a lot of work on the part of other editors. A permanent block on this IP address may be needed to stop further "contributions" from this editor. Thanks ◆Min✪rhist✪rian◆MTalk 23:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
- I see hundreds of edits, many many warnings on the talk page, but not a single edit to article talk pages or user talk pages. Blocked for a week. Clearly the editor needs to discuss their edits. WilliamH (talk) 00:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Good block. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 02:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
- Hopefully the block will wake this editor up. Thanks for the quick action ◆Min✪rhist✪rian◆MTalk 21:47, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
IP hounding
Could somebody deal with the IP 89.165.121.234 (talk)? The IP is hounding two users, reverting edits and comments made without cause. For those interested, my bet is this is Ledenierhomme (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) nableezy - 17:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Already a 3RR violation at Raheem Kassam. People who start reverting this fast right out of the gate often turn out to be socks. EdJohnston (talk) 17:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- It will be Ledenierhomme as Nableezy says. He often uses anonimizing proxies in Iraqi Kurdistan, now it's Iran (I assume that's what they are). Range blocks have been applied in the past. He's apparently on an important mission...I haven't fully grasped what it is yet other than that he hates database servers. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think we have a recent enough account of Ledenierhomme's to cross-check with, unless there was one that wasn't recorded in the SPI archive. In any case, working without a sock-master in mind, I can't find a link to anybody with the checkuser tool, but that is a given with proxy use. I've blocked the IP for a few days, and will keep an eye out at SPI for similar accounts: if this individual re-appears, please submit an investigation or contact me/another checkuser. Thanks, AGK [•] 20:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- It will be Ledenierhomme as Nableezy says. He often uses anonimizing proxies in Iraqi Kurdistan, now it's Iran (I assume that's what they are). Range blocks have been applied in the past. He's apparently on an important mission...I haven't fully grasped what it is yet other than that he hates database servers. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Anti-constructive editing actions by User:Scheinwerfermann
So I was looking at Right- and left-hand traffic and saw that an inordinate amount of space was devoted to discussing the situation in various countries. Being a long-time editor, both anonymously and under my autoconfirmed account, I recognized that this may not belong here at all, or at least be split of into a separate article. But anyways, That's a bigger project than I'm willing to undertake at the moment. I did notice the entry for Iraq consisted entirely of "Iraq drives on the right." Clearly there's no point in including Iraq if there's nothing of interest to say. Wikipedia is not a guide book and all that, right? There's plenty of countries that aren't listed, and the ones that are listed have at least something interesting said about them, more than a sentence in any case. So I removed it here, with the edit summary "→Iraq: nothing unique to say - we don;t need to list every country" (sorry for the typo). Clearly a valid contribution to Wikipedia by any standard. Even if you disagree, it's a perfectly reasonable edit for a constructive editor to make. Given that the accepted practice on Wikipedia is Bold, revert, discuss no one would criticize this edit, and if they disagreed, they'd use it as an opportunity to start a discussion, right?
As imminently reasonable as that is, you'd be wrong. User:Scheinwerfermann felt the only reasonable response to revert it without comment, using twinkle of course. Like most editors, I've had enough experience with twinkle users or other "recent change patrollers" to know that they generally don't even look at the edits they're reverting. So I reverted the reversion, pointing out that it "couldn't possibly be considered vandalism, try looking at the edit instead of just doing what Twinkle tells you to". Rather than acknowledging their mistake, User:Scheinwerfermann AGAIN reverted without comment or discussion and then left a disruptive editing warning on my talk page] with the edit summary "Warning: Page blanking, removal of content on Right- and left-hand traffic." Since I didn't blank the page, remove any actual content, nor engage in anything that could be considered disruptive editing I found this baffling. User:Scheinwerfermann isn't even being consistent on whether they consider my edits to be vandalism or disruptive, much less engaging in consensus building or actually providing an explanation for their actions.
So, following the established process of bold, revert, discuss, I started a discussion on the talk page and reinstated the constructive improvement to the article (this was spread out over several days, no 3RR violations on either side) with the edit summary "still not vandalism, see talk page".
User:Scheinwerfermann, still not interested in constructive discussion, again with the same twinkle-generated (false) claim of vandalism and placed a "final warning", again with the false accusation of page blanking. They did, at least, throw a bone to the concept of consensus building by replying on the talk page. Unfortunately, that comment was completely condescending, outright rejected the Bold, revert, consensus process, and more or less boiled down to "I refuse to even consider the possibility that you are capable of making a constructive edit".
As stated above, I don't see how any reasonable editor could consider removing the one pointless sentence on Iraq to be vandalism, nor categorize attempts to generate discussion and build consensus around that topic be considered disruptive. Even if you think this list ought to be exhaustive, there's no reason to leave this one sentence intact while dozens of other countries aren't even mentioned. Yet User:Scheinwerfermann has repeatedly asserted ownership, failed to assume good faith, and have repeatedly demonstrated unwillingness to engage in discussion or consensus building. I don't see how that attitude is compatible with the goals of the project. 108.67.153.215 (talk) 07:27, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ha! I find this rather funny, even if it is a little pointy. Anyhow, I can't but agree with your account of the story. Herr Scheinwerfermann is clearly reverting reflexively, and thinks that IP addresses are by definition vandals. Ho hum. Slap on the hand and then let's continue as before. :) --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 07:45, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that he has had a "retirement" notice on his talkpage for two years, and (while still editing fairly regularly), hasn't been engaging much if at all with other editors there. But in all this seems to be a rather minor infraction. Nothing to lose sleep over. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 07:54, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- If I had a dime for every "retired" or "semi-retired" editor I've seen editing... I'd have a sh!%load of dimes! Doctalk 07:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Le Petomane Thruway? Now, what'll that asshole think of next? –MuZemike 08:42, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- If I had a dime for every "retired" or "semi-retired" editor I've seen editing... I'd have a sh!%load of dimes! Doctalk 07:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Jbmurray, you're right: I don't have many discussions on my talk page. When discussion with another editor is warranted, I generally take it to his or her talk page. —Scheinwerfermann T·C09:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- "I refuse to even consider the possibility that you are capable of making a constructive edit" You might want to consider again. Wikipedia has fairly strict standards for what connotes vandalism, and the IP editor's edit doesn't even come close to fitting the guidelines. The editor wasn't trying to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia with his edit. Your insistence on calling this vandalism gives the impression of contempt, which is much more troubling than one good-faith edit which you personally disagree with. --NellieBly (talk) 11:02, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- NellieBly, the words you put in quotation marks are the complainant's, not mine. —Scheinwerfermann T·C19:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Concur that it is not acceptable to label this edit as vandalism. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 11:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Scheinwerfermann, here's a nice simple note. The Twinkle rollback feature can only be used to revert genuine WP:VANDAL vandalism. If an editor misuses it in a content dispute, disregarding warnings, they can be blocked. This doesn't appear to be WP:VANDAL vandalism, it looks like a content dispute. Therefore you should consider this a warning to be more careful how you use the Twinkle rollback feature in future. If you still object to the IPs edit, please either discuss it on the talkpage as is recommended for a content dispute, or explain it here if you consider there is some villany by the IP that we are not aware of. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for the advisory; I shall comply. I don't believe there's any villainy, skullduggery, rottenness or evil on the part of the IP. —Scheinwerfermann T·C19:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you. I think that closes the matter as far as any administrative action is concerned. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
disruptive edits to Geena Davis page
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
User:Nymf removed two images from the Geena Davis page a few months ago with no explanation or discussion on the talk page. One of these pictures was taken by me and I occasionally check the page to see if it is still there. --T1980 (talk) 00:58, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- Which images and when? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:07, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- It was actually User:Nymf not User:Nues20 who removed the images but the latter has many warnings. The images were removed 18:11, 21 August 2011--T1980 (talk) 01:10, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- they were File:Geena Davis at Bates.JPG and Image:Geena.JPG --T1980 (talk) 01:12, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
The user who removed the pictures appears to have a clean record. I sent a friendly reminder to discuss changes such as these before making them. I would consider the matter closed.--T1980 (talk) 01:16, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- His edit summary was "trim images", which really tells you nothing, but I'm guessing he thought they were not very well-placed in the article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:29, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- I originally reported this believing User:Nues20 removed the images (this user seems to have changed their location just before the the other user removed them, which led me to thinking Nues20 removed them) and the many warnings on their talk page led me to post this. If I had known it was User:Nymf who had done this, I would not have reported it. Again, I consider the matter resolved.--T1980 (talk) 01:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
user:Zenkai251
This person started a personal mission this summer that hasn't ended, despite numerous warnings: convinced that material which offends Christians must be removed and that everyone who disagrees with him is an atheist ("silly to boot) or must at least be investigated/outed for their bias about the truth, s/he sarcastically apologized more than once for liking neutrality.
I suggest a topic ban for all articles related to Christianity,[too broad, see below] Creation, and Evolution. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 02:45, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ridiculous, of course. Whether you want to believe it or not, I am sincerely looking for neutrality on said topics. Zenkai251 (talk) 02:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Note: I asked Zenkai, just
minutesseconds before this ANI was filed, to consider editing other topics for a while. My comments were in regards to his most recent string of edits. Please see his talk page for the full details. Thanks. — Jess· Δ♥ 02:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- The Devil put them there. The user in question is one of them creationists that turn up from time to time. AGF that it's not just a Garden-of-Eden-variety troll. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:13, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- True, and there's nothing wrong with being either (or both). But when you're hitting this many walls and winding up the subject of an AN/I report, it might be good to take the advice given to you by Mann jess. More of this stuff, maybe. You can do whatever you want, of course: and good luck :) Doc talk 03:29, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Where's Ludwigs on this? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- He's ignoring all rules? --Blackmane (talk) 03:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I've bumped into a few persons like this on a few Wikis and newsgroup type noticeboards. They are notoriously difficult to deal with as any argument against their literal creationism views is seen as a vile attack against their beliefs. This usually leads to personal attacks and incivility against "evil users" who would "corrupt the net with such falsehoods". The best thing, I hate to say it, is a block. There is absolutely no reasoning with such individuals beyond a total removal from the subject matter. -OberRanks (talk) 03:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Note: Zenkai has agreed to take a break from editing articles related to Christianity. See here. Thanks. — Jess· Δ♥ 04:07, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- @OberRanks, I don't think people who disagree with me are "evil users" who want to "corrupt the net with such falsehoods". I absolutely respect their views. It's just somewhat irksome when people label my views as "myths". Also, who said I take the Genesis creation narrative to be 100% literal? Just so you know, I am a pretty reasonable guy. Zenkai251 (talk) 04:10, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter what our opinions on the subject matter are or our personal faith decisions. What matters is what reliable sources say about a topic and consensus achieved through discussion. I am sorry you don't like that word 'myth' but it is an accurate description. As I said in the post you deleted, you win some and you lose some. When you lose you just have to back up and find somewhere else to contribute. I am happy to see that you are going to contribute in classical music. I am certain that you will be helpful in that area.--Adam in MO Talk 05:14, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- "Myth" is a synonym for "Fairy Tale". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:07, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- [citation needed] --Adam in MO Talk 08:13, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Common usage.[233] ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- There is no common sense.--Adam in MO Talk 08:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- You got that right. Look how the common name "Edelweiss" is handled here. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Google the subject and you'll find that the predominant usage of "myth" is "a story that's not true". ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I did and the first link is a dictionary.com link that doesn't define a myth as exclusivity fictional till the third definition. Either usage fits as far as I am concerned.--Adam in MO Talk 08:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Google the subject and you'll find that the predominant usage of "myth" is "a story that's not true". ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- You got that right. Look how the common name "Edelweiss" is handled here. ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- There is no common sense.--Adam in MO Talk 08:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Common usage.[233] ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- [citation needed] --Adam in MO Talk 08:13, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Speaking of civility, I noticed a few comments above that weren't exactly calculated to calm the situation down... Might I remind you that civility applies even to this noticeboard? Yes, I know it was probably meant good-naturedly. Still. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 04:44, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Ah dear, yes. This isn't about the content people are making fun of. I don't give a damn what Zenkai believes (or anyone else for that matter). But I refuse to be called "atheist", or godless, or whatever the hell one more time, and I don't want to see others labeled that way, either, and I don't want anyone to be asked or investigated what their beliefs are. Zenkai has "taken a break" before, only to come back with the same crap again. If this kinda stuff is condoned as a "content-dispute" then I can think of other labels I can throw around. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 04:49, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I haven't looked through enough edits to have an opinion on whether a ban is merited, but I do have two questions for the proposer about ban breadth - a) do you think Atheism should be included in the ban? b) do you think limiting the ban to Biblical and theological topics instead of the broader Christianity would be sufficient? (e.g. allowing articles such as Martin Luther to be edited). --PhilosopherLet us reason together. 05:20, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, of course. I don't think people like Luther would cause problems; this should be quite narrow in scope. So "Christianity" is too broad. I wouldn't even mind typo-corrections. The spirit of it is that Zenkai needs to stay away from topics where s/he will find something that s/he could supposedly "clean up" and rid of perceived "atheist bias" with respect to evolution/creation/origin of life/definition of "mythology". Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 05:46, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. And note that he doesn't just call people athetists, he calls them "silly atheists" or "foolish". So biblical and theological topics should work. BUT he has agreed to stay away from Christian articles, so maybe we should note that and thus the ban should state Christian articles. I'm still for a ban, what I perceive from his behavior as his zeal would probably bring him back to these articles if it was just self-imposed. Dougweller (talk) 06:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't see where Zenkai251 has had any issues in any religious based articles. I would support a 1RR restriction on origins, including Big Bang, Creation myth and diversification of life articles, broadly construed.--Adam in MO Talk 08:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)- I see now that this editor has been blocked before for socking and edit warring on this particular subject. I support full creation/origins ban as proposed above.--Adam in MO Talk 08:40, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- A sock of which editor(s)? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Sock investigation here.--Adam in MO Talk 08:57, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- (ec) He created a sock in August and edit-warred via IP 71.197.46.82. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 08:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- This user's edit show a clear pov problem. This user has a persistent history of edit warring and pov pushing on these topics.--Adam in MO Talk 09:13, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Propose a limited period topic ban in the aforementioned areas, say 3 (perhaps 6?) months along with mentorship. Zenkai has only been here since July and obviously needs guidance, their faith notwithstanding, in working within Wiki. --Blackmane (talk) 12:30, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Agree A temporary topic ban followed by a probationary period would be salutary based on his contrib. record. Eusebeus (talk) 17:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- This user's edit show a clear pov problem. This user has a persistent history of edit warring and pov pushing on these topics.--Adam in MO Talk 09:13, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- A sock of which editor(s)? ←Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I see now that this editor has been blocked before for socking and edit warring on this particular subject. I support full creation/origins ban as proposed above.--Adam in MO Talk 08:40, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, of course. I don't think people like Luther would cause problems; this should be quite narrow in scope. So "Christianity" is too broad. I wouldn't even mind typo-corrections. The spirit of it is that Zenkai needs to stay away from topics where s/he will find something that s/he could supposedly "clean up" and rid of perceived "atheist bias" with respect to evolution/creation/origin of life/definition of "mythology". Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556> haneʼ 05:46, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I haven't looked through enough edits to have an opinion on whether a ban is merited, but I do have two questions for the proposer about ban breadth - a) do you think Atheism should be included in the ban? b) do you think limiting the ban to Biblical and theological topics instead of the broader Christianity would be sufficient? (e.g. allowing articles such as Martin Luther to be edited). --PhilosopherLet us reason together. 05:20, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Note, So I've noticed you guys want to block me because my views are different then yours. That's just not right at all. No ban is needed at all Zenkai251 (talk) 15:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- NO, that's not it at all. You may have the WP:TRUTH, but Wikipedia goes by WP:CONSENSUS, and WP:NPOV. Pushing your version of your views onto an article is not permitted. Please feel free to have your own views, but be careful in trying to insert them into an article without consensus. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- As you may have seen hinted above, I happen to think that "myth/mythology" having the double meaning of "religious narrative" and "fairy tale" allows non-believers to sneak their POV into these articles. However, they are theoretically on solid academic ground. And edit-warring and socking are not good. Keep your arguments to the article talk pages, and keep them reason-based rather than calling someone a "silly atheist" (just as they might call you or me a "silly religionist"). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:16, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Just to be clear, Zenkai, no one is proposing a topic ban because they disagree with your opinions. There was some joking about your views above, but that was never a serious part of the discussion. Editors are proposing a topic ban because you've gotten into a number of conflicts in your short time here, and there's been some problematic behavior that will probably result in larger problems if it continues. Understand that these problems would be equally concerning if your religious or personal views on the topic were entirely different. Part of the reason this is concerning is that you don't seem to understand that there is even a problem. That makes the situation difficult, since it indicates these issues aren't likely to be fixed or simply go away. I'd like you to notice that I haven't posted any support (or opposition) to the topic ban, but I do understand there are serious concerns. This is why I think adoption might be a good option, because it would allow your mentor to help you out with problematic areas and behavior, without having to impose a formal topic ban. Is any of this any clearer now? — Jess· Δ♥ 17:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Hi Zenkai. Thanks for that. I think a big part of the issue isn't that you were "blunt" or "arrogant". Instead, I think it was mainly a problem recognizing and adhering to consensus. Sometimes, noticing and understanding consensus can be tricky, especially for new editors, and so other issues (like edit warring and tendentious editing) result. I think, if you understand that, and you can make an effort to discuss controversial proposals thoroughly on the talk page as outlined in WP:BRD and WP:DR, and if you can stick to working collaboratively with other editors, mostly limiting yourself to 1 or 2 reverts, that would really help. If you can do that, I (and I'm sure other editors) would be willing to oppose a formal topic ban. I liked seeing that you've been contributing productively to the Concerto article since this ANI case, and I'd really like to see that sort of constructive work continue. Does all that make sense? Does that sound like something you could agree to? — Jess· Δ♥ 22:38, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't trust this deal. We've been there before. None of the warnings or pleading helped. Who will take charge of this, keep an eye on Zenkai, and answer to us when things go wrong (again)? Volunteers? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 22:59, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
So, then as a lesson in community consensus to Zenkai251, I formally propose to the community a 3 month topic ban on articles relating to Creationism and Evolution broadly construed. In this period, Zenkai251 is required to place themselves under mentorship until such time that their mentor is satisfied that they understand the requirements of editing on Wiki. At the end of topic ban, they are permitted to bring this ban back to ANI for community review. Zenkai, this is not a ban to remove you from the project (that falls under WP:CBAN), but a community imposed sanction that you do not edit in those areas that you have had issues with. This does not prevent you from editing in other areas. I see from your contributions that you also edit in music related articles. Please do continue in that area as that is likely to be less controversial and will be a good area for you to get to grips. Also, I proposed mentorship as a mentor will be able to guide you in the relevant policies and also to spot check your edits. --Blackmane (talk) 23:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
- Given that Zenkai has agreed to focus more on other areas (a weak sort of topic ban itself), and has agreed to discuss changes, not edit war, and seek dispute resolution when necessary, I don't feel that a topic ban is necessary at this time. Assuming Zenkai sticks to his word, a ban would not be preventative, and if he does not, it should be easy to bring this back to ANI, referencing this discussion, and enact a topic ban then. If other editors feel unwilling to extend faith that behavior will improve - a sentiment I can understand, given how short Zenkai's responses to this ordeal have been - then we should be discussing mentoring, since the root of the problem would appear to be lack of understanding of our policies. A mentor would also be able to guide Zenkai away from problematic topics (as necessary), and report back here if there were larger issues. Personally, since Zenkai hasn't expressed interest in a mentor, and since he does seem capable of contributing positively, I would rather see give him a chance to stick to his agreement first before imposing sanctions. — Jess· Δ♥ 05:43, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- So — are you the mentor? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 07:18, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- That isn't what I proposed. I would probably be willing, but since I don't have on-wiki experience or established resources to do so, I am probably not the ideal candidate. Finding one should not be difficult. To be clear, I do not think a mentor is necessary at this time. I simply think it is preferable to a topic ban. — Jess· Δ♥ 07:31, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
- ^ Jimmy Wales. "WikiEN-l Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information", May 16, 2006, and May 19, 2006; Jimmy Wales. Keynote speech, Wikimania, August 2006.