위키백과:뉴스/후보/2020년 7월

Wikipedia:

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이 페이지에 대한 모든 코멘트는 위키백과 토크로 향해야 한다.뉴스에서.고마워요.

7월 31일

전폐 제한을 위반하지 않는 경우에만 연결됨:포털:시사/2020년 7월 31일


(우편) RD: 빌 잉글리쉬 (컴퓨터 엔지니어)

기사: 빌 영어(컴퓨터 엔지니어) (토크 · 역사 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명(우편)
뉴스 출처: 뉴욕 타임스
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨
위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

명명자의 의견:현대 컴퓨터 마우스의 주요 기여자 중 한 명.26일 사망했지만 처음 신고가 들어온 날(확보하기 위해 이중 확인)로 보인다.글의 상태가 양호하다.마셈 (t) 02:34, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

(포스팅) RD: 스티븐 타토

기사:스티븐 타토(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명(우편)
뉴스 출처:아프리카 축구 연맹; BBC 스포츠
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨
위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

노미네이터의 말: 유명한 아르헨티나를 꺾고 1990년 월드컵 4강전에 오른 쪽의 주장 카메룬의 축구 선수.추가해야 할 몇 가지 참고 자료와 좀 더 자세히 설명하겠지만 대체로 괜찮다.나는 곧 그것에 도달할 것이다.아마쿠루 (토크) 12:18, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 지원 좋은 작업 개선, 지금 JW 1961 Talk 16:00, 2020년 8월 2일(UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 – 선두에 몇 문장을 추가했는데, 그것 말고는 기준에 맞는 것 같다.블룸6132 (대화) 02:56, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이번 건에 대해 해결해야 할 중요한 사항이 있으십니까?그것은 오랫동안 준비되었지만 아직 추가되지 않았다.건배 — 아마쿠루 (토크) 15:14, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그들이 뭘 하는지 알 수 있도록 도와줘 만약 당신이 일을 제대로 한다면...이제 반나절이나 가니까 좋았어, IAR I'd going to go after now, I'd I understand the entry.누가 그런 일로 널 고소할 거야?'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 15:36, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 게시된 것으로 충분하다.2018년에 코치직을 못 얻었나봐?무보슈구 (대화) 15:42, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]

(포스팅) RD: Eusebio Leal

기사:에우세비오 랄(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명(우편)
뉴스 출처:AP통신; 로이터통신
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨
위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

블룸6132 (대화) 01:27, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

  • RD JW 1961 Talk 09:36, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 논평 - 그가 하바나에 관한 책을 쓰고 TV 프로그램을 제시했다는 문장이 선두에 있지만, 내가 볼 수 있는 한 다른 곳에서는 언급되지 않고 있다.그 일이 해결된 후에, 가기에 좋다.아마쿠루 (토크) 14:03, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @아마쿠루:"기타 포지션"에 제시된 인용 정보 추가.책에 관한 부분은 내가 찾을 수 없어서 없앴어.Bloom6132 (대화) 14:37, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • RD게시됨.좋아, 업데이트해줘서 고마워, 블룸6132.나는 실제로 구글 북스 페이지에 링크된 그의 책 몇 권에 대한 언급들을 추가했는데, 그것은 그들의 존재를 확인하기에 충분해 보인다!건배 — 아마쿠루 (토크) 16:14, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

(Stale) RD: 게리 크노프

기사: 게리 노프 (토크 · 역사 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명(우편)
뉴스 출처: [1]
크레딧:

위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

팜트리5551 (대화) 04:50, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 지원 그것의 산문은 짧지만 꽤 잘 언급되어 있다. 위원회 멤버쉽에 있는 cnJW 1961 Talk 10:18, 2020년 8월 1일(UTC)에 아는 누군가에 의해 쉽게 고쳐져야 한다[응답].
  • 와 같은 지원.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:01, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 약한 반대 산문 형식의 재개; 불충분한 취재 깊이.그가 정치인으로서 그의 역할에 참여했던 위원회들을 나열하지만, 그가 그 위원회들의 일부로서 무엇을 했는지는 말하지 않는다.스펜서T•C 00:37, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 RD에 적합해 보인다. – 앰마패드(대화) 04:59, 2020년 8월 2일(UTC)[응답]
  • 스펜서 한 명당 반대한다.그가 한 일에 대해 좀 더 자세히 알아야겠어, 그건 현재 직책 목록일 뿐이야.아마쿠루 (토크) 14:04, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 퀴퀴한 개인 정보가 너무 적어서 BLP를 쉽게 호출할 수 없으며, 전문적 세부 정보가 너무 적어서 공신력을 확립할 수 없다.그의 사망 전 단 5번의 수정만으로 BLP1E.130.233.3.21 (대화) 10:04, 2020년 8월 5일 (UTC)[응답]이 될 수 없다.

(제거) 지속적인 제거: 2020년 중국 홍수

기사: 2020년 중국 홍수(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
진행중인품목제거(우편)

명명자의 의견:그 결과의 마지막 업데이트는 7월 27일 일부 상점이 침수되는 것에 대한 1개 정기선으로 이루어졌다.다른 "최근" 업데이트는 6월과 7월 초로 거슬러 올라간다.다른 모든 것은 콘텐츠 수정과 수정이다.그 기사는 결코 그렇게 대단한 것이 아니었고, 메인 페이지에 실리는 것은 그것이 나아지는 데 도움이 되지 않았다.LaserLegs (대화) 22:04, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 지원 이것은 7월 중순에 전세계에서 취재를 하고 있었고, ITN은 당연했지만, 더 이상 그렇게 많지 않았다.TBH는 일본이나 인도와 같은 아시아 전역에서 일어나는 평상시보다 더 무거운 홍수 중 하나로, 비슷한 피해나 사상자가 있는 것으로 보인다.아시아 전역에 걸쳐 2020년 홍수에 대한 거창한 기사를 쓰고 싶은 사람이 아니라면 더 이상 그렇게 특별해 보이지 않는다.한편, 심지어 사망자/손해도 아시아에서 흔히 볼 수 있는 것에는 나쁘지만 확실히 치명적이지는 않다.264:3D09:682:B00:1987:35DF:CE31:2228 (대화) 22:22, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • '홍수 반대'가 여전히 많이 일어나고 있다[2] 그 이유는 삼협댐의 안정성에 대한 고려가 시간문제라는 점 때문이며, 그것은 말 그대로 홍수가 난 모든 지역이 그 뒤의 예비군으로 빠져나갈 때 기다리는 게임일 뿐이다.아직 경계심을 늦추지 않고 있지만, 최대한 많은 일을 해냈기 때문에 사람들에게 조치를 취하라고 할 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다. --마샘 (t) 22:26, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
    • 찾을 없을같으니 새로운 관련 정보로 기사 편집을 가리켜 주시겠습니까? LaserLegs (토크) 22:45, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
      • 내가 지적했듯이, 그것은 실패의 징후를 보이고 있지만 아직 실패하지 않은 수십 년 된 댐 뒤에서 위험한 물이 솟아오르는 것을 지켜보는 대기 게임이다.그것은 마치 페인트 건조 상황을 어느 정도 보고하는 것과 같으며, 1) 받은 물이 되거나 2) 댐이 깨지기 전까지는 정말로 보고할 것이 없다.뉴스에 분명히 나오지만 즉시 업데이트될 수 있는 것은 많지 않다.이런 경우에는 상식이 필요하다. -마샘 (t) 02:10, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 홍수가 여전히 일어나고 있는 동안, 그것은 더 이상 뉴스에 보도되지 않고 기사도 업데이트되지 않는다.킹시프 (대화) 22:57, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지하다.현시점에서는 진행하기에 적합하지 않다. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 00:01, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원은 어디에서도 1면 뉴스가 되지 않는 것 같다.누군가가 3G 댐이 터질 거라고 말할 때마다 내가 니켈을 가지고 있다면...그렇게 되면 '옹오잉'이 아니라 ITN이 될 것이다.앨버타온트 (대화) 00:32, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그것이 다시 뉴스에 나올지 여부를 기다리며 서성거려도 소용없다.그것은 확실히 지금 당장은 아니다.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 07:31, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 제거됨.이 시점에서 이를 철회해야 한다는 확고한 공감대가 형성돼 있는 것으로 보인다.앞으로 더 발전하는 것이 있으면 재생할 수 있다.아마쿠루 (토크) 12:24, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

(Stale) 영국 아카데미 TV상

기사: 2020년 영국 아카데미 텔레비전 어워드(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
흐림: 2020년 영국 아카데미 텔레비전 시상식에서F****ing World의 끝최우수 드라마상을 수상하고Stath Lets FlatsCOVID-19 대유행의 시작 이후 첫 번째 주요 연예 시상식에서 최우수 코미디상을 수상한다.(우편)
대체 블럽: 2020년 영국 아카데미 텔레비전 시상식에서F****ing World의 끝최우수 드라마상을 수상하고Stath Lets Flats베스트 코미디상을 수상하다.
대체 블러브 II: 2020년 영국 아카데미 텔레비전 시상식에서F****ing World의 끝,Stath Lets Flats그리고체르노빌각자가 두 개의 상을 수상하다.
대체 블러브 III: 2020년 영국 아카데미 텔레비전공예상 시상식에서체르노빌최우수 미니 시리즈를 포함한 9개의 기록적인 상을 수상한다.
대체 블럽 IV: 체르노빌2020년 영국 아카데미 TV에서 사상 최고인 9개의 상을 수상하며 COVID-19 이후 처음이다.
뉴스 출처: 마감
크레딧:

명명자의 의견:산문 업데이트 포함.놀랍게도 ITN/R은 아니지만, 쉽게 그래야 한다.킹시프 (대화) 20:58, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 반대- 많은 나라들이 텔레비전 상을 받고 있는데, 나는 영국 상이 정말로 두 번째로 중요한 것이라고 확신하지 못한다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:10, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그것은 에미 가족이지만 런던에 있는, 동등한 중요성의, 심지어 '두 번째'도 아니다.영국 아카데미 영화상(ITN/R에서 유일하게 Oscar가 아닌 영화상)에 대한 당신의 의견을 듣고 싶소...보다시피, 주요 출처는 BBC가 취재하기 전에 취재를 해왔던 LA에 본사를 둔 '데드라인 헐리우드'이다.킹시프 (대화) 21:14, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 좋든 나쁘든, 에미족은 미국의 대중문화적 우위 때문에 더 중요하다.영화는 텔레비전보다 문화적인 중요성이 더 지속되는 것 같아 이론적으로 매년 여러 편의 영화상을 올리는 데 문제가 적다고 생각한다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:20, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그런 우위에 맞서고 싶지 않으세요?ITN이 여기서 옹호하는 식으로 그냥 고개만 숙였다면 상자는 미국 물건으로 채워지고 다른 것은 아무것도 없을 것이다.(그리고 내가 언급했듯이, 로스엔젤레스 산업 뉴스가 BBC에 앞서 취재했기 때문에 확실히 미국 문화 이익에 부합한다) 킹시프 (토크) 21:31, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 영리한 주장이지만, 미국의 대중 매체 우위는 사실 전혀 편견이 아니라 단지 현실이기 때문에 내가 우려하는 그런 종류의 편견이 아니다.예를 들어, 동남 아시아 사람들은 서구의 테러 희생자들의 삶에 대해 불균형적으로 걱정한다고 생각하지 않는 반면, 미국의 대중 매체는 진정으로 불균형한 국제적 관심을 가지고 있기 때문에, 서구의 미디어들이 테러 공격에 대한 편향과는 상당히 다르다.일반적으로 텔레비전은 영화보다 장기간의 캐쉬가 적기 때문에, 나도 ITN/R에서 에미스를 제거하는 것에 반대하지는 않을 것이다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:55, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그 (그리고 추가)를 몇 번 읽다 보면, 당신이 반대하는 주장은 단지 미국 TV만큼 중요한 TV가 없다고 생각하는 것이 아니라, 미국 TV를 제외하고는 어떤 TV도 중요하지 않다고 생각하는 것 같다.영국이 TV를 발명했다는 것만 알려주고 물러설 수 있는 곳이야.킹시프 (대화) 22:06, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 나는 전자의 진술에 동의하지만 후자는 동의하지 않는다.내 답장을 어떻게 해석했는지 모르겠네, 확실하지 않다면 미안해.Bzweebl (대화기여) 22:14, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아니, 걱정 마. 그리고 이제 네 주장을 이해하게 되어서 기뻐.적어도 논쟁의 여지가 있는 관점.킹시프 (대화) 22:56, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 서포트 이것은 주요 시상식이고 (ITN/R도 아닌 것이 놀랍다) 그리고 시상식에 대한 산문이 꽤 많이 있다.P-K3 (대화) 21:46, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 기사는 수상 쇼의 최소치로, ITN에서는 예능이 슬프게도 대표적이다. --LaserLegs (대화) 21:50, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 원칙적으로는 약한 지지지만, 몇 가지에 대해서는: (1) 왜 선정되는 것들 중 상들이 ("Stath Lents Flats"는 빌어먹을 용감한데 체르노빌은 없다.) 그리고 (b) 거기에는 산문이 별로 없다....'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 22:28, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • (1) 에미 ITN/R 지침에 따라 최고의 드라마 및 (스크립트) 코미디를 게시한다.체르노빌이 최우수 미니시리즈상을 수상했는데, 이 역시 블러브에서 제외된 에미상 부문이다.세 명이 각각 2개의 상을 받았다고 말하는 것으로 바뀔 수 있을까?(b)는 마음놓고 확장해, 아직 작업중이야!킹시프 (대화) 22:42, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그 범주들이 어떻게 체리피크되었는지 모르겠는데, 어디선가 관련 토론이 있어?고맙지만, 지금은 밀린 일이 많아. 하지만 네가 확장해서 다행이야.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 07:32, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • @The Rambling Man: 가장 초기의 토론은 토론 없이 추가되고 나서 당신이 시작한 토론이다.흥미롭게도, BAFTA를 추가하기 위한 광범위한 지원도 있다.킹시프 (대화) 17:53, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 서포트 ITN이 항상 "재난과 같은 것"에 관한 것은 아니며, 예술과 엔터테인먼트를 다시 시작하는 것을 보여주기에 좋은 것은 아니다.앨버타온트 (대화) 05:51, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 이것은 자축, 자기 홍보라는 클립 쇼에 지나지 않는 것 같다.많은 쇼와 스타들이 상을 받았으며 내가 본 화제거리에서 보면 글렌다 잭슨과 플레백이 단연 돋보인다.누가 선정을 했는지 기사를 봤는데 안 나와.그것은 또한 최근의 사망자들의 긴 목록을 가지고 있다.그 출품작들은 비지원적이며 기사가 없는 사람을 포함한다.그 부분의 출처와 가장 가까운 것은 유튜브 영상인 것 같다.Andrew🐉 (대화) 09:54, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 네가 뭘 보고 있는지는 모르겠지만 나는 모든 것에 대한 정보를 추가했어.편집: 인 암기는 수상 쇼 기사의 표준 섹션이다. 시상식에서 보여지는 몽타주로서 플롯 아래에 있지만, 소싱을 위한 몽타주 클립도 추가했다.이건 주요 시상식이니까 너도 그 말에서 내릴 수 있어.누가 선정을 했는가?영국 영화 텔레비전 예술 아카데미: 문자 그대로 그 이름에 있다.미안해, 앤드류. 하지만 이건 아주 알지도 못하는 논평이야.킹시프 (대화) 17:17, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 그럼 앤드류보다 오스카상이 더 낫다는 건가?누가 선택했는지 아시죠? 단서는 BAFTA 입니다.개인의 이름을 알고 싶으면 가서 찾아봐.많은 RD들의 목록은 그러한 모든 의식의 전형이다: 오스카상들은 수십 년 동안 그것을 해오고 있다.이것은 경계선 구름 뻐꾸기 땅거미 입니다.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 22:44, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 솔직히, 얼마나 이상한지.이 기사는 앤드류가 주로 제기하는 다른 ITN 기사들과 마찬가지로 많은 관심을 끌고 있지만, 지금은 앤드류가 우리 독자들이 더 배우고 싶어할 만한 주목할 만한 시상식에 대한 접근에 반대하고 있다.WP로서는 이만저만이 아니다.TOP25데일리 메일...'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 22:41, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 이 기사의 일일 독자 수는 6K 미만으로 정점을 찍었는데, 이는 뉴스에 실려야 할 주제로는 매우 작다.상위 25위 근처에도 못 가Andrew( (대화) 13:13, 2020년 8월 7일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 원론적으로 지지하라, 내가 기사를 보지 않았기 때문에 품질에 대한 언급은 없다.John M Wolfson (대화기여) 11:25, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]

*약한 반대 ITNR의 명칭이 되어야 하는 것 아닌가?나는 ITN이 아카데미상이나 오스카상처럼 모든 영화 시상식마다 그것이 역사적인 것이 아니라면, 이 경우에 그렇지 않은 곳이 되어서는 안 된다고 생각한다.다른, 더 설득력 있는 주장을 고려한다면 내 입장이 바뀔 것이다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:11, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[답글]

킹시프 당 지원.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:28, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 안녕, 댄, 너의 코멘트에 대해 몇 가지 정정할게. 나는 최선을 다해서 쓰는거야: WP:ITN/R 명명자들은 그 페이지에 나열된 것들을 위한 것이다(BAFTA TV 어워드가 목록에 있어야 하지만, 그것에 대한 커뮤니티 토론은 없었다).ITN은 모든 영화상(그리고 TV, 이것은 TV)을 나열하려고 하지 않고, 걱정하지 마십시오(예: GLAAD 미디어 어워드는 같은 날에 열렸으며, 명목상 없이), 전형적으로 이것은 '마조르'들 중 하나일 뿐이다.아카데미 시상식과 오스카상도 마찬가지다.그리고, 이 의식은 '전염병 중 첫 번째'와 'TV 산업의 재개'를 꼽는다면 역사적인 것이다.킹시프 (대화) 18:25, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • Andrew D 당 반대한다.나는 이것이 포스팅을 정당화할 만큼 충분히 중요한 사건은 아니라고 생각한다.그리고 사람들이 정말 그렇다고 생각한다면, ITN/R에 그것을 추가하는 것에 대해 적절한 논의를 해보아라. (그리고 나는 ITN/R이 포스팅에 필요한 조건은 아니지만, 단지 개인적으로 이것이 BAFTA, 오스카상, 에미상 등과는 달리 엘리트 시상식들 중에서 꽤 있다고 생각하지는 않는다고 언급할 뿐이다.)그리고 그때였다면 아마 지금쯤 추가했을 것이다.) — 아마쿠루 (토크) 16:18, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
아마쿠루 대부분의 ITNR 토론에서는 우선 지명된 주제가 ITNC 정기 지명으로 먼저 성공하기를 요구한다.우리는 이 페이지 상단에 "어떤 항목이 WP에 없기 때문에 반대하지 마십시오:ITN/R." [3]331닷 (토크) 16:35, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
아마쿠루만 덧붙이자면, 당신의 주장은 그렇지 않다고 생각한다는 것이다.BAFTA, 오스카상, 에미상 등이 유효하다. 단, 그것은 문자 그대로 BAFTA-Emmys이다.킹시프 (대화) 17:52, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 반복 이벤트가 ITNR에 나열되지 않았다고 해서 ITNC를 통해 ITN에 대한 자격이 없는 것은 아니다.이것은 뉴스에 나왔고 기사는 최신판이다.영국 텔레비전은 전세계적인 배급과 중요성을 가지고 있으며, BAFTA는 세계적으로 널리 인정받고 있다.나는 대부분의 출처가 우리가 인식하는 일반적인 고양이와는 달리 체르노빌의 승리에 초점을 맞추고 있기 때문에 일반적으로 blurb2를 지지할 것이다. --Masem (t) 16:32, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대하라 에미족과의 문제가 미국 유권자들의 편향이었다면, BAFTA는 영국 유권자들의 편향에 대항할 수 있다.그러나 그들은 한 걸음 더 나아가 모든 외국 제작물을 고려 대상에서 제외한다.이는 영국 유권자가 있어도 미국 프로그램이 승리할 것이라는 암묵적인 인정이다.따라서 BAFTA는 규칙적으로 2단계 프로그램에 대한 상으로 자리매김하고 있다.GreatCaesarGhost 12:42, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • @GreatCaesarGhost: BAFTA가 작년에 규칙을 바꿔서 미국의 공동제작인 킬링 이브가 후보로 지명될 수 있게 한 것 빼고는, 현재 지명된 사람들(예: 체르노빌)의 대부분은 국제적인 공동제작자들(모든 미국인들)이다.그래서 그들은 그것을 고쳤다.그리고 어쨌든, 에미 부부는 또한 그들의 국제적인 카테고리를 제외하고 외국 쇼는 제외한다. 외국 쇼가 이길 수 있기 때문에 에미스가 암묵적으로 2등급을 인정한다고 주장할 수 있다.킹시프 (대화) 17:14, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
그래서 이 계획은 다른 사람들을 낙담시키기 위해 당신의 이름을 반대하는 모든 편집자를 괴롭히는 것인가?첫째로, 에미상속부는 외국 쇼들을 배제하지 않는다 - 그것은 쉽게 증명할 수 있는 거짓말이다 - 올해 상위 카테고리에 외국 프로덕션이 몇 개 있기 때문이다.우리는 주니어 대학 챔피언을 올리지 않는다.우리는 그리스 바스켓 리그MLS를 게시하지 않는다.BAFTA는 에미 자격이 있는 쇼에 취직하고 싶다면 당신이 이기는 것이다.GreatCaesarGhost 22:12, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
괴롭힘? 나는 사람들에게 노골적으로 무식하게 반응하는 것이 허용되지 않는가?미안해, GCG, 난 네가 합리적이라고 생각했어.문제의 사실은, BAFTA 영화상이나 오스카상처럼, BAFTA TV상과 Emmys는 후보자들, 예를 들어 국제 체르노빌과 같은 엄청난 중복이 있고, 우리는 여전히 이 두 가지를 올릴 수 있다.BAFTA가 런던에서 에미족일 때 JV라고 주장할 수는 없다.참 우습죠.당신의 주장은 BAFTA가 외국 쇼들을 지명하지 않음으로써 그들이 2계급이라는 것을 인정한다는 것이었다. 그것은 완전히 잘못된 것이다. 그리고 당신은 그것을 지적한 것에 대해 나를 공격한다.고마워요.킹시프 (대화) 04:30, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
A) 당신은 모든 반대에도 응답했다.나) 주관적인 문제에 대한 견해의 차이를 "무식하다"라고 말한다.응, 이건 괴롭힘이야.GreatCaesarGhost 14:51, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
반대론자의 대부분은 "미국인이 아니므로 상관없다"고 하기 때문에, 내 반응을 잘못 표기하지 말고 당신 자신의 애드호미넴 공격에 대한 맥락을 무시하라.킹시프 (대화)20:12, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 세상에, 이게 "내 TV 쇼가 네 텔레비전 프로그램보다 더 낫잖아, 그래서 안돼"?최고급의 클랩트랩.The Rambling Man이 추가한 이전의 서명되지 않은 논평(토크기여)
전혀, 익명의 영국인.그것은 당신에게 지역적인 관심사가 전세계 청중들에게 자동적으로 중요하지 않다는 것이다.BAFTA는 영국에서 생산된 모든 좋은 TV를 위한 것이다.에미 가족은 그것과 더불어 대부분의 TV가 생산되는 할리우드를 포함한 다른 모든 곳에서 생산되는 TV를 위한 것이다.GreatCaesarGhost 22:12, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
그런데 그 코멘트는 TRM이 남긴 것이다.킹시프 (대화) 04:30, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
정말이지, 서명 안 했어, 어휴.GreatCaesarGhostKingsif가 WP에서 방금 쓴 글을 잘 읽을 것이다.BAFTA에 대한 ITNR 지명은 Emys와 마찬가지로 매년 포함될 것이다.많은 무지와 민족주의가 진행되고 있는 것 같고, 최소한 킹시프가 제시한 사실들을 이용하여 전자를 다룰 수 있다.그 횡설수설하는 남자( 안에 있어, 안전해!!!!) 21:46, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
미국인이 영국인의 명목을 최소화하면서도 반대로 완전히 받아들일 수 있는 것은 왜 무지와 민족주의인가?나는 상당히 타당한 이의를 제기했고, 완전히 기각되었다.한편, 지지자들은 모두 마치 기정사실인 것처럼 "분명히, 분명히" 있다.나는 게시물에 대해 그렇게 강하게 거부감을 느끼지도 않지만, 이곳의 수사학은 분명히 나쁜 믿음과 미개한 것이다.GreatCaesarGhost 16:50, 2020년 8월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지하다.세계 무대에서 Emmys만큼 주목할 만한 것은 많은 후보 프로그램들의 전세계적인 분포와 오늘날 정기적으로 등장하는 이중 국가 프로덕션이다.경쟁하지 않는 것을 "승리"하는 것에 대한 제로섬 게임으로 보는 국수주의적 헛소리에도 불구하고 실행되어야 한다. - SchroCat (토크) 18:45, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
  • altblurb를 지지하다.그 기사는 괜찮고 나는 이것이 공신력 기준에 부합한다고 확신한다.하지만, ITN에 이미 영구적으로 적용된 COVID를 블러브에서 언급할 이유는 없다.또한, 마지막 블럽에 공예상을 통합하는 것은 훌륭한 초호화성을 제공하지만, 너무 장황하게 만들고 과감한 연계를 다른 시상식과 혼동하게 만든다.드라마&코미디 부문이라면 간결한 'X승 a, Y승 b'는 충분하다.130.233.3.21 (토크) 06:57, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 세계적 관심사가 아닌 에 반대한다.홈페이지 뉴스 포스트를 보증하는 것은 눈에 띄지 않는다.또한, 그 행사가 있은 지 반주 이상이 지난 후 - 뉴스거리가 되지 않는다.케이틴 (대화) 15:01, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답]
    "세계적인 관심사"가 될 필요는 없고, 여러분은 알아차리지 못했을 수도 있지만, ITN을 포함하기 위해서는 3, 4일이면 된다: 위에서 가장 오래된 항목보다 오래되지 않은 한, 그 위치는 근거가 없다.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 21:48, 2020년 8월 4일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 준비됐나? 내가 이 명목에는 반대하지만, 충분한 지원이 있는 것 같고, 아이템이 노후화되고 있어.GreatCaesarGhost 17:29, 2020년 8월 5일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 케케묵은 물건들이 다 이것보다 새것들이야.하워드 (토크) 13:48, 2020년 8월 6일 (UTC)[응답하라]

(우편) RD: 앨런 파커

기사:앨런 파커(토크 · 히스토리 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명
흐림:영국 영화감독 앨런 파커는 그의 다양한 장르로 유명한, 19개의 BAFTA 상과 6개의 오스카상을 수상하는 영화를 감독했다.(우편)
대체 블럽:영국 영화감독 앨런 파커가 76세의 나이로 사망한다.
뉴스 출처:BBC, 버라이어티, 마감일, 가디언, 뉴욕 타임즈, 선정
크레딧:

위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

명명자의 의견:거의 괜찮지만, 인용구들 중 몇 군데에서 슈로캣 (토크) 16:18, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]

  • 지지 몇 개의 필모그래피 참조가 필요하므로, 그것을 기다리는 것이 최선이지만, 그렇지 않으면 잘 다듬어지고 충분히 상세해 보인다.킹시프 (대화) 17:25, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 필모그래피에는 빈틈이 없다: 그의 모든 작품을 커버하는 테이블 상단에 BFI로 연결되는 링크가 있다. - SchroCat (토크) 17:31, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 블럽으로 받쳐준다.역사상 유럽 최고의 감독 중 한 명.스캔들, 내전, 사기 등에 대한 현재의 흐릿함을 균형있게 풀어줄 것인가. --light show (토크) 17:35, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 가기에 좋은 RD지원하십시오. 계속해서 흐림과 관련된 대화를 나누십시오.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 17:39, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 에 따른 지원.러그넛 17:45, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • RD게시됨.품질에 문제가 없다는 데 의견 일치를 보았다.하지만 분명한 이유로 불쑥불쑥 하는 것을 반대한다.그는 좋은 영화를 몇 편 만들었지만 만델라나 대처는 아니다.아마쿠루 (대화) 17:48, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대루이스 표준을 사용하여, 주목할 만한 아카데미 상이 없었다면 연못 전체의 영향은 그리 크지 않았다.바굼바 (대화) 17:57, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
모든 사람이 그것을 단지 정치적인 인물들만을 느끼는 것은 아니다.루이스, 만다라, 대처) 또는 현재의 흐림에서와 같은 정치적 화두는 위대한 예술가보다 더 주목할 필요가 있다.파커는 스탠리 큐브릭보다도 더 많은 상을 받았다. --Light show (토크) 18:14, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
라이트쇼, 나는 루이스의 얼간이들이 궁극적으로 끌어 당기는 "표준"을 암시하고 있었다.바굼바 (대화) 19:01, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
바로 그거야이것은 tit for tat에 대한 것이 아니다. 나는 영국이나 미국 연구원들이 바에서 만나지 않는다고 생각한다면 똑같이 반대할 것이다.대부분의 사람들은 노후의 죽음에 대한 '명예'의 수준이 매우 높아야 한다는 데 동의하지만, 겉보기에 가정적인 이름이 떠오르면 불쑥불쑥 선거운동을 시작한다.기본값은 흐리멍덩하지 않고, 만약 우리가 그 시점부터 시작하면, 우리는 그것을 적정 수준으로 유지할 것이다. 왜냐하면 우리는 최근에 꽤 잘 해왔기 때문이다.건배 — 아마쿠루 (토크) 19:15, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
그것은 마릴린 먼로, 제임스 딘, 존 레논 같은 사람들이, 그들이 성숙한 노년까지 살지 않았기 때문에, 더 흐리멍덩해질 가능성이 있었으리라는 것을 암시하는 것 같다.이어 24단어 블럽과 초상화 사진을 나집 라작처럼 잘 알려지지 않은 일부 정치인에게 주는 것은 단순히 범죄 혐의가 인정된다는 이유만으로 설명하기 어려울 수 있다. --라이트쇼 (토크) 19:47, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
라이트쇼에서 영국 밖이 어떻게 중요한지 설명해 주시겠습니까? 많은 영화와 많은 영국 영화를 본 뉴요커로서도 그의 이름은 희미하게만 보일 뿐이다(아마 내가 피터 파커와 헷갈리고 있는 것은 아닐까).나지브 라작의 흐림 현상이 나타나는 것은 정부로부터 26억7000만 달러(약 7억 달러)를 가로챘기 때문이다.이것은 서양인으로서 당신에게 대수롭지 않게 들리지만 말레이시아와 해외의 많은 사람들에게 이것은 매우 크다.라브의 PM 메이까지 다뤘다면 횡령죄 유죄판결을 위한 블럽을 지지할 거라고 확신해.단테애니메이터 (대화) 20:38, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
와 같이 가디언지는 왜 파커가 영화에 변혁적인 영향을 끼쳤는지 설명한다.그는 몇 가지 이유 중 하나로 영화 뮤지컬을 소생시켰고 미국과 영국 영화 산업 사이의 장벽을 무너뜨렸다.IMO 그는 20세기 후반 영국이 배출한 가장 위대한 예술가들 중 하나였으며 심지어 경매회사들에 의해 위대하게 승진한 현대 캔버스 예술가들 위에서도 그러했다.그는 배우가 아닌 연출가였고, 프랭크 카프라처럼 스튜디오의 것이 아닌 자신만의 메시지를 내놓기 위해 자신만의 아이디어로 창조한 것이었고, 단순히 접대를 위한 것이 아니었다.그러나 내가 Najib Razak에 주목한 이유는 ITN의 흐릿함이 정치에 집중된 것처럼 보이고, 예술에 거의 집중되지 않는 것 같기 때문인데, 그것은 내가 잘못이라고 느끼는 것이고, 그 자체로 ITN의 가치를 떨어뜨린다.하루 0~5회씩 기사를 접수한 무명의 RD들이 수없이 올라온다. --라이트쇼(토크) 21:25, 2020년 7월 31일(UTC)[응답]
@Dantheimator:ITN의 많은 이용자들이 계속 말하듯이, 사용자가 사람에 대한 무지가 눈에 띄지 않는 이유라고 주장한다면, 그것은 사용자가 그 사람의 신용도를 판단하기에 부적합하다는 것을 보여줄 뿐이다."하지만 나는 그에 대해 들어본 적이 없다"는 말은 좋은 주장이 아니다.킹시프 (대화) 21:28, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
킹스파이프 미안하다.그래, 100% 맞아, 그레이트씨어스 고스트씨가 이전 토론에서 이 점을 꺼냈던 것으로 기억한다.그래서 나는 이 감독을 판단하기에 부적합하기 때문에 중립으로 입장을 바꿀 것이다.하지만, "커크 더글러스와 올리비아 드 하빌랜드가 실수를 하지 않았다면, 앨런 파커도 실수를 하지 말아야 한다"고 말하면서, 당신의 반대는 나만큼이나 결점이 있기 때문에 중립으로 바꾸는 것도 고려해야 한다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:16, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 이미 중립으로 변경했는데, 너는 아래 이유를 읽을 수 있어.킹시프 (대화) 18:20, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
당신은 반대 후 "나는 흐릿하게 중립으로 바꿀 수 있다"는 코멘트가 있다.반대는 아직 반대하는 것처럼 보이고 들리기 때문에 반대는 물리쳐야 한다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:25, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 커크 더글러스리틀 리차드 같은 사람들 중에서는 블러브반대한다.캘리덤 20:04, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • blurb 반대 (위의 지분 포지셔닝이 무엇인지 잘 모르겠지만, 파커는 John Lewis와 비교가 안 된다.)파커의 놀랍고 국제적인 필모그래피에도 불구하고, 최근 연예계 블러블이 높은 바(bar)가 주어졌고, 커크 더글러스, 올리비아 드 하빌랜드 등이 아닌 파커를 포스팅하는 것은 이상할 것이다.ETA: 내 코멘트를 다시 읽으면서, 나는 우리가 "X가 블럽을 받지 않았으니 Y가 하면 안 된다"라는 순환에 빠질 수도 있다고 느끼기 때문에, 블럽을 중립으로 바꿀 수도 있다. 이것은 설정하기에 도움이 되지 않는 기준처럼 보인다.킹시프 (대화) 20:09, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

*상기 컨센서스당 RD 지원내가 그의 필모그래피를 살펴봤을 때 가장 강력한 반대가 있었다.감독으로서 그는 많은 영화와 영화를 가지고 있지 않다. 나는 거의 0을 안다. (그리고 나는 많은 영화를 보았다.만약 이것이 흐릿하게 만든다면, ITN은 아무런 가치가 없을 것이다.단테애니메이터(대화) 20:26, 2020년 7월 31일(UTC)[답글]

  • 벅시 말론도?에비타? 반대 의견에 동의하지만, 만약 당신이 이들에 대해 들어본 적이 없다면, 당신은 전혀 영화광은 아니다.죠스에 대해 들어본 적이 있는지 물어보기에는 아마 조금 멀겠지만, 그 정도 수준이라는 것이다.그리고 둘 다 미국 영화야.킹시프 (대화) 21:25, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[답글]
내가 아직 보지 못한 그의 유일한 영화는 벅시 말론, 롤. 하지만 나는 그의 영화를 죠스나 스필버그의 어떤 영화와도 비교하는 것을 주저하고 있다.파커의 영화는 극도로 개인적인 것이었는데, 그는 항상 그의 등장인물들의 정신 속으로 깊이 뛰어들었기 때문이다.미드나잇 익스프레스와 그의 다음 작품인 명성만큼 다른 영화들 조차도 관객들을 극도의 개인적 세계로 끌어들였다.파커는 자신의 영화 대부분에서 나오는 보통 사람에 대한 엄청난 존경심을 가지고 있었다. --Light show (토크) 21:56, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
스타일이라기보다는 문화적 랜드마크라는 뜻이었지만, 그렇다.킹시프 (대화) 22:01, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
나는 그 이상은 아니더라도 적어도 20번은 죠스를 보았다.나는 미드나잇 익스프레스에 대해 들어본 적이 있는데, 그것은 그의 영화에 관한 것이다.나는 코미디를 그렇게 많이 보지 않기 때문에 버그시 말론을 봤더라면 매우 이상했을 것이다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:30, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[답글]

(폐쇄) 2020년 7월 화성 발사창구

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

기사: 지정된 품목 없음
흐림: 화성 발사 기간 중 UAESA호프를, CNSA톈원-1을, NASA퍼시버넌스를 발사한다.(우편)
크레딧:
명명자의 의견:이번 달에 세 번의 화성 발사가 있었고, 아래의 NASA 발사는 이 세 번의 발사에 대한 공동의 모호함에 대한 지원이 있었다. 닛시노바 T C 22:07, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아래 나의 논거에 따른 지원.Bzweebl (대화기여) 23:27, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 아래의 반대 컨센서스는 착륙할 때까지 기다리거나 임무 실패를 보고하는 것으로 보였다.나는 솔직히 ITN이 호프와 톈웬만 출범했더라면 우리가 공동 지명을 받았을 것이라고는 믿지 않는다. 그래서 여전히 NPOV는 아니고 페르세베낭스를 포함하려는 또 다른 시도인 것 같다.앨버타온트 (대화) 06:38, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대해, 착륙할 때 이걸 올리기로 합의했잖아그 발사는 특별히 중요한 것은 아니다.아마쿠루 (토크) 07:08, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다시 한 번 반대해, 세 번.발사는 간단하지 않고, 화성에 착륙하는 것은 매우 중요하다.2월이요.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 07:33, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 지원 대상 기사는 모두 상당히 철저하고, 탐사 기사의 창구 부분은 주제 설명에 능하다.세 사람이 단번에 오른 이유는 일리가 있지만, 그래도 흔치 않은 일이다.7개월간의 여행이기 때문에 그들이 폭발하거나 나타날 때 다시 게시할 수 있다. --LaserLegs (대화) 11:36, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • LaserLeg당 지원.단테애니메이터 (대화) 18:39, 2020년 8월 1일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 이전의 세 가지 토론에 모두 반대한다.그 우주선은 계획대로 화성에 착륙/또는 착륙하기 전까지는 전혀 쓸모가 없다.그들이 도착하면 우리는 이것들을 게시할 수 있다.발사는 그 과정의 한 단계일 뿐이다.수수한 천재 13:09, 2020년 8월 3일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

(폐쇄) NASA 화성 임무

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

Proposed image
기사:페르세우스(로버) (토크 · 히스토리 · 태그)와 화성 헬리콥터 독창성 (토크 · 히스토리 · 태그)
블러브:NASA의 플루토늄 추진 페르세베란스 탐사선(사진)과 인제너시티 헬기화성 탐사 임무띠고 발사된다.(포스트)
뉴스 출처:물리 투데이
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨
명명자의 의견:세 가지 물품 모두 상태가 꽤 좋다.Hawkeye7(토론) 01:05, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]에서 헬리콥터를 받고 싶었다.
  • 최근 화성 발사 논의에 반대하는 사람들은 결국 '폭발하거나 착륙할 때까지 기다린다'고 말한다.킹시프 (대화) 01:09, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 댓글에 의하면 화성에는 최초로 비행하는 휴대용 드론이 있다고 하는데, 그렇지 않으면 지난 화성 임무와는 다른가?내가 보기에 그 과대 광고는 부당하다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 01:22, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 장난감 헬리콥터 밖에서 반대하라, 이것은 큐리오시티와 같은 임무고 탐사선이다.우리는 지난 주 다른 화성 임무들과 함께 이것을 사형에 처했다; 이 착륙이나 "디들"이 나올 때까지 기다려라.앨버타온트 (대화) 01:30, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
    이 헬리콥터는 동력 우주선이 다른 행성을 비행하는 첫 번째 사례가 될 것이다.화성의 얇은 대기와 모든 것이 가능해서 놀랐다.호크예7 (토론) 06:12, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 코멘트 나는 ITN에서 이것들을 보고 싶다. 지금 발사하는 다른 화성 미션과의 공동연락은 어떨까? 닛시노바 T 05:21, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원 약 38억년 전 이곳 지구와 비슷한 풍성하게 존재했다면 화성에서의 전생물의 증거를 찾을 수 있는 첫 화성 임무다.아이블리스 카운트 (대화) 08:11, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 우리는 이 샘플들이 지구로 돌아오기 전까지는 고대 화성의 생명체들에 대한 실질적인 결과를 얻지 못할 것 같다. 이르면 2029년이 될 것이다.수수한 천재 13:42, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 화성에 대한 세 가지 임무의 발사와 관련된 지원 A의 복합 진입은 합리적일 것이다.우리는 이러한 모든 것이 이 시기에 일어나게 하는 Hohmann 전송 궤도에 대한 현재의 발사 을 강조해야 한다.미국 임무에만 집중하는 것은 NPOV가 아닐 것이다.Andrew🐉 (대화) 08:19, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 ITN이 나머지 2개를 출시 시점에 게시하지 않기로 결정했다면 우리는 지금 3번째 게시물을 게시해서는 안 된다.그들이 올 때까지 기다릴 수 있어. -- KTC (대화) 08:59, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 다른 유사한 최신 명목 JW 1961 Talk 10:08, 2020년 7월 31일(UTC)처럼 착륙할 때까지 기다리십시오.
  • 코멘트 나는 위에서 제안된 바와 같이 다양한 화성 임무 발사의 복합 진입을 지지할 것이다(허용 가능한 품질을 가정할 때 - 나는 확인하지 않았다) 그러나 나는 발사 중 단 하나의 진입에 반대한다 - 도착 때까지 기다린다(WP:ITN/R. TompaDompa (대화) 10:56, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 요즘 로켓 발사에 반대하는 것은 매우 일상적인 일이다. 만약 로켓이 이륙할 때 폭발했거나 그 후에 폭발했다면 주목할 만하다.주목할 만한 것은 언제 도착하느냐인데, 2월 재공천을 보자!'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 2020년 7월 31일 11시 2분 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 다른 최근의 발사들처럼 화성에 도착하기기다리세요.머더드 지니어스 11:56, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 우리가 중국의 사명을 복합적으로 하지 않는 한 반대하라. (제3의 일은 일어날 예정이었지만 내 머릿속을 스쳐가는 일이 있었다.하지만 현재 상태로는 어떤 발사도 지지하지 않고 도착만 하는 것처럼 들린다. --Masem (t) 13:09, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 – 백과사전적 형평성을 근거로 한다.우리가 UAE의 화성 착륙선 발사(19일)나 중국의 화성 착륙선 발사(23일)를 게시하지 않았기 때문에, 적어도 POV 편애 혐의로 정당한 비난을 받지 않고는 미국의 발사 장면을 올릴 수 없다.3개 탐사선 모두 2021년 2월 화성에 도착할 예정이다.그때까지 기다리자.Sca (대화) 13:30, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 세 가지 임무 모두에 대해 지원 게시글을 올리면 착륙도 할 수 있지만 몇 주 안에 화성 임무가 이렇게 많은 것은 이례적이다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 18:14, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여전히 관련성이 있는 경우 도착 후 레노미네이트에 반대하십시오.암마르패드 (대화) 20:09, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

7월 30일

전폐 제한을 위반하지 않는 경우에만 연결됨:포털:시사/2020년 7월 30일


(포스팅됨) RD: 밥 디어링

기사: 밥 디어링(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
최근 사망자 지명(우편)
뉴스 출처: [4]
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨
위키백과 기사와 함께 어떤 사람이나 동물 또는 유기체의 최근 죽음은 항상 게시할 수 있을 만큼 충분히 중요한 것으로 추정된다(이 RFC추가 토론 참조).논평은 기사의 질이 WP를 충족하는지 여부에 초점을 맞추어야 한다.ITNRD.

명명자의 의견:1980년부터 2012년까지, 2016년부터 2020년까지 미시시피 주 상원의원 출신이다.존698 (대화) 11:51, 2020년 8월 2일 (UTC)[응답]

(닫힘)독일 주둔 미군 철수

다음의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

기사:미국 유럽 사령부(대화 · 역사 · 태그)
흐림:국방부는 1만2000명에 가까운 독일군 철수와 미 유럽군사령부의 슈투트가르트(Stuttgart)에서 벨기에 몬스(Mons)로 이전을 발표한다.(우편)
뉴스 출처:뉴욕, BBC
크레딧:

아티클 업데이트 필요
명명자의 의견:나는 ITN 커뮤니티가 즉각적으로 사상자를 내지 않는 이러한 엄청난 권력 기계의 중요성을 정기적으로 과소평가한다고 생각한다.나토 주요 드라마로 미-독 관계에 타격이 되고 있다.앞서 계획이 발표돼 당시 공천을 검토했지만 이것이 공식 확정이고 계획의 범위를 넓힌다.기사는 매우 형편없고 아직 업데이트되지 않았지만, 나는 나중에 그것에 대해 작업할 것이고 바라건대 다른 관심 있는 사람들도 역시 그렇게 할 것이다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:23, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대합니다 나는 전문가가 아니지만 오렌지 리 바구니가 6개월 안에 POTUS가 될 수 없다는 것을 고려하면, 말 그대로 이런 일은 절대 일어나지 않을 수도 있다, 그렇지 않은가?행동할 때 보게 되어 기쁘다.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 21:34, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 반대. 완전 철수는 아니다. 331닷 (토크) 21:36, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 실제로 이런 일이 일어날지 확신하지 못한 채 외교정책 입장에 반대한다. -동양(대화) 21:40, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 댓글 기사는 형편없다.뉴스에 나왔지만, 지지했을 것이다. --LaserLegs (대화) 22:31, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대한다. 나는 이것이 더 큰 영향을 미치는 더 강력한 증거가 필요하다고 생각한다. (여기에서 언론의 크리스털볼링이 없다면, 우리는 그것이 일어날 것이라는 증거가 필요하다.)트럼프 주변 대부분의 사연들이 '이거 큰일이다!'라는 주장인데, 그렇다고 그걸 뒷받침할 수는 없다. --마샘(t) 23:26, 2020년 7월 30일(UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 미국은 내 군대를 포함하여 전 세계 100여 개국에 주둔하고 있다.그들이 모두 철수하지 않는 한, 혹은 적어도 상당수의 국가에서 철수하지 않는 한, 그것은 ITN에 적합한 항목이 아니다.물론 100개 이상의 품목이 모두 철수되지 않는 한, 우리는 100개 이상의 품목을 차례대로 보고 싶다.HiLo48 (대화) 23:30, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 상부에 반대하다.코멘트 이것이 실제로 뒤따르고 일부 다른 EU 국가들(오반의 지지를 고려한 헝가리)이 참여한다면, 나는 내 의견을 바꾸는 것을 고려할 것이다.이것이 EU 군대를 향한 첫걸음일 수도 있는데 그것이 실현된다면 엄청난 일이다.단테애니메이터 (대화) 00:38, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
위의 논의는 종결되었다.수정하지 마십시오.이후 코멘트는 해당 토론 페이지에서 작성해야 한다.이 논의는 더 이상 수정해서는 안 된다.

홍콩 반대파 실격

기사:2020년 홍콩 총선(토크 · 역사 · 태그)
흐림:홍콩 정부는 사상 첫 친민주 경선에서 나온 12명의 친민주 성향의 후보를 이번 총선에서 낙선시켰다.(우편)
대체 블럽:홍콩 정부12명의 민주화 후보자들을 다가오는 국회의원 선거에 출마할 자격을 박탈한다.
뉴스 출처:뉴욕, 로이터, BBC
크레딧:

기사 업데이트됨

명명자의 의견:홍콩에서 더 큰 뉴스가 나올 거야 못 이기면 금지해Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:05, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]

  • 정말 한 가지 문제를 지적하라, 정권에 반대하는 사람들의 결격은 새로운 것인가, 아니면 전에 그런 일이 있었는가.'람블링맨' ( 안에 틀어박혀 있어, 안전해!!!!) 21:35, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 이전 선거에서는 6명의 후보가 친독립이라는 이유로 부적격 판정을 받은 것으로 보이지만, 친민주주의라는 이유로 부적격자는 없는 것으로 보인다.홍콩을 좀 더 가까이 따라가는 사람이라면 이것이 정말로 전례가 없는 일인지를 따져볼 수 있다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:42, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 중국 반대는 공산주의 경찰국이다.이게 그들이 작동하는 방식이야.다른 소식으로는 내일 아침 동쪽에서 해가 뜰 것으로 예상된다. -아드 오리엔템 (대화) 21:37, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 중국은 경찰국이지만 적어도 덩샤오핑 이후 공산주의는 아니었다.Bzweebl (대화기여) 21:53, 2020년 7월 30일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 중국은 그럴지도 모르지만 홍콩은 그렇지 않았다. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 05:54, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • Fait Maybe는 오늘날 도날드가 미국 선거 전체를 연기할 것을 제안함으로써 트럼펫을 밟지 않았더라면 더 뉴스거리가 되었을 것이다.앨버타온트 (대화) 00:34, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 걱정마, 그 유목민은 23분만에 눈이 감겼어.이번 건은 계속 열어둘 수도 있고, 어쩌면 두 달 더 계속 진행할 수도 있어. --LaserLegs (대화) 01:04, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지원: 오늘 실격되는 사람이 더 많아지고, 내일 실격되는 사람이 더 많아지기 때문에 지금 ITN에 실격해서는 안 된다고 생각한다.최종 숫자는 12보다 훨씬 더 많을 것 같다.대부분의 경우, 경선 승자들이 모두 실격되는 것은 아닐지라도 가능성이 높다.세계에 얼마나 큰 규모인지는 잘 모르겠지만, 홍콩 맥락에서 여러 보수적 민주주의자(시민당케네스 렁 출신)의 실격은 충격적이다.현역 의원의 실격도 예사롭지 않다.OceanHok (대화) 04:15, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 지지 그들은 이제 선거를 1년 연기할 것이라고 발표했고, 따라서 이러한 논란이 되고 있는 상황들을 다루는 입주가 적절할 것이다.Andrew🐉 (대화) 12:39, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
    • 코멘트는 선거의 지연을 이것과 연관시키기 위해 뻗는다.현 정부에 가장 위협적인 후보들을 이미 실격시켰다면 이런 이유로 선거를 연기하는 것은 말이 되지 않을 것이다.다른 나라 선거도 COVID로 미뤄졌고, 현재 HK에서는 1차 선거보다 큰 제2의 물결이 일고 있다.선거 연기는 ITN의 경우 별도로 논의할 필요가 있다.앨버타온트 (대화) 15:53, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 앤드류 한 명당 지지.홍콩의 발전에 대한 더 큰 모호함이 눈에 띄었다.브리가드 피론 (토크) 14:49, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 여기서 볼 수 있는 것은 아무것도 없다. 이것은 NatSec 법의 논리적인 집행 활동이다.자격이 없는 사람들은 민주화 운동가 조슈아 웡 (로이터 출신) – '자격 없는' 후보자들의 교정에 대해 알 필요가 있는데, 이들은 자신들의 대의에 맞으면 폭력에 너무 만족한다.CaradhrasAiguo (left language) 14:57, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답하라]
  • 지지, 우리가 중국에서 본 것을 생각하면 놀랄 일도 아닐지 모르지만 적어도 홍콩에게는 보통 일이 아니다.그리고 이것은 NYC와 같은 도시에서의 지방 선거뿐만이 아니다. HK는 준국제적인 지위를 가지고 있다. -- ♥의 15:00, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 주: 실격 사건에 대한 별도의 기사가 있다: 2020년 홍콩 레그코 후보자들의 실격 논란.OceanHok (대화) 15:40, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]
  • 반대 현재의 표현은 "전통적인 민주주의" 집단이 출마 자격을 박탈당하지 않았다는 사실, 심지어 "지역주의/독립" 캠프의 모든 후보들도 고려하지 않는다.전체 31개 민주단체장 후보 중 12명이 부적격 판정을 받은 것으로 보인다.더 많은 것이 실격될 경우, ITN.104.243.98.96 (대화) 16:13, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]에 대한 지원이 더 많다.
  • 우리는 ITN에 대한 HK 항의를 오랫동안 진행해왔다.여기서 더 큰 이야기는 HK가 더 이상 특별한 지위를 갖지 않고 중국이 원하는 대로 할 것이라는 것이다.한 번 더 올리든 말든 별로 신경 안 쓰지만 권위주의를 향해 한 걸음 한 걸음씩 내딛는 것은 트럼프티커와 똑같다.GreatCaesarGhost 18:42, 2020년 7월 31일 (UTC)[응답]

(Posted) RD: Lee Teng-hui

Article:Lee Teng-hui (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):NYT, CNA, Reuters
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First democratically elected President of Taiwan. Significant coverage. Article has a tag though. ƬheStrikeΣagle 15:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Article text looks more than adequate, although some sections need documentation (or condensation). – Sca (talk) 16:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article far from adequate, ten whole paragraphs without a single reference. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose till references have been updated. There are specific locations which require citations. However, I am suspecting that there may be a mix of referencing from further reading sections. Otherwise, article seems ok and has been largely stable and improved (after comparing the 2010 more citation tag revision to current revision). – robertsky (talk) 16:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Former presidents of countries go on this list Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not if their articles contain multiple BLP violations. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:32, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    So if it was a stub without those problems, it would be allowed? Tell me what to delete and I will delete it. Tell me what sentnce to add a source to, and I can add it. What other Presidents who died in the recent past have been held up on this pretext? Geographyinitiative (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, the article can be brief, but must be relatively comprehensive. Just deleting loads of it is not appropriate. Add sources to all sentences which aren't currently sourced. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, deleting unsourced material from Wikipedia is the only responsible course of action. If someone finds a source for something later, they can add that content whenever they find that source. The page should be ready now. First Democratically elected President of Taiwan (Republic of China) died, let's inform the people who look at the main page. Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Should be a no-brainer given he was an influence figure and former head of state. Having an (subjectively) incomplete article shouldn't deter us from listing him on the front page. Also, article history suggests that people are actively trying to clean up the article (yes, I'm aware of editorialising, but this does not seem to be the case), so it should be sufficient in a few hours. In any case, this is a notable death. --AsianHippie (talk) 21:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Just as a note for the two !voters above, there is no need for us to argue about whether he's notable enough for recent deaths - all subjects with their own articles are eligible. The quality criterion is a bright line rule though, it can't be sidestepped just because we deem the person more important than others. Deleting prose isn't really acceptable either, unless you're sure it's wrong. As TRM says, go and find sourcing for what's there currently and then we can re-evaluate. — Amakuru (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Clearly notable figure. Article doesn't look worse than some other past RDs. Would be of genuine interest to wiki users even if not perfect. Albertaont (talk) 02:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I just added 7 sources to fill in the gaps. — AjaxSmack 02:30, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 10 paragraphs that do not end with a reference, some lacking a single reference. Stephen 03:41, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Robertsky and Stephen: Has the situation been corrected with the additional sourcing? On what grounds do you oppose telling the readers he died now? Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:00, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the grounds of it being a biography with unreferenced claims. Stephen 04:06, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Robertsky and Stephen: Such as? Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:22, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Geographyinitiative: 10 paragraphs that do not end with a reference, some lacking a single reference. Do you not understand what that means? Stephen 05:21, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru: @The Rambling Man: Changes have been made to the page. Are there any further obstacles to telling the readers that the former President of Taiwan died? Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:25, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are there any remaining objections? Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:07, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Geographyinitiative: I have reverted your deletion of material from the article. Much of that material looks to be correct, and is important for the article - e.g. details on how he stepped down and who his successor was. We have established before at ITN that simply removing chunks of an article, even though they lack citations, is not a solution to objections raised here. Please go and find citations for the sections which are missing them, and than we can look again. As such, I still have to oppose for now. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 07:03, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I remain in objection while uncited claims are made. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Geographyinitiative: As I have mentioned, the text is possibly supported by the book in the further reading section, judging from the preview in Google Books. I would like to do the citations myself today, but then the public libraries at where I am are closed for a holiday, barring myself from reading the book for the day. In the meantime, as many of us here have done so, we have been sourcing for alternative references to help support the claims here. Nonetheless, the parts of the article remains unsourced. – robertsky (talk) 08:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Robertsky: I believe it is morally unconscionable to add or restore material to a Wikipedia page for which you are not personally aware of the sources. Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:30, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Geographyinitiative: uh huh. I have to clarify that I wasn't the one who added or restore material. Did you even take a look at the edit history and find out who did it? However, I support the reversion and here's my 2 cents' worth on the matter, the text had been largely stable for at least decade or so. I would have assume that if there were any disputes about the veracity of the claims in the text, these would have been trashed out somehow somewhen, but had not cited either properly or explicitly the sources of the claims, which lead to the appearance of the text being underreferenced. By default, we should try to fix the problem here, failing which, we then remove the unverifiable text. Earlier in this entry, I did mention that the text may be supported by the book in the Further reading section, and this was based on the limited preview I read through Google Books, thus reinforcing my view that the content referencing could be fixed. It is demonstrably fixable since the reversion of your content removal with the subsequent edits done by various editors to include references from various sources. – robertsky (talk) 04:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All we're doing with an RD entry is saying that the person is dead and so that's the only fact that matters. More general issues of article quality are not the business of ITN. If subjects are in the news then they will be getting lots of readers regardless – over 25K in this case yesterday. In such cases, Wikipedia therefore has to rely on its general policy of imperfection and the corresponding disclaimers which appear on the main page, just like every other page. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:45, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, BLP means we don't publicise articles about individuals completely steeped in unreferenced claims. It's very simple, and nothing to do with "imperfection". The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:52, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The article in question is vital and is grade B class, which is quite good by Wikipedia standards. Attempting to impose separate and idiosyncratic standards is absurd because readers can and do read the article in large numbers regardless. The quality of the ITN section is reduced by such errors of omission. If the casual reader should happen to notice that RD is snubbing this prominent figure they are likely to suppose that this is bias – kowtowing to the PRC by failing to recognise Taiwan or just failing to notice someone because they are not UK/US. My !vote stands. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:13, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    We discussed the "B grade" yesterday, remember? Anyway, WP:BLP trumps your concerns to rush horrendously under-sourced material to the main page of encyclopedia. I'm not sure how many times we have to tell you the same thing. If you disagree with how ITN functions, start an RFC to use it as a shop window for unsourced and sub-standard articles. Until then, repeating the same argument time and again but doing nothing about it is a waste of everyone's time. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:11, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:BLP is quite irrelevant because the subject is dead and the article is being read in large numbers regardless. All that's happening here is putting a brief link into RD so all this huffing and puffing is hyperbole. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps you need to read the policy before making such erroneous claims. In fact, if ITN was to follow your two main paradigms (1 – post popular stories irrespective of their encyclopedic value, 2 – post articles regardless of their quality and verifiability) I think we'd end up with the Daily Mail on the front page. Nein danke. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:44, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The sources supplied for this above are the New York Times; CNA; and Reuters. Simply providing a link to a death reported by these reliable sources is not a big deal. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:03, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You still haven't read the policy. Don't just cherry-pick. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:13, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing to support - I have found citations for almost everything now, and others have amended bits of text, also with cites, so I think this is finally ready to go now. I'll not post immediately, just in case anyone spots any lingering problems but marking as ready. — Amakuru (talk) 14:49, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I'd say it's satis now, good work. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD - no objections after I marked it ready, and it seems that all reasons for opposing are cleared now. — Amakuru (talk) 16:06, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Herman Cain

Article: Herman Cain (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Muboshgu (talk) 14:44, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose a couple of citation needed tags, otherwise seems satis. I wondered what happened to him, RIP. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 14:49, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    John M Wolfson, no cn tags left. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Multiple news outlets have now confirmed his death. [6], [7], [8] - Jgeorge20 —Preceding undated comment added 15:00, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Seems to be a direct result of the Tulsa rally. Sad! Davey2116 (talk) 15:46, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support x 9-9-9 pbp 15:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted by Valereee. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:45, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb? Not for his death alone, but for the fact that he is, I believe, now the biggest celebrity to die of COVID-19 who wasn't an octogenarian or otherwise already sick. BD2412T 01:53, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Absolutley not, particularly given there wasn't consensus to post John Lewis, who, in the same "field", was significantly much more influential. --Masem (t) 01:57, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    John Lewis was not a pizza lobby chairman. Herman Cain was not a civil rights congressman. But as old black cable news subjects, yeah, Lewis was bigger. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) July 2020 Afghanistan attacks

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:July 2020 Afghanistan attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Nine Taliban militants, including two leaders, are killed by security forces during clashes in Ghazni Province, Afghanistan. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Following clashes in Ghazni Province, Afghanistan, 9 Taliban militants are left dead.
News source(s):[9];
Credits:
Article updated
Nominator's comments: A bit short but with some work I think it'll make it. This is my first image nom so if I made a mistake, please correct me. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - thanks for the nom, but the article isn't really in a suitable state for posting now. It has no lead and sections so is not really structured correctly, and also no proper prose - it's just a bulleted list of timeline entries. Also, I'd have to question the significance of it... regrettable though it is, unless I'm mistaken incidents of this nature are commonplace in Afghanistan. What is particularly notable about this one, compared with all the others at Category:2020 murders in Afghanistan and related pages? Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 17:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as the article is really a list of discrete sentences. Out of curiosity, what's the relevance of the mountain image? ——Serial 17:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Serial Number 54129 The mountain image is an image taken from Ghazni Province, which where the incident occurred. I personally though put the image with the nom because I think it's just breathtaking and cool. It is one of those natural wonders you don't see often in my opinion. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping back. I've scratched my oppose as the issue I raised has been dealt with. I agree it's a great picture, but it's too tangential to the reader to be of any particular use to the reader, I'm afraid. (That's only my opinion though.) ——Serial 19:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Two stub tags are present at the bottom of this article. Also, there isn't any prose in it.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 17:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Weak Support This article now have proses and is sufficiently sized. However, the image doesn't really correlate to the attacks in Afghanistan.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 18:36, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Working on adding prose in the background section and modifying the format. Will try my best to make this a suitable article. Would appreciate assistance from any veteran editors. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait lets give the OP time to turn this into our run-of-the-mill disaster stub like the bus plunge or South Sudan attacks before shutting it down with a wall of opposes. Killing two Taliban leaders might generate a few paragraphs of prose. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
LaserLegs "like the bus plunge or South Sudan attacks" You meant to say Sudan attacks, not South Sudan attacks. It a very easy mistake that I also made it lots of time before. I think it helps if you remember that Darfur is in Sudan and that Sudan has arguably more violence than South Sudan. Otherwise, I guess just think of the desert when you think of Darfur (when I think of desert, Sudan comes more naturally to me than South Sudan, which is sub-Saharan). Dantheanimator (talk) 18:45, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I also confuse the Carolinas. Sorry about that. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about it. :) I do the same mistakes all the time. Once last year in my history class I confused Siberia with Serbia lol. We all make mistakes, just human. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:28, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you LaserLegs for all the help and support! I added a map using your sample and a statement by Ghani. It looks ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:28, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Finished fixing and expanding the article. I'll remove the image since there is opposition toward it. It's a pity though, was hoping this great image can be displayed on the homepage. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support A string of attacks in short succession is probably notable article is as good as the Darfur attack. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose- Source does not demonstrate notability of the event. Not even the deadliest attack in Afghanistan this week, and just because it's the bad guys getting killed doesn't make it more newsworthy. Practically no information is available about the importance of these "leaders." Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 21:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bzweebl would it help if you compared it to the Darfur attacks (which are posted) or even the Anshun bus plunge? Regarding the info on the "leaders", I doubt the Taliban or really most if any "terrorist" organization would divulge that sort of sensitive info. If I made an alt-blurb that combined the Puli Alam explosion and this would you reconsider? Dantheanimator (talk) 03:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This particular attack was not covered in most major international news sources. That should be enough to disqualify it. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 20:53, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Donald Trump calls for the US election to be delayed indefinitely

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 United States presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Donald Trump calls for the 2020 United States presidential election to be delayed indefinitely (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Count Iblis (talk) 13:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a mere statement (on Twitter!) from Trump. Iff the election is actually postponed, that could be worth posting on ITN. Political posturing is not. Let's wait to see what happens. Modest Genius talk 13:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose more nonsense from the orange wonder. Once it's postponed, we can re-visit. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:15, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ITN is not a Trump ticker.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:27, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Huawei

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles:Huawei (talk · history · tag) and Samsung (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Chinese mobile brand Huawei becomes the leading mobile smartphone brand in the world surpassing Samsung in the overseas sales during second quarter of 2020 amid the COVID-19 pandemic. (Post)
News source(s):CNN; CNBC;
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A prominent news in technology Abishe (talk) 08:49, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we don't post "routine" business news. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 09:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment another one I'd be willing to consider with a better target article (maybe Smartphone#Sales) and a more subdue blurb. With respect to John we post routine sports, routine weather, routine politics, we can post routine business too if it's in the news and has an article worthy of putting on the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:07, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • With the exception of politics, we don't post "routine" (as opposed to recurrent) examples of any of those, just important stuff such as storms and championships. Likewise with business, this is material for Forbes and not the ITN section. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 15:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose trivia. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:51, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Far too limited of a market segement. If we were talking of all businesses regardless of market, maybe. --Masem (t) 15:19, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook face anti-trust charges

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles:Google (talk · history · tag) and Amazon (company) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:American tech giant companies Google, Amazon, Apple Inc. and Facebook are questioned before Congress for alleged harmful power and anti-competitive strategies to quash potential competitors in the market. (Post)
News source(s):BBC; CNN;
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A prominent news in technology Abishe (talk) 08:49, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Stonehenge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article:Stonehenge (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The source of the sarsens of Stonehenge (pictured) is discovered (Post)
News source(s):BBC; Guardian; South China Morning Post
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Science in the summer sunshine – the story has good assonanceAndrew🐉(talk) 08:02, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of projects have an interest in the topic and they mostly grade it as B-class which one would have thought was good enough for ITN. As the topic is level 4 vital, this is a good opportunity to push it up a level. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sadly no, the B class/"vital" level 4 is irrelevant here. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Compare with the current blurbs. 1Malaysia Development Berhad scandal and 2020 Twitter bitcoin scam are C class. 2020 Darfur attacks is just start class. Anyway, I found a few {{citation needed}} and I've taken care of them. The article now has over a hundred citations and a huge bibliography. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:34, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think Stonehenge would be a very worthy front page article link. But I guess the news story might be bigger if you live in Marlborough. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you've proved your own point to be incorrect, we don't pay heed to the "class" or whether some individual has deemed it "vital", we look at the quality of the article standalone from those arcane practices. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:43, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well done Andrew for proving your own point to be incorrect. I often seem to manage that. But then I'm all too fond of those arcane practices. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]
  • Oppose not particularly significant, although a good story. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 09:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Always great to see assonance on the front page. How about "The secret source of the stunning sarsens of Stonehenge suddenly shown"? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: has this research been published in a peer-reviewed journal? The Guardian story says 'published on Wednesday' but doesn't say where, and the BBC doesn't mention it. It's an interesting story, but peer review should be a minimum requirement before we even think about article quality. Modest Geniustalk 11:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Science Advanceshere. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks to Martin for those links. It's good that the paper was published under a CC licence so that we are free to read it for ourselves. The authors were charged $4,500 for this publication so we should count our blessings that the WMF doesn't charge us thousands of dollars to publish articles in Wikipedia too. We just have our own bureaucratic barriers to deal with ... Andrew🐉(talk) 12:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Support. Thanks, that's a very nice paper and the results are convincing. Article quality seems fine to me - it would be nice if there were more explicit footnotes, but all controversial statements seem to be suitably sourced. Modest Genius talk 12:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as trivia, except for Chevy Chase. ——Serial 12:29, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that the story does have a quirky US angle to it: "Employee Robert Phillips kept it in pride of place in his office, which he later took with him when he emigrated to the US, and its existence remained unknown for six decades." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:58, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as a minor mystery solved but changes little of our understanding of Stonehenge. (I'd love a main page section that's not quite DYK, not quite ITN for these nice quirky tidbits, but this qualifies for neither). --Masem (t) 15:22, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is fine ITN material of high encyclopedic value revolving around a resolved mystery summarised in a nice scientific paper. I wish we had more similar stories nominated for the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:23, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per above. Comment If anybody is planning to ever go to stonehenge, I strongly advise you against going. The Avebury Stone Circles are older, larger, and cheaper than Stonehenge and are also located in the UK. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:19, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, I went to Stonehenge, got there early, was the only person walking around. It was beautiful and inspiring. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It is actually possible to see Stonehenge for free using a public footpath which runs nearby, if you're prepared to walk a little away from the nearest parking spots! I wouldn't agree that it's not worth visiting anyway. Avebury's nice too (I've been to both in the past) but it doesn't have the cross beams that make Stonehenge so recognisable... — Amakuru (talk) 20:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is completely off topic, but I agree that Avebury is more impressive than Stonehenge. Nevertheless it's still worth visiting both - they're only a few miles apart and easy to visit on the same afternoon. Modest Genius talk 20:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Stonehenge B&B" at Slades Farm: reasonable rates. Hippies welcome. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]
Very interesting, thanks everyone for the insight. I personally have never been to the UK or Western Europe so I had no clue of their close proximity. Going to be honest though I still think Avebury's got more going for it. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bah! Just a cheap imitation. Some of Avebury's stones are made of concrete! Martinevans123 (talk) 06:39, 31 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]
  • Comment there are numerous unreferenced paragraphs, several unreferenced sections and multiple unreferenced claims. If we want to start using ITN as a shop-front for articles which need improvement then I'll support. I don't think that's part of the current ITN criteria, so until then this can't be featured. I realise there's a gut instinct to want to feature something as notable as Stonehenge, almost by default, but as we all know, the sheer number of refs is somewhat irrelevant when large portions of teh article have no references. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:42, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- science stories are underrepresented and, unusually for such stories, this is of popular interest. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 20:45, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Not front-page worthy compared to the scientific discoveries or revelations we feature - it confirmed a "suspicion" according to archaeologist Susan Greaney. -- Fuzheado Talk 11:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Outside of anglo-centricism, no relevance whatsoever for ITN. Does not advance our understanding of science or culture. To compare, Mars probes were 10x more interesting, and that was nearly SNOW closed.Albertaont (talk) 00:37, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stonehenge is a World Heritage Site and so of interest to the entire world. And the estimate of 10 times is quite mistaken. Consider the readership for the last week. Stonehenge got more peak readership than any of the three Mars missions and more than any of the three ITN blurbs too. ITN's selection of blurbs is of appalling quality, failing to reflect what's actually in the news. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Andrew Davidson I agree with you that this should be accepted but can you please stop using page views as evidence? Also, there are many UNESCO sites around the world, no different with this one. There also much worser/larger stuff happening with other UNESCO sites, like Virunga National Park, a UNESCO cite in the DRC, which was attacked yesterday! I feel like your looking at the news through your own lens, maybe try looking it through some individual in the Eastern world and see whats in the news for them. It's certainly not Stonehenge or other Western cultural items. Dantheanimator (talk) 02:15, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 29

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 29


(Posted) RD: Bob McCurdy

Article:Bob McCurdy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Richmond Times-Dispatch, Radio and Television Business Report
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American college basketball player who led the nation in scoring in 1975. —Bagumba (talk) 10:34, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Joe Kernan (politician)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Joe Kernan (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [11]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Governor of Indiana, Lieutenant Governor of Indiana, and Mayor of South Bend Jon698 (talk) 03:28, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have some concerns about the tone of the article which strikes me as bordering on a puff piece. I also note that while at first glance the article appears well referenced, many of the citations are to nakedly promotional sources. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per AO. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Mike Gillespie (baseball)

Article:Mike Gillespie (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 03:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Decent article and adequately sourced. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a lot in the second half of the infobox that's not mentioned or referenced in the body, including awards. Stephen 05:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Malik B.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Malik B. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):CNN; Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Founding member of The Roots CoatCheck (talk) 01:03, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose too short, no update on death, refs are bare urls/citations missing. When the article is improved, obvious support. Kingsif (talk) 01:28, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now per Kingsif. Needs work. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:08, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Perence Shiri

Article:Perence Shiri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 05:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support pretty well referenced article JW 1961 Talk 12:54, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, although some work on the prose would certainly be beneficial. Nice to have a Covid-19 good news story for a change! —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
😃 ——Serial 12:33, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Gisèle Halimi

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Gisèle Halimi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): France24
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Manish2542 (talk) Manish2542 (talk) 11:35, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Orange-tagged. – Sca (talk) 12:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also needs some ISBN's JW 1961 Talk 12:50, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ISBN's done, turned works into easier-to-read table w/ translated titles. PotentPotables (talk) 17:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Insufficient depth of coverage regarding her career/work as a writer. SpencerT•C 14:10, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Andy Haden

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Andy Haden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; The New Zealand Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 05:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Short article but all seems to be referenced well JW 1961 Talk 12:48, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article can do with expansion but what's there is solid. Very influential player. Schwede66 19:38, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Spencer, Stephen, and Amakuru: I think this is ready to go. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:11, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reference for cheating and unsporting conduct does not assign those terms to him. There's undue weight about a single event in a match against Wales, but next to nothing about his 40 other appearances for one of the most revered teams in Rugby. Stephen 05:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to agree. I had this tab open on my browser ready to look to support but it just didn't feel right, that an All Black with 40 appearances had such a one-sided article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 06:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Stephen and The Rambling Man: just added 4 sources that assign the terms "cheating" and "unsporting". And most of them describe more than just that one incident against Wales. —Bloom6132 (talk) 08:44, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That doesn’t solve the problem that not a single other match or tour is worthy of mention? Or his club career? Just a single match controversy making the majority of the content. Stephen 10:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Needs a major rewrite, as it's completely unbalanced right now and seriously fails WP:NPOV and the WP:BLP policy. — Amakuru (talk) 10:26, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Amakuru: please have a look again at the additional material just added. —Bloom6132 (talk) 10:41, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Regretfully, no, it's still an oppose from me. As I said above, it needs a major rewrite. A few tweaks aren't going to make this conform to BLP policy. Even the later years section seems to focus more than half of its prose on yet another "controversy" regarding his book. I've no idea of its history but the article's tone doesn't seem to square at all with the largely positive stories I'm seeing in the headlines. — Amakuru (talk) 13:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Insufficient depth of coverage regarding his rugby playing career. SpencerT•C 14:12, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Removed) George Floyd protests

Article: George Floyd protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: No update has been made to the article about any recent development for a week now. This is no longer ongoing and stale. Invisible Lad (talk) 03:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tentative oppose the Portland stuff is still very much ongoing from what I can tell on Twitter, but that is admittedly not the best source. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 03:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose With large events like the Floyd protests or previously the Hong Kong protests, where the event has gone on so long that there is a summary-style structure with subpages covering different facets/timeframes of the event, we have to look the updates at those pages, as the smaller details may not be appropriate to be adding to the main event page. As as pointed out, the Portland protests are still very much happening and ITN (as legal action is being taken). --Masem (t) 03:58, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • we have to look the updates at those pages -- is this an explicit Ongoing criterion? Nixinova T C 07:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The ITN wording for ongoing says "In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information.". Common sense should be obvious that when the target article is so large (likely due to the longevity of the ongoing event) to have summary style breakdowns that the target article may no longer be the one regularly updated. This is, for all purposes, how the Olympic and World Cup articles are normally structured too. --Masem (t) 15:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • The main article needs to be updated, which is exactly what happens with the Olympic and World Cup articles that we list in ongoing. Stephen 02:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article linked on the Main page does not have any events dated later than 20 July. Stephen 04:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and replace with an article on the ongoing situation in Portland. Banedon (talk) 04:38, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now Portland situation is still ongoing and still notable in ITN. 36.77.135.75 (talk) 04:57, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If Portland protest lives, let's watch that. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:33, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if "Portland protests" is so significant, let someone propose a blurb for it. This ongoing has expired. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • So where are the updates in George Floyd protests in Portland, Oregon? Again, no significant updates for anything in the last week? Stephen 08:04, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per above. The continuing protests, by virtue of their size and extent, are no longer globally notable. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:29, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Clearly no longer "ongoing". – Ammarpad (talk) 10:09, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support long overdue --LaserLegs (talk) 11:22, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's not so newsworthy anymore JW 1961 Talk 12:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - It's fair to say at this point the protests have become less about George Floyd and more about, rather paradoxically, the federal government's response to the protests.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 12:49, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. — Amakuru (talk) 12:53, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Probably could've been taken down sooner. Awsomaw (talk) 14:24, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support no longer ongoing despite still happening. 114.125.237.107 (talk) 15:02, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Spencer, Stephen, and Amakuru: It seems we have an overwhelming support for removal. Invisible Lad (talk) 15:17, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed -- KTC (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom, let's focus on other things. Em-mustapha talk 18:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • PR Support It's time. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- Obviously given that it's been removed, my opposition is moot now, but protests are continuing beyond just in Portland. Last Saturday someone was shot and killed in Austin, while Seattle and other cities are still seeing action. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 05:52, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 28

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 28


(Closed) RD: Mo Gaba

Article: Mo Gaba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

TJMSmith (talk) 15:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John McNamara (baseball)

Article:John McNamara (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The Boston Globe; NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 01:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Looks like a decent article and adequately sourced. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference [9] is dead, and supports at least one whole paragraph. Can a replacement be found? Stephen 05:19, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Stephen: I've replaced the dead URL with the new one (same source) and archived the latter. —Bloom6132 (talk) 05:58, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Reese Schonfeld

Article:Reese Schonfeld (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The New York Times; CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 01:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Conviction of Najib Razak

Proposed image
Articles:Najib Razak (talk · history · tag) and 1Malaysia Development Berhad scandal (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The former prime minister of Malaysia, Najib Razak, is found guilty of all seven charges in the first trial related to the 1MDB scandal. (Post)
News source(s):CNBC, CNA, The Jakarta Post, South China Morning Post, The Straits Times, Al Jazeera
Credits:

Nominator's comments: First prime minister of Malaysia to be convicted in a criminal court. Najib was found guilty of three counts of criminal breach of trust, three counts of money laundering, and one count of abuse of power. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 05:36, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose not important to posted at this place because it was only relate to a single country and no international significance. 110.137.184.3 (talk) 07:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It is seems very important to be posted it on ITN because it is the first time that a Malaysian PM that be convicted. 182.1.229.226 (talk) 07:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – pretty sure this judgment will be appealed. If so, shouldn't we wait until all avenues of appeal have been exhausted? —Bloom6132 (talk) 08:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is news now, if overturned, that may be newsworthy on its own. --Tone 09:31, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The cause for conviction looks strong, and because other trials related to the scandal are also progressing separately, there might be few chances for appealing. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 10:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support we do in fact generally post convictions. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 09:13, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, per John M Wolfson. This is internationally significant. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:22, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a quick scan of the Razak article shows enough unreferenced claims to pause a BLP. I hope someone has time to read it in detail (I won't today) and double check any exceptional claims before it's rushed to the main page. 1MDB looks ok but the timeline section is unreferenced (and for a subject like this, it adds value so please avoid scrapping it). --LaserLegs (talk) 10:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose bolding the bio, No Comment on the case 🌏 InedibleHulk (talk) 10:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per JMWolfson; even if it does go to appeal, it is the original conviction that is the first notable event, from which the others later stem. ——Serial 10:48, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for bolding bio, Support for elsewhere. While i disagree to have bio bolded in blurb, internationally significance event influence this to be posted. 114.125.236.57 (talk) 10:55, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Five years after the fact, this conviction is of doubtful general significance. – Sca (talk) 12:19, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • In case you didn't know, the scandal was a big part of the reason why Razak's party lost the previous Malaysian election. Banedon (talk) 13:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support assuming we post convictions. If we don't then this should wait since Razak has already indicated he will appeal a guilty conviction. Banedon (talk) 13:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per John M Wolfson comments JW 1961 Talk 14:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as long as the Timeline on the scandal page is unsourced (it seems that should be easy to source reusing the existing sources on that page). This is otherwise hitting all the right checkboxes for posting - former world leader, conviction passed down (even though there will be an appeal), article quality otherwise is fine outside the timeline. --Masem (t) 15:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Masem and LaserLegs: have sourced for references for the Timeline section. – robertsky (talk) 18:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Wow, nice job. Razak is still missing a few refs and bold or not we can't link a BLP vio from the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Is the "Background" section on Razak's article appropriate at all? That's material that should be in the lede, at least to a point, or as somewhere in the part about his period as a PM. I've never seen a Bio with a background section like that. --Masem (t) 21:19, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I have to agree with Support here. This is significant.BabbaQ (talk) 16:28, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Significant as the scandal and his actions had affected Malaysia, and other countries. – robertsky (talk) 18:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major story and both articles seem sound quality-wise.-- P-K3 (talk) 19:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Significant and important to a lot of people. I'd imagine all the American wikipedians here would almost immediately post the same thing if it concerned Pence. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:52, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support The 1MBD scandal has been a major case of corruption, this is a significant development therein. Gotitbro (talk) 02:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 27

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 27


(Posted) RD: Frank A. Howard

Article: Frank A. Howard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Leesville Daily Leader
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: COVID-19 related; Sheriff of Vernon Parish, Louisiana and member of the Louisiana House of Represntatives TJMSmith (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Everything looks to be well referenced JW 1961 Talk 21:48, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:12, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) Blurb/RD: Owen Arthur

Article:Owen Arthur (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:Former Barbadian Prime Minister Owen Arthur, the architect of the CARICOM Single Market and Economy, dies at age 70. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Owen Arthur, the longest-serving Prime Minister of Barbados and architect of the CARICOM Single Market and Economy, dies at age 70.
News source(s):NationNews Barbados, Jamaica Observer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Longest-serving Barbadian Prime Minister. He supervised the rollout of the CARICOM Single Market. Joofjoof (talk) 01:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support article looks good, you could suggest a blurb because of his influence in Caribbean politics, but I don't know if it would get posted. Kingsif (talk) 02:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The only barrier to that would be if the article quality is low and no one volunteered to fix it up. At glance, this article is not in bad shape. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, I have added blurb candidates.Joofjoof (talk) 03:23, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • His article does not do him justice: There is no mention of him being the 'architect' of CARICOM, nor have any great influence other than longest-serving. Most of the article is given over to opposition political machinations. Stephen 04:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditionally support RD, once his article does him sufficient justice, per those in the know. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:13, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support RD only a couple of unreferenced statements persist, the rest is satis. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks OK for RD. – Ammarpad (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD looks good to go there - neutral on blurb JW 1961 Talk 21:51, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD per others. Support blurb because of his importance. CARICOM is almost the equivalent of the EU in the Caribbean. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a comparison that's rather too flattering to CARICOM. Aside from the fact that it has a combined population that is significantly smaller than Benelux, it also has much more limited competences.—Brigade Piron (talk) 09:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
EU = 27 member states. CARICOM = 15 countries and dependencies (plus associate and observers, which are excluded from this count). Now Europe has 44 countries and the Caribbean (traditional definition) has 13 countries and over 13 more territories (so in total, like half of that of Europe). Taking this into consideration, the EU unifies as many countries in Europe (relative to the total number of European countries) as does CARICOM unifies countries/dependencies in the Caribbean (relative to the total number of Caribbean political entities). Comparing them based off pop. and size is misleading and fails to show the political reconciliation/unification that the organization has accomplished. Besides, as mentioned by Joofjoof, he's also the longest serving pm of Barbados, in itself notable. Dantheanimator (talk) 03:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD Stephen 23:56, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per Brigade Piron. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 10:47, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral on blurb- clearly a transformative head of state, which is usually a good bet for a blurb, but the lack of international, in-depth news coverage may be a disqualifier. Major figure in underrepresented region is the kind of blurb I'm loath to oppose though. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 22:20, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Darfur attacks

Article:2020 Darfur attacks (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Approximately 500 gunmen attack a Masalit community in Darfur, looting and burning down houses, and killing more than 60 people, the UN says. (Post)
Alternative blurb:In a series of attacks over disputed farming land in Darfur, Sudan, over 80 people are killed and tribal villages are destroyed.
News source(s):DW (in English), BBC, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Very violent Dantheanimator (talk) 13:12, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • WaitNYT says "some 120 said to be killed," BBC puts toll at 80. Given the region's long history of internecine slaughter, these rather sketchy reports would require further confirmation. – Sca (talk) 13:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose even by our standards the current article is too short - and filling it up with background and reactions sections won't help. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've expanded and cleaned it up a little, including correcting dates; no background or reaction yet, but something on the War in Darfur seems relevant. Kingsif (talk) 20:43, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still short but sufficient now, I'd say. A paragraph about the background is reasonable. --Tone 21:53, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support unlike LaserLegs' continued pointedness, there is no background, there is no reaction, and yet it's more than a stub and thus meets our requirements. I guess I've missed something else that can be sniped, but from my point of view it's ok, just a little brief. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Mind your WP:CIV. He was looking at a much different article hours before you. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:57, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What, mind your own CIV. Sadly LaserLegs has recently taken to making pointed edits which is a shame as they strongly undermine his normal useful input. If you missed the related pointedness, please take a look at the Hanna nomination. In the meantime, the moment I take civility lessons from you is the moment I quit Wikipedia, and that ain't gonna happen. Cheers. (And finally, the "version" LaserLegs was looking at had no such sections, did you miss the point?!) The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 00:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    At the time at which I reviewed the article, it was indeed a stub and rightly tagged as such. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    And when I looked, there still wasn't a Reactions section and filling one up remains a pointless way to help, so good fucking job there, buddy! Not even sarcastic. I'd buy civility lessons from you before even asking TRM if he's open, for what that's worth. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:05, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    👏👏👏
    . The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    InedibleHulk that's really rude. I get that Wiki is not censored but do you really have to curse? Your acting kind of disrespectful to us younger individuals! Same goes to you too The Rambling Man for supporting such crude behavior and language. Your cursing just goes to show your limited vocabulary and lack of care for the innocence of younger individuals. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:57, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Dantheanimator please show me where I supported crude behaviour and language and apparently used "cursing"? Is this some kind of joke? The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:02, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh I get it. InedibleHulk did indeed use the naughty F-word. We're all grown-ups and can deal with that. He then went on to suggest that he'd rather take social lessons from a user who I had suggested was being pointy, in preference to me. I sarcastically applauded that. He liked it. And now you're giving it the "think of the children"? I'm totally bemused by your behaviour. Perhaps you didn't quite understand the nuances of communication here. I'd be happy (as I'm sure InedibleHulk would) to take some time to step you through this discourse. No-one died, a "bad" word was used once, but the context for it all was essential. Give me a shout if you need some help with it all. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The Rambling Man I was just about to post a apology when you commented again. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No worries, it happens. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I wrote an eloquent apology, with some decent mitigating backstory and no profanity, but accidentally double-tapped my X button and lost everything, so #$@% it! TRM explained my innocence well enough, I'll mind my words when talking to you, Dan. Shocked and appalled to learn that applause was sarcastic, though, shocked and appalled. But really, I find it a bit disrespectful, rude and offensive to see young people called "individuals", especially repeatedly. I'm not hurt, just saying. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:36, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's in the news, it's a big deal for the region, and it's new (as compared to some of the items in the box). Banedon (talk) 01:21, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 01:29, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This article got just 1,000 readers yesterday so I'm not convinced that it's really in the news. For comparison, there was a story about a St Bernard dog being rescued which got good attention and I see that the readership of our St. Bernard article has doubled to about 5,000. So, the Darfur raid rates less than a shaggy dog story.
These numbers are quite small so I checked what our readership is actually reading. RDs dominate with Olivia de Havilland leading at about 500K. But I was startled to see war pig in the Top 10 with 150K. The flaming pig is a wargaming favourite but they date from the classical era and so don't usually appear in the news. So what's going on? My best guess is that it's due to this recent headline: War against wild hogs rages on across Oklahoma. Feral hogs have been in the news for a while now as they are the vector for another pandemic – African swine fever virus. Countries like Germany are building a wall to keep out the hogs while it seems that Canada has already fallen! And even the English Channel won't keep the UK safe as the Goldsmiths are in the news for rewilding it by releasing deer and wild boar!
So, when you emerge from your lockdown seclusion – watch out for huge feral hogs – they are on the march!
Andrew🐉(talk) 07:35, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As ever, if you'd like ITN to become WP:TOP25, you'll need to start an RFC. In the meantime I think it's time to stop regaling us with these meaningless pageview statistics. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Andrew Davidson: Please abide by WP:POLEMIC, cheers. ——Serial 09:00, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for teaching me "pigloo", though, seriously. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:11, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – Still rather sketchily sourced; not much in the nooz. (Not an argument for pulling, tho.) – Sca (talk) 12:26, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Standard disaster stub. Few sentences about the attack, no details about the perpetrators. A year from now it'll look much like it does today with no follow-up and the only thing linking to it will be lists and infoboxes. Typical fare for ITN I'm afraid. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:00, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's comically similar to the "see also" article 2010 South Darfur clash which we featured at ITN, and has barely been touched since it was created in 2010. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment Thanks Kingsif and others for making this an actual readable article. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:57, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 26

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 26


(Posted) RD: Edmund Ansin

Article:Edmund Ansin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The Boston Globe; Miami Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 23:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Hans-Jochen Vogel

Article: Hans-Jochen Vogel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-time mayor of Munich who was instrumental in shaping the city and bringing the 1972 Olympic Games to the city as well as leading German politician for multiple decades. SoWhy 09:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I would have nominated him later, working on it. I just did a round of copy-editing so far, now comes the harder job of references, and I will have to go soon, RL. Help! - The German article is very detailed, but as usually without much referencing. We should at least get publications and some more awards over. He'd really deserve a mentioning. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:07, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, a few unreferenced claims. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:50, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Support satis. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:58, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inclined to Support, its down to 3 CN's, a lot of good work on improving this article today JW 1961Talk 21:05, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Please look again, cn gone, TRM. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 22:05, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Hurricane Hanna

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Hurricane Hanna (2020) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Hurricane Hanna hits Texas. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: When there's a hurricane in the Atlantic, it always rains here in London and it's been raining... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the extent of casualties and damage is known. Only a category one but COVID may cause unusual impacts. 331dot (talk) 09:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose no indication of any kind of consequences in the blurb, some unreferenced claims in the article, what makes this interesting to our readers right now? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:14, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in the news, decent article. Posting a storm during storm season does storm things is well established here. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not trying to be rude or anything, but didn’t you oppose Cyclone Amphan for the same reason why you support this one? Quoting you, you said "storm during storm season doing unremarkable storm things". Or maybe you're being sarcastic about supporting this one. Wait for both article quality to improve and disaster impact to be known. 45.251.33.222 (talk) 12:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Impact unclear. So far seems to be comparatively moderate property damage. – Sca (talk) 13:07, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Was definitely not as strong as Harvey when hit, and while it was damaging homes and threatening flooding amid a COVID stricken area, a lack of significant deaths would make this a non-headline storm for us. --Masem (t) 13:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Blurb does not state the country in which 'Texas' is located. Chrisclear (talk) 14:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Chrisclear Are there other Texas's in the world that this would be confused with?(genuine question). Texas has an outsized profile and is well known in the world(as they say everything in bigger in Texas). 331dot (talk) 14:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the first question - I do not know. My main concern relates to your second sentence. What exactly is the threshold for determining which geographic locations have an "outsized profile"? Couldn't we just make it easier for Wikipedia readers who do not live in the country in which Texas is located by naming the country in which it can be found? On a related note, if a weather event took place in Maharashtra, population 112 million, I find it hard to believe that it would be listed without a country name. Is it really that hard to do the same for Texas, which only has about 30 million people? Chrisclear (talk) 14:52, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not "hard" per se, but it seems unnecessary(though I don't "oppose" doing so) if there is no other entity named Texas that it will be confused with. Not every detail needs to be in the blurb. That's what the article is for. Texas might have less people than some Indian states but if it were a sovereign country it would have the 10th largest economy in the world.(according to Texas) 331dot (talk) 14:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's no need for special pleading here.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 15:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Chrisclear shows up every time there's a blurb proposed for a US place that doesn't explicitly name the country (just search the archives). P-K3 (talk) 23:00, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
C'mon, everyone knows that Texas is in more than 15 American states! Apparently, Texas is in Texas!!! Seriously though, I support adding the country as well for the sake of uniformity and the fact that it sounds/looks better to me (same editor who first replied to LaserLegs). 45.251.33.220 (talk) 16:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Chrisclear - it doesn't need to, per WP:PRIMARYUSAGE. Texas means the American State, unless otherwise defined. Mjroots (talk) 18:24, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment appears to be dissipating now, with a single fatality. Tragic while that is, this won't linger in the memory. The archetypal ITN "storm in a teacup". The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:31, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Suggest swift closure before it starts snowing. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:50, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well this clinches it. If there's no "aftermath" section applicable, I'd suggest this is a non-starter, a non-event. Time at the bar, ladies and gents..... The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    For the sake of social distancing, lads, I would actually suggest avoiding the bars if you can help it. WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 23:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's the first named Hurricane of the 2020 season, and that's notable. But Hanna formed, hit land, and moved across Mexico without doing anything notable or important. A Hurricane named "H" in July is notable, I concede. But Hanna has not caused (thankfully) enough damage or death to put it on the front page. doktorb wordsdeeds 18:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing usually when a storm dissipates we move it to the ongoing section for a week while the aftermath section gets stale. It makes sense to follow the same established pattern. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure how this pointy suggestion helps at all? There is no aftermath section, it's been removed because there simply isn't an aftermath to a non-event regular meteorological event. Your original support was undermined from the start, by your own self-admission and I'm not sure what you're doing here now, other than making your own opinions less appreciated going forward. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:03, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose seems to be a case of "nothing to see here" — Amakuru (talk) 21:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 25

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 25


(Posted) RD: Eddie Shack

Article:Eddie Shack (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; NHL.com; The Globe and Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 00:37, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support article looks in a reasonable condition to me. zhsdh — Amakuru (talk) 00:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Hockey bios tend to be under-sourced, but this one is in good shape. Teemu08 (talk) 04:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • plus PostedBagumba (talk) 07:06, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD/Blurb: Olivia de Havilland

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Olivia de Havilland (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: British-American actress and Golden Age of Hollywood star Olivia de Havilland dies at the age of 104. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Sadly she has gone with the wind. RIP. It's a GA, and a decent one at that, so this is practically good to go off the bat. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Edit conflicted, beaten to the nom, SUPPORT. Mjroots (talk) 16:18, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted, GA, so the article is already in the prime shape. --Tone 16:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support and as a comment for the record, while the -ology on this page was not sourced, it is fully sourced on the linked standalone -ology page, which is also an acceptable way to do that , if that -ology page exists. The issue is usually (as with say John Saxon above) the main -ology table just lacks any sources. --Masem (t) 16:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well no, it's never good form to rely on a linked article to provide sourcing. There's no guarantee that the linked article won't be modified or even that those links are reliable, particularly problematic when we're talking about BLPs. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    In terms of, say, a GA or FA quality and the permanency of it, yes. For the length of time an RD will be up, I think its reasonable, but obviously we could just copy the refs over easily. The issue we normally have is the absence of any references for the cast or creative participation anywhere in WP (or relying on IMDB or the primary source.). --Masem (t) 17:06, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not really, whether it's a C-class or an FA, it's a BLP and sources shouldn't be relied upon in other Wikipedia articles. That's a dangerous argument to start propounding here as "reasonable" or "an acceptable way to do that". Verification of claims in articles should be in those articles and not relying on other Wikipedia pages (Wikipedia is not RS). For highly experienced admins to be suggesting otherwise seems like a huge problem to me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:38, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Post-posting luvvie support. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Masem, what is an "-ology table"? (please {{reply to}} on reply; thanks!)Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Masem means "filmography" for instance (not -ology), we typically have massive tables of appearances which aren't referenced for these kinds of BLPs. As you can see from above, there's some contention as to whether references should explicitly be listed in the BLP (as is my contention) or it's just fine to rely on other linked Wikipedia pages to find such sources (as is Masem's assertion, albeit just for ITN [which is a very odd transient approach I'm thusfar in 15 years of being here unaware]). The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I did mean -ography here, but my point on the sourcing was more in that, the usual RD from the entertainment side that gets here has hardly any of their -ographies sourced at all - on the BLP page or the separate page. I agree that the sourcing of the works on the BLP page should be there in the long run, but in this case the sources were all there in the filmaography page, so it would be trivial to bring them over to meet that, putting this article light-years ahead in that quality factor than others. It should still be done but I would not have made that an issue to at least pull the posting, but a recommendation before posting. But again - trivial here. The 99% of the RD of other entertainment and creative types just don't have that as astarting point. --Masem (t) 01:48, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obvious PP Support for RD Also Support blurb as the last surviving star from Hollywood's golden age. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:15, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose blurb Perhaps the last icon of that age but not one of the top icons of it. --Masem (t) 17:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What is PP? I am guessing RD is recent death(s). (please {{reply to}} on reply; thanks!)Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:25, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Emir of Wikipedia PP is "Post-posting." P-K3 (talk) 23:06, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurbMuboshgu (talk) 17:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Mjroots (talk) 18:20, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Inactive since 1988, despite lying infobox, more fondly remembered than influential at death. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per Ad Orientem. I just carefully read the entire article, and in my view de Havilland is clearly blurb-worthy. Her historic career spanned Gone with the Wind to Roots. Not only was she the last major survivor of the Hollywood Golden Age, and a top award winner including two Oscar wins, many other awards and international honors galore in retirement, she was instrumental in freeing artists from abusive industry practices via a lawsuit that is named after her, the De Havilland Law. The icing on the cake is the article quality, which we should be proud to feature on the front page. If they have not done so, I suggest opposers, and potential opposers, read her article in entirety for themselves. Today, July 26 2020, indeed marks the end of an era. Jusdafax (talk) 20:39, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It was a damn fine career, and left a good bio we do feature on the main page, just not at all an interesting death (her era died long ago). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Age 104? I find her sheer longevity interesting, and healthy to the end. May we all be so unusually fortunate! Jusdafax (talk) 21:23, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a long life; maybe should've nominated her 100th birthday, but too late now (Gail Halvorsen is creeping up, if anyone's interested). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Jeanne Calment did not star in her first movie until she was 114. She lived for over half a decade longer. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, and if Betty White beats her time, I'll support her blurb, but 104 is 6% of a century short of even super old, much less duper. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb we don't just post very old people who died who were very famous a long time ago. Far from blurb-worthy I'm afraid. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb with regret c.f. my reasoning w/ Vera Lynn. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 22:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per the ongoing convo, I believe we're better off keeping blurbs to a minimum. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:27, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. It seems paradoxical that blurb-worthiness should fade with age. If Sean Connery or Woody Allen or Meryl Streep lives to be 104, will we then say they are no longer blurb-worthy because their careers were in a different era? BD2412 T 01:54, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: John Saxon

Article: John Saxon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: While bio is generally sourced, nearly no sources on the -ologies Masem (t) 04:09, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SOFIXIT. 86.187.168.14 (talk) 08:38, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not interested in the slightest, thanks IP. Your contributions here are invaluable, by the way. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Maurice Petty

Article:Maurice Petty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 00:13, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Peter Green (musician)

Article:Peter Green (musician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Press Association, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A little work needed, but it's not too far off SchroCat (talk) 16:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose - the "Peter Green Splinter Group" section needs help but otherwise it's practically good to go. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at the moment; big chunks of unsourced information in "Fleetwood Mac". I look forward to seeing this up eventually, "Albatross" remains a favorite. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have added some more information from the NYT obit, and tidied up some of the referencing. Harrias talk 13:31, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Much improved - I think this is ready now.-- P-K3 (talk) 20:35, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Azimzhan Askarov

Article: Azimzhan Askarov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 15:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 24

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 24


(Closed) RD: Regis Philbin

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Regis Philbin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):People, Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Needs updating and major sourcing. Masem (t) 19:34, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there are a good number of un-referenced claims. Maybe my colleagues could refrain from piling on opposes right away, and check back in a day to see if the article has improved any. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:16, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose roughly 80% is unreferenced. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:58, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Eh, we almost made it two hours. 75.188.224.208 (talk) 23:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Always happy to return to re-visit. Also I trust several of our admins here to understand when an article is ready to be posted. Cheers IP, do come again. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Abstain An excited manner and New York accent are hardly his trademarks, a gimmick as old as television. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:00, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure that the ownership of those characteristics (who created them) doesn't matter. Those are things that he can be easily recognized for having, regardless of who created those characteristics or how long television has existed. He was a television host known to have those characteristics, @InedibleHulk:. (for the record, I am not voting. Just making a counterargument to a weak oppose vote. The rest have basis, the article could use some work. Therefore, this is a Comment.)DrewieStewie (talk) 04:35, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If I asked a hundred people to name a witty, excited New Yorker and even a quarter picked Regis, I'd be amazed. It's too generic to claim, even rhetorically. Biting the heads off bats, wearing a meat dress or playing guitar in Times Square are distinctive elements. But yeah, a "weak oppose", I could have said. Fair play on crushing it! InedibleHulk (talk) 05:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Referencing improving; looks like 4 CN tags and an unreferenced discography section, and then it should more or less be good to go. SpencerT•C 05:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Rene Carpenter

Article:Rene Carpenter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The New York Times; The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 01:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

plus Posted. El_C 08:08, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerry Taft

Article:Jerry Taft (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):ABC 7 Chicago (WLS-TV);
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 11:12, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Short but looks well-referenced. – Ammarpad (talk) 17:52, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 17:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting weak oppose Per the lede, he's notable for being a meteorologist but tbh there's very minimal information about that in the article beyond being called "one of [the Chicago Tribune's] favorite weathermen" and being the second most popular meteorologist in Chicago in a poll. SpencerT•C 23:37, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think he had an independent career as a meteorologist, he used that skill entirely through his weather presenting (and possibly also through radar work with the air force), so I don't directly agree with Spencer's objection. However, what does concern me is that there's no mention of when he was elevated to chief meteorologist and really no detail on any aspect of his career in that role, other than a few anecdotes and tributes. I tried to find some detail online and really struggled, so this info may not be readily available. — Amakuru (talk) 07:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Benjamin Mkapa

Article:Benjamin Mkapa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Reuters; Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 07:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: The article is reasonably extensive and well-sourced. I hate the "Honours and Awards" section in principle (see WP:TRIVIA) but it's no basis not to post! —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:34, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have issues with the corruption accusations noted in the Presidency and Post-Presidency sections. First, Clare Short defended the spending; this reads that she criticised it. Second, we need to say who is doing the accusing - the opposition, the media, int'l authorities, etc. Finally, the shortness of the article creates WP:BALASP concerns because so much is tied to corruption. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:09, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GreatCaesarsGhost: I've clarified that Short was criticizing the deal with BAE systems for military aviation equipment (i.e. "the latter purchase"), and not the purchase of the presidential jet. —Bloom6132 (talk) 11:20, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support In good shape, balanced and cited throughout. - SchroCat (talk) 14:41, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Would like a bit more lead, and not so many flags, but no reasons not to support. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks OK. – Ammarpad (talk) 17:46, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 17:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 23

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 23


(Posted) RD: Dick Bond (Kansas politician)

Article: Dick Bond (Kansas politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [12]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Majority Whip and President of the Kansas Senate Jon698 (talk) 19:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paulette Wilson

Article: Paulette Wilson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New article with excellent sourcing. TJMSmith (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All sources, including several parliamentary reports and internal Home Office investigations acknowledge that the Home Office denied British citizens their legal rights. I will attempt to find a more neutral, concise way to frame the fact that the Home Office -by its own admission - fucked up big time in the way that it implemented this policy. Pincrete (talk) 08:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've modified that last sentence to read "… the Home Office failings in its implementation of the hostile environment policy". I don't think anyone would dispute that implementation failed.Pincrete (talk) 09:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I've removed the image, and otherwise it looks good enough to me. — Amakuru (talk) 07:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks much better now. – Ammarpad (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Vanamonde (Talk) 03:53, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Stuart Wheeler

Article: Stuart Wheeler (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Telegraph
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:23, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 22

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 22


(Posted) RD: Stanley Robinson (basketball)

Article:Stanley Robinson (basketball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Hartford Courant; CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Operation Legend

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Operation Legend (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Donald Trump initiates Operation Legend, escalating federal law enforcement presence in cities across the United States. (Post)
Alternative blurb: The United States initiates Operation LeGend, escalating federal police presence in cities across the nation.
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The escalation of military forces across the United States is becoming an independent story from the George Floyd protests. At this point, Operation Legend has not only been implemented, but is beginning to expand, which is incredibly alarming. 2607:F720:1901:1701:137:110:42:223 (talk) 22:33, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We can't post every crime Trump commits or there will be no room for the Ashes! But seriously- this is small potatoes in 2020. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:56, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is a federal crimefighting effort, the likes of which America has never tried, not a petty Trump crime. This thing is doomed if his name's in the blurb. Especially if LeGend's isn't. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:07, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You know the Brits are never going to allow this. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As long as the Iroquois Confederacy stays dead and buried, viva la revolution! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:36, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support Replace "Donald Trump" with "The United States" and capitalize that shot kid's G, this is a turning point, not a CNN project. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC) Support Alt Blurb InedibleHulk (talk) 02:18, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose having decided to keep the George Floyd protests in ongoing, I think we should decline this as well. If we remove the George Floyd protests from ongoing then I'll support making this a blurb. Banedon (talk) 00:18, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above. And a better time to post would have been when the Portland situation got out of hand, now it's just a footnote to that disaster. When the protesters start properly fighting back, that will probably get a blurb. Kingsif (talk) 01:40, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alternatively Support Ongoing Whatever is escalating here, all signs and sides point to the horizon, as if to say nothing has been settled yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Part of the existing ongoing protests for all purposes. --Masem (t) 01:48, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: @Banedon: @Kingsif: @Masem: Not sure if you know, but the operation is not related to the protests directly. It was implemented because of the reported increase of crime throughout the United States.--WMrapids (talk) 01:55, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also the Chicago kind, which just never seems to decrease. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:04, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the media are tying the launch of the program to the protests including what has happened recently in Portland, considering the remarks made by Trump in the days leading up to this are based on the gov't response to Portland, and the cities where this is being targetted looking to take similar responses that Portland and Oregon did to restrict the gov't actions there. Yes, on paper its seperate, but its not being treated that way. --Masem (t) 02:15, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is it the same "most of the media" that routinely attempt to assassinate the president's character and don't care if some other guys run the agencies responsible for this U.S. operation? If so, they're partial and heavily "on paper". These ongoing events are separate in fact (though admittedly concurrent). InedibleHulk (talk) 02:49, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The President scarcely needs help from the media in assassinating his own character.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 16:04, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Though some of you mistakenly state that this is related to the protests, the operation is intended to be separate. With the United States deploying federal agents throughout their territory in response to increases in crime, this event should qualify as being notable. The US government does not deploy federal agents to combat crime on a nationwide scale very often.--WMrapids (talk) 01:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - A Nixonian election-year ploy. WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 02:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all. A de facto part of the protest stories, which we have (and should have) in Ongoing. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 02:26, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Walt and John. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:31, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment did anyone actually read the article? Operation Legend is a typically cynical and reactionary move from the Trump administration but is not the secret police action in Portland. The mayor of KC asked for assistance due to non-protest related violence. Also oppose for that reason. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • While on paper it has no ties to Portland events, it is being connected by the media and analysts to it based on the line of statements made by Trump and actions taken. It would be inappropriate, per UNDUE, not to acknowledge this connection even if its not explicitly stated. --Masem (t) 16:08, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Walt and John. — Amakuru (talk) 10:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Grand-standing response to the George Floyd protests. If something major happens as a result of this operation we can reconsider; simply deploying some federal officers is not enough. Modest Genius talk 11:09, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Full of sound and fury, signifying not much. – Sca (talk) 12:33, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Change to diplomatic immunity UK-US

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Death of Harry Dunn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Following the death of a British man caused by an American diplomat's wife, the UK removes diplomatic immunity for the relatives of US diplomats. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Weak suggestion because the box is going stale, and a relatively significant change in international relations. Kingsif (talk) 21:52, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. As I understand it, the loophole has been closed only for US staff at RAF Croughton where there was a "special arrangement" in place. Although Dunn's parents see this as a minor victory, the case is far from resolved and the true news item will be if and when Sacoolas returned to the UK to face trial. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
and p.s. Jonathon Sacoolas is described as a "CIA operative" rather than "a diplomat", which suggests polite tea and scones at the Embassy. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:12, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's the beauty of his disguise, it's supposed to suggest whatever people think it should. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose much like the Universal fire, not something of major significance. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 22:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    a) why would you bring that up here, b) you think the universal fire was insignificant?! GreatCaesarsGhost 22:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    a) Just something off the top of my head that I remember was discussed and rejected here, and b) in the grand scheme of things, yes (though the artistic destruction was regrettable). – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 23:04, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose too minor. Today's news is dominated by other topics - Covid, upcoming US elections, US-China tensions, etc, so even though this is technically international it doesn't get much coverage even in the countries it affects the most (i.e. the UK). Banedon (talk) 00:25, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Nonsense, it was the top news story in the UK yesterday. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:31, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support decent article, in the news, truly shady behavior from the US on this one. Relevant because of the US-UK special relationship. This has been a year in the making which means all other efforts to achieve justice had failed. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Doesn't rise to the level of a global-impact transformative story IMHO. — Amakuru (talk) 10:31, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose this most definitely received huge coverage in the UK and little wonder it's been "overlooked" in the US because of the "shady behavior", allowing a woman who accidentally killed a child to escape completely free under a technicality. Disgusting, but as noted by Amakuru, probably not in the top 1000 encyclopedic news stories of the year, although only just not. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:34, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Tragic death and a silly loophole, but the number of cases that will be affected by this legal tweak is miniscule. Modest Genius talk 11:06, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Far below the significance threshold. – Sca (talk) 12:35, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Charles Evers

Article: Charles Evers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [13]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Civil rights leader and first black mayor in Mississippi post-Reconstruction Jon698 (talk) 20:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Andrew Mlangeni

Article: Andrew Mlangeni (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Anti-apartheid campaigner, Mandela ally – Ammarpad (talk) 15:30, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Mostly ready. One concern is uncited fact that he was born in Soweto. A named source [15] says he was born in Bethlehem and raised in Soweto. Easy fix, but I'm not sure if there is any question on this point? GreatCaesarsGhost 15:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Did some more digging, and not seeing Soweto anywhere. Changed it, now ready. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Good nomination.Sitaphul (talk) 16:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Looks pretty good. – Sca (talk) 17:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:05, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tim Smith

Article: Tim Smith (Cardiacs) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NME
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lots of citations needed, but might as well get this up there now as hopefully it can be improved! — Amakuru (talk) 10:12, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Very sad news. Cardiacs were a unique band, and there's not many times you can say that. Working on the cites now ... Black Kite (talk) 12:55, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think I've cited everything. It probably needs a bit of polishing but I think everything important is there. Probably will be able to improve the sources a little when the extended obituaries come out. Black Kite (talk) 13:24, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sufficient. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:10, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Houston Chinese consulate closure

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article:Chinese Consulate-General, Houston (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The United States Department of State orders the closure of the Chinese Consulate-General in Houston, Texas (pictured). (Post)
News source(s):AP, CNN, BBC, DW, Xinhua
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Unexpected event for the US, an escalation of the trade war. Headline or near-headline news in major news sources. Article on the consulate-general itself admittedly relatively bare, but the news is quite new. Juxlos (talk) 09:56, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is the top news item of CNN, BBC News and Financial Times at time of this comment, and excluding COVID updates generally the top item in American sites. Not exactly "minor". Juxlos (talk) 11:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support in the news, stubby but good enough article. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:28, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Political posturing over unspecified "egregious behavior." – Sca (talk) 12:55, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I don't know if this sort of symbolic posturing has any long-term impact. I think the minimum ITN would consider for an escalation is a partial or total trade embargo between China and the U.S..--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One)
  • Snow Close - It might be important and significant to the US, but does not relate to the whole worldSitaphul (talk) 13:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

13:23, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2020 India-China Skirmishes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nominator's comments: The skirmishes between India and China are ongoing and there have been significant updates to the topic as well. Sitaphul (talk) 08:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posturing and bickering aren't skirmishes. The article is huge with the usual background and reactions filler. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:25, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • LaserLegs , I think you might not be well-versed with the topic. 20 Indian soldiers and an undisclosed number of Chinese soldiers died in the border skirmishes. I believe that it is not just posturing and bickering.Sitaphul (talk) 13:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:Sitaphul, the actual confrontation last month where 20 Indians and several Chinese were posted. Now I dunno if an additional 20 Indians and more Chinese died since then... the article isn't updated to state that fact. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:10, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Howard the Duck No, an additional 20 Indians and Chinese didn't die, I request you to check the attached news article.:)Sitaphul (talk) 16:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Sitaphul: we're not here to check the attached news article, we're here to check the Wikipedia article that's the whole point. If the last skirmish was a month ago, then the skirmishes aren't ongoing now are they? --LaserLegs (talk) 16:02, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • User:Sitaphul, this is a nomination for ongoing item. ITN has already reported on the prior skirmishes -- there are no actual armed confrontations since late June -- at least this is what the article's "Incidents" section says. You may not be well-versed with ITN. Please take a look at what "ongoing" means at WP:ITN#Ongoing section. Then follow up on me once you do. Howard the Duck (talk) 16:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We already reported this as ITN during initial clashes. This does not meet the criteria for Ongoing as there has been no military engagements since. Recommend for speedy close Albertaont (talk) 16:53, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 21

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 21


(Posted) RD: Annie Ross

Article: Annie Ross (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [16]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Still has a little way to go on the references. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lalji Tandon

Article: Lalji Tandon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Governor of Indian State Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please a look now.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looks fine GreatCaesarsGhost 15:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object the article is rather incomplete and lacks basic details. He was an MP in the parliament of the largest state in India for 31 years (about 200m people in today's terms), including 4 as opposition leader, but all we have is 3 lines with a list of offices occupied. It then states he was a minister in a coalition government without saying when this power-sharing occurred or the background behind it, and says he was a minister under Kalyan Singh, without explaining what and when, and there is no details on policy. There is no detail on the motivation or background behind him switching between the different houses of parliament, and state and federal politics, and apart from an accident and one line on unviersities, nothing on policy Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted, a basic referenced article is sufficient. Extended analysis can be added if you wish. Stephen 23:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Hostage crisis in Lutsk

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Hostage crisis in Lutsk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:An armed man took at least 20 people hostage on a bus in the western Ukrainian city of Lutsk. (Post)
News source(s):BBC, AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Developing so we can change the blurb accordingly Sherenk1 (talk) 11:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - not seeing this as of huge global significance right now. In the unlikely event that it all ends in a tragic killing spree then we can re-evaluate. — Amakuru (talk) 13:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, at this pt. sounds like a wacko. – Sca (talk) 13:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(I know this is closed but are we sure we really don't want to post this now? :) Hostage siege ends after Ukrainian president endorses Joaquin Phoenix film --Masem (t) 04:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Francisco Rodríguez Adrados

Article: Francisco Rodríguez Adrados (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC.es
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spanish Hellenist and member of the RAE and RAH. Article is in good shape.

  • Oppose for now - article is technically just over the stub limit, at 1630 bytes of prose size. But almost half of the content is devoted to the "Awards" section at present. It needs more prose in the "Career" section, because that's what he is notable for. — Amakuru (talk) 13:10, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's 285 words. – Sca (talk) 15:40, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as it is a stub. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 21:52, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- I combined smaller sections. I think it just clears stub class. TJMSmith (talk) 22:08, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Seems sufficient. Above comments state this is a stub as if that were a fact. My understanding is that the stub designation is subjective. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:28, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object Clearly this learned fellow was notable for his scholarly achievements, but it would be an important aspect of the article to exhibit what this is. The article simply says he is, without explaining what his contributions to the field were. It just says he is an expert, and the prizes and academies indicate this is true, but it doesn't say how he moved the scholarship forward Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Short, referenced, can be expanded as you see fit. Stephen 23:17, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:2021 ICC Men's T20 World Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:2020 ICC Men's T20 World Cup is postponed to 2021 by the International Cricket Council due to COVID-19 pandemic. (Post)
News source(s):BBC, NDTV, International Cricket Council
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The 2020 Summer Olympics postponement was also posted in ITN. The 2020 ICC Women's T20 World Cup which was held in Australia earlier in the year was also posted here. Abishe (talk) 04:28, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 20

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 20


(Posted) RD: Hal Bernson

Article:Hal Bernson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Los Angeles Daily News; Los Angeles Times; NBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 05:20, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shane Tuck

Article:Shane Tuck (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Yahoo, ABC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another Australian sporting suicide. There have been a few in recent years. DustyNail did a great job to expand this article Bumbubookworm (talk) 00:30, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Honours section needs cited. Otherwise ready. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:53, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ultimately this is fine. I had to do a little cross-referencing to parse that business with the 2nd-5th place finish in the B&F being named for other players. This is not in the references, which is sort of confusing. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:27, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 05:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Roy Den Hollander

Article: Roy Den Hollander (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New article. Independent notability in question. TJMSmith (talk) 19:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: This is a tangible, unusual and very compelling event, surrounding two prominent individuals. DÅRTHBØTTØ (TC) 19:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
DarthBotto Just FYI notability is not at issue for RD nominations. 331dot (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support well cited most everything that is in there JW 1961 Talk 21:06, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Does not seem to pass WP:CRIME or WP:1EVENT. Absent a single alleged criminal act, this person would not (and did not) have an article. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:44, 22 July 2020 (UTC) Withdrawing oppose, as this is moot with the AfD. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Feel free to WP:AFD then. Until then, notability is assumed by the existence of an article. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now I usually make the same "then AfD it" counter argument. However, the recent murder suspect just doesn't meet WP:SUSTAINED yet. Is there enough coverage before the deaths to disprove this? As this is ongoing, I dont think an AfD is worthwhile yet as 1) his notability might be established in a few more days 2) this might be notable as a murder article as opposed to a bio. Note that WP:ITNRD requires bios for RD.—Bagumba (talk) 08:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a bio and it's not listed for deletion so its notability is currently established. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:38, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just redirected it to Salas article precisely because of the notability issues. All relevant content is covered there. --Tone 08:48, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Some past sources identified below. I'm striking oppose.—Bagumba (talk) 09:09, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment People keep saying notability is not an issue for RDs. This is a misreading of the consensus, which is that the standard for RD is no higher than WP:GNG. The notion that reasonable objection to a subject's notability requires an AfD nom has never been agreed to. On the contrary - nominating an article at AfD while an article is nominated for RD allows a single editor to unilaterally torpedo the nom. This is clearly detrimental to the project, so per WP:IAR should never happen. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, misplaced AfDs can be speedily closed as keep, so that should not be too much of an issue. In any case, no AfD is needed here as a more elegant solution exists (a redirect). --Tone 11:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Indeed, suggesting articles are somehow immune from regular Wikipedia process simply because they are nominated at ITN is clearly inappropriate. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:21, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • And until last year, we had this message clearly on display in the RD template: Per this RFC and further discussion, the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post. Discussion should focus only on the quality of the article. See also WP:ITNRD.. Cheers. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:22, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      With due respect to Tone, and per WP:BRD, I have reverted the decision to redirect. The subject has plenty enough coverage to satisfy WP:GNG, and although per WP:NOPAGE and WP:BLP1E it might be appropriate to host coverage of him as a sub-topic of some other page, Esther Salas's article doesn't seem the best choice to me. Moving the article to a dedicated page about the attacks would be the better way to do that, if there were consensus to do so. Either way this should be settled at AFD, and until someone actually nominates it there, it is expressly still eligible for RD per Wikipedia:In_the_news#Recent_deaths_section. The existence of the Wikipedia article is sufficient unless it's been nominated for deletion. The message TRM mentions should be restored, because that was what was agreed at the RFC, not for us to have our own mini-analysis as to whether GNG is met. — Amakuru (talk) 12:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Amakuru: Well, the way I see the AfD process is that the nominator seeks deletion, not a redirect or merge (which is my preferred outcome here). But I don't mind starting the AfD, shall we? --Tone 12:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        @Tone: that's entirely up to you - I can't stop you starting the AFD Smiley.png. On balance my preference would be (1) retain the article as is, and (2) move it to a new title focusing on the attacks, in that order, with merging to Esther Salas and deletion as options I wouldn't be in favour of. But as far as I know AFDs are permitted to find consensus for any of those outcomes, so participants could all weigh in as they see fit. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:09, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Let's run it. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roy Den Hollander. --Tone 15:36, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          Alright, thanks. Well I guess that pauses this nom for the time being then. If the AFD happens to be closed as a speedy keep, then this might come back into play, otherwise I guess this is toast. — Amakuru (talk) 15:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes, if will look like a speedy keep, will be happy to withdraw the nomination myself. I consider this more of a procedural move because I am curious about the outcome. --Tone 15:50, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - all of the boxes at Wikipedia:In_the_news#Recent_deaths_section are met, including article quality, which conforms to the 2016 RFC on the rules for RD. And as mentioned above I've undone the bold decision to redirect the page. If someone later decides to nominate it for deletion then so be it, but for now this is good to go and this is not the forum to argue about GNG issues. — Amakuru (talk) 12:54, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article quality is fine. The subject meets GNG and was notable before the incident that led to the creation of the article.P-K3 (talk) 12:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – The good thing about obscure, insignificant RDs these days is they don't stay out there very long. Meh. – Sca (talk) 13:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once the AFD is closed (looks like snow) this should be posted immediately. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:11, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. I !voted above so I'm WP:INVOLVED. But now that the AFD has been closed as keep this doesn't seem controversial at all, as there's full consensus that quality requirements are met. He won't be up for very long, as he's second bottom already, but better late than never! — Amakuru (talk) 10:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Michael Brooks

Article: Michael Brooks (political commentator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A few outstanding CNs, but getting close. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:55, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: George Floyd protests

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: George Floyd protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: There have been no significant updates about protests added to the article in the last couple of weeks, nor to the supporting article, List of George Floyd protests in the United States, that could potentially be rolled up into the main. Stephen 23:27, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • OpposeVery much ongoing. I assume much of the updating has been to sub articles. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I had a discussion open for a month to amend the OG criteria to include "sub-articles" which got no traction. If you think a "sub-article" is getting sufficient updates then nominate it for the box instead. Right now there is no consideration for "sub-articles" it's completely made up. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support removal three days ago it would have been easy, but dispatching anonymous federal troops to arrest protestors is shocking. Still, the article itself has gotten stale and there wasn't much going on before the Portland debacle, and if a "sub-article" (whatever that is) has meaningful updates regarding Portland it may qualify on it's own for a blurb. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    LaserLegs, DHS is going into Chicago too. We can update the main article if that's what it'll take to keep it up, but this situation is escalating. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:02, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    See, Legs, I told you Crime in Chicago was the ongoing story of our times. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:14, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal while There are many protests that still ongoing, these protest is still needs to add to sub articles. Per Laserlegs stats. It may be information about how many to dispatched troops to blurb. 114.125.246.192 (talk) 23:46, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There have been updates to George Floyd protests#Activation of non-local forces. We can add more there. @Stephen and LaserLegs:Muboshgu (talk) 00:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per recent developments with federal forces. I might support iff that becomes a blurb, but this ought to stay on ITN. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 00:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment All these developments and yet there is no event in the article dated more recently than July 14, more than a week ago. Stephen 00:15, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support removal it's sort of dropped off the news. Developments such as federal involvement feel more suited to their own blurb than to ongoing. Banedon (talk) 01:08, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose. The protests are still going on very strong, across the entire country. I'm literally watching protests in St. Petersburg, Florida, Chicago, Austin, Texas, and Denver. And in Portland particularly they've been extremely violent. Last night, there were at least 2000 people protesting by the Federal Courthouse. They then gassed them (yet again), and much of downtown Portland was thick with tear gas. Perhaps renaming from "George Floyd Protests" may be appropriate, though. It's beyond that now. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 01:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose yet again. Clearly with the Portland situation very much in the news and threats this may go to Chicago and morph into something else, its nowhere close to done. Editors need to understand a topic that's been going on this long will have many sub-articles and the main topic article may not be updatded daily because the events are not sufficient to that top level one. --Masem (t) 03:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Masem: If the events are "not sufficient to that top level one" then they're not sufficient for ITN either. Sub-articles exist to cover topics in greater detail than will fit in one page, but the main article is still the top-level summary of all major goings on. So if current events aren't going in at the top then either this is no longer top-headline news, in which case it's removed, or the article is stale because it's not been updated, which also means it's removed, on quality grounds. So stop lecturing us on what you think "editors need to understand", and actually go and update the article if there are still significant things going on. — Amakuru (talk) 13:18, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not how summary style works for a topic that runs this long. There has been updates - the stuff happening in Portland - to the main article when they first started but given the weight to which all past events of the protests have been covered in that main article and how the sub-articles cover the details, it would be inappropriate and undue to push the day-to-day details of the Portland protests to the main article just to appear to satisfy this "main article is kept up to date" standard. At this point in time, the main article should not be expected to see day-to-day updates for any aspect because of that just being undue, only updates from slower shifts even though there can be day-by-day events covered in the sub-articles. --Masem (t) 13:35, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose A much stronger case for its removal could have been made even a few days ago, but we are now seeing front page coverage in both Canada and UK of developments in Chicago, Seattle, and Portland. A cursory glance at European and Asian news show this is still being covered actively. This should be reviewed in another 2 weeks if protests truly peter out. Albertaont (talk) 04:21, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Here in the UK I've not seen any coverage of the protests for several weeks, let alone on the newspaper front pages. Remember the major news websites tailor the stories shown on their home pages based on IP geolocation. Modest Genius talk 12:35, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We left the Hong Kong protests up for weeks after they finished in June. In the same instance, there is no indication that these protests have actually stopped, although the daily shootings and riotings have reduced.104.243.98.96 (talk) 04:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose George Floyd protests#Federal policing of protests, for one, is ongoing. Per WP:ITN, this is not older than the oldest blurb, which could warrant removal.—Bagumba (talk) 11:13, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Heck no. There's a story to be told here, not just in the protests but in the disproportionate federal response to it.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 12:31, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal unless the article is updated. If there's something newsworthy still happening, then update the article accordingly with citations so we can judge their impact. Otherwise there is no case to answer - articles must be continually being updated to stay in the "ongoing" slot, however many "oppose" !votes this nom gets. Much as the protests are probably still going on, and not much concrete action has been taken yet to rectify the issues being protested about, that's not the way ITN works. And much as I support the aims of the protests myself, we aren't here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. — Amakuru (talk) 12:54, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The Portland situation shows it is still ongoing. Subarticles are being updated.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:01, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's irrelevant. Unless the main article, the one linked from the main page, is being updated, it is not eligible for "ongoing". If you want to change the rules then propose that. Or else update the article itself with the Portland protests so we can judge their impact. — Amakuru (talk) 13:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking at Wikipedia:In_the_news#Ongoing_section, it doesn't actually say anything about when an ongoing item should be removed, only when it should be posted. That probably needs clarifying.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I guess that's a fair point. It has been suggested above that the HK protests remained up long after they'd actually stopped being in the news, so perhaps there is some uncertainty. Or else we just stick to our usual custom of just muddling through based on the consensus of those who show up at the discussion, as we usually do at ITN. Smiley.pngAmakuru (talk) 13:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not a fair point, it's pedantic beyond the point of usefulness. Anywhere discussing "adding to ongoing" can be reasonable read as "existing as a link in ongoing" without losing intent, meaning, or usefulness. Any article which would not qualify to be added to ongoing should not be kept at ongoing. --Jayron32 14:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not pedantic, we have myself, Masem and others arguing that updates to subarticles can be a substitute for updates to the main article, while others arguing it cannot. This needs clarifying. I find it odd that there is no mention of a removal process - does there always have to be a nomination, or can an admin remove obviously stale ones by themselves?-- P-K3 (talk) 14:54, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If subarticles (a fantastically imprecise word, I must say...) are being updated, then nominate those for swapping in. We do, from time to time, swap an ongoing link from one article to a more relevant article. That solves the problem admirably, and does not require someone to click through a random link in a large omnibus article to find relevant content. We're discussing this article, not an article I can find from a link in this article. If you intend for us to highlight text from a different article, nominate that instead. It's not useful for us to review every possible related article. Again, as a topic there is no problem with including this in ongoing. It's a real thing, that is really happening. Ongoing, however, is not "news you can search for outside of Wikipedia to find good information". It's "here's an article with updated information". That an article, with no good information, links to one that does, is irrelevant. If the information is not in the article under discussion, either a) add it, or b) change to the article we should be reviewing. --Jayron32 15:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    In this case, swapping to a subarticle like George Floyd protests in Portland won't solve the issue when the troops are deployed to Chicago, because then we'll have to add George Floyd protests in Chicago. Not to mention, Trump specifically namedropped New York, Detroit, Philadelphia, Oakland, and Baltimore as other targets for military occupation peacekeeping forces. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:22, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Davey2116 (talk) 14:10, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose leaning support within a day or so, if the article is not updated significantly. The last meaningful new events in the article itself date to July 14, which means that for about 1 week, no new significant events have been added to the article. It is hard to argue an article is adequately covering an ongoing event if the article hasn't covered any events which have happened more recently than that. If we keep this, someone who wants it kept should go in and update the article to reflect the events (i.e. the Portland information cited above from the past few days, which is not in the article as of me writing this). The "ongoing" section is not for "news you should be reading about outside of Wikipedia to find good information about". It is for "news you can find in Wikipedia". If you can't find the ongoing information in Wikipedia, then it shouldn't be highlighted in Ongoing. If it should be in the article, add it to the article before arguing it should be on the main page. --Jayron32 14:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Updated I added a sentence about the DHS plans to send 150 federal agents to Chicago. I included the date of the report, July 20, so now we can stop talking about this being stale just because the article isn't being updated with proseline. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:39, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If the federal troops involvement gets its own article, I would support putting that as a blurb. Currently, because there's been an update, oppose removal. Kingsif (talk) 16:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Kingsif, the article is Protecting American Communities Task Force. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:18, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The protests still make some significant news from time to time. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 16:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Masjid Mubarak Begum

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Masjid Mubarak Begum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The central dome of the 200 year old 19th century mosque Masjid Mubarak Begum in New Delhi collapses due to heavy rainfall. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A pity notable mosque in India Abishe (talk) 16:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on article size, notability (as an Indian I had never heard of this mosque till now) and the fact that many international news sources don't seem to have written on this. Maybe WP:SNOW? 45.251.33.54 (talk) 17:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's difficult to argue that partial damage to a building would warrant posting when that building didn't even get an article until it was damaged. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    On second glance, it does not appear to pass WP:NBUILD or WP:GNG. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:52, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Total collapse of a 200-year-old mosque, sure. Three domes down, aged 199, probably. A majority of 1822 domes, not likely. One measly third of a 197-year-old ornamental structure, no way! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:15, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, blaming it on the rain is hardly fair. The other two got the same amount, no problem, as did most buildings. I'd suspect a preexisting frailty, if anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2020 Assam floods

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Assam floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Floods in Assam, India, spread chaos amidst the COVID-19 Pandemic. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Floods in Assam, India, kill at least 85 people.
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Five more people died in the last 24 hours in Assam as floods spread chaos. These deaths were reported at Dhubri, Moregaon, Nagaon, Barpeta and Baksa district, according to Assam State Disaster Management Authority — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sitaphul (talkcontribs) 06:32, 20 July 2020‎ (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article is a stub, lacks crucial details, and is woefully outdated. The most recent source cited in the article is from 14 July. Furthermore, the blub, as currently proposed, is far too vague and sensationalistic.--Tdl1060 (talk) 08:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose stub and appears to have been ongoing for quite some time so would be a more likely "ongoing" candidate. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:38, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose When a natural disaster takes substantially longer to kill drastically fewer people than a homemade bus does a few towns over a short time ago, the affected geographical region is doing alright. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Checking news sources, this has to be an India-wide flood coverage. [18], CBS News (notably "In the wider region, including eastern India, Nepal, and Bangladesh, this year's monsoon rains and flooding have killed more than 200 people and displaced 4 million. That toll includes 67 deaths and 2.6 million people who have been displaced in Bangladesh." And this is definitely better as ongoing at this point. --Masem (t) 21:36, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • And to be clear, even with a good article, this cannot be merged with the China flooding ongoing, they are in completely distinct regions (not like border neighboring areas). --Masem (t) 21:38, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Proposed an alt blurb which is more in-line with standard ITN posts. NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:24, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb depending on whether it's "over", Ongoing doesn't seem too appropriate. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 19:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ruth Lewis

Article: Ruth Lewis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pakistan Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pakistani nun who worked with mentally disabled children, looks to be short but cited JW 1961 Talk 09:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 19

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 19


(Posted) RD: Jack McIlhargey

Article:Jack McIlhargey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):NHL; CBC News / Canadian Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on July 19, but only reported on July 20. Bloom6132 (talk) 03:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Emirates Mars Mission launched

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Emirates Mars Mission (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The United Arab Emirates launches its first interplanetary mission to Mars. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Looking at List_of_Solar_System_probes UAE seems to be only the seventh entity after USA, USSR, EU, Japan, China, and India to send an interplanetary probe that is not piggybacked on someone else's spacecraft. See original post below for a few people supporting at launch, some at arrival. It is unusual for a new space agency to launch a probe leaving Earth's gravitational well. It entered orbit a few minutes ago, and should leave low Earth orbit in a few hours. 205.175.106.45 (talk) 22:07, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per the nom below. Kingsif (talk) 23:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "not piggybacked on someone else's spacecraft" but it did piggyback on someone else's rocket, and it was built by Americans in the US. I'll admit ignorance of the field, but this doesn't really strike me as a indigenous launch. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:37, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support & Comment There seems to have been consensus to post AFTER launch occurred, per original nom. Sorry to GCG, but it was built by emirates, albeit with help from American universities.104.243.98.96 (talk) 01:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This is just not true - it was built by LASP, using their people. The UAE people "helped" but were really there to learn. UAE deliberately choose to leverage existing technology and experienced foreign engineers rather than homegrow so they could advance their program faster [19]. It makes a lot of sense, but it does make this launch less substantial as a native accomplishment. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for landing arrival Hardly a mission to Mars if you don't reach Mars, and right now, Dubai hasn't. Seeing a spacecraft leave Earth is mundane now, cool fifty years ago. Not sure "interplanetary" needs saying. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:17, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Minor point: it's an orbiter, not a lander. It still has to fire its engines to enter that orbit when it gets to Mars, but that's far less technically challenging than landing on the surface. Modest Genius talk 12:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's hardly minor, I'd have waited forever! Thanks for the tip. I'll try to watch the skies more closely in the future, at least before actively judging the inhabitants and norms. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:03, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The Chinese spacecraft to Mars is supposed to launch in 3 days (orbiter/lander/rover), and then the US spacecraft is supposed to launch 1 week later. The fact that there will be 3 spacecraft from 3 countries launching towards Mars around the same time will definitely be ITN, we should do a short blurb for UAE which will then be modified to include the chinese and american spacecrafts when they launch.104.243.98.96 (talk) 03:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posting launch and will support posting arrival (successful or, ʾilahat forbid, unsuccessful). The other nations listed at timeline of first orbital launches by country launched missions on home-grown rockets, from "home", and carrying loads developed at home. This is not on par. In Wikipedia time, 7 months is not too long a wait. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 04:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until it arrives at Mars, per WP:ITNR and the previous nomination just a few days ago. Modest Genius talk 12:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Mars and Earth are aligned for Hohmann transfers and so, as said above, there are multiple missions launching now -- UAE/Japan, China and the US (the EU mission is delayed). A combined or ongoing entry would therefore be appropriate. See C Net and Popular Science. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as noted above, launches into space are now commonplace, actually succeeding in mission objectives less so. Post it when it gets there. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:33, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Coffee&Crumbs. The significance of this event appears to be overstated, as the spacecraft was primarily designed in the US and was launched from Japan. The UAE is really just organising and funding the thing. If it reaches Mars, then post that per usual practice. — Amakuru (talk) 12:58, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per previous two. It ain't over. – Sca (talk) 13:01, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted ongoing) 2020 China floods

Article:2020 China floods (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s):AP, Reuters (via Yahoo), BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: " the end of June flooding had displaced 744,000 people across 26 provinces with 81 people missing or dead.[2] In early July, the South China Morning Post reported that about 20 million residents had been affected and at least 121 people were dead or missing.[8] As of 13 July, floods have affected 37.89 million people in 27 provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities, 141 people are dead or missing, and 28,000 houses have collapsed.[5] The Ministry of Water Resources said that a total of 443 rivers nationwide have been flooded, with 33 of them swelling to the highest levels ever recorded.[9] The 2020 China floods have described as the worst since at least 1998" This is a major event affecting the world's most populous country, deserves to be in ITN. Sheila1988 (talk) 21:25, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support and the only thing on the article quality would be the excessive amount of proseline in a few sections, but otherwise sourced and ready. --Masem (t) 22:03, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support important and satis; proseline is suboptimal but not disqualifying. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 00:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 11:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --Tone 11:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) (Stale) Tolulope Arotile

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Tolulope Arotile (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Tolulope Arotile, first female Nigerian combat pilot. (Post)
News source(s): Akinpelu, Yusuf (July 16, 2020). "OBITUARY: Tolulope Arotile: Nigeria's first female combat helicopter pilot dies in accident". Premium Times. Kingsley, Omonobi. "How NAF's first female combat helicopter pilot died in accident". The Vanguard. Retrieved 16 July 2020.
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: New article. Pending AFD, which should be resolved by a Speedy Keep. 7&6=thirteen () 12:57, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per criteria: Articles that are subject to serious issues, as indicated by 'orange'- or 'red'-level tags at either the article level or within any section, may not be accepted for an emboldened link. ——Serial 14:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stale, as she died on the 12th and the oldest RD at the moment is from the 15th. Also, AfD does not help, though it will likely result in keep. I suggest the DYK approach here, the article is long enough and new enough. --Tone 16:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Arguably, death was on the 14th BBC) but with reporting the day after , the 14th would be considered the post date and thus this remains stale. --Masem (t) 16:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 18

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 18


(Closed) Nantes Cathedral

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article:Nantes Cathedral (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Nantes Cathedral (pictured), France, is damaged by fire in a suspected case of arson. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Arson destroys an organ in Nantes Cathedral.
News source(s):BBC News Online
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Article tagged for needing more references. Mjroots (talk) 12:36, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Lacks general significance. – Sca (talk) 13:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lack of general significance a fire of a cathedral and its suspected criminal origin? Come on!
Preceding comment posted by Alsoriano97. – Sca (talk)
Lacks broader significance; appears to be a parochial event. – Sca (talk) 16:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Connecting it to others ITN already ignored decreases significance by association, though. Luckily for you, the "wave" is said to exist in the US, a whole ocean away. This doesn't have to be washed out with those. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:26, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
None of these other incidents occured in a 15th century cathedral, and most were not arson, so I would never expect any of these other incidents to be considered by ITN. I'm sure none of these incidents are even connected. My comment about the recent wave was merely in response to your citing a lack of connection to the early Norwegian black metal scene as a basis for opposing.--Tdl1060 (talk) 23:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, OK. I misread that this act gets its significance as another deliberate attack on a Catholic church. If someone commits arson in a 15th-century stone temple in North America, that would certainly be huge, regardless of denomination. But in Europe, even 300-year-old organs aren't so rare. If a representative of any musical genre opposed to church music is arrested, I'll reconsider, even someone who just prefers Anglican or Orthodox tunes. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:25, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not major damage, not the Notre Dame. Kingsif (talk) 05:01, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Anti-terrorism act of 2020

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Anti-Terrorism Act of 2020 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In the Philippines, the controversial anti-terror law takes into effect. (Post)
News source(s): (Rappler)
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: It was notable because of protests and condemnation, even Greta Thurnberg and Taylor Swift oppose this. AngelesYabok (talk)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Haruma Miura

Article: Haruma Miura (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Japanese actor, filmography and needs refs. PotentPotables (talk) 12:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose for now. This article has been greatly improved since nom, but there is still too much unreferenced in the filmography and accolades sections.--Tdl1060 (talk) 07:16, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Striking my previous opposition. Support now that the problems with referencing have been taken care of. Kudos to User:Lullabying for their hard work..--Tdl1060 (talk) 09:50, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I spent the last two days searching for references and rewriting this article completely; I also removed non-notable roles that couldn't be verified anyway. @The Rambling Man: and @Kingsif:, please feel free to reconsider. lullabying (talk) 09:56, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya

Article:Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):TASS (in Russian), RT, Fox News, BBC, Adelaidenow
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Olympian and junior world champion Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:06, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Notability: 2017 World Junior champion, 2017 Junior Grand Prix Final champion, 2016 and 2018 Australian national champion. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 09:15, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The article is of good quality and has been updated to the past tense. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 09:34, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
UnladenSwallow Notability is not at issue for RD nominations, as every person with an article is presumed notable enough for RD. This discussion is only to evaluate article quality/updates. 331dot (talk) 09:18, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: Thank you. I have updated my comment. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 09:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Preceding comment the only post from this IP address. – Sca (talk)
  • Support Article is well written and there don't appear to be any remaining problems with referencing.--Tdl1060 (talk) 04:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Article seems in excellent shape. The second death to hit the Australian Olympic community this month adds to its notability. --Light show (talk) 06:41, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Referencing issues dealt with. MurielMary (talk) 09:34, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RDAmakuru (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Barry Jarman

Article: Barry Jarman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-18/former-australian-test-cricket-captain-barry-jarman-dies/11903316?section=sport
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian Test cricketer and International Cricket Council (ICC) Match Referee. HiLo48 (talk) 04:55, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Seeking attention Considerable work has been done to this article since the preceding comment. HiLo48 (talk) 22:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Much improved, but there remain several unreferenced statements. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:57, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then please stick some cn tags in there to help those of us who care. HiLo48 (talk) 00:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Now referenced. Seems enough? JennyOz (talk) 07:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 08:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 17

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 17


(Posted) RD: Zizi Jeanmaire

Article: Zizi Jeanmaire (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Icon in ballet and revue, also Hollywood films. Can't believe there wasn't more article. Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed)(Blurb pulled) RD/blurb: John Lewis

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:John Lewis (civil rights leader) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:American civil rights leader and congressman John Lewis dies at the age of 80. (Post)
News source(s):USA Today, Atl. J-C, NPR, BBC, Guardian
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Not many sources yet, but this is confirmed by his staff so it's still worth checking into. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:31, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the only problem with the article is one citation needed tag in the SNCC Chairmanship section, but that can be easily fixed. To think that only six days ago he had a false death report. - Jon698 talk 3:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Also the obvious tense problems that come with death. --Masem (t) 03:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • However, I oppose blurb here. The death was not a surprise (he said since Dec he was on such a watch), and while an important civil rights figure, he does not carry the type of weight in the overall field of politics that would make him one of the top of the field. We may be a bit sensative to civil rights issues at the current time to think this might be important, but we to step back and recognize he was beloved, but that's not the same as top of field --Masem (t) 12:45, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support So sad. Article is pretty good; the forthcoming obits should be able to patch the few missing cites. Would support blurb too. Davey2116 (talk) 03:45, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Are we sure that it is true this time? He just released a press release earlier today according to hit site https://johnlewis.house.gov/, none of the sources say where they got these reports, and he was wrongly reported dead last week. All sounds fishy to me. 131.93.247.66 (talk) 03:55, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, his office and other sources are all confirming. And yes, he just has a PR out today, which is why this was sudden. --Masem (t) 03:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • He was reportedly in hospice for quite a while, so I don't think the previous reports were pulled out of someone's behind as much as they just jumped the gun. Nohomersryan (talk) 04:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Right now I think the tense of his article has been updated by me and a few other people. - Jon698 talk 4:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Support, and he and C. T. Vivian should go on together and aside each other. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Multiple sources are now confirming this, including CNN, Fox, NYT, WaPo, and many others. I only see one CN tag at this time, I'm sure we can address that promptly. KConWiki (talk) 04:41, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there's not doubt he's dead, but several uncited claims in the article means it's not ready for posting. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Death is confirmed, and article is "of sufficient quality". -DePiep (talk) 09:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose if you consider unreferenced paragraphs and quotes to be of "sufficient quality" then yes. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:41, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    None now remain. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support blurb He helped found the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Commission (SNCC) and served as its chair during the height of the Civil Rights Movement. Spoke at the March on Washington, was the last of the "big six" Civil Rights Leaders alive. Is known for marching and facing a beating at Selma, activism that led to the Voting Rights Act of 1965. As a member of Congress, he was a major force responsible for the National Museum of African American History and Culture. -TenorTwelve (talk) 09:32, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, once fully referenced. Only five two cn tags now remaining, none controversial. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
    [reply]
  • Support with blurb, now fully referenced. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support blurb He was one of the "Big Six" leaders of groups who organized the 1963 March on Washington, played many key roles in the Civil Rights Movement. AbDaryaee (talk) 10:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD onlyBrigade Piron (talk) 10:40, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looks good. Alanscottwalker (talk) 10:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD once the issues are resolved. Oppose blurb. An important figure in the civil rights movement no doubt, but not at the level of worldwide transformative that we blurb for. — Amakuru (talk) 11:16, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only Looks ready. P-K3 (talk) 11:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support full blurb but RD is better than nothing. Something like "American civil rights movement leader Rep. John Lewis dies at the age of 80" or the like? Short and simple? SnowFire (talk) 12:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support full blurb Looks will referenced. KittenKlub (talk) 12:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb – Together with Vivian, this is worthy of a blurb. I suggest:
Congressman John Lewis and minister C. T. Vivian, Freedom Riders and leaders of the civil rights movement in the United States, die at the age of 80 and 95, respectively.
I also created File:John Lewis and C.T. Vivian.jpg. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:25, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support this, an accurate and timely blurb. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:34, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support that, also. ([The US loses two icons of the civil rights movement in one day])Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While there is a certain romanticism to the coincidence, I don't think it reflects well on us to dabble in such sentimentality (shades of Fisher/Reynolds). GreatCaesarsGhost 13:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Understanding that Lewis' was not just someone who made his mark 50 years ago and continued to live. He was a major world leader in the field of Civil Rights advocacy for close to sixty years. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only – oppose blurb. Man dies at age 80 after eight-month battle with cancer. (His notability was mainly historical.)Sca (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • He was still in Congress when he died so "mainly historical" is inaccurate. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Although I support a blurb, even dying in office as a member of congress doesn't make someone notable enough to be on the front page. Otherwise we'd be constantly listing members of legislative assemblies who have died in office. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 02:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted RD, the article is in a good shape. I don't yet see a consensus for a blurb. --Tone 14:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per rationale from AbDaryaee. Subject is of importance. PCN02WPS (talk contribs) 16:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support blurb this does not need further explanation. A major figure in the Civil Rights movement and a man who truly shaped American history for the better Zingarese talk · contribs 17:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb [24]Muboshgu (talk) 17:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb per Coffeeandcrumbs --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 18:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb as he ain't getting a state funeral. Invisible Lad (talk) 18:59, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment we've done very well recently, resisting the temptation to blurb deaths just because the people concerned were famous and/or involved with great things. Kirk Douglas, Vera Lynn, Daniel arap Moi, all major figures (and I initially posted Moi, a two decades leader of East Africa's largest economy, but the community decided be didn't reach the threshold which is fine but tells us clearly where the benchmark lies). Lewis was a US civil rights hero, and it's right to honour him, but for all that he's still just one hero amongst many, not the single transforming Mandela, Thatcher or indeed the Martin Luther King which we would post without hesitation. — Amakuru (talk) 19:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fully agree with this comment; I didn't nominate this as a blurb for pretty much this exact reason.Nohomersryan (talk) 20:34, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • For the love of all that is holy, please stop including Thatcher in such high company. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:38, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Agreed. Although to be fair, a Western state leader whose death provoked spontaneous street parties in their own country was always going to get a blurb. Black Kite (talk) 22:46, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Yeah, I'm not saying I liked Thatcher, or that she was the Mandela of 1980s Britain or anything. But this isn't supposed to be a popularity contest! — Amakuru (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        If we're not aiming for popularity, I'll admit that as a white Canadian child of the '80s, even Nelson Mandela has never seemed particularly amazing to me. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. per Amakuru. Awsomaw (talk) 22:48, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support C&C's alt blurb. -- Tavix (talk) 02:39, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upgraded to blurb. Numerically, it's close but support for a blurb is slowly but surely ahead. None of the arguments on either side have stuck out to me as particularly good or bad, so we are going with the clear numerical majority. Not enough people have commented on the double blurb with C. T. Vivian, so leaving him off for now. -- King of ♥ 03:32, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If we're doing a blurb include Vivian as well they both seem notable enough. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb He was a Freedom rider (which the blurb doesn't even mention), but this doesn't rise to the level of well, Mandela, a comparative figure. He wasn't Mandela, and is basically unknown outside of the US. Even I first thought of the founder of the department store when I first read the name. I might give a blurb weak support if it mentions Vivian and the Freedom Riders, but neither death was unusual and they weren't international figures. Kingsif (talk) 04:54, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Even as guy who didn't think Mandela and Thatcher deserved blurbs (retired people always die at the end), they were both way bigger than Lewis in political change, per their articles. Nothing weird about cancer at 80. Congresspeople aren't that crucial, outside their district, so incumbency at death means little (unless one pulls a Mauril Belanger, getting work done from the grave). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Octogenarian whose primary notability was six decades in the past dies of natural causes" is unlikely to be one of the half-dozen or so most significant deaths of 2020. Pull. —Cryptic 06:11, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per Amakuru, among others. Usedtobecool ☎️ 06:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb Civil rights is a very broad category and this person doesn't seem to fit there very high given that the he's never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize or the Sakharov Prize. By the way, I don't know how this did get a blurb when there are more oppose votes.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:09, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per Kingsif. Not an international figure.--Tdl1060 (talk) 07:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb per Amakuru. The death did not even happen under controversial circumstances. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 07:24, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per Amakuru. Come on, this is getting silly now. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:11, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulled. The consensus seems clear after posting(and IMO perhaps even before) that this should not be blurbed, so I am pulling it. 331dot (talk) 08:16, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per above. RD is fine. -Ad Orientem (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment However you feel about this particular nom, to post and then pull such a significant figure in the days after his death is unseemly. The comments in this nom are nauseating (many are dead wrong - "primary notability was six decades in the past"?!). This seems to keep happening - the best solution clearly is to just stop having blurbs. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:25, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lewis is arguably better known today than he was 20 years ago, due to his March comics - which are widely used in classrooms. Many kids learn about Lewis in school. Zagalejo^^^ 13:30, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-pulling comment – While I opposed the blurb above (and haven't changed my opinion), I agree that pulling this now is amateurish and potentially offensive to interested readers. Gauche to say the least. – Sca (talk) 13:21, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: J. I. Packer

Article: J. I. Packer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ChristianityToday
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: prominent Anglican evangelical theologian Awsomaw (talk) 02:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose much of it is unreferenced. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I've done some work in the article. It should be good to go now.? Awsomaw (talk) 13:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not going to oppose this. I was just going to ignore it, but then everyone else did as well, and I must take their silence to be a choice like mine. I feel the article is too dependent on sources that do not appear to be reliable and independent of the subject. The Gospel Coalition is used for many facts and looks too close to the subject (WP:RSN has not weighed in). Many other citations are either primary or almost primary. I personally don't think it demonstrates the quality we want to show on the main page, but this is not a !vote. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:08, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GreatCaesarsGhost: That's an interesting point. Admittedly, some sources are closely connected (Regents College particularly). I would be helpful if I had print biographies of Packer; there's at least three of them out there. Note that TheGospelCoalition source is really just pulling from the print sources, and the ChristianityToday source is written by one of his past biographers. WORLD is an independent conservative Christian magazine. So out of the four citations that I used to clean up the article, I can concede that RegentsCollege is definitely not independent (he taught there), but confirms some of the information on the subject. The other three are sources that are within his area of notability, so you can draw some sort of connection there, but none of the three are officially affiliated with him or his church (Anglican). Let me know what you think, Awsomaw (talk) 01:46, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I appreciate your efforts. I'll go ahead and Support and let the admin make the call. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 16:10, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Zenon Grocholewski

Article:Zenon Grocholewski (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Catholic News Agency; Vatican News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 23:59, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I’ve done most of the updating and cleanup, but the quality remains questionable. Note especially how 15 years as prefect are covered with a poorly written paragraph about a single statement; his academic career is covered with a generic paragraph that reads like boilerplate. See also the problematic sourcing for his academic career. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 11:33, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stale Stephen 23:20, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: C. T. Vivian

Article: C. T. Vivian (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs some work. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:27, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Roshni Nadar

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Roshni Nadar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Roshni Nadar becames the new HCL Tech chairperson Technologies and the first women to lead a listed IT company in India. (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg Quint
Credits:
Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Leaning toward an oppose as questioning the lasting impact of this, but if the article were expanded to show how this were notable/reactions/etc., I could be convinced otherwise. SpencerT•C 19:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentHCL Technologies is a very sizeable enterprise, but Ms. Roshni Nadar's article at 285 words seems rather thin. Agree with Spencer re impact. – Sca (talk) 19:57, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentative oppose This might be better for DYK, but I might be able to be swayed if this becomes more significant, per Spencer. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 04:05, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Too far narrow of a "bin" here. Why an IT company and not any listed company (which I presume has long since happened)? --Masem (t) 04:11, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) Real Madrid win La Liga

Articles:Real Madrid C.F. (talk · history · tag) and La Liga (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:In association football, Real Madrid win their 34th La Liga title. (Post)
News source(s):BBCInstagram
Credits:

One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

139.192.206.157 (talk) 10:16, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose basically no prose summary of the season which is usually the bare minimum requirement. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:20, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose same, and because someone always says prose is not needed - WP:NOTSTATS. GreatCaesarsGhost 11:32, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per TRM – and because article (& notes) at roughly 14,000 words is grossly overweight, a case of fandom gone wild. – Sca (talk) 13:52, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now per above as there is insufficient prose and the infobox at 2019–20 La Liga, the only article that should be in this nom IMO, indicates that it is over a month out of date. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2020 Iranian Explosions

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Iran explosions (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A series of explosions at Iranian nuclear, military, and industrial facilities kill at least 21 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: A series of explosions of unknown origins at Iranian nuclear, military, and industrial facilities kill at least 21 people.
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Potentially interesting item for ITN. NorthernFalcon (talk) 04:24, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - We need sources that link every explosion listed to one another. Otherwise, this reads like WP:SYNTH. Also, citation is needed for the amount of non-fatal injuries. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 04:43, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Using the NYTimes article [25] we have no idea these are tied together yet, so it would be improper to treat it that way. It is not like floods that we can directly point to weather as a cause. --Masem (t) 05:12, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    NYT behind fire wall. This one from CNN [26] seems to draw a connection. GreatCaesarsGhost 02:45, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I once saw CNN seem to draw a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. And people who voted Republican last time to far worse things. It has also linked the same household products to both sides of the "War on Cancer", many times over. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:13, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right the Bush administration did fabricate a connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11 and CNN did report that fabricated connection. Let me know when CNN publishes obviously doctors photos of armed militants at otherwise peaceful protests. LOL. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:35, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't mean this in a partisan or zero-sum way. All ratings-driven, ad-friendly television is built on the same fundamental capitalistic lie. And all administrations except Carter's have made the post-Hiroshima world a worse place overall; hate the game, not the players! InedibleHulk (talk) 18:46, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/Wait, per Masem. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:05, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Way too much speculation, contradictory claims by anonymous sources and general SYNTH (per Nice4What & Masem) in that article for my comfort level. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:34, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 16

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 16


(Stale) RD: Neela Satyanarayanan

Article: Neela Satyanarayanan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Mumbai Mirror
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: COVID-19 related TJMSmith (talk) 05:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Arthur J. Samberg

Article: Arthur J. Samberg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times via Legacy.com
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: News of his death only appeared on July 16 --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 04:05, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – just added one ref to verify his education, but other than that, looks like it meets the criteria. —Bloom6132 (talk) 09:11, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment has been ready for 12 hours. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:08, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Was searching and was unable to find news coverage for the death outside of a the (presumably self-published) obituary. Is that typical for RD? SpencerT•C 21:36, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Fair point, not in the news. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:59, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Looks fine. – Ammarpad (talk) 03:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    We need "reliably sourced confirmation of their death." I'm weak oppose on if a purchased obit fulfills this requirement. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:07, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose per above; needs to actually be in the news. P-K3 (talk) 23:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would even go as far to beg the question whether there's any notability here. The company he ran may be, but not him. The sources that seem to be about him are weak RSs or primary, which is not a good starting point. --Masem (t) 05:42, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tony Taylor (baseball)

Article:Tony Taylor (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; The Philadelphia Inquirer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 20:34, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) New Gabonese Prime Minister

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Rose Christiane Raponda (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Rose Christiane Raponda becomes Prime Minister of Gabon. (Post)
News source(s):Gabon Media Time (in French), Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Tyseria (talk) 15:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment She is the first woman to become Prime Minister of Gabon. NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, but it should be noted that there have only been 11 before her and the post did not even exist for 15 years of the country's post-independence history. The six who have served under the incumbent president have tended to last only about two years. The swinging-door nature of the office is all the more remarkable given that Gabon is one of the continent's last old-style dictatorships! —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:03, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose pending expansion. Article consists of about 6 lines of text. Needs some serious expansion before it's main page ready. Expand it to the depth of coverage one would expect for a national leader, and it would be fine to post. --Jayron32 17:55, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The PM of Gabon serves at the pleasure of the President, who is head of government, so I'm not sure how significant this appointment is. 331dot (talk) 18:01, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: She is merely an appointee of Ali Bongo whose own inevitable ousting will definitely merit a WP:ITN entry. —Brigade Piron (talk) 18:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Currently updating the article. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 19:21, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - The Gabonese government has seen many shuffles since the January 2019 coup attempt, but what makes this notable is her being the first woman to hold this position and that she replaced the coup-appointed PM. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 19:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Unsee on major RS sites except the Guardian, so this doesn't seem to be much in the news. Significance questionable. – Sca (talk) 22:12, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not the head of government, so not particularly notable. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 02:06, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 15

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 15


(Posted) RD: Kieran O'Connor

Article:Kieran O'Connor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The Irish Times; RTÉ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 11:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Looks ok.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well referenced article JW 1961 Talk 13:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Soft oppose. One para needs sourcing, but the rest of the article is fine. - SchroCat (talk) 05:42, 17 July 2020 (UTC) Good to go - SchroCat (talk) 06:38, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Reposted) Twitter Bitcoin scam

Article:2020 Twitter Bitcoin scam (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Several significant Twitter accounts have been compromised to promote a Bitcoin scam. (Post)
Alternative blurb:A security breach in an administrative interface used by Twitter employees led to many prominent accounts tweeting a bitcoin scam.
Alternative blurb II:Twitter administrative tools are breached and used to compromise several significant accounts for a bitcoin scam.
News source(s):Forbes, Newsweek, CNBC, The Verge
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Ongoing. Major accounts such as Elon Musk's, Bill Gate's, Barack Obama's, Joe Biden's and Apple's have been hacked and affected. Jamez42 (talk) 22:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support once the article has been further developed, it is a bit too short right now but is quickly being expanded. Buttons0603 (talk) 23:02, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as article creator - being described as "the worst hack of a major social media platform yet" is clearly quite significant. Naypta✉ talk page 23:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support lots of high profile people's twitter accounts being compromised to promote a bitcoin scam is something which probably should make the news. The article is being expanded quickly, so should cover most of the incident soon, if not now. Dreamy Jazz talk to me my contributions 23:09, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support big enough news; article covers the basics. Natureium (talk) 23:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ongoing, Wait on the story but general support. I am not downplaying how big this is, but we do want to have an idea of its size, # of accounts hacked, as there have been hacks in the 100s of millions, and that's not yet apparent here, it doesn't seem as big if it was only after the most influential accounts. (eg saying "the worst hack of a major social media platform" is extreme hyperhole right now given known hacks of 3B accounts at Yahoo!) I oppose the ongoing because it appears the hack is under control for the time being, and this is certainly not like Wannacry where it is a computer virus or worm that is propagating the attack and thus would take time for it to be resolved and stop the spread; it is all at Twitter's systems, so this is a singular event, not an ongoing one. --Masem (t) 23:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    To be fair, "worst" is a value judgement; personally speaking, I'd argue it is potentially worse than a hack of 3B accounts, because whilst that might be linked to poor security precautions on the part of the people who were hacked, this looks like it's shaping up to be a platform compromise rather than an account-specific compromise. (I don't know if that was the case with Yahoo too, to be fair.) Naypta✉ talk page 23:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ongoing is a non-starter, but reluctant support in principle I'm highly reluctant to post Twitter stuff here, but this seems to have crossed the social media/mainstream media barrier. I don't think any resultant investigation is ongoing-worthy, but maybe we can post convictions, if any. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 00:02, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb as John M W says, this is not an ongoing event - but a major cybersecurity scam that appears to have compromised Obama's Twitter? Good for a blurb. Article currently looks good enough. Kingsif (talk) 00:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. -- King of ♥ 00:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a hack of a social media platform hardly seems so newsworthy to support its inclusion here, regardless of whose account was hacked. Ljgua124 (talk) 02:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post Posting Support - You do understand that so many accounts got hacked, don't you? Former POTUS and future (hopefully) POTUS, richest guy in the world, largest tech company by value, and many other accounts! This is definitely serious. 45.251.33.179 (talk) 03:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I understand, it's a financial scam which made use of Twitter employee privileges, and in which posts were removed in a matter of minutes. I concur with Brigade Piron – "its real-world and long-term effects are likely to be minimal". Ljgua124 (talk) 05:25, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post posting support Significant cybercrime news and good to see news other than the usual disasters, conflicts or politics. Also highlights growing cryptocurrency fraud on which Wikipedia itself has had to take significant measures, WP:GS/Crypto. Gotitbro (talk) 05:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Better blurb needed. If the story here is the hacking of the accounts, then the blurb should focus on that. Mentioning bitcoin and scams tells me nothing about what this story is. In fact I came here to oppose, because a "bitcoin scam" does not sound significant to me. But the compromising of large numbers of twitter accounts is likely a major story. — Amakuru (talk) 07:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not so much as those high profile Twitter accounts are compromised as staff accounts/login are compromised which allow the hacker to make post appears on the high profile accounts. Current wording at least to me implies the accounts were individually and seperately hacked. -- KTC (talk) 09:00, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Rushing to post details of a hack in this way is debatable. The article in question is open to anyone to edit – even IP editors – and that includes the hackers, who could use it to sow further confusion. The article has, at various times, contained an image of one of the fraudulent tweets, including details of the bitcoin account. Topics of this sort should go through some security screening, rather then being broadcast indiscriminately and in haste, to make sure that we don't become part of the problem. We're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a live feed, like Twitter. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:04, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson: There's currently a discussion on the article's talk page about the inclusion of the Bitcoin wallet - there is an argument (which I advance) that keeping it is useful for academic purposes. Very little vandalism has been seen on the article, and it's consistent with our principles that unless there was a significant issue, it would be open to anyone to edit. "Go[ing] through some security screening" is against the fundamental principles of Wikipedia - an encyclopedia that anyone can edit with well-sourced content. Naypta✉ talk page 09:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Our terms of use forbid "Posting or distributing content that contains any viruses, malware, worms, Trojan horses, malicious code, or other device that could harm our technical infrastructure or system or that of our users;" Redistributing fraudulent postings seems contrary to this warning. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:32, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson: A Bitcoin wallet address is a number, it is not executable code. It does not fall into the criteria of contains any viruses, malware, worms, Trojan horses, malicious code, or other device that could harm our technical infrastructure or system or that of our users. Naypta✉ talk page 09:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The account number is a "device" that could "harm" "our users". Presumably that's why it has been suppressed by editors like Masem. But there has been edit-warring about this. The article is still not protected in any way and so is wide open. The pandemic should have taught people something about the ease with which a virus can spread and cause chaos. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson: The account number is not a "device", it's a number, and it cannot harm the technical infrastructure or system of Wikipedia users - again, it's a number. There isn't an opportunity to spread a virus using it. Whether it could potentially harm users in other ways is a subject for debate, but we already have policy on this, and it's WP:NOTCENSORED. To my knowledge, there has been no edit warring about this, either - just people following BRD - and there's no cause for page protection, because there is no widespread vandalism, and protection is not pre-emptive. Either way, this isn't the place for this discussion - it belongs on the talk page. Naypta✉ talk page 10:03, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Anything may be expressed as a number – see Gödel numbering. Saying that it's just a number is therefore meaningless. The issue is what may be done with the information. I would have thought it was common sense that we shouldn't be broadcasting information like bank account numbers. If the article is in hands of editors who think otherwise, it should be pulled until we can be sure of its quality and safety. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:17, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Logic here, and Anything may be expressed as a number – see Gödel numbering seems rather flawed. If I create a function that maps every word in the dictionary to something malicious, can I now claim that Wikipedia should be taken down, as everything on here is now malicious? ProcFunc has a ring to it, I must say. A bitcoin address isn't malicious, it isn't a virus. If someone is silly enough to send money to an address listed on an article about a scam, that's on them. We document the steps for hanging, weighing the benefit of the information as more important than the risk that a small percent might use it as a guide on how to hang. We write LD50s for drugs, with the risk that some drug users might treat it as a how to guide for how far they can go and end up ODing. Censorship because an address is 'malicious' is absurd, it's just another Bitcoin address, nothing technically special about it, and we can expect editors don't send money to it. Respectfully, I can't understand your reasoning. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose: I don't see what is particularly newsworthy about this. Yes, it is an impressively large piece of hacking but its real-world and long-term effects are likely to be minimal. —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose. A scam that nets $100,000 is hardly Earth-shattering news. Using celebrity Twitter accounts to spread it (rather than e.g. emails or WhatsApp) makes the event more visible, but this is hardly going to have long-term encyclopaedic value. Would make a decent DYK, but is extremely underwhelming as an ITN blurb. I also think it needed more than 90 minutes of discussion before posting. Modest Geniustalk 11:32, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The importance of it is not the scam, but the fact that the backend of a Silicon Valley giant was compromised. That almost never happens. -- King of ♥ 12:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Security flaws in software or web services are not rare, even those written by large companies. The effects of this one seem less substantial than e.g. password or credit card leaks, which occur frequently. Modest Geniustalk 15:15, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Modest Genius: If credit card information linked to one of the world's most prominent websites was breached, that would be significant, too, and I'd argue warrant an ITN post. Amazon, for instance, having credit card information breached from its users, would be of huge consequence to millions of people. Naypta✉ talk page 16:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Whilst the specific combination of Amazon and millions of credit cards hasn't happened recently, see List of data breaches for the sheer number of these that occur, many involving larger companies than Twitter and far more users. Modest Genius talk 16:24, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose wow, less than two hours from nom to post! Per Modest Genius, this is hardly worth worrying about for its long-term impact. It's tabloid fodder, WP:TOP25 would no doubt nom it up, as would another part of the main page, but it's not ITN material. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @The Rambling Man: A major security breach of one of the most popular social networking services in the world, as it has now been confirmed to be, is definitely not "tabloid fodder" - and, indeed, worldwide news organisations agree with the assessment that it is not, if you look at what the headlines are like. Naypta✉ talk page 15:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulled for the time being as there is a substantial opposition to the posting. Let's first discuss here what is the proper way to continue. --Tone 12:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For future reference, is there any guidance on length of time from nom to posting? I can see why the United States going to war with China could be posted in 90 minutes but it's pretty odd in any other context. It also means only users in one time-zone may get to vote which, I suspect, is what happened here. —Brigade Piron (talk) 12:57, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is not a specific length of discussion requirement, nor a requirement that a nomination be held so users in different time zones can comment. 331dot (talk) 13:03, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
331dot, I imagine not. It would still be nice at least to show that we care about a global perspective on Wikipedia? There are uncontroversial WP:RD nominations which have not been posted after double the number of user endorsements and days after opening. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Brigade Piron It's been discussed before(minimum discussion time) and not reached consensus, as any limitation would be arbitrary- and if there are exceptions to it(such as a major news event) that would render any limitation meaningless. Even within the same time zone, people could work third shift or otherwise be unavailable to comment when users typically comment(in a given time zone). I know I'm on Wikipedia at different hours depending on my schedule. As for postings, there has to be administrators available to do so. But I digress from this discussion. 331dot (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Not a typical ITN story but if it is truly the "worst hack of a major social media platform yet" as described in the article then that's significant, and I don't see any quality issues with the article.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:04, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now that Europe is awake, post-posting oppose. Bitcoin scams happen all the time. This story picked up a lot of traction due to the profiles that happened to be targeted by the Twitter hack, but that is more of a novelty rather than anything of actual significance, such as terrorism.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 13:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Can you name a single instance in the past in which attackers gained access to the master keys of a major social networking service, allowing them to post under any account? -- King of ♥ 13:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a clever rhetorical trick there, but not an inherent demonstration of lasting newsworthiness.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 13:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pulling – Per TRM, Walt. Ephemeral, obscure. ZZZzzzz.Sca (talk) 13:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • If it is "the worst hack of a major social media platform yet", as stated by Dmitri Alperovitch, then I'd support posting. The article also highlights the point that Twitter is used by many US politicians, and the platform's flaws is a major concern during a presidential election year. Also, was it right to pull this after just three oppose !votes while not considering the amount of support?Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 14:45, 16 July 2020 (UTC); Edited 15:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose altblurb, as I think some of the concerns here are justifiable with the currently-proposed blurb - the altblurb more clearly explains why this specifically is notable, as it's now been confirmed that Twitter itself was the target, rather than individuals. Naypta✉ talk page 15:58, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support an altblurb. Mariah Carey's Twitter being hacked to say "Eminem can hold this pussy" - tabloid news. Over a dozen public figures being hacked to promote a scam as a major example of cybercrime - significant (in my opinion, anyway). It's not necessarily just "Twitter accounts got hacked," it's still a breach on one of the world's biggest media platforms that's been covered extensively in reliable sources. So long as the blurb clarifies why it's significant, I think it has a place on ITN. Spengouli (talk) 16:02, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support reposting as altblurb. This is very significant news. Psiĥedelisto (talkcontribs) please always ping! 16:21, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support reposting using an altblurb per Spengouli. Gestrid (talk) 16:35, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb as it clarifies why the incident is important (this is not just a hacking of individual prominent accounts). -- King of ♥ 16:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted with a slightly less wordy version of the alt blurb that doesn't get into all the details of the administrative interface and employees. Also replaced the specialized slang of "tweeted" with "promoting." Follow up at WP:ERRORS. -- Fuzheado Talk 17:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Weak Oppose. Limited lasting impact; "weak" because the article is reasonably fleshed out highlighting relevant noteworthiness, even though IMO it falls below the bar of posting to ITN. SpencerT•C 19:00, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support per Naypta and Spengouli. Davey2116 (talk) 19:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment and support as nominator: as it has been noted prevously, at least 12 bitcoins have been transferred during the scam, the equivalent of over US$110,000. It might be useful to include this information in the blurb to give a perspective of the magnitude of the scam. --Jamez42 (talk) 10:41, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Oscar Hugh Lipscomb

Article:Oscar Hugh Lipscomb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The Birmingham News; WPMI-TV (NBC)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 22:12, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) A Surge of Power (Jen Reid) 2020

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles:A Surge of Power (Jen Reid) 2020 (talk · history · tag) and Statue of Edward Colston (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:In Bristol, the sculpture A Surge of Power (Jen Reid) 2020 is erected in place of the statue of Edward Colston. (Post)
News source(s):NYT, AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Let's give this a try. This replaced the toppled statue of Edward Colston which we had nominated to ITN before but a consensus wasn't achieved. Is this earth-shattering news? No. But it's terribly interesting and it has made its way over to the U.S. and probably other countries as well. I urge people to give this article a closer look before pushing for a WP:SNOW close. WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 20:43, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - article quality is irrelevant if it doesn't meet the significance criterion, so why "give this article a closer look"? Banedon (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Because it's interesting and it's notable, not just as a work of art (in the objective sense), but also significant in that it's another chapter in what happened to this notable statue that has been there since the 19th century. It's rather like that statue that was put up on Wall Street of a girl standing up to a bull. Although that wasn't posted on ITN, its significance has withstood and warranted an independent article of it. I feel this is an opportunity for ITN to take a more open mind in terms of posting notable content.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 21:01, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It very well could be, but it's in the news right now. Where is the distinction?--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 21:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentMuboshgu, According to the AP article, Mayor Marvin Rees said "the future of the plinth and what is installed on it must be decided by the people of Bristol" at some point in the future. – Sca (talk) 21:22, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If the people of Bristol decide to keep this statue, that would be a less notable moment than right now, when it has already been erected and the message has been sent.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 21:25, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's still just one statue that was toppled among many during these protests, which are covered by an ongoing link. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And Rhodes lost his head in Cape Town the other day. – Sca (talk) 22:28, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I could support this on notability if Bristolians (?) eventually voted to keep Jen Reid up there, signifying a profound cultural shift. Even as things stand now, it's drawn wide RS coverage. – Sca (talk) 22:08, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Sir Toke Talagi

Article: Toke Talagi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RNZ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 11:52, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • WeakSupport the lead needs expansion but the article is remarkably well-sourced. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I agree with above but the article is yes indeed overwhelmingly sourced. Besides, ruled Niue for a long time, a recognised figure. ^_^ CoryGlee (talk) 11:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay in responding! Great! ^_^ CoryGlee (talk) 12:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Flag of Niue

You learn something niue every day.
Sca (talk) 14:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
[reply]

(Closed) Emirates Mars Mission

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Emirates Mars Mission (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The United Arab Emirates launches its first Mars mission. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Mohammed bin Rashid Space Centre launches its first Mars mission.
Alternative blurb II: The United Arab Emirates launches its first Mars mission from Tanegashima Space Center onboard a H-IIA rocket.
News source(s): CNN
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Looking at List_of_Solar_System_probes UAE seems to be only the seventh entity after USA, USSR, EU, Japan, China, and India to send an interplanetary probe that is not piggybacked on someone else's spacecraft. Launch was delayed to two days from now, but I think when it happens, it should be posted at ITN, probably with a nicer blurb. 205.175.106.45 (talk) 00:41, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Most certainly meets an ITNR, but the mission launch is delayed until later in the week. --Masem (t) 00:53, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per Masem; also note that currently If successful, it would become the first mission to Mars by any West Asian, Arab or Muslim majority country., The mission is timed to arrive at Mars before the 50th anniversary of the independence of the United Arab Emirates on 2 December 1971., with support from MBRSC., and and is set to arrive at Mars in February 2021. are all uncited, with much of the "Specifications" section inadequately cited. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 01:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posting the launch, wait to see if it arrives successfully at Mars. WP:ITNR explicitly states: "Arrival of spacecraft (to lunar orbit and beyond) at their destinations". That's due in February. Modest Geniustalk 10:27, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Or arrives unsuccessfully. Did we not agree that crashes are arrivals? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 10:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't remember any discussion of that, but agree that crashing into Mars would also be worth posting. I'm not so sure if it suffers a malfunction en route or fails to leave Earth orbit. Modest Geniustalk 12:08, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel like we've discussed that but can't recall off the top of my head. An arrival that crashes is still an arrival. If it didn't make it into space it would be a launch failure which would be ITNR as well. 331dot (talk) 12:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I've complained frequently about the vagaries of the ITNR section for Space Exploration. 1. if a launch fails, it is ITNR; if it suceeds it is not. 2. what exactly does indigenous mean in the modern world? 3. when is a rocket differnt enough to be called "new?" ITNC is perfectly capable of handling these noms - the ITNR entry just adds confusion (which is directly counter to ITNR's purpose). GreatCaesarsGhost 13:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I think there are circumstances of space exploration that would merit being on ITNR, but the current list has been largely unchanged for years and perhaps could use a review. 331dot (talk) 13:37, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed! I've started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news/Recurring_items#Revising_the_space_exploration_section. Modest Genius talk 15:43, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree that the arrival will be ITNR, but this is being launched from Japan(so it isn't a country conducting its first indigenous launch). 331dot (talk) 10:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @331dot: That's a valid point that needs to be properly addressed in the blurb (when NASA or Roscosmos launch similar missions, we don't use the United States or Russia in the blurb). I also see the mention of three American universities in the opening sentence.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but no problem for me to wait until it reaches the final destination.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now (particularly as it's been "postponed indefinitely"). - SchroCat (talk) 15:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for actual launch. Also the role of different organizations involved should be made clear in the article, and who is actually launching this should be in the blurb. Gotitbro (talk) 05:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support launched. Created altblurb2 to specify launch site per the above.104.243.98.96 (talk) 00:52, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for launch, but support original blurb otherwise. Tweaked the grammar in blurb and altblurb2. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:32, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb, now that the launch has occured. Worthy of ITN per WP:ITN/R.--Tdl1060 (talk) 22:06, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Struck ITNR justification since it isn't the country's "first successful indigenous orbital launch" since it was launched from Japan, but I still feel this merits an ITN, as the UAE's first Mars mission, a major accomplishment not many nations have achieved.--Tdl1060 (talk) 22:34, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 14

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 14


(Posted) RD: Daniel Lewis Lee

Article: Daniel Lewis Lee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: This is related to the ITNC from July 13 on US federal executions - SCOTUS ordered through the blocking order overnight and the execution was carried out this morning. Based on the comments on that ITNC, I doubt the blurb would be going through but as a BLP/BIO, RD does apply here. Masem (t) 13:47, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I see no problems with the article and the person meets the notability guidelines. - Jon698 talk 13:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all looks ok to me with this one JW 1961 Talk 14:34, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks good to go. (I supplied a reference for the one cite tag I saw).-- P-K3 (talk) 14:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well referenced story. No blurb, but is notable enough.KittenKlub (talk) 14:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RDAmakuru (talk) 14:54, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Grant Imahara

Article: Grant Imahara (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [27] [28]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Shocking breaking news. MythBusters and White Rabbit Project star. Nixinova T C 03:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Neutral pending a few more cites support damn, beat me to it. There's still a few unsourced things though. -- a lad insane (channel two) 04:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC) Cites boosted by Masem - -- a lad insane (channel two) 04:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've finished going through to make sure all the material is cited at this point. --Masem (t) 04:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Confirmed by his former co-stars. –DMartin 04:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 04:41, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 13

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 13


(Posted) RD: Marilyn Howard

Article: Marilyn Howard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [29]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 23rd Idaho Superintendent of Public Instruction and most recent member of the Democratic Party elected to statewide office in Idaho. Jon698 (talk) 16:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support neat little article that is well referenced JW 1961 Talk 19:57, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Does this really meet the WP:GNG? —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I would say it does not, but I'm usually in the minority in these conversations. Would you say the the citations listed in this article address her "directly and in detail" or mention her in trivial passing (she ran, she took office, she left)? GreatCaesarsGhost 13:20, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think the GNG is OK, and it hasn't been tagged as such or nominated for deletion. There are non-passing-mentions in papers and books, such as [30]. — Amakuru (talk) 17:53, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm unconvinced she actually meets GNG as well. Every reference, apart from the one Amakaru mentioned above, is local papers. Not wishing to be funny, but apart from Amakaru's book I could write an article on myself with that level of sourcing. Black Kite (talk) 22:41, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Black Kite, she meets WP:NPOL as someone elected to a statewide office. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:51, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • PostedMuboshgu (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Naya Rivera

Article:Naya Rivera (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):LA Times, BBC, USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ventura county captain confirms body found on July 13; refs added over the last few days so should be all good. Given the circumstances of disappearance/death, I also suggest a blurb. Kingsif (talk) 19:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose RD and neutral on blurb Missing some citations in filmography and other tables. Once that's fixed I will Support for RD. Everything else looks ready good. I would definitely have supported this but considering the previous debate on Won-soon and Rajput's exclusion, I'm very hesitant on RD's as blurbs. Will reconsider my position depending on other peoples points. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Dantheanimator: Anything not cited in filmography (etc.) is cited in prose, something supported by MOS. Kingsif (talk) 19:54, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: Thanks Kingsif, I had no clue. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:58, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD and neutral on blurb I definitely would have supported this but considering the previous debate on Won-soon and Rajput's exclusion, I'm very hesitant on RD's as blurbs. Will reconsider my position depending on other peoples points. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, flat out oppose blurb tragic, very tragic, but she was not transformative in any sense whatsoever. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not for 'death is the story' blurb? Kingsif (talk) 20:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, this person's death, while tragic, will have precisely zero long-term impact. It was an accident, she died young, it's definitely a sad situation, but if we're now going to continue the Carrie Fisher mistake (and Carrie Fisher had much more call for a blurb than this individual, yet it was still wholly incorrect), then ITN is morer of a running joke than I thought. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @The Rambling Man: A 4/5-day disappearance that's been making headlines around the world is a story, which is what would be blurbed, not just her death. As you said, tragic as it is, she's nowhere near famous/whatever enough for a death blurb if not for the circumstances. Of course, death blurbs are a mess of inconsistencies and debate (I didn't outright nominate for blurb because I'm still not sure where we're sitting on the 'criteria') Kingsif (talk) 21:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • She fell off a boat. This "disappearance" thing is a red herring. It often takes days to find people in such situations. If this was Meryl Streep or Brie Larson or Renee Zellweger for instance, it'd be a reasonable call, as they have literally transformed their industry. This actress, while popular, has not. We don't need another Carrie Fisher or Paul Hunter moment. And why are all these posted individuals from the US?? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @The Rambling Man: You make some good points, I have thoughts (which I don't think will change your view, as they build on subjectivity) that would probably be better expressed in the death blurb discussion on talk than drawing this nom out. In short: public response to the disappearance story has been overwhelming internationally in a way you would expect for those much more notable actresses. As said, though, I'm not going to fight blurb views because of how messy the area is. Kingsif (talk) 21:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "public response"? What, "we're sad someone young and on television has died"? I get it, and I am not suggesting this isn't getting a lot of popular traffic (just like Hamilton, see WP:TOP25) but this is no way to run the rule over who is notable enough for a blurb. We pretty much universally agreed that Carrie Fisher's posting as a blurb was a mistake, and this would just doubly double down on that: a popular yet not-transformative American actress getting a blurb? Nope. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Rambling Man What happened with Carrie Fisher nom's blurb that make it so "bad"? I wasn't with wiki when she died nor when the nom was made so I have no clue what is the big deal with Carrie Fisher. I would think being a lead Star Wars actor would be notable on its own but that's just my thoughts. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well yes, that's practically nailed it. She was big in one set of movies about 35 years before her death and then not much else. That was the problem. But even then, she had some historic movies behind her rather than this individual here who literally has been a US TV "star" for a while. Fisher shouldn't have been posted and sadly this individual pales into insignificance when compared to her. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Most celebrities die many years after what made them famous. Hawkeye7(discuss) 23:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    But this "celebrity" was not "transformative". Popular, yes, but nothing more. While it may be considered disrespectful to say it, her death won't be long in the memory. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Dantheanimator: With Carrie Fisher, it was seen that she had a relatively natural death and was very famous for one franchise, without leaving any other impact, and that similar actors (especially from elsewhere in the world) would not even be considered for blurbs because the 'cult fan' thing Star Wars has doesn't apply. Posting Fisher as a blurb was kind of saying 'Star Wars is more important than better films'. Kingsif (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you Kingsif and The Rambling Man for the explanation. Yeah, it makes sense. Not surprised if the debate was really long considering how many Star Wars fans there are (partially including myself). Dantheanimator (talk) 00:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Body hasn't been ID'd nor a cause of death determined. In any case, very low EV. – Sca (talk) 20:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Body has now been identified. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 21:39, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obvious blurb, but wait for confirmation. This is a 33 year old network TV star whose disappearance was widely covered. If we don't blurb this, the RD criteria have no meaning. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    GreatCaesarsGhost same with Rajput and he didn't get a blurb. The RD criteria at this point already has no meaning. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:15, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What does this have to do with the "RD criteria"? The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The Rambling Man "Death as the main story: ... If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." Also, between 01 June to 6 July 2020, Rajput's page received 13,684,142 views (with a daily peak of 7M). That's over 10M more views than the page just under it (which had only 1,988,366 and a daily peak of 593K). One more thing "For deaths where ... the events surrounding the death merit additional explanation (such as ongoing investigations, major stories about memorial services or international reactions, etc.)." There is an ongoing investigation right now. Almost everything about Rajput's death warranted a blurb but he never got a blurb. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:31, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not the RD criteria then is it? That's the main ITN criteria. And you've nailed it there with "newsworthy reaction". What we're seeing herer for this individual is "sad, young actress dies in accident" but she wasn't transformative, she had not won any Academy Awards etc, in two days time this will be completely forgotten by 99.999% of people, and finally, please we all need to stop attempting to equate ITN candidates with pageviews. If that's what we really want to do, base it on popularity, not encyclopedic significance, then someone start an RFC to rework ITN to match that expectation. If not, please go to WP:TOP25 where you can find all the "popular" pages. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The Rambling Man don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with you and that's why I'm putting myself as neutral for the blurb. The only reason I'm equating page views with Rajput because the disparity is very, very large (I could also cite Google search trends if you like, which would also be very high). I am arguing for the same point you are (that this nom doesn't qualify for a blurb) just differently though. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    TRM, as ever, maintains that TOP25 (fun as it is) shouldn't dictate blurbs. Now, I don't think the difference between Rajput and other articles viewed that week adds much when he didn't have a notable death nor was a particularly influential actor. FWIW, Rivera was the top-viewed article last week, and dragged two other Glee actors into the top 25 with her, but this also isn't much support for the blurb case here. Kingsif (talk) 21:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Both, I would be more than happy that, following an RFC to confirm that pageviews should form a constituent part of the decision-making process at ITN, we then institute that approach. Kingsif, you're right, and in fact I mentioned this very news story as it was top of the WP:TOP25 fun list. I also noted that most of the remainder of the top ten was related to Hamilton (the musical). We can't just look at pageviews and equate it to notability or even newsworthiness. But, as I mentioned, if an RFC is formulated which incorporates pageviews somehow, I'd be glad to see the proposal. In the meantime, this is an encyclopedia. We blurb a handful of individuals deaths a year, and they are usually considered the deeply significant, transformative individuals. We don't (or shouldn't) post "popular" TV actresses who die, albeit far too soon. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I am saying I agree, there's a shaky line at ITN between things that are actually in the news (which often dictates pageviews) and then things that are meaningfully in the news (rather than things reported to generate traffic, which also gets pageviews). I support ITN/C discussion taking precedence over but they have 5 million views arguments. Kingsif (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    As a point of reference, the inauguration of Donald Trump and the appointment of Brett Kavanaugh to the supreme court were two events that were both the top headline in virtually all papers across the world, and dominated page views at their respective times, but did not find consensus to post. (Trump's was eventually posted, but only because the protests surrounding the inauguration became notable in themselves). So even though the main aim of ITN is to showcase articles related to topics that are in the news, that is always nuanced by convention and the way consensus is built here. There is an oft-used adage that "ITN is not a news-ticker". — Amakuru (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Ventura county sheriff press conference confirmed at 2pm PDT (9pm UTC). Pinging @Sca and GreatCaesarsGhost: as update to their 'wait's :) Kingsif (talk) 21:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, weak support for blurb Though not necessarily a "transformative figure", the story of her death is an international story itself. This is not a usual passing away, but the result of a five-day search with her young son surviving. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 21:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment tagging this good to go for the RD, and suggesting blurb discussion is allowed to continue, no point in holding up RD as the article is in good order and consensus for that exists. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only An unexpected death may warrant a blurb. This one doesn’t. P-K3 (talk) 22:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, oppose blurb I don't find the argument that the disappearance itself has been a headline story for days plausible when no-one nominated it here. If that story had been nominated and halted pending conclusion before the worst happened, then this would have had a much better chance for posting as something that ended tragically. In general, people tend to overstate all preceding events before the worst happens and so seems to be the case here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sensible were waiting before proposing a disappearance that would never get posted, but when the article of a not-otherwise-current/relevant actress was the top viewed on Wikipedia before she was found dead, it is entirely plausible that the disappearance was indeed a big story. Kingsif (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Kingsif: I get your point and the only chance for this to get posted is to highlight the notability of the event rather than the underlying person but the main problem is that we don't even have a separate article documenting the disappearance as something that will be included in the blurb. We posted Emiliano Sala's death last year after he had disappeared under speculative circumstances but the story was very well documented and nominated for inclusion once the disappearance was announced. In general, the existence of a separate article about the event should be conveniently considered a precondition for posting in such cases.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, RD only. The point of the "unusual circumstances" clause is that such deaths can be considered for a blurb outside of the usual extremely high bar for blurbing if it's a regular old age death (the much-discussed "Thatcher/Mandela test"). The clause does not imply that such deaths must automatically be elevated to blurb status. The question is whether we consider the story of the death significant enough for the blurb section, applying the usual standards that we would for any other story. In this case, like others above I don't think the story of Rivera's disappeareance and death is of sufficient global and overall significance, although of course it is very tragic particularly for such a young person with small children. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 23:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As they say on Star Trek, "She's dead Jim". Hawkeye7(discuss) 23:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    She is. Are you supporting the RD, the blurb or both? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Filmography and below is poorly referenced. Stephen 23:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb unfortunately accidents and suicides (esp among entertainers, sportspeople etc or overdoses) or occur from time to time and there is nothing particularly notable about this accident (as opposed to suicides related to scandals and so forth). Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Stephen I think everything that lacked a citation in the table(s) is referenced inline in the prose. Can you let me know if anything is missing? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Rambling Man The first two I checked - House Blend, which doesn't have an article, and The Jersey - aren't referenced in the cite for their prose mention. Stephen 23:26, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • A few days ago I went through and checked the filmography, I didn't think I'd missed anything but I'll add those and check the others again. And will add prose refs in the filmography, per suggestion below. Kingsif (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Very minor point, but the episode count for Step Up: High Water is given as 20 episodes, but I don't think that number is mentioned in the prose. Not citing those entries mentioned elsewhere does seem an odd way of doing things, personally I'd just repeat the ref in both the table and the prose, to avoid confusion and accidental removal if the text is later changed, but it is permitted anyway. — Amakuru (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only As we found out last week, blurbs are not for people about whom, prior to their death, most of the world's population would have said "who?" Black Kite (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @Stephen and The Rambling Man: refs updated. There's no unified ref for the number of Royal Family or Devious Maids episodes. For the latter, they're all on YouTube so a note with the five YT links could be added. Royal Family seems too old, but if she was in every episode then it's correct. Kingsif (talk) 00:06, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:12, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Armenian–Azerbaijani skirmishes

Article:2020 Armenian–Azerbaijani skirmishes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:At least sixteen people are killed in border clashes between Armenian and Azerbaijani Armed Forces. (Post)
News source(s):Al Jazeera, AP, BBC (updated), NYT (updated)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: More significant than a comet & to-be-Euro news. Invisible Lad (talk) 16:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment wow, this is a really strange day for me I guess. This is the second time I was about to nominate something but saw it was already posted in the past few minutes. Also would like to respectfully disagree with you comments on the comet and ERM II accession. Regarding the nom, I'll have to Weakly Oppose. Unless someone else brings up a good point, this feels too minor (and more or less insignificant) for ITN inclusion. For this to be posted to ITN, I would expect at least 10 soldiers killed and some injured. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per updates I'd imagine if something like this happened at the Korean DMZ, it would have had no trouble getting on ITN. Also support per below. If anything changes, I cannot update since I will not be editing Wiki anymore (for a long while) due to my obligations. It was a privilege working with everyone. Thank you. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:01, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Dantheanimator (and as a retired soldier who made it out with a pension I'm glad Dan wasn't marking my time card LOL) JW 1961 Talk 17:40, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing to Support per updates today JW 1961 Talk 14:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - per bigger picture of skirmishes and escalation of decades old disputes. BabbaQ (talk) 18:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Support - Escalated to 16 deaths, including an Azeri general. (AP)104.243.98.96 (talk) 16:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – for now. Appears comparatively minor. – Sca (talk) 20:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Similar clashes occurred in 2016 and 2018, and this appears to be an insignificant event in the broader Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. If these clashes escalate, then we should consider posting as a blurb. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 21:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we know the current amount of soldiers killed? I count a minimum 15 soldiers and a civilian if we combine Armenia and Azerbaijan's estimates of their own account. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:06, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – This locale has seen periodic skirmishes and warfare off & on for decades. The latest flareup seems like more of the same, without notable significance ... yet. – Sca (talk) 15:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Armenia and Azerbaijan always have minor skirmishes from time to time, but these are exceptional. They are the largest skirmishes since the 2016 4 day war, and unlike in 2016, these skirmishes are directly between the international borders of the two countries rather than on the line of contact in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is unusual, and it is the biggest fighting to have occurred on the border since the 1994 war. A 2-star Azerbaijani general has been killed, and there are protests going on in Baku in support of war. Achemish (talk) 22:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support While significant seems like the reaction is relatively mute, compared to past instances, perhaps due to the pandemic. Not sure on long term impacts but this is clearly "in the news" material. Gotitbro (talk) 05:28, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've updated the blurb per recent developments, could we have an admin for assessment? Brandmeistertalk 22:29, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment/Oppose till issues fixed The background section has no references. Other than that there is a primary sources orange tag in the reactions section. I'm less worried about that myself, as reactions are the sort of thing you can just verify with the source of the reaction itself, as long as no interpretation is made. The tag should be either removed as not valid, or the issue resolved though, prior to posting. — Amakuru (talk) 23:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted - the two issues I raised above have been resolved, and there is solid consensus to post otherwise. — Amakuru (talk) 07:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Washington NFL team confirm name change

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Washington Redskins name controversy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Washington American football confirm they will change their controversial name and logo. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Long running saga over the offensive "Redskins" nickname appears to have come to an end. The name controversy article is a GA. P-K3 (talk) 15:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close good faith nom. Long time coming in the post-George Floyd era, but of zero importance outside of people directly concerned about this single football team.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 15:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment They haven't chosen a new name yet so it might be better to wait until it happens. As the owner promised that the name would NEVER be changed, his plans are not reliable. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and close, per WaltCip. - SchroCat (talk) 15:37, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we seem to be having a series of "things that might happen" stories being nominated. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment was just about to post this when I saw this. Oh well, thanks for posting this P-K3. Despite that, I'll have to Oppose due to the reasons listed above. No way near notable enough for ITN inclusion in my opinion. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No problem. I am not a follower of the NFL but I thought it was topical, and a good quality article.-- P-K3 (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good news, but other prominent name changes (see: several country bands) have not been posted. They're doing the basic right thing, and don't need applause for it. Kingsif (talk) 17:31, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Eleanor Sokoloff

Article: Eleanor Sokoloff (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Philadelphia Inquirer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Unique piano teacher for 80 years and a few, wanted to return to teaching after summer vacation, at age 106. Sourcing, however, is limited. There could be tons of sources, all bios of her now famous students mentioning her name, but she taught them early, so did not actually shape their playing beyond groundwork. See Keith Jarrett, whom she had forgotten when he came to visit her with thanks. (Anecdote not yet in the article. Feel free.) Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Looks OK to me. Quite short, but not a stub and covers the basics. — Amakuru (talk) 14:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. A decent article which, realistically, could not be any longer. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:47, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supportok this is really short but as per above, it meets the requirements. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's long enough and referenced well JW 1961 Talk 17:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's good to go folks. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. I !voted above, but there's sufficient consensus even without that, so it was good to go. — Amakuru (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Reposted) RD: Zindzi Mandela

Article:Zindzi Mandela (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):BBC News; Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support satis. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RDAmakuru (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – No BLP should have a controversy section. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Where's the related policy for that? I checked WP:BLP and couldn't find anything. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Here WP:WEIGHT. Especially compared to the size of the article, there is no way the section has been given proper weight. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:58, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, the undue thing. But that doesn't equate to your initial assertion in any way at all. Cheers though. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Controversy sections lead to undue emphasis 99% of time in my experience. This always happens on BLPs. People keep adding to it, covering non-notable events in minute detail. I was just using shorthand. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 13:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a different experience from my own. I just think it not wise to make non-policy-based claims like that, even if you yourself understood it to be shorthand for what you personally feel. Cheers. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I challenge you to show me a BLP with a controversy section that is not undue. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 13:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, thanks, I'm not interested, I have plenty of other things to do I'm afraid. But I'm glad you clarified your personal assertion. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh christ, just admit when you're obviously wrong. You voted in support of this absolutely burning dumpster fire of a BLP. People who suffered under Apartheid criticizing the people that did it is not racist or controversial. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:49, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No thanks. And while you're blaspheming at me, why not strike out in anger at the posting admin. After all, I was just offering my opinion, no harm there until this all started up. Perhaps if you care so much, you could address the issues you see in the article to your satisfaction. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:55, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulled. Given that two users object to the article on NPOV grounds, I have pulled it for the time being. If the issues are resolved, or consensus becomes clear again in favour, then it can be re-posted. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I think we could really fill a biography with the undoubtedly crucial duties which being South African ambassador to Denmark entails. The controversy section is well-sourced and, frankly, pertinent to a diplomat's career. I see no WP:UNDUE issue. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:40, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There is no UNDUE issue, and the claim that "No BLP should have a controversy section" is way beyond dubious, it's just utterly wrong: if Trump dies tomorrow, do we say he can't appear on the MP because there is something negative about him not just on his article, but several separate articles detailing the various controversies? - SchroCat (talk) 15:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Trump is the most controversial living person on Twitter and the article about him ... surprise, surprise... has no Twitter CSECTION. Why? Because of our policy at WP:BLPBALANCE. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Is he actually though? I'm going to take that as a subjective thought. Better not to use hyperbole/exaggeration when arguing on wiki. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also Coffeeandcrumbs (talk·contribs), I looked through his page and did find a section about his use of Twitter and the controversy related to it. The section is called "Social media". Dantheanimator (talk) 17:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dantheanimator, yes of course there is controversy but it is not sectioned off as controversy and highlighted. Section headings should not be inherently negative or prejudiced. The "Social media" section also includes information that is not negative like "his tweets have been considered official statements". Please read WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION. It explains everything I am saying. Of course "most controversial living person on Twitter" is an opinion. Everything I write on a talk page is my opinion and my interpretation of the guidelines on Wikipedia as I understand. There is no need for me to say IMO. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear. You really do need to read the things you rely on (and avoid nonsense like "No BLP should have a controversy section"). WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION says ""Controversy" is not necessarily part of the name of such a section". It's not the name of the section that is the issue. Either way this article is now on the MP (as will Trump's be, despite sections about controversies and entire articles about it too), and the information is still there - there has been no change in the NPOV from when it was refused to when it was posted. - SchroCat (talk) 17:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The two items in the controversy section seem significant and well-sourced, I don't think they are undue weight.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think it's clear that this is ready once more now we've gone round the buoy. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 15:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support per above. Thank you Amakuru for actually paying attention to the changing consensus and pulling it after the change, which is what real, true, and proper admins should do. We need more admins like you. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC) *Oppose per Muboshgu. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not ready I'm not posting this in the state it's in. WP:CONTROVERSYSECTION is an essay that I follow and I don't think this article is adhering to NPOV as it should. Her "ambassadorship" section is two short sentences about taking the ambassadorship, and her "Racism controversy" subjection is for some reason separate from her ambassadorship in the prose (though it relates directly to her time in Denmark). Is there really nothing else to say about her ambassadorship? Her obits don't have anything else to say? The Mayweather-Pacquiao bit is odd and incomplete. If these things are so important, they should be better integrated into the rest of the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    There is consensus in favour of posting. There is consensus in favour of it being suitable, having taken those concerns into account already. You shouldn't be supervoting. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The Rambling Man, you know well that it's not a "supervote" for an admin to come along and say, "no, this isn't ready to post". Amakuru or any other admin can disagree with me, if they wish. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Amakuru already did disagree with you. He posted it in the first instance. He then listened to the community and pulled. And now someone should listen to the community and post, not supervote it down because they personally disagree with the content. Anyway, you know all that. Cheers. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:44, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    How information is presented has large effect on NPOV. So does what information is selected. This article reads like a COATRACK for controversy. No effort has been made to represent the full extent of her life. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You've already made your thoughts very clear above, I don't see any value in repeating them unless this is filibustering I suppose. There's a consensus to post, despite what you personally think. But you already know that. Cheers. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Ditto and NOTVOTE. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Who said vote?! Bizarre. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 17:14, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with your points Coffeeandcrumbs and Muboshgu but you both need to accept the fact: there is a decently large consensus in support of posting this so this must be posted eventually as per The Rambling Man. No use in delaying the inevitable. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Dantheanimator, admins are given the mop because it's our job to clean up the messes, like ensuring that there are no orange tags in articles that are posted to the main page. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's certainly not the case. Admins are usually given the mop because they are trusted to judge the wishes of the community. They do act as gatekeepers to prevent overt issues from becoming a problem, but in this case that wasn't the issue at hand. In fact, the sudden mention of orange tags below which didn't form part of any single opposition above is quite telling. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:22, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    "Orange tags" was shorthand for "NPOV problem", as that's what the orange tag there was about. I could have been clearer on that. That said, we sometimes have to judge the wishes of the community against their best interests of the project, especially the five pillars. WP:ITN#Article quality does address this. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Reposted Now that there are no orange tags, we can post this article again per the consensus. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Now that the drama is over for the time being, I wonder whether a blurb is warranted. She rather self-evidently meets the "Thatcher / Mandela test", after all Smiley.pngAmakuru (talk) 18:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, yeah she definitely passed the Thatcher/Mandela test. I'm a little wary though of supporting any RD for a blurb now after the whole Park Won-soon event and everything else that happened thus far. As such, I'm going to leave myself as Neutral for the blurb until someone else offers a convincing claim with some convincing evidence.Dantheanimator (talk) 21:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest we post this one on odd-numbered dates only. – Sca (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Dantheanimator: my comment was just a joke! There's no way Zindzi Mandela's death would ever be considered for a blurb, unless it happened under very unusual circumstances. I wrote the line in small text, which is usually a clue that it's a less-than-serious comment, much like Sca's immediately above this one. (I believe the small text can cause problems for people with impaired vision though, so it should be used with caution). Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 22:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sca I know it was a joke and that's why I italicized "definitely" and "Mandela" (since "obviously" she would fit the requirements because she literally is a Mandela). Sorry for the misunderstanding. In hindsight, maybe I should have bolded the words or placed them in quotes. Anyways. who cares, its just a joke. ;) Dantheanimator (talk) 22:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) First federal US Execution in over a decade

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Capital punishment in the United States (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Convicted murderer Daniel Lewis Lee is sentenced to death in the first federal execution since 2003. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In the first federal execution since 2003, a court overturns a ruling blocking Daniel Lewis Lee's execution.
Alternative blurb II: After a court overturned a court ruling blocking Daniel Lewis Lee's execution, he will be the first federal execution since 2003.
News source(s): [31]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: First federal execution in a long time. Dantheanimator (talk) 12:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Hasn't happened yet. – Sca (talk) 12:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the execution occurs. 331dot (talk) 12:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and snow close. Until the final final appeal has been denied, this isn't a story. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • While I agree here, the final appeal has only until 3pm ET today at SCOTUS to be made. So I would simply do a Wait on this rather than closing it, and then wait to see in about 7 hours from when I type this. --Masem (t) 13:11, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose but wait I agree with The Rambling Man that it's jumping the gun: we shouldn't run anything that predicts the future, we should summarise what has already happened in the past, however recent. having said that, if as Masem says, the result is likely to be known in less a few hours, then I don't really see the point in closing this only to reopen (NOTBURO, etc). And these things often stay open longer than the allotted time anyway, so. By the way, TRM, ygm. ——Serial # 13:31, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose even if executed because roughly a score of people were executed in the US in 2018 (?) and even if it's the legitimate first execution in a decade, several hundred people are executed around the world every year, so this is not special. Banedon (talk) 13:40, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • point of clarity: this is the first execution that is being conducted by the federal government since 2001. All those in the past years are state-level ones, of which there have been hundreds. But that there have been hundreds otherwise is still a fair point --Masem (t) 13:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - No need to restate that the U.S. engages in a rather bizarre form of barbarism that most other developed countries have given up.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 13:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The point is that the federal government has not been engaging in it for some time, only a decreasing handful of states have.-- P-K3 (talk) 14:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's somewhat "meh" whether it's the federal government or some other organisation handing out/carrying out these ridiculous sentences. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Lets not go there with "bizarre form of barbarism." A third of the G20 retain capital punishment, and those that have given it up did so well into their civilized eras. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Um, yes, while the US ramps up the numbers. Mystifying. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The distinction between a state execution and a federal one is of interest to legal scholars, but not the general public. The person dies either way. The US continues to conduct a few dozen executions per year. Modest Genius talk 14:19, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not unexpectedly, a judge has delayed the execution. Even if it goes ahead I do not think it meets the threshold for ITN inclusion.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It seems there is a unanimous consensus against this so I think it's best to close this nom soon. Dantheanimator (talk) 15:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2020 Polish presidential election

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:2020 Polish presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Incumbent President Andrzej Duda is re-elected after winning 51.2% of the votes in a second round run-off. (Post)
Alternative blurb:The National Electoral Commission announces that incumbent President Andrzej Duda has been re-elected after winning 51.2% of the votes in a second round run-off with challenger Rafał Trzaskowski.
Alternative blurb II:President Andrzej Duda is re-elected after the National Electoral Commission announces that he won 51.2% of the votes in a second round run-off.
Alternative blurb III:In Poland, incumbent President Andrzej Duda is re-elected with 51.2% of the vote in a second round run-off.
News source(s):BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, dpa (Eng.)
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: If there is any mistake, please tell me. This is my first proper ITNR nom. Dantheanimator (talk) 12:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you The Rambling Man. Yeah, should have included Poland in the blurbs. Thanks for improving them. Dantheanimator (talk) 15:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - candidates and opinion poll sections are very under-referenced — Amakuru (talk) 13:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'd just add Polish President Andrzej Duda so that it is clear on what country this is about. T Magierowski (talk) 13:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Or, there's always "In Poland, x x x" – Sca (talk) 14:04, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but do we have to put three kisses in the hook like that?! Seems a little unencyclopedic... — Amakuru (talk) 14:51, 13 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]
How do you feel about elipses? – Sca (talk) 21:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per Amakuru those two sections need to be referenced, and there should be some prose in the Results section.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Needs citations throughout and a prose update. Kingsif (talk) 17:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is "improving" rapidly as additional information is being added by contributors. From a strictly news perspective, this has very significant impact in European politics as Poland is still one of the biggest members of the EU. Definitely a polarized election which would have seen significant shift in European politics had it also gone the other way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.243.98.96 (talk) 19:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
– Or did you mean a Polonized election? – Sca (talk) 21:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still zero prose update, no sources in opinion polls, candidate section is little more than images under party headers, etc. No meaningful improvements yet. Kingsif (talk) 21:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added some prose under results, as for the opinion polls, they are all sourced in the separate opinion poll article. T Magierowski (talk) 22:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article is not bad and the topic is clearly notable. —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:04, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 12

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 12


(Posted) RD: Joanna Cole

Article: Joanna Cole (author) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/joanna-cole-dead-author-magic-school-bus-book-series-dies-at-75-1303345
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Author of The Magic School Bus series. HiLo48 (talk) 04:16, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support The last sentence about her work with Calmenson should be sourced; it is clearly true - I can see those books in reliable catalogs, but simply no prose-based source for that, so I would not consider it a line that is required to be sourced but if needed this page should work. --Masem (t) 04:54, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I sourced it and included two links from Calmenson's website. SL93 (talk) 05:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I expanded it and referenced much of the article. She was a very noteworthy author. SL93 (talk) 05:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, article is well enough sourced. Damn, this hasn't been a good week for my childhood. -- a lad insane (channel two) 05:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD (Death announced July 15). SpencerT•C 19:04, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Manuel Moroun

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Manuel Moroun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Detroit News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 21:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Big gap in the biography. He graduates from university in 1949, then it leaps to him buying a bridge 30 years later. Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article is incomplete, which is a problem given that there are lots of sources, which indicate that he is an extremely polarising figure, and do cover many business activities that are not in the article. The RD criteria need to be increased to favour quality over quantity because there are just too many drive-bys that are just being put up to increase throughput Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bumbubookworm No, the RD criteria do not need to be increased. They already are based solely on quality. Cheers! The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that the RD criteria are fine as they are, but the question is whether this article satisfies the "quality" requirement. The suggestion that the article is incomplete seems valid, given that it leaps from his graduation in 1949 (or possible the "middle of the decade", which I assume means around 1955) to a one-liner about him buying the bridge in 1979 (with no detail on how or why) and then the first substantial material on that only from 2009 onwards. The material that's there seems to focus almost exclusively on negative coverage of him too, which may evoke memories of yesterday's "controversies" debate surrounding Mandela! As an aside, Bumbubookworm may be alluding to the fact that the OP is taking part in the Wikipedia:WikiCup, and has amassed a very tidy score there through ITN nominations. Nothing wrong with that of course, as long as our usual rules are being followed. — Amakuru (talk) 09:49, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't aware of the WikiCup encompassing ITN actually, but I had noticed a massive increase in the number of RD noms recently, and that less of the RDs seemed to be of the kind where the nominator ended up having to expand the article significantly to get it up to speed [I would have assumed that there would otherwise be no incentive to nominate four articles that stay for a day each rather than one article that was expanded a lot and then lasted four days]. Obviously it is going to be difficult to polish articles (to a medium level, I am not asking for quick-build GAs) if one is nominating multiple RDs a day. There have been a flurry of articles that are mostly unsourced cropping up at ITN recently, and this one is far from being the worst, because it was mostly sourced to proper newspapers. The issue is that when you have a controversial businessman, politician or military officer, there is always a danger that what was put in there long ago might have misrepresented sources, or selectively included content for POV purposes. The main problem here is that even with no bad intent, the existing article will need thorough working through because of the nature of the subject so that the disputes etc have the required context (cf if we just had an artist or whatever with incompleteness, it would usually not cause POV issues or mislead people) - The same applies for Tran Ngoc Chau, even if it were submitted for GA, there's possibly a substantial chance people wouldn't notice the subtle but clear neutrality issues. So basically, one would need to do fairly thorough research to be reasonably confident that the article was coherent and relatively fair. Bumbubookworm (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Specifically to the article quality, I am not convinced because a quick Google showed that most info about this fellow is relating to obstructionist/anti-competitive behaviour, land hoarding and a lot of attempts to prevent other projects to maintain a monopoly. This is not really clear and a lot of info would need to be added for his activities to make sense. Random examples [35] [36] in depth profile some claims of asbestos vios. It's just inherent to the nature of this person's activities that the article would need to be quite long to not accidentally mislead/be POV due to jumps/gaps in info Bumbubookworm (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Amakuru: Unlike Mandela (where the events detailed in "Controversies" are more subjective), Moroun has been labelled outright as a "controversial owner" in the headline of his obituaries in the Detroit Free Press and Crain's Detroit Business, and called "a controversial figure for much of his career" by The Globe and Mail back in 2017. So it's no big surprise that the coverage on him is mostly negative. Since he rarely does interviews or speaks to the media, there's not much to go on to fill in the gap between 1955 and 1979. Or to improve his reputation among the general public. —Bloom6132 (talk) 10:23, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Spencer, Stephen, and Black Kite: I've done my best to address the aforementioned concerns. What do you guys think? —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:17, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pinging Amakuru for good measure. —Bloom6132 (talk) 05:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, marking ready. I think this meets standards for appropriate coverage since it highlights what he is notable for. Would prefer an additional "support" before posting outright. SpencerT•C 16:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Just to be clear, per the above two objections I also don't believe this to be ready because the article has huge gaps in the timeline, covering the majority of his adult life. For a person of this stature and business standing, even with his secretive nature, it just isn't plausible that there are no other details available. Even from brief obits it says how he converted his father's small business into an empire; there is mention of him fighting with his sisters and taking control of the business from them, which isn't mentioned. There must be more coverage of how he came to be the majority owner of the bridge as well. Main page articles don't have to be perfect, but they do have to be balanced. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Alfred Mtsi

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Alfred Mtsi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [37]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former member of the Eastern Cape Provincial Legislature, mayor of the Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality (which has over 700,000 people), and speaker of the city council Jon698 (talk) 14:57, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll wait for GreatCaesarsGhost's response first. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I said to Caesar, Mtsi was a provincial legislator for 15 years (basically a state legislator) so he easily passes the notability rules. Also the article cites multiple independent sources. - Jon698 (talk) 21:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Bloom6132: It has almost been 24 hours since GreatCaesarsGhost has responded. Could you give me your opinion on the article now as I believe that I have shown why his points are meaningless. - Jon698 (talk) 20:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, the fluff padding of post-death "praise" is still there … in spite what I said above. Or do you consider my comment meaningless as well? —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks better. I'm still going to wait for GreatCaesarsGhost's response to this. I'm not inclined to dismiss his opinion so lightly. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Bloom6132: Opinion on the article now? Since I have pinged GreatCaesarsGhost he has made four edits, with one being made on this page itself, but has not made any attempt to make further comment on Alfred Mtsi. - Jon698 (talk) 14:22, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Bloom6132:
  • Oppose Target does not meet the requirement of WP:GNG to have significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent, nor does he does not meet the lower standard of WP:NPOL. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GreatCaesarsGhost: The article cites sources from the Daily Dispatch, Buffalo City government, Queenstown Representative (know as "The Rep"), and the South African Broadcasting Corporation. Also Mtsi served as the mayor of an municipality of over 700,000 people and as a provincial legislator, making him a "state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels". - Jon698 (talk) 21:33, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Comment @Spencer: It is completely unfair that this is being close when the only reason it wasn't put up was due GreatCaesarsGhost refusing to reply. - Jon698 (talk) 19:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reading the discussion, there was no consensus that the article was in a sufficient state to post. Additionally, after assessing the article now, it is essentially a resume in prose format with respect to the subject's political career (no content about what he did in those roles), and I would have opposed it as such for insufficient depth of coverage. But that's a moot point anyway, since it's 2 days older than the oldest ITN item. See above nom that I closed even though I felt like the state met minimum posting standards for ITN; there was not consensus there either. SpencerT•C 21:21, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was not "refusing to reply." I received no notification of your pings; perhaps this is a preference setting. It is no matter - I expressed my opinion and if others feel differently, they may express theirs. There is no need to convince any one editor to change their reading of facts, because consensus rules. Note that I expressed a similar opinion about Marilyn Howard, but she was posted nevertheless. The nom failed because admins deemed there was insufficient support. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:38, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GreatCaesarsGhost: 1. The only reason it had "insufficient support" was because Bloom was waiting for YOU to reply 2. You did not write an oppose comment for Marily Howard you only replied to a comment. 3. I still want a reply to my point in response to your oppose comment - Jon698 (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
1. It's Bloom's business how he chooses to manage his life. There are dozens of editors actively editing this page everyday - ignoring a nom is a vote of its own. 2. I felt more strongly about Mtsi's insignificance than I did Howard's. The consensus agreed with me on that. 3. Persons meeting one of the criterion under WP:BIO are "likely to be notable" but it "does not guarantee that a subject should be included." Rather, the guideline should be taken as a whole, considering if a person is "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded." GreatCaesarsGhost 21:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @GreatCaesarsGhost: 1. There was no "consensus" that Mtsi was insignificant because the nomination only failed because it was stale 2. Bloom literally said that he was waiting for YOU to reply 3. If you don't believe that Mtsi is notable at all then why don't you file a AfD if not then you entire point is worthless if you don't bother to take action - Jon698 (talk) 21:32, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Kelly Preston

Article: Kelly Preston (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Wife of John Travolta. Stephen 05:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Brad Watson (writer)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Brad Watson (writer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Boston Globe
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Died on July 8, but only reported in The Boston Globe on July 12. Bloom6132 (talk) 03:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stale dies on the 8th, was reported on the 9th. We don't date from when the Boston Globe gets around to his obituary. Stephen 04:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Stephen: even if we do date it to the 9th, there's still 3 more days to go before it should be archived. Can this not be put at the very bottom entry of RD (i.e. replacing Mahmoud Reda)? —Bloom6132 (talk) 04:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why would it be dated to the 9th, he died on the 8th? We don't micromanage to when the first mention is given. Currently the oldest RD is the 10th, so it's stale whatever date. Stephen 04:15, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Stephen: Okay, fine, 2 days left then. That still doesn't answer my question as to why this cannot be put at the very bottom entry of RD. —Bloom6132 (talk) 04:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because the oldest RD is the 10th, so this is older than that. Stephen 04:23, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, we do micromanage to when the first mention is given. That's what is stated at Wikipedia:In the news#Procedure for posting: "For purposes of determining timing and staleness, the date is considered when the event was first reported in reliable sources. This will often be the same day as the event itself, but sometimes it can be some time later". The first reliable source with national readership to report this is the Globe. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stale, per Stephen. Even if we go by the apparent reporting date of July 9th, this is already older than all entries in RD. — Amakuru (talk) 11:06, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there actually an established rule that says an older RD (still within the 7 day period) can't replace a newer RD? I'm fine with a nom being rejected on substantive grounds (e.g. quality, referencing, tags, etc.). But it really feels like this is being stonewalled on an unwritten technicality.—Bloom6132 (talk) 11:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) There is an established rule, yes. It's at Wikipedia:In the news#Procedure for posting: 'Singular events that took place more than seven days prior to their nomination are considered stale, as well as any event that is older than the oldest entry in the current "In the News" box. It goes on to say that Recent Deaths are considered separate from standard blurbs for this purpose, which I assume means the rule applies to both standard blurbs and RDs, but with each maintaining its own timeline. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Amakuru: Since the "established rule" does indeed say that "Recent Deaths are considered separate from standard blurbs for this purpose", I'd interpret that as meaning that it doesn't apply to Recent Deaths. If it was intended to follow a separate timeline, that would have been stated in the rule. But it isn't. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have broken convention here on ITN before to post supposedly stale RDs based on reporting date. We ought to be able to do the same here.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 13:10, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are a lot of RD nominations competing for limited space; this one came too late. Even if we go by reported date, it's still stale. Sorry.-- P-K3 (talk) 14:04, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Should've been earlier if ever. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 11

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 11


(Posted) RD: Gabriella Tucci

Article: Gabriella Tucci (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Stampa
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The soprano who holds the record for having sung most Verdi roles at the Metropolitan Opera. Had only 2 offline sources so far, was otherwise acceptable already. Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jyotsna Bhatt

Article: Jyotsna Bhatt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article may require some copyediting. Nizil (talk) 09:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support is a bit short but has the in-text refs. Only possible issue is if the sources are not reliable, which I do not know. Everything else is good. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RDAmakuru (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Frank Bolling

Article:Frank Bolling (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):WKRG-TV (CBS); WALA-TV (Fox)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 07:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Comet NEOWISE

Proposed image
Article:C/2020 F3 (NEOWISE) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The brightest comet of the 21st century, NEOWISE (pictured), is now visible to the naked eye. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Comet NEOWISE (pictured) reaches naked eye visibility in the Northern Hemisphere.
News source(s):National Geographic; BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Great comets are WP:ITN/R and this one is looking good Andrew🐉(talk) 19:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

at dawn over the California desert
  • Support ok article, is a bit short but covers everything that a reader needs to know. Missing 1 in-text ref but other then that, this is great. Thanks Andrew Davidson for nominating this, definitely is something I'll be looking forward to. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – A nice little (200 words) guide with basic info for would-be comet spotters, but any posting on ITN would depend on article expansion, which should be doable as the visible phenomenon peaks in a week or so. – Sca (talk) 20:28, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. NEOWISE is a bright comet for sure, but it's not the brightest of the century. That distinction belongs to Comet McNaught (2007). However, it might be safe to say that it's the brightest Northern Hemisphere comet of the century since maybe Comet Hale-Bopp. I suggested a second blurb to accommodate these facts. 142.116.200.239 (talk) 01:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Looks good enough for posting. Updated and good sources.BabbaQ (talk) 08:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – for now. Has gained 40 words; not MP material yet. – Sca (talk) 13:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image What matters most for this is not the number of words but the image, which is worth a thousand words. I went out last night to see the comet for myself but didn't get a good photo. I've seen some outstanding pictures elsewhere such as over Stonehenge or rising to the ISS. Pictures are accumulating at Commons now and so we should look for a good one. I quite like the dawn images such as the California desert image (right). Andrew🐉(talk) 13:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A picture may be worth a thousand words elsewhere, but this here is an encyclopedia. Pictures complement the words, they don't replace them. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Am I hearing this straight? Forgo any quality concerns over an article because someone has posted a nice picture of a comet (much like many other comets, i.e. not unique at all) to Commons? Is that the claim this time instead of a WP:TOP25 claim? I can't keep up with the reasons to post things at ITN which aren't what ITN is about but yet Andrew et al seem to be convinced are...... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • How do we know this is a "great comet" if that term has no agreed upon meaning? GreatCaesarsGhost 19:01, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
GreatCaesarsGhost, "It's the brightest Northern Hemisphere comet of the century since maybe Comet Hale-Bopp" per 142.116.200.239. I think this should make it a "great comet". Dantheanimator (talk) 19:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your subjective opinion, but I was inquiring about the non-subjective matter of whether this is an ITNR nomination. Not all comets are great comets, and only great comets are ITNR. I've no concern about posting the brightest comet in 13 years. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:07, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, maybe it's a "great comet" because someone called it "great". WP:V is mandatory in this project. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The issue is discussed in detail already at WP:ITN/RRTFM. Anyway, it doesn't really matter because the existing blurbs are junk like a bus plunge which has no WP:ITN/R standing and just about no readers too. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why would a bus disaster need a listing at ITNR? Why does the lack of "bus disasters" at ITNR consign this one to being "junk"? I'm sorely confused by you Andrew. One minute it's pageviews, like trying to turn ITN into WP:TOP25, next it's suggesting that items already posted are "junk" if they have no (sic) "ITN/R standing". How bizarre. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did read ITNR, Andrew. Did you? There is zero discussion of the problem raised here - that you cannot make a subset of a normally occurring phenomena ITNR without distinguishing that subset. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
GreatCaesarsGhost, the footnote defines "Great comet" as "clearly visible by naked eye even to those who weren't specifically looking for it". AFAICT, this meets the criteria. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 06:36, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
over the Golden Gate

(Closed) ABS-CBN franchise renewal controversy

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article:ABS-CBN franchise renewal controversy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The ABS-CBN, the Philippines' largest broadcasting network, is denied of a franchise renewal by the House of Representatives. This is the second time the network has been closed down by the government, with the first during the Martial Law under Ferdinand Marcos. (Post)
Alternative blurb:The ABS-CBN, the Philippines' largest broadcasting network, is denied of a franchise renewal by the House of Representatives.
Alternative blurb II:ABS-CBN, the Philippines' largest broadcasting network, is closed by the Philippine government for the second time.
News source(s):NY Times, Inquirer, Yahoo, BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Big news in the Philippines and is covered by multiple news organizations around the world. This is the largest broadcast network in the Philippines being shut down. This roots from a threat by none other than the Philippine president and backed by his allies in the HOR. HiwilmsTalk 16:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support article is ok, has some missing in-text refs though. Maybe a different blurb though? This one feels unnecessarily long and wordy. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC) Oppose per LaserLegs. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    • Comment: Same thoughts on the blurb I've created. Maybe you could suggest some alt blurbs? I can't think well following this shut down. There's just too many problems in the PH right now. HiwilmsTalk 16:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Both alt blurbs are good. Yeah, same here Hiwilms. This lockdown has definitely had a huge psychological impact on me as well. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We already posted this back in May --LaserLegs (talk) 18:56, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Legs, we can't keep regurgitating the same problem. If this is a chronic story, Ongoing is the way ahead, but this doesn't feel significant enough for that. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Parochial politix; little general significance beyond reflecting on Duterte. Suggest close. – Sca (talk) 20:12, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all. This has been dragging on and hasn't reached international significance except for a few moments. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 01:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Close? I don't think the necessary consensus will develop anytime soon. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Marked attention. – Sca (talk) 21:03, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • If we stop responding, it's the same as closing without shutting out feedback from newcomers. We really ought stop closing noms before they expire --LaserLegs (talk) 21:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't agree that pre-expiration closes are bad, especially when consensus is unlikely to emerge and attention is better served with other candidates, but at that point it should be a natural close without someone expressly asking for one (unless, of course, the proposed item is bound to create a shitstorm in the discussion without any benefit or likelihood of posting, when such calls are appropriate). – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 22:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jack Charlton

Article: Jack Charlton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 1966 FIFA World Cup winner and manager of the Republic of Ireland football team The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support article is GA. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - article looks good Spiderone 08:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft oppose given a couple of cn tags, but a definite support once they are cleared up. - SchroCat (talk) 08:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soft oppose per SchroCat, but good to go when cites are sorted. I was a little concerned about how much was cited to his autobiography, but unlike the Chau example below, it seems to be mainly for verifying objective facts rather than opinions, so that's OK. — Amakuru (talk) 09:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support pending the cn's being fixed JW 1961 Talk 09:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't really see an issue with cn, the majority of the article is pretty good. Govvy (talk) 10:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment He was such a large figure in English footballing history, can we make this more of an ITN blurb than an RD? Govvy (talk) 10:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the vast majority of the article is self-sourced, and it should not be a GA Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don’t mean this facetiously, but how much of his autobiography do you think Charlton actually wrote himself? His collaborator, Peter Byrne is a respected Irish Times journalist and presumably did his own research as well. P-K3 (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support an icon of English football. The article is also a GA. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 11:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as the issue with citations has been fixed. Black Kite (talk) 12:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This should be in July 10, not here (July 11). He died July 10. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:23, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • News of his death was not released until 11th, which is the metric we work by. Black Kite (talk) 20:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, thanks for telling me Black Kite. I always just assumed it was the day they died. Always appreciate it when veteran editors like you help out us newbies. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Morris Cerullo

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Morris Cerullo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [38]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American pentecostal evangelist who traveled extensively around the world for his ministry. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 10

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 10


(Posted) RD: Mike Ryan (catcher)

Article:Mike Ryan (catcher) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; The Philadelphia Inquirer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on July 7, but only reported on July 10. Bloom6132 (talk) 11:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lara van Ruijven

Article:Lara van Ruijven (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Associated Press; NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 02:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Bulgaria and Croatia join ERM II

Article: European Exchange Rate Mechanism (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Bulgaria and Croatia join ERM II, their first major step into joining the Eurozone. (Post)
Alternative blurb: In their first major step to adoption of the Euro, Bulgaria and Croatia join ERM II.
Alternative blurb II: The ECB accepts Bulgaria and Croatia into ERM II, the first major step to adoption of the Euro.
News source(s): [39]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This is first expansion of Eurozone in over a decade! Congrats Bulgaria and Croatia. Съединението прави силата! Dantheanimator (talk) 17:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak Oppose While the proposed article appears to be in good shape, what makes me reluctant to support it is that joining the ERM II is just that; a step in adopting the euro. According to the article linked it would take at least three more years for it to actually be adopted, which in my opinion would be way more notable. Also it seems that the "European Exchange Rate Mechanism" should be the main article here since that is the stage being joined. Mount Patagonia (talk) 18:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your point Mount Patagonia and that's why I said in my comment "first expansion of Eurozone in over a decade". This should make it noteworthy. Changed main article to ERM II per your recommendation. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I think it might help if you compared this too the granting of observer status in the UN to Palestine, which is a major step towards UN membership to Palestine. The former is seen as significant in the world of international politics. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is actually significant, because it represents the first notable european event which strengthens/builds the EU since brexit. Also while ERM II is just one of many steps to joining the Eurozone, it's similar to a "path of no-return" for euro adoption in new members, excluding countries which had a historic opt-out for eurozone adoption. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 20:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for the reasons above. It's technical, dry, a bit procedural, so I get why it's not lighting up like a certain AfD I could mention, cough cough Kanye ahem, but this is news. And it's important news within its sphere. doktorb wordsdeeds 22:17, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support decently referenced article, important in the EU per IP above JW 1961 Talk 13:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, basically per Mount Patagonia. As and when they join the euro itself, that would be the time to post. — Amakuru (talk) 14:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru Yes, that would also be significant but this is also significant for the reasons above. These reasons should definitely be sufficient for this to be posted. Definitely also consider that "this is first expansion of Eurozone in over a decade". Dantheanimator (talk) 16:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not though, is it... the ERM is not the eurozone and this is just one of several steps towards membership. I guess the potential accession to the euro itself is still at least three years away though, if the article is to be believed, so maybe it's not a big deal to run it again when that happens. I don't personally consider this a big enough story to post, but will change my !vote to Neutral and leave it to others to decide one way or the other. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 16:36, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Singaporean general election

Article:2020 Singaporean general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The opposition in Singapore wins its second Group Representation Constituency while the People's Action Party led by Lee Hsien Loong retains its supermajority in the Singaporean general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb:The People's Action Party led by Lee Hsien Loong retains its supermajority in the Singaporean general election.
Alternative blurb II:In the Singaporean general election, Lee Hsien Loong is re-elected Prime Minister as his People's Action Party retains its supermajority.
Alternative blurb III:In the Singaporean general election, Lee Hsien Loong is re-elected Prime Minister as his People's Action Party retains its supermajority, while the opposition Workers' Party wins its second Group Representation Constituency.
News source(s):BBC, NY Times, Straits Times
Credits:
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 00:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose on quality - there doesn't appear to be a prose update on the results, and the article is generally an unreadable mess of massive unstructured tables. A better blurb would also be needed. Kingsif (talk) 01:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: Would it be better if a large part of the timeline tables are removed and rewritten as prose at a later date? As for the blurb, what problems do you have with it and what would you suggest? Darylgolden(talk)Ping when replying 01:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reworking most of the tables into at least manageable tables would be ideal. The blurb should tell me who won, not ramble for a few clauses about different parties before even mentioning the election. Kingsif (talk) 02:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Kingsif: I don't think there's enough time to do that if it were to be listed on ITN. I'm thinking of significantly trimming to a manageable size and detail and then rewriting as prose after ITN. The timeline is probably way too detailed anyways. As for the blurb, how about the alt blurb? Darylgolden(talk)Ping when replying 02:12, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As long as you don't trim too much, just make it digestible. I've suggested alt2. Kingsif (talk) 02:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Which parts in particular do you think need trimming? Should the "non-official" events in the timeline (not official announcements or registration of candidates but rather political warring) be trimmed or entirely removed and readded at a later date? Darylgolden(talk)Ping when replying 02:35, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps look at other election articles? Kingsif (talk) 02:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose looking better, but the source tag in the analysis section has been removed without any sources being added? Kingsif (talk) 19:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The analysis section has been removed by Robertsky. I agree that it was OR. Darylgolden(talk)Ping when replying 23:24, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support and marking as ready. Kingsif (talk) 00:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2. – robertsky (talk) 02:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt or alt2 can. Sculture65 (talk) 04:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb2 per nom. 36.77.93.247 (talk) 08:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt or alt2 -- AquaDTRS (talk) 09:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Either the original blurb (preferred) or the 2nd alt blurb. The Workers' Party winning its 2nd GRC has been noted in international media, like the BBC, the New York Times and SCMP etc, so it would be a bit weird to omit the opposition's performance from the blurb; nevertheless, it seems consensus has settled on the 2nd alt blurb, which is also a good blurb. JaventheAldericky (talk) 13:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Changing preferred support to that of the 3rd alt blurb; however again if consensus prefers the 2nd alt blurb, I'm still good with that. JaventheAldericky (talk) 19:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The mess of the tables pointed out by Kingsif have been removed and most of the relevant events condensed into paragraphs. Seloloving (talk) 15:11, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb 1 per above. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose per Kingsif's point. Although it's good that the prose was updated, and is good to go, there are still too many tables, giving information of dubious interest such as "Sample count accuracies". This seems to be a case of WP:NOTREPO. Also, I can't see sourcing for any of the "Analysis" section. — Amakuru (talk) 17:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The analysis section has been removed by Robertsky. I agree that it was OR. Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 23:20, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted - my objection above has been dealt with, and other than that there was consensus for this. — Amakuru (talk) 14:37, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hagia Sophia

Proposed image
Article:Hagia Sophia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Hagia Sophia mosque becomes mosque again. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan signs a decree annulling the status of the Hagia Sophia as a museum, reverting it to a mosque against secular protests.
Alternative blurb II:Turkey's Council of State undesignates the Hagia Sophia as a museum and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declares it a mosque again.
Alternative blurb III:Hagia Sophia in Istanbul is converted from a museum back to a mosque.
Alternative blurb IV:Ataturk‘s 1934 decree transforming Hagia Sophia into a museum is reverted by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
News source(s):aljazeera, [40], CNN, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Abutalub (talk) 14:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment – Significance? – Sca (talk) 14:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sca, it is very important for Christians. And also this wikipedia is for English-speakers many of whom practise Christianity.— Abutalub (talk) 15:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from the religious significance, no one has mentioned the huge historical value in this church. Even as an American, where we learn little to nothing about the Eastern world, this church was in my history curriculum. Also, at the time of its construction, it had one of the largest domes in the world, the most buttresses, and was one of the largest Christian churches too. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: The last sentence of the opening paragraph says all: It is considered the epitome of Eastern Roman architecture and is said to have "changed the history of architecture".--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Said by two people most of us have never heard of, according to the footnotes. – Sca (talk) 20:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sca how do you not know the significance of the Hagia Sofia? It has a significant purpose historically, as it was the main church of Constantinople (Istanbul). Also, as mentioned earlier, it is the epitome of Byzantine architecture and was an architectural feat at its time. If you want to know more why this is so historically important/significant, please read about Byzantine history and the Hagia Sofia itself. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, Dan, I was criticizing the weasel-wording "is said to be." No doubt it's an important structure historically. But I don't see how this change makes a big diff. in its significance. It's not as if they were tearing it down. – Sca (talk) 22:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I'm very sorry then. I completely misunderstood you. I thought you were questioning the significance of the church itself, not the event. The event, I agree, is more or less a political ploy and might not amount to much and should not be included in ITN (for now). Again, very sorry for the misunderstanding. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No prob. – Sca (talk) 13:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Basically, Erdogan here, trying to gain back waning popularity, has been pushing to take the Hagia Sophia, which since 1938 has been a secular museum with both Christianity and Muslim relics, and now with a court's decision, has been able to make it a mosque. While he claims this will not change its UNESCO status, and will remain an open site of worship tourists can still visit and they will protect the Christian relics there, it is setting off some conflicts with Greece and other groups, since they see that as a unilateral action, as well as concerns of scholar of how truthful Erdogan here will be on protecting the relics there. --Masem (t) 15:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet OK, now Like in Oklahoma, this shift in the old back-and-forth seems more like groundwork for the real clincher down the road (even just the reopening day would be more timely a time This is opening day, per Erdogan; the court earlier revoked museum status). InedibleHulk (talk) 16:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per InedibleHulk's comment. If this decision doesn't get reversed in the next few days, then I will support but until then, wait. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I'm waiting till these rulings take something like effect, not to see if they're reversed/overruled/whatever in a few days. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle. One of the most iconic and significant religious buildings in the world being converted to a mosque after having served as a museum for 85 years is a very big deal. I also see this as a headline news in the media.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose This only pertains to one site in a large country. Keep in mind Hagia Sophia has already been allowing religious services for some time, and additionally its supposed to remain open to tourists and christian icons aren't going to be removed. Other than that this is a political stunt by Erdogan, I don't see a strong significance. I would expect ITN about AKP/Erdogan to be more appropriate if they were to introduce "anti-blasphemy" laws and the like.104.243.98.96 (talk) 17:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. per 104.243.98.96. FWIW, as a protestant, this isn't high on my personal list. I am open to new information or comments that indicate more importance than what has been said here. Awsomaw (talk) 18:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Awsomaw It's more about its historic significance, not religious. This is important in Eastern Orthodoxy, not Protestantism (which is generally a Western European sect of Christianity). As I mentioned earlier in response to Sca's question, this plays a very important role in Byzantine culture and history and is the main church of Constantinople (which was one of the most powerful cities on the globe for decades). There is so much more why this church is so important in history but I think it's best if you learn it yourself by reading about Byzantine history and the history of the church itself. I strongly urge you to relearn your ancient history if you don't remember/never learned, about this church. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dantheanimator, I know all about this church, its role in church history, medieval history, etc. I guess I should've clarified that. Your comment was written very condescendingly btw, not sure if you caught that.Awsomaw (talk) 22:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Awsomaw, sorry if I wrote it in that tone, did not at all intend to. I do have to admit though, out of all the units in my 9th grade world history class, my favorites were Byzantine history, Pre-Columbian South American history, early China (Shang, Zhou, Qin, Tang, and Song; I might've learned about Ming that year but I think I might be confusing it with the Ming unit from this year), and the French Rev/Enlightenment, so I do have a partial bias/interest you could say. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dantheanimator, I take interest in the subject as well, but the ITN nom itself seems more like a political ploy with no real ramifications yet, as others have pointed out. What do you think about that? I think if someone can convince me that there's some real ramifications other than taking your shoes off, then I will be willing to change my vote. Awsomaw (talk) 22:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Awsomaw, I agree with you and others. This is most very likely a political ploy with little to no actual de facto effects, only de jure ones. That's why I'm not full on supporting this yet, considering Erdogan's erratic political decisions recently. I think its best to wait on this for now until definite real effects can be seen. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:36, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is the actual change that is happening? Speaking from a position of relative ignorance here, it seems that designating a building as a mosque is not a material change in the way consecrating a Christian church would be. I'm assuming there is no change to physical building, it still serves as a museum, and access is not hindered. Expanding the prayer that is already occurring does not seem all that significant. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're not exactly allowed to wear shoes in a mosque, so that'll slow some tourists down, outright stop others. Also some gender segregation one doesn't typically find in a museum or church. Can't throw around profanity or stink too bad anymore, in theory. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose – Oh I realize it's a historic edifice and all that, but this particular govt. move strikes me as domestic politix writ religiously, and in the big pic. I don't see a lot of significance to it. So what? – Sca (talk) 20:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Everything looks like petty crap if you view it in the big picture, even within a window of the last two million years; zoom into "this week's news" for how it's all relatively significant on our teensy level. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:11, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk What do you mean by "Everything looks like petty crap if you view it in the big picture, even within a window of the last two million years"? The main thing the Seljuk Turks/Ottomans/other regional powers fought for was Constantinople, not the church itself (if I'm interpreting your statement correctly). Maybe are you trying to say the religious struggle? Generations of Christian Byzantine kings (who were viewed as both the patriarch and emperor of the Byzantine state due to the practice of caesaropapism) were coronated/baptized in this church. It unsuprising then that the Eastern Orthodox people/powers would be bitter of the Muslim control over it. This is what I think you saying though, if I'm wrong, please correct me. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You've got it wrong, I'm saying in the grand scheme of things, human existence is Dust in the Wind. Comparing things to vastly bigger things is always going to belittle the former. Gotta look at ITN in the current events picture, no broader. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh...I get it. Yes, that make a lot more sense. Sorry InedibleHulk for my misunderstanding. When I read you comment, I thought you were talking about the church and its role in history not that. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I confuse a lot of people in a lot of ways. This way's new, kind of refreshing. Cheers to the Byzantine Empire! InedibleHulk (talk) 22:36, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: This is an important event in the ongoing reversal of Turkish secularism. However, I think a better blurb than either of the three available is needed. —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This template can handle more than three altblurbs, just need to add the next field yourself (if you want). InedibleHulk (talk) 21:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The building is very significant from a religious (Muslim and Christian), architectural and historical point of view. This is an important change in the building's history and it has been covered in international media, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be added to the Wikipedia main page. I also added Alternative blurb III. Xwejnusgozo (talk) 21:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Still Weak Oppose, but alt blurb III is best if decide to post. Blurb has some grammatical awkwardness. Alt Blurb I not NPOV since there seems to be genuine support within Turkey at least, which is not really implied with "secular protest". Alt blurb II is awkward since Erdogan as President will likely not be consecrating the mosque but rather some religious figure instead.104.243.98.96 (talk) 00:35, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because of how much it is in the news, and the secular argument. Whether it will have massive real effects on many people doesn't seem to be a consideration for this story. Kingsif (talk) 22:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the referencing needs work, content is pretty good. Tourists will be fine: shoes off and a loaner scarf just like the Sultan Ahmed Mosque. The "notability" here comes from Erdogan pandering to the religious nationalism. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support What a bad move by Erdogan. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 04:48, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support because of how much it is impacting Turkish secular history. Altblurb2 is preferred because original blurb is too short. 36.77.93.247 (talk) 08:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support What a good move by Erdogan. ;-) It is an important social action and the article looks good.--Seyyed(t-c) 09:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support pending orange tag fixes in some sections. Quite a shocking decision, though somewhat expectable from Erdogan. Brandmeistertalk 11:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support per nominator. I prefer Alt1 because of the mention of secular protests, but this can be reworded. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Notability seems pretty solid here with widespread coverage. It's rare to have a significant change to a major historic site. Prefer alt 3. Teemu08 (talk) 17:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now at least. There is no real substantive impact to this, and posting seems a bit like amplifying political speech (all the worse, the speech of a dictator). GreatCaesarsGhost 20:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support (not particular about wording) Perhaps the most significant Roman building outside Rome and easily one of the oldest, largest, most visited, and most important historic buildings in Europe is changing function for the first time in nearly a century (and the first time in Wikipedia's history). This is highly significant and I am amazed that this news has not yet appeared here. It is front-page news, comparable to, say, turning the Lincoln Monument into a Starbucks. Even without its uniquely precious and long histroy, the building is one of the most significant in the history of art, design, engineering, and so on. It's function has changed significantly only twice before: once under Mehmet II and once under Ataturk. Had Wikipedia been around on those occasions, it would surely have appeared "in the news". GPinkerton (talk) 06:18, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment there's consensus in favour of posting this, suggest an admin assesses this ASAP. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Ready for posting. Sources are good. And news are definitely for ITN.BabbaQ (talk) 08:51, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not Ready with two orange tagged sections --LaserLegs (talk) 11:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not happy with it saying "Hagia Sophia mosque becomes a mosque again". The word "mosque" need not be repeated! GPinkerton (talk) 09:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Still opposed, but must admit there's been a lot of coverage. This seems due in part to Covid-news weariness, and in part to the fact that the Hagia Sophia is so photographable, with myriad free images out there. Also, religion (of whatever stripe) is ever a hot topic.
    But if the Turks selfishly decided to remove the venerable Christian icons – which would be a falsification of history – I could support this nom.
    Sca (talk) 16:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose purely on article quality. Serious gaps in referencing. It doesn't need to be perfect, but this page is not up to scratch for promotion on the main page. Support in principle.-Ad Orientem (talk) 17:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's a bigger story than the Singapore election and much more significant than the bus plunge and other fillers. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    For the nth time, significance and newsworthiness in an encyclopedia is not directly proportional to page clicks. That's what WP:TOP25 is for. If we followed your paradigm, we'd be posting the disappearance of Naya Rivera and all manner of articles relating to Hamilton. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:58, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Getting stale anyway. – Sca (talk) 12:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Genevieve Westcott

Article: Genevieve Westcott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300054429/awardwinning-and-gutsy-veteran-journalist-genevieve-westcott-dies-aged-65
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Fully referenced MurielMary (talk) 12:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Flossie Wong-Staal

Article: Flossie Wong-Staal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): San Diego Union Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Top HIV/AIDS researcher. Article checked and fully referenced. Fuzheado Talk 11:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Vikas Dubey

Article: Vikas Dubey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian gangseter. Article looks good. Sherenk1 (talk) 05:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle, oppose on quality - article is too short, but this guy has been in the news for quite a while, first in 2001, then now. 45.251.33.227 (talk) 06:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Long enough. Sourced. Good to go.BabbaQ (talk) 09:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RDAmakuru (talk) 12:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Ferenc Koncz

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ferenc Koncz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [41]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Hungarian teacher and politician. Cited decently. A bit short, might need some work. It's okay though. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Could do with more citations throughout Political career and first part of Personal life, will change to support when fixed. JW 1961 Talk 19:26, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Almost all the article is cited to Items 1 and 2, which is the parliamentary biog, which is typically self-submitted by the MPs, so it is not independent Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Antonio Krastev

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Antonio Krastev (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [42]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Bulgarian super heavyweight Olympian weightlifter. Well cited and I updated it. No issues. Should be good. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now Awards box says olympic medals record, but he never competed at the olympics and I think there should be sources for the medals he won JW 1961 Talk 19:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Paik Sun-yup

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Paik Sun-yup (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [43]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Famous Korean War hero and South Korea's first four-star general. Missing in-text refs. Once those are fixed, this is good to go. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose almost entirely unsourced, and of the few bits that are sourced, they are to the subject himself Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - the primary refs are OK for life facts, but otherwise hardly any referencing in this article. — Amakuru (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Mahmoud Reda

Article: Mahmoud Reda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [44]
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Egyptian dancer and choreographer. Missing 1 in-text ref by the looks of it. Otherwise, its good. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment 2 citations needed, will support once fixed JW 1961 Talk 21:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD - I've fixed up the remaining cites. — Amakuru (talk) 17:00, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 9

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 9


(Closed) RD: Trần Ngọc Châu

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Trần Ngọc Châu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Died on June 17, but only reported on July 9. Bloom6132 (talk) 07:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object The article is well-written, very long and comprehensive, and to the naked eye looks very good. However, on closer inspection, vast swathes of the article are sourced to the autobiographies of the subject, and the overall tone is as a result very skewed towards the subject. For example, in the early Viet Minh section, there are large tracts about the subject's opinions and how he objects to certain things, which gives a big feel of him airing his conscience. Later for instance, in the section about the 1963 coup, most of the sources are either Chau's memoirs giving his opinion on others', or the memoirs of other officers and often is on tangential material. For the first paragraph, the refs are all about who ordered the execution of Diem, not the stuff about Chau trying to make a phone call. Later, in the reeducation camp, there is extreme detail about daily life in the reeducation camp, and then generic information about what happened in VN while he was in jail. The whole article has a strong tone of being about the subject's thoughts and how he disapproves of various other public figures. Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Good enough for RD at this point.BabbaQ (talk) 14:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per BabbaQ. This is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • How is an article that is mostly sourced to the subject, acceptable? Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is a huge article and it's difficult for me to assess Bumbubookworm's objections without more knowledge of the subject. That said, the bibliography is largely unreferenced and we usually expect to see ISBNs.-- P-K3 (talk) 19:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • In this case, not a great deal of direct knowledge of Vietnam is required. While I have read a lot about 20th century Vietnamese politics, I am not well-versed with this individual specifically, and not a lot is written about him (apart from his autobiographies). Without his autobiograph, it wouldn't be possible for this article to be so long. As a lieutenant colonel, there would easily be 100+ generals and colonels and civilian regime insiders with a high rank than he is, so it's not surprising that there is not actually much info on him in general books. Although it has a lot of refs to lots of books, mostly these are general background info, and then the bits that relate to Chau are his autobios, eg the 'As a civilian politician' section, all four paras have lots of cites. Mostly these have outside refs, but the section is background info except parts of the first para about Chau, which seems to be all cited to Chau. Then the next subsection 'Elected to Assembly' is mostly cited to him, and in the last para, there is an accusation of another person cheating, but the footnote is just another comment, not a reference. Basically a large part is cited to the subject, and while a lot appears to be outside sources, these are almost all for background knowledge. If we removed most of this excessive generic info about Vietnam, the vast majority of the article would be sourced to the autobio Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Bumbubookworm. Looking briefly through this article, I have to agree that it seems to suffer quite seriously from neutrality issues, in particular that it repeatedly presents Chau's views on things as if they are established fact. Just to take one example, the third paragraph of the "CIA & CORDS: Redesign" section, which starts: "From Châu's perspective, what had happened was America's take-over of the war, followed by their taking charge of the pacification effort. Essentially misguided, it abused Vietnamese customs, sentiments, and pride. It did not understand the force of Vietnamese nationalism. The overwhelming presence in the country of the awesome American military cast a long shadow." Now yes, this does admit that what's written is Chau's perspective. Yet it is not presented as a quote, instead the entire paragraph is written in Wikipdia's voice, detailing this anti-American rhetoric as if it's established fact, and with no cross-reference to independent reliable sources to establish WP:Due weight. In short, I don't think this article is suitable for presenting on the main page without a major rewrite. — Amakuru (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Johnny Beattie

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Johnny Beattie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [45]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Scottish actor and stand-up comedian whose career spanned over six decades. No missing in-text refs but has the template. Should be good once template is removed. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose IMDB is not a reliable source and there are other deadlinks, so most of the article is unsourced. Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Sahara Khatun

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Sahara Khatun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [46]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Bangladesh Awami League politician and a cabinet minister. Missing a few in-text refs and the wording/format could be improved. Otherwise, it's ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - dreadful article. I did a random sample and several sources were dead, and many others were government or political party websites. Note that in Bangladesh, while they do have elections, when there is a change of govt, it is common for the opposition politicians to be put on trial en masse, and civil servants and uni professors fired and replaced with partisans from the other side. So govt and party sources aren't reliable at all. There were two other sources that I removed that were a personal website and another that self-identified as 'Islamic Caliphate'. Given the political atmosphere in BD, being interior minister (interior security) has a lot of power and the events depicted are fragmented and out of context. Political exit/downfall isn't explained at all. The English needs a copy-edit but that is the least of the concerns. Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) McGirt v. Oklahoma

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:McGirt v. Oklahoma (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The Supreme Court of the United States rules that about half of Oklahoma is Native American tribal land. (Post)
Alternative blurb:The Supreme Court of the United States rules that half of Oklahoma was never disestablished as Native American tribal land with respect to criminal prosecution.
Alternative blurb II:The Supreme Court of the United States rules that half of Oklahoma falls under the criminal jurisdiction of Native American tribal land.
News source(s):Reuters, The New York Times, NPR
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Oklahoma is an FA and has been updated minimally. - SusanLesch (talk) 17:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, for now. No (bold) article that refers to this decision at this time. El_C 17:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose per above. The article being nominated should be the court case, not the Oklahoma or Indian reservation articles, which include info on a lot of other things as well. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Neutral I have a very strong COI with this so I cannot make a proper, non-baised decision on this. The article is good though. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this is interesting (though it's about to go down in flames) but as I read it SCOTUS didn't say the tribe "owns" the land just that it's in their jurisdiction. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet Sets the stage for some big changes, but the state figured out a way to create a state out of two federally-designated Indian Territories before, it might reasonably wiggle its way out of this, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've added the case article that I had been working on before and after the decision and with altblurb. --Masem (t) 19:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, Masem. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Seems like domestic politics. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 19:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose All rulings from the US Supreme Court are going to be presented as candidates to the ITN? Tiring.Alsoriano97 (talk) 19:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Please do not ... oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's not the point being made. The point being made is why would every US Supreme Court judgement need to go through ITNC? Some of them simply aren't sufficiently notable. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:15, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks LaserLegs for replying, but I didn't said that. I'm trying to say that it seems that every rulings from SCOTUS have to be able to be published in ITN without a previous reflexion. I support some, but lately the less important are posted here as candidates. The Rambling Man seems that he has spoken for me! Greetings.Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • The US upholding its word with Native Americans has got to be news. -SusanLesch (talk) 00:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I would not expect to see this in an almanac of the top 1000 news stories of the year, let alone the top 100. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:15, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose internal to the US, and even then, only part of the US. Banedon (talk) 21:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Banedon, not a valid reason to oppose this. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Strictly, no, but then there's a conflict of "don't oppose on a minor parochial political issue" and "ITN should feature stuff people are actually looking for", right? This is "minor parochial political issue" which "few people will be looking for". The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose even in the states this is not getting significant, in-depth news coverage. It got buried by the other major supreme court decisions regarding Trump's finances (which I also wouldn't support for ITN). ZettaComposer (talk) 23:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is probably going to be remembered as one of the most important SCOTUS decisions relating to indigenous peoples in US history. Unfortunately, it is getting buried by the press/media who are obsessed by all things Trump and the pandemic. It's significance outside of the US is likely to be minimal. But historians and lawyers will be studying this decision and its ramifications, which could impact most of the states, long after a lot of the stuff we post here is relegated to a footnote in the history books. Sometimes (not often) court decisions really are that important. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • To stress, Congress in 1908 metaphorically forgot to dot an "i" (explicitly writing "disestablished the reservations") in the Ok. Enabling Act, which is why we're here today. No other state is impacted by this. It is important in terms of tribal rights but only because Congress screwed up back then, and (as I've read in legal opinions) Gorsuch a supporter of Tribal right saw the door open to support this solution. --Masem (t) 00:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but oppose because of uncited claims. This decision has far reaching implications across the United States. It sets a precedent for challenging 100s of disestablished native american nations. Also, millions of Americans could find out that they are living on a reservation. Nearly half a million people in Tulsa just found out they are not governed by Oklahoma laws. The land is so large that the supreme court essentially created a U.S. territory with no established laws. @The Rambling Man: yes we are getting a lot of SCOTUS nominations right now, but it is just the season. It won't happen all year. SCOTUS has a habit of releasing opinions in batches, twice a year. This would only be the second opinion we posted for this season. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 00:39, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Er, no? They have been putting out between 2-3 opinions weekly since about March. Today were the last ones for this term. Just that at ITN we tend to avoid highlighting anything that doesn't tend to have major worldwide impact. The LGBTQ employment discrimination one was probably the one case that would resonate at this in terms of world interest ("welcome to the rest of the world, US" type logic). --Masem (t) 00:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, but they tend to release more landmark decisions at the end of the season. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 00:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Nearly half a million people in Tulsa just found out they are not governed by Oklahoma laws. The land is so large that the supreme court essentially created a U.S. territory with no established laws. This is demonstrably false. Calidum 18:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Speaking as one having worked on both this and the case last year Sharp v. Murphy that ended in a deadlock necessitating this one, this is one of those that borders between ITN and DYK. ITN that, wow, half of OK is really under tribal land oversight , but that really is in practice, per the ruling, mostly limited to anything involving criminal acts (roughly 8000 prisoners in the system), and as the ruling stated, SCOTUS fully expects the states and tribes to work out any conflicts in the future. Hence I feel it is better as a DYK-type fact. --Masem (t) 00:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What is the point of suggesting DYK when it does not qualify at this time? Are you going to take it to GAN? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 01:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What I've saying is, as one that wrote much of both case articles, is that at the time, the impact of this is not clear because the only direct aspect are about 10% of 1900 prisoners in OK that may get a federal trial now, and its more humorous that Congress forget to dot that "i" in 1908 as the "bigger" point, which would have been a great DYK if this was eligible but presently its not. (Taking it to GA would make it such). Just because its in the news now does not mean we have to rush to get to the DYK point, I'm just pointing out that I think that's what makes this more interesting than not. Certainly considered what type of scope ITN should be, this decision is minor, whereas at DYK has no scope issues. --Masem (t) 15:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Yes it's domestic politics, but it is also part of the global issue of indigenous rights. No one says "domestic politics" whenever another country legalizes same-sex marriage or legalizes marijuana. NorthernFalcon (talk) 01:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Ad Orientem and Coffeeandcrumbs. Proposing alt blurb 2. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 02:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a comment on indigenous rights as a whole, and definitely an important decision in the grand scheme of things. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 08:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I might have considered this for posting had the SCOTUS ruled that half of the United States is Native American tribal land. But for one state out of fifty, this is definitely not it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You realize the land is about the size of 1/4 of Germany or 3/5 of England. That nearly 2 million people could be living there. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 11:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What you say translates to 0.9 and 0.6 per cent of the United States in terms of area and population, respectively. That's a resounding 'no' for now. I'm here to reconsider my decision at any time if this eventually appears to have a domino effect and a series of rulings with similar outcome comes in.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You MIGHT have CONSIDERED posting the creation for the 7th largest country on Earth? How magnanimous. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as nominator. Thinking though a number of treaties with Native Americans that the US has reneged on, this is belated great news. Thank you, Justice Gorsuch. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose – Wider significance seems lacking at this point, as there appears to be no immediate effect. – Sca (talk) 13:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. While the decision is certainly notable, and potentially a landmark case, I don't think it merits placement on ITN. The effects of the ruling are fairly limited. While the eastern half of the state is now a reservation (or always was), homeowners won't be losing their property and the tribal government won't suddenly become the new ruler of the land. The case simply means that Indians charged with crimes in the territory in question will now need to be tried in federal court rather than state court. Calidum 16:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support largely per Ad Orientum and C&C. -- Tavix (talk) 17:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per Calidum. —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait because I see there might be a bigger story (otherwise support) - what are OK going to do with this? Make something like the Navajo Nation, or quietly fix the old treaty and sign the land back over to the state. If the first, that's the bigger story. If the second, this ruling was basically pointless and not worth posting. Kingsif (talk) 03:40, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Park Won-soon

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Park Won-soon (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: In Seoul, South Korea, incumbent mayor Park Won-soon is found dead at age 64. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: South Korean politician and incumbent mayor of Seoul found dead at age 64. Article is in good shape. Possible blurb? It's not every day that the mayor of one of the largest cities in the world (population 10,000,000) dies suddenly in office. Davey2116 (talk) 16:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support - looks good to go for RD.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]

  • Support - source calls him the second-most powerful politician in South Korea. Death is well-sourced, and blurb can be updated as more facts emerge. --WMSR (talk) 16:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support article definitely good enough for RD, and looks important enough for ITN too. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb Non-retired transformative figure, death will affect a currently powerful city, not just get a lot of tweets. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:28, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    InedibleHulk could you describe how he was a "transformative figure"? His article certainly doesn't give me that impression. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The guy helmed a megacity, if you can't see the power in that, you never will. But aside from that, the suicide of a major international figure for sexy shameful reasons is big news. At least in Canada. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    InedibleHulk mis-typed your name.... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb, unexpected death of non-natural causes of a sitting politician in powerful office. --LukeSurl t c 17:33, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per the above comments. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:34, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support High quality article. This is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:48, 9 July 2020 (UTC) *Only support as RD and never have or will support this blurb for ITN. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]

  • Posted. 331dot (talk) 19:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb This the type of "unusual death" we'd consider , given that he was under accusations of sexual misconduct - they haven't ruled out either suicide or foul play but the death doesn't appear natural (despite being 64). --Masem (t) 19:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb not even close to notability for a blurb --LaserLegs (talk) 21:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb ??? Hardly near the threshold for a blurb. Banedon (talk) 21:17, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Switch to Weak support blurb on the depth of coverage in South Korea, even if it's not very prominent elsewhere in the world. Banedon (talk) 06:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb the mayor of Seoul is now equivalent to Mandela/Thatcher/&c? Wow. Just wow. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb The sitting mayor of one of the most important cities on Earth dying suddenly and under mysterious circumstances is huge news, which is supported by the lengthy articles in major publications. -- Kicking222 (talk) 21:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kicking222, please explain to me how Seoul is one of the most important cities on Earth. Probably if you are an American or some Westerner or person of Korean descent, sure, this city is probably important to you. However, do you seriously think anybody in Africa, South America, or most of Europe care or known much about Seoul? This has got to be one of the most subjective statements I've seen in a while. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I posted this because of the unusual and likely unnatural death of a prominent official. Seoul itself has a population of almost 10 million, more than some countries. 331dot (talk) 21:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Nope. I hear this "population" argument all the time (e.g. "California has a higher GDP than 90% of the countries in the world" etc). Nope. To equate the "mayor of Seoul" to Thatcher/Mandela etc is a total joke. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    As I stated, I posted him because of the unusual death, not due to equating him with Thatcher. 331dot (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I will add that WP:ITNRD states "Death as the main story: For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident) ". 331dot (talk) 21:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A lot people die unusually, doesn't mean they get a blurb on the main page of Wikipedia. The mayor of Seoul!! The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Are a lot of people mayors of large, global cities? I've cited the relevant policy above. 331dot (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This is simply not blurb-worthy. If the mayor of London died, I'd expect RD. Terrible decision. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @331dot: - not criticising your decision to post because there was solid support at the time, but I think there's enough doubt about this now that it should be moved to RD for the time being. You've mentioned the rule regarding "death as the main story", but that doesn't give us any clue as to what calibre of individual would warrant inclusion under that. The mayor of a city, albeit a major one, does not constitute the level required. So this is certainly far from clear cut. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 22:05, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Amakuru The mayor died under mysterious circumstances(that I won't go into here due to BLP) that are unusual for a prominent politician that is the leader of a large, globally influential city. I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree. If you want to develop specific criteria(which IMO would be instruction creep), that is your option. Thanks 331dot (talk) 22:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I agree that would be instruction creep, but as has already been said several times this blurb is not clear cut under the present wording of the "rules" either. And the lack of consensus right now means it should be pulled. You say his death was "under mysterious circumstances" but the blurb says nothing about that, and as you also say it is a BLP and we should be avoiding assigning more intrigue to this than is currently reliably known. To add insult to injury I notice below that the second in command of the Ivory Coast, who also died in office unexpectedly, has not been blurbed. Which is also IMHO correct, that's an RD too, but to blurb the Korean guy and not the African seems dubious to me. — Amakuru (talk) 22:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The man you speak of died of a health problem, not circumstances similar to those in this case. 331dot (talk) 22:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    In neither case would there be any objective measure to suggest the individuals were "transformative". After the strawman arguments, and failure to see the questions being asked, this can be declared as the worst RD blurb decision since Carrie Fisher. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe @331dot:, a seasoned ITN regular, could have waited a bit longer before posting a blurb here, but at the time there was a consensus for it. I'm opposed to the consensus, not the admin who recognized it. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:28, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, there was a consensus for RD. The blurb came along after some supports for RD. Bad call. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support blurb - This is not a clearcut case, but he is the leader of a highly-populated area in a large country, so has control over a large budget/population etc, who died in controversial circumstances while under investigation for a scandal. So the notability is also due to the scandal. He is not being put in per Thatcher/Mandela as that is for intergenerational statesmen/women who died of old age long after retiring; it is clear that he wouldn't be in here if he died of old age at 80, 20 years after leaving office, even if he was impeached Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose blurb and move to RD only per above. Was surprised to see this just now, and given there's probably nothing very remarkable about his death and he wasn't a head of state, I don't think there's a very good reason to blurb it. — Amakuru (talk) 21:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment we've hit an all-time low bar with this being a blurb now. A mayor, not a head of state, of a city in South Korea killing himself is not what our blurbs should be about. Perhaps this is the new Carrie Fisher. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If you want to limit blurbs of unusual deaths to heads of state, you are free to propose that. 331dot (talk) 22:23, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That's clearly not what I'm saying. This individual does not rise to the level of "transformative figure". If he does, please explain how. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I have responded to this point already and don't think it productive to repeat myself. Thanks 331dot (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, you've not mentioned anywhere that I'm aware of as to how this individual could be considered "transformative". You've said he was in a position of political power (not a big one) and he died in unusual circumstances (suicide after accusations of sexual impropriety) but you certainly haven't expressed how he was a "transformative figure". The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    There is an "or" between "unusual deaths" and "transformative figures" though obviously, we're not posting non-notable Darwin award winners. I fully agree on 331dot's reasoning that a sitting major of a major ~10M city, embroiled in a scandal, and found dead by non-natural causes, easily meets the "unusual death" bar. If he had died of natural causes even as the sitting major, I would definitely agree only an RD was necessary (64 and natural death is far less unusual). --Masem (t) 22:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It was posted as a blurb when most votes in support were cast when the nomination was for RD. This is an admin super-vote (as evidenced by 331dot's attempted defence of the posting), as the point being, if we had a clear consensus for a blurb, it would be non-controversial. As it stands, we don't, and we never did, but an individual admin interpreted it as we needed a blurb. Error. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    So I shouldn't defend and justify my actions? 331dot (talk) 23:00, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You absolutely should be accountable for them, as you suggest, no-one said otherwise. The problem is you posted a blurb for an RD, and now you're doubling down by using personal thoughts on it rather than just using the community consensus which is what you're charged with doing. Never mind, but this is (as I've said) a new low for ITN. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 23:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove blurb Death blurb are contentious as a rule. To post one after just three hours debate is remarkably poor form, especially for someone as inconsequential as a mayor. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ON second though, removing the blurb once posted is disruptive. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point too, this was posted as a blurb after three hours. We regularly have RDs with 100% consensus sitting there for eight hours or longer. Bad call. Shouldn't be a blurb, poor decision. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Not really very disruptive. You just remove the text, flip the picture back to the previous one, and add him to RD. It happens quite often, but whatevs, your !vote is yours to cast as you wish! — Amakuru (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

:::*Support Removal of this blurb in ITN and only leaving it as RD per The Rambling Man's spot on reasoning and rhetoric. Also something not mentioned earlier by anyone but, who in the world cares about the death of a random mayor of the capital of some country. No offense to Seoul but, to many readers, it is rather irrelevant and I doubt anyone even knew this guy before he died. As per Amakuru comment, the 2nd head of state of Cote'd Ivoire should have been included. It baffles me how a admin would fast-track this and post it but ignore my last 2 noms. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dantheanimator There is no requirement that everyone in the world must care about the subject being posted. Every subject is irrelevant to someone. Very little would be posted otherwise. As I noted, the man you speak of died of a health problem, not unusual, unnatural circumstances. I did not "ignore" nominations; I am not the only one who participates here, nor is it required that I or any user comment on every single nomination. 331dot (talk) 00:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, not everyone has to care about the subject but it has to be actually significant/relevant. From what I understand, this mayor died from suicide due to some sort of scandal. I'm sure this may be interesting to some, but only a small fraction. I don't think suicide is unusual or unnatural. If it is, Sushant Singh Rajput's death should of had a blurb. His page got 13,684,142 views in June. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:32, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot, also, consider that Ennio Morricone, who had thousands of fans, made huge contributions in music and is a pop-culture icon, DID NOT get a blurb. Further, Sushant Singh Rajput's death is SIGNIFICANTLY more contentious than Park Won-soon's. There is no reason that Park Won-soon has a blurb and image but neither Ennio Morricone or Sushant Singh Rajput don't. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't comment on every past nomination and explain why it isn't the same as this. I considered the nomination in front of me. Neither of those two persons died in circumstances similar to this one. 331dot (talk) 00:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Rajput also died of suicide under strange circumstances. There deaths are very similar in nature. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My opinion, of course, differs. I don't really have anything else to add. 331dot (talk) 01:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot, so will you consider re-posting him as RD instead of ITN? So far, there has been some consensus on the removal of him from ITN. As a admin, you should consider this consensus. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I posted this per the guideline I indicated above with consensus at the time(and additional support has come in since). I stand by my decision. 331dot (talk) 01:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Alright then, I concede defeat. I just want to say though, as somewhat previously mentioned by The Rambling Man, this posting does severe injustice to many, many people who died recently. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:20, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dantheanimator If there have been other notable officeholders of large, globally influential cities who have been found dead after being charged with a crime, possibly by their own hand, please point those out. 331dot (talk) 01:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot Well not an officeholder, but Sushant Singh Rajput death was just as notable and his page recieved A LOT of views, a lot more than this one will ever. Both deaths are so similar in nature, as I said earlier, that it is surprising that they each received different treatment. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. Per 331dot. And I would advocate the same for London and New York. I don't think the RD Blurb fight will ever have a real clear-cut consensus until we more specific rules are established, given the recent discussions on Little Richard, Vera Lynn, and Ennio Morricone. I'd support a stricter measure. But until then, I support this. Awsomaw (talk) 01:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awsomaw, why would you support this if you think this is a contentious issue? All the people you listed did NOT get a ITN blurb. It seems to me that until now, all the commotion was about posting a blurb for someones death, not removing a posted blurb of someones death. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if no clear consensus on blurbs like this can develop or there is a debate regarding it, then it shouldn't be posted. It seems to me that we are doing injustice to all the significant people who were nominated for a blurb but only got RD. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:17, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dantheanimator Good questions. I'll try to go one at a time here. commotion. No, the past commotions were about whether or not you should post. If they were only commotion about not posting, then there wouldn't be commotion, it'd be snow. Just as reference, I voted for blurbing Richard, and then not blurbing Lynn off of precedent for Richard, and then abstaining for Morricone (because I don't know the guy). contentious. To me, it's not that it's contentious that we are blurbing stuff, it's that it is contentious because we do not have some hard guideline for posting or not posting. All the people you listed did NOT get a ITN blurb. I think that this death is quite different (maybe even qualitatively different). 1. The impact of his death is greater. Impact on people, politics, and press. 2. The cause of his death is different. It is not natural causes. I think these two reasons are valid reasons to consider blurbing Won-soon over Richard, Lynn, and Morricone, but I wouldn't be opposed to blurbing all of these if sufficient reason was given. At the same time, I see the need to have stricter rules so that we don't have these discussions all the time, so I wouldn't be opposed to a rule that would end up in all four of these people not getting blurbed.
doing injustice. Okay now. I think that 3 hours was a bit fast. But to WP:AGF, there was no opposition at the time, and so it seems to me like 331dot saw no reason not to blurb it then and there. We can argue back and forth about whether he should've waited or not, but let's just assume good faith here; he was not trying to intentionally do anyone injustice or make an admin super-vote, and I don't think that 331dot foresaw this kind of opposition. Now that it is up and there is opposition, I think it's fair for blurb to be taken down and pulled to RD and until consensus or close.(331dot, I hope you don't mind me speaking a little for you, sorry if you'd prefer me not to.)Awsomaw (talk) 01:36, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awsomaw, I'm not saying that 331dot posted this in bad faith. Absolutely the opposite, 331dot posted this 100% with good faith but the issue is that 331dot continues to keep it up and defend it. While yes, there was clear consensus for posting it at the time of its posting (I even supported it, only for RD though) but now, the consensus is far different than it was originally, with many including myself preferring this for RD not ITN. As such, this should not remain in ITN since the consensus has developed out of its favor. Despite this, 331dot continues to defend its continued posting. This is my issue, not that it was ever posted but that it is still posted. I don't mind you speaking for me, you said it pretty well yourself. This should be taken down and posted as RD until a true positive consensus emerges. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dantheanimator, sorry, it seems then that I should AGF for you next time. It did seem to me like the opposition was trying to accuse 331dot, but it's not a big deal. I would like the blurb to be up, but leaving it up is unfair, as you've helpfully pointed out. I think we are on agreement on this then, though you may still disagree with me on the earlier comments. Awsomaw (talk) 02:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awsomaw Yes, thank you Awsomaw for agreeing. The only issue I have with this is that it is still posted in ITN despite the change among in consensus. This can go back up on ITN but only after it develops a "clear" consensus. Until then, this should remain as an RD. I think this is the best solution for everyone. Dantheanimator (talk) 02:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, regarding the nature of the death, as I said earlier, Rajput's death is very similar to this persons death. Rajput's death had a "great" impact (his page got 13,684,142 views) and the "cause" is not natural (he died of suicide too) and debated (police investigation is ongoing). The fact that Rajput did not get a blurb while this person did is the one of the main issues with this posting. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just because their nature of death are the same, doesn't not entail that their impacts are the same. I think that the cause and impact together makes this an unusual case that merits a blurb. Awsomaw (talk) 02:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and move to RD. In no way important enough for a blurb (look at the article!!), and posted far too quickly for a blurb. Black Kite (talk) 01:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Black Kite Please point me to the ITN guideline or policy about an arbitrary minimum comment period. When I posted, there was no opposition at all, and at least four comments supported a blurb(with some others unclear). Opposition has come in, but so has support. 331dot (talk) 01:30, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well then, let's have a look at the news. BBC News Front page? Thirteen major stories there. Not this one. You need to click onto "World News" and it's the 4th highest story even there. The Guardian? 12 stories. Nope, buried in "Overseas news". New York Times? Need to scroll a long way down the page. Le Monde? - 11th story. Times of India? Nope, buried in the foreign news section in small type. And so on. Blurbs for people should be worldwide top-level news. This one isn't even mid-level. We've posted something to ITN that isn't in the news. Black Kite (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb and strongly oppose removal. The incumbent executive of a major global city (classified as Alpha under the GaWC scale) dying in office is huge news, especially given the circumstances. The story is on the front page of the NY Times and BBC websites, among others. This blurb also helps balance out the ITN section, which has a relatively minor story by world standards (EncroChat) that I have not seen mentioned as front-page news on American websites or TV programs. SounderBruce 01:34, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SounderBruce "This blurb also helps balance out the ITN section, which has a relatively minor story by world standards (EncroChat) that I have not seen mentioned as front-page news on American websites or TV programs." HOW IN THE WORLD IS ENCROCHAT MINOR??? Encrochat lead to the arrest of over 800 people, seizure of millions in criminal cash, and much much more. It was also the hugest Euro-wide police operation in Europe in a while. SounderBruce, why does it have to be mentioned in American news? Your opposition is literally because of geographic bias. If you actually looked at international news, you would have seen it very soon. Why does your geographic bias have to affect out coverage on ITN? Dantheanimator (talk) 02:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not on the BBC front page, and it's buried half way down the NYT. Someone needs to tell the media that it's "huge news", because they don't seem to agree. Black Kite (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • News websites can vary their headlines due to location. There is no requirement that something be on X number of front pages to merit posting. 331dot (talk) 01:47, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Googling "Seoul mayor dead' gives me results from numerous outlets around the world. 331dot (talk) 01:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Googling "Black Lives Matter painted outside Trump Tower", "Trump tax returns", "Aston Villa 0 Manchester United 3" and "Naya Rivera" (amongst others) give me even more. This is not blurb level. Black Kite (talk) 01:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I note above, WP:ITNRD gives the following criteria: ""Death as the main story: For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident)"(my emphasis). I believe that this posting is in keeping with that criteria, though I respect differing views. 331dot (talk) 02:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's exactly my point though - it doesn't appear to be that major a story, because he wasn't a prominent worldwide figure. Even the most-criticised previous RD blurbs (i.e. Carrie Fisher) were at least people with worldwide recognition. How many people would have known this person before today? Black Kite (talk) 02:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot so does googling Rajput and others mentioned earlier. This is simply un-acceptable for ITN. If you want to put major news on ITN, you should reconsider the aforementioned individuals. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was not a mayor of a globally influential city who died after being charged with a crime, possibly by suicide in an effort to avoid that charge. 331dot (talk) 02:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But he is a popular Indian actor whose page recieved more views in June than any other persons page by a long shot. I agree with you, they aren't exactly the same, but they're pretty close. Why do we keep still arguing about this. Just re-post it as RD, re-nominate it as a blurb and get a proper/up to date consensus for posting. Dantheanimator (talk) 02:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst I agree with you about the RD, can we leave Rajput out of it? He's not really relevant to this situation at all. Black Kite (talk) 02:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I believe consensus existed and still exists as support has come in since I posted it. I'd prefer there not be wheel warring on this, but I'm not going to in retaliation, so people can do what they will. And if consensus changes overnight, then it does. Good night(truly). 331dot (talk) 02:19, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On a separate note, there is 4 of us (me, Black Kite (talk), The Rambling Man, and Amakuru) who oppose this ITN posting and want to see it re-posted as RD. How much longer until a clear consensus is developed? Dantheanimator (talk) 02:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Black Kite, According to my version of BBC.com/news, the story on mayor Park is the most-read of the day. It is in the second section of the front page, next to stories about Michael Cohen and Chinese sanctions. SounderBruce 02:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per SounderBruce. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 02:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull blurb, move to RD No consensus for a blurb, posted far too quickly. I’m surprised that this was not posted as RD first, with blurb discussion continuing, as is standard practice. A mayor is not notable enough for a blurb in my opinion, even if it was not natural causes.P-K3 (talk) 02:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb For Christ sake this man was described as the second most powerful politician in South Korea and was the mayor of the country's capitol. For a man of his stature to presumably commit suicide is rare (as in a high ranking politician). Plus its getting global coverage. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb this was a highly unexpected death of a noteworthy politician which made headlines around the world. This certainly seems like a case where it is the death itself that is noteworthy, rather than it being noteworthy solely due to his status when alive. I can't help but feel users are applying the Mandela/Wicked Witch test incorrectly since the person's accomplishments when alive are not the sole determining factor of whether their death warrants a blurb. --PlasmaTwa2 07:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. We have a prime minister of an African state (Amadou Gon Coulibaly) at RD, but the mayor of a single city gets a blurb? Either both should, or - a must better step - neither should. This inconsistency is a bit of a joke. Coulibaly's was a "highly unexpected death of a noteworthy politician which made headlines around the world", and "a highly unexpected death of a noteworthy politician which made headlines around the world" "the second most powerful politician" in a country, so how come we're happy with one serving politician at RD and one with a blurb? - SchroCat (talk) 09:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. Posted after three hours with a fake blurb consensus and I'm still waiting for someone (anyone) to tell me how this individual was "transformative"? Total joke. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SchroCat The minister in question died of a health problem, which is not unusual in older people(he was 61), and he did not commit suicide to avoid criminal charges. I've twice cited the policy which permits postings like this one. 331dot (talk) 10:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, 331dot, but you haven't quoted a policy, just an information page, and even then it's a paper thin justification (the guideline says if it's "a prominent figure" (questionable here) then the blurb "may be merited to explain the death's relevance". (1. "may", not "has to", and 2. I fail to see any explanation of the death's relevance); suicide isn't mentioned in the report - no cause of death is given, so the justification falls apart even further. It's a bullshit situation which has the appearance of a supervote. If you think it's suitable that a mayor gets a blurb and a Prime Minister of an African country gets a RD, then there is something deeply, deeply wrong about the way this is set up. - SchroCat (talk) 10:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that any official who dies of a normal health problem would merit a blurb, while I think that the leader of a globally influential city(which is probably more influential than the Ivory Coast, rightfully or wrongly) who dies under these unusual and unnatural circumstances does. The mayor's daughter reported that she received a message from him that sounded like a will, so he knew he was going to die. Race or nationality played zero part in my thought process. If you feel that the guidelines should be changed, that is your option to pursue. 331dot (talk) 10:33, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the metrics of your decision making are flawed here. We don't know how he died, and although suicide is a possibility, you've jumped to that conclusion based on scant evidence. And seriously, a mayor of a city out-trumps an entire country? Again, that's a judgement call rather than something set into the guideline (not policy). Common sense is a long way away from the decision to have a blurb on a mayor who is dead in unknown circumstances, against a president of a country. It's a shockingly bad decision whatever the paper-thin justification you try and wheel out. - SchroCat (talk) 10:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mayor of Seoul states that "The position is historically one of the most powerful in the country, charged with managing an annual budget of 23 trillion won. Many Seoul mayors have gone on to hold higher office" which is also usually true of Prime Minsters(in countries with an elected head of state or government). Seoul itself has a population of almost 10 million, more than about half of sovereign countries. Consensus existed when I posted and support has still come in. I don't wheel war so whatever happens with this will happen, but I stand by my decision. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. 331dot (talk) 10:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fine. Ignore the Prime Minister of an African country with a population of 26 million who was a candidate in the 2020 Presidential election (and the likely winner of it too); that's OK - Africa is kind of used to being overlooked when decisions are made. There was absolutely no consensus for a blurb when you posted (only two people !voted for one in the first three hours) - and that's why it looks like a supervote. It's a decision lacking in common sense when taking the balance of RD and blurbs into account and the guideline you have followed hasn't even been followed - I'm still trying to work out just how it "explains the death's relevance". Can you explain how it "explains the death's relevance", particularly given we have no idea on the cause of death? - SchroCat (talk) 10:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't appreciate the implication that race or nationality played a role in my decision. The article explains the relevance of the death as does the support in this discussion. When I posted, there were four support comments for a blurb and no opposition of any kind. Additional support has come in since. As I've indicated, whatever happens with this will happen. 331dot (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, there were two three supports for a blurb at the point you posted. There were other !votes, but it cannot be claimed they were for a blurb. I'm sorry but that's either a supervote, or you've misread those !votes as supporting something that wasn't necessarily being supported. As it is, you've left us with a blurb (and image) of a mayor, while a Prime Minister of an African country is relegated to the RDs. Whether it was meant or not (and obviously I assume not), that gives entirely the wrong impression. Given the amount of pushback on this, it would be a sensible step to drop this back to RD. - SchroCat (talk) 11:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I interpret the comments of WMSR, Joseph2302, InedibleHulk, and LukeSurl as supporting a blurb, and the comment of Lugnuts says support based on the above comments that discuss blurbs. So that five, really. 331dot (talk) 11:32, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, I see five. I also see Seoul's GDP is five times higher than the Ivory Coast's. Anyone given a choice between holding either position of power wouldn't equate them, one's clearly the bigger deal. Likewise, unnatural causes beat natural in news. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then that's either bullshit or you're a mind reader. Only three of the comments mention the blurb, the remainder (in a discussion headed RD: Park Won-soon, not "RD/Blurb"). Given the clarity of the section heading, votes in support are votes for RD unless spcifically or clearly indicating a blurb. Only three do. You've supervoted and you're now sitting on that without showing any flexibility. I think that tells us all we need to know. - SchroCat (talk) 11:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have to be a mind reader to read the words in front of me that clearly indicate what I stated. I don't feel any flexibility is needed here. If you can find someone to do what you think should be done, that is your option. I've already said whatever will happen will happen. I do not have anything new to add. 331dot (talk) 11:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The words clearly showed support for an RD, except for the three that referred to a blurb. It’s fine if you can’t accept you’ve erred - I’ve come across enough admins who suffer from the same flaw, even in those who think super voting then not budging from it are an acceptable course. It speaks volumes. Well, if you won’t do the honourable thing, let’s hope there is someone around who will. - SchroCat (talk) 11:50, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can absolutely accept that I have erred and I am offended at you claiming otherwise. There have been many occasions that I admit that. I don't feel that I have erred here. If we disagree about this matter, fine. But that isn't a refusal to admit anything. Very disappointing. 331dot (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Supervoting is disappointing. As is inflexibility. As is clinging to spurious claims of vote counting when the reality is rather different. If you can't see that you've erred in counting, or won't admit it, then there is little I can say that will get through. Such inflexibility is very, very disappointing. I also wonder why you didn't bother to follow the section of the guideline that reads "In cases where a blurb has been suggested for a recent death, but there is debate about whether to use a blurb or not, but the article is otherwise updated and of quality by editorial consensus, the name may be posted as a Recent Death while the blurb discussion continues." Was this not deemed a worthwhile step? - SchroCat (talk) 12:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"May be" posted, not "shall be" posted or "is required to be" posted. 331dot (talk) 13:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So you go with "a blurb 'may be merited to explain the death's relevance" when there is no relevance in the blurb - supervoting after only three hours in the process, then ignore "the name may be posted as a Recent Death while the blurb discussion continues" when it's a dubious call. Do you see how shaky your position is on this? Again, I have to wonder why you are refusing to acknowledge you have erred on this. If you truly believe you've made the right call, then it's a question of competence and flawed judgement, but I hope you just erred. If you can't see that, then we're back to C and FJ, which would be a problem. Why the desparation in having this as a blurb? Given the number of people asking for it to be pulled, do you not think that following the guidelines you should have followed ("the name may be posted as a Recent Death while the blurb discussion continues", etc) would have been a better course of action? I don't understand why you are being utterly inflexible on taking on board the number of complaints on this. - SchroCat (talk) 13:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You cannot treat a plain “Support” in an RD as explicit support for a blurb. P-K3 (talk) 11:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you are referring to Joseph2302, they state that it was "fine for ITN" which I interpret as referring to a blurb, as they mentioned RD separately. 331dot (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb per the excellent points raised by others. One rule of thumb, I guess, could be: would there have been some support for a blurb if the death was ordinary? Like we had with Vera Lynn. Usedtobecool ☎️ 11:03, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Usedtobecool I've already said that if he had died from a health problem(as the prime minister mentioned by others did) this would not have merited a blurb. 331dot (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There was no consensus for a blurb, especially after just three hours. Even well updated RDs are kept hanging around for half a day to a day these days, but this one was erroneously posted as a blurb after three hours. Not good enough. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/Comment - I'd say that for a death to be a blurb there has to be either - 1) a personality of top international recognition (like Mandela, Thatcher, etc.) or 2) that the events around the death is a news story in itself with a proper wikipedia article of its own (and then that wiki article is judged on its own merits for ITN). In this case neither 1 nor 2 applies. --Soman (talk) 11:10, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you can certainly say that, but in saying that you would be contradicting WP:ITNRD which specifically says unusual causes of death (e.g. homicide or suicide) warrant a blurb posting for a death. Please familiarize yourself more thoroughly with these guidelines.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 12:22, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Except they are not that clear cut. It says it may warrant a blurb (and even then, we don't know the cause of death at the moment - it's likely to have been suicide, but there is nothing official to say that, just speculation). And when it leaves an imbalance in ITN (i.e a mayor of a city with blurb and image being given more weight than the Prime Minister of an African country who only warrants a mention at RD), then common sense has to be applied to that "may". Sadly common sense isn't that common. - SchroCat (talk) 12:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say my comment is largely in line with WP:ITNRD, albeit not verbatim. I.e. that deaths might be sufficiently significant news stories in themselves to warrant a blurb. In this case, the blurb made no mention of any unusual cause of death and until 10 July the article made no explicit mention of suicide (I didn't revise the entire editing history however, but at least there was no explicit mention in stable article versions of suicide until that point). In fact, even now, there is no material in the article itself whatsover that deals with reactions to the death, nothing to indicate that the event had any profound impact in Korean (and much less global) society. --Soman (talk) 12:54, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - Are we allowing "unexpected [manner of] death of a prominent figure" as a criteria for blurbs or not?--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 12:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull - A blurb about this essentially personal matter is a glaring overweight mistake. – Sca (talk) 13:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are very few "personal matters" with prominent government officials. Bill Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about a sex act. 331dot (talk) 13:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's time to recognise that this was a bad post and should be pulled, and to stop trying to find each and every way to attempt to defend it. It is most unbecoming. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There does seem to be an air of desparation and denial in the defence of a poor call. Very disappointing. - SchroCat (talk) 13:17, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no desperation in my responding to criticism of my actions. I think I made a good call in keeping with guidelines. If you can find someone to do as you request, fair enough. I don't have anything else to say. 331dot (talk) 13:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The point you're continually missing is that admins are supposed to be judging consensus, not make up reasons for why something should be posted when after three hours, there was no consensus for a blurb. All the responses attempting to come up with reasons why it should have got a consensus to post are not what an admin should be doing. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:25, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not missing anything. I judged the consensus and explained why I feel this is in keeping with guidelines(even citing the guideline) and explaining why that is. Okay, now I have nothing else to say. 331dot (talk) 13:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are supposed to assess if there is consensus for the "unusual manner of death" blurb posting, not just supervote because you personally think it meets that criteria. I'm disappointed that you have not self-reverted after a substantial amount of opposition has been raised.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
+1 The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah - the 'head in the sand, I have done no wrong' defence, well beloved by erring admins since the early days of Wiki. - SchroCat (talk) 13:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
+1 from me too. The original decision to post can be defended, albeit a little earlier than I would have posted given that opposition could well have been predicted and RD/blurb decisions are usually more protracted. But things have changed since the intitial posting, and it is now clear that this doesn't enjoy consensus. There is no shame in accepting that. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 13:44, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting as blurb support. Tragic and highly unusual anywhere in the world that a leading official disappears and is found dead. We've posted assassinations of politicians. Why not this? (Also, by my count (NOTAVOTE), my vote evens out the supports and opposes to a blurb at 10-10. At this point there should be a clear consensus to remove. Howard the Duck (talk) 13:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I made a good decision, based in guidelines and continue to believe that. However, I don't want my decision to roil this board any more than it already has so I am pulling it. I think it's disappointing that we aren't going to follow our own guidelines but it that's what people think, that's what they think. I'm also going to reevaluate my participation in ITN in general. 331dot (talk) 13:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks 331dot, I think you did the right thing. I get that there are different interpretations of the guidelines, and that some (including yourself) feel this meets the threshold for inclusion as a blurb. But equally there are many who think it does not meet the guidelines. There's no way either of us can argue that this is crystal clear and unambiguous, and in the absence of consensus it's correct that it be left off. I do hope this won't cause you to step away from ITN, because your contributions here are certainly valued. All of us sometimes make what we think is the right decision but later have to retract it. That's just part of Wiki-life. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 14:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you 331dot for doing the right thing. Now you can make a proper consensus for re-posting in ITN. As said ealier by Amakuru, we all appreciate you contributions to ITN and hope you don't stop because of this issue. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:45, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 331dot, please don't leave ITN. You're one of the sensible ones in a sometimes senseless place. Your contributions here are invaluable. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - I support reinstating the blurb. BabbaQ (talk) 14:24, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
FYI and FWIW, Mr. Park's demise appears as an RD-only listing (with age, identifier) on today's French, German, Spanish, Swedish and Norwegian Wikis. – Sca (talk) 14:53, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What's this? The Paris Peace Conference? The Korean, Bahasa (Malay and Indonesian) and Thai ITNs all are having this as their lead story. I do see Ennio Morricone being the main ITN of many Wikipedias, and not just demoted to RD just like here in en.wiki... Howard the Duck (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. I don't see how the sudden death of an incumbent mayor of a city of 10 million residents doesn't qualify for a blurb. This seems to be a textbook example of the second example at Wikipedia:In_the_news/Recent_deaths#Blurbs_for_recent_deaths: "Death as the main story...deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident)." Calidum 15:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongest possible oppose for the blurb as per previously raised opposition. In comparison to previously rejected noms of very notable people, this fall extremely short. It might meet the criteria for posting but, considering previously more ITN-worthy noms got rejected, it would not be fair for this one to be allowed. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You've voted in bold four times on this now, and only struck out one, that seems unfair. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Allow me to raise doubt that your oppose is the "strongest possible". Seriously, what a silly preface.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 18:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
InedibleHulk, the first one was a clarification of my previous vote. The other two were supporting the removal of this from ITN, not the not-posting of it on ITN. WaltCip, how would you like me to word it? Would you prefer me saying "Very, very, very strongly oppose"? Dantheanimator (talk) 19:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The three each essentially say "RD only", bit visually misleading to a consensus weigher (unless they're astute). InedibleHulk (talk) 19:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Am I the only one who hears Kevin Pollak when people vote like this? "Objection, your Honor." "Overruled" "No, no. I STRENUOUSLY object." "Oh. You strenuously object. Then I'll take some time and reconsider." GreatCaesarsGhost 19:42, 10 July 2020 (UTC) [reply]
InedibleHulk, I stroke out all my previous votes. This should solve the problem. Lol yes, it does sound very similar GreatCaesarsGhost. Should watch the film again, its been to long since I last seen it. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Struck", but yeah, way better than just stroking one out, thanks! InedibleHulk (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per nom. -- Tavix (talk) 17:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Currently the count is: Blurb (20-21): Davey2116, WMSR, IndelibleHulk, LukeSurl, (Lugnuts?), 331dot, Masem, Banedon, Kicking222, bumbubookworm, Awsomaw, SounderBruce, Nice4What, TDKR Chicago 101, PlasmaTwa2, WaltCip, HowardTheDuck, BabbaQ, Calidum, Tavix, LSGH. No blurb (11-12): Laserlegs, TRM, Amakuru, GreatCaesarsGhost (?), Black Kite, P-K3, Sca, SchroCat, Usedtobecool, Soman, Dantheanimator, Kingsif. Updated 19:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC) Not sure what consensus really is though, but I don't think things are changing much. Not sure what is enough to post, or when stuff should close, but I thought putting this here might help people get a feel on where the discussion is right now. Awsomaw (talk) 22:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You missed Sca. And GreatCaesarsGhost was also initially opposed, although they withdrew that on the grounds that it might be "disruptive" to pull the blurb once posted. But it actually is now pulled, so maybe that still stands? I think it's unlikely this will be reposted, but then I am biased obviously. At some point it's conventional for someone to come and stick a hat on the top with "consensus is unlikely to develop" and we can all move on with our lives! — Amakuru (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks Amakuru. Was sure I missed someone. I've updated the numbers now. I agree, we should either just close or post. No use in waiting. Note that GreatCaesarsGhost was in as GCG. I've expanded his name now to avoid confusion. Awsomaw (talk)
Count my nom as a 'support blurb', for much of the same reasons as the other supports above. In particular, we're not using the "transformative leader" criterion here since the unusual death is itself the story, and it also has significant impact on South Korean politics (as he was the incumbent mayor of the largest city) and even the MeToo movement there (due to his scandal). Also in my consideration was Seoul's global importance and the substantial RS coverage of the death. I'll admit that I did expect this nom to be contentious, though not for the discussion to be this long; I agree it's about time to decide this one way or another. Davey2116 (talk) 03:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll add that I'm somewhat irked by the excessive criticism of 331dot's decision, which was well within reason, both considering the state of consensus at the time — to set the record straight, there had been 6 'support blurbs' including mine, with no outright 'oppose blurbs' (one 'support RD' was later clarified as 'oppose blurb', while another was later clarified as 'support blurb') — and as an appropriate use of admin discretion on the ITNRD policy. Some users repeated the same points after 331dot had already responded to them. Some of those points, such as how prominently this story is displayed on news sites and which allegedly similar death-blurbs were previously posted, are specifically listed (at WP:ITN and WP:ITNRD, respectively) as being weak reasons to oppose in the first place. 331dot's frustration is entirely understandable; like many, I do hope that this discussion does not cause him to leave ITN. Davey2116 (talk) 04:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment331dot I wouldn't worry about it, it's merely a disagreement. You should have seen what happened when I tried to post an image with an RD! (apparently I was crazy). Stuff happens, please keep working here. Black Kite (talk) 23:21, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    An image with an RD? Shocking behaviour, Black Kite. How very dare you! Smiley.pngAmakuru (talk) 23:45, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Everyone who has dared to post something in the template has been beaten up at some point, take a nice weekend 331dot and we hope you make it back --LaserLegs (talk) 00:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb I can understand the arguments on both sides, but when comparing this with other RD blurb noms that haven't gone up, and considering it is not a too strange/dramatic death, this is a no. Possibly worse than posting Carrie Fisher, when there was at least a big pop culture reaction. It's also barely hit the news, and is not even near the top death story in the news, being beat out by Vera Lynn's funeral and Naya Rivera's disappearance (guess which of the three articles I've been editing). Kingsif (talk) 03:32, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Late Support It's extremely rare that a news item that already gained its spot at the main page would be pulled because of unfounded rationales for opposition by some. The death of the mayor was under controversial circumstances, and Seoul is the capital city of a G20 economy, so those alone give as much notability for its mayor. It's also a headline that has been given attention by the larger international media outlets. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 03:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have to wonder if all the fuss about this blurb was really worth it to chase away a long-time contributor to ITN.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 15:46, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But Walt, where's your editorial patience? It's a mere 6,500 words – about 25 pages of typescript. Surely you can slog through that.... – Sca (talk) 20:45, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm counting over 9,300 words, which far surpasses John McCain (7,004 words) as the longest death-blurb discussion, and approaching the Special Counsel blurb dispute (10,241 words), the longest discussion in ITN history. Davey2116 (talk) 00:33, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By golly you're right! A second run of my word-counter puts it at 9,446 words, from nominator's comments to Walt 's comment above. I apologize for this disinformation, due entirely to operator error. Doh is me. – Sca (talk) 21:32, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 8

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 8


(Closed) RD: Finn Christian Jagge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Finn Christian Jagge (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): VG
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Count Iblis (talk) 21:27, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong Oppose Missing an in-text ref, is a stub, and has no mention of the person's death. This needs a lot of work. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:49, 9 July 2020 (UTC)*Weak support it's rather short. Dantheanimator (talk) 17:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Chynybaĭ Tursunbekov

Article: Chynybaĭ Tursunbekov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 24KG
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Speaker of the Kyrgyz parliament. Article seems pretty ready. Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment This article seems pretty short right now.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 22:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Some citations needed, marked on article. JW 1961 Talk 22:40, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose for now per missing in-text refs. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:47, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support looks good, although short. Sorry for the late correction. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:23, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Wayne Mixson

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Wayne Mixson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [47]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Served as Lieutenant Governor of Florida for eight years and as Governor of Florida for three days Jon698 (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Several uncited paras need addressing first. - SchroCat (talk) 20:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:11, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose (for now) This article is currently decently sized. However, it has some unsourced pieces of information.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 22:40, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I removed some Citation Needed templates to make way for sources that I added.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 12:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Still 4 citation needed tags, will support when those are fixed JW 1961 Talk 19:19, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - citations needed, and the electoral history section is entirely without referencing. — Amakuru (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD/Blurb: Amadou Gon Coulibaly

Article: Amadou Gon Coulibaly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Incumbent Prime Minister of Ivory Coast Amadou Gon Coulibaly dies unexpectedly at the age of 61. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs a little work first to fill in a few gaps in the sourcing, but I'll work on this shortly. All gaps now sorted. SchroCat (talk) 19:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

* Support Short but well cited. This is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Article in good shape. Question, What about a blurb?. Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Seems a reasonable question, given he was the serving prime minister and possible (likely?) future president of a country of 26 million people. His death in other circumstances would not justify a blurb on his death, I suspect. Perhaps you could create a standard ITN nomination - I think this is being reported by the BBC in a way that might support that -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 07:01, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@PaulBetteridge: I just added the blurb, but I'm afraid it might be too late. @The Rambling Man and Bagumba: What do you both think? Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:27, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So the office of the Prime Minister would be equated with the Chief of the Cabinet of Ministers of Argentina? If so, I understand your opposition.Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But we'll post a blurb for a mayor? I'm not happy with the lack of consistency at ITN. (Not a dig at you, LaserLegs - I know you opposed both, which is my position too) - SchroCat (talk) 09:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A longer-serving mayor, with more constitutional, political and financial power and a less-routine death. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"more constitutional [and] political ... power"? No. Not only was he PM, Coulibaly was a presidential candidate in this years elections and a likely winner. His country holds 26 million people. Having him at RD with a mayor with blurb and image is entirely the wrong stance for ITN (and that's ignoring the tabloid bias ITN has with 'Ooo - a suicide! Let's give them a blurb!') Common sense is to have two political figures, both powerful in their own country, on the same footing, regardless of the possible sensationalist aspect of one of them (and there was no announcement on the cause of death for at least the first 24 hours with Won-soon, just speculation). - SchroCat (talk) 07:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
He had legislative stroke, not executive. Those 26 million people are part of the state, not government, could be 52 million and still not matter here. His presidential campaign went nowhere, never will, just hypothetical potential. There's a reason his actual seat can stay vacant this long, while Park's couldn't. Oohing at sudden violent death may make me a pervert, but this is a filthy den of bus plunges, mass shootings and plane crashes; aahing at lower-profile natural causes would be the wrong look in context. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:06, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb for reasons cited. —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:19, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as RD by default, Support blurb if Park Won-soon's blurb gets re-posted per above. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per above. Although not strictly an unusual manner of death as Park's was, this is still unexpected. He was an incumbent in a high office, and also had seemed likely to be elected president in October. Davey2116 (talk) 04:58, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per Dantheanimator, Support blurb if Park Won-soon's blurb gets re-posted. Two senior political figures, both powerful and important in their own country, should be on the same footing. Either both at RD, or both with a blurb. - SchroCat (talk) 07:11, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. The PM is chosen by the President, who is head of government, so I agree with LaserLegs above. "If we do X we must do Y" is a poor argument for a place where each nomination is judged on its own merits. Same goes for "we didn't do X so we shouldn't do Y". 331dot (talk) 14:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I see the point your trying to make 331dot but you have to understand that some of the decisions made here create long-term precedents. There needs to be concrete expectations for posting on ITN and those expectations are somewhat defined by these precedents. Breaking these precedents does more harm than good unless its a permanent change. ITN needs more consistency as mentioned earlier by SchroCat. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:07, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go by precedent, we go by consensus like the rest of Wikipedia. Consensus can change over time, or from one post to another. Concrete standards just makes this a news ticker. SchroCat (and you) is free to be a frequent contributor here to add to the consensus if they have certain standards they want upholded. 331dot (talk) 21:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry 331dot. Can we just stop debating this? I've mostly forgotten what the main point of this debate is anymore and I'm quite tired of typing up about it. I think it's time we move on and look ahead. Good night from long island, NY. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am a fairly frequent contributor here, but not as frequent as some, given my interests are wider than just ITN. You appear to have misunderstood what my rationale is with this !vote, but I’m sure that’s just the clumsy way I’ve written about consistency within a set of displayed ITN ‘Headlines’. Never mind. Like Dantheanimator I think we should just move on from this. - SchroCat (talk) 07:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Munah E. Pelham-Youngblood

Article: Munah E. Pelham-Youngblood (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://frontpageafricaonline.com/news/liberia-a-real-tragedy-has-hit-the-cdc-rep-munah-pelham-youngblood-is-dead/
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent personality in Liberian politics Soman (talk) 17:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alex Pullin

Article: Alex Pullin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/queensland-olympian-alex-pullin-drowns-spearfishing-on-goldcoast/12434974
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian Olympic snowboarder. Died at the age of 32 while spearfishing. HiLo48 (talk) 05:11, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The article is very much a stub, and the report looks like a click bait. (I know I just clicked) To make matters worse the report says "may have been spear fishing," so even that part is doubt, however ABC does mention a resuscitation attempt, so the article can be expanded from just that single source. Try to develop the article to Start class first, because there's too little for somebody like me who doesn't know the first thing about Alex Pullin. KittenKlub (talk) 06:25, 8 July 2020 (UTC) Changed to a Support, it's becoming more of an article.KittenKlub (talk) 09:27, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support it's a start class article already. It is brief, but what's there appears in good order. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've added a couple more lines, but it does feel like this article covers all the (online) content about him. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:22, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Good enough for RD.BabbaQ (talk) 09:37, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looks good. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 09:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 10:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Australia has snowboarders? Fascinating. Thanks, HiLo! InedibleHulk (talk) 16:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 7

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 7


(Posted) RD: Brad Pye Jr.

Article: Brad Pye Jr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on July 5, but only reported in the LAT on July 7. Bloom6132 (talk) 09:17, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Slightly short, but covers the main points and fully sourced. - SchroCat (talk) 11:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above comment JW 1961 Talk 12:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 12:40, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mary Kay Letourneau

Article: Mary Kay Letourneau (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on July 6, but only reported on July 7. Bloom6132 (talk) 05:29, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) U.S. withdraws from the WHO

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:World Health Organization (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:The United States begins a one-year withdrawal process from the World Health Organization. (Post)
News source(s):Forbes, CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Though this process typically takes a year, its the intention to withdraw during the middle of a pandemic that makes this notable. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 19:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Maybe I'm confusing this with something else but I thought this was a previous ITNC suggest back when Trump suggested he was going to do it... I wanted to find that previous ITNC to review what the consensus was for posting (at the announcement or when the dead's done, in a year from now), but as I said, thre's a lot things Trump wants the US to withdraw from so I cant' easily find it. --Masem (t) 20:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose at this point, though. The year delay is required, so there's an election between now and then, and if Trump is outed and the next President wants us to stay, that can be undone. If it should be the case that the year goes by and the US does commit to leaving then we can post. --Masem (t) 20:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose post it when they do leave, not when Trump continues to rattle his sabre/saber. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:42, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose as per User:Masem although, given the circumstances, another shocking Kung Flu chop at the stability of world health. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:20, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question does anyone know if this is a "Brexit" thing where they can change their minds 100 times or if this is a done deal? If the former then wait, if the latter then we can post now (assuming the article is OK) --LaserLegs (talk) 21:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    What? Brexit wasn't "changing minds 100 times", the government followed the result of the referendum and we're leaving the EU. The deals we're making on the way are changing, but I don't recall "a "Brexit" thing where they can change their minds 100 times". Perhaps find a bit analogy for whatever it is you're trying to say? The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    After 4 or 5 delays right? Sorry if I misspoke. Anyway Wait the update is quite good but "it was unclear whether he had the authority to do so.". We'll need that sorted out first. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yep, I think a handful of internal amendments hardly equates to a hyperbolic "a "Brexit" thing where they can change their minds 100 times". And as you probably know, if Trump is shown the door in November, this probably won't happen, so it's time to put the crystal ball away and declare this as a "dead duck". Quack. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Yep, I misspoke and clarified I meant delay and delay and delay and delay glad I was able to clear that up for you. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No it was clearing it up for yourself. I think those of us living through Brexit have a clue as opposed to some bizarre foreign commentary. How odd. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly, I'm glad you understand now --LaserLegs (talk) 00:05, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – I realize it's not done, but I'm tempted by the irony: It's like quitting the volunteer fire dept. when your house is on fire. Unfathomable. But this won't fly here, yet. – Sca (talk) 21:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per just about every comment above. Kingsif (talk) 21:58, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm pretty sure that the US's temporary withdrawal from WHO happened a month ago. See here and look for the publication date.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 22:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: It seems the main issue is the title of the ITNC, since it was really an announcement to withdraw in a year. --Light show (talk) 22:06, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • There was a process started today, but there is a mandatory year period before the US can complete it. I'd assume this is to assure all funding commitments can be transferred w/ minimal disruption, etc. So there's an official clock running, but again, there's an election between now and then. --Masem (t) 22:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why is everyone assuming or hinting that Trump won't get reelected in November? Every president since Bill Clinton has served 2 terms, even George W. Bush! The chances of Trump being elected are higher than everyone here is hinting/indicating. This will very likely take place. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While the incumbent president usually has a good shot, Trump is behind in nearly all polls at the current time. He may still have a second term, but this is clearly far from assured at this point, compared to any of the last 3-4 Presidents at the relative same time. --Masem (t) 23:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's definitely not assured but it's more likely than your implying. Consider that Trump's election win was unexpected and against the polls, so whose to say this won't be the same? Also, consider that there will be other individuals running in the election, like Kanye West. I'm certain that Kanye West's presidental bid will take away the support of African-American southerners who usually vote for Democrats. There's also a possibility of another email scandal or of the like happening again, so Trump's reelection possibilities aren't that bad.Dantheanimator (talk) 00:12, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • While it's true that this move in the "middle of a pandemic is what makes this notable," as the nom states, it might be worth considering the move in context, ie. over five months ago Trump offered to send China and the WHO help, and both have ignored the offer, up to the present. So it's hard to guess what even Biden might do differently.--Light show (talk) 22:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all; we can post if/when the actual withdrawal takes place. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 22:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good faith nom and certainly merits mention in the main article. But for ITN this is TOOSOON. Suggest speedy close. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:02, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Legality of the assassination of Qasem Soleimani

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Assassination of Qasem Soleimani (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In an unprecedented statement, Agnès Callamard publicly announces that the U.S. violated the UN charter. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Agnès Callamard, a special rapporteur for the UN, makes an unprecedented statement denouncing the US strike that killed Soleimani.
Alternative blurb II: In a unexpected turn of events, UN special rapporteur Agnès Callamard declares that the US violated international law.
News source(s): [49]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This event is somewhat historic considering that usually Western leaders are never prosecuted for the crimes they commit. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:33, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support Alt blurb as NPOV. That a sitting western leader is directly implicated by the UN is notable and unprecedented. We are used to seeing cases of developing country dictators being charged, never some member of a G8. Whether or not the charges will lead to actual persecution/trial is irrelevant. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 22:58, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose at the moment. The process here is that Callamard will present the case to the Human Rights Council Thursday, and they will determine what actions should be taken. That will be the point to post when we know what will be charged. --Masem (t) 23:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Seems reasonable path to wait until case is presented at UNHRC on Thursday and re-evaluate then. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 05:57, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now per Masem. I would also note that, at least for the moment, this is receiving scant attention in the news media. While I don't require wall to wall news coverage for my support of a nomination, if it's something likely to be controversial, then we need a reasonable degree of coverage lest we run afoul of WP:RGW. This forum is for items that are In the News. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:16, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this is like Malaysia (?) prosecuting Bush/Cheney in absentia, and without any further developments or action this seems like a bunch of posturing and saber-rattling. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 23:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
John M Wolfson, i'm going to guess you're talking about this. This Tribunal is not recognised by the United Nations with its verdicts being only symbolic. Unlike that, Agnès Callamard is the UN. Completely different situation although, it will probably turn out the same since US law has precedence over UN laws. Dantheanimator (talk) 02:10, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, I still think this isn't going to go anywhere, and in the absence of a hubbub about it I'll still oppose. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 02:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until something other than a "statement" occurs. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. There is no risk of any binding prosecution of anyone here. 331dot (talk) 08:50, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Countries violate international law all the time and this is a pretty de minimis example. —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:56, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. It's a statement, and little more. If it escalates then it would be worth further consideration. - SchroCat (talk) 11:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Anshun bus crash

Article: Anshun bus crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: A bus carrying students to an exam plunges into a reservoir in Anshun, Guizhou, China, killing 21 and leaving 16 injured. (Post)
Alternative blurb: 21 are killed and 16 injured after a bus carrying students to an exam plunges into a reservoir in Anshun, Guizhou, China.
Alternative blurb II: After a bus carrying students plunges into a reservoir in Anshun, Guizhou, China, 21 are killed and 16 injured.
Alternative blurb III: A bus crash in Anshun, China kills 21 people and injures 16.
News source(s): [50]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: If the Kyushu floods were accepted, this should too! Dantheanimator (talk) 19:53, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • LaserLegs Well, strictly speaking yes, you are correct. I actually remember that crash (I wasn't officially with wiki at the time) and didn't think much of it. However, unlike that crash, this crash led to the deaths of mostly students. Arguably, this is as notable as the Umpqua Community College school shooting. You definitely have a point though but consider that if the Kyushu floods made it, this should too, since both are as "notable". Dantheanimator (talk) 00:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what the fact that the victims were students has to do with it - deaths are deaths, and I've never heard of us adding any weighting based on their age or education status. Also you can't compare road traffic fatalities, which happen literally every day, with school shootings. 20 deaths is quite a lot though, and although I note that I opposed the limousine crash, in retrospect that was probably an error and it should have been posted. ITN can be a tricky quagmire at times though. I posted this one because there seemed to be broad consensus, but if that changes we can rethink. — Amakuru (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Short article but the content is there and sourced. Normally regular passenger traffic accidents we don't cover but this is sufficiently large to be included. --Masem (t) 23:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Masem You also opposed Schoharie. Do you believe that 21 deaths is sufficiently large, but 20 is an "unfortunate traffic accident"? 75.188.224.208 (talk) 16:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak support The article is well-sourced but it's pretty short.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 23:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support An 8000-byte-long article is undoubtedly long enough to tell the readers all the important information.--TongcyDai (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - long enough. Good sourcing.BabbaQ (talk) 14:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • PostedAmakuru (talk) 14:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per LaserLegs. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:10, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No opinion here, but I'd just like to thank ITN editors for putting a bus plunge article (including those exact words!) on the main page. :) Robofish (talk) 15:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to ask if we could adjust the blurb to "A bus plunges into a reservoir in Anshun, China, killing 21 people and injuring 16.". --LaserLegs (talk) 18:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose We just posted an article into ITN about a bus that plunged into a river 4 days ago? Recommend Speedy Close. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 20:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • At a minimum, lets try to get the ordering right, it should be 2nd after the Kyushu floods, which are still going on. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 04:40, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's a literal bus plunge story? We are not even trying anymore, I see. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, GreatCaesarsGhost (talk·contribs) you didn't complain when the Kyushu floods were accepted. I agree with you though, the standards here have been made way to low by very poor precedents. There needs to be reform. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:59, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dantheanimator We don't necessarily go by "precedents", we consider each nomination on it's own merits. This is because every contributor has their own opinions. Many people have tried to design a rule to keep out what they see as undesirable, and not often succeeded. That's just instruction creep. 331dot (talk) 21:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
331dot Yes, I get that each article is judged in it's own merit but their exists a minimum bar for inclusion in ITN. This bar is set by the community and sort of defined through its application. Ignoring this bar is akin to ignoring the purpose of ITN. By posting the mayor of Seoul, you more or less lowered the bar to a record low (as mentioned earlier by TheRamblingMan). This is what the main issue is in my understanding. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would respectfully disagree that it was a "record low" or a low of any kind, but I won't relitigate that here. 331dot (talk) 21:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the consensus was pretty weak when this went up, and it seems to have swung in the other direction. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
LaserLegs Maybe wait until 1 or 2 more people oppose and then remove? As it is now, it seems like its 50/50 or very close to that. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – In general it's bad form to post and then pull, which comes across as dilettantish. Exceptions would be items with serious demerits (such as, IMO, the Park Won-soon suicide). This bus plunge doesn't seem to pose any obvious flaws. – Sca (talk) 21:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the opposition is, generally, ridiculous: "disaster stub" and "per LaserLegs", who made the "stub" assertion. This is fine, we're not hanging around counting votes to remove an item which had decent consensus to post while opposition is just "I don't like it" and copies of that. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this is going to be superseded out of ITN by either today or tomorrow anyways, no need to still debate removal.104.243.98.96 (talk) 18:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 6

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 6


(Closed) Chiafalo v. Washington

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles:Chiafalo v. Washington (talk · history · tag) and Colorado Department of State v. Baca (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:In the Chiafalo v. Washington decision, the Supreme Court unanimously sides with Chiafalo, ruling that states can get to punish faithless electors. (Post)
Alternative blurb:The U.S. Supreme Court rules that states can enforce elector pledges in the Electoral College.
News source(s):CNN, CBS News, NPR, Vox, The New York Times, etc.
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This article is currently medium-sized. Regardless, SCOTUS ruled that states can penalize faithless electors for not voting for a candidate that they promised to vote. Faithless electors have existed for a very long time. AlphaBeta135 (talk) 18:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and I did much of the contributions on the article. This was a decision everyone was predicting and it wasn't going to change the election. The number of times people have faithless-ly voted in the EC is so minor that its not a compelling issue to be ITN. There are things wrong with the electoral college, no one seriously thought the route of using faithless electors was the route to fix it. --Masem (t) 18:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose just not significant enough for ITN.-- P-K3 (talk) 18:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle I'm going to disagree with everyone here on this one. I didn't expect this at all as per Masem's comment and I think this is significant for inclusion on ITN (as per P-K3's statement). However, there is some missing in-text citations. Once that's fixed up, I'll fully support. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Dantheanimator I follow US politics and Supreme Court rulings and yet I cannot see how a rarely used quirk of the electoral college system would be of much interest to a wider audience. Perhaps you could explain the significance?-- P-K3 (talk) 19:14, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, this is unexpected and interesting. I don't really follow US politics that much (except near the elections) so I never really expected this. Besides, of the Wikipedians/readers from countries other than the U.S., the fact that this quirk existed until know will be relatively surprising to them, considering most other countries don't have this type of political system. P-K3, I'm not saying this will be seen as significant by other people but that I believe it is significant. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe for those that are familiar with the Electoral College, the faithless elector concept is rare, and only has been of talk later with the last Presidential elections and was being pushed as a possible mechanism for this upcoming one. From [51] "There has been one faithless elector in each of the following elections: 1948, 1956, 1960, 1968, 1972, 1976, and 1988. A blank ballot was cast in 2000. In 2016, seven electors broke with their state on the presidential ballot and six did so on the vice presidential ballot." (In other words, 15 times for a President on well over 10,000 different elector votes in the last 100 years). That basically this decision maintains the expected status quo makes this a non-story. (If anything, the other case decided, that robocallers can't call cell phones for debt collection payments, has a more pronounced impact, but even then that's not ITN). --Masem (t) 19:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wait a second, there were no faithless electoral votes in the 2004 election? Wow, that is really surprising. Thanks Masem for the info, its always great to get informed on things like this. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. Calidum 19:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose on notability which I try to avoid, but this is pretty arcane. These electors are partisan hacks selected by the party apparatus before the popular election and the only thing SCOTUS has done is to affirm that they're partisan hacks. The entire electoral college is a disaster for democracy -- let me know when the constitution is amended to dismiss it. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's always fun to walk up to people and say "There is no right to vote for President in the U.S." and then hear them try to explain why there is. (There isn't.)--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 20:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's the right to vote for the right president that seems lacking. – Sca (talk) 21:05, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose hyper-parochial, arcane, literally of no interest to practically any of our readers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:59, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Routine court decision likely to have little practical impact in the US and none at all outside it. We don't do domestic politics and routine court cases. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:01, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Zippo effect on any national affairs in the US.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 20:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above.Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Unless they're saying that a faithless elector is one who doesn't have a religion. Clearly, such infidels should be burned at the stake. – Sca (talk) 21:05, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- not notable enough. Wouldn't expect a similar ruling in another country to show up ITN. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 21:12, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Philippines Anti-Terrorism Act of 2020 Opposition

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Anti-Terrorism Act of 2020 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The new Anti-Terrorism Act of 2020 in the Philippines receives criticism from two lawyer groups who file petitions to the Philippine Supreme Court. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Two lawyer groups file petitions to the Philippine Supreme Court to question the constitutionality of the recent anti-terrorism law.
Alternative blurb II: Following the recent passage of the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2020, two lawyer groups file petitions to the Philippine Supreme Court arguing against it.
News source(s): [52]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Can have some rather significant effects on the HR policy in the Philippines. Dantheanimator (talk) 20:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Charlie Daniels

Article:Charlie Daniels (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Washington Post, Tennessean
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Section with an orange tag, unsourced filmography. Spengouli (talk) 16:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose for now As per Spengouli's comment, there is some missing in-text citations. Once these are added, this is good to go. *Support Looks good to go now, thx Bloom6132 Dantheanimator (talk) 19:16, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. The subject's filmography is the least significant thing to be concerned about. The article is otherwise reasonably well-cited. The importance of the subject nears blurb territory. BD2412T 18:51, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • He's nowhere close to blurb territory. Yes, he's in a few Hall of Fames, but has no awards or other recognition to his name (I'd be comparing to someone like Kenny Rogers who does have a massive body of awards/nominations, and who looks like we never even posted due to lack of improvement but there was opposition even there to a blurb. --Masem (t) 18:55, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until the orange tagged section is fixed, and the filmography is cited.-- P-K3 (talk) 18:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @The Rambling Man: I've just finished referencing the filmography and the remaining "citation needed" tags. How about now? —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support especially considering the improvements over the past few hours. The sources are now there. Although primarily popular in North America, Daniels has a four-decade-long chart history and was something of a cultural icon in his heyday. — AjaxSmack 21:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support well referenced now JW 1961 Talk 22:25, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: Ennio Morricone

Article:Ennio Morricone (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:Italian composer Ennio Morricone dies at the age of 91. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Oscar winning Italian composer of more than 500 film and TV scores during a 50-year career, dies at age 91.
News source(s):The Independent, Hollywood Reporter, , NYT, BBC, LA Times, Italy, Vatican, Sydney Morning Herald, Independent (Ireland), Deutsche Welle (Germany), Japan Times, Tass (Russia), Rolling Stone, China.org, India
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: More update in the article currently needed. Brandmeistertalk 07:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose a wealth of unreferenced prose, works, awards etc. Needs a LOT of work. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:17, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Gerda Arendt:, our music editor, if she's available. Brandmeistertalk 12:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you for the invitation, but I'll decline. While I agree that he'd deserve a blurb, I never edited the article, and am not familiar with the topic. The last two days, I took care (unplanned) of two who recently died and who would NOT get much attention (Nikolai Kapustin on the Main page, too late for the other), while his death will be noticed anyway. I think it's a shame that our rules prohibit to do him justice, but I remember the amount of work Jessye Norman's article needed. Big difference in motivation: she was someone who changed my life, while he just composed great music. You whose life he changed, find the sources. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        ... adding: it's pointless to support. As long as teh rulez don't change, every fact needs a ref, or he can not appear. Time spent on supporting what can't happen would be better invested in adding references. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:39, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        By now, I added a book, a ref for his quote, and the Golden Globe obit. All could probably be useful for other facts if someone took the time. Someone is not me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb in principle. He is definitely the first name of a modern composer that comes to one's mind whose prolific career has exerted lasting impact in the history of modern music and film. There are some unreferenced paragraphs but the article is very well written in general.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:16, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb- Very far from being "transformative world leader" among all composers, and if we choose to narrow his field for WP:ITNRD to specifically film score composition, which is very specific and should not have many individuals qualify for a blurb, there are at least two figures that are more notable than Morricone (Bernard Herrmann and John Williams). Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 08:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    In your opinion. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed. I don't find it necessary to clarify that things which I write are my opinion. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 08:34, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Well it's important because people may consider you to be an authority on such matters whereas you are simply stating a personal preference. As far as I am concerned, Morricone deserves a blurb, and I've never heard of Herrmann. Dangerous to go around declaring that some individual is "more notable" than another. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:56, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You gotta click the link before you self-own like that. As a great Wikipedian once said, "it's always mildly amusing that people think by telling us they've never heard of iconic individuals somehow strengthens their argument where all it does is undermine their commentary as being an exemplar of pure ignorance."[53]GreatCaesarsGhost 12:05, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    And one day you'll understand that I was being ironic: somehow claiming with authority that "A is more notable than B" is total nonsense. That was the point here. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I do apologise though, I have been reminded that some "cultures" don't understand irony, so please accept my deepest sympathies for any misunderstanding here. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I hope that nobody would take me to be an authority on film score composers (which I am certainly not) simply for expressing an opinion about some. By that heuristic, everybody at ITN/C would be assumed an expert on international politics. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 20:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    It's fine, you made a mistake, we probably don't need to perpetuate the issue. Clearly "notability" is in the eye of the beholder. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Bzweebl: I don't think we should narrow his field to film score composition as he composed many other popular compositions and has greatly influenced other music artists (In this vein, the last sentence of the introduction says "Morricone has influenced many artists from film scoring to other styles and genres, including Hans Zimmer, Danger Mouse, Dire Straits, Muse, Metallica, and Radiohead."). As for Herrmann and Williams, the first one lived in another time and is very far from the significance of his contemporary Dmitri Shostakovich, while Williams is great but not as influential as Morricone.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This would seem to support my argument, as if we are comparing him to all other 20th century composers then he is not nearly as close to the top. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 18:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we're comparing him to all composers now (at the time of his death) and he's definitely on the top of the field. You can't compare people from different periods.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:33, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Fair enough. I meant to emphasize that I was referring to your suggestion that we consider him in the field of music composition in general rather than just film score composition. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 20:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Uh, he's probably not going to have the impact of Mozart or Beethoven, but I'm pretty sure no-one thought that was the case. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    By striking 20th-century, I intended to clarify that I agree it makes sense to only compare with other composers of the same generation. Sorry that wasn't clear. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 21:01, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Very cool, thanks for the clarification. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually some have called him the "Mozart of film music", while Tarantino considered him his "favorite composer," even compared to Mozart and Beethoven. --Light show (talk) 23:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's not "some", it's Richard Mowe, and Tarantino has long been reputed in the press to lack a taste for decent art (and per Google, quite a few composers are considered a "Mozart of film music"). InedibleHulk (talk) 16:37, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose anything at the moment: way too much unsupported material to warrant any showing on the MP. - SchroCat (talk) 09:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC) On reflection, and only when the referencing is complete, oppose blurb; should be an RD only. - SchroCat (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb: This man was a giant in the movie world. His scores were transformative in their uniqueness and distinctiveness, and no other composer has come close to his recognizable style. Listen.--Light show (talk) 09:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb: The man was a legend. Easily one of the most well-known film composers in history. And for the record, both John Williams and Bernard Herrmann fit that bill, too. MetaTracker (talk) 09:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not postable in either RD or blurb in current state. --Masem (t) 09:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if/when improvements are made. Currently, the article is a mix of the good, the bad, and the ugly. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:55, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose referencing issues and oppose blurb no media circus and NOTMANDELA. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:03, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready for RD and oppose blurb. There are numerous entire paragraphs with no references at all. He was certainly a notable film & TV composer, but I don't think he was sufficiently influential on music in general to merit a blurb. Blurbs are supposed to be for the top individuals in an entire field (in this case music), not specialisms within that field (film composers). Modest Genius talk 12:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Support: Very well known and critically acclaimed composer, and the people who have never heard of him will instantly recognize the music. However the article needs a lot of work, and it's a big article to boot. Support Blurb and Posting, if you can get it properly referenced.KittenKlub (talk) 12:14, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a bare minimum the insertion in RD. Nick Cordero has 29 references in the article and was inserted with virtually zero discussion, Ennio Morricone is by far much better known worldwide, and by the way the article has >170 citations. I am surprised it's not in RD yet. --Ritchie92 (talk) 12:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's not the number of references total, it's the number of unreferenced claims. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are a few unreferenced claims in the body of the text, but I don't think it's enough to dismiss it completely from RD. If the lede section is fine, it can be listed in RD. --Ritchie92 (talk) 14:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We follow WP:BLP which says nothing about only applying to the lead. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, if I had a for every time someone said "there's no need to worry about all the unreferenced stuff, there are actually 29 references in this article!" then I'd be a Euro-millionaire by now. "It's not how big it is, it's how you use it"...... The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:59, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very funny. Now, the article has no single section that is completely unreferenced. There is only one subsection that is, I would say, largely unreferenced, in the sense that there are currently 8 "Citation needed" templates. While surely the article is not at high standards for Wikipedia, I still don't think that it's so bad that it can't be mentioned in the RD list. --Ritchie92 (talk) 08:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb It's frankly dumb that we are having this debate.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 12:37, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You mean every famous person who dies should automatically get a blurb? Cos otherwise we need to have a debate.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:25, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb – Support RD only (when ready), due to comparatively minor status. – Sca (talk) 12:48, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, Support posted as RD only due to minor status of this composer for music industry. This is not like Tchainvosky. i also support posted altblurb it needed. 36.77.93.215 (talk) 13:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb, you gotta be living under the rock to not know this guy. The Good the Bad and the Ugly theme anybody? 82.26.220.45 (talk) 13:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Internationally known, certainly at the top of his field. Davey2116 (talk) 14:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support altblurb this Italian composer is well known abroad. He was a Oscar winning Italian composer of more than 500 film and TV scores by him. 114.125.251.80 (talk) 15:43, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb The vital articles list [54] is a good place to start consideration of the weight of a person within their field. If we review the section where Morricone is listed, there are 30 names. My feeling is this is too niche to post more than one. The top three is some order of Morricone, Williams and Herrmann, but I'd never put Morricone at the top. GreatCaesarsGhost 15:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    GreatCaesarsGhost I appreciate your use of an actually somewhat objective metric in this morass of subjectivity that death blurb discussions have become. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 20:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    To put some context around the "vital articles" claim, that microcosm of Wikipedia is governed by a handful (and I literally mean half a dozen) people. This is really important: if we as a community are starting to look to WP:VA to underpin the notability of individuals going for a blurb, we absolutely have to have that discussion via RFC because somehow relating an individual's importance to a truly minor sub-project with basically no community oversight and a couple of regular users is really contrary to what we're trying to achieve here. The stats for the project and talk page speak for themselves: here so please, until someone can substantiate that that specific pet project is actually a true reflection of notability beyond a consensus of a couple of people and practically no viewership, desist from attempting to use it as an "objective measure" here. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:11, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did not know that so thank you for bringing it up, but even so it is still a better argument than most in recent death blurb discussions. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 23:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm marking this as ready for recent deaths. There may be a consensus for a blurb, but I will leave that decision to an admin. Calidum 16:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • How is it ready for RD? There are still large sections of unreferenced text, which is not up to the article quality requirements. Modest Geniustalk 16:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm unmarking it, but I found a good book which solves perhaps some of the problems, and which was already in the article but cited only for the fact of his birth. I used it more for musical training, but have to go. Feel free to read and cite more. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb when ready, which it is not. I don't believe in the argument that film music is too niche of a field to be the top of, because when you look at the composers at the apex of classical music, none of them got a blurb (like Penderecki and Boulez, and we'll have to see about Philip Glass and Arvo Part when they die). The reality is that film music is the most popular form of classical music today: composers like John Williams and Ennio Morricone have significantly more name recognition than Philip Glass or Arvo Part. Popularity does bias who we choose to blurb; some might argue that popularity is an important factor to consider in selecting blurbs. Either we take steps to balance against the bias of fame or we recognize it as a blurb factor.
Practically speaking, the RD blurbs that get voted in are transformative world leaders in their field, and Morricone meets that requirement. NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RD on article quality. There are significant gaps in referencing which are going to need plugging before this can be seriously considered for the main page. Oppose Blurb fails the Thatcher Mandela standard. Beyond which we generally decline to blurb the deaths of elderly celebrities who die of natural causes. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:28, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no Thatcher Mandela standard.--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 20:03, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb not niche, per NorthernFalcon - film music is the most popular form of classical music today.Jklamo (talk) 18:05, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in RD in principle It is a very developed/long article which is a definitely a good start. However, there is a lot of missing in-text citations (some sections don't have any in-text citations at all). Once those in-text citations are added, I will 100% support this. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle - very long impressive article that needs more refs. Support RD, doubtful about blurb: as great as he is, the first score composers I think of are Zimmer, Desplat, Williams, Elfman, and probably even Guðnadóttir. There's no single artist among the six that stands out above the rest, and we probably shouldn't blurb them all. Kingsif (talk) 18:16, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD, not quite blurb material. I'm likely wasting keystrokes here, but overzealous defense of the front page has created a particularly bad inherent bias that weighs heavily against artists with extensive filmographies, discographies, and bibliographies. This was a major reason why we dropped the ball on Carl Reiner. If the work is named and dated and they appear in the credits that's reference enough. Anyone who questions our report knows where to look. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 20:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb when ready (not yet). Morricone was impressive both for the quantity of his output and his influence on music and he is widely known outside of the Anglosphere. — AjaxSmack 22:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Referencing still needs improvement for posting. Weak support on blurb if article is ready. Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:48, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb with extreme reluctance I love his music, and he's one of the greatest soundtrack composers of all time (probably the greatest alongside John Williams), but if Vera Lynn or Little Richard don't get blurbs neither does he. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 23:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD on principle (ie that he's dead). Some articles are good, some are bad, and some are ugly. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:07, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD only, Oppose blurb due to minor contributions in global music industry. Meanwhile, the article has a good shape. 114.125.46.42 (talk) 04:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Currently 60 citations needed. Stephen 06:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Waking up, can't believe it: 437k views on his article, but Wikipedia too concerned about rules to mention him? What does that tell the world about us?
    • We could ignore all rules.
    • We could add the missing refs.
    • We could split the awards to a separate article.
    • We could drop facts that are not crucial.
    • What we can't do is leave it as it is.
    Once done, I suggest - as done before - no blurb but an image. RIP. I will add what I can - but compare what I said yesterday: others might be better prepared. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Gerda Arendt, I tried that with Tariq Aziz and it was postable for almost 24 hours before I got reverted but no one did. Without getting to the main page the article did get 150K+ views and those readers got, well, this. Just last week, we had Hachalu Hundessa whose death apparently caused riots that killed 200+ people in Ethiopia. We didn't post it because all we had was Hachalu Hundessa article, who is not notable enough for a blurb as a person and no one created the Hachalu Hundessa riots for the event. In case of Tariq Aziz, all it would have taken was for an admin to post it while it was ready, or an editor to back my edits to the article (it was superior even if it contained less). The more substantial the article is, unfortunately, the worse the problem is. Usedtobecool ☎️ 09:49, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Digging into it: some things are tough to solve, such as in the Munich Philharmonie when such a thing doesn't exist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:21, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    .. then finding a YouTube video which confirms there was a concert at the Gasteig, but in 2004, not 2005 as the article says. But YouTube is not a RS ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:25, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That thing done, comes a quote "If the audience comes for my gestures, they had better stay outside". Help needed: This quote is there multiple times on the internet, but who am I to tell who copied this from whom? Most seem to copy from us. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    More help needed: source "the oldest person at the time to win a competitive Oscar", - I don't even know what it means. Commented out for the moment. Time to ignore rulez, perhaps? --Gerda Arendt
    We're down to 17 tags, and I need to go, real life, SchroCat, I can't fix more right now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Gerda Arendt, all issues that have been pointed out have been fixed I think. Usedtobecool ☎️ 13:56, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • One option would be splitting the awards and works into separate articles, as is often common for prominent artists. The text itself is rather well-referenced, after a quick look. --Tone 09:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Go ahead, do it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'll see how I am with time later today. --Tone 09:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          Tone, I can start right away if no one minds. Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Actually: that part doesn't even have "citation needed" so may be less of a problem than I thought. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            There are two tags but, though untagged, there are also entire tables without inline citations, I can't think of a reason why those would be let slide. Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            The whole section is now tagged. Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            move it out fast then --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            Or fix it, rather than sweep the problems under the carpet. - SchroCat (talk) 11:24, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post to RD (soon), image not blurb: Clearly there has been extensive tagging of the article, but I don't think there is much doubt as to the truth of the most of the facts asserted: that he composed music for such and such a film appears in little doubt. There are statements implying judgement or analysis that might deserve attention: " Though sonically bizarre for a movie score, Morricone's music was viscerally true to Leone's vision", for example. (Although I don't really question that either.) Fundamentally, I see no reason why we should be embarrassed by this article in its current state. I also support Gerda Arendt's suggestion to use one of the images. This actually seems like something we could do in general: if someone is "blurb-worthy", there will be a choice of images to post; the image has a natural connection to the subject; and we don't have to think of a blurb. -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 08:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*I am going to reinforce my oppose on this (note to closer: I have opposed further up in the discussion, this is to reinforce the position, given the citations added since yesterday). Although citations are being added, we now have c.14 refs pointing to Discogs.com and a few using IMDB. Neither of these are considered reliable for any articles, so why they are being used on a BLP is beyond me. - SchroCat (talk) 09:51, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Stats The numbers are in and Morricone is getting attention but not quite as much as Charlie Daniels. For an evidence-based perspective, here's the top 10 deaths in June–July. First, note that Joel Schumacher didn't quite make the cut. Most of these people peak at about half a million views but there was one death which was a different order of magnitude. It certainly wasn't Morricone but can you guess who it was ...?
Top 10 recent deaths by views
Article 01 June to 6 July 2020 (daily peak)
Sushant Singh Rajput
13,684,142(7M)
Chiranjeevi Sarja
1,988,366(593K)
Nick Cordero
1,421,623(1.1M)
Carl Reiner
1,155,890(582K)
Saroj Khan
1,068,488(757K)
Ian Holm
1,033,054(547K)
Vera Lynn
798,997(497K)
Steve Bing
637,931(316K)
Charlie Daniels
495,794(463K)
Ennio Morricone
492,222(437K)
Andrew🐉(talk) 10:47, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So Hollywood was lying to us about being famous or forever. Figures. Get that man his blurb! InedibleHulk (talk) 17:02, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD/Ready for RD I have purged the cn tags, as well as IMDB and Discogs cites. AFAICT, it meets the standard for ITN/DYK. Usedtobecool ☎️ 13:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good now. Posting. --Tone 13:58, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I added some to the credits. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:25, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ronald Graham

Article: Ronald Graham (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

—[AlanM1 (talk)]— 00:02, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for now with quite a few citation needed tags uncited paragraphs, but consider this a support when those are taken care of. Between him, Morricone, and Daniels, July 6 was a bad day for deaths. :/ – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 00:40, 8 July 2020 (UTC) Switching to s, see below. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 05:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and adding to the growing number of those marked "Ready". Oppose (although a relatively weak one). There are some uncited paras in there, but there are only a couple, so this should not be too much of an obstacle if someone wants to take the final steps to allow it to be posted. - SchroCat (talk) 11:30, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose per above. Dantheanimator (talk) 00:51, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Looks good now. For the record, I was not on-line when this was posted/fixed.Dantheanimator (talk) 17:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • although it has since then been surpassed by even larger numbers such as TREE(3). is still uncited, but consider this a support once that's done. – John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 05:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • plus PostedBagumba (talk) 09:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 5

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 5


(Posted) RD: Nick Cordero

Article:Nick Cordero (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Washington Post, CBS
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Short article but nearly everything is sourced. -- a lad insane (channel two) 02:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose for now Missing some in text-citations. Once the sources are referenced, I will support this. No other issues. *Support Looks good now. For the record though, I was still sleeping when you fixed this and when this was posted. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bettina Gilois

Article: Bettina Gilois (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 21:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Good article with no issues. This is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Just needs a reference to the Kevin Costner/Disney film in the biography section, will change to support once fixed JW 1961 Talk 22:31, 5 July 2020 (UTC) Support looks good to go now JW 1961 Talk 22:39, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JW 1961, I added the missing in-text reference. It should be good now. Dantheanimator (talk) 22:37, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Cleveland Eaton

Article: Cleveland Eaton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Birmingham News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 20:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing Removal: George Floyd protests

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: George Floyd protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: I live in Atlanta, so I'm well aware that some protests are still "ongoing" but some facts remain: 1) The size of the mass demonstrations has become much smaller; 2) the media coverage of the protests has waned (COVID-19 is again getting top billing) and 3) the target article has gotten stale (I don't buy into the "sub articles" excuse bandied about in other noms). So, for those reasons, in alignment with the ongoing criteria, it's time to take it down. LaserLegs (talk) 18:12, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Between the coverage of Trump's comments from the July 3 speech directed at the protects, the event in Seattle yesterday where a protester was run over by a driver, and more statues being pulled down, they are still ongoing. Not as major, but they are still an event. --Masem (t) 18:16, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah I saw that too but the driver wasn't politically motivated and it was what? 50 people on the express way? I mean.... --LaserLegs (talk) 18:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • There was also the removal of the Columbus statue in Baltimore, Maryland yesterday and other statues in the past few weeks. It seems to me this event is still ongoing; there's no reason to remove it. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:49, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Still ongoing, still getting updates, even if more of them are to the subarticles. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose I would keep it up for now. Events related to the George Floyd protests are still occuring, though I do agree with Masem, they are smaller and less talked-about now. Also, as Masem said previously, there are still events related to the protest going on. A woman died during a protest in Seattle yesterday and a Columbus statue was removed. This should stay. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose Per above, a woman died during a protest yesterday, and the protests are still getting daily front-page coverage in North America and Europe. Maybe we can revisit in another 1-2 weeks? 104.243.98.96 (talk) 18:35, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. A Columbus statue was pulled down and pushed into Baltimore harbor. Things are still going on. 331dot (talk) 18:58, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose. I'm in Atlanta too; seems like it is quieting down. I'd think that in a few days we could nom if nothing else happens (but really, only God knows what will happen), but as for now, I think the Baltimore incident shows that it is still very much in the news. Awsomaw (talk) 20:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. Agree this should be revisited in a week or two. Does it make sense to rename: "George Floyd protests" to "Civil Unrest in the United States"Black Lives Matter protests since there is no blurb?104.243.98.96 (talk) 22:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should probably be renamed to Black Lives Matter protests, as the anger now is coming from more than the catalyst of Floyd's death. Stephen 23:30, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree with GreatCaesarsGhost, the fact that it is called the George Floyd protests still is quite arbitrary/irrelevant considering how much the protests have expanded in both scope and area. However, we can't just rename the protests simply "Black Lives Matter protests" per Stephen's suggestion, because: there have been other BLM protests in the past and naming it this creates unnecessary confusion, and naming it the BLM protests excludes many of the other protests that are often cited as part of the movement (such as the protests against Columbus/Cecil Rhodes statues). This issue needs to be further discussed on the George Floyd Protests' page. Dantheanimator (talk) 01:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongest possible oppose The notion that the media coverage of protests has "waned" is completely untrue. If anything, coverage is intensifying in most places. And the target article is stale? How? It is true that the "sub-articles" are being updated more frequently, but the idea that the target article is stale is nonsense--sorry. Zingarese talk · contribs 23:47, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Almost everything in the edit history from the last 5 days ago until the time I posted the nom were content tweaks and ref improvements not "new, pertinent information". Why is it so difficult for people to comprehend the difference? If you want to change the ongoing criteria to support "sub-articles" then you can contribute here until then that's a made-up concession. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:12, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, thanks. Zingarese talk · contribs 02:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Opppose -- we kept the Hong Kong protests on for months, even as they waned. The protests are still going on, and they're still pretty big. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 03:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Davey2116 (talk) 03:51, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • STRONGLY OPPOSE - You guys kept Hong Kong Protests even when they were fizzling out for MONTHS. This is political bias from US perspective to keep HK protests up while quickly diminishing US protests. Rwat128 (talk) 23:01, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(NEEDS ATTENTION) 2020 Dominican Republic general election results

Article: 2020 Dominican Republic general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Luis Abinader of the Modern Revolutionary Party becomes the new president of the Dominican Republic. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Following yesterday's general elections, Luis Abinader becomes the new president of the Dominican Republic.
Alternative blurb II: In a historic election, Luis Abinader of the Modern Revolutionary Party wins to become the next president of the Dominican Republic.
Alternative blurb III: Luis Abinader of the Modern Revolutionary Party is elected president of the Dominican Republic.
News source(s): [55]
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Luis Abinader is the new president of the Dominican Republic, ending Danilo Medina's long time rule. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment We generally will post the results (once know) of the presidential part of the election per ITNR, but would be premature to mention that the election is happening. --Masem (t) 18:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the results; we don't post the mere occurrence of an election, we post the results, as general elections and head of state elections are ITNR. 331dot (talk) 19:00, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per posting but Wait for results, which takes place in matter of time. Thus it can be revised with official results of election 36.77.93.215 (talk) 23:28, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until the election results come in. Although, here's a question: if the election takes a week or more to decide, do we mention it ITN? I'm thinking about this November in the US, we may not know who won for more than a week. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 03:46, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The results are ITNR, not the occurrence of the election. If the delay is just the natural result of the mechanics of the election, it is unlikely such a "pending result" nom would garner support here. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:58, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Changed the nomination for results, not the election itself. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:30, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The results are ITNR; I've proposed a more neutral blurb. 331dot (talk) 18:54, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Should this nom be moved to July 7 or kept here? The election happened then, July 6, but the results weren't released/officiated until July 7 so wouldn't it be more appropriate to move this nom to July 7? Dantheanimator (talk) 19:43, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to July 7 for this blurb because what results of election being released. This taught was originally election that are not results.36.77.93.215 (talk) 20:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Considering the locale, this will have to do. Good enough. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we have a statement from the presumptive winner Abinader? All we have are his rivals conceding, and not about him being happy and stuff. Howard the Duck (talk) 12:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What happened with this? Shouldn't this be labeled closed? Dantheanimator (talk) 01:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 4

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 4


(Posted) 2020 Kyushu floods

Article:2020 Kyushu floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:At least 34 die, including 14 old age home residents, in Kyushu floods. (Post)
Alternative blurb:At least 34 people are killed in floods in Kyushu, Japan.
Alternative blurb II:Floods in Kyushu, Japan kill at least 34 people and leave dozens stranded on rooftops.
News source(s):NYT, BBC, Guardian, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major flooding, tragic deaths, global warming effect on mankind. Chuka Chief (talk) 19:53, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong support High quality article with lots of information. The rainfall was also unprecedented for these prefectures. Nothing to complain about. This is ready for inclusion in ITN. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • support - ready for posting.BabbaQ (talk) 21:31, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose disaster stub but since we pretty consistently post trash like this I added an alt-blurb that doesn't single out causalities by age or gender or any other arbitrary measure. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:46, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Fixed typo of LaserLegs's alt-blurb and made alt-blurb 3. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support with altblurb 1 While this is stub and needs more pending information which LaserLegs said, this is disaster management which have significant event on earth. The rainfall was unexpected for these prefectures and the country as well. 180.242.9.91 (talk) 23:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 1 per nomination. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 23:29, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 04:14, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per LaserLegs, we post a lot of natural disaster stub articles here and yet I'm not even sure this one would meet our low threshold. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 08:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - AP puts toll at 34. – Sca (talk) 12:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Updated blurbs to 34 (+dropped the missing because they are not reported in the 34 tally). I am OK with all the blurbs, reports have been putting a spotlight on the old age home that was a major casualty site, but it's OK either in or out.--Chuka Chief (talk) 14:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb I with update victims as the information can be changed in time many people killed in flood whilst still a stub this is very important natural disasters. LaserLegs and Bzweebl please don't oppose just because of stub article but see any significance of event. 114.125.234.209 (talk) 14:29, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • On the contrary, I give much greater weight to article quality than I do to the "significance" of 34 irrelevant people killed in a spot of bad weather and I'm rather sick of these stubby disaster articles expressed to the main page and subsequently abandoned -- but rest assured the practice will continue despite my objections. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:34, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Fixed typo. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 06:55, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Can this be reworded? —Jonny Nixon (talk) 11:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course it can.... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment deaths needed to change to 37 per new BBC source.36.77.93.215 (talk) 13:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image suggestion Could the Russian book be replaced with the gif of the floods? It's generally more informative, and in my opinion more interesting. Kingsif (talk) 18:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Very Strong Support for Kingsif's suggestion Yes! I support Kingsif's suggestion. The gif is so much more interesting and eye-catching than the Russian Constitution. This needs to happen. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Lin Dan retires

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Lin Dan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Chinese badminton star Lin Dan retires (Post)
News source(s): [56]
Credits:
Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Sources say he's arguably the greatest of all time. Banedon (talk) 07:14, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think it's widely acknowledged that the posting of Alex Ferguson's retirement was a poor decision overall, and this guy, at the age of 36, would double down on that error. Plus the latter stages of this BLP are very poorly referenced. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now He'll be back. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:09, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not the kind of story that ITN is for. P-K3 (talk) 12:07, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
FYI: [Posted_Alex_Ferguson_retires][Posted_Yao_Ming_Retires][Posted_Sachin_Tendulkar]. Banedon (talk) 12:21, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You’ll notice that all of those were controversial. There is substantial opposition to posting any sportspeople’s retirements, for good reason. P-K3 (talk) 12:32, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as I don't think this is getting the coverage needed; I have no large issue with posting notable retirements in general. 331dot (talk) 12:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Straight-forward retirement like this is not ITN worthy despite the significance of the athlete; we should never have posted the previous cases as they stood. --Masem (t) 12:56, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Minor sports footnote. – Sca (talk) 13:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PKiii. ——Serial # 13:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Posting of any retirement certainly needs more notability than posting a death as a blurb. And, no offense to Badminton, but it's not exactly a sport where major retirements will have much of an impact. Kingsif (talk) 16:04, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 3

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 3


(Posted) RD: Earl Cameron

Article: Earl Cameron (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Only filmograph section + table needs sources. Masem (t) 20:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support No issues. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:13, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support High-quality article. This is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:33, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Absolutely ready given the state it was in when I nominated it. All the -ography aspects have been properly sourced. --Masem (t) 03:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 15:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Tyson Brummett

Article:Tyson Brummett (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):The Philadelphia Inquirer; USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Bloom6132 (talk) 13:03, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Oppose High quality article however, there is no in-text citations in the summary. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:19, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Dantheanimator: per MOS:LEADCITE: "The presence of citations in the introduction is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article." Since all the info in this lead is repeated in the main text (and cited there), and it does not contain material that is challenged (or likely to be challenged) or any direct quotations, it is redundant to repeat them. —Bloom6132 (talk) 19:46, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Thank you Bloom6132 for telling me. Usually in other articles I saw in-text citations in the intro so I assumed it was mandatory. I'm still new so any corrections like these are greatly appreciated. I'm not sure about this but if I change my opinion to support, do I strike out my previous opposition? Thanks. Best regards, Dantheanimator (talk) 19:50, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Dantheanimator: Thanks, and no worries! We're in the same boat – I'm still learning new things even after a decade here. Yes, striking out previous oppose votes once the issue(s) are resolved is the norm. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Saroj Khan

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Saroj Khan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): india tv
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Choreographer Saroj Khan dies at 72 Mr.Mani Raj Paul - talk 01:38, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Reckful

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Reckful (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Forbes, Kotaku
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Popular Twitch streamer, apparently. Nahnah4 (talk
  • Oppose achievements unreferenced. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 06:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Article has been updated. Ruyter (talkedits) 09:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • When I'm not familiar with the references used, I like to vet against WP:RSN. For the first time, I'm finding none of these sites there. While this is certainly not a requirement, it makes me wary when so much of the article is based on sources that have not been reviewed by the community. GreatCaesarsGhost 13:32, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder -- Would we not AFD in these circumstances?--WaltCip-(BLM!Resist The Orange One) 13:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC are covering his death - he seems to be notable. P-K3 (talk) 21:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't arguing notability, but rather the reliability of sources. Known bad sources are not allowed - what about unknown sources? GreatCaesarsGhost 01:35, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The BBC are covering his death", is the BBC an unknown source? I hope not. I think P-K3's comment answers your question or settles your concern GreatCaesarsGhost. Dantheanimator (talk) 02:04, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not in the slightest. The entire article must be cited. It is not enough that some of the facts are reported by the BBC, but rather "any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source." GreatCaesarsGhost 14:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose His death is cited by reliable sources (including the BBC), but the sources about his life are either unreliable and/or interviews and/or passing mentions. It would certainly have been a reasonable candidate for AfD before he died (and may well still be, as his death is BLP1E). Black Kite (talk) 19:56, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ángela Jeria

Article:Ángela Jeria (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s):Infobae, La Tercera
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chilean archaeologist and activist, detained and tortured during Augusto Pinochet's dictatorship. Mother of former Chilean president and current UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet. Jamez42 (talk) 14:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - short but sufficient within Start-class. Good to go.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:36, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose no mention in the prose (that I can see) of her death. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:33, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Added section on her death as per The Rambling Man's opposition. No other issues with the page for what I can see. I think this is ready. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:21, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support interesting story where you can learn important events. sourcing looks good. KittenKlub (talk) 17:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 15:11, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Narendra Modi's visit to soldiers in the Ladakh region

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 China–India skirmishes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits soldiers in the Ladakh region amid heightened tensions between China and India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Following recent border skirmishes in the disputed Ladakh region, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits soldiers stationed near the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
Alternative blurb II: Amidst a revived wave of border hostility between India and China over their disputed border, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits soldiers in the Ladakh region.
News source(s): [57]
Credits:
Article updated
Nominator's comments: I don't know if this is allowed, but I think this would be better and more comprehensive if it was merged with the halting of $2.8 billion worth of Chinese power equipment by Indian Minister of Power R. K. Singh, since they both deal with the China-India tensions. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:40, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggestion If there's an appropriate China–India relations article, it could be put in ongoing. Kingsif (talk) 19:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Done, changed the nomination into an ongoing one. I'm not sure exactly how ongoing nominations work so if I made a mistake, please tell me. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose relations article not getting regular updates, and the skirmishes article is stale because there are no skirmishes. This really is a thing where we should blurb significant updates instead of parking some stale article in the box for two months. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:37, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Reverted my ongoing nomination back to an event nomination as per LaserLegs opposition. Also, the India-China skirmishes article receives decent updates regularly, I don't know why you think the article is "stale" LaserLegs. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:57, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A visit by the Indian PM to the border is not sufficient for ITN. If this was for the purposes of commencing military operations or other actions it would be more appropriate. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 19:50, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this nom was converted in place from an ongoing to blurb nom. I'm still opposed. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:44, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. A President visiting their country's troops is a normal thing, especially within the country. 331dot (talk) 20:51, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Should this discussion be closed than? It seems agreed that this shouldn't be put in the ITN. Dantheanimator (talk) 21:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you wish to withdraw your nomination, please indicate that. 331dot (talk) 21:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I wish to withdraw my nomination. Dantheanimator (talk) 23:30, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

July 2

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 2


(Posted) RD: Nikolai Kapustin

Article: Nikolai Kapustin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): official site
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ukrainian-born Russian pianist and composer, playing jazz when it just resurfaced after being banned under Stalin, composing jazz sounds in classical forms, and recorded by leading pianists. The article was tagged for needing more sources, but - nice surprise - rich sources including two dissertations were hidden in the external links. - So far, the date of death appears only on his official website, but Discogs and YouTube picked up the year. I was shocked for a moment by seeing the exact wording of our article in a book (and reworded some), but then saw that the book even mentions Wikipedia as a source. Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:04, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong Oppose Missing multiple in-text citations, doesn't have a separate section for the individuals death, and only has one section. All in all, this article needs a lot of work. Dantheanimator (talk) 19:10, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • ️⃣ All we know about his death is that it happened and a date. No cause. Not even a place, which is only induced from where he lived last. I have no idea how that constitutes the need for a separate section. Which facts do you think are not cited inline? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Short but article is now decently referenced by Gerda and death section added JW 1961Talk 21:05, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Thank you Gerda Arendt all the improvements to the article you made, it really shows. I added a section for his early life and personal life so that is would be less clumped together and more organized. As long as there is a source about his death, a separate section for his death can be made. It is likely that more information will be released in the future and which can be used to expand those sections. This nomination should be ready. Best regards, Dantheanimator (talk) 00:31, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If you really believe that we need sections in a short bio section, please change Ludwig Finscher. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's no reason to separate Ludwig Finscher's bio into more sections because the section title "Life and career" covers the information in it. In Nikolai Kapustin's article, the section title was only "career" despite it including information on his life. If you want to merge the sections Gerda Arendt, you can, but make sure the section title matches the information contained in the section. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:41, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ghislaine Maxwell arrested

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ghislaine Maxwell (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: Ghislaine Maxwell, an associate of Jeffrey Epstein, is arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in New Hampshire and charged by the Department of Justice for enticement of minors, sex trafficking, and perjury. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: A big development in the ongoing Epstein saga. Maxwell has faced persistent allegations of being a recruiter for Epstein. The whole saga in general has international significance (for instance, Prince Andrew had to resign over his connections to Epstein). From what I can tell, the article is well sourced and this would be of interest for the ITN audience. JOEBRO64 22:31, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose it's a big development and hopefully justice will prevail, but it's not ITN-worthy to report her arrest, once she is convicted then we can post. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for something juicy per TRM. Kingsif (talk) 23:32, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose We post convictions, not arrests. Posting this would raise potentially serious BLP concerns. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:46, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) RD: Sybil Wettasinghe

Article: Sybil Wettasinghe (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Menafn
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Updated and well sourced. The author was awarded the Guinness World Record for her book Wonder Crystal in March 2020 for the most number of alternate endings. Abishe (talk) 15:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Hpakant jade mine disaster

Article:2020 Hpakant jade mine disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:At least 100 people are killed in a landslide at Hpakant jade mine in Myanmar. (Post)
News source(s):BBC, CNN, Reuters, AP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: death toll expected to rise, possibly significantly. Last count is 120, but recovery efforts have been halted due to conditions with bodies in field. The accident itself is a significant loss of life, Myanmarese lives matter. Eostrix (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 11:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support shocking. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:17, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support article good, major world news - the leading item on BBC World Service (not BBC News, but certainly equal). Kingsif (talk) 11:26, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose disaster stub, and it's not really a "mine collapse" this was a landslide "The miners at the site were freelancing scavengers who were scouring the tailings of a mining company." which is maybe still notable but the current title is misleading. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    LaserLegs, reliable source differ on what is a mine. BBC: "Myanmar jade mine landslide kills 120" [58]. New York Times: "Myanmar Jade Mine Collapse Kills at Least 100" [59]. CBS: "Landslide kills more than 100 in "dystopian wasteland" of Myanmar's jade mines" [60]. CNN: "Jade mine landslide kills at least 100 in Myanmar, with more people still missing" [61]. See also Open-pit mining.--Eostrix (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 12:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, every RS you cited calls it a "landslide". Glad that's settled. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    1. No, New York Times says "Myanmar Jade Mine Collapse Kills at Least 100". 2. What are you objecting to? At the time of your post ([62]), the blurb said landslide as well. The article is titled "disaster", not "collapse". Every use of "collapse" in the article (which I am amenable to change) follows a reference using it as well normal usage of "collapse" and with clear context. (e.g. "collapse of a heap of mining waste"). The blurb and the article do not use "mine collapse" (the sole use is a link to 2019 Hpakant jade mine collapse, a different event).--Eostrix (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 13:01, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - good article and shocking disaster as said above. Sad. CoryGlee (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Major disaster, wide coverage. – Sca (talk) 13:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Article in good shape for posting. Not sure if the pictures on that page are of *that* mine but if we want to use those to show what mining conditions are like there, that would be fair. --Masem (t) 14:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm going ahead to prep File:Jade_Mine.jpg for image protection (as it gives good reason to understand how such a disaster could easily happen). I don't know how best to "caption" it in the blurb, like "(representative mine pictured)"? Suggestions while waiting for protection to propagate? --Masem (t) 14:32, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, for the record. This went up before I had a chance to see the nomination but clearly a major disaster.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:39, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Russian bounty program

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Russian bounty program (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:News media and legislators suspect that the Russian government is involved in the bounty program that pays Talibans to kill American soldiers and their allies in Afghanistan. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Intelligence agencies allege Russia operated a bounty program paying Taliban militants to kill coalition soldiers in Afghanistan, sparking political controversy among the U.S. government.
Alternative blurb II:Russia's intelligence agencies operate an alleged bounty program that pays Taliban militants to target coalition soldiers in Afghanistan, causing controversy among the U.S. government.
News source(s):The New York Times, The Hill, KSN, Wall Street Journal, NBC News, etc.
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This article has lots of sources and quite decent. Lots of news media wanted answers from the government about the program. The government called the program a hoax. --AlphaBeta135 (talk) 01:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support article is decent, topic is in the news, ticks my boxes. We posted Putin's assassination of some blokes in the UK with poisoned umbrella tips or something and it's not like we waited for him to fly the to the UN and confess. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle. But the blurb needs work. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:07, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article looks good and well-sourced, but more photos could be added to help the casual reader understand the events. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 02:12, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose mainly because it's unproven allegations. Still, the media seems to be very interested, so it's only weak oppose. Banedon (talk) 03:01, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Only because there's nothing yet of an event here. It's a suspicion and there's no event that's tripped. Its clear what the goal is (chance number 2 for impeachment) but we're dealing with yet-proven (though well-backed) claims. Not appropriate for ITN yet. Its similar to the reported claims about the Chinese gov't-directed genocide a few days ago - what actions are taken will be the news point, not that there's a report they exist. --Masem (t) 03:11, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but change "pays Talibans" to something in the singular. The article adequately reflects the degree to which the allegation is disputed, and the news is equally significant if it is true, or if it is proved to have been a hoax. BD2412 T 05:53, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support has definitely been enduring in the news for past few days which lends more support for ITN. And its looks like there is an active investigation by US government officials right now. It looks like "work" is being done quite rapidly to get to the bottom of this. 104.243.98.96 (talk) 06:07, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we don't post "suspicions", wow. This is not a tabloid newspaper. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 06:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb wording per TRM, neutral on blurb itself. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:26, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Shocked this is even being considered. The key word here is "suspect". If this is actually confirmed, maybe it's for the front page, but until then we don't post theories. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 08:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with updated wording. Suggest "intelligence agencies allege Russia operated a bounty program paying Taliban militants to kill coalition soldiers" or similar. This is proving to be highly significant to the Afghan War, Russia-US/UK relations, and the Trump administration. The Times is rolling out new details daily. gobonobo + c 09:10, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose We don't post tin-foil-hat conspiracy theories. I also don't see this as a front-page news in the media here in Europe (including the BBC).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is hardly a tin foil hat conspiracy theory, soldiers who were on the ground found much evidence about this. 331dot (talk) 11:01, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If the Russians have kompromat on Trump, of course he will allow them to pay people to kill American soldiers. 331dot (talk) 11:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The opposite of what Trump does/wants to do is typically the correct course of action in pretty much every scenario, so this specific argument can easily be flipped. Nixinova T C 06:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment AlphaBeta135 Note that "launch" suggests the Russians are commencing the program just now, not that it has been going on for some time as is alleged. 331dot (talk) 12:53, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per Masem, TRM. Suggest close. – Sca (talk) 13:02, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Allegations without genuine proof. Suggest close as well. KittenKlub (talk) 13:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is some support here, no grounds for an early close. 331dot (talk) 13:43, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is also plenty of evidence available. Unless we are waiting for Putin(who still denies there are Russian forces in Ukraine) to confess, there is no impartial international body that will make a determination here. We can only go by what RS report. 331dot (talk) 13:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Intelligence reports are not RS by definition, and "a red scare" isn't to change my mind.KittenKlub (talk) 13:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sources that report on what intelligence reports and soldiers state are RS; I'm not trying to change your mind, but it's factually incorrect to say "without genuine proof". 331dot (talk) 13:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Three supports after you two "suggested closed" I was thinking to mark it ready. Good thing no one unilaterally closed a nom after just 12 hours when it has 7 days to be considered right? Should probably stop doing that altogether. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Decent article and in the news. The nature of these things means there will never be definitive proof one way or the other, but as ever we go with what the sources are saying.-- P-K3 (talk) 14:17, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. The article is quite good. Davey2116 (talk) 15:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support we regularly post news items that are contested or which there is no definite proof. All a matter of wording and appropriate sourcing in the article. Alt blurb I seems to encapsulate that very well, but the other ones are also ok. 2A02:A451:8B2D:1:1D96:7DCA:BC29:BDA7 (talk) 15:03, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem and The Rambling Man. Hrodvarsson (talk) 18:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I'm not seeing anyone besides the unnamed intelligence agencies and officials stating that this program existed; everyone else is attributing it to them, and does not provide any substantiating evidence. As such, it's still substantially an allegation rather than a statement of fact. Moreover, I'm not seeing this making headlines outside the country affected, which, I find, is a useful rule of thumb. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As probably mentioned earlier, this is just professional speculation, nothing more. The in the news section should have more than just speculations and allegations. Dantheanimator (talk) 18:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and snow close per Vanamonde93, and more jingoistic posturing by Hill politicians. We would never post new groundbreaking archaeological findings that are mere "professional speculation" (per Dantheanimator) but lacking in scholarly consensus. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 18:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Why all the demands to close this? There is plenty of support. GreatCaesarsGhost 22:11, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm sure if we had unsubstantiated claims of Russia assassinating people in the UK it would be posted --LaserLegs (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @LaserLegs: I think this annoys people the most so that they might feel inclined to oppose even if that was not their first thought. You stated your vote well and so be it. Others might agree or disagree with you and a smooth flow of discussion will eventually determine whether this gets a chance or not. Suppose someone wants to support this and doesn't do it simply because of disagreement with your attitude to draw comparison from a past story that went a different way, your view on the Skripal's poisoning or your (mis)treatment of news related to the UK in general.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh? So we had no evidence of the poisoning except for statements by unnamed officials? Vanamonde (Talk) 19:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Standard tangential non-sequitur I'm afraid. It was beyond doubt that the Skripal's (and others) were attacked using Russian nerve agents. There's even an excellent three-part dramatisation by the BBC to help you learn some more about it, you probably can't watch it but it's here. And attempting to compare the use of chemical weapons by one sovereign state on another who aren't at war with one another is not quite analogous to mercenary activities in theatres (sorry, theaters) of war, now is it? Deary me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:53, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support -- headline news, and well sourced. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 20:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As it's only a suspicion. JW 1961 Talk 21:13, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose consider the blurb's vague subject and verb - "News media and legislators suspect" or "Intelligence agencies allege". These sort of stories need a definitive subject and verb, like "The CIA confirms" or "The DNI announces" GreatCaesarsGhost 22:11, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support...and now we have "confirmation" from a "senior Afghan official." GreatCaesarsGhost 13:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it is real - there's clearly going to be more to this story than just discovery, and the ITN point would be who's to take blame for not stopping it once it was known... --Masem (t) 13:18, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Can you clarify that? You're saying it's too early to post (I can buy that) but the trigger for when to post would be when? We certainly shouldn't expect the "American" government to confirm. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I do expect that there should be some type of investigative action (in this case, it would likely be another congressional investigation here) to verify. It doesn't necessary need to be the US gov't either if the issue is that severe. All reports right now are from media sources, while they are well established for investigative reports, still lack access to the whole picture, and can't be taken as authoritative. Eg: Woodward and Bernstein revealed the existence of what would become Watergate and should be recognized for that, but the key part of Watergate was the impeachment trial against Nixon. We're at the same point here that the existence of something that points at potentially impeachable or other liable actions within the US government, but only from what the media has reported. A full investigation and followup would be need to affirm how true that was and if wasn't part of the story missing or the like. Again, I point to the Chinese genocide story ITNC below as a comparison: it seems nearly factually complete and just as confirmed, but again, the existence of the genocide as stated by a reliable media source isn't sufficient for an ITN story, its what actions come from that story taken by others that we'd be more interested in posting. Now certainly if this was a driven ongoing story for the US and world news, I might consider that, but even today, coverage of it seems buried, under how Trump generally dismissed intelligence reports throughout his term. --Masem (t) 14:53, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would suggest nominating the article for WP:DYK. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 01:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose- Not sure it's a great precedent to post unconfirmed allegations. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 04:57, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose: A case of 'big if true', however I don't think pure allegations should really be on ITN. The article states that "'officials said there was disagreement among intelligence officials about the strength of the evidence about the suspected Russian plot'", so this doesn't seem to be a conclusive claim. Nixinova T C 06:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I found that a senior Afghan official explained to CBS News that the bounty program is real. See here--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 12:19, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, far from the baseless tabloid speculation that some opposers are characterizing this, we now have a named Afghan bussinessman as a middleman. P-K3 (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also, the controversy keeps growing as part of the U.S. government keeps downplaying this program.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 14:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This does not seem to be going away after a few days. Its still very much ITN.104.243.98.96 (talk) 05:15, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) 2020 Russian constitutional referendum

Article: 2020 Russian constitutional referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: The Russian electorate votes to amend the Russian constitution. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Russian voters pass a constitutional referendum allowing Vladimir Putin to remain president until 2036.
Alternative blurb II: Russian voters vote to endorse changes to the Russian constitution, one of which allows Vladimir Putin to remain president until 2036.
News source(s): [63]
Credits:

Article updated

Banedon (talk) 10:50, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose no context at all, what changes? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:54, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The referendum was not even necessary, the amendments had already been ratified. Copies of the updated constitution were in bookstores before the vote. The result was never in doubt. 331dot (talk) 10:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You make it sound like we don't post elections whose results were never in doubt. Banedon (talk) 11:06, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is a referendum, not an election(most of which are ITNR). The referendum was not even necessary as the amendments had already been officially adopted. The time to post this was that adoption(maybe it was, I don't remember off the top of my head) 331dot (talk) 11:08, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure? Do you have a source that says the amendments had already been adopted prior to the referendum? Banedon (talk) 11:13, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ABC News: "The vote was already largely symbolic, as Russia's parliament had already passed the amendments into law. But the vote allows for the Kremlin to say the changes have a stamp of public legitimacy." 331dot (talk) 11:18, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm skeptical about this since it's not in any of the other sources I've seen, and it's not in the article (or 2020 amendments to the Constitution of Russia) either. Banedon (talk) 11:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BBC. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC quotes an organization as saying "there was no legal need for it". 331dot (talk) 11:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but that isn't the same as saying it's already been implemented. Banedon (talk) 11:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As I noted, they had already published the changes and made them available for sale. 331dot (talk) 11:50, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think sources like this one clearly indicate the changes hadn't already been implemented before the referendum. The "already published" part is probably due to people who see the outcome as a foregone conclusion so they might as well start printing books with it - not unlike how long before Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, the media was already treating him as the nominee. Banedon (talk) 03:53, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC source clearly states Both Russia's houses of parliament have already adopted the changes. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 11:54, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way I oppose alt blurb since it's not known if Putin is intending to stay in power till 2036. Banedon (talk) 11:13, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree he could be theoretically voted out of office, but do you think he would have pushed these changes through if he didn't have such intention? 331dot (talk) 11:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's possible he doesn't run. Plus, are we speculating about Putin's intentions on ITN now? Banedon (talk) 11:25, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it takes speculation to see what his intentions are, but I will stop digressing here. Thank you 331dot (talk) 11:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've propose another altblurb, as most RS agree that extending Putin's term was the primary goal of the changes. 331dot (talk) 11:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Did any of them actually say extending Putin's term was the primary goal, or did they only say it's a possibility? Banedon (talk) 11:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We go by what reliable sources claim, not what the subject says about themselves. According to Putin, there are no Russian forces in Ukraine, and Russia does not interfere with US elections(despite Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections and Russian interference in the 2020 United States elections) Since it seems that the only thing you will accept as evidence is Putin saying his goal is to stay in office, I will stop wasting our time debating it with you. Thanks 331dot (talk) 11:50, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support article is ok, topic is interesting. Similar to the HK law posting "totalitarian regime strengthens hold" the vote was perfunctory. Whether it's poisoning diplomats, seizing peninsulas, or paying bounties on dead soldiers you cannot deny Russia has involved itself in global affairs so what happens there has international implications (not that it matters to an ITN nom but it does highlight the significance) --LaserLegs (talk) 11:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Foregone conclusion, товарищи. – Sca (talk) 13:08, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's been clear for over a decade that Putin will remain in power for life absent a coup. The specific machinations are not noteworthy. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - going to go against the grain here, this is actually important news. Even if a foregone conclusion, I dont think that precludes us from posting it. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 20:45, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Altblurb 2 preferred. This is actually important news. so it is worthly to posted it. forgetting any opposer that tends because no important, not involve US/UK in ITN, etc 180.242.5.183 (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No, we will not be "forgetting any opposer that tends because no important." That's really the whole point of discussing the nom. GreatCaesarsGhost 21:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support any good blurb around the topic. This is former G8 country that just banned same-sex marriage and made it possible for its leader to remain in power for 12 extra years. gobonobo + c 07:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with preference for Alt 1. Fair or not, it's clearly an important development. —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:08, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with a preference for Al 1. The vote outcome was not a surprise, but this constitutional reform still represents a major change in Russia's political system. Nsk92 (talk) 11:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The referendum was not only about allowing Putin to stay in power until 2036. Other provisions were also included, so I suggest Alt Blurb 2. It does not matter now if the result of the referendum was clear even before it was held. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 13:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The extension of Putin's rule as President for Life is notable, the method of which this change was brought about doesn't matter. Support Alt 1. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:40, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting the most basic blurb. Feel free to modify if needed. --Tone 16:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please use ALT1 or ALT2. The basic blurb is essentially devoid of news. starship.paint (talk) 02:29, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    As discussed above, both alts are inaccurate in suggesting the vote "allows" something, but that thing was already allowed. GreatCaesarsGhost 18:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb II Ljgua124 (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Police penetration of EncroChat

Article: EncroChat (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: In a Europe wide operation, police penetrate EncroChat, a top-secret communications system used by criminals to sell drugs and plan attacks. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Multiple police agencies penetrate a top-secret communications system used by criminals to sell drugs and plan attacks called EncroChat in a Europe wide operation.
Alternative blurb II: A top-secret communications system used by criminals to sell drugs and plan attacks known as EncroChat is penetrated by multiple police agencies in a Europe wide operation.
Alternative blurb III: Combined European police agencies crack EncroChat, a high-level criminal chat system, and subsequently arrest over 800 people.
Alternative blurb IV: In a collaborative effort European police agencies infiltrate EncroChat, a high-level criminal chat system, leading to the arrest of over 800 people.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Dantheanimator (talk) 18:40, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle but it needs a better blurb. How about something mentioning nearly 800 people are arrested after European police agencies crack a high-level criminal chat? Anything better than the verbose and empty 'police penetrate a communications system'. But, yes, major event. Kingsif (talk) 21:09, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle per Kingsif but oppose on target quality. Plus, a better blurb, more aligned with their suggestion, is needed, but notable in any case. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but my golly that is a stubby article.John M Wolfson (talkcontribs) 21:15, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another Support in principle way too stubby at present. Blurb per Kingsif suggestion if article is improved JW 1961 Talk 21:21, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would "In a Europe wide operation, multiple police agencies arrest over 800 individuals, intercept over two tonnes of drugs, and seize £54 million in criminal cash following the penetration of the criminal network EncroChat." be a better blurb? Dantheanimator (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait – Stub, one source. Needs expansion, more sources. – Sca (talk) 22:01, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, now that article has been cleaned up per comments. Magnovvig (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment added altblurb 3- to get to the point quickly and impactfully, but not overdo it. Kingsif (talk) 23:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on Alt-blurb 3 but a better blurb would certainly be welcome. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Sourcing – Telegraph, Register, Sky News, Motherboard, Phoneweek – still feels edgy. Suggest drawing on Thursday's AP, Reuters reports. – Sca (talk) 13:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 3. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ) 15:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC) Pulling !vote/comment. 19:23, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Added Alt-blurb 4. It is mostly a rewording of Kingsif's alt-blurb 3. Dantheanimator (talk) 16:57, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opppose we can't post the arrests only convictions, nor can we post "tinfoil hat conspiracies" about unproven suspicions from government agencies. These truisms have both been recently asserted. Perhaps when the trials are concluded, and the suspicions proven in a court, we can revisit. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:39, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Come on, LL, you know the story isn't a person-arrested nor a claim-of-crime, it's the major international event of "Operation Venetic". Kingsif (talk) 19:39, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support to build more consensus per Kingsif and others. Awsomaw (talk) 13:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 02:19, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Fat Clemenza. Leave the Snapchat, bring the cannoli. ——Serial # 03:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – Aside from the absence of convictions, this murky episode is getting quite stale already. – Sca (talk) 21:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 1

Only linked to not break transclusion limit: Portal:Current events/2020 July 1


(Posted) RD: Hugh Downs

Article: Hugh Downs (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WaPo
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American television host dies at age 99. Only a few refs needed. Davey2116 (talk) 18:07, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Hachalu Hundessa assassination and riots

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Hachalu Hundessa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:Following the assassination of singer Hachalu Hundessa, 80 die in protests in Ethiopia. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Following the killing of singer Hachalu Hundessa, 80 die in protests in Ethiopia.
News source(s):Al Jazeera, AP, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Death occurred on 29 June, protests peaking later. Abductive (reasoning) 02:39, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Would support on significance but the article needs major work on early/personal life, prominence, and discography if this article is to hooked. Otherwise a separate article on the protests might be better. Gotitbro (talk) 03:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would probably weakly support RD here. There's no mention of "assassination" in the article, which obviously implies deliberate targeting, just that he was "shot". I fixed the date of death in the nom template. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There's lots of speculation in the Oromo community that there was foul play, but I haven't seen any evidence. Hundessa was something of a modern folk hero to the Oromo people. I've found relatively little in the way of reliable sources in English that address his early life though. gobonobo + c 11:13, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks satisfactory to me. Kingsif (talk) 11:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – Weak because article is thin, but the surprising death toll (AP: 80+) merits a blurb. Fairly wide coverage – Sca (talk) 13:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Sca. I too would like more flesh, but there is enough there to post. GreatCaesarsGhost 16:26, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose then, as there's still nothing to substantiate an "assassination". The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:34, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You're opposing a blurb regarding the death of scores of people because you aren't personally convinced his murder was politically motivated? The AJ article linked above calls it an assassination. The police have called it a "targeted killing" of a politically prominent person. If that's not enough to convince you, propose an alternate blurb! GreatCaesarsGhost 21:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Not at all. I'm opposing because the article linked doesn't say he was "assassinated". That's what I said 12 hours ago, and that's what I'm saying now. And I've already said it's a weak support for RD. So thanks for your invitation, but no thanks. I prefer to work on things I have more knowledge of, and that's good advice for many around here. The Rambling Man(Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure that follows. Alt-2 should be perfectly acceptable to you? Plus "killing" sounds more neutral. —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but suggest that it is re-worded to something like: "80 die in protests in Ethiopia following the killing of singer Hachalu Hundessa"—Brigade Piron (talk) 08:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb but probably not ready The lead needs to be expanded. The blurb should reflect the article which says 200 deaths. Usedtobecool ☎️ 16:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb not Thatcher/Mandela, RD is fine for this and almost every death --LaserLegs (talk) 21:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: David F. Gantt

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: David F. Gantt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Spectrum Local News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Updated and well sourced. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support reads like a CV of someone with an obsession with traffic cameras. But mostly okay. Ditch that inline external link though. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:59, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose said to be notable for membership of New York Assembly, but the only mention of it is his announcement that he's leaving? A well-sourced account of his time on the county legislature isn't enough for me -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 15:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (ec) Oppose it's too bare-bones for me. All the stuff about the traffic cameras has been removed (whether intentionally or not I don't know) so we're left with nothing to tell us about his policies or political beliefs.-- P-K3 (talk) 15:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – per above. Also does not adhere to MOS:LEAD and MOS:OPENPARABIO. A one-sentence lead is insufficient. —Bloom6132 (talk) 17:39, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @Bloom6132: @PaulBetteridge: @Pawnkingthree: Hey I am in the midst of updating this article (I didn't notice that somebody had already posted it for a RD) and I plan to finish either tomorrow or the next day. For anybody else coming across this please hold off any support or oppose comments. Also @TDKR Chicago 101: I have added my name as an updater since right now the authorship of the page is 34% by me and I am not even close to done. - Jon698 talk 04:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
@Stephen: Umm why did you close the nomination when there are still two days left for it to go up? I was going to ping Bloom, PaulBetteridge, and Pawnkingthree about the article today. - Jon698 talk 15:39, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Everton Weekes

Article: Everton Weekes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Legendary West Indies Cricketer. Lead may need some expansion but the article looks to be in generaly decent shape, and for a change is well sourced. Ad Orientem (talk) 20:11, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per nom; article seems comprehensive and well-sourced. It is true that many articles of this length would have a longer lead, but it does convey the key facts at its present, restrained, length. -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 21:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as tagged. Everything else seems fine, just expand the lead appropriately. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:48, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have added to the lead. P-K3 (talk) 22:14, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Georg Ratzinger

Article: Georg Ratzinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well sourced and updated. Pope Emeritus Benedict's older brother --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 11:07, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Mississippi flag change

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article:Flag of Mississippi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb:Mississippi State Legislature passes a bill that mandates the removal of the Confederate Battle Flag from the State flag. (Post)
Alternative blurb:Sections of the Mississippi State Code defining the flag are removed due to controversy regarding the Confederate Battle Flag.
News source(s):AJC, Houston Chronicle
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Just got passed, so article not yet updated. This is what the protests were leading up to, and they may have to back on depending on the reaction to this, but for now this is clearly a blurb. Yeetstuff (t) 08:02, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Purely symbolic change with no international or far-reaching impact. Would we even consider posting a change in the flag of a Canadian province? In my understanding it isn't even the only US state incorporating the Confederate flag. —Brigade Piron (talk) 07:50, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Brigade Piron It's the last state to have the Confederate battle flag in its state flag. Georgia's flag is based on the regular Confederate flag, which is much less known. 331dot (talk) 09:02, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose seriously, would this make the top 1000 news stories of the year from around the globe? Not a chance. But it might be okay for the trivia section? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support in the news, decent article, boxes ticked. This is the last US state to jettison this symbol of tyranny and we have a whole "please do not" above about something only relating to a single country --LaserLegs (talk) 08:47, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see anyone opposing this because it relates to a single country. 331dot (talk) 09:07, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This is indirectly covered by the George Floyd protests posting, as the protests got the ball rolling on this issue. In addition, this only started the process of removing the flag; the old flag will not come back, but it's going to be at least a few months before it is actually replaced, and possibly a year if the first proposed replacement is rejected at the ballot box in November. 331dot (talk) 09:07, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Only in the news because of the George Floyd protests, which is already in the box. When else would major news be made about a change in the legislature about a regional flag - not even the flag changing. Kingsif (talk) 13:10, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I mean, in the US, this is a great news story and good on the state to pass it with little opposition, but end of the day, it's not major world-shaking story; it was a change expected as part of numerous other changes after the Floyd protests. --Masem (t) 14:03, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Symbolically resonant story, and I think there's more international interest than people assume. The BBC has been reporting on Mississippi's flag for years: [64], [65]. This would absolutely be in the news regardless of the George Floyd context. Zagalejo^^^ 14:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose- Just one among many changes in the United States that resulted from George Floyd protests, which are already listed. Bzweebl (talkcontribs) 17:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Changing a national flag might be significant enough to justify publishing in ITN, but a single state isn't. We wouldn't post changes to, say, the Flag of Andalusia, Flag of Bavaria or Flag of New South Wales. All have higher populations than Mississippi. Modest Genius talk 18:55, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.