위키백과:관리자 알림판/IncidentArchive919

Wikipedia:
알림판 아카이브
관리자 (검색, 검색)
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기타 링크

의심스러운 장난의 반복 재생

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Mrknmer(토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 페이지 이동 · 차단 사용자 · 블록 로그)는 적어도 하나의 노골적인 조작(WP:삭제/헬로비너스의 타임라인).나는 그들의 모든 페이지 작성이 거짓이라고 강하게 의심한다.MLICE(밴드)는 최근 빠르게 삭제되었고, 이후 거의 동일한 컨텐츠로 MTeens(밴드)가 생성되었다.이 밴드의 증거를 찾을 수 없으니, 틀림없이 장난일 거야.비슷한 제목의 다른 교단은 삭제됐지만 나는 보지 못했다.임의86 (대화) 08:10, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

MTeens(밴드)가 삭제되기 전에 본 적이 있는데, 나는 동의한다. — Omni Flame (토크 콘텐트) 10:25, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
편집자가 8개의 기사를 작성했는데 모두 삭제되었다.그래서 그들은 의도적으로 장난을 도입하고 있거나(이 경우, 차단) WP를 그렇게 오해하고 있다.GNGWP:RS 등, 그들이 펍에서 그들의 친구들의 밴드에 대해 쓸 수 있다는 인상을 받는다(이 경우, WP:CIR이 적용될 수 있음)...FortunaImperatrix Mundi 10:33, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
또한 이 사용자는 토크 페이지나 게시판에서 단 한 번의 편집도 하지 않았거나 삭제 토론에 참여하지 않았다.차단은 확실히 새로운 사용자들이 같은 행동을 계속하는 결과를 낳을 뿐이지만, 선택의 여지가 없을 것이다. --OpenFuture (대화) 11:13, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
스피디한 삭제 위키에 대한 기사 버전과 9번째 원 체인즈(밴드)에 대한 기사를 간신히 볼 수 있었다.도움이 되는 인포박스에 따르면, 그들은 모두 기본적으로 같은 (아마도 가공의) 밴드인데, 많은 AKA들이 있고, 그들의 행동을 한데 모을 수 없다.말하자면반복되는 캐릭터 캐스팅은 케인 스타일즈, 달린 모스톨스, 마크 니머다.[1]을 참조하십시오.이 사람이 얼마나 많은 시간을 허비했는가.이제 그들을 재현하려는 다른 모든 계정을 정지시키고 차단해야 할 때다.Voceditenore (대화) 11:38, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

미안

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

그러나 이를 위해서는 관리자의 빠른 조치가 필요하다.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_girls_in_mahipalpur

사용자를 차단하십시오.

사용자가 페이지를 삭제한 경우:렉토나르.어떤 사용자? 2016년 4월 5일 13시 12분(UTC)[응답]
나. 렉토나르 (대화) 13:13, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ (고마워! -이름 넣으렴.어떤 사용자가 IP를 차단하길 원하는지...묻기도 그렇고 말기도 그렇고! 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC) 13Imperatrix Mundi:18, 5 (응답)

페이지를 만든 사용자를 차단하겠다는 뜻이었다.ㅋㅋㅋ

게시물에 서명하십시오.이 페이지까지 올 수 있을 만큼은 알고 있지만, 코멘트 끝에 4틸드를 넣지 않는 것은 알고 있는가?SQLQuery me! 13:41, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나 또한 나쁜 무명 사용자를 차단한다.렉토나르 (대화) 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC) 13:53[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IsInTown 보안관은 누구인가?

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 사용자는 2015년 9월에 활동하기 시작했다.그는 바잔, 코스메틱엠퍼러, 나이트워리어25를 상대로 성공적인 SPI를 신고하고 있다.그의 정확성은 그가 이전에 그들과 교류한 적이 있다는 것을 보여주지만, 보안관 IsInTown은 아니었다.--2A01:B840:111:D8:C73D:6517:F2C1:A197 (대화) 16:33, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

명확한 역량 문제

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 99.195.70.4는 막혔던 것에서 정확히 같은 일을 하는 것으로 돌아왔다.완전히 공공 기물 파손은 아닐지 몰라도, 이것들은 생산적인 편집은 아니다.에이크코렐 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 14:24 (답변)

누군가의 아이는 그들이 가장 좋아하는 만화의 기사를 편집할 수 있다는 것을 깨달았다.티모시조셉우드 (토크) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 14:31 (응답)
이제 말해봐 -!!!Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 14:37, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[답글]
1주일간 차단--Ymblanter (대화) 14:36, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

블록 필요

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

누군가가 45.48.150.202 - 인종 차별주의 인신공격, 이스라엘/팔레스타인 지역의 POV 공공 기물 파손 등으로 차단할 수 있는가?기여도는 동일한 사용자가 장기간 사용 중인 IP를 나타내므로, 확장 블록이 적절해 보인다.오직 죽음에서만 의무종료 (대화) 08:17, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자 Mendaliv의 관리자 권한 취소

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자들의 끊임없는 손가락 흔들기와 반응의 도발과 관련하여, 그는 편집자의 권리에 해를 끼치고 다른 사람들을 선동하여 심각한 잘못된 행동에 대한 논의를 시작하기도 전에 그것을 중단시키고 있다.논의되고 있는 "문건"에 잘못된 출처, 표절, 저작권 위반이 포함되어 있을 때, 거기서 콘텐츠에 뿌리를 둔 문제를 논의하는 것이 전적으로 적절하지만, 그는 자신의 즐거움을 위해 지역사회를 계속해서 선동하고 조사한다.내부고발 입법에 대한 논의는 내부고발자가 멘달리브에게 그토록 가까운 손가락질 및 통렬한 비판에 대해 다른 사람들이 조사해야 할 필요성을 지적하는 '명백한 시위'가 아니라 단지 '합리적 의심'을 가질 것을 요구한다 겔러온서명되지 않은 논평(대화기여) 05:38, 6 2016년 4월 (UTC)[응답하라]

위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.
다음 사항에 주목하십시오.나는 이것이 위키피디아와 관련이 있다고 생각한다.Sockpuppet 조사/Force77.- —/Mendaliv//Δ's 09:28, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
여하튼 여기에 속하지 않는다.--ymblanter (대화) 10:38, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]

위키백과의 자발적 금지 및/또는 Linrx 차단

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

싱가포르 공화국 헌법 제14조(1985 개정판, 1999년 재인쇄)[1]

사용자가 제안:Linrx, 지난 몇 주 혹은 몇 달 동안 나는 싱가포르 커뮤니티 내에서 비공식적인 풀뿌리 지원의 문제로서 위키피디아에서 반활동적인 기고자로 활동해왔다.지난 몇 주 동안 내 위키백과 사용자 페이지의 최신 정보를 통해 나는 다소 성실한 연구와 자원봉사를 표명한 바 있는데, 그 중 대부분은 위키미디어 재단의 틀을 벗어나기도 한다.내가 알기로는 상업적 사이버 범죄율이 특히 2015년에[2] 싱가포르에서 증가하고 있는데, 이는 온라인 안전에[4] 대한 인식을 높이기 위한 커뮤니티의 노력이 계속되고[3] 있다.몇 시간 전에 업로드된 국가범죄예방위원회 공식 포스터의 예에는 이 항목에 묘사된 내용이 포함되어 있다.일반화된 불안장애와 다양한 우울증 증상으로 고통 받고 있다는 점을 감안할 때, 나의 봉사활동에 관한 한, 내 역할은 지역화된 것과 관련된 폐쇄적인 논쟁을 훨씬 덜 추구하기 보다는 이 자리를 떠나는 것으로 완성된다. User와 같은 싱가포르식 사용자:마젤람은 24시간도 채 되지 않아

또한 사용자:MagazeLam은 아마도 대학생과 함께 일하고 있을 것이다.레몽월942싱가포르 관련 스터브나 기사들을 정리하는데, 많은 위키피디아 사람들이 그 곳에 가서 그렇게 했기 때문에 괜찮다.그러나, 나는 개인적인[5] 경험의 문제로서 반대한다. 사용자:MagazeLam사용자:위 포스터와 함께 싱가포르 정부가 제안한 나 자신과 다른 사람들에 대한 단순한 경고나 잠재적인 훈계로서, 레몽월942의 버디 시스템 실천은 - 보이는 것처럼 건전하고 이전에 권고된 것처럼 - 을 실천하는 것이다.내가 언급한 두 명의 사용자 중 어느 누구도 만나지 못한 한 번도, 아마도 그들은 친밀하고 친밀하게 알고 있을 것이다, 그 두 사람은 어제 내가 응답한 동지들을 위해 집단적으로 간청했고, 단지 한 당사자로부터 폄하와 감정적인 메시지를 받았다.사용자: 센트럴 지역의 기사를 사재기하는 것에 대해 내가 의문을 제기했을 때 눈에 띄게 화가 난 메이지람.사용자는 기사를 공식적이든 싱가포르적이든 관계없이 관리자 없이 수개월 동안 이 페이지에 스팸과 같은 내용을 거의 일방적으로 수정했으며, 그녀의 의도에 대해 질문을 받았을 때 눈에 띄게 강력하고 적대적인 반응을 보였다.이 사건은 WP:COI는 매우 단순한 이유로 분쟁 사건 대신 내가 살고 일하는 장소에 대한 페이지를 내 의견 일치를 구하지 않고 일방적으로 편집하고 있다.사용자가 내가 유료 WP를 언급했다고 가정하는 동안:이에 따라 COI 편집은[6] 강하게 반응하며, 이는 그의 이기적 편집이 WP보다 더 많이 관련되어 있다는 사실이었다.BLP는 매일 100만명에 가까운 사람들이 거주하고 일하는 지리적 지역이다.사용자(즉,사용자:MageLam은 이어서 질문을 받았을 때 괴롭힘에 대한 주장을 펼쳤는데, 그녀가 아직 증거를 가지고 정당화하지 못했다.

요약하자면, 이 두 사람은 위키피디아 페이지를 편집하고 있는데, 내가 그들의 편집 내용을 조사할 때 이 시점에서 괜찮다. 하지만 그들은 싱가포르 자원봉사자들에게 위키피디아 지리 공동체를 되살리는 것을 도와달라고 요청하고 있다. 즉, 그들은 다른 한편으로 그들은 망치고, 단지 저자세일 뿐인 공동체를 고치려고 애쓰고 있다.그들은 위키피디아 가이드라인을 자기진술 방식으로 사용하고 있는데, 이것은 내가 최근 몇 주 동안[7] 싱가포르에서 일어나고 있는 Sedition Act (싱가포르)와 관련된 범죄 혐의에 대해 위키피디아인으로서의 그들의 의도와 자격 증명을 의심하게 만든다.그들이 WP에 주어진 욕설로 나를 학대하는 것은 정당하지만, 유의해야 한다.FREE, Amos Yee의 경우와 같이, 그들이 그 섬에서 살고 있거나, 학교에서 공부하거나 일하는 싱가포르인일 경우, 나는 자신과 많은 다른 사람들에게 이익이 되도록 그들의 계정을 차단하고 금지할 것을 요청할 권리를 유지하거나 유보한다.

그러나, 나 자신의 신변 안전, 특히 인신공격으로부터 기권하고 특정 당사자로부터 온 것으로 간주되는 괴롭히는 논평에서 웰빙 캔디 건강.사용자:MageLam은 내 토크 페이지나 그 또는 그녀의 계정 중 하나에서 사용자와의 상호작용을 불가능하게 하는 것에 대한 나의 자발적인 금지와 자신의 계정을 차단하는 것을 고려해 주길 바란다.Linrx (대화) 04:10, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

  1. ^ "Internet love scams and cyber extortions up 7.4 per cent in 2014". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  2. ^ Lim, Yi Han. "Spike in online scams but overall crime rate still low". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  3. ^ "More crimes reported in first half of 2015, large rise in commercial crimes". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  4. ^ "Scam Alert Singapore". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  5. ^ "17-year-old girl found dead at foot of HDB block in Yishun". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  6. ^ "Sedition Act". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
  7. ^ "TRS sedition trial: Ai Takagi convicted of 4 charges of sedition". Retrieved 6 April 2016.
@Linrx: 무슨 말을 하려는 건지 잘 모르겠어.나는 당신이 이 주장에 이의를 제기한 것을 이해한다.싱가포르의 센트럴 에어리어(Central Area)는 '싱가포르의 도시'(Singapore City) 또는 '싱가포르의 도시'(Singapore City)라고도 불린다.는 토크에서 도와주려고 노력했다.Central_Area,_Singapore#Singapore_City와 나는 MagazeLam에게 청구에 대한 인용구를 추가해 달라고 요청했다.물론 인용문이 나오지 않으면 기사에서 삭제된다.하지만 편집 전쟁이 일어나기 싫어서 마젤람이 소스를 찾을 때까지 잠시 기다리는 게 더 좋았어. --Lemongirl942 (대화) 04:37, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@Lemongirl942: 당신이 마젤람과 함께 등록된 사용자로서 싱가포르 공화국위키미디어 재단을 대표한다고 자부하는 것을 볼 때, 기사를 유지하려는 당신의 노력은 나와 당신의 토크 페이지를 방문한 다른 기고자들에 의해 주목을 받고 인정받았다.이 섬에는 수천 명의 학생들이 그들만의 활동을 하고 있기 때문에 학생 신분에 대한 당신의 주장을 증명하는 것은 내 관할권 밖이다.그러나, 여러분과 여러분의 동료가 편집하기로 선택한 많은 기사들 중에서, 여러분의 연구 초점은 이웃과 지역들을 포함한다는 사실, 즉 많은 사람들에게 매우 좋은 의미일 수 있다. 하지만 눈에 띄게 무시되는 것은 컴퓨터 시스템의 바로 그 설계 구조다.위키피디아는 501(c) Wikimedia의 오픈 콘텐츠 포털로, IP 주소를 가진 사용자가 계정 없이도 자유롭게 편집할 수 있다.만약 당신이 다른 한편으로는 자원 봉사자를 모집하는 싱가포르의 주둔지를 건설하려고 한다면, 당신의 동료는.MagazeLam은 어떤 기고자들의 편집에 불쾌감을 느끼고, 당신은 동료 MagazeLam을 제외하고는 당신이 싱가포르를 대표하고 있다는 것을 명심해야 한다. 그렇지 않으면, 당신 자신을 하나로 식별하는 것을 삼가라, 당신은 로그인하지 않고 당신의 IP 주소를 사용할 수도 있다.인터넷 커뮤니티에서 사람들을 부르는 것 또는 심지어 당신의 동료들의 이름을 '미친'과 같이 부르는 것은 우리가 자라나는 일반적인 습관이다. 하지만 만약 당신이 싱가포르인이라는 국제 플랫폼에서 그것을 한다면, 당신이나 당신의 동료는 나를 자기 검열을 포함한 인터넷 에티켓의 징계적인 측면으로 끌고 간다.Linrx (대화) 04:52, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@Linrx: 나는 너를 어디에서도 "미친"이라고 부르지 않았다.나는 또한 마젤람에게 내가 상기시킨 대로 예의 바르게 행동하라고 상기시켰다([2] 참조). ([3] 참조)서로 인신공격에 나서기보다는 우리 모두가 협조하고 도와줬으면 좋겠다. --Lemongirl942 (대화) 05:03, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@Lemongirl942: 그래.내가 너의 표현된 욕망을 알아차렸듯이, 이것이 바로 내가 자격 있는 관리자나 이 직책의 조정권한에게 내 계정이 당신이나 마제람 둘 중 하나와 특별히 상호 작용하는 것을 차단하고 금지하도록 요청한 이유야. 또는 만약 실현 불가능하다고 생각되면, 그냥 내 전체 계정을 차단하거나 금지시키는 이유야.애초에, 아니 이 타이핑으로, 그것은 네가 타이핑을 할 수 없도록 하는 내 직업에 지나지 않는다.
그러나, 만약 당신이나 당신의 동료가 저장과 제출을 통해 타이핑하고 저지르는 것이 다른 것, 즉 말하자면 대화라고 알려진 것에 영향을 줄 수 있다면, 내가 알고 있는 것 또한 상기시켜줘, 당신의 동료가 단순히 당신의 다소 개인화된 대화 페이지나 다른 기사에서 과장되게 외치는 것을 취소하거나 잊어버리는 것만으로, 그것은 덜 중요한 문제라는 것을.중요한 인적 사항. 그러나 컴퓨터 및 엔지니어링 시스템에 대한 감사 추적의 명백한 기술적 설계 특징(즉, 그것들은 모두 기록되어 있다).첫 번째 상호작용 이후 한 번의 완전한 동그라미가 내게 왔지. 왜냐하면 나는 당신과 당신의 동료 마젤람 둘 다 아마도 매우 선한 의지를 가졌지만, 기사를 관리하고 기고하는 기술적 노하우는 부족하다고 느꼈기 때문이지. 왜냐하면 두 가지 선의 가정 모두 주말 동안 교회나 수도원에서 발견되어야 하기 때문이지.인터넷 커뮤니티 대신.Linrx (대화) 05:19, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]


Linrx는 무기한 차단된 사용자(SPI)의 명백한 환생으로 보인다.차단하고 닫으십시오. 이 텍스트 벽이면 충분합니다.짐렌지(토크) 05:51, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그리고, 나는 그렇게 그들을 막았다.SQLQuery me! 12:41, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

'구이'가 아닌 EGS 기사를 훑어볼 수 있는 관리자가 따로 있을까.

나는 유럽 대학원의 기사에 관한 "Guy" 또는 "JzG"의 조치를 보고하고 싶다.그는 학교를 좋아하지 않기 때문에 필요한 편집이나 기사 변경을 할 것 같지 않다.그는 나를 가로막고 (이번에는 아무런 성공도 없이) 나를 금지시키려 했다.나는 인생에서 다른 것을 하기를 좋아하기 때문에 그와 전쟁을 일으키고 싶지 않다.그러나, 나는 EGS 인증, 최근의 몰타 인가에 대해 몇 가지 논쟁을 제기하려고 노력했다. 미국 출처가 구식이고 공식적이지 않다는 사실(내 기여가 토크 페이지에서 lengy라고 해도, 나는 EGS 인가를 참고하여 무언가 다른 것을 설명하는 공식 미시간, 메인 및 텍사스 웹사이트 링크를 언급하고 있다.ation). 한 예비 학생이 토크 페이지에 글을 썼고, "guy"는 그 주제가 "이미 죽을 때까지 논의되었다"고 대답했다.다른 관리자들이 Rfc(@Softlavender,@Vanjagenije,@Damotclese)에 쓴 것에 주목한다.내가 논쟁을 제기하려고 할 때마다, "구이"가 최종 결정권을 가지고 있다.그는 또한 내가 Egs 기사를 화이트워싱하러 왔으며, 나는 WP라고 대답하였다.SYN (그래서 그에 따르면 나는 더 이상 대화 페이지에 글을 쓰지 말아야 한다.다시 말해서, 그는 오직 장기 편집자들만이 그들의 주장을 제기할 수 있고, 내가 EGS가 인가되었다는 것을 쓰기 전에 어느 정도 기다려야 한다고 믿고 있다), 그리고 나서 나는 바보, 즉 미트푸페리였다.결론적으로, 그가 그 기사에 대한 집행자/판사/최종 발언자 역할을 하는 한, 토크 페이지에 대한 나의 기여는 전혀 가치가 없을 것이다.제 질문:'구이'가 아닌 기사를 훑어볼 수 있는 관리자가 따로 있을까.클라우디오알프 (대화) 2016년 3월 25일 19:30 (UTC)[응답]

WP 이외의 다른 내용을 볼 수 있는 편집자가 있는가?SPA Claudioalv?누가 몰타에서 일부 과정의 인가를 나열하는 것과 같은 새로운 통합에 관여할 것을 계속 요구하고 이에 근거하여 모든 인가에 관한 출처는 "잘못된 것"으로 제거되거나 실제로 연결된 WP:일차 출처에는 다른 곳에서 인가된 학위를 받아야 할 의무를 보여주는 것이 전혀 없다.그리고 왜 스위스에 본부를 둔 학교는 학위를 사기라고 나열한 미국 주 내의 많은 마을들의 인구보다 더 많은 나라에서 인가자를 찾을 수 있을까?
이 사용자가 한 모든 일은 이 기사와 WP:포룸샵은 요구가 충분히 자주 반복되면 답이 바뀌길 바라는 마음에서 끝없이 이어진다.가이(도움말!) 2016년 3월 25일 19:34 (UTC)[응답]
콘텐츠 분쟁.이는 압축된 형태의 WP에 지나지 않는다.다른 부모. 행정부의 절반은 이미 WP:이에 관여(자신의 토크 페이지 참조), 그리고 확실히 그것으로 충분하다. 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이것이 매우 궁금하다고 생각한다.왜 이 기사는 미국 2개 주에서 대학원의 인가 부족에 대한 전체 섹션을 가져야 하는가?이제 기사들이 미국의 기준에 부합하는지에 대한 부분을 포함해야 하는가?확실히 미국의 비슷한 조직들에 의해 인가되지 않은 다른 조직들이 있다. 예를 들어, 몇몇 동물 사육 기관들은 서로를 인식하지 못할 것이다. 그래서 우리가 영국 (상상적인 예) Hereford Bull Society는 미국 Hereford Bull So에 의해 인가되지 않았다고 말하는 기사를 다시 써야 한다.ciety? 닥터 Chrissy 20:33, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답하라]

@Claudioalv:왜 내 게시물을 지웠니?닥터크리시 21:15, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]

[@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi:] '구이'가 행정부의 절반보다 더 많은 권력을 가지고 있는 것은 분명하다.내가 논쟁을 제기할 때마다 그 대답은 아무런 이유도 없이 "아니오"이다.그가 대법원장/집행관/최종 발언권을 행사하고 있다는 것을 토크 페이지에서 보는 데 더 이상 시간이 걸리지 않아야 한다.그의 행동이 무모하고 편파적이어서 충분하지 않다.는 단지 편집자가 마음에 들지 않을 뿐이다.SPA)는 논쟁을 제기한다(미국 출처는 구시대적이며 검증하기 쉽다).나는 미국 출처를 검증하고 업데이트해 달라는 것이었는데 그 결과 내가 차단당했고 그는 나를 금지시키려 했다.이것은 언론의 자유가 개입되어 있기 때문에 심각한 문제다.아무 이유 없이 누군가를 막고 그를 금지하려고 하는 것은 다른 관리자들에게 허용되어서는 안 된다.나는 현재 내가 제공한 기여로 기사를 편집해 달라는 것이 아니다(쉽게 볼 수 있듯이 rfc에 의견 일치가 있더라도), 편견이 없는 다른 사람이 기사를 훑어볼 수 있도록 부탁하는 것뿐이다.시간 내줘서 고마워클라우디오알프 (대화)20:44, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
사람 말 들려?이제 그들의 힘을 얻기 위해 나머지를 단 한 번의 전투에서 죽여야 한다.하나밖에 있을 수 없다.에버그린피르 (토크) {{re} 20:47, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[답글]
그래, 나머지는 이런 하기엔 너무 늙었어! 2016년Imperatrix Mundi 3월 25일 (UTC) 21:2016 (UTC)[답글]

흠, 아마도 이 문제는 이 장소를 통해 해결될 수 있을 것이다.위키백과:삭제 조항/유럽대학원(3차 지명) 샌드스타인 21:03, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]

닥터크리시는 당신의 게시물을 삭제하지 않았다.클라우디오알프 (대화) 2016년 3월 25일 21:19 (UTC)[응답]
이 차이점을 확인하십시오.[4] 닥터크리시 21:27, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
닥터크리시는 사과한다.일부러 한 게 아니라, 네가 쓰는 시간에 내가 쓰고 있었던 것 같아.다시 한번 미안하다.클라우디오알프 (대화) 2016년 3월 25일 21:45 (UTC)[응답]
사과 수락 - 고마워.게시물이 꽤 가까웠기 때문에 편집 충돌이었을 수도 있다.닥터크리시 22:04, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)[응답]
닥터크리시.게다가 나는 실수로 삭제한 너의 글에 동의한다.게다가, 그 기사에서 언급된 주들은 EGS 학위와는 다른 무언가가 사기성이 있다고 말한다.텍사스는 현재 EGS를 리스트에 포함시키는 것을 검토하고 있다(최근 몰타 인가는 그들의 기록에 없었다), 메인주와 미시간주는 더 이상 어떤 학위 밀 리스트도 발표하지 않는다.이것은 정말 검증하기 쉽다.그러나 최종 발언권이 지금까지 '구이'의 판단이기 때문에 이 주장을 토크 페이지에서 언급할 수 없었고, 만약 당신이 그와 의견이 다르다면 그는 먼저 당신을 차단하고 나서 금지하려고 할 것이기 때문이다.현실 세계에 온 것을 환영한다.클라우디오알프 (대화) 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC) 22:00[응답]
음, 내부 정보.따라서 이 회사는 당신이 독립적이지 않다는 것을 나타낸다.WP:COI는 많이?가이 (도움말!) 2016년 3월 26일 00:14 (UTC)[응답]
그냥 네가 읽기를 거부했던 공식 링크를 인용하는 거야당신은 이 정보를 알고 있지만 신경쓰지 않는다.누구나 1, 2, 3. Claudioalv (대화) 00:35, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]을 클릭하여 확인할 수 있다.
  • 여기서 내가 걱정하는 것은 JzG가 이 토론에서 편집자와 관리자 역할을 동시에 하고 있다는 것이다.이 시점에서 그는 그 기사를 혹사해서는 안 된다. 그는 분명히 이 경주에 논설가가 있다.호빗 (토크) 01:25, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 기사를 행정 능력 이외에는 편집한 적이 없다고 생각한다.단순히 SPA와 장기간에 걸쳐 관여한다고 해서 관여하는 것이 아니다.가이(도움말!) 2016년 3월 26일 13시 20분 (UTC)[응답]
나는 여기서 편집을 "행정"이라고 표현하지 않을 것이다.이것은 기사가 오랫동안 보호되어 있는 동안 관리자만 편집할 수 있는 큰 삭제 작업이다.당신은 또한 요약 편집에서 당신이 되돌린 추가는 합의에 반하여 이루어졌다고 말했다. - 그것은 내가 Talk 페이지를 읽은 것이 아니다.나는 또한 당신이 되돌린 편집을 만든 관리자가 User:Claudioalv 그리고 당신의 양말퍼피에 대한 비난에 반박했다.닥터크리시 14:18, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여기서 내가 우려하는 것은 클라우디오알프가 COI를 반폐쇄했다는 것이다; 그는 여기서 EGS와의 연계에 대해 직접 질문을 받았고 질문에 대답하지 않는 긴 대답을 했다.여기서 다시 질문을 받았는데, 답변에서 그들은 "개인적으로는 EGS를 잘 모르지만 누군가 나에게 문제를 해결해 달라고 한 것"이라고만 답했다.이것은 명확한 대답이 아니다.토크페이지에서 다시 한 번 물어봤는데, 거기서 대답하는 대신 이리로 와서 드라마를 계속하는 쪽을 택했다.
내가 보기에 클라우디오알프는 EGS의 직원이나 계약자로서 이 기사에 대한 그들의 작업에 대해 보수를 받고 있을 것 같다.내가 보기에 특히 직접적인 질문에 대한 답변을 거부하는 그들의 입장에 비추어 볼 때, 클라우디오알프는 그들이 그들의 토크 페이지에 COI를 명확하게 공개할 때까지 차단되어야 한다.Arbcom조차 이러한 기본적인 문제를 직접적으로 다루지 않았다.Jytdog (토크) 02:31, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
Jytdog. 나는 너의 질문에 대답했어.만약 당신이 나를 금지하는 것이 옳은 일이라고 생각한다면, 계속 진행하라.그러나 적어도 내가 정부 공식 웹사이트(말타, 미시간, 메인, 텍사스)에서 지원하는 헛소리나 기고문을 작성했는지 확인해 보십시오.고마워요.클라우디오알프 (대화) 05:37, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 유일한 진짜 질문은 왜 우리가 이 기사와 같은 구식 일을 계속 겪는지, 그리고 왜 SPA와 COI 편집자들이 그 기사에 접근할 수 있도록 계속 허용하는지 입니다.나는 장기적인 반보호와 몇 가지 변명의 블록을 제안한다.BMK (대화) 03:59, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 BMK 당신은 나의 기여와 내가 제공한 출처를 보길 거부했기 때문에 "Guy"처럼 나에게 편견을 가지고 있다.COI 사용자는 쓰기가 허용되지 않는가?만약 어떤 기사가 오해의 소지가 있거나 부정확하다고 판단되면, 나는 나의 기여를 게시함으로써 토론에 참여한다.왜 하면 안 되지?나는 관리자가 나의 차단 해제 요청을 처음 수락했을 때 내 신분을 밝혔다.'귀'만이 기사를 편집하고 무료 백과사전을 만들 수 있다는 말인가?위키미디어 재단의 법률 고문들은 그가 최종 결정권은 아니지만, 현 시점에서 아마 틀렸을 것이라고 말했다.클라우디오알프 (대화) 05:37, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 우스꽝스럽게 생각하는 것은 내가 논쟁을 제기하려고 할 때마다 불신자와 편집자들이 나를 WP처럼 정의하기를 선호한다는 것이다.SYN, sockpuppetry, mitpupetry, mitpetry, mutuelse, executed school and now coI, 대신 미시건 주는 EGS가 학위를 수여한다는 것을 명시하지 않고, 메인 주는 현재 No-accredited School의 어떤 공식적인 목록을 발표하지 않고 있으며, 텍사스는 EGS는 EGS 상태를 검토하고 있으며, 한 E.U. Country의 정부 기관이 합법적인 인가를 승인했다.비록 작은 나라일지라도, 여전히 EU의 일부분이고 유럽연합의 일부분이다.)그러나, 현재의 기사는 정반대로, 즉 학교는 인가되지 않았으며, 미국에서는 특별히 그 학교가 학위 제분소 목록에 포함되어 있다고 명시하고 있다(구식적인 연계에 의존하는 내용).클라우디오알프 (대화) 05:52, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 그래, 그래, 온 세상이 네게 반대야. 그리고 네가 Jytdog가 요구하는 정보를 제공하지 않으면, 공개적으로 그렇게 될 거야.유료 편집은 불허하지 않지만, 공개 선언해야 한다(WP: 참조).TUE), 그리고 우리는 이해관계 편집자들이 참여할 수 있는 방법을 규제한다(WP:COI 참조).EGS와 관련해 명확한 신분공개를 하지 않는 한 기존 SPA들이 받았던 것과 같은 대우를 받게 된다.당신이 한 명의 관리자로 하여금 당신을 차단하도록 설득할 수 있었다는 것(그가 하지 말았어야 했지만, 다리 밑의 물이었습니다)은 무관하다는 것, 여기서 당신은 전체 위키백과 커뮤니티를 다루고 있으며, 우리는 백과사전을 중립적으로 유지하고 홍보 목적으로 어떤 외부 단체에도 넘겨받지 않도록 하는 데 열의를 갖고 있다.(WP:PROMO. BMK (토크) 21:20, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
클라우디오알프 이전에 말했듯이, COI 공개 작업을 완료하고 여기서 전투를 중지할 것을 강력히 촉구한다.당신은 이런 식으로 밀고 들어갈수록 아주 깊은 구멍을 파고 있다.너는 당연히 네가 하고 싶은 대로 할 것이다.Jytdog (대화) 2016년 3월 26일 10시 13분 (UTC)[응답]
  • 우리는 사람들이 그것을 방해한다고 해서 이 겉으로 보기에 아주 잘 알려진 기사가 삭제되기를 정말로 원하는가?그렇게 하면 우리가 얻는 게 있을까, 아니면 위키피디아를 방해하는 사람들이 이기는 걸까?대신에 이것은 반보호적이고 이미 잊어버릴 수 있을까?LjL (대화) 23:07, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

블록 연대표

블록타임라인 여기 문제의 상당 부분은 JzG의 클라우디오알프 블록에 초점을 맞춘 것 같다.나는 아래에 관련 편집의 타임라인을 준비했다.

  • (22:48, 2월 9일) Claudioalv의 두 번째 기여는 다시 토크에:유럽 대학원 페이지 여기.[7]
  • (00:20, 2월 10일) JzG는 클라우디오알프를 여기서 회생시킨다[8].다른 사용자의 게시물을 대화 페이지에 되돌리는 것 자체가 실행 가능하다.
  • (00:20, 2월 10일) Jzg는 Claudioalv를 무기한 차단하여 편집 요약을 남긴다.클라우디오알프의 블록 로그에 따르면 "(다중 계정 사용)"
  • (16:16, 2월 10일) 클라우디오알프가 자신의 토크 페이지에 처음으로 기여한 것은 여기서 블록을 해제해 달라는 것이었다.
  • (23:48, 2월 16일) Jzg가 Claudioalv의 Talk 페이지에 최초로 기고[10]했다.
즉, JZG가 클라우디오알프와 어떤 문제에 대해 논의한 증거를 차단하기 전에 찾을 수 없다는 것이다.클라우디오알프는 블록의 가능성에 대해 경고를 받은 적이 없고, 실제로 블록에 대해 통보받은 적도 없는 것으로 보인다.닥터크리시(talk) 2016년 3월 26일(UTC) 18:44[응답]
막히기 전에 경고를 받을 필요가 없다.아직 배울 게 많구나.BMK (토크) 21:02, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 다른 게시물을 잘못 전달하는 것에 대해 배울 것이 많은 것은 너야.다시 읽어봐.요건이 어디 있다고 했지?닥터크리시(talk) 21:15, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
오, 이제 와, 닥터크리시, 당신이 무엇이든 간에, 당신은 "복제"가 무엇을 의미하는지 이해하지 못한다고 나를 설득할 수 없어.제발 우리를 바보 취급하지 말아줘.BMK (대화) 21:22, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
그 암시는 오직 네 머릿속에 있을 뿐이다.경고 부족을 제기한 이유는 jzg가 새로운 사용자를 상대하고 있었기 때문이다.관리자가 편집 행동에 동의하지 않을 경우 발생할 수 있는 일에 대해 사용자에게 경고해야 한다는 것이 내게는 공평해 보인다.관리자가 문제를 먼저 논의하고 차단할 수 있다고 경고하지 않고 새 사용자를 차단하는 것이 적절하다고 심각하게 주장하는가?닥터크리시(talk) 21:31, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
사실, 내 머릿속에 있다면, 그것은 "추론"이 아니라 "추론"이 될 것이다. 하지만 그것은 그렇지 않다.BMK (대화) 21:38, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
제 질문에 대답해 주시죠.닥터크리시 21:42, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 타임라인은 바로 그 토크 페이지에 있다. 나는 가이씨가 차단하기 전에 대화를 잘 했을 것이라는 것에 동의한다.단, 사용자:닥터크리시, 당신이 가이와의 개인적인 문제를 이 실에 수출하고 있다고 생각하지 않을 수 없어. 그리고 나는 당신이 그러지 말아야 한다고 경고해야겠어.드레이미스 (토크) 21:34, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 전혀 개인적인 것이 없다.나는 아주 노련한 관리자가 단 두 번의 편집 끝에 새로운 편집자를 차단하는 것을 보고 충격을 받았다.나는 이것을 더 자세히 들여다보았고 블록에 대해 주어진 이유를 뒷받침할 만한 증거를 찾을 수 없었고, 그들의 행동에 대해 차단된 편집자와 분명히 아무런 논의도 없었다는 사실에 더욱 충격을 받았다.내 생각에 이것은 차단 도구의 오용이다.편집자가 자신의 블록에 대해 알리지 않았기 때문에 사용자의 토크 페이지에서는 타임라인이 명확하지 않다. 나는 타임라인을 명확히 하고 있으며, 또한 토크 페이지에 게시하는 사용자가 정당한 이유 없이 되돌아갔다는 것을 지적하고 있다.닥터크리시 21:53, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
이 줄기의 주제와 전혀 관련이 없는 두 편집자 사이의 광범위한 다툼을 부추기는 것(이 줄에 서게 된 다른 한 사람의 동기에 의문을 제기하는 것 외에)BMK는 장기적인 행동 문제가 있다고 판단되면 다른 실을 열어 닥터크리시의 편집 패턴을 검토할 수 있지만, 이곳이 아니다.또한 두 기고가 모두 두 가지 직책을 깨달았어야 했기 때문에, 서로의 경험, 동기, 그리고 역사 봉쇄에 대한 이러한 광범위한 주장이 이 실의 문제를 해결하는 데 도움이 되는 것도 아니다.주제에서 벗어나지 마십시오.제설 21:06, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[답글]
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.
"충격" 내 고모 패니.알다시피, 닥터크리시, 위키피디아에서 편집한 내용을 보면 볼수록, 나는 당신이 혼란을 일으키기 위해 일부러 트롤링하고 있다는 결론에 도달하고 있어.나 또한 여기서 너의 경험 부족에 대해 궁금해지기 시작했어.나는 다른 편집자들에게 닥터크리시의 게시판 편집을 주의 깊게 지켜보라고 충고하고 싶다 - 아마도 그것은 이전 편집자를 연상시키는 누군가와, 심지어 Guy와 함께 골랐을 누군가와 화음을 낼지도 모른다. BMK (토크) 02:31, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
(E/C)@마이 켄을 넘어서 : 패니 대숙모에게 충격을 줘서 미안해.당신의 논평의 주제가 편집자가 아닌 내용으로 향하도록 해 주시겠습니까?이 질문에 직접 답하십시오.지금 나를 양말 퍼펫이나 미트 퍼펫이라고 비난하는 거야?만약 그렇지 않다면, 너는 그 마지막 코멘트를 해달라는 요청을 받는다.닥터크리시(talk) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 13:54 [응답]
아니, 공격할 건 없어.당신의 위키피디아나스페이스 편집에서 내가 점점 더 인상 깊어지는 은 당신이 일부러 문제를 일으키는 것처럼 보인다는 것이다. 마치 내가 당신의 행동에 대한 인상을 주는 것은 당신이 당신이 주장하는 것만큼 새로운 사람이 아닐 수도 있다는 것이다.인상들은 갑자기 나온 것이 아니라, 당신이 편집한 내용의 질과 내용에 기초하고 있으며, 그것은 지역사회가 주시하기를 바라는 어떤 가능성으로 이어진다.BMK (토크) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 14:14 [응답]
이 문제를 올바른 편집자와 논의하시겠습니까?나는 5년 전에 처음 편집한 것과 별개로 신참이라고 주장한 적이 없다.내 사용자 페이지에는 내가 5년 26일 동안 등록되어 있고 이 상자는 내가 기억하는 한 내 사용자 페이지에 있어.반복한다, 다른 편집자와 헷갈리는 겁니까?닥터크리시(talk) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 14:20 (응답)
아니, 닥터크리시, 매번 말썽을 부릴 때마다 이곳 안과 밖을 다 알 수 있을 만큼 오래 있지 않았기 때문에 여유를 구걸한다는 것은 잘 알고 있다.2011년에 등록되셨지만 2015년까지 편집 횟수가 상당히 적으셨다는 것도 알고 있다.[11] 2015년은 위키백과의 편집이 시작된 해라는 것도 알고 있다.[12] ("나는 신참이 아니다"와 "잠시만 기다려라, 나는 여기에 그렇게 오래 있지 않았다") 요컨대, 내가 누구를 말하는지, 나는 너의 편집, 그리고 의 방해에 대해 말하고 있는 것이다.그러한 사실들은, 열려 있는 질문들은 여러분이 의도적으로 파괴적인 행동을 하고 있는지 아닌지에 대한 것이고, 결국 지역사회가 그것에 대해 어떤 조치를 취하기에 적합하다고 보는지에 대한 것이다. (두 가지 주제 금지와는 달리, 내 말은, 대부분의 편집자들이 주제 금지되지 않고 생산적인 편집 생활을 모두 겪는다는 것을 알고 있는가?BMK (대화) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 15:27 [응답]
9번이나 사이트를 차단당한 편집자한테서 나온 꽤 부자군!나는 내 "편리함"에 대해 다른 것을 요구하겠지만, 그렇지 않을 것이다. 왜냐하면 그것들은 존재하지 않기 때문이다.시간이 지남에 따라 내가 편집한 빈도에 대해서는 - 나는 네가 무슨 요점을 말하려고 하는지 전혀 모르겠다.어쨌든, 이 모든 것이 실의 주제에서 벗어나고 있고 나는 독자들이 당신의 잘못된 비난에 완전히 질렸을 것이라고 확신해, 그래서 나는 마지막 말을 너에게 남길 거야.닥터크리시(talk) 16:01, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
DrC, 당신의 게시물에 있는 많은 부정확함을 묘사하는 것은 어렵다.나는 결코 "사이트 차단"된 적이 없다.나는 아주 짧은 시간 동안 경범죄에 해당하는 위키피디아 편집전쟁으로 차단되어 왔고, 블록이 끝나면 어떤 제한에도 구애받지 않고 자유롭게 편집을 계속할 수 있었다.내 블록 로그에서 가장 심각한 항목은 "다중 계정 남용"에 대한 것인데, 그것은 기본적으로 내가 아무에게도 알리지 않고 화면 이름을 변경할 때의 오해였다. 모든 것은 수년 동안 있었던토크 사용자 페이지의 "내 이력" 링크에서 설명된다. - 모든 것을 완전히 공개한다.나는 너처럼 어떤 면에서도 금지이 없어.
당신은 당신의 두 가지 주제 금지가 정말로 큰 거래라는 것을 이해하지 못하는 것 같다. 위키피디아는 상당히 중대한 중범죄에 해당한다.여러 주제 금지에서 다음 단계로 올라가는 것은 아마도 완전한 '사이트 금지'일 것이다. 이 금지조치가 해제될 때까지 위키피디아를 다시 편집하는 것을 무한정 금지조치가 해제될 때까지 위키백과 편집을 다시 금지할 것이다.주제 금지를 해제하는 것이 얼마나 어려운지 이미 보셨을 텐데, 사이트 미설치 금지되는 것이 얼마나 어려운지 상상해 보십시오.
당신이 원하지도 않고 듣지도 않으려 하는 나의 마지막 조언은 행동을 바로잡고, 당신이 불만을 가지고 있다고 믿는 관리들에게 문제를 일으키기 위해 게시판을 어지럽히는 것을 중지하고, 편집에 있어서 비주류적인 이론을 강요하는 것을 중지하고, 정책에 따라 엄격하게 편집하라는 것이다.만약 그렇게 한다면, 만약 그렇지 않다면, 이곳의 미래 역사가 다른 방향으로 갈 가능성이 있을 겁니다. 음, 아래에서 말했듯이, 당신은 지역사회가 당신의 허튼소리에 인내심을 잃는 소리를 듣고 있는 겁니다.BMK (토크) 00:29, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
DrC는 양말이 아닌 건 확실하지만...저 소리 들려?그것은 공동체의 인내심이 늘어져 있고 거의 한계에 다다랐다.알렉스브렌 (토크) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 13:50[응답]
그럴 수도 있지, 내가 전에 양말에 대해 틀렸던 적이 있지만, 내가 더 자주 옳았던 적이 있어.어쨌든, 나는 DrC가 시간이나 관심을 가질 가치가 없다고 결정했어. 요컨대, 그는 위키피디아의 비표준적인 의학과 과학에 대한 정책 범위 내에서 일할 수 없는 당신의 표준적인 변두리 옹호자야. 그리고 그러한 정책의 확고한 옹호자인 가이에게 책임을 지우는 것처럼 보여.DrC의 동기는 그의 방법처럼 완전히 투명하다.비록 어떤 사람들보다 더 파괴적이고 끈기 있게 행동하기는 하지만, 그의 타입은 이 근처에서는 거의 십이십보 백보니까, 자기 자신의 구멍(여기 있는 우리의 친구 클라우디오알프처럼)을 파는 데 꽤 능숙한 것 같으니까, 스스로 더 많은 제재에 나서도록 하는 것이 최선이다.BMK (토크) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 15:43[응답]
클라우디오알프는 차단된 사용자가 중단한 바로 그 지점에서 픽업했다.Checkuser는 이어서 Claudioalv가 Sockpuppet이 아니라 미트푸펫이라는 것을 보여주었다.또 다른 행정관은 선의로 행동하고 차단하지 않았다.지금 우리가 보고 있는 것처럼, 클라우디오알프는 예상대로 정확하게 해냈다. 즉, 까다로운 요구와 함께 자원 봉사자들의 시간을 낭비하고, 새로운 종합과 순환논쟁을 하는 것이다.
간단히 말해서, 의심스러운 양말들에 의해 토크 페이지 코멘트를 제거하는 것은 실행이 불가능하다.그것은 완벽하게 받아들여진다.
닥터크리시는 복수와 짜증나는 불평을 가지고 드라마 게시판에 계속 나오지 않는 것이 현명할 것이다.그것은 당신의 다른 두 가지 금지 사항과 어울리는 위키백과의 금지 공간으로 이어질 것 같다.가이(도움말!) 2016년 3월 26일 22시 15분 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 사실상 (여러 계정 사용)을 차단한 당신의 이유가 잘못됐다.닥터크리시(talk) 22:33, 2016년 3월 26일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 그렇지 않았다.그것은 WP였다.DOOK block for sockpuppetry, 사용자가 양말 꼭두각시가 아닌 미트푸펫인 것으로 밝혀졌지만, 우리는 두 가지를 구분하지 않는다.WP:SPA는 금지야, 또 다른 폭발이 일어나면 우리가 막아야 해.우리는 항상 그것을 한다.가이(도움말!) 06:37, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 토크 페이지 코멘트를 삭제하는 것이 완벽하게 받아들여지기 전에 단지 "sockpuppetry" 이상의 의문점이 있어야 한다고 말하고 싶다.LjL (대화) 01:09, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
의견이 다른 사람을 쿡쿡 찌르는 것이 재미있다는 것은 알지만, 우선 근본적인 문제를 간단히 살펴봐 줘.그렇게 되면 분명히 문제가 있는 사용자가 위키피디아가 션키 비즈니스 판매 학위가 인가를 가지고 있다는 생각을 홍보하기를 원하는 것처럼 보이는 것을 피할 수 있을 것이다(re shonky, 예를 들어 텍사스 주에서 학위를 사용하는 것이 불법인 기관의 이 목록 참조—목록에는 EGS가 포함되어 있다).많은 사람들이 매일 위키피디아의 내용을 홍보하려고 노력하는데, 이를 다루는 JzG/Guy와 같은 사람들은 감사와 지원을 받아야지, 일부 과거의 의견 불일치로부터 위와 같은 보복에 방해받지 말아야 한다.조누니크 (대화) 03:09, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 "미어 의심"이 아니었다.많은 WP가 있었다.그 기사에 SPA도 많이 나왔고, 양말풀이도 많이 나왔어.자기 이미지가 신뢰할 수 있는 독립적인 출처와 상충하는 과목에서 늘 그렇듯이, 그들은 현실 세계의 문제를 해결하기 위해 위키피디아를 사용하기를 원한다.그리고 늘 그렇듯이 문제는 그 사실들이 그들의 상업 활동을 저해한다는 것이다.물론 이것은 우리가 해결할 문제가 아니다.가이(도움말!) 06:40, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
우리가 동의하지 않았기 때문에 내가 너를 "포크"할 "재미있다"고 속단하지 말아줘.우리도 동의했다.나는 또한 여기서 근본적인 문제에 대해 특별히 신경 쓰지 않는다.나는 당신의 표현을 문제 삼는다: 아마도 "의심" 이상의 것이 있었을 것이다. 하지만 나는 "의심" 용어를 생각해내지 못했다. 나는 "의심스러운 양말들에 의한 토크 페이지 코멘트를 없애는 것은 전적으로 받아들일 수 있다"는 당신의 주장에 대해 반응하고 있었다.나는 그것이 일반적으로 정확하다고 생각하지 않는다.LjL (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC) 17:42, 응답
나한테 온 거야?나는 당신과의 어떤 분쟁도 기억하지 못하는데, 그것은 그것이 일어나지 않았다는 것을 의미하지는 않는다, 단지 일어날 수 있는 어떤 일이든지 현재 합리적인 사람들이 다를 수 있는 일의 소에 제기되어 있다는 것뿐이다.나는 우리 사이에 어떤 문제가 있는 역사에 대한 어떤 인상도 가지고 있지 않으며, 그것을 찾기 위해 링크를 발굴할 생각도 없다.가이(도움말!) 2016년 3월 29일 23시 32분 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각엔, 꽉 찬 토론에서, LjL은 Johnuniq의 직위를 당신 자신의 직위로 착각한 것 같아.제설let's rap 21:11, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
스노우 라이즈 말이 맞아, 내가 두 코멘트를 털어놨어.그러나 사실 JZG의 말처럼 그와 어떤 분쟁도 확인하거나 부정할 수는 없지만, 그것이 일어났는지 여부는 내가 여기에 올린 이유가 아니기 때문에 무관하다.LjL (대화) 21:47, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 여기에 성가시게 굴지 않는다는 것을 보여줄 수 있는 것을 덧붙이자면, Guy: 나는 얼마 전, Checkuser로부터, Sockpup용으로 차단된 사용자들의 사용자 페이지에 "suspected sockpoke" 태그(이 태그가 실제로 비관리자에 의해 사용될 것이라고 설명하는 문서가 있는 유형)를 붙이는 것이 실제로 내가 받아들일 수 있는 것으로 여겨지지 않는다는 것을 알게 되었다.하지만 반대로, 삭발파이로 의심되는 편집자들의 논평을 포괄적으로 삭제하는 것은 언제나 완벽하게 받아들여질 수 있는 것인가?나는 어떤 경우에는, 아마도 이것을 포함해서, 그것이 받아들여질 수 있다는 것을 알 수 있지만, 나는 단지 그 포괄적 진술에 동의하지 않는다.LjL (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC) 17:55 [응답]

외부 관점에서의 의견:좋아, 이 모든 것을 살펴본 후에, 도대체 왜 지역사회가 C급 기사에 그렇게 많은 시간을 소비하고 있는 거지?우리 모두 더 중요한 일이 있지 않은가?Guy와 Claudioalv가 그것을 하고 싶다면, jut이 그들을 허락해라.우리는 클라우디오알프가 결국 봉쇄될 것이라는 것을 이미 알고 있다.또, 도대체 이 기사는 왜?위에서 두 사람이 덤비고 있는 것 외에 누가 이것을 바라볼 것인가?뭔가 긍정적인 쪽으로 노력을 기울여야 하지 않을까?기억해, 난 아무 관계 없이 그냥 이걸 보고 있는 거야.TJH2018 토크 02:17, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 다른 것은 아무것도 할 필요가 없다.그 글은 보호받고 있다(삭제되지 않으면 상당 기간 보호받을 것이라고 생각한다).만약 그렇다면, 좋아.거기서부터, 개인들은 토크 페이지에서 편집 요청을 할 수 있다.Guy를 포함한 관리자라면 누구나 그 요청에 응할 수 있다.토크 페이지는 편집 요청이 인증에 대한 광범위한 언어라는 것을 보여주며 Guy는 이를 거부해 왔다.그것은 나에게 공평한 것이다. 왜냐하면 그 페이지는 심각한 논쟁 중에 있고 그 언어를 기사에 추가하는 것을 지지하기 위한 합의의 표시가 없기 때문이다.다음 단계는 WP를 추구하는 것이다.DRR 또는 그 이상 실제로 Guy나 관리자가 페이지에 텍스트를 포함시킬 수 있는 지원이 있는지 확인할 수 있도록 지원하는 지원을 제공할 수 없다.현재 몰타에 대한 RFC가 있고, 그것이 어떻게 진행되고 있다.여기서 진지하게 받아들여지고 싶다면, 물건을 원천으로 묶는 것에 기초한 복어의 변형을 500가지 요구하지 말고 우리가 여기서 무슨 일이 벌어지는지 보지 않기를 기대하라.몰타에 RFC가 있다면, 미시간 주를 꺼내지 말고, 당신이 얼마나 벗어날 수 있는지 시험하기 위해 계속 확대해봐라. 도움이 되지 않는다.가이가 여기 교직원 추가 거부를 한 것 같은 게 있다고 하면 괜찮지만 그런 건 보이지 않아. -- 리키81682 (토크) 02:35, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 업데이트를 제공하는 중.클라우디오알프와의 뒷바라지가 마무리되고 있고, 나는 당신이 다음 날이나 이틀 안에 우리 각자에게서 소식을 듣게 될 것을 기대한다.Jytdog (대화) 01:24, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

이것은 항상 힘든 균형잡기 행동이다.그래서 우리는 종종 행정적인 노력을 좌절시키는 특별한 시나리오를 가지고 있다.우리는 의심스러운 사업 관행을 가지고 있는 것으로 알려진 소규모 민간 기관에 대한 기사를 가지고 있는데, 그것은 아마도 여기서와 같은 학위 취득자일 수도 있고, 아마도 내가 마지막으로 ANI에서 이와 유사한 토론을 본 적이 있는 것처럼 약탈적인 출판업자가 될 수도 있다.이 기사는 그 기관의 이미지를 알리고, 그 이미지를 다듬고, 일반적으로 그 프로필을 올리기 위한 노력으로 시작되었다고 모든 인상을 주지만, 그 기사는 WP를 거의 만족시키지 못한다.GNG는 껍질째.이 기관과 직원들은 분명히 온라인 마케팅에 능통하고 그들과 씨름해야 하는 위키피디아 사람들에게 골칫거리를 줄 정도로 조직적이다.처음에는 최소한 어느 정도의 깊이와 투명성을 가지고 조사를 하지만, 어느 누구도 (COI 편집자가 아닌) 이 기사를 특정 날이라도 그들의 활동의 핵심으로 만들고 싶어하지 않기 때문에, 결국 새로운 회원이나 고집스러운 사람들이 이 기사를 "혐의에 대한 반대" (혹은 "혐의에 대한 저지") 상태로 전환된다.IP는 공모 집단의 일부라고 가정한다.

이에 대한 나 자신의 견해는 WP가 없는 한 다음과 같다.스테로이드에 대한 DOK 테스트(즉, 첫 번째 편집으로, 마지막 양말이 차단된 후 제거된 정확한 내용물을 복원했다. 그런 다음 WP:신뢰를 통제하고 우리의 행동에 구속력을 부여한다.COI 편집자는 대부분의 경우 필요에 따라, 그리고 대개는 꽤 빨리 자신을 드러낼 것이고, 우리는 이러한 상황에 정확히 맞는 SPI와 다른 유사한 도구를 가지고 있다.여기 LjL이나 다른 사람들과 마찬가지로, 나는 금지 망치가 한 관리자의 본능에만 근거하여, 적어도 관리자가 고려했던 증거에 대해 투명성이 없는 곳에서, 첫 번째 정거장이 되는 것에 대해 반대한다.문제의 복잡성이나 편견을 잡기 위한 우리의 노력에 대한 부담을 인정하지 않는 것이 아니라, 우리가 반사적으로 행동하기 시작하면 훨씬 더 복잡해질 수 있는 다른 공동체 원칙들이 여기 작용하고 있다고 생각한다.

자, 나는 위와 같은 모든 것에 자격을 부여하고 싶다. 나는 그 계획에서 이 상황이 정말로 어디에 해당하는지 모른다; 나는 이 경우에 가이에게 "가시적 차단"을 하는 것이 적절했는지 아닌지 말할 만큼 그 내용을 잘 알지 못한다.나는 단지 표준이 단지 의심될 수 없다는 말로 다른 사람들을 반추할 뿐이다; 사실의 검토는 관리자가 모호한 요약만을 가지고 두 번 편집된 계정을 차단하고, 문제의 관리자는 어떤 evi에 대해 더 상세하고 투명하게 함으로써 자신과 공동체를 많은 시간을 절약할 수 있다.Dence는 이 특별한 작용에서 또는/또는 의심스러운 양말을 WP의 아주 작은 부분만 줌으로써 고려되고 있다.상황을 더 명확하게 하기 위해 로프; 그들이 COI라면 분명히 받아들일 것이다.그렇지 않으면 관리자는, 심지어 지역사회에서 높은 지위에 있는 한 사람이라도, 새로운 사용자의 변명은 항상 공동체 원칙의 문제로서 깊은 조사를 받게 된다는 사실을 감수해야 할 것이다.이 상황에 대한 일반적인 나의 생각.22:01, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

확실히 사용자의 첫 번째 편집은 이전에 다른 WP가 제안했던 것과 동일한 내용을 토크에서 제안하는 것이었다.SPA. 그리고 실질적으로 그 기사에 관한 어떤 것이든 제안하는 모든 편집자는 WP이다.SPA는 해당 장소와 관련하여 확인된 문제에 대한 언급을 삭제할 것을 제안한다.그것은 오히려 의심을 불러 일으킨다.가이(도움말!) 22:10, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

경박한 COI 고발

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Jytdog는 콘텐츠 논쟁에서 우위를 점하기 위해 극소수학 관련 이해충돌을 했다고 경박하게 비난해 왔다.다음과 같은 사실이 있다.

  1. 나는 극저온증에 대해 어떠한 이해 상충도 가지고 있지 않다.
  2. 나와 사용자 사이에 콘텐츠 분쟁이 있음:Jytdog는 죽음에 대한 의학적인 정의의 페이지에 관한 것이다.나는 그 기사에 몇 가지 자료를 추가했고, Jytdog는 그 후에 되돌아갔다.
  3. Jytdog는 나의 토크 페이지에서 "내가 위에서 언급한 바와 같이, 당신의 현재까지 편집된 내용은 극저온학에 초점이 맞춰져 있다"고 말했다.이것은 명백히 거짓이다.내가 편집한 유일한 극저온 중심 기사는 정보-이론적 죽음의 기사다.
  4. 내가 그 기사를 편집한 것은 그것을 지우고, 그 내용을 죽음에 대한 의학적인 정의로 병합하고, 리디렉션을 추가하는 것이었다.Jytdog는 이 편집에 대해 나에게 고마워했다.
  5. 내가 위키피디아에서 극저온학에 대해 쓴 것은 "치료적 저체온증, 물의 빙점 이상의 온도에서 일어나는 잘 확립된 의료행위와는 달리 극저온학은 일반적으로 액체 질소(-196 °C/-321 °F)의 비등점에서 훨씬 낮은 곳에서 행해진다"(디프)는 단문장뿐이다.이 문장은 일반적으로 믿을 만한 출처로 여겨지는 내셔널 포스트에 출처되었다.내가 극저온학에 대해 COI가 있다고 생각할 만한 그럴듯한 이유는 없다.
  6. Jytdog는 한 토크 페이지 논평에서 내가 쓴 자료는 극저온 WP:과도한 중량" (diff).이것은 명백히 거짓이다.문제의 물질은 극저온학과는 아무런 관계가 없다.치료용 저체온증이나 표적온도 관리에 관한 것으로 미국심장학회 공식지침으로 보증된 대표적인 의료절차다.극저온학은 액체 질소 온도로 동결하는 것을 포함하며, 내가 알기로는 어느 의료기관에서도 보증되지 않는 추측성 시술이다.내가 편집하지 않은 임상적 죽음에 관한 기사는 내가 쓴 의학적 냉각과 소생 과학에 상당한 내용을 담고 있다.이는 이 연구가 주류 언론과 학계 소식통에서 광범위하게 보도된 내용을 반영하고 있다.
  7. 솔직히 나는 랜스 베커(내가 그에 관한 기사를 만들었다)와 샘 파르니아(Sam Parnia)의 의학연구에 대해 대단한 찬사를 보내고 있다.하지만, 나는 그 분야에서 일하지 않고, 그곳에서도 이해 상충이 없다.

나는 위키피디아에서 이해충돌이 문제며, 하나의 잘못된 COI 주장이 관리자 조치를 받을 자격이 없다는 것에 동의한다.그러나, 그들의 이력을 조금 들여다보면, 사용자:Jytdog는 이해충돌과 옹호 주장에 대해 엄청나게 많은 것을 해왔다.내가 집계한 바에 따르면, 지난 3일 동안에만 13명의 다른 사용자들에 대한 Jytdog의 COI/advocation 주장이 있었다.의견 불일치에 대한 반응은 즉시 "COI!"를 외치는 것이 되어서는 안 된다.특히 만약 COI(이 경우, 극저온학)라고 가정된 COI가 불화의 본질과 아무런 관계가 없다면 더욱 그렇다.내가 알기로는, 나와 Jytdog는 실제로 극저온증에 대해 전혀 동의하지 않는다; 그것은 명백히 추측이며 의료계나 주류 의료원에 의해 지지되지 않는다.NeatGrey (대화) 22:34, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 이것은 상당히 과민한 행동이다.나는 NeatGrey's talk 페이지에 두 개의 메시지를 남겼다.첫번째는 지지에 대한 쪽지였다.두 번째는 COI 가이드라인에 대한 공지사항이며, 또한 네이트그레이가 극저온학 회사나 단체에 어떤 콘테이트가 있었는지를 묻는 것이다.질문은 비난이 아니다.정중하게 묻는 질문에 대한 이런 반응은 전혀 부적절하다.나는 이것을 폐쇄하고 OP가 과잉반응을 한다고 선전할 것을 제안한다.Jytdog (대화) 22:41, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나는 동의하지 않는다.위 Jytdog가 남긴 "노트"의 표현은 다음과 같다.
"WP:NOT 및 WP:NPOV. WP:SOAPBOX는 (제약회사에서 일하는 경우) 어떤 약품도 홍보하기 위해 위키피디아를 사용하는 것은 괜찮지 않다. 일부 정치적 후보도 아니고 사이러닉스도 아니다."
이것은 명백한 고발이지 단순한 질문이 아니다 - Jytdog는 내가 명백한 사실이 아닌 극저온의 옹호자라고 주장하고 있으며, 관련 없는 내용 논쟁 때문에 그만두라고 경고하고 있다.NeatGrey (대화) 23:00, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
(부록)또한, Jytdog의 COI 노트가 일련의 질문으로 표현되었지만, 맥락상 그것은 명백한 비난이다.예를 들어 상점에서 라디오를 사고 있는데 누군가가 다가와 "저 비싼 라디오를 훔치십니까?"라고 묻는다면, 모두가 당신을 들치기라고 비난하고 있다는 것을 알고 있고, 그래서 물어보는 것이다.NeatGrey (대화) 23:21, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
옹호론과 COI는 서로 다른 개념이다. 그래서 그들은 당신의 토크 페이지에서 서로 다른 두 섹션에 있다.게다가, 기사 내용과 편집자 행동에 대한 논의는 별개여야 한다. 그래서 내가 당신의 토크 페이지에 그 문제들을 제기한 것이다.위키피디아에서 분쟁 해결의 기본을 이해하지 못해 유감이다.이 ANI 서류는 단지 엄청난 과잉반응일 뿐이다.Jytdog (대화) 23:17, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]
죽음에 대한 의료적 정의의 적절한 내용에 대한 논의는 내용상의 논쟁이지만, 내가 여기 있는 것은 그 때문이 아니다.나는 그 분쟁이 정상적인 콘텐츠 분쟁 해결 채널을 통해 해결될 수 있기를 바란다.사용자:Jytdog는 그 콘텐츠 분쟁을 통상적인 경로를 통해 해결하려 하지 않고, 명백히 경박한 이해충돌 주장을 함으로써, 관계없는 문제에 대한 사소한 의견 불일치에 지나지 않는 것처럼 보였다.그리고 로그를 보면 누구나 이것은 일회적인 사건이 아니라 오랜 패턴이라는 것을 알 수 있는데, Jytdog의 토크 페이지 댓글의 대다수가 이해충돌 주장으로 보인다.NeatGrey (대화) 23:29, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 NeatGrey가 이번 달에 막 그들의 계정을 시작한 새로운 편집자임을 알았다.나는 경험이 부족한 편집자가 COI에 대한 통지를 WP로 인식하는 것은 꽤 이해할 수 있다고 생각한다.그리고 그것이 Jytdog가 WP라고 부르는 이유라고는 할 수 없다.TROOD. Jytdog의 우려는 첫째, 죽음의 페이지에 있는 극저온학에 관한 내용이 WP와 일치하지 않을 수도 있다는 것이다.MEDRS, 그리고 둘째, COI의 가능성을 확인하는 것이 유용할 것이라는 것은 위키피디아가 작동하는 방식 안에 잘 들어 있다.페이지 내용에 대해서는 WP에 따라 보는 것이 유용할 것이다.BRD. 토크 페이지 통지에 대해서는, Jytdog가 고소로 의도된 것이 아님을 재확인하고, 다르게 이해된 점에 대해 사과하고, 그 다음에 우리 모두 나아가야 한다고 제안한다. --Tryptofish (대화) 23:55, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

고마워 트립토피쉬FWIW, 비록 이것은 새로운 계정이지만, 나는 몇 년 전에 대학에서 위키피디아를 편집하는데 시간을 보냈기 때문에, 완전히 새로운 것은 아니다.그렇지 않으면 나는 동의한다.NeatGrey (대화) 00:02, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아! --Tryptofish (토크) 00:24, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
"COI의 가능성을 확인하는 데 유용할 것" - 위키피디아가 WP를 앞지르는 방식은 아니다.GOADING. COI 편집에 대한 신뢰할 수 있는 우려가 있는 경우, 조사될 수 있다.그러나 우리는 새로운 계정이 다른 증거 없이 COI를 가지고 있다고 가정하지 않는다.게다가 사용자 토크 페이지에 템플릿을 남기는 것은 정말 비난이다.단순한 '알림'이 아니다.만약 내가 공공 기물 파손에 관한 당신의 강연 페이지에 '알림'을 남겼다면, 당신은 내가 공공 기물 파손에 대해 당신을 고발하고 있다고 올바르게 생각할 것이다.이해충돌이 있다고 믿을 이유가 없다면 템플릿을 남길 이유가 없다.--v/r - TP 02:05, 2016년 4월 6일(UTC)[응답]
여기 TP, 잘 말해!WP:BITE, WP:내 경험에 비추어 보면 GOADING, WP:VAMPIRE 등이 떠오른다.고맙고 안녕.공울(토크) 02:40, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자:타리스가 누군가에게 COI가 생기면 생성되는 관계를 공개하라고 요구하는 것은 OUTATI 위반에 가깝지도 않다.내가 실제로 쓴 글을 읽으면 내가 명시적으로 자신의 신분을 밝힐 필요가 없다고 말한 것을 볼 수 있을 것이다.우리는 INOGT에 의해 신원이 보호되고 있다고 명시적으로 말한 것을 볼 수 있다.우리는 신원은 신경쓰지 않는다.관계를 중시하다Jytdog (대화) 04:40, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그들이 COI와 밀접한 관계를 맺고 있다고 믿을 만한 이유가 있다면, 그 이유를 직무 담당자에게 개인적으로 공개하라.만약 그렇지 않다면, 그것을 물어볼 명분이 없다.다른 편집자의 개인 정보를 요구하는 것은 WP를 위반하는 것이다.GOADING. 편집자가 새 계정을 갖는 것은 충분한 정당성이 없다.COI와 마주치는 모든 새로운 편집자를 고발할 수는 없다.--v/r - TP 04:47, 2016년 4월 6일(UTC)[응답]

이봐, 사용자 TP, 뉴비에게 던지는 COI 함의 이상일 때가 종종 있어.WP:뱀파이어 WP:뉴비에게 물리는 것은 악랄할 수 있고, 때로는 이렇게 될 수 있으며, 모두 자신의 토크 페이지에 도배되어 있다.

1. WP의 Newbie에 의한 위반을 암시하는 자체 지정 COI 체커:COI, WP:유료 및/또는 WP:NPOV.
2. 그리고 나서 뉴비의 "공개"를 제안하는 자체 지명된 COI 체커는 뉴비에게 소름끼치게 분명하게 말했다: "나는 [당신의 강연] 페이지를 보고 있다."
3. WP의 Newbie에 의한 위반을 암시하는 자체 지정 COI 체커:SPA, WP:SOAPBOX 및/또는 WP:옹호.
4. 그렇다면 이 모든 WP가 다음과 같이 말한다.'COI 체커 에디터'의 마지막 수단이 무산된 '물팅'은 뉴비의 토크 페이지에 WP와 유사한 이유 없이 불쾌감을 주는 댓글을 남기고 있다.NPA.
5. 그리고 나서 그것에 대해 불평하거나 ANI에서 혹은 그들이 당신에게 그렇게 대담하게 말하는 것은 좋고 나쁜 형식이 아니라고 경고하는 곳이라면, 또는 대부분의 지역사회가 당신의 논평(또는 그런 취지의 말)을 기억할 것이기 때문에 당신은 참여하기를 겁먹게 된다.
- 위키피디아에 온 것을 환영한다, 라고 말할 수 있을 것이다.물론(상술한 시나리오를 아무에게도 첨부하는 것은 아니다.물론 가설:) 그러나 내가 무엇을 알겠는가?안녕. 공울(토크) 05:55, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
공울아, 네가 나한테 불만인 건 알겠는데 네가 여기에 더 많은 노력을 기울이려는 건...좋지 않습니다.나는 새로운 편집자들에게 그들의 페이지를 "관찰"하고 있다고 말하여 그들은 거기에 답장을 해도 괜찮다는 것을 안다.너는 이런 바보 같은 말들을 꺼내서 네 자신을 나쁘게 만들고 있어.일반적으로 ANI에서 원한을 품는 것은 나쁜 형식이다; 사람들은 이런 종류의 논평을 기억하고 미래에 당신이 하는 말을 할인하는 경향이 있다.그것은 새로운 실수지만 너에게 달라붙는 실수다.당신은 또한 지역사회에서 한편으로는 WP의 무결성을 찾고(즉 COI에 주의를 기울인다는 의미) 사생활에 절대적 가치를 두는 것에 대한 다양한 견해가 있다는 것을 알아야 한다/ 내용을 엄격하게 보는 것; TParis는 사물의 "엄격한 내용" 측면에 훨씬 더 가깝고, 나는 TParis에게만 대응했다.진지하게 생각하는 GOADING이야.대부분의 지역사회는 그 범위의 중간에 있다.Jytdog (대화) 06:26, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
무슨 말인지 잘 모르겠는데, 그냥 무시해 버릴 거야.그것은 매우 분명한 선이다. 사람들에게 자신을 밝히라고 요구하지 말라.만약 그들이 COI를 가지고 있다고 믿는다면, 그것을 다른 방법으로 증명하라.POV 편집으로 인해 의심스러운 경우, 해당 내용을 다루십시오.위키백과 밖에서 증명할 수 있는 것이 있다면, 그 기능사들을 사용하십시오.그러나 사람들에게 COI가 있는지 없는지를 단순히 그들의 편집 횟수에 근거하여 선언하라고 요구하지는 마십시오.그것이 부적절한 것이다.나도 공울이 이것에 대해 가지고 있는 냉정한 의견들을 공유하지만, 그것들은 덜 연속적이다.그렇게 간단해, 정말로.솔직히, 나는 어떻게 그 진술에 동의하지 않을 수 있는지 모르겠다.--v/r - TP 07:09, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 모든 것이 큰 오해처럼 보인다.NeatGrey, Jytdog는 WP에서 광범위하게 일하고 있다.코인(Conflict-Of-Boice Noticeboard), 그래서 아마도 당신은 그가 많은 사람들의 대화 페이지에 COI 질의를 게시하는 것을 보게 될 것이다.나는 너의 토크 페이지에 그의 (첫) 통지가 서면처럼 부적절했다는 것에 동의한다.나는 이 모든 것이 아마도 기사의 토크 페이지에서 해결되었어야 했다는 것에 동의한다.나는 개인적으로 COI에 대한 어떤 증거도 직접 보지 않는다. 너의 편집 이력을 훑어본 적이 있다.내가 보기엔 Jytdog가 방금 실수를 한 것 같아. 그리고 앞으로 더 천천히 조심할 필요가 있어.소프트라벤더 (대화) 07:57, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자에 의한 명백한 인신공격 및 모욕:말릭 샤바즈

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자가 보고한 내용:Malik Shabazz (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

MShabazz (토크 · 기여 · 삭제된 기여 · 로그 · 필터 로그 · 사용자 · 블록 로그)

말릭샤바즈는 자신의 사용자명 말릭샤바즈, MShabazz, ip주소를 이용해 나를 비롯한 다른 사용자들을 반복적으로 공격하고 괴롭히고 있는 것으로 보인다.사용자가 응답할 때 공격하지 않도록 주의하기 위해 ANI에서 여기에 대해 논의하는 것을 선호한다. (또한 2명의 관리자로부터 이 페이지를 내 우려에 사용하도록 권고받았다.)사용자를 "Shabazz"라고 한다.

  • 가장 최근에는 "Rv POV 푸싱"[13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21] - WP:위키하운드. 어떤 경우에는 샤바즈가 기사의 토크 페이지 토론[22]을 완전히 무시했다.샤바즈는 나의 편집 내용을 설명하는 나의 토크 페이지 코멘트를 무시했다[23] (특정 사용자가 여러 블록으로 편집한 일련의 문제 패턴을 수정하고 있다고 설명했다.)그러자 샤바즈는 나의 토크 페이지 [24][25]에 반복적인 비난과 경고를 쏟아내기 시작했다. 다시 한번, 어떠한 설명이나 증거도 없이 편집이나 NPOV = 인신공격 WP:NPA#WhatIS.
  • 샤바즈는 반복적으로 나의 읽기 능력을 놀려 위키백과 편집에 불편함을 느끼게 만들었고, 다른 많은 희생자들도 마찬가지라고 느꼈을 것이다.내 토크 페이지 첫 번째 글: "PS: 내가 왜 1년 전에 배너맨에게 헛간 스타를 주었는지 알아내는 데 30분이나 걸려서 미안해.나는 당신의 읽기 능력이 향상되기를 바란다."[26] 그리고 샤브바즈가 다시 한 나에 대해 썼다. "그녀가 그렇게 자주 하는 것처럼, Caseeart는 당황스러울 정도로 읽을 수 없는 무능함을 보여준다."[28].
  • 추가 스몰 노트 및 요청: 나보다 규칙을 훨씬 더 잘 알고 있는 숙련된 관리자가 샤바즈가 두 개의 계정에서 적극적으로 편집할 수 있도록 허용되고 있다고 말하고 있다(사용자:Malik Shabazz사용자:MShabazz)가 제대로 공개되는 한.나는 이것을 허용하는 규칙을 찾는데 어려움을 겪고 있다.내가 WP에서 보는 한:VALTALT는 다음 11개 범주 중 하나에 속해야 한다.보안, 개인 정보 보호, 유지 관리, 봇, 테스트 및 교육, 도플갱어 계정, 손상된 계정, 새 이름으로 클린 스타트, 유머 계정, 사용자 이름 위반 수정, 지정된 역할사용자:MShabazz는 이러한 범주에 속하지 않는다.Caseeart (대화) 13:39, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그가 도플갱어로 태그된 계정을 가지고 있다는 것이 혼란스러웠다고 생각한다 - 그러나 (도플갱어와 같은 문장에서) 명시된 용도는 그의 모바일에서 검색하기 위한 것이었다 - 그것은 WP의 '보안'에 해당될 것이다.VALTALT는 '모바일의 공용 네트워크에서 검색'을 의미한다고 가정하며, 이는 유효한 보안 문제가 될 것이다.이러한 맥락에서 도플갱어는 'clone'의 일반적인 용법/의미보다는 가장을 방지하기 위해 특별히 편집되지 않은 자리 표시자들이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무는 끝난다 (대화) 14:42, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그렇다면 그것은 그의 모바일의 공용 네트워크에서 브라우징하기 위한 것이라는 말인가?카제트 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15:41, 응답
아마도. 대체 계정은 보안되지 않은 네트워크에서 편집하는 편집자들에 의해 정기적으로 사용된다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 2016년 4월 6일(UTC) 15:46, 4월 6일(응답)
그것을 쓰지 않는다는 것(그리고 대신 도플갱어라고 썼다)을 빼면 말이다.또한 조사에 참여했던 IP는 공공 네트워크에 대한 증거를 보여주지 않는다.하지만 나는 그것이 가능하기 때문에 아무도 그를 막을 수 없을 것이라고 생각한다.Caseeart (대화) 16:02, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
솔직히 나는 가끔 이런 것을 본다.나는 그것이 정확히 정책 내에 있는지 확신할 수 없지만, 내가 이해한 것은, 계정 사이에 분명한 연결고리가 있는 한, 우리는 사람들을 괴롭히지 않고 이것을 하도록 내버려 두는 경향이 있다는 것이다.기본적으로 말릭이 이 일을 하는 것이 유용하다고 생각한다면, 그리고 그가 알트를 가지고 하는 일에 명확한 정책 위반이 없다면, 우리는 그가 평화롭게 그의 일을 하도록 해야 한다.다른 문제에 대한 의견 없음.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 16:37, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그 위에 있는 유일한 것은 그가 당신이 읽을 수 없는 것을 보여준다고 말했을 때인데, 그는 당신이 그에 대해 다소 약한 근거인 것 같은 것에 대해 양말 퍼펫 조사를 한 후에 그렇게 한다.나도 꽤 짜증이 날 것 같아. --OpenFuture (대화) 14:44, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 누군가가 그들이 적절한 지시를 읽지 않고 만들어진 것으로 인식할 수 있는 매우 유능한 조사라고 생각하는 것에 근거하여 여러분의 읽기 능력에 의문을 제기한다면, 그것은 어떤 식으로든 실행 가능한 것이 아니다.행정적으로 할 일이 없기 때문에 이 실을 닫기 위해 움직여라.존 카터 (토크) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15:13[응답]
조사하기 훨씬 전 - 샤바즈는 이미 "PS: 왜 그런지 알아내는데 30분이나 걸려서 미안해...독해 실력이 늘었으면 좋겠다"고 말했다.문제는 샤바즈가 멈추지 않는다는 것이다!카제트 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15:41, 응답
  • User:Caseeart, 누군가가 소싱된 콘텐츠의 가식적인 제거 작업을 되돌릴 때, 나는 "Rv POV 푸싱"이 합리적인 편집 요약이라고 생각한다.MS가 응답하지 않은 귀하의 토크 페이지 토론[32]에 링크된 예는 그다지 유용하지 않다. 이는 단지 분노에 찬 비난일 뿐 구체적인 내용은 없다.나는 의미 있게 대답하기 다소 힘들다고 말하고 싶다.비쇼넨은 15:17, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)을 이야기한다.[답답하다]
사용자:Bishonen I는 편집 요약에서 내가 편집한 이유를 설명했다.논쟁은 내가 편집한 내용이 맞는지 아닌지가 아니다.샤바즈는 왜 내 편집이 보증되지 않는다고 믿는지, 왜 내 편집이 POV인지 설명하지 못했다.내가 편집한 모든 것이 "소싱된 내용의 제거"는 아니었다. 일부 편집 내용은 사실 거짓 편집 요약을 사용하여 이전에 삭제된 내용 [33]을 추가했다[34].
내가 편집한 내용을 여러 기사에 걸쳐 되돌리고 - 겉보기에는 편집한 내용을 별로 읽어보지도 않은 채 - 그리고 왜 POV가 있었는지 설명조차 하지 않은 채 내 토크 페이지에 여러 개의 경고를 넣는 것이 정당화될 수 있는가?카제트 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15:41, 응답
Rv POV만 쓰는 것이 아니라 실제로 되돌릴 때 POV란 것을 쓰는 것이 도움이 될 것이다.조셉 경 16:34, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Caseeart, WP:부메랑WP:포룸샵, 그리고 나서 이 가짜 불평을 철회하는 것을 고려해보아라.당신은 지난 6개월 동안 불평에 고기가 없다는 말을 반복해서 들었다.분명히 넌 정말 읽을 줄 모르는구나.말릭 샤바즈 Stalk/ 15:26, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
벌써 그만해!!!내가 읽을 수 없다고 말하지 마!Caseeart (토크) 15:47, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
공평하게 말하면, Caseeart는 그들이 적어도 두 번은 읽을 수 없다는 것을 읽었고, 그들이 실제로 읽을 수 있다는 것을 강력히 시사했다.티모시조셉우드 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 16시 55분 (UTC)[응답하라]
케이시어트가 분명히 좌절했네, 지금 웃긴 관찰은 하지 마, 그냥 도발할 수도 있어. --QEDK (TC) 17:28, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

모든 토론에서 토론 자체가 자연스럽게 결말이 난 지점이 있다.당신은 토론에서 이겼을 수도 있고, 토론에서 졌을 수도 있고, 또는 무승부 상태에 있을 수도 있다.이때 지팡이를 떨어뜨리고 말 시체에서 천천히 뒤로 물러나야 한다.

당신은 말릭 샤바즈의 제재를 받기 위해 여러 가지 방법을 시도했지만 성공하지 못했다.이쯤에서 이슈를 접고 말릭과 교감하는 것을 피하고 보다 생산적인 편집 프로젝트로 넘어가는 것이 최선일 것이다.여기 있는 모든 편집자들은 잘 지내지 못하는 다른 개인들도 있다고 생각해. 그리고 그 편집자가 공공 기물 파손을 통해 적극적으로 피해를 주지 않는 한, 그냥 거리를 두고 상처받은 감정을 버리는 게 좋을 거야.내 말을 믿어, 우리들 중 많은 사람들은 "읽을 수 없다"는 말보다 훨씬 더 나쁜 말을 해 왔다.그것은 말이 많지만 보통 더 뾰족하고, 네 글자, 모욕적인 언어가 포함된 인신공격이라고 평가하지는 않는다.나는 내 방식대로 된 모욕(그리고 말릭이 그에게 더 많은 욕설을 퍼부었다)을 인용할 수도 있지만, 그 사건들은 뒤로 미루고 넘어가는 것이 최선이다.리즈 22:13, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

아마도 홍보 회사 FP1 전략에 속하는 계정일 것이다.

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

User:라는 계정으로 인해 문제가 발생한 경우:레즈비언미국 자본조성을 위한 협의회라는 기사에 POV를 밀고, 편집-전쟁하고, 저작권 위반 자료를 추가하는 것을 조언한다.다른 기사에 그녀와 비슷한 이야기를 나눈 User:1990sguy와 상의한 후, 나는 그녀가 왜 그렇게 많은 히트 작품을 쓰고 있는지 조사하기 시작했는데, 지난 몇 년간 그녀의 모든 기사가 디지털 홍보 회사 FP1 Strategies의 고객들과 일치하는 것처럼 보인다.(그녀의 편집 내역은 여기서 볼 수 있다.)

  • 올해, 존 심커스는 "디지털 입지를 구축하기 위해 FP1 Strategies"라는 회사를 고용했다.[35] 비슷한 시기에 LA는 갑자기 그에 대한 긍정적인 정보와 도전자인 카일 맥카터에 대한 부정적인 정보를 올리는 데 관심을 갖게 되었다.
  • 또한 2012년 FP1 전략에서는 로드니 L. 데이비스의 홍보를 다루었다[36].동시에 LA는 갑자기 도전자 데이비드 M.의 페이지를 다시 쓰는 것에 관심을 갖게 되었다.(현재 다른 기사로 병합됨)
  • FP1의 장기 고객 중 한 명이 폭스 엔터테인먼트다.[37] LA는 최근 두 달 동안 Dish Network와 CEO인 Charlie Ergen에 대한 부정적인 정보를 대량으로 게시하는 것을 포함하여 Fox Broadcasting Co. Dish Network, LLC에 깊은 관심을 보였다.
  • FP1의 라이언 윌리엄스 부사장은 같은 날 트위터를 통해 ACCF의 에탄올 포지션을 비난했다("ExxonMobil에서만 160만 달러" [38])

요컨대 지난 4년간 LA의 주요 기사 프로젝트들은 모두 FP1 의뢰인이나 그 반대파인 것 같은데 FP1이 의뢰인을 맡았을 때 정확히 떠맡는다.이게 우연의 일치라면 정말 가슴이 두근거릴 거야, 그렇지?어떤 조치를 취할 수 있는가?필요한 경우 저작권 위반 사례 몇 가지를 포함한 그녀의 문제 편집에 대한 자세한 내용은 여기에서 확인할 수 있다. - Ellen McGill (대화) 14:49, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 응답을 받을 수도 있지만, 이런 종류의 일을 겪은 편집자들이 어울릴 수 있는 이해충돌 게시판에 이런 글을 올리는 것이 더 나을 것이다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 15:05, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그렇게 해도 상관없지만, 이것은 내가 잘못된 곳에 있고 대신 X에 게시하라는 말을 듣고 게시한 네 번째 또는 다섯 번째 연속 포럼이다.DMV를 통과하는 게 이것보다 더 쉬워!그래도 충고 고마워.노력해볼게.엘렌 맥길 (대화) 15:07, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
코인한테 이렇게 알리는 게 더 쉬울지도 몰라.위의 증거들을 잠깐 살펴본 결과, 관련된 타이밍을 고려할 때 의심스러워 보인다.지지하는 정당의 당원을 부풀리는 것 만으로도 나쁘지 않은데, 동시에 상대 정당에게 부정적인 편집을 하는 것은 노골적인 POV 편집을 의미한다.(긍정적) 기사가 모두 특정 홍보회사와 연계돼 있다는 점을 덧붙이자면 더욱 의심스러워 보인다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 2016년 4월 6일(UTC) 15:20, 6일(응답)
괜찮아, 고마워. 그냥 거기다가 베어서 붙여놨어.그냥 이 부분을 지금 삭제하면 되는 겁니까? -- Ellen McGill (대화) 15:22, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]
관리자(또는 다른 사용자)가 조치/조언을 취할 수 있으므로 나는 일단 그것을 남겨두겠다.오직 죽음에서만 의무가 종료된다(대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15:24, 6 (응답)
네, 감사합니다. -- Ellen McGill (대화) 15:27, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

205.154.229.150

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

IP는 특히 특정 학군 및 특정 학교에 관한 기사를 파괴하는 데 상당히 동기부여가 되어 있다.마치 그들이 어떤 개인적 연줄을 가진 청소년인 것처럼 말이다.다중 과거 경고.행동이 계속된다.긍정적인 측면에서는, 그들은 때때로 공공 기물 파손에 대해 창의적인 것처럼 보인다.티모시조셉우드 (토크) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 17시 12분[응답]

IP가 토론을 통지했다.C.Fred (대화) 17:16, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@Timothyjosephwood:즉각적인 행정 조치가 필요한 것으로 보이는 것은 무엇인가?오늘날 WP를 위한 공공 기물 파손이 충분하지 않은 것 같다.AIV 보고서.C.Fred (대화) 17:18, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
아마 이걸 거기에 놓았어야 했는데.꽤 일관된 패턴이군한 달 정도 아무것도 하지 마라.어느 날 아무렇게나 공공 기물 파손 행위를 뿌려라.반복하다.이런 패턴이 바뀔 거라고 기대할 이유가 없어.티모시조셉우드 (토크) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 17:36[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

관리행위

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이것이 적절한가?107.72.96.135(대화)가 추가한 이전 미서명 주석

꽤 전문가네.그러나 아마도 그는 비타협적인 태도에 석탄을 느꼈을 것이다; 정말로, 그것이 의도된 효과였을까?이 토론의 편집자에게 통보하지 못하셨습니다(현재 완료됨). 그리고, 2016년 4월 6일(UTC)에 ~~15:20, ~~15:20으로 게시글에 서명하십시오.[답신]
미안하지만 동의할 수 없다.만약 편집자, 특히 관리자가 그렇게 좌절하게 된다면, 그들은 진정될 때까지 키보드에서 물러나야 한다.닥터크리시 15:26, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
그들의 보고서의 장점이 무엇이든 간에, 이 보고서를 만든 IP가 꽤 오랫동안 리키를 괴롭혀왔다는 것을 주목해야 한다.최근의 토론을 보라 - 166개의 IP와 이 107개의 IP는 LA에서 동일한 장소를 배치하고 동일한 행동 패턴을 가지고 있다.MfD에서 리키를 괴롭히거나 그의 견해에 대해 터무니없는 발언을 한 107 IP는 이번이 처음이 아니다.A2soup (대화) 15:36, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
언급했듯이, 그 주제는 매우 전문적이고 논쟁의 여지가 많다.실제 질문에 대해 언급된 대로 대답하기 위해, 관리자의 구체적인 언급은 받아들일 수 없다.그러나, 암묵적이었을지도 모르는 두 가지 질문 중 어느 하나에 대답하는 것은 첫째, 그 논평은 맥락에서 차단할 가치가 없으며, 분명히 디스샵 가치가 있는 수준으로 올라가지 않는다.둘째, 그 논평은 여기서 보도할 가치가 있었는가?아니. 어떤 행정적 조치가 과민반응이었을 것이기 때문에, 여기서 보고되지 말았어야 했다.여기서 다루어야 할 유일한 문제는 OP/IP가 양말 퍼펫인지 여부인데, 나는 그 문제를 제기하지 않을 것이다.이 문제는 여기에 제기되어서는 안 되었다.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 15시 45분[응답]
IP가 어떤 이유로 인해 이 섹션의 이중 게시물을 추가했으며, 이 게시물이 다른 편집자에 의해 되돌아갔다는 점에 유의하십시오.~ 2016년 4월 6일 Talk 15:54 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자에 의한 일관된 반달리즘:142.29.14.4

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이 일은 한동안 계속되고 있는데, 가장 최근에 이곳이곳이 그랬다.그의 나머지 편집 내용은 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/142.29.14.4]을 참조하십시오.제라르 헤벨 (대화) 04:12, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

그것은 반달리즘에 대한 6개월 블록에서 최근에 나온 학교 IP이다.MaterialScient에 항의하면 재잠금할 수 있겠지만, 트윙클에 있는 표준화된 반달리즘 경고문을 읽었을 겁니다.닌자로봇피리테 (대화) 06:49, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

삭싱, POV 푸싱, 편집 및 일반 WP:NOTHER HERE

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

사용자:Alasss123WP:백과사전을 짓기 위해 여기 있는 것이 아니다.사용자의 전체 이력은 터키 정치에 대한 POV 기고로 구성되며, 레제프 타이이프 에르도안 [39], [40], [41], [42], [43], [44]귈렌 운동[45]에 대한 합의와 항상 반복되는 편집 전쟁이다.위와 같은 내용은 이미 이 사용자가 WP에 대해 전혀 신경 쓰지 않는다는 충분한 증거라고 생각한다.컨센서스, WP:BRD, WP:EDITWAR 또는 기타 다른 정책으로서 그들 자신의 POV를 추진하기 위해 여기에 있을 뿐이다.게다가 지금은 매우 의심스러운 WP도 있다.또한 DOOKy 새 계정은 위키백과 활동이 사용자로 되돌아가는 유일한 123 번호를 사용한다.Alasss123 [49].간단히 말해서, Alasss123은 명백한 WP로서 외설될 것을 제안한다.여기에 없는 경우.제피즈 (대화) 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC) 14:46[응답]

  • 레제프 타이이프 에르도안 반대, 토론 페이지에는 논란이 되고 있는 내용에 대한 합의가 이루어지지 않고 있으며, 보고된 사용자와 명명자가 토론을 통해 문제를 해결하려고 노력하지 않았다.AFAIS, 사용자:알라스스123제피즈 등에 의해 뒤바뀐 단계별 편집을 했다.보고된 사용자는 편집 요약을 통해 자신의 편집 내용을 설명했다.예를 들어, 이 편집에서 Alasss123은 " 문장은 주장되고 있는 것을 증명할 출처가 없다"고 주장했다.Alasss123은 그의 다른 편집에 대해 비슷한 설명을 제시했다.제피즈가 알라스스123이 반달리즘과 대규모의 블랭킹(왜 반달리즘이었는지는 말하지 않고)이라고 주장하는 편집본을 번복한 것이다.또 다른 예: 이 편집가 원본에서 찾을 수 없었던 논쟁적인 내용("일반적으로 독재자로 간주")을 제거하는 것이다.WP별:BLP, Alasss123은 이것을 제거함으로써 옳은 일을 했고, 회상은 왜 그를 되돌리고 있는지 결코 설명하지 않았다.여기엔 반달리즘이 정말 보이지 않아.음호세인 (대화) 2016년 4월 7일 17:14 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

부적절한 AfD 후보 시리즈

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

이는 근거가 제시되지 않은 상태에서 AfD 템플릿을 테스트하거나 악의적으로 사용하는 것으로 보인다.나는 그것들을 모두 되돌리고 싶지만, 누군가가 나를 되돌리고 AfD 템플릿을 제거하기 위해 템플릿으로 만들어 줄 것이라는 합리적인 기대를 가지고 있다. 그래서 우리는 여기에 있다.고마워, 2601:188:0:ABB6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (토크) 00:30, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

다 포장된 것 같다.알려줘서 고마워. --말콤xl5 (대화) 00:42, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
이것은 아직 Nsmutte의 또 다른 양말인 것 같다.마넷DTalk 00:45, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
동의함. SPI 접수, AFD 마감(WP:SK2) — JJMC89(T/C) 00:57, 2016년 4월 7일(UTC)[응답]
Anon이 ANI에 와서 막히지 않았어?누가 이걸 로그북에 넣어!제작 중인 기록이다.--v/r - TP 00:57, 2016년 4월 7일(UTC)[응답하라]
  • 나는 보나데아가 삭제하기 위해 만든 기사를 지명하고 자신의 토크 페이지에 부적절한 메시지를 남기는 등 명백히 보나데아를 괴롭히려는 IP - 106.220.147.22를 차단했다. --말콤xl5 (대화) 01:03, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

단지 기록을 위해, 당신은 Redlinked AFD 태그를 되돌릴 수 있다 - 만약 당신이 그것을 한 번만 한다면(전쟁을 편집하지 말 것) 그리고 IP 편집자에게 WT에 요청을 게시하도록 지시한다면:AFD나 기사의 토크 페이지는 AFD를 실제로 만들 수 없기 때문이다.그러나 그것은 공천을 위한 선의의 시도를 위한 것이다 - 이번과 같은 LTA 사건은 RBI로 접수될 수 있다.UltraExactZZ ~ 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC) 13:42, 7 했니[응답]

편집 요약의 법적 위협?

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

여기 12시Imperatrix Mundi 24분, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답하라]

그 남자는 법적 위협에 대해 차단되어야 하지만, 그의 주장 또한 조사되어야 한다, 특히 그것이 BLP 문제라면.베이스볼 버그스카라믹스What's up, Doc?→ 2016년 3월 27일(UTC)】 [응답]
치어리더 야구_벅스, IP가 누군지 알 것 같다.하지만 분명히 말할 수는 없다. 2016년 3월 27일 12시Imperatrix Mundi 31분 (UTC)[응답하라]

밥 램버트(Bob Lambert)는 다른 밥 램버트를 위해 모든 면에서 그리고 목적을 위한 도끼 직업이다.Ballyseedy IRA "Bob Lambert"는 소스가 잘 되어 있지 않다. 이 책은 2008년 피터 코트렐의 책에서 나온 것으로 보인다.수집(대화) 13:50, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

당연하지, 콜렉트.나는 그 벌꿀 트랩 남자를 말한 것이 아니다.하지만 IP는 사실상 자기 자신을 능가했다.IP가 차단되었는가?나는 Cottrell 작업을 특별히 WP라고 부르지 않을 것이다.RS- 연구보다는 짧은 가이드.Fortuna 2016년 3월 27일(UTC) 14:18[응답]
법적 위협을 통한 협박을 시도한 IP를 차단했다.그렇게 되면, 그 사람에 대한 우리의 내용이 잘 소싱되거나 제거되었는지 확인하는 것이 그들의 우려를 조사할 가치가 있을 것이다.HighInBC 14:20, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
HighInBC에 감사드리며, 위와 같이 Cottrell보다 더 나은 소스를 얻을 때까지 삭제하는 것을 제안한다. 2016년 3월Imperatrix Mundi 27일 (UTC) 14:22, 27 (응답)

그렇게 많은 사람들이 위키피디아가 바보들에 의해 운영된다고 생각하는 것이 이상한가?짐보 웨일스가 말했듯이, [법적 위협 없음] 정책은 전반적으로 좋은 정책이지만, 너무 자주 일어나는 매우 불행한 일련의 사건들이 있다. BLP 공격의 희생자는 위키피디아에서 끔찍한 것을 보게 되고, 나는 그들이 그것을 바로잡기 위해 위키피디아 사람이 될 도덕적 책임이 없다는 것을 우리 모두 인정할 수 있다고 생각한다. 그들 중 몇몇은 위협에 대해 이성적인 토론을 선호하는 위키피디아 사람들이 부적절하다고 생각하는 방식으로 반응한다. 물론이지, 그리고 왜 안되지? 그들은 불공평하게 공격을 받고 있고 그들은 상처받고 화가 났고 우리의 규칙이 무엇인지 알지 못한다. 그건 그들의 잘못이 아니야. 법적 위협을 이유로 현장에서 그들을 금지하는 것은 보통 별로 도움이 되지 않는 대응이다.[1]}}

지금 당장 크게 중요하지 않은 이곳의 차이점은 매우 불쾌하고, 비협조적이며, 명백히 수상쩍은 내용이 살아 있는 사람이라기보다는 죽은 가족 구성원을 다룬다는 점이다.아무도 그들의 매우 합법적인 우려를 해결하기 위해 IP에 손을 뻗지 않았다.이것은 진정으로 합리적이고 분별 있는 사람들의 행동이 아니다.빅 배드 울포위츠 (Hulaballoo라고 한다.) 2006년 이후 관리자에 의해 흙탕물 취급. (대화) 16:07, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

우리가 그들의 불평을 심각하게 받아들인 부분조차 눈치챘니?나는 짐보가 우리의 무법적 위협 정책을 바꾸기 위해 의견 일치를 찾으려 했는지 확신할 수 없지만, 그 정책 스탠스대로 우리는 법적 조치에 대한 적극적인 위협을 가진 사람들을 차단할 필요가 있다.
우리는 변호사가 아니며 법적 위협에 대해 유능한 방법으로 대응할 수 없다.우리는 그 이유에 대한 설명으로 그 사람을 차단하고, 만약 그들이 그 위협을 철회하면 그 블록이 되돌릴 수 있다는 것을 그들에게 알려준다.그리고 우리는 그것이 유효한지 보기 위해 그 불평을 조사한다.나는 네가 이곳의 모든 상황을 보고 있지 않다고 생각한다.HighInBC 16:12, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

참조

내가 실제로 무엇을 썼는지 알아채셨나요?나는 아무그들의 합법적인 우려를 해결하기 위해 IP에 손을 내밀지 않았다고 게시했다.그들의 토크 페이지에서 그 진술이 100% 정확하다는 것은 명백하다.IP의 토크 페이지에 게시된 상용어는 그들의 우려가 심각하게 받아들여지고 있다는 어떤 징후도 주지 않는다.여기서 OP는 IP에 이 논의에 대한 의무적인 통지/연결을 제공하지 않음으로써 정책을 위반했다.이 에피소드는 위키백과 편집자들이 진정한 의미의 문제보다 선택적으로 선택된 게임의 규칙에 더 신경을 쓰면서 야기된 또 하나의 FURBUR 상황에 불과하다.그것은 당황스러운 일이다.빅 배드 울포위츠 (Hulaballoo라고 한다.) 2006년부터 관리자에 의해 흙탕물 취급. (대화) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 16시 30분[응답]
사람들을 속인다고 부르는 것 같아?SQLQuery me! 10:26, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
@Hullaballo Wolfowitz:SQLQuery me! 11:35, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
왜 아직도 이런 논의를 하는 거지?IP는 법적 위협 때문에 차단되었다.실을 닫아라.--WaltCip (대화) 21:22, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답하라]
분명히, 다른 편집자들의 행동도 논의되고 있다.아직 실을 닫아서는 안 된다. -- Ed (Edgar181) 21:25, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답하라]

@Hullaballoo Wolfowitz: 그래, 네 글씨를 읽었어, 내가 읽으라고 한 걸 쓴 거야?나는 IP에 법적 위협에 대한 우리의 입장을 설명하는 공지를 남겼다는 점에서 "reach out"을 했다.우리는 그들의 관심사를 들여다보고 다루었다.아마도 당신은 IP에게 우리가 말했어야 했다고 생각하는 것을 더 잘 전달하거나, IP에게 직접 말하는 것이 더 낫다고 생각하여 예를 들어 우리에게 가르쳐 줄 수 있을 것이다.당신은 당신의 실제 관심사가 무엇인지 의사소통하는 것이 매우 서툴다.HighInBC 00:47, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

친근한 채팅은 어떻게 합법적인 풋스토밍을 가장 잘 다룰 수 있는지 보여준다.

  • 솔직히, 나는 법적 위협-특히 위협이 특별히 다른 편집자들을 향하지 않는 곳에서- 우리가 눈에 보이는 곳에서- 우리가 법적인 위협을 차단해야 한다는, 받아들여진 지혜를 결코 믿지 않았다. 그것은 대개 "감히" 하려는 실제 시도의 표시다.그래서 만약 누군가가 "이걸 고치지 않으면 난 고소할 거야!"라고 말한다면 어떻게 될까?재단은 스스로를 돌보는 법을 알고 있고, 만약 우리가 우리 자신의 규칙을 따르고 있다면 걱정할 것이 없다. 그리고 (가장 중요한) 차단은 실제 법적 조치의 기회를 줄이는 것이 아니라 오히려 그것을 증가시킨다. 우리가 어떻게 일이 돌아가는지 설명할 수 있는 통로를 차단하고, 우리가 포에 대해 신경 쓰지 않는 것처럼 보이게 함으로써.공훈에 찬사
그렇다면 왜 우리는 그 사람이 적어도 듣고 있는 것처럼 보이는 한 협박을 무시하고 고소장을 접수하는 대신 합법적인 발소리를 차단하는 일까?만약 그들이 관여하지 않고 계속 협박만 한다면(특히 내가 말한 것처럼, 다른 편집자들에 대해) 다른 어떤 집요하게 비파괴적인 행동과 마찬가지로 차단하라.EENG 00:55, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
가장 큰 이유 중 하나는 어떤 형태의 협박이든 우리의 중립적인 관점을 손상시키는 오싹한 효과를 가지고 있기 때문이다.만약 누군가가 "기사는 이러해야 한다, 그렇지 않으면 나쁜 일이 일어날 것이다"라고 말할 수 있다면 매우 강한 편견을 갖게 된다.당사의 WP:NLT 정책은 물론 논의의 여지가 있고 합의가 발견되면 변경될 수도 있다.HighInBC 01:01, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
Duh, 우리 모두가 알고 있는 것이 NLT의 논리라는 것을 재점검해줘서 고마워.질문(다시 한 번 말해야 할 것 같다)은 막연한 법률적 위협이 사실 위협적인지 여부(협박의 의도인지 아닌지는)와 (그 질문에 대한 답은) 선동하는 것이 사실 가장 유용한 대응 방법인지 여부다.거의 모든 "법적 위협"은 매우 새로운 편집자들로부터 나오기 때문에, 그러한 블록들이 다른 사람들대한 경고로 작용한다는 생각은 별로 설득력이 없다.EENG 03:00, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
그 태도 고마워.나는 NLT 정책을 그대로 시행하고 있다. 만약 당신이 변화를 원한다면 그 변화에 대한 합의를 구하라. 대신 나는 그것을 따를 것이다.HighInBC 03:30, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
천만에요.나는 네가 정책을 서면으로 시행하고 있는지 의심하지 않았다.우리의 LT에 대한 정책 재대우가 현명한가, 적어도 한 명의 다른 편집자가 그 문제를 제기하는 데 관심이 있는 것 같았고, 나는 이에 동참했다.당신이 경험이 많은 편집자들에게 정책을 바꾸는 방법은 합의를 모색하는 것이고, 관리자로서 당신이 그러한 변화를 따를 것이라는 것과 다른 약간의 명백함을 추구하는 것이라고 설명할 필요는 없다.EENG 03:53, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
그 정책의 토픽 페이지는 그것에 대해 토론하기 좋은 장소가 될 것이다.만약 내가 말한 것이 정말 명백하다면, 너는 거기서 그것에 대해 이야기하고 있을 것이다.HighInBC 04:07, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
당신의 논리는 잘못된 것인데, 왜냐하면 ANI의 토론자들은 종종 다른 곳에서 공식적인 제안을 하기 전에 특정 사건의 맥락에서 아이디어를 내곤 하기 때문이다. 문자 그대로 생각이 있는 사람들과 관료주의적으로 은둔하는 모든 것을 좋아하는 사람들은 그런 생각을 귀찮게 여길지도 모른다.아마도 당신은 내가 의심하지 않은 행정 조치에 대한 당신의 초기 방어를 더 이상 옹호할 필요를 없애지 않고 토론하고 토론하기를 원하는 사람들을 그냥 내버려 두었는가?EENG 04:25, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

법적 위협은 용납할 수 없다.사용자는 위키피디아를 고소할 수도 있고, 위키피디아를 편집할 수도 있지만 둘 다 할 수는 없다.만약 편집자가 그의 법적 위협을 철회하고 부인한다면, 그 때 차단하지 않는 것이 고려될 수 있다.그렇지 않으면 계속 차단된 채로 있을 거야야구 벅스 당근→04:31, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

여러분 역시 우리 모두가 알고 있는 현재의 정책/실용들을 반복하고 있으며, 호소력 있게 들리는 삼단논법을 외치고 있을 뿐이다.어쨌든, "나는 너무 화가 나, 만약 이것이 고쳐지지 않는다면 WP를 고소할지도 몰라!"라고 말하는 누군가는 아직 아무도 고소하지 않았고, 나는 그 정책/실무자들이 그런 일이 일어나지 않도록 하는 것이 최선인지에 대해 문제를 제기하려고 노력하고 있다.그러나 지금까지의 짚풀로 미루어 볼 때 당분간은 그런 의문들에 대한 재조사를 위한 땅이 비옥하지 않은 것으로 보인다.EENG 05:05, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
지금의 정책만이 아니라 좋은 발상과 실천이라는 게 내 입장이다.나는 단지 그 정책을 반복하는 것이 아니라 옹호하는 것이다.나는 벅스를 대변할 수는 없지만 그들이 들은 것을 반복하는 것이 아니라 의견을 표현하는 것이 아닌가 의심스럽다.나는 당신이 우리가 그 정책을 옹호하는 것이 단지 "귀찮게 들리는 삼단논법"이라고 제안함으로써 우리 둘 다를 경시하고 있다고 생각한다.NLT 정책의 토크 페이지에서 이러한 논의를 계속했으면 좋겠는데, 어떻게 개선할 것인지에 대한 구체적인 제안이 있다면 말이다.HighInBC 05:11, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
나의 원래 게시물은 오랜 세월 동안 지속되어온 NLT 주장이 과연 타당한지를 물었지만(예를 들어, "차단하는 것이 실제 법적 조치의 기회를 줄이는 것이 아니라 오히려 그것을 증가시키는 것, 우리가 어떻게 돌아가는지 설명할 수 있는 채널을 끊어버리고, 공로적인 불평에 대해 전혀 신경 쓰지 않는 것처럼 보이게 하는 것") 둘 다 아니다.그 질문도 인정하셨잖아요내가 말했듯이, 지금은 바람을 향해 소리칠 때가 아닌 것 같다.그러나 미래를 위한 한 가지 생각은 누군가가 재단에 이 모든 것에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지 법률적으로 물어봐야 한다는 것이다.기업들은 종종 소송 위협을 받지만, 그럴 때 단순히 전화를 끊는 것이 아니다. (그리고 WP는 사업이 아니라 요점이 남아 있다는 것을 알고 있다.)EENG 05:30, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
사실 나는 우리의 NLT 정책이 위키에서 협박을 피하는 것이라고 제안함으로써 당신의 질문에 대답했었습니다.이 블록은 차단된 사람의 이익을 위한 것이 아니며, 법적 소송을 막기 위한 시도도 아니다.그것은 위키피디아에서 법적인 문제를 제거하는 것이다. 왜냐하면 여기 있는 어느 누구도 이러한 문제들을 다룰 자격이 없기 때문이다.넌 "두"로 응답했고 아무도 네 말을 듣지 않는 것처럼 행동했잖아.당신은 당신의 질문에 대한 대답이 마음에 들지 않았을지도 모르지만 당신은 답을 얻었다.HighInBC 05:48, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
바로 그거야만약 누군가가 합법적이든 물리적이든 위키피디아 이외의 다른 위협들을 한다면, 그들은 편집 권한을 박탈당한 것이다.위키피디아를 편집할 수 있는 헌법상의 권리는 없다.base야구 벅스 당근→ 12:34, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
@베이스볼 버그: 사실, 현재 WP에서는:2015년 말(내 생각에)에 트윗된 NLT 정책은 사용자가 여기서 소송을 제기하겠다고 위협하지 않는 한, 위키백과(또는 위키백과 문제의 편집자 중 한 명)를 고소할 수 있다: "이러한 사용자들은 위키백과나 그 의 다른 곳에서 일어난 사건의 결과로 인해 서로 법적 분쟁에 연루되어 있는 것은 차단할 이유가 되지 않는다.위키피디아에 게시"나는 특별히 그 변화를 지지하지 않는다. 그리고 나는 그들이 약간의 침묵 속에 들어갔다고 생각한다.LjL (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 18:12 (UTC)[응답]
누군가 어떤 알 수 없는 이유로 나를 고소한다고 가정해 보자.그들이 누구를 고소해야 하는지 어떻게 알아냈을까?베이스볼 버그스카로틱스What's up, Doc?→ 21:13, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
@야구 벅스:뭐, 네 본명이 야구 벅스가 아니란 말이야?!젠장, 내가 버크씨에게 보낸 휴전 편지를 부인해야겠어...LjL (대화) 2016년 3월 29일 21:27 (UTC)[응답]
어쩌면 그럴 수도 있고 아닐 수도 있다.하지만 만약 누군가가 가명을 쓴다면, 원고는 어떻게 할 것인가?위키미디아가 기밀을 위반하도록 설득하는 법원 명령을 받아보시겠습니까?베이스볼 버그스카로틱스What's up, Doc?→21:30, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
@야구 벅스: 네. 14Imperatrix Mundi:28, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
하지만 정말로 위키피디아에 있는 사람들은 가명으로 글을 쓸 수 있지만, 실명으로 글을 쓸 수도 있고, 모든 오싹함과 효과를 느껴서는 안 된다, IMO. 위키피디아의 목적상, "법적 위협"은 가능한 법적 조치에 근거하여 자유롭게 기사를 편집하는 데서 오는 협박이며, 이것은 오싹한 효과를 만들어낸다.실제 법적 조치가 이뤄지는 것보다 이런 효과에 대한 협박이 더 큰 것은 무엇일까."아, 하지만 난 협박하지 않았어, 그냥 한 거야"라고 말하는 것은 재일탈출 카드로서 그다지 인상 깊지 않다.LjL (대화) 22:50, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

법적 위협 정책에 대한 오해 및 오해

@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, Baseball Bugs, Collect, HighInBC, Hullaballoo Wolfowitz, WaltCipENG:

차단된 관리자와 그 차단을 지지해 온 다른 모든 사람들에 대한 존경심에서, 이 상황은 심각하게 잘못 처리되었다.이전에 이 게시판에 여러 번 설명되었듯이 위키피디아에 쓰여진 것이 "거의" 또는 "방어"라는 문구는 그 자체로 "법적 위협"이 아니며, 어떤 것이 저작권 침해라는 문구 이상의 것은 법적 위협이다."법적 위협"은 한 명 이상의 편집자나 위키미디어 재단을 고소하거나 그에 대해 비슷한 조치를 취하려는 작자의 의도를 나타내는 진술(또는 아마도 매우 강력한 암시)이다.1923년에 일어난 일을 다룬 이 특별한 편집의 경우, 적어도 미국, 영국, 아일랜드를 포함한 대부분의 관할구역에서는 살아있는 사람만이 명예훼손으로 소송을 제기할 수 있기 때문에 이론적으로도 명예훼손에 대한 법적 청구가 제기될 수 없었다.

내가 작성한 중재 결정에서 이 문제가 다루어져 6년 전에 만장일치로 채택되었음에도 불구하고, 기사의 내용을 모욕적이라고 언급하는 것은 법적인 위협을 구성한다는 잘못된 생각은 널리 퍼져 있는 것으로 보인다(Wikedia: 참조).중재/요청/사례/알라스테어 헤인즈 2#페이지 기록의 원칙).그 결정에서 설명한 바와 같이, 그리고 이후에 모든 사람들이 인용하고 있는 정책 페이지에 쓰여진 것처럼, 위키백과에서는 다음과 같이 한다.법적 위협 없음#인정된 법률적 위협은 그러한 언어가 법률적 위협으로 잘못 해석되거나 인식되어 편집 환경을 손상시킬 수 있기 때문에 "거짓말" 또는 "방어"와 같은 단어의 사용이 금지된다.그럼에도 불구하고, 이 정책은 편집자의 그러한 언어의 사용을 논의할 때, "명확한 위협을 게시하는 사용자를 즉시 차단하기 보다는, 관리자가 먼저 사용자의 의도를 명확히 하는 것을 추구해야 한다"라고 명시하고 있으며, 이는 분명히 여기서 일어났어야 할 일이다.

좀 더 명시적인 법적 위협이 있었다고 해도, 그리고 '위협'이 이루어졌더라도 더 실체가 있었더라도, 위키피디아의 편집 규범과 정책에 생소하고, 자신이나 가장 큰 가족의 대우에 대해 불행이나 분노로 반응하고 있는 신참자들에게는 수당이 이루어져야 한다.그리고 세계에서 가장 유명한 인터랙티브 웹사이트.일반적으로 위키백과를 참조하십시오.새로사람들을 물지 마, 위키백과:법적 위협을 간과하지 마십시오. 관련 맥락에서 위키백과:생활인의 전기#기사의 주제의 편집으로 대처하는 것, 극단적인 상황을 제외하고는 모두 첫 번째 대응으로서 차단을 심각하게 저해한다.

정책은 항상 위키피디아가 무엇이고 우리 모두가 여기서 성취하려고 노력하는 것에 대해 적절히 적용되어야 한다.지금 상황은 누군가가 조상이 부당하게 모함을 당하고 있다는 것을 알고 화를 내며 우리에게 손을 내밀었고, 우리는 그들을 복잡한 정책 페이지를 가리키고 있는 거의 맞춤화된 템플릿과 함께 그들이 더 이상 편집하지 못하도록 즉각적으로 막아 반격했다.이것은 위키피디아가 작동해야 하는 방식이 아니다.

블록을 거꾸로 돌려서 우리의 편집방침과 그 이유에 대한 보다 합리적인 설명이 IP에 제공되어야 하며, 기사토크페이지에 더 많은 우려를 제기해 달라는 요청도 있어야 한다.내가 지금 당장 차단을 해제하기보다는 조금 더 많은 논의 끝에 차단을 해제하는 것을 미루고 있는 것은 어쩌면 놓쳤을 가능성 밖에 없다.뉴욕브래드 (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 15:59 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 recants과 disavows 이 진술:"‎The Ballyseedy 학살과 그 여파:밥 램버트 3프리 스테이트 지도자들의 3월 1923년 살인, 어떤 그가 그의 가족, 내 가족에 의해, defamatory으로 처리할 할 것 명령하지 않았다."←Baseball 벅스는 블록까지 혹은 있어야 한다.무슨 일이야, 선생님?carrots→ 16:15 3월 28일 2016년(CoordinatedUniversalTime)[답장].
내가 쓴 글을 읽어 보셨나요?뉴욕브래드 (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 16:16 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 그 협박성 발언이 "통과 참조"라고 생각하십니까?base야구 벅스 당근→16:18, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 내가 IP를 차단해야 한다고 말하지 않았다는 것을 주목해야 한다 - 사실 나는 그가 반대하는 주장이 애초에 서툴렀다고 지적했다.건배.수집(대화) 16:59, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
@Collect:나는 어떤 진술도 당신에게 돌리지 않았다.나는 실에 비평을 한 모든 사람에게 핑크를 보냈다.뉴욕브래드 (대화) 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC) 17:00[응답]
이러한 정책 재표시가 지역 사회 전반의 상징적 규범이 되기를 원한다면, 나는 여기에 관련된 사람들보다 훨씬 더 많은 편집자들을 ping할 것을 제안한다. 2016년Imperatrix Mundi 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

그들은 그것이 모욕적이라고만 말하지 않고 "그의 가족,가족에 의해 모욕적인 대우를 받을 것"이라고 말했다."치료받을 것"은 행동의 위협이다.그것은 분명히 오싹한 효과를 가지려는 의도였다.

나는 그 블록이 정책과 우리의 모범 사례에 부합한다고 생각한다.나는 NPOV가 사용자들이 그렇게 다른 사람들을 위협하도록 내버려 두는 것은 좋지 않다고 생각한다.블록을 되돌리려면 계속 진행하십시오. 그러나 이 사용자가 나중에 위협을 시도할 경우 이에 대해 책임을 지십시오.HighInBC 17:21, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

편집자는 실제로 우리의 WP:BLP(소싱되지 않은 정보 제거)를 따르고 있었다.우리는 심지어 WP:BLPREMOVE Editors에서 자신들은 잠재적으로 모욕적인 자료들을 놓고 편집전쟁에 빠져 있다는 것을 발견하는 데까지 사용한다…. IP 편집자는 마법의 단어인 BLP를 알지 못했지만 오히려 상식을 사용한 것은 차단할 이유가 되지 않는다. 더욱이 그러한 반동적 차단은 모호한 편집 요약보다 훨씬 더 '킬링'적이다.NE Ent 17:48, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
이런, 나는 반복하기 싫지만 그들은 단지 "방어"라고만 말하지 않았다.그들은 "그의 가족, 가족에 의해 모욕적인 대우를 받을 것"이라고 말했다.이것은 행동의 위협이다."내 가족이 치료할 것"이라는 문구는 "의지"와 "치료받을 것"이라는 단어에서 보여지는 행동의 약속이다."의 가족, 나의 가족"이라는 말은 제3자에 대한 경고만이 아니라 자신들로부터 위협이 오고 있다는 것을 보여준다.이것은 단순히 어떤 것이 모욕적이라고 말하는 것이 아니라, 행동을 취하려는 의도를 보여주는 것이다.
NLT 차단 템플릿은 블록의 원인이 무엇이고 블록을 해제하기 위해 무엇을 할 수 있는지 설명한다.그들은 언제든지 위협을 철회할 수 있다.HighInBC 17:56, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

잘 말했다, 사용자:뉴욕브래드.사용자:야구 벅스, 여기서 뭐하는 거야?몇 년 전에 이런 멍청한 짓거리 때문에 관리자 게시판에서 쫓겨난 줄 알았는데나머지, 특히 사용자:HighInBC, "명예훼손 취급"은 "나는 당신을 고소할 것이다"와 같지 않다.그럴지도 몰라.그러나 그것은 WMF에게 보내는 편지를 의미할 수도 있다. 그것은 문제를 ANI나 BLPN으로 가져가는 것을 의미할 수도 있다.아니면 다른 것.연기하기 전에 편집자가 의미하는 바를 명확히 하라. --Anthonyhcole (토크 · 기여 · 이메일) 00:57, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

아무리 생각해도 네가 틀렸다.야구 벅스 당근→ 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC) 01:31, 29 (응답)
벅스에 대한 당신의 애드호미넴 공격은 대화에 별로 도움이 되지 않는다.당신과 의견이 다른 사람들을 공격해서 얻는 것은 아무것도 없다.HighInBC 03:41, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그는 최근 들어 특별히 적극적으로 나서지 않았으니, 왜 그가 이런 문제들에 대해 뒤처져 있는지 이해할 수 있다.야구 벅스 당근→03:53, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 이것이 직접적으로 NLT에 속할 만큼 충분히 강하지 않다는 것에 동의하지만, 심지어 그 위협이 사법적 조치를 언급하는 것만큼 가능성이 높은, 심지어 특히나, 애매모호한 어떤 종류의 결과를 암시하는 것은 미개하고 소름끼치는 일이다.적절한 WP가 있어야 한다.여기서 DOLT 평가는 NLT에서 실행 가능한 것으로 간주하지 않더라도.이 모든 것은 "합리적인 소송 예상"이 발생하는 NLT 블록만 허용하는 범위 내에서 진자가 다른 방향으로 지나치게 흔들리지 않도록 우리 모두에게 주의를 주겠다.NLT는 그런 식으로 해석할 수 있을지 모르지만, 커뮤니티의 관행은 NLT가 그보다 더 광범위할 정도로 정책을 재정립했다고 본다.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 01:34, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

칠럼, 블록 툴에 접근할 수 있어이런 상황에서 꺼내서 흔들어댈 필요는 없다.제발 그 남자한테 말 좀 해봐."미안해.조사하고 있어.그것은 논의되고 있다그런데 WP:NLT를 확인해 보십시오." 경청하고, 알리고, 충고하고, 예의 바르고, 도움이 된다.약간의 조언이 잘 될 때 당신의 도구로 사람들을 때리는 것은 좆이 되는 것의 정의다. --Anthonyhcole (talk · 기여 · e-메일) 06:00, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

너는 NLT의 변경을 제안하는 것을 환영한다.법적인 위협은 경고가 아니라 차단을 요구한다.너 자신에 대한 모욕은 계속하라. 그들은 공동체가 만든 정책을 시행하는 것보다 훨씬 더 비열하다.정말로, 난 여기서 내 일을 한다고 해서 이런 대접을 받을 자격이 없어.만약 그 정책이 마음에 들지 않는다면 그것을 바꾸려고 애쓰지 마라, 그것을 시행하는 사람을 욕하지 마라.
위키백과 대화:2015년 8월 26일 이후 아무런 법적 위협도 편집되지 않았다.나는 지역사회의 합의를 따랐고 그 정책은 매우 안정적이었다.만약 네가 그 정책이 마음에 들지 않는다면, 그것을 바꾸면 나는 그것을 따를 것이다.나는 정책을 어떻게 시행할지 선택하지 않는다.HighInBC 14:28, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
"관리자는 명백한 위협을 게시하는 사용자를 즉시 차단하기보다는 먼저 사용자의 의도를 명확히 하는 방안을 강구해야 한다."앞으로 이 점을 기억하도록 노력하십시오.이제 당신에게 지적되었으니, 만약 당신이 먼저 그들의 의도를 명확히 하고 WP를 지목하지 않고 명백한 법적 위협으로 사람들을 차단하는 것을 본다면:NLT, ArbCom으로 바로 데려다 줄게.특히 차단 또는 차단할 위협과 관련하여 정책을 따르십시오.카우보이처럼 굴지 마. --Anthonyhcole (대화 · 기여 · 이메일) 15:32, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
"해야 한다" ≠ "해야 한다"다른 문제가 없는 한 관리자의 재량에 따른다.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 17:33, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
사용자:Mendaliv: 예, 그래야 한다.우리는 지적 관리자가 재량권을 사용하거나 심지어 가끔 실수를 할 수 있는 예외를 허용한다.예외.가끔. --Anthonyhcole (대화 · 기여 · 이메일) 03:21, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
과연. 이렇게 블록-행복한 판단력 행사 거부, 혹은 판단력이 발휘될 수 있다는 인식조차 관리인에게서 보기 힘든 것이다.EENG 18:58, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
누군가가 법적 위협을 할 때, 그들이 할 수 있는 유일한 편집은 그들의 사용자 페이지로 가서 법적 위협을 철회하고 무시하는 것이다.베이스볼 버그스카로틱스What's up, Doc?→19:14, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서 누가 말한 모든 것을 무시하는 또 하나의 피곤하고, 멍한 재작성.아마도 나는 "판단을 행사하기를 거부하거나 심지어 판결이 행사될 수 있다는 것을 인지하는 이 블록 행복의 거절은 관리자(또는문제에 대해 다른 편집자)에게서 보는 것을 괴롭힌다." EENG 20:13, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
더 오래 끌기 전에 해치워라.GABHello! 22:42, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.
그 정책이 마음에 들지 않으면, 그것을 바꾸도록 로비를 해야 한다.야구 버그스카로틱스What's up, Doc?→20:50, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
여기서 누가 말한 모든 것을 무시하는 또 하나의 피곤하고, 멍한 재작성.이러한 블록-행복한 판단력 행사 거부, 또는 심지어 판단이 행사될 수 있다는 것을 인식하는 것은 관리자(또는 그 문제에 대해 다른 편집자)에게서 보는 것을 괴롭힌다.EENG 22:31, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
와우, 데자뷰 같네데자뷰와 같다. ball베이스볼 버그스카로틱스What's up, Doc?→22:36, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
판단력을 발휘하지 못해 산만해지기 위한 또 다른 피곤한 시도.EENG 22:38, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
이번에는 중역 요약을 지켜줘서 고마워.야구 벅스 당근→22:40, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
위키피디아에서 한 가지 배운 것이 있다면, 관리자와 편집자는 법적 위협이 무엇인지 모르고 법적 위협이 무엇인지에 대한 자신의 해석에 근거해 누군가를 차단할 것이라는 점이다.나는 한때 "돌아갈 때까지" 차단당하기도 했다. 한편, 내 토크 페이지에서 90%의 편집자들이 그 차단을 비판하였다.조셉(talk) 경 13:42, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 네가 이것에 대해 말하는 거라면, 그것은 자격이 있어.베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→ 17:50, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그것을 언급하고 있고, 아니, 그것은 법적 위협이 아니다.ADL은 법정이 아니다.만약 내가 CNN에 당신에 대해 이메일을 보낸다면, 그것이 법적인 위협인가?아니오. 관리자는 정책을 따라야 하며 "X에게 이메일을 보내거나 연락할 것"이라고 말하는 것은 법적 위협이 되지 않는다.조셉(talk) 경 20:01, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
그것의 의도는 협박하기 위한 것이었고, 따라서 그것은 자격이 있다.베이스볼 버그스카라스틱What's up, Doc?】→20:07, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 말했듯이, 당신과 대부분의 관리자들은 NLT 정책을 숙지해야 한다.뉴욕브래드사는 이를 친절하게 게재하며 법적 위협이 있어야 한다고 재차 강조했다.조셉(talk) 경 20:10, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
당신의 협박이 농담으로 의도된 것이 아니라면, 그것은 자격이 있고, 당신은 그것에 대해 적절히 차단되었다. 그리고 당신이 그것을 부인한 후에 복권되었다. ← 베이스볼 벅스 당근 → 20:18, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]

여기서 내가 말한 것은 기존 정책을 변경할 필요가 없고, 2010년 이전과 같이 기존 정책을 고수할 필요가 있다는 점에 유의하십시오.

어떤 경우든, 협업 편집에 대한 적절한 맞춤형 메시지로 IP 차단을 해제할 것이다. 비록 이것이 동적 IP라면, 이것은 대부분 상징적인 제스처라는 것을 깨닫지만 말이다.뉴욕브래드 (대화) 2016년 3월 29일 23:21 (UTC)[응답]

검토해보자: "그가 어떤 제안도 그의 가족, 가족으로부터 모욕적인 대우를 받을 것이다." 자, 위키백과의 모욕적인 자료에 대해 어떻게 할 수 있을까?여기 불완전한 목록이 있다.

  1. 편집 요약의 영어 단어 "defamination"을 사용하여 삭제
  2. 위키 링고 "BLP"를 사용하여 제거
  3. 이를 WP에 참조한다.BLP
  4. e-메일 정보-en-q@wikipedia.org당:명예훼손
  5. A에 게시하다
  6. 좋아하는 관리자의 대화 페이지에 게시하십시오.
  7. 기사토크 페이지에 {{admin 도움말}을(를) 게시하다.
  8. 기사토크 페이지에 댓글을 달다
  9. 삽입하는 사용자의 토크 페이지에 코멘트를 게시하다.
  10. wmf에서 누군가를 찾다:직원_and_contractors 및 e-메일 발송
  11. 목록에 있는 전자우편을 보내십시오.메타당 wikimedia.org:옴부즈만 위원회
  12. 소송을 제기하다
  13. 기고자를 고소하겠다고 협박하다

그 중 마지막 두 개만이 차단 가능한 법적 위협이다."행동"이 결정된 것은 증거 없이 "법적 행동"을 의미하는 것이고 우리는 그것에 대한 정책을 가지고 있다: 선의로 행동하라.편집자에게 잘못된 것을 알려주기 보다는 올바른 일을 하도록(예: WP:BLP ) 간단히 알려주는 가장 간단하고 최소한의 드라마 솔루션.NE Ent 00:09, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

NLT 정책을 바꾸려면 합의를 봐야 한다고 누군가가 말할 것이다.EENG 03:35, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
AGF는 선의의 가정이 이루어질 수 있는 일상적인 편집에 적용하기 위한 정책이다.나쁜 믿음의 가정은 그 자체가 선의의 행동으로 받아들여질 수 없으며, 따라서 AGF를 위반하는 어떤 행동도 우리가 "선의를 지녀야 한다"는 이유로 옹호되어서는 안 된다.게다가, NLT는 위키백과 편집자들이 오싹한 영향을 받는 것을 방지하고, 다른 사용자들이 그들에게 그러한 영향을 미치는 것을 막기 위해 고안되었다; 그것은 위협을 하는 사람의 의도와 그것을 받는 사용자의 정신 상태에 미치는 영향에 관한 것이다.다시 말해, 모든 것이 맥락에 관한 것이다."이런 명예훼손이 계속된다면 조치를 취하겠다"고 말하는 것은 '행동'이라는 단어 앞에 '법적'(항상 암시)이라는 단어가 붙지 않더라도 소름 끼치는 효과를 가하려는 매우 분명한 시도다.만약 당신(NE Ent, 또는 Newyorkbrad, 또는 다른 누군가)이나 묵시적인 법적 위협을 받고 있는 사용자가 나가서 이런저런 관할권의 명예훼손 법률을 조사해야 한다면, 한 관할권에는 한 가지 규칙이 있는지 다른 관할권이 있는지 여부가 중요한지를 알아내야 한다면, 소름끼치는 효과가 있었음이 명백하므로, 따라서 WW를 기다리는 동안 차단이 만들어져야 한다.법적 위협이 발생하지 않았다는 설명 또는 설명.AGF가 유죄 당사자가 '고소하겠다'거나 '법적 대응을 하겠다'는 정확한 말을 사용한 경우를 제외한 모든 사건에서 NLT를 앞지른다는 것은 NLT 정신에 크게 어긋난다.그리고 경계선 NLT 폭력으로 인해 NLT 블록을 만들거나 요청하는 것은 AGF 폭력이라고 부르는 것은 본질적으로 "이 사용자가 소름끼치는 효과를 겪었다고 말할 때 분명히 거짓말을 하고 있다"고 말하는 것인데, 그 자체로 훨씬 더 나쁜 AGF 폭력이다.
물론 좋은 절충안은 차단 관리자가 NLT 위반으로 차단된 사용자들에게 소름끼치는 효과를 일으키거나 실제 법적 조치를 취할 의도가 없었다는 것을 명확히 하는 것이 차단되지 않은 결과를 초래한다는 것을 항상 상기시키도록 하는 것이다.
히지리 88 (聖や) 05:26, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

새로운 사용자, 같은 문제.

최근 차단된 사용자 Nouman khan sherani(토크 · 기여)는 다음과 같은 계정을 만들었다.누만 아르바즈칸(토크 · 기여)은 같은 행동을 계속하며, 또한 차단해제를 요청하는 구 사용자 사용자 페이지에 글을 쓰기도 한다.토크페이지에서 지목했지만 도움이 될지는 의문이다. --OpenFuture (토크) 21:15, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

는 어떤 선의의 가정도 이제 창밖으로 나갔다고 해도 무방하다고 생각한다.서약 블록이 순서다. --Chees(토크) 21:20, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
솔직히 말해서, 나는 그것이 나쁜 믿음이라고 생각하지 않는다. 그것은 WP의 부족이다.역량. --OpenFuture (대화) 22:06, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
Drmies Bb23은 3월 15일 이후로 편집하지 않았으며, 그들의 토크 페이지 상단에 그들이 불확실한 시간 동안 사라질 것이라는 메모를 가지고 있다.당신은 다른 사람을 호출하는 것을 원할 수도 있고, 다른 관리자가 이것을 보고 일을 처리할 수도 있다.마넷DTalk 04:05, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
와, 돌아온 줄 알았는데bb23은 구내를 떠나도록 허용되어서는 안 된다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 13:26, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
다른 사람은 없다.드레이미스 (토크) 23:03, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
정말이지 예전 같지 않았다.GABHello! 23:08, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
포뇨를 소환할 수 있을 것 같아. --QEDK (TC) 09:22, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
날 소환할 수는 있지만 내가 도움이 될 수 있을지 모르겠어나는 Drmies보다 더 많은 정보를 가지고 있지 않고 내가 무엇을 도와야 하는지조차 모른다.분명히 나는 Bb23이 아니다.--제즈벨의 포뇨bons mots 22:02, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
포뇨, 무엇보다도 네가 없는 것보다 너와 함께 있는 게 더 나아.내가 이 메시지를 보기 전까지는 봄이 시작되지 않았던 것 같아.둘째, 여러분과 Bbb는 기존의 SPI에 어떤 것을 연결하고 보관소를 탐색하는 방법을 알고 있다.고마워, 그리고 좋은 저녁 보내!드레이미스 (토크) 22:38, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
그거면 이득이 될 야, 서트드라미스포뇨에 대해 어떻게 생각하십니까? --체스(토크) 09:00, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 여기서 여러 가지 실을 묶으려고 하는 것보다 더 나을 것이다.--제즈벨의 포뇨bons mots 15:19, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼, 포뇨.조언해줘서 고마워. --Chees (대화) (출연) 18:09, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

괴롭힘이 심해짐

어떤 사용자가 나를 특정 카즈(소아성애자)의 삭푸라기라고 비난하려고 했지만, SPI가 쫓겨났음에도 불구하고 그는 나를 카즈라고 부르는 것을 멈추지 않을 것이다.사실 그는 단지 조롱에 동참하기 위해 더 많은 친구들을 모으고 있다.조언해 주시죠.나는 그에게 수십 번을 그만두라고 부탁했다.나는 그 용어가 불쾌하다고 생각하지만 그는 점점 더 나빠지고 있다.그는 또한 나를 자폐증이라고 부르며 내가 아스퍼거 증후군에 걸렸다고 말한다.만약 내가 그것에 대해 불평한다면 그의 친구들은 내가 방해하고 있다고 말한다.그들은 서로를 탐색하고, 나를 괴롭히고, 트롤을 괴롭히고, 내가 말하는 모든 것을 스핀닥터하고, 함께 편집 전쟁을 되돌린다.그것은 정말로 꽤 악랄하다.이것은 위키피디아의 모든 새로운 사용자들이 거쳐야 하는 일종의 위험천만한 형태의 입문서인가?4개월이면 충분하지 않아?얼마나 오래 지속되니?유후 (대화) 11시 57분, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

너는 증거로서 차이점을 수집해야 한다.누가 이런 짓을 하는지는 언급조차 하지 않는다(기존 ANI 사례에서 알 수 있을 것 같지만, 위와 같은 경우 어디에 게시했어야 하는지는 알 수 있을 것이다.) --OpenFuture(토크) 12시 2분, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
(충돌 편집)유후: WP 제공:당신의 주장에 대한 증거로서 DIF.이런 말을 반복해서 들으셨군요.
기타 사용자:위의 "YuHuw의 끝없는 중단 없는 편집 전쟁과 합의:"를 참조하십시오.무엇보다도, 그 실에서, 는 행동적으로 자신과 카즈(카라 족, 케라 족 등에 관한 기사에서 토디1을 되받아치기)와 유사한 IP 주소를 언급하면서, 분명히 이와 관련된 누구에게도, 「그런데, 이 IP[51]는 역시 당신의 것이 아니었던가」라고 말했다.그런 비난을 할 만한 유능하고 선의의 이유가 없었다.그의 행동에 대한 더 많은 예(잘못된 이름을 붙이는 것, 질문을 받았을 때 주제를 바꾸는 것, 그리고 아무리 선의의 설명이 제공되었더라도 나쁜 믿음의 이유를 다른 사람에게 돌리는 것)는 내 토크 페이지를 참고하라.이안.thomson (대화) 12시 5분, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
User_talk:Неполканов.는 이 보고서에서 유후가 여기 에 있는 누군가의 양말이라고 믿는다고 말했다.그러나 최근 SPI 보고서는 YuHuw를 상대로 제기한 것으로 네거티브로 판명되었다.코슈볼론 15:16, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
이것보아 SPI 폐쇄가 매우 주관적이었으며, 그것을 닫은 관리자가 유후만의 POV가 카즈만의 독특한 (카지미르 유제프 휴버트 원 스토퍼) POV라는 것을 끊임없이 제기하고 있기 때문에 그것을 다시 여는 것에 이의가 없다는 것을 확실히 하기 바란다.추가 증거물은 어제까지도 유후가 공급했다.는 요한 라인홀드 포스터와 카라 족 사이의 카즈 논쟁대해 독특한 추가 자료를 제공했다.다음 Google 결과를 참조하여 동일하다고 주장하는 사이트는 이전 SPI 라운드에서 광범위하게 논의된 카즈의 크림 연구소뿐임을 확인하십시오.그 밖에 유후(: 카라마이저)가 사용하는 용어도 카즈만이 사용하며 이 세상 어느 누구도 사용하지 않았다.나는 이미 SPI에서 그것을 언급했고 그 후/ 또한 비교적 정상적인 언어와 int와 함께 행동과 관심의 제한적이고 반복적인 패턴과 함께 사회적 상호작용과 비언어적 의사소통의 현저한 어려움으로 정의되는 카즈의 정신으로 유후의 행동을 방해하는 정말 독특한 것은 설명할 수 있다.타원성그래서 나는 유후의 CU 재개방을 고려해 줄 것을 부탁한다.나는 많은 사용자들이 이 어플리케이션에 가입할 것이라고 확신한다.I may supply again required details on demand Неполканов (talk) 17:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

한숨 쉬어, 같은 칼질이야.이런 주제에 대한 공감대가 무엇인지 알 수 없기 때문에 누가 공감대를 거스르고 편집하고 있는지 판단할 수 없다.내가 위에 올린 것을 반복하는 것; 이 부분은 그것의 포크로 되어 있다.Keraites편집 이력을 보면, 편집 요약에 정말 흥미를 잃었어."편집 요약에 기록하여 무언가를 제거하는 척" "이 사용자가 새 ID로 WP에 재서명한 이후 이 문제의 네 번째 또는 다섯 번째 되돌림", "사용자 복원 취소:안시엣스테페의 미트푸펫의 POV", "요약 편집 모욕은 매우 모욕적이고 괴롭다", "유후"의 편집 번복.그가 추가한 새로운 출처를 읽으면 그가 인용한 진술이 뒷받침되지 않는다.Kaz"의 전형적인 모습, 그리고 계속.하지만 너희 모두를 제재하지 않고 어떻게 제재 대상으로 삼을 수 있는지 모르겠다.그래서 이와 관련된 겉보기에는 끝이 없어 보이는 드라마판 실이 너무 오랫동안 계속되어 왔다.위 내용은 나를 위한 것이며, 내가 이 모든 것을 열심히 헤쳐나가기에는 너무 심드렁하고 TL;DR이다.나는 이것을 Talk:Keraites로 가져가서 그 페이지에 있는 가장 최근의 두 편집의 되돌리기 전쟁을 정리하려고 노력할 것이다.너희들은 콘텐츠에 더 집중하고 서로를 헐뜯는 일은 그만둬야 한다 wbm1058 (대화) 18:20, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]

인도 케랄라에서 IP-호퍼에 의한 파괴적 편집, 편집-전쟁 및 파괴 행위

지난 5주 이상 동안 그들은 두 가지 기사를 반복적으로 편집해 왔다.

기사에서 편집-경전 및 교란 편집, 반복적으로 파괴(예, 올바른 단어임) 대화:사교적인 일, 그리고 나의 토크 페이지.

IP 호퍼를 다루려고 시도해온 편집자 중에는 Jim1138(이 문제에 대한 이전 ANI를 시작한 사람[아래 부분 참조])이 있다.[52]), 신술리아드, 내 이름은 데이브, 물질과학자, 카시안토, 마리안나251아니다.

두 기사의 장기적인 반보호(또는 변경 보류 중) 또는 소프트 레인지블록 등 처리할 수 있는 방법이 필요하다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 12:11, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

두 기사 다 임시로 준보호 조치를 취했어.레인지 블록이 필요할 것 같지만 아직 습득하지 못한 기술이다.리즈Read! Talk! 20:52, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
여러 개의 레인지 블록이 필요하겠지. 그 두 가지 기사에만 집중한다면 그럴 가치가 없어.알림: 보류 중인 변경 사항도 옵션임.NE Ent 21:27, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
네, 레인지 블록은 사용할 수 없다.세미 프로텍션 또는 PC1이 선택 가능하다. --말콤플렉스5 (토크) 23:36, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 의견: WP에 접수하는 것이 가장 좋을 수 있다.SPI 또는 WP:LTA는 관리자와 Checkuser가 추가 조사를 지원하고 필요한 경우 여기서 다중 범위 차단 기능을 지원하기 위해 모든 데이터를 컴파일하는 방법임.Cirt (대화) 00:30, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

여러 기사에 걸쳐 국가주의적 삭푸펫 파괴

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

분명한 양말, 사용자:Στεφανος Οι Οι Οι has been vandalizing a lot of Greek-related articles in the last hour to push a nationlist POV [53], [54], [55].사용자는 WP에 따라 분명한 양말이다.DOK; 비록 그 계정은 한 시간 전에 만들어졌지만, 이미 위키 종단학, 롤백 기능, ANI 등과 잘 알고 있다.[56] (사용자가 양말이 아닐지라도, 계정은 분명히 WP:여기 말고.제피즈 (대화) 22:22, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

관리자에게:나는 선의의 목적으로 그곳에 있다고 확신한다.Jeppiz 편집장은 나의 기고문들에 대해 편견을 가지고 있지만, 이것은 나를 양말이나 방해하는 편집자로 만들지는 않는다.나의 편집이나 태도에 불만이 있는 사람은 나에게 말을 걸어보기만 하면, 그들은 내가 도움이 되는 합리적인 사람이라는 것을 금방 알게 될 것이다. --στεεααα ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ((토크) 22:25, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇다, 나는 주요 정책을 무시하는 기여를 싫어한다(WP:BRD, WP:EDITWAR, WP:NPOV, WP:MOSMAC, WP:UE)는 국수주의적인 POV를 추진하며, 거기에서 논쟁하지 않는다.이 1시간 계정에 대한 모든 내용은 기껏해야 사용자가 임의의 제재 하에 있는 구역에서 최악의 경우(그리고 대부분의 경우) 양말을 수정해야 한다는 것을 시사한다.제피즈 (대화) 22:32, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 편집한 어떤 지침도 위반하지 않았고, 적어도 과감하게 되돌릴 수 있는 BRD도 위반하지 않았고, 나는 이 최대치를 한 번 어디에서도 한 번 했다.내가 되돌아온 모든 것이 되돌아온 것은 아니며, 나는 토론에 적극적으로 참여하고 있는데, 너의 문제는 무엇이냐?στεαανςςςς ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ((토크) 22:36, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
UE에 대해서는, 그리스어나 외국어의 단 한 마디도 사용한 적이 있는가?στεαανςςςς ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ((토크) 22:37, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
이게 점점 우스꽝스러워져서 토론에서 손을 떼고 있어.누구나 사용자의 편집 내역을 직접 확인할 수 있다.어느 쪽이든 WP를 존중한다고 주장할 수 있다.BRD나 한 사람은 그것을 완전히 무시할 수 있지만 [57], [58], [59] 같은 시간의 공간에서 두 가지를 모두 하려고 하면 그저 어처구니가 없을 뿐이다.제피즈 (대화) 22:42, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 막혔다.Stefanos는 분명히 Right Great Drues를 위해 여기에 있다.고맙지만 사양할게.가이(도움말!) 22:44, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

일부 페르시아 제국

안녕, 나는 페르시아 제국의 일부에 지도를 포함시키고 싶었다. 예를 들면, 아차메니드 제국, 파르티아 제국, 중위 제국.그러나 다른 편집자들은 그것을 반대하고 있다.그들은 그들이 "품질"에 충분하지 않다고 말하고 있다.제발 그 문제를 해결해 줄 수 있니?아르만 ad60 (대화) 17:26, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

물론이지 WP:WP:3RR를 위반하고 콘텐츠 분쟁으로 ANI에 온 부메랑.문제는 해결됐습니다.티모시조셉우드 (토크) 2016년 4월 5일 19시 15분 (UTC)[응답하라]
이봐, 난 예전엔 공감대를 형성하려고 노력하지 않았어. 왜냐하면 내 영어실력이 그리 좋지 않거든.그러니, 제발 심각하게 받아들이지 마.글쎄, 지도로 문제를 풀 수 있겠니?아르만 ad60 (대화) 19:25, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
미안하다.문제가 없다.지도는 그대로 두자는 게 공감대인 것 같다.이 포럼은 당신이 원하는 것을 하지 않을 것이다. 그것은 다수의 관점을 무시하고 당신이 선호하는 변화를 강요하기 위한 것으로 보인다.
이쯤에서 그만두는 게 좋을 거야요청된 맵을 체크아웃하여, 사람들이 필요한 지도를 전혀 없는 기사에 게시할 수 있도록 하십시오.네 실력을 발휘해서 많은 사람들을 도울 수 있는 좋은 곳이 될 거야. 아마 고마워할 거야.티모시조셉우드 (대화) 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC) 20:00[응답]

폐쇄를 제안하다.사용자는 적어도 당분간은 WP를 포기하고, 보이는 모든 것을 비운 것으로 보인다.WP 가이드라인을 이해하지 못하고, 제2 언어로 편집하며, ANI의 목적을 이해하지 못하는 선의의 클러스터 덕.

사실 좀 슬프긴 하지만, 편집자가 지도 제작에 어느 정도 소질이 있는 것처럼 보이지만, 다른 많은 기사들도 그렇지만, 그것은 필요하지 않은 고도로 세련된 기사들에 적용하려고 노력했다.티모시조셉우드 (토크) 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC) 12시 29분[응답]

사용자에 의한 지속적인 중단:QEDK

사용자의 업무 중단을 제어하기 위한 관리자 개입 또는 커뮤니티 조치 모색:QEDK. 이 문제에 어떻게 대처해야 할지 조금 난감할 때:

  • G11이 위키백과 초안에 적용되지 않는 것에 대해 헛소리를 내뱉는 것:miscellany_for_deletion/사용자:아키라1111/신규_기사_이름_여기
  • 거짓 기사에 CSD 태그 [60] 반환
  • 부마랑이 필요한 나에 대한 지속적이고 부적절한 공격 [61][62]
  • [63] 많은 변경사항을 정책에 되돌리고 사용자에게 즉시 다음과 같이 질문한다.Callanec [64] - 선호하는 텍스트를 보호하기 위해 "전쟁 편집으로 인한" 페이지를 완전히 보호한다.
  • 그가 나를 상대로 한 주제 금지 조치에 대한 어떠한 지원도 받지 못하자 AN에서 그의 허튼소리에 대한 더 많은 관심을 구했다.
  • 태그 팀 구성에 대한 조사 및 추측[66]
  • 일반적인 불규칙성 및 WP 부족:상식

좌절감이 덜한 사람들이 조사해 볼 수 있도록 그냥 두고 가겠다.레거시pac (대화) 06:18, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 내가 한 말을 두 번 설명했다.복수 ANI 실을 만드느라 바쁘셔서 읽지 않으셨습니다.
  • 네, 그래서?그초안은날조된 것이 아니고, 네가 항상 행동해 온 원칙이라면 나는 대담해질 수 없다.그초안은날조된 것이 아니고, 네가 항상 행동해 온 원칙이라면 나는 대담해질 수 없다.
  • 인신공격은 어딨지?
  • 나는 그 중 어느 것도 지역 사회에 적응하지 못했기 때문에 정책 변화를 되돌렸다.사람들이 ILICEIT을 기반으로 정책을 편집하지 못하도록 하는 것이 나의 의도였다.
  • 지 지만? 무서워, 뭐야?
  • 내가 미개했던 곳이 어디지?상식 부족은 어디 있어?
자신의 ANI 실을 빼고는 조사할 것이 없다. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 06:25, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 너무 힘들겠지만 친절한 관리자가 QEDK를 손에 들고 무엇이 도움이 되고 무엇이 도움이 되지 않는지 설명하려고 노력해야 한다.@QEDK: WP에 대해 어떻게 생각하십니까? 호스트 아님?지나가는 사람들이 "어음이기 때문에" 무기한으로 물건을 보관할 수 있어야 하는가?어떻게 이 페이지가 유용할 수 있을까?CSD 태그를 제거하기 위해 4번 편집한 이유는?태그가 잘못 적용되었고 서류 작업이 제대로 되었는지 확인하셨나요?조누니크 (대화) 06:36, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
(분쟁 편집 × 2)잘못된 태그를 추가해서 이전 복원, 제거, 그래서 4번 제거했다.그렇다, 나는 모든 사용자 공간 초안은 BLP 위반이나 UP#COPES와 같은 위키백과 정책을 위반할 때까지 무기한 보관되어야 한다고 믿는다. 초안은 기사화하기에 적합하지 않기 때문에 초안이다. 초안은 삭제할 이유가 없다.내가 정책에 반하는 일을 했다고 제안할 것은 아무것도 없고 만약 그렇다면, 그렇게 인용하라. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 06:44, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 요점을 놓쳤다: 어떤 유능한 편집자도 논의 중인 페이지가 사용자 공간 초안이라고 생각할 수 없었다. 그것은 명백한 쓰레기여서 위키피디아는 호스팅 서비스가 아니라는 메시지를 보내기 위해 삭제될 필요가 있다.Get WP:NOTWEBHOST는 사람들이 여기에 물건을 저장하기를 원한다면 취소한다.조누니크 (대화) 08:54, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
무슨 소리야?NOTWEBHOST는 위키피디아를 개인 블로그, 기념비, 위키 또는 클라우드처럼 취급하는 것을 방지한다.그 초안은 합법적이며 특정 스티븐 레이놀드에 대한 정보를 담고 있다.다시 말하기 전에 위키백과 정책을 완전히 읽어보십시오. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 11:52, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
(분쟁을 편집한다) 나는 당신의 의견이나 QEDK의 최근 편집 이력이 파괴적이거나 미개한 것에 대해 간단히 볼 때 아무것도 보지 못한다.규칙을 무시하지 않는다는 귀하의 비난(WP가 호출하는 정책:상식)은 그들을 질책하기 보다는 표창 받을 자격이 있도록 한다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 06:42, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

"왜 '상식 활용'은 공식 정책이 아닌가.그럴 필요는 없다. 근본 원칙으로서 어떤 정책보다 우선이다."레거시pac (대화) 06:45, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]

언제까지 이 가식을 올릴 거야?말할 것도 없이, 정말로 전체를 읽었더라면, 입장을 진전시키거나 행동을 정당화할 때, 당신 자신의 상식이 아닌 기존의 합의, 지역사회 기반 문제, 백과사전의 이익에 근거하여 주장을 펼쳐라. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 06:46, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]라고 되어 있다.
{{essay}}}의 고지 사항도 "기본 원칙으로서 어떤 정책보다 우선한다"는 것이 아니라는 것을 다루고 있다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 06:50, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이 스레드의 오프닝 포스트에 있는 글머리 기호 #4에 관한 정정 사항: @QEDK: 캘러넥에게 보호를 요청한 것이 아니라 WP에 게재한 글:RFPP(요청), 맞지?만약 당신의 요구가 부적절했다면, 그것은 아마 허락되지 않았을 것이다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:05, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
응, RFPP에서 물어봤어. --QEDK (T 📖 C) 07:07, 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 당신이 User에게 다음과 같이 물어봤다고 말하려고 한 것은 아니다.캘러넥은 우연히 요청을 받았다.레거시pac (대화) 2016년 3월 27일 (UTC) 17:09 [응답]
  • 나는 이 중 일부가 레거시팩에 대한 QEDK와 Godsy의 전면적인 복수처럼 보인다는 것에 동의한다.아마도 MfD 주제 금지가 필요한 것은 QEDK와 Godsy일 것이다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 02:35, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
우선, 어느 쪽도 여기서 그들의 행동의 질을 정확히 날 날려버리지 않는다.하지만 QEDK, 난 네가 솔직히 여기서 줄거리를 잃은 것 같아.우리는 6년 4개월 동안 편집되지 않은 초안에 대해 이야기하고 있다.짧은 길이의 초안은 가장 가상적인 상황 하에서도 메인 스페이스 기사를 대표할 수 있다는 개념을 옹호하기 위해 단일 독립 RS가 제공되지 않은 주제에 관련된다.실제 백과사전 콘텐츠로 개선될 수 있는 현실적인 가능성을 나타내지 않더라도, 사용자 공간에서 호스팅되는 것을 포함한 초안이 무기한으로 유지될 수 있다는 입장을 취하셨습니다.나는 우선 이 입장이 사용자 공간의 적절한 사용에 관한 일반 커뮤니티의 합의와 완전히 일치하지 않는다고 말할 것이다. 압도적 삭제 투표로 나는 이 시점에서 너에게 확신을 주었기를 바란다.
그러나 그 일반적인 원칙을 받아들이지 않더라도, 이 자료에서 그 프로젝트에 어떤 이점이 있을 수 있는가?이런 전장 분위기를 조성하고 이를 보존하기 위해 공동체의 시간을 허비하면서 어떻게 매트에 갈 만한 가치가 있을 수 있을까?이것은 정말로 G11의 특정 판독값보다 이것을 추구한 사례인가?만약 그렇다면, 내가 제안할 수 있는 것은 나무들의 숲을 보는 것이 다소 극단적인 방법이라는 것이다.아니면 다른 사람들이 여기서 제안한 것에 대한 진리가 있는가? 당신과 레거시팩 사이에 존재하는 적대감에 의해 이것이 더욱 추진된다는 것이다.왜냐하면 솔직히 현 시점에서 이 두 가지 선택사항 중 어느 것이 왜곡된 편집 우선순위를 더 반영할 수 있을지 모르겠다.내가 확실히 말할 수 있는 것은 당신이 내가 보기에 WP인 것 같은 것에 대해 열심히 운전하고 있다는 것이다.스노우 문제는, 그 결과, 이 문제에 대해 지역사회의 에너지가 합리적으로 정당화될 수 있는 것보다 훨씬 더 많이 소비되고 있으며, 그것은 누구에게나 유익한 결과를 가져올 것 같지 않다.삭제 논의에서 현 시점에서 어떤 입장이신지 잘 모르겠지만, 적어도 그 점에 대한 입장을 다시 한번 생각해보셔야 한다고 생각한다.06:08, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
블록탈출기
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.
QEDK는 아무 잘못도 하지 않고 있다.WP:N은 초안에는 적용되지 않으며, WP:V는 초안에는 적용되지 않으며, BLP조차도 실제로 초안에는 적용되지 않는다.우리는 이미 V가 적용되지 않기 때문에 드래프트 스페이스의 장난은 삭제할 수 없다고 말했다.여기에 잘못이 있는 이들 편집자들을 모두 소외시키기 위해 나선 것은 만연한 삭제론자들이다.17.72.99.22 (대화) 23:00 (UTC) 2016년 4월 2일 () 응답
아니, WP:BLP는 어디에나 적용된다.그리고 일반적인 속도의 삭제 기준의 나머지와 마찬가지로 WP:G3(blatant falseing)도 도처에 적용된다.초안은 면역성이 없다.clpo13(talk) 23:06, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
불행하게도, MfD의 몇몇 편집자들은 초안/사용자 영역에 적용되는 일반적인 기준에 대한 지역 합의가 전세계적인 합의를 지배해야 한다고 생각하는 것 같다.일반적인 기준은 드래프트 스페이스에 적용되지 않는다고 주장하는 코멘트는 이번이 세 번째, BLP는 드래프트 스페이스에 적용되지 않는다고 주장하는 코멘트는 이번이 네 번째다.이것은 같은 편집자가 반복해서 주장하는 것이 아니라 매번 다른 계정(또는 이 경우 IP)이었다."모든 페이지"에 초안이 포함되어 있다는 사실조차 우리가 동의할 수 없다면 ArbCom은 이 일을 끝내게 될 것이다.~ 롭 03:25Talk, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
그렇다, 본질적으로 우리는 누군가가 어떤 것을 사용자 공간에 놓는다면, 주제가 주목할 만한 이든, 그것이 사실이라 할지라도, 그러한 기준은 단지 메인 스페이스로의 이동을 위해 논의될 때에만 그리고 편집자가 돌아올 때까지 (5/6/7/10년 후에도), BLP와 다른 모든 규칙들만이 문제가 되기 때문에 영원히 남을 수 있다는 말을 들었다.신청하지 마십시오.누군가 거짓으로 증명된 페인트의 종류를 "발견"했다고 주장하는 완전한 헛소리조차, 누군가가 5년 전에 작성된 100년 동안 이미 죽은 사람에 대한 주장을 뒷받침하는 정보를 나중에 찾을 수 있다는 터무니없는 믿음(트롤이나 할아버지가 그것을 할아버지가 발명했다는 누군가의 믿음)에서는 충분하지 않다.cky81682 (대화) 06:42, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 나는 QEDK에 대해 크게 반대하지만, 나는 그가 한 어떤 행동도 현재 관리자 조치를 정당화할 수 있다고 생각하지 않는다.가장 골치 아픈 것은 페이지 보호를 요구하는 되돌리기였다가 즉시 호출하는 것이었지만, 지금은 대부분 취소되었다.편집자의 시간이 더 낭비되기 전에 우리는 이것을 닫고 넘어가야 한다.여기 있는 누구라도 MfD에 좀 더 적극적으로 참여하는 것이 가장 좋은 방법이기 때문에 MfD에서의 합의는 일반적인 합의와 더 밀접하게 일치한다.~ Talk 03:36, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 내 입장은 이미 명확하다.나는 메모성과 같은 내용 정책은 초안에는 적용되어서는 안 된다고 말했는데, 그것은 단순한 이유 때문에 초안이다.초안기사화하기에 적합하지 않기 때문에 삭제해도 소용없다고 본다.BLP와 CSD#G 기준이 초안이나 이와 마찬가지로 적용되는 것은 이해할 수 있다.여러분 모두 레거시팩의 무효한 움직임을 전혀 보지 못하셨는데, 나는 그가 왜 그렇게 하는지 이미 시인한 것은 말할 것도 없고 꽤 흥미롭다고 생각한다. --QEDK (TC) 09:16, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 QEDKI에 대해 아무런 반감도 없다. 그러나 그들이 상식의 결여를 이용한 사용자 공간 페이지 삭제와 싸우기 시작할 때까지 이 편집자와 교차 경로를 기억조차 하지 않는다.이것은 수작업에서 벗어난 QEDKI의 설득의 편집자들은 오래 전에 사라진 사용자들로부터 사용자 공간 페이지를 유지한 후 적어도 누군가 작업할 가능성이 있는 EDRD 공간으로 이동했을 때 되돌리기 위해 투표하고 있다.위키백과:miscellany_for_deletion/사용자:Agravert/Perdandin_Gravert_(2차_공천)나는 그것에 대해 연구하고 있고, 유명해진 유일한 주장이 거짓이라는 것을 발견했고, 그들은 여전히 드라이브 바이 에디터의 5살 된 사용자 공간을 유지하기를 원한다.여기서 누구를 보호해야 하나?레거시pac (대화) 04:36, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

I.P 주소 75.131.45.14 계속 페이지 파손 및 비소요 변경: 새 섹션

본 IP 주소 75.131.45.14(대화 · 기여 · WHOIS)오늘(미국 TV 프로그램)에 대해 계속 위반 및 허위 주장을 하고 있다.페이지 표시 및 기타 관련 TODAY Show 페이지(It Anchors 및 Weekend TODAY Show 페이지 및 NBC News 페이지)아이앤크라는 사람은 몇 달 전에 이 아이피와 문제가 있었던 바로 그 사람이다.주소: 사용자 대화:66.168.88.182 또한 이와 같이 보인다.P 주소는 과거 BreoncoUSA1 (대화) 04:15, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답하라]에서 경고가 있었던 적이 있다.

IP는 거의 연관성이 없으며, 나는 여기서 선의의 믿음이 전제되어야 한다고 생각한다.에리카 힐은 쇼를 떠났고 IP는 크레이그 멜빈이 영구적인 대체자가 될 것이라고 생각했지만 NBC 뉴스는 아직 새로운 앵커에 대한 홍보 활동을 하지 않았다.나는 현재 진행자가 없다는 것을 언급하면서 그 기여를 다시 편집했다.네이트 • (대화) 05:32, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

Godsy Disclosure & GAMEING the System

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.


[67], [68], [69], [70], [71], [72], [73], [74], Godsy는 즉시 자신의 WP에 착수했다.GAME 미션은 WP의 메인 스페이스로 복귀한다.논란의 여지가 없고 쉽게 검증된 주제[76], [77], [78], [79], [80], [81], [82]에 대한 STALEDRAFT 기사.

활동은 꽤 점잖고 완전히 위선적이다.그는 내가 사용자 공간에서 삭제된 자료(페이지들을 삭제하기 위해 페이지를 옮기는 바보 같은 제안도 포함)를 받는 것을 막으려 하고 있지만, 그는 내가 다른 편집자들이 확장하고 개선할 수 있도록 배치한 메인 스페이스에서 Caste 드래프트 자료를 삭제하는 자신이다.그의 행동은 WP와 정면으로 배치된다.커먼센스(Commonsense)와 WP의 가이드라인:도전."신뢰할 수 있는 출처가 없는 재료는 제거될 수 있으며 신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 대한 인라인 인용 없이 복원해서는 안 된다.신뢰할 수 있는 출처에 대한 인라인 인용문이 없는 경우 초기에 재료를 제거해야 하는지 여부와 얼마나 빨리 제거해야 하는지는 기사의 소재와 전반적인 상태에 따라 달라진다.일부 경우, 편집자는 참고 자료를 제공할 시간을 주지 않고 자료를 삭제하는 경우 반대할 수 있다. 중간 단계로 인용에 필요한 태그를 추가하는 것을 고려한다.[3] 인라인 인용 부재를 태그하거나 제거할 때, 게시된 신뢰할 수 있는 출처를 찾을 수 없으므로 검증이 불가능할 수 있다는 우려를 기술하십시오.[4] 자료의 검증가능성이 있다고 판단되는 경우, 인라인 인용문을 직접 제공한 후 삭제할지, 태그를 붙일지를 고려하는 것이 좋다."그는 자료를 추가하거나 어떤 것도 검증하려고 노력하지 않았다.

Godsy는 정책 WP에 반하여 얼마나 오래되었거나 부적합한지에 관계없이 사용자 공간 초안 [84]을 변경하지 않고 싶어하는 것으로 보이는 소규모 그룹의 일부분이다.모든 사용자가 작업할 수 있는 초안.

나는 이 모든 움직임들이 뒤바뀌고 물질이 메인 스페이스로 복구되는 것을 보고 싶다.실제로 의심스러운 것은 무엇이든지 태그하여 이러한 주제들을 개선할 수 있는지 알아보자. 그런 다음 좋은 주제들을 사용자 공간에 영원히 맡겨서 몰래 삭제하자.레거시pac (대화)20:58, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]

또 다른 보고서?한숨...관리자가 이 모든 것을 대담하게 처리해야 하거나, 아니면 Arbcom에 가게 될 것 같다.에버그린피르(토크){{re}}{{re}} 21:22, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답하라]
글쎄, 관련된 모든 행정관은 문제의 일부분이고, 그래서 우리는 보게 될 것이다.WP:UP는 대규모 편집으로 인해 MFD로 바로 옮겨가는 새로운 정책을 만들고 다시 논쟁이 계속되기 때문에 보호받고 있다. -- Ricky81682 (대화) 06:06, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
내 생각엔 Arbcom에서 끝날 것 같아.굿데이 (토크) 21:23, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 나의 이동 요약을 참고 있다.현재의 규칙과 그 이후의 나의 규칙을 말하는 것은 "Godsy... Godsy...는 얼마나 오래됐든 적절하지 않든 사용자 공간 초안을 손대지 않고 싶어하는 것 같다"와 같지 않다.나는 레거시pac이 해왔던 움직임의 종류에 대한 문제에 대해 공감대가 형성되어야 한다고 생각한다.다수의 편집자들에 의해 여러 포럼에 걸쳐 반대 의견이 제기되어 왔으며, 사용자들은 자신의 행동이 도전받을 때 규칙과 합의로 지지되지 않는 일방적 행동을 계속해서는 안 된다.만약 레거시팩이 내가 경외한 몇 줌의 움직임(약 10개)을 원한다면, 아마도 사용자 공간이나 드래프트 스페이스에서 올해 그들이 수행한 메인 스페이스로 약 250개의 의문스러운 움직임들을 질문하기 위해 불러야 할 것이다.나는 내 토크 페이지에서 위와 같은 WP:V의 비틀림을 반박했으므로 공간을 낭비하지 않고 여기서 다시 할 것이다.내가 할 말은 그것뿐이야.Godsy(TALKCONT) 21:34, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 위키피디아의 불만족스러운 마무리:관리자_noticeboard/IncidentArchive917#MfD_end_run_GAME이(가) 불행했다.그것은 Arbcom 판결에 비해 GAMING에 암묵적인 승인을 준다.논란이 된 대담성은 정책개발을 위해 멈춰야 한다. --스모키조 (대화) 22:48, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답]
내 입장에서 보면, 활동량이 내 복습 능력을 초과한다.전체 사진은 볼 수 없다. --스모키조(토크) 22:54, 2016년 3월 28일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • Facepalm 운명의 최고의 얼굴 왜 벌써 ANI로 돌아왔지?나는 이것이 ArbCom보다 먼저 갈 필요가 없었으면 좋겠어.우리는 드래프트 상황에 대한 답변을 위해 함께 노력해야 한다.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 00:04, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
Godsy(TALKCONT) 03:52, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

Godsy가 내가 모든 것을 삭제하기를 원한다고 주장하기 때문에 우리는 ANi에 있을 뿐이다. 하지만 내가 생각하기에 메인 스페이스의 페이지들을 개선하려는 노력 없이 효과적으로 삭제하는 것을 스스로 고집하기 때문이다.이제 그는 나의 모든 행동에 의문을 제기한다.진짜, 대체 무슨 계획인 거야?

정책 개발은 항상 선택사항이지만, 좋은 주제를 전달하기 위한 다른 편집자의 선의의 노력을 대량으로 취소하는 것은 WP를 방해한다.상식.만약 그가 정말로 페이지를 좋아하지 않는다면, AfD로 가져가라. 고치기 쉽지 않은 방법으로 그것을 몰래 삭제하지 마라.레거시pac (대화) 2016년 3월 29일 01:18 (UTC)[응답]

진술의 단계별 반박:
Godsy가 내가 모든 것을 삭제하길 원한다고 주장했기 때문에 우리는 ANi로 돌아왔다"고 말했다.
거짓. 나는 당신의 페이지 이동 중 일부는 현재 존재하는 가이드라인에 적합하지 않다고 말했다(즉, WP:StALEDRAFT, "주공간에 적합한 경우 메인 스페이스로 이동하십시오."에 대한 AN/I 스레드의 당신의 행동에 대해 설명하십시오(내가 시작한 것이 아님).메인 스페이스로 이동하는 페이지가 삭제되면 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않은 것이 분명하다.
"메인스페이스의 시작이라고 생각하는 페이지를 효과적으로 삭제"
"내가 메인 스페이스에 좋은 시작이라고 생각하는 페이지"는 "적합하다"는 것에는 불평등한 것 같다.
"이제 그들은 나의 모든 행동에 의문을 제기한다.진짜, 도대체 여기서 무슨 의제야?"
내가 집계한 바에 의하면 올해까지 약 20페이지가 삭제되어 너는 메인 스페이스로 이동했다.10% 정도 되는 겁니다.페이지가 삭제되면 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않아 이동하지 말았어야 했다.그것은 페이지 이동이 부적절했다는 것을 의미한다.만약 그 엄청난 양의 페이지 이동들이 부적절했다면, 다른 사람들은 그렇게 좋지 않았다고 말할 수 있는 것은 무엇인가?내가 되돌린 페이지 이동 중에는 삭제 예정 기사()도)도 있었다.
이러한 움직임(이동 요약: "GNG가 적용되지 않는 MfD에서 공증을 테스트하기 위해 AfD의 대상이 되는 메인 스페이스로 이동")과 삭제 지명은 그 자체를 대변한다.
WP는 "그러나 다른 편집자의 선의의 노력으로 좋은 주제를 이끌어내기 위한 노력을 대량으로 취소했다"고 전했다.상식"
나는 10/250 (이동율의 5% 미만) "대량 취소"를 고려하지는 않을 것이다.필자는 이 조치들을 요약하면서 "이 기사는 핵심 콘텐츠 정책의 일부에 대한 언급이 부족하고, 따라서 기사 네임스페이스로 옮겨질 수 있는 기준을 충족하지 못한다"고 이유를 밝혔다.WP:COMMonsense는 WP의 일부분이다.IAR?규칙을 무시하는게 아니야
페이지 이동의 약 10%가 삭제되는 결과를 초래했고, MfD의 기준이 싫어서 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 페이지를 옮긴 후 AfD에서 삭제할 페이지를 지명했다는 사실(내 계산으로는 올해까지 약 20페이지가 삭제되어 메인 스페이스로 이동했다.) 10% 정도 되는 겁니다. 움직임(이동 요약: "GNG가 적용되지 않는 MfD에서 공증력 테스트를 위해 AfD의 대상이 되는 메인 스페이스로 이동-GNG가 적용되지 않는 주장은 너무 성가시다")과 삭제 지명)은 당신의 행동이 선의였는지 의문을 제기한다.
그는 "만약 그들이 페이지를 정말 좋아하지 않는다면, AfD로 가져가라, 고치기 쉽지 않은 방법으로 몰래 삭제하지 말라"고 말했다.
나는 그 페이지를 좋아하지도 않고 싫어하지도 않는다. 그리고 그것은 AfD에게 무언가를 가져가야 할 이유가 아니다.즉, 페이지가 AfD로 합리적으로 이동될수 있는 상태라면, 페이지가 적절하지 않은 경우(즉, 핵심 내용 정책을 충족하지 않는 한)페이지를 이동해서는 안 되기 때문에 페이지 이동이 부적절하다는 것이다.따라서 페이지 이동은 되돌려야 하며 삭제를 모색할 적절한 포럼은 MfD가 될 것이다.나는 "스틸스 삭제" 페이지를 한 것이 아니라, 페이지 이동 몇 개를 되돌렸다.
그러니 이 실마리를 읽는 자들에게 부탁해서라도 자네의 진술은 최소한 알맹이 있게 받아들이도록 하겠네, 여기서 자네의 거짓에 대해서는 더 이상 대답하지 않을게.godsy(TALKCONT) 02:41, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Ffs, Legacypac(토크 · 기여)이면 충분하다.네 헛소리는 이제 그만해나는 진심으로 너에게 ArbCom 사건 의뢰서를 작성해 주길 바라지만, 너를 반대할 배짱이 있는 다른 사람들에 대한 복수 스레드는 그만 두어라.Forever and everymore thine. --QEDK (TC) 05:45, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 좋아, 레거시팩에 반대하는 사람들을 위해, 다음 단계는 무엇인가?그냥 여기 뒤로 끌고 와서 고발하는 것 말고도 진짜 계획이 있는 거야?주제 금지 제안, 훈계 제안, 그리고 이제 그 움직임에 대한 대대적인 반전이 있었다.제안된 제재안들 중 실제적인 지지가 없는 것 같아서 우리는 다시 비난을 하는 사람들로 남겨져 있다.물론 나는 협력하거나 조정하거나 공모하거나 다른 일을 했다는 비난을 받았기 때문에 그것 또한 기다릴 것이다.레거시팍이 MFD로 페이지를 가져가면 MFD에서 대량으로 목록을 작성한다고 해서 우리가 다시 "게밍"을 하러 여기 올 수 있을까?그리고 그가 떠나야 한다고 소리 지르고 소리치는 것은 여기서 실질적인 해결책이 아니므로 사람들이 무엇을 해야 하는지 좀 알려주기 바란다.메인 스페이스로 페이지를 옮기는 것은 개념상 괜찮다는 데 모두가 동의하는 것 같은데, 언제가 적절하다고 명시적으로 말하는 정책을 누군가 가리킬 수 있을까? -- Ricky81682 (토크) 06:03, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 메인 스페이스에서 분명히 살아남지 못할 페이지를 옮기는 것은 좋지 않다.그것은, 몇 번이고, 행정관들과 비 행정관들에 의해 모두 지워져 왔다.말할 것도 없이, 여러분과 초안을 삭제하기 위해 NOTWEBHOST를 과대평가하고 있는 몇몇 사람들은, 위키피디아는 실제 정책이 완전히 무언가를 말해줄 때, 데이터 저장의 무기한 장소가 아니다.다시 말하지만, 정책에 반하는 건 그야, 내가 아니라.더구나 이 실타래는 복수를 위한 것일 뿐이었다.말할 필요도 없이, 모두가 그의 무의미한 행적에 싫증이 나서, 그가 옳다고 생각한다면, 그는 천국으로 가는 고속도로를 탈 수 있다. --QEDK (T c C) 06:55, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 당신은 그들이 메인 스페이스에서 살아남지 못할 것이라는 것을 결정하게 되고 그것으로 충분하다고?사용자:Akivah/Yeshivat Rambam Maimonides Academy 페이지는 메인 스페이스에 딱 맞는 스텁처럼 보였다.그리고 나는 사람들이 그것을 한 사람이 싫다고 해서 무조건적으로 사용자 공간으로 물건을 다시 옮길 수 있다는 어떤 정책도 없다고 확신한다.적어도 갓시는 이들을 하나의 AFD로 결합시켜 다른 사람들이 결정할 수 있도록 토론할 수 있었을 것이다.--리키81682 (토크) 07:06, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
@Ricky81682: 내가 이삿짐되돌린 후에 참고자료가 추가된 것을 알고 있지?Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:11, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
좋아, 그 부분에 대해서는 정정할게. -- 리키81682 (토크) 07:27, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
10/10 레거시pac이 애초에 부적합한 초안을 옮긴 사람이기 때문에 이미지를 지우려고 애쓰는 모습. --QEDK (TC) 07:41, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 AfD에 그 페이지들을 나열하지 않았을 것이다. 왜냐하면 내가 부적절한 포럼인 정책과 지침으로부터 도출할 수 있기 때문이다.만약 페이지가 거기에 합리적으로 나열될 수 있다면, 페이지 이동 자체는 부적절하며, 따라서 적절한 포럼은 MfD가 될 것이다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:54, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 다른 사람을 불쾌하게 할 생각은 없지만, 솔직히 말하고 싶다.이것은 본질적으로 합리적으로 종결된 다른 논의를 재개하는 것이다.Legacypac의 움직임에 대한 추론에 반드시 동의하는 것은 아니지만, 논의 없이 Userspace로 다시 이동시키는 것은 분명히 파괴적이며 WP:B일 수도 있다.특히 이전 ANI 토론이 종료된 직후 AT틀그라운드 행동.만약 당신이 백과사전을 싸우고 방해하지 않고서는 정말로 그것을 해결할 수 없다면, 나는 적어도, 여기서 상호 작용 금지나 적어도 관련자들을 위한 자발적인 위키 브레이크가 있어야 한다고 생각한다.아무도 여기서 자기 마음대로 할 수 없더라도, 대범한 계획에서 이것은 정말 대단한 일이 아니라는 것을 깨달아라.이러한 열띤 토론에 참여하는 것은 위키피디아에게 상처를 줄 뿐이다.크리스w80 (대화) 06:29, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @Chrisw80: 나는 문제가 많고 부적절한 몇 가지 동작(약 10/250, 5% 미만)을 되돌렸다.레거시팍은 그들을 대담하게 움직였으므로 나는 분명히 문제가 있는 몇 가지(최악의 예 중 하나)를 되돌리는 것이 타당했다고 생각한다.만약 내가 초선적이거나 집단적으로 하지 않고 그 움직임을 되돌렸다면, 나는 당신의 입장을 이해할 수 있었다.어쨌든, 너는 너의 의견을 들을 권리가 있어.중요한 정보를 가지고 있는지 확인하는 것 뿐이지 모든 토론에서 읽을 것이 많기 때문이다.정중하게,——Godsy(TALKCONT) 06:54, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
@Godsy:그 정보는 중요하고, 그것은 내 의견을 어느 정도 누그러뜨리지만, 물질적으로 바뀌지는 않는다.답장해줘서 고맙고 정보도 고마워.행복을 빌며크리스w80 (토크) 07:05, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그 과감한 조치들은 이전에 논의된 적이 있었고 나는 그 합의는 비난 말고는 논의가 엉뚱하다는 것이었다고 생각한다.이제, 나는 내가 본 문제가 있는 것들을 AFD에 가져갔는데, 그 때문에 그 조치가 실제로 적절한지를 물어봤다는 이유로 결탁했다는 비난을 받았다.그렇다면 결과 (a) 그것들을 그냥 둘 수 없는 것이고 (b) AFD를 통해 메인 스페이스 페이지를 논의할 수 없는 것이고 (c) 할 수 있는 것은 페이지 이동의 일방적 되돌리기뿐인가?그건 해결 방법이 아니야. -- 리키81682 (토크) 07:13, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 그러니까 행정관으로서 일방적 행보는 괜찮다고 하는데 일방적으로 되돌리는 것은 아니라고? --QEDK (TC) 12:43, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @QEDK: 기본적으로 이러한 CSD 기준은 메인 스페이스에 적용되는 것이 아닌가?그게 바로 관리자 역할이다.사용자 지정은 관리자에 의해 이루어지는데, 우리는 일반적으로 사람들이 메인 스페이스 페이지를 일방적으로 가져다가 전혀 논의 없이 강제로 옮기는 것을 허용하지 않는다.특히 지난 ANI 토론에서 아무런 조치도 취하지 않은 상황에서, 이 페이지들이 전혀 논의되지 않고 다양한 사용자 영역으로 다시 이동될 수 있다는 것이 이상해 보인다. -- Ricky81682 (대화) 18:23, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그럼, 그는 대담했네. 네가 문제 없길 바래. 다른 데서도 괜찮았으니까.그리고, 사용자 지정이 비관리자에 의해 수행될 수 없다는 규칙은 없다.당신은 모든 이 아무런 논의도 없이 끝났다는 것을 알고 있는데, 왜 당신은 단지 전체 이야기의 한 측면만을 계속 인용하는 겁니까?관리자로서 당신은 이미 책임을 지고 레거시팩의 복수 실마리를 모두 닫았어야 했는데, 사람들에게 흙을 던지려는 그의 시도(나를 포함해 세 번을 세어봤더니)는 상당히 흥미가 없다. --QEDK (TC) 18:32, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그래, 그건 전에도 주장했었지만, 마지막으로는 아무런 조치도 얻지 못했어.분명 그건 상관없는 일이야 어차피 되돌렸으니까 그리고 지금 우리는 다시 되돌리는 것에 대해 반대편으로 온 거거든우리는 모든 것이 거부된, 금지/채택 금지/주제에 대한 이동 전쟁과 제안들을 하지 않을 것이다.만약 이것이 다시 아무런 조치도 취하지 않는다면, 실제로 누군가 앞으로 나아갈 것인가?이제 제안은 터무니없는 MFD를 모두 중단하거나 똑같이 이상한 프로젝트를 "중단"하는 것이다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 19:59, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]


다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

모든 MFD 일시 중단

여기에는 한 가지 해결책이 있다. 즉, 어떻게 해야 할지에 대한 명확한 합의가 있을 때까지 모든 MFD와 사용자 공간 초안의 이동/삭제를 중지하는 것이다. 107.72.99.115 (대화) 06:08, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답] 추가된 선행 미서명 의견

  • 명백히 우스꽝스러운 것처럼 반대하라.MfD를 중단하는 것 말고도 많은 해결책이 있다.여기서 적당한 타협이 이루어질 수 있다.크리스w80 (대화) 06:19, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP 중단:위키프로젝트 버려진 초안이 더 어울릴 것 같아. --스모키조(토크) 06:25, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
또한 그것은 당면한 문제를 다루지 않을 것이기 때문에 명백히 우스꽝스럽다.우리가 필요로 하는 것은 MfD에서 숙련된 편집자와 관리자에 의한 더 많은 도움이다.크리스w80 (대화) 06:34, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
아니, 크리스w80, 그건 옳지 않아.현재 MfD에는 그 어느 때보다 활발한 참여자가 있다.최근 MfD 전투는 계속되긴 했지만 난장판이었던 만큼 전투 전선을 진보적인 CSDing의 창조적(게이밍) 이슈로, 때로는 IAR에 대한 노골적인 언급으로, 사용자 페이지 초안을 메인 스페이스나 드래프트 스페이스로 일방적인 이동시켰다.많은 조치들이 좋거나 공정한 조치지만, 일부는 그렇지 않고, 활동은 정책 문서화보다 앞서 있다.정책개발을 위해 중단을 건의한다. --스모키조 (대화) 09:50, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
MFD 헤더와 WP는 다음과 같은 사실을 말하고 싶다.UP는 계속 변화하고 있다(UP가 보호되고 있을 정도로) MFD 쇼에서 그 변화들이 알려진 바에 의하면 MFD 쇼에서 "정책 변화"로 사용되고 있다.모든 관련자들이 증거 없이 함께 모의하고 있다고 소리치며 제안서를 만들고 철회한 후 새로운 논의를 위해 이 모든 것을 중단하라고 요구하는 것은 다른 모든 사람들이 금지되거나 너무 좌절될 때까지 지연전술을 만드는 것 같다.실제의 의견 불일치와 대규모의 방해 행위 사이에는 차이가 있다.--리키81682 (대화) 19:59, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 - 득보다 실이 많다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:00, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Facepalm Facepalm Hell no.일단 우리가 MfD 토론 초안을 완전히 확정하게 되면 나는 레거시pac이 그 토론을 방해할 수 있는 지명 행위를 줄일 수 있기를 희망한다.만약 그렇지 않다면 우리는 이전 스레드에서 제안된 MfD 주제 금지 아이디어를 재방문할 수 있다.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 07:41, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]


폐어음 위키프로젝트 중단 및 해산

좋아, 만약 우리가 MFD를 종료하지 않는다면, 다음 해결책은 버려진 MFD 프로젝트를 종료하고 사용자 공간 초안에 관한 모든 MFD 논의를 중단하는 것이다.이렇게 멀리 떨어져 있는 프로젝트는 완전히 제거해야 한다. 107.72.99.115 (대화) 07:18, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 반대: 너무 드라코니안적이다.제안서 논의가 실제로 진행될 때 우리는 MfDs 초안을 그 논의의 보류 기간 동안 일시적으로 중단하는 것에 동의할 수 있지만, 그러한 논의는 그 논의가 중단되는 경우에만 이루어져야 하며, 일시적으로만 지속되어야 한다.버려진 초안 프로젝트는 문제가 아니다.문제는 기사 초안에 대한 명확하고 현실적인 정책 지침이 부족하다는 점이다.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 07:45, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 위키백과 제목 자체에 대한 실제적인 문제를 지적할 수 있는 사람이 있는가?이것은 실제로 문제가 있는 위키프로젝트를 경험하고 있는 사람으로부터 나온 것이다.단지 카테고리:오래된 사용자 공간 초안 및 정적 테이블로 만들기.그 외, 2011년 이후 프로젝트는 기본적으로 중단되었다. -- 리키81682 (토크) 08:25, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
"누구나 위키백과 제목 자체에 대한 실제적인 문제를 지적할 수 있는가?"응. 작고 구체적이야.그것은 목록을 줄이거나 아예 없애기 위해 어떤 조치를 취해야 한다는 암시를 가진 오래된 초안을 많이 열거했다.그것에 대한 의견 일치가 분명히 없다.물론, 열거된 페이지들 중 다수는 G* 기준에 따라 선택할 수 있고, 다른 페이지들은 메인 스페이스로 이동하기에 좋지만, 불명확한 잠재력의 의도된 초안들은 논의되지 않은 조치들을 따르고 있으며, 현재 논란이 되고 있다.적절한 가이드라인을 논의할 시간을 좀 주십시요.해산은 과잉 살상이다.1-2주간의 정지? --스모키죠(토크) —미결 코멘트 작성 09:55, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 아직 거기에 도착하지 않았다.나는 만약 유목민들이 일단 논의를 시작했을 때 흔들리지 않고 계속한다면, 반드시 유목민들에 대한 일시적 모라토리엄을 요구해야 한다고 생각한다.어떤 일이 일어나고 있다는 것이 확실해질 때까지 명목상 중단을 요구하는 것은 시기상조겠지만, 일단 어떤 일이 분명히 일어나면 우리는 MfD의 초안 상장을 목표로 하는 금지에서부터 MfD 과정의 광범위한 중단에 이르기까지 비자발적인 무언가를 요구할 수도 있다는 것이 나의 견해다.리스터들은 적어도 구체적인 논의가 나오기 전에 멈추기를 원하지 않는 것은 정당하다. 왜냐하면 일단 압력이 꺼지면 아무것도 나오지 않을 수 있기 때문이다.그러나, 다시 한번 어떤 것이 등장하면, 제안이 나오고 채택될 때까지 또는 논의가 절망적으로 교착상태에 빠질 때까지 상장을 중단해야 한다.- —/Mendaliv//Δ's 11:59, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
방학이 끝나거나 다른 사람이 할 수 있는 일 후에 할 거야.문제 없어요.아마 지금부터 임시유예를 시작할 수 있을 것 같은데? --QEDK (TC) 12:40, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 문제는 그것이 오래된 사용자 공간 초안 목록을 가지고 있다는 거야?카테고리를 삭제해야 하는가?카테고리의 모든 카테고리:문서 마법사를 통해 작성된 사용자 공간 초안을 삭제하거나 일시 중단하시겠습니까?최고령자 프로젝트는 10년 동안 Arbcom 건으로 인한 혼란이었고, 아무도 그것을 중단하거나 삭제할 생각을 하지 않았다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 18:20, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 공간 초안에는 문제가 없다. 프로젝트 전체를 삭제해야 함 이제 아무도 사용자 공간에서 사람들이 무엇을 했든 신경 쓸 이유가 없다. 그 이후에는 그들의 공간이다! — 앞서 107.72.99.115 (대화) 18:03, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

안 되는 건 어때? -- Ricky81682 (토크) 18:20, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 이것은 명백히 하우스키핑이라고 표시되어 있으므로, 이것에 대해 계속 싸울 필요는 없다.2016년 3월 29일(UTC) 21:09, 스와스터트위스터 토크[응답]
생각 없이 기사를 파괴하는 것은 하우스키핑이 아니다.
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

마감요청

이거 이제 닫아도 돼?나는 아무도 행정관이 이 페이지를 다시 메인 스페이스로 이동시킬 것을 제안하지 않는다고 생각한다. 그리고 나는 여기 있는 그 누구도 실제로 무엇을 해야 하는지에 대한 진지한 제안을 가지고 있다고 생각하지 않는다.모라토리엄에 대한 요구는 사실 공감대가 있는 것 같지 않으며 우리는 QEDK의 휴가가 끝나거나 그 비슷한 상황이 될 때까지 그냥 기다려서는 안 된다.많은 정책들의 변경과 수많은 MFD 논의 또한 진행되어 왔다.무엇을 해야 하는지에 대해서는 분명히 이견이 있지만, 이 모든 혼란과 관계없이, DRV에서 더 이상의 분석을 위해 논의된 바가 없기 때문에, 나는 그 이후의 마무리 작업과 결의는 적어도 싸울 가치가 없다고 생각한다.WT의 RFC를 폐쇄할 사람이 필요해MFD가 해결되고 MFD에 대한 시선이 더 많아지면 도움이 될 것이다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 23:41, 2016년 3월 29일 (UTC)[응답]

집어치워.이거 닫지 마.이 바보같은 5라운드만 계속하자. 그리고 모든 사람들을 계속 공격하도록 하자.다음 제안은 무엇이며, 주변에서 무기한 금지인가? - 리키81682 (대화) 09:53, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[답글]
미안, 내가 장난을 치게 놔두고 있어.사람들이 Legacypac의 페이지 이동물을 부적절하게 WP로 간주한다면 더 이상 할 일이 없기 때문에 이것은 닫힐 수 있는 것처럼 보인다.처음부터 BOLD.나는 우리가 대량으로 일방적인 반전이 이루어지지 않고 대신 페이지마다 토론이 가능하지만 지금은 그런 일이 일어나지 않는 정책을 갖고 싶다.-- 리키81682 (대화) 18:09, 2016년 3월 30 (UTC)[응답]

프로포즈

이 166개 IP는 명백히 트롤이고, 이런 댓글을 남기고 일주일 정도 관리자가 차단할 수 있으면 좋겠다.그들은 리키에게 홀딱 반한 것 같고, 분명히 합리적인 제안을 하고 있지 않다.A2soup (대화) 11:02, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 봐.그 범위는 학대를 위한 자석인 것 같다. -- The Videwalker 20:04, 2016년 3월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
그래, 난 이걸 알아차렸지.나는 누군가가 166' IP의 투표권을 MfD에서 금지된 사용자에 의한 것으로 되돌리는 것을 본 줄 알았다.만약 그렇다면, 금지된 사용자가 누구인지 아는 사람?—/Mendaliv//Δ's 06:25, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 166명의 편집자에게 여러 건의 금지/금지 제안이 있었다고 생각한다.금지 사항 중 하나를 보려면 이것을 보십시오.JJMC89(T·C) 06:48, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
오, 저것 좀 봐.그 토론은 이제 보니 기억이 어렴풋이 난다LTA 페이지 할 시간인지 궁금하다.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 07:44, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

이제 Godsy는 진부한 홍보 기사를 복구하기 위해 노력하고 있다.위키백과:Deletion_review/Log/2016_3월_31#사용자:에이칸트1123.2FChaz_Knapp 이 편집자는 정리를 되돌리는 데 골몰한다.레거시pac (대화) 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC) 17:45 [응답]

공평하게 말하자면, 나는 Godsy가 일리가 있다고 생각한다.여기서 잘못된 방법으로 올바른 결과를 얻었다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 23:39, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
나도 동의해, 이 오래된 초안들은 대부분 처리되어야 하고, 많은 것들이 삭제되어야 하지만, 잘못된 방법이 시행되었어.WP:BRD 원칙이 적용되며, 과감한 구현이 반대되므로, 어떻게 진행해야 하는지에 대한 논의를 중단한다.
또한 166.x.x.x 문제에 대해서도 동의하십시오.그가 리키에게 무슨 반감을 품었는지 모르지만, 그는 관계없는 모든 기회를 리키를 학대하는 데 이용하고 있다.리키는 그처럼 침착함을 유지하기 위해 잘하고 있다, 166.x.x.x는 확실히 아무것도 도와주지 않고 있다. --스모키죠(토크) 23:52, 2016년 3월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
피이, 얼마 전부터 이 트롤에 대한 정보를 수집하고 있었어.내가 AN/ANI에서 수집한 정보 중 일부를 보려면 여기를 참조하십시오. 이 정보는 금지 제안서를 작성하기 위해 사용했었습니다.가장 많은 166개의 트롤은 수개월 동안 리키를 괴롭혀온 트롤이다.몇몇 다른 금지된 사용자들도 그 범위에 있다.모든 호칭을 하고 있는 가장 금지된 사용자는 코크트루트인데, 코크트루트는 리키와 함께 오므라이스를 한 후 변명을 하지 않았다.그 이후 리키와 관련된 실이 있을 때마다 166명의 트롤이 나타나 똥을 휘젓는다.그들의 MO에 익숙하지 않은 편집자들은 선의로 반응하겠지만, 일반적으로, 그들의 블랙마인 (대화) 01:15, 2016년 4월 1일 (UTC)[응답]을 타점으로 삼는 것은 안전하다.

삭제된 문서를 삭제 토론에 대비하여 사용자 공간으로 복원하여 추가 중단

[85]와 [86]을 보십시오. Godsy가 다른 사람의 사용자 공간에 복구를 요청하고 "이젠 콘텐츠를 개선할 계획이 없다"고 말할 정도다.관리자가 오래된 사용자 공간에 넣기를 거부하면 오래 전에 종료된 사용자의 사용자 공간에 페이지를 작성하기 시작함 사용자:Aaaloco/Solitaire_&_Mahjong and User:Trekie9001/Duplekita 이런 익살스러운 농담들이 AfD의 위키백과보다 우선하고 있다.삭제/Solitaire & MahjongWikipedia 관련 기사:삭제/듀플키타 관련 기사 및 MfD 및 RfD의 추가 페이지로 이어질 수 있다.이러한 행동에는 백과사전을 개선하려는 이익이나 시도는 없다.정말 - 이게 어떻게 누구에게 도움이 될까?레거시pac (대화) 22:08, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

블록탈출기
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.
황소, 그건 문제가 아니야문제는 '정리'라는 미명 아래 가장 많은 편집자로부터 문자 그대로 수십 년의 작품을 파괴할 수 있다는 점이다.우리는 이러한 편집자들을 억지로 소외시키지 않도록 비자유 이미지 정책을 과감하게 바꿔야 한다. 107.72.97.194 (대화) 22:23, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 단지 적절한 절차에 따라 삭제하는 것에 이의를 제기하는 것일 뿐이다.나는 리디렉션의 창조를 지지한다: 리디렉션은 사용자들이 이전에 있던 콘텐츠의 공간을 가지고 있는 사용자들이 쉽게 콘텐츠를 찾고 그들이 돌아오는 경우에 작업을 재개할 수 있도록 한다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 22:30, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
복구 요청은 자유지만, 관리자들은 당신이 초안 작업을 하지 않을 거면 왜 그렇게 하는지 계속 추궁할 것이다.당신은 실제로 이것들이 그럴듯한 초안이라고 생각하는가 아니면 이 모든 터무니없는 것이라고 단순히 WP:포인트? 도대체 왜 그 초안을 비활동적인 사용자의 사용자 공간에 다시 넣으려고 하는 거야?스모키 조는 사람들이 그곳에서 그것을 찾는 것이 어쩐지 쉽다고 주장해왔는데, 난 그저 당황스러울 뿐이지만, 어쨌든, 그건 너희 모두에게 달려 있다.6개월 후에, 만약 당신이 그것들을 작업하지 않는다면, 나는 기꺼이 그것들을 삭제하도록 다시 제안할 것이다. 그리고 우리는 여기서 이 모든 복구 요청이 작업복구를 위한 심각한 시도인지 아니면 단지 WP에 대한 논의를 할 수 있다.MFD에서는 아무에게도 납득시키지 못하니 POINT 게임 플레이. -리키81682 (토크) 07:01, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
리키81682, 내가 어디서 " 쉽다"고 주장해 왔는가?저는 기억이 나지 않아요.위키백과 검색엔진을 사용하여 UserSpace를 검색하는 것이 WhatLinks를 사용하는 것처럼 쉽다는 점을 지적한 기억이 있다.메인 스페이스 항목에서 관련 사용자 스페이스 자료를 찾으십시오.
"작업하지 않을 경우 삭제하도록 다시 제안한다."그것은 WP처럼 들린다:당신 쪽에서는 젠더맨십이지 XfD는 정리가 안 돼메인 스페이스 기준에 맞춰 일을 처리해야 할 때 당신은 누구인가?드래프트 연령은 퍼피, 중요한 것은 드래프트가 기사가 될 만한 소질이 있는지 여부. --SmokeyJoe (토크) 00:35, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
@Ricky81682:과정이 내 관심사다.폐업 관리자와의 논의는 삭제 검토의 길을 걷는 단계다.부적절한 삭제는 문제가 되지 않으면 계속 발생할 것이고, 그것은 백과사전에 해가 된다.나는 단지 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 이동하는 많은 의 움직임들 중 최악의 것들을 청소하고 있을 뿐인데, 그 중 일부는 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않았다.최악의 예:사용자:추상적 마인드젠트/그래피키그래피키(요약-"GNG가 적용되지 않는 MfD의 공증 시험 대상인 메인 스페이스로 이동"), 삭제 토론- 위키백과:삭제/Graffiki, 인용에 대한 조항- "사용자들은 GNG가 MfD에서 테스트될 수 없기 때문에 여기에 논의를 위해 가져올 수 있다고 주장한다.") 사용자:Kemdflp/richard D'anjoleRichard D'Anjole (정리 중에 발견된 단일 목적의 acct에서 요약- "Stale 2009 초안" 이동, 삭제 토론- 위키백과:삭제/Richard d'Anjolel인용문-"Several 편집자들은 MfD가 WP를 고려할 수 없다고 주장한다.GNG 그래서 나는 이 글의 장점에 대해 좀 더 폭넓은 논의를 할 수 있도록 페이지를 메인 스페이스로 옮겨 놓았다.) 레거시pac은 이 페이지들을 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 옮긴 다음 삭제하도록 지명했다.그것은 메인 스페이스(즉, 핵심 콘텐츠 정책을 충족시키는 것)에 적합하다고 생각한다면 실행되지 않을 일이다.레거시팍은 또한 내가 제공한 위의 인용문에서 보듯이 그들의 의도는 다른 삭제 포럼의 기준과 지역사회 내의 다른 사람들의 의견을 좌절시키는 것이라고 말했다.그것은 게임맨십이다.그것은 다른 모든 조치들을 문제 삼으며, 부적절한 조치들이 단순히 "적합성"에 대한 서투른 판단이 아니라 승인되지 않은 방식으로 청소하고 삭제하려는 시도였을 수도 있음을 시사한다.이 난장판의 작은 부분을 정리하려는 나의 시도는 용인할 수 있는 행동의 영역 내에 있었다.만약 내가 PIT를 만들고 싶었다면, 나는 모든 동작을 일괄적으로 되돌렸을 것이다. 그것은 내가 BRD당 할 수 있는 권리 내에 있었을 것이다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 08:03, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
@godsy: 그렇다면 이것은 초안이 실행 가능한지 아닌 WP:BURO에 관한 모든 것? 글쎄, 나는 그것을 복원한 두 행정관에게 AFD가 부적절했기 때문에 복원하거나 초안을 앞당기기 위한 목적으로 원상복구하는, 그들이 생각하고 있는 것에 대해 여기서 의견을 표명할 수 있는지 물어보았다.둘 다 원래 위치로 복원하지 않고 대신 드래프트 스페이스에 넣었다는 사실은 후자일 가능성이 더 높았다는 것을 의미한다.--리키81682(토크) 09:28, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
@Ricky81682:좋습니다.사용자 토크에서 내가 요청한 이면에 있는 추리는 매우 명확했다.Imblanter#Duplekita사용자 대화:미치그#솔리타이어 & 마작.나는 심지어 바로 이 주제에 대해 문의한 후 두 관리자 중 한 명에게 "이 때 나는 내용을 개선할 계획이 없다. 페이지를 삭제한 후 이 상황에 직면했기 때문에 나는 페이지를 실제로 본 적이 없다."라고 말하기까지 했다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 09:40, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
@Ricky81682:정말? 중립적인 방식으로 의견을 묻는 것도 한 가지겠지만, 그렇게 하는 것은 부적절해.Godsy(TALKCONT) 09:58, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
@Godsy: 문제는 그 페이지들의 복원이다.행정관들이 복구했을 때 가졌던 생각이 적절했다고 생각한다.그것은 걱정이다. 왜냐하면 그 페이지들이 다시 MFD로 돌아왔고, 그 페이지들을 보관해야 하는 것이 아니라, 실제적인 과정에서의 괴리감뿐이라는 것이 명백하기 때문이다.내가 아래에 언급했듯이, 레거시pac은 CSD를 통해 삭제된 많은 페이지 이동도 수행했다.만약 당신이 그 모든 것을 선의로 되돌리는 것에 대해 진지하게 생각한다면, 만약 당신이 AFD 반전의 근거를 정당화할 것을 제안하고 싶다. 만약 당신이 그것들 또한 복원되어야 한다고 주장하기를 원한다면.CSD 삭제뿐만 아니라 이러한 AFD 삭제에도 동일한 "과정이 관련됨" 또는 "논의되지 않음"이 적용되며 CSD 삭제는 CSD가 복원되지 않았기 때문에 삭제되어야 한다고 주장한다(또한 요청자가 있음).도망칠 수 있는 것에 과감하게 대처하는 것은 상황을 반전시키기 위한 승인을 받는 것과 같지 않다.--리키81682 (대화) 20:28, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답하라]
@Ricky81682: 나는 이미 비일반적인 신속 삭제에 대해 삭제하지 말 것을 요청했고, 그것들은 위키피디아:삭제 취소 요청#유니시티 프로덕션, 플레이 잇 스트레인지 트러스트, 해킹 앤 스맥 셀럽...당신은 어떤 이유로든 내 행동이 마음에 들지 않을 수도 있지만, 당신은 아직 그것이 부적절했다는 어떤 증거도 제시하지 못하고 있다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 22:02, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

다시 한번 날 공격하다니!내가 반달이라는 것을 증명할 수 없다면 편집자 한 명이 편집한 내용을 되돌리는 것은 너의 권리에 맞지 않는다.그 프로젝트에 쓰레기를 다시 넣는 것은 청소라고 불리지 않는다.레거시pac (대화) 08:22, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

나는 솔리테어 & 마작 기사를 공간 초안용으로 복원했다. 왜냐하면 Godsy가 개선과 관련하여 "내용이 복원되면 반드시 검토하겠다"고 말했기 때문이다.AfD는 충분히 명확했고, 초안 복원은 AfD에서 확인된 문제, 즉 공증권을 다루려는 시도를 허용하기 위한 것이었다.4년 넘게 활동하지 않아 원편집자의 사용자 공간으로 복구하지 않았다.기사 문제가 처리되지 않을 것이 명백해지면 초안을 삭제할 수 있다. --Michig (대화) 09:43, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

누군가 작업하고 있을 것을 양해하여 네임스페이스를 드래프트 네임스페이스로 복원했다.--Ymblanter (대화) 10:13, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
@YmblanterMichig: 계속 진행해서 미안하지만, 초안공간의 두 페이지 모두 MFD에서 새로 만든 기존 사용자공간 페이지에서 새로운 초안으로 리디렉션된다.여기서 어떻게 진행해야 할지 잘 모르겠지만, 나는 더 많은 선의의 움직임(이러한 믿음들에 대해 나중에 논쟁한다), 삭제될 수 있고, 만약 모든 우려가 과정 원커리에 관한 것일 경우 실제 내용이 유용한지 아닌지에 대해 어떤 최종적인 것이 있는지 여부에 대해 더 걱정된다.또한 Regacpac은 CSD를 통해 삭제된 페이지 이동 수가 많았는데, 이러한 페이지 이동은 존재하지 않는 관리 도구를 탐지하기가 더 어려울 것이다.나는 이것이 공정 논쟁에 근거하여 복원되어야 할지 말아야 할지 잘 모르겠다.위키백과에 없음:삭제/초안용 미스셀라니:Solitaire & Mahjong 또는 Wikipedia:삭제/초안용 미스셀라니:두플레키타는 그 내용이 유지되어야 하는지에 대해 논의한다.이 문제에 대해 RFC를 제안하고 싶지만 WP 대신 복구와 복구에 대한 더 자세한 내용을 넣는 것 이상이 필요한지는 잘 모르겠다.토론 중. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 20:28, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

유세

레거시pac은 이 토론을 언급하면서 선거운동을 하고 있다.

이들의 부적절한 행동에만 관심이 쏠릴 가능성이 높지만 여전히 어설프다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 22:23, 2016년 4월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 나는 이 논쟁이 질질 끌면서 레거시팩의 행동에 점점 감명을 덜 받고 있다.이것은 게시판에 정해야 할 문제가 아니라 추론과 타협으로 해결할 문제다.문제의 일부는 우리가 아직 옴니버스 초안 제안서를 가지고 있지 않다는 것을 알고 있지만, 이봐.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 02:27, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 그래, 어떤 사람들은 잘못된 방법으로 올바른 결과를 얻는 방법을 알고 있어. -- 리키81682 (토크) 06:28, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 단지 몇 번이나 ANI에게 끌려다니고, 나에게 허위의 비난과 협박을 퍼붓고, 계속적인 나쁜 믿음의 모욕과 가정을 하는 것에 정말 지칠 뿐이다.나는 백과사전을 개선하는 데만 관심이 있고 다양한 무작위 주제에 대해 배우는 것을 즐긴다.소수의 편집자 집단의 위선과 게임 플레이는 통제 불능이 되어버렸고, 그래서 나는 그들이 선택한 장소에서 반격했다.나는 이 모든 실들이 닫히고 그 프로젝트를 개선해 나가는 것을 보게 되어 기쁘다.레거시pac (대화) 06:43, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
다른 사용자의 기존 작업영역 초안을 삭제하는 것은 Encylopedia를 개선하는 것이 아니다.MfD에 보관되어 있거나 사용자 공간에 보관할 가치가 있는 페이지를 준비되지 않은 메인 스페이스로 이동시킴으로써 프로젝트 프로세스에 대한 경멸을 보여주는 것은 편집 작업을 수집하는 데 파괴적이다.CSD 후보 등록을 공개적으로 기록하도록 선호도를 조정했는가? --SmokeyJoe (토크) 01:24, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WP 지우기:탐문수사. 그리고 oecd는 아직 행정처분을 정당화할 만큼 충분한 조치를 취하지 않았다. --QEDK (TC) 12:56, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자에 의한 개인 공격:레거시팩

  • Facepalm 페이스팜 우리 모두 잠시 MfD 신규 지명자들로부터 휴식을 취할 수 있을까?레거시팩?부탁드려도 될까요?맹세컨대, 우리가 함께 일할 수 있다면 이 좌절감은 사라질 수 있어.그 퀴퀴한 초안들은 지난 몇 년 동안 아무데도 가지 않았다.—/Mendaliv//Δ's 09:08, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 사실 며칠 동안 모든 퀴퀴한 징병 작업을 중단했고 Godsy는 그것들을 복구하기 시작했다.위의 인용문은 내가 [87]에 응답하고 있었던 그의 논평의 맥락에서 취해져야 한다.레거시pac (대화) 15:20, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 레거시pac은 위의 항에서 "백과사전을 개선하는데만 관심이 있다"고 언급하였다.레거시pac의 키보드에서 여러 편집자들이 자주 경험하는 거의 지속적인 인신공격은 그렇지 않다고 말한다.나 자신, 나는 지금 몇 달째 그의 무뚝뚝하고 무례하고 전혀 미개한 발언을 참아 오고 있다(물어보면 같은 것에 대한 차이점을 제공할 수 있지만, 좀 파헤쳐야 할 것이다).가장 최근의 예는 다음과 같다.
나를 언급하며 LP는 "내가 몇 달 동안 관찰해온 괴롭힘으로부터 마라노팬에게 휴식을 줄 수 있는 최소한의 조치"라고 말했다.그의 혐의를 뒷받침할 만한 것도 없고 인신공격일 뿐이지여기서부터 계속된다: "체스 WV는 본질적으로 엉덩이에 결합되어 있다. 한 쪽이 다른 한 쪽 양말이 아닌가 하는 생각이 들 정도다.다시 말하지만, 그런 강력한 주장을 뒷받침할 만한 것은 아무것도 없지만, 그저 뜬금없이 나는 다른 편집자의 양말장이다.어처구니없다.이어 "WV의 고기 인형들이 자신들이 반대하는 편집자를 공격하려는 또 다른 시도일 뿐"이라며 근거 없는 주장과 비난을 이어갔다.
다시 나를 언급하면서, "WV는 단방향 상호 작용 금지를 좋아한다."그의 주장을 뒷받침할 만한 것은 아직 아무것도 없다.그것은 또 다른 노골적이고 부당한 공격이다.
LP 토크 페이지 : "WV가 좋아하지 않는 사람은 누구나 오픈 시즌인 것 같고, 그의 피해자들은 관리자로부터 더 많은 학대를 받는다. 그의 피해자들이 해러서 맞서기만 하는데 어떻게 '해러스트먼트'를 외칠 수 있겠소.증거는 없고 단지 비난만 하고 있다.이것은 여기에서 발견된 그의 토크 페이지에는 줄무늬가 있다.
2016년 2월 레거시pac에 대해 제기된 예의 AN/I 불만사항에서 나는 몇 가지 논평을 통해 답변했다.레거시팩은 나의 발언에 대한 보복으로 보였으며, 그 후 나에 대한 하위섹션을 시작했다.확실히 위키백과에서 경험했던 더 이상한 순간들 중 하나이지만 레거시팩의 부분을 주의를 돌리고 비껴가려는 확실한 시도였다.거기서 상당한 증거와 토론이 이루어졌는데, 레거시팍의 반응은 대부분 더 야만적인 행동이었다(내가 그에게서 본 최악의 행동은 아니었지만).AN/I는 아무런 조치도 취하지 않아 체드에 의해 폐쇄되었지만, 체드는 다음과 같은 경고를 했다: "이 시점(그리고 늦은 시점)에는 어떠한 행정 조치도 취해지지 않을 것이다. 모든 참가자는 말하기 전에 생각하고 페이지 저장을 클릭하기 전에 복습해야 한다. 여러분 모두는 부메랑과 모든 사람들이 이제 더 나은 행동이 기대된다는 사실을 알아야 한다. — Ched : ? ? 07:12, 2016년 2월 11일 (UTC)" 보고서는 여기서 볼 수 있다.
첫째로, 나는 그의 나약한 태도가 비관리자 편집자 이외의 누구에게도 구애받지 않고 계속 되는 것을 보는 것에 질렸다.관리자가 이것을 눈치채고 LP에서 지속적인 인상을 줄 수 있는 을 진지하게 고려하기를 바란다.그 공동체는 그가 규칙적으로 행하는 무례한 대우를 받을 자격이 없다.진짜로 우리 모두 언제까지 이런 행동을 참아야 하는 거야? -- WV 03:29, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
필자는 앞서 언급한 양말퍼플이라는 비난을 받아온 사용자로, LP의 인신공격은 제재가 제대로 된 단계에 이르렀다는 데 동의한다.LP는 과거에 그를 괴롭힌 혐의로 고발한 적이 있으며, 간신히 ISIL 주제 금지를 면했다.이것은 단순히 그가 친절한 편집자가 아니라는 것뿐만 아니라 그가 말한 다른 모든 것들도 이 논평 위의 윙켈비의 보고서에 아주 잘 요약되어 있다는 것을 보여준다. --Ches(토크) 09:18, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
놀라지 마. --QEDK (TC) 12:58, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 그러나 나는 지금 어떤 판단을 내릴 만큼 적극적이지 않다.나 또한 그 연구를 할 자격이 없다.모두에게 최선이다.Ched : ?? 15:31, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아이러니 - 레거시pac은 사용자들의 인신공격(예: 삭제 검토 4월 3일)과 불성실성(위의 인용문)을 고발하는 패턴에 있는 것처럼 보이는데, 실제로 그러한 행동에 관여하는 사용자들은 (위와 같이) 사실상의 진술과 합리적인 논평만을 하고 있다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 22:52, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
  • WV의 명성은 그의 게시물을 웃기게 만든다.현재 WV의 토크 페이지(즉, 1방향 상호 작용 금지)에서 금지된 편집자는 몇 명인가?체스의 WV와의 연관성은 명백하며, 내가 인용한 코멘트와 같은 맥락에서 다른 사람들에 의해 언급된다.허튼소리도 친다.예를 들어, 나는 심지어 ISIL 주제 금지에 근접해 본 적이 없고, ISIL 주제의 주요 기고자이며 일부 하위 기고자를 만든 사람이다.나는 WV와 그의 미트푸펫이 짧은 부두에서 멀리 떨어져 산책하는 것을 제안한다. 그리고 그것이 내가 오늘 그것들에 숨을 돌리고 싶은 전부다.레거시pac (대화) 04:50, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 인신공격 행태에 대한 하위섹션 내의 인신공격.믿을 수 없다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 05:01, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

사용자 공간에서 레거시pac 금지 항목

WP:DENY
다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.

그는 "레거시pac의 AFD 지명은 모두 번복됐고 CSD 삭제도 복원됐다.레거시pac의 익살스러운 어떤 것에 대한 ZERO 지원이 있다는 것은 분명하고 주제 금지는 Godsy가 이 모든 편집자들을 소외시키는 것으로부터 우리를 구하는데 더 많은 시간을 낭비하지 않도록 할 수 있는 유일한 것이다.레거시pac의 AFD 지명은 모두 번복되었고 CSD 삭제도 복원되었다.레거시pac의 익살스러운 어떤 것에 대한 ZERO 지원이 있다는 것은 분명하고 주제 금지는 Godsy가 이 모든 편집자들을 소외시키는 것으로부터 우리를 구하는데 더 많은 시간을 낭비하지 않도록 할 수 있는 유일한 것이다.'— 166.176.58.193 (대화 기여) 23:55, 2016년 4월 3일 (UTC)에 의해 추가서명되지 않은 이전 의견'—신뢰를 가정한 경우,— 2016년(TALKCONT) 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 지지하다.레거시팩이 기사가 될 수도 있지만 메인 스페이스에 준비되지 않은 훌륭한 초안인 사용자 페이지 초안을 메인 스페이스로 무모하게 옮기는 것은 파괴적이다.낡은 초안을 어떻게 할 것인가에 대한 공감대가 분명히 부족하다.그 결정은 이항성이 아니며, 따라서 합의된 의사결정 과정은 모든 사람이 받아들일 수 있는 과정을 찾는 데 더 많은 시간과 노력이 필요하다.레거시팩이 대담한 동태 비판의 고의적인 지속은 합의의 과정과 배치된다.
적어도 레거시pac은 다른 사람의 사용자 페이지를 이동하거나 삭제하기 위한 모든 조치를 기록하기로 약속해야 한다. --SmokeyJoe (토크) 01:21, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
"동의함 - 보관할 경우 메인 스페이스에서 시험한다.우리는 잠재력이 없는 물건을 보관하지 않으니, 그에 따라 투표하십시오.레거시pac (대화) 04:39, 2016년 3월 25일 (UTC)" MfD에서 표현된 이러한 태도는 전투적이며 WP:게이밍(GAMIGING), 그리고 거절할 필요가 있다.최악의 경우 프로세스를 남용하고 합의를 무시하는 것이며, 기껏해야 XfD를 사용하여 다른 편집자가 짧은 시간 내에 문제를 해결할 수 있도록 허용하는 정책 변경이다.도전하는 주제가 잠재력이 없다는 것에 이의를 제기하지만, 확실히 메인 스페이스를 위한 준비가 되어 있지 않다. --스모키조 (토크) 02:46, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

참고 - 166.176.58.193 IP는 회피 편집자에 의한 166개 IP 계열의 최신 IP에 불과하다.굿데이 (토크) 01:21, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

그리고 그렇게 막혔다.HighInBC 02:13, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]

MFD/도안/행동 및 행동 등

Arbcom에 집단 관심사를 가져갈 것을 추천한다.지역사회가 여기서 이러한 불만을 해결할 수 있을 것 같지 않다.굿데이 (토크) 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC) 17:56 [응답]

  • 그걸 지지하고 싶어. -- 리키81682 (대화) 21:37, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • Legacypac의 경고인 추구된 조치는 이미 그의 토크 페이지에서 User_talk에서 직접적으로 일어났다.레거시pac#Moving_unitable_drafts_to_mainspace는 물론 제거된 스레드를 포함한 다른 스레드에서도 사용 가능.관리자 중 이 경고나 기타 경고에 동의하지 않은 사람이 있는가?더 중요한 것은, "유저공명성 테스트"나 "MfD에서의 성공" 때문에, 사용자 공간에 대한 나쁜 믿음의 움직임이 여전히 일어나고 있는가? --SmokeyJoe (토크) 22:51, 2016년 4월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
아무도 거치지 않고 나쁜 믿음의 움직임이 일어나고 있는지 알 길이 없지만(쉽게 허세를 부릴 수 있다) 그가 물건을 옮기고 있는 속도라면 누가 할 수 있을지 의심스럽다. --QEDK (TC) 03:22, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이것 좀 봐: [88] 초안을 삭제하는 것은 내가 본 가장 교활한 방법 중 하나야.의도적으로 저자의 메시지를 잘못 해석하여 AfC에 게시. --QEDK (T t C) 03:22, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
"Draft 이것은 내가 제안한 Attasy 기사야. 검토 후 의견/제시를 제공하십시오. 고마워 :) 로니"는 확실히 이 기사를 보내서 검토와 의견/제의를 해달라는 부탁처럼 들리는데, 실제로 그런 절차가 있다.레거시pac (대화) 05:12, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
정말 지옥 같군, 그렇지 않아?결국 버려진 것으로 삭제될 것을 알면서도 AfC에 무언가를 지명하려는 이유는. --QEDK (T C) 06:28, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아니, 여기서 해결하자제발드레이미스 (토크) 01:07, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 전체 삭제 과정을 ArbCom에 보내는 것은 말도 안 되지만 솔직히 지금 시점에서 해야 할 일이라고 생각한다.우리는 WP로의 변경에 대해서도 동의할 수 없다.UP는 언제 사용자 공간을 이동하는 것이 적절한지에 대한 상식적인 지침을 제공한다.절충안을 제시하려고 했지만 한쪽에서는 LP의 움직임에 대응하는 정책에 어떤 것도 포함시키는 것이 부적절하다고 생각하고, 다른 한쪽에서는 유저 스페이스 드래프트의 움직임을 절대로 허용해 주는 것이 부적절하다고 생각하고 있다.나는 그 합의에 이르지 못한 것에 대해 행정관들이 어떻게 할 수 있는지 모르겠다.우리는 현재 시스템이 작동하지 않는다는 것에 모두 동의한다.즉시 삭제와 무기한 유지에 대한 논쟁이 MfD 전체에서 벌어지고 있으며, 그것은 완전히 지속가능하지 않다.~ 롭 01:14, 2016년Talk 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

내가 Arbcom을 제안한 이유는 몇몇 편집자들이 이 복잡한 이슈에 대해 서로의 행동과 행동에 대해 우려를 제기하고 있기 때문이다.아까 어디선가 언급했듯이, 경기장에 다시 나가기 전에 경기의 규칙이 무엇인지 결정해야 할 것이다.대혼란은 일반적으로 대혼란을 초래한다.굿데이 (토크) 2016년 4월 7일 18:41, (UTC)[응답]

레거시pac의 부적절한 이동 계속

레거시pac에 의한 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로의 부적절한 이동이 계속 일어나고 있다.나는 분명히 메인 스페이스에 맞지 않는 동작되뇌었다.또 다른 최근의 움직임삭제 후보로 지명되었다.특수:로그/레거시pac.Godsy(TALKCONT) 07:49, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

솔직히 말하면, 왕동마는 삭제될 가능성이 있다.Weng Songma는 현재 그곳의 리디렉션이고 페이지가 User:로 다시 이동되었다.삭제 대상인 페이지의 이전 버전인 것처럼 보여도 팝블랙.그게 더 나은 건 아니지만 적어도 정확하게 하자.초안은 AFD가 삭제를 지원할 경우 MFD 후 삭제 대상이 될 수 있다. -- Ricky81682 (토크) 08:58, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않다고 하는 초안은 19개의 참고 문헌과 위키백과 기사 및 기타 링크가 있는 갤러리의 전시 목록으로 꽤 좋아 보인다.그것은 사실 메인 스페이스 버전보다 더 길고 좋다.이름에 대한 철자 변화(번역되는 것을 보면 그럴듯함)는 2010년 [89] 이후 6년 동안 AfD'd가 아니었고 여러 편집자들이 작업해 온 다른 비슷한 기사를 놓치게 했다.분명히 우리는 같은 아티스트에 대해 두 페이지가 필요하지 않지만, 간단한 해결책은 한 페이지를 다른 페이지와 병합/재연결하는 것이지, ANi에 와서 내가 세상을 파괴하려는 것처럼 보이게 하는 것이 아니다.나는 분명히 그 페이지를 삭제하기 위해 메인 스페이스로 옮기지 않았다. 그것은 너의 끊임없는 비난이다.레거시pac (대화) 15:47, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]

대기하는 해는 다른 편집자 덕분에 이미 메인 스페이스로 돌아왔다- 이 소설은 중요한 소설이다- "엔치는 대기하는 해들을 쓰는데 8년이 넘게 걸렸고, 그것 때문에 그녀는 일본 최고의 문학상을 받았다- 그렇게 눈에 띄는 사회적 평론을 가진 소설로는 작은 위업도 없다."[ http://michellebailatjones.com/2008/09/23/enchi-fumiko-the-waiting-years/] (부)k 리뷰) "1958년에 출간된 노마문학상 수상소설이 일본 페미니즘의 반쪽 표시다."(일본타임스 서평) [90] - 삭제를 위해 메인스페이스에 쓰레기를 보내는 것이 아니라 - 이것들은 주목할 만한 주제들이다.레거시pac (대화) 03:40, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]

제안:레거시pac에 대한 임시 제한

그만하면 충분하다.Legacypac, 나는 당신이 하고 있는 많은 유목민들과 움직임들이 위키백과에 속하지 않는 초안/사용자 페이지를 없애기 위한 것이라는 것에 동의하지만, 나는 우리가 초안 제안서 초안 작성을 시도할 수 있도록 잠시 뒤로 돌려달라고 부탁했다.처음에 나는 당신이 하는 압박감이 당신을 반대하는 사람들을 자극하여 무언가를 제안하도록 서두르게 할 것이라고 생각했지만, 여전히 그런 일은 일어나지 않았다.너의 계속되는 행동이 진전을 가로막고 있는 것 같다.이와 같이, 나는 다음과 같이 제안한다.

레거시pac은 새로운 MfDs를 여는 것, U5용 페이지를 지명하는 것, 사용자 공간이나 드래프트 스페이스에서 메인 스페이스로 페이지(자신이 아닌 페이지)를 옮기는 것, AfC 배너를 어떤 페이지에 추가하는 것 등을 1개월간 금지하고 있다.이 금지의 목적은 관심 있는 편집자들이 기사 초안을 다룰 계획을 개발할 수 있도록 하는 것이다.

나는 이 논쟁의 배후를 깰 다른 방법이 없다고 본다. 그래서 그것은 중재보다는 정책 논의로 갈 수 있다.내가 레거시팩의 어깨에 이걸 씌우는 것처럼 보이는 건 알지만, 연기가 나는 곳엔 불이 있어.우리는 레거시팩을 ANI로 복귀시키는 것 에 레거시팩의 행동에 반대하는 모든 사람이 필요하다.그렇게 하는 올바른 방법은 이것을 뿌리째 잘라내는 겁니다.

  • 제안자로서의 지원.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 08:37, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 - 내게는 좋은 예방책처럼 보인다. --체 (대화) 09:03, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 의 "ANI에서 편집자의 지속적인 괴롭힘과 수많은 인신공격" 스레드를 기다리는 지원. --QEDK (T 10 C) 10:58, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Legacypac반대하는 것은 WP를 희석시키는 점점 커지는 비행선 더미에 빛을 비춰준 것에 감사해야 한다.NOTWEBHOST 및 유용할 수 있는 초안을 숨긴다.쓰레기를 치우는 것은 삶의 정상적인 부분이며, 아이라이크유즈리스드래프트스에 기반한 장벽을 세우는 것은 도움이 되지 않는다.조누니크 (대화) 11시 49분, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 당신의 의견에 동의하지 않지만 그의 행위는 옳든 그르든 간에 공동체가 낡은 초안을 다루는데 필요한 정책 변화를 제안하고 토론할 수 없을 정도로 분열이 증명되었다.우리 얘기 좀 할 수 있게 그만둬야 해그는 그만두라는 요청을 받았다.그는 멈추지 않았다.제안된 제한조치는 의도적으로 짧고 의도적으로 쓰여있기 때문에 그것의 전체 목적은 모든 사람들이 끝없는 초안 지명자들이 아니라 느리게 정책을 위해 일하도록 하는 것이 분명하다.이것은 제재가 아니라 일시적인 제한이기 때문에 으로 나아갈 수 있다.여기서 당신의 주장은, "크루프트 더미"가 WP를 희석시킨다는 것이다.NOTWEBHOST"는 정확히 정책 토론 중에 만들어져야 하는 종류의 주장이다.여기서 만들어서는 안 되며, 끝없이 이어지는 새로운 MfDs에서 반복해서 만들어서는 안 된다.—/Mendaliv///Δ's 12:02, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
만약 당신이 모든 하위 조항 품질 사용자 공간 초안이 쓰레기라고 생각한다면, 당신은 당신의 제안을 틀에 박고, 그것에 근거하여 반대한다. --QEDK (TC) 12:19, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대한다 나는 오직 조누니크에게만 동의한다.SQLQuery me! 12:22, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대. 너무 멀리. NOTWEBHOST 위반은 삭제하거나 비워두면 안 된다.우리는 CSD#U5를 만들어 가장 명백한 최악의 사례들을 다루었고, 그들의 삭제는 논란의 여지가 없다.관리자는 CSD 지명을 신청하는 경우에만 수락하도록 유의해야 한다.레거시팩이 하는 일은 대부분 좋은 것이다.그는 단지 의심스럽거나 부적절한 페이지를 메인 스페이스로 옮기지 않도록 주의할 필요가 있다. 특히 MfD를 중심으로 한 엔드런이 목적인 경우. NB 이 페이지 이동은 NOTWEBOST 위반 페이지와는 아무 상관이 없다. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:20, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 나는 실제로 정책 개발을 허용하기 위해 며칠간 편집을 중단했지만 ILICUSElessDRAFTS(위대한 이름) 군중들은 정책 작업을 하지 않았다.대신 그들은 관리자와 DRV에 대한 요청을 통해 삭제된 쓸모없는 초안을 복구하고, 메인에서 사용자 공간으로 이동하며, ANi와 다른 곳에서 나의 선의의 정화 노력에 대한 터무니없는 공격을 조립하느라 바빴다.WP를 읽어보는 것도 좋을 것 같다.NOTNTORIER 및 특히 "특정 프로세스에 집중:이용자는 ...에 대해 ...을 삭제하도록 지명하는 데 관심이 있을 수 있다.이것들은 백과사전을 간접적으로 개선하는 필수적인 활동들이다.수만 명의 사용자가 일괄적으로 편집할 수 있도록 하려면 많은 "막후" 프로세스와 활동이 필수적이다....위키백과에 속하지 않는 기사도 있다." 내 활동이나 삭제 과정(제안된 바와 같이)의 사용이나 움직임에 제약을 가했다면, 삭제되지 않은 문서나 오래된 초안에 대한 작업을 취소하려는 다른 노력에 대해서도 비슷한 제약을 가해야 한다.나는 ILICUSElessDrafts 군중들이 "무한하게" 사용자 공간에 부적절한 자료를 유지한다는 그들의 정해진 목표를 충족시키는 정책 승인을 받는 것은 불가능할 것이라고 믿는다.레거시pac (대화) 16:01, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
여기 나의 이동 로그 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Legacypac 레거시pac (대화) 03:30, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 멘달리브의 위 진술에 따른 지지자: "그는 우리가 대화할 수 있도록 멈춰야 한다. 그는 그만두라는 요청을 받았다. 그는 멈추지 않았다. 제안된 제한조치는 의도적으로 짧고 의도적으로 쓰여있기 때문에 그것의 전체 목적은 모든 사람들이 끝없는 초안 지명자들이 아니라 느리게 정책을 위해 일하도록 하는 것이 분명하다. 이는 제재가 아니라 일시적 제한이기 때문에 앞으로 나아갈 수 있다고 말했다.나는 단지 이 제안이 LP를 위한 일시적인 행동 "정지"이고 생산적인 토론을 자극하기 위한 것이라는 이유 때문에 이 제안을 지지한다.위키피디아에는 마감일이 없기 때문에, 이런 종류의 일을 하는 LP에서 한 달만 쉬면 아무 해가 없고 (희망스럽게도) 많은 도움이 된다. -- WV ● ● 17:29, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 명목상의 조언에 따라 레거시팍에게 단지 서투른 캠페인을 강행하지 말고 토론하도록 요구하는 것과 더불어 사회에 쓸모없는 초안에 대한 쓸모없는 알파벳 수프를 던지는 것.나는 WP를 읽었다.아이라이크유즈리스드래프트스, 레거시팩의 행동을 설명해줄 만한 말은 없고(그리고 다른 말은 하지 않는다), 나는 쓰지 않기로 했다.레거시팩이 쓰길 원한다면 그건 그들의 특권이다.한편, 나는 레거시pac이 파괴적이라는 것에 동의하며, 중간 제한을 권고한다.로버트 맥클레논 (대화) 2016년 4월 5일 19:47 (UTC)[응답]
  • 로버트 맥클레논과 윙켈비에게 지지한다.부적절한 삭제로 인해 발생하는 해악과 나쁜 움직임으로 인해 다른 사람들이 정리할 수 있도록 만들어지는 일은 합리적인 움직임의 이익을 능가한다.이것은 어떤 식으로든 다뤄질 필요가 있고, 멘달리브의 제안은 타당해 보인다. 하지만 나는 이것이 문제를 앞으로 나아가게 할 것이라고 걱정한다.레거시pac이 여러 포럼(예: [91] [92])을 통해 주장한 것에도 불구하고, 내가 이들에 대해 "보호"를 지지한 것은 이번이 처음이지만, 지금에야 합리적으로 그렇게 주장할 수 있었다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 20:13, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
왜 Godsy는 유명한 소설의 페이지를 Userspace로 다시 이동시키는가?[93] 바다빛의 클레어?페이지가 이미 올바르게 참조될 수 있는 기회를 제공하십시오.레거시pac (대화)20:46, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
내가 이동 요약에서 표현했던 대로 참조되기 전까지는 메인 스페이스에 적합하지 않다(즉, 핵심 콘텐츠 정책을 충족한다).Godsy(TALKCONT) 21:25, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
V는 반드시 참고자료가 있어야 한다고 말하지 않는다.프로젝트의 모든 페이지를 메인 스페이스 밖으로 옮기거나, 아니면 내 이동만 번복하는 것을 지지하시겠습니까?레거시pac (대화) 21:34, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
이 기사를 참고하여 <대기 년도>로 다시 옮겨 보았다.--v/r - TP 22:03, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대하라 그러한 관행에 반대되는 분명한 합의가 형성된다면, 나는 그 합의점을 보지 못한다.나에게 그것은 단지 오래된 쓰레기를 치우는 것처럼 보인다.사람들은 그것에 대한 합의를 얻을 수 있다면 그것을 금지하는 정책을 업데이트할 수 있다.그때까지 이것은 우리가 웹호스트가 되지 않는 것과 매우 일치해 보인다.HighInBC 21:27, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Legacypac의 노력에 반대하는 사람들은 그들의 초안을 서둘러서 합의를 얻거나 MfD에 참여해야 한다.나는 이 행동들이 파괴적이라고 생각하지 않는다.그들의 노력은 생산적이라고 생각한다.--v/r - TP 21:36, 2016년 4월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원, 특히 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 페이지를 이동하는 데 대한 일시적인 제한지금까지 Legacypac이 하는 가장 파괴적인 일은 사용자 공간에는 적절하지만 메인 스페이스에는 적합하지 않은 사용자 공간 페이지를 식별한 다음 삭제될 부적절한 위치에 배치하기 위한 목적으로 사용자 공간 페이지를 메인 스페이스로 이동하는 것이다.페이지를 일부러 자신이 속하지 않는 곳으로 옮기는 관행은 당장 멈춰야 한다.레거시pac은 메인 스페이스에 적합한 사용자 공간 기사를 식별하고 이를 이동시키는 일도 많이 하는 것으로 알고 있다.나는 그들이 그렇게 해줘서 고마워.그러나 의도적으로 부적절한 움직임은 너무 파괴적이어서, 일부 생산적인 편집을 방해하는 비용이라도 일이 정리되는 동안 일시적인 제한이 필요하다고 생각한다.Fagles (대화) 2016년 4월 6일 00:59 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대한다. 사용자 공간은 정리가 필요하다.쿡구루 (대화) 02:33, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대한다. 레거시팩을 하기로 결심한 몇몇 편집자들이 있는데 그들은 경박한 ANI 실에 뒤이어 다양한 ANI 실들을 정리한다.그러나 그 결함은 라가시팩이 아니라 이 쓸모없는 반복 쓰레드에 있다.소프트라벤더 (대화) 09:20, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
@소프트라벤더: 레거시pac이 이 실을 시작했다.Godsy(TALKCONT) 09:24, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
우리는 사실 카발(Anti-Legacypacy)의 일부분이다. 그리고 그에게 불리하는 것은 주로 지상 요원들이야.우리는 우리가 안전하다고 생각하며 우리의 웹사이트를 통해 우리의 문제를 수행하곤 했다.그런데 지금은 모든 것을 활짝 열어젖혔으니.... 젠장! --QEDK (TC) 09:47, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
지금 몇 개의 하위 읽기를 시작하셨습니까?레거시pac (대화) 16:06, 2016년 4월 6일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대하다. 사용자 공간에서 삭제 정책에 대한 의견 불일치에 대한 해결책은 논쟁의 한쪽이 참여하지 못하도록 함으로써 해결되어서는 안 된다.~ 2016년 4월 6일 Talk 18:25 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대- 나는 고풍스러운 의지의 사용자 공간 초안을 청소하는 것은 칭찬받을 만하고 이 지역에서 Legacypac의 작업은 순전히 긍정적이라고 생각한다.Reyk 06:22, 2016년 4월 7일 (UTC)[응답]

대안 제안:레거시pac에 대한 AFC의 임시 제한

콘텐츠가 메인 스페이스에 적합한지 여부를 판단할 때 역량이 필요하다.특수:log/Godsy: 올해 3월 28일부터 4월 5일까지 내 로그에 있는 모든 페이지는 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스에 명백히 부적합한 내용의 메인 스페이스로 레거시pac의 페이지 이동을 되돌린 것이다(페이지 이동 당시).페이지는 메인 스페이스로 이동하기 전에 WP:CPOLWP:N을 합리적으로 충족시켜야 한다.내가 위에서 언급한 내 로그의 섹션의 첫 번째 부분을 막아라, 내가 되돌린 레거시pac에 의해 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 콘텐츠가 이동했다. 어떠한 종류의 참조도 없었다(외부 링크나 다른 잘못된 참조도 아니다).페이지 이동으로 인해 세 번의 신속한 삭제가 취소되었고, 내용은 분명히 WP:N에 실패했다.위에서 설명한 유형의 부적절한 움직임은 해당 대화 페이지에 대한 경고가 난 후에도 계속되었다(사용자 대화:Legacypac) 또한 그러한 무차별적인 움직임을 수정하거나 알아차린 몇몇 사용자에 의한 것이다.나는 이 섹션의 삭제 후보에 관한 게임술에 관여하지도 않을 것이다.단지 그러한 다른 행동들에 기초하여, 레거시pac은 (극단적인 선의를 가짐으로써) 무엇이 메인 스페이스에 적절하고 적절하지 않은지를 결정하는 데 어떤 방향을 사용할 수 있을 것으로 보인다.어떤 콘텐츠를 얼마 동안 보관해야 하는지에 대한 의견과 상관없이, 나는 레거시pac의 사용자 공간에서 메인 스페이스로 콘텐츠의 부적절한 움직임을 분명히 보여주었다.그래서 나는 다음과 같이 제안한다.

Legacypac is restricted from moving any page within the userspace or draftspace to the mainspace for three months. They may submit userpage drafts and drafts to Articles for Creation. If such a userspace draft or draft isn't accepted, Legacypac must remove the AFC templates, so the content of the page is not deleted per WP:G13.

This will fix the problem I've described above that shows no sign of stopping (Special:Log/Legacypac). This also allows them to basically carry on with the good work that they've been doing, while eliminating the majority of what has been problematic. This should also help improve Legacypac's sense of what is and is not appropriate for the mainspace.

  • Support as proposer.Godsy(TALKCONT) 04:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:ANIADVICE#8. Involved editors shouldn't be the ones to propose sanctions, imo. Also, I don't see any evidence of wrong-doing by Legacypac. No rules have been violated. No consensus exists that Legacypac has been disruptive. Nothing here even remotely supports sanctions. This entire thread should be closed.--v/r - TP 04:30, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This was a revenge thread by Legacypac, you've clearly not read the thumbrule you're quoting. --QEDK (TC) 04:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote the essay I'm quoting. My comment is in the spirit of what I wrote in the essay. People involved shouldn't be writing sanctions for each other.--v/r - TP 04:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't possess the power to read between the lines you wrote, nor do most people for that matter. --QEDK (TC) 09:30, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please format your comments properly if you have to say something. I've bulleted/indented/moved your comments atleast 3 times in total. Not to mention, you don't make sense. --QEDK (TC) 04:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Does Godsy understand what is suitable for mainspace? Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Claire of the Sea Light Legacypac (talk) 07:19, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User_talk:Legacypac#Moving_drafts_into_AFC ya some people don't like this. Legacypac (talk) 14:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Editor not playing ball by insisting on controversial renaming without using WP:REQMOVE

User User:Wiki-psyc renamed personal boundaries as setting boundaries without any discussion and without using WP:REQMOVE. I reverted it explaining that it was controversial and if User:Wiki-psyc wanted to pursue it please use WP:REQMOVE. Now User:Wiki-psyc has reverted my revert without bothering with WP:REQMOVE aqain.--Penbat (talk) 15:17, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first article name change does not appear to be controversial - it occurred 7 months ago and despite being an active article, there is nothing in the edit notes or TALK PAGE to suggest any controversy or disagreement until yesterday.
Penbat suggested a name change yesterday on the TALK PAGE and he implemented the change 5 hours after the change was contested and became controversial. I reverted the name change pending consensus.
Wiki-psyc (talk) 17:24, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Wiki-psycs point is irrelevant. There was absolutely no discussion before the move on the talk page and no WP:REQMOVE - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Setting_boundaries&diff=677100382&oldid=677070465 although he did post this on the talk page 1 hour 21 minutes afterwards - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Setting_boundaries&diff=677106945&oldid=677100387 --Penbat (talk) 18:10, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I did a major rewrite and documented the workback in 2015 so that other editors could follow. Why are we here? What are you asking for?
Wiki-psyc (talk) 18:57, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant.--Penbat (talk) 19:20, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have move protected the article for some time. As the first move was carried out nearly a year ago, and a lot of work has been done of the article content since then, I do not regard this as move warring by Wiki-psyc. However now is the time to stop moving and get consensus on the most appropriate title. I suggest using the WP:RM process. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:03, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RM is all I want but it seems unreasonable that I have to initiate the WP:RM, not User:Wiki-psyc, and have to make the case to go back to the status quo when there was no discussion or WP:RM before the first rename on 21 August 2015. I am not sure why time is a factor. Substantive changes were made by User:Wiki-psyc just before the rename as part of a package, briefly documented after the event here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Setting_boundaries&diff=677106945&oldid=677100387. I was never happy with the original rename but have only recently taken issue with it as I have just got round to looking into it in depth. Just because I have not intervened earlier did not mean that I approved - it was presented as a fait accompli. Changes in the article since then have not been particularly substantive but anyway I fail to see why it is relevant to the naming of the article. The basic character of the article has not changed significantly since then. No other editor has expressly supported User:Wiki-psyc's edits or the rename. Edits by other editors have been relatively minor.--Penbat (talk) 12:54, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Had you reverted the name change after it was originally moved last year, I am sure Wiki-psyc would have been happy to go through a WP:RM. However since it has stood with no contest for months, the status quo has changed. It doesnt matter that no one has expressly supported it, no one has opposed it for months. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:53, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Agree with the move protect admin action by MSGJ (talk · contribs). At this point in time, unfortunately with regards to all that has already transpired, it's somewhat irrelevant what happened in the past. Users should discuss and neutrally and in a civil manner make their case on the talk page with the WP:REQMOVE process, and hope for additional input from previously-uninvolved-participants to arrive at the discussion. — Cirt (talk) 00:17, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Request for help establishing neutrality Like this ANI, the WP:RM has become personally disparaging rather than a simple consensus discussion. This is the second time I have been brought before and ANI for unknowingly editing an article that was originated by Penbat. I'm not going to engage the accusations in the WP:RM. I do ask that this matter be reviewed for possible intervention.
Current WP:RM
Prior ANI for editing a Penbat originated article titled Exaggeration
Wiki-psyc (talk) 16:26, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Disruption?

I would like to know how this comment is justifiable. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:37, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No. Not appropriate, but not worth bringing here. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:35, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Meh. I think it's rude, but that's all. If there's some underlying pattern of disruption I'm not aware of, that might be something else, but even then something that mild couldn't be the straw that broke the camel's back in my view. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 06:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not the first time he's gotten snippy in the edit summary on this issue, but it seems to be accelerating.[95][96][97]Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 12:43, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd have to say I agree here with Baseball Bugs this behavior is inappropriate and not conducive to collaborative building of an encyclopedia together. — Cirt (talk) 00:25, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Baseball Bugs. Although his edits concern site-related stuff (pp template), it still is a form of POV-pushing IMO. Optakeover(U)(T)(C) 19:36, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:The Parlotones

I keep placing {{outdated}} or {{incomplete}} at Template:The Parlotones, but it keeps getting reverted. Per WP:OUTDATED, "If you do not wish to make the effort to do that yourself but you know it needs to be done, you can also place {{update}} on the top of the page or section". Many sarcastic comments in violation of WP:CIVIL have been made there as well. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This edit summary was quite uncivil. This edit summary wasn't very nice, either. @Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars: you seem exasperated by the edit war, but I would suggest you be more civil in your edit summaries. If there are simply three albums missing from the template, I can add them myself. Will that stop the edit warring? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would rather have Jax 0677 learn to be an editor that helps readers rather than placing tags on articles and templates when he knows what needs to be to done to fix them and that will only confuse and exasperate readers. Look at all the steps he is taking rather doing the simplest of things. He admits to being lazy in his defense above, although he does so by referencing an essay regarding arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. Could I have done it, too? Sure. But that won't stop a lazy editor from continuing to be lazy. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 18:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Reply - There are even more comments at Template talk:The Parlotones, which along with the page history, may be reviewed for violation of WP:IMPERSONATE. Despite the fact that I used {{outdated}} or {{incomplete}} for their intended purpose, the edit summaries and comments on the talk page still are in violation of WP:CIVIL. If an album/song is released after I created the navbox, I am not necessarily responsible for adding those new articles. Additionally, the discography article is still missing from the navbox. --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I guess Jax means this edit. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:54, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ad hominem attacks

I'm asking for some help on Talk:Spark (horse). While it's clear that Doug Coldwell (talk · contribs) is making great progress on this article, it appears he's taken ownership and any other opinions are met with ad hominem arguments [98], [99], [100], [101] effectively saying he's an elite editor and I'm not qualified to edit the article I created.

DYKs are great but they shouldn't get in the way of cooperation and having quite a few of them isn't an excuse to bully other editors. Toddst1 (talk) 14:07, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see a fair bit of boasting, and some belittling of your work which is not appropriate. Where has he said you may not edit in an area?
I think the best course of action would be to simply remind @Doug Coldwell: that we are all volunteers, and even if you have an amazing body of work that it is not appropriate to belittle the work other editors. HighInBC 14:30, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, @Doug Coldwell: effectively said that by his demeaning comments. It's difficult to interpret them differently. Toddst1 (talk) 21:39, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Non-admin, horsey comment. Doug Coldwell does seem to be belittling Toddst1 for not having DYKs. DYKs are good but are not the reason for writing articles; sharing knowledge is. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Add, the next day: the DYK hook Doug Coldwell is using for the article isn't even accurate. Bull Rock was the first Thoroughbred racehorse in the US, not Spark. White Arabian FillyNeigh 15:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Toddst1:Wow that's inappropriate behavior you've cited above, I gotta agree here. I myself have sometimes commented on talk pages noting my successful Quality improvement efforts, but I've strived not to do so in a demeaning manner and never in direct comparison to others' quality improvement efforts and certainly not in a comparative denigrating way like that. Wholly inappropriate and not conducive to building an encyclopedia together as a community. — Cirt (talk) 00:28, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Legal threats by Sanjayarora1234

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sanjayarora1234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) made a clear legal threat in summary of this edit: here Jim1138 (talk) 06:03, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They've been warned and notified of this thread. Let's see what they do now. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 13:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Sibbs11

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sibbs11 (talk · contribs) has repeatedly removed referenced content from the article Mahto, including from various IPs (WP:DUCK):

The article states (with references) that the surname "Mahto" is used by multiple Indian castes. Apparently, Sibbs11 belongs to the Koeri caste, and insists on removing mention of any other castes from the article.

The user refuses to indulge in any discussion except threats:

  • On talk page of Tbhotch: "Please delete this content...and Mahto sir name do not belong to all the listed caste except koeri MAHTO. Delete this. Else will put complain against you." [113]
  • On my talk page: "You have wrong information about mahto sir name. None of the catse belong to mahto sir name. Please delete else will raise a compain against you." [114]
  • On own talk page after folks on IRC refused to help him: "I did not get any help..They are not taking my request and they deliberately intended to defame this community by not removing castes line." [115]
  • After being given level 4 warning: "I have already discussed several times. Ultimately i have to take this step to remove the irrelevant contents. Please don't come in between and add irrelevant articles under this topic. I will request the wiki management to revoke you from the admin access. As you are not here to listen any ones voice and just to fight with the words with zero knowledge. I warn you if you try to undo the edited contents I will take this matter to the higher authorities."[116]

Note: Contrary to his claims that he has "discussed several times", he has not participated in any discussion except above threats.

I am tempted to block the user for disurptive editing / incompetence. But I would like someone else to take a look at this to avoid WP:INVOLVED, as I've undone the user's edits in the past and protected the page to prevent his/her IPs from editing the page. utcursch talk 21:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Did you file an sockpuppet investigation at all? Might consider asking for page protection too. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've already protected the page to allow only autoconfirmed users. The IPs are obviously related to the user per WP:DUCK. I just want another admin to handle this matter because I have been involved in editing the article. utcursch talk 22:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Blatant BLP violation and subsequent protection by involved Admin

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-03-17/News_and_notes is the page in question.

I've blanked it during the MFD due to the obvious BLP violation. An Admin has protected the page after voting keep, keeping the BLP violating information still in of course.

Further reading here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-03-17/News_and_notes Arkon (talk) 22:45, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your interpretation that it was a BLP violation was hardly the consensus view at the MFD, so it does not qualify as an "obvious" violation that requires edit warring, or even as a violation at all. It did not require immediate removal, as evidenced by your only removing it after I said something you didn't like in the MFD discussion, so your actions are quite pointy. Article protection is supposed to be used in cases of edit warring to prevent further disruption, so the admin acted per policy. Gamaliel (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your interpretation of BLP is fucked in general if you think this is ok on an encyclopedia, or in accordance to Wikipolicy. As for the MFD, I am hardly the only one to say it was one, not even counting the original speedy deletion request. Protection of a page with a BLP violation is shameful. Your actions are shameful. Arkon (talk) 23:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I had a COI in protecting the page from edit-warring, and I don't interpret BLP like Arkon is. That said, I'm open to the idea that I am mistaken in believing that I did not have a COI, and I invite any admin to modify my action as they see appropriate. Ed[talk] [majestic titan] 23:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not a COI, INVOLVED. You don't interpret making things up about a living person on wikipedia to be a BLP violation. Wonderful trait in an admin. Arkon (talk) 23:20, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really concerned with your interpretation, as you've already stated it at least a dozen times. Let the community come and voice their thoughts. I could very well be wrong; I make no claims of perfection. :-) Ed[talk] [majestic titan] 23:33, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You don't seem to be concerned with much, which is why we are here. As for it being "my" interpretation, that's obviously incorrect if you actually read the pages you participated on. I am not the only one who has stated the obvious about this page. Still didn't say whether you interpret making things up about a living person as a BLP violation. Arkon (talk) 23:37, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's a joke based on body shaming. It has to go. April 1 is over and it's clearly a BLP violation. It's the same kind of joke that generates a juvenile snicker but the snicker doesn't mean it's not a BLP violation. It's right up there with fat jokes about Hillary and "cankles." --DHeyward (talk) 23:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Respectfully, WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE is clear; consensus must be obtained before restoration of material. Information should not be restored on the basis that there is "no consensus" for removal; clear consensus for inclusion is required. Respectfully request that Ed remove the protection & Gamaliel self-revert the restoration, pending formation of a clear consensus for inclusion. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 23:43, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. Blanking this page would negatively affect the current, live version of the Signpost. Gamaliel (talk) 23:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not blanking this page negatively affects the current living actual human being. No one cares about your mouthpiece. Arkon (talk) 23:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yet again reverting close, with a wonderful new personal attack and BLP violation to boot!!! Yay JZG! Arkon (talk) 00:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • With respect, if the current version of the Signpost relies on the existence of a page which makes this type of statement about a living person, then the appropriate response is to remediate the current version of the Signpost, not to edit war123 to reinsert unsourced information about living persons which had been the subject of clearly identified, good faith, BLP redactions. Regardless of whether the information is found to be a BLP violation, or the "humour" aspects are found to be a sufficient reason for retention (albeit unsupported by policy), the edit warring is a clear violation of WP:BLP. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 11:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arkon has reverted the closure of this section four times and has told the closing admin "you can fuck right off". There are a lot bigger problems here than some dumb joke about Donald Trump. Gamaliel (talk) 00:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Those are clearly issues, and they should be handled, but the close was genuinely problematic and I considered reverting it myself. The comment by Ryk72 wasn't addressed at all and even prompted the protecting admin to remove protection (thanks for considering opposing views by the way, Ed). Closing it as "you're an idiot that doesn't understand policy" is a bit absurd. ~ RobTalk 00:22, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, it wasn't the best close in the world. But involved parties don't get to override closures like that. If I edit warred to reverse a closure I didn't like, you can bet Arkon would be screaming about my "abuse" at the top of his lungs. Gamaliel(talk) 00:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't doubt that, and Arkon's behavior can be dealt with if editors care to do so. Over the year or so I've been around Wikipedia, I've developed a distaste for injecting myself into debates on behavioral issues - too much drama - so I'll stay out of that bit. I'm just saying that the closure was a bit nuts and I think this should remain open. ~ RobTalk 00:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Yes, I'm considering opposing views, but I'm still finding it awfully hard to see how 'Donald Trump has small hands' is not an obvious (stupid yet amusing) joke. Ed[talk] [majestic titan] 00:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@The ed17: Have you seen this? It's apparently a real thing that pisses Trump off. Not to mention the well-covered threats of litigation that Trump frequently makes, which this is also poking fun at. Honestly, if I saw this thread out of the context of April 1, I would not jump to "it's a joke" immediately. ~ RobTalk 00:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Can we actually agree that "IT WAS A PRANK BRO" is no excuse for BLP vios. That'd be nice. Arkon (talk) 00:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Arkon's behavior can be dealt with if editors care to do so." If only we had some kind of noticeboard where we could do that.... Gamaliel(talk) 00:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I know right! You could always ban me without process through a completely private procedure where I have no right of response, just sayin'. Arkon (talk) 00:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is a good example of what we have as arbcom members apparently. Someone now defending putting another BLP violation, and a personal attack as close, as being ok it seems, but fuck off is just tooo far. Now that needs the humorous template. Arkon (talk) 00:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The really humorous thing is your deep concern about BLP when it comes to people you don't like: [117][118]. Someone who uses talk pages as a forum to libel attack people who aren't rich presidential candidates is the last person who should be lecturing anyone about BLP. Gamaliel(talk) 00:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh please, everyone who reads this section, click those diffs. Great demonstration of how far from reality Gamaliel's ideas of what BLP is, actually are. Arkon (talk) 00:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:LIBEL and WP:NLT are pretty solid. We usually don't accuse other editors of libel as it can be seen as a legal threat and the correct course is to remove libelous material. "libel" should be used sparingly and only in discussions regarding content, not as way of casting aspersions. --DHeyward (talk) 02:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment if this was about anyone other than Trump it would not be allowed. Regardless of what we may think of Donald Trump, this is not appropriate humor for an encyclopedia. The Master ---)Vote Saxon(--- 02:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am pretty blown away that a user at ANI can edit war over an admin's close right here and can tell that admin they "can fuck right off" and that user is not blocked (that's a link to a clean block log). Why is this person not blocked? Jytdog (talk) 03:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Because being an admin does not mean you can close with a BLP violation and a personal attack as the summary? Because using vulgarity seems to be the preferred way of argumentation (NEW AND IMPROVED SANCTIONED BY ARBCOM)and is hardly blockable? Or why are you sniping instead of responding to the actual point? Arkon (talk) 03:47, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You've created an entirely new issue by your behavior and discredited whatever point you were originally making; you seem to be claiming to passionately defend one policy but you have definitely trashed two of them. I am just fascinated with the dynamics here - this is the most disrespectful thing I've seen done to the entire admin corps and the community by someone who is not already indeffed since... it must be procaryotes reverting the close on own his Tban appeal at AN a couple months ago. And the admins are doing nothing. So strange, all around. Jytdog (talk) 06:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
ANI is for discussing disruption, and it is not uncommon for OPs to have their own behavior boomerang on them, especially when they are this blatant and even doggedly defending their disruption. It shreds whatever notions we have that there are boundaries of acceptable behavior around here (and shreds the basis for Arkon's claim, since policy apparently doesn't actually matter if it gets in the way of what you want). I would file an EWN notice but it happened right here. Just so interesting and strange, especially the admin inaction aspect. Jytdog (talk) 06:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't WP:STANDUPFORTHEESTABLISHMENTNOMATTERWHAT_Noticeboard. If you're trying to prove you're part of the "in crowd" to garner yourself an RfA nom in the future, this isn't the place to do it.--v/r - TP 23:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • There used to be the Signpost profanity trigger warning when the Signpost editor became upset with profanity. I guess it was removed. --DHeyward (talk) 03:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The alleged violation is certainly not blatant, and it is being discussed in an appropriate forum. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Respectfully, the multiple restorations (links above) of material removed on clearly identified, good faith, BLP grounds is a blatant violation. WP:BLP is clear - consensus must be obtained before restoring redacted material. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 11:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • That sounds correct. I didn't know about "multiple restorations". The MfD can consider alleged BLP violations behind a blanking. Alleged BLP-violating material shouldn't be restored while it is in dispute. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • MfD can consider the allegedly infringing BLP content, but ANI is the place to discuss the restoring actions.--v/r - TP 04:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever else has gone wrong here, @Gamaliel: you should certainly not have removed the CSD tag from that page[119], as is said in bold in the lead of the policy WP:CSD: "The creator of a page may not remove a speedy deletion tag from it." Fram (talk) 12:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wow, this is lame. An April Fools' joke that gets the full BLP policy treatment by people on all sides? JzG already pointed to WP:NCR, which is much more relevant to this dispute than WP:BLP. —Kusma (t·c) 12:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Mfd seems strongly in favor for deletion. Seeing that this is a BLP and now that all have had their fun, perhaps a BOLD admin could step in and IAR by closing the Mfd and deleting this stupidity.--MONGO 13:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: On behalf of the Signpost: this dummy page is no longer needed; we have no objection to its deletion. --AndreasJN466 13:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, but whether you needed that page or not is not really relevant to decide on its deletion. Fram (talk) 14:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This was closed by JzG as follows: This does not require administrator intervention - not even the 3RR violation by the OP. Guy (Help!) 13:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have reopened this because a) it is debatable whether this required or requires admin intervention or not, considering the BLP nature of things and the back-and-forth (some against policy) by admins / arbcom members already happening there; and b) the OP did not make any 3RR violations, as he made one blanking and two reverts only. Having a section where the OP was basically right (viz the subsequent SNOW deletion) closed with a hatnote that implies that the only problematic edits were some non-existant 3RR violation by the OP (but which ignores the actual problematic edits by others) is not the best way to end this mini-drama. Fram (talk) 14:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Argument that BLP contentious material needs to be preserved because Signpost uses it, is one of the silliest things I have seen here. Also 1st April was a week ago, a bit late for April Fools.--Staberinde (talk) 15:38, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the love of God, someone open an Arbcom request. Gameleil needs all of his bits removed.69.143.137.41 (talk) 15:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Your calls for desysoping would be given more weight if you did not log out to post that. HighInBC 16:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • If this was humor about Chelsea Manning, the proponents of this joke would've had entirely different opinions. We can't pick and chose who the WP:BLP policy applies to based on our personal politics.--v/r - TP 23:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And the hits just keep coming...

I saw that userbox before the deletion, I am forever scarred from the experience. Luckily Mr. Trump did not see it or we would regret it!--Milowenthasspoken 18:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer that editors keep such pointy comments elsewhere. Wikipedia is not a social network. Mr Ernie (talk) 18:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Civility of Arkon

Setting aside the issue of the the now deleted article, can we look into the civility of Arkon? I'm seeing some incredibly abusive behavior, including cursing at several admins. This is not behavior of someone who wants to collaborate. --Tarage (talk) 18:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are seeking to sanction him after MfD validated his BLP concerns with a snow close? How about we take a look at those that violated BLP policy and not Editor Profanity Disorder? Note that ArbCom member that violated BLP and reverted to keep BLP violations, then complained about profanity, then accused Arkon of libel, also created and allowed multiple signpost article with profanity using the same offensive terms. His complaints are disingenuous at best and his behavior was the worst. --DHeyward (talk) 18:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of disingenuous complaints, it's interesting you are so offended by a little swearing in the Signpost when you use the comments section of those same Signpost articles to call people Nazis. The fact that the MFD was closed in favor of Arkon's preferred outcome - and the preferred outcome of many other editors - does not give Arkon license to tell an uninvolved admin to "fuck right off". The logical extension of that ridiculous claim is that everyone who is on the right side of a consensus gets to violate whatever policy they want. Nor does your preexisting grudge against me for sanctioning you for your repeated violations in unrelated topic areas have any bearing on the appropriateness of Arkon's conduct. Gamaliel(talk) 18:53, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not offended, I just don't see the need. I didn't swear at you nor do I condone it, but the essence of Wikipedia is completely captured when the notion that an edit summary of "The close was fucked up" is okay, but "fuck off" is not and "Nuts" is still reserved for the Battle of the Bulge. I'm pretty sure the BLP policy says exactly that BLP Trumps everything (even Small Handed Admins) and there is a BLP exemption for nearly everything. That you continue to pretend your BLP violation was okay even after consensus is problematic as well as your zeal to punish BLP defenders. As for grudge, I have none. You have very selective memory and your "sanction" has never been enforced. I don't even bother appealing it but it was another example of your problematic behavior given the "grudge" you must hold from when your Lori Klausutis article was deleted for BLP reasons (but you claim you don't remember so you are "uninvolved" in everything even though we have butted heads for 10 years - good luck with that). Your American Politics involvement is so problematic that you should be banned from the topic but again you are "neutral." And no, I never called anyone a Nazi (another sideshow canard to go with the ones I just mentioned). --DHeyward (talk) 21:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no memory of what article you are talking about from ten years ago or whatever imaginary connection you may think we have had, but I do recall you calling me a Nazi a week ago. You have a bizarre habit of pretending we are lifelong buddies when you aren't viciously insulting me. Gamaliel(talk) 22:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I know! It's amazing how quickly everything is forgotten when "involved" would warrant abstention, but your false Nazi aspersion memory just makes stuff up. I never claimed we were buddies. Quite the opposite. That's why all your "uninvolved" BS rings so hollow. And now you have a Nazi grudge. Outstanding. --DHeyward (talk) 00:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Life is too short to bother remembering everyone you may or may not have had an internet argument with a decade ago. And there aren't enough hours in the day to worry about every person who ever called me a Nazi. There's been a webpage about me (google it!) with a picture of me next to a Nazi flag that's been up for years. You'll have to try harder to merit an actual grudge. Gamaliel(talk) 00:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't bother, just every political BLP violation involves you. I just pointed out how far back the problem goes. And by the way, diffs on the "Nazi" thing or STFU. --DHeyward (talk) 01:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here you go: Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-03-09/Systemic_bias#Kyriarchy.2C_Something_about_Arbcom. And if you really believe the preposterous claim that "every political BLP violation involves" me, WP:ARCA is thataway ----> Bring your diffs. Gamaliel (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So being right absolves you from any transgressions? I'm not saying that one side in this argument is saintly. I'm saying nearly everyone involved has mud on their hands, and we shouldn't just ignore incivility because someone happened to be right in this instance. --Tarage (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Haven't you heard? Cursing is the bee's knees Arkon (talk) 18:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Civility is quite a subjective thing. See this op-ed from the Signpost for a different perspective. Mr Ernie (talk) 18:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What's even more abusive is using Wikipedia Signpost (and any other part of Wikipedia) as a means to display one's personal political shitposts under the thinly-veiled explanation that its just an April Fool's gag. And yeah, I just cursed, too. -- Netoholic @ 18:47, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Arkon should not be faulted for his behavior. Frankly, any means necessary is appropriate to defend Mr. Trump from the scurrilous slime which Gamaliel perpetrated upon him. If one million f-bombs are necessary to remove a false old headline about Donald Trump's hand size, so be it. Except if the editors are women.--Milowenthasspoken 19:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes he should, because he revert-warred on this page, but the sanction should not go beyond a little light mockery for initiating one of the most stupid, pointless and pointlessly protracted arguments I can recall here. A joke page was created on the day we create joke pages. It has been deleted. The sky has not fallen. Some people badly need to get a sense of proportion. Perhaps they have really small hands and are terribly sensitive about it. Guy(Help!) 19:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's another BLP violation right there, friend.--Milowenthasspoken 19:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, I shall need to remember that "It has been deleted. The sky has not fallen." is a good excuse for terrible behavior. Am I to assume my use of curse words caused said sky to fall? Arkon (talk) 19:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And being right is somehow an excuse for terrible behavior as well. Stop this nonsense and start being civil. It's not too much to ask. --Tarage (talk) 20:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You'd think it would be a simple request when it's one of our five pillars. Apparently not. Gamaliel (talk) 20:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You think cursing is terrible behavior? That's interesting. Your contribution history is also interesting in regards to this new found civility crusade.
It's more than your cursing and you know it. It's not a crusade to look at the actions of one editor and go "Oh my gosh, what is wrong with this person?", it's common sense. I don't know why you are flailing around with your stick, but you need to drop it and stop now. I do not understand how this behavior is being tolerated. And for the record, I don't have a horse in this race, so please don't lump me into either political camp. --Tarage (talk) 21:03, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You started this section, on me, I have no stick, but I will respond as needed. I also never lumped you into any political whatever, if you believe that's what this is you should just go ahead and withdraw from this discussion. Here, let me give you the "ProWiki" response: Your original "you were right but.." should stop right there, as one of the five pillars (Hi Gamaliel!), is IAR. So whatever your gripe, I did the right thing in that context. Of course, the real response is that it's astonishing that you find bluntness with curse words, to be a problem while nary a comment regarding actual issues. Sounds Meaty even. Arkon (talk) 21:09, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
IAR doesn't excuse you from being a civilized human being. There are a million ways you could have gone about this entire thing. You choose one of the most toxic and dividing. There is being blunt and there is being needlessly aggressive and offensive to multiple people. Multiple people have pointed this out to you. It's one of the 5 pillars for cripes sake. --Tarage (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, I think you're outnumbered on the whole "multiple people" thing, with people who actually did the bad deeds being in your group. Do you mean we got a 5 pillar battle royale brewing? Arkon (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As for dear Ol' Gamaliel, you know what was a simple request? A speedy deletion tag on fabricated text about a living person, which you removed, then argued to actually keep. Trying to use policy as a hammer when you can't even get a grip on the thing isn't very smart, might hit your thumb, your tiny tiny thumb. Arkon (talk) 20:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I love how adults pretend to not understand the difference between profanity and personal attacks. For example, your comment contained no profanity but several personal attacks. Your attacks on Guy contained profanity and personal attacks. Keliana's column linked above contained profanity but no personal attacks. It's not that difficult to grasp, even for those poor souls afflicted with tiny, tiny hands and need special BLP protection from even a mild reference to their affliction.. Gamaliel(talk) 20:16, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, a double down on ignorance of the harm that is caused by making shit (OHMYGOD) up about living people. Arkon (talk) 20:20, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Arkon, when you talk about people's small body parts, you need to use the {{humor}} template so they know it's not a BLP violation.--v/r - TP 00:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Consistency is the hobgoblin of small hands;. But seriously: the community should think about the growing deployment, chiefly by right-wing extremists working to keep Wikipedia in line, of crocodile tears. The pearl clutching over an arbitrator using the F word in a signpost article, or calling a joke "terrible behavior," is highly uncivil and, in fact, quite toxic. (If it's terrible behavior, the cover of a recent New Yorker ought to be sanctioned as well.) Conversely, when Gamergaters use Wikipedia to spread rumors about a software developer’s sexual history, or pore through their undergraduate assignments for evidence that they are soft of pedophiles, well, no problem! Oversight will get around to the matter within a day or two of notification, so no big deal, right? (Both the preceding examples are from the past week, incidentally.) This sort of dishonesty is likely to cause the project a lot of trouble, one of these days. MarkBernstein (talk) 20:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yay it's Mark! He's here to tell us how to be civil, listen carefully folks. Arkon (talk) 20:20, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously, that's enough. Can we please act like we're building an encyclopedia? The correct term per WP:MEDMOS is sausage fingers. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 20:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Misuse of admin tools by Gamaliel

@Gamaliel:, after all the above (including your policy-violating removal of a CSD tag from a page you created and which has since been Snow deleted), did you really think that creating and then using protection to keep User:Gamaliel/Small hands from blanking or deletion was a correct use of the admin tools? Yes, we have U1, but that's not meant for admins to protect their own controversial subpages from blanking. WP:INVOLVED comes clearly into play here. Fram (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I regularly protect subpages in my userspace as I am the frequent target of vandalism. My user page has been protected since 2005. Would you like to see the rev deleted edits that I used to get on a daily basis graphically describing imagined sex acts of my own parents? I deleted it the userbox, it's over, WP:DROPTHESTICK. Gamaliel (talk) 20:03, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(removed trolling by Milowent, please stop these childish posts here) Fram (talk) 20:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, you're still discussing actions by others in this whole stupid drama you started, but your actions should be ignored because you want this and because you have, in completely unrelated circumstances, been the victim of sexual harassment? There are unprotected pages in your userspace (I'll not list them per BEANS), but this one suddenly needed immediate and full protection? Right... That you deleted the userbox hours later doesn't simply make the misuse disappear. If you want other people to drop the stick, then start by giving the right example instead of what you have been doing and are still doing here. And in general, even if you wpuld be in the right, "drop the stick" after the first remark about some aspect of your own behaviour, and without anyone uninvolved even chiming in, is a rather pathetic reply. Fram (talk) 20:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, there are some subpages I've neglected to protect. I don't feel like going through three year old to do lists and draft articles to protect everything. I brought up the harassment not as an exemption, but to point out why I use the protection in a perfectly routine, acceptable manner that you are trying to make drama out of. Gamaliel(talk) 20:30, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, you are misusing the harassment to justify your protection of your own page to score a WP:POINT after the Signpost page was deleted. That is not "a perfectly routine, acceptable manner" but behaviour incompatible with being an admin and arbcom member. I hope this is just a temporary lapse and that you will see this for what it is after this has died down a bit. Fram (talk) 20:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, instead of adding your test page to the Signpost index for 2010, like you did here, you could have deleted the entry you added earlier for the page that started this whole discussion, even though that wasn't a real 2010 page in any case. I have removed both. Are there still more places where you have added the now deleted Signpost page? Fram (talk) 20:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's an "effing" APRIL FOOLS joke people. God, will someone just get a grip here? (Whether they have small hands or not?) Facepalm FacepalmMontanabw(talk) 00:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's just a prank bro!!Arkon (talk) 01:05, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Montanabw: That's cool bro, I'll just let all the right-wing religious nuts we have on Wikipedia know that on April 1st, they can say anything they want about Chelsea Manning and we won't stop them.--v/r - TP 01:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@TParis: Political satire involves poking fun at the powerful, not bullying people who are not well-positioned to defend themselves. You are making a false analogy here. Montanabw(talk) 06:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Montanabw: You're quite right. So, the line in WP:BLP granting an exemption for politicians is...where...exactly? Or, perhaps, WP:POLITICALSATIRE isn't a red link? No? Yeah, it's easy to exempt yourself when the BLP subject is someone you have complete contempt for; but WP:BLP doesn't grant you a personal exemption for that either.--v/r - TP 06:49, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) With sincere respect to the authors of the Signpost article and their strong histories of contribution to the encyclopedia, Wikipedia is WP:NOT a publisher of political satire. If editors wish to write and have published political satire, they should seek out a publisher of such material; or alternately take advantage of the many opportunities for self-publication that the Internet provides. I encourage all participants in this discussion to please read WP:NOT and WP:BLP. I also note that the ANI filing relates not to the appropriateness of the Signpost article, but to breaches of WP:BLP and misuse of admin tools. NOTE: Clearly the closes are premature. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 06:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is getting worse and worse the more I look at all that happened here. Did you really edit war to reclose a discussion about yourself here[120], and here, and here for the thrid time, warning the other editor at that time that he is at 3 reverts, which of course also applies to yourself? Removing CSD tags from a page you created, protecting a page you created as a POINT violation, edit warring to close an ANI discussion about your own actions, adding test pages and hoaxes to Signpost indexes for 2010, ... what's next? The original creation and wanting to keep the page can be seen as a lapse of judgment, but everything you did in the surrounding events is seriously worrying. Please stop and take a serious step back here. Fram (talk) 20:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you'll find that, if you seriously think this is a serious question, there's a serious place called ArbCom to raise it. It’s.....thataway ---> MarkBernstein (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fram, I'm sorry you saw my removed comment[121] as trolling. Really this whole thing is getting out of hand. "SMALLHANDSGHAZI" was my way of communicating that. The Signpost is an independent newspaper for Wikipedia, not Donald J. Trump's personal mouthpiece, though it might be much more invaluable to mankind if it was. People can have different views about whether Gamaliel's satirical attacks on the world's best person were funny or not, and his subsequent attempts to avoid censorship of his journalistic message. Mr. Trump wants more waterboarding, I suppose that would be a proper punishment for Gamaliel. A small hands user box and small hands headline ... life is too short.--Milowenthasspoken 23:07, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Continued BLP and POINT violations by Gamaliel

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

After the above sections (but before the close of the discussion) first User:Jayen466[122] and then User:Gamaliel[123] thought it a good idea to readd the "small hands" line to the Signpost page, despite the clear concerns many people have about this. Can someone uninvolved please make it very clear to him that the Signpost is not his private playground, exempt from BLP or separate from Wikipedia? Continuing to insert a BLP violation and lame joke just because you can is really very poor behaviour. Yes, this would be a very lame ArbCom case, but there's no reason that we can't handle this without their aid.

This kind of behaviour would not be accepted from regular editors, who would now either be at a final warning or blocked for such continuation of problematic behaviour; accepting this from an admin or Arbcom member gives the strong impression that people with those positions are allowed more disruption than others. Fram (talk) 06:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that he also felt the need to readd the fake 2010 page to the SIgnpost index for that year[124], and that after another editor removed it, this wsa reverted by User:Montanabw (who just happens to be a co-author of the Signpost Trump page) with the rather hypocritical summary "please do not edit-war"[125]. Why a page, created in 2016 and snow deleted a few days later, needs to be added to a Signpost index for 2010 is not clear, unless it is another WP:POINT violation by Gamaliel and the like. Has anyone kept count of how many very problematic edits Gamaliel has made in this situation so far? Fram (talk) 06:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support block to stop harming the encyclopedia with BLP violating material. There's been consensus MfD and despite all the calls to end this stupid drama and close the ANI, he continues to edit war and find ways ways to reinsert deleted material. His failure to stop and to heed advice means this isn't going to end without a timeout. His battleground behavior is disruptive and his BLP violations inexcusable given all the feedback and the expectations of admins and arbcom members. No one else would have been given this many chances to stop disruptive behavior and far too many editors have to clean up his mess. People want this silly thing to end and a block seems to be the only thing that will end it. --DHeyward (talk) 08:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support block (absent a sincere mea culpa, and with profound regret) to prevent continued BLP violations; additionally request that a genuinely uninvolved admin examine whether discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBAPDS should be applied. While the initial Signpost article may be thought to have been merely an ill-considered violation of WP:NOT, the continued WP:BLP violations and involved actions are blatant and ongoing. Edit warring to restore material removed under a clearly identified, good faith, BLP redaction and edit warring to restore a poorly thought out close of an ANI discussion of the editor are egregious violations. The editor has shown no understanding, above, that their actions not only violate policy, but are also deeply uncivil and disrespectful of the community - electing instead to engage, above, in ad hominem, tu quoque and red herring fallacies. The editor has clearly breached, and clearly intends to continue to breach, policy. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 10:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:Fram, I didn't "re-add" the "small hands" line, because it was in the article all along. What I did was change it from a redlink to a link to April Fools' Day. --AndreasJN466 11:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ah, I see now what happened and why the others probably were so insistent to keep it in the Module Signpost index. The page, before your edit, got the "Trump" articles from Module:Signpost/index/2010. At the moment, this doesn't show the disputed line. At the time of your edit to the News and Notes page, it was again for a while there thanks to the reverts by Gamaliel and Montanabw. So your edit didn't add the line, but had as result (though probably not intentionally) that the changes to the Modulo:Signpost page had no effect there, while without your edit the disputed line would have disappeared there. Hence my impression that you added it, while your view was that you changed a redlink to a bluelink (no idea why that was necessary, but it's a different kind of edit of course). Gamaliel, in the next revert there, did explicitly readd it though. Fram (talk) 11:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, you got it, Fram. That's exactly what happened. Basically the whole mess started because the "Related articles" box in the Signpost usually gets its content from that Signpost module. The idea was to have such a box in that April Fools piece, and hence the dummy entries in the Signpost index were created. With hindsight, that was a bad way of doing it, because these dummy pages existed in Wikipedia space as standalone pages; anyone happening on them would not have seen what their sole purpose in life was. So I agree with the deletion argument that JzG put forward in the MfD: "Delete or userfy, this is a joke but it's in a location where readers would not expect one, so needs to go from there. Guy (Help!) 09:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)". I don't think we would ever do this again, given that we've now figured out how to create a similar-looking "Related articles" sidebar manually.[reply]
      • Having said all that, I personally don't consider that "small hands" line, now explicitly hyperlinked to April Fools' Day in the Signpost piece for anyone who clicks on it, and prefaced by a humour template at the top of the piece, problematic on BLP grounds. It is now as clear as we can possibly make it that the piece is humour, and not to be taken seriously. The Signpost can't function as a community newspaper if we can't express opinions; all our recent reporting about the troubles at WMF relied on opinion, and in some cases non-public information, and I think it's generally agreed that it provided a service to the community. So you can't hold the Signpost to the same standards as article space, where every opinion has to be sourced, because by this reasoning, anyone could have deleted many essential Signpost articles of the last three months "on BLP grounds".
      • As far as the standalone, dummy page is concerned, the community has spoken, and I agree with that decision: the dummy page should never have been created, and it is gone. We've also deleted the other two, and I see no need to keep them in the index, given that they never existed. But we need a bit of editorial autonomy for the Signpost to function. So if people feel that the "small hands" reference, explicitly linked to April Fools' Day, is a BLP problem, then please start a discussion at WP:BLP/N, because this is a materially different question from the existence of the dummy page that was decided in the MfD; and if consensus at BLP/N is that it is a BLP problem, I'm sure we'll abide by it. Personally, as I say, I disagree with that view, and will argue against it if the matter is raised there. So if anyone has concerns about Signpost content on BLP or other grounds, I would ask them to please use the proper channels rather than going to the Signpost pages and edit-warring retrospective changes into published Signpost articles. Cheers, --Andreas JN466 12:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks. To me, at the moment, the "was it a BLP violation or not" angle is not really the essence, the main problem for me is how Gamaliel did everything to keep it alive before and after it was snow deleted, and how at the same time he did everything he could to end discussion of his actions. This is bad in all circumstances, and even more so when a lot of people fel it was about a BLP violation, where we should err on the side of caution. As for the editorial freedom of the Signpost and the comparison to e.g. WMF-related discussion: the Signpost is intended to discuss Wikipedia-related issues, and this includes serious problems within the WMF or where e.g. the donor money comes from or goes to. The page under discussion here had next-to-nothing to do with Wikipedia, it was not a joke at the expense of Wikipedia but one at the expense of Trump. No matter anyone's personal opinions of the man (and many of us will have strong opinions of him one way or the other), the Signpost was not the place to do this on April 1, and even less the place to continue this after April 1 was over. But this is a side discussion to the actions of Gamaliel, so if you want to continue it I suggest either a new subsection or a different location altogether. Fram (talk) 12:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, Gamaliel is the editor-in-chief of the Signpost, and I don't think it's appropriate for people to edit-war with him in the Signpost on the basis of their personal opinions. If someone feels there is a genuine BLP issue, each Signpost piece has a talk page (the feedback on the April Fools piece was overwhelmingly positive), and there are noticeboards where that sort of concern can be expressed in an orderly fashion. AndreasJN466 13:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • With respect, please re-read both WP:NOT and WP:BLP. As mentioned above, Wikipedia is not a publisher of political satire, and The Signpost is not exempt from BLP policy. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 13:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • Per WP:NOT, "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought." Are we going to delete all article talk pages, village pumps and essays as well? Do you want to have a community newspaper or not ...? AndreasJN466 13:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
              • Nice strawman. The community is, by consensus, supportive of a community newspaper which provides coverage of, and commentary on, the community itself. The community is not, by consensus, supportive of a community newspaper which provides political satire, including disparagement, of living persons. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 13:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
                • Where exactly has that consensus been established? The community responses on the talk page of that piece indicated that people thought it was funny. AndreasJN466 14:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
                  • WP:BLP. That these articles seemed amusing to sections of the community is a signifier of our diversity of political opinion; that they seemed appropriate for publication is as strong a signifier of how far we have yet to come. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 14:23, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • One more thing, about a section you added while I wrote my reply. "[...]I would ask them to please use the proper channels rather than going to the Signpost pages and edit-warring retrospective changes into published Signpost articles." Linking the "small hands" line to April Fool's Day is a retroactive change, it wasn't the target at the time it was posted (or for a week afterwards). So you didn't follow your own advice here... Fram (talk) 12:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • Following that change, the article looked exactly the same as at publication, except that the headlines in the sidebar now linked to April Fools' Day instead of the dummy pages—and that was a response to their deletion (creating redlinks) and the BLP concerns expressed at the MfD. Along with the addition of the humour template, I still think that's a good solution. Andreas JN466 13:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support block or at the least a topic ban from politics. These politically motivated "jokes" are violations of our core policies, no matter what the date of publishing. Mr Ernie (talk) 11:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a clear sign that "IT WAS JUST A JOKE" does not and never will excuse fabricating things about a living person on Wikipedia. Arkon (talk) 12:36, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make Wikipedia Great Again: Do Not Block: I wanted to comment that this whole tirade against Gamaliel (even if you dislike the joke and want to discuss that with him, which people should if they do) flies in the face of a 15 year tradition of *preserving* such antics. Within 15 days of Wikipedia's founding, a non-mainspace page was created called "Bad Jokes And Other Deleted Nonsense", see Wikipedia:Silly Things. This over the years has housed many many silly BLP violations, easily found via google, still preserved. See, e.g., Wikipedia:More_Best_of_BJAODN#The_Early_Life_of_Brian_Nichols, or Wikipedia:More_Best_of_BJAODN#From_George_W._Bush, Wikipedia:Even_more_Best_of_BJAODN#Mark_Ogilvie, Wikipedia:Best_of_BJAODN#Y0-Y0_Ma, Nostalgia wikipedia (U2 bashing at bottom). The "small hands" joke about Trump is so longstanding and pervasive that it is reasonable to see how Gamaliel thought it would be OK, and that preservation of the joke was OK under longstanding consensus. This is not a joke about about calling Barack Obama "the magic negro", Chelsea Manning some homophobic slur, or a mainspace article about George Bush choking on a pretzel (now deleted). Its a petty silly individual comment about Donald Trump, the greatest man ever to live. Perhaps that makes it forbidden. But its going far over the top to pile on asking to block him over this.--Milowenthasspoken 12:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The section is not about him making that joke, it is about all actions he took to preserve it, and to silence discussion about it (compare e.g. the reaction any regular editor would have received if he had closed an ANI discussion about his actions three times, with the utter lack of reaction from most here). If he hadn't done any of the things he did after the MfD closed (and some before that), we wouldn't be here discussing this any more. Fram (talk) 13:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's about ethics in aprils' fools journalism! Seriously though, he was trying to preserve the joke, not seeing it as affront to BLP. I don't see how this goes anywhere constructive.--Milowenthasspoken 14:27, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
He was trying to preserve the joke even after it had been resoundingly deleted at MFD, and trying to stop discussion of his actions. Considering his reaction here, he would probably do the same again in the future. The constructive thing would be that someone uninvolved sends him the message that such actions are not acceptable, and that he acknowledges this. The unconstructive thing is letting this just slip by, sending him the message that he can do this whenever he wants, and sending everyone else the message that we have different standards for admins / arbcom members / some editors in the inner circle on one side, and everyone else on the other side. Fram (talk) 14:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A standalone page was resoundingly deleted at MFD. We disagreed with the decision initially, especially since it this whole thing began as a pointy attempt to troll us. We see and agree with the wider community's viewpoint in the discussion that the standalone page was a problem, and we agreed with the deletion. The MFD was not a discussion about the content of a different page or a decision to forever ban the words from all Wikipedia pages ever. If you want to do that, BLPN is the appropriate place to start. Gamaliel (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously permanent block and salt all user pages and the entire archives of the Signpost. Obviously Fram is quite correct that it is inappropriate to use Wikipedia to make mild humorous topical references. The appropriate use of Wikipedia is to employ your userspace to host polemics attacking living people for being allegedly dishonest. It's clear my ten-year reign of terror of making humorous topical references needs to stop. I also apologize for kicking DHeyward's dog ten years ago, or whatever I did to piss him off to create a decade-long grudge and prompt him to follow me around the encyclopedia making disparaging comments about me, including the obviously not-BLP violating comparison of me to Joseph Goebbels, and to the editors who came here from the offsite canvassing at Gamergate forums for my sins against ethics in gaming journalism. #smallhandsghazi Gamaliel (talk) 13:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Raising the allegation of offsite Gamergate canvassing may well be a sign that you're now part of the problem, Gamaliel. It's a tactic Mark Bernstein has used and we all know he is part of the problem and indeed has done similar things to those of which he accuses others. Perhaps just back down from this, revert your post-MfD edits that some claim are point-y, and everyone let it go. - Sitush (talk) 13:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speaking of No Personal Attacks, I have indeed, on several occasions, brought attention to offsite Gamergate canvassing. These were not "allegations." Allegations are claims offered without proof, or at least claims that are capable of doubt. No one can doubt Gamergate’s extensive history of offsite coordination of its attacks through social media and through Wikipedia. No one has ever doubted them. They have been extensively reported, and in any case we have all seen them. A short block for incivility and a lousy sense of humor might give Sitush a chance to spend some more time with his dog, whom Gamaliel evidently kicked along with DHeyward's, while reminding everyone that Wikipedia's pillars are intended to apply to Wikipedians without exception. MarkBernstein (talk) 15:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would expect an administrator and member of the Arbitration Committee to respond to good-faith concerns raised by several community members about their behavior with something better than this kind of petulant tu quoque finger-pointing. For crying out loud, Gamaliel, at least try to pretend that you have something other than contempt for site policies and those who are interested in seeing them followed. -Starke Hathaway (talk) 14:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I take site policies very seriously. I've done years of work enforcing BLP policies in articles, on noticeboards, and through edit history redaction. I take the concerns of serious members of the community who express real concerns in a civil manner quite seriously, such as the concern brought up by JzG quoted by Andreas above. I do not take politically-motivated attempts at hijacking those policies to score points against people who perceive me to be their ideological opponent seriously. I do not take Gamergate editors stirred up by a thread on reddit seriously. I do not take editors who call me a Nazi or who use their userpage to attack living people seriously when they claim to be concerned about BLP. Gamaliel (talk) 15:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • A necessary precondition of a "good-faith concern" is good faith. Is there any hereabouts? I could have sworn I saw it around here somewhere! Maybe it fell between the cushions, or maybe is saw the Gamergate crowd and slipped out, but there is no good faith in evidence here. No sensible observer could think for a moment that this joke was a BLP violation, any more than the New Yorker cover was, or the headlines of newspapers from here to Cairo. There's no tu quoque anywhere ’round here, either, though partem latinitatis aut intelligentiae aerem circum hoc tollebit. Anyway, tu quoque finger pointing is too redundant. MarkBernstein (talk) 15:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the thread I found on Reddit was pretty insulting to all sides of this dispute. But I'm sure there are other forums that I didn't look at besides WikiInAction. Liz Read! Talk! 18:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Passive aggressive comments show you still do not understand what you did wrong and therefore you will stop doing it. You are failing to grasp very basic standards of editor behavior. --DHeyward (talk) 14:21, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose—this is silly and way out of proportion. Tony (talk) 13:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose block, but support a warning that continuing to revert editors undoing these BLP violations will result in a block for edit-warring. This is an unnecessary escalation, and administrator action is clearly not needed yet. But it is problematic that an ArbCom member thinks it's appropriate to use Wikipedia as a vehicle for political satire, and it boggles the mind that he doesn't understand why people are differentiating between harmless jokes and making fun of the physical appearance of a political candidate. The difference should be very clear. We can't prominently feature such satire while remaining neutral. ~ RobTalk 13:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Signpost is independent of the WMF, and doesn't pretend to speak for Wikipedia. It is community journalism. People publish opinion pieces in it; Fram did so some months ago, as I recall (and a great piece it was). It's not expected to be neutral. --AndreasJN466 13:44, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • The Signpost is not independent of the en.Wiki community, its publisher, which has set standards within which The Signpost must operate - which include WP:NOT and WP:BLP. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 13:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • Sure, but it takes a bit more than one person edit-warring to establish that it has fallen foul of those standards. And as I said above, if you want to apply WP:NOT to every page hosted on Wikipedia.org, you'll have to delete all essays, the village pump, and all article talk pages as well. For Pete's sake, WP:NOT specifically says, "Wikipedia is not a newspaper". Well, the Signpost is a "community newspaper". Andreas JN466 13:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • Ah, yes, "one person". You don't seem to have followed very closely at this point. Arkon (talk) 14:06, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • Please see WP:3RRNO - Clearly identified, good faith, BLP redactions are not edit warring. Restoration of material so redacted, is, and is also a violation of BLP. W.r.t WP:NOT, please see my previous answer above. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 14:23, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • What counts as exempt under BLP can be controversial. Consider reporting to the BLP noticeboard instead of relying on this exemption. --AndreasJN466 14:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
              • Editors are requested to consider alternatives. This does not, however, affect that BLP redactions, where clearly identified, and made in good faith, are not edit warring. NOTE: I think perhaps the other editors here might have indulged our discussion enough; I am happy to call a halt, with an agreement to disagree, perhaps pending a WP:BLPN or MfD filing, or continue on my Talk page. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 14:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • (ec)Thanks, but my op-ed was clearly about Wikipedia. The deleted page, not so much... I don't mind that the Signpost has an opinion about Wikipedia-related matters, it may present opinions, positions, criticism, ... but that is hardly relevant here. As far as I know, Trump is not a Wikipedia- or WMF-related subject though. And, of course, the main problem is not that the page was written and published, but how Gamaliel reacted to criticism and deletion of it. Judging from his response above, he still sees nothing wrong with what he did and reacts completely over the top. Fram (talk) 13:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • The whole premise of the April Fools thing was that Jimmy Wales would be Trump's running mate, based on his involvement in Lessig's presidential campaign a while back, and people riffed on that. (But okay, you say that aspect is not your main concern anyway.) Andreas JN466 14:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Tony1. --Andreas JN466 13:44, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment When I closed the above thread I thought the incident was further in the past, I did not realize it has been so recently repeated. As such I am reversing my closure. I really did not expect that. HighInBC 14:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: There was no BLP violation. At the most, it was a bad joke. The offending page was deleted, per consensus. The Signpost publishes opinions, of which this was one. If someone didn't find it funny, that's fine - nobody expects everyone to agree with all opinions in the Signpost. As to the admin actions, Gamaliel did not cover himself in glory here, but the misuse of admin tools is not serious enough for any action. I will just comment that Gamaliel is not doing himself any favours by pretending that he did nothing wrong. A bit of self-awareness is in order. Kingsindian 14:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    A "bad joke" that consisted of fabricating things about a living person. Strange how that keeps getting missed by some. The Signpost publishes...things, they still must adhere to BLP policy. If the consensus is that BLP doesn't apply to opinions, oh boy do I have some fun to get in to. Sorry, I know I've made this point to you before, but a blanket "There was no BLP violation" is simply incorrect based on policy. Arkon (talk) 14:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is a Signpost article, still up, which states that Trump has selected Jimmy Wales as his running mate. That is "fabricating things about a living person". I assume you will be putting that article up for deletion as well? I also look forward to you trawling through The Signpost archives to delete all April Fools articles ever written. Do feel free to waste your time if you wish. In the meantime, I will stick to my opinion that it was not a BLP violation. Kingsindian 15:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OTHERSTUFFEXISTS amiright? Your opinion is yours to keep, even if it's counter to actual policy. Arkon (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would point to [126], which Gamaliel has repeatedly inserted. I do not believe Trump has ever threatened to sue Wikipedia over an image of his anatomy. To me this is a BLP violation. It doesn't matter if there is a humorous intent. If editors think some BLP violations are funny and thus should not be violations, they should try to amend our policyto allow that. There is also the (minor) misuse of admin tools to keep this version live. Mr Ernie (talk) 14:49, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Support block and desysop - okay, it was just a joke, right? We have community processes to deal with such things, like WP:BLP and WP:MFD and such. The thing is we went through those processes, and the community stated in multiple places that this material was not acceptable, it crossed a line. The thing to do here was to have said "okay, I made an inappropriate joke and you guys called me on it, I won't do it again, let's move on." And then maybe some people have a chuckle about it, but everyone moves on. But that's not what Gamaliel did. Gamaliel edit-warred to restore the material, recreated it in his user space, and most egregiously of all he used admin tools to perform actions that he knew were against consensus and where he was obviously WP:INVOLVED. And he's continuing to do so at least per HighInBC's comment above, and his "small hands" page is still redlinked from his user page. What differentiates this from WP:LEVEL2? That it was a joke? I respect Gamaliel, a lot actually, but this is too far. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I did not realize that redlink was still there, I have removed it. The only "admin action" I took here was a routine protection of a user subpage which is transcluded to my main userpage, a frequent vandal target. I have also done this with other subpages unrelated to this matter. I did not "recreate" anything in my user space, I made a humorous reference to this ANI thread and nothing more. It was a joking reference to myself which said that I had small hands. I deleted it because it was submitted to MFD and I didn't want any more drama. I have every right to use my userspace to make reference to things that happen to myself. The words "small hands" have not been banned from the entirety of Wikipedia, otherwise using that logic we would never be able to employ the phrases "birth certificate", "October surprise", or "blue dress". Gamaliel (talk) 15:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, what was dealt with in community processes was not the joke per se, but the existence of a related dummy page in Wikipedia space that was not clearly identified as an April Fools' joke. Because that was a reasonable point, the page was deleted. Nobody restored it, and your assertion that Gamaliel did is untrue. The community has not anywhere expressed a consensus that the joke itself, clearly identified as an April Fools' joke, and riffing on a theme that's been widely discussed in the mainstream press, is a BLP violation. Andreas JN466 16:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - this is one of those cases where similar behaviour by a non-admin would have received quick no-questions-asked block a while ago. Obviously ANI won't be able to achieve consensus on any sanctions, even though at least some kind of warning/admonishment would be quite appropriate. On a different note, I commend the people who raised this issue, and prevented repeated attempts to shove the whole thing under a blanket with quick closing.--Staberinde (talk) 15:12, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • If admins engaged in similar behavior to some of the people demanding my head (once again I bring people's attention to the "fuck right off" comment, the comparison of myself to Goebbles, and the anti-Jimbo userpage polemic) nobody would be attempting to shove their behavior under a blanket and we'd all be outraged about admin abuse. Gamaliel (talk) 15:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, I recall quite a few "Fuck right off" comments from admins, shall I try to dig them up? As for the rest of your deflection, DHeyward has asked you to provide diffs or stop casting aspersions. Failure to do so is also something us normal folks would be blocked for. Arkon (talk) 16:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • An admin I thought very highly of was desyopped solely for a similar comment to the one you made. I responded to DHey above now; I initially missed his request in this wall of text. He does like to write about me, you know. Gamaliel (talk) 16:21, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, per earlier comments, The Signpost may be independent of the WMF, but it is not independent of the en.Wiki community, its publisher, which has set standards within which The Signpost must operate - which include WP:NOT and WP:BLP. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 16:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would respectively disagree -- in that we ought to value a free and independent press within our context -- that's the mission we give The Signpost. Indeed, from its very first issue The Signpost made clear: "Since this is not in the article namespace, guidelines such as "no ownership of articles", and particularly "no original research", will not necessarily apply."Cirt (talk) 18:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really disappointed in Gamaliel...he knows better and his position is such that we expect better.--MONGO 17:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose block, support warning as per BU Rob13. This blew up to extreme propositions, but I don't want to see this hitting NYT, WSJ, FOX News, etc. I think it's rather unfair to suggest that those concerned are Trump supporters with agendas; try replacing "Trump" with the public figure of your choice. My only "agenda" here is maintaining BLP. It's frankly irrelevant who the subject of this is; Wikipedia is simply the wrong venue for political satire, and there are legitimate concerns here. GABHello! 17:23, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Support block and consider vote of no confidence in Gamaliel as an arbitrator, in deference to the large number of editors who don't consider this worthy of a desysop. Ivanvector has it right. This was deplorable. April Fool's is one day; we have had massive discussions in the past about disruptive April Foolery, and in the past the Signpost created a special one-day edition that was then replaced by a regular edition with errors statement. In this instance, a sitting Arb used his bully pulpit as editor of the Signpost to subvert our entire purpose, edit warred, abused his admin rights, and insulted and threatened the editor who was brave enough to call out the BLP violation. American politics - or Gamaliel's or anyone else's personal views about potential candidates in US elections - are explicitly not an exception to our policies of neutrality and avoiding insulting living people. The reverse, in fact, by Arbcom fiat. I was desysopped for less. Where is Bishzilla. Yngvadottir (talk) 18:23, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Tony1. This was a silly April Fool's joke but the out-of-proportion reaction is not funny. Mizike (talk) 20:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - also per Tony1. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Whimsical Delight

Also not contributing. Drmies (talk) 23:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Ok, folks! We've got 12,500 wiki words -- and more every minute! -- about Donald Trump’s small hands and The Signpost. This is wacky. .

It’s also dumb, and it's not contributing to the project. In point of fact, it's providing a lot of comfort to the project’s detractors, who now will always be able to point to this episode as a wonderful example of the foolishness of editing Wikipedia and of the zaniness of the zealots and PR agencies who do. It's no good making a noise, gentlemen. The dean ain’t a-coming down tonight. (I note in passing that I here managed an unforced assonance on "z", which compels quiet kvelling.)

Can we close this before it gets even more out of hand? If people really want to make a federal case of this, ArbCom is thataway ==>. I’m sure that would be lots of fun! Alternatively, if someone has time on their hands, they could take this whole Gamergate mob to AE for wikihounding, canvassing, and a lousy sense of humor and proportion. That’s the great thing about Wikipedia: cop cars can become clown cars in an instant. I have no idea how the constabulary there would sort out the culpable from the pedestrians who had the misfortune to be passing by. MarkBernstein (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[127] --Andreas JN466 16:05, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Propose a TBAN of Akron

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His complaint being vindicated IN NO WAY excuses his vulgar behavior. The fact that he got as pissed off as he did about this whole thing tells me that he's too close to the subject. I propose he be given a topic ban of U.S. politics.142.105.159.60 (talk) 16:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support As proposer.142.105.159.60 (talk) 16:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • OH NO, You can see me!?! I was told the lifesize cardboard Trump cutout would protect me from prying liberal eyes. Arkon (talk) 16:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support MarkBernstein (talk) 16:36, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Especially since Arkon himself obviously agrees, judging from his above comment. --OpenFuture (talk) 16:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Akron is a classy editor, a very very special editor, the best. His close personal relationship to Trump merely reflects the inevitable pull of America's finest to him. People have told me he will be running this place very very soon.--Milowenthasspoken 16:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is no principle regarding U.S. Politics that he violated here so the proposal is baseless. The proper venue is AE with diffs. --DHeyward (talk) 17:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • ... This happened on an April Fools' edition of the Signpost. We're not gonna ban him from editing US politics when no evidence has been presented he's been doing damage in that area. Also, my impression is his outburst has more to do with the Signpost and Gamaliel than Trump, small hands or politics. In any case, we don't ban people on a hunch. Because that would be irrational. Wait... Wikipedia... irrational... syllogism! 31.153.35.116 (talk) 17:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support TBAN for all involved from the topic of small hands, including Poland Syndrome, Baby Hands, The Small Hand, Phocomelia, Thumb hypoplasia, Rett syndrome, and Ectrodactyly. Timothyjosephwood (talk)
  • Don't forget Doll Hands please! They are just creepy. Arkon (talk) 17:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I guess this would be a topic ban on me as well as I told Gamaliel on his talk page that I, indeed, have small hands. And I don't understand why saying someone had small hands would be offensive. #SmallHandPride LizRead! Talk! 18:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Every editor will need to have their hands measured before this discussion gets closed. Because our brains are too small for detection.--Milowenthasspoken 18:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The language used by Akron is against WP:CIVIL and therefore should certainly not be tolerated. However, I have not seen any evidence this was disruptive of the topic area where it is proposed he should be banned from. DHeyward is correct in suggesting it should be raised at AE with diffs, where a short-term block might be considered. DrChrissy (talk) 17:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Vulgarity as such is against no rules, as I understand Keilana recently reminded us. Are his edits in the topic area problematic? No diffs have been presented to that effect, and they are required for an allegation about editorial behavior. Yngvadottir (talk) 18:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am tired of the hyperbole around this purported BLP violation. It is a joke, and it references a meme that is in wide currency beyond Wikipedia. Trump may be comicaly sensitive about it, but genie is out of the bottle and well past any hope of control. Guy (Help!) 19:16, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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A reminder and a suggestion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I'd like to remind everyone that the Signpost is a collaborative effort. The buck stops with me. I'm willing to be the target of everyone's ire and suffer the consequences. But the idea that everything written in this article or in the entire Signpost somehow represents my personal viewpoints or is an attempt to push my ideology is nonsense. It’s insulting to the many other Signpost editors and contributors (including Fram, one of the loudest voices against me above) to say they do not write from their own minds or have their own viewpoints. The April Fools’ story in the Signpost was not designed as an ideological attempt to attack a presidential candidate, it was designed to pair Wikipedia’s biggest celebrity with the biggest celebrity in the news right now, at least in America, and be as loud and as over the top as possible. Three authors are listed in this story and as many as twelve people contributed in some form or another. They all have different opinions and political persuasions. This was a group effort, not a secret ideological attack from me, as some would contend, a charge that should not be taken seriously. In fact, it wasn’t even my idea to use Trump in our April Fools’ story in the first place.

It’s becoming a trend for some people who view me as their ideological antagonist to claim that the Signpost is “my mouthpiece” because I wrote something they didn’t like. It’s the mouthpiece of everyone who contributes to the Signpost each week, and it’s your mouthpiece too. Those who complain about having certain viewpoints represented either forget or ignore or do not know that their voices are welcome too. If some viewpoint doesn’t appear in the Signpost, it’s not that we’re trying to push a different one, it’s that nobody wrote it yet. You are welcome to do so. Hate April Fools’ Day and think it should be banned from Wikipedia? Do you think there’s too much swearing on Wikipedia? Do you disagree with something someone wrote in the Signpost? Do you want to disagree with a presidential candidate who isn’t Trump and it involves Wikipedia in some way? Write about it and we will publish it once it goes through our regular editorial processes, which are collaborative and involve the participation of numerous editors who are not me. Put your money where your mouth is. Instead of complaining about the alleged “agenda” of the Signpost, come set the “agenda” of the Signpost yourself. Gamaliel (talk) 19:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you say "The April Fools’ story in the Signpost was not designed as an ideological attempt to attack a presidential candidate, it was designed to pair Wikipedia’s biggest celebrity with the biggest celebrity in the news right now, at least in America, and be as loud and as over the top as possible.", when the actual page in question contained nothing of the sort. In fact, it stated that said person threatened to sue Wikipedia. Arkon (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
YEAH! YOU'VE GOT HIM AKRON! HAHA GAMALIEL WE GOT YOU NOW! YOUR SIDE PAGE LINK WAS UNRELATED! COMMENCE WATERBOARDING!--Milowenthasspoken 19:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That dummy subpage was created solely to make a Signpost template work in that April Fools' story. That dummy subpage is now deleted. Gamaliel(talk) 19:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about the sidepage. I'm talking about the original MFD that was linked in my original post. The one that started all of this. Edit: Sorry got you a Milowent's responses mixed and matched. The page in question had text, that had nothing to do with the actual April fools story (according to you above), but just happened to also say that a living person was threatening the sue Wikipedia. Is that suppose to be somehow better? Arkon (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Do you want to disagree with a presidential candidate who isn’t Trump and it involves Wikipedia in some way? - Have the editors who have raised objections to this year's series of April Fools articles not been sufficiently clear? Wikipedia is not a WP:SOAPBOX; not even The Signpost. We are not a publisher of political satire. Suggesting that we might apply the blowtorch to another living person, albeit of a different political persuasion, as a way of striking a balance is just incredibly tone deaf. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 19:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I worded that very carefully and yet here is the misunderstanding I wished to avoid. Please assume good faith here. I have no intention of publishing non-Wikipedia related jokes or satire when it is not April Fools' Day. (In fact we didn't even approach our April Fools' Day story intending to write political satire - Jimbo was our main target and I think he got the worst there, but nobody is complaining about that.) I wanted to address the contention that the Signpost was only publishing things from one political viewpoint. Obviously I would not publish a joke story that was political satire aimed at Obama next week to give the other side "equal time", but I do want to show that we are ready to publish viewpoints from that other side if they are about Wikipedia in some way, such as columns against proposed internet legislation by the president. Gamaliel(talk) 19:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What did the text on the page that was deleted at MFD, that brought us here, say that had to do with Jimmy? Arkon (talk) 19:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It said that Wikipedia, run by Jimmy Wales, had defamed our Lordship Donald J. Trump's elegant appendages.--Milowenthasspoken 19:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gamaliel, I wish to be clear as to why that particular quote was selected from the four subjects mentioned. To my mind, the other three are all suitable topics for inclusion in The Signpost - Hate April Fools’ Day and think it should be banned from Wikipedia? Do you think there’s too much swearing on Wikipedia? Do you disagree with something someone wrote in the Signpost? - all of these are fine, and I , for one, am deeply heartened by your calls for contributions from diverse perspectives. The fourth, I believe, crosses a line which we should not be crossing. Do you want to disagree with a presidential candidate ... ? - Our response should be, "Then go to a forum which provides a facility for expressing that disagreement". I am happy to disagree on this point, but I believe that our policies are clear on the matter. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 20:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you. I was trying to explain to those who disagree with me and believe politics is at the root of it that their voices were welcome. I believe political commentary is warranted when the issues involve Wikipedia, such as this Signpost column by Mike Godwin. I was not trying to encourage partisan politicking in the Signpost or anyplace else, as that has no place on Wikipedia. Gamaliel(talk) 21:53, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I agree that the column by Mike Godwin is an excellent one, and clearly a good inclusion in The Signpost. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 22:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Speaking of writing that is "incredibly tone deaf", may I introduce this pot, Mr. Kettle? April Foolery is a tradition on Wikipedia. So, too, are “hilarious” personal attacks -- those delightful Gamergate fans call me “Reichstag“ daily. DYK loves puns. It is more than preposterous to equate making fun of "small hands" -- a charge leveled by Marco Rubio, after all -- with "applying the blowtorch to another living person". If that means anything, I suppose it's an allusion to Robert Coover's The Public Burning, and you'll recall that the people who applied the blowtorch to two actually living persons in that affair were Republican zealots, too. And while we're on the subject of small hands, when a page you watch zealously was being used to suggest that a Nintendo marketing employee was a pedophile because she wrote an undergraduate essay, years ago, concerning Japanese artistic and romantic traditions -- well, Ryk72, which side were you on? When another Gamergate target’s page was used to publicize her (alleged, imagined) adolescent sexual history earlier this week, which side were you on?
This is a foolish topic about foolery. It’s also a tactical mistake; you may think this heroic defense of Donald Trump’s small hands will play well in the media, but I believe you'll find otherwise. It's a really bad idea to try to salvage an untenable attack by taking foolish foolery seriously. Lighten up. This parrot is dead. It has gone to meet its maker. It is an ex-parrot.
The cow, the old cow, she is dead;
It sleeps well, the horned head:
We poor lads, ’tis our turn now
To hear such tunes as killed the cow.
Also [128]MarkBernstein (talk) 20:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • No personal attack. I'm merely pointing out (again) that a bunch of people writing here cannot actually believe what they say. You wrote that Gamaliel was "applying a blowtorch to a living person," but (a) he demonstrably was not, (b) if he was, the same so-called blowtorch had demonstrably been applied by Marco Rubio, The NY Daily News, and The New Yorker, and (c) many of the posters here, yourself included, are demonstrably uninterested in preventing actual damage to the reputations and careers of actual living people. MarkBernstein (talk) 21:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This issue is about Gamaliel and their actions. I'm having trouble understanding what your whimsical delights, Gamergate, the media, and Nintendo have to do with it. I will admit I do enjoy your poems, but please try to keep them all in the section you created up above if you must continue to participate (even though Wikipedia is not a forum). Mr Ernie (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I’d love to take credit, but you ought to recognize that the poem is not my work, but is from A. E.Housman’s The Shropshire Lad. You could look it up. As to understanding the whimsical delights, I think you do yourself too little credit. I know I sometimes write allusively and that, since everyone can edit Wikipedia, some readers might be unfamiliar with nearly any allusion. Still, this is AN/I; I think we can assume we've all been to school. But if you really are confused and really do want help, I'm happy to unpack whatever has confused you. MarkBernstein (talk) 21:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is very much about Gamergate, it's why 90% of the participants are here and it's exploded out of control, just like anything involving Gamergate. Gamaliel(talk) 22:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is possible to independently hold an opinion of the quality of Wikipedia's documentation of the Gamergate controversy, the actions of editors & admins in influencing the quality of that documentation; and the purpose of The Signpost and appropriateness of this years April Fools articles. For the record, I am here because of a notice placed by Arkon on DHeyward's Talk page. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 22:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As, I suppose, the main instigator here, I barely even know what Gamergate is other than the boogeyman it seems to be used as by others deflecting attention from their own actions. So, am I in the 90%? Arkon (talk) 22:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked twice for clarification with no response, so to be clear for those who don't want to read all this mess: The thing Gamaliel just spent two large paragraphs defending, is not the MFD that is being questioned, or the root of the actions of that editor that are being criticized. Not sure what the point was. Arkon (talk) 20:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • You are completely wrong. The deleted "page" only existed to populate the sidebar text of the prank article as a silly flourish. Luckily thorough the power of MSPaint and Google cache I have preserved Gamaliel's atrocities.[129].--Milowenthasspoken 20:42, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Whatever it "only existed for" is not relevant to defending it's contents, which the above makes no attempt to do. It tries to frame the situation as a "This was a prank about Jimmy and Trump guys!". The page in question had nothing to do with Jimmy. How exactly does that page "pair Wikipedia’s biggest celebrity with the biggest celebrity in the news right now", which is the stated purpose apparently. Arkon (talk) 20:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This feigned denseness shows a rhetorical skill I cannot overcome. I concede.--Milowenthasspoken 20:53, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Report to the leader for proper mental conditioning at once. Arkon (talk) 20:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we put this on Commons? I have a feeling this will need to be explained again. Gamaliel(talk) 22:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not sure what you are trying to "explain", but I don't know jack about commons. Arkon (talk) 22:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I was attempting to reply to Milowent. Gamaliel (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we should also be clear that while some editors object only to the "sub-article", other editors, including myself, have strong objections to the whole suite of this year's April Fools articles on The Signpost; for the reasons specified above. - Ryk72'c.s.n.s.' 22:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Gamaliel, I hereby release that image into the public domain to the extent I have any rights. I didn't upload it to Commons because I assumed this would cause another subsection to be started "MILOWENT COMPOUNDS BLP HORROR".--Milowenthasspoken 22:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Ohhh, you mean the screenshot of the thing many many people have told you is a BLP vio. Yeah, sure, commons. Great idea. Arkon (talk) 22:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Many many Trump devotees.--Milowenthasspoken 22:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    May his hairness help us all. Arkon (talk) 22:32, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the buck stops with you, Gamaliel, might I suggest that you take a lesson from Google? They thought their April Fools joke was hilarious. Many did not. Google responded by admitting they erred, apologizing and moving on. This idiotic argument persists because, while your joke fell equally flat, you have remained unwilling to do any of that. You and the Signpost tried to be funny. It failed. C'est la vie. However, if you had just offered your mea cupla for that and accepted that the joke sucked, this would have been over days ago. So let that be your reminder and suggestion. Resolute 22:12, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I admit the subpage was a mistake and in retrospect I should have found a better way to do that. The whole story is still hilarious. Remember what Pablo Neruda said: "Laughter is the language of the soul.". Gamaliel (talk) 22:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • And your actions in regard to said subpage? We might be getting somewhere. Arkon (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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This is a complete waste of time now

Between the snark, incivility, and people losing their heads over trivial things... I don't see anything good coming out of this anymore. Can someone please just put this entire thing out of it's misery? --Tarage (talk) 20:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Jesus H Christ, Support close. It's been a fun read, but this is clearly going nowhere. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 21:54, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • A close seems fine to me, but I'd actually like to see a good bit of the sub-sections closed separately. There is consensus on quite a few things. Arkon (talk) 21:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I...uh...I'm not so much seeing that. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 23:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --SB_Johnny talk✌ 02:36, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Appeal for removal of ban

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Hi, according to a January 2015 consensus, I was banned from creating BLPs. I at that time massly created poor quality stubs BLPs and even articles about non-notable persons; in rush. Experience has showed me that my actions were wrong. Since then I had promoted the following articles:

In recent times, I also did not have any conflict with any user about BLPs. It is my earnest request to have my ban revoked. One of the reason is that since now is my holidays, I want to promote more DYKs. I also understand that I will not repeat my behaviour. RRD13 দেবজ্যোতি (talk) 10:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I also urge to look at my Contributions. RRD13 দেবজ্যোতি (talk) 11:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This has been appealed three times before: In July 2015 Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive271#Appeal, again in July 2015 (Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive273#Appeal) and in October 2015 (Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive274#Appeal). —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 10:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will say, though, that getting GAs and DYKs on BLP topics, including on sportspeople—when such articles were one of the main reasons for the topic ban—makes me inclined to support this request. That said I haven't taken a deep look just yet. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 10:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest On a basis of good fath and the fact that over a year has passed, that the ban is removed- but with the proviso that the first time such behaviour reappears, the editor is to be immediately sanctioned, by the first available admin, with no requirement to appear before a board. Such action would be, not punative, but preventative: as by now the community knows what would happen. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 10:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another option: If it doesn't look like lifting the ban will happen, is to allow creating whatever in draftspace and submitting it to AfC. I know in one of the last appeal discussions this was suggested, but I think it was after conversation died. Anyway I do support such a plan as an option, though I still have no opinion on an outright lifting of the topic ban. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 11:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support lifting, this is exactly the pattern we're looking for in an appeal. Blocks and sanctions are cheap, and can be imposed immediately if the original problematic behavior continues, but it now appears likely that WP will benefit by allowing this editor to create new BLPs. Zad68 12:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, RRD13 seems to have got to grips with sourcing and article quality standards, the risk of repeat issues looks low on the face of it and a fix is easy if it does recur. Guy (Help!) 13:25, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above comments. The appellant has demonstrated a record indicating dramatic improvement in content creation and appears to recognize and accept their previous problematic behavior. If the problem were to recur it would be fairly easy to put the ban back in place. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support now that I've looked a bit more. Looks like a much better grasp of standards than we saw before. Time to give Royroydeb a chance! —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 22:49, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: This is precisely the behavior we want to encourage from topic-banned users. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - User's improved alot since 2015 and seems to understand policies etc so see no reason to leave the ban in place. –Davey2010Talk 01:48, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Gongwool HOUNDING over COI

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Do you all remember Elvey hounding me over COI matters and interfering with COI interactions in a way that lacked competence, reflected battleground, and made WP look bad? The community first TBANed him from COI matters since he was making a mess of things, and when he blew that off, gave him a 3 month site ban.

Welcome to round 2, now with Gongwool digging his own hole, violating several policies and guidelines in the process. But more than anything, this is just incompetent hounding. Gongwool is upset because of an interaction we had at his talk page a few weeks ago. He jumped on the recent False accusation thread here about me, writing these remarks and this, misunderstanding what TParis had written just before him.

Today, I reached out to CollegeTrader, who per their contribs is a WP:SPA for the Twinlab dietary supplement company and two sons of the founder, and is highly likely to have some connection there.

  • i first provided them the standard welcome message, as no one had, then
  • I provided them with a standard COI notice, and asked them to disclose any connection.

Gongwool decided to follow me there (was apparently watching my contribs), and in two diffs with inflammatory edit notes here and here (the second claiming I was violating OUTING) changed my comment (didn't delete the whole thing, but edited it - Gongwool is aware this is wrong, as i had told them about it previously)

  • I restored my full comment, and left Gongwool a strong warning not to continue hounding me and telling him to ask me, if they don't understand what I am doing. Gongwool removed it.
  • Gongwool then went back to the Talk page and partially removed content again, this time a "hidden template" that is part of the template:uw-coi, with another edit note reflecting that they don't know what they are talking about, but sure are angry.
  • I restored that, and gave Gongwool an edit warring notice, which included an explanation of the template, and another request to ask me if they don't understand. And I warned them that if they interfered one more time, I would bring them to ANI. Gongwool also removed that, calling it harassment.
  • Gongwool then went to the Talk page of Tparis, trying to rile TParis up, here. TParis advised Gongwool not to chase me around.
  • So Gongwool decided to go back to Collegetrader's talk page and leave an angry, interfering, and confused note to CollegeTrader, attacking me. None of that helps CollegeTrader understand Wikipedia or even address the COI concern, but just makes this place look terrible.

That was quite the last straw. Being unhappy with me is one thing, but interfering with a COI interaction in this ugly and incompetent way, is not tolerable.

Please block Gongwool for 48 hours with a warning that further actions like this will lead to longer blocks, and please remove his message from CollegeTrader's Talk page. (although that user is probably a lost cause by now, with Gongwool creating a circus there) That is all I will ask for, for now. Jytdog (talk) 05:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog has lied above and misrepresented the sequence of events above and refused to take User talk:TParis' advice on the matter of "walking away" (I certainly will). On his points above, point 5 occurred prior to point 4 (he changed that order on purpose to mislead I guess). He has already threatened me twice today that ANI editors will side with him and ban me if I continue to disagree with him. I suggest if anything he gets a WP:BOOMERANG, but I don't care, for him for falsely accusing me of WP:COI (amongst other things) and when I refused to allow him to provoke WP:BITE me, he left abusive unprovoked comments including the full unredacted word "C*NT" on my talkpage which highly offended me. I disprove of his WP:BITE and WP:BULLYing of newbies, his false threats, abuse of policy, his relying on AN/I to destroy those who disagree with him, and his compulsive-excessiveness of no end. I will no longer discuss this issue here as jytdog is giving WP a bad name (even in the tech press I notice). Giving in to his demands will only further the demise of WP editors that has been reported in the press. Bye, take care. Gongwool (talk) 06:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
However you feel, your actions at CollegeTrader's talk page were disruptive and incompetent. I have not pursued you; you are pursuing me. Period.
  • What you call a "false accusation" was a standard inquiry here, given the vehemence with which you were pursuing the Brian Martin / Judith Wilyman matters that became the subject of a very long thread here at ANI, in which several editors pointed out how aggressive you were being; it was not unlikely that you had WP:BLPCOI issues given your vehemence and so the question had a basis. That was our first interaction.
  • I apologized for the "cunt" thing here, which was related to this dif I left on your page. You wisely removed the thing I reacted to later, in any case. Thanks, though, for bringing that up, as it shows how you are very, very clearly pursuing a grudge that has nothing to do with improving the encyclopedia.
In any case, you expressed your intention to interfere with my COI work very clearly here (dif already above) and here (dif already given above) and just tonight in your header here (dif already given above) and this new diff. I expected what you did today, to happen. I have seen this before. And with your comment above, you have made it even more clear that you intend to keep being disruptive, even if you are agreeing to stop for a week. And your comment is still standing at User_talk:Collegetrader.
What I warned you about, was not "disagreeing" with me. I don't mind discussing things with people who disagree with me and I asked you to talk to me when I gave you warnings. What I was warning you about, was your actual interference at CollegeTrader's Talk page. That behavior (not your ideas) was disruptive and intolerable.
If you really do agree to back off from hounding me and interfering with me, I will drop this. If you do not agree to actually stop (taking a break for a week is not agreeing to stop) , I believe that the community will block you for being disruptive and being clear that you intend to continue. I have no desire to interact with you, but I will of course respond if you ask me about these COI matters instead of interfering. Do you agree to stop interfering with my COI discussions? That is the issue here. Jytdog (talk) 07:20, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
More insults, imaginary scenarios, false interpretations of COI, threats etc from the big bad jytdog. And apparently all his Admin mates on ANI are going to side with his WP:BULLYing of many/me and have me banned (so he says). He considers one or two instances of questioning him on his WP:BITE to be 'hounding', he's flattering himself. I have no interest in associating with someone so socially "incompetent" (his insult in reverse) as him. Gongwool (talk) 08:03, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is not an answer. Do you agree to stop interfering with my COI interactions? Yes or no? And will you self revert this? This is not a joke. I take my interactions over COI very, very seriously - I have a ton of risk in doing them from several angles - and you cannot laugh off what you did today nor the threat that you will do it again in the future. Jytdog (talk) 08:06, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gongwool, stay out of Jytdog's COI-investigation-and-handling activity. You are a new and very inexperienced user -- here less than three months and with less than 630 edits. Jytdog is the most experienced and active COIN editor we have, and generally handles COIN matters as fairly as he can, as he interprets Wikipedia's best interests. He's not perfect, but he is doing good work re: COI. I support a topic ban for Gongwool from COI matters if he does not voluntarily withdraw from that himself. Furthermore, under no circumstances should you or any editor edit another person's post on someone else's talk page. Softlavender (talk) 08:29, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Softlavender. I think that's a fine idea, I agree to not challenge jtydog's bullying and frivolous accusations against other Newbies if he apologises to me for false accusation of COI. Can you please arrange for his apology to me of his frivolous COI accusation of me that was so frivolous he dropped it months back (like most his accusations). Thanks for your support, I will be of assistance to you once this compromise is reached. Gongwool (talk) 08:50, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry you are now offended by our discussion of COI and advocacy, in the remarks and questions I made here, your response here, my further remarks here, and your thanks, here. That was the extent of it, and I am sorry that offends you now. Please self-revert your comment at CollegeTrader and please say you will never interfere again. Jytdog (talk) 08:57, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gongwool, if you continue in this antagonistic vein, you are likely to experience a sanction for disruptive editing. I personally advise withdrawing from COI matters, withdrawing your complaints against Jytdog, and ending your accusations and personal attacks, before a (possibly worse) sanction is forceably imposed upon you. Softlavender (talk) 09:04, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Stop being a WP:DICK GW. Admins should make you stop, imho.-Roxy the dog™ woof 09:07, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good, thank you mam/sir. Apology accepted an never accuse me of COI again please. And I will not question your poor treatment of newbies. But I (like all the rest) can comment on ANI if an issue arises. I may be banned from COI discussions but I can't be banned from ANI discussions??? Gongwool (talk) 09:06, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, of course you could. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 09:18, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Gongwool, and everybody. Gongwool you are not banned from anything, just don't muck around when I am trying to work with people on COI like you did on CollegeTrader. I think you understand that now. I have gone ahead and reverted Gongwool's edit at CollegeTrader and I consider this done and am closing it as there is nothing outstanding I have no desire for further escalation. If anybody thinks it is not done they can of course re-open it. Jytdog (talk) 09:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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User 331905A4 creating hoax drafts.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This user seems to create many hoax article drafts, and also edit them while logged out. --Laber□T 09:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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User:Yamla

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have inform you all about User:Yamla. his behavior became very erratic and irrelevant. While add some details on Progressive Conservative Association of Alberta but every time he interfere revert again and again the article seems to be constructive But now I realized It's time to pull the the plug do you agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.199.255.236 (talk) 12:21, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Time to pull the plug on your disruptive trolling, certainly! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 12:37, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Listen to all of you clearly I am not vandalizing the article!!!!just add some missing details on it. Gee what's wrong all of you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.199.121.128 (talk) 14:32, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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User talk page spamming at FLC

Key issue here: Violation of WP:CANVASSING and specifically, WP:VOTESTACK.

I'm quite concerned about User talk page spamming at FLC for Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Mohanlal filmography/archive1 by FLC nominator Inside the Valley (talk · contribs).

FLC started at 15:50, 3 March 2016. Immediately after that, Inside the Valley (talk · contribs) spammed user talk pages of no less than at least eighteen (18) users.

The user Inside the Valley (talk · contribs) response is to deny this is spamming: "Spamming is subjective, hence spam messages are different for each user. If my message regarding the FLC was an unwanted subject. Then it is definitely a spam. You can always ignore or delete it and warn me. But I don't think I have "spammed" every user talk pages I messaged."

Relevant DIFFs, below:

  1. User talk:Skr15081997
  2. User talk:Cirt
  3. User talk:ChrisTheDude
  4. User talk:Krish!
  5. User talk:Ruby2010
  6. User talk:Krimuk90
  7. User talk:IndianBio
  8. User talk:SNUGGUMS
  9. User talk:Famous Hobo
  10. User talk:Rschen7754
  11. User talk:MPJ-DK
  12. User talk:LavaBaron
  13. User talk:Dough4872
  14. User talk:Bharatiya29
  15. User talk:Yashthepunisher
  16. User talk:Jakec
  17. User talk:NapHit
  18. User talk:Vensatry

Thank you,

Cirt (talk) 22:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Clear canvassing. Who is he kidding? --QEDK (TC) 04:07, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
* Not spamming or votestacking, that message was neutrally worded, which is key for something to be called Canvassing. KoshVorlon 11:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, sending a message to people who've never had something to do with the topic is essentially spamming (falls within canvassing) which I presume is the problem. Also, Cirt claims votestacking which means informing editors who have a predetermined POV about the topic (which again falls within canvassing). --QEDK (TC) 15:28, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There are 4 types of inappropriate canvassing:
  • Stealth - The use of secret canvassing, which is not being done
  • Spamming - A message sent out to a very large audience individually, which has not been done (I consider 10-15 to be a limited set)
  • Campaigning - A message that is intended to get the audience to vote a certain way. I believe the message is appropriately nuetral.
  • Votestacking - Sending a message out to an audience believed to be supportive. This is where a wrong may have occured.
The question is where did Inside the Valley (talk·contribs) get the list that they chose to send their message out to. I checked the WikiProject page Japan, and I don't see all of these members on these. I also checked the contributors to the article and not all of these members are there. So, the answer we need from Inside the Valley (talk·contribs) is, why did they chose to contact this set of people?--v/r - TP 02:11, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The last kind of canvassing is the type that we at FLC would be concerned about. I must confess that I feel a certain amount of sympathy for anyone who has to make the decision whether to notify other users of an FAC or FLC. Anyone who pays attention to our content processes knows that many reviews are archived because they fail to attract enough attention (we could always use more, BTW), and even many of our finest content producers will notify peer reviewers and trustworthy editors of a new review. The line between drawing the attention of good reviewers and attempting to stack votes is very thin, but I'd say informing 18 different people of a review is way above and beyond what any review needs. As for why they chose these people, I don't know. To single out one editor's view, Vensatry has criticized possible canvassing in the past. Maybe they are users who have supported previous FLCs they have started, but you'd have to check his previously promoted FLCs to know for sure. Also, the user identifies as Indian and the list involves an Indian subject, so that WikiProject may be more relevant than the Japanese one. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:50, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just to add to TParis's list, "spamming" and "votestacking" don't have to involve a message being sent, but can also, at least in theory, consist of pinging a large number of users or a potentially sympathetic audience of users. (I don't know if pinging users in a non-neutral message would qualify as "campaigning", though.) This didn't happen here, but I'm a bit of a pedant, and felt the need to conclude TParis's point. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I've seen people accused of canvassing because they pinged like 10 admins in one thread, requesting them to take a look because the thread is stagnant. --QEDK (TC) 03:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, obviously I don't consider all pinging to constitute canvassing. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:49, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marcus Toji

After someone put the {{unreliable sources}} template at the top of Marcus Toji, I simply requested that {{bcn}} be placed on the specific sources that are not suitable, as having the general tag at the top of the article does little good. This was responded to with a block warning. Placing this tag on the article for a third time violates WP:BRD, and I do not wish to violate WP:3RR. What are the next steps? --Jax 0677 (talk) 13:10, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have informed the editor that you are discussing him here, as required. In any case, you're both edit-warring over a tag. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 13:16, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As did I around the same time. I signed mine tho! SQLQuery me! 13:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Great minds think alikeFace-wink.svg that was deliberate, so he didn't think it was me reporting him. Thanks though! FortunaImperatrix Mundi 13:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of lawsuit controversy, addition of puffery at Marcus & Millichap

On Marcus & Millichap, several IP users have been persistently removing a "Lawsuit controversy" section and adding puffery. When removing the Lawsuit controversy section, the edit summary usually claims that it's "out of context". However, to my eyes, the section is pretty well balanced, and even incorporates a quote from the company's response.

Of particular note, the IP 107.1.246.134 is the most active one of these editors. It's worth noting that the IP is connected to a Comcast Business account in the same region where Marcus & Millichap is headquartered, and has never made edits to any page but this article. They add lots of puffery and have participated in the repeated removal of the lawsuit section.

I have tried reaching out to these editors on the article's talk page and on their talk pages, but they never respond to me, and just keep making the same changes with the same edit summaries. Thus, I'm bringing this to AN/I. I think 107.1.246.134 should probably be blocked, and the page should probably have pending changes or semi-protection turned on. Cheers, IagoQnsi (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • There's a history of problematic editing, both pro and con, from IPs at that article. I have semi'd it for one year. Zad68 13:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Undisclosed paid editing

User:Ottaway is a clear undisclosed paid editor, who clearly works for Ottaway Digital Communications. The evidence is their username, and they've created 2 articles, both of which link to Otterway Digital Communications:

  1. Stevens Worldwide Van Lines, [130] shows that they're a client of Ottaway Digital Communications
  2. Classical Music America, [131] shows it's owned by Bob Otterway, who is President of Ottaway communications per [132].

This information does not constitute outing as their username makes it blatantly obvious to connect the dots through simple Google searches, and I believe the user should be blocked as not here as well as for failing to provide a paid editing disclosure, as required by Wikimedia Terms of Use. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that their username is a clear disclosure. But besides WP:COI, we can also block based on WP:Username policy.--v/r - TP 18:25, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source misrepresentation and disruptive editing by nationalist editor

Ferakp (talk · contribs) is making source misrepresentations and deleting sourced information:

  • He writes about an Amnesty International report: "However, Amnesty International has published only one report about the Syrian Kurdish forces and it is related to destroying villages and homes, not ethnic cleansing at all." [133]
    • However in reality, the report concludes that "The Amnesty International report concluded that there are documented cases of forced displacement that constitute war crimes."[134]
  • Here he changes the direct quote from a book ("Iraq's Dysfunctional Democracy") to something else: [135]
    • He changes: "The goal of these tactics is to push Shabak and Yazidi communities to identify as ethnicKurds. The Kurdish authorities are working hard to impose Kurdish identity on two of the most vulnerable minorities in Iraq, the Yazidis and the Shabaks".
      • to: "One of the goal of these tactics is to make Shabak and Yazidi communities to identify as ethnic Kurds. Some Kurdish nationalist have previously tried to impose Kurdish identity on two of the most vulnerable minorities in Iraq, the Yazidis and the Shabaks"."
  • He changes all occurences to the practice of Female Genital Mutilation to the past, but in reality it is still widely practiced in Northern Iraq: [137][138][139]
    • He also deletes that Female Genital Mutilation is practiced from the intro, even though it is well documented in the article: [140]
  • He changes 60 percent to "some of them" and deletes cited information: [141] After a source was added that a honour killing victim was Kurdish, he still removes all mention that she was also Kurdish. He claims that he is confused because one of the sources calls her Turkish, but all Turkish Kurds are also Turkish! [142]
  • He was warned many times on his talkpage but always swiftly removes all warnings from his talkpage.--92.106.49.6 (talk) 23:09, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@92.106.49.6: Amnesty International report is not related to ethnic cleansing at all, it is related to forced displacement and home demolitions. Here is the original report of Amnesty International, you can download it here.[1] Remember that sources you added were "clearly" lying about the report since the report itself never even mention words "ethnic cleansing". So simply the source which says that Amnesty International is accusing them of ethnic cleansing is 100% wrong and biased. About Female Genital Mutilation, two sources were used in one citation and I noticed it after admin marked them. In my second edit, I added a lot of details but he wanted to keep it simple and statements clear so I let it be. Sources you use in Kurdish woman rights are 2-3 years old and it is illegal at this moment. You have been detected at least two times from blackwashing the article. Also, your another friend was caught from blackwashing: Replacing my details with old sources' details even though I had newer sources there. I added sources that the practice is declined and it is now illegal. Also, some of mentioned areas in those reports are now almost clear from FGM as one of my sources says so. That's why I changed them to the past. About Hatun Surucu, she is Turkish, this is because all sources say so. Only your source call she is Kurdish. Here are sources: [2][3][4]<--- This source is new from January 2016. One more source, [5]. All sources say that she is Turkish. You have one source but I have 9 source, including BBC and Spiegel! I have warned by 4 guys and 2 of them were banned or blocked. I remove everything from my talk page, whether it is positive or negative except that sweet Kitty which I got from admin. Also, I am 100% behind my Kurdification changes, I simply neutralized statements. You are absolutely trying to blackwash Kurdish articles. Ferakp (talk) 23:43, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Reply: Ethnic cleansing is forced displacement.
Yes, Female Genital Mutilation was made illegal, but the law is not being enforced, a fact which you also deleted from the article: [143] By the way, which source says that it really declined? It is still widely practiced in Iraqi Kurdistan, so it is wrong to claim that it was only practiced in the past. Your deletions in the featured articled on FGM were also reverted.
Regarding Hatun (the honor killing victim), you already know that on the talkpage there are many sources that show that she is from a Kurdish family, so your reply is disingenuous.--92.106.49.6 (talk) 00:09, 27 March 2016 (UTC) @Spacecowboy420: @EkoGraf: @Patetez: @Denizyildirim: @Opdire657: @Gala19000:--92.106.49.6 (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@92.106.49.6: Law is accepted, can you read at all? Your source says that it is not enforced and it is from 2012. My source is from 2015 and it clearly says that it is now law and accepted. Read it, here is my source [1]. Here is your source, [2]. Here is my source about declining: [3]. It is from 2015 and it says: In the case of FGM, the Iraqi-German nongovernmental organization WADI estimates that around 72% of adult women in Iraqi Kurdistan have undergone the operation. But among girls aged 6 to 10, the rate has dropped to close to zero in some parts of Kurdistan, such as Halabja and Garmiyan, and decreased by half in other places such as Raniya. The usual age for the practice is between ages 4 and 8, according to WADI. Researchers and activists such as Taha are quick to point out that the existing anti-domestic violence law in Kurdistan, passed in 2011, is likely to be the first of its kind in Asia to address FGM. The draft allows girls subjected to FGM to file lawsuits against the perpetrator and those who forced them to undergo the operation. If the girl is a minor, she can file a lawsuit through a trustee. Another source [4] and source even says directly that it is declined "In the study, there is evidence for a trend of general decline of FGM. It seems that nowadays less than 50% of the young girls are being mutilated.". About that honor killing woman, I showed BBC, Spiegel and other top newspapers sources, that's what they say. About your talk page sources. The first one belongs to Welt, it's very weird that one of source is also from Welt and it says she is Turkish not Kurdish. Your second source is from Speigel and it doesn't mention her ethnicity, it says about documentary, but my Spiegel source says she is Turkish. Also, my BBC source says she is Turkish. One of users changed it to Turkish-Kurdish and I didn't touch it anymore. Wikipedia rules says more reliable sources win. About ethinic cleansing changes: Ethnic cleansing and forced displacements are totally different things. Amnesty doesn't call it as ethnic cleasing. I showed you the original Amnesty report and it does not blame them from ethnic cleansing. If you don't believe me, read the original source and you can also call them and ask them yourself, do you accuse the YPG of ethnic cleansing or not. Amnesty International knows better than you and me when to call events as ethnic cleansing or not. Ferakp (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have done thousands of edits and improvements and sometimes some users are not happy but I have never vandalized or caused any problems. I explained my Female genital mutilation edits above. About Iraqi Kurdistan changes, the source doesn't say anything like that. The statement in the article said that "Human Rights Watch reported that female genital cutting is practiced mainly by Kurds in Kurdistan; reportedly 60% percent of Kurdish women population have undergone this procedure, although the KRG claimed that the figures are exaggerated." <---- This is absolutely falsified statement. Source talk about Iraqi Kurdistan not about Kurdistan. They are totally different things. Also, I couldn't find that "60%" from the source. This source was used --> [5]. About change of this link, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kurdish_women&type=revision&diff=709007260&oldid=706367606. The first one says that ...also continue to face numerous problems, including violent victimization through female genital mutilation, honor killings, forced marriage, child marriage, rape, domestic violence, female infanticide and acid throwing. This is absolutely not true, we are talking about all Kurdish women. There is one reported acid throwing and it's very old, so how could it be continuous? I deleted them from lead but left them in the article. I didn't remove them, they are all still in the article and people can read it. FGM is only in Iran. In Turkey, Syria and Iraqi, it's illegal. Honor killings are problems and it already tells that it's continuing. Domestic violence is also mentioned in its section and also others. I added much more details to lead section. Before my edits it was totally blackwashed. Du'a Khalil Aswad is Yazidi and Yazidis are not the Kurds. They are Yazidis. Also, the articles with its sources says that she is Iraqi Yazidi.
I added this Honor killings was serious problem among Muslim communities until Iraq illegalized it.. It's true, it was legal but now illegal. It was serious problem among Muslim communities. Also, source says so.

Changed media to Turkish media because source says so. Other changes are adding more details. I just added more details and neutralized statements. The report from Iraqi Kurdistan is not related to the all Kurds. That's why many were changed to some when all Kurds were mentioned. Also, In Iraq, non-Kurdish women and society are more liberal. Especially under Saddam Hussein, women had many rights and liberties, including strong economic rights. [6] was removed. The source doesn't mention where that information was gathered and it is based to what study. Because the source is blog (thread) and only some of statements are cited, I see it as a unreliable source. In the source, "In Iraq, non-Kurdish women and society are more liberal" statement was not mentioned but another statement was mentioned. However, because it is blog/thread, I see it as unreliable source. As far as I know, blogs and thread in forums are not allowed as sources. I might be wrong. The only mistake I did was removing this statement -- >The Free Women's Organization of Kurdistan (FWOK) released a statement on International Women's Day 2015 noting that “6,082 women were killed or forced to commit suicide during the past year in Iraqi Kurdistan, which is almost equal to the number of the Peshmerga martyred fighting Islamic State (IS),” and that a large number of women were victims of honor killings or enforced suicide – mostly self-immolation or hanging.[7] However, the source didn't work and I tried very hard to find it but I didn't. The link is still not working. Also, I tried to find the report from the organization's website but I didn't find it. Ferakp (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Could an admin review and see whether a topic ban would be appropriate?--92.106.49.6 (talk) 01:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My message to reviewer. I have done nothing wrong except in FGM article, I didn't notice the source. I explained all my changes and this is the first time someone reports me. I have edited and improved tons of times and for me it's normal that there is sometimes users who are against my changes, but I have always solved disputes. If you are going to give me a ban, please give me a permanent ban, not topic ban. I am so tired of users like 92.106.49.6 and similar users which have nothing to do than blackwash articles related to the Kurds. Thank you Ferakp (talk) 03:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ferkp, when a government bans FGM, that doesn't stop it from happening to girls. Enforcement of anti-FGM legislation is poor all over the world, with the exception of France. And laws don't change the fact that women who had already undergone FGM before the change in the law continue to live with its health consequences. There was a high prevalence of FGM among adult women in Iraqi Kurdistan in 2011, according to UNICEF. You removed the information. When you were reverted, you tried to change the context in which it was presented, and also tried to present it as Iraq, not as Iraqi Kurdistan. That kind of editing is a problem. SarahSV (talk) 03:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Did I say somewhere that it stops it? I said that it is illegal now. The user who reported me still claim that it is not enforced but I showed source that it is accepted and it is official law. Iraqi Kurdistan is Iraq. There no such country Iraqi Kurdistan. The source mentions Kirkuk and Kirkuk is not the Iraqi Kurdistan, it's officially Iraq. It is illegal now in Iraqi Kurdistan and that has killed the practice in many regions as my newest sources say. I didn't change the context, I added details but you removed them without any reason, explaining by something very weird reason. There was high prevalence and that information was still there after my edits. My edits didn't remove any details, it still kept details. One edit I made by mistake and it was related to statistics. In another edit, I was thinking to add much more details to ethnicity section but you didn't even leave me to edit it. As I said, I made mistake and I accept it. I have edited and improved thousands of times and sometimes you make mistakes. If I get ban then at least I know I am in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. Ferakp (talk) 05:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Blackwashing is not best handled by whitewashing, but by changing the article to be neutral. WP:NPOV --OpenFuture (talk) 05:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's has been my main objective in previous 300 edits. You can see from my contributions that my edits have related mainly to neutrality. Ferakp (talk) 15:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Neutrality" by hiding everything related to FGM and honour killings, or claiming that it was the Turkish families, not Turkish-Kurdish ones (as it was). Everything that doesn't hide the facts about Female Genital Mutilation, honour killings or forced displacement of minorities is "blackwashing", even UNICEF and Amnesty International [150]. But you have now qualms in "blackwashing" the whole time Turks[151], Arabs[152], Iranians, and others. Ferakp also just removed the entire human right section from the [153], because the content is already in the Human rights article. But at least a summary of the human rights should be left. --92.106.49.6 (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2016 (UTC) @GGT:@Ottomanor:@Chickchick77:[reply]
Looks like you have nothing to do than following my changes from my contr+ page and pasting them here. Why don't you also tell us how I stopped one "Turkish" user who vandalized more than 13 Kurdish articles? About this the edit [154], Rojava has its own article for Human right in Rojava, it is called Human Rights in Rojava. I transferred those statements and sources from Rojava article to Human rights in Rojava.
Can you tell what is wrong with this edit?-->[155]. Kurds are mentioned with "Kurdish" and I also mentioned Turkish guy with "Turkish" name because he was a Turk according to all sources. Ordinary Turkish mentality, try to always blame the Kurds.
[156] : What makes this edit blackwashing if source says so directly? Source says (page 7): The available source material suggests that honour killings primarily occur among tribal peoples such as Kurdish, Lori, Arab, Baluchi and Turkish-speaking tribes. These groups are considered to be more socially conservative than the Persians, and discrimination against women in attitude and in practice is seen as being deeply rooted in tribal culture. The page was blackwashed to show only the Kurds but I neutralized and mentioned all who practice it in Iran. Ferakp (talk) 16:00, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the original points I made above, Ferakp has:
  • On the first point about the Amnesty International report, he still fails to see that forced displacement is a form of ethnic cleansing. (source misrepresentation)
  • He hasn't said anything about changing a direct quote from a book (source misrepresentation)
  • He admitted a mistake in deleting FGM statistics from UNICEF
  • He still fails to see why he shouldn't change all occurences to the practice of Female Genital Mutilation to the past (and delete FGM from the lead, and delete that it is practiced in "Iraqi Kurdistan"), while in reality it is still widely practiced in Iraqi Kurdistan (source misrepresentation) Yes, Female Genital Mutilation was made illegal, but the law is not being enforced, a fact which he also deleted from the article: [228]
  • He disingenuously still claims that Hatun (the honour killing victim) is not Kurdish, even though he knows on the talkpage [157] there are plenty of sources saying she is Turkish-Kurdish [158] (and in the German wikipedia page). In another case, he even specifies that a man from Turkey is a "Turkish" man from Turkey [159]. He also makes false claims in articles as here [160].
  • Going through his edits, there are plenty of cases of Ferakp misrepresenting sources, deleting incovenient facts, adding false claims, ... --92.106.49.6 (talk) 22:19, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Try to understand me a little bit. You can't call the event as ethnic cleansing because your "logic" see connection between their acts and ethnic cleansing acts. There is standards and requirements for calling something as ethnic cleansing. Amnesty International uses that word carefully because you have to come with tons of evidences. You can't call that event as ethnic cleansing if only ~180 houses are destroyed in 19 different locations. Look, for example Amnesty International use in another their report words"ethnic cleansing" because they classify it as a ethnic cleansing. [1] The reason why they didn't call it ethnic cleansing in the YPG/PYD related article is because it's a far away from to be classified as a ethnic cleansing. You are just trying to blackwash Kurdish articles. Admit it. This is 7th time you are clearly trying to blackwash Kurdish articles.
Which book?
They are past events, because it is law now and it is illegal. Your sources were from 2011 and 2012. Law was accepted in 2015 and as my source says it has almost killed the practice in many regions.
There is tons of sources which say that she is Turkish and you show me a few sources which say she is Kurdish. Also, my newest source is from this year. However, I let one user to keep it Turkish-Kurdish because that was our optimal solution.
What is the problem with this edit, [2]? Can you tell me? I added small survey to the front of survey because it was small survey. Look what the source says: The survey group was small but the results are a reminder... My 8th evidence that you are trying to blackwash Kurdis articles.
Excuse me can you show my your claims about "Going through his edits, there are plenty of cases of Ferakp misrepresenting sources, deleting incovenient facts, adding false claims"? It's clear that you are blackwashing Kurdish articles. I have 8 clear evidences that you are trying to blackwash Kurdish articles, I would have reported you and requested ban but you are one of those who change their IPs every time so I won't waste admin's time for such thing.Ferakp (talk) 16:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@SlimVirgin: Thanks for the source SarahV, I will use it to update articles.Ferakp (talk) 04:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You have been caught at least 9 times from blackwashing Kurdish articles, calling me nationalist editor, trying to show my edits which are related to neutralization as blackwashings and following me. You are clearly blackwashing Kurdish articles, as I proved above, if someone has to get warning or ban, it should be you.Ferakp (talk) 16:03, 28 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ferakp's confrontational tone and disruptive style can be seen from the discussion above, with his clear ad hominem arguments to justify his actions and allusion to criminal proceedings ("caught"). I have also suffered from his lack of collaboration personally; as soon as we had an editing issue on Yaşar Kemal, he posted this to my talk page claiming that I was editing from a Turkish POV and using Wikipedia as the Turkish government's encyclopedia. Ferakp not only misrepresents sources as evidenced above, but also editoralises to imply a particular position. This can be seen here in his unsourced addition, which implies that Amnesty was cornered by YPG's claims, and more blatantly here, where he adds a statement that is undoubtedly correct (perhaps as there were no military casualties) but is not part of the literature concerning the event and about which he could not even find a source to support, in order to push TAK's viewpoint that the Turkish government hides military casualties in this attack ostensibly targeted to the military. Also see this. He has also repeatedly removed reliably sourced material, seen here about statements regarding the persecutions of Assyrians and human rights in an attempt to whitewash. Despite the fact that the Yezidis are described as Kurdish in the relevant article (I am no expert on the issue and any disputes on ethnic identity belong there), Ferakp has repeatedly removed negative incidents involving Yazidi women from the article on Kurdish women without specifying the "sources" against Daily Mail as in here for example. In the same article, he has removed more and more reliably sourced details about violence against Kurdish women from the article (e.g. Human Rights Watch, a Kurdish newspaper) claiming that these were "blackwashing". When it came to ascribing positive topics Kurdishness, however, he manipulates sources as amply evidenced above: here, for example, when his sources do not define him as Kurdish but use the term "of Kurdish origin", which is how it currently is in the article (one of his sources actually defines Kemal as Turkish, obviously alluding to nationality, as opposed to ethnicity). Source manipulation can also be seen here, when he himself admits that two languages were spoken in the family but writes otherwise.
  • Now, it is Ferakp's turn to come and claim that I am an anti-Kurdish Turkish nationalist and write lengthy refutations, which is getting really tiresome by now. I hope, however, that the evidence above will help establish the destructive and disruptive pattern that characterises this user's editing. --GGT (talk) 12:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am 100% behind my messages and edits which you mentioned. About Yasar Kemal, I told you so many times that the person was Kurdish, not a Turk. I added sources and you deleted my sources. I told you to at least keep sources and use talk page until we solve it. Try to understand it, also tell it to your friends who 24/7 try to change Hamdi Ulukaya article to show him as a Turk even though I have tons of articles even his own video about himself.
I am totally supporting the edit [161]: About the lack of interest, it is Turkish claim. If you read news like this [1] you will realize that Turkish press is closed like in North Korea (Press freedom Index) and nothing unbiased comes from them when it comes to Kurdish related news. So, if the Kurds say that they are not allowed to open schools, they are continuously closed and international newspapers confirm them, is it not a fair to keep one biased Turkish source which claims that they weren't interested.. That's why I showed it as a claim but kept it despite the source was unreliable.
About Yazidi woman, I am going to repeat again, Dailymail is not reliable source and she is Yazidi not a Kurd. Just read her article and sources related to her. Tons of articles says she is Yazidis and Iraq. Yazidis are not Kurds, they are recognized as different ethnic group by the UN.
About the edit more: How many times, I have to explain this edit. Let me explain again even though it is already explained. About the first edit, the source says: The rate of FGM was discovered to be 21 percent in West Azerbaijan, 18 percent in Kermanshah, and 16 percent in Kurdistan, according to field interviews and research conducted by Ahmady and his team. The article said that A 2015 study by Kurdish social anthropologist Kameel Ahmady found and assessed a 16% rate of female genital mutilation in Western Iran, where it is mostly practiced by Sunni Shafi’i Kurds who speak the Sorani dialect. Here comes the problem. The source didn't say that it is 16% in Western Iran, it said 16% in Kurdistan. What does source means with "Kurdistan" is still unclear. Did he mean all Kurdistan, including Iraq, Turkey and Syria or does it means only Iranin Kurdistan? If source meant Iranian Kurdistan, then it is not Western Iran, it is officially North Western Iran. However, I assumed that the source really meant 16% in Western Iran so I tried to find the claim that it is mostly practiced by Sunni Shafi’i Kurds who speak the Sorani dialect. However, the source doesn't say anything like that, not even close. The source says that Among the Kurds in Iran, FGM is mainly practiced by Sunni Shafi’i Kurds who speak the Sorani dialect, but not among Sunni Shafie Kurds who speak the Kermanji dialect, let me repeat, among the Kurds in Iran, not in Western Iran as the Wikipedia article claimed. So I simply deleted because it was clearly falsified. Statement related to statistics said "is" but it's not true because the source I added clearly said that it is dropped everywhere to under 50% and in some regions, it is almost 0%. If I would have deleted "statistics", I would have deleted that 72% also. I didn't and I leave it because that is true, unlike other statistics about regions which weren't true anymore because I had source for them. I already explained 3 times that the law about FGM is allowed so that statement which says that it is not enforced is not true anymore, that's why I removed it. There is my source above. If you think that edit is wrong, then you simply protect blackwashing Kurdish pages. Keeping falsified statement about FGM, FGM statistics which is not valid anymore and statement about FGM law which also not valid anymore is nothing else than blackwashing. I would have understood if you would have for example presented statistics in table and mentioned that they are from 2011 or 2012 or have said that law wasn't accepted until 2015 but keeping those despite new sources is clearly blackwashing. Ferakp (talk) 21:30, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removing information negative information can be whitewashing. I don't agree with Ferakp's view that his edits are only aimed at restoring neutrality. Many of them are removing reliably sourced negative information. This conflict looks to me as a typical example of two editors with opposite biases trying to make the article what *they* think is neutral, and then assuming bad faith on the case of the other editor. The only solution is probably to get more editors involved, especially uninvolved neutral editors. --OpenFuture (talk) 14:21, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You better tell this to the user who reported me.This is because the user is continuously blackwashing Kurdish articles with another Turkish troll group. The same user who reported me is cooperating with Shadow4dark user, you usually find them and some other users always in same pages blackwashing Kurdish articles and whitewashing Turkish-PKK related pages. For example, Shadow4dark has added Kurdish terrorism category to every Kurdish article he has visited and the user who reported me has cooperated with Shadow4dark, he just deleted speed deletion tag which another user added to the Category:Kurdish terrorism. The user deleted it and didn't explain or use talk page to tell why he/she thinks that it is not meeting speedy deletion requirements. The same user also tried remove my all details which neutralized the Kurdish articles. As I mentioned above, there is clear evidence that this user with other users are doing nothing else than blackwashing Kurdish articles and whitewashing articles related to them. I proved 9 times that this users is deleting newest sources and replacing with oldest ones. Also, this user has showed many my edits as whitewashing even though I proved that they are clearly related to neutralization, just read my messages above.
I'm telling it to you, FerakP. Although obviously, it goes for all of you. --OpenFuture (talk) 20:57, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OpenFuture, this is not simply a POV conflict. Of course everyone will have their perceptions of neutrality and of course some inherent bias may be present on my part. That goes without saying. However, having been involved in numerous debates about this volatile and politically sensitive region (and never raised one issue here at ANI about any user), it is very clear to me that this is not about a POV conflict (which would look like this) and that there is an important behavioural problem about this user that is certainly not the case with other users I have disputed with. Consistently adding unsourced, editorialised content based on one's perception of events, manipulating the content of sources (just as he did in his recent text about Yaşar Kemal) whilst consistently removing reliably sourced content on trivial pretexts, whilst continuously accusing others at every dispute of "blackwashing", "disruptive editing", "collaborating" is not a POV problem. It is a behavioural problem and is tendentious and disruptive editing. My having different perceptions of neutrality whilst pointing out a destructive editing pattern that continues despite warnings does not invalidate concerns raised about his editing pattern and does not reduce this to an "it goes for all of you" dispute. The editing patterns of other users here, I believe, are incomparable to that of Ferakp, who has not expanded a single article without adding positive material about Kurdish people or negative material about other ethnic groups. For all his activity on content issues, this user has only created one original article and the subject matter of that article speaks for itself. For all his stance about Kurds, which in other circumstances would be perfectly fine, he has not even expanded one Kurdish-related (or otherwise) article when ethnic issues or negative material about Kurds were not at stake. --GGT (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
GGT Check my edits again, think twice, read your answer again and think again, is it really true what you just wrote here. About Yasar Kemal, I added sources and told you that sources say so. You can't force anyone to be "Turkish" if he is not. You removed details about him and my sources. You had a chance to use talk page but you just reversed my changes. I had to myself start a new section in the talk page.Ferakp (talk) 20:41, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if it wasn't a behavioral problem, the POV conflict would be soon resolved as the involved editors would rationally discuss the issue and come to a NPOV compromise. ;-) But anyway, my point was that this is not ONE editor who is to blame here. But both sides are behaving wrongly. It may very well be that Ferakp is a worse offender, I'm not going to spend time making a statistical analysis of it. No matter who starts the fight, breaking Wikipedia policy is the incorrect response. --OpenFuture (talk) 12:41, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure what could make me a worse offender, is it that I proved that all accusations are not true and I am absolutely right, or that I neutralized articles using reliable and newest sources. You should tell those editors that they should focus on their own articles instead of blackwashing Kurdish related articles 24/7. I am tired to clean Kurdish articles from their fictitious references (I showed 4 of them) and claims. Ferakp (talk) 04:19, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"focus on their own articles instead of blackwashing Kurdish related articles" - could not have a statement that shows the WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality. What would be "my articles" now, Ferakp? --GGT (talk) 16:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You understood it well, I said instead of blackwashing Kurdish articles, focus on what you know. Blackwashing Kurdish articles is not funny.Ferakp (talk) 10:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Neither is whitewashing, and this problem isn't going to go away unless we agree to keep to WP:NPOV and discuss the disagreements rationally and calmly. --OpenFuture (talk) 09:23, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Section break for convenience and an appeal before this gets to a topic ban

Having read the above and looked at the above, I'm inclined to agree there are issues with regard to Ferakp with regard to how to interpret sourcing in a non-biased manner, tendentiousness and lack of acceptance of consensus, and a general battleground mentality. Ferakp, you need to understand that on this project we overwhelmingly rely on WP:Secondary sources in most circumstances; you don't get to just delete or alter content supported by those sources because they "got it wrong" just because the facts and positions in those sources does not jive with your preferred interpretation of reality and/or primary sources. More important than that, even if you're policy interpretations were correct, you still wouldn't be getting anywhere without adjusting your attitude towards the consensus-based model of this project or the principle of showing special care in editorial areas where you may not have a neutral point of view. To be clear, there are places where I feel your edits show potential to add beneficial nuance to these issues, but there are also others where it is clear you operating under the bias of wanting to see (and to present) an interpretation of facts in a light which is most beneficial to the Kurdish people.

I have sympathy for how the historical context here affects views, and indeed I appreciate the hardships various Kurdish populations have endured themselves, but you have to understand that you are not going to accomplish anything on this project by working against the WP:WEIGHT of sourcing, except to waste a good deal of your own energy, and that of other editors; indeed, you risk pushing the perspectives of the articles in question in the opposite direction you intend as other editors strive to counterblance you, some of whom could possibly become more entrenched in their views as a product of dealing with your own intransigence. Further, at this point, you are running the risk of being seen as so problematic in this topic area that you must be removed from it, after which your influence on these topics will be reduced to just that resistance to your views that you engendered in other contributors. Please consider taking a break from the articles in question for a little while, then going back with an effort to see if you can hammer out reasonable compromise wording with regard to some of the points you object to. Snow let's rap 22:58, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Out of curiosity I've been looking at some of the supposedly offending diffs provided against Ferakp, in particular those provided by GGT. Based on them alone, I find little to fault with Ferakp. The edits have mostly actually improved the articles. The material deleted has often been cherrypicked from sources for effect, or had been expressed as if there was absolutely no doubt as to accuracy (where in reality the unbiased nature of many of the sources could be questioned). Other deleted material was definitely off-topic. I don't know if Ferakp has been using talk pages to explain these edits - if not, they might on the surface appear to be brisk and be engaged in whitewashing, but actually they are not. And I come from this from the standpoint of thinking that there is far too much pro-Kurdish propaganda and whitewashing in Kurd/Kurdistan related articles and they have often been let off the hook regarding accuracy because of a general desire to be "nice" to Kurds. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For example GGT cited this [162] - but the edit is correct, if you are "born into" it refers to the language your parents spoke at the time you were born, not what you and your peers currently speak in everyday life. I feel this is also correct [163] - the deleted claim was quite extraordinary in the figure given, the cited source is of unknown quality and the page cited seems to not exist. Extraordinary claims will require something better than this. The only issue is with the swiftness of the deletion - perhaps it should have been tagged first. CTC claims this content addition is unsourced [164], but it is sourced! And the content addition is completely justified - if an organization is criticized it is appropriate for a response by that organization to the criticism to be presented alongside the original accusation. This [165] which GGT also objected to, I see as a correct but badly executed attempt to counter editorializing and source distortion. The source does not mention "Kurdish-language schools", it mentions private schools that ran classes that taught the Kurdish language. There are no "Kurdish-language schools" in Turkey, they are illegal - as the source says, classes (except classes that are teaching Kurdish) have to be taught in Turkish. This [166] is also correct. The deleted "where it is mostly practiced by Sunni Shafi’i Kurds who speak the Sorani dialect" is simply cherrypicked from the source for effect: its wording and context suggests that most of the FGM in Iran is done by Kurds. However, the source says nothing like that, and also says "The prevalence of FGM in Kurdistan is patchy and varies sharply from one region to another". The deletion of the "A 2011 Kurdish law criminalized..." content is hard to explain and accept though. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:57, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, two of the articles being mentioned here I see as possible pov forks: Kurdification and Human rights in Rojava. There seems not enough material to justify Human rights in Rojava, and it seems to exist only to host negative criticism, excluding the ample amount of sources that say the rights and liberties of the populations in Rojava are far greater than in neighbouring areas and have been highly praised. Created by Ferakp, I can see why it could give the impression, as has been suggested, that it exists only to remove this negative criticism from another article? The term "Kurdification" is questionable since it originated in Turkish post-Iraq-invasion propaganda as a response to the far more historically well founded and factual term "Turkification", which Turkey had (and still is) been accused of inflicting on Kurds in Turkey. I do not see much legitimate academic use of the phrase Kurdification and all the sources cited in the article need checking to see if they do use that phrase. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

Continuous disruptive editing by Shhhhwwww!! even after third block

I'm here to file a case on User:Shhhhwwww!!, this user has make a persistent disruptive editing since his recent release of block in early April. Since 2013, this user was detected making nonsense contribution like [167], [168], [169], [170], [171], [172] and making disruptive page moves without any discussion first which resulted he was blocked for third time (see his block log). The user also makes content removal without starting a discussion first/reaching a consensus like this, this and labelling anyone who revert his edits as breaching the WP:3RR while still not reaching it as can be seen on here and here. Recently, when he get his third block was expired, he continue to invade Sabah article by starting a discussion with a title "Sabah is racist" [173] and adding the article as part of WikiProject Philippines while it is not a Philippine territory [174], [175]. The same goes to Miangas article [176], [177] which is an Indonesian territory. The user have been warned for his disruptive editing who frequently makes flooding request for comment [178] thus controversially removing his comment from the Miangas talkpage which affecting the recent discussion there [179]. The same can be seen on here and here although the discussion can be discussed in one place without flooding every related topics. The user tactics also usually will retired when someone launched an investigation into his behaviour such as can be seen on this, this, this and this and remove it back when the investigation is over. He also restoring other user comment who have rectract his word [180]. As been reported by other users (which can be seen on here (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Shhhhwwww!!/Archive#14 October 2015). When another user User:HistoriaFilipinas create the North Borneo, Philippines article, he re-create it by stating an edit summary (to prevent re-creation). This is quite amusing. Someone should take an action to this user which day by day getting worse even after had been blocked and repeatedly warned as seen on his talkpage. I have filed this case on administrator intervention against vandalism and they told me to report it here. Thank you. Molecule Extraction (talk) 07:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Shhhhwwww!!(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Molecule Extraction(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are two POV warriors who fight on various pages, so this is a content dispute between two editors who both are prone to violating policy. I warned them both this morning. I did not warn Molecule Extraction about WP:FORUMSHOPPING but please regard this as such a warning. Stop disrupting and start discussing this in a constructive manner. And that goes for both of you. --OpenFuture (talk) 07:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm understand and accept your warning. I'm here to just reporting the behaviour of Shhhhwwww!! since 2013 as had been reported by other previous users (senior) than me so any administrators can take a look on this long-term issues. I'm ready to take up any responsibility and mistake If I had done to this projects especially when I had make a talkpage war or edit war with the user. But the only thing I hope is there should be any final decision on this. Molecule Extraction (talk) 07:55, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Worry about yourself instead of Shhhhwwww!! --OpenFuture (talk) 08:05, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Molecule Extraction, you also failed to alert Shhhhwwww!! that you have reported him; so he probably does not even know that he is being discussed. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 10:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: Thanks for putting it. I forgot. Molecule Extraction (talk) 11:00, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've tried to be patient with this user and discuss the issues in a more mature manner but the constant Wikihounding, Harrassment, and Personal attacks just get to the nerves. Sometimes enough is enough. Harkening back to edits made three years ago, threats of blocking, overusing arguments are just bad faith. I tried to have a truce to no avail. I tried responding with one-word responses, the attacks continued. I have already backed away when OpenFuture told us to stop. This is unfair. I have already been harrassed a day ago with reporting to the vandalism noticeboard and I was cleared thrice. I am really unhappy right now.Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 13:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have indeed tried everything, except following the WP:Five pillars. You have created a whole host of frivolous RfC's you have even made a completely frivolous arbitration request, you have thrown out endless personal attacks, you have editwarred, etc. Don't try to make yourself out to be a victim. Neither of you are victims, the only victim is Wikipedia. --OpenFuture (talk) 19:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't this user retire after the last time they were being disruptive? Now looking to escape a long block by going on vacation. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 50 times... LugnutsDick Laurent is dead 18:30, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Timing is so often the most important element of a holiday Face-wink.svgFortunaImperatrix Mundi 19:15, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am willing to have a more meanigful discussion with this user and avoid any disruptive editing. I will still be on Wikibreak for a while to cool my head and calm my nerves. I am also going to try to avoid these topics in the near future. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 21:33, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
'I am willing to have a more meaningful discussion with this user and avoid any disruptive editing'. Hah, the tactics always like that by claiming himself as 'innocence' and then "retire" before being blocked. After your recent block, you however continue to remove a template from the Jamalul Kiram III before starting any discussion and reaching a consensus [181]. I have asking him repeatedly to give a WP:RS from the PH government (be it from PDF documents or from the government press release agencies [182], [183]) that recognise Kiram III or Ismael Kiram II and Muedzul Lail Tan Kiram as the official Sultan for the so-called Sultanate of Sulu (that been recognise until this day by his country peoples) but instead he gave me a link to a newspaper of Philippines Vice-President Jejomar Binay claim to Sabah as can be seen on our discussion in Jamalul Kiram III talkpage. Then on the Sabah article, Shhhhwwww!! keep stressing that WikiProject Philippines must be included [184], [185] on the article talkpage although OpenFuture has told to stop and giving a suggestion to maintain a balance views on the article content. Is that you called 'to avoid disruptive editing'?? An experience Filipino editor RioHondo also has said that there is no need for a WikiProject Philippines to be included on a article that even are not under the jurisdiction of the Philippines. The disruption was also seen on a Indonesian island article, the Miangas talkpage [186], [187]. Clearly that there is some "irredentism" feeling here. While at the same time, you have controversially removing the question header which have affecting the discussion [188]. Is that are not disruptive? You also said 'I am also going to try to avoid these topics in the near future'. I have asking you here if your really want to change your behaviour but instead you leave my question unanswered. Is that how we can trust you easily, after repeated warnings and block but still back to old behaviour?? Molecule Extraction (talk) 02:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • What a mess This thread was opened about twenty hours ago by Molecule Extraction, and has received 12 independent comments including ME's OP comment, but somehow has been edited 48 times!? This is some Special:Contributions/LittleBenW shit, and almost all of it appears to be the fault of the OP. On top of that, he/she seems to be under the impression that Shhhhwwww having a block log means all disruptive editing must be the latter's fault, but all of Shhhhwwww's blocks appear to be about a string of unilateral page moves, and my (admittedly brief) examination of their contribs didn't indicate any continuation of this particular activity following the most recent block. While I don't doubt that both editors are being disruptive, I don't think Shhhhwwww should be blocked again if Molecule Extraction comes out of this unscathed, as Molecule Extraction appears to me to be engaging in disruption on this very forum. Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:45, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just noticed this (sorry -- wasn't reading very closely). Block Shhhhwwww for three months and see if he comes back and causes still more trouble. Molecule Extraction has a clean block record, so one week should be enough to warn them that this isn't appropriate behaviour. Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:52, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think a week is a bit on the heavy side for Molecule Extraction. I've been looking at the articles to see who added all the shit I now have to clean away, and it wasn't him. He just escalated the conflict instead of handling it. --OpenFuture (talk) 19:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Muffin Wizard and User:Molecule Extraction have identical edit patterns. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 00:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and now you are accusing me to be a sockpuppet. What a lame excuse. Molecule Extraction (talk) 03:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Creepy canvassing right here. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 05:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ownership of Mann Mayal

Greetings
I have a problem regarding Nauriya. The user doesn't lets me edit the article Mann Mayal which he has created. Initially I ignored this but later when I edited the article again he reverted my edits again. I restored my edits and asked him to do a discussion on the talk page and he started a conversation but after putting the message on talk page he reverted my edit again. As I said, I requested the user to stop but he didn't. The user added a genre 'serial drama' to this television article and I can't understand which type of genre is it. I wanted to remove it but the creator Nauriya is against me. My many other edits that were not Vandalism were also removed from the article by the creator of the article. Now this is ownership of article.--Musa Talk 17:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

While Nauriya is a major editor of that article, they are not reverting everyone's contributions. I encourage you to participate in the discussion they started at Talk:Mann Mayal. Discussing a difference of opinion to come to some agreement or understanding is preferable to a block and should happen before a complaint is filed at ANI. You also haven't presented much evidence to support your request. Liz Read! Talk! 21:50, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz: I'm here because of unacceptable behaviour of the user. Currently there are three genres in Mann Mayal, 'Romance', 'Serial Drama' and 'Family Drama'. Now which kind of genre is 'Serial Drama'? There is no source which says that 'Serial Drama' is genre of this show. I changed it to romance-drama but the user removed it. And the genre 'Family Drama' should be written as 'Family'. But according to the creator Serial Drama, Family Drama and Romance are correct genres. Why DRAMA is written twice? The article contains wrong content which should be removed. I removed it and asked the user to refrain from reverting my edits (See talk pages) and start a discussion. He started a discussion but removed my edits again and said don't revert until issue is resolved which I told him first. Please remove the wrong content from the article. And I also made some changes in the style of Mann Mayal but that changes were also removed because they were unconstructive. I just changed the style the content was written by the user itself. This is disruptive behaviour.--Musa Talk 14:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Musa, did you read what I wrote? Decisions about the content of articles is not determined at ANI. Unless it turns into edit-warring or considered stalking behavior, reverting another editor's edit is not considered disruptive behavior, it is part of the BRD process. You two should discuss your difference of opinion and I advised you to join the discussion at Talk:Mann Mayal. If you two can not come to an agreement there, the next step is Dispute resolution. Liz Read! Talk! 21:50, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dicklyon and his disruptive "war on commas"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dicklyon(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
There are way to many diffs to list for this, but any admin or editor can easily look at;

I'm asking that Dicklyon stop (or be stopped from) moving pages to remove, every, single, comma, he finds until the there is a consensus to support this project wide and changes are made to WP:MOS (lead) and WP:JR. Thank you - theWOLFchild 17:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • NOTE Filer is canvassing via ANI notices at the talk pages of various editors here, here, and here. None of the editors he contacted are mentioned in the report above. Looks like a policy-vio to me. -- WV 18:36, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Note" You obviously didn't read the ANI. Once you realize you're wrong, feel free to strike your accusation. - theWOLFchild 19:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need for him to mention me; I previously filed a complaint at #Dicklyon and his treatment on commas before Jr/Sr. Somehow, a recent RfC discussion is used as justification for omitting commas. George Ho (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely why Wolfchild's action is canvassing. -- WV 19:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not canvassing, so give it a rest already. Feel free to address the actual issue. - theWOLFchild 19:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not so sure it's canvassing given there's an open thread on the same subject on this same page. If there's a concern, just turn this into a subsection above. I don't think neutral ANI notices are normally considered canvassing, though sending them to a bunch of otherwise unaffected people is unusual to say the least. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 19:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No wonder these ANIs turn into such train wrecks. 3 replies and not one addressing the actual issue... - theWOLFchild 19:29, 6 April 2016 (UTC) [reply]
WP:JR. There, I addressed the "actual issue". Again. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Can you add a link? Thanks - theWOLFchild 21:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Canvassing applies to the act of drawing in uninvolved editors to a discussion in an inappropriate manner. If you notice, the editors notified were actually involved in similar disputes with Dicklyon, all of which were linked to above in the ANI heading. As a result of linking to those discussions, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that TheWolfChild felt compelled to notify the editors involved at those links. Tying this to a behavioral guideline violation seems a bit premature. --GoneIn60 (talk) 21:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • From an uninvolved editor, WP:JR seems to indicate that there is consensus for the moves. ansh666 22:19, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:JR;
  • Editors may use or omit a comma before Jr. or Sr. (Sammy Davis Jr.; Martin Luther King, Sr.) so long as each article is internally consistent. - This is before Dicklyon and Co. started mucking around with it to taylor it to their personal preferences.
  • Now it reads; Omission of the comma before Jr./Jr/Jnr or Sr./Sr/Snr is preferred. The comma can be used where a living subject's own preference or its use in current sources is clear and consistent. Articles should be internally consistent in either use or omission of the commas.
  • That's after this edit, with the edit summary "per RfC closure". However, the RfC (as noted above) was closed as "no consensus", with Drmies saying "MOS should express a preference toward not using commas. Grandfathering older articles, FAs, etc., is recommended, and one should remember that the MOS is a guideline, not a policy".
  • No where do I see a policy or a widespread consensus that says; "Go ahead Dicklyon, pretend your the wiki-terminator, a remorseless comma-killing machine from the future, here to edit-war, page-move-war and generally disrupt the project in fulfillment of your mission - to stamp out disease-spreading commas everywhere."
  • Again, I'm, asking that the page-moves and mass-removal of commas stops until a clear consensus is achieved and the guidelines are re-written to clearly reflect that consensus. - theWOLFchild 00:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the matter has limited to just an issue for American English. Other regional English varieties have decided to scrap the comma out worldwide. Comma before Jr. or Sr. is now an American matter, not global. Still, we have to resort to recent sources using or omitting a comma. --George Ho (talk) 00:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Administrators or editors condone Dicklyon's actions and condemn me apparently. In other words, administrators won't do much about actions of editors who keep removing commas. George Ho (talk) 00:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can't paint all admins with the same brush, there are a few good ones here that take their responsibilities seriously. With that said, I would still like to see a clear consensus, and clear guideline on this. Until then, neither admins nor editors should be "condoning" Dicklyon's actions, or anyone else's for that matter, that disrupt the project for their own personal preferences. - theWOLFchild 01:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The dispute is not whether the parenthetical comma has been dropped from English. (George Ho is incorrect in saying that we don't use it in other forms of English; we do, even though we do generally omit commas.) It is over whether you can change the MOS and then force all the articles to be changed to conform. This is what caused the push back from the content creators and article maintainers. As Drmies said, the MOS is supposed to be an advisory guideline to help writing articles, not to make it much harder to do so. Only FAs have a requirement to conform to the MOS, and there is no consensus that even they need to be constantly changed to conform to the latest version of the MOS. Moving the articles creates a great deal of disruption and additional work, as it break links to the reviews and causes trouble for the bots. I feel that if I can write whole articles in American English, then other people can live with the occasional comma or hyphen that offends their sensibilities. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hawkeye7 says it well. Edit warring, large numbers of moves, etc., are easily disruptive, and the MOS should not be used to bludgeon other editors with. I mean, behavior that's disruptive cannot simply be whisked away by saying "it's the MOS". Thank you, Drmies (talk) 00:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – In relation to article content, I don't believe that changes to the MOS should act as a catalyst for editors to retroactively apply those changes to older articles that predate the change, especially when more than one style is acceptable. At the very least in these situations, the MOS shouldn't be relied upon for the last word when those changes are being contested. Instead, the typical process of establishing consensus through discussion should be followed. Perhaps the inclusion of more explicit text in the MOS' lead would help to clarify this to help avoid future confrontations like this one, but of course, that's a discussion to be had on its talk page – not here. --GoneIn60 (talk) 10:27, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Clear violation of unblock conditions

Dicklyon was unblocked in December under the condition that he avoid making mass page moves (see [189]). Over the past several weeks, he has made dozens of page moves without gaining consensus first. The moves are also in clear violation of a recent RFC on the matter, which determined that grandfathering in existing titles was preferred (presumably to avoid the same mass moves Dicklyon has carried out). The WP:MoS, which Dicklyon and his followers point to in his defense, explicitly says "Where more than one style is acceptable, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason. Edit warring over optional styles is unacceptable."

So, to recap, Dicklyon is running afoul of his unblock condition, the RFC he cites and the MoS. He ought to, at a minimum, be told to stop making such controversial moves. Calidum ¤ 03:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly enough, Dicklyon was given a six-month ban from moving pages in April 2015 (see here). He was blocked indefinitely that same month, and a majority of users who commented on his unblock request in December felt that six-month ban should be kept in place. Calidum ¤ 03:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If the mass moves without consensus don't stop, the next ban should be longer. Jonathunder (talk) 15:15, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This might be an issue, but might not be. Dicklyon stopped pagemoves around the time the earlier ANI thread started. While he resumed them about 24 hours later (making around 50), it was after the thread had died down. What matters is the "potentially controversial" nature of the pagemoves: In other words, the unblock condition might be violated if the pagemoves weren't really controversial, but had the potential to be controversial. For me it hinges on the individual pagemoves made, at least after the ANI thread started, when Dicklyon was unquestionably on notice that there was a problem. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 16:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose any move is "potentially controversial". Are any actually controversial? Is there any basis at all for Thewolfchild's position that my removal of a comma from ship name that doesn't have one in sources was controversial? I understand that I pissed him off by not following BRD; since his revert had a counterfactual reason for reverting, in his edit summary, I simply reverted that error; even that should not be seen as controversial; please review my actions there. Dicklyon (talk) 17:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So you admit to edit-warring, page-move-warring and repeat-moving a page, after it was disputed, violating WP:MOS. Thanks, that makes things easier. - theWOLFchild 17:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How about Larry Mullen, Jr., where you move-warred with an admin over the comma [190]? Just because your comrades in the anti-coma crusade showed up to oppose moving it back to the longstanding, stable title doesn't mean the move was uncontroversial. Or how about here [191] where you openly admit you edit redirects created by your page moves to make it impossible for non-admins to undo the undiscussed moves? Calidum ¤ 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Calidum, per this RM: Talk:Larry_Mullen_Jr.#Requested_move_20_March_2016, it appears that your using the "uncontroversial" process to add a comma against the guidance of the MOS was the more controversial bit. Yes, I reverted the resulting admin move (the same admin who opened the RM discussion in response to your attempt to again insert the comma), because it was incorrect, against a clear broad consensus as expressed at WP:JR. The RM discussion affirms this. I suggest people review that, too. Dicklyon (talk) 17:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it were right in the end, it's still controversial. Don't play dumb. You're too smart to pretend these moves aren't controversial. Calidum ¤ 17:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is a "clear broad consensus" you say? Only 7 editors have participated in that still-open debate and there is clearly no consensus there at all. Your comment is, to put it politely, disingenuous. - theWOLFchild 22:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Mendaliv: - He knew full well these moves were controversial. His entire "war on commas" is. He was just brought to ANI for it, (see above) and his talk page is full of complaints about his page-moves and comma removals. Is this what the community had in mind when his indef block was lifted? Meanwhile, the page-moves and comma-removals need to stop for now. There needs to be a clear consensus and equally clear guideline on this before Dicklyon and Co. continue any further. - theWOLFchild 17:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • And the moves continue despite this ANI thread. See here for example. Calidum ¤ 18:49, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And here - theWOLFchild 21:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What would be the potential controversy when our MOS and the vast majority of sources are in agreement? I understand that sometimes people who prefer to "follow the sources" find edits toward the preference of our own MOS to be controversial when usage in sources is ambiguous or contrary to our style. That is not the case in any of these that we are discussing, is it? Perhaps these are not at all controversial unless you choose to make them so? And why would you? Dicklyon (talk) 18:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But MOS clearly isn't in agreement with you here. And beyond that, the fact that the commas are an acceptable version and the moves are contested, means that the pages stay with their original titles. You know this, yet are deliberately ignoring it. Your continued conduct 'is therefore disruptive and completely flies in the face of your standard offer. The community allowed you back in after your recent indef block on the understanding you wouldn't cause anymore disruption. Just because you think you're right, doesn't mean that you are. You need to stop all this. - theWOLFchild 20:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may well be that Dicklyon is pushing the envelope here, and he's made a few more moves recently. What I cannot accurately judge is whether he's doing so disruptively, against consensus, by edit warring, etc. I see a few diffs, above, that allege edit warring--but what I would really like to hear here is what uninvolved editors have to say on the topic. For now, it may simply be that we have two parties fighting over content accusing each other of disruption. Wolfchild, I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment--I'm just saying that if we were to reblock for violation of unblock conditions, those violations need to be unequivocal, and I don't see that right now. Mind you, I need some coffee. But what I really need is more voices here, and preferably another admin to judge this as well. Drmies (talk) 00:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Drmies At the very least, the page-moves and comma removals should stop until all this gets sorted out. That's what I'm asking for here. Even the guidelines support that (and leaving an errant comma in place will not exactly destroy the project). A block is not what I am primarily seeking here (but if the any admins or the community are considering imposing one, it has my support). Look at the 2015 archive for MOS:BLP, this has been going on for over a year, with no consensus and no end in sight. It's time to bring this to an end. I just want the disruption, that numerous editors have now complained about, to stop until there is a clear direction to take with all this. - theWOLFchild 00:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Dicklyon was unblocked with the wording "User unblocked (with provision to avoid large scale, controversial actions) per consensus here." Almost any MOS-based change is going to be large scale as it is not article specific. Faffing around with comma's is certainly controversial. And as comments at his unblocking were quite clear, editors were not keen on unblocking him with no restrictions. Perhaps Prodego erred in not making it explicit. But 'Dont make large scale changes in contested areas' should be clear enough to anyone. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Definitely need more voices, because both Calidum and Thewolfchild are huge fans of the unnecessary comma, upset that they didn't get what the wanted in the RfC. It is not at all the case that editors unconnected to the dispute are coming here because they feel something disruptive is going on that's affecting their editing. This is pure battlegrounding for personal reasons. If we all ran to ANI every time an article title pattern didn't go the way we preferred, ANI would just consist of a gladiatorial alternative to WP:MR with very little other material. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 06:15, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • And the moves continue today, perhaps because Dick has been emboldened by the inaction of those who've agreed he's in the wrong but fail to do anything. Calidum ¤ 21:18, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What does it take to get the admins around here to do some adminning? Meanwhile, I've just now, quite suddenly and randomly, decided I no longer like question marks. Or the letter 'E'. Oh, and spaces, they're a waste of... space. I think I'll start changing every. single. article I come across that has a question mark, letter 'e' or space between words, by simply removing them. All of them. And I can do it to, just as soon as I re-write the MOS to say I can. (I wonder if the admins would so anything then?) - theWOLFchild 22:17, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Using standard RM processes are not a violation of the unblock conditions. Editwarring to unilaterally change MOS to say "every comma that can be removed must removed", or something otherwise extreme, and then fighting about it tendentiously would be. Nothing like that is happening here. Someone else (me) provided a shipload of sourcing on the current state of comma usage on a particular point (intended for mainspace use in article on English usage). Someone else proposed an RfC on that (RGloucester) relating to MoS's wording. People who cared commented. An Arb closed with a consensus finding (even if also some supervoting). A policy-compatible change was made to MOS:JR to update it post-RfC, and Dicklyon did not author any of that. Various RMs since then have challenged MOS:JR's applicability to various cases, and last I looked every single one of them was a landslide in favor of removing the comma (one exception needs to be broken up into mutiple cases, since it involves a ship named after someone, etc.). So where is the problem? What abuse is Dicklyon engaged in? You can't instruct someone to follow consensus-gauging and -building processes instead of acting unilaterally, and then punish them for following those processes, based on what others are doing (which also wasn't unilateral). There is no basis for this complaint other than "I don't like Dicklyon, and I'm not getting my way, so maybe if I make him seem to be a bad guy I will get my way after all." Well, no. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 06:08, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by the accused

Sorry, not much internet on my long road trip today; just read this. You'll find my full confession (posted before this complaint was filed, I think) at this section. More context there, and more on request. Dicklyon (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So much for "consensus"

The RfC you so heavily relied on is now a joke. Only 7 editors participated, few of whom actually agreed with you, and it wasn't even closed. I pinged those 7 editors, (including yourself), and them only, to clarify who supported what. And what do you do? You ping 14 other editors (and counting), none of whom participated in that discussion, and are likely cherry-picked 'anti-comma' people. And this is supposed to prove... what? The fact is, you lied, (again) and you were caught in that lie. You didn't have the consensus you claimed you did, and you can ping a hundred more people, nothing will change that fact. (Where that's guy that cries about canvassing when you actually need him anyway?) lolz... Despite whatever happens now, watching you panic and try to spin this is amusing... - theWOLFchild 07:02, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How many times do I need to link it for you? It was recently archived from WP:VPP and I linked it on your other forum shop at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Consensus....3F. Dicklyon (talk) 16:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Forum shop"...? Forumshopping is raising the same issue at different places. Here I'm asking that you stop all your silly page-moves and comma removals. There I was simply trying to establish the so-called consensus you keep claiming supports your disruptive behaviour. (>bing!< - another lie shot down) Relax... no need to get all pissy just because so many people are disagreeing with you now. - theWOLFchild 22:53, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We already have one thread on this, filed 2 days previously

  • We already have one thread on this, filed 2 days previously: [192]. Could someone kindly combine the two threads/filings. Softlavender (talk) 04:39, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The other report is now stale. They are both quite lengthy. There are also separate issues being discussed here. This one has been active for 3 days now, with many editors contributing, but not one complaining of a need to merge... (except for this proposer). Also, this report has been linked to other discussions, moving it would break those links. - theWOLFchild 07:07, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment from (uninvolved and uncanvassed editor): Reviewing the ongoing RFC about implementing WP:JR as it stands (on which I have not !voted, as I don't care, the most pertinent comment seems to come from @Guy Macon:: "Support Dicklyon's comma-removals, including the the page-moves. Reject the notion that when Wolfchild and Dicklyon fight over commas only one of them is at fault. Evidence, please regarding the claim that Dicklyon re-wrote WP:JR and MOS:BLP to support his position -- I want to see diffs. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)" - It's evident from above that there are two sides to this and, as @Winkelvi: noticed above, one side has been disproportionately notified to come here. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:34, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@In ictu oculi: As I said above, if you want to accuse me of something, then accuse me; file a complaint, a separate complaint. Cite your diffs, along with the relevant policies and whatever else you like, but do it somewhere else, and quit filling up this report with off-topic nonsense. Start your own ANI report, so you can actually learn what WP:CANVASSING is, and isn't. As for this ANI report, you clearly have no idea what it's about and I strongly suggest you read everything prior to participating so that you can make more informed, and relevant, comments. Take your time, there is a lot to read. Thank you - theWOLFchild 22:09, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Concur this is forum shopping. Something like four editors disagree with the outcome of an RfC, at Village Pump and very broadly advertised, which ran its full course and was based on a huge pile of source research, then closed not just by an admin but one of the WP:ARBCOM members. They are now trying to "re-legislate" it in every forum they can find, including threads on multiple MOS talk pages, multiple RMs (where they recycle the same refuted, emotive, and evidence-free arguments in a WP:IDHT pattern), and now multiple AN/ANI threads. It's patently litigious, tendentious, and vexatious. There is nothing untoward about someone using actual RM processes to propose moves that comply with guidelines based on RfCs, and relying upon evidence not opinions and feelings. There is something untoward about a handful of editors using every means at their disposal, including wikilawyering, and increasingly personalized disputation in contravention of WP:ARBATC#All parties reminded, to get their way at all costs, over a trivial punctuation desire that is no longer the preferred usage in modern off-WP publications, online or offline, in any genre, dialect, or register. The horse is very, very dead on this one. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 06:00, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    PS: A party who has not commented in this ANI thread at all has independently noted that Thewolfchild is engaging in WP:ASPERSIONS on this matter elsewhere [193]. Given the unclean-hands nature of this filing, and its clear "get rid of my enemy so I can WP:WIN" nature, I think a WP:BOOMERANG is in order. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 06:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

S, thanks for noticing this thread. Of course RG has not commented here, as still the wolf has not notified anyone but MOS detractors about this complaint. Dicklyon (talk) 06:40, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nice tag-team at the end of an ANI that started with a bang, but ended with a whimper. Actually, make that a whine... - theWOLFchild 10:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • The underlying issue here is "how strenuously should MOS guidance be implemented?" When does strenuous implementation of MOS guidance cross the line and become disruption? We need to ask and answer that question before we can say whether Dick's behavior was disruptive or not. (And I suspect that there would be no consensus on that underlying question). Blueboar (talk) 15:27, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dicklyon and his treatment on commas before Jr/Sr

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dicklyon has removed commas from titles without consensus case-by-case, like Andrew L. Lewis, Jr. Also, he misinterprets WP:JR as a no-comma rule for Jr./Sr. I don't think WP:3RRN would help much. Also, he posted a message and accused me of being disruptive. I can't handle his antics anymore. Time for administrative action. --George Ho (talk) 05:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Antics"? There has been broad support for WP:JR since the recent RFC. If you believe that Andrew L. Lewis, Jr. calls for a comma, please just say why. What have I done to stress you out so? Dicklyon (talk) 05:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion was about MOS and usage of content in text. It may not have extended to article titles. Also, I did not know about the RfC, and I was not told about it. --George Ho (talk) 05:22, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, George. Now you know. I had some time today, and removed a lot of un-preferred commas. Please do let me know if you see any case where there's a reason to put them back. Dicklyon (talk) 06:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, look at the edits, especially on Cuba Gooding, Jr. How is the rule extended to article titles is beyond me. --George Ho (talk) 05:26, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If, as you claim, WP:JR does not apply to article titles, how do you explain the fact that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies specifically mentions how to handle article titles in four places? --Guy Macon (talk) 06:07, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Other parts have to do with how to introduce a person. Also, it's content-based, not title-based. As for commonality, MOS:BIO mentions it briefly without detailing it too much. --George Ho (talk) 06:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • George, in reading Dicklyon's linked note to you, I rather think it's you who's been disruptive. Tony (talk) 05:21, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How so? George Ho (talk) 05:22, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Shall we start with you taking a clear content dispute to ANI after less than an hour and a half / 3 total comments on the article talk page? --Guy Macon (talk) 05:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It also looks like there's ongoing discussion at WT:MOSBIO regarding how to implement the "Jr." RfC. I think this discussion might work better in the scope of that one. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 06:09, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @George Ho: Will you accept this WP:TROUT that's on offer and allow this thread to be closed so you can all go back to discussing this content dispute in the appropriate venue? Or does this call for a WP:BOOMERANG? Hijiri 88 (やや) 06:24, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hijiri, due to below comment, I'm afraid closing it would premature at this time. Let's see how it goes... George Ho (talk) 06:33, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:JR prefers but doesn't mandate the removal of commas. Strictly speaking, the page moves are unnecessary. This isyet another instance of wishy-washy language in the MOS causing grief. It should be consistent one way or the other and hopefully the aforementioned discussion on WT:MOSBIO provides a clear way forward. clpo13(talk) 06:29, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you 100%, but ANI is not the place to discuss that. ANI is where we discuss blocks and bans of disruptive users. Hijiri 88 (やや) 06:38, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How is Dicklyon not a disruptive type? George Ho (talk) 06:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Especially when he removes the comma during the RM? George Ho (talk) 06:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only RM I can see is one you opened, to an undetermined future title. If you don't know what the title should be, you can't criticize other users for presenting there proposals and being WP:BOLD. Also, I had no idea there was an RM open because you never mentioned it. Now do you want that trout or not? I strongly urge you to accept the former... Hijiri 88 (やや) 07:19, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What about this RM? And past requests and one of my reverts, whilst RM discussion at Talk:Martin Luther King, Sr. was ongoing? George Ho (talk) 07:30, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I notice that the comma was removed from "Robert Downey, Jr." when the RM four years ago said to retain the comma and no further discussions were made in the talk page. George Ho (talk) 07:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
None of those RMs are currently open, and two are over a year old! Are you saying User:Philg88 should be blocked for something he did more than a year ago? You appear to be saying that you want to have a general discussion of our style guidelines on ANI? Or are you blaming Dicklyon for a whole bunch of stuff they had nothing to do with? Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What? No, I'm not pinning on Phil. It's Dicklyon's disregard for case-by-case strategy and generalization on other things. If you think I'm out of control, be my guest. And how dare you propose a block on me after I tried to address a user conduct. Giving me a "boomerang", which I don't know what it means until you try to propose a block on me. --George Ho (talk) 09:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you want my propose on Dicklyon, maybe an admonishment perhaps? If that's not enough, how about warning? Or encourage Dicklyon to propose instead of boldly moving on all commas? George Ho (talk) 09:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You've been editing Wikipedia for a decade and you don't know how ANI works? Maybe you shouldn't have come here, then. I offered you the easy way out of being hit with a trout and closing this thread, and you refused. Twice. I explicitly told you you would be hit with a boomerang if you persisted, and I linked to the page for you to read it. The potentially-disruptive unilateral move in the middle of an RM from over a year ago to which you referred above was made by Philg88 and had nothing to do with Dicklyon as far as I can see. I don't think either should face sanctions for what looks like a good faith misunderstanding from over a year ago. You, on the other hand, appear to be deliberately forum-shopping your content dispute to ANI, and trying to antagonize anyone who calls you out on it. Hijiri 88 (やや) 09:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If I'm too late to let you close the thread, that's fine by me. If you want to close it, go ahead. But I'll be back if the empire strikes back. I swear to you. --George Ho (talk) 09:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rescinding my latest comment due to unanimous opposition below. If it's not too late, close it if you want. Otherwise, let's hear admins' comments then. --George Ho (talk) 18:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You know what? If you believe that this ANI is in bad faith, propose an admonishment or a warning on me if you can. --George Ho (talk) 20:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Are you trying to be antagonistic? I withdrew my boomerang proposal seven hours before you posted the above, and had refrained from further comment in this thread. The "unanimous opposition" was entirely based on philosophical differences over what constitutes a "preventative" block, and I had better things to do with my time than comb through your edit history to see if you abusing ANI was already a recurring problem. Everyone was and still is in agreement that you are being disruptive and are misusing ANI. The "unanimous opposition" was also unanimous that you should be hit with some sort of boomerang or at least a trout. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:00, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If no one is behind me, then... please don't trout me. I don't like being trout-ed. I was trouted once; twice is too much. I don't know if I want to back off or make the thread active. I hate that I'm the enemy here; I don't want to be "antagonistic". If I allow bold removals of commas, then what are we going to do with academics outside Wikipedia who still encourage commas before Sr./Jr.? Also, what about academics encouraging the periods after Jr/Sr? --George Ho (talk) 03:28, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think a WP:BOOMERANGan ANI-misuse admin warning of some kind (not a block, per below discussion) is in order, perhaps a short-term topic ban. Ho may well have been unaware of the RfC but that doesn't mitigate anything, including his vague aspersion-casting that Lyon is "a disruptive type", etc. It's totally inappropriate to drag someone to WP:ANI for alleged linguistic battlegrounding (actually, routine cleanup) when one's own intent is in fact to perpetuate linguistic battlegrounding. It's vexatious, litigious, unclean-hands, and a misuse of ANI to try to WP:WIN a content dispute. Lyon using normal WP:RM processes – slow or speedy – to comply with guideline wording, in an evidence-backed manner, is not problematic. What is problematic is the never-give-up attitude of a couple of editors who are big fans of this comma despite all evidence that usage has shifted over the last two decades (across all dialects and registers) and who go from RM to RM opposing its removal, recycling, in WP:NOTGETTINGIT style, the same bogus arguments in every case no matter how many times they are refuted. This is tendentious activity and needs to stop.

    George Ho in particular has been remarkably WP:DEADHORSE, at both RM discussions and MoS talk pages, about a number of linguistic matters he simply does not understand and refuses to believe enormous piles of evidence about, like the difference between "as" or "like" when used as a preposition versus as a conjunction. It took me many hours of sourcing to get him to even back slightly away from that carcass (thought fortunately the work can be used to improve some articles on English usage).
    PS: comments like "WP:JR prefers but doesn't mandate the removal of commas" are meaningless; all of MOS and our naming conventions pages are just guidelines and do not "mandate" anything. We comply with them as guidelines absent a compelling reason not to in a particular case. And, yes, this is not the place to try to make one.
    SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 22:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SMcCandlish: Which is part of the problem. So long as MOS pages remain "just guidelines", we end up with pointless arguments like this. The wording should be stronger. And next time, would you be so kind as to ping me when you talk about me? clpo13(talk) 05:26, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. George Ho's above ex post facto comments on my failed boomerang proposal indicate that he just doesn't get it -- he seems to actually think a lot of users came to his defense in the belief that this discussion does belong on ANI and I was totally wrong on the substance. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:00, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the objections were to using a block punitively rather than preventatively, i.e. they were procedural not content- or behavior-related objections. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 11:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Bogus? SMcCandlish, my arguments aren't bogus. Give one example that my arguments are bogus. --George Ho (talk) 03:28, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're just proving Hijiri88's point. This is not the forum for an argument about grammar/style and the bogosity of your beliefs about that topic. And "Give one example that my arguments are bogus" doesn't even parse as a proper sentence, which rather proves the other point. So does the whole square mile of sources I dumped on the like/as matter at WT:MOSCAPS, now in Archive 21, at multiple RMs, and developed in hairy detail at User:SMcCandlish/sourcing/Capitalization in English. Anyone who cares about the actual content dispute will find everything they could want in there. Be careful what you wish for.) SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 11:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm rescinding my t-ban suggestion. In re-reviewing Ho's involvement in these topics, while there is a level of tendentiousness, he's actually usually more civil than the "style warriors" we keep having to deal with periodically. This seems to have been a momentary lapse. SMcCandlish ¢ʌⱷ҅ʌ 12:26, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: After reading, above, I have to say I agree with the comment in this sect by Tony1 (talk · contribs). I'd encourage the filer of this ANI thread to familiarize themselves with RFC reflecting community consensus, existing site policy, and then discuss in a civil manner on relevant article talk pages about the issue, keeping in mind pages already cited to him, above. — Cirt (talk) 00:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BOOMERANG for George Ho - block for 24 hours

Withdrawn by requestor

George Ho (talk · contribs) has been given ample opportunity to withdraw this silly request for sanctions over a content dispute that apparently had only started before he decided to escalate it to ANI, and has refused. His most recent comments, immediately above, indicate that he does not have any solid proposal for admin intervention, and just wants to have a general discussion of Wikipedia's style guidelines, which is not what ANI is for. I say issue a short block and tell him that this kind of escalation is disruptive. Hijiri 88 (やや) 08:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn per WP:SNOW. I guess I was the one hit with a trout in this case.(笑) Hijiri 88 (やや) 13:30, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Personally I prefer the no-comma style, but regardless of the underlying merits, in the War of the Comma Crazies no less than in the Middle East, it's critical that a balance of power be maintained lest any one party become unfettered to spread perverse punctuation preoccupation to further parts of the Wikiglobe. A block of anyone might upset this delicate balance. EEng 11:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Blocks are supposed to be preventative, not punishing for misusing AN/I. --OpenFuture (talk) 11:34, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@OpenFuture: Per SNOW, I'm not going to attempt to defend my proposal and overturn all of the oppose !votes, but if you read the discussion above it's pretty clear that, even after several users telling him, George Ho didn't accept that he was misusing ANI. A short block would tell him definitively that what he did was wrong and discourage repeat offense, something that's highly likely if he doesn't recognize that what he did was not acceptable. I even specifically told GH that what he was doing was disruptive and he should take it back, and he refused to listen -- twice. It would also allow this thread to be closed and for the comma warriors to go back to solving their content dispute (although one of them would have to wait 24 hours). So my rationale was preventative, even if the rest of you don't agree. Hijiri 88 (やや) 13:30, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unless he has a history of misusing AN/I you can't reasonably call it preventative. Sure, he might do it again, but innocent until proven guilty... --OpenFuture (talk) 14:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose vehemently What is this block supposed to achieve? Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion, and finding consensus is the way forward. This block would be purely punitive, and would have zilch effect. Either stay away from each other, or hash it out without getting too stubborn. Lectonar (talk) 11:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The comma wars are, in my opinion, one of the most lame long term wars at Wikipedia. I suppose it would make too much sense to solve the whole thing like we did ENGVAR - leave it as it was first done and keep it consistent within articles. It is unlikely our readers give even a tiny fraction of a damn about this when they come to look something up. That said George Ho is a prolific and good faith editor and a block is not warranted. Even if an argument could be made this ANI filing is inappropriate (no opinion on that) this call for a BOOMERANG is more so. JbhTalk 12:22, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. As OpenFuture has said, blocks are preventative not punitive. This is a punitive measure. On a side note, the comma wars looks to be the next in line after the emdash war, the diacritic war, the engvar war...
Who posted this? I felt sure that with so many ANI posters opposed to my proposal, at least one must have been make dickish ad hominem attacks against the messenger, so even after withdrawing I was reading these !votes. I was happy -- and frankly quite surprised -- to see not a single DICK comment, but reading the above I sensed a kindred spirit in someone who recognizes the diacritic war as something in the past (Ctrl+F this page right now for "diacritic" to see why I was happy with this), and I would like to barnstar, or at least thank, whoever wrote it. Hijiri 88 (やや) 13:43, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think it was User:Blackmane...Lectonar (talk) 14:11, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: Indeed it was. Forgot to sign, thanks @Lectonar:. Blackmane (talk) 15:21, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, GeorgeHo is commenting on a possible misuse of removing commas from articles, as the closer of the RFC said that commas on Jr.Sr. could be grandfathered on older and feature articles. A block makes little sense when someone brings up a legitimate issue. Randy Kryn 13:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close nothing here In ictu oculi (talk) 18:43, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

John Carter continuing to post on my talk page despite repeated warnings not to

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

John Carter (talk · contribs) recently logged out and posted on my talk page, even though he knows I am uncomfortable with him posting there unless he is specifically required to do so. Almost a year ago, I told him several times to stay off the page, and he by-and-large obliged, but then in the past 24 hours he attempted to get around this by posting on my talk page while logged out (the IP is definitely him). His other recent (logged-in) edits indicate that he is following me.[194][195][196][197] Can I get an interaction ban? Or at least a warning to John Carter that following my edits and posting on my talk page while logged out is inappropriate? Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: Just thought I'd tag this on, as recent data seems not to have been fully convincing for some users. I noticed a while ago that John Carter almost never edits in the mainspace unless the article's title is "Bibliography of encyclopedias". In the last year he has made 23 edits to articles other than that, and of these 23, five of them were direct reverts of me, on an article he had never shown any interest in before. Hijiri 88 (やや) 00:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just read those diffs and I don't see anything abusive or harassing. Can you point out to me where John has done anything inappropriate towards you? HighInBC 03:47, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
John Carter engaged in a pretty aggressive harassment campaign against me and User:Sturmgewehr88 between April and November 2015, but I don't want to discuss it. I am under an IBAN with another user involved in the case, and the whole story was pretty unpleasant to begin with. But its zenith was probably these two concurrent and baseless ANI threads he started against us.
Anyway, I thought it was my prerogative to unilaterally ban John Carter from posting on my talk page if I am uncomfortable interacting with him -- isn't it? He has done the same to me. In this case he didn't just "forget", because he logged out to do so. Further, he followed me to WT:BIBLE, and while nothing in his comments either there or on my talk page was itself harassment, he knows I don't want him stalking my edits or my talk page and has continued to do so.
Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
IP editor does appear to be John Carter. John Carter hadn't edited on the WikiProject:Bible since October 2015, whereas Hijiri88 has been rather active this past month. John then comments on the RfC one day after Hijiri ([198]). Indeed John Carter hadn't edited since January 14, 2016 until this RfC edit. My understanding is that if a user "bans" you from their talk page, editing on it outside of required notifications is considered HARASSMENT. That and the following to the RfC seems like HOUNDing to me. EvergreenFir(talk)Please {{re}} 04:28, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No comment on the ban, but the time frame you sort of hint at seems to be a key point here. Considering John Carter indeed hasn't edited since January until recently and the edits happened after the edits to the talk page, saying they " "logged out and posted on my talk page" and "logged out to do so" is unproven. It's just as likely they hadn't been logged in for a while. Particularly since it would be fairly dumb to use an IP who's last edit was to a case page involving and naming Hijiri88. Since Hijiri88 had asked them to stay away (regardless of what that should mean) and I guess there must have been historic disagreements to result in this, it's unfortunate John Carter didn't either log in or declare who they were. However in absence of better evidence there was any intentional attempt at hiding who they were, I don't think not being logged in is particularly relevant other than a firm reminder to John Carter that they should either login or make it clear who they are in the edit if they are going to get re-involved in previous disputes. Nil Einne (talk) 05:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Nil Einne: The question of whether JC consciously logged out with the intention of avoiding detection is peripheral; I only mentioned it because otherwise someone would have asked me how I know the IP is him. I told JC to stay off my talk page and he came back, several times. His logged-in edits are almost as bad: he posted twice on a page he hadn't edited since June 2014 (subpages do not count), once in a thread I started, and once a thread someone else started about my proposal. I don't want this user posting on my talk page or following my edits, and I want an formal, mutual IBAN; John Carter said several times (admittedly last year) that he would be comfortable with such an IBAN; if a two-way IBAN is mutually acceptable, isn't this an open-shut case? Bringing up peripheral concerns about sockpuppetry is as far as I can tell pointless. (I did allude to my suspicions of deliberate sockpuppetry both on my talk page and in my notifications to JC, but I consciously avoided it in my OP comment here, because I knew it would turn into a red herring.) Hijiri 88 (やや) 05:52, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: If it's peripheral you should have chosen your words more careful. In your original comments here, you implied that JC had done it intentionally. As I said above you said "logged out and posted on my talk page" and "logged out to do so" which implies there was a delibrate obfuscation on the part of JC. Open and shut case doesn't excuse you making accusations with insufficient evidence and it was fair of me to point out you had done so. A simple example which doesn't make such accusations would be
"recently posted on my talk page, even though he knows I am uncomfortable with him posting there unless he is specifically required to do so. Almost a year ago, I told him several times to stay off the page, and he by-and-large obliged, but then in the past 24 hours he did so while logged out (the IP is definitely him). His other recent (logged-in) edits indicate that he is following me.[199][200][201][202] Can I get an interaction ban? Or at least a warning to John Carter that following my edits and posting on my talk page is inappropriate?"
You can easily come up with many different examples of wording which conveys the point. In other words I agree it's a red herring, as there's no reason why you can't mention the evidence, without accusing JC of intentionally logging out to post out your talk page when you have sufficient evidence to make such an accusations and where what evidence that does exist suggests it probably wasn't a delibrate action. But it's a red herring which you caused by your actions here at ANI.
Nil Einne (talk) 05:48, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Nil Einne: I know it was a poor choice of words, and I apologize. My only defense is that it was less a deliberate attempt to lead the reader than a Freudian slip ー I legitimately believed that evading detection was John Carter's intention, as indicated by my comments on my own talk page. I initially drafted the above OP comment with a lengthy discussion of why I think this, but then realized my case was still fairly weak, and would be pretty pointless to boot (an OB like John Carter isn't going to be blocked for one small instance of sockpuppetry). When I removed this discussion I guess I wasn't as thorough as I should have been. Hijiri 88 (やや) 06:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose IBAN I am not seeing anything mean spirited here. The links you give show John either talking about articles or explaining how Wikipedia works. You "banning him" from your talk page seems to be in response to reasonable comments. If we are to CBAN based on two people being in the same places then we need a lot more evidence than has been presented. HighInBC 15:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:KEEPOFF is relevant here (though sadly underdeveloped even as far as essays go). Telling someone to keep off your user talk page is rarely helpful, and when done unreasonably, can lead to non-enforcement of that "ban". —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 15:12, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed. If you don't have a good reason to tell someone to go away then it is hardly harassment if they say something to you later. Harassment involves being harassing, not just failing to obey some made up restraining order. In both of those links where you tell John to go away the comments being made are measured and reasonable. HighInBC 15:16, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@HighInBC: He showed up at an ANI thread I started about his friend and deliberately misrepresented the dispute by pretending it was already under discussion on DRN. He engaged in off-wiki contact with ... someone who apparently really doesn't like me and then when I asked if it was the same site-banned user who had been posting my personal information all over the internet (and was at that time still actively engaged in emailing anyone who got in a dispute with me on Wikipedia, from a sock account -- email me if you want the details) he repeatedly misrepresented what I was saying as "of course someone without a publicly disclosed email must be engaged in sockpuppetry" (???) even though I explained my concern to him over and over again. He suddenly showed up on an article I was in the middle of rewriting and started trolling the hell out of me over one word in the lead, despite multiple users telling him to cut it out, and then when he didn't get his way on the talk page he opened an ANI thread (again: you say he was discussing article content, but ANI is not the place for that). Half the time I cannot make head or tail about what his beef is with me, and the only reason I can think of is that he is deliberately being antagonistic. When I told him to stay off my talk page he didn't until told more firmly to stay off, and then he came back again later, while logged out, and posted an inane non-sequitur apparently just to get another rise out of me (seriously -- look at what User:Curly Turkey and I were discussing, and then try to figure out what JC's contribution to the discussion was; if you can, then you understand the content of my talk page better than I do). And he has been stalking my edits to boot! What more evidence do you need? Hijiri 88 (やや) 23:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't convinced when Hijiri first started telling me that JC was hounding him, but after a couple of months of seeing him showing up everywhere—and often making bizarre comments like the one pointed out here—I'm convinced. I have no idea what a solution is, but I'm positive that he didn't show up at Hijiri's talk page to honestly be helpful—he obviously dislikes Hijirii too much. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:17, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. More dispute resolution could be a good idea, perhaps with a mediator or request for comment format. Also, essentially agree with analysis by HighInBC, at DIFF, above. Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 15:21, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Cirt: Dispute resolution about what? John Carter and I do not edit in the same areas, and even in those topics areas where there is a very slight overlap (I edit articles on biblical, Jewish and Christian topics, and JC very occasionally posts on these talk pages) the problem is not that we have a disagreement on content. John Carter followed me around for most of 2015 and reverted a bunch of my edits and caused massive ruckuses on talk pages and here on ANI, and I asked that he stay off of my talk page. He has refused to do so, while hypocritically imposing such a "stay away" restriction on me.[203][204][205][206][207] How on earth would "dispute resolution" solve an issue where there is no dispute other than a non-productive editor hounding a productive one? Further, if both John Carter and I want an IBAN (I think JC's last comment on the issue was I might also request an i-ban of him with me, but he might have said the same thing more recently), why should one not be put in place? Hijiri 88 (やや) 02:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking perhaps informally seeking out someone from the Wikipedia:Mediation Committee, but hopefully the comment from Drmies, below, will help clear things up and prevent problems in the future. — Cirt (talk) 05:14, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Proposal: Semi-protect Hijiri's TP longterm, officially warn John Carter that if he posts on Hijiri's TP again he will be blocked. Any discussion worth having can occur on article talk pages or other Wikipedia space. Softlavender (talk) 02:10, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • John Carter (talk · contribs), if that's you posting on Hijiri's talk page, please stop. You were asked not to and you have no choice but to obey. If you persist, you will be blocked--it counts as harassment. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:19, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"You have no choice but to obey"? Such an authoritarian command has to be based on the editor being ordered to obey Wikipedia policy or standards, not on what an individual says, even if the individual is an administrator. Please cite the Wikipedia policy that backs up your command to obey. In absence of policy, or an interaction ban, or some other preexisting sanction, I do not think an administrator can make a "do this because I say so, or else" threat. While it might have been socially impolite for John Carter to have made the user page post (if he did it), the post itself had a legitimate purpose and was not offensive or harassing under the Wikipedia definitions of offense or harassment. I accept Hijiri 88 feels the post to be harassing (which should be reason enough for John Carter not to repeat it), but I think harassment as a sanctionable offense should not be based on an individual editor's standard of offense or hurt feelings, but on accepted group standards expressed through Wikipedia policy. Without some sort of harassment within the post's content, or an intent to harass through the act of posting, policy does not exist that allows an editor ignoring a request not to post on a user page to be blocked for not following that request not to post. Or as HighinBC put it "Harassment involves being harassing, not just failing to obey some made up restraining order". Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 00:08, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Softlavender and Drmies. People need to stay off other user's talk pages when requested to do so. I'm hoping HighInBC and MSGJ are taking note of this. - theWOLFchild 19:31, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you have something to say to me you are welcome to do so at my talk page. HighInBC 21:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, will do. - theWOLFchild 16:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Saying "People need to stay off other user's talk pages when requested to do so" (a statement which I agree with) is very different from saying "People must stay off other user's talk pages when requested to do so". The latter is what Softlavender and Drmies appear to be saying, and I think it is not a position supported by Wikipedia policies. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 00:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I-Ban, however... An I Ban seems like unnecessary overkill,. That said a request by an editor not to post on their talk page has always been treated as something close to posting a "No Trespassing" sign with your name on it. In all but the rarest of circumstances such a request should be scrupulously respected. Failing to do so absent a very compelling reason has generally been treated as a form of WP:HARASSMENT. It may not be their private property but the community has long recognized the right of editors to some degree of control over their own user and talk pages. If John has been posting on the OP's talk page after being asked not to, he needs to stop. Period. An apology, on this page, not the talk page, would not be out of order. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am striking my opposition to an I Ban. Based on more recent comments from both parties I now believe it appropriate. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:57, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I should specify that the reason John Carter is not supposed to post on my talk page is that he and two or three other users put me through a lot of crap last year, to the point where I started to hate logging in and seeing that I had new messages, because I was worried about what new trickery they were up to. I'm largely over that "complex" by now, but it was still very disturbing to log on one morning last week and find that not only was John Carter back editing (and therefore potentially back to inflict more nonsense on me) but had posted on my talk page while logged out. John Carter knows the crap he put me through, and knows I don't like interacting with him, and he has been harassing me at this point for over a year. Hijiri 88 (やや) 01:30, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
None of this is relevant. The only issue here is that it is alleged that he has posted on your talk page after you asked him not to. That's it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:49, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This seems to me an attempt at continuing the irrational and frankly paranoid behavior that caused Hijiri to be sanctioned in the first place. I would also point out that there was no visible attempt on his part to notify me of this discussion on my user talk page, which is, actually, required, even though I have had to twice request him before to stay off my user talk page, and he seems to continue to ignore those requests. (Note: Actually, that is wrong. He did give such a notice, but started the post with a gratuitous and unnecessary request, which I believe could it itself not unreasonably be seen as being a continuation of his apparent absolute refusal to abide by my already repeated request to stay off my user talk page. Also, I suppose, maybe that requirement does not apply to people as exalted as Hijiri. I believe the issue here is the ongoing pattern of what I consider frankly insane conduct on the part of Hijiri, and I believe that it might not be unreasonable to request some sort of sanctions against him for this conduct on his part. I commented on two discussions at the talk page of the Bible project, because I watch that page and the WP:X noticeboard, where I saw the discussion listed. Of late, I have been spending most of my time gathering material for pages for Category:WikiProject prospectuses and Category:WikiProject libraries, and it is easier to do that without distractions. But I have reason to believe that the ongoing irrational behavior of the original poster here could be seen as being very reasonably grounds for further administrative action against him, particularly considering his refusal to adhere to my repeated request to stay off my own user talk page and the grossly inflammatory and unnecessary nature of the comment he added to the ANI notice despite having been told twice already to stay off my user talk page. Also, if anyone is interested, I would be willing to forward to them an e-mail I received from Hijiri, after my repeated requests to him to stay off my userpage, whose sole purpose seems to have been to tell me he wouldn't be stupid enough to do something. Evidently, sending such an e-mail to get around my request to no longer receive comments from him is something he doesn't consider so stupid. John Carter (talk) 14:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's a lot of self-contradiction, baseless insults, and questionable "facts" in the above long comment (which I finally mustered the courage to read from start to finish), but I'm going to limit myself to replying to the last part. I didn't email John Carter "to get around [his] request to no longer receive comments from [me]", as I had, frankly, forgotten about that request (I have, nonetheless, not posted anything on his talk page except what was required in some six months). This will be backed up by the content of the email (I specifically said I didn't want my dispute with him to clutter up any more of an ANI thread about Curly Turkey and CurtisNaito; I wanted to avoid posting here, not on John Carter's talk page).o there is no misunderstanding, I will publish the content of the email below. There is nothing in it embarrassing to me, but publishing it here will clearly prove John Carter's above claim wrong. Hijiri 88 (やや) 05:00, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
E-mail from Hijiri88 to John Carter, 2015/10/22, Thu 11:05; the edits to which I refer are here

John Carter, I'm emailing you because I don't want this discussion to clutter up the Wikipedia namespace or anywhere else more than it has to. I don't expect you to respond to this email, nor do I particular desire such.

Your repeatedly asserting that I was the collapser at ANI is disruptive. The collapser was very clearly NOT me, but Curly Turkey, who has nothing whatsoever to do with ArbCom and (unlike CurtisNaito) doesn't even want to be involved. For one thing, the collapse title referred to my initial response which barely mentioned ArbCom as "acrimonious bickering" over and unrelated ArbCom case -- something that clearly I would never use to describe my own post.

You accusing me of "assuming bad faith" by merely stating the facts, while at the same time actively assumed bad faith even though you must have known better (you claimed you had reverted the collapsing several times, so you must have known who you were reverting) is deeply hypocritical and very disruptive.

I'm going to forward this email to CurtisNaito and Yunshui (who I know is on a wikibreak but he's an Arbitrator with whom I have had prior dealings, both positive and negative, and believe to be a fair neutral observer).

Cheers!

Hijiri88

At the risk of hurting my own mental health (again), I'm not going to respond to or even read most of what I guess is another string of lies and deception in the above long comment, but in his edit summary he insinuated that I didn't notify him of this discussion, an obvious lie. I'm done putting up with your bullshit, John Carter. Stay the hell off my talk page, stop following my edits, and stop talking shit about me all over the project (and via email). Just stop. Hijiri 88 (やや) 14:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hijiri, to my eyes, the single source of bullshit here is you. First, despite your evincing what some might see as your opinions to the contrary, you are not in divine, absolute control of everything. You cannot demand that everyone do exactly what you say, while at the same time acting in the irrational and counterproductive way you so regularly do, which can also be seen by your similar refusal to address the concerns of myself and another in the ArbCom case which led to your current sanctions. Refusing to deal with reality does not make it go away. I am more than willing to see the end of your own paranoic ranting myself, and have been since the first time I told you to stay off my user talk page. Under the circumstances, I think the most reasonable thing to be done here would be for you to display the capacity to engage in reasonable conduct yourself, something which I think has been rather visibly lacking from you for some time. John Carter (talk) 15:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here you go folks, two characteristic examples of the language of John Carter. Notice first that he missed the notification of this discussion on his talk page and decries Hijiri for it. He also bashes Hijiri's characher numerous times (irrational, paranoid, insane, etc) and flat-out lies about Hijiri's past editing and sanctions to make him out to be a villain (can he not tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese after being so deeply involved in that dispute?). He acts like this is all about him being a victim, never recognizing that this is about him posting on Hijiri's talk page. He demands numerous times that Hijiri must stay off of his talk page, but later accuses Hijiri of thinking he is God for demanding the same! And of course he finishes with a holier-than-thou sermon on conduct. I just wonder if anyone else took the time to read all of his posts and notice the same things that show up in pretty much all of his posts. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 16:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, it surprises nobody that — Preceding unsigned comment added by John Carter (talkcontribs) 16:27, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@John Carter: I recognize the tone of the above six words as being yours. Could you please finish, sign, or remove it? Hijiri 88 (やや) 00:23, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Sanctions

  • Support I Ban for both parties and propose 30 day block for Hijiri88 for grossly uncivil commentary on this forum and using it as platform for attacking another editor in a manner that is completely out of bounds. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:57, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ad Orientem: Yes, I said "bullshit". This may have been a bad call. I apologize for any offense my use of foul language caused. This was not my intention. John Carter just has a habit of bringing out the worst in me (indeed, he seems to enjoy doing so on a semi-regular basis), which is why I told you of all the nonsense he put me through last year. I should have said "obvious and demonstrable lies". But John Carter said the same about what I said, including the word "bullshit" (immediately above). The question is whose accusations are demonstrable. I have provided evidence that John Carter has made up stuff about me (I'll search for the diff where I specifically pointed out to him before he posted below that he and I interacted on the Historicity of Jesus talk page back in 2014, if you need it). Hijiri 88 (やや) 15:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You can't be blocked just for using profanity such as that. If that were case, half the admins here wouldn't be admins due to massive block logs. - theWOLFchild 10:09, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • weak support I-ban and sanctions as per the above, although I have questions about how it might deal with questions of effectively banning individuals from discussions. Specifically, Hijiri has only since his topic ban from Chinese topics shown any substantive interest in Christianity, and honestly I can't rule out the possibility that his more or less newfound interest in that topic might not be a form of "reprisal" on his part. John Carter (talk) 15:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How am I supposed to be civil when John Carter keeps lying about me like this? I have been editing Christian topics for years and I have never been topic-banned from Chinese topics! The above looks like a not-so-subtle way to try to get me sanctioned for violating a topic ban to which I was never subject, as I have started editing much more in a certain topic (Chinese culture) since my recent topic ban. John Carter has been making my Wikipedia life miserable for a year, and now I am being threatened with a block simply for reporting on it and responding in a (pretty reasonable, given the circumstances) fashion to his continued harassment. If someone can demonstrate that John Carter has not been lying about me and harassing me for the last year, including in this very thread, please do so. Hijiri 88 (やや) 15:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Civility is not optional. If you are unable or unwilling to conduct yourself with a minimal level of decorum then you might want to consider finding another project to work on. Because the kind of invective you have been throwing around here is not acceptable and if you persist in this behavior it is not going to end well. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I said "bullshit". John Carter also said "bullshit". John Carter told a long string of lies about me, with the intention of bringing sanctions down on me. He has not provided any evidence of his accusations, and I cannot be expected to let them stand. I have already apologized for my use of foul language. But the harassment and pathological lying also need to be dealt with. Hijiri 88 (やや) 15:18, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is becoming increasingly clear that you just don't get it, and I am starting to doubt if that is correctable. Civility is not limited to the use of gutter language. I stand by my recommendations above and am going to move on unless something actually new comes up on this thread. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:23, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is it to do with me accusing John Carter of lying? I provided evidence. Is it to do with my "thanking" you for an edit that appeared to be dismissive of me? I didn't take it that way -- you made a reasonable point, and I didn't see the point of continuing discussion further beyond indicating that I appreciated what you said. Is it to do with my going on and on about the mental trauma John Carter put me through? You are supposed to assume I am telling the truth, and if you want more evidence, I can provide it to you (preferably by email, for the reasons outlined below). Is it because of something else I said? If so I will try to work on it, but simply saying I am uncivil and linking to a policy page I have probably read a dozen times over over the years is not helpful. I know I have had a lapse in civility. It is because John Carter has put me through a tremendous amount of ... painful experiences, just remembering it makes me very upset, and has already caused me to lose several hours of sleep over the past week (fortunately I'm a school teacher in Japan and am on holiday at the moment). Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(e-c) And the record of the Arbitration case from last year at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Catflap08 and Hijiri88 and related pages rather clearly demonstrates that throwing invective, possibly virtually any time anyone questions him, seems to be perhaps one of Hijiri's more persistent habits. And the primary b.s I see being thrown is still from Hijiri, and his as yet completely unsupported accusations about me. I am more than willing to forward the e-mail to anyone who requests it, other than Hijiri of course, for verification. Also, as per the evidence page I linked to above, Hijiri himself has a rather well documented history of making life miserable for others, including accusations of sock-puppetry from the beginning of editing, as per TH1980's evidence on that page. I believe that much of this is due to his repeated insistence that someone who has contacted me regarding his conduct is a sockpuppet of someone he had previous trouble with. For what it is worth, I myself went through every step I could to determine independently the identity of that person, and find that the likelihood of his being the same person as Hijiri's earlier stalker is pretty much nonexistent. I also have some reason to believe that the ArbCom itself was aware of the identity of the person I had been in e-mail contact with at the time of the arbitration, and there is nothing in the results of the arbitration to indicate that they considered Hijiri's allegations of sockpuppetry by his former stalker worthy of direct consideration. And, if someone wants to talk about unsubstantiated allegations, the worst ones in this matter are Hijiri's repeated insistence that, apparently, only that former stalker could ever disagree with him. A position which, I believe, is ridiculous on the face of it. Regarding use of "gutter language," I think even a former arb somewhere has said on a userspace page that in at least some rather extreme cases it is appropriate to call something "bullshit," or "ridiculous," or similar, and I personally believe that discussion of Hijiri's conduct and apparent deeply-held beliefs may well be one of them. John Carter (talk) 15:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ad Orientem: Yes, civility is more than just the use of "gutter language"; does calling someone "insane" breech civility? Or any of the character-bashing John Carter has continuously done since his first post? Or that inflammatory lie that Hijiri never editied Christian articles before and got TBANned from Chinese topics? That last one especially, considering the deep involvement he had with Hijiri, calls either his competency or integrity into question. He should share any sanction placed on Hijiri. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 16:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, I would think that in this particular case, when I personally very, very much believe the individual in question is paranoic, which generally qualifies as insanE, i personally would not think so. In this case, it is the most accurate, if blunt, description of the individual in discussion possible. And it will be noted in the numerous previous discussions regarding Hijiri that roughly synonymous words have rather often been used to describe Hijiri. I guess it should also be noticed that Sturmgewehr88, whom others have in the past accused of engaging in almost knee-jerk defense of Hijiri on a regular basis in the past, keeps up one of his habits, of himself making accusations without any evidence whatsoever. Also, I think it would be interesting to anyone involved to see him comment, I forget where, in the ArbCom case to the effect that he couldn't find anything which indicates people are responsible for their own actions here. Such a comment might be very interesting to note in this instance. Also noting the obvious and rather transparent inflammatory lie made by SG above, in which he grossly misrepresents my statement to indicate that I said Hijiri has never edited in the field before. I challenge him to, before engaging in further hysterical accusations, to perhaps read the comments of others and not misrepresent them. I said he has shown litle interest in the field, not that he never edited it before. In my history with you, SG, I have to say that I have yet to see you demonstrate much if any capacity for engaging in useful discussion youself, and that you have, as per an e-mail you sent me which I forwarded to ArbCom in the case mentioned above, had to seek help from Hijiri before starting an ANI in his defense. I also note that SG has had to be told to stay off my user talk page twice as well, apparently, like Hijiri, not being perhaps bright enough to understand it the first time, which might be yet another common characteristic beyond the 88 that they share. John Carter (talk) 16:27, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
making accusations without any evidence whatsoever John Carter, just drop it already. Ample evidence has been provided that I edited Christianity- and Bible-related topics long before my recent topic ban, and even interacted with you on such pages, and that my recent topic ban is on Japanese, not Chinese topics. Maybe you just forgot about all of this, but your continuing to claim that you were not forgetful but in fact correct in your accusations indicates that you are acting in bad faith. Why did you choose to randomly replace "Japanese" with "Chinese"? Why specifically "Chinese"? Unlike Christianity/Bible articles, I actually hadn't been editing China-related articles with any frequency before December. Were you following my recent edits and planning to get me blocked for violating an imaginary topic ban on Chinese topics? Did you really think the blocking admin wouldn't review what my topic ban actually says before blocking me? And did you really think you could get away with this blatant lying?
And could someone please explain to me why I am the one being threatened with a CIVIL block when John Carter says things like I personally very, very much believe the individual in question is paranoic, which generally qualifies as insanE and insulting the intelligence of other users (not being perhaps bright enough to understand it the first time, which might be yet another common characteristic beyond the 88 that they share)
Also, I'm not going to read much into it, but John Carter is aware that false accusations of neo-Nazism have been made against myself and Sturmgewehr88 because of our username. John Carter is perhaps not aware that other users have been blocked for two months for calling me a Nazi. I was logged out at the time, though -- I was not editing logged in because of a chilling email I received from another user who has also since been indefinitely blocked by Drmies. I don't see what benefit JC sees in bringing up our usernames yet again. (Also, I wanted to point out yet another incidence of me editing Bible-related articles in May 2014. Thing is, I think John Carter and I actually agree on most articles related to Christianity, so I really don't understand why he refuses to cooperate with me, and instead insists on denying that I ever edited articles related to Christianity, when he knows that's an argument he can't possibly win. Also, note that in the thread linked, I indicate that I am intimately aware with the contents of Christine Hayes' 20-hour lecture series on the Old Testament. I sure went to a lot of effort to cover up the fact that I'm not really interested in Christianity/Judaism/Bible-related topics, what with watching an re-watching YaleCourses video series over a year before my conflict with John Carter even started. Apparently I have magical foresight and am so obsessed with wikistalking John Carter that I sunk hundreds of hours into intense research of the topics John Carter is interested in and I am only pretending to be interested in.)
Also, can I add that calling WikiProject Bible -- and particular discussion of the Hebrew Bible -- a "Christian" topic is Christocentric and offensive to Jews? I know a lot of Christians (and non-Christians who live in Christian countries) tend to forget that that the Hebrew Bible, including the Book of Psalms, is a Jewish and not a Christian text, so this is probably a good faith mistake, but I would ask John Carter to kindly stop using this language.
Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This appears to be becoming yet another attempt by Hijiri88 to post incredibly long wall-of-words comments without directly addressing the concerns or statements of others, something that has been repeatedly noted as being almost standard operating procedure from him. I do not remember having ever said you never edited articles relating to Christianity, although that now seems to be two people who are making that accusation. I remember having said you didn't edit them, and, honestly, your record of editing history seems to indicate you don't edit them frequently, perhaps less frequently than some other topics. Granted, it is always hard to respond to someone who states in their own responses that they haven't actually necessarily bothered to read the comments to which they are responding and/or will not address the matters those comments raise. And, for what it is worth, personally, at least in the context of this site, I don't particularly give a damn about my own opinions regarding Christianity, although I find it interesting that you appear to be indicating that such is my motivating purpose in editing the topic. My interest is in getting the material as encyclopedic as possible, although I do note the rather apparent attempt to impugn my motivations in your statement. Regarding the completely irrelevant and off-topic comment about indicating that I consider the Bible "Christocentric", well, I noticed that discussion because it was and I think still is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard, which I think I mentioned. Jumping to such unfounded allegations as that one is indicative to me of perhaps some people attempting to raise completely irrelevant and unfounded aspersions and insinuations for no readily identifiable purpose. I find it remarkable that once again Hijiri is jumping to conclusions about the motivations of others, a rather repeated habit of his. And, regarding my obvious and apparent mistake in the Japanese/Chinese statement above, I made a mistake there, based on bad memory. Despite Hijiri88's apparent belief to the contrary, other people do at times make mistakes, and cross-examination of others or seeking to find "hidden motives" to determine some conjectural "deeper motivation" where there isn't necessarily any such motivation is a rather frequently noted characteristic of the paranoid. However, my apologies in making an honest mistake. John Carter (talk) 17:21, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This appears to be becoming yet another attempt by Hijiri88 to post incredibly long wall-of-words comments without directly addressing the concerns or statements of others Can you give a specific example? Anyway, you said Sturmgewehr88 made accusations without evidence, and I provided evidence backing up everything Sturmgewehr88 said. The only way you could not have noticed this is if you didn't read Sturmgewehr88's remark before accusing him of "making accusations without any evidence whatsoever". Please actually provide some evidence of the endless string of accusations you are making against me. I have gone above and beyond what should be expected of me, given the restrictions that are already placed on me giving detailed descriptions of our prior interactions. Your first comment in this (former) sub-section consisted of a single massive lie, and both Sturmgewehr88 and I called you out on it. You have been dodging the question by claiming it was a "mistake" to confuse "Japan" for "China", but you still have not addressed the elephant in the room -- that you accused me of "following you" to "Christianity articles", even though I have been more active than you in contributing to those articles for years. Hijiri 88 (やや) 17:48, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Of course you provided evidence. As I think can be seen from the e-mail received by me which he forwarded to me, which I myself forwarded to ArbCom, just like in that exchange, you provided the evidence for him to post. This seems to me to very, very seriously raise questions whether he acts on his own particularly often, or whether he simply plays the role of a sort of meatpuppet for you. John Carter (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, John Carter, I was well aware of this discussion well before you were, and had you not posted in the manner that you did, I may well have not posted here at all. I already know that no matter what anyone says or does, you'll continue to character-bash Hijiri and I (and anyone else you don't like for that matter), you'll continue to be a blatant hypocrite (complaining about WP:TLDR in a TLDR post, seriously?), and you'll continue to, in the popular term of the day, spout bullshit. As in 99% of the ANI threads involving John Carter, this one will become a monstrous wall of text that leads to nowhere but the archives. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 21:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the evidence is I think rather clear that dedfending Hijiri88 is one of your primary purposes in Wikipedia. I am frankly amazed by your comment above that you seem to think it surprising that someone respond to an ANI thread against them. I once again note, although a bit more explicitly this time, that, at least so far as I can see, you have rarely if ever demonstrated any particular grasp of policies and guidelines, no more than Hijiri88 anyway, and that your comment above about how I am engaging in character-bashing in your eyes, which I personally think as the person making the comments in question are more evaluation of the conduct of that editor and the dubious rationality of many of his actions, that your own comment above is to my eyes a much clearer attempt at character-bashing. And, once again, I note how both you and he had to be told to stay off my own user talk page twice by me, which can be seen by the archives of my talk page and your own, and that this could raise some questions regarding basic competency on the part of both of you. John Carter (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi: I emailed you, as I am not at liberty to respond to the above on-wiki, but I will say that one needs to examine the context -- at least one of those violations was because of frustration that the other party had violated the IBAN by reverting my edits, and I was not able to get any traction by reporting on ANI because John Carter showed up and derailed the discussion multiple times. Hijiri 88 (やや) 15:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately am unable to access emails atm. It seems rather bollocks not to be able to use an ANI as neutral ground- in this case, to be able to respond to my comment! Which may, or may not, be unfounded. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 15:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is a discussion of a potential IBAN between me and John Carter. You referred to one or two prior IBANs, one of which is still in effect. I can tell you that (despite what John Carter said in 2015) Tristan noir was the only one who violated my IBAN with him back in 2013, and Drmies apologized fairly quickly for falling for Tristan noir's fabricated "incident" in which I supposedly violated it. I emailed you the details of some of my later blocks related to the other (still in effect) IBAN, at least one of which was fairly similar. I am not allowed discuss the other party or their actions on-wiki, and therefore am not able to give you the details. Suffice to say the other party reverted my edits, I reported on AN, John Carter derailed the discussion, and (much later, after the same thing happened) I reverted back in frustration. There was a lot more to it, though. Please read my email if you get a chance. If we were discussing the IBAN in question, I could go into detail (but I don't want to -- again, just remembering all the stuff John Carter and his amazing friends put me through causes me to lose sleep). Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support IBAN as John Carter clearly has no intention of stopping following Hijiri around. Oppose block for being utterly petty and serving no conceivable purpose—shame on the proposer for proposing something so pointlessly disruptive. Curly Turkey🍁¡gobble! 22:22, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • I find the above comment more than a little ridiculous myself, as it seems to be implying that taking part in an RfC on the talk page of a WikiProject I regularly consult and taking part in an ANI discussion about me is in some way following Hijiri88 around. John Carter (talk) 23:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Regularly consult" meaning that the last time you posted there was two years ago? Seriously? Further, how do your explain your continued activity on my talk page, and you do you explain your mysterious Freudian slip? In the half-dozen ANI threads you started on me requesting that I be TBANned from "Japanese culture", and in the ArbCom case where you appear to have requested the same (most of what you wrote was apparently in the form of emails to the committee, so I can't be sure), you don't seem to have ever even once accidentally written it as "Chinese culture", but now a few days after my writing an article on a Chinese topic and my commenting on WikiProject China about a month ago, you suddenly make this "mistake"? You were clearly following my edits. Hijiri 88 (やや) 00:14, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • it seems to be implying that taking part in an RfC—it implies no such thing—I don't even know what RfC you're talking about. I'm talking about you following Hijiri around and making a nuisance of yourself. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:36, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support IBAN and Oppose block, both apply to both editors, two-way IBAN. It is most unfortunate, to be sure, but John Carter (talk · contribs) himself commented in support of the IBAN, and after my prior initial comment, unfortunately, the tone of the rhetoric appears to only have significantly degraded, on both sides of the aisle. — Cirt (talk) 22:28, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding the nature of comments, I once again urge all involved to see the history of comments by Hijiri as presented in the Arb case, which indicates to me that degraded discussion is the norm in any discussion in which Hijiri88 feels challenged. My one reservation about an i-ban is that there does seem to be some reason to think Hijiri88 might be capable of making some useful contributions in the topic of Christianity and the Bible, particularly of the early Christian era and what is sometimes called the intertestamental period. He is currently banned from his most favored topic area, as per the ArbCom ruling. Honestly, if he could get around the paranoic ideation he rather regularly seems to indulge in, he could I think be a reasonable contributor in the Biblical/Christian/Jewish field, and I wouldn't want to see that ended. At the same time, however, the fairly long history of paranoic ideation on his part does raise concerns in my eyes that there may be no reason to think that such thinking will change, and, possibly by extension, that his own habit of stalking others, including me and the currently inactive Catflap08, as can be found supported in the ArbCom case, raises questions about whether that stalking behavior on his part will continue, along with his fairly regularly demonstrated extremely emotional responses. There is still a huge amount of missing and underdeveloped material in that field, and I would welcome seeing it developed, but I have very serious questions whether the problematic conduct he has rather regularly displayed in regards to many people will be a driving force in his own contributions in that area. John Carter (talk) 23:36, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In this case, we actually have a very handy control. Before taking John Carter's word for it (that my rhetoric is always degraded because I had a few slips during a very heated ArbCom case initiated by John Carter), please examine my repeated engagement in these three other currently-open ANI threads, as well as my engagement in this thread before John Carter showed up and started attacking me, and the other detachable comments I have made in several more ANI threads. In none of them, even in this thread before last night, did anyone call me out on my "degraded discussion"; in fact I received several "thank"s for my comments (User:HighInBC, despite being very skeptical of me earlier on in this thread, just last night thanked me for this general commentary on the nature of AGF and NLT). John Carter brings out the worst in me, because that is what John Carter is trying to do. If I am able to comport myself in a polite, civil, respectable manner in every situation where John Carter isn't trying to bait me, then how could blocking me and not John Carter possibly be a solution? John Carter was the one who degraded the rhetoric in this discussion, not me. This is just one more reason why an IBAN is needed, by the way. Hijiri 88 (やや) 01:27, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support i-ban, no comment on block. Since it seems both editors agree to the iban and the back and forth between them in this pages suggests it's needed, I think it's a slam dunk. I don't think the ability of editors to follow the iban should concern us too much. The only general alternative is some sort of ban. I don't think a topic ban would help between the editors so the other option is a community ban. But I think it's better to give any editors rope, as annoying as it may be to have to deal with iban violation discussions at ANI i.e. hope the iban works and if it doesn't block them as needed. Nil Einne (talk) 06:08, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Could a non-ninvolved Admim review and close this thread? I think very little of substance is being added at this point, and what we have is a long shouting match between two editors who appear to be in agreement on only one thing. They need to be separated by an I Ban. Thanks. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:01, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hijiri, when you make a claim on ANI and request an IBan or other sanction, you need in your OP to make your evidence, claim, and diffs of longterm abuse airtight so that the case is open-and-shut. You really failed to do that, and consequently your case is very weak and led only to massive he-said-she-said squabbling on this thread between you, John Carter, and fellow supporters of either of you. There's no use trying to retroactively make your case three or more days after you filed it -- it's too late then and only adds to the muddle. Now it's just a big mess and no one really has the time or inclination to get to the bottom of it -- at this point people are merely judging who has the worst mouth and who has been most insulting or bad-mannered on this thread. If I were an admin I'd just close this thread as a mistrial, and say please everyone can we please play like adults, and try to avoid people that we are getting overly entangled with. I don't think anybody at all on this thread has made a case for anything, and the fault is mainly because your OP was little more than a barely substantiated whine. Can we please all just drop this and find something on Wikipedia to be improved? Softlavender (talk) 07:13, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A week ago I would have agreed with your last sentence. I wanted John Carter told off for not respecting my wishes that he stay off my talk page. I didn't provide extensive evidence of long-term harassment was that (apart from my IBAN with another user preventing me from providing/discussing most of the evidence on ANI!) that I sincerely expected that if I expressed my willingness to submit to the mutual IBAN that John Carter proposed several times, John Carter would show up, apologize for posting on my talk page, agree to a mutual IBAN, and that would be that. I did not expect him to wait several days before showing up and posting a bunch of very long comments about what a horrible person I am. If you want a complete summary of John Carter's harassment of me over the last year, with diffs, I will try to put one together and email it to you later this week. Hijiri 88 (やや) 07:45, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how it works, Hijiri. If you don't make your case in your OP, you generally have very little chance of getting what you requested, and an overwhelming chance of the thread turning into a free-for-all, as this has. Time to call it a day. Softlavender (talk) 09:27, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Look, this thread is supposed to be wrapping up, so I don't want to star a fight, but twhen you say "that's not how it works", it seems to be based more on your personal opinion than on any PAG. Uncontroversial requests, such as a mutual IBAN that has already been agreed to by both parties, generally do not require a tremendous amount of evidence up front. Everyone here except you, including both John Carter and myself, seems to support the IBAN, so can't we just give it a rest and, as you say, find something on Wikipedia to be improved? Hijiri 88 (やや) 09:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did not notice that John Carter had posted a "weak support" on this thread, above. On that basis, perhaps this IBan should be enacted. Softlavender (talk) 04:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with Ad Orientem and Sturmgewehr88. Hijiri 88 (やや) 09:48, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I once again notice what I believe is the oft-repeated and I believe very possibly pathological behavior of Hijiri88 in trying to divert attention from possible errors on his own part and blaming others for them. This seems in a pattern with his previous behavior, in which he seemed to blame virtually every disagreement he had with anyone on the intervention of his stalker of years ago. He seems to have developed a tendency to I believe demonstrably erroneously believe because, in his eyes, that stalking individual is violating policies and guidelines, and is according to his thinking the sole motivating factor in virtually any disagreement he has here, he is free to violate those policies and guidelines as well. That is not and never has been acceptable here. Continuing in similar behavior, even if the original reason is unfounded, isn't either. I would also, frankly, include in a possible I-ban here me, Hijiri88 and Sturmgewehr88 and possibly others, because I believe that there is an easily demonstrated history of possible collusion on the part of those last two editors in particular, and possibly others, perhaps similar to that in the WP:EEML. Lastly, I find it laughable that someone who sent me an e-mail saying he had to contact me somehow, despite having been twice told in no uncertain terms to stay of my user talk page, to indicate he wasn't as stupid as he thought I indicated in a comment, not realizing such behavior is no better than violating the request to stay off the user talk page, and, frankly, far from indicating that person isn't stupid. I believe such behavior, and that very very weak grasp of policies and guidelines, and/or a possible belief that policies and guidelines are less important than him defending himself at any and all costs, including violations, indicates someone whose grasp of conduct guidelines is at best very weak and very very possible indicative of the possible incompetence of that editor. John Carter (talk) 15:10, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to point out that I didn't mention my dispute with JoshuSasori ("his stalker of years ago") even once in this thread. John Carter seems to want to keep bringing this up in order to portray as a "paranoid psychopath", but I seriously have not engaged in any of the paranoid behaviour he accuses me of having engaged in in this thread. I honestly have no idea what bringing JoshuSasori up will accomplish here. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:56, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As, per the above, John Carter has renewed his long-time request for an IBAN with me, I would also like to request an IBAN with him. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 04:02, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seriously? Is there no one who can close this? It doesn't seem that complicated. We have two editors who can't stand each other and are mutually requesting an I Ban and most of the comments seem to be on board with that. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:44, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Small comment by uninvolved party: I don't have any strong opinion or recommendation about what to do in this case, but I do find it alarming that by all reports and evidence John Carter is blatantly lying on several fronts in this thread (and that fact is backed up by Sturmgewehr88). If Hijiri were a clearer and better (and less volatile) presenter of evidence/refutation this would be more obvious, but as it is this is sort of buried in the TL;DR mess of this entire thread. I don't think that John Carter should get off scot-free here, considering these deliberate falsehoods. Then again I don't have any recommendation of what to do, other than at the very least somehow prevent John Carter from hounding Hijiri and Sturmgewehr88. I weary of personality disputes, but frankly I have no patience with blatant lying. (By the way I am a totally uninvolved party here -- have never edited any of the pages or alongside any of these users.) Softlavender (talk) 07:49, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Continued disruption from previously banned IP editor "Claudia"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP editor 115.188.178.77, who calls herself/himself “Claudia” and loudly expresses regressive and occasionally racist views of Maori culture and New Zealand colonial history, has been blocked at least three times for disruptive editing and obnoxious behaviour, including under the IP address 122.62.226.243.in 2012[208], 2013 and 2014.

She continues to wage a crusade through talk pages against the highly respected New Zealand historian James Belich. Past tirades are here, here, here, an in the four threads archived at the Belich article talk page, here. Her renewed attack is at this talk page; she (again) cites the authors Pugsley and Richards in her derisive comments, though when challenged recently to produce the actual statements of those authors, she could not.[209] I deleted her last Belich comment on the grounds that it was an attack not relevant to the article; she restored it and added a further criticism of Belich: see Talk:Duncan Cameron (British Army officer)#No Personal attack on Belich.

Out of nowhere she has launched an attack on another respected historian [210]; she has also made claims about another historian's conclusions [211] which in that thread I quickly proved to be completely fabricated and wrong. This echoes her past attacks at historian Michael King, prior to her last 12-month block.

Her past behaviour has included faking citations (see this complaint); her recent efforts have included adding a fictionalised “quote” within an article which was nothing more than a stab in the dark of something she had once read (see this and this thread.) Despite her past blocks her edits tend to be inflammatory and trollish and she has a long history of inserting demonstrably false claims within historical material that reflect her strong anti-Maori outlook. She is highly disruptive, creates loads of work for other editors to clean up behind her. And her trail of long talk page posts are usually unsigned. She has not learned to be collaborative and has not modified her behavior. BlackCab (TALK) 01:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If I may add to this. I have encountered Claudia on many occasions. She/he is so persistent, unreasonable, and closed to any attempt of a civilised discussion that my policy has become to take a page off my watchlist once Claudia starts to take an interest in it. Schwede66 01:36, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Am I right in thinking this is a LTA editor? Do we have a page where all the reports of this editor are logged? The earliest report I can find is December 2012 (edit: mentioned above)--Malcolmxl5 (talk) 02:11, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I had the same thoughts. Something pinged in the back of my mind about an editor would slag off a source based on what they read but could never produce evidence of that material merely insisting that they were sure they had read it and others who disputed should just take their word for it. I'm also wondering whether that person was banned. I don't think there was a LTA page for them though. Blackmane (talk) 02:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • For reference, the contributions of this IP 122.62.226.243 (talk · contribs · logs).
  • Aha found something! ANI archived report. I also found that I participated in the block discussion...how about that?
  • Pinging @Daveosaurus:, @Gadfium:, @Stuartyeates: who have some history with this user. Also pinging @Carrite: and @Softlavender: who contributed to the discussion and had some dissenting views as well as @EdJohnston: who blocked the IP. Blackmane (talk) 03:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Claudia has been editing since at least July 2009, and the question of how to manage her edits has been discussed sporadically since September 2010. Her edits have not improved since her year-long block in November 2014. I think a ban from articles on New Zealand history, broadly construed, would be appropriate.-gadfium 03:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've pulled together a table of reports to the administrator noticeboards. Let me know if I've missed anything. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 03:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a couple of blocks to the table. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 06:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And added the BLPN report.--Malcolmxl5 (talk) 06:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Date Report Note
1 September 2010 ANI/19th century New Zealand history
16 August 2012 Blocked for 31 hours
5 December 2012 ANI/Racially charged editing by IP 122.62.226.243 at articles to do with the New Zealand Wars Blocked for 31 hours
6 January 2013 Blocked for 48 hours
14 January 2013 ANI/IP user flagrantly ignores WP:V and WP:NPOV
10 May 2013 3RR/122.62.226.243 reported by User:BlackCab Blocked for two weeks
2 July 2013 Blocked for one month
13 August 2013 ANI/User_talk:122.62.226.243 advice and guidance please
7 November 2014 ANI/Well-meaning but clueless IP editor Blocked for one year
1 April 2016 BLPN/Duncan Cameron (British Army officer)
In July 2013 Claudia was also blocked for a month by User:Moriori for similar behaviour. [212] That's four blocks I'm aware of, but still no modification of editing behavior. BlackCab (TALK) 05:16, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A recent interaction with Claudia, to show the level of aggravation she creates, is at Talk:Treaty of Waitangi#Proclamations 1840 style. BlackCab (TALK) 05:25, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing more to say on the topic not said above, except that the primary target, James Belich (historian), has continued to receive professional accolades, implying that professional historian community in no way shares the IP's views. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Given the singlemindedness of this person in their attacks on this historian and that their editing is restricted to topics about NZ history, a topic ban would amount to a site ban. Given their disruptiveness, that might actually be a better option. Blackmane (talk) 02:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure a ban on the topic of NZ history would do the job. Claudia has also launched her attacks on conventional historical narrative (complete with conspiracy theories) at the talk pages of such articles as Māori King Movement, Parihaka, Waitara, New Zealand and Treaty of Waitangi, which she could conceivably argue are not articles on NZ history per se. She was given very firm guidance at the time of the last 12-month ban on how to conduct herself, but is in fact doing exactly the same thing. Unless the topic ban was for anything related to New Zealand, I would prefer a complete block, and a longer one this time. BlackCab (TALK) 03:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Claudia does seem to have a couple of other interests: boats and bicycles, from memory (and a cursory look at her recent contributions). I don't know enough about those subjects to know whether or not there is any value to her contributions, but at least those subjects don't seem to be as full of BLP-violation potential as New Zealand history.
I agree with Gadfium that a topic ban would be approriate - at least as a first step. Maybe a permanent topic ban from the history of New Zealand, or anything to do with the Māori people, or any biographies of living persons - or any combination of the three, up to and including all of them. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This editor has not changed her editing behaviour since the last block. This edit, summarising/paraphrasing the first paragraph on this webpage, confirms my suspicion as to her identity, at the same time confirming that many edits originate from her own work. This is certainly suggestive of extensive POV pushing. DerbyCountyinNZ(Talk Contribs) 06:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
DerbyCountyinNZ, is that related to the bulk of material on the Pre-Māori settlement of New Zealand theories article? Similar self-published authors involved here. BlackCab (TALK) 07:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so, maybe just coincidence. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 07:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd honestly guess that it's not her site - Claudia appears ignorant of even basic Wiki markup while whoever produced that page seems to at least know their way around a content management / web page creator program. I'd just put that down to Claudia being unable to tell good sources from bad - she's had that problem before (once I had trouble finding any evidence that one of her sources even existed other than as an Internet document, because she used a garbled version of its name that the only other occurences then findable in Google all traced back to one white-supremacist blog). Daveosaurus (talk) 10:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no interest in outing Claudia, but that website and that ideology probably help feed her conspiracy theories that lead to the denigration of Belich, King, Orange, Dalton, O'Malley and every researcher ever employed by the Waitangi Tribunal. BlackCab (TALK) 11:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please let us not stoop to outing. The IP's ideology is not the problem; the IP's long-term disruptive editing style is the problem. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Drmies, you blocked her in 2012 and 2013 [216], [217]. -- Softlavender (talk) 11:16, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to the editor who gave the actual link to this page.The volume of criticism is rather overwhelming and it seems to me rather reactionary and misguided. I cant deal with it all now but a core problem seems to be that I am expressing my personal opinions about J Belich. For those editors who are not kiwis Mr Belich wrote a book based on his PhD about the NZ Wars in which he came up with a whole range of new ideas and theories. The book was very readable and popular and later made into a very popular 10?part TV seriesback in the 1980s and has entered NZ culture as the TV series was then made into a detailed teaching resource for secondary schools which was widely used I understand.

Black Cab (and his cheer leaders) seem to think that I have "made up" the criticism of Belich. This is just not true. After his first edition Belich himself was aware enough of an undercurrent of criticism of his book and some of his themes-enough to revise the 2nd edition and in particular add in the preface an admission that as a young man he had an "anti British attitude" and he was a "revisionist". It was a kind of explanation /apology.

Since then a raft of well known military historians especially Chris Pugsley and Richard Taylor (both army officers as well as historians) have criticised Belich in far more detail. Pugsley's main effort was in the short lived NZ Defence Quarterly in which he systematically debunked many of Belich's theories. In 2013 M.Hill completed his study of the Taranaki war in which he looked in detail at the historiography dealing with the war. He assembled some of the criticism of Belich in this MA thesis."The First Taranaki War. MA in History. Massey University.M.R. Hill 2013".It is now on line. Most of the information below is between P26 and 30 To summarize some of the points : 1 He identifies a range of historians who have issues with Belich and presents the evidence. 2 That Belich did not understand the mechanics of war. He did not understand military terms such as strategy, tactics or ammunition. 3 His idea that Maori invented trench warfare "was universally dismissed". 4 Not visiting or walking the battlefields (until many years later)and as a result making errors in distance and time leading to misunderstandings. 5 Maxwell (another historian) says"Belich mislead readers". 6 Belich "is virtually under seige" 7 I McFarlane wrote to Penguin complaining about "factual inaccuracy". 8 He says there is a"strange anti British and pro Maori undertow"(P30) 9 That Belich turned what were merely rumours into facts.

This is a brief summary only of Hills work. Note neither Belich nor his publisher have ever attempted to answer any of the points raised but Belich did leave NZ. I should note that when I pointed this out 2-3 years ago one editor made very snide remarks suggesting I was " attacking "him. As you can see it was not me attacking him but other historians.ieIT is fact that he was being criticised by his peers and he did go overseas. I should point out that there are only a handful of NZ historians working in this area (I would say about 12). NZ is a small market and as one of Hill's sources has said "its not possible to criticise Belich in NZ " -by that he means, I guess, the general ,ie not well informed, public.

I think a few editors have very fixed(maybe even partisan) views on NZ history so have come out with weird and wonderful accusations to justify deleting views that don't coincide with their own rather old fashioned notions. It is typical of such views to say that a different view is racist! They appear to have worked themselves into a digital lather! My position is that all views should be presented and in particular views or information that shows that an older historian was "misguided!" because they were writing with a deliberate intention to revise( Hill's thesis would suggest possibly distort) history. Marxist historians(of which NZ has had a few) are very good at rewriting history to support a particular political point of view. In the academic world informed criticism is welcomed. But Belich prefers not to answer it seems. You may wish to read M Hill and comment further? I'm pleased to answer any questions, though my response may not be immediate as Im very busy at work.115.188.178.77 (talk) 04:23, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is never about whether you 'have "made up" the criticism of Belich'; the issue is whether you have supplied reliable sources for claims you have inserted into wikipedia. All claims on wikipedia need reliable sources, that's what makes it an encyclopedia. I believe I speak for the consensus of editors when I say that we don't care what you say about Belich, or Belich's research or the subjects of Belich's research. What we care about is having sources for claim, positive or negative and including them in useful ways in the articles. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:44, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This comment by Claudia demonstrates her misinterpretation and BLP violations resulting from it. Reading her statement, one could be forgiven for assuming that he had left New Zealand 'under a cloud'. But nothing could be further from the truth. He had in fact been appointed to a professorship at Oxford University in England, here [218] described as "one of the top jobs in the world in his field"; "awarded to a historian of exceptional and international reputation."
Another example of inability to correctly comprehend statements, this time without BLP problems (all participants are pseudonymous) is here: User_talk:122.62.226.243/Archive_1#Where_to_go_from_here Claudia at the time was claiming that for vague privacy-related reasons, she couldn't sign up for a Wikipedia account. I pointed out "If you create an account, nobody but Wikipedia administrators (and maybe only certain administrators, at that - this isn't something I've paid much attention to) would have access to your IP address"; Gadfium confirmed my suspicion, and clarified: "Administrators (such as myself) can't see a logged in user's IP address. It takes a checkuser, who goes through additional scrutiny and has to reveal their real-life identify to the WikiMedia Foundation, to see that."; which Claudia interpreted as "Thankyou gadfium for your information -it seems that old Dave was wrong again." If I'd been editing under a real name, that would have been a BLP violation right there - at least as I see it (but I seem to be a bit tougher on BLP than I should be). Daveosaurus (talk) 13:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Add 219.89.178.121 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 125.237.39.161 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) BlackCab (TALK) 23:24, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
User:Stuartyeates says: "I believe I speak for the consensus of editors when I say that we don't care what you say about Belich, or Belich's research or the subjects of Belich's research." In fact part of the problem is the fact that Claudia is using Wikipedia articles and talk pages as a soapbox for her distinctive view of NZ history, which involves a campaign to discredit Belich and other historians. I provided the links to some of her talk page comments at the outset of this complaint; at this edit she goes further by unilaterally deciding that Belich's view is not only wrong but has no place in the article at all. I keep finding long soapbox comments, many of them unsigned, at a range of talk pages where she expounds her unique take on history and lambasts real historians. She has been advised many times to start a blog of her own rather than misuse Wikipedia pages. BlackCab (TALK) 13:01, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

Sample proposal: Since disruptive behavior has resumed following a one-year block (and four five prior blocks over the previous two years), perhaps a CIR indef or site-ban is in order. Softlavender (talk) 11:38, 9 April 2016 (UTC); edited 04:02, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've been doing some sleuthing on the net and have come across some interesting information regarding this issue and have a working hypothesis of what is going on here. However, the conclusion violates WP:OUTING. Suffice to say, there is a real world implication here, particularly at a professional level if Claudia is who I suspect it to be, provided it's not an impostor. If any admin wishes to seek further information from me, they are free to email me. On that note, I strongly support a site ban. Blackmane (talk) 12:43, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Considering she is targeting specific historians (all of them living if I'm not mistaken), and attacking them, a COI would not surprise me in the least. Given Blackmane's statements, I strongly support a site ban as well. Softlavender (talk) 13:33, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a site ban for an indefinite period. The editor has shown no willingness to modify her behavior. BlackCab (TALK) 13:44, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support another one-year block I think an indef and site-ban is too much. Another year will hopefully get the point across. Not wanting to bring WP:BEANS to this individual's plate, but, an indef might encourage sockpuppetry. If a year doesn't do the trick this time, then an indefinite block can be put in place. Yes, I know they have been blocked previously, but I'm all for giving chances. -- WV 19:09, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support either a site ban or a one-year block. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban. Four blocks never fixed the problem and another won't either in my opinion. The number of hours that editors have spent undoing her damage must be mind boggling. The first sentence of WP:Disruption says "Disruptive editing is a pattern of editing that may extend over a long time or many articles, and disrupts progress toward improving an article or building the encyclopedia." The cap fits. Moriori (talk) 21:24, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban. She's been editing since 2006 (at Bucklands Beach) and is getting worse, not better.-gadfium 21:43, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban - TBH, I'm quite amazed that the individual wasn't site banned, long ago. GoodDay (talk) 04:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban - Her history of disruptiveness and personal attacks are quite staggering. The community should not put up with this appalling behavior. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support site ban. There have been enough chances for an improvement in behaviour. This editor is causing others a lot of grief and work; this has to stop. Schwede66 19:08, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Repeated recreation of deleted article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

These users keep recreating an article about Jin from BTS (band) (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jin (singer)). Jin (Bangtan Boys) is their (they claim to be friends) fifth recreation since January. See their talk pages for a record of this. Some were redirected, and some were deleted. They have also both uploaded the same copyvio image on Commons. I think blocks may be needed to stop the constant recreation. Random86 (talk) 13:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • G4'd that one. Zad68 13:27, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh good grief. These people take themselves so seriously. Redirect and protect, is my best suggestion. Guy (Help!) 13:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both Moon... editors blocked. Zad68 13:33, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP vandal editing

Could someone research User:31.149.155.204. There is a trail of questionable edits associated with this IP. Thank you. Mitchumch (talk) 09:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Couple of kids mucking about at a school in Alkmaar, NL, it would seem. (non-admin comment) Cheers, Gricehead (talk) 10:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's a school IP. They've long stopped now. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Automotive IP user

An user with different ip addresses wants to use the words "utility vehicle" in lots of articles. It has been discussed at WikiProject Automobiles, and almost everyone agreed that it was a bad idea. That didn't stop him from edit warring to the point that three pages were protected yesterday. Today he continued with the same type of edits in other articles: 202.94.72.250 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) And when I reverted his edits he begun reverting edits by me and by another user that has reverted his, including several edits in articles unrelated to the "utility vehicle" dispute: 116.212.233.96 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) All the ip addresses he uses seem to be located in Perth. Boivie (talk) 11:33, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yes. The IP editor is reverting random edits from all those he deems to have been against his utility vehicle crusade. I suggest IP block Australia, that should fix it. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have utility vehicles in Australia, we have utes. Blackmane (talk) 02:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
New ip again 49.199.120.128 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) Boivie (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I put a couple of blocks in place, keep us up to date. Thanks for the report. Zad68 12:36, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if there is anything further that can be done?
I'm assuming a huge range block can't work, as blocking an entire ISP's customers is not what wikipedia wants to do.
Protecting articles might be hard, as this guy will just go to wherever isn't protected.
What happens next? I'm assuming he will get bored and move on to abusing people on facebook or something equally mature. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:16, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. Special:Contributions/49.199.76.170Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:17, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Noted... Zad68 13:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are things that can be done. Preference is to start with the lowest-impact tools and see if that does the trick. Zad68 13:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fundamental problem here is that the world fails to use the correct terminology for utes, instead calling them pickup trucks. Wikipedia should promulgate a new policy mandating all Americans to start using the word ute, as God intended. Until then, we could try an edit filter or semi protection. Or play whack-a-mole. Guy (Help!) 13:31, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure my suggestion of range blocking all of Australia, would be equally effective. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wot? FortunaImperatrix Mundi 14:09, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
IP from Perth. Clearly they are concerned about the impending Australia range block. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 14:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I read this as "please block this IP as well". Was that not what they were saying? Guy (Help!) 14:15, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure, perhaps they were saying please block my entire ISP ? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point is a resonable discussion has already been held and most participants including those from Australia and New Zealand (like me) already understand the issues. This discussion appears to have reached some sort of consensus, or at the very least there's no consensus for your changes. Despite that you're edit warring to make these unsupported changes and if you were using an account you'd probably already be indef blocked. But since you're edit warring with multiple IPs, either we have to block the entirety of Perth Optus users or use WP:RBI. From now own don't be surprised if this applies to your comments anywhere including here since you're still block evading, so they can be removed and you ignored, not because there has not been a resonable discussion or because people don't understand or because they are going off point. You're Australian so I guess we can make some allowances for you being slow on the uptake but even so.... DucksNil Einne (talk) 16:33, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps an edit filter to stop this? I'm going to send my army of drop bears at you, Nil. Blackmane (talk) 02:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One point that I was slightly concerned about... Are editors that continue to revert these edits by the IP editor subject to 3RR? I'm quite happy to revert this guy 24/7, if I know that I won't be subject to any sanctions for making 20+ reverts per day on a single article. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOT3RR: "3. Reverting actions performed by banned users, and sockpuppets of banned or blocked users." The IP was blocked for an extensive period of time. IP's are users even if they switch IP. Feel free to revert away. Although you might get bored before they do, I lived in Perth for 3 years and it is singularly the most boring place in the world I have been to. And this is after living in Thetford. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:10, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE - IP 49xxxx, is a blocked individual merely evading his/her block. Please delete or ignore their posts. GoodDay (talk) 14:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

European Graduate School - the return of Claudioalv

Hi All. I had mentioned that Claudioalv and i were talking off line, to talk through his COI issues more candidly. He has now posted a disclosure on his user page.

This was one of a few options he and I had discussed for his next steps in Wikipedia. In light of his choice and the disclosure he has made, I am posting the following diffs for the community's consideration. I had also provided these to Claudioalv and given him my thoughts on them.

  • here Claudioalv says it is his understanding that what Guy said about him is "defamation"
  • here he says to Guy "On the opposite, you still refusing to look at the 2015 Accreditation in Malta and you used this talk page and the EGS article to defame the School by abusing your power as an administrator (for example I was blocked without any reason and now I am thinking that other users that you call sockpuppetry had the same treatment)."
  • here he says about Guy's editing: " In legalese I would call that bad faith and defamation"
  • here he says that Guy has "maliciously built an article in order to defame the EGS"
  • here he says "Waiting 30 days is just postpone the issue that an editor is defaming EGS by keep posting false information."
  • here he says to Guy "You are here to defame the school and not to write a neutral Enciclopedia and because the Wikipedia weak policy you have been successful"
  • here he says to Guy "By refusing to recognize Maltese law is showing that your conduct is malicious, and your only purpose here is defaming EGS"

I am not sure if he still "owns" these statements or would retract them; I believe he understands Wikipedia somewhat differently now than he did before we started emailing offline. But I will leave that for him to say, and of course the community will do with all this as it will. Jytdog (talk) 05:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The references to defamation are a clear implied legal threat and need to be removed.
I did not create the article. The edit history shows that I have made exactly two edits to the article, almost a decade apart. Two.
In point of fact, I would be astounded if the creator was anyone other than the school itself. The initial version makes no mention of the accreditation issues even though it pre-dates the accreditation of some courses by Malte, so was at a time when no accreditation was apparently in place anywhere. As I think others have said, nobody cares about this article other than them (as a marketplace) and a few Wikipedians who are not entirely delighted with commercial entities abusing Wikipedia for promotional purposes. Of the two, the more motivated by far is the school. That is why they have sent so many WP:SPAs to whitewash the article over the years.
Finally, does anybody here genuinely think that legitimate schools need to hire attorneys to bully people into calling them accredited? Srsly? Guy (Help!) 09:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that at least one editor has weighed in , I will say that in my view these statements are clear violations of WP:NLT - especially given their repetition and the fact that person who made them is an attorney semi-representing the school - and Claudioalv should be indefinitely blocked for making them. They can address whether they wish to retract these statements in their unblock request. Jytdog (talk) 17:47, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest reading the thread above WP:ANI#Legal threat in edit summary?[219](and still not archived off this page), in particular User:Newyorkbrad's remarks. Thincat (talk) 20:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, Thincat, for the cross-reference, as I'd like for more people to read what I wrote in that thread. OF course, the portion of my comments dealing with treatment of newcomers wouldn't apply in full to a much more experienced editor. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of WP:NLT, as I understand it, is to prevent the chilling effect of threatening potentially expensive off-wiki legal action. In this case the mention of the user's position in a law firm and their relationship with a lawyer retained by the subject is certainly intimidating, and it's hard to believe this is not intentional. Guy (Help!) 22:52, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Jytdog for your explanation about Wikipedia Policy. It was very helpful. As I have already written you, I was not aware about the rules, policy, and regulations in Wiki. It was my understanding that by reading the terms of Use I could write in the talk page (actually I have never edited any article).
I apologyze with Guy if my affirmation (what I said are personal opinions and do not reflect EGS statements) made above constitute legal threat and WIki does not allow it. It is clearly stated in its policy, but I did not read it. I retract them and I am fine to remove them. I do not know how to do it, but if the community does help me, it would be great.
hatting OFFTOPIC part of this
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

However, I do find that the School does not merit to be defined as questionable or pasty (as Guy did), because of the history of the article. I think that Guy does not know the School, but by defining the school in this way he is not an independent administrator who should look over the article(in fact, he reverted the article half an hour late a different ad update it with the Maltese accreditation). That was the reason why I opened the ANI. He would never change his opinion, nor if the President of the U.S. would say that the school is accredited. I was familiar with the EGS accreditation since January 2016 and the history dates back to years. Not being recognized in Texas, does not mean that the school confer degrees mill. This is the general understanding by reading the article and this is not true. I have also sent to @Jtddog the full official maltese accreditation. It was conferred in February 2016 (before the school was an Higher Education School and now it is a University with the recent maltese accreditation). There are no publications about the recent U accreditation because it is recent (however some Maltese article mention the 2016 accreditation, see Rfc in the EGS talk page). I do not understand why Wiki policy does not allow to say that the school is accredited in Malta(this info relies on an official governmental institute documentation and even if it is primary it is verifiable on their website) and we need to wait for an independent article. I think this is discrimination, because Wiki relies on Texas official Department of Education info and does not rely on the Maltese official governmental accreditation. By and large this was the argument I raised. I do not think administrators who looked over the article are idiots, nor I think I am. I do agree with Jztdog: "nobody cares about this article other than them and a few Wikipedians". But what about if Wiki defines your business "pasty" or "questionable"? Would you be happy or would you try to say the contrary if you have good reason to say that? EGS is not my business, and I did not promote them. I was just aware about the Malta accreditation (and the fact that two U.S. states does not mention anymore EGS in any list) and I spent my free time raising an argument on Wiki. I was probably wrong in "how" to raise this argument because I am not an expert of Wiki. But the content of my argument is based on official documents. I know that you disagree until an article publication is made and I still do not understand this rule. But I appreciate your time in clarifying me the Wiki policy. Thanks.

Claudioalv (talk) 23:00, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You really don't seem to understand. Texas says that EGS degrees are nto acceptable. To list any institution's degrees as unacceptable is rare and notable. Of course EGS disputes this. There is enough copmmentary in the (non-RS) discusison boards showing serious problems with EGS courses and teaching, that I, personally, would not override the presumption that this unusual fact should be included in the article. Now I myself would not have created an article on this subject, because I do not think EGS is a significant school, but EGS seemingly decided to use Wikipedia as part of its marketing; on Wikipedia we absolutely do not offer a subject any form of editorial control and it is pretty much inevitable that well-sourced criticism will be included. If the subject also engages in a years-long campaign to remove criticism then the bar to including material proposed by the subject in rebuttal to independent sources showing the subject to be less than stellar, increases. It's a variant of the Streisand effect. Wikipedia articles are warts and all, and this is foundational policy. Guy(Help!) 23:35, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Guy Your problem is not the Texas info. Texas does not accept degrees conferred by EGS and include the school in that list. This is written in their website. I am not saying that is not true. It is also written that they are reviewing the list for EGS request based on the recent maltese license. However, the problem I found in the article and that was not likely to discuss with you (cuz you blocked me and tryed to ban me) was about the Maltese accreditation (or license) and the Michigan and Maine statements. Both do not include EGS in any list anymore so the current info is not longer true. I am not crazy since an other ad who is looking over the article is posting the same argument I wrote 2 months ago and I tryed to raise. About the Maltese license, even if the source is primary it is official, so to me WIki does not need any further secondary source. However, I can be wrong because I am not an expert of the Wiki policy. That's it. When you say: "Now I myself would not have created an article on this subject" is the reason why asked to the Community that an other editor could look over the article. You do not like the school so you would never have allowed any positive contribution about the school. And so you did. Finally thanks to Jtydog the truth is coming out. I should have done it before rather than asking for RfC, mediation and arbitration. This is only my regret. Claudioalv (talk) 20:42, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, this ANI thread is not for discussing the content dispute. I have hatted content-related discussion. So Claudialv has retracted the legal threats. The community can determine if that is sufficient to close this, or if Claudioalv should still be indeffed for having made them at all. Jytdog (talk) 23:48, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Or as a disruptive WP:SPA on a mission. Guy(Help!) 07:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I want to edit an other article. My roommate is listed in Wiki with her husband surname even if they divorced some years ago. Divorce certificate is not listed anywhere, she tried to update her article, but she found this task very challanging and the current status is not longer true. I hope that this time I do not have to disclose that I am her roommate, nor that I am not going to charge her for editing a Wiki article. Thanks. Claudioalv (talk) 15:36, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then leave a note on the talk page. Guy (Help!) 19:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Persistent adding of unsourced puffery on page Frederick Achom

Aliopuka(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Frederick Achom (edit talk history links watch logs)
User:Aliopuka, has been vandalising the page Frederick Achom. He/she has made the same edits User:Alex1977-1 was blocked for making. You can check [220]. They both seem to be part of a large sockfarm of paid editors.NihartouJason (talk) 19:31, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Appears to have been inappropriately waning NihartouJason(talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)Jim1138 (talk) 19:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Non-admin comment. I am a little concerned when I look at Aliopuka's contribs, because they seem to be getting around awful well for somebody with just 80 edits, slapping speedy deletes and CN and uncat tags on things. However, they may just be a very quick learner and not be a sock at all. We need a checkuser to be sure, and their edits don't look like "vandalism" and "puffery" to me anyway. Also, NihartouJason, it's not right to go around telling people that they can't edit a particular article. See WP:BOLD. White Arabian Filly Neigh 21:03, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am very concerned with the content Aliopuka is supporting. Quite a few of the references do not exist or mention the subject at all. (ex [221] <- looks like spam as opposed to reference [222] [223] [224] [225]). As such, I've removed those warnings as bogus. Also, I might want to point out this. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 21:41, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This looks more like the PR department of a firm than actual sockpuppets. Guy (Help!) 21:58, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment : Actually, NihartouJason is vandalizing the article without taking part in the talk page discussion despite repeatedly asking and I have opened this discussion[226]. He is blatantly removing sourced material including awards and adding defamation content which clearly violates WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE.

My first edit to the page was[227] for which I left this talk page message[228] Later, when I saw removal of sourced content such as awards, career etc. from the page's edit history then I tried to add them back[229] from a neutral POV with {{cn}} where no sources were provided such as[230], [231] etc.

But instead of contacting me or leaving any message to any talk page, NihartouJason reported me here[232] where I made this comment[233] as NihartouJason seems to me a SPA account with a particular interest to insert defamation content only to the article. He has been warned on his talk pages but still he is reporting me instead of addressing the real issue on the talk. Aliopuka (talk) 02:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@The Voidwalker:, I am not supporting any sources. I just tried to restore the deleted material removed by the SPA account[234] and repeatedly ask to discuss on the talk page to reach a consensus instead of blatantly removing the sourced materials. If the sources do not cite the claims then anyone can remove from the article with suitable edit summary or talk page message.Aliopuka (talk) 03:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@JzG:, The SPA a/c User:NihartouJason seem to me a paid editor who might have any monetary issues with the subject of the page thus trying to add the defamation content to the page. Aliopuka (talk) 03:31, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Aliopuka: You are accusing me of not explaining myself on the talk page. Please have a look here. [235],[236]. My main concern is that if you have good intentions then why are you editing the page as the blocked user User:Alex1977-1 did, you just changes the language structure a bit and restored the previous questionable content[237].I reported him and he was blocked and is currently undergoing a sockpuppet investigation. And why do you keep removing the conviction information even when it is properly sourced. NihartouJason (talk) 04:16, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So, finally you posted on the talk page[238]. Well, let me explain you. I used the revision by User:Addiecolb and not of any other editors. Secondly, you should discuss on the article's talk page and not on your sandbox. I checked your sandbox draft talk page and it is one sided judgement by only you. I do not see any other editors involvement in it. For example, you said the Jewish Business News source has no author but the news was by their staff reporter so need of a author however, the source does mention "By Jewish Business News" or you said this link[239] doesn't mention "Achom" while the source does mention him so you see, this is not a procedure to reach consensus. Why you removed the awards as well as presented the controversy with undue weight? What is your particular interest with "Frederick Achom"? Please, post your rationale on the article's talk page and treat appropriately with other editors. Aliopuka (talk) 06:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The sandbox was created by User:Jeff G. and he invited anyone to present a more balanced article[240]. After completing the draft article, I posted the link on the main article's talk page no one objected it. I messaged a few editors who were active on this article to check my version. They told me if no one else obstructs then they will assume Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith. The awards you are referring to were not supported by any evidence the ones which were, I bumped them up to the intro section. The controversy is not of undue weight just google "Achom Wine Fraud"[http://www.standard.co.uk/goingout/restaurants/wine-scam-costs-investors-110m-6326500.html

] and you will know about it. Why do you keep removing it even after it is supported by adequate number of references?.NihartouJason (talk) 07:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    • Yes, I made that sandbox and did not oppose copying it to the main article after Jason was done with it. I am just trying to improve the project here, but I suspect others are POV pushing and not disclosing, which behavior warrants attention above my pay grade. — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 23:04, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have checked your edits and wine fraud scam edits seem legitimate to me based on the sources you provided. However, I will further check all the references. But still you haven't answered why you removed the other adequately sourced materials? Why you mentioned that this link[242] didn't mention "Achom"? Do you know you can't just delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer? Also, I do not know why User:The Voidwalker undid my warnings on your talk page and stating those warnings as bogus as they were not! Anyway, I have asked him for his rationale as you have clearly removed sourced material from the article which I have restored and are still there on the page.Aliopuka (talk) 13:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I removed the warnings because I could see serious referencing issues in the material that was being removed. However, a more thorough review shows that a good bit of the material is quite acceptable. Ordinarily, one should review the material they add/remove to an article.
I don't really believe that there is much abuse going on here, rather than a failure to understand. More discussion, rather than templating or reporting, likely would have solved the issues here. Time permitting, I plan on going through the article and cleaning up the material. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 22:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • From the very beginning I insisted on discussion but the SPA User:NihartouJason reported me twice! Any editor can check the page's edit history how sourced material was removed by User:NihartouJason. I just tried to restore the deleted material and reach consensus for improving the project. If removal of large section with awards/accolades, careers is not against Wikipedia norms then what are? If you see serious referencing issues then you could have discussed on the talk page or with the concerned editor instead of removing the warnings. Please, also note that the SPA User:NihartouJason was previously warned for removal of sourced content. I have just tried to restore deleted materials first as there were edit wars on that article (check the page history for clear understanding). Clearly, your judgement was wrong! Anyway, I undid your removal of warnings as the warnings were not "bogus" IMO and left a message on that talk page. Feel free to discuss regarding this and honestly, I checked the removed materials by the SPA user and not all the material had serious referencing issues as you stated. Further the SPA editor reported me instead of discussion or any talk page message as per standard Wikipedia norms. Btw, if you see any referencing issue then feel free to discuss on talk page or edit yourself with a edit summary. I will be happy to discuss on any improvements to the article. Regards, Aliopuka (talk) 05:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As far as article content goes, I'll review soon to solve the issues I pointed out above, and will be discussing article content on the article talkpage. As far as the warnings go, I was on the edge about them, and won't be making a fuss about them. NihartouJason certainly could have handled the situation better by talking more. Addressing the behavior here is difficult. -- The Voidwalker Discuss 20:06, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Panama Papers

I'm sorry if this looks like canvassing, since I left a message a few minutes ago at WP:BLP/N too. but I'd appreciate additional eyes (preferably eyes familiar with WP:BLP) at Panama Papers, in particular the list of specific people alleged to be clients. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's being handled ok, or if anything too conservatively. E.g. the name getting the most press attention is Vladimir Putin, but he's not even mentioned in the wiki article because his involvement was through an intermediary, and the intermediary isn't mentioned either, maybe because he's not a head of state (he is a cellist closely associated with Putin). 173.228.123.194 (talk) 04:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion: @Floquenbeam: I don't think it's canvassing, especially if it's a very short brief succinct neutrally worded notice. I'd suggest posting notices to the article talk pages of those subjects related to the issue in the article. — Cirt (talk) 00:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The alleged Putin connection and the allegations re. his cellist friend, I'll call them the Putin issue if I may, are right now a horrible mess. There are a few editors convinced that it is all a conspiracy and wishing to delete all they can re. the Putin issue, and the result at this moment is that the allegations have disappeared and the reactions to them are still there. This is an absurdity, but it is also a product of the way in which the article is organised, as few can get a proper grasp on it all. Boscaswell talk 10:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can I please ask an admin or three to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Panama_Papers#Complete_reorganisation_of_the_article_is_required.2C_and_soon, in which I've set out how I think the article should be reorganised and why it needs urgent action. With page views pushing 400,000 yesterday, it is a biggie. Boscaswell talk 10:51, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Same issue on Talk:Vladimir Putin#Panama papers, but it seems to be (very slowly) moving forward there.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We are slowly moving towards large-scale edit warring in Vladimir Putin.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • With Putin saying the whole Panama Papers affair is just a conspiracy to "get him", I would think that he should be mentioned in the article. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:43, 9 April 2016 (UTC).
    [reply]

DrChrissy

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I hate to do this, but it looks like DrChrissy is on some sort of vendetta against me and has WP:WIKISTALKed me to the page Earth Similarity Index.

For some background, DrChrissy is topic banned from GMO and alt med articles. The reasons for this are the account's combative attitude and the problems related to pseudoscience promotion at those delicate areas. I have tried many times to bury the hatchet with this account, and it just seems impossible. The account seems bound and determined to go on the attack.

It was with some trepidation that I noticed the account followed me to an area I'm working on that is part of my professional expertise.

Silence from DrChrissy for two days

This is becoming a big distraction, and owing to DrChrissy's topic bans on other pages, I'm wondering if an administrator might get him/her to not attack me on discussion pages?

Thanks,

jps (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One of the collapsible boxes at the top of this page is "how to use this page" This clearly states New threads should carry an informative, neutral title. The title to this thread is clearly not neutral and is deliberately intended to Poison the well. DrChrissy (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unduly promote... Your opinion and how long ago was that. Come on jps don't try and muddy the discussion here by disqualifying the editors who take the time to speak. I tried to be fair here. This comment does no one a disservice but you.(Littleolive oil (talk) 19:44, 8 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Spare me the crocodile tears. I know what your agenda is here and your attempts to be "fair" seem to include making mostly negative statements about me. If this is what you call trying to be fair, I would prefer it if you voluntarily stayed away from conversations that I start which do not involve you. I'll do the same for you. Fair enough? jps (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually jps my agenda was to look at this and be fair. I looked at the diffs and saw nothing that supported your allegations and supposedly no one else did either. I wanted to be neutral and to assume the best faith with you and Dr Chrissy so suggested you both walk away You asked for input you got it but you mischaracterized that as potential stalking. I have no idea if Dr Chrissy is following you around but there's nothing in the thread that indicates he is. You did canvass another editor. At the same time I suggested you both drop this; that's fair. I could have made other suggestions based on what you've said here; I didn't. I'm sorry you see my actions this way and are reacting with nastiness. I have no fight with you. Actually jps my agenda was to look at this and be fair. I looked at the diffs and saw nothing that supported your allegations and supposedly no one else did either. I wanted to be neutral and to assume the best faith with you and Dr Chrissy so suggested you both walk away You asked for input you got it but you mischaracterized that as potential stalking. I have no idea if Dr Chrissy is following you around but there's nothing in the thread that indicates he is. You did canvass another editor. At the same time I suggested you both drop this; that's fair. I could have made other suggestions based on what you've said here; I didn't. I'm sorry you see my actions this way and are reacting with nastiness. I have no fight with you. If you bring a complaint to a NB you should expect input. And my point here was to check in and see what was going on with Dr Chrissy, who I have commented on before, and not you. You can blame your pointed heading for that which specifically mentions Dr Chrissy but certainly not you.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC))(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Go ahead and show me one diff of where you supported me in the last ten years. I can show you dozens where you opposed me. You should know that we have a history, and there is no way you can be fair towards me since you simply always take the side that opposes me. jps (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is becoming stranger by the minute. Drop it! I have not interacted with you in a substantial way in years.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:27, 8 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]
That's just nottrue. jps (talk) 20:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is. Very few if any of those comments were directed at you and were part of a larger discussion. I find jps' cmt deliberately misleading at the very least. While I have nothing more to say in a discussion that deteriorated as this one did; I won't let a misleading cmt like this stand.(Littleolive oil (talk) 17:22, 9 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]
  • Comment The "vague side eye" doesn't seem malicious in any way. The "disagreement with you" doesn't seem to contain any form of personal attack. The alleged "first personal attack" is where DrC questions your competence. Looking over the talk page, you do exactly the same in this section to another editor. I also see several other editors disagreeing with you, with one suggesting that a topic ban on you may be necessary to stop you disrupting the page and another pointing out, quite correctly, that if you want to question the info included, that you find a reliable source. Definitely a better move than insisting that you're an expert on the topic. Valenciano (talk) 19:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • You misunderstand the conversation. The question is not whether we should include criticism in the article. The question is whether the source that is used to determine a particular formula in the article is reliable considering the numbers have changed. I am an expert on the topic. It is not unreasonable to point that out. jps (talk) 19:09, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Jps is deliberately misleading the community here. I watch the WP:Fringe theories/Noticeboard. At 00:12, 4 April, jps posted I could use some more eyes from outsiders referring to the Earth Similarity Index article - here[243] Fourteen hours later, at 14:39, 4 April, my first edit to the article was here [244] In other words, I was responding to the request by jps, nor stalking or hounding. This is a vexatious thread and a total waste of the communities time. It should be dealt with accordingly. DrChrissy (talk) 19:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Butting in: I'm a long time proponent of respecting experts on Wikipedia; they are invaluable. Too often they are ignored. Sometime the experts have to declare themselves, but as well, editors have a right to question even experts. In all, I think this could go back to the talk page with a bit more understanding all the way around.(Littleolive oil (talk) 19:25, 8 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]

I encourage people to question me. It helps me understand a lot. What I don't like is when people who offer a bad source and I identify it as a bad source declare that I need to strike that evaluation because I lack competence and therefore they're going to ask for a topic ban. See the issue? jps (talk) 19:28, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not an admin and have probably overstayed my welcome here, but at this point may be try treating each other with more respect. Jps this thread mischaracertizes and Dr Chrissy you threatened. You are both experts in different fields so try putting yourself in the other's boots and let this go. You are both important to Wikpedia . Expert are not that common. I realize I'm being obnoxious despite standing behind my comments so will depart before the rotten tomatoes start flying.(Littleolive oil (talk) 19:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]
This does not mischaracterize the situation. DrChrissy shows up and has caused more problems and headaches. Given our history, ask yourself why that might be. That said, I'm happy to bury the hatchet (again), but I find working with DrChrissy tends to involve over-the-top histrionics and I'm fairly sure it's not going to let up. At least this thread will serve as a record if the problems continue. jps (talk) 19:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"At least this thread will serve as a record if the problems continue." I have a strong suspicion that this is the primary motivation for raising this thread against me. Jps has a long history of attempted character assassination against me. He is now obviously disrupting this noticeboard to generate further diffs for his future attempts to continue this. Such manipulation of the community and admins should not be tolerated. DrChrissy(talk) 20:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems you just want to fight. I don't understand it. I have seen zero olive branches extended from you. I'll try one more time: let's be nice to each other, okay? jps (talk) 20:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why should I offer an olive branch to someone who behaves in the way you do by raising this fallacious and disruptive thread against me? You continually try to discredit me. Even your opening title of this thread which has now been edited (thanks to the editor that did that) was clearly an attempt to discredit me. I have offered olive branches in the past to other editors and had extremely good working relationships subsequently. But you are way too far away from that yet. DrChrissy (talk) 21:04, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c)::You most certainly do not encourage people to question you. The very first diff you presented against me in this thread is here.[245] You described this as "The first edit is an obvious attempt to needle me". It was not. It was a perfectly civil edit to indicate that what you stated was not true under all circumstances. Your bringing this thread to AN/I is disruptive, your misleading the community is disruptive, your canvassing is disruptive and your continued attempts to character assassinate me are disruptive. I suggest admins start looking at action against you, and take into account your rather extensive block log. DrChrissy (talk) 19:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You know very well what you are doing. The attempts to undermine my good faith efforts to clean up a rather problematic part of the encyclopedia are plainly seen in the diffs provided above. I replied civilly to many of your concerns, even those which were, frankly, uninformed. The response I got was over-the-top demands that I delete my comments. You're trying to WP:BAIT and it is extremely tiresome. It would be better if you just stayed away from me. I'll be happy to return the favor. jps (talk) 19:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This appears this is a tactic to win disputes. I participated in the same ESI discussion and log in to find jps has filed an ANI report against me: James J. Lambden is wikistalking me. I believe his last comment implies I’m the IP editor as well. Apparently everyone who disagrees with him/her has an ulterior motive. Their tactics here (as with the White Pride article) have made participation unpleasant enough that I’m no longer interested - so credit where it's due. James J. Lambden (talk) 20:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • You participated in two AfD discussions that you jumped into out of nowhere. Go ahead and convince me that it wasn't because you were looking at my contributions. jps (talk) 20:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Involved comment: are you going to accuse me of stalking you too? I found AfDs that seemed dubious, then I found a shitstorm involving you and everything ESI/PHL-related, you survived my edit warring report unscathed except for a warning from EdJohnston by "extending an olive branch" to use the terms you used in the report, but in the meanwhile, you open ANI threads against other similarly involved editors and still accuse me of "standing in the way of Wikipedia editing" and alleging that I have a "vested interest" in the articles, nevermind that you didn't need to indirectly question my competence because you did it directly. At this point, I really start to question whether you are an WP:EXPERT who's here to improve the encyclopedia, despite the "expert attitude", or someone who is WP:NOTHERE except to get in trouble and try to get other people who disagree with your methods into trouble. I am this close to suggesting a WP:BOOMERANG. LjL (talk) 21:05, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why are you picking up the WP:STICK again? I notice that you seem to be discussing me with people outside of Wikipedia, right? Did I do anything to upset you after our last discussion on the Edit Warring board? Yes, I found your contributions at that time to be problematic (and still find those particular contributions to be blinkered). No, I am not going to accuse you of wikistalking me as we have no history. Now if you start following me around to different places, then I might start to wonder. jps (talk) 21:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ironically, this is the first content dispute I can recall involving DrChrissy where his editing does not seem to be problematic. It is quite possible he followed jps there, and I encourage other admins to check for evidence of wikistalking going forward, but this really doesn't look like anything actionable, for once. Guy(Help!) 22:11, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fair enough. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive. It's been pretty tough going trying to fix problems related to habitability of exoplanets. Go ahead and close if you want. jps (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this JzG/Guy. However, I would like to point out this is not a content dispute. Jps has raised this thread with totally false, vexatious accusations about my behaviour. His bringing this to the noticeboard must be considered and dealt with in this way, not as a matter of content dispute. DrChrissy(talk) 22:22, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As a matter of record, jps is well capable of digging his own grave and has done so numerous times before. Some of us are old and cynical and have long memories, we are not too bad at joining the dots. Your best bet is to be the better person, be confident hat you have established your innocence of the charges as presented, and leave it to the janotiros to tidy up the mess. Guy(Help!) 22:46, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - will do. DrChrissy (talk) 22:56, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I went through all of the evidence for myself, and I came to largely the same conclusion that Guy came to. The only point that I can add is that the source that DrChrissy added, that so concerned jps, appears to be one published out of Cuba. I am not knowledgeable about source material in astronomy, but perhaps this was in fact a low quality source. But nonetheless, I think that DrChrissy's conduct was just fine, and that jps overreacted. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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IP not making productive edits at templates

How should I handle this? 109.108.250.225 (talk · contribs) has been making drastic changes over several templates and articles and has been warned about it several times already [246][247][248]. Some categories are outright bizarre [249] (was warned about it by Jim1138. His edits at templates are also strange [250]. Since I'm only familiar with the NKR template, I can't comment on the other templates he has edited. Perhaps Laberkiste can help me out here? At any rate, would appreciate it if something could done about this. It's causing quite a lot of stability. Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:35, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I will look into the recent edits of the IP and rollback every bad one... There are so many edits and some template edits are really fragmented... --Laber□T 19:38, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • LOL. try to read more. 1) [251] It was not removal, only subtitle was added, see here apologies from user. 2) Second edit [252] because eight Italian swimmers were among the victims. 3) Here it was removed the unsourced information. Ukraine is not a "military aid" for any party. Navbox used for navigation between articles about topic, not between countries. 109.108.250.225 (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would take this to the dispute resolution noticeboard. I also advise the user of IP 109.108.250.225 to try to make one large instead of many small edits to templates (use the sandbox if possible). --Laber□T 19:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't advise me such bad instructions. No such rules. I will do so many edits as I want. 109.108.250.225 (talk) 19:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This response is not appropriate, nor is it constructive to the project and what we are trying to accomplish here. Please do not engage in battleground conduct. Thank you. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:05, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes? Show me the rules which required "to make one large instead of many small edits" (btw where was "many small edits" by me?!). How many? Where? Very strange claim! 109.108.250.225 (talk) 20:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's just common good practice to do, as it makes your edits easier to read by other editors. It's not by any means required - it appears that they are simply asking if you wouldn't mind helping them out and doing that in the future. When you respond with statements such as, "I will do so many edits as I want", it demonstrates battleground conduct and an unwillingness to collaborate or work with other editors to build an encyclopedia. It doesn't solve anything or make things easier on anybody. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It also makes things easier for you, because you don't need to switch between pages so often. It was just a suggestion. We still need some other editors to look after this case and gather more information, from my side there are no accusations against you or the user who created this thread at this time. --Laber□T 20:23, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again where "many small edits" was done by me? I don't understand. Or number of edits is limited? 50 per day totally? 100? I have edit many different pages with useful edits. Ok, I will stop, good bye finally. Thank you both for critics instead of thanking. 109.108.250.225 (talk) 20:27, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let EtienneDolet and Laberkiste continue explaining their concerns and I'll let them show you specific diff examples. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 20:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm referring to is a) the number of minor edits in a row, on a single page and b) the number of identical minor edits on multiple similar pages in a short time. This is a good example, first of six small edits in a row. On Template:Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict, you made eleven edits in four days. Many of your edits follow a pattern that makes me worried they might serve the purpose of flooding your contribution log. See this for example. --Laber□T 22:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
11 edits in 4 days = ~3 edits in 1 day! And 6 edits in 3 days?! "MANY EDITS" LOL. 109.108.250.225 (talk) 23:51, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oshwah and Laberkiste: I've told the IP over and over again that the NKR template itself shouldn't have sources and that he will find the sources at the corresponding articles. Yet, the IP continues to edit-war with no stopping in sight. It can't go on like this forever. Étienne Dolet (talk) 01:22, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
EtienneDolet - Well at this point, the user has been already given a final warning, appears to be refusing to help address the concerns outlined here and make corrective change to the way that he/she is modifying templates, and is continuing to make changes to templates in the exact same manner that is causing the concerns. I think that a block is justified if it's shown that these template changes are disruptive and/or violate policy. Wait for an admin to step in and give his/her observation here; a fresh pair of eyes is always a good thing. I think you've done all that you can to try and fix the issue, EtienneDolet. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 01:33, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see what the IP editor is supposed to have done wrong. One would like to know, for instance, why this here edit was somehow worth a final warning for disruption--not leaving an edit summary is worthy of a block? Iryna Harpy has now written them up for their edits to Timeline of the war in Donbass, but there I see decent edit summaries that indicate an argument. Now, one can argue that the IP is edit warring a bit much, but by the same token, they get reverted a bit much and frequently without any good reason. Drmies (talk) 01:46, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Drmies The IP claims that there are no sources for military aid on the template, when I have repeatedly told them ([253][254][255]) that they can easily find these sources on the corresponding articles. It's all right there on the Nagorno-Karabakh War article. I simply don't get what the IP wants to achieve. Should we cite the wlinks on the template page? Étienne Dolet (talk) 01:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think what they wanted to achieve here was also to remove the flags/countries, saying that templates like this are for navigation between articles and not countries. I mean, what's the point of linking an article about a country? (See WP:OVERLINKING.) (I don't buy their argument of "no sources", which they repeated on the talk page.) You reverted them twice there and I guess they "won" because you didn't revert again--what I'm trying to say with that is, first of all, good for you, but second, it always takes two to tango. Yes, I wish they reverted less and talked more, that's a fact--but some others in this section have reverted without explanation. Drmies (talk) 02:34, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't want to sit here guessing what they meant. I would much rather discuss it over the talk page in a more elaborate and comprehensive fashion. The issue isn't merely the removal of flags, it is the removal of relevant content which would interest readers. And there's nothing wrong with the infobox being a guideline for a navigation box. At any rate, I warned them about the edit-warring. Let's hope it stops. Étienne Dolet (talk) 03:02, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Removing other categories relevant to the DAB page without discussion (over and over) is not helpful to readers. If the IP believes it should only be categorised under timelines, they should have made an attempt to discuss it rather than edit warring. Being reverted by several editors should be enough of an alert that it needs to be discussed. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:04, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edit War at WP:NPA

There seems to be an ongoing edit war at Wikipedia:No personal attacks. See the history. I have preemptively protected the page, as edit warring over a policy page is just not tolerable, in my view. I would welcome review of my action, but more importantly i think additional previously uninvolved participants at WT:NPA might help achieve consensus and avoid further edit warring. DES (talk) 22:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

...everyone on one side of that war was already blocked by the time you protected. Semi would probably have been enough. —Cryptic 22:06, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Nobody was warring over content, just several vandal fighters grappling with an intransigent sock. It happens and it wasn't a war. Velella Velella Talk 22:13, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded. I agree that semi-protection is the appropriate level for this page and situation. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 01:46, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thirded; and I left a note for DESiegel on their talk page.--v/r - TP 03:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Another Charlene McMann sock?

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Mindimoo (talk · contribs) seems to be yet another of the Charlene McMann socks. Suspicious activity at any rate. Please see here Regards, Aloha27 talk 17:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

All set. Mike VTalk 19:30, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Copyright violations by CJojoC

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CJojoC (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) continues to copy plot summaries from other websites, despite many warnings not to do so. CJojoC was most recently warned by Diannaa on 2 April [256], and CJojoC added more copyvio almost immediately [257]. More copyvio text was added on 6 April: [258], [259]. Looking at the history of My Little Baby shows that CJojoC inserted a copyvio plot summary three times after being reverted: [260], [261], [262]. I think a block may be needed to stop the copyvio. Random86 (talk) 01:38, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also the lack of user talk edits shows a refusal to communicate with other editors. Indeffed. MER-C 03:34, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Suspect user User:Shonell Thakker of paid editing

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User:Shonell Thakker, whose talk page has a warning message from admin user:Materialscientist seems to be following the pattern of a paid editor. All their edits are related to obscure Indian film personalities. The articles have a promotional tone.

A simple google search of the user shows they have a history of employment with entertainment-related PR agencies and digital marketing firms. Request an admin to investigate whether the edits violate Wikipedia's policies around paid editing and Conflict of Interest.

14.140.50.82 (talk) 10:50, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Materialscientist has not posted anything at all to this user's talk page ever. And neither has anyone else posted anything about paid editing. Have you considered the possibility that the user may be unaware of the policy? 86.149.141.166 (talk) 10:59, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, MS hasn't; but ~82 is probably confusing this (slightly bizarre) message that Shonnel Thakker posted to their own TP- which is of an an unblock request by an IP declined by MS! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 11:48, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The proper place to file a report such as this is WP:COIN, so please move this thread there. Softlavender (talk) 11:15, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Removal of comments

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Hi, I want to remove my comments from the talk pages ( History of Islam, History of Iran, Achaemenid empire, Sasanian Empire, Parthian empire). Because my English is not very good, and I have made many mistakes in the earlier times. I am going to retire from Wikipedia once and for all. Can you allow me to do this? Please come to my talk page. Arman ad60 (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like you're removing a lot more than just your comments. Generally you aren't allowed to just delete entire threads containing other editor's responses. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 17:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it would be helpful if someone kindly archived away any of the relevant talk page threads that have not been active for some time. MPS1992 (talk) 17:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. It looks like the archival setup is broken on those three talk pages. I fixed Talk:History of Islam... I think. Someone might want to look at the other ones. It looks like the threads this editor is concerned about should be archived anyway. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 17:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well I want to remove all my comments from the talk pages. My comments are not very necessary for the articles. My maps are not going to be accepted in the articles. If I remove the comments from the talk pages will it really do any harm to the articles? I am going to retire from Wikipedia. Let me retire with all the comments. Please consider this thing a bit.Arman ad60 (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If we just removed your comments, then people's responses don't make sense. It would only make sense if you removed everything, which isn't normally allowed. If there were some compelling reason other than your belief they don't add much and desire to quit Wikipedia, then that might be something different. It is considered helpful to keep old discussions, even of ideas that are rejected, so people who come later with the same idea can know it has been proposed before, and the likely arguments they will face. As I said, our usual rule is to keep these old discussions unless there's some particular reason to remove them. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 19:14, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's stil happening. FortunaImperatrix Mundi 21:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Arman ad60: Please stop deleting discussions from talk pages. If you continue to refactor or remove other editors' talk page comments you may be blocked from editing. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 06:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • He's doing it again: See these edits. One edit did alter someone else's comment, but that wasn't what bothered me so much. What bugs me is he's changing a lot of the wording of his own comments, which were in perfectly acceptable English to begin with, in ways that I can't be sure it alters the substance of the comment... where other editors have already responded. I reverted the three edits. I'm not sure what's going on here, Arman ad60, but I strongly advise you to stop. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 11:18, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No you are not right. I am just trying to improve my English. I have changed just few sentences. And it hasn't changed the meaning of the comments. I have every right to do so. Can't I even correct my English?Arman ad60 (talk) 19:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Profanity on Talk:Kanye West

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Admins, would you please consider making this edit invisible? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kanye_West&oldid=714713748

Peaceray (talk) 16:29, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Peaceray: Someone is probably going to criticise/attack/mock you for posting this here. You can request revision deletion here or message an admin in Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to handle RevisionDelete requestsAusLondonder (talk) 16:35, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@AusLondonder:, thank you! After 6 years & 12,000+ edits, still learning ... Peaceray (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Peaceray: No problems. Glad to see it has been removed now. AusLondonder (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just another case of schoolkid vandalism. Nothing worth RevDeling or Oversighting. I see similar, perhaps worse, profanity every time I log onto Huggle as a result of my AV work. Again, nothing special. --Ches(talk)(contribs) 16:41, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree. Some of that is clearly libellous. Swear words aren't worth revdeling obviously. But libel is. AusLondonder (talk) 17:12, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, AusLondonder - I see your point. I don't think the OP should've drawn attention to this edit, however. --Ches(talk)(contribs) 18:21, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Chesnaught555 You are right about drawing attention which I tried to note in my initial reply to the OP. Many editors aren't aware of the revdel criteria and process though. AusLondonder (talk) 18:53, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
AusLondonder - fair enough - although it does say in the edit notice for ANI: "If the issue concerns a privacy-related matter, or potential libel/defamation, do not post it here" in a big red box. --Ches (talk) (contribs) 18:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Drmies - much appreciated. --Ches (talk) (contribs) 18:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Please unprotect Template:Inflation/UK/dataset

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

See my edit summary here for why - it needs 2016 adding otherwise pages using {{{{CURRENTYEAR}}}} won't work, but I cannae add it due to semi protection n stuff, innit. 86.170.7.13 (talk) 16:55, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FY2016 is not over yet, why'd 2016 have a calculated inflation rate. Also, the template is designed in such a way that invalid parameters will give you the latest value, so putting {{CURRENTYEAR}} will give us the latest value and works the way intended. --QEDK (TC) 19:14, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Inflation/UK/dataset does, but Template:Inflation produces an error if the parameter is specified and empty, invalid or not within the range from Template:Inflation/UK/startyear to the value in Template:Inflation-year, only giving the latest value if the parameter is not used. The source is measuringworth.com, which says for 2016: "There were errors processing your request: Ending year "2016" is not a year between 1209 and 2015." Peter James (talk) 21:22, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So perhaps the template should be changed so that it accepts one year later than the last? Is there a {{LASTYEAR}} variable (actually where do I go to find all of these variables and maybe add them, I really don't see where any of this is on the front end)? 86.170.7.13 (talk) 21:44, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Simply use {{Inflation-year cc}}, it will default to the last known value for that country. --QEDK (TC) 03:09, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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PopeyetheSailorMan90

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This blocked user needs to have their talk page access removed as they are using their user talk page to make threats that they will endlessly edit war and that they will "create as many accounts" as they want. Clearly just here to be disruptive. [263] 331dot (talk) 19:54, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the editor is ranting but is already indefinitely blocked. They are now asking for an unblock on their "regular account" and I'd like to know which account that is so we can see if this is block evasion. So, I'm holding back on withdrawing talk page access right now. LizRead! Talk! 21:46, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Their regular account it Bigshowandkane64 (talk·contribs). It is unlikely that they will mention this. As can be seen here Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Bigshowandkane64 and here Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Bigshowandkane64 they have created more than a few socks. Please note that this person is banned as well as indef blocked. The talk page rants are par for the course following a block. MarnetteDTalk 22:42, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A check user has confirmed the socking and TPA has been removed so this thread can be closed. Thanks again 331dot for your efforts. MarnetteD Talk 22:51, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Multiple problems with editor Cedric tsan cantonais

If you'll look at this edit you'll see two of them. The first is his constant attacks on anons. In this case, the anon made a mistake common with association football editors: assuming that being called to play for a national team equates with being considered that nationality. WP:AGF speaks directly against this. Checking CTC's edit history, you will see many polemics against anons in this manner or worse. The second is that he insists on using Icelanding and other non-English characters. The comment he wrote was, "Anoðr reason to shut down IP edits! Unleß you fīnd prōf ðat Davies actually playd for Canada at ANY level, just shut down ur computer already." It twice uses the Icelandic Thorn: ð, the Germanic long S:ß, an i and o with a macron, usually used to mark long or heavy syllables in Greco-Roman metrics: ī and ō. This makes it almost impossible for a native English reader to understand. This is just one comment. More can be seen in his edit history. I not sure what he's here to do, but it seems he's WP:NOTHERE on some level, definitely treating editing as a battleground, repeated hostile aggressiveness, little or no interest in working collaboratively, at least with anon editors, and major or irreconcilable conflict of attitude or intention, again especially toward anon editors. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:19, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have every reason to believe that Walter Gorlitz is intentionally presenting only half of the story here. If you look through my edit history, you'll see that I only attack vandals, but not others, and I attack vandals because it's the best way of dealing with vandals. Walter Gorlitz went soft on them and nothing happened, but when I stepped in, the vandals stopped, at least for a few days. Editing is a battleground if and only if the other side is composed of none but vandals. Also, if you look through my edit history, you'll find evidence that I don't just refuse to work collaboratively. It is only vandals and the likes of Walter Gorlitz, a double-standarded anti-diacritic crusader who allows only himself to use diacritics in his name but wants to purge them from all other names, that I am simply unable to work with because of irreconcilable differences.
Also, WP:AGF only applies to first-time mistakes, but not repeated vandalism like that in the example that Walter Gorlitz provided. Seriously, if one (especially an admin) can still assume good faith in repeated vandalism, s/he should re-think whether s/he's leading Wikipedia towards the right direction.
As for my use of so-called "non-English" alphabets, as accused by this anti-diacritic crusader, we all know that there's a limitation of 500 characters in the edit summary, which could be too short in some cases, but I still need to explain why I'm revoking someone's edit or why I'm making such an edit. What else should I do other than coming up with ways to shorten my spelling? Walter Gorlitz wants us to "assume good faith" even in the most blatant cases of vandalism, but why isn't he assuming good faith when all I did was using combined alphabets and diacritics to shorten my spelling? Also, for those who are able to venture back a thousand years or two, diacritics and so-called "non-standard" alphabets were everywhere in English, from Beoƿulf to Cædmon's Hymn. If Walter Gorlitz's standards were not double standard, I don't know what is. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 17:31, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's clear to see the self-deluded hubris presented by Cedric when you look at his claim that he reverted a repeat vandal. The edit made by the IP he made the personal attack on was the editor's first. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SPEAKENGLISH refers to Modern English, not ancient ancestors of the language Anglo-Saxon or Proto-Germanic or Proto-Indo-European. Excessive use of non-standard spellings (which I'm sure are not even historically accurate to Old English usage) in edit summaries is disruptive. I don't like the character-count restrictions in edit summaries, but Another reason to shut down IP edits! Unless you fīnd proof that Davies actually played for Canada at ANY level, just shut down your computer already would have easily fit. The content of the comment, that IPs should be banned from editing Wikipedia entirely because one IP made a dubious, unsourced edit (to text that was already unsourced to begin with, mind you), is absurd -- almost as absurd, in fact, as calling a user named "Walter Görlitz" an "anti-diacritic crusader". Further, the assertion that WG "wants to purge [diacritics] from all other names" is made without evidence, and wouldn't even apply to User:Cedric tsan cantonais if it was true, as "Cedric tsan cantonais" doesn't contain any diacritics. I've suffered more from the Wikipedia Diacritic Wars than likely both of you combined (perhaps even more than every other editor on the project), but you don't see me making ridiculous assertions like this. Hijiri 88 (やや) 06:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: Please feel free to look at how Walter Gorlitz launched his crusade here. As I recall, Walter Gorlitz himself does not speak Serbian at all. Yet, he allowed himself to launch an anti-diacritic crusade on a name that he might not even be able to pronounce. Venturing into unfamiliar territories comes with all kinds of uncertainties, especially when we're talking about an encyclopaedia.
Also, my attitude towards IP edits did not just come out of nowhere after one dubious edit. I've had too many pages that the poured my blood, sweat and tear into vandalised by IPs for no reason at all and I've been targeted by several editors hiding behind their IP addresses simply because of simple disagreements. As we Chinese say, "Three feet of ice can't be formed with one night's cold". And yet, Walter Gorlitz, instead of blocking those IPs for vandalism as he should have, he went after me for being to "impolite" while remaining so soft on those vandals as if he was begging them to stop. How is this doing any good to Wikipedia itself? Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 15:09, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but what on earth do you mean "crusade"!? You say his "crusade" was "launched" last May, but when I Ctrl+F-ed his contribs to article talk pages since then for "requested move" and "proposed move", none of the others appeared to have anything to do with diacritics. What's more, when notorious pro-diacritic partisan and infamous Serbian/Japanese/Vietnamese/wherever ultranationalist User:In ictu oculi takes the same side as someone in an RM, I am very skeptical about the possibility that such a user might be an an anti-diacritic warrior. While the tongue-in-cheek nature of the preceding sentence might indicate that I do not take this issue seriously, I do; I've taken far too much crap for it over the years not to. It's obvious to me that either you are paranoid beyond reason about "anti-diacritic crusaders" or that you have some other bone to pick with WG. And you still haven't provided any evidence of where he forced you to adopt your current user name to remove the diacritics that clearly aren't there. Making accusations without providing evidence -- or, worse, providing "evidence" that clearly proves the opposite -- is a form of personal attack.
You clearly have a lot to learn about how Wikipedia works: WG does not have the power to block those IPs, as he is not an admin; and even if he was, he would not be able to indefinitely block them as a point of policy. If you have a problem with vandalism (legitimate vandalism, as opposed to edits you happen to disagree with) the place to report it is here. Only users who know they have a weak argument complain retroactively about "vandalism". If you poured "blood and sweat" into an article, it's the easiest thing in the world to revert legitimate vandalism, and if the vandalism continues you can report it and get the page semi-protected. It's therefore clear that what you are talking about is not vandalism.
Also, saying that IP editors "hide behind" their IPs is absurd. By choosing to edit under a publicly visible IP, those editors are disclosing more personal information about themselves than you or me of 99% of other Wikipedians with named accounts.
Having been on the project for over three years, you should know all this already!
Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:01, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: I have every reason to believe that we're still not on the same page. First, I never accused WG of forcing me to adopt a name without diacritics; Second, all I'm doing is questioning his knowledgeability, which shall be in no way considered a personal attack — In fact, if this counts as personal attacks, I don't know what doesn't. If you wish to question my knowledge in any field, be my guest.
As for the edit summary you showed, can anyone not suspect vandalism when anyone, anon or not, removes a huge chunk of encyclopaedic content without explaining why?
Also, I do not know the history between you and User:In ictu oculi, but according to your standard, calling him/her a "notorious untranationalist" can also be considered a personal attack.
As for why «those editors are disclosing more personal information about themselves» is something I simply can't agree with, WP:NOTHUMAN had made it clear already and I do not plan to re-iterate those points here. I'm not gonna re-iterate anything about presuming good faith, either. But there's one thing that I request you to do: Look deeper into those edit histories. All those IP edits repeated changed the sportive nationality of a player without anything that can be considered as reference. WG himself reverted those edits multiple times but those IPs were simply too stubborn to reason with. The first among those edits might be in good faith, but repeatedly doing that? Maybe you, sir, can presume good faith from those, but the way I see it, those are either vandalism or unconstructive edits.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of treating WP as a battle ground, either. But if those vandalism never happened, neither of us would've been here today. Also, you're making a big mistake by motioning to block me instead of those vandals out there. During my times here in Wikipedia, I dare to say that none of my edits can be considered vandalism. Can you say the same to those vandals out there? I wouldn't think so. Also, why should I be frowned upon just because I demand that all contributors register?
Finally, I don't spend much time here in English Wikipedia simply because my pro-diacritic stance has attracted too much hostility from other editors. So why should I be frowned upon just because the majority of my edits are not on English Wikipedia? I demand an explanation. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 01:23, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You said WG "allows only himself to use diacritics in his name but wants to purge them from all other names". This appears to be a reference to his username having an umlaut; however, you did not provide any evidence of him actually trying to remove diacritics from other users' names.
I don't know how you failed to notice that my referring to IIO as a "notorious ultranationalist" was a joke when I explicitly said that I was joking in the following sentence. "ultranationalist" is what LittleBenW, Kauffner and JoshuSasori -- the real anti-diacritic warriors, against whom you never helped us, call him. If you legitimately didn't notice that I was joking, you should apologize to me for your mistake, but even still you should never assume that what I said was meant as a personal attack, even if it had looked like one.
I never said you should be frowned upon just because the majority of your edits are not on English Wikipedia. Please re-read what I wrote.
And despite your own unending string of mistakes, you persist in claiming that the legitimate mistakes of others qualify as vandalism.
If your English level is low enough that you legitimately don't realize that your language is inappropriate and you couldn't understand what I wrote, then we may have a WP:CIR issue on our hands: I generally support users with all levels of English being allowed to edit, but only if they have the humility to admit that they were wrong; you appear to be defensively striking out against anyone you with whom you fail to communicate.
Hijiri 88 (やや) 07:49, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I offer you my apology, sir. Please forgive me for not being able to tell jokes from non-jokes. Honest.
In the mean time, I never took on LittleBenW, Kauffner and JoshuSasori because I never knew they existed. Cédric wants to abolish Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 16:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I know you never knew they existed. That is why you should not be lecturing me about the importance of the "diacritic wars"; I am a veteran of them, and you only showed up as they were dying down. You made your very first edit to English Wikipedia a month after the first of them was blocked, scarcely two months before the second was blocked, and five months before the last. You don't know anything about the "diacritic wars", despite your daring to lecture me on them. Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cedric tsan cantonais: This nonsense has to stop. You are not allowed to insult people, not even anonymous editors, and although I share your love of diacritics you have to stop massacring English like you do. 250 characters is plenty for any edit summary, in fact if you come even near to a 100 you should simply write the explanation on the talk page, and write "See Talk: <heading>" as edit summary. And stop accusing people of bad faith when they ask you to follow Wikipedia's rules. You are just in this discussion and the edits that have been linked here in violation of WP:NPA, WP:AGF, WP:SPEAKENGLISH and WP:BATTLE. Stop it. --OpenFuture (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@OpenFuture: Okay, you have a good point, I understand, I will slow down and stop insulting IPs. My two cents... Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 16:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, good. Uill ju alßo stop prätending yat ye aenglíesc späłing cånväntiöns ðös nawt ehksizt? --OpenFuture (talk) 16:38, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@OpenFuture: Þou have just given me every rēson to believe ðat þou þink I'm just anoðer knok-head hwō just adds diacritics for fun, hwich I have no choiç but to take offenç. I do not just switch up letters or add random diacritics for fun. All my use of diacritics are strictly linguistically and etymologically rōted while WG has publicly admitted that the umlaut in his name is merely a "rock band umlaut". If þou woud like to talk about using plain spelling more often, we coud talk, but I nēd you to wiðdraw or at least rephrase ðis. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 18:26, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So where mine, and it doesn't change anything I said. I'm not going to withdraw or rephrase it. If you insist on not using English standard spellings and hence make your communication incomprehensible to people that doesn't reach up to our knowledge of these characters, some sort of administrative action will be necessary. --OpenFuture (talk) 21:05, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just because you want me to switch back to plain English spelling does not mean you can make poor-faith accusations against me like that. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 23:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just as a note: I haven't made any accusations I'm a aware of, and definitely not any poor-faith accusations. --OpenFuture (talk) 14:11, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe I ever made such a statement. The closest I came to discussing the umlaut in my family name with you was when I stated that it's not my legal (de jure) name in Canada. That does not mean that it's not my family name. When my father arrived in Canada, having spelled his name with the umlaut until that time, he was informed that there is no such letter in English and his family name legally became Gorlitz. All of his, and also my, legal documents and public records are spelled that way. However, my signature has the umlaut, because historically, that is my name, and I have done so since I was in university. My cheques and several other non-legal documents use the umlaut. It's certainly not because of my association with rock music or metal though. If I were to live in Germany, or any country where the character is recognized, I would use it. The point I was making when I explained that earlier is that diacritics are not acceptable in modern English, although they have started to to creep in, either as loans from where we get our loan words (such as in naive/naïve, cafe/café) or as hypercorrections (such as maté tea). The average English speaker would be able to easily transliterate the vowel with an umlaut, or diacritic in relation to the English alphabet, whereas they would not be able to do that with a thorn or other character not found in the English alphabet or unfamiliar to the English alphabet. So, for the official record, I am not against diacritics. What I am opposed to is using characters that are not a part of the modern English alphabet or cannot be easily understood by a reader of modern English. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:31, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indefinitely block Cedric tsan cantonais

I'm usually not one for extreme solutions, but someone who has been on the project for over three years should not be demanding that non-admins block IPs, accusing those IPs of "vandalism" for apparently good-faith edits, accusing those non-admins of imaginary "crusades", or demanding that all IPs be banned from editing English Wikipedia, period, because of something that apparently happened on a different language Wikipedia. Looking at CTC's contributions, it's obvious that the "too many pages that the poured my blood, sweat and tear into" were not on English Wikipedia -- this user has made 96 article edits, only four of which were over 1,000 bytes. I don't know what happened to his edits on Cantonese Wikipedia, but it surely can't justify the likes of this edit summary. While it's possible this user has something to contribute (the clean block log on his main project is ... interesting), it's obvious that he is more of a burden on the project than a boon for the time being; indefinite blocks are not permanent blocks.

  • Support as nom. Also pinging Walter Görlitz, since it would be pretty dickish of me to propose a solution, several days late, to a problem he reported without informing him. Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:01, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Slow down I was pinged but I'm not aware of any of this and I don't immediately see a need to block anyone. I would defer to @OpenFuture:'s view of things. @Cedric tsan cantonais: it would be good if you could reply to Open Future, and say "Okay, you have a good point, I understand, I will slow down and stop insulting IPs. My two cents.... In ictu oculi (talk) 11:43, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@In ictu oculi: Insulting IP editors is only one of several issues here.
There's also
  1. use of gibberish spellings in edit summaries based on a demonstrably-bogus character-count rationale,
  2. accusing other users of NPA violations based on his own misreading of their comments,
  3. doubling down and refusing to apologize for (2) when it was pointed out to him,
  4. violating AGF by accusing another user of engaging in a "crusade" based on one RM from almost a year ago (by the same logic you would be engaged in the same "anti-diacritic crusade", an absurdity I was quick to point out),
  5. repeatedly calling edits with which he happens to disagree "vandalism" because they happen to have been made by IP editors,
  6. requesting that the admin corps on English Wikipedia engage in some kind of massive anon witchhunt based on something that apparently happened on Cantonese or French Wikipedia,
  7. repeatedly referring to this incident on Cantonese or French Wikipedia as justification for his actions, apparently without actually explaining what happened (FTR, I find it highly unlikely that Cedric repeatedly suffered his hard work being "ruined" by "vandalism" -- vandalism is super-easy to revert; more likely, an IP editor repeatedly made well-sourced and reasonable edits that Cedric didn't like; this is why I want an explanation if Cedric is going to keep using dubious anecdotes about foreign-language wikis to justify his actions here),
  8. requesting that WG block a certain IP editor for making such a "vandalism" edit, despite WG not being an admin,
  9. seemingly accusing WG of trying to change other users' names against their wishes,
  10. repeated use of overly aggressive edit summaries, with swear-words and exclamation marks galore,
  11. defending (10) with "I was reverting obvious vandalism -- how can you not see that!?" -- clearly either unable or unwilling to get the point,
  12. something else that I technically promised not to bring up here unless he persisted, and he hasn't thusfar, but the night is young,
  13. refusing to provide an explanation for any of the above when asked,
  14. engaging in historically offensive hyperbole (look at his sig); whether or not you disagree with such-and-such Wikipedia content guideline (Cedric apparently hasn't looked at the content guideline he complains about with every post he signs in a while, as it does not say what he claims it says) it is not as bad as slavery,
  15. pedantically nitpicking words like "seemingly" and "apparently" in others' criticisms of him in order to dismiss everything they say, and
  16. despite clear reasons being given for criticizing his behaviour apart from his attitude toward IP editors, insisting that this proposal to block him is based on a desire to "censor" his views on IP editors.
Most of these look like rookie mistakes, and if a legitimate rookie had made them I would say mentor, not block, but in this case the user has been editing on and off for over three years. Some of them are things that you and I have also committed quite late in our editing careers. But the combination of all of them at this time makes me say a block (without prejudice against unblock, assuming a contrite unblock request, which indicates a full understanding of why the block was made and a sincere desire to do better, is made) is the best option for the community.
And in case it is not clear, my stance on diacritics has not changed in the past three years. I feel the need to clarify this given that little misunderstanding we had on your talk page a short while back. Apparently something in my tone of voice now convinces people that I have turned coat and joined the "anti-diacritic crusade". The reason for the scare-quotes is that, I'm sorry, I am not seeing it as any kind of grand unified crusade since LittleBenW and Kauffner got themselves blocked back in 2013, and Fyunck(click) turned out not to be a massive hypocrite and actually went with the consistent romanization and reliable sources on the Empress Jingū RM around the same time. To quote Basil Exposition, "Austin ... we won."
Hijiri 88 (やや) 13:17, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: Sir, since your accusations full of terms like "seemingly" or "unlikely", I find it nearly impossible to swallow.
Also, if you seek to block me largely because of my stance towards IPs, this is called censorship. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 16:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I said "seemingly" in line with AGF. If I proclaimed definitively that you did refuse to explain yourself when I requested it, when there was still the possibility that you had just misunderstood my request, it would have been in violation. Fortunately for me, your above response indicates that I was 100% correct, and would have been forgiven for leaving out the "seemingly"s. Please, please, please learn to communicate withnother editors. I said the exact opposite of "seek to block you largely because of my stance towards IPs" -- I posted a laundry list of twelve other offenses you had committed, largely against me, that, when combined, appear to me to warrant an indefinite block with possibility of immediate appeal.
And in my experience, accusing other users of "censorship" has never worked out well for the accuser.
Hijiri 88 (やや) 17:10, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Let me be clear: I had never committed any offence against you and I do not intend to, so unless there're miscommunications between us, please stop adding more accusations to the list. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 18:26, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The offenses you commit are against Wikipedia. This is not a personal issue. It's not like you can go around and insult one person and expect that everyone else is OK with that, because they aren't the people being insulted. --OpenFuture (talk) 21:05, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Cedric tsan cantonais: Yes, you did. I posted one neutral comment above and was met with a flurry of attacks. Of the above, 2, 3, 7, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 16 were all committed against me within the last 36 hours as punishment for my crime of analyzing the problem as I see it and commenting accordingly. At this point I have no doubt that if you get blocked you will blame me for it and post on your talk page (or perhaps on Wikipediocracy or some such) about how "Hijiri88 blocked you for your pro-diacritic stance", because you refuse to do the damn research and realize that I have a much longer history than you do of defending diacritics on this site. (Also, like WG, I am not an admin; I have no power to block you, so I would appreciate you not claiming that "blocking you" is what I am doing.) Hijiri 88 (やや) 01:14, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Hijiri88: It is becoming clear to me that we have little to no common ground on the definition of "personal attacks". All I did above was to explain my action and to give you contexts and those are in no way personal attacks, especially not against you. Therefore, I simply can't understand why you're still interpreting them as offences against you personally. Just because I'm the defendant here does not mean you can just keeping adding accusations to the list. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 01:28, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is becoming clear to me that we have little to no common ground on the definition of "personal attacks". What on earth are you talking about? Where in my above reply to you (or even in my long reply to In ictu oculi) did I even mention personal attacks? All I did above was to explain my action and to give you contexts and those are in no way personal attacks, especially not against you. There was nothing in your above comment that explained anything about your actions, although you did provide a new rationale for blocking you (see 15). In fact, you have been roundly ignoring every single thing I say. Please address at least one of the 15 points I raised against you in my long comment above. I'll make it easier for you -- I'll put them on different lines to make them more visible for you. Hijiri 88 (やや) 01:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The interactions so far gives absolutely no indication that Cedric tsan cantonais understands the problems with his behavior, nor has any intention to stop it. --OpenFuture (talk) 21:31, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - this seems like a drama over next to nothing, not indefinite block material. Cedric tsan cantonais just needs to be told that Wikipedia is a humorless place, so should stop with the funny diacritics, and if you can't fit a decent edit summary into the place provided then use the talk page, and that it is pointless to insult anons since they either exist in that form so that they can't be insulted or engaged with in any meaningful way, or they exist in that form because they are in a country where far worse things that insults could await identifiable editors. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, he is not joking. Those characters are not "funny". He is dead serious in his invention of a new, consistent (but to normal people incomprehensible) spelling for English. --OpenFuture (talk) 07:12, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Voluntary Disappearance

Seeing that there're too much irreconcilable idealogical difference between mainstream English Wikipedia contributors and I, I hereby declare that I'll disappear from English Wikipedia in the foreseeable future. If you want me to stop insulting others, I can do that. However, I reject User:OpenFuture's accusation that my use of diacritics is based on bad faith. I also argue that his refusal to distinguish between linguistically-based use of diacritics and "rock band diacritics" has demonstrated his prejudice against diacritics, which is in contradiction of his claim that he "share[s]" my "love of diacritics". That being said, I also withdraw any and all accusations I've ever made against WG and offer a peace treaty with an apology. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 23:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They are not ideological differences. You clearly don't understand my ideology, as you have refused to read my comments. You above very clearly indicate that you have not read User:OpenFuture's comments with any care whatsoever -- where did he/she imply that your "use of diacritics" was "based on bad faith"? This indicates that you clearly have not gotten it, and you will continue your pattern of disruptive behaviour unless you are blocked. Please note that I am not trying to "condemn" or "kill" you -- I want you to read our concerns about your behaviour, to understand our concerns, to apologize and promise never to repeat this behaviour again, and then you will be unblocked and be allowed return to constructive editing. Hijiri 88 (やや) 01:45, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It occurs to me that you're not reading my responses, either. I've already stated that I want to treat linguistic use of diacritics and rock band diacritics (which I don't use) as two things and I've already stated that reduction of my diacritic use to open for discussion, but User:OpenFuture refused to treat them separately. If you look at his message above, the diacritics in his message clearly does not follow any etymological pattern. This implies that he does not understand why and how I use diacritic to abbreviate my edit summaries and that he's treating all use of diacritics indistinguishably.
OTOH, I've already promised that I will stop insulting others and yet you pretend you didn't see those word.
Also, when you talk about offences against you, the first thing I came up with was personal attack.
To respond to some of your accusations:
1. Those are anything but gibberish. Calling them "gibberish" altogether is a give-away that we do not share the same view on diacritics;
4. Yes, that was my fault, and I apologise.
5. Those edits had been previously reverted by other users before I got involved.
7. Just because vandalism is easy to revert does not mean that it doesn't hurt.
9. Again, my fault, and I apologise.
10. Again, my fault, and I apologise.
14. It is disrespecting names that are not of English origins. Therefore, it's bad.
15. You're making the same mistake, good sir.
16. Are you seriously intentionally misinterpreting me or what? When did explicitly say I insisted that this was based on "censorship"? You need to stop making wrongful accusations up.
P.S. I now have reason to believe that we're simply speaking two different languages. And you, good sir, are also making accusations against me based on your incorrect interpretation of my intended-to-be-completely-peaceful words. I never intended to attack or offend you and if I did make you feed offended, I apologise. But I don't think this debate can remain healthy without us understanding what each other intend to say first. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 03:40, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
1. I support use of diacritics when it is accurate and supported by reliable sources. You make up imaginary gibberish spellings of English words, that show your ignorance of many of the points about which you dare to lecture me, such as the correct usage of macrons (they don't turn the letter "o" into /uː/; they almost always mark long vowels, the one exception I can think of being Chinese pinyin, where they indicate a flat tone) and the correct name of the eth (which you inaccurately called a "thorn"). I don't know why you do this -- you said it was because of character count restrictions, which was a blatant lie; it seems to be an attempt to make disruptive edits in order to make a POINT.
4. I'm glad you apologized. Now please apologize for the rest.
5. No, I was referring to the Canadian nationality edit. It was not vandalism, and no one but you called it vandalism. Whether other editors supported your reverting it, or reverted the same themselves, is irrelevant. You clearly have not read and understood what qualifies as WP:VANDALISM.
7. So you are still refusing to give diffs, then? Vandalism is easy to revert, and if you are so thin-skinned that you don't like anons being allowed edit "your" articles from time to time, then you should not be working on a collaborative project like Wikipedia.
9. Good, but see 4. above. Also, you should apologize to me for earlier claiming that 9. never happened.
10. Good, but see 4. above.
14. Your signature links to a content guideline that you apparently don't like, and likens it to the North American slave trade. This is ridiculously offensive. However, I apologize for misreading the guideline, which does say that diacritics should be avoided in certain circumstances.
15. You ignored every single thing I said in order to nitpick one word that I said in order to be conservative in my criticism of you. Your outrageous behaviour would have easily justified me not using the word "seemingly", as I was 100% on the money with everything I speculated. And, ironically, in your non-response to this problem you are providing further proof that you are intent on dodging the issue. Also, please don't call me "good sir"; it is belittling.
16. "Also, if you seek to block me largely because of my stance towards IPs, this is called censorship."[264] You posted this 11 hours before somehow completely forgetting about it and claiming only a few lines down that it never happened? Did you really think you could get away with this?
Again, I must say that I have no problem with users with low levels of English being allowed contribute to the project, but they must be humble and apologetic; they should not be aggressively defending everything they say and striking out at other users for criticizing them over their communication problems. If we are having communication problems, it is most certainly not my fault; the only time I used anything other than direct, straightforward English to express myself was when I jokingly/sarcastically referred to In ictu oculi as an infamous Serbian/Vietnamese/Japanese ultranationalist and didn't explicitly state that I was joking until the following sentence (although the oxymoron of a "Serbian/Vietnamese/Japanese ultranationalist" should have tipped you off even there).
Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:29, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All the spellings I used *were* "correct" in the same sense that your are. (I have not, however, bothered to make sure it was consistently applied). The point was to show how incomprehensible it gets to somebody who does not know the alternative etymology and pronunciations of the characters in question, toungue-in-cheek. You calling it "rock band diacritics" shows with ironic clarity that you indeed didn't understand all of it, as you think I just added diacritics willy nilly. I didn't. Now, if YOU didn't get it, how do you expect the average person that knows nothing about these things to understand it? That's the point. You think you are being clever, and you have some sort of agenda, but all you actually do is make it harder to understand what you write. --OpenFuture (talk) 04:42, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@OpenFuture: I have to personal agenda. And seeing that I had mistakenly called your use of diacritics "willy nilly", I offer you an olive branch and an apology. I will disappear from English Wikipedia soon after this discussion is closed, but if you wish to kindly let us drink to the love of diacritics, my doors at the Wikimedia Incubator are open to you. Cédric wants to abolish "Convention №. 2" like abolishing slavery. 04:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's good that you now understand that you misunderstood my diacritics. I'm saddened to see that you don't realize that others will similarly misunderstand yours. You are of course free to leave, but it's such a silly thing to do. The Wikipedia policies are in place for a reason, you could just follow them instead. But that's your choice, of course. --OpenFuture (talk) 05:02, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A block for bad behaviour and missing the point

  • Support Cedric tsan cantonais's edits are usually factual. What I find problematic is his attacks on anons and his use non-English characters. He has agreed to avoid both, but a block, even a short one, would record this decision in the block log. A permanent block or voluntary departure would be a disservice to the community. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:31, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support 24-hour block I would say longer, given the massive IDHT mess throughout the above discussion (how many times do I have to explain things to him...), but he has a clear block log at the moment, so technically this is a first offense. I would also disagree with WG's rationale that the worst are "his attacks on anons and his use non-English characters"; several named users, including both WG and myself, have probably had it worse than anons at this point. Hijiri 88 (やや) 02:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - It feel punitive, but the argument that it gets logged is reasonable. --OpenFuture (talk) 09:33, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A block log is not a rap sheet. Nonetheless this editor is subject to a block at any time they resume this behaviour, WP:POINT applies. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC).
    [reply]

82.30.110.20 impersonating another editor

82.30.110.20 made this edit to my Talk page, using the signature of Diannaa. The same editor overwrote my comment on Diannaa's Talk page. Edits speak for themselves. 32.218.45.217 (talk) 21:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

With the events of today, if someone like you can behave as you have done without consequence, I am seriously beyond caring. 82.30.110.20 (talk) 21:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC) 32.218.45.217[reply]
Looking at 82.30.110.20's comment history, he's pissed that you reverted one of his edits and is throwing a tantrum.142.105.159.60 (talk) 16:49, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]